re: those cloned 3 bags on the left.

There's a 4th (probably the orginal) in the lower right by the two boxes of bullets!

#1 Killgore Trout
you forgot to say "Firsties!"

It's fauxtographically excellent ?
It will be published all over the world !

Thanks, Charles.

The Flash animation for some reason doesn't include my first caption "Same wrinkles!" in which I show that, as KillGore notes in #1, the olive drab bags in the upper left are all cloned from the bag at lower right that the Photoshopped-in ammo box is "leaning" on.

Dar, way to go!

Shame on you , Trout!

Desperate, aren't they?

Here we go again. . .

Great catch, Dar ul Harb. Saw it earlier in the previous thread.

Nice try Iran

That doesn't appear to be Ball ammunition

#6 Roger
My etiquette sucks.

We'll call it the FARCE News Agency

all it needs now is a GI Joe with explosives sitting nearby and the MSM will be all over it

JJ

There's a particularly nasty aliased cut line around the olive drab bag that's lying diagonally across all the others as well. Note also that the shadows in the holes in bags fall in opposite directions, a tell-tale sign they've been "flipped" horizontally in Photoshop.

More info from MeanMrMustard from this morning:

That's just plain old Olin Winchester White Box ammo, it's not government issue, just made in the USA. It's the old style box that was used about 20 years ago, the current box actually says Winchester on the front instead of on the back. You can buy it at Wal-Mart.

I'm looking at an actual box (in the same printing style) of .357 as I type.

He posted a pic too:

Here's my similar style box - USA ammo

# 11 fluffy

Look more like Winchester Silver Tips, a hunting round.

So we know it is fake, the illiterate jihadist doesn't. Remember propaganda is aimed at the home audience not the enemy so much.

Eighty rounds of AK ammo is a lame "arsenal" even if it's not an obvious photoshop.

MeanMrMustard noted earlier...

That's just plain old Olin Winchester White Box ammo, it's not government issue, just made in the USA. It's the old style box that was used about 20 years ago, the current box actually says Winchester on the front instead of on the back. You can buy it at Wal-Mart.

I'm looking at an actual box (in the same printing style) of .357 as I type.

He even took a pic of his ammo box with LGF in the background.

7.62x39 to fit our world famous AKs?

What's the difference? The Democrats are trying to help the Iranians kill Iraq anyway...

Senate Democrats May Seek Measure Altering Iraq Role
[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

``We authorized him going to Iraq and we can modify that authorization,'' Levin said on the ``Fox News Sunday'' program. He said the Senate could vote to ``limit the mission of American troops to a support mission instead of a combat mission.''

Next time we ask anyone to purple their finger and vote they'll give us the finger.

#16 Geepers
oops, I'm slow today.

Can anyone I.D. the silvery cans which I presume are some kind of grenade?

Also, the challenge is up to find the source images for the ammo boxes, which I suspect were cut out of someone's product catalog pages somewhere on the web...

That ammo is about 10 times too big. Makes it look scarier.

They probably got the pic from Cabela's website.

Breaking(?): explosion at McDonald's in St. Petersburg, Russia

The only weapons we have that fire 7.62 ammo, besides sniper rifles comes in belts not boxes. The sniper ammo does not come in these type boxes either. Those grenades are from the first half of the last century
But once again it doesn't matter that we know it is fake in a region where a movie about Americans helping Jewish doctors harvest organs is considered a documentary.

#21 BignJames

7.62x39 to fit our world famous AKs?

That's what I am seeing, but I know there are lizards more expert than I.

Ball: [Link: images.ask.com...]

AK: [Link: www.thegunner.net...]

16 Geepers

I was wondering what the obscured fine print on the edge of the box said. Obviously the warning should have included keeping it out of reach of jihadists, too.

In one way, I'm sorry it's not true. We ought to arming insurgents in Iran.

But Congress would have a collective cow, so we're not.

Which makes this really, really pathetic.

#26 victor_yugo
Several injured in blast at Russian McDonald's

An explosion caused by a suspected bomb in a McDonald's restaurant in Russia's second city of St Petersburg on Sunday injured at least five people, officials said.

A police spokesman told Reuters there had been an explosion in the restaurant on Nevsky Prospect, the city's main thoroughfare, and that five people had been wounded.

Police said their initial information was that the blast was caused by "an explosive device", but the spokesman said they had yet to identify what sort of device it was.

Most likely RoP.

#28 fluffy 2/18/2007 11:14AM PST

I'm sure there are more, but the only American made firearms that I know of chambered for that round are the Ruger mini 30 and TC Contender....not exactly military spec.

Killgore Trout! GMTA.

Hell, I have more ammo than that laying around on my coffee table.

#31 Kilgore Trout

Maybe; that's usually a safe assumption when McDonalds or KFC is involved. On the other hand, if the manager was behind on protection money, the Russian mob's quite capable of planting a bomb, too.

#26 victor_yugo
I blame Morgan Spurlock!

Most of that equipment looks pretty archaic; there's no weapon in the US army that fires non-match round 7.62mm, except machine guns, which have belted (ie linked together) ammo. Loose rounds need not apply. The packaging for the demo-charges looks very old, which doesn't disqualify it per se, but does shed some very shady light.

And then the blatant cloning and fauxtography. Pretty sneaky, Iran! Just not quite good enough.

#26

Anti-Moscow rebels Muslim Jihadis linked to Russia's Chechnya region have mounted a spate of bomb attacks on civilians in Russia but there has been no major attack outside the turbulent North Caucasus region for more than two years.

Clarifying al-Reuters' fog.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

The AK-47 Ammo Crises

Gun runners worldwide were shocked late last year when the found the price of the favorite ammunition, the 7.62x39 (diameter and length, in millimeters) round used in the AK-47, doubled in price. For decades, this 7.62x39 was the cheapest rifle ammo available, selling for as low as ten cents per round. Even the highest quality ones rarely sold for more than twenty cents a round. But suddenly, hardly anything was under twenty cents, and the reason was massive orders from the United States. The Americans were laying in supplies for their Iraq and Afghan allies. Both of these nations had been working down supplies left over from Cold War era stockpiles, but all that stuff was pretty much gone, and there was still lots of fighting going on. Moreover, those crazy Americans were insisting that Afghan and Iraqi security personnel learn to shoot their AK-47s accurately. That took a lot of ammo.

There's like 70 million AK's out there.

#34 mazeman, be careful, don't spill the coffee. Might make some duds.

11, 17

It is commercial (retail) packaged ammo produced by Winchester to US government specs and sold as USA "generic" brand. I've actually got a bunch of this stuff, and it is indeed 123gr FMJ Ball, standard military loading for this caliber.

You still see this stuff at the gun shows all the time.

BTW "Ball" has nothing to do with the shape of the projectile, it is a term that generally describes any full-metal-jacket military bullet.

This picture, even if it were not so laughably embellished, "proves" absolutely nothing. It would be surprising indeed, if Iran, with proxies in Iraq, Lebanon, and Afghanistan, could not get hold of a small amount of U.S.-manufactured ordnance. Just_A_Grunt has this one pegged.

Besides which, if the USA is not providing material support to anit-government guerillas in Iran, they should be!

Old Winchester "White box" ammo sold at Walmart and gun shows. I have a bunch of 223 in the same packaging. Not mil issue BTW.

What a childish hoax - but did we expect anything more?

I do hope we provide a helping hand when the Iranian people, finally too sick of their lot to stand by, shrug off their oppressors and rejoin the free world.

Hopefully the Mullahcracy will be the last to hang from construction equipment in the street.

Oh, and when we do lend a hand, I doubt it will be 40-year-old pineapple grenades, theatrical smoke grenades, and giant prop replicas of AK ammo.

#16 Geepers

I don't think a military issue box would say "keep out of reach of children". But who knows these days?

I can understand that they would want to photoshop in some American ammo but why photoshop the bags? It's not like they couldn't find some old bags somewhere.
Why fake them?

#46 Killgore Trout

Just lazy. And they think their new toy (photoshop) is cool.

And just in case you didn't see it from the thread below:

Good job! Dar ul Harb and ec marm.

#45 Earth2moonbat

I don't think a military issue box would say "keep out of reach of children".

Maybe the military issue says "Keep out of reach of Iranians".

I see better photoshops on Something Awful every damn week.

Heh.

Love the name of the news agency - FARS...

Or is it "farce"?

In addition to what's already been pointed out - why on earth are the 7.62x39 rounds so HUGE in comparison to the other items? There's no obvious table for them to sit on or anything, and while I'm no expert in the field of military equipment I know a bit about photography - that's no the work of a wide angle lens.

This is beyond childish.

Should we all brace for a Drudge-alanche?
P.S. don't forget to Digg it.

I also have some real U.S. mil ammo, the boxes are plain brown natural cardboard, no markings, 20 per box. It's all "ball ammo", full metal jacket. The cartridge headstamp would be final word.

The ammo packaging and the duping of the picture say this is a funny hoax done by not so smart people. Probably good enough to fool the NY Times and WashPost reporters though.

In a way, I think the MSM media is responsible for this. While we all know the fauxtography that occurred at Reuters, most of the media ignored it. That told the Iranians that they could do the same and hardly anyone would notice it.

Charles, I love you and what you've done, and I love how you bring this stuff to the light, but it's not enough sometimes. The silence of the mass of MSM means that our opponents will feel they can Photoshop with impunity.

#53 bill-tb

The ammo packaging and the duping of the picture say this is a funny hoax done by not so smart people. Probably good enough to fool the NY Times and WashPost reporters though.

Hahaha, that's true, too. Thanks for the laugh.

Hey I have been looking for my bomb kit. Oh that USA box well I just use it for First Aid supplies. I swear on the Koran.

. We can't be sure of anything until these weapons are examined by Bat Boy.

Hey, Farrrrrrrrrssssssssssss...

Good work by ec marm and Dar.

I believe the ammo is so large just to show the box with USA on it, it is clearly just an enlargement. Nothing sinister there.
Or, perhaps, it is ammo for allah's ak-47, or John Wayne's.
It is commercially available civilian ammunition that has nothing to do with the USA government and can, as noted, be bought at any civilian gun or hunting store (or mail order, or anywhere you buy your anti-infidel weaponry). That is infidel piercing ammunition, by the way....

#53 bill-tb
Same thot occured to me. And is there army issue AK 47 ammo anyway? I will Google.

Pee-Wee Herman rhetoric... "I know you are but what am I?"

I wouldn't put it past Putin's KGovernmentB to set off a bomb and declare martial law all over Russia. Ivan the Terrible? Vladimir the Homicidal. No no, don't shoot, I'm not a journalist....

bill-tb (#53),

Don't be surprised if they still run with it.

They really want it to be true:

CNN’s Cafferty Draws Moral Equivalence Between Iran and United States

During the Monday edition of the "Situation Room," Jack Cafferty discussed U.S. allegations that Iraqi militants are killing American soldiers with weapons provided by Iran. At the conclusion of the "Cafferty File" segment, the CNN host engaged in the always reliable media tradition of moral equivalence, comparing Iran’s action to U.S. support of Afghan rebels in the 1980s. Apparently, the fact that America was opposing the brutal Russian regime, whereas, in this case, Iran is the oppressive entity, makes no difference. Cafferty and "Situation Room" host Wolf Blitzer also exhibited skepticism about the United State’s timing in making these accusations:

Really excellent work. I know most of you take all this technology stuff for granted but I'm still in awe of how knowledgeable and talented LGFers are. Since the first fauxtography scandal I've never looked at a news photo the same way. Thank you Charles for the education.

That being said, I agree with #18. This is aimed at the average illiterate who hasn't a clue what photoshopping is. The photos don't even have to be done well. Depressing, very depressing.

I found a fauxtography link at snopes.com.

There is a military catagory.

hmmm, I wonder as to the history of this? Did snopes get it from Charles?

well, since half of the picture is FAKE, are we to assume half of the story is fake as well.....?

just to be cautious, I am just going to assume the entire story is a phony.

Good job LGF and Dar Ul Harb......once again this website and 'crazy right wing' sites have pointed out what the mainstream media will not even question......

maybe this is the reason GOOGLE will not put LGF on the news listings!

Have a GREAT SUNDAY LGF readers, keep up the good fight and keep turning over EVERY SINGLE news story that comes across the UPI-REUTERS-AP news wires.....

it seems as if this (LGF and websites like it) are one of the best defenses against the worldwide indoctrination from the enemy and socialists left.

Lets all admit it, LGF is part of (has been for a long time) the global defensive (and offensive) war against Radical Islam and the socialists/leftists media......

LGF readers and posters, consider yourselves part of the Army of Truth and Frontline Warriors in this fight of our generation (and possibly the next few generations that follow)......
the enemies of the West ARE Radical Islam and the lies and coverups from the global mass media, I am honored to be a small part in the LGF Army of Truth!

Congrats, Dar ul Harb, on your Flash animation skills being acknowledged! Quite an excellent job. You shall go down in history as a fauxtography-buster.

This incompetent attempt at fauxtography is laughable at best (the upper left corner- need I say more?). It will be interesting to see if the ap & reuters pick up this story, or if they have learned from their own previous faux pas.

#14 jjmckay
all it needs now is a GI Joe with explosives sitting nearby and the MSM will be all over it

LOL!

Anybody have a link to the GI Joe jihadi video from Iraq ca. 2004/5?

I know it is early in the thread to post OT, but I can't stay on-line and I have to share this.

It's a tear-jerking reminder that we are "The Shining City on the Hill"

Have a great day all!

ec marm--are you going to put that up on your site?

Geepers--I draw a moral equivalence between Jack Caffery and a snake, though I actually have more respect for snakes.

What a jerk.

#70 zombie

I remember that. That's why LGF search needs to go back more than a year. That was hillarious.

#58 Mandy
You're hanging out with that Skippy way too much. Nigel is getting jealous.

zombie,

Check over at Hot AIr. Just a couple of days ago they had the latest staged Al Qaeda video and had the GI Joe photo up. Maybe from Thursday or Friday. I can check when I get back in a bit if you can't locate it.

BTW, Allahpundit just linked this thread.

Gee Charles: Why don't you show the good photographs the isdiotslamists produce? Huh? You never show us their goood stuff. The nice things the rop does around the world. Like the comfortable linings used so homicide bombers aren't chafed. Stuff like that. Huh, Show that for a change.

Zombie -

Here it is.

Here it is!

GI Joe jihadi video!

You will laugh until you cry.

The figure in the photo appeared stiff and expressionless, and the photo’s authenticity could not be confirmed.

Hahahahaha!

zombie,

Another link for it.

#77 Earth2moonbat

You beat me by a nose at the wire.

#78 zombie

Page not available on the link. Oh, well......

Darned entertaining, this!

#78 zombie

And we still get media appologists here who say they're doing a good job.

It seems like if they skipped a couple of prayer sessions they could do some studying and practice on Photoshop. I can't believe it's so hard to find someone that can fake things accurately. Gee whiz!

They must have someone like Iahawk that does their photoshopping but they don't know he is making fun of them.

7.62 is the caliber, or bore diameter, in millimeters. It translates to .30, or "30 caliber". This does not tell you everything about the cartridge. There have been several 30 caliber cartridges, including the 30-30, the 30-40 Krag (Spanish American War era) and others. The cartridge case, usually brass, which holds the primer and powder, has to fit the gun, and there are considerable differences.

In modern military usage, the caliber and case length are given in millimeters. The second number is the case length, in millimeters. The 7.62x39 is used in the AK47 and the semiauto SKS, the latter of which are imported into the US from Chinese makers. This round has no US military use, now or ever.

The US has used three 7.62 cartridges that I know of. The 7.62x57 is also known as 30.06, or Springfield cal .30 of 1906. This is the WWI Springfield and WWII Garand and BAR, plus .30 machine gun round. The 7.62x51 is also known as the 7.62 NATO and .308. This was the Korea round. There was also a .30 carbine, basically a hot pistol round, used in WWII and some thereafter. I do not believe the 30-40 Krag had a metric designation.

7.62 x39 is popular mostly because the imported rifles are cheap, and so is the ammo. The SKS is not particularly accurate, but it is simple and rugged.

Now wait a second...am I the only one to see an inconsistency between the size of the 7.62mm rounds and the grenades? Are those really tiny grenades or really big 7.62mm rounds?

Or is it just me?

#72 JammieWearingFool

ec marm--are you going to put that up on your site?

Been keeping busy crazy all weekend with Grandsons. Only had time to toss the link for the pic "out there" this a.m. and ask for help with it. Since I usually make phony Photoshops myself, I don't want to touch it. It belongs right here. Hope Drudge picks it up. I'll bet FNC will have it on, maybe by Monday. Dar did a great job. What a site this is!

#86 flipflop

The part inside the red circle is a blow-up. Still, the scale doesn't seem consistent between the grenades and the boxes outside of the circle.

ec marm,

It's here now as well.

House Poised To Approve Non-Binding Ammunition For Iraq

Bullet- Free Cartridges Permit Continuation Of War Without Generating Consequences

House Democrats revealed their planned resolution to send a new type of ammunition to Iraq on Monday, that will help support the troops while not supporting their mission.

Called non-binding ammunition (NBA), the materiel is part of an advanced weapons program that uses a bulletless cartridge to generate incredible noise and clouds of hot gas, while having little to no effect on its target. If the non- binding ammunition resolution is approved, US troops could be outfitted in as little as two months, patrolling the streets of Baghdad with “a terrifying, thunderous cacophony seldom seen outside the context of a John McCain appearance.”

“Our best intelligence estimates show that for every conventional round we fire, we’re creating between 10 to 100 terrorists,” said one intelligence analyst... He continued: “The bullet-free, non-binding cartridge protects our troops by preventing dangerous terrorist reproduction, and also saves them from innumerable therapy sessions by limiting their exposure to the carnage of war. Best of all, because it’s lead free, it’s safe for the environment!”

“Really, do our troops deserve any less?” asked Steny Hoyer, D-Md., the House Majority Leader. “Seriously. Do they? Because if they do—- I’ll consider voting for that as well.”

Everybody knows we buy our ammo from Israel anyway. Next time maybe they will show something with Made in Israel on it to prove that giant Zionist conspiracy.
/

#86 flipflop

I think they intended just to enlarge the box to "show" it was US-made, since there are other, smaller boxes laying there. But to do this, they used the same photoshopping technique (the only one they know?) as they did in the rest of the image.

Either that, or they're really stupid and believe we're really gullible.

As a whole buncha Lizards have already chimed in...

===

The ammo box -

Winchester-Olin civilian pattern 7.62x39 for AK series rifles.

Stratpage is correct (of course) in that there is currently a worldwide shortage of 7.62x39 ammo. However, there are no shortages in the stockpiles that Saddam left behind in Iraq.

The shortage is in good quality, well stored ammo.

If by some odd chance we are supplying an Iranian anti-Mullah crew with small arms ammo, I seriously doubt it would have been shipped in from the USA, or left in it's original packing. Not when there are billions of rounds of the same stuff freely available right next door.

===

The grenades:

Are standard Russian/Chinese RGD-5 pattern. Note the tall fuse tube at the top of the pineapple. No Western made grenade features that tall fuse holder.

Post-World War II production only and made by almost every single nation that uses Russian/Chinese pattern equipment and has the production capacity to do so, including Iran. The Soviet WW2 production F-1 and RG-42 grenades have more of a soup can-like and less of a pineapple appearence.

Both Iraq and Iran produce (d) their own copies of the F-1, RG-42, and RGD-5 hand grenades. Iraqi production ceased the day that the US Army made its Thunder Run into Baghdad.

Iranian manufactured RGD-5's have shown up as far away as Indonesia and South America, and in the hands of almost every single Moslem terrorist group in the world.

Iranian manufactured PPsH-41 submachineguns and G-3 assault rifles continue to show up inside Iraq, as well as the Austrian sniper rifles.

===

This faux was clearly put out as a response to US displays of Iranian weapons captured/recovered inside Iraq. That the Iranians would do so only serves to futher confirm Iranian interference inside Iraq.

BUSTED,
R

#88 E2M

Ah, thanks. Now I see the "normal" sized boxes of ammo to the right. I didn't realize that was a blow-up.

The Iranians seem to be getting a little nervous about GWB's intentions don't you think.

It looks like the full sized picture already got disappeared.

#94 flipflop

But as I say, even the small boxes look too big compared to the grenades. I think they started out with seperate pictures of everything.

I remember the saying: "The camera doesn't lie."

Welcome to the Brave New Fauxworld!

#95 Bobblehead

No, they actually had a terrorist attack in Iran that blew up a bus and killed 18 people. They're just trying to pin it on the US, rather than admit that they have internal problems.

If you can't trust Fars, who can you trust.

Next thing you now AP and Reuters will be Photoshopping.

Oh! they have already.

In the that case the next thing is they be saying 9/11 was faked.

Damn.

The moon landing?

The 2000 election?

I guess nothing is too outrageous.

At least celebrities still wear underwear.

96 Earth2moonbat

It looks like the full sized picture already got disappeared.

That's funny. The article clearly states they will release the relevant documents, photographs and film footage to the public and media in the "near future". I guess the future has come and gone.

/FARS News must have gotten JustMyView's talking points memo.

#81 Earth2moonbat
#78 zombie

Page not available on the link.

Works for me perfectly fine.

# 98 S L

I remember the saying: "The camera doesn't lie."

Obviously uttered by somebody who never worked as a darkroom tech.

#102 zombie

The LGF thread comes up, but the link to the MyWay story in the old thread is dead. Probably just archived.

#103 Mike C.

True. Mr. Stalin was pretty good at disappearing people from photos.

flipflop (#86),

That's exactly what made ec marm take a second look this morning.

#339 ec marm 2/18/2007 05:19AM PST

Morning all. This picture is kind of interesting. The Iranians had some sort of attacks on their soil and seem to be drawing a U.S. connection. I'm far from an expert, can someone look at this pic and tell me if it's bull? Scale wise, look at the hand grenades at the back, then the cartridges circled in the front.

Just think if they would have done a better job of making the inset look like an inset, maybe no one would have scrutinized it so hard and exposed all the fakery.

E2m

So long as you're working in B&W, it is amazing what you can do.

#105 Earth2moonbat 2
Mr. Stalin was pretty good at disappearing people from photos.

Here's a very good link:

The original fauxtography, Soviet-style.

Malkin has it up now.

DIGG disclaimer

I finally had the time to register and I came to know that someone else is using the name Poitiers.

That's not me ! I am PLepanto there.

E2M, thanks for the memories, I remember well even in the 60's people disappeared in May day Parade pictures.

Congrats to the LGFers who helped break this story!

Man, The Islamist-Left axis propaganda machine is taking on water pretty fast.

I Dugg it. Up to 39 Diggs.

#112 Pro-Bush Canuck

/Media defender mode on

You wouldn't have been able to debunk this story if it wasn't reported in the media to begine with. You need the media, you leach. You're living off of their work. Do your own reporting.

/Media defender mode off

54 vx,

In a way, I think the MSM media is responsible for this.

I haven't seen this photo published anywhere as "evidence" of US weaponry in Iran. Has it been?

we're in 3rd place in the Upcoming Stories at digg. Anyone know how many diggs before it goes to the front page?

Mike C. #103
_______________
# 98 S L

I remember the saying: "The camera doesn't lie."

Obviously uttered by somebody who never worked as a darkroom tech

.
Good call, Mike! Please, help youself to my fruitcup!
Heh! I wonder how many others ( like myself, he said shamefacedly) never even considered that!

#115 Cognito

I think it's fair to say that government news agencies like FARS are under the heading of "MSM", every bit as much as BBC and NPR are. They certainly aren't "alternative" media.

115 Cognito

I haven't seen this photo published anywhere as "evidence" of US weaponry in Iran. Has it been?

I think over at the Fars News agency.

Terrorist attack? Did they say terrorists? In my opinion its the work of militants.

118 E2M,

I think it's fair to say that government news agencies like FARS are under the heading of "MSM", every bit as much as BBC and NPR are. They certainly aren't "alternative" media.

You're cracking me up. FARS is such a different animal from the "MSM" that to say otherwise is just hilarious.

Oh, man. Cracking me up.

OT: Finally got my Stuck Mojo CD. It is labeled Stuck Mojo on the package, and Canada Customs let it pass straight through. We'll see what happens if some Muslim complains to one of Canada's notorious Star Chamber-like "Human Rights Trubunals".

#110 myself

What am I doing ?
I defend an "anonymous identity" !?

Oxymoronically speaking, it's interesting...

So NPR is better than FARS? It's even a stretch to say NYT is better than FARS.

#121

FARS is such a different animal from the "MSM"

Differentia specifica, please ?

Same side of the war, IMnotHO.

124 E2M,

So NPR is better than FARS? It's even a stretch to say NYT is better than FARS.

No offense, but you're being absurd.

Ever been to a country with a state-run press?

Parrottheads rejoice. Mooqy "Buffett" Al-Sadr sings one of your all-time favourite songs:

Nibblin’ on pita.
Puttin’ my feet up.
Glad to be outta the chaos and smoke.
The surge is a-comin’
And I am a-runnin’,
And now I look like a big scaredy-cat joke.

Hidin’ away again in Ayatollahville.
Searchin’ for my lost insurgency.
Some people claim that the Jews are to blame.
Just so long as they aren't blamin' me.

I do know the reason
I’ll stay here all season.
Has somethin’ to do with savin’ my skin.
I’m hunkerin’ down now,
Stayin’ in Tehran town now.
And when the surge settles I’ll go back ag’in.

Hidin’ away again in Ayatollahville.
Searchin’ for my lost insurgency.
Some people claim that the U.S. is to blame.
Just so long as they aren't blamin' me.

#126 Cognito

Syria? Romania? NPR is no better.

At least "Pravda" admits that they're opinion.

#126 Cognito
Like England?

#126

state-run press, commies-run press, islamofascists-run press, same genus, same species.

121 Cognito

FARS is such a different animal from the "MSM" that to say otherwise is just hilarious.

Fars gets their news feed from the same two sources as the rest of the msm, do they not? That's a small gene pool for the breeding of media animals.

But the Dems will believe it. They won't believe our military, but they'll believe this.

129 E2M,

Okay. Fine. The Fars News Agency -- run by the government of Iran -- is better than our American press.

Good luck with your news.

Dang - All of my 7.62 39 mm is made in China. :-)

I've been to a number of countries with state-controlled media. Spent years in them. Still, crappy work is crappy work.

#134

Well well, our "American" press has elected a pro-terrorists Congress.
fars can't do that...
so, in fact, they are better !

Cognito (#126),

Ever been to a country with a state-run press?

Britain.

So anyway, are you defending this photoshop, or just trying to change the subject?

65 Diggs. Some good comments, too.
btw: I'm not here.

#135 Dasher

All of my 7.62 39 mm is made in China.

CHINA IS ARMING AMERICAN INSURGENTS !

Unbelievable.

134 Cognito

The Fars News Agency -- run by the government of Iran -- is better than our American press.

From the sense that fars isn't trying to sabotage their country's national interests- yes, yes they are.

To point out the obvious. When the US funds guerella movements, they use sanitized equipment and munitions. We have tons of these weapons and munitions that are available, either awaiting destruction or reissue/reuse. I, like many other posters in here, have never seen munitions and explosives with US labels or weapons with US serial numbers used in any operations like this run by the US military or the agency.
What kind of rookies does Iran have to try this kind of deception operation? But, there are enough moonbats unfamiliar with these type ops to believe it.

Totally off topic but, I'm so pissed at Billary with her withdraw in 90 days crap that all I can say is Fine. Pull out our troops, let them go through hell coming home but, redeploy them to the Mexifornia border and all the ports and points of entry to the US. Seems only fair to me. Of course it will never happen. We're basically gonna suffer another Nam defeat and all the dems will be so f'ing proud of themselves. I hope all the Iraqis that Bush lets into the country are gonna move to Long Island. Right down the road from Bill and Hillary. Oh, amd let's have a few hundred of them move next to Murtha and algore and Nancy Pelosi. I'm just so pissed at the way this country is being over run by the ahole, whiney dems. I hope they all rot in hell. I can't even enjoy Daytona.

#139 Jamil Hussein

Hanging out in Iran these days?

Nice catch!

Fauxphotography photoshopper - watch your asses, cuz you can bet we're watching YOU.

LGFers rock.

I am under the impression that Cognito should come to LGF only incognito...

#143 Outrider

I, like many other posters in here, have never seen munitions and explosives with US labels or weapons with US serial numbers used in any operations like this run by the US military or the agency.

Much less warning labels that say keep out of reach of children.

Outrider (#143),

What kind of rookies does Iran have to try this kind of deception operation?

I think the Reuters' guys name was Adnan Hajj. He might know.

Anybody here who equates the American press with state-run Iranian press -- which is how this little facet of the conversation got started, Geepers -- deserves exactly the press they get.

Good luck with it.

#134 Cognito
Don't forget the state run Imperial Capitalist Propaganda machine that is PBS.

Since the U.S. government could buy bricks of Russian Wolf ammo online from dozens of suppliers, this has to be the worst attempted fake news since Dan Rather's moment of courage.

Registered & dug at Digg.

I hope we do support some dissident groups in Iran. But the idea that we would give them ammunition boxes with "USA" stamped on them is laughable.

#152 Beagle

Mmmmmm.........or maybe the GI Joe hostage.

#127 re: "ayatollahville".

Nicely done.

Yeah, maybe not that far back. Fake news is a growth industry.

#148 Earth2Moonbat

Much less warning labels that say keep out of reach of children.

I just watched a bunch more of 3d ID soldiers deploy last night. Some of those troops looked young enough to warrant that label. ;-)> But, they are damned good soldiers.

And 7.62x39 at that! We would buy Russian made 7.62x39. In fact, I think we did just that to supply the Iraqi Army.

Already dugg the story but how can you find it again, so you can do the thumbs up on the comments. What category is it in?

NTS should have been noted by the 1st year Draftsman.

Wanna bet we'll get exactly the same response from FARS as we do from AP and Reuters when caught in a big fat lie?

Excellent catch. At this rate, there will be enough material to make a 3 minutes Throbbing Fakes music video. All the top Throbs of the year (past two years)Maybe with a dancing GI Joe through it.

More seriously, if the photo artiste was using common off the shelf ammo boxes, does this mean that the person who put this picture together is not in Iran, but perhaps in the USA , and emailed it to the Iranian regime for them to use? They normally wouldn't be able to find such things inside their country, would they?

15 Cognito

Anybody here who equates the American press with state-run Iranian press -- which is how this little facet of the conversation got started, Geepers -- deserves exactly the press they get.

The iranian press' job is to manufacture propaganda.

The American press' job is to inform the citizenry...unless they want to withhold information from stories (Talovic), manufacture stories (TANG memo), or completely dump stories (Monica Lewinski). Then their job has turned into propaganda production.

The msm may have liberties the iranian press does not, but they have trashed their own reputations, and squandered the trust the American people placed in them.

164 Sharmuta,

The iranian press' job is to manufacture propaganda.

The American press' job is to inform the citizenry...unless they want to withhold information from stories (Talovic), manufacture stories (TANG memo), or completely dump stories (Monica Lewinski). Then their job has turned into propaganda production.

Okay. Like I said, if you're in favor of state-run press, by all means, have at it. Enjoy.

#160 TimeQuake 2/18/2007 01:15PM PST

Already dugg the story but how can you find it again, so you can do the thumbs up on the comments. What category is it in?

[Link: digg.com...]
I'm still not here

OT:
The pilot of the Mauritanian flight, interviewed on Radio France Internationale, added a few details: The hijacker walked into the cockpit (people still leave their doors unlocked in some African villages) and aimed two loaded revolvers at the pilot and co-pilot. Take me to Paris, he ordered. The pilot asked why he wanted to go to Paris, and the hijacker replied: Can’t you see all the bad things they are doing to Muslims.

Underreported

3 Chicago women found bludgeoned to death

Iranian Christians, believe it or not. Husband killed wife, sister-in-law, mother-in-law. Came to US from Iran in 1995.

wanumba (#163),

A couple of people here, MeanMrMustard first, noted that that box style is 20 years old. So it could conceivably be from before the "revolution".

#165 Cognito

Like I said, if you're in favor of state-run press, by all means, have at it.

Who was advocating that?

digg is so strange: Digg Spy
/trippy

We're open!

#95 Bobblehead

The Iranians seem to be getting a little nervous about GWB's intentions don't you think.

With good reason.

/Inshaalla

165 Cognito

Like I said, if you're in favor of state-run press, by all means, have at it.

Where did I say that? Criticism of the msm now equates to support for iranian-styled media?! The msm have made a bed for themselves, and I won't pity them for having to lie in it.

As much as I like pissing on Reuters, at least they admitted their mistake in the picture thing, fired to photog and reorganized the way they did things. Kathleen Carrol on the other hand is a lying sack of monkey pooh.

Actual photos of American hit team working inside Iran.

great googily-moogily
Digg Swarm and Digg Stack

Just as a curiosity question. I wonder what the head Kos take is on this. He was a prior service soldier and should have no problem spotting this as a fake. I wonder just how far to planet Delusion he has gone to rationalize this?

170 Earth2moonbat-

Notice how Cognito never addressed one of my points?

170 E2M,

Who was advocating that?

Don't play dumb. There's been a clear effort here to equate the free American press with Iran's state-run press, and even to -- magically -- blame the American media for this ridiculous fake Fars photo. A few of your own greatest hits, from this thread alone:

I think it's fair to say that government news agencies like FARS are under the heading of "MSM", every bit as much as BBC and NPR are. They certainly aren't "alternative" media.

And:

So NPR is better than FARS? It's even a stretch to say NYT is better than FARS.

And:

Syria? Romania? NPR is no better.

Here's the problem: When people here assert absurd crap like this, it dillutes legitimate criticism.

Are the Iranians so stupid they will pay the cost of US boxed ammo instead of the cheaper Russian or Chinese stuff? Are they picking it up at Walmart when they buy their cell phones?

#163 wanumba

More seriously, if the photo artiste was using common off the shelf ammo boxes, does this mean that the person who put this picture together is not in Iran, but perhaps in the USA , and emailed it to the Iranian regime for them to use?

Render did a fairly thorough analysis of the grenades and they're Russian or Chinese design, which are made in Iran. The ammo scale is different from the grenade scale, though. Most likely, the ammo was purchased at Wal Mart, photographed and emailed, and copied into the picture there of the grenades and packs.

A few pictures you won't see run on official Iran news orgs:

real people in Iran.

Here is a good site for real people without the lunatic government crap.

And here is a site with pics of protestors in Iran and other ME countries (as well as supporting rallies in the US) - these are BRAVE people, protesting the status quo in Iran, Egypt, etc., where doing so can get you arrested - even disappeared.

A woman breaking the law in Iran - by watching sports!

179 Sharmuta,

Notice how Cognito never addressed one of my points?

Sorry, I guess I missed them. Did you mean comments like,

Fars gets their news feed from the same two sources as the rest of the msm, do they not? That's a small gene pool for the breeding of media animals.

Because if so, I'm not even sure what your point is, much less able to address it. Fars is a state-run Iranian press. What "two sources" do you mean?

#180 Cognito

But who advocated nationalizing the media? Is criticism the same thing as advocating nationalization? What the media needs is more brass-knuckles competition. They need to feel more pain. Obviously a loss of over a half billion isn't enough to get Pinch's attention.

#181 Gooddad

Are the Iranians so stupid they will pay the cost of US boxed ammo instead of the cheaper Russian or Chinese stuff? Are they picking it up at Walmart when they buy their cell phones?

Are we so stupid that we will supply terrorists in Iran with Walmart ammunition when we have literally tons of captured Iraqi (Russian/Chinese/American, etal) ammunition in Iraq? I suspect not.

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

Iran 'fakes' US photos

American blogger says Fars News Agency used Photoshop to clone 'evidence' of US weapons

Yaakov Lappin Published: 02.18.07, 22:59 / Israel News

An Iranian state news agency used the Photoshop program to manipulate photos used by Tehran to claim that American arms and money fuelled a spate of bombings in southeast Iran .

On Sunday, Fars said in a report that terrorists using "US-gifted arsenals" were behind the bomb blasts

Bomb Blasts

11 dead in Iran bomb attack on elite force / AFP

In unprecedentd attack, car bomb rips through bus carrying members of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards in sensitive southeastern border province
Full story



which killed 11 members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards last week.

The report claimed terrorist arsenals "have been confiscated" in police raids, and included an image with a red circle drawn around bullets with a USA tag on them. US dollars were also visible in the photograph.

"The weapons that the terrorists have used are US and British made. Moreover, the arrested terrorist agents have confessed that they have been trained by English-speaking people," a senior Iranian official was quoted as saying.

'Elements cloned over and over'

But an American blogger was quick to point out that the image has been manipulated. Little Green Footballs, the weblog of Charles Johnson, who was the first to call attention to manipulated photos by Reuters during the Lebanon war , said his readers tipped him off "to a blatant Photoshop fraud in an article claiming to have discovered US weapons in Iran."

"A close look (actually, you don't have to look that closely) shows that many elements of this picture are cloned over and over," Johnson added.

The blogger reproduced a flashing animation created by one of his readers, showing that grenades, money stacks, demolition charges, cans, and ammunition boxes have all been cloned in image.

The Fars report went on promise that "relevant documents, photographs and film footages showing that the explosives and arsenals used in the attack were American would be presented to the public and media in the near future."

Killgore Trout

Funny. :) I came back here, seeing the "stack" of comments piling up.....

What I find amazing is that people will do this -- and so badly! -- knowing perfectly well that Charles or one of his lizard minions will detect their perfidy within a few moments.

Cognito (#180),

Here's the problem: When people here assert absurd crap like this, it dillutes legitimate criticism.

Let me know whenever you get around to some of that legitimate criticism Okay?

184 Cognito

Sorry, I guess I missed them.

I don't mind repeating myself-

The American press' job is to inform the citizenry...unless they want to withhold information from stories (Talovic), manufacture stories (TANG memo), or completely dump stories (Monica Lewinski). Then their job has turned into propaganda production.

And you ask:

What "two sources" do you mean?

Are you playing dumb?

I digg crappy p-shops.

Goofs.

184 Cognito

Sorry, I guess I missed them.

I don't mind repeating myself-

The American press' job is to inform the citizenry...unless they want to withhold information from stories (Talovic), manufacture stories (TANG memo), or completely dump stories (Monica Lewinski). Then their job has turned into propaganda production.

And you ask:

What "two sources" do you mean?

Are you playing dumb?

Is LGF back up?

#120 Sabraguy 2/18/2007 12:49PM PST

Terrorist attack? Did they say terrorists? In my opinion its the work of militants freedom fighters.

... so, what is Iran attempting to do here?
a) I can see that they might be wanting to consolidate hatred of America, so they attempt to show that America is behind "terrorist" attacks in Iran, but that is about the only upside here.

b) They are showing that the US has targeted them. This has only downsides for them. I mean, sure a few moonbats will go nuts over this, but if all that were being provided were materiel (even if true), most of the even only close to moonbat types wouldn't be that upset given Iran's human rights violations and their quest of atomic weapons.

c) They are attempting to insinuate a state of war between themselves and the US. That has really big downsides for them.

I just really don't see the propaganda value here.

AZfederalist (#195),

I would suspect simply to stir up (more) hatred for the US within Iran.

#68, zombie

Congrats, Dar ul Harb, on your Flash animation skills being acknowledged! Quite an excellent job. You shall go down in history as a fauxtography-buster.

My Flash animation skills are actually quite primitive, but I could do a hell of a better job with Photoshop than any of the guys that've busted on LGF so far...

(Still thinking about that website, by the way.)

Sorry for the double post- it happened right when the blog went weird.

#196 Geepers

That's the only upside I see to that story for the Iranian thugocracy. All of the other ramifications of that story have nothing but downside for them (not that there's anything wrong with that). Seems like they didn't fully think this course of action through. [What am I saying, they are Islamonazis, they don't think beyond the next homicide bombing or beheading -- never mind]

#169 Geepers
#189 E2Mb
Thanks. Sorry. I read the earlier posts too fast - to something like hadn't changed in 20 years, rather than the old style.
All those little shells and assorted grenades are just background decoration to frame the "proof" of the accusation that the US was on the ground in Iran, which is evidently a two-decades old container? Did Dan Rather have anything to do with this?

Let's hope the guys making their nukes are at the same skill level.

It looks like the Iranian Dirty Tricks Office is going to have to come up with something pretty quick because the Lizard OSS has shown yet another fraud perpetrated - this time by the Iranians to try and gin up anti-American sentiment.

This photo fraud was done not to convince the rest of the world, but to convince the Iranian people that the US is scheming against Iran. It's to rally support inside the country - knowing full well that since the mad mullahs control the media, they can control the message. It doesn't matter what bloggers found here because we're not the target audience and the Iranians themselves aren't likely to see this.

It's a prop by the mad mullahs. A real bad prop, but a prop nonetheless.

Well - What will they think of next - empty Coke and Bud cans?

-S-

...cool...front page, first story on digg as I digged it...

Stop digging it; you're overloading LGF!

Was that the "All-American" Iranian terror organization? The "Uncle Sams"? I think O.J. did it. The "O.J. Ahmouds"?

I hope you new viewers take the time to click the link on the left sidebar to view more LGF fauxtography stories.

#205 Earth2moonbat

Stop digging it; you're overloading LGF!

Really.

/the troll on the other thread still hasn't been able to apologize for posting 2004 knowledge as fact in a 2007 world

The headlines and a few other items are not loading for me. Anybody else having trouble?

Even if this is designed to gen up anti-American hatred in Iran, it could also have unintended consequences that back-fire on the mad mullahs. This could give hope to those in Iran who are chafing at the madness going on. Seeing that the Americans are supporting freedom fighters inside Iran may give them hope and renewed determination.

Now, the counter to the counter-point, we wouldn't want to disappoint them, would we?

Over 700 posts, and driving the liberals crazy. They don't like anyone seeing the truth. Truth is hard on a liberal's world view. They're digging down anything they don't agree with.

Here's a novel concept, commie. How about offering a rebuttal?

#180 Cognito

Now we're back to deliberately obtuse again.

[sigh]

I think the only error being made here is the assumption that attempting to shame the Western MSM by comparing them to Iranian State Propaganda can have any effect.

I think it's well beyond clear that the typical MSM reporter or editor lacks shame almost entirely.

Though it is intriguing to ponder how indignant the defenders of the MSM can get while proceeding without dignity.

With the widespread insanity in the U.S.A. during these times, influencing the majority of the “leaders” in Congress as well as millions of American citizens, it’s good to know that there are still folks around who are reporting on the deeds of our enemies.

I don’t have, and/or don’t take the time, to do as much investigating as you folks do. Thank you, thank you, and thank you!

I looked and looked, and in the end may have missed:
Anyone look at the kkk site kos and see if the freaks are chiming in support of the fake pictures yet?
I personally cannot look at the kos site, the anti-sematic-hate-america freaks just make me puke.
I figured they would be trying to support the fake images as proof of the mcchimpy-haliburton plot to control the world. After all, they do support terrorism and the death of the entire jewish race, I assumed they would be trying to support the fake news and pictures of iran.

Winchester White Box? Great prop, it has a big scary old Made in the USA right on the box. I think that the boys over at Christians In Action might have a spare case or two of com bloc 7.62x39 laying around just for such instances.

#65 Bobblehead
That being said, I agree with #18. This is aimed at the average illiterate who hasn't a clue what photoshopping is. The photos don't even have to be done well. Depressing, very depressing.

That was my initial reaction, but ... really who is the target audience? Wouldn't it be the "international enabler community" the goal being to put the US in a bad, emperialist light or some such blather? Which then would make your comment "This is aimed at the average illiterate who hasn't a clue what photoshopping is" especially funny.

190 Geepers,

Let me know whenever you get around to some of that legitimate criticism Okay?

Guess you haven't read much of LGF, much less my own posts. I'm wide open to criticism of the media -- I'll do it happily myself -- but nonsense is nonsense. See below.

191 Sharmuta,

Okay, fine. You said,

The American press' job is to inform the citizenry...unless they want to withhold information from stories (Talovic),

Which information on Talovic is that, please? Is there some incredible piece of evidence about his case that hasn't appeared in the press?

manufacture stories (TANG memo),

Yep. That's a good one. No argument from me there.

or completely dump stories (Monica Lewinski).

Who?

What "two sources" do you mean?

Are you playing dumb?

No. You said Fars "gets their news feed from the same two sources as the rest of the msm, do they not?" and I'm curious which two magical sources you're referring to. Bear in mind, as an apparent media expert, that Fars itself is a news agency.

.

212 Merovign,

Though it is intriguing to ponder how indignant the defenders of the MSM can get while proceeding without dignity.

If you're referring to me -- and I assume you are, as you started the post with "Cognito" -- then that's fascinating, for a couple of reasons.

First, because I'm not 'defending' the media here. I'm defending common sense. To say that our media is equivalent to a state-run Iranian press is not an insult to the media; it is an insult to logic.

Secondly, I don't believe I've shown a lack of dignity here. As a matter of fact I've always tried to respond decently to some pretty indecent language. Of course, if you've got examples to quote, I'm always willing to stand corrected.

#215 Ackomanyuki

Winchester White Box? Great prop, it has a big scary old Made in the USA right on the box. I think that the boys over at Christians In Action might have a spare case or two of com bloc 7.62x39 laying around just for such instances.

Best post, IMO, so far today.

/definitely staged for domestic consumption, we're not that dumb by an order of magnitude

#217 Cognito

I don't believe I've shown a lack of dignity here. As a matter of fact I've always tried to respond decently to some pretty indecent language. Of course, if you've got examples to quote, I'm always willing to stand corrected.

We're concerned with agenda.

/and you have one

219 Killian,

We're concerned with agenda.

/and you have one

All right. What is it?

#220 Cognito

All right. What is it?

Gee, I don't know, your LGF history speaks for itself.

/Captain Obvious

221 Killian,

Gee, I don't know, your LGF history speaks for itself.

/Captain Obvious

Well, good. Since it's so obvious, I'm sure you'll have no problem expressing it in a sentence or two. And since my history is so replete with examples, it shouldn't be too hard for you to cite an example or two.

Even if this is designed to gen up anti-American hatred in Iran, it could also have unintended consequences that back-fire on the mad mullahs. This could give hope to those in Iran who are chafing at the madness going on. Seeing that the Americans are supporting freedom fighters inside Iran may give them hope and renewed determination.

Now, the counter to the counter-point, we wouldn't want to disappoint them, would we?

217 Cognito

Okay, fine. You said,

The American press' job is to inform the citizenry...unless they want to withhold information from stories (Talovic),

Which information on Talovic is that, please? Is there some incredible piece of evidence about his case that hasn't appeared in the press?

manufacture stories (TANG memo),

Yep. That's a good one. No argument from me there.

or completely dump stories (Monica Lewinski).

Who?

Thanks for answering me, but you miss my point. I brought up Talovic, TANG and Monica as examples of msm behavior, not to argue point by point on these specific examples.

And I point out this behavior in the msm because it has altered their product from being news to being propaganda. FARS and the msm are different. FARS is a government mouthpiece, our msm is not. But at the end of the day they've both produced an awful lot of anti-American propaganda. Excuse me for noticing.

I'm curious which two magical sources you're referring to.

Glad you asked.

217 Cognito

Okay, fine. You said,

The American press' job is to inform the citizenry...unless they want to withhold information from stories (Talovic),

Which information on Talovic is that, please? Is there some incredible piece of evidence about his case that hasn't appeared in the press?

manufacture stories (TANG memo),

Yep. That's a good one. No argument from me there.

or completely dump stories (Monica Lewinski).

Who?

Thanks for answering me, but you miss my point. I brought up Talovic, TANG and Monica as examples of msm behavior, not to argue point by point on these specific examples.

And I point out this behavior in the msm because it has altered their product from being news to being propaganda. FARS and the msm are different. FARS is a government mouthpiece, our msm is not. But at the end of the day they've both produced an awful lot of anti-American propaganda. Excuse me for noticing.

I'm curious which two magical sources you're referring to.

Glad you asked.

225 Sharmuta,

Um, no. That's not an answer. You said -- again -- that "Fars gets their news feed from the same two sources as the rest of the msm, do they not?"

I'm asking what those two sources are. The two incredible sources that exclusively keep both American and Iranian media afloat.

217 Cognito

Okay, fine. You said,

The American press' job is to inform the citizenry...unless they want to withhold information from stories (Talovic),

Which information on Talovic is that, please? Is there some incredible piece of evidence about his case that hasn't appeared in the press?

manufacture stories (TANG memo),

Yep. That's a good one. No argument from me there.

or completely dump stories (Monica Lewinski).

Who?

Thanks for answering me, but you miss my point. I brought up Talovic, TANG and Monica as examples of msm behavior, not to argue point by point on these specific examples.

And I point out this behavior in the msm because it has altered their product from being news to being propaganda. FARS and the msm are different. FARS is a government mouthpiece, our msm is not. But at the end of the day they've both produced an awful lot of anti-American propaganda. Excuse me for noticing.

I'm curious which two magical sources you're referring to.

Glad you asked.

So nice I posted it twice.

217 Cognito-

The American press' job is to inform the citizenry...unless they want to withhold information from stories (Talovic),

Which information on Talovic is that, please? Is there some incredible piece of evidence about his case that hasn't appeared in the press?

or completely dump stories (Monica Lewinski).

Who?

By the way, I find your answers on these msm behaviors to be completely disingenuous.

#222 Cognito

Well, good. Since it's so obvious, I'm sure you'll have no problem expressing it in a sentence or two.

You're LGF mischief. Whether that is a good thing or not is an entirely a different matter.

/~three sentences

226 Cognito

225 Sharmuta,

Um, no. That's not an answer. You said -- again -- that "Fars gets their news feed from the same two sources as the rest of the msm, do they not?"

I'm asking what those two sources are. The two incredible sources that exclusively keep both American and Iranian media afloat.

Sorry- I gave you an answer in the link. Besides, you missed my point earlier (or did you ignore it?) and are trying to change the subject now. My point is not about news feeds, it's about propaganda. What do you have to say about that?

230 Sharmuta,

My point is not about news feeds, it's about propaganda. What do you have to say about that?

I answered you, point by point. So you said you intended " not to argue point by point on these specific examples." And futher, you called my point-by-point answers "disingenuous."

But I say that if the invidual pieces of lumber are rotten, then the house must be condemned.

231 Cognito

I answered you, point by point. So you said you intended " not to argue point by point on these specific examples."

You answered me point by point on my examples, not on the behaviors themselves. There is a difference.

231 Cognito

I wonder if I had listed those behaviors without examples if you would have demanded examples from me. That is why I added them in the first place, a pre-emptive strike you might say. So instead of discussing the merit of my arguement on msm behavior you try to spin this into an issue of my examples. May I ask, is the msm the hand that feeds you?

/And I am enjoying our debate.

You're a better man than I am, Sharmuta Din!

#14

all it needs now is a GI Joe with explosives sitting nearby and the MSM will be all over it

JJ don't you remember when the terrorists actually did capture a GI joe doll claiming it was a US soldier?

[Link: wizbangblog.com...]

groovyruby (#235),

Dang, 8 posts in 2 1/2 years? Pipe down. ;-)

Well, this story certainly has taken on a life of it's own; 1100+ posts at last check. There's been a wave or two of group-think digg-down on a whole host of posts, but luckily much of what survives should pique the curiousity of folks checking in tomorrow.

Charles, something new I've noticed is that many more people seem to be quite familiar with Little Green Footballs. This is just an anecdotal analysis on my part, but what I'm seeing is that it's not just some liberal calling us a bunch of fascists, but those kinds of posts getting shut down and rebutted by people who are quite aware of the impact LGF makes in the world marketplace of ideas. This is a dramatic change from when you first started linnking to Digg. You should be very proud of your contribution to the world stage. It makes me proud to be a lizard, and when my tax refund comes in, I'm going to send a couple bucks your way.

Thanks again, Charles. This is the most important blog there is.

232 Sharmuta,

Oh my goodness. If your examples can't even hold up, why should I address some vague theory?

Look: I don't mean to push you too hard for examples, and so forth. The American media is screwed up, and I'll be the first to stand up and say so. It's full of leftist nonthinkers, biased toward conflict instead of toward resolution. But it's not a conspiracy. The press isn't serving some agitprop master. And to say that it's equivalent to the state-run Iranian press is ridiculous almost beyond expression.

229 Killian,

You're LGF mischief. Whether that is a good thing or not is an entirely a different matter.

Eh. If that's what passes for an agenda, then that's fine. I'll take that. Because for a second there I thought you had caught onto my work here for Porsche. That's right, Porsche: Makers of fine cars, ranging from the 911 to the Cayenne.

Porsche: There is no substitute.™

My point is not is not that the msm is equatable to FARS as far as the business of news is managed. Our msm is free enterprise. FARS is state sponsored.

My point is that the end products don't differ much.

I meant diggs. 1100+ diggs.

239 Sharmuta,

My point is not is not that the msm is equatable to FARS as far as the business of news is managed. Our msm is free enterprise. FARS is state sponsored.

My point is that the end products don't differ much.

That's cool, that's your opinion as a consumer, and so it's important. I disagree, to an extent: If you ever spend time in a country where the government controls the media, you'll see there's a tremendous difference in the product. It might not seem that way to you here because, well, we're not in Iran. I suspect an Iranian dissident would have a different opinion.

But don't discount the process: It, in itself, is important. An opinion freely arrived at -- even if it's annoying, which the press often is -- carries more weight than an opinion received from a mad dictator.

238 Cognito

If your examples can't even hold up, why should I address some vague theory?

Oh, LOL! Fercryinoutloud, Cognito. This isn't about my examples (I'll defend them if you insist) but the behaviors my examples were meant to illustrate.

242 Sharmuta,

This isn't about my examples (I'll defend them if you insist) but the behaviors my examples were meant to illustrate.

All right. I'm starting to feel like a bully now, so I'll back off. But it should be pretty clear that if your examples don't stand up, they don't illustrate anything.

If I say, "Laplanders are devious," and then illustrate that with odd examples like, "Laplanders took my sandwich," and "Laplanders hunt reindeer," well... the original premise doesn't mean much.

241 Cognito

But don't discount the process: It, in itself, is important. An opinion freely arrived at -- even if it's annoying, which the press often is -- carries more weight than an opinion received from a mad dictator.

I haven't posted anything remotely close to suggesting our msm should be replaced with an iranian-styled media. I like our press structure in this country- doesn't mean I like the press.

244 Sharmuta,

I like our press structure in this country- doesn't mean I like the press.

Well for heaven's sake. That's excellent, then. We're arrived at total agreement.

243 Cognito

But it should be pretty clear that if your examples don't stand up, they don't illustrate anything.

You keep saying that. How do my examples not stand up?

245 Cognito

We're arrived at total agreement.

We have?

247 Sharmuta,

Yes, I think we have. I believe in the American press -- the Fourth Estate -- but I don't believe in the people who are manning the American press at the moment. I think we should work hard to replace them with right-thinking, common sensical reporters, photographers, editors and publishers.

Sometimes I think people here advocate throwing over the whole system, which is a huge mistake. Our free press -- despite where it stands now -- is one of the things that makes our country great.

That ball ammo is good ol' WWB (Winchester White Box). It's inexpensive practice ammo and not suitable for military use. The one shown is in a caliber that is ubiquitous all over the Middle East for the AK47 and not for U.S. weapons. There is no way the US would import it there when it could be bought far far more cheaply in the region. For the U.S. to buy it from Winchester (even from Walmart) and ship it there in a Winchester box would be idiotic. (Anyway, the head stamp on each round would give it away, even if it was in a brown box.)

But now that I think about it, prices are up and Walmart has been running kind of low on it . . .

243 Cognito

But it should be pretty clear that if your examples don't stand up, they don't illustrate anything.

I'll repeat my point again with examples removed:

The American press' job is to inform the citizenry...unless they want to withhold information from stories (example deleted), manufacture stories (example deleted), or completely dump stories (example deleted). Then their job has turned into propaganda production.

Are we still in total agreement, Cognito?

250 Sharmuta,

Yes. I don't believe the things you cited are happening systematically -- as aways, examples are welcome -- but yes, I agree with what you've laid out.

251 Cognito

I don't believe the things you cited are happening systematically -- as aways, examples are welcome -- but yes, I agree with what you've laid out.

And it only took 8 hours or so. :)

Okay, Cognito, Sharmuta - time to kiss and make up.

Dudes, I love your work, really I do. But I've read through your posts and was thinking the entire time that you guys are not too far away from each other in what you're trying to say.

Now, maybe I've missed a couple things, because I've also been posting over at Digg, as welll as on another thread and keeping an eye on Cap'ns Quarters, Powerline and scanning DailyKos - all the while loosely watching the NBA all-star game (I could care less who wins, it's just a good pick-up game).

It seems to me you both get a little indignant that one would question another. From this comes a little defensiveness that maybe he got you on something, so there's a little twist, and a nod toward "nuance" that maybe the other guy didn't pick up.

Goodness gracious. There's probably over 1200 diggs on this thread over at Digg right now, and anybody linking back here is going to see you two in a bitch-slap fight. While I admit it's an excellent demonstration to other blogs that we can and do disagree here, it was more of an example of a couple egos in a pissing match.

Nice work, dinks. Charles has company and his two drunken cousins show up and barf on the couch.

253 Noam,

Funny post, but hey man, what the heck. It's just conversation.

253 Noam Sayin'

Nice work, dinks. Charles has company and his two drunken cousins show up and barf on the couch.

At least we're polite drunken dinks who didn't have to resort to name calling to make a point. And I'm not indignant that Cognito would question my point, in fact, I welcome it.

253 Noam Sayin'

While I admit it's an excellent demonstration to other blogs that we can and do disagree here, it was more of an example of a couple egos in a pissing match.

I suppose this is the first instance in LGF history of that?

/yeah- it's sarc

#115 Cognito

In a way, I think the MSM media is responsible for this. While we all know the fauxtography that occurred at Reuters, most of the media ignored it. That told the Iranians that they could do the same and hardly anyone would notice it.

You did not reference the context of the first sentence. vxbush goes on to explain why he/she thinks the MSM is responsible. vxbush didn't say the MSM reported the story and displayed the fauxtography.

257 Lousy-ana,

Well. Without launching into a whole thing here, I'll try and sum up my point in one concise post.

In a way, I think the MSM media is responsible for this. While we all know the fauxtography that occurred at Reuters, most of the media ignored it. That told the Iranians that they could do the same and hardly anyone would notice it.

The context is crap.

Do you really think the Iranians would have showed restraint, except they had received permission from Reuters? Of course not. The people who did made this trash -- this fake photo -- were out to get the U.S. and didn't need any encouragement.

To say that the American media is somehow responsible for this is -- as I noted long ago, it seems -- absurd, and takes away from more legitimate criticisms.

#258 Cognito
First off, I did not say a damn thing you just suggested. Secondly, vxbush made an inference based on all the, "more legitimate criticisms." Your original post that started the flack by putting words to vxbush's post that were not there. In this instance context does matter.

259 Lousy-ana

First off, I did not say a damn thing you just suggested.

If I've misunderstood you, I apologize. It seemed to me you were saying that the context you cited justifies believing that the western media is somehow responsible for the Fars debacle.

Secondly, vxbush made an inference based on all the, "more legitimate criticisms." Your original post that started the flack by putting words to vxbush's post that were not there. In this instance context does matter.

Yes, context always does matter. In this case I don't think it makes the point correct, but it does matter. I didn't mean to put words in anyone's mouth, and I don't believe I did.

#258 cognito. -OT- Have you seen the latest edition of a publication called "Imprimus" (Vol36, number2) (see [Link: www.hillsdale.edu)?...] Seems that a feature film about William Wiberforce is being made by the same people that did "Narnia". The Wilberforce film is called "Amazing Grace". Check it out.

261 gymnast,

I haven't seen Imprimus, but I did just hear about the movie. I think it's being made by a British director named Michael Apted, who made Coal Miner's Daughter about a million years ago. Not sure if he actually had anything to do with Narnia, though.

I look forward to the film. I just hope they don't overlook Wilberforce's spiritual motivations. But from the title "Amazing Grace," it sounds like they won't. Should be good!

Cognito
Thank you.
Your original post is what struck me as odd:

I haven't seen this photo published anywhere as "evidence" of US weaponry in Iran. Has it been?

I do not think vxbush's post suggested that. I understand that there is no way to compare FARS to a free press. Our media, though free, are still responsible for the damage they cause with their lack of responsible, factual, and objective reporting.

263 Lousy-ana,

Agreed. My question about finding the photo published anywhere in the American mainstream media was meant to point out that, as bad as our press is, they don't distribute crap like this photo.

Sharmuta, if you've been lurking awhile before you got the chance to register last Tuesday, you would have noticed that Noam's not the guy to get into intra-lizard spats. I dressed down a couple lizards last weekend - but they personally insulted me and I spoke my peace. For the most part, I offer a little comic relief and a meaningful post or two when I'm duly motivated. So don't take the 'dink' comment as derisive as it sounded (Cogs, I think you understand that). It was just a metaphorical smack on the side of the head. I'm your buddy, Noam.

Believe me, I like to see disagreement on this blog. It's healthy and encouraging. The last thing we need here is group-think, so I'm encouraged that you guys would have it out. Meanwhile, this thing has been blowing up behind you.

This thread has been one of those few that will make a dramatic impact on the world stage, and I can't help but think that your cantankerous energy would have been much better served had you channeled it over at Digg.com, where it has been given much more life, and your insightful arguments would receive a much bigger audience.

Remember, this forum is provide free to you by Charles Johnson. The man has a lot of things going on in his life and contributes a large amount of physical and intellectual capital to it. He's accomplished a great many things with it, and although your debate tonite does contribute to that, you might want to consider that the major bog-down came from this thread. The world is watching. Not always, but on threads like this, a petty squabble about who said what and how they said it means little to the great investigative work done by EC Marm an Dar ul Harb,and others who have contributed their knowledge here.

Cognito-Sorry about the link. [Link: www.hillsdale.edu...]
That should work. Starts with "Let them at least have heard of brave knights and heroic courage"

You know, I remember ammo boxes as brown cardboard affairs, without "Canada" or "USA" writen on it, just something like "NATO 7.62 Ball".

If I was, say, a CIA spook trying to raise a rebellion in Iran, I would sorta make sure 2 brain cells are firing and get rid of "MADE IN THE USA" label.

Or not.

#264 Cognito
You are correct. I do not think our MSM would distribute junk like this either. Though Reuters and the AP have let stuff "slip through" the editing process, I do not think they would send out garbage like this.

For reference to American weapons in Iran see

www.einnews.com/iran/

The American weapons in Iran are referenced, just scroll down a bit.

265 Noam Sayin'

Remember, this forum is provide free to you by Charles Johnson. The man has a lot of things going on in his life and contributes a large amount of physical and intellectual capital to it. He's accomplished a great many things with it, and although your debate tonite does contribute to that, you might want to consider that the major bog-down came from this thread. The world is watching. Not always, but on threads like this, a petty squabble about who said what and how they said it means little to the great investigative work done by EC Marm an Dar ul Harb,and others who have contributed their knowledge here.

I have read this blog for awhile, and I can say that at least my petty squabble with Cognito was on topic. I've read far too many posts here that contribute nothing to Charles' work and do nothing but waste his bandwidth. You're right, the world is watching. I'd hope Cognito and my's debate would help spark thought out there, a lot more than discussing our private lives or running the thread off topic would have.

I laughed my ass off when I saw that picture the first time. It was so obviously fraudulent and way too timely for the Iranian gov't to come up with that. Ha!

271 Classic Conservative

I laughed my ass off when I saw that picture the first time. It was so obviously fraudulent and way too timely for the Iranian gov't to come up with that. Ha!

Haha... me too... When I saw it I thought, "These are the guys who are working with plutonium?"

234 Geepers

You're a better man than I am, Sharmuta Din!

But I'm a girl. :)