LGF

-RetweetMassive Bridge Collapses in Minneapolis

Wed, Aug 1, 2007 at 4:43:48 pm PDT

UPDATE at 8/1/07 4:54:01 pm:

The Star Tribune: I-35W bridge collapses.

The Interstate Hwy. 35W bridge over the Mississippi River collapsed around 6:15 p.m. today, dumping at least eight cars and a truck into the water and land below. It was not clear how many people might be hurt or killed. ...

The collapse left some cars intact on the deck of the bridge, but others tumbled into the river, according to Joe Blade, a resident of the Riverview Tower at 1920 South First St.

“The bridge is collapsed into the river,” said Blade, speaking to a reporter from his apartment in the tower. “There’s black smoke coming out from underneath it at the southern edge of the collapse.”

Another resident of the tower said she heard the bridge collapse. “First I heard this huge roar,” said Leone Carstens. “I was at my computer. Initially I thought, Wow was that an airplane?” The scene that greeted her when she looked out her window was “awful,” she said.

The bridge was crowded with rush hour vehicles when it collapsed, she said. Thick black smoke rose up from the bridge as at least one vehicle burned on the cement below, she said. She said she couldn’t make out vehicles in the water, but there was debris.

“It could be people in the water. It may just be stuff sticking up out of the water,” she said. “They don’t seem to be moving.”

UPDATE at 8/1/07 4:58:11 pm:

A live feed from Minneapolis WCCO.com: CBS Video Viewer.

UPDATE at 8/1/07 5:01:33 pm:

Another live feed: kare11.com - KARE 11 Television :: Minneapolis, St. Paul.

UPDATE at 8/1/07 5:14:00 pm:

KARE has reported that there was no work going on beneath the bridge, contradicting earlier reports.

And Homeland Security is on the scene, which is undoubtedly routine. At the moment, there is no sign of sabotage or terrorism; no one has reported any explosions, and it seems to be a massive structural failure.

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645 comments

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1 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:44:56pm

God have mercy.

2 sloggin420[deleted]  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:44:57pm
3 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:45:07pm

Twin Cities lizards, check in, please.

4 Carridine  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:45:13pm

Interesting... look at the Headline Ribbon in green...

5 daughter of patriots  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:45:16pm

8 cars in the drink?

6 tblot  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:45:41pm

Lets pray everyone is ok

7 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:46:02pm

Noam - I was headed over your way tomorrow. Not so sure now.

8 Charles  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:46:24pm

re: #5 daughter of patriots

8 cars in the drink?

It's a LOT more than 8.

9 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:47:00pm

The pictures look horrible. 5 or 6 entire spans are down.

10 Resistance Girl  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:47:12pm

Folks in the center section stranded in the water

11 daughter of patriots  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:47:25pm

re: #8 Charles

re: #5 daughter of patriots

8 cars in the drink?

It's a LOT more than 8.

That's awful! My prayers for everyone getting out alive.

12 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:47:33pm

re: #7 mama winger

I94 will be a little busy, but you should have nothing to worry about.

Welcome back.

13 bosforus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:47:40pm

horirble. on that note, i'm heading home.

14 Tosprops  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:47:45pm

A school bus full of kids stopped just before going over the edge, thank goodness.

15 Carridine  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:47:47pm

So... we've made it past saber-toothed tigers and black plague, but we have replaced those threats with Bhopal (cyanide mass poisoning) and collapsing infrastructure...

/death STILL a big part of life

16 inkling  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:47:57pm

Here's the Star Trib link.

17 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:48:14pm

reports are there was constrution going on in the area at the time of collaspe

18 NoSubmission  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:48:20pm

Oh my God.

19 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:48:23pm

They're reporting about 20 cars in the water. Emergency crews are already on the scene and taking people off the bridge to safety.

20 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:48:24pm

30 kids saved from school bus..thank GOD.

21 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:48:34pm

re: #12 Noam Sayin'

Thanks Noam. I have to look at my travel route and see what's doin there.

22 bosforus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:49:01pm

looks like the concrete in between the supports failed. guess we'll find out.

23 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:49:01pm

School bus is IN the water - local news.

24 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:49:02pm

the center fell in first

25 Haint  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:49:04pm

apparently a school bus went into the river

26 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:49:20pm

Lord have mercy.

27 commadore183  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:49:25pm

May God help those that have survived, and hope that the rescuers get the victims in time.

28 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:49:35pm

re: #14 Tosprops

A school bus full of kids stopped just before going over the edge, thank goodness.

That bus should be empty of children this time of day, Tosprops. The driver probably made it out okay.

29 NoSubmission  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:49:45pm

This is terrible. Most of the bridges in NYC were in a near-state of collapse not long ago due to neglect. How frightening!

30 Haint  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:49:48pm

Oh, just ol' Shep hyping...who'd have thought it

31 grumpy old codger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:49:48pm

The Joos did it in revenge for MN voting for Ellison. HEP, HEP! Pogrom time!

32 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:49:56pm

FOX news says kids are OK - lots of conflicting info. As would be expected.

33 aafflyer  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:49:58pm

With all the spans that collapsed, I suspect foul play ...

34 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:50:35pm

I'm seeing no school bus in the water, mama.

35 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:50:38pm

Noam - how will first responders get there? By water?

36 jrausta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:50:44pm

My neighbor crossed this same span about 5p...an hour before it collapsed. God bless all involved. Doesn't look to be anything more than a structural failure although there's reports about nearby construction although I don't know how proximate it was to the bridge.

37 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:50:59pm

This brings back memories...damn

38 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:51:08pm

re: #1 mama winger

Hi, mama winger!

39 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:51:13pm

This is a major blow to Minneapolis. Bridges over the Mississippi are essential to the economy of the Twin Cities, and 35W is one of the most important- running roughly north and south.

This is terrible.

40 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:51:30pm

I have never seen anything like this in my life..not on this scope.

G-d help them.

It is hard to watch. Hope all the lizards in the area are OK.

41 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:51:36pm

re: #36 jrausta

Thank God your neighbor is OK.

42 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:52:17pm

I have friends who take this bridge every day. Not out of the ordinary for them to work late and avoid rush hour traffic.

43 rabidfox  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:52:21pm

Shep is reporting that the bridge construction was just resurfacing the road way. For what it's worth.

44 missouri boy  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:52:27pm

I thought the bridges in Missouri were bad...

45 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:52:34pm

re: #38 MandyManners

Hi Mandy! I'm home for today and headed out again tomorrow. If I can. We'll see now, with this bridge thing.

46 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:52:43pm

re: #40 NY Nana

I have never seen anything like this in my life..not on this scope.

G-d help them.

It is hard to watch. Hope all the lizards in the area are OK.


me either...not since 9-11

47 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:53:08pm

I've been over that bridge a few times. Yikes!

48 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:53:11pm

reports out of minneapolis/st paul area people are saying the middle collapsed first

49 Edouard  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:53:22pm

What happened? Was there a blast?

50 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:53:27pm

At rush hour? How highup was it? How old was the steel?

51 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:53:28pm

#3 Noam Sayin' 8/01/2007 4:45:07 pm PDT reply quote

Twin Cities lizards, check in, please.


Here.

52 therewaslight  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:53:35pm

Wasn't the CAIR flying Imams case from Minneapolis? Just a coincidence I guess.

I suspect this massive bridge just collapsed of its own accord, as bridges often do.

53 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:53:58pm
“First I heard this huge roar,” said Leone Carstens. “I was at my computer. Initially I thought, Wow was that an airplane?”

Star Tribune

54 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:54:04pm

appreantly its about 35 feet concrete bridge

55 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:54:05pm

re: #35 mama winger

Noam - how will first responders get there? By water?

There are plenty of access roads to the river underneath the bridge on both sides of the river - including boat launches.

I'm seeing a fire crew prop up a ladder to part of the fallen bridge.

56 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:54:17pm

This is really hard to watch.

57 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:54:28pm

re: #45 mama winger

Take care, wherever you are, however you go.

58 rabidfox  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:54:35pm

I hope to G*d that it was just some sort of structural failure and not ...

59 bulwrk  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:54:39pm

That looks like a school bus trapped between the burning semi and the shoulder.

60 Haint  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:54:42pm

Shep says that a woman reported hearing a roar while on the computer, when she looked out the window the collapse was complete (for what thats worth)

61 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:54:52pm

re: #52 therewaslight

Wasn't the CAIR flying Imams case from Minneapolis? Just a coincidence I guess.

I suspect this massive bridge just collapsed of its own accord, as bridges often do.


I don't remember in my lifetime...something like this.

62 commadore183  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:55:05pm

I hope that what's left of the bridge doesn't collapse further, trapping any rescue workers.

63 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:55:07pm

God bless the rescue workers. What courage and dedication.

64 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:55:15pm

This is the stuff of nightmares!

65 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:55:16pm

re: #52 therewaslight

Wasn't the CAIR flying Imams case from Minneapolis? Just a coincidence I guess.

I suspect this massive bridge just collapsed of its own accord, as bridges often do.

Knock that shit off!

66 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:55:43pm

Thank God we have world class trauma units here in the minneapolis/st paul area

67 Stinky Wizzleteats  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:55:47pm

Is this the bridge downtown?

68 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:55:55pm

re: #3 Noam Sayin'

Noam - glad to know you weren't out on the bridge. Went on 35E today
Prayers out to the rescue workers and victims

69 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:55:57pm

re: #57 MandyManners

Thanks Mandy.

I missed you guys.

I hate to come back to this awful news. Lots of folks travel through that area on their way to camping and fishing vacations. Cars full of kiddoes, probably.

70 Charles  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:55:57pm

Does any TV station in Minn. have a live feed?

71 rabidfox  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:56:07pm

You're right Noam. I appologize.

72 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:56:11pm

Minneapolis' WCCO is streaming.

73 Black George Bush  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:56:20pm

I'll definitely have to see what the structural engineers in my office think about this. God bless all involved!

74 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:56:22pm

re: #61 storagemanager

Just a few years ago Storage, a bridge here in Oklahoma (I-40 major interstate) fell after being hit by a barge. My sister lives in that town.

75 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:56:23pm

KARE11.com may

76 christheprofessor  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:56:23pm

Fox needs to fire Shep...

77 Pamela  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:56:28pm

trying to reach my friends there.

78 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:56:46pm

re: #70 Charles

I'll look around for one.

79 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:56:47pm

Lots of salt used on the ice there; let's wait for the state/federal inspectors, at least. The definitive rulling from prisonplanet/loose change experts will be available soon.

80 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:56:51pm

# 50 MandyManners

At rush hour? How highup was it? How old was the steel?

From the John Weeks' (yes, the aviation writer) page on his bridge:

%u2022 Structure ID: NBI: 9340.
%u2022 Location: River Mile 853.20.
%u2022 River Elevation: 725 Feet.
%u2022 Highway: I-35W.
%u2022 Daily Traffic Count: 140,000 (2002).
%u2022 Bridge Type: Steel Arch Deck Truss Bridge.
%u2022 Length: 1,907 Feet, 458 Foot Longest Span.
%u2022 Width: 8 Traffic Lanes, 108 Feet.
%u2022 Navigation Channel Width: 390 Feet.
%u2022 Height Above Water: 64 Feet.
%u2022 Date Built: Opened November 1967.
Claim to fame: was built with a single 458 foot long steel arch to avoid putting any piers in the water to impede river navigation.

This bridge features an anti-ice system. A series of PVC pipes carries a deicer fluid to outlets that are drilled into the deck of the bridge. When the temperature for ice is right, the deicer fluid is pumped onto the bridge deck. This system has proven to be successful enough that it is being installed on other bridges in Minnesota.

81 Cygnus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:56:51pm

If the 2001 Nisqually quake in WA state had gone on 30 seconds more, the Alaska Way Viaduct probably would have ended up like this. Very creepy seeing these pictures.

I hope everybody's ok.

82 RTLM  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:56:51pm

Thank God the kids in the school bus are OK

83 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:57:01pm

re: #60 Haint

A lady was talking to KSTP reporters that she felt a rumble before it collapsed, she had just gone over it.

84 me  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:57:01pm

holy sh*t Wikipedia was quick on this one:


[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]


[edit] 2007 Collapse
On Wednesday, August 1, 2007, a portion of the I-35W Bridge near University Avenue collapsed around 6:15pm CST, leaving multiple vehicles in the Mississippi River. Several vehicles also caught fire. [1] As many as 50 vehicles were involved in the collapse. [2] There has been road construction going on for several weeks. The arch bridge has been built in the 1960s. [3] The length is approximately 1900 ft. Trucks, cars and bike riders went into the water, and it appears there are roughly 30-60 vehicles directly affected. The bridge was under construction at the time, however they were only repairing the surface. [4]
85 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:57:06pm

re: #78 Noam Sayin'

WCCO- I already got it.

86 Tosprops  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:57:35pm

How long will it take for the moonbats to blame Bush?

Fox news says kids escaped serious injury though they were emotionally shaken.

A reported at the scene said that as many as 20 cars went into the water. :(

87 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:57:39pm
88 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:57:47pm

re: #74 goodbye_natalie

re: #61 storagemanager

Just a few years ago Storage, a bridge here in Oklahoma (I-40 major interstate) fell after being hit by a barge. My sister lives in that town.


Nothing hit this one.

89 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:58:07pm

they think there might have been an explosion and a barge

90 ChenZhen  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:58:16pm

My mom just called me to make sure I wasn't there, but cell coverage seems to be spotty over here. Everyone is calling everyone. Rush hour too. What a nightmare.

91 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:58:21pm

in the area

92 Haint  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:58:23pm

anyone here know if the bridges central roadway was supported underneath?

93 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:58:25pm

re: #88 storagemanager

How do you know?

94 jcbunga  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:58:29pm

God help them

95 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:58:36pm

CNN is showing pics of what it used to look like, amazine

96 GregInSeattle  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:58:36pm

re: #81 Cygnus

No earthquake in this case...

97 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:58:53pm

re: #90 ChenZhen

Are you from the Twin Cities area, Chen? I'm glad you're OK.

98 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:59:12pm

re: #90 ChenZhen

Chen, glad to know you are ok as well.

99 therewaslight  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:59:27pm

re: #65 Noam Sayin'

re: #52 therewaslight

Wasn't the CAIR flying Imams case from Minneapolis? Just a coincidence I guess.

I suspect this massive bridge just collapsed of its own accord, as bridges often do.

Knock that shit off!

Sorry, I did not mean to offend but that was my first reaction. Coincidence and disbelief.

My prayers are with the victims of this tragedy.

100 Charles  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:59:28pm

Live feed now linked in an update above...

101 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:59:28pm

re: #89 g3n3r1c

they think there might have been an explosion and a barge


That...makes sense...

102 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 4:59:31pm

re: #72 Sharmuta

Thanks, I 'm not getting audio just video. looks like a school bus in the middle there.

103 Haint  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:00:18pm

re: #101 storagemanager

where did you hear that?

104 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:00:19pm

I have a good friend on the local fire department here. He is on the dive rescue team. I am gaining a whole new appreciation of what he does tonight as I watch these pictures.

God help them.

105 MilkOfMalfeasance  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:00:24pm

Horrible. Wish I could help. All the Minn Lizards ok?

106 justamomof4  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:00:44pm

Scenes like this just suck the breath out of you . Prayers go out to everyone involved.

107 Sunshine 1963[deleted]  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:00:47pm
108 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:00:48pm

MNDOT reporting 50 cars in the water. Do not know the cause of the collapse.

109 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:01:05pm

re: #93 goodbye_natalie

re: #88 storagemanager

How do you know?


that is not what they are saying...but...I get your point...to early.

110 tblot  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:01:11pm

They said most of cars were at a stop in rush hour traffic. So no buddy knows how many cars in water

111 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:01:35pm

I am totally stunned by the images of this. Life changes so fast.

112 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:01:37pm

re: #108 Noam Sayin'

Damn Norm. I'm glad you're safe and hope all your friends and family as well.

113 Noam Sayin'[deleted]  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:01:47pm
114 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:02:10pm

the guy at fox...said I have never seen anything like this.

115 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:02:38pm

Let's not look for trouble, okay? There's enough of it without jumping to unfounded conclusions.

116 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:02:43pm

Ma Sands? Killian? Check in, please.

117 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:02:59pm

re: #108 Noam Sayin'

Not only the cars in the river, but we don't know what is underneath the wreckage. Thank goodness we have such fantastic medical and rescue services in the Twin Cities area.

118 Highrise  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:02:59pm

re: #14 Tosprops

A school bus full of kids stopped just before going over the edge, thank goodness.

That is one bus driver I hope gets a raise for saving lives. How disastrous that would have been and how alert he/she must have been.

I hope all are ok :( .
===

104 mama winger 8/01/2007 5:00:19 pm PDT reply quote

I have a good friend on the local fire department here. He is on the dive rescue team. I am gaining a whole new appreciation of what he does tonight as I watch these pictures.

They are TRULY amazing people.

119 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:03:00pm

mndot agent is on(state road construction) both north and south bound has collapsed - the road construction was a mill and resurface the bridge was structerly ok check ever year

120 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:03:03pm

# 107 Sunshine 1963

Collapse? I'm sorry lizards, but I have my doubts. Doesn't Minn. muslim population rival dearborn,MI.?
Maybe I'm paranoid, but something just doesn't seem right to me. May God be with everyone involved in this horrific tradgedy.


Doubt it. Not their style.

121 commadore183  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:03:20pm

Local news said that there are storms on the way, so the rescuers need to work fast if they don't want an more hassles.

122 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:03:40pm

re: #114 storagemanager

Yeah, I heard that too. Never might be a bit much, but it is quite awful

123 Thanos  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:03:43pm

It's looking like the the folks in Minneapolis are responding fantastically by immediately going to rescue before the authorities arrived... I see lots of cars, but so far not seeing anything that looks like casualties, except for the big rigs. Betting something they did in the construction caused tensile structure failure... we probably got a slow motion collapse, one end letting go giving some folks time to brake and brace. So far no reports of casualties.

I am so hoping all came out alive, but those big rigs look in bad shape...

124 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:04:21pm

Minneapolis lizards -

Any idea of how many rescue vehicles are available to you? Enough in the immediate area for this type of operation?

125 The Shadow Do  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:04:28pm

There will be a PE or three with some splainin' to do at MNDOT. Anything this catastrophic should have been flagged via regular inspection work.

126 Tosprops  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:04:42pm

That is a catastrophic failure. Parts of the bridge fell on the Interstate below it. Please pray for these people and their families. This is horrible.

127 Haint  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:04:47pm

How far did the roadway fall?

128 GregInSeattle  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:04:49pm

re: #113 Noam Sayin'

We're not a news agency. Can't we conjecture a little, as long as it isn't too over the top? After all, we're the #1 target of Al Qaeda and Sudden Jihad Sufferers.

129 FQ Kafir  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:04:55pm

For any other people who wonder about the connection between Islam and the number 19.

I'm not saying this is terrorism, but...


--> August 1, 07 in the Hijri (Arabic) calendar is 18/07/1428

180728 = 2 * 2 * 2 * 19 * 29 * 41

--> In the Middle East it is August 2nd at this moment (+2:00 or +3:00 GMT)

8/02/2007---8+0+2+2+0+0+7 = 19

Probably coincidence, but sometimes I wonder.

130 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:04:57pm

re: #121 commadore183

Yeah, finally have some rain coming, but could have held out for awhile now. Need to work fast before dark as well.

131 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:05:05pm

OT, while we watch the news
Russia claims North Pole by submarine flag planting

Russia will fire the starting gun on the world’s last colonial scramble today when a submarine plants a flag under the North Pole to symbolize the Kremlin’s claim to the Arctic and its vast energy resources.

In an unprecedented and potentially perilous mission, veteran Arctic explorer Artur Chilingarov will descend 14,000 feet in a deep sea submersible and drop a Russian tricolor cast in titanium onto the seabed.

In a nation that, in Soviet times, pioneered Arctic exploration, Mr Chilingarov’s expedition has fired the Russian public’s imagination.

But Mr Chilingarov also caused international concern after declaring that the Arctic and the North Pole were Russian.

132 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:05:24pm

re: #122 mnkaren

re: #114 storagemanager

Yeah, I heard that too. Never might be a bit much, but it is quite awful


homeland security and the F.B.I said we may be hit this summer...I will not bury my head.

133 ChenZhen  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:05:31pm

re: #98 mnkaren

re: #90 ChenZhen

Chen, glad to know you are ok as well.

Hey thanks gang. This is a major artery in Mpls. I crossed that bridge just last week. I'm in shock.

134 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:05:57pm

i was also on that bridge last weekend

135 mrfocus[deleted]  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:05:59pm
136 BrianA  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:06:00pm

Here is a link with photos of the bridge underside posted by the other Les in the previous thread.
[Link: www.johnweeks.com...]

137 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:06:06pm

Here's a map of Minneapolis for orientation purposes.

138 Highrise  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:06:12pm

re: #76 christheprofessor

Fox needs to fire Shep...

I used to like him until he looked into the camera and said that anyone who doesn't believe the fact that the earth is warming is nuts and that they can debate why of course.

I was surprised with so much conflicting info on this subject he'd have taken such a view and I had to rerun that part over and over to see if he was joking..and I don't think he was. I could be wrong.

139 Charles  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:06:24pm

No work going on beneath the bridge -- just heard on KARE 11.

140 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:06:29pm

re: #129 FQ Kafir

1+2= that's a stupid comment.

141 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:06:47pm

re: #133 ChenZhen

Me too Chen, I didn't take 35W today, but I did take 35E, but it seems inconceivable that something like this can happen, yet I know it does. Are you near 35W Chen?

142 commadore183  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:07:03pm

A triage has been set up. Didn't look like there were any bodies from the few seconds they showed.

Local reports said that more of the bridge could collapse. Not sure if I heard that right, though.

143 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:07:35pm

Any earth rumblings? Like an earthquake or something?

144 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:07:52pm

# 127 Haint 8/01/2007 5:04:47 pm PDT reply quote

How far did the roadway fall?


the height above the water is 64 feet.

145 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:07:57pm

re: #128 GregInSeattle

re: #113 Noam Sayin'

We're not a news agency. Can't we conjecture a little, as long as it isn't too over the top? After all, we're the #1 target of Al Qaeda and Sudden Jihad Sufferers.

And everybody has to out-do each other with the speculation, trailing off into idiocy. I take this bridge frequently and have already stated, as have others, that this bridge was going through resurfacing work - had been for months. No doubt it was structurally compromised by this work and a concentration of vehicles to one lane in each direction. Two tractor-trailer rigs are in the water right next to each other. Go look up Occam's Razor.

146 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:08:17pm

re: #143 mama winger
No

147 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:08:23pm

re: #143 mama winger

WCCO reporting 2 witnesses felt the bridge tilt.

148 FQ Kafir  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:08:30pm

re: #140 Killgore Trout

Hey man...9/11/2001

9112001= 19 * 19 * 43 * 587

Stupid? C'mon, man. Cut me some slack.

149 Stinky Wizzleteats  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:08:32pm

I question the timing.

150 Tosprops  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:08:32pm

People are reporting that they heard the rumble of the collapse, but, so far, no reports of hearing an explosion before the collapse. So, while you never know until an investigation, but it seems at this point that the bridge just gave out.

151 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:09:01pm

re: #143 mama winger

I think the rumble that people felt was compared to an earthquake, but no earthquake in MN

152 WrathofG-d  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:09:02pm

Well I know that fire doesn't bend metal...

and there is no evidence of fire here...


so... I'm just confused. Man made things don't just fail do they?

153 Pamela  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:09:02pm

4th section in danger of collapsing now.

154 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:09:07pm

re: #147 Sharmuta

I hate bridges. This is just a nightmare.

155 Haint  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:09:12pm

re: #144 The Other Les

so that school bus fell 64 ft and all the kids walked away?...thats an advertisement for some school bus seat manufacturer

156 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:09:17pm

re: #133 ChenZhen

Thank G-d you are OK...

They are afraid another section will collapse?

157 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:09:43pm

F.B.I. called in...checking for terrorism signs...said so outright on Channel 5...

158 commadore183  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:09:51pm

Looked like a crane has arrived.

God blees those involved.

159 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:10:12pm

re: #155 Haint

I think the bus was stopped or caught on rails or guardrails

160 imploder  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:10:29pm

What the eff!?

161 ChenZhen  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:10:39pm

re: #141 mnkaren

re: #133 ChenZhen

Me too Chen, I didn't take 35W today, but I did take 35E, but it seems inconceivable that something like this can happen, yet I know it does. Are you near 35W Chen?

No I'm in the norther suburbs, so I only cross that bridge if I have a meeting on that side of town.

162 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:10:39pm

re: #154 mama winger

Welcome home! Trying to touch base with all my grown kids...still not able with two who could have been there...

163 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:10:54pm

re: #157 Ma Sands

F.B.I. called in...checking for terrorism signs...said so outright on Channel 5...

Wow. I suppose that they would almost have to check that out, in any case.

Hi Ma! I am so glad you checked in !

164 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:10:56pm

Are those locks that I am seeing on TV?

165 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:11:00pm

looks like they have a couple small fires going right now

166 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:11:01pm

re: #142 commadore183

Local reports said that more of the bridge could collapse. Not sure if I heard that right, though.

Sadly, you did hear right...

I wonder when the last inspection was done.

167 commadore183  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:11:06pm

re: #158 commadore183

Looked like a crane has arrived.

God blees those involved.

PIMF: Bless

168 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:11:07pm

We are not at war with Islam...why would this be an attack?...just bad building from Bush...move on...nothing to see here.

169 Allah al Fubar  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:11:15pm

Which airport was having all the difficulties lately with Somali's?

Praying for the victims and hoping for the best.

170 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:11:25pm

# 156 NY Nana

re: #133 ChenZhen

Thank G-d you are OK...

They are afraid another section will collapse?


The whole structure is down.

171 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:11:34pm

Six contacted...one to go...

172 mrfocus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:11:42pm

re: #145 Noam Sayin'

Two tractor-trailer rigs are in the water right next to each other. Go look up Occam's Razor.

So a section of the bridge collapses. Why did the sections behind the piers toward the land collapse on each side?

173 Cygnus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:11:46pm

re: #131 cbinflux

OT, while we watch the news
Russia claims North Pole by submarine flag planting


Russia will fire the starting gun on the world’s last colonial scramble today when a submarine plants a flag under the North Pole to symbolize the Kremlin’s claim to the Arctic and its vast energy resources.

In an unprecedented and potentially perilous mission, veteran Arctic explorer Artur Chilingarov will descend 14,000 feet in a deep sea submersible and drop a Russian tricolor cast in titanium onto the seabed.

In a nation that, in Soviet times, pioneered Arctic exploration, Mr Chilingarov’s expedition has fired the Russian public’s imagination.

But Mr Chilingarov also caused international concern after declaring that the Arctic and the North Pole were Russian.

I think that ole Santa would have something to say about that!

174 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:11:56pm

re: #169 Allah al Fubar

its the MSP international airport about 20 mins from that bridge

175 Charles  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:11:58pm

Homeland Security is on scene.

176 imploder  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:12:03pm

I wouldn't be surprised if the bridge was attacked, considering where it is in the world...

177 FreeIowa  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:12:08pm

I stopped watching this on Fox. I couldn’t take Shep anymore.

178 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:12:12pm

re: #171 Ma Sands

Six contacted...one to go...

Praying here, Ma. It'll be OK.

179 NoSubmission  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:12:18pm

Another tragic reminder to never take life for granted. Anything can happen. I am upset for those involved and their families and the city of Minneapolis.

180 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:12:37pm

A collapse like that is going to make a huge noise explosion or no.
(Ojoe the architect)

181 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:12:39pm

re: #175 Charles

Homeland Security is on scene.


I wonder why?

182 WrathofG-d  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:12:45pm

re: #175 Charles

What?

That is Islamophobia!

183 Stinky Wizzleteats  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:12:49pm

re: #164 goodbye_natalie

Are those locks that I am seeing on TV?

Yeah. They're just upstream. Cedar Bridge is right next to it, where all the people are standing.

184 Clemente  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:12:56pm

With flagrant disregard to the thread's serious topic...

Whoopi Goldberg joins 'The View'

Goldberg replaces Rosie O'Donnell, who ended her controversial -- but ratings-boosting -- tenure in May... (to the immense relief of the non-vision-impaired -ed.)

Vulgarity, the new wit.

185 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:12:57pm

# 164 goodbye_natalie

Are those locks that I am seeing on TV?


There is lock and dam just upstream.

186 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:13:10pm

re: #151 mnkaren

Funny...I felt nothing...I am a mile from the river, and a mile upstream...

187 ornery elephant  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:13:12pm

Checkin in!

Glad to see you here Noam and Chen and Karen...and hi again Ma Sands! You get ahold of the other two kids?

188 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:13:13pm

re: #181 storagemanager

they are saying just to look but no signs of terrorism

189 WrathofG-d  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:13:14pm

I question the timing.

190 Haint  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:13:15pm

re: #159 mnkaren


nope, that bus is on the section in the water

191 me  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:13:16pm

I am awaiting CAIR's response to this.

192 imploder  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:13:54pm

re: #168 storagemanager

We are not at war with Islam...why would this be an attack?...just bad building from Bush...move on...nothing to see here.

Do you honestly believe this structure was built while a Bush was in office?

I seriously doubt it.

193 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:13:55pm

Noam- you know I love you, but I'm going to keep an open mind. I'll say that if I wanted to attack Minneapolis and inflict economic as well as structural damage- I'd go after the bridges. Let's see what comes out here- right now we just don't know.

194 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:13:57pm

re: #177 FreeIowa

I know, he is annoying, and I used to kind of like watching him. I had to turn it over to CNN again.

195 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:14:08pm

re: #181 storagemanager

Because...that bridge is fixed, and checked all the time. No reason for it to fall.

196 Lucius Septimius  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:14:20pm

re: #163 mama winger

As if the collapse wasn't bad enough.

Hey Mama! How have you been? I just got back from Gurnee Monday night. Lovely weather last week, aside from the rain.

197 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:14:23pm

re: #187 ornery elephant
YAY!
Are all Minnesota lizards present and accounted for then?

198 Prowling  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:14:28pm

Whatever the cause, prayers sent to all in that area.

199 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:14:34pm

re: #188 g3n3r1c

re: #181 storagemanager

they are saying just to look but no signs of terrorism


They say that a lot...just saying.

200 commadore183  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:14:41pm

I hate to say this, but I fear we may have multiple fatalities. Just a horrible gut felling. I hope I'm wrong.

201 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:14:42pm

re: #187 ornery elephant

Hey ornery, glad to have you check in. I don't live in the TC area, but just drove through today on 494/35E

202 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:14:59pm

re: #190 Haint

Thanks for the correction

203 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:15:01pm

Remember there are many bridges in our country and the weather is deteriorating them all the time.

204 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:15:06pm

re: #179 NoSubmission

Thank you.

205 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:15:15pm

re: #197 mama winger

{mama winger}

I've missed you. I'm glad you're safe.

206 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:15:24pm

re: #192 imploder

re: #168 storagemanager


We are not at war with Islam...why would this be an attack?...just bad building from Bush...move on...nothing to see here.

Do you honestly believe this structure was built while a Bush was in office?

I seriously doubt it.


sorry...SARQ WAS OFF...NO I DON'T...WAS BEING A SMARTASS.

207 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:15:26pm

# 176 imploder

I wouldn't be surprised if the bridge was attacked, considering where it is in the world...


The nearest mosque is about four blocks away. I could walk over there and ask.

/sarcasm

208 commadore183  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:15:36pm

re: #200 commadore183

I hate to say this, but I fear we may have multiple fatalities. Just a horrible gut felling. I hope I'm wrong.


PIMF feeling

209 ziggyelman  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:15:42pm

Just horrible. One thought I had. IF this was terrorism, would they be able to find out? If someone took out a pillar, all that weight would have fallen on the crime scene, and buried it.

210 GregInSeattle  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:15:47pm

re: #145 Noam Sayin'

I've often thought about Jihadist blowing up one of the main N-S arteries in Seattle, there are only 6 bridge over the waterway that breaks Seattle in 2. Any one of them getting taken out, much less the Interstate, would cripple Seattle.

211 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:15:59pm

re: #196 Lucius Septimius

re: #163 mama winger

As if the collapse wasn't bad enough.

Hey Mama! How have you been? I just got back from Gurnee Monday night. Lovely weather last week, aside from the rain.

Hey Lucius! I just got home from the U.P. and was planning on heading over to Minnesota tomorrow. We'll see how this thing turns out first.

Ain't Gurnee lovely this time of year ?

/ :)

212 Chotii  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:16:10pm

I've been having horrible waking nightmares about...tens of car bombs going off in cities all over the country during gridlock rush hour. Or even backpack or garbage-bag bombs on the sides of freeways. Worse if they also involved major infrastructure like critical bridges and overpasses. Nobody would notice "debris" on the side of the road. And if it was a car bomb...the driver could just get out of the vehicle and walk away, leaving the car to continue blocking cars behind it, then set it off by remote.

I hope this has been "just" a simple, tragic structural collapse, similar to the one where the stadium at the University of Washington collapsed during construction.

213 MilkOfMalfeasance  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:16:17pm

re: #172 mrfocus

re: #145 Noam Sayin'

Two tractor-trailer rigs are in the water right next to each other. Go look up Occam's Razor.

So a section of the bridge collapses. Why did the sections behind the piers toward the land collapse on each side?

I'm not a structural engineer, but most structures need to be complete to be stable. The Mass distribution can pull or push against the different sections. I don't personally think its odd that the sections of the bridge over land collapsed. IMHO

214 GreenDroll  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:16:32pm

The urge to speculate is strong, but tending to the victims is what's important now.
I would be on the lookout for suspicious behavior though...

215 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:16:41pm

re: #172 mrfocus

re: #145 Noam Sayin'

Two tractor-trailer rigs are in the water right next to each other. Go look up Occam's Razor.

So a section of the bridge collapses. Why did the sections behind the piers toward the land collapse on each side?

Chain reaction? What do I look like - a frickin' structural engineer?

216 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:16:57pm

MNDoT reporting the bridge was under maintenance. No structural work.

217 Haint  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:16:58pm

that KARE long shot that was just broadcast is staggering

218 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:17:09pm

re: #197 mama winger

re: #187 ornery elephant
YAY!
Are all Minnesota lizards present and accounted for then?

I originally reported this so I guess I'm okay...

219 Thanos  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:17:10pm

Notice which lanes were closed, shifted traffic to one side more than the other.. weight redistribution ?

Bridge seems to have shifted sideways a bit towards the other bridge and away from the dam as it fell on one side.

The other side tilted back, fell backwards as the tensile spans holding it let go in the middle.

220 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:17:53pm

re: #205 goddessoftheclassroom

Thanks Goddess!

This is a terrible thing to come home too. Minnesota is such a lovely place for vacationing right now. I just know lots of travelers are there .

221 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:18:03pm

They keep worrying about the water but I am as concerned about what happened underneath those girders on the land side.

222 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:18:04pm

re: #149 Stinky Wizzleteats

I question the timing.

Well, if it's true that traffic was stalled on the bridge at the time of the collapse, it would make sense for a structural failure to occur under load.

223 ornery elephant  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:18:31pm

re: #197 mama winger

Mama, not completely sure - I just met another MN lizard the other night but I don't see him here (can't remember the nic completely) but i think all I know of have checked in!

MNKaren, I'm glad you got through town in time!

Local tv now is really trying to dig into HOW this bloody happened!

224 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:18:32pm

re: #197 mama winger

a few have checked in mama, but have we heard from Killian, Jeff McAwesome, Mrs Darkside and Mr Darkside, and thinker?

225 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:18:36pm

I wonder what the f*ing trufers will say about this.

226 GregInSeattle  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:18:38pm

re: #179 NoSubmission

Another tragic reminder to never take life for granted. Anything can happen. I am upset for those involved and their families and the city of Minneapolis.

Amen. I almost got hit by a car the other day while walking through a sidewalk with the "walk" symbol. The idiot came flying through in a left turn...

227 FrogMarch  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:18:42pm

OMG horrible.

228 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:18:46pm

re: #218 The Other Les

I'm very glad you are OK, Les. Especially since you are on the road a lot up there.

229 lrsshadow  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:18:47pm

lizard from MN here and ok. A friend of mine just drove over the bridge ten minutes before it collapsed. I am also a commercial and industrial project manager for construction in the minneapolis area. I will keep you posted about what we find out.

230 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:18:49pm

re: #80 The Other Les

Thank you, The Other Les.

231 mineral  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:18:56pm

Very strange that as of right now, Google news has nothing on this...

232 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:19:00pm

re: #221 goodbye_natalie

Same here.

233 me  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:19:12pm

KARE: "...at this point no reported fatalities"

234 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:19:12pm

re: #213 MilkOfMalfeasance

The deck may have been designed as a continuous span over more than one pair of supports. You get a saving in material when the span is continuous; you can make it lighter. But if the continuity is interrupted anywhere, the other parts of the span may become "simple spans" and as such they might not be strong enough anymore.

235 Allah al Fubar  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:19:13pm

I remember when the Sunshine Skyway collapsed over here in Tampa/St Pete FL. But that was because a frigging BARGE hit it.. hard. Note that the adjacent bridge in MN is functioning perfectly. Reverse rush-hour side is safe; vulnerable side caves completely?

/24 hour rule.

and FoxNews SHEP? STFU... your drama is so nauseating I had to turn off Fox.

236 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:19:19pm

re: #124 mama winger

Steady stream of ambulances pouring in...adequate...slow to get the rescue boats in the water though...

237 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:19:35pm

re: #224 mnkaren

Killian I think was here, not sure.

I haven't seen the others .

238 neverquit  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:19:37pm

This is crazy. Oil, diesel fuel, god only knows if any of the tractor/trailers were carrying any hazmat.

The bridge seems to have given way in it's constructed sections, and the I-beams are mangled...Wow, this is just crazy man.

My guess is something to do with the construction, vibrations, and the way traffic was routed over the bridge, all caused some kind of structural failure.

I seriously doubt any terrorism - just guessing however.

239 Stinky Wizzleteats  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:19:46pm

re: #222 Dar ul Harb

re: #149 Stinky Wizzleteats

I question the timing.

Well, if it's true that traffic was stalled on the bridge at the time of the collapse, it would make sense for a structural failure to occur under load.

Oh, that's what I think, too. Just channeling the Krazy Kos Kids.

240 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:19:52pm

it was built in 1967

241 imploder  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:20:03pm

re: #212 Chotii

I've been having horrible waking nightmares about...tens of car bombs going off in cities all over the country during gridlock rush hour. Or even backpack or garbage-bag bombs on the sides of freeways. Worse if they also involved major infrastructure like critical bridges and overpasses. Nobody would notice "debris" on the side of the road. And if it was a car bomb...the driver could just get out of the vehicle and walk away, leaving the car to continue blocking cars behind it, then set it off by remote.

I hope this has been "just" a simple, tragic structural collapse, similar to the one where the stadium at the University of Washington collapsed during construction.

It is coming...your premonitions are true in my opinion. All of those are ways to strike us and cause havoc for an army of very limited capability...

It's on the way, no doubt about it...

Mark

242 Glackinspeil  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:20:11pm

Homeland Security-"Does not appear to be foul play at this time"

243 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:20:15pm

and about 64 to 65 above the water level

244 ziggyelman  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:20:18pm

Remember how Katrina caused a long stretch of freeway over the water to collapse in the same way?

245 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:20:25pm

Dept. Homeland Security statement..'Does not appear to be terrorism...a lot of construction going on...'

246 therewaslight  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:20:34pm

re: #191 me

I am awaiting CAIR's response to this.

"Didn't we say you were far more likely to die driving to the airport?"

Sorry! I'm caught up in the emotion. Bad taste joke. Terrible events.

For what we know at the moment it is an accident and nothing sinister.

I'm so sorry that it has happened. The first responders are heros.

247 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:20:36pm

re: #203 Ojoe

Remember there are many bridges in our country and the weather is deteriorating them all the time.

I did an extensive study of a certain region's bridges back in the 1990s. Our infrastructure is in horrible shape in many areas.

Now, let's sit back and see how long it takes for the moonbats to blame this on the Bush Administration.

248 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:20:47pm

re: #229 lrsshadow

Oh my goodness. Thank God you are okay up there.

249 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:20:54pm

re: #225 NY Nana

I wonder what the f*ing trufers will say about this.

The bridge is still there.

250 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:20:59pm

In my opinion, this wasn't terrorism, but simply a horrible structural failure of a 30-year old bridge. I've heard they were resurfacing the bridge. Now I'm no structural engineer, but my bachelor's degree was in civil engineering. During the bridge design portion of the class, the biggest issue covered was adding too much material when resurfacing a bridge because of the obvious structural issues this poses. Looks like someone didn't calculate the forces or moments correctly.

May God be with the victims, I know this Lizard is praying for you.

251 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:21:16pm

re: #223 ornery elephant

Thanks ornery, all I know is there was a lot of traffic for a wednesday at 3pm, so I can only imagine the traffic at 6pm, especially on a night that the Twins are apparently having a game tonight

252 Lucius Septimius  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:21:22pm

re: #211 mama winger

Travel safe. Just glad to know you and the other Lizards in that part of the world are ok.

Bridges scare me -- crossing the Ohio at Paducah Sunday gave me the willies. The scariest bridge I've been on was the old 2-lane Mississippi bridge at Prairie du Chien.

The Illinois-Wisconsin borderlands are beautiful this time of year, but I'm trying to sell the wife on the idea that we should go up to Door County some summer. No luck yet.

253 ornery elephant  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:21:27pm

re: #229 lrsshadow

Glad you are okay fellow Minnesota Lizard! thanks for checking in.

254 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:21:39pm

re: #235 Allah al Fubar

I remember when the Sunshine Skyway collapsed over here in Tampa/St Pete FL. But that was because a frigging BARGE hit it.. hard. Note that the adjacent bridge in MN is functioning perfectly. Reverse rush-hour side is safe; vulnerable side caves completely?

/24 hour rule.

and FoxNews SHEP? STFU... your drama is so nauseating I had to turn off Fox.

YES...HE SHOULD BE CRACKING JOKES...ITS NOT A HORROR SHOW.

255 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:21:46pm

re: #225 NY Nana

just cut and paste what they have said about other disasters

256 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:21:49pm

re: #240 g3n3r1c

40 years for mother nature to weaken it. I'm just saying.

Engineering News Record magazine will have a lot to say in the next issue.

I'm outta here.

257 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:21:58pm

re: #193 Sharmuta

Noam- you know I love you, but I'm going to keep an open mind. I'll say that if I wanted to attack Minneapolis and inflict economic as well as structural damage- I'd go after the bridges. Let's see what comes out here- right now we just don't know.

While I admit that's within the realm of possibility, let's not look like a bunch of frickin' chickin littles, here. What's the most likely cause of a bridge's collapse when it is being resurfaced - a compromise of structural integrity or all of a sudden a bunch of jihadis decide to plant explosives on it? This thing is being worked on nearly 24 hours a day. College students are all over the place and nearly every hour of the day. The bridge is traveled every hour of the day. There are people working the lock and dam just north of the bridge 24 hours a day. Metro police and U of M police patrol the roads beneath it all the time. It is highly unlikely that this is terrorism.

258 abu_garcia  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:22:04pm

re: #33 aafflyer

With all the spans that collapsed, I suspect foul play ...

A progressive collapse of a structure like that is inherent in the design. It all stands or it all falls.

259 leap_frog  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:22:16pm

Our hearts and thoughts go out to all affected by this.

Such a huge failure... structurally speaking.

Had an overpass fail on a main bridge artery into Montreal last September, killed 5 or 6, and was a small section that fell (onto the highway below) in comparison to this, interesting that it's construction was the same year as this one, 1968.

260 Thanos  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:22:22pm

Notice that one section, shifted to the side off the pylon...

forty years of freeze/thaw cycles + road salt + weight redistribution = weakened steel ...?

261 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:22:36pm

re: #229 lrsshadow

Thank goodness you are ok. An angel must have been on your shoulder

262 me  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:22:37pm

re: #240 g3n3r1c

it was built in 1967

Somehow I don't think a bridge that's been around for 40yr and has been undergoing "...Regular inspections..." would just suddenly collapse without some...shall we say 'provocation' ?

263 Empire1  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:22:53pm

Gods ... how awful! Kids got off the bus safely -- good! But what a disaster. I've not seen anything this bad short of a major earthquake. At least we're hearing from some of our members there who are safe!

264 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:22:56pm

MNDoT news release on 35W from 7/31.

265 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:22:56pm

No one on the north side of the bridge fell in the river...

266 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:23:06pm

re: #249 The Other Les

Watch...they will manage to make some insane charges. The lives of those involved? They could care less. Their agenda is not 'people friendly'.

'20-30 injuries so far'...

267 NoSubmission  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:23:46pm

re: #226 GregInSeattle

re: #179 NoSubmission

Another tragic reminder to never take life for granted. Anything can happen. I am upset for those involved and their families and the city of Minneapolis.

Amen. I almost got hit by a car the other day while walking through a sidewalk with the "walk" symbol. The idiot came flying through in a left turn...


Wow. We really have to be careful out there. LOOK BOTH WAYS before you cross the street. In an unrelated brush with death, I was nearly decapitated by a semi that tore the roof off our convertible on a highway after skidding on ice one night many years ago.

268 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:23:50pm

re: #250 Jetpilot1101

I'd agree with everything but your 2nd to the last sentence. It has stood for 40 years. I would guess metal fatigue, possibly due to corrosion. Metal plating is not foolproof contrary to popular opinion and neither are inspectors.

269 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:23:52pm

re: #262 me

Maintenance big issue here. It will be investigated like you would not believe.

270 Haint  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:23:55pm

Fox now has close up feed

271 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:24:01pm

re: #237 mama winger

We will have to keep an eye out

272 MilkOfMalfeasance  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:24:12pm

re: #234 Ojoe

re: #213 MilkOfMalfeasance

The deck may have been designed as a continuous span over more than one pair of supports. You get a saving in material when the span is continuous; you can make it lighter. But if the continuity is interrupted anywhere, the other parts of the span may become "simple spans" and as such they might not be strong enough anymore.

I think thats what I was trying to say Ojoe. Thanks for explaining it so it makes sense. I think parts of the Bay Bridge (SF-Oakland) near where I live are constructed that way. G-d speed to the Rescue Personnel.

273 Born Again Republican  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:24:14pm

Thank you for the links to live leads! Very helpful!

274 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:24:16pm

re: #252 Lucius Septimius

Door County is magical this time of year. Even better in the early fall. A little pricey however. Me - I stay in the family cabin up in the U.P. for free. A little rustic, but the price is right :)

I know what you mean about bridges. I won't drive over them. This limits my travel options.

275 Thanos  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:24:54pm

This is really good news so far folks, no deaths reported (hopefully none will be) with a collapse of this scale, it's ... well too soon to call it a miracle.

276 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:25:08pm

re: #244 ziggyelman

Somehow I think the response from the locals will be a bit different than that of the locals in NO after Katrina

277 Sizzlack  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:25:12pm

re: #247 MandyManners

Now, let's sit back and see how long it takes for the moonbats to blame this on the Bush Administration.

took the words out of my mouth...theyll probably say that Bush did this to take people's attention away from his refusal to allow his aides to talk to congress...but of course.

278 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:25:14pm

re: #257 Noam Sayin'

I'm not saying it is or isn't terrorism- but let's not rule it out until there's an answer to this catastrophe.

279 Clemente  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:25:21pm

re: #131 cbinflux

CB -

I noticed that a few days ago, and was struck, a day or two later, by the timing of this piece, as well as its shameless emotional projection and bald hypocrisy:

Gorbachev blames US imperialism for 'growing global disarray'

"The Americans want so much to be the winners. The fact that they are sick with this illness, this winners' complex, is the main reason why everything in the world is so confused and so complicated," he said at a packed news conference.

Instead of ushering in an era of cooperation with the West, the USSR's collapse put the United States into an aggressive, empire-building mood, he said. Ultimately, that has led the United States to commit a string of "major strategic mistakes," he said.

"The idea of a new empire, of sole leadership, was born," Gorbachev said.

280 Carridine  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:25:31pm

re: #235 Allah al Fubar
al Fubar,

"your drama is so nauseating I had to turn off Fox"


that isn't 'drama', its GLURGE
overdramatized, melodramatic, pain-stroking GLURGE

281 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:25:47pm

All I care about are those people...If Smith is loud and drama spews from his mouth...who cares?...People are dead and hurt...PEOPLE...THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.

282 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:25:55pm

re: #222 Dar ul Harb

Way back in the '80's, my Dad did a study on how it was maintained, for his daily newspaper...I participated in the investigation...that bridge was well cared for, upkept, maintained...

283 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:25:56pm

re: #255 mnkaren

Watching this is as much trauma as anyone can take. They can take their crap and shove it...

It looks like a disaster movie. It is still hard to realize that it is happening.

I pray that the thunderstorms do not come in.

284 lrsshadow  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:26:06pm

There has been other bridge collapses in the past of this same type of design. Although they had the steel structure going above the bridge instead of below. In that situation the "pins" at the connections had become bridle and were cracked. The pins failed at the connections and a systemic failure occurred. This maybe what happened in this case.

The bridge could have been sabotaged fairly easily too. A few 6" cuts in the structure with a portable ascedaline torch would have done the same thing.

The work that was being performed also include the removal and re installation of the control joints that were in the bridge. During this process the contractor PCI was saw cutting the concrete on top of the bridge. If they had cut too deep the saw would have cut through the top cord of the steel structure. If this was done in enough locations it could have caused the collapse.

Once the removal process and inspection of the steel structure begins we will know exactly what happened.

285 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:26:09pm

re: #247 MandyManners

It is GWBs fault, he is funneling all the money to the war in Iraq that could have been used to fix the bridges. It is all about the oil
Do I need the sarc tag?
/sarc

286 Highrise  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:26:22pm

I will look forward to hearing the thorough review of what happened. It's a bit early to rule out things..they just got there.

287 me  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:26:22pm

re: #269 Ojoe


Yes it will be investigated. And there is the possibility that undue loading / poor maintenance / smog / sunspots caused the collapse.

Just does not 'look' like the collapse was an accident.

288 NoSubmission  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:26:31pm

re: #277 Sizzlack

re: #247 MandyManners

Now, let's sit back and see how long it takes for the moonbats to blame this on the Bush Administration.

took the words out of my mouth...theyll probably say that Bush did this to take people's attention away from his refusal to allow his aides to talk to congress...but of course.


Times like this we need to turn our heads from the ugliness of the opportunist vultures on the fringes and focus on praying that everyone comes out of this.

289 mlong  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:26:33pm

Should we start a betting pool on how soon someone finds a way to blame Bush for this?

290 The flying Kiwi  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:26:33pm

I am sitting at my 'puter at 12.30 lunch time in NZ watching a live feed of this disaster. I am marvelling that it would appear fatalities seem to be minimal. Sadly, there are many casualties. My thoughts and prayers are for those involved and those families affected.

What also makes me angry is that in Gaza and some other mid east places there will be gunfire and candy being handed out as news of this misfortune reaches those places.

291 Tosprops  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:27:03pm

re: #231 mineral

Very strange that as of right now, Google news has nothing on this...

Google sucks. I prefer Yahoo.

This bridge collapse will be a test of the improvements rescue workers have made since 9-11. Hopefully, it looks worse than it really is.

Reports are that traffic was standing still on the bridge. That could make a collapse more likely. Someone on FOX just said that some people report that they did hear explosions before the collapse.

292 Murray  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:27:18pm

That is/was probably the slickest bridge deck in town during the winter, long term exposure to deicing chemicals may have contributed to the collapse. Time will tell...

293 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:27:18pm

Hospitals are all code red...all prepared...receiving like mad...

294 abu_garcia  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:27:24pm

Here are pictures of the bridge posted on the previous thread by mrfocus.

[Link: www.johnweeks.com...]

If you look at the supports at the top of the piers you can see that they will not resist any moments, i.e. they will not support any unbalanced loads.

295 ornery elephant  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:27:29pm

re: #257 Noam Sayin'

I agree Noam.

One eyewitness said that the bridge first started shaking like a jack hammer and then it went down...nothing about an explosion. But now, a new eyewitness said she heard explosions and things going UP in the air before it fell.

296 GregInSeattle  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:27:31pm

re: #240 g3n3r1c

I'm 40 now too. I guess things just start going seriously south when you hit 40! :)

297 Bobblehead  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:27:34pm

mama...
Welcome back. How was the vacation?

298 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:28:06pm

re: #252 Lucius Septimius

re: #211 mama winger
Bridges scare me -- crossing the Ohio at Paducah Sunday gave me the willies. The scariest bridge I've been on was the old 2-lane Mississippi bridge at Prairie du Chien.


Mackinac Strre: #257 Noam Sayin'

re: #193 Sharmuta

Noam- you know I love you, but I'm going to keep an open mind. I'll say that if I wanted to attack Minneapolis and inflict economic as well as structural damage- I'd go after the bridges. Let's see what comes out here- right now we just don't know.

While I admit that's within the realm of possibility, let's not look like a bunch of frickin' chickin littles, here. What's the most likely cause of a bridge's collapse when it is being resurfaced - a compromise of structural integrity or all of a sudden a bunch of jihadis decide to plant explosives on it? This thing is being worked on nearly 24 hours a day. College students are all over the place and nearly every hour of the day. The bridge is traveled every hour of the day. There are people working the lock and dam just north of the bridge 24 hours a day. Metro police and U of M police patrol the roads beneath it all the time. It is highly unlikely that this is terrorism.


If there's going to be an attack here its going to be a martyr-detonated Iranian nuke in downtown St. Paul on the last night of the Republican National Convention next year.

I plan on being out of town that week.

299 Stinky Wizzleteats  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:28:08pm

re: #274 mama winger

re: #252 Lucius Septimius

Door County is magical this time of year. Even better in the early fall. A little pricey however. Me - I stay in the family cabin up in the U.P. for free. A little rustic, but the price is right :)

I know what you mean about bridges. I won't drive over them. This limits my travel options.

I go deer hunting on family land in Northern WI, by Merrill. I go through the Twin Cities (coming from KC) on my way north. I've probably been over every bridge over the Mississippi/St. Croix between the Iowa line and the Twin Cities. Some of those are freaky.

300 Carridine  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:28:09pm

re: #288 NoSubmission

Now, let's sit back and see how long it takes for the moonbats to blame this on the Bush Administration.

What IS the take on this by the KosKidz?

301 me  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:28:12pm

re: #291 Tosprops

I found out up-to-date info on this on WIkipedia before Google had any links to any news. Strange indeed.

302 buzzdroid  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:28:21pm

fox is reporting explosions hapened before the bridge collapsed.

303 Tosprops  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:28:21pm

re: #277 Sizzlack

re: #247 MandyManners

Now, let's sit back and see how long it takes for the moonbats to blame this on the Bush Administration.

took the words out of my mouth...theyll probably say that Bush did this to take people's attention away from his refusal to allow his aides to talk to congress...but of course.


Already asked in post #86. Those people have no shame.

304 Mike C.  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:28:23pm

Nice to see the great majority here have their heads screwed on straight. And sad to see that a number of the usual suspects are bloviating out their asses. Again.

305 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:28:27pm

re: #282 Ma Sands

I would think it was too important a bridge for it to not get the inspections and repairs it needed. I'd love to know the last time it was inspected.

306 MilkOfMalfeasance  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:28:39pm

Fox is talking about "Explosions." I guess they don't realize that that much mass under pressure can, in a way, explode as it comes apart. I think they are fishing for something.

307 samhein  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:28:42pm

Well, there was just an on scene report from Fox, and the they said a woman who got out of her car said she saw things blowing up and out before the bridge collapsed.

So, I don't know.

308 ziggyelman  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:28:59pm

A local anchor was mentioning how explosions were heard, and what could have caused that sound...but, concrete pillars bursting would sound pretty nasty it would seem...

309 ornery elephant  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:29:13pm

re: #275 Thanos

This is really good news so far folks, no deaths reported (hopefully none will be) with a collapse of this scale, it's ... well too soon to call it a miracle.

We're hopeful Thanos! Besides, Minnesotans (not Keith Ellison) are hardy, it's the land of the Lizard Vikings!

But we will take all the prayers we can get at this time.

310 Jimash  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:29:14pm

Prayers for all.

311 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:29:16pm

re: #297 Bobblehead

mama...
Welcome back. How was the vacation?

Very nice and relaxing. Technically, I'm still on it. Just making a stopover on my way to Minnesota for more fishing.

thanks for the welcome !

:)

312 mrfocus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:29:24pm

re: #213 MilkOfMalfeasance

re: #172 mrfocus

re: #145 Noam Sayin'

Two tractor-trailer rigs are in the water right next to each other. Go look up Occam's Razor.

So a section of the bridge collapses. Why did the sections behind the piers toward the land collapse on each side?

I'm not a structural engineer, but most structures need to be complete to be stable. The Mass distribution can pull or push against the different sections. I don't personally think its odd that the sections of the bridge over land collapsed. IMHO

Look at the piers on the top photo. They've kicked out what caused that?
Why is the roadway behind the piers bent like it is? The bridge failure is pretty massive. I won't rule out terrorism.

313 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:29:25pm

Why attack the reporter?...he is shocked as are we...I don't get it.

314 Lucius Septimius  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:29:31pm

re: #285 mnkaren

re: #247 MandyManners

Do I need the sarc tag?
/sarc

Sadly, yes. Glad to know you're ok.

315 SDC  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:29:51pm

re: #247 MandyManners

I'm certain the troofers will be all over this ("the first time in history that concrete has collapsed like this, and it happened under Bushitler"); if they can blame him for a hurricane, they can blame him for a 40-year-old bridge falling down.

316 NoSubmission  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:29:53pm

re: #300 Carridine

re: #288 NoSubmission

Now, let's sit back and see how long it takes for the moonbats to blame this on the Bush Administration.

What IS the take on this by the KosKidz?


Carridine. That wasn't my comment. Mine is the opposite. Just to be clear.
Times like this we need to turn our heads from the ugliness of the opportunist vultures on the fringes and focus on praying that everyone comes out of this.

317 easy  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:29:59pm

re: #86 Tosprops

How long will it take for the moonbats to blame Bush?


It's probably insensitive to bring up politics in the midst of a tragedy but you can be assure they will. Stories about how the war in Iraq are taking monies away from infrastructure etc, etc.

318 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:30:15pm

re: #304 Mike C.

Nice to see the great majority here have their heads screwed on straight. And sad to see that a number of the usual suspects are bloviating out their asses. Again.

People may be dead...blow it out your ass.

319 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:30:16pm

re: #282 Ma Sands

Way back in the '80's, my Dad did a study on how it was maintained, for his daily newspaper...I participated in the investigation...that bridge was well cared for, upkept, maintained...

Hopefully no one is seriously hurt and the engineers will have an opportunity to learn from whatever happened here.

Unfortunately, "failure is always an option."

320 ornery elephant  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:30:18pm

Minnesota Dept of Transportation just announced that they HAVE NO CLUE how this could have happened.

:gulp:

321 MrC_5150  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:30:20pm

"and FoxNews SHEP? STFU... your drama is so nauseating I had to turn off Fox."

Michael Savage gave Shep 2 seconds. Literally.

322 Allah al Fubar  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:30:26pm

Moslem Somali cab drivers. Minneapolis-St Paul Airport. Jihadi's failed in efforts to enforce Shariah at the airport. Footbaths under consideration. Cabbies fined/banned. Local Jihadis threatened retaliation against Government for failing to accommodate their precious 'islamic' needs at the Minneapolis/St Paul Airport.

Local bridge "suddenly" collapses less than 3 weeks later. During rush hour.

Yes, the 24-48 hour rule applies. The Brooklyn Bridge is well over 30 years old, and remains fully functional. Let's just see how this plays out.

If it is the result of the

'inner struggle'

then we'll be sure to be delivered another pacifier and a lullaby.

Praying for victims and survivors. And, praying for the Truth.

323 Thanos  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:30:57pm

This looks like failure from overloading one side of a tensile structure while something it needed was compromised by construction. Again, check that one section that is to the side, the rest fell straight down.

324 Bobblehead  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:31:05pm

re: #311 mama winger

Well, catch a few for us!

325 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:31:22pm

Looking at the "red car," my belief in grace and angels is reaffirmed. The driver, a new mom, walked away.

326 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:31:26pm

re: #299 Stinky Wizzleteats

It's got to be hard getting any deer with that Stinky residue of weaselteats about you :)

Nice hunting up that way.

327 neverquit  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:31:32pm

here's what it looked like before -

[Link: www.visi.com...]

[Link: www.visi.com...]

[Link: www.visi.com...]

Structure ID: NBI: 9340.
%u2022 Location: River Mile 853.20.
%u2022 River Elevation: 725 Feet.
%u2022 Highway: I-35W.
%u2022 Daily Traffic Count: 140,000 (2002).
%u2022 Bridge Type: Steel Arch Deck Truss Bridge.
%u2022 Length: 1,907 Feet, 458 Foot Longest Span.
%u2022 Width: 8 Traffic Lanes, 108 Feet.
%u2022 Navigation Channel Width: 390 Feet.
%u2022 Height Above Water: 64 Feet.
%u2022 Date Built: Opened November 1967.
Claim to fame: was built with a single 458 foot long steel arch to avoid putting any piers in the water to impede river navigation.

This bridge features an anti-ice system. A series of PVC pipes carries a deicer fluid to outlets that are drilled into the deck of the bridge. When the temperature for ice is right, the deicer fluid is pumped onto the bridge deck. This system has proven to be successful enough that it is being installed on other bridges in Minnesota.

328 GeeWiz  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:31:48pm

re: #250 Jetpilot1101

I was thinking along those same lines about adding additional surface material to a structure that may not be in within it's structural design. I'm not an engineer but that thought always crossed my mind when I witnessed it locally, especially when I was stuck in traffic on a bridge and the other vehicles passing by caused the ground beneath me to vibrate. It kinda gives one pause and hope that they know better than me. This incident will give me a greater pause next time.

329 mrfocus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:31:57pm

re: #250 Jetpilot1101

In my opinion, this wasn't terrorism, but simply a horrible structural failure of a 30-year old bridge. I've heard they were resurfacing the bridge. Now I'm no structural engineer, but my bachelor's degree was in civil engineering. During the bridge design portion of the class, the biggest issue covered was adding too much material when resurfacing a bridge because of the obvious structural issues this poses. Looks like someone didn't calculate the forces or moments correctly.

May God be with the victims, I know this Lizard is praying for you.

What no "factor of safety"?

330 ParanoidPyro  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:32:01pm

I'm amazed but glad that the part of the bridge in the middle of the river is still above water. Thankfully those people can be saved still.

God be with all involved

331 eon  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:32:09pm

re: #219 Thanos

Notice which lanes were closed, shifted traffic to one side more than the other.. weight redistribution ?

Bridge seems to have shifted sideways a bit towards the other bridge and away from the dam as it fell on one side.

The other side tilted back, fell backwards as the tensile spans holding it let go in the middle.

Hello, Lizards.

Oh my God.

I'm listening to streaming on FoxNews.com off IE6 as I post via Firefox.

From what they're saying, and Thanos' description, this reminds me of nothing so much as the Silver Bridge collapse on the Ohio River between Kanauga, OH, and Point Pleasant, WV, on 15 December, 1967 . Old bridge (built 1927), 1,756 ft. long, suspension type (eyebar twin pier, in that case, not arch no-pier as here), that had shown signs of instability prior to collapse. It also went down with a large number of cars on board. 36 bodies were recovered, but the exact number of casualties was never determined, AFAIK.

Traffic was apparently gridlocked when this one went down, just like Silver. They're now talking about explosions. My guess is, what people thought were explosions was really the sounds of the concrete pier fracturing. Add in a number of construction/repair vehicles that were on the bridge, with propane tanks, acetylene tanks, etc., and there probably were a series of very loud "cracks" as things ruptured when hit by shrapnelling concrete.

I'm calling it an accidental collapse.

That makes it no less of a tragedy.


Our prayers must be with those in danger, and the brave men and women going to their aid.

eon

332 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:32:11pm

Crushed a train and some trucks underneath as the end fell...

333 Temujin  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:32:37pm

Let's hold the speculation down to a dull roar.

There will be ample time down the road for all the facts about this tragedy to be discovered and aired.

334 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:32:43pm

re: #314 Lucius Septimius

Thank you Lucius, thank goodness I don't live up there and have to drive up there much.

335 Prowling  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:32:47pm

I do wonder if ellison and his followers are praising allah for this tragedy.

336 Highrise  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:32:51pm

re: #278 Sharmuta

re: #257 Noam Sayin'

I'm not saying it is or isn't terrorism- but let's not rule it out until there's an answer to this catastrophe.

I tend to agree with your take on this, Sharmuta. As a previous first responder in the fire dept. and someone who was an auditor in one of my jobs in engineering, I've learned you rule out NOTHING...until you look at it all. They just got there, nothing can be ruled out...everything is in until it's out.

I think I saw it printed here or somewhere else, wish I had kept the post, but it was a quote from some crime investigator that said something along the lines of..EVERYONE is a suspect except me until I rule them out.

337 buzzdroid  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:33:05pm

sky news : no reason to think that its terror related... but explosions reported...

338 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:33:15pm
339 Thanos  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:33:37pm

re: #326 mama winger

re: #299 Stinky Wizzleteats

It's got to be hard getting any deer with that Stinky residue of weaselteats about you :)

Nice hunting up that way.

Salt licks work... but I did not say that!

340 WrathofG-d  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:33:38pm

This and the numerous accidents involving bridges PROVES that bridges should be outlawed. Bridges kill people!

341 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:33:45pm

Petty little people...who have no shame...people are hurt..some dead...you have no soul...you know who you are.

342 Kirly  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:33:46pm

re: #187 ornery elephant

glad to see you check in OE!

343 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:34:04pm

re: #325 goddessoftheclassroom

It is amazing how some of those cars are holding on at such steep angles

344 Carridine  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:34:04pm

re: #316 NoSubmission

Times like this we need to turn our heads from the ugliness of the opportunist vultures on the fringes and focus on praying that everyone comes out of this.


Yes, Ma'am! I'll second that!
/and keep a level head WHILE DOING what we can as fast as we can! I've been a first-responder at several accidents... the ONLY one taking rational action among hurt and rubber-neckers

345 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:34:05pm

re: #302 buzzdroid

fox is reporting explosions hapened before the bridge collapsed.

Oh, that's helpful.

Anyone at the scene that would actually be able to distinguish the sound of failing concrete and metal from an "explosion"?

346 FreeIowa  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:34:08pm

I have to cross the Mississippi twice a day on our hwy 30 bridge here. They have been working on it all summer leaving only one lane open. You don’t realize how much bridges move until you’re stopped in the middle as the opposite traffic is funneled through. Those big semis can really get my little car bouncing, and it’s a long way down to the water.

347 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:34:10pm

Eyewitness on local Foxnews reports hearing a loud bang, like that of "a dumptruck going over a bump" and looked up to see the bridge going down.

I can't reach my friend - but I'm sure it's just cell phone traffic.

348 Stinky Wizzleteats  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:34:18pm

re: #326 mama winger

re: #299 Stinky Wizzleteats

It's got to be hard getting any deer with that Stinky residue of weaselteats about you :)

Nice hunting up that way.

LOL!

349 Charles  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:34:20pm

It is extremely unlikely to be terrorism, in my opinion.

Planting enough explosives to cause something like this would have been noticed.

350 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:34:22pm

the kids in the bus were between the ages of 9 and 11

351 buzzdroid  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:34:30pm

i feel a 24 hour rule kicking in... lets stand back, let it flow, and let 24 hours happen before we make a judgement.

352 windybon  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:34:33pm

re: #197 mama winger

mama winger, so glad you're back. Hope you had a great vacation. You were greatly missed. It's just not the same around her without you.

353 Dublin(CA)Dude  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:35:08pm

Fox News reporting "dozens" of cars in the water.

354 Jeff_McAwesome  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:35:27pm

re: #347 Noam Sayin'

What does one expect to hear when 500,000 lbs of steel and concrete collapse into a river?

355 SDC  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:35:32pm

That schoolbus caught some luck; any faster or further ahead, and it would have went off the end.

356 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:35:49pm

Showing major ignorance here, is the MS large enough that far up to have barges. What are they using the locks for?

357 ornery elephant  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:35:53pm

re: #342 Kirly

I'm okay Kirly ! : )

They have an eyewitness on local tv...her car got sandwiched, she said the first thing she noticed was the construction workers on the bridge were all "up in the air" , like suspended or floating, then it all crashed!

358 Charles  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:35:54pm

re: #340 WrathofG-d

This and the numerous accidents involving bridges PROVES that bridges should be outlawed. Bridges kill people!

Hey, Wrath. I see your wisecracks. No need to put them in bold. And I would greatly appreciate it if you KNOCK IT OFF.

359 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:35:59pm

re: #338 buzzsawmonkey

maybe illegal Norwegian immigrants

360 Jeff_McAwesome  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:36:07pm

re: #353 Dublin(CA)Dude

I heard over 100. Not good.

361 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:36:16pm

re: #318 storagemanager

They reported one..but there will be more, tragically.

Interviewing witnessess...

362 NoSubmission  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:36:19pm

People say 'explosion' but perhaps their words in a time like this are not precise. I have no idea what caused this, we need to wait it out.

363 Stinky Wizzleteats  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:36:29pm

re: #339 Thanos

re: #326 mama winger

re: #299 Stinky Wizzleteats

It's got to be hard getting any deer with that Stinky residue of weaselteats about you :)

Nice hunting up that way.

Salt licks work... but I did not say that!

Corn is legal ;)

eon, Point Pleasant, WV was my first thought, too. Looks just like The Mothman Prophecies.

364 Tosprops  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:36:31pm

re: #347 Noam Sayin'

Eyewitness on local Foxnews reports hearing a loud bang, like that of "a dumptruck going over a bump" and looked up to see the bridge going down.

I can't reach my friend - but I'm sure it's just cell phone traffic.


Try text messaging. That will work when voice will not.

365 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:36:42pm

re: #356 goodbye_natalie

barges go all the way up to minneapolis

366 buzzdroid  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:36:46pm

#345 -> i was just reporting what i am seeing on TV.. its not my opinion...

i think the 24 hour rule should kick in NOW... i will no longer comment on this over and out.

367 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:36:47pm

re: #349 Charles

It is extremely unlikely to be terrorism, in my opinion.

Planting enough explosives to cause something like this would have been noticed.


Charles...the point is...just the idea...is enough to make some froth at the mouth...I don't get it.

368 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:36:56pm

re: #352 windybon

What a nice thing to say! Thank you :)

I missed you guys. I missed LGF. I was in the Hiawatha National Forest with no other news source than one CBS channel. I got absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing, from them of any substance.

Oh well, it was relaxing at any rate.

369 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:36:56pm

re: #340 WrathofG-d

This and the numerous accidents involving bridges PROVES that bridges should be outlawed. Bridges kill people!

And it fell into a stream of Dihydrogen Monoxide!

Ban Dihydrogen Monoxide!

370 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:36:58pm

re: #355 SDC

As me and my kids used to chant, as, when they were little, we would drive through the little town of Luck, MN -- "there is no such thing as luck"... :)

371 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:37:15pm

re: #349 Charles

Totally agree Charles as it is a heavily travelled area at all times of the day

372 WrathofG-d  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:37:23pm

re: #358 Charles

As you wish...

(but its beginning to look like I'm receiving special treatment around here.)

Sorry if I offended anyone!

373 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:37:25pm

re: #343 mnkaren

It is amazing how some of those cars are holding on at such steep angles

Good tires?

374 bosforus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:37:31pm

re: #329 mrfocus

my education is the same as jetpilot. "factor of safety" can only be determined at the design stage. after years of use/ construction/ weathering it's nearly impossible to recalculate it.

375 Dublin(CA)Dude  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:37:38pm

#360 Jeff

Yes, unfortunately, I suspect the toal is going to be very high.

376 Mike C.  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:38:13pm

re: #318 storagemanager


Yes, they may. A terrible tragedy. So stop trying to turn it to your advantage when you know eff-all about the cause.

Asshole.

377 Dave the.....  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:38:14pm

Dave from St Paul was not in the area but is watching the local news.

Wow, 365 posts on this?

378 eon  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:38:15pm

Re my #331

I said "concrete pier". I meant "concrete deck."

Ok, I'm still trying to focus.

eon

379 Thanos  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:38:16pm

re: #364 Tosprops

re: #347 Noam Sayin'


Eyewitness on local Foxnews reports hearing a loud bang, like that of "a dumptruck going over a bump" and looked up to see the bridge going down.

I can't reach my friend - but I'm sure it's just cell phone traffic.


Try text messaging. That will work when voice will not.

If you have push to talk that uses a different band also

380 MilkOfMalfeasance  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:38:18pm

FYI-

Anyone having Trouble reaching their contacts in the Area are going to have trouble. I have family up there and they just finally got through to tell us that they are ok, however, The Cell/Land Phone Systems are totally jammed.

381 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:38:19pm

Hospitals are calling for all off duty staff to report for duty immediately...

382 Allah al Fubar  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:38:23pm

re: #254 storagemanager

re: #235 Allah al Fubar


I remember when the Sunshine Skyway collapsed over here in Tampa/St Pete FL. But that was because a frigging BARGE hit it.. hard. Note that the adjacent bridge in MN is functioning perfectly. Reverse rush-hour side is safe; vulnerable side caves completely?

/24 hour rule.

and FoxNews SHEP? STFU... your drama is so nauseating I had to turn off Fox.


YES...HE SHOULD BE CRACKING JOKES...ITS NOT A HORROR SHOW.

Cut the shit, Storage.

383 Dublin(CA)Dude  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:38:40pm

pimf

toll, not toal, doh.

384 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:38:54pm

re: #341 storagemanager

Bet they don't.

385 abu_garcia  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:38:55pm

re: #349 Charles

It is extremely unlikely to be terrorism, in my opinion.

Planting enough explosives to cause something like this would have been noticed.

With this design it could actually be done easier with homemade thermite, and it wouldn't take much, but I don't see any reason to suspect terrorism either.

386 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:39:05pm

re: #377 Dave the...

Why not? Lizards live here... :)

387 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:39:10pm

to make things worse t-stroms are moving in

388 NoSubmission  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:39:12pm

The guy who said his truck was 'cut in half' was very lucky to live to tell about it.

389 FQ Kafir  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:39:15pm

re: #358 Charles

The Wrath Of Ch__les.

390 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:39:30pm

re: #365 g3n3r1c

I assumed that was a dam and not a locke. Maybe it was bumped by a barge.

391 Charles  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:39:30pm

If people start squabbling I'm going to block accounts.

392 Cygnus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:39:33pm

re: #210 GregInSeattle

re: #145 Noam Sayin'

I've often thought about Jihadist blowing up one of the main N-S arteries in Seattle, there are only 6 bridge over the waterway that breaks Seattle in 2. Any one of them getting taken out, much less the Interstate, would cripple Seattle.

With all the construction on I-5 later this month, there won't be much difference. Thank God I live and work in Everett.

393 Willfully Right  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:39:37pm

My heart goes out to everyone involved in this tragedy. Prayers for the families of the victims and for the brave rescuers. We will watch as another disaster brings out the best in most Americans. Bless them.

394 BulgarWheat  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:40:03pm

Good heavens! I leave for a little while to take the son to soccer and come back to find this.

I've got one of my guys working up there right now. I need to make a phone call.

395 ornery elephant  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:40:08pm

oh great. and now there are thunderstorms headed into the area.

396 The Shadow Do  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:40:16pm

re: #331 eon

They're now talking about explosions. My guess is, what people thought were explosions was really the sounds of the concrete pier fracturing.

Yes, giant release of energy here - gonna be some noise.

397 marwan's daughter  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:40:26pm

Glad to see that the Minneapolis lizards are okay.

398 Dave the.....  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:40:26pm
It is extremely unlikely to be terrorism, in my opinion.

Planting enough explosives to cause something like this would have been noticed.

Agree. The whole bridge is very visiable (sky-rise condo's all over the place) and the rush hour ends early here as it is right downtown. Bridge went about 6:15. An hour earlier would have had stop-and-go traffic in all 6 lanes.

399 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:40:29pm

Yitgaddal v'yitqaddash sh'meh rabba
B'%u02BBal'ma di v'ra%u02BC khiruteh v'yamlikh malkhuteh
v'yatzmach purqaneh viqarev m'shicheh
b'chayekhon uvyomekhon
uvchaye d'khol bet yisra%u02BCel
b'%u02BBagala uvizman qariv v'%u02BCimru amen

y'he sh'meh rabba m'varakh
l'%u02BBalam ul%u02BBal'me %u02BBal'maya
Yitbarakh v'yishtabbach v'yitpa%u02BCar v'yitromam
v'yitnasse v'yithaddar v'yit%u02BBalle v'yithallal
sh'meh d'qudsha, b'rikh hu.
l'%u02BBella ul%u02BBella mikkol min kol birkhata
v'shirata tushb'chata v'nechemata
da%u02BCamiran b'al'ma v'%u02BCimru amen

Titqabbel tz'lot'hon uva%u02BBut'hon
d'khol bet yisra%u02BCel
qodam avuhon di bishmayya, v'%u02BCimru amen

400 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:40:35pm

re: #376 Mike C.

re: #318 storagemanager


Yes, they may. A terrible tragedy. So stop trying to turn it to your advantage when you know eff-all about the cause.

Asshole.


That comment shows you are heartless...and clueless...I pity you.

401 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:40:39pm

re: #386 Ma Sands

lots of lizards

402 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:40:40pm

Can you imagine the families trying to get through to their loved ones right now? Especially daily commuters on that route?

403 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:40:48pm
404 Charles  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:40:50pm

No appeal, by the way. This is not the time.

405 tunnelrat  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:40:52pm

I work in downtown Minneapolis and would normally drive over that bridge twice a day. Have been driving a different route lately due to the
construction which was going on there. May God watch over everyone who is effected by this tragedy.

406 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:40:59pm

Jeff McAwesome, glad you checked in. Still need to hear from Killian but I doubt he'd have reason to be in that area at that time.

407 rappmandu  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:41:00pm

little green footballs is with you, Minneapolis.

408 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:41:03pm

re: #391 Charles

Thank you.

409 grumpy old codger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:41:08pm

re: #162 Ma Sands

Hope all the Wingerettes are safe,

410 Fernandez  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:41:14pm

Reminds me of the Nimitz collapse in the '89 San Francisco Earthquake.

411 Haint  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:41:23pm

Fox reported that construction workers had made a "hole" in the bridge that was being guarded by a policeman.
perhaps the construction work was more extensive than simple repaving

412 Prowling  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:41:37pm

#349 Charles
I doubt it, too, but I'll bet ellison and his followers in the 5th district are celebrating in their dark hearts.

413 Jewels (AKA Julian)  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:41:38pm

Damnation...

The English Mouners Kaddish

Glorified and sanctified be God's great name throughout the world which He has created according to His will. May He establish His kingdom in your lifetime and during your days, and within the life of the entire House of Israel, speedily and soon; and say, Amen.

May His great name be blessed forever and to all eternity.

Blessed and praised, glorified and exalted, extolled and honored, adored and lauded be the name of the Holy One, blessed be He, beyond all the blessings and hymns, praises and consolations that are ever spoken in the world; and say, Amen.

May there be abundant peace from heaven, and life, for us
and for all Israel; and say, Amen.

He who creates peace in His celestial heights, may He create peace for us and for all Israel; and say, Amen.

414 thomsonator  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:41:41pm
And Homeland Security is on the scene, which is undoubtedly routine. At the moment, there is no sign of sabotage or terrorism; no one has reported any explosions, and it seems to be a massive structural failure.


I hope this is the case, but this is the strangest looking "total catastrophic failure" I've ever seen.

A few minutes ago, Fox local affiliate reported an interview with a car crash victim on scene who said she saw explosions "shooting up into the air"...before the collapse. Hmmm. It's going to be interesting as more info comes in.. I don't see how a possible accidental chemical explosion at the construction site could create a collapse in 3 sections.

415 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:41:50pm

I have tried Charles...sorry if I am one.

416 mrfocus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:42:13pm

re: #349 Charles

It is extremely unlikely to be terrorism, in my opinion.

Planting enough explosives to cause something like this would have been noticed.

Not really if you've got advance degree in Civil Engineering. Some friends who know how to explode plastic explosives with a cell phone. Take a look from the underside of the bridge:
[Link: www.johnweeks.com...]

417 bosforus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:42:22pm

and before the subject comes up, and if I am correct. the legal definition of the word 'negligence' (at least as far as i learned for civil engineers) is something like: if the decisions made leading to the incident were acceptable decisions within the industry then negligence cannot be claimed
in other words, anyone reasonable within the industry would've done the same thing

418 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:42:24pm

re: #412 Prowling

thats just horrible to say

419 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:42:28pm

re: #387 g3n3r1c

Yeah! I THOUGHT I just heard thunder!

420 Dublin(CA)Dude  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:42:32pm

Reminds me so much of the '89 SF quake, the collapse of the double decker highway 880 roadway.

421 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:42:40pm

re: #413 Jewels (AKA Julian)

Thank you Jewels. I was going to ask for a translation.

422 me  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:42:42pm

re: #349 Charles

It is extremely unlikely to be terrorism, in my opinion.

Planting enough explosives to cause something like this would have been noticed.

I humbly disagree.

When you look at the pic of the supporting structure, as provided by the link above - you can imagine that it would not take a whole lot of damage to the underlying structure to cause a chain-reaction collapse.

There is no way to know what caused the collapse, but I would not call terrorism "extremely unlikely". Not yet.

423 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:42:42pm
424 NoSubmission  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:43:01pm

There will be miracles. Let's keep hope.

425 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:43:01pm

re: #390 Killgore Trout

The lock and dam system allows barge traffic to go up to six miles above the St. Antony Falls.

426 ziggyelman  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:43:05pm

Man, it even landed on a train, yet the folks on Fox don't recognize a train when they see one.

427 Bobblehead  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:43:12pm

re: #368 mama winger

re: #352 windybon

What a nice thing to say! Thank you :)

I missed you guys. I missed LGF. I was in the Hiawatha National Forest with no other news source than one CBS channel. I got absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing, from them of any substance.

Oh well, it was relaxing at any rate.

I remember Rush advising people to take a break from the news every once in a while. Sometimes no news is good news as far as your mental health is concerned.
Hope the rest of your vacation is as restful as the first part.

428 Jeff_McAwesome  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:43:13pm

re: #406 Noam Sayin'

I'm not even in MN right now. I just heard about this on the radio and thought I would see what was going on.

429 ornery elephant  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:43:31pm

re: #405 tunnelrat

I work in downtown Minneapolis and would normally drive over that bridge twice a day. Have been driving a different route lately due to the
construction which was going on there. May God watch over everyone who is effected by this tragedy.

Glad you are safe tunnelrat!

430 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:43:49pm

Text message - Thanks Tosprops.

Didn't think of that.

431 Tosprops  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:43:49pm

Fox just showed pictures of a train cruched by the bridge. How many times have you seen anything crush a train!?!

Please remember the victims in your prayers. It is a blessing that so many here are reporting success in contacting loved ones and friends from the area, but remember the people that are trying to get in contact with a loved one and will not be able to do so. :(

432 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:43:55pm

2006 report claims stress fractures in the steel...

433 Ginn  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:43:57pm

Perhaps the construction had nothing to do with the collapse but kept more people from being on the bridge when it did.

434 neverquit  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:44:05pm

re: #391 Charles

If people start squabbling I'm going to block accounts.

No doubt, this is not the time or the place for stupid jokes. No doubt people are suffering and others are laying their lives on the line to limit suffering.

Take this opportunity to represent the LGF Community seriously, sincerely and with sympathy for those suffering now.

jmho...

435 me  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:44:09pm

re: #416 mrfocus

re: #349 Charles


It is extremely unlikely to be terrorism, in my opinion.

Planting enough explosives to cause something like this would have been noticed.


Not really if you've got advance degree in Civil Engineering. Some friends who know how to explode plastic explosives with a cell phone. Take a look from the underside of the bridge:
[Link: www.johnweeks.com...]

Yes, I 2nd that.

436 Lucius Septimius  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:44:13pm

re: #410 Fernandez

Reminds me of the Nimitz collapse in the '89 San Francisco Earthquake.

I remember that well -- my uncle and nephew were on that road when it collapsed -- they were only a few miles from there when it happened.

All we can do is pray.

437 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:44:15pm

Good night..stay safe..

438 Jimash  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:44:27pm

It's pretty awful. I can't imagine falling 64 feet in the car and don't want to .

439 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:44:31pm

re: #391 Charles

Charles...love ya --us Minnesotans are tough-hearted...have to be...meaning, those not here can't really feel the shock and awe...we can settle 'em...now or later... :) It's okay...

440 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:44:32pm

Heavy rain coming in in about a half hour.

441 MilkOfMalfeasance  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:44:33pm

Lizards, go donate blood if you can.

442 commadore183  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:44:43pm

If the storms arrive there, would the rescue workers have to stop to take shelter, or would they continue working? I just hope the storms take a last minute turn and avoid that area.

443 wong fei hung  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:44:48pm

PHEW - you're ok... thank goodness!

444 spikester  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:45:14pm

when root cause is complete I'll bet it's a contractor trying to save $$$

445 Cygnus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:45:15pm

re: #247 MandyManners

Blame Global Warming!

446 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:45:26pm

homeland security says it sees nothing about terrorism here

447 bosforus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:45:58pm

3 confirmed dead, CNN
i heard that a section of the bridge collapsed onto a road below it, crushing at least 1 car.

448 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:46:09pm

re: #428 Jeff_McAwesome

glad to hear you are well

449 Allah al Fubar  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:46:15pm

re: #414 thomsonator

And Homeland Security is on the scene, which is undoubtedly routine. At the moment, there is no sign of sabotage or terrorism; no one has reported any explosions, and it seems to be a massive structural failure.

I hope this is the case, but this is the strangest looking "total catastrophic failure" I've ever seen.

A few minutes ago, Fox local affiliate reported an interview with a car crash victim on scene who said she saw explosions "shooting up into the air"...before the collapse. Hmmm. It's going to be interesting as more info comes in.. I don't see how a possible accidental chemical explosion at the construction site could create a collapse in 3 sections.


I'm going to rely on the Skyway Bridge tragedy.. cars fall in, smoke billows.. but once again, I will state with specificity, that the Skyway was hit by a barge. It did not just collapse on its own. It really was a horrible tragedy.

450 The flying Kiwi  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:46:21pm

Charles, I say, as well "GOOD GRIEF, KNOCK OFF THE INFIGHTING, YOU SHOULD ALL BE STANDING SHOULDER TO SHOULDER, TERRORIST ATTACK OR NOT"

451 Jeff_McAwesome  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:46:24pm

re: #446 g3n3r1c

Homeland Insecurity wouldn't know terrorism if it bit them in the ass.

452 GregInSeattle  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:46:25pm

re: #446 g3n3r1c

Good news, but it seems early to say that. These things often take a long time to figure out.

453 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:46:48pm

re: #402 mama winger

Yes...we are told not to use cell phones...can't get through on any 612 numbers...WISH I could get hold of my eldest daughter...she COULD have come back from work that direction...

454 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:46:53pm

I had heard the line of T-storms coming thru tonight would be light . That report was from earlier this afternoon. Does it look to be heavier , Minnesotans?

455 cookielady  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:47:02pm

Fervent prayers now going up for all victims and rescuers.

This is horrible. I have a sneaking little phobia of bridges, mostly because they are over my bigger phobia of water, and living in Missouri I have good reason to fear far too many of them.

Just horrible.

456 abu_garcia  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:47:37pm

#416 mrfocus

Not really if you've got advance degree in Civil Engineering taken an elementary course in structural analysis (and understood it).
457 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:47:40pm

Anybody of you chemists know what they use to de-ice these bridges?

458 Dave the.....  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:47:49pm

I haven't read the posts but most of you probably saw the school bus. Talk about good luck. A difference of seconds or yards would have put a bus load of kiddies into a fall.

Instead the bus stopped and they bailed out the back emergency exit.

459 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:47:50pm

re: #453 Ma Sands

re: #402 mama winger

Yes...we are told not to use cell phones...can't get through on any 612 numbers...WISH I could get hold of my eldest daughter...she COULD have come back from work that direction...

Oh Ma.

Be of good courage. Remember the sparrows.

460 savage_nation[deleted]  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:47:52pm
461 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:48:29pm

Ok, I want to SLAP the rubberneckers! GO HOME AND GET OUT OF THE WAY!

462 FreeIowa  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:48:32pm

In my totally uninformed opinion, terrorists don’t want their work to be mistaken for an engineering or nature disaster.

463 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:48:41pm

SPECIAL WEATHER STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE TWIN CITIES/CHANHASSEN MN
727 PM CDT WED AUG 1 2007

MNZ061-020100-
ANOKA-
727 PM CDT WED AUG 1 2007

...SIGNIFICANT WEATHER ALERT FOR ANOKA COUNTY UNTIL 800 PM CDT...

AT 725 PM CDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR WAS TRACKING A
STRONG THUNDERSTORM NEAR COON RAPIDS...AND MOVING SOUTHEAST AT 10
MPH.

HAIL UP TO DIME SIZE IS EXPECTED WITH THIS STORM.

LOCATIONS THAT MAY BE AFFECTED INCLUDE BLAINE.

PEOPLE IN SOUTHEASTERN ANOKA COUNTY...INCLUDING THE CITY OF BLAINE...
SHOULD MONITOR THE WEATHER SITUATION CLOSELY. LISTEN FOR POSSIBLE
WARNINGS AND BE PREPARED TO TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION SHOULD SEVERE
WEATHER THREATEN.

464 Yankee Division Son  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:48:54pm

I'm not even going to speculate what the cause may be, I just hope folks are OK... so far I have only heard three fatalities reported, even though it's being reported 50-100 vehicles are involved. but it's way to early...

I am quite sure, however, the cause will be found after investigation...

465 eon  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:49:01pm

re: #363 Stinky Wizzleteats

I was there while they were still cleaning up, in Feb 1968. The biggest problem was clearing the channel for barge traffic. The Ohio averages 1/2 mile wide (meaning; up to a mile and a quarter some places, under a half elsewhere), but deep it isn't overall (some deep holes, but average depth under 100 ft.) The wreckage was close enough to the surface in places to rip the bottom out of a towboat, even after the above-water wreckage had been taken out of the channel. It took almost two years to get the majority of it out. Some of it is still down there, I understand.

This "clean-up" is going to take at least as long. And as with Silver, they really won't be sure what happened until they can examine the majority of the wreckage of the suspension system and deck to see what they look like. The Silver Bay Bridge (to give it its full name) was reassembled in a cornfield, sort of like the way they do with crashed airliners. I strongly suspect something similar may happen in this case.

eon

466 mrfocus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:49:35pm

re: #446 g3n3r1c

homeland security says it sees nothing about terrorism here

They might wait for the engineering report.

467 abu_garcia  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:49:38pm

re: #462 FreeIowa

In my totally uninformed opinion, terrorists don’t want their work to be mistaken for an engineering or nature disaster.


Very good point.

468 Temujin  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:49:38pm

re: #438 Jimash

It's pretty awful. I can't imagine falling 64 feet in the car and don't want to .

Agreed. OTOH, I know of places where a similar structural failure could drop you onto bare rock. From a greater height.

469 Lucius Septimius  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:49:40pm

re: #463 The Other Les

Here's the radar loop. Looks intense, but short in duration.

470 Charles  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:49:51pm

re: #462 FreeIowa

In my totally uninformed opinion, terrorists don’t want their work to be mistaken for an engineering or nature disaster.

Very good point.

471 ornery elephant  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:50:03pm

Code Orange at Hennepin County Medical Center and Fairview Hospitals in downtown Minneapolis - that means they are calling in all "Trauma" personnel to the hospitals beyond those that are already there.

472 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:50:06pm

The MDOT site is a bit confusing, but the last inspection I could find was 2004, which seems a bit long ago. Can't locate any kind of report.
September 2, 2004
Interstate 35W Mississippi River Bridge Repairs, Inspection Scheduled Tonight
[Link: www.dot.state.mn.us...]

473 Mike C.  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:50:07pm

re: #400 storagemanager

Yeah - all I'm trying to do is contact my sister who lives there. I don't have time for your crap.

474 FQ Kafir  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:50:12pm

re: #453 Ma Sands

Hope all is well with her. Please post when you hear news.

475 Cygnus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:50:21pm

re: #349 Charles

It is extremely unlikely to be terrorism, in my opinion.

Planting enough explosives to cause something like this would have been noticed.

And if it were terrorists, they'd be all over the news claiming responsibility.

476 grumpy old codger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:50:24pm

re: #191 me

re: #285 mnkaren

Knowing CAIR, they won't shed a tear for any non-moslems involved. If a moslem was involved then it would be a crime of prejudice. They would DEMAND an investigation.

477 GregInSeattle  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:50:27pm

re: #462 FreeIowa

In my totally uninformed opinion, terrorists don’t want their work to be mistaken for an engineering or nature disaster.

Great point.

478 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:50:27pm

re: #454 mama winger

Well, whatsomever, I anin't gonna let the thunder shut me down from the computer this time...it's the only way I'll be able to "hear" if my daughter is safe...one of my twin sons is on "the other end", trying to reach her from outside the city...

479 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:50:31pm

Official from Homeland Security: 'it does not appear to be an act of terrorism'.

480 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:50:36pm

In this case, I'm not sure whether it being a case of terrorism would worry me as much as if they find out it was a structural failure.

That would make me wonder about the safety of many bridges in America.

481 Fernandez  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:50:49pm

re: #436 Lucius Septimius

re: #410 Fernandez

Reminds me of the Nimitz collapse in the '89 San Francisco Earthquake.

I remember that well -- my uncle and nephew were on that road when it collapsed -- they were only a few miles from there when it happened.

All we can do is pray.

Ditto All we can do is pray. I hope the death toll and injuries are low. My husband was an fireman (received a medal for work there). You do not want to know the horrible, horrible things they had to do to free people.

482 ornery elephant  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:51:03pm

re: #454 mama winger

mama winger, there's a heavy thunderstorm over Coon Rapids right now but i think it will miss downtown to the North

483 bosforus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:51:12pm

re: #462 FreeIowa

they'd rather take credit, agree. but they'd much rather have us fight about who on the inside was responsible.

484 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:51:23pm

re: #457 goodbye_natalie

On roads the usually use salt. I'm not sure what they de-ice planes with.

485 abu_garcia  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:51:32pm

#470 Charles

Very good point.

Jinx, you owe me a Coke!

486 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:51:43pm

re: #457 goodbye_natalie

They added, in the last few years, automatic salt-sprayers all over the bridges...

487 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:52:27pm

This is a total disaster. This is a blow to two major economic thoroughfares for Minneapolis- 35W (obviously) but the river is blocked too- and it's south of the port of Minneapolis. It will take years to repair this.

488 mama winger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:52:27pm

re: #478 Ma Sands

Post as soon as you hear. She's probably just as worried about you.

489 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:52:29pm

D.O.T. press conference 9:30 PM NY time, Foxnews.

490 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:52:41pm

Godspeed to all involved.

491 RTLM  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:53:01pm

Apparently construction work has been going on all summer- Says John Gibson.

20-30 workers on the bridge when it collapsed.

492 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:53:20pm

re: #474 FQ Kafir

'Course I will. :) Thanks.

493 FQ Kafir  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:53:32pm

re: #484 Killgore Trout

re: #457 goodbye_natalie

On roads the usually use salt. I'm not sure what they de-ice planes with.

Keeping Ice Off Of Planes

494 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:53:34pm

re: #470 Charles

That's also why they tend to hit things in pairs, or more.

495 Cygnus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:53:39pm

re: #395 ornery elephant

oh great. and now there are thunderstorms headed into the area.

Gilding the lily. Great.

496 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:54:35pm

re: #491 RTLM
There has been some major construction work going on for years on the major freeways in Mpls/St.Paul

497 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:54:41pm

re: #488 mama winger

Shucks! Never thought of that! :) Thanks.

498 Dave the.....  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:54:48pm

Yes, last night I went nearby on the I-94 bridge and saw the traffic backup on 35W due to the road work.

This is a huge artery and will hinder movement for a long time in the area.

499 ziggyelman  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:55:00pm

re: #435 me

re: #416 mrfocus


re: #349 Charles

It is extremely unlikely to be terrorism, in my opinion.
Planting enough explosives to cause something like this would have been noticed.

Not really if you've got advance degree in Civil Engineering. Some friends who know how to explode plastic explosives with a cell phone. Take a look from the underside of the bridge:
[Link: www.johnweeks.com...]

Yes, I 2nd that.

Man, look at the underside of that bridge! It looks so very weak! Compare it to the old bridge in the distance, that would never ever collapse like that...

500 Allah al Fubar  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:55:02pm

re: #473 Mike C.

re: #400 storagemanager

Yeah - all I'm trying to do is contact my sister who lives there. I don't have time for your crap.

Mike, best wishes to you... Ma Sands says that calls are blocked. Will pray that you reach her and that she's fine.

501 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:55:02pm

Twin Cities Red Cross

[Link: www.redcrosstc.org...]

502 freetoken  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:55:31pm

re: #480 goodbye_natalie

In this case, I'm not sure whether it being a case of terrorism would worry me as much as if they find out it was a structural failure.

That would make me wonder about the safety of many bridges in America.

Which will probably be a talking point for all the talking heads for weeks... maybe even a campaign point for the democrats on how republicans have underfunded infrastructure...

Given a gross estimate of the weight of the bridge and the distance it fell, we are talking about the release of millions of foot pounds of energy. Most of that will go into heating up the material, and the rest into shaking the earth, with a little bit into audible waves. It is not surprising bits here and there were flying up into the air.

All bridges want to fall down. It is only by the ingeniousness of engineers that we figure out how to keep them up.

503 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:55:34pm

a common sayin up here in the great white north- there is two seasons here in Minnesota winther and road construction

504 Tuna  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:55:51pm

This bridge is one mile from my home. It's so horifying. I ride on this bridge all the time, it's such a main artery through our city. May God have mercy on us. Please pray. Thank you.

-The Tuna

505 alteredbeat  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:55:54pm

I was on the 3rd Ave bridge over the mississippi just north west of this bridge about 20 minutes after it happened. Saw some black smoke and about 3 choppers. Downtown was just going crazy. Emergency vehicles everywhere. I hurried home to see it all on TV. Completely unbelievable.

506 SDC  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:55:54pm

CNN has a report of at least 7 dead now, from one of the workers that went down to try to help survivors on the centre section.

507 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:56:15pm

Official death toll is 3...

508 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:56:32pm

So far...

509 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:56:35pm

re: #480 goodbye_natalie

There are bridges in the metro NY area that are in bad condition; the only NYC Borough that has a land connection is the Bronx, to Westchester County, where we live. It is indeed very frightening. The Tappan Zee bridge from here to Rockland County, across the Hudson? Scary. They are still arguing about whether to repair or replace it.

510 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:56:53pm

re: #484 Killgore Trout

I would be surprised Killian if they used NaCl in this case. Though cost effective, it's pretty corrosive. I was guessing maybe magnesium chloride with some corrosion inhibitor or potassium acetate because they are more effective at lower temperatures.

But I honestly don't know. You may be right.

511 Pullus Iulius  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:57:18pm

Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis. Te decet hymnus, Deus, in Sion, et tibi reddetur votum in Ierusalem.
And personal prayers for those hurt and in danger.

512 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:57:29pm

re: #486 Ma Sands

Thank you. Are all your children okay?

513 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:58:08pm

re: #504 Tuna

You have our prayers. You must still be in shock.

514 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:58:11pm

This bridge had a built-in chemical de-icing system installed about 10 years ago. It's a system of tubes just under the surface that spray a chemical over the road. Thios was being worked on as well. I heard earlier that they were pouring new concrete on the surface today.

And my friend just checked in. *sigh*

515 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:58:16pm

re: #498 Dave the...

Do you think the neighboring bridges will be able to handle the extra traffic?

516 akak  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:58:22pm

best wishes Lizards/family & friends

517 Mike C.  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:58:39pm

re: #500 Allah al Fubar

I've never been up there and have no bloody idea if she even ever comes near that bridge. But you know how it is. When that car bomb went off at the Doha Players Theatre in Qatar back in 2005, I spent 3 days trying to contact people there I still know, even though the odds were pretty low that any one of them would have been there that evening.

518 rickadams  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:58:45pm

>Twin Cities lizards, check in, please.

Here! Geez, and I lived in California at the time of the '89 quake, too.

519 MilkOfMalfeasance  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:58:48pm

re: #514 Noam Sayin'

This bridge had a built-in chemical de-icing system installed about 10 years ago. It's a system of tubes just under the surface that spray a chemical over the road. Thios was being worked on as well. I heard earlier that they were pouring new concrete on the surface today.

And my friend just checked in. *sigh*

Thats good news Noam.

520 Thanos  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:59:19pm

Still no reports of deaths, it's times like this I wish I could believe so I could pray. I hope the news continues this way. Please, no casualties.

I am still looking at that one section twisted sideways. We had a traing rumbling by underneath, looks like tank or coal cars crushed. Harmonics from passing train + weight of rush hour+ weakened steel (freeze/thaw/road-salt) + weight to one side + weakened structure from ongoing construction activity= new type of bridge failure?

521 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:59:21pm

re: #512 goodbye_natalie

Well...my son says he finally was able to reach my daughter's voice mail on her cell...I think that means no way could she be in the water...?

522 Dax  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:59:30pm

re: #484 Killgore Trout

re: #457 goodbye_natalie

On roads the usually use salt. I'm not sure what they de-ice planes with.

In Minnesota, they switched to a liquid product a few years back. Calcium chloride I believe. Don't know what they use for planes. Maybe propylene glycol. It's a food-grade version of anti-freeze.

523 ornery elephant  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:59:33pm

re: #504 Tuna

Tuna, as a fellow MN lizard, I'm so glad you are safe. And I can feel all the prayers zipping over our heads!

524 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:59:54pm

re: #499 ziggyelman

It would not take big charges in the right places.

525 abu_garcia  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 5:59:54pm

re: #517 Mike C.
Yeah, I do. Hope she's OK.

526 Thanos  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:00:01pm

re: #507 Ma Sands

Official death toll is 3...

I am so sorry to hear that, let's hope for no more

527 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:00:05pm

so far 3 confirmed dead pray for their families

528 FQ Kafir  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:00:13pm

re: #520 Thanos

Fox has reported at least 3 deaths, unfortunately.

529 maximus kreyzlkil  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:00:42pm

i think it was more likely batman ..Uhh.. sorry hollywood, I mean mothman than ole' nik but there were so many people all along thr bridge, we'll sure find out tho. God help the victims survivors and rescuers.

530 Dave the.....  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:00:45pm
Man, look at the underside of that bridge! It looks so very weak! Compare it to the old bridge in the distance, that would never ever collapse like that...

I thought of the same thing. Those old stone bridges are 75 years old and as good as new. The 1960's freeway bridges are due for replacement.

531 steve miller  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:01:06pm

re: #210 GregInSeattle

They're going to be fixing the I-5 bridge into Seattle in two weeks, where it crosses over I-90 (just east of the two stadia in Seattle/SoDo district). I can imagine they'll be reviewing their plans.

532 Dasher  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:01:29pm

This is a bridge that my daughter would drive across every day going to college last year. I have driven across this many times. Wow... it is really a mess. Latest word is 3 dead so far

533 Catttt  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:01:33pm

re: #504 Tuna

This bridge is one mile from my home. It's so horifying. I ride on this bridge all the time, it's such a main artery through our city. May God have mercy on us. Please pray. Thank you.

-The Tuna

{ { Tuna } }

534 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:01:47pm

re: #520 Thanos

(It's times like these that He uses to draw you to Himself, so He can comfort you...prayin' for you...)


:)

535 Stinky Wizzleteats  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:01:51pm

Don't know if anyone has seen the OSHA video of the Big Blue collapse while building Milwaukee's Miller Park. But all the eyewitness accounts from tonight say there was a rumbling, then the collapse. You can hear the exact same thing on the Miller Park video.

536 FQ Kafir  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:01:52pm

My heart goes out to the ones who are trapped under the rubble.

May the rescue workers get to these people in time to save their lives.

537 Thanos  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:02:07pm

re: #521 Ma Sands

re: #512 goodbye_natalie

Well...my son says he finally was able to reach my daughter's voice mail on her cell...I think that means no way could she be in the water...?

Keep calling, the voice mail server is at the wireless switch

538 Cartman  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:02:09pm

I just don't understand the compulsion on the part of some here to inject politics or "dry humor" into this discussion, at such an early state of development. This tragedy will unfold, and many hearts will be broken. Could some of you please leave it be, at least for a while?

539 Charles  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:02:37pm

re: #530 Dave the...

Man, look at the underside of that bridge! It looks so very weak! Compare it to the old bridge in the distance, that would never ever collapse like that...
I thought of the same thing. Those old stone bridges are 75 years old and as good as new. The 1960's freeway bridges are due for replacement.

Uh ... I think that those of us who are not engineers should not make judgments on those supports.

540 Dave the.....  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:02:38pm
re: #498 Dave the...

Do you think the neighboring bridges will be able to handle the extra traffic?

I'm thinking they wish the North Star commuter rail line was up and running. I think it's like 2 years off yet.

541 ornery elephant  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:02:56pm

re: #507 Ma Sands

Official death toll is 3...

Local news isn't reporting any deaths! wtf?

542 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:03:09pm

re: #538 Cartman

second.

543 FQ Kafir  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:03:12pm

re: #538 Cartman

Agreed... this is not the time for levity.

544 Retread  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:03:22pm

James Lileks comes to mind immediately. Anybody know if he's a lizard, and OK?

545 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:03:38pm

re: #515 Sharmuta

re: #498 Dave the...

Do you think the neighboring bridges will be able to handle the extra traffic?

Those nearby bridges are streets, not freeways. They'll handle the load but not the traffic. No doubt they'll reroute back to a nearby highway - 280 for the locals.

546 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:04:02pm

re: #487 Sharmuta

You would be surprised for the right price how quickly a bridge can be built. When I-40, the major interstate between E/W for the U.S. collapsed near Sallisaw, OK a few years back after being hit by a barge, they actually repaired the bridge in 42 days. This one is worse so it would take longer it is amazing what engineering firms can do when given the incentive.

547 akak  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:04:07pm

re: #480 goodbye_natalie

reminds of Quebec bridge from years ago...don't they give pieces of the bridge iron to graduates in jewellry form?

file under gentle reminder!

/not that I'm discounting anything here...Minny and all

548 Thanos  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:04:15pm

re: #528 FQ Kafir

re: #520 Thanos

Fox has reported at least 3 deaths, unfortunately.

yes, I saw :(

549 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:04:20pm

re: #538 Cartman

Bless you...the voice of reason.

550 Yankee Division Son  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:04:21pm

re: #521 Ma Sands

Not sure, but I hope/prey she's OK..

551 PETN Sandwich  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:04:23pm

Large structures make a lot of noise when they fail...

Big Blue
[Link: www.craneaccidents.com...]

552 Dave the.....  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:04:29pm

I

thought of the same thing. Those old stone bridges are 75 years old and as good as new. The 1960's freeway bridges are due for replacement.
Uh ... I think that those of us who are not engineers should not make judgments on those supports.

Charles, I was saying that because it's sister bridge in St Paul...called the 35E bridge...was replace about 3 years ago.

553 Dasher  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:04:33pm

Some still pictures

[Link: www.slide.com...]

554 goddessoftheclassroom  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:04:42pm

re: #544 Retread

I think he's still on a cruise.

555 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:04:50pm

re: #539 Charles

The bridge in the distance looks like concrete not stone to me anyhow.(architect).

556 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:04:52pm

I pray for those involved in the incident and hope for a speedy recovery of those injured.

I'm late to the conversation, but having seen this failure, I'd suggest two possible causes a structural failure along the lines of the Mianus River Bridge collapse in Connecticut in 1983. Metal fatigue, precipitated by rust, may be the root cause. The other may be scour of the footings, undermining their stability (that caused a collapse in upstate NY several years back - NYS Thruway in Schoharie County) .

After the Mianus bridge collapse, state and feds got real busy in inspecting bridges and other structures for collapse potential and pin and hanger designs were reinforced (that was the design that failed in CT).

The problem is that many states have not done a sufficient job staying on top of their infrastructure - and this may be yet another tragic reminder of what happens when you don't.

Inspectors will look at everything from soil conditions to see if scour was a problem that undermined the footings to metal fatigue, to conducting tests on the metal and concrete in the structure.

557 Highrise  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:05:08pm

re: #541 ornery elephant

That is exactly why local news is kinda dying out :( . But in this case, I wish they are right for once over the 24/7 news :( .

I was literally stunned when I saw the wreckage of the double decker highway in California. I can't even bring myself to view the footage of this bridge that just collapsed atm.

558 Allah al Fubar  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:05:16pm

Signing out.. Sending Love & prayers to all who are affected by this tragedy. "May the Lord Bless you and Keep you... may He lift up His countenence upon you, may He make His face shine upon you, and be gracious unto you, and grant you Peace".

And as Mama Winger said, "Remember the Sparrow".


Read: Matthew (New Testament. Words of Jesus in Red)

559 FQ Kafir  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:05:17pm

How will people commute, now that this bridge has collapsed?

I mean, are we adding 1hr, 30 min, 2hrs to the commute?

560 Stinky Wizzleteats  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:06:08pm

re: #551 PETN Sandwich

Large structures make a lot of noise when they fail...

Big Blue
[Link: www.craneaccidents.com...]

Bingo.

561 Dave the.....  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:06:11pm
James Lileks comes to mind immediately. Anybody know if he's a lizard, and OK?

Don't think he's a lizard but from reading his blog, it looks like he lives, works and plays on the Mpls side of the river, so it's unlikely his normal day would carry him there.

562 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:06:17pm

re: #545 Noam Sayin'

Okay- thank you.

563 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:06:24pm

re: #541 ornery elephant

I'm listening to WCCO radio, and Channel 5 tv...

564 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:06:33pm

re: #557 Highrise

Yes it will be a horrendous mess where there should have been logical order.

565 Gordan the Fisherman  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:06:39pm

My mother just got back from a short vacation there. Makes you really think that anything could happen at any time.

Hopefully the deaths with be minimal. Thoughts and prayers are with all.

566 Retread  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:06:43pm

#544 goddess, I think he's back and posting those cruise reports after the fact.

567 Thanos  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:06:55pm

re: #556 lawhawk

I pray for those involved in the incident and hope for a speedy recovery of those injured.

I'm late to the conversation, but having seen this failure, I'd suggest two possible causes a structural failure along the lines of the Mianus River Bridge collapse in Connecticut in 1983. Metal fatigue, precipitated by rust, may be the root cause. The other may be scour of the footings, undermining their stability (that caused a collapse in upstate NY several years back - NYS Thruway in Schoharie County) .

After the Mianus bridge collapse, state and feds got real busy in inspecting bridges and other structures for collapse potential and pin and hanger designs were reinforced (that was the design that failed in CT).

The problem is that many states have not done a sufficient job staying on top of their infrastructure - and this may be yet another tragic reminder of what happens when you don't.

Inspectors will look at everything from soil conditions to see if scour was a problem that undermined the footings to metal fatigue, to conducting tests on the metal and concrete in the structure.

There appears to be a sluicway or something for the dam on the side that is canted off the pylons.

568 The Shadow Do  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:07:10pm

re: #432 Sharmuta

2006 report claims stress fractures in the steel...

Interesting bit of information. Source? It strikes me as awfully negligent if this was reported and not immediately addressed by adding "shore up" steel or taking other remedial measures?

569 Jeff_McAwesome  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:08:16pm

Fox has an engineer on who says that the collapse was "very odd."

For what it's worth.

570 Dave the.....  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:08:22pm
I'm listening to WCCO radio, and Channel 5 tv...

Ma Sands. Usaully I'm not home from work yet, but took a vaca day today so had on KSTP-5 6PM news. They had it first, but I thought for sure it was a mistake. Freeway bridges don't collapse.

571 Ojoe  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:08:32pm

re: #568 The Shadow Do

Structures have cracks. They have to be longer than a critical length to self-propagate and cause failure.

572 ornery elephant  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:08:42pm

re: #557 Highrise

Unfortunately, you're right Highrise...local just confirmed 3 dead so far.

:*

573 Thanos  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:08:49pm

Back in a bit, my wife is giving me the evil eye... I must do an hour of labor on the remodel project.

574 bosforus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:09:20pm

re: #539 Charles

and as one (not structural, mind you) i would say let those investigating make the final call. but you'd be surprised what a small support like those could do. there's likely a couple more tons of concrete below the water that can't be seen in that picture. steel and concrete can be engineered into incredibly strong, resilient, ductile materials. the fact that the bridge has even stood on those 'tiny' supports for as long as it has should be evidence that the supports probably aren't the main cause, unless they were somehow weakened.

575 grumpy old codger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:09:49pm

re: #464 Yankee Division Son

Was your father in the YD? My Godfather served in the 26th and had some great stories, DDAY plus, bastogne, patton. He was in the YD from 1940-41 until 1945. Seems he joined the YD to avoid the draft, but then got caught up in WWII. Had two first cousins who served/jumped with 101/82 and they used to give my G-father a lot of BS. Father was Navy and blew them both off. Lots of Marines in the family too, including me.

576 Tuna  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:09:59pm

Thank you NY Nana, Thank you Ornery Elephant

-The Tuna

577 Temujin  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:10:01pm

re: #556 lawhawk

I was thinking about the NYS Thruway bridge collapse too. A close relative of mine was traveling on the Thruway that very morning.

Not sure that scouring is likely to be a cause here, though.

578 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:10:06pm

re: #553 Dasher

I see in your slideshow that the bridge also landed on some rail cars- so there's another commercial line damaged.

579 tfc3rid  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:10:53pm

re: #547 akak

Yes, it was a tradition in engineering that there were rings formed from it and given out to graduating engineers. That tradition continues as the Order of the Engineer... I have my silver ring...

580 GeeWiz  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:10:59pm

re: #374 bosforus

A totally logical and understood position. No one can predict the future of any structure, let alone predict the effects of weather and man's use on it. The acceptance of that knowledge undermines our confidence in our infrastructure and plays into the terrorist's hands. Witness the comments here that question whether or not terrorism was involved. Thank you for introducing some sanity about age/weather/use to deflate that argument. We need to focus on the true threat and not chase shadows.

I live in CT and witnessed the collapse of the Mianus River bridge on I-95 in Greenwich, CT. It happened long before 9/11 and the investigation focused on poor maintenance of our infrastructure. Changes were made at the state level and it hasn't happened since. I bring this up because I believe that it is germane to this incident, look to our neglect of our infrastructure maintenance before we suspect terrorists. It's the old "cry wolf" thingy. I could be all wrong but I suspect I may be right.

581 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:11:13pm

MN Twins have canceled tomorrows ballgame.

582 alteredbeat  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:11:14pm

re: #540 Dave the...

re: #498 Dave the...Do you think the neighboring bridges will be able to handle the extra traffic?

I'm thinking they wish the North Star commuter rail line was up and running. I think it's like 2 years off yet.

That line would do absolutely nothing to relieve traffic affected by this collapse. This bridge is in downtown Mpls. Northstar would run from downtown northwest through the suburbs.

Actually no extra bridges are needed to divert traffic. It has been routed through other freeways to the East of the river.

583 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:11:19pm

re: #570 Dave the...

I know.

584 mrfocus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:11:55pm

re: #539 Charles

re: #530 Dave the...

Man, look at the underside of that bridge! It looks so very weak! Compare it to the old bridge in the distance, that would never ever collapse like that...

I thought of the same thing. Those old stone bridges are 75 years old and as good as new. The 1960's freeway bridges are due for replacement.

Uh ... I think that those of us who are not engineers should not make judgments on those supports.

Charles,
Want an engineer contact:

Henry Petroski, Aleksandar S. Vesic Professor

Professor Petroski is author of the book, To Engineer Is Human: The Role of Failure in Successful Design (1985), and is the writer and presenter of the 1987 BBC-television documentary, "To Engineer Is Human," which has been broadcast on PBS. He is also the author of The Pencil: A History of Design and Circumstance (1990), The Evolution of Useful Things (1992), Design Paradigms: Case Histories of Error and Judgment in Engineering (1994), Engineers of Dreams: Great Bridge Builders and The Spanning of America (1995), Invention by Design: How Engineers Get from Thought to Thing (1996), and Remaking the World: Adventures in Engineering (1997). The Book on the Bookshelf (1999),

Contact on page here Pajamas Exclusive:

[Link: www.cee.duke.edu...]

585 FQ Kafir  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:12:06pm

Wikipedia is pretty quick on this one:

2007 I-35W Bridge collapse

Main article: I-35W Bridge

On Wednesday, August 1, 2007, a portion of the I-35W Bridge near University Avenue collapsed into the Mississippi River around 6:05pm CDT, leaving multiple vehicles in the Mississippi River. Several vehicles also caught fire.[4] As many as 50 vehicles were involved in the collapse.[5] There has been road construction going on for several weeks.[6]The metal arch bridge was built in 1967. The length is approximately 1,900 feet (580 m). This collapse hit the bridge at 6:05pm, rush hour. One school bus was on the road at the time.

586 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:12:17pm

Sen Coleman and Klobuchar on CNN

587 Mike C.  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:12:29pm

Crap. Phone lines simply unavailable, and she ain't looking at her e-mail. Guess I'll have to trust in the odds.

I have a couple of friends who are actually in the bridge design and inspection business, so I'll be interested to hear what they have to say about this once they have sufficient data to say anything.

588 tum  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:12:43pm

Bush is behind this. As some engineers and martin sheen and they will tell you, bridges don't just collapse. It's got to do with physics and newton and stuff. Bridges can't just collapse like that. It was a controlled demolition(*)!

(*) or possibly orbital reverse engineered alien energy weapons

/moonbat

589 Krampus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:13:13pm

re: #572 ornery elephant

re: #557 Highrise

Unfortunately, you're right Highrise...local just confirmed 3 dead so far.

:*

I just heard on CNN (9:10 pm), there's at least 7 deaths. Very sad event.

590 nyc redneck  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:13:38pm

re: #1 mama winger

God have mercy.

mama winger, you're back.

591 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:13:39pm

re: #587 Mike C.

Mike C, my prayers for you and your sister, I hope you are able to get in touch with her soon.

592 Iron Fist[deleted]  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:13:47pm
593 RTLM  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:13:47pm

re: #587 Mike C. Can you text her?

594 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:14:07pm

re: #556 lawhawk

The Mianus River collapse was after my parents zt'l died, and after Shivah was over...I was at the family home in Newton, MA, taking care of all the things the lawyer was not involved in. My husband had to return here, and drove off of it about 5-6 minutes before the collapse..they are talking about it now. I do not like to think of it, all these years after. No cell phones then..and he was already home when I heard about it..from him.

Heartbreaking for the people involved in Minneapolis and St. Paul...and the State of Minnesota.

A pin and hanger assembly, no cap, pigeon droppings, corrosion, etc. were enough to cause the collapse.

595 FQ Kafir  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:14:31pm

I hope this doesn't give any ideas to people of the Islamofascist persuasion.

596 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:15:06pm

re: #587 Mike C.

Mike, I remember when the I-40 bridge collapsed on a Sunday morning here in Oklahoma sweating it out to make sure my sister and her family were okay. I'm preaching to the choir but remember her chances of being okay are astronomical.

597 Captain Jack  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:15:08pm

lots of muslims in that town. Just kidding!

598 josephjcox  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:15:26pm

re: #559 FQ Kafir

How will people commute, now that this bridge has collapsed?

I mean, are we adding 1hr, 30 min, 2hrs to the commute?

I read 200,000 take the bridge each day. That is a massive number and hard to replace. We're probably looking at as many people telecommuting as possible - as in SF with their freeway fire.

599 The Shadow Do  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:15:47pm

re: #571 Ojoe

Mark that. This is definitely a wait and see on the engineering follow ups. With all going on with the structure it sort of reminds one of the "cascade" of failures sometimes associated with air crashes - sort of a perfect storm effect?

600 Ginn  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:15:58pm

Glad to hear the LGF Minnesotans are okay!

601 jcm  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:16:12pm

Collapses our tough rescue incidents. The rescuers are driven to get to as many victims as possible they have to be disciplined to work carefully or cause more death and injury. In a collapse the status the structure is completely unknown. They have to work slowly and carefully, putting weight in the wrong place, moving the wrong thing can cause additional collapses.

Don't expect a final tally for a minimum of 24 hours, it will be getting dark soon and that will slow things down, don't expect divers in the water into light tomorrow they will be doing recovery not rescue at this point.

The the civil engineers will have to survey and determine the stability of the remaining structure before the investigation will begin.

A preliminary report will take weeks and the final report months.

Pray for the victims, and the rescuers.

602 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:16:16pm

re: #576 Tuna

Just hang in there..healing takes awhile...

Live conference...

603 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:16:17pm

Mike C.

should have added in her favor. Oopsss...probably explains why I would never make it as a social worker.

604 Dasher  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:16:21pm

re: #578 Sharmuta

re: #553 Dasher

I see in your slideshow that the bridge also landed on some rail cars- so there's another commercial line damaged.

Yeah it crushed a couple train cars and of course the rail line will be closed for awhile through there.

The bridge is a major route into Minneapolis from the north and east. There are other routes that can be used.

605 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:16:25pm

From the examples that we know of in Iraq of jihadis taking out a bridge, they used a truck bomb, not demolition charges, because thats something they already know how to do, so for them its "quick and easy."

I agree with the assessment that if this would have been a terror attack, the cause would be highly obvious. Subtle terroism would kind of defeat the purpose...

Recall, we've recently had a massive steam explosion in lower Manhattan. Not terrorism. Infrastructure problems.

606 g3n3r1c  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:16:31pm

I know its easy to draw the terrorism link but please for the sake of the victims and the families just keep them in your prayers at this time

607 directorblue  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:16:42pm

re: #294 abu_garcia

Here are pictures of the bridge posted on the previous thread by mrfocus.

[Link: www.johnweeks.com...]

If you look at the supports at the top of the piers you can see that they will not resist any moments, i.e. they will not support any unbalanced loads.

Here are some aerial shots that show the relatively fragile appearance of the bridge.

608 The Other Les  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:16:43pm

re: #578 Sharmuta

re: #553 Dasher

I see in your slideshow that the bridge also landed on some rail cars- so there's another commercial line damaged.

Not really, its a siding, not a mainline.

609 Ma Sands  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:16:44pm

re: #587 Mike C.

Mike...my daughter-in-law just got through to me from the South Dakota Border...and my son called me from Prior Lake...if it's a land line perhaps you could get through...would that help?

610 mnkaren  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:16:55pm

re: #598 josephjcox

It will definitely strain other arteries. There are many ways to get around of course, unfortunately there is major construction on 3 main roads including 494/694 where 35E connects. Not going to be fun driving in the TC area for a long time

611 Charles  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:17:18pm

New thread now posted.

612 Jeff_McAwesome  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:17:22pm

According to FOX:

~50 cars on the bridge
~35 workers

613 Chotii  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:17:30pm

I keep thinking of Galloping Gertie (The original Tacoma Narrows bridge, between Tacoma and the peninsula in Washington State). A lot of cars went down with it, too.

Now they've built a new/third one (construction stopped at one point due to some of the materials they'd been sent being inferior). The new bridge is a toll bridge. I'll have to pay extra to visit my parents. Sigh. Of course, the planners didn't think to ask the people who would actually be AFFECTED by this new toll bridge. Because then they might have heard something they didn't want to hear.

614 Captain Jack  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:17:34pm

i lived in the greenwich, ct area during the mianus I-95 bridge collapse and i can tell you life sucked in that town for more than a year after. I-95 was detoured right through greenwich. gettting from one side of town to another was a nightmare.

615 Dasher  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:18:23pm

BTW: if you click on the slide show images you can see 2 mp blow ups of them

616 akak  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:18:24pm

re: #569 Jeff_McAwesome


resurfacing...nothing to do with superstructure

617 Thanos  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:18:25pm

Six children taken to Northside

618 bosforus  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:18:31pm

re: #580 GeeWiz

yup. my first thought on this was 'so my professors were right, our roads really are starting to collapse'. we used to talk about it as a joke ensuring us future work. in no way do i mean to make light of the reality of the situation. nor am i implying that i believe that bridges are going to start falling like dominoes. i'm just saying, it's not so unexpected.

619 Yankee Division Son  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:18:31pm

re: #575 grumpy old codger

re: #464 Yankee Division Son

Was
your father in the YD? My Godfather served in the 26th and had some
great stories, DDAY plus, bastogne, patton. He was in the YD from
1940-41 until 1945. Seems he joined the YD to avoid the draft, but then
got caught up in WWII. Had two first cousins who served/jumped with
101/82 and they used to give my G-father a lot of BS. Father was Navy
and blew them both off. Lots of Marines in the family too, including me.

Sounds like he had the very same tour of duty... dad was early 42 through Jan 46, Sgt., 26th INF, 263rd FAB. He installed/maintained the communication lines from the forward observers to the guns.

If your godfather is still with us, tell him howdy! and thank you!

620 looking closely  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:18:45pm

Damn I'm cynical, but how long before this gets blamed on the Bush Administration.

621 tunnelrat  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:19:45pm

It will be interesting to read the editorial page in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune tomorrow morning. No doubt they will do all they can to blame this tragedy on Republicans, specifically our govenor Tim Pawlenty. He has done a wonderful job of running our state and holding down taxes, which irritates the socialists at the newspaper to no end.
They have been whining about our alleged "crumbling highways" for several years now, although I cannot ever remember a summer where there has been more road construction than this one. Oh how I wish that we had a good newspaper here in the twin cities.

622 mean Gene  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:21:57pm

Prayers going up.
What a sad thing to happen.

623 Dolphin  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:23:01pm
re: #402 mama winger

Yes...we are told not to use cell phones...can't get through on any 612 numbers...WISH I could get hold of my eldest daughter...she COULD have come back from work that direction...

Praying you hear something from you eldest daughter soon.

This is a horrible tragedy.

624 prowling  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:23:09pm

#418 g 3n 3r 1c
No. It's just horrible for you to hear.

625 Tosprops  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:24:33pm

For anyone that's interested, here is a Fatigue Assessment of Deck Truss of Bridge 9340 TH I35W over the Mississippi River from 1999.

[Link: www.cts.umn.edu...]

626 RememberSekhmet?  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:26:28pm

I hope they find everybody, and that everybody's OK. I'm gonna go with the 24-hour rule until we know better, when it comes to the cause.

627 josephjcox  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:26:46pm

My impression (layman's) of the construction world is that we've continually developed ways to do more and more with less and less - making individual components more critical as time as gone on and the physical envelope has been pushed outwards. The 30s bridges look stronger - and the government at the time built them almost specifically to employ lots of people/spend lots of money so it wouldn't surprise me if they are stronger. They do 'crumble', but I haven't heard of them collapsing. 30s houses are another issue, because of crappy personal budgets, they are flimsier than what came before and after.

628 Mike C.  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:26:59pm

Well, no luck, so I'll just have to trust in the overwhelmingly favorable odds. Hell, I don't know if she ever even comes near that bridge. Hope it doesn't screw up her wedding next month.

I'm out.

629 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:28:49pm

You will see more of these in the concrete structures that are exposed to extreme freeze thaw cycles. This is just the first round of what has to be a massive infrastructure rebuild. The Longfellow Bridge between Cambridge and Boston is slowly but surely going to crap because the expansion of the water logged cement expands it enough to crack it. A tunnel on the Storrow will have to be greatly rebuilt because it was not waterproofed when it was built 30 years ago. Unless you get it right with the materials and the expansion joints on these bridges to make up for the dimensional changes due to weather, they fail sooner or later. Get ready for more of these, they are coming.

630 zombie_killian  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:33:23pm

For whatever it's worth, I found out about this while browsing the CNN headlines on my phone- although it was pretty vague at first. The offerings were pretty limited (ABC, CNN and ESPN), so I thought I'd check what ABC news had to say about it...not only was there NO mention of the bridge collapse, it was a smorgasbord of seemingly agenda-driven Aren't-you-ashamed-to-be-an-American? headlines...more indignation that the AG actually *gasp!* fired people, US Marines as war criminals and this puff piece about whiney libs moving up to Canada to show the rest of us knuckle-dragging rednecks a thing or two...part of me wanted to say "Good- let 'em stay", but that would hardly be fair to have the non-moonbat Canucks put up with them for an indefinite period.

But about the bridge- I noticed what looked like the remnants of some truss work among the wreckage. This wasn't by any chance a drawbridge, was it?

631 Fearless Fred  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:39:31pm

re: #376 Mike C.

re: #318 storagemanager


Yes, they may. A terrible tragedy. So stop trying to turn it to your advantage when you know eff-all about the cause.

Asshole.

Isn't this sort of a 'public' place? I'm familiar with some of your language, I even use it myself sometimes, but sorry, I don't know 'eff-all'.

Please help ... I just want to catch up.

632 GeeWiz  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:39:34pm

re: #618 bosforus

I just happen to live in the central CT area and been stuck in many traffic jams in Hartford. I have witnessed many re-surfacing projects on both I-84 and I-91 and have wondered if the over-passes were built to anticipate those up-grades. As someone else stated, when you sit there waiting and the traffic in the other direction causes your vehicle to bounce up and down, you begin to contemplate the strength of the structure beneath you and the memory of the Mianus bridge incident plays heavy on your mind.

My point in all of this is for us to look to our lack of infrastructure maintenance before we jump to the conclusion that it must be terrorism. I'm not ruling out the latter, I'm only asking that we keep our powder dry until "we see the whites of their eyes".

Our enemies in this GWOT give us enough ammo without fabricating false premises to confront them.

633 hiker  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:40:41pm

Structural failure from what the radio is saying. 40 years of exposure to the elements (and anyone who lives north of I-80 knows what happens to concrete and steel when there is a freeze followed by a thaw followed by another freeze, etc. That, plus salting the road to melt ice can have a cumulative corrosive effect. Yikes.

634 grumpy old codger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:43:33pm

re: #619 Yankee Division Son

Francis Xavier McDermott, my uncle and godfather, died in 1969, after 23 years as a policeman in the city of Boston. At his funeral, three men showed up whom the family did not know. They said they were soldiers wounded in 1944 who were stuck between German-American lines in combst. My uncle, crawled out and retrieved them, despite heavy enemy fire. he received the silver star for heroism in rescuing these three soldiers. As i said above, all three showed up at his funeral and cried. They thanked his mother and his family for the life he had given them. My father, a CCC grad, pre-war US Army and 4 year vet of the south Pacific cried at my godfather's funeral. He said he was the finest man he ever knew.

635 storagemanager  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:56:21pm

re: #473 Mike C.

re: #400 storagemanager

Yeah - all I'm trying to do is contact my sister who lives there. I don't have time for your crap.

I wish you well and her...I mean that.

636 Yankee Division Son  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 6:57:00pm

re: #634 grumpy old codger

Whomever coined the title "the greatest generation" certianly got it right. When I learned about some of the things my dad somehow lived through, (he wouldn't talk about it hardly at all, would only tell you about the 'funny' stories, and then only with a few beers in him) I couldn't get my head around it. the Bulge for instance, just coudn't imagine.. but somehow he made it through..

Badly wounded once, (recovered returned to duty) bronze star recipient.

637 6pat6  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 7:00:07pm

Noam, Chen, and you other Minneapolites, it's good to hear you guys weren't there when it happened!

638 Maui Girl  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 7:03:02pm

re: #632 GeeWiz

Just talking with my husband about this very thing and he wondered whether or not they miscalculated the additional weight the recent overlay would have added along with the static created by the traffic going over the bridge.

639 jwbaumann  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 7:04:21pm

The cleanup on this is going to be major. It appears that more steel and concrete is involved than in the twin towers collapse.

But I can almost guarantee it will be open and beautiful in time for the Republican national convention here next year.

640 grumpy old codger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 7:07:23pm

re: #636 Yankee Division Son
I understand. Everyone, repeat EVERYONE of my uncles along with my mother, some of my aunts and some of my cousins served. I had cousins in the 101/82, uncle in the 26/usmc/usn, father in the usn, etc. there was a desire toserve. i've tried to instill this type of spirit into my children. I think i succeeded, partially. My biggest fear is that this sort of spirit no longer exists. That kids would rather sit around and play video games. I owe nothing to the old world and every thing to america for the opportunity she has given me. Here I could make my place versus taking my place. God Bless America and God save the Republic. I've done a little, but no where near what they offered up, because their contry asked them to. Compared to these men and women, I feel we are slackers. Compared to the current crop of "youths", with their attitudes, it's almost like we're from another world.

641 grumpy old codger  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 7:08:43pm

Signing off. Work in the AM.

642 PSawyer  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 7:14:38pm

Friend of mine used to work in that area and said a lot of homeless people lived under that bridge. I don't know if that is still true. Have not heard any mention of it yet on the local news.

643 Dasher  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 7:30:26pm

an old picture during construction [Link: www.startribune.com...]

644 Yankee Division Son  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 7:30:43pm

re: #640 grumpy old codger

I agree, but I wouldn't give up totally on the current gereration. My nephew (my dad's grandson) served in the Marines in Afganistan, and I've got a cousin in Iraq. All of my uncles served during ww2, army, navy, and marines.

We should chat in the lizard lounge sometime, (this isn't really the proper forum, especially this thread on the bridge collapse) but his name sounds very familiar to me, also the Boston area, where my dad eventually settled. Do you know what unit he was in?

645 pablito  Wed, Aug 1, 2007 11:43:48pm

I can't believe those damned Joooze are at it again.

First 9-11, then Darfur, and now this.


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