Uh, what manner is the "worst"?

Remember, they have the support of the liberals who also believe that... wait a minute.. I am so confused.

Nowadays, unfortunately, it's surprising he didn't get one.

Where's the outrage from the LLL?
*crickets*

Oh, now he says this after Arafat is dead and gone.

Wimp.

Speaking of Iran...

National Security Strategy

Download the .pdf...search on "Islam" or "Muslim"

but but the jews are so much worse, i mean look at poor Rachel Corrie.

The worst way possible? Probably means making them go to a Mosque and listening to the rants of one of your preachers neanderthals

Why the Gays aren't 200% behind this world war is beyond me.

Oh, NOW I see why the LLL aligns itself with the "Palestinian" cause and Arabs in general...oh wait...

are these the "moderate" Muslims everyone talks about in fiction?

#1 Sarah D.

Uh, what manner is the "worst"?

Forced to eat tofu until he kills himself to stop the pain:-)

No. 8 Stop insullting Neanderthals, please. (Grunt)

Some people make the argument that as long as Iraq is anti-Israel -- which it continues to be under the current regime -- like the rest of the Muslim world, nothing will really change, over the long term, in that country. Such naysayers are quickly shouted down by supporters of the Iraq effort, being admonished to understand the politics of the area. Now we see that Iraqi Shi'ites, our so-called friends, are virulently anti-gay. Will this also be brushed aside by war supporters?

according to this news article

That's a laugh. There ain't no way in hell the media is going to let anybody know about this.

I wonder what the worst possible way is? Probably being forced to root a typically ugly muslim baby popper without her veil on. That would make the average hetero want to die

that's Sistani, the Pat Robertson of the Shiite world.

Its a lot easier if you just use this...
[Link: www.sistani.org...]

#12 [Engineer]

Forced to eat tofu until he kills himself to stop the pain:-)

Ha ha ha. You funny man you. Just for that I'm going to slip you some tofu in your BBQ this year! So there!

#16 transferthem

Probably being forced to root a typically ugly muslim baby popper without her veil on.

Hey, I work with a Arab and she is hot! Of course, she isn't a Muslim so maybe that is what makes them ugly.

I wonder if His Emenence Sistani has seen this picture of President Ahmadinejad?

Why do I have that image from one of the anti-war protest signs "Queers for Palestine" stuck in my head? the moonbats just do not get that the people they've aligned themselves with hate everything they stand for.

(Yes, I know Al-Sistani isn't Palestinian and is a Southern Iraqi Shiite, but the larger point about Muslim theocrats and their alliance with western leftists is still valid.)

Do you think that gays can now report Sistani to the the UN Commissioner on Human Rights? I know the cartoonists are worse than Sistani (I lie) but surely...

Barbara Slavin of USA Today is fawning over Ahmadinejad on CSPAN2 right now.

I think she has a crush on him.

Le petit mort, ROP style

I have to have more info on this conversation (interview) Sistani has done alot for our Troops in Iraq, is it possible that this may have been taken out of context, I have been wrong before but I call BS on this.

I guess stoning just doesn't cut it nowadays.

That's it then. All gays shall be forced to wear panties on their heads unto death.

#27 hyphen

I don't think they ever stoned gays, I believe it was the "off the tallest building" for them.

Oh Queers for Palestine makes perfect sense to me. You see, if you piss on your friends (Israelis) and you embrace your enemies (Muslims), your enemies will eventually come to like and accept you. See?

/do I need one?

Hey, I thought Sistani was on our side.

@19 Sarah D.

You gonna make [engineer] tofu impaired? *lol

#27 hyphen,

In Saudi Arabia they force you to build a stone wall and then they knock it over on you.

Last time I saw engineer he was impaired...oh wait, that was at the BBQ. LOL!

Just because Sistani is on our side doesn't mean that he doesn't follow islamic idealogy as far as gays go.

I know plenty of Americans who I consider to be "on my side" who I do not agree with on many things.

# 26 - 'Nam Grunt -

You call BS on this?!?

What?

The man is a Shi'ite ayatollah! What do you think he believes in? "live and let live?"

I think you're having a hard time with this because to face facts here means admitting that the new country we're building with our blood and treasure will be led by this Stone Age fanatic's political party.

Who here, when the President announced the War on Terror on Sept. 20, 2001, thought that meant we would be establishing a government for the Ayatollah Sistani in Iraq?

I'm bringing extra tofu, just for [Engineer], you wait and see!

IM with the genius Kevin V

SHouldve kept Sadaam in power

He was most enlightened

Big "Brokeback Mt." fan I hear

@34'Nam Grunt

Careful there, you're gonna give him a complex!
Might be tofu-itis! *lolol

#36 KevinV,

Don't you dare start in on me dude, not interested! You are welcome to post what ever you like, but tend to your own business and stay out of mine!

#12 [Engineer]
Wow, rough crowd tonight...

#36 KevinV

Who here, when the President announced the War on Terror on Sept. 20, 2001, thought that meant we would be establishing a government for the Ayatollah Sistani in Iraq?

Heck, I thought it would be for the Queen Mother!

/good grief

I think it's hilarious you guys think Sistani is "on our side."

Yeah, he's pro-American. That's why he won't acknowledge an American when one is speaking, will not allow one in his presence and left a meeting when an American diplomat tried to shake his hand.

Sistani is on the Shi'ite side. Period.

The the extent helping us helps his people, he helps us.

The minute he decides helping his people means being against us, he's against us. And, in his core beliefs, while he is more moderate than the Iranian Shi'ites with regard to theocracy, he shares their beliefs.

All of them.

Every time Westeners forget about the religious nature of this world war, the enemy reminds us in the most forceful way possible what it's all about.

You cannot reform any religion by trying to reform the structure and mechanics of government.

#39 quarkey,

Nah! He's my buddy and he knows it. ;-)

Ah, someone shit on the carpet and it stinks.

I think I'll find fresher air elsewhere.

#47 Sarah D.

Don't go! We just got here!

# 45 - The Bruce

Bingo! DingDingDingDingDingDing

Give that man a prize!

If you think that the problem in the Middle East is not a lack of a democractic process, but that Islamism is wide-spread, pathological and wildly off the rails (as happened to the German culture in the 30's), if you think the problem is not a lack of liberty but Islam itself, you are much more likely to think that our current strategy is misguided.

If not, not.

I find it hard to believe, with all the evidence LGF supplies every day, that somehow people here still seem to think that Iraqi Muslims are somehow different than the rest in the essentials.

They're not.

He doesn't call for death, but

Protesters joined bagpipers, marching bands and thousands of flag-waving spectators at the St. Patrick's Day parade Friday after the parade's chairman compared gay Irish-American activists to neo-Nazis, the Ku Klux Klan and prostitutes.

link

Well, I stepped in it didn't I? Who knew there were so many Tofu addicts here.

'Nam, Do you really want to talk about us dragging you out of the shower Sunday morning?

Here's this least known fact about a certain Ayatollah:

The late Ayatollah Khomeini: In Iran, Ayatollah Khomeini instituted state procedures to help pay for sex-change operations in those who identified as transgender. See Transsexuality in Iran.

Scroll down to the bottom: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I googled Khomeini and transexuality upon learning an interesting fact from the History Channel's special about the Iran hostages crisis in 1979-80.

#51 [Engineer],

Ha! I'm never ashamed of having a good time, nothing to hide here, like some trash!

24- Ringo the G

Barbara Slavin of USA Today is fawning over Ahmadinejad on CSPAN2 right now.

I think she has a crush on him.

Well, he DOES look a little like Ringo Starr.

It's the splitting image of Suha Arafat:
[Link: www.guelman.ru...]

:-)

KevinV

Bush's plan is to create a Mideast that we can live with. It certainly will not be like America, but it may be something that will stop more conflict.

If this doesn't work, we can always do it the Curtis LeMay way. We would not be true Americans if we didn't give Bush's plan a fair trial.

If it doesn't work, then the other side of Americans can take over. We aren't to that point yet.

36 KevinV,

Sheesh.

What did you expect?...Disneyland?

The world is messy. Lower your standards, you'll be happier.

# 54 - Stuck in CA

Good Lord, you're right! He does look a bit like Ringo Starr.

From now on I'm calling him Ognir Ratts

#55

Dammit! Wrong thread.

Must be time for cowbell, I hear them comng! LOL! love those cap's.

# 56 - [engineer]

I fully agree with that. I think Bush's plan to allow for a democratic space to open up in the Middle East was fundamentally sound when made and, at a minimum, was worth a try.

Given the level of cultural delusion in the Islamic world right now, though (a good friend of mine in Egypt reliably reports that almost all Egyptians he has met in the past 6 months think "the Jews" are responsible for 9.11) it's hard to see a happy ending.

I do admit, though, that the impulse behind it is noble.

#61 'Nam Grunt

Must be time for cowbell,

You want cow bell?

#63 reaganite,

Hi bro', well I call them like I see 'em and their feet stink as well. LOL!

54 Stuck in Ca,

Well, he does look a little like Ringo Starr

I think Ringo Starr looks more like Yasar Arafat.

Pssst- MSM- I have a secret:

The economy is not in the toilet. No matter how much you try to brainwash people, and then report "polls" based on your brainwashing.

DOW HITS 5 YEAR HIGH!

#64 'Nam Grunt

well I call them like I see 'em and their feet stink as well. LOL!

It ain't just their feet...

#66 TMF,

Yeah but GM is 10.6 billion dollars in the hole, I told y'all along time ago don't buy a Chevy. LOL!

#67 reaganite,

Oh it must be all of those Elite sammiches it has won over that it brags about, when I see a cow it moos!

Does that also apply to all those Arab men having relations with young boys? He's have no followers left if he kills all the Muslims having relations same sex partners.

Just so we are all working from the same definitions, not in anyway intended to defend a death penalty assertion by Sistani:
Sodomy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sodomy is a term of religious origin used to characterize certain sexual acts. The term is most commonly used to describe the specific act of anal sex between two males, or between a male and a female. The term "sodomy" also may include non-coital sexual acts such as oral sex and other paraphilia. It is sometimes used to describe human-animal sexual intercourse (bestiality). Laws forbidding certain types of sex acts have been found in some pre-modern cultures and are prevalent in some industrialized nations as well.

ergo, a sodomite is one who engages in sodomy. All three religions, classical Judaism, classical Christianity, and Islam call for the death penalty for the practice. The majority of the states in the USA carried penalties ranging from 5 years to life imprisonment for conviction until a 2003 ruling by the USSC (6-3) ruled them unconstitutional.
Sodomy Laws in the United States...
-- DRG --...†
;>P

#69 'Nam Grunt

when I see a cow it moos!

LOL!

Hey dusty, welcome to the roundup. ;-)

#43 Kev

Hey, IMHO, I think Sistani is pro $$$

#52, #56

I think it is a waste of time, money and US lives. As mentioned before, until attitudes are changed the combat will continue.

What is the burn rate in Iraq? About 10 US lives and 10 billion dollars a month?

It appears to me that the bad guys think they are winning.

#74 ToxMan,

Ding, ding, ding give that man a cigar, Sistani knows who butters his bread, he ain't going to f'k up!

#73 'Nam Grunt 3/17/2006 05:15PM PST

hey bud, cow bells they are a sing'n...
troops must be doing well, the MSM is almost silent, and what they do wright is just seething with disgust that Iraq is moving forward...
-- DRG --...†
;>P

#75 ouray,

One question, have you ever been in combat three or two letter answer is sufficient!

#75 ouray

I think it is a waste of time, money and US lives. As mentioned before, until attitudes are changed the combat will continue.

That's why there is combat. To change attitudes.

#77 dusty,

Actually this OP is going well, from what I hear, and the Iraqis are performing magnificently, who knew. LOL!

ouray

a mind is a terrible thing to waste

65- Ringo

I think Ringo Starr looks more like Yasar Arafat.

LOL...Maybe they are cousins. They both have that camel look on their face.

#80 'Nam Grunt

Actually this OP is going well, from what I hear, and the Iraqis are performing magnificently

I heard on the way home on the radio a comment that "there has been no one killed. Don't know what that's all about with this Operation. Anyway..."

So the MSM whines when we have losses and now whines when we don't.

#80 'Nam Grunt 3/17/2006 05:23PM PST

I'am really proud of the troops, I imagine this is the toughest combat situation there can be, bad guys can blend way to easily...
-- DRG --...†
;>P

ouray
Registered lizardoid since: 03/05/06 03:21:21 PM

No. of comments posted (since July 26, 2004): 5

says it all...
-- DRG --...†
;>P

#85 dustyroadguy

says it all...

And it looks like it ran away already.

None of the Mobys have any staying power any more.

Anyone happen to read the Salon.com article on the Abu Graib abuses? One of the abuses cited was against three detainees who were caught raping a male teenager. I wonder what Salon.com's outrage would be if we had just turned the three men over to Al-Sistani for punishment?

#83 Ann,

Hi darlin', that's a good thing but ground OP's are still on going our guys are sweeping the area, house to house so to speak, so we'll see what happens in maybe the next three days, large cache's of ordnance have been discovered and blown in place, I know that makes that statue sitting next to you full of envy. LOL!

Friends, I have doubted the idea that freedoms could ever be imposed on any islamic society as long as that society holds to Islam in a Orthodox fashion...

Statements like this by Sistani are only a reflection across the billion member ummah of how they feel...I am no fan of the Gay agenda and it continually being thrown in my face...but that is a FAR FAR cry from wanting them dead as the Ummah does...

We are dreaming if we think we can ever have any kind of democracy in Shia/Sunni Iraq...

Only the Kurds for the most part understand what it takes to make a democracy work and I believe the North part of Iraq for the most part will be fine...

But the middle and south parts of Iraq are going to be hellholes ad infinitum...

It was and is a noble goal to try and help people but you can do NOTHING for a people that have a 7th cent islamic mindset...

Islam retards a person as well as retarding a nation...

It appears to me that the bad guys think they are winning.

Well then. That convinces me. Bring the troops home now.

#88 'Nam Grunt

large cache's of ordnance have been discovered and blown in place, I know that makes that statue sitting next to you full of envy. LOL!

It's going to take many years to get rid of all of the toys that Saddam had.

He seems pretty happy now, but I know he misses the blowing sh*t up part :-)

www.jimgoism.blogspot.com

It seems the left is now in a pickle of sorts..

They want to believe that the
Republicans / christian right is the enemy of the entire world...

Except for one SMALL problem...

We ARENT trying to KILL off the homosexual population...

But the muslims whom the left so loves..
And believe they can control have a different agenda...

And in case the leftists dont get it here it is...

The MUSLIMS WANT!
TO KILL!
ALL
GAYS, LESBIANS, TRANSGENDERED, NEUTERED, TRANSESTITES... WORLDWIDE...

#89 Albertanator

It was and is a noble goal to try and help people but you can do NOTHING for a people that have a 7th cent islamic mindset...

Of course you may be right, but we have to try.

We have never tried before because so many held your assumption.

We'll see. Those who fled from there that I have spoken with have done quite well, and are quite grateful to be out of that hellhole.

Some may be here on their mission, but I wonder how many jihadis were lost to the cause when they had choice in their lives for the first time.

I think that's the real reason bin Laden panicked and started his offensive on 9/11.

14 yehoshua. Excellent questions.

I still say we allow Iraq to split into 3 states. If they vote to keep a common currency, or if the Shiites decide to share some oil money with the Sunni state, fabulous. I'd guess the Kurdish region has all the established business and banking companies, so they would be fine.

/no, I'm not reacting to the MSM's salivating over a possible "civil war" I've felt this way from the beginning.

Sistani is what happens when someone is too Conservative...

Our soldier had some comments on this subject after returning back from a year deployment in Iraq.

Noted was what we would consider openly "gay" activities between men particularly. Kissing and hand holding.

Another was a statement made by many Iraqi's = "males are for pleasure, females are for babies"

24 Ringo gringo she craves a real man--not the feminized things she works with. She wants a man who knows how to scream "shut up, bitch" in several languages.

Albetanator

I believe people have an inate desire to be free despite any religion, oppressive or not

I suggest reading "A Case for Democracy"

Ann,

No worries, just don't let him talk you out of coming back to our BBQ, fly on a plane or not. ;-)

I think CAIR and the ACLU should have a little conference over this.

Sorry all, didn't mean to run away :-)

In my opinion, in order to solve any problem, including this one, you must define it with enough breadth so as to include a possible solution and enough depth to allow people to understand what is trying to be accomplished. I don't think that either of those criteria has been met here.

If I understand the situation correctly there are combatants arriving monthly from neighboring geographical states – and example of not enough breadth to allow the destruction of safe havens they are using to train and refit. And the goal of democracy is not a solution that can stand even the most cursory criticism as to solving the problem of “terrorism”.

From what I understand of the current combat, US casualties are on the same order of magnitude as that of the bad guys. It should be 100s, 1000s, or greater to one if we are going to have a chance to win this in a reasonable period of time - read casualties and $$.

I have never been in uniform.

With respect to the ad hominem attacks, I’ll concede I am an SOB and my mother wears army boots.

#84 dustyroadguy

I'am really proud of the troops, I imagine this is the toughest combat situation there can be, bad guys can blend way to easily...

I AGREE! If I could, I'd toast a brew to them right now, so the rest of you will have to hold up the FNDT for me.

We can also be proud of the Iraqi military and notably the bravery facing the threats against them AND their families, from the time they enter the line to sign up. They got some guts, and their numbers are increasing, and their improving.

...much to the seething of the LLL's that just continue to hope this whole thing fails.

#100 amyc,

I think that folks should take a breath re Iraq, and trust our Brave Troops and our great President, all of them are doing the best that is asked of them!

44 and 45 Kevin and AI--I agree with you in principle...but we are kind of stuck having to deal with these people for a while yet. And if Iraq works out, that's at least one more Arab nation where their main goal in life is not to kill Americans.

#94 amyc 3/17/2006 05:59PM PST

I think that might make Turkey and Kuwait very uneasy, although it has been suggested many, many times, particularly after GW-I...
-- DRG --...†
;>P

#101 ouray

If I understand the situation correctly there are combatants arriving monthly from neighboring geographical states – and example of not enough breadth to allow the destruction of safe havens they are using to train and refit. And the goal of democracy is not a solution that can stand even the most cursory criticism as to solving the problem of “terrorism”.

Operations, such as the current one being conducted near Samarra, are not just an operation. They are training excercises to eventually get the Iraqi Security Forces to a level where they can patrol, secure, and maintain the borders from the "neighboring geographical states". At which point, we hope that a greater portion of our soldiers can return home.

From what I understand of the current combat, US casualties are on the same order of magnitude as that of the bad guys. It should be 100s, 1000s, or greater to one if we are going to have a chance to win this in a reasonable period of time - read casualties and $$.

I highly doubt this. It is probably not very high, but remember, we DO NOT just go and shoot all combatants. We take prisoners, something THEY do not do. We ALSO treat the enemy wounded. Something they usually don't do either.

The LLL will tell you not to be judgmental, it's OK to be tolerant of other cultures so long as they kill their own gays in the worst way.

#97 amyc

She wants a man who knows how to scream "shut up, bitch" in several languages.

I have tattoo in Russian that says exactly that!

103 'Nam Grunt

I think that folks should take a breath re Iraq, and trust our Brave Troops and our great President, all of them are doing the best that is asked of them!

...and our government let them do they job they do best.

LLL's (Murtha, Dean, Boxer, etc.) let 'em do their job and quit criticizing and demoralizing 'em

#101 ouray

From what I understand of the current combat, US casualties are on the same order of magnitude as that of the bad guys.

Maybe you should stop watching CNN. We lost more men on D-Day than we have lost in the last 5 years of this war.

Nam Grunt, I'm married to one of the "troops" and waited for 3 hours to vote for the pres. I just don't think we will ever convince Shiite and Sunni muslims to be our buddies.

Getting them to stop trying to export their death cult here would be a good first step. I also have a son who is 9 years old, and will be furious if his generation loses half a million fighting muslims when whe should have done the job now, when it is easier.

GWB is a nice man and doing a sort of OK job...but I have major disagreements with the administration's handling of Able Danger, the commissions popping up all over the place, immigration, the deficit, ... and I'm a social libertarian, so all the heat and light going into social conservatism annoys me when we are dealing with a supremacist, expansionist ideology that wants to do away with our way of life.

I also understand that our citizenry isn't ready for all out war and letting our soldiers fight full force. But more forceful leadership and focus on what is important might convince more people.

93 Ann--no, we have never tried this before because so many people over there didn't want us to. Remember "the coalition" during gulf war 1...wouldn't allow us to remove Saddam then. It's not American bigotry that has stopped us from engaging over there. It sounded like you were accusing the albernator of bigotry.

#99 'Nam Grunt

just don't let him talk you out of coming back to our BBQ, fly on a plane or not. ;-)

Hey, we both survived a combat landing coming home the last time! Odds are we got the bad stuff out of the way!

#89 Albertanator

It was and is a noble goal to try and help people but you can do NOTHING for a people that have a 7th cent islamic mindset...

Islam retards a person as well as retarding a nation...

All it takes is one Friday...of religious clerics denouncing the "retarded", "7th cent islamic mindset".

All it takes is the mullahs preaching that it is wrong to want to kill all...

Look what happened when they had a change of face about the voting this past year.

#111 amyc,

My love for your soldier, and you have an inkling of what it's like to be a soldier, God Bless you, but those guys are doing their best to win this war, I know you miss him but believe me he is a hero!

#101 ouray 3/17/2006 06:08PM PST

In my opinion, in order to solve any problem, including this one, you must define it with enough breadth so as to include a possible solution and enough depth to allow people to understand what is trying to be accomplished. I don't think that either of those criteria has been met here.

I have seen this comment numerous times, but never an answer beyond the definitions already provided by W's administration, so bright one, have at it, give a definition it with enough breadth so as to include a possible solution and enough depth to allow people to understand what is trying to be accomplished...
with the following conditions:
1) innocents are protected to the greatest extent possible
2) respects the sovereignty of allies
3) doesn't involve genocide or ethnic cleansing
4) leaves the middle east and Israel intact
5) understands there is 'no' state of Islam
-- DRG --...†
;>P

Oh joy. This just makes me feel all fuzzy inside. (you 7th century piece of shit).

105 DRG I have a funny story my husband brought home from "school". Some guys were doing a briefing thing and said that the reason we oppose the three state solution is that the Turks would militarily attack any free Kurdistan. A Turkish officer (equivalent to US Major or so) stood up and pretty well bitch-slapped the guys. He was apparently quite offended, furious even, over the suggestion. My husband said it was fun to watch...

115 Nam...should have done "troops"

My husband is an Air Force pilot :-) He really, really hates mud :-)

and cold meals, and bases without golf courses, etc

/even though we don't golf

#112 amyc

no, we have never tried this before because so many people over there didn't want us to.

Which is exactly why we need to do this now.

Remember "the coalition" during gulf war 1...wouldn't allow us to remove Saddam then.

No, we followed the UN mandate to oust Saddam from Kuwait. The UN was so amazed at our efficiency that I think they were frightened. We were asked to stop and not pursue the Iraqi forces that were left in Iraq. Including Saddam.

It's not American bigotry that has stopped us from engaging over there. It sounded like you were accusing the albernator of bigotry.

Nope. We just didn't care about these idiots. I guess we have to care about them now, unfortunately. We will beat them back, though. Don't worry.

Look what the heck pops up at soccer fields these days - I always thought the crowds could get a little violent at the "futball" game sometimes.

Title: CACHE DISCOVERED IN SOCCER FIELD, FIVE DETAINED DURING JOINT SEARCH OPERATION

Release Date: 3/17/2006

Release Number: 06-03-01P

Description: BALAD, Iraq – Five suspected insurgents were detained and a cache was discovered in a soccer field during a joint search operation March 17, conducted in an effort to decrease and interrupt insurgent activity.

Soldiers with the 1st Battalion, 3rd Brigade, 4th Iraqi Army Division and 1-8 Combined Arms Battalion, 3rd Heavy Brigade Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division, Task Force Band of Brothers, cordoned off a large area suspected of insurgent activity.

Two of the five locations searched produced results. At one of the two locations, four suspected insurgents were detained. At the second location, a nearby soccer field, a cache was discovered and the fifth suspected insurgent was detained.
Stashed in the field was: one Soviet .50 caliber rifle, one Soviet anti-aircraft gun, one AK-47, one PKC machine gun, four rocket-propelled grenade launchers, six RPG rounds, 28 mortars, seven rockets, 100 pounds of C4 explosive, six hand grenades, two mines and other IED making materials.

The five detainees were taken to a secured location for further questioning.

#119 amyc,

But I love him and his service as much as you if not more, tell that zoomer to drop one for me. ;-)

#118 amyc 3/17/2006 06:28PM PST

LOL, I'll bet that was fun to watch, I had a turkish friend, quite a character, good drink'n buddy...
tell your husband 'thank you for his service' from an annoymous LGF poster and same goes for you because of your support and relationship with him, not an easy task for either of you...
-- DRG --...†
;>P

'Nam Grunt sez:

#75 ouray,

One question, have you ever been in combat three or two letter answer is sufficient!

Here's a helpful hint for ya, Nam Grunt: throwing your military experience around doesn't mean you win the debate.

Unless, like the Left, you are arguing that only those who have seen combat can have an opinion on the war?

That crap line is the inverse of the "chickenhawk" argument. It's morally indefensible, contemptible and a sign of a guy more interested in shining his medals than engaging in debate.

#119 amyc

My husband is an Air Force pilot :-) He really, really hates mud :-)

and cold meals, and bases without golf courses, etc

Thank him for us please. We are proud of them all.

Daughter is USArmy - had to spend a few days sleeping in an old chicken factory in southern Iraq, sleep out in tents in the desert during attack threats, sleep in locations on a building I'm not going to disclose for the safety of other soldiers just to be able to break from the intense summer heat...

#72 reaganite

Hi. I know I'm pretty new here, but what are you guys talking about with the cow stuff? If you don't mind my asking.

122 Nam. Well, his next plane will be the E-8. The only thing they could drop would be their satellite dish. OK by me, except it would leave a lot of army guys blind down there. I'd love it if they could tie a little daisy cutter to the belly...just for fun once. A friend got to see those after they dropped them out of a C-130. Said they are interesting.

Boy, you guys are hard to have a conversation with!

#110 reaganite
Maybe you should stop watching CNN. We lost more men on D-Day than we have lost in the last 5 years of this war.

What does this have to do with the current ratio? My point is that this rate is unsustainable, by us or the Iraqis. Since you mentioned five years, just how long do you think this war is going to last?

#106 AngryAmerican
I highly doubt this. It is probably not very high, but remember, we DO NOT just go and shoot all combatants. We take prisoners, something THEY do not do. We ALSO treat the enemy wounded. Something they usually don't do either.

Wrt the wounded, see above.

If you look at historical information, such as WWII J and E, the Indian wars in N. America and the civil war, societies don’t think they have “lost” until at least five percent of the population is killed. Sometimes it takes more. One branch of my family tree had to be essentially exterminated before they stopped fighting. Think smallpox.

But hey, I could be wrong. Maybe that democracy thing will work out.

#124 KevinV

Here's a helpful hint for ya, Nam Grunt: throwing your military experience around doesn't mean you win the debate.

Here's a hint for you, your State Dept "experience" doesn't mean you are even in the debate.

#124 KevinV

you are arguing that only those who have seen combat can have an opinion on the war?

That crap line is the inverse of the "chickenhawk" argument. It's morally indefensible, contemptible and a sign of a guy more interested in shining his medals than engaging in debate.

No, but those that have been in combat, DO have the experience and that entitles them to more of an "expert" opinion than those that have not. An experience that I cannot say I have, but having a family member close to you that has, at least opens your mind up to different opinions. Something that the media and LLL seems to be lacking.

Ouray...yes, I have often said that I think we are trying to implement the Marshall plan without defeating the enemy over there.

#126 patriotleslie

but what are you guys talking about with the cow stuff? If you don't mind my asking.

There is a pompous cow here on LGF who is never wrong, never makes a mistake, will never admit to even being an American. No facts will get in her way, no reason will sway her.

The cow is a troll that somehow never gets banned.

#124 KevinV

throwing your military experience around doesn't mean you win the debate.

Why are you so threatened by 'Nam? We have met him. He's as good a man as I have met.

He is simply supportive. Not debating anything.

But you are upset about his positive outlook.

#128 ouray

Boy, you guys are hard to have a conversation with!

Noone is safe in the turf of:

L - lotsa
G - great
F - fun

#128 ouray

What does this have to do with the current ratio? My point is that this rate is unsustainable, by us or the Iraqis.

You're really not that bright, are you?

Since you mentioned five years, just how long do you think this war is going to last?

As long as it takes. What, do you think this is a football game?

Idiot.

#124 KevinV,

I don't have to shine anything I earned them, I have never bragged about anything I did in my 13 years of service, and you can go f'ck yourself as far as I concerned! I asked you not to post to me.

Good one reaganite. I'm not tossing my State Dept experience around like some sort of medal.

I know you, and I've read your posts for a looong time. I know enough from that to know you're intelligent enough to know that "I was in combat! Shut up unless you were in combat!" is not a winning argument.

130 Angry American
Something that the media and LLL seems to be lacking.

sometimes I think people like you and I would be better "military analysts" than the folks the MSM has on. And I'd sure like the 100k + salary to bloviate about stuff I don't know.

I heard some stupid Starr woman on the CNN radio news segments they play on our talk radio station. Sounded like she was heavy breathing over some inquiry into marines and an accident that killed 15 civilians.

'Nam Grunt,
Now I have a question for you!

Once upon a time a long long ago I was up in Ft. Lewis wandering around and I happened on a training schedule for the division. Looking it over, to my amazement, I discovered bayonet training?! I thought about this for a while and couldn’t come up with a reason for it. Sometime later I was out wandering around with some guys that wore funny green hats (back in the day when the only other funny hats were black and worn by guys with really broad shoulders and narrow hips) and I asked a guy I knew about it. Paraphrasing, since I’ve slept since then. “Jim”, I say, “what’s the deal with bayonet training? If you are on the offensive and you run out of ammunition you are going to withdraw – not fix bayonets and charge. And if you are on the defensive and you run out of ammunition the bad guys are just going to shoot you. WTF?”

So what do you think he said, or should I say what do you think.

Hey, you wrote it Nam Grunt. Not me.

If you want to take it back, feel free to do so. But until you do, the fact is you tried to win a debate by BRAGGING about your combat experience, which has NO RELEVANCE whatsoever to that particular exchange.

It's in writing and it's above. People can see for themselves and judge.

Time for green beer...good night.

#124 KevinV 3/17/2006 06:36PM PST

'Nam Grunt sez:

One question, have you ever been in combat three or two letter answer is sufficient!

Here's a helpful hint for ya, Nam Grunt: throwing your military experience around doesn't mean you win the debate.

Unless, like the Left, you are arguing that only those who have seen combat can have an opinion on the war?

That crap line is the inverse of the "chickenhawk" argument. It's morally indefensible, contemptible and a sign of a guy more interested in shining his medals than engaging in debate

the more you comment the more you look like the asshole you are...
-- DRG --...†
;>P

#137 KevinV

I know you, and I've read your posts for a looong time. I know enough from that to know you're intelligent enough to know that "I was in combat! Shut up unless you were in combat!" is not a winning argument.

You know, I liked you much better in the old days. You didn't use straw man arguments back then. You've come back recently acting like that clown that worked in the Pentagon Library. David all?

Really, you used to be better.

#135 Reaganite

I can't be an idiot, they have an IQ less that 25 and can't write.

p.s. That is ad hominem attack, you can look it up.

#139 ouray

So what do you think he said, or should I say what do you think.

What do I "think" he said or what do I know what he said? Fucking idiots like you have no clue about military service. We train for everything. You? You whine.

#143 ouray

you can look it up.

I don't have too. I know exactly what it means.
Here's a clue for you. You're a POS.

#116 dustyroadguy

If you over constrain the problem it has no solution.

#139 ouray,

Well dumbass I was a Drill Sergeant for six years and bayonet training was for confidence, you must have been one of the duds that sat in the aid vehicle while the rest of the company were trying to become soldiers!

#139 ouray

So what do you think he said, or should I say what do you think.

What is the point of this? Should the military do away with take-down training or survival skills now?

Or are you trying to out 'Nam?

Sorry, he's for real. KevinV is threatened by military posters, so I guess you are too.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

146 ouray 3/17/2006 07:00PM PST

If you over constrain the problem it has no solution.

you consider the following:
1) innocents are protected to the greatest extent possible
2) respects the sovereignty of allies
3) doesn't involve genocide or ethnic cleansing
4) leaves the middle east and Israel intact
5) understands there is 'no' state of Islam
over constraining the problem ?
-- DRG --...†
;>P

When did LGF become a trash-the-military site?

#148 Ann

KevinV is threatened by military posters, so I guess you are too.

Do you guys do anything but personal attacks?

It still stinks in here. Oy.

#151 ouray

Do you guys do anything but personal attacks?

What is your point?

What do you want to say?

Quit ankle-biting and bottom-line it.

#138 amyc

I heard some stupid Starr woman on the CNN radio news segments they play on our talk radio station. Sounded like she was heavy breathing over some inquiry into marines and an accident that killed 15 civilians.

Oooo...a heavy breathing reporter...I'm going to let those that have had enough green beer to add to that.

"15 civilians" - it is pretty hard to distinguish between what the MSM portrays as civilians and combatants.

Combatant - shoots gun or RPG - puts weapon down - now a civilian.

Read about this, and apparently it sounded like a firefight occured. A position where civilians can get caught in the crossfire, AND where militants can shoot the civilians and spread the word that US did the deed.

The good thing about allies is that they agree with us enough about something, but the bigger truth is we don't know how much we don't agree about everything else.

you consider the following:
1) innocents are protected to the greatest extent possible
2) respects the sovereignty of allies
3) doesn't involve genocide or ethnic cleansing
4) leaves the middle east and Israel intact
5) understands there is 'no' state of Islam
over constraining the problem ?

1) what are innocents?
2 )who are are allies in the ME (besides Israel)?
3) ok
4) other than Israel, why?
5) agree, but there are Islamic states.

So, yes I do.

#156 ouray

So, yes I do.

I still don't get what you are trying to say or what your point is.

#101 ouray -- "From what I understand of the current combat, US casualties are on the same order of magnitude as that of the bad guys. It should be 100s, 1000s, or greater to one if we are going to have a chance to win this in a reasonable period of time - read casualties and $$. "

Where to you get your statistics from? Near as I can tell in the MSM, they have an accurate count of our military dead and casualties. But in most accounts I read, when ever the US attacks we only inflict casualties on "suspected insurgents".

The MSM is not counting casualties on the other side because that wouldn't serve their anti-Bush agenda. They won't count enemy casualties because that involves an admission that the USA has an enemy. If we have an enemy, then maybe we might have a reason to be in this fight. The position, however, of the MSM is that we are terrorists conducting illegal wars of agression and occupation in Afghanistan and Iraq against innocent people that Georgechimphalliburtonmchitler uses to scare us. There is not enemy, so how can we count them.

We do kill "suspects" without proper trials, that will be the subject of the MSM's next round of anti-US and anti-military bashing from the LLL/MSM. The MSM may quietly be keeping statistics on "suspect" casualties.

My wife and I are gay, most of the time, as our two sons! Sistani and his ilk want us to die in the worst way possible, for being light-hearted, carefree and gay!

The Islamofascists seem to be really threatened by happy people, and-

What? They use 'gay' to mean WHAT?

So they kill homos, with extreme prejudice, too?

Sick, sick, sickos!

156 ouray 3/17/2006 07:22PM PST

1) what are innocents?
2 )who are are allies in the ME (besides Israel)?
3) ok
4) other than Israel, why?
5) agree, but there are Islamic states.

So, yes I do.

based on those lame responses, I would go further than reaganite, you are worse than an idiot you are an insulting provocateur, I'm done with you, have a good evening and comment to your heart's content...
Beannachtaí na Féile Pádraig ort freisin!
-- DRG --...♣
;>P

I guess islamists won't talk to women.

Scared by them, too.

And we have guns that we like.

BOO!

#159 Carridine 3/17/2006 07:35PM PST

My wife and I are gay, most of the time

LMAO !
Beannachtaí na Féile Pádraig ort freisin!
-- DRG --...♣
;>P

Ouray, your reasoning was faulty back then, and quoting it now as if good, shows you still hold to the same faulty reasoning.

Google 'bayonet charges', and you'll see that there are people still alive today who have led successful bayonet charges! There ARE times, circumstances when they work.

In training, they enhance self-confidence. In war, they gut the enemy.

#157 Ann
I still don't get what you are trying to say or what your point is.

My “point is” I think we are wasting good men and women’s lives, $$$, and time on an effort that even if it succeeds as defined will fail to stop “terrorism”.

We need a better plan based on reality, not on wishes.

P.S. Idiot, dumbass, POS, “as long as it takes”, et al are not really very effective arguments. Kind of funny though.

So let the FLAMMES begin.

#161 Ann 3/17/2006 07:40PM PST

you have a charitable heart and carry a gun, what more could a man want !
-- DRG --...†
;>P

#164 ouray

My “point is” I think we are wasting LOST good men and women’s lives, $$$, and time on an effort that even if it succeeds as defined will fail to stop “terrorism”.

THAT'S EXACTLY THE REASONS FOR NOT GIVING UP THE MISSION AT HAND!

No, it will not stop terrorism. Nor will the war in Afghanistan, nor finding Bin Ladin, nor finding Zarqawi, nor removing the nuclear threat in Iran...

But each peice chips away at the "wall" just as it took about 50 years to break the "wall" of the Cold War and communism in Europe.

#150 Stop Hillary

Where to you get your statistics from? Near as I can tell in the MSM, they have an accurate count of our military dead and casualties. But in most accounts I read, when ever the US attacks we only inflict casualties on "suspected insurgents".

I suffer from the same dearth of hard casualty data that you do. But I know we have not inflicted 3 million casualties, nor 300,000 casualties, as that would be all over the MSM. I doubt we have inflicted 20,000 casualties since major combat ended.
My best guess is the ratio is less than 10 to 1.

#164 ouray

on an effort that even if it succeeds as defined will fail to stop “terrorism”.

No, we are stopping the occasional generation islamist surge. We are kicking ass, by the way. Good news for me, but I guess it's bad news for you. Sorry about that reality.

Idiot, dumbass, POS, “as long as it takes”, et al are not really very effective arguments.

Sorry. I'm married to him. And I hope that we are there as long as we have been in Germany. Generational occupation in order to civilize a population is better than genocidal destruction.

What is your solution?

#165 dustyroadguy

you have a charitable heart and carry a gun, what more could a man want !

How charitable is a heart that takes no shit?

:-)

Seriously, I am tired of what LGFers tolerate with these idiots.

I've only found this place in the Spring of '04.

Those who have been here longer are really over the BS that passes as viable here now.

Off to sleep.

Thanks. You are one of the good guys.

#166 Angry American

LOST

Point taken!

I disagree with you wrt your "chipping away" plan, although I hope you are right.

The last few presidential elections have been decided by the thinnest of margins. It is my opinion that at the present rate of progress, enough of the US public will quit before the “chipping” is complete. Then we will be in for another nasty one. I would like to deal with this sooner rather than later.

/gota go – past my bed time

#170 ouray

I would like to deal with this sooner rather than later.

Wimp.

Lest anyone forget, it was Thomas Friedman who nominated this fine fellow Sistani for a Nobel Peace Prize:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

In visionary-of-our-time Friedman's words:

...maybe most important, Mr. Sistani brings to Arab politics a legitimate, pragmatic interpretation of Islam...

There you go: killing gays in the worst manner possible is both "legitimate" and "pragmatic."

Time for the homos of the world to bow down and ask Bush for forgiveness.
Isn't it ironic? Don't cha think.

I`ve said it here some time ago and i`ll say it again:
The conflict between muslims and homosexuals,in western Europe,will be the one factor that will force the radical left to choose sides,and they will reluctantly stand with the homosexuals...and that is when they will unleash the radical left media against islam,and that will bring about the recognition that islam is the enemy ,and how to fight it and defeat it.
It is sad,though,that the left feels like there is nothing worth defending in our western culture other than homosexuality!

The Grand Ayatollah: Pat Robertson in drag.

Muslim logic:

Homosexuals should suffer and die.

Pedophiles are ok
Incest is ok
Goat f*er's are ok

So what's with that butt-up thing when they pray anyway?

He is the voice of moderate islam in the country. The person that can stop a riot with a word. What would liberal gay organizations think about him? No gay pride parades in Iraq, it would be a shooting gallery. What does CAIR think about gay marriage, is it an insult to all muslims as the ACME cartoons?

You can't play chess either. Gay Chess Players will get killed twice.

My view of Sistani is that he is a moderate pragmatist with a lot of power. He could have tilted the Iraq war in Al-quaida favor and didn't.

The anti-gay message I think is just a typical work of moderate islam that seems natural to them. Someone should get CAIR on record about this. In Arabic on Al-jazeera not in that lying english dialect they like to use.

People around him get killed and he tells his followers not to riot. He is not a hot head like Al-Sadr.

You're not going to change a millenium of cultural rigidity overnight. What Sistani has actually done will advance the cause of liberalism in the Middle East by a measure greater than anything he's said will restrict it.

So, Sistani thinks homosexuality is sinful. Would anyone like to check with Zarqawi and get his take on it?

#178 hazzyday

What does CAIR think about gay marriage, is it an insult to all muslims as the ACME cartoons?

That is a damned good question.

#44 American Infidel

P.S.S. I luvvv it ! ! !

You are truly a sick piece of shit. I don't understand why you're still here.

#179 hazzyday

You can't play chess either. Gay Chess Players will get killed twice.

Hey! Muslims invented chess!

/or at least they think they did.

Powderfinger says:

You're not going to change a millenium of cultural rigidity overnight.

What!?

That's it. I quit.

I can see that the Flick and Flack of lgf are at it again. Some things never change.

Why do I think this won't matter to our leaders? Just as "moderate" Muslims' hatred of and support of terror against Jews don't matter either. Someone tell me why a gay American should support people like this. I know the terrorists are worse, but if Sistani believes this, why wouldn't he implement it if he could? Just like Afghanistan's constitution, I am not thrilled by the heavy hand of Islam in these "free" countries.

I didn't sign on to this on 9/11. I thought we would declare war on our enemies. I guess it just depends on the meaning of the word "enemy." I still support the President, and I grade the Muslim world on a curve, but still...

To be fair, there is at least one American to compare him to.

White speculated Keiser was planted by the GOP.

No, I think he hasn't been paying attention to what the Democrats are today. They try to appear as tolerant today.

Baldy, have a look at this. There's an open question here.

Also, let's keep in mind that Sistani is a religious leader, and is not in a position to be dictating legal punishments. So, if this is not a hoax, it's the equivalent of Jerry falwell saying gays should be punished, etc... Idiotic, sure. Indicitive of America? No.

87 nmdesertrat - You do know that in Islamic law the victim who gets punished? At least the cases I read of female victims, the woman is punished, often by death. All around, it's a big stinkin mess. Ataturk had the right idea. Anything less leads to savage cruelty.

188 Powderfinger - I saw it. Don't buy it.

188 Powderfinger - We are setting up defacto Islamic republics in this WoT. It is not what I thought we would do. The crap about Islam in their constitutions is opening up a can of worms. Either we nation build, or we don't. Now Afganistan wants to kill a Christian. I wonder if that is important to our leaders? Gays sure aren't.

Baldy, they're nations full of muslims. You were expecting Jewish nations to result? Or maybe that we'd be able to bomb a few millenium of backwardness out of them? That we'd blast some common sense into them? Why on earth would we expect that 99% muslim nations would not tip their hat to Islam in their constitutions?

There's going to be some dragging them, kicking and screaming. We cannot impose laws on people and then tell them that they're sovereign. We need to keep pointing them toward liberalism, and, yes, they need to take the steps.

Even if the story is true, Sistani is not the government. Show me when the government is actually executing people (or even passing death sentences) and I'll flip out with you.

Until such time, this is nothing but an opinion.

If we're going to lose our minds everytime Iraq or Afghanistan comes to a crossroads...before they've even made a decision, let alone a bad one...we might as well just all crawl under our beds now and wait for them to come and get us.