He'll be lucky if he is not assasinated by the ROPer thugs.

A pox on islam.

So he can you use it as a "See, I told you so" example?

Still the typical "poor me" muslim victimhood statements.

“The so-called conviction that the sword is used to expand Islam in the world ....." if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....
what are we supposed to think?

What is the compulsion to preach "brotherhood" with people who want you dead?

Pope is doing the right thing. He's not backing down and he's talking brotherly love. That outta piss'em off even more!

The Pope gets it. Pay attention to this Pope. He speaks the truth.

God, these ROPers are such sniveling babies.

Just STFU for five minutes, would you?

I'll bet this is half tongue-in-cheek.

Benedict also said guarantees of religious freedom are essential for a just society.

He can turn this statement around and use it against RoP countries.

--growing Islamophobia hurts all Muslims--

Agreed, what steps are you taking to counter-act it?

Mebbe following Ratzi's suggestions?

Well, let's think about this for a minute: How many countries in the world have adopted Islamic tenets peacefully? None. How many have adopted Islamic tenets because of violence, or the threat of violence? Lots. QED.

5 mj

The message there is for the people who want you (us) dead, that they are mistaken, and that we are all brothers.

lol

more Pallywood stuff

13,000 PA ceasefire brigade is actually a few uniformed dudes posing for photographers

The Pope preaches love, tolerance, understanding and respect for your fellow man.

The Death Cult preaches violence and death, mayhem and murder.

See if you can figure out which is the superior path.

I have prayed. I am renewed.

Jammie---what is a "ROPer"---I'm a newbie, what did I miss?

So can Islamic leaders explain why they might kick a Muslim out of a Mosque who chastises suicide bombers, and their leaders - yet the actual terror leaders are never officially kicked out of anything?

To all Muslims who want to live in peace and happiness, and see their children prosper on the earth, learn the pure teachings of Christ who can save you from your sins.

He is merciful to all who come to Him.

Although he may not have the social skills as JPII had; he definitely thinks things out and speaks his mind. This is a Pope with a stronger backbone.

Good Article in the WSJ this weekend about him. Hopefully he stays around and makes a difference.

JPII had the Cold War
Benny has the Islamist rising as his challenge...

there's hope!

OH OH , I answered myself when I hit the button---Religion Of Peace ers?

I think I need to pray again...

.

The ... conviction that the sword is used to expand Islam in the world and growing Islamophobia hurts all Muslims,”

And that's good.

14 JWF

Yes, and which path actually works.

If you want the engineering approach and are concerned about the results, Judaeo-Christainity has far better results.

I thought Islam is the religion of perpetual war.

IMHO islamic crimes against humanity hurt islam much more than perceived "islamophobia". Phobias are irrational or exaggerated fears - there are very real and rational reasons to respond negatively to islam. When will muslims confront and halt the islamic perpetrators of murder and their religious leaders who direct them in the name of allah?

Islam must stop fearing Christ as the Son of God.

They must stop being Christophobes.

I'm proud to be Islamophobic. The whole world should have this mentality. Too bad people in the 1930's and 40's weren't Naziphobic. If they were there wouldn't have been a Holocaust.
The world needs to know what Islam stands for before it's too late.
The Pope is acting like a groveling dhimmi and as a Catholic I'm ashamed and have absolutely no respect for this Pope who should have told the Muslims where to stuff it.

Islamophobia hurts all muslims?

Islamofascism kills.

Once again the whiny Muslim groups worry about this mythical "backlsh" while Christians and Jews experience "whiplash" as they are literally and figuratively run over, blown up, and decapitated by practitioners of the RoP

Will they let the Pope inside of a mosque?
The Pope and the Vatican have certainly had Muslims inside and the walls haven't fallen down yet.
What double standard?

“The so-called conviction that the sword is used to expand Islam in the world and growing Islamophobia hurts all Muslims,” Bardakoglu said at a joint appearance.

Good point. Perhaps the head-cutters were actually using knives, not swords. We stand corrected. Sorry.

I'll bet this is half tongue-in-cheek.

Benedict also said guarantees of religious freedom are essential for a just society.

He can turn this statement around and use it against RoP countries.

No, I think he's making his point alreeady. ROP knows what he's saying.

As Ojoe said, this pope gets it. I hope folks around the world are listening.

“The so-called conviction that the sword is used to expand Islam in the world and growing Islamophobia hurts all Muslims,” Bardakoglu said at a joint appearance.

Hurts all muslims?
Good.
Let's have more of it.

JWM

“The so-called conviction that the sword is used to expand Islam in the world and growing Islamophobia hurts all Muslims,” Bardakoglu said at a joint appearance.

We are not living in the Stone Ages silly. Ever since the invention of gunpowder we use AK's and bombs. It is just this sort of stereotyping of the Islamic world that leads to misunderstandings.
/the only modern invention they have embraced

#15 seejanemom

ROP'er=Religion of Peace member.

#15 seejanemom

ROP'er = Religion of Peace member

Sorry for double post-shakey shakey today.

I'm sure he meant Islam's phobias.

Why does the Pope need so much security?

It's a ROP, no?

Benedict also said guarantees of religious freedom are essential for a just society.

Nothing just about Islamic society, where you have lots of religious freedom. You are free to convert, or you are free to die

'Islamo-phobia' as a description just isn't cutting it anymore since we've proven its not an irrational fear.

May I suggest the following lexicographal possibilities?

Islamosis
Islamatoma
Islamitis
Islamentia
Islamexia
Islamaphasia
Islamotosis
Islamophilia
Islamaralysis

Blue light special here: two cheeseheads for the price of one!

Yeah, maybe the Pope needs to make a visit to the USA:

'Nativity' Booted From Ill. Holiday Fair
CHICAGO - A public Christmas festival is no place for the Christmas story, the city says. Officials have asked organizers of a downtown Christmas festival, the German Christkindlmarket, to reconsider using a movie studio as a sponsor because it is worried ads for its film "The Nativity Story" might offend non-Christians.

New Line Cinema, which said it was dropped, had planned to play a loop of the new film on televisions at the event. The decision had both the studio and a prominent Christian group shaking their heads.

"The last time I checked, the first six letters of Christmas still spell out Christ," said Paul Braoudakis, spokesman for the Barrington, Ill.-based Willow Creek Association, a group of more than 11,000 churches of various denominations. "It's tantamount to celebrating Lincoln's birthday without talking about Abraham Lincoln."

[Link: enews.earthlink.net...]

#40 Carl B

Packer loss got me shaking mad today.

36 little boomer

I'm sure he meant Islam's phobias.

Now that makes more sense! Muslims have an irrational fear of the West, Christianity, Judaism, modernity, freedom, etc., etc.

41 realwest

darn, I was just gonna link that

of course, the problem with The Nativity is that it directly contradicts the Koranic version, in which Jesus is born to Mary as she sits under a date palm, by a stream

He announces His divinity to her

] He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy.
[19.20] She said: When shall I have a boy and no mortal has yet touched me, nor have I been unchaste?
[19.21] He said: Even so; your Lord says: It is easy to Me: and that We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from Us, and it is a matter which has been decreed.
[19.22] So she conceived him; then withdrew herself with him to a remote place.
[19.23] And the throes (of childbirth) compelled her to betake herself to the trunk of a palm tree. She said: Oh, would that I had died before this, and had been a thing quite forgotten!
[19.24] Then (the child) called out to her from beneath her: Grieve not, surely your Lord has made a stream to flow beneath you;
[19.25] And shake towards you the trunk of the palmtree, it will drop on you fresh ripe dates:
[19.26] So eat and drink and refresh the eye. Then if you see any mortal, say: Surely I have vowed a fast to the Beneficent God, so I shall not speak to any man today.

[Link: www.hti.umich.edu...]

i bet this goes for any muslim country

Pope Benedict is a very smart guy ... every time he says anything reasonable, the Islamist reaction is decidedly and very publicly unreasonable.

The Muslims are not going to be persuaded to reason by the Pope. He's setting an example for Christians to take back their heritage of Reason and practice it before it's simply gone with the wind. The choice is ours.

“The so-called conviction that the sword is used to expand Islam in the world and growing Islamophobia hurts all Muslims,” Bardakoglu said at a joint appearance.

Here's a novel idea:STOP TRYING TO SPREAD ISLAM BY THE SWORD!

Dumbass.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Call me crazy but isn't violence being used in indonesia against non-muslims? Yeah, its real hard to brush off that whole death sentence for people who convert from Islam. There was also that nasty incident where some girls in India, if I remember correctly, dared to be christians outside doing normal everyday activities and subsequently were beheaded in an act of islamic charity. I guess its better off to be dead than an infidel, expecially a female non-msulim under the age of 18.

And another thing, all these thousands of people out demonstrating against he Pope...don't these people have jobs or school to attend? Or do they just sit around waiting for the next good chance to impose dhimmitude on the west?

Islamophobia: [Is-lah-mo-foh-bee-uh],/Isləmoˈfoʊb iə/
. A sustained resistance to Islamofascist aggression.
// The American Reptilian Dictionary ® Copyright © Sept. 2001.

“The so-called conviction that the sword is used to expand Islam in the world and growing Islamophobia hurts all Muslims,” Bardakoglu said...

Bardakoglu might wish to browse through the first 100 pages of Andrew Bostom's The Legacy of Jihad to educte himself on how the sword was essential to the spread of mohammedanism.

It will be interesting to see how Benedict acts at the Hagia Sophia. Orianna Fallaci in "The Force of Reason" detailed what happened when the Muslims took over the Christian church in the 15th century. Everyone who had taken refuge inside was SLAUGHTERED (i.e. the real meaning of martyrdom), even babies whose heads were used to extinguish candles.

It was a mosque and since 1935 a "secular" museum of Turkish history. JP II visited in 1979 and did not make any overt religious gestures, but Pope Paul VI, in 1967, dropped to his knees in prayer in front of all the Turkish dignitaries.

Let's hope Benedict does the same, in honor of all the Hagia Sophia's martyrs.

#47 TotallySirius - HI guy! What's he mean by "The so-called conviction that the sword is used to expand Islam..."? SO-Called? WTF?

Pope is doing the right thing. He's not backing down and he's talking brotherly love.

Why I like Mr Pope. He's not a liberal wienie and he doesn't cave in to critizism. He has real convictions.

48 Ayatrollah

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Yep. Just ask Theo Van Gogh

Blog Reaction Roundup.

Turks can shove it!

From DhimmiWatch:
Turkey: Converts' trial shows tensions before Pope's visit
Hakan Tastan and Turan Topal Update from Compass Direct:
A criminal trial against two Turkish Christians accused of “insulting Turkishness” and inciting hatred against Islam grabbed national media coverage as religious tensions mounted before the visit of Pope Benedict XVI tomorrow.
A cluster of TV cameras, microphones and clamoring Turkish journalists waited for more than an hour outside the Silivri Courthouse in northwestern Turkey for Hakan Tastan, 37, and Turan Topal, 46, to emerge from their opening hearing on Thursday (November 23) before the Silivri Criminal Court.

Tastan promptly stepped up to the mikes, stating, “We are being accused because we are Christians and because we have done missionary work.”

Formally the two Christians are charged with violating Article 301 of the Turkish penal code, under which scores of Turkish intellectuals and writers have been prosecuted in the past 18 months for allegedly denigrating “Turkish identity.”

The former Muslims are also accused under separate statutes of reviling Islam (Article 216), as well as secretly compiling files on private citizens for a Bible correspondence course without the individuals’ knowledge or permission (Article 135).

“We don’t use force to tell anyone about Christianity,” Tastan said. “But we are Christians, and if the Lord permits, we will continue to proclaim this.”

Describing himself and Topal as “citizens of the Republic of Turkey who love its democratic, secular system,” Tastan stressed they had nothing to hide in defending themselves in court. “We are not ashamed to be Turks. We are not ashamed to be Christians.”

Tensions outside the courtroom were heightened by the unexpected appearance of ultranationalist Kemal Kerincsiz, a fiery attorney who intervened in the Christians’ case to lead a team of four other prosecution lawyers at the hearing. Kerincsiz has gained national notoriety by filing dozens of Article 301 cases against prominent intellectuals for defaming “Turkishness.”

Scuffles Break Out

Moments after Tastan and Topal walked away with their lawyer, Kerincsiz launched an impromptu press conference from the courtroom steps.

“Christian missionaries working almost like terrorist groups are able to enter into high schools and among primary school students,” Kerincsiz told reporters. “They deceive our children with beautiful young girls.”
At this, one Turkish Christian in the crowd shouted, “He’s lying!” Several nationalist demonstrators reacted violently, starting to shove the converts’ supporters and hitting one. But police promptly intervened to detain and remove the attacker, releasing him a few minutes later.

Why is everyone so impressed with the Pope? It seems to me that he is really laying it on thick with these Muslims and that seems disengenuous. He isn't making strong statements at all. I felt sick when I heard that he was talking to them about "brotherhood." What brotherhood?

#58 American Jewess
In response to why everybody is acting so impressed it is because while on the one hand he saying to the Islamic world reach out to us and convince us that you are not the supporters of violence that the truth on the ground says you are and in so doing it is a challenge to them to show some sort of tolerance.
It is a very brave thing he is doing even with all of the security that was necessary, but Sadat had all kinds of security too. It only takes one jihadists among the security forces to make this visit turn out badly.
I wonder what the worlds' reaction will be if an attempt is made on the Pope's life or if one is successful.
So while he is having to be surrounded by security while meeting people who say publicly that Islam is not spread by the sword he is also putting his faith in G_d and putting it on display for all to see. Sort of a Daniel in the lion's den kind of moment.

58 AJJ

The Pope means, IMHO, that the Fizzlamics need to act in brotherhood, that is, to change their tune. He is issuing a challenge to them. Of course there is little brotherhood now.

Just a Grunt and Ojoe

Well, okay. Thanks for that perspective. I guess I'm just so used to all our leaders being such appeasers that I didn't really read between the lines of his statements. G-d bless him and make him successful in his mission, though I still prefer the Bolton style to dealing with the Muslims!

#61 American Jewess in Jerusalem

though I still prefer the Bolton style to dealing with the Muslims!

Honestly, who doesn't prefer Bolton's way of dealing with Muslims? But the methods of the Pontiff are also important, and besides his September 12 Regensburg speech took greater aim at the West than it did at Muslims.

To this day the man has not apologized for uttering those words, he was sorry for the reactions his words caused, but he has not taken them back, he has not said he was wrong, etc.

#62 X

Well said.

X, yes, but he has said several times that he doesn't agree with the comment of the person he quoted, and to me, that is tantamount to groveling and kowtowing. Why shouldn't he agree with that quote? It was true, and he obviously thought it valuable enough to include it in his speech. What's the point of trying to distance himself from the meaning and intent of that quote?

64 AJJ

I think Benedict is keeping a door open to the islamics who might want to go through it to reason and sanity. Let us hope some do. I would like to see an islamic with an eraser revise the koran and claim divine inspiration. Certainly that is less likely to happen if we condemn all human beings who have been suduced by fizzlam.

What's getting lost in all this is that BXVI isn't in Turkey to discuss islam, but rather strengthen the ties between the Catholic & Orthodox Churches. Of course, the muslim seethers & their willing accomplices in the MSM think everything revolves around them.

The Pope's laying it on a bit thick for my taste.

#64 American Jewess in Jerusalem

X, yes, but he has said several times that he doesn't agree with the comment of the person he quoted, and to me, that is tantamount to groveling and kowtowing. Why shouldn't he agree with that quote? It was true, and he obviously thought it valuable enough to include it in his speech. What's the point of trying to distance himself from the meaning and intent of that quote?

If the Pontiff had come out and said he agreed with that quote, could it have resulted in the slamming of a door to 'dialogue'?

It does seem as if he is kowtowing, but if he came out and said yes Islam is spread by the sword what would our reactions have been? A couple of reactions come to mind: rejection of his words or rumors about the beginning of another Crusade? (I bet that would have been a great hit.)

#66 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

What's getting lost in all this is that BXVI isn't in Turkey to discuss islam, but rather strengthen the ties between the Catholic & Orthodox Churches. Of course, the muslim seethers & their willing accomplices in the MSM think everything revolves around them.

Yes, that is the purpose for his visit to Turkey as well as bringing attention to the mistreatment of Christians and other religious minorities in Islamic countries.

BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey,

Yes, and as soon as the Pope of Rome acknowledges the errors of the Roman Church, and pledges to follow the teachings of the One Holy Catholic and Apolostic Church (i.e., the Orthodox Church), the Eastern Church and the Roman Church may once again be united ;)

FYI, the term 'Catholic' is roughly translated to mean 'universal' and does not properly refer to the Church of Rome. The Church of Rome was once an autonomous Orthodox Patriarcate, like the Churches of Antioch, Constantinople, and Jerusalem, etc., until 1054 when the Roman Church declared its Pope to be "the vicar of Christ", departing from its original title as 'First Among Equals'. More at: [Link: www.saintignatiuschurch.org...]

-Eastern Orthodox Christian

#70 townm

In the future, all Christians shall be re-united, and will form one Church.

#70 towm

The Church of Rome was once an autonomous Orthodox Patriarcate, like the Churches of Antioch, Constantinople, and Jerusalem, etc., until 1054 when the Roman Church declared its Pope to be "the vicar of Christ", departing from its original title as 'First Among Equals'.

It seems there is a factual error here, since the designation "Vicar of Christ" was first given to the Bishop of Rome in 495 following the Roman Synod (a meeting of all the fathers of the main churches). The pope at this time was Gelacius I and he was clearly given a position of authority among the patriarchs. I don't regard myself as an expert on church history, but I pretty sure this history is non-controversial.

#72 pimf: "I'm" and it's Gelasius

from the Pope's trip

"The so-called conviction that the sword is used to expand Islam in the world, and growing Islamophobia hurts all Muslims," Bardakoglu said at a joint appearance.

I seem to remember a couple of reporters that were, I think the appropriate phrase is, forced by the sword, to convert to islam.

islophobia doesn't hurt muslims, their actions do. They are making their own bed.

Benedict also said guarantees of religious freedom are essential for a just society and urged all religious leaders to "utterly refuse" to support any form of violence in the name of faith

yeah, good luck with that.

71 X

Actually it will be more inclusive than that; all good people will be united, which in fact they already are, but it will be obvious to even casual observers that they are united.

Also there will be more of them, IMHO.

I am an optimist !

A great difference in time, between 495 AD and 1054 AD (#70 & #72). But not right now, time to go home now. TTFN.

#52 splendid confusion

It will be interesting to see how Benedict acts at the Hagia Sophia. Orianna Fallaci in "The Force of Reason" detailed what happened when the Muslims took over the Christian church in the 15th century.

Too polite to complain about the 'occupayshun' of one of the holiest sites for Christians (the third holiest, just summoning a number out of thin air) - unlike certain members of a certain Peaceful Religion who ought to follow his example.

And on the note of the Popes visit to Turkey comes this news:

Jihadists Attack Vatican Web Site

An appeal to Jihadist hackers was sent out through Web forums linked to al-Qaida and was posted on two of the Web sites that publish messages from the terrorist organization.

"The leadership of the electronic Jihad has decided to undertake a grand attack against the official Vatican site following the insults by the Pope against our Prophet," the statement read in Arabic, referring to remarks the Pope made in a September 12 speech

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]

Source:

Andrea Kirk Assaf reports this story exclusively for NewsMax.com.
Tuesday, Nov. 28, 2006 12:24 a.m. EST

#78 Outrider

Jihadists Attack Vatican Web Site

This is their third attempt. They failed the other two times. From the article you linked:

Vatican electronic defenses include a firewall named Michael, after the Archangel who was said to have battled Satan. Other Vatican servers for the Web site are named Gabriel and Raphael. So far, the Vatican’s virtual Archangels have won the battle against cyberterrorists.

This is the Vatican's secret weapon against Jihadi hackers.

That and the fact that jihadi hackers are stupid and useless.

#79 RC neo-Jew

Vatican electronic defenses include a firewall named Michael, after the Archangel who was said to have battled Satan. Other Vatican servers for the Web site are named Gabriel and Raphael. So far, the Vatican’s virtual Archangels have won the battle against cyberterrorists.

Yeah, I didn't want to cut and paste the entire article.

I find the server named Gabriel interesting. It's a wonder they didn't go for that one just for the symbolism as it was archangel Gabriel that "talked" to Mohammed and gave him the Quoran.

If they end up pissing off every Catholic in the world, then we will have another Crusade. ;-)>

"...“The so-called conviction that the sword is used to expand Islam in the world and growing Islamophobia hurts all Muslims,” Bardakoglu said at a joint appearance...."

And who's fault is this? Oh yes. The Jews, the Pope, the Christians, the Buddhists, the Amish, the dog's, the bug in the fly trap...in other words, it's everyone's fault but the muslims.

Hmm. I wonder whether this bit of history explains anything.

The sack of Constantinople.

Bardakoglu stand next to the Pope in Constantinople saying islam isn't spread by the sword. That's rich.

test

which is why some of us Catholics affectionately call him 'B16'.
GO HOLY FATHER! THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING!

#84 xyan

Bardakoglu stand next to the Pope in Constantinople saying islam isn't spread by the sword. That's rich.

Though not unlike many of our own moonbats or democrats: "Bush lied, people died...!" Repeat a lie often enough and the mouthers believe it.

I saw a story on this on Foxnews today.

How... it boggles the mind... how do the moonbats and lefty peace-at-any-price ...what's the noun? ...idiots? ...maintain their blindness to what's going on, even in the face of the international Muslim hatred of this kind man, the Pope?

How many people will have to die before they get a clue?

It's right in front of them, and us all.

[shaking head]

Islamophobia?

How about Islamonausea?

More accurate, don't you know?

The best bit of the Pope's speech in Germany never seems to get printed:

Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as the command to spread Islam by the Sword.

And I love this from the Catholic Encyclopedia (1912) - I wish the Pope would shout this one out...

What is really good in Mohammedan ethics is either commonplace or borrowed from some other religions, whereas what is characteristic is nearly always imperfect or wicked.

Pope Benedict is a man of formidable intellect. He could take on a whole madrass full of mullahs and leave them in the dust. He preaches peace and brotherhood because he is a Christian and follows the example of Jesus. The Islamists scorn him and threaten him because they follow the example of Mohammed.

I'm wearing my St. Benedict medal and praying for him all the time he is on Turkish soil.

I was watching CNN this morning. A spokespersonman for the Catholic Church said Pope Benny wants religious reciprocity meaning that since Muslims can have mosques anywhere in the western world, Christians (and even joos) should be able to have churches and synagogues in places like Saudi Arabia.

The Catholic spokespersonman said that there were many Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia in which Christians could not own bibles, catechisms (whatever they are) and other Christian paraphernalia.

The Catholic spokespersonman hinted that in some Muslim countries it wasn’t just mobs of “youths” that strung up apostates; Muslim religious bodies and even sanctioned courts also sentence apostates to death.

A Muslim spokespersonman came on right after to say that was nonsense and that Christians could have churches in all Muslim dominated countries.

Someone is telling fibs.

Can or can not Christians have churches and bibles in Saudi Arabia?

Do any Muslim countries have state sanctioned courts that would sentence an apostate to death?

Are there other Muslim countries in which Christianity and its churches and symbols are banned?

Please put an end my ignorance on this topic.

PS/ To my esteemed American neighbours, how are you enjoying the weather we are sending down?

Can or can not Christians have churches and bibles in Saudi Arabia?

Of course not, kafir; and for a non-Muslim to go to Makkah is punishable by death. Oh Allab! Infidels can be stupid!

Do any Muslim countries have state sanctioned courts that would sentence an apostate to death?

Only those that abide by the Shariah of our beloved Nabi (SAW), such as Saudi Arabia.

Are there other Muslim countries in which Christianity and its churches and symbols are banned?

A few, but not nearly enough. Again, Saudi Arabia is a good example.

Oh, you dumb Canuck kafir! Aisha's guide to the hell-bent infidels says that a Catechism is a book that sets out the fundamentals of "Catholic" "belief"