Anyone surprised? Anyone?

Did Mary Mapes advise these a**hats?

NYT? Phony story? Say it ain't so!

We take questions about our reporting very seriously

If only they took their reporting very seriously.

...or maybe Jason Blair?

They want it to be true, therefore journalistic standards go out the window.

As credible as a CBS News poll.

"All the news that we think is fit to print"

When are the people in New York gonna stop banging this old Whore?

/really it's time the old gray whore was put down. With a stake through it.

The Duranty Times relies on hard-core ledtist groups as its only sources. The paper is completely discredited, and has been for some time. It doesn't even try to hide its bias.

Does anyone know of a site that tracks and presents all the bogus stuff the MSM has been reporting over the past five or so years? Sure would be fun to set my LLL in-laws home page to it... (currently my father in-law has nytimes as his homepage)

"But, but, but the man had bad things to say about the US.

And since we know for a fact that the US is bad, he just had to be telling the truth."

Even worse it was SALON.com who challenged them ... a site that one can only characterize as "crazy lefty".

How's that for irony?

# 4 great point...NY Slimes strikes again. Has anyone here paid a dime for that thing recently?

The NY Times---less credibility than "Mad Magazine".

9 Stormy

Sure would be fun to set my LLL in-laws home page to it...

I like your evil mind.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Pravda's successor. I believe I will see the NYTimes shut down and forcibly transferred to new ownership in my lifetime...and I ain't that young anymore.

...the NYT believes, disseminates and creates lies...

I foresee a spot in Brit Hume's "Grapevine" for this little tidbit.

Another 500 layoffs coming. It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of losers.

They spoke to someone who spoke to the guy who made the claim? That's enough for a page 1 story of the NY Times?

I mean, we know they are hardcore lefties but when you see stuff like this you just realize they aren't even trying to pretend to be professionalor fair anymore.

And they have the chutzpah to complain about blogs?

Hate to say it, but I have to give Salon some credit for talking to the military. For a long time I've thought that eventually the media will get to the point where it's dog-eat-dog. Market share is going down and they're going to start turning on each other to stay alive. Now this is just Salon vs NYT and Salon isn't exactly big-time MSM, but there have been a few instances of MSM vs MSM and I hope it becomes a trend.

Can you prove that he's not the man in the hood?

The sad thing is, shit like this happens all the time in the MSM. Remember the Marine (Massey I think) who went around for years claiming his unit killed civilians until the embedded reporters came forward and said he was full of shit? Turns out none of the papers who ran his stories ever bothered to verify his BS.

Dont trust the MSM or their agenda is the bottom line.

We take questions about our reporting very seriously, and we will carefully investigate Salon’s findings,” Susan Chira, the Times’ foreign editor, said in Tuesday’s editions. “We attempted to verify the claims of Mr. Qaissi thoroughly. We spoke with representatives of Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, who had interviewed Mr. Qaissi and believed him to be the man in the photographs.”

This day's starting out with a lot of laughs, thanks Charles.

Is it at all important to discuss what he was in prision for? This guy was a long time saddamite.

Fake but accurate.

And think how many of these bogus stories were never exposed. . .

left-wing NGOs
left-wing NGOs
left-wing NGOs

And Bingo was his name O!

fake but accurate...someone was pictured with a hood, weren't they? does it really matter if its the guy we said or another camel jockey...er, person?

Why I am reminded of the guy who falsely claimed to be Buckwheat?

Another is Bill English, a grocery store employee who appeared on the October 5, 1990, episode of the ABC investigative television newsmagazine 20/20 claiming to have been Buckwheat.

Stormy (#9),

TimesWatch would be a good place to start.

#29 Silhouette
wasn't buckwheat (gedeon somthing or other) recently eliminated from american idol?
oh come on, you all know you thought it...

#17 windy

I foresee a spot in Brit Hume's "Grapevine" for this little tidbit.

I think he already did that. I first heard of this story this morning I think and when I heard the source was Ammnasty International I though who in the heck would take their word on anything. And then they said NY Times. 'nuff said.
Oh yeah and in regards to which publication it was that Bush referenced in his speech yesterday concerning the publishing of techniques we used to disable IED's it was the LA Times. The LA Times response was "They didn't ask us to not publish it".
I hope the editors of this piece of fish wrap are forced to call all the families of service members killed by IED's since they published their report and apologize.

Hey, that this story was wrong and that they have been exposed by Salon still works for them.

It keeps Abu Ghraib (cue Psycho music) in the news another day.

Damage done. Everyone who read it thought it was true. I do not see the NYT retracting this or even investigating it. It doesn't have the appeal of the Jayson Blair or Dan Rather media scandals.

#9, Stormy, I think you have already found one of the premier sites analysing and fact checking the the MSM. It's called Little Green Footballs.

Qaissi also was interviewed and described as the hooded man in an article in Vanity Fair and in a broadcast on PBS

Gee, now there's a coincidence. BDS victim extraordinaire Graydon Carter's Vanity Fair, uberliberal PBS, and the New York Times... man, what are the odds?

The same Italian propagandist who made the notorious Fallujah's White Phosphorous shockumentary also tried to peddle this story. He also tried to involve Italians with the Abu Ghraib abuses.

Ah well... this is possibly the most unhinged conspiracy website I've ever seen:

- Stealth Jewish/Zionist Jewish currently rule U.S., U.K. and the rest of the world, but, no one realize it except themselves.

Main story printed on page 1. The retraction will be printed on page 27 - below the fold.

NYT:

We think Karl Rove runs the White House with Dick Cheney, but we're going to double check that with Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid because we take our reporting seriously. No, really.

The Ministry of Truth strikes again.

In an up and coming story, the hard hitting journalist from NYT will investigate thoroughly the bikini underwear angle to the torture at Abu Ghraib.

"The Victoria Secret Connection...Bikini or low briefs...the silk beanies of Abu Ghraib".

It's getting beyond the point of funny anymore. It seems our society is so used to taking what ever is presented to them as fact, that the politicians and the MSM have decided to drop all pretense and just say anything they want; no shame, no embarassment (except when publically caught and exposed).

It's a sad trend...Somehow, the warping of the First Amendment is reaching the far end of it's expected usage...

You got your lies, and then you got your mistakes. There's a difference. The White House lies and the Times makes mistakes.

Is that perfectly clear?

#43 Peacekeeper

You got your lies, and then you got your mistakes. There's a difference. The White House lies and the Times makes mistakes.

It is only a lie if you say it under oath, depending on what is "is of course.

Folks, to the Left, whomever was under the hood is not the point.

The important thing, to the Left, is that Americans, on the anniversary of the liberation of Iraq and the fall of Saddam Hussein are reminded of Bush's ``illegal, immoral'' war, 100,000 Iraqis (allegedly) killed, ``torture'' and Bush's ``impeachable lies,'' oh, and 2,300 American dead. (about what we lost the first day on Omaha Beach on D-Day)

The ``story'' real or not, serves the Left's purpose of ``drawing attention to the issue'' just like faked hated crimes on campuses draw attention to the issue of racism, even where none existed.

Fake, but accurate indeed. A lie to serve the ``greater truth'' Just like Dan Rather's Memogate, and any good totalitarian regime's propaganda.

And I see the alleged Dean of ``speaking truth to power'' becomes more Nixonian every day. Imperial Journalism indeed.

[Link: newsbusters.org...]

#37 Fabio C.

That's a really 'good' (?) one. I need feel compelled (?) strangely drawn to check it out more.

Icke Lizard

#43 PK

Passive voice needed.

Mistakes were made. Somewhere in the vague vicinity of the NYT.

Well this must have put the NYT in a bind. How could they not accept the word of the US Govt, which was, after all, INVOLVED FROM PRESIDENT BUSH TO PRIVATE PYLE in the events at Abu Ghraib? I mean, RUMSFELD WAS THERE AND ORDERED THE TORTURE! And, uh, CHENEY ATTACHED THE PIPECLEANER ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H ELECTRODES!

How could they doubt the Government?

#9 Stormy

Here's a site that might work

#34 MSMediaCritic - if you go to Charles' update link, the NYT has apparently published an
"error" message which was buried deep inside the paper, not on page 1 as was the original story.
The only thing that shocked me with this story wasn't that NYT didn't bother to check with the Army's CID for verification and instead relied on Amnesty International and Human Watch for it's "verification" but rather that Salon took on the NYT and really took them to task over it.
Yeah, the days when the Ancient Media ruled the news world are coming to an end faster than even I thought after Charles so thoroughly fisked cBS's TANG memo story.

Teh Cassandra page had a nice thumbnail roundup of the media lies of 2005.

[Link: cassandra2004.blogspot.com...]

OT

Tunnels Used by Ancient Jews Discovered

Palis decry land grab scheme (Just kidding, for now at least.)

JERUSALEM - Underground chambers and tunnels used during a Jewish revolt against the Romans nearly 2,000 years ago have been uncovered in northern Israel, archaeologists said Monday.

The Jews laid in supplies and were preparing to hide from the Romans during their revolt in A.D. 66-70, the experts said. The pits, which are linked by short tunnels, would have served as a concealed subterranean home.

Yardenna Alexandre of the Israel Antiquities Authority said the find shows the ancient Jews planned and prepared for the uprising, contrary to the common perception that the revolt began spontaneously.

#50 realwest

The only thing that shocked me with this story wasn't that NYT didn't bother to check with the Army's CID for verification

There was a blurb that the Pentagon was asked about the identity but refused to verify it because it would violate portions of the Geneva Conventions. So it is alright for human rights groups to violate the very same laws and rules they constantly berate the military and this administration of abusing.

#37 FabioC.

Ah well... this is possibly the most unhinged conspiracy website I've ever seen

Wow, you're not kidding. According to their theory, even the Pope could be a "Stealth Jew"

Bwaahaaahaaahaaa

#1 Stormy:

Anyone surprised? Anyone?

You took the question right out of my mouth.

#31 pointed stick

I didn't.

Sigh. I really think if the NYT claimed the Jets won the last 3 Super Bowls, they would expect us to believe it.

From the NY Times story:

Mr. Qaissi, 43, was prisoner 151716 of Cellblock 1A. The picture of him standing hooded atop a cardboard box, attached to electrical wires with his arms stretched wide in an eerily prophetic pose, became the indelible symbol of the torture at Abu Ghraib, west of Baghdad.
A spokesman for the American military in Iraq declined to comment, saying it would violate the Geneva Conventions to disclose the identity of prisoners in any of the Abu Ghraib photographs, just as it would to discuss the reasons behind Mr. Qaissi's detention.

But prison records from the Coalition Provisional Authority, which governed Iraq after the invasion, made available to reporters by Amnesty International, show that Mr. Qaissi was in American custody at the time. Beyond that, researchers with both Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International say they have interviewed Mr. Qaissi and, along with lawyers suing military contractors in a class-action suit over the abuse, believe that he is the man in the photograph.
He was arrested in October 2003, he said, because he loudly complained to the military, human rights organizations and the news media about soldiers' dumping garbage on a local soccer field. But some of his comments suggest that he is at least sympathetic toward insurgents who fight American soldiers.

"Resistance is an international right," he said.

Weeks after complaining about the garbage, he said, he was surrounded by Humvees, hooded, tied up and carted to a nearby base before being transferred to Abu Ghraib.

Then there is the picture of Mr. Qaissi himself, standing atop a cardboard box, taken 15 days into his detention. He said he had only recently been given a blanket after remaining naked for days, and had fashioned the blanket into a kind of poncho.

The guards took him to a heavy box filled with military meal packs, he said, and hooded him. He was told to stand atop the box as electric wires were attached to either hand. Then, he claims, they shocked him five times, enough for him to bite his tongue.

Specialist Sabrina Harman was convicted last May for her role in abusing prisoners at Abu Ghraib, but she was accused of threatening to electrocute a hooded inmate on a box if he stepped off it, not of shocking him while he was atop it.

After almost six months in Abu Ghraib, Mr.

With a thick shock of gray hair and melancholy eyes, Mr. Qaissi is today a self-styled activist for prisoners' rights in Iraq. Shortly after being released from Abu Ghraib in 2004, he started the Association of Victims of American Occupation Prisons with several other men immortalized in the Abu Ghraib pictures.

Financed partly by Arab nongovernmental organizations and private donations, the group's aim is to publicize the cases of prisoners still in custody, and to support prisoners and their families with donations of clothing and food.

Mr. Qaissi has traveled the Arab world with his computer slideshows and presentations, delivering a message that prisoner abuse by Americans and their Iraqi allies continues. He says that as the public face of his movement, he risks retribution from Shiite militias that have entered the Iraqi police forces and have been implicated in prisoner abuse. But that has not stopped him.

Last week, he said, he lectured at the American University in Beirut, on Monday he drove to Damascus to talk to students and officials, and in a few weeks he heads to Libya for more of the same.

#52 Kragar(proud to be kafir)

Jewish revolt against the Romans nearly 2,000 years ago

I really hate the Romans. What ha...

/Please, no thrown objects.

#56 jemima
well surely you would concede that he was putting on quite the act for the camera.
although not nearly as bad as the country folk who apparently never ate food they did not personally kill...

Typical NYT enablers of the Religion of Peace.

Meanwhile, Iraqi civil war approaches: Iraqis Find 87 Bodies Within 24 Hours

Time to let the Shi'a & Sunni have a go at it. Want democracy, here ya go-. Bush has staked too much on the success of democracy in Iraq, and the left is sure to blame him & republicans/conservatives no matter what.

After the fall of Saddam, I thought Iraqis would embrace (in a positive way, not like Hamas) democracy. But it's not working out, things continue to degrade. People may not like to hear this but take an objective look.

They ned to work out the peoblems inherent in Islam, Shi'a vs. Sunni, themselves. But I do think we should support the Kurds who seem to more-or-less to be civil. Iraq should be partitioned since it's an "artificial" nation anyway.

Please read this before flaming:
Fitzgerald: Sunnis, Shi'a, Kurds, and Infidels

"American policy should not depend upon the ability, or willingness, of "Iraqis" (i.e. Sunni and Shi'a Arabs, and Kurds) to be "Iraqis." They won't be. Or if they will be, it will only be because we are no longer there to favor the "other side" -- for Shi'a think we are favoring the Sunnis, and the Sunnis think we are favoring the Shi'a. As currently presented, American policy appears to be in the hands not of Americans, but of Iraqis. We have assured them, so President Talebani says, that the Americans will stay for just as long as the Iraqis want and need them. Really? Is that how we are deciding our policy -- letting the "Iraqis" decide what American soldiers and Marines, what Reservists and National Guard troops, what vast expenditures of money, will still be misallocated and squandered? Which Iraqis?"

I was forgetting, a hat tip to Something Awful for pointing to that conspiracy pit.

Mr. Qaissi has traveled the Arab world with his computer slideshows and presentations, delivering a message that prisoner abuse by Americans and their Iraqi allies continues. He says that as the public face of his movement, he risks retribution from Shiite militias that have entered the Iraqi police forces and have been implicated in prisoner abuse. But that has not stopped him.

Okay so using a little deductive reasoning, Does this mean this man is a Sunni since he fears the Shiite's? Weren't the Sunni's the privileged class under Saddam? Oh stop me. Who am I to question the integrity of Mr Quasimodo? He couldn't possibly have an agenda.
/bad reception on the tin foil

But did the story have a certain "trutheness", that is the real question.

#37 FabioC.

If you read to the last paragraph I think it all should become clear. Not really.

Khazaria also known as Khazar khaganate was the country of the Khazars, neighboring the Byzantine Empire in the southwest, Kievan Rus' in the northwest, and Azerbaijan in the southeast. This Turkic people adopted Judaism in the 8th or 9th century.

From Bush's eyes and Mickey hat to highliting every "Jew," that is, as you say, the "most unhinged conspiracy website I've ever seen..."

Bennish might assign that in his class.

#37 FabioC.

Wow. Just wow.

From now on, the NYT will contact me and I will confirm their facts.
I mean, come on, I am just as credible as the rest of their sources, aren't I?

As a side note, they are interviewing prison inmates, and each of them claim they are innocent.
The NYT headline:
"All Inmates Innocent! Thousands of Crimes Committed by No One."
If they say so, then it must be true.

Next time they should check with our self-appointed domestic overseer of islamic human rights - CAIR. They seem to have a pretty good inside track into terror organizations and could undoubtedly have provided useful information [to subvert America].

"Which Iraqis?"

The ones that just voted in a national election.

Extrapolate the assumptions of the authors to the US. How many different ethnic groups, religions and philosophies are involved and yet we maintain a pretty cohesive nation?

Or do the authors think that "brown people" can't come together and maintain a consensus of what is good for all and compromise on lesser important, but divisive issues?

How long before the Times hires Dan Rather to help out with their fake but accurate approach?

#58 Van Impe

an eerily prophetic pose, became the indelible symbol of the torture at Abu Ghraib

Prophetic of what? What happened later that his stance prophesized?

And of course, it "became" (passive) the symbol, after the NYT et al made it their goal in life to make it the symbol.

Wouldn't anyone with the least bit of reasoning skills question his story about the arrest? Even if one likes to believe the US would arrest people for complaining, surrounding him with Humvees? Come on.

Heh, what if whining and seething were criminal offenses?

spam spam

"After the fall of Saddam, I thought Iraqis would embrace (in a positive way, not like Hamas) democracy. But it's not working out, things continue to degrade. People may not like to hear this but take an objective look."

Millions did and continue to do so. Thousands did not and continue to kill people. And btw, your about as objective as the NYT and WaPost. You want objective? You wan't a point of view from the field of action? Read Laura Ingraham's account of her recent visit to Iraq. Try Ralph Peters or Omar over at Iraq the Model. You won't find "its all wonderful in Iraq, blah, blah, blah". No, you will find an honest account of the positve, as well as negative, happenings that are occurring in Iraq on a daily basis. Of coures, the stories these authors/reporters provide will not fit your meme that all Arabs/Muslims are evil and need to exterminated.

spam spam

"After the fall of Saddam, I thought Iraqis would embrace (in a positive way, not like Hamas) democracy. But it's not working out, things continue to degrade. People may not like to hear this but take an objective look."

Millions did and continue to do so. Thousands did not and continue to kill people. And btw, your about as objective as the NYT and WaPost. You want objective? You wan't a point of view from the field of action? Read Laura Ingraham's account of her recent visit to Iraq. Try Ralph Peters or Omar over at Iraq the Model. You won't find "its all wonderful in Iraq, blah, blah, blah". No, you will find an honest account of the positve, as well as negative, happenings that are occurring in Iraq on a daily basis. Of coures, the stories these authors/reporters provide will not fit your meme that all Arabs/Muslims are evil and need to exterminated.

**Confidential - For Internal NYT Employees Use Only - Not for External Distribution**

When fact checking stories re: Bush or Abu Gharib, always consult the paper’s “Magic 8 Ball” (located by second floor water cooler) and shake vigorously for one of the following:

• Signs point to yes.
• Yes.
• Without a doubt.
• As I see it, yes.
• You may rely on it.
• It is decidedly so.
• Yes - definitely.
• It is certain.
• Outlook good.

Dirty liars...I am the hooded prisoner in the pictures !

I love stories like this. The lizards work themselves into a lather because MAYBE the Times made a mistake in its reporting and MAYBE they didn't talk to the military to check. That would of course be the same military that perpetrated the abuses being discussed, but never mind.

Meanwhile, the actual prisoner abuse is still pooh-poohed as a non-story or, at best, a few bad apples who went a little too far with their hijinks. At worst, the people who were abused were all just a bunch of WOGs so who the fuck cares anyway?

Just another day in the moral sewer that Bush apologists live in.

Meanwhile, I was listening to NPR's This American Life this past weekend (Yes, NPR! Good old lefty NPR!) and hear that of the 600-odd detainees in Gitmo, only a couple of dozen have yielded intelligence of any kind, a handful were confirmed terrorists, the vast majority were handed to us by local Pakistanis or Afghans for reward money and no one who has actually seen these people, talked to them or heard their stories think they are actually a threat. Most of them were not scooped off the battlefield, as Bush has said over and over again, but handed to us. Gee, another Bush lie. What a surprise.

For any lizard who cares to open their mind just a crack, the show can be heard here.

From now on, can they photoshop a hood onto Lynndie England's head?

#76 BPP,

If it were just "a few bad apples who went a little too far with their hijinks", they wouldn't be spending years in the brig, now would they?

Mr Bennish, don't you have a class to teach?

Just noticed a little LGF quirk when writing my previous post. Type in the word "rag" and the word "head" together in one word, or hyphenate it, and then press preview. The word gets rendered as "Arab".

Clearly Charles has programmed LGF to - horrors! - self-censor those Lizards who wish to avail themselves of this common epithet. Whatever happened to free speech?

Just askin'.

#37 fabioc: that website rules. I love idiotic conspiracy theories. I always thought you could tell a stealth jew by their low radar cross-section.

#76 BPP

The lizards work themselves into a lather because MAYBE the Times made a mistake in its reporting and MAYBE they didn't talk to the military to check.

It doesn't bother you that they printed a story on the front page that MAY NOT BE TRUE?

From Mediacrity:

In a brief, unsigned article buried deep within the newspaper today, the New York Times admitted that a major "scoop" in the newspaper on Saturday may have been nothing more than a load of ca-ca.

That's all fine and dandy with BPP. Figures.

#799 bpp
hey, i got camel jockey through...although i suspect not for long...
the rag and towel references are kind of offensives to sikh's though, i guess. all in the name of decorum.

#79 BPP,

So why were you attempting to use a ethnic slur? Mobys post slurs here so they can link to it and say "See? See what a racist Charles Johnson is?" They've done it over and over again. Charles doesn't have the time to moderate this forum, so a filter is the best option. Personally, I wish he'd change it to something humorous that would make the poster look like a fool, like Fark.com does.

I loathe the old gray harlot. Here's a story about one of our commenters, stuck on a train with nothing to read but the NYT:

Never, Ever Travel Without a Book

#83 spiny norman
surely some one can invent some simple code like 'mad libs' to insert random adjectives and such...

#85 pointed stick

Mad libs? What a great idea. We need to update that one and make it political.

I love it. How many mad libs besides Howard Dean can you name? Nancy Pelosi is pretty looney -- I mean mad, like crazy.

#76 BPP

The point is that the Abu Graib incident was resolved with perps going to prison. The point is that the MSM has thrashed this dead horse long enough.

How does it feel to be the abuser of the corpse of a horse? Beat it all you like, you won't get any more mileage from it.

THe vast majority of posters at LGF condemned the behaviour of the MP's at Abu Graib. But, you in your blind hatred of this site, chose to ignore that and paint LGF with a broad brush.

The problem is with you. You are an anal retentive leftist pile of shit. That is YOUR problem, not ours. Take your self hate and do whatever self haters do, just do it somewhere else.

#79 BPP

That last post shows how petty you are. Don't you have anything of importance to whine about?

The one thing that bothers me about this picture and others, is how calm some of these people seem to be. Some pictures that were releasled recently showed people smiling. What's up with that? Are we sure all these pic's are of prisoners, or were they of the soldiers?

#81 m

No, it probably does not bother BPP that the story might be false. It just proves "the greater truth".

Y'know, fake but accurate.

oh, and BPP, you asked

Whatever happened to free speech?

You lefties are trying to kill it by:
-trying to bring back the "fairness doctrine" so you can kill conservative talk radio,
-adopting "speech codes" at universities that are written in such a way as to allow liberal students to say what they want, while pre-empting conservative responses as "hate speech",
-deleting posts on Kos or DU that commit the heinous crime of presenting a conservative viewpoint (whereas we here at LGF are still letting you post),
-complaining that anybody criticizing what you say is somehow censorship, and
-throwing food at conservative speakers on college campuses.

So as far as I'm concerned, lefties like yourself have no right to lecture us on free speech.

Mad libs?

Dennis "mind-control satellites" Kucinich.

=^D

m (#81),

What's the problem? They (in there own words) said they "attempted" to confirm the story. What more do you want?

OT: Personal Super Computers

Tyan has created a monster supercomputer that harnesses all that power into a box that fits under your desk. Aimed at researchers and scientists, the Typhoon Personal Super Computer (PSC) is available with either Opteron or Pentium processors inside, and consists of four dual-socket blades in a box equipped with cooling fans that are so quiet you could actually live with them running in the same room. Each one of its four blades is hooked up to a SATA drive, and all of those are linked together via gigabit Ethernet. The Opteron handles 64GB of memory, while the Pentium settles for “just” 32GB.

With 16 cores at full speed, imagine how well it could play Quake. Sure, it’s for scientists today, but so were PCs not long ago—this just might be the beginning of a new category of personal computers, the PSC.

[Link: gizmodo.com...]

#86 dymphna
#90 spiny norman
believe it or not, i did not even realize my own double entendre on that one...
but yes, mad libs for mad libs!
/where do i sign?

#91 Geepers

m (#81),

What's the problem? They (in there own words) said they "attempted" to confirm the story. What more do you want?

Well, it's not like we ask for objectivity or anything. I know that would just screw 'em up.

The Times lied in yet another "Get Bush" story? Sorry, that barely qualifies as news. It's barely worthy of a thread as the huge /sarc number of posts here shows.

PS Charles, thanks for posting this anyway. Any time you out the NT Slimes as a hypocritical "Get Bush" BDS-suffering den of moonbats is appreciated.

PPS Rush on this right now...

Note the troll BPP in #76 once again clings to fantasy rather than face up to facts. What a typical BDS-suffering fact-denying moonbat. /spit

Yesterday Taranto pointed out how this this guy's tale was the Page 1 subject last weekend, while the killing and torture of the Christian peacenik missionary was on pages 8 and 10. Of the same newspaper.
link
Now can we question their patriotism?

#61 spam spam spam spam 3/14/2006 09:13AM PST

After the fall of Saddam, I thought Iraqis would embrace (in a positive way, not like Hamas) democracy. But it's not working out, things continue to degrade. People may not like to hear this but take an objective look.

You are falling for the MSM spin -- that's exactly what they believe and want you to believe, but the reality is quite different:

[Link: www.defenselink.mil...]

Just an aside for perspective's sake: More people are killed every day in the US by either gun violence or car accidents than are being killing in Iraq by the terrorists. Sorry, that doesn't sound quite like a civil war to me. No, THIS is civil war: [Link: www.meaning.ca...]

83 Spiny Norman

Chosing at random from the rotating titles jar might have possibilities...

#98 MoonbatBane 3/14/2006 10:40AM PST

Just an aside for perspective's sake: More people are killed every day in the US by either gun violence or car accidents than are being killing in Iraq by the terrorists.

Heck, more people are killed by doctors making mistakes in the US than are being killed by terrorists in Iraq...

BPP,

Free speech does not mean speech free of consequences.

Obviously, you've never been paid to speak or write anything before, so of course it's all free to you.

Moron.

87 Orson Buggy

THe vast majority of posters at LGF condemned the behaviour of the MP's at Abu Graib. But, you in your blind hatred of this site, chose to ignore that and paint LGF with a broad brush.

You've got to be kidding. The way I remember it, the vast majority of posters at LGF, including Charles, belittled the charges of abuse by comparing them to fraternity pranks. Most people here were far more incensed by the amount of coverage the story got than the nature of the story itself, repeatedly saying the media coverage, rather than the abuse itself, harms the war effort. Furthermore, most people still insist that it was only a few bad apples, rather than deliberate policy, and most people gloss over the fact that the examples of abuse in the famous Abu Ghraib photographs were not even the most serious cases of abuse. Most people are I think not even aware that more than 100 prisoners have died in US custody, and that a good chunk of those were homicides.

But you're right in one respect. It is clear that no one will get any political mileage out of pointing this out. It's too far down the list of screw-ups and outrages perpetrated by the Bushies. People are suffering from Bush screw-up fatigue. With a 34% approval rating, it's not clear how much lower Bush can go.

And yes, I've got a bad case of Bush hatred.

when I read this, the thought that came to my mind was the latest ads on television for the nyt. It shows quick cuts of people talking about what they like about "The Times" and one man says "I like the way they surround a story" this gives me a chuckle, on many levels, thanks nyt. I am not going to subscribe to your rag, of course. But thanks anyway.

Hmmm, Tweazers.

When the Times wants to check a story about Abu Ghraib, they don’t call anyone in the US government.

They call Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, two of the most politicized left-wing NGOs in the world.

Well yeah, when you engage in agenda journalism, you call your allies in your cause. You don't try to get a balanced view.

That's one thing I like about much of conservative talk. They try to get the opponents on.

After the fall of Saddam, I thought Iraqis would embrace (in a positive way, not like Hamas) democracy. But it's not working out, things continue to degrade. People may not like to hear this but take an objective look.

This is the battle front right now. Evil people are trying to prevent a peaceful democracy.

It'd be like saying that in Sept-Dec 1944 you'd think the French would embrace freedom, but you can see that is not the case from the continued fighting in that country.

#100 MoonbatBane

Heck, more people are killed by doctors making mistakes in the US than are being killed by terrorists in Iraq...

hey, easy with that pseudo-statistic, some of those doctors are my friends -the rest are clients.

#102 BPP 3/14/2006 10:56AM PST

And yes, I've got a bad case of Bush hatred.

Really? We couldn't tell. Thanks for clearing that up for us, ya barking moonbat.

#102 BPP

You've got to be kidding. The way I remember it, the vast majority of posters at LGF, including Charles, belittled the charges of abuse by comparing them to fraternity pranks.

Links please.

Your "recollections" are not suffient evidence to indict. Not by a long shot.

*sufficient*

BPP

Provide some links, please.

And it's time to get over the 2000 election. Al Gore lost.

BPP,

I suggest psychological counseling for your BDS.

Your hatred has consumed you.

The way I remember it,

Facts be damned. It was the way BPP remembered it, so therefore it must be true.

Just like the way Algore won the 2000 election.

Who ownes the NYT ? or maybe there are more than one owner.

Would be interesting to know.

#111 JammieWearingFool

I gotta agree with you; BPP's got BDS.

In justice, this Abu Grabe story is the ONLY one that seems to have had legs - of course the LLL at the NYS is going to push it over and over and over ... again. Everything else they've tried to slime Pres Bush has blown up in their faces.

BPP (#102),

Furthermore, most people still insist that it was only a few bad apples, rather than deliberate policy,

Oh yeah, I can see the nightly breifing now:

"OK. This is from HQ, so listen up!

Tonight we're going to make a pile of naked prisoners. Then Linsey is going to have sex with her boyfriend to taunt them. GOT IT?

Good.

Dismissed."

saw the article yesterday. the guy had business cards with the supposed pictures of himself being tortured on them.
he came across as last years reality show runner up, trying to hold onto the fame.

[Link: www.attackcartoons.com...]

the scandal irritated me because it showed a lack of professionalism by the army. i never felt any sympathy for the prisoners.

#102
Words fail me.

Most people are I think not even aware that more than 100 prisoners have died in US custody, and that a good chunk of those were homicides.

100 deaths in five years? That's less than 1% of all detainess currently held by America and it's allies according to Amnesty International (hardly a bastion of Bush cheerleading neo-cons).

In addition many of those homicides have been the subject of numerous investigations, so it's hardly like they were being murdered with impunity.

But that's just not good enough for BPP.

Enlighten us as to the appropriate course of action that the U.S. should take. What would you do with the thousands of detainees currently in American custody? Why don't you tell us the techniques you would use solicit information from men trained to resist interrogations?

I am all ears.

TalkinKamel et al.

Provide some links, please.

Ya want some links? I got yer links right here, buddy.

Here's a rather representative post, from around the time the story came out.

If true, the stories of Iraqi prisoners being embarrassed by US military police are distasteful at the very least, and the MPs involved should be disciplined if found guilty.

What worries me about this, however, is the imminent, very predictable self-flagellating guilt orgy from the media, replete with silly exaggerations of the importance of this isolated, anomalous incident.

You got your inverted priorities, caring more about the story than the abuse, and the canard that it was all just a few bad apples. And that's just in one sentence!

Maybe we can be generous and say that at the time, the full extent of detainee abuse was not known. But of course has Charles acknowledged that abuse was more widespread? Not that I can remember, although I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

116 Geepers

"OK. This is from HQ straight from the president, so listen up!

Tonight we're going to make a pile of naked prisoners. Then Linsey is going to have sex with her boyfriend to taunt them. GOT IT?

Good.

Dismissed."

#120 Mr Hannish,

What part of Charles' post is not true?

If true, the stories of Iraqi prisoners being embarrassed by US military police are distasteful at the very least, and the MPs involved should be disciplined if found guilty.

What worries me about this, however, is the imminent, very predictable self-flagellating guilt orgy from the media, replete with silly exaggerations of the importance of this isolated, anomalous incident.

The reports of abuse proved to be mostly true, and the perps are, in fact, being punished. The reports were also grossly exaggerated and it was an isolated, anomalous incident.

Your own link proves you wrong, buddy.

You've got to be kidding. The way I remember it, the vast majority of posters at LGF, including Charles, belittled the charges of abuse by comparing them to fraternity pranks.

Are you honestly telling me that putting panties on someone's head or placing a leash around someone's neck can be compared to sawing someone's head off? I think you are. Another LLL moonbat who defines "torture" as stress higher than that experienced at the average job interview.

The people who did this have been tried in court and sent to prison. If you're going to claim that this was ordered and approved by higher-ups, you're going to need links to prove it. You don't get to make up charges and have them be considered true until proven false. That's the lefty way of doing things and it doesn't wash here.

Or, failing that, take a shower, remove the Gore and Kerry bumper stickers from your car, get a job, and join the rest of us in the adult world.

Islam is the spreading cancer of today's world. You know how you fight cancer?

Radiation.

Lots and lots of radiation.

Thanks for the insight, moby Derek.

#102 120 BPP

I'm not the least bit concerned with the treatment of prisoners at Abu Graib and very unlkely to be confused with a humanitarian as it relates to terrorists.

You're confusing sexual bufoonery with torture.

My how spines have softened on your side and how selective the "outrage".

You and your LLL ilke will remain untrustworthy of handling national security will remain (thankfully) in the minority.

/eyes rolling

#126 Apu Pibat

Captain Ahab has been stomping around the thread and sure enough, the white whale turns up!

Roar.

#97, Totally Berserk wrote:

Yesterday Taranto pointed out how this this guy's tale was the Page 1 subject last weekend, while the killing and torture of the Christian peacenik missionary was on pages 8 and 10. Of the same newspaper.

Saw that too.  When our enemies have the NY Times, who needs al-Jazeera?

Here are James Taranto's comments from yesterday:

Torturing the News
Tom Fox, a member of the anti-American "Christian Peacekeeper Teams," has been murdered by terrorists in Iraq who held him hostage for more than three months, the New York Times reported on Saturday. On Sunday, the paper carried a follow-up report that Fox "had apparently been tortured by his captors before being shot multiple times in the head and dumped on a trash heap next to a railway line in western Baghdad."

The story of Fox's death ran on page A8; the story of his torture, on page A10. So what made the Times' front page on Saturday? Yet another story about Abu Ghraib.

And the NY Lies is up for another Duranty-like Pulitzer prize this year, for intentionally exposing National Security secrets on the front page.

Can private citizens file a lawsuit based on Article III of the Constitution?
 

#102, BPP:

On "prisoner abuse," Daniel Pearl, Paul Johnson, Nicholas Berg, Fabrizio Quattrochi, and Lyubomir Kostov could not be reached for comment.
 

BPP,

You got your inverted priorities, caring more about the story than the abuse, and the canard that it was all just a few bad apples. And that's just in one sentence!

Oh man. Talk about inverted priorities. You and your ilk would rather find fault with Bush or the US military and spew your vile BS than speak up regarding the ACTUAL atrocities commited on a daily basis by the Islamofacists and their henchmen all over the world.

What's a matter? You a little afraid that they might actually come after YOU! Bush and the military are easy targets. They let you get away with this crap.

People like you make me sick. Where were you when 800k+ Africans were slaughtered? Where were you when your BUDDY Bill Clinton was indiscriminatly bombing Serbs, Chinese embassies etc.? Where were you when Saddam was ACTUALLY torturing, raping and killing innocent human beings or gassing his own?

It was your kind that allowed people like Stalin and Hitler to wipe out millions...

You strike me as being what I call a Howard Zinn liberal. America is the root of all evil.

Why don't you show some conviction and act as a human shield somewhere, ok? Preferably in Gaza, the west bank or Afghanistan.

"We attempted to verify the claims of Mr. Qaissi thoroughly. We spoke with representatives of Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, who had interviewed Mr. Qaissi and believed him to be the man in the photographs."

Cindy Sheehan, Tawana Brawley and Michael Moore believed he was the man in the photographs too.

That was a picture of the Iraqi Batman.

Just translate "Bruce Wayne" into Arabic and look him up in the phone book.

#119 Dirk Diggler 3/14/2006 11:50AM PST

Enlighten us as to the appropriate course of action that the U.S. should take. What would you do with the thousands of detainees currently in American custody?

Give the illegally held brave freedom fighters and minutemen their guns and IEDs back, return them to the battlefield, and let them continue to kill the real terrorists aka Americans, Iraqis, and Afghanis who are fighting to install oppressive "democratic" governments, of course. Oh yeah, and pay them reparations for daring to infringe their civil liberties.

/typical barking moonbat such as BPP -- surprised you had to ask

Of course the NY Times will just come out and say that we (United States) put so many hoods, on so many Iraqis, that... what does it matter?

I just can't take it anymore.

Another NYTimes headline today:
Reprisal Killings Leave at Least 85 Dead in Baghdad

1) How does the NYTimes KNOW that the reason for the killings are "reprisal"? Did they actually talk to someone who told them "I killed that man over there. I was mad at his flavor of person because he blew up my building?" No, I seriously doubt it.

4th paragraph [emphasis added]...

Over the past two days, according to the Iraqi Interior Ministry, the corpses of more than 85 executed men have been discovered across Baghdad, in both Sunni and Shiite neighborhoods, providing more graphic proof, if anyone needed it, of sectarian strife and a rise of vigilantism.

2) Are you kidding me? This is journalism? How is it possible for our fellow Americans to be this dense.

6th paragraph:

"We blame the government, entirely," said Daffar al-Ani, a spokesman for the Iraqi Consensus Front, one of the larger Sunni Arab political parties. "These hangings, these killings in the night, they have the signature of police commandos."

3) You are the people... you are the government. You can't blame it on Saddam or anyone else anymore. Get involved in the peace.

I had an incredible experience the other day. I went to lunch with a few co-workers. A hip, tasty burger joint in Santa Monica. The line was out the door. We waited, got our food, sat and ate. While we were eating a local police officer arrived. Because he was interesting, I watched him. There he was with a gun, two pairs of handcuffs, and a lot of command authority, standing in line like all of the rest of us, waiting for the citizens he can arrest to finish so he can sit. He stood in line like every other Joe. And all of the citizens around him went on eating, chatting, laughing... without a care in the world that a man with a gun was right behind him.

Because we knew, all of us, that he had no power over anyone unless we broke a big rule. Society takes care of itself, we do not need to be taken care of. In fact, the policeman new that WE had power over HIM if he should arbitrarily push his way to the front of the line.

That's how it works in a civilized society. Iraq WILL be a civilized society, no help to the NYTimes. It takes years for this kind of effect to occur, especially after three decades of tyranny.

NYTimes: Gimme a break. Get a grip. Look around you. Remember what it feels like to be a human being. Then get to work doing what you were hired to do: news reporting.

[end of rant]

123 Abu Pibat

If you're going to claim that this was ordered and approved by higher-ups, you're going to need links to prove it.

And of course if I provide such links, your first response will be to point to the source, which will probably be a media outlet not sympathetic to the Bush Administration, and say that that proves it is all untrue. Because in your twisted view of the world, anything that provides evidence that contradict your beliefs is, by definition, false.

No matter. Your want a link? Here's a link.

One of the most conclusive bits of evidence so far that torture was a deliberate policy set at the top is contained in the so-called Mora Memo, which was detailed in a recent article in the New Yorker magazine. In it, Alberto Mora, the former General Counsel of the Navy, is described as fighting a battle to end the disastrous policy of torture of detainees and being thwarted at every turn. Here's one quote:

Without Mora’s knowledge, the Pentagon had pursued a secret detention policy. There was one version, enunciated in Haynes’s letter to Leahy, aimed at critics. And there was another, giving the operations officers legal indemnity to engage in cruel interrogations, and, when the Commander-in-Chief deemed it necessary, in torture. Legal critics within the Administration had been allowed to think that they were engaged in a meaningful process; but their deliberations appeared to have been largely an academic exercise, or, worse, a charade.

Cue ritual lizard attempts to discredit The New Yorker in 5..4..3..2..1

Why does the NY Times continue to push the Abu Gharib story? I believe their are actually 2 major reasons. The first is to diminish the credibilty of the military in the eyes of the general public. Every poll that comes out shows Americans hold service members in the highest regard as an institution. If they can attack that image then they will have more progress with promoting the whole illegal war agenda. You must look at this through a liberals eyes. There is no way a bunch of ill educated, ghetto dwelling, right wing fascist, brainwashed kids can be capable of doing all the things that they have done when we all know that Starbucks sipping, university professor, limosine riding, so in touch with their feelings liberals are the ones that have the only answers.
The second reason is to attack Bush.

#148 BPP

Stipulate loud music, cold AC, waking the prisoner, and such aren't torture? That's what I hear repeatedly.

Your article has some other stuff. You usually have to pay double for that kind of action, BPP.

He had been stripped naked; straddled by taunting female guards, in an exercise called “invasion of space by a female”; forced to wear women’s underwear on his head, and to put on a bra; threatened by dogs; placed on a leash; and told that his mother was a whore. By December, Qahtani had been subjected to a phony kidnapping, deprived of heat, given large quantities of intravenous liquids without access to a toilet, and deprived of sleep for three days. Ten days before Brant and Mora met, Qahtani’s heart rate had dropped so precipitately, to thirty-five beats a minute, that he required cardiac monitoring.

BPP,

Have you ever expressed any concern or condolence for those who's murders were taped by their killers while they chanted "allah akbar"?

Or even condemned those who taped and preformed the murders?

You know, just for balance?

Ahhh - Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaa!

Run along BPP,

#124 derek 3/14/2006 12:04PM PST
Islam is the spreading cancer of today's world. You know how you fight cancer?

Radiation.

Lots and lots of radiation.

and take 'derek' with you.

Excuse me?

You can take your moderate approach and respectfully fuck off. I'm not going to sit down and watch the modern world be slowly eaten away from the inside.

Islam needs to be crushed. Destroyed. Annihilated. There is no such thing as a peaceful Islam. That's a by-product of satan himself.

You can take your candy coated version of Islam and slowly munch on it as the world you know slowly gets enveloped in the web of a peaceful religion.

Have fun.

Having attended a few training sessions in what to expect should I have ever been captured I have an entirely different definition of torture then most of those manby pamby lawyer types have. Hell I went through worse just by going through basic training.
What the VC did to John McCain is torture, what these asswipes from the reserves, who incidentially were prison guards in civillian life, did is childish and that is about it.

He had been stripped naked; straddled by taunting female guards, in an exercise called “invasion of space by a female"

The horror! The horror!

/cue "The End" by the Doors

The Times did contact the government - or at least the military.

The newspaper also said it spoke with the man's lawyers, and contacted the military, which said the Geneva Conventions prevented it from commenting about the identity of anyone in a photograph.

Funny how the military decides to use the Geneva conventions to protect the identity of prisoners but doesn't feel the need to use it at other times.

He had been stripped naked; straddled by taunting female guards, in an exercise called “invasion of space by a female"

Do it at a convention of Naval aviators and it is called sexual harrasment.

When the msm starts to place as much weight on treatment of prisoners in saudi arabia, iran, syria, egypt, sudan, congo, cuba (and maybe even the international court of 'justice' in the hague, where even star prisoners end up poisoned), then I'll start to give a rat's ass about iraqi terrorists being dressed in ladies G strings.

Frankly, I don't care about last week's torturers and thugs getting back in spades what they doled out previously. The truth is that what they suffered was meek and mild compared to any of the above named countries and many more like them.

I don't see too many msm exposes about mistreatmetn of prisoners, corruption and rising nazism in places where their journalists require true courage to investigate. We don't have a free media in the west. We have a media that supports muslim clerical fascism and any other sort of ism that is attempting to ruin western civlisation.

Did derek just call rayra a "moderate"?

And derek, are you willing to use that "radiation" on say, ... the muslims in France?

Or Israel?

Or the 36 million muslims in China?

Or is it just loud-talking frustration?

#157

I understand that certain establishments charge a lot of money to willing cutomers for doing that. Assuming this man got it for free, are we to assume that US taxpayers now fund the playing out of sexual fantasies in US prisoner of war camps?

If so, someone had better manage the queue outside the al quaida recruiting office!

The online magazine Salon.com challenged the man’s identity, based on an examination of 280 Abu Ghraib pictures it has been studying for weeks and on an interview...

The image that conjurs...

Two hippy type interns with greasy hair, and large pit stained tye-dyed shirts sit around a folding table with magnifying glasses looking for hints of further torture. In th background there are piles of empty pizza boxes and Mountain Dew 2 Liter bottles scattered on the floor.
A panic is setting as the 'freedom duo' are not finding anythiung that has not been reported in any of the other 87 front page nyt stories so far this year - thier internship hangs in the balance. Perhaps, if one holds the photo just so and, yes! yes!, there it is - tweezers! We've got that bastard Rumsfeld now!

The image fades out as our heros do a victory bong hit in celebration of the next nyt front page article...

#156 Rashomon

The US military is smarter and can laugh louder than you.

#164
Two hippy type interns...

Funny, where I grew up the hippies became the right wing nutcases when they got older. Bong hits make people stupid.

BPP, you fucking idiot...

And of course if I provide such links, your first response will be to point to the source, which will probably be a media outlet not sympathetic to the Bush Administration, and say that that proves it is all untrue. Because in your twisted view of the world, anything that provides evidence that contradict your beliefs is, by definition, false.

Why don't I turn this around on you...you BDS-addled libs will believe anything that says something bad about Bush, even if it isn't true.

Therefore, the TANG memos are genuine, because CBS says so and they say bad things about Bush. The Downing Street Memos are going to lead to Bush's impeachment, because they say bad things about Bush. Bush is spying on his political enemies because the NYT says so, and that's bad for Bush. Bush blew up the levies in New Orleans and blew up the WTC, because various conspiracy nuts say so, and it's bad for Bush.

I still haven't gotten an answer from you about what is torture and what isn't. I guess in liberal land, putting panties on a prisoner's head is torture, because everybody knows soldiers are just a bunch of blood-thirsty babykillers, but Islamofacists beheading hostages somehow isn't, because the hostages were all in Iraq for their own benefit, so screw'em. Or something like that.

You're just going to have to get used to fact that Americans don't see any of what happened at Abu Ghirab as torture, especially when real torture is being carried out by our enemies, and aren't going to join you in spitting on the soldiers when they come back home.

Got in late. Checked the calander to see if it was "National Troll day".

Keep punishing these "nodrogs" or is it "snodrog"?

/struggling with the plural for Gordon-like asshats - please advise.

166 Rashomon

Funny, where I grew up the hippies became the right wing nutcases when they got older.

Evolving ones viewpoint is the way normal people age. A 20 YO hippie is in the process of growing, a 50 YO hippie is just to be pitied as life has past them by.

Bong hits make people stupid.

Yup.

Bong hits make people stupid

You're living proof.

"oh lordy now its MY turn to guffaw. Derek has no f'n idea who he's talking to. MY 'candy coated version of Islam'?!? LOL!

And top it off, I'm getting ankle-bit by a Canadian."

Ankle-bit?

Queue the Canadian jokes in 3...2...1...

I don't care if you're the biggest elephant riding, gun toting cowboy out there. My comment stays.

I suggest we start with Iran.

#174 rayra

Thanks for advising.

Does "asshat" still apply?

The latest mind-bending remark from a good friend who is, alas, a barking moonbat:

"I think the media are too favorable to Republicans."

Me: "WTH? they're MUCH harder on them than on Democrats."

She: "Well, what happens to all those stories about Bush? you know, the ones that crop up one week and are gone the next? That's pretty sinister! If you ask me, the reporters are just trying to preserve their ACCESS."

Me: AAARrrrggghhh! /thud

Apu Pibat

Therefore, the TANG memos are genuine, because CBS says so and they say bad things about Bush.

I don't believe the TANG memos are genuine.

The Downing Street Memos are going to lead to Bush's impeachment, because they say bad things about Bush.

I don't the Downing Street Memos are going to lead to Bush's impeachment, although I think they are pretty damning.

Bush is spying on his political enemies because the NYT says so, and that's bad for Bush. Bush blew up the levies in New Orleans and blew up the WTC, because various conspiracy nuts say so, and it's bad for Bush.

I don't believe any of those things. What's more, I don't anyone who does, and I live in New York, moonbat central. Try a bit harder, will you?

I still haven't gotten an answer from you about what is torture and what isn't. I guess in liberal land, putting panties on a prisoner's head is torture, because everybody knows soldiers are just a bunch of blood-thirsty babykillers, but Islamofacists beheading hostages somehow isn't, because the hostages were all in Iraq for their own benefit, so screw'em. Or something like that.

You didn't ask me to define torture. You asked me to provide a link showing evidence that the detainee abuse was authorized by higher-ups in the Pentagon. I did just that. As for my view of torture, I would say that if the General Counsel of the Navy thinks the treatment at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib amounted to torture, that's good enough for me. Forget the sexual humiliation stuff. How about waterboarding? Is that torture? Beatings? Holding someone in an uncomfortable position for 4-5 hours?

You take the typical wingnut view that because what we did was not as bad as what the jihadis do, then we shouldn't worry about it. A more fucked-up position could hardly be imagined. So as long as we're better than the most depraved people on the fact of the earth, we've got nothing to worry about?

#120 BPP

BPP, it's clearly no use debating with you; you're deep in the throes of BDS, a malady which, unfortunately, destroys all remaining vestiges of reason. You want to believe the worst of Bush and America. If we question your sources, you'll then accuse us of not accepting your sources. Apparently, we are simply to accept what you say, and not question---good heavens, if it's in the "New Yorker" it MUST be true!

All I'll say is that like Spiny Norman in Post #122, what part of Charles' statement isn't true? What is it you so violently disagree with? Because Charles says he hopes the media doesn't go overboard on covering it? Both heinous and horrid statements, to be sure! (sarc).

Furthermore, the fact is that the perps at Abu Ghraib were put on trial, are being court-martialed---and it was the army itself that uncovered the abuses! If this had been ordered by higher ups, I doubt it would ever have been uncovered---and the army certainly wouldn't have punished the perps. Heck, it probably would have given them medals!

#157 Just_A_Grunt

. . . And at Mistress Evil's Dungeon of Domination and Pleasure (all major credit cards accepted!) they call it "Business as usual!"

Rayra:

How about "Gordasses" a plural for the Nodrogs?

(I think "Gordon's" a bunch of nerdy college kids who studied under a Ward Churchill like professor, but I'm open to other points of view!)

I've just started reading AND BE A VILLAIN, a Nero Wolfe book by Rex Stout. And on page 22, Nero Wolfe says, "All the information I have has come from newspapers, and therefore much of it is doubtless inaccurate and some of it false."

LOL! This was written in 1948! I suppose one of those newspapers was the New York Times, since Nero Wolfe books take place in NYC.

#157 Just_A_Grunt

Do it at a convention of Naval aviators and it is called sexual harrasment.

This is going to be a Spinal Tap moment.

It's OK when females invade our space (or we smell the glove) because then the female is doing the dominating. But most of all because only Muslim guys report this stuff.

They pay for it the night before 'martyrdom,' but report it when they're lucky enough to get some in prison.

Lesson Eighteen of the Al Qaeda Manual: always report mistreatment in prison (regardless of actual mistreatment).

Hmmm. So rayra's gone soft on us?

LOL!

OT---Considering the Nodrogs, maybe "Gordon" really is just one person---but this person has more than one head! The sane head, the completely psycho head, the "Love me Daddy" head! Can't you just imagine all the heads arguing with each other over the computer? "HEY, IT'S MY TURN NOW! DON'T SAY THAT! THAT'S REALLY STUPID! YOU'RE SMEARING ME, CHARLES! OH, SHUT-UP, HEAD #3! SHUT UP YOURSELF, HEAD #6! ALL OF YOU PLEASE CALM DOWN! GIVE ME THAT KEYBOARD!"

#73 SaneInMN, #98 Moon

It's not going well in Iraq. I wish it was, but wishing doesn't work. Civil war coming. Guess well re-assess the situation in a year or so. You can't force "democracy" (in the western way) on people who don't want it. Or just want it for head-counting, like the "victory" of the people who call themselves Palestinians.

Civilization and the learned proper use of democracy (republic, actually in our case) is hard-won over generations. Islam = submission. The opposite of liberty.

“We take questions about our reporting very seriously, and we will carefully investigate Salon’s findings,” Susan Chira, the Times’ foreign editor, said in Tuesday’s editions.

She must have meant their opinion pieces that they call articles.

TalkinKamel

All I'll say is that like Spiny Norman in Post #122, what part of Charles' statement isn't true? What is it you so violently disagree with? Because Charles says he hopes the media doesn't go overboard on covering it?

What part of Charles' statement isn't true? Well all of it. But the most egregious part is the whole "anomalous" "isolated" bit. Plus the idea that detainees were only "embarrased".

Does this guy look like he was only "embarrassed"?

#188 BPP

You are suffering from BDS. Gore lost the election. Get over it.

#188 Mr Hannish

But the most egregious part is the whole "anomalous" "isolated" bit.

Oh, really? This sort of behavior, which has landed the morons responsible in the brig, is "common practice" or "widespread"? Do you have evidence to back up that slander?

I asked BPP a serious question and he has decided to duck it. Specifically I was soliciting feedback on how the internment of detainees should be dealt with and how the U.S. should handle interrogations. I have seen no response.

Proving yet again that when you ask someone on the left a question you're not likely to get an answer.

Lots of empty slogans. Never any ideas.

Oh BTW BPP you claimed that 100 detainess had died in captivity and that "a good chunk" of those were homicides. Well, how many constitutes "a good chunk"? 40? 60? 80?

The reason I ask is that if, say, 68 detainees were murdered in American custody that constitutes less than one tenth of one percent of the 70,000 detained.

Every incidence should be investigated and vigorously prosecuted where warranted, but that hardly makes American detention centers Andersonvilles.

Rayra,

See my previous post on how much I care about your personal opinion.

The New York Times in their editorial today (Thursday March 16) shows once again that they are not much disturbed by the murderous terrorism of the Hamas terrorists as by the efforts of Israel to defend itself from the terrorism.

This editorial comes on the heels of a recent editorial in which the Times said that the US should pressure Israel to fund the Hamas terrorists -- never mind that Hamas has annulled all of the previous agreements between the Pali Authority and Israel involving Israel sending funds to the Pali Authority. Never mind that the Hamas terrorists are sworn to wiping out Israel, according to their covenant. Never mind that the Hamas regime is based on a terrorist organization that has carried out dozens of suicide bombings.

Today the New York Times again shows that it lacks the interest in Hamas terrorism to even use the "t" word to describe Hamas: it's just "the militant group Hamas" using the same word "militant" that it used to describe a Jewish organization that picketed the Soviet embassy some decades ago to let Soviet Jews emigrate. Yes, Hamas is militant, in that it is not pacifist; but it is also a terrorist organization that has massacred scores of people.

It's not the terrorism against Israel that produces outrage at the NYT; it is only Israel's efforts to defend itself by reining in the terrorists. So it is that the NYT was moved editorially to denounce Israel's capture of the ringleader and cohorts in the murder of Israel's Tourism Minister Rehavam Ze'evi. Hamas had already announced that it was going to spring these murderers, so Israel had no choice but to take them into custody so that they would not be free to murder again.

The terrorists could have had weapons on them, so they were made to strip to their underwear. That is a defensive action by the Israelis, in response to a boast by the murder ringleader Sa'adat that he would never surrender. It could not be known whether he had explosives on him, and whether he would self-detonate. So he and his fellow terrorists were ordered to strip to their underwear. And they did. This the NYT finds to be unnecessary, probably because there was no risk to their own lives if the Israelis trusted the terrorists to be weapons free. The NYT complains editorially about "trampling the dignity of any Palestinian watching the spectacle", which is far more important to the NYT than the risks of the loss of lives. Yet these crocodile tears about trampled dignity are hypocritical, since the New York Times published a picture of the surrendering terrorists in their underwear in a big picture on the first page of their newspaper, above the fold. What the Israelis did was to avoid taking a risk against their lives; what the New York Times did, in publicising this photographically, was to do the maximum to trample dignity and cause humiliation,-- and then take the heat off themselves by accusing Israel of "unnecessary provocation". Self defense by Israel is not "unnecessary", except to the New York Times. Propagating the moment of surrender photographically is the real "unnecessary provocation", if there is any unnecessary provocation.

re #193 in their editorial the New York Times was angry that unarmed US and British monitors were taken out of harms way. The Abbas regime had been warned for a long time of the lack of security at the Jericho prison, in which prisoners were able to make cell phone calls at will, and visitors were not screened. This endangered the lives of the US and British unarmed monitors. Abbas had months, even years, to correct this, but he displayed his usual incompetence and did not do a thing. After Hamas spokesmen said that they were going to spring the prisoners, and Abbas agreed with that, the lives of the unarmed monitors were put in jeopardy, and they told Abbas that they were going to leave. Still, Abbas, in keeping with his incompetence refused to do anything at all except support the threats made by Hamas.
In castigating the governments of the US and Britain for not keeping the unarmed monitors in harms way indefinitely, despite the Hamas threats, the New York Times showed a reckless disregard for the lives of US and British unarmed peacekeeping personnel.