Ignoring the elephant or not wanting to jump the shark?

look at that handwriting---looks like a killer

doesn't know his zipcode from binary, either

Universally ignoring? You think?

Now Charles...

When you're a conservative Patriot, everything looks like a threat.

"There is no "WOT"
repeat 50x

First I have seen his handwriting and it is curious for somebody who has lived in this country as long as he did he still has the Korean or Asian manner of writing.

move along...debauchery

I still want to know what words NBC is bleeping -- and why!?

Just another example of why THEY MUST GO !

idols foookin idols

slam

sleep

sleeep

Elephant?

I dont see an elephant ..do u...Is it pink?
All I see are apes and pigs...pfftt!

Great point Charles....indeed ...
There's a kinda hush all over the world tonight...

I bet if the FBI finds anything on his computer we don't here about it either.

Normally I'm inclined to agree with Charles, but this line of argument is far too sketchy and/or speculative to be given much credit. The TCS article isn't that good either as it somehow convolutes derisive comments about McDonalds, and a sick generalization that grew out of the pedophilic priest scandal, into a general hatred of the West.

Ismail Ax could just as well have been an internet handle he adopted because it sounded cool. This incident fits the mold of Columbine--disaffected, alienated young men, more than anything else. It is, and was, a psychotic rampage.

Ignoring the Elephant

Just like we ignore Innocent baby elephants...killed for their ivory.

hmm, where have I heard this pap lately?

#13 Angel

Are you saying that this has something to do with Herman's Hermits?

This world is just plain weird these days. It's insane that nobody had the balls to try to be his friend or just talk to him about his obvious antisocial problems. I wouldn't want to be roommates with someone who didn't look at me or only replied with one word answers. Just...creepy, man.

His parents, wherever the heck they are, must have something to say about this...

Really this is all speculation UNLESS ties to islamic jihadists can positively proven.

The idiot might have glorified the idiot suicide bombers, seeing how they are so revered in muslim society.

This guy was mentally deranged, he might have just been "romatisicizing" the stupid jihadis.

Might this sicko have been diagnosed with dyslexia?

Sage

Y'all are watching Idol, admit it!

CNN spent like 10 min on the AX Ishmael thing today. From the closed captioning, it looked like they concluded that it was Biblical.

I know it's not thanksgiving...but thanks Charles

I need to appreciate those that are ...well how does a Nigerian oil driller under influence from Islam affect your life?

oy

I'm going to hold back until I get more information on this one.

Guys this defective unit just doesn't follow the profile. No terrorist handbook (Koran) that I have heard of, no final prayers on any of the tapes, so far. This guy was just all over the place.
I reserve the right to extend and revise my remarks as more of the tapes and his letters become public knowledge.

cbinflux

I'm in CA, it doesn't come on for another two hours.

This is all we need right now, huh?

#21 cb

I'm watching IDOL - Sanjaya must go !

LOL!

I think Ismael AX is his twisted way of invoking Malcom X. as in "by any means necessary". Just a thought. I haven't heard any talking heads throw that theory out there yet.

There WAS an elephant, ignored, insane
mewed to
seen by a professor and put out of class
enamored of a girl
huge elephant
declared insane
overnight observation
and then
released back into the herd...

...where he murdered 32
and killed himself!

#16 Shug

No, the innocent baby elephants were killed by starving boulders looking for water while they avoid rogue armies.

Although I do like We Are Virginia Tech but it sure sounds alot like We Are Marshall.

They were just talking about this on Hanazi and KKKolmes. So I reckon the answer is for everyone to watch Fox.

Does he mention Apollo Ono?

18 indolene

They're bombarding the airwaves with accounts from folks who tried to speak with him, in class, socially, etc. He was a zombie who was being passed in classes he in which refused to participate, left in classes when other students complained, and allowed to ignore the advice to seek counseling.

/It is possible that someone needs this level of media coverage.

#28 mama winger

I agree, but don't give it away to us left coasters.

On the back of the package, he really struggled with the zip code, he writes it 3 times and crosses it out. Shows how agitated his state of mind was - unsurprisingly - concentrating on small tasks almost impossibe.

Why hide your real name when you know you're going to die?

Maybe he was severely psychotic, disconnected from the world, and thought he really was Ismail or whatever.

No conspiracy there. Just lots of crazy

#19 bnolsen 4/18/2007 6:38:33 pm PDT

Really this is all speculation UNLESS ties to islamic jihadists can positively proven.

The idiot might have glorified the idiot suicide bombers, seeing how they are so revered in muslim society.

Seems that way to me too.

I have to agree with #15 Psicattus. This isn't very conclusive evidence that he was a member of the ROP.

#29 mich-again

I think Ismael AX is his twisted way of invoking Malcom X. as in "by any means necessary.

You have a problem with my name, mich?

;-)

#35 DesertSage

My lips are sealed. Nothing is revealed.

:)

26 sage

Too funny, you're psychic!

The MSM feels that associating a name like Ishmael with terror would be almost as offensive to muslims as publishing a Mo cartoon... And we all know the MSM's fear of ruffling muslim feathers.

Sounds more like he was trying to create a id for himself like BTK, the Zodiac etc.
GTG

He couldn't have identified with the ROP ... otherwise he'd have been peaceful, right? 'Cause we all know that Islam means peace. Right?

DesertSage

lol..naw then his pen name might have been Henry the 8th eh?

o wait..didnt ole Henry lob off someones head too?..ha

About his diatribe

The material is deeply angry, crying out against unspecified wrongs done to Cho in a diatribe laced with profanity.

Sounds like any leftist editorial or blog post.

31 silhouette

oh right. thanks for that. I forgot all about "roog" boulders set free by Gravity ( invented by Bushhitler &Co. : a subsidiary of Haliburton, Inc. )

Of course it's not Islam, Fenimore Cooper, Moby Dick or any of those other things that inspired this chap, it was the Beatles.

wow

the guilt is fookin tremendous!

you are not fucking guilty

#43 Frank_Mtl

.

..of ruffling muslim feathers.

Muslim feathers ? Ignoring the Elephant?

Is the Animal Planet thread?

I did read on the yahoo news that they took some books from his dorm along with his pc and some chains. I would like to know what the books were.
Personally I think even if he had a koran in his back pocket that we will never be told that. Now if he had a bible or some other religious text that would be plastered on all the front pages.
just my 2cents

Cbinflux-

Not psychic, just responding to #13 Angel...

There's a kinda hush all over the world tonight...

That evidence is too genuinely conspiratorial for the "Bush caused 9/11" crowd. Most of the leftists consider themselves’ literature savants - they will forever reference Melville's opening line of his opus - and therefore proclaim him a Christian nut, ironically in the vain of Ahab and not of the character of Ishmael who uttered the opening lines and relayed the destructive story of Ahab's insistent actions.

This guy was no al-Qaeda member, he was a lone nut. But he did share the tendency of terror groups to blame others for his acts of murder.

I think Charles is onto something despite the lack of cold hard evidence as of yet..
but Truth be told...even if the evidence emerges..
who wants to take bets that it would be squashed before we ever saw or heard it?

I am a physician and had a son with schizophrenia. It appears highly likely to me that this young man was psychotic (probably paranoid schizophrenia) and the danger was not recognized. It is not uncommon for schizophrenia to be undiagnosed for a long time. I, and a psychiatrist my son was seeing seeing, missed the diagnosis for several months. It only became obvious after he said something truely psychotic to me one evening.

Very few schizophrenics do something like this... however it is always a possibility since they do not see the world in a rational way, as we do. I don't think religion had much to do with it. However, many schizophrenics do develop really weird views of God and religion. I think this is the likely reason for the use of the name Ismail.

#34 cbinflux :

True, but it just seems like they noticed more than they tried.. I don't know. People treat people with kid gloves these days. It's weird.

Crappy hand writing.

Look whose coming to town:
---

Dear UC Berkeley Faculty and Staff:

It is with great pleasure that we announce former United States President Jimmy Carter has accepted an invitation from our students to speak on the subject of his latest book, Palestine Peace Not Apartheid, on Wednesday, May 2 at 4:30 p.m. in Zellerbach Hall. Doors
will open at 4 p.m.

58 indolene

Lot's of folks tried. Try to catch some of the student interviews.

and some of his teachings and guidance and the reading of the story of his honorable birth. On this night, they approach Allah by giving sadaqa and presents to the poor and orphans, and special things for their families. They do this to show their happiness and thankfulness to Allah for sending the one who completes the perfection of character

What's with the 88 in the return address? Is that his real address, or is there some Skinhead connection?

I'm not convinced there's a connection here just yet. It could be a reference to any number of things that the kind of semi-illiterate wacko who'd write something like his "McBeef" play (real creative name, by the way, story of your life asshole) would draw on at random to try to give himself more importance through symbolism than he had by substance.

Like Grunt said, this guy was just sort of all over the place. It's definitely intended to be symbolic, and could very well be referencing something with Islamic roots - but even if that's the case, considering how rambling and disorganized this guy was in terms of just railing against everything and nothing all at once (Christianity, Mercedes-Benz, 'rich kids', capitalism, whites, Mcdonalds, debauchery, hedonists, etc. etc. ad infinitum) I doubt it had any real meaning even inside his own mind, other than as another badge of (generic) martyrdom that he could slap on himself.

I really can't see him doing this to satisfy any entity other than his own hatred of everything and everyone.

Charles, I thought the Ismail Ax thing was derived from James Fennimore Cooper’s story “The Prairie," as revealed at Hot Air:

You probably already know this, but in James Fennimore Cooper’s story “The Prairie,” the settler Ishmael Bush, who is attempting to escape from civilization, sets out across the prairie with two key tools, a gun and an axe. Each has a symbolic meaning. The axe — which can either kill or provide shelter — stands for both creation and destruction. Given that the VT killer was an English major, might this be the likely meaning of the words on his arm? Just my two cents.

More recently someone posted that Cooper was indeed studied at V Tech, and that as an English Major, Cho would have taken the class.

I thought this Cooper "Bush/Ax" theme was generally agreed upon. Am I missing something?

I noticed the handwriting first off, looks like your average killer handwriting to me...

He was psychotic, paranoid schiz, as the physician above comments. He collected bits of pop culture like flotsam and just as easily might have referenced the zodiac, comic books or Germanic mythology. I suspect he used Ismael because Gotterdamerdung is longer and harder to spell.

This guy really had too many inspirations for his act. Hate was his mentor. But the next one may not be so idealogically cryptic.

"And continue to remind for surely the
reminder profits the believers." (51:55)

f that

Don' ax me. I don' see no elefunt. Jus an Ishmael.

I can even spell it. It's Götterdämmerung.

I think this (scroll down) is more likely than Islamic influence:

in James Fenimore Cooper's story "The Prairie," the settler Ishmael Bush, who is attempting to escape from civilization, sets out across the prairie with two key tools, a gun and an axe. Each has a symbolic meaning. The axe -- which can either kill or provide shelter -- stands for both creation and destruction. Given that the VT killer was an English major...

Of course, we're trying to analyze the ravings of a complete nutcase. Good luck with that.

At least one classroom had simple common sense

Petkewicz looked at the classroom door. It struck him that "There’s nothing stopping him from coming in here. We were just sitting ducks."

Galvanized to action, Petkewicz grabbed a table and with his classmates shoved it against the door. Students stood at each end of the table holding it to the cinderblock walls around the door frame.

The shooter, Cho Seung Hui, his bloody work done in the classroom next door, "tried the door handle" Petkewicz said. Finding the door blocked, he threw his shoulder against it, forcing it open six inches.

Petkewicz and his fellow students pushed back as Cho emptied a clip through the door. They heard him reload, but "he didn’t try to get back in the second time." Instead, the killer moved down the hall for easier game.

"Ismail" or "A Ishmail", phonetically, is close to "Is Male."

Given this guy's obsession with child molestation, the references to 'banana bar to the face' in his writing, the obsession and stalking, and the totally non-masculine manner in which is holds a hammer... this guy had some serious sexual insecurities. "Is male" is something he wanted to remind everyone.

psst, I have to agree with some folks on lower threads:

- Take this guy's photo(s) down (perhaps replace them with those of the victims)
- Give the investigation some time, and heat if necessary (what are those bleeps, the books, his recent contacts...), and if this has no real ROP link, move on to LGF's main focus.

//Ajax, and folks who've really pissed off Charles.

#65 zombie

So do you also think there's significance in the literary Ishmail's last name being Bush? Have seen a few theorize he was somehow trying to express moonbat rage toward Bushitlerburton. Personally I think that's reaching more than a little, because if that was his aim he probably would have said more about it on the tapes.

#54 Eric's Conscience #37 SimonML: Drudge is running a story now that reports the Shooter was adjudged insane, kept for observation, then released back into the wild.

INSANE!

People tried to talk to him, he rebuffed them!

People NOTED his passive, incoherent behaviour; they were ignored!

Like a predator, however, he OBSERVED the juvenile nature of the college 'kids' around him... the terrible spirit of 'it breaks a village', and the Shooter needed to put a huge harpoon into that terrible white whale!

There IS an elephant in America's living room!

If the blood-thirsty media persists in the way they are framing this issue (war between haves and have nots) all it will take is one more similar event (and copycate events DO happen all the time) and Lefties/anarchists/animalrights wackos/earth firsters/glowball worming true believers and assoted moonbats WILL take to the streets and wreak violence on the level of CIVIL WAR.

The theme of GUN CONTROL must turn into MEDIA CONTROL and PRONTO!

Qur'an 8:59 "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

just quoting

#67 Deuce

Exactly. What ever was dark and gothic and romantic in a sick deathly sort of way got rolled up into his ball of deranged yarn. Which includes a lot of aspects of islam.

The problem is, if he was a Muslim, or if he was doing this for islamic reasons, we will probably never know because the FBI, the US Government, and the Media will suppress it, just like they suppressed the Salt Lake City shootings. Or the kid who blew himself up outside the football game. Or dozens of other incidents.

67 Deuce- your explanation makes more sense.
My first thought when I heard NBC had a tape from Cho was that it had to be a hoax. The more I think about it , the madder I get. Why the eff did NBC air it? Why? Do they need ratings that badly?

hello...we want your sheep

Qur'an 13:41 "Do they not see us advancing from all sides into the land (of the disbelievers), reducing its borders (by giving it to believers in war victories).

77 carridine

(Ding Ding) No more posts, we have a WINNER! (Ding Ding)

81 banner
Totally agree.

It's hard to find sense in nonsense, reason in the unreasonable, order in chaos. I think it's a natural human reaction to want to untangle the yarn , but sometimes it's just too big a knot.

Theories on the meaning of 'Ismail-Ax'.

that was a martyr video...so glad all the pundits are making a disinction...not

If he was mentally ill, there are usually many signs to indicate the depth of psychosis. Was his room a complete mess (I don't mean typical teenager stuff) or excessive phone calls, strange smell, I could go on and on. I have known many people who have displayed these and more. I am curious as to which meds (if any) he was prescribed. Sad to say, this probably could have been prevented.

Personally, and as others have noted, I'd prefer to simply allow this miscreant to burn where the sun don't shine, and leave him to Stan's own devices. Turn up the heat, Stan. And when you're done grillin', we're coming for you, and your dark side minions.

#15 Psicattus

Ismail Ax could just as well have been an internet handle he adopted because it sounded cool. This incident fits the mold of Columbine--disaffected, alienated young men, more than anything else. It is, and was, a psychotic rampage.

Well, that's interesting, the moonbats insist that these are exactly the types of people that a certain religion tends to attract and if we just give them better jobs, fuller bellies, social workers and above all acceptance of their peaceful culture, this kind of behavior would *poof* disappear.

These are the same moonbats also insist that we allow the criminally insane into society and give up our right to bear arms at the same time.

btw, NBC's videos show him wearing a military vest and holding guns, maybe he got the idea from some of the parades in Palestine. Or, of course it's just coincidental.

#81 Banner

Or the kid who blew himself up outside the football game

When the hell was that? I don't remember hearing about that at all. Shit.

Jim

Do they need ratings that badly?

In fairness, they shared the exclusive pkg with all of the media (minus bleeps that they or authorities edited). For that, don't they deserve ~ the same level of praise given to Mercedes-Benz and Crest.

IS still more to see I say hold off

The 9:01 am postmark on the package indicated that 23-year-old Cho Seung-Hui may have paused between two shooting incidents on campus to mail the carefully prepared package of 27 video files, totaling 10 minutes, 43 photographs and an 1,800 word document.

zombie

Allahpundit's post from today indicates that the way he signed his name on the ticket seems to discount any Islamic reference.

But I've been unable to follow any of this today, so please ignore me as necessary...

Cho compares himself to Christ.

Thanks to you, I die like Jesus Christ, to inspire generations of the weak and the defenseless people.

More quotes

Do you know what it feels to be spit on your face and to have trash shoved down your throat? Do you know what it feels like to dig your own grave?

Do you know what it feels like to have throat slashed from ear to ear? Do you know what it feels like to be torched alive?
Do you know what it feels like to be humiliated and be impaled upon on a cross? And left to bleed to death for your amusement? You have never felt a single ounce of pain your whole life. Did you want to inject as much misery in our lives as you can just because you can?

Wa, wa, wa. The cool kids don't like me. Nobody has ever suffered like me.

/nobody knows the trouble I've seen

The media pretty much buried the fact that the DC snipers were Jihadis.

If Ishmael is significant, and Ishmael's ax which ties to idolotry, which is indeed the subject of the missive, then in about a month's time, we should be seeing this guy lionized in the jihadi pantheon of martyrs. Wait and see.
Of course he was a terrible nut, but so was Mohamed Atta. Flat, blank, expressions, scary presence. Why the talk about being oppressed? He hadn't had his throat cut or was crucified on a burning cross or any of the other atrocities he listed. Who is he talking about? Who is he claiming to fight for, that is to take venegence against Americans on whose behalf? Lots of questions.

#90 Cartman

'Stan' will welcome him with open arms...

Given that there are three possible literary sources for his name, I don't know why anyone would expect the news media to shout 'OMG MUSLIMS!@#'. I know many people here see a jidahi under every rock, but until more is known about his religious beliefs, we simply don't know. A lot of the preliminary speculation here has already been proven to be hysterical, (He MUST be middle eastern else they'd have named him by now!) so I'd just sit tight until all the facts are released. Details on a big story like this are often revealed slowly.

My bet is that he was not a member of any religion at all. The fact that he lauded the staunchly athiest Columbine killers as heroes and martyrs shows that his identification lies more with the persecuted outcast loner than the Palestinian suicide bomber.

I tend to think that even if most reporters weren't PC and left-leaning they still wouldn't want to dwell heavily on 'Ishmael Ax' (as spelled here). Armed only with pure speculation (is it about Ishmael Bush or Moby Dick or the son of Abraham?), it would be assuming to much to declare Islam a key issue for this guy, because there is simply so little known about what exactly 'Ishmael Ax' meant to Cho. Jerry Bowyer, in this article, asserts (not speculates) that Cho was inspired by Islam in his massacre. I find this shoddy and very low caliber reasoning, not because of some need to shelter Islam or Muslims, but because of the lack of a solid foundation before snapping out the connection with Islam, based merely on an intepretation of the vague words 'Ishmael Ax'. There are a number of fairly plausible accounts of those words that have been forwarded. Further, all evidence points not to a late Muslim convert in some fashion, but to a truly psychotic person with apparently other messages on his mind that day, other than jihad.

#81 Banner

Or the kid who blew himself up outside the football game.

What?

77 Carridine- Bingo.
Why are there so many homeless people on the street?
Thirty years ago, we could lock up a lunatic.
Some folks in asylums probably did not deserve to be there. Civil libertarians and courts agreed that society could not keep the mentally ill incarcerated if they were not dangerous. So here we are.

102 mandy

in Oklahoma

#102 Mandy Manners

Here is a bit more info on that...

[Link: www.fanblogs.com...]

92 rain patriot
Norman oklahoma. Last year I think. With the stadium packed the kid sits on a park bench and "commits suicide by blowing himself up" It was an obvious work accident that got covered up by msm. He was probly waiting for the people to start coming out of the stadium but mishandled the bomb.

#103 Jim In Virginia

Civil libertarians and courts agreed that society could not keep the mentally ill incarcerated if they were not dangerous. So here we are.

102 mandy

zombie, as usual was on it

[Link: www.zombietime.com...]

#107 me, and the post that was lost :)

#103 Jim In Virginia

Civil libertarians and courts agreed that society could not keep the mentally ill incarcerated if they were not dangerous. So here we are.

Do you disagree with that?

PBS special on interviewing CAIR's Hooper and they state that "a small minority of extremeist right wing and conservative groups and supporters of Israel" was used to describe critics of CAIR. Now they are interviewing the poor Muslims who are being targetted by mean ignorant Americans. One guy was actually "taunted" on FaceBook. He got "humiliated" by being questioned by FBI.

You know what a humiliated sometimes Arab means? Time to go blow up something.

Puke.

then in about a month's time, we should be seeing this guy lionized in the jihadi pantheon of martyrs. Wait and see.

[Link: www.ahlsunna.ca...]

Sunday May 20, 07 @ 1:oo pm

just asking?

#100 priapus

My bet is that he was not a member of any religion at all.

Yep, "moonbat gone south" in Thanos' excellent phrase a couple of threads down. In my opinion.

Did someone say elephants?

{TEXAS HEATHEN}! HEY!

Just effing great. Speculation R Us.

Call me when some facts surface.

It's worthless to try to decipher the mind of an insane mass murderer, because all the wires that bind us are broken in those people.

The only difference is that the antisocial, solitary self-obsessives are finding more efficient ways of killing innocent people, quite possibly assisted by the free flow of ideas available via cyberspace. Every advance creates some sort of heartache, but in the total perspective of everything that has and will happen on this Planet Earth, it's not like "Ismael AX" really amounts to a hill of beans, in spite of the horrific suffering he has imposed on people who didn't deserve it.

But in every case where madmen slaughter innocents, they never deserve it. That is so real it's idiomatic, like a mathematical certainty. Evil exists throughout time in every imaginable form, but this one delusional individual was not unique, just another malfunctioning analog of malfunctioning analogs throughout time.

We and those who are the victims must, for the sake of their and our own health and sanity, move on to whatever diminished existences that they and us - peripherally - now live. It wasn't our fault, all of us who see such extreme events with horror. But strength is derived from the unnecessary suffering of mankind, as the Israelis have proven by a thousand-fold.

It's OK to mourn and be hurt, because those who aren't hurt don't have functioning hearts. But it doesn't change the fact that life itself is just a passing event. In the end it's dust to dust. The true heritage of living is in the health of those who live after, those who are influenced by our own good or bad work.

It's all up to us, and nothing has really changed.

I bet %99.9 of MSM reporters have never heard of the possible connection.

KosKidz: Supporting mass murdering psychopaths should be covered by "free speech"...
Breaking: Univ. of Colo. student arrested for remarks about VA Tech shooter

BOULDER, Colo. (AP) -- A University of Colorado student was arrested after making comments that classmates deemed sympathetic toward the gunman blamed for killing 32 students and himself at Virginia Tech, authorities said.

I'm genuinely scared that the usual suspects who have railed for years about leftist academia will use this incident as an excuse to significantly restrict freedom on college campuses. Campus "speech codes" that restrict all but the most innocuous of platitudes will become the norm. We all watched the previously unthinkable become reality after 9/11/01 under the mantra that "9/11 changed everything". I hope I'm wrong, but I'm scared I'm right.

The insanity is starting

Student arrested over Va. Tech remarks Wed Apr 18, 6:13 PM ET

BOULDER, Colo. - A University of Colorado student pleaded not guilty Wednesday to making comments that classmates deemed sympathetic toward the gunman blamed for killing 32 students and himself at Virginia Tech, authorities said.

ADVERTISEMENT

During a class discussion Tuesday of Monday's massacre at Virginia Tech, Max Karson "made comments about understanding how someone could kill 32 people," university police Cmdr. Brad Wiesley said.

Several witnesses told investigators Karson, who turns 22 on Thursday, said he was "angry about all kinds of things from the fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people," according to a police report. Witnesses "said they were afraid of him and afraid to come to class with him," Wiesley said.

Karson, of Denver, was arrested Tuesday on a misdemeanor charge of interfering with staff, faculty or students of an education institution.

His father, Michael Karson, told the Camera newspaper that the comments may have been misinterpreted and questioned whether his son's free speech rights had been violated.

"I would have hoped that state officials would know their First Amendment better than they seem to," he said.

University spokesman Bronson Hilliard said privacy laws prevented him from releasing personal information about students.

At Oregon's Lewis & Clark College, another student was detained by campus police Wednesday shortly before a vigil for the Virginia Tech victims when he was spotted wearing an ammunition belt. Portland police later determined that it was "a fashion accessory" made of spent ammunition, and said the man did not have a weapon. The belt was confiscated.

#116 grumpy

It's OK to mourn and be hurt, because those who aren't hurt don't have functioning hearts. But it doesn't change the fact that life itself is just a passing event. In the end it's dust to dust.

Very well put. None of us is promised tomorrow. There is no guarantee of safety. Life is a risk. If my time came tonight, I would be ready in my soul. I hope the same for all of us.

Laurie David and Sheryl Crow: Stop Global Warming College Tour: Nashville, TN (HuffPo)

Spending the past week speaking to thousands of college students across the Southeast, the recent tragedy at Virginia Tech has really hit home. We would like to take this opportunity to send our sympathies to the families and friends of the victims. In remembrance of those taken from us this past Monday in Blacksburg, we are taking a moment of silence at each tour stop this week.

--Sheryl & Laurie

Our other surprise was a visit by former Vice President AlGore who sat and talked with us on the bus about what he hopes to see happen in this country as the stop global warming movement catches fire. Having the former Vice President visit was like having your dad show up for Father's Weekend at the sorority house. We were giddy with excitement and proud to show him our home away from home.

Shug and Odinist

I didn't hear a thing about that!

Ok, Pravda knows what happened: poverty and depression caused the kook to do it...and they moved to the U.S. where the father would be unknown. Huh?
[Link: english.pravda.ru...]

Freedom may suffer retreats periodically and tyranny may advance occasionally. Yet, free people everywhere will meet any challenge and pay any price to safeguard the precious treasure of freedom for themselves and the finest bequeath they can leave for the next generation.

I don't know. The more I am seeing, the more I am thinking that this was just one VERY sick, VERY mentally ill SOB who should have been put away back in high school.

I don't think any religion can be blamed for this one. Just one majorly sick mind.

121 cbinflux

and how are laurie and sheryl getting around on their little college campus tour?

Gulfstream 5 , perhaps?

#110 Judith -Gaaah! Perpetual victims.

:(

#113 nextstopmars !

The name he wrote on the letter is "Ishmael" which is hebrew rather than the arabic "Ismael" (without the "h") thus placing him significantly within the biblical narrative rather than the Koranic one.

This is an important distinction and seems to suggest that even if he was inspired in some way by either the biblical story or by Islamist fundamentalism he was some sort of "quack" rather than a "true" jihadi.

hiya {m}
Long time no type to. Haven't been able to get to the ddt cause I'm in China. A few more days and then I get to go back home. I really miss my lovely wife.

Something that drives me absolutely to the point of a double Jack Daniels is the use of the word ALLEGED by the news media when describing the actions of various scum of the earth criminals and wrong-doers.

Today on my local Fox news radio station, 610 WTVN in Columbus OH, the newscaster actually referred to this sick twisted fuck as "the alleged shooter"

Are 32 humans allegedly dead ?

WTF. Who are they afraid of offending. PC is killing us.

I will be calling them in the morning.

No Jihad linkage.
Ismail Ax? Jesus? Rich kids?
He was fucking nuts.

Bill Amos

how many people check out the deepest threat? Pakistan ...today.

ok ///thanos you're excused

truth is the best lie...people don't give a damn...cept when it's within 50-500 miles

115 mike c.

Amen, and cut back on the CF's.

I have a friend whom I had known for many years. In the early 1980's, he was diagnosed borderline schizophrenic, but at the time, he showed no signs I could see.

When we were friends, he was an agnostic, lived the life of a rock star, spent money like a lord, swung from chandeliers, and generally had a ball.

Over a four year period, he began to write bizarre, women-hating manifestos, and to become deeply religious. He now lives in empty rooms, eats sparingly, and rarely goes out. He has become a Muslim and will not even shake a woman's hand.

However, he has his own very special personal brand of Islam. Basically, it's a lot of crap he made up by cramming together bits of the Koran, the Bible and the Torah. He reads incessantly and prays five times a day, and writes bizarre rambling screeds about women destroying men's brains.

I long ago stopped looking for motivations for his behavioral sea change. The mo-fo is just plain whacking crazy. Yet many who do not know him spend countless hours trying to "get into his head" or figure out his "deep writing".

There's no depth to the VT murderer. Just an insignificant whackjob who happened to be both evil and psychotic at the same time.

While complaining about rich kids who have everything, he mowed down a bunch of highly accomplished and hard working people, all of whom were credits to the community, some laboring for Habitat for Humanity and performing other acts of public service.

What did this creep ever do except take pictures up girl's skirts with his cell phone and set his dorm on fire? His "manifesto" is a mirror to his malignant narcissism. It's all about how mean everyone was to him.

Well, what the hell did he ever do for anybody? Ever? When did he ever make any effort to interact positively with his fellow students?

Never, apparently.

Yet, lefty newspapers are already trying to turn this piece of detritus into a martyr because they too couldn't get the pretty girl in school.

Uber-losers.

Trumpeting the killing rampage of a stalker who behaved abusively toward women...wow, how far the left has fallen. What a wonderful hero they now have. He really struck a blow against the military industrial complex every time he shot his cell phone up a girl's panties. Yeah boy, he's a rebel.

I think the main issue here is that this guy was psychotic. He was ruled mentally ill by the courts, yet released. The fact that he was using an Islamic pseudonym is endemic of the fact that the religion is Islam embraces and fosters violence. But in this case, we have nothing more than a psycho killer adopting a convenient facade, rather than Islam creating a killer.

#130 Crom

The use of "Alleged" is a matter of reflex. They have interalized the PC crap so much it has short circuited thought.

#115 Mike C.
I agree, the Ismail thing could mean anything. Possibly a literary reference or and imaginary friend. I seriously doubt Islamism is involved.

#129 Texas Heathen -I'm sure you do! And the gorgeous girlies. I know they miss you too! Hey, wonder if your house will be painted a different color when you get back?

:)

You did it for her!

This seems a bit farfetched to me, too. There just isn't enough back story here to connect this Ismail/Ishmael Ax business to any coherent belief system or even to a reference point.

I read his "play" about the stepfather. I think he may very well have been sexually abused by a male at some point in his life, because he seems obsessed with the subject. He accuses the stepfather of abuse, asks him if he's a (pedophile) priest, wants revenge but ends up being the victim himself. There is a lot of rage and self-hatred there - more than enough to explain his depression, lack of social interaction, violence and suicide.

The stepfather's name is "Dick" (gee, what a clever play on words - not), and the narrator of Moby Dick is a man who tells the reader to call him Ishmael. But Ishmael is the sole survivor at the end of the novel.

In other words, who the hell knows what was going on in the barren wasteland of this guy's mind?

126 shug
Nah, a big ol' diesel soot spewing bus.

/But I'm sure that it's had a tune-up, nothing excess is being carried (well, except Al 'LardAss' Gore), and they have used Cray's to determine the best possibel routes for minimum miles/max mileage.

118 Killgore 119 Bill Amos
I think this Cho definitely shook the crazy tree.

What a world

U.N. to suicide bombers: Knock 'em dead [Cliff May]

I was just on a BBC radio program talking about Iraqi refugees. A UN official put the blame on the U.S., Britain and other coalition countries.

I suggested that perhaps those organizations and foreign powers dispatching suicide bombers to blow up innocent Iraqis in the markets, and those threatening to kill Iraqis who remain in their homes, might have some responsiblity for causing Iraqis to flee.

But he said "no" — the Americans and Brits who destablized a previously stable country are the culprits. (And he said nothing about the millions who fled from Iraq Saddam's "stable" regime.)

So, in essence, the UN today used the BBC World Service to send a message to al-Qaeda in Iraq, to Syria and to Iran. That message: Keep on killing Iraqis. You will not be held to account. You're doing fine. Keep it up. It doesn't bother us a bit. When you kill innocent women and children you're achieving your goals — you're doing harm to the West. We're with you. We'll defend you and we'll attack those you want us to attack.

Can someone remind me why precious taxpayer dollars continue to go to this organization?

Many people seem amazed that someone can be judged mentally ill and yet not be incarcerated in a mental institution for the rest of their natural life.

Wake up people. This isn't 1952.

Apologies to Mike C. but I just have to link to this...
Exclusive: Killer's "Manifesto" reportedly references 9/11 attacks, agrees with ideology behind attacks

Hot air sez...

Update: I know people are going to start sending me this link soon, so let me flag it now and warn you: the Northeast Intelligence Network is a notoriously alarmist site. Before you go jumping at shadows about jihad and 9/11, wait for a credible media source to report it.

138 m

#129 Texas Heathen -I'm sure you do! And the gorgeous girlies. I know they miss you too! Hey, wonder if your house will be painted a different color when you get back?

LOL
I'm just hoping someone mows the lawn.

akak

Is this your words, or a cut-and-paste from elsewhere? It's very important to know the truth.

Freedom may suffer retreats periodically and tyranny may advance occasionally. Yet, free people everywhere will meet any challenge and pay any price to safeguard the precious treasure of freedom for themselves and the finest bequeath they can leave for the next generation.

Speak.

#57- John655 has quite an insight. I believe Cho was mentally ill and no one did anything about it. He was rambling and raving. Ismail could mean anything.
Just saying...

mamawinger 109- something is seriously wrong when we can't keep people off the street unless we are absolutely sure they are dangerous.
14 years ago an 18 year old man in Alexandria was arrested for hitting a stranger at a gas station with a hammer. He went to jail for 12 years and spent most of the time in the psych ward. Twelve days after he was released he was walking down the street, spotted a seven year old boy playing in the yard, and slit the kid's throat.
The guy was voices- talking- to- you crazy. But he'd served his time so they had to let him go.

OT

TCS also has a good article reviewing Robin Aitken's book on the BBC.

[Link: www.tcsdaily.com...]

#148 Jim

But that was someone who had committed a crime and been sentenced. Very different than someone who is mentally ill and in a mental health facility on a volulntary basis.

#96 Silhouette: self-pity is an intoxicating drug, more addictive than heroin and even more dangerous! Delusions of grandeur also FLOW FROM a consciousness focused on self-pity: "There IS pain in this world, MY PAIN, MY PAIN IS GREATER THAN THAT of JESUS of NAZARETH!"

#103 Jim: exactly, Sir! The infantilization of America, coupled with the dedicated, applied anti-Americanism of the ACLU are wreaking this terrible havoc!

"Oh, he's chaining the doors! Look, he's fumbling with the chains, because he's got -woops!- he's got TWO revolvers in his hands... oh, my, what on Earth will we do? Where are the policemen? Who will save us? Oh, he's shooting the students in the face! Oh, oh... please put the gun down, plea-"

BLAM!

mama winger

If you hadn't already known how highly I hold you in my heart, then you haven't been paying close enough attention.

You've warmed my toes tonight. Thank you.

#91, NiceLass

A military vest and holding guns is indeed purely coincidental. I've held guns. Most conservatives have held guns. The guys in the infamous Hollywood shootout held guns and wore military vests too.

Camoflauge and handguns does not an Islamic fascist make.

On another note, Ismail-Ax doesn't have to have any real underlying meaning to it. It might mean he just really liked a certain poem at one point in his life.

To me, it smacks of a gamer handle. Since he was, you know, South Korean, and South Koreans are some of the most avid gamers on Earth.

m
If you visit the DDT tomorrow give the Ladies this for me.
{ddt ladies} oh and say wassup to guys.

#152 really grumpy big dog johnson

I know your secret. You aren't really grumpy at all, are you?

I won't tell :)

I've not seen and will not watch the video. If he is praising the Columbine killers we may have the start of a very sick cult here.
There are no gods but Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, and Seung Hui Cho is their prophet.

It hasn't taken long for this entire episode to be taken over by petty politics. The Euro press is already condemning the Second Amendment to deflect the realization of spiraling carp-hole that Europe is fast becoming.

Islam, what Islam? say the elites. Their moral cowardice is killing us. Literally.

Heathen~ I'll do it!

:-D

#156 Jim

If he is praising the Columbine killers we may have the start of a very sick cult here.

I think you may be right. I pray that you are not.

There is a very bad evil in this world.

Freedom may suffer retreats periodically and tyranny may advance occasionally. Yet, free people everywhere will meet any challenge and pay any price to safeguard the precious treasure of freedom for themselves and the finest bequeath they can leave for the next generation

no sheeeit dude

The early Muslims (in the first three centuries), never thought of setting aside a special time to remind people of the greatness of Muhammad (SAWS), his din, and his life. In fact, they used to celebrate his greatness all of the time because they were always in remembrance of him, not like Muslims these days. When the minds and the hearts of the Muslims became sick from seeking the pleasures of this life, so people needed remembrance that is beneficial.

[Link: www.ahlsunna.ca...]

/not making this stuff up...Mama writer...anyone?

Interesting the euros are blaming the second amendment.

I wonder how the Swiss feel about that line of commentary.

153 psicattus

To me, it smacks of a gamer handle. Since he was, you know, South Korean, and South Koreans are some of the most avid gamers on Earth.

Actually that was one of my thoughts too. Its another reason i'm very interested in what was on his pc.

"Ismail Ax" - the new Rosebud

Seriously, if Cho dropped the "e" in Korean, we are not going to learn from the FBI. If they search his files and find that he was a regular visitor to jihadi websides, Al Jazeera, or Keith Olberman's show, we are not going to find out. While we can all wonder if this dude did go sudden jihadi on us, we'll never know. Best not to jump the shark (as #2 JustAGrunt suggested), keep this one to ourselves until something conclusive comes along, and point to the endless stream of clear cut jihadis.

I would be interested to see his grades. Was he able to function in school?

#148 Jim in Virginia: I know of what you speak, Sir!

While working in a State insane asylum, I received the normal 6 weeks of training on how to deal with violently insane, in a humane manner prescribed by law. I don't find fault with that.

But the throat-slitting, child-killing, God-is-talking-to-me CRAZIES, who prove their non compos mentis by killing 'the Devil's children'... THESE CASES and more point up the present and growing need for a system of justice, NOT more 'laws'!

We have 104 PAGES of LAWS for TOMATOES, for God's sake!
TOMATOES!

We're being swamped in a sea of laws, legal forms and required permits, when what we all cry out for is Justice!

"The Best-Beloved of all things in My sight is Justice! Turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me." Baha'u'llah, the Glory of God

Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold attained cult status a long time ago. Here in Kansas alone there have been two prosecuted copy-cat attempts. All made by kids too young to be paying any attention in 1999.

The killer Cho would have been in high school at the time of Columbine. His demons had been clamoring ever since.

Ishmael is his "I'm-a-deranged-English-major" ham-fisted metaphor.

gotta go check on something.
BBL
{m}

I think it was on Malkin's site, but a very interesting aspect to this, is they have some documentation regarding a psychiatric history.

Interesting note, it appears, if this would have been pursued more, the mechanisms of the anti-gun establishment might have kept him from obtaining the weapon, given it would have been revealed in a background check.

which country did not celebrate Momo's b'day?...seems like a not so veiled threat

#161 shug

Interesting the euros are blaming the second amendment.

We need to understand that if an event like this presents the opportunity on th part of many Euros to demean democracy and self-determination, they will do so at the drop of a hat. Hell, our own elected legislatures willingly march with them in lock-step. Restrictive, repressed societies appear to be the current global favorite flavor of the day.

#153 & 162

Good catch.

And just to make my viewpoint crystal clear: I am NOT implying that Cho was a “sudden jihadi.” But the very noticeable reluctance of mainstream media to even mention this subject is a disturbing testimony to the power of political correctness.

I actually think Charles has been VERY clear here that he doesn't not think this is jihadist related. I am bothered as usual by the MSM not even mentioning it in regards to the reference which btw, can be a NUMBER of things...with all the blathering they are doing on every other subject that could also NOT play a part in this as well.

This site has done a good job on this topic. I give LGF posters huge credit and it is why I come here and not go elsewhere other than a select few like hotair and jihadwatch if I'm bored. I personally have ONLY seen what the media has allowed me to see. I keep all options on the table until they are ruled out. And there is Absolutely nothing wrong with that or making statements wondering about this and that until the facts are known, which they are not and they may never be...who knows.

I guess I've had my shot at being a first responder, everything is on the table imaginable until you can take it off the table.

143 mama winger

And we can't solely blame Libs for emptying the asylums; Ronald Reagan opened those doors and filled up the streets of many cities.

/off to dinner!

And just to make my viewpoint crystal clear: I am NOT implying that Cho was a “sudden jihadi.” But the very noticeable reluctance of mainstream media to even mention this subject is a disturbing testimony to the power of political correctness. "

And exactly right. The guilt of the MSM as Charles so succintly points out is just as much guilt by exclusion than by inclusion and collusion.

You owe no apologies or clarifications, Charles.

#115 Mike C.

Just effing great. Speculation R Us.

Call me when some facts surface.

Sometimes you don't have facts. Are you ever certain that there's oil in the ground before you drill? If not, does that stop you from drilling?

At least we have each other

That's what friends are for :)

RE: Ismail AX ?
I dun no. Seems like a stretch.
I'm more inclined to think it was just rage. Insane, overwhelming, out of control rage. He was probably under a lot of pressure, expected to be the 'good son' who succeeds at the university, but discovers that he wasn't that smart. Too much self esteem, perhaps? Expectations unrealistic?

It's tough to accept that so many people are smarter than you. University level competition is a lot tougher than High School. (Yeah, I'm that guy, not so smart. It screws you up, but then I was screwed up long before I got to college. So who's to say?)

Then its a numbers game; 350 million people, a certain percentage 'go bad'. Look at history; there has always been a few who go berserk.

He would have been a good recruit for jihad, but in this case, I'm going with the simple story. He was in over his head, couldn't compete, couldn't accept that, and it drove him nuts. Or perhaps he was insane first, and then couldn't compete?

The bottom line? Know how to defend yourself, and be prepared to do so.

#92 rain patriot - That was the moron suicide bomber outside Memorial Stadium during an Oklahoma Sooner football game last year. Only a few minutes afterward, OU President David Boren and the FBI said "no terrorism here, move on, just a "depressed loner""...a loner that tried to buy a LOT of ammonium nitrate a couple of days earlier from a feed store, and a Norman off-duty cop happened to be there as the guy walked away!

Psicattus 4/18/2007 7:36:03 pm PDT

#91, NiceLass

A military vest and holding guns is indeed purely coincidental. I've held guns. Most conservatives have held guns. The guys in the infamous Hollywood shootout held guns and wore military vests too.

Camoflauge and handguns does not an Islamic fascist make.

On another note, Ismail-Ax doesn't have to have any real underlying meaning to it. It might mean he just really liked a certain poem at one point in his life.

To me, it smacks of a gamer handle. Since he was, you know, South Korean, and South Koreans are some of the most avid gamers on Earth.

pac man you are a bad man?

has anyone linked to this site yet?

If someone has sorry for the repeat.

Ismail Ax and the North Korean President

Virginia Tech spree killer Seung Hui Cho, age 23, was found with a peculiar name written on his arm: Ismail Ax.
Americans Kidnap South Korean Boy 1982
The North Korean President · 5 days ago · No blogs link here yetThe Americans controlled everything in South Korea, and when a young boy went missing in 1982, the people searched for the boy by word of mouth; the Asian Intelligence Agency (AIA) put a stop on all media and threatened to kill anyone who continued to pursue the issue of the missing boy…

It appears that on April 12, “war” posted that Americans had kidnapped a South Korean boy in ‘71. War apparently ended the entry with the tantalizing non-sequitur of a name, Ismail Ax — a name that would not be known to the public until April 17, after it was connected to the worst shooting spree in American history. Then 5 days ago, according to Technorati (that would have been April 13), the entry was edited, 1971 changed to 1982, and the name “Ismail Ax” deleted.

The same day, “war” apparently posted a new entry, titled “The American Connection.” Here is the portion of that entry captured by Technorati:

It was generally assumed that Kim Il-Sung would die and Kim John-Il would succeed the President, and when the time came in 1994, the Americans had another plan to dispose of the Kim family and put a South Korean trained agent as the next North Korean President…

168 formercorpsman 4/18/2007 7:46:53 pm PDT

is they have some documentation regarding a psychiatric history.

Not sure if you read this yet or not:

Tells alot more than I knew about people knowing his mental status.

mamawinger- my wife taught (in high school) one of the girls who was killed. Another murdered girl regularly babysat for one of our daughter's best friends.
Wife said to me Monday night that there would be ripples through all Virginia from this. They aren't ripples, they are tidal waves
There is evil in the world. It is hard right now to remember that the Light has overcome it.

Soreback Jim

R u ignoring me?

It seems that the case of this malignant "Ismail/Ishmael A/Ax" is an actual, bona fide case of a demented nutcase hijacking Islam to use as a banner for his own sick violence.

(To the extent that the words "Ismail Ax" can be substantively connected to Islam...)

akak

No shirt.

I'll have to visit for a closer look. You inspire me.

FREEDOM OF IRAN

I saw Crow and David on Bill Mahrs show. Crow is against nuclear power because "it never turned a profit" and is always subsidized. She prefers "solar and wind power" (surprise).

Both wind and solar of course are heavily subsidized and are still pricey. But this dingbat is on a tour preaching to college kids and will never be pulled up on her stupidity.

Same show: Bill Bradley says ... "we need a 40 mile per gallon standard like they have in Europe". Completely false statement, moonbats in audience clap wildly.

139 Amy Re: play

He could have written another sequel for "Kill Bill" and fit right in with the Hollywood freaks.

Seung Hui Cho apparently identified strongly with the Islamic story of Ismail, the “Son of Sacrifice.”

Except, the address on the envelope clearly says Ishmael. as several people have pointed out above, there's a very big difference between the two.

/Occam's razor, the freak was simply an insane, antisocial, homicidal psychopath, nothing more

#162

I'd actually look for a livejournal account or social networking site where someone had that handle. Maybe he played WoW, or Starcraft.

The other day, I went across the street to a barbershop to get a hair cut. The lady cutting my hair went on and on about how all South Koreans were "ungrateful" for being allowed over here. I bit my tongue. Some of the nicest, most balanced people I know are South Koreans.

Understanding Cho on his terms would help us a heckuvalot more than assigning motivations to him based on something he wrote on his arms.

My husband who has not been up on this topic nor reads these blogs...found this picture interesting that O'reilly showed today copycat.

The whole picture thing is just sick and twisted. It's almost hard to believe that there is more to be released.

CbinBin #173
It was NOT Reagan who emptied the mental institutions,
it was Jimmy Carter, and the socialist liberals, in the '70's who wanted to 'mainstream' the mentally ill, and the retarded.

I know for a fact, because my mother was a RN at one of the institutions that the Carter socialist closed.

Nice try.

#182 Jim

{Jim} My heart goes out to your family and circle of friends.

There is evil in the world. It is hard right now to remember that the Light has overcome it.

We don't have to feel it. We just have to know it.

Know it. God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness. (But Oh Lordy, it can get mighty dim sometimes.)

I am praying for you in Virginia. Know that too :)

Here come the sympathy for the killer (Koskidz, of course)...
Virginia Tech Massacre and our Sick Society full of Lost Souls

We need to have a serious examination of who we want to be as human beings. Our cities and countries have grown so large that we consider any individual people we come in contact with as unimportant and disposable. Hurting them has no consequences. Being hurtful is OK. We don’t normally come face to face with the after-effects of our hurtful behavior and for the most part, we don’t care. That needs to stop.

"What have we done to deserve this?"
/Moonbat

cbinflux 183
Hey- you talking to me?
(Soreback?)
I didn't hear you bellow.
How you doing?

That Sherwood Ross seems to agree in principle with the Va Tech Shooter that we made him do this, is all any reasonable person needs to know about how psychotic liberalism has become.

Carter emtied the asylums because he wated to "mainstream" the whackos and "save" money. Good job, Jimmah. More of you friggin' legacy in action.

#177 Kong_an563

The bottom line? Know how to defend yourself, and be prepared to do so.

I've not heard the full story, but so far it appears that only a 77-year old Holocaust survivor understood that very basic truth.

Toujours Pret

191 kong

It was in all the papers... and Republican mayors and Governors sure seemed mad about Ronnie doing it -- well after Jimmah was gone.

Check the history vs. one anecdotal and personal data point.

Love RR, but them's the facts as I recall them.

PIMF - emptied and wanted in my post 196. Should use the glasses, but typing semi-blind is an adventure!

Jim
Yeah, I'm calling you out! ;^) see my 93

Source: "Letter, 'Manifesto' was ideologically driven rant against Western culture, politics and values... references 9/11 attacks on the U.S."

sometimes

err what are we arguing about jihad vs non jihad?

same thing really

#193 Killgore Trout

We need to have a serious examination of who we want to be as human beings.

Well, they could start by looking at the great majority of leftist kook teachers in public schools and universities, to start.

Then they could look through every other aspect of American life that the leftist kooks negatively affect.

But, they never will.

Fortunately, the great majority of Americans are starting to.

^^^
[Link: www.homelandsecurityus.com...]

De-institutionalization was a good idea gone bad, not thought through, and implemented poorly.

Warehousing of the mentally ill is barbaric, especially when there is no accountability, no treatment goals, and no end in sight. The idea was to get the mentally ill into a less restrictive environment, such as locally placed group homes and sheltered workshop settings. In theory, this is a much more beneficial situation for the mentally ill. The problem was, no one wanted these smaller group homes in their neighborhoods, and the mechanism for transitioning from one setting to the other completely broke down.

The whole thing basically fell apart, and frankly, most people in America could have given a shit. No one much cares for the crazy people.

But the very noticeable reluctance of mainstream media to even mention this subject is a disturbing testimony to the power of political correctness.

This isn't completely true. NBC does give some light to the fact that he signed the return address Ishmail. He doesn't really say why.

Late to the party, sorry...

Anyone ever read into hand-writing analysis? I've read one (yes only ONE) book on it and even I can tell you by looking at the handwriting that we have someone who's completely lost all touch.

This is the penmanship of a total and absolute nutjob (pestilence be upon him).

For those that missed it on the last thread with Cho..his scripts and poetry were much worse than just being a bad writer:

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Cho took pictures of fellow students during class and wrote about death, she said in an interview. "Kids write about murder and suicide all the time. But there was something that made all of us pay attention closely. None of us were comfortable with that," she said.

cbinflux- the $#%#^ media are giving this guy way too much attention. He does not deserve it, no one needs to see it and it sets a terrible precedent.
If I were king I'd yank their FCC license and censor anyone who put it on youtube, too.
Somewhere in America a 22 year old loner is planning to kill 34 people and send his own videotape.

perspective is amazing

pork anyone?

'Diplomacy working with Iran'
US Defense Secretary Gates says during press conference with Israeli counterpart that diplomatic efforts to resolve standoff with Islamic Republic are working. Peretz: 2007 critical year for thwarting Iran's nuclear program

/Pally state 07...Bush's legacy Condi say's so

#205

What a crock.

"dies as Jesus Christ"... in this context, is as religious as a can of dog food. Its the grandiose statement of someone in the grip of paranoid schizophrenia.

Slag off.

204 mama winger
I agree, I worked in a place that treated kids 10 to 17, once they hit 18, they could not be forced to stay in treatment. I know some ended up on the streets.

mamawinger, thanks for your prayers. Night all. Tomorrow will be better.

#211 got milk

Everyone wants the nuts off the street, but not in their neighborhood. feh

Goodnight Jim. Yes it will.

[Link: www.attackcartoons.com...]

unremarkable english major rantings...

Seems like--if he was really into anything Islamic--somebody will mention it--roommates, relatives, Muslim students, somebody. Until that happens, I think this line of speculation is a dead end.

Unless...is he the same guy in the posted photos of a group of people in Indonesia, one of whom was identified as "Ismail Ax"?
If he spent time in Indonesia, then yes, there is some kind of Islamic connection. But I've seen those photos, and the guy does not really look much like Cho. But surely somebody in Indonesia would by this time have said something. Odd place for a Korean to go to, anyway. And not cheap to get to...

#210 danger close

I swear that comment #205 must have got the banning stick, as it is now different.

I think you were responding to the comment that I first saw, and now it's changed.

He must have got the stick, liberality, or something like that.

So, what I'm hearing here is that the Lefties are starting to empathize with Cho?

Is Cho going to be their new Che?

I'm going to turn in too.

What a dreadful week.

208 Jim in Virginia 4/18/2007 8:08:21 pm PDT

cbinflux- the $#%#^ media are giving this guy way too much attention. He does not deserve it, no one needs to see it and it sets a terrible precedent.

My husband was telling me that way back when they used to make sure that the cameras were diverted at a ballgame when people would run out onto the field from the stadium seats. Their reasoning was not to give the offender air time because others will want to do it. I noticed that a few times in the last few years the person running out onto the field IS given air time..the cameras don't get cut to another part like they used to.

I sit on the fence with this, I want to know every little thing because I'm concerned with any laws that could come up from this and want to know facts so I can fight back effectively. I definitely see what you and others are saying and agree with it.

Marwan Barghouti calls for immediate release of BBC journalist

/well hell the Al Barghouti...sometimes pali...sometimes Saudi might cut you some pull for Gilad Shalit?

relatives have an obligation Marwan?

Qur'an 33:36, "It is not fitting for a Muslim man or woman to have any choice in their affairs when a matter has been decided for them by Allah and His Messenger. They have no option."

#217 republic

Yep, lightning in a bottle. Charles terrible swift stick.

#205 jordash1212

This isn't completely true. NBC does give some light to the fact that he signed the return address Ishmail.

Take a good look, the address on the envelope clearly says Ishmael.

/that's the Hebrew spelling and last time I checked, jihadis don't normally speak Hebrew

"Kids write about murder and suicide all the time..."

Hmmm...wonder why that is? Whatever happened to a happy, healthy upbringing? I could make some observations here, but find it neither appropriate nor productive. Sigh.

Charles, did the first commenter at #205 get the stick, or are my eyes playing tricks on me?

liberality?

Yes, comment 205 was nuked. I've had it with the thick-headed creep calling itself "liberality," and it's no longer welcome here.

never submit...good night

Did he always have a shaved head, else it might be a clue because the suicide bombers cut all their hair when they're going to kill themselves and as many infidels as possible.

#132 Just got back from reading the Pak papers matter of fact, but I'm too tired to write it up tonight.

A bit going on, 2000 religious leaders from 1000 madrassahs denounced Lal Masjid, and militant use of force etc. in a six point declaration. Do I believe it? A bit, think they are getting a bit fearful now that the terrorism has come directly home to roost, and things are happening on their soil instead of foreign.

National Assembly is going to be exciting the next few days, nobody expected it to be called with all that's going on.

Government gave in to Lal Masjid, is offering them land.

A Suspect in the 7/7 London bombings has surfaced in Federal court there from secret detention. Ya, Human Rights Watch is all over it...

#193 Killgore Trout

Our cities and countries have grown so large that we consider any individual people we come in contact with as unimportant and disposable.

If we all would just wear those "Hello, my name is" nametags this all could have been avoided. What needs to stop is morons like this writing down their thoughts.

#226 Charles

Thanks for the follow-up.

For a minute there...

220 Highrise (208 Jim)

I was not disagreeing or agreeing with Jim's central theme, but I do think that NBC's sharing of the mat'l counters the ratings greed argument. 93

#222 stuck in california

#217 republic

Yep, lightning in a bottle. Charles terrible swift stick.

I read it, and re read it 3 times, I couldn't figure out what in the heck he/she/it was refering to, and to whom they were addressing it.

The fact that a different comment went up in its place, had me thinking it got wacked, I just didn't figure out what the person was saying, and to whom.

208 Jim in Virginia

It is Main Stream Pork - MSP- we are getting now.
I can only think back so far but before this it was 24/7 Imus.
What was it before Imus?

#102, #104 Re: Joel Hinrichs suicide at University of Oklahoma

I'm an engineering student at OU and had classes with Joel. I have no reason to believe that he was involved in some sort of jihad plot. There were some rumors about that right after the story broke, but I really don't think it's accurate to say his suicide was some sort of Islamic terror act.

They aren't shy about showing him menacingly holding a gun in the picture he sent along with his media kit to NBC ... in between killing sprees.
I am outraged that NBC would give him the posthumous publicity that he craved... if there is another one like this soon, they have blood on their hands.

In my opinion, I think he was mentally ill to the tenth degree.

He displayed hostile behaviour, prompting multiple interventions, including law enforcement involvment, psych evaluation, complaints from fellow students, teachers, etc.

You would assume, given our history in this country with similar incidents in the past, it would be a little more clear in foresight, than hindsight.

Again, I am still perplexed as to why, with his first actions that morning, why more was not done to secure the campus, and at least having some plan of action for those couple of hours.

That just does not make sense to me.

Mainstream media are universally shying away from discussing an important piece of evidence

Well that's weird. I've been seeing it all over the place.

...But the very noticeable reluctance of mainstream media to even mention this subject is a disturbing testimony to the power of political correctness...

And Charles gets it again...and here is why?

This motherfucker wondered why? And had a lawyer and the whole english department holding his hand...

...the English department, also was present, Sandifer said.

"The police asked again whether I would consent to be fingerprinted," he said. "They also threatened to go through my garbage to get DNA evidence and investigate that way."

Dobrin and Kidd could not be reached for comment Monday, but Sandifer said he has had "unequivocal support" from his department.

Sandifer said he considered the whole episode an invasion of his artistic freedom, noting that he thinks the complaint originated from a rival Internet user with whom he has a separate ongoing dispute.

"I think it's poor police work to say that writing a fictional journal creates reasonable suspicion," Sandifer said. "It's the sort of thing people are worried about, and it's upsetting to see they are right to be worried."...

Valeas, lacerta

RichatUF

Why on earth would we make the unfounded leap to connect this guy with Islam just because he is a self-loathing, western-culture-hating, murdering psychopath who blatantly identifies himself with a name that is directly linked to that particular religion?

232 cbinflux

The one thing I chuckle at is it was sent to nbc, isn't that one of the worst rated ones?

If he wanted to reach the widest audience he'd have sent it to fox.

Ahh well, no one has accused him of being smart...yet.

#233 republic

I didn't get it either but Charles did.

Bubye Lib...

#226 Charles

Yes, comment 205 was nuked. I've had it with the thick-headed creep calling itself "liberality," and it's no longer welcome here.

That comment had me stumped, I thought, "WTH"!

Fortunately, I haven't seen that nic here much, or read anything that it wrote, but obviously you have.

#240 fiodax

Because Islam is demented satanism.

"...Here is the portion of that entry captured by Technorati:

It was generally assumed that Kim Il-Sung would die and Kim John-Il would succeed the President, and when the time came in 1994, the Americans had another plan to dispose of the Kim family and put a South Korean trained agent as the next North Korean President…"

Lizardim, this is a Conspiracy Theory of the first order! If this is connected to Ismail Ax, he was SERIOUSLY insane, and feeding his insanity with a toxic fuel of American meddling, Communist kidnapping and personal angst!

My Bible speaks of Ishmael, with an e not an i as in Ishmail.
(Its a Latin Vulgate printed in 1914) And lo and behold thats what the return address says too, with an e not an i. Look at the rest of his writing on the envelope. Its obvious he wrote Ishmael, not Ismail. Where is everyone getting the Ismail nonsense?

198 Cbinflux

Dude, it was in my home town, where I grew up. My mother was RN, senior administrative staff, worked there 25 years.

I saw the place close with my own eyes, in the late '70's, everyone in town was all upset because so many jobs were lost.

In the '80's the state turned the place into a women's prison.

There might have been other places closed in the '80's but it was because the Carter socialist started the policy of 'mainstreaming' the residents, because the socialist didn't like the idea of 'warehousing' people.

again, nice try. .

Cho is barking in hell tonight. His video reeks of jihadist influence, and when all is said and done, the world will know he was not being influenced by Christianity.

My opinion is that this guy was a nut job, influenced by so many things that they all became a strange construct in his warped brain. He built his own religion, with himself at the center (something man is wont to do), made blood sacrifices to himself and then died by his own hand to seal his martyrdom. Yes, it is all inspired by Stan, as he is called here, as is Islam... but we don't need to assign the evil of Islam to this guy's carefully designed creation of death.

There are enough Islamists that are right out in the open, waving their intentions in our faces. This guy was not one of them, although his evil emanated from the same place.

Regarding Cho's religion: The family regularly attends the South Korean Community Christian church, and Cho's been seen there according to an interview with one of the community leaders this am on NPR.

I'm thinking that Cho's just plain evil, the McBeef and other things indicate to me a moonbat over the edge, possibly with terminal BDS. The guy in the previous article by Charles noted a kindred soul in other words.

246 Mich-again 4/18/2007 8:21:17 pm PDT

Where is everyone getting the Ismail nonsense?

Well it's not necessarily nonsense :P ...yet. It was written ismail ax on his arm.

18 indolene

This world is just plain weird these days. It's insane that nobody had the balls to try to be his friend or just talk to him about his obvious antisocial problems.

Not true. Plenty of people tried to talk to him, and got no response - literally.

Did you ever have roommates in college? What were his suite mates going to complain about? "Gee, he's quiet and keeps regular hours. He doesn't talk, and I figure he's at class when he's not here. I'd like a new roommate." That would sound strange to an RA, I think. College kids are busy. In light of college roommate horror stories I've heard (and lived), I can see how his roommates wouldn't have paid him any mind.

What really gets me is the fact that all of this crazy shit was just all in his head, literally, since almost everybody who encountered him, to a man, said that he didn't talk at all. No socializing (except for stalking), no conversation, not even saying "hi" in public. How can you hate people you don't even know? What a sad, sick little fuck. For whatever reason, he got permanently stuck in junior high school on the "Hates The Cool Kids and Writes Shitty Vampire Poems" setting and stayed 13 years old right into physical adulthood.

There's a big difference between the rebellious kids and genuine freaks. I hope people put some thought into how to handle situations like this in the future.

Okay, I'll be the one.

For anyone weighing in with handwriting analysis, I'll remind you of the incident that launched this blog onto the big stage.

I'm not knocking any of you for speculating, but maybe a call for someone who knows how to analyze handwriting is in order.

#246 Mich-again

My Bible speaks of Ishmael, with an e not an i

And if anyone still thinks it's an i on the envelope, just compare it to the e's in Rockefeller.

/looks like an obvious e to me in his handwriting

Good night all.

Thank you for the greatest source of information on the net Charles!

LGF Rules!

The thing to do then, to prevent this sort of thing, is to reach out and embrace the disaffected in our schools. Befriend them, encourage them, be there for them.

No one deserves to be alone and hurting in a crowd of a million souls. Maybe trying to reach out to everyone won't stop all horrific acts like this, and I'd be foolish to say that you can save everyone.

But Cho wasn't everyone. He was someone, someone who was sucked into their own despair, and destroyed along with others.

So maybe we can save a whole bunch of someones.

And what of his family? I have only read that he came to America at age 8. Is there a family here or did he get shipped here from Korea by himself?

Killian Bundy says:

"/Occam's razor, the freak was simply an insane, antisocial, homicidal psychopath, nothing more"

and I Concur This Analysis!

256 Psicattus 4/18/2007 8:26:13 pm PDT

The thing to do then, to prevent this sort of thing, is to reach out and embrace the disaffected in our schools. Befriend them, encourage them, be there for them.

This sounds noble, but I have a feeling that the two gals who turned him in wouldn't agree with you on this one.

But the very noticeable reluctance of mainstream media to even mention this subject is a disturbing testimony to the power of political correctness.

It is disturbing- the press is there to suposedly ask questions, and report their findings, but now there are questions they won't even ask. If that's the case, how is the public going to be informed if certain questions will not even be asked?

Highrise

It's an indication of the disfunction of our society that everyone was talking about how sick this guy was yet no one connected the dots. I have two close family members who are clinical psychologists, and I have no doubt that they would have raised the red flag on this kid (I call him a kid because his development was seriously disrupted) in a heartbeat.

We need people with expertise to deal with those who are about to fly away to a private unknown space. We gave this guy clearance for takeoff, and look what happened.

Way, way back I and my friends talked about a person we all considered a conditional and peripheral friend and how his behavior was going to make him pay the price some day. One day, completely out of his mind, he killed himself and five other people in a traffic accident that was entirely within his character and yet entirely avoidable. The sad part was that this was a very considerate, intelligent and thoughtful person, when not brought to the insane place by substance abuse.

I was wrong. We were all wrong. It wasn't our fault, but our direct skepticism of what society do could to intervene played a role in our collective guilt to this day. There is no point at which being disconnected with those around you is truly acceptable, be you the deliverer of pain and suffering or the person who watches the whole train wreck unfold right before your eyes.

We all learn across the span of our lives, but a failure to be more connected with those whom we should be more connected with is one of the biggest single facilitators of grief and suffering that can be experienced.

I'm just grateful that I haven't been in that place for a long, long time.

But heed the warning. This won't be the last one.

Here's a Brief History of Deinstitutionalization

Sorry about the source, its the first one I found.

251 Highrise

It was written ismail ax on his arm.

Really? How do you know that? Is there a picture of his arm somewhere?

Also, it has to be put into the mix that he was at the peak age for schizo-affective disorder to kick in in males (19-25), and was on antidepressants... obviously not well-monitored ones. But take these facts and add into them his quasi-criminal, stalker-fire-setter behavior, and how in hell was he allowed to free-range on a university campus?

#88 akak

You're right. It is a martyr video. I can't believe that htis is the first place that I've heard that idea. Of course. that's why we come here, isn't it.

261 really grumpy big dog Johnson

My brother could be cho in a heartbeat. Same mantra.

To this day, my address/phone number is hidden from him and I can't be found...atleast very easily. Family members have been warned that I will move if he ever gets that information even though he is two states away.

I intend for it to stay that way and I can tell you one thing, if he did go to a U and shot up everyone, I would never feel guilty for not *being in contact to make the psycho feel included*.

Mich-again he came over with his family.

I do not think this has anything to do with Islam at this time. I may change my mind when(if) they release what he wrote.

#251 Highrise

It was written ismail ax on his arm.

Have the police reported that? So far, it hasn't been reported officially. And, if it's there, maybe that's spelled with an e too. Or maybe it's a rumor, like the girlfriend story.

/ I've seen the photograph of the envelope, no one's (publicly) seen the photograph of his arm

TO: Charles Johnson, et al.
RE: Things...

...are never as good nor as bad as initially reported.

I'm interested in learning more about this Ismail/Ishmael/Iswhatever business. And I hope that in due time we'll find out. However, cynic that I am, I'm not confident that we'll discover it via the FBI. Nor the ATF or BATF or BATFE or whatever they're calling themselves these days. [Note: They seem to have been having an identity crisis since January 1992.]

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Patience - A minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue.]

260 Sharmuta,

Again -- I've seen that envelope addressed all over the place. It ain't exactly being swept under the media rug.

263 Mich-again

It's all over the net!

You seriously aren't gonna make me go look for it! Google ismail ax silly goose.

"AX Ishmael"? Perhaps he was imitating Al Sharpton questioning the opening of Moby Dick...

268 Killian Bundy

Hey, I'm critical of the MSM for sure, but I've seen it in several pieces written that it was on his arm. I have no reason to think they'd actually LIE about this.

241 highrise

He was probably thinking of msNBC; He just HAD TO BE a KO fan!

#259

I agree. There is a point at where you do need to weigh whether or not you can do anything as an individual beyond turning them in. Who knows what might have happened had someone positively influenced Cho much earlier?

But we really need to look at how we can actively foster a culture that cuts down on the number of cases. As someone, I believe it was Ghandi, said "Be the change you want to see in the world."

#257,

His family lives in suburban D.C., an affluent VA town, and runs a dry cleaning business... I think more than one.
His parents must be in agony, regardless of their relationship with him.

271 Highrise

I did google it, I also found a connection to Korea and not ISLAM.

it doesn't matter if he was jihadi or not, or how "ismail" is spelled. One's mind, cannot, in our frame of reference look at these things and not see a link to Islamic Terrorism whether it is real or imagined.

Let's see:
1. I kill innocent people to make my point
2. I refer to my heros who everyone else calls "murderers" as "martyrs"
3. I go on and on about how bad all the "Christians" and "hedonists" are
4. I regularly use words like "revolution" and phrases like "blood on your hands"
5. and to top it all of i go by the nickname Ismail or Ishmael

If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck...

Why do we have to give this guy the benefit of the doubt? Why do we have to give Islam the benefit of the doubt? Let's make them defend themselves for once...maybe if he's not a jihadi CAIR will actually come out and condemn what he did.

What we are seeing is simply evil, plain and simple, jihadi or not...it doesn't really matter because they are the same.