It's all relative.

A moderate will cut your throat, but he'll do it with a sharp knife

Abbas is a moderate, thats the scary part

I get it-- "a moderate terrorist"

“Eighty-six million is the figure we’re looking at with Congress, that’s our starting point,” said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack. He said the aid would be “non-lethal assistance” including communications gear, vehicles and uniforms as well as training.

Great. We can look forward to many more non-lethal flaming hoop jumping exercises

Moderate is as moderate does.

And #2 Elric .. too true.

well, if we give them some money we will have more influence over them, including the right to ask how our money is being spent, y'see?

that's why we fund them

/naive State Dept Spokesperson out

I think Homer Simpson said it best when he yelled...

"AHHH CRAP!"

Time to go buy more guns...

Pass me some Tylenol.

# 1
Yeah, a sharp knife...LO

You are only a terrorists if you are fighting to be free...
UH,
Free from what?

Bye lizards .. off and about to do Saturday things. See ya all later!

8 Capt Faust
like this?
[Link: www.kahr.com...]

I'm certain that the family of murdered American-Israeli athlete David Berger z'tl wouldn't consider Abbas "moderate". More likely, "complicit in first degree murder" and "member of a terrorist organization" and "accessory to money laundering for criminal purposes".

How many knives can you buy with 184 million dollars?

USA- to Abbas 100 million
Israel 84 million...

Libyan moderate Update: Kaddafi's hostage-extortion is now "official";

Qaddafi Wants Money and Lockerbie Attacker for Nurses' Release

Muammar Qaddafi has officially stated his conditions for the release of the five Bulgarian nurses and a Palestinian doctor sentenced to death in Libya, a website of the Libyan opposition claims.

Cited by the Bulgarian national radio, the site claims that Qaddafi has sent an official note to the EU country members and the US, requesting compensations for the families of the HIV-infected children and the release of the terrorist from Lockerbie...

Nemo me impune lacessit

Carthago delenda est

"Moderate" as compared to what? A baby alligator to an adult alligator? A poorly-financed terrorist to a well-financed terrorist?

I'm having trouble with the logic here.

Jury starts deliberations in terrorism financing trial

In an emotional appeal to jurors on Wednesday, Ashqar attorney William Moffitt likened Hamas to movements around the world led by such champions of human rights as Martin Luther King Jr. and Nelson Mandela.

[Link: www.belleville.com...]

Disgusting

16 ggt

no I think you understand it perfectly

Just another example of the "repeat until true" subjectivism rampant today.

Now class, write 100 times:

Abbas is not a mass murderer, he's a moderate.
Abbas is not a mass murderer, he's a moderate.
Abbas is not a mass murderer, he's a moderate.
...

Arafat redux.

I think I am getting a little bit annoyed with giving ANYBODY money right now.

The checkbook is closed.

What's the problem? He's a moderate terrorist. As opposed to the extreme terrorists.

I don't get it. Train and arm people that want to kill Americans and Jews?

We are giving "non-lethal" assistance because as we all know communications gear and vehicles are not very important when fighting a war.

Do you think we're 86ing ourselves by giving this aid?

I guess it doesn't matter much as long as we can all go on feeling good about ourselves for having helped out those poor, poor victims of Apartheid.

This is so great! New big typeface for preview! I love it. THANK YOU CHARLES.

Latest update on US troops "torturing"

[Link: hotair.com...]

Part of that $86 million will eventually trickle down into Fatah employees' paychecks, right? And how many of those Fatah employees "moonlight" for Hamas? 30% is the number estimated in this Spiegel online article. Fatah by day: Hamas by night.

By day, the 23-year-old serves in the Palestinian security forces, which are controlled by Fatah. When Abu Khaled's workday ends, though, he goes home, changes his uniform, pulls out his weapons and transforms himself into a fighter with the Qassam Brigades -- the military arm of Hamas. If his fellow Fatah security officers knew what he did at night, he says, "they would open fire on us immediately."...

"We are not a rarity," says the fighter. He estimates that about 30 percent of the men who officially serve with the Palestinian security forces are secretly active members of militia groups with ties to Hamas -- armed men who change sides depending on the time of day.

Bush is so stupid. His head is so far up and locked that he is an embarrasement. How can any leader be so stupid? Doesn't he ever spend any time on the internet?

Actually all that non-lethal stuff can be rigged
to give position and or break. Maybe that's the idea.

-S-

How come other rich terrorists countries aren't footing the bill?

Moderate terrorist means taking a week to march the Jews into the sea, instead of doing it all in one day.

/Menshaviks.

Compared to suicide bombers, etc., he looks like a moderate. He's friendly to their cause, but since he doesn't do it himself, he's not as extreme.

Moderate, in newspeak, is like computing an average. It depends on how similar the numbers are that you put in.

Hamas has made very clear, that they will be "receiving" ALL of the $86 million, one way or another.

But the U.S just keeps skipping and whistling right along with the check.

Much like ahmadinnerjacket says he will wipe Israel off the map when they go nuclear, and the world community does,

nothing.

It will be interesting, when the people who do nothing, to support Israel, realize, that to do nothing, is the same, as being , against Israel!

As one of the black actors in one the The Three Stooges shorts said: "This house has sho' gone crazy!"

Are there any sane Palestinians?

Sick

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

4-year-old decapitated; cops seek father

RALEIGH, N.C. - A mother found her 4-year-old daughter decapitated in her home, and police issued an arrest warrant for the girl's father.

John Patrick Violette, 37, was last seen driving a Buick station wagon near his home Friday afternoon in Clayton, about 15 miles southeast of Raleigh, said Clayton Police Chief Glen Allen. Violette's wife, Amber Violette, called 911 that evening, saying she had found her daughter, Katlin, with her head severed from her body, he said.

Yeah, and the Islamic Courts, recently kicked out of Somalia, were "conservative." But they had "moderate elements" too, that the state department wanted the new Somali government to invite in.

"Moderate" and "islam" are mutually exclusive.

Re-run time (these were made in October)

Koom Bah Humbug

Diplo-Babbling Whoredoms of Doom

The Burnt Out Bush

Articles:
High Priestess of the Palestinian State

Most Pro-Palestinian Speech In Memory By U.S. Administration Official

The Double Life of Abu Khaled

The moderate Mahmoud Abbas's phd dissertation was a work of Holocaust denial.

About the additional aid-

look on the bright side:

if we didn't help Abbas while Iran armed Ham-ass, Ham-ass would wipe out Fatah quickly, leaving most of them. Whereas keeping Fatah armed ensures a prolonged civil war maximizing Palistainian killing.

Cair denies sectarian violence in Detroit...
Muslim leaders respond to acts of violence

The motive behind the attacks remains under investigation, police said, although some believe that increasing tension between local Shi'a and Sunni Muslims following the execution of former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein may have played a role.
...

However, many local religious and community leaders were quick to dismiss those claims, and have urged residents to avoid rushing to judgment before the investigation is completed.

"At this point, no one is certain of the religion of the vandals," said Dawud Walid, director of the Michigan chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-MI). "We must be patient — we cannot categorize an entire group based on the action of a few of its members."
...
Hamad also said that the investigation could reveal that the perpetrator of the attack was not Shi'a or Sunni — but rather an outside source seeking to increase tension between the two groups.

"I think some people are playing with fire and speculating based on a lack of evidence," Hamad said. "This could be an orchestrated effort by someone who wanted to increase the violence. This is clearly an act of violence, but that doesn't mean it's sectarian violence."
...
"The sectarian violence in the Middle East doesn't exist here — at least not to the extent most people think," he said. "People know that this type of violence isn't acceptable here."

Must be Da Jooos!

I just went to the US government "be ready" website and entered Hezbollah in the search ...www.ready.gov

[Link: www.ready.gov...]

I got an interesting result.

you should all try it and see just how prepared our government wants us to be regarding terrorist organizations

try it at US department of Homeland Security website and you get essentially the same answer

try it for
Hamas
al-aqsa martyrs brigades

same results

#37 NoSubmission 1/13/2007 10:18AM PST

Are there any sane Palestinians?

there are no Palestinians, there is no Palestine

Just Jordanians and Egyptians who are part of a 60 year long propaganda op.

If we are doing this for any other reason than to keep the growing civil war between Hamas and Fatah going, than I am a lost to explain why we would finance anyone associated with Islamic jihadists, "secular" or otherwise.

And I have to believe that this is only the top layer of the onion, the one meant for public consumption. At least Abbas dresses in a suit and pretends to be civilized.

Also, I'm sure Israel has a say in this on some level, just not sure where.

Otherwise, we're doomed, I tell ya. Doomed.

#45 shug

IOW...ready, my ass.

30 el greco 1/13/2007 10:16AM PST

Bush is so stupid. His head is so far up and locked that he is an embarrasement. How can any leader be so stupid? Doesn't he ever spend any time on the internet?

I am beginning to think he is as dumb as the left says he is. God help us and deliver us a leader that is not a politician but a true statesman. (or stateswoman) er is it (statesperson?)

BabbaZee !

Correct. I should have typed pseudostinians.

Question still stands. Are there? There must be.

/holding out hope

#28 Elric66

I am always amused when the MSM and the liberal elites cry "torture" over what would amount to no more than freshman hazing on any college campus in America. Hey, lefties: You want torture? Take a page from your favorite victim group (i.e., the American Indian) and see what they did to captured foes. I dare say, what they did was light years different from what our troops did.

#49 yah 1/13/2007 10:22AM PST

30 el greco 1/13/2007 10:16AM PST

Bush is so stupid. His head is so far up and locked that he is an embarrasement. How can any leader be so stupid? Doesn't he ever spend any time on the internet?

I am beginning to think he is as dumb as the left says he is. God help us and deliver us a leader that is not a politician but a true statesman. (or stateswoman) er is it (statesperson?)

The left doesnt like him for different reasons than true conservatives do.

And I'm starting to think the recent hostilities between Hamas and Fatah were a ruse to get the $86 million. A few dozen murders, even of children, are nothing to those terrorists.

Every time I hear about the amount of money we send to the Mideast ($2 bill to Egypt/yr, now this) it makes me want to puke. If it did any good, maybe it would be tolerable. But we send all this money and they continue to hate us. Maybe this is just jizya called by another name.

#51 hiker 1/13/2007 10:23AM PST

#28 Elric66

I am always amused when the MSM and the liberal elites cry "torture" over what would amount to no more than freshman hazing on any college campus in America. Hey, lefties: You want torture? Take a page from your favorite victim group (i.e., the American Indian) and see what they did to captured foes. I dare say, what they did was light years different from what our troops did.

But they love real leftie torturers like Stalin and Mao. Castro is pretty cool to according to them. But if we flush a Qur'an or form human pyramids. SHUDDERRR

#42 mrotenb 1/13/2007 10:19AM PST

The moderate Mahmoud Abbas's phd dissertation was a work of Holocaust denial.

Correct. His 2003 statement must be the "moderation" part.

The thesis of Abbas' 1982 doctoral dissertation was The Secret Connection between the Nazis and the Leaders of the Zionist Movement[2][3] In 1984, a book based on Abbas' doctoral dissertation was published in Arabic by Dar Ibn Rushd publishers in Amman, Jordan. His doctoral thesis later became a book, The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism, which, following his appointment as Palestinian Prime Minister in 2003, was heavily criticized as an Holocaust denial

. In his book, Abbas wrote:

"It seems that the interest of the Zionist movement, however, is to inflate this figure [of Holocaust deaths] so that their gains will be greater. This led them to emphasize this figure [six million] in order to gain the solidarity of international public opinion with Zionism. Many scholars have debated the figure of six million and reached stunning conclusions—fixing the number of Jewish victims at only a few hundred thousand." [4][5][6]

In his May 2003 interview with Haaretz Abbas stated:

"I wrote in detail about the Holocaust and said I did not want to discuss numbers. I quoted an argument between historians in which various numbers of casualties were mentioned. One wrote there were 12 million victims and another wrote there were 800,000. I have no desire to argue with the figures. The Holocaust was a terrible, unforgivable crime against the Jewish nation, a crime against humanity that cannot be accepted by humankind. The
Holocaust was a terrible thing and nobody can claim I denied it." [7

45 shug 1/13/2007 10:21AM PST

I just went to the US government "be ready" website and entered Hezbollah in the search ...www.ready.gov

Pitifull - any of our many Florida Hurricane websites would prepare you better for a disaster.

#33 Earth2Moonbat

"Moderate terrorist means taking a week to march the Jews into the sea, instead of doing it all in one day."

Well, a week to ten days, anyway, depending on logistics. If they could blow the seawall and flood Israel they would. That's the difference between a "moderate" islamist and a "radical" islamist.

#50 NoSubmission
Hope in one hand and shit in the other and see which one gets filled first is what my Grandma would have said to you

VIDEO: Pretendistinians Using Children as Human Shields

The moderate Mahmoud Abbas's phd dissertation was a work of Holocaust denial.

So was David Duke's. Brothers...

#30 el greco:

Bush is so stupid. His head is so far up and locked that he is an embarrasement. How can any leader be so stupid? Doesn't he ever spend any time on the internet?

You don't believe in good Palestinian people desire for Freedom. You are racist.

What is internet?

Jorge Viktorius Bush,
El Presidente of The United States of North America

#30 el greco 1/13/2007 10:16AM PST

Bush is so stupid. His head is so far up and locked that he is an embarrasement. How can any leader be so stupid? Doesn't he ever spend any time on the internet?

Idiot or Compliciot*?
(*babbazee language, complicit idiot)

I am starting to think that US government and the Bush admin is totaly wrong on who our enemies are in "the war on terror". Afghanistan was a legitimate target, and Saddam was just begging us for an ass-kicking. But the continued support of Palestine, Saudi-Arabia and Pakistan with military aid strike most as simply bribery in return for co-operation. Saudi-Arabia is western democracies primary enemy with their huge export of Islam. Pakistan apparently is harboring OBL, and the Palestinians are now ordering terrorists to strike the US. Great, lets give 'em 86 million in military aid. That will really stop them. I am begining to think the Bush administration are a bunch of idiots. The state department could use some help too...

Bush Praises Abbas As 'Man of Courage'

Does david Duke even have a PhD, and from what university? I know he was an undergrad at LSU, and marched around in Nazi uniforms.

Abbas' "PhD" came from a 'university' in the Soviet Union.

Hey Charles, the pic of Abbas is a bit unreliable : where's his cigar?

What ever happened to:

YOU ARE EITHER WITH US OR WITH THE TERRORISTS

5 years sho' does change things.

Story on right hand side above says Bolivia launches ambitious land reforms.

So I guess Evo Morales will kick the farmers who know how to grow crops off their land Zimbabwe style, and the LLL will be criticizing Bush in a year or so for not doing more to aid the Bolivian famine.

#65 Ed of the Many Names

David Duke did indeed attend LSU, but if I recall he never obtained a degree from that institution. If he does hold a degree, he purchased it via the mail off a coupon from the back of a magazine.

52 Elric66:

The left doesnt like him (ed Bush) for different reasons than true conservatives do.

Very ironic. The Repub Presidents the left hated most are Nixon and JorgeBush.
Both of them are as center-liberal as you can get.

Nixon got us OSHA, affirmative action, enviro over-regulation, detente with SU, removed gold standard.

Jorge is true believer in Multi-Culti subversion, wants to replace american people with thirld worlders via open borders, biggest spender in history of the world, fully absorbed leftist retoric, ie screams racism at any disagreement.

One would think that left would like these two, they are the best Repubs presidents as far as left is concerned.

Taqiyyalope

Meanwhile, over the past few weeks, the United States has provided 7,000 assault rifles and more than 1 million rounds of ammunition to militias associated with Fatah, which is commanded by Palestinian Authority president Abbas, even though the armed wing of Fatah, the Al-Aksa Martyrs' Brigades, is defined under US law as an FTO - a Foreign terror organization. The Bush administration will provide $86.4 million to strengthen security forces loyal to Abbas, including Force 17, Abbas' security detail, which also serves as de facto police units in the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

[snip]

Menawhile, Hamas' spokesman Abu Abdullah declared to World Net Daily that U.S. weapons to Fatah would eventually fall into the hands of Hamas.
"These American weapons will one day be the property of all the Palestinian people and its resistance, including Hamas," Abu Abdullah said. "The U.S. gives weapons to Fatah during internal Palestinian clashes, but one day when we go back to carrying out operations together, these [weapons] will be shared."

Smells like Jack Shaheen, Professor Emeritus of Mass Comunications at Southern Illinois University-Carbondale apparently has a busy consulting schedule. Time to smoke out Jack, his former students and alcolytes and shine some light on the guy who is responsable for creating a fifth column islamist media and propaganda force as well as establishing a propaganda cadre for the Islamists. SIU-C has historically had one of the highest enrollment of Middle Eastern and Southeast Asian Muslim students of any American university. Search the web and learn for yourself.

This aspect of US policy - supporting the so-called "moderate" Abbas, who is a leader like Arafat - still seems to be generally accepted as the right policy outside of strongly pro-Israel circles. It is viewed as taking the status quo and "not meddling" in the conflict by doing as we are -- supposedly funding the opposition to Hamas and giving aid to the people. Personally, I would support a political force / legislation to cut off the Palestinians' funds until they make changes. Should the US and Israel stop strengthening Abbas? I don't know? Would that allow Hamas to get stronger? Israel is our ally and we ought to have an sbsolutely clear policy after the Palestinians expressed their genocidal will. Israel pulled out of Gaza and this changed nothing on the other side.

Why do we have this policy? A couple basic reasons (and I do not buy into at all the conspiracy theory that the US and Israeli gov'ts support Abbas and genocide because of a Baker type of oil agreement):

- a Realist and fairly cynical notion that civil war among the terrorists there could have good consequences, a position apparently shared by Israel. The situation is contained so we can let them "shoot it out." Hence, both America and Israel allow the weaker Fatah to arm and bolster Abbas.

- countries like Egypt and Saudi Arabia claim that they cannot control their Islamist populations and maintain relations with the US if the US is seen to be supporting the destruction of the Paleos. This is a tradition that extends back since the days of Kissinger and Reagan. We pay Egypt billions and give the KSA a first class air force so that they do not attack Israel and so that the Muslim Brotherhood and al-Qaeda do not come into power.

#71 BabbaZee

Sorry.
Second link in the last post busted

here it is

Bedein: U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice To Promote Palestinian State
By: David Bedein, The Bulletin
01/12/2007

#73 correction: no '?' after "I don't know."

still seems to be generally accepted as the right policy outside of strongly pro-Israel circles

Yank...

Please.
Strongly pro-Israel circles?

It is getting so you could write for AP.

And those who are NOT "strongly Pro-Israel" are what?

Well, to give Abbas some credit, he doesn't look like a repulsive toad like Arafat did, especially when he spifs up in a suit.

/If you can't say anything nice...

#74 BabbaZee 1/13/2007 10:42AM PST

#71 BabbaZee

Sorry.
Second link in the last post busted

here it is

Bedein: U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice To Promote Palestinian State
By: David Bedein, The Bulletin
01/12/2007

I would honestly like to hear a good reason why the Palis deserve a state or what they have done to earn it.

There IS no "good" reason, Elric.
So you will never hear one.

NOT ONE.

#79 BabbaZee 1/13/2007 10:48AM PST

There IS no "good" reason, Elric.
So you will never hear one.

NOT ONE.

Probably not. Which then asks me why we are trying to give them one. Bush said we will not tolerate terrorist states. So why the hell should we help create one.

#76 BabbaZee

It is getting so you could write for AP.

I take personal offense to that. I would totally disagree. I oppose positions and the ideology of AP writers and journalists in every way.

My post was mainly factual about the opinions on the Arab-Israeli conflict. There is not at all widespread outrage about our policy of supporting the false "moderate" Abbas.

To answer your question, those who are "not" do not take a decided stance. It's viewed as part of "foreign policy."

Does a Pali civil war have a downside? Possibly. It could end too soon, or one side could out-gun the other and have too many survivors. The responable thing to do would be to make sure that one side does not gain an advantage over the other and keep it an even slaughter without showing favoritism or bias.

#82 gymnast - Isn't that what we're supposedly doing by giving 'em 86 million in aid money?

#82 gymnast

Sounds like a plan.

Yank

If you took such high offense,
I am sorry,

but you should realize I took high offense at

"strongly pro-Israel circles"

which read to me like an AP/BBC/AL-Reuters Euphemism for:

Friggin' Jew.

#81 pimf: the

Oh, and...

Foreign Policy my ass.

(not directed at you specifically Yank)

Yank:

To answer your question, those who are "not" do not take a decided stance. It's viewed as part of "foreign policy."

You can not win a war with out a "decided stance"

BabbaZee

I am certainly in that circle, especially since I spent two weeks in Israel and experienced the welcoming and amazing country for myself. I'm not part of the indifferent masses on this.

The main point of my comment was to describe the nature of the US position and why it exists among the people, despite its being so morally... deficient.

Thank you Yank

Morally Deficient

it most certainly is

Babba Zee. With your linking skills why don't you "probe" this Jack Shaheen fellow and bring him out into the light of day from his shadow world. There is enough info in #72 to get you started. Sami Al Arian was an SIU-C student when Jack Shaheen was just starting to gain some academic fame and stretch his reach and influence.

BabbaZee,

No problem at all. "You're like the AP" - them's fightin' words.

#88 BabbaZee 1/13/2007 10:58AM PST

Yank:

To answer your question, those who are "not" do not take a decided stance. It's viewed as part of "foreign policy."

You can not win a war with out a "decided stance"

Amen

#91 gymnast
Looks worth while, I will do that.

#92 Yank in the EU
I guess they are...
but now that you clarified
sorry once again

#83, realwest. I hope so.

#46 BabbaZee
Got it. Wonderful. Great post...puts, concisely, all the other research I've been doing...and even has a plan of action at the end of the post! :)
(Did you ever find out about Biram? --if what Elias Chacour wrote, in his book "Blood Brothers", is an accurate description of how that village was lost to his family?)

LOL

So far so bad:

Dr. Jack G. Shaheen, is a committed internationalist and a devoted humanist.

ROTF

...working on the "international humanist".

Will have to come back here tonight and post results, I am gone in about 10 minutes.

#96 Ma Sands
No I have not found anything more out yet...

So let me get this straight:

We arrest, deport and/or imprison people for raising money for Hamas, Hezbollah, and their ilk, but we as a nation give money to Hamas, Hezbollah and their ilk.

Okay, I get it.

/not

#98 BabbaZee

By any chance, do you know of any good links to 'Hatikva' or 'Yerushalayem Shel Zahav'? These are very nice songs and no record stores have them in Belgium (big surprise). No problem if not.

#100 Yank in the EU 1/13/2007 11:14AM PST

#98 BabbaZee

By any chance, do you know of any good links to 'Hatikva' or 'Yerushalayem Shel Zahav'? These are very nice songs and no record stores have them in Belgium (big surprise). No problem if not.

Could always use Limewire :-)

#101 Elric

Thanks, heading there now ;)

#45 shug
Just sent them an e-mail, asking them to correct such. :)

Gymnast ~

shadowy organization #1

"Progressive Media Project"
starring Shaheen and a cast of Elitist Whores of the Caliphate.

You are right.
This one is deep.

It may be a few days...

Elric

Oh I see, it's a P2P thing. My university won't allow any type of file-sharing program to go online. That's a policy I would support, however.

#100 Yank in the EU

Warning: this one is heart rending
[Link: www.isracast.com...]

#105 Yank in the EU 1/13/2007 11:18AM PST

Elric

Oh I see, it's a P2P thing. My university won't allow any type of file-sharing program to go online. That's a policy I would support, however.

Just thought I would help you get a song you couldnt get any other way. :-)

Yank:

Gotta go~

See you later Lizardia

#106 BabbaZee

Wow, thank you very much - I'm psyched to hear all of them.

Moderately terrorist.
Moderately pregnant.
Moderately nazi.
Moderately Pelosi.
Moderately drinking. (aka Kennedy, Grant)
Moderately sex-addict.

And iran is going moderately nuclear.

/how is my re-education going ? call 1-800-commiebootcamp and tell my Teacher !

//ah the sadness...I have to put a sarc tag...

#104, Babba Zee. Deeper than you can ever imagine. The first Muslim to get a degree from SIU-C was a fellow with the family name Jaber, his old man was the Prime Minister of Iraq. That was about 1947. The ball has been rolling in Carbondale ever since. The history of that family in Southern Illinois when they returned during the late 70s and 80s would make an interesting book. They showed up and built a fenced compound patrolled 24 hours a day by armed security shortly after Saddam was reaching the top rung in Iraq. They also bought the Hays Family estate inside the DuQuoin State Fairgrounds and the DuQuoin State Bank.They left Southern Illinois suddenly and and now reside in the UK as far as I know.

Hi all.

Just a note this time, on a flythrough.

One thing I've noticed about the media is that the word "moderate" hasn't meant anything for a very long time.

Consider the following persons referred to as "moderate":

The "Blue Dog" Democrats
Keith Ellison (who refuses to state affirmatively that he will not fight to make American law more in line with Shariah)
John McCain
Arlen Specter
Dianne Feinstein
Mary Landrieu and Olympia Snowe
Joe Biden

If you look here, you'll see two persons referred to as "moderate" because of their semi- to full pro-choice positions.

When someone is referred to by the press as "moderate" it mostly translates to "This person is a liberal, but we know you folks don't like liberals, so we're going to call them 'moderates.'"

#112 gymnast

...got it - added to the "database" of info for this searching project.

Thanks again ~ will let Lizardia know what I find

/see you all tomorrow

Moderte is a relative term. For example, a .380 is much more "moderate" than a .45 caliber, and more easily concealed. In that sense many Palestineans such as Abbas are moderate.

Moderate. My Man, The Reverend Al Sharpton uses that word to describe himself and he finds it far more progressive than when the Media uses the more accurate and tedious "Racist race whore, tin horn collection plate grabbin', insult to organized religion,would be preach and music promoter". Al likes to think of himself, and be referred to, as a "moderate progressive" A "Moderate Centrist Democrat" and shit like that. The Rev thinks it sounds more dignified.

"Moderate" Becomes a Meaningless Word

Hell, I knew that a long time ago, about the time I started insisting I drink only in "moderation".

#12 friarstale

Thats not bad...not bad at all.

But I have to admit that I am a SIG fan.

Those 229s, 226s,and many others are mouth-watering fun to fire...

(I can just hear the trolls cringing in a collective gasp at the notion that I like to go to the range...and actually fire...)

Save Abbas.

Save the World.

wtf?

President Bush has lost his mind.

#65 Ed Mahmoud abu al Qahool Martyr Brigades

Does david Duke even have a PhD, and from what university? I know he was an undergrad at LSU, and marched around in Nazi uniforms.

Abbas' "PhD" came from a 'university' in the Soviet Union.

Sheesh!
Everyone knows Duke's PhD was "earned" from MAUP.

Hear a moderate muslim call in to CSPAN

The cannibal's cell mate, who is merely a serial killer, can be seen as a relative 'moderate'.

OK is it just me, or did all of the font sizes just go HUGE?

Palestinians are not muslims.

124 shug 1/13/2007 01:05PM PST

OK is it just me, or did all of the font sizes just go HUGE

Isn't it wonderful!
Tech update on above thread.

OT:

Doomsday clock to move closer to nuclear Armageddon

Thank God I moved far away from there years ago.

Just a detail, but has anyone noticed what Saddam has already become in AP lingo?

The "late former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein"

Abu Mazen is a moderate.
Osama Bin Laden is a radical.
Bush is a conservative.

Orwell was a piker.

#129 Muck DeFuslims

And Democrats are Progressives.

#70 mik
your one funny dude.
what color is the sky on your planet?

Well, you wouldn't expect our wonderful oil-rich Arab friends like the Saudi's to give money to their brethren Palestinians, would you? Bush knows that the Saudi's need to use all their oil money to build mosques and Muslim schools around the world to install clerics to teach the masses hatred to the West and the necessity of either killing or converting all the Infidels.

You see, while Hamas wants all out genocide of the Jews, Abbas blieves in murdering Jews a little at a time. He prefers death by a thousand slashes rather than all out war. That is what makes him a moderate in the left wing media and government circles. You see, the State Department can deal with a moderate Jew killer like Abbas. He is a man they can deal with.

One thing the world can always deal with is a Jew killer. A Jew killer is never a bad person. One must have a moderate temperment to kill Jews.

#49 yah:

I am beginning to think he [Bush] is as dumb as the left says he is. God help us and deliver us a leader that is not a politician but a true statesman.

I think Giuliani shows a lot of promise. He cleaned up New York, he can clean up Iraq.

But conservatives are going to have to decide, once and for all, which is more important: Stopping Islamic terrorism--or stopping abortion.

Because Giuliani will do the former but not necessarily the latter.

That's some quagmire:

BAGRAM, Afghanistan - An Afghan insurgent leader operating from inside Pakistan sent some 200 ill-equipped fighters, some wearing plastic bags on their feet, into Afghanistan where most were killed in a major battle this week, a top U.S. general said Saturday,

Maj. Gen. Benjamin Freakley said that Jalaluddin Haqqani recruited and sent unemployed and untrained men to fight in Afghanistan.

U.S. forces killed about 130 fighters moving in two groups in the eastern province of Paktika late Wednesday and early Thursday, one of the largest winter battles in Afghanistan since the fall of the Taliban in 2001.

"There's Taliban leaders in Pakistan," Freakley said. "We know that this group ... were from Jalaluddin Haqqani and we believe, though we don't know exactly where, that Jalaluddin Haqqani is operating from inside Pakistan and sending men to fight in Afghanistan."

..."It is clear to me that some of these men were just either collected in a poor part of a village or perhaps from a madrassa or perhaps from a refugee camp and told to come fight," he said. "The message to the enemies of Afghanistan and the enemies of world peace would be that you can come at us with two people, 20 people, 200 people, 2,000 people, you'll be defeated and your young men will needlessly be killed."

And yet the pundits keep telling us the war in Afghanistan is unwinnable. The Taliban are sending young ignorant men with plastic bags on their feet up against modern Western armies and F16's. Fatality ratio: 130 to zero. Yup, that's a quagmire.

"moderate" is the left's get-out-of-thinking card.

#63 loFlyer:

I am starting to think that US government and the Bush admin is totaly wrong on who our enemies are in "the war on terror".

Of course, and it stems from Bush's refusal to address the issue of radical Islam itself.

I have a simple rule of thumb:

The more fundamentalist Muslims you've got, the worse off you are.

In that sense, Saudi Arabia's extreme brand of Wahhabist fundamentalist Islam makes them a real ideological threat.

But it also means that Saddam was LESS of a threat in the long run than Ahmedinijad. Because Saddam was more of a secular dictator who paid lip service to Islam. But unlike Ahmedinijad, Saddam didn't claim he was the 12th imam or look forward to a glorious nuclear death. Saddam was more rational, whereas Ahmedinijad is just completely crazy with this radical Islamist claptrap.

And that didn't jibe with the Bush Administration's (mistaken) belief that Saddam was such a huge immediate terrorist threat to America.

Charles:

Its your site & I hope I am not over stepping my bounds by my suggestion but:

You should "update" this thread with a comment on and link to the thread from last week were "moderate" Abbas (Abu Mazen), said that "all Palestinian weapons should be directed at "the occupation" & never against other "palestinians".

It will bring a lot of necessary information to the thread about the utter stupidity of the U.S. State Departments decision.

I am sure most here get it but, the clearer it is the better...right?

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Now, I would hope that everyone that read this will, if they haven't already, send a letter to State, & your congresspeople telling them NOT to release money for this purpose as Abbas (Abu Mazen) only last week said he will not use these weapons against Hamas as the State Department intends.

#140 WrathofG-d
...to Keith Ellison...? ):

Ma Sands:

Especially Keith Ellison.

It was always questioned when Liberman was running for VP whether his election would be good or bad for Jews.

Good because he was one. But bad because he would probably go out of his way to prove that he was "an American 1st". (ie: vote against Jewish causes to prove he isnt' beholden to them)

Ellison could be made to do the same.

#142 WrathofG-d
Okay...thanks for proferring hope...will do. :)

As long as the self-hating Jewish Kapos who run the Israeli government keep supporting the arming of the PLO, it's kind of hard to fault the US for supplying the cash.

The US is kind of like the bartender who keeps pouring drinks for a self-destructive drunk until he gets into his car and drives into a tree.

The current Israeli policy of strengthening the PLO to supposedly hinder Hamas is just about as intelligent as the previous Israeli policy of strengthening Hamas to hinder the PLO.

That Israel can survive with such self-destructive leadership is such a miracle as to prove God's existence in and of itself.

OT, or maybe not:

Hamas website claims it is "under attack" by Zionist hackers!

Keep up the good work, Internet Haganah!

Abbas has received thousands of rifles courtesy of the US and Israel. So now he says:
"Raise rifles against the Israeli occupation".
[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com...]
Doesn't everyone know that the targets that the rifles will be used for will be Israelis? Abbas doesn't hide that fact, so why is there such delusion among the wishful thinkers?

re #146

Abbas' call to arms was not reported by most major media outlets featuring articles on the PA leader's speech.

His statements about using rifles against Israel come after the United States, aided by Ehud Olmert, over the last few weeks provided 7,000 assault rifles and more than 1 million rounds of ammunition to militias associated with Abbas' Fatah party, according to senior Fatah militants.

re #146

In Thursday' speech, Abbas went on to praise late Hamas spiritual leaderAhmed Yassin, who was assassinated by Israel in March 2004.

He also used Quranic verses to claim Jews are corrupting the world.

"The sons of Israel are mentioned as those who are corrupting humanity on earth," Abbas said during a portion of his speech in which he criticized recent Israeli anti-terror raids in northern Samaria.

re #146

Abu Yousuf, a Fatah militant from Abbas' Force 17 security forces, told WND while some of the weapons may be used in confrontations against Hamas, the bulk of the American arms would be utilized to "hit the Zionists."

He said if there is a major conflict with Israel, U.S. weapons provided to Fatah may be shared with other "Palestinian resistance organizations."

Abbas' message is pretty much understand by his troops.

Wishful thinking and self-censorship prevents its being understood also by America and Israel.

Wrath:
Lieberman grew up being taught and believing that he should tell the truth. Ten Commandments and all. Ellison's religion doesn't ask for the truth. They are given permission to lie to the infidel.

He made quite a big deal about being able to use the Koran to be sworn in with...when it would have been more than acceptable to not use even the Bible for his oath. I don't believe for a second he could be persuaded to 'promise' to go out of his way...with all Islam back at home in Minnesota watching...what will he be actually be able to do?

Isn't Minnesota the state that had that wrestler for Govenor? Jesse Ventura or something? Must be something in their water...My son has lived in Minneapolis now for 2 1/2 years, and I find out that he is watching Keith Olbermann. Gotta get him back to a really red state...

re #146

But the Fatah militant said the new American weapons may also be used to target Israelis.

"If Israel will deliver what it promised to Abu Mazen (Abbas), [meaning a] withdrawal from Palestinian lands, including east Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, remove all the checkpoints in the West Bank, release our prisoners, and find a clear solution for our refugees, we'll control our forces and the distribution of weapons.

"But if Israel doesn't deliver, and we find ourselves manipulated by Israel, we cannot guarantee members of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades and Force 17 will not use these weapons against Israel. Our goal is to change the occupation," said Abu Yousuf.

"It's unnatural to think these American weapons won't be used against the Israelis," he said.

Like some other Force 17 members, Abu Yousuf is openly also a member of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.

The Brigades, together with Islamic Jihad, has taken responsibility for every suicide bombing in Israel over the past two years, including an attack in Tel Aviv in April that killed American teenager Daniel Wultz and nine Israelis. The Brigades also has carried out scores of deadly shooting and rocket attacks against Israeli civilians in recent months.

All Brigades leaders are also members of Fatah. Abbas last June appointed senior Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades leader Mahmoud Damra as commander of Force 17. Damra, who was arrested by Israel in November, was on the Jewish state's most-wanted list of terrorists.

Abu Yousuf said the American weapons shipments may be shared with other terror groups. He said that during large confrontations with Israel, such as the Jewish state's 2002 anti-terror raid in Jenin, Fatah distributed weapons to Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

"We don't look where this piece or that piece of weapon came from when fighting the Israelis," Abu Yousuf said.

He also pointed to what he said was Hamas' infiltration of some of Fatah's security forces as a possible mechanism Hamas can use to obtain Fatah's American-supplied weapons.

"Our organizations are infiltrated (by Hamas). In the last elections campaign, our Fatah party was astonished at how many of our security members voted for Hamas – we thought our own forces would vote 95 percent vote for us, but it was 70 percent for Fatah and 30 percent for Hamas," Abu Yousuf said.

A senior Fatah security official, speaking Friday to WND on condition his name be withheld, says Fatah has a "significant problem" of its militia members in Gaza joining Hamas.

Sources close to Hamas said the Fatah militants, including members of Force 17, worked with Hamas after receiving larger paychecks from the terror group.

"When they join Hamas, they bring along their new weapons," said a Hamas source.

During a WND interview earlier this week, Hamas spokesman Abu Oubaida told WND his terror group will obtain any American weapons transferred to Fatah militias or purchased by Fatah using the incoming $86.4 million in U.S. aid.

"I am sure that like in the past, this $86 million from America will find its way to the Hamas resistance via the honorable persons in the Fatah security organizations, including in Force 17. I can confirm 100 percent that this money and purchased weapons will find its way to Hamas," said Abu Oubaida.

The Fatah and Pali Authority and Abbas demand that there be a "right of return" means that millions of Arabs who were not born in Israel would flood into Israel. The result would be a civil war and terrorism on a scale that would dwarf the terrorism of Intifada II. The Muslim birth rate is advantageous to them, so it would not be long before Israel ceased being a Jewish state and it became an Arab state.

Two of the obvious ways to get rid of Israel as a Jewish state are by the sword and by the womb. The "right of return" would provide a combination of these to get rid of Israel as a Jewish state.

Abbas says that Fatah will never yield on its demand for the "right of return", nor will Fatah ever approve of the descendants of refugees being absorbed into the countries in which they now live. That is, Abbas will always consider Fatah and the PLO and himself to be at war against Israel.

re #146

Meanwhile, Abu Abdullah, considered one of the most important operational members of Hamas' so-called military wing, told WND the U.S. aid and weapons shipments have prompted an arms race amongst the various Arab terror groups.

The Hamas leader said weapons procured as a result of the U.S. shipment will be used against Israel.

"The more the Americans give Abu Mazen (Abbas) weapons, the more we will have in the future weapons to use against the Israelis, because it incites the different organizations to intensify their own supply of weapons," said Abu Abdullah of Hamas' Izzedine al-Qassam Martyrs Brigades, Hamas' declared "resistance" department.

According to PA security sources, the increased drive by Hamas to obtain new weapons has raised the price of arms in Egypt and Jordan.

"An M-16 that sold for 6,000 Jordanian dinar now is worth 10,000 dinar, because Hamas is trying to get more weapons," the source told WND.

Like Hamas spokesman Abu Oubaida, Hamas' Abu Abdullah said U.S. weapons to Fatah would eventually fall into the hands of Hamas:

"These American weapons will be one day the property of all the Palestinian people and its resistance, including Hamas," Abu Abdullah said. "The U.S. gives weapons to Fatah during internal Palestinian clashes, but one day when we go back to carrying out operations together, these [weapons] will be shared."

Just starting thread here, so I know I'm not being very original, BUT...

Charles, you nailed it.

I can barely stand to even glance at the newspapers anymore. They are so full of s**t and have debased the English language even further than the word s**t does.

In fact, s**t serves a useful function in the great circle of life, but debasing the English language only makes people more stupid and ignorant than they already are.

Abbas is not a moderate. He is a terrorist leader.

/End rant

Now, I'm scared: Rice set for key Mid-East meeting

Ms Rice will see Mr Abbas in Ramallah, a day after saying a "creative" solution is needed to end the conflict...

What in the fuck is wrong with Bush? What happened to "you're either with us or against us?" What a lame duck. Olmert, we know what he is at least. A spineless career politician who will sell out his own mother to get ahead.

"Ellison's religion doesn't ask for the truth. They are given permission to lie to the infidel."

The citizens of Minnesota should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this piece of SLIME to be elected! And the Democratic Party that backed him with their money should be held accountable. Please tell me, "What the Hell is wrong with you idiots?" Don't you see what's happening?

The purpose of the money is to ensure the Palis can fight Hamas better.

i.e. fuel the Pali Civil War.

A good investment.

It is long past time to take a hard look at who is working for whom in the current Administration, especially in Middle East Policy.

Start with the Carlyle Group, an international consortium of very rich investors -- that until 9/12/01 included the Bin-Laden Family.

It is run by James E. Baker III and former Pres. George H.W. Bush, and is collectively very very deeply invested in Saudi Arabia.

Condoleeza Rice worked for the Carlyle Group before being moved into government, and is the protege and go-fer for Baker and Brent Scowcroft.

She runs the State Department on their behalf, not in the best interests of the United States.

President Bush is formally her boss, but look at the record and it seems largely the other way around.

And ask: Why did George W. Bush get the presidential nomination in 2000?

1. Because of his long record of distinguished public service?

2. Because of his brilliant intellect and majestic oratory?

3. Because he had more money to spend than any other candidate to get the nomination?

4. In case the answer is (3), then who put up the money and what did they expect to get for it?

send that slimy f*ck Sean McCormack-whatever, over to Palyland with the whole 86 million in cash for him to distribute and see how'll he feel afterwards.

Someday, the lame theories of the State Dept will stop determining policy.

“It’s needed, and we think it’s an important part of helping to build up responsible security forces that report directly to president Abbas,” he told reporters.

Please define "responsible security forces" in this instance.

Mideast training program backfires
Palestinian security officers schooled by U.S. later used tactics against Israel

Matthew Kalman, Chronicle Foreign Service

Monday, February 14, 2005

In June 1998, somewhere near CIA headquarters in Langley, Va., two rows of men in military fatigues posed for their graduation photo.

All of them were officers in Palestinian General Intelligence Service, charged with hunting down terrorists and preventing attacks on Israel. They had just completed a training course, paid for by the U.S. government, in which they learned firearms and counterterrorist tactics.

But the graduation photo holds a stark warning for the Bush administration as it gets more involved in Middle East peacemaking. Some of the men in the picture later swapped sides and began using the skills they learned in Virginia against the Israelis.

[SNIP]

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it

I don't understand. I thought Hamas won the elections? Why is Abbas still in power?

100 rockets fired at Israel, and it's called a "ceasefire" to prevent Israel from defending itself by eliminating the sources of the rocket fire.
[Link: www.jpost.com...]