Oh Lord, stuck in Lodi again.

"are being held on immigration violations."

/least surprising statement of the whole day ...

An ice cream truck driver?

WTF?

1 solomonpanting

Beat me to it...:).

Just about a year ago, I set out on the road,

Seekin' my fame and fortune, lookin' for a pot of gold.

Things got bad, and things got worse, I guess you will know the tune.

Oh ! Lord, Stuck in Lodi again.

I see a bad moon arisin'

Stuck in Lodi

It's the attack of Creedence Clearwater Revival!

For the love of God, STOP! I know all those tunes (sobbing helplessly in corner).

There's no slurpees on my ice cream truck...

I guess he couldn't get the small business loan for the 7-11.

/runs for cover

#5 andthenblammo

"I see a bad moon arisin'"

And, of course, the ultimate mis-heard lyric:

"There's a bathroom on the right."

#7 Rayra.

sonofabitch. It really is going to come down to a wholesale deportation and banishment of Islam from our shores, isn't it.

Yes.

Oh, I'm sorry, was that a rhetorical question?

#8 Swamp Woman

Is your favorite, Born on a Bayou? :)

So Charles, are you a Copland fan too? I just recently bought his three "Collection" multi-CD sets.

I also recently got to see a screening of The City, scored by Copland.

# 9 A

or the gas station ...

/room enough for me in there?

The two were believed to be working to open a religious school in Lodi to teach young Muslims.

Curriculum:

I. Waging Jihad
II. In Case of Capture
a. Claim Torture
b. Koran Abuse, 24/7
c. Profiling--how it can help you
III. Our Allies
a. The press
b. Liberals
c. George Galloway--Idiot, yes, but useful?
IV. What the infidels fear
a. Yelling "racist"
b. Promoting the appearance of intolerance
c. No hate crimes? Create some!

Bad moon risin...

That song always reminds me of George Wallace...I have no idea why.

Too much gooey goodness in this story. The Jihadi ice cream man? "Stuck in Lodi?"

Things got bad, and things got worse, I guess you will know the tune.
Oh Lord...

Anyone who saw Invader Zim had to notice the Ice cream truck's hypnotic call to the children:

"You like ice cream, you like ice cream, you love it, you cannot resist ice cream, to resist is hopeless, your existence is meaningless without ice cream "

#12 RatherDashing

Is your favorite, Born on a Bayou? :)

Yeah, I'm kinda fond of that tune.

I had no idea that driving an ice cream truck was so lucrative that one could use the proceeds to finance a terror camp...

Holy shit, do we have to look at that picture of Hildebeast?

And yes Rayra, that's what it's going to take.

americain--You should run for cover--wrong group...Heh!

/I throw my shoe at the lodi-mullahs

At some point in this country (USA) we will have to come to the realization that islam is not a religion in any sense that the founding fathers meant when they wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Then we will have to get it into the codes that islam has no special protections, and we will have to ban it from the country.

Otherwise, eventually, people like these bozos from Lodi will pull off some mass casualty attack and a many many will die.

I hope we act proactively, and issue a lot of one-way tickets to mecca.

Lodi, Ohio?

Wow . . . terrorism - coming to a small town near you!

# 19 r o b

Mmm, Whahabbi ice cream -- it's Saudilicious ...

/Homer

# 20 W C

Be happy it's only a 1/2 shot ...
:-)

8 SwampWoman

For the love of God, STOP! I know all those tunes (sobbing helplessly in corner).

LOL...Born on the Bayou

#21 Big L

/I throw my shoe at the lodi-mullahs

No, dang, you throw ROCKS at the lodi mullahs; you keep your pointy-toed shit kickers on for stompin' and kickin' purposes.

When I was a teenager (mid '70s), there were a couple of Iranian students who worked as ice cream truck drivers in our neighborhood. One of them was from Qom.

# 23 C

No, in NoCal ...

Lodi, as in KKK Lodi? Interesting.

#21 big L

wrong group

Not in my neck of the SoCal woods

Oh, NoCal.

I was gonna say - white supremasists and islamofascists.

It could happen, politics makes for strange bedfellows.

As I just said in the original Lodi thread:

Geez, I can't find ANY other info about this Lodi al-Qaeda bust outside of the Sac Bee. It hasn't hit any nationwide syndicators yet, like AP or Google. I'll keep searching.

...it begins.

I pray our government handles this seriously, otherwise the people will. I worry about another Beslan. There had better be a death penalty for convicted terrorists on the books.

God Bless the FBI...like how do you scoop a couple of doubledips like this? Like what did they have...midgets asking for ice cream?

But I do agree with Rayra...these pissants are all over the damn place...

#19 religion of bacon

No doubt they were trying figure out how to kill a man with a bunch of popsicle sticks.

Now all ice cream truck drivers will be suspect, especially those selling Big-Stick-O'-Dynamite and VaMullah sandwiches.

No. 35 Gadfly: Hell, there should be a deportation penalty for probable ones.

Speaking not very scary criminals, what was Butters' supervillian name again?

Didn't know Lodi was on the list of Islamic
holy sites. Is the ice cream truck an Islamic
holy site?

Bingo!

Lodi News-Sentinal Exclusive Report

FBI agents descended on a Lodi house next door to the Lodi Muslim Mosque a day after two of Lodi top Muslim leaders were arrested.

Shabbir Ahmed, imam of the Lodi Muslim Mosque, and Mohammad Adil Khan were arrested either late Sunday or early Monday morning, FBI spokesman John Cauthen said.

Neither man was arrested on any criminal charges, said Virginia Kice, a spokeswoman for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the largest investigative arm of the Department of Homeland Security.

"It's unfortunate," Nasim Khan, former mosque president, said after hearing about the arrests. "These are guys who've been doing good work in the community."

Meanwhile today, FBI agents searched Ahmed's house on Poplar Street, next door to the mosque, and another house in the 300 block of Acacia Street, about four blocks from the mosque.

The house on Acacia, just east of Washington Street, has two residences. The family living in the portion of the house closest to the street was not involved in the FBI search.

The family whose residence was searched had just returned from a four-month stay in Pakistan, said Les Kolb, who lives across the street from the Acacia Street house that was being searched.

Zombie I was looking for you earlier today...

It occured to me that the knee jerk pacifism of the Soros crowd these days might come from exposure to those all those "conflict resolution" academics you keep running into as pundits these days. Except for a few from Israel, they always seem completely clueless about real world problems like Islamism or despotic leaders etc.

I was wondering if you have any experience with or understanding of these guys.

"These are guys who've been doing good work in the community."

By "good," does he mean "in preparation for dealing a mighty blow to the infidel in his homeland?"

'Cause that's the way I read it.

#38 Joshua (not a hamster) Scholar

Sad to say, it's been done many times. Sharpen the end of the stick on pavement, a brick, etc., and you've got a weapon that will puncture flesh.

#49 Belize042

It occures to me that the attitude of Muslims is that suicide killers should be left alone before hand because they haven't done anything yet and of course afterwards its too late...

Funny there's no time when it's acceptable for us infidels to protect ourselves.

Article about the mosque with which the Lodi terrorists were connected.

Includes photo of kids praying in the mosque -- or maybe looking for popcicle sticks.

#43 okimutt

Didn't know Lodi was on the list of Islamic

Actually the 38th holiest site is Paterson, New Jersey. I think Lodi is 69th just behind Muleville, Nevada

The family whose residence was searched had just returned from a four-month stay in Pakistan, said Les Kolb

I have to get me a Good Humor truck. Dang !

are they having seminars on how to sell ice cream in pakistan ?

hey kids...get your koranabananapops quick !

#51 Joshua (not a hamster) Scholar

Yes, I think that comes from the same mindset that provides the helpful quotes after some just-released-on-parole sicko kills somebody: "Statistics suggested this behavior was highly unlikely." Oh, okay, but, um, his victim is still dead.

Here's an earlier lovey-dovey article about the Lodi mosque.

The mosque, an inconspicuous building across the street from the Lodi Boys and Girls Club, is the headquarters for Islam for the Lodi area.

[...]

Women aren’t required to participate in Friday prayer at the mosque.

“They have to look after the family, the kids,” Adil said. “They are busy there. They don’t have time. We (men) have the time to come.”

Charming, huh?

Quote from the article linked to in #52:

Women don’t participate in Friday prayer, at least at the mosque.

“At this particular mosque, it’s men only,” said Nasim Khan, no relation to Aman Khan. “We don’t have the facilities to accommodate them.”

Yeah, right.

#55 religion:

We're stepping on each others' toes! Posted the same article, then similar quotes -- at the same time!

#54 Belize042

Lewis Carol had a joke proving that statistics are useful.

Imagine a cat surrounded by 4 dogs.

If the cat knows statistics then he knows that the average animal involved is 4/5ths dog and being an average animal gives him a much better chance of surviving.

Another quote:

Most Muslim adults in Lodi grew up in Pakistan, although about 40 members of the mosque are Palestinian, about 10 are from Yemen and 10 others are from Afghanistan, said Aman Khan.

Innntrerresting...

FYI

New troll here.

Gone now, apparently, but...

#57 zombie

Yeah, parts of those articles are just begging to be quoted, e.g.

In deeply traditional Muslim homes, there is an adage: “Women come out of their houses twice in their lives; Once to be married, and once to be buried.”

[...]

If there is an emergency, and the husband is not home, a traditional woman could be in trouble, Faiz Shah said.

“They don’t even know how to dial 911,” he said. “They would not know how to talk to the operator if they did.”

[...]

“There is no word for dating in our dictionary,” Yasmeen said.

Holy guacamole, check out this gem from the early days of the Web -- an article that's been stuck on a blog since 1998!

Miraculous Fish Has Allah Written On Its Side, Lodi Mosque Imam Confirms

Hyatullah Ahmadi of Lodi, California proudly offered, for the world's admiration, one of Islam's sacred signs from Allah. It was swimming. In a salt water aquarium. It was a fish.

According to Ahmadi, the albino tiger oscar fish had the word "Allah" clearly emblazoned on its right flank. Red letters on white fish flesh. Just imagine. God on a cichlid fish. "Allah" was in Arabic, so evidently the fish was Arabic. I'm guessing it was also Muslim. (This animal husbandry is a tricky science.) Validating this holy manifestation was none other than the president of the Lodi Muslim Mosque, Taj Khan. "It's very, very distinctly written," said Khan. Hard to argue with that, then. Ahmadi has been offered $1,000 for the fish, but will not part with it because it is "a symbol of God's power and omnipresence."

From Allah-Fish to Al-Qaeda in just seven years: Oh, Lodi Mosque, how the mighty have fallen!

Zombie psst. Did ya see #48?

I apologize in advance if you've already heard this question from me before, but no one seems to want to answer it and I'm curious.

What would happen to the "religion" of Islam if the black three-piece meteorite were to suddenly go missing?

/could happen (a basic operational outline was discussed here quite a while ago)

I know what I'll be doing when a 'Beslan' takes place at an American school - do all of you?

I decline to answer that on 5th Amendment grounds, Senator.

Oh whatever-pig-god-I-worship (that's a quote from Mutiny on the Bounty; no worshipping of actual pig-gods was involved), I just discovered one of the greatest sites on the Internet!

Rev up your bookmarkin' fingers:

Miraculous Allah Manifestations

Must be seen to be believed. Brief example:

Miraculous Aubergine (1996 )

The home of Salim and Ruksana Patel, in Bolton, England, has recently been inundated with about 50 visitors a day, coming to see their miraculous Aubergine. Mrs. Patel foresaw the miracle in a dream after she'd bought the Aubergine from their local shop. On slicing the vegetable in half, she saw that the seeds were formed in the Muslim symbol "Ya-Allah", meaning Allah exists.

#65 Joshua (not a hamster) Scholar

Zombie psst. Did ya see #48?

Yeah, but I'm in a Lodi-researchin' frenzy at the moment. Give me a couple minutes.

#66 Killian Bundy

Judaism survived the sacking of the temple and the slaughter of the priests, though it changed.

#63 ploome hineni

That was the tone that I got from those articles -- because America doesn't already have segregated male and female schools, these poor, pious Moose-lims have to go build special facilities, and until those are ready, these women are suffering in illiteracy here in uncaring, unspiritual America.

Plus all the usual, "ooh isn't their religion exotic and special" touristy crap that you always get in one of these articles. Yes, they stick their asses way up in the air, and if they fart during prayers they have to stop their prayer, run to the flagpole, close their eyes and count to ten, and start all over again. Where do I sign up?

Where is Lodi California?

WHy does everyone know about it?

What am I missing?

#72 hermeneutics

"Stuck in Lodi" is an old rock-n-roll song (Credence Clearwater Revival, I think.)

#68 zombie

What, no miraculous messages found in rashes? As in "Yes it says 'Allah' but it also itches like the dickens - do you have any cream for that?"

Stuck in Lodi
Creedence Clearwater Revival

Just about a year ago, I set out on the road,
Seekin’ my fame and fortune, lookin’ for a pot of gold.
Things got bad, and things got worse, I guess you will know the tune.
Oh ! lord, stuck in lodi again.

Rode in on the greyhound, I’ll be walkin’ out if I go.
I was just passin’ through, must be seven months or more.
Ran out of time and money, looks like they took my friends.
Oh ! lord, I’m stuck in lodi again.

The man from the magazine said I was on my way.
Somewhere I lost connections, ran out of songs to play.
I came into town, a one night stand, looks like my plans fell through
Oh ! lord, stuck in lodi again.

Mmmm...
If I only had a dollar, for ev’ry song I’ve sung.
And ev’ry time I’ve had to play while people sat there drunk.
You know, I’d catch the next train back to where I live.
Oh ! lord, I’m stuck in lodi again.
Oh ! lord, I’m stuck in lodi again.

#68 zombie

From that page:

or if you have any other miracles you would like to add please mail me

You heard him -- keep those cards and letters coming in. But remember, don't try anything like "the mold on this tortilla looks like Mohammed," because images of the Prophet are verboten!

I liked his example of "The Space picture" -- he doesn't seem to know that Hubble images are all in artificial color...

I assume the color is correct for some Hubble images?

Or are the wavelenghs not visible anyway?

Thanks, rightasrain. I would never have figured that out!

I'm a pop culture ignoramus.

The "school" that these Al-Qaeda guys had a connection to, the Farooqia Islamic Center, previously invited the notorious anti-Semite Abdul Malik (featured several times on LGF previously, most recently giving a Jew-Hate speech at UC Irvine a couple months back):

The First 2002 Seerah Conference

Spread and publication of the message of Islam has substantial importance in the establishment of Farooqia Islamic Center. In this regard, First Seerah Conference was held on June 22, 2002 in Lodi. The Conference was attended by famous personalities from all over United States and discussed different aspects of the Seerah of Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). One important aspect of this conference was that non-Muslims were invited to listen the lectures. The Mayor of Lodi and people from various churches attended the Conference. Following are the names of the scholars who attended the conference:

·        Imam Siraj Wahaj         &n bsp;       &nbs p;      New York

·        Imam Hafiz Sabir         &n bsp;       &nbs p;      New York

·        Imam Dr. Muhammad Adil Khan         &n bsp;   Lodi

·       Imam Abdul Malik         &n bsp;       &nbs p;      Oakland

Ay caramba!

#76 religion of bacon

The saphire is a cool thing. If I were a Muslim I'd want one... I wouldn't be surprised if the stone cutter was bright enough to figure out just how to cut the stone to make the grain give that effect.

#77 Joshua (not a hamster) Scholar

False color. Details here.

#78 Hermeneutics

Thanks, rightasrain. I would never have figured that out!

I'm a pop culture ignoramus.

You're welcome!

In a written medium, I know that it can get confusing when people suddenly start breaking out into the same "poetry" (without sound, music lyrics are just words here) all over the place. :-)

Considering that these guys were about indoctrinating kids into the Al-Qaeda mindset, one wonders just exactly what is being taught in THIS immersive six-year "course" at the Farooqia Islamic Center.

Ah here's an interactive demonstration of how that picture was made.

Amazing the cat's eye nebula was made from three pictures all taken from very narrow band filters all of them red, but slightly different colors of red.

It never occured to me how much detail could exist in shades of color that our eye can see but can't distinguish.

Can't trust them, wherever they are. It's a cancer that must be eradicated. "Mosque," "islamic school" - it all makes me shudder. Although I'm sure the infestation of jihadis is probably greater here where I live (Bay Area), Lodi's still a little too close for comfort . . .

Ah I missed how they picked those specific colors:

"In this case, light from hydrogen atoms is shown in red, light from oxygen is shown in blue, and light from nitrogen is shown in green."

#48 Joshua (not a hamster) Scholar

Zombie I was looking for you earlier today...

It occured to me that the knee jerk pacifism of the Soros crowd these days might come from exposure to those all those "conflict resolution" academics you keep running into as pundits these days. Except for a few from Israel, they always seem completely clueless about real world problems like Islamism or despotic leaders etc.

I was wondering if you have any experience with or understanding of these guys.

Actually, yes, I've done done a lot of thinking about the knee-jerk pacifism one finds these days. I believe it has to do with (ready for this?) the difference between WWI and WWII.

WWII was a war with an obvious moral component, and obvious villians and good guys. People like you and I live in a mindset completely molded by the experience and the moral lessons of WWII.

But prior to, say, 1938, the prevailing intellectual weltangshauung was dervied from the lessons of WWI, which were quite the opposite: There was no obvious necessity for WWI to have occurred, and there was no moral imperative for one side or the other to have been victorious (at least as could be perceived in the 1919-1938 period), plus there were no obvious good guys or bad guys. It was during the '20s and '30s that the moral-relativist "peace-at-all-costs" philosophy was born, as a reaction to the astounding and needless slaughter of WWI, in which Europe basically lost an entire generation.

This blind pacifism seemed like a good idea at the time -- anything to repeat what had happened 1914-1918. But then we (in retrospect) know the rest of the story; Hitler took advantage of this pacifism and appeasement to promulgate the worst crime of the century, dwarfing even WWI in its horror.

The modern Left is still clinging to the philosophy developed "between the wars," and the thought patterns are exactly the same. They dragged out all the exact same arguments during the Vietnam War, and they're doing it again.

Bottom line is, they just can't accept the moral lessons of WWII, because it entails a sort of societal and personal vigilance that they are not prepared to handle. Because, to be frank, they are cowards.

There -- I've said it.

I coould type a nice PhD thesis about this whole topic, but seeing as this is just a blog post, I'll stop here!

Lodi Muslim Mosque

Like, what other kind of mosque is there? It sure the hell ain't a synagogue (a Jewish syngogue), a church (a Christian church) or a temple (a Buddhist, Hindu or Jewish temple). Why reporters always state the obvious, except when they should.

BTW - Without knowing that Lodi is in CA, NJ or OH, it sounds like it is in Pakistan.

#87 zombie

Interesting. True.

Have you made any observations about those conflict resolution studies or whatever they're calling it? Is it entirely a think tank thing, or are is it a standard (but perhaps empty) department in universities all over the place? Are they entirely devoted to denying reality, or perhaps they just study the wrong problems and assume the it all applies... or or or?

#87 zombie

Also strange how the continent where WWII happened is the place least affected by WWII's lessons.

All my life I've thought that no one, in the US or elsewhere did a great job of trying to understand exactly what the cause of evil is. Not being religious, I'm certainly not satisfied with "Satan" as an answer. But neither am I satisified with the cop out that tries to define evil out of existance.

#87 zombie

Anyway I don't think it's just that we were shaped by WWII.

We're shaped by the modern idea that evil need not be tolerated. I read European blogs these days and read angry European after angry European. They hate us for having the idea that the world can be improved with vigilence. They hate with the desperation of men who's faith is completely failing to explain or to answer the problems the world poses. They know we must be wrong, but they have no answer other than sarcasm...

I should have written "empty sarcasm"

#89 Joshua

Have you made any observations about those conflict resolution studies or whatever they're calling it? Is it entirely a think tank thing, or are is it a standard (but perhaps empty) department in universities all over the place? Are they entirely devoted to denying reality

"Conflict Resolution Studies" is generally just a euphemism for "Moral Relativist Pacifism Hypnosis." Never, in the history of "Conflict Resolution Studies," has any expert or pundit come to this conclusion: "Let's go in there and kick some ass until they cry uncle." Never.

Instead, only one possible conclusion can be reached: "Negotiate a settlement; talk it over with your enemies; listen to their grievances; cave into their demands; but never ever get into a fight."

It may seem merely naive at first, but the Gramscians have seen just how useful such a tool can be to geld the power of capitalism, and as a result "Conflict Resolution Studies" has been taken over by people who recommend this course of non-action as a way to open the gates to the barbarians so that capitalism falls. In their fantasies, a Socialist paradise will arise from the ashes.

Oh, and yes: there are university departments in CRS, as well as "think tanks."

#90 Joshua

All my life I've thought that no one, in the US or elsewhere did a great job of trying to understand exactly what the cause of evil is. Not being religious, I'm certainly not satisfied with "Satan" as an answer. But neither am I satisified with the cop out that tries to define evil out of existance.

Free will.

Is this any relation to the "Hyat" that shot up the LAX counter of El Al Airlines?

He had a company called Five Star Limo at the time.

Sigh... I guess there's no one left here.

I just wanted to say that the more I think about it the more sense Zombie's theory makes.

Coming from a Jewish family I simply saw history differently than others on the left. Though there are still the insane Holocaust denying "Jews" like Chimpsky. I wonder how he missed noticing the difference between holocaust and a sunny day in the park (I think it was the forth of July).

[Tap, tap, tap]

Hello? Is this thing on? ;)

One could hide a very large bomb in an ice cream truck.

You are still here ^_^

"Gramscians?"

I vaguely remember seeing an article or two out of an Israeli think tank with a CRS like name that may not be so fuzzy headed. To be expected since Israelis can't quite pretend Islamists out of existance like all the others absolutely insist on doing... Of course they also have given up on hoping for peace as well.

It may seem merely naive at first, but the Gramscians have seen just how useful such a tool can be to geld the power of capitalism, and as a result "Conflict Resolution Studies" has been taken over by people who recommend this course of non-action as a way to open the gates to the barbarians so that capitalism falls. In their fantasies, a Socialist paradise will arise from the ashes.

I don't know what "Gramscian" means, but I have come the conclusion that Noam Chomsky has, for many years, been very actively attempting to lie to Americans about the dangers of Islamism, probably hoping that Islamist revolutionaries will one day manage to cripple or destroy the capitalist system, but, at very least, wanting to distract our attention away from thwarting them.

That's one thing I keep running into. Dead end communists who project their hopes for communist revolution onto the Islamists who's ideals are exactly the opposite of any sane socialists... But these communists are so desperate to find a violent revolution that they can't allow themselves to see that Islamism will never be anything but a force for oppression.

#98 Beagle

Or a very large ice cream cone!

#100 Josh

Dead end communists who project their hopes for communist revolution onto the Islamists who's ideals are exactly the opposite of any sane socialists... But these communists are so desperate to find a violent revolution that they can't allow themselves to see that Islamism will never be anything but a force for oppression.

Please put that on a billboard where everyone can see it. Thank you.

Hey, boys of: Lodi
You better: Run through the Jungle
Or: Willie and the Poor Boys
Will come: Rollin' down the River
and make last night's : Bad Moon Risin'
Seem like: Suzy Q
You'll wish you were a: Fortunate Son
And when asked: Have you ever seen Rain
You'll roll like the:Midnight Rider
Or you will wonder: Who'll Stop the Rain

(couldn't resist)

Re: 95

No PfP, his name was "Hadayet" and he was an Egyptian, not a Pakistani "moon god cultist".

I can see how that might be confused with the name "Hayat".

I think I found the mother of all Conflict Resolution Studies think tanks:
the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute
[Link: www.sipri.org...]

#102 zombie 6/8/2005 12:00AM PDT

#100 Josh

Dead end communists who project their hopes for communist revolution onto the Islamists who's ideals are exactly the opposite of any sane socialists... But these communists are so desperate to find a violent revolution that they can't allow themselves to see that Islamism will never be anything but a force for oppression.

Please put that on a billboard where everyone can see it. Thank you.

It needs a lot of tightening up before it would make a good tee shirt or bumper sticker. Any ideas?

I'm reading a moonbat report from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.. As I expected they I see no mention of the obvious fact that despotic regimes go to war based on the whim of a single man and nothing else.

No fudging should change this fact: In the case of despotic regimes, the will of the leader is the only factor in creating wars.

I wish I could assume that this is so obvious that they leave it out... But I suspect that denial of reality is part of the mindset. After all writing the truth might make a despot "lose face" and of course "losing face" is one of the factors leading to war...

#100 Joshua(not a hamster)Scholar

Gramscian, is a reference to Italian Marxist Antonio Gramsci.
Where Marx promoted revolution "by any means neccessary", Gramsci advocated overturning society by undermining its intstitutions. Point by point, issue by issue.
Sow disorder in all of society.
The family: You see what they're doing to that
Free market: ditto
Military: also, ditto
on and on

Antonio Gramsci: 1891-1937
Considered to be one the 20th century's most celebrated interpreters of Marx.

#99 Josh
#100 Josh

I don't know what "Gramscian" means

Here is quick primer on Gramscian thought.

With cultural hegemony, Gramsci developed an idea from Marxism into an acute analysis to explain why the "inevitable" revolution of the proletariat predicted by orthodox Marxism had not occurred by the early 20th century. Rather, capitalism seemed even more entrenched than ever. Capitalism, Gramsci suggested, maintained control not just through violence and political and economic coercion, but also ideologically, through a hegemonic culture in which the values of the bourgeoisie became the "common sense" values of all. Thus a consensus culture developed in which people in the working class identified their own good with the good of the bourgeoisie, and helped to maintain the status quo rather than revolting. The working class needed to develop a "counter-hegemonic" culture, said Gramsci, firstly to overthrow the notion that bourgeois values represented "natural" or "normal" values for society, and ultimately to succeed in overthrowing capitalism. ...

This need to create a working-class culture relates to Gramsci's call for a kind of education that could develop working-class intellectuals. His ideas about an education system for this purpose correspond with the notion of critical pedagogy and popular education as theorized and practised in later decades by Paulo Freire in Brazil. For this reason, partisans of adult and popular education as well as of Marxist and political theory consider Gramsci an important voice to this day.

...
His influence is particularly strong in contemporary political science, on the subject of the prevalence of neoliberal thinking among political elites, in the form of Neo-gramscianism...

His critics charge him with fostering a notion of power struggle through ideas that finds a reflection in recent academic controversies such as political correctness. They find the Gramscian approach to ideas, reflected in these controversies, to be in conflict with open-ended, liberal inquiry grounded in the classics of Western culture.

The link is a little academic in its phraseology. In plain English, the popular understanding of "Gramscianism" refers to the following theory:

A Communist revolution can't happen until the cultural values of the populace is changed first, since a middle-class society has no need of a Communist state. Hence, in order to create a society with a radical mindset (a necessary precursor to revolution), Marxist theory must be inculcated to the masses. The two primary means of acheiving this objective are through education and the media. In Gramsci's day Italian media and education were solidly nationalist, so the proposed solution was for Marxists to infiltrate these institutions and, little by little, change the way kids are taught and the populace is informed.

Well, Gramsci's fantasy came true, though it took many more decades than he probably imagined. Following Gramscian theory, Marxists in the US very consciously and deliberately migrated to the media and to education, and sometime around the mid-'70s a tipping point was reached where they held a majority position, and no longer needed to operate in "stealth mode." Now, as we endlessly bemoan here on LGF, our educational system and media are completely saturated with the Marxist manner of viewing history and reality. And the kids of today, and the unenlightenment media consumers, are being brainwashed, and have been for many years.

Problem is, there are plenty of clever people on our side as well who know all about this massive scheme. And it is our goal to reverse the Gramscian onslaught.

The Gramscians won the first battle. But they're going to lose the war.

Okay, Josh.

What zombie said

#108 sedandelivery

You make Gramscians sound like some self-serious version Robert Anton Wilson's joke: The Discordians who undermine society by encoraging absurdity and randomness... Actually I just realized that RAW just ripped off Dada.

#110 zombie

Funny it looks to me like lefties didn't really start to show their colors in the media until the 90's. The same media that is trying to hound Bush out of office was 300% in favor of the cold war. Remember all the complaints and conspiracy theories the far left had about the Contras? Even during the scandal, the NYTimes and the rest wouldn't print them all. But they get mentioned in passing all the time in main stream media these days.

#110 zombie

Odd thing how powerless this supposed hegemony of socialists in the media are.

... Look from my experiences (my step mother is a doctor who's worked in Sask. Canada, California and in Washington) in my experiences, socialized medicine is a good thing and (according to my step mom) the American system is screwed up...

Yet this supposed hegemony of socialists in the media couldn't even get the message out to make coherent case for socialized medicine in the US. Isn't that the most basic of most basic socialist values?

America has cultural and political divides but I don't think that this Gramscian fantasy is quite succeeding as an explanation.

#106 Joshua (not a hamster) Scholar,

It needs a lot of tightening up before it would make a good tee shirt or bumper sticker. Any ideas?

Communists & Islamists... till death do them part.

(Hey, at least I tried.)

Or maybe the sea change in the media came too late for the socialized medicine debate?

All I remember from that were shows on PBS and NPR that misrepresented the Canadian system, and NPR anchors laughing among themselves that Clinton's push for socialized medicine was doomed no matter what the polls said because there is no money pushing for socialized medicine. They just laughed it off and changed the subject.

Nice piece by Hugh Fitzgerald:

A failure of imaginative sympathy, that is a failure to understand how this operates, can be remedied if only, instead of apologists or semi-apologists of Islam, one listens to the "defectors" from Islam as one once would have listened to defectors from the Soviet Union. It is really no different.

When Ibn Warraq and Ali Sina have their private meetings with Bush and Rumsfeld, we will know that we are getting somewhere.

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

#116 PDM

I wonder if there's some way of saying it that would make it clear to the Communists that when they're not the ones shooting the guns, they don't actually have any say in the outcome.

#112 Josh
Sorry. Have to claim dumb on Robert Anton Wilson. Sounds good though.

But an earlier, though less virulent strain of the Gramscians were the Fabians. Promoted by Sydney and Beatrice Webb, as well as H.G.Wells and others, they believed in a piecemeal approach to the implementation of a Utopian Society, Socialist of course.
The name Fabian is a reference to Roman General Quintas Fabius Maximus who harrased Hannibal's army without risking a pitched battle. Sort of like ideological guerilla warfare.
Kind of like the Palis (only not violent).
The palis also avoid a pitched battle. Preferring instead to take advantage of people's good nature, then turning around and , well you know what they do.
In other words they're coming at us from all angles.
Not to be fatalistic, no need for that, because we know, and events have proven that, liberty, defended vigorously, like truth, wins out.

#120 sedandelivery

RAW wrote a very uneven trilogy "the illuminatis trilogy"

I read two of the books from it.

RAW used to work in Playboy's letters dept. Anyway he said that he used to sort the paranoid letters that Playboy got into two categories:
1) Letters that were plausible. Someone says that the Mafia is gunning for him - well maybe the Mafia is gunning for the poor shlep.
2) Letters from scitzos. You know Elvis is an alien from Mars and he's trying to poison my false teeth...

Anyway at least one of the books in the Illuminatis trillogy was written by taking the entire second pile of insane paranoia and attempting to craft a story in which EVERY SINGLE INSANE FANTASY WAS TRUE. It was hillarious.

But as I said the other books aren't as good. One of them I haven't read but the remaining book is a perverse fantasy about psycheldelic orgy (yes sex) with Albert Einstein, Marilyn Monroe and James Joyce. If Eisntein sex is your cup of tea, then this is the book for you.

#119 Joshua (not a hamster) Scholar,

I'm not the sharpest tack in the box, but I'll try again:

Communists ♥ Islamists. --- Islamists ♥ Dead Communists.

#122 PDM

Not the sharpest tack but...pretty damn sharp.

Good point.

Very sharp, PDM! :)

#122 PDM

Things would be simpler if that worked, but I have a suspician that Yassir passed for a socialist revolutionary better than he passed for a heterosexual...

So I guess that doesn't work.

Some day I'll have to figure out how you did that heart HTML.

Joshua, think CSS (cascading style sheets.) :)

Josh,
Nothing against your mom, but she's wrong.
The reason it hasn't worked here is because individual liberty is still strongly part the fabric of America. People recognized socialism for what it was. Inimical to liberty. And despite what label was slapped on the proposals and despite the best and neverending work of the Gramscians and the Fabians, it didn't take. But like every nihilist they keep on coming.
The media was not in favor of the cold war. Far from it. If they had been, Vietnam would have turned out differently. The media was in favor of WWII. They didn't undermine that war. But after Korea, they have sought to undermine every aspect of American foreign policy. Some of them would have just as soon turn over the keys to the Soviets as dare to oppose them. Because they believed that the Soviet Union was the hope for mankind.
Now since the fall of the Soviets, they can't let the Soviets win, but they now try to implement socialism piece by piece, issue by issue. And the move for national health-care was only one aspect af that. Just because Canada and Britian among other nations adopt socialism lite does not make wise.
Suggested reading for a discussion of these issues. F.A. Hayek The Road to Serfdom, or
F.A. Hayek The Fatal Conceit (The errors of Socialism).

I ♥ Björk

(I had to try it)

#127 sedandelivery

But vietnam wasn't exactly the cold war.

As for whether my mom is right - the answer isn't in our heads its out in the real world.

She had the experience with the varous systems, we haven't so we don't rate an opinion on the reality, only on the theory.

Of course I rate an opinion. I'm a human being aren't I? We all rate an opinion. If we didn't, it would make no sense to ask for my vote. It behooves me, and hopefully everyone else, to become educated voters, and therefore I have opinions on various issues. What country are you in?
Vietnam was exactly the cold war.
It was considered to be a war by proxy.
Specifically meant to arrest the spread of Communism. And in that respect, the U.S. won.
Ask the Australians.

#125 Joshua (not a hamster) Scholar,

Well, I gave it a couple of tries, so I guess I'll scratch that bumper sticker project.

I was going to post the code for red hearts, but I see you figured it out already.

No use letting it go to waste, so here it is for anyone interested:

<i style="font:arial, helvetica 12px bold; color:red"> &hearts; </i>
♥

#118 hutchrun

I disagree with Hugh's premise.

I think the war in Iraq is a great idea - when Iraqis are given a taste of the freedom that Islamists deny Muslims they end up fighting the people and the idiology that most oppresses them.

We often hear how the war in Iraq is a great at recruiting terrorists, but we never hear the important truth:
It's recruting anti-Islamists among Iraqis.

There was never a shortage of Islamists - a hundred million here, a hundred million there... but how many armed, fighting democrats were there before Iraq? None.

The more potentially free Muslims there are, the more Muslims will have to fight and kill Islamists. Better we expose all Muslim societies to their own evil - that the only way they'll want to change their societies to wipe it out.

Hugh is just wrong. We don't want Islamists fighing only Infidels - that accomplishes very little. We need Islamists to be fighting their own societies so that those societies will stop creating Islamists.

lets not disparage Lodi.

I come from that area. I can tell you it is not a hotbed of jihadists. Or even Socialists. It is the red part of California. Here is Lodi's

#130 sedandelivery

what does Australia have to do with Vietnam?

for some reason or other my post was truncated.
I was going to link Lodi's congressman from the 11th district, Richard Pombo.

#136 Rayra

Whatever. I'm sure whatever you read about about communism is more convincing than what my step mom says about 30 years of clinical experience in hospitals and private practice.

In fact I think I'll call my mom and tell her she's an idiot a liar and a damn communst, not.

...
There is a real world out there. And reality doesn't match theory out there surprisingly often.

Because, left unattended, communism would have had an easy run from Souhteast Asia, to the South Pacific. And Australia was a definite target. They spent so much on the Vietnam war that the cost for further expansion was just too costly.
No, this is not that widely a discussed aspect of the Vietnam war, but I have seen the idea put forth by credible sources from both Australia and the U.S.

#132 Joshua;

While you have a point, I must say that what`s happening in Iraq is more like what happened during the `emergency` in Malaysia after WW2 when the commies (freedom fighters against the Japs) put on a struggle to rid themselves off the Brit yoke. Took about 20 years.

In Iraq seems it`s more of the `old` military complex (read Baathists) trying to get into a bargaining position.

But Hugh does have a point too in that there has been too much administration appeasement going on.

I would agree that the ideal is to make muslims fight it out amongst themselves. By all means arm the mossies, but they should also be pit against each other. It may sound callous but that is the best way to handle them.

I was confused for a moment: Lodi is also a city in northern Italy, near Milan.

#137Josh
"...reality does not match theory..."
Exactly. Now tell that to all the theorists in academia.
Socialism is theory.
Reality is socialism experienced and found wanting.
Liberty is the solution, not theory.
Events have proven this to be true.
Maybe you should stop aking us and ask some Cambodians about reality.
Oh wait, there are less of them to ask, since the Khmer Rouge (red Khmeris), putting their theory into practice, killed 3 million of their fellow countrymen in a period of about three and a half years.
120 million innocents dead at the hands of communists in the 20th century. That's not theory. Thats reality.
More to the point, that is reality having been made to fit socialist theory.

139 hutchrun

Uhm, you don't have me.

Ultimately the goal isn't "pit them against each other" but liberal "separation of church and state" democracy. If they have that then the danger from Islam will (hopefully) be reduced to be small.

Anyway I read the situation in Iraq differently than you do.

Yes there are Bathists, but their strength owes (in my opinion) from Sadams pampered clan, who want what has slipped from their hands forever, the ability to exploit the Shiites and Kurds.

But I'd guess that most of the terrorism comes from Saudi, Syrian, Iranian and Islamist proxies. It comes from those who want to crush the idea of functional democracy because it threatens their power and their strangle hold over their victims.

I wasn't clear...

I think hutchrun sounded like he's happy as long as Sunnis and Shiites are slaughtering each other.

What I want (as far as internal conflict) to see is Shiites fighting their own fanatics so they'll stop educating their own children to believe fanatical shit, and I want to see Sunnis fighting their own terrorists so that they come to hate terrorists instead of calling them role models (shahids).

I also think that a society that gives the population complete control over its own destiny (not special powers for mullahs), is likely to end most of the support for Jihad. Of course I might be wrong...

#141 sedandelivery

If you're claiming that socialized medicine is a failure by equating the system in Saskatchewan to the Cambodian killing fields then you're just the right wing mirror image of Noam Chomsky. Ie so full of **it that its coming out your ears and running down your cheeks.

The Baathists, and by extension the Sunnis (not just Saddam`s pampered clan), are the ones who are at great distress over the loss of the power. Greatest opposition to the Iraq war was by the Sunni countries.
The only other Shiite power are the Iranians (who in any case do not have much love for Arabs-they consider themselves Persians and distinct).

Now as for the generally `perceived`-
liberal "separation of church and state" democracy. If they have that then the danger from Islam will (hopefully) be reduced to be small.

That I`m afraid is not possible in Islamic teachings, quran, hadith etc etc etc. If there has to be any `reformation` then the truth of their teachings must be said out loud and clear. Not by calling it a `religion of peace`.

A good eg is this by the Deputy Prime Minister of the shining light of moderate islamic countries (malaysia):

`Dato' Seri Najib kicked the ball first to insist none should openly debate if Muslims could slander the followers of other religions`

#143 Joshua:

`What I want (as far as internal conflict) to see is Shiites fighting their own fanatics so they'll stop educating their own children to believe fanatical shit, and I want to see Sunnis fighting their own terrorists so that they come to hate terrorists instead of calling them role models (shahids).`

In any other society I might be willing to give it a chance. But definitely not with muslims. Even in Europe and the US there are problems which are sure pointers as to how the muslim mind works.

`I also think that a society that gives the population complete control over its own destiny (not special powers for mullahs), is likely to end most of the support for Jihad. Of course I might be wrong...`

That again is a problem. The mullahs are the word of Koran and in muslim societies the mullah carries the clout-even when the other leaders are elected.

Ha Ha. Actually i think i`d be happy if the mossies just went after each other denominations aside. Hey the more the merrier I say. They need one big bang then they cool down-for the next round.

145 hutchrun

"That [liberal democracy, rule of law, no man above the law, separation of church and state etc.] I`m afraid is not possible in Islamic teachings, quran, hadith etc etc etc."

Well exactly. That's why the country is full of foriegners killing at random and poisoning Islam's well in Iraq.

So when the public demands what the rest of the world (or half of it at least) has, they have to completely change their relationship to Islam (or else canny Islamic leaders have to preemtively alter Islam).

I prefer the former to the latter but in fact both are happening in Iraq.

The worse alternative is happening too - that Iraqis are settling for less than rule of law and surrendering some soveriegnty to ignorant thugs like Sadr.

#147 Joshua:
`Iraqis are settling for less than rule of law and surrendering some soveriegnty to ignorant thugs like Sadr.`

I don`t see Sadr so much as a thug. After all he`s doing everything in line with quranic teachings. How different is he from this:

`Non-Malays living in the vicinity of mosques in Kuala Lumpur hear this call to arms against the non-Muslims through high-pitches megaphones often enough`
[Link: mggpillai.com...]

It`s the same all over the muslim world.

#144 Josh Calm down. No need for ad hominem slash. It was you who made the connection, "whatever you read about communism and what my step mom says about 30 years of clinical experience in hospitals and private practice". Then you said that "There is a real world out there. And reality does not match theory out there surprisingly often". As if American liberty is just some cockeyed theory.
The conversation began by talking about Gramscians. And you dismissed the idea that They have much influence. I guess your feeling a proprietary interest in protecting your corner of the socialist world. So you resort to showing me your fangs. Thats what soclialists do.
Canada's system of socialized medicine is not full-blown communism and I never said it was.
It is more a result of Democrat Socialist, or Social Democrat tendencies of the people who make up the Canadian gov't. I'm saying that your gov't by so doing has taken steps that disregard liberty and that creates distortions within the sysytem. I guess maybe the Gramscians were more successful in Canada. And we see it demonstrated in the outright hostility expressed towards this country by people in Canada, both in gov't and without. Thus your above response.

146 hutchrun

So you're sorry that the terrorist are failing to incite a civil war?
..

You know I heard some idiot on "The News Hour" the other day talk about how Iraqis seem to be lacking a sense of civic duty and a sense of unity as a nation. This isn't why I call her an idiot. Wait for it. She blamed this on America.

OOOH what a fool. Muslims have NEVER had a modern sense of civic belonging. NEVER. That's half the problem - hell most miss the obvious truth of having a common humanity with the rest of us. These most modern of ideas, are the sort of memes that could rip a fatal hole through Islamism's chest.

#150 Joshua:

`So you're sorry that the terrorist are failing to incite a civil war?`

I`m not sorry. I already see a civil war going on. I might go so far as to call it a culling and egg on mossie faces.

Muslims do not have a sense of the generally accepted view of `civic`. The muslim belongs to the Ummah. The Brotherhood. And Islam is paramount.
I do not shed tears for the mossies who get blown up. `Cos their good book says they`ll go to heaven-even if done in by their own people.

#148 hutchrun

Well exactly. There is no difference between many mullahs and the basest, most ignorant of small thugs.

I remember an Iraqi doctor talking about how the local religious leader/thug was shaking down the hospital for its medicines and then selling them on the black market in Iran. He didn't care that he was killing Iraqis - he was just a small time criminal surrounded by follower thugs.

They ARE obviously criminals much of the time. That's one of the factors on our side - the public won't put up with these criminal 'religious leaders' if they start to believe that they have a chance to get rid of them'.

That's probably on reason that mid easterners have supported horrible thugs like Saddam, because the only force they could imagine holding the religious thugs in line was a secular thug.

Well I have to admit it's a wierd system that I don't like at all...

Apparently Shiites are supposed to figure out who the holiest leader is, and then follow his word as law...

That really sucks. Obvously lots of small time thugs will manage to pass themselves off as "holy men" to the dumbest idiots in society and use that to create an army of idiots.

Then the more plausible learned men (like sistani) will be able to be real leaders. And yes, above the law.

I just hope the Iraqis eventually stuff this system.

#149 sedandelivery

I brought up socialized medicine to point out that the supposedly socialist media did NOT try really to sell us socialized medicine when Clinton wanted it thus poking a hole in that Gramscian theory.

As for the rest, I grew up in Sask.. I don't think Saskatchewanians lack freedom just because they pay for medicine differently than Americans do. American liberty smiberty... Gobltygook.

In resurgent Islam the liberal West has met its fate. Islam is a non-Western religion set on conquering and converting non-Muslims, while liberalism is a Western ideology set on tolerating and including non-Westerners. They are predators, we are prey. This complementarity spells the death of the West, unless there is a radical awakening on our part to the true nature of Islam and a willingness to oppose it.

But there's a further twist to this complementarity that makes it even harder for us to extricate ourselves from the dhimmi-like trap in which our own ideology has placed us.

As I said, Muslims seek to turn the whole human race into Muslims. We are the demonic and tempting Other, whom they must subvert and convert, and against whom any deception or double standard that may be used to accomplish those ends is sanctioned by God. But liberal Westerners and particularly liberal Americans (which, when we understand the word "liberal" correctly, means basically all Americans, including most conservatives) remain for the most part indefeasibly naïve about the nature and goals of Islam. We imagine that the Muslims—except for a "tiny minority" of extremists—are more-or-less similar to ourselves, citizens-in-making of a democratic world order. Just as the Muslims' hard-boiled view of us as the infidel Other stems from their very being and faith as Muslims, liberal Americans' naïve view of the Muslims as people "just like us" stems from our very being and faith as liberal Americans. Being a liberal American means being non-judgmental of other cultures and civilizations, seeing other people as individuals, and putting group differences into the background.

[Link: www.frontpagemagazine.com...]

Writes Wheeler: "So cross your fingers he takes the movie and the message to heart. The day the president of the United States announces that Muslims owe an apology to us and not the other way around will be the day we truly begin to win this war."

[Link: www.wnd.com...]

#155 hutchrun

"the liberal West has met its fate"

More likely we will all continue according to our natures. America has found a new danger to contain and France has found someone else to surrender to. In other words nothing has changed, God is in his heaven and all is right with the world.

His training included explosives and weapons instruction and using photographs of President Bush as targets

Which puts me in mind of the sobs that had the t shirt with kill bush on it. So,those idiots have been sending a message that its ok to talk about murdering the president. Now, here we are...whats different about that part of the story...? These anti americans blooming idiots that they are better get on board..

What would we do if a terror attack was carried out here by Pakis?

Bomb Islamabad? Pakistan has been a pretty solid ally in many ways in the war on terror. It would be quite the conundrum for the administration.

Hence, it would be brilliant for the jihadis/A.Q. to use nationals from our "allies" to carry out the attacks.

They would never use Iranians, b/c we already have a causus belli against them.

I would say compromise and just bomb Karachi and Peshawar.

Into oblivion.

I admit to being flip, but I couldn't resist.

But luckily our newest enemy is the dumbest enemy we've ever faced. Every attack will strengthen our resolve - they're just not smart enough to harm America both physically AND politically. The only possibility that we'll lose our resolve is if they forget to attack us for a generation and they're just not smart enough to write off America.

#158 southernborn

Interesting to imagine what would happen if some Islamist DID succeed in killing the President.

what is Lodi?

A town in CA
and a CCR song, stuck in Lodi again

ah. Thanks Babba Zee.

Teaching hate and wanting to murder President George W. Bush. Who else does that remind us of?

An interesting additional detail from the CNN story on the arrest:

"In the days following the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Khan condemned the attacks, Farrow said. Several months later, Khan joined the leaders of local Christian churches and a synagogue to issue a Declaration of Peace condemning terrorism and stressing the common origins of each religion, Farrow said."

So they're getting good at lying, eh? I talk about this at Gates of Vienna this morning.

Free Speech Is Only For über-Libs
;-)

Good Morning Your Amazioness. Where is the rest of the Queen's court?

OT

Anyone hear anything about terrorism arrests at a southern California mosque this morning?

UFO TOFU

No, I haven't, but I am in awe of your palendromic nick!

His training included explosives and weapons instruction and using photographs of President Bush as targets, court documents indicate.

Well, at least they weren't training to flush them down toilets...

#167 Babba Zee

-

It's sad but true.
:-D

Went out to get my paper this AM and see that this article is above the fold front page of the Sacramento Bee, bigger even than the arraignment of the SacPD cop that killed a local boy in a DUI hit and run.

"The two were believed to be working to open a religious school in Lodi to teach young Muslims."

Teaching young muslims to what I wonder.

A detailed article is at
http://www.modbee.com/local/story/10642811p-114287 42c.html.

The plane stopped in South Korea en route to San Francisco. Shortly after it took off, authorities learned Hayat was on the plane and that he was on the federal "no-fly" list, said the affidavit from FBI Special Agent Pedro Tenoch Aguilar.

The plane was diverted to Tokyo, where an FBI agent questioned Hayat, then decided to downgrade his status from the no-fly list and allow him to enter the United States.

Also:

Two other Lodi men have been detained for questioning, residents said Tuesday. The men were identified by a source as Muhammed Adil Khan and Shabbir Ahmed, and they are being held on immigration violations at an undisclosed location.

The two are believed to be working to open a religious school in Lodi to teach young Muslims. They were detained after they met separately with Umer Hayat in the predawn hours Saturday.

Umer Hayat wore a concealed FBI listening device for the meetings, a source said.

Lodi, were they working with Tony's mob?

OMG, what is this world coming to when an ice cream truck driver is in Al Qaeda? Does it say what brand he drives for? I'm be sure not to buy that one.

"I'll" be sure not to buy that one.

I'm flustered about someone messing with ice cream.

Saw this on my local news this morning. 45 miles from my home. And right on major freeway interchanges (12 and 5).

Maybe NOW the Northern California liberals will listen.

(Yeah, and maybe there'll be a Ferrari in my driveway when I get home).

#8 Swamp Woman

I just bought the Creedence box set...I'm hopelessly immersed at the moment. I worry for my mental health.

Yeah, and maybe there'll be a Ferrari in my driveway when I get home).

Hey! It could happen!

Love the Pakistani family values...

The cousin said Hayat's most recent trip to Pakistan had nothing to do with terrorism.

Rather, she said, he went with his mother to arrange some marriages and visit relatives.

Lodi Pair Held

Press conference coming up with Police from Lodi on FOX News. 11:30 AM EST.

Wrong, it was a Muslim "leader" saying that, "Vee have not broken any American laws." Yea, right, and I'm Donald Trump.

Late to the discussion, and gotta run again, but I find this personally very ironic. One of the loveliest couples I know, both physicians originally from Kashmir, live in Lodi. I have alluded to them many times on this blog when talking about the few moderate muslims I have known. The husband, shortly after 9/11, talked about being profiled and stated that he was grateful, not resentful, about the extra security and said that it made sense to him.

The wife has been very instrumental in setting up a student-run medical clinic for another mosque in the area, and has been publicly lauded for doing so.

Now I can't help but wonder about their connections...

Took the FBI long enough to break up this Lodi cell. The other members have been proclaiming their love of death and killing since the 1980s.

Nice, but different Lodi. I grew up near that Lodi. I worked 2 years ago in and near the current Lodi under discussion.

I guess I truly have been "stuck in Lodi again."

Are these the Californeans? Is Lodi in Cali?

#3 Americain:

An ice cream truck driver?

Not-so Nice Dreams?

From an LA Times article:

Hayat is the oldest of four children and was born in Lodi, according to the cousin. He went to Pakistan at the age of 9 "to memorize the holy Koran," she said.

Nope, nothing suspicious in that!

Here's the FBI affadavit in PDF...

Hayat affadavit

#191 Brenda

Good work. Inciteful reading, eh ?

Training in Weapons, Interior room tactics, Explosives, Rhetoric in United States the enemy, Hand to hand combat, and PT.

Putting pictures of High Profile U.S. political figures on weapons targets ..

My favorite line from their website:

Allah, the Greatest, eased the issuance of Federal Tax ID for Farooqia Islamic Center. With the efforts of Haji Ahsan Khan, Secretary of the Center, the letter was issued in a very short time. Farooqia Islamic Center is a non-profit registered organization now under Internal Revenue Service Section 501 (c) 3. The Federal ID number for the Center is DLN 602164085 and the employer identification number is 91-2108397.

Damn shame. I would rather think of Lodi, California as a place of fine wines. Some context would be appreciated as there is also a Lodi, New Jersey.

When the rest of California was crossing their fingers, hoping that the blackouts wouldn't roll their way, Lodi was the one communitee with it's own municipally owned power plant. They had built or bought it as a precaution against the dabblings of the legislature into energy deregulation.
So when the likes of Solinas and Los Angeles were going dark, Lodi residents never had their power interupted.
Boy did the Democrats in assembly howl. You would think that Lodi having their own cheep power source, was taking money out of the California legislature's pocket. But Enron shredded the documents, so can't prove it.

I'm not at all surprised that something like this happened, just that it was in Lodi.. sheesh. I need a good design for a pig-blood launcher, there's a mosque less than 1/2 mile from me. Lodi ain't all that far from me, either.. less than 2 hrs via road.

C

I hope someone's reading this because I could use advice about a related matter.

Last Sunday a moslem gentleman at my "store" told me that if he wasn't satisfied with my "product" he would come back to my "store" and (quote) "blow it up".

I said "you'll do what?", but he just scowled and did not repeat the threat.

It's related to this matter because the moslem gentleman in question had a CA ID. (The "product" I sold him required ID). Mind you, CA is thousands of miles from here.

Before this news broke I just thought he was spouting off, or trying to trip my trigger so he could scream discrimination to my parent company---then it's bye-bye Dan Gummitt! But since this news broke it's really been bothering me.

I assiduously copied his name, address, and even his CA ID number, so forwarding this info to authorities would be a mouse clock away. I am educated enough to know a moslem name when I see one.

Advice anyone? My job is precious to me, but so is the USA.

#199 Dan Gummitt

[Link: tips.fbi.gov...]

Thank You. Hope I'm just being paronoid.