Well said. When did the USA forget this simple lesson?

Songand dance man:

Someone on the radio today mentioned Sharansky. Got an opinion?

I shall refrain from comment, as olmert is not my hemmoroid.

This person also mentioned how former prime ministers had resigned over things that were not even their fault but whaich had happened on thier watch. eg, Begin, Mieir, Rabin, to name a few.

let loose the dogs of war

#4 paint-right 4/30/2007 6:45:26 pm PDT

Someone on the radio today mentioned Sharansky.

Sharansky knows how to fight for human rights.

Netanyahu knows how to fight Mohammeden savages.

Ditto #1!

Advice to Ohlmert:

1. Plug the missle defense gap. (Short range flat trajectory - Katusha, C-802's)
2. re-equip the IDF fully, you can't rely on just the IAF & armor.
3. Stop making war plans that revolve entirely around armor -- you are fighting the old wars, not the present if you do.
4. Have the Navy ready, lots of C-802's in theater, my money's on an attack on a ship soon.
5. You need the more of the Apache - A10 type aircraft and less of the Air Superiority fighters.

yes, i like Bibib also, i was just wondering what others' opinoins of other person are. Any others like Bibi?

# 5 maddogg

Wise decision. We have plenty of Israelis on this blog - let those with first-hand knowledge duke it out, and thereby educate the rest of us in the process.

#2 experiencedtraveller

When did the USA forget this simple lesson?

Anzio.

If you’re going to commit your nation to a war, do it all the way, no half measures.

Tell the truth about the enemy.

Don’t stop until it’s truly finished, no matter what the “international community” says.

Well said! It's not too late to learn this lesson!

#11 I like anyone but Ohlmert

Hubris.

Olmert won't resign, but he'll be forced out.

His crime was acceding to the Bush admin plan to save Hezb'allah.

#10 Thanos

Advice to Ohlmert:

And get to the Litani faster next time.

/there will be a next time, Hezzbolah can't help themselves

As a result of your inaction, Mr. Olmert, you have condemned your citizens to die the next time.
And there is going to be a next time.

#3 et al
Yes, Bring Bebi back FAST!

Re Olmert - Please show up at Cedars of sinai Hospital (Out Patient division) tomorrow morning at 0800. Your testosterone shot is ready and maybe that will make a mensch out of you!

Impossible to compromise with uncompromising people and with people who don't play fair, fight fair, who murder civilians etc etc etc.

And if the terrorists do appear to make peace, for sure it is only a stalling tactic, They are hell bent on Israel's destruction.

Benjamin Netanyahu

It's 1938 and Iran is Germany and it's racing to arm itself with atomic arms.

I too miss Bibi.

I probably shouldn't say this, but the best thing Ol'merde could do for Israel is to get killed by Hamas.
That would trigger the appropriate retaliation (preferably on the entire ham-ass "government") and make room for someone who can be a true leader for Israel.

I saw some talking head amateur analysis about this. In the eyes of the MSM, Olmert is being criticized for "rushing to war without a detailed plan."

Of course, Olmert had a plan, and Israel had been waiting to execute this operation for some time--Operation "Get those Damned Rockets off our Border", if you will. Olmert lost his nerve and failed to execute a fine plan. He was not warlike enough.

The MSM doesn't know the words to that tune, so they substitute verses from their own anthem--"He rushed to war without a detailed plan." They actually think that he was too warlike!

If not for Talk Radio and the Blogosphere, we would all be clueless.

Next time don't listen to George Bush and his beloved UN Security Council.

I'm sorry, Charles, were you talking about Israel or USA?

#3 song_and_dance_man

I'm with you, but much like the Billaries on Inauguraton Day 1997, when they had to be dragged out kicking and screaming, from the White House, Olmert,the thug, and his gangster buddies, will not leave, unless forced to.

When an L³ like Yossi Sarid writes this in the very ultra-lefty Ha'Aretz, it really is amazing:Throw them out

Olmert is Israel's Bush.

Islam is a Religion of Peace
Dubai Ports
Staunch Allies Pakistan and Saudi Arabia
Ordinary mom's & dads
etc.
etc.
etc.

Olmert,
So the July, '06 war was a "learning experience"? Israel can't afford much more of your education.

Please do the honorable thing and resign.

Ditto #28!

Colin Powell had it right. When you go to war you do so with overwhelming strength and seek to destroy the enemy as quickly and thoroughly as possible. The notion of "disproportional response" which the media shouted over and over again is so appallingly stupid it beggars belief. When you decide it's time to fight you go all the way. Fighting a man with a knife with a gun makes sense. Fighting a man with a kinfe with a knife when you have a gun because otherwise it might appear disproprtional is obscene.

Skippy's not thrilled.

How did Ol' Merde get elected?

Oh yeah, I remember, Ariel Sharon rushed out and formed a political party in order to keep himself in power, and then his brain took a powder.

People voted for Ol' Merde because they thought they were voting for Sharon.

Sharon in his current state has more working brain cells than Ol' Merde.

#28 descolada9 4/30/2007 6:58:36 pm PDT

I'm sorry, Charles, were you talking about Israel or USA?

There isn't much difference.

Hezb'allah mass murdered 241 US Marines decades ago and we still haven't fired bullet Number One at them.

Plus, after Israel cut off every possible avenue of retreat last summer, we pressured Israel to stop before the Hezb'allah was defeated--and Olmert didn't have the courage to stand up to it.

At first, I thought the Bush admin was simply joking when they referred to a "peace process" with the Palestinians. But now I know they really believe this stupidity.

olmert GAY AVACK MIT DIEN CHOMAS ALTAZOMIN

33 bucephalas

Okay. I rescind another "fuck you." If you don't watch it, I might even wind up liking you.

I have no intention of

are words often said before they do. Hopefully it will be true in this case too.

#21 grumpy old codger

Your testosterone shot is ready and maybe that will make a mensch out of you!

In Olmert's case? Gornisht Helfen (nothing helps).

I'm grateful that the US supports Israel. But if the Winograd report were honest it would put the blame equally on the Bush admin for saving Hezb'allah and Olmert for caving into the joint US-UN terrorist appeasement plan.

THIS SUMMER!

#28 descolada9

I'm sorry, Charles, were you talking about Israel or USA?

Pretty sure he was talking about both.

OT -- anyone been hearing about the French election coming up? They are calling Sarkozy a french George Bush (probably meaning the OLD Bush who had balls).

Frankly, never really cared about the French, but this election seems worth following. Could get interesting if the fwench electorate turn out to have grown a pair. (but it'll probably turn out like the Phillies always do...look good for a while and then tank)

#33 bucephalas

When you go to war you do so with overwhelming strength

If you can. Rumsfeld was also right:

As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want.

"If you’re going to commit your nation to a war, do it all the way, no half measures."

If you agree, read Just War Theory vs. American Self-Defense by Yaron Brook and Alex Epstein

and John Lewis's “No Substitute for Victory”
The Defeat of Islamic Totalitarianism

Don’t stop until it’s truly finished, no matter what the “international community” says.

World Opinion Be Damned by Alex Epstein

What Real War Looks Like

45 Rancher 4/30/2007 7:07:43 pm PDT

If you can. Rumsfeld was also right:

As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want.

Rumsfeld was probably the best Secretary of Defense in US history.

But when push came to shove, Bush dumped him, which has only emboldened the useful idiots. (Though now he's really standing firm behind an irrelevant AG over a doubly irrelevant issue.)

Re #41 NY Nana

Oy Vey! We're screwed!

I'd go north of the Litani, I laid out a plan before the start of the last war. Involved troopships, airdrops and landing craft to south Beirut, sweeping south and east -- closing the border with Syria while headed to Litani with armor from the Israeli border. Maybe too ambitious for what force the IDF has, I'm not versant in troop strengths.

Hey, Mr. Olmert, if you start firing back shit at the Hezzies, finish the damn job next time and don't do it half-assed! Maybe our "leaders" will get a clue from your actions...

Maybe.

A Dill pickle. Clears the palate and the mind.

*salivate*

All that is taking place has been written by the prophets. All of this will come to pass and the LORD will avenge His people Israel when His time is right. I have no faith in Olmert or any other man. Still, it is my job to stand for the LORD and defend this country since it is the only true supporter of Israel. God have mercy on the U.S. if we ever stop supporting the Israelis.

Recently we went more weps free in Afghanistan, and already they are demonstrating about "civilian deaths" when we are killing Taliban like lemmings. Expect Adnan Hadj & Green Helmet guy in the Afghan theater soon.

I would vote for Benyamin Netanyahu a true Jewish Leader, loyal and tough with enemies. Olmert to weak, corrupt, and disloyal preick

#43 MandyManners

Translation:

The Nasralla Song
C'MON YO NASRALLA

You look like a hippopotamus
you have the brains of a bird
you may as well stay in your hole
soon you're gonna die

You are simply a complete fool
with a severe megalomania
you are the devil, or in short
you are the scum of mankind

Even if you'll launch rockets at us
or threaten the Galilee with
your friends from Syria and Iran
even if you'll drop here more katyushas
know that there's no despair here
together we will overcome the trouble
C'mon yo Nasralla
we'll screw you inshallah
we will send you back to allah
with all of the Hezbollah
C'mon yo Nasralla
go away you garbage
it's already been sentenced from above
that this is your end

You are pathethic, you are small
and you resemble an orangutan
you have lice on your beard
and soon you'll fly out of here

You are a dead coackroach, you're a skunk
you're running out of breath
the IDF is asking for you
to burn you up in fire

Even if you'l launch...

C'mon yo Nasralla...

So listen well you pathetic Hezballonchik
and be ready because soon all the IDF
with the Apachees, the F16's, the Battleships,
the missiles and the tanks, the Commando,
the Paratroopers, Golani, Giv'ati,
each and every one of them is coming to visit you!
so take a few deep breaths
and enjoy them...
because they are your last ones
you dog

C'mon yo Nasralla..


For your fun, to sing along, I will attempt to write you a transliteration of only the chorus:

Yallah ya Nasrallah C'mon Nasrallah
Needfoke otcha enshallah We're going to knock you, enshallah (G-d willing)
Nachzeer otcha l'allah We'll return you to 'Allah' (G-d)
eem kol haHizbullah With all the Hizbullah

Yallah ya Nasrallah C'mon Nasrallah
tee-lech m'po ya-zvallah Get out of here you garbage
Nigzar k'var m'li-mallah It's already decreed from above
Sheh zeh ha sof shelcha That this is your end

No link...sorry!

Completely off topic -- I was about to pimp Pennies for Peace to build schools in Afghanistan / Pakistan on my blog until I saw this in their lesson plans:

Find a recipe from the reference books and let the students help cook a native dish so that they can have a sensorial experience of Pakistan and Afghanistan.
�� Invite the students to spend a day during the study section to wear a shalwaar and kameez, or a burqa. Ask them to explain their experience if wearing it.

#42 ibrodsky 4/30/2007 7:06:52 pm PDT

I'm grateful that the US supports Israel. But if the Winograd report were honest it would put the blame equally on the Bush admin for saving Hezb'allah and Olmert for caving into the joint US-UN terrorist appeasement plan.

Olmert was given nearly one month by the Bush administration to do what was needed. What other President would have done that? I put the blame completely on Olmert.

9 more.

SYDNEY, Australia: Nine men who allegedly stockpiled bomb-making chemicals and vowed to avenge perceived injustices toward Muslims were ordered to stand trial for Australia's largest terrorist conspiracy, court officials said Tuesday.

[Link: www.iht.com...]

Why doesn't the Knesset take a "vote of no
confidence" in the Olmert "government"?

After all, isn't his approval rating at
something like 14% or even less?

Thankfully, our Lord is looking after Israel,
since it seems that the current leadership
over there is not.

One thing neither the US nor Israel understands about the enemy:

When you go to war with them, you have to threaten to utterly destroy them, to vaporize what little they value, and recycle their sacred texts as toilet paper. Then you have to demonstrate that you have the ability to do it, but hesitate only to save the ammo, and that the next move is up to them, and if they choose total annihilation it's all the same to you.

#48 grumpy old codger

Oy Vey! We're screwed!

And even worse? So is Israel at what is a terrible point in history. One tiny homeland..where is Golda Meier zt"l when we need her? She had more balls than all of the Israeli leadership in about 10 years, at least.

Olmert is a putz.

Olmert sucks bad.

Netanyahu cannot be trusted but he may be the best of a bad lot.

Wye, Hebron, etc.

Netanyahu speaks well but…

For some reason the "X Diggs" link on all LGF posts is coming up 404. For example I see "2 Diggs" on this article, which links to [Link: digg.com...]
and that comes up 404 (With a missing error document).

While I'm at it, the "Digg It" button linking to [Link: digg.com...] also comes up 404.

#61 song_and_dance_man

Yes there are moonbats among every people and heritage. And within any nations political machine one will find ninnies in thugs clothes.

All we have to do is look to the dhummies and the present candidates they regurgitate since Carter, who was, IMHO, the worst in my life..

Thanos

we are killing Taliban like lemmings

It HAS been great hasn't it? Like fish in a bowl! I wonder...where IS that Spring offensive? :smirk:

Mark my words. You will be disappointed in Bibi.

But there is no one better.

I don't know much about olmert so not much I can say except I don't understand how they seem to get their people stolen and used as pawns by the barbarians. I was sad when they stopped bombing when their two soldiers were taken and the world screamed how unfair Israel was being...and lookie here, the soldiers are still in captivity!

I tend to like Netanyahu whenever I hear him speak. The one thing he said that shocked me though is that he wanted to see the Iranian president brought up in a WORLD COURT. I was hoping that was a joke or something because we do not want a world court. Hopefully he just said it off the cuff but he has to realize, if a world court was ever put forth, the usa and israel could kiss any fairness good bye. Anotherwords, bibi, don't make the noose to hand to the people who wish to use it against you later :P .

57 sabra412 4/30/2007 7:22:27 pm PDT

Olmert was given nearly one month by the Bush administration to do what was needed. What other President would have done that? I put the blame completely on Olmert.

I get it. If Israel doesn't crush Hazb'allah that has been arming and training and digging in for 25 years in one frickin' month, then pull the plug.

It took years for dozens of countries to defeat Nazi Germany.

But if Israel, which has only one real ally, doesn't win in 30 days, it's their fault.

I blame the Bush admin first. Olmert is incompetent, but the initial war plan was working, and his biggest mistake was giving into George "UN Security Council" Bush and Condi "I'll talk to Iran" Rice.

History has shown that nuking one's enemy has a 100% chance of producing a friend within a generation.

IBrodski

Next time don't listen to George Bush and his beloved UN Security Council.

Don't you understand that this time Olmert and Tsipa begged for UN resolution? Never in the history of Israel they were given so much time and opportunity to win. Olmert himself said that the main goal of this war was to facilitate ethnic cleansing in Judea and Samaria as had been done in Gaza.
Do you really think that if there were no resolution Olmert/Tsipa/Peretz/Halutz, all this corrupt remnants of criminal Sharon would win?

Olmert was elected AFTER pogrom in Amona. Was it Bush fault? Get real. There are a lot of things Bush may be blamed for, but not for the fact that Jews elected this corrupted junk and still keep them in office.

Russians are not afraid to demonstrate against Putin, but Jews are sitting at home when this criminal gang destroys the country.

I have always felt respect (and often admiration) for all of Israel's heads of State. I have no respect, let alone admiration, for Olmert.

56 Thanos 4/30/2007 7:21:25 pm PDT

Completely off topic -- I was about to pimp Pennies for Peace to build schools in Afghanistan / Pakistan on my blog until I saw this in their lesson plans:

Schools doing what schools do best...brainwashing and indoctrination of typically what the current society's goals are.

I just want to scream and tell them..can't you just simply teach the basics?

#69 ibrodsky

With respect, don't you think that Bush gave them carte blanc (sp?) in the beginning of the conflict?

It was only because Olmert et al wimped out that Bush and Rice ultimately did what they did.

All Olmert had to do was go in with a ground war. The public was on side. The reservists were ready to go. There was unity.

Don't blame Bush and Rice for Olmert's decisions. It goes way beyond incompetence.

#47 ibrodsky

Getting rid of Rumsfeld may or may not have been the best course. Bush might have hung on to him too long. I believed in his modernization of the US Armed Forces by focusing on a more combined arms lightning approach. His insistence on a “light footprint” in the occupation of Iraq may or may not have been correct. I’m not going to Monday morning quarterback Rummy, I liked him for no more reason than he would spit in the MSM’s eye for asking a dumb question. History will tell. Unless we loose, history is written by the winners.

Rancher
Agreed about France. I see headlines like "Sarkozy struggles to maintain momentum", and wonder why the MSM won't say "Royale can't generate majority". If the tables were turned, you know it would be reported that way.

Anyway, This is going to have far-reaching consequences. France is either going to turn right or hard left. Either way, things are going to change.

France is the national power which, as part of the UN deployment, keeps warning Israel about countering clear threats to its survival. Imagine if Sarkozy's France decides once and for all that Israel has a right to exist. Imagine if Royale's decides it doesn't.

What is good about this commission, they finally openly said that the blame of Hisb'Allah becoming so strong was caused by Barak's/Clinton's ran from Lebanon and by the fact that Sharon ignored Hizb'Allah.

ibrodsky
I get it. If Israel doesn't crush Hazb'allah that has been arming and training and digging in for 25 years in one frickin' month, then pull the plug.

I'm with you. I would have liked to see more support from Bush.

55 NY Nana

THANK YOU! I can see the translation on the screen but, it's hard to memorize that way.

Olmert is toast--he lost the confidence of the majority of Jews everywhere--his statements before the war about "Israel being tired of winning" and during the War with Hisbullah discussing "the removal of Jews from Samaria and Judea to complete the unilateral withdrawal" while missiles rained on Northern Israel without mass evacuations and definitive retaliatory groung assault---reveal gross incompetence in his leadership--his appointing Peretz a left wing apologist to the defence portfolio without the slightest experience in the military--and finally the Palestinians now blame his ineptitude for Israel being a poor partner in peace--Its time to change leadership and pulverize these Terrorist Swine into oblivion!

#72 Frank_Mtl

Did you respect Rabin and Peres when they signed the Oslo Accords? Did you respect Netanyahu for the Wye Plantation Agreement and giving away Hebron? Did you respect Barak for taking Israel out of Lebanon allowing Hezbollah to flourish and for offering half of Jerusalem to Arafat?

#78 Sabra412

Bush gave plenty of political support. Sharon did bolder things in cases where Bush was calling for caution.

#81 luzbone

#72 Frank_Mtl
... for all most of Israel's heads of State.

This is what I had meant to say.

#63 luzbone

Stop blaming Netanyahu for Hebron please. It was Peres who signed agreement to give up all Hebron and it was a threat of sanctions against Israel if Netanyahu completely ignored something signed by the previous government. If Netanyahu were so weak, Clinton would not send his team to campaign against Netanyahu and for Barak, whom he easily forced to run from Lebanon and to give up all Judea, Samaria, and Gaza, including even Jerusalem. If not for Arafat, who wanted to get everything fighting, not as handout (Arabs' pride, you know), Clinton would have his way and Israel would not exist by now.

OT : Harry Heads to Iraq with an AQ bounty on his head.

A commission set up by an act of Parliment. Wow! Can you imagine any of Israel's neighbours conducting any sort of self-analysis publicly and Tzipi Livni, I'm surprised you were silent when you appeared to support Olmert's strategy all the way.

May I suggest Benyamin Netanyahu as Prime Minister and Foreign Minister, Rafi Eitan for Defence and Morshe Yaalon as IDF chief.

This trio will fix the real-estate issue once and for all.

#84 FinallyHere

Point taken.

But I don't trust Bibi. I just trust him more than anyone else.

Actually I am a Sharansky fan. But I don't know how he would do and what political strength he would have. As far as I am concerned he is the most intelligent and honourable man in Israeli politics.

Lebanon, and abandoning it is the same thing that we did in Afghanistan. I remember listening to NPR about the advance of the "warlords" on Kabul and thinking it didn't matter much way back then.

#87

More than anybody else is enough. If we look for ideal we will have Olmert.
We can be angry with Bush, but we had choice between Bush and Gore and then Bush and Kerry.

So I would still vote for Bush in both cases.

#91 FinallyHere

Agreed.

And the earlier comment by someone comparing Olmert to Bush was an insult to Bush.

#88
Sharansky is an intelligent guy, but without any experience. He graduated from Russian equivalent of MIT, and then from Russian Gulag, so he can be a Minister of Science and Culture in Netanyahu's Government.
Olmert has an Arab without high school diploma at that post, not that Jew without high school diploma as Defense Minister is much better.

Get out of BiBi's house.

#93 FinallyHere

Sharansky would be a great leader in a parallel universe.

The bottom line here is that pussy-footing, on the part of any Western leader regarding the ME will end up in humiliation and possibly defeat. Seems we've reached an historical crossroad, here. Put up, or be shut up by thine enemy. The choice is obvious. To many, but not enough...

The West seems to have forgotten the first rule of war.

Don't get into one if you don't think you are going to win it.

Then:-

If you are at war... fight with ALL of your resources and win it decisively and completely. If you own nukes and they allow an advantage use them. Leave nothing off the table and let your enemy know this!

Don't stop until the enemy cries 'uncle' and completely surrenders. If only a part of the enemy forces wants to stop then capture them, isolate them and reinforce success with the rest until the ALL cry uncle.

In assymetric warfare learn the rules of that form of warfare and use your superior technology both information and operational to kill the enemy whenever he pokes his head up. Don't attempt to capture him unless you want to interrogate or turn them around as your agents. Make those sheltering the assymetric enemy equally liable and destroy them as well along with the operational enemy. (pretty soon this will result in a aversion to harbout operational fighters). Make examples of anyone who crosses you in an assymetric battle. (Saudi and Pakistan please take note)

When you win be overwellmingly magnamous and be ready to pour in resources to ensur that one does not have to fight the assymetric battle all over again with the next generation.

WIN THE BATTLE OF THE IDEAS and the rest will all come out in the wash!

#97

how many people you know agree with you?

#97 Aussie

Great post, but may I indulge in issuing one of those "there, fixed that for ya" things?

WIN THE BATTLE OF THE IDEAS the will to survive and the rest will all come out in the wash!

I forget, how many soldiers are Hezbollah and Hamas still holding of Israels ?

yeah, right - at least three still

and do they fear Israel ?

do any of the radical moo slum states fear the US with our great nuclear arsenal ?

nope, not a one

it's time we used the nuclear arsenal as a deterrent

and to deter you have to use or at least appear willing to use weapons at your disposal

I want my Bibi back Bibi back Bibi back

Olmert is Israel's Bush.

agree and agree

together, Olmert and Bush have reduced Israel to an afterthought in Mid East politics...in exchange for nothing

#79 MandyManner

I can see the translation on the screen but, it's hard to memorize that way.

That is why I was so glad to find it...and once I play the video (notice how YouTube requires parental permission and a note from your teacher to watch it? There was another one, but they took it down. The lyrics are there ,also, but not as complete.) It is so catchy, and now that I watched the video, I can't get it out of my head!

It is also on Google video with no attempt at censorship. I guess since Google owns YouTube, they play good cop/bad cop.

Here is another one by the Frishman Brothers and the Pioneers, the ones who did the original. IIRC, they are a group in Israel. (I can't translete it from Hebrew, but it speaks for itself...hilarious!)

Enjoy!

#97 Aussie Infidel

I don't see how the US can "win" this war in Iraq. If they were fighting Iraq to conquer it then it would all be over. But they are fighting to try to assist in creating a democracy in Iraq. This is not like the old model of what a war is. And if they succeed in creating what they set out to create they may find that they have created a monster.

I think it would be interesting if both the US and Israel were more ruthless in their manner of fighting an asymmetric war certainly things would be a lot different.

Are there historical precedents for this type of war?

Aaaargh! PIMF: MandyManners. Sorry!

#92 luzbone

And the earlier comment by someone comparing Olmert to Bush was an insult to Bush.

Damn right. I am furious. Olmert is a thug, involved in more crap, as is his wife and 2 no-good kids, much like Sharon and his sons...Olmert is not fit to lick the President's boots.

#101 Durendal

Do not blame Olmert that much. He ran on the promise of ethnic cleansing in Judea and Samaria. He proved BEFORE the election by pogrom in Amona, that he could do it. Everybody knew that his only experience was to buy houses for half price and to sell for double market price and pay the difference with tax money. Blame Sharon who was the first to ethinically cleanse Jews after WW2, who ran on the promise not to give the smallest town in Gaza and was the first in history to cleanse even dead Jews. And Olmert would never come to power if Sharon did not put him in that chair.
After 9/11 Sharon could finish Oslo experiment (started under Clinton and encouraged by Clinton) but he was too corrupt to think about anything else except how to stay out of jail.
And the last thing, it was Sharon, not Bush who first mentioned "Palestinian State" and "occupation". Of course, if you do not count Hillary.

Common, Olmert is nothing to talk about.

We have forgotten that Nagasaki and Hiroshima win wars. The fire bombing of Dresdin wins wars. Surgical strikes and inconsistent troops movements embolden an enemy. I do believe that Bibi would know how to win a war. I do believe he is the most likely to stand up to Israel's enemies. Problem is, will the US and the West support this endeavor? This will sway the next Israeli PM no matter what we want to believe. I believe that the west will not support Israel appropriately. After all, peace in Israel would bring world peace.

The west needs to reign in its schizo response to Muslim terror. I still think there is a certain "cold war" mentality between the east and west that is just making the Muslim terrorists giggle. Non Muslim nations play politics with the GWOT while or enemy doesn't. I still think it funny (or not) that the US will criticize the Russian war with Chechnya while the Russians will criticize the US in Iraq and Iran. Keep fiddling kids.

I have never seen an LGF entry so wrong as this one.

Olmert & Co. are ultra-corrupt, appeasing dhimmis, more to the left than the Rabin's Labor Party was at the onset of the Oslo Accords.

Everything they do is for fun and profit and everything they touch here in the land of Israel turns to lead.

G-d have pity on us.

The lessons are clear.

If you’re going to commit your nation to a war, do it all the way, no half measures.

Tell the truth about the enemy.

Don’t stop until it’s truly finished, no matter what the “international community says”

And under no circumstances listen to Condoleezza Rice. Even better, do not let her in the your country.

I agree completely. It is shocking that the Israelis elected Olmert and that Olmert appointed that idiot Peretz as Defense Minister. And Olmert picked Halutz as well. Leaders are certainly in short supply. But your sentiments are right on the money. Weakness, timidity and half measures in the face of a merciless enemy never buys peace. Further, asymmetric war requires different rules of engagement.

Memo to Israel, America and the remnants of the rest of the Western world:

When you elect idiot, leftist appeasers, you get what you voted for. It's just that simple.

111 sandrine

No, no, it was Sharon (or his son) who picked Halutz, and Olmert,and Tzipi, and the rest of the Kadima criminals.
And who spent 6 years after retreat from Lebanon ignoring Hizb'Allah, but spent two years or so to prepare IDF for ethnic cleansing of Jews.
It was Sharon, who released hundreds of terrorists for three dead bodies and one alive drugdealer. It was Sharon who lied to electorat. IT was Sharon who divided Israeli Jews when he convinced people living within 1949 Armstice lines, that their main enemies not Arab terrorists, but Jews living in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza. Give the credit where it belongs please.

Getting back to the core lesson, you dont take initiative in war unless you intend to bring every resource you have, if necessary, to create the outcome of destroying your enemy's will to fight.

To do otherwise - to venture into war with faint intent and foggy objectives is to invite protracted disaster.

If the intent is to root out terror and its infrastructure and its state sponsors, then you had better be willing to follow the arms of the octopus over any border and through any holy site.

It is a battle of will, and the left in both Israel and the US have insisted on a "moral restraint" on warmaking that has simply protracted the course of events, making them more violent, more bloody, more expansive, andd WILL make them vastly more savage as a result.

The ultimate choice will be between freedom and slavery, and only when that choice is finally made clear and the consequences of loss made immediate will the west do what it must to prevail. At that point, victory will require the massive slaughter of vast civilian populations in order to impose will. Savagery we are unwilling to contemplate, yet a savagery that WW2 veterans knew very well.

Olmert and Bush both sought to short circuit events using warfare as a surgical instrument against an enemy that has no problem with killing the patient to make the doctor look bad.

#111 sandrine

Further, asymmetric war requires different rules of engagement.

To win, rules of engagement will have to be thrown out. We have very short leashes on both US forces and the IDF.

Why not remove them and only ask for results? Why not be as merciless?

If we are to give credit where credit is due, let's not forget to thank Barak for pulling out of Lebanon and allowing the UN to "defend" the border. Fortunately, Olmert saw what a great job they did so after arbitrarily deciding to call it quits in Lebanon last summer, he asked them back to provide more security and to prevent Hizballah from rearming with Syrian and Iranian arms coming in over the Syrian border. Thank G-d Pelosi and Waxman went to Assad to work out these differences.

It really makes you wonder don't it-can people actually be that stupid and survive well into adulthood without constant monitoring?

I still think Sharon had one last counter-attack in mind. When he had a mind...

[Warrior - an autobiography by Ariel Sharon 1989 Simon & Schuster]

Olmert the Uncommitted is a fool at best, a threat to the survival of half of the remaining Jews on the planet at worst.

I also think that Benjamin Netanyahu is the best, and maybe the only man or woman alive, for the second hardest job on the planet.

[A Place Among the Nations - by Benjamin Netanyahu 1993 Bantam]

PICK UP
THE FLAG,
R

Olmert won't resign? That's fine. He should be forced out.

4 Paint-rain

Someone on the radio today mentioned Sharansky. Got an opinion?

Anyone that can make this statement;

Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the future?
Sharansky: I am optimistic...Israel is very strong, much stronger than people think. It has a very strong economy, it has a strong democracy and, as this war showed, it has a very strong spirit...The wildest part of my optimism is that I do believe that Palestinians want and can and should and would live in a free society.

is FUCKING CRAZY

oh and btw, Sharansky made that statement yesterday

#118 Render

I still think Sharon had one last counter-attack in mind. When he had a mind...

When did he have mind? When he put Olmert as his Deputy? When he fired Yaalon and put Halutz as Chief of Staff? When he removed dead Jews from their graves? When he spent valuable resource on training IDF to deport Jews and destroy Jewish towns? When he allowed Egypt to protect border between Gaza and Sinai? When he released terrorists for dead bodies and drugdealer? When he ignored Hisb'Allah getting rockets?
When do you think he lost his mind?

I'm waiting for the only REAL opinion that matters...

Rayra.

The rest of us just have no clue what we're talking about...

...not when sharon ordered Gaza Judenrein...

...not when we warned about VoldOlmert the day he sent troops into Sde Boaz to use tear gas for the first time on Jews in Israel by supposed Jews...

...not when a few weeks later VoldOlmert ordered the Pogrom in Amona...

Hate to say "I told you so"...

Actually, no, I don't.

#121
Was it Sharansky who convinced Bush that Democracy can resolve any problems? Our founding fathers were smarter. That is why we have Republic, not Democracy. And not Gore as a President.

The Winograd report faults the Israeli policy of "containment" in the North, a policy that long predated Olmert. "Containment" meant not "over-reacting" to provocations by Hizb'Allah. This allowed Hizb'Allah to thrive.

Olmert has pursued the exact same policy in Gaza following the "disengagement." The U.S. is hardly innocent, though; Bush empowered the terrorists in Gaza by putting extreme pressure on Sharon to abandon the Philadelphi corridor.

Occupation doesn't work, and neither does abandoning control over one's borders. The conduct of the Palestinian Arabs shows that Israel must remedy the mistake it made in Camp David, where it allowed Egypt to divest itself of Gaza. The Arabs must rule their own. Blow up the border between Egypt and Gaza. If Egypt wants to take over Gaza, let it. If it doesn't, then push the Gazans into Egypt and then seal the border.

Once that is accomplished, Israel can turn to remedying the parallel mistake that it made in its other peace treaty, which was to absolve Jordan of responsibility for the Arabs of Judea and Samaria.

#107 FinallyHere

ok agreed that Olmert doesn't get credit for breaking Israel, but he made it glaringly obvious. he owes all to Sharon & others as you say. but it is Olmert who is still in office like a sick joke so i must focus on him for now.

Durendal

You are right.

122 FinallyHere 4/30/2007 9:51:02 pm PDT

When do you think he lost his mind?

Easy.

The day he listened to traitorous peres (who he was having breakfast with regularly)

Although I like the fact that Likud has finally gotten it's act together in regards to Anglos in Israel, and although I know and respect Ari Harow, who is leading the initiative, I do not trust Bibi, he sold us out with Wye and with Hevron.

Here is a Party worth voting for

And as always, the best way to affect change in Israeli politics is to move here.

If you need assistance in doing so, please contact one of the members of Herut, who I also happen to know. Tell him I sent ya.

#108 jayzee
#115 karmic_inquisitor

yes and yes

the ironic thing to me is that the US had the right idea going into Iraq with "Shock & Awe"...the only way to win a war is to break the will of the enemy with overwhelming force. but "Shock & Awe" was a mockery of its own name only surpassed by the impotence that followed in immediately passing off the mgmt of Iraq back to the corrupt Iraqi scum. now the soldiers have to respect the tribal customs of Iraq and other such BS...but the tribal (Islamic) customs are the problem. sadly, the BusHitler crowd is wrong that the US is an imperial power - hasn't been for ~100 years. if we were we might have a shot in Iraq, or allies in Europe, Japan, Korea, and S America

the West is stuck in a quagmire of multi-culti PC impotence. not even the supposed warmonger Bush has been willing to wage total war against our enemies. if we didn't get it on 9/11 we may be finished...next time there may be no hitting back.

i read somewhere that massive protests of Olmert & co were scheduled for this week...hope this leads to some action before the Iranians launch Summer War pt 2

#130 Durendal

i should have added...the will of these enemies is controlled remotely from their seats of power in Saudi and elsewhere

#11

"yes, i like Bibi also, i was just wondering what others' opinoins of other person are. Any others like Bibi?"

Bibi is gorgeous. Many women dream of having his love child. He is eloquent, articulate, and smart, so he presents Israel's case to an unsympathetic world quite well, and we need that right now. He can be tough when he wants to be. He is a very experienced politician.

But he gave away Hebron.

Forgot the most important thing: many credit Israel's economic recovery entirely to Bibi. He was apparently a fantastic Finance Minister.

#59 pragmatist

Olmert's approval rating is 3%.

I would vote for Bibi because he is the best candidate we have who is capable of winning, but there are others coming up from behind in Likkud, like Moshe Feiglin, who is much more to the right than Bibi. The problem is, he is religious, and most of Israeli society is averse to religious leaders. I don't know that Sharansky is interested in running for Prime Minister.

I continue to be very disturbed by Bibi's relinquishing Hebron and I feel he is really not the panacea that we all wish him to be. UNLESS, he has learned from that and has resolved to never do something like that again. Hard to say. Something happens to their brains when they get into office that causes them to waffle. Why did Sharon withdraw from Gaza? Turned out to be not a smart idea, and no one expected that sort of thing from Sharon. I guess I worry that Bibi could shock us in the same way.

Some of you may not know about Olmert's family. His wife is a moonbat of the highest order, active in a group that relentlessly harasses checkpoint guards to make sure they are being nice to the Palestinians. His youngest daughter is a moonbat who can often be seen at anti-Israel rallies. He has three other children and at least two, maybe three of them, all live OUTSIDE ISRAEL (I think one is in France, where he belongs). How he managed to get so close to Sharon is beyond me. People say Kadima only won votes because of sympathy for Sharon who lay comatose.

I never supported the disengagement from Gaza but I trusted Sharon so much that I admit I soothed myself by saying "he must have a trick up his sleeve, a trick that will be really, really good." People were speculating that he moved the Jews out of Gaza so that he could more easily bomb the Palestinians in the area and thus resolve that conflict. Well, any of us who entertained that wild imagining were pretty stupid, I guess. And now we will never know if Sharon truly had another trick up his sleeve but was unable to play it because he had a stroke.

To the point that Bibi had no choice but to relinquish Hebron because he had to honor a previous agreement -- who will disagree with that? I don't know enough to argue. I just don't want to believe that there was no way we could have held onto Hebron.

From what I have seen and heard, I think Sharansky along with other thinkers at Shalem Center, JCPA, IDC etc are constructing a solid platform of ideas and positions for Bibi and those who stand with him. The big questions of course are HOW to send the present clowns out of office, out of power, out of sight and WHEN it will happen. It is difficult not to fear that the dangerously evident weakness of Olmert & Co will not embolden the enemy to take action while they are still in place.

Bibi has a blog!

[Link: www.netanyahu.org.il...]

My 'two (long) bits' as an Israeli.

This morning I did a quick opinion poll (3 people) in response to a discussion on television. The question, "Who has the credibility to bring a huge crowd to demand Olmert's resignation and/or new elections?" The answer, probably no one. Ex President Navon could do it, I suppose. No politician, no military man, maybe an entertainer or writer. Think George Clooney or Gore Vidal and be very, very, very depressed.

Olmert is not an evil man, nor stupid. He may be corrupt but that puts him into a very a large club. What he is, is a politician and a lawyer in the worse meaning of those words. A pragmatist not an idealist or ideologue. A 'suit' to dot the 'i's' after the real powers have agreed in principal.

IMHO Sharon picked him as deputy for precisely those reasons. He was a useful man, without enemies who would never be a threat. Then, one month before the election Sharon has a stroke. The leading lights of Kadima who mostly have nothing in common other than a desire for advancement, had a difficult choice. Fight out primaries with the real chance of destroying the Party and delaying the campaign or stick with Olmert, the least divisive, option on short notice.

I'm amazes at how many LGF readers are Netanyahu fans. He is not nearly as popular in Israel. The Peter Principle may be at work. He was an extraordinarily successful ambassador; seemed OK as Foreign Minister; a controversial but arguably competent Finance Minister and a bad Prime Minister and Party Leader.

He has no balls! After defeat against Barak he didn't stay to rally the Party and lead the opposition. Sharon did that. He could have tried to derail the withdrawal from Gaza at the risk to his position of minister but settled for a gesture and voted in favour. Others, such as Uzi Landau had the courage of their convictions and paid the price.

Like Olmert he may become Prime Minister by default at the head of a coalition containing everybody but incapable of reform.

As to Sharansky. I was a member of his Party and worked for his election. He might provide the intellectual framework for change but no longer has major credibility in Israel or much of a power base. The Russians gradually deserted him when it became obvious his ego was more important than their issues. (Giving up the Interior Ministry to Shas was a major blunder). I don't know what the Anglo community he picked up last time will do but I doubt they will go back.

I could go through the options but I think it enough to say their is no clear alternative leader to Olmert. If he is forced out it will be by his own Party and not the people of Israel.

Can you impeach in Israel?

#142 deegee

All the opinion polls show that Netanyahu would trounce Olmert if elections were held and that approximately three quarters of the Israeli public want Olmert to resign.

Barring any major shifts in the political arena Netanyahu, whatever his faults, is currently the one and only real alternative to Olmert, just as the Likud is the one and only real alternative to Kadima.

If he is forced out it will be by his own Party and not the people of Israel.

That's only because there is no mechanism for the "people" to oust Olmert before the elections, and all the Kadima MKs realize that if Olmert goes their political careers are over. Since Kadima has enough mandates to prevent early elections Olmert will be able to hold on to power until the end of this term.

IMO for the right this may be a good thing, because as long as Olmert is PM his approval ratings drop steadily and are fast approaching single digits, making him and his party unelectable in the future. Also, a weak and extremely unpopular Olmert will not be able to carry out any more unilateral retreats. It's a win-win situation for the right, if Olmert stays or if he goes.

Here's my 2 bits:

Thanos on education: One of the main benefits of education is encouraging children to see from alternative perspectives. So if you think the pennies program was good, check out whether they had the boys in burkas and the girls in sharwals. That would be worth a few pennies!

On Israeli politics: Here's My dream team; Prime Ministers Michael Lerner/ Moshe Feiglin
Finance Bibi Netanyahu
Foreign Ministry/Strategic Planning Natan Scharansky
Foreign Ministry/Public Communications Caroline Glick
Defense: Baruch Marzel
Education Minister: Who runs Chabad now?

What's this enthusiasm about Bibi?
This guy is just an opportunist, that sure talks loud but doesn't do much.

He supported the pullout from Gaza and... resigned the day before it started.
He bashed the Oslo agreements and signed Wye's.
He gave a handshake to Arafish, after he said he will never ever ever.

Ok he's a better choice than Olmert, but what kind of choice is that?
If only Sharon was still (politically) there... I miss him every day.

#145 homeinzion

Baruch Marzel for Defense Minister? Bwahahahhahaaa! I LOVE the way you think! It will never happen, though. Sigh. I wish it could.

I like your other choices as well, especially Glick and Chabad.

#145 homeinzion

Though I don't get the reference to Michael Lerner. Not the Tikkun guy? Explain the joke, cause I'm lost.

Shimra:
Yes, a Prime Minister can be impeached for criminal actions. Basic Law Government 2001

This doesn't apply to bad judgement, stupidity, arrogance or incompetence. I.e. Olmert can't be impeached for Lebanon but can be for crooked business dealings.

No Israeli Prime Minister has ever been impeached.

Biggest idiot ever. thursday everybody is welcome to protest in tel-aviv.
bring friends.
and a snack

#144 AW:

All the opinion polls show that Netanyahu would trounce Olmert if elections were held and that approximately three quarters of the Israeli public want Olmert to resign.

Opininion polls are noticeably inaccurate in Israel. Despite the campaign slogans and the impression given by opinion polls there is no one-on-one contest, at the moment, for Prime Minister. The leader of the party with the most seats in the Knesset is asked to form a government and becomes Prime Minister. This has always been a coalition and until Sharon/Olmert the party has either been the Likud or Labor.

Given Olmert' s unpopularity; the Lebanon War and the failure of Kadima to produce any policy on anything, a party led by Mickey Mouse could beat Kadima if elections were held today.

They are not being held, today!

Olmert dithered too much when it came time for the bombs to do the talking. He let Syria know his game plan ahead of time. He should have been more cunning and ruthless in Lebanon.

After the Ahi-Hanita Saar5 [corvette class] ship was hit with a modern Chinese/ C802 missile it was clear that Hezb'allah had acquired weapons which could tilt the battle in favor of them.

As I recall two C802 cruise missiles were launched at the Israeli warship with one striking it and the other hitting a freighter down range. The final report indicated that the missile that hit Ahi-Hanita warship did not detonate but splashed fuel all over the rear of the ship setting it on fire. If the C802 warhead had detonated the Israeli warship would have critically injured.

Worse, Hezb'allah has some modern anti-tank weapons capable of disabling some of Israel’s best tanks. Olmert was stunned and did not move fast enough to recover the momentum on the ground.

I hope Olmert has learned his lesson. Finish what was started.

Israel is a small country surrounded by larger ones – who want to wipe it off the map. It’s essential that Olmert bring his forces up a level where they can swiftly destroy their enemies (Israel can’t afford a long war).

The only good news from Israel that I have seen is a purchase of some 65 precision guided bombs from the USA. That’s a start Olmert need to much more fire power to stop Iran and its proxies from cause grievous damage to Israel.

I hope that Olmert is up to the task – or someone with more backbone takes his place.

I started paying attention to opinion polls when after Sharon announced plans to form a new centrist party the opinion polls gave this still-nameless party 40 seats and had Likud drop to 20. Everyone thought that those polls were BS, yet approximately a year later that is exactly what happened in the general elections.

There are fluctuations in opinion polls, but there are also permanent shifts in public opinion which do not disappear over time. It's obvious that the failure of Olmert's government in the second Lebanon war caused a seismic shift in the public opinion against Olmert and Kadima, and that is not something that will just go away before the next elections. Since there are no major party realignments on the horizon I think it's clear that in the next election we'll see a return to the Labor/Likud paradigm, with Likud on top.

Personally, I'll never vote for Netanyahu again because of his support for the disengagement. I'm sticking with Mafdal/Ihud leumi.

#98 Finally Here:
How many do i know? Well i'm glad you asked. most of my intel team for a start! Then there are the awake politicians even if they don't have the cagoolies to come out and say so! Thyen there are a whole bunch of smart folks who have worked it out from first principles! :)

#99 Cartman:
I guess you DO have to survive to win. Wasn't it patton who said..." You don't win by dying for your country. You win by making the poor SOB on the other side die for his!" Decide what 'Winning' means for you and then set about arranging the reality to make that happen. Be creative and cunning and use your superior intelligence weapons and most important successful culture to undermine the enemy until he has no option but to give up! I can think of several scenarios:
#1 Split Iraq into 3 (after all it was just a creation of a 1920s Brit mapmaker!)
#2 Support the Kurds in fighting with their kin in Iran, Syria and even Turkey (if it goes Islamist). Use the enemy of my enemy is my friend...(for now!)
#3 Be ruthless in a smart and covert way to get your way. Be creative and use all the levers available to an assymetric warrior.

#106 Song_and_dance_Man:

The ideas war is the KEY to all Assymetric warfare. Destroy the image and ideas of the enemy and his support will evaporate like mist on a hot summer's day. In assymetric warfare it's the ideas and the power of ideas that are the true combat multipliers! 90% of assymetric warfare is fought between the ears of the enemy. Undermine his belief in his system and culture and offer him a better alternativ and he'll be a LOT less efective. 10% of operational assymetric warfare is fought with terrible but intelligently directed violence. Kill for reasons that will effect how the enemy sees himself. make him feel without hope and lower his morale. THEN give him a way out... the one you choose for him and be magnamous when he takes that path.

#103 Luzbone:
Hiroshima was a ilitary demonstration. Dresden was a revenge attack to make up for the fire bombing of Coventry. In a war against a national state the aim is to destroy the state's means of war production. Amateure discuss tactics. Professionals discuss logistics!
In assymetric warfare the capital of the enemy is NOT industrial potential. It's IDEAS. One can attack and destroy ideas by proposing a BETTER idea and then ruthlessly arranging the situation so that the superior idea is the only option to death. Then those who choose death... inassymetric war make it serve the ends of the superior idea and never for vengence sake.

ilitary = military. But hey i know you all read typo! hehehe :)

"War is the application of force, and to that application of force there is no limit, say the philosophers of war" Victory at Sea, 1953, NBC Televison Network.
My, how much this country and the world have forgotten in the last fifty four years, especially in the area of what it takes to win a war.
People die in wars. There is no such thing as a kind war, a gentle war, a surgical war, a clean war. War is dirty, ugly, bloody, and brutal. The nastier, uglier, dirtier and bloodier you make it for the other side, the sooner you get it over. If most of the other side chooses to die, then so be it. Grant them their wish. The land the enemy used to occupy will flower again, will produce more life again.
Unfortunately one political party feels it is more important for people, especially its males, to have their hands plunged deeply into their front pockets searching for a source of self amusement.
If Harry Reid, San Fran Nan, and the rest of the current crop of Democrats had been running this country in December,1941, instead of FDR and his bunch, we would all be speaking either German or Japanese today.
There was a valid reason for them to be called the "greatest generation." I cringe at the thought of what this one will be called.

Aussie Infidel
Thank you. count me too.

#157 Finallyhere

Okeydoke. Pulls out the ledger.

458,326,234 plus one more.. makes 458,326,235.

Puts the ledger away for the night and heads for bed! G'night mate! :)

For those of you so inclined, proper citation should be more like this:
"Victory at Sea", "Two if by Sea", March 8,1953
NBC Television

Yes, Olmert is a putz and Gornisch Helfin (nothing helps). I agree Bibi, though smooth and a good speaker is not trustworthy.

Israel is at a cross roads, thems for sure. I'm just a lowly psychologist/social scientist, but even I could figure out last summer's war plan was a mess.

Bush, with all his faults, gave Olmert a FLIPPIN' MONTH and there was no decisive blow.

I felt sick to my stomach and believed Israel lost a deterrent edge. Not good.

Bottom line, what the heck is Peretz doing as Defense Minister. That was a disaster waiting to happen. Aside for being a Stalin look a like, and the socialist credentials to boot, he is WAY, WAY over his head.

They gave him defense to keep his union paws off of the Finance Ministry. Not a good way to run a government.

Israel suffers from what ails the US and many western democracies theses days, the UK, Germany, France; a split between the right and left, completely different ways to view th world.

In Israel's case it can be deadly.

OLMERT, GO HOME,

--Israeli citizen

The vain, incompetent, insolent, and cowardly non-entity of a Prime Minister must be shown the door along with his Stalin lookalike joke of a Defense Minister.

Half-measures availed us nothing.

You know, come to think about it, maybe Olmert and Co. is merely part of the international zionist/neocon conspiracy?
I mean they're so bad, it must just be a move by the elders of Zion to make Israel look like a chump. Then when the A Team comes in, everything will work out.
Well, I can hope.

Alkmyst #129:

Evocative as it may be of the old proto-Likud movement of Begin and Jabotinsky, today's Herut doesn't manage to attract any attention at all from the Israeli right, let alone take advantage of a nationwide resurgent nostalgia for Begin. It's a lone wolf party, featuring the hysterical Michael Kleiner (is this who was meant by "Michael Lerner" above?), not taken seriously by anyone other than the 2000 protest voters it managed to dredge up last election.

Far better bang for your buck, with roughly the same ideological bent, can be had backing one Moshe Feiglin, who, though religious, has been building up huge swaths of support even amongst the secular/traditional right and center. He placed third (third!) in the last Likud primaries, behind only Bibi and Silvan Shalom, and with internal support in the Likud going nowhere but up he is maybe two elections away from being its candidate for PM. He is rightly seen by Bibi as his biggest internal threat. He is humble, plain-spoken and super-clean,and more importantly he stands out from the rest of the field by being firmly anchored in Jewish traditional values. His basic thesis is that even the most right-wing candidate becomes a leftist once in office because he is deficient in traditional Jewish values and therefore lacks the wherewithal to assert our Jewish rights to Israel. Lincoln coined the phrase "Right makes might" and Feiglin is the only one out there today who both understands that and articulates that message.

Only by working within a major party like the Likud (in his words, "a party that aspires to lead the country") has he managed to get the level of support he has today - and only in this way will he be in a position to effect real political change in Israel - by leading; not by "influencing" through a small sectoral party like Mafdal/Ihud Leumi, or worse, by starting his own like Herut. He rightly recognized that the small parties really do not have any influence at all. Even when used to form coalitions, they can be discarded at a moment's notice and are owed nothing.

The only way to have any real influence is through a major party, and only by leading that party. Feiglin is prepared to do that. All the Netanyahu supporters here ought consider him very carefully.

Sorry for the double...

Charles, I still can't figure out whether the "lesson" in your post is aimed at America, and in praise of Olmert for providing an example worthy of emulation, or is the lesson aimed at Israel, and at Olmert in particular, in criticism of Olmert's failings?

I'm reading it both ways. Are you toying with the Lizardoid hordes on purpose?

Yackums

#97 Aussie Infidel

be ready to pour in resources to ensur that one does not have to fight the assymetric battle all over again with the next generation.

This, I cannot agree with.
The tough approach you advocate sounds great, but the scale of the arse kicking required worries me.
The West is at war with Islam and yet you never mention Islam once.
The entire Islamic world is behind Hezbollah.
The entire Ummah wants to see the destruction of Israel.
It's not just the "Palestinians" and Hezbollah with Iran's backing that Israel is up against.
And if Israel is destroyed then the rest of us in the West will be next.

What makes you think "pouring in resources" could tame Islam?
Over 800 billion spent in Iraq so far hasn't made a bit of difference so far as I can see.
Islam and freedom and democracy are completely incompatible.
There is no way that an Islamic country would respond as Japan and Germany did after WW2 to a "pouring in of resources", unless we are prepared to completely remove the influence of Islam in any conquered Islamic country, as we took steps to remove Nazism and Shinto as major political and ideological factors in Germany and Japan following WW2.
That is a huge and bloody undertaking, given the size of the Ummah.
With the Muslims it's "one in all in".
It would mean a world war.

You are applying old strategies with a few new twists regarding "assymmetric" warfare to a new type of conflict, at least a type of conflict new in our time.
Our ancestors knew all about Islam and jihad but the lessons have been forgotten by our generation, and even our ancestors never knew anything on the scale we now see before us.

Personally, I'd like to see a complete quarantine as far as possible with Islam throughout the West and let Islam kill itself off stewing in its own juices.
Israel should expel all Muslims, bulldoze a nice 50 mile wide exclusion zone and tell the Arabs and the rest of the world to go to hell.

#165 yackums

I saw Moshe Feiglin speak and while I can get behind him 100% ideologically, and while everything you said about him is true, he has no personality. He is not dynamic, and he was a terrible speaker. I heard him speak in English; maybe he is better in his native language? I don't know, but I remember thinking that he just seems too "dud like" and I wondered if he would every really make it to the top. Then again, I am new to Israeli politics and am carrying my old American habits around with me. An American candidate had better have some pizzaz or he can forget it. Is it different in Israel? I do think that Feiglin has made some very smart strategy decisions, staying in the Likkud party being one of them.

Bibi gave away Hevron.

To the argument that he had to do so because there was an agreement made by the previous administration: well, isn't there a principle that if the other side doesn't live up to its side of the deal, you're absolved from your obligations under that agreement? Can anyone seriously argue that the PaLISTIM kept their side of deal under OSLO et al?

Bibi had his chance, and he blew it.

I'd love to see Feiglin at the helm. (Yeah, and Glick in Foreign Ministry and Marzel in Defense Ministry! Heck, forget "Defense" Ministry -- let's call it the War Ministry. Best defense is a good offense!)

Alkmyst -- how come you haven't posted on your blog in months?

Israel's failure to employ incendiary devices, instead of just anti-personnel bombs, against Hezb'allah last summer cost the IDF ground forces many lives. Walls and bunker won't do you a whole lot of good when there is no air to breathe and it's 2000 oF.

Yackums -

I hear what you're saying about Feiglin - I am considering Likud with him at the helm, and honestly, I might even join Likud (My previous employer is one of the oldest members of the Merkaz) - I don't know that much about Kleiner - I do about Eli Yosef, and he is someone I would (and do) go out of my way to help, because he is a true Tzaddik.

MAOZ -

haven't been real active on the blog lately - been busy with work - starting an LTD takes up alot of time and energy, and it's been going (and growing) really fast - less than 3 months in business and my partner and I already have an employee... I'm still doing other stuff in the activism realm, just a little more of a supporting role as opposed to vocal - there are people much more personable and better suited to that than I.

Oh, plus I remembered that I need to go out on dates occasionally - all work and no play causes alot of lower back pain. :-)

#167 Mike_W
I can understand your reluctance to pour in mega bucks to some sandpit to ensure that it does not revert and one has to fight the assymetric war all over again a generation later.

If you will please look at the world from a non ethnicentric viewpoint.

For a start forget the idea that some miserable sandpit will ever become a democracy. Don't even go there. The job of the US is to ensure its national security NOT spread the delights of democratic debate far and wide. For many ethnic communities democracy is an athema. That's reality.

When i said pour in resources... do so in ways that will inimise the chances of having to face the same assymetric enemy all over again. In some cases the money might be used by an ethnic warlord to ethnically cleanse the opposition and thus render the geographic region mono-ethnic and stable.Aid money should NOT be spent from only a Western perspective. It should be spent in ares and for reasons that will render the result you want... that is the reduction or elimination of the original threat to one's nation state and people.

you commented...
"The tough approach you advocate sounds great, but the scale of the arse kicking required worries me."

In arab culture the spoils go to those who show determination, ruthlessness and magnamity. Read a book called... 'The Arab Mind'. It should be required reading for all who deal with the Middle East. All my intel guys are required to read it as are most Westpointers!

Your comment:

"The West is at war with Islam and yet you never mention Islam once. "

Apologies. I assumed that that was a given

"The entire Islamic world is behind Hezbollah.

Not true for local and reality based reasons. This is just the old enemy of my enemy is my friend... writ large ... "The entire Ummah wants to see the destruction of Israel."

"And if Israel is destroyed then the rest of us in the West will be next."

Just prior to that there will be 200 Israeli mushrooms blooming and the case of ..'who's next' will be moot!

'What makes you think "pouring in resources" could tame Islam?'

NOT tame... control, move in directions that you want, modify and allow apostates to survive and prosper.. that's enough.

'Over 800 billion spent in Iraq so far hasn't made a bit of difference so far as I can see. '

Not 100% correct. There have been significant improvements. It's just that you don't get to know about them because of the MSM and agendas.

"Islam and freedom and democracy are completely incompatible. "

I agree 100%. So change the conditions so that Islam and democracy can exist side by side and protect those who decide to go for the better life. Eventually islam will wither because the IDEA is inferior.

"You are applying old strategies with a few new twists regarding "assymmetric" warfare to a new type of conflict, at least a type of conflict new in our time."

Not so! Assymetric warfare needs you to understand the enemy completely and then play on his weaknesses and vulnerabilities and NOT treat him as a Western enemy who is rational.

have a good one mate!

One of my guys served in Lebanon as a Blue Hat. His roommate was Russian coloneland he told of how 3 Russians were kidnapped. The Russians didn't even try to rescue them or play the debating / propaganda game. The guys were executed.

The Rssians PAID in gold for reliable information. They identified the kidnappers. Killed them all and wrapped their headless tortured bodies in pigskin and then burned then in public. They then killed all immediate family members of the kidnappers, their extended families including cousins aunts and uncles and all of their immediate friends and supporters including their immam. This was done very quickly and only publicised locally in the immediate community. No media hooplah was indulged in.

Funny thing was that after that Russian UN blue hats could go anyplace and NOBODY ever hassled, shot at or tried to kidnap them!

Oh, yeah, and Bibi also left Pollard behind.

Wye, Wye, Wye?