Those responsible will be dealt with by the military.

Hopefully this will not happen again.

I'm praying that our soldiers hang tough even through all the inhumanity dealt to them by the murderous insurgents (I don't like this term, call them terrorists).

Murtha was having a good time with this on the morning talk shows.

*spit*

If this indeed happened there was a reason for it. You fight as one and die as one. War is a bitch. But things happen. I'd like to see what some of the bleeding hearts would do in a similar situation, but in their cases they are too self centered.

I back the Marines. Period.

The media, Left, and terrorists will have a field day with this.

Wow, people died in a war? Marines killed people? This is news? The MSM can FOAD.

Meanwhile, atrocities you'll rarely see the MSM report;

Child Abuse - Mullah Style

Dissident tells of assaults and threats against children during 66 days in jail run by Iran's clerical regime

A leading Iranian pro-democracy and women's activist, who was jailed on trumped-up charges last year, has revealed how the clerical regime cynically deploys systemic sexual violence against female dissidents in the name of Islam.

Roya Tolouee, 40, was beaten up by Iranian intelligence agents and subjected to a horrific sexual assault when she refused to sign forced confessions. It was only when they threatened to burn her two children to death in front of her that she agreed to put her name to the documents.

Gandalf has more.

Any lizards still believe pro-democracy forces in Iran can bring regime change?

What frosts me is the what this might be. A gross exception to an otherwise complete adherence to the rules of war US military procedure.

The allegation: after five years of various combat, one small US unit wigged out after a buddy was shot and did something they should not do. After how many millions of hours of combat, one, count it, one unit may have done something terrible.

The opponents of America hold us to an impossible standard, one of the things that makes war so terrible is that in the stress the fight, people do awful things.

But know this, while the serious allegations may be proven, the fact that this happened is no reason to surrender and begs a question of those who most hyperventilate about this incident- why were you silent when Saddam ran children through the grinders or when American contractors were butchered in Fallujah? They never talk about what happens to any American who falls into enemy hands. The enemy has no prison camps for the few dozen prisoners (at most) they have taken in this war. If the soldier is lucky they are killed on the spot, if not, they get tortured first. No American prisoner soldier in this war has been let go for mercy. Such is the enemy that we fight.

Another way to contribute to the killing of innocent civilians is to give comfort and aid to terrorists.

Sure, if our forces knowingly killed innocent civilians they should be treated like common murderers. But something also needs to be done about people like Jimmy Carter and groups like the Muslim Students Association--individuals and groups that give aid and comfort to the Hamas mass murderers.

OT
did anyone talk about this last week?
[Link: www.azcentral.com...]

a local punk had some TATP he got on the street

Anyone ever read "An Instance of the Fingerpost," by Ian Pears? An interesting, difficult read about a medieval murder looked at from the point of view of several onlookers. The interesting thing was, everyone was right about they saw, but no one had the whole story. Consequently, all the parties believed different people had committed the crime. I think the tragedy in Haditha is just like that. I only hope that the final narrative is complete- but people like Murtha are going to do their best to ensure that it isn't. They only see what they want to see, and judge whom they want to judge.

obviously war crimes should be taken very very seriously. And perpetrators should be dealt with fairly but harshly.

However there's something about this story that doens't chime right. I'll wait until the official investigation is out.

#5 Murqtaad

Well, the allegation is that they gunned down civilians, which is doubleplusungood.

However, the jury's not out yet. No word yet if some of the "civilians" were carrying arms and shooting at them (which happens). As it stands, though, it looks like an excessive emotional response to a tremendously emotional event that put those men under some extreme pressure. How would any of us likely respond if saw one of our buddies splattered about the inside of a Humvee?

#1

Those responsible

Responsible of what ?
Do you already know something we don't ?
Please share it.

The propaganda machine of the subversives is going full steam on this, as usual and long before we know IF anything bad has happened (BAD as in a violation of the Laws of War).

Too many are too happy to jump at the throat of America, it's a frigging shame.

You don't like the Country ? Move to Russia, or France, or Saudi Arabia, go.

Why is it that whenever you say anything about Islam killing and bombing and threatening, the left immediately yell remember 'the crusade'?

Then they will point out panties on a muslim head, priest pedophiles, Morman polygamy, and Christian incest.

Has it ever even slightly occured to anybody, that it was possibly insurgents,(aka leftist freedom fighters) who may have been holed up with the civilians, who did the killing of the innocents, which the insurgents do with glee, regularly in Iraq, and everywhere in the world, for that matter?

I could see insurgents, who obviously motivated the IED, to be holed up nearby, like say, in the homes of these innocents, and then, as the Marines moved in, to look for the perpatrators, killed the innocents, as to make it appear as if the Marines did the killings.

I know it's easy for the likes of Murtha, and his ilk, to jump on the Marines and condemn them before all the facts are in, and I suppose a theory like which I have mentioned, would be considered a "right wing conspirocy", but it's just too damn sickening watching these supposed "American patriots" like Murtha, rush to condemn the Marines, and yet, he, and the msm never sensationalize that which should be sensationalized, how the insurgents, at the drop of a hat, kill men, woman, and children daily, throughout the world, and yet, it seems like that has just become an expected, and accepted part of daily life.

Bad things happen.

Especially in a time of war.

If innocents died, it is regretful. Now let's see the daily murder of innocents by jihadi swine all over the world receive even 1:1,000,000^th of the attention this incident has already received and will continue to receive for years to come.

Historical perspective:

It's My Lai all over again (-while ignoring for instance the completely atrocious Hue massacres committed by the NVA).

Same sh*t, different year.

F*ck the LLL

They weren't eyewitnesses to the killings, by their own account.

They were only there for the aftermath.

The only ones who know what happened in those houses are the Marines who did it and the victims.

Any way you slice it, it was a horrible incident in the most horrible spot in Iraq. If this was an execution, then the Marines need to pay for their actions.

If it was anything less than that, then the truth needs to come out.

IT is clear that in a town like Haditha, the term "innocent civilian" has a very relative meaning.

However, young kids- there is never any excuse unless he's coming after you with a weapon.

#12 TQC

the allegation is

MY allegation is that the frigging clique of subversives that has taken over the Democratic party gets paid by the enemies of America to make us lose the war.
I have evidence: the Saudis have repeatedly paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to Bill Clinton for his "lectures".

I want an investigation on this, I want a trial for treason.

Do you think the media will follow me ?

#15 republic

It looks like no one is denying that these people were shot by the marines rifles.

I agree with you that insurgents are more than happy to kill civilians- they do it every day.

But in this case, if that wasn't marine ordnance all over the scene we would have heard about it, even with the preliminary info we have.

Murtha is a disgrace to the Marines. F*ck him.

...

#16 Golden Jerusalem

It's My Lai all over again (-while ignoring for instance the completely atrocious Hue massacres committed by the NVA).

Same sh*t, different year.

F*ck the LLL

You may say it loud.

Let's keep in mind what we've got here. We've got two ongoing military investigations into an incident where it is alleged that Marines murdered innocent civilians.

If those Marines did commit those acts, they should be punished to the maximum extent under the UCMJ. Folks like Murtha shouldn't act as judge, jury, and executioner for them - and indeed he's gone off condemning the entire Marine and US operation in Iraq (and has done so repeatedly). Murtha may end up being right that Haditha has damaged US credibility, but the same can be said of Murtha's own comments undermining the US war effort and rebuilding of Iraq.

Right now we've got leaks from various unnamed sources and the bulk of the leaks are from those putting together a case against the Marines involved - it's mostly a one-sided affair. The facts may end up being that way. But they might not.

No one is currently in possession of all the facts - and it appears that the NCIS is conducting a thorough investigation, but even there one should note that the bodies of the victims have not been exhumed so critical evidence might go undiscovered due to sensitivity to the religious beliefs of the families involved.

A couple of things to keep in mind:

Our Arab enemies always scream "Massacre" after just about any incident in which some of their own die.

Note that when we bomb terrorist hideouts in Afghanistan and Iraq there are almost automatic claims that we bombed a "wedding party" or something of that sort.

Second, our enemies go way our of their way to ensure civilian casualties. They see the deaths of their own civilians as a victory--the dead become martyrs and their deaths create wonderful propaganda opportunities.

Keep in mind too that in many places in Iraq, the civilians, such as they may be called, tend to themselves engage in actions designed to provoke our soldiers. Remember that British helicopter that went down, and the "civilians" started crowding around and throwing rocks at the rescue team sent in.

If any one side is responsible for deliberately blurring the distinction between combatants and civilians, it's not the men and women wearing uniforms. As far as I'm concerned, until proven otherwise, they get the benefit of the doubt, and it's not even a close call.

What about the small arms fire, reportedly heard on the actual audio transmitions?

If there is small arms fire coming from several houses, right after the Marines just lost their comrade, they are not going to wait to see if there are any children in those houses, they are going to return fire immedietly.

Autopsies will be able to determine if these were execution style killings, or if they were just unfortunate to be caught up in an extreme firefight.

18 Poitiers-Lepanto

I want an investigation on this, I want a trial for treason.

Do you think the media will follow me ?

NO!

I saw Cpl. Briones's mom interviewed on TV last night (ABC?), and she was in tears.

And what was Murtha's response when a bus load of school girls was destroyed by those he wants to see defeat the United States?

The left hasn't really been using this-- I actually heard about it through rightie blogs first-- this one and Michelle Malkin. I think the reaction from any sane person is going to be sadness about this incident, not gleeful gloating, and that's what I've seen so far even on DKos and the like.

It's hardly "getting behind the Marines" to refuse to accept that a uniform makes you immune from doing criminal things. The point that critics of the war, and I am one, have been trying to make is that if you're going to put American troops in a position where incidents like these can happen (because it's war and shit happens), then it had better be for a real good reason.

Iraq is not that reason.

#19

I'm quite certain that many Marine firearms, and ammunition, have fallen into the hands of insurgents, as many Marines have been killed in Hadith over the course of 3+ years.

I will just give the Marines the benefit of the doubt, until ALL the facts of this investigation are complete, if there ever is such a thing.

Unless the bodies get buried with an AK47 in their hands, HOW DO WE F*** KNOW who is an innocent civilian in this war in which the muslim terrorists use women, children, old people ?

The word of a witness ?

Do we know or not that the Courts haven't used the word of a witness as sole evidence for a forever ?

#23 lawhawk

No one is currently in possession of all the facts - and it appears that the NCIS is conducting a thorough investigation, but even there one should note that the bodies of the victims have not been exhumed so critical evidence might go undiscovered due to sensitivity to the religious beliefs of the families involved.

True. If there are still bullets in any of the bodies, they should be able to get matches on ballistics.

My favorite Abraham Lincoln quote of all time!

"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are sabotuers, and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged."

Abraham Lincoln

AP had a photo the other day of a dead PLO-Arab right next to a rocket launcher. I bet this is another example of murdering an innocent civilan.

#18 Poitiers-Lepanto

Personally, I'd like to see Murtha drummed out of Congress right prior to being dragged in front of a tribunal on charges of treason and spending the rest of his days in Leavenworth.

/a man can dream

#34 Me

Check for matches on ballistics, that is.

#22 Poitiers-Lepanto:

The sad thing is, just like the historical example cited, no matter what really happened, you can be sure of one of the following:

(a) They'll blame the US;
(b) They'll blame the US;
(c) They'll blame the US; or
(d) All of the above.

not only that, but 15 deaths will get more coverage than, what, 15,000?, brutally murdered by "insurgents"...

MSM liars will have a field day year decade with this, the bastards.

/spit

...there's a rage of revenge that will make a man snap...if *we* had to, we would nuke and utterly destroy, kill innocents, and even ourselves to exact revenge...

welcome to the human DNA strand, where at least *our* country's madness is exhibited in a few men at a time.

I really hope that the story as its being told by Murtha isn't true. I remember numerous times hearing stories of the Terrorist hiding behind and amongst women and children, and firing on our troops. No way our troops deliberately targeted and shot unarmed women and children. Fighting against animals who follow no rules of war but allahs rules of barbarism, I would believe until proven otherwise that the terrorists put those killed in the line of fire to serve their own ends or shot them themselves.

Our guys are there fighting a cruel and brutal enemy, and murtha (thanks for your service, but isn't it about time to retire) is jumping at the chance to raise a lynch mob in the media before the investigations are complete. I'l give them the benifit of the doubt.

I knew it, this thread will be a honey-pot for trolls.

Here we go, the first saddamist in line...

Let's also not forget that Afghans rioted, leaving more than a dozen dead, after a traffic accident.

And deadly protests erupted in Muslim countries over cartoons.

I would trust a US military investigation way before I would trust the MSM's reporting or the opinions of Democrats suffering from severe BDS.

Yes, the MSM is corrupt:

[Link: news.independent.co.uk...]

#39 Golden Jerusalem

ANd after doing all that, they will say that it is "to uphold HIGH MORAL STANDARDS".

And that is the big lie.

WE ALL KNOW THAT IF ANYTHING "BAD" HAS HAPPENED, THE PERSONS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT WILL BE PUNISHED AND THAT WE HAVE ALWAYS AND WILL ALWAYS HAVE THE HIGHER GROUND.

But the frigging occasion to create problems, to offend the Military, to help the frigging terrorists (whom the LEFT calls insurgents and minutemen) is too precious for the subversives (aka democrats).

Oddly enough, this hasn't received much play in the MSM. I think they've so overplayed their hands in cases like Abu Ghraib, which was portrayed as a virtual holocaust for relatively innocuous infractions.

Now that something bad may really have happened, it's difficult to get the public ire going.

I'll wait to see what the investigations reveal; nonetheless, I fully support our military.

#42 Poitiers-Lepanto

What a horrible, horrible comment to make. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Jerusalem (CNSNews.com) - Iran is supplying the Hizballah terrorist organization with rockets that can penetrate deep into Israeli territory, a military source said on Monday.

Tensions flared along Israel's northern border over the weekend after terrorists fired several Katyusha rockets at northern Israeli targets, hitting an Israeli army base and lightly injuring one soldier.

Islamic Jihad in Lebanon said the initial attack was retaliation for the death of one of its senior leaders in Lebanon, which it blamed on Israel. Lebanon is home to more than 350,000 Palestinian refugees and their descendants.

But Israel says no fire can be directed at Israel from the area without the consent of Hizballah.
[Link: www.cnsnews.com...]

#43 ibrodsky:
It already appears that the traffic accident in Afghanistan was due to a brake failure. Not that it mattered to anyone who started the ensuing riots.

In other words, our Warriors could, in theory, make mistakes.
The subversives ARE mistakes.

#44 joewilson

Methinks (gronk) he planted one with the Independent.

#51 Evil TQC

Keep it down you joke.

#48 Storagemanager

Jerusalem (CNSNews.com) - Iran is supplying the Hizballah terrorist organization with rockets that can penetrate deep into Israeli territory, a military source said on Monday.

Yeah, but you know, for the subversives in the media and in the "universities" THE JEWS are not CIVILIANS...they are...Jews...

Saw Murtha on CNN this morning, and the one thought I had was "how the f*ck could this guy have ever served?".

No chance for the marines being innocent, even being fired upon - he had already decided that this was murder, plain and simple. Emphasised no small arms fire, as if he were there.

No way this guy belongs on A) TV and B) the nation's payroll.

If you wrote in "C) the planet", that would also be an acceptable answer.

#31 hujambo

The left hasn't really been using this-- I actually heard about it through rightie blogs first-- this one and Michelle Malkin. I think the reaction from any sane person is going to be sadness about this incident, not gleeful gloating, and that's what I've seen so far even on DKos and the like.

It's hardly "getting behind the Marines" to refuse to accept that a uniform makes you immune from doing criminal things. The point that critics of the war, and I am one, have been trying to make is that if you're going to put American troops in a position where incidents like these can happen (because it's war and shit happens), then it had better be for a real good reason.

Iraq is not that reason.

Total nonsense.

The Left already claims we are there to kill the innocent and steal oil. All you have to do is look at the Memorial Day comments from the Left posted here by Charles.

You assume the marines are guilty. I assume our enemies (Islamo-fascists and our own media) are liars.

Iraq had and used weapons of mass destruction and supported terrorism. Invading Iraq was an excellent choice for establishing a forward base against Iran, Syria, and the "Palestinian" terrorist entity.

Please please utterly and completely ignore the trolls, they come here to offend the Warriors we honor EVERY day.

joewilson,

Are you so lazy and stupid you think posting something from a organization run by a left-wing hack is going to fool anyone here?

#54 brent

Yeah, I saw Murtha on CNN this morning, and I thought, "There's no way this guy could have been a Marine. If nothing else, he's too much of a whiny limpwrist."

#44 joewilson

The left, whether it's leftist Democrats, or just regular leftist wacko's, are allowed 100% unedited, uncensored propaganda on nearly every MSM entity, and you bring an article, about a left wing kook who seems to have found some wrongdoing in regards to "biased" episodes by the Bush Admin., and several Corporations?

You are wacked!

#54 Brent

No chance for the marines being innocent

That's all the point.

It's the main point of every subversive strategy: weaken Patriotism, suggest that crimes and horrors and crimes happen everywhere, etc.

Smear smear, something will remain.

That's all I have seen them doing since I learned to read.

The only wat to trust a US Military investigation is if you trust the "innocent civilians" they interviewed. Having been in Iraq there is no such animal.

The marines that were involved in this incident were doing what they thought necessary to limit even further loss of American lifes. Go to Iraq and experience what these brave soldiers experience before judging!

#59 republic

Keep in mind that people who think like joewilson think that the MSM is "conservative" because it is owned by corporations, instead of being shared by worker-owned coops. We're not exactly dealing with people who have a balanced perspective on life.

I'll be waiting for the Marines to finish their investigation....not to decide whether to pass judgment, but for answers only. I've never seen combat therefore I cannot put myself in the shoes of the Marines who deal with hell on earth every day over there.

#53 Poitiers-Lepanto:

Yeah, but you know, for the subversives in the media and in the "universities" THE JEWS are not CIVILIANS...they are...Jews...

Well, interestingly, the left in the west to one extent or another echoes the official Hamas/Fatah/IJ/whatever line, which is:

"We do not distinguish between an Israeli child, woman or soldier, because the Jews are all occupiers..."

And I remind you all that nearly every day Sean Hannity plays a speech by Kerry saying that our Marines TERRORIZE women and children in the middle of the night.

He frigging says TERRORIZE.

It's time for America to get rid of these scum.

#62

joewilson must think that George Soros is "conservative".

61 casador06

See my post #63.

Thank you for your service.

If feels like they drag him (murtha) out for these stories so that they can say what they really want to be true, and he makes it seem real.

It has to be real, he WAS a Marine. Not a word about his loyalties or affiliations, no real debate on the facts in question, just an ex-Marine calling current Marines murderers.

Must be true.

CNN must just be loving it....

I posted this on another thread. Unusal - even by their standards - Pali brutality.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1148482 074753&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

Suspected collaborators executed by Palestinians

68 brent

It has to be real, he WAS a Marine.

Naturally. Just like Kerry got the pass for so long. Still waiting for him to sign that form, BTW.....

#68 brent

"Congressmen who willfully take actions that damage morale and undermine the military are sabotuers, and should be arrested exiled or hanged."

Abraham Lincoln

#64 Golden Jerusalem

the Jews are all occupiers

The Jews BREATH !
Can you believe it ? They take selfishly for themselves the AIR, the oxygen ! They steal oxygen from the air !

/bad mood, sorry for the bad taste...

is it any wonder, you got top combat troops playing policeman to a population that smile in your face one day and then tear you to pieces the next.
a population that refuses to give information as to the whereabouts of terrorists living in their midst, because it is un islamic.
and every day you have to watch your friends killed while the so called iraqui population laughs and celebrates.

i bet when that marine was killed the people came out of their houses in droves,laughing and cheering, and the other marines just snapped after so much crap.
to my mind its all too understandable.

Loppy - Longface...

He's now saying he has PROOF that the SwiftVets were lying... Was just holding back during the elections, he really had the proof all along.

He has the hat to prove it.

An afterthought-experiement:

WHAT IF

Some insurgents had a shootout with Marines after ambushing them in a neighborhood;

AND WHAT IF

During this exchange of fire in a crowded neighborhood there were some civilian casualties, possible caused by "friendly fire";

AND THEN

Some MSM stringer came along and decided to frame this, knowing how this would

COINCIDE WITH MEMORIAL DAY WEKEND?

What then?

I mean, if it was the case and it was proven to be the case, would it ever be reported to even a billionth of the extent the propagandists' original slant was carried, eh?

My bloodpressure.

Cancel my subscription to the MSM.

#71 republic

Why not all three?

#71

correction to post #71

"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are sabotuers, and should be jailed, exiled or hanged."

Abraham Lincoln

#71 Republic

"Congressmen who willfully take actions that damage morale and undermine the military are sabotuers, and should be arrested exiled or hanged."

Abraham Lincoln

Who is this Lincoln ? some kind of fascist ?
A racist probably...

/Today he couldn't speak.

Murtha is a disgrace to the Marines. F*ck him.

The highest insult you can pay to a guy like Murtha is to call him what he truly is:

an ex-Marine.

#55

Iraq had and used weapons of mass destruction and supported terrorism. Invading Iraq was an excellent choice for establishing a forward base against Iran, Syria, and the "Palestinian" terrorist entity.

We didn't need a "forward base" to attack any of these places. That's your only justification for invading and occupying Iraq?

Using the military for badly planned nation building: a nice formula for putting Marines in a position where they can be accused of murder. Maybe it's time for a change of strategy? Maybe it's time for a strategy?

(notice I didn't say anything about Democrats or Europeans or the U.N. having that strategy.)

Someone commented yesterday (Michelle Malkin?) that in much the the world of the MSM-liberal types, are veterans are considered either victims or villians. Not brave war hero's.

OLYMPIA, Washington — Police fired pepper spray as about 150 anti-war protesters tried to enter the Port of Olympia as part of ongoing demonstrations against the shipment of Army equipment to Iraq.

Protesters chanted "Out of Olympia, Out of Iraq" as they rocked a chain-link gate to the port late Monday, and at least three tried to use wooden boards to pry the gate open, The Olympian newspaper reported. A 50-ton piece of equipment was moved to reinforce the gate on the other side.

Police and sheriff's deputies clad in riot gear fired at least four rounds of pepper spray in an hour after asking the demonstrators several times to stop, authorities said. No one was arrested, but paramedics were dispatched to treat some activists.
(Police chanted get the pepper out of your eyes...Get the Pepper out of your eyes..)..The Protesters did find this amusing.....Now that would be Justice!

69 Joel

The majority of Palestinians are savages. They execute the ones who aren't in order to maintain that majority.

#76 Obi-wan

I couldn't agree more.

There are more than just Murtha!

#72 Poitiers-Lepanto:

The Jews BREATH !
Can you believe it ? They take selfishly for themselves the AIR, the oxygen ! They steal oxygen from the air !

/bad mood, sorry for the bad taste...

Heh, speaking of bad taste:

Why do Jews have big noses?

Air is free!

HEY! I can make fun of my own people, so don't start! :P

brent

What a tool...not only is he stupid, but the man has no shame. As many here will tell you, my loathing for Kerry knows no bounds.

Lucky me, he's my senator along with The Swimmer.

I say we bring the Marines (who may have/may not have) committed this crime to justice as soon as we bring the Iraqis who hung our men from bridges, without heads, to justice. When we bring those who killed civilian contractors to justice, etc....

It's a fucking war, it's not a box social!

{GJ}

You crack me up, brothaah!

Murqtaad

It's a fucking war, it's not a box social!

Amen.

Think Johnny thoughts...

{loppyd}

lol, hiya...

How's your weekend go there?

Sounds like Murtha is angling to be HRC's 2008 running mate.

THRILLS, GRILLS & SPILLS

:p

loppy,

I'm thinkin if Johnny was a marine, the war woulda ended before the '04 World Series.

#80 hujambo

We didn't need a "forward base" to attack any of these places. That's your only justification for invading and occupying Iraq?

You quoted me giving three reasons. Then you asked if one of them was my only reason.

I guess that's what they mean by "stuck on stupid."

#85 Golden Jerusalem

Yes, I crack jokes about Italian-Americans all the time, my step-children can't believe I am so nasty.

(Please note that Italian here is in the position of the ADJECTIVE and American is in the position of the NOUN, thank you).

91 Ed M.

Sounds like Murtha is angling to be HRC's 2008 running mate.

Bring it on. A senile old fool and a shrill old bitch would lose in a major way.

#91 Ed

Do you think that the ratio of Military who voted for the GOP in 2004 at the rate of 70% GOP-17%Dem would change?

I think if Mutha ran with the Shrill one, you'd see more like 95% Gop - 3% Dem

90 GJ

Weekend was fun! Lots of time outside - cookouts, boat, etc.

How was yours?

I am sick to death with the f*****g LLL, MSM and the asshatters and their death cult.
Murtha the Mutha is a disgrace to the USMC. He spent his 35 years one weekend a month and 2 weeks per summer. He is the George Galloway of the US. Gosh this turd pisses me off. He cares not one whit about the good and positive events the men and woman serving this country have done in OIF and OEF. They are propping up and protecting 2 countries, building their schools, oil refineries (while NONE get built in the US), and infrastructure. And the clowns in the media spit on them when some allegedly do something wrong. They will not wait for the investigations to conclude...they are already calling for the heads of the entire USMC/DoD Chain of Command.
I have lived in Europe 4 1/2 years (in the Army) and it gets worse every year. I believe the majority of Americans know and understand what's what in Iraq. But the MSM, those who are supposed to tell the facts, without bias, foam at the mouth over this stuff. (Oh the evil Marines snapped!)
Now we have an injured reporter, again, and you can hardly drive on the hospital compound for all the damn media vans with their satellite trucks and reporters in the road (for just the right hair shot [do I look grave or sincere enough?]).
I wish they cared that much for the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines, plus the Brits, Poles, Iraqis, and others, who when badly injured, come here for life-saving care before crossing the pond for home.
God Bless the men and women of the Coalition Armed Forces.

hi loppyd,

Hope you had a nice weekend, culminating with a 2-hit blanking of the Tigers yesterday by youknowwho.

Shockingly, he has 7 wins this year.

"Maybe it's time for a strategy?"

And every time you hear these words you can be sure that the speaker means

LET'S CUT AND RUN.

The famous subversive strategy of ending war by destroying your OWN Country.

IF ONCE the Democrats had said: we want double money for the Armed Forces, we want to bomb flat our enemies, we want to win and we will accept nothing less than a full victory...I wouldn't believe them anyway, but they wouldn't be the scum they are today.

#97

For what polls are worth, Hillary is now said to have a firm commitment of 19% of voters in her run for President.

ROFLMAO!

She'll have nearly all the DNC money, at, some say, nearly $200 million, which pretty much counts out Algore, even if he dumps his $60 million in Google stocks, and Kerry.

It couldn't be much better for the GOP in 2008!

rickatLandstuhl,

We here support you.

It must take a lot of energy not to want to spit at the MSM types slithering around in your midst.

#96 Poitiers-Lepanto:

The most important tool of survival (and I say this as a Jew, I gots to know, innit):

A sense of humor, mate :-)

JammieWearingFool

Too funny. I thought of you (in a purely friendly way of course) around 11:00-ish last night while watching Sports Center. This was shortly after watching the Red Sox lose after coming back from a 0-6 score to tie it then blow it. Clement suuuucks.

So let's have our courts marshal and see justice done. It is the right thing to do but as we go about this, let's remember the Good War (1941-1945) when the US bombed Dresden, Frankfort, Berlin, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki etc... In the Good War, civilian deaths came in the tens of thousands were considered a normal part of warfare and the horror of war brought about a lasting peace. Lasting peace results from the unconditional surrender of the enemy. The brutality of the Good War brought about that surrender and that peace.

Let's also resolve as a nation to show as proportional outrage over the hundreds of civilians shot, beheaded and blown to hell as a matter of policy by our enemies.

“If the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war, and not popularity seeking” - William Tecumseh Sherman

#77 republic

"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are sabotuers, and should be jailed, exiled or hanged."

Abraham Lincoln

Thanks for the quote. Lincoln lived in a simpler era where the purpose of war was to defeat an enemy.

We are in a war. Someone will win, someone will lose.

Pick a side.

Hmmm, baseball talk?

I was at a baseball game once. I wasn't old enough to drink then, which I suspect totally ruined the experience :_))))

World Cup's kickin' off in 10 days, wOOt!

#95

OK, your other two reasons were crap, too. Happy? Still licking the boots of your "I'll never nation-build" nation building president? Still believe in the mission? Great. I'll never change your mind. But that doesn't make me an idiot, or a traitor, or any of the other junk I'm sure is coming my way.

Going after Murtha-- it's called shooting the messenger. This campaign is a lemon. It's causing a lot of hurt that doesn't measure up against what it's accomplished or will accomplish.

Protesters chanted "Out of Olympia, Out of Iraq" as they rocked a chain-link gate to the port late Monday, and at least three tried to use wooden boards to pry the gate open, The Olympian newspaper reported.

Perhaps the left will pull a 1968/1972 and act so obnoxiously that they will had the election to the Republicans.

Why can't we apply the 'tiny minority' argument to this incident should it turn out to be as bad as it seems. Hundreds of thousands of muslims riot and cause havoc worldwide over the cartoons and it's brushed aside and/or justified. Single digit outburst in Haditha and the US military is a genocidal monster? Sounds about right.

OT

Der Spiegel interviews Ahmadinaawhateverhisnameis

SPIEGEL: But, Mr. President, who is swallowing Iraq? The United States has practically lost this war. By cooperating constructively, Iran might help the Americans consider their retreat from the country.

Ahmadinejad: This is very interesting: The Americans occupy the country, kill people, sell the oil and when they have lost, they blame others. We have very close ties to the Iraqi people. Many people on both sides of the border are related. We have lived side by side for thousands of years. Our holy pilgrimage sites are located in Iraq. Just like Iran, Iraq used to be a center of civilization.

The interview is insane.

A LLL reporter and one of the worlds foremost Jihadis. It is like watching two delusional psych-cases spar over their hallucinations.

It is enough to give you a headache.

#102

IF ONCE the Democrats had said: we want double money for the Armed Forces, we want to bomb flat our enemies, we want to win and we will accept nothing less than a full victory...I wouldn't believe them anyway, but they wouldn't be the scum they are today.

You have to go all the way back to WWII and FDR for that kind of resolve from a Democrat.

Of course, being a Democrat back then meant something totally different than it does now.

hi loppyd,

Thanks for the impure and salacious thoughts :D

We almost had the opposite occurence Sunday. A 6-0 lead over the Royals soon became 6-5 with Mariano being brought in to bail out the bullpen.

Losing once to the Royals was bad enough.

#108 Wisenheimer

Until they pry my cold dead fingers from my firearms, I'll believe that I am on the winning side.

: )

Iran: World must remember we passed point of no returnVice chairman of the Iranian Atomic Energy Program Mohammad Saidi said that the European countries should remember that Iran has passed the point of no return in its nuclear program.

Saidi said that if the world will recognize that, Iran will have no problems being supervised by the IAEA. Construction of a nuclear power plant in Iran will be possible soon, he added (Dudi Cohen)

THE POINT OF NO RETURN?....YOU MEAN YOU CANT GO BACK TO GAS...ITS ONLY ENERGY RIGHT?...BUT WHAT DO THEY MEAN?...OR IN THE WORDS OF GEN WEST CLARK..WE MUST ASK IRAN WHAT THEY WANT.

#105 Golden Jerusalem

The most important tool of survival (and I say this as a Jew, I gots to know, innit):

A sense of humor, mate :-)

Golden Words.

/well, of course paying the protection regularly helps a lot to survive too...

//takes away the cotton from his mouth and stops moving his hands in slow circles

/// Don Michele Corleone out

OT,

That's got to be a tough evening...

President Bush To Host WH Screening Of United 93 With Relatives Of The Heroes

116 JammieWearingFool

Thanks for the impure and salacious thoughts :D

Just don't tell the BF. ;-)

I'm out. Have a great day, all!

My congressional rep. Djhim Moran (D, Va-8th district) trotted out this troop trashing hunka junk Murtha to various "townhall meetings" to tout cut-and-run, abu ghraib, and now the coup-de-grace big lie--President Bush made our Marines animals.

To think the Pentagon where troops & civilians died is in Moran's district, and within eyesight daily of both these bloviating buffoons makes their holding office representing us a travesty.

Democrats' only response is therapy for terrorists, brickbats for troops & blame Americans first.

#111 hujambo

"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are sabotuers and should be jailed, exiled, or hanged."

Abraham Lincoln

I know that a belief like this is hard for you to swallow.

#108 Wisenheimer

We are in a war. Someone will win, someone will lose.

Pick a side.

You sound awfully not-nuanced and not-internationalist.
You will be sent to re-education in one of our MULTIVERSITIES (universities is a fascist-racist term that I have abolished).
You may choose: Teheran, Avana or PyongYang ?

One of the millions of things I hate about our disloyal opposition is that when something like the possibility that US troops intentionally killed civilians comes up, I am in a way prevented from expressing my outrage to the degree it exists because I have to expend so much energy yelling at them for perspective, perspective, perspective.

One almost doesn't have the luxury, for lack of a better word, of rightly condemning a few because one must constantly counter those who think it condemns the whole military, the whole US of A, indeed the whole of Western Civilization.

News Of The Future:

Former President Carter To Host "Democratic Response" Screening Of Fahrenheit 9/11 With Murtha, Moore At Atlanta's Carter Center

#125

ROFLMAO!

Very good!

#98 republic

#91 Ed

Do you think that the ratio of Military who voted for the GOP in 2004 at the rate of 70% GOP-17%Dem would change?

I think if Mutha ran with the Shrill one, you'd see more like 95% Gop - 3% Dem

Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease...

hujambo:

It's hardly "getting behind the Marines" to refuse to accept that a uniform makes you immune from doing criminal things. The point that critics of the war, and I am one, have been trying to make is that if you're going to put American troops in a position where incidents like these can happen (because it's war and shit happens), then it had better be for a real good reason.

Iraq is not that reason.

Wrong. Saddam had to go. Others may have to go.

This is a war. 9-11 happened.

I live in a country that has been at war with islamofascists using one label or another for like a 100 years.

The biggest mistake any American can make is assume this is going to be over soon.

The islamofascists know the weaknesses of the west, one being the constant questioning of one's (in perspective) tiny mistakes and totally insane insistence on aportioning blame and guilt, while losing complete focus on the greater evil: The enemy.

#120 Dar ul Harb 5/30/2006 10:22AM PDT

OT,

That's got to be a tough evening...

President Bush To Host WH Screening Of United 93 With Relatives Of The Heroes

Don't they realize Bush had their relatives killed while he read a children's book?

/tinfoil hat securely fastened

The locals believe that we are doing our best to get to the bottom of this.

Belated as the investigation was, the residents of Hay al-Sinnani say they were gratified by its thoroughness. That there have been three separate enquiries suggests the U.S. military “want to get at the truth,” says Walid Abdel Khaliq, the doctor of the Haditha morgue where the victims' bodies were taken.

They were especially impressed by the NCIS investigators. “They must have visited the houses 15 times,” says Khalid Raseef, a spokesman for the victims' kin and uncle of Emaan and Abdel Rahman Waleed, the children who lost almost their entire immediate family in the massacre. The investigators “asked detailed questions, examined each bullet hole and burn mark, and took all sorts of measurements. In the end, they brought all the survivors to the homes and did a mock-up of the Marines' movements. It was a very professional investigation.”

If there was an effort to cover this up then those who attempted it did more damage than those alleged to have conducted the atrocities. And they were atrocious, toddlers were said to have been murdered. The fact that if improprieties occurred those who did so will be punished and that will somewhat mitigate the damage to our image. This type of thing occurs in every war, what you almost never see are those responsible being held accountable. Has anyone heard of any other army where this happens?

#125 Poitiers-Lepanto

You will be sent to re-education in one of our MULTIVERSITIES (universities is a fascist-racist term that I have abolished).

LMAO!

The FBI is ending its search for Jimmy Hoffa's remains at a suburban Detroit horse farm, a local prosecutor says police told him. Oakland County Prosecutor David Gorcyca said Tuesday that he was informed by Bloomfield Township police that the search was ending at the Hidden Dreams Farm in Milford Township. ..........They might go back to fighting the war on terror..if they can find the time.........just kidding....But I am sick of Jimmy Hoffa

#107 distwalker

Let's also resolve as a nation to show as proportional outrage over the hundreds of civilians shot, beheaded and blown to hell as a matter of policy by our enemies.

Agreed, except your number is way low. The Islamo-fascists killed nearly 3,000 Americans in one morning. They've killed and maimed tens of thousands of Israelis over the years.

And they aspire to kill millions of innocents. So far, only their general incompetence has prevented them from achieving their goal. Iran's Islamo-fascist leaders hope to change that.

#125 Poitiers-Lepanto:

You sound awfully not-nuanced and not-internationalist.
You will be sent to re-education in one of our MULTIVERSITIES (universities is a fascist-racist term that I have abolished).
You may choose: Teheran, Avana or PyongYang ?

Ahem, brother, not to criticise in an unconstructive way, but you forgot to mention that courses are also available at the Islamic University of Gaza...

News Of The Future:

Former President Carter To Host "Democratic Response" Screening Of Fahrenheit 9/11 With Murtha, Moore At Atlanta's Carter Center

On their way to the peanutfarm, they'll view the Loose Screws video as a warmup.

OT--but you gotta go see "The Lost City," Andy Garcia's movie about Fidel Castro's true cost & true colors in Cuba, out right now in select venues. This movie is also about why we fight, though nothing is said about democrat JFK's disastrous Bay of Pigs halfhearted non-D-Day flop quagmire.

(Except #111 hujambo who thinks freedom isn't free and why not let Baathists be Baathists. Hujambo, you go watch "Reds" and other pro-fascist pap)

#136 Golden Jerusalem & PL

Or, at Palestinian Pyrotechnic,
an accredited ethnocentric Islamic multiversity.

Our motto is:
They blow up so soon.

Our mascot is:
The Vulture

Our School Song is:

#134 storagemanager 5/30/2006 10:30AM PDT

The FBI is ending its search for Jimmy Hoffa's remains at a suburban Detroit horse farm, a local prosecutor says police told him. Oakland County Prosecutor David Gorcyca said Tuesday that he was informed by Bloomfield Township police that the search was ending at the Hidden Dreams Farm in Milford Township. ..........They might go back to fighting the war on terror..if they can find the time.........just kidding....But I am sick of Jimmy Hoffa

I usually sit right above Hoffa at Giants games. No idea why they're wasting time in Michigan. Maybe when the new stadium is built, they can look for him (note to FBI: try Section 107).

With such range, a border skirmish with Hezbollah could potentially prompt an attack on Tel Aviv, or any location in Israel’s densely populated, industrial heartland.

Though not highly accurate, Hezbollah’s rockets, supplied by Iran, carry 600 kilograms of explosives capable of causing severe damage to any target. Since the rockets are propelled by solid fuel, they are easily mobile. That would make it difficult for Israel to remove the threat, in the event of a wider conflict.

Israel would almost certainly need to take Hezbollah’s rocket threat into account, when considering the possibility of military engagement against Iran or Syria.

Dr. David Buk’ai, a professor at Haifa University, said the potential for the Hezbollah to use the missiles effectively increases the need for the IDF to retaliate more harshly against minor Hezbollah provocations, in order to preserve the balance of deterrence.
ARUTZ SHEVA

AI,

Someone stole your nic and is posting as you!

#138 savage_nation

Of course, the IDF, they should have come to mind immediatly. Antone else? How about the UN peacekeepers?

#140 BZABZ

Palestinian Pyrotechnic

Our mascot is:
The Vulture

Only you...

To update the mantra Condi likes to use:

We have to be right every time to avoid the MSM painting every one of our troops as cold-blooded baby-killers, while the terrorists have to build just one day-care center.

Speaking of the MSM and coverage of terrorists, I noticed a lot of the "T" word used when the victims of what would otherwise have been an "activist"-planted bomb included some of their own.

;~P

hee-hee.

Meanwhile...

(AP) BAGHDAD, Iraq - A parked car bomb hit a popular market in a Shiite area north of Baghdad on Tuesday, killing at least 25 people and wounding 65, the Interior Ministry said. Another car bomb went off at a dealership in southern Iraq, killing at least 12 people and wounding 32.

Meanwhile, a key terror suspect who allegedly confessed to hundreds of beheadings has been captured, Iraqi officials said.

Our enemies commit jihad genocide practically every day.

Briones' best friend, Lance Cpl. Miguel "T.J." Terrazas, had been killed the day of the attack by the roadside bomb, his mother said. Briones was still grieving when he was sent in to clean up the bodies of the Iraqi civilians.

Why was a marine sent to clean up civilians?
Which house, or did both houses own the car bomb that destroyed a young marine?
Guerrilla warfare is a bitch.
A friend dies and we want payback. And the only enemy is the bastard in the house or houses that detonated the device.

The more I hear Murtha run off in the mouth,
the less I believe he was in Vietnam.

/he needs to get a real frigging job.

Aaaaarrrrrgh! I just got done slogging through the muck of a firedoglake thread about Lieberman. Some lowlights:

He, Bush, and Cheney, along with many others in the United Sates should be condemned and tried for genocide against the Palestinians.

it’s not just joe — mossad doesn’t want to lose a senate seat & will thus fight tooth & nail to elect either joe or a new neocon senator somewhere else to offset joe’s loss

His new nickname is “Rape Gurney Joe” because he says hospitals shouldn’t have to give morning-after pills to rape victims — they can always go to another hospital.

Can you feel the love?

#135 Ibrodsky

You are very right, my number is way low. I had intended to write "hundreds every week" but somehow forgot to add the "every week". Thanks.

#136 Golden Jerusalem

the Islamic University of Gaza...

I heard about that, fancy night life in the dorms: you never know WHAT you find when you lift the burqas...

/then they get humiliated and they HAVE to bomb someone or shoot some woman...

"Congressmen who willfully take actions that damage morale and undermine the military are sabotuers, and should be arrested exiled or hanged."

Abraham Lincoln

Could we get an objective source from which to verify this quote? I'd love nothing better than to use it elsewhere in a discussion I'm involved in, but I've never heard that particular Lincoln quote before and am afraid of being asked for proof of its validity. Any help?

Wow, a host of empty platitudes an apologism in the face of what the Pentagon itself describes as a very grave investigation into alleged cold-blooded, premeditated, willful murder, not a damn "mistake," or "horror of war," or "bad thing that happened."

The accounts supplied by the Pentagon indicate that the alleged actors were NOT acting in the heat of the moment to a rapid-fire chain of events, but rather after cold deliberation and the passage of time, i.e. a "cooling off period."

The linked article and a number of posts in this thread attempt to obfuscate the underlying issue of alleged cold-blooded murder of who appear to be innocent civilians, by blaming Murtha who was supplied with his information by the Pentagon. This is not a new story perpetrated by the dreaded "LLL" to smear the military on Memorial Day, therby helping "America's enemies" lose the war - an asinine tin-foil-hat assertion at best. The story has been touched upon in numerous periodicals, including "The Economist," "Time," and the WSJ since January of this year - if not earlier, and it was news well before Murtha said peep about it.

Has it occurred to anyone that one can still be supportive of the military as an honorable institution, while at the same time be critical of alleged criminal behavior? I mean, are individuals "brave heros" merely because they wear a uniform, or are they heros because of the substance of their character and the merit of their actions? The whole unblinking worship of men and women in uniform, solely due to wearing it smacks of irrational and childish idolatry.

Do not apologize for these men if they are in fact guilty of murder, by smearing the alleged victims, and a Congressman who is reporting facts supplied to him by the Pentagon. If the mythical doctine of "personal responsibility" ever applied to a situation, this would be it.

If they are in fact not guilty of the alleged offenses, than a full and public aknowledment should be forthcoming by all accusers, including Murtha.

Two men walking down the streets of gaza.....One turns to the other and says...man get a load of that Burka in front of us...wowza.

#31 hujambo 5/30/2006 09:32AM PDT
The left hasn't really been using this-- I actually heard about it through rightie blogs first-- this one and Michelle Malkin. I think the reaction from any sane person is going to be sadness about this incident, not gleeful gloating, and that's what I've seen so far even on DKos and the like.

It's hardly "getting behind the Marines" to refuse to accept that a uniform makes you immune from doing criminal things. The point that critics of the war, and I am one, have been trying to make is that if you're going to put American troops in a position where incidents like these can happen (because it's war and shit happens), then it had better be for a real good reason.

Iraq is not that reason.

Here's the reason.

157,

Such smug sanctimony. Thanks for gracing us with your lofty presence, Chomsky.

Sorry, meant 154.

#148 ibrodsky

Remember, though, that Murtha, and the left, and the msm, don't consider them our enemy, they refer to them as "freedom fighters"

Murtha, and the left, and the msm only expect the USA to play by the rules in war, all innocent civilians are looked at as "collateral damage" by them, who are killed by their "freedom fighters".

#80 hujambo

The objective in Iraq was regime change, for a whole host of reasons (something like 22 reasons if I recall correctly).
Regime change was called for, and supported by, a whole host of democrats, Europeans not getting rich selling weapons to Iraq and many in the UN not getting rich from Oil for Food.
I really don't have time to dig up links for the above, but they have been posted her many times in the past.

#154 Ringer

If the Marines are guilty, they should suffer the consequences of their actions. That being said, they are innocent until proven guilty, and I give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

What bugs me is the focus on any abuses committed by our forces vs. the media's willful ignorance of the abuses committed by our enemies.

Perfect. The usual troll strategy: they don't read the posts ( that unanimously ask for a punishment of any war crime), and use false arguments.

Perfect.

As long as the trolls (mis)behave like that, we (on the right of center) are pretty much the only sane voice in the Country.

Congrats for confirming what we already knew.

#154 Ringer

If they are in fact not guilty of the alleged offenses, than a full and public aknowledment should be forthcoming by all accusers, including Murtha.

Oh, yeah. Like that will ever happen.

The problem with Murtha is that he has been exploiting the situation while the facts are still being hashed out.

Regarding the "empty platitudes an apologism": You won't find that from me. Personally, I think that, if found guilty, the Marines involved should be brought before a firing squad as a warning to the rest of the military: Don't embarass the USA.

#154 Ringer

Other than Murtha who is saying it was cold blooded?

#153 Crusader

I got that exactly worded quote from HallindseyOracle.com, some time back.

congressmen like Murtha give us permission to declare wars,
and then shriek about the fucking horrors of it.

/We are all looking at him.
and i see a fucking democrat.

#154

Has it occurred to anyone that one can still be supportive of the military as an honorable institution, while at the same time be critical of alleged criminal behavior?

Has it occurred to you that isn't how this thing is being represented? If it were, the coverage would be proportional to the tens of thousands of murders conducted daily by our enemies. No, scratch that, this isn't even comparable on a one-to-one basis. Why? Because what those Marines allegedly did here isn't policy, it is criminal. Our enemies kill civilians as a matter of policy and they don't get half the outrage.

Tell you what, treat this for what it is: murder conducted by alleged criminals and I think you would see the result you are looking for. But it isn't being treated that way. Open your eyes! It is being used to condemn the entire effort in Iraq. Murtha whines constantly about the "pressure" of the war and how this exemplifies the problem. the media drones on and on not about "criminals" but about "Marines". Moonbats are calling us - veterans - universally sick and in need of help. Wake up. If this weren't being used by the left to tar the military, the war and the administration we could probably discuss this like it were a criminal act in a vacuum, but it is not. This story is like blood in the water to the left and will be used to undermine the war effort, the military, national security and all our interests.

As the father of an Iraq veteran who is pending return to the war zone, things just got much more difficult. If the individual Marines accused here did what they are accused of, they should be punished. Murtha, the media and the left are the elements who are really making my son's life more difficult and more dangerous.

China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea have a pivotal role in this movement and can, while uniting and standing firm on their principles, commence an Asian movement in international relations”, he added.
( People who think this axis is silly should read a history book....the World thought a nazi Germany, japan and Italy axis was a silly Idea also....But it is just history now!)

6 terp mole--yeah, what about all the pali child abuse, firing guns into the air, tapping little boys in the a**, car swwarm/body part removal, wily-nily rocket firing into Israel (not that planned firing is ok)

the MSM has allthese stories stacked up. NSA when bush goes to Europe, Secret prisons alleged when Sec of State is travelling. Numerous neg boming stories before Iraq elections, Haditha brweing beh the scenes when Tony Blair shows up.

I'd sure like to see the reporters followed and taped at their watering-holes. And release the tapes right after one of these planned smears.See how they like it, these great liberal, affirmative-action phonies.

I was doing my research and found this:

[Link: news.ft.com...]

savage nation

You can get on your knees and blow me...

even in the heat of battle,
you still cause me to spew on the frigging screen.

roflol

#163 and #165,

I agree whole-heartedly, to the extent that i do not think that (a) the meidia is really running with this story to the extent they will be if and when formal charges are brought (honestly, unless I've missed a hell of a lot of news, I haven't seen much about it on television. Print - more so); and (b) we see regular stories of Islamic violence and attrocities on a daily basis on television, but by this point don't we kind of expect such behavior from Islamic extremists? I mean, not to be crass, but don't we kind of get the drill by now?

That said, I don't feel quite comfortable comparing our men and women (whom we hold up as models) to terrorist actors who intentionally, as a matter of "policy" commit attrocities.

The current incident is clearly isolated and a million miles away from being illustrative of the norm vis-a-vis behavior in combat. Serious people understand that. I do find it somewhat dubious that Murtha appears to be trying to get ahead of this thing in an attempt to score political points (or maybe he's not; I mean the guy has a history of being rather hawkish). But politicians utilize such tactics all the time. For example, I found it extremely distasteful to use 9/11 to score political points.

The freakin' MSM reports jihadi and Iraqi terrorist murders and car bombs EVERY DAY. Because they do, people say they only focus on the negative things happening in Iraq. Yet, now many people on this thread would like to correct the so-called imbalance in coverage between terrorist actions in Iraq and U.S. military abuses.

This makes no sense. You have no arguments with which to defend beserk killings of, yes, women and babies in Iraq. What is it that we're going to do to win there again-- kill everyone? Then why have troops on the ground-- nuke it!

This is why you don't get involved in this type of war. Because the people you are there to "liberate" and defend, quickly become the same people you kill. What is the point of that?

171 AI,

We shall win this war because of our technology alone. No hearts or guts required!

/

149-Ibmkeyboard- Murtha is running against
some lady. I heard her on Medved's show, i think but I did not catch her name. One time I read a post that never had a follow up. That is that Murtha's district was gerrymandered into a moonbat area and he has bee handed all this crap to fart out by the donk-leadership if he wantsteh dough to run.

joewilson,

why did you out your wife, you media whore.

New York Times fellates Kos.

Disgusting. Calls the Kos Kids "ordinary".

#163 Ward Cleaver

What bugs me is the focus on any abuses committed by our forces vs. the media's willful ignorance of the abuses committed by our enemies.

It took the killing and injuring of their own for CBS to acknowledge this.

We and most other civilized nations subscribe to the laws of war. Iraqi insurgents and terrorists do not. For them, killing innocent civilians is not only permissible, but encouraged for the political effect it produces.

A response to Mitch Mitchell’s piece from a commenter at FDL:

Stupid bastard.

AI,

well they have ID's.... they are voter ID cards with the word "democrat" on them.

or did you mean the combatants? You can ID them at any mosque....

Suspected collaborators executed by 'Palestinians.' The woman was apparently also an 'honor killing.'

CiJ,

Well, thats a pali two-fer.

#154

And I'd like to know more about this mythical doctine of "personal responsibility"

OT: Fox News says that the Maryland jury has reached a verdict in the John Allen Muhammed murder trial.

#174 joewilson

Cool, man! Research me about ten more just like that.
That ought to keep you busy for a while...

#114 Rednek

Matters not what they say. It now matters only what we do.

I refer you to Charles Krauthammer's opinion piece on Nuclear hyper-Proliferation.

and a couple of pointed questions on an earlier thread.

Moonbats peppersprayed at Port Olympia.

Heh.

#167 republic

Hal Lindsey. Ah, The Late, Great, Planet Earth. I remember that from the early '70s.

I did a Web search and couldn't find this quote listed at any quotation sites. Just blogs and other similar places.

joewilson
.
.
.
hujambo
.
.
.
Ringer
.
.
.
Tokyo Rose
.
.
.
Axis Sally

hujambo

Here is an excellent, down-to-earth, common sense analysis of why we invaded Iraq from Michael Barone

He's a reasonable guy and maybe you will end up agreeing with him, as most of the posters on this site already do.

If not, then you are within your rights to hold silly, childish opinions.

#177 hujambo

A lot of reportage about the jihadi atrocities is a bit like "bomb goes off, xx killed" and in the worst cases "brave insurgents battle evil imperialists".

The problem is more in the moral equivalence than in the number of stories.

My only post here: this is another minefield thread.

20:47 UN Ambassador Dan Gillerman: World War Three is already here (Haaretz) ......But Whos the Enemy?....Does he have a Name?

gerrymandered into a moonbat area and he has bee handed all this crap to fart out by the donk-leadership if he wantsteh dough to run.

Big L,
So he sells out his Marine brothers for that almighty dollar.
At least that is better than me thinking that he has shit for brains.

/first ex-marine congress whore ive ever read about.

#80 hujambo

have you ever read the Resolution to go back to war with iraq?

it lists 23 reasons.

[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

the reasons to go to war are clear and beyond arguement.

the wisdom of doing so is something that can be talked about.

only time will tell.
but a lot of the problems in iraq have been caused by the lft in this country, not standing with Bush with a common front, in fact if that had been done, it is possible saddam would have backed down.

Are you people feeding the troll this morning ?

Don't feed the troll.

Get back to work.

Just a few comments here.

I see that one of the marine witnesses---who was not physically present during the actual massacre, he says he took pictures of the bodies afterwards---was interviewed by none other than the L.A. Times.

The L.A. Times has been caught with its pants down all too frequently in the past; the Ramparts scandal, and its coverage of the murder of rap star, which was exposed by Rolling Stone Magazine. Sadly, whatever it reports must be taken with a very large shaker of salt. Whatever the truth of this matter (and, myself, I think we should wait and see how the story unfolds) the Times can't be trusted.

joewilson is like a fart. Pops up unexpectedly, smells bad, eventually the stench fades.

Then it returns.

It considers cutting and pasting a web address as research.

Am I nuts or has John Murtha (D-Al Jazeera) never- NOT ONCE uttered anything positive about our troops or the many, many positive things they have accomplished in Iraq?

To hear this vampire speak you'd think 100% of our troops are serial killers and/or snivelling little weasels afraid of their own shadows forced into military service.

#194 ibrodsky

What? No Baghdad Betty?

#174 joewilson

"Neo-cons". YAWN. No names attributed to the so-called "neo-cons", but I'm betting they mean Juden. And they quote Francis Fukuyama? What a friggin' joke he is.

Research? Isn't your hand getting tired?

#177 hujambo

The freakin' MSM reports jihadi and Iraqi terrorist murders and car bombs EVERY DAY

And when useful idiots like you start calling for Al Qaeda to hold these terrorists responsible for the the murder of innocent people...then maybe, maybe I will start listening to you and your ilk!

But you will only hold one side of the conflict responsible, and give the other side a free pass!

#177

Yet, now many people on this thread would like to correct the so-called imbalance in coverage between terrorist actions in Iraq and U.S. military abuses.

This wasn't a "US military abuse". If it happened, it was just plain old run-of-the-mill murder and should be punished as such. Americans committed about 16,000 murders last year and will again this year. These 24 are an unremarkable proportion of that sum.

When an African American murders somebody in the United States do you refer to it as "black abuse" or is it just murder?

#204 Who Watches the Watchmen?

What was the name of that guy who kept briefing the press that the US was being defeated and Sadaam had everything under control?

I think it was Baghdad Bob...

Look, let's just blame this on Jesse MacBeth/al-Zaid, and be done with it. We can court martial and shoot up the murderous bastard and clear our image as a country. Case closed.

#192 Jammie

And they polluted the waters of Puget Sound by dunking their heads in it.

AI,

"Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh we agree as to the identity of the enemy, now let us see if actual identifying is going to take place..."

Been waitin since 9-11. Waiting to hear the blame placed squarely on islams shoulders. Waiting for the media to use the "M" word.

#193 Ward Cleaver

I emailed Hal, and asked for info as to were exactly he got that quote.

I'll post as soon as I can, with an update.

Hal is as honest a man as anyone will ever meet, so I am certain that it is an actual Lincoln quote.

You can bet that most Lincoln quote websites would not be very eager to keep a quote like that on their websites.

#16 Golden Jerusalem

Like you, I'm getting the sinking feeling that it's dejas vous all over again---same sh*t, different year (as you said). No matter what really happened, the MSM is going to try and spin this as My Lai II, and push for us getting out of Iraq, just as we got out of Vietnam.

Boat people you say? What boat people?

The wisest thing at this point would be to watch and see how the investigation unfolds, and not jump to conclusions. It sounds like investigation is still ongoing, and we don't have the whole story yet.

P.S. And whatever you do, don't unquestioningly accept anything the L.A. Times says!

OT: John Allen Muhammed guilty Murder one times six in Maryland.

#153, Crusader

It's apparently from a Civil War-era pamphlet published in 1863 by the Union League. (Forgive my linking to that particular site, BTW.) Snopes' investigation is inconclusive, and Wikiquote lists the quote as "attributed".

It's a quote attributed to Lincoln by his more radical political supporters, and it dates from the period. That's about all that can be said for its (in)authenticity.

It is interesting that the news of this incident is causing hardly a ripple in Iraq yet here in our own country filled with so many self rightgeous hypocrites this is going to be all news, all the time, with 6 inch letters on the cover of every magazine, newspaper, and any other type of print media.

J_A_G,

Agreed.... compared to what those brave, islamic, freedom fighters do on a daily basis, this is a drop in the bucket.

#214 republic

Thanks republic. I remember hearing Lindsey interviewed many years ago on talk radio.

Ward Cleaver,

#212 Ward Cleaver 5/30/2006 11:28AM PDT

#192 Jammie

And they polluted the waters of Puget Sound by dunking their heads in it.

It's too bad water doesn't intensify the effects of the pepperspray.

Quotations from Baghdad Bob:

April 7, 2003
"There is no presence of American infidels in the city of Baghdad."

With Media Pictures of U.S. Troops Being Shown Standing Under the Giant Crossed Swords in Saddam's Favorite Parade Grounds in Baghdad, While Giving a Press Briefing Around the Corner:
"There you can see, there is nothing going on."

After U.S. Missiles Destroyed His Office in the Information Ministry and He was Forced to Give Press Briefings on the Street:
"They will be burnt. We are going to tackle them."

Disputing His Own Assertions of No Coalition Troops in Baghdad:
"We blocked them inside the city. Their rear is blocked.... They pushed a few of their armored carriers and some tanks with their soldiers. We besieged them and I think we will finish them soon."

While American Soldiers Are Showering in Saddam's Bathroom Nearby Presidential Palace:
"We have killed most of the [coalition] infidels, and I think we will finish off the rest soon."

After Being Shown Footage of Iraqi Soldiers Surrendering:
"Those are not Iraqi soldiers at all."

April 7, 2003
"This invasion will end in failure."

April 8, 2003
"Baghdad Bob" disappeared, perhaps forever. On the other hand, perhaps he will return as Minister of Information for France or be awarded a drive time show on the new liberal talk radio network.

What is it that we're going to do to win there again-- kill everyone?

What hujambo posts here is exactly what I was talking about. Ditto the "US military abuse" pointed out by #207 diswalker.

They swear they do not hate all US troops or will not use this to smear all US troops, and understand it was only a few, but then they turn right around and ask if "we're" going to "kill everyone."

If this incident comes to be 100 percent true, it in no way, repeat no way, indicates any sort of US policy or plan of action to "kill everyone."

Asking otherwise reveals more about the speaker than the US military.

It is because of slurs like this that we feel the need to continually point out perspective, this compared to everything else, this in context. And for that, the same type that made such call for perspective necessary accuse us of "apology"

April 8, 2003
"Baghdad Bob" disappeared, perhaps forever. On the other hand, perhaps he will return as Minister of Information for France or be awarded a drive time show on the new liberal talk radio network.

Or maybe he's one of the three little trolls...

#217 Dar ul Harb
#153 Crusader

To clarify things, shall we just agree that from now on, all quotes on anything will be attributed to Mark Twain.

/

Folks the Marines and the military will finish up the investigation, which the Iraqi people seem to be impressed with and then we can decide where, if any blame should be placed.
How many of us have forgotten that little scuff up in Fallujah where reports came out concerning the number of civillian casualities the Army and Marines came across in the houses which had been killed by the insurgents. What happens if that turns out to be the case here? Where do the Marines go to get back their name?

#225 ibrodsky

April 8, 2003
"Baghdad Bob" disappeared, perhaps forever. On the other hand, perhaps he will return as Minister of Information for France or be awarded a drive time show on the new liberal talk radio network.

Baghdad Bob is now an anchor for an Arab tv News station. It is not Al Jazeera but a different one.

#217 Dar ul Harb

Thank You.

I realized after researching some "Lincoln quote" websites that it was going to be tough to find.

Thanks to at least one wacko kook leftist blog, it is there for all to see.

Of course, the left despises a quote like that, because it could severely affect their leftist kook Congressmen who "willfully take actions during wartime that damage moral and undermine the military"

Al Franken can talk on national tv, about "executing Bush, and Cheney, and Rumsfeld", and the left is cheering wildly, yet, you take a quote from Abraham Lincoln that talks about a very reasonable, accurate attitude, and they go balistic with anger.

leftist hypocricy at its best.

Lincoln is one of those historical figures that's a "quote magnet."

If someone wants a particular quote repeated, they can attribute it to Lincoln, and it'll get propagated...

At the Republican National Convention in 1992, Ronald Reagan brought the audience to its feet by quoting Abraham Lincoln thus:

"What the Democrats truly don't understand is the principle so eloquently stated by Abraham Lincoln:

`You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.'"

In its article on the Reagan speech, U.S. News & World Report noted that Reagan's Lincoln sayings were actually four of 10 "axioms" created by William J. H. Boetcker, a Pennsylvania preacher, who printed his maxims in a 1916 pamphlet.

From what I've read, Boetchker didn't intentionally mislead that his "cannots" were by Lincoln, but he did such a poor job of layout on his pamphlet that people got the real Lincoln quote he used mixed up with his own text...

#220 Ward Cleaver

You are most welcome!

Baby born with third arm.

Yikes.

Then again, this is an AP story, so it could be complete bullshit.

To the flaming asshats on this thread

The UCMJ is notoriously humorless on war crimes. makes for a bad image and hurts morale. The JAG will investigate quite extensively, and if they find anything, will nail the alleged reprobates to the wall. Or execute them.

Life will go on.

thats how it works

#229 taxfreekiller

You mean Kerry has finally released All his military records?

WOW!

And not a minute too late, I mean, he's only been promising to do so for over two years!

/Bravo Senator Kerry!

#226, Silhouette

Heh™

Which reminds me of a Twain quote I've been looking for a source on for many years. I recall reading something by Twain in which he described the effect of a shotgun as "comprehensive". Haven't been able to find it since.

Anyone? Bueller?

#234

If it's found to be insurgents, responsible, will they get "glazed chicken" at Gitmo?

Baghdad Bob is now an anchor for an Arab tv News station. It is not Al Jazeera but a different one.

We will smash the Marine tanks and personel carriers with our white Toyota trucks.
after watching the fireworks.
I bought a black toyota truck,
those suckers can take 400 rounds from a Marine mini gun,
and keep on going, even without the driver.

JWF,

It's the return of Vishnu, here to speed up Meggido!

Like you, I'm getting the sinking feeling that it's dejas vous all over again---same sh*t, different year (as you said). No matter what really happened, the MSM is going to try and spin this as My Lai II, and push for us getting out of Iraq, just as we got out of Vietnam.

I agree. I can't say that I remember Vietnam, but I do know a lot about history. It has become apparent that American liberals will undermine any effort made by the United States to prosecute a war for any reason. They will do whatever it takes to sap the American public's morale and ensure that the U.S. doesn't have the stomach for war. The conflict in Iraq is neither bloody (only 2400 American dead), protracted (three and a half years), or unjustified. Yet already our weak sisters and political opportunists have managed to declare it a humiliating defeat.

#224 Silhouette

Seriously, if our aim was to kill everybody in Iraq, why would we have bothered with a land invasion in the first place?

We'd just have nuked it, then turned to the UN with a big (metaphorical) grin on our face and said something like, "OKAY, SUE US!"

Hey tfk!

Apparent source of that quote. For sale for $225 (it is rare).

President Lincoln's Views. An Important Letter on the Principles Involved in the Vallandigham Case. Correspondence in Relation to the Democratic Meeting, at Albany, N.Y. (Cover title: The Truth from an Honest Man. The Letter of the President.) by LINCOLN, Abraham

Philadelphia: King & Baird, Printers, 1863. 8vo. Pale blue wrappers. 16pp. Very good. Minor edgewear and bit of age toning to outer wrappers. Lincoln refuses to back down and release Vallandigham from prison on the grounds of public safety. Scarce -- a clean, attractive copy. First edition. Another printing bears tan wrappers but is in every way identical; no priority has been established. MONAGHAN 242. SABIN 41159..

Some university probably has it scanned in somewhere.

Addendum: my above about President Lincoln was in response to 153 Crusader. Sorry.

#229 taxfreekiller 5/30/2006 11:45AM PDT
ps OT

Re: The New Yuck Time Out and here comes
Lt. Kerry once more, and per NYT, clean as the driven snow.

to quote them,,

Kerry has released all his Navy Records.

Gosh....does this mean we have to stop taunting Gordon about them now?

As an aside, there's a commonly attributed Samuel Adams quote that has similar authentication problems to the Lincoln "arrested, exiled or hanged" quote we were discussing earlier:

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
--attributed to Samuel Adams (1722-1803), August 1, 1776

This quotation, often attributed to Samuel Adams, is taken from a pamphlet first published in London, purporting to be the text of an oration delivered by Adams, titled An Oration Delivered at the State-House in Philadelphia, to A very numerous Audience, On Thursday, the 1st of August 1776.

Trouble is, there is no other historical record of such a speech in any of the diaries or letters of Adams' familiars, or in any American newspapers of the period. Internal evidence as well casts doubt upon the pamphlet's authenticity, since the oration contains no mention of the Declaration of Independence, which had been approved only the previous month.

The Continental Congress (of which Adams was a member) was also in session that day; and the following day, the engrossed copy of the Declaration of Independence was signed, but this information escaped the awareness of the false "oration"'s presumably British author. Nonetheless, the above quotation is in Adams' style, and may well reflect rhetoric he had usedelsewhere.

Unfortunately for history, Samuel Adams' highly effective speeches have not survived to the present day, having been discarded after they, in his words, "had served their purpose".

Charles sidebar news,
just today.

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Car bombs and other attacks killed at least 49 people Tuesday across
Iraq as the government struggled with deteriorating security. The deadliest bombing occurred at a popular market during the evening in Husseiniyah, about 20 miles north of Baghdad, killing at least 25 people and wounding 65, said Lt. Colonel Falah al-Mohamedawi, an Interior Ministry spokesman.

/the Marines are responsible.

#241 talking kamel

Hujambo and the Murtha chorus dismiss the bulk of the time our troops distribute candy, medical care, books, toys, schools, water, electricity, protecting Iraqi oil facilities from destruction by jihadists trying to take Iraq back to the stone age instead of forward to freedom, productivity, and peaceful lawful existence.

#234 jewels:

The Navy CIS is still investigating and the JAG office would prosecute the case based on the evidence collected if that's where the evidence leads.

#229 tfk, #235 desert sage:
Kerry has done no such thing as fully release his DD-214. He has retold the same stories several times and may have brought forward a few new details in that NYT story and even a few new folks who he claims supports his story, but the full and complete DD-214 has not been released.

Savage Nation

"blow me"?

"foad"?

It has been a pleasure debating with you, nitwit.

What is "foad"?

251 joewilson
FOAD means "Fuck Off And Die."

#248 alegrias

Sadly, people like Hujambo, and Murtha, and many Leftists are so wrapped up in their ideology they've come to hate our country, and want to see it brought down.

Rather horribly, I suspect they're secretly overjoyed by news of something like Haditha, since it gives them the golden opportunity to condemn America, and try and make the rest of us feel guilty.

#251 joewilson 5/30/2006 12:09PM PDT
What is "foad"?

Check the LGF Dictionary

Murqtaad,

它是一Meggido的人 5112;争,世界上((在&# 21315;年)以前在以 3394;列的在平原Ç 78;区域中打. ... 根据印度人的,V ishnu已已假定九Ç 79;凡化作人形 ...

Not sure if this clears anything up.

#240 dirk diggler:

As if recasting Haditha as My Lai II wasn't enough (and the investigation isn't even complete - it's ongoing with an NCIS investigation team collecting evidence and testimony), AP/CNN ran a story yesterday about how the Koreans want an apology over No Gun Ri in 1950. As DenBeste noted:

It's Memorial Day today in the US, and so the AP runs an article regarding allegations of war crimes committed by US soldiers in Korea in 1950. Because on Memorial Day we wouldn't want anyone to forget that every US soldier is a baby killer at heart, would we?

#252 Joel,

Thanks, sorry I asked.

251 joewilson 5/30/2006 12:09PM PDT

What is "foad"?

Do some "research," numbnuts.

The German-French tv-channel "ARTE" is actually propagating the anti-war group "not in our name".

rednek (#165),

I think that, if found guilty, the Marines involved should be brought before a firing squad as a warning to the rest of the military: Don't embarass the USA.

You believe in show executions for "embarass"ing the USA.

What's to debate?

jwf @ 255,

I hope my post didnt look like that.... one of vishnu's arms must be in my 'puter.

#258 JammieWearingFool 5/30/2006 12:16PM PDT

251 joewilson 5/30/2006 12:09PM PDT

What is "foad"?

Do some "research," numbnuts.

What is "numbnuts"? ;)

The only thing worse than a troll is a really stupid troll.

I wonder is he knows what STFU and STFD mean?

JammieWearingFool (#283),

He doesn't not know what FOAD means.

He thinks he's being clever and "outing" LGF as a hate site.

Murqtaad,

I just plugged those names into a search and came up with Chinese characters which managed to be coded right and appeared here intact.

What it means, I have no idea. Just playing around. Or as the clueless troll would say, I was doing some "research".

"researching" your bong can make you real tired-like.

#257 joewilson

Hey JW, did you research those stories for me yet?
I'm waiting...

Geepers,

And all this time I've been here because I was told it's a hate site :D

But a friendly one...

LGF: A Friendly Hate Site.

Rotating head material?

#265 Jammie

What it means, I have no idea. Just playing around. Or as the clueless troll would say, I was doing some "research".

Except that the troll's "research" usually causes a repetitive motion injury to the right arm, and callouses on the palm and fingers.

#264 Geepers 5/30/2006 12:21PM PDT
JammieWearingFool (#283),

He doesn't not know what FOAD means.

He thinks he's being clever and "outing" LGF as a hate site.

And the more the phrases "hate site", "hate speech", etc are used in a hyperbolic sense, the less they mean.....just like "racism" and "racist" which used to mean discrimination based on race and now just mean disagreement with a member of a minority group....and "homophobic", "islamophobic".....disagreement with a homosexual or Muslim.

If these marines are guilty then they will pay dearly and they should.I had a fear as a platoon sgt that others in command have;that is,a fear of loosing your command i.e your men acting like a mob not soldiers.Mei Lai was a fine example of that those men became a mob,and that is the blackest spot to have have as a leader of men in the field and there has never been an excuse for it.when a unit deploys its like a town moving elsewhere.and even the smallest towns have crime . One of my own squad leaders went to Levenworth for a brutal rape of a young woman and we were only deployed here in the u.s,one of my boys from 2nd platoon murdered his wife.so you see this happens even in peace time. compounded with deployment overseas,hostile fire,unsupportive "leaders" and vocal do-gooder whiners,these things will happen. murder is murder and one will pay for it if one is caught and ucmj is not about parole or rehabilitation it punishes!Now all you experts out there with your "Vast" concept of geo-politics should realise that it is a dirty business;as of 2001 Bejing and Iran have agreed to build a rail system from Tehran to Beijing. Xinhua and arab news carried this before 9-11; im sure it can be found, ill look for them again when i have more time.just an example of the world powers and how they have to play the game. the left needs to make up its mind which country it wants to live in a nation being stood over or a nation doing the standing over its as simple as that.and most folks cant handle the truth about spheres of influence,response to crisis etc. that is why as that guy in Batman Begins says "you shouldnt trouble yourself with the problems of scary people" long live the republic

#269 Ward Cleaver

Except that the troll's "research" usually causes a repetitive motion injury to the right arm, and callouses on the palm and fingers.

Hmmmm. Must be a master researcher....

Who is to say how any of us would react under the circumstances these brave soldiers have to face. However, if they REALLY killed a bunch of people out of payback, they HAVE to be punished severely. Unlike the left, I feel that our military wants to do the right thing in this situation, and i'll defer to whatever they say. God bless all the men and women over there, though. I could never do what they do. Thats why they're ALL fucking heroes in my book. Sress levels that high are bound to lead to tragedies, i would imagine.

EEEgads my grammar stinks sorry guys for the run ons etc trying to work with my right while dickering on lgf with my left my humblest apologies.

while dickering on lgf with my left my humblest apologies.

Charles will ban you for dickering.

lol

270,

I agree. In a sense your conclusion jibes with my first post on this thread in that the media blew such a minor event like Abu Ghraib out of all proportion, it's now difficult to raise any passion about this alleged incident at Haditha.

People have been walking around for years hearing about "horrors" that never happened that when an actual atrocity may have occured, they yawn.