And it's NOT a mathematical term. Let's quash that rumor right now.

Is this from the smoking gun

[Link: www.thesmokinggun.com...]

Virginia Killer's Violent Writings
Play told of pedophilic stepfather, murder of 13-year-old boy

APRIL 17--The college student responsible for yesterday's Virginia Tech slaughter was referred last year to counseling after professors became concerned about the violent nature of his writings, as evidenced in a one-act play obtained by The Smoking Gun. The play by Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old English major, was submitted last year as part of a short story writing class. Entitled "Richard McBeef," Cho's bizarre play features a 13-year-old boy who accuses his stepfather of pedophilia and murdering his father. A copy of the killer's play can be found below. The teenager talks of killing the older man and, at one point, the child's mother brandishes a chain saw at the stepfather. The play ends with the man striking the child with "a deadly blow."

So, who is Ismail, if I may ax?

When I googled it, I found that some say it was related to the Koran.

The Ax of Ismail strikes Virginia Tech in the hands of a deranged student.....

#4 NiceLass
I saw that too but I think it's a bit of a stretch.

I think the kid had daddy issues. The Ismael's axe apparently referenced was also in the story if you ake the idea that his father struck him a deadly blow. Some bible stories has Ismael holding an axe rather than a knife.

Damn...HotAir is blocked on my work computer. "Streaming", it says.

Interesting development. Joel Hinrichs 2.0?

Sources told the Tribune that the words "ISMAIL AX" were also found written in red ink on the inside of one of Cho's arms.

The reference may be to the Biblical sacrifice of Abraham, in which God commands the patriarch to sacrifice his own son. Abraham begins to comply, but God intervenes at the last moment to save the boy.

In the Jewish and Christian traditions, the son is Isaac, father of the Jewish people; in Islam, it is his older half-brother, Ismail (Ishmael in Hebrew).

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Abraham uses a knife in most versions of the story, but some accounts have him wielding an ax.

A more obscure reference may be to a passage in the Koran referring to Abraham's destruction of pagan idols; in some accounts, he uses an ax to do so.

Release the mass-murderer's writings.

It will shed the light of day on the sick bastard's leanings.

shhhhhh.

we don't want to cause any backlashes
you know, the usual fears that Muslims tell us they are afraid of every time some " lone nut" AKA jihadi murders a bunch of innocent people...........you know that whole backlash thingie that never ever happens..

now you good Americans. just follow my pocket watch.

sleep...........sleeeeeep

#12 RTLM: Done.
I really want to see the note. Apparently it was quite long, suggesting he started it a couple of days ago.

Cho was definitely a freak. That much is clear.

BTW - the words of the VA Governor are utterly uninspiring.

The term has to be take in context, it was important to his deranged mind and is linked somehow to his actions. Not a math term.

Charles, that's the phrase that jumped out at me this morning when I first saw excerpts of his letter. Very strange.

All other signs right now point to this being a deranged individual with a history of odd behavior (not a “sudden jihadi”), but this is very curious.

I concur. The idea that this phrase in and of itself constitutes a solid connection to the ROP is crazy.

Perhaps he was a member of the dreaded Axe Gang?

#14 shug 4/17/2007 11:35:47 am PDT

shhhhhh.

we don't want to cause any backlashes
you know, the usual fears that Muslims tell us they are afraid of every time some " lone nut" AKA jihadi murders a bunch of innocent people...........you know that whole backlash thingie that never ever happens..

now you good Americans. just follow my pocket watch.

sleep...........sleeeeeep

Here ya go:

Statement From Virginia Tech Muslim Student’s Association

I have been contacted by the Muslim Students Association at Virginia Tech and they have made a preliminary statement:

The Virginia Tech Muslim Student Association expresses great sorrow for the tragic events that occurred today on the Virginia Tech campus. We would like to convey our deepest condolences to the families of the victims and offer our help in anyway to the university campus community. We would like everyone to please keep us in their duaz and prayers. Jazakumu Allahu Khairan for the concern we received today and we definetly [sic] feel the brotherhood and sisterhood that binds all us together.

The Executive Board of the Muslim Students Association at Virginia Tech.

Glad to see active civic and community participation by American Muslims especially in time of a crisis.

[Link: www.rapidcityjournal.com...]

#15 doppelganglander -
Thank you.

Someone said it's an xbox game that he had.

Somehow I knew the ROP would end up involved in this.

Ismail Ax
Note picture and title:inferno
[Link: narcissik-ax.skyblog.com...]

No doubt a coincidence. But interesting nevertheless

The Evil of Cho Seung-Hui

His English professor is now fretting over his privacy rights.

After he murdered 32 people.

Mush-headed thinking, to say the least.

Where's the report that he signed the note "Ismail Ax"?

I keep coming across the Tribune's one line about that being written on the inside of his arm in red ink, but not attributed to anyone in particular, and I can't find a report that he signed his note that way.

One possibility is that he was an admirer. Kinda like how Hitler admired islam, even though he wasn't one himself. With the Nazi/antisemitism chic that's so fashionable in Korea (even though he's been here for a while), it could just be part of the romantic Gothic new-agey neosatanism that fascinates these types.

That is one of many questions that remain unanswered this afternoon.

I would hope that VT and other universities use this time to review their own security plans and consider changes in light of what happened but not to go overboard. We had local tv stations in the NYC metro area here looking at various urban college campuses to see what they were doing with security, and some had security guards positioned around campus while others were more relaxed.

Of course, there's a huge difference. In NYC, if there's a problem on campus, you wont just have campus police responding within moments, but the NYPD and its elite ESU units, all of which have the training to deal with these situations.

I was also reading that one of the possible reasons for the high death toll was that the lifeflights were grounded yesterday because of bad weather - and all the victims had to be driven by ambulance to local hospitals which were not as well equipped to deal with a mass casualty event as the level 1 trauma centers further away but inaccessible due to the grounded air lifts.

"He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said of the gunman.

Is Abdul a Muslim?

Pres Bush just mentioned that people came together on "blogs".

What happens, as it now seems it is coming out in drips and drabs, that this guy was pretty much a known nut...observed but nothing much done? Part of the "lets not judge anyone," culture growing around the horseshit manure used to grow the multi-cultural poison mushrooms everyone has been eating for 40 years?

Koskidz retort....
Virginia Tech, LGF and dKos.

I would not be doing this at this particular time if it hadnt become evident that charles johnson will not cease his attacks on dKos, another of which is currently on his front page. If chucklenutz johnson is willing to continue defaming dkos even at a time like this, i will now expose the way LGF has reacted to the shooting at VT.

see the disgusting things said after the jump
...
those comments where from yesterday and that last one sends chills down my spine.

My point in doing this diary is to show what we have descended to as a people.
In the face of extreme tragedy, the first thoughts of some in this era is to politicize, to race bait and to hate.

Lame.

If you search "Ismail axe" you'll get all sorts of Qur'an references referring to Ibrahim, his axe, and his son Ismail. Not sure what it means. "Ibrahim axe" gets you the whole story. Ibrahim used an axe to smash idols.

The Prophet Ibrahim (peace be upon him) lifted his heavy axe and began to smite the idols turn by turn. The idols fell to the ground with a big thud. The floor was loaded with numerous noses, ears, heads, arms, legs and other parts of the idols. He broke all the idols in the sanctuary but spared the Chief one. He did so to demonstrate that the idols had no power to cause harm to any one or bestow benefits upon others. They were as helpless as mere stones and it is against the dignity of human beings to pay homage to them. When the Prophet Ibrahim (peace be upon him) finished his job, he left the Temple cautiously making sure that no one had seen him.

So that's pretty weird.

At Hot Air, Allah posts an email from a reader called Ray F:

You probably already know this, but in James Fennimore Cooper’s story “The Prairie,” the settler Ishmael Bush, who is attempting to escape from civilization, sets out across the prairie with two key tools, a gun and an axe. Each has a symbolic meaning. The axe — which can either kill or provide shelter — stands for both creation and destruction. Given that the VT killer was an English major, might this be the likely meaning of the words on his arm? Just my two cents.

I'm an English major, and I didn't know that.

#35 Killgore:

Oh, but you left out the lamest part, mon ami:

When we all know the only true response, the response of those with hearts, to tragedy on this scale is, love.

With a couple of candlight vigils and a few rounds of "Kumbayah", we can all go peacefully to sleep.

I saw some sane comments about cherry-picking posts in there Killgore.

Here comes the Imam

Great. Let's get an Imam up to speak at Va. Tech.

34 Jehu

The professors referred him to therapy, and at least one story indicates he might have been on anti-depressants. Referral is the most professors can do unless a student breaks the rules. Being a loner who writes strange stuff is not against the rules.

Wow, there are few things I am less interested in than an imam reciting things in Arabic mentioning violence around the world.

a good way to look at this incident (for future reference) is to note how easy a lone gunman can kill numerous people before law enforcement has a chance to react......

if this had been a small group (3-5) of well armed individuals, the gunfight might still be going on.

another good reference is to look at 9-11, the ONLY people that were able to stop the hijackers were ordinary citizens that found themselves on the front lines on flight 93....the military, the federal govt., the police or local govt. was not able to stop or slow down the attacks on that day, only INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS willing to act stopped one of the four airliners from hitting the intended target.....

all of us need to realize WE are all the best hope for the survival and safety of all those around us if something goes bad, from a car wreck to a fire to a terrorists attack, we as individuals need to ALWAYS be ready to act and be the one that saves anothers life or halts an attack or aides another in a time of grave circumstance.....calling 9-1-1 and turning on CNN is NOT enough.....

be willing to act greatly every single day!

Is there a Korean group similar to CAIR who will begin making up phony hate crimes now?

Double Post for people living near LBB, ABI, MWL, CDS and SPS...

I am impress!

Despite lack of true Gulf moisture return and very meager instability, stout upper air low entering West Texas strong enough for possible damaging hail and tornadoes as seen on Lubbock AN/WSR-88D NexRad Doppler Radar!

#39 ChenZhen
Yeah, I just saw that. BTW, I discourage cherry picking Komments (unless it's something particularly funny or stupid). I consider the diaries to be a different animal. Especially when they demonstrate a pattern of thought (eg. the Protocols series).

I am still completely baffled, but in my mind is this - would this man have signed Ismail and written it on his arm if he was NOT thinking "personal jihad"?

I'm thinking if he WAS thinking this, he absorbed it from the media without contact with anyone else - e.g., via the Internet, etc. Certainly, I doubt he opened up to anyone, because if he had, this probably would not have happened.

#33 Coz wrote:
"Pres Bush just mentioned that people came together on "blogs"."

Actually, one of the first things that East. Mich. Univ. professors noticed was VT students looking to see if their friends were survivors or not through FACEBOOK.

President Bush might be referring to FACEBOOK as it played a major role with the VT students learning about what happened.

First point
There was an Israeli Holocaust survivor who acted as a hero at Virginia Tech U and who was gunned down and killed on Holocaust Memorial Day but his standing up to the murderer allowed some students to escape.

Second point.
I turned on Fox Cable News and the feed under the picture was disgusting! It said So Korean students were fearing they might become victims and fearing there might be a backlash and So. Korean diplomats were heading there because of the unwritten words "Americans are so racist you know!" Why the whining? How about expressing some sympathy you bunch of narcissists! How about acting like human beings? How about acting like you are part of the community?
This So Korean kid was the racist and an economic classist.

Wow, who's next, a representative of the Moonies?

O.R. 38

When we all know the only true response, the response of those with hearts, to tragedy on this scale is, love.

That reminds me of the movie "Little Big Man," Where the Indians always call themselves "The People." And has become the self-satisfied, petulant whine of the Left. Only THEY are "TRUE," people. Only they have hearts, know love, know what is best, not only for all others, but for the entire earth. Only they know how to take care of all humans, all animals and the earth itself.

Given spaceflight they will soon be instructing Solar Systems, and Galaxies in the laws of Celestial Mechanics...chiding neutron stars for collapsing...decrying galatic pollution from Super Nova's Until ultimately their egos will explode and create a whole new universe....assuredly we are seeing the formation of the intensity of concern and condensing of matter that will produce the next Big Bang.

45 JamieWearingFool

Is there a Korean group similar to CAIR who will begin making up phony hate crimes now?

If there isn't, there will be soon. More than likely, it will be associated with International ANSWER and the North Koreans and will be presented to us as the spokesgroup for all Asians.

Satanists on deck.

Talk about judging people by your own standards: Korea Fears Prejudice With Shooting Link. Because God knows, if this had been an American in South Korea the anti-American backlash would have been fierce.

#38 Occasional Reader
Also notice their top reccomened diaries are mostly attempts to politicize the shooting. With only one expressing disgust at the opportunism.

#49 Catttt

I doubt he opened up to anyone

Maybe he did with his neighbor Abdul Shash.....

".. but this is very curious."

I agree. So is it interesting (just now, in a small and curious way and perhaps throughly insignificant way) that his family's port of entry to the USA was first stop: Detroit.

McBeef's pedophilia theme is bad enough (and warranted a referral to a counselor .. arguably, it also warranted dismissal on grounds of serious mental/moral illness that needed addressing off campus) .. but I repeat, this guy was an English major. And his writing sucked. Why on earth was he admitted to University? I'm guessing the tuition $$. Then again, I have a hard time w/cynical. Explanations?

#54 Canadastani

Ow. Dead on, and ouch.

I found this on a blog:

What does “Ismail Ax” mean?
4/17/07 01:10 pm
Add to Memories

Ismail Ax was inked on the VT shooters arm.

The Chicago Tribune reported that the note included a rambling list of grievances that railed against “rich kids,” “debauchery” and “deceitful charlatans” on campus. The paper also reported that Cho died with the words “Ismail Ax” in red ink on the inside of one of his arms. ~ Fox News

I googled it.

During one night, Ibrahim had a dream. He came to Ismail and said: “O my son ! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you as a sacrifice to Allah, so what do you think?” They both realized that this was an order from Allah. ~ Prophet Ibrahim

I thought S. Koreans were Buddhists?

And upon further research I must say that if he was celebrating Eid al-Adha (Festival of Sacrifice), which was Ismail’s deliverance from death then he had his party dates completely screwed up.

#51 Greensoccer

Koreans know a thing or two about racism. Ask any non-Korean who's tried to marry a Korean.

As Charles said: "All other signs right now point to this being a deranged individual with a history of odd behavior (not a “sudden jihadi”), but this is very curious."
But certainly, at this point, only curious. I think any attempt to tie this tragedy into the ROP now, is just wrong.

45 JamieWearingFool

Is there a Korean group similar to CAIR who will begin making up phony hate crimes now?

Does it count that I'm still miffed at the guy in the store downtown who charges an extra five cents for a stamp?

Mandy 42

The professors referred him to therapy, and at least one story indicates he might have been on anti-depressants. Referral is the most professors can do unless a student breaks the rules. Being a loner who writes strange stuff is not against the rules.

I guess my point would be that shouldn't this fact have come into play when (depressed, referred to therapy) student applied for a gun permit? Perhaps a lot of hindsight, but jeez anyone applying for a gun permit cannot have a felony, they should also be flagged for any signs of mental problems...no matter how small, and a psycholgist would have to sign off.

Course he could get the guns illegally then, but just seems this kind of stuff is still all too casual. Like nobody much noticed the Columbine murderers were a 'little bit," strange. Including their clueless parents.

As much as the PC State of schools annoys me... You know, these days, anybody who turns in bizarre, disjointed, gore-filled stories about killing their parents for a class assignment probably ought to get a time-out and a psych referral.

As far as that girl knew, he was probably just some creepy kid who wouldn't leave her alone, but in his mind he was married to her.

This is another reason why prostitution should be legal and regulated. Maybe if he'd have gotten laid once in a while, even if he had to pay for it, he'd have had an outlet. We see the same exact problem with the ROP. Just a thought.

#28 JammieWearingFool 4/17/2007 11:42:53 am PDT

The Evil of Cho Seung-Hui

His English professor is now fretting over his privacy rights.

After he murdered 32 people.

Mush-headed thinking, to say the least.

Last time I checked, it is only living breathing people who have any expectation of or right to privacy.

#51 Greensoccer

Yes, we keep hearing about the threat of all these horrible American backlashes: against Moslems, against Koreans, against Asians, etc., etc., etc.

Funny thing is, though, they never seem to happen. But the whiners keep whining about them, all the same.

62 Rexferal

I thought S. Koreans were Buddhists?

I had read that just over half of Koreans are Christian, the CIA site says that 26% are Christian and 26% are Buddhist, the rest undeclared.

#39 ChenZhen
Wow, I just went through that thread again and so far the vast majority (90%?) were expressing horror at the carnage and praise for the hero. But I guess most koskidz won't follow the link and read the comments for themselves.

Most people are not prepared to see these signs and recognize them. We call people who infer sinister intent paranoid. For example, carrying a gun around all day is paranoid. What a shame there were no paranoid people at this school.

Go and read the play that the VT shooter wrote. He was an "English" major, apparently.

When you read it you will be shocked. It reads like every other comment at Kos and PufHo.

I think it's probably more like Patrick Purdy ( the Stockton schoolyard killer) who carved "Hezbollah" into the stock of his Type 56 rifle before going on the killing spree. This dude was twacked enough that he didnt NEED the RoP to touch him off. Not to say that they counldnt have or wouldnt have, but it isnt necessarily linked.

C

Remember where this is coming from, ok guys? No time to figure if it is true or not:
[Link: flickr.com...]

#58 Atman 4/17/2007 11:58:33 am PDT

#49 Catttt

I doubt he opened up to anyone

Maybe he did with his neighbor Abdul Shash.....

I don't want to go all Kumbaya, but the odds are, if he went to a local mosque and really opened up to someone, his rage might have been eased up somehow. Even though in principal one can find mosques around the country preaching that Islam must be dominant, I am pretty sure the local imam would not have counseled mass murder at the local college.

More than anything else, this reminds me of that Law and Order episode where it turns out that the young man, who is a Muslim convert, has become a Muslim, and eventually killed, because a girl laughed at his privates.

is the Rapid City thing today .....just another deranged lone gunman?

The blinders are certainly on in some quarters about the whole incident. Some want to make hay of the fact that an Israeli professor gave his life to save others, while a Muslim guy 'only' took video.

Look, who was in a position to take action here? And why make hay over a nonexistent angle in the first place?

More interesting is who exactly made Cho do this as his note intimates. Is this yet another sign of a mental illness - and there are signs that he may have been suffering/treated for depression or other mental illnesses?

I don't like the fact that President Bush is going to Blackburg and acting as "Mourner-in-Chief" again.

Ultimately what happend at VTech was a had nothing to do with him or his office. President Bush has already expressed his condolences. He should stay in Washington D.C. and avoid fanning the flames of what will inevitably become a cheap media spectacle.

Ismail Ax

Hmmm. I hate to say this since it will be construed as "hate speech" by the KOS Kids, but...

This guy sounds like a new convert to the RoP before he had a chance to complete an official name change. They call themselves "The Sons of Ismail." I don't think we have heard the last of this.

...Just thinking out loud...

66 Jehu

Just because someone is seeing shrink does not mean that she/he is having mental problems! Sometimes there are minor things going on, such as a break-up with an SO or feeling lonely far from home. Other times, there are deeper issues such as clinical depression.

Do you propose that we require every single therapist turn over information on patients to the state?

Dirk
Big Billy Clinton cast the die for that role. Now it's obligatory. Bush fears another Katrina backlash.

Nagasaki mayor dies after brazen shooting

Reuters

The Globe and Mail

The mayor of the Japanese city of Nagasaki died early on Wednesday after being shot by a man police said was a member of a criminal syndicate, public broadcaster NHK reported.

Itcho Ito, 61, seeking re-election for a fourth term in Sunday's election, was shot at least twice in the back by the man in front of his campaign office just before 8:00 p.m. (1100 GMT) on Tuesday, officials had said.

Japan has very strict gun control laws and illegal firearms are mostly in the hands of “yakuza” gangsters or registered hunters.

Nagasaki, on the southernmost main island of Kyushu, was the second city to suffer an atomic bombing by the United States on Aug. 9, 1945.

Ted Kennedy said. “We’re seeing things like this happen every day, but it’s not part of the headlines. Clearly we need to do more to keep our people safe from gun violence.”

What a buffoon. With today's communication capabilities I find very hard to believe we're seeing this happen every day. That makes as much sense as Islam is a religion of peace.

This whole thing is a huge evil done to some innocent people. Regardless, this cho guy was evil. Plain and simple.

Since the Kos kids have been brought up, I must say that Cho only did what the Kos kids and Huff-po's say they wish would have happened to Dick Cheney, so if they act as though they are so concerned, I will puke.. You can't be a 'death wisher' on one hand and then become mr. compassionate on the other.

I am sorry, but after viewing the comments of the left on Huffpo and The Daily Kos about how they wish republicans dead, it really makes it hard to believe they are truly upset about this shooting at VT. ESPECIALLY when it is found out that this Cho guy was mad at America and rich white people.

You just wait for the radical left to start empathising with this Cho guy under the geise of 'preventing more student shootings'. They will also use this as a political tool for gun control.. Especially the kooky kos kids and Huffposters..

I will bet Al Sharpton is reeling as his t.v. campaign to brainwash AMerica into ousting anyone on the airwaves with thoughts contrary to his gets put on hold for a while.

#78 akak - What Rapid City thing? Sorry, I've been at the doc's and hospital all day - just got back in time for the convocation.

Did anyone else notice a posting above from the handle 'Jamil Hussein'?

#53 Jehu

That reminds me of the movie "Little Big Man," Where the Indians always call themselves "The People."

Actually, they called themselves "the human beings", which in the romantic 60's and 70's was supposed to show how simple and pure such "primitives" were (noble savages donchaknow). The expression is not uncommon in "pre-technical" cultures.

Of course what was ignored in the '60s and '70s (and by countless moonbats today) was that if one group is "human beings", then others are not, enabling primitives to accomplish their homocide rates (often up to 2%/year), which vastly outkill the 20th century with its mass democides.

Why are some of us so horny to bring Islam into this?

#53 Jehu

Wow that was deep. Beautiful.

God bless the 77 year old prof who had the balls to stand up to an armed maniac. No one knows how they'll react when the bullets start flying. Thank God there were at least a few who could past the ultimate test.

Was this guy and English major? If so I have a candidate: Ishmael by E.D.E.N. Southworth. It's a 19th century book about a character named Ishmael, naturally. It seems to contain the usual over-wrought unrequited love themes common in this type story. Some stuff about axes and Ishmael longing for, and nearly sacrificing himself for his true love etc.

Just a weak theory, but you never know what was going on with an unbalaced mind reading Victorian love literature.

This is all just a ruse to cover up his identity as a Mossad agent.

#80 Dirk

I feel he was there representing the people of the United States of America, as the VA governor was there representing the rest of the people of Virginia. He can be my stand-in anytime.

#74 Doug

His writing was pretty awful...

Now hold on right there mister. It was a boating accident.

I would want to clarify that I believe there is a 95% chance this guy is just a nut case and has nothing to do with the RoP. It just makes me wonder, though.

Wow - I find it weird that they would have a Muslim religious leader be the first religious leader to give a speech during the convocation ceremony for the VA tech shooting victims.

Weird.

[Link: www.rapidcityjournal.com...]

He's a South Korean. Ismail is not his real name. He use it because his name is very hard to pronounce, especially for Indonesian people. His real name is Cho Seung Hoo ....... or is it Jo Sung Ho?

[Link: flickr.com...]

#84 Shr:

Japan has very strict gun control laws and illegal firearms are mostly in the hands of “yakuza” gangsters

Hm... so guns are outlawed, and only outlaws have guns... hey, that sounds familiar...

#89 garcia:

enabling primitives to accomplish their homocide rates

Which is then gently referred to by anthropologists as a certain population being "displaced" by another.

Lot of stretching here to put a RoP spin on this. No need. Evil has similarities. Islam just produces it on a factory scale. This guy was produced out of a little mom and pop operation. But has the same stink as all Evil.

"EVERYTHING IS ABOUT ME"

My stinking tiny little emotions are hurt, and I must destroy something, anyone. Because all LIFE, and all reason for life is about ME, everyone else is just furniture for my amusement!

This is why the thought of Hell can be a comfort. That God does have a trash bin to throw away the spirits that are eternally bent into an inward self-worshiping, thoughtless focus. What can you do with them? Just isolate them for eternity. Nothing exists but them? Then give them that universe, an ultimate mercy to them, and to everyone else.

66 Jehu

I guess my point would be that shouldn't this fact have come into play when (depressed, referred to therapy) student applied for a gun permit? Perhaps a lot of hindsight, but jeez anyone applying for a gun permit cannot have a felony, they should also be flagged for any signs of mental problems...no matter how small, and a psycholgist would have to sign off.

Not all states require permits to purchase, own, or handle firearms. The only limit in Texas is age and residency. At the other extreme, Massachusetts, by the letter of the law, requires a police-approved permit to even put your hand on a firearm without supervision by a licensee.

Requiring mental health certification for possession of anything, not just guns, opens up a huge can of worms. Think about it. Who is the gatekeeper for that certification? Where is the cutoff point? Let's say a woman with a history of bad relationships finally gets into hot water with a real psycho of a guy, and he's stalking her and will probably kill her - will you deny her a handgun purchase because she once went to counseling for her problems? We live in a world where academics write papers describing people who vote a certain way as having daddy issues, violent fascist tendencies, and so on.

Do you really want to give a regulating agency the ability to deny you a constitutional right based on what they percieve your mental health to be? How much do you think the average FFL holder knows about psychotherapy? Do you think the homeboys in the bad part of town who can get you an old revolver with the serials scratched off for $30 care about how crazy you might or might not be?

It's a good idea on paper, but in the real world it would be a nightmare.

Wow. I just read his "play". That was painful.

#90 Peacekeeper - Not all of us are; see my comment at #64. And Charles's statement at the top of the thread only noticed that it was "curious" - he didn't tie it in to the jihadists or Islam.

#77 Catttt
For me the Ax of Ismail is a connection to Islam. His neighbor noted his demeanor and may have introduced the killer to Islam. The rejection by a female or females may have added to his bitterness and in his insanity he lashed out...

Virginia Killer's Violent Writings
Play told of pedophilic stepfather, murder of 13-year-old boy
[Link: www.thesmokinggun.com...]

well, if he has Ismail Ax tatted on him, well...that's pretty blatant and obvious what that means if you ask me now...I suppose we're going to find out where he hung out at and with whom pretty soon...

oh, but don't mention that fact in the media...it's not violent martyrdom in the name of God...it's our "gun culture" that brainwashed him to hate us...

...riiiiiight...

go ahead MSM...look the devil in the eye...

I dare ya...

pussies

____

...and as far as that "gun culture" goes, if I were there and had a shot, I would have taken it...

go ahead, call me a "cowboy"

pussies

____

...grrr...

Ismail Axe Statue

anyone else notice that the muslim dude talked only of allah, whereas the "christian" guy spoke repeatedly in ecumenical terms, never mentioning God the Father or Jesus.

makes me sick.

# 66 jehu

He didn't have a carry permit (apparently) and that's the only kind of permit for guns there is in VA. He purchased the guns legally, which would involve a background check and a waiting period, but there's no permit requirement.

I've been at the nap

anyone post this yet?

Virginia Killer's Violent Writings
Play told of pedophilic stepfather, murder of 13-year-old boy

APRIL 17--The college student responsible for yesterday's Virginia Tech slaughter was referred last year to counseling after professors became concerned about the violent nature of his writings, as evidenced in a one-act play obtained by The Smoking Gun. The play by Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old English major, was submitted last year as part of a short story writing class. Entitled "Richard McBeef," Cho's bizarre play features a 13-year-old boy who accuses his stepfather of pedophilia and murdering his father. A copy of the killer's play can be found below. The teenager talks of killing the older man and, at one point, the child's mother brandishes a chain saw at the stepfather. The play ends with the man striking the child with "a deadly blow." (10 pages)

#84Shr_Nfr

I like how al-Reuters had to throw in:

Nagasaki, on the southernmost main island of Kyushu, was the second city to suffer an atomic bombing by the United States on Aug. 9, 1945.

in a story about one japanese shooting another.

We must protect the 2nd Amendment at all costs. In the end, and I mean that literally, it will be the only thing between you and evil, whoever or whatever that evil is.

Armed and accurate.

blue_like_jazz -

I didn't see a Christian speaker. When ws he on? I saw the Muslim guy and the Buddhist girl.

Smoking Gun has one of his plays up - about 8-10 pages. Disturbing, of course.

Babba...

There was an earlier post in this thread from a poster handle 'Jamil Hussein'

#64 realwest

But certainly, at this point, only curious. I think any attempt to tie this tragedy into the ROP now, is just wrong.

Yes, that's what I keep thinking. The meaning of this "ismail ax" inscription is at the moment unknown, and so without anything concrete to support x theory or y, it's very strange to try to pull Islam into the tragedy. To put stock in a theory so tenuous and unfounded strikes me as nutty. Let's leave that stuff to the left. Of course, I don't mean just speculation or trying to figure it out, but actually asserting the role of Islam in this tragedy at this stage.

#118 tfc3rid
Of course! ;~}

Real
Reread the post. I said "some". I certainly wasn't accusing Charles of being horny. Now get back to the oars, dog.

#104 capitalist piglet

Come on, you didn't find it to be a gripping glimpse into the psyche of an oppressed teen?

Are you always full of s**t, McBeef?

Must kill Dick. Must kill Dick. Dick must die.

Are you a bisexual psycho rapist murderer! Please stop following me. Don't kill me!

I'm telling you, it's Oprah's Book Club material...

debauchery, rick kids= smashing idols?

just askin

#110 blue_like_jazz

I did, and it sickens me too. Our nation's "Christians" rarely mention Christ when speaking outside the confines of the church. And they usually do mention the "Big Three" religions as if they were all branches of the same vine. This is why I no longer attend church, or participate in the great national Christian Marketing Scheme.

he was the last one to speak.

symptomatic: Jesus said that His coming would make people stumble and be offended, yet the majority of people who call themselves christians bend over backwards to avoid "offending" anyone's sensibilities.

yet the muslim has the cajones to speak only of allah.

FEH on all those who say they belong to Jesus yet are loathe to speak His Name!

jrdroll...

Typical nonsense... Anti-American crap... If it was done anywhere in Japan they would have mentioned that the US used 2 atomic boms against them... You know, because we are racist againt Japanese...

90 Peacekeeper

Why are some of us so horny to bring Islam into this?

We are an islamovigilant community. We are trying to make sense of the terror brought on by a mass murder. Frankly, if this guy is a sudden jihadi, we would feel "right". As crass as it sounds, we believe (outwardly on just in some quiet corner of our psyches) that more might believe as we do if others see THIS evil linked with all the other evil that happens in that name.
Not a perfect explanation, but it gives a sense of what may drive it.

And in a few years at most, avante guarde art types will produce his Hellish play in NYC or LA. Wait and see.

#110 blue_like_jazz - Amen!
;>'

102 Jehu

Now that was an excellent post.

And the flip side, well, only really excellent spirits are let into heaven, because as they will be there forever, they have to be worth being with!

And Professor Librescu makes the grade !

Babba...

Not joking...

#117 song_and_dance_man

"beastly acceptance"

That about sums it up. These "Christians" want to be loved by the world, and kowtow accordingly.

Did someone say Gramscian whores?

I read his play.

It's bad. On the other hand, it's really no worse, nor disturbing, than other stuff I've read from creative writing classes and seminars. And, heaven knows, there was "peformance art" during the 90's that was just as bad, and actually made money.

The professor was, of course, quite right to refer him for counseling.

This is why I no longer attend church, or participate in the great national Christian Marketing Scheme.

you and me both, friend.

Oops...

Forget that Babba... I was thining of the Pakistani guy who sadly may have killed himself...

107 Atman

Yep. That's why I am wary of converts to Islam. I've known quite a few Muslims, mostly from Iran, Kuwait, and Pakistan. The Iranians had busy hands that got slapped (heh). The Pakistanis and Kuwait guys were excellent, polite, and good friends. I had a really good friend from Kuwait, who was a great guy. None of them were that religious - I think in their heart, they were more or less agnostic.

The converts often have agendas all their own, and Islam suits their disease.

#66 Jehu

When applying for a concealed handgun permit in Virginia, they do ask if you have/had mental problems, been on any medications for said problem or been institutionalized. But they do not ask those things just to buy a gun, but a background check is done because certain past charges (even if you were not convicted, e.g. domestic abuse) can prohibit that purchase.

#121 Peacekeeper - Just making it clear. Woof, woof!

If this picture is the killer, and it was posted August 1st 2006, then the mystery if Ismail Ax is solved.

[Link: flickr.com...]

It sure does look like him. Police photo here [Link: upload.wikimedia.org...]

I worry there will be a backlash against English majors.

/sarcasm pointing out those who will blame Americans of racism are actually the ones focused on his origin.

Asians in Fear of Backlash?

Here we go...

#108 Lawrence Schmerel

Some play. Absolute dreck.

Koskidz - Islamist Convergance...

Azmi Bishara and Apartheid Israel

I present you with an article from electronic Intifada, by Ali Abunimah. It has been reposted with full permission from the site, and it fills in the blanks as to the investigation and state pressure on Azmi, as he is not able to speak fully on the matter in the media. It also speaks on an important point for those in the Palestine Solidarity community. We tend to focus on those Palestinians under occupation, and we thereby intentionally (see Carter) or unintentionally overlook the other Palestinian communities under assault; the Palestian citizens of Israel, and the refugees, all of whom Israel either expells, oppresses, or exiles, all for the preservation of the Jewish state.

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

Mandy 82

Do you propose that we require every single therapist turn over information on patients to the state?

Not really, but there ought to be some thinking about a database entry, where if you want to purchase a gun...then the state does have available that you may not be "real stable," and should not probably own a gun until cleared by a mental health worker or some minimum screening.

I don't want 10 year olds to get a license to drive a 18 wheeler. But we have systems in place to check for such. Just saying things are taken way to much for granted in certain respects. But then I would also require some sort of training to be able to have kids. Right now any scumbag, pedophile, dope addict can have kids for any reason. But I have a funny idea about freedom. I don't believe it exists without the dual requirement of personal responsibility. We seem to have one but not the other. At the least we don't teach that concept much. It is mostly infants screaming about "their rights!" But few speak of their responsibilities...to spouses, to their kids, to their nation, to the requirements of freedom. That helps to produce the Chaos we are seeing in society.

This did not happen in a vacumn. It started with the parents nearly total abdication of responsibility for this kid...and just kept going up the ladder until this asshole timebomb exploded on the innocent. But you will find after this is studied that this guy was sending out alarm signals for years...and the serial head up the ass ignoring of what was happening resulted in this. Knowing this, the only shock I have when these types of tragedies happens, is how in hindsight everyone sees it could have been prevented, could have been stoped. But everyone figured it was someone else's responsibility..some other time...sorry I am busy, got a party to attend.

Good afternoon LGF friends.

I had an interesting conversation with one of my co-workers this morning. Her brother is a Campus police officer at the UW campus here in town.

She said that she immediately knew why the cops didn't alert the students after the first attack yesterday. She said the her brother has been called into the Chancellor's ofice on several occasions and warned about making arrests on campus. It's because the schools want to keep there arrest counts very low, otherwise the statistics can deter prospective students and incoming freshmen.

The stats have to be published by the colleges, so they want them as low as possible. Campus police are encouraged to get the perps off campus, and to let the town police handle it.

81 Escovado 4/17/2007 12:07:13 pm PDT

Ismail Ax

Hmmm. I hate to say this since it will be construed as "hate speech" by the KOS Kids, but...

This guy sounds like a new convert to the RoP before he had a chance to complete an official name change. They call themselves "The Sons of Ismail." I don't think we have heard the last of this.

I think this is the main problem, the fact that everything right now is being looked at and blamed by the media and pundits atleast...everything BUT islam. We won't hear it all due to the silent list of things we can't discuss in the media.

I would prefer they either sthu until all facts are known or look at EVERYTHING while reasoning through it, including islam. To rule out islam at this point (even though it may not be the reason..I have NO idea..nothing has been released to make me rule it out) to me is being close minded. I rule nothing out until it rules itself out...PERIOD! But I'm a troubleshooter by nature I guess.

Mark my words Diane, some fucker will try to produce his play.

Diana

#128 Peacekeeper: Maybe they could produce it in a double bill with the St. Pancake play.

I was only listening to an audio stream when the Imam was speaking...did anyone get up and walk out at that point? I think I would have, and maybe even slammed the door on my way out. Come to think of it, they probably foresaw the possibility, and said "nobody leaves until it's over." Unlike any Daniel Pipes speech at any university, where half the attendees only come so they can loudly leave.

#144 Killgore Trout
Unreal. BTW did you know Chen thinks we are the same person? LOL!

#146 mama winger - What you said makes sense, except that here we're not talking about "arrests" for, say, drunken behavior or lewd or loud behavior, we're talking about the campus cops discovering a double murder. If I were a campus cop, I wouldn't hesitate to call in the locals or state cops (my understanding is that the UT Campus Cops are unarmed).

...one of the speakers at the event just called the victims "innocent" and continued, "innocent like the elephants who are hunted in...[some place]... innocent like a baby in Appalachia who is killed by a boulder [dislodged] by a mining company..."

Excuse my memory lapses and consider this as a paraphrase.

Un-fucking-believable.

As to why this deranged, homicidal nut, who wrote plays scary enough that he was referred to counseling, that set fire to a dorm, that stalked women, was still on campus see the link below...

[Link: www.slate.com...]

#148 Peacekeeper

I'll put up $5 to Charles' tip-jar it happens within a year.

PIMF VT campus cops are unarmed.
sigh.

#136 tfc3rid 4/17/2007 12:25:58 pm PDT

No I know who Jamil is, we have a mind meld, he probably did post it LOL

One thing's for sure, he demonstrated Islamic "Karameh" - the pride that demands honor, respect, and compliance.

154 Noam
Yeah, that last speaker was disgusting
What is the difference between an imaginary child crushed by a boulder dislodged by a mining company and a premeditated shooting rampage? Intent. If she can't tell the difference, she is not a credit to my alma mater.

#149 Peacekeeper

With 2 n's, please!

Hey, if you want to know how bad and weird "performance art" got in the 90's, there's a book by a fellow named Justin Chin called Attack of the Man-Eating Lotus Blossoms with the scripts for his "performances."

I have it - a friend gave it to me to see how often I'd give it flying lessons.

Someone seems to think America has a history of "back-lash". College students aren't liberal enough or something? Oh well. I certainly don't anticipate any.

Well, I'm satisfied with the official story on this guy. Desperate loniliness and isolation turned to burning hate. A little slow breaking it though, huh? Evidently the officials don't understand how this played on people's natural curiosity.

Richard McBeef?

Im calling it:

Ismael A+

not Ax.

Calls himself Ismael, wanted blood type on arm.

#145 Jehu

This did not happen in a vacumn. It started with the parents nearly total abdication of responsibility for this kid...

On what basis do you make this statement?

Bet you a dollar his blood type is A+

#138 TimeQuake

but a background check is done because certain past charges (even if you were not convicted, e.g. domestic abuse) can prohibit that purchase

Do you have the citation for that statute?

... and in related news...

Millions of legal gun owners didn't shoot anone yesterday.

Film at eleven...

#151 Taqiyyotomist

Wasn't Bush in the room? I imagine the Secret Service would prefer to keep comings and goings and other milling about to a minumum if so.

#167 Mandy

Gun laws vary from state to state. In my state, you can be turned down for a gun purchase if you have ever been involuntarily committed to a mental health facility.

I have never been involuntarily committed. :) LOL!

What Peacekeeper said at #128

#158 BabbaZee
I did not post it. The date on the pic is real. Got an interesting message with the link from a Herndon VA IP. Could be a lot more coming.

"anyone"

PIMF

You fat piece of pork!

So Koreans despise pork? hmmmm...and his family came in through Detroit....hmmm...

After 9/11 and this, both perpetrated by foreign students, I think it's clear what should be banned (hint: not guns).

#152 BabbaZee

When's the next round of BZ/CZ celebrity smackdown? It was too late to make popcorn last night...

Having galanced through his play its amazing how the synatx and vocabulary usage mirrors what you'd find in the typical KOZ diary. Surely coincidental...

#173 jamil hussein
Too bad I can't stay on very long
e-mail me the posts if you get a chance
(once you post them) thanks

You know, guys, evil does not confine itself to one group of people.

just sayin'

#152 BabbaZee
I didn't know that. What if he's correct?
/Spooky , eh?

#177 religion of bacon
LOL. I said all I had to say.

Dunno about you, but not every non-white mass-murderer is a crazed Muslim with jihad on the brain.

#167 MM

He's right. If you have/had a restraining order against you, it makes things very difficult even if you were innocent and some girlfriend took it out for spite. Happens, but not to me. :)

There are several layers in place to keep bad people from getting weapons whom should not have them. We live in a free society and that freedom extends to personal protection.

Anyone hear when the press expounded on how more people are killed yearly by human hands than by guns? Oh... me either...

Last night Katie Couric mentioned off-hand that there had been a "gun show" just recently in the area... she really is just retarded, isn't she? Her reasoning skillz are depressing.

Just three short months ago

A virtually unreported story in the old media's coverage of the Virginia Tech tragedy is that, according to the January 31, 2006 edition of the Roanoke Times, Virginia lawmakers voted down a bill that would have allowed permit holders to carry concealed handguns on campus. The bill was generated in response to the campus arrest of a Virginia Tech student despite the fact he had a state-issued concealed handgun permit.

When the bill was voted down, Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hinckler chortled, "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions, because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on campus." Mr. Hinckler has been strangely silent since Monday morning.

Prevent law abiding people from carrying guns, and everyone will feel safe. Ah.

The Meaning of Ismail Ax

For those of you still searching for meaning in this phrase, written in ink on Cho Seung-Hui's arm and also how he signed his infamous note, it starts with the story of Ibrahim's Ax (Ibrahim = Abraham):

After making sure that nobody was left in town, Ibrahim went towards the temple armed with an ax. Statues of all shapes and sizes were sitting there adorned with decorations. Plates of food were offered to them, but the food was untouched. "Well, why don't you eat? The food is getting cold." He said to the statues, joking; then with his ax he destroyed all the statues except one, the biggest of them. He hung the ax around its neck and left.
--The Koran

Ismail was Ibrahim's son. It was Ismail that Ibrahim wanted to sacrifice for Yahweh (with an ax).

A reader pointed out that "Ismail" is also a variant on the narrator in Moby Dick, and although Cho was an English major, the relationship between Moby Dick's Ismail and an ax/e is less clear.

[Link: bangkokker.blogspot.com...]

#155 Bucephalas

Thought-provoking article. Thanks for the link.

I take back one "FUCK YOU" from yesterday.

#164 incrementandexcrement

Or was grading himself

#181 Killgore Trout
haha ...funny, I don't feel kilgorey

#82 MandyManners 4/17/2007 12:07:35 pm PDT

66 Jehu

Just because someone is seeing shrink does not mean that she/he is having mental problems! Sometimes there are minor things going on, such as a break-up with an SO or feeling lonely far from home. Other times, there are deeper issues such as clinical depression.

Do you propose that we require every single therapist turn over information on patients to the state?

And there are people going through situational depression that has nothing to do with chemical imbalances or emotional disturbances. How about the parent who is grieving over a diagnoses of a terminally ill child or the parent who has lost a child? In that situation, I can see where anybody would need some anti-depressants for awhile. That doesn't mean they should lose their right to self-defense.

Hmmmm... He goes by Ismael, he uses the word "dick" alot. Maybe he's a Moby Dick fan?

154 Noam Chumpski 4/17/2007 12:32:31 pm PDT

...one of the speakers at the event just called the victims "innocent" and continued, "innocent like the elephants who are hunted in...[some place]... innocent like a baby in Appalachia who is killed by a boulder [dislodged] by a mining company..."

Excuse my memory lapses and consider this as a paraphrase.

Un-fucking-believable.

Ahhh. It's my fault, then. I own a netsuke that I bought years ago in Dallas. It supposedly came from the "smashed" T. Cullen Davis collection.

#152 BabbaZee 4/17/2007 12:32:12 pm PDT

Unreal. BTW did you know Chen thinks we are the same person? LOL!

uh huh....I didn't even come close to saying that.

The college student responsible for yesterday's Virginia Tech slaughter was referred last year to counseling after professors became concerned about the violent nature of his writings

Did he get that couseling? If so, was he put on any medication? If so, was he recently taken off that medication? What kind of follow-up program does VA Tech have when a student is referred for couseling? Obviously, some professors saw Cho needed help- did anybody else?

S&D man

yup yup and yup.

i'm out, lizards... have devoted WAY too much time to this on a beautiful spring carolina day!

shalom and see ya on the blogola later on.....

183 jroberson 4/17/2007 12:44:32 pm PDT

Dunno about you, but not every non-white mass-murderer is a crazed Muslim with jihad on the brain.

I just don't rule islam affecting him (maybe not jihadi) out until the facts are all in..and I find it funny that the MSM will dis anything BUT a possible islam reference.

171 mama winger

I understand that law but, not one that denies you a right based on a mere arrest.

#187 MandyManners
Sticking with my first instinct,
all Chen's fault,
LOL

Just spent $180 each for three tix, just before start finish line, a little lower than perfect (row 13), but not bad, for the Craftsman Truck Series, Busch Grand National and Dickies 500 Nextel Cup races at Texas Motor Speedway first weekend of November.
Special 3 race deal. Plus, I can get a pit/garage pass for $125 more (probably won't), and am eligible in August to get those seats as season tickets for 2008 at TMS. Depends what that costs, I'm not a big IRL fan, but if the package isn't too much more than combined NASCAR events, may just have to go for it.

I hope it doesn't snow. That time of year up there, it can be 80º (27ºC), or it can snow.

#167 MandyManners

Sorry, the request to just purchase a gun is as stringent as for a conceal permit. My mistake. I don't remember having to answer those same questions as I did for the conceal permit.

[Link: www.vsp.state.va.us...]

#196 song_and_dance_man
Amen.
Woe unto The Whores of Gramscian Churchianity and Shuliasm.

I don't think it's trivial that he spelled it Ismail instead of Ismael, as some people have 'corrected' it here.

184 Noam Chumpski

He did not refer to an RO but to a mere arrest. Big difference.

#186 jaydee

Simpler explanation is that Ismail was his nickname... as shown in #76 and #140

190 AirForceWife

Ditto.

#193 ChenZhen
Pssst.....(I think we know who the mystery sockpuppet is now)

Chen you are an inveterate LIAR

#156 ChenZhen 4/16/2007 9:10:01 pm PDT

#120 BabbaZee 4/16/2007 8:36:49 pm PDT

We do not work on the basis of assumptions here...

ktr! wouldn't be you, would it?

Anyway, it's all fixed.

Was he in Indonesia in July 2006? I'm guessing

183 jroberson 4/17/2007 12:44:32 pm PDT

Dunno about you, but not every non-white mass-murderer is a crazed Muslim with jihad on the brain.

I agree. However, I think it's important to figure out motive when something like this happens. When there is a group of people out there whose ideology is that they should kill innocent people, and something like this happens, it seems important to know if the killer is a member of that group or was motivated by the same ideology.

#186 jaydee

In the bible, the word "knife" is used rather than "ax", but that could just be semantics.

#60 Daisy, how does a university professor diagnose "moral illness", and how (other than a criminal conviction resulting from the "moral illness") could a university use "moral illness" to toss a student out? As for mental illness, take a look at the disabilities act. There is this thing mandated in both US and Canadian law called "accommodation" for disabilities, which includes mental illness. It is illegal to throw students out because they have a mental illness. This, together with the various privacy laws that governments have put in place, make it darned hard for universities to deal with mentally ill students unless there are CLEAR signs that they are a physical danger to themselves or to others.

Why yes, this brilliant free-thinker has seen through it all:

I don't believe this kid shot 45 people. I think Bush is exploiting this tragedy to gain points with
base in the gun control debate and with the American public in light of declining support for this war and presidency and I think he is playing on fear and sympathy to gain support for the Iraq troop supllement bill.

Serious BDS sufferer.

#113 jrdroll,

It obviously should be "Nagasaki, which was once part of the same Imperial Japan that bombed Pearl Harbor..."

:-)

Just read some of the play.

That is some messed up sh*t.

What kind of name was his roomate's?

Karan Grewal?

Mr. Grewal recalled how earlier in the year someone running for a student council position visited the suite to pass out candy and ask for votes. Mr. Cho would not even make eye contact with him, turning his head away and refusing to make conversation.

Mr. Grewal said officers were in Mr. Cho’s room, on the second floor of Harper Hall, from 7 p.m. until midnight and they interviewed each of the suitemates.

The police, he said, were surprised that even his roommate knew so little about him.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

201 TimeQuake

Have you ever been convicted for the misdemeanor crime of domestic violence?

Thanks for the link! Convicted is a long way from being arrested.

#204 MM

I'm sorry, I came in late and misunderstood the post. Was he rumored to have had a RO against him? Didn't know that.

His ticket was for speeding and his court date was in May. That wouldn't effect his being able to get a gun. You're right there.

Each states has requirments that have to do with mental/illness and gun ownership.

Example
individuals who are restricted from gun ownership include those who currently receive outpatient psychiatric treatment, those who have been civilly committed to treatment, and those who have been declared not guilty by reason of insanity. Some are prohibited because they have a history of alcohol or substance abuse.

The laws vary in their range of restrictiveness. In Pennsylvania, for example, prohibitions extend to those who have been "adjucated as an incompetent," been committed to receive psychiatric care on an inpatient unit, or been convicted of driving under the influence of alcohol or a controlled substance on three or more occasions within a five-year period.

218 Noam

NO! No he wasn't.

Just putting it out there:

Cho Seung-Hui Was Inspired By Islam. His Suicide Note Signed Ismail-AX

I hope the media gets the Islamic connection here. I am sure what they will find is a story of a convert to Islam who was convinced that his only salvation is go to Jihad. He is a perfect recruit; His South Korean heritage would make it easy for Muslims to deflect any charges of Islamic terrorism and, with the aid of the media and the PC government, dismiss it as another psycho attack, similar to what they did at Trolley Square in Utah.

#212 lauraf

it darned hard for universities anyone to deal with mentally ill students people unless there are CLEAR signs that they are a physical danger to themselves or to others.

People have the right to be ill. They just don't have the right to inflict harm.

#213 Kenneth
WTF!

Dont forget how S. Korea acted when a tank accidently killed 2 girls in S. Korea.

On June 13th 2002, during the period of the World Cup fever in Korea, an USFK armored vehicle accidentally ran over two middle school girls on a road near Paju north of Seoul near the DMZ.

The two girls were going to a birthday party. They were walking along the edge of a two lane highway with a grassy bank rising just off to their right. The tank was the third or fourth in line in the column - meaning two tanks had already passed the girls. The driver of the tank that killed them did not hear the spotter warning him about the girls due to a faulty headset. The two girls were walking with their heads down and fingers in their ears because of the noise the column of tanks was making. It was a tragic event.

(Image to the left is of a anti-US rally for high school and middle school students. It has become very common for the anti-US civic groups to actively promote hatred among kids including elementary school children and the production of anti-American lyrics set to popular kids tunes. Many of the videos from the teen rallies also show the leftist labor party presidential candidate giving speeches at them.)

Korean society used the accident for half a year of intense hate leading to a handful of injuries to US soldiers in violent protests and unprovoked attacks in the street. Koreans wanted murder charges brought against the two soldiers in the vehicle, and they did pressure the US military to court martial them for manslaughter. This only added fuel to the fire, and the acquittal caused an explosion of hate that even caught the attention of the American media.

[Link: www.usinkorea.org...]

I am home! wow, just got out of a moonbat site that I have been debating with the extreme Left wings for hours. I had to leave, I was getting sick (literally) from all the Bush, 9/11, america hating they were doing over there. I can't belive every bad thing that happens to or in the US, moonbats think Bush was behind it. C'mon

#220 MM

So he was then?

Kidding...kidding - I'm not that dumb. :)

#209 incrementandexcrement

Interesting question. IF that is his photograph, why would he be concerned if Indonesians could pronounce his name?

213 Kenneth

LOL! What is that asshole snorting?!

Cho Seung-Hui met with Osama Bin Laden in 2001 and saw himself as a mujihadeen. There's no evidence at all for that, but it makes complete sense.

From Hot Air:

It was 5:30 Monday morning and Karan Grewal was finishing a break after a long night of cramming for his classes at Virginia Tech. As he left the bathroom at Harper Hall, his dormitory mate, Cho Sueng-Hui, wearing boxer shorts and a T-shirt, entered for his morning ritual of applying lotion, inserting his contact lenses and taking his medication.

“He was, like, normal,” Grewal, a 21-year-old accounting major, said today, describing the ordinary start to what turned out to be an extraordinary day…

According to school officials, Cho even had time to post a deadly warning on a school online forum.

“im going to kill people at vtech today,” they said he wrote.

Looks like he was on meds. And what a failing of the school between not shuting it down after the first shooting and this post on the school forum. Terrible.

It seems like the shooter had plannd this and it was just not his GF that he was mad about. Must have been so other issues. The play makes me suspect that he might have had some issues as a child.

Actually, he wrote two plays. You can find them here:

[Link: newsbloggers.aol.com...]

The author of this blog was a former classmate of Cho who describes him as others have, a deeply troubled loner. In fact, when this author first heard about the shootings, he suspected Cho.

On top of the horror and sadness of yesterday, I'm particularly anger that all these years after Columbine, we are unable to recognize the profile of such a killer. And this kid fit the profile to a tee and a ton of people knew it. Of course, you can't arrest someone for nothing, but they should have kept a close eye on him. After the initial shootings in the dorm, they should have had some inkling it was him and went to find him, particularly that his dorm and the dorm of the first shootings were close together.

#207 Killgore Trout 4/17/2007 12:50:09 pm PDT

Pssst.....(I think we know who the mystery sockpuppet is now)

LOL ...Just post it on the blog. For accuracy, of course.

Compare and contrast how two Dukes students where kicked out of school on false charges whereas Cho was safe to stay in school. In the former, they did nothing provable at the time of their expulsion. Cho was disturbing most people he came into contact with, yet stayed in school.

{SONG}
I love you too.

Be back Later Lizardia
gotta rattle some pots and pans

#212 Lauraf

Medical professionals are required by law & by professional ethics to intervene if they believe one of their patients is in danger of hurting themself or others. In this case a student had written disturbing fiction about incest & murder, who had been stalking a student, who was on medication for depression, had set fire to his dorm room, and had generally been noticed as "odd" and a "loner" was also able to purchase guns & ammunition. Privacy laws probably prevented each professional from communicating with others about these concerns: the professors, the school administrators, the medical professionals, the police and the gun vendors/registry all operated in separate closed spheres.

Does anyone know any more about this fire he's supposed to have set? Or is that just one more rumor getting spread by the media?

140 Buck,

I don't think those pics are the same. For one thing, the real Cho appears to have rounder eyes than the other guy.

#224 dll2000 4/17/2007 12:55:02 pm PDT

Dont forget how S. Korea acted when a tank accidently killed 2 girls in S. Korea.

I just heard a self describe korean american caller to Hannity express his fear of a reprisals against koreans. I think these folks are all in projection mode. I mean just look at the death toll to bosnian-americans after SLC. NOT

I can't help but think this sicko was a student of Sayyid Qutb, the barking dog Islamist whose writings helped shape today's Jihadist movement. Both had inferiority complexes that led to a disgust and hatred of the American way of life. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if it is discovered that the hand of Islamism had some role in this tragedy.

A few observations or hypotheses.

I doubt Islam is involved at all, except perhaps as a foil for his anger. Consider how Goth, a lot of Rap, Metal, and others - hey, not to exclude the hippies and socialists - who are pure freaks of anger, whatever other justifications or contextualizations they offer. I'm not sure how many of you all were in school in the last decade or so, but this is a well-known feature of virtually every student body: there are a collection of overlapping sub-sub-cultures that exist to provide ways of expressing anger/narcissim/stupidity/vanity. All of them are dark, many involve death, self-cutting, and all those not-yet-matured suicidal-homicidal tendencies - particularly suicide - that manifest as various forms of self-destruction or lashing out, mainly at "Republican" types, who are simultaneously loathed, resented, and envied.

I'd add the well-known intense home-life of Asian culture. In college several years ago I constantly heard the phrase "Asian mother" from my Chinese, Malaysian, Korean friends - in this case girls - always followed by a knowing murmur or roll of the eyes. One report said his sister went to Princeton. And this Cho looks like a scrawny little bastard studying English at an Engineering school a little down-rank from Princeton.

Add to that whatever idiosyncrasies afflict that particular immigrant household. Maybe his parents had trouble adapting, were tormented by financial problems, were terrible to each other and him or his sister.

I am in no way attempting to excuse the little maniac. But the Columbine kids were also seduced by a sub-culture where the abused and self-abused - hardly unusual in adolescents, and many people do not seem to ever make it out of adolscence - magnify and exacerabate each other's anti=social personal romances with pain.

The point is, I doubt Islam was involved, I doubt that has anything to do with gun control per se - in light of the fact that he Did actually shoot these people, he probably Was going to bomb the school, for example.

This was just a freak. The part he is not responsible for, by far the lesser part, was, I will bet my right arm, is this pestulence of sub-sub-cultures, most of which are in fact psychotic, vicious and dark, even if many of their adherents aren't (hey, kind of like Islam).

In that respect it does emanate from the 60s crap, or its darker precedents, Stalinist Communism and Beatniks, who after are were simply misanthropes self-alienated by their own insecurities and profound vanity.

The Incrementandexcrement working theory: Visited Indonesia in July of 2006 (photo here). Found himself there, called himself Ismael because Indonesians couldn't pronounce his name. Wrote A+ on arm for EMS, trying to be a badass.

May be a coincidence, may be not.

This French blog (apparently from a French muslim blogger) includes a photo posted May 29, 2006 of the blogger with two friends entitled "Trio Inferno". The Google translated caption reads "me cops with me. mohcine, alias "the man in with the smoke" on the left", and ismail ax in the medium" (sic- read "middle").

The blogger "narcissik ax" describes the blog as "...for those which still wish to see ski spasse with the data base abdelK
those which follow closely the “AX crew” I speak bi1sur about my pals and me even.
this blog is for you!
do not forget our slogan “dima AX! always higher”"

#178 Beagle

After 9/11 and this, both perpetrated by foreign students, I think it's clear what should be banned (hint: not guns).

I posted this on another thread..he was a legal alien for most of his life, but not a citizen. IIRC, his parents live in a DC suburb, and own a dry cleaning store.

#224 dll2000 4/17/2007 12:55:02 pm PDT

Dont forget how S. Korea acted when a tank accidentally killed 2 girls in S. Korea.

We'll wait and see how the Seoul Student masses behave with this.

It never crossed my mind to go anti-Korean on this. But apparently we're all a pack of rabid racist xenophobics bent on blood revenge over the actions of one freak.

Disappointing.

I do not think the 1st girl killed was his GF. I think he was stalking her. If it was his GF, they would have searched his dorm room even if they felt he fled the state.

229 Yank

Mmm... Feeltruthy.

#236 Richardb

See the link below and you'll start to see why lunaatics like him are allowed to stay on campus....

[Link: www.slate.com...]

231 Sharmuta

You are right, the school here bears a ton of responsibility for this. Wow is all I can say. If my kid were maimed or dead, I'd be suing for sure and calling for step downs of major heads in charge of this fiasco. It was handled completely wrong. I have BEEN a first responder in the fire dept and these guys did the WRONG thing by not shutting the school down after the first murder just because they ASSumed the shooter had left. While a U in texas shut down their school based on a mere bomb note in the bathroom. SMART!

#235 ChenZhen
I stand corrected, I think Babba's talking about something else.

246 NY Nana

It really bugs me how people take advantage of living in the USA. His parents even owned a business I read and they weren't citizens? I don't care if that is legal, that is weird and I certainly would never expect another country to allow me to live there years upon years without atleast trying to become a citizen.

Maybe I'm weird.

sick freak, he was

In 24 hours the media has blamed:

1. Bush. Great, let's get that out of the way.
2. Republicans
3. The NRA
4. Violent Video Games
5. The unarmed campus police.
6. Bush.
7. "Lax" gun laws in VA (even though they just passed a law forbidding guns on college campuses. Go figure.)
8. Imus. Ok, that was actually a caller to a radio show. I'm floored and confused.
9. Local Gun shows that occured within the past 6 months.
10. Charlton Heston. By name. Dear, God.
11. Homeland Security.
12. The VT Prez, his faculty, and probably his pets.
13. Mining companies in Appalchia. (ok, not really, but I had to throw that in there... that woman should have been physically removed)

...and yet calls the Killer a "victim of his own mind." Can't we at least wait, say, a day or two before heaping the blame around and pushing a political agenda? I'm a bit disgusted.

I don't give a hoot what the guys religion is. He is evil, period. Mentally ill? That's where the question lies. I have known people who are truly mentally ill; and they are usually only a threat to themselves. The disgusting part of this whole story is that he had obviously shown many signs of being unhinged. The good liberals of this world, over the years, have made it impossible to help anyone who is showing signs of mental imbalance, or "evil". Que sera, ya know. To them, evil doesn't exist. And mentally ill people should be able to make decisions for their treatment on their own. If you've ever know anyone with true mental problems, that is a joke, they aren't capable of making that decision! Very sad; in a country like ours no one knows what to do with a fellow man/woman who is having problems coping with life or with a mental disorder. The libs have closed down mental institutions, and you can't "force" anyone into treatment. Then they all cry and blame the guns when something this horrific happens. God help us all.

Just jumping in here from work at the moment. My bad.

Anyway, this stuff won't wait if it hasn't posted already.

From this blog, I found this:

April 17th, 2007
What does “Ismail Ax” mean?
4/17/07 01:10 pm

Ismail Ax was inked on the VT shooters arm.

The Chicago Tribune reported that the note included a rambling list of grievances that railed against “rich kids,” “debauchery” and “deceitful charlatans” on campus. The paper also reported that Cho died with the words “Ismail Ax” in red ink on the inside of one of his arms. ~ Fox News

I googled it.

During one night, Ibrahim had a dream. He came to Ismail and said: “O my son ! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you as a sacrifice to Allah, so what do you think?” They both realized that this was an order from Allah. ~ Prophet Ibrahim

I thought S. Koreans were Buddhists?

And upon further research I must say that if he was celebrating Eid al-Adha (Festival of Sacrifice), which was Ismail’s deliverance from death then he had his party dates completely screwed up.

Now, from THIS blog I got:

The Meaning of Ismail Ax
For those of you still searching for meaning in this phrase, written in ink on Cho Seung-Hui's arm and also how he signed his infamous note, it starts with the story of Ibrahim's Ax (Ibrahim = Abraham):

After making sure that nobody was left in town, Ibrahim went towards the temple armed with an ax. Statues of all shapes and sizes were sitting there adorned with decorations. Plates of food were offered to them, but the food was untouched. "Well, why don't you eat? The food is getting cold." He said to the statues, joking; then with his ax he destroyed all the statues except one, the biggest of them. He hung the ax around its neck and left.
--The Koran

Ismail was Ibrahim's son. It was Ismail that Ibrahim wanted to sacrifice for Yahweh (with an ax).

A reader pointed out that "Ismail" is also a variant on the narrator in Moby Dick, and although Cho was an English major, the relationship between Moby Dick's Ismail and an ax/e is less clear.

# posted by Bangkokker @ 11:59 PM 9 comments links to this post

AND from this blog I got:

Is Ismail Ax Cho’s Nickname?

By Nick Queen | April 17, 2007

UPDATE: Commenter Sandra has posted a better picture link showing these three to be French Middle Easterns. Thanks Sandra!

Yobud referenced Ismail Ax and linked it to Abraham and Ishmael. I have more on that here.

I am going to guess that this picture does NOT have Cho in it.

I have found one reference on the net to Ismail Ax. Could that be Cho Seung-Hui’s nickname? Take a look at this picture:

According to this site, a Skyrock Blog and the text there:

“mé cops à moi,
mohcine alias “the man with the smoke” à gauche & ismail ax au milieu.”

Ismail Ax is in the middle. Does he look like this man:

This picture is from May 29, 2006.

Popularity: 100% [?]

Technorati Tags: Ismail Ax, Cho Seung-Hui

Now, I'm just heading back to work. Enjoy the puzzle. Interesting stuff.

}:)

From hotair:
[Link: www.chicagotribune.com...]

After leaving the scene of the first shooting, Cho called a threat to authorities, saying there was a bomb at Norris Hall, about half a mile away from Johnston.

He calls in a bomb threat for Norris BEFORE he goes there AFTER he committed 2 murders? And there are no police going there in a hurry and the people at Norris are given no warning?

"Ismael axe" is a pretty tenuous connection if you want to make a case for Islamist terrorism here.

I'll need a lot more than that to buy it.

216

I believe "Karan Grewal" is an Indian (Hindu) name.

239 Dianna

That's a different person.

As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter what the goblin's background was. I don't care if he's Muslim, Korean, Buddhist, American, whatever, unless there's evidence he was acting in concert with others, and that doesn't seem to be the case.

The focus should absolutely be on the response, on us (where "us" refers to the non-crazed population.) When this sort of thing inevitably happens, for whatever reason, what should we do?

Some off thread good news
Charges dropped against Haditha Marine

#263 RTLM
That is not good news. They lodged bogus charges against that guy to get him to basically turn states evidence and testify against Sgt Wuetrich.

165 mamma winger

#145 Jehu

This did not happen in a vacumn. It started with the parents nearly total abdication of responsibility for this kid...

On what basis do you make this statement?

Umm...living on planet earth? That kids are not eggs that hatch then go develope in isolation all their life. Now we have the possibility he had a sudden brain tumor that made him crazy. Or completely hid from parents, teachers, everyone around him for years he was unstable. OR, as in most of these types of cases, people saw the danger signs, the signals and chose to ignore them...hoping it would all go away, or he would move to another neigborhood. Or we just applied inadequate bandages to the mortally wounded.

Of course he is entirely responsible for his actions. Never the less, this is not as if some meteorite fell out of the sky and killed those kids Monday. As it goes back to the beginning in Genesis....the thinking that turns loose murder into the human race was Cain's "Am I my brother's keeper?"

We will never end or even reduce this type of human disaster until we intervene. It is being played out in a Macrocosm in Iraq. What has been happening there is totally evil, indeed all over the world, total evil. And the West has essentially ignored that evil, that tyranny, or even made a profit.

It is a big shout to the earth from God: "You ARE your brother's keeper." Everyone IS responsible to a much greater degree than we have ever let on. The day of independent false freedom is coming to a close, we will know that all humanity is interdependent, and connected far beyond what we have pretended with artificial divisions of race, gender, religion, or nation.

And yes I know this is a huge nearly impossible philosophic hurdle for the human race. Look at the Hell Bush encountered when he got the huge and novel idea that just positioning hostile governments against each other is not a permanent answer to world ills, such as M.E. terror?

Almost the entire elite class wants to rush back to that dead womb...thinking it more stable, better than what is now having to be fought.

Our shooter also started a fire in a dorm and was accused of stalking female students.

So is more than just "Bizarre" writings.

#250 Bucephalus

See the link below and you'll start to see why lunaatics like him are allowed to stay on campus....

[Link: [Link: www.slate.com...]...]

So do you think that every student who suffers from depression or suicidal thoughts should be expelled from college?

#269 MM

Gah.

I wish there was a nice clear summary of what's confirmed and what's not.

BTW, the second play's marginally better written, but still pretty darn bad.

From I've read and watched so far, I'd bet this guy had severe psychiatric problems, either paranoid schizophrenia (sz) or bipolar disorder (bd). Growing up with a parent with schizophrenia and an uncle with bd, I'm aware of the warning signs of a psychotic break. Someone with sz or bd is usually very secretive and relatively high functioning (but seem a little weird) until they reach a breaking point and have a psychotic episode. Who knows what was going through this guy's head in the weeks or months before he completely lost it. Islamic teaching may have had an influence on him, but right now I don't think there's enough evidence for that.

His writings were a warning sign, but it's practically impossible to get psychiatric help for someone in most states because they have to be an imminent danger to themselves or to others. And since they are so secretive, you don't know that they are planning to harm others until it's too late. Similar things have happened in the past and will continue to happen until the states can develop practical ways to intervene.

RE: #224

The point is in 2002 2 S. Korean girls were accidently killed. The S. Korean media and citizenship went apeshit, soldiers were beaten and spit on in retaliation, the U.S. was flogged daily in the S. Korean media, several of our officials including Colin Powell went to S. Korean and apologized and the victims families were compensated to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Soldiers, mind you, who are in S. Korea to protect them from a maniac in the North. People who without the U.S. presence would be being ruled by this guy today (with help from China). They too would be living in the world's biggest prison to their North and yet they hate us and have intense societal racism against white and black soldiers.

You wont see any of that here and we are supposedly the arm pit of the world. You also heard little about this while it was going on.

I'm sick of being the world's media punching bag, including our own.

#265 Just_A_Grunt
I took a crack at it anyway -

ugh.

Hi Mama Winger, I was trying to respond to the criticism that his English professors hadn't foreseen that he was a homocidal bomb about to blow and done something to prevent the explosion. I certainly was not suggesting that being mentally ill excuses murder, and I sure don't see how you could derive that from what I wrote.

267 Bill Amos

I could be very wrong but, that is NOT the case with yesterday's killer. Bucephalus' link addresses that case.

269 Dianna

It is a confusing time.

#266 Jehu
So it is your contention that this 23 year old man's state of mind was the result of total abandonment by his parents?

You have no way of knowing that. You are assuming they saw the signs, even though he was at college. You are further assuming that if they did see signs, they dod nothing to try to help him. Did you know that you cannot force a legal adult into treatment? How do you know what the nature of their relationship was? How do you know they didnt try this, then that, then this again? How do you know they didn't beg him to see a doctor or a counselor. You don't.

You are simply speculating and throwing blame where it makes you feel good to do so.

#212 Kenneth - I know. The privacy laws where I work make it impossible to find out if a student you refer for counselling has followed up.

#270 iagofest a.k.a. abu fly killa

Someone with sz or bd is usually very secretive and relatively high functioning (but seem a little weird)

Uh oh, that sounds like most of the people I know.

#268 mama winger

No, just pointing out how an overly litigious culture has made it more difficult for potential problems like this to be addressed. Can't you see some social worker who recognizes that the guy might go off arguing with the University's attorney over whether they can expell him?

270 iagofest

He certainly was of the right age for either disease to rear its head but, are the psychotic breaks in either this elaborate?

#273 Lauraf

I certainly was not suggesting that being mentally ill excuses murder, and I sure don't see how you could derive that from what I wrote.

I wasn't implying that at all. I must have not expressed myself well. I was simply trying to say that you can't force anyone into treatment, and that being mentally ill doesn't preclude one from engaging in normal life activites, such as going to school. Not just universities face this dilemma, but all life venues as well.

Sorry I was unclear. :)