Coming from Sri Lanka it is unlikely she is a Muslim.

Another example of 7th century jurisprudence. We should apply sharia law to all of these jihadists that we find in the West.

While they behead folks in Saudi Arabia, they take to the stone age in Iran. Islamic justice and all that.

Shame on the Bush admin for calling Saudi Racist Arabia "an ally."

The glories of shari'a.

/do I have to?

Gee. Louise Whatshername thought American justice was harsh for shaking a baby to death.

Autopsy would have shows strangulation bruising.

Typically heinous, vile behavior from Muslim barbarians.

The maid was likely a slave to begin with.

This just pisses me off!

don't worry the leftists and the media will just go back to blaming jews for all the worlds ills.

re: #4 ibrodsky

There are nothing but unsavory characters in the region other than Israel, and the Saudis do provide oil. Our reliance on the Magic Kingdom needs to come to a close, and we did get out of Saudi Arabia, but the Saudis continue exporting their jihadis around the world, including Iraq. I doubt that they're going to stop since the Saudis know that if they tried cracking down on the jihadis in house, they'd run into the Musharraf problem (aka assassination attempt du jour).

Autopsies are discouraged in Islam. (But pr and post death dismemberment is common). Such a Cult.

Executing the maid will cover up the delinquency of the Saudi parents.

/Sounds perfectly reasonable in a Saudi-Wahhabi sort of way.

Brownish people, not relevant for the left and the feminists...

She was collecting Arab blood for the matzo.

/sheik

Execution Extortion Update: Kaddafi gets his jizya;

Libya confirms compensation deal in Aids case

Families of Libyan children infected with AIDS have accepted compensation topping 400 million dollars, a Libyan foundation confirmed on Sunday, which could lead to a death sentence on six foreign medics being lifted.
===
Libyan Foreign Minister Abdel Rahman Shalgham said on Wednesday the compensation would come from "certain European countries and charitable organisations, and from the Libyan state."

A special fund for the AIDS victims was set up by Libya and Bulgaria in 2005 under the aegis of the EU.

Shalgham refused to reveal how much money was already in the fund, except to say it ran into "hundreds of millions of dollars."

Will blood money satisfy Libya's death sentencing sharia-thugs?

Or will they continue blackmailing for the Lockerbie bomber's release?

Bomber's fate 'up for discussion'

The Lockerbie bomber has not been excluded from a possible deal on prisoner transfers between the UK and Libya, according to Jack Straw.

The UK justice secretary said the fate of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi was a "matter for discussion" with the Scottish Executive.

Stay tuned...

I've read some more details on this case.

She was told to give a bottle to the baby, though she was hired to be a housecleaner. She was inexperienced, and didn't know how to do it. The baby choked on the milk, and stopped breathing. She tried to save it.

The confession was either completely faked, or was beaten out of her, and later retracted.

In a sane country, she would be given counseling for the trauma and let go.

re: #7 jcm

Thats assuming they peformed one. Doubtful.

Besides the fact that beheading is a barbaric form of execution, I have no confidence in Saudi Arabia's ability to ensure a fair trial.

Islam contains built-in prejudices that influence who is accused and who is found guilty. Islam's rules re: witnesses are unjust and backwards even by 7th century standards.

Previously at LGF: Saudi Head-Chopper Discusses His Craft

So let's see ,,, An American soldier puts a pair of ladies undies on a TERRORISTS head in a holdong cell in Cuba, and the world is up in arms about it. Yet the Arabs are about to " set a new record in its use of the death sentence" and the UN says ,,,

chirp chirp chirp ,,,

I think a severed head would go nicely with the sword on the Saudi flag.

re: #22 sattv4u2

So let's see ,,, An American soldier puts a pair of ladies undies on a TERRORISTS head in a holdong cell in Cuba, and the world is up in arms about it. Yet the Arabs are about to " set a new record in its use of the death sentence" and the UN says ,,,

chirp chirp chirp ,,,

American spends 20 years and 8-10 appeals, 20-30 million dollars ensuring due process to a multiple murder.

And we are the barbarians.

The scary/sad thing, is that Muslims truly believe they are better than infidels by virtue of their faith (not just believe better like most other faiths). So, they can justify all kinds of evil behavior with that attitude.

re: #1 pat

Coming from Sri Lanka it is unlikely she is a Muslim.

Possible, but more likely a Buddhist.
Buddhist 69.1%, Muslim 7.6%, Hindu 7.1%, Christian 6.2%, unspecified 10% (2001 census provisional data)

We need a president who is more worried about those unjustly executed by the Saudi police state than offending Saudi Racist Arabia's autocrats.

More on our friends here...

[Link: www.latimes.com...]

Nafeek will have her head cut off by an executioner wielding a sword in front of a crowd of onlookers.

Most of whom will get a sexual thrill out of watching her beheading.

An entire region of sexual psychopaths.

re: #23 buzzsawmonkey

When Saudi managers say, "Heads will roll," be afraid. Be very afraid.

LOL !

On the other hand, the only things saudis manage are their villas and gazillions of barrels of booze on the French Riviera...

She's only 17. Video here.

re: #30 zombie

Nafeek will have her head cut off by an executioner wielding a sword in front of a crowd of onlookers.

Most of whom will get a sexual thrill out of watching her beheading.

An entire region of sexual psychopaths.

With islam, everything gets improved, and this is islamic porn...

I'm sure Danny Glover and Rev. Al are on a jet to Saudi right now to protest this barbarity. Whoops! No money to be made or publicity gained from protesting the death penalty in any country but ours. So sorry.

It is an abomination that we support the Saudis in any way. In my opinion, they are the head of the snake.

re: #25 jcm

I'm sitting here waiting for Simply Cindy Sheehan to set up camp in Suadi Arabia as a sign of protest.

chirp chirp chirp

OT

Bush like Hitler, says first Muslim in Congress

America's first Muslim congressman has provoked outrage by apparently comparing President George W Bush to Adolf Hitler and hinting that he might have been responsible for the September 11 attacks.Addressing a gathering of atheists in his home state of Minnesota, Keith Ellison, a Democrat, compared the 9/11 atrocities to the destruction of the Reichstag, the German parliament, in 1933. This was probably burned down by the Nazis in order to justify Hitler's later seizure of emergency powers."It's almost like the Reichstag fire, kind of reminds me of that," Mr Ellison said. "After the Reichstag was burned, they blamed the Communists for it, and it put the leader [Hitler] of that country in a position where he could basically have authority to do whatever he wanted."

People, people, people, Lets all calm down. Lets not go losing our heads over this small trivial matter. What will be will be. Inshallah.

This is abhorrent. If the maid truly wanted to strangle the baby, she would not have done so "while feeding him with a bottle." How ridiculous. The "confession" appears to be nothing more than an accommodation for the family's desire to blame someone for the death. Given that half the beheadings are of foreigners, the Saudis not only like sharia but like it even more when applied to someone else.

re: #32 Carl in Jerusalem

She's only 17. Video here.

Leave it to the Mohammed-worshipping savages to behead a minor.

OT

Rabbi helps Muslims fight County Council to build 25,000 sq. ft. mosque in St. Louis.

Link

She wasn't even allowed to have legal council during her trial.
How can it be said to have been "fair?"
Don't the Saudi's have special laws to make it more difficult for foreign househelp to go home?
What was she paid for her 24/7 job?
Where was her passport kept?
What form of torture was used to coerce her now retracted "confession?:

re: #36 Tricky Dick

That was covered here extensively when it first happened.

Image of her mother and sisters.

I don't have a problem with capital punishment at all, or with the particular method that they use in SA. None whatsoever. Nor do I have a problem with her getting the sword if she in fact killed the kid out of malice/hate/anger etc.

Looks like the question here was did she deliberately kill the kid...or was it accidental. Personally, I think that the Saudi justice system can tell the difference.

As much as I dislike arabs/muslims in general I am not going to use this situation to bash them for I think it is not relevant due to my personal beliefs on crime and punishment..

Watching Bush...

Trying to get the Palis and the Jews to live next to each other with mutual respect.

I'm dubious. How many peace prizes have come out of that cess pool of hate?

History...etc.

Unfortunately the barbaric treatment of "the help" is very common in Saudi. I would not be surprised if the parents had something to do with the child's death and they blamed it on the maid. I have lived in the Middle East for years and have heard many stories where Filipino maids have been treated so poorly that they have committed suicide.

One of the most common barbarian acts is to enslave Filipinos and Sri Lankans for 3 years (the duration of their contract). The whole time, the maids are never to leave the house and are not paid, as they are told that room and board is all that they need and they will get a lump sum at the end of the contract. The woman of the house typically hides the passports of their workers until one day the worker suddenly "steals" something (usually right before the end of their contracts). The effect of this is two fold. 1) The family then can claim that the person is a thief and will not have to pay for 3 years of service, and 2) They won't have to pay for the return air ticket of the "criminal" that has lived amongst them for so many years.

Really Fucked up Shit

re: #25 jcm

Keep that in mind when you hear news reports about the three thugs who were involved in the murder of NYPD cop Russel Timoshenko and injured his partner during a traffic stop. NY technically has a death penalty statute, but hasn't actually executed someone in decades because of opposition to capital punishment.

So Bush is scared..what was this 15-20 mins on Palestinian rant? Supporting a contiguous west bank/ gaza palestinian state...grrr Who scared Bush that he did this now? He is scared...imo...someone forced his hand..

This is just mortifying. At least in Japan when the government and a plaintiff gt together to scapegoat foreigners, they just get deported or fined. I cannot imagine the horror of this poor girl who probably went to the Kingdom of Hatred desperate for a job to send money home to Sri Lanka. These girls live like slaves, often enduring sexual abuse at the hands of the man who holds the passport, and indeed the very life of the foreign worker.
And now this. Get this--a baby cannot choke on milk. Up to a certain age, they can breathe just fine through the nose while nursing.
This poor girl is being murdered by the Kingdom of Hatred. She is probably (?) forcibly pregnant with the Sheikh's bastard.

re: #18 zombie

I've read some more details on this case.

She was told to give a bottle to the baby, though she was hired to be a housecleaner. She was inexperienced, and didn't know how to do it. The baby choked on the milk, and stopped breathing. She tried to save it.

The confession was either completely faked, or was beaten out of her, and later retracted.

In a sane country, she would be given counseling for the trauma and let go.

That makes sense. She is probably not a Muslim. The poor girl was probably treated far less well than a camel. Now they will behead her.
You will not hear international outrage because this is really not out of character.
In a grotesque multi-cultural salute you get away with heinous behavior as long as you are consistently heinous

CONTIGUOUS?!?!

re: #30 zombie

Nafeek will have her head cut off by an executioner wielding a sword in front of a crowd of onlookers.

Most of whom will get a sexual thrill out of watching her beheading.

An entire region of sexual psychopaths.

I'm not discounting your theory, and I know that the region is very warped sexually, but is there a story that you've read in the past about Saudis getting turned on by beheadings?

The link I posted above definitely shows a giddy woman interviewing the executioner, but I'm not sure people are getting off sexually on beheadings instead of just enjoying vicarious power trips.

re: #45 Carioca Canuck

Looks like the question here was did she deliberately kill the kid...or was it accidental. Personally, I think that the Saudi justice system can tell the difference.

Yeah, I see what you mean. They held telethons for Palestinians just trying to get a fair shake by mass murdering Jooos. The Saudis' idea of justice is impeccable.

/sarcasm

re: #53 SeafoodGumbo

The link I posted above definitely shows a giddy woman interviewing the executioner, but I'm not sure people are getting off sexually on beheadings instead of just enjoying vicarious power trips.

Uh, onus upon you to tell us the difference, Chief.

I cannot FATHOM how we count these 'people' and this 'government' as our friends in the Middle East. Other countries do things such as this, and we are the first to stand up and vilify them - it only lends credence to our enemies' assertions that we're all about the oil. This is appalling, government-sanctioned murder; of course, some would say that all capital punishment falls under this heading, but our justice system allows criminals every available opportunity to save themselves, including 25 years on death row before executions are carried out. For a teenager to be killed - brutally, in public - after a mock trial, with no lawyer, based on a questionable confession - we should immediately sever all ties with this nation until they agree to treat their citizens humanely, and to run their justice system by the laws of MAN, not those of Mohammed.

'The UK justice secretary said the fate of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi was a "matter for discussion" with the Scottish Executive.'

No need to worry about this one guys. If it was upsetting the English then yes worry but this is the Scots.

The head of the Scottish Parliament is the SNP's Alex Salmond and he would literally have to die before this happened.

Plus our PM is a Jock.

Hell would need to freeze over before this happened. Trust me on this.

re: #25 jcm

That very idea irked me this morning upon reading about the death of NYPD Officer Timoshenko. RIP.

Sometime around 2025 the perpetrator will pay back his debt to society. By then the meaning of justice will be lost and forgotten, Officer Timoshenko's family will be required to relive this tragedy in unending court process' and our taxes will constantly rise to support this 'system' of justice.

/makes me mad...thats all...

Those saud's sure no how to keep the help in line. A few years back at one of the Disney resorts here in Orlando a saudi maid/servant was pushed down the stairs by a saudi princess for some perceived slight. Of course, the little princess forget where she was and the "servant" gained asylum, I think. While the princess got booted.

re: #49 Wishing

So Bush is scared..what was this 15-20 mins on Palestinian rant? Supporting a contiguous west bank/ gaza palestinian state...grrr Who scared Bush that he did this now? He is scared...imo...someone forced his hand..

Iranian/Al Qaeda nuclear blackmail...

re: #58 experiencedtraveller

Tell me about it. Appeals are totally un-American.

Sincerely,
Troy Davis

Saudi Arabia was the last country on earth to outlaw slavery. They did it only reluctantly and under foreign pressure.

After all, the prophet Mohammed said that slavery is fine and dandy.

I don't understand why these poor people keep going to these horrid countries- are they aware of what commonly happens to lowly household help? Do their parents know what will happen to their daughters? Don't they care?
I really want to sever all ties to filthy Saudi Arabia.

Here's the only scenario where we don't lose:

W: "Shimon, you ready to go or what?"
Peres: "George, I need two more months. Just get up there and tell them what they want to hear. It doesn't matter--we'll be taking it all back by October."

Short of that, this sounds bad.

I don't understand "appeal" if you've had no right to legal counsel! What they meant in the article was, "the right to a fair trial will once again be denied upon appeal"..

Allies my ass...

I might get the big [D] but the Saudis are animals!

re: #62 stormhit

re: #58 experiencedtraveller

Tell me about it. Appeals are totally un-American.

Sincerely,
Troy Davis

Troy, I believe in Appeals especially in such a serious case. But they should be done PROMPTLY.

The Saudi Arabia is to Fascist Italy as Iran is to Nazi Germany. It's just that those fools in Washington refuse to admit how dangerous either one is to the United States.

If we ever get a leader who will forthrightly admit this threat to us, launching a war on Islamic totalitarianism should logically follow. Once we have dispatched Iran a little shove will collapse the rotten to the core Saudi Arabia.

re: #66 buzzsawmonkey

re: #63 ibrodsky

Saudi Arabia was the last country on earth to outlaw slavery. They did it only reluctantly and under foreign pressure.

And far more in form than in substance.

no, they found a better way. They just confiscate the passports of their "guest workers" the minute they arrive and lock them in a safe, so even if they wanted to go, they can't get out of country...I've seen this with my own eyes! They brag about it!

Too bad the Saudis have all that oil and we are their primary customer. Better than buying from Iran, Iraq, or Libya, but too bad none the less.

That the Middle East has a stranglehold on the world's energy supply could be exploited for more than enforcing their religious beliefs at home. If they want to live in the seventh century, that is all right with me, but to be consistent they should give up guns, explosives, aircraft, and nuclear energy. Then I would be happy for them to live anyway they see fit even if it sucks to be a woman, child, or barnyard animal there.

To think, Pelosi was walking around in a misogynistic head scarf with one of the jihadist barbarians a few months ago. I wouldn't be surprised if he issued the fatwa to ensure a quick trial and a certain beheading.

Where are you now Nancy?

re: #70 Bill K.

"If we ever get a leader who will forthrightly admit this threat to us, launching a war on Islamic totalitarianism should logically follow"

there. fixed. call em like they should be...

There are so many foreign workers in Saudi Arabia that they account for a large proportion of crimes committed.

"The workers commit big crimes against Saudis," said Suhaila Hammad of Saudi Arabia's National Society for Human Rights.

She said the number of executions had risen because crime had increased. She said that prisoners were treated humanely and that beheadings deterred crime.

"Allah, our creator, knows best what's good for his people," she said.

"Should we just think of and preserve the rights of the murderer and not think of the rights of others?"

She just broke my Irony Meter. A "National Society for Human Rights" in a country whose "constitution" is the koran, whose law is shari'a. Human Rights and shari'a are like oil and water. They can't be combined.

#45:

How can you possibly say "the Saudi justice system can tell the difference" between whether she killed the kid on purpose or accident? WHAT Saudi justice system? Any system that doesn't allow a defendant a lawyer - and where the confession has already been refuted, calling into question whether it was even SHE that killed the poor baby - is a farce at best, and criminal at worst. Do you really think they did a thorough investigation, autopsy, etc? Please, it's obvious she never had a chance to tell her side or defend herself, and I'm sure the powers that be were not lining up to discern the facts.

As for your feelings on crime and punishment, I don't even disagree, anyone who kills an innocent infant should of course be executed - but only after a fair trial that PROVES he or she was the actual killer, and that the action was intentional. Seems to me none of that has been proven here, and the absence of any kind of legal representation on her part takes this whole case completely out of the realm of the world of 'justice'.

re: #75 paxnhymn

re: #70 Bill K.

"If we ever get a leader who will forthrightly admit this threat to us, launching a war on Islamic totalitarianism should logically follow"

there. fixed. call em like they should be...

paxnhymn, that's two in a row. And with a name like paxnhymn... Moby?

Until the Saudi cancer is excised, everything we're trying to accomplish in the ME is deck chairs on the Titanic.

re: #6 MandyManners

And from what all I heard and saw during that fiasco, I have always been unsure that she actually did it.

If I remember right, the parents were something else!

So, I guess in Saudi Country, you just let the kid choke to death, if that is what was happening.

re: #55 haakondahl

re: #53 SeafoodGumbo

The link I posted above definitely shows a giddy woman interviewing the executioner, but I'm not sure people are getting off sexually on beheadings instead of just enjoying vicarious power trips.

Uh, onus upon you to tell us the difference, Chief.

You really need to have the difference between sexually enjoying something and non-sexually enjoying something explained to you?

re: #81 SeafoodGumbo

re: #55 haakondahl

re: #53 SeafoodGumbo

The link I posted above definitely shows a giddy woman interviewing the executioner, but I'm not sure people are getting off sexually on beheadings instead of just enjoying vicarious power trips.

Uh, onus upon you to tell us the difference, Chief.

You really need to have the difference between sexually enjoying something and non-sexually enjoying something explained to you?

Yup. But not just any two things. Please stay on the two thing which YOU mentioned in the original post. Let's don't shift the goals, shall we?

I am positively stunned to note Amnesty International protesting this. And here I thought they only protested when Israelis killed Palestinians.

Headline: Stopped Clock Amnesty International Protests Actual Human Rights Abuse!

re: #82 haakondahl

re: #81 SeafoodGumbo

re: #55 haakondahl

re: #53 SeafoodGumbo

The link I posted above definitely shows a giddy woman interviewing the executioner, but I'm not sure people are getting off sexually on beheadings instead of just enjoying vicarious power trips.

Uh, onus upon you to tell us the difference, Chief.

You really need to have the difference between sexually enjoying something and non-sexually enjoying something explained to you?

Yup. But not just any two things. Please stay on the two thing which YOU mentioned in the original post. Let's don't shift the goals, shall we?

Are you drunk this early in the day because your post makes no sense at all?

Just charming people. I can't wait till I live under sharia law!

And they wonder why they have a problem attracting tourists.

re: #87 Judith

And they wonder why they have a problem attracting tourists.

because they live in a giant KITTY LITTER BOX

re: #85 SeafoodGumbo

You're the one who thinks there's such a difference between "getting off sexually on beheadings" and "just enjoying vicarious power trips [on beheadings]".

I'm the one who says these are basically the same thing.

I'm on my third beer, but it's three in the damned morning where I am. What's your excuse?

The sooner the West comes up with a viable alternative to oil, the better off we'll all be. Deprive them of their oil revenues, and both Saudi Arabia and Iran will collapse. Even if everyone in the West could eliminate the use of one gallon a week of oil, it would put a noticeable dent in their incomes.

They can stew in their Islamic paradises for the rest of eternity without money or intellectual capital.

re: #87 Judith

And they wonder why they have a problem attracting tourists.

i have a friend who married a saudi man, she lived over there 20 yrs. when her family went to visit, they were nervous abt. doing anything. from what they told me, if they were, for ex. in a car wreck, the immediate presumption of guilt and liability would be on them. the attitude of the saudi's was: if you weren't in our country, the wreck would not have happened." actual fault was immaterial. i'm never going there.

CNN Vs. Michael Moore

Looks like a clash of confirmed leftists.

Sorry for O/T post, but this is pretty strange stuff. CNN actually has a 10 point rebuttal on their website.

[Link: www.michaelmoore.com...]

Of course Moore throws in the usual, gratuitous Iraq War insults in the PS. What a clown.

.

re: #47 BobbyKeith

Unfortunately the barbaric treatment of "the help" is very common in Saudi. I would not be surprised if the parents had something to do with the child's death and they blamed it on the maid. I have lived in the Middle East for years and have heard many stories where Filipino maids have been treated so poorly that they have committed suicide.

Too true, but I will point out that this attitude is not exclusive to Saudi. I've seen it in Kuwait just as much. It seems to be an Arab (Muslim?) thing, although it will probably be harder for the victims to get help in Saudi than anywhere else.

120 beheadings?! SAVAGES! I'm willing to give up driving car, if the western world invades SA and installs a humane regime. You would think that material wealth was followed by intellectual enlightenment, but these people seem beyond learning. And why? Islam! What a shame for humanity...

re: #89 haakondahl

re: #85 SeafoodGumbo

You're the one who thinks there's such a difference between "getting off sexually on beheadings" and "just enjoying vicarious power trips [on beheadings]".

I'm the one who says these are basically the same thing.

I'm on my third beer, but it's three in the damned morning where I am. What's your excuse?

I guess we'll just have to disagree since I think that it's possible for people to enjoy things in a non-sexual manner while you don't think that's possible.

If I play cards with friends, go to a water-park, or enjoy a day outdoors, I am enjoying myself non-sexually. Is it really that hard to understand?

I guess that your mileage varies and you get a boner watching a funny movie.

What a cesspool the ME is.

Eventually it will be cleaned out, if not by us then at the tender mercies of the Russians or Chinese. A plague on them.

It is this kind of thing that makes me crazy when it comes to the hell we're going through for Iraq - these countries, where religion comes above EVERYTHING, cannot, will not, do not WANT TO become democracies. If this is an example of a 'moderate' Muslim state, one we're willing to call an ally and stand beside in the 'war on terror' (while they pass checks to Al Qaeda behind our backs), then what does that say for the countries that openly refuse to acknowledge any kind of man-made laws? Saudi Arabia proclaims themselves democratic while actually running themselves under Sharia law, just as most countries headed by Muslims do; as much as I'm trying to support the war (and I do, for the most part), I just have to say that any society who will always follow the law of their God over the laws of their government will never accept true democracy, which is what we're fighting and dying to install in Iraq.

I realize this is slightly off topic, but I think it's a good example - Muslims will always live their lives according to the Koran, not a man-made constitution, and this type of thing is the result. This is what worries me about Iraq, they will never turn their backs on the barbarism that their religion calls for, so it makes me wonder - if this is how the "shining beacon of hope" in the Middle East behaves, what hope is there for the rest of the region?

Wow...membership has it's privileges...?
So in other words...if you join Islam you get beheaded...Then if you DO join Islam you can still get beheaded...?

That's a rock and a hard place.

re: #98 Oh no...Sand People!

Wow...membership has it's privileges...?
So in other words...if you (Don't) join Islam you get beheaded...Then if you DO join Islam you can still get beheaded...?

That's a rock and a hard place.

There PIMF is my friend...just not when I omit a relative word.

#75 paxnhymn

Once you have destroyed, and thus discredited, the ideological center of militant Islam, Iran and Saudi Arabia, the wanna-be jihadis will crawl back into their ratholes. And stay there and eventually die out if we maintain our vigilance.

This is the fate of the Nazis today. Most everyone recognizes them as pathetic losers and Nazism as a failed ideology that brought only death and destruction to its followers.

When you see Jews and western women in shorts visiting Mecca you will know that Islam, as it presently exists, has gone forever.

re: #95 SeafoodGumbo

re: #89 haakondahl

re: #85 SeafoodGumbo

You're the one who thinks there's such a difference between "getting off sexually on beheadings" and "just enjoying vicarious power trips [on beheadings]".

I'm the one who says these are basically the same thing.

I'm on my third beer, but it's three in the damned morning where I am. What's your excuse?

I guess we'll just have to disagree since I think that it's possible for people to enjoy things in a non-sexual manner while you don't think that's possible.

If I play cards with friends, go to a water-park, or enjoy a day outdoors, I am enjoying myself non-sexually. Is it really that hard to understand?

I guess that your mileage varies and you get a boner watching a funny movie.

Here's what I told you just a few minutes ago:

Yup. But not just any two things. Please stay on the two thing which YOU mentioned in the original post. Let's don't shift the goals, shall we?

So you would rather shift the goals than have a conversation. We were talking about the range of variety in inappropriate joy at beheading. Not playing cards. Not a water-park. Not a day outdoors. Not a funny movie.

So you would just rather be stupid? Okay. I can do that too, I admit. Like this:

Why do you bring up playing cards with your "friends" when we talk about getting off sexually? And what about the water-park? And what is it that you do on a day outdoors? And do your funny movies all have ribald puns in the title?

Oh, I guess I'm not so good at being stupid after all. But I'll tell you one thing. I do get a boner watching a funny movie. Know why? Because I'm stiff like an OAK all the Live Long Day!
Walking proud.
You can't touch this. Duh, nuh nuh nuh.

[SeafoodGumbo is typing...]

Hat tip for Bob?

Where's the love?

re: #104 BobTheBuilder

Hat tip for Bob?

Where's the love?

I'm tipping my hat. No, really.

re: #105 haakondahl

Thanks, I feel much better now.

[Link: travel.state.gov...]

I've posted this link before, but it is always interesting to see how the US State Department advises its citizens traveling to the kingdom. Even as harsh as these cautions appear, I'll bet the State Dept. is doing quite a bit of white-washing so as to avoid offending our allies' sensibilities and humanity./
Why anyone would go there voluntarily is beyond me, but the paragraphs addressing Standards of Conduct and Religious Police and the Criminal Penalties are particularly noteworthy and just a little scary. Moral relativism at a high level. No wonder the women cover up - it must be impossible to avoid offending someone at all times-and avoid being reported to the executioners, oops, proper moral authorities. At least the women can hide under a tablecloth.
They don't even allow the importing of pork and alcohol. Sheesh! They have so much summer-like weather there, one would think they would be big in to the outdoor barbecue thing.

I have a modest proposal: the Palestinians in the Gaza and "West Bank" are very highly underemployed. Let's get them jobs in the paradise that is Saudi Arabia. They want Shari'a, let them have it. I'll bet the Saudis would love more cheap, Arabic-speaking labor, too.

There are other Shari'a-loving oil-rich countries, too. Cheap Pali labor, on the way. Let the poor head-choppers work for the rich ones.

haak,

I'm stiff like an OAK all the Live Long Day!

Whew, glad I'm not alone.

Seriously, we need to do some sideways drilling, a la C. Montgomery Burns and take OUR oil out from under their sand.

i have no problem with taking the head of someone that killed a child.

BUT...

the fairness of any trial is in grave question.

in islam her testimony is worthless.
all it takes in one male that says "i believe she is guilty"

she could not defend herself in their courts.

Saudi jihadists now make up half the foreign fighters in Iraq

Just what is going on with Saudi Arabia other than the obvious. The slave-labor camps of Dubai lack comfortable accomodations also.

Most of the people beheaded in KSA are foreigners. The police are corrupt and anybody with money can buy the charges & sentence they want. The baby died, so somebody has to pay for it. Better a powerless foreign female than the neglectful parents; that way "honor" is maintained.

#97 Lorenska: I agree with everything you wrote above, except to say the Koran is a man-made constitution, recited by an illiterate narcissist pervert.

re: #95 SeafoodGumbo

In a culture as screwed up as KSA, "sexual" pleasure and "ordinary pleasure cannot be considered similar to our forms of pleasure. Sadism, dominance and humilation are the norms. Any culture that demands death by stoning for women who were raped has some serious issues.

#100 Bill K.

When you see Jews and western women in shorts visiting Mecca you will know that Islam, as it presently exists, has gone forever.

Visit Mecca? What for? To go skating on the shiney new sea of glass?

re: #112 Kenneth

May the glass skating rink come to pass God willing. One in what used to be Medina would be nice too.

#112 Kenneth: Good point about the Koran - I guess technically it is 'man-made,' but I'm not sure I'd call it a constitution, although I suppose it's the one Muslims insist on following.

I think, in further discussing Muslims' refusal to ever accept laws written by governments over those they believe Mohammed put in place, it's interesting to mention again the whole cartoon kerfluffle. It's a very good comparison between Islam and Christianity (and other reasonable religions) - in the former, they are so cowed by their so-called savior that they think anyone who so much as draws his picture will be (should be) struck down and damned forever; in the latter, we crave visions of our God(s), to worship, adore, and pray to. That is a healthy way to practice religion, while still accepting that we are humans and must be able to make and follow laws to live as such. Trying to live your life based on what some psychotic egoist said 900 years ago is just bizarre, and insisting that everyone else on earth do the same is flat out insanity. THAT is why democracy will never take root in the Middle East, no matter how noble our intentions.

re: #13 experiencedtraveller

Executing the maid will cover up the delinquency of the Saudi parents.

/Sounds perfectly reasonable in a Saudi-Wahhabi sort of way.

Yep. It's never the fault of a Saudi if a foreigner is around to take the blame. If the maid had come from a wealthy family, they would have used extortion and made a claim for blood money. Since that wasn't realistic in this case, they have to murder the maid to "save face".

How much you want to bet this young woman is being publicly murdered because she protested being raped (or some equivalent travesty of justice a la the koran) by her Saudi owner?

Only 53 people executed in America in 2006. Saudi Arabia twice as bad , eh ?

This is the kind of law CAIR wants to implement in the US, Inshallah.

So execution by lethal injection is "cruel and unusual" because the executed might feel pain, but this is a perfectly acceptable practice, cutting off a woman's head with a sword; it's their culture to do so.

How does this even make sense? I get cultural differences, but something like beheading a woman with a scimitar doesn't seem like a "cultural difference" so much as a "barbaric difference" (and no, I'm not calling all Muslims barbaric, only the ones who would advocate this kind of sentence as punishment).

Here's hoping she wins the appeal.

re: #10 pegcity

Yeah, certainly someone will say the Jews did it.

Seriously, Manila should forbid the export of domestic workers to that part of the world. It's a hellhole for them.

#118: Your reference to CAIR reminded me of something, now what was it...? Oh yeah - where the living hell are all these "moderate Muslims" we keep hearing about, when this kind of barbarism is going on - apparently CONSTANTLY - in a so-called 'liberal' Muslim state? I mean, of course my question is rhetorical and no such group will ever appear, but just once, I want someone to make them explain how they can sit silently in the shadows while this kind of act (and thousands upon thousands just like it) occur every day, and then stand up shouting death threats at the Pope when he dares to quietly mention that Islam might have some violent tendencies.

There is not a drop of common sense (or humanity) in this religion, whether it's the criminals actually carrying out the terror, or the "Islamic supporters" who only rouse themselves when it's to shout down those who denounce the violence. It's so backward it makes my head (and heart) hurt.

re: #121 buzzsawmonkey

re: #117 threecoloursblue

Only 53 people executed in America in 2006. Saudi Arabia twice as bad , eh ?

Try adjusting the number for population, and then try adjusting for due process.

Thank you.

Wouldn't it be trivial-easy to determine if the cause of death was malevolent strangulation as opposed to choking on something?

I guess it's easier and more satisfying to behead infidels?

re: #108 Golem Akbar

Unfortunately the last thing Saudi needs is more insane fanatics, particularly helping to raise children.

/Farfour

re: #123 bulwrk

re: #121 buzzsawmonkey

re: #117 threecoloursblue

Only 53 people executed in America in 2006. Saudi Arabia twice as bad , eh ?

Try adjusting the number for population, and then try adjusting for due process.

Thank you.

Is that total executions, or only those by beheading and/or public beheading? I'm not entirely familiar with all the laws there.

re: #121 buzzsawmonkey

Sorry: that should be ...15 times as bad.

BTW... how many rich white guys get topped ? Due process or no due process ?

re: #102 ploome hineni

re: #91 nyc redneck

where is your friend now?

in the states w/ her 4 sons, her daughter is over there producing children, she was married as a teenager.

#122 Lorenska

There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim.

re: #129 moebius

#122 Lorenska

There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim.

Sorry for asking, but I've always wondered what this means... Is it some inside joke i'm missing out on?

re: #114 Lorenska

I don't think it's totally hopeless, but it will take several generations for true democracy to become established in the Arab world. Turkish secularists have been struggling for 100 years and democracy is still very tentative there, with little freedom and a lousy human rights record. It will take at least that long in Iraq, and even longer in Arabia. An Egyptian I know said to me, "Democracy for Arabs means my tribe gets everything now!"

Good luck with that.

i think the husband became involved w/ his 2nd wife and my friend had no real trouble leaving. her oldest son is studying to be a doctor. i hope to see them before long. she's only been back afew yrs. i will encourage her to write abt. her experiences in s.a.

re: #134 ploome hineni

re: #133 nyc redneck

so her experience was not bad?

she didn't get out w/ her daughter.

re: #129 moebius

#122 Lorenska
There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim.

Bernard Lewis said, "This is no moderate Islam, only moderate Muslims". By that, he meant, Muslims who don't take their religion too deeply can be said to be "moderate". Such people do exist, but they have little voice in their community. They are either drowned out by the CAIR's and other similar groups, or they are violently threatened, intimidated & attacked by "activists". The majority of Muslims are niether "moderate" nor militant, but they are conservative and conditioned to accept authority. Becsue the moderates cannot be heard, the majority follows the militants.

#127 threecoloursblue

Well hell boy!
It you would prefer to take your chances in the Magic Kingdom I believe you can catch a flight over there almost any day.
Don't let us stop you. No reason to put up with bloodthirsty racist Americans.

#112 Kenneth

Trinity Site is a tourist attraction. Why not a melted down Kaaba if it comes to that?

#135 buzzzaw

Are libs incapable of rational thought?

This has to be a mental disorder.

re: #131 so.cal.swede

re: #129 moebius

#122 Lorenska

There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim.

Sorry for asking, but I've always wondered what this means... Is it some inside joke i'm missing out on?

Check these out:

[Link: www.frontpagemag.com...]
[Link: libertyandculture.blogspot.com...]
[Link: www.humanevents.com...]
[Link: www.islam-watch.org...]

Any sightings of moonbats standing on streetcorners holding signs that say "END THE BEHEADING" or "SHA"ARIA IS APARTHEID"?

I didn't think so, but I had to ask.

#65 ploome hineni

"can we say when the bomb explodes, its a vicarious ejaculation"
Aw, I love you, Ploome! But I'm not leaving my husband! :-)

re: #137 Kenneth

re: #129 moebius

#122 Lorenska
There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim.

Bernard Lewis said, "This is no moderate Islam, only moderate Muslims". By that, he meant, Muslims who don't take their religion too deeply can be said to be "moderate". Such people do exist, but they have little voice in their community. They are either drowned out by the CAIR's and other similar groups, or they are violently threatened, intimidated & attacked by "activists". The majority of Muslims are niether "moderate" nor militant, but they are conservative and conditioned to accept authority. Becsue the moderates cannot be heard, the majority follows the militants.

re: #137 Kenneth

re: #129 moebius

#122 Lorenska
There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim.

Bernard Lewis said, "This is no moderate Islam, only moderate Muslims". By that, he meant, Muslims who don't take their religion too deeply can be said to be "moderate". Such people do exist, but they have little voice in their community. They are either drowned out by the CAIR's and other similar groups, or they are violently threatened, intimidated & attacked by "activists". The majority of Muslims are niether "moderate" nor militant, but they are conservative and conditioned to accept authority. Becsue the moderates cannot be heard, the majority follows the militants.

re: #137 Kenneth

re: #129 moebius

#122 Lorenska
There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim.

Bernard Lewis said, "This is no moderate Islam, only moderate Muslims". By that, he meant, Muslims who don't take their religion too deeply can be said to be "moderate". Such people do exist, but they have little voice in their community. They are either drowned out by the CAIR's and other similar groups, or they are violently threatened, intimidated & attacked by "activists". The majority of Muslims are niether "moderate" nor militant, but they are conservative and conditioned to accept authority. Becsue the moderates cannot be heard, the majority follows the militants.

re: #137 Kenneth

re: #129 moebius

#122 Lorenska
There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim.

Bernard Lewis said, "This is no moderate Islam, only moderate Muslims". By that, he meant, Muslims who don't take their religion too deeply can be said to be "moderate". Such people do exist, but they have little voice in their community. They are either drowned out by the CAIR's and other similar groups, or they are violently threatened, intimidated & attacked by "activists". The majority of Muslims are niether "moderate" nor militant, but they are conservative and conditioned to accept authority. Becsue the moderates cannot be heard, the majority follows the militants.

I believe the pathology of Islam runs deeper and broader than that. That is why so many - e.g. a quarter of all Muslims under 30 in the US, according to the recent Pew poll - approve of suicide bombing.

Conservative Muslims - the real majority - are the true problem, because they have all the anti-Western and anti-social baggage of the most militant Muslim. All Muslims I have met have problems with Jews, go on and on about Israel like a broken record, limit the interactions their children have with non-Muslims, view themselves as Muslims first and superior, don't seem to feel any compassion when a non-Muslim is in trouble but will rise to the defense of even the most criminal Muslim, etc. - and these are the "good" law-abiding ones.

The only really moderate Muslims are apostates. They are so secularized and assimilated that they are not viewed as real Muslims.

uh oh i sense a disturbance in the force

Has anyone mentioned that the baby in question was a boy? Could be a factor.

#146 ploome

Imagoil

"Not that there's anything wrong with it . . ."

:-D

#114: That's a pretty good summation, that's how they look at things - case in point, Iraq, where a pretty good percentage of the fighting isn't even aimed at the US soldiers, but rather at EACH OTHER. If they can't even agree on a common enemy, that pretty much tells you how they're going to run a country when left on their own. Frankly, I think Bush's next speech should go something like this:

"To the people of Iraq: In March of 2003, I sent US soldiers to free you from the dictator who had so ruthlessly ruled your lives and deaths for so many years, Yes, I admit some of our motive regarded the safety of our own country, as I believed Saddam Hussein was a threat to my citizens as well as to you and yours. We accomplished that mission, and freed you from the iron fist that you were held in for so long, emptying torture chambers, rape rooms, and inhumane prisons.

In the aftermath of Saddam's removal, you, the Iraqi people, stood up and voted to take your country back - you risked your lives at election booths, you chose a Prime Minister and a Cabinet, and you acknowledged a desire to move your nation forward, as a free, democratic society, in which everyone is equal and the laws are applied fairly to everyone. We stood with you and vowed to help you reach these goals, as they are lofty ones that we as a country have faced before.

However, in the ensuing months and years, you have reverted back to much of the infighting that allowed Saddam Hussein to come to power in the first place. Many of you are putting your tribal and religious differences above any desire for a free, democratic way of life, and those two philosophies are inherently at odds with one another. My country and its brave fighting forces have tried for years to help you come together as one, to solve these issues and allow your country to prosper; we have spent billions of dollars and thousands of American lives to help you achieve these goals. During this time, tens of thousands of Iraqis have died, and we are unable to stop the bloodshed if even those not committing the acts of terror refuse to denounce it or assist us in apprehending the culprits.

Therefore, it is with great sadness that I say it is now time for you, the Iraqi people, your police and your fighting forces, to step up and secure your nation, to turn it into the country of peace you declared a desire for so long ago. As much as the United States will stand by you and aid you in any way we can, it is not possible to force democracy and equality on a nation that does not treasure it and hold it above all else; it is obvious that you are not yet to the point where democracy is more important to you than thousands of years of religious hatred, and that we cannot participate in.

We thank those who have stood by us and will continue to help you financially as much as we can, but we can no longer leave our soldiers here to be wounded and killed in a civil war that has nothing to do with nation building. We have rid you of Saddam Hussein and have started you down the road to democracy; from this point forward, it is up to you to allow your country to thrive and prosper, to stop the violence and begin the healing. When that happens, we will be the first to step in and assist with the creation of a new, free Iraq; until then, we wish you the best and pray that you will find your way through these dark days. Please think of the world you are leaving your children to live in. God Bless."

But that's just me.

re: #135 buzzsawmonkey

re: #140 hous bin pharteen

re: #143 buzzsawmonkey

Nooo... not an apologist for Islam...or anybody else either. Just pointing out that judicial executions are , well, judicial executions and that trying to tart them up by calling them " fair " or " having exhausted all due process " etc is, imho putting lipstick on a pig.
(sorry, hope no-one's offended. By the metaphore, that is. Not by the anti-death penalty thing. )

#97 Lorenska

so it makes me wonder - if this is how the "shining beacon of hope" in the Middle East behaves, what hope is there for the rest of the region?

The only hope for the world is a continued winnowing, the "refiners fire".

Barack Obama speaks of Republicans as "social Darwinists" as though that is a slur. I'm not a Republican, but I am a social Darwinist, and as I read the prophets (like Jeremiah and Isaiah, not Mo) it seems God is one also.

We are living in interesting times and the portents are that they are going to get a lot more interesting. His wheels grind slow but exceeding fine.

Re post #150 - I meant to bold all the text up to "But that's just me," sorry - I meant the whole thing to be something I would suggest Bush should say. Pretty sure it won't happen, though, he seems to have blocked my number or something.

#127 threecoloursblue

BTW... how many rich white guys get topped ? Due process or no due process ?

If you are actually interested in crime statistics, which I doubt, La Griffe has some for you.

also
[Link: www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com...]
also
[Link: www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com...]

Contrary to what one might believe from watching "Law and Order", rich white men don't commit a lot of murders.

If the Magic Kingdom treated actual criminal murderers - a.k.a. islamic terrorists - the same way instead of openly exporting their degenerate ideology around the world, this modern-day plague might actually end. But every islamic state only considers it terrorism when it goes against their own regime. This poor girl got caught up in the misogynistic kingdom just to earn a living and will pay the ultimate price. I'm sure a native man would have had no trouble convincing the authorities of his heroism in trying to save the baby.

#157 buzzsawmonkey

You might find some of the articles at La Griffe interesting. He uses statistics to show that things are not often as "unjust" as the MSM presents.

re: #154 buzzsawmonkey

I'm outraged. Just not 44 times more outraged. One is one too many. I despise numbers games.re: #155 abu_garcia

OK. I read at it. I now know how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. However, I still don't know how many rich, white guys actually make the walk from the cell to the death chamber.

#159

I despise numbers games.re: #155 abu_garcia

Irritiating when reality rears its ugly head isn't it.

"Lalalalalala", he says "I can't hear you"

On yer bike, troll.

#151 three colorsblue

Just pointing out that judicial executions are , well, judicial executions and that trying to tart them up by calling them " fair " or " having exhausted all due process " etc is, imho putting lipstick on a pig.

No, no your not.
Your against the death penalty, fine.

But comparing what they do in the Magic Kingdom to the USA paints you as a fool. Maybe you need to go watch a few stoning videos and get back to us.

#159: Your interest in how many 'rich, white guys' end up in the death chamber is very compelling, considering that nowhere do you seem interested in how many 'rich, white men' have committed executable crimes. Shouldn't one beget the other? I mean, shouldn't the question be, "how many rich, white men, guilty and convicted of capital crimes, are actually executed for them?"? Or should we just gather some random folks from this group that you've chosen and execute them, just to even the playing field a little?

I may be old-fashioned, but I'm all for executing those who have committed crimes worthy of the death penalty, regardless of color, gender, height, weight, hair color, or bank balance. What is your particular goal here?

27 gringo 7/16/2007 10:20:10 am PDT reply quote
re: #1 pat
Coming from Sri Lanka it is unlikely she is a Muslim.
Possible, but more likely a Buddhist.
Buddhist 69.1%, Muslim 7.6%, Hindu 7.1%, Christian 6.2%, unspecified 10% (2001 census provisional data)

The name seems Muslim. Moreover in Saudi Arabia in recent times (to be specific after some Hindu fundamentalists brought down in 1992 a mosque constructed over a temple) only Muslims are recruited for any jobs, so as to bring down any sort of problems which could crop up due to multi-culturalism! ARAMCO is perhaps the only big exception

#131 so.cal.swede 7/16/2007 12:32:11 pm PDT reply quote

re: #129 moebius

#122 Lorenska

There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim.

Sorry for asking, but I've always wondered what this means... Is it some inside joke i'm missing out on?

Nelson DeMille, the famous writer of thrillers has one of his characters defining a moderate muslim as someone who just ran out of bullets!

re: #161 hous bin pharteen

I'm not the one doing the comparisons, you are. You're saying that there are good, western , democratic executions and I'm saying that there aren't.

re: #160 abu_garcia

And your version of reality is..?
I'll spell it out for you. The death penalty is, ABOVE ALL OTHER THINGS, the method which dictators of every stripe has used to control and engineer their societies. Please don't forget that it was, under Hitler , a crime to be a Jew, a communist etc. A crime punishable by death. With records kept. See also , Stalin, Mao, etc.
When it comes to civil society, the old joke still prevails...

" Lets hang him...

" No...give him a fair trial...

"OK, Lets give him a fair trial and hang him

The agenda goes like this.

No death penalty. Life in prison instead.

That ends up meaning, not really life. Maybe like 30 or 40 years before parole.

Then of course they really don't mean that either.

How many "rich white guys" are in prison compared to minorities?
That is not fair either. Guess we can't throw anyone in jail then either.

Or in plain English. Your argument makes no logical sense.

re: #163 Lorenska

Now, really, let's not be silly here. I'm all for not executing anyone. I merely noted that, given the use of the death penalty, some folks got the full treatment; some didn't.

re: #167 hous bin pharteen

You would seem to be saying that in those countries that don't have the death penalty there are no jails. That is " breaking news " stuff. Worthy of a hat tip.
The death penalty is just plain un-Christian. It allows no ground for redemption. To remove this is to step outside the concept of ethical Christian behaviour and substitute social pragmatism instead. But even that won't wash, because there is no available data showing that the death penalty is a deterrent.

#166 Your pissy little comment deserves to be cluebatted about a bit but I have to go for a while. You can check back later for more reality.

re: #170 abu_garcia

And ad hominem to you too.

A moderate Muslim is one who gets out of the car before the bomb goes off.

#169 threecolorsblue
Ok this annoys me. You can say that death penalty is something that you deplore. But I don't have to live as a Xtian. I don't. And the due process of law part is what separates dictators from free societies and presumption of innocence.

Due Process
Presumption of innocence
Adequate defense.

I admit that its sketchy in some cases here. but there is an attempt and an appeals process to safeguard the accused in case they were not provided a good enough defense.

I am sorry but you obviously have never seen Mexican justice, Eastern European Justice, or Central Asian Justice, where they would be glad to have a trial that was even comparable to the most unfair railroading legally possible in America. We have a shit load of legal safeguards and we use them.

This is not near the jackbooted country you presume to make of it because we allow the humane disposal of people proven to the satisfaction of the (very strict) laws of this land and its appeal process to have committed the worst crimes on our books. (None of which happen to be political in this country, BTW, and other distinction between us and the dictatorships of the world)

BTW I HAVE SOMEONE I KNOW WHO IS BEING HELD ON MOSTLY POLITICAL CHARGES IN TURKMENISTAN. I KNOW WHAT DICTATORSHIP LOOKS LIKE.

#168: buzzsawmonkey (in post #172) is saying exactly what I did - you're not asking how many of these so-called 'rich white guys' were put on death row and never executed, you seem completely uninterested in whether there are actually that many of that group that have been SENTENCED to death. You just want to know how many have been put to death, without first defining the population of how many SHOULD have been. That's illogical and it seems like you're just looking for someone to say "hey, you're right, not that many rich white guys are executed, that's racist" - never mind how few are convicted of capital crimes. (The only ones I can think of right now are Hacking and Peterson - one of which is ON death row, and if they'd let me, I'd push the plunger myself). And actually, even they only meet 2 of your oh-so-rational requirements, I don't think either was rich.

As for your comment that you'd rather never see anyone executed, really? NO ONE deserves to give up their right to live for certain crimes? Baby killers? Mass murderers? Are you saying you don't think Hussein deserved what he got?

re: #117 threecoloursblue

Only 53 people executed in America in 2006. Saudi Arabia twice as bad , eh ?

The issue isn't capital punishment. It's:

1) Whether or not it's deserved. I presume that there were no witnesses (who would stand by and watch while such a thing were done?) and so I suspect that the Saudi parents are just upset, and looking for someone to blame.

2) Whether or not the punishment fits the crime (if it was intentional murder, then capital punishment is deserved, but making a public spectacle out of it risks turning it into a circus).

As for "rich white guys," you can eliminate the "white" part of that and get your answer. That's how O.J. got off. He could afford to buy "the dream team" of slick lawyers to convince enough people on a jury to acquit him.

What's more, people who are more wealthy tend to do other rotten things when they go bad ("white collar crime") than murder, and so you'll see more poor people convicted of murder. As bad as white collar crime is, most people would rather be embezzled than murdered.

re: #174 Karagush

I don't believe in the death penalty...period. Therefore, I don't think that Mexico, eastern Europe, or anywhere else represents some kind of Utopia. What is so difficult about that? And no America isn't a jackbooted country.
re: #176 Live4Truth

I don't believe in capital punishment, therefore it follows that I don't think that it is ever " deserved "
re: #177 buzzsawmonkey
If I don't believe in the death penalty, then I'm hardly going to mount my charger and head off to make sure that ONE category of people were given it, now am I? And where did I say that American courts were inferior ? And btw, I never said that rich white guys didn't get the penalty to which they were sentenced, I said that they were rarely if ever given the death penalty to begin with. Subtle difference.

#178: Ok, so there's a "subtle difference" between whether or not this group (I am so weary of the phrase "rich white guys") RECEIVES the death penalty and whether or not the punishment is carried out - now you're saying they don't RECEIVE it often enough (your early posts referred to how often they 'took the walk from the cell to the chamber,' so you've made the change in argument, not I). So again, I ask - how often do these people COMMIT, GET ARRESTED FOR, GO ON TRIAL FOR, AND GET CONVICTED OF capital crimes that would allow the death penalty to BE the sentence? You've changed your argument from "it's not carried out often enough" to "it's not handed down enough." Will your next argument be, "They don't commit enough capital crimes?"

#179 Buzzsawmonkey
I could not agree with you more re religious argument against state sanctioned death penalty.
Boiled down:
Why should I care if a practice is un-Christian, if I am not Christian? what obligates me not to be unchristian, if I am Christian? Its my right to be a bad Christian if I want to be and the penalty comes after death, and is between me and my Maker.

If I am a Jew, then your argument becomes ridiculous.

I know the US also has capital punishment, but this is a big sign that Saudi Arabia is a sick, sick society. I watched the video from the old post Charles put up. We have executioners too, but we don't giggle at the thought of an executioner talking about how he does his job. Plus, people wring their hands about the death penalty. Agree or disagree about whether the US should have capital punishment, you have to admit the wretched kingdom is worse than Texas (of all places) in terms of the number of executions.

#169 threecolors

You would seem to be saying that in those countries that don't have the death penalty there are no jails.

No. I am not saying anything like that at all. Nice strawman.

I am saying the same argument you are using against the death penalty can be made for sending anyone to prison for anything. It is a bad argument and not based in fact.
Then you trot out this redemption talking point?
you think 10-15 years in prison isn't enough time to find redemption?

How about some facts?
[Link: query.nytimes.com...]

Mr. Smith was serving life sentences for murder, rape and other crimes when he killed Mrs. Payant.

The death penalty not a deterrent? Gee, if he had been put to death he would not have killed again. But don't worry. They aren't putting him to death again. They sent him to another nut ward so he has plenty of chances to kill again.

More facts

[Link: www.lexingtonprosecutor.com...]

The Racial Make-up of Death Row (Kentucky) You know
one a dem der red neck states.

Total on death row
40 100%
White 30 75.7%
Black 9 21.6%
Hispanic 1 2.7%

Last time I checked 30 is higher than 9. But then I took real math not the liberal equivalence.

[Link: www.dc.state.fl.us...]

Officer Richard J. Burke stabbed to death on October 12, 1980, at Florida State Prison, as he was escorting death row inmates from their cells to the shower.

[Link: www.angelfire.com...]

Authorities are investigating the death of a female corrections officer killed during an escape attempt at Charlotte Correctional Institution on Wednesday night
Eaglin was serving a life sentence for fatally stabbing a man in 1998 outside a Pinellas County topless bar. John Frederick Nichols had interrupted Eaglin as he tried to remove a stereo from a stolen car, and Eaglin stabbed him to death. Eaglin had been incarcerated at CCI since Jan. 23, 2001.

Ahhh...
Facts.
Runaway, runaway.

Too numerous to mention.

Give in. Fry the lotta them! For Jesus.

/sorryforevermentioningtherichwhiteguything

re: #186 threecoloursblue

Too numerous to mention.

Fry the lotta them! For Jesus.

/sorryforevermentioningtherichwhiteguyth ing

That's my favorite t-shirt!

And by the way: #185 hous bin pharteen

if you look at the list of executions at, for example, Texan prisons, look at the education levels and occupations of the executed whites. I never meant my comment to be taken so literally. It's a combination of colour, class, and colour and class of victim.

#186 threecolursblue

Give in. Fry the lotta them! For Jesus.

The point is, if your opinion is based on FACTS and LOGIC then perhaps your opinion is correct. In that case it should be defended. You will in fact sway people to your point of view.
When it is based on personal feelings arrived at with questionable facts then maybe you need to rethink your opinion. That is what honest, intelligent people do. Base their opinions on facts and adjust them when they learn new facts.
Of course when people start doing that, they stop being liberals.

re: #188 threecoloursblue

And by the way: #185 hous bin pharteen

if you look at the list of executions at, for example, Texan prisons, look at the education levels and occupations of the executed whites. I never meant my comment to be taken so literally. It's a combination of colour, class, and colour and class of victim.

Yes?

OK. I've got a teenage son who's going to murder me if I don't give him this BEBO toy (computer).

oiche mhaith.

188 Three Colors Blue

It's a combination of colour, class, and colour and class of victim.

There are lots of combinations involved. Our legal system is not perfect but it does afford the accused an attorney paid for by the state. Our legal system is not run by "Christians."

If you don't want to end up on Death Row the answer is quite simple. Don't commit a heinous crime.

How about some sympathy for the victims?

Having someone you loved brutally murdered usually makes you rethink restorative justice.

But sometimes not.

re: #192 buzzsawmonkey

Buzz...

Terrific post!

#188 threecoloursblue.

if you look at the list of executions at, for example, Texan prisons, look at the education levels and occupations of the executed whites

.

Thats why we provide facts and links to back up our opinions.
Making blanket statements are not facts.

If you want to argue that executions should be more fair.
That there have been innocents on death row and could have been put to death. These are legit opinions. But doing away with the death penalty does not solve these problems. I am all for harsh penalties for prosecutors who push cases knowing they are weak for example.
I am all for high standards of proving guilt.
I don't think some of these monsters should be given life in prison with the chance for parole and escape.

Now I am done beating this dead horse.

Saudi Arabia - Die already, will you?

Our friends in the House of Saud

With friends like the saudis, I have to wonder how long this country can last. As long as our politians are eagarly taking saudi money, there is no fix. F*ck the saudis and the greedy bastards in our government , who have sold out our country. just ranting...

re: #192 buzzsawmonkey

Man, you just don't do irony, do you?

re: #188 threecoloursblue

And by the way: #185 hous bin pharteen

if you look at the list of executions at, for example, Texan prisons, look at the education levels and occupations of the executed whites. I never meant my comment to be taken so literally. It's a combination of colour, class, and colour and class of victim.

It's tiresome already.
People are not executed for dropping out of high school , nor are they executed as some kind of political control system as you tried to claim.
They get executed for comitting heinous crimes, often against their own poor undereducated neighbors.

Putz.

Savages. Uncivilised barbarians. Most of the world has grown up over the past 1,400 years - particularly the parts with money.

Saudi Arabia is still stuck in the 7th Century tribal mindset of the lunatic warrior they worship.

Preaching to the choir, I know - but I had to get it off my back.

Sickening.

re: #200 Jimash

No you don't. And, given all of your facts and stats, why the old saying.. "Them that have the capital, don't get the punishment "

Not so different from the medieval saying
"A poor man is hung by the neck, a rich man by the purse"

re: #203 threecoloursblue

re: #200 Jimash

No you don't. And, given all of your facts and stats, why the old saying.. "Them that have the capital, don't get the punishment "

Not so different from the medieval saying
"A poor man is hung by the neck, a rich man by the purse"

Whoa, you are just not getting it.
I guess that your non-sequitor opening refers to your "Irony" which was a smarmy bigoted anti-Christian joke.
You have already been disabused of the Race argument and I am just hearing my local news about another rich African-American gentleman who shot a man dead in his bedroom with multiple witnesses and yes, because he is rich, his defense is better than I could get.
Unlike medieval times or KSA, criminals in the US are not executed foor trivial matters. Generally speaking someone has lost their life due to the actions of the defendant. Generally speaking, the defendant has committed murder on purpose, and forfiets his own life.
I see no purpose to storing deranged killers . None.
The other guys and girls have pointed out the falacity of all your arguments from the quasi-religious to the political.
As far as I can see you are just parroting some garbage that you thought sounded good. But it's horseshit as we have seen .
No one is executing trainloads of people in the US.
Political cases do not end with the death penalty in this country.
We have no Gulags to speak of and cannot even locate the alleged secret prisons in Europe.
Your offensive comparisons and declarations do not enhance your shallow weak opinion.
John Cooey should die. Execute him 5 times. Dig him up and do it again.
Folks are not executed because they are poor. Sometimes they get off because they are rich. I am truly sorry you cannot tell the difference and are so eager to KOS out on your memes.

re: #206 buzzsawmonkey

It makes me sad.

re: #205 Jimash

OK, where to begin. The other lads and lasses haven't pointed out anything, religious or not. They said that the law prevailed, not Christian ethics, and gave themselves the get-out that they had the right to be both Christian and pragmatic by choosing to meet their maker on judgement day. Fine, but why bother with religion at all then, since " by their deeds shall ye know them " is the modus vivendi of Christianity. And I know very few Jews in Europe who are pro-capital punishment.

And, for the umpteenth time, if I am against the death penalty, why would I propose that KSA is a right-on place with an admirable justice system?

And as for
re: #185 hous bin pharteen

and the why put anyone in jail for anything stuff... where did I imply that ? And if they'd executed the people who killed in jail they wouldn't have killed again . Well, yea ! Or, if they'd used screening to find weapons before escorting dangerous prisoners? Anyway this is all what ifery. And begs the question, what do executions achieve except revenge on some poor bastard with a crappy lawyer. If they really were effective there'd be no such thing as plea bargining, everyone on a capital charge would be executed if found guilty.

This is just a demonstration of the compassion and mercy of Allah. I'm so glad that these savages value life the same way we do. I'm so glad that our western troops protected their society from the evils of the Iraqi Army. I still think we attacked the wrong country. I'd love to see the house of Saad and their fat-assed geriatric kiddy-fiddler king go down at the hands of their own people. This whole country needs to collapes like a deck of cards and go b ack to their peaceful pre-oil days where locusts were a form of protein in their diet and a chevy caprice was just a dream.
If we really wanted to cease terrorism, we'd turn the oilfields of saudi and mecca na medina into the worlds most beautiful glass parking lots.
Thats what really needs to be done.

re: #209 baconeatingkaffir

Not at all. Slowly but surely they're getting the message.
Quote: "Should we just think of and preserve the rights of the murderer and not think of the rights of others " said Suhaila Hammad of the Saudi Arabia's National Society of Human Rights.
And Suhaila is a womans name. Leaps and bounds, what?

#208 threecolors

See, this is why you are making a fool of yourself.

and the why put anyone in jail for anything stuff... where did I imply that ?

How dense are you? I said if your argument was valid for punishment by execution, it would be valid for ANY punishment. THAT would be logical and consistent. But then liberals are allergic to logic and consistency.

And begs the question, what do executions achieve except revenge on some poor bastard with a crappy lawyer.

WTF?
Some of the most evil people on the planet are "some poor bastard with a crappy lawyer"
Are you effing kidding me? And its done for revenge? You cant separate murderers and capital punishment from every other crime and punishment. Do you understand that? It is revenge to execute a murderer? How so? The same way it is "revenge" to lock up an armed robber? Maybe he is just a poor sucker with a bad lawyer also?
Do you see the glaring problem here with your thinking process?
You have no freaking clue why these people are even on death row do you? Maybe you need to contact the police department of the closest big city and see if you can go on a ride along. Maybe catch the next homicide. Learn what the hell your talking about instead of in the abstract.

Or, if they'd used screening to find weapons before escorting dangerous prisoners?

So its the prison guards fault they got killed?

And you are spouting christian reasons to be against the death penalty? What a joke.
This is getting dumber by the minute.

The "custodian of the two hollow places" first of all fears the sword of that executioner on his own neck.

And the crowd of onlookers (sexually aroused or not) want to see it there as well.

re: #211 House bin phaeton

Yes , I see what you mean by the " valid for any punishment" thing. But why shouldn't it ? Bad law is bad law, whether the death penalty is the end result or not, surely ? Or what am I not getting?
And I know why people are on death row. I know terrorist cases where I live, the details of which would turn your stomach, but I still don't believe the death penalty is anything other than retribution. And in a political case it's known by experience to be counter-productive.
However, I DO realize that proponents of the death penalty aren't some kind of fascist but I'm never, as a European, going to consider it. In fact , given the behavior of the "terrible twins " in Poland, it's more necessary than ever IMHO to disassociate myself from any moves to restore it.
As an American, living in what is essentially a very decent society which has never lurched towards totalitarianism, you have the luxury of a different opinion. Do, however, allow others whose experiences have been less benign, their opinion.
And now, I quit. Thanks for the fray, ad homonym and all!

#213 three...

as a European, going to consider it.

We don't have the baggage that you have over there. (we have our own however)
That is understandable. Now that is an argument that makes sense and is logical.
What country are you in, may I ask?

In fact , given the behavior of the "terrible twins " in Poland

,
I am not familiar with this story.
Do you have a link?

Public beheadings are so 15th century

re: #214 hous bin pharteen

I didn't know either, so ilooked it up.
[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]
(shrugs)

re: #214 hous bin pharteen

Hi. Ireland.
And, just Google Poland and politics and see for yourself their support for right-wing Catholic parties . And in eastern europe right wing MEANS right wing!
Gotta go.