Thanks for that info, been trying to find a good, consolidated list of links to relief organizations.

Gov of LA has called for everyone out of New Orleans. A little late, don't you think? The time for the evacuation should have been on Saturday before the storm hit, not less than 24 hours before it came ashore?

On more pressing issues:

The Army Corps of Engineers said it planned to use heavy-duty Chinook helicopters to drop 3,000-pound sandbags Wednesday into the 500-foot gap in the failed floodwall. But the agency said it was having trouble getting the sandbags and dozens of 15-foot highway barriers to the site because the city's waterways were blocked by loose barges, boats and large debris.

That's not good any way you look at it.

We are looking at 12 to 16 weeks before people can come in," Mayor Ray Nagin said on ABC's "Good Morning America, "and the other issue that's concerning me is we have dead bodies in the water. At some point in time the dead bodies are going to start to create a serious disease issue."

And this is even worse. 3-4 months before people can return to the city?

Let me highly recommend Mennonite Disaster Services. As Charles noted, we Mennonites have always been very efficient. MDS often ranks among the top few charities in the world in terms of efficiency.

Michelle Malkin offers links for Getting Things Done

FEMA's list is important as they will be early aiders. THese are the people FEMA will send to the worst hit areas (for the most part)

Charles - thanks for the list.

ronaldusmagnus endorses Samaritan's Purse - highly skilled in disaster relief, moblilization, massive shelter, medical and feeding programs, etc. They have a worldwide reach and are headquartered in North Carolina.

Be generous.

When Keywords Attack...

maybe CNN.com needs to rethink its ad placement strategy... not sure how many takers on the $30 rooms in New Orleans. However, the Gulfport relocation service might be valuable to some people eventually...whenever they get electricity to actually get on the Internet..

sdg

Thanks for that info, been trying to find a good, consolidated list of links to relief organizations.

Yes, all will need a ton of money, but I'll probably spread my donations over several. [Dave suddenly realizes he may have to skip the state fair and road trip to the parents...money best spent elsewhere].

You know, I am happy to see the Humane Society on there. Of course people come first, but there must be 10's of thousands of animals out in the water logged areas right now.

Is Jane Fonda's "Peace Bus Tour" going to head over to NO and pick some people up?

Doubt it!

Sorry, OT
Paging Iron Fist.
If you are logged on LGF, please contact me. Thanks.

I vividly remember the Mennonite's response during the 93 mid-west floods. I echo Charles' and Lotharbots' comments. They are truly one of the most efficient groups I have seen for putting things back together.

Oh, by the way Northcom is heading the military efforts.

Fort Hood in Texas
Fort Patrick In FLorada
Fort Moody in Georgia
Norfork Naval Base
Baltimore Naval Station (?)

Are involved.

THe staging bases are:
Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala.; Naval Air Station Meridian, Miss.; Barksdale Air Force Base, La.; Alexandria, La.; and Fort Polk, La.. Go to their websites to see what you might do (please, please don't call)

Bayou_King or anyone who knows him. Get him to email me the street address of the bank. I can't send the wrire transfer without that information for my bank. Waiting...

The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America has a donation web page at [Link: www.goarch.org...] .

How long until the ACLU complains that all the religious organizations are helping the effort?

Don't know if they've thought of this yet, but what with most roads gone or impassable, is it possible to get an airlift of some kind going, using military choppers?

Northcom's early response:

Northcom

Helicopters already involved.

Just as a reminder and addition to Charles' admirable list, the lizard-funded effort to relieve one hospital, spearheaded by "Bayou_King", is still moving forward, and we hope to be hearing more news and requirements in the next few hours. Keep your credit cards at the ready.

Mike C. Each time you post this, and its is worth posting a lot, gives links and such to make giving easy.

BTW, if you want to see something amazing, consider that the IRS has already issued guidance on tax relief for areas declared presidential disaster areas. I believe that the declarations were made before the hurricane hit, and the IRS has more information on its site. The state tax authorities are issuing similar statements.

I know its a little thing, but businesses in affected areas will benefit from the declarations. It's one less thing to worry about in the interim as the businesses and people try to get their lives and businesses in order.

Good News/Bad News

Bayou King has 4k already... it was 1.6 k when I went to bed last night.

LGF amazes me.

don't even get me started on 'Nam Grunt's efforts with his 2 dozen vets going by boat to save people.

(let's hope they don't get involved in the shootings... as rescuers have reported being in shootouts with the people they're rescuing.)

Charles and the lizard minions:

A little tech question. Would someone with the time and effort be able to blogroll all the charities and efforts involved so that you don't have to cut and paste anything more than a single line of code? That way whoever manages the list can simply add to the list and it gets automatically distributed to everyone who has the codes.

TIA

# 19 david e

I'm sorry - I don't have a handy list of the links. They're scattered through the Katrina threads over the last day or so. I'm waiting for an e-mail or phone call from Bayou_King myself. But that's an excellent suggestion, so if anyone else has them handy, this sure would be a good time to post them.

#9

Is Jane Fonda's "Peace Bus Tour" going to head over to NO and pick some people up?

Oh, give it a rest. Given the present state of things, it doesn't seem likely that Jane's bus could even get near a place to pick people up.

I'd be surprised if Jane and other rich liberals weren't making significant contributions to relief efforts.

Bottom line, though, neither of us knows what she or others acting as individuals are doing. There'll be plenty of time to be snarky later.

(Posted this on the wrong thread -- should be here)

I just talked to a neighbor who has family that fled New Orleans staying with her. The neighborhood is organizing meals to take over there, so the hostess is not overwhelmed.

Our local school has announced that any refugees in the area can enroll their children. My neighbors neice and nephew can go to school -- the daughter is even going to today's girl scout meeting with my daughter.

The Hampton Inn across the street from the school is full of refugees -- so they can just walk their kids across the street and structure some semblance of normalcy for the next 3 months.

Every little bit helps.

OT

Livingstone may lose job over remarks

KEN Livingstone, the mayor of London, could be forced out of office for allegedly anti-Semitic remarks he made to a Jewish reporter earlier this year.

It was revealed last night that the Standards Board for England, a watchdog overseeing elected councillors and the Greater London Authority (GLA), has decided that Mr Livingstone should face a public disciplinary hearing and punishment for failing to "respect" the journalist.

Among the punishments available is a ban from all forms of public office for up to five years - which would force the mayor to resign his job.

#24

You are correct- upon further reflection I withdraw my snarky comment. Good luck to all those affected by the Hurricane.

Hey, how come there are no islamic charities in that list?

#27

Very gracious of you. Thanks.

krager as annoying as he is, give him enough rope and he'll hang himself. they never see it coming.

#2 lawhawk

New Orleans was under a mandatory evacuation order on Saturday and Sunday; some people did not have the means (economic or otherwise) to leave the city.

President Bush also declared a state of emergency for Louisiana and Mississippi on Sunday before it hit.

OT did you guys know that just after the hurricane hitted Miami most CITGO raised their price .25 Please don't put money into Chavez's pocket

#23 Mike C.
Please contact me ASAP
genmacpherson at yahoo dot com
or turn your nic blue.

30 Rayra

That's the kind of "out of the box" thinking that's needed. However, some practical questions would be:

1. How do you get them there?
2. How deep can they go?
3. How do you safely escape from one ('copter?)
4. Etc.

I hope the engineers are thinking that far out of the box, though.

The word has gone out the buses will be coming to the Superdome to take people to the Astrodome. So the people have started trudging thru the water to get to this point. Fox has someone there with a camera and sat truck. This is going to be a very, very visual, dramatic picture in the coming hours.

36 David2

That's going to be quite a caravan. If you can fit 60 people on a bus, that's 1000 trips.

#30 Rayra

M60's weigh about 58 tons, actually.

/snark

(heh armor from way back)

I've added links at my blog where Canadians can donate:

[Link: www.damianpenny.com...]

#32 kf:

Ah, I believe that you're confusing mandatory and voluntary evacuation orders from NO.
The mandatory evacuation notice came about 24 hours after Mayor Negrin first called for a voluntary evacuation. The voluntary evacuation notice was declared on Saturday and superseded by the mandatory notice Sunday morning. That delay was inexcusable and should have been mandatory from the get-go.

This storm was showing hurricane force winds 200 miles from the core. It was huge and the expected storm surge was going to hit a wide area.

Emergency management folks in LA say the water has equalized in NO and they can start working on plugging the breech.

At least there's no more water going into the city.

I guess that counts for good news on a day like this.

#40 Rayra

Good catch, Rayra. And I'll read snarky comments about Hanoi Jane anytime.

If anyone knows an approved way for someone not in Mississippi to find out if their Mississippi relatives are okay, send me an e-mail through the board.

(My boss has family there and hasn't heard from them; phones are out.)

United Jewish Communities Has Katrina Relief Fund (UJC)

To donate securely online please scroll down, fill in the form below and click on "pay by credit card." To donate by check, please make the check out to UJC Disaster Relief Fund and clearly mark Hurricane Katrina on the bottom of the check. The check should be sent to: United Jewish Communities

Federations in the storm region have asked that donations not be sent to them directly as they are unprepared to handle these efforts.

CVS Pharmacy Says CVS Displaced Residents Can Get Meds Filled ANYWHERE (CVS Press Release)

guys, i'm running as fast as i can to keep up.

sorry for no updates.

am in the thick of securing generators, trucks, coordinating supplies coming in from dallas,
am just swamped. i think i may have to set up in my uncle's.

i have been having to beat PayPal with sticks for over an hour and threatened to go to the media if they kept holding up the money. they have now released it. now trying to tie up things with my bank.

that shouldn't be a problem, because my aunt is on the board of directors. now if i could only get a call through the busy circuits...

was out on the road at 4a.m. getting a chainsaw, and 75% of the vehicles i saw ... quite a few, were battered pick-up trucks, towing boats, steered by old Cajuns smoking cigarettes.

unbelievable.

HELP IS ON THE WAY

45 Rayra

Per the other thread, Nam got turned back by the highway patrol. No one is going into NO due to anarchy. He's back in Orange. I left a few choice words on the other thread regarding the anarchy.

re: m60's as improvised dams

Maybe M88's (tank towers) would be better; they can be modded to go into about 8ft of water (tanks only go about 6'). And they have a big-ass boom on the front that can carry about 30 tons of sandbags in front. Drive 'em up, drop the sand bags, repeat.

#37

It's a caravan of 470 buses from NO to Houston.

Astrodome has it's scheduled cleared through December. Looks like they are finally realizing that no one is going home for several months.

50 Bayou_King

Read Nam's post on open thread #5. You may not be able to get through. You need to talk to your state patrol before you go.

#50 Bayou

was out on the road at 4a.m. getting a chainsaw, and 75% of the vehicles i saw ... quite a few, were battered pick-up trucks, towing boats, steered by old Cajuns smoking cigarettes.

I wish I could have seen that.

#50 Bayou_King

was out on the road at 4a.m. getting a chainsaw, and 75% of the vehicles i saw ... quite a few, were battered pick-up trucks, towing boats, steered by old Cajuns smoking cigarettes. Unbelieveable

But not surprising. Judging from the year I lived on the Gulf Coast, except for those who actually live in New Orleans, the "Locals" are some of the most caring, helpful, people out there.

# 34 American Soldier

Damnit ! I can't get your e-mail to go through ! Drop me an e-mail, please.

#50 Bayou

I can see the vision of all of those Cajuns with the trucks and the saws. What an unbreakable spirit those people have. I have no doubt that there is also an armada of bass boats just waiting to go to work as well.

I once read somewhere that "the future belongs to those few of us still willing to get our hands dirty", this certainly seems to apply.

Bless em all

I realize that it might be inappropriate for Charles, or LGF to endorse, or recommend ourLizard on the ground, Bayou King, as a worthy recipient of your relief dollars, but I am not constrained by legal or ethical considerations, so I do recommend, for your consideration, precisely this course of action.
Check out the newly minted website [Link: www.punditeria.com...] which is dedicated to this relief effort. Contributors for this site are listed as,Bayou King , and A Lizard . Instinct tells me that Lizard lives on the west coast and owns a bicycle.
Contributions can be made by paypal, to expresley@cox-internet.com
Works for me. Later

Hard times right now, money wise for me and mine. I've got plenty of blood though, I'll give that, hope that helps.

For those of you that work for a corporation that matches funds, talk or e-mail your upper management/HR department and have them do something special during this crisis. I just got off a corporate-wide conference call that had nothing to do with the hurricane. The first question in the Q&A session to the president of the company was "what are we going to do to help?" It turns out that we have already made a $50,000 contribution to the ARC and were told that we would do something else. Within a half-hour, e-mail came out informing us that the matching contribution level, which is $1000, has been waived for the month of September for hurricane-related relief efforts and you can contribute as much as you like. Now to see if they will allow me to combine various contributors gifts and match that...

# 48 Bayou_King

Let us know about the truck and generator situation and also the pump situation. Give me a call.

Speaking of driving tanks -- or, rather, driving boats:

Isn't the D-Day Museum in New Orleans? Was it damaged?

#60 M. Bensson-Levi He did indirectly (thread 5)

UPDATE at 8/31/05 8:52:15 am:

Some LGF readers are organizing their own grass-roots efforts to help; please post links in this thread...

#22 lawhawk
That is a great idea. Blogrolling the charities allows one person (probably the Instapundit) to update and keep current the plethora of charities and ways to help, all across the myriad of blogs trying to help. All each blogger would have to do is put the blogrolling code in the sidebar (or post), and it will be updated as more information becomes available. It sure helps getting the word out, and keeping it current.

I imagine that there will be a great need for clean clothes in the weeks ahead. Time for everyone to take things out of the closet to donate, and not just all the worn, tattered stuff.

67 rayra

. FedGov just rescinded the region-specific fuel formulations, to aid in ameliorating regional gas shortages.

that will help quite a bit. they are also lifting trucker hours limits. this speeds up the infrastructure and deliveries of goods to the south.

Well, Charity Navigator (Michelle Malkin uses them to judge groups) has some UJC orgs at 3/4 stars. It would be helpful if people in the know list appropriate Jewish orgs, for those uncomfortable with contributing to overly Christian orgs.

HEY! HOW ABOUT SOMEBODY GETTIN" US SOME DAMN PETRO DOWN HERE! WE SUPPLY 40% OF THE CRUDE! Now I'm lookin at the possibility of not bein' able to get to work Tuesday! This sucks!

68 Padre
Great Idea, I did that over the weekend.
Everything was in good shape, but some stuff we found was from the 70's. I can't believe we wore that stuff (shakes head and rolls eyes)

For me, I like the Salvation Army (which friends call homophobic- I gave them MORE after those comments from my goofy friend). Other friends who were severely flooded in Pittsburgh a yr ago had nothing but good to say about the Salvation Army They also were impressed with FEMA's response.

73 baldy

For me, I like the Salvation Army (which friends call homophobic- I gave them MORE after those comments from my goofy friend). Other friends who were severely flooded in Pittsburgh a yr ago had nothing but good to say about the Salvation Army They also were impressed with FEMA's response.

were they in carnegie or etna? whatta mess that was.

MIAMI (AP) -- Miami-based Carnival Cruise Lines says it is considering a federal request that the company use some of its cruise ships as emergency shelters or help in Hurricane Katrina relief efforts in some other way.

wwltv.com

now that's thinking out of the box.

Baldy - good for you. I'm a gay man. The SA isn't there for gay or straight, they are just THERE. Unfortunately I can't even get into their online donation site, or the phone number. Will keep trying.

Rayra - I think you're in Calif. Does that mean that our extra-special-just-for-us gasoline will go elsewhere? I hope so. Most people here could afford to give up a trip or two.

Earth2 and All: Did hear a while ago that the Fed Govent DID contact the Cruise Industry. I have no idea what kind of Cruise Ships could navigate safely..but time to GET THE FUCKING LEAD OUT. Throw everything at this..like I said..Cruise Ships (if possible..if not the big ones, there are older smaller ones) Bus people out, Truck people out,Copter people out, in other words GET THOSE PEOPLE OUT. Everyone needs to be out. Its not a livable place and wont be for a long long time. Disease coming. HELLOOO.

Other great suggestion I saw on LGF: Motor Homes also should be requisitioned.

And where are these people going? I didn't even get to that. Whats my Govent doing about that..Making plans for at least 6 weeks..for a START. Estimated a Million "refugees"... Whats been set up..Bubkas I bet.

Some EIGHT Rescue Teams...are being sent. THAT ISN'T ENOUGH. Thats fucking nothing.

You know Terrorists are making "notes"..

I have NO time for Politics in this. American LIVES need to be saved and thats all Im interested in for the moment.

#50 Bayou_King:

email me again. Got a Money Order. Need your address to mail it. Darned banks take 48 hours to process a wire transfer. I can fly down with it faster than that. Will send first class. Should be there Friday or Monday latest. I await your email.

For animal rescue and shelter during disasters: Noah's Wish

#45 Rayra

They've talked about using barges to plug the breach.

After the storm, there've got to be some derilict ships damaged beyond repair that could be towed into place and scuttled. It would be tricky turning one sideways with flow, but it could be done.

This may be a moot point, though; I saw a report somewhere that the levels have effectively equalized.

All: They are "going by the book"...In my opinion, its a good time to throw that book away and get on with it..Save Lives.

re: looting

The Asst. Sec/Homeland Def talking about using active-duty troops to restore order is going to drive the LLL and stormfronters up the wall.

OT -sorta - don't know if this has been posted before or not, but :
THE GOVENOR OF LOUISIANA HAS ORDERED THAT THE ENTIRE CITY OF NEW ORLEANS BE EVACUATED.

The governor of Louisiana says everyone needs to leave New Orleans due to flooding from Hurricane Katrina. "We've sent buses in. We will be either loading them by boat, helicopter, anything that is necessary," Gov. Kathleen Blanco said

It appears that something around 80% of city residents DID heed the warning before Katrina hit to evacuate the city and did so. This is the total, MANDATORY evacuation of the enitre city.
[Link: enews.earthlink.net...]

78 Vickie

I saw that too. From miami, I think it'll take a couple days, and I don't know what the storm did to the river bottom, but I think that cruise ship sized ships can normally navigate as far as NO. That would handle a pretty good number of people. They'd be the luck ones. A lot of others are being bussed to Houston.

85 rayra

first the alternate use for m-60 tanks now this? very excellent thinking!

THE GOVENOR OF LOUISIANA HAS ORDERED THAT THE ENTIRE CITY OF NEW ORLEANS BE EVACUATED.

A few days late, no?

85 Rayra

Yes.

Thats RIGHT. EVERYONE left needs to be OUT OF THERE or else there will be some catastrophy. Background by osmosis in Public Health. And this is still summer and NO and HELLO Disease.

However you can haul those people out..do it. Then where to put them? Like I said, didnt even get that far.

DONT we have a plan? All this time? Actually no.

Ok. I now gotta case of the ass. Just tried to donate my generator, which has >20 hrs., to both the local chapters of the Red Cross and the Salvation Army. I was told they wewe not accepting "in kind" donations, only monetary. I'm now going to try to go to sleep, but it don't look good.

My parents take cruises from New Orleans all the time. The boats dock right in the city. Cruises need to be cancelled now so those boats can house people. San Francisco was talking about using mothbolled Navy ships to house homeless people. Perhaps this is an idea for the current disaster. There is a huge mothball fleet north of SF in Vallejo. Is there one closer?

86realwest

see, that's the kinda spin that pisses me off. Yeah, they gota a lotta wind and some rain, but the reason NO flooded is because the levee broke...the reason the levee broke is because it was only meant to susteain cat 2/3 forces and was NEVER upgraded since Camille! They've had 40 years! This is a man-made catastrophe created by the NO government (or lack of it) and it takes away from the dead/dying on the Mississippi coast, where whole towns have been demolished!

Charles - I've alluded to this several times before, but I think it's time to just come straight out and hit you between the eyes with it: THANK YOU!

Your non-stop coverage of this terrible disaster, coupled with your tremendous sources of where and how we can help are something you should be proud of.
I rarely profess to speak for all the minions here, but now I will - your absolutely tireless and extremely effective of the coverage of the storm, some of the reactions to it, and how we minions can help our fellow Americans deserves our heart-felt thanks.
And even if I'm not speaking for all the minions, I sure as hell am speaking for me. Thank You.
And, once again, thank you for littlegreenfootballs.

#80 foreign devil

I just emailed you Bayou King's address.

Earth2--I don't have a clue how big a ship can get in there to to NO. I was just throwing out stuff. If they cant get to NO, (tho you think they can) the big ones, then maybe the people can be bussed to wherever they can navigate. Its gonna be a long time fore people can come back IF there is much to come back to. The ships are perfect as they can be floating (at the dock) places of shelter for a significant amount of time. (I forgot to mention those Hospital Ships..I dont know how many Americans have or where they are)

Step 1: Get em the hell out..

I thought? that since 9/11 Public Health and Emergency Planning would have shaped up..but it looks like they DIDN'T.

This is a long sorry story of how we didn't prepare in years past and apparently not now either. G...Dammit!

Well this is certainly a "wake up" call. That is if anyone wants to answer.

From an AP story earlier today:

When asked why they ignored evacuation orders, some said they did not think the storm would be that bad; others would not give a reason.

This makes a sad situation all the more tragic.

Scott: Thank you for the information. YEs..cancel the cruises (later for vacationeers) and get them the hell down there.

guys, i posted the latest update for the LGF Mandeville Hospital relief fund on the website
if anyone can help us out, all the info and a donation link is on the website: Mandeville Hospital relief fund

you can donate directly by going to [Link: www.paypal.com...] and sending funds to my e-mail address: expresley@cox-internet.com

gotta go!

have not had time to read the posts. am trying to keep up with my e-mail.

to all of you who have donated but have not heard back from me, THANK YOU!

Folks, check punditeria.com for Bayou's mailing address. I will pass along URGENT messages as best as I can. There is also a Western Union very close to him in Youngsville, LA. It's probably hard for him to keep checking his email, LGF threads, voicemail, and punditeria.com ...Just a concerned thought. Not trying to tell y'all what to do.

182 Rayra

ad to that the two refineries here on the Gulf that were completely demolished and we got the makins of a true screw job!

Anybody know what kind of planes the civilian Airport can handle?

Military Airport around NO?

# 80 Foriegn Devil

B_K has a mailing address posted on his relief blog B_K's Blog

107 rayra

airforce one gets priority handling. they fly in straight lines at mach .8 from point a to point b

103 rapp

fyi generators. i called lowes and home depot in Phoenix area with plans of bringing some units at least part of the way to NOLA. i found out that both companys diverted all large generator shipments to their Eastern US stores when Dennis? hit the Gulf back in June. I was told that nothing bigger than a 5.5kw unit could be found at any location of either store anywhere west of the Mississippi.

Bayou_King,

You, sir, are a god. Thanks to you and to everyone else helping out.

Terry Teachout has a comprehensive stormblog with links to resources.

Citizen from NO that owns an ambulance service says conditions have gotton very bad there and the Pres. needs to send the regular Military down there NOW. Like DONT WAIT..send NOW. ie throw the damn book away...

He is having trouble getting the patients out of NO Hospitals. BOTH the conditions, no water, no communications etc etc AND the Lawlessness is hampering his efforts.

#106 rayra:

Google News Search for Pascagoula

Northrop had damage to its facilities on the Gulf but major ships managed to head out to sea to avoid Katrina.

#104 Paxnhym

Which two were completely demolished?

This from the Times Picayune:

Oil refineries still shut down.

(AP) - Eight Gulf of Mexico refineries remain shut and one is
operating
at a reduced rate while damage from Hurricane Katrina continues to be
assessed by oil and gas companies.

Access to some of the refineries is difficult. Conditions at those
locations
are as follows:

_ Baton Rouge, La. - At nearly 394,000 barrels a day, one of the gulf's
largest refinery owned by Exxon Mobil Corp. is running at a reduced
capacity.

_ Pascagoula, Miss. - Chevron Corp.'s 325,000 barrel a day refinery
remains shut. The company says access to the refinery remains
difficult.

_ Norco, La. - Valero Energy Corp.'s St. Charles refinery is not likely
to resume its 260,000 barrel a day operations for up to two weeks.

_ Garyville, La. - Marathon Oil Corp.'s 245,000 barrel a day refinery
remains shut. Access is limited.

_ Belle Chasse, La. - ConocoPhillips' Alliance refinery remains shut
while the company continues to assess damage to the 255,000 barrel a day
facility.

_ Convent, La. -- Motiva Enterprises's 255,000 barrel a day facility
sustained minimal damage.

_ Norco, La. - Access to Motiva Enterprises's 242,000 barrel a day
refinery is limited, so damage still is being assessed.

_ Chalmette, La. - Exxon Mobil has not been able to visit the 183,000
barrel a day refinery, which shut down on Sunday.

_ Meraux, La. - The 125,000 barrel a day facility by Murphy Oil Corp.
remains shut down as access remains limited.

As$holesayswhat?

Andy Jackson won the Battle of New Orleans. Will George Bush? His poll numbers already at near-record low levels, he will have to oversee the rescue of the Gulf in the midst of a changing climate in Washington. The public’s sense of where America is headed — the “right direction/wrong track” numbers — are dismal. Gas prices are high and unsettling. Congressional Democrats, reluctant since 9/11 to take on a “war president,” finally have decided to do so. And Republicans, knowing that they’ll be facing the voters a year from now, are beginning to seek ways to distance themselves from him.

Somebody please pimp-slap Howard Fineman for me, ok?

In So Cal today, August 31, you can drop off money donations for the Red Cross at Dodger Stadium and The Pond.

#13,80 foreign dev
#23 Mike C.
#110 DocDublU

All noted and lumped into one email to Bayou.

foreign dev., looks like you already have the mailing addie. hit me back if you need more.

Let's keep it simple for Bayou. He's swamped. ALWAYS encourage him to H.A.L.T. if he gets too Hungry Angry Lonely Tired. He has some folks helping out on his end, but don't want him to burn out too fast.

Re: Nam Grunt...maybe he should hook up Bayou, who can get Parish commissioners and town/city mayors to get State Troopers to clear the way. Good idea to have at least ONE emergency personnel to ride "shotgun".

Rush is reporting that the EPA is temporarily waiving fuel blend standards to improve the national fuel supply.

Stand by for eco-whining in 5... 4... 3... 2...

NOLA mayor saying hundred to thousands dead in city.

#116 ed of many names.

I did that earlier today on my blog. Just doing my job...

In a bit of good news, DuPont is donating $1 million in cash to local efforts, plus material donations of needed supplies.

#113 Vickie

I agree. This is one time, we can't just say "well hindsight is 20/20".

We know what's going on. We know there are well armed gangs roving around. Last night they tried to break into a hospital and no police came to help.

Just sent Bayou a donation through PayPal. Very quick and easy for anyone wanting to donate.

Watching the footage of the current rescue effort, the elderly folks/diabetic from a NO rooftop. That is one HELL of a Blackhawk pilot to sit there stationary for as long as he has been. Notice the crewchief has his combat patch, guess it's all cake when the mutts aren't shooting at you. Props to the troops.

EMERGENCY REQUEST!

GENERATORS LOCATED BUT TRANSACTION TIME-CRITICAL!

NEED SOMEONE WITH AT LEAST $1,500 of CREDIT

PLEASE E-MAIL MIKE C. IMMEDIATELY

at mconefrey@hotmail.com

THANK YOU!

PLEASE HURRY!

P.S. CREDIT WILL BE REIMBURSED FROM HOSPITAL FUND

Dave: So right. We are getting first hand reports. I just myself heard that armed gangs are roaming. This is more serious then just regular ole looting. They should have shut this down already. And the Mayor is right. EVERYONE needs to be outta there. (I dont care if he was or wasnt wrong before he is right..NOW) If possible they can come back next week..if there water, food, or power or communications.

Listen, if we have to "politic" it to get them off their ass..then maybe we should. SO-Note to Repbs..if this keeps up you lose the next time around. (whoever happens to be in power at the time of one of these incidents and DO NOT do the job..lose)

#116 ed of many names.

I did that earlier today on my blog. Just doing my job...

In a bit of good news, DuPont is donating $1 million in cash to local efforts, plus material donations of needed supplies.

Katrina and the Waves

#85 Rayra

That is a good idea, really. One would not need a whole fleet of ships, but just a few of them. There may be hidden difficulties (who mans and maintains those ships etc.), but the only major one is that potable water cannot be stored indefinitely; you need either to renew the stock form time to time, or have treatment plants downstream the tank. Either way, it's absolutely feasible.

My hope of this disaster, NOT surpassing 9/11, in terms of deaths is being dashed...and quickly.

As a last slap that bitch Katrina, in additon to loss of power, for a few hours a large old tree toppled. It's sitting on my roof...don't think there is damage, at least none that I can see.

Two things held that tree from going straight through my roof as we slept last night. Younger more flexible trees that cushioned the fall...and a force more powerful then I, you and all.

Dave: Heard a NY Emergency "guy" on describing what is going on down in NO. Within twelve hrs homes standing in significant water..are almost no good. Specially homes that are up to the roof in water are almost a total loss.

In the water down in NO are Alligators and SNAKES.

Then there is the bacteria..

This is a mess..and looked to ME right off the bat that it was time to evacuate and get really REALLY serious about this.

I don't know what the wait is for.

Any word of Muslim organizations fundraising for the victims of the hurricane?

115 tridroid97

That's going to hurt. Bad.

I know this a rant from a distance but WTF is going on in NO? I am watching Fox and there are thousands of people walking on the highway to the Superdome. They've been walking for miles through waist deep water with nothing to eat or drink.

WTF are city trucks, National Guard deuce and a halfs? I am not saying anything bad about the troops in the field, they are clearly working thier asses off. This is a failure of leadership. A couple of dozen trucks would make all the difference in the world. The supplies exist but aren't getting into the disaster area 2 days later. That is unacceptable. People are dying in the streets. This isn't Somalia for God's sake.

We were ferrying potable water into Indonesian within 3 days after the tsunami. There's no excuse for this.

This needs to become a military operation from A to Z right now. Only they have the manpower, communications and supplies to make a dent in this. If the civil authorities can't get it done...get the hell out of the way.

As I type this a military truck full of water is pulling up to the Superdome. Let them do their job, they are the only ones who can.

#135 Liz Ard

.

Any word of Muslim organizations fundraising for the victims of the hurricane?

Don't need 'em. They'd only do it for PR purposes anyway. To be used as Taqiyya later on

Liz: Somebody will tell Islam that it would be good PR to HI Profile ( or leaked story that will be hi profile) Contribute to this effort. Also its Oil and Gas Country down there and it doesn't "look nice" within the Industry for the Saudis NOT to step up. They wont give cause they want to, they might give cause its good for Politics and Business.

Bayou_King:

I've done a little research on generators in that size range, and you have some choices to make. 10kW is a bit large for portable gasoline generators, and the availability starts to thin out. Other considerations are:

Duty: I would expect these to be running at least 12 hours a day, if not 24. 7 days a week. They will consume about 1 gallon/hr at full load, and probably 0.4 idling. You may want to consider a power-down period at night to conserve fuel, wear and tear, and noise. Propane lamps would be a good idea during that time. This is no job for a cheap Chinese generator. You want a good Honda or Yamaha. A used industrial machine will be better than a new cheapo. The welder option seems very reasonable.

Contingency: They also need a backup plan in case the generator fails. they may be out of poewer for a day or so until you or someone else can repair or replace.

Fuel: At 1 gal/hr, you will need at least 50 gal of fuel on site. A drum would be perfect. Two would be better. Diesel is better (for a number of reasons) than gasoline, but a diesel generator in that size will probably not be available.

Price: A good Japanese unit will probably be in the $3000-4000 range new. I know you don't have that kind of budget (yet). Some Texans scouting the surplus yards would be a good idea, but RebTex didn't sound too hopeful. If BordM can find some welders, that would be great.

Service: If this is for lighting, A/C, etc. 10 kW should be plenty, and a welder may have adequate voltage and frequency regulation. If there is specific medical equipment, it needs to be reviewed. Wattage may not be the only consideration. You may be able to get away with a smaller generator than 10 or even 8 kW if you sharpen your pencil on the power budget. That involves adding up all the watts of the Lights, AC, and any other applianes. There are some other tricks too, just get ahold of me.

Islamic extremists rejoiced in America's misfortune, giving the storm a military rank and declaring in Internet chatter that "Private" Katrina had joined the global jihad, or holy war. With "God's help," they declared, oil prices would hit $100 a barrel this year.

Link

fabio, ships can make potable water, they have to for their boilers

JEWISH CHARITIES FOR HURRICAN RELIEF:

Contributions through the United Jewish Communities should be made online at [Link: rs6.net...]
or, by mail at United Jewish Communities, P.O. Box 30, Old Chelsea Station, NY 10113, attention: Hurricane Katrina. Mark the memo section of checks with "Katrina."

Contributions through B'nai B'rith International should be made online at [Link: rs6.net...]
or, by mail at the B'nai B'rith Disaster Relief Fund: B'nai B'rith International, 2020 K Street, NW, Seventh Floor, Washington, DC 20006.

Contributions through The Red Cross should be made online at: [Link: rs6.net...]
or, by phone at 1.800.HELP.NOW.

Lord, this is becoming "Escape from New Orleans". Where is Kurt Russell to shoot the bad guys? I hear Bush is going to speak at 5 p.m. but I don't know if that's east or west coast time. He really should order regular Army troops into the city to deal with the chaos. I can't imagine what it's going to be like in a few more days with all the toxics, dead people, leaking, etc.

132 FabioC.

potable water cannot be stored indefinitely;

Chlorine is wonderful stuff. With it, you can store potable water longer than you would ever want to.

#142 Jakester

Sure they do. But as I understood, Rayra's idea was to take a decommissioned oil tanker, overhaul it and fill some of its holds with diesel, some with potable water to have it ready in case of emergency.

Probably already posted, just received this, a link to wwwl.tv, and there is a live video stream.

RE # 126 Bayou_King

I already bought the generators, and more may be on the way. Just keep those donations flowing to Bayou_King's fund. My Amex card has all four feet in the air, isn't moving and isn't breathing.

Bush cannot order regular troops in to handle anything. He can get the coast guard involved and the Governors of LA amd MS can call in the guard and state police. I have no idea what is taking them so long.

Houston is going to get the ten thousand or so folks from the Super Dome.

Lizards on the ground in Houston - keep us updated on what can be done to help.

Mike C did you get my email?

MANDEVILLE HOSPITAL UPDATE

my brother's wife just called.

the emerging needs so far are:

1. air mattresses.

2. COBRA long-range walkie talkies (or another brand, as long as they're the same) - 10 pairs.

3. Ten (10) 5-day ice chests, the kind you can plug in.

4. Veterinary staff and supplies

5. All the gasoline, diesel and water we can send.

The hospital is partially flooded and staff are having to sleep on the floors upstairs, and space is getting very tight.

These items are disappearing from La. shelves. we may need these shipped in from other states.

a key point about the veterianary stuff - my sister-in-law says this is critical becuase there are ravenous wild dogs everywhere and quite a few people are being bitten. four cases in the E.R. today. they need to be able to establish animal control. i am now consulting with them on getting their guns together, as armed mobs are reported now in certain areas.

Can anyone work on items # 1-4?

any help greatly appreciated!

Isn't the outpouring of support from around the world heartwarming?

/sarc off

Charity Hospital in NO is waiting for their patients to be rescued. Can you imagine being in a hosp. so helpless in all this mess.

Reporter saying that the roads are a big mess and not being cleaned and rescuers cannot get in. The reporter is also saying that the break in the Industrial Canal Levee is also creating a huge problem. Same with the 17th St. Canal break..All this H2O is keeps flooding and flooding into NO.

NO needs Active MILITARY units that can handle these problems..Engineers etc. They cant even get those sand bags in cause of the usual route is messed up by breaks in bridges. (or something along those lines)

I am in CT. I can lend credit (and make a donation) if others can pick up and deliver the stuff.

#153 Bayou_King

I'm more-or-less tapped. But check your e-mail; I've hit up a couple friends.

# 151 david e

No, not yet. Sorry.

Good News?

Maj. Gen. Don Reily, head of the U.S. Corps of Engineers' storm recovery operation, said at midday Wednesday that Lake Pontchartrain water level has dropped and has “equalized” with flood-waters in the city. That means water has begun to recede, flowing back into the lake, at a rate of approximately a half-inch an hour.

“As it (the water) recedes this will help” the attempt by the Corps and the New Orleans Sewerage and Water Board to temporarily plug the breach in the 17th Street Canal and drive sheet-pilings and also possibly rock into the junction of the canal at Lake Pontchartain,” the general said.

More...

I sure hope the gangstas and thugs that are "wilding" in New Orleans don't think they're going to pull that shit here in Houston.

#150 Renna

That's nice of you. I'm already busy helping the NO refugees who ended up in our neighborhood. They need jobs -- I'm hiring one to paint a mural on my daughter's bedroom wall. Plus cleaning out my closets, plus organizing meals to help out the host families...

One thing everybody can do right now for Houston: pray that law and order and peace are maintained with the groups that are headed here. I'm thinking some may never go back.

Last I heard from my co-workers, Ochsner Hospital is holding out, but I doubt they can do so from more than another day or two. 110F in the server room today. Rechecking e-mail again. They still have power as I can reach the groupwise web mail. No more news from them yet. Hope to hear from them soon.

#35 Earth2moonbat

That's the kind of "out of the box" thinking that's needed.

I agree -- hubby heard a story last night that they were going to try to set up some sort of barrier around one or more of the levee breeches using old shipping containers filled with sand. It sounded like a pretty clever idea, but I haven't heard anything since.

cathy :-)

158 tridroid97

If these two attempts are successful, and the lake recedes more, the next step will start as soon as the city gets power to their pumps, he said. The temporary plug at the lakeshore will then be removed so that pumping station Number 6, which he said handles about 10,000 cubic feet of water per second, can began pushing water out of that canal into the lake, he said.

“It should take a minimum of 30 days to get the water out of the system,” he said. “Then of course after that there’s quite a lot of sediment and debris and a lot of material to be removed, and it will take much longer to get that,” he said.

That tells me thet they expect to be able to use the existing pumps. That's very good news. After that, there're going to be a bunch of front-end loaders scoopping up the mud.

Yet another call from sister-in-law at the Mandeville hospital.

There are growing numbers of people gathering outside the hospital. Some are getting angry. There is no food or water for them. There is no shelter. The hospital staff are trying to find buses to take them to Baton Rouge, but can't find buses. THERE IS NO SECURITY! FEMA is not responding to ANY requests, and cannot be reached. She is asking me to get ahold of her uncle, the mayor, ASAP, to send armed guards.

I had told her to call an emergency meeting of all staff and gather all weapons. She says that so far, none of the doctors want to be the first to pull out a gun.

St. Tammany hospital in Covington has armed guards at every door right now. Lakeview Regional in Mandeville, La. has none.

I found a good website link to information on the various Parishes (counties) that were impacted by the storm, and who can return home and who cannot.

My family is in Jefferson Parish. As this link indicates, they can return home for one day to collect their belongings (if anything is left) and must leave again for a month (estimated).

[Link: www.wwltv.com...]

If any other minions out there have family in the area, you can at least get news of more than just New Orleans.

Re: death toll, evacuation etc.

I first got an inkling of what was going on with this storm when I followed a link from Instapundit to Brendan Loy's site. Loy apparently regularly blogs on hurricanes.

Loy was sounding the alarm on August 26 -- last Friday. By late Saturday, he was pounding his head on his desk, figuratively, because Nagin hadn't yet ordered a mandatory evacuation.

By the time the evacuation window was closed, an estimated 100,000 people were stranded in New Orleans. We know that about 25,000 are now in the Superdome. There are certainly pockets here and there of hundreds or thousands -- but my Lord. Do the math. Do the math.

For anyone trying to find family or friends in NOLA, here is a forum set up by WWLTV.

Tropical Depression #13 gets upgraded to Tropical Storm Lee in an hour.

Poorly organized Tropical Storm Lee no threat to US

Is the looting and violence worse than is being generally reported?

It's taken a while for the admission of "hundreds, maybe thousands" of dead bodies.

Now check this final paragraph from an AP report:

Police officers were asking residents to give up any guns they had before they boarded buses and trucks because police desperately needed the firepower: Some officers who had been stranded on the roof of a motel said they were being shot at overnight.

Just what is happening there?

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/31/D8CAVTG89 .html

Well, folks, I guess we have our gold-standard prima facie evidence for strengthening the 2nd Amendment...

On Bayou's list in #152
I have a link here where anyone can order air mattresses for $19.29 and have them shipped overnight UPS to Bayou.
Do we have an address that UPS can ship to? The one on the webpage is a PO Box.
Walmart has some 8-mile range Cobra walkie-talkies for about 40 bucks. Express shipping takes one business day and you can do it all from the chair you are in right now.

#164 Rayra

The problem is to convince the folks in the bureocracy to adopt this idea. And sadly those ships would not remain idle for very long times, especially if they are used for international relief as well.

Gosh, can't even keep up with what is going on around here!

75 coldwarrior - Millvale.

#168 NY Nana

Thanks Nana, and I found that the weather forum at the bottom of this page

[Link: www.wwltv.com...]

was very helpful too as it allows folks to search the comments by Parishes.

The MSM and news outlets are more focused on the larger areas so there is little word on the residential areas and neighborhoods. Can't blame them for focusing on the big stuff, but it is nice to have access to information on the other areas.

I just donated to Bayou_King via paypal. It was easy (once I got my long-disused password). You've now got enough for one pair of walkie-talkies and maybe a box of diapers. God bless your efforts.

I heard on the radio here in So. Cal that both the Angel's and the Dodger's arenas are set up with the Red Cross stuff, and you can write a check or hand them cash. Takes two minutes. They will give you a receipt.

I bet all the baseball games around the nation will be doing that.

#173 Renna: Thanks for the legwork, but will UPS or USPS be able to deliver? I think I will stick with a cash donation for now.

Polly sent this to me yesterday for those concerned about helping the abandoned pets.

Besides donations to the Salvation Army or American Red Cross or whatever, I'm sending this to my
animal-loving friends just so you'll know you can help the critters, too...
[Link: secure.hsus.org...]

If this link doesn't work, it's to the Humane Society of the United States. (www.hsus.org) My sister used to work for the Humane Society and she said they spend
the money wisely and have disaster assistance teams already on the spot to help out with pets and other animals.

I know human needs come first, but I'm sending this out just fyi...

175 Bob's Kid

Suffice to say that the civil situation is getting worse, but there are some rays of hope on the engineering front.

Actually this storm may be the gift that keeps on giving. With all the water that was dumped into the Ohio/Mississippi watershed might we be looking at a flood in a week? Are any of the local rivers in Tennesee flooding or close to flood stage? (Tennesee, Cumberland, Yazoo, etc)

Suffice to say that the civil situation is getting worse, but there are some rays of hope on the engineering front

Seems as if!

I can imagine the engineers chomping at the bit to get in there and solve all the wonderful insoluable engineering problems that are facing them. Engineers like nothing better than a knotty problem.

Thanks to Glenn for posting my suggestion to give to Mennonite Disaster Services. This sectarian charity does not operate on the biggest scale, like the Red Cross does. However, their volunteers work family by family, gutting & disinfecting flooded houses, and helping restore them, and they will be doing this long after national attention has turned elsewhere. I know because I did some relief work elsewhere in my state in the mid-Nineties, and had a chance to work closely with them. They're the absolute salt of the earth.

#180 doppel

but will UPS or USPS be able to deliver?

I doubt if they are shipping to Mandeville, but if we send to the Youngsville address, UPS or USPS should go through. Bayou can then see it gets the rest of the way.

ANYONE WHO CAN HELP.

For items #1-4 on the list of needs in comment #152, you can order and have UPS 1-day ship to:

Mandeville Hospital Relief
236 Chemin Metairie Rd.
Youngsville, LA 70592

(For Post Office deliveries:
Mandeville Hospital Relief
P.O. Box 869,
Youngsville, LA 70592)

Click
here or here to order an air mattress ($19.29 or $14.?) and have it overnighted.

Click here to order one set 8-mile Cobra walkie-talkies. They need ten (10) sets.

If you do so, please email me (click my football) and let me know so I can keep count of walkie-talkies and mattresses.

184 Bob's Kid

The water level situation is resolving, and the pump stations appear to be usable (reading between the lines). Best estimates are a month to remove the bulk of the water, and then several more to scoop up the silt. Believe it or not, this is good news.

Believe it or not, this is good news.

I will take your word for it!

Do you know how salty the water is?

I hate to sound naive, but after 9/11 shouldn't all municipalities have developed evacuation plans from their cities in case of an attack which would work in this situation, too? I guess some of the plans wouldn't work due to flooding (although that should have been taken into consideration due to their location) but the plans certainly could have helped get everyone out beforehand. I know they did use the city buses to pick people up and get them out of the area, but that obviously didn't clear everybody out.

I just can't believe a major city and a state would not have plans to move these people in an emergency. It's not like they woke up Saturday morning and said "oh my gosh, we live where a hurricane could come ashore and we would flood".

Somebody needs to step up to the plate and take charge, ala Rudy after 9/11. When I listen to the mayor or the governor, I feel they are useless - they come across to me like they don't have a clue what to do. Heck, I've seen more suggestions made on LGF than I've heard from either of these two.

BK: I just sent out a request for donations to the organizations I belong to, as well as my customer list. Hope it helps.

Amateur Radio Volunteers Involved in Katrina Recovery

#165 Bayou

Aunt G is on the horn with Polo. I just spoke with Dee, who said he'll get state troopers on it. Just covering bases in case you can't get security from Eddie. Tell Chickenhead et al not to negotiate with the crowd...and to tell them that the LGF supplies will NOT come at all if they even THINK of pulling anything.

Haul ass, once you're route is cleared by authorities.

where are the convoys of buses to take these folks out? are they still en route? thought they'd be there by NOW--jeez--

Can the hospital use drygoods?

188 Bob's Kid

Do you know how salty the water is?

That's a good question. I haven't seen it raised before. Just guessing, not very. The water is Mississippi river water, and the storm dumped fresh water on top of that, but Gulf water could have been forced that far upstream, I suppose.

I believe that the water purifiers that they would be bringing in would be reverse osmosis, which would take of a reasonable amount of salinity.

How about a bunch of dry soups and a propane stove?

189 PollyPrissypants

We beat that one to death this morning. Yes, somebody dropped the ball. There needs to be plan "A", plan "B", and plan "C". They barely had plan "A".

Times-Picayune (NOLA.com) Updates

[Mayor] Nagin estimated 50,000 to 100,000 people remained in New Orleans, a city of nearly half a million people. He said 14,000 to 15,000 a day could be evacuated...Calli Dennis, 9, of Kenner, is among the youngest volunteers at Maravich Assembly Center, headquarters for medical triage, and she’s fighting back tears.

WWL TV

3:18 P.M. - WWL-TV's Thanh Truong reports the water from the Lake is rising to meet with the River in Uptown...3:04 P.M. - Congressman William Jefferson said BET will host a telethon to raise money for the flood victims. The telethon will be Friday, September 9... Chateau Living Center in Kenner 716 Village Road. ... They report that all of the nurses have left, Only a few aides left there that have been working since Friday. They were supposed to be evacuated by bus but they did not show up. No medications have been given since Sunday,. 4 patients have died.

Don't know if anyone has already done so, but I just e-mailed Glenn Reynolds about LGF's effort, pointing him to both this thread and the Punditeria website.

I can't send money due to a family medical emergency, but at least I'm sending prayers and doing what little else I can think of.

197

We beat that one to death this morning. Yes, somebody dropped the ball. There needs to be plan "A", plan "B", and plan "C". They barely had plan "A".

I know, I was late to the thread, just had to vent...

Earth2Moonbats: Because of the river, the water in the gulf for miles out is fairly fresh (as things go). I suspect the biggest problem with the water are organics (petrol,tar,dead stuff, sadly including dead people).

This is a joke right? A very bad joke:

An Amazon spokesperson said that the online retailer had no plans to post a donation link on its site. "Each case is different," she said. "The Red Cross has essentially given over its entire site to donations. The tsunami came out of the blue, so it was an 'all hands on deck' situation, but the Red Cross has been getting ready for this and getting its message out there for several days."

Good to know that millions of our fellow citiznes in desperate need doesn't constitute 'an all hands on deck situation' in Amazon's view.

Well, I guess it's back to buying books in stores.

Update on my #186

There is now one pair of walkie-talkies on the way to Lakeview Medical.

Nine more needed.

3:25 P.M. - Truong: A man said he was carjacked at gunpoint. Other residents of the Uptown-area say they are afraid to leave their homes because of the lack of security...FEMA Needs HSD Volunteers (WWL TV)

two-thousand Homeland Security Department workers to volunteer for hurricane relief efforts. [FEMA] has told Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff a-thousand people are needed within 48 hours and two-thousand within a week

German TV has received hundreds of phone calls from people who complain that no info about donating money is given. The desire to give is particulary strong in areas where people lived house to house with the US military. Especially elderly people who still remember the CARE parcels of the 40s, want to give. But they can't.

The thing is: Germans (especially pensioners) are not used to donate per credit card on US sites, almost all help (Tsunami for example, or the latest floods in the Alps and in Romania) is donated by wiring money to dedicated (easy to remember) bank account numbers published by major German relief organizations.

They don't have them (yet?) for Katrina Hurricane Relief.

The reason left me somewhat puzzled. Organizations like the German Red Cross and religious organizations have stated that they would love to accept money on behalf of their US counterparts but...

US help organization systematically REFUSE that offer, stating that thanks, but no thanks, the US can handle it very well alone.

Just to put things a bit in perspective.

#180 Polly

I think they did have evacuation plans. They told the people to get out. As I understand it, there was public transportation available to get people out of the city. It was a mandatory evacuation order. Many did not leave. Short of bodily picking them up and getting them out, what else was the government to do?

Hindsight is always 20/20.

Everyone always knew that NO was vulnerable under the right conditions. They knew it would be catastrophic, which it was. The city has been there for a very long time, and the most popular places are in the oldest parts of town. Short of tearing down the city and starting over in another place, what could have been done? If you lived in NO before the hurricane, would you have wanted the corps of engineers messing around with the levies? One false move, and whammo...flood. Well, we all saw what happens.

I guess it is just one of those times when you hope and pray it never happens, but once it does, in fact, happen, you just deal with it.

I have trouble playing the blame game... with this and with almost everything else. To me, life is simply playing the hand you are dealt.

I also want to say that the lizard minions have exemplified the best of us, in generousity and concern for our fellow citizens. We will never know the people that in our own small way we have helped, but the need was there in between disaster and relief, and we stepped up to fill the breach. I'm proud to be associated with each and every one of you.

#201 david e

You forgot feces. And lots of it.

Well I just donated some money via paypal to Bayou_King's effort from here in the UK. It's not exactly international aid, but I hope it helps a little.
Best wishes to all who are doing a tremendous job in these difficult times.
Condolences to all those affected.
chirpy (english bloke)

#209 Rayra

It's not only outrageous that the gov't didn't have some type of plan, but it's fucking outrageous that people who live in a below sea level bowl, sandwiched between two bodies of water, didn't get the hell out the minute the weather folks started using the word "catastrophic".

Did no one understand that with no power and the city flooding that the damned toilets weren't going to work? Who the hell came up with their emergency plan?

Pathetic from many angles.

Israel Offers Condolences and Help (Jerusalem Post)

The official said that although Israel does not have any particular expertise in battling floods, it does have a great deal of expertise dealing with collapsed buildings.

I believe that the water purifiers that they would be bringing in would be reverse osmosis, which would take of a reasonable amount of salinity

Intrusting, indeed. I am glad the water isn't too saline, because that would cause a whole 'nother set of problems when the water is gone.

208 Sarah D.

The beauty of RO, is that is takes care of all of those. IIRC, and you probably know more about this than I do, not even viruses can get through.

OTOH, is there is a tiny tear...

/Kinda like trusting a condom.

211 Sarah D.

Unfortunately, you're right. Completely.

/Kinda like trusting a condom.

Well THAT's not good!

#207 Cowgirl,

See my post 167.

They told the people to get out. As I understand it, there was public transportation available to get people out of the city. It was a mandatory evacuation order.

The mandatory evacuation order didn't come until Sunday morning. 480,000 people had to move out of that city in a day and a half.

If you get a chance to put up links relative to the availability of public transportation, I'd be interested to see them.

I've read posts from tourists who couldn't find a way out. Part of the problem is always communication. How many of the people who are floating in that water, now, had enough time to even understand their options, or how much potential danger they were in?

Glenn Reynolds has linked to this thread!

It's even more outrageous than that - it's 'oh no! we live in a city that's below sea level, sandwiched between both the Mississippi river and a huge-ass lake, BOTH held back by dikes! Let's just all remain calm and pretend the worst can't happen.'

For years and years, the people of New Orleans have been threatened by "The Big One" and they would board up their houses, pack up their kids and all their shit and head north. Then, the storm would make a little turn, and a few days and a lot of dollars for gas, food, motel, etc. later, they would come back home. Some people stayed because they thought it would be the same ole-same ole and some stayed because they had no way to leave. An evacuation order doesn't mean much if you don't have a way to evacuate and they don't provide you with one. The sad fact is, is that New Orleans is a huge city in a place where a city has no business being.

The mandatory evacuation order didn't come until Sunday morning. 480,000 people had to move out of that city in a day and a half.

Less time than that, after the mandatory order. Rain started in the afternoon, and tropical storm force winds arrived mid-evening.

#211 Sarah D.

People, consider: New Orleans, built, run and managed much like its namesake in France. (Current management does not pass global test for planning)

E2M,

RO will work for salty and contaminated water, yes. But, it is a fairly slow process and they will need a lot of water pretty quickly.

Sarah: and from Drudge:

Gulf Coast Declared Health Emergency

Like nobody saw this coming?

Sarah D, no shit, those dang fecal coliforms are going to be a poop load of trouble. As much as I am using puns, this is really going to be a huge problem.

222 Sarah D.

I don't know if there are any portable water purifiers other than RO, are there? Portable sand filters? RO is the only thing lightweight enough. Am I missing something obvious?

People are wading through sewage with injuries.

Let's see how the authorities handle the need for antibiotics and supportive care. I'll be damned surprised if they are up to the task.

Thank you Charles, great links to send credit card contributions.

Thanks to volunteers who run websites for these organizations to move money electronically to where it's needed.

Thanks to any and all who've contributed, including our friends abroad.

Thanks to those who heeded authorities and got out of town with their loved ones.

Thanks to those helping on the ground.

#226 Sarah D.

They pulled a woman out of the water who had stitches from surgery. She had gangreene. This is going to get really, really nasty.

I hope there's a stockpile of antibiotics somewhere, but I doubt it.

#132 FabioC.
#85 Rayra
There are problems with that.
1) The same people looting the jewelry stores and such are going to be undersupervised on a "luxury" cruise liner. Prepare for the ship to be stripped. Refitting those ships is going to be expensive and put them out of service during the prime vacation months.
2) The passenger service crew is paid by tips from the passengers. The same people who are looting the carcass of N.O. aren't going to pay the staff bupkus. The service crew ain't a gonna stay under those conditions even if the cruise line made up for the difference in wages. (snip bit about race and tip/service level required)
3) without the distractions of an active cruise, the N.O.Looters are going to get restless. fights, rapes, muggings and worse are going to occur unless very closely supervised by armed security. ACLU ain't going to put up with that much security "violating their civil rights". (Actually they should be required to sign off on accepting the cruise line performing extra security as a condition of being on board)
The middle class people who ran would present no insurmountable problems. The Healthy occupants of the Superdome are another kettle of worms entirely. (that specifically excludes the elderly, hospital evacuees, and people whose medical disabilities made it impossible to participate in the evacuation)

Sorry if already posted, CNN says 10,000 Guard troops being mobilized for Katrina duty.

#222 Ed

Less time than that, after the mandatory order. Rain started in the afternoon, and tropical storm force winds arrived mid-evening.

Yes, I was trying to be generous.

When do you think they should have ordered a mandatory evacuation?

Is anyone watching the live coverage on WWLTV.com?

It's really sad.

A photographer shot raw footage of people coming in from outlying areas on ferrys. It's something I've never seen before.

Now they are showing views from a helicopter of older apartment buildings with people traped on the roofs and balconies. Waving for help like they are on Giligans Island.

Hospital Updates -Nearly 10,000 Await Evac (Times-Picayune)

BATON ROUGE - Some 1,600 patients at nine New Orleans-area hospitals hit hard by Hurricane Katrina are awaiting evacuation, health care officials said Wednesday. Another 8,600 hospital staffers and their families, along with healthy people who sought refuge in the hospitals during Katrina, also are awaiting help, said spokeswoman Coletta Barrett of the Louisiana Hospital Association.

The military should be bringing the antibiotics in. I worry less about the supply than the distribution. When things will be at there very worst the USS Comfort should be on station. That will help. I am a bit unhappy that they didn't set sail earlier. They could have sailed with a skeleton crew and pickuped the rest in Miami perhaps.

Disease Worries HSS (WWL TV/AP)

"We are gravely concerned about the potential for cholera, typhoid and dehydrating diseases that could come as a result of the stagnant water and the conditions," he said

Another way to look at the evacuation issue:

If 100,000 people didn't leave (I see Nagin's latest estimate is 50-100,000, but originally he said 100,000) then the evacuation, as executed, was approximately 80 percent successful (using round numbers).

Is that good enough?

For a city that has known, for years, what the consequences of a direct hit hurricane would be?

As for foreign aid, some people would really, really like for us to beg.

You know ... the way we waited for them to beg before instituting The Marshall Plan ... oh, wait ...

Hey, Jheka! Bogey is on my feet. Rummy remains in hiding, but I'm gonna haul his lil' unhappy butt out from his hiding place tonight. Rummy has been out of hiding exploring, though.

#239 SwampWoman:

You're the best!

Yeah, Rummy is all about staying at an undisclosed location during times of stress :) . If I was leftier, I'd say that I should have name him Cheney ... but I'm not, so I won't :) .

OK I found a way for Germans to donate with or without credit card.

[Link: spende.caritas.de...]

The German Caritas will forward all Katrina donations to

[Link: www.catholiccharitiesusa.org...]

Hope that helps. I already donated directly per credit card.

#238 Jheka

Good to know.

God forbid anything happens in the world for the next 5 years or so and they call on us. We'll just put them on hold.

And if some snot from the UN complains about our stinginess, I hope he has good security.

Good luck world, we're a little busy. Your on your own.

Swamp - can I get you and AI to kiss and make up?

/Ducks like a quack...

I only caught about the last 15-20 seconds of the speech .. somebody want to give a summary?

#225 Earth2moonbat

Not that I'm aware of. Mobile RO systems are used in this type of situation certainly, but it will take some time to get them in place (since I guess the NO government didn't foresee this problem). Until then chemical methods are quick and bleach is cheap.

#242 True German Ally

On behalf of all the homeless folks on the Gulf, thank you.

Actually, if you want to takl about commentary, Brett Favre of the Green Bay Packers, made some wonderful and heartfelt and intelligent comments during a press conference this morning (his family lost their homes in Mississipi and he is heading up some relief efforts through his charity).

#245 Jheka

I am a big Bush guy and I have to say it was disapointing. He listed what's being done, talked about what he saw from AF1 (probably not the best idea) and urged people to donate money.

To my mind there's always the good Bush (peppered up, energetic) and the bad Bush (lethargic and seemingly disengaged. This wasn't the full on bad Bush but it wasn't his best either.

I would have prefered that he announced he was federalizing this deal. Nothing too bold. FEMA is coordinating, DOD is sending ships, etc. It just seems this effort is adrift (could just be the view from a distance). But the people who didn't plan this too well (if the Dome is your major shelter of last resort, why aren't supplies pre-positioned there?) aren't exactly shining through in the aftermath.

This is getting worse and will for sometime. God help us all.

#248 Rayra

Packed conditions + explosive diarrhea = Nightmare.

246 Sarah D.

And it's going to be cloudy and nasty tasting.

I'm not sure if there are any significant chlor-alkali plants affected; I seem to recall that there was at least one in Baton Rouge. If they have to divert some chlorine from plastic manufacturing, so be it. There's a lot in Texas.

#244 Earth2Moonbat

Swamp - can I get you and AI to kiss and make up?

/Ducks like a quack...

No.

#254 SwampWoman

? Did I miss something?

They are picking people off of rooftops, two at a time.

Slow.

#177 Skippy

Thank you ! Damn, I wish it wasn't necessary..but an act of G-d is something we cannot second guess.

Anyone asking why every single town city, municipality, and especially the state, is not prepared after 9/11 is asking a very good question. I would think that the mayor of New Orleans should resign. He was asleep at the controls.

Ed Moran had a handle on it days before..

#255 Rayra:

True enough. my point is that when others, even when they are not our allies, are in trouble, we help without waiting to be asked.

In short, screw the ICRC and Caritas and all "allies" who believe that the game gets played into only one goal.

#256 Sarah D

? Did I miss something?

Nah.

260 SwampWoman

OK, forget the kiss part...

#254 SwampWoman:

I knew I liked you for a reason :) .

@Jheka, I think your assessment isn't quite fair. Germans are some of the most generous donators when it comes to disasters. The procedure described in the Spiegel is between relief organization in "rich" countries, and it's a mutual one. At least it's that what I learned recently.

Relief and donations are usually offered without being expressively asked for when it becomes clear that the respective country or countries cannot cope. For example, India declined international tsunami help that was offered spontaneously.

It is usually assumed that the US is strong enough to deal with its disasters. To offer help can easily appear "patronizing". When disasters are big enough, people will usually want to help anyway, since victims are victims wherever they live. The private German response to 9/11 simply swamped German relief organizations with money that may have been needed more urgently elsewhere.

In the same league, the US relief organizations would not offer spontaneous assistance to help with floods in the Alps (a minor scale compared to Katrina certainly) unless asked. It's unlikely that German organizations would ask for US help unless they needed something specific that only the US can provide.

There is, for example, a major famine in Niger, that doesn't get much attention. People who donate might do their own triage sometimes.

I also noted that the true dimensions of Katrina are only becoming apparent to the German people by today.

#257 Sarah D

They are picking people off of rooftops, two at a time.

Slow.

Yup. Gonna be a while before all the stranded folks are rescued.

E2M,

IIRC there were large self-contained mobile RO systems sent over after the tsumani. I believe that they were Canadian.

But, I seem to be losing my mind lately - so I could be wrong.

It's easy to sit in front of a storm thinking it will turn or that you can ride it out. But it's hard to imagine anyone living on the coast seeing Katrina on radar and making that decision. I've been in the "should we stay or should we go" position many times. I've always stayed. We were going to ride out Floyd with 110+ winds predicted 30 miles+ inland. Charley hit us as a strong Cat I, after traveling across land for over a hundred miles.

Katrina made Floyd look like Pink Floyd. I was taping windows until he was pointed right at us. Just when I started to breathe easy - once they turn North they keep doing it - the panic-stricken tourists made a mad dash to the clogged highways and died in droves.

#238 Jheka

They have a point. We don't require their help. If we relied on Europe we'd all be speaking German, Japanese, or Russian.

264 SwampWoman

Yup. Gonna be a while before all the stranded folks are rescued.

Especially when people like Nam are turned away because of the anarchy. Some of those people are going to be dead by the time they are rescued.

#262 Jheka

I knew I liked you for a reason :) .

Because you know what I'm thinking...usually the same thing you are. Only more conservatively.

The further any president is from a situation like this, the happier I am. Let the people who do this for a living do their jobs and most politicians (with the notble exception of Governors) should just BUTT out. SO Bush doesn't have specifics. That just means that he isn't taking people out of critical meetings and planning to bug them so he can look good on TV. Thanks, but no thanks.

When I was a boy scout I was at a small disaster meeting (major forest fire) and my job was to keep politicians and media at bay. "I'm just a dumb kid, what do I know." And, "No, I can't put in touch with somebody in authority." Once everybody had their tasks, the meeting leader filled in the Governor and had a press conference.

In retrospect it would have been nice to do the dumb thing for Lyndon Johnson, but I suspect it was too local for him to "need" to know. By the way Governor Cargo didn't call either, and I was ready for him dang it all.

265 Sarah D.

That's my indertanding. And carriers have very large units on board, as well. If they could get a carrier there...

Swampwoman, with the new boarders (Rummy and Bogie), what's the household total?

And how's Alvin?

#267 Earth2moonbat

Especially when people like Nam are turned away because of the anarchy. Some of those people are going to be dead by the time they are rescued.

Yep, the clock is ticking, and the stranded people WILL be drinking that nasty water or die from dehydration.

It is my understanding my step-brother who is attached to Homeland Security in Missouri is preparing to head for Louisiana as I write this. His unit comprises mostly current or former military and/or law enforcement folks, volunteer firefighters and water rescue specialists. I believe the group numbers over two dozen. I would speculate that current deployments as such are also taking place elsewhere around the country.

#252 Sarah D.

How right you are..and in the case of infants, small children, people with certain illnesses, and a compromised auto-immune system, and the elderly? It can be deadly.

As someone nearly 70, with diabetes, on insulin, the lack of refrigeration is especially of concern : storing and handling insulin; there are other brands, and all have pretty much the same requirements. The lack of drinking water leads to dehydration, and can do incredible damage.

I am auto-immune deficient because of Hashimoto's Thyroiditis...what is in the flood waters? They need medical teams to come in droves to vaccinate.

And those who left vital medication at home? It is going to get a lot worse,and survivors will probably die...

AI

Check your e-mail and see if I got through.

Just listening to a CNN reporter on scene...

He says a cop in NO told him they have no direction, no comms. They are taking gas from abandoned cars and is on his own.

A couple of thoughts:

How does a reporter driving and SUV towing a boat get into town and the Guard can't/isn't?

The cops are doing there best but they are on their own, literally. They don't have the resources to do this. This isn’t arguable. Pretending that this situation is within the power of state and local officials is killing people.

There are thousands of people stuck in a hell hole. This reporter is saying parents have no food or water for babies.

This is unacceptable.

The Guard or the regular Army has to take this over. They need to convoy trucks in and just grab people. If trouble makers don't want to go, fine. If they interfere, they get shot and left behind. Take them to the nearest staging ground (food, water and medicine) and repeat. I maybe missing something but if the Guard doesn’t have a couple of hundred trucks in the area then get them there.

I hope Nam Grunt is staying safe. This reporter (sorry, didn’t catch his name) says he heard gun shots. He wasn’t sure if he was being shot at and didn’t stick around to find out.

#271 Dianna

And how's Alvin?

Alvin is fine; the kitties are residents of my office; the other cats are working cats and stay outside or on the porch. Bogie, a very large and friendly tabby, is either lying decoratively across my desk or flinging himself on the keyboard because he's being neglected. Rummy is the Invisible Cat. If he sees me coming, he screams and hides.

I lived in Miami for 7 years. I left town for every hurricane, large or small. Didn't matter. I was outta there. There was this rider to my insurance policy that was called "hurricane insurance." I figured all could be replaced except for me, and I don't particularly like "roughing it". So, an incoming/possible hurricane always seemed like a good time to go somewhere else.

My cousin and her family left NO on Saturday. That is called common sense.

I agree with whomever it was earlier who said something like,

...when they start tossing around the word catastrophic, its time to go...

263 True German Ally

Also, I remember cases in the past, when disasters struck, where Germany sent people in to help - vital rescue teams. In one case that sticks in my mind, after an earthquake in Italy, the first people to get to the hardest hit area were a German team. I was not surprised.

#266 Beagle

They have a point. We don't require their help. If we relied on Europe we'd all be speaking German, Japanese, or Russian.

That's not quite fair. The Brits were every bit as responsible for victory in WWII as we were.

E2M,

The airport is open for emergency use only - no damage to the runways.

Large systems could be flown in there, but how to get the water to those who need it?

We've already had the two brilliant democrats (nuclear engineer & professional politician/lawyer) Presidents Carter and Clinton, micromanaging & photo-opping, err, handling national emergencies. Who wants feel good style over substance when we know lots of people screwed up knowing this was likely?

Anyone know why our first responders don't have satellite phones as back up? They were used in Afghanistan by the Northern Alliance--we ought to have that capability in all our cities in future.

New YOrk's finest had that problem on 9/11, various different non-communicating systems.

281 Sarah D.

That's the next problem. all the more reason why they need to get law and order, and get a mosquito fleet in there.

#276 Ferris

He says a cop in NO told him they have no direction, no comms. They are taking gas from abandoned cars and is on his own.

Daughter's friend's mother and aunt are in a hospital in New Orleans with the grandmother who had an operation just prior to the hurricane. Nobody at the hospital knows what is going on outside in New Orleans; they have been calling out desperately to get news whenever they can get through begging for news of when they might be able to leave. There are apparently no communications at all except when a cell phone call somehow gets through.