firsties

Screw that!

#1

Sorry. Can't seem to resist that.

Looks like Americans overseas cannot vote (there is no "AE" etc.).

Agghhh!

For those that forget this story of outrage, please check out my original Exposé of the Flight 93 Memorial Project.

After all the uproar, we were assured that it was to be changed!

Someone tell me this is a joke.

Can I ask what WERE the changes that were made so far?
'Cause I don't see any.

just goes to show that Paul Murdoch's apology, explanation and promise to redesign was nothing but taqquiya.

Anybody got the goods on when his conversion was?

Crescent of Disgrace brought to you by the Teresa Heinz Foundation.

Everyone say 'blogstorm'! I am sure LGF can make a difference!

I'll definately leave my 2 cents with the project people..

OT, but big. From Drudge Report.
BOB NOVAK, My Leak Case Testimony: 'I learned Valerie Plame's name from Joe Wilson's entry in 'Who's Who in America'... MORE Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has informed my attorneys that, after two and one-half years, his investigation of the CIA leak case concerning matters directly relating to me has been concluded. That frees me to reveal my role in the federal inquiry that, at the request of Fitzgerald, I have kept secret... MORE... My primary source has not come forward to identify himself... Bill Harlow, the CIA public information officer who was my CIA source for the column confirming Mrs. Wilson's identity. I learned Valerie Plame's name from Joe Wilson's entry in 'Who's Who in America'... I answered questions using the names of Rove, Harlow and my primary source.

Well, for what it's worth, I rendered my opinion.

Here are my submitted comments:

It is a travesty. Why not just build a mosque on the site and call it a day? Only a fool wouldn't understand why the original, unaltered (crescent-shaped) design is a slap in the face to the victims and the vast majority of the American public.

OUTRAGEOUS! Over my dead body.

I second the blogstorm suggestion.

So let's recap...England may change its' hundreds year old flag because the red cross may offend Muslims and we design memorials to Islamic killers using Islamic symbols.

Okay. This is what it's like to live in the Bizzaro World.

You just can’t make this stuff up.

These people (Muslims, apologist, liberals, moral and religious equivalence experts, you know, those people) will just not quit.

This issue will get very ugly, very quickly.

//release the hounds…..

Islam is gaining ground everyday.

This link needs to passed on to all of the many friends, family and co-workers that we LGFers have.

What happened to the changes to the memorial that were promised by its designer? It appears he was just engaged in taqiyya for the rubes.

The only connection this memorial should have with Islam is the basic fact that the passengers and crew of Flight 93 are dead directly at the hands of islamic terrorists - terrorists who killed another 2800 people on that same day.

OK, my next question is what do we need to do to get the Flight 93 memorial project manager, Jeff Reinbold tossed and then get Paul Murdoch Architects removed completely?

Obviously neither can be trusted with this memorial project anymore.

I left my droppings over there too.

NOVACK BREAKS SILENCE:

HIS MAIN SOURCE FOR THE OUTING OF VALERIE PLAME:

JOE WILSON!

IM NOT SHITTING YOU

OK, I just sent a quick comment to the Flight 93 comment page, not that it will make a difference:

Shame shame shame shame shame.

Did Paul Murdoch really think he could get away with merely changing some of the colors on the map of the memorial, and adding a few trees? The outrageousness of the original design is unaltered.

This will not stand. The American people are watching you. It shall be changed, for real this time. Paul Murdoch obviously is compromised, and has a hideous political agenda.

Save yourselves a lot of effort and heartbreak and call for a new design now. It will happen eventually, so just spare us the unnecessary fight.

MORE:

FLASH: Bob Novak will break his silence tomorrow night in two separate interviews with FOXNEWS CHANNEL, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned. Novak will appear on Brit Hume (6pm/et) and Hannity & Colmes (9pm/et)...

TO: Anyone
RE: Who the HECK...

...is in charge of this fiasco at the National Park Service?

And how do I get in touch with them?

Regards,

Chuck(le)

After all the uproar, we were assured that it was to be changed!

Given the games being played with the Ground Zero memorial - and the addiction to political correctness - why should we be surprised by the lies and misdirection over the Flight 93 memorial.

It's outrageous that a memorial to passengers who, in effect, were mass murdered by jihadists would in any way resemble the symbol of the ideology that inspired the hijackers/mass murderers.

The people behind the memorial are either insane or have been intimidated by Muslim thugs.

My submission:

You have got to be kidding! What part of "no Islamic crescents in the memorial to innocent men and women murdered by Islamic terrorists" don't you understand?!

This new redesign is absolutely outrageous, just as bad as the first! It's a flagrant slap in the face to ALL who died on that plane; an insult to every innocent life lost to Islamic fundamentalist killers. I demand that this design and designer be rejected at once and have written to my congressperson and Senators about it.

I think a memorial in the shape of a hand "flipping the bird" pointed in the direction of Mecca would garner more positive votes than the Islamic crescent shaped memorial at this point. Why doesn't Murdoch just have a huge pair of lips kissing a gigantic A$$ with a crescent tattooed on it?

#30 ibrodsky
The people behind the memorial are either insane or have been intimidated by Muslim thugs.

As rayra and I uncovered at the time, Paul Murdoch is a mushy-brained liberal who thinks "embracing" the Muslims is some kind of feel-good gesture.

So, I guess that counts as "insane."

I gave them a piece of my mind, especially about asking for peoples' names, and street and email addresses.

Like I want CAIR filing an FOIA, getting my personal info, and dispatching their jihadis to bug me. F*ck that.

Another good reason to leave all of these moonbats here in Pennsylvania. Finish school, and I'm gone!

Just put up a big Mo Cartoon, surround the place with armed militia and let's go .And no I am not being sarcastic.

I guess I could live with a Crescent-shaped flight 93 memorial, but in return I'd like a giant cross illuminated every night atop the rubble of the Al Aqsa mosque...I only think that's fair.

Boiling.

This was already addressed. The public spoke. This bastard could care less about what the public wants.

I am calling Santorum's office in the morning.

What a son of a bitch.

Murdock redesign plagiarized!

Pair seek credit for Flight 93 memorial

PITTSBURGH - Two college professors who submitted a design for a memorial to those who died aboard United Flight 93 on Sept. 11, 2001, say changes made to the winning submission include elements of their entry, and they want credit for them.

But officials with the Flight 93 memorial, to be built on the site of the crash near Shanksville, said any similarities are just coincidence. Many of the more than 1,000 designs that were submitted contained similar themes, they said.

Lisa Austin and Madis Pihlak claim the winning design includes about 10 ideas included in their submission, titled Sacrifice. They include a break in a grove of trees to mark the flight path, a sound element built 93 feet high, the planting of blue coneflowers at the entrance and a curving wetlands path.

The pair said the winning design, created by Los Angeles-based Paul Murdoch Architects, did not originally include anything from their design. However, the Murdoch plan was redesigned last fall to change a crescent shape that some people deemed offensive, and the resulting design included elements of Sacrifice, Austin and Pihlak claim.

Will the "memorial marker" count still include the three terrorist hijackers as passengers and, therefore, "victims" of the "crash"?

"general management or environmental impact" was the question.

I think these guys will have to post a hearing. We had better find out about when it is.

Words fail me.

From the linked page for comments, this caveat is easily overlooked:

Would you like your contact information kept private?

(It is the practice of the National Park Service to make all comments, including names and addresses of respondents who provide that information, available for public review following the conclusion of the [NEPA] process. Individuals may request that the National Park Service withhold their name and/or address from public disclosure. Commentators using this website can make such a request by selecting YES. The National Park Service will honor such requests to the extent allowable by law, but you should be aware that National Park Service may still be required to disclose your name and address pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act.)
( ) Yes
( ) No

Zombie, I just want to say, thank you for your fortitude. I have a feeling you are only going to get busier.

Here is the comment where I broke the story of Paul Murdoch's political leanings:

#29 zombie 9/8/2005 10:02PM PDT

Paul Murdoch, the winning architect, is a total moonbat -- AS REVEALED IN THIS POST HE MADE to the Robert Greenwald blog:

The class action suits voted by Senator Obama was wrong. Either he stands for the consumer and working class or he stands for the corporations.
Saying he is young and needs time in the Senate is a poor excuse to say the least.
You go to the Senate to work on problems that face American's. You set your self a goal. Senator Obama is working and setting a goal. The only problem is the goal is to help corportations.
What's next, will he vote to take away the overtime pay that Bush tried last time or how about settling the asbestos claims that the Republican's want so badly.
Once again the working class has been defeated. This time from one of our own.
Posted by: Paul Murdoch at February 25, 2005 08:50 PM

Gotta be the same Paul Murdoch -- concerned with the same issues.

Can you believe this? They chose a Marxist for the Flight 93 Memorial?

Beyond un-freakin'-believable.

I believe the most effective complaint against this is that anything even remotely symbolic of Islam (and this is more than remote) whether intentional or unintentional will legitimize a link between the terrorists and Islam. Radical Islamists will be able to point to this memorial as proof that they have the true claim to Islam, since even the United States demonstrates it. The audience hearing this won't bother consulting the US officials about whether that's true or not. The result is a huge slap in the face to all moderate Muslims who already have a difficult time with those who are hijacking their religion without having the US giving aid to those hijackers.

#38 former corpsman

I am calling Santorum's office in the morning

Great idea.

#18 storagemananger jesus wins end of story.

zombie (#45),

As near as I can tell this isn't a memorial for those murdered, rather their killers.

I'm suprised there isn't a little White House (the intended target) in the middle of the cresent that bursts into flames every half hour.

Or would that be too obvious?

I've always felt we should rebuild the World Trade towers exactly where they were, except twice as big. Or, like the other poster suggested, in the shape of a big middle finger.

The PA monument should reflect that same truly American sentiment, not a some psuedo-intellectual's globalist moral equivalency.

moderate Muslims who already have a difficult time with those who are hijacking their religion

Ooopsy...

They might as well erect a giant box cutter too

It's bad enough to have your loved one disappear into a crater, but this adds insult to injury.

shame on these people

Both Jeff Reinbold and Paul Murdoch Architects should be removed completely from this project and their judgment is no-longer to be trusted.

What Paul Murdoch Architects is trying to do is build a memorial to the very religion that MURDERED Americans on 9/11.

NO CRESCENTS THAT PAY HOMAGE TO ISLAM!

What you are trying to do is the moral equivalent to constructing a holocaust memorial in the shape of a swastika.

I would rather see no memorial rather than one that pays respect to the very extremism that caused those passengers to be murdered in the first place.

#49 Geepers zombie

(#45),

As near as I can tell this isn't a memorial for those murdered, rather their killers.

It has been since Day One. Even if the Marxist who designed denies it, that is absolutely how it will be seen in the Islamic world (and most everywhere else).

It is deeply insulting to the victims of 9/11, intentional or not.

I wrote:

I have kept track of the controversy regarding the memorial's design, but must say that although I find the cresent design somewhat disturbing, it is the complete lack of acknowledgement that the attack was an attack on the United States that upsets me the most. The victims of Flight 93 were victims due to an attack on the U.S. Shouldn't this be remembered? If you think I am being reactionary, please read 'the letter from the designer'. He goes out of his way to avoid using the word 'America' anywhere. It leads me to one conclusion, he does not get it. He does not see this as a memorial to the victims of an act of war againt America. This memorial should be redesigned.

For what it is worth, I sent an e-mail via Charles' link.

Dammit.

In my comment, I included the question:

What's next, a synagogue shaped like a swastika?

Think that'll get their attention?

Spiny Norman: Even if the Marxist who designed financed it denies it...

#40 Me

Will the "memorial marker" count still include the three terrorist hijackers as passengers and, therefore, "victims" of the "crash"?

Well, I answered my own question by reading Charles' link.

Project Manager Jeff Reinbold admits that the Crescent/Bowl design has forty four glass blocks emplaced along the flight path, exceeding the number of our murdered heroes by the number of their murderers, but he says that if we are going to start counting numbers glass blocks in the design, we also have to count the windows in the Visitors Center.

Can someone please explain to me just what the fuck that is supposed to mean and how it excuses the memorializing of mass murdering TERRORISTS!?!

This is truly depressing. Every Islamist from Jakarta to Jerusalem will see this as evidence of their coming triumph. They don't see gestures from non-Muslims as tolerance, but as a form of obeisance that is their right. You can allow, and even pay for, a thousand mosques in America, Britain and Canada. They still won't permit a single church in Saudi Arabia, and will condone the regular burning of others in Pakistan, Indonesia and Bangladesh. What will it take for people outside the lizardsphere to grasp this elementary fact? Seriously.

I don't understand what's happening to our world.

#16 Blue Chip . . .

These people (Muslims, apologist, liberals, moral and religious equivalence experts, you know, those people) will just not quit.

I agree. We are deep into a major war for civilization, and our governmental institutions, the press, the schools, are quickly falling to the enemy. The fact that my senator, Durbin, wants to let the prisoners out of Guantanamo speaks volumes. Who is paying off this man? Is George Soros really that powerful? Have the Saudis bribed that many people already?

If so, we need to stop Soros and to break up the nasty kingdom of S and send them back to their camels ASAP.

/I'm angry

ZOMBIE

There are hundreds of Paul Murdochs in the United States.

All they would have to do is add a hammer and sickle to make it complete. /s

I say scrap the memorial for now. Wait a few years and then try again.

#45 zombie has a Good find.

They chose a Marxist for the Flight 93 Memorial?

Marxist, eh? Is that the same as dhimmi or jihadi?

I can never remember.

This is what I've sent them:

Please count me as one of the many who are appalled at the current design for the memorial. An islamic crescent,especially one pointing towards Mecca and incorporating other aspects of islamic design, is NOT appropriate. Neither is including the hijackers among those memorialized (the glass bricks). We may not be at war with Islam, but the creatures responsible for the crash did what they did in the name of Islam. To use their symbols to remember those they killed can be seen as validating their actions.

I will be contacting my congressman and senators to express my concerns about this project.

This is on par with holding Islam Expo on the commeration day for the 7/7 bombings of London.

What really surprises me is that minarets, with bridges, have not been built on the site of the WTC to show fraternity and dialogue among all faiths.

C'mon Liberals - how can you allow such an opportunity to pass?

Lizard by the Bay (#60),

Maybe they could designate the glass blocks with "shaheed" and "little Eichmann".

Claiming precognition.

Well, not precognition. We just wanted to be right, so we ignored the obvious.

Hello

Again

Lemme slip into a slightly modified tinfoil hat...

===

There was never any consideration of changing this memorials dedication to the sacrifice of the 19. This request for comments serves only to reveal the names and addresses of all who oppose Allah, refuse to submit to Allahs word, or are Jews.

===

Damn, the hat fits.

REGISTRATION
EQUALS
CONFISCATION,
R

As much as I hate giving info over the internet I gave it here. If giving my name and address is the price to make my voice heard, it is worth whatever small risk.
What I wrote:

This is a disgrace. Islam killed these people. The crescent is the symbol of islam. The original crescent was unnacceptable. The new crescent is unacceptable. Shame on you.

JWM

38-formercorpsman- right! waht a son of a bitch. Murdoch is such a twat. he thinks no doubt that it is clever.
also the parkservice does not need all that info on "we, the people" It is OUR Parks dpt.

My post at #54 was the comment I submitted to the National Park Service.

Let's make it very simple, if there is no giant cross in the memorial it is not changed enough. A star of David in there also would be nice too, doubtless there were some jewish people on the plane. A crescent is not necessary we now there were muslims on the plane: there must be three restrooms build at the memorial.

Doesn't anyone find it a striking coincidence that the carnage occurred just after Sen Joe "Plugs" Biden made his crass remarks about Indians?

/conspiracy theorist

I forgot to copy what I sent, but it was basically a greatly expanded version of my #55.

#59 Terp Mole

That's just... umm... great.

:^þ

#50 Cato

Cato, Charles doesn't like phone numbers posted in comments. Please refrain. We had this problem with posting Paul Murdoch's phone number last time too. The email is OK -- it's on my Flight 93 page too.

Charles -- phone number alert at #50.

Sent mine as well:

" Once again, you are incorporating the design of a crescent into this site.

This is inappropriate in the extreme.

The focus of this memorial,(and it IS supposed to be to the passengers and crew of UA Flight 93, as your mission statement says, in case you have forgotten), should be skyward, back along the course track where their heroism occurred; into the ground where they met their end,(perhaps your precious crescent could be rendered in black marble at the impact point, Vietnam Wall-style), and skyward again, towards the capital city that was saved by their heroism, and the heavens to which they will forever inhabit.

I think you should immediately ponder on what it is that you are trying to accomplish here.

This memorial is not about "making peace",you are neither warriors nor diplomats, but about honoring those who gave their lives in our first victory in the Global War on Terror.

See that you do not forget that fact.
We will not.

Regards;"

#72: jwm

I gave my name too.

I suspect we're getting past the point of having the luxury of taking sides anonymously.

68-DPP- I 'll bet that the WTC memorial will include provisions for a paryer area or rooms and the only one that will be funded and built will be the mosque one. Just watch and see.

I also gave them a piece of my mind...I said (among other things) that the monument wasn't supposed to be a giant act of appeasement. Think they'll get it?

Last week I saw an ad in a magazine (Newsweek?) soliciting contributions for the Flight 93 memorial. If all else fails, we should get out the word not
to contribute to this slap in the face.

Air Traffic Control Recording of 9/11 Flight 93.

It is unbelievable. Everyone should protest this - it not only devalues the lives of the heroes on flight 93, but the all the lives of those lost on 9/11, not to mention the lives that have been lost of our soldiers - not to mention those that have bravely come home after loosing limbs.
It is time we stand up for what is right and show that America is still strong - that we have a back bone and will not bend or bow to Islam or anything else.

#80 LibraryGryfon:
Absolutely. At this point I have no qualms about going on the record as one utterly and completely opposed to any accomodation of any moselm agenda. In the words of noted moonbat Markos Moulistas:
SCREW 'EM!

JWM

I was really hoping the Memorial Committee would select my design, "Don't F*ck With US."

It featured a 60 foot tall animatronic eagle ripping the head off a paper mache jihadi, which it then craps into a pig sty. Choreographed to "American Badass."

This is what I just posted at the Nat'l Park Service site:

Is this a memorial or a mosque? All I see is a cresent and a star. We are fighting a legal war in San Diego to keep a cross on a war memorial and you are planning on building an enormous Islamic symbol to honor Americans slain by Islamic radicals. Are you people that dense? Can you not see what you are doing? Build an oblisek, a cenotaph, a brass plaque on a chain, anything but an oblique memorial that somehow honors the murderers of 9/11 and not their victims.

Go back to the drawing board, gentlemen.

If they prevail and build the damn thing, will the ACLU sue for having a religious symbol on public land?

You guys should be absolutely ashamed to show your face let alone go public. Despite legitimate public outcry regarding your crescent memorial to the people aboard Flight 93 slaughtered mercilessly by Islamist Fundamentalist Terrorists - you did not change 1 thing.

Your arrogance and self importance is ASTONISHING and you deserve any and all grief and anger you recieve over this.

It is not your place to inject your PC thought process on anyone nor is it "racist" to want a simple memorial built to the people murdered without an injection of your 1984 PC thought painted in.

You arrogance is beyond insensitive or disgusting it is beyond words.

Mike Narigizan

Who is paying for this crap. Please don't tell me we are.

Here was my submission:

So...you think the best way to memorialize the crash is to put a giant Red Crescent on the site?

The terrorists wanted to leave their mark on America with this act, and now you're going to help them. Not to mention that you're going to put the sacred symbol of one religion up when you're bent for leather to tear down the symbols of mine.

Not with my tax dollars, bucko. I'll sue first.

My question is...WHERE IS THE ACLU?! There is an OBVIOUS ENDORSEMENT OF A RELIGION here!

#90 javems

Who is paying for this crap. Please don't tell me we are.

The Saudis, apparently.

Sent them my 2 cents

This memorial will always be an embarrasment to America and a humilitaion of the victims until every trace of anything that resembles a red crecent is removed.

Also sent a follow up message asking if the names and addresses were being forwarded directly to CAIR.

Sent my opinion.

Really bad design.

Crap!

What was it in my scathing letter they missed the first time?

Did they think everybody would forget? What about all of the other GREAT ideas?!?

A memorial.

To whom?

Would you memorialize the victims of Nazi concentration camps with a swastika?

Why then would you memorialize the victims of men who acted out of a bizarre sense of islamic religious conviction with a symbol of the islamic faith? Are you too obtuse to see the implications of your choice for this memorial?

Many others have asked this question, and most likely many of them have asked it more eloquently than I, but the question remains unanswered. Do you believe that these United States citizens, these sons and daughters of America, who died on that flight deserve a true memorial to their bravery and sacrifice? Do you believe that you are right to demean the victims by making their memorial a symbol of islam? You must know that the terrorists who killed the passengers and crew aboard flight 93, not to mention thousands others on that same day, were led to this horrific act by some deranged religious conviction.

And now you seek to memorialize this religion, the terrorists who murdered the innocent passengers and crew, and along with them the deranged convictions that drove the terrorists.

Why?

Answer that question. Stand up before your critics and answer that question.

And when you fail to answer that question, ask yourself this question:

Is is right to use an islamic symbol in this memorial?

To your rational critics, the answer to that question is clear.

This is absolutely dispicable. Rest assured I left a long tirade at thier site, not that I think they care. I also proudly left my name, and other information, if somebody wants to mess with me, then to quote my favorite Pesident,"Bring it on".

I left a comment. That Islamic crescent design is a travesty!

Here is what I posted At the Park Services sight.

This is the most pathetic design you could have approved. Not suprised this came out of Los Angeles.
The only question is "Will you have a burkha wearing policy for women visitors?"

Just sent my letter in. Now sending everyone on my e-mail list the links. I hope and pray this gets squashed.

My comment:

The "bowl" is an artificial construct on the terrain. Why, then, choose a circle? Why not, for example, choose a five-pointed star (as found on the U.S. flag and on a wide range of official U.S. seals and logos)?

A five-pointed star with its apex becoming the gateway to Sacred Ground would certainly avoid the controversy and potential offense of a "red crescent" design.

And that line that is two degrees off Mecca goes STRAIGHT THROUGH FRANCE!

A demonic deconstruction of hidden menace

Let's roll!

Whre are comments going? I don't see them online.

Right click option (to SaveAs, for a couple PDF docs) is unavailable on the site's home page, but I think you can do so with these links:
Click Here to view the July 2006 project newsletter
[snip]
Click Here for information on the September 11, 2006 Memorial Service

I happily and angrily added my disgust for the design...what is it about the Islamonazis that attracts these "artists" so?

#104 Roger 7/11/2006 04:08PM PDT

Whre are comments going? I don't see them online.

just waiting it out with cosmetic (if that) changes, attempting to intimidate those who will comment against, not publically showing comments... hmmm...

I wonder if this is all planned out?

Just like the rest of us, I sent in my thoughts, and vote to trash the design.

If you go to the "Keep me Informed" link,
you find this wonderful example of government attention to detail

By MAIL: If you would like to recive your newsletters by mail, be sure to include your full mailing address.

#107 right wing zephyr

They aren't intimidating anyone. I signed it gladly and will make my statements to them any time they want.

And if CAIR get's a look at the list ... hehehe -2nd amendment. Love.It.

Charles, I posted an excerpt of your post on FreeRepublic...

I am not so sure that we are being heard at all. Has anyone read the draft document? I looked at the Draft General Management plan/ Envriomental Impact Statement and found this - All comments will become part of the public record and substantive comments will be addressed in the final GMP/EIS. Substantive comments are considered to be those that focus on the technical accuracy of the information presented in the document, not the personal opinion of the commenter

My page is still there, with links to Zombietime

I'm not surprised at this at all.

#111 equipax

Technically, it looks like a f*cking crescent.

Of course, its worse than you think.

From [Link: www.flight93memorialproject.com...] we read

"All comments will become part of the public record and substantive comments will be addressed in the Final GMP/EIS. Substantive comments are considered to be those that focus on the technical accuracy of the information presented in the document, not the personal opinion of the commenter.

- Is the information presented in the Draft GMP/EIS correct?

- Is there information that is missing that should be included in the Final GMP/EIS in order for the agency to make a better informed decision?

- Does the Draft GMP/EIS fully evaluate the potential effects of the proposed action?

- Has the Draft GMP/EIS considered all applicable laws affecting the site's resources?

Agencies are requested to focus their comments on their jurisdiction by law or special expertise with respect to the agency’s mission, related program experience, or the potential environmental impact of the proposed action or alternatives presented in the Draft GMP/EIS.

A public open house and meeting on the draft document will be held on July 20, 2006, at the Shanksville Stonycreek School, Shanksville, PA, between 7:00pm and 9:00pm. Written and oral comments relating to the material presented in the document will be received. Please contact the Flight 93 National Memorial office at 814-443-4557 for more information."

Which means, "we have made up our mind, and we are going to honor the islamic terrorists who perpetrated this horrific crime, and ignore the families of those they killed."

Please, if you can go enmasse to this meeting, and make your displeasure known, it would be a step in the right direction. I want to see the appropriate memorial placed at that site. An islamic cresent and star pointing towards mecca is possibly the least appropriate symbol that could be selected.

81 Big L

I'll bet that the WTC memorial will include provisions for a prayer area or rooms and the only one that will be funded and built will be the mosque one. Just watch and see.

Thank you. You have restored my faith in PC liberals.

#111 equipax, yes. I started looking at it in that perspective. Thinking how to write...

Here's the comment I left for these Dhimmi Bastards:

The American passengers of Flight 93 were our first line of defense. They were the first element of our society to return fire in the Global War on Islamist Terrorists. This inappropriate memorial would better serve the passive victims of a bridge collapse or a terrible traffic accident. The National Park Service, Paul Murdoch et al, and the Design Competition jurists have FAILED in their duty to the honor the memories of these American heroes.

I was one among many who politely demanded change when our opinions were last solicited something like a year ago. You have delivered us only words, and the design remains unchanged. This miserable design is an affront to the very values you patronizingly mention in the doggerel commissioned to describe this memorial. The smug superiority of the artistically-inclined is the chief feature visible in this design and I promise you that this memorial will not remain long in its current form.

The design WILL be changed.

Haakon B. Dahl

If they will not pay attention to Americans through their system, they will pay attention to us through our system, which apparently must oppose theirs. America vs. the Islamist sympathizers in our midst.

Hillbilly Geek (#112),

I said it before. And Again. Well done.

That makes it damn obvious what the "intent" of the memorial is.

Have the Saudis bribed that many people already?

You better believe it!

#113 m -

I agree completely. As Asheri's mother said,another angel was need to protect Israel, we had the angels of Flight 93 to protect all of us.

The heros on Flight 93 made every effort at resistance. This memorial, which is the world's largest mosque, is a triumphalist celebration of the ideology that sparked the terrorist attack.

The message it is sending is that the terrorists' ideology has the last laugh. This is not an appropriate design for a memorial to those heros who resisted.

#120 equipax

Don't worry, I didn't word it like that ^ in my letter :)

#105 (me)
Thot I'd swapped URLs for two of the links. But no. The descriptions appear to be wrong on the website. The last link (2nd Click here) is actually about a 28 June 2006 memorial sevice. Information on the September 11, 2006 Memorial Service is actually in the July 2006 project newsletter No. 5 (1st Click here).

Just got my email out lets see how some of my LLL family and buds reply to me.

Hiya {m} long time no type ;-)

{Fraxinus}! Whassup my friend?

Luckily I don't have any lll family, but I have a very good friend that's lost his mind. He's even po'd about this memorial.

Hello Everyone,

I've sent in my comments to the NPS about changes to the MEMORIAL for Flight 93.

Everyone else should also..but keep it civil!

Regards to all, Lightspede

Charles,

Thanks for posting this update. I just got my rather scathing response off to the design committee. I would not have known of this vile insult if you hadn't posted it. Thank you.

I wish "Cato" would get another nick if he's going to be continually getting his Latin wrong, posting phone numbers, &c.

Looks like the Pennsylvania memorial site will be a great taxpayer-funded monument - to the ROP and the bastards that hijacked that aircraft and killed all those innocent AMERICANS!

Doesn't anybody in power anywhere get it? Do they really think that we, the people, are that stupid? Why isn't Santorum doing something here - it's HIS district, right? You'd think...well, you'd think he'd have a brain, grow some balls, and come out publically against this disgraceful design. Between that and the "museum" that is goiing to be part of the WTC memorial, with a sizeable portion of it kissing the ROP's money-filled ass; what the f**k is going on here?

I get so disgusted, embarrassed, and disjointed over our gob'mint's utter lack of pro-America action, our media's pro-[bigoted word] stance, and the apparent concurrence of close to half of the American population (the legal citizens) to our nation's rushing headlong to collective culural and national suicide, all I can do is weep for our future...it's time to stand up and take the country back...God help us all...

My posting to the design committee:

Hello, NPS...anybody home?
How in the heck have you managed to confront the American people with the very real possibility that an islamic crescent, sacred symbol of the enemy, will end up as the CENTRAL DESIGN of the United 93 Memorial. On some of the most hallowed ground in the United States! If you think this abomination will be allowed to stand, you are severely underestimating the righteous anger of the American people. Our wounds from September 11 are still bleeding and raw...how DARE you allow leftist political agendas to exploit this monument. At this time, it even doesn't matter WHY this idiocy has been allowed to reach this point, all that matters is that it CANNOT be allowed to continue. Come on, NPS, you are the representatives of the American people; have you no sense of shame over there? Where is the vision? Where is the leadership? Who has the courage to make the tough, but correct calls over there?
Don't think you can hunker down and ride this out; there are too many of us who are aware of whatis going on and are committed to fighting this via every available information channel. There is no place to hide in the age of the internet.
By the way, I don't like the disclaimer in your privacy statement, "you should be aware that the National Park Service may still be required to disclose your name and address pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act." Folks, I do NOT want my contact information made available to any head chopping jihadi cells that happen to have the knowledge to use the FOIA against us. This wouldn't be the first time the enemy has used our own tools against us.

#122 m

Nothing would give me more pleasure than to scream that very sentiment at the people trying to perpetrate this abomination,but I fear the only way to be heard is for alot of little people to say "It's still a F-in crescent" to the one big someone that can in turn say that to the NPS and get it changed.

m

the boy's bed time is coming up. it's time for that first smoke off the day. when you said you went for one on the DDT i was wishing i was right w/ ya.

#114 Kafir:

That gives me a sinking feeling. So the only comments they're going to regard as substantive will be on the accuracy of the environmental impact study, or of the true cost of construction, or something. The only way this thing will get stopped will be either through a massive media blitz (from the MSM? Don't hold your breath) or if some enviro-whacko can prove that the damn thing will annoy the tree squirrels, or irritate the purple crested ninnyhammer.

JWM

#132 fraxinus americana

First smoke? This late?! My husband does that. He doesn't smoke unless he drinks.

wth? I wish I could do that. :(

/no comments from the peanut gallery~ i can and i will- yeah yeah ;-)

Does any 1 know what happened in Chicago?

heard on the radio smoke pouring from subway tunnels.

M i coulda had one when they both napped but just forgot. everyone says i should quit, but nobody likes a quitter.

Fraxinus~ NYNana posted a link earlier.

I left a note to the NPS. My name and info, too. Let 'em come discuss it in person.

Mcgyver, out

#136 fraxinus americana

HAHAHAHAHA! As Dubs says~ quitters never win!

:D

#135

Phew looks like just a derailment.

#140 How sad is that just a derailment peoples commute interupted, some sent to the hospital and I'm happy... well happy that a militant terrorist did'nt get through

#141 fraxinus americana

I know. Sad but relieved.

Headed for dinner~ Have a great evening {Fraxinus}!

left my comments too- similar to many other on the thread.

They got my info, should they decide to use it and come over for a visit, I will get medieval on their asses, rest assured.

Anything we can do here locally near where the Murdoch offices are located? I cannot make it out to PA...

My comments to them

I'm sorry ... what?

I can't believe my eyes! Myself and everyone i know thought this "Crescent of embrace" idea was the most horrific, laughable, and ironic idea of a memorial we ever heard of. We all emailed you people to express our disgust, and you just brush us off?

Did you honestly think that you could keep this under the radar for a couple of months and it would go away?

Well let me restate my concerns:

This memorial needs to focus on the victims, to have ANY kind of recognition of the hijackers is APPAULING and HORRIFIC! There are no excuses for what they did, and they should not be immortalized on a field where so many free men and women died at the hands of MURDERERS!

To bring ANY kind of understanding of islam or add some sort of educational point to the memorial is SHAMEFUL and DEVALUES the loss we all felt when these brave souls fought for their lives.

Would you think it would be appropriate to have a statue of Hitler at Dachau? Maybe a ribboned photograph of Richard Ramirez on the tombstones of his victims? GIVE ME A BREAK!

I hope and pray that you people will understand what a SLAP IN THE FACE this memorial will be to us who actually REMEMBER 9/11 if you leave it as is.

Thank you sincerely,

Me

{m} buh bye

Mcgyver (#138),

Got that stuff in the mail for ya (finally), you should get it in the next couple of days.

Besides the obvious crescent, the bisector line, and the 40 glass blocks plus three, I've often had real questions about the fact that there are five areas of experience:

The Entry Portal
The memorial groves
Wetlands
Sacred Ground
Western Overlook

and the Tower of Voices at the entrance seems questionable since, as I have seen written, Islam forbids bells or other intruments from their minarets, but allow only voices. Even if noises beside voices are not forbidden, I have still seen much bragging about the importance of it being a voice from the tower rather than a bell or horn.

It is not the mere ringing of the bell or the meaningless blowing of horns. This is an appeal from an individual soul to the soul of humanity to turn to Allah, to follow the lead of Mohammed as His Messenger, and to come to partake of the spiritual feast for the progress and the nourishment of the soul. The call of the Muezzin is appealing in a great degree than the ringing of the deepest toned bell or the most costly and elaborate system of chimes.

#145 so.cal.swede

I wish I had a way w/ words like you.

#91 FearlessMinky

ACLU != American Civil Liberties Union
ACLU = Anti Christian Lawyers United

The ACLU has, when the opportunity presented itself, gone out of its way to bash Christian, but not other religious symbols.

The ACLU is a bigoted organization, much like the KKK. In fact, wasn't the ACLU founded by Marxists?

I added my name and polite but BLUNT comments to their dead-end, never-to-be-read online answering machine, but I'm not holding my breath.

"Whether you like it or not, we'll lie, dissemble, prevaricate, obfuscate and deceive until we have OUR way with the Islamic holy symbol, you ignorant "Amrikka"-lover! Nyah-nyah! "

We can send in all the comments we want, but they will be ignored. All we see and say here is ignored. It's over, we've lost.

Make it a duplicate of the Kaba, and put a statue of porky pig at the center.

Better yet, a (Ayn Rand reference ahead)statue of Dominique Francon.

OTOH;

I would have no problem with the public restrooms being housed in a crescent-shaped building.

Come to think of it, the crescent shape would also lend itself to a prison building, kind of "panopticon", only less so, berhaps at Gitmo?

Also, a pigsty, with a gate across the open end.

Many many uses for a crescent-shaped building/structure...but not as a memorial to people who lost their lives defeating Islamist terrorists

Just Sayin'

#90 javems

"Who is paying for this crap. Please don't tell me we are."

Javems, I have some bad news for you. Decent Americans being forced to pay for an homage to Islam is the point. Remember the WTC Memorial, the hateful anti-American house of horrors, the 9/11 Museum? The anti-American jackasses who were trying to shove it up our @$$es admitted that getting U.S. to pay for and anti-American memorial on sacred ground was the point.

I can be nastier and more truthful here.

I was polite to the brain-dead at the NPS.

"If you build it, They will come, and will tear it down brick by fucking brick and burn the ground you built it on."

Gee I loved that movie!

Besides, the whole damn thing is sad.

This memorial shouldn't be melancholy.

It should be triumphant!

I've updated my page with side by side screen caps from the old powerpoint presentation and their newest newsletter

One might also note that a 'bowl' design brings to mind a toilet bowl. It has the undertone of crapping on the site.

Well, then I'll hafta book a ticket to eastern Pennsylvania, and buy a baseball bat, even though I turn 60 this year, my young American heart cannot STAND the thought of RAPING America with this "memorial"...

Paul Murdock is one F'd up dude . . .

[Link: rds.yahoo.com...]

link to Murdocks quote above

I wish I could say I was surprised at this, but I'm not.

I wish I could say that I did more to highlight this story, but I've been focused on the Ground Zero dealings.

As for who will be paying for this memorial, the answer is if it comes from federal funds, that means that every taxpayer is putting coinage towards it.

I don't think people quite understand either that there's a problem with the design or what the design represents in/to Islam. And the designers are capitalizing on that lack of knowledge to push a design that would, under proper scrutiny, be substantially altered.

I think we should rent some Caterpillar trackers and volunteer to help with the construction of the memorial.

from errortheory.blogspot.com, the link provided...

The full crescent gives the direction to Mecca. The rear crescent gives the direction to the target that the terrorists were trying to destroy. The full crescent is a mosque element (one of many). The rear crescent is a terrorist-memorializing element (one of many).

Those reading this who don't normally adhere to the views proferred here, take note of the very directly jihadist-loving tact deliberately one of the main points of this uhhhHHm, 'art'.

/spit

I know I'm wasting my time, but I sent my comment:

"You should all be ashamed of yourselves! This obvious tribute to the vile religion of hate that motivated those cowards who attacked America on 9/11 sickens me. If you want to build a tribute to islam, put it in your backyard, not in a National Memorial. I'll bet it really angers all you involved in this crescent design, but this is still a Judeo-Christian country and we will not kowtow to islamic terrorists and those such as yourselves who wish to appease them. How dare you. P.S. Is this little disclaimer below meant to frighten me off? How pathetic..."

#109 m 7/11/2006 04:22PM PDT

#107 right wing zephyr

They aren't intimidating anyone. I signed it gladly and will make my statements to them any time they want.

And if CAIR get's a look at the list ... hehehe -2nd amendment. Love.It.

Right on. As I'm sure many before and after me will do, I always let 'em know and don't care if they know who I am.

I said they're attempting to intimidate.

How many surviving family members of Flight 93 are aware of the controversy? What percentage of American's are aware of Murdochs sick sense of "healing"?

My guess is not many.

A full page ad should be placed in a major daily paper to present Alec Rawls deconstruction of this intentional insult to the flight 93 memorial design.

I would contribute to a fund for this purpose.

We should not stand silent while utterly despicable PC advocates construct the largest Islamic center (Islam's umpteenth holiest site)on the ground soaked with the blood of American heros. . . all in the name of 'healing'.

Here's what I sent:

What a disgusting excuse for a memorial.

It is more like a shrine to Islam-the very religion that inspired the murders.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves. You have insulted the memory of all of those who lost their lives. I can't even think of a more pathetic 'memorial'.

Of all the shapes in the whole world-you chose a crescent? It's hard to imagine anything more stupid or submissive to Islam.

The NPS is only concerned about technical criticisms, not our outrage. If we want the design changed write and call your Congressman and Senators. Rush, Hannity, and O'Reilly could also stir the pot and publicise the travesty.

The likelihood of civil war in the US is becoming more apparent to me with each passing day.

Strongly suggest people arm themselves, train themselves, and be prepared for serious violence. The reckoning with the Left has been a long time coming, and there will be no sanctuary.

Sent this:

Perhaps a large green Koran should be placed in the very middle, thus completing this dhimmi design? A minaret placed on the top of The Tower of Voices would also be a very appropriate gesture, showing that Americans understand that Islam is a religion of peace as demonstrated by the carnage just today in India. In fact, there should be a recording that loops over and over booming "Allahu Akbar" coming from the Tower of Voices. We must make the Muslim world understand that we shall one day not offer any resistance whatsoever as they shove their collective 7th century cock up our well greased ass.

It's very easy to provide comments to the memorial organizers and to ask them to inform you of progress or changes in the memorial. If you do not, then do not complain about a lack of information regarding this important memorial to honor the brave soul who sacrificed themselves on Flight 93.

My comments, for what their worth are:
"Please have the Crescent shape removed from the proposed memorial design. This memorial should be meant to commemorate the brave souls who prevented flight 93 from crashing into a governmental building in Washington, DC. Their sacrifice should not be turned into a multicultural denial of their bravery but needs to, instead, honor their bravery. If religious symbols must be placed into the memorial design, use the Cross of Jesus and the Star of David, not the crescent moon symbol of their killers."

"My $0.02:

I'm writing in support of Alternative One: No Action.

I'd like to point out that the Appendix is materially incomplete. There is a key letter from Secretary Norton, directing a partial redesign to remove highly offensive Islamic symbology.

Further, Paul Murdoch is materially out of compliance with that directive, as no major alterations have been made.

A summary of his noncompliance can be found here:

And here:

And here:

Quite effectively here:

Reaction pretty effectively summarized here:

Other alternatives can be found here:

Again, NO major change has been made. Mr. Murdoch is out of compliance with his directive. Therefore, the project cannot go forward, as designed.

The Management Plan is incomplete, because it doesn't take into account lengthy delays that are certain to to be generated by legal and Congressional challenges to this fundamentally flawed, deeply offensive design.

The review meeting, scheduled for July 20th, could turn into a raucous affair, indeed."

Unquote.
Update: the NPS's submission form doesn't allow linkies, such as Charles'.

Have not taken time to read all comments. Here is my email to the memorial.org:

"Add one more voice to the chorus that says the crescent design of this memorial is a vile, contemptable slap in the face to those who died as heros in that field.

"Do not even TRY to tell me you are unaware of the symbolism of that crescent. You architects and artists are ALL ABOUT "nuance" and "symbolism."

"Do not even try to tell me you are unaware that this design is actually a "mihrab" -- the central feature that every mosque is built around.

"I am furious that you have defended this design. I am even more furious that you evidently think we, the public, are so stupid we would not notice.

Vile.
Contemptable.
Insulting.

(end quote)

Okay, now I'll go back and read all the comments.

Songdog out.

I received this on June 22:

Dear Supporter,

Yesterday we sent you an email letting you know that the LMDC public comment period on the new memorial design has begun.

If you have not already done so, we ask that you visit [Link: www.renewnyc.com...] and leave your thoughts and feelings regarding the new design.

You can find the official position statement of the Coalition of 9/11 Families at [Link: takebackthememorial.org...]

In addition, please take a moment to record your opinion in our newest online poll question.

The names on the 9/11 memorial at Ground Zero should be: Listed by Affiliation OR Listed Randomly

On the question of the victims' names, the Coalition of 9/11 Families says the following:

The names of the victims must not be listed in random order as currently proposed. This method fails to tell the story of 9-11 and belies the history of the day. Victims’ names should be listed by affiliation as outlined in the proposal submitted by the family groups on behalf of the majority of families.

Please visit [Link: www.takebackthememorial.org...] to record your vote now.

Thank you for your continued and steadfast support.

Sincerely,

Take Back the Memorial

It might be worthwhile also to contact Chris Sullivan...

WASHINGTON, Feb. 18 /PRNewswire/ -- The Families of Flight 93 today announced the appointment of Outback Steakhouse Board Chairman Chris T. Sullivan as national chairman of a $30 million fundraising campaign for the Flight 93 Memorial in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. Mr. Sullivan responded to the appointment by announcing his commitment of $2 million, the largest private-sector gift made to the project to date. ...

Outback Steakhouse Chairman Appointed as Flight 93 Memorial National Campaign Chairman
Sullivan Announces $2 Million Commitment

Contact information for Mr. Sullivan is here:
[Link: www.communicationsmgr.com...]

Just to enter it into the record, here's the National Park Service's GM/EIS plan link, whence comments can be made.

The whole "memorial" design is a kick in the teeth to every American, and every single innocent victim of the Muslim war/terror machine.

Islam is a religion firmly entrenched in the Stone Age of the Seventh Century, and they are trying to take the rest of us headlong into their version of Hell. Death over life.

Try again...
Outback Steakhouse Chairman Appointed as Flight 93 Memorial National Campaign Chairman
Sullivan Announces $2 Million Commitment

Here was my comment:

"Your monument design is an Islamic crescent, which, with other Islamic iconic elements incorporated into the design, is a clear Muslim triumphalist monument celebrating the murder of over 3,000 US citizens and guests of this nation on September 11, 2001.

Your entire commision that planned and implemented this outrage is a disgrace to the nation and to the memories of the victims of Flight 93 that was brought down by the Islamic murderers on that flight.

I intend to contact all politicians and others that may bear on completion of this project to see that it is brought to an immediate halt."

How about a new title: "Crescent of decapitation"?

Folks,

Put OutBack Steakhouse on your boycott list and let Sullivan know it.

Beforegoing off the deep end here, be sure to check Sissy Willis' links in comment 103

This one, in particular, links to a series of articles she wrote the first time this controversy arose.

In particular, scroll down to the post where she compares interpreting the memorial as a jihadist crescent to the jihadists themselves mistaking the Burger King ice cream cone packaging for the name of Allah.

Also see, "Islam does not own the crescent moon".

Sissy's no dhimmi. She's not in any way claiming that the the UA93 passengers don't deserve praise or recognition. Her objections are a call for clearsighted reason, not knee-jerk reaction.

Two objections I do agree with:

If there's any chance that the jihadists themselves will see this as their memorial, it must be scrapped. Does anyone have any evidence that they do?

Also, this design has already stirred up so many bad feelings that it may no longer be suitable, regardless of its merits. Again, though, see Sissy's post on the Vietnam memorial.

Pennsylvania Lizards. Can you put pressure on Rendell to stop this disgrace? I know he is moonbat and even had his Lt. Governor out harrassing the families of deceased Gulf War vets at their funerals, but he has to understand politics and this one could be uncomfortable for him.

Refugee 1, wake up and smell the coffee. Look at Murdoch's submission of the 9/11 memorial at the WTC. Believe it or not, it contained a "Hall of Celebration". The fucker is jamming his pro-Jihadi political beliefs into the eye of America and having fun and profiting from it. This is a monument to Islam -- pure and simple.

I left my opinion!

Twilight zone. I'm in an episode of the Twilight zone. Yep, thats it.

As another mentioned, Bill O'Reilly ...and Santorum from Pennsylvania should be contacted.
Most people are totally unaware of what's going on...like me before I read LGF tonight.

I registered my objection too. Let's hope that this murdope asshat gets tossed off this project, otherwise we'll have to get the boys together one evening and fix it this abomination ourselves. Anyone got a dozer? :)

I just sent my comments...and I also emailed Senator Santorum!

I just e-mailed Bill O'Reilly and my Senator - John McCain.

I say we let bygones be bygones. It was all just a big misunderstanding anyway. Had we communicated with interfaith dialogue a little better, none of this would have ever happened.

I blame Bush, really. It's all his fault. Let's just give up and go home.

For those of you wishing to take it out on Chris Sullivan of Outback Steakhouse, who is bankrolling this outrage, go to their website. Beyond Outback, they own about 10 other restaurant chains, so you have quite a menu of stores to boycott. All of them are in competitive business lines so it's not like you won't be able to eat at other places that don't build monuments to Islamic murderers.

Refugee1

I appreciate your tone, and am therefore moderating mine accordingly. The issue with the Vietnam Memorial was an aesthetic one at heart. In no way did the grouping dishonor the memories of the fallen, elevate the ideology of their killers, or twist the meaning of the memorial away from its commissioned purpose. It is always good to hear that a person is capable of changing opinions.
That said, it has NO BEARING on the current desecration of what is a battlefield memorial to the Americans who died resisting the onslaught of Islamist Conquest.
I read "Sissy's" little diatribe, and found it wanting. Who believes that that Mr. Murdoch et al are less attuned to the importance of symbols and symbolism in public monuments than the average bloggger? Even if, indeed ESPECIALLY IF Murdoch were completely innocent of dhimmi collaboration, he would swiftly change the design when it was pointed out that the whole thing appears as a paean to Islamic murderers when viewed symbolically. How else should one view a memorial?
So if Sissy doesn't see it, it is because she is looking at it as lines on paper, signifying nothing at all, rather than a memorial to the Americans killed at that site. Her inability or unwillingness to see this as it is does not change its nature. And its nature is pro-Islamist.

I'm pretty sure that we're taking offense at nothing, really. If the Arab world saw us planting a memorial cross on their sacred ground, I'm sure they would be way more culturally tolerant than us barbaric and imperialist westerners. You guys need to chill out and let reason prevail, just like they do.

Move along please.

So as the ACLU removes decades-old crosses from public lands in a country that was founded on Judao-Christian principles, they are installing muslim symbols.

By the way, the number of trees planted includes one for every PERSON on Flight 93...that's right, terrorists included.

Th eonly way to stop this, is for everyone in Pennsylvania to march on that site, demanding a new designer.

Can someone point me to depictions of the chosen actual design?

I cannot seem to find them on the website, which certainly raises my interest.

Please link directly to a depiction of the design, I've been all over that website and haven't found it.

Banager,

Go fuck yourself, you troll.

I wrote to them:

Under no circumstances should the memorial look Islamic at all. Even a slight unintentional, superficial appearance to anything Islamic is an insult to the men, woman, and children who died fighting Islamic terror. For GODs sake, change the design. A crescent? That’s like flying a Japanese flag at the Arizona memorial or a confederate flag at Lincoln’s’ home in Springfield. If the current plan is gone ahead with the thoughts of those who visit will always be filled to some degree with questions about the design rather than completely with remembrance of those fallen heroes.

Change the design.

Here is my $0.02 on the subject:

What are you thinking - that memorial is a discrace to the AMERICANS that fought back on Flight 93. What a disgrace to TOdd Beamer and the other victims that fought back with their bare hands against the unholy terrorists and stopped them from killing hundreds, if not thousands more people on 9/11. They are the HEROES of 9/11, along with those that fought and died on that day - and you settle for the "Crescent of Embrace". Stop being PC and "do the right thing" - honor those that fought and died for their families, friends and fellow Americans on that day.

Farking Idiots...stop being PC and sucking up to the islamofacists...

Uh...what would it take to submit a losing entry? The "box-cutter of salutation?" "The slit throat of submission?" How openly pro-terrorist can it get? What does it take to offend? Hey, I know! What about an eagle being sodomized by a guy in a turban! Or, a tattered asbestos American flag with brown rings and streaks on it being perputually burned? No one would get the symbolism, we're all idiots.

#185 refugee1 -

Thanks for the link (the first one is broken, but the second is correct). It helped me back off on the rage-o-meter and think about the big picture for a moment. I encourage others to take a look if you haven't.

They got my opinion. Funny, it was so similiar to the above comments.

I also emailed O'Reilly at - oreilly@foxnews.com

If enough folks do the same, maybe he'll pick up on it and and do a segment.

#200,

really grumpy big dog johnson:

Banager,

Go fuck yourself, you troll.

I'm not really sure how I should reply to that.

197 Banagor

R U a moslem? Hippie? a commie? a fool? or simply full of shit and looking to piss of your fellow travelers?

I think it's probably been over three years since I directly insulted somebody here.

I don't think anyone wants me to start again either.

I was being sarcastic. Please learn to read without relying on sarcasm tags. Writers, before the web was around, actually used to write sarcasm without having to tell others that it was actually...sarcasm. They were under the impression that most people could, and would, pick up on the fact that it was - if they knew how to read properly.

Those who didn't pick up on it were ridiculed as being simple-minded and told to go back to school.

I hope that I'm making myself clear. Most people who have been here a few years know me, and I think that they know exactly what I'm like when I post. They've read my blog, Charles has linked to my blog, and I don't appreciate being taken for a moonbat. I'm not, and I feel it unnecessary for me to have to prove that I am not.

Banagor, your reply is not required.

If you believe in defending your pathetic excuses for those who chop heads, why don't you be so kind as to provide an actual link to the current memorial design, since we are overreacting to what normal Muslims would consider no matter.

Trolling is not nice, but then again, it takes a little bit of experience with trolls to identify them. So prove that you are not a troll. Since you are so convinced that my concern is trivial, then point me by way of a link to the memorial design.

I hope that you do understand that if the memorial glorifies Islam it will be destroyed in about 5-4-3-2-1 seconds?

Nah, I didn't think so. So where did you study, Banagor - the great state of Connecticut?

(BTW, don't think you can cozy to me, because I'm nobody's fool. You may think you know something, but to me, you are just the average around here. I've dealt with your like on endless occasions, and surprise! I've never lost.)

Banagore...He obviously didn't read your second post either!

#210,

He also obviously didn't click on my profile to check before spouting off:

Banagor:

Registered lizardoid since: 06/15/04 01:59:55 PM

No. of comments posted (since July 26, 2004): 488

Web site URL: [Link: www.nerra.com...]

It's not that hard. It's the little green football icon to the left of my name.

Just happen to be that the plane was flying almost directly 90 degrees towards mecca. Uh huh. Anybody check that out? And, by an amazing coincidence chose a cresent as a symbol. Uh huh. And by another amazing coincidence chose to make that cresent red. Sure. HEY, WHY NOT HAVE A CIRCLE WITH, SAY, 40 DEGREES MISSING? Or would that be too symbolic?... Close it in a little more. Forty missing degrees.

Well, I live in NZ, but I didn't let that stop me making a comment; I just selected a state at random, and put "New Zealand" in parentheses next to my town address.

*Please*, do yourselves a favor and replace Paul Murdoch as designer of the Flight 93 memorial. It's increasingly apparent that he regards it as a point of pride not to compromise on design elements that many find deeply offensive (the Islamic crescent shape, the 44 glass blocks commemorating not only the victims but their murderers). There are many young up-and-coming architects who would leap at the opportunity to design a tasteful, beautiful and appropriate monument to the victims of Flight 93. You can either give a rising star the opportunity of a lifetime, or pay a hack to create something divisive and obnoxious that'll be an ongoing source of controversy and complaints.

I thought about adding another paragraph but decided against it, in case they thought I was personally threatening to come bust up their "monument", as opposed to just pointing out that was damn likely to happen:

Failing that, may I suggest that Paul Murdoch go the whole hog and inscribe passenger names (including the names of the terrorists) on the glass blocks, or include a "Hall of Forgiveness" on the site, in which we'll learn about the terrible injustices of American oligarchic power that drove the poor, disenfranchised terrorists to their desperate act. That way, when the inevitable vandals turn up to "critique" his design, they'll be able to smash something up without seeming disrespectful to the victims' families.

Do I hear a "woops" yet?

BTW, funny you should call me a hippie:

[Link: www.google.com...]

#1 on Google for Hippie Hunting

Also funny that you should call me an islamist apologist:

[Link: www.google.com...]

#1 on Google for Muslim Porn (really pisses them off too, btw - just to let you know. Oh and does it need sarcasm tags?)

He IS "Really grumpy". Comes right out and says so. Give him a break.../beers all around

#215

No, man.

They both insulted me without thinking about what they were saying. I don't appreciate it at all. I'm a terrorist sympathizer's worst frigging nightmare. I've worked hard to get that position. I'm not going to lose it to some dumbass who can't check on somebody's profile before assuming something about them simply because they are far too dense to catch on nuances.

No offense or anything.

If they say sorry, then fine. If not, I'll stay pissed. I hold grudges. It's my nature. It's why I write such famous rants.

#211 Banagor . . .

I'm familiar with your posts and humor because I'm an old lizardoid, but think a bit . . .

Most people skim LGF posts and don't spend much time clicking on footballs, etc. It's much easier to add a "sarc tag" when you're using sarc than to expect various readers to take the time to figure you out.

The internet is a wonderful place, but without body language it's a different place than ordinary writing or ordinary conversation is. One has to adapt to a different medium. I write a lot of things with parentheses, quotation marks, and sarc tags that I would never do in "real life."

What can I tell you? My "real life" involves heavy-duty writing, so I know what I'm writing about. Trust me. Use the /sarc tag.

Banagor gets a pass because of a subtle sarcasm bone about Islamic butchery?

I don't give a freaking damn about your credentials, Banagor. If you cannot state what you truly believe and hide behind the sad cover of pathetic sarcasm, you deserve everything you get from me.

500 comments in a couple of years gets you less than table scraps from me. Cut the shit now. Don't play games with life and death.

Don't admonish people for their harsh reactions to people that are killing hundreds in countless countries around this world every week.

Don't be an ass, and don't defend stupidity. You don't want to admit that you were stupid, you want to prop your credentials.

I feel so honored. No go FOAD.

BTW, where's the link to the image of that memorial design that you are so dead-set for?

Where is it? Or is it that you are masquerading around this joint? You think I'm a pathetic joke, how about I explain the joke to you?

RGBDJ... I used Charles' links, at the begining of the thread, with no problem. When I clicked on the blue words it took me right there, though some cannot because they are using the computer at work.

I just had another take on the crescent design. This came to me as I went out walking. You may disagree, maybe not.

This is probably not what the architect had in mind, but nonetheless-
Maybe a crescent pointing directly toward mecca is exactly what we need.
Given the rash of dumbass 9/11 conspiracy theories I can see the truth getting muddied in the water of popular culture. Idiots already try to cast doubt, and other idiots bellieve them. But the seeds of doubt still gets sown. The television and history books will say "terrorists did it" They will not say "moslems did it" and they certainly will not have the audacity to say "islam did it"
That structure will remind us forever what the evil was (islam), where the evil came from(mecca), what it did (9/11/01), and what it took to stop it.
A wall, a spire, a cross can all lose specific meaning over time. But if this were excavated like Stonhenge some thousands of years in the future, an archeologist might find evidence of crashed plane and an arc pointing to where the damage came from, and conclude that this was not only a reminder, but a warning.

JWM

Also, see post #5

Feeling it may be more effective, my husband and I also left our names when we commented. Our comment to the director and to the NPS:

Dear Mr. Reynolds:

The creation of a "memorial" to the heroes of Flight 93 in the shape of a crescent, the entry of which faces mecca, is a gratuitous insult to their memory and to the memory of all who died at the hands of the terrorists on 9/11. We urge you to change this design to one that does not honor the terrorists.

Following is a copy of our comment to the National Park Service concerning the proposed "memorial":

Has the National Park Service considered the most likely effect of building a "memorial" that is nothing more than a mosque? Instead of being a place to honor our dead heroes, it will become a gathering place for Islamic radicals to celebrate the suicide killers in what they see as one victory in the jihad against us. Each September 11, instead of seeing people giving prayerful thanks for those Americans who died to save other Americans, we can look forward to pictures of islamists as they face into the crescent (the mihrab) toward mecca giving thanks for the terrorists who died to kill Americans. How can you possibly be even considering this disastrous design? Please start over and build a Memorial that honors our dead and not their killers.

#218 really grumpy . . .

BTW, I really enjoy your posts, and would have told you so before except that I often start threads after hundred of posts and don't expect the person being complimented to read my compliments.

Anyway, I forgot what I admired about one of your recent posts and am too lazy to check it out via Charles's amazing advanced search engine. It's late, and I plead sleepiness.

But...don't let Banagor get you down. I love your posts. You have a real way with words.

/This sounds like a love letter, but take it as a fan letter. You are a mini Mark Steyn.

//To the world . . . the internet requires special writing formats. Keep your posts short, to the point, and use lots of sarc tags and winkies.

swamprat, go ahead and post the link here.

I really want to see the depiction of that memorial, so do me at least that one favor.

I'll look below for your reply.

RGBDJ I suck at linking. I've done two and one worked. Just look at post 5 and click on the word "expose"(left click) Also on the thread description the words islam and alex. If this does not work , let me know, and I will attempt to link.

ok while you try that i will try to do a linky

Promethea

And I enjoy your own immensely. I know that I get severely irate around here, and on alarmingly regular occasions. But I'm not a head chopper, I'm a life-affirmer.

And the diffence is wider than the Grand Canyon. Whenever anyone uses unnuanced discussion about the deaths of innocents, or downplays terror because of the "predominant nature" of peace in Islam, I am quite easy to blow a gasket, and I mean big time.

I don't want anyone I know or associate with to even suggest sarcastically that we radically overreact to those "peaceful people".

You and I know my own posting history regarding the minimization of the threat that western societies face from Islamic fascism, and I am not going to back down from my belligerence in preference for a "wine bar" laid-back presence.

It just isn't me. I won't stand for stupidity or (and especially) hard-set opinions that we are all raging the teapot. Yes, it doesn't take all that much to get me extremely angry, but you and I know the one essential truth that I should not have to repeat.

I am not one of them.

Wow,

You're telling him not to let me get him down?

He's the one who insulted me. It wasn't the other way around. This is ludicrous...

Now he's saying that my "credentials" don't matter? First he calls me a moonbat, and then when I prove that I'm not, he says that it makes no difference and that I should, again, eff off and die?

What the hell?

here

#199 really grumpy big dog johnson

Can someone point me to depictions of the chosen actual design?

I cannot seem to find them on the website, which certainly raises my interest.

Please link directly to a depiction of the design, I've been all over that website and haven't found it.

At lower left of homepage, there's a dynamic menu, Learn More about the MEMORIAL DESIGN>>
Here are direct links to the "elements" of that menu:
Introduction to the Memorial Expression
A Letter from the Designer
The Bowl
Sacred Ground
Entrance

Also, in the Introduction page, there is a link to the November 2005 newsletter (PDF file) (to download, RightClick/SaveAs)

Hope that helps; whether any of it is really the current design is an open question.

Banagor . . .

It's not about YOU. If you'll read what I wrote, you'll see that my point was that it's hard to communicate on the internet, and we should all try to be as clear as possible.

I find it interesting they don't post an easily accessible site plan of their "new design".

I am almost speechless. Blood pressure easily 180. Unfortunately I was bit intemperate in my comments on this temple to American Islamic Cultists the left hopes to create. But no profanity. Is any one in charge? Where is that silly Wahabi loving President? Where is Cheney? We know where Rove is. Calling Americans lazy.

All I can find is a tif file of their old design.
Page with links But I've posted a comparison of the new bowl.

#7

I bet they moved a tree a few feet.

The whole designed needs to be scraped and started from the beginning, with better guidelines.

HG

I feel the same way. The fact that they do not feature the design pretty much tells me that they want to sneak it into our consciousness.

The failed in their super-grand Ground Zero plans, apparently Plan B (from outer space) is to hide the design until it is a done deal.

What they fail to realize is that patriots in this country will not abide a duplicitous memorial about such a serious incident.

Pearl Harbor was really bad, and this was worse. If they think they can ramrod their lunacy down our throats, they are going to be in for a very big surprise.

[Link: nerra.com...]

I've written about this before.

Do my credentials still not matter?

I'm still upset. I can't believe I'm being insulted this way and it's just being given a free pass.

This is insane.

To me, the cresent points away from mecca. And the inverted dome,excuse me, "bowl" completes the symbology of an anti-mosque. A mosque that is upside down and backwards. The moslem equivilent of an inverted cross.

[Link: nerra.com...]

There. Is that clear enough for you, grumpy?

Are you going to say that you're sorry for telling me to eff off - twice? For no apparent reason?

Admit it: you were wrong to spout off on me without checking. It's not that hard. I'll think better of you for it if you do.

Just own up that it was a simple mistake.

238 Banagor

You got your free pass. I read, you were sarc with angry people. They take it out on you. Your real comments on the site mirror mine. An intentional memorial to the terrorists.

Without checking, Banagor?

What a strange statement. Once again, you insist that I examine your "papers" in order to declare you plague-free.

Can you give it a rest now? You aren't doing yourself a whole lot of favors.

I'm not very fond of credentials, and you haven't said a word to analyze your statements that you made earlier, other than to insist that it took a dullard not to recognize that your statements were just a joke.

Let's set sail in another direction. Tell me about what you oppose, because I can't figure out what you actually believe in. Your clever little trivia with the website link was so impressive that I'm calling off the dogs.

No need to worry a corpse. You are in serious trouble and you know it. Otherwise, you wouldn't harangue about my objections, you would defend yourself.

Say goodbye to the old you. I think I'll nap for the evening now. That gives you as many hours as you wish to dedicate to trashing me on this blog.

Go ahead, I'm rash-resistant.

#212 swamprat
Close it in a little more. Forty missing degrees.

That's it! You've just coined the NEW NAME of the MEMORIAL...

'The Forty Missing Degree Memorial'

If "they" go ahead with this thing...then the only recourse is to shove down the throats of any [bigoted word]/Lib the fact that the "crescent" design is really an accusing finger...You people killed them...Here Islam left it's bloody mark...Look who Islam killed on 9/11/2001...When are you people going to kill again in the name of Allah?

Here are some pics of the site as it is today...June 2006

community.webshots.com...] target="_blank">

One more time... Flight 93 Pics

Without checking, Banagor?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Banager,

Go fuck yourself, you troll.

You didn't check that I wasn't a troll.

Registered lizardoid since: 06/15/04 01:59:55 PM

If I was a troll, it would have taken far less time than two full years for Charles to ban me.

Also, my web site is listed in my URL: easy enough to click on and check. It also happens to be linked from my name on every post here. Again: easy enough to check.

What a strange statement. Once again, you insist that I examine your "papers" in order to declare you plague-free.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Trolling is not nice, but then again, it takes a little bit of experience with trolls to identify them. So prove that you are not a troll.

I provided links to my history proving that I am not a troll:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I dare say, I've done more to take down the other side a notch or two than you ever have. What have you done, actually? I don't see anything aside from comments on this site. While nice, it doesn't really help in the overall fight.

I get death threats on my site because I stand up for this fight. Do you? Do you actually have Jihadis threatening you in person? I do. What have you done lately?

Can you give it a rest now? You aren't doing yourself a whole lot of favors.

No. You insulted me here: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

And here: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Both times, telling me to Fuck off, and once to actually die. I demanded that you apologize. I still do.

I'm not very fond of credentials, [...]

Then why ask that I prove that I am not a troll? How else can I prove that I am not a troll other than to show you what I have previously written? Any ideas on that front? I don't have any. Please let me know what else you were thinking of in terms of proof.

[...]and you haven't said a word to analyze your statements that you made earlier, other than to insist that it took a dullard not to recognize that your statements were just a joke.

I said something here: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

What I said:

I was being sarcastic. Please learn to read without relying on sarcasm tags. Writers, before the web was around, actually used to write sarcasm without having to tell others that it was actually...sarcasm. They were under the impression that most people could, and would, pick up on the fact that it was - if they knew how to read properly.

Let's set sail in another direction.

Alright, lets.

Tell me about what you oppose, because I can't figure out what you actually believe in.

I provided links. See above links provided to posts with links, please. I get tired of repeating myself.

Your clever little trivia with the website link was so impressive that I'm calling off the dogs.

I am happy that I have impressed you.

No need to worry a corpse.

This, I truly do not understand at all.

You are in serious trouble and you know it.

Are you threatening me? How, exactly, am I in trouble?

Otherwise, you wouldn't harangue about my objections, you would defend yourself.

I have. Again, see provided links in above.

Say goodbye to the old you.

Threat? Weird statement with no relevance? Drug-induced stupor? You got me stumped here. Please clarify.

Alec Rawls (errortheory) has a really good explanation of the hx of the "memorial", a picture of the original design, schematics showing how this is a mihrab and links to NPS comment site, and others. It's a great explanation. The link (I hope this works):
http://errortheory.blogspot.com/2006/07/comment-pe riod-now-open-for-flight-93.html

BTW does anyone else think the islamic crescent looks a lot like a guillotine? Certainly appropriate for a religion whose name means submit or submission (or so I've read) and whose adherents go around beheading innocent people.

#218RGBDJ:

If you cannot state what you truly believe

Banagor isn't trying to show you his credentials, he's pointing to places where he states what he truly believes, just as you asked:

People who think that putting a red crescent as the memorial is no big deal are out of their frigging minds. What the Hell do you think would have happened if it had been a cross? Even unintentionally? You think the ACLU would have just shut the fuck up about it?

Shut the fuck up, Muslims. Mohammed was a rapist, child molester, murderer, thief, and a liar. And apparently a lot of the Western world is not only waking up to that fact, but they’re laughing in the face of Islam.

His original post was a perfectly crafted bit of sarcasm. You are shooting at a trench-mate, not the enemy.

Dang it, pressed Post instead of Preview.

Clearly, Banagor doesn't need my help. (And I apologize, sir, if I'm speaking out of turn.) Doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the support, though. I can't believe anyone couldn't tell which side he's on from the very start.

#251,

Thanks refugee1. I do appreciate it.

I've been thinking of packing it in lately though. I've had my say, it's been years of fun, and I don't really know how else to say the same thing any longer.

I was going to post that I'm going on vacation for a long, long, while tonight. Then I thought perhaps there's something else to say. So I posted something open-ended on my site.

Then this happened. Pissed me off, it did. Pissed me off so bad that I'm thinking perhaps I should just close shop, end it, and stop for a year or two. I remember emailing back and forth with Allah when he closed up. He and I used to correspond regularly. I remember how he felt back then, and it's how I feel rightnow.

Right now, I'm mad as hell, having some Californian hippie wine, and thinking about finishing off my site for good.

Maybe I'll think about it some more tomorrow, but I'm not pleased. I'm angry. I used to write well when I was angry, but I'm just too pissed off to decide. I didn't post for two weeks on my blog because I just wasn't in the mood. This sort of clinched it for me. If it weren't for the fact that I have people writing to me to start posting again since weeks, I'd have closed up two weeks ago. Now, I'm just thinking that there isn't even honor on our side, and I really don't want to be part of any of it any longer.

Please do as your statement says, create a fitting tribute to the passengers and crew of Flight 93.

The first design, Crescent of Embrace did no such thing. This current design does no such thing.

If you want to hold true to your statement, go with a different design. Otherwise this will not be a memorial fit for the brave men and women that sacrificed their lives for this country. It will be an insult to them, and to the spirit of this country.

posted my 2 cents on their site.

crescent of embrace? circle of embrace? WTF! give me a break. If they wanted to recognize islam in the memorial, then put a plaque up on it saying "this memorial brought to you courtesy of the ROPma".

By my reading of the Sacred Ground stuff, the actual crash site will be a part of the memorial which will NOT BE OPEN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

Offset concrete walls frame a gate, opened only for ceremonies or family visits.
[snip]
The Hemlock Grove and cabins are preserved to provide solitude and shelter to family visitors.

The general public, apparently is to be limited to viewing this sacred ground area thru a horizontal array of glass blocks embedded in a 12 foot high wall --kinda like peering thru a sight glass into a fucking incinerator.

Someone tell me I'm wrong, please.

Why give up? That's what "they" want you to do.

really grumpy big dog johnson

You are way out of line.

Banagor wrote quality sarcasm and you're too stupid to catch it. You hear that? You are too fucking stupid. You who "cannot tolerate stupidity". I didn't feel hostile toward you until your third or fourth attempt to press home your losing streak. Now THAT is stupidity on parade.

Promethea

People who can actually read BOOKS do not reply on body language or tags or little smilies to know sarcasm when they see it. I hate sarc tags--they are a part of the dumbing down process. sarc tags allow us to write shitty little poorly thought out snippets instead of actual ideas. I for one do not frequent areas of the web filled with stream-of-consciousness ramblings, and I greatly appreciate finding well-written commentary. I particularly like sarcasm.
This whole "body language" meme is an instinctive defense reflex of online stupidity. Don't be that girl!

#255

resize:

Because I've said it all. Because I'm tired. Because I don't get paid for this. And because I'm fed up with being angry.

I've also come to the conclusion that shouting online is pretty useless. It feels good sometimes, but it does absolutely no good whatsoever. It pisses off the other side enough for them to have threatened to kill me a few hundred times - including kill my family - and I just don't see why it's worth it anymore.

And anyway, what's there left to say? How many times can you say that you are outraged? How many times can you piss off the other side without repeating yourself? I really hate repetition. In fact, I loathe it. It annoys me to no end. And if I die tomorrow, God forbid, I don't want my legacy to be a whole bunch of rants which a whole section of the world population hates me for. I know that sounds a little pretentious et al, but I've come to the conclusion that I sometimes out to calm down and just shut up and listen to other people scream at each other instead of participate in the shouting match.

Banagore
If anybody has threaten you and/or your family, they become a lot less than human beings, they become scum. They will be always despised by the decent people of the world.
Be careful, anyway; but know that untold millions of people abhor that kind of behavior and know that people who act that way deserve repudiation, scorn, derision. And a probe by the authorities if it comes down to it. Hold on strong and may God always bless you and your dear ones.

Note to self after deleting everything I just wrote:
Sometimes, it's important to keep thoughts to yourself so they can't use it against you in court.

...I'm just sayin'...

MUST.NOT.HAPPEN.

Hey it's fine. I'm not worried, but thanks.

I wasn't ever worried. I found amusement in it. I used to post their emails and laugh at them. My outlook on that front isn't changing.

I'm just kind of fed up overall. It's not like I get paid for this. It was a fun hobby for a while. Perhaps it's time to take up something else now. At least for a while.

Plus, it's kind of hard to rant when you're not in the mood. And my family is very quiet. They don't happen to like the way I say the things that I do. They agree with me, but they think it's rude. Maybe they're right. Going off the deep end is lots of fun sometimes, but it's not how I want to be remembered.

Anyway, thanks for defending me, those who did.

My comment to this esteemed group:

Words fail me.

I don't know who is responsible for letting such a travesty get this far, but a monument to Islam (and we all know that's indeed what it is), will not be allowed to stand at this sacred place.

I will allow the possibility of willful ignorance on your part and assume you have been duped.
Shame on you all.

Sir Banagor.

I'm still new here, but I've had a chance to read some of your writings.
Good stuff man. Thank you for your service.

Maybe Charles can suggest a nice breezy beach for a good respite.

.

My comment:

"I can't believe you are still using an Islamic prayer symbol for the design (with its centerline pointing towards Mecca). Is this a memorial to those who perished fighting radical islam, or a memorial to those brave islamist who died in a gallant jihad? It certainly seems like the latter."

Banagor

Hang in there! here!

To Banagor & really grumpy big dog johnson:

If the Amish ever get around to discovering LGF, quite a few of us are going to be in deep doodoo. Sarcasm can be nasty, especially when not immediately and broadly recognised as such.

Banagor, I suspect many LGFers are in the habit of focusing first on content of posts, mostly ignoring NICs, unless a post is unusually good, bad, funny or provocative. You can't expect everyone to take NIC/reputation into account when trying to decide if something is sarcasm.

Not counting this post, I found two references to moonbat in proximity to your NIC on this thread --both in posts by you. If for nothing else, you should apologise for saying First he calls me a moonbat,..

RGBDG, you should apologise for the sustained friendly fire.

And everyone, please consider that a substantial percentage of LGF readers (even in USA) may have zero knowledge of the Amish, except for unlabeled sarcasm in LGF posts.

Bowl my a$$, look at the damned topo and tell me how it's a bowl/

I new the creater is an "artist" and as such, has a rather low ability to deal with such things as life, physics, logic, etc. But, what part of "We don't want no stinkin' Muslem crap in the Monument" does he not understnad?

Oops...artist moment...that's "knew", not new.

Or perhaps for an artistic moment, I could say "gnew".

And a tree for each terrorist muslim passenger. Gee, they forgot about the rest of the vermin in the plane, think about the cockraoches that died.

My spellchecker likes "cockraoches"?

The precedent for dealing with the Left when they get caught, is the DNC's promises to return campaign monies from interesting donors. They always announce they're doing it, but no one ever follows up that the deed was done. Even Hillary's brother had a pile of consulting fees that he announced he would return, but who knows what really happened?
What's this called? Softening? Drag it out, wait a while, then the people wander away, then go right on doing what you intended to do all along.
Seems to me, the tactic is to pinpoint the money. Just sending notes to the Park Service isn't effective. Our bureaucracy has an ethos of its own, too many inside like this PC nonsense. There are a few people who are pushing this who haven't been held accountable. Media coverage, congressional, Senate, not locally, but nationally.
Most Americans don't know anything about this project. If they did, there would be a lot more screams of outrage.

Good morning, wanumba.
Same to you, BenZacharia. I have a sense of what you and your wife are going thru; lost mine 6 yr ago.

Just sent my little comment, with a quote from Rawls.
I hope they will listen.

Back on topic:

Knowing personally a number of national park service managers and following the nps inside politics for decades, you should know that the majority of them are certifiable moonbats. That the design is an insult to the American people and those murdered on 9/11 may not be enough to derail this project. I would consider contacting your non-moonbat political representatives and complaining, too.