msm = enemy

If he wasnt a Muslim, they would be gloating.

Funny how when the MSM gets caught burying facts, their only defense is to attack those leveling the charges.

Ultraconservative website

Uberfascist!

And I am just suuuuure the spokesman of the Islamic Society would honestly say, "Oh yes, young Suleyman was one of our most active, devout mosque-goers. We saw him every Friday!"

Taqiyyeh Bell has restaurants in Utah too.

“The media did everything they could to avoid mentioning it, but it’s confirmed today that the mass murderer who terrorized a mall in Salt Lake City was a Bosnian Muslim,” reads the intro at littlegreenfootballs.com.

The msm doesn't seem to realize that the solution is to do their job.

"There is no record .."

Parsing.

Repost from the dead thread:
Dramatic Home Video Shows Utah Mall Rampage

The video isn't graphic. This is what I hear at 1:03....
Voice #1: "Allahu Ackbar"
Voice #2: "This is the police, put the gun down"

Can anyone clean up that audio?

Was he a Muslim or not?

MSM Answer: Well, yes, but that is completely besides the point!

We all know damn well if this was a white kid from a christian background this would be splattered across every TV and radion in the country as "Tragedy in the Heartland" or some other catchphrase.

i would like to send them a message

Right, and Talovic shot up the mall for no reason, just another disgruntled yout having a bad day.

Ismail Yassin Mohamed
Naveed Afzal Haq
Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar
Omeed Aziz Popal
Sulejmen Talovic

Hmmm, nothing in common here.

move along

We are only to know those things that the "experts" in the MSM want us to know. Bwahahahaha!

#10 Kragar (proud to be kafir) 2/15/2007 08:41AM PST

Was he a Muslim or not?

MSM Answer: Well, yes, but that is completely besides the point!

We all know damn well if this was a white kid from a christian background this would be splattered across every TV and radion in the country as "Tragedy in the Heartland" or some other catchphrase.

Yes they would. They would have damn well made sure everyone knew he was adevout Christian if it turned out that he was.

Interesting.

It used to be "right wing". Then it was "right wing hate site". Now they're using the European moniker of "Ultraconservative". What's next, "Cowboys"? "White Supremacists"?

no tip for me

They can always threaten us with a "hate speech" prosecution, that seems to be the left's solution to everything these days: Criminalize all opposition because you don't have facts or logic on your side.

Hear this, left-beasts and petro-prostitutes: If you resort to force (and criminal prosecution is an act of force) you will get it back in spades.
Fuck these lying bastards and sell-outs.

Again, I am callling on any LGF member with the resources and know-how to investigate the financial dealings of dhimmi media figures and their academic allies.

There is no record that Talovic attended any of the mosques in the Salt Lake area,

So? You can be radicalized outside of mosques.
Robert Spencer:

In October 2006, a pro-jihad internet site published a “Guide for Individual Jihad,” explaining to jihadists “how to fight alone.” It recommended, among other things, assassination with guns and running people over. Is it possible that Sulejmen Talovic and some of these others were waging this jihad of one? It is indeed, but with law enforcement officials trained only to look for signs of membership in al-Qaeda or other jihad groups, and to discount terrorism as a factor if those signs aren’t there, it is a possibility that investigators will continue to overlook.

“Having lived under Soviet Union rules for decades, where religious freedom was not an option, a majority of these people” are not practicing Muslims, he added. “What I hear is that he came a couple of times at most, to Eid prayers, but I can’t confirm that he came.”

Wasn't this kid 18 years old. When did he live under soviet rule....when he was 5?

Methinks they doth protesteth too much...

Where I live (Denmark) decoding the MSM is straightforward :
If the article says : DANE kills man, he certainly is a Dane.
If the article says : Man kills man, it's a Muslim.
See ? - Easy.

The MEdia is the Enemy

Muslim Terrorism? Where?

The subversion of language is now complete.
Looking for facts and truth = being an ultraconservative.
The next step is sheer violence: re-education camps for the bloody "fascists" who dare SPEAK the truth.

So predictable....

Imagine if it had been a radical Christian who opened fire? Or some some pro-life guy gone mad?

“Having lived under Soviet Union rules for decades, where religious freedom was not an option, a majority of these people” are not practicing Muslims, he [Mosseir] added. “What I hear is that he came a couple of times at most, to Eid prayers, but I can’t confirm that he came.”

Bosnia was part of Yugoslavia, not the Soviet Union. And Tito, while no believer in freedom, was nowhere near as repressive as the Soviets on their best day. Religion wasn't repressed the same way. Most Bosnians (of any ethnicity) were fairly secular, but that doesn't mean anything.

Frankly, this statement is astonishing in its ignorance.

I read in one of the stories that he attended a mosque in Salt Lake City. They gave an address on 7th East. I will go back and try and find story.

This sounds promising:

U.S. to shun all members of Palestinian unity govt

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - The United States will boycott all Palestinian unity government ministers, including non-Hamas members, unless international demands on policy toward Israel are met, a Palestinian official and diplomats said on Thursday.

Some U.S. officials had been advocating a shift in Washington's position that would allow limited diplomatic contacts with cabinet ministers from moderate President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah faction and other parties.

But a senior Palestinian official said: "The Americans have informed us that they will be boycotting the new government headed by Hamas. The Fatah and independent ministers will be treated the same way that Hamas ministers are treated."

Diplomats familiar with discussions on the issue confirmed Washington's intention to shun members of a unity government unless it satisfied international calls for Hamas to recognize Israel, renounce violence and accept interim peace accords.

Dr. Josef Goebbels would be mighty proud of our media. Yes, he would.

One question....

If the shooter was a Christian or a Jew, how fast would either word be placed in every headline or byline around the country?

Oh, silly me, I already know that answer!

Oh no, not backlash!

#10

We all know damn well if this was a white kid from a christian background this would be splattered across every TV and radion in the country as "Tragedy in the Heartland" or some other catchphrase.

You are absolutely right on the mark. Had he attended mass, church or attended a private Christian grammar school, they'd be touting him as a supressed, angry evangelical.

If he were Jewish...are there any Jewish serial killers?

The msm will only get it after the muslims are in full control of what they print according to shari'a. And even then they'll still be blaming Bush, the Christians and the Jews.

Please write the authors of this article and tell them how pleased you are that they are so concerned about the possibility of a backlash against muslims.

jarvik@desnews.com, dbulkeley@desnews.com

Because what Elaine Jarvik and Deborah Bulkeley are saying is: Oh, all those people that were MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD, eh, too bad about them.

Dear Deseret News:

In Saudi Arabia they are all Muslims, and they are our "friends." Ain't living under Shari'a laws simply wonderful?

Saudi Arabia beheads convicted Saudi murderer

Nov 19, 2006 International Herald Tribune

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia: Saudi Arabia on Sunday beheaded a Saudi man convicted of murdering his mother-in-law, the Saudi Interior Ministry said.

[Link: www.iht.com...]

It is interesting how wanting to win the WoT is now a conservative position.

It is getting pretty clear over the past 3-4 years that 'slam is doing random acts of murder on American soil and to our citizens via guns, vehicles, bombs and MSM and the FBI/law enforcement is covering it up to preserve "harmony".

Ultraconservative?

Yes, I am! More & more each day!

And proud of it, by the way ...

YUSUF ISLAM 'APPALLED' AT RUSHDIE MISUNDERSTANDING

YUSUF ISLAM, the artist formerly known as CAT STEVENS, was "appalled" when newspapers accused him of calling for SALMAN RUSHDIE's head on a platter. Newspapers linked the singer to a Fatwa proclaimed after Rushdie committed blasphemy in his 1989 novel THE SATANIC VERSES. But Islam insists he merely questioned Islamic law. The 58-year-old says, "I never supported the Fatwa. "At a lecture back in 1989, I was asked a question about blasphemy according to Islamic law. I simply repeated the legal view according to my limited knowledge of the scriptural texts, based directly on the historical commentaries of the Koran (which states that blasphemy is a capital offence). "The next day, newspaper headlines read: 'Cat Says Kill Rushdie'. I was appalled."

South Africa's Democracy in Trouble

South Africa's democracy isn't looking too good these days. Not only is violent crime rampant, but so too is corruption in the upper echelons of government.

Nervous Censors and Staged Rebellion

Every year, Iran invites drama troupes from all over the world to its International Theater Festival in Tehran. The mullahs' censors keep busy, but they can't catch every offense to Islamic decency. The hard part is knowing what's taboo.

Serbia Resoundingly Dumps UN Proposal

To no one's surprise, the Serbian parliament has rejected a UN plan for Kosovo's independence. The fate of the ethnic Albanian province may now be up to the UN alone -- which isn't ideal, given that a UN police commissioner has resigned over the deaths of two protesters in Kosovo over the weekend.

Australia 'must limit Muslim immigration'

AUSTRALIA should limit Muslim immigration or a large Islamic population could pose a higher risk of violence, a visiting Jewish expert on Islam says. Professor Raphael Israeli is quoted in the Australian Jewish News as saying that without such a migration cap Australia risks being swamped by Indonesians.

“When the Muslim population gets to a critical mass you have problems,” he told Fairfax. “That is the general rule - so if it applies everywhere, it applies in Australia.” Prof Israeli, an expert on Islamic history at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, has been brought to Australia by the Shalom Institute of the University of NSW. He said Muslim immigrants had a reputation for manipulating the values of western countries, taking advantage of their hospitality and tolerance.

“When there are large Muslim populations who are prepared to use violence, you are in trouble. He said France, which has the highest proportion of Muslims in Europe at about 10 per cent, has passed a point of no return where the French “say they are strangers in their own country”.

AFGHANISTAN: PRESIDENT URGES BRITAIN TO PRESS PAKISTAN ON TALIBAN

Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, has urged Britain to intensify pressure on Pakistan over the cross-border activities of Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters. The president made the appeal during talks with British prime minister Tony Blair on Wednesday night in London, the first leg of Karzai's European tour. Afghan officials have accused Britain failing to press Pakistan president Pervez Musharraf to act because of British desires to win Pakistan's support in fighting against domestic terrorism.

#16 Pawn

Cowboys works for me. But, if you are in a hurry, Rednek is ok.

Why does the msm spend half their time trying to convince us that muslims are peaceful, and the other half of their time telling us (as in this article) that the muslims who turn out not to be peaceful were "secular" muslims, or some such crap.

Soon after this story broke, and especially after the guy's name was revealed, I thought: They will spin this with sympathy for the KILLER not his victims. We will scarcely learn the names of the dead, nor will the heroic cop get properly honored for saving a whole mall full of men, women and children.

Guess I'm psychic.

Reminds me of twenty years ago when the MSM couldn't bring themselves to mention a person's race if that person was black: "Suspect is described as a 6' tall male, black hair and brown eyes." Maybe throw in a clue like "suspect has an afro".

The article continues:

Buba Roth, a spokeswoman for the Consortium of Multicultural Groups, said such reactions are evidence of a general lack of understanding of the refugee community. They are also at least partially to blame for a reluctance by many Bosnians to talk to reporters, said Roth, a Serbian who speaks for the Consortium's 26 ethnic organizations, including a Bosnian association.
"People living here 10 or more years in America still don't even feel the freedom to communicate with the media," she said. "They are so afraid, and so isolated."
Roth said she sees the potential for escalation of the harassment and is working to start discussions among refugees and the mainstream community to foster increased understanding.
"Someone needs to start communication," she said. "Maybe we will be able to express who we are. ... We are Americans, we want the best for this country."

So let's see if I got this straight...

This tragedy occurred because:
The poor, poor, misunderstood, isolated, afraid refugee (cough... you mean to say - victim?) was only trying to reach out to the community... to express his... uh, inner struggle?

Well, that makes it official. Elaine Jarvik and Deborah Bulkeley... you are apologist idiots.

If LGF is "ultra-conservative" what would they call Islam?

Charles, you neglected to post the very best line in the article. After 3 or 4 paragraphs about the crazy right wingers who can't understand the difference between a Moslem who goes on a shooting rampage and "terrorism", and how these incidents bring the crazies out of the woodwork...

"Welcome to my world," said Ibrahim Hopper, communications director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington, D.C., about the angry e-mails.

"... or certain that because Talovic is Muslim that he must be a terrorist."

Well, he WAS a terrorist because he shot innocent people at random in a mall.

“What I hear is that he came a couple of times at most, to Eid prayers, but I can’t confirm that he came."

This shows how dangerous islam is: 2 times and then kill.

This is why we have to intern/deport/proscribe.

msm hiding truths and seething when someone points it out? NO WAY! I'm just shocked and amazed...I don't know what to say.

The video isn't graphic. This is what I hear at 1:03....
Voice #1: "Allahu Ackbar"
Voice #2: "This is the police, put the gun down"

That's not voice 1, it's the cop yelling something unintelligible.

Again, we have absolutely no idea what the shooter's motives were. Nobody's said anything, which either means that nobody is looking, or something is being hidden. Perhaps a combination of both.

How about we get some facts all up in this piece, doggs? Can't a news reader get some truth? Damn. Where my blogs at?

Dear Deseret News:

All of us here at LGF, just love, Saudi T.V. Do you people feel the same too?

Egyptian Cleric and Former Islamic Lecturer in the U.S. Hazem Sallah Abu
Isma'il on Al-Risala TV: Lectures on the Jews' Conflicts With Islam's
Prophet Muhammad, Stating U.N. Documents Assert "82% of All Attempts to
Corrupt Humanity Originate from the Jews"

[Link: www.memri.org...] .

In the April 14, 2006, edition of his weekly show on Al-Resala TV, The
Raids, in which he discusses the battles of the Prophet Muhammad,
Egyptian cleric Hazem Sallah Abu Isma'il explains to his audience that,
according to U.N. statistics, "Jews produce more than 82% of the video
clips in the world," and adds that "82% of all attempts to corrupt
humanity originate from the Jews."
Isma'il, a wealthy lawyer and businessman(1) who is also, according to
Al-Jazeera TV, head of the Committee for Implementation of Shari'a of
the Egyptian Lawyers' Union,(2) was a strong Muslim Brotherhood
candidate for the Dokki district in the November 2005 elections in
Egypt, but lost in a surprise upset to a member of Egyptian President
Hosni Mubarak's party. (3)

According to the Saudi channel Iqra TV, Ismail is the son of former
Egyptian MP Sheikh Sallah Abu Isma'il, and spent some time in the U.S.
with his mother Dr. Nawwal Nur, who lives in Los Angeles, with whom he
preached and taught Islam there. In a July 15, 2004 interview with Iqra
TV on the subject of 9/11, Isma'il stated that he believed that "these
events [i.e. 9/11] were fabricated from the outset as part of the global
groundwork for the distortion of Islam's image [...] a comprehensive
global plan that includes a media aspect," and that "the authorities
there [i.e. in the U.S.] don't want to conduct an investigation."

This is so unfair to Charles. He takes such abuse.

Charles, I don't know how you manage to tolerate this idiocy but I appreciate you and what you do here.

Kirly

Because of LGF the people who read the Desert News will find out that the shooter was a Muslim and then the readers can make up their own minds as to whether this person's rampage may have been related to his "religion."

Thanks LGF and those who emailed this paper.

MSM = Muslim Submitted Media.

In my country it is the
BBC = British Broadcasting Caphilate.

What's yours called?

#9

Hard to make out. Can't say for sure until the audio is cleaned up. Would have thought that the police and eyewitnesses would have been able to tell though.

"Welcome to my world," said Ibrahim Hopper, communications director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington, D.C........."

The world of terrorists, Dougie?

Anybody remember the good old days, just a couple of years ago when people and the MSM pooh-poohed the denizens of the internet and made comments about how this phenomheum of blogs was just a fad and would soon fade. And here we are in 2007 being used as fact checkers and truth tellers with the old last century media in the position of having to attack or debunk what appears on the blogs. Well nobody was upset at the Braves until they mad it to the World Series and suddenly folks were offended by the team name.

Who'd have ever thought Salt Lake would go dhimmi?

This attack from the Deseret News confirms that they were deliberately trying to hide this information from you.

Standard tactic of shoot the messenger. Charles must have pushed a button. Keep up the good work, and more readers and viewers will slip away from the clutches of the msm.

#36 Ironfist

This Vietnam vet is pretty upset with the goins on in Congress just now. Never thought I would live to see the day. Five years of unrelenting propaganda has taken its toll, I guess.

#32 Carolyn

Wedged into the door jamb was a sealed envelope with one hand-written and underlined word: “Sorry.” Inside it, visible through the address window, were $20 bills.

That's a thick envelope too. I'd guess there's about $3,000 in there.

#24 buzzsawmonkey

I wonder--if someone shot up a newspaper office, would that be an example of PMSM* Syndrome? Would the newspapers report it as such? Would the religious or political affiliation of the shooter be considered relevant?

That depends. If he were an Evangelical, even by the most extreme and obvious stretch of definitions or associations, that fact would become the basis for 24/7 coverage demonizing everyone with a remotely similar belief system. Leftist media, after all, manage to equate anti-abortion terrorists (7 dead in 25 years) with Islamic dictators (millions dead in 25 years).
They are capable of anything.
In the unlikely event that the shooter is a Muslim, the media beasts will privately blame themselves for being insufficiently sensitive to Muslim concerns. Publicly, they will blame the evil right-wing hate speakers for driving the perp to acts of irrational acts of desperation and inciting an attack on innocents.

#36 Iron Fist 2/15/2007 08:50AM PST

It is interesting how wanting to win the WoT is now a conservative position.

Ultraconservative, babe, Ultra conservative

#51 taxfreekiller

LOL! Yes, I'm sure you-know-who is going to pop up any minute now, to tell us the proper way to interpret this article, and how we're really misunderstanding the whole thing.

The MSM is logic-challenged and truth-challenged. Deseret suggests that unless there is incontrovertible evidence (like what? a map of the mall signed by an imam, along with printed orders to kill infidels?) that the killer was on a mosque-ordered mission, they shouldn't mention that he was a muslim.

Newspapers have gotten completely away from the original hallmark of objective reporting: the 5 W's (who, what, when, where, why). It's all agenda-driven, minority-sensitive, multi-culti-protecting editorials masquerading as news.

In this case, the fact the perpetrator was a Bosnian muslim immigrant is a relevant fact (who AND why). There have been a series of similar incidents across the country of "sudden jihad syndrome" by individuals from similar circumstances (young male, immigrant, muslim).

Just give us the facts and let US determine if they are relevant to the story and to how we should protect ourselves and our families.

Could you imagine what the MSM would be saying if this nutcase jihadist murderer was a Mormon? I'd like to know why these reporters are not doing the investigative journalism that ought to be REQUIRED of them. Why haven't they interviewed every neighbor and aquaintance of this kid. Why have they not grilled the local imams about him? Where is the picture on the front page of the Deseret News of the mosque where this kid went to services? I want to see copies of the receipts of the stores where he bought the ammo and the guns!

Diplomats familiar with discussions on the issue confirmed Washington's intention to shun members of a unity government unless it satisfied international calls for Hamas to recognize Israel, renounce violence and accept interim peace accords.

HOW EFFING DARE THEY!

#15 Elric66

They'd have called him one of those "Jesus Camp nuts".

I couldn't download the video, but I could turn it up real loud.
boom
Alklahhuakhbar
boom boom boom
Allahhuakhbar
This is the poilice get on your knees
Boom Boom Boom
Allahhuakhbar
multiple booms

#49 Pawn of the Oppressor
You might be right, I really wish the audio was better.

Is this where our young murdering terrorist hung out?
SLC Mosque

So what if this guy had instead had explosives strapped to his back and walked into the mall. Would the reaction have been any different? Certainly the result would have been the same—innocents killed by a terrorist.

Having lived under Soviet Union rules for decades, where religious freedom was not an option, a majority of these people” are not practicing Muslims...

Uhhh.....hello? Soviet Union? Are you really that ignorant of history and geography?

If the killer had been a member of Aryan Nations, would they have hushed that up?

Would they have deemed his political views to have no relevance to the killing?

Would they have worried about slurring all Nazis as killers?

No. They would have rightly thought "there could be a link here" and reported it.

Islam is not the same as Nazism, but both are belief systems that inspire people to acts of murder and violence. I know it's not politically correct to say this, but it is factually correct.

Sure - most Muslims are not going to go on kill sprees in the name of Allah, but whilst a significant number are going to perform "physical Jihad", the religion of Islam is involved.

#45 Elric66

If LGF is "ultra-conservative" what would they call Islam?

Good question.

never ever stop

we count on you

everyday

Ibrahim Hooper and his "WELCOME TO MY WORLD" can shove it up his wazoo. No thanks-I will NEVER ENTER YOUR SICK WORLD.

La la la, mosque spokesman says he just was there MAYBE ONE OR TWO TIMES IN HIS WHOLE LIFE WE DON'T KNOW HIM LA LA LA SOME MUSLIMS ARE SECULAR LA LA LA.

TAQIY-O-RAMA!

#54 raz

NBC = Nothing But Calumny

#46 find your violent jihadi on ebay!

They go to the usual suspects.

Hopper? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

There is no record that Talovic attended any of the mosques in the Salt Lake area, according to both Tarek Mosseir, a spokesman for the Islamic Society of Greater Salt Lake, or Bobby Ravish of Muslim Forum

.
This is just like those statements, "There are no recorded accounts of Killer Whales attacking people."
Yah. Mr. Eskimo went out in the kayak and never came back. No one ever saw him again. No record is not the same as

never done it

, but that's how it's always used. Saw a similar quote recently, "There is no credible record of mountain lions in Colorado attacking people." That was the standard line before ... well, it's effect was to lull people into a false sense of security while in the hunting grounds of predators. A few people have already paid with their lives. Just cause some lion sightings turned out to be bobcats and white labradors doesn't mean there isn't a problem out there.

Mosseir noted that many Bosnian Muslims are more secular than religious.

True enough, but conversely, "Many Bosnian Muslims are more religious than secular." It's also more intense, those people had a nasty civil war there that ran along religious lines, and NATO troops are still stationed in the Balkans.
Conclusion: wishful thinking is no substitute for a proper, and thorough, unbiased investigation. All the population wants to know is the truth, no matter which way it pans out.

that there is absolutely no connection between Islam and terrorism, and anybody who suspects one is either a racist

Pathetic that this statement had the appelation -ed after it as in editor. They should go back to the dictionary and look up the words, racist and then

Islam

. Tomorrow's correction: "We regret to note that we incorrectly used "racist" ..." Or is that wishful thinking?

Another fine example of the depth of knowledge of a journalist.

I think that religion and ethnicity (if known with sufficient precision) of a perp should always be reported, clearly but without undue emphasis - I'm talking about media intended for a wide public here; not outlets catering to a public with specific political views.

So, I don't think that a headline there should be "Muslim Slaughters Seven", but the religion of who did that shouldn't remain a secret either.

Anyone knows if the perp left a martyrdom video or somesuch, or yelled "Allah akbar" during the shooting spree? That's sure proof of SJS.

“Having lived under Soviet Union rules for decades, where religious freedom was not an option, a majority of these people” are not practicing Muslims, he added. “What I hear is that he came a couple of times at most, to Eid prayers, but I can’t confirm that he came.”

Wrong: Yugoslavia was NOT part of the Soviet Union nor was it part of the Warsaw Pact. People were free to practive religion in the former Yugoslavia, provided the clergy did not critisize the government.

During the Bosnian civil wars of the 1990's, many mujahedin came from the Muslim world including Afghan Arab veterans and lots of Saudi money. The Bosnian mosques were radicalized during this period.

Killgore Trout ,
Is that not the craziest thing you've ever seen?
"WE are so sorry we had to be in front of your son's shotgun blasts!"

I don't know if it's a good idea to accuse the Deseret News of being deliberately obtuse ("ultraconservative" label notwithstanding). It's not what you'd call a bastion of MSM thought. It's owned by the LDS church and has traditionally been more conservative than its historic rival, The Salt Lake Tribune.

I am a long-time fan of LGF, but I think you guys have it wrong this time. The kid was probably a MINO, Muslim in name only, who was also disaffected and psychotic and trying to assimilate into a new culture (which is no piece of cake, BTW). The neighborhood he lived in was none too wealthy, and he had loner tendencies.

If he was waging jihad, he'd have at least popped off a good "Allahu akbar" at some point, but he didn't. It sounds more like your basic Columbine syndrome than jihad. This time, anyway. Don't lose perspective, lizards. Don't earn the reputation the LLL continually tries to foist on you. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

#58 Ward Cleaver

Who'd have ever thought Salt Lake would go dhimmi?

In case you haven't noticed, EVERY state capital, even in red states, is a bastion of blue bastards. The reason is simple. They are overrun with state government workers, lawyers, unions, and teachers. These are the new communists ("neo-comms"). Socialist, multi-culti, eco-theology, Bush-haters.

#61 Kilgore Trout

If it is around $3,000.00 or so, that's an awful lot just to say you're sorry. (Wouldn't a sympathy card have done as well?)

Is this some sort of pay-off to the family, for giving a shaheed to martyrdom? Maybe, or maybe somebody really is just sorry, but I hope, I really, really, really, really hope that somebody is investigating this, and that it's not just going to be all swept under the rug as some poor soul just going nuts, donchaknow, and acting out his pain at our uncaring society.

Some questions:

1. Who was he in contact with, during those last few days before the killings? Has anybody taken a look at his cell phone? His computer?

2. How did he get the gun? Did somebody help him? Who? Where did he learn to shoot? Who taught him?

3. Was he holding a Koran during the shootings? One witness says he was. Can we clear this up? It's an important detail.

Look, there's are a lot of questions here; I hope they get answered, and that they we don't just get the usual pat on the head and "Move along, nothing to see here!"

Personally, the jury is still out with regards to this scumbag's motivation. Yet, I guarantee you one given - this incident will be railroaded towards renewed liberal attacks on the 2nd Amendment. Count on it.

CBS:

Caliphate

Broadcasting

System

If Bosnia was part of the USSR, Nova Scotia is part of New England.......

#75 NoSubmission 2/15/2007 09:00AM PST

#45 Elric66

If LGF is "ultra-conservative" what would they call Islam?
Good question.

Perhaps the Deseret News can answer that since Im sure they are lurking. Excuse me Deseret News. Could you please answer the question? :-)

#45 Elric66

If LGF is "ultra-conservative" what would they call Islam?

Duh-uh. What are ya, shtooopid?

"Islam-a RELIGION OF PEACE, with a TINY MINORITY of adherants, WHO DO NOT REPRESENT ISLAM, and who have HIJACKED ISLAM and given a very bad name to the majority of peaceful, loving, kumbaya-singing Muslims."

#86 THX-42

Dallas is heading that direction, too. Getting bluer by the day.

There is no record that Talovic attended any of the mosques in the Salt Lake area, according to both Tarek Mosseir, a spokesman for the Islamic Society of Greater Salt Lake, or Bobby Ravish of Muslim Forum

Was does attending a local mosque have anything to do with this? How lucky for the Islamists that if someone does a single terrorist attack here in the US as long as they aren't dressed in camouflage and wearing a ski mask while chanting Arabic then the MSM will not include the info that this mass murderer, for no apparent reason, killed a bunch of people, happened to also be a Muslim.

If the killer in Salt Lake City had been Jewish, Evangelical, ect.. you can bet the headlines would something like this:

Jewish Man Goes On Rampage In Mall

#74 uptight

If the killer had been a member of Aryan Nations, would they have hushed that up?
Would they have deemed his political views to have no relevance to the killing?
Would they have worried about slurring all Nazis as killers?

Given the way things are going, they might have. The dhimmi media have no trouble concealing the Nazi ideology of the Iranian regime, for example, and they have completely ignored the massive and well-financed influx of recycled Nazi propaganda onto college campuses.

44 Sgt.Slappy

The article continues:

Buba Roth, a spokeswoman for the Consortium of Multicultural Groups, said such reactions are evidence of a general lack of understanding of the refugee community. They are also at least partially to blame for a reluctance by many Bosnians to talk to reporters, said Roth, a Serbian who speaks for the Consortium's 26 ethnic organizations, including a Bosnian association.
"People living here 10 or more years in America still don't even feel the freedom to communicate with the media," she said. "They are so afraid, and so isolated."
Roth said she sees the potential for escalation of the harassment and is working to start discussions among refugees and the mainstream community to foster increased understanding.
"Someone needs to start communication," she said. "Maybe we will be able to express who we are. ... We are Americans, we want the best for this country."
So let's see if I got this straight...

This tragedy occurred because:
The poor, poor, misunderstood, isolated, afraid refugee (cough... you mean to say - victim?) was only trying to reach out to the community... to express his... uh, inner struggle?

Well, that makes it official. Elaine Jarvik and Deborah Bulkeley... you are apologist idiots.

How are they idiots for pointing out the proven fact that people who come here from repressive, war-torn shitholes usually feel isolated and afraid of the police and the media? And that immediately tarring and feathering a whole group of people based on the actions of one asshole teenager doesn't help the situation any, especially when we have absolutely no idea what the shooter's motivation was yet?

Yeah, they quoted some scuzzbag from CAIR, but they have a point: there's a whole lot of bigoted bullshit being posted in here lately.

In the meantime, it would be nice if Desert News would spend as much time digging into the reality of this event as they did worrying about what some jerks on a blog think. How many of us even live in Utah? Come on.

ISLAMOPHOBE!

#28 Ned

I read in one of the stories that he attended a mosque in Salt Lake City. They gave an address on 7th East. I will go back and try and find story.

Interesting. That mosque is only a block from the mall he shot up.

These people are ignorant

They have chosen to ignore reality

They choose what to publish and allow others to read as truth

They are peddlers of lies

The media is the enemy

follow them at your own peril

Also, just because LGF and its readers oppose the extreme lunatic left, that doesn't make them conservative (although some of us may be).

Opposing fascism is something that liberals should do (if they weren't too busy getting into bed with it).

Isn't the Deseret News owned by the Mormons? Maybe these weird religions that start with "M" are all in cahoots...

As stated in a blog earlier today:

"Welcome to my world," said Ibrahim Hopper, communications director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington, D.C., about the angry e-mails. "I get tons of it every day."
On Wednesday, in response to a CAIR effort to find photos of American Muslims for a special project, the group received a phone call from someone asking sarcastically, "Do you want a picture of the guy in Salt Lake?"

ibrahim. Please allow me to explain something to you. Your a member of a group that touts that islham is not here to mingle with other religions, it's here to be the ONLY religion. That in itself is a declaration of jiha(m)d toward all religious belief other than your own in this country. You, your group and your religion REFUSES to denounce terrorism, your imams and leaders constantly preach about jiha(m)d and death to the west and yours is the DOMINANT RELIGION in suicide bombings, beheadings and warfare.

GEE! I WONDER why AMERICANS look at a muslham and wonder 'IS HE WEARING A BOMB under his coat?'

Its high time you pull your head out of your ASS and 1....tell the TRUTH about your religion and 2....become TOLLERANT of AMERICA for what IT STANDS for, or MOVE your sorry jiha(m)dist BUTT TO A nation that is ALREADY shri'lla law.

#96 POTO

Consortium of Multicultural Groups

Feh. They lost me at "consortium". What a sniffy, stupid word for special interest victimization groups to whine about how mean people are.

88 Cartman 2/15/2007 09:03AM PST

Personally, the jury is still out with regards to this scumbag's motivation. Yet, I guarantee you one given - this incident will be railroaded towards renewed liberal attacks on the 2nd Amendment. Count on it.

That ship has sailed. He used a shotgun, and it must not have had black plastic furniture, otherwise it would have been shown on a table at a press conference already. There's no grist for the "Assault weapons" or "high capacity handgun" mill.

Then again, Utah is relatively pro-firearms, so maybe the local PD wouldn't have felt the need to show off and demonize the gun.

or certain that because Talovic is Muslim that he must be a terrorist.

Actually, for me, my first inkling that he just might be a terrorist was the whole "shooting random people at point-blank range with a 12-gauge" thing.

85 dicentra

If he was waging jihad, he'd have at least popped off a good "Allahu akbar" at some point, but he didn't

I disagree. You are stereotyping what a Jihadi would or should be saying while shooting people.

You just made my point in my last post, 94.

#85 dicentra

I am a long-time fan of LGF, but I think you guys have it wrong this time. The kid was probably a MINO, Muslim in name only, who was also disaffected and psychotic and trying to assimilate into a new culture (which is no piece of cake, BTW).

Who cares? That didn't stop the MSM from plastering all over the world that McVeigh was a Christian (even though he was an agnostic). The story isn't the shooter, the story isn't that he was muslim. The story is the corrupt dishonesty and incompitance (USSR my butt) of this media outlet, whether or not you consider them MSM.

“Having lived under Soviet Union rules for decades, where religious freedom was not an option, a majority of these people”

Uh, hello, they were Warsaw Pact, but not Soviet Union.

#92 WriterMom 2/15/2007 09:05AM PST

#45 Elric66

If LGF is "ultra-conservative" what would they call Islam?

Duh-uh. What are ya, shtooopid?

"Islam-a RELIGION OF PEACE, with a TINY MINORITY of adherants, WHO DO NOT REPRESENT ISLAM, and who have HIJACKED ISLAM and given a very bad name to the majority of peaceful, loving, kumbaya-singing Muslims."

Good point. Bad Muslims hasve been highjacking Islam and giving Islam a bad name. I blame Mohammed because he started the highjacking of Islam. :-)

#45 Elric66

If LGF is "ultra-conservative" what would they call Islam?

75 NoSubmission

Good Question.

Fascist comes to mind.

#95 Shiplord Kirel

Ah, but the Iranians are poor desert people oppressed by the bushitler.

remember in SF the muslim ran his car into a bunch of people?

#105 O.R

'zactly

#94 Ginn

If the killer in Salt Lake City had been Jewish, Evangelical, ect.. you can bet the headlines would something like this:

Jewish Man Goes On Rampage In Mall

Exactly. GMTA.

#100 uptight.

Opposing Supporting fascism is something that liberals should do.

Sorry to do that, but when a liberal crosses the socialist bridge, he becomes a fascist.

#36 Iron Fist

It is interesting how wanting to win the WoT is now a conservative position.

It kind of always was. To conserve something is to attempt to prevent it from being destroyed. If you believe America and its attendant freedom is something worth keeping from being destroyed by Islamofascism (or any other form of fascism), that's a conservative idea.

#112 phoenixgirl 2/15/2007 09:09AM PST

remember in SF the muslim ran his car into a bunch of people?

Happened in NC also

#85

If he was waging jihad, he'd have at least popped off a good "Allahu akbar" at some point, but he didn't.

He may have "Allahu akbarred"

#47 Ojoe:

"... or certain that because Talovic is Muslim that he must be a terrorist."

Well, he WAS a terrorist because he shot innocent people at random in a mall.

That makes him a murderer, not necessarily a terrorist. He might have gotten the idea to go shoot him some kaffirs by spending time on the wrong web sites, but I would guess that he was more Columbine or amok than regular jihadnik. If I were to learn that his mosque attendence was regular or went up recently, I would revise my opinion.

#85 dicentra

I am a long-time fan of LGF, but I think you guys have it wrong this time. The kid was probably a MINO, Muslim in name only, who was also disaffected and psychotic and trying to assimilate into a new culture (which is no piece of cake, BTW).

Let's face it, islam is a mental condition in itself.

dicentra: please note -- I have not expressed any opinion on whether the attack was an act of jihad, personal or otherwise. I've raised the issue, with good reason. But I have deliberately refrained from expressing a conclusion, because we obviously do not know enough at this point to do that.

I have come to the conclusion, however, that the media are doing everything possible to hide connections to Islam in cases like this. It's an absolutely predictable pattern, and they do it every time.

I love it. They say, "More secular than religious."

What the heck is that kind of speak? You are either 100% secular or you are simply not secular.

If they are suggesting here that he doesn't go to Mosques and therefore isn't religious enough to be deemed Islamo-Terror material, then I would like to know what MOSQUE have the Islamic Terrorists in Guantanomo Bay Cuba have gone to recently?

#83 Kenneth:

Wrong: Yugoslavia was NOT part of the Soviet Union nor was it part of the Warsaw Pact.

Good catch.

And if you really want to be sick read the rest of their coverage of this nutjob murderer:

By Ben Winslow
Desert Morning News
and Nedim Hasic
Slobodna Bosna

As a little boy in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Sulejman Talovic hid in fear from the Serb military forces who were slaughtering Muslim men and boys as war and genocide ravaged his country.

A world away, those who knew him say he was an "ordinary kid" with dreams of America, and they are unable to comprehend that he could have committed such a crime.

"I know all Talovic family," said Omer Johic, who was a neighbor of the Talovic family in the Bosnian village of Cerska, near Srebrenica. "Everybody are nice, quiet and fine people, and I just cannot believe that Sulejman has been able to kill those people."

'We are good people'

Omerovic said Talovic was not a terrorist.
"I want to make sure that people don't think about us that we are terrorists or something like that," she said. "We are good people, just like everybody, and we want to be nice to everybody."

Talovic's family wants to know where he got the guns, suggesting he did not have them at home.
"We want to know who signed for the guns and all the things that he had with him," Omerovic said. "We don't have any ideas how he get all that. We want to find who did that."

A child of war

The atrocities of war and "ethnic cleansing," and the pressures of daily life in a new country after he immigrated to the United States, could have created immense pressure on Talovic,

Hopes for a better life

But life here in Utah has been a struggle for the family.
"We came here to America to survive from war and to be good with every people," Omerovic said.

See? He was just a poor victim. And if we would have just been nicer to him he wouldn't have felt a need to go out and MURDERED a bunch of people.

Poor kid. Don't you feel sorry for him?

A child of violence: Talovic survived genocide

He survived genocide? WRONG. He's a MURDERER.

I swear touchy-feely do gooders like the Desert News and Ben Winslow who want to lie me into thinking this kid is the victim here really piss me off.

The man MURDERED five people Desert News, and you seem to care less about them. What a farking joke.

Journalists or purveyors of Lies and Islamists propaganda and false information

Head meet sand

no thanks

NY Times is fretting about the "anti-Bosnian backlash."

Anti-Bosnian Backlash Feared in Utah

By KIRK JOHNSON
Published: February 15, 2007
SALT LAKE CITY, Feb. 14 — Most of the thousands of Bosnians living in the Salt Lake City area are refugees of war, and all of them are toughened by the experience of making new lives in a new country.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Those dangerous Mormons...

We're going to have to get used to being slaughtered in droves by Muslims. It's a small price to pay in order to support the fantasy all religions and cultures are the same.

/At least I'm joking when I say it.

009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Sounds like one of them opened the damn book again!

#92 WriterMom

ROFL! That's great!

{WriterMom}

(At this point, it's usually obligatory to mention Moslem unhappiness over the Crusades, and the modern day state of Israel. Also, the noble Saladin, who was extremely noble, and Andalusia---ever heard of Andalusia? It was a really, really swell place! And Moslems invented soap and algebra.)

“Having lived under Soviet Union rules for decades, where religious freedom was not an option, a majority of these people” are not practicing Muslims, he added.

Tim McVeigh wasn't a "practicing" Christian either, but that doesn't stop leftists from throwing his name in your face if you discuss the preponderence of Mohammedans among the rank of terrorists.

There is no record that Talovic attended any of the mosques in the Salt Lake area, according to both Tarek Mosseir, a spokesman for the Islamic Society of Greater Salt Lake, or Bobby Ravish of Muslim Forum. Mosseir noted that many Bosnian Muslims are more secular than religious.

careful now, you don't want to motivate someone to dig into that one, Deseret. You may be scared what they might find. Things you are unwilling to report.

First they came for Rush Limbaugh and he only increased in popularity.

Then they came for Fox News, now the No. 1 television news outlet in the nation.

Now they've come for LGF, which will only further increase this audience and decrease theirs.

If these twits did any basic research, they're realize hundreds of blogs reported basically the same information as LGF; yet they single out only a few, knowing the power you have.

#116 HeatherRadish

It is interesting how wanting to win the WoT is now a conservative position.

It kind of always was. To conserve something is to attempt to prevent it from being destroyed. If you believe America and its attendant freedom is something worth keeping from being destroyed by Islamofascism (or any other form of fascism), that's a conservative idea.

Therefore, the opposite of conservative is nihilist. The Nazis were NOT conservative.

If the person ahd any religios affiliationa t all it woudl have been noted especailyl one of the hated religions

i.e. judeo-christian

But one of the loved ones i.e feared i.e. terrorism works
that is hidden

A better question is why?

Why would a 'journalist' hide known information?

The root cause of terrorism is its success

This is one of the successes of islamic terrorism

Getting American's so fearfull of being honest and listing facts

Terrorism works - we see the effects everyday

“Having lived under Soviet Union rules for decades, where religious freedom was not an option, a majority of these people” are not practicing Muslims...

I spent two years in Bulgaria, and from approximately 1380 A.D. - 1908 A.D. (500+ years) the Bulgars and Slavs were under what they call "Tyrskoto Robstvo"...The Turkish Yoke (Ottoman Empire).

During that time Christian Churches were turned into execution chambers. Just visit a small village, Batak. In Batak more than 2000 Christians were forced into a church by the muslims and locked in it. You can still see the 2 foot high blood ring on the church walls. People dug 4 feet with nothing but BARE HANDS, and various items that could be found in the church, through solid stone and rock trying to reach water. Cannibalism ensued and the skeletons are still there. The church there is now a museum/memorial.

The muslims did their best to force the bulgar/slavs to convert to Islam by holding knives under the chins of the people. So if they didn't deny the Christian belief the knife would then be shoved up into the head. The Christians adapted accordingly and the practice still stands today, that in order to survive, they would move their head from left to right and not up and down to say 'yes'. So when the knife was under there chin and they were asked, "Are you a christian?" They would turn the head left and right. The muslims felt it meant no, yet the christians knew it was 'yes'. They still nod that way. Nodding the head up and down means 'No', left to right, right to left means 'yes'. It took me a while to get used to it.

You can't tell me that about 50 years of communism is going to have the ability to wipe out 500 years of Ottoman Empire reign?
You can take Israel out of Egypt...but it's a lot harder to take the Egypt out of Israel...(Old Testament Metaphor).

Now Bulgaria is 13% Muslim...Bosnia is ALOT HIGHER in the percentages.

#126 Abu Maven

There will be no backlash. There wasn't one after 9/11, and there won't be one now.

This constant talk about "backlash" and "Islamophobia" is a slander against the American people, who are depicted as bloodthristy brutes, eager to attack minorities----whcih is the Marxist/Gramscian vision fo them, to be sure. (Hey, Babba, we need you here!)

There is no record that Talovic attended any of the mosques in the Salt Lake area, according to both Tarek Mosseir, a spokesman for the Islamic Society of Greater Salt Lake, or Bobby Ravish of Muslim Forum

Are they trying to say that only muslims who go to a mosque are prone to acts of violence? If that is what they are inferring isn't this good enough reason to close them down? I would think that a devout Muslim who attended mosque regularly would be overwhelmed by feelings of good will since it a RoP&reg.
Why did they feel it necessary to point out that he hadn't attended any mosque?

124 Geepers

A child of war
The atrocities of war and "ethnic cleansing," and the pressures of daily life in a new country after he immigrated to the United States, could have created immense pressure on Talovic,

Sounds like the press would like to let him go free. Maybe he just needs a hug and some nice warm cocoa.

MSM perspective: Seven years after Columbine, we're still hearing about it.

Three days after this, nary a blip on the national radar.

Selective reporting to fit an agenda.

Did you see this comment at the video site?
I can not believe it.

Once again cops in America killing people. You give cops in America the SLIGHTEST reason and they will unload 90 rounds of .40 cal in you from 6 different directions. Its funny because you would think a few slugs to the chest/leg/arm areas would be enough to bring a person down and then see if they want to fight or give up, but no they gotta unload on you until you are a leaking pile of meat. This is sickening man, im tired of seeing cops abuse their power. They have a tough and dangerous job, but they never aim to wound they ALWAYS aim at the head and they always shoot way more shots than are necessary. The judge and jury should make the decision on if the kid loses his life or not; not some cop with a .40 cal. Their job description is PROTECT AND SERVE, not "shoot people that have guns". Clear the area of civilians (protect) and call in the negotiatiors and follow their instructions (serve), stop trying to be Chuck Norris with a pistol just because you can.
Posted 2 hours ago by "WhyFightForFossilFuels?"

117 Elric66

Jihad Minneapolis
Jihad San Fran
Jihad Seattle
Jihad UNC

#124 Geepers:

As a little boy in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Sulejman Talovic hid in fear from the Serb military forces who were slaughtering Muslim men and boys as war and genocide ravaged his country.

Well, I guess the intrepid Mr. Winslow's reporting helps explain why Elie Wiesel and Primo Levi perpetrated all those spree killings in the 1950s and 60s.

What?! They didn't?!

dicentra #85: Yes, the fact that Talovic was a Muslim does not necessarily prove that was his motive to commit these murders.

However. It is still a load of PC bull-bleep to deliberately suppress that fact lest the toothless moron rubes get the "wrong idea" !

ABC

Americans Broadcasting for the Caliphate

#124 Geepers
#126 Abu Maven

PUKE. That didn't take long. SPIN, MY PRETTY LITTLE LIBERAL JOURNALISTS, SPIN!

This will continue ad nauseum with several themes:

-even if shooter was a jihadi, not all Muslims are jihadis
-Muslims had many bad things happen to them, so we must understand that sometimes Muslims might do bad things
-nothing anyway could be as bad as the JOOOOOOOOOS

124 Geepers

Such solace to the victim's family that the person who murdered those they loved in cold blood had such a good reason to kill them.

////

Maybe the kid was a jihadi wannabe, maybe he was just a nut, but we have a right to know as much as can be known, and the so-called journalists are not doing their job. Are they afraid of what they might find out? They all fancy themselves brave, speaking-truth-to-power types, but they're going to be the first ones to stick their asses in the air five times a day to save their skins.

OT

If THIS doesn't make a patriotic American proud, then I'd suggest you aren't one.

/Bravo, Bert Brady

This sets the perfect contrast to how modern liberalism affects cognition.

They are disgusted to think out there exists a group thought that automatically becomes suspicious in light of events such as this. In there terms, bigoted.

Realize the credibility of a similar thought process, however, when the shoe is on the other foot.

Roth said she

sees the potential for escalation of the harassment

and is working to start discussions among refugees and the mainstream community to foster increased understanding.

Amazing.

Our attacks on Serbia and Serbian affiliated forces may go down in history as the worst injustice and crime ever committed by this country. Ironically, it is the only recent military action that had any substantial support from the left.

How bad were guys like Milosevic, in reality? How much do we really know about his crimes, and how much was driven by the pro-Muslim agenda of the media-industrial complex? The mass graves of Muslim victims in Kosovo, for example, have yet to be found; but hundreds of churches have been burned.

#136 TalkinKamel

This constant talk about "backlash" and "Islamophobia" is a slander against the American people

Absolutely.

There is no record that Talovic attended any of the mosques in the Salt Lake area, according to both Tarek Mosseir, a spokesman for the Islamic Society of Greater Salt Lake, or Bobby Ravish of Muslim Forum. Mosseir noted that many Bosnian Muslims are more secular than religious.

Dear Elaine Jarvik and Deborah Bulkeley:

I am terribly sorry you received "angry" emails. On the other hand, my heart goes out to the innocent victims in Salt Lake City butchered and murdered at the hands of the criminal mass murderer for no reason.

I would like to point out a few points for you to ponder and consider:

1) We do not see any evidence to the contrary that the teenager didn't attend any Mosque or obtain any terrorist-Jihadi brainwashing or pulled Islamic snuff porn off the Internet;

2) The spokesperson for the Islamic Society of SLC, gave us no reason or reasons why a Bosnian Muslim would kill 3 innocents for no reason;

3) We are suspect in America of the pervasive media attempts at both whitewashing and covering up crimes by U.S. Muslim Nationals and/or citizens by always saying or implying that it was done as a "lone" criminal act;

4) It is stupefying to read anything or go anywhere without the Arab or Muslims living here to remind us, the American citizens, how and what we are doing around the world makes us hated or that our political echelon is ignorant;

5) Your pernicious malady of ignoring how the Islamic community in the U.S., led in no small part by CAIR, is undermining our War on Terror and spreading virulent hatred of Jews and Christians, in many ways and by many means;

In any case, it is our First Amendment right to discuss on-going events that concern us all, and to cast aspersions on news forums like LGF, shows us one thing, that your focus to try and drive a wedge between what is reality and your alternate version of reality is duplicitous and delicious to observe your "newspaper" misconstrue how we witness horrific crimes that you would like us all to just "ignore."

BTW, don't you have a Anna Nicole Smith story to pursue?

Sincerely,

David J. Schwartz

#135 Oh no. . . . Sand People

Oh, come ON! How can you say such terrible things? Islam is a religion of PEACE! It's just been hijacked by a SMALL MINORITY of radicals, but, really, most or them are PEACEFUL, and sing "Kumbaya" all the time! And Saladin was really noble, did you know that? And Andalusia was really a swell place. They had Algebra. And soap.

/Seriously, you're right. Also, take a look at Will Durant's description of Moslem atrocities in India, in "Our Oriental Heritage".

#85 dicentra

Have what wrong? What does LGF have wrong exactly? expound please

The media lied, hid an important fact about a mass murderer, for no other reason but fear of muslim terrorists

Why did they hide this known fact from the public?

Why did they lie?

Who are they to tell us what we need to know?

You report, we decide.

They felt it wasnt part of the story? why is that? isn't islamic terrorism all over the world?

The irrational fear of muslims is by the media

they are islamaphobes they hide from reality irrationally

Terrorism works on silencing the news reporters - making them into liars, untrustworthy

#94 Ginn

If the killer in Salt Lake City had been Jewish, Evangelical, ect.. you can bet the headlines would something like this:

Jewish Man AIPAC member/noted Elder of Zion, Goes On Rampage In Mall

Fixed that for you.

#141 Sharmuta 2/15/2007 09:15AM PST

117 Elric66

Jihad Minneapolis
Jihad San Fran
Jihad Seattle
Jihad UNC

It will get worse as time goes on.

Hmmmm......

ter·ror·ist /ˈtɛrərɪst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ter-er-ist] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.
2. a person who terrorizes or frightens others.
3. (formerly) a member of a political group in Russia aiming at the demoralization of the government by terror.
4. an agent or partisan of the revolutionary tribunal during the Reign of Terror in France.
–adjective 5. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of terrorism or terrorists: terrorist tactics.

If he wasn't a 'terrorist' as the story says, than I guess the people in the mall who WEREN'T dead, weren't scared.

This is interesting [Link: www.sltrib.com...]

In about the middle of the story it says suspicious folks were hanging out at mosque. The story was written Jan 20, 2007. Also a problem about funds from Saudi Arabia.
I couldn't find where I read it, but I know I read a story saying the killer attended this very mosque.

#104 Pawn

Then again, Utah is relatively pro-firearms, so maybe the local PD wouldn't have felt the need to show off and demonize the gun.

I'm just saying (regardless of the weapon type) that we gun owners who follow the law to the letter will somehow be demonized, once again.

.

I have come to the conclusion, however, that the media are doing everything possible to hide connections to Islam in cases like this. It’s an absolutely predictable pattern, and they do it every time.

It's the i word ! ! !

#140 Carolyn

I was afraid of this.

I hope it's not going to happen---but I'm afraid they're going to go after the heroic cop, who faced down the killer.

The Media does NOT have the RIGHT to LIE to the American People

PERIOD

"for our own good"

That sort of paternalism belongs in a facist country

I know msm liberals long for facism ..

Did anybody catch this? Check out the bolded part:

There is no record that Talovic attended any of the mosques in the Salt Lake area, according to both Tarek Mosseir, a spokesman for the Islamic Society of Greater Salt Lake, or Bobby Ravish of Muslim Forum. Mosseir noted that many Bosnian Muslims are more secular than religious.

“Having lived under Soviet Union rules for decades, where religious freedom was not an option, a majority of these people” are not practicing Muslims, he added. “What I hear is that he came a couple of times at most, to Eid prayers, but I can’t confirm that he came.”

Now what's happening with this quote here? Is the "not practicing Muslims" phrase the words of the spokesman, or the reporter's interpretation?

Everything I've read about Balkan Muslims says they're generally not as crazy as their desert counterparts - they drink, they smoke, they don't put their women in sacks, and I've read in many different places (even in articles about the revival of the modern Jihad movement in the Balkans) that they roundly rejected the Al Queda tentacles that wormed their way into Bosnia in the 90's. They're as close to the hypothetical "Europeanised Muslims" as you're likely to find. So there are some interesting questions to take away from that quote:

1. Is the spokesman for Islamic whatever calling Bosnian Muslims apostates because they're not Islamic enough?

2. Or did the spokesman say something else entirely, and the reporter tweaked the quote to whitewash the degree of the immigrant community's Islamic-ness? Because as written, the quote implies that Bosnians aren't, you know, religious. At all.

Everybody's got an agenda... Sheesh.

#124 Geepers

See? He was just a poor victim. And if we would have just been nicer to him he wouldn't have felt a need to go out and MURDERED a bunch of people.

I know that these leftard journalists find facts to be really, really annoying, but the US was fighting against the SERB CHRISTIANS on the side of the BOSNIAN MUSLIMS. Fat lot of good that did......

EGYPT: STUDENTS SUGGEST RENAMING VALENTINES DAY 'PROPHET MOHAMMED'S DAY'

Cairo, 14 Feb. (AKI) - A group of Muslim students and activists has suggested that Saint Valentine's Day - the traditional celebration of love in Western countries - should be renamed "The Prophet Mohammed's Day," daily al-Watan reports. In recent years Valentine's Day has gained growing popularity among the middle and upper classes in Egypt, but the Muslim students say they want to divest Valentines Day of its consumerist ethos and turn it into a "broader" vision of love for humankind.

[Link: www.adnki.com...]

Broader by renaming the holiday after a pedophile?

dicentra (#85),

The kid was probably a MINO, Muslim in name only, who was also disaffected and psychotic and trying to assimilate into a new culture (which is no piece of cake, BTW). The neighborhood he lived in was none too wealthy, and he had loner tendencies.

Aaaaaww.

Poor guy. I feel so sorry for him.

And your concern for all the people he MURDERED is touching.

Oh, like I'm really going to trust somewone who says this:

“Having lived under Soviet Union rules for decades, where religious freedom was not an option, a majority of these people” are not practicing Muslims, he added.

Say what? Yugoslavia was independent, and not part of the Warsaw Pact. No part of Yugoslavia ever lived under "Soviet Union rules." Tito opted out and staunchly rebuffed absorption into the Soviet sphere.

A real expert that guy, I tell ya.

162 mglazer

I know msm liberals long for facism

It's why they are attracted to islam.

When a muslim shot and killed people at an El Al ticket counter at LAX after 9.11 why did the media/feds report within seconds it was not terror related?

How could they know that?

Paternalism

It is for their own good, not to worry their pretty little heads ..

Thanks

"How are they idiots for pointing out the proven fact that people who come here from repressive, war-torn shitholes usually feel isolated and afraid of the police and the media?"

Because those factors do not lead to a mall-shooting rampage.

#152 DavidJSchwartz

BTW, don't you have a Anna Nicole Smith story to pursue?

Man you got the MSM pegged!

#165 Elric66

the Muslim students say they want to divest Valentines Day of its consumerist ethos and turn it into a "broader" vision of love for humankind.

Because Mohammed was all about love for humankind. Never slaughtered Jewish farmers or tortured old women poets or anything like that.

Well, since you reporters at the Deseret News seem to read this site, let me hit you with a clue bat.

We are not interested in proving that this guy is a Muslim terrorist. We are interested in the truth. What we expect it the news media and the authorities to report the truth. If this guy was mad because of something that happened in his life and just went nuts, then fine. Report it. But I also expect if this guy went on his own personal Jihad against the infidel then I expect it to be reported as well.

WE are interested in the facts and the truth.
Can you say the same thing when you withhold facts?

#124 Geepers

As a little boy in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Sulejman Talovic hid in fear from the Serb military forces who were slaughtering Muslim men and boys as war and genocide ravaged his country.

So effing what?

Did an Auschwitz survivor go on a shooting rampage in the 1950's?

Did a Cuban Castro refugee go on a shooting rampage in the 1960's?

Did a Cambodian Pol Pot refugee go on a shooting rampage in the 1980's?

Did a Rwandan refugee go on a shooting rampage in the 1990's?

What does that have to do with the f&&king price of rice in China?

Email sent to the writers of the article:

Are you aware that Bosnia was part of Yugoslavia, not the Soviet Union?

Religion certainly was not repressed the same way. This fact should have been mentioned, if you were to insist on the quote.

It is nice (and professional) that you sought comment from both Tarek Mosseir, and Bobby Ravish. I wonder if you also tried to get comments from any of the editors of the websites you trashed. I can't help but notice that you don't mention not being able to get in touch with anyone at these so called "ultra conservative" site.

Can you explain to me why?

The Deseret obviously has no clue about the dangers of Islam. As many here have posted, Sudden Jihad Syndrome is not a myth, or even a rare phenomenon anymore. If there's even a chance that SJS is involved here WE AMERICANS DEMAND TO KNOW THAT.

Who is Deseret to say that this pyschotic killer's Islamic religion had nothing to do with this mass murder? Give us the facts Deseret, as diplomatically as you like. But know that omission is LYING, not reporting. Is Deseret prepared to be lumped in with the NY Slimes? They are well on their way...

Anyway, this poor, disaffected youth was probably just upset about the Crusades. And the manifold atrocities of Baldwin IV, the nefarious leper king (who fought against Saladin, who was really noble, did you know that?) And Israel's unjust occupation of Utah. And capitalist shopping malls. And Serbian atrocities against Bosnians, even though he wasn't there when they occurred. And Irag.

(Did I miss any of the usual talking points, WriterMom?)

P.S. By the way, have I mentioned Andalusia? There was a golden age of tolerance there, and Islam invented soap! It was a really swell place!

Cultural Marxism

In 1919, Georg Lukacs became Deputy Commissar for Culture in the short-lived Bolshevik Bela Kun regime in Hungary. He immediately set plans in motion to de-Christianize Hungary. Reasoning that if Christian sexual ethics could be undermined among children, then both the hated patriarchal family and the Church would be dealt a crippling blow. Lukacs launched a radical sex education program in the schools. Sex lectures were organized and literature handed out which graphically instructed youth in free love (promiscuity) and sexual intercourse while simultaneously encouraging them to deride and reject Christian moral ethics, monogamy, and parental and church authority. All of this was accompanied by a reign of cultural terror perpetrated against parents, priests, and dissenters.

Hungary's youth, having been fed a steady diet of values-neutral (atheism) and radical sex education while simultaneously encouraged to rebel against all authority, easily turned into delinquents ranging from bullies and petty thieves to sex predators, murderers, and sociopaths.

#172 HeatherRadish 2/15/2007 09:23AM PST

#165 Elric66

the Muslim students say they want to divest Valentines Day of its consumerist ethos and turn it into a "broader" vision of love for humankind.
Because Mohammed was all about love for humankind. Never slaughtered Jewish farmers or tortured old women poets or anything like that.

Mo was all about the love. Love of killing and oppresing non Muslims.

#167 zombie

Something tells me that that Einstein doesn't think that the USSR was such a bad place......

#150 Kirel:

How bad were guys like Milosevic, in reality?

Quite.

The mass graves of Muslim victims in Kosovo, for example, have yet to be found

Wrong.

#9 Killgore

The video isn't graphic. This is what I hear at 1:03....
Voice #1: "Allahu Ackbar"
Voice #2: "This is the police, put the gun down"

I couldn't make out what was being said just before the police officer clearly said "put the gun down," but if you listen to it from the beginning, about 5-10 seconds in, I thought I heard an "Allahu Ackbar," though it was hard to tell. Bear in mind, I wasn't listening for any "A.A.'s" before 1:03 in.

Another Mass Murdering Muslim

Why does it matter that he was muslim?

Because since the RoP began with convert, die or dhimmi this has been going on all over the world, it has only gotten stronger while the w/rest has gotten weaker

No thanks to our leaders, media or otherwise

So their purposefull blindfolding of the citizenry is telling, expected and chilling

Terrorism works and we are bearing its fruits

#169 mglazer

You're completely right. They see themselves as haveing a special annointed status in society. Egotistical sumbiches.

# 85

I am a long-time fan of LGF, but I think you guys have it wrong this time. The kid was probably a MINO, Muslim in name only, who was also disaffected and psychotic and trying to assimilate into a new culture (which is no piece of cake, BTW). The neighborhood he lived in was none too wealthy, and he had loner tendencies. ..... Don't lose perspective, lizards. Don't earn the reputation the LLL continually tries to foist on you. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

You are truly missing the point. All over the world - and, increasingly, within our own borders, Muslims are going on murderous killing sprees. Sometimes these are directly connected with Jihad, and sometimes they appear an increment more "random". But either way, something in Moslem culture is producing a kind of ongoing, grinding random violence that has come to our shores. Christians are not storming into shopping malls and shooting up strangers. Nor are Jews, Hindus, animists, or wiccans. This is a Moslem thing, and its frequency and dispersal across the globe is wildly picking up steam. For the media to refuse to cover this story, preferring over and over to call these random acts of random people, is a travesty and a grave disservice to the public. LGF and others like it are the ONLY places to go to get a taste of the truth.

Haven't you had enough with the 'crazed, loner, underemployed, angry person' excuse? Have you noticed that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEsE PEOPLE IS A VERY PISSED OFF MUSLIM, AND THEY"RE KILLING OUR CITIZENS?

#152 david...

Yeah, but if Anna Nicole was beheaded by a Jihadi it would not be news.

The Salt Lake Tribune has posted the reason it happened by being a mouthpiece for this crappy lib quote:

Antonella Packard, president of Honduras Maya de Utah, and Renetta Coppard, executive director of the Latin-American Chamber of Commerce, both asked for more assistance for refugees. They said better health care and other services would help prevent similar incidents and might have prevented past shootings.

uh...sure.

But it is important to let you know that Mitt Romney is a Mormon because you know it could have an impact on whether or not you vote for him unlike Mr Ellison (MN-D) for whom his religion has no impact on whether you vote for him or not.
/MSM Pretzel Logic
//coming to a psychiatric disorders list near you

#85 dicentra
I am a long-time fan of LGF, but I think you guys have it wrong this time. The kid was probably a MINO, Muslim in name only, who was also disaffected and psychotic and trying to assimilate into a new culture (which is no piece of cake, BTW). The neighborhood he lived in was none too wealthy, and he had loner tendencies.

trying to assimilate into a new culture (which is no piece of cake, BTW). The neighborhood he lived in was none too wealthy,
Let's put a stake into this right now. This concept that assimulation is so tough it can drive someone to violence is phony. The entire United States was populated by immigrants who arrived with a hell of a lot less than this man had, and arrived here after weeks of lousy shipboard conditions, not stepping off a neat and tidy modern jet. They managed. They went into cruddy neighborhoods - worse than what can be found in Utah, that's a fact. They made something of themselves with less money, poor English, no health care, no social security no welfare and greeted by hostile people. They didn't go nuts and start murdering people.
I ought to institutionalize my kids right now if assimulation is so mind-wrenching. They've grown up in 6 different Third World countries. WHen we came back to the US to live, they had to assimulate, too. They don't know the TV shows, the actors, the slang, the "in" fashions, the this, the that. They spoke English, but had done all their schooling in another language, so it took them over a year to be able to read their school textbooks competently in English. They missed math problems because they knew the terms in the other language, but not in English. They are American and Americans don't understand them. How's that for feeling like a misfit? At least with a foreign accent, people assume you might not know something, but with our kids who have no accent, they're sometimes dismissed as strange or dumb. Despite all the drama, and frustration, not a one has the least inclination to pick up a gun and trot off to a mall and blow people away.
"Assimulation anxiety" is a bogus concoction of the Left. It's being used a lot - this isn't the first time I've seen the excuse used.

#157 Sponge

BabbaZee's really the expert here, but the Leftist media doesn't ascribe to the "theory" that words have specific agreed-upon meanings.

/Was the shooter George Bush or Dick Cheney? Then he's not a terrorist.

51 tfk,

Its ok, Cognito in his new voice of reason will
make it clear, its just the cost of the plant and
equipment, the high cost of transporting the
rags once the lies are in ink, and of course the
30 little silver things that pay the lead liars aka
editors ect.

gag them all tie a knot
throw away the knot code

Etc., etc., etc...

I just believe that -- in most cases -- the more information we have, the better. Then we can use the information to make up our own minds. Which in this case means that the paper should have included description of the shooter as a Muslim -- as LGF did -- so that we can decide whether he's a terrorist.

In this particular case, I'm not quite convinced yet. I've not followed it turn-by-turn, but I've not seen anything that links this guy's religion to his homicidal act. That is, Muslims can be crazy in the ordinary way.

But the paper still owed us the information, because if no one ever notes details like the guy's belief in Islam -- then we'll never see patterns emerge.

170 jimash

"How are they idiots for pointing out the proven fact that people who come here from repressive, war-torn shitholes usually feel isolated and afraid of the police and the media?"

Because those factors do not lead to a mall-shooting rampage.

The issue was the "community's" reluctance to talk to the police, if you'll read the article. Last I read, the family wasn't answering the phone and for whatever reason, we're still in the dark about a motive. Even CAIR is in on this already (Desert News must have a hotline to them!) but we hear nothing from the actual investigators? What the F is going on?

ALL THE NEWS THAT'S FIT TO DELETE

#161
TalkinKamel

Once again cops in America killing people. You give cops in America the SLIGHTEST reason

The slightest reason?
5 dead people, one of them a 15 year old girl....
The slightest reason?

#140 Carolyn
Thanks, I forgot to check the comments....

Once again, it is not a cops place in the chain of command to condemn and execute. It is their job to incapacitate and detain a suspect. If they cant do that they need to call in the negotiators. As you can see the cops in the video have no care in the world about the clearing the area of civilians, they just steam head first with weapons drawn ready to kill the guy if he doesnt immediateley give up.

LLLogic.

#175 Buck

Email sent to the writers of the article:

Are you aware that Bosnia was part of Yugoslavia, not the Soviet Union?

That was cold.

#46 find your violent jihad

"Welcome to my world," said Ibrahim Hopper, communications director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington, D.C., about the angry e-mails.

Do they ever miss a chance to play the victim? Reality check, Dougie. You got emails. They got murdered.

The article is listed in the paper under News instead of opinion. What crap!

Buck, real good words.

They said better health care and other services would help prevent similar incidents and might have prevented past shootings.

So.......this act of terrorism happened because the kid didn't have good dental coverage?

The MSM is really reaching on this one.

Just for fun, they should try reporting the real story, just to see how it feels.

191 Cognito

Care to comment on this genius' knowledge of history and geography, let alone commitment to quality?

#108 Ward Cleaver

Yugoslavia was the leader of the non-aligned nations. It was not a member of the Warsaw Pact.

and am I invisible or something? I pointed out the "Soviet Union rules" stupidity at #24 or #25.

It is simply acknowleging facts that witnessing the brutality of the genocidal civil wars, such as those in Bosnia, Rwanda, Sudan, Cambodia & etc., can cause deep psychological scars on children. There is a well documented increased risk of mental illness, personality disorders and various forms of post traumatic shock. Sometimes the survivors of these horrible experiences will "snap" and go out and victimize others. This is not excusing the crime, nor the criminals. It's just a fact.

This case in Utah is likely just such an instance, and it may or may not have a further causal influence of jihadi Islam.

Thank you Charles!

#85 dicentra 2/15/2007 09:03AM PST

I don't know if it's a good idea to accuse the Deseret News of being deliberately obtuse ("ultraconservative" label notwithstanding). It's not what you'd call a bastion of MSM thought. It's owned by the LDS church and has traditionally been more conservative than its historic rival, The Salt Lake Tribune.

I am a long-time fan of LGF, but I think you guys have it wrong this time. The kid was probably a MINO, Muslim in name only, who was also disaffected and psychotic and trying to assimilate into a new culture (which is no piece of cake, BTW). The neighborhood he lived in was none too wealthy, and he had loner tendencies.

If he was waging jihad, he'd have at least popped off a good "Allahu akbar" at some point, but he didn't. It sounds more like your basic Columbine syndrome than jihad. This time, anyway. Don't lose perspective, lizards. Don't earn the reputation the LLL continually tries to foist on you. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

If it looks like a terrorist, walks like a terrorist, kills innocent people like a terrorist, and the MSM covers it up with a story today showcasing and whitewashing the murderer instead of covering the stories about the VICTIMS of the PERPETRATOR, we are proud to be "losing our perspective."
[Link: www.deseretnews.com...]

With all due respect.

#181 Occasional reader

These are scarcely authoritative or unbiased sources: A release from the Clinton spin machine during the period of the attack on Serbia, and an Amnesty International report that is ambiguous at best. (The latter admits, for example, that many victims were Serbs murdered by Muslims and that many of the deaths occurred after the NATO intervention).
A biased source's claim of 3700 dead from both sides is scarcely evidence of programmed genocide, which is the accusation.

203 Kenneth

Shut up, man. You and your "humanity", what are you, some kind of Commie traitor? PUT EM ALL IN CAMPS!

/sad but true.

#27 Dianna

Just so. Your post is prior to mine at #83.

And no, you are not invisible. I just got excited and jumped to comment with reading everything else.

"Welcome to my world," said Ibrahim Hopper, communications director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington, D.C., about the angry e-mails. "I get tons of it every day."

FYI his name is HOOPER

Here at LGF, we at least spell your name right.

"...have not expressed any opinion on whether the attack was an act of jihad, personal or otherwise....I have deliberately refrained from expressing a conclusion,"

BRAVO for LGF standing behind old traditional news media principles.

If only Deseret (degenerate) News in Utah would do the same by not prematurely concluding that the man's religion is not a motive, then we'd finally be given some real honest news for a change.

If you folks are writing to newspapers and you are sourcing your information to LGF, then I'd like to suggest that vitriol in your emails be left on your computer. Today's modern press is not as aware of Sudden Jihad Syndrome like LGF readers are aware to it. Note that. It's important for you to contextually make the case that Talovic's religious background may have played a role in his reported "random" shooting.

The letters are important because they introduce an angle of which the local press may not be aware. Proceed with caution and if you have questions about your email then post them here and they can be answered.

Unfortunately, when you give the press just one email that is hateful upon first glance, you give the press an excuse to frame their story that way.

#202 Dianna

We're all invisible. You were the first to comment on that, followed by me, followed by Kennith, followed by Zombie (I hope I didn't miss anyone). That's a major screw-up to publish that, IMO.

You know, there was a time when "profiling" was considered to be good detective work. And there were (still are) specialists called "profilers" whose job it is to take seemingly inocuous, unrelated small facts and create a picture (profile) of the likely suspects of a crime. In many such cases, serial killers who would otherwise have continued their brutal crimes were captured and prevented from killing any more innocent victims.

But now profiling is itself about to become a PC crime (look it up, some congress critters are actually trying to come up with laws to prevent this). My, how "enlightened" we are about to become (enlightened, as in aerated by so many bullet holes that light will shine through us).

#85: I understand what you are saying I too am trying to assimilate into another culture, Mexican. The only oddity here is I live in the US. I think you missed the point entirely, it wasn't that anyone stated he was an islamic terrorist, the crux of the article dealt with media declivity for convenient absence of details.

#131 tfk

What is going on in Washington D.C. is a direct result of the fact Lt. Kerry and Jane Fonda etal were never punished for their true and real crimes.

/shiver, lurch, spew

#92 WriterMom
I'm glad I read down before responding to
45 Elric66
If LGF is "ultra-conservative" what would they call Islam?
Was about to say the exact thing...lol

#192 Pawn of the oppressor.

Maybe you're right, and I got the reference wrong.
I just looked at video interviews of his Father and cousin.
They want to know where he got the guns.
They didn't seeem all that shy.

#131 tfk

not at you --sorry, not well presented.

Those two names invoke revulsion in me.

#197 ciaospirit

Reality check, Dougie. You got emails. They got murdered.

Amen, sistah.

Does this kind of reporting also apply to Iraq?
Next time there is an IED or car bomb go off over there maybe the MSM should investigate it before proclaiming it as part of the NBC decleared civil war.
How do we know its not just some disgruntled Iraqi postal worker who is pissed off because he got fired.

#85 dicentra

If he was waging jihad, he'd have at least popped off a good "Allahu akbar" at some point, but he didn't.

How do you know that?!

Cognito (#191),

But the paper still owed us the information, because if no one ever notes details like the guy's belief in Islam -- then we'll never see patterns emerge.

LOL!

But they're not intentionally biased.

I read a headline that six are now dead, but when I click on the link a story about bond issues comes up. Anyone have the latest?

News reports indicate that the suspect was carrying a shotgun, a .38, and lots of ammunition.

If this was a response to Bosnia (10+ years ago, and he was a child at the time), where is his long troubled history of acting out?

How many people did he murder, and what were their crimes against him or his family?

As per the link provided by #9 (Kilgore Trout), the audio portion of the video indicates the suspect clearly shouted “Allahu Akbar”, and it is clearly audible over the other noise.

“Allahu Akbar” is, among other things, the Muslim war cry. It is not used by Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Shintoists, Buddhists, various animist sects, atheists, agnostics, etc. Is it also not a secular war cry.

Sulejman Talovic’s equipment, actions, and his own recorded words clearly show that the fact he was a Muslim is of significant importance.

The article written by Elaine Jarvik and Deborah Bulkeley
is little more than propaganda; an attempt at a whitewash of the murders.

Their quotes of Tarek Nosseir, and Bobby Darvish are simply a distraction. Nosseir (?):"What I hear is that he came a couple of times at most, to Eid prayers, but I can't confirm that he came."

This is a throw-away response, a “who woulda thunk” excuse.

They portray Buba Roth, a spokeswoman for the Consortium of Multicultural Groups, as some sort of impartial expert.

They quote her and write: "People living here 10 or more years in America still don't even feel the freedom to communicate with the media," she said. "They are so afraid, and so isolated."

This is doubtfully true.

Jarvik and Bulkeley should be a bit more intellectually honest in their reporting.

#214 THX-42

I think you are confusing two different definitions of the term "profiling". The pc caterwalling is about "racial profiling" which is when border guards spot people who look like they might be Muslim (which is not a race) and then subject them to increased scrutiny. Forensic "profiling" is about building a dossier on the likely identity of a suspect in a crime by collecting personality driven clues. That practice is not the subject of pc caterwalling.

#96 Pawn...

we have absolutely no idea what the shooter's motivation was yet?

Gee, I guess you're right. There's no possible merit to the suspicion of a connection with being muslim, and yet another murderous rampage.

Just like no connection between the dead lambs and the coyote with the full belly and blood on his fur.

Right.

Got it.

Thanks.

#222 ciaospirit

How do you know that?!

You've put your finger right on the problem. We know that we can't trust the media, so we don't know for certain what didn't happen. He very well could have yelled out "allah ackbar", and we'd never know. Don't be surprised if some more facts that have been heretofore censored come out in the blogosphere in the next week or two.

The media is not going to "get it" until the next 9/11-class attack. Maybe not even then. We may as well hunker down for the looooooong term fight with the mainstream media to portray Islamic violence honestly. Today's media is a collection of idealistic people who believe, at the core, that all the world's problems are our fault and that the only solution is to rectify our wrongs through cash payments, ideological submission, one-way "dialog" to understand their complaints, and destriction or just atrophying of our cultural heritage.

A great many people who come out of this murderer's part of the world are psychotic and this mental state is due to several factors in the history of the area, the religious creeds and the deprivations in civilised foundations of life experienced by all the peoples of that benighted land mass.

Both MSM and the blogosphere are shadow-boxing in one aspect which it is essential to dismantle: the silence over Muhammad and his central role in islam. We are forever going to be saying to ourselves and as many as we can reach with our knowledge that this man's example and teachings are behind humanity's on-going problems with islam and moslems, and the MSM, by never mentioning a peep about him, is boxing itself into a corner. The public, meanwhile, can see that it's not a ROP but the demonic aspect is not defined clearly. I've said before, we need all forms of communication on our side. As many as possible need to get onto other blogsites, write to newspapers, their columnists and reporters, feed people the info. I do see changes happening in reporting islam in Brit papers, for example. Until Muhammad is exposed, we are going to see these desperate attempts to keep a lid on the issue in MSM with the result of a disconnected and frustrated greater public. If we can get the full truth out, it removes the underpinnings of silence and protection of the forces seeking to spread islam.

Axiom (#212),

Unfortunately, when you give the press just one email that is hateful upon first glance, you give the press an excuse to frame their story that way.

Oh please Axiom. The press has never needed an "excuse" to shove their bias down our throats.

#196 Earth2moonbat
#199 formercorpsman

I got a response:

On 2/15/07, Elaine Jarvik wrote:
You're right, we should have contacted someone from one of those sites. Elaine

So, let me see if I have this straight: You can't be a terrorist unless you attend Mosque regularly? Is that an admission by MSM that Mosque attendance breeds terrorism?

Can we shut down the damned Mosque's yet?

211 Jeff MacMillan

BRAVO for LGF standing behind old traditional news media principles.

If only Deseret (degenerate) News in Utah would do the same by not prematurely concluding that the man's religion is not a motive, then we'd finally be given some real honest news for a change.

The problem is any news outlet withholding facts from their audience. It then ceases to be news, and becomes propaganda.

#202 Dianna

#108 Ward Cleaver

Yugoslavia was the leader of the non-aligned nations. It was not a member of the Warsaw Pact.

and am I invisible or something? I pointed out the "Soviet Union rules" stupidity at #24 or #25.

#213 Earth2moonbat
We're all invisible. You were the first to comment on that, followed by me, followed by Kennith, followed by Zombie (I hope I didn't miss anyone).

Dianna and Earth2moonbat: you've not invisible to me! I just hadn't read the thread yet. I saw the historical boo-boo, posted a quick note about it, and later went back and skimmmed the thread and noticed others had pointed out the same thing.

It's a pretty common occurence that the same fact gets pointed out repeatedly by post-and-run commenters (like me sometimes).

you've = you're

PIMF

I listened to the audio on that video at LiveLeak, by the way, and I do not hear "Allahu Akbar." The only audible voices seem to be the cops'.

#212 Axiom

Good advice. They need to be walked through the facts, step by step, and "led" to the truth sometimes. Simply e-mailing them with a nasty response that assumes they know what we know and are just ignoring it (well, it may be the case for some of the writers, but not most), is counterproductive. E-mailing them with "kill all the camel-jockeys" or insane rambling is not going to help LGF or any of us. Quite the opposite.

None of us should be in a cussing rage at this point in history, despite the tactics of our Blogospheric opposition, who see reason and order as anathema to their cause. Not venting of 'Feelings'. I feel like cussing a lot in forums. I feel like hurling abusive epithets at my usually quite aggravating debate opponents. It never helps.

Calm, measured, tactical responses are in order, despite what you feel.

-Taq

kilgore trout: I cannot make out "allahu akbar" at 1:03 into the liveleak video.

"“Having lived under Soviet Union rules for decades"

Uhhhhhhh....Yugoslavia was officially a part of the non-aligned movement and not the Soviet Bloc. Tito played both sides against each other.

#9 Killgore Trout

I think that's "Ogden police", but you really can't be sure. I don't think that would stand up in court. I don't know how possible that is to clean up, either.

#237 Charles:

I concur.

I can hear the beginning of an utterance at 1:03 on the audio, but it is mixed with the police. I can't tell what was said.

#238 Taqiyyotomist

I'm glad someone is getting it. The media must be viewed as a wild beast that you can tame over time. You can't just run up to it and start waving your arms around. Media management is a full time job for thousands of people everyday.

Look, I just read a comment here asking when we were "closing all the mosques". Put that in an email and the media will frame their story around that. The media is inflammatory. That's simple enough to grasp from watching one nightly newscast.

#232 buck

Way to go.

So let's see:

Elaine Jarvik and Deborah Bulkeley can't even get the basic facts straight. Re: The Soviet Union.

Elaine Jarvik and Deborah Bulkeley can't even spell Doug Hooper's name correctly.

Elaine Jarvik and Deborah Bulkeley admit that they don't follow fundamental journalistic practices. Re: contacting Charles before they smear him.

Yet, they expect us to lap up their opinions as gospel.

Brilliantly ignorant.

119 amphibian

I am sure that those killed and those near them, felt terror.

You would have too. Heart racing. Adrenalin.

He.

Was.

A.

Terrorist.

Wake up !

It isn't just the MSM ignoring the elephant in the room:

Meanwhile, the FBI said Wednesday it has no reason to believe the shooting spree that killed five people in a shopping mall was an act of Islamic terrorism, leaving a young Bosnian immigrant's motives a mystery.

"It's just unexplainable," FBI agent Patrick Kiernan said. "He was just walking around and shooting everybody he saw."

And this gem:

Talovic was only 4 when he and his mother fled their village of Talovici on foot after Serbian forces overran it in 1993, people close to the family told The Associated Press.

He lived as a refugee in Bosnia from 1993 to 1998, when his family moved to the United States, they said.

During that period, he spent some time in Srebrenica, the northeastern enclave where up to 8,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered in 1995 by Serb forces.

Talovic left Srebrenica two years before the massacre, but acquaintances suggested it may have left an indelible mark on the quiet little boy they knew.

"That's why I'm convinced the war did this in Utah," said Murat Avdic, a friend of the family. "There cannot be any other reason."

Yep, a massacre that happened two years AFTER he left the area as a small child, that's what did it!

#234 Sharmuta
The problem is any news outlet withholding facts from their audience. It then ceases to be news, and becomes propaganda.

Exactly. What is the criteria for withholding facts? Can we trust anything the news says?
/pandora's box, media
//do you understand yet?

#9 Killgore Trout 2/15/2007 08:41AM PST

Repost from the dead thread:
Dramatic Home Video Shows Utah Mall Rampage

The video isn't graphic. This is what I hear at 1:03....
Voice #1: "Allahu Ackbar"
Voice #2: "This is the police, put the gun down"

Can anyone clean up that audio?

I watched the video & I did not hear anything that sounded like "Allahu Ackbar."

#9 Killgore Trout
Dramatic Home Video Shows Utah Mall Rampage

The video isn't graphic. This is what I hear at 1:03....
Voice #1: "Allahu Ackbar"
Voice #2: "This is the police, put the gun down"

Can anyone clean up that audio?

Killgore (and everyone):

I've listened to the tape very carefully. No one is shouting "Allahu Ackbar!" There is only one voice in that audio segment, and I can say with near certainty that it says this (exactly):

Voice #1: "Drop the gun! Salt Lake Police! Put down the gun now!"

I'd be the first to jump on this if there was anything to it, but no: Talovic is not audible in this video. Just the cop.

Listen again and you'll hear what I mean.

It would be nice if someone here knew how to clean up audio clips, and somehow remove all that reverb. I'm sure it can be done.

#231 Geepers

I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, we don't need to be giving them better ammunition, which they will use to tar the entire LGF community and beyond.

#237 Charles
I tried different EQ settings and a few filters but couldn't find anything to make to audio more intelligible. It's tough to even tell different voice apart. Unfortunately the video doesn't really shed any light on the situation.

#226 Kenneth

I think you are confusing two different definitions of the term "profiling".

On the contrary, I'm drawing the parallel. Both forensic profiling and the pejoratively-termed "racial profiling" use the same principle: is there a pattern here that would allow us to select a subset of the total population for closer scrutiny, so we are not wasting our resources looking through the entire general population?

My very point is that the PC crowd is intimidating us AND our law enforcement officials from using legitimate means to protect ourselves from certain violence-prone subsets of our population.

#251 Taqiyyotomist
I'm pretty good at cleaning up audio and I had no luck. There's no real way to take out the reverb once it's on the recording.

#237 Charles
I listened to the audio on that video at LiveLeak, by the way, and I do not hear "Allahu Akbar." The only audible voices seem to be the cops'.

See my comment #250 above for an exact transcription of what is actually said. If you listen again while reading the words, it'll be clear to you.

doppelganglander (#247),

Yep, a massacre that happened two years AFTER he left the area as a small child, that's what did it!

The media will be making excuses for this MURDERER 'till the cows come home.

Any excuse, no matter how absurd will be trotted out to deflect attention away from this guy intentionally MURDERING five people.

If he wasn't a Muslim, if it weren't Jihad, the gun control parade would already be marching in WDC. Draw your own conclusions. What is not said is more important than what is said when dealing with MSM stories.

One thing that's unique about this story, however, is that they are acknowledging the fact that people believe there might be a jihadi connection. Most papers and news outlets gloss over this completely.

#43 kateca

Reminds me of twenty years ago when the MSM couldn't bring themselves to mention a person's race if that person was black: "Suspect is described as a 6' tall male, black hair and brown eyes." Maybe throw in a clue like "suspect has an afro".

This is baloney. Media outlets generally have specific policies re what they say in identifying people, and they explicitly do mention race when it is relevant to the story. In stories about crime, the perpetrator's race is mentioned if he or she is still at large and knowledge of race might help a member of the public identify the person.

It would be nice to know what the cameraman heard.

248 Carolyn

What is the criteria for withholding facts? Can we trust anything the news says?
/pandora's box, media
//do you understand yet?

Clearly, they don't understand. So they attack Charles. Nevermind that this is about the audience being informed with facts and drawing their own conclusions.

Buck, good work.

Interesting to see if they have credibility to contact Charles, asking for a statement.

It is absolutely mind blowing how quickly their words can be assessed.

The same amount of time they can put out their article regarding this situation, and attempting to make their own point, this site has the ability to counter on a substantive basis.

They know this, a caveat for print journalism. Trump hands now reduced to pairs, requiring countenance for discernment.

I see your Soviet religious oppression, and raise you a Warsaw Pact.

85 dicentra

If he was waging jihad, he'd have at least popped off a good "Allahu akbar" at some point, but he didn't

On the above video @ 1:38 I hear three shouts of Allah Akbar.

This reeks of jihad.

227 Sgt.Slappy

#96 Pawn...

we have absolutely no idea what the shooter's motivation was yet?

Gee, I guess you're right. There's no possible merit to the suspicion of a connection with being muslim, and yet another murderous rampage.

Just like no connection between the dead lambs and the coyote with the full belly and blood on his fur.

Right.

Got it.

Thanks.

No fatwa note or final video. Acted alone. No witnesses heard "Allahu Akhbar", which any Jihadi worth his six dozen virgins would have been yelling. No apparent attempt to attack Jewish or specifically Christian targets. Family has no freaking idea why he went off the deep end. Not seen at local mosques. Recent photo shows no beard. Described as "socially isolated". No word yet about internet sites on his computer, beheading videos on DVD, or any other Jihad strangeness.

Aside from his name being Suleiman, there's no indication that this is SJS. Believe it or not, it's actually possible that "Muslim" does not automagically equal "Murderer". I'm not ready to instantly assume the worst on near-zero evidence. The only indicator of Jihad so far is the name he was born with.

#250 zombie
After a few more listenings I think you nailed it. It does sound like that segment is one voice and not two.