first or second

This is a God and he's not allah

Welcome home & good luck.

I suppose there will be apologies from those of you who said she had some terrorist VD.

good for her

48 hour rule lizards

Like I said yesterday, we needed to give it some time. Glad she's safe.

Zombie?

I suppose there will be apologies from those of you who said she had some terrorist VD.

I apologize. My MSM bs meter might be too sensitive.

Yay...is all I can say :)

#4 tomboy
Don't excpect too much. The tide may turn again, although I think it's doubtful at this point.

I apologize for the comments i made about her being a useful idiot...unless this is an april fools joke

I can only imagaine the moonbat impersonation I'd be putting on if I were kidnapped by the ROP. Having said that Jill Carroll is forgiven in my book. This whole episode probably knocked her leftism a little to the right.

Not going to apologize yet. If the words have meaning later on, I will.

Anyone ever read any of Carroll's reporting? I've seen only one piece on an Iraqi family devastated by a terrorist car bomb. She does actually seem pretty fair and accurate ... no sense of any hidden agenda.

I humbly retract my comment after seeing the video, and may Ms. Carroll remain safe and in good health after her return.

I'm happy to hear that she has some guts and integrity!

I wasn't too worried about her earlier statement as I figured that was whatever her terrorist kidnappers wanted her to say.

It's what she says after she gets home and can say whatever she wants without fear that matters.

I am happy to hear it...I hope this gets as much play in the media as her first statement did.

#8 jrdroll
My anger remains directed at the CPT hostages and certainly at Susan Osthoff for putting us in the postion to have to doubt wether these kidnappings are real or not. Not to mention the danger that they've put other journalists and "real humanitaians" in.

#14 tompain
Yeah, I read through her stuff and it seemed pretty fair to me too although I couldn't seem to convince people otherwise. Looks like I'm wrong on #10, the apologies are rolling in.

I have very little use for the CSM these days as I have read far too many hit pieces there submitted under pretext as news stories. Having said that, regardless of this lady's (unknown) political beliefs she has my respect; I rarely read such clarifications from any hostage and she, at least, has the courage at this point to speak out and not wait for handlers to poll the wind. She has character.
Welcome back.

It seems pretty obvious now, from her statement and that of her spokesman, that she was abused and threatened...many times. I'm glad she's made that unequivocating statement though. These days anyone could be made to do anything with the torture these devils mete out. But rather than the weaselly nonsense that came from the CPT, Jill has spoken out loudly that she was forced to make statements. That, to me is utterly understandable. Glad for her and her family that she's home.

Bravo for her!

Having said that, the bar has been set rather low when we praise people for saying muderous terrorists are bad.

#18 kilgore
tough to know what to believe when the jihadis infiltrate the news distribution.

Ack!
murderous vice muderous/pimf

#19 rayra

Carroll's betrayal of Western Civ began before her arrival in Iraq, and it will continue long after today's spotlight has faded.

You don't know that her 'betrayal of Western Civ' will continue long after today. Lighten up man. People change. I was once young and dumb. I am embarrassed to tell people of my prior beliefs and actions. But, I changed after I got a little more information. Let's give people like her a chance to change. Your tough stance on things like this will drive people away. They will ignore you when you have a valid point to make.

Welcome back Jill. Glad you did the right thing and told it like it is.
Welcome home from the claws of Islamist Evil.

#19 rayra

Unbelievable.

Look, I’d like to see a fairer balance of news stories out of Iraq but I don’t confuse reporters who don’t cover the story the way I would with traitors and jihadis. There is a difference whether you acknowledge it or not.

She says she was debriefed by US authorities and has coopoerated with them. What more do you want her to do? She maybe a lefty but that's not grounds to wish someone ill.

I really hope you never are on a jury or appear before one with people like you on it. You know it all and evidence to the contrary be damned.

Repost from the previous thread. It is more OT here. Thanks for posting this, Charles:

#55 LSD,

Thanks for posting that. I'm glad she set the record straight once she was out of harm's way. I don't know what I would have done in her situation, but likely I would have done the same thing. I'd have been choking on every word, and would have (as she has) set the record straight as quickly as possible.

There's no question that there are traitors among us, but this lady doesn't appear to be one of them. I thank G-d that she made it out alive, and wish her a speedy recovery from what has to be a hugely traumatic episode in her life.

The truth is, this shows the Islamofascists for what they are: brutal cowards. It's not hard for a roomfull of men with guns to intimidate an unarmed woman. A roomfull of men with guns would intimidate me.

She sang a different tune, when she was safe. I await the Muslim riots over the disrespect that she was shown by her captors.

[Crickets]

OT; "Charlie Sheen and Scientists Agree" has been added to the rotating titles. HA!

Glad she's back. I feel sorry for the friends and family of her translator.

Carroll's Employer Thanks EVERYONE (except the US)

The Monitor wants to add its gratitude to everyone who is helping Jill return home. In addition we want to thank again all those in the Iraqi press who have been tireless in their campaign for Jill's release; we wish to thank the politicians, sheiks, and clerics in Iraq, Jordan, Egypt and other countries who have spoken out as well. And we need to thank all the citizens of Iraq, regular people like you and me, who continue to speak out strongly as well. We are in debt to too many people to thank them all. Jill will be home soon. As she writes, it is a time for healing. Let the healing begin.

Maybe someone could tell them she is free, they can safely pretend to be pro-American now, if they so desire.

Considering the recent statements by that scum CPT ex-hostage, I expected Jill to fall into the same mold. Unless we hear more, I'm glad I was proven wrong about her. Unless you're ever held by beheading trash, you'll probably never know quite how you'd react. Welcome home Ms Carroll. And, I hope you've provided our military with valuble information. I hope.

#15 Frank_Mtl 4/1/2006 02:08PM PST
I humbly retract my comment after seeing the video, and may Ms. Carroll remain safe and in good health after her return.

Ditto -- I lumped her into the pile of moonbattery that is the media. Glad she wasted no time repudiated her "statements".

#33 Baldy
"In the US military and officials have been extremely generous, and I am grateful for their help. Throughout this ordeal, many US agencies have committed themselves to bringing me safely home."

#33 Baldy

Good catch --

#25 rayra

I disagree with you on Carroll's reporting. I just read a piece on progress vs. lack of security in Iraq from about a year ago, and she seemed to be scrupulous in presenting the good as well as the bad. The headline is typical bs, but as a former reporter I know all too well that reporters are often not consulted on headlines.

Here's an excerpt from that article:

While unemployment is about 48 percent, according to the Ministry of Labor and Social Labor and Social Affairs, salaries are higher for the jobs that are available, typically ones linked to the government. Salaries of teachers, bureaucrats, and policemen, have gone up, as have pensions. The starting salary of a policeman is about $220, enough for a family to live on and, to many Iraqis, worth the risk of being targeted by insurgents. Some pensioners and teachers have seen their income grow tenfold.

As a result, many families say they can now afford meat with most meals and a wider variety of fruits and vegetables. This, despite prices that have spiked by about a third on some food items, including meat, fruits, and vegetables, according to merchants in Baghdad. But canned foods, soft drinks, and bananas, virtually taxed out of existence before the war, are now available at a fraction of their Hussein-era prices.

Electronic equipment has also been flying off the shelves since the war opened borders once shuttered by sanctions.

Many Iraqis can also afford a mobile phone, a modern convenience banned under Saddam Hussein. Egyptian-owned Orascom Telecom, which provides mobile-phone service to Baghdad and central Iraq, had 82,000 subscribers at the end of 2003, the year the company began operating in Iraq. By November 2004, it had signed up 480,000 subscribers and is now planning to reach 1 million subscribers by the end of this year by spreading its services to southern and northern Iraq, according to the company's web site.

#14 Some of her writing before her kidnapping is still available at the CSM website. She seemed to be focusing on elements of the Sunni population who were struggling to become part of the legitimate political process and how the Shiite and Kurdish forces were thwarting them. I would say her writing was slightly pro-Sunni, but nothing she reported seems inaccurate or what I would call propaganda, and there seemed to be a legitimate attempt to report both sides. I'm not sure where her pre-kidnapping "moonbat" credentials are coming from - perhaps someone could enlighten us with a link? I warned in the previous thread on Carroll's kidnapping that jumping to conclusions only helps the enemy.

I want to be judged as a journalist, not as a hostage. I remain as committed as ever to fairness and accuracy _ to discovering the truth _ and so I will not engage in polemics.

Translation:

Don't ask me to say nice things about what coalition forces are accomlishing in Iraq. My fellow journalists will blacklist me if I do.

I'm with Rayra on this one.

Watch the video of her arriving in Germany. She looks happy to see the US military, and they her. I am glad she is free & hope she was not harmed while in captivity. Her employer, though, has released a statement which makes no mention of the US, which tried very hard to find & save her. The Christian Science Monitor should be ashamed.

Postscript: To Every man and woman who wears the uniform of my country, Thank You! You're better than me, and, I'm better because of you.

#40 gus3

She repudiates polemics and you attack her? Read post #38. She has reported on the coalition's accomplishments in Iraq, more so that many other reporters, in my opinion.

Is it so hard to say we were wrong?

36 Killgore - Yes Jill Carroll was gracious in thanking the US. Her paper was not. My opinion of her is positive (her smiles coming off the plane seemed genuine, as did her demeanor). My opinion of her employer is negative.

#40 gus3

You left out the next line of her statement:

But let me be clear: I abhor all who kidnap and murder civilians, and my captors are clearly guilty of both crimes.

Nice editing job. Ever think of applying for a gig at the NY Times?

I hope that she writes a detailed account. She mentions "criminals" here.

I wonder if they were former baathists looking for money or jihadis. If they were jihadis, an accurate account could go a long way in educating those in the West who still have blinders on.

I say good for her. For those who have been through interogation training (military) we know that captors have all the advantages, mostly time, and most people (especially those who have not been trained) would say just about anything to get out of the situation with their head still attached. The proof of her beliefs, contrary to the christian peace activists, appears to be her comments post release. Like Charles said, her translator is unavailable for comment.

#47 eddiespaghetti

From one Eddie to another, ditto's.

I hope that she writes a detailed account.

Me too. It will be interesting to find out exactly what happened during those 12 weeks.

I'm sorry, but the video she made prior to her release certainly seemed like she was speaking her mind and not from any prepared statements. Especially when she laughed when asked if she had any message for Bush.

Voice: Do you have a message for Mr. Bush?

Carroll: (Laughs)Yeah, he needs to stop this war. He knows this war is wrong. He knows that it was illegal from the very beginning. He knows that it was built on a mountain of lies and I think he needs to finally admit that to the American people and make the troops go home and he doesn’t care about his own people.

Watching this segment, I really thought she was speaking her mind, and not that of her captors.

#44 Baldy
Ah, I see your point now. I'm sure there will be plenty more thanks (maybe even one to CAIR), statements, apologies, etc. Especially after the CPT creeps had such a hard time even faking a "thanks" to the US.

I apologize for my assumptions about Ms. Carroll's role in this, and I hope she remains safe now that she has spoken out against her captors - they are not forgiving people.

My best wishes for her future, and I hope that she stays a skosh further away from the danger zone in the future.

I hope that her former captors and the murderers of Mr. Enwiya are captured and punished accordingly.

As for journalism - it is, I think, a disservice she does to herself when she implies that a stronger response on her part would be a "polemic."

Glad she is okay and spoke up the truthfulness of her ordeal without pandering to the left or the right. Obviously she knew the risks as a free press journalist. CSM should be ashamed for the whole damn thing in the first place, put their journalists at risk without any protection from the US troops or Iraqi security forces.

However, by making today's statements, Jill is also putting future would-be hostages at risk of being killed if the jihadists get the wind of Jill's statements and make notes of it for future hostage-holding situations.

I am glad I didn't prejudge this (except in thought - I must say I doubt people who are mysteriously released). I must admit I thought it odd her family friend interviewed on Hannity & Colmes didn't know if she was Muslim or not. She is from Ann Arbor. Still, I decided to wait on saying anything. I'm glad I did. She was gracious in thanking "US agencies." Her paper is an anti-American rag though, and could not remember to thank the US. The CSM thanked everyone Muslim in the ME. CSM could not bring themselves to thank the US who worked hard to free her. Crappy paper.

Very interesting. But what does it mean?

/April fools....

Now Hollywierd will put her up for an Oscar because that was a great job of "acting" in that video.

/still on the fence

#50 Bob's Kid

It will be interesting to find out exactly what happened during those 12 weeks.

I'm thinking it may be the more secular baathists.

I doubt the jihadis would have let her live. Although she did mention how bright the idiot mujahadeen was in the video.

We'll see, I guess.

I'm glad she's free and that she cooperated with our military. I like to hear good news from LGF from time to time!

#48 rayra

I didn't defend her. I only said wait to see what she says when she is free from coercion. That's not defending someone that's refusing to make an ass of myself by jumpiing to conclussions. Try it sometime.

It must be nice living life wrapped in a cocoon of certainty and knowing everyone’s motivations while only accepting things that fit your preconceived conclusions.

You are just as bad as the media you claim to abhor...you don't want to let the facts get in the way of your story line.

Reply however you wish but I won't be engaging you any longer. Lief's to short to deal with people like you. Even if you have something worthwile to say about something it's not worth the time wadding through the other crap to get to it.

Personally, I'm glad she published a retraction. Now I don't have to fire up my
D-9 CAT and she lives another day....

OT WTF is happening at MIT?

[Link: www.alternet.org...]

Occam's Razor cuts both ways people. Usually it is the Left getting sliced up. This time it is the Right for jumping to quick at the throat of a would-be-moonbat.

She does not have a publicist, handler or PR firm to pre-parse her words before publication. Although she probably has a better command of the written word then most people, she is still just one person. If she forgets to thank all the right people, use all the politically correct language or say something to please every constituency it is not evidence of a conspiracy. It is evidence that a short statement or sound bite may not always convey the breadth of ones feelings or beliefs.

Watching this segment, I really thought she was speaking her mind, and not that of her captors.

I think she did a pretty job at surviving, considering she was probably thinking she was going to lose her head - and now she has a chance to repudiate her statements made under duress, as well as voice her sorrow and anger over the death of her interpreter. So far she'd doing the things to set the record straight.

If she helps bring these scum-thugs to justice, then she's really done all she can in regards of the kidnap/murder.

I'll see what she's like a few months from now ...

#46 Ann,

If they were jihadis, an accurate account could go a long way in educating those in the West who still have blinders on.

I hope you are right, but I fear you are wrong. If they haven't gotten it by now, after all the beheadings, the kidnappings, the suicide bombers, and IEDs, then one more account is unlikely to sway them.

There are none so blind as those who don't find it in their self-interest to see.

And that is the kindest interpretation I can put on their behavior.

A hostage ordeal where one is confronted with the evil brutality of the Jihadists may prove to be the crucible through which a nieve reporter changes her tune on who the real bad guys really are. Awaiting further comments from Jill Carroll...

#59 ferris:

It's not poor Lief's fault that he's short.

Otherwise, you're 100% correct.

#44 Baldy

What it took from the hearts of many people to free Jill Carroll

Monitor editors and reporters, along with Jill's family, pursued all possible avenues for assistance. Late at night and early in the morning, from the start of this ordeal until its end, they were aided by US, Iraqi, Jordanian and other government officials, as well as private organizations, such as Reporters Without Borders.

They seem suitably thankful to me. There are more acknowledgements in other stories on CSM.

#63 LSD

Well, I was never in the camp that thought she engineered her own kidnapping, but I read some of her earlier works on CSM's web site a few months back and it was the usual LLL doom and gloom stuff. That led me to believe that she was there to "speak truth to power", expose US imperialiasm, yadda, yadda, yadda. I may have been wrong on that, but I don't think so. I'll do my due diligence and go back and read some more if I can find it.

But either she was speaking her mind in that "coerced" video, or she's a damn good actor and should be doing TV journalism.

I am not retracting anything yet. All I said was that this was the best thing to ever happen to Jill Carroll, and that she will be laughing all the way to the bank. She'll be writing a book soon, as she should, and she'll be on every talk show, I'm sure Larry King can't wait. She's going to need an agent.

Do I hold this against her? A little bit, but, afterall, she had the guts to go there, and she is a survivor. So, why not make a few bucks? She risked her life.......

Too bad this Jill couldn't either be silent or speak truth to power, at least speak truth to the "power" that held her. No, she had to go off and do a promo video for her captors in the name of self-survival. This woman is no Fabrizio Quatorze, and deserves no kudos or sympathy from me.

#61 piglet

OT WTF is happening at MIT?

It appears that they've been infected with idiots, too.

Iranian nuclear weapons could be put to three dangerous purposes: Iran could give them to terrorists; it could use them to blackmail other states; or it could engage in other kinds of aggresssive behavior on the assumption that no one, not even the United States, would accept the risk of trying to invade a nuclear state or to destroy it from the air. The first two threats are improbable and the third is manageable.

Uhh.....Einstein. The head dude already declared his intention to wipe Israel off the map, and to do it with nukes. And remember that little bit of unpleasantness between 1939 and 1945 in Germany? Did we learn anything from it? Like when a fanatic says that he intends to kill you, you believe him?

I do wonder about the words she made AFTER being released, but before leaving Iraq, to the Iraqi relirious party. Could be she was still shook up & scared. I do doubt people who are journalists in general, who go to document the "suffering" people. Yeah, they're suffering. They've suffered for decades. I will continue to give her the benefit of the doubt, though, since she may just be a do-gooder type, and not a full-fledged anti-American. I felt a little guilty about jumping on those Christian Peacemaker Team people, so quickly, but in that case, I knew exactly what they were treasonous scum. Tom Fox didn't deserve to die though. I give her (& even Margarat Hassan) more leeway. I do have nuance. Her paper's a rag, though.

#69 neverquit

...she had the guts to go there...

I'll give her that. I don't know that I'd have the guts to do it.

Gosh, this crow sandwich I'm eating is so tasty!

munch munch munch munch

Like I said, I would be happy to be proven wrong, and I am. I apologize for my previous comments. Good for her.

Victor Davis Hanson:

One of the great lapses in world journalism is investigating what happened to the 100,000 criminals let out by Saddam Hussein on the eve of the war. Thus the terrorists have succeeded in making all the daily mayhem of a major city appear to be political violence — even though much of the problem is the theft, rape, and murder committed by criminals who have had a holiday since Saddam freed them.

Obvious question, How much of what goes on in Iraq (especially kidnapping). is plain old fashion criminal enterprise?

Glad she made the statements. My crap impression of her was because of the "political party" interview, I wasnt much aware of the closeness between them and the head hackers.

At least one reporter now has a close up and personal idea of what scum the jihadis are. I doubt very much she will be given a platform in any major publication as she will be seen as "biased" against the head hacking scum.

#64 Iron Fist

There are none so blind as those who don't find it in their self-interest to see.

I know we live in a military town, and we normally run into sane, well-informed (first hand) people.

I think many more people get it than we think, however. The LLLs are so emotional that they tend to bleat louder than sane people. It doesn't take many like that to make it sound like a bunch of hyenas.

That's why the LLLs were so shocked that President Bush was re-elected.

#70 RickZ:

Her job was to do whatever she could to stay alive. I daresay that you'd have tapdanced naked and then some if there were men with ak-47s and sharp knives standing off-camera.

Oh, and:

GO PATRIOTS!

#72 Baldy

I do wonder about the words she made AFTER being released, but before leaving Iraq, to the Iraqi relirious party.

What are you wondering about? Read her statement:

I also gave a TV interview to the Iraqi Islamic Party shortly after my release. The party had promised me the interview would never be broadcast or aired on television, and they broke their word. At any rate, fearing retribution from my captors, I did not speak freely. Out of fear I said I wasn’t threatened. In fact, I was threatened many times.

Don't forget the jihadis had told her that everywhere in Iraq, even the Green Zone, had been infiltrated. I wouldn't feel safe before being back home in my own bed.

67 Killgore - OK. I will raise my opinion of them a bit. Thank you. It appears their spokesman did a bad job. Wonder if he spoke off the cuff? How could he mention all those types of people, & countries, and forget the US? Maybe he goofed. It's possible. NOW - I do wish that if countries/leaders can't avoid giving in to terror, they leave Iraq/office. I'm thinking of Italy & Iraqi leaders who freed women prisoners. It makes all of this more likely.

GO PATRIOTS!

Beware GM has a campus in: DUBAI

I notice the LLL boilerplate which ticked me off remains unretracted. But that's just the usual MSM BS. So now I only dislike her as much as most other journalists. Not much improvement.

80 tompain - Read mine.

# 78 Jheka:

I dare say that you don't know me. I might have been pissing in my pants, but I would not willingly aid and abet my enemies. If she doesn't have the right stuff to be a true journalist, ala Ernie Pyle, then she should quit her day job (it's hell trying to "make a difference and change the world" you know). She became an all too willing tool for her "kidnappers," her belated bleatings of "innocence" nothwithstanding. Do you really think she has seen the light, that she will now understand who we are fighting and why? I don't.

Dear Ms. Carroll,

Are you lying now or lying then?

Sincerely,

U.S.

I think that Ms. Carroll's future actions will ultimately reveal the truth - if she ends up at a Cindy Shi-head or Rachel Corrie rally we'll know where her sympathies lie. Until then, I remain undecided based on the conflicting evidence. Though, I have to admit that her current statement is rather gutsy and it effectively ends her career as a reporter in the [bigoted word] world (they'd Ginsu her if she ever returned).

I'm glad I reserved my judgement of her. I will not fault someone who lied to save her life. I would like to believe I would spit in the face of my captors and sing God Bless America, but that would probably get my head sawed off and mailed to my parents.

I would rather outwit the monsters who captured me, get home and then tell people what really happened, including taking the opportunity to tell the soldiers what I saw in hopes they would be able to use the info to save others and capture more terrorists.

Sometimes the brave thing is to swallow your pride and do what you have to do to get away so you can fight another day.

Que bueno

I have had doubts, but not allowed them to make a negative concrete opinion of her. I still don't like her paper though. I seem to recall it's a well-respected part of the MSM - which means anti-American & anti-Bush. HOWEVER, she also worked for the Wall Street Journal, which except for it's love of Chinese slave labor & Mexican criminals, seems to be OK, and "thinks" America's OK. I hope she has a peaceful reunion with her family.

CHALLENGE TO JILL CARROLL

If you really believe the statement that was released in your name

Make a video renouncing the previous one that has been shown in the Arab countries

Send the video to all the Arabic networks demanding they show it

Say in no uncertain terms what the kidnappers are

that they did threaten you

Wear your Arabic costume and also wear American clothes

Speak in Arabic and in English

Demand the new video be shown and the previous one be withdrawn

CHALLENGE TO JILL CARROLL

#84 Baldy

I did read your post, and I wonder what you're wondering about. She's been very clear that she would like everyone to disregard statements she made while under duress or fearing retribution. I think she deserves at least that. I'm judging her by the articles I've read, and so far, I haven't seen anything other than the fairness and truthfulness she claims.

Why do you put quotes around the word suffering? Terrorism causes suffering in Iraq just like it does here or in Europe or Bali. Would you say New Yorkers "suffered"?

#85 Rick Z:

You're right. I do not know you. I DO know that it is the RESPONSIBILITY of captured soldiers to do whatever they can do to stay alive if they are captured. We do not hold journalists, men or women, young or old, to a higher standard. Hell, for Jews, life comes first and if she was Jewish she would have been judged to have done the right thing if the issue was the video or her life (as she may well have reasonably believed it to be).

I'll go farther. It takes courage to do what is necessary to survive. To stubbornly stick to ideology in the face of near certain death is not courage or virtue of any kind. It is merely suicidal, useless stubborness.

#81 Baldy
It's fuzzy about what acutually led to her release. Many of the statements regaring ranson payments have left some room for interpretation, the release of woment prisoners and most important to me; The US trained Iraqi special forces are really cracking down on hostage takers! The Shia mosque "massacre" last week was one such operation(link available upon request), the CPT hostage resue was another. The Germans and Italians stink because they've been paying ransoms and funding the jihad.

CHALLENGE TO JILL CARROLL

If you really believe the statement that was released in your name

Make a video renouncing the previous one that has been shown in the Arab countries

Send the video to all the Arabic networks demanding they show it

Say in no uncertain terms what the kidnappers are

that they did threaten you

Wear your Arabic costume and also wear American clothes

Speak in Arabic and in English

Demand the new video be shown and the previous one be withdrawn

CHALLENGE TO JILL CARROLL

I agree...

Well, I'll apologize anyhow. I never said anything online about Jill Caroll being jihadist scum, but the day I saw that video, thats exactly what I thought.

#45 ferris:

Without clear delineation of who is included in "all who kidnap and murder civilians," she is leaving open the interpretation that coalition soldiers are doing likewise. "Everybody's doing it" thinking.

As for "I want to be judged as a journalist, not as a hostage" point, why doesn't she simply come out and say, "I want to be judged as a human being, held to the same standards of life and liberty that apply to everyone else"?

I'll tell you what I think: she doesn't want to. She wants to avoid being held to the same standard. It would take a major book from her, repudiating her colleagues' reporting (at CSM and others), to get me to change my mind on that.

#62 jester6:

If "handler or PR firm" doesn't include her editors and other staff at the CSM, then what does?

Way cool. I'm happy that she is fit inside as well as outside. This was my hope.

I saw a picture of her with a huge smile, next to USAF Col. Kurt Lohide, also with a huge smile, welcoming her to Ramstein. She had on regular clothes, and her hair rays were in full effect, so I figured all was ok.

Now she wants to get back to work, apparently. Good sign.

# 92 Jheka:

Yes, you are right, American troops are trained to do what is necessary to survive captivity. They are also instructed to provide no aid or comfort to the enemy, even promo videos. In Vietnam, many soldiers were tortured to the breaking point before they succumbed to the indignity of being used in any form of enemy propagnada. Show me her torture scars. And torture does not include surviving without an expense account.

#97 Catttt
Thanks for your support when I was swimming against the current on this one.

If making the statements she made got her released, more power to her. The statements she made were correctly interpreted, for the most part, here on LGF comments and those statements will serve the propaganda mill of the Islamists for a long time. Now, who chose for her to go to Iraq for what reasons? She is lucky to be home, she has served the purposes of our enemies, and now she should make a life for herself and occasionally contemplate the the consequences of her actions.

#85 RickZ

You have absolutely NO idea how you'd react to someone standing near you with a long bladed knife who you KNEW was ready, willing and able to slowly cut off your head while you screamed. Keep in mind, journalists are not trained in counter-captive tactics as are military personel. Whether or not Ms Carroll is a lefty or not, is irrelevent. She survived something you probably could not have. Speculating what you'd have done, while pontificating anonynously at your keyboard, doesn't quite cut it. Even if she IS an anti-American moombat, which I doubt, she is renouncing her previously taped comments. Should we cut her some temporary slack, YES.

I don't blame her for doing Muslim propaganda, for the captors, and the Iraqi political party. I wish she didn't, but I can't say what I would do. I have been incredibly brave in my life, and incredibly fearful. It depends. How would her refusal to do the video have meaningfully helped the war effort? She just would have been killed. That is assuming they would truly have done so. I still wonder about who took her, & why. She may have believed they would kill her though.

I wonder why Margaret Hassan was killed? Besides her captors being savages, that is. Did she have no money, refuse to do a video? I wish we knew more about who is taking these hostages, and why some are released, some killed quickly, and some, like Carroll, keep getting "reprieves." Could be they were stupid savages, and just didn't think it all through. It would help in the future knowing why some live & some don't. I sure hope our govt is looking into it.

#85 Rickz
As you alluded in your post I do not know you either. However, like jheka #78 said, and like I have witnessed, I garen-god-damn-tee you that with 4 days with a profesional interrogator you would be a puddle of goo willing to say just about anything about your country or your mother for that matter. They wouldn't even have to leave a mark on mark on your little pink body. This is not a flame, its just the truth and unless you have been interrogated, you do not know how you will react. Its easy to have a boat load of mochismo at a keyboard but quite another to be faced with death with no training in the matter. Again, I dont mean this to be a flame, I just question if you have the life experience in this matter to point a finger. Cast no stone...

#78 Jheka:

Her job was to do whatever she could to stay alive.

I disagree: it was her choice, not her job. I won't fault her for that choice, nor will I fault those who choose otherwise. Remember "Now you will see how a real Italian dies"? (or something like that)

How would her refusal to do the video have meaningfully helped the war effort? She just would have been killed.

Right. I would have done the video, then recanted...(what's she doing?)...

# 102 cheesehead:

Sorry, she gets no slack from me. I'm with rayra on this one, not that he needs anybody with him.

Also, my comment on the military and being held prisoner was in response to another poster. I agree that she is not military, and probably has no surviving captivity skills. That still does not change my opinion of her as being a member of the Fourth Estate/Fifth Column.

Oh - I discovered who killed Margaret Hassan

In this case, the Americans, Allawi and the Israelis, all of whom are running rampant through Iraq had the most to gain.

Dr. Sam Hamod ... is also the former Director of The Islamic Center in Washington, DC;

Hope this guy is being watched & listened to...

I Was Wrong, I Am Sorry
*
*
I have been banging the drum with a theory about Jill Carroll's complicity. I am relieved that she is safe, heartened that she is not the type of person I thought, and quite happy to be wrong. To have been wrong, that is.
*
I should have given more leeway, more caution to the side of grace than I did in interpreting inconsistencies in her statements. Instead, I rushed to condemn a woman who had done nothing wrong, and to criticize an American caught in a hazardous position overseas rather than offer support.
*
I will replace my accusatory blog posting with a better-developed letter of apology than this. Common decency, of which I have displayed an appalling lack, dictates that the willingness to admit and repudiate mistakes is the "price of admission" for speaking of others in public. I will try to make amends.
*
I apologize to Jill Carroll and her family.
*
I frankly hope that they never saw my remarks regarding Ms. Carroll. I am ashamed to have impugned the integrity of a woman who had done me no wrong, from the comfort of my living room.

Sincerely,

Haakon Bjoern Dahl

#98 RickZ:

Show you her torture scars? Why do you think you're owed that? Maybe you haven't been paying attention. The Jihadis aren't known for torturing. THEY'RE KNOWN FOR MURDERING.

If a U.S. soldier is captured by these animals and faces certain death, he would be violating his duty if he did not do everything in his power, including making a video, to stay alive until he could be freed or escape.

Just a thought in passing, remember what some of our soldiers have had to “confess” while held as captives of the NVA or the North Koreans.

A video made under duress is evidence of our enemy's evil. They may think it helps their cause, but it's debatable. Reasonable people can see through it. I won't blame her for the video(s) while captive.

haha figures that idiotic lgfers would jump to conclusion to hate her. It's like people on this website troll the news looking for reasons to hate people.... so much hatred on this website that they couldn't even give Carroll the benefit of the doubt. Truly a testament to how bad the environment of this website has become.

#105 gus3:

When Fabrizio Quattrocchi uttered those words, he knew that he was about to be murdered in several seconds. There was no hope of survival whatsoever. He was brave in the face of death. Had he goaded the animals into murdering him with bravado, he would have been more idiotic than brave.

Any fanatic can choose death. One of the key differences between us and them is that we love and value life, including our own.

Look at rayra, basically calling carroll a coward for lying under coercion. So I suppose you would tell the truth even under the threat of decapitation?

Oh, gawd. Charles left the barn door open, and look what slithers in......

Wasn't it banned once under a different spelling?

I was one who jumped on Ms Carroll for the statements she made while apparently still under threat by her captors. I do heartily apologize, and am glad to see that I was off base in declaring her to be a collabarator. I am indeed happy to be wrong, and I wish Ms Carroll well. Perhaps she will use her experiences to further the American cause in Iraq.

Awww, isn't that sweet? Let's all give the angry little monkey a BIIIG hug!

((HUG))

Damn, my flea collar fell off...

#114 cokane

Have you even BOTHERED to read anyone else's post other than rayra? No, I guess not. Dumbass.

I am still on the fence. Let's wait until she publishes a book about her experiences and starts traveling around the country giving lectures about America, the Great Satan manipulated by the Zionist Neocon Conspiracy. Or not. If not, I will say I was wrong.

#99 rayra

Your list of offenses seems to argue that she is guilty because the focus of her reporting was sometimes convenient for those who would like us to leave Iraq to the jihadis. But actually reading her work (I just finished the Slate piece on Iraqi voting) reveals that the idiot pacifist left would need to cherry-pick from her articles to find support for its views. She frequently alludes to coalition efforts to improve the situation, and she repeatedly puts the blame for the chaos that exists on the terrorists. She does quote Iraqis saying anti-American things, but do you think that never happens?

I will grant that the Slate piece is more gloomy than the CSM pieces I've read, but there is a good deal of gloom in many Iraqis' lives these days. I don't accept that Jill Carroll needs the tarring and feathering you seem to think appropriate just because she doesn't want to whitewash the situation. There are plenty of reporters who do far worse. I think she deserves some credit.

A British Allahpundit is born

[Link: muslimactionablecommittee.blogspot.com...]

The Simpsons revolves around the antics of bald, beer-guzzling family man Homer and his spiky-haired son Bart.

Why should we accept such role models? Alcoholics with wayward children and women and girls shamelessly showing their bright yellow skin. This is not Islam. I urge all our supporters to contact Twentieth Century Fox and tell them that Muslims will not accept such gross insults. We don't want special treatment, just compliancy. We must get this cartoon banned. All Praise is due to Allah, Lord of the Worlds and blessings and peace be upon the Mercy to the Universe, our master Muhammad.

At least, I think he's kidding.

Poor Rayra is in the difficult position of being completely incapable of admitting that he is wrong ... about anything ... ever. It's a truly terrible condition that he shares with one or two others here on LGF.

Good for thos here who have shown the maturity and character to acknowledge when they might have been wrong.

# 114 cokane, blow me. Jill Carroll's bio isn't even half written yet. Time will tell if she proves to be yet another usefull idiot or your ilk or changed woman finally awakened to the biggest threat to western society. Pre-emptive gloating is folly on your part.

Killgore Trout -

I apologize to you as well, my friend.

rayra:

'Now I'll show you how an Italian dies!'
-Fabrizio Quattrocchi

I have to agree with you that she did not act with integrity by making that video, complete with laughter. Fabrizio Quattrocchi had integrity. I would want someone like him at my back.

I suppose I was wrong about her--I thought she was another traitor who engineered her own kidnapping to benefit the jihadis. But she went into a war zone on her own. US soldiers should not be endangered saving people who are so irresponsible. She did all she could to save her skin. Most would. I don't blame her for that, but I sure don't respect it either.

#114 cokane

It's like people on this website troll the news looking for reasons to hate people

Troll? Did someone say troll?

Let me also add that cokane is a damned idiot.

Excuse me I may not sharpest knife in the drawer or the best reader but I re-read this article in the Christian Science Monitor and could not find the words American (s), soldier (s), Terrorists, or Hero. Jill did reference the US Military in her statement. To me the skeptic, it sounds like a thank you note to someone from travelers’ aid.
She said her captors threatened her many times but she did not say how. In the video her appearance did not indicate physical abuse, as a matter a fact one of the talking heads’ said she seemed to have gained some weight. To my untrained eye she seemed pretty convincing in the video about her captors treating her well. Maybe my feelings about her will change. Her next article will be written under the freedom that her travel agency (The US Military) provides us all here, and many abroad.
When I read those words I will know more about her.

#121 Have you read any of the past Carroll threads? People who weren't named rayra said things like: "we should have left her to die in Iraq" ... I'm talking about the past threads where idiots like Zombie, Rayra, and otehrs had conspiracy theories that Carroll was in cahoots with the insurgents.

She was not... and it was ridiculous for LGFers on the whole to jump to such a conclusion. This website is full of fanatics and conspiracy theorists who cannot see events as they truly are.

112 rayra - I would hope I could be like that noble man, Fabrizio Quattrocchi. I can't say I would be. What about the POWs in Vietnam, who blinked out "Torture," in Morse Code? I have no problem with them.

When Fabrizio Quattrocchi uttered those words, he knew that he was about to be murdered in several seconds. There was no hope of survival whatsoever. He was brave in the face of death. Had he goaded the animals into murdering him with bravado, he would have been more idiotic than brave.

Exactamundo.

#132 cokane

So we're "conspiracy theorists who cannot see things as they truly are"?

Oh please, enlighten us.

People here can be forgiven for being cynical and thinking Jill Carroll had gone "native" after giving that interview.

After all, she wouldn't have been the first hostage held by muslims to come out of captivity spouting pro-Islamic mumbo jumbo. You only have to think of that demented hag, Yvonne Ridley, or that barking mad cow Italian reporter last year.

QUICK TEST--jILL ARE YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT ISRAEL?

That will tell the truth
but for what she went thru--welcome back home!

#127 mama winger
Apology not accepted! You have nothing to apologize for. We dissagreed , we debated politely and rationaly. There aren't now nor were there ever any hard feeling whatsoever.
Same goes for Zombie if he's out there somewhere. You guys are smart and rational and we'll debate in the future I'm sure.

#132 cokane

My reading challenged friend. I wasn't referring to previous threads, I was referring to THIS thread, which, unknown to you apparently, contains a majority of complementary comments about Ms Carroll. You also refer to "fanatics". Look in the damn mirror my friend. Have a great weekend. sniff, sniff, sniff.......

#138 Killgore Trout

I am glad that you were right.

My, my, my !

Another thing:

If (and I don't know one way or another) Jill Carroll turns out to be a leftist, Kucinich supporter who donated to MoveOn.Org and voted for Kerry, IT DOESN'T MATTER. She's an American who is entitled to whatever views and beliefs she happens to have. Tens of millions of people voted for Kerry. Many millions think that we should get out of Iraq, don't like Bush and think that Michael Moore is a swell guy. You know what? They're still Americans. They're still OUR PEOPLE just as we are all their people.

She doesn't owe it to any of you, including those of you throwing out challenges to her from the comfort of your homes, to share your views about Iraq or anything else. She was kidnapped and apparently did what she had to do to survive and gain her freedom. Now that she is home and safe, she can go back to being an American which means, first and foremost, that she can express or not express any views that she may have as she chooses.

She does not owe anyone anything.

I must say I have a problem with Western women in Muslim countries. I don't like em being there. Not safe. Can't stand any of the videos either. Just want the jihadis dead. Vidoes under duress just show how vile the enemy is.

Should not type when duranged. Take care everyone. Tired.

100 Killgore Trout

:)

For the edification of “citizens” like cokane:

I am an American fighting man. I serve in the forces, which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender my men while they still have the means to resist.

If I am captured, I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action, which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me, and will back them up in every way.

When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am bound to give only my name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.

I will never forget that I am an American fighting man, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles, which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

Army-Admin Cen-Japan

[Link: indianarollingthunder.com...]

Baldy:

I have a problem with Western women in Muslim countries. I don't like em being there. Not safe.

I agree (BTW, also holds true for men who aren't trained in combat). If anyone goes into a place like Iraq on their own they should arm themselves appropriately and be prepared to fight. Otherwise. Don't. Go. Don't put US soldiers at risk to save your a**.

#142 Jheka

Excellent point.

Is there anything cooler than the setting sun casting shadows on massive supercells in Oklahoma, and near Childress, TX, and maybe one developing near San Angelo.

Look where the upward momentum of the main updraft is so high it carries past the tropopause into the beginning of the stratosphere, before sinking again.
An ordinary thunderstorm updraft hits the tropopause, where the atmosphere stops cooling with height, and stops rising, but a manly supercell updraft keeps going.

That manipulative American military... Did you see how they coerced and threatened Carroll into recanting her honest interview she gave to the gracious people who hosted her during her past three week sabbatical?

/sarc

#142 Jheka

IT DOESN'T MATTER

BS. It would make her another faux objective MSM liar. I still think she's a leftist tool who thought her sympathies for the enemy and opposition to the war would keep her safe. Her idiocy got her translator killed and herself captured.

Let's see what she has to say down the road.

Hurrah! Good news from a journalist!

Man, that video sure looked convincing. If it was truly a put-on I think that she should move to Hollywood and start a new career

Rayra:

In your world, there's you, a few of your close acquaintances, a few random, like minded cranks and millions and millions of people who certainly are or might possibly be leftist traitors and jihadi sympathizers.

#152 reggie

LOL! I will grant almost anyone a "temporary" reprieve, until proven otherwise. If she starts spouting off dumb-sh_t, I'll change my opinion in a heartbeat. Those who are unable to give her ANY benefit of the doubt, are, by definition, no better than liberals. Ouch! I know that hurt.

OFF TOPIC

I'm doing this project on human communication, spare me 30 seconds and take this tiny survey.

[Link: members.lycos.co.uk...]

I think that those who are brave to the bitter end deserve admiration.

But not all of those who can't measure up to that deserve scorn.

How many LGFers have been into life-or-death situations? Been under harsh interrogation? Some have, maybe, but not all.

#160 Maha G.

Done....

a stupid lgfer once said:

"I wouldn't have been caputed alive in the first place, you miserable troll twat. I would have fought / resisted until I either won or was killed."

ROFL

# 153 beagle:

BS. It would make her another faux objective MSM liar. I still think she's a leftist tool who thought her sympathies for the enemy and opposition to the war would keep her safe. Her idiocy got her translator killed and herself captured.

I do believe that's a 100% correct assessment of this shrill shill Jill. I also don't believe she will ever be able to take responsibility for her own stupidity, what her stupidity cost. She's a journalist, after all, and such things are mere trifles when it comes to the media front in this war.

# 163 ctp

Don't happen to have any popcorn, do you ?

#161 FabioC

When the fundraising candy bars went missing, Sister Bridgette interrogated me for over ten minutes. Pulled the tiny hairs by my ears and rapped my knuckles with a ruler. Does that count?

I see, she makes one statement loving the hell out of the terrorists and makes another saying she didn't really mean it.

Which one am I to belive? Why should I believe her latest statement is honestly what she thinks? Where's the proof she actually cooperated with our military?

As for her being an American, if she goes to a war zone where US troops are fighting and criticizes our soliders, she's a traitor. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, here in the comforts of the USA. What I do not believe you are allowed to do, as an American, is insert yourself into the fabric of a conflict where US soliers are dying and through your bullshit media propoganda give aid to the enemy.

I don't believe you'll find that right in the Constituation or Bill of Rights.

rayra:

I would have fought / resisted until I either won or was killed.

Agreed. This I respect.

Jheka:

...there's you, a few of your close acquaintances, a few random, like minded cranks

cranks? Did you mean to say 'brave men'? The ones who will stop the jihad?

#166 Mike C.

No, not tonight. Just lurking and taking it easy... Watching a hockey game...

#162, rayra, Folks are'nt right. This site has not gone to hell. You're still here and many more who like and love ya. If there's an influx off asshats don't let it get to you. You Rock and always have.

#152 reggie

In case of any misunderstanding of my previous posts last comment, my comments were directed at others, not you. I saw your /sarc.

No. 27 ratherdashing:

"You don't know that her 'betrayal of Western Civ' will continue long after today. Lighten up man. People change."

Maybe she will be like Saul -> Paul.

We could use that.

#153 Beagle:

She can agree with the MSM. She can be a leftist. That's her absolute right as an American.

I no more blame her for the death of her translator than I would have blamed Michael Yon if his translator had been murdered and he had been kidnapped. I blame the murderers, not the victims.

Everybody who blames her for being there:

Do you blame Yon the same way? Did you condemn Bill Roggio?

Rayra, we could sit here and debate our "woulda" behavior for eternity and it would amount to nothing. Saying what you "would have" done is meaningless. But I'm glad that it makes you feel brave--you clearly need the reassurance.

#164 cokane

a stupid lgfer once said:
"I wouldn't have been caputed alive in the first place, you miserable troll twat. I would have fought / resisted until I either won or was killed."

I'd hope I'd do just that, and have in a few situations...

You sir, no doubt, would bend over and say, "ahhhh"

Ok, if there was coercion, I can overlook her statements.

But let's see where it goes from here.

I don't trust her, but time will tell.

I'm still entitled to skepticism, right?

Jheka,

I know this is going to be shocking, but there's a lot of folks here who think you are the dumbass.

Go snuggle at the daily kos.

#161, Hilarious. But tell us, did you squeal or did you rattle the "code of conduct" off by heart?

A stupid LGF troll once said:

177 cokane 4/1/2006 04:24PM PST

Rayra, we could sit here and debate our "woulda" behavior for eternity and it would amount to nothing. Saying what you "would have" done is meaningless. But I'm glad that it makes you feel brave--you clearly need the reassurance.

#176 Jheka:

Do you blame Yon the same way?

Umm. Yon seems to be taking quite good care of himself. He's a fighter. He's not wandering around just knowing everyone will be really nice to him. Don't know about Roggio. I'll check your link. Thanks.

That's the game with the sticks, right ? Don't believe I have a dog in this particular hunt.

#114, cokane, The environment of this site was alot better until the likes of you showed your ugly face. Take a f...ing hike and the air will be better for it.

And another thing Jheka,

I know this is missing you completely, but Jill Carroll has no right whatsover, as an American, to be in Iraq at all, let alone say what she feels.

Our rights under our rule of law stop at our border. In Iraq, she has no rights at all.

So spare us the bullshit.

OK, I will be frank.

My mother was kidnapped and raped at knifepoint. She lied and manipulated her way out of the situation and saved her life.

I would do the same.

It is easy to sit here and claim you would stand up and be super brave at the end, but the vast majority of you have never been in that situation. I'd like to think I'd be super brave, too, but I don't know. One time when I was in a serious situation I DID lie and claim the police were on their way. That delayed my attackers enough for two family friends to come and save me.

I am glad my mother did what she had to do to survive and anyone who claims otherwise who has not been there is nothing but a blowhard. I suppose she should have used her vast kung fu skills and sung the star spangled banner, and shouted that American troops were going to bust down the door any second, but instead, she lied through her teeth and saved her life.

I'm glad she did.

Anyone expecting Jill Carroll, who is not a trained military man, to be able to endure psychological torture, incarceration, and threats like a military man is being ridiculous. She's a civilian and I don't expect more of her than that. She's now coming home. I await further word from her and hope she has a lot of important information to share with us about what happened to her so that she may help others.

So, maybe some people at LGF doesn't want any the rest of us at their back, fighting to protect Western Civilization from the barbarian hoard because we wouldn't stretch our neck out when someone comes to cut it off (HELL, I'd be claiming I WAS RIGGED WITH AN EXPLOSIVE HOMING DEVICE THAT WOULD GO OFF AND SEND IN A MISSILE IF MY NECK WAS SEVERED), but in my humble opinion, Western Civilization won't be saved by people who are willing to die stupidly. As I recall, disinformation is another aspect of warfare. Lying to the enemy is fair game and if it saves your life and enables you to save the life of others, then it is a smart game, too.

#184 Mike C.

It's a man's game. Any game where the players are equipped with sticks and blades is a man's game.

#96 gus

Editors and people in a newsroom are not the same as handlers and PR people. If you have never dealt with them they may seem the same. But they are very different.

Kind of like everyone with a gun and camo might look the same and many of them know the same people; but once you talk to them you realize the zealot and mercenary are totally different animals.

And besides, back to Occam's Razor, she has only been out for a few days. She just got back into Europe. Probably getting ready to board a plane to the US as I write this. Do you think she has been using sat phones to join into conference calls discussing how to massage her message with folks back at the CSM?

I stand completely with Rayra on this one.

Frankly, I'm surprised at the naivete of some LGF posters. It's one thing to be happy the young lady has been freed, it's quite another to misconstrue her real motives or not be able to understand LLL "journalistic" sleight of hand. In earlier years I also did major undercover stories for the MSM (with a contract or two later put on my life) and I say unreservedly that it is INCONCEIVABLE that Jill hasn't been constantly coached from forty directions since her release by her editors, handlers, personal managers, and a bevy of clever media operatives who appeared on the scene "as if by magic." You're always checking in with your editors before anything whatsoever goes public. This is now all about major money and career — Jill's career and the influence of the media which will exploit her. I firmly believe that it was explained in no uncertain terms that if she stood by her vile video statements her forthcoming illustrious MSM career would be put indefinitelyon hold. They dangled dollars, plenty of them, commentator positions, book contracts, interviews, and so forth, and this deluded ultra-ambitious twirp went for it. The poster who pointed out that every organ for which she's work is rock-solid ultra-liberal (even if veiled for public consumption) is correct. Salon is the perfect example. That rag is hard-core leftist, my friends. Read it closely.

She is a dyed-in-the-wood propagandist-as-journalist who will for the next few years write "thoughtful" and "well-received" articles and books like Karen Armstrong giving all kinds of reasons why our inevitable and righteous war against the global jihad is an error of vast proportions. Her 90-day experience will give a credibility she in no way deserves.

Having lived in the ME for no small amount of time I am also confident that a substantial ransom was paid. That's how things operate over there. She may not even know of it herself.

Expect to see Jill's talking-head coming at ya!

#170 ahriman:

cranks? Did you mean to say 'brave men'? The ones who will stop the jihad?

No, I used the correct word. Rigid ideologues who do not want to hear and understand, much less accept any view but their own (and facts be damned) and are completely incapable of forming alliances are, inevitably, isolated cranks. They will not stop diddly.

It's twits like cokane that will never understand love of country. A love so thorough that I'd rather be dead that spew the horseshit people like Carroll do when making their little Jihad's greatest hits tapes.

When I'm dead and gone, I want my family to remember that I was brave and honored my country, not that I was willing to do and say anything to save my ass.

I believe that is the fundamental difference between the right and the left. I believe this country is worth dying for rather than slandering, you believe in doing and saying anything to make sure you wake up tomorrow.

#157 rayra

...I will never surrender though I be the last.

If I am taken, I pray that I may have the strength

to spit upon my enemy....Special Forces Creed.

You vicerally understand the spirt, and meaning of these words...but you can't expect that the majority of other folks have any comprehension of them. They just don't know what it's like to be that way. or take an oath seriously. That's just the way it is. To them, the statement above, is just a foolish bit of bravado hype, to be jetisoned when confronted by reality. You're wasting your effort trying to communicate to them, what they can't comprehend.

That's why there are so few Special Forces soldiers...(Note the capital letters)

BTW, that was good work you did on the "Gathering of Morons."

#162 rayra

My very like-minded compatriot, I was NOT discounting you. I admire your candor way too much. I was just saying that no-one has an exclusive opinion here at LGF. No insult intended!

I'm with Rayra on this one, also...

#160 Maha G.

Took a look at your survey. Not playing. "Misunderstanding" is rarely an accurate term to describe what is happening anywhere, at any time. It is a term very popular with the left, because by framing all debates as misunderstanding, it pre-validates the results of leftist analysis. With these crappy analyses in hand, whole reams of policy are generated which fail to address the real problem which is DISAGREEMENT, and not misunderstanding.

Case in point: We in the West understand the Muslim world and we do not like it. The Muslim world understands the Western world and they do not like it. No misunderstanding. Just disagreement. And all the leftist "facilitation of discursive modalities conducive to grammars of peace with reconciliationable antimisunderstandingizationificality" won't help.

What's needed is BALLS.

#181 eddiespaghetti

I rolled over on my buddies the moment I saw Sister Bridgette take off her rosary beads and hang them on the back of her chair. She made Sayid on Lost look like a Girl Scout.

# 186 Jack Burton

Well, now, that raises the very question that's been growing in my mind, to whit. The US (or coallition) controls most (not all, obviously) entry into Iraq. Did this lady smuggle herself in ? Or did she come in in some approved fashion, with acreditation or whatever it is the coallition forces do ? That's not a shot at anybody or any position - it's just a question. Does anybody know ?

armytramp:

Your mom was courageous and deserves all respect! But the situation here is different. Carroll went into a war zone unprepared.

She's a civilian and I don't expect more of her than that.

Well, I expect her to stay out of there unless she's embedded with the US army, who can protect her. Wandering around alone, with only a driver and a translator? Not smart. Very irresponsible.

I'm really glad you're free and safe, Jill. For what it's worth, this American woman thinks you did the right thing. You did what you had to do to survive, you have survived, and now that you feel safe again you are speaking freely. God Bless you.

# 186 Jack Burton:

[Jheka], I know this is missing you completely, but Jill Carroll has no right whatsover, as an American, to be in Iraq at all, let alone say what she feels.

Our rights under our rule of law stop at our border. In Iraq, she has no rights at all.

More salient points. Thanks, Jack. I will add that Jill does have rights in Iraq, which, her being a woman in a muslim country and all, aren't too many. Loved her pastel head-covering, BTW. So, uh, multi-cultural of her.

armytramp,

You're comparing apples to dumptrucks.

Getting raped, horrible horrible crime, has nothing to do with being held hostage and slandering your country. Lying to get out of a crime in the US is one thing, slandering your country to extract yourself from a situation you put yourself in is truly another.

While I feel for you, there's no comparison.

As for dying for your country - wars are won in the will of the people and countries fighting it. Interviews like Jill Carrolls sap the will of the people to fight and that harms our soldiers. All the rest is bullshit.

# 191 Frisco Patriot

I'm interested to know what books/whatever you've read by Karen Armstrong. I've only read on eof her books ("The Battle for God") and there was nothing like that in there. Just asking...

# 153 beagle:

BS. It would make her another faux objective MSM liar. I still think she's a leftist tool who thought her sympathies for the enemy and opposition to the war would keep her safe. Her idiocy got her translator killed and herself captured.

hear ! Hear ! bravo !...

I call Bull Shit on -'scared shit-less'- Jill the shrill, not only is she complicit in the areas Beagle points to, she endangered mightily those troops and others trying to rescue her L³ buttocks. A danger she placed HERSELF in due to her mis-placed ideological leanings. If she is capable of learning she will admit what monsters these so-called freedom fighters are and will say so in her reporting. My money is on hell freezing over first.
†boots†

A lot of you folks are makin' the Koz kids look downright rational tonight.

Take it easy.

The aluminum foil is in the top drawer next to the fridge.

I don't know what little towns there are right on the Red River on the Texas and Oklahoma state lines there Southwest of Altus, but winds just above the surface are gusting out at over 80 knots, so expect massive tree and powerline damage.

But the only tornado I know of is way up in Kansas, near the oddly named town of Buttermilk.

#189 rayra

you no good poopyhead

Awwwwww, Shit! Now it's ON! Rayra you have gone too far!

jester6:

The aluminum foil is in the top drawer next to the fridge

Glad you found it :)

Ed of many names,

Are you a professional or amature weather geek? What's the deal?

#207 jester

... can't get to the drawer next to the fridge right now ...
they're watching me through my television

Rayra:

Yes, that's right Jheka. I'm all alone. F'n smear-merchant fantacist.

I'm a "fantacist?" First, have a little respect for the English language and stop making up words. Stick to grade school cursing. It's your strength. Second, you're possibly the only dimwit who can give a degree of legitimacy to a drooling moron like Cokane. For example, he was right to laugh at your keyboard bravado, Rambo. Who's really doing the damage?

P.S.: "throw weight" is two words and I do not think that they means what you think they mean. Stick to "poopyhead."

Mike,

I don't know, but I assume that the Iraqi goverment is officially in charge of the borders, although that may be window dressing.

My point is, her rights as an American mean jack shit in another country, let alone a shooting war zone.

Just like that liberal asshole in Peru who was conspiring with anti-government turds. But once she was caught she expected our government to come and save her. Sorry about your luck.

I just realized that might not come across to nice. I use geek as a term of intellectual endearment. As I was often told in undergraduate school, you cannot spell geek without a "double e".

#203 Rayra:

So you're a moron AND a liar. You have no character.

Well, I guess any news correspondant has the right to go to Iraq and cover the war, but it certainly seems like Ms. Carroll was sympathetic to the "insurgent" cause, which perhaps made her feel safer than she was travelling while not embedded with the troops.

I don't blame her for doing what it took to survive, and she is entitled to her opinions, which, just maybe, might be reevaluated after her experience with Michael Moore's "Minutemen", but she certainly isn't a hero.

OT?
[Link: videosift.com...]
Have y'all seen this video? It's being used by some as an instant comeback to criticism of the MSM in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Just askin'... and yes, their bias is known and evident in the video.

I too believed she had either sold out or was a victim of Stockholm Syndrome. On the day she was released, the CBS Evening News (that British lady) reported she refused military transport and refused to be debriefed.

Purely self educated, and completely amateur.

But if you visit the links, you have to admit they are so cool that everybody will wind up a weather geek as well.

Did you like that over-shooting top satellite pic?

Just a question; How many man hours were lost by our servicemen looking for poor little Jill? Were any of hurt or killed?

Just curious...

Speaking of weather, it's getting a little too ad hominem in here for me. Ciao.

#191 Frisco Patriot

Nicely articulated. We can expect the usual media circus on this one, and as you pointed out Ms. Carroll will find it to be terribly lucrative.

I'm not impress

/a cynical .02

Ed,

Did you ever read The Perfect Storm? Not the cheese movie folks, the book.

That book did a better job of explaining weather and storms than anything I've seen before or since.

And it lets you know that our Coast Guard folks have balls of steel.

# 215 Jack Burton

Well, your post said she had no right to be in Iraq. Which kinda crystallized what I had been wondering about, namely, is that true or not ? Frankly, I don't know.

I spend a lot of time in foreign countries and I know full well that if I get cross-threaded with the local authorities, I am pretty much on my own.

#180 Jack Burton:

Some schmuck newbie doesn't think the world of me. How will I ever recover?

Mike,

That's what I meant. She has no "right" to be in Iraq, and no "right" to do what she wants when she's there.

I don't like people trying to project our rights as Americans to other countries, as you have to play by their rules if you choose to go there.

Aruba for instance - we have to deal with their police and justice system in the case of the missing American girl. If you go there, you have to play by their rules.

Conversely, they have to live with the fact that many potential tourists may choose not to go there because of their police and justice system.

I read "The Perfect Storm" long before the movie came out.

When they made Hurricane Grace a Category 5, when, it actuality, it was only a Cat 4, it kind of ruined the movie for me.

But any movie where George Clooney dies can't be all bad.

Well, I'm one of those who believed she was part of a ransom deal and was in on the kidnapping the whole time.

I was wrong and I apologize to Ms. Carroll.

#223 tompain

Speaking of weather, it's getting a little too ad hominem in here for me. Ciao.

No kidding.

I'm glad to see she's repudiated her previous statements - even the interview after her release that upset me the most. In it, she said nothing that the Bush-haters in this country haven't said a million times over, so that may have had some bearing on my opinion. An explanation, not an excuse.

Newbie?

Uh, okay there. Damn, I can't believe I just found LGF tonight of all nights.

Thanks for the laugh though. It's more than I would have expected out of some liberal no talent assclown.

I'm going to take ferris' lead and ignore Rayra for the remainder of this thread. There's just no point to arguing with him.

After reading the book, the movie was a serious disappointment. But George Clooney dying was a bonus.

Jheka

Some schmuck newbie doesn't think the world of me. How will I ever recover?

.

IIRC, my less than week old 'Newsweek' magazine says all the technologically hip and cool people type "noob", although they continue to pronounce it "newbie".

I'm not hip, no Mac or Linux at home or work, still on a dial-up, and I don't have an I-Pod or a Blackberry, but at least I now know the cool internet way to slam "noob-s".

That's funny Jheka, there's about 200 people here thinking the same thing about you.

#191 Frisco Patriot

it is INCONCEIVABLE that Jill hasn't been constantly coached from forty directions since her release by her editors, handlers, personal managers, and a bevy of clever media operatives who appeared on the scene "as if by magic."

Really? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

You're always checking in with your editors before anything whatsoever goes public.

Dude. She's a freelancer.

This is now all about major money and career — Jill's career and the influence of the media which will exploit her. I firmly believe that it was explained in no uncertain terms that if she stood by her vile video statements her forthcoming illustrious MSM career would be put indefinitelyon hold.

This makes no sense whatsoever. When has raging anti-Americanism EVER negatively impacted a journalist's career? The worst thing she can do for her popularity with MSM editors is repudiate her earlier statements as coerced.

It must be easy to be so certain. Even when I said what I did about her, I also said that I had no evidence other than common sense and that I would retract what I said if it was proven wrong. I was wrong. What would it take for you to be convinced that she acted under duress while HELD BY TERRORISTS, but honestly recanted while FREE WITH AMERICANS? I suspect that nothing would ever convince you, which makes talking to you a dead-end.

Ed,

I do follow the links, I like the loops and I appreciate your posts. Long before the [Link: WWW...] lived in a high rise apartment on Lake Erie. I spent many summer evenings with a glass of scotch watching a front roll in with all the accompanying fireworks. Some things are better analog.

#234 Jack Burton

After reading the book, the movie was a serious disappointment. But George Clooney dying was a bonus.

I've never seen a movie based on a great book that didn't do it a disservice - at least if I'd read the book first. I find if I see the movie first and THEN read the book, it is an entirely different experience. Most of the time. That particular movie sucked on it's own.

_{I have no desire to discuss LOTR...}

The Silence of the Lambs was, to me, as good a movie as the book, which I read before seeing the movie....

I'm also allergic to the ad hominem.

I'm going to reserve my final judgement on Carroll until I see more. Obviously, I have my own reasons for doing so, whether some of you think they are valid or not. Considering that some here have never faced personal danger, I don't really trust your judgement any more than you trust mine.

When I hear rhetoric about "fighting to the death" to avoid being captured in light of my own experience, I can say that it it's not as simple as that. As a 5'2" tall 110lb woman, I speak from bitter experience when I say that we women don't necessarily have that option when men can literally pick us up, pin our arms, and throw us around like dolls. I thought I was all that and a bag of chips in the fighting department after two years of Tae Kwon Do lessons, but when facing a man who's bigger and heavier and has the drop on you, all the bravado in the world doesn't mean shit. And I have a glass jaw to boot. I found out the hard way.

I agree that Carroll was foolish to be there in Iraq, but I think it's only a matter of time before more people right here on our home territory are going to be getting Carroll's treatment. I wonder what will be expected of them.

Good night. Hope there's clearer air tomorrow.

#225 Jack Burton

Coast Guard folks have balls of steel.

Hear! Hear! "Ya gotta go out. Ya don't gotta come back."

Not to be gay, but I would say the Harry Potter movies are about the best example of good movie making staying with the books.

As I have kids, I love watching them, over and over and over again.

#235 Ed:

Live and learn. Truthfully, it's not a noob ... just not particularly active over it's time here ... I was wrong on that one.

#236 Jack Burton:

Name 10.

#233 jheka

I guess I'm not one of the 200 (ala Jack). Keep posting and don't let "grade school-yard bullies" keep ya down. Jack-I recommend Thorazine, or a handfull of Ambien and a pint of vodka. Chill.

Color me unimpressed.

I heard her statement when she was first released.

She was far more concerned about painting her captors in a favorable light than ANYTHING else- it was the first or second thing she said. It was clear that her DEAD translator at that time- which was her honest reaction- was the last thing on her mind.

And that smug little laugh when she was ripping on Bush? That was as real as it gets. Terrified people cant act that well.

Now that she is being publically blasted (thank G-d for the blogosphere) for her lack of concern, she comes up with this backpedalling whitewash CYA P.R. campaign.

I remain a skeptic on Ms. Carroll's angelicness and patriotism.

Nice run by George Mason but it's over. They gave it a good effort, even in this game. Just didn't have the size or talent to compete.

Perhaps a brief tornado spin-up near the leading edge of the gust-front, just across the river inside Texas about due South of Altus?

#226 Mike C.

I spend a lot of time in foreign countries and I know full well that if I get cross-threaded with the local authorities, I am pretty much on my own.

YEAH WELL IF I WERE IN THAT SITUATION I WOULD JUST START WAVING THE AMERICAN FLAG AND MARCHING IN THE STREETS UNTIL I WON OR SOMEBODY CUT MY HEAD OFF. WIMP.!1!1shift1!.

Misery was an excellent adaptation of the King book. Reiner did an outstanding job on that one.

I never read Misery, so I can't comment on how well it was adapted from the book, but I thought it was a great movie...

246 TMF:

... that smug little laugh when she was ripping on Bush

That is what makes me very skeptical about her. That kind of laugh doesn't happen unless it is heartfelt.

A problem here seems to be where people set the the standard to be a "true American" and/or the bar to be a "traitor".

Is Jill Carrol quite on the left hand side? Possibly, although I haven't read her articles; I'm only relying on others' opinions.

Does it make her anti-american? Not necessarily.

#251 CTP:

My favorite King book (with the caveat that there are several that I haven't read which are supposed to be very good ... including The Shining, which was another terrific movie).

#247 Jheka

Nice run by George Mason but it's over. They gave it a good effort, even in this game. Just didn't have the size or talent to compete.

Sad. Sigh.

And to sprinkle a bit more salt in the wound, I am a Florida State alum.

#241 armytramp

I empathize with your mom's story - similar experience here. I'm 5'2, and smallish. Up against a 6 foot man, I was no match. Use the weapon at hand, I say. If it's only your wits, then by all means, use that. For most unarmed women, fighting back is not a reasonable option.

#255 Ann:

You're a Seminole? Well, why didn't you say so? I would have typed my comments phonetically for you :).

J/K!

/UVA Alum

Re: Curmudgeons
Seems like the thing that is the most galling these days to boobs, noob-s and immature folk of any age is the curmudgeon's experience, wisdom and willingness to reference/back-up their stories. Coming on too strong/curt is secondary... ;^)

Enuff wristicuffs, it's bad for the BP (and wisdom). I'm off to a BBQ.

Ed, I too have been enjoying your hobby. Looks like you're a valued here in LGF-land (the world)
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] and -45

Jheka- I suppose, too bad its Midnight for Cinderlla, but honestly, I think for most Americans, the Tourney lost all interest (the alum of the 4 schools involved excepted) when America realized that Texas would not be the simultaneous National Champions in every major men's sport when the Running Horns let the LSU game slip away in OT.

#254 Jheka

The only one I've read was The Tommyknockers. It was good, but he droned on in places....

#255 Ann

Hi....

haakondahl.... you craven coward...if I was in a nasty situation I would RIP OPEN MY OWN STOMACH AND STRANGLE THE ATTACKERS WITH MY OWN INTESTINES! Thats what jill should have done!

#252 ahriman

That is what makes me very skeptical about her. That kind of laugh doesn't happen unless it is heartfelt.

Or unless one is giddy at the prospect of release, and at the same time panicked that it might not happen.

Have any of you gentlemen ever been held knife-point by several men? Not an easy position for a woman.

Apparently under duress of terrorist kidnappers, Jill Carroll makes a video praising the terrorists and denouncing the Coalition military.

Under duress from those who detest terrorists and supporters of the Coalition military, Jill Carroll makes statements denouncing her previous statements.

She has not yet made any statements in which she has NOT been "under duress."

We can only judge her work prior to her kidnapping and her work from now forward to find out her true feelings.

Her statements made during the past 3 days mean nothing if they were truly made under duress of possible death and duress of drawing the ire and hatred of Americans who felt she was a terrorist sympathizer.

I'm wondering away, as the severe weather episode looks like it will skip Texas for the most part tonight.

I could stay up just to see if the Frederick, OK WSR-88D Nexrad Doppler radar will be damaged by the 80 mph winds and tennis ball sized hail. The actual radar is inside a big plastic ball, but I've seen pictures where big hail has shredded the cover and destroyed the radar.

you no good poopyhead

And we have yet another rotating title.....

Ok, I can't resist...

What would American Infidel do if kidnapped by a gang of jihadis?

Bury them under a mound of CAPS LOCKS and bold and citations from the Devil's Handbook (Koran)?

Thank you goodnight

#260 CTP:

I really didn't like Tommyknockers. Read "It" and "Misery" and maybe "Green Mile." Actually, King has a lot of great books ... and a few really, really awful ones.

Hey mama.I'm starting to get my feet a little more wet on LGF. Last nite I talked about my Morrocan neighbor. Things are getting a bit more strange regarding him. Do you know the Milw suburb with initials WA? Curious. Thinking of going the IRS route as suggested.

#257 Jheka

You're a Seminole? Well, why didn't you say so? I would have typed my comments phonetically for you :).

I lived eight years in Fairfax and seven years in Charlottesville.

thats whir i lernt to spel.

:-)

wander, not wonder.

#256

Super woman who can kick the heck out of men three times their size is movie studio crap. It doesn't work in real life. I had always considered myself strong and tough until the day a man threw me around like a rag doll. I was utterly unprepared for the force of that kind of strength. One punch in the face, and I was out cold.

Women have to rely on brains to fight brawn.

Nighty night LGF. Rough day on the board. Can't take more of it tonight.

#262 mama winger:
Why do you assume I'm a male? A 6 foot male once tried to attack me. I was just out of the hospital after 4 months in skeletal traction, got hit by a car. Well, I had always said, I'm a fighter! But from time to time I had doubts. No longer. I threw him down the stairs. Don't know how I did it, really. What is funny, is I can recall no effort. It was soooo easy! Months after, I would see him in the local cafe...he would cringe back at the sight of me. LOL!

MIM,

I agree, somewhat, in the sense that I don't believe more a minute what she's saying now is her true feelings. I'm sure the people that she works with and her family aren't blind to the reaction when she praises a bunch of lowlife terrorist shit and fails to mention her dead translator.

I believe it's the same thing for the christian peace idiots, at least the ones who thanked the troops. I don't believe for a minute they really are grateful, just damage control.

It's really a hard nut to crack for the left. They'll slander everything about American and scream not to question their patriotism. But they don't have much to refute when one of theirs is on a video praising a bunch of terrorists.

Because at that point we can and do question their partiotism.

#268 cheesehead

Do you know the Milw suburb with initials WA?

Let's see, which ten? Hmmm......

Wawautosa
Waupaca
Waukesha
Waterford . . . . . . . . shall I go on ?

hee-hee :)

Keep in mind that treason is a capital offense.

To all the pro-Carrollites out there, hypothetically speaking- if she had some form of complicity in this abduction- ANY complicity whatsoever-

YA THINK shes going to ADMIT it now?

That statement has the stench of a lawyers pen. A lawyer concerned about potential criminal liability.

THis statement neither vindicates nor convicts her.

It is utterly meaningless and empty, and wasnt even written by her.

#262 mama winger

Wednesday? Is that your boy's homecoming? You must be besides yourself waiting for him. Hope his trip home is fast and safe.

#267 Jheka

Thanks, if I see them, I'll pick them up.

Problem is that I rarely read fiction -- I probably read 150 history books for every one fiction book I read, so the fiction is few and far between...

Yep.

Read the statement again.

Its Exhibit "A" for defense counsel in any potential criminal case against her.

We'll see what happens.

Armytramp,

The realities of the physical differences are something that just is and I feel your pain.

I'm coming from the bigger man's side of things, and blackbelts or no, there's just no chance if someone like me decides to attack a woman.

I, for the record, think rapists should have their peckers cut off.

#263 Michael in MI

Under duress from those who detest terrorists and supporters of the Coalition military, Jill Carroll makes statements denouncing her previous statements.

Is this the same duress the CPT bastards were under? Double up on the tin-foil, crackhead.

Meh, she's no Daniel Pearl.

#272 ahriman

I guess that's why? :)

If you have it - use it. I'm glad you did. I couldn't. That doesn't make me any less brave. Just a physical reality.