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Worst Idea of the Year (So Far)

Mon, May 28, 2007 at 8:57:35 pm PDT

Prediction: nothing good will come of this.

The Bush administration is perilously close to jumping the tracks. I’ve supported the President through the long course of the war that began on September 11, but it’s starting to look like he’s simply getting tired; he won’t defend his administration against attacks, he won’t defend the country against illegal immigration, he won’t do anything to stop the media leaks that cripple our national security ... and now this: U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze.

BAGHDAD - The United States and Iran broke a 27-year diplomatic freeze Monday with a four-hour meeting about Iraqi security. The American envoy said there was broad policy agreement, but that Iran must stop arming and financing militants who are attacking U.S. and Iraqi forces.

Iranian Ambassador Hassan Kazemi Qomi told The Associated Press that the two sides would meet again in less than a month. U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker said Washington would decide only after the Iraqi government issued an invitation.

“We don’t have a formal invitation to respond to just yet, so it doesn’t make sense to respond to what we don’t have,” Crocker told reporters after the meeting.

The talks in the Green Zone offices of Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki were the first formal and scheduled meeting between Iranian and American government officials since the United States broke diplomatic relations with Tehran after the 1979 Islamic Revolution and the seizure of the U.S. Embassy.

An AP reporter who witnessed the opening of the session said Crocker and Kazemi shook hands. ...

Speaking later at a news conference in the Iranian Embassy, Kazemi said: “We don’t take the American accusations seriously.”

Crocker declined to detail what Kazemi had said in the session, but the Iranian diplomat — formerly a top official in the elite Revolutionary Guards Quds Force — said he had offered to train and equip the Iraqi army and police to create “a new military and security structure” for Iraq.

Kazemi said U.S. efforts to rebuild those forces were inadequate to handle the chaos in Iraq, for which he said Washington bore sole responsibility. He said he also offered to provide what assistance Iran could in rebuilding Iraq’s infrastructure, which he said had been “demolished by the American invaders.”

UPDATE at 5/31/07 9:29:24 am:

Taking a second look: Dollard: What No One’s Telling You About the US-Iran Talks.

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748 comments

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1 stevieray  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:01:20pm

But it's just talk....
Credibility with Iranian dissidents takes a hit.

2 ORD neighbor  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:01:28pm

Sic transit gloria mundi, eh? Jihadis still have the number for a surprising number of us... Hope it changes.

3 tblot  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:01:45pm

NEVER TRUST THEM

4 The Other Les  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:02:21pm

These idiots need to be turfed out of office.

5 The Other Les  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:02:44pm

Fourth!

6 Aussie Infidel  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:03:42pm

Lay down with dogs and get up with fleas!

Given Iran's past 'diplomacy' i'd give this a 1 out of 10 to get anywhere. Sounds as if it's an invitation to a talk shop whilst the Iranians continue doing just what they want. building the bomb and formenting an insurgency within Shia Iraq

7 cbinflux  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:04:01pm

Bush is more disappointing every day.

8 stuck in california  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:04:49pm

Just when Iran was about to go bankrupt we will now give them 10 trillion dollars to be good.

9 DesertSage  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:06:29pm
but the Iranian diplomat — formerly a top official in the elite Revolutionary Guards Quds Force — said he had offered to train and equip the Iraqi army and police to create “a new military and security structure” for Iraq.

Aren't they already doing that?
Isn't that why we're having so many problems?

10 Student of Objectivism[deleted]  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:06:34pm
11 MandyManners  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:07:07pm

Isn't this just another way to put the heat on Iran?

12 cbinflux  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:07:11pm

"New Order" - An Anti-American Short Movie on the Iranian Bushehr TV
Bushehr TV (Iran)

[Link: www.memritv.org...]

13 Insert Clever Name Here  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:07:58pm

I have thought about this quite a bit. I honestly believe that GWB is looking for another note in the history books. Not in a bad way, mind you. In a similar vein that Nixon opened up trade with China, GWB would like to be the President who REALLY DID SOMETHING about islamonaziism.

I (maybe still have on my rose coloured glasses, but) do think that he's got good, anti-islamofascist intentions here.

(I hope, anyway. *fingers crossed*)

14 NoLimit  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:08:59pm

Where is the man who said this on top of that mound of rubble:

I can hear you. The rest of the world can hear you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon.

He's been gone a long time. He seemingly had only 15 minutes.

15 Noam Sayin'  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:10:53pm

A decoy?

Wishful thinking here, but I have to imagine the cabinet meeting Crocker attends upon his return, and being stiff-armed the moment he opens his mouth with a kert reply, "We really don't give a shit what Kazemi said."

Or do I need another glass of wine shot of bourbon to get to sleep tonight?

16 ParanoidPyro  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:11:04pm

Sad day for diplomacy and rationality.

17 Frank_Mtl  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:11:21pm

Yeah... I thought that piece of news was depressing too...

18 Noam Sayin'  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:12:21pm

Oh, great.

Another troll.

19 NY Nana  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:12:45pm

How much of that money will be poured into uranium enrichment and ahmadinadinnerjacket's weaponry that no inspectors will be able to find? And what might end up directed in a nuclear bomb at Israel, the US..name it.

This makes me want to puke. President Bush seems to have just given up. Well, this rash act seems to make the immigration problem look somehow smaller..damn it. Was Condi involved? Pelousy?

Bet Condi was the biggest influence.

What next? Is there anyone with the balls to wake President Bush up from his trance?

20 theheat  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:13:58pm

I think the Bush administration would give it up and spead 'em for a candy bar these days. From blustering to pandering to outright stupid - they're every color of the freak rainbow.

However many million people in America, and this was the best anyone had to offer? There are probably smarter people in the local chapter of the Garden Club.

BDS runs both directions - those that hate and blame him for all the wrong reasons, and those that ingore the bumbling idiocy and defend the indefensible.

Carter may be (okay, is) an idiot, but it isn't an exclusive club.

21 astronmr20  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:14:36pm

Um.... Iranians training and equipping Iraqi Police?


Um... do I have to say "fox in the henhouse?"


Hopefully the American delegation did not entertain such an idea.

If this may actually happen, then yes, (gulp), Saddam might have been better.

22 psaturn  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:15:00pm

I agree with you Charles. I was thinking that if we reestablish diplomatic relations with Iran, that would be rewarding them for their nuclear enrichment/nuclear bomb plan...

Which is not a good basis to reestablish diplomatic relations.

23 stuck in california  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:15:02pm

#13 ICNH

No, I think a bunch of other stuff is going on that we do not know about. Give it some time and Bush will either be an idiot or a hero.

24 astronmr20  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:15:16pm

#20

I know some garden club members. Smart people, all of them.

25 Jimmy The Clam  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:15:46pm
The Bush administration is perilously close to jumping the tracks.


Getting CLOSE to jumping the tracks?
Other than Iraq and Afghanistan, I can't think of a conservative principle the Bush administration hasn't sold-out on in the most whorish fashion possible.
Bush may as well be cruising around in the Presidential limousine with a "Hillary 2008" bumper sticker.

26 cbinflux  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:15:50pm

Photoshop?

We may need Charles to rule on this...

27 astronmr20  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:17:02pm

Here's one for the American delegation to take to the Islamic Shithouse of Iran:


"Stop training and equipping insurgents, and we won't fuck you up."

28 andalus  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:17:16pm

Bush simply knows on which side his bread is oiled buttered.

29 shibumi  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:17:50pm

Is it possible that those in upper echelons of the U.S. government are de-evolving and consequently are stupider every single year they're in office? It would explain some of the recent political antics.

And can someone please explain to the State Department that lying to infidels in all situations has the official Koranic stamp of approval?

30 NY Nana  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:19:02pm

#26 cbinflux

Real. Absolutely..and Rosie looks too good. Rosie is so yesterday.

31 DesertSage  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:19:16pm

Well, you have to admit, for better or worse things are changing in the Middle East under this president.

Nothing happened in the Middle East, not a damn thing, no engagement under the (so called) leadership of Bill Clinton. Bin Laden declared war on America and al-Qaeda attacked everything in sight...culminating with 9/11.

Right or wrong, at least Bush is engaged in the Middle east, and we haven't been attacked on the homefront since 9/11.

32 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:20:38pm

I don't know which is worse. The fact that they're now trying to make nice with Iran, when we should instead be pounding in their heads over their "Quest for Atomic Fire."

Or the fact that they chose Memorial Day, the day when we honor and remember those who've died at the hands of Iran's proxy army in Iraq, to have these talks.

God, I'll be glad when 2008 is here. I have a good deal of hope that Fred Thompson will announce his candidacy, trounce the Dem nominee, and bring some sense back to the White House.

33 astronmr20  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:21:12pm

I can't beleive this. Some of these shitbags tried to off my brother while in Iraq. Killed some of his fellow soldiers. Continue to do so. Part of his job was to prove their existance there (He did it with honor).

And we are talking to them.

Fuck!!


Sorry guys my head is spinning over this one.

34 Ojoe  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:22:22pm
Speaking later at a news conference in the Iranian Embassy, Kazemi said: “We don’t take the American accusations seriously.”

And they won't, unless we knock them on their ass with ordnance.

Pretty soon, no-one will take us seriously, and we had better do something about it, or in the words of Yeats,

"Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world"

35 MandyManners  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:23:44pm

#27 astronmr20

I hope.

36 NoLimit  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:24:02pm

Every time some lib says: Let's open up diplomatic ... blah. blah. blah ...with Iran & Syria... Let's get them to help. I laugh.

I'm not laughing now.

37 Ward Cleaver  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:25:18pm

I was afraid this was coming, but I was still disappointed when I saw it on the news tonight. The story said that the Iranians supported our withdrawal from the ME (natch!), but no mention of Iran's nukes.

Instead of this, we should be destroying Iran's refineries, are showing them that we're tired of them exporting shaped charge projectiles and jihadis into Iraq.

Bush has seriously fucked up fighting this war.

38 DesertSage  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:25:36pm
God, I'll be glad when 2008 is here. I have a good deal of hope that Fred Thompson will announce his candidacy

Uh-Oh...
And on a thread that cbinflux is on.

...wait 'till I get my popcorn.

:')

39 stuck in california  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:25:51pm

The talks could be;
Hey Dinnerjscket, you got 1 month to stop your shit or the Navy will pay you a visit. Got it?
Save face NOW!
Yeah, I am a dreamer.

40 Ojoe  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:27:07pm

Good evening,

The centrifuges are spinning in Iran again today,

Spinning, spinning, pulling out the uranium hexafloride with the 235 isotope,

Storing up death again today,

To be used by the mullahs against the innocents in the name of allah,

As soon as they can unleash it.


I hope we have a plan.

• • •

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart, the center cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

William Butler Yeats

41 Ward Cleaver  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:28:13pm

Hey Targetpractice, good to see you here.

(mangrunt)

42 Ojoe  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:28:41pm

GWB should read my post 34. I hope he does.

Good night all.

43 Noam Sayin'  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:28:58pm
The United States had no plans to launch a strike against Iran from Iraq, he said.

Heh. That leaves a couple options.

44 seagreenroom  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:29:28pm

Agreed. Bush has lost me. I've been a supporter, but his lack of fight on important issues is a downer. Surrendering our borders was the last straw for me. I've already told RNC fundraisers not to even call me anymore.

45 St. Pancake  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:30:02pm

41 Ward Cleaver
Womangrunt

Not certain I wish to enter the fray, but I will serve drinks, and take hats.

46 cosmo  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:30:02pm

And I don't take the Iranian ambassador seriously. Any "talks" where the lying Iranian murderers come to table and "sit nicely and discuss" is just so much smoke screening. If America pulls out, the Shiite will really hit the fan. Iranian shiites hitting the Iraqi fan.

There are munitions with Iranian IDs all over them that have claimed American lives. If we had any backbone left in America, we'd have already run our M1-A1 Abrams' right into Ahmadinejad's front door.

Of course Demo leadership is too busy hugging trees in Greenland while Reps are kissing Ted Kennedy's fat white butt and ushering in the next wave of foreign scofflaws to take and take and take...

Close the border. Fund the troops. Take off the gloves. Open the CIA prisons. Tap my friggin' phone. We have shat upon the memory of our nation's finest on their Memorial Day.

47 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:30:12pm

#41 Ward Cleaver

Hey, glad to be back. Though the place has changed. All these young faces and fresh ideas. Feel like I landed back at Square One.

48 Noam Sayin'  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:30:54pm
One reporter asked Crocker if he had a meal with Kazemi during a break in the talks that ran over the lunch hour.

No, the veteran American Mideast hand said, a wry tone in his voice. "We drank tea together."

Waddya mean by 'wry' tone, weasel?

49 BabbaZee  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:31:17pm
50 Promethea  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:32:14pm

I think the U.S. Presidency is an impossible job for any human to do well. We need a much better Congress to help the President.

This particular Congress is full of liars, cheats, and traitors. The sooner we Americans remedy this, the better.

In my long life, I've never seen a President who could be right all the time on all issues. There are just too many competing factions that affect policy.

Let's always keep in mind that there are three branches of government, and all of them need to be run by Americans who actually love this wonderful country.

"Transnational progressives," i.e. rich limousine liberals who can hire their own bodyguards, need to be thrown out of office ASAP.

51 Ward Cleaver  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:32:33pm

I ran across a Ron Paul supporter today.

When the guy asked why I wouldn't vote for Paul, I said, "'Cause he's a nut!". I was successfully able to shoot gaping holes in his "But Ron Paul has lots of support in online polls" meme.

All in all, I had fun.

52 ProUSA  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:34:13pm

#6 Aussie Infidel 5/28/2007 9:03:42 pm PDT

I out of 10 chance of success? Why so optimistic? I would put the odds of anything sucessful coming out of talks with Iran at 1 in 10,000,000 -- unless our talks go something like this:

"Within 2 days, you (Iran) will ceaase all support of terror and insurgencies in the world, including Syria, and you will turn over all nuclear materials the us and apologize for being a stupid pain int he ass. If this is not acceptable, expect lots of things in your country to start exploding. I still have ten minutes to spare. Did you want to continue this discussion over coffee or tea?"

53 Ward Cleaver  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:35:21pm

Hey, St. Pancake, and BabbaZee. I trust we all had a good Memorial Day?

We went to a pool party in the neighborhood. I got in the pool with my kids, despite the fact that it's been raining all weekend, and the temperature in the pool was 73 degrees (brrrr!).

54 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:35:28pm

#51 Ward

I've actually watched a real, live Ron Paul supporter try to argue in the man's favor on another board. The guy basically kept trying to push the "We're the cause of alot of our problems" deal as far as he could, but kept getting hung with his own words. Finally decided he'd had his ass handed to him enough times and just disappeared.

55 freedomplow  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:35:29pm

I don't agree.

It takes a long time to change the world.


I do agree on the media leaks.


The Sandy Burger pants stuffing mystery must be solved.

Why did Sandy Burger take classified information (that he stuffed in his pants and socks) out of the National Archives, ran down the street and them tucked them under a construction trailer?

A day or days later, Sandy returned to the construction trailer, went home and cut the classified documents into tiny pieces and threw them into the trash.

WTF!

56 Promethea  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:35:42pm

#28 andalus . . .

Bush simply knows on which side his bread is oiled (buttered).

I've never had the impression that Bush is the kind of man who cares deeply about enormous wealth. In trying to understand Bush and his policies, I never look for "wealth accumulation" as the key to his character and policies.

57 Ledger1  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:35:46pm

I don’t like the idea of opening diplomatic relations with the enemy. It breaks Bush’s policy of “If you harbor a terrorists you are just as guilty as a terrorists.”

Now, saying that the US will try the diplomatic approach and it really happening is another story. From the past press conferences, Bush wanted to increase the sanctions on Iran. I can’t really find anything more to refute that.

Now, there is a possibility that a split has occurred between the US and the Maliki government. But, I don’t see that either.

[State briefing]

QUESTION: The President said that he believed that the UN sanctions regime against Iran should be strengthened and he said he had discussed the matter with Secretary Rice, I think this morning. Can you shed any light on how it might be strengthened, whether it might, for example, seek to tighten up on foreign export credits or make the arms embargo mandatory?

MR. CASEY: Well, I don't want, again, try and get ahead of the diplomacy either in New York or more broadly with the P-5+1. But I think, as the President's statement made clear, we are now at a point where, unfortunately, because Iran hasn't complied with the requirements of the Security Council and the international community, we do need to move forward with another round of sanctions. And the P-5+1 in putting together their original proposal included, as you know, both the negative pathway of sanctions as well as the positive pathway of negotiations. And there's a wide range of measures I think that are still available for the Council to look at that would place some increasing pressure on the Iranian regime.
See: state briefing

[Whitehouse Briefing]

Q Yes, one quick one. Iraqi lawmakers are expected to take up on Sunday a resolution that would ask the United States to leave. When the President said yesterday that if the Iraqi government asked us to leave, we'll leave, did he mean -- what form does that take? Is that the resolution? Is it Maliki saying it?

MR. STANZEL: I think the President was clear, in that it is a sovereign nation, and if it -- it is the choice of the government of Iraq to make that decision. That is something the President said that we would accept. So if it's the choice of the sovereign government of Iraq, that is what we would accept.
However, as the President indicated yesterday, we think that they -- we would hope that they would understand that the precipitous withdrawal of coalition forces and American forces would lead to further violence, would lead to further chaos, and could endanger that government, and the people of Iraq. So we will continue to work with them on security matters. The President was fairly clear on that yesterday.

See: Whitehouse briefing

58 Ward Cleaver  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:36:31pm

Good night Ojoe.

59 NoLimit  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:36:31pm
#44 seagreenroom

Agreed. Bush has lost me. I've been a supporter, but his lack of fight on important issues is a downer. Surrendering our borders was the last straw for me. I've already told RNC fundraisers not to even call me anymore.

sounds just like the conversation I had when they called last.

60 Maine's Michael  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:37:12pm

Bush just cut the legs our from under Petraious.

Baker's Iraq Study Group recomendations are being implemented right before our eyes.

The Iraq war is lost.

Iran will get its Nuclear Power Status, and be the Gulf hegemon

Bush will go down in history as one of the worst modern American Presidents, on a par with Carter.

How do I know?

A jamaican lady at 1-800-psychic told me.

61 St. Pancake  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:37:18pm

Ward Cleaver
Hell, it rained all day here.

Good grief!
Glad you spent time with the kiddos. :)

62 ProUSA  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:38:43pm

#50 Promethea 5/28/2007 9:32:14 pm PDT

Well said. Without the support of all branches of our government, a President can only do so much. The less unified we are on the basic issues (defense, immigration, etc.) which were historically obvious the the vast majority, the more time a president has to waste on politics and maintaining control -- instead of doing what is right.

63 stuck-in-ca  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:39:06pm

I really don't know what to think about Bush anymore. On one hand he's been steadfast on Iraq, yet sets up PC rules of engagement such that the war can't be won.
He's been so effectively undermined by the media and the Dems that he isn't even willing to defend himself, so how can he defend the nation...especially with his dangerous open border/globalist policy which I detest.

All I know is....I can't wait until Jan 2009. It's too painful to watch him anymore and even harder to defend him.

64 new2thezoo  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:39:19pm

The last I heard there would be no talks until Iran suspended it's uranium enrichment? Aren't they still spinning overtime? Looks like he's searching for a way out. He's lost his spinal fluid.

65 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:39:54pm

#60 Maine's Michael

How do I know?

A Jamaican lady at 1-800-psychic told me.

Did she also say that she saw Bin Laden hiding in a cave?

66 Promethea  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:40:46pm

#55 freedomplow . . .

The Sandy Burger pants stuffing mystery must be solved.

Why did Sandy Burger take classified information (that he stuffed in his pants and socks) out of the National Archives, ran down the street and them tucked them under a construction trailer?

A day or days later, Sandy returned to the construction trailer, went home and cut the classified documents into tiny pieces and threw them into the trash.

WTF!

I'd love to see some energetic blogger keep on the Sandy Berger pants case. There's much more here than meets the eye. Why is the Bush administration protecting Sandy Berger? The Justice Department should be pursuing him like the Furies. There is a story here. If I were a novelist, I would write it.

67 BabbaZee  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:41:47pm

Hiya Ward.

I had people over, I'm whooped.

WLGF is gonna go occupy the bed like the Zionist Hell Razer she is ;~}

See ya manyana

68 St. Pancake  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:42:50pm

65 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

When was the last time you posted? Have not seen your nic in a dog's age.

69 freedomplow  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:43:24pm

It takes a long time to make the world a better place.

It takes an instant to make it worse.

70 Irene NYC  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:43:31pm

Grim. Just grim.

71 Ginn  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:43:54pm
The Bush administration is perilously close to jumping the tracks. I’ve supported the President through the long course of the war that began on September 11, but it’s starting to look like he’s simply getting tired; he won’t defend his administration against attacks, he won’t defend the country against illegal immigration, he won’t do anything to stop the media leaks that cripple our national security ... and now this

Charles,

I.E., Iran:

Keep your friends close, your enemies, even closer.


Your friend and admirer,

Ginn

72 Bill Amos  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:44:54pm

I have no problem with it IF in the meeting the ambassidor is threating to level Tehran if Iran doesnt stop supporting the insurgency and Sadr.

Thats meaningful dialog.

73 MandyManners  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:45:05pm
74 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:45:47pm

#68 St. Pancake

Been a good, long while. Got so wrapped up in college and my new job that by the time I could take a breath, alot of my fellow Lizards had left and the site had boomed to the point I couldn't get a word in edgewise.

Been hiding out on smaller boards for awhile now, but decided I'd try to sneak back into LGF while the guards were asleep.

75 Insert Clever Name Here  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:46:08pm

52 proUSA
~~~~~~~
unless our talks go something like this:

"Within 2 days, you (Iran) will ceaase all support of terror and insurgencies in the world, including Syria, and you will turn over all nuclear materials the us and apologize for being a stupid pain int he ass. If this is not acceptable, expect lots of things in your country to start exploding. I still have ten minutes to spare. Did you want to continue this discussion over coffee or tea?"

Somewhere earlier today, a (IIRC) service member (soldier of some branch or other) basically said that this is what went on. All couched in DIPLOMATIC SPEEK, of course.


(Sorry, I don't remember who/topic.)

76 Ward Cleaver  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:46:52pm

#61 St. Pancake

We've had rain on 18 of the 28 days this month, and 1.18" today. Almost 5.5" so far this month. The nearby lake, Lake Lavon, has gone from being seventeen feet down last August, to a few inches over this now.

The drought is over.

77 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:47:36pm
#28 andalus

Bush simply knows on which side his bread is oiled buttered

Is that you andalus?

/do us a favor, crawl back under your rock meteorite

78 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:47:48pm

Don't negotiate from a position of weakness unless your back is against the wall.

The Iranians have all the cards just now; the media, the Democratic Party, their own legions of fanatics, and many billions in lucrative business contacts. In short, massive numbers of westerners are outright traitors and saboteurs whose interests and sympathies lie with the Iranians.

The real threat is internal and that must be addressed if there is to be any chance of saving civilization from the satanic coalition that now threatens its very existence.

79 St. Pancake  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:48:15pm

74 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Ah!

College and work at the same time will do one in easily.

You must be young and energetic.
I remember those days.
Welcome back.

80 DesertSage  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:49:37pm

If we're gonna talk to Iran, shouldn't Bush get a big hug like Hugo did?

81 Ward Cleaver  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:50:19pm

Good night all. Back to work tomorrow, after four days off. See you all on the DDT.

82 freedomplow  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:50:37pm

GWB has eliminated a dictator that paid 25 grand to suicide bombers in Israel.

Maine's Michael
Still posting crap I see.

83 Durendal  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:51:07pm

so far...maybe. (does immigration count? bc that is worse) but this year is going to get much worse. full capitulation on:

-open borders
-iraq surrender
-tax hikes
-global warming

i think Nero - err i mean Bush - will make sure to crater the stock market with sharp rate hikes if the above doesn't do it...only makes sense given his current strategy.

our best hope at this point is that Bush has only gone nuts (yes, only), and that he burns down the whole ME along with Washington

84 Durendal  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:52:58pm

#71 Ginn

LOL i think Bush skipped to Godfather III

85 St. Pancake  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:53:10pm

80 DesertSage
No idea.
Can we ask Andalus who has shit oil for brains?

86 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:54:25pm

Bush is utterly clueless about everything except his determination to open the border and essentially abolish the United States (and incidentally, Mexico too) as a sovereign country. He has never wavered from that goal.

87 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:54:52pm

#79 St. Pancake

Yeah, it was no picnic. But I'm gettin' a handle on things, so I figured I'd try to get back into the swing of things.

Like I said, I've been hiding out on small boards, watching the Left slowly dissolve further and further into utter lunacy. The DUmp in the last few days has been especially fun to watch, especially since the Spending Bill passed and Cindy quit the Dem Party. Never seen so much bile and rage spewed at one time in my life.

88 DesertSage  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:57:31pm

#71 Ginn

Ginn is my hero.
:')

89 ruddoj  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:59:39pm

Charles,
I have felt the way you are feeling since Bush told the Mexican delegation (while he made his trip to Mexico and boxed lettuce) that he would do everything he could to keep the border OPEN.....

the next day I took my 'Bush 04' sticker off my vehicle and realized Bush (and the entire federal govt. for that matter) are just unwilling to tackle issues that may cost them votes during the next round of elections.

-borders are wide open and Bush and Co. seem unwilling to even discuss the issue.

-gas prices are over 3 bucks a gallon and we are told by our President to spend more money to keeep our economy strong.

-illegal immigrants roam every major U.S. city and the Federal Govt does NOTHING to stop their actions, saying they need amnesty.
-socialism and the welfare state have grown and prosper under the Bush admin, all at the tax payers expense.

-Bush seemed unwilling to use his power as President to push the will of Conservative America on the liberal/democratic minority (while he had the chance).

-Bush has not realized the mistakes of past history and is repeating many mistakes Democracies have made that led to their demise.

-The current state of the DOJ leadership and the prosecutions of Border Agents and Texas law enforcement officers at the urging of the Mexican Consulate tells me that the Mexican Govt. has more pull inside the DOJ than OUR President does.

-Not calling for P. Musarraf (sp) to let the US interview A.Q. Khan after his nuclear program was discovered has been one of Bush's biggest blunders.

-Bowing to the political demand of Musarraf for US troops NOT to enter Pakistan to look for Bin Laden has been a slap in the face to every American that wants Bin Laden's head on a platter!

-Not using superior firepower on the Iraq/Iran and the Iraq/Syrian border to stop the influx of Jihadists has cost American lives.

-Telling Israel to ease up on Hizb-Allah in Lebanon (and still the 3 IDF soldiers have not been returned) sent mixed signals to the entire region.

-Bush has failed to even stand up to the local media that pushes every conspiracy and 'lame-duck' issue they can come up with.

-Letting the US Military prosecute US Military persons for wartime decisions has sent the worst type of message to our troops and those that want us dead.

-not asking ALL Americans to SACRAFICE for this war has, in my opinion, sent a message of apathy and non-urgency to the entire population that does not understand this war against the modern-day Islamic crusade into the Western world.

-not confronting Hugo Chavez with defined diplomatic or even a Presidential rebuttle has given him a cult like status in South America.

-not explaining to the American people WHAT and WHO and WHY we are fighting has been one large missed opportunity.


I realize many here will disagree with some of my opinions, or maybe all of them....but I think we all need to realize the Bush Presidency has officially left us (us here in the States) in a very dangerous spot.....NOT defending our borders AND rewarding the illegals already here AND not fighting the Jihadists around the globe with as much violence as they are inflicting on the rest of the world has a lot of citizens confused on where this country is really going.

How can a President be so aggressive in Iraq and in Afganistan and ignore the entire border issues at home?

I have lost all faith in the Govt. to solve even the smallest of problems.

It is up to US as individuals to plan for the worst and hope for the best....

90 Insert Clever Name Here  Mon, May 28, 2007 9:59:51pm
Bush is utterly clueless about everything except his determination to open the border.

I know I'm still kind of "rosy scenario" on the GWOT, but that sure hit home.

(The truth hurts, eh?)

91 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:00:27pm

I have only 2 positive words to say about GWB:

Goracle
sKerry

92 Ledger1  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:00:35pm

The whole thing sounds like a bad idea.

Here is how Debka saw the story (take it with a grain of salt)

'Iran proposes a US-Iran-Iraqi trilateral mechanism to coordinate security matters in Iraq'

This was reported by US Ambassador Ryan Crocker after meeting his Iranian counterpart Hassan Kazemi-Qomi at the home of Iraqi PM Nouri al Maliki in Baghdad Monday, May 28. It was their first official dialogue in 27 years. The Iranian side did not respond to the concerns the US envoy laid out regarding Tehran’s support for militias fighting coalition forces, the explosives reaching insurgents from Iran and the demand to stop the activities of Revolutionary Guards. Neither did the Iranian diplomats have specific issues to put on the table, including the seven Iranians in US hands...

Crocker said that Iran, Iraq, and his own delegation agreed on policy and guiding principles. In that respect the talks were positive. However, Washington wants to see Iran’s actions on the ground come into harmony with their policies. At present they are at cross-purpose. Iraq extended an invitation for another meeting. No issues came up outside the framework of Iraq security, Crocker asserted.

see: trilateral

93 pat  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:01:29pm

I think Bush is trying to figure a way not to attack these assholes. And we will pay dearly while Europe surrenders. As for the borders, it is clear that Bush is not only getting poor advice, he is spitting in the face of Republicans everywhere and being sucked into a Democratic plan to turn America into a country so far removed from conservative values that it will never recover.The Republican Party will die and be replaced by something that looks like today's Democratic Party. A socialist party will become the new Dems. And all will hate Western values. Bush is a robot.

94 Stuck-in-CA  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:01:57pm

I'm willing to impeach Bush on the illegal immigration issue alone.

95 reluctant democrat  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:03:52pm
Kazemi said U.S. efforts to rebuild those forces were inadequate to handle the chaos in Iraq, for which he said Washington bore sole responsibility. He said he also offered to provide what assistance Iran could in rebuilding Iraq’s infrastructure, which he said had been “demolished by the American invaders.”

Utter humiliation. All I can hope is we are destabilizing their regime while they are in Baghdad talking. Yeah, right.

The Bush administration sees everything in terms of elections. Hey, maybe a few more people will vote for Republicans if we act like Democrats! No, Mr. President, LEAD like you did after 9/11.

96 stuck in california  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:04:47pm

#94 Stuck 1

Amen!

97 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:05:45pm

I really think that loyal Americans, conservative and liberal alike, are on their own till January 20th, 2009.

The jihad and its traitorous allies cannot defeat and subjugate us entirely in a year and a half, and they probably cannot destroy Israel in that time, but the cost of victory will be exponentially higher than it need have been.

98 cbinflux  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:07:28pm

Bush seems to have only one goal left, the amero.

99 DesertSage  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:08:21pm

Yes, Bush sucks...but I will still never vote for a Democrat.

100 cbinflux  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:09:03pm

LATE BREAKING NEWS!

FDT is considering running for POTUS.

101 Jim Rockford  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:09:27pm

Bush just wants to surrender. Surrender on everything.

Of course Iran will Iraq, and nuke Israel with impunity. No doubt to the delight of the Daily Kos crowd. But they'll also nuke us, also with impunity, if a Dem is in office.

Iran has waged war against us since 1979, and we reward them by rolling over and begging like a kicked dog. Not to mention our murdered soldiers and marines by Iranian weapons and people.

102 FloatingRock  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:11:22pm

It seems that the Bush Doctrine has been redacted.

Time to buy off North Korea… or wait, didn’t we already do that?

Seriously though, I wouldn’t mind talking to Iran if it consisted of our forewarning them as a prelude to a formal and public warning if they didn’t respond affirmatively. However since Bush is near the end of his dismal presidency I seriously doubt that’s the case.

103 zombie  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:12:53pm
The Bush administration is perilously close to jumping the tracks.

Do you mean jumping the shark?

Or jumping on the tracks?

I'm not sure what "jumping the tracks" is supposed to convey, emotion-wise.

Either way, I'm starting to agree. How about "Jumping in with the sharks."

104 shmujew  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:13:33pm

ARAB OIL CAMEL DRIVERS RUN THIS MORON AND HIS DADDY

105 pat  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:14:29pm

99 DesertSage
That is true, but if these fools think I or anyone I know will vote for someone who supports this immigration bill, then they must be crazy. Fuck the GOP. Sellouts for money.

106 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:14:33pm

#91 Shiplord Kirel

That basically is the best and (in the end) only argument in the man's favor: He was the lesser of two evils. But, as we all know, the lesser of two evils is still evil.

I will say that President Bush has been one of our most lackluster, "leaves-much-to-be-desired" presidents in modern times. He is by no means in Jimmy the Dhimmi territory, but he is hovering somewhere just above Herbert Hoover.

I will also say that it has been and will always be my belief that, without 9/11, George W. Bush would've been a one-term nobody that was quickly forgotten in the pages of history. He'd never have had the popular support to get alot of his economic policy passed (including the all-important tax cuts), would've been repeatedly dogged by scandals (both real and imaginary), and would've been seen as a pale imitation of his father. The GOP would've lost badly in 2002 and 2004, including the presidency, and we'd be now listening to President Howard Dean tell us about how America's irrational fear of a "nuclear Iran" is preventing us from making real progress in the region.

107 DesertSage  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:14:37pm

I still won't even consider voting for any of the Democrat presidential candidates!

108 freedomplow  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:15:16pm

Illegal aliens murder
12 Americans daily
Death toll in 2006 far overshadows total
U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq, Afghanistan

Demand reform in Mexico or they should suffer consequences.

They did just elect a guy that is cracking down.

Liberals hated it.

109 goodbye_natalie  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:16:13pm

This is one issue I will hold my water until I hear what the definition of is, is.

If our diplomacy is that we will light a fire under your ass Mahmoud if you don't starting backing off and this is your one and only warning, then I'm all for it. Diplomacy like Schwarkopf passing the treaty to Saddam's lynchman after the highway to hell?

If it is to acquiesce to a little thug and the little man's leash pulling mullahs, then I too have finally given up on Bush.

The immigration alone is impossible to defend.

110 goodbye_natalie  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:18:37pm

Oh, and I'm with DesertSage, no matter the meaning.

I'll light my house on fire before I vote for a Dimocrat in 2008.

111 braverutherford  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:19:27pm

Once again, I'm compelled to post the link to this story since Bush seems compelled to lead us down the garden path to "life imitating art."

112 Insert Clever Name Here  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:19:46pm

#89 ruddog
~~~~~~~
Wow! That was quite a list! As for this one:

-illegal immigrants roam every major U.S. city and the Federal Govt does NOTHING to stop their actions, saying they need amnesty.

I know the "moderate" position is "we can't deport them all". But if you could just deport the 50 - 100 who wait in front of the Home Improvement Store every day the people would support you. It would be a dent in the numbers.

Alas, no. GWB wants illegals in USA.

(sad but true)

113 Jimmy The Clam  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:22:49pm

#94 - Stuck-in-CA
You too, eh?
I know the feeling.

As I said weeks ago, I'm done with Bush.

He will be the "Jimmy Carter" of the GOP party.

114 justacanuck  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:24:48pm

Charles,

I've been with you all the way on this ride since 9/11, even though I didn't find your site until some time later. A few years ago, I dug back and read your post of 9/13 and your thoughts that day still grab me to my core.

Perhaps I'm wrong here, but I don't see this move by the Bush administration to open a dialogue with Iran as being contemptible. Actually, I'm seeing it as boxing in Ahmading-dong, in something akin to a Tholian web ('scuse the Trekgeek leak).

Consider that we know what his intentions are - he's made them pretty plain. Consider that al Baradei's IAEI is proving just as effective as it was Iraq in 2002. THE UN is an utter waste of effort - that's been proven many times now since Gulf War I - so little point in mounting that stage again is there?

No, I think it all makes sense. Let Iran back themselves into a corner by continuing to say one thing while doing another. Then in a while we catch them with a major arms shipment headed over the border, or some senior Al-Quds in country. How much more evidence would one need then? Those carriers in the Gulf are just sitting there ready to go. Ready like a loaded mousetrap. Come get the cheese Mr. Ahmading-dong.

115 Insert Clever Name Here  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:24:56pm

#106 Target Practice
~~~~~~~

The GOP would've lost badly in 2002 and 2004, including the presidency, and we'd be now listening to President Howard Dean tell us about how America's irrational fear of a "nuclear Iran" is preventing us from making real progress in the region.

That is quite a nightmare you laid out.

(Scary indeed.)

116 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:24:56pm

What would I have done?

Immediately after the identity of the 9-11 murderers was established, I would have asked Congress for a declaration of war contingent upon the Taliban's response to an ultimatum to turn over bin Laden and his entire gang.
Once the deadline was past, and war was declared, I would have asked for a blank check for national defense, a tax increase, rationing and price controls as necessary, and all other emergency measures to fight another world war.
I would have called up ALL military reserves, just as FDR did in 1941.
I would have asked for authorization for a renewal of the draft, but first I would have made an impassioned call for 1 million volunteers to fight a global war of extermination against Islamic terrorists.

I would have opened the battle with simultaneous strikes against Al Qaeda affiliates and supporters in every part of the world, applying World War 2 rules of engagement, and with or without the consent of the local governments. This is what many of us expected, and we were sorely disappointed. I was astonished, for example, when American forces did not smash the AQ nest in Somalia in the early days of the war. The rats scampered back to Saudi Arabia but returned to Somalia once they realized they were safe there. They should not have been safe in Saudi itself, for that matter.

The idea that we didn't have the forces for this is frankly ridiculous. Very few of our troops were needed in Afghanistan and the wartime expansion would have filled the ranks by the time Iraq came along, provided Saddam had continued his defiance after his fellow terror enablers had been reduced to charred bones.

No wonder the left devils started seeing this as an opportunity to relive their Vietnam glory days. It is being fought like Vietnam, a peacetime war. We can't afford to lose this time.

117 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:25:48pm

Just remember . . .

/when you vote Bonkey, you get the whole package

118 Zack  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:25:54pm
The American envoy said there was broad policy agreement, but that Iran must stop arming and financing militants who are attacking U.S. and Iraqi forces.

Or else what?

119 MandyManners  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:32:41pm

109 goodbye_natalie

I'm betting it's the former. I simply cannot imagine any other scenario. We've made a naval show of force and we've started hammering Iran about the Americans they've kidnapped.

120 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:33:46pm

#117 Killian Bundy

Yikes!
Howard Zinn for Secretary of Education? Besides being one of the worst liars since Goebbels, the fascist bastard is about 150 years old.

Jimmy Carter for Agriculture? Hello, global famine!

121 USBeast  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:33:57pm

I hope, and this is only a hope, that we've inviting Iran to the table for the sole purpose of allowing it to shoot itself in the foot on the world stage.

No one with the sense God gave a doorknob can possibly believe that Iran has anything to offer but Mad Hatter pronouncements...I hope.

122 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:35:59pm
#118 Zack

Or else what?

Or else we bomb the [expletive deleted] out of them.

/this conflict is far from over, it's just taken a major turn into the classified realm

123 victor_yugo  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:36:59pm

#103 zombie:

The Bush administration is perilously close to jumping the tracks.

Do you mean jumping the shark?

Or jumping on the tracks?

Quite the opposite: getting derailed.

124 JohnRC  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:37:54pm

I've been having Paris Peace Talks, early '70's all day.

125 greginseattle  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:37:59pm

OT...

Last year, a really bad idea was re-electing Darth Murtha

Corruption in the House:
[Link: powerlineblog.com...]

126 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:38:18pm

As usual, VDH cuts through the fog of defeatism and appeasement:

Is Sky Falling on America?

We WILL prevail in this war. The only question is the cost.

127 JohnRC  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:39:14pm

#124, insert flashbacks after Talks

128 victor_yugo  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:40:19pm

#122 killian bundy:

At least you didn't say "bomb them back into the 7th century." That would have been redundant.

129 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:41:28pm

#125 greginseattle

Check out Killian's link in #117.

The communards actually suggest Murtha for Secretary of Defense. He might be able to negotiate a pretty big bribe from the Arabs for letting them destroy Israel but that is the end of his potential usefulness to anyone.

130 hershel  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:41:55pm

#75 Insert Clever Name Here:

You'd better be right. But in any case, on national security and WOT the worst Repulican is still light-years ahead of the best Democrat.

Except maybe Ron Paul.

131 Taqiyyotomist  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:42:32pm

zombie

When a train has been derailed, it is because it has "jumped the track".

Propane tank causes train derailment.
Associated Press

Authorities in Saginaw County say a propane tank played a role in a train derailment in Carrollton Township.

Two cars of a westbound, Saginaw Bay Southern Railroad freight train jumped the track early this morning. No one was hurt.

A hopper car, behind the engines, lost both axles and wheels near a rail crossing. The car and one behind it jumped the track but remained upright.

If the AP can use it, Charles can use it, even with a plurality of tracks, I say! ;)

132 a.k.a. Will  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:42:33pm

I think many Republicans and conservative Independents have been thinking along the same lines, but have been reluctant to voice the extent of their dissatisfaction with Bush. For some time, about the best thing I could say about him is that John Kerry would have been worse. And had it not been for 9/11, and all the patriotism and support that accrued to Bush as a result, I think he'd have been intensely disliked by Republicans during his first term, and could have been seriously challenged during the Republican primaries of 2004. He's a New England, country club Republican posing as a conservative from Texas, just as his father did.

Not to mention the fact that he came into office with Republican majorities in both houses of Congress, and has managed to fritter that away with policies that dishearten his conservative base, and his inability to effectively articulate and explain what he's trying to accomplish in the WoT.


A real success in Iraq might never have been possible. Removing Saddam has proven to be a repeat of the death of Tito, and the eventual dissolution of Yugoslavia. We didn't fully understand what Saddam had been keeping the lid on. There seem to be too many sectarian hatreds and old scores to settle, plus the fact the Muslims are unlikely to form any sort of democracy with any degree of individual rights and freedoms, and the jihadis coming in from other countries. They want Sharia, in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Both nations will likely have governments within a few more years that the old Taliban won't be too displeased with.

We can hope for the best in the last few years of trying in Iraq, but anything we'd call success might never have been possible.

133 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:46:27pm

I would bomb them back to the Hadean eon, no macroscopic life at all, poisonous atmosphere, lava everywhere.

134 Kaintuck  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:46:27pm

OT, and off to bed, but with this one:

Whoooo, Boy! CNN!

[Link: www.france24.com...]

135 ruddoj  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:48:26pm

good read by VDH #126....

136 rtheyserius  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:51:33pm
...it’s starting to look like he’s simply getting tired... he won’t defend his administration against attacks... (etc.)... and now this

..."starting"?

He's been caving ever since the dems won the House and Senate, starting with his firing of Rumsfeld, arguably the best Secretary of Defense we've ever had.

I believe he's a good man, but not made of the stuff we need now. That's been obvious for a very long time.

137 Stuck-in-CA  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:53:55pm

125- greginseattle


Last year, a really bad idea was re-electing Darth Murtha


After last week's Amnesty bill, I think they are ALL traitors who should be thrown the hell out of Congress.

138 victor_yugo  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:55:47pm

#132 a.k.a. Will:

I think you and Charles were on similar pages six years ago.

139 Scotch  Mon, May 28, 2007 10:58:40pm

Laws don't mean anything unless you get caught.

Just play the game and get what you can get.

/seems to be the norm

140 Insert Clever Name Here  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:01:06pm
#130 hershel 5/28/2007 10:41:55 pm PDT

You'd better be right. But in any case, on national security and WOT the worst Repulican is still light-years ahead of the best Democrat.

To be fair, it wasn't my idea. This person thought that we were (probably) holding "nicey - nice" talks with "oh, no you don't, jerks" underpinnings. When I read it, I thought 'Yeah, that would be great.'

As far as (D)'s versus (R)'s, I agree, though many Repub's still have a ways to go...


(I hope the debate shifts to Republican v. Super - Duper - Conservative - Republican. This would be good for the future.)

141 squarepeg  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:01:56pm

I can see a glint of a possible good thing in this.

At first, I hated the ISG (remember that clown-car?) and thought Bush had spit in the eye of everyone who takes the war seriously by convening it. Then, when he rejected their advice, it struck me that he was in a position to say, "I sent the most prestigious team of liberals and brains and peaceniks I possibly could, and this is the toilet paper they came up with."

Now, half the world wants Bush to leave off his bulling ways and drink tea with Iran. Okay, fine. When it all results in some outrageous proposition from their side that we reject out of hand, no one can say we didn't try.

Could happen.

142 zombie  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:02:04pm
#123 victor_yugo
#131 Taqiyyotomist

Ohhhhhh, jumping the track. Now I get it. I think I was thrown off by the plural "tracks."

I was visualizing someone jumping in front of a train, not someone (or something) being the train.

I grok the metaphor finally.

Even so, I think they've jumped the shark as well.

143 jfromfolsomca  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:03:48pm

Speaking later at a news conference in the Iranian Embassy, Kazemi said: “We don’t take the American accusations seriously.”

I think that is a big mistake.

j

144 Bellerophon  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:04:38pm

The only thing Arab radicals understand or respect is a boot pressing forcefully on the back of their necks. Remember when Ronnie flew F-111s around the pansies in Frogland to bomb Kadahfi's backyard? If I recall, one of the bombs killed his son. Nary a peep from Mohamar after that.

We have no business engaging in "talks" with Iran. They have vowed to bury us and Israel on numerous occasions and are simply using our diplomatic moves to divert attention from their nuclear malfeasance. Can you say "North Korea?"

145 a.k.a. Will  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:05:53pm

#138 victor_yugo 5/28/2007 10:55:47 pm PDT

#132 a.k.a. Will:

I think you and Charles were on similar pages six years ago."

Not sure what you mean. What little I posted in 2002 and 2003 was under a different nick. But I think 9/11 changed everything for W, and brought him (as it should) far more support than his pre-9/11 policies and intentions ever would have. Now people are focusing more on what their disagreements with W, and they are many. And more and more are realizing that Iraq might be too dysfunctional for anything we'd call success to be realized.

146 Victor  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:06:20pm

#11 MandyManners 5/28/2007 9:07:07 pm PDT

"Isn't this just another way to put the heat on Iran?"

To the contrary -- it means Bush admits he hasn't any heat left to put on Iran. So he's going to try kissy-face to get the mullahs to please stop undermining his dream of turning Muslims into liberals.

It's folly, and of a piece with the "democratizing" Muslims folly, but since Bush, at his core, is a true believing liberal utopian... folly is what we get.

147 squarepeg  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:08:03pm

#141 me

But in case I'm wrong, I have this to ask:

DICK CHENEY, WHERE THE F*** ARE YOU!?

148 FriarsTale  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:16:36pm

call me optimistic, but this part gives me hope:

but that Iran must stop arming and financing militants who are attacking U.S. and Iraqi forces.

is this just making a formal request so that when we later kick the sheeite out of them we can say "well, we tried diplomacy"

?

149 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:17:18pm

Bush needs to learn from this Israeli man the proper way to deal with a predator:

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]


(proving that Israel men are truly the "baddest" men in the whole world) :-)

150 FriarsTale  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:18:42pm

OT

Memorial Day Parade 2007
a women's Fife and Drum Corps

151 under the whip  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:19:28pm

I'm a newly-registered long-time reader of this blog from Australia. Whenever the lefties here are getting me down, or the opinion polls are saying John Howard will lose the next election, you guys cheer me up, and I leave here believing again that we are the good guys, and we will prevail.

Today, however, is not one of those days.

152 Insert Clever Name Here  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:19:29pm

#146 Victor
~~~~~~~

his dream of turning Muslims into liberals

That's a funny line!

Sadly, I dont' have much evidence to refute it.


(Again, I think this event is FAKE FOOTSIE, not actual FOOTSIE. He would like to set up more of a "GWB really was good for the Middle East" mindset. Even if it means killing them later, not now.)

153 MandyManners  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:21:20pm

141 squarepeg

DING! DING! DING!

154 we1  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:21:24pm

"BAGHDAD - The United States and Iran broke a 27-year diplomatic freeze"

When the President of the united States annouced that "Ilsam is a religion of peace" in a very important spech - did you not get it then?

Mat 12:33 the tree is known by his fruit.

What is in the heart - always comes out of the mouth.

We either hear it - or we don't.

Act 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

Who said:

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

In NO WAY are the teachings of beheadings, gang rape, crucifixions and treason love (all teachings of the Koran - by the way)

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

We either hear - or we don't

155 victor_yugo  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:23:39pm

#145 a.k.a. Will:

I was thinking of this post by Charles from Sept. 12, 2001.

156 jfromfolsomca  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:24:05pm

“We don’t take the American accusations seriously.” ...

The Americans insist that Iran, specifically its Quds force, has been bankrolling, arming and training Iraqi militants, particularly the Mahdi Army militia of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Those men, who are deeply embedded in the Iraqi armed forces and police, are believed to make up the Shiite death squads that have pushed Baghdad into the violence and chaos that prompted the U.S.-Iraqi security crackdown, now in its fourth month.

Beyond that, Iran is charged with sending into Iraq the deadly explosively formed penetrators, or EFPs, the armor piercing roadside bombs that have killed hundreds of U.S. soldiers. Mahdi Army commanders have told AP that they receive those weapons from the Revolutionary Guards and that many of the militia's foot soldiers have gone to Iran for training with the elite military force.

Kazemi and Crocker said the Iranians did not raise the subject of seven Iranians that were captured by the United States in Iraq. Five are still in U.S. custody.

...

The United States had no plans to launch a strike against Iran from Iraq, he said.

I believe GW is setting up the chess board. The iranians don't take these accusations seriously, but I bet GW does. The next few months should be interesting.

j

157 Durendal  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:27:10pm

#114 justacanuck

you think Bush is going to open up another war at this point in his career, under any circumstances? wishful thinking. as others have pointed out here, the recent faux-belligerence of Cheney and pledges to defend oil lanes are just telegraphing our surrender to Iran.

158 sharksandwich  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:33:41pm
I’ve supported the President through the long course of the war that began on September 11

I remember that day.

Osama Bin Laden.

he won’t defend his administration against attacks, he won’t defend the country against illegal immigration, he won’t do anything to stop the media leaks that cripple our national security

Perhaps "he" should find Osama Bin Laden.

159 freedomplow  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:37:08pm

The future doesn't belong to the faint hearted, it belongs to the brave.

Ronald Reagan

We welcome change and openness, but we believe that freedom and security go together.

160 Killian Bundy  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:37:45pm
#157 Durendal

just telegraphing our surrender to Iran.

Oh my God, all is lost, THE SKY IS FALLING!

/maybe you should just shoot yourself and ease the pain

161 MissLL  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:39:17pm

#141 Squarepeg

I also agree with you. Why would we want to think the worst of everything about this new Iran development?

And why should people here on the board (and I do love LGF a lot!) be so quick to give up on Iraq? It's not over, and wars are not won quickly (like in an MTV minute).

For that matter, most of what Bush set out to do on the Iraq war, he did - he got rid of Sadaam, and cleaned out a lot of terrorists. If Bush does nothing else with the rest of his administration, well, at least he did that. Bush held fast on the Iraq war when most people would just cave.

Thank God we didn't get Kerry or Gore - they would have sold us up the river in a minute with the Kyoto Treaty and Belgium witch-hunt trials and who knows what else. I totally think Bush is wrong on the immigration thing (I live in California, so I'm on the edge of it here) and he's just way too nice to the lefties, unfortunately. But the Iraq war? How many people would stick with that, with the abuse Bush gets every day, from all over the world?

162 amphibian  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:41:33pm

Depressing. Just depressing. Unless the Bush administration is taking a page from Iran's playbook -- keeping the other side talking while doing its own thing -- but it seems to be one of W's most constant properties that he says what he thinks with no such crookedness. More likely, the State Department and Jim Baker are calling the shots now. Expect implementation of Baker's Final Solution to the Israeli Problem any day now. Peace in our time, lizards! I can hardly contain my bowels with joy!

To tell the truth, I have a feeling that W has been hiding under his desk waiting for his second term to run out for the past several months. Shows him to be a decent man, I suppose. Washington isn't a place for such.

163 Victor  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:44:59pm

#152 Insert Clever Name Here 5/28/2007 11:19:29 pm PDT

(Again, I think this event is FAKE FOOTSIE, not actual FOOTSIE. He would like to set up more of a "GWB really was good for the Middle East" mindset. Even if it means killing them later, not now.)

Bush has been given extraordinary benefit of the doubt on too many things. If all the claims of his being a super-genius with diabolically cunning long-term plans were true we'd be Kings of the Freakin' Universe by now. But we're not. People should have figured out the truth at least after the Harriet Myers revelation. Bush is a narrow, unimaginative man with a distaste for learning. He displays an unthinking reliance on modern liberal ideology for his long term vision-thing. Under his poor leadership we've become confused, demoralized, divided, weakened, and our country is less safe because of his failure to effectively defend against both Islamic jihad as well as the invading aliens flooding across the border. His Presidency is a failure and a disaster. He is not a diabolical genius.

I voted for the man twice. And now I have BDS. Or rather, I've become disabused of my illusions. Looking back over Bush's statements and actions I see that he was a liberal all along, I just chose not to notice. And then it's true that the alternative was even worse. But choosing the slow road to hell over the short takes you to the same place, eventually.

164 DesertSage  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:45:55pm

I still won't vote for any Democrat....ever!

165 Stuck-in-CA  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:46:04pm

151- under the whip

Today, however, is not one of those days.


Yes, we all have those. This whole week has been one of those. Tomorrow is another day and hopefully a better one.

But welcome to LGF!

166 tantraman  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:46:05pm

We invaded Iraq, a neighboring country to Iran.

How would you be if Iran invaded Mexico or Canada?

167 freedomplow  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:50:50pm

sharksandwich
Registered lizardoid since: Mar 11, 2006 at 5:54 pm
No. of comments posted (since July 26, 2004): 4

JihadTV Coming to a Station Near You

The propaganda arm of the global jihad is preparing to launch an English version: Al Jazeera aims to go global - in English.

And they’ve paid off some Westerners to shill for them.

sharksandwich

God forbid another channel challenge Fox News for biased reporting!


Still being an ass I see.

168 Durendal  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:52:38pm

ya we would be talking about wiping Guatemala off the map, and planting IEDs in Mexico city, and blowing ourselves up in Mexican markets. like totally, dude


/silly commie

169 MissLL  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:54:56pm

#166 Tantraman

We invaded Iraq, a neighboring country to Iran.

How would you be if Iran invaded Mexico or Canada?

Uh, dude, we didn't threaten any countries with biological weapons (like Sadam did), or almost annihilate another country with our weapons (like Sadam almost did with Israel) just because we didn't like their religion.

Are you visiting from DU or Kos, and just how long will you be staying? Cuz you sound like a troll to me.

170 victor_yugo  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:55:58pm

#166 tantraman:

Look at the map. We invaded Iraq, and before it Afghanistan.

How would we be if Iran invaded Mexico AND Canada?

/as if

171 a.k.a. Will  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:56:05pm

#155 victor_yugo 5/28/2007 11:23:39 pm PDT

#145 a.k.a. Will:

I was thinking of this post by Charles from Sept. 12, 2001.

His speech to the joint session of Congress just after 9/11 was great, but that was one of the few that concerning the WoT that rose above mediocre. But his general ineffectiveness as a speaker is just one thing that's caused his approval rating to drop to the low 30s. He's managed, in one way or another, to piss off just about every identifiable group within the Republican supporters. And on big issues, not small things.

He and Rove might well be remembered as the two who destroyed the Republican party, and put them into another forty or more years of minority status, again. People are beginning to realize it, including Limbaugh and other conservative talk show hosts who've made significant contributions to Republican success the past fifteen or so years.

172 MissLL  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:56:39pm

#166 Tantraman

Oops, the second line should have been italicized too!

"How would you be if Iran invaded Mexico or Canada?"

That sure wasn't my line.

173 justacanuck  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:57:12pm

#157 Durendal

the recent faux-belligerence of Cheney and pledges to defend oil lanes are just telegraphing our surrender to Iran.

Nonsense. The only message the Irantards need understand is the capabilities of two carriers, an amphibious assault ship and their accompanying strike force package.

Perhaps we are trying to push or drag Iran into making the first belligerent move. Get them to sit down to tea and some nice diplomatic yap yap - it doesn't matter, does it? While such talks may serve to please the dhimmicrats (praise be upon Iman Pelosi) any meaningful words they utter we all know they won't follow through on - it's yet-another-stalling-tactic.

So give them a touch of diplomacy. Leave no quarter for the Donks to whine about. Then point at the broken promises or failures to respond by Ahmading-dong's minions.

We'll see. Let's just hope that something definitive gets done before the kook in Iran pushes the big red button.

174 freedomplow  Mon, May 28, 2007 11:57:50pm

#166 tantraman

We invaded Iraq, a neighboring country to Iran.

How would you be if Iran invaded Mexico or Canada?

If I were a country that encouraged terrorism and hatred I might get pissed.

I'll give a shit when they stop doing this.

Iran Executions

175 jimmytheclaw  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:03:39am

wish i still had my fuck iran tee shirt which i wore in 79'

176 Victor  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:06:41am

#158 sharksandwich 5/28/2007 11:33:41 pm PDT

"Perhaps "he" should find Osama Bin Laden.

What so many of us learned after 9/11, once we had taken the time to study Islam and do some thinking about it, is that we had a much bigger problem than stopping one man -- OBL. We were faced by an implacable foe with a 1400 year history of fanaticism and violent conquest -- Islam. But Bush never learned. That he still supports the lie that Islam is a religion of peace is the single greatest failure of his Presidency.

177 squarepeg  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:15:04am

#166 tantraman

This is really a waste of electrons, but what the hell.

tantraman, baby steps here. One invasion is not equal to another. For instance:

Germany invaded Poland in 1939 and turned it into a living hell.

U.S. invaded (more properly "assaulted") Germany in 1945 and removed satan from the world.

Just digest that before asking your next question.

178 docremulac  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:15:18am

#166 tantraman

"We invaded Iraq, a neighboring country to Iran.

How would you be if Iran invaded Mexico or Canada?"

If Mexico or Canada had invaded us and killed hundreds of thousands of our people as Saddam did to Iran, I'd be pretty happy.

Pesky details eh?

179 Durendal  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:16:57am

#173 justacanuck

sigh...i still have hope, but not for Bush.

180 DesertSage  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:19:52am

I will still NEVER vote for a Demonrat.

I don't care how f**king much Bush screwed the Republican party, I will never forget, as long as I live, how despicable the Dems have acted over the last few years.

I can't help but think that if the Dem leadership got on board with the Iraq war and actually showed a determination to win it, and they got their constituents to understand the need victory, that we may have won this thing. Instead, they've politicized this war from the beginning, and to me that's more disgusting then what Bush has done.

Yes Bush isn't a very good president. Yes Bush may have ruined the Republican brand for a while, But that doesn't mean that I'll EVER vote for a Democrat.
To me they are nothing more than a bunch of vitriolic, venomous, vicious, treasonous vermin that don't deserve to be called Americans.

181 freedomplow  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:24:13am

Saturday, May 26, 2007
Iranian Regime Brutality Caught on Tape


The Iranian regime continues its massive crack down on the youth of Iran in what they claim is a campaign against "street gangs".

Lap up their shit.

182 docremulac  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:26:37am

Bush ran on a reconcilliation platform. He was supposed to make nice with the liberals and dhimmicrats as laughable as that sounds now. He's just sticking with an obsolete game plan he should have tossed out a long time ago, this time with the Iranians.

He's got the most important thing right, holding governments responsible for terrorists they support, but he's been ground to a pulp by the liberal attack machine and it's really time for somebody else to take over. I'm hoping Romney or Juliani stops Iran because one of those guys will probably be the last President who'll have a chance before Iran gets the bomb.

183 docremulac  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:33:39am

#180 DesertSage

If it's any consolation, as tainted as the Republican brand might be right now, I'm thinking the Democrat party is finished. Remember, Congress's popularity rating is so far below Bush's the mainstream media has stopped talking about popularity polls alltogether. They were simply put into power because Americans wanted to try another tac on this war in my opinion, but nobody really believes their bullshit. Remember, we've got video tapes of all the Democrat Presidential candidates supporting this war and to a person, they came out and lied about being lied to.

I think the Dems are finished and are only going to be used to rein the the Republicans from time to time. Knock on wood.

184 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:40:39am

Remember to order your 'Plates of Surrender' today(h/t: Gateway Pundit)!

{This message was brought to you by the Party of Asses & 95% of the GoPee - a bipartisan message from hell.}

Mornin folks. It's certainly looking like another of those wonderful days in zee zones.

Ugh.

185 FloatingRock  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:41:18am

I hope some of you are right that there may be more going on here than it appears.

However, I predict that the primary purpose of these negotiations are to try to come to terms with Iran, whereby they’ll stop attacking us long enough to withdraw our forces without it appearing to be a retreat.

There will likely be terms concerning the level of influence Iran can have in Iraq and how many troops we can leave behind, and where, to selectively enforce the agreement.

Certainly both parties will start out with a long list of grievances, but this is merely an attempt to negotiate from a position of strength.

Unfortunately, the very fact that we would negotiate at all will be interpreted by Iran as weakness. The negotiations will not be easy and may fail.

Sorry for being pessimistic. I really do hope that I turn out to be wrong. It’s just that I’ve been disappointed at nearly every turn in the WOT.

I think that whatever terms they agree to, Iran and the other Jihadis are going to do everything they can to make us look bad during our exit.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the recent meetings with the Muslim Brotherhood are also part of those negotiations.

BTW, I’m not suggesting we should “stay the course” in Iraq, just that we shouldn’t be negotiation with Iran to accomplish whatever it is we decide to do.

186 victor_yugo  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:54:39am

#185 FloatingRock:

I’m not suggesting we should “stay the course” in Iraq, just that we shouldn’t be negotiation with Iran to accomplish whatever it is we decide to do.

We can negotiate with Iran while we look for a big enough rock. (And the willpower to use it.)

/channeling Will Rogers

187 freedomplow  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:55:12am

Song Agaisnt The Burka (English Subtittled)

Would some of you progressives stand up for these woman... Please!

188 zombie  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:02:15am

I dunno, seems like there's a lot of over-reacting and frustration-releasing on this thread.

Yes, we're all frustrated that the War on Islamic Extemism (let's just call it like it is) has not been prosecuted properly these last 5 years. HOWEVER, it's hasn't been a complete blunder. Many successes have been acheived under Bush, amidst the lost opportunities. But imagine this: Kerry winning in 2004, and (please stop reading now you seek to avoid bluntly vivid verbiage) immediately getting out the lube and applying it to the nation's rear-end so we could be ass-raped by the jihadis of this world. You KNOW it would have been a million times worse under Kerry. And you KNOW that the response to 9/11 would have been a million times worse under Gore.

Same goes for the other issues too: immigration, thought-crime legislation, and so on.

While Bush may not be perfect, he was by far the best option considering the options we had before us.

Take a step back for a moment, people: this is just one meeting with the Iranians. We don't know its real strategic purpose, or if it will lead to anything, or what. Behind the scenes, a lot of meetings are going on with all sorts of ne'er-do-wells all the time. They don't necessarily indicate a change in policy. As #152 Insert Clever Name Here says, this may be "fake footsie." There may be some long-term strategy behind it.

As a point of comparison, Nixon opened up relations with China during a time when the internal anti-American propaganda in China was totally over-the-top. They had missiles pointed at us, and they demonized the US every hour of every day. Why in the hell would the world's firmest anti-Communist open talks with them? Well, it wasn't entirely clear at the time, and a lot of conservatives in 1972 were furious with Nixon for his actions, but twenty, twenty-five years later it paid off, when China finally was compelled to abandon its socialist economic system for essentially a capitalist system (while maintaining the faux-communist oligarchy, at least for now).

Maybe this meeting will signal to the Iranian dissidents that the US will indeed re-embrace Iran should they succeed in overthrowing the Mullahs. "If the US will talk to the current government, albeit reluctantly, they'll surely engage with us." Who knows? There's so much propaganda inside Iran telling people that the US is anti-Iran under all circumstances, and that the US' anti-Iran stance has nothing to do with the Islamic regime currently in power, that perhaps even the dissidents were starting to believe it. And maybe Bush wanted to counter that impression.

I'm just speculating here to demonstrate a point: we don't know the actual purpose behind these talks, or if they'll lead to anything.

So let's take a deep breath.

There also seems to be on this thread some buying into the LLL media's "frame" that the war in Iraq is a big disaster that's getting worse all the time. Hold on there for a moment. I'm not buying that for one minute; haven't we all seen plenty of evidence that Iraq is not nearly as bad off as the media would want you to believe? That over 90% of the country is pacified and safe? That the vast majority of the population recognizes US troops as benign and helpful? That the Iraqis are starting to turn on the terrorists? That this remains, despite all the hand-wringing, the lowest-casualty US war ever? That the terrorists are left with nothing but attacking random civilians, since they have very limited opportunity to actually kill Americans? And that these random terror attacks only serve to push Iraqi people's opinions over to our side?

I'm not saying everything is a bed of roses, or that the meeting with Iran was a good idea, or that Bush is the greatest president since sliced bread. I'm just saying: let's keep some perspective!

189 zombie  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:03:59am

(I started that comment two hours ago and in the middle of it had to attend to real-world stuff, and when I came back and finally finished the comment, the thread had already moved on. Sorry!)

190 littleoldlady  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:39:43am
tap, tap!

poke, poke!

191 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:41:13am

Hello? Who there?

192 mayweed  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:41:54am

I'm sure Mr Ribbentrop (I mean, Mr Qomi) was absolutely delighted with the outcome of this latest diplomatic intitiative by the hated and soon-to-be doomed enemy (oops, I mean 'by the responsible leaders of the West').

Like most of us on LGF, I too have supported Bush throughout this war and I have always been quick to defend him from the critisms of his detractors (which, unfortunately, is nearly everyone I meet each day). But it's looking increasigly obvious that the President is a busted flush, and his current administration is not capable of meeting the challenges that lie ahead. In fact, they don't even seem to bother trying these days, and cave in quickly at the first sign of dissent.

War with Iran is absolutely inevitable. Due to the weakness of the Governments in Israel, the US, and just about everywhere else outside of Australia, it is a war that I now believe we will lose. And badly.

193 carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:42:41am

Zombie, THAT is GOOD!

I logged in from an Internet Cafe downtown... bizness... glad I did.

"Perspective" seems to be what Zombie is suggesting we maintain, here.

194 littleoldlady  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:43:46am

Miguelito! :-)

195 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:45:46am

Hello littleoldlady!
How's everything going? And everyone.

196 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:48:17am

#192 Mayweed: Please recall that Ribbentrop WAS very pleased with himself, and so was his master, Herr Schickelgruber.

But they were, even then, LOSING.

Have some faith in America, Bud, we're just slow to anger! (as a nation)

/Miguel, LilOldeLadye, friends... G'mawnin'

197 littleoldlady  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:49:30am

Miguel,

Can't complain.

/Now THERE's a first, huh? ;-)

Karridine! :-)

198 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:51:11am

littleoldlady
It sure WAS a first lol. I'm glad ;)

Carridine
Hello there! How are thing in Siam going?

199 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:52:42am

#197 Little Olde Ladie: with a K, no less! Thank you, Ma'am.

I'd love to stay and talk, but bizness calls.

Adieu until I once again reach my lil nook in my front room...

About 2.5 hours, sidereal time

200 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:53:39am

Bye Carridine, take care!

201 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:54:45am

#198 Miguel: RAINY... they're going soggy, that's what. You watching Venezuela? That's going south...

And speaking of south, Thailand is Islamofascist bloody, with the blood of Buddhists being selflessly shed by Muslims!

Gotta run, Miguelito! Vaya con Dios!

202 littleoldlady  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:55:50am

Is that not how YOU spell it? :-)

Bye, Karridine.

203 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:58:31am

¡Vaya con Dios, Carridine!
Yes Venezuela is in very bad shape now. That closure of the TV station was repelled by 80% of the people, who love the telenovelas, the musical programs, etc. that such station provides. I have the impression this is going to cost dearly to Chávez.
For instance, Angela Merkel, as the head of the EU right now asked for an investigation about it. Venezuela might be declared a dictatorship by the UE, a sight to behold indeed.

I know things are being so bad in "restive" Thailand, I hope the budhist majority can do something to stop the Muslim atrocities.

204 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:18:48am

# 188 zombie

Bingo.

205 littleoldlady  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:23:13am

Ooops!

If I didn't have to log in every time I post (WASSUP wid dat?) I may have remembered to put the fruitcup on the buffet -------------->

206 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:25:35am

littleoldlady
isn't there a little square saying "remember me" or somesuch?
If there is, select it.

207 littleoldlady  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:28:31am

I did, Miguel. But after a couple of posts it forgets who I am and asks again.

/both of us need ginkgo biloba...

208 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:30:57am

hahahaha littleoldlady.
I hope you get it back to normal soon.

209 backhoe  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:34:55am

This Administration has become a Clown Car performance, writ large.

Anyone with the persistence or obsession to bother searching my very public posts at Free Republic knows I was a reluctant supporter of President Bush when he first ran, became enthused after 9-11, and have shaken my head in disappointment after the 2004 elections.

I just wish they all would go away now.

210 littleoldlady  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:35:46am

That's what I get for poking the thread, I guess.

/it never pays to be rude.

;-)

211 galloping granny  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:36:35am
#192 mayweed 5/29/2007 1:41:54 am PDT

Like most of us on LGF, I too have supported Bush throughout this war and I have always been quick to defend him from the critisms of his detractors (which, unfortunately, is nearly everyone I meet each day). But it's looking increasigly obvious that the President is a busted flush, and his current administration is not capable of meeting the challenges that lie ahead. In fact, they don't even seem to bother trying these days, and cave in quickly at the first sign of dissent.

It seems to me, mayweed, as if something happened last summer about the time of the Summer War in Lebanon. Condi very obviously took over our foreign policy and policies that have been in place for 50 years have been thrown to the four winds.

To be perfectly honest about it, the actions - and more importantly, inactions - of the Bush administration have become so worrisome to me that I am beginning to (choke, cough, die) agree with the loons that he should be impeached. Unfortunately, impeaching Bush would not get rid of the crew that appears to be the real problem. All those heads of this and that would remain in place.

212 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:52:10am

You want to impeach the president because you don't like some administration policies ? Maybe I should dig out my copy of the constitution and see if I can find that clause...

213 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:58:46am

littleoldlady
Threads are known for being overly sensitive lol

Granny
Hello there! Excuse me, but impeachment seems overboard to me. I'm also somewhat disappointed with Bush, but impeachment is too much.
Don't you toe the kosak revanchist line, please ;)

Mike
Hello there, friend!

214 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:59:32am

Hello everyone!

I appreciate #188 zombie's post. Good reflections.

Whatever President Bush has done or is doing or not doing, it's difficult to be too certain if it's good or bad....not enough information, imho.

One thing that he does NOT do well is communicate.

Just sayin'

215 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:01:30am

geettingby
Hello!
Yeah, no Gipper here, for sure, unfortunately.

216 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:03:42am
217 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:10:00am

Epa, Miguel.

218 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:11:14am

savage
Hello there, bro!
You can copy this and save it: ¡
;)

219 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:15:17am

MigueldowninMexico

Hello to you, too! Good to see you here.

Yes, indeed, he's no Gipper!

And I'm pretty darned sure we can't impeach a President for poor communication skills! LOL

What's this I read/hear about our Miss America being heckled at the Miss Universe Pageant? ;)

220 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:16:27am
221 galloping granny  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:18:35am
#213 MigueldowninMexico 5/29/2007 2:58:46 am PDT

littleoldlady
Threads are known for being overly sensitive lol

Granny
Hello there! Excuse me, but impeachment seems overboard to me. I'm also somewhat disappointed with Bush, but impeachment is too much.
Don't you toe the kosak revanchist line, please ;)

Mike
Hello there, friend!

Note I did say "almost" Miguel :) Like I said, impeaching Bush would not get rid of the real problems that are gumming up the works - Condi, "Homeland Security" etc. & so forth. Bush is not the problem per se, other than the fact that he seems to have surrendered control of the government and refuses to defend either his administration or our borders. It is all the people who have ridden in on his coat tails, that tail wagging the dog.

222 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:19:48am

gettingby
Anti Americanism is showing more and more here in Mexico. Blame it on your MSM that has been pounding the Mexican people via our MSM how bad the USA is, and what a horrible satanic government you have, and oh all those poor arab victims of the Empire and so on and so forth.
As the Mexican media relies on the American counterpart for news about the USA and for interviews with "intellectuals" from the US or Europe, the image is getting preety tarnished.
Thus, the heckling.
OTOH most Mexicans don't have ill feelings about the States, it's a sort of super-imposed set of mind.

223 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:23:13am

savage
No you got it! LOL
¡Qué bueno!

224 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:24:51am

gettingby
And the presenter (the woman) says: "Uno momento", when the correct way is "Un momento".
That also makes Mexicans mad, that some idiot can not learn TWO words correctly.
That was more fuel to the fire.

225 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:27:26am
226 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:28:15am

granny
Ok, dear, that "almost" word sure went under the radar for me, sorry.
You're right about his own people being a liability, and add to that his enemies.
I actually feel sorry for GWB.

227 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:30:04am

MigueldowninMexico

Thanks for your input, very insightful.

Good catch, obviously, on the un momento. I didn't notice that (and my Spanish is poor, at best!). Perhaps that created the boos which just then kept on because it was Miss America.

/I'll never understand diplomacy though I try.:(

littleoldlady

Glad to see you, too. Does the fun continue? LOL

228 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:30:50am

savage
Now get a hold of the Ñ and ñ lol ;)

229 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:33:47am
230 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:34:18am

gettingby
As long as there's chocolate available, littleoldlady can cope with anything LOL

231 cargocultist  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:34:47am

The USA should never even consider diplomatic relations with Iran! PERIOD! Who could ever even consider it after what they did? I have given up on the Bush administration. That does not mean I would ever vote for progressives or Democrats, but the Bush administration has lost its way. Yeah, I'm a neocon and proud of it. What a strange world we live in.

232 galloping granny  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:34:52am
#212 Mike C. 5/29/2007 2:52:10 am PDT

You want to impeach the president because you don't like some administration policies ? Maybe I should dig out my copy of the constitution and see if I can find that clause...


Let me make it easy for you Mike C. Here is a respectable link to a discussion of impeachment - [Link: www.u-s-history.com...]

About the middle of the page you will find -


The Constitution also makes reference to those offenses deemed to be impeachable:

Article II, Section 4

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Treason and bribery are usually clearly understood concepts, but "high crimes and misdemeanors" are open to a wide latitude of interpretation. Some constitutional scholars have argued that only criminal offenses meet that standard, but others have maintained that a simple breach of the public trust is sufficient.

As I pointed out to Miguel, it is not so much Bush that I would impeach anyway - that still leaves us with Chertoff & Condi and the rest of the dog wagging tail. However, it is no longer just a "few policies" I don't like -

1. Piss-poor performance on "homeland security" - the phrase makes us sound like Nazi Germany or Communist Russia, BTW. Borders are sieves and all the rest is theater intended to calm the public rather than do anything of substance.

2. Abandonment of Israel. And we have. Certain things are no longer being sold to Israel. We are sending $ and military hardware to both Lebanon and Fatah. I hope the Israeli's are covering their own ass and getting ready to go it alone, because it is painfully obvious they cannot depend on the US government anymore.

3. Complete and total inaction at the now dozens of incidents of "leaks" that are pretty darned close to if not outright treason.

4. The screw-up in Iraq. Yes, yes - I know. I don't blame him for going in - but I do blame the current situation on the administration attempts to please everyone all the time rather than get the job done.

5. Reward of Iran with resumed diplomatic communication.

6. No action over Pelosi's visit to Syria - which combined with 5 above make me wonder if the rumours I saw whispered here and there during the visit that she was actually acting on behalf of the Bush administration have a grain of truth in them.

There has been a very silent coup - and Bush is nothing more than a figurehead these days.

233 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:35:31am

savage
Ok! Then get this as the last Spanish sign for you to have. ¿
To open questions.
;)

234 jodiegirl73  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:36:29am

Syria's Assad wins another term

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has overwhelmingly won another seven-year term of office, in a ballot in which he was the only candidate.
The interior ministry said he won the backing of more than 97% of Syria's 12 million voters in Sunday's referendum.

The ministry earlier said the turnout was enormous, but gave no figures.

"This great consensus shows the political maturity of Syria and the brilliance of our democracy," Interior Minister Bassam Abdel Majid.

The 41-year-old Mr Assad succeeded his late father, Hafez al-Assad, seven years ago.

He controls the ruling Baath Party, which took power in a coup in 1963.

Political opposition groups are banned unless they are attached the Baath Party to and emergency law is still in place.

I fell off my chair and am on the floor laffin hard at this one! If I didn't know the BBC was jihadi appeasement central, I would have thought the writer had tongue in cheek when he wrote it!

235 littleoldlady  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:37:47am

gettinby! :-)

Howdy! Define "fun".

;-)

236 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:46:11am

President Bush fought for the spending bill with no timetables. I don't agree with some of his strategies, but I don't have his information.

I only have what the MSM tells me and how they tell it.

237 galloping granny  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:51:49am
#236 goddessoftheclassroom 5/29/2007 3:46:11 am PDT

President Bush fought for the spending bill with no timetables. I don't agree with some of his strategies, but I don't have his information.

I only have what the MSM tells me and how they tell it.

Goddess, I am dumbfounded. I've never seen you as a blind supporter of anything or anyone. Apparently I was wrong - or someone is impersonating a lizard.

You have at your fingertips more information than anyone in history and nearly exactly the same information that Bush has about darned near anything - filtered only by your own eyes.

238 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:53:48am

jodiegirl
That is the apex of cynicism!
He won elections in which HE WAS THE ONLY CANDIDATE!

Not even Ripley could come out with such a weird statement. The BBC has become Idiot Central.

239 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:54:13am

#235 littleoldlady

Define "fun".

Depends on what age one is! ha ha ha

Fun for me is having the laundry finished. :0

/among other things.

#236 goddessoftheclassroom

Exactly.

240 judithet  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:57:42am

Diplomacy means that for one side to get something the other side has to get something. What are we offering Iran? We will look the other way as the Moslems attack Israel? The Kurds? Please let me be wrong.

241 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:58:14am

Ok dear lizards, time for me to hit the sack.
Good bye and God bless everybody :)

242 nonic  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:58:16am

#237 galloping granny

and nearly exactly the same information that Bush has about darned near anything

I don't believe that.

243 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:58:41am

#237 galloping granny

I don't consider myself blind, just a supporter. If I'm asked, "Do you support President Bush?" the answer is yes. If the question is, "Do you agree with all his decisions?" the answer is no.

244 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:02:10am

Good bye everyone!

Off to chores and work. Hope your day goes well.

245 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:03:27am

Off to school for me--take care, and have a great day.

246 akak  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:06:29am

Fort Dix Six hero to be revealed. cnn

/coming soon to a theatre near Islamberg no doubt

Fort Dix Six hero to be sued......and or

Fort Dix Six hero receives death threats.

Hope he gets his money, he's gonna need it.

247 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:06:56am

It's early here in Texas, but never too early to begin the daily assault on the lying goebbelists, quislings, and Islamo-Vichyites of the mainstream media.

During a network feed to our yokel NBC affiliate's morning news program, NBC's Brooke Hart, reporting from Washington, referred to President Bush giving his Memorial Day at a "graveyard for American troops" (aka Arlington National Cemetery) and said that May has been the worst month of the war for American deaths. In fact, the current fatality count, though horrible, is still far short of the 137 Americans killed in November 2004. Barring some disaster, it is not likely to catch up.

Incidentally, the local news is hosted by Sharon Maines, Natalie's aunt.

248 nonic  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:08:41am

#232 galloping granny

Some constitutional scholars have argued that only criminal offenses meet that standard, but others have maintained that a simple breach of the public trust is sufficient.

I'm going only by your excerpt above, but "simple breach of the public trust" probably (if this was written by anybody with a legal background) is in direct contrast to "criminal offense."

In other words, an action that does not "rise to the level of" a crime, because there is no express criminal code specifically against against it, but that nonetheless is deemed quasi-criminal behavior and probably will be legislated against now that it has come to light.

There is no way that inadequate or unpopular performance is going to meet that standard.

By analogy, if you want to go after a doctor or a lawyer for "malpractice," you have to show that not just did they do a lousy job, but that they knowingly did the wrong thing, deliberately, and with malice or reckless disregard.

249 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:08:49am

When (not if) the US presses the button on the nightmare of Persia, don't you think it will be more "defensible" to say we tried, but nobody answered the door?

I'm quite sure that my opinion is in the minority, but the UN global caliphate folks are big on engaging in dialog with Satan. I gives nuance to the final decision to go ahead and truly punish those who are unabashedly evil.

250 cargocultist  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:10:03am

goddessoftheclassroom

It isn't a matter of interpretation or diplomacy. Iran took over our embassy and held our people hostage for over a year. Nothing other than a completely new Iranian government will ever atone for that. For our administration to ignore that fact is unforgivable. What are they thinking?

251 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:10:11am

#240 judithet

Diplomacy means that for one side to get something the other side has to get something. What are we offering Iran? We will look the other way as the Moslems attack Israel?


Sadly

This is EXACTLY

the case
IMO

and this too

ahh ...just read the whole blog, LOL

Good morning Lizardia

Praise the LORD and pass the ammo mah Lizardim.

252 Roger  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:11:14am

I really think Iran should execute all their nuclear scientists for being incompetent boobs.

253 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:11:48am

#249 really grumpy big dog Johnson

The best defense
is often a good offense.

Morning Grumpy.

254 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:12:06am

Roger, lol

255 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:13:51am

Consider the implications of determining that policy disagreement is a valid basis for impeachement. And forget the mess it would make in the distant future - just consider the current situation.

Two impeachements (Bush, Cheney) and you've just made Blinky the president of the United States. Well, okay - not really, because a vacant VP slot would be filled before (hopefully) both the president and VP could be impeached (although there's nothing I know of to prevent both cases going forward at the same time.) And bing-bang-bong, we've changed our basic form of government to a parliamentary system. Every president, regardless of party, who does not get elected with a majority of his/her party in the House of Representatives can then look forward to a bill of impeachement.

No thanks.

256 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:15:47am

Mornin' babbazee! It's good to see your shining face today.

257 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:17:08am

A note to anyone on the thread or reading who thinks we were tough talking or leveling some sort of threats with this bit of "diplomacy", you obviously did not see that limp noodle Crocker at his presser.

Like a fucking dhimmi deer in the headlights.

Not a man.

258 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:17:48am

Thanks Grumpy, good to see yours too!

259 badsysop  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:19:02am

I have decided that most politicians are so far removed from reality that they just can't do what is right anymore.

Whether it is a left wing idiot like John Kerry who sucks up to Green Bay Packers fans by calling the stadium "Lambert field" or Bush who doesn't even begin to understand what the illegal immigrant flood has done to our cities.

These people are removed from the rest of us and are hardly "common men". I suppose the House has normal people as well as a FEW Senators.

Remember when Bush I was blown away by grocery store scanners?

I have no idea why Bush acts the way he does. I have no idea how lefties think Hugo Chavez is a wonderful person.

All I can say is, our politicians have lost their way.

We even have local politicans addressing the war in Iraq with stupid votes that mean absolutely nothing.

Government is broken from the top down.

260 Carl in Jerusalem  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:20:25am
261 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:21:48am

Exactly how long ago was it that Sandy Berger shoved those documents down his pants at the LOC?

And it took this long for him to lose his law license? Unreal.

The guy should be serving 15-40 in a federal pen.

262 bobbyjoe  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:24:17am

Was it Churchill who said Jaw jaw is better than war war?

263 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:24:32am

#260 Carl in Jerusalem

"Palestinian' child abuse - kids imitate Nasrallah and Yassin"

A rousing game of "missiles and wheelchairs"?

264 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:25:50am

Grumpy

It's things like that that give me great pause too - why did the Bush Administration not seize on that (and a million other things perpetrated by the dems during this term) and make sure it happened?

COMPLICIOTS (complicit idiots)
is the only conclusion I can draw

The Republiwhores are turning out to be Dhimmicrats in Conservative clothing

And the Dhimmicrats are freaking Commislamists.


/Check the ammo lockers,
we are on our own.

265 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:26:19am

Boker Tov Carl.

266 littleoldlady  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:26:48am
Remember when Bush I was blown away by grocery store scanners?

I remember that was THE reason I voted against him.

267 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:27:12am

Nasrallah will be 47 in the same month that I'm a decade older. I used to wonder why I am still alive. I'm more occupied these days in wondering why people like Hassan Nasrallah are still alive.

Good genes? I don't think so.

268 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:28:30am

Lil'Ol Lady, LOL!

I could not STAND Bush I
He gave me a huge case of the heebie jeebies

269 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:30:16am

# 266 littleoldlady

I remember that was THE reason I voted against him.

Boy, THAT worked out well.

270 galloping granny  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:32:36am
#248 nonic

By analogy, if you want to go after a doctor or a lawyer for "malpractice," you have to show that not just did they do a lousy job, but that they knowingly did the wrong thing, deliberately, and with malice or reckless disregard.

I can't speak to what it takes to go after a lawyer for malpractice, but I do know about medicine. You do not have to make any showing of malice or recklessness or knowledge of doing the wrong thing to go after a medical practitioner for malpractice - just that their treatment caused harm. (Note that this does not mean that you can sue because the treatment does not work.)

271 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:34:24am

#264 Babba Zee

My tin-foilish friend Ben is sure the Bush administration is covering up the Clintons' numerous arkancides and other assasinations (Vince Foster, Ron Brown, and a cast of thousands).

I thought this was one of the nuttiest ideas in recent years when I first heard of it, but at this point I am almost ready to entertain it myself.

Almost

I will never join Natalie Maines in professing shame that Bush is from Texas, however.
LBJ and other ultra-sleazy Texas Rodents used up my entire lifetime supply of native-state political shame many years ago.

272 hayseed  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:35:27am

Good Morning All.....an interesting fact from the sunni board.5/29/1453 the conquest of Constantinople. now they are crying


-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------

"Ya Allah,,,, rise up on Ummati Mulslima ,,,, what was once our pride has now become our distruction,,,,,,,

My heart cries for these ancient cities to be restored with the Islamic dignity that it once had"

what are these people thinking.

273 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:35:33am

Very salient BabbaZee.

While no supportable defense for the concept of a perpetual motion machine has ever been made, the Legislative and Executive branches have been busy in the effort to provide an unassailable postulate that the inverse is not only possible, but their favored course of inaction.

Don't wait, you might grow cobwebs.

274 galloping granny  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:38:41am
#242 nonic 5/29/2007 3:58:16 am PDT

#237 galloping granny

and nearly exactly the same information that Bush has about darned near anything

I don't believe that.

Nonic, information is a commodity and it is nearly all online somewhere, accessible by someone. Much of it is accessible by virtually anyone if you know how to look for what you want.

Bush reads the same newspapers you do - actually what he gets is a summary prepared by someone else. As far as other stuff goes, he gets what his national security adviser tells him. As we have seen, there is darned little in the way of "national security" secrets that doesn't make the papers these days. Not to mention you can also read the other guy's stuff courtesy of a couple of dozen search engines and translation engines, just like they do at the CIA.

Is there some stuff he knows that you don't or can't know? Maybe - but not all that much anymore.

275 littleoldlady  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:41:30am

#269 Mikey,

Yeah. And since I can see into the future let me inform you right now that I will be winning the Powerball tomorrow night.

At the time (pre 9-11) I could not justify voting for someone who didn't have a clue as to how I lived and what my concerns were. I KNEW Bush didn't; Clinton was unknown.

Obviously, nothing has changed. It's like badsysop (#259) said.

276 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:42:07am

#271 Shiplord Kirel

I'm almost there with you, LOL

Political shame is interesting, I have many friends who have been wroth with me because of "political shame"..

IOW

They will not look at the facts because they voted for Bush and the concept of being "wrong" is just too much for them...

I get all sorts of 4 page explanations of how it's all smoke and mirrors and there's some grand Republican plan behind it all to save us...

WAKE UP.

I voted for him too, I believed he understood the threat (especially because of the strength of faith he professed which was a I believe was a total lie at this point too)
I believed he would protect us too, I LIKED him I supported him and
I was wrong too.

Doesn't help, they just can't cop to it.

Right wing moonbatism....
conservative cognitive dissonance....

It's everywhere these days.

277 MandyManners  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:42:57am

267 rgbdj

Ya Nasrallah!

278 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:43:33am

#273 really grumpy big dog Johnson

GOD I love it when you are literary.

You really should write.

279 MandyManners  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:44:14am

Good morning, Lizards!

280 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:46:22am

Shalom Hayseed.

I hope you were wearing your hip waders in there.

281 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:46:43am

YO Mandy.

282 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:46:50am

Completely off topic

As though we didn't have enough problems with Mexican illegals and yankee carpetbaggers, Lubbock has been invaded by (o)possums. These creatures not known to be native to this area.
I almost stepped on one of the varmints while I was taking the trash out the other night. It was sprawled out flat in the middle of the path, literally "playing 'possum." I walked right up to it and it didn't so much as twitch, but its beady little eyes followed the flashlight beam. It was gone when I got back from the alley. Then last night I spotted a big one scampering down a culvert while I was driving near my parents' house. I've heard of several other sightings of 'possums in recent weeks.
I might see if I can find Granny Clampett's recipes somewhere on the net.

283 MandyManners  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:47:52am

Pres. Bush is gonna' say something about Darfur in a few minutes.

285 v the k  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:49:23am

I heard this theory floated on Bill Bennett's show. Bush thinks a Democrat administration would be a disaster in the war on terror. By conceding in Iraq and opening negotiations with Iran, he hopes to make a Republican successor more likely.

This theory is undercut by the fact that his Amnesty plan virtually guarantees the destruction of the Republican party,

286 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:50:21am

Babbadear,

I believed he would protect us too, I LIKED him I supported him and
I was wrong too.

You don't really worry about being protected do you? If you can hit a Whitetail with a bow, you can hit a Ye-had guy.

I voted for him too, I believed he understood the threat (especially because of the strength of faith he professed which was a I believe was a total lie at this point too

)

It seems many posting on this thread have lost "Faith" in God (if they ever truly had it), and somehow believe that PRESIDENT Bush is responsible for everything that happened before,during and after his presidency in this world. I don't see how his personal FAITH has changed.

287 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:50:38am

Babba, you don't know that I don't. But thank you!

When the day comes, the blood will pour from the words.

288 hayseed  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:51:25am

#280 Babbazee....I posted the hamas video on there for translation.so far no one is touching it,but it's still on the translation thread. I really hope some one there will translate the lyrics for me.

289 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:52:28am

# 275 littleoldlady

Oh, don't get me wrong. I voted for Carter in 76 because of Dole's rabid attack dog performance in the VP debate. Oops. So I have no crystal ball, either. But I was simply flabbergasted at how quickly the electorate forgot that Bush stood up when it was necessary and did what needed to be done.

With my own two eyes, I saw a huge parade of Arabs going down the Corniche in Doha, Qatar, waving AMERICAN flags and shouting "USA ! USA!" The only other thing I've ever seen in my life that seemed more science fiction than that sight was the scenes on TV of the Berlin Wall coming down.

I fully expect that next year, I am going to have to go into that voting booth and hold my nose when I "pull the lever." Just like it has always been and always will be. But I'll try and make my best guess at the long term, hold my nose, and pull it. Hope I get it right.

290 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:52:33am

Shiplord

I hate possums....

And I do not hate any other animal except hyenas, thank GOD I don't have to see those hounds from hell in my yard!

Possums are among the UG-LEEst creatures on the planet and they give me the megacreeps.

Sure sign of the apocalypse, LOL:

THOU SHALT BE OVERRUN WITH UGLY OPOSSUMAGE!

291 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:53:12am

Shiplord Kirel,

It was sprawled out flat in the middle of the path, literally "playing 'possum."

FYI they actually faint when scared. Very interesting creatures, them there Virginia Possums.

292 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:53:31am

#288 hayseed
Even if they do you can not necessarily believe their translation.

293 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:53:43am

Mandy

Nasrallah coupled with world beat music in video is simply brilliant. Kudos to the creator of that poignant celebration of his present afterlife.

He's been a dead man walking for how long now?

294 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:55:43am

#287 really grumpy big dog Johnson

Absolutely right, I don't know that you don't...

But I do know that if you don't you absolutely should.

When the day comes, the blood will pour from the words.

OK..cut it out now,
you're turning me on, LOL!

295 hayseed  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:56:26am

just thinking,maybe charles could come up with some easy to use translation thingy here. both written and verbal would be nice. I mean he can do alot of neet stuff, so whats a translator computer thingy take to program?

296 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:56:27am

Speaking of oppossums, food is guud.

Don't get me started on raccoons, however.

297 PatrickHenryLives  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:57:48am

Mea Culpa. I liked and supported him, too. And I was wrong. W should get down on his knees every night and thank God for Jimmy Carter, who is the only reason W won't be regarded as the worst U.S. President in modern history.

298 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:57:51am

290 BabbaZee

"Possums are among the UG-LEEst creatures on the planet and they give me the megacreeps."

I know what you mean. Their scraggly hair and hairless tails make them look like they have mange, or perhaps radiation poisoning.
The infestation is pretty widespread too. For those who know Lubbock (and a few lizardoids do), I live in the Tech Terrace neighborhood while the folks live about 3 miles away in Quaker Heights.

299 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:59:24am

Now playing...

"De Luan, De Mairt", from "Bring Yer Wellies" by Gaelic Storm.

Heh.

300 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 4:59:53am

#286 Widow'smight

You can see the lie in his faith from just one demonstration of his recent behavior but I have MANY points of reference regarding this aspect... I have been paying very close attention to his words and deeds.

I don't see how his personal FAITH has changed.

A committed Christian who is following the Word of GOD would NEVER throw Israel under a bus.

His faith is a pay per view traveling tent act.

And anyone who has let this make them "lose their faith in GOD" never had it in the first place, and anyone who thinks one man is responsible for everything is a fool.

301 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:00:45am

Babba,

It's getting hot in here.

302 littleoldlady  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:01:18am

Mikey,

I fully expect that next year, I am going to have to go into that voting booth and hold my nose when I "pull the lever." Just like it has always been and always will be. But I'll try and make my best guess at the long term, hold my nose, and pull it. Hope I get it right.

I am so, so very weary of it.

/plus my nose hurts from holding it so hard.

303 MandyManners  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:01:37am
304 jim in virginia  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:02:14am

If we're doing true political confessions, I voted for Ron Paul in multiple Congressioanal elections. I was young and foolish.
OT- can anyone 'splain what the heck is happening in Gaza, Israel, Lebann? I get the details- rockets at Sderot, IDF air strikes and "limited ground incursions", Lebanese army fighting Islamists in Tripoli. I don't see a big picture. MSM is pretty much ignoring this, like it is just same old same old. Maybe it is, but somehow I doubt that.

305 looking closely  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:02:49am
Prediction: nothing good will come of this.

I see a small silver lining.

Talks will reduce the price of oil (albeit temporarily), adding pressure Iran's mounting economic problems.

306 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:03:03am

#296 really grumpy big dog Johnson

I am only willing to eat possum under extreme circumstances, and an exorcism must be performed over the carcass prior to cooking, LOL

I am sure it is tasty, everyone who has eaten it tells me this.


I don't know anyone who has ever eaten a raccoon.

307 Yank in the EU  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:03:46am

#188 zombie

I would pretty much agree with these comments. Until I know exactly the nature of these discussions with Iran, I'm not going to enter into the phrenetic, apocalyptic mindset, which has strangely become trendy with frequent statements that "Iraq is lost" etc. I'm reminded of the extensive diplomacy that Reagan engaged in with the Evil Empire or some of the strategic blunders he made in dealing with Islamism. What mattered was that he kept his determination to win and escalate the current battle, which is the one thing I will credit President Bush with right now, which is actually of major importance considering the effect of surrendering and giving into the pressure of so many on the left and right.

308 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:05:17am

#304 jim in virginia

It's almost too twangly to explain.

It is not business as usual at all.

Read at Carl's blog he is following this very well.

309 V the K  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:06:42am

Unlike many here, I never liked Bush. I only voted for him because in 2000 the alternative was marginally worse, and in 2004 the alternative was profoundly worse.

Barring any major shake-ups, I'm out in 2008. Hillary and Rudy are even less of a choice than Bush and Gore.

310 Roger  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:07:23am

#283 MandyManners

Economic sanctions against Sudan.

311 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:08:03am

RE # 307 Yank in the EU

Ah, a ray of light again.

How's the thesis going ?

312 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:10:04am

#307 Yank in the EU

Until I know exactly the nature of these discussions with Iran

Exactly the nature of the discussions is known.
Read the posts at my Blog on Iran, Israel and the Baker Plan.

Google Crocker Iran and Trilateral Mechanism.

Even if you had only seen the press conference with this Crocker and had no further information you would be
far less prone to thinking there's some grand master plan behind this craven show of idiotic dhimmitude.


And to add insult to injury

ON MEMORIAL DAY WE MEET WITH THE ENEMY ?



I can't GET more disgusted.

313 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:10:50am

A ray of wishful thinking.

314 Jim in Virginia  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:11:52am

First diplomatic talks in 30 years and...
Iran formally charges three Americans with spying.
The Iranian government is even more divided than the US.
I'm off to work lizards, stay safe.

315 MandyManners  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:11:53am

Khat invading America?

I wonder what are the names of the three arrested men.

316 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:11:58am

# 309 V the K

To not vote is just as much of an action as voting one way or the other. Weigh the consequences.

317 Yank in the EU  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:12:33am

#311 Mike C.

Couldn't be better. Just about to finish Part II and go on holiday for a few weeks?

How about yourself?

318 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:14:53am

#309 V the K

It was him on the rubble with the megaphone that got me.

I will never make that sort of emotional mistake
either intellectually or politically again no matter what comes now.

I'm a NYer. I know people who died. My sister worked in the building directly across the street at the time and for hours I did not know where she was, she used to go into the towers every morning and get her coffee, cigarettes, etc.

I walked around in a fucking trance for months after 9/11.

Those were extremely volatile and vulnerable moments for me.

He got me.

Never Again.

320 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:17:26am

Babbazee,

A committed Christian who is following the Word of GOD would NEVER throw Israel under a bus.

His faith is a pay per view traveling tent act.

Israel's leaders and their media have thrown themselves under the bus, not this president. President Bush can't force them to treat their enemies as enemies.

One's faith is an internal thing, not to be disected by others who know little about them.

I must go take my daughter to the Bus Stop.

Have a grand day.

321 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:17:45am

#301 really grumpy big dog Johnson

;~}


WLGF mode - song link

322 MandyManners  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:18:02am

314 Jim

I'm wondering if our diplomatic machine has cranked up to get those people out.

And, what about that former FBI agent who is STILL missing?

323 haakondahl  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:18:07am

#0 Charles

Prediction: nothing good will come of this.

Ya Think? In sailing, we'd call that a broad reach.

324 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:18:08am

BabbaZee,

I might have known some folks who have eaten it, but none who will own up to it.

I will say that one of the most atrocious things I've ever done was to kill an oppossum whose only offense was being terribly ugly, which at the time was, for some reason, terribly threatening to me.

I am still personally haunted by what I did, and what made me do it. But I guess it's better that it was an ugly animal rather than some precious kid. Sometimes we need consolation credits.

It doesn't make me feel better about it. At all. It's one of those "inhibiting factors" that make me reluctant to own a gun.

It's a good thing that I have to reach back more than a third of a century for my vision of that incident. Unfortunately, my personal rearview mirrors are equipped with Hubble-like magnification powers, and it sometimes cripples me with unexpected pain.

325 V the K  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:18:43am
To not vote is just as much of an action as voting one way or the other. Weigh the consequences.

I live in the only safe Republican district in one of the bluest states on the East Coast. The likelihood of my one vote making any difference is remote. There is no consequence to my not voting.

Besides, my vote just gets canceled out by vote fraud anyway.

326 TMF  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:18:47am

The only way I could support meeting with Iran to discuss Iraqi security would be if the meeting consisted of an ultimatum backed by a threat of military force.

327 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:18:52am

#320 Widow'smight
Ye shall know them by their words and deeds.

{Widow}

Have a good one, daddy.

328 JammieWearingFool  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:19:53am

Morning folks,

Another lovely morning here in NJ (OK, no jokes), but sadly, I'm in the office for the beginning of my truncated workweek. On the upside, it's a three-day week.

329 Roger  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:19:58am

#309 V the K

You might not be the mathematical type because of your particular genius but hear me out.

In math there are problems involving limits: take the equation:

Voter Choice ∝ 1/(GOP-Bonkeys) ∝ 1/(lesserOfTwoEvils-evil)

What do to when the margin between lesserOfTwoEvils & evil becomes minuscule? Tinier than tiny? What is the limit when lesserOfTwoEvils≅evil?

332 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:22:13am

# 317 Yank in the EU

Sounds good. I'm on a break myself, and a badly needed one at that. Have to go back, but for now, I'm enjoying a brief respite in civilization. I think I'm going to go out and buy out the entire vegetable section at my grocery store. Then I'll hit the meat counter. After that, I'll just drive around to look at what civilization looks like. Warts and all.

333 chief long name  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:22:24am

I'm going back to my history books. All ya'alls talk of the present is depressing me.

Mornin' {BabbaZee}!
BBIAW

334 Yank in the EU  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:22:37am

#312 BabbaZee

I went to your site and, maybe I am missing it, but I don't see clear evidence of exactly what the intentions are. It does not follow that since James Baker recommends talks and concessions by Israel, and we held diplomatic talks with Iran, that he is now the puppetmaster of the Bush Administration. Diplomacy can meaning anything - it can include a surrender or a threat. I noticed our Navy is taking positions near Iranian water at the moment. Anyway, I think we are going to hold talks to acheive certain purposes or functions, regardless of whether it is Bush, the ideal anti-dhimmi, or anyone else. Now, if we made them a weak or crappy offer, then I will join you.

335 Yank in the EU  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:23:40am

BBL - gotta get some chow.

336 TMF  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:24:24am

#261 really grumpy

Berger voluntarily gave up the law license to avoid another investigation by the Bar into his misconduct in connection with disbarment proceedings.

DOJ let him cut a plea deal on the federal charges, but the bar proceedings would have again opened him up to questioning, investigation, etc.

He REALLY doesnt want anyone to talk about what he did for some reason.


Wonder why....

337 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:24:55am

#324 {really grumpy big dog Johnson}

I understand.

When I was about 9, I once pushed a boy away from me, hard, on the stairwell at school for no other reason than he liked me too much and was following me around all the time and annoying me.

He fell, cracked his skull on the concrete stairs, and was seriously injured.

I can still see his head and the blood.

I get sick to this day thinking of it, I can feel it now typing this to you.

I know what precisely you mean.

338 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:25:50am

I frequently get blasted at LGF for my growing contempt for the Bush presidency. Nice to see Charles is also growing increasingly impatient with all of the Republican bumbling going on. Bush lost me more than a year ago - and even that recognition was too late in coming. A man who insists a nation is in an existential fight for its way of life, yet does nothing to secure that nation's borders is not a man I want leading/defending my country. Bush can't go soon enough.

339 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:26:27am

Yank

You'd have to spend a whole helluva lot more time reading those articles than you just did to understand what I am saying.

340 gozza  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:26:37am

G'day from Melbourne Aus.

We have just as big a problem here in Australia.

Our federal election is in December this year and John Howard's conservative goverment is 20% down in the polls. Yes 20% down. There is no possibility of a comeback. We`re f'd.

What`s even worse, our political parties are a step to the left of the US parties. Our "conservatives" (the Liberal Party) are closer to your Democraps in general policies, while our opposition left party - The Labour Party is closer to a socialist party than anything you have.

While Fwance, Canada have turned to the right, it looks like you guys are gonna lose Australia in Dec this year....

341 TMF  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:27:40am

Babba-Zee

No offense, but Im uncomfortable taking the Iranians word for what was said or not said, and their spin on the talks.

They are as reliable as the NY Times.

342 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:29:13am

# 323 haak

I shoulda known you were a sailor.

# 324 r g b d J

I stopped being angry with and shooting at animals decades ago (although our effing cat puts me to the test every day I'm here.) But there's no reason you can't still enjoy a weekend slaughtering a ream of paper targets for fun.

# 325 V the K

Well, don't winge if everything goes south then.

343 TMF  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:29:39am

#341 cont.

In the muslim world- there is a large gap between rhetoric and action.

Well see if Iranian involvement in/support of insurgent activity in Iraq is halted after these talks.

344 V the K  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:30:33am
What do to when the margin between lesserOfTwoEvils & evil becomes minuscule? Tinier than tiny? What is the limit when lesserOfTwoEvils≅evil?

A. We get John McCain running against Hillary Clinton.

345 MandyManners  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:31:32am

Maybe it's my inner Little Mary Fucking Sunshine but, I'm not ready to condemn Pres. Bush for opening up another front against Iran.

346 TMF  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:36:33am

#166

Iran invaded Iraq in the 80s.

Iran obviously has no problem with IRaq being invaded, unless it is someone else doing it.

You are a moron.

347 Roger  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:39:07am

#334 Yank in the EU

After a while positioning the US navy on the map becomes laughable when the support from Americans is in disarray and askance because the US Admin isn't communicating with and addressing us on a whole slew of questions/issues we have. The Iranians know the climate in America is such that there is no way Americans are going wake up some morning to the news the US navy began a pounding campaign on Iran. It doesn't work that way with a Democrat majority in the Congress. Many of us wonder if we would be rebuilding and constructing another islamic republic of Iran.

348 littleoldlady  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:39:21am
Maybe it's my inner Little Mary Fucking Sunshine but, I'm not ready to condemn Pres. Bush for opening up another front against Iran.

Does it work well? You should bottle it and sell it on the internet...

349 swamprat  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:39:58am

Talk softly=Diplomacy..................Carry a big stick=Naval maneuvers

350 MandyManners  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:40:53am
351 TMF  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:42:06am

#346 cont.

Your analogy would make more sense if Canada and/or Mexico were ruled by brutal dictators who actively support and promote islamic jihad, have possessed and continue to develop WMDs, attempted to assassinate a US president, and flaunted dozens of UN resolutions calling on them to abandon illegal weapons programs.

Oh, yeah, and if the mullahs were democratically elected, with a profound concern for human rights and desire to avoid unnecessary civilian casualties.

Yes, then your analogy would be brilliant.

As it stands, you are a moron.

352 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:42:23am

If J McC ends up running against the Hill, I may just flip a coin.

Thanks babbazee and mike c.

Wallowing in self-depreciation serves no useful purpose.

353 vxbush  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:42:41am

Morning, everyone. It's a glorious VACATION DAY! Yes, folks, I'm going to gloat at my week of vacation.

However, the gloating must be quite limited, as I am only visiting family; no great vacation destination for me, although seeing my daughter is a great reward.

I think I'll be on in the mornings as usual, but that's because if I don't get up at my usual time, I won't be able to get up on time for work when I actually have to go to work again.

Having a sleeping disorder can be a cruel, cruel joke.

354 MandyManners  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:43:00am

348 littleoldlady

I don't know if it would help others but, it helps get me through some really crappy situations.

355 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:43:05am

# 346 TMF

Uh, you might want to go back and re-read some history. Iraq invaded Iran.

356 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:44:35am

#333 chief long name
{CLN!}

357 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:46:08am

Now playing...

"Rant and Rave" by 'Great Big Sea.'

358 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:47:32am

Good Morning Y'all from a warm (64 degrees, going up to 90 degrees)sunny Charlotte!
Hope Y'all are doing well today!

359 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:48:25am

#341 TMF

When the threaten and
dictate you can safely take that as threatening and dictating.

This is all they have been doing.... threatening and dictating

When Hitler said he was going to make the world Judenrein almost no one took him at his word either before the storm.

Obviously they should have.

360 vxbush  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:48:55am

Morning, realwest. Did 3 wood report in on your game for today? (I'm being lazy and not scrolling up. I'm on vacation!)

361 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:50:03am

Oh, and BTW, Beachlover wanted y'all to know that the reason she hasn't been around is she's on a week long vacation at (where else?) the Beach! LOL!
Anyway, she misses y'all and will be posting again when she returns!

362 vxbush  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:50:10am

BZ

Preach it, sister. My level of concern has jumped at least two notches over the weekend.

363 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:51:27am

#360 vxbush - Morning back atcha! I, um, don't know if 3-wood reported back yet, but IIRC, I played a Hell of a Game! LOL!
How are you this morning?

364 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:52:24am

Morning VX

I have only about 20 more minutes here and then I have to report to work in Spleencinatti.

My boss is a real bitch.

LOL!

365 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:52:44am

YO REAL!

366 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:52:44am

YO BABBA! How you doing this fine morning? I'm doing ok and...wait, Mom just called that brekkie is ready, I'll BBIAM!

367 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:53:55am

Real , LOL
same time and date and even second on those 2 YO posts.

368 TMF  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:54:13am

359 Babba Zee

As a close follower of the palestinians, you would know more than anyone that "threats" and "dictates" coming from arabs/muslims in the ME should always be taken with a grain of kosher salt.


I thought the death of Sheik Yasin was going to "open the gates of hell" and bring about the destruction of Israel?

369 selpaw  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:55:14am

Thank you for reporting this Charles.

It will take a firestorm to turn things around.

370 MandyManners  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:55:37am

Gotta' go get the kid ready for basketball camp. Ya'll have a great morning!

371 vxbush  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:55:42am

363 realwest

Not bad. Staying at a relative's house can sometimes be tough, but one of our relatives has a place where the downstairs is used for a business and we can stay upstairs. It works out really great. I don't feel like I'm sitting in someone's seat, the hubby and I get to be alone and not surrounded by people constantly (we're partly hermits), and yet we're close enough to see everyone.

At this point, we don't have many plans for the week. The daughter has made a request, I have a request of her, but that's pretty much it this week.

I foresee a lot of boring lounging reading a favorite book, outside on the patio. I have a tough life.

372 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:55:45am

TMF

We are talking the President of Iran here, not the "spiritual leader" of a non-state(yet) terrorist group.

373 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:56:08am

SELPAW!

374 vxbush  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:56:57am

BZ

Yes, that taskmaster doesn't take no for an answer, does she? :D

375 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:58:21am

VX... LOL

Not too often!

376 Roger  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:58:37am

#368 TMF

not a good idea. remember '67, etc.?

377 TMF  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:59:11am

Babba 372

YOu will recall the (former) President of Iraq used to routinely make threats about "annihilating the invading forces" etc.

Didnt quite pan out that way

378 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:59:17am

Bye Mandy don't shoot anyone on the road

379 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 5:59:19am

Holy effing crap.

WARNING - not suitable for those with cardiac conditions or high blood pressure problems.

380 odhran  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:00:29am

This is what DC does do people. This is why the Senate is so f---ed up, the House, State Dept, CIA and on and on....

We need term limits for everyone, maybe even the POTUS. Maybe make the POTUS 5 years to compensate.

On a side note, it seems that every country in the world is much more patient than we are, and has a much longer memory.

382 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:02:00am

TMF

It seems to me that at this moment
I am completely convinced of what I am seeing here, and you are not, which is fine.

Let's watch how it all develops and come back to it and discuss again in a few weeks.

383 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:03:34am

Yank and Widow when you return

#382 to both of you as well.

384 lawhawk  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:04:04am

Greets and saluts. So the US diplomats think that jawboning with Iran will produce results.

Was this what they had in mind?

Iran's charging three Iranian-Americans with espionage.

Azima, who works for the U.S.-funded Radio Farda, was detained but released and barred from leaving the country. It was the first time the government has confirmed the arrest of Tajbakhsh, who was believed to have been taken into custody around May 11, according to George Soros' Open Society Institute.

Laura Silber, a spokeswoman for Soros' Open Society Institute in New York said the organization was "dismayed at the charges" against Tajbakhsh, an "internationally respected scholar."

"The charges are completely without merit," Silber told The Associated Press by telephone. "We are very concerned for Dr. Tajkbakhsh's safety and urge the Iranian authorities to release him immediately."

The Intelligence Ministry has accused Esfandiari and her organization of trying to set up networks of Iranians with the ultimate goal of creating a "soft revolution" in Iran, along the lines of the revolts that ended Communist rule in Eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet Union.

385 MrMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:04:45am

Good Morning all!
Gird your loins for battle. The "farmers with pitchforks" are going to have to eventually save this great nation.

386 Excaliber  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:04:54am

This whole thing is a pathetic farce .

When asked point blank if he thought Iran was involved in Iraq ...Al Maliki , refused to answer that direct question .

What's going on ?

.....whaddya think ?

I guess the next step now , is to pull the fleet back from the Iranian coast .

So we don't offend the "nice Iranians " who ........had a glass of Ice Tea with our Ambassador .


'scuse me while I go barf .


Aaaaarrrrgghhh

387 nonic  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:05:01am

#270 galloping granny

medicine. You do not have to make any showing of malice or recklessness or knowledge of doing the wrong thing to go after a medical practitioner for malpractice - just that their treatment caused harm.

That would be a standard called "strict liability." Responbility for harm regardless of culpability. Usually applied only in cases involving high explosives and wild animals.

388 akak  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:06:00am

jim in virginia

check out Walid Phares re Lebanon....

[Link: counterterrorismblog.org...]

389 hayseed  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:06:04am

#358 realwest...my neighbor was just up for the weekend from Charlotte. he works for BASF there.they closed the plant here so he had to move to Charlotte to get his last few years in for retirement. I don't think he really likes it there.lol

390 Yank in the EU  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:06:26am

#332 Mike C.

Well, at least you'll have some more time for posting, as will I.

#339 BabbaZee

I'm not getting the first MSNBC link to work - it goes to a 'related photos' page.

#347 Roger

I agree with that entirely. The American people, if we are going to continue to destroy the jihad in Iraq and Afghanistan, have to demand nothing but tough action and victory. It's amazing that even some of those we might call allies in our country constantly insist, rather, that the "Iraq war is lost" and we must pull out. That much opposition to the war against the jihadis in Iraq from those the president would count on certainly hurts our country's position in the war. I would also agree that practically no one is interested in trying to form a free, just state in Iran if we ever do take out the regime.

391 BenZacharia  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:06:52am

What? the White House farts DON"T smell like strawberries? And the piss, she no taste like champagne?

Widows Might, when it comes to dissecting faith I look at both the words and the deeds.

Bush hosts pagan iftar dinners.

Bush says "Allah is my god."

Bush has a heretical/blasphemous 'supersessionism' theology. (Didn't know this when I voted for him twice. Oops!)

Israel leaders will pay the price for what they are doing as have the Israeli people, but Bush will pay the price and so will the rest of us Americans for what he is doing.

Bush sponsors the largest expansion of socialism in who knows how long, even Clinton didn't do as much.

Managing a war in a manner that makes Lyndon Johnson look like a genius. The Johnson administration was hung up on body counts and bomb tonnage, this one is hung up on 'arrests' and 'swing set' counts.

The US military is impossible to defeat on the battlefield when it isn't blindfolded and hobbled by PC ROEs. The only standard to be employed in this war is the UCMJ, not the Geneva convention as the enemy hasn't signed it. Will casualties increase if the US starts fighting a war for real? Don't know, but our military will stop suffering needless casualties.

SUPPORT THE TROOPS, UNLEASH THE DOGS OF WAR!

Now on Memorial Day they meet with a member of the 'Axis of Evil' and say "Please stop helping the 'insurgents', pretty please?"

Now we know what the threat from the White House of "Stop the nuke program or else."

ArmaniDinnerJacket "Or else what?"

White House "Or else we'll talk to you." (Wow! Takin' straight from the UN playbook.)

On 9/11 America suffered 3,000 dead by illegal aliens, since 9/11 the body count in the US by illegal aliens is 45,000 and growing by 12 everyday. Feel safe? This is better how?

AND I do take issue with his party girl daughters not stepping up and joining the fight. If they only serve outside the war zones, so be it. I did my part and so have many here, they can do theirs.

392 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:07:04am

#384 lawhawk

Steam is coming out of my ears

Are you aware of this also?


Help An American Victim of the Iranian Government


Gateway Pundit reports on the imprisonment of Dr. Haleh Esfendiyari an American visiting Iran, who has been falsely accused by the tyrannical government of being a Zionist agent.

We join Gateway in urging the signing of the petition to free the innocent prisoner. We must do what we can to spread the word about this and other abductions.

As One Jerusalem has reported there are other American prisoners being detained by Iran that the American media has virtually ignored.

The American Government, too.

Rice Confirms Talks With Iran
Monday, May 14, 2007

See the end of this post for this quote with the live links

393 lawhawk  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:07:09am

#381 carl in jerusalem:

I think we need a ceasefire from all these ceasefires. There's quite a bit of flack coming from the diplomats that could be averted simply by shutting them up.

394 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:08:17am

#390 Yank in the EU

I have too many posts now to know exactly what /where you are referring to

give me the link and I will fix it

thanks

395 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:10:09am

#385 MrMom

yep.

I gotta go
but I'll peek back every 15 minutes or so !

LOL

396 vxbush  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:10:48am

391 BenZ

I know what you mean. I keep waiting for the strong Bush of 9/11 to return. I haven't seen him doing that. When I heard the rumor that Iran was going to be invaded or bombed, I really honestly hoped it was true, because it meant that Bush still had backbone.

I still think Bush was the better choice over the Democratic candidates for each election, but that doesn't mean he couldn't do a better job. But it's a very tough job; I can't say that I would do a good job.

397 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:13:00am

Yank in the EU

Well, actually, I should get off my ass and accompish something useful, rather than sitting here at the 'puter. But I just came off 42 work days in a row, and the CD player is right here, so I'm temporarilly being bad.

398 Yank in the EU  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:14:47am

#394 BabbaZee

Sure, this is the link that is there: [Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

From your top entry, about "Broad Agreement", just above "U.S. envoy says Iran must end support for militants."

399 nonic  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:16:55am

#290 Babba
Shiplord

Possums are among the UG-LEEst creatures on the planet and they give me the megacreeps.

Oh, they are UGLY. Loathe them. It's the tail, I think. That bare, pink, thick tail. SO creepy.

I don't know that they are any more harmful than raccoons. Maybe even less so. But raccoons are cute.

400 hayseed  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:21:14am

#399 nonic...ask my neighbor about how cute racoons are. she just caught a 35 pounder, it ripped the vents out of the top of her house. she is pissed!

401 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:22:11am

Weak Tropical Cyclone to save Atlanta from Poor Air Quality?

0Z Canadian Global says a weak disturbance forms in the Caribbean, possibly a tropical depression or weak tropical storm, just in time for the first day of hurricane season, and rains on Florida and Georgia!


The Yurpian Community model is a tad farther West, implying the heaviest rains just miss falling where needed.

But UK Met Office model right over the Florida/Georgia drought area.

All the models develop the system in the Caribbean which doesn't look all that impressive.


No worries about anything big, water is probably too cool to support even a Cat 1 hurricane

A month from now the flareup South of Louisiana would be worth watching, but the water is too cool


But if a weak tropical cyclone ends the fores in South Georgia, and all the people ofg ATL can jog and BBQ w/o the risk of emphysema, isn't that a good thing?

402 lucius septimius  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:26:00am

# 399 Nonic et.al.

What about this possum? And I've always sort of been a fan of this possum.

As for the rat-tailed kind, I agree they're pretty nasty. We occasionally have big ones in the back yard, but they are not nearly so bad as the raccoons.

403 Kulhwch  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:27:57am

    OT time ... and holy deja vu, Brits have been kidnapped again!  Wait for the "No, duh!" moment:

Britons feared kidnapped in Baghdad

The Foreign Office was "urgently" looking into reports that four British security guards are among seven Westerners kidnapped in Iraq.

...

The BBC later reported that five Britons were among those kidnapped from the finance ministry, but other reports did not mention the nationality of the guards.

Working as a security guard in the war-torn country is a lucrative job that can earn employees hundreds of pounds a day.

But the job brings with it a high degree of risk in a capital city where lawlessness and violence are commonplace.

    And Serendippity is working overtime, because this article also comes out now, with a similar "No duh!" moment:

Private guards a weak link in security

WASHINGTON - Legions of ill-trained, low-paid private security guards are protecting tempting terrorist targets across the U.S.

Richard Bergendahl is one of them. He fights the war on terrorism in Los Angeles, protecting a high-rise office building for $19,000 a year. Down the block is an even taller skyscraper, identified by President Bush as a building chosen for a Sept. 11-style airplane attack.

The security guard industry found itself involuntarily transformed after September 2001 from an army of "rent-a-cops" to protectors of the homeland. Yet many security officers are paid little more than restaurant cooks or janitors.

"A security officer is ... not trained to be a G.I. Joe," said Paul Maniscalco, a senior research scientist at George Washington University.

    I'm torn between feeling less secure because rent-a-cops are guarding our buildings (what will they do when an airplane swoops?), and hoping they don't hire air marshalls from the same sources.  I guess I was expecting someone better who earned more than I did.  Instead, we get Barney ...

}:)     [But Andy ...]

404 Lucius Septimius  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:28:09am

# 401 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet (and where's the brigade?)

I hope you've got this one right. Between the smoke and smog and dust it's right unpleasant.

The green on pink, while preppy, doesn't contrast well for these old eyes, btw.

405 Yank in the EU  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:29:15am

#397 Mike C.

I am convinced that what allows me to work many hours per day at the computer is daily exercise, specifically an hour of swimming, and biking to the pool and back. It seems to generate heat in general and to work out the kinks. Even if I am tired after working, I never regret getting that sustained movement going.

406 swamprat  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:29:24am

380 odhran...POTUS is limited to 2 terms. That's why it's funny to watch the dems rail against Bush.

408 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:30:11am

I can't believe the rampant opossumophobia evident on this thread. It's just a critter, folks. Sheesh. If you've ever caught and held an armadillo, you know they are nothing more than an armor-plated possum.

Both are okay eating, albeit not anything I would go out of my way for.

409 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:30:21am

Morning again Y'all!

#379 Mike C. - Hiya Mike! I should taken your warning more seriously. Let's just say that the final paragraph: "So, let's end the cheap shot analogies. Bush isn't Hitler; America isn't the Third Reich. That doesn't mean the Bushies are good guys. But they're not in the same psychopathic, criminally insane league as were the Nazi elite." pretty much sums up the "thinking" over this issue; saying Bush is more akin to Franco than Hitler doesn't exactly keep my BP low, but you did warn me!
That was an excellent link Y'all and if you didn't read it you should.
Thanks Mike!

410 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:32:46am

#400 hayseed - Good morning my friend! How's your neck feeling this morning? Any better (I hope!)?

411 lawhawk  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:33:35am

#392 babbazee:

Yup. Esfendiyari and the others are being accused of being spies for the West - the US or Israel. It's the MO of the thugs in Tehran. Can't deal with opposition groups that might win hearts and minds with rational arguments against a dictatorship that wants to bring about an apocalyptic nightmare to fulfill the religious views of a madman.

412 Lucius Septimius  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:33:41am

On Topic:

At one time, and not all that long ago, Iran was key to US diplomacy in the region. From WWII until the election of the "national malaise," Iran was a pretty trustworthy ally. I remember hearing it said back in '79 that for $500 and a nice lunch in Paris we could have gotten rid of Khomeini and saved ourselves what's turned out to be 30 years of trouble. This is probably the wrong time to be talking to the wrong people in Iran, but it doesn't seem to me that it would be impossible to have Iran as an ally again if the ayatollahs were finally overthrown.

413 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:34:23am

YANK

thanks very much for alerting me to it and giving me the link

it's fixed now

but the funny thing is all day yesterday it DID go to that story....

414 nonic  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:34:35am

Mandy
littleoldlady

Maybe it's my inner Little Mary Fucking Sunshine

What is life without faith and hope and at least an effort at good cheer?

It's inevitable -- so may as well stop wasting oxygen and die now.

415 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:34:44am

# 405 Yank in the EU

I am convinced that what allows me to work many hours per day at the computer is daily exercise beer, specifically an several hours of swimming, and biking to the pool and back solid drinking. It seems to generate heat in general and to work out the kinks. Even if I am tired after working, I never regret getting that sustained movement going.

There ya go - fixed that for ya.

416 Lucius Septimius  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:36:07am

# 406 swamprat

The campaign slogan for the dems:

Who ya gonna hate
In two-thousand and eight?

417 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:37:31am

Yo, real. Effing unbelievable, ain't it ?

418 Buck  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:37:59am

#166 Tantraman

Try and remember that IRAN tried to beat Saddam and take over the Iraqi Oil feilds.

It is estimated that 700 thousand plus Iranians died (a large number of children used as cannon fodder) in that war.

The Iranians are no friend of Saddams. The US did the Iranians a favor by removing him. The leadership in Iran are NOT upset about that.

BUT you make a good point. Iraq and Afghanistan are very close to Iran. Both countries hold a lot of crack US battle hardend troops.

What would I do if I were Iran? Sit tight, and be a good boy. Build up my economy, and keep my people happy. I certainly would not poke the big guy in the ribs ever chance I got. Even if I did think he was a bully.

But hey... that is just me.

419 Yank in the EU  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:38:23am

Babba - no sweat.

Mike C. LOL!

420 hayseed  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:39:19am

#410 realwest...the meds are working today,thanks for asking. hows the gimpy hip doing?

421 hayseed  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:43:09am

Babba...hope you are feeling well today also and all the other Lizards who may need a little support for thier ailments.

422 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:43:18am

Good Morning all.

I found a new site that makes me chuckle.

Flashbunny.

423 nonic  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:44:12am

#400 hayseed

Sorry about that. But those little "masks" are sumpin' cute IMO.

424 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:44:41am

#420 hayseed

......and realwest:

Can I borrow some of you guys' "meds"....? ): Got this toothache....

425 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:44:59am

Somehow they managed to get nutria rats into Cypress Creek in Spring, Texas, and they have the nastiest looking orange teeth, and, IIRC, while not technically a rat, look like a rat in every sense, expcet larger than a house cat.

426 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:45:25am

#391 BenZacharia - Morning Ben! Hope all is well with you and yours.
That was a long and thoughtful post and although I would take exception to some of the things you've said (or at least the way you've said them) the "AND I do take issue with his party girl daughters not stepping up and joining the fight. If they only serve outside the war zones, so be it. I did my part and so have many here, they can do theirs." was a bit much. There are a whole HELL of a LOT of Americans who haven't done a damn thing to help this country along and singling out his daughters is, I think, extremely unfair.
As I've said before, except for the Troops, their families and friends, AMERICANS haven't been called upon to do ANYTHING or sacrifice anything (other than some minor inconveniences at the airport) to help in this GWoT! Bush and the newly elected congress both share the same low approval rating from the American People and I think that's due, in large part, to the fact that most Americans (excluding the obvious ones) simply haven't been engaged by this war; NOTHING has been asked of 'em and there's a sort of bizzare disconnect between the troops, families and friends, those of us out here (and other blogs) and the rest of America regarding the War in Iraq, much less the GWoT.
I don't have any answer for this. Lord knows Bush's speeches, as poorly written as many of them have been, have at least been crystal clear on why we're in Iraq and the disasterous consequences of our cutting and running. And the American public vote in Democrats (or, as I prefer to call them, the Disloyal Oppostion) to end this war in Iraq and all we get from them is cut and run or micro management of the war. NOT one positive idea from the Dems on how to WIN this war. It's as if Americans are looking for ways to LOSE this war and I think a large part of that is that disconnect aspect I mentioned before.
Sorry, rant off.

427 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:47:02am

Yank -

[insert my mouth hanging open here]

they rewrote the whole damn story! ?

Look at the one I have posted from yesterday and the one the link goes to now....

totally different - rewritten


I have to search now and see if the one I posted is still there under a different link

428 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:47:15am

RCTV Closure Protest In Conatel, Venezuela (video)

They seem pissed.

429 Joan Not of Arc  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:47:33am

It's been done with China, Vietnam and now this. The sleeping giant has aided and abetted another dictatorship.
Well, that's just great.

430 vxbush  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:48:45am

Okay, now the vacation calls in earnest. Gotta go do some stuff with the family. Later, lizards!

431 Ben Hur  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:49:23am

Boker effen Tov.

432 looking closely  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:50:27am

#274 Galloping Granny

I call BS. There is tons of information the President is privy to that doesn't make the papers. EG 98% of intelligence gathered by the CIA and NSA, for example, as well as all sorts of information gathered and communicated off the cuff.

One example (of thousands) would be the Al Queda related documents de-classified las week.

#248 nonic

By analogy, if you want to go after a doctor or a lawyer for "malpractice," you have to show that not just did they do a lousy job, but that they knowingly did the wrong thing, deliberately, and with malice or reckless disregard.


Actually this is not correct.

Malpractice, by definition, involves a breach of the standard of care. It absolutely DOES NOT require malice or reckless disregard for anything. A "lousy job" is neither necessary nor sufficient for malpractice.

I could give you examples, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

Getting back on topic, just because some people have opined that Presidential impeachment could be used as a vote of "no confidence" that doesn't make it so.

433 Dirk Diggler  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:51:31am

The last years of the President Bush's term look like they're going to be a Carteresque disaster.

I just can't fathom how such a thoughful man can be so politically tone deaf.

434 BenZacharia  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:52:06am

I remain optimistic about the Bush admin.

A pessimist is one who thinks things can't get any worse, an optimist knows better.

TTFNTM

435 Carl in Jerusalem  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:52:17am

Kahane murderer arrested (That's the murderer of Rabbi Meir Kahane HY"D's son and daughter in law).

436 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:52:28am

#420 hayseed - Glad to hear your meds are helping you some. My new meds (added to the old meds, jeebus I need two medicine cabinets! LOL!) have helped my hip pain a lot; unfortunately they also put me to sleep or make me feel "dopey" (and please, no smartass remarks from the peanut gallery) so my choices are: get along in pain and have some idea of what day it is or take the new meds, have no pain and no awareness of what the hell's going on. And, regrettably, the "dopey" feeling I get isn't a "fun" or pleasant dopiness. And they make me sleep for like hours at a time!

Now, aint y'all glad you asked? LOL!

437 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:52:31am

GOOOOD Morning...

Did you all see this?

Unhinged Wackademic Threatens Dershowitz!

438 Yank in the EU  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:52:35am

#427 BabbaZee

"I see," said the blind man.

On the plus side, your link works now!

439 The Shadow Do  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:53:22am

Opossum Talk -

When I moved to Texas a few years back, I had an experience that impressed me with what a friendly place I had come to. Went out back to fire up my grill. When I lifted the lid - there it was! Neatly laid out and motionless. Wonder if he brought the BBQ with him? Self basting BBQ dinner TX style!

Well, he did skeedadle when I popped the burner. Next time I'll leave the lid down.

440 Kenneth  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:54:47am

#400 hayseed


ask my neighbor about how cute racoons are. she just caught a 35 pounder, it ripped the vents out of the top of her house. she is pissed!

Raccoons shall inherit the earth. They can break into houses, open a fridge, steal you beer, open the cans and chug-a-lug. They have opposable thumbs and know how to hack our wireless networks. The can drive automobiles and carry major credit cards. They know how to use firearms.

There's no stopping raccoons. If you don't believe me, read this:

Nazi Raccoons on the March in Europe

441 Lucius Septimius  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:55:23am

BabbaZee

From down the way on your site:

We are hopeful that Washington’s realistic approach to the current issues of Iraq by confessing its failed policy in Iraq and the region and by showing a determination to changing the policy guarantees success of the talks and possible further talks

Of "changing policy" would have to mean abandoning Israel. One key point of our relations with the Shah was his recognition of Israel. Wonder if there is anyone in the current Iranian regime who'd be willing to do that. Not likely, methinks.

As for the ambassador, he's obviously gone native.

442 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:56:04am

#424 Ma Sands - Sorry you feel the need for Meds today, sure hope it's just something that's just passing through, so to speak! Trust me, you DO NOT want the meds I'm on.
What's wrong this morning?

443 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:56:59am

YANK

This is very weirod.


Am I loosing my frikkin mind?

I can't find the original version of that article anywhere on the MSNBC site now

and the most glaring words that are completely removed from the article if it is indeed a rewrite are
“trilateral security mechanism”

BAGHDAD - The United States ambassador in Baghdad said he and his Iranian counterpart agreed broadly on policy toward Iraq during four-hour groundbreaking talks on Monday, but insisted that Iran end its support for militants.


During a meeting that U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker described as businesslike and focused solely on Iraq,the American said Iran proposed setting up a “trilateral security mechanism” that would include the U.S., Iraq and Iran.

Crocker said the proposal would need study in Washington.The U.S. envoy also said he told the Iranians their country needed to stop arming, funding and training the militants. The Iranians laid out their policy toward Iraq, Crocker said, describing it as “very similar to our own policy and what the Iraqi government have set out as their own guiding principles.”

He added: “This is about actions not just principles, and I laid out to the Iranians direct, specific concerns about their behavior in Iraq and their support for militias that are fighting Iraqi and coalition forces.”

Todays:

BAGHDAD - The United States and Iran broke a 27-year diplomatic freeze on Monday with a four-hour meeting about Iraqi security. The American envoy said there was broad policy agreement but that Iran must stop arming and financing militants who are attacking U.S. and Iraqi forces.

Iran's ambassador, Hassan Kazemi Qomi, told The Associated Press that the two sides would meet again in less than a month. U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker said Washington would decide only after the Iraqi government issued an invitation.

"We don't have a formal invitation to respond to just yet, so it doesn't make sense to respond to what we don't have," Crocker said in a conference call with reporters after the meeting.


Going to search for the original somewhere, anywhere, I'll be back

444 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:57:05am

#440 Kenneth

Those damned opposible thumbs will be the end of the world as we know it!

ROFL. PS-I'm going to send you a secret, encrypted Zionist Cable shortly about something VERY IMPORTANT and not about a lunch....Stay tuned....

445 Peacekeeper  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:57:42am

There is a metaphor here somewhere:

They were more than halfway done with the design — called a mandala — on Tuesday when they ended their work for the day and left. The little boy showed up sometime later with his mother, who was taking a package to a post office in the hall.
“He did a little tap dance on it, completely destroying it,” said Lama Chuck Stanford, of the Rime Buddhist Center in Kansas City.

446 hayseed  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:57:52am

# 436 realwest...I hear ya.lol
# 242 ma sands...I just had to sign 6 pages of paper work at the pain mgmt office last week
something about state statute 2925.22 ORC.lol

447 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:58:32am

#441 Lucius Septimius

PRECISELY.
You got it.


I have to go see if I am insane re: that story in my posts above,


BBL

448 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:59:07am

#00 Charles

...it’s starting to look like [the President i]s simply getting tired...

You know, Charles, that is an astute observation......I've seen strong men be worn down by leadership positions so often....those spots are tougher 'n' pizen, as wise old Huck Finn's Jim'd say.... :)
Natural ailments are horribly exacerbated under such pressure....I know that's what happened to Reagan; my Dad, trying to buck the Star/Trib, died "early" (end of his 70th year); and our beloved old pastor, went to pieces, mentally and physically at the end.....upon retirement, he seems unexplainably 20 years younger!
Such top of the pile responsibility feels so all alone to them.....and think on the non-support beating Bush has taken..... ):
Poor guy --and therefore, poor us! ):

449 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:00:04am

And now, for something completely different:

Man Clad in Underwear Pins Leopard
JERUSALEM - A man clad only in underwear and a T-shirt wrestled a wild leopard to the floor and pinned it for 20 minutes after the cat leapt through a window of his home and hopped into bed with his sleeping family.

"This kind of thing doesn't happen every day," said 49-year-old Arthur Du Mosch, a nature guide. "I don't know why I did it. I wasn't thinking, I just acted."

Raviv Shapira, who heads the southern district of the Israel Nature and Parks Protection Authority, said a half dozen leopards have been spotted recently near Du Mosch's small community of Kibbutz Sde Boker in the Negev desert in southern Israel, although they rarely threaten humans.

[SNIP]
"Du Mosch said he probably would not have been able to control the big cat were it in better health. As a nature guide, he said, he was familiar with animals and did his best to hold down the leopard without harming it. He said he took it all in stride, "but the kids were excited."

[Link: enews.earthlink.net...]

450 Ben Hur  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:00:16am

Carl

I read he was arrested shtupping in his car with someone other than his wife.

Devout.

451 JammieWearingFool  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:01:55am

In a stunning upset, the chinless opthamologist has won a second term in Syria, narrowly winning with 97.62% of the vote.

Jimmy Carter certified the results, so it's legit.

452 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:03:01am

#440 Kenneth - They have opposable thumbs?! Well that explains A LOT about Daily Kos, Huffpoo and DU!
Outsourcing the work, doncha see?! LOL!

How are you doing this morning my friend?

453 Ben Hur  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:03:17am

Shut up about Islam, and be safe


otherwise:

Stop the BS self serving celebrity PR and hip markteting t-shirt fashion campaigns AND BOMB SUDAN!

Paying celebs' spiritual salaries, ie, Hollywood's version of moral carbon off-sets, WILL NOT STOP THE GENOCIDE.

454 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:03:54am

#445 Peacekeeper

Sandma is a Bitch.

455 Yank in the EU  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:04:33am

#443 BabbaZee

Indeed, one would think MSNBC would want to keep such a condemning phrase for the US, if that is truly what the ambassador said, in their articles. Very shadowy; I would like to hear the administration's explanation of what that means, if it was indeed said.

456 nonic  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:04:59am

#432 looking closely
galloping granny

Malpractice, by definition, involves a breach of the standard of care.

Exactly.

It absolutely DOES NOT require malice or reckless disregard for anything.

Really. Then what exactly is a "breach of the standard of care" if NOT a reckless disregard for what the standard is?

The standard of care can never promise a particular outcome. But both sides will bring in doctors to testify as to what the standard is.

A "lousy job" is neither necessary nor sufficient for malpractice.

Which is precisely what I said initially.

457 looking closely  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:05:09am

#270 Granny

I can't speak to what it takes to go after a lawyer for malpractice, but I do know about medicine. You do not have to make any showing of malice or recklessness or knowledge of doing the wrong thing to go after a medical practitioner for malpractice - just that their treatment caused harm. (Note that this does not mean that you can sue because the treatment does not work.)

Harm is a necessary, but not sufficient criterion for malpractice.

The three criteria are:

1. Duty
2. Breach
3. Harm

The first is usually the easiest to prove; was the physician actually responsible for the patient? Was there any patient-physician relationship?

The last is usually also cut and dry (though not always). Did the treatment or lack of appropriate treatment hurt the patient? As you say, if there is no harm, there can be no malpractice, no matter how egregious the conduct of the physician.

But most emphatically, just because a doctor hurts a patient does NOT necessarily mean there has been malpractice.

EG: You have a brain tumor, I resect it, but leave you half paralyzed. You started the procedure able to walk, but now you can't. Clearly I've harmed you. Is this malpractice?

The middle thing is usually where the most fighting happens. Did the physician breach the standard of care?

This is where you have the medical experts arguing about what exactly the standard of care is, and whether the physician actually met it or not.

In my hypothetical example, there could be room for debate. My expert would argue that hemiparesis is a recognized risk of neurosurgery, you were informed of that risk before the procedure, and consented to it, that on balance, I saved your life by removing the brain tumor, and that it wouldn't have been possible, short of a miracle to remove the tumor without causing hemiparesis.

Your paid expert would argue that while most of the above is true, that I'm a butcher, and any decent neurosurgeon would easily be able to resect that tumor without side effects.

Etc.

458 hayseed  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:05:38am

#440 kenneth....maybe Iran needs some racoons too.lol. we have plenty to spare. the Nazi racoons would feel right at home there.

459 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:06:37am

#446 hayseed

Okay....you can keep your medicine.... :)
Guess I just scared myself by looking into "toothache" in our natural methods manual --seems it's got to have been accrueing for a long time before I would've felt the pain....wonder if I can handle the pain for that amount of time, trying to undo the mess.... :)
Thanks for responding....that helps! :)

460 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:06:50am

Yank

So far I found it here with a screen shot

[Link: www.israelnetdaily.com...]

but not anywhere else in it's entirety yet...


WTF?

461 Lucius Septimius  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:06:58am

# 443 BabbaZee

hey, that rhymes ...

When I first saw that on your site I read it as "Trilateral Commission." Bushies and all ...

/conspiracy mode off.

462 Ben Hur  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:07:10am

Dukas' neighbors filed many complaints

Brothers Dritan Duka, 28; Shain Duka, 26; and Eljvir Duka, 23, are ethnic Albanians from the former Yugoslavia who were smuggled into the United States from Mexico as children in 1984. Later they moved to a four-bedroom house on winding, tree-lined Mimosa Drive with a grandmother, their parents, two siblings, two wives, and Dritan's five children.

Today, Achmed don't need no water station to get through the desert.

TFK?

463 BenZacharia  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:08:05am

Realwest

People join the military for a variety of reasons, training/education, economic, sense of belonging and belief in the mission/country. All of these are fine, the Bush girls can't find a category that suits them, no 'Paris Hilton' option.

The list is accurate and if anything way to short and the language is not as harsh as the circumstances call for.

Americas most faithful are dying for PC BULLSHIT! How many more are are returning home crippled in body and soul from the horrors they've endured.

The Allies have suffered 30,000 casualties, the enemy can soak up that many without blinking.

464 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:11:00am

Fat kids always cheer me up....

Iraqi Kid Dances In Front Of Guard Post

465 erisldysnomia  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:11:15am
The Bush administration is perilously close to jumping the tracks. I’ve supported the President through the long course of the war that began on September 11, but it’s starting to look like he’s simply getting tired; he won’t defend his administration against attacks, he won’t defend the country against illegal immigration, he won’t do anything to stop the media leaks that cripple our national security.

If this were me and I were tired and depressed and wanted to really shaft the LLL and Dems and RINOs and Republicans without a backbone, these are exactly the kinds of things I'd do.

While it affects all of us, imagine the fun the LLL will have living under Sharia law.

466 Ben Hur  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:11:45am

Joseph Loconte: When Terrorism Hits Close to Home

What seems to evade BBC officials and others is the connection between the sermons of hate that have poured into the minds of Muslim youth and the kidnapping of one of their most respected correspondents. The BBC’s campaign for Johnston’s release is predicated on the idea that the seizure of journalists somehow crosses a bright moral line. "Alan...is a brave, dedicated and humane journalist who was deeply committed to reporting events in Gaza to the wider world," BBC director general Mark Thompson said in a statement last month. "The people of Gaza are ill-served by kidnappings of this nature."

It is of course understandable that the BBC would want to avoid antagonizing Johnston’s captors with tough talk about the illegality of his kidnapping. Yet it’s an odd way to frame this tragedy: The people of Gaza are ill-served by every kidnapping, every senseless atrocity, every merciless act of terrorism—whether it’s directed at journalists or government officials, Palestinians or Jews.

snip

The BBC, for its part, plans to launch an Arabic television service this year. But if it’s anything like the BBC World Service in its treatment of events in the Middle East, the problem could grow worse. In a disturbing op-ed for The New York Times, Frank Stewart, a professor at Hebrew University of Jerusalem, complained that the BBC’s Arabic service shields Arab leaders and terror groups from criticism, but treats Western democracies with suspicion and even cynicism. "If the BBC’s Arabic TV programs resemble its radio programs, then they will be just as anti-Western as anything that comes out of the Gulf, if not more so," he warned. "They will serve to increase, rather than to diminish, tensions, hostilities and misunderstandings among nations."

467 sandspur  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:12:21am

325 V the K

Re not voting

Like you, I live in a staunch Republican district in a blue state (NJ).
Sometimes, especially lately, I think that voting is a pointless, hopeless gesture.
Yet I will continue to vote every time to honor those who pledged and gave their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor to ensure that we have that right.
Our troops get up every day and do the heavy lifting for me and mine. I won't fail to do my duty for them.
I hope you will reconsider not voting. When hope is gone, we must continue on without hope. It is our duty and obligation as citizens of the greatest nation on the face of the earth. Our nation cannot remain great if we just stop participating when things aren't going the way we want them to. We are the instruments of change.

468 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:12:28am

Here are some people we don't need breathing our air.

Just about every year, something in washington state makes me think that we ought to sell it to Canada in exchange for oil.

Speaking of things we need to sell to Canada... maybe we can give her to canada as well.

469 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:12:36am

#451 JammieWearingFool - Morning to you my friend! Hope you're doing well!
I reckon those 2.38% of voters who didn't vote for him voted for Ron Paul!
NOTE: to all Ron Paul supporters (and you three know who you are) I'm just kidding!

470 galloping granny  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:15:48am
#432 looking closely 5/29/2007 6:50:27 am PDT

#274 Galloping Granny

I call BS. There is tons of information the President is privy to that doesn't make the papers. EG 98% of intelligence gathered by the CIA and NSA, for example, as well as all sorts of information gathered and communicated off the cuff.

Who said it all made the papers? I said most of it is available if you know how to search for it. Very little is "hidden" these days. And you don't really think that POTUS has time to personally wade through all of that info do you? He gets a summary of whatever his underlings think is important for him to know. The underlings may or may not do an adequate, unbiased job.

471 Mike C.  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:16:11am

Word of advice to any and all new (or old) lizards. When "nonic" speaks to legal matters, disgression is the better part of valour.

You're bringing a knife to a gun fight, folks.

I gotta go actually get real stuff done, so see everyone on the live threads.

472 BenZacharia  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:17:22am

realwest

Pokin' the Ronnites? They'll get paraniod ya know.

Goneski

473 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:19:23am

YANK

OK
I have other people doing searches now too in case I am loosing my mind

But I think something very Pravda is going on here.

I will wait till I research thoroughly before the J'accuse.

BBL

474 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:19:38am

472 BenZ

IronFist (not sure if others had before, he was the first I saw use it) referred to them as Paulistinians

475 Ben Hur  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:21:19am

Babba!

476 BenZacharia  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:21:49am

LK

OUCH!

477 carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:22:20am

#466 Ben Her: GOOD Post!

Maybe if BBC wakes up to a RAGING CLUE as to all the 'ill served' poison they're being party to delivering, BBC will become part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

I'm encouraged, but I won't hold my breath!

478 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:22:52am

476 BenZ

heh.

479 Ben Hur  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:24:06am

The BBC Sucks.

480 hayseed  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:25:34am

why pain mgmt is a pian in S.W. ohio.lol

[Link: www.redorbit.com...]


[Link: www.enquirer.com...]

481 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:25:58am

JUDAH!

Pravda West wants my Neshama!

LOL!

BBL

482 nagasaki_hata  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:26:18am

This doesn't surprize-the bushbaby is transforming the USA into the North American Union and in effect electing a new people, so ANYTHING he does-- including giving himself unlimited powers that no other president has ever had--and now this friendly talk with the Persians is simply Bush Being Bush.

And now a touch of irony for Memorial Day--- It's reported that DAVID LANE died in prison somehow. (Lane was a neo-Nazi type in prison for arranging the death of Alan Berg a Denver radio host)

483 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:27:57am

#464 KT

Another interesting video found at your link (and at Drudge) is the video of Miss USA being heckled and booed by our friends in Mexico. The Miss Universe pagent is absurd and ridiculuous, even anachronistic. But to roundly hiss at the representative of the country you are colonizing takes some balls. Let's welcome another 12 million. Maybe they can taunt us with chants of "Osama Osama Osama" in our own stadiums like they did the US Soccer team playing in Mexico a few years back. No wonder the left is so eager import this voting block.

484 newsjunkie_ky  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:28:05am

RE: malpractice lawsuits

Don't do it. You'll have years of stress. Dealings with lying lawyers, theirs and yours. And if you do win, the only ones that will get the money are the attorneys (% plus expenses, which had up like crazy) and the IRS which taxes you on not only what you get but in some cases what the attorney gets.

Been there, done that, have been told by IRS attorneys to sue MY attorneys for malpractice. Nope, won't go through that hell again.

485 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:28:26am

#480 hayseed

The hillbillies! Addicted! Oh, my. Wow....

486 Yank in the EU  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:28:58am

#460 BabbaZee

What's possible is that someone at MSNBC or the wire thought the article might misleadingly suggest that the US had accepted Iran's 'proposal'. But who knows, though. They usually spin everything in the worst possible direction for the US, even when no decision was reached.

487 Cygnus  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:29:48am

At this rate, Cindy Sheehan will wind up as our new ambassador to Iran. Yeccch!

488 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:29:57am

#463 BenZacharia - I'll simply reiterate my prior post: Americans AS A WHOLE (excluding the military and their families and friends) haven't been called upon to do a damn thing in the GWoT; not even to let the Commander in Chief LEAD!
And no I'm not saying Bush is any kind of military genius (and for that matter I've got my doubts about his military advisors). A Major problem we have is, if anything, Bush is too nice.
I still rememeber the looks on the faces of the Taliban forces when they surrendered after a couple of B-52 raids - totally dazed and confused.
And I'll reiterate something I've said out here probably a dozen times or more: Iran - more accurately Persia - hasn't been in a WAR since it's dust up with Iraq some thirty years or so ago. They Truly have no idea of what they're up against IF the President says "GO" (and no, I'm not referring to nukes at all). Methinks a good dose of real shock and awe would make the mullahs either formerly in charge in Iran or wake 'em the hell up about this "game" they seem to be playing in Iraq.
We just haven't been tough enough, IMO, in prosecuting the GWoT. And we haven't asked enough of the American people for them to understand, much less empathize with the situation with which we are faced.
Yeah, I'll bet Bush is tired. He's not only fighting Al-Qaeda and it's assorted offshoots, and the Euroweenies, and Russia and China but his own Disloyal Opposition and the MSM, a/k/a the "fifth - not fourth - branch of government.
That's a load for anyone to deal with and he ought to, even at this late date, ask for more from US. Especially in the field of alternative fuels, fuel economy, nuclear power and etc. If we don't rid ourselves of our dependence on foreign sources of energy, or at least dramatically reduce same, we are never gonna be in a position to tell the Saudi's (whom I believe are more trouble than Iran, Russia and China combined)much less Hugo or anyone else to go piss up a rope.
I've not objection AT ALL to a National Service - doesn't even have to be military; teachers, nurses, environmental clean up etc. etc. etc., some SACRIFICE on the part, especially, of young Americans. Something that will connect them, probably forever, with the notion of helping others not for the dough, but because it's the right thing to do.
Now all we have, excluding of course the Troops and their families are a bunch of ipod and gameboy freaks who have a poor education (no matter what level of education they've received) and no CONNECTION to the Nation as a whole.
I enlisted in the Army and I gotta tell ya, draftees, for the most part, served just as well and just as bravely as the enlisted guys. And they did take with them a sense of being an American. And the responsibilities that come with the priviliges that attend thereto.

489 loppyd  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:30:43am

Good Morning, One & All!

What's the good word on this last Tuesday of May?

490 haakondahl  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:30:59am

#329 Roger

In math there are problems involving limits: take the equation:

Voter Choice ∝ 1/(GOP-Bonkeys) ∝ 1/(lesserOfTwoEvils-evil)

What do to when the margin between lesserOfTwoEvils & evil becomes minuscule?

This is a well-known problem in quantitative approaches to management modeling, and has been authoritatively solved using the F.I.A. determinant, with the solution being:

PUNT.

491 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:32:08am

#479 Ben: OH YEAH!

I was listening, one fateful day years ago, as the BBC reported on RADIO that (said reporter Gilligan)

"I'm here in Bangkok but those lying yanks are nowhere to be seen,"


while over my shoulder TV was showing Yanks helping Iraqis tear down that hated statue of Saddam!

BBC sucks firehoses!

492 Ben Hur  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:33:25am
493 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:33:28am

OVERALL APOLOGY FOR ALL MY TYPOS! Its the med's I tells ya, and that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

494 friarstale  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:34:54am

462 Ben Hur
excellent article
these guys drew plenty of attention to themselves, but got away with most of their BS

453 an important article too
I'm glad to see Hirsi Ali is traveling the globe to Speak Truth to Petro-Dollar Power

She is like a Paula Revere to the coming Global Fight against Islamic Supremacists

495 rw in san diego  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:34:57am

Good morning, all.

realwest, regarding your posts this morning; you never rant. You very rationally and with great aplomb, state your point of view and you are NEVER dopey. I always have interest in what you have to say and I read your posts carefully. Hope the meds help and that you have a great day...you deserve it.

#437 Writer Mom

From your link:

Trivers started his academic career at Harvard. As a Harvard undergraduate he had a nervous breakdown and was denied admissions into the University's Law program. Instead, he moved into biology in 1967 to study lizards.

Uh oh!

497 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:36:15am

I wonder if the meeting spoken of in the article above, could have had anything to do with the reasoning behind the explosion in central Baghdad this morning....

498 FrogMarch  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:36:24am
499 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:37:24am

#493 RealWest: I'm just grateful the meds boogle your fingers, but leave your logical mind finely intact and functioning well!

We have NOT been strong enough! Let the Iranians TASTE what it is they're playing with, and THEN use the carrots at our disposal.

Carrots do NOT WORK where there is NO RESPECT for STICKS!

500 loppyd  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:37:33am

{realwest}

Good Morning, Handsome!

If we don't rid ourselves of our dependence on foreign sources of energy, or at least dramatically reduce same, we are never gonna be in a position to tell the Saudi's (whom I believe are more trouble than Iran, Russia and China combined)much less Hugo or anyone else to go piss up a rope.

Drilling in ANWR would be a start...but then those poor caribou would be displaced.

Pfffttttthhhhhh

501 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:37:41am

#489 {loppyd} - well I reckon the good word is that this is a short work week (so ok, more than one word!)!
How are you doing darlin'?

502 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:38:56am

#494 FriarsTail: YOU're up early, Dewd! Howzyer hammer hangin'? :D

503 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:39:06am

#454 WriterMom

Been pondering, and finally decided I have to broach it:
That word sounds awfully close to a rendition of my nic........? ):

504 JammieWearingFool  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:39:24am

realwest,

The story said 1.71% didn't vote for Lil' Bashie. If I were them, I'd consider leaving before there a knock on their doors late some night.

505 Ben Hur  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:39:35am
506 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:40:52am

#500 LoppyD: just read of a FUSION-POWER company venture capitalized to the tune of $40 MILLION... Its one more good step in a right direction: Energy Self-Sufficiency!

507 MandyManners  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:41:07am

489 loppyd

Bird!

508 Kenneth  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:41:25am

Now about the lead story on this thread: the US-Iran meeting.

I've looked at plenty of media sources covering the meeting, and something peculiar strikes me. The headlines in the liberal msm sources are strangly similar: US & Iran Reach Accord on Iraq, US & Iran to Meet Again, US & Iran End Diplomatic Freeze, & etc.

Yet when one reads the actual content of the meeting, you see a very different picture. In fact you see two very different pictures.

What the US side said was, "Stop interfering in Iraq", "Stop supporting & arming the terrorists & militias", "We have detailed proof of Iranian weapons reaching the insurgents", and so on.

The Iranian side refused to comment on the accusations that they are supplying the terrorists. Instead they said things like, "The US occupation is causing the insurgency", "The US must leave Iraq now", "US training of the Iraqi army is not working", "Iran is willing to train the Iraqi army", and "Let's meet again next month". My, how cordial!

Now which side does the MSM use to frame their reports? Overwhelmingly, the Iranian talking points. And why not? The Iranian talking points are simply and obviously restatements of the Democratic talking points. Haven't you heard Murtha, Pelosi, Kerry & Reid say the same things? The Iranians certainly know who their target audience is!

In my opinion this is a classic MSM/Democratic Party play to completely ignore the real policy and message of the Bush administration and to use deliberate misquotes, distortions and sock-puppets to insert their defeatist agenda into the news cycle.

A naive reader could glance at the headlines and get the mistaken impression that the US & Iran have re-opened diplomatic relations (they have not), that the US & Iran are "in accord" on Iraq, (they are not), and that the US & Iranians will meet again soon to further this so-called progress, (no such invitation was either extended or accepted). It's all bullshit.

What is really happening:

1. The US told the directly Iranians to stop arming the terrorists.
2. The US showed the Iranians proof of Iranian weapons reaching the terrorists.
3. US & Iraqi Army continue to raid Shia militias killing & capturing dozens of terrorists.
4. In the last few months, US & Iraqi Army have swung Sunni tribes in Anbar & now Diyala provinces against Al Aqaeda. Hundreds of terrorists have been killed or captured.
5. The US has two aircraft carriers and a USMC epedtionery cruising the Persian Gulf.
6. US & European leaders are calling for tougher sanctions on Iran.
7. The French gov't pressured a French bank to cut-off financing for Iranian oil field development.
8. Russians have stopped work on the Bushere nuclear power plant.
9. The UN will move ahead with the Hariri tribunal against Iranian ally Syria.
10. The pro-Western Lebanese gov't is fighting the Syrian & Iranian armed Fatah al-Islam group.
11. Iranian students & trade unions and ordinary brave young women are marching & protesting against the mullah's regime.
12. Ordinary Iranians are angry at the regime's sudden increase in prices & rationing of gasoline.
13. Capital flight continues and the Iranian stock market has dropped, again.
14. Kurdish, Arab & Baluchi ethnic groups are rebelling against the central Persian regime.

From the mullahs point of view, things are not looking too good. In fact, as Michael Ledeen noted, all the classic conditions for revolution are now present in Iran.

Can we stop the Democratic MSM spin now?

(Over the past several weeks, I have posted links to all the above points, so if you want to check the facts, search my posting history.)

509 EmeraldLakeEyes  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:41:29am
148 FriarsTale 5/28/2007 11:16:36 pm PDT

call me optimistic, but this part gives me hope:

but that Iran must stop arming and financing militants who are attacking U.S. and Iraqi forces.

is this just making a formal request so that when we later kick the sheeite out of them we can say "well, we tried diplomacy"

?

I have only read the thread to this comment so far and I agree.

Talks failed and next step is a big BANG!

510 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:41:33am

#503 MaSands

OY! NO! I didn't mean you...{MASANDS}

I meant a play on the phrase "Karma Is A Bitch"-and Peacekeepers story was about Budhist monks getting their sand sculpture trashed by a toddler. So, "Sand-ma" instead of Karma...

Not you at all!

511 6patrick6  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:42:33am

I used to be a huge Bush supporter. Now he has jumped the shark, plain and simple. There is hardly a soul that I trust on either side of the aisle anymore. One of the big problems was that Bush did NOT purge the State Department of the Clintonites, immediately upon taking his first term. That was the beginning of the end. The end was talking to Iran.

Come on, November 2008!

512 FriarsTale  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:42:59am

502
a little to the left...

but I'm still Right of Center

did you hear La Marsailles Moderne yet?
[Link: cruxy.com...]

I'm thinking of changing the name to "La MarcSteynaisse" or something...

additional verses or rhymes I can work in are welcome, nay downright solicited!

513 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:43:16am

482 nagasaki

including giving himself unlimited powers that no other president has ever had

and... just what did he grant himself? Specifics please.

514 loppyd  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:43:40am

BEN HUR!

Do you get the feeling that Joe Torre secretly wants to get swept by Toronto so he can get fired and enjoy his summer already?

515 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:44:02am

#496 Carl in Jerusalem
Interesting, there seems to be a concerted effort to target girls with their propaganda lately.

516 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:44:05am

#491 CORRECTION (and apologies)
Gilligan said,

"I'm here in BAGHDAD, but them Yanks are nowhere to be seen..."

No meds, I'm just tired...

517 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:44:45am

#510 WriterMom

Whew! :)

(Btw...then I can see, that is a cute invention.... :)

518 Ward Cleaver  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:44:46am

#440 Kenneth

Hilarious article! I liked the picture of the raccoon with his paw raised with a "We come in peace" look.

When I was a kid, we captured a young raccoon at our house in Dallas, and kept it for awhile as a pet. We gave him to some family friends, who later released him in the woods, as he had become too big and too wild.

It was fun watching him run along the back of the sofa, to one end, then turn around and run to the other end.

519 ChenZhen  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:45:52am
The Bush administration is perilously close to jumping the tracks. I’ve supported the President through the long course of the war that began on September 11, but it’s starting to look like he’s simply getting tired; he won’t defend his administration against attacks, he won’t defend the country against illegal immigration, he won’t do anything to stop the media leaks that cripple our national security ... and now this: U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze.

1. I don't agree that the "war" started on 9/11. We've been battling terrorism for decades.

2. Most of the "attacks" against the administration are legitimate.

3. I agree with the immigration part.

4. Leaks that hurt national security, like say, the Plame thing?

As far as the Iran thing goes, why would you feel nothing good will come? If we can do anything to curtail the attacks on our troops and stabilize Iraq, would that be a good thing? Also, how did we get to this point? We know that the ISG suggested (many months ago) the administration talk to Iran, so, how many have died due to Bush's stubbornness? Oh well, "mistakes were made".

How anyone could sit by and unconditionally support this president through all this for no better reason than the fact that we were attacked on 9/11 while he was in office is beyond me. I really don't get it.

/But, hey, I have BDS after all

520 loppyd  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:45:53am

Lance


and... just what did he grant himself? Specifics please.

You just took the words out of my mouth.

Thank you!

521 christheprofessor  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:46:02am

#505 Ben Hur

I think you are a bit confused -- that's the ham Rosie smokes after having sex...

522 Ward Cleaver  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:46:05am

#496 Carl

I trust you sent that to Charles.

523 Kenneth  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:46:44am

Realwest:

I'm fine thanks. Just fighting off the raccoon hordes. Toronto is literaly crawling with them.

524 joncelli  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:47:09am

Realizing that I'm late to this conversation...

W's MO is like that of a cop who tells somebody that he is getting ready to bust that they still have a chance to avoid a night stick up the side of their head. Just as he did before the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, W is checking off the agenda item that says "Jaw with the enemy" before he nods to the Air Force guys and tells them to bomb the @#$% out of the Revolutionary Guards and the nuclear weapons sites. Or at least I hope so.

525 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:47:26am

516 carridine

I remember when they pulled down that statue. Our boys put an American flag on it, then some muckity muck decided that it may not send the right message to the Iraqi people, so we took it down and put their flag up, then yanked it down.

526 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:47:36am

#495 rw in san diego - WHOA! Thank you very much for that (who says you can't fool all or at least a goodly portion of the people......! LOL!).
Don't know if I truly deserve a great day, but I'll sure as hell accept it.
And while I am sincere in my thanks, the fact is I do rant every now and again. I really, really like BenZ and others with whom I disagree out here, but I confess that I sometimes "mix and match" thoughts in my posts.
And I do not think Bush has asked enough sacrifices from the American People as a whole in this war. If you're not a troop, family member, friend or veteran yourself, I imagine this "war" is sorta like a video game - at least the way the MSM presents it. And I do "sense" a growing disconnect for a LOT of Americans with what's going on in the world outside their homes, school districts, neighborhoods. And that both saddens and maddens me no end.

527 FriarsTale  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:48:23am

516 Carridine
a bit of Americana for you
Shriners in mini-cars


Fife and Drum

enjoy

528 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:50:18am

520 loppyd

LanceKates, rendering Loppyd speechless since 5/29/2007 7:45:53 am PDT!

*grin*

(I'm trying to work on distorting facts to my benifit for my run for President in 2016... how's it working?)

530 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:52:34am

#508 Kenneth: Excellent recap, thank you!

531 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:52:44am

#499 Carridine - The med's leave my "logical mind finely intact and functioning well"? Really?
Well, thanks for that.
And yes, so far the Persians really don't understand that we even HAVE sticks, much less the damage those sticks can do. I'm sure they watched us take Afghanistan in 8 weeks or so (after the vaunted USSR couldn't do it in years of effort) and our knocking over Sadaam so quickly as well, no doubt watching us over CNN or the BBC - same difference, but watching it can't begin to explain what it's really like. Kinda like watching a War movie - any war movie - and understanding what being in a war is really like.

532 christheprofessor  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:53:02am

#523 Kenneth

I'm fine thanks. Just fighting off the raccoon hordes. Toronto is literaly crawling with them.

Hate to hear that. Where I live, it's not uncommon for them to be rabid...

533 Dustoff-507  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:53:20am

#488 Realwest


Right on buddy.... !

534 Kenneth  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:53:26am

BabbaZee,

Re: "trilateral security mechanism”

Your spidey senses are indeed on to something. That phrase was uttered by they Iranian spokesthug, not the US ambassador. It comes right out of the standard Whores of the Caliphate Phrasebook. Which is why you've heard it from the UN, Jamil Bakr, and now the mullahs. It resonates with them just like, "Alliance of Civilizations".

It sounds one-worldy, safe & technically neutral. Which is why the UN loves it. It also elevates the Islamic Republic of Iranian to the world power status that the megalomaniac mullahs imagine they occupy.

535 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:54:13am

#527 FriarsTale: C'mon, don't tease me! You KNOW that Thailand BLOCKS YouTube at the national cable gateway...

I haven't seen a YouTube video for over 6 weeks now!

536 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:54:47am

#505 Ben Hur - ROTFLMAO! Thanks for that!

537 Jheka  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:55:20am

Cox and Forkum, for whom I have tremendous respect, agree with you.

I'm reserving judgment for the time being. I think that talks can be good or bad. It's what's said that really determines that.

538 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:56:23am

#508 Kenneth - Great Post. Truly. Thank you for that.

539 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:56:25am

#495 rw in san diego

ROFL. I totally missed that. RUH ROH!

540 Kenneth  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:56:32am

#530 Carridine

As I understand, you are Bahai? Do you have any contact with family & or friends in Iran? What mood do you see over there right now?

I have read the the US is more popular in Iran than anywhere else in the Middle East (among the people, not the gov't).

541 Ward Cleaver  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:57:25am

#519 ChenZhen

I am far from unconditionally supporting Bush (I think he's gone off his rocker), there's no good reason for talking with Iran. They have no interest in stablizing Iraq, as it could become a barrier to their aims in the region. They'd rather we pull out, so that al-Sadr can take over, and make a Iraq into a Shiite-controlled ally of Iran.

542 ggt  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:57:32am

Good Morning all! It is bright and warm in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicago.

I hope everyone enjoyed the holiday weekend!

543 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:57:50am

#508 Kenneth

Thank you!

544 JohnRC  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:58:07am

I'm dating myself but all day yesterday I had flashbacks of the Paris Peace Talks of the '70's triggered by the news we're 'chatting' with Tehran. Maybe I'm just imagining things.

545 newsjunkie_ky  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:58:09am

508 Kenneth,

The reason the headlines are written the liberal way is that most people don't read beyond the headline or the first few paragraphs.

The msm know this. That is why you will find most of the LEADS buried way down in the story and the headline spins a liberal agenda.

546 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:58:22am

#531 RealWest: Roger that!

Movies, even 3D with 5-channel Dolby Surround sound, just AIN'T like the real thing!

/I'm jumping to the new thread

547 Buck  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:58:43am

#500 loppyd

America can get all it's oil and other energy needs from Canada!

Save Alaska for later.

548 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:59:53am

#534 kenneth

Whores of the Caliphate Phrasebook

LOL. The New York Times best seller!

549 Ward Cleaver  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:00:38am

#544 JohnRC

Yeah, the whole "peace in our time" thing.

/spit

550 hayseed  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:02:10am

from racoons to the evil emerald ash borer. just went out back to smoke a cig and found one. gotta go call the county people to come and look. ya'll be good.

551 Kenneth  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:03:13am

#545 newsjunkie_ky

The reason the headlines are written the liberal way is that most people don't read beyond the headline or the first few paragraphs.

Exactly. Yesterday I posted about a headline "Dozens killed in Taliban attack on US convoy". You had to read 3 or 4 paragraphs to learn that one US soldier was injured while some 2 dozen Taliban were hunted down and killed. That's a hell of a spin!

552 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:04:44am

#540 Carridine

I second Kenneth's question.... :)

553 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:05:47am

#537 Jheka - Thanks for the link! Love(?) that cartoon.
I would also just say that it's the results of the talks that really determines whether the talks were good or bad.
But regardless of the results, the timing was, IMHO, an insult to veterans (and active duty Troops) and their families all over the country.

554 rw in san diego  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:06:49am

realwest

I agree. A little service to our nation would go a long way in instilling the pride and personal investment in our nation that many seem to have lost. As a people, we are so free of any real responsibility in contributing to maintaining our freedoms that we tend to take them for granted. We consider these freedoms a given, our divine right, and forget how many sacrificed so much to achieve what we have. We will pay dearly in the long run if we don't wise up soon. Bush will never be the president to inspire this nation by his rhetoric, but I sincerely hope that he hasn't lost his will to fight. What really bothers me is that I sense the fingerprint of that weasel, James Baker, in a number of Bush positions lately. I trust Baker just about as far as I could pick him up and toss him...and that's not far.
I know I'm all over the place with this post, but I hope I'm getting my point across.

555 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:06:58am

#540 Kenneth: Thank you for asking.

The official, planned and methodical government persecution of Baha'is continues.

One in five adult women (not Baha'is) is suspected of turning to prostitution to feed herself and her family.

Heroin and meth are a raging problem, pandemic in the urban areas.

The oilfields are nearly broken; haven't been renewed or updated for years; because mullahs have been siphoning off ALL the income they can.

Crackdown on students... women... the brutal treatment of rape victims victimizes them even further...

And upthread (#508) Kenneth has links that show even more of the suffering visited upon the people to whom the Lord of Hosts came, and who killed his Forerunner and brutally imprisoned Him, then exiled Him...

...something about 'the wrath of God'...

556 Kenneth  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:07:54am

Ok, does anybody here have a subscription to the New Republic Online? I don't have much use for there liberal slant, but every once in a while they have a worthwhile essay. Today, they feature an in depth look at the liberal's favourite Islamist, Tariq Ramadan, by Paul Berman. And what he sees, he doesn't like!

The Islamist, the journalist, and the defense of liberalism.
Who's Afraid of Tariq Ramadan?

by Paul Berman

I'm not saying you should break copyright or anything, but I would like to see what Berman has to say.

557 TMF  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:08:11am

LanceKates

including giving himself unlimited powers that no other president has ever had


and... just what did he grant himself? Specifics please.

Lance: dont bother

He probably thinks Bush is the worst dictator since Stalin, has suspended habeus corpus for all criminal defendants, and is "spying on Americans" without a warrant.

Obviously someone who has bought the Dem/MSM line that Bush is a fascist.

558 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:08:13am

#551 Kenneth, newsjunkie_ky

Somehow, in that knowledge, there's got to be a way to tantalize those "most people" with the fact that, if they skipped to the bottom, and even only skimmed the rest....they'd find treasure! :)

559 a.k.a. Will  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:08:13am

"#282 Shiplord Kirel 5/29/2007 4:46:50 am PDT

Completely off topic

As though we didn't have enough problems with Mexican illegals and yankee carpetbaggers, Lubbock has been invaded by (o)possums. These creatures not known to be native to this area. "


Small animal creatures have been on the move for several years. From Texas and the Southwest, coyotes and armadillos have moved over into Mississippi, Alabama and I think Georgia.

We'll take our Opossoms back if you'll take back the coyotes and armadillos.

560 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:08:44am

#534 Kenneth

Si, Senor.
Thanks for the confirmation ;~}


/still investigating

However the Ambassador said it at least three times in the presser and not int a context of giving Iran credit for the idea or the phrase, then there's the apparent origin of the pharase as you see.
I am looking for a transcript or a video of that press conference now too


CNN ran a very small part of it live that I made sure I saw early yesterday morning

sickening is all I can say about what I saw and heard


BB in 15, LOL

561 newsjunkie_ky  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:09:00am

new thread

562 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:10:15am

#554 rw in san diego - Trust me, you got your point across and it's a helluva good one, too (and better said than I tried to!). It's what I meant when I said there's a disconnect between many Americans and the fact that we ARE in a WAR!

563 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:11:12am

If Bush stops Iran in the next year and a half from getting nukes, then his presidency will have been successful.


If, on the other hand, the war in Iraq is lost )at least partly due to over-optimistic assumptions and insufficient manning and planning for the initial occupation), such that thousands of American troops are killed, the party somewhat serious about national security loses the White House in 2009, and the world's greatest supporter of terrorism has nuclear bombs, Bush will be a historic failure on the level of Jimmy Carter.


I think nothing but an intense, multi-week aerial bombing campaign, which unfortunately will see Gulf tanker traffic attacked, Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and, of course, Israel attacked by both Shia suicide bombers and missiles armed with chemical warheads, and probably even attacks by sleeper Hezb'Allah cells in the US, that will stop Iran's evil nuclear ambitions.

564 ggt  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:11:22am

I watched the Memorial Service at Arlington on C-SPAN last night. I thought the speech Bush gave was one of his better ones.

As before in our history, Americans find ourselves under attack and underestimated. Our enemies long for our retreat. They question our moral purpose. They doubt our strength of will. Yet even after five years of war, our finest citizens continue to answer our enemies with courage and confidence. Hundreds of thousands of patriots still raise their hands to serve their country; tens of thousands who have seen war on the battlefield volunteer to re-enlist. What an amazing country to produce such fine citizens.

emphasis mine

565 JohnRC  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:12:11am

#549, Ward Cleaver. After they argued over the shape of the table for a year we then proceeded to live up to every part of the 'chats' they were massing on the Cambodian and Laos border and the minute we were out of the country the north rolled right in with their chinese communist financed blitzkreig and the south proceeded to vote with their rafts. That lead to the destabilizing of Cambodia and Pol Pot's Killing Fields. [Link: www.hnn.us...] What happened when the democrat congress cut off funding to Vietnam. Deja vu all over again. The democrats flushed down the toilet the efforts of 58,000 dead GI's.

566 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:12:28am

#555 Carridine

Heroin and meth are a raging problem, pandemic in the urban areas.

I wondered how anyone was able to stand the unceasing adrenaline of fear, there.... ):

567 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:14:35am

557 TMF

perhaps... but anyone with nagasaki in their name should understand the violence and the necessary bitter cost of war.

I seem to remember camps in WWII to intern Japanese to make sure they weren't spies....

and I'm sure we weren't referred to as facist scum back then...

and the President is lightyears away from doing that to muslims now. (and some may argue that he could and should)

568 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:15:26am

#566 Ma Sands: I'm not proselytizing, but for the love of God! When a NATION, AS a NATION, turns away from what Baha'u'llah brought, it is left with SUCH DREGS, SUCH POISON and SUCH IGNORANCE...

Drugs are the least of their problems!

569 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:16:36am

568 Carridine

funny, I say the same thing about America and Judeo-Christian beliefs.

570 ggt  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:17:26am

#562 realwest

It's what I meant when I said there's a disconnect between many Americans and the fact that we ARE in a WAR!

You are right. I was thinking last night. . . .

The MSM keeps pounding in to our heads the number of soldiers/Iraqi's killed--but never seem to question the number dead if evil is left unchecked.

Bosnia-Herzegovina: 1992-1995 - 200,000 Deaths
Rwanda: 1994 - 800,000 Deaths
Pol Pot in Cambodia: 1975-1979 - 2,000,000 Deaths
Nazi Holocaust: 1938-1945 - 6,000,000 Deaths
Rape of Nanking: 1937-1938 - 300,000 Deaths
Stalin's Forced Famine: 1932-1933 - 7,000,000 Deaths
Armenians in Turkey: 1915-1918 - 1,500,000 Deaths

I know I am preaching to the choir . . .

571 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:18:43am

#568 Carridine

Ahhhh! ): --it is my ignorance, Carridine.....I have not yet been able to get my mind around your Baha'u'llah.....but I do know that without the true God residing in one's soul, men are lost, in all ways one can think of....

572 Roger  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:21:39am

#490 haakondahl

lol! eggcellent!

573 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:21:39am

570 ggt

6 million jews killed.... plus also another 5 to 6 million non-jews (many of which were Christians)

574 christheprofessor  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:23:20am

#559 a.k.a. Will

I could have sworn I saw a dead armadillo (possum on the half-shell) on the side of the road here in NC the other day... Saw lots of 'em in Tampa when I lived there, so I know what they look like -- don't ever recall seeing any here before...

575 ggt  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:23:31am

Did I tell you I have joined the youth of this century and got an IPOD?

Anyway, Colonial Williamsburg has a very nice podcast "Education for Citizenship in a Revolutionary City". I goes nicely with Realwest's point.

I've also been enjoyed Politics Central podcasts.

I have an FM transmitter for the car -- nice!

576 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:23:48am

my 573

in the holocaust I mean.

577 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:24:00am

#563 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet - Great post and I coulnd't agree with you more. I'd just add Syria to that comment, not just Iran Persia.

578 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:25:45am

575 ggt

heh.. in my blog I had running for a contest for a scholarship, I ran a story about a bill in Michigan that would supply (at taxpayer expense) an ipod for every michigan student.

they're Required for learning nowdays I guess. heh.

I have a 25 dollar MP3 player I got from walmart, but I don't really get into that ipod stuff.... I have a sirius radio.

if only they made something that let me use it like a walkman while biking or something.

579 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:26:39am

#568 LanceKates: The Glory of God didn't bring a 'new religion', He brought the RENEWAL of the Religion of God, the core truth and beauty brought at such precious price by Jesus and the Patriarchs before Him...

Baha'u'llah's praise of Jesus is sincere and explicit. His Teachings in no way negate the Spirit, and inculcate a loving respect for Jesus and Moses as true revealers of the Holy Word of God!

And 'Abdu-l Baha, His son, when released from decades of imprisonment in Akka, bearing the brunt of the Caliphate's brutal hatred, CAME TO America for 9 months, and praised America's ideals, Constitution and the American spirit.
(see 'Promulgation of Universal Peace', a collection of public talks given by 'Abdu-l Baha)

#571 Ma Sands: think 'righteousness that is Christ', come in His 'New Name' (Rev 2:17, 3:12)

580 ggt  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:27:16am

#573 Lance

like I said, I am preaching to the choir. . . .

that was the first linky I could find--I posted with haste.

I think there are a number of people out there who think that evil is a quaint, but out-dated concept. Now it is termed: mental illness; unfortunate childhood, bad choices, genetic instability.

There is a line and our current enemy has crossed it.

581 Carridine  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:29:42am

I would LOVE to stay, but it is 2230 BKK time, and I'm sliding outta my chair with fatigue...

All best wishes to friends and readers; Thai TV has news of more violence in the 'restive south'; Thais are happy with their new Constitution, and I'm going to bed.

Nytol

582 ibmkeyboard  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:29:55am
The Bush administration is perilously close to jumping the tracks. I’ve supported the President through the long course of the war that began on September 11, but it’s starting to look like he’s simply getting tired; he won’t defend his administration against attacks, he won’t defend the country against illegal immigration, he won’t do anything to stop the media leaks that cripple our national security ... and now this: U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze.


Charles,
Fatigue doth make cowards of us all. (Vince Lombardi)
Most of his friends have left. Rumsfield was a f@cking joke. I think this President has had the worst advice/intelligence in history, except maybe Johnson.. War on Terror..
Remember, We will fight with the Army we Have! (Dumsfield) Yeah, Well, Lincoln would have fired his ass years ago. Troops on three fronts, Afghanistan, Iraq, Korea, and protect our borders. Good Luck with that. One of my friends has been over there 3 times.. And I can assure you he is tired of it.. Good thing we have nuclear weapons in case the Chinese decide to invade. What else can he do? If a future president thinks he can declare war on anything without restoring the Draft he is just blowing smoke.. Been there and done that. I still support this President, I think he will turn it over to the Iraqis next year, And if they aren't willing to die for their country why should we?

583 ggt  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:30:31am

#578 Lance

but they do, it's called the "arm band". I got the cheap version at Best Buy--elastic not neopreen (sp?).

I don't download music (not yet anyway)just books and podcasts.

584 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:30:59am

#580 ggt - There is indeed a line out there and our enemies have crossed it, many times and still we do............nothing. Well, ok, On Memorial Day we "talked" to the Persians, but not the Syrians. It sorta pisses me off that Syria is so integral to the arming and transport of foreign "freedom fighters" into Iraq and yet our government hardly ever mentions it (not to mention Syria's greatly fucking up Lebannon and putting even more strain on our fine ally Israel).

585 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:31:29am

580 ggt

I agree wholeheartedly.

I just get a little upset when I see people talk about the Holocaust, but not mention the millions of Christians who were killed in the nazi death camps as well.

People, here as well, need to understand that we are in this together because our enemy wants us both dead.

586 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:33:44am

583 ggt

I mean for my sirius radio.

I'm debating getting a bicycle to go riding on the BIKE TRAILS (hint to you bicyclists.... bike. trails. heh.) near my home. but I know that I'll get quickly bored if I don't have some music or talk radio in my ear.

maybe I'll get some sort of mp3 player that can hold more than 2 dozen songs and get glenn beck's show downloaded for each ride.

587 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:33:57am

#579 Carridine

...Rev 2:17, 3:12...

Alright, I shall start the study, this time, with those verses.....thank you for your patience.

588 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:37:55am

#582 ibmkeyboard - Good morning y'all. I have to admit, when Bush first took office I wasn't surprised at the lack of manpower and up-to-date equipment he found. Part of Clinton's legacy. But we really ARE short handed in terms of manpower and I don't know what the hell we can do about it.
I mean, even the most patriotic American would, I suspect, wonder about the wisdom of joining the military - active duty, reserves or National Guard (and I'll take this moment to tip my hat to the Reserves and NG; they've performed magnificently everywhere they been called on to serve).
I don't know the answer to the very intelligent questions you raised. Except a draft. And I suspect we both have doubts about the wisdom of Bush trying to get a draft going.

589 ggt  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:37:59am

lance if you have "points" saved up anywhere, you can probably get an ipod. --It holds so much more than my previous MP3 players and Itunes is soooooo easy. I resisted the whole Ipod craze for a long time. It is really much better.

I had "thank you" points at my bank that I didn't know about (or forgot)--something like 3 years worth of points saved--"I got me" the Nano.

590 ggt  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:39:47am

This would be evil. (linky from Pamela at Atlas Shrugs)

591 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:41:38am
592 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:42:19am

589 ggt

I don't do credit cards, so I don't have any 'points' from any of those, and I get interest from my credit union.

but, maybe I'll add it to my birthday list (along with a year's membership to a local shooting range)

593 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:44:03am

#585 LanceKates - Morning my friend! I sure hope your wrist is getting better.
I do think, however, that you're incorrect if you think people out here forget that so many Christians were murdered by Hitler.
I know that the reason Jews are so concerned about the Holocaust: it was intended to literally kill every Jew in the World.
And let's not forget that of the millions killed,
(IIRC 6 million Jews, 4 million Christians - mostly Catholics, though I don't know why - and over a million homosexuals or "deviates" as they were called) the same groups are the ones the jihadists would come after first should they have the chance - and probably in the same order: Jews first, Christians second and homosexuals third.

594 ggt  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:44:12am

Hawking speaks for the Jews --again from Pamela

595 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:49:30am

583 realwest

all better yes, thank you.


The holocaust (when it is not being denied by the likes of Iran) is often taught, and rightly so, that millions of Jews were killed by the Nazis.

but there is a subculture that wants to say that Christians weren't a part of the death and, in fact, were supporting the nazis, which just isn't true, as proven by the millions of Christians who were killed in the same camps.

596 ibmkeyboard  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:51:05am

Morning realwest,

And now this Shiite with the Iranians.
They know they have us in a corner, And it really pisses me off.

Reminds me of you know where?

de ja vietnam all over again.

597 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:53:54am

TFK

We have the votes
but do we have who to give them to?

One whore
two whore
three whore
floor

There is no Lion that I can see.


Our symbols we have not seen
There is no longer a Prophet
and none of us knows for how long.
~ Psalm 74:9
598 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:55:14am

Child Found Hanged, Alive Near 3 Dead Children, Adult in Texas Trailer

Sick Freak.

Where's the father/husband? how can someone do this kind of thing?

the childrens ages are 5, 3 and 2. There is also an 8 month old baby that didn't die and is at a hospital now.

some sick people . . . the angry bitter part of me wants the person who did this to not be captured, but 'found' . . . less than alive.

599 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:59:26am

#585 lancekates

I just get a little upset when I see people talk about the Holocaust, but not mention the millions of Christians who were killed in the nazi death camps as well.

lancekates-there were not millions of Christians killed in the Nazi death camps. You are either woefully uninformed or ignorant about the Holocaust. The death camps were built especially for the Jews-and although there were Christians killed in them also, your suggestion that there were millions of Christians killed there is ridiculous.

And what "people" are you talking about, anyway?

600 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 8:59:47am

#596 ibmkeyboard - Yup, subsitute Iran and Syria for Laos and Cambodia and whadda ya get? Yup, sanctuaries for the bad guys to hide out, R&R in, recruit, train, and re-arm in, all without a care in the world.How come we ex-grunts understand this and the mofo Joint Chiefs of Staff don't? Or Bush and his National Security Advisory Team? I don't know what happened to "the lessons learned" from Vietnam, but either the wrong lessons were learned or those currently in power have forgot 'em.
If we aren't willing to go in after 'em and their supporters, this is not only gonna be a long war, but "quagmire" might actually become a valid term to describe it.

601 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 9:01:03am

Every day, her socialist colors shine through.

Hillary Clinton: Shared Prosperity Should Replace 'On Your Own' Society

The king of the "I feel that I'm going to be violated by the Government" quotes is here:

"There is no greater force for economic growth than free markets. But markets work best with rules that promote our values, protect our workers and give all people a chance to succeed," she said. "Fairness doesn't just happen. It requires the right government policies."

I did the bolding.

If she becomes the President, with a Dem Congress, we can just unzip our pants, pull them down, grab our ankles and just take it up the tailpipe..... for the good of the country of course...

602 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 9:02:35am

#595 lancekates

but there is a subculture that wants to say that Christians weren't a part of the death and, in fact, were supporting the nazis, which just isn't true, as proven by the millions of Christians who were killed in the same camps

.

lancekates-you are venturing into very dangerous territory. Who is the "subculture" that you are talking about. You do realize that not a single Nazi was ever excommunicated by the Church during the war-don't you? Not even Hitler. AND THERE WERE NOT MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS KILLED IN THE CAMPS. Can you hear me? I'm speaking BOLD so you can hear me.

Are you really that ignorant?

603 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 9:02:58am

another thing she'd do away with...

Clinton said she would reduce special breaks for corporations

sounds like she's fighting that evil big business, right?

my aunt is the CEO of a corporation. She's the only employee. She's a hair stylist who runs her own business in which she is her only employee.

she'll have her 'special breaks' reduced as well.

She's not a big businss Ms. Clinton.

Off to go run an errand I go.

604 realwest  Tue, May 29, 2007 9:06:21am

#599 WriterMom - Whoa! Let's hold the friendly fire for a minute! Yes you are absolutely correct about the death camps being almost exclusively used for Jews. However, there were something like 4 million Christians murdered by the Nazi's and a million homosexuals and gypsies (don't have a link, but there must be dozens all over the place; my figures come from the National Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. of which my former wife and I are Charter Members and was prominently displayed in the tons of literature we got from them for becoming Charter members).
I'm not gonna speculate on what Lance meant by "people" but will let him answer for himself.

Other than all of that, I sincerely hope you're doing ok today!

605 ibmkeyboard  Tue, May 29, 2007 9:07:34am
If she becomes the President, with a Dem Congress, we can just unzip our pants, pull them down, grab our ankles and just take it up the tailpipe..... for the good of the country of course...


cakes,
I needed that.

Bwahahah

606 ggt  Tue, May 29, 2007 9:12:13am

#598 lance


some sick people . . . the angry bitter part of me wants the person who did this to not be captured, but 'found' . . . less than alive.

Lance, I think this crosses that line I was talking about. As long was we buy into the "sick" image, we will continued to be blinded by evil.

the people that committed this are evil.

607 ggt  Tue, May 29, 2007 9:12:51am

just got a call from the school, gotta go.

have a great day all!

608 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 9:22:46am

599 writerMom

you deny that there were christians killed in the holocaust then wonder who I'm talking about?

here's a link.

According to this, half of Poland's 6 million killed by the nazi holocaust were Jewish and half were mostly christian.

here's another link.
snip:

The December 23, 1940 issue of Time magazine contains an interesting article about Christians living in Germany, both Catholic and Protestant, who opposed and suffered under the Nazis. On page 38, it claims that by late 1940 over 200,000 Christians were prisoners in Nazi concentration camps, with some estimates as high as 800,000.


and here's a link on clergy sent to concentration camps.

so... tell me again how Christians weren't killed in the camps?

609 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 9:25:37am

Off I go to run an errand now.

610 paxnhymn  Tue, May 29, 2007 9:37:05am

I read this comment and shake my head in disbelief...but....

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]
there is SOME good news...


I love it!

611 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 9:43:42am

{ { { { {WriterMom} } } } }

612 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, May 29, 2007 9:52:23am
613 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:18:20am

hmm... got quiet in here.

614 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:27:07am

#613 Lance

Here ya go...

Priest calls for gunshop owner to be snuffed.

On Saturday, as part of an Operation PUSH protest at Chuck's Gun Shop & Range, the Rev. Michael Pfleger, pastor of St. Sabina's Church, urged the crowd to "drag" shop owner John Riggio from his shop "like a rat" and "snuff" him, ISRA said.

/don't know whether to laugh or cry.

615 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:28:09am

#608 lancekates

Kindly read again what I wrote. I am disputing your statistic that "millions" of Christians were killed in the camps. I am not disputing the fact either that millions of Christians were killed, or that Christians were killed in the camps.

My point-which you seem not to understand-is that millions of Christians were not killed in the camps. Have I clarified?

I am well aware of the many millions of Christians lives lost as well as the Christians who lost their lives in the camps SPECIFICALLY because they stood alongside the Jews, and fought against evil and in fact became martyrs-dying for their beliefs in the camps.

I believe you are incorrect-factually incorrect-in your numbers with respect to the death camps built by the Germans FOR the Jews.

616 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:37:51am

#604 realwest

I'm great...I believe I have clarified. Hope you are good too :)

617 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:42:04am

615 WriterMom

look at the second link about the Polish who were killed.

half of hte 6 million poles were Jewish, most of the other half were Christian.

So there's at least 1 to 2 million right there.

And, the German Concentration Camps were built for everyone Hitler viewed as unworthy of the Master Race, which includes:

Jews, Christians, Gypsies, Asians, the Disabled, Homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Dissenters, Communists/Socialists (who wouldn't pledge support to him), etc.

Now, the Jews and Asians were targeted by genetics (though not many asians, as there weren't many in Germany in the late 1930's), and groups of Christians were primarily killed due to standing up against Hitler and his slaughter of innocent human beings of any race or creed.

Even realwest, who if you read his 604 is a Charter Member of the National Holocaust Museum in DC, states that millions of Christians were killed in the nazi death camps.

It is, however, mostly brushed aside and not taught. Here in the States, Christians are being set up to be the next enemy, and such a status as a group who suffered in the holocaust, would be an obstacle in making us all out to be evil oppressors (besides, they're too busy pushing the "Christians helped the Nazis!" lie)

For the most part, people just don't know. People have become so used to anti-semetic thought regarding the Holocaust that when someone suggests that christians had been killed to the tune of a few million as well, it is met with anger or resentment, as if the inclusion of that data somehow weakens the idea that the Holocaust was bad.

618 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:42:55am

Gettinby,

Do they have to buy guns or ammo from the guy first, or is the Priest? calling for them to steal also?

It's a Gettinby day up here my dear. Sunny, breezy, low humbledidity. Just took pictures of the Peonies and Irises. Someday, I'll share with you (if you continue to be angelic).

619 UFO TOFU  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:43:42am

gettinby
From the church website:

During the summer months, Rev. Pfleger leads church members in ministering in the neighborhood on Friday nights to bring a presence of love and peace to the troubled streets.


I'm a little lost here...

620 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:46:19am

614 gettinby

I don't get it...

Here's a link to the church's website.

It is an "african American" catholic church, part of the group, apparently, that believes that Jesus was Black (if you look at the picture in the background)

the 'Rev.' is white, which suprised me a little, for a church pushing itself as "African-American"

Unfortunately, even within the Faith, there is still stupidity.

621 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:47:47am

TOFU!

How's it going bud? Are there any rules about Students giving busdrivers flowers in the People's republic of Scowlifornicate? My daughter gave her busdriver one, I got a sweeeeeeet smile from a cute woman. Guess she'll need to give her one tomorrow.

622 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:49:20am

Here's a link about an 'event' at the church, where they had a certain wellknown MUSLIM leader speaking.

snip:

Former Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan

Former.... because he saw the light and repented? nah... he'd been fighting cancer and left an executive in charge of the group while he was sick.

623 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:50:25am

#619 UFO TOFU

I'm a little lost here

Thus, my

/don't know whether to laugh or cry.

My purely uneducated, un-religious guess is that the priest believes to have peace, you must kill the peacekeepers.

/is it too early for a drink?

624 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:50:25am

Also from the website:

TAKE A STAND
To stop the violence,
Save our children and
Get Guns Off Our Streeets

That's right... end violence by dragging an innocent gun shop owner into the street and killing him!

no wonder this chuch likes Farrakhan.

625 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:52:30am

lancekates "Holocaust Forgotten" is your only source? What is that site? It's written by a woman whose only claim to credibility is that she is Jewish? Is she a Holocaust scholar of note?

And, you haven't answered the question of who you think is pushing an agenda that would exclusde Christians from being recognized as victims of the attrocities of WWII?

For the most part, people just don't know. People have become so used to anti-semetic thought regarding the Holocaust that when someone suggests that christians had been killed to the tune of a few million as well, it is met with anger or resentment, as if the inclusion of that data somehow weakens the idea that the Holocaust was bad

What is your point, really?

626 paxnhymn  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:54:50am

622 lance

he musta got the cancer from that UFO that abducted him...

(heh heh.)

627 UFO TOFU  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:57:19am

Widow'smight
Good morning my friend, sounds like a beautiful day where you're at. Let me know if you post any pictures of your garden, or even just the area around you.
You have no idea how a simple gift or gesture from a student really makes a drivers day. One of my drivers received a gift bag and a card from a parent last week thanking her for keeping her children safe on a daily basis. Really made her day.
Talked to my daughter Saturday. We're meeting for dinner tomorrow night, after that she'll be picking up her car. It's not much of a car, but at least she won't have to walk past the local gangsters on her way to work.

628 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:59:25am
After studying carefully-documented books, and interviewing non-Jewish survivors, I found more information about the five million forgotten than I had ever imagined -- information that most people are not aware of. Polish citizens suffered enormously during the Holocaust -- Jews and non-Jews.

This is a Polish person who did a quickie conversion to Judaism and now has a web site about how it's not all about thew Jews? Do you see where this site might have a credibility problem, lancekates?

629 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 10:59:29am

625 WriterMom

clearly we are done with this discussion.

You apparently didn't look at any of the links I posted as you first didn't read them, and then when I repointed one out, claim it is my only source.

Sorry, You are Wrong.

even when realwest agrees with me, you continue to get up on my back without asking HIM for any sources?

and as for what 'people' I'm talking about when I said that I get upset when some people ignore the christians killed in the holocaust, I get the feeling that you're WANTING me to say "the jews" so that you can write me off as antisemetic.

But that isn't the case: by 'people' I mean anyone from any race, reason, or creed.

Now, are you really wanting to discuss this? I'm getting the idea that you're not.

630 UFO TOFU  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:00:12am

Let's be clear on this, UFOs do not cause cancer!

631 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:01:33am

628 Writermom

What? So now, because they converted and became a Jew, they shouldn't be trusted? Is that what you're saying?

Or is it that you won't believe ANYONE who says that millions of christians were killed in the holocaust?

632 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:05:21am

628 writerMom

and, I guess I"m a touch offended by your stance here...


You don't know this person, or their heart. But, you feel confident enough to say that since you disagree with their view that Hitler included Christians in the Holocaust, to the tune of a few million as well as the 6 million Jews, that their conversion was a "quickie conversion to Judaism" which you feel is apparently so dubious that they have no credibility?

633 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:05:30am

A little more digging on the priest.

An article on pork and Obama.

has the priest donating to Obama's campaign.

One of those long-time supporters was Rev. Michael Pfleger, the politically active leader of St. Sabina Church. He gave Obama's campaign $1,500 between 1995 and 2001, including $200 in April 2001, about three months after Obama announced $225,000 in grants to St. Sabina programs.

Pfleger said he made those donations personally, not on behalf of the church or to win grants.

634 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:06:47am

You're better than this petty stuff WriterMom...

don't keep digging deeper into that hole and slinging mud.

attacks on one's faith should never be 'ok' just because you don't agree or like the information they're bringing to the table.

You're ALOT better than that WriterMom.... alot.

635 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:07:02am

Tofu,

Glad you finally got the car thing worked out with your daughter. I drive a 13 yr old s-10 Blazer and 15 yr old F250 truck. The Queen has a brand new Toyota Sienna. The older girls both have Tauruses. As long as it works!

I have a 35mm Nikon and have to get the CD back from the Evil Wal-mart. I have the older daughter's graduation on it. Just helped her move back in, middle daughter will be going to Duquesne in Pittsburg(h) (for Gettinby) in August. All seems like a blurr sometimes.

Spring,Summer and Fall here are Great. Winter can be a little nasty at times.

636 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:08:00am

#618 Widow'smight

Sunny, breezy, low humbledidity. Just took pictures of the Peonies and Irises. Someday, I'll share with you (if you continue to be angelic).

I'll bet they're beautiful, too.

/angelic is my middle name. ;)

637 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:08:11am

633 gettinby

Obama gets him 225k, and he can only manage a 200 dollar kickback?

Underhanded AND cheap, this guy is.

638 Kenneth  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:08:24am

#617 LanceKates

I take your point that many Christians were murdered by the Nazi's. They were brave and principled people. But it is a false image to paint the time as the Nazis vs the Jews & Christians. It is a terrible fact that, while Nazism was not a Christian ideology, the Nazis did tap into a rich vein of anti-Jewish hatred among the Christians of Germany, Poland and elsewhere. The Nazi's had plenty of willing executioners.

639 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:12:20am

Gettinby,

I'll bet they're beautiful, too.

/angelic is my middle name. ;)

There is a reason you were mentioned in the same post. Peonies are my favorite flower. Not just for the appearance, but also for the fragrance. A vase of them in the house even covers for me and the dawg.

640 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:13:45am

638 Kenneth

Yes, there were many stupid people who gave in to the temptations of the Sin of Hate, and many people died because of it.

But that doesn't 'do away with' millions of Christians killed in the holocaust.

There has been, for quite a while, a push to make Christians 'evil.' One of the ways it is done is to ignore the christians killed (Past and present) by evil people... The other main way is to say that Christians were behind it.

People have written many books suggesting that the Pope was really supporting Hitler and the Nazis out of hatred of the Jews, but then recent books uncover evidence that the Pope was actually helping to get as many Jews out of Nazi control and to safety.

And let's not forget the Lutheran Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Wasn't he executed by Hitler's order for starting the Confessing Church which, apart from just trying to resister Hitler, even planned to kill Hitler?

641 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:14:33am

#637 Lance

Underhanded AND cheap, this guy is.

Not to mention that Obama can be bought pretty cheaply.

642 redstateredneck  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:16:28am

Hey, {all y'all}
Here's kind of an interesting holocaust site for teachers. I don't think this is one of the ones you posted earlier, Lance.

643 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:16:45am

538 Kenneth

as far as I am concerned, once someone sided with Hitler, they left their faith behind.

There are the masses of people who were clueless, and may not have known what was going on in detail... but there were indeed others who gave in and supported Hitler and his aims.

But make no mistake... the occultist fetish Hitler had, including many Pagan and occult practices and symbols, was waging a war against christianity as well. He needed the masses' support, and knew that unless he converted them to Nazism, he couldn't convert them to worshipping him.

He tried to create a religion around him, with HIM as the central figure, based on all sorts of pagan rites and occultistic rituals.

Much of that, apart from the occassional sci-fi movie, is mostly kept quiet.

644 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:17:19am

my last post

meant 638, not 538

645 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:26:09am

Scarlett,

Hope you had a wonderful weekend. Feeling a little dehydrated right about now?

I don't know if this was mentioned, but let's not forget the approximately 5 million Russian Soldiers Hitler starved to death, plus the ? million Russian soldiers who died fighting.

Hitler hated alot of people, but not the British or Fwench. His order stopping the German Army from destroying the British Expeditionary Forces and French at Dunkirk was done in hopes Great Britain would be reasonable and allow him to have Europe. It proved costly to him, along with many other military mistakes the Krauts made.

646 Kenneth  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:29:12am

#643 LanceKates

as far as I am concerned, once someone sided with Hitler, they left their faith behind.

I understand what you mean, I i agree, a Nazi is no rtrue Christian.

But don't you think it's a little too easy to say, 'they they went nazi so it doesn't count that they were originally Christians'? Isn't that a way to avoid the very difficult fact that Christians committed pogroms and persecution of Jews for centuries? The holocaust was the culmination of that evil heritage. For me, "never again" means never again will Christians participate in or passively permit the persecution of the Jews.

647 redstateredneck  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:29:53am

I just received a dozen long stemmed red roses!
♥♥

648 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:38:59am

Scarlet,

I just received a dozen long stemmed red roses!

You must save all your sweetness for those drivers at work I guess. Don't you get them every Tuesday?

649 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:41:18am

646 Kenneth

People who should have been examples of the Light of Christ were instead very evil. There's no doubting that or excusing that.

Are you going to blame every christian now for things done centuries and centruies ago?

and no, it isn't easy to say that Christians turned from their faith to embrace Nazism and turned to a life of evil in so doing.

It isn't easy because, as a Christian, I have an idea of where such people go. I don't like to think about it.

When a muslim suicide bomber blows himself or herself up in the off-chance that they'll kill a jew, I know where that person's soul goes and I don't like it.

I don't like that they spend eternity "facing a finality beyond your comprehension, and you will not be counting days, or months, or years, but milleniums in a place with no doors." (paraphrase from Meet Joe Black)

Frankly, I get tired of the anti-christian bigotry that I see, but I know that it is coming, in more force, in the future. By my faith I know this, and because of it.

Many Christians will turn to the Darkness. Many will abandon the Light, because it is hard to be in the Light. It is easy to hide in the Darkness, where evil can prosper.

History has shown this. But do not judge Christianity, or the Light, by the acts of those in Darkness.

650 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:42:15am

647 redstate

awww.. nice!

from the husband, the boss or someone who thinks you're just peachy?

651 redstateredneck  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:44:19am

Widow's

You must save all your sweetness for those drivers at work I guess. Don't you get them every Tuesday?


Ha ha. Thirty years of wedded bliss.
:)

652 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:44:29am
653 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:47:54am

651 Redstate

That's RIGHT! I forgot that its your anniversary!

Congrats! (That's a PEARL cake, for the 30th!)

654 UFO TOFU  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:48:04am

redstate
Do you know anything about this?

655 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:54:12am

Scarlet,

I know, you said it last week. At least the man is smart enough to lay some sugar on his lovely wife. Good idea to build up that Love account with the bride, ya never know when a perceived mistake/miscue/overlook could be blamed on hubbies.

My wife and I moved the oldest daughter's stuff back in yesterday, this should be interesting. We get up a 5:30-6:00 am, she might get up while it's am.
Another thing I told the Queen, the only people having sex in my house is going to be us (presumably with each other). I prolly should have let out the part about that not happening enough though.

656 redstateredneck  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:55:04am

TOFU
No, but I would like to see it.

657 Kenneth  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:56:51am

#649 LanceKates

No, I don't blame every Christian for the crimes of previous generations. But as a Christian myself, I have to come to terms with the fact that evil was committed in the name of our Saviour. That means identifying where the hatred comes from and how it was used by the Nazis and the many, many other evil people, including those who truly believed they were doing "God's work".

658 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 11:59:57am

{ {redstate} }

Happy 30th

/don't mention it...my pleasure!
/diamond was the 'modern' for the 30th, right?

659 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:03:05pm

lancekates

Conversions to Judaism take more than one year, therefore the quickie conversion-and obviously not Orthodox conversion to Judaism. Sorry if that offends you.

I don't see any links on her site to scholarly material-so as far as I'm concerned it's all opinion-just like you have an opinion and I have an opinion.

Your statement that:

the occultist fetish Hitler had, including many Pagan and occult practices and symbols, was waging a war against christianity as well

is total and utter crap. You are really ignorant. And-I never accused you of being anything except ignorant-but now I'm accusing you of being willfully stupid.

Lastly-I will repeat. I am not disputing the FACT that Christians were victims in the Holocaust. Do you get that? I am disputing your statement that MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS were killed in the camps.

The Righteous Gentiles who saved Jews are my heroes too. But-they were a minority of the Christians in Europe at the time. Sorry if that's a bitter pill for you to swallow.

Lastly-I am not attacking your faith-but your uninformed opinions and your attempts to pass off opinion as fact.

If you don't like my attitudes or opinions, feel free to scroll by me.

660 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:05:07pm

657 Kenneth

Very True. We also shouldn't lay down and let others distort history.

Especially with widespread christian killings today.

We live in our corner of the world, you in Canada (eh?) and me in the USA.... generally pretty safe from those who would kill us for our faith.

but our bretheren in Spirit do not have the same security.

Christians have also been persecuted since Christ. By many groups. Jews (Remember Paul before he was Paul?), Romans (that whole 'kill christians for entertainment' bit), and all the way up to today, muslims killing christians in pakistan, Indonesia, the old Soviet Union, China, and all around Africa (while I was in college, a classmate's family had been part of the Ivory Coast mess)

661 redstateredneck  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:06:20pm

{gettinby}
Now that's some bling!

662 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:09:06pm

#658 myself

*addendum*

Can't run that through the carwash. LOL

663 Kenneth  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:22:50pm

660 LanceKates

North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bangladesh, Iran, Turkey, Egypt, Eritrea (a family my church sponsored is from Eritrea),

The list goes on.

664 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:26:08pm

659 Writermom

Your statement that:

the occultist fetish Hitler had, including many Pagan and occult practices and symbols, was waging a war against christianity as well

is total and utter crap.

Link.

Here's a book on it.
With links to other books on the subject.

another link.

another link.

Yet another link.

another link.

Yup... no connection to the occult at all.... can't seem to find any sources to say that there is.... /sarc


You are really ignorant. And-I never accused you of being anything except ignorant-but now I'm accusing you of being willfully stupid.

I've been called worse. But not often by people I liked.


I am disputing your statement that MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS were killed in the camps.

If one substitued "Jews" for "Christians" in your statement, how would YOU feel?

feel free to scroll by me.

I guess I'll have to. Too bad, I like you.

665 zulubaby  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:30:08pm

LanceKates, so that I understand ... are you now into Holocaust denial? Are you attempting to co-opt the Holocaust? It's pretty repulsive.

666 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:32:00pm

665 zulubaby

not at all. Quite the opposite actually.

Some people, apparently, have an issue with accepting that Christians were ALSO killed, to the tune of a few million.

That's all.

Why does it 'deny' the holocaust to say that Christians were killed as well?

667 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:32:17pm

Scarlet,

Think it's about time for a song, my wife likes when I attempt to sing this one (she FOSes also).

Every time you take a sip
In this smoky atmosphere
You press that bottle to your lips
And I wish I was your beer
In the small there of your back
Your jeans are playing peekaboo
I'd like to see the other half of your butterfly tattoo.

Hey that gives me an idea
Let's get out of this bar
Drive out into the country
And find a place to park.

'Cause I'd like to see you out in the moonlight
I'd like to kiss you way back in the sticks
I'd like to walk you through a field of wildflowers
And I'd like to check you for ticks.

I know the perfect little path
Out in these woods I used to hunt
Don't worry babe I've got your back
And I've also got your front
Now, I'd hate to waste a night like this
I'll keep you safe you wait and see
The only thing allowed to crawl all over you when we get there is me.

You know every guy in here tonight
Would like to take you home
But I've got way more class than them
Babe that ain't what I want.

'Cause I'd like to see you out in the moonlight
I'd like to kiss you way back in the sticks
I'd like to walk you through a field of wildflowers
And I'd like to check you for ticks.

You never know where one might be
There's lots of places that are hard to reach
I gotcha.

I'd like to see you out in the moonlight
I'd like to kiss you baby way back in the sticks
I'd like to walk you through a field of wildflowers
And I'd like to check you for ticks.

I'd sure like to check you for ticks...

668 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:33:22pm

665 zulubaby

and why are you so quick to call me a 'holocaust denier' when all i'm doing is posting information about Christians that were killed, as well as the Jews?

Why?

669 zulubaby  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:36:26pm
and why are you so quick to call me a 'holocaust denier' when all i'm doing is posting information about Christians that were killed, as well as the Jews?

Lance, read my post ... I asked you a question and didn't call you anything, actually.

Go to Yad Vashem one day, if you're able. Do not try to make this an equal Christian/Jewish issue. It isn't. Just stop, okay?

670 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:39:48pm

lancekates

Here are the facts:

The death camps were designed for the Jews by the Nazis.
There were Christian victims as well.
Millions of Christians were killed in WWII.
Millions of Christians were not killed in the camps that were designed for the Jews.
Hitler was never excommunicated from the Catholic Church, nor was any other single Nazi.
Hitler was not a pagan, nor were the Nazis.

How I 'feel' is not relevant to the discussion. That's a liberal tactic. Your attempts to equalize Jewish and Christian suffering during the Holocaust venture very close to Holocaust denial-because you deny the uniqueness of the Nazi attempt to exterminate the entire Jewish people.

Sorry if this level of discussion goes over your head, or if you are not able to understand what I'm saying-but that's your problem, not mine.

I would be delighted to ignore you, and you can treat me likewise.

671 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:42:07pm

669 zulubaby

Whoa there.

you said:

are you now into Holocaust denial? Are you attempting to co-opt the Holocaust? It's pretty repulsive.

That's like asking someone "Hey, have you stopped beating your wife?"

And, I'll ask you then. Why does it somehow 'weaken' the Holocaust if there were million of Christians killed as well?

Is Hitler only evil if he only kills Jews?

The man was Evil because He killed people based on race and religion. He killed people who didn't agree with him.

Does it make the Holocaust 'less evil' if Christians are in that number?

Why can't Christians be counted among the millions of people killed? Aren't we important enough?

Most accounts say 6 Million Jews were killed. That is evil to have killed 6 million Jews.

Most account also say that 11 Million people were killed in those camps. Who're the majority of the other 5 million people?

672 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:46:15pm

not only am I being called ignorant and willfully stupid for wondering about 5 million missing people who were sent to the nazi camps, but apparently I am also borderline 'holocaust denier' for doing so.


Though.... I don't deny that it happened, and I don't deny that Hitler wanted to kill all the Jews, and I don't deny that many people aided him and that, if not for the Allies, he would have succeeded, and I am thankfull that the Allies did stop Hitler and his attempt to kill all of the Jews.

But what about the missing 5 million people? Who is Denying here? Me?

673 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:53:26pm

WriterMom,

Hitler was not a pagan, nor were the Nazis.

Hitler was most certainly not a Christian. Have you ever seen the Pagan parades/rituals that he thought up?

How many people are ex-communicated from the Catholic Church?

Hitler also hated the Slavs, and killed tens of millions of them.

None of the above means I'm a Holocaust Denier, or whatever you want to call me. What it means is Lance is correct in saying Millions of non-Jews died in WW2 because of Hitler. Hundreds of Millions have died in this past Century because of Pagan/Socialist/Communist Regimes.

None of those Regimes had their guiding principles in Christianity.

674 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 12:59:33pm

from this site, at zulubaby's request.

By 1945, the surviving inmates of Nazi camps were subjected to “Death Marches”. These marches were the mass evacuation of prisoners from Poland and the Baltic states to Germany due to the Red Army’s advance. Due to harsh weather conditions, random shootings, and physical weakness from years of abuse in the camps, approximately 250,000 victims perished during the forced marches, an estimated 65-85,000 of them Jews.

Who were the other 165,000 people?

675 m  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:00:33pm

{Redstate}! Happy anniversary girl! I didn't get to celebrate for you as long as I would have liked~ I cut the vacation early because I had one kid sunburned (with 50spf- reapplied BUNCHES) and another one love sick and on the phone with his girlfriend the whole time!

lol~ I figured shoot... we could do this at home and I can catch up on laundry before I go back to work :) You can only take so much sand in your pants :}

676 m  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:04:15pm

I haven't read upthread, but now I'm scared to.

Zulubaby and Writermom, I respect both of you bigtime, but I don't think anyone is trying to "equalize" the suffering of peoples (although the ones it happened to felt pretty equal) because all Jewish people were targets and not all Christians were. But I don't think Lance has ever or would ever deny the holocaust. There are too many who really do deny the holocaust or try to downplay it to take anything Lance said as denying the holocaust.

Can we get back to our regularly scheduled lizard luuuv? :-D Psst: The enemy is out there!

677 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:04:53pm

OK.

This is ugly.


There were definite and overt aspects of Paganism integrated into Nazism for sure and done so intentionally.

Hitler was like todays "progressive" gay power vegetarian new age Gramscian fascist whores of leftist Churchianity, same breed.

The Elites love their Hoodoo and their Rasputins.

Anyway,


He and all the Nazis never severed their surface links to Christianity and the Church never formally severed them either

The Nazis definitely did try to co-opt and present their perversions as in line with Christianity, this to make them acceptable to the German populace and to fool the world, this same sort of bullshit is going on right now in churches today as I type this.

But this is not to say that Nazism is a Christian phenomenon, I do not agree with that for a second.

Nazism has nothing to do with the practice of authentic Christianity just like IMO Phelps and his ghouls have nothing to do with real Christianity and yet he calls himself and his band of insane thugs Christians.

All of that being said....

The FINAL SOLUTION was designed to kill the Jewish people.

Yes others died in their millions but they were ancillary to the

FINAL SOLUTION

which concerned the Jews, was designed for the Jews and was executed to divest the planet of EVERY JEW IN EUROPE.

The visceral reaction you are getting LanceKates,
is in direct reaction to this distinction.

No one denied others died.

But your take on it was presented in a way as to infer a moral equivalence ala:

Oh you Jews are always saying it was all about you, we were targeted too.

That was the vibe of the original post.

In this same way the homosexuals draw an equivalence between the gays who died and the Jews who were killed.

It's just not the same, sorry.

It WAS all about us.

No Jews, No Jesus.
No Jesus, no Christianity

We are the front lines,

you are the back up army.

We die first

You die second.

We ARE in the same fight and they will come for the Sunday people but only AFTER the Saturday people are taken care of.

SO....

Jewish people may get a little pissed off if they detect this sort of attitude in a persons words and IMO this is what has happened here


Like I used to tell AI all the time
delivery is everything


If you were not trying to draw a moral equivalence combined with a sneering disdain, fine.

But it sure READS like you were.

And that's why you got jumped.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This has been a public service announcement of the Zionist Hobby Center

I now return to Spleencinatti.

678 redstateredneck  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:05:19pm

{m}

You can only take so much sand in your pants :}


Words of wisdom.
:D

Happy anniversary girl!


Thanks; it's still not too late to celebrate!

679 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:06:03pm

Princess M,

I cut the vacation early because I had one kid sunburned (with 50spf- reapplied BUNCHES) and another one love sick and on the phone with his girlfriend the whole time!

Our family took a trip to Niagra Falls, (slowly I turned, step by step, inch by inch) a couple of years ago. Oldest daughter did the same thing. She ignored the rest of us and was rude to me. The BF was an A-hole anyway.

Course, I had to be the meanie and let her know about it, MOM was silent. I have a big Meanie badge.

680 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:07:22pm

673 Widow

Thank you, I've felt rather alone for the last few hours.

681 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:10:07pm

677 Babbazee

The visceral reaction you are getting LanceKates,
is in direct reaction to this distinction.

No one denied others died.

Actually, Writermom did deny that millions of Christians were killed in the nazi Death Camps.

I, on the other hand, never denied that Hitler wanted to kill all of the Jews.

682 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:10:44pm

Lance,

It's like a Hockey fight. Let the two beat each other up for awhile. No 3rd man/woman (not sure) is allowed to jump in on Sir Lancedalot.

Replay at 11 on the evening news, but who won the game?

683 ChildOfMary  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:14:38pm

Lance Kates

You are correct. Periodically, the History Channel runs a series of documentaries on the Hitler regime, one of which is titled "Hitler and the Occult". The "religion", if you will, that Hitler subscribed to and fostered for his nation was built upon old mythologies, elements of paganism, eugenics, and other ideas -- all designed to create a new culture, a new man, and a new state.

Many of those Hitler had killed were those he considered to be of inferior stock: the disabled, the mentally ill, the Slavic peoples, Gypsies, and Jews, among others. Then, of course, there were those who fought his regime or would not conform their thinking to his new religion. Of course some of the undesirable groups would be kept alive to serve the new state, as was fitting for their inferior status.

People like Hitler and his followers exist because there is a real thing called "evil" in the world. Our lives are a struggle, an internal struggle, to not let the evil side tempt us to give up that which we know to be good.

I remember reading once about someone who testified against the Nazis at the Nuremburg trials who suddenly had a terrible insight -- that he, too, was capable of such evil -- all of us are -- all of us must remain ever vigilant.

684 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:16:33pm

And, sadly, I am a 'nothingtian' so can only learn from others on this subject.

685 ChildOfMary  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:17:26pm

I was always struck by the image of the ideal man that Hitler was working to engineer: tall, blond, blue eyed, muscular -- everything Hitler himself was not.

686 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:17:32pm

Child of Mary,

How ya doin lady?

Beautiful day up here in Amish Country.

Just looked outside, my roses are starting to bloom.

Let's see Peonies, Irises and Roses at the same time. Sounds like the DDT wimmin are around.

687 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:19:31pm

No, Lance

What she was saying is the final solution, the ghettos, the camps, the trains, the ovens were not designed conceived and executed to process Christian bodies they were designed conceived and executed to process Jewish bodies.

She didn't say they didn't die

She was drawing a distinction
as to
intent
and
process.


I am out of this , I said all I needed to say on it.

Later Lizardia.

688 Kenneth  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:21:15pm

BabbaZee,

Very, very well said. Thank you.

689 ChildOfMary  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:21:28pm

gettinby

Have you been able to refer UFO TOFU to the digicam comments I shared with you the other day? I don't know if I should still watch out for UFO.

690 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:21:57pm

This is an ugly thread. I have not called anyone a Holocaust denier. I am not questioning the fact that Christians died in the Holocaust-and lancekates-I am disputing your figure that millions of Christians died in the death camps. Of course millions of Christians died during the war, and many in death camps.

Widows'Might and m-I like you both very much, and hope you have carefully read my comments. I treasure, as I said-the righteous memory of the Christians who died saving Jews. Hitler did not behave as a Christian, but as BabbaZee pointed out-his ties to the Church were never severed.

lancekates, your statement here:

Is Hitler only evil if he only kills Jews?

is so offensive that I can't dignify it with a direct response. You really should be ashamed of yourself for even suggesting such a morally rephrehensible thing.

691 UFO TOFU  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:24:47pm

ChildOfMary
Good afternoon. I guess I missed your post regarding the camera. Are you able to re-post?

692 ChildOfMary  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:26:39pm

#686 Widow'smight

Doing fairly well -- had a bad patch last week -- hubby continues to search for that elusive job and sometimes I let the perceived pressure overwhelm me. Maybe I'll learn someday not to do that.

You OK?

Flowers -- love flowers -- it took a long time to get used to the idea that here in Florida there are blooms on something just about all year round.

693 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:28:57pm

ChildofMary

No, I haven't seen UFO TOFU, until NOW!

It is wonderful information. I've copied, saved and printed.

/UFO TOFU, I offered my mastercard, but ChildofMary is such a nice person, she declined!

694 MTNester  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:32:19pm

Hello, friends of the DDT. From the few comments I've read, it looks like it's been a tough day in the basement. I can't stay, just wanted to pop in to say hello. No word from the new job yet and sewing projects are keeping me away from the keyboard. {LGF-DDT}

/someone needs to open the bar.

695 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:33:18pm
until NOW!

should read until TODAY!

696 redstateredneck  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:33:35pm

My 2 cents worth:

There were about 8 to 10 million Jews in the territories controlled directly or indirectly by the Nazis (the uncertainty arises from the lack of knowledge about how many Jews there were in the Soviet Union). The 6 million killed in the Holocaust thus represent 60 to 75 percent of these Jews. Of Poland's 3.3 million Jews, over 90 percent were killed. The same proportion were killed in Latvia and Lithuania, but most of Estonia's Jews were evacuated in time. In Czechoslovakia, Greece, the Netherlands and Yugoslavia, over 70 percent were killed. More than 50 percent were killed in Belgium, Hungary and Romania. It is likely that a similar proportion were killed in Belarus and Ukraine, but these figures are less certain. Countries with notably lower proportions of deaths include Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Italy and Norway. Finally, of the 750,000 Jews in Germany and Austria in 1933, only about a quarter survived. Although many German Jews emigrated before 1939, the majority of these fled to Czechoslovakia, France or the Netherlands, from where they were later deported to their deaths.


The percentages speak more that just the number of people killed. Yes, millions of non jews were killed. But (except for the gypsies) there was not an effort to extinguish them as a people from the face of the earth.

697 ChildOfMary  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:34:44pm

#691 UFO TOFU

OK, took me a while to find it so I won't make you do that -- her is part 1 of 2:

gettinby and UFO TOFU asked a while ago for recommendations for a digital camera. I am sorry it took this long to get an answer together -- life has not been kind lately.

If you have been watching the camera ads the last couple of years you have noticed that the number of Megapixels have increased and prices have decreased. Behind the scenes, most cameras now have both a point and shoot mode and modes that offer you more control over the technical aspects -- those familiar with 35mm will recognize such terms as shutter priority, apeture priority, film speed. So you usually can let the camera automatically control or you can exercise finer control. In addition, most cameras have several preset modes besides auto point and shoot that you can choose for portraits, landscapes, etc. One mode many people like is Macro mode, which allows close focusing, so you can fill your entire picture with that flower center complete with the bee that's sipping nectar.

My husband and I decided that the main things to consider were number of megapixels (MP); the zoom range of the lens (optical zoom) and the additional zoom factor built into the camera (digital zoom); the shutter recycle time; and consider these with the type of photography you will be doing.

Number of Megapixels (MP) affects two things: the possible enlargement size of the resulting photo before it starts to get fuzzy and the ability to crop out a part of the picture and just enlarge and print that (or just show that part on a computer screen). The following comes from "Shooting Digital" by Mikkel Aaland. First is print size, then MP needed, then the equivalent monitor pixel size:

3X5 0.6 MP 900X675
5X7 1.3 MP 1280X960
8X10 3.2 MP 2048X1536
11X14 6.1 MP 3008X2000
16X20 11 MP 4064X2704

The more MPs the further away you can be from an object when you take the picture -- then, in your digital darkroom (your photo editing software) you can crop out a portion of the picture, removing all the extraneous stuff, and save this part as a new picture that emphasizes the area you really want to be subject of your picture.

When you think of the effects of Zoom ranges think of using binoculars to bring part of a scene closer to you. Optical zoom is what the lens itself is capable of. Digital zoom is additional zoom that the software in the camera provides. So if you have a camera with 6X optical zoom and 2X digital zoom you have a total zoom range of 12X; a 10X digital zoom combined with a 3X digital zoom gives a total 30 times zoom. Just as with binoculars, the higher these numbers the better you are able to make a far away object the center of your picture. Think of focusing on a bird in a tree -- the more zoom, the more that bird will fill your picture frame. Or maybe you want to photograph your children playing. The higher the zoom factor the further away you can be and have the child fill the picture and maybe get more natural pictures because your presence will not be a distraction.

Shutter recycle time refers to the time it takes for the camera to be ready for you to take the next picture -- if you are photographing static subjects a slightly longer time will not matter much; if you are getting a series of action shots, a moving object, the shorter the time the better.

Then there are the ergonomic factors -- these are more personal. Is the camera a comfortable for you to hold? Are the controls accessible for you? Can you deal with the menu system? Do you have a disability such that an Image Stabilization feature is a real plus? Is the LCD a good size for you? And so on.

It is difficult for us to make a specific recommendation -- but we are partial to Fuji (which often seems to have more features for the same dollars) and Panasonic. But there are fine cameras in most every brand and what suits me may not suit you.

(continued on post below, I ran out of characters)

698 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:36:02pm

{MTNester}

Good to see you. Are you creating dresses? What do they look like?

699 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:36:53pm

WriterMom,

I think you're a swell gal, I was only reacting to your Statement that Hitler was NOT a Pagan. I shouldn't have added "or whatever you want to call me", and I apologize for that. That was not directed at you in particular, although it came out that way.

It was obvious that Hitler's main goal was to kill all the Jews in Europe, and I don't think anyone here thinks otherwise.

LanceKates, so that I understand ... are you now into Holocaust denial? Are you attempting to co-opt the Holocaust? It's pretty repulsive.

This statement/question is also BS. There was obviously no intention on Lance's part to Deny/Co-opt anything, and to call someone's thoughts repulsive that you put into their mouth is BS.

People get a little too excited, and forget the enemy is STAN and his followers.

700 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:36:59pm

687 Babba Zee

She didn't say they didn't die

from her 690:

I am not questioning the fact that Christians died in the Holocaust-and lancekates-I am disputing your figure that millions of Christians died in the death camps.

from her 670:

Millions of Christians were not killed in the camps that were designed for the Jews.

from her 659:


I am disputing your statement that MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS were killed in the camps.

Seems that way to me.


------------------------------------

683 ChildOfMary

Thank you. Too many forget that.
---------------------------
676 m
Thank you for your support m. I was having a 'Footsteps' moment where I looked back and saw only one set. now I see a few more.

701 ChildOfMary  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:39:52pm

#691 UFO TOFU

Camera stuff part 2 of 2

An excellent web site to consult is www.steves-digicams.com. He has reviews in different price ranges and makes recommendations and is not hesitant to point out the good, the bad, and the ugly. His reviews are so good because he follows a consistent format for each camera, including evaluating the controls, and always uses the same tests so you can directly compare the same photo from more than one camera. Use it to both narrow your search and/or to evaluate the 3 or 4 you tried out at your local store.

Finally, a word about photo editing software (your digital darkroom). The most popular is Photoshop Elements, now in Version 4. Also popular is Corel Paint Shop Pro X. You can often get big rebates and discounts if you watch the ads. An option for limited funds is www.freeserifsoftware.com -- they give away older versions of their products and sell for a limited fee (like $9.99) an even more recent version. At the moment they have PhotoPlus 8 for $9.99. Their current version available at www.serif.com, is PhotoPlus 11 for $79.99. They hope you will eventually want to purchase the most recent -- but you never have to. PhotoPlus 8 has many powerful features that should keep a newbie happy for some time. They have other types of graphics oriented software as well.

Hope the info is helpful to you.

702 UFO TOFU  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:41:39pm

Hey there gettinby, hope you're well. Between the remodel and preparing for my step daughters wedding shower next weekend, I've been a little absent. My other step daughter informed me yesterday about a tatoo she's having done which incorporates stars representing her siblings and parents. One of the stars represents me, not a word about her real father. Different.
These are awesome.

703 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:43:11pm

#696 redstateredneck

Thank you.

704 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:43:16pm

682 Widow

I'm a strong fan of the idea that when Jew and Christian fight, there is no winner.

*grin*

Hockey? I'm afraid I only know one hockey joke:

I went to a boxing match and suddenly a hockey game broke out.

705 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:43:24pm

Child of Mary,

Doing fairly well -- had a bad patch last week -- hubby continues to search for that elusive job and sometimes I let the perceived pressure overwhelm me. Maybe I'll learn someday not to do that.

You OK?

Flowers -- love flowers -- it took a long time to get used to the idea that here in Florida there are blooms on something just about all year round.

My dear, I'm doing great! I know I always worry about the two older girls, mostly about some knucklehead mistreating them, causing me to worry about having my wife bail me out of jail.

My Rhodedendrons are also blooming, along with the Pincushion flowers and the others mentioned. I guess when you have to wait for stuff to bloom, you appreciate it alot.

Hello MTnester

706 MTNester  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:44:04pm

#698 gettinby

making two dresses. One is done except for hemming the sleeves and skirt. Now working on matching Hawaiian shirts for the Mr. and me. Dresses are shirtwaist, full skirt, round neckline, short sleeves. Very comfortable for summer and air conditioning. ;-) The one that is done is an oriental print in navy, tan and deep red. The one waiting is a teal on cream pattern. Shirts are yellow with predominantly red fern-like pattern, other fabric for shirts (seersucker) is a pale green with dark green leaves.

707 redstateredneck  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:45:55pm

TOFU

My other step daughter informed me yesterday about a tatoo she's having done which incorporates stars representing her siblings and parents.


A globular cluster!

708 MTNester  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:46:57pm

{widow'smight} You always make me smile. And I really need one today...got a bad case of the blues.

709 WriterMom  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:47:52pm

Widow'sMight-that was a quote from Zulubaby's post, not mine.

Thanks.

710 UFO TOFU  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:48:28pm

ChildOfMary
Goodness, thank you very much! I've copied and printed that for future reference.

life has not been kind lately


Please forgive me for asking for your help, sounds like your plate might be pretty full. I'm not the praying type, but I sincerely wish you the best!

711 redstateredneck  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:50:34pm

Writer Mom
As heirs of Abraham, we're all in this together! I just can't imagine that as a Jew, having to bear the knowledge that just a generation ago, my people, my family, were systematically slaughtered. Just can't get my mind around it.

712 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:52:19pm

Mtnester,

I sent a song in #667 that I like, hope that gives you a giggle.

Please don't make any dresses for me. All that hair sticking out the chest, back and basically all over would do your fine work justice. Besides, the Mrs is happy right now, don't want to "Stain" my reputation.

713 MTNester  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:53:12pm

I need to get some things going for dinner. Y'all have a really nice evening!

714 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:55:22pm

WriterMom,

Widow'sMight-that was a quote from Zulubaby's post, not mine.

I know that sunshine, I was just pointing it out as BS, since it was directed to the topic. I should've mentioned the poster, my bad.

715 ChildOfMary  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:55:40pm

#700 Lance Kates

I was having a 'Footsteps' moment where I looked back and saw only one set. now I see a few more.

Gosh, Lance, if I had known, I would have gotten here sooner.

My husband is Jewish, I am a recently confirmed Catholic; in addition, I am of Slavic decent. We are both students of history and are accutely aware of the extent of the hatred that was produced by Hitler's warped mind. I have always tried to understand how a people could subscribe to such evil. I have always hoped that I would never be cowardly enough to do so. Now we see what may be an even greater degree of evil in the world. It's frightening. I wish I could make all people of good will understand it and fear it too.

716 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:55:41pm

708 MTNester

got a bad case of the blues.

*hug*

Smile!

(for some reason, that pic reminds me of Jimmy Carter)

717 redstateredneck  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:56:07pm

Speaking of hair sticking out, that Rosie pic you sent, TOFU, really cracked me up!

718 gettinby  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:59:13pm

#706 Ooooooh, MTNester!

How wonderful they sound. When finished with the shirts for the two of you, take yourselves out to lunch or dinner. Might help get rid of the blues.

On second thought, NOT lunch....that is when the call would come in, doncha know!

#702 UFO TOFU

Those are truly beautiful....Thanks.

We're well; not as busy as you. It sounds like fun for you, though. How nice...your own star.

I'M OFF...See {all y'all} later.

719 redstateredneck  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:59:19pm

I'm outta here. As {Obi-Wan} would say, y'all play nice!

720 Kenneth  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:59:24pm

Lance, WriterMom, friends... this is a very emotionally charged subject. It is impossible to discuss it without profound and complex feelings. These feelings are so powerful, they get in the way of calm disourse. As a result people get defensive, offensive and hurt.

Let's take a break from this topic, please.

Peace and play nice.

721 UFO TOFU  Tue, May 29, 2007 1:59:58pm

redstate
I thought of that when I read Widow'smites post!

722 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:04:04pm

715 ChildOfMary

There was a study... for the life of me I can't remember the guy's name who did it.... to SHOW that Germans were mentally different from everyone else... and that is why they could go along with the holocaust.

The study created a 'control group' of Americans (I believe... either Americans or English, I believe Americans though) and was going to compare them to the German group to show that the Germans had a mental trait that made them go along with acts that caused the Deaths.

The control group was done first... the experiment was to have someone strapped up to wires and they had to answer questions. For each they got wrong, the test subject had to push the next button in line, increasing the electral charge that the person strapped up got. The shock went from a mild annoyance to one marked 'death'.

The idea was that the American subjects wouldn't kill someone, whereas the Germans would.

The person doing the experiment would occassionally just say all they were allowed to say "Please press the next button." That was it.

Now, what the Americans didn't know was that it was all a trick. The person being electrocuted was not actually being electrocuted, just an actor. However, nearly (if not) all of the subjects pushed every button, sometines pausing... when the staff said "Please press the next button." . . . they would, even knowing that it meant death.

What they found was that there was even LESS resistance to pushing the buttons if the person was in another room and they just had to 'hear' the electrocutions.

The experiment never made it to Germany... they found that nearly anyone can do great evil if they have a figure of authority calmly suggesting that they do something very small.... like looking the other way.... or making a phone call to tell the police that the neighbor isn't supporting "The Party" . . . or pushing a little button marked "Death"

723 ChildOfMary  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:04:14pm

#710 UFO TOFU


Please forgive me for asking for your help, sounds like your plate might be pretty full. I'm not the praying type, but I sincerely wish you the best!

No, please, I'm always willing to help -- just that sometimes, especially because I deal with a disability that robs me of full days, I am not always able to respond as quickly as I wish to. But the last thing I want is to become thoroughly self-centered and problem centered. I need to feel useful at times.

724 Widow'smight  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:05:14pm

I must go get Mini-Mom, see yuns tomorrow.

Tofu, we had a couple of good storms Sunday night, saved me a lot of work watering it did.

Have a great one

725 ChildOfMary  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:08:19pm

#702 UFO TOFU

One of the stars represents me, not a word about her real father. Different.

What an honor. You must be the one she knows was there for her. Anyone can be a biological father, it takes love and effort to be a parent.

726 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:10:48pm

723 ChildOfMary

I'm always available if you need to talk.

Click my blue name to email me if you wish. I'm dealing with family members who I have to watch suffer in pain on a regular basis and may be able to (hopefully at least partially) understand.

If you ever need it.

727 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:12:05pm

725 ChildOfMary

Yup, pretty sure you're someone I'd like.

728 UFO TOFU  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:13:38pm

Later gettinby, redstate & Widow'smight; take care!

729 ChildOfMary  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:18:24pm

#726 Lance Kates

Thanks, Lance, you are very kind. I just might take you up on that offer in the near future.

730 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:20:09pm

Later UFO.

731 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:22:09pm

729 ChildOfMary

No problem. I don't often keep my nic blue anymore, but just ask if you need my email (or ask anyone on the dead thread here, most of them have it.

732 UFO TOFU  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:24:17pm

Lance
That was my farewell to those leaving, not ment to be a snub or anything.
;-)

733 ChildOfMary  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:36:55pm

Bye, all -- think I'd better go deal with the slow cooker contents before they turn to mush. Stay strong.

734 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:40:58pm

732 UFO

no no, didn't think it was.... I was thinking that YOU were leaving. heh.

735 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:43:23pm

reminds me of a story from internship.

I was making a pot roast... my first ever in a slow cooker.

apparently I didn't add enough water. I came home to a brick that stunk up a good portion of the house I was staying in.

y'ick.

736 m  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:45:05pm

#696 redstateredneck ~ exactly! You said it better than I ever could though!

737 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:47:01pm

Ok Ladies and Gentlemen....

Time to go.

Let not the Sun Set on your anger. (Ephesians 4 I think?)

I don't hold any anger at anyone, and I would hope they don't hold any at me.

738 m  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:48:34pm

Bye to all y'all I missed - the laundry fairy skipped my house while I was on vacation!

Writermom~ I did read your comments and agreed. I'm sure Lance agreed with -most- of them ;)

We just lost something in translation along the way :-D

739 ChildOfMary  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:49:53pm

#735 Lance Kates

I came home to a brick

That I've never produced in a slow cooker, mush yes, a brick no.

Just took the cover off and the chicken sure smells good!

740 LanceKates  Tue, May 29, 2007 2:51:01pm

739 ChildOfMary

when do we eat?

*grin*

actually... only a light dinner for me.. martial arts practice tonight.

I'm scheduled to test for my next rank in June.

741 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:15:46pm
742 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:17:57pm
743 BabbaZee  Tue, May 29, 2007 3:49:37pm

Thanks Buzzsawmonkey.

744 bcgirl  Tue, May 29, 2007 6:31:24pm

buzzsawmonkey, thanks for the great history lesson, too bad this is not stressed in our schools anymore, my senor "world history" project was on Auschwitz, birkenau, was the "sister camp" and close by, yes? is that why the confusion, i had my report meshed according to what you just said, and I believe you.

OT,,, ABC just showed an american Hero, James Regen (I don't know if I spelled it right) a picture of his fiancee lying on his grave at Arlingtio,n,, i can't stop crying,,,, gotta go now.... God BLESS the USA,,

745 Ma Sands  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:45:10pm

#741 buzzsawmonkey

I think I knew all those facts, from way long time ago, and never all at once.....and never realized my knowledge was all jumbled....thank you so much for re-mentioning, on the Adam-thread, that this was here; I am forever grateful --it was my eldest sons who have studied that period all in consecutiveness.... :)

746 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, May 29, 2007 7:54:40pm
747 norian  Wed, May 30, 2007 12:00:22am

482, 557

This gem is where President Bush grants the presidency extraordinary powers without congressional oversight.

NSPD-51 is its name.

Totally ignored by the MSM. Practically ignored by everyone else.

It seems as if he doesn't want to wait for Governors to make that phone call for Federal Aid, as some do seem to postpone it just a tad too long.

However, there is much more here that is troubling. First, how is this constitutional?

Or is he preparing for that Iranian surprise?

748 nagasaki_hata  Wed, May 30, 2007 11:18:11am

#513 lancecakes

Many newsites have these, but for ease I choose these examples---there are numerous others, sadly.

[Link: www.worldnetdaily.com...]


[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]


[Link: www.worldnetdaily.com...]


[Link: www.worldnetdaily.com...]

[Link: www.worldnetdaily.com...]


-----Babba Zee----

I agree with thee!

While many individuals and groups --- Slavs, homosexuals, mental ill, deformed, etc. were also targeted as "useless eaters", the Jews were the paramount target as Hitler believed they were the root of all evil in effect. Therefore, Jews should be recognized as the primary but not the sole target. He wouln't have stopped with the Jews only, though. Some Jews have a tendency, at least publicly, to mourn EXCLUSIVELY fellow Jews and that is not morally correct, IMO. Also, without the efforts of non-Jews, the Nazis would have won, so we should all, Jew and non-Jew, be thankful and grateful for each other.


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