In America...

Turned off, or selectively edited after the fact?

BETCHYA,
R

There's a reason for calling them Krazy Kos Kidz. They simply hate America, can I say more?

Nine of 10 vets against the war?

Not buying it.

I'm confused. What is a "Kos Military Panel" ? Wouldn't that be like a "Hamas Bacon Festival" ? or a "Democratic Party Ethics Panel"? or a "Ms. Iran Bikini Pageant" ?

Killgore Trout will do anything for a Scooby Snack Klondike Bar hat tip.

/good find KT

Seriously, though, Charles, ever thought of keeping a sidebar link "lgf Hat Tip Hall of Fame"?

Can we question their patriotism yet?

He came off very smug.

OT - House "debating" funds for 35W reconstruction in Minneapolis (we all know it will pass by a wide margin).

Did anyone take note that this collapse occurred in Keith Hakim X. Ellison's district?

I had a comment disappear...

re: #9 jwbaumann

No, I hadn't! Did he submit the legislation, or did someone else from Minnesota do it?

Is it just me or is the video not working now? I had it before but refreshed the page so I could read the comments..

That retard panelist simply twists his pen and raises his eyebrows at the questioner for a whole minute while the audio is cut off. Wonder what the questioner actually said.
Must've been pretty persuasive, since the panelist completely disregarded it.
Then Weasely Clark says a whole lot of nothing, just to hear himself talk?

I hate to say it though - if the soldier was in uniform, he was against regs to be speaking in a political manner. That is a big no-no.

The soldier becomes a non-person, lefties are good at doing that, comes from long practice.

Shout down this Soldier you left-wing slime........

OK it's working now!

re: #7 AnotherRightWingConspirator

Can we question their patriotism yet?

Of course not. We can't question their partriotism, they can only question us. It's the wonderful Leftist mindset.

Remember, this is being held in McCormick Place, on the LEFT side of Lake Michigan. ;-)

re: #5 ornery elephant

I'm confused. What is a "Kos Military Panel" ?

It's like a Saudi sponsored Peace Konference

Bomb Iran

re: #10 JammieWearingFool

I had a comment disappear...

LGF burped. I had one stall in hamster hell.

Brown shirts.

The Kos military panelist hears an opinion from someone in the military, throws a hissy and leaves the room crying.

Why do they bother? Why not just pretend they had this meeting and everyone agreed with each other?

It would save time & money and embarrassing encounters with reality.

re: #7 AnotherRightWingConspirator

Can we question their patriotism yet?

WHAT patriotism?

/drive-by

Has anybody identified the moderator? Do we know if he is military or ex-military?

re: #14 MamaGeph

I hate to say it though - if the soldier was in uniform, he was against regs to be speaking in a political manner. That is a big no-no.

We've had a thread talking about that already. Check out the updates on this. ;)

re: #20 Honorary Yooper

re: #10 JammieWearingFool

I had a comment disappear...

LGF burped. I had one stall in hamster hell.

There's a 2:31 gap in comments. I question the timing.

re: #14 MamaGeph

Which reg, specifically?

Notice: when the moderator yells, "Hey! You want me to come down there?" in the background you can hear Wes Clark going, "oh... no..."

re: #14 MamaGeph

I hate to say it though - if the soldier was in uniform, he was against regs to be speaking in a political manner. That is a big no-no.

It's sad that saying the surge is working is considered political.

Does it make a difference whether YearlyKos is a public/private event, held on public/private property?

For shits and giggles, some of you Chicago-area Lizardoids ought to go down and wander around with some snarky signage.

I know this is a very creative bunch.

Oh, and record all activities.

Thank you Charles for these threads that give us an inside look at HOW the left supports the troops (NOT).

What I do not understand is the duplicity of the "Progressive" "community".

At the same time that they claim that the Troops are nothing but poor, uneducated saps....they hold them up as foreign policy experts!

So which one is it Progressives? Are they moronic saps without education that are not able to know they are getting "stuck" and "tricked" into joining the Armed Forces....or are they the smartest, most knowledgeable, foreign policy experts?

re: #26 JammieWearingFool

re: #20 Honorary Yooper

re: #10 JammieWearingFool

I had a comment disappear...

LGF burped. I had one stall in hamster hell.

There's a 2:31 gap in comments. I question the timing.

You know fire can't melt steel hamster cages.

/guinea pig troofer

re: #31 JammieWearingFool

For shits and giggles, some of you Chicago-area Lizardoids ought to go down and wander around with some snarky signage.

I know this is a very creative bunch.

Oh, and record all activities.

I've thought about it. Might be fun, even get some pics for Zombie's gallery of bumper stickers. If I have time.

#25 bosforus

Rats! There I go, popping off before I read all the way down!

This whole issue really struck me, since Mr. MG won't even let me borrow his pea coat to run to the store. He's a stickler for the letter of the law. Even when he owns the warmest jacket in the house. Big meanie.

This shit is hard to watch without destroying something i own.

Well, I think that if the sergeant did make a blatant political statement while wearing the uniform and violated military regulations, then he should be reprimanded appropriately.

That being said....who was that douchebag that told him to stand down? Is he acting military? Asking a Sergeant to 'step outside'? Hope he gets an asswhipin when he gets there. HIs response was completely unwarranted and uncalled for. Pompus ass, but what do you expect from a kos function.

re: #32 ploome hineni

I hate to say it but I believe he is an army officer.

Anyone else get the impression they knew he wasn't progressive?

Y'know, Wesley Clark could've taken the serviceman aside in private to express his views on the serviceman's comments.

But then he wouldn't be Wesley Clark.

re: #36 Honorary Yooper

Byron York attended last year, and some blog had photos.

I imagine someone has infiltrated and will be reporting. Honestly, I don't think I could take more than a couple hours of this idiocy.

is there any wonder that if it were 1933 50+% of koslings would have been loyal nazis.

This smug prick joined the military for the same reason beauchamp did. What really galls me is that he turns around and hides behind a code of conduct that he doesn't really respect and makes a mockery of every day of his miserable life.

re: #35 Honorary Yooper

You know fire can't melt steel hamster cages.

hahaha Yoop! now THAT's funny!

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Anyone else get the impression they knew he wasn't progressive?

Any chance this was a setup? Then again, they're not know for their dramatics.

re: #44 pegcity

I do not think they would have been nazis. T

They wouldnt' have joined the Nazi party but they would have been more than happy to explain to you why the Nazis have a "point" and why it probably WAS "partially" the Jews fault for the economic problems of Germany & that the Nazis have a legitamate cause, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah...

you can just feel the love they have for the military, cant you...

#27 rappmandu

I'd have to ask the hubby what the exact wording is - or you could read the previous post on all this that Charles wrote. Like I neglected to do at first. ;)

Essentially, if you are in uniform, you represent your entire branch of service. So it's ixnay on the public speaking unless you are in your civvies.

re: #21 FrogMarch

Brown shirts.

My thoughts exactly.

Moderator is Jon Soltz of votevets.org.
A Huffpo regular and former soldier.
No vet who cared would speak like that to another service menber. The guy is a joke.

And Wes Clark says NOTHING....What leadership skills!
perhaps he had swedish meatball from the brunch buffet stuck in his throat while Soltz proceeded to threaten and make sure the soldier asking the question "would never wear the uniform again"

Remember how Democrats ran several exmilitary folks for office last November--but ONLY if they were the right kind of exmilitary folks: Bush-bashing, get out of Iraq the quagmire, never use US force against bad guys, etc.

That's how Virginia ended up with Senator Jim Webb who used his military son's boots and his son's being in Iraq to bash President Bush and snubb the President himself. Classless trash & spawn of Djhimmi Carter, another exmilitary who hated the military and what the US military could do in defense of our country.

Selectively edited by the Captain, flipping his mic button on and off.

"His uniform?"

Mofo. That uniform belongs to the United States Army, not Captain whathisname, or retired General Clarke.

Tell ya what Captain Whathisname, how about I ask you the exact same questions that Sargent did, you gonna censor me? Tell me to "stand down?"

I'll tell you to fuck off and onstantly find a thousand of your peers to indirectly back me up.

Captain, your career advancement opportunities are now on the line. That pen twirling display of yours speaks volumes about how you treat the men and women under your command. No wonder Clarke likes you.

Oh, and Captain...The Surge is working, how's it feel to be so very wrong about that?

NOW,
R

re: #41 Killgore Trout

I got the impression the moderator knew who it was.

Too silly for words.

UN staff in Congo hurt in 'hate speech' attack

re: #37 MamaGeph

come to phoenix, you'll never need a jacket again.

re: #47 rappmandu

The whole thing is kind of odd.

The moderator seemed VERY threatening.

Notice they didn't clap when he said 9 out of 10 vets opposed the war, because even the Krazy Kos Kids knew he was bullshitin.

re: #50 MamaGeph

#27 rappmandu

I'd have to ask the hubby what the exact wording is - or you could read the previous post on all this that Charles wrote. Like I neglected to do at first. ;)

Essentially, if you are in uniform, you represent your entire branch of service. So it's ixnay on the public speaking unless you are in your civvies.

I think this is the precise language regarding regs on uniformed conduct:

3.1. The wearing of the uniform by members of the Armed Forces (including retired members and members of Reserve components) is prohibited under any of the following circumstances:...
3.1.2. During or in connection with furthering political activities, private employment or commercial interests, when an inference of official sponsorship for the activity or interest may be drawn.
3.1.3. Except when authorized by the approval authorities in subparagraph 4.1.1., when participating in activities such as unofficial public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies or any public demonstration, which may imply Service sanction of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted

is that a sigh of relief that i hear coming from the jetblue HQ?

re: #54 Render

That pen twirling display of yours speaks volumes about how you treat the men and women under your command. No wonder Clarke likes you.

Touche!

I can't see YearlyKos allowing anyone in uniform in the door without first knowing (planning?) in advance exactly what that serviceman will say.

Wesley Clark what're you doing at this sort of nutfest- Have some dignity for G-d's sake man!

re: #61 dcbatlle

I'm not a vet, so maybe a LGF'r who was one could correct me if I am wrong here, BUT....isn't it pretty standard for "grunt" soldiers to "hate their war", want to go home, complain about the leadership, etc?

You don't fight wars because you like it....you fight wars because you have to.

Such selfish arrogance of my generation!

re: #28 Charles

Clark was obviously trying to cover for the moderator's snippy attitude - and I'm sure he did it well enough for the gathered Koslings.

re: #66 Logan

he left his dignity by the way side long ago.....

re: #67 WrathofG-d

It reminds me of when people are labeled pro-war.
That's a misnomer if I've ever seen one.

re: #14 MamaGeph

I hate to say it though - if the soldier was in uniform, he was against regs to be speaking in a political manner. That is a big no-no.

Yeah, but it was smokescreen. If he went negative on the military, in uniform, they would have given him the floor for hours.

Instead, his speech was not what they wanted to hear, so they start quoting the regs.

I call BS.

re: #57 bosforus
Nope nope nope. Spent a year in San Diego, and it was way too hot there. I would perish in AZ. Plus, Mr. MG would have a hard time finding a duty station there - Phoenix is sadly lacking in ships...

I suspect a plant. Wonder what the cue was, if any.

re: #71 markx

Who are they kidding,
I'd bet all I own that it would've been a standing ovation had he gotten up to criticize the war or the Bush administration.

re: #43 JammieWearingFool

re: #36 Honorary Yooper

Byron York attended last year, and some blog had photos.

I imagine someone has infiltrated and will be reporting. Honestly, I don't think I could take more than a couple hours of this idiocy.

Wasn't that when they had their party to make tin foil hats? Seriously.

Where are they getting this 35% of veterans support the war.
What bogus poll is that from?

Beyond parody.

On the road with journalist Spicoli

"I'm going to write. I'm here as a journalist," Penn told The Associated Press. "So I'm not going to give quotes to anyone. But I'm having a great trip, very interesting.

re: #52 186kps

I'm pretty sure I've seen Vote Vets in uniform giving speeches in uniform with Cindy Sheehan at a rally in DC early this spring.

The Sargent shouldn't have made any political comments. It's against military regulations.

At the same time the Military panel moderator shouldn't have been so aggressive right off the start. He went from 0 to 100 on the pissy cry baby scale in 1 second.

But ya, does anyone know who the moderator is?

re: #55 Charles

Interesting theory.

If the dissenter was a plant, would the purpose be to illustrate their respect for military regulations?

I just can't get over the moderator just utter distain having to listen to someone with an opposite view then his- just watch his face and body language when the combat Vet is muted out

re: #72 MamaGeph

we have plenty of friendships! awwww

Did he just tell Wesley Clark to "stand down"?

re: #75 SeafoodGumbo

Wasn't that when they had their party to make tin foil hats? Seriously.

Yes. Come to think of it, I think Malkin was either getting reports and photos from someone, or was linking another site.

Someone's suggesting that the surge is working?!

OMG! Shut off his mike. SHUT OFF HIS MIKE NOW!

re: #85 Logan

Did he just tell Wesley Clark to "stand down"?

I don't think so, I think he was talking to the speaker.

re: #70 Logan

Interesting that you say that. This exactly topic has been a huge problem for me for a while. As you stated, by labeling themselves "Anti-War" (which they aren't as they advocate for the Islamists, Che, Chavez, and Castro and armed revolution within the U.S.), those that support our country (ie: patriots maybe?) are automatically labeled "pro-war" as if we are all war mongering, violence loving, blood drinking animals.

I support our troops, love my country, support my countries decision to liberate Iraq from Saddam...but I am by no means "Pro-War". War sucks! Its horrible. People die, are mamed, or worse!

I would much prefer if we never had a war again. But I'm also not a kool-aid drinking, willingly raped pacifist! If one decides to threaten me, my family, my country, or my people, you are darn sure that I support my self-defense, etc.

Like I said....Americans don't fight wars because they like them....they fight wars because they have to.

re: #81 Killgore Trout

The way he just cops an attitude instantly, seems like maybe he's been challenged by this soldier before.

re: #87 Geepers

Someone's suggesting that the surge is working?!

OMG! Shut off his mike. SHUT OFF HIS MIKE NOW!

Don't forget, only KOS-think speech is free.

re: #71 markx
True, total BS.

But the rules are still the rules. Even when they're coming out of the south end of a baboon. The soldier should have left his uniform at home...perhaps he's a young'un who doesn't know any better.

Duke faculty should be shunned by students

He means the "gang of 88," who signed an outrageous manifesto supporting the presumed guilt of the Lacrosse players, not the entire faculty.

This is a wake-up call, graphically illustrating the totalitarian standards of evidence and due process that would prevail if the far-left ever achieves real power.

re: #88 markx

What a condescending prick.
Can I say that?

re: #75 SeafoodGumbo

re: #43 JammieWearingFool

re: #36 Honorary Yooper

Byron York attended last year, and some blog had photos.

I imagine someone has infiltrated and will be reporting. Honestly, I don't think I could take more than a couple hours of this idiocy.

Wasn't that when they had their party to make tin foil hats? Seriously.

Here's the tinfoil hat crowd from when AllahPundit infiltrated YearlyKos last year.

SeafoodGumbo,

I laughed when Dennis Prager asked incredulously, "You're name is SeafoodGumbo"?

Really glad I was there to hear it.

Jerks!

Hot Air dispatch from 2006.

Did Welsey Clark regale the crowd with tales of jewish money men and other zionist conspiracies?

re: #89 WrathofG-d

Agreed.
The implication is that we want war, we prefer war, and that we want war to continue. Which is absolutely not the case.
We're all anti-war, the same way we're all anti-murder.

Reminds me of the label "pro-choice" which I disagree with, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms..

re: #93 MamaGeph

re: #71 markx
True, total BS.

But the rules are still the rules. Even when they're coming out of the south end of a baboon. The soldier should have left his uniform at home...perhaps he's a young'un who doesn't know any better.

Yeah, I know.

Just sayin'.

(His heart was in the right place, even if his head wasn't.)
*sigh*

re: #84 bosforus

re: #72 MamaGeph

we have plenty of friendships! awwww

Guffaw!

Viva Kos Vegas

So the same people that carry signs saying that they only support their troops when they are "fragging their officers" and those that encourage the troops to disobey orders are now the guardians of the MCOJ & DOD regulations?

/ h e a d is s p i n n i n g!

Which would have more sizzle: yet another serviceman in uniform speaking against the war, or a "pro-surge" serviceman ambushing the proceedings, followed by a moderator freak-out and shout-down?

Absent followup with the serviceman himself, I remain skeptical. And, if Koslings haven't already identified him and posted everything they can find/think up on him so they can go after him, then said followup would be difficult.

re: #91 Charles

Also note that the moderator says "I want the name of your unit and your First Sargent." It might be safe to assume he already knows the soldier's name because he doesn't ask for it.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the problem seems to be that the soldier was in uniform and the event was political in nature. If the soldier was not in uniform, no problem.

In the area where I live, I have seen officers in uniform address the Rotary Club or some such about the war. No problem because they are addressing a non-political gathering. If an oficer in uniform was to make the same speech at a Republican Party gathering, big problem.

Am I wrong here?

Hell yea, I want you to come down here--PLEASE COME!

If this has been posted--SORRY

re: #93 MamaGeph

Another angle to look at this...the rules suggest it is against policy to speak at a PUBLIC gathering while in uniform. Now, considering this is a crowd of Koslings who are more closely related to the flying monkeys in Wizard of Oz than human beings, this technically could be viewed as not "public" speaking, yes?

OT in good news today, the UN is going to step up to the plate in Iraq...moonbats heads will explode, or another UN Food for Oil scandal will happen.

Our UN Ambassador Zal Khalilzad's working on this, and just doing his part to make liberal America feel better by sending in the UN now that the surge is working.

That's right, the US Military making the world safe for the UNniks to help Iraq.

Non-political: "The surge is working."

Wait! If the surge is working... If things are looking better... then... then...Bushitler was right!

Now-Political: "The surge is working."

re: #101 Logan

Well you know what they say: Those that control the terminology control the debate.

re: #95 Logan

re: #88 markx

What a condescending prick.
Can I say that?

Yes, be my guest.

(I'd like to say worst, but I'm in a self-censor mode)

He wasn't making a speech. He was at an open panel, asking a question like any other member of the audience.

Lizards! These are the Butterfly's logic we face!

re: #91 Charles

Odds that there was a confrontation prior to the panel starting?

Perhaps the Captain, (is that Stoltz? He is retired, isn't he?), and/or Clarke, saw the uniform prior to the panel and went right to it, like a moth to a flame.

BZRAAP,
R

markx (#71),

Yeah, but it was smokescreen. If he went negative on the military, in uniform, they would have given him the floor for hours.

Instead, his speech was not what they wanted to hear, so they start quoting the regs.

I call BS.

What?! You don't remember all the LLLs who after the Scott Beauchamp story broke immediately started saying: "Well if these things did happen the way you said they did it was your duty under the UCMJ to report them?

I vote plant, hoping I'm wrong.

re: #97 meMarc

SeafoodGumbo,

I laughed when Dennis Prager asked incredulously, "You're name is SeafoodGumbo"?

Really glad I was there to hear it.

That was indeed a great moment. I knew by Prager's breif hesitation that he was about to announce a lizardoid name. Well done, Gumbo.

For a minute there, I thought the Congress had reconvened.

addendum to #111 for moonbats to read & weep or jump for joy: The UN is Coming, the UN is Coming

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

UN Set to take Heavy Hand in Iraq

re: #110 ornery elephantAha! You have found the loophole!

Regs don't say anything about speaking amongst inferior, half-witted, moonshine-swilling Hun-creatures from Oz. Wonder if that'll stand up in court?

It is excruciating having to listen to these "progressives".

I'm just guessing here, but I'm thinking they would have let that lying S-O-B, Beuchamp spew his fiction, and it would have been argued that his speech wasn't a "political", but a "moral" issue.

Is it possible that he received proper permission to attend in uniform from his superiors?

re: #16 Atman

Shout down this Soldier you left-wing slime........

That video was awesome.

I got the impression the moderator was an arrogant p@#*!...probably trying to impress Wesley Clark. What a jerk!

re: #91 Charles

re: #81 Killgore Trout

The way he just cops an attitude instantly, seems like maybe he's been challenged by this soldier before.

Here's a Marine protesting in Uniform Anti-War Rally in Washington D.C.

No leftist complaints.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed but every bloody General or Admiral that retires from the Army, Navy, Marines or Air Force all of a sudden undergoes this metamorphisis from being a dedicated soldier or leader intent on getting things accomplished to some sort of a philosopher and individual think tank. Why is it that all of them seem to have this "need" to be an expert on thought? I mean, it would be like a President, you know...like Jimmy Carter...lingering on and on and on after his service, pretending to be an expert on the Middle East and sticking his nose into it all and claiming to be an expert on things like Hamas and....oh wait.....ummm...... nevermind.

Charles...

WTF?

had to bring out the hamster defibrillator for that one

CHARLES

OT!

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Police raid bakery investigated by slain editor
Officials nab 19; operation reportedly connected to Oakland killing

MSNBC video
Bakery raid connected to journalist's murder
Aug. 3: Police in Oakland, Calif., say a bakery they raided Friday morning is connected to the brazen assassination of a local newspaper editor.

OAKLAND, Calif. - Police conducted a series of raids early Friday, including one on a bakery that was the subject of coverage by a journalist slain in a brazen shooting a day earlier.

Hello...
...hello
.....hello.
Anybody home?

If dissent is the greatest form of patriotism in the bizarro world inhabited by the Left, then slandering a soldier is the greatest form of supporting the troops.

The lost hour?

Yeah, we are back :)

Semi-related -- Beauchampian Prose

re: #134 bosforus

had to bring out the hamster defibrillator for that one

Really!

Aug. 3: Police in Oakland, Calif., say a bakery they raided Friday morning is connected to the brazen assassination of a local newspaper editor.

re: #135 Ginn

It's already a thread.

/scroll down

Nothing new under the sun.

Stolen Valor : How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of Its Heroes and Its History

Who drop-kicked the hampster cage?

re: #57 bosforus

re: #37 MamaGeph

come to phoenix, you'll never need a jacket again.

yeah MamaGeph, come to phoenix. It's wonderful here. We've been having a great monsoon season this year.

bosforus - we might be neighbors! you should visit the lounge and we can discuss.

as i was watching the kook convention on the live stream after the soldier dustup, i heard someone allege that because the Bush administration was actually investigating complaints of white voter disenfranchisement, that this was quite a change in priorities or some such bullshiite. They might as well have come right out and said the Bush admin is racist. Wouldn't be the first time.

re: #143 Killian Bundy

re: #135 Ginn

It's already a thread.

/scroll down

Killian.. I know

But now they're connecting the murder of an investigative journalist and editor who was "shot down" yesterday.

re: #129 PeaceBeUponHim
It's a good one to pass on.......
Here's one on soldier atrocities.........

OT

Update from Minneapolis:

Getting worse........the injured toll now is recalculated at 111 instead of 79; there have been sighted 60 or more cars in the water; the divers are going down two at a time, tied to the recovery boat.....30 minutes for each team of two; the debris is still falling into the water; the whirlpools are increasing in wildness.

They have seen at least 9 bodies in the vehicles that they are trying, futilely so far, to reach.

That canoe builder I met at the river last night, the co-worker with the trucker whose UPI semi fell off the bridge, was giving me all the exact measurements of water, obstacles, and up and down force....then he made the description of what sounded like air being disturbed by an airplane wing, and I told him I was a pilot, and he said then I knew more than he, on why the water is so disturbed....and THAT helped put it in perspective for me....

Stand down...dont make me come over there and take you outside and make you watch loose change 3 times in a row dammit

re: #146 Kirly

re: #57 bosforusyeah MamaGeph, come to phoenix. It's wonderful here. We've been having a great monsoon season this year.

Naw, I've got enough rain up here in WA. And it rarely gets above the 80's. My mossy self wouldn't know how to function in the furnace that is AZ.

Sheesh the Kos Kidz Fascists muted the soldier's question.

They'll never in a million years comprehend the irony...

re: #151 MamaGeph

to be honest with you, i'm not much of a fan of the heat myself.

re: #5 ornery elephant

I'm confused. What is a "Kos Military Panel" ? Wouldn't that be like a "Hamas Bacon Festival" ? or a "Democratic Party Ethics Panel"? or a "Ms. Iran Bikini Pageant" ?

How many of this Kos Military panel have DD-214's, Hanoi John Kerry pulled that one, most of his so called VVAW vets never set foot in Vietnam. It was disclosed that Al Hubbard head of VVAW claimed to have been an Air Force Officer and a pilot. After a records check on Al Hubbard, USAF records showed that he was not an officer, nor was he ever in Vietnam.

I looked at the video -- it looked to me more like a former captain pulling rank on a former sergeant than an ideological-fascist thing.

But still, what is Wesley Clark, a former general, doing with the KOS jerks?

re: #156 Mardukhai
He's a jerk too.....
/...birds of a feather....

When the moderator (who seems to be Jon Soltz) yells “HEY! You want me to come down there?” you can faintly hear Wesley Clark in the background saying, “oh... no...”

I can sympathize with General Clark's sentiment but at the same time must smile to myself at his quandary.

Plus the Irish in me always wants to rise to a challenge like that "Hey"
malarkey - especially when it's totally uncalled for. I'm glad the serviceman in the audience was focused on what he wanted to say.

re: #155 ploome hineni

prepare the pigs for takeoff...

Not really -- there are no sanctions, it's just a finger-wagging so the UN can maintain a posture of "we're taking action" when they intend to do absolutely nothing.

I respect the fact this guy was in the fray, in Iraq, hence I support his ability to decide his position now that I suspect he is out of the military.

What irks the living hell out of me, is the fact him, and groups like his who carry the high and mighty banner of legitimacy via veteran status do not get this vocal for the posers who have no right to use the uniform, are in uniform under pseudonyms acting as reporters, and the rest.

First question?

Is he still in the military?

If so, why is he there?

If not, WHO THE FUCK IS HE TO SAY HE WILL COME DOWN AND DISCUSS THIS WITH SOMEONE WHO IS, ACTING AS IF HE IS STILL HOLDING RANK OVER THIS GUY?

I WANT SOME FUCKING ANSWERS.

I don't know if anyone's brought this up yet, but I found it via Michelle Malkin:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Kos' double-standard is unsurprising.

re: #158 Atman

I just wish that the soldier had worn civilian clothes and simply identified himself by name, rank, and unit. It would have been more suitable to a political setting. Soldiers shouldn't politik in any way while in uniform.

Judgment Day must be nigh, and I hate to differ with others here, but I have to defend the Kos moderator, who I thought acted in a surprisingly professional and even patriotic manner. (Never thought I'd type those words.) Even Clark came off favorably, I think.

The moderator made clear that he didn't want opinions from someone in uniform, whether for or against the war. The military takes a dim view of political activity by its members generally, and especially those in uniform. It's also important to maintain a firewall between the military and political activity (to avoid the banana republic effect), and any politicization of the military undermines that firewall.

Clark's point re MacArthur was also appropriate. So, much to my astonishment, I think the Kos panel came off well.

re: #164 Occam's Beard

You have to be kidding.

This will not bode well for them.

Again, is the Smoltz guy still connected with the service?

re: #165 formercorpsman

Nope. I don't mean the panel discussion (which frankly I skipped), but rather the bit with the soldier in the audience.

Someone may have posted this on the other thread already, but...

Jon Soltz is a leader of the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans community and is originally from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. From May to September 2003, Soltz served as a Captain during Operation Iraqi Freedom, deploying logistics convoys with the 1st Armored Division. During 2005, Soltz was mobilized for 365 days at Fort Dix New Jersey, training soldiers for combat in Afghanistan and Iraq. He also served his country with distinction in the Kosovo Campaign as a Tank Platoon Leader between June and December 2000. Soltz is a graduate of Washington & Jefferson College with dual degree in Political Science and History. He has completed graduate work at the University of Pittsburgh Graduate School of Public and International Affairs.

Jon Soltz has quickly become one of the most authoritative voices on veterans issues and military issues. He has been interviewed by national outlets such as the Associated Press, Washington Post, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, TIME, Newsweek, among others, and in dozens of local outlets. He has made numerous media appearances including Jim Lehrer’s Newshour on PBS, CNN. MSNBC, FOX News and ABC News and Nightline, and national radio programs including Air America Radio, the Ed Schultz Show, the Bill Press Show, Alan Colmes Show, and Mancow in the Morning. Jon is a frequent contributor to Countdown with Keith Olbermann.

[Link: www.votevets.org...]

the ass speaking at the beginning is none other than josh lansdale, famous for telling lies about being cast aside by the va on behalf of claire mccaskill.

[Link: gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...]

the republlican congressman he's talking about is mark kirk: a navy vet and combat veteran of kosovo aand the first gulf war. though we know this doesn't matter to the screeching diet-maoists at dkos, he's a pro-gay-marriage, pro-gun-control, abortion moderate who voted against the suurge and supports a phased withdrawl.

so, the bs is hip deep from the first moments of the video. and get's about a mile deep as clark admonishes us that politics are something military folk should stay out of.

re: #23 MandyManners

re: #7 AnotherRightWingConspirator

Can we question their patriotism yet?

WHAT patriotism?

/drive-by

Why, to America's enemies, of course. The left has been against America for many years. That soldier was simply following his oath to protect the Constitution from all enemies, foriegn and DOMESTIC.

I guess this is why the Democrats don't want members of the military to VOTE, too.

Thomas Scott Beauchamp is ok to these Kos people when he smears the troops (false but true), not only while in uniform, but while deployed. But this retired capt and Gen. Clark (who led the chucking of bombs from 15k feet onto civilians) does have a problem with a man in uniform simply saying that he thinks the surge is working and asking a question?

Please note that people who chuck bombs from 15k feet care *only* about avoiding U.S. casualties, not about civilians. God bless the U.S. military (and IDF, for that matter) for their focus on ground pounding work to try to sort the chaff from the wheat and better the lives of the civilian populations.

re: #156 Mardukhai

Wes Clark is one of the sorriest excuses for an officer and a gentleman who ever crapped between a pair of Army boots, and is becoming the Jimmah of retired generals. Condescending a$$hole.

*spit*

re: #39 Sponge

Well, I think that if the sergeant did make a blatant political statement while wearing the uniform and violated military regulations, then he should be reprimanded appropriately.

That being said....who was that douchebag that told him to stand down? Is he acting military? Asking a Sergeant to 'step outside'? Hope he gets an asswhipin when he gets there. HIs response was completely unwarranted and uncalled for. Pompus ass, but what do you expect from a kos function.

Is stating that the surge is working now considered a political statement, now? If that's so, then doesn't that mean that Kos has to follow campaign finance regs?

Charles

Thanks for doing all you do so that we can be informed.

I don't think we say that often enough.

re: #28 Charles

They may have killed the mic to save themselves.

Just my opinion, but I feel if the soldier in question had stood up and railed against the war, he could still be talking if he wanted to hold the floor, and would be lauded as a brave young man speaking truth to power.

re: #163 Mardukhai
I tend to agree. The follow-up will be interesting.....

What a bunch of predictable morons those Kos kids are. My crap has a higher IQ than that collective. "Screw them" says I.

re: #166 Occam's Beard

The problem, as I already know it, is the fact this soldier might have been in the audience, and the potential ramifications of violating conduct.

Whether he is in real violation, I don't know, but I am comfortable with the military deciding this.

What this will do, is place someone who is at the table of a ferociously anti-war group, who now have a reputation of being labeled with Screw-em, and pandering for the photo-op with vets, Iraq status or not, in order to boost the legitimacy of their position. By contrast, he is now threatening the very same person, be it, if they had a difference of opinion, he would be pimping for his organization.

Let's get real, he is with votevets, I don't think he is looking for anti-war rotary club, bridge playing grandmothers for his cause.

I never heard of this guy before, but after watching that exchange, he surely reminds of the very few smug, pomp ass bastards that anyone who wore a uniform has come in contact with.

Trust me. When you are in it together, you will die for each other. Now that this guy is on my radar, I have looked at some of what he has been involved with. He has aligned himself with some very dirty players, and this is going to bite him on the ass.

Double fucking standers. Again, don't take this as me not seeing the guy in uniform as possibly violating standing orders.

This was a gross display of arrogance.

you can faintly hear Wesley Clark in the background saying, “oh... no...”

He was thinking "Oh..no. This twit sitting next to me is going to blow our cover."

re: #161 formercorpsman

I respect the fact this guy was in the fray, in Iraq, hence I support his ability to decide his position now that I suspect he is out of the military.

What irks the living hell out of me, is the fact him, and groups like his who carry the high and mighty banner of legitimacy via veteran status do not get this vocal for the posers who have no right to use the uniform, are in uniform under pseudonyms acting as reporters, and the rest.

First question?

Is he still in the military?

If so, why is he there?

If not, WHO THE FUCK IS HE TO SAY HE WILL COME DOWN AND DISCUSS THIS WITH SOMEONE WHO IS, ACTING AS IF HE IS STILL HOLDING RANK OVER THIS GUY?

I WANT SOME FUCKING ANSWERS.

Same here, a Vietnam/Desert Shield/Desert Storm Veteran

I'm just curious about something. What are the odd that ol' John Soltz was showing a lil' bit o' rhoid rage up there? Oh wait. Sorry. I meant 'Roid Rage. Hmm. On second thought, that guy was such as ass that I think my first diagnosis was more correct.

Oh...and for what it's worth, I kind of hope that once they got 'outside'...the military guy asking the questions was able to give ol' Solzy a super colonic with that pen he was twirling so mightily.

re: #176 HDrepub

Just my opinion, but I feel if the soldier in question had stood up and railed against the war, he could still be talking if he wanted to hold the floor, and would be lauded as a brave young man speaking truth to power.

They would have hailed him as a hero, and everyone would have wanted a photograph with him.

Cocksuckers.

I think you can tell, this is the shit that gets me hot.

re: #183 formercorpsman

Ditto for me.

Military policy and the fracas between the soldier and Soltz has been discussed thoroughly so I won't comment on that.

What I'd like to point is the self-importance of the whole panel. Here you have 5 people address a crowd, all very presentable, serious and thoughtful for 45 minutes about what must be done. When the fact of the matter is the whole thing is nothing but a dog and pony show. Nobody that has any impact on national policy listened or even cares what they say. It was just 45 minutes of digressive talk to make themselves feel important and accomplished absolutely nothing.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I am reading, this guy worked on both Clark's and Kerry's campaigns for Pennsylvania.

Was he still in the Reserves at this time?

#164 Occam's Beard
It's also important to maintain a firewall between the military and political activity (to avoid the banana republic effect), and any politicization of the military undermines that firewall.

Totally disagree with the logic and assumptions of that statement. Particularly with the reality of the US military structure and civilian leadership of it.
Coups occur in countries because there is no stable mechanism in place for an orderly transfer of power through elections or hereditary itary transfers. The dictator sets himself up for life - all elections become closed or simply theatre so there is simply no legal means by which the political desires/needs are dealt with. The tensions become enormous.
Free speech curbs during war so that the enemy not gain valuable information or to undermine the troops' morale is sensible. Not allowing a soldier to rise to challenge a number of statements that in fact aid the enemy and destroy troop morale is politically motivated muzzling of that man.

Yes but these assholes are the first to pimp anyone in the military who agrees with their point of view, and then expect the rules should apply to them.

Looks to me like KKKos and our "brave" moderator are disciples of that good old Joe McCarthy gospel religion. I guess they decided he was a hero after all?

No wonder John Edwards is so popular with the libs - they share a common bond called hypocrisy.

It also appears this guy is behind pushing the Tillman stuff we are hearing about now.

re: #175 SouthTexas

re: #175 SouthTexas

re: #28 Charles

They may have killed the mic to save themselves.

Exactly! Because if they could have used whatever the soldier said against him they would have....but they didn't. I do not think the soldier was in violation. He was making a statement from the audience; not the platform. He probably asked a question too...which means; someone in uniform can't ask a question and state the surge is working.

[Link: profile.myspace.com...]

His myspace page.

To the right, in the about me section:

Jon VoteVets.org's Blurbs
About me:
Hi, my name is Jon Soltz. I'm in the Army and served in Iraq. Now I'm in NYC, working to help get Troops and Veterans the help they need.
I think most people would describe me as energetic, a doer, and friendly to pretty much anyone I meet. I love to listen to different people and learn from them.

Boy they are really putting the C**t back in "Our Country", there.

Unbelievable, that Captain Smug came across as a real bona fide tool. Body language experts would have a field day deciphering him during those few minutes. I love how they simply erased the soldier's voice. Wow, I just hate that Captain Smug guy and I respect the military.

re: #192 formercorpsman

Somehow he didn't seem that friendly .

From what I can tell, he was a Captain.

Did he resign his commission?

re: #192 formercorpsman

[Link: profile.myspace.com...]

His myspace page.

To the right, in the about me section:

Jon VoteVets.org's Blurbs
About me:
Hi, my name is Jon Soltz. I'm in the Army and served in Iraq. Now I'm in NYC, working to help get Troops and Veterans the help they need.
I think most people would describe me as energetic, a doer, and friendly to pretty much anyone I meet. I love to listen to different those people and learn from them.who agree with me and my ideals.

re: #191 Suzette

Whether it's a violation or not is not up to some KosKid to decide anyway.

The military has our backs overseas, I, for one, will have their backs when they are home.

As usual, it's always the liberals who try to limit free speech.

I'd like to take that knucklehead behind the table outside and box his ears...

re: #198 SouthTexas

I agree South Texas with you.
BTW South Louisana here! :)

For those who missed this link; this is what it's all about....
/...screw Kos....

The more I think about this, the angrier I get.

Had I been consulted, I would have suggested to the SGT he not go in uniform, it was a matter of poor judgment, to walk into a storm carrying a lightning rod, that said;

CPT Soltz wouldn't know if the question were political or not until it had been asked. Instead, he sat up on his stage and used his commission to bully prior restraint on a Soldier.

And even if the question were political, that is not "engaging in politics, which has generally been interpreted to mean running for office or campaigning. Attending a political event is not included and if it were, the CPT would have been setting the SGT up for failure by not turning him out when he first showed up at the event.

The CPT is welcome to come have a "CPT to SGT" talk with me anytime he likes. If the SGT here didn't teach him what a real NCO is like, I think I can manage.

He's out of line and is misusing the regs for his own political purposes.

The CPT is a partisan hack using his military service as a shield from criticism. Period.

I am dead serious.

I respect he served, and he has a right to his opinion, but his treatment of that soldier, and his conduct in the room, amongst other people is pretty unbecoming.

I really want to know if this guy is still in the reserves.

If so, what the heel is he doing, running around with Wesley Clark?

I stinks of impropriety to me.

re: #201 Atman

That's beautiful.

re: #200 Suzette

Probably a good thing we are a long way from Kosville, eh neighbor?

re: #203 formercorpsman

Again agree ....why did he treat a soldier so badly?
Maybe his true colors were showing?
As for free speech again agree he can say whatever he wants.
His poor treatment of the soldier must show what type of
Capt. he was......

re: #205 SouthTexas

No kidding! That kind of crap doesn't float here!
I have no patience with it and not many people I know
do either.

re: #203 formercorpsman

If so, what the heel is he doing, running around with Wesley Clark?

I stinks of impropriety to me.

Let me see, trying to emulate one of his heroes, like John Kerry winter soldiering?

That YearlyKos moderator seemed to be completely infuriated, and instead of being polite and thanking the sergeant for his service, as is usually done when somebody in the service is in an interview, he began threatening him. Very poor manners. I think that it showed his basic hostility toward somebody in military service, and his basic hostility toward anybody who wishes to present some good news when the moderator only wanted to hear bad news about the war.

Too bad that the Dems want to be associated with such a rude, intolerant, hateful, anti-service, threatening and undemocratic person as that YearlyKos moderator.

re: #203 formercorpsman

I'm assuming that he's in IRR now but don't know. No sign of a resignation, so far. Don't know when he did his grad work, either, but it might've been last couple of years.

re: #204 JimAsh
Sometimes the threads are so fast, folks miss a good link.....

Once again the lunacy of the cowards around us requires us to remind the libs just how far they've fallen. Here's an excerpt from a radio address FDR made just a few months after Pearl Harbor, in the darkest days of WW2:

"...This is war. The American people want to know, and will be told, the general trend of how the war is going. But they do not wish to help the enemy any more than our fighting forces do, and they will pay little attention to the rumor-mongers and the poison peddlers in our midst.

We have most certainly suffered losses -- and we shall suffer more of them before the turn of the tide. But, speaking for the United States of America, let me say once and for all to the people of the world: We Americans have been compelled to yield ground, but we will regain it. ...Soon, we and not our enemies, will have the offensive; we, not they, will win the final battles; and we, not they, will make the final peace.

...we have been described as a nation of weaklings -- "playboys" -- who would hire British soldiers, or Russian soldiers, or Chinese soldiers to do our fighting for us.

Let them repeat that now!
Let them tell that to General MacArthur and his men.
Let them tell that to the sailors who today are hitting hard in the far waters of the Pacific.
Let them tell that to the boys in the Flying Fortresses.
Let them tell that to the Marines!

Quoting Tom Paine, FDR said,
"The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman...
So spoke Americans in the year 1776.
So speak Americans today! "

How long would these cowards have survived on the beach at Jamestown with winter coming and the wilderness closing in? How long would they have been tolerated?

How long would they survive under the ROP?

God Bless the Troops, we need you.

The moderator is a prick. If he can't tell the difference between a Captain and an NCO uniform, well, if this jerkoff actually IS a veteran, there is probably a reason why he's not active-duty these days. If that swarmy jackass ever acted that way in any squadron I was ever in, he'd be taken out back and had his little attitude changed in a minute!

More power to the (presumably Army) Captain in the audience!

re: #209 EE

Too bad that the Dems want to be associated with such a rude, intolerant, hateful, anti-service, threatening and undemocratic person as that YearlyKos moderator.

The Dems will associate with anyone who has BDS. It's all about getting Bush and the Republicans, and to hell with our security.

re: #202 RTO Trainer

He's out of line and is misusing the regs for his own political purposes.

The CPT is a partisan hack using his military service as a shield from criticism. Period.

And that constitutes an A val. The Captain (Reserve, I assume) was way out of line with his remarks and pseudo-threats. If he is still in the Reserves, he needs a little footlocker counseling himself.

So the lefties want the rules to be that you can protest the war in uniform (weather or not you're still serving) but you can't ask political questions that they disagree with while in uniform?

Kind of like how you they can accuse the president of lying and killing thousands but we can't question their patriotism.

Yeah....um....I don't like these rules.

re: #215 Outrider

If he is still in the Reserves, he needs a little footlocker counseling himself.

He needs a good blanket party, and then sing him a hymn, "him, him, f*ck him"

I hit the video link a few times but still not working.

re: #216 29Victor

Oh I question and have come to the conclusion the only thing
they are patriotic to is there own selves. Narcisstic. Think of no
one but their own opinions ...and how dare anyone refute that!

The KO's apparently did not initially seem concerned that he was there in uniform; giving his presence provided them with a sense of legitimacy and support for their views. (Yet on their website they complain about service members being shown with their Commander in Chief and call it a political statement). AHHH but let him ask pointed questions " and since it has been edited out we do not know if it was political," then he is making a political statement because they do not agree.

The "Captain" was trying to intimidate the Soldier. In my opinion abusing his commission as an officer because of his interpretation of the soldiers question or statement that the surge was working and cutting casualties.

If he did make a political statement then he was wrong to do so but it is NOT his call as to the disciplinary action to soldier. It is the soldiers Commanding Officer. I for one would rip the "Captain" a new a&%^& for using his rank in a political function to quell what may have been a legitimate question he just did not like once I had all the facts. He needs to remember the Constitution he took an oath to is the same one the SGT and I did.

My two cents from a US ARMY LTC (Ret)

Well, as I am posting, I am searching as well.

A common theme I keep seeing with my querie, is between, Clark, Body Armor, Pennsylvania, Murtha, Votevets, etc.

re: #187 wanumba

Free speech curbs during war so that the enemy not gain valuable information or to undermine the troops' morale is sensible. Not allowing a soldier to rise to challenge a number of statements that in fact aid the enemy and destroy troop morale is politically motivated muzzling of that man.

The soldier absolutely has that right. Just not in uniform.
I see no problem with that.

I know of no civilian companies that would want their company uniform worn by speakers during any and all political events.

CPT Soltz, based on the AKO White Pages, appears to be a Reservist, 2-312th TSB, which means he get to inflict misery on Guardsmen training at Ft. Dix to go overseas.

The Military and Progressives: Are They That Different?
Type:
Panel
Location:
100a-c
Session Date:
Aug 3 2007 - 9:15am - Aug 3 2007 - 10:15am
Speakers:
Brandon Friedman
Capt. Jonathan Powers
Ilona Meagher
Jon Soltz
Joshua Landsdale

This panel will examine the military, and how it embodies progressive values. We'll also examine why conservatives gained the military vote, and how progressives can get it back.

I know! Let's shout them down and treat them like dirt when they try to ask us a question!

re: #212 jcbunga
Have you seen this?
/...if he was here, it would be a helluva speech....

That was absolutely disgusting to watch.I hope that panelist got a punch in the head outside.
I can't believe the utter contempt that man showed the soldier and that Wesley Clark that sat there quiet.What a jerk.
The thing that really burns me is if that soldier was condemning the war or George Bush he would have been a hero there and allowed to speak on stage.
You know that's true.

The soldier absolutely has that right. Just not in uniform.

In uniform was poor judgment, given that the CPT's reaction was predicatable, but being in uniofrm did not make the SGT wrong. That's not the bright line here.

On Hannity's radio show today, he threatened to go down to the YearlyKos. That would cause another stir, I'm sure.

This panel will examine the military, and how it embodies progressive values. We'll also examine why conservatives gained the military vote, and how progressives can get it back.

Ha! FDR splains that in #212 above!

re: #220 VMI84

"...but it is NOT his call as to the disciplinary action to soldier. It is the soldiers Commanding Officer..."

I'm afraid I am going the pedantic route here. It is his call to make an on the spot correction, if you will. Not in that forum. Not in that public manner. Any officer or NCO, to include retirees can make an on the spot correction. Diplomatically. I have seen vets make uniform and behavioral corrections. But, you are correct in regards to the manner that correction took as well as the inappropriateness of using his rank to do so in a public forum. By using his rank, he automatically placed himself in the same category as he had placed the soldier.

re: #225 Atman

I tried to find that after Mark Levin played it....outstanding!

re: #227 RTO Trainer

In uniform was poor judgment, given that the CPT's reaction was predictable, but being in uniofrm did not make the SGT wrong. That's not the bright line here.

Bad judgment perhaps. But you have to admit, the man had a pair large enough to cart around in a wheelbarrow. Going into a Kos convention and supporting the war?

....or he was just being contrary. ;-)>

So just how much have the legal eagles at the military coached the troops in order that the Left has COMPLETE control of the presentation of information?

It would be VERY WORTHWHILE for a FULL legal and Consitutional review of the regs AND how these regs are currently being presented to the soldiers to see if soldiers are being informed they have fewer rights than they actually do. Happens all the time, and gets smacked down by the courts - misinforming, omitting, misleading, poorly formed explanations of the legal boundries. With what's at stake, it'd be worth investigating this.
This soldier was attending as a listener, a member of an audience - NOT as a panel member or organizer, didn't lend his cachet to the event - he was present as part of the audience. Where do the regs say a man can't stand up and ask and then offer information that is extremely germane to the discussion, as long as it doesn't give away security for the war effort? That this moderator jumped on the soldier so fast, using that argument means they are acutely aware of the usefulness of shutting up one side to their political cause.
Now, by unilaterally announcing that the soldier was in some sort of violation - the moderator, aided and abetted by Clark, have tried to set the terms of debate as the soldier was being political so that they could instantly then accuse him of violating regs - to deflect attention AWAY from what THEY were doing and to brush off scrutiny that THEY were the ones who stepped out of bounds. THEY had NO right to label his questions and comments as "political." They used that as the gimmick to throw regs at him that didn't apply. Since when does their "say-so" trump all? Just as Clark jumped in fast to buttress a flimsy charge, the media will run with their "terms of debate" to intimidate the soldier and cover up the crap that was being dumped at that seminar.

St. Crispen's Day Speech
William Shakespeare, 1599
Enter the KING
WESTMORELAND. O that we now had here
But one ten thousand of those men in England
That do no work to-day!

KING. What's he that wishes so?
My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day.'
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

re: #230 Outrider

So in truth he put himself in the same boat. How brilliant!
Hope it bites the Capt in the rear!

Stoltz - The operative term is...REMF.

Sometimes I really wish my old man was still around. The ol DI/RSM would have eaten that guy for breakfast, regurgitated, and eaten him for lunch too. Just way too much salad bar to argue with.

I seem to remember the term "glorified 2nd Louie with a map and compass" being used in reference to that type of officer.

If Stoltz is active, even reserves, he's every bit as guilty of the same exact regs as that Sargent. Moreso, he's sitting on the dais, with control of the mic.

===

Anybody got the name of Stoltz's commanding officer? I got something to say about his effect on unit morale.

MFER,
R

Render:
Information about him from #167 Lynn B.

re: #167 Lynn B.

Someone may have posted this on the other thread already, but...

Jon Soltz is a leader of the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans community and is originally from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. From May to September 2003, Soltz served as a Captain during Operation Iraqi Freedom, deploying logistics convoys with the 1st Armored Division. During 2005, Soltz was mobilized for 365 days at Fort Dix New Jersey, training soldiers for combat in Afghanistan and Iraq. He also served his country with distinction in the Kosovo Campaign as a Tank Platoon Leader between June and December 2000. Soltz is a graduate of Washington & Jefferson College with dual degree in Political Science and History. He has completed graduate work at the University of Pittsburgh Graduate School of Public and International Affairs.

Jon Soltz has quickly become one of the most authoritative voices on veterans issues and military issues. He has been interviewed by national outlets such as the Associated Press, Washington Post, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, TIME, Newsweek, among others, and in dozens of local outlets. He has made numerous media appearances including Jim Lehrer’s Newshour on PBS, CNN. MSNBC, FOX News and ABC News and Nightline, and national radio programs including Air America Radio, the Ed Schultz Show, the Bill Press Show, Alan Colmes Show, and Mancow in the Morning. Jon is a frequent contributor to Countdown with Keith Olbermann.

By using his rank, he automatically placed himself in the same category as he had placed the soldier.

I was thinking the same thing.

re: #185 lowandslow

It was just 45 minutes of digressive talk to make themselves feel important and accomplished absolutely nothing.

you mean it was just "mental(case) masturbation"?

#222 outrider
I know of no civilian companies that would want their company uniform worn by speakers during any and all political events.

What's the fudge for?
The soldier was NOT an official speaker in any capacity or came as a sponsor of the event in any way. He did not wear his uniform to promote the political cause of said event. Isn't it just heresay that he was being political? Since when has an audience member EVER been considered part of an event of any kind?
Now we get to the interesting part:
Yearly Kos Military Panel -
That banner reads like a debate, a discussion of issues. But you are saying that NO, the panel was a political speechy thing. Hmm. You're saying that it was never intended to be an actual debate, just a political speech arrangement? And the entire audience is knowingly in on it? That's rather enlightening isn't it?

re: #235 Suzette

So in truth he put himself in the same boat. How brilliant!

In effect? Yes. Brilliant.
My observation of him, via writings and video clips over the last few months, is that he is like every bad staff officer I have ever encountered.

Render:
And here from RTO Trainer.
Plus up in the thread someone has his myspace page link....
Hope that helps. But it came from others in the thread.

re: #223 RTO Trainer

CPT Soltz, based on the AKO White Pages, appears to be a Reservist, 2-312th TSB, which means he get to inflict misery on Guardsmen training at Ft. Dix to go overseas.

re: #241 Outrider

He must have been well loved by the people who served
under him!
/

re: #240 wanumba
What's the fudge for?

The soldier was NOT an official speaker in any capacity or came as a sponsor of the event in any way. He did not wear his uniform to promote the political cause of said event. Isn't it just heresay that he was being political? Since when has an audience member EVER been considered part of an event of any kind?
Now we get to the interesting part:
Yearly Kos Military Panel -
That banner reads like a debate, a discussion of issues. But you are saying that NO, the panel was a political speechy thing. Hmm. You're saying that it was never intended to be an actual debate, just a political speech arrangement? And the entire audience is knowingly in on it? That's rather enlightening isn't it?

He doesn't have to do anything but attend the political rally. He doesn't have to be a speaker.
They can advertise it as a panel or discussion of issues all they want. Were there any opposing viewpoints discussed? Of course not, nor would I expect there to be. But, it was a liberal Democrat discussion rally.

re: #18 Honorary Yooper

What question? Wesley Clark is this century's Benedict Arnold, and the sissyboy moderator got in his cheap shots and then ran away like a little girl. There is not too much to overthink here. They are scum, treasonous scum, and the soldier stood up and defended his country. That is what he is supposed to do while wearing his uniform, correct? I don't care about the nitpicking or the nuance, the Kos people put on a full display of their empty, tired, and treasonous tactics and this soldier called them on it.

That moderator has some nerve talking about "his" uniform. Which uniform did he wear to serve this country in a time of war? Pansy Nancyboy Loser ran away. That is right there for all to see.

In lieu of trackback:

Not 1LT Reickhoff this time.

The more I think about this, the angrier I get.

re: #236 Render
Try this.....

Ref 230 Outrider
You are correct and made a good point about the on the spot correction; having done it myself on occasion, my issue is with his statement as to what he was going to do to the soldier. Any punishment is up to the Chain of Command and not that "Captain." What I would like to know is what is the comments of the soldier?

As to his soldier wearing his uniform to the event " Good Initiative. Poor Judgment" :)

Had that been me and I heard:
"HEY! You want me to come down there?"

I would have been all "Hell Yeah! Bring it on!"

I ain't ever run from a fight!
I'd be on that fool like a swarm of flies on Cindy Sheehan!

How progressive of them to cut the audio on this soldier's comments. What a bunch of d*mned hypocrites- constantly whining about "free speech" and this is how they repay a man who defends their right to engage in that "free speech"? By silencing him?

You koslings make me sick.

BTW, who is Jon Soltz?
Some pogey bait eating, rear echelon mofo? Won three Silver Stars handing out mail. He was the guy sitting next to Wesley Clarke with his hand on ole Wes' leg, right?

re: #248 vmi84

Ref 230 Outrider
You are correct and made a good point about the on the spot correction; having done it myself on occasion, my issue is with his statement as to what he was going to do to the soldier. Any punishment is up to the Chain of Command and not that "Captain." What I would like to know is what is the comments of the soldier?

As to his soldier wearing his uniform to the event " Good Initiative. Poor Judgment" :)

True. He can actually do nothing to the soldier aside from a verbal correction and possibly a written letter to his command (like that would have an impact in this case)

Personally I would really like to see a transcript of the comments and just what was said or attempted to be said. Actually, I would like to know who the soldier is and what kind of units he served in.

The scroll at the bottom said it was being covered by C-SPAN, so maybe well get an unedited version.

Very disappointed in Wes Clarke. (Alright, I have been for a while)

Quite honestly, I no longer find the terms "liberal" or "progressive" accurate in describing the people at Daily Kos, or for that matter, the Democratic Party. The daily examples of their contempt for our military and their trampling of open meeting protocols are unnervingly reminiscent of an ascendant Communist Party attempting to silence and eventually criminalize any opposition.

This isn't an idle observation. My family fled a former Soviet country that had been taken over by the communists. The tactics and the projected sense of righteous dominance is very real. This country is in great, great danger.

re: #203 FormerCorpsman
Vote Vets Organization:
Staff and advisors:
Jon Soltz, Iraq War Veteran, Co-Founder and Chairman, VoteVets.org[1]
Jeremy Broussard, Iraq War Veteran, Co-Founder and Senior Advisor, VoteVets.org[2]
* Sam Schultz, Senior Advisor[3]
* General Wesley Kanne Clark (US Army, ret), Board of Advisors
* Bob Kerrey, Board of Advisors
* Leslie H. Gelb, Board of Advisors
* Bill Belding, Board of Advisors[4]
* Ed Vick, Board of Advisors[5]
* Richard Beattie, Board of Advisors[6]
* Elaine Kamarck, Board of Advisors[7]
/.....mystery solved....

#244 Outrider
The legalities of this are going to come into play. If a political rally, then certain fundraising and political regs come into play, don't they? Hypothetically, if KOS didn't write the entire event down as a political rally, but promoted it as an open debate, then can the soldier be criticised for not knowing it was a rally? What happens when the man isn't part of the event, but came to hear the arguments, not planning in anyway to participate in anything, including an open audience mike? How does objecting to what was being presented be labelled as acting in a political manner to promote one political agenda? Since when does being part of an audience automatically determine support for a political event? It might, but it's not a given, especially in this case when the man brought in information that contradicted the panel's statements.
It just appears that the Left is demanding to be the sole arbitrators of what is deemed political, simply to shut up inconvenient input. They really threatened him. How is it that can he have no protection?

I especially like the belch at 47:28. It captures the atmosphere quite well.

After all, we wouldn't want people who are willing to put their lives on the line for our coiuntry to participare in the political process.

DOOOOOOOSHBAG! See that guy's body language when he's listening to the question?! Psh, what an idiot. This is why officers who skip the enlisted rout are hated.

Sorry, but if the sargeant was in uniform he was out of line making a political speech.

I do wonder if the KOS military anti-military wing or whatever the panel was called doesn't do the same thing at times, and whether there might not be pictures lurking about the internet showing that.

Just an aside-

Wes Clarke makes the comment that the 1st and 3rd armored divisions clash against the Iraqi republican Guard was the greatest tank battle in history. It was big and deadly - to the Iraqis.

But for a military man, he sure doesnt know his history. It was just the on July 12th, 1943 that the germans fought the soviets (with the Waffen SS tank corps against several Soviet Tank Armies (corps-sized) at the climatic battle of Kursk.

1000s of tanks, slaughter on both sides, the germans won a tactical victory, the Russians won the campaign and sent the Germans retreating. teh shear magnitude of the forces involved dwarfed GW 1.

CLarke spoke to a naive crowd that ate up his every word - even the incorrect ones, since they just dont know their military history, as apparently, Clarke seems to have forgotten his. He also seems to have forgotten The battles between the Israel forces and the Arabs in 1973 - huge combined-armed tank battles.

swhitebull

re: #256 wanumba

#244 Outrider
The legalities of this are going to come into play. If a political rally, then certain fundraising and political regs come into play, don't they? Hypothetically, if KOS didn't write the entire event down as a political rally, but promoted it as an open debate, then can the soldier be criticised for not knowing it was a rally? What happens when the man isn't part of the event, but came to hear the arguments, not planning in anyway to participate in anything, including an open audience mike? How does objecting to what was being presented be labelled as acting in a political manner to promote one political agenda? Since when does being part of an audience automatically determine support for a political event? It might, but it's not a given, especially in this case when the man brought in information that contradicted the panel's statements.
It just appears that the Left is demanding to be the sole arbitrators of what is deemed political, simply to shut up inconvenient input. They really threatened him. How is it that can he have no protection?

This ~was~ a Kos event. The fact that it was going to be a liberal event was implicit given the mission statement of Kos.
You don't go to a life insurance sales convention and start discussing the best way to commit suicide and collect policies. Strangely enough, the libs do tend to show up and disrupt the proceedings of most Republican and conservative conferences/debates/conventions/meetings/rallys, etc... But then, apparently they sem to want to disrupt their fellow liberals also. To wit; Breasts Not Bombs and Code Pink disrupting Sen Clintons grand opening of a new office in California.

The entire hoopla is just that. Even though there are regulations pertaining to the soldiers conduct in this type of situation, I have never seen anyone punished with anything more than a counseling statement for so doing, unless their conduct was such to warrant separate offenses.

What a joke. I am ashamed to be in Chicago right now. This is classic leftist BS: Silence anyone who holds an opposing opinion. I wonder i f these KrazyKosKidz are going to be suprised when they are crushed by Dougie Hooper, CAIR and the Islamic horde.

Surely an event with the greatest general ever, Wes, would have been taped by mulitple parties. These lefty swarms are notorious for loving to see themselves on tape. My guess is that there should be at least six or seven videotapes of this segment of the event; and it only takes one non-McCarthyite to release a non-edited version.

re: #132 ornery elephant
I believe that attitudes like this (I'm a good soldier while i'm in, but once I'm out) are very reflective of today's professional army. All of the officer corps seems to be more concerned with their career, their promotion path and their own little career, than they are with the Army, their country or their countrymen. It seems to me that these people will join the army and once in, will put their own personal advancement above the needs of their country. I'm not saying that these guys are patriots, rather nost of them would pu laval or quisling to shame, but having sold out for their pension, like Wesley Clark, they're now determined to punish the army for every perceived insult as well as for personal revenge.
I believe that the Army, both commissioned an senior nocomissioned, cared more for their troops and their country when we had a draft. Unfortunately, I don't think a draft would work now due to the egocentric and self gratification of the younger people today.

Surely there must have been a list of "invited" media. They would have unaltered tapes of the event.

re: #203 formercorpsman

Stolz still has an army.mil adress as a CPT in the Reserves. Clark is still labeled as a Gen with a .mil address since he is retired. What gives these two the right to belittle anybody in uniform when by all rights, for at least GEN Clark anyhow, they keep their titles? Expecting the bennies of retirement while not in uniform but still can carry a title, and still protest administrative policy. They can't have it both ways, especially when one is a pogue Captain shouting down the "Backbone of the Army"...an NCO.

/rant off

re: #260 DaMav

Those in the panel still carrying their military title like a badge on their sleeve are no better by the way.

re: #97 meMarc

SeafoodGumbo,

I laughed when Dennis Prager asked incredulously, "You're name is SeafoodGumbo"?

Really glad I was there to hear it.

Dennis should blame my mom for giving me such an unusual name. :)