If it was a hoax, it'll be found out, big time.

Youve got me on this one Charles. But I wouldent put it passed the State Department.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear our state dept side with the head chopping loons and against free speech. Not a bit.

"Curiouser and curiouser..."

Probably bureaucratic three-card-monty bullshit. I Googled all three and got multiple stories in which they were cited as State Dept. spokesmen. Story sounds legit.

Just reading the names of the Foggy Bottomites makes it sound like a hoax. But, I've been known to be mistaken at times.

Its a hoax made up by left wing media. And I pointed that out on [Link: www.apostatesofislam.com...] and FFI.org forum.
I told them it is not the US--just some left wing trash saying that.

And the Associated Press says it was “Janelle Hironimus,” in a story by Qassim Abdel-Zahra

Janelle Hironimus?

You've got to be kidding me.

Sounds like the queen dhimmi just told all the drone dhimmis what to say, and the papers quoted different dhimmis.

#5 Lazarus,

If you googled the names and they came up as DOS types, then maybe the story is true.

I'll bet a dime thay all said it. Why? Once a policy statement is decided on the minions are all expected to repeat it.

Works the same in the military by the way.

JFM

Well, whaddya know: she might be a real person:

Janelle Hironimus: 67 Google hits.

Well, we know at least they weren't copying off each other.

(Warning: scary pic with the AP story. The guy has his mouth open wide! I started a bit when the page opened.)

But Janelle Hironimus, a State Department spokeswoman, said the only way to gain access to the data is to open the passport and scan the information.

[Link: www.tmcnet.com...]

Well, Kurtis is legit.

It's just confusion. If we start seeing quotes from "State Department spokesman Jack Mahogoff," then there's cause for suspicion.

Maybe the Arabists thought it was so important that they had to put their entire spokestaff on the job.

Or perhaps they felt if they said three times, it would somehow be alright. Some kinda Beetlejuice thing?

===

C'mon clock, lemme go home.

3 DOWN
NONE LEFT,
R

OT:

Italian newspapers print Mohammad cartoons

Il Corriere della Sera did the same

Agence France Presse

Reuters

Associated Press

With these three, yeah...it's probably a hoax.

All are actually there.

State Department spokesman Kurtis Cooper said, "We value the excellent cooperation we have with the government of Mexico in law enforcement and security issues."

[Link: libertypost.org...]

Well, if it is wrong, WHY THE HECK HASN"T THE STATE DEPARTMENT SAID SOMETHING YET?

I'm sorry you all had to see that. Excuse the yelling please.

No mention of it at today's official State Dept Press Briefing.

I found Kurtis Cooper!

#8 Zombie

Janelle Hironimus

'None of the attaches was or is engaged in inappropriate activities,' said Janelle Hironimus, a State Department spokeswoman

State. It figures.

#10 Gang of One

If you googled the names and they came up as DOS types, then maybe the story is true.

I believe it. It fits that State Dept. spokesmen would drone the prescribed State position and that they'd bend over for the ummah.

"The deputy secretary underscored that the situation is very dangerous and expressed concern about displaced persons on both sides of the border," said State Department spokesman Justin Higgins.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

They all three come up as State employees. They're showing a united dhimmi front, folks.

Maybe the spokesman was named "Etarucca Tub Ekaf".

/"Fake but accurate" backwards.

I'm certaily hoping it is a hoax, but it probably isn't. I fired off an email to State about how appalled I am in their lack of support for our very own 1st amendment. I got back a form letter. But now my email address is in Washington, probably filed away under: Right-wing Subversive.

Three State spokespeople on a hot topic? I have my doubts.

#29 rayra

Cowardly horseshit.

Got that right. And it'll be deadly horseshit, for us.

Even though it put me in an immediate state of denial, I thought this smelled funny when I read it. Please let it be a hoax.

It's time to make yourself heard. I was listening to msnbc this afternoon and the woman (Sue Hererra?) reported on the story. She was quick to point out that MSNBC woul not show the cartoons. I wrote celerius quand asperigi co****ur to pont out that the parent company NBC has scheduled an episode of Will and Grace for Holy Week which parodies the crucifixion. I suppose it's all right to be disrespectful of Christian symbols because we don't tend to behead those who do so.
The point is, we have to contact someone about how we feel.

I vote for "hoax." Y'all are showing just how easy it is to find these names. It's just as easy for the perpetrator of such a hoax to find similar names, then attach them as "spokesdhimmis".

#23 Because it is NOT wrong, because the DOS said it, the DOS that ultimately reports to the much-beloved (around here, not by me!) Bush. One more sign that he's just not serious about fighting a war.

I don't like to be proved right, but in 9/12, after hearing Bush say he wanted the terrorists "brought to justice," I knew we had already lost. A real president would have said he wanted the terrorists DEAD. He's not half the man that Golda Meir was.

#26 Lazarus,

I read you 5 x 5.
Intersting to see how this develops.

#21 prepka9

"We value the excellent cooperation we have with the government of Mexico in law enforcement and security issues."

Ha! So Kurtis has a track record of being able to spout b.s. on cue. Sort of the US State Dept equivalent of Baghdad Bob.

Sky news poll shows that the Brits overwhelmingly support the printing of Mo pics.

#31 father_of_10

Call us. We will bail you out. Heck, we must all be on their list, except for the nodroG, who probably is also a shill for them when he isn't trolling.

Maybe we can get pins made up saying 'Proud Right Winger'?

All three are listed on earlier stories as State Dept spokescritters.

#38 SY 2/3/2006 03:05PM PST
A real president would have said he wanted the terrorists DEAD. He's not half the man that Golda Meir was.

Golda Meir was not the POTUS and Bush is not the Prime Minister of Israel.

And Bush has seen to it that enough terrorists are dirt napping.

NY Times reports as follows:

In Washington, the Bush administration was on a tightrope, deploring the cartoon images but declaring that freedom of expression "is at the core of our democracy," as Sean McCormack, a State Department spokesman, put it. "It is something that we have shed blood and treasure around the world to defend, and we will continue to do so," he said.

So while we share the offense that Muslims have taken at these images, we at the same time vigorously defend the right of individuals to express points of view," Mr. McCormack said. "Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images, as anti-Christian images or any other religious belief."

"We have to remember and respect the deeply held beliefs of those who may be, who have different beliefs from us," Mr. McCormack said. "But it is important that we also support the rights of individuals to express their freely held views."

Okay, actually not ENOUGH. There is still work to do, granted.

Father of 10, I also emailed them on this!

Two Words: Talking Points

I really hope they did not bend over for thease animals

Waaay OT--

Anyone else curious how many women and children were found on the life boat/s found in the Red Sea today?

I'm just sayin..

Here is something we need to get the word out about...Al Queda's next vector for spreading biological or chemical warfare agents...being built by Japan:

[Link: www.defensetech.org...]

Choos
J

#43 rayra,

Three different State Department spokespeople told three separate news organizations essentially the same thing. Okay, so if it's not a "policy" can we call it a "position"?

But the big question is, who decides these things in the State Department? Does the State Department makes decisions like these independent of the Secretary of State?

From the New Duranty Times link:

So while we share the offense that Muslims have taken at these images,

We do? When did the US become an Islamic State?

"Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images, as anti-Christian images or any other religious belief."

Strange how we hear not one little peep from State when anti-Semitic or anti-Christian images are published all over the world.

Someone needs to query the White House as to whether we are officially Dhimmi or not.

#54 Dee Dee

The report said these were Egyptians working in Saudi Arabia, returning home, by car, on a car ferry.

Have jobs and driving cars? Mostly men, if not all.

...hopelessly confused?

Sounds like the State Department to me.

#59--I thought that they had said that many were coming home from the Hajj also. No?

#47 Van Impe

State playing Houdini. Twisting themselves into a pretzel.

/doublespeak gag reflex

Having jobs and driving cars:

In the Middle East = Men
In America = Men and Women

Leaving the little lady home without a car:
In the Middle East = Normal
In America = No Nookie and Divorce

#57 littleoldlady

But the big question is, who decides these things in the State Department? Does the State Department makes decisions like these independent of the Secretary of State?

Allegedly, the Secretary directs State policy, but, considering how many times White House has had to correct statements made in the Press in recent years, I suspect policy is developed by the bureaucrats and then suggested to the Secretary that it would be best to OK an already-decided issue.

We can't have the White House hijacking Foreign Policy, now can we?

When was the last time US spokesman uttered a word about virulently anti-semitic or anti-American cartoons that are a daily occurrence in Arab press!that are a daily occurrence in Arab press

Maybe it's a mantra like "the plo is the sole legitimate representive of the Palestinian people."

[Link: www.jcpa.org...]

Most likely talking points, if not, press agencies hijacking suckers at the State Department to print news they want to print.

In America = No Nookie and Divorce

So from your id name, is it safe to assume that you leave the wife a Mercedes in the driveway for her all day? ;)

Christian churches burn, people are being kidnapped and beheaded, etc, etc, etc, I could go on and on.To the msm, no biggie. Yet a few muslim cartoons and the world is ready to explode. Scary stuff!

There are four rss feeds from State (that I know of and am subscribed to) and I find no mention of this issue today, certainly nothing from the Secretary or Scott McCormack.

#57 makes = make

Terrible! My first typo ever!

/not

#61 DeeDee

You're right. Although without pulling up the report, I think they said they were guessing that some were late-returning from the hajj, they didn't know for sure

Not related to your thought, but the AP version mentioned they were likely all impoverished. The poor have cars in the US, but I would think a car owner might not meet the definition of impoverished there. Plus, they were either employed or could afford the hajj. It made me think AP added the impoverished line to jazz up the story. "Awww, all those dead people. AWWW, they were POOR people too!"

I think the US Gov't should have a national contest for the best Mohammed cartoon.

When was the last time State Department uttered a word of protest over virulently anti-semitic and anti-American cartoons
that are a daily occurrence in Arab press?!

"Three different State Department spokespeople told three separate news organizations essentially the same thing"

What does this mean?

Probably these were the first three hacks to go out and earn the money the Arabs pay them. Too bad for the rest of you guys at State but if you snooze you lose.

Thanks Silhouette,

Today's accident just got me thinking of the Titanic, and then I remembered the lifeboats all contained women and children...then I thought about how the Jordyptians value (NOT) their women, and wondered if they'd let them gurgle.

This is slightly OT, but I'm listening to H. Hewitt after reading his remarks about the Danish cartoons in which he says, "Cartoonists seeking to offend need to be defended against violence, but they don't deserve praise and certainly not praise for their gift to the jihadists."

It seems he does not understand why these cartoons were commissioned to begin with.

[Link: www.hughhewitt.com...]

No matter how ugly this episode has been there is great value in revealing islamists for what they are.

I've really gone off of Hugh.

Anti-American cartoons are one thing.

But how about this lovely cartoon from the people who bring you respect for all religions?

"These cartoons are indeed offensive to the beliefs of Muslims," State Department spokesman Phil McKraken said.

#64 Spiny Norman,

I suspect policy is developed by the bureaucrats and then suggested to the Secretary that it would be best to OK an already-decided issue.

Good grief! If that's the case, why bother electing a President and having the President choose a Secretary of State?

I'm in contact with some of my former colleagues, trying to find out if the stories are true.

I'll keep the LGF community posted, of course

#68 DeeDee

Sorry, just a minivan.

5 years ago I offered to buy her a Corvette or, is she preferred, we could try for more children. She choose children. I coulda borrowed the Corvette from her once in a while!

Now we have the tail-end of the tribe. . . twin 3 1/2 y/o girls and 1 1/2 y/o girl . . . never a dull moment.

Rayra,

You apparently don't have much to do with Public Affairs then. Public Affairs is responsible for advising the commander on what to say for a given situation, but once the commander decides what to say they are expected to repeat it as policy. I know this from having friends that worked in the office and it used to steam them to have to repeat stuff they disageed with. So, do I really need to shove a handy dandy regulation under your nose in order for you to believe this is how it works? I hope not.

JFM

Ha ha, just got another email from a jihadi, with a really cogent argument:

why dont you put you mothers naked pictures with ,,,and print them all around the world, and if your mother complaint to you just tell her this is free speches and free jurnalism. 

ibrahim oyzoyn

Uh, the Internet is completely saturated with porn already.

That's the whole point.

They just don't get it.

good cop, bad cop

Random thoughts...

There's no way the administration authorized a statement without a lot of conferencing, including a goodly amount with the Europeans.

From what (little) I've read so far, the statement "sides with" the muslims, but does not urge the American press to refrain from publishing the cartoons.

Now, with this, while their heads are all exploding (--imagine those messy, icky turbans--), they're pressured to "make nice" to the Western power "making nice" to them.

Mental picture of Bush with his arm around a sheik's shoulders -- which puts his hand in just the right place to stab him in the back.

keep 'em off balance

Charles:

just hopelessly confused

Yep. Your State Department tax dollars at work.

"These cartoons are indeed offensive to the belief of Muslims," State Department spokesman Phillip McKrevis said.

I will say this though: those here who think the State Dept. is not controlled by the President, and that what it says on major issues are not the views of the President, are seriously misguided as to the power of the Department, the views of the President, or both.

The United States has also denounced the cartoons as an unacceptable incitement to religious or ethnic hatred. State Department spokesman Justin Higgins said the "cartoons are indeed offensive to the beliefs of Muslims."

[Link: www.voanews.com...]

Pigs flying!

A long (97 messages) Democratic Underground post **supporting** the Danes:

[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]

Never thought I'd agree with Democratic Underground, and not with the Bush Administration...

H. Hewitt is also going on-and-on about the Egyptian ferry accident and requesting that an aid fund be established for the families.

For some reason he's working over-time on this.

Covered at length in today's State Dept. press briefing.

Sorry if the link is posted already, but I want to get it in before LGF goes into the ether again. :)

#49 rayra

I'm talking about your slander of Rice. The State Dept is a hive of Arabist scum, but asserting it is by the direction / leadership of Rice - horseshit. And couching your moby BDS garbage behind a smear instead of naming Rice is what makes it Cowardly.

If the DOS has its spokesmen speak on authority about State's position and the Secretary of State doesn't agree with that position, then only two things are possible: a) she's lying to the American people or b) she has no authority. You can be in denial all you like over Rice's dhimmitude. If her position isn't the State's position, then what good is she as its leader?

It's grotesque that you label the criticism of a woman who is compromising the scecurity of this good nation as "cowardly". If outrage at the cooperation with our enemies is cowardly, then may I be the biggest coward on earth.

After repeated minor sins, once Rice answered the withdrawl from Gaza by saying Israel needs to give more, that sealed the deal for me. You should take a good look at who and what you're cheering for.

And when you're reading "Atlas Shrugged", try paying attention.

LGF reader Ty points out that in three different news wire reports, the same statements are attributed to three different people.

Heh. Obviously yall have never heard that 'the United States' State Dept. speaks with one voice.'

Today's State Dept Daily Press Briefing: [under 'Europe'; scroll down 1/2 to 2/3.]

Q: Can you say anything about a U.S. response or a U.S. reaction to this uproar in Europe over the Prophet Muhammad pictures? Do you have any reaction to it? Are you concerned that the violence is going to spread and make everything just --

MR. MCCORMACK: I haven't seen any -- first of all, this is matter of fact. I haven't seen it. I have seen a lot of protests. I've seen a great deal of distress expressed by Muslims across the globe. The Muslims around the world have expressed the fact that they are outraged and that they take great offense at the images that were printed in the Danish newspaper, as well as in other newspapers around the world.

Our response is to say that while we certainly don't agree with, support, or in some cases, we condemn the views that are aired in public that are published in media organizations around the world, we, at the same time, defend the right of those individuals to express their views. For us, freedom of expression is at the core of our democracy and it is something that we have shed blood and treasure around the world to defend and we will continue to do so. That said, there are other aspects to democracy, our democracy -- democracies around the world -- and that is to promote understanding, to promote respect for minority rights, to try to appreciate the differences that may exist among us.

We believe, for example in our country, that people from different religious backgrounds, ethnic backgrounds, national backgrounds add to our strength as a country. And it is important to recognize and appreciate those differences. And it is also important to protect the rights of individuals and the media to express a point of view concerning various subjects. So while we share the offense that Muslims have taken at these images, we at the same time vigorously defend the right of individuals to express points of view. We may -- like I said, we may not agree with those points of view, we may condemn those points of view but we respect and emphasize the importance that those individuals have the right to express those points of view.

For example -- and on the particular cartoon that was published -- I know the Prime Minister of Denmark has talked about his, I know that the newspaper that originally printed it has apologized, so they have addressed this particular issue. So we would urge all parties to exercise the maximum degree of understanding, the maximum degree of tolerance when they talk about this issue. And we would urge dialogue, not violence. And that also those that might take offense at these images that have been published, when they see similar views or images that could be perceived as anti-Semitic or anti-Catholic, that they speak out with equal vigor against those images.

QUESTION: That the Muslims speak out with equal vigor when they see -- that's what you're asking?

MR. MCCORMACK: We would -- we believe that it is an important principle that peoples around the world encourage dialogue, not violence; dialogue, not misunderstanding and that when you see an image that is offensive to another particular group, to speak out against that. Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images, as anti-Christian images or any other religious belief. We have to remember and respect the deeply held beliefs of those who have different beliefs from us. But it is important that we also support the rights of individuals to express their freely held views.

Condi Rice, who certainly played a major role in crafting this statement, is an Arab lover of the worst sort. She got hysterical in arm twisting Israel to open passage between Egypt and Gaza to allow free flow of people (terrorists) and goods (weapons). Due to this policy, Gaza is rapidly turning into an al-qaida base with guns and missiles trained on Israel's population centers. Condi Rice is simply a menace. G-d save us from a Presidential race between her and Hillary.

why dont you put you mothers naked pictures with ,,,and print them all around the world, and if your mother complaint to you just tell her this is free speches and free jurnalism.

ibrahim oyzoyn

Sorry Ibrahim, we used up all the bandwidth on YOUR mother.

/see? I do get it

I call Shenanigans!

While recognizing the importance of freedom of the press and expression, department press officer Janelle Hironimus said these rights must be coupled with press responsibility.

[Link: www.chron.com...]

I coulda borrowed the Corvette from her once in a while!

See---and THAT would have lost you the Nookie. **DeeDee shakes head...I thought Father of ten 'got it'**
;)

Zombie,

Do you have to keep your email in a cage?

#84 father of ten

I coulda borrowed the Corvette from her once in a while!

So, now you can borrow the kids and they can drive you crazy.

;-D

#49 rayra

P.S. How in the hell do you read this paragraph:

CNN knows well enough that they can, and do, make the Right look bad enough without having to resort to something so obvious. Their communist peddling goes a lot farther in saying "Republicans bad!" than a big, black X on the screen.

and conclude that I've got "BDS"?

"These cartoons are indeed offensive to the belief of Muslims," State Department spokesman Kurtis Cooper said in answer to a question. "We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression but it must be coupled with press responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable."

[Link: today.reuters.com...]

#78 scooter

I agree, I think that Hewitt has become too much of a mindless cheerleader for the Republicans. Bush could announce that every Mexican citizen is to be awarded automatic US citizenship and that the US govt is going to spend $500 billion to teach every American how to speak Spanish, and Hewitt would just say, "well would you rather have a Democrat running things?"

for those interested her is the State Departments Response during the Daily Briefing given by: Sean McCormack

Daily Press Briefing
Washington, DC
February 3, 2006

QUESTION: Yes? Can you say anything about a U.S. response or a U.S. reaction to this uproar in Europe over the Prophet Muhammad pictures? Do you have any reaction to it? Are you concerned that the violence is going to spread and make everything just --

MR. MCCORMACK: I haven't seen any -- first of all, this is matter of fact. I haven't seen it. I have seen a lot of protests. I've seen a great deal of distress expressed by Muslims across the globe. The Muslims around the world have expressed the fact that they are outraged and that they take great offense at the images that were printed in the Danish newspaper, as well as in other newspapers around the world.

Our response is to say that while we certainly don't agree with, support, or in some cases, we condemn the views that are aired in public that are published in media organizations around the world, we, at the same time, defend the right of those individuals to express their views. For us, freedom of expression is at the core of our democracy and it is something that we have shed blood and treasure around the world to defend and we will continue to do so. That said, there are other aspects to democracy, our democracy -- democracies around the world -- and that is to promote understanding, to promote respect for minority rights, to try to appreciate the differences that may exist among us...

it's long answer (duh)... 1st question is about half way down the page.

It all probably legit. Any and all "State Dept. Spokemen" were probably feed the same talking points to say to the press if questioned.

I once heard that, during a Dem or Republican Party Convention, when reporters interview people on the floor, they can actually hear the question coming from interviewee, and at the same time, hear another interviewee only a few feet away given another reporter the same verbatim answer.

The State Dept? Michael Savage refers to them as the Hate Dept.

Well, as usual I am going to take a hack at this whole thing from a different angle...

1. This is not about freedom of speech, at least not anymore. Last September when these were printed it was about freedom of speech, today, it is about being able to say something without threat of a new 9-11 or a new Holocaust...that is the real offense here. If freedom of speech from the government did not exist the cartoons would not have ever appeared in the first place. No no...this is about not having another Theo Van Gough or Salman Rushtie. It is about not being murdered by decapitation for being from another religon or no religon.

2. I am glad state is not taking either side, and is stating that the cartoons are dis-ingenuous to Islam. That does not in any way justify the childish reaction of Muslims everywhere...but it might help save lives in Iraq and Afghanistan and go furthur to helping develop a future of democracy and a hope to end this religon of hate. We have to look and act to affect thing a long long way down the road.

Dutch MP, Geert Wilders has printed all the cartoons on his website: Groep Wilders betuigt steun aan Deense cartoonisten en publiceert spotprenten

He's already under death threat from the RoP, and needs a police escort, so I guess he figures it can't get much worse.

#86 Zombie

Given some of the really insane jihadi burblings I've seen posted at various websites recently, I'm beginning to think they're incapable of getting it!

These guys really sound as if they're beyond reason, logic, thinking, even intelligible speech!

Doesn't say much for their society. . .

Actually, it was mentioned in today's State Dept. daily briefing (the one I linked earlier was yesterday's, today's just came online).

MR. MCCORMACK: I haven't seen any -- first of all, this is matter of fact. I haven't seen it. I have seen a lot of protests. I've seen a great deal of distress expressed by Muslims across the globe. The Muslims around the world have expressed the fact that they are outraged and that they take great offense at the images that were printed in the Danish newspaper, as well as in other newspapers around the world.

Our response is to say that while we certainly don't agree with, support, or in some cases, we condemn the views that are aired in public that are published in media organizations around the world, we, at the same time, defend the right of those individuals to express their views. For us, freedom of expression is at the core of our democracy and it is something that we have shed blood and treasure around the world to defend and we will continue to do so. That said, there are other aspects to democracy, our democracy -- democracies around the world -- and that is to promote understanding, to promote respect for minority rights, to try to appreciate the differences that may exist among us.

We believe, for example in our country, that people from different religious backgrounds, ethnic backgrounds, national backgrounds add to our strength as a country. And it is important to recognize and appreciate those differences. And it is also important to protect the rights of individuals and the media to express a point of view concerning various subjects. So while we share the offense that Muslims have taken at these images, we at the same time vigorously defend the right of individuals to express points of view. We may -- like I said, we may not agree with those points of view, we may condemn those points of view but we respect and emphasize the importance that those individuals have the right to express those points of view.

For example -- and on the particular cartoon that was published -- I know the Prime Minister of Denmark has talked about his, I know that the newspaper that originally printed it has apologized, so they have addressed this particular issue. So we would urge all parties to exercise the maximum degree of understanding, the maximum degree of tolerance when they talk about this issue. And we would urge dialogue, not violence. And that also those that might take offense at these images that have been published, when they see similar views or images that could be perceived as anti-Semitic or anti-Catholic, that they speak out with equal vigor against those images.

QUESTION: That the Muslims speak out with equal vigor when they see -- that's what you're asking?

MR. MCCORMACK: We would -- we believe that it is an important principle that peoples around the world encourage dialogue, not violence; dialogue, not misunderstanding and that when you see an image that is offensive to another particular group, to speak out against that. Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images, as anti-Christian images or any other religious belief. We have to remember and respect the deeply held beliefs of those who have different beliefs from us. But it is important that we also support the rights of individuals to express their freely held views.

. . .

MR. MCCORMACK: I'm saying now, we find them offensive. And we certainly understand why Muslims would find these images offensive.

Transcript Here

#115 Spiritualized

And you just know that Ayaan Hirsi Ali has ordered a 24 pack of that Prophet Mo toilet paper...

prepka9

The United States has also denounced the cartoons as an unacceptable incitement to religious or ethnic hatred. State Department spokesman Justin Higgins said the "cartoons are indeed offensive to the beliefs of Muslims

That sounds like a lot of editorializing followed by a fact.

Summation of the official press briefing opinion:

They officially find the cartoons offensive, on behalf ot the Muslims, just as they would expect the Muslims to officially find similar expressions depicting Jewish or Christian elements offensive [as if - I'm laughing].

They officially understand why Muslims are ticked off and officially recognize that Muslims are outraged, distressed, yada yada, but they officially don't remember seeing any [shudder] violence.

HOWEVER - they will defend to the death the right to draw such offensive cartoons.

Wimps, says I, as I watch them dance lightly atop the razor.

A quote that is truly in diplomatese:

Our response is to say that while we certainly don't agree with, support, or in some cases, we condemn the views that are aired in public that are published in media organizations around the world, we, at the same time, defend the right of those individuals to express their views. For us, freedom of expression is at the core of our democracy and it is something that we have shed blood and treasure around the world to defend and we will continue to do so. That said, there are other aspects to democracy, our democracy -- democracies around the world -- and that is to promote understanding, to promote respect for minority rights, to try to appreciate the differences that may exist among us.

I've been reading the posts here and other sites all day regarding this issue, and I feel like there is an angle to this regarding the Department of State that has been overlooked. If you looked at the news today, you saw video of Iraqis burning and stepping on the image of the Danish flag in protest of the cartoons. If you remember correctly, we currently have 136,000 military personnel and who knows how many other Americans currently in Iraq. The US is currently working to teach the Iraqis to stand on their own feet and police and protect their own country, but they're not there yet, and it will be some time before they're ready. We are still fighting insurgents in Iraq, and people are dying there every day.

It seems to me that the US is being wisely "diplomatic" in their stance on this issue. We are making inroads with the Iraqis in giving us information about the insurgents, and we're capturing more every day. Taking a hard line against these cartoons will destroy all the positive that has taken place there. Yes, the muslim attitude to this is very foreign to our way of thinking,

Allow me to explain

When State makes a policy or releases a statement, it is the statement of the US Government.

They usually get together in one room, come up with one agreed upon statement and whatever it is, that is the single unified message.

This avoide confusion with other countries and the press.

One common voice.

It is always the voice of Arabism and rarely has anything good to say about Jews and Israel but the system functions properly; it is their orientation that is the problem.

#114 Jason

Flowers cannot grow in a bed of weeds. We are the flowers. The Moslems are the weeds. If we don't kick them all back to the Saudi Arabian desert they will eventually strangle us the way weeds strangle flowers.

#100 yehoshua

See this... We are in agreement re Condi...and Shrillery, the Suhahahaha kisser.

This is totally sickening.

Rather than stand by brave little Denmark the mighty US issues weasel words that side with the enemy, practically guaranteeing that the Danes will be violently attacked for their courage. At least the French showed some courage.

Is this truly the core of the US today? Are you incapable of understanding the concept of an enemy versus a friend?

Denmark sent troops to Iraq and this is how you repay them.

I've already given up on my own country, but I pinned a lot of hope on America. Now I am less sure than ever.

#122 hit post instead of preview - continued:

Yes, the muslim attitude to this is very foreign to our way of thinking, but if we're ever to reach a point where we can leave there in victory, the US has to pick our battles wisely.

I wonder it the news wires that carried that story verified its accuracy before publishing.

/sarc anyone?

#110 religion of bacon

Yeah, Hugh is really bleating and carrying on about the ferry accident. There are some angry callers who disagree. Of course, he's cutting them off.

Perhaps it's the events of this week with demonstrations advocating violence of cartoon, but I'm rather cool on the idea of aid.

The King of Denmark was the one European leader who stood up to Hitler by wearing a yellow star to identify with the Jews. He was the one European leader who refused to hand over his Jews to Hitler and his bravery was rewarded when the Nazis left him alone!

#124 Iron Fist

I think the neighbors are more likely to get hit by a few stray high-energy protons from the lab on any given day than to be hit with Gatling gun fire.

Personally I'd like to see prominently displayed firepower surrounding public airports, water reservoirs, etc., too.

My sources tell me the statement quoted is correct. The reason for the confusion is obvious: a bunch of officers in the public affairs section were given the same statement and points to make to their contacts.

In other words, different officers released the statement to different news reporters representing different agencies.

The result: same words, different names.

My reading of the daily press briefing leads me to note that the statements were in line with the guidance apparently given. The USG officially finds the cartoons offensive, urges restraint, but defends the right to free expression.

Our government, and Hugh Hewitt, are very much missing the point.

The high quality and consistency we expect from the MSM.

Rayra,

Well you either agreed with me, told me to F*** off or you are a dumbass. Take your pick pal. Either way your answer tells me you apparently just heard of Public Affairs.

Allow me to restate it so you can understand it better.

The DOS probably did decide to release a statement and a little digging will most likely reveal all of these people work in the public affairs department. They probably all were tasked to release the statement to their journalist contacts. SO, they can all be attributed to making the statement.

It can and does work the same way in the military public affairs branch despite what you want to believe.

Your time in the military is wonderful. Don't discount something just because you didn't see it and I did.

Notice I don't dispute your accounts about the marines? 'Nuff said.

JFM

not intending in anyway defend the Dept of State this is AFP, Reuters, and AP reporters 'summary' of what they (the reporters) said the official statement was...

it is obvious by the length of McCormack's answer the reporters may have left out a bit...

...naw they wouldn't do that now would they?

#122 windybon

We are still fighting insurgents in Iraq, and people are dying there every day.

And that's different from Saddam in power?

#128 Canuck
Well said! Keep on saying it!

#125 Yehoshua

I agree that the Muslims must either agree to join western civilization norms or leave, but that only fixes the problem temporarily...to really fix this problem for our kids and grandkids we have to continue to work in the mid-east to do what we can to promote democracy...by force if necessary. That is why we in the military call this the LONG WAR.

Perhaps the 24 hour rule should apply to most newswire stories when they are quoting someone like the State Dept...

Because there is a feeling of being manipulated to keep a story rolling.

#131 pimf "violence over cartoons"

/Time for another beer.;)

124 Iron Fist

Geeks with guns
Is almost as fun
As nuns with guns.

From State's website:
[Link: usinfo.state.gov...]

 #132

yehoshua  2/3/2006 03:52PM PST

The King of Denmark was the one European leader who stood up to Hitler by wearing a yellow star to identify with the Jews. He was the one European leader who refused to hand over his Jews to Hitler and his bravery was rewarded when the Nazis left him alone!

A very brave man.

#127 rayra

No kidding. And what about that idiot from State who was quoted as saying that the President "was trying to hijack foreign policy." When I heard that, I had to ask IS for a new keyboard as my old one was fragrant with Starsucks.

How Danish Jews were saved. It's time to remember.
http://www.auschwitz.dk/Denmark.htm

From state department's daily press briefing:

And that also those that might take offense at these images that have been published, when they see similar views or images that could be perceived as anti-Semitic or anti-Catholic, that they speak out with equal vigor against those images.

link.

State Department spokesperson Heywood Jablome was quoted as saying, "These are just seething pains between the western press and the Islamic so-called societies. We hope in the future our relationships will be mo-good, mo-better."

#132 yehoshua

The King of Denmark was the one European leader who stood up to Hitler by wearing a yellow star to identify with the Jews.

Claim: When the Germans ordered Jews in occupied Denmark to identify themselves by wearing armbands with yellow stars during World War II, King Christian X of Denmark and non-Jewish Danes thwarted the order by donning the armbands themselves.

Status: False.
[Link: www.snopes.com...]

#122 Windybon
It looks like we had the same angle on this at the same time...I agree with you.

Golda Meir was not the POTUS

Do you understand the concept of analogy?

My contempt for Bush gets greater with every PC incident like this. Unfortunately, the Republicans no longer have a Barry Goldwater as an alternative.

Our State Department is heavily staffed with left-wing appeaseniks, and has been for years. They are career civil service types who teethed on leftist dogma. State has for years been opposed to most of what is good for America.

All three of these people are listed as State Dept employees, press officers, I assume (judging by office acronyms). For Higgins and Hironimus, see State Dept Alphabetical Listing of Employees - H, for Kurtis Cooper - Alphabetical Listing of Employees - C. So yes, I find it credible that the State Department was caught with its pants down again. And now I am waiting for some State Department apologist to rise to the occasion and tell us that it is a State Department job to spit on allies conduct diplomacy. Hey, Denmark, don't like it? Independence! Independence!

Oh, and by the way, The leader of the Lebanese fundamentalist Shiite movement Hezbollah claimed that if Muslims had executed British novelist Salman Rushdie others would not dare to insult Islam. I especially like this phrase:

An Iranian charitable foundation has offered a 2.8 million dollar bounty for Rushdie's head.

#152 prep

So be it. But the actions of the Danes spoke volumes, more than any symbolic wearing of armbands could have done.

Wikipedia's current page is very comprehensive and giving the best translations I've seen on the 'toons including idioms.

After an invitation from Jyllands-Posten for around forty different artists to give their interpretation on how Muhammad may have looked, twelve different caricaturists chose to respond with a drawing each. These twelve drawings portray Muhammad in different fashions; many also comment on the surrounding self-censorship debate. In the clockwise direction of their position in the page layout:
The face of Muhammad as a part of the Islamic star and crescent symbol. His right eye the star, the crescent surrounds his beard and face.
The most controversial drawing shows Muhammad with a bomb in his turban, with a lit fuse and the Islamic creed written on the bomb.
Muhammad standing with a halo in the shape of a crescent moon.
An abstract drawing of crescent moons and Stars of David, and a poem on oppression of women "Profet! Med kuk og knald i låget som holder kvinder under åget!". In English the poem could be read as: "Prophet! daft and dumb, keeping woman under thumb"
Muhammad as a peaceful wanderer, in the desert, at sunset. There is a donkey in the background.
One shows a nervous caricaturist, shakingly drawing Muhammad while looking over his shoulder.
Two angry Muslims charge forward with sabres and bombs, while Muhammad addresses them with: "Rolig, venner, når alt kommer til alt er det jo bare en tegning lavet af en vantro sønderjyde" (loosely, "Relax guys, it's just a drawing made by some infidel South Jutlander". The reference is to a common Danish expression for a person from the middle of nowhere.)
An Asian-looking boy in front of a blackboard, pointing to the Farsi chalkings, which translate into "the editorial team of Jyllands-Posten is a bunch of reactionary provocateurs". The boy is labelled "Mohammed, Valby school, 7.A", implying that this Muhammed is a second-generation immigrant to Denmark rather than the man Muslims believe was a prophet. On his shirt is written "Fremtiden" (the future). According to the editor of Jyllands Posten, he didn't know what was written on the blackboard before it was published.
Another drawing shows an angry Muhammad with a short sabre and a black bar censoring his eyes. He is flanked by two women in niqaabs, having only their eyes visible.
Muhammad standing on a cloud, greeting dead suicide bombers with "Stop Stop vi er løbet tør for Jomfruer!" ("Stop, stop, we have run out of virgins!"), an allusion to the promised reward to martyrs.
Another shows Kåre Bluitgen, wearing a turban with the proverbial orange dropping into it, with the inscription "Publicity stunt". In his hand is a stick drawing of Muhammad. An "orange in the turban" is a Danish proverb meaning "a stroke of luck."
And in the center:
A police line-up of seven people, with the witness saying: "Hm... jeg kan ikke lige genkende ham" ("Hm... I can't really recognise him"). Not all people in the line-up are immediately identifiable. They are: (1) A generic Hippie, (2) politician Pia Kjærsgaard, (3) possibly Jesus, (4) possibly Buddha, (5) possibly Muhammad, (6) a generic Indian Guru, and (7) journalist Kåre Bluitgen, carrying a sign saying: "Kåres PR, ring og få et tilbud" ("Kåre's public relations, call and get an offer")
Not all of these drawings were wholly new, according to the chief editor of Jyllands-Posten; one or more had already been published in the newspaper at earlier dates without drawing major criticism. [citation needed]Wikipedia

I think as a whole here we are confusing the State Department with the Department of JUSTICE. State has the responsibility for maintaining ties and treaties with other countries and cultures...most importantly in the middle east where we are lucky to find any ears willing to listen to us.
If they had come out in favor of the cartoons...all hell would have broken loose...this is the government talking and they have strings attached. We need to be getting after our own bastions of free speech first for not standing in solidarity with Denmark and Norway...

#141 Amalie

I agree with the 24 hour rule. How many times have we seen information being released via the MSM only to find out later that it was not exactly accurate. It was my first thought when I heard the story.

Perhaps that is just my hope that the US would not throw their lot in with the Muslims without standing firm in it's support not only for our right to free press, but to the right of free press in all democratic societies.

Close to the border news:

Arson apparently behind fires of 5 churches in Ala. county; 3 of the churches destroyed
Feb 3, 2006
By Michael Foust
Baptist Press

Click to download Hi-Res Photo
Destroyed by fire
Flags hang over the remains of Ashby Baptist Church's building in Brierfield, Ala. The building was destroyed by fire -- apparently by arson -- early in the morning Feb. 3. Photo by Lauren Chow/The Alabama Baptist
CENTREVILLE, Ala. (BP)--Five churches, including four Southern Baptist ones, were destroyed or damaged in an Alabama county apparently by arson Thursday night and Friday morning, and a fire at a sixth church in a neighboring county is being investigated.

[Link: www.sbcbaptistpress.org...]

[German maritime attaché] Georg Duckwitz risked everything and leaked out the deportation order to a leading Danish Social Democrat, Hans Hedtoft. Hedtoft later recalled:

"I was sitting in a meeting when Duckwitz asked to see me. 'The disaster is going to take place', he said. 'All details are planned. Your poor fellow citizens are going to be deported to an unknown destination'. Duckwitz's face was white from indignation and shame .."

According to Duckwitz, 1 October was set as the zero hour and Hans Hedtoft immediately warned C.B. Henriques, the head the Jewish Community, and Dr. Marcus Melchior, the acting chief Rabbi of the Krystalgade Synagogue. They took immediate action ..

The word was passed and the Danes responded quickly, organizing a nationwide effort to smuggle the Jews by sea to neutral Sweden. Risking their own lives, the Danes dropped everything to help family members, neighbors, or friends and offered their support, conveying warnings and finding places for the Jews to hide. The Danes felt that persecution of minorities was a breach of Danish culture and they were not prepared to stand for it.

From all strata of Danish society and in all parts of the country, clergymen, civil servants, doctors, store owners, farmers, fishermen and teachers protected the Jews. A taxi driver was reported to have telephoned every person with a Jewish name he could find in the telephone directory.

The rescue of the Danish Jews is an inspiring story from a terrible time in human history. In most other Nazi-occupied countries, the Germans found it easy to deport the Jews. No one defended them the way the Danes did. Denmark was also different and special in another way. Almost everywhere else in Europe, returning Jews found their homes had been broken into, and everything of value stolen. When the Danish Jews returned, they discovered that their homes, pets, gardens and personal belongings were cared for by their neighbors.

Almost the entire Jewish population of Denmark was rescued and survived the war years, mostly in neutral Sweden and a few hundred in Theresienstadt under the distant but constantly protective concern of the Danes.

After the war Georg Duckwitz served as Germany's Ambassador to Denmark. He has been recognized by numerous Jewish organizations. In 1971, he was honored at Yad Vashem for his efforts to assist the Danish Jews in escaping to Sweden.

Source: [Link: www.shoah.dk...]

#151 rayra 2/3/2006 04:00PM PST

"Gotta run, windshield repair guy is here. Be back later."

(the din ceases, dust settles, cautious heads peep out of foxholes to see -- every last pixel of LGF littered with gattling gun rounds...)

161 Mtnester

It is a very mixed message from the State Department... where does the State Department get off criticizing cartoons in a newspaper and better yet, in another country?

#158 yehoshua

So be it. But the actions of the Danes spoke volumes, more than any symbolic wearing of armbands could have done.

Brother we are on the same page. As my philosopher says: "truth will make you free" JOHN 8:31-32
[Link: www.believers.org...]

Someone needs to design a Muslim Rage-O-Meter...

As the rage intensifies...

And a Seethemometer too.

#164 Victor,

Nobody said there were foxholes! LoL.

Ah, too dumb to use one anyway.

JFM

Just as a matter of understanding the DOS is not in the habit of commenting on domestically produced art no matter how distastefully done or presented...

especially when it is funded by the national endowment for the arts and US tax payer money is used to fund the artist...

#149 rayra

Your f'n reading comprehension sucks ass. I'm damning the method / form of your criticism, not the criticism itself. I just criticised Bush / Rice myself earlier today.
My point is that Rice not the originator of this garbage as some so readily believe.

My reading comprehension is just fine. Okay, so let's assume that this position didn't start at the top. I'd actually buy that all day -- that she wasn't the first official to formulate the position and then pass it down through the department. Fine. First of all, when I used the queen-drone metaphor, I didn't have Rice specifically in mind as the queen. I was actually just thinking of some department head who has spokesmen drones under him.

But even that doesn't let Rice off the hook. If she doesn't agree with that position (it's on the DOS web site, for chrissakes!), then she could at least say that she doesn't agree with it. Yeah, I won't hold my breath waiting for a cabinet head to say their department is full of seditious shit.

You say she has no authority. It seems funny that the first person we send overseas to represent U.S. policy towards foreign nations "has no authority". I don't buy it. Furthermore, if you are right, then anyone with even a molecule of integrity would scream from the rooftops, "My job is a fraud. No one listens to me. The DOS is out to undermine America and there's not a damn thing I can do about, even though I purportedly run the place." Instead, you're telling me that she is going along to get along, and that that warrants her pardon. No fucking way. This isn't a game. Lives are at stake, and those who treat it as a game need to go.

And since you brought up Hank Rearden, it should be clear to you the tug-of-war going that is going on with his values. I am going to give you a spoiler, so that you aren't under any illusions: Rearden chooses his allies real soon, and it isn't the corrupted system. He helps smash it. He is a hero. A man of moral courage. And he wins.

First question:

QUESTION: Yes? Can you say anything about a U.S. response or a U.S. reaction to this uproar in Europe over the Prophet Muhammad pictures?

MR. MCCORMACK: I haven't seen any -- first of all, this is matter of fact. I haven't seen it. I have seen a lot of protests

Later question:

QUESTION: Well, no you said that you understand that the Muslims found them offensive, but --

MR. MCCORMACK: I'm saying now, we find them offensive. And we certainly understand why Muslims would find these images offensive.

He hasn't see any but he finds them offensive.
What does he mean by we?
On or off the reservation?
His responses were reasonable to me up until that point.

So what has Hillary said?

Need to know...

Don't know if anyone's posted what the Britsh Counterpart has said-

British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw criticized European media outlets for republishing the caricatures as demonstrators prepared to take to the streets of London.

Via Fox, last paragraph

When your administration thinks it must publicly side with the enemy on the right of freedom of expression, you know that Bush's war strategy has undermined its own moral and intellectual authority.

The only good thing about this happening now is that the Iranian catastrophe is going to blow everything wide open: no individual or nation will be able to equivocate on the global war with Islam after the attack on Iran.

And if there is no attack on Iran, Iran will bring total war to the West in the near future.

The mooslim world will then compel the West to fight to the death.

MR. MCCORMACK: I'm saying now, we find them offensive. And we certainly understand why Muslims would find these images offensive.

as McCormack is the DOS press spokesman...

he formulated the response then and there, that is the official statement until he is later corrected, which hasn't happened so far...

This is just getting too surreal. Kåre Bluitgen as Gavrilo Princip? Oh well, I guess better with a cartoon than a gun. More fun than poking a hole in an old aristocrat is poking holes in the confidence of the most fragile prophet. We live in very interesting times.

It's as if they think they are dealing with patients who are certifiably insane..

but there is no INSANE ASYLUM big enough to hold them all.

If US officials think talking nice to Moslems about cartoons is going to make Moslems one tiny bit nicer towards US,
they are sadly mistaken.

In fact, the opposite is true. Were US to
stand behind freedom of press and tell Moslems to live with it, US would gain more respect from its enemies.

When you are dealing with a bully and a liar,
you talk tough, not nice.

You know, maybe this sweet talk from the State Department is KEEPING OUR TROOPS SAFE.

178 yehoshua

And you do not bow down to thugs...

#177 Amalie:

A border fence around Mecca would be a decent start.

179 W-Lover

This is could be true, W-Luv...

Have to calm myself down and look at other angles..

#180 Amalie

Amen!

MR. MCCORMACK: We would — we believe that it is an important principle that peoples around the world encourage dialogue, not violence; dialogue, not misunderstanding and that when you see an image that is offensive to another particular group, to speak out against that. Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images, as anti-Christian images or any other religious belief. We have to remember and respect the deeply held beliefs of those who have different beliefs from us. But it is important that we also support the rights of individuals to express their freely held views.

Yep, this must be diplospeak that really means: We are selling the US out, we are kissing muslim ass, and we will be heartily glad when all the Jews and Christians disappear off the face of the Earth.

Right.

#179 W

This sweet talk endangers our troops because it portrays us as a bunch of weaklings.

 
#177

Amalie  2/3/2006 04:31PM PST
It's as if they think they are dealing with patients who are certifiably insane..

but there is no INSANE ASYLUM big enough to hold them all.

#181

gus3  2/3/2006 04:37PM PST

#177 Amalie:

A border fence around Mecca would be a decent start.

Yes, it would!

The questions from that press briefing tell you a lot:

the Muslims speak out with equal vigor

So calling for the execution of cartoonists is "speaking out with vigor?"

One word is puzzling me in this, Sean, and that’s the use of the word “unacceptable” and “not acceptable,” exactly what that implies. I mean, it’s not quite obvious that you find the images offensive. When you say “unacceptable,” it applies some sort of action against the people who perpetrate those images.

Note the typical lefty mindset: if something is unacceptable, that means action must be taken against it. For example, I find the KKK's beliefs to be unacceptable, but I think they have a right to their beliefs and expressing them, no matter how brain-dead they are. I find Piss Christ to be unacceptable, but I support the "artist's" right to "express" himself however stupidly he wishes. But to a liberal, or to most Muslims, something which offends them is not only offensive, but the government must stop it. One more time, kiddies: there is no right to not be offended, at least not in the US.

#179 Dubluv

If it is true that what the DOS released today may be keeping our troop safer, what a terrible position we are in.

We need to show weakeness to our enemy in order to keep our troops safe? I dispair at the thought. We know from past experience that this enemy exploits every weakness they perceive in us. How do we walk the fine line, then, of keeping our troops safe and also showing our enemy that we will give them no quarter?

We need a spine transplant at the State Department.

STAT

The so-called Q&A dialogue is just another example of the stupidity of reporters in general and that reporter specifically. Also, now it's clear why Q&A transcripts never identify the questioner reporter, it's to protect the stupid, to hide that identity from public view! May God protect the press from public criticism!

Additionally, what's not clear is what the State Department's views really are since the responder did an outstanding job of obfuscating the State's position!

#188 MT
#189 Amalie

Props to both of you!

#189 Amalie

LOL - You are definitely in the medical profession and I couldn't agree with you more!

#129 windybon

but if we're ever to reach a point where we can leave there in victory

You seem to think that is our goal. It isn't. One of the reasons that we defeated Iraq was for the power that bases in the middle of the Mideast gives us.

We aren't leaving Iraq and it will not be the last war we have fight in that area.

Had a quick bit of lame fun in Photoshop:

Boycott!

Free!

If we are so afraid for the safety of our soldiers that we defer to raging muslims screaming for blood over a cartoon, maybe we should rethink our strategy. I suspect that mockery is a devastating weapon against totalitarian belief systems. Remember Charlie Chaplin as Hitler?

#179 dub luv:

Let me remind you of Viet Nam, lost by Walter Crank-height and his "the war is lost" report.

Let me remind you of Rwanda, exploited by Mo-Slims all over Africa and the Middle East.

Don't even think of going there (unless you simply forgot a /sarc tag).

#188 MTNester

How do we walk the fine line, then, of keeping our troops safe and also showing our enemy that we will give them no quarter?

You don't compromise between food and poison. You throw the poison in the garbage and burn the garbage. Only then can you really enjoy the food.

Howdy
I spent the entire class period in my Euro class discussing this same issue. I xeroxed a packet of news articles relating to this issue, and distributed them to my kids. They reacted beautifully. Fully understanding the concepts of freedom of speech, thought, press, and religion, they came up with some very perceptive statements. Several announced that they would purchase Legos, cheese, hams, and other Danish products. Indeed, I am proud.

I feel a little sorry for both Ms. Rice and Pres. Bush. They're busily trying to avert Armageddon, Ahmadingbat is trying to start Armageddon, and the press wants to ask them questions about cartoons.

#198 St. Pancake

Kudos to your students! It gives me great hope that they are able to identify what is happening here. What grade are they?

Sarah D.

Lota hyperbole goin on around hea, not to mention misconstruein.

As I said, State's statements, as I read them, seemed to be a reasonable response, with a lot of editorializing by the press.

Just wish McCormick had not made that last remark.

I e-mailed State early this morning to discuss their Muslim sympathies. As I remember it is Denmark that is our ally, not Mohamed and his cultists believe the Constitution forbids such an arrangement.

Typical response from the striped pants/cookie pusher crowd at the DOS. They kissed Commie butt since 1946 and have now switched to the Islamofascists. What a bunch of jell-o spined idiots. Oh, and a hearty thank you to our fighting men and women who carry on in spite of being undercut by these lickspittle toadies.

I'm just putting out a theory.

And I'm hopeful that these protests will open some eyes in Europe. This isn't because a yout got shot like in Riots of Paristine. It's a f*cking cartoon.

#122 windybon 2/3/2006 03:45PM PST

As everyone here who has ever carried on a dialogue with muslims (myself included) will tell you, every part of their thought process is foreign to our way of thinking. There are very few things that we can understand of the way they think, by thinking in our terms. Their terms and position are much different than ours. Their hatred goes back a more than a thousand years, in fact many are still pissed that the tribal system was broken up. Trying to see their thought process is like trying to understand the thought process of a mongolian invader.

yehoshua

The danish government and the danish people didn´t know, but the rescue of the about 500 danish jews costed the lifes of about 8000 to 10000 other jews, who were sent from Theresienstadt to Auschwitz and nearly none of them survived.

Did you ever here about: "The Fuhrer Gives a City to the Jews"?

When the danish government insisted to visit "their" jews in Theresienstadt, the Nazi saw their chance to show how well the jews are treated. But Theresienstadt was over-and overpopulated and so the Nazis sent the supernumerous jews to Auschwitz. It´s a very sad story and shows the unbelievable perfidy of the Nazis.

#160 Jason

I think as a whole here we are confusing the State Department with the Department of JUSTICE. State has the responsibility for maintaining ties and treaties with other countries and cultures...most importantly in the middle east where we are lucky to find any ears willing to listen to us.
If they had come out in favor of the cartoons...all hell would have broken loose...this is the government talking and they have strings attached. We need to be getting after our own bastions of free speech first for not standing in solidarity with Denmark and Norway...

EXACTLY. Making the kind of comments that the reporters were trying to elicit is rather outside of State's purview.

MTNester

Primarily Seniors. They are going to graduate, and I am trying like I have never before to force them to understand their basic values before they head off to university. I worry like never before that they will end up in some damnable college where PC rules the day, and Saudi money has financed a propraganda campaign.

#201 easy

Do you not see that we have exposed an area of weakness for the Muslims to exploit? They will totally ignore the part of the statement that affirms free speech and see our acknowledgement of their outrage at the cartoons as a weakness in us.

Does anyone remember Mr. Lubner (Sp?) played by Bill Murray on SNL?

He had no spine.

yehoshua, prepka, et al.

If you are not already aware of it, there is at least one other European country that behaved nobly and saved Jews from Hitler: Bulgaria. Check out Beyond Hitler's Grasp

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

It's a great read.

St Pancake

Good on you... you sound like a wonderful teacher who connects with her class.

@195 thinkingmom

Last week on AMC there was a good program in which Charlie Chaplin was one of the very few, actually the only big named star at the time, to call a spade a spade. That's when he made that famous movie( parody) of Hitler.
America was very much isolationist at that time, until we got our asses punched at Pearl Harbour.

OT

Wish Mike C. was here to comment, or anyone else who understands the industry. I remember talking about this before with him and others why it is follish to boycott Citgo.

U.S. Religious Group Boycotts Venezuelan Oil
A conservative religious group is calling on the United States to shun gas stations controlled by Venezuela because of the criticism the country's leader has shown towards President Bush and U.S. policy.

The American Family Association (AFA) denounced Venezuela's president Hugo Chávez, who has criticized the U.S.'s "imperialist aggression," according to Reuters News Service. The boycott is aimed at stations selling gas by Citgo, a Houston-based U.S. refining and marketing branch of Venezuela's national oil company, PDVSA.

"It doesn't make sense to purchase gasoline from a country that wants to bring down the U.S. government," AFA president, Donald Wildmon, told Reuters.

The story cited a Citgo source stating that the company received 37,000 e-mails from people refusing to buy gas at 14,000 U.S. Citgo stations. The call for a boycott follows one by liberal organizations that encouraged Americans to buy gas in support of Chávez.

Venezuela ranks among the top five oil exporters to the United States. Chávez has not been shy in donating low-cost heating oil to the poor in the United States.

#202 Pat

I e-mailed State early this morning to discuss their Muslim sympathies. As I remember it is Denmark that is our ally, not Mohamed and his cultists believe the Constitution forbids such an arrangement.

Their "job" is to be neutral. Behind closed doors, though, I imagine that they're laughing their a**es off because these lil' demonstrations of hyperbolical excess do a lot more to demonstrate the violent nature of Islam than any sotto voce warning from the US of A.

Mist - it must be "hear" of course ;-)

#208 St. Pancake

Well, all I can say is you have given them a good foundation. Perhaps when they go to college they will have the courage to question what they hear and also the courage to make up their own minds.

Thank you.

#201 easy

No, I think most really do want Condi to blow them.

Amalie

TY, and I remember Mr. Luebner. He was wonderful! Was it not Bill Murray that portrayed him?

#201 Easy

Lota hyperbole goin on around hea, not to mention misconstruein.

As I said, State's statements, as I read them, seemed to be a reasonable response, with a lot of editorializing by the press.

Just wish McCormick had not made that last remark.

I'll try for laconic this time.

Eeeeyup.

Still gettin' thunderstorms up heah, Sarah. You?

WOT and Illegal Immigration News

I will abbreviate this news. Actually it is from a subscription site, so I cannot do a linky.
States and cities are taking on the role of policing undocumented immigrants since the federal government has yet to make a decision about them.

According to The Wall Street Journal, Alabama state trooper Gary Hetzel usually stops people for going over the speed limit. Now, he sometimes arrests them for illegally crossing over the U.S. border too.

Arresting undocumented immigrants normally is the job of federal immigration agents, but states and cities are increasingly taking on the duty of verifying the immigration status of people stopped for traffic violations.

Forty-four of the 650 state troopers in Alabama, which includes administrative and field officers, have taken the five-week training course and now are authorized to enforce federal immigration law, since they entered a special partnership in 2003 with the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) unit of Homeland Security. They are trained to detect false identification and understand the details of federal immigration law as well as the pitfalls of racial profiling and other possible civil-rights violations.

The federal program to train local police officers (subscription required) to catch undocumented immigrants has existed since 1996, and Florida was the first state to sign up in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. They tailored their own version to help block possible terrorist infiltrators. Since the controversy over immigration has heated up, several states in New England and the Midwest have contacted ICE about immigration training.

However, just because more cities and states are interested in signing up doesn't mean everybody is happy with the decision. The city council of Costa Mesa, Calif., became the latest city to decide to enter the ICE program. But many are concerned about civil-liberties issues that may arise as a result.

Some critics argue that federal authorities are specialists and therefore better suited to handling specific tasks such as immigration enforcement. Lisa Navarrete, vice president of the National Council of La Raza (NCLR), the largest Latino advocacy group in the United States, says that local police officers who enforce immigration law are bound to engage in racial profiling, in part because they are stopping people they meet during the course of the day instead of pursuing specific investigations based on solid leads.

St Pancake

I think Bill Murray played "Mr. Luebner." He was married and had a kid who was embarrassed... perpetually embarrassed by the Dad.

lol

#222 Swampwoman

You're getting thunderstorms and we're getting COLD. Wish it was warm enough here to have a thunderstorm. LOL

#222 SwampWoman

Pond is full and water line is getting closer. Looks like the pumps are starting to handle some of it though.

Need to go back out and check, thanks for reminding me.

#223 St. Pancake

Arresting undocumented immigrants normally is the job of federal immigration agents, but states and cities are increasingly taking on the duty of verifying the immigration status of people stopped for traffic violations.

I seem to recall lots of cities screamin' and threatenin' because the Feds WERE tryin' to do a crackdown on illegal immigrants a lil' while back.

It will HAVE to be done on the state and local level, folks, with backup from the Feds.

#209 MTnester

They might, being delusional and all, but the words, as spoken by McCormick, seemed a reasonable response.

He emphasized our commitment to free speech at least a couple of times, even mentioned we have spent lives and fortune to defend it, as I recall.

I don't think anyone can misconstrue our actions.

Hate to be simplistic but State has to walk a fine line at times.

#204 W-lover

Italy not backing down. Yet.

L'opinione 2/4/06

#229 easy

It's the fine line that worries me. I just hope that the Muslims got the message. It sounded more to me like a warning to our press not to publish these cartoons. In spite of the affirmation of free speech.

Yeah, Swampy. Does it appear attitudes have changed?

Someone may have already done this, but I googled all the names and they are Foggy Bottom mouthpieces...

# 215 St. Pancake

Mostly because there is no way to tell where the gasoline at a station, or the oil from which it was refined, actually came from. Citgo refines oil from sources other than Venezuela, other refiners refine Venezuelan oil, and even branded gas stations do not necessarily obtain their gas from refineries operated by the same brand. It's kind of like say you won't wear jewelry made from S. African gold. Exactly how in hell could you tell ?

We believe, for example in our country, that people from different religious backgrounds, ethnic backgrounds, national backgrounds add to our strength as a country. And it is important to recognize and appreciate those differences. And it is also important to protect the rights of individuals and the media to express a point of view concerning various subjects. So while we share the offense that Muslims have taken at these images, we at the same time vigorously defend the right of individuals to express points of view. We may — like I said, we may not agree with those points of view, we may condemn those points of view but we respect and emphasize the importance that those individuals have the right to express those points of view.

To me, this states pretty clearly that they "vigorously defend" our right, and the media's right to print and say whatever the hell we want about Mo.

LOL, If I had just read two more posts. In the immortal words of Roseanne Rosannadanna: "Never mind"...

Swampwoman

Laconic. I like it.

#210 Amalie
Way OT
I think Bill Murray was Todd, Gildna Radner was Lisa Loopner and Jane Curtain was Mrs. Loopner.

And I can't remember what I had for lunch, what does that mean?

#235 Sarah D.

I could be a bit paranoid. I'm just so concerned that we, as a country, are not paying attention enough to the threat.

Mike
Thanks, I knew something was said about this before. I have saved this info in a Word Document.

Don't know if it was posted yet, but Israel is hitting the Shia in Lebanon pretty hard.

re: #223-

Speaking of illegal immigration, has anyone heard anything new on those 5 wacky Iraqis trying to sneak into the US through Mexico?

Is today Friday?

Well, time to take a bath (in the toilet) and cut some heads off.

Well we can be sure no American newspaper or TV network will display these cartoons. They have enough problems already. But for the bogosphere it is always open season.

I think all this furor over cartoons will not endear Muslims to many. The worst of Islam has already reared it's head...now the rabble are exposing their true colors for all the world to see. Mohammed cannot be pleased that his followers have become insane.

Marcus

What annoys me (putting in mildly) about this whole cartoon affair is that most of the stories and commentators do not include the origins of this saga:

How it all began:

On September 30, 2005, the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published twelve caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed. These had been commissioned by the culture editor Flemming Rose, after he learned that the children's book author Kare Bluitgen had been unable to find an illustrator for his new book project: the life of the prophet Mohammed, as told for children. "He wanted to see how deep the self-censorship in Denmark lies," today's Zeit quotes Rose as saying in a detailed background article. Muslim organisations protested against the caricatures and organised a trip through Arab countries to show the pictures abroad and gain support for their cause. But in addition to the "twelve incriminating caricatures from Jyllands-Posten (...) additional blasphemous drawings, much more insulting and tasteless whose origins are unknown" were also being shown around, as Spiegel Online reported yesterday. Kaare Quist, journalist at Ekstra Bladet, explained to Spiegel Online, that "in the file, there are caricatures in which, for example, the prophet is depicted as a paedophile and a pig or a praying Muslim is being raped by a dog."
[Link: www.welt.de...]

That's just for starters. There are more references.

Just fired off a polite email to Hugh Hewitt expressing my dismay with his lack of research and understanding about this matter and signed off as "A former listener"

/enough already!

#243 jlfintx

It's good to know someone is concerned with hygiene.

Additional Nagin info. from the same site.
John McCann, a columnist for the Herald-Sun Times in Durham, N.C., was not so much bothered by Nagin's comments on God as he was disturbed by Nagin's claim to know what God is thinking. McCann told NPR that he could understand the sentiments behind Nagin's speech, especially considering that he was talking to a displaced black audience on MLK Day near Bourbon Street. However, McCann can't identify with the absurdity of Nagin's statement that God would send a hurricane because God was angry at the United States. "If God was really angry he would have sent 15 Hurricane Katrinas," he said. "So maybe what Nagin meant to say was, 'God was just a little disappointed.'"

McCann argues that we should be able to pardon Nagin's comments, especially in light of the Israelis being able to forgive Pat Robertson for his criticism of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

McCann believes that God would want a city that practices democracy and fairness, one that is secure and safe, and of course, an example for the rest of the United States that civil rights is for "chocolate folks, vanilla ones, caramel souls, and all shades in between."

#239 MTNester

Well, we've taken out Saddam, we've freed Afghanistan, we're dealing with Iran. Lybia has caved, Syria has pulled out of Lebanon. I think our government is looking at all the important issues, very closely indeed.

To me the cartoon fiasco is a non-issue as far as it being a "State" issue anyway. Let them show their true faces, let them rant, rave, and froth.

Sane people across the globe are looking at these idiots and getting fed up with their theatrics. This can only be a positive thing.

#202 Pat: "I e-mailed State early this morning to discuss their Muslim sympathies. As I remember it is Denmark that is our ally, not Mohamed and his cultists believe the Constitution forbids such an arrangement."

Swampwoman: "Their "job" is to be neutral."

No it ain't--the State Department's job is to defend the US and its laws, culture, and national security in its relations with foreign nations.

Where did you come up with this bullshit about the US Government being neutral?

have to get dinner on the table. Wish I could stay and chat. Good evening, everyone!

I am not too angered that the State Dept is trying to finesse the response to this cartoon issue. We are starting to make progress with the [bigoted word]s, we don't really need this hot potato right now. Maybe it's good we aren't involved for awhile since it's about time to let Europe stand up to crazed Islamofaschists and let them show their backbone for a change. We have been doing that virtually alone for the last 4 years. When push comes to shove, there is no question who we would back when it counted.

#231 MTnester

It sounded more to me like a warning to our press not to publish these cartoons.

As someone else said earlier, that would end up being an application of reverse psychology, intentional or not.

I certainly share your concerns. I wish they hand not been so understanding in the end. Could have left the impression we were agreeing instead of understanding. Maybe we will get a clarification.

#249 The Bruce

No it ain't--the State Department's job is to defend the US and its laws, culture, and national security in its relations with foreign nations.

So, it would be helpful to all the things you mentioned for the State Department to give a press release telling islamics to go screw a pig?

The following quote from State appears to me that State has some problems with a free press, unless Western Civ is the target:

"We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression but it must be coupled with press responsibility," Higgins told AFP.

"Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable. We call for tolerance and respect for all communities and for their religious beliefs and practices."

The State Dept charter explicitly calls for it to protect the interest of the US.Higgins is calling for self censorship of the Western press so as not to offend an active enemy of this country.

#253 Sarah

So, it would be helpful to all the things you mentioned for the State Department to give a press release telling islamics to go screw a pig

That really struck me as incredibly funny. With a good dose of smartass. I like that. And that is why I don't work at the State Department...I would.

I think our government needs some time to figure out how this brouhaha fits into our long term strategy. It's not like we knew this was going to happen. We are juggling alot of balls in the air, I think this one needs some thought as to how to handle it. I don't necessary think it's wise for US (since we really aren't involved) to tell Muslims to go screw a pig...not just yet anyway. We have a bigger picture to keep in mind and have to see how this plays out a little.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but is it not correct that no North American paper has published the said cartoons?

None.

Are we afriad of something?

Don't tell me the Froggistanis have more cojones than the Americans.

#252 easy

As someone else said earlier, that would end up being an application of reverse psychology, intentional or not.

Finally, the millions of snarky, smartass 20-somethings can do something useful to help their country. Just tell them, "do not make fun of Mohammed, and for heaven's sake, never, ever do any Photoshops involving jihadis having sex with goats. If you do, the US government will track down the files and delete them from the internet."

Within a short period of time, web sites and P2P networks will be chock full of terabytes of Photoshops depicting Prophet Mo in ways that will make the current batch of cartoons look like a loving tribute to the glories of Islam.

Other news stories name the State Department Spokesman as:
"Jacques Strap"
"Oliver Clothesoff"
"Seymour Butts"
"Mike Rotchl"

# 257 w r

IIRC, Fox News did **show** some of the cartoons -- can that count?

I think we all need to take a deep breath and consider the Administration's point on this. Really, what good is done by antagonizing 100s of millions of people with some mean-spirited drawings? Let's all take a page from President Bush and his administartion. We CAN balance free speech with respect for religion, be it Christianity or Islam! It's not an all-or-nothing world. After all, we need to live with the Arabs, our energy needs dsepend on it!. Seems like a fair trade for some minor restriction on "free" speech. Can't yell fire in a crowded theater you know!

# 259 C

My favorite is "Hugh Jass"

:-)

257- whiterasta

Are we afriad of something?

What exactly would be the upside of us piling on right now? Let's see how the Euros play this first. Especially since it's THEY who have the population problem and need to address that reality. We are not in the same situation as they are. We have to think strategically, not emotionally. There is no upside for us to print those right now. That's just throwing gasoline on the fire for little reward.

One of the best things about this blog is that folks can come here and get up on their hind legs and roar and snort and slaver and slobber and piss and moan about how by golly if they were in charge them musty mussulmen would be put in their rightful place, and pretty damn quickly, too.

They just overlook one tiny thing. They ain't in charge. And chances of them being voted into a position of being in charge are about equal to the possibility of me waking up tommorrow morning to find (insert sex goddess of your choice here) hoovering my johnson.

And I wonder why?

#256 Stuck-in-CA
Of course you don't tell them to screw a pig. You tell them that their cultural and religious practices will be examined in light of our traditions, laws , the Constitution and criticised accordingly. If they find this offensive, so be it. Adios. So long. Don't let the door hit your burga on the way out.

@247 St.Pancake

So who is pissed off upstairs at NO now? They got hit by tornados this week.

#261 visitorstay 2/3/2006 05:49PM PST

Those that trade a little freedom for a little security deserve neither freedom or security.

/B.Franklin

Islam is a cult. End of case.

#255 taterhead

Heck, me either. I'm no diplomat, that's for sure.

I'll leave that to those who are good at it.

quark2

Lol, your guess is as good as mine.

# 229 easy

I disagree. The State guy is speaking from both sides of his mealy mouth. It's either free speech or "unacceptable." You can't have it both ways. "Unacceptable" means some form of expression can't be accepted, which means it's not free to express itself, which means, ultimately, that it should have been, or has to be, rejected. In the context of a government agency, rejection means the last step before prohibition.

Yeah, I know this is politics, and the government people have to be cautious and tread lightly.
Still-we are at a crossroads in our civilization, and anything less than a strong, uncompromising reaffirmation of our values will end up in disaster.

Besides, I wonder what kind of person is willing to do a job like these "spokespersons,"
mouthing a script, the party line, knowing they are mere tokens in a political game.
What amount of money or golf trips or vacation homes or power fantasies buys that crap, that dishonesty? We're not talking people acting out of fear, like in communism, when people feared the Gulag.
Maybe I've been naive all along. Maybe losing your job with the State/Justice/Homeland Security/etc. Department is tantamount to being sent to the Gulag.
What a rude awakening for real Gulag survivors.

I say nuke Mecca now. Muslims will understand.

Now, this is weird. Not sure if we should issue a Fatwa, but here it is.

Starving Kenyan woman places curse on God
27 January 2006

NAIROBI: A starving Kenyan woman placed a powerful tribal curse on God, accusing him of sending famine, and died in her sleep, local newspapers said.

The woman from eastern Kenya's drought-ravaged Kangundo district decided to invoke a dreaded oath from the Kamba community, famed for its potent witchcraft, media reports said.

"Whoever brought this famine, let him perish," the woman chanted, striking a cooking pot with a stick.

"She accomplished the feat at 10am and waited for the results, but God's wrath struck at night. She died peacefully in her sleep," the Kenya Times newspaper said.

265- Pat

Yes, true. But I think the [bigoted word]s are getting that message from what is already going on over there. They were already told to go screw a pig from those cartoons (and I am GLAD for that), and I think every European news agency should print them. But what's in it for US? We are over here trying to teach the [bigoted word]s a whole different lesson about democracy and freedom, and yadda yadda. So why get off message?
Let the Euros teach them something new about FREEDOM...that Muslims don't have the right to never getting offended, especially when they are SO OFFENSIVE THEMSELVES.

Let Europe carry the fucking water for a change. Let THEM do something for themselves for once.

#257 whiterasta

Are we afriad of something?

Don't tell me the Froggistanis have more cojones than the Americans.

Uh, who is this "we" you refer to? Do you own a newspaper?

Newspapers are private businesses. They are in business to make a profit. Decisions are made every day as to what does and does not constitute news.

Apparently a bunch of Muslims goin' batshit over cartoons doesn't fulfil their criteria of "news". Decisions like that seem to be why they're losing market share/readers. If the public feels that traditional news media is not covering news adequately they will find alternatives which in this case seems to be the internet.

264 rajorbacker

They just overlook one tiny thing. They ain't in charge. And chances of them being voted into a position of being in charge are about equal to the possibility of me waking up tommorrow morning to find (insert sex goddess of your choice here) hoovering my johnson.

And I wonder why?

I wonder why too!

:D

@261 visitorstay

Don't you ever get tired of playing the moby?

***NEWS FLASH PEOPLE***

The day those towers fell began the war of civilzations. The pace it proceeds at is a direct result of PC, the MSM and the will of the western leaders. These cartoons are nothing more than a scene in the play. The chess game began on 9/11. To have a war, both sides must be engaged. They engaged us with the barracks bombing in Beriut. We ignored their moves as a threat as we did for many years. Witness the moves of the Japanese prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor. We played checkers while they played chess.

9/11 woke us up to the chess game. Let the games begin! The adminstration is now playing chess while the MSM is still playing checkers (they don't consider that this administration is capable of playing chess). What the MSM fails to see is that the war in Iraq is a move to put your foe on the defensive.

OT: Ted Rall on Hannity & Colmes (Fox News) NOW

#264 razorbacker

And chances of them being voted into a position of being in charge are about equal to the possibility of me waking up tommorrow morning to find (insert sex goddess of your choice here) hoovering my johnson.

And I wonder why?

You really want us to speculate about the possible causes of your sexual inadequacies?

;)

#261 visitorstay
I totally disagree, if the Muslims can dish it out, then they can damn well take it. No butt kissin the killers!

Baldy
Am watching too. What a dip!

Gee Wiz-

I agree. And Europe is now finally engaging in the clash. And it's about damn time. I just hope it's not too late for them.