Little Green Footballs - Media Blackout: "I Shot the Non-Muslim"

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Media Blackout: "I Shot the Non-Muslim"

Sat, Jan 20, 2007 at 10:52:50 am PST

The assassination of Turkish-Armenian writer Hrant Dink is being universally portrayed as ethnic strife, a political act by Turkish nationalists against an Armenian critic.

Call me Mr. Suspicious, but when I see the entire media monolith pushing an idea like that with so much enthusiasm, I start looking for the real explanation.

And the real explanation, as with so many of these media smokescreens, is jihad. Turkish-Armenian editor shot dead in Istanbul. (Hat tip: Paul.)

NTV television said Dink had been shot three times in the head and neck.

Muharrem Gozutok, a restaurant owner near the newspaper, said the assailant looked about 20, wore jeans and a cap and shouted “I shot the non-Muslim” as he left the scene.

This little piece of essential information is now being excised from all wire service and media reports.

You won’t find it in the latest version of the Reuters report above: Turkish-Armenian editor shot dead in Istanbul.

You won’t find it in the Associated Press version: Turkey Shocked by Slaying of Journalist.

You won’t find it at CNN: Journalist’s killing shocks Turkey.

You won’t find it in the Washington Post: Outspoken Editor Is Slain in Turkey.

You won’t find it in the Los Angeles Times: Journalist slain in Turkey.

And you sure won’t find it in the New York Times: Armenian Editor Is Slain in Turkey.

A video grab released by Turkish police shows an image of a man suspected of killing journalist Hrant Dink, one of Turkey’s most prominent ethnic Armenians, as the government came under fire for failing to protect him despite nationalist threats.

UPDATE at 1/20/07 11:35:18 am:

You will find it in the UK’s Telegraph, which also provides a slightly better translation: Turkish journalist who spoke up for Armenians is shot dead in the street.

Witnesses said the assailant was a teenager wearing a white cap and jeans. “He shouted ‘I shot the infidel’ as he ran away,” said Muharrem Gozutok, a restaurant owner.

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Tags: Turkey, Islam, RoP, Armenia, Jihad

83 comments

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MandyManners Sat, Jan 20, 2007 8:54:22am

Remove your heads from your butts, MSM.

mbruce Sat, Jan 20, 2007 8:55:14am

THey do not want to ,Mandy, they like it in there, smells like...jihad...

William Sat, Jan 20, 2007 8:55:17am

Wanna place bets the killer actually said:

"I shot the kaffir!"

Or:

"I shot the infidel!"

taxfreekiller[deleted] Sat, Jan 20, 2007 8:55:41am

Abu Maven Sat, Jan 20, 2007 8:57:32am

Charles... silly Charles...

The real reason is Bush's war against Iraq... and Israel. Shame on you, Charles.

/moonbat

Geepers Sat, Jan 20, 2007 8:58:25am

Palestinian Chief, Hamas in Unity Talks

(AP) Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas was in Syria on Saturday for crucial talks with Hamas' exiled leader on forming a national unity government and ending months of Palestinian infighting that has claimed at least 62 lives.
There were hopes that the meeting _ the first between Abbas and Khaled Mashaal since July 2005 _ could end the bitter rivalry and a yearlong political deadlock between the militant Hamas, which controls the Palestinian parliament and Cabinet, and the president's more moderate Fatah.

62 dead. Yeah, that's a pretty "bitter" rivalry.

LOL. The media is a joke.

jrdroll Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:01:13am

“I shot the non-Muslim”

Gulf Times

Ward Cleaver Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:01:43am

More like "I shot the Kuffar".

Not exactly Eric Clapton material.

MandyManners Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:02:26am

2 mbruce

Ugh. You're right.

bob tail Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:02:52am

Wellcom to the EU, Turkey

Ward Cleaver Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:03:06am

He looks like Justin Timberlake.

jrdroll Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:03:47am

"I shot the non-Muslim."

South Korea

ridersinthesky Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:05:05am

Right on target everyboy.

"He shouted 'I shot the infidel' as he ran away," said Muharrem Gozutok, a restaurant owner.

Link: [Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

TxMarko Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:05:08am

Ignore that man behind the curtain !

bob tail Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:05:44am

#1 Mandy,

Remove your heads from your butts, MSM.

I'm afraid they've got nothing but butts

taxfreekiller[deleted] Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:06:14am

truthteller Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:06:57am

It's sad. Compared to most of the Muslim world, Turkey is a haven of religious pluralism and rationality. Of course, that's a pretty easy contest to win when your competition includes Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan.

ridersinthesky Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:07:01am

"everyboy" - ahem. And everygal. And all the -bodies too.

bob tail Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:07:24am

I'm not gonna eat Falafel today by the Turks around the corner

Ojoe Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:08:45am

Well. This pan-islamisim is a worldwide existential threat.

& Hillary just announced running for president.

Maybe that is a good idea:

1.She is a vicious B. capable of anything

2. GWB is basically a nice guy.

3. If Hillary is president the MSM will shut the F up and let her get the job done.

4. We are all non-muslims on this bus.

bob tail Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:09:30am

# 17 truthteller

It's sad. Compared to most of the Muslim world, Turkey is a haven of religious pluralism and rationality. Of course, that's a pretty easy contest to win when your competition includes Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan.

It seems you don't really know what you're talking about. Anyway, I don't wish you such a religious paradise as Turkey!

strandedsf Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:12:19am

1. The EU are hypocrites. Dropping the ban on speech regarding the Armenian genocide has been set forth as a "condition" of Turkey's admission to the EU. Why should Turkey not ban such speech when the EU has its own PC speech codes?
2. Turkey will never get into the EU. Ataturk's grand experiment in forced Westernization is an abject failure. Jihad will triumph.
3. This poor guy is just another victim of a European culture that simple refuses to defend itself against same, surrendering to jihadi thuggery.

Ferris Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:13:26am

No wonder CAIR is upset that the bad buys on 24 are practitioners of the Religion of Peace. I mean, where would anyone possibly get the idea that Muslims around the world are involved in terrorism and political violence?

Certainly not from the MSM.

RTLM Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:13:27am

Turkey is going down the toilet. (if it wasn't there already) Only a matter of time before an islamist gov't takes hold.

Sharia far all.

Then the Euros will let'em in the EU

friarstale Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:17:37am

Islam is not a religion spread by force and threats, it's merely a cute little ethnic group

oh, and please don't bring your ethnic Bible into Saudi Arabia, the home of the ethnic group, or you will be beheaded promptly

lawhawk Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:17:51am

Are we sure that the guy called him a non-Muslim and not the more generic term infidel?

Geepers:
Bitter struggle indeed. Then again, all those assassination attempts against the leadership of the other thuggists and terrorists can't be completely ignored.

truthteller Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:21:20am

#21 bob tail

Please read my post. My point is not that Turkey is anywhere close to the West in terms of either rationality or pluralism, but that it is far ahead of almost every other Muslim-majority country. If you don't know that, then all I can do is hope that whatever you're smoking is legal wherever you're smoking it.

friarstale Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:21:29am

20 ojoe
yeah, maybe Hillary can get tough with Ahmadinejead like she got tough with David Koresch in Waco, Texas
[Link: video.google.co.uk...]

Michael in MI Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:22:09am

Many have already brought it up, thankfully, but I immediately thought the same thing: more than likely he did not say "non-Muslim", but rather "infidel" or "kuffar" (sp?).

I see that someone provided links to where someone said he stated "I shot the infidel".

Sir Lurksalot Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:22:48am

I blame Jack Bauer

truthteller Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:24:38am

#24 RTLM

Turkey is going down the toilet. (if it wasn't there already) Only a matter of time before an islamist gov't takes hold.

Umm. They've been in power for nearly four years already.

MandyManners Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:26:51am

What a bunch of gloomy gusses we are today! I prescribe this and one of these.

beens21 Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:29:32am

[Link: news.yahoo.com...] way ot, but how soon will these completely unsubstantiated comments be treated as the 'truth' in MSM, and fem and race cards played.

ec marm Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:30:55am

#32 MandyManners

What a bunch of gloomy gusses we are today!

I was just thinking that. It's like an argument over which turd stinks the least. This might put a smile on some lgf faces.

carbon footprint Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:31:22am

'This little piece of essential information is now being excised from all wire service and media reports.'

Kind of like this little piece of essential information has been excised from Turkish history for almost a century.

MandyManners Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:33:13am

34 ec marm

LOL! It put a big grin on my face.

MSMediaCritic Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:38:59am

Nothing to see here, move along.

-Frank Drebin
Police Squad

Investigating the murder ... I mean death... I mean probable suicide...

filetandrelease Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:39:38am

The list of those killed by the RoP grows larger daily. CAIR's condemnation coming in 6,5,4,...

jamil hussein Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:42:46am

Notice the writing style when an infidel is killed. Dry, matter of fact. No kerosene doused bodies, no charred mosques afterwards.

LC LaWedgie Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:45:53am

#38 filetandrelease -
Decades or lifetimes?

Hide & watch.

Mike C. Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:46:49am

How Arafat Got Away with Murder

By Scott Johnson of Power Line, yet.

RedPepper Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:47:16am

Hmmm.

Sounds to me like another Friday sermon at the mosque was a home run ...

Geepers Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:47:23am

Bacteria are unicellular microorganisms. They are typically a few micrometres long and have many different shapes including spheres, rods and spirals. The study of bacteria is bacteriology, a branch of microbiology. Bacteria are ubiquitous, living in every possible habitat on the planet including soil, underwater, deep in the earth's crust and even such environments as acidic hot springs and radioactive waste. In all, there are around five nonillion (5 × 10³⁰) bacteria in the world. There are 10 times more bacterial cells than human cells in the human body, with large numbers of bacteria on the skin and in the digestive tract. Although the vast majority of these bacteria are harmless or beneficial, a few pathogenic bacteria cause
infectious diseases, including cholera, syphilis, anthrax, leprosy and bubonic plague. The most common bacterial disease is tuberculosis, which kills about 2 million people a year, mostly in sub-Saharan Africa. Bacteria are prokaryotes and, unlike animals and other eukaryotes, bacterial cells do not contain a nucleus or other membrane-bound organelles. Although the term bacteria has traditionally been generally applied to all prokaryotes, the scientific nomenclature changed after the discovery that prokaryotic life consists of two very different groups of organisms that evolved independently from an ancient common ancestor.

EtNorskTroll Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:50:01am

If your source says "Allah Au Akbar!"
--delete the source

~Norsk Troll

IAF Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:50:44am

Heard about this last night. The is a read dicotomy between the state and the people in turkey. The state which in turn is controlled by the military. Any semblence of democracy there is a mere farce. I am sure incidents like this will only isolate Turkey.
The likelyhood that this guy was shot by some one realated to the Turkish authorities is extreemly high!

bob tail Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:53:46am

To #27 truthteller

Please read my post. My point is not that Turkey is anywhere close to the West in terms of either rationality or pluralism, but that it is far ahead of almost every other Muslim-majority country. If you don't know that, then all I can do is hope that whatever you're smoking is legal wherever you're smoking it.

I hope you don't know from your own experience what does it mean to get caught rolling and smoking a joint in Turkey ...

Poitiers-Lepanto Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:55:15am

#43 Geepers

there are around five nonillion (5 × 10³⁰) bacteria in the world

We definitely can't kill them all.

Fjordman Sat, Jan 20, 2007 9:58:10am

Turkey is a nice, moderate country. The NYT tells me so.

RedPepper Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:00:59am

Fjordman #48:

Turkey is a nice, moderate country.

Looking more like Europe every day ... isn't it!

ec marm Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:02:02am

Helicopter crash in Baghdad, 13 troops killed. FNC

CrimsonFisted Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:02:58am

#11 Ward Cleaver
He looks like Justin Timberlake.

Wow, yes he does.

Mike C. Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:03:34am

# 43 Geepers

Figure a way to get rid of a significant fraction of those bacteria we're all lugging around, and you would get rich marketing it as a weight loss method.

Beagle Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:04:05am

He probably used "kuffar."

Fight them [ O Believers!] and God will punish them with your hands and humiliate them and help you to victory over them. (9:14)

They tell us they're going to kill us and enslave us, they act on it, then tell us they did it.

The the media spins reality into a prefabricated western story which will allow us to go back to American Idol, David Beckham, and the latest entertainmurder - preferably one committed by a white person against another white person, best if pretty.

DP111 Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:05:36am

First reports on the debate in London between Daniel Pipes and Ken Livingston give an emphatic win for Daniel Pipes.

[Link: uppompeii.blogspot.com...]

bob tail Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:06:52am

To Fjordman #48

Turkey is a nice, moderate country. The NYT tells me so.

Try once the Turkish Jail - and don't forget to take with you bunch of medicine jelly

J.D. Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:07:25am

#50 ec marm

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A U.S. Blackhawk helicopter came down northeast of Baghdad on Saturday afternoon, killing all 13 soldiers aboard in one of the deadliest single incidents for U.S. forces since the 2003 invasion of
Iraq.

Residents near Baquba, in violent Diyala province, said they saw a helicopter in flames in the air but a military spokeswoman said it was not clear whether the aircraft was shot down.

A total of 16 U.S. troop deaths were reported on Saturday, the bloodiest day in Iraq for U.S. forces since
President George W. Bush announced an increase in troop numbers that has run into resistance from opposition Democrats now controlling Congress.

Dozens of helicopters have crashed in Iraq over the past four years, a number shot down by insurgents. The area northeast of Baghdad is one where fighting has been intense between U.S. forces and guerrillas.

"A U.S. forces helicopter went down northeast of Baghdad ... Emergency Coalition Forces responded and secured the scene. Thirteen passengers and crew members were aboard the aircraft and all were killed," the U.S. military said in a statement.

A military source indicated the helicopter was a Blackhawk, widely used for transport in Iraq. It carries four crew and up to 10 passengers.

House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi (news, bio, voting record), a Democrat, accused Bush on Friday of playing politics with soldiers' lives. Bush said 10 days ago he was sending 21,500 extra troops, most of them to Baghdad, to avert an all-out sectarian civil war between once-dominant minority Sunni Arabs and Shi'ite Muslims. ...

U.S. helicopter down in Iraq, all 13 aboard dead

J.D. Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:12:46am

Activist slain in Iraq 'was an idealist'
Ohio native Andrea Parhamovich went to Baghdad for reasons of the heart and to teach tenets of democracy.

BAGHDAD — On their first date, Michael Hastings and Andrea Parhamovich met for milkshakes.

Fifteen months later, she followed him to Iraq.

Hastings hoped they would spend their lives together.

But on Wednesday, Parhamovich died in a hail of bullets, ambushed outside a Sunni Arab political office in Baghdad.

Sunni Muslim insurgents linked to Al Qaeda in Iraq claimed responsibility Thursday for the attack that took the lives of the 28-year-old and three bodyguards — a Hungarian, a Croat and an Iraqi. Two other security workers were wounded. None of these other victims' names had been released.

"She was an idealist," Hastings said of Parhamovich, who grew up in Perry, Ohio. "She always believed that people were good. Certainly, those ideals were put to the test when she came to Iraq."

Parhamovich, known as Andi, followed heart and ideals when she came to Baghdad. Hastings, a reporter with Newsweek, was working in Iraq. But Parhamovich was also drawn to political work in Baghdad, teaching Iraqis about voting and how to establish a functional government.

She worked first for the International Republican Institute, joining the National Democratic Institute a few months later.

On Wednesday, Parhamovich had gone to meet a group of Sunni politicians from the Iraqi Islamic Party. "She was really excited about the meeting," Hastings said.

The party headquarters is in Yarmouk, a west Baghdad neighborhood where shootings and executions are common.

After Parhamovich conducted her training seminar for the Sunni politicians, she left in a convoy with her armed guards. Moments later, the convoy was ambushed. The guards fought back but were outgunned by the attackers, whose arsenal included grenades.

"With God's assistance, we have succeeded in the destruction of two SUV vehicles belonging to the Zionist Mossad, killing all who were in them, attacking them by light and medium weapons," wrote the group that took responsibility, in a statement on a well-known Sunni insurgent website.

The group often refers to its targets as members of Israel's intelligence service.

But in fact, Hastings said, "they killed a wonderful, unarmed girl."

After graduating from Marietta College in Ohio, Parhamovich worked in the Massachusetts governor's office. In 2005, she got a job doing fundraising and publicity for Air America.

"Working for a liberal radio network wasn't enough," said Jamie Horn, who worked with Parhamovich at Air America. "She had to go to the heart of the war and create change and understanding. She was so obstinate in her efforts to create change. Nothing could stop her."
...

somaking Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:18:20am

A classic whitewash.

Soon there will be a trend of framing jihadists as "nationalists". It doesn't sound quite so distasteful, and prepares us for the invasion.

yah Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:19:18am

39 jamil hussein 1/20/2007 11:42AM PST

Notice the writing style when an infidel is killed. Dry, matter of fact. No kerosene doused bodies, no charred mosques afterwards.

I did not notice until you pointed it out.
And where are all the photos of his grieving wife and family? And no shrieking scenes on TV.

pdogg Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:27:46am

He was running through the streets shouting "I shot the non-muslim." I wonder what word he used for "non-muslim." "Anyways, I bet he will blab to all his friends ~~and the Istanbul police will crack the case~~.

Dr. Manhattan Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:32:59am

When I sent that story to you yesterday, Charles, I never would have seen it from that angle. it seemed a cut and dry case of nationalistic suppression of the armenians (again).

But the story I read didn't have the quote included. The propaganda these days isn't so much in what they tell you, but what they DON'T. As Jesus said, let your yes be yes and you no be no, anything else is from "the dark one."

Half-truths are being the new truths.

DistantThunder Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:38:19am

The bias is criminal...and unforgivable...thank goodness for Charles and LGF

RoyalCanadian Sat, Jan 20, 2007 11:16:45am

The MSN has the integrity of a muslim negotiator, the sense of fairness of the UN Human Rights Council and the charm of an anal wart. Get used of it. Get around it. Forward the real news.

Highrise Sat, Jan 20, 2007 11:16:45am

Yup yup, the msm has a mental disease. They can't even report the truth about their "own" and stand up for their right to report and their safety. How odd they lack being able to call a spade a spade. They go out of their way to hide it..this is a great example.

Ojoe Sat, Jan 20, 2007 11:30:57am

28 friarstale

That was tragic, and done by underlings, but thnk of it as a trial run for the madrassas.

Daisy Sat, Jan 20, 2007 12:31:36pm

"This bullet was fired against Turkey ... an image has been created about Turkey that its Armenian citizens have no safety,” said CNN Turk editor Taha Akyol."

Oh really? Could that have anything ... at all .. to do w/the facts of Turkey's Islamist genocidal assault of the Armenians?

"Dink was one of dozens of writers who have been charged for insulting Turkishness, particularly over the alleged genocide of Armenians by Turks during World War I."

Alleged. Uh huh. Amazing how telling the simple truth always constitutes an insult to Islam. Europe is doomed. And I'm not at all happy to say it.

Merovign Sat, Jan 20, 2007 12:56:14pm

You know, people get mad when I say the Media are the Enemy, but what the hell are they if that's not it?

hiker Sat, Jan 20, 2007 1:28:58pm

#66 daisy

Actually, Turkey does (or, at least it did when I was there in the early 1970s) have a law criminalizing any insults to Turkey or its people. No kidding. When I was stationed in Turkey with the USAF a guy on our Flight (in the Air Force a Flight is a military unit, similar to a Company in the Army) was hauled off a bus by the local authorities for writing "Turkey Sucks" on a steamed up window. Our base commander had to get involved to get the guy released.

Cat Sat, Jan 20, 2007 1:50:08pm

THIS JUST IN: Turkish news sources are reporting that the guy who shot Dink is caught. In some other city in Turkey, don't know the name.

For all those lashing out against the use of alleged in the Armenian genocide: They're mostly fucktards, but don't forget there are some very well respected historians who disagree with calling it genocide, such as Bernard Lewis. He doesn't dispute that many Armenians were killed, but rather states that a lot of these deaths were the result of mutual conflict, with both Armenians killing Turks and Turks killing Armenians, and that the Ottoman Empire (which ISN'T the same thing as Turkey, for all intents and purposes) did force them to move in very harsh conditions with not enough precaution to prevent deaths (which is how a lot of the deaths happened), there is no real document (read: not FAKE, as some fakity fake documents were provided as well as a completely made up quote from Hitler saying "the Turks did it with Armenians, why can't I do the same thing to the Jews?" or something similar) that shows the government's intent to obliterate the Armenians, or kill as many of them as they could.

Genocide is a word that shouldn't be thrown around lightly, and I will admit that I don't know much about the topic but I respect Lewis very much as a historian, and I am inclined to believe him.

Cat Sat, Jan 20, 2007 1:53:44pm

#68 yeah, such laws still do exist, I believe. Dink was tried (and acquitted) in 2006 for "insulting Turkishness", whatever that means. There was a big brouhaha about it, seeing as it was the same law what the most recent Nobel Prize for literature winner Orhan Pamuk was also tried for. That is one crazy law, I tell you.

Cat Sat, Jan 20, 2007 2:18:12pm

Ok, so this is apparently one of the reports, but it is in Turkish so I don't know what it says. Heh. I suppose we'll have to wait until something English shows up.

paint-right Sat, Jan 20, 2007 2:18:52pm

I saw this and posted about it on an earlier thread.

As i was coming home tonight I looked iin the sky and there was a perfect crescent moon with a little planet to the lower right. Just what the death cult founder saw - just what the moon worshipping , Baal worshipping ,child sacrificing , ancestors of his saw. Those ancestors who rejected the real God and replaced him with a monster who asks for death , condones murder and rejoices in it. The father of lies. Lord of the flies.

I will go to church tomorrow where again we will hear of God's love, where we will pray for our enemies and where no one will ask us to kill.

illegal upchuck Sat, Jan 20, 2007 2:44:23pm

Sooo...

When can we expect a statement from CAIR disavowing the killer's intentions and stating it's not a case of Islamic terrorism?

inrussetshadows Sat, Jan 20, 2007 2:50:28pm

This isn't vigilante justice, but creeping Islamofascism, again. The killer didn't care about Turkey, but rather about slaughtering infidels. I really wonder if there is any hope for Muslims as a whole when no matter what country they're from, no matter how much education they possess, no matter how reasonable they seem, they end up doing things like this. The Koran is poison.

nobs Sat, Jan 20, 2007 2:57:17pm

#69 Cat

THIS JUST IN: Turkish news sources are reporting that the guy who shot Dink is caught. In some other city in Turkey, don't know the name.
1. For all those lashing out against the use of alleged in the Armenian genocide: They're mostly fucktards, but don't forget there are some very well respected historians who disagree with calling it genocide, such as Bernard Lewis. He doesn't dispute that many Armenians were killed, but rather states that a lot of these deaths were the result of mutual conflict, with both Armenians killing Turks and Turks killing Armenians, and that the Ottoman Empire (which ISN'T the same thing as Turkey, for all intents and purposes) did force them to move in very harsh conditions with not enough precaution to prevent deaths (which is how a lot of the deaths happened), there is no real document (read: not FAKE, as some fakity fake documents were provided as well as a completely made up quote from Hitler saying "the Turks did it with Armenians, why can't I do the same thing to the Jews?" or something similar) that shows the government's intent to obliterate the Armenians, or kill as many of them as they could.
Genocide is a word that shouldn't be thrown around lightly, and I will admit that I don't know much about the topic but I respect Lewis very much as a historian, and I am inclined to believe him.

Enough said. It happened. It was Genocide and it was awful. My wife who is Armenian 2nd generation and who’s grandmother was from Armenia and fled the Genocide before her death over ten years ago told us all many stories from that time and yes in my opinion it was Genocide
Turkey has never admitted it and never will.
I of Scottish descent turn my back at all muslim countries pull up my kilt and say kiss my ass.

easy Sat, Jan 20, 2007 3:29:20pm

‘I shot the infidel, but I did not shoot the deputy'.

jenv Sat, Jan 20, 2007 7:30:32pm

Can somebody explain to me why Turkey makes talking about the Armenian genocide illegal? I find it difficult to imagine Muslims feeling actual shame over the incident, and it isn't as if they're fooling anybody by claiming it didn't happen.

deacon Sat, Jan 20, 2007 7:31:02pm

by brother in-law lives in Istanbul (Greek Orthodox) I will have to ask him about this story.

ShyGuy Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:11:45pm

Has anyone looked closely at the suspect's pic?

So help me it's Basil Fawlty!

ShyGuy Sat, Jan 20, 2007 10:46:59pm

BTW, shooter caught:

Turkey: Teenager confesses to killing journalist
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
A teenager detained over the slaying of an ethnic Armenian newspaper editor has confessed to killing the journalist, the state-run Anatolia news agency quoted a prosecutor as saying on Sunday.

Police captured the suspect - identified as Ogun Samast - in the Black Sea city of Samsun on Saturday, a day after Hrant Dink was gunned down outside his newspaper's office in Istanbul, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said. Chief prosecutor Ahmet Cokcinar told Anatolia the youth had confessed to killing Dink during initial questioning.

Cat Sun, Jan 21, 2007 2:34:27am

#75 nobs - I personally haven't done much reasearch, meaning I can't site you this or that. I have, however read arguments for and against saying it was a genocide. Bernard Lewis, on the other hand, does know quite a bit. If you have proof to tell me that he isn't a respected historian, or he doesn't know what he's talking about - go ahead. I promise, I will listen, and if it is reliable info, I will believe you.

You may call it a genocide, but I don't think it fits the definition of one. Calling that genocide would also mean saying Armenians were trying to commit a genocide to the Turks living in that area at the time. I suppose your mother in law never told you about the countless villages they burnt, killed everyone living there, and tortured (including taking babies from the womb by just cutting the mother open and mothers drink their childrens' blood), always only Muslim Turkish villages? And that this was the reason they moved the Armenians in horrible weather conditions? That is when most of the deaths occured, during the forced move, and yes, I definitely agree that the Ottomans should have taken more precautions to ensure the well being of Armenians (though "human rights" as we speak of them kinda did not exist back then), but there so far I haven't heard any arguments that cite reliable information about the intent of commiting genocie against Armenians. I've visited Turkey more than once, and despite its many shortcomings it is a country that I like and have hopes for. I had the good fortune to meet an extremely intelligent Turkish historian in one of the best universities who can read fluently, speak and write in the language of the Ottomans at the time, and there are official documents that have been proven to be real that talk about those atrocities in detail. If you think there was an Armenian genocide, then go ahead and think it. And say it to everyone you know, I don't care. But the use of the word "genocide" for the misery the Armenians went through is under dispute, and not by some crazy ass people parading as historians either. I think it's important to acknowledge that it isn't being called a genocide universally by respected historians, unlike the Holocaust or the Rwandan genocide.

#77 - I think it has something to do with saying it was a genocide, not just talking about it. It is totally ridiculous if you ask me. Turkey does have many shortcomings, and this is one of them. Turkey will never accept it as genocide, because then Armenia will have demands Turkey is not capable of providing, such as money. So it is state policy to not acknowledge it as genocide. I don't know why the hell that would mean individuals can't say its genocide though. Utterly stupid laws.

dentate Sun, Jan 21, 2007 4:58:28am

They caught him and he confessed:

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

How very strange that there is no quote about his motive. I suppose he just said "I did it" and gave no reason...

OR THAT THE REASON WAS NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT.

Can anyone think of a reason a 17 year old would have done this OTHER than jihad? Interesting that his father turned him in...

Daisy Sun, Jan 21, 2007 9:57:02am

#68 hiker,

Sorry I didn't see you comment until today (Sunday) .. yes, I'm aware of these laws. I believe Turkey's laws against "insulting Turkishness" are the exact same laws that exist throughout Islamia - They are essentially laws that prohibit any criticism of Islam. The Turks practice utter denial of their genocidal behavior towards Armenians (infidels) and have laws that defend/enforce that denial. Sound familiar?

What was it like for you in Turkey? Did you live/work there .. or were you there as a visitor? Last year while visiting Austria (never again) .. I was aghast watching the continual news loops from the BBC re: bird flu in Turkey .. it would have been funnier if people were not dying .. In a nutshell .. imagine BBC reporters trying and failing to hide their astonishment while interviewing locals who had no idea that it was not a good idea for their children to play with decapitated chicken heads. The funny part was witnessing the BBC hiding their real sensibilities .. an unfortunate practice that has led to the Brits creation of complimentary Sharia laws (Hate Crime laws ) that prohibit anyone from criticizing Islam.