LGF

-RetweetMedia Made No Attempt to Verify Anti-US Lies

Mon, Nov 7, 2005 at 8:08:55 am PST

For more than a year, former Marine Jimmy Massey has been telling outrageous stories about “atrocities” committed by US forces, that he claimed to have witnessed in Iraq; LGF noted his accusations at a Canadian refugee hearing last December.

Massey was lying.

In scores of newspaper, magazine and broadcast stories, at a Canadian immigration hearing and in numerous speeches across the country, Massey has told how he and other Marines recklessly, sometimes intentionally, killed dozens of innocent Iraqi civilians.

Among his claims:

Marines fired on and killed peaceful Iraqi protesters.

Americans shot a 4-year-old Iraqi girl in the head.

A tractor-trailer was filled with the bodies of civilian men, women and children killed by American artillery.

Massey’s claims have gained him celebrity. Last month, Massey’s book, “Kill, Kill, Kill,” was released in France. His allegations have been reported in nationwide publications such as Vanity Fair and USA Today, as well as numerous broadcast reports. Earlier this year, he joined the anti-war bus tour of Cindy Sheehan, and he’s spoken at Cornell and Syracuse universities, among others.

News organizations worldwide published or broadcast Massey’s claims without any corroboration and in most cases without investigation. Outside of the Marines, almost no one has seriously questioned whether Massey, a 12-year veteran who was honorably discharged, was telling the truth.

He wasn’t.

Each of his claims is either demonstrably false or exaggerated - according to his fellow Marines, Massey’s own admissions, and the five journalists who were embedded with Massey’s unit, including a reporter and photographer from the Post-Dispatch and reporters from The Associated Press and The Wall Street Journal.

At the St. Louis Post Dispatch, Ron Harris asks, Why did the press swallow Massey’s stories?

Why, indeed?

Media outlets throughout the world have reported Jimmy Massey’s claims of war crimes, frequently without ever seeking to verify them.

For instance, no one ever called any of the five journalists who were embedded with Massey’s battalion to ask him or her about his claims.

The Associated Press, which serves more than 8,500 newspaper, radio and television stations worldwide, wrote three stories about Massey, including an interview with him in October about his new book.

But none of the AP reporters ever called Ravi Nessman, an Associated Press reporter who was embedded with Massey’s unit. Nessman wrote more than 30 stories about the unit from the beginning of the war until April 15, after Baghdad had fallen.

Jack Stokes, a spokesman for the AP, said he didn’t know why the reporters didn’t talk to Nessman, nor could he explain why the AP ran stories without seeking a response from the Marine Corps. The organization also refused to allow Nessman to be interviewed for this story.

Some media did seek out comment from the Marine Corps and were told that an investigation of Massey’s accusations had found them baseless. Still, those news outlets printed Massey’s claims without any evidence other than the word of Massey, who had been released from service because of depression and post traumatic stress disorder.

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118 comments

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1 lawhawk  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:10:06am

The media didn't seek to verify the comments because they didn't think there was any doubt as to their veracity.

2 Clutch  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:10:10am

Published in France, who'da guessed it?!?

3 Terp Mole  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:11:17am

More @ Michelle Malkin.

4 kamperken  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:11:24am

Since virtually everything the MSM publishes is an anti-US lie, why would they even bother to verify this fellow's anti-US lies?

5 BulgarWheat  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:12:05am

Nodrog, come on out. Let's play.

6 redshirt  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:12:10am

I am shocked, I tell you , shocked!

Shocked that this is no surprise, that is.

7 psaturn  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:12:46am

Why verify when the story fits their worldview and belief system ?

8 manny  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:12:52am

#2 Clutch:
"Published in France, who'da guessed it?!?"

There's apparently an acute shortage of kindling in France right now, so this should be just the thing to alleviate the problem.

9 mglazer  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:13:15am

Because it furthers their personal political agenda - that's why

And it is easy to lie in the media - they do it all the time

DONT BELIEVE THE NEWS - ever!

10 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:13:35am

Fake and inaccurate.

The media wants to believe it. That's all they need.

Correction to run on p. D34.

11 # 17  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:13:39am

The MSM just assumed "fake but accurate"

12 W-lover  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:14:12am

The MSM wanted the claims to be true, so in their minds they were true.

The Media is the enemy.

13 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:14:20am

America is evil so it must be true.

America is the enemy so hated that her enemies would believe ANY lie told about us. From Peter Arnett's lie about US use of poison gas in Vietnam, to the CIA using AIDS as a weapon and right on through to conspiring to destroy the twin towers and randomly shooting civilians (even though 95% of all enlisteds orderd to commit such an attrocity would refuse).

After all, if George Galloway says it, it must be true.

14 mglazer  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:14:55am

Hey France give the LIAR a Nobel peace prize!

15 vdh in '08  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:14:59am

it doesn't matter that we printed these falsehoods because civilians have died because of our invasion of Iraq, and that was the point

/the LLL view of journalistic integrity

16 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:15:50am

If he's in this country, he needs to be put on trial.

Enough f-ing around with this.

17 2X4 wielder  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:16:12am

Kerry

18 John N.  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:16:25am

Shouldn't we take his assertions under the doctrine of FAKE BUT ACCURATE?

Sometimes you have to lie to get the truth out.

/LLL

19 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:16:48am

It is time to eliminate the MSM by not watching it (broadcast) or buying it (print). I already do both of these, and only glance at them from time to time to check up on them. But they get ZERO money from me. If most people did this, the MSM would either vanish, or behave as good citizens of this country ought.

20 lurking faith  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:17:30am

They checked it. They hired Dan Rather's crack fact-checking squad.

21 prospero  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:18:55am

Remind me once more why anyone needs a newspaper, assuming he/she doesn't have a parrot or a fish market...

In a reality-based world, heads would roll.

22 Orbit Rain  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:20:41am
Why did the press swallow Massey’s stories?

...because the media is full of a bunch of lying cocksuckers more interested in their own agenda and enrichment than reporting truth...

23 FrogMarch  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:21:00am

The US mainstream media is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democrat party.
The MSM is agenda driven - pure and simple.

Scary.

Is it any wonder the vast majority of the left's constituents adore and have blind faith in communist and socialist dictatorships like Mao Stalin and Castro where truth tellers and dissenters were jailed or killed?

Now these leftists can't kill us yet, but they have the DNC state-run left-wing media to entice the stupid and naive to feel the hate.

24 TotallySirius  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:21:02am

"I witnessed atrocities..."

Deja-vu all over again

I wonder if the atrocities are seared...seared into his memory?

Do I see a political career in Massey's future?

Perhaps a senate hearing or two...a book deal?

25 Terp Mole  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:21:18am

Gateway Pundit links to video that shows Massey and Cindy Sheehan "warning parents about the evils of military recruiters."

26 razorbacker  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:21:45am

Hey people, they call them "reporters", not "verifiers". They report, you figure it out. (Hey, there may be a slogan there, let me see, where is that number for CNN.)

27 Paul  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:21:54am

Why wouldn'd the MSM seek to verify or disprove Massey's outrageous statements? That's a rhetorical question, the MSM believed them to be true, wanted them to be true and decided they were true.

The MSM decided that in publishing and promoting Massey's lies that it was telling a "higher truth" about the war in Iraq and the Bush administration.

They did the same thing in Vietnam. It worked then and they have decided it will work again.

28 FrogMarch  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:25:11am

Massey LOOKS like someone who would be employed on SNL or at Air America. Massey has that snarky lying Gore-awful-o-Franken-Sheehan brain-dead leftist appearance.

29 Terp Mole  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:25:33am
razorbacker @ #26: Hey, there may be a slogan there

Yep.

Former Marine Lies, Media Credibility Dies

30 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:25:52am

How much traction will these revelations that Massey is a bald-faced liar get? Very little, if history is any guide.

31 Terp Mole  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:28:51am

Why does this keep echoing in head?

... razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan...
32 Pro-Bush Canuck  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:30:51am

Why is this not treason? This man has done more damage to America than virtually anyone I can think of.

33 Model4  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:31:20am

I'm starting to think the MSM papers and broadcasts need disclaimers with every article: "This might not be true at all." If it can be used to hurt our country, especially when it has conservative leaders, there are no rules.

Uh, but they are patriots who support our troops. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

34 RaiderDan  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:32:45am

Korans being flushed down the toilet. U.S. Marines shooting unarmed prisoners. Gitmo guards "torturing" detainees. Bush "AWOL" from the Texas National Guard. Bush tells Palestinian leaders ``God Told Me to Invade Iraq) U.S. uses ``nerve gas'' in Vietnam (CNN Tailwind Scandal)

(All true, in MSMs warped view, since they MUST be true and they fit in the worldview.)

John Kerry lying about his war record? Bill Clinton selling secrets to Chinese military for campaign contributions. Sandy Berger stealing classified information to cover up ``Able Danger" bungling by Clinton administration.

(Vicious lies by the evil right-wing forces according to the MSM)


See a pattern here?

The MSM is the failed defender of the Left, and seeks to attack the Right and Military at any turn, truth or not.

No wonder their readership is shrinking. Thank God for the Internet.

As I like to say...
Being A Liberal Journalist Means Never Having to Say You're Sorry

35 ggt  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:33:41am

""Rex Smith, editor of the Albany (N.Y.) Times Union, said he thought the newspaper's story about Massey could have "benefited from some additional reporting." But he didn't necessarily see anything particularly at odds with standard journalism practices.

The paper printed a story in which Massey reportedly told an audience how he and other Marines killed peaceful demonstrators. There was no response from the Marine Corps or any other evidence to back Massey's claims.

Smith said that, unfortunately, that is the nature of the newspaper business.

"You could take any day's newspaper and probably pick out a half dozen or more stories that ought to be subjected to a more rigorous truth test," he said.

"Yes, it would have been much better if we had the other side. But all I'm saying is that this is unfortunately something that happens every day in our newspapers and with practically every story on television."""

[Link: www.stltoday.com...]

emphasis mine. I think I'll print this out and put it on the computer. An admission in print. priceless

36 TalkinKamel  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:33:45am

We just have to accept the fact that, in this war, the media is on the side of the enemy, not us.

37 Just_A_Grunt  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:36:33am

I am seriously disappointed in the denizens of the blogosphere who did not find the evidence to debunk this guy before the MSM, The St Louis Dispatch, no less did.
We must hang our head in shame and realize that we missed on this one.
Alright my chiding is done. Now lets get back out there and continue to debunk these Lying Liberal Lefties.

38 bluetick  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:36:40am

Once again the MSM has let us down. I have a great idea...why not get all the top bloggers together, and form a blog-based news source. We could call it...we could call it...ummm...

39 Sizzle  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:37:28am

Do you think the French youths burned that book?

40 redstateredneck  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:37:50am

Somebody in St. Louis buy Ron Harris a beer on me.

41 ggt  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:38:52am

I think it is worse, they are not on our side, or the enemies--they are above all that. Some are on the side of some undefined, obscure higher ideal of what reality "should be." The rest are on the side of their own pocketbooks.

The media is a PRODUCT. We vote with our dollars--what sells get's printed, DON'T BUY IT.

I've noticed Hollywood bending over backwards to produce remakes and sequels to all the basic good vs. evil Marvel Comic type films. People like good and evil clearly defined and they like the "good guy" to win.

42 MJ  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:39:14am

Hey, give the poor guy a break! After all, he was just padding his resume for his next gig- being the spokesman for the Palestinian Authority!

43 doppelganglander  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:41:39am

#21 prospero: I beg to differ. Over the weekend I was packing up some breakable items and I really wished I had a newspaper to wrap them.

Boortz is talking right now about the dropping circulation of virtually every major paper in the country. It's probably mostly because people read the news online, but their biased content doesn't help.

44 mike(in)savage  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:41:43am

So five journalists who were embedded with the same unit have allowed this story to go unchallenged for a year? Why is it up to somebody else to come to them for clarification? Were they unaware of the stories being peddled which they knew from their own experience were not true? And yet they choose to remain silent, because, "Hey, nobody asked us!"?

Remind me again what purpose they are serving?

45 tum  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:42:39am

hey, it was fake ... but accurate

46 Just_A_Grunt  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:44:15am

Does anybody remember a time when there has been such a disinformation campaign waged against us by our own citizens?

47 Terp Mole  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:45:18am
jsut a grunt @ #37: I am seriously disappointed in the denizens of the blogosphere who did not find the evidence to debunk this guy before the MSM, The St Louis Dispatch, no less did.

Maybe not LGF but Glenn Reynolds, the Instapundit, noticed something was up with Jimmy Massey last year!

48 Beagle  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:45:49am

If you go back and search this story I mentioned the financial, status, and attention advantages any ex-soldier could automatically gain by saying anything negative about our troops. Soros has billions stored in offshore accounts for just this sort of thing.

I admit I'm cynical, and prone to being somewhat abrasive, but give me credit for calling BS like this at least 80% of the time.

This was John Kerry's "cut off ears, raped, Gengis Khan... BS... BS..." all over again.

Gee, what did that testimony do for Kerry? Only make him a media darling, political figure, known worldwide, a Communist hero, leading light in the anti-war movement, U.S. Senator, and Democratic presidential candidate.

Follow the money, and don't fear your cynicism.

49 RaiderDan  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:46:28am

Old MSM's Circulation Plunging


But bias, has nothing, nothing to do with this. Not a smidge. Mike Wallace told me so.

50 sillyquiet  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:46:37am

Hey folks,
have some respect! Media credibility has been dead for years, and here you are, kicking it! You people make me ill!

All kidding aside, this just illustrates what we all know, and what we wish more people did know. Do not trust any media outlet. Correlate and verify, preferably with antagonistic sources. You know, like Charles does most of the time.

/keep on fighting the good fight, folks

51 ggt  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:47:01am

Just a Grunt:

Actually, I think every war has had this type of media resistance. I read something about it and WWII. I think the Civil War propaganda was especially nasty.

52 Timbre  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:47:17am

If he deliberately lied to hurt our national defense efforts, he needs to be indicted, tried, convicted (because of his lies) and sent to prison. Our responsibility is to truth and to the innocent people we are defending from terrorism and, apparently, terrorist sympathizers like Massey.

53 MoonbatBane  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:48:26am

The media's lies make me so mad that I can't even put it into words.

They're all about "getting Bush" and taking down the Evil Empire (i.e., America). For example, in all the stories about Wilson, Plame, Libby Scooter, Cheney, "distorted intelligence," Senate hearings, and (hope for) impeachment, how many times has the MSM noted that the US military found over one TON of enriched yellowcake (uranium) in Iraq? Probably from Niger? (OK, most lizards probably knew that, but then lizards are an unfortunately rare breed.)

If it's not print to fit their agenda (i.e., Get Bush), the NY Times et al. simply will not cover it.

The left-wing press is dangerous. I don't know what the answer is, though. Can't have gov't control -- that's even more dangerous. Sigh.

54 yournamehere  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:49:18am

#16 jammie wearing fool
If he's in this country, he needs a big red bullseye on his forhead. Maybe that's a little harsh. I t should at least be on his butt !

55 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:50:52am
Rex Smith, editor of the Albany (N.Y.) Times Union, said he thought the newspaper's story about Massey could have "benefited from some additional reporting." But he didn't necessarily see anything particularly at odds with standard journalism practices.

(...)

Smith said that, unfortunately, that is the nature of the newspaper business.

"You could take any day's newspaper and probably pick out a half dozen or more stories that ought to be subjected to a more rigorous truth test," he said.

When all of those "half dozen or more stories" have the same political slant and feed the relentless Bush-bashing, you wonder why circulation and viewership is plunging? What about it, Rex?

56 TalkinKamel  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:51:28am

"Follow the money, and don't fear your cynicism."

That's a great slogan! Mind if I use it? (Actually, I think everybody should use it!)

57 Terp Mole  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:53:43am

Michelle Malkin reports CNN had an interview with Ron Harris this morning.

Here's the CNN transcript.

Jimmy Massey has profited off of this. He does have a book. He has a Web site in which he sells his story on a CD for a hundred dollars. I think it's called jimmymassey.com. So it's been profitable for Jimmy Massey to keep telling this lie.

Massey borrowed Media Whoring for Dummies from Cindy Sheehan.

58 schlagerman  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:54:14am

From the Encarta® World English Dictionary, North American Edition:

treason: a violation of the allegiance owed by somebody to his or her own country, e.g. by aiding an enemy.

I'd say this definition fits Massey perfectly, especially the "aiding an enemy" part. He's done more to undermine this country than just about anyone else. When do the court proceedings begin? When will the corrections be printed in all the "news" outlets which carried this BS? I won't hold my breath.

59 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:54:19am

#51 ggt

Actually, I think every war has had this type of media resistance. I read something about it and WWII. I think the Civil War propaganda was especially nasty.

Cartoons depicting Lincoln as an ape were quite common. He was probably the target of more vindictive press than Bush is today.

60 BR DevilDog  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:55:42am

Remember when reporters actually investigated claims to see if they were true, rather than blindly and gleefully publishing anything that damages the president, the military, and the war? Yeah, me either.

61 yournamehere  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:56:42am

#42 MJ
He won't be a spoksman for the PA. It'll be cnn or pmsnbc or abc, some alphabet news corp. And he'll be introduced as an authority on the subject. Complete with some ghost writer book deal to hump. He'll make the whole circle, collect his cash and disappear into obscurity.

62 Catttt  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:59:32am

Yesterday, when I googled this in the news, there were eight hits, which expanded to five news sites (Houston Chronicle, Jihadunspun, Seattle Times, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, and Salt Lake Tribune) running articles about the lies. Today, there are two blog sites coming up in Google news with comments on the lies (Questions and Observations and Wizbang) - no new news sites listed by Google are running the story.

Of course, when I googled Staff Stg. Jimmy Massey, I got hundreds of hits reporting the lies, with no follow-up. Zip. Nada. Crickets.

63 schlagerman  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:01:13am

"Follow the money, and don't fear your cynicism."

Brilliant. Great slogan for a bumper sticker.

64 wee fury  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:06:41am

I'm no lawyer. So can somebody answer me this? Isn't deliberate lying, slander, false accusations grounds for an indictement for something?

65 Darwin Akbar  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:08:07am

Here is a copy of the e-mail I sent to Mr. Harris yesterday (with copies to his editors and Michelle Malkin):

Dear Mr. Harris:

I have just read your columns from 11/05/05 on the Jimmy Massey story, courtesy of a link from Michelle Malkin's web site.

You are to be commended for your bravery in reporting this story, as it is hard to believe that it took a full year for even one reporter to actually look into Mr. Massey's claims.

That does, of course, beg the question you raised in your sidebar, i.e., "Why did the press swallow Massey's stories?"

The answer to that is a simple one.

It is the reason that The Boston Globe published photos of what they claimed were images of Iraqi women being sexually abused by British or American troops, even though the pictures had been exposed several days before by the British press and the web site [Link: www.worldnetdaily.com...] as fraudulent and having been derived from Balkan pornography.

It is the reason that CBS News and "60 Minutes" runs an "investigative" story critical of George Bush's National Guard service, based on "evidence" obtained from a well-known crank that could not be authenticated by CBS's own experts.

It is because the reporters wanted these stories to be true. As long as the stories shamed Americans, slandered the United States military and damaged the President, no further investigation was required. In all of these cases, and in literally dozens more, "journalistic standards," such as they are, are to be ignored if the story serves the political purposes of the author or his employers.

While the mainstream press attacks bloggers and political web sites as "partisan" and argues that they lack "journalistic standards," your stories point out that numerous newspapers, as well as the Associated Press itself, seemed completely uninterested in even the slightest bit of fact-checking of Mr. Massey's claims. One then wonders what precisely are those "journalistic standards" they claim to follow that the bloggers lack?

66 Paul  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:08:34am
...personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephone to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Viet Nam.

Whoops, did someone say Viet Nam, he meant Iraq. Thirty five years later and the media is uncritcally reporting the same lies. We've been down this road before and the Left and their MSM allies is, once again, undermining the military and a President.

67 Beagle  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:09:22am

#56 TalkinKamel

That's a great slogan! Mind if I use it? (Actually, I think everybody should use it!)


Sure. The problem is having enough factual information to put any strategy of news analysis into play. As we all know, if one reads the New York Times and nothing else it's like living on another planet.

When I heard the liar in question it seemed obvious he was embarking on a long rose-strewn parade through the Left's quite profitable fever swamps for the forseeable future. Joe Wilson is still making a mint, for another nearly identical example.

68 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:09:42am

#53 MoonbatBane

the US military found over one TON of enriched yellowcake (uranium) in Iraq? Probably from Niger?

Just a quibble:

"Yellowcake" is unprocessed (or partially processed) uranium ore. "Enriched" uranium is re-processed uranium metal with a higher content of the volatile U-235 isotope. I haven't read anywhere that Saddam had any of that, which is what the Mad Mullahs have been trying to produce under the "watchful" eyes of Muhammed ElBaradei and the IAEA.

69 BIG  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:11:17am

I think the Democrats have found their man for '08.

70 Catttt  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:11:55am

I specifically searched the Sacramento Bee. Their "opinion" piece on Sgt. Massey was a long Q & A, prefaced by comments that in effect assumed the man was being truthful. The headline was Atrocities in Iraq: 'I killed innocent people for our government' [note quotation marks].

Since this was an opinion piece, if asked, the Bee, no doubt, will say "hey - it's on the opinion page!"

Hundreds, if not more, Web sites ran this article as fact. Per Google search, 903 Web sites still are running the article. Granted, some may have run updates, but not the ones I checked, using their search engines.

The problem with some Web sites is you can't line the bottom of a birdcage with them, nor can you wrap fish in them. They just stay there.

71 Spiny Norman  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:17:52am

The Democratic Underground fever swamp's take on these startling revelations: It's a trap!

72 9Iron  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:29:23am

You think Nodrog ever gets tired of being wrong?

#3 Gordon 12/8/2004 11:42AM PST


How do you know they are lies, Charles? I will be looking forward to factual refutations of these allegations, as opposed to "they are outrageous lies because I said so."

73 Beagle  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:30:52am

#71 Spiny Norman

The Democratic Underground fever swamp's take on these startling revelations: It's a trap!


Their critical thinking skills are so poor, their political obsession so overwhelming, it actually pains me to read what they think. In their mind, because I held my nose and voted for Bush, I'm some sort of Inquisitor from Spain looking to chain women to the stove and conquer the world in my spare time.

They refer to our soldiers as "killbots." That is so insulting, and so far from the actual reality of what's going on in the world, I know they are uninformed - or completely insane. I'll give them uninformed to be charitable.

No army has ever taken so much trouble to identify proper targets and discipline those who break laws of war. There's a strong argumeng CENTCOM and DoD have gone well beyond mere justice to persecution of minor 'offenses' which are the nature of warfare.

War, by definition, involves killing, shooting, bombing, and accidental civilian death. No matter how smart the weapons get, we'll still bomb our own troops, civilians, and targets which make you go "WTF?!"

74 Catttt  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:32:55am

71 Spiny Norman

Denial is not just a river. Quite a few of those DUers are still in denial. Never mind that the five journalists with the battalion have all gone on record to deny Massey's claims.

Never mind that not one Marine or Navy corpsman has been located who corroborates the stories and that those interviewed have all denied the stories.

Never mind that like most liars caught in their own tangled webs, Massey has contradicted himself again and again.

75 TalkinKamel  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:34:50am

#67 Beagle

Uh-huh---follow the money. Always a good tactic.

76 Golem14  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:36:00am

"Maybe none of those things actually happened, but that kind of thing probably happens... or it might... so it's the same as if they did happen."

/LLL

77 VoiceInTheWilderness  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:38:57am

Funny how the media assuages their insecurity by publishing information that conforms with their world view and avoiding information that doesn't.

Can we require that media members publish their psychological profile? That would help a lot with interpreting news, especially the "fake but accurate" part which seems to be increasing of late.

The safe thing to do is avoid MSM, which is becoming conventional wisdom. The scarey thing is: what will all the out-of-work journalists do?

78 zombie  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:41:32am

Anybody remember the Winter Soldier hearings of John Kerry?

Scott Swett tells the story of a former VVAW member and participant in the Winter Soldier Investigation who has now filed an affidavit stating that John Kerry and others pressured him to give false testimony about American atrocities in Vietnam.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. I am sure that somewhere in some back room, LLL strategists said, "That whole 'US soldiers committing atrocities' gag worked GREAT in the Vietnam War. Why don't we try it again?"

Lock Massey up in Leavenworth after convicting him of sedition. Fire every reporter that repeated his lies.

79 William  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:42:51am
Why is this not treason? This man has done more damage to America than virtually anyone I can think of.


John Kerry?
 

80 Roger  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:44:06am

Jimmy Massey, for LLL Senator job! Any blue state will do.

81 ErnieG  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:47:01am
#58 schlagerman

From the Encarta® World English Dictionary, North American Edition:

treason: a violation of the allegiance owed by somebody to his or her own country, e.g. by aiding an enemy.

I'd say this definition fits Massey perfectly, especially the "aiding an enemy" part. He's done more to undermine this country than just about anyone else. When do the court proceedings begin? When will the corrections be printed in all the "news" outlets which carried this BS? I won't hold my breath.

I hear what you're saying, but the only definition of treason that counts is this one, which sets a higher standard:

THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION

Article. III.

Section. 3.

Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Treason is the only crime the Founding Fathers expressly defined in the Constitution, and for good reason. The King had used the charge of the crime of "High Treason" promiscuously to kill or imprison any perceived disloyalty among his subjects.

82 JollyFatMan  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:47:28am

Oh look,

Another John Friggin' Kerry clone. I spotted that chump for a liar the first time I heard the stories.

Anybody want to take bets on the chance of this ass hat making a run for president in say 2020 or 2024? It fits the MO to a Tee and I'll bet the Democrats will eat it up as usual.

JFM

83 Acesover8ts  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:49:08am

#43...Boortz is talking right now about the dropping circulation of virtually every major paper in the country. It's probably mostly because people read the news online, but their biased content doesn't help...

This is why we have no control of the borders and you don't read anything in the papers about it. The more people that come in to this country seeking jobs means they purchase papers to look for help wanted ads. Also the MSM is where they get their news.

Massey's interview with islamonline.com probably created thousands of insurgents. It is beyond belief how anyone can serve in the military and have your fellow soldiers give their life for yours and you turn around and give the enemy the weapon to kill your once protector. Well I guess this POS gets some type of award. I wonder if his family even claims that this vermon is from their gene pool. I sure woundn't.

Seems this cockroach applied for political asylum in Canada. Who ever said that Canada never had a purpose.

This man better pray that I dont come down with a terminally ill disease. We both will be seeing each other in Hell.

84 rw in san diego  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:50:15am

Todays journalists are all graduates of the Rather-Mapes School of Journalism. classes include: All the News That's Fit to Invent, Stagecraft Is Your Friend, Telling a Story To the Moronic Masses(It's OK, You Often Have to Lie To Get You Point Across To The Dunderheads), The World As It Should Be(And Therefore All Our Mis-and-Non-Reporting Is Justified) to name just a few. And a special seminar on WE ARE THE WORLD.

85 zombie  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:51:10am

What this guy is guilty of is SEDITION, not treason.

se·di·tion P Pronunciation Key (s-dshn)
n.
Conduct or language inciting rebellion against the authority of a state.
Insurrection; rebellion.

Treason is actively working to undermine a government; sedition is more about using WORDS to attack a country.

86 Catttt  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:51:11am

Re DU - I think their big problem comes out when people like Massey surface. DUers not only drink the Kool Aid - they are addicted to it.

A portion of them will NOT admit any wrong on their side. They insist that all their beliefs should be accepted a priori. Currently, a raging argument is going on, since a portion of them insist on starting by assuming Massey did not lie, then shooting down the sources who say he did. Since they have not taken time to gather facts, they cannot prove their arguments a posteriori, so they say things like "well, the Saint Louis paper is right-wing," which, of course, it is not.

Now that a reporter has taken the time to fact-check, the story falls apart. That proves nothing to these Duers, since they are stuck on stupid.

87 BIG  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:58:58am

Now that Massey has been exposed, do you think there is any chance the media will look into who really outed Plame? Joe Wilson!

88 schlagerman  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 7:59:06am

#81 ErnieG

You're right, the only definition that counts is the one in the US Constitution. I guess I wasn't thinking clearly enough. I let my disgust get in the way of rational thought. I believe Zombie is correct in stating it's more along the lines of sedition. But wasn't the Sedition Act repealed? I can't remember, and I don't have time to look it up here at work.

89 quark2  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 8:02:01am

@79 zombie

Good start.
I'm looking forward to the demise of all the dead tree publications. Lots of folks going to be looking for real jobs afterwards!

There is no excuse or justification of publishing stories called news without first verifying it.
The same thing happened down in NO after Katrina, seen any remorse yet?

90 3 wood  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 8:23:41am

I last saw Gordon on the French riot post. I posted to him that his presence was requested here.

91 Eggs Ackley  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 8:31:29am

I love the anagram site!

Mainstream Media = Rim me Satan, Aid me.
Aid me, I'm ant smear
Aimed in, in rams meat
I made Sir Meat Man
!

92 sms111  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 8:35:50am

Basic journalistic malpractice.

There needs to be a requirement that editors be liable for journalistic malpractice, just as doctors and lawyers are liable for malpractice in their respective disciplines.

What protects editors from class-action suits now?

93 I_Invented_Al_Gore  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 8:38:42am

Good for the St. Louis Dispatch. Perhaps they will receive some nice emails thanking them for reporting this.

Back in the day, Chicago's City News Bureau, a local wire service, was famous for training reporters. One of its editors was famous for telling newbies, "If your mother says she loves you, check it out."

Let's put that quote on a plaque and mail it...everywhere, I guess.

94 sms111  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 8:38:49am

[Link: www.stltoday.com...]


Why, exactly, do we need newspapers and TV news reports if they admit that shabby practices are "the nature of the business?"

Smith said that, unfortunately, that is the nature of the newspaper business.

"You could take any day's newspaper and probably pick out a half dozen or more stories that ought to be subjected to a more rigorous truth test," he said.

"Yes, it would have been much better if we had the other side. But all I'm saying is that this is unfortunately something that happens every day in our newspapers and with practically every story on television."

95 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 8:38:59am

If he's still in any way still attached to the reserves, isn't there something in the UCMJ to nail this guy on?

Any UCMJ experts please chime in here!

96 peggie  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 9:02:05am

when you read the above - remember that the left is supposed to be concerned about the rise in terrorism that they attribute to iraq. somehow, their actions seem to say something else. making political hay off of some guys' charges at the expense of the very same military personel you supposedly support. when it's not in ones' best interest to take a stand. when your own people sound like they're making a case for the enemy in an attempt to bolster their attempt to win power.

97 JHW  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 9:08:00am

I run into this kind of creeps all the time and make it my personal business to out and humiliate them.Ran into a ponytailed mid 30s idiot in a popular nitespot last weekend with a crowd around him being treated to his stories about Vietnam grenade wounds hurting him now.I asked him what unit he served in . Answer..Marines(Oh, of course)."No, what unit as in battalion, regiment,division,etc?"Blank stare."What was your M.O.S.?"Blank stare."You realize Vietnam was a while ago and you`d have to have been the only 3 year-old Marine in history ,don`t you?Well, I was in Vietnam for real and if you don`t shut your mouth this instance one of us isn`t going to walk away from here" The bastard turned red and slunk away, even though I`m an old guy and not particularly big.
I`m also a member of the VFW and it`s also full of poseurs. Gotta get that membership built up.About 250 members in the post and only about 7 or 8 real veterans I know of.I forced the issue on 2 phonies that were elected officers and turned out had never served in the armed forces in any capacity.These assholes make me see red faster than anything, pissing on good mens graves to inflate their pathetic egos. /Sorry for the rant but bragging like this, especially when it harms the reputation of honorably serving troopers crosses a very bad line with me.

98 scaramouche  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 9:15:59am

Why did the press swallow his story?

For the same reason it swallowed the story about the Israeli massacre at Jenin: because it wanted to believe the worst.

99 Ellen  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 9:18:57am

The press wants to believe the worst, so did Dan Rather. He got early retirement, the press has egg on its face. And I'll bet money the press won't learn a thing. Dan sure hasn't

100 I_Invented_Al_Gore  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 9:20:08am

#94 quotes (& so will I):

Smith said that, unfortunately, that is the nature of the newspaper business.
"You could take any day's newspaper and probably pick out a half dozen or more stories that ought to be subjected to a more rigorous truth test," he said.
"Yes, it would have been much better if we had the other side. But all I'm saying is that this is unfortunately something that happens every day in our newspapers and with practically every story on television."

Basic translation: We have to print these stories, b/c everyone else will print them, and we don't want to be scooped. Better to retract later--that might count as news, too!--than to hold a story and look like Johnny Come Lately.

Think of the photo of Truman holding the Chicago Tribune with the "Dewey Wins!" headline.

101 Gang of One  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 9:22:34am

I have had the honor and privelege of meeting several Marines who were in the sandbox, and one wizened old vet who survived Iwo Jima.
I cannot, for the life of me, imagine that any Marine would dishonor himself and the Corps that way.
What's up with that? But I guess even the USMC gets a few maladjusted twats, no?

102 beblebrox  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 9:24:51am

I knew that if I looked hard enought at the DU loons I'd find a Fake but Accurate quote:

44. I respect your opinion

Edited on Sun Nov-06-05 04:51 PM by daleo

I don't doubt the experiences he has had could have sent him over the edge. It is possible some of his claims are true, some are delusional exaggerations of underlying events, and some a plain made up.

On edit - It is interesting that a lot of the claims he has made correlate with actual events, although he was not necessarily present. Shooting into a crowd of protesters, if I recall correctly, is what first generated the wide spread hostility to the U.S. presence in Fallujah. There are numerous reports of civilians, including kids, being killed at checkpoints (the famous picture of the blood drenched little girl, whose family had just been shot, comes to mind). Then there is the shooting of the Italian journalist and secret service agent.

He may not be telling the truth about his own activities, but his stories are certainly based on a wider truth. It is a complicated and interesting situation, any way you look at it.

103 peggie  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 9:42:07am

lies...why, it's more important where your heart is. during the campaign, i was watching rassmus [saved by kerry] on hannity and colmes. when asked by hannity why all the charges made by kerry during his congressional tesimony [wintersoldier] could never be verified or were lies, he just said "...vietnam was a big country...". when asked about the fact that kerry had lied during his testimony, another guy said "so, he stopped the war didn't he"[or something along those lines]. facts, what stinking facts. what is it about their political platform that would have their supporters stay on board regardless while never questioning the facts.

104 Terp Mole  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 9:57:08am
Gang of One @ #101: But I guess even the USMC gets a few maladjusted twats, no?

Witness the infamous Scott "Pedophile" Ritter who's still peddles refried doom-and-gloom;

Today's the best day we're going to have in Iraq. Tomorrow's going to be worse, and the day after that's going to be even worse.
105 jaynumber13  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 10:03:43am

Massey looks like he could use a good slapping.

106 quark2  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 10:14:45am

@102 beblebrox

He may not be telling the truth about his own activities, but his stories are certainly based on a wider truth. It is a complicated and interesting situation, any way you look at it

That is sheer insanity! You have to ask what kind of rearing did this person get as a child that he cannot utilize reasoning!

107 mattm  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 10:34:04am

They wanted it to be true, so to them it was.

108 Nigella  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 10:53:12am

# 102Bebelbrox YEAH FALSE BUT ACCURATE!

109 tigger2005  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 10:53:28am

He really has that everything-I-need-to-know-I-learned-in-kindergarte n, milk-cookies-and-nap, mommy's boy look. His carefully constructed worldview, in which there are no big bad wolves (other than the U.S. military) that he needs protecting from, is being threatened. He wants to feel safe and doesn't want to be reminded that there are people out there who want to hurt him. If he doesn't think of them as his enemies, they will be his friends and play with him.

110 Dahveed  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 11:10:48am

Does anyone know if this jerk can be tried for his lies? This seems awfully subversive to me.

111 Merovign  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 11:15:41am
Jack Stokes, a spokesman for the AP, said he didn’t know why the reporters didn’t talk to Nessman, nor could he explain why the AP ran stories without seeking a response from the Marine Corps.

Ever watch a spoiled brat get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, then when asked why they were breaking the rules, they look at their feet and mumble "I don't know"?

Why tolerate this kind of behavior in adults? How about a little honesty for a change?

"We didn't question the story because it seemed to confirm what we already believed."

"We didn't check the sources because we're lazy."

Or does Jack Stokes need to be grounded, no TV or XBox for a month?

The organization also refused to allow Nessman to be interviewed for this story.

This actually pisses me off. What the hell do they think they're trying to hide? Like we don't know they screwed up? How blatantly obvious a CYA move could you do?

I honestly think the press corps is largely to blame for the radicalization of American politics, and the fact that Republicans and Democrats can't talk to each other anymore.

Everyone can have their own truths and still get along (mostly), but when everyone has their own "facts," the word "liar" has to get inserted, and when it does, the conversation stops and the fight begins.

It's sickening behavior on the part of a large percentage of the press corps and it needs to stop before we end up in a civil war over whose "facts" are right because no one can be trusted to provide the proof.

112 the_flying_pig  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 11:46:07am

Why the Lying Massey is still going by lying his ass around?!

113 Yanke Diver  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 1:31:00pm

It hurts to say this but looking at the present political situation, it seem's that the Liar's are winning. They have told their lies so many times that the Sheeple are begining to beleive them. The pole's are getting scary.

114 fmfnavydoc  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 1:50:34pm

I've been thinking about E-6 Massey and his never-ending lies about his tour in Iraq. It bothers me because I have been with the 7th Marines and have fellow Corpsmen that were assigned to 3/7 when this lying POS was with them. I'll be trying to get a hold of them to see if this clown is a real PTSD case or if he had a case of "MPH" (a term that I will not expound on in this forum).

It's obvious that he has forgotten about Honor, Courage and Committment - and what it means to be a United States Marine. My question is did he really get out on a Medical Separation, or was he a "substandard" Marine that was forced out of the Corps? What really bothers me is that he is "Momma Moonbat's" bytch right now, posting his "story" for everone to hear, and yet doesn't have the cajones to step up and say "I lied to the American public, and I disgraced the Marines and Sailors serving in Iraq". This individual is what is known as a "Blue Falcon" or buddy f***er - willing to lie and slander just to prove a BS point of view.

BTW - the video with him and "Momma Moonbat" about military recruiters - I wonder if he was less than honest with the young men and women that were looking at the Marine Corps to help them with their goals. If I was the CO of his recruiting district, I'd be checking his recruiting history out to see if he engaged in any "questionable" practices.

Dan Rather, Scott Ritter and now Jimmy Massey - indivudals that don't need to be braggng about being "Marines"

Semper Fi!

115 maxx  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 4:45:25pm

Can we please switch from msm to BMQ - Big Media Quislings?

116 Lady of Shalott (ylreveb)  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 5:48:07pm

How about plain old BM?

117 energyforcapital  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:46:30pm

massey-
WOW! Ward Churchill in mil-issued camo...

118 energyforcapital  Mon, Nov 7, 2005 6:48:26pm

117-ahem!
I meant (w)ard (c)hurchill...effing puke!


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