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PJ Video: YearlyKos Military Panel Meltdown

Sat, Aug 4, 2007 at 11:49:11 am PDT

Pajamas Media has video by Andrew Marcus from YearlyKos, showing the full confrontation we reported yesterday, and more—interviews with both the soldier and moderator John Soltz: Pajamas Media: Soldier Censored at Kos Convention.

UPDATE at 8/4/07 12:27:01 pm:

The front page posters at Daily Kos are all doing their best to completely ignore this, but since it’s on Drudge Report now, that’s going to be a bit difficult.

First diary post I’ve found on the incident: Daily Kos: What happened to this soldier?!?!?

(UPDATE: The diary linked above has been deleted.)

UPDATE at 8/4/07 1:43:41 pm:

I’m sure he regrets writing about it yesterday; today Ezra Klein lashes out at bloggers covering the story: TAPPED Archive | The American Prospect.

SUPPORTING THE TROOPS. It’s fascinating to watch how gleefully the Right has picked up on my retelling of yesterday’s shouting match between a uniformed soldier and Jon Soltz, the head of Vote Vets. To be sure, I found the exchange disturbing — that’s why I wrote about it. But then, I didn’t spend the last few weeks not only shouting down, but harassing, intimidating, investigating, slurring, discrediting, and attacking a soldier currently stationed in Iraq because he wrote a New Republic column I didn’t like.

SO let’s be clear here: No one at the Kos panel searched out the questioner’s wedding registry, no one at the Kos panel dug up his old poetry to embarrass him, no one at the Kos panel speculated on what a terrible soldier he is and how much he must have slowed his unit down, no one at the Kos panel unearthed his MySpace page, no one at the Kos panel said “he’d better watch his ass.”

And yet, merely a week after the Right did all that to Private Beauchamp — whose story has been proven true in virtually all respects, with the singular error misremembering the location of one of the stories — they have the audacity to accuse members of YearlyKos of proving insufficiently supportive of the troops. And they’re doing so over an argument that was not between a room of people, or a conference of people, and a soldier, but between — and limited to — two soldiers.

Remarkable.

—Ezra Klein

On the Scott Beauchamp incident, perhaps Ezra Klein isn’t aware that the Public Affairs Officer for Gen. Petraeus has stated:

An investigation of the allegations were conducted by the command and found to be false. In fact, members of Thomas’ platoon and company were all interviewed and no one could substantiate his claims.

Or maybe he is aware, and just figured he could get away with ignoring it. Or maybe he’s just brimming over with so much respect for the military that he doesn’t believe it.

On the matter of “gleefulness,” I feel no glee about this. On the contrary, I think what happened at that panel discussion was a disgrace, and if you read what I’ve written you won’t find a whole lot of “glee” in it.

It’s a standard “progressive” tactic when trying to divert attention from a potentially serious problem: ascribe the worst kinds of motives and emotions to those who pointed it out.

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385 comments

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1 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 11:53:00am

Dang. I'm out of popcorn.

2 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 11:54:01am

It won't load.

3 Jimmah  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 11:56:14am

"You don't use a military uniform to talk politics"

An attempt to put a military uniform on moonbat politics is fine though, in fact that's the subject of the meeting!

Oh what hypocrisy!

4 Slumbering Behemoth  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 11:56:30am

re: #2 MandyManners

Same problem here.

Funny, just as I was asking about it in the previous thread, Charles must have been putting this up at the same time. Is the Lizard King psychic?

5 brakes  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 11:57:10am

I only got a minute into it and it stopped.

6 Pastorius  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 11:58:36am

If anyone wants to watch me completely lather Charles ass with kisses and love, then click here:

[Link: ibloga.blogspot.com...]

Thing is, I really mean it.

:)

7 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 11:58:58am

Dagnabit. I got about two minutes into it and it just quit.

8 FrogMarch  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 11:59:37am

Free speech is only for holy progressives. All other thought and opinion must be purged and cleansed.

/KOS kult

9 BlueCanuck  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 11:59:37am

Ok, when's the youtube version coming out? I can't get it to play in my browser as well.

10 Psaturn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:01:43pm

IT is on the Drudge Report !

First spot !

Wow!

Now everyone important gets to see it including Edwards!

11 NR Pax  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:02:04pm

I don't suppose anyone actually has a transcript of what that Sergeant said? Kind of annoying that they cut his mike and the only thing we had to go off of was the Captain's irritated expression.

12 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:02:47pm

re: #10 Psaturn

IT is on the Drudge Report !

First spot !

Wow!

Now everyone important gets to see it including Edwards!

Cool.

Kudos to Charles for running this..

13 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:05:13pm

re: #11 NR Pax

He basically just asked for proof (or any indication) that the surge is failing.

14 Perfectsense  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:05:21pm

"You don't use a military uniform to talk politics"

John Kerry sure did when he smear millions of Viet Nam vets before Congress.

15 Jimmah  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:05:34pm

"Progressives And Extreme Authoritarians - Are They Really That Different?"

16 SlothB77  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:06:03pm

but they support the troops?

17 NR Pax  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:06:16pm

re: #13 Killgore Trout

Thanks. I didn't want to crank up my speakers too loudly.

18 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:06:32pm

re: #13 Killgore Trout

re: #11 NR Pax

He basically just asked for proof (or any indication) that the surge is failing.

Yep.

19 SlothB77  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:07:17pm

"You don't use a military uniform to talk politics"

yeah, politics doesn't directly effect him and his daily life in any way. why would he want to be in the debate.

20 Thanos  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:08:58pm

"I'd rather break the rules to do what's right".

21 Intestinal Fortitude  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:09:11pm

I didn't think this NCO was legit until I saw this new clip. Can anybody read his name tag?

22 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:09:25pm

Here is John Soltz in uniform on the Vote Vets website.

23 Luigi  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:09:47pm

I hope it's okay for me to repeat part of a post I did early this morning..

I would have a lot more respect for Wes Clark if he had quoted General MacArthur at Beauchamp as well as that sergeant. It is squarely within the American tradition for active duty soldiers to make public appearances during a war supporting that war and the President from bond rallies to barrooms to street corners. It is Wes Clark's shame and perversion that he cannot tell the difference between someone who is for American and someone who is against America.

24 'Nam Grunt  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:09:48pm

Call me naive, but I will never understand how Americans can downgrade our Military when we put ourselves in the face of danger unconditionally for Americans, (shaking my head)!

25 BlueCanuck  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:10:31pm

Got it to work. Mr. Stoltz seems to be trying to bully every one around that situation. Hope he trys and fails to get that sargeant discharged.

26 ubercheesehead  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:10:33pm

...and don't you dare question their patriotism.

/gathering hoops skirts and storming out of the room in a huff

27 NR Pax  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:10:55pm

re: #24 'Nam Grunt

Call me naive, but I will never understand how Americans can downgrade our Military when we put ourselves in the face of danger unconditionally for Americans, (shaking my head)!

Because we are doing our job and they aren't in danger. Just my two cents.

28 Intestinal Fortitude  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:12:01pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

He's quite the hypocrite.

29 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:12:02pm

re: #23 Luigi

I hope it's okay for me to repeat part of a post I did early this morning..

I would have a lot more respect for Wes Clark if he had quoted General MacArthur at Beauchamp as well as that sergeant. It is squarely within the American tradition for active duty soldiers to make public appearances during a war supporting that war and the President from bond rallies to barrooms to street corners. It is Wes Clark's shame and perversion that he cannot tell the difference between someone who is for American and someone who is against America.

That's because Wes Clark and his ilk are against America.

The soldier was hitting pretty close to their "freedom fighters."

Hey, they coined the phrase.

30 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:13:14pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Here is John Soltz in uniform on the Vote Vets website.

Killgore...

Is Stolz still in the service?

31 'Nam Grunt  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:13:49pm

Wes Clark should lose a couple of stars he's no different than hanoi john the traitor, he's a traitor and coward himself!

32 Dirk Diggler  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:14:08pm
"You don't use a military uniform to talk politics"

Sargeant Cojones didn't discuss politics. He wanted to discuss the positive effects of the current military strategy.

A uniformed General Petraeus does this everyday with any reporter who will listen. Is he violating these army regs?

33 Psaturn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:14:14pm

OT: I cannot believe that China wants to control who gets reincarnated for the Tibetan living Bhudda...

China tells living Buddhas to obtain permission before they reincarnate

34 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:14:17pm

Oh I love this!

These morons are saying it's ILLEGAL for him to speak!? Yet they bitch and whine about us calling out ILLEGAL ALIENS!

An army of 1 man taking on the entire Kosdom...Truth only takes 1.

35 pat  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:14:40pm

Ordinary people would get upset about this. And the Bush administration should make sure that the soldier is not punished. But I really have no faith Bush will do what is right. In a day the MSM will be screaming that the soldier should be court marshalled.

36 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:14:54pm

re: #30 Ginn

I don't think so.

37 new2thezoo  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:15:38pm

More on their Con-vention...

Will they hire an official White House blogger?
Edwards: His Wife

Are all Alaskan Republicans corrupt?
Money is the corrupting force. (Edwards raises eyebrows)

They are going to expand the voter base.

Kuch: I'm going to visit Iran and Syria.

Clinton:
We are going to have an open hand for everybody.

38 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:16:08pm

re: #20 Thanos

"I'd rather break the rules to do what's right".

It even seems from yesterdays analysis by Zombie, Jammie, and Charles that he didn't even break any rules...

39 pat  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:16:14pm

#31 'Nam Grunt
I think Wes Clark has "issues".

40 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:16:40pm

Killgore

From your link:

Jon Soltz has quickly become one of the most authoritative voices on veterans issues and military issues. He has been interviewed by national outlets such as the Associated Press, Washington Post, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, TIME, Newsweek, among others, and in dozens of local outlets. He has made numerous media appearances including Jim Lehrer’s Newshour on PBS, CNN. MSNBC, FOX News and ABC News and Nightline, and national radio programs including Air America Radio, the Ed Schultz Show, the Bill Press Show, Alan Colmes Show, and Mancow in the Morning. Jon is a frequent contributor to Countdown with Keith Olbermann.

41 Killian Bundy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:17:24pm

I give up.

/what a lame video player

42 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:18:00pm

If you guys would like to contact Mr. Stolz:

VoteVets.org

Email: info@votevets.org
Media: eric@votevets.org

43 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:18:16pm

re: #40 Ginn

Killgore

From your link:


Jon Soltz has quickly become one of the most authoritative voices on veterans issues and military issues. He has been interviewed by national outlets such as the Associated Press, Washington Post, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, TIME, Newsweek, among others, and in dozens of local outlets. He has made numerous media appearances including Jim Lehrer’s Newshour on PBS, CNN. MSNBC, FOX News and ABC News and Nightline, and national radio programs including Air America Radio, the Ed Schultz Show, the Bill Press Show, Alan Colmes Show, and Mancow in the Morning. Jon is a frequent contributor to Countdown with Keith Olbermann.

An authority on what?

44 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:18:30pm

I was waiting or Stoltz to cry "Racist!" and concede the match.

Stoltz knew he couldn't fight with facts so he had to do the typical MSM spin and find a red herring, in this case the 'Uniform', to focus on.

45 'Nam Grunt  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:18:33pm

#39 pat,

He's an SOB and a sissy!

46 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:18:45pm

Can a retired Captain order an active military member to "stand down?"

47 Dave the.....  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:19:21pm

Saw that off the drudge link this morning. Pretty good. Funny how if you are off message, you suddenly shouldn't be allowed to talk. How about the threats against the soldier? Sounds like the email the global warming skeptic recieved last month.

48 pat  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:19:24pm

Ginn, no.

49 new2thezoo  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:19:59pm

Edwards:
The system is rigged against you. We will never take a dime from the lobbyists.

Clinton:
Position that John has taken. She won't be influenced by lobbyists. (laughing). She is there to thank the Kos for their movement. But she will take money from lobbyists.

50 Thanos  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:20:12pm

The French used to pay off the Barbary pirates with ships and cannon so their ships could sail the Med without threat. Thanks Sarkozy.

It feels like an 80's video

51 'Nam Grunt  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:20:36pm

#46 Ginn,

Hell No! But he can get an a$$ whuppin' by a uniformed Soldier!

52 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:20:38pm

Boy, that was informative.

Sargeant Balls is a brave guy. I'm telling you, one day I'm going to invent a way to remotely buy beer for people, and I'll send him one.

Stoltz may have had a point, but it was a hypocritcal one, and thuggishly played. "He wanted to get me a Dishonorable Discharge"... For saying current strategy is working? WTF?

53 saintarctangent  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:20:46pm

That Stoltz is an idiot. He was trying to intimidate the Sgt by using his 'prior' rank of Captain . . . and to me, sounded like he was threatening him physically as well. Unless Stoltz is in the reserves or something, he's in la la land - unless he's still in, he's nothing. Sounded like he was trying to be the big man - well if he wants to play US Army Captain so much, why doesn't he go back on active duty!

In any case, there's so much hyprocracy - Stoltz trying to use his 'rank' to shut down a Sgt making a statement at the convention. Apparently Stoltz didn't like the fact that the guy was in uniform, but Stoltz was using his supposed rank to intimidate the Sgt. OK, uniform or not, who's trying to use a military position improperly?

Maybe Stoltz needs a dose of his own medicine - recall him to active duty and prosecute him for making improper statements against the President while linking his views with his officer rank!

54 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:20:56pm

You guys have got to see this!

[Link: ga4.org...]

StopIranWar.com
Please join the Iraq and Afghanistan War veterans at VoteVets.org and me -- sign the petition to President Bush today. Urge him to work with our allies and use every diplomatic, political, and economic option at our disposal to deal with Iran. War is not the answer.

Stop "Iran" war?

55 boocat  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:21:04pm

Who is this Stoltz person? No wonder he wouldn't kick that poor kid around in public; I feel what Stoltz is purported to have said privately to the soldier is shameful.

56 Dave the.....  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:21:33pm

Have we talked about Edwards? He boycotted FNC debate cuz he said he hates FNC, but took $800,000 from Murdach on a book deal.

57 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:21:44pm

re: #49 new2thezoo

Edwards:
The system is rigged against you. We will never take a dime from the lobbyists.

Clinton:
Position that John has taken. She won't be influenced by lobbyists. (laughing). She is there to thank the Kos for their movement. But she will take money from lobbyists.


Yep, all this Kos coverage sure did Ned Lamont a world of good.

Leiberman beat him in a landslide, after people found out about the communist Kos.

It's all like a dream come true.

58 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:21:52pm

This is Wesley Clark's site.

Take about creating false hysteria.

Look at the form letter they have for you to sign.

President Bush, I demand that you stop the rush to war with Iran. I urge you to use every option available to defuse tensions with Iran -- diplomatic, political, and economic -- before even considering military force. Military force must be viewed as the last resort -- not the first option. War is not the answer.

59 Dave the.....  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:22:26pm

Rush to war with Iran? What rush?

60 pat  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:23:35pm

Ginn, I think Wes Clark has an ego problem. Desperate to be relevant.

61 opnion  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:24:11pm

A little bit off of topic. Kos was profiled in the Chicago Tribune the other day.
He said that he did not like Illinois "Too cold, too hot & flat"
Interesting he want to Schaumburg High School outside of Chicago.
He lived in Salvador until he was nine the son of a Greek Father & Salvadoren mother.
He claims that because his English was not good that he got "Bulllied" a lot in High school.
Bulleying is not acceptible, but with nothing but psych 101 in my background it makes sense.
I have always thought that real far lefties have a grudge against society for real or imagined slights, or against their parents. Usually both.
Most often their arguements are hate filled and irrational, 9/11 was an inside job etc. They leap to the conclusion that their own country is evil and always wrong. It seems very pathological to me.

62 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:24:37pm

re: #59 Dave the.....

Rush to war with Iran? What rush?


Especially considering that Jimmy(the father of islamic terrorism) Carter got this all started in 1979.

63 pat  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:24:47pm

Next week, Wes Clark will claim that he singlehandedly held back war with Iran. Then he will fly to meet the Mullahs.

64 missouri boy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:25:54pm

re: #24 'Nam Grunt

Call me naive, but I will never understand how Americans can downgrade our Military when we put ourselves in the face of danger unconditionally for Americans, (shaking my head)!

Real Americans don't downgrade our Military...........it's only the assholes , who have to tell you they love this country.
Kind of like iSLam, having to tell you, they are a religion of peace.

65 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:25:58pm

re: #63 pat

Next week, Wes Clark will claim that he singlehandedly held back war with Iran. Then he will fly to meet the Mullahs.


Why not, John Kerry got an autograph from one of them in Davos.

66 kreigwagon  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:26:15pm

re: #53 saintarctangent

Maybe Stoltz needs a dose of his own medicine - recall him to active duty and prosecute him for making improper statements against the President while linking his views with his officer rank!


Right on! I hear that Leavenworth needs some walls painted, rock-splitting ect, ect...

67 saintarctangent  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:27:02pm

re: #46 Ginn

Can a retired Captain order an active military member to "stand down?"

Only under unusual circumstances would a Captain retire (medical reasons maybe). You have to put in 20 years to retire from the military. If you don't get promoted from Captain by about the 10-12 year point, you get kicked out.

To answer your question, no a retired officer doesn't hold command authority any longer. Even if they did, I don't see how Stoltz would have been retired anyway. He probably either got passed over and booted out or left on his own. In either case, after he left, he as no further association with the military.

The way he was trying to throw his perceived weight around sounded like an immature cadet more than a seasoned and respected officer. My God, he was seated next to a retired 4 star general, and I didn't see slippery Clark getting all offended by the Sgt in uniform!

68 Beagle  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:27:15pm

Why is Soltz allowed to appear in uniform at his PAC's website?

Someone might want to screen cap that before it goes away mysteriously.

69 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:27:19pm

re: #63 pat

Next week, Wes Clark will claim that he singlehandedly held back war with Iran. Then he will fly to meet the Mullahs.

Will he use his Moonbatmobile?

70 Killian Bundy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:27:36pm

Okay, it finally worked. He's gutsy.

/but he also flat out admitted that he was "breaking the rules" by appearing in uniform

71 pat  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:27:49pm

It is now the headline at World Net
[Link: www.wnd.com...]

72 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:28:03pm

re: #66 kreigwagon

re: #53 saintarctangent


Maybe Stoltz needs a dose of his own medicine - recall him to active duty and prosecute him for making improper statements against the President while linking his views with his officer rank!

Right on! I hear that Leavenworth needs some walls painted, rock-splitting ect, ect...

That sounds spot on.

I already have no respect for Stoltz or his militray service.

Stoltz and Murtha are like one in the same.

73 jcm  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:28:07pm

re: #54 Ginn

You guys have got to see this!

[Link: ga4.org...]

StopIranWar.com
Please join the Iraq and Afghanistan War veterans at VoteVets.org and me -- sign the petition to President Bush today. Urge him to work with our allies and use every diplomatic, political, and economic option at our disposal to deal with Iran. War is not the answer.

Stop "Iran" war?

War is not the answer?
Then what is the answer?

74 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:28:17pm

re: #67 saintarctangent

re: #46 Ginn

Can a retired Captain order an active military member to "stand down?"
Only under unusual circumstances would a Captain retire (medical reasons maybe). You have to put in 20 years to retire from the military. If you don't get promoted from Captain by about the 10-12 year point, you get kicked out.

To answer your question, no a retired officer doesn't hold command authority any longer. Even if they did, I don't see how Stoltz would have been retired anyway. He probably either got passed over and booted out or left on his own. In either case, after he left, he as no further association with the military.

The way he was trying to throw his perceived weight around sounded like an immature cadet more than a seasoned and respected officer. My God, he was seated next to a retired 4 star general, and I didn't see slippery Clark getting all offended by the Sgt in uniform!

Thanks for you answer. And he did sound like an immature cadet.

75 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:28:26pm

re: #54 Ginn

You guys have got to see this!

[Link: ga4.org...]

Stop "Iran" war?

Here is the Before...

President Bush, I demand that you stop the rush to war with Iran. I urge you to use every option available to defuse tensions with Iran -- diplomatic, political, and economic -- before even considering military force. Military force must be viewed as the last resort -- not the first option. War is not the answer.

And My after...

President Bush, I demand that you rush to war with Iran. I urge you to use every military option, including nuclear, available to diffuse Iran -- Air, Land, and Sea -- before even considering listening to the Media, Democrats, and socialists. Military force must be viewed as the first great resort -- not the last option. War is the only answer when it comes to Islamofascism.

76 Racer X  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:28:38pm

re: #58 Ginn

Military force must be viewed as the last resort -- not the first option.


Yeah, The President should have tried for 9 years to get Saddam to comply with international sanctions before invading Iraq.

No, wait.....

77 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:29:03pm

re: #68 Beagle

Why is Soltz allowed to appear in uniform at his PAC's website?

Someone might want to screen cap that before it goes away mysteriously.

Got it.

78 pat  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:29:21pm

Ginn. Indeed. Spicoli's private jet.

79 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:29:36pm

From the comments at PJM:

"While the section of the US Code that you quoted may not cover the wear of military uniforms DoD Directive 1334.1 does. It states that the wear of the uniform is prohibited "during or in connection with furthering political activities, private employment or commercial interests, when an inference of official sponsorship for the activity or interest may be drawn."

I think the bolded part may be what gets the Sgt. off the hook. He was attending as an audience member, not a sponsor.

80 Jimash  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:30:04pm

Progressives and Communist Dictators, are they really all that different?
No.

81 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:30:04pm

re: #70 Killian Bundy

Okay, it finally worked. He's gutsy.

/but he also flat out admitted that he was "breaking the rules" by appearing in uniform


It's interesting that nobody seems to care about rules being broken, unless it is a conservative who "seems" to break the rules.

Unfucking real!

82 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:30:24pm

re: #73 jcm

re: #54 Ginn

You guys have got to see this!

[Link: ga4.org...]

StopIranWar.com
Please join the Iraq and Afghanistan War veterans at VoteVets.org and me -- sign the petition to President Bush today. Urge him to work with our allies and use every diplomatic, political, and economic option at our disposal to deal with Iran. War is not the answer.
Stop "Iran" war?
War is not the answer?
Then what is the answer?

This website completely surprised me.

They are fearmongering. Nothing more.

83 DesertSage  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:31:05pm

“The Military and Progressives: Are They Really That Different?”.

Just who are the "Progressives"?

Liberals certainly aren't "progressive"
Leftists definitely aren't "progressive". Neither one of them have progressed in over a century. Democrats aren't "progressive", they want to turn the clock back...not only to 9/10/01, but back to the 60's.

So just who are these "Progressives" that they speak of?

84 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:31:51pm

re: #81 republic

re: #70 Killian Bundy

Okay, it finally worked. He's gutsy.

/but he also flat out admitted that he was "breaking the rules" by appearing in uniform


It's interesting that nobody seems to care about rules being broken, unless it is a conservative who "seems" to break the rules.

Unfucking real!

EXACTLY. The theory is if you have no morals it is impossible to be a hypocrite and you therefore get a pass on all things...where as if you claim a certain standard and fall short, you will be crucified for it.

85 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:32:09pm

re: #83 DesertSage

I'm just happy that they've given up using the term "liberal". I'd like to reclaim it.

86 Killian Bundy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:32:36pm

re: #81 republic

Would this have gotten any coverage if he hadn't appeared in uniform?

/maybe there's a reason for that rule

87 tarkus  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:32:46pm

Its quite hypocritical for that panel member to get all bent out of shape about being challenged by a serviceman in a uniform as he sits next to general Wesley Clarke. Sure, Clarke wasn't wearing a uniform but he certainly is being used as someone in the military who has been politically against the war.

88 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:33:31pm

re: #76 Racer X

re: #58 Ginn

Military force must be viewed as the last resort -- not the first option.

Yeah, The President should have tried for 9 years to get Saddam to comply with international sanctions before invading Iraq.

No, wait.....

Actually, I had no idea we were to war with Iran. And Clark is using this to raise money. They could put up any kind website.

StopTheBulgarianWar!

Please sign this letter and we'll send it on to the President. And don't forget to send us some money!


Dear Mr. President:

War with Bulgaria is the not the answer.

Sincerely,

A Sucker Is Born Every Minute

89 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:33:45pm

re: #86 Killian Bundy

re: #81 republic

Would this have gotten any coverage if he hadn't appeared in uniform?

/maybe there's a reason for that rule


He asked a fucking question!

90 MiB  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:34:29pm

NEWSFLASH: KOS GUYS DON'T LIKE ANYONE WHO HAS A PRO-IRAQI STANCE.

This is about as surprising as...something thats not at all surprising.

91 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:34:35pm

re: #86 Killian Bundy

re: #81 republic

Would this have gotten any coverage if he hadn't appeared in uniform?

/maybe there's a reason for that rule


I'm not upset with you K_B, just at the sham that is the Democrat party, and all that they do, and don't stand for.

92 Capt_Faust  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:35:10pm

"not in MY uniform..."

WTF?...who the effing hell are YOU to somehow now take command of the entire unit as a whole? Some how some bloody twit crowns you king of the Army, and now you suddenly spout code when it sanctified your own unbelievably biased message, and nonchalantly disregarded it when it suits your means?

Piss off Mutrha Jr.

93 saintarctangent  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:35:35pm

re: #68 Beagle

Why is Soltz allowed to appear in uniform at his PAC's website?

Someone might want to screen cap that before it goes away mysteriously.

What a loser. Wraps himself in the flag while vehemently criticizing the US and the Commander in Chief. No matter how honorable and dedicated his service was, he'll always be remembered as someone who stabbed his fellow soldiers in the back - sort of like Kerry. For all his exposure, I don't think I would want to live with that on my conscience.

94 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:35:43pm

re: #87 tarkus

Its quite hypocritical for that panel member to get all bent out of shape about being challenged by a serviceman in a uniform as he sits next to general Wesley Clarke. Sure, Clarke wasn't wearing a uniform but he certainly is being used as someone in the military who has been politically against the war.

Oh definitely. Every appearance on PMSNBC, ABC, CNN, CBS, Faux News, and all the rest I missed are the FIRST to point out in Interviews, "retired GENERAL, Four Stars, 3 hearts, 2 yellow diamonds, and a purple horseshoe, Frosted Lucky Charms, Wesley P. Clarke the Third, is going to explain....(Political BS rant)...

95 DesertSage  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:36:07pm

re: #85 Killgore Trout

re: #83 DesertSage

I'm just happy that they've given up using the term "liberal". I'd like to reclaim it.

Yeah but why "Progressive"? Do they want to sound like they're hip and open minded?
They certainly haven't progressed, so how can they profess to claim that title?

I thing "Regressive" would be more apt.

96 kreigwagon  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:36:29pm

re: #82 Ginn

re: #73 jcm


re: #54 Ginn
You guys have got to see this!
[Link: ga4.org...]
StopIranWar.com
Please join the Iraq and Afghanistan War veterans at VoteVets.org and me -- sign the petition to President Bush today. Urge him to work with our allies and use every diplomatic, political, and economic option at our disposal to deal with Iran. War is not the answer.
Stop "Iran" war?
War is not the answer?
Then what is the answer?

This website completely surprised me.

They are fearmongering. Nothing more.

Bush IMHO is doing everything possible to avoid war with Iran. But if they insist to take the same path as Saddam and ignore the U.N., then who are we to argue with their desire? The U.S. has a tradition not to start a fight but, if you are dumb enough to pick a fight with the U.S., well, we'll end it for you.

97 Killian Bundy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:36:44pm

re: #89 republic

Right, but the only reason it's been reported in the media is because he was wearing his uniform.

/if he had asked the same question as a civilian, no one would have paid any attention and it wouldn't be on Drudge right now

98 jebIII  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:36:46pm

Hi

#67 Retired Captain. Many military officers are prior enlisted. It is entirely possible to spend 10yrs enlisted get a commission and then retire as a Capt.

I am retired from the AF. I have always had the understanding that it is inappropriate to attend a political gathering in uniform. However, I must admire this guy's courage. The yearlyKos panelist was clearly inappropriate.

JEBIII

99 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:37:22pm

re: #92 Capt_Faust

"not in MY uniform..."

WTF?...who the effing hell are YOU to somehow now take command of the entire unit as a whole? Some how some bloody twit crowns you king of the Army, and now you suddenly spout code when it sanctified your own unbelievably biased message, and nonchalantly disregarded it when it suits your means?

Piss off Mutrha Jr.

No really, the dude snuck into John's apartment and stole his Uniform...well, maybe not.

100 jcm  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:37:27pm

re: #82 Ginn

re: #73 jcm

re: #54 Ginn

You guys have got to see this![Link: ga4.org...]

StopIranWar.com
Please join the Iraq and Afghanistan War veterans at VoteVets.org and me -- sign the petition to President Bush today. Urge him to work with our allies and use every diplomatic, political, and economic option at our disposal to deal with Iran. War is not the answer.

Stop "Iran" war?

War is not the answer?
Then what is the answer?

This website completely surprised me.

They are fearmongering. Nothing more.

I edited the letter:

BAWHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I demand that you Liberate Iran, stop Iranian sponsored terror, Iranian weapons killing our troop, and Iran from further destabilizing Iraq. I urge you to use every weapon to remove the Mad Mullahs and liberate Iran -- Air, Sea and Land forces up to and including NUCLEAR. Military force must be viewed as the only way to deal with the irrational regime in Tehran. War is only answer at times like these.

101 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:37:39pm

re: #94 Oh no...Sand People!

re: #87 tarkus

Its quite hypocritical for that panel member to get all bent out of shape about being challenged by a serviceman in a uniform as he sits next to general Wesley Clarke. Sure, Clarke wasn't wearing a uniform but he certainly is being used as someone in the military who has been politically against the war.
Oh definitely. Every appearance on PMSNBC, ABC, CNN, CBS, Faux News, and all the rest I missed are the FIRST to point out in Interviews, "retired GENERAL, Four Stars, 3 hearts, 2 yellow diamonds, and a purple horseshoe, Frosted Lucky Charms, Wesley P. Clarke the Third, is going to explain....(Political BS rant)...

Hahahaha!

102 Jimash  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:38:07pm

President Bush, I humbly request that you destroy Iran. I urge you to use every option available to nullify Iran -- diplomatic, political, and military force. Military force must be viewed as the only resort -- not the last option. War is not the answer.
Don't even give them a chance to have a war. Just do it.

103 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:38:15pm

re: #95 DesertSage

re: #85 Killgore Trout

re: #83 DesertSage

I'm just happy that they've given up using the term "liberal". I'd like to reclaim it.

Yeah but why "Progressive"? Do they want to sound like they're hip and open minded?
They certainly haven't progressed, so how can they profess to claim that title?

I thing "Regressive" would be more apt.

"Regressives!"

Love it!

104 Intestinal Fortitude  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:39:41pm

Is the idiots name Stoltz or Soltz. Geez I keep messing it up.

105 Jimash  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:40:22pm

Fauxgressives . They are all phonies.

106 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:41:07pm

re: #98 jebIII

Hi

#67 Retired Captain. Many military officers are prior enlisted. It is entirely possible to spend 10yrs enlisted get a commission and then retire as a Capt.

I am retired from the AF. I have always had the understanding that it is inappropriate to attend a political gathering in uniform. However, I must admire this guy's courage. The yearlyKos panelist was clearly inappropriate.

JEBIII


What about the military people in uniform at the countless leftist kook demonstrations in Washington, and elsewhere, many of them in uniform, giving political speeches?

This is what bothers me, This is a HUGE deal, when someone asks a simple question, yet military people who the left have hoodwinked, can give speeches at anti-war, anti-American rallys, with impunity, while earing the uniform.

107 Capt_Faust  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:41:23pm

re: #99 Oh no...Sand People!

re: #92 Capt_Faust

"not in MY uniform..."


Piss off Mutrha Jr.

No really, the dude snuck into John's apartment and stole his Uniform...well, maybe not.

Yes it is amazing that the SGT took his uniform to the tailor, made it up for the SGT perfectly, replaced the rank, unit, and other badges/patches/pins/clasps and showed up at the KOS rally...

Got to hand it to the NCOs, they really know how to make something out of nothing...it's no wonder how this former Capt is so pissed...

108 Fatal  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:41:33pm

What I find amazing about this is that the moderator keeps threatening the soldier (seargent) with a "Captain to Seargent" talk and then thanks the members of the panel and the Kos Convention "On behalf of the Army", tells the soldier that he will "never again use MY uniform for political purposes", threatens him repeatedly with discipline, etc, etc, etc

I am pretty sure that although the UCMJ prohibits political activism in uniform - and does so to make sure that people don't think that the army is endorsing a particular political position, party or candidate, that same prohibition applies to making similarly unauthorized statements implying army endorsement, even OUT of uniform.

So I certainly hope some folks are looking closely at the "captain's" statements, representations, threats etc. Because if the Seargent is in trouble for using the uniform, the captain should equally be in trouble for using his position and rank in the manner he did.

P.S. An army captain is an O-3, a fairly low-level officer, usually with 4-8 years of service, so all his blustering is a bit much and should be reserved for those above his pay grade. I know that if an officer from another unit treated one of my enlisted folks like this guy did the seargent, he would have had his a** reemed by my C.O.

109 Beagle  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:41:43pm

It appears to be Soltz, not Stoltz, on his PAC's website depicting him in uniform holding an M-16.

110 Racer X  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:41:43pm

re: #88 Ginn

You are correct - this is simpy a scare tactic to raise money. War is never the first option. Look at North Korea. Current diplomacy is working. If war was the first option North Korea would be warm glass by now.

Iran has had many opportunities over the past 28 years to demonstrate they are a peaceful country. They have proven they are not.

111 jcm  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:42:04pm

Marxist, Stalinist, Leninist, Maoist, they are stlll all....

COMMUNISTS!

And enemies of LIBERTY!

112 canadianally  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:42:05pm

The soldier asked a question about a strategy (the surge), not a political question. Sounds legal to me.

113 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:42:21pm

re: #103 Ginn

re: #95 DesertSage

re: #85 Killgore Trout

re: #83 DesertSageI'm just happy that they've given up using the term "liberal". I'd like to reclaim it.

Yeah but why "Progressive"? Do they want to sound like they're hip and open minded?
They certainly haven't progressed, so how can they profess to claim that title?I thing "Regressive" would be more apt.

"Regressives!"

Love it!

It's all true, they are using 'Taqiyya' on us with the term 'progressive' just as they have crammed the color 'Red' onto us to make us seem the bad guys. Same way they are trying to win brownie points by saying they will 'Remove the tax cuts'! The libs LOVE them for that...

In the last days, bad will be good, and good will be bad...and if that is the case, I am one evil SOB then.

114 saintarctangent  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:43:18pm

re: #98 jebIII

He doesn't look old enough to be prior enlisted to me.

115 DesertSage  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:44:31pm

“The Military and Progressives Regressives: Are They Really That Different?”.

There...fixed it.
And the answer is - A resounding yes!

116 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:44:51pm

Why can military people march with anti-war, anti-America protesters, stand up, while in uniform, and give political speeches aginst America, and our military, while in uniform, and nothing is said or done about it, while this man asks a simple question, while in uniform, and he's getting raked over the coals.

117 kreigwagon  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:45:14pm

re: #93 saintarctangent

re: #68 Beagle


Why is Soltz allowed to appear in uniform at his PAC's website?

Someone might want to screen cap that before it goes away mysteriously.


What a loser. Wraps himself in the flag while vehemently criticizing the US and the Commander in Chief. No matter how honorable and dedicated his service was, he'll always be remembered as someone who stabbed his fellow soldiers in the back - sort of like Kerry. For all his exposure, I don't think I would want to live with that on my conscience.


Why is Soltz allowed to appear in uniform at his PAC's website?
His right to do so, but we have a right to call him on it uniformed or not. Anyone who is/has serving/served knows that during time of war, that actions/words are are out for all to see. Whether you agree/disagree with an ideology is second to to the best interest of the country, and especially now. You Viet Nam war vets know this to be true. The Silent Majority supported you guys but a few big mouth libs pressed the opinion to give us that "Peace with Honor" bullshit, and the Viet Nam war was "lost".

118 Capt_Faust  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:45:49pm

re: #106 republic


What about the military people in uniform at the countless leftist kook demonstrations in Washington, and elsewhere, many of them in uniform, giving political speeches?

This is what bothers me, This is a HUGE deal, when someone asks a simple question, yet military people who the left have hoodwinked, can give speeches at anti-war, anti-American rallys, with impunity, while earing the uniform.


Well DUH...these guys don't count. Even if they lie about there records, or if they are surface warfare vs. naval aviation (wink wink) or other matters...they oppose BUSH=HITLER and therefore must be always correct. In fact they can show up in uniform, and not face any penalties whatsoever...

You just don't understand the KOS written rule that all people are equal, but some are more equal than others...

119 NY Nana  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:46:41pm

Guess who's coming to dinner the koskid's blogger event! Shrillary!

Charles

Were you invited? :)

120 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:47:09pm

re: #118 Capt_Faust

re: #106 republic


What about the military people in uniform at the countless leftist kook demonstrations in Washington, and elsewhere, many of them in uniform, giving political speeches?This is what bothers me, This is a HUGE deal, when someone asks a simple question, yet military people who the left have hoodwinked, can give speeches at anti-war, anti-American rallys, with impunity, while earing the uniform.


Well DUH...these guys don't count. Even if they lie about there records, or if they are surface warfare vs. naval aviation (wink wink) or other matters...they oppose BUSH=HITLER and therefore must be always correct. In fact they can show up in uniform, and not face any penalties whatsoever...

You just don't understand the KOS written rule that all people are equal, but some are more equal than others...

You know the ACLU has already targeted this guy, and the subpoena is in the mail.

121 Slumbering Behemoth  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:47:13pm

re: #64 missouri boy

re: #24 'Nam Grunt

Call me naive, but I will never understand how Americans can downgrade our Military when we put ourselves in the face of danger unconditionally for Americans, (shaking my head)!

Real Americans don't downgrade our Military...........it's only the assholes , who have to tell you they love this country.
Kind of like iSLam, having to tell you, they are a religion of peace.

Ditto that, I love you guys, and not in a 'don't ask, don't tell' kinda way.

Still can't get the dang vid to work.

122 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:47:42pm

Some days all this insanity by the left makes me want to drink, a lot.

123 Killian Bundy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:49:43pm

re: #116 republic

Why can military people march with anti-war, anti-America protesters, stand up, while in uniform, and give political speeches aginst America, and our military, while in uniform, and nothing is said or done about it, while this man asks a simple question, while in uniform, and he's getting raked over the coals.

That's a good point, there does seem to be a double standard.

/that said, there are Army regulations and, IMHO, it's unseemly no matter which side of the political spectrum you're on

124 Intestinal Fortitude  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:49:48pm

re: #122 republic


That's the only liberal thing I'll do :-)

125 jcm  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:49:49pm

re: #122 republic

Some days all this insanity by the left makes me want to drink, a lot.

Makes me what to go the range and make sure I can put lead in the 10 ring. The course we are on left unchecked that skill is going to come in very handy.

126 missouri boy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:49:50pm

re: #122 republic

Some days all this insanity by the left makes me want to drink, a lot.

Me too.... Someday , I'll buy you a beer....budweiser (missouri beer)

127 Q-Burn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:50:07pm

re: #116 republic

Why can military people march with anti-war, anti-America protesters, stand up, while in uniform, and give political speeches aginst America, and our military, while in uniform, and nothing is said or done about it, while this man asks a simple question, while in uniform, and he's getting raked over the coals.

I have read about soldiers being punished for attending or speaking at anti-war rallies. Sorry, don't have a link.

128 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:50:20pm

Can anyone find any pictures that may show Stoltz at any of the various anti-war, anti-American protests in Washington D.C., or elsewhere, where he clearly didn't have any problems with someone in uniform giving political speeches?

129 cblesz  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:50:30pm

Can we please stop calling these people "progressives"? They are nothing but socialist freaking psychopaths. God I cannot stand Markos. He is such a little turd. Progressives? About what, specifically?

130 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:50:39pm

re: #116 republic

Why can military people march with anti-war, anti-America protesters, stand up, while in uniform, and give political speeches aginst America, and our military, while in uniform, and nothing is said or done about it, while this man asks a simple question, while in uniform, and he's getting raked over the coals.

He asked the wrong question?

131 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:51:02pm

re: #123 Killian Bundy

re: #116 republic


Why can military people march with anti-war, anti-America protesters, stand up, while in uniform, and give political speeches aginst America, and our military, while in uniform, and nothing is said or done about it, while this man asks a simple question, while in uniform, and he's getting raked over the coals.

That's a good point, there does seem to be a double standard.

/that said, there are Army regulations and, IMHO, it's unseemly no matter which side of the political spectrum you're on

I agree.

132 missouri boy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:51:24pm

re: #125 jcm

re: #122 republic


Some days all this insanity by the left makes me want to drink, a lot.

Makes me what to go the range and make sure I can put lead in the 10 ring. The course we are on left unchecked that skill is going to come in very handy.


Practise makes perfect........

133 kreigwagon  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:51:27pm

re: #122 republic

Some days all this insanity by the left makes me want to drink, a lot.

You have to drink (to get) idiotic, the left does not require any assistance to achieve this.

134 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:51:38pm
135 meMarc  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:52:02pm

re: #100 jcm

I changed the subject line to Don't listen to Wes Clark.

136 albusteve  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:52:25pm

re: #122 republic

Some days all this insanity by the left makes me want to drink, a lot.

I'm usually well buzzed these days...

137 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:52:40pm

re: #125 jcm

re: #122 republic

Some days all this insanity by the left makes me want to drink, a lot.

Makes me what to go the range and make sure I can put lead in the 10 ring. The course we are on left unchecked that skill is going to come in very handy.

Then when the bullets run out, I can put my Spartan Sword to use.
"Tonight we dine in BERKELEY!"

138 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:53:18pm

re: #129 cblesz

Can we please stop calling these people "progressives"? They are nothing but socialist freaking psychopaths. God I cannot stand Markos. He is such a little turd. Progressives? About what, specifically?

In tearing America down and raising the Communist standard. They are progressing quite nicely.

139 scaramouche  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:53:29pm
140 jcm  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:53:43pm

re: #135 meMarc

re: #100 jcm

I changed the subject line to Don't listen to Wes Clark.

LOL!

141 Intestinal Fortitude  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:53:50pm

Judging from the uniform Soltz is wearing, it appears to me that he is nothing more than a dirty nasty leg.

142 Jimash  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:53:53pm

The player must be overwhelmed buut I saw some of it and was glad to see the SGT.
In the clip we saw yesterday Soltz was extremely rude to him.
The Kosbats think he wasn't real. But a good look at im confirms that he is no Jesse Macbeth.

143 Paul  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:54:15pm

The Kosites kicked that sergeant out for being in uniform and thus being somehow "ineligible" to make a statement in support of the war. Of course, if that same person had been a civilian, the Kosites would have taunted him as a "chickenhawk", then kicked him out. The bottom line is the uniform was irrelevant, the message was the problem.

BTW the Left has never had a problem with people in uniform making "progressive" political statements. I remember watching a gay/lesbian demonstration in D.C. several years ago where a number of people in uniform "came out" on stage to the cheers of the crowd. I'm certain that if this sergeant had condemned the war in Iraq, he would have been lionized by the Kosites.

144 pat  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:54:17pm

From KoS, see the update:


From what the guy said, he was a maintenance soldier (probably a vehicle or equipment maintenance MOS), and a reservist (not active at that time). He definitely should not have been there in uniform (it's against military regulations).

At the same time, the people who were in charge probably should have taken him aside and said something to the fact that they do not have the information he was requesting, but they would get it for him, and that they do not want to take any money from him.

As a maintenance soldier he rarely would have had the chance to leave the military base and talk to Iraqis. Somebody should have asked him if he spoke Arabic (highly doubtful). They should have asked where he got his information. It's also highly doubtful he would have any access to any kind of intelligence (numbers of Iraqi deaths etc).

Wish I would have been there - I would have liked to "chat" with him.....

There you have it. Anna, the poster, has it all figured out. The fact the she is not a soldier, much less a maintenance tech, speaks no Arabic, no knows Iraqis, and has never been to Iraq does not detract from her ad hominem one bit, does it?

145 Capt_Faust  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:54:52pm

re: #120 Oh no...Sand People!

You know the ACLU has already targeted this guy, and the subpoena is in the mail.


Yeah...or some KOS kid is off whining away crying about the injustice suffered at the evil BushHilter military improperly flexing military might toward civilians...

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaa Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa....boo hoo hoo....Bush and his goon squad....Bwaaaaaaaa Bwaaaaaaa....such evil injustice .........Bwaaaaaaaaaaa Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa..........my life is so unfulfilling...... Bwaaaaaaaaaa....

/ Call the WAAAAAaamulance... whining bunch of maggots....

146 hazzyday  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:55:17pm

This is what the Democratic party will look like if it let's itself be freely colored by KoS or Moveon. These lines of thought run heavily all through DailyKos. It is the way they think. DailyKos is an organization that could bear a lot of fruit for Ph.D doctoral student in psychology. One would have to question anyone who participates freely in such work that results in the display at that forum. chenzen?

147 NiceLass  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:56:14pm
Killgore

From your link:


Jon Soltz has quickly become one of the most authoritative voices on veterans issues and military issues. He has been interviewed by national outlets such as the Associated Press, Washington Post, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, TIME, Newsweek, among others, and in dozens of local outlets. He has made numerous media appearances including Jim Lehrer’s Newshour on PBS, CNN. MSNBC, FOX News and ABC News and Nightline, and national radio programs including Air America Radio, the Ed Schultz Show, the Bill Press Show, Alan Colmes Show, and Mancow in the Morning. Jon is a frequent contributor to Countdown with Keith Olbermann.

I thought they weren't supposed to use the military as a political platform.

Jon you f'in hypocrit.

148 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:56:18pm

re: #146 hazzyday

This is what the Democratic party will look like if it let's itself be freely colored by KoS or Moveon. These lines of thought run heavily all through DailyKos. It is the way they think. DailyKos is an organization that could bear a lot of fruit for Ph.D doctoral student in psychology. One would have to question anyone who participates freely in such work that results in the display at that forum. chenzen?


Yep, they sure did Ned Lamont a world of good, not.

149 usmc1968  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:56:57pm

The Vietnam War was not lost!

WE WERE ORDERED NOT TO WIN!

I'm old and tired--LEAVE THE SARGENT ALONE.

150 meMarc  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:57:54pm

re: #140 jcm

Problems is, if the White House is paying any attention at all, they're probably just counting the number of emails from that website. Doubt is anybody is actually reading them. I must say, it would be funny to see that subject line among all the other ones. Let hope somebody is looking. Might give them a chuckle.

151 Capt_Faust  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:57:57pm

re: #137 Oh no...Sand People!
/BLOCKQUOTE>Then when the bullets run out, I can put my Spartan Sword to use.
"Tonight we dine in BERKELEY!"

ROFL....A HAHAHAHA....

/ You must say it in a gravely powerfully voice...otherwise you come off as a Berkeley guy (with a voice like huckleberry hound...)

152 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:58:09pm

re: #149 usmc1968

The Vietnam War was not lost!

WE WERE ORDERED NOT TO WIN!

I'm old and tired--LEAVE THE SARGENT ALONE.

America kicked their commie asses in nearly every aspect of that war, the war was lost by, you guessed it, leftist Democrats, and leftist Americans.

My how the times haven't changed at all.

153 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:58:26pm

re: #144 pat

I took a little jaunt over to KOS too. (btw.. never eat a juicy peach at the keyboard).

Amazing, isn't it. This "Anna" person. I wonder what kind of "chat" she thinks she would've had with this soldier.

/I know what kind of chat I would of have with her.

154 The Other Les  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:58:50pm

John Weeks has updated his I-35W bridge page with new photos:

The photo above shows the two piers on the south end of the I-35W bridge. Engineers are focusing on the metal joint just above the pier on the right side as the location of the failure. Below is a close-up of the southwest pier of the bridge. Notice the amount of rust. The triangle piece of metal is the top of the bridge bearing, a device that is supposed to allow the bridge to slide back and forth as the bridge expands and contracts during heating and cooling cycles. The bearings had failed on this bridge many years ago. This prevented the bridge from moving freely, so it had to flex and bind instead, putting additional loads on the structure.

155 kreigwagon  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:59:15pm

re: #149 usmc1968


I'm old and tired

You sure could have fooled me, there's still plenty of fire left in ya

156 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 12:59:46pm

PROGRESSIVES

*It's our Party and we'll cry if we want to

157 justnobody  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:00:12pm

re: #58 Ginn

This is Wesley Clark's site.


President Bush, I demand that you stop the rush to war with Iran. I urge you to use every option available to defuse tensions with Iran -- diplomatic, political, and economic -- before even considering military force. Military force must be viewed as the last resort -- not the first option. War is not the answer.

What a shame they didn't think of that when they bombed Serbia for standing up to Albanian terrorists...

158 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:00:35pm

re: #154 The Other Les

John Weeks has updated his I-35W bridge page with new photos:


The photo above shows the two piers on the south end of the I-35W bridge. Engineers are focusing on the metal joint just above the pier on the right side as the location of the failure. Below is a close-up of the southwest pier of the bridge. Notice the amount of rust. The triangle piece of metal is the top of the bridge bearing, a device that is supposed to allow the bridge to slide back and forth as the bridge expands and contracts during heating and cooling cycles. The bearings had failed on this bridge many years ago. This prevented the bridge from moving freely, so it had to flex and bind instead, putting additional loads on the structure.


The left's reasoning?

The Iraq War and Global Warming.

These people are seemingly too stupid to survive.

159 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:01:10pm

re: #157 justnobody

re: #58 Ginn

This is Wesley Clark's site.



President Bush, I demand that you stop the rush to war with Iran. I urge you to use every option available to defuse tensions with Iran -- diplomatic, political, and economic -- before even considering military force. Military force must be viewed as the last resort -- not the first option. War is not the answer.
What a shame they didn't think of that when they bombed Serbia for standing up to Albanian terrorists...

Wow! So true!

160 TimeQuake  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:01:32pm

re: #137 Oh no...Sand People!

"Tonight we dine in BERKELEY!"

LOL
I just saw that movie last night. Lot more sci-fi than I thought it would be. But I did like the Spartans sense of humor.

161 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:01:38pm

re: #157 justnobody

re: #58 Ginn


This is Wesley Clark's site.



President Bush, I demand that you stop the rush to war with Iran. I urge you to use every option available to defuse tensions with Iran -- diplomatic, political, and economic -- before even considering military force. Military force must be viewed as the last resort -- not the first option. War is not the answer.

What a shame they didn't think of that when they bombed Serbia for standing up to Albanian terrorists...


The Fort Dix 6 were who Wes Clark defended, or at least one of them was.

Way to go Wes!

162 Q-Burn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:02:06pm

re: #134 savage_nation

re: #119 NY Nana

Guess who's coming to dinner the koskid's blogger event! Shrillary!

Charles

Were you invited? :)

I would be wearing a necklace of garlic if I were going....

Hi everyone :)

It already happened, she got the kid gloves treatment


CHICAGO -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) fielded a series of questions on topics ranging from domestic wiretapping to education policy from a packed room of bloggers here at the YearlyKos convention.

While Clinton has not enjoyed the friendliest relationship with the blogosphere during her political career -- a tension resulting largely from her 2002 vote for the use of force resolution against Iraq -- the crowd tended toward praise rather than protest when it came to questioning the New York senator.

The only moment of tension came from a man from San Francisco who asked Clinton whether she would be in favor or repealing four major pieces of legislation enacted during the Clinton administration -- the Defense of Marriage Act, the Telecommunications Act, NAFTA and the 1996 welfare reform law.

Clinton defended DOMA ("it served a very important purpose") and welfare reform ("the positives far outweigh the negatives"), passed to former Vice President Al Gore on telecommunications ("Al was very involved in designing and pushing that through") and acknowledged that NAFTA wasn't ideal ("it did not realize the benefits it was promised.")

163 Pawn of the Oppressor  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:03:16pm

re: #81 republic


As a maintenance soldier he rarely would have had the chance to leave the military base and talk to Iraqis. Somebody should have asked him if he spoke Arabic (highly doubtful). They should have asked where he got his information. It's also highly doubtful he would have any access to any kind of intelligence (numbers of Iraqi deaths etc).

Wish I would have been there - I would have liked to "chat" with him.....


There you have it. Anna, the poster, has it all figured out. The fact the she is not a soldier, much less a maintenance tech, speaks no Arabic, no knows Iraqis, and has never been to Iraq does not detract from her ad hominem one bit, does it?

Anna is an idiot. Most of our guys don't speak Arabic, for obvious reasons - that's why the word "terp" is part enough of soldier's lingo that you can find it on any .mil blog.

Numbers of Iraqi deaths is not "intelligence" like something the CIA produces, it comes up off the battlefield and it's a field number. You can pick that much up just reading Michael Yon.

As for where he was based... If he was in any kind of forward base, he was in Iraq and knew Iraqis. Even changing the oil on the milk delivery truck deep in the Green Zone, I'd imagine you have to know at least a couple.

She's an awful snob, this girl.

164 thebigolddog  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:03:27pm

You can't use your uniform unless you're Wes Clark and you are promoting WesPac:

[Link: securingamerica.com...]

What was that he said about blackmail?

165 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:04:21pm

re: #145 Capt_Faust

re: #120 Oh no...Sand People!

You know the ACLU has already targeted this guy, and the subpoena is in the mail.


Yeah...or some KOS kid is off whining away crying about the injustice suffered at the evil BushHilter military improperly flexing military might toward civilians...

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaa Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa....boo hoo hoo....Bush and his goon squad....Bwaaaaaaaa Bwaaaaaaa....such evil injustice .........Bwaaaaaaaaaaa Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa..........my life is so unfulfilling...... Bwaaaaaaaaaa....

/ Call the WAAAAAaamulance... whining bunch of maggots....

"Mommy, It was so offensive to hear what he was saying. This baby killer got up and said that the "Surge" in Iraq was working!..He is such a Bush follower, Mom, I spit at him when he walked by, I even think MTV got it on CAMERA! I'll be like, Paris or something, and famous! Oh, and uh, I need a couple hundred more dollars to get me through the weekend. We are staging a protest to fight Bush's Empire of Imperialism and Social Injustice, and I am supposed to supply the party favors. Oh, and Mom, I need another appointment with the Dr. My piercing is infected again...what? Oh yeah, I'll let everybody know that you have almost finished the Che doilies. We are going to be SO NOW!"

*spit*

166 THX-42  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:04:31pm

This soldier reminds me of the Chinese guy at Tiananmen Square, standing up alone and ramrod straight in front of a long line of ChiCom tanks. All it takes is one freedom fighter to stand in front of the Daily KosKoms to show how cowardly and impotent they really are.

167 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:05:46pm

re: #166 THX-42

This soldier reminds me of the Chinese guy at Tiananmen Square, standing up alone and ramrod straight in front of a long line of ChiCom tanks. All it takes is one freedom fighter to stand in front of the Daily KosKoms to show how cowardly and impotent they really are.

Ahunh!

168 Killian Bundy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:06:03pm

Kos like his uniform too.

/after all, he did serve a party tour in Germany

169 kreigwagon  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:06:21pm

re: #166 THX-42

This soldier reminds me of the Chinese guy at Tiananmen Square, standing up alone and ramrod straight in front of a long line of ChiCom tanks. All it takes is one freedom fighter Real American to stand in front of the Daily KosKoms to show how cowardly and impotent they really are.

There, fixed.

170 Prisoner of Diesel  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:06:28pm

re: #149 usmc1968

I had two uncles that served tours in Vietnam. You said the same thing they did.

171 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:06:54pm
172 Q-Burn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:08:52pm

re: #171 savage_nation

I think there are some very smart Republican strategists keeping their powder dry, hoping and praying she sails to the nomination.

173 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:08:56pm

re: #171 savage_nation

And that whore is going to be Commander in Chief if Kos gets it's way

Think, Ned lamont, there budy.

These Democrats are too stupid to remember what happens when they get the D Kos endorsement of political death.

174 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:10:16pm
175 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:11:00pm
176 missouri boy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:11:34pm

re: #174 savage_nation

re: #173 republic


re: #171 savage_nation

And that whore is going to be Commander in Chief if Kos gets it's way

Think, Ned lamont, there budy.

These Democrats are too stupid to remember what happens when they get the D Kos endorsement of political death.


I must have HDS, I just see red everytime that POS shows up anywhere.

Every time I see her (it)... I check my wallet.

177 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:11:36pm

I'm telling you all, neither Hillary nor Barack Hussein are going to get the racist, sexist male Democrat vote.

That's got to be near 30 million votes, and no real sexist, racist male Democrat is going to vote for them.

I've been hearing it for months.

178 m  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:11:48pm

re: #171 savage_nation

Now now... whore is a lil' harsh. 'Specially since her hubby doesn't even wanna...

Hey Savage!

179 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:12:08pm

Bizarro World eh?

When a soldier is shouted down then removed from a "liberal" progressive conference?

Especially when their "conference" was how to step up as civilians to do their part to "help" our soldiers after the war.

Amazing. Just... amazing.

180 Capt_Faust  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:12:10pm

re: #165 Oh no...Sand People!
"

Mommy, It was so offensive to hear what he was saying. This baby killer got up and said that the "Surge" in Iraq was working!..He is such a Bush follower, Mom, I spit at him when he walked by, I even think MTV got it on CAMERA! I'll be like, Paris or something, and famous! Oh, and uh, I need a couple hundred more dollars to get me through the weekend. We are staging a protest to fight Bush's Empire of Imperialism and Social Injustice, and I am supposed to supply the party favors. Oh, and Mom, I need another appointment with the Dr. My piercing is infected again...what? Oh yeah, I'll let everybody know that you have almost finished the Che doilies. We are going to be SO NOW!"

*spit*

ROLF...ahhhhhh haaaaa ha ha....

You're killing me over here, and not in the Mumia kind of way...

Congratulations, you have just described over 98.34% of the "educated" "youts" who attend my alma matter. I take it you either know someone like that, recently experienced yourself, or have such a talent for sarcasm that you know how to hit every point.

I've been having a bit of a long arduous day at work today, but you have singlehandedly made me laugh out loud and changed the entire outlook of this weekend. Thanks.


/

We are staging a protest to fight Bush's Empire of Imperialism and Social Injustice, and I am supposed to supply the party favors. Oh, and Mom, I need another appointment with the Dr. My piercing is infected again...

too long for a rotating title, but I like it anyway...

181 Prisoner of Diesel  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:12:16pm

re: #172 Q-Burn

re: #171 savage_nation

I think there are some very smart Republican strategists keeping their powder dry, hoping and praying she sails to the nomination.

As a registered Republican, I find that pretty scary. We are much better at shooting ourselves in the foot, and punishing our guys than going on offense.

182 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:12:43pm
183 kreigwagon  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:13:14pm

Vice President Al Gore on telecommunications ("Al was very involved in designing and pushing that through"

Just exactly did this act accomplish? Ma Belle is coming back with a vegence.
/ATT-Air Touch-TCG- PACBell-SWBell-Cingular back to ATT?
and my cell service still sucks when I'm at home

184 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:13:28pm

re: #174 savage_nation

re: #173 republic


re: #171 savage_nation

And that whore is going to be Commander in Chief if Kos gets it's way

Think, Ned lamont, there budy.

These Democrats are too stupid to remember what happens when they get the D Kos endorsement of political death.


I must have HDS, I just see red everytime that POS shows up anywhere.

I'm telling you, Kos is going to be the "kiss of political death" for these Dem candidates.

The funny thing, is they still won't learn.

The great majority of Americans are not leftist kooks, like they are sworn to be.

185 Logic Probe  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:13:55pm

Ok, Iclicked on Video and View about a dozen times each, to no avail. Is it me or IE at fault? I'd really like to see an NCO, in uniform, at a Kos party. Right or wrong, I'd like to see it. A little help here?

186 29Victor  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:14:44pm

The anti-war left need the military to keep their mouth shut so that they can pretend to speak in their best interest.

187 Jimash  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:14:51pm

It's funky. There must be traffic. Just wait and try again.

188 tblot  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:15:25pm

re: #158 republic

sounds like they could of fix the problem year ago when we were not Iraq

189 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:15:25pm

re: #179 Ginn

Bizarro World eh?

When a soldier is shouted down then removed from a "liberal" progressive conference?

Especially when their "conference" was how to step up as civilians to do their part to "help" our soldiers after the war.

Amazing. Just... amazing.


Absolutely nothing that the left does surprises me anymore.

190 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:15:43pm
191 Render  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:16:09pm

Here's what I'm getting from this so far...

Both Capt Soltz and the Sargent are currently in the reserves.

It would appear that Soltz is currently, or was recently, a DI officer training troops in logistics and convoy protection at Fort Dix, before they go to Iraq. He's a logistics staff officer. Otherwise known as a REMF. Worse than the usual REMF, he's a REMF with a bad attitude and a very poor grasp of the military history that was supposedly one of his college majors.

The Sargent is 101st ABN (SCREAMING EAGLES!*), and a maintenance tech. This means he's also a REMF, of sorts. The difference is that the Sargent served his year in Iraq last year, fixing combat damaged vehicles. His CIB is very obvious on his uniform. I haven't seen a CIB in Soltz's uniform pictures, yet.

Soltz has an intellectual investment in this. He's written that the Surge would be a failure, and he's written and spoken that the Surge is currently failing, in spite of evidence to the contrary. Evidence that the Sargent was trying to present to the panel. Evidence that makes Soltz look like an uneducated idiot about the very subject he claims to know.

By being a moderate on that panel, and throwing his rank in the very first volley, Soltz is far more guilty of disgracing the uniform of the US Army than that Sargent was.

Soltz tried to pull rank while he was out of uniform. I think there might even be a little something about that very subject in the Geneva Codes.

===

About that little military history screw up of both Clarke and Soltz while they sat on that panel. There are two tank battles that rank far greater than the slaughter at 73 Easting. Kursk 1943 and the Sinai 1973. The Iraqis at 73 Easting hardly even got off a shot, for the most part, they were destroyed by enemies they never even saw.

Both of those guys have degrees in military history. for them to have made such an obvious mistake brings into stark question just what exactly were they learning in the military history classes they attended?

===

*Sorry for the out of place caps lock. Dad taught me that when you say SCREAMING EAGLES, you say it loud and proud.

===

Fair disclosure. I am not now, and never have served in the military. I'm an Army brat and I read a lot. If my father was still alive Captain Soltz would right now be answering pointed questions from officers he didn't know existed the day before.

And I'll be glad to step outside and have a son of the RSM to Captain talk with Soltz, anytime, anyplace.

BRING
IT,
R

192 shoeless  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:17:52pm

I wonder if the moderator would have been just as big of a jackass to a soldier who he considered to be "progressive."

193 The Other Les  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:18:03pm

re: #186 29Victor

The anti-war left need the military to keep their mouth shut so that they can pretend to speak in their best interest.

I suspect that one of the reasons that folks on the Left are into tree-hugging is that a tree cannot tell them to f**k off.

194 socialcircle  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:18:16pm

Protesting in uniform (I think only 1 is legit)

195 lowandslow  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:18:38pm

Finally got the video to work. Man is that Soltz one slimy bastard. This guy doesn't care about Iraq, America or anything else but John Soltz. A guy so full of himself he doesn't have a clue what a pompous ass he really is.

196 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:19:09pm
197 29Victor  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:19:16pm

re: #179 Ginn

Bizarro World eh?

When a soldier is shouted down then removed from a "liberal" progressive conference?

Especially when their "conference" was how to step up as civilians to do their part to "help" our soldiers after the war.

Amazing. Just... amazing.

The "peace"-nicks know exactly the kind of support the soldiers want/need and decided a long time ago that it didn't fit their agenda so they make stuff up. And they're sure as hell not going to let some dogface point this out.

198 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:19:37pm

re: #134 savage_nation

Hey, savage!

199 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:20:10pm
200 grumpy old codger  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:20:12pm

Re #77 Ginn

Oh, My God, this bozo is a reservist! Total active duty combat time, one year (two short tours, two years apart). Oh, and he was activated for a WHOLE 365 days at Dix to train soldiers going to war. Otherwise, his experience has been restricted to Basic and one weekend/month and twoweeks/year. I guess this vast amount of military experience has given him the equivalence of a life time of active duty. I've served with men who have spent more time in the latrine while in the Army than this guy has total.
But, am I going overboard? Probably, because I forgot that the superior value of his belief system and his degree in history/poli sci elevate him far above us mere mortals. This guy is just another J. Fng Kerry, who just hasn't met his rich Teresa yet. I'd watch him as I think he's a snake in thegrass.

201 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:20:15pm

re: #191 Render


It would appear that Soltz is currently, or was recently, a DI officer training troops in logistics and convoy protection at Fort Dix, before they go to Iraq. He's a logistics staff officer. Otherwise known as a REMF. Worse than the usual REMF, he's a REMF with a bad attitude and a very poor grasp of the military history that was supposedly one of his college majors.

The irony of that is unreal, the islamic terrorists that Wes Clark defended against the Christians, were who wanted, planned, conspired, to kill as many soldiers as they could at Fort Dix not too long ago.

Oh the painful irony.

202 m  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:20:43pm

re: #182 [[[[savage_nation]]]]

Yeop! Loved the commentary :-D

203 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:21:14pm

re: #193 The Other Les

re: #186 29Victor


The anti-war left need the military to keep their mouth shut so that they can pretend to speak in their best interest.

I suspect that one of the reasons that folks on the Left are into tree-hugging is that a tree cannot tell them to f**k off.


That may be true, but I know that a Caterpilar sure knows how to tell a leftist to f@#k off.

:)

204 socialcircle  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:22:15pm
205 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:22:18pm
206 Spartacus  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:22:31pm

So the same liberals who fight tooth and nail to keep cities from enforcing "federal immigration law" are somehow so sure of their constitutional duty to enforce military uniform laws?

These guys are outright nuts.

207 Intestinal Fortitude  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:23:25pm

re: #191 Render

The Sargent is 101st ABN (SCREAMING EAGLES!*), and a maintenance tech. This means he's also a REMF, of sorts. The difference is that the Sargent served his year in Iraq last year, fixing combat damaged vehicles. His CIB is very obvious on his uniform.

The Sareant was 101st when in theater. It's his combat patch on his right shoulder is Old Abe. He doesn't have a CIB, its an Air Assault badge with unit flash behind it.

208 29Victor  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:23:40pm

The fact that he ever wore the uniform and that he is anti-war is all the qualifications the left need to put him in front of a camera.

209 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:23:54pm

re: #206 Spartacus

So the same liberals who fight tooth and nail to keep cities from enforcing "federal immigration law" are somehow so sure of their constitutional duty to enforce military uniform laws?

These guys are outright nuts.

You're being very modest.

210 Thanos  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:24:44pm

Render, great post there.

I was thinking about this a bit ago... but I would be truly surprised if we found out that the moonbats who burnt the soldier in effigy in Oregon a while back were not in attendance in this audience.

211 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:25:47pm

re: #206 Spartacus

So the same liberals who fight tooth and nail to keep cities from enforcing "federal immigration law" are somehow so sure of their constitutional duty to enforce military uniform laws?

These guys are outright nuts.

Yep. You got it!

212 shoeless  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:26:00pm

re: #196 savage_nation

re: #192 shoeless


I wonder if the moderator would have been just as big of a jackass to a soldier who he considered to be "progressive."

No, the mod would have his nose so far up the guys ass he would be able to smell what the guy had for lunch.

That is my thought as well.

Not only that; how can this guy sit there on that stage along with those other panelists and cite polls taken of military personnel showing that there is 30% who think this, 30% who think that and 30% who thin the other and then turn around and say "oh, but you can't have a political opinion about anything while in uniform." ? what the heck is that? they are USING THE SOLDIERS POLITICAL OPINION IN POLLS TO ATTEMPT TO MAKE THEIR POINT! get a life Clark! I'm all for having a politically silent military, but don't be a hypocrite, Clark and Stoltz...

213 Slumbering Behemoth  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:26:00pm

re: #185 Logic Probe

Funny. I was waiting all morning for it to work on Firefox and it didn't. Then I dusted off the IE and it worked right away. And wow, that Stoltz is a real piece of work. No surprise though, he is in bed with the koslims after all.

214 socialcircle  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:26:17pm
215 Ginn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:26:21pm

re: #191 Render

Terrific post, Render.

216 Render  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:26:28pm

re: #207 Intestinal Fortitude

Is that what that is? I wondered why it wasn't blue, but thought it was one of those new uniform things...

NEW
MATH,
R

217 Intestinal Fortitude  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:26:38pm

re: #200 grumpy old codger

I've served with men who have spent more time in the latrine while in the Army than this guy has total.

LOL.

218 Thanos  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:27:57pm

OT: the latest code name for Al Qaeda aligned Taliban in Pakistan... "urdu speaking Taliban".. yeah.. the Pakistani Taliban are not allied... I believe that... sure.....

/removes DKOS tinfoil hat

219 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:28:06pm
220 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:28:12pm

re: #212 shoeless

I'm all for having a politically silent military, but don't be a hypocrite, Clark and Stoltz...

Like I said earlier, the irony can't get much higher, in that Wes Clark helped free some of the very islamic terrorists who wanted to kill soldiers where Stoltz was.

221 Intestinal Fortitude  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:29:24pm

re: #216 Render

No worries. Him being in the 101st and not being air assault qualified makes for a tough life under a 1SG in that Division.

222 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:31:43pm

re: #180 Capt_Faust

re: #165 Oh no...Sand People!
"

Mommy, It was so offensive to hear what he was saying. This baby killer got up and said that the "Surge" in Iraq was working!..He is such a Bush follower, Mom, I spit at him when he walked by, I even think MTV got it on CAMERA! I'll be like, Paris or something, and famous! Oh, and uh, I need a couple hundred more dollars to get me through the weekend. We are staging a protest to fight Bush's Empire of Imperialism and Social Injustice, and I am supposed to supply the party favors. Oh, and Mom, I need another appointment with the Dr. My piercing is infected again...what? Oh yeah, I'll let everybody know that you have almost finished the Che doilies. We are going to be SO NOW!"*spit*

ROLF...ahhhhhh haaaaa ha ha....

You're killing me over here, and not in the Mumia kind of way...

Congratulations, you have just described over 98.34% of the "educated" "youts" who attend my alma matter. I take it you either know someone like that, recently experienced yourself, or have such a talent for sarcasm that you know how to hit every point.

I've been having a bit of a long arduous day at work today, but you have singlehandedly made me laugh out loud and changed the entire outlook of this weekend. Thanks.


/

We are staging a protest to fight Bush's Empire of Imperialism and Social Injustice, and I am supposed to supply the party favors. Oh, and Mom, I need another appointment with the Dr. My piercing is infected again...

too long for a rotating title, but I like it anyway...

Tragedy is, when the Shizzle hits the manizzle, we are going to be the ones protecting these types...all the while they will be screaming us down for it...

223 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:31:53pm

re: #206 Spartacus

These guys are outright nuts.

Say what?

224 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:34:41pm
225 wanumba  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:35:08pm

There's another aspect to all this:
Several commentors have stated unequivically that the Yearly Kos was purely a political event - as in rally, but that's not exactly how the event apparently was advertised. Yeh, Left ... but "rally?" That would make it fall under certain campaign laws, wouldn't it?
The soldier goes to an event billed as a "blogger's" conference, so until the man makes an opposing comment as part of his question as a member of the audience, not a soul corrected him on his wearing of the uniform - that is notably the two military "souls" on the panel looking over the audience - but suddenly, ohhh! NOOO! VIOLATION! It was a charge of convenience, made by an extremely biased person with a vested interest in the outcome. Need more than HIS say-so in this case.
Can't have it both ways, if the event was indeed a political rally rather than what they wrote down on paper, perhaps some fines are in order - to the "rally" organizers.
To hear people imperiously claiming that EVERYONE KNEW that Yearly KOS was pure politics is stating something that opens up a can of worms that perhaps KOS would rather not have opened.
One can hope! (:-D) Pass the popcorn!

226 Wendya  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:35:19pm

When Stoltz shouted, “HEY! You want me to come down there?”, I wish the soldier had replied.....Yes...and bring Wesley Clark with you!

227 Killian Bundy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:36:40pm

Iran detains scores at 'satanic' rock gig

IRANIAN police detained more than 200 people and seized alcohol and drugs in a raid on a 'satanic' underground rock concert, media in the conservative Islamic state report.

Iran, which has launched an annual summer crackdown on “immoral behaviour”, bans alcohol, narcotics and parties with unrelated men and women dancing, drinking and mixing.

Western popular music is frowned upon.

/there's big trouble in River City

228 DesertSage  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:37:00pm

The American people are being programmed like little sheep to go into that voting booth and pull the lever for Hillary.

This indoctrination started with the '04 election when the MSM didn't throw their full weight and support behind J F'n Kerry. Oh yeah, they really wanted him to beat Bush, but only because they couldn't stand Bush. But they also knew that if he won that it wouldn't be good for St. Hillary. And if Hillary would benefit from a Bush win in '04, then the MSM was her willing accomplice.

The MSM, Hollywood and the entire Leftist cabal would use the four years between the '04 and '08 elections to relentlessly pound the Bush administration, whether the demonization was warranted or not. If it's good for the country, it's bad for Hillary...and they just can't have that. If the surge is bearing fruit, it's bad for Hillary....and they just can't have that.

The little lemmings on the Left and the vast majority of moderates in the middle will be bombarded for the next 18 months with how great Hillary Clinton is. The MSM, Hollywood and the entire Leftist cabal will do everything in it's power and utilize all of it's vast resources, which are quite extensive, to convince the American public that electing Hillary Clinton is only chance the US has to remain a great nation.

The sad thing is that a majority of people may just buy into that bullshit and march like little sheep to the slaughter into the voting booth to pull that lever for her.
I for one will never succumb to Leftie's rhetoric. I hope LGFers will stay vigilante to the oncoming avalanche of hyper BDS and anti-Americanism that we'll be witnessing in the next 18 months.

Stay on guard...your country is counting on you!

229 Capt_Faust  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:38:48pm

re: #194 socialcircle

Protesting in uniform (I think only 1 is legit)

Well I can tell you for a fact those Marines on the top were yelling toward the anti-war nut-cases. ( I would know cause I was the guy in the paint holding back the Marine who was yelling about how he was sacrificing for them so they can march...congrats Lizard ARMY you found a part of me...) These Marines (from my knowledge) showed up at near a meeting point of the GOE when the ANSWER crowd walked by. They did NOT show up with the express point to protest, but ended up getting dragged into it. Add to the fact that all of them were wearing sweatshirts, civilian gear, and other non identifiable jackets and ponchos. They had no organized uniform, and anyone who has lived in, or near, an army town has seen soldiers strolling around with a Army shirt, or a small item or two mixed in with civilian dress (like old field caps etc...). They did not go out on stage and make speeches like those anti-military guys on the bottom picture...

Only the Old AF SF SGT (name withheld by me), behind me wore part of his old uniform on that protest...those Marines were NOT protesting in uniform...and since they just came back you'll notice that that is not the standard cammo pattern for Marine field jackets.

/ There is a BIG difference between those two pics and the intent of the two groups...

230 Killian Bundy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:40:34pm

re: #224 savage_nation

Wesley Clark needs to be put of trial for CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY!

Heres the reasons why:
1: Bombed the Serbs and destroyed Sarajevo
2: Let the terrorists free to kill our men
3: Allowed Albania to be a murderous hellhole
4: and he's just a piece of work. :)

You forgot the most important reason. He almost started WWII by attacking the Russians over the Pristina airport.

/fortunately, he was ordered to back off by British Gen. Mike Jackson

231 Q-Burn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:41:13pm

re: #223 MandyManners

re: #206 Spartacus

These guys are outright nuts.
Say what?

Got yer hot nuts right here.

232 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:42:15pm
233 Pullus Iulius  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:42:52pm

re: #224 savage_nation

And even if he's standing in a prisoners' dock in Belgrade, he'll still be receiving one more trial than any of the murdered (by muslims) Serbs in Kosovo ever got.

234 Killian Bundy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:43:22pm

re: #232 savage_nation

My bad.

/WWIII or IV, depending how you number them

235 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:43:35pm

re: #229 Capt_Faust

Nice ear!

236 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:44:16pm
237 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:45:13pm

re: #231 Q-Burn

I wish I knew what is wrong with YouTube and my computer. All day long it's played very sporadically. Gack.

238 Banner  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:46:12pm

I find it rather funny that they are going on and on and on about how what that officer was doing was ILLEGAL! Well as I understand the rules, it wasn't. Furthermore I find it interesting that these people on the Daily Kos, who embrace people who break laws all the time suddenly are standing up for 'law and order'? (Or rather their own order).

It's rather hypocritical, but then, that's the kind of people who go to the Kos, isn't it? They also seem to think that because this guy wasn't (as far as they know) a 'combat soldier going on patrol, but just some guy on the base' that he 'wouldn't know anything about what is going on'. Obviously NONE of them have been in the military (no surprise there) or on a base.

And of course the claims that Bush sent him there is just hysterical.

239 socialcircle  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:47:16pm

re:

240 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:47:39pm
241 socialcircle  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:48:00pm

Stupid PIMF

242 Banner  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:48:24pm

#230,

Actually no, his troops rebeled against him and mutinied. Clark is I think the only officer in the American Military to lose his power to a successful mutiny by his officers and staff. He was ordered to back off AFTER the mutiny was successful. And then immediatly shipped off and replaced.

The man is a disgrace.

243 Wendya  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:48:40pm

re: #95 DesertSage

Yeah but why "Progressive"? Do they want to sound like they're hip and open minded?
.


Progressive has been a code word for Socialism for quite some time. When the socialists realized they were being tarnished by anti-communist sentiments, they changed their name to make them more palatable to young, ignorant leftists. Now, of course, with the dumbing down of America, socialism is no longer a "dirty word" and is actually seen by many as some ideal new system. That's what happens when you don't teach history.

244 dmjboose  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:49:41pm

I have to admit. I thought his complaint was sensible at first. I'm glad I looked through the comments to see the insane level of hipocracy commited by this idiot. Regardless of how the moderator acted or has acted in the past, I'm not really sure how i feel about that rule. On the one hand, the government is supposed to be civilian-run. On the other hand, servicemen and -women have a lot of useful things to say about how things are going, and their use of the uniform shows their credentials. I guess I'll read more before i decide what i think about this.

245 Q-Burn  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:50:32pm

re: #237 MandyManners

re: #231 Q-Burn

I wish I knew what is wrong with YouTube and my computer. All day long it's played very sporadically. Gack.

You didn't miss much, just Doug Clark and his Hot Nuts at a bar gig. If you went to college in the south, you probably saw them at a frat party.

246 Beagle  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:52:06pm

I can't believe they fall for bad fiction as reporting... every... single... time. It's not my fault Ezra Klein and his fellow travelers can't see through transparent BS.

247 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:53:42pm

re: #242 Banner

#230,

Actually no, his troops rebeled against him and mutinied. Clark is I think the only officer in the American Military to lose his power to a successful mutiny by his officers and staff. He was ordered to back off AFTER the mutiny was successful. And then immediatly shipped off and replaced.

The man is a disgrace.

Really? Wow. Got a link?

248 savage_nation[deleted]  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:54:00pm
249 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:54:42pm

re: #245 Q-Burn

I got my sheepskin in Seattle. The only hot thing there was Starbucks' coffee.

250 wanumba  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:54:44pm

How did anyone "harrass" Beauchamp? He get run out of his pup-tent by right-wingnuts? A blogger or posters poured his shampoo out?

Lots of fliinging around of accusations that mean something legally.

Wow!
misremembering! A Bushism used by a Leftie commentator to defend a fellow Leftie!?!

251 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:55:11pm

re: #248 savage_nation

Drive carefully!

252 Capt_Faust  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:56:24pm

re: #235 MandyManners

LOL, thanks. The ladies think I'm pretty hot with my patriotic craziness...that is if they're not moonbats.

And yes I'll admit, my ear is kick ass...but getting that paint out LOL!

I had a huge discussion with many many people about that picture... MM had a article about it, and many others wrote extensively about it. The one thing is that the moonbats were in force, flying flags about Che, Bush=Hitler signs, and spewed all kinds of vehemence and hate. That entire march they never published pics of the them burning the flag near the Pentagon, or the black block f*&ks intimidating police. But they put one Marine who had a 10 sec (I kid you not, he only got angry and yelled for 10 sec.) lasp in control and Wham-mo...look at how warmongering they are.

The Marine in question was taunted into his rage, with some piss assed pansy boy exclaiming about how the military was S*&t, and how were sending our boys out to die in unarmored Hummer's, to which that Marine screamed with rage about how he rides in those Humvees and that they are armored, that is not the problem...He then started yelling about how they sacrifice so he can walk around and wine...

And that moonbat turned tail and hightailed it back into the crowd...safe in its cowardly obscurity...

The Marine is phographed by 15 AP guys and is sent round the world as the new poster for military rage...

Total BS!

/What a world...but if thats what it takes to get a compliment from Mandy

:D

253 Capt_Faust  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:57:19pm

re: #239 socialcircle

re: target='_blank'" target="_blank">#229 Capt_Faust

That's you? Cool. So is the guy holding the banner in the bottom pic in full uniform?

I don't know...is that YOU?

254 wanumba  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:57:36pm

Wasn't Wesley Clark the one who was about a minute from sending US troops to confront Russian troops - only stopped by a British general who snapped something to the effect: "You're not starting WWIII on MY watch!"

255 pat  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 1:59:56pm

From a Benglashi web site, and quoted at the Gates of Vienna by Fjordman:

“Multiculturalism is an unnatural and unhealthy condition that can only afflict countries in national decline. (...) Greed and corruption will characterise the government coupled with oppressive measures directed against its citizens. Lies and deceit will be the stock and trade of media, politicians, and educational institutions.” Multiculturalism “is used to prevent a national consensus among the electorate. It erodes values, cultures, beliefs, religions, ethnic habits, etc. ensuring a swirling river of discontent upon which the multiculturalists rides. It is a perfect method of ensuring that there can never be accord, unity, or a commonly shared destiny among those ruled.”

Interesting, huh?

256 WrathofG-d  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:01:16pm
"....ruining the bad name of our country...."


-unidentified uniform wearing soldier.

OOPS! :D

257 Beagle  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:01:16pm

Wesley Clark ordered General Michael Jackson of the UK to attack the Russians at the Pristina Airport. Jackson refused to "start WWIII" for General Clark. And thus ended our misadventure in the Balkans. I wish. Now we're pushing for an independent Jihadistan in the Balkans, Kosovo. Oh well, Europe needs its illegal arms, heroin, and jihadis from somewhere.

258 Malatrope  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:01:25pm

This has undoubtedly been pointed out before, but it is striking to me how much Koz and his minions resemble the brownshirts growing in Germany during the 1930's. Their methods, ideology, appearance, and thuggish attitude is nearly identical. The way they are growing their political power is frighteningly similar. And need I point out that Hitler was successful in taking his country down the path to destruction.

America has too much economic and military might to allow it to be transmogrified into the United Socialist States of America. Let's keep our eye on the Islamist ball, but be aware that this other movement is growing and is a natural ally of the jihadis.

We so often think of "the Left" as "Commies", but in reality they much more closely resemble the National Socialists.

259 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:02:38pm

re: #252 Capt_Faust

My favorite protest sign. (I got it here. I normally hate that word but, I find the whole thing hilarious.)

260 goodbye_natalie  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:04:25pm

You know who really is starting to piss me off? Our leadership, both political and military, who refuse to address the charges from these douche bags saying we are killing innocent Iraqis, the war is lost, and the like. If our leadership would show the same amount of courage that they ask of our grunts on the ground, we wouldn't be having this discussion and the KKKos gang and the MSM would have their mouths permanently shut with the truth.

I'm sure they'll hang this guy's ass on a stupid technicality of how he was dressed. It's a wonder anybody would sign up to fight the good fight with the ignorant, gutless people who lead them. Says a lot for all the good "little" people in the country, doesn't it?

261 socialcircle  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:04:48pm

re: #253 Capt_Faust

Uh, no. Why would you ask?

262 Wendya  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:04:58pm

re: #254 wanumba

Wasn't Wesley Clark the one who was about a minute from sending US troops to confront Russian troops - only stopped by a British general who snapped something to the effect: "You're not starting WWIII on MY watch!"

Yep, the very same one.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

263 MacGregor  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:05:13pm

re: #258 Malatrope

True. Socialist countries are also pissed off we took their saddam away.

264 pat  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:05:34pm

259 MandyManners

LOL. And look at the would be gorgeous girl behind him, but for her snarl.

265 Malatrope  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:05:36pm

re: #260 goodbye_natalie

..and that was exactly the attitude of the general population in Germany. People knew it was wrong, but they didn't bother or were afraid to speak up.

266 kreigwagon  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:06:00pm

What idiots from Kos or any other progressive group doesn't get is: War is Necessary At Times

Without the Revolutionary war (and the Americans winning it obviously) for example, they probably would not have the right to have their KOSFEST. War is something that NO, let me repeat, NO SANE INDIVIDUAL OR PEOPLE WANT as the only recourse to conflict. But war is obviously necessary with regards to Afghanistan, Iraq or wherever the challenge to our liberty, way of life is manifested.

Hey Koslings, we didn't start this war and tough shit if you're tired of war. Stop thinking about yourselves for once. The Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines are tired of war too. But they have a mission to accomplish, a promise to us as a free nation and to their families; to themselves to get the job done.

That is the main difference I see between everyone else and the progressives: they whine and offer no solutions, we on the other hand, get the job done.

267 NY Nana  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:06:22pm

re: #228 DesertSage

Wow, Sage! Just 'wow'.

Great post.

268 WrathofG-d  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:06:29pm

re: #260 goodbye_natalie

Is discussing the surge a "political issue", sounds more like a strategic or news issue.

269 missouri boy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:06:37pm

re: #255 pat

From a Benglashi web site, and quoted at the Gates of Vienna by Fjordman:


“Multiculturalism is an unnatural and unhealthy condition that can only afflict countries in national decline. (...) Greed and corruption will characterise the government coupled with oppressive measures directed against its citizens. Lies and deceit will be the stock and trade of media, politicians, and educational institutions.” Multiculturalism “is used to prevent a national consensus among the electorate. It erodes values, cultures, beliefs, religions, ethnic habits, etc. ensuring a swirling river of discontent upon which the multiculturalists rides. It is a perfect method of ensuring that there can never be accord, unity, or a commonly shared destiny among those ruled.”

Interesting, huh?

Sums up multiculturalism perfectly.......exactly what is happening, here.

270 Beagle  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:06:41pm

This has to be the least-known brush with possible nuclear armageddon.

After the Russians took control of one end of the airport, Pentagon sources say Clark ordered Jackson to move British tanks onto the runway to prevent Russia from flying in reinforcements.

FDR knew better than to get involved in the Balkans. Not surprisingly the Boomer Generation (not the Greatest) goes in full bore on the wrong side.

271 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:06:42pm

re: #264 pat

259 MandyManners

LOL. And look at the would be gorgeous girl behind him, but for her snarl.

Didn't her mommy ever tell her that her face might freeze that way?

272 Capt_Faust  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:06:42pm

re: #259 MandyManners

Ahh...looks to me like you found one of the possible protest warriors...

People who slip into moonbat protest with large signs in order to make the moonbats look ridiculous...

Protest Warrior Picture

I've met a bunch of them in my time, and seen them in action. Talk about funny stories...

273 Malatrope  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:07:02pm

re: #266 kreigwagon

Note the comment above about Wesley Clark and the Russians. They really aren't opposed to war, they are just opposed to our war.

274 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:08:42pm

re: #270 Beagle

That dimfuck almost got us into war unnecessarily yet is trying to get us to stop fighting a righteous war?

275 newsjunkie_ky  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:10:16pm

OT and maybe already discussed (haven't been on for a few days, grandchild visiting).
Re: the bridge collapse:
MINNESOTA DEMOCRATS POLITICIZE 35-W BRIDGE COLLAPSE - PAWLENTY HATER NICK COLEMAN HITS NEW LOW
[Link: www.minnesotademocratsexposed.com...]
And the kkkos kids blame Bush, but don't blame Johnson for the Silver Bridge collapse in the 60s.
The Silver Bridge Collapse Challenge
by Rp
Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 02:49:40 PM PDT
This is probably not going to be the most popular diary of the day, and perhaps someone has already made this observation, but if we're going to blame Bush and Company for their tax-cutting, shrink-government-down-so-it fits-in-a-bathtub policies then what are we to make of the Silver Bridge Collapse?

Read the comments:
[Link: 64.233.167.104...]
Hate to visit that creepy site, but listening to Rush's show from yesterday and he is talking about the leftys going apesh*t over blaming Bush.
Saying we should not be spending money in Iraq but instead put it in infrastructure, HOWEVER, if we don't take care of those that want to blow us up, we won't have to worry about our infrastructure.

276 Capt_Faust  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:10:49pm

re: #261 socialcircle

Sorry I misunderstood your question...those two pics you sent are from different sides at a protest in DC. Top has support the troops GOE supporters...the bottom has anti-war moonbat troops (which one of them was caught lying to the press about his former status...)

That Marine at the bottom in his dress uniform was anti-war and spoke in front of the crowd at the podium. I have no idea what his name is, or where he served, but I can tell you he pissed off many former (and active duty) Marines that day...

Sorry, for a sec, I thought you were giving me a troll question...

277 MandyManners  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:10:51pm

re: #272 Capt_Faust

I love it!

I don't recall anything like that during my Commie days when we were demanding that the UW disinvest from South Africa. I do recall a bunch of people who were way older than your typical grad student--outside agitators, probably.

278 legalpad  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:11:05pm
SO let’s be clear here:

Oh, I don't think you're very clear Ezra. This is not simply left/right politics. Beauchamp was accusing soldiers of horrible things, with the extended idea of discrediting the entire military. And what did the shouted down soldier accuse people of? I think he was simply saying good things about the military. So one person says good things about you, the other says you are a murdering scum, are these people the same? Should you treat them the same? Would you?

Then you compared the Kos panel with "the right", extolling the virtues of abstinence from criticism and antagonistic action by the Kos panel. How many on that panel? And how many on "the right"? So you are comparing the frequency of negative behavior of a small panel to the frequency of said behavior in a group of 50 million people. My, that's scientific. The "left" has maybe 25 million. How do you think their criminal and violent behavior stacks up against "the right"? Or even the entire U.S. military? Doesn't look good does it? I think you should take your righteous posturing and hide it somewhere before someone notices.

279 kreigwagon  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:13:06pm

re: #273 Malatrope

re: #266 kreigwagon

Note the comment above about Wesley Clark and the Russians. They really aren't opposed to war, they are just opposed to our war.

Yep, Clinton Knew how to Wag The Dog

280 NY Nana  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:13:36pm

re: #128 republic

Try looking through these..he does get around.

281 socialcircle  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:14:30pm

re: #276 Capt_Faust

No offense taken. I was trying to find anti-war protesters in uniform - just linking w/out commentary. I didn't realize the top pic was protesting the protesters. I found several where people were just wearing a camo jacket & didn't know what constitutes a uniform per the discussion at hand.

282 Killian Bundy  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:15:48pm

And remember, shortly before he decided to run for President as a Bonkey, Clark was on the lecture circuit, giving speeches singing the praises of GWB.

/what does that tell you?

283 socialcircle  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:17:28pm

re: #281 socialcircle

That's what I meant by legit; only 1 was in full uniform.

284 Jeewhiz  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:17:38pm

Even if he violated the military code (which has not been fully established yet), a civilian panel cannot enforce it. All of that barking on Kos about it being 'illegal' would only apply if he violated a civilian law.

Matter of fact, after reading all of this it occurs to me...Could RETIRED Capt Nasty be charged with impersonating an active duty officer?

LOL

Because he certainly isn't one NOW.

285 NY Nana  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:18:35pm

re: #271 MandyManners

Didn't her mommy ever tell her that her face might freeze that way?

You got that one, too? I was so dumb that I believed it when I was a kid. My 4 are far wiser..first time I said it? The guilty party made a face that was soooo funny...how I wish I had a camera handy, but since I tend to behead anyone I take a photo of? There probably would have been no evidence.

286 imploder  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:20:24pm

The sergeant was out of line for wearing his uniform, because he was not sanctioned by the Army to represent its views.

We are taught not to wear the uniform in political settings, the Army and all the other services have strict rules about that issue.

On the other hand, the young man was extremely well-spoken. I suggest that if the @zz-hat ex-captain gets him harpooned, he has a future in politics.

FWIW, I sent vetvotes an e-mail and asked Stolz how he can hang around a bunch of looser nutjobs that post on kos.

Funny how these things get wings. That fact is good for us, we get to see the kos-crap exposed, but bad for sergeant cojones.

287 blackpajamas  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:21:06pm

Isn't it amazing, how in about fifty short years, we witness the total moral collapse of the Democrat party?

Hillary Clinton is first in line to kneel and bob before the DailyKoward nut-root base, while the Democrats sick their Koranbulance chasing Sharia Trial Lawyers after anyone who disagrees with their grey market bargains with CAIR and other terrorist related organizations, and there is not a single Democrat in either Congress taking direct action to remove these terrorists and their front groups from our soil.

Unless Democrats get their act together, they will converge towards the limit beyond which their will be no distinction between them and terrorists, and their removal from our governmental process will be done by point of bayonet.

You know why Democrats are in favor of stem cell research?

To someday regrow their spines.

For all those knee-jerk, soft-skulled, panty-waisted, cookie-pushers of the Democrat party today, here's a reminder of the what real Democrats, the ones who preserved your freedom, sound like:

"The Terrorists, their state sponsors, and front groups (e.g., CAIR) Japanese now know that their dreams of conquest are shattered.

They no longer boast of dictating peace terms in Washington. This does not mean however, that the Terrorists, their state sponsors, and front groups (e.g., CAIR)Japanese have given up hope. They are depending on America tiring of this war. Becoming weary of the sacrifices it demands.

They hope that our desire to see our soldiers and sailors home again and the temptation to return to the comforts and profits of peace will force us to settle for some compromise short of unconditional surrender.

They should know better.

They should realize that this nation, now at the peak of its military strength, will not relax. Will not weaken in its purpose. We have the men, the material, the skill, the leadership, and the fortitude to achieve total victory. We have allies that will help us achieve it.

We are resolute in our determination. We will see the fight through to a complete and victorious finish. To that end, with the help of whatever motivates your ass in the morningGod, we shall use every ounce of our energy and strength."

--Harry Truman [ed: 98%]

288 Wendya  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:21:09pm

re: #280 NY Nana

When Iraq war veteran Jon Soltz accused Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) of "aiding the enemy," the Democratic senators gathered around him yesterday did not wince. Nor did Democrats object when Soltz, the chairman of a group called VoteVets.org, called President Bush and Vice President Cheney "draft dodgers."

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

This is acceptable behavior for someone claiming to represent military members...yet standing up and telling the truth about the surge isn't?

289 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:21:25pm

Koskidz want to fight back...
Coordinated smear of YearlyKos: Fight back!

The coordinated rightie blogosmear HAS to smear YearlyKos. Belittling, wild accusations, the Usual Strawmen. Memeorandum traces the family tree of the "Soldier Censored at Kos Convention" sliming ...

YOU and what you believe in with the typical sleazy accusations. Is this coordinated through the White House?*
...
They find the "issue" to misconstrue and then attack, staying on-message, never defending, always attacking, and, eventually, the complicit sheep of the Mainstream will pick it up and DIGNIFY the smears along with some tepid denial from an invertibrate Democrat.
....
Note that it's ALL smear and no defense. These cowards are paper tigers. They don't allow you to refute them in their comments section, they won't allow equal time, and can't handle honest debate.

And they're scared as hell of you.

Show 'em that you are worthy of their fear.

Or curl up in a fetal ball and whimper, and/or attack the messenger. But NOW is the time to roll them up. They're exposed and we're not in the middle of a campaign. Perfect chance to methodically dismantle them.

Is that even written in English?

290 SnakeSpit  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:21:49pm

re: #285 NY Nana
Do you mean a frozen face like this?
[Link: us.st11.yimg.com...]

291 goodbye_natalie  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:22:04pm

I think we define these scumbags at KKKos incorrectly. I've never thought of them as socialists.

This is a new breed of scumbag because I can guarantee you they aren't advocating giving up anything personally. They want us to give up everything. They're a lot closer to fascists than most people realize.

I would call them a collective theocracy with a big dose of fascism who will divinely guide the rest of us into oblivion.

292 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:25:40pm

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Haven't watched it, but Mitt Romney answers a bunch of question about Mormons.

293 goodbye_natalie  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:26:10pm

re: #289 Killgore Trout

And they're scared as hell of you.

Show 'em that you are worthy of their fear.

Or curl up in a fetal ball and whimper, and/or attack the messenger. But NOW is the time to roll them up. They're exposed and we're not in the middle of a campaign. Perfect chance to methodically dismantle them.

Big talk from little men...they remind me of the terrorists without the balls to carry thru.

294 Capt_Faust  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:26:25pm

re: #277 MandyManners

I'm sure they were...many of these "homegrown" protests use shipped in facilitators from ANSWER or other groups...paid professionals.

Since you like the pics...here are some more.

War Solves nothing...

People of Iraq are too stupid...

Saddam Kills his own people...

War never solved anything

Liberating Co$t$ too much

Ann Coulter

Protect Civilization

Their HQ site...
Main Site


These should show you some funny sights...

/ Funny people with chutzpah to wander around in the fifth columns camp...

295 Capt_Faust  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:28:15pm

re: #281 socialcircle

No prob...yeah those Marines practically stumbled upon a couple thousand people mad at them...made it into an interesting day though.

296 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:28:50pm

re: #293 goodbye_natalie

What are they going to do? Complain more?

297 Capt_Faust  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:29:06pm

re: #283 socialcircle

Yeah...he was in total uniform including regulation shoes.

298 Pygmalienation  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:33:26pm

Charle said: On the matter of “gleefulness,” I feel no glee about this. On the contrary, I think what happened at that panel discussion was a disgrace, and if you read what I’ve written you won’t find a whole lot of “glee” in it.

That really sums it up-- When talking to liberals, they so desperately want to be right (as in correct) and I so desperately wish I was wrong.

299 Jeewhiz  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:33:52pm

QUESTION FOR THOSE WITH MILITARY KNOWLEDGE:


IF the Captain has the authority to shut down the Sargent, doesn't that mean that he's also subject to the same rules?

He's making political statements, on a political panel, running a political organization...

Couldnt' he already be brought up on charges for everything that he's already done?

How can one be OUT of the miitary, not be subject to the uniform code but still have the ability to shut down a subordinate?

Seems impossible.

300 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:35:53pm

re: #298 Pygmalienation

Charle said: On the matter of “gleefulness,” I feel no glee about this. On the contrary, I think what happened at that panel discussion was a disgrace, and if you read what I’ve written you won’t find a whole lot of “glee” in it.

That really sums it up-- When talking to liberals, they so desperately want to be right (as in correct) and I so desperately wish I was wrong.

Wow...that completely defines conservatism.
Good one.

301 imploder  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:37:17pm

re: #299 Jeewhiz

QUESTION FOR THOSE WITH MILITARY KNOWLEDGE:


IF the Captain has the authority to shut down the Sargent, doesn't that mean that he's also subject to the same rules?

He's making political statements, on a political panel, running a political organization...

Couldnt' he already be brought up on charges for everything that he's already done?

How can one be OUT of the miitary, not be subject to the uniform code but still have the ability to shut down a subordinate?

Seems impossible.

I believe the captain is an "ex-captain". No longer affiliated.

The ex-captain has no authority over any soldier. He has status as having served, but he has no authority.

302 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:38:48pm

re: #301 imploder

I think the soldier is a reservist. Does that change the use of the uniform?

303 Malatrope  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:39:12pm

re: #291 goodbye_natalie

See my #258. You are exactly correct, in my opinion.

304 Wendya  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:39:47pm

re: #299 Jeewhiz


How can one be OUT of the miitary, not be subject to the uniform code but still have the ability to shut down a subordinate?

The soldier wasn't his subordinate. He was attempting to bully and intimidate the young man.

Soltz is the kind of guy who joins the military hoping to make a name for himself and obtain some kind of fame and glory. When that didn't happen and he remained undistinguished from the masses, he embraced the left as a way of grabbing the spotlight. He's a narcissistic pig who found some willing dupes to hang on his every word.

305 imploder  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:42:07pm

re: #299 Jeewhiz

He can protest that the sergeant showed up in uniform, he can complain to the sergeant's chain of command, he can appeal for discipline for the soldier, but he has no legal basis or authority of his own.

The sergeant will definitely have to deal with his chain of command over this, as they will certainly find out. They may be more sympathetic than not, however, and counsel the sergeant to attempt this no more, or slap him with a minor sanction. I doubt non-judicial punishment or the proffering of charges at all, in this case.

Also, the sergeant is a reservist, if there is really bad press over this for his unit, etc... they would probably just ask him to agree to leave. Who knows? It is all up to his chain of command, primarily his commander (who will get pressure from his chain of command one way or the other).

306 Beagle  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:45:02pm

#274 MandyManners

I wouldn't go with "righteous war" to describe Iraq, but the Democrats favored attacking a former ally, holding a legitimate claim to breakaway republics, without UN approval, using NATO as an aggressor for the first time, risking war with the Russians, ensuring Russian/Orthodox hatred for centuries, all for the least reliable or appreciative people on the face of the earth. That is, when they're not outright trying to kill us.

And not surprisingly, we've already seen Sudden Jihad Syndrims from our Kosovar/Albanian "allies" we allowed to immigrate.

"Kuffar is Kuffar, Kuffar."

307 kreigwagon  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:45:25pm

re: #291 goodbye_natalie

I think we define these scumbags at KKKos incorrectly. I've never thought of them as socialists.

This is a new breed of scumbag because I can guarantee you they aren't advocating giving up anything personally. They want us to give up everything. They're a lot closer to fascists than most people realize.

I would call them a collective theocracy with a big dose of fascism who will divinely guide the rest of us into oblivion.

So...they can be compared to radical islamists.

308 Jeewhiz  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:46:14pm

re: #301 imploder

re: #299 Jeewhiz


QUESTION FOR THOSE WITH MILITARY KNOWLEDGE:


IF the Captain has the authority to shut down the Sargent, doesn't that mean that he's also subject to the same rules?

He's making political statements, on a political panel, running a political organization...

Couldnt' he already be brought up on charges for everything that he's already done?

How can one be OUT of the miitary, not be subject to the uniform code but still have the ability to shut down a subordinate?

Seems impossible.


I believe the captain is an "ex-captain". No longer affiliated.

The ex-captain has no authority over any soldier. He has status as having served, but he has no authority.


Then his only response beyond ignoring the man's uniform would perhaps be to politely inform the guy of the code and then move on.

Treating him like he was a subordinate was an inappropriate move based upon his CIVILIAN status.

But one wouldn't know that from watching that video. He acted like he still had the power to tell the guy to shut up.

309 imploder  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:46:30pm

re: #302 Killgore Trout

re: #301 imploder

I think the soldier is a reservist. Does that change the use of the uniform?

Nope, I think reservists are more likely caught "on-tape" by local news media, etc. before a big deployment or exercise, and they may comment more casually to the press due to less training and emphasis on how to behave around the news media, yet what this young sergeant did was more provacative, and now garnering a lot of media attention.

Ideally, military members are the grey man, they should not comment in uniform about public policy, decisions of the government or their commanders, politics, regulations and instructions, etc. In a war zone the chain of command may allow them to be interviewed by reporters at which point they are allowed to speak their minds freely, but rarely do.

310 imploder  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:48:16pm

re: #308 Jeewhiz

re: #301 imploder


re: #299 Jeewhiz

QUESTION FOR THOSE WITH MILITARY KNOWLEDGE:
IF the Captain has the authority to shut down the Sargent, doesn't that mean that he's also subject to the same rules?

He's making political statements, on a political panel, running a political organization...

Couldnt' he already be brought up on charges for everything that he's already done?

How can one be OUT of the miitary, not be subject to the uniform code but still have the ability to shut down a subordinate?

Seems impossible.


I believe the captain is an "ex-captain". No longer affiliated.
The ex-captain has no authority over any soldier. He has status as having served, but he has no authority.

Then his only response beyond ignoring the man's uniform would perhaps be to politely inform the guy of the code and then move on.

Treating him like he was a subordinate was an inappropriate move based upon his CIVILIAN status.

But one wouldn't know that from watching that video. He acted like he still had the power to tell the guy to shut up.

Correct, he had no more authority to tell him to shut up than you or I would. The guy was just bully.

311 blackpajamas  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:51:10pm

Addendum:

[T]errorists abroad are communicating their plans and we are not intercepting those communications though we have the technical ability to do so because of Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats in control of Congress.

17 Senate Democrats understood that this situation cannot continue. Is Nancy Pelosi so blinded by partisan rage that she will leave the nation blinded rather than pass a bill the Administration demands? The House switchboard is 202-225-3121.

None of the Democratic candidates for president have called on their party to move decisively to fix this gap in the law, and the irresponsible lassitude by the Speaker and her extreme colleagues and staff underscore the consequences of turning leadership of the government over to the silly party.

312 distwalker  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:51:45pm

It really bugs me that the left is going around saying that TNR has verified the accuracy of their story. Here is what happened. TNR published a story and doubts were raised about its accuracy. They said they verified it. People didn't believe them. They went away for a week and came back and again said they verified it. That about sums it up.

Now the moonbats are acting like it is case closed. They say the events in the article are true because TNR said they are true. What a load of crap. Factor in that the Army has discredited the entire thing and the moonbat bullshit gage is pegged.

They will keep saying the stories have been proved, however.

Damned liars.

313 Attaboid  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:55:00pm

Test time.

314 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:56:36pm

re: #293 goodbye_natalie

re: #289 Killgore Trout


And they're scared as hell of you.

Show 'em that you are worthy of their fear.

Or curl up in a fetal ball and whimper, and/or attack the messenger. But NOW is the time to roll them up. They're exposed and we're not in the middle of a campaign. Perfect chance to methodically dismantle them.


Big talk from little men...they remind me of the terrorists without the balls to carry thru.


But NOW is the time to roll them up.

This twit is obviously talking about rolling up his reefer.

These pencil wristed geek leftists, who talk tough, would be put down with one good slap.

315 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 2:58:22pm

re: #312 distwalker

It really bugs me that the left is going around saying that TNR has verified the accuracy of their story. Here is what happened. TNR published a story and doubts were raised about its accuracy. They said they verified it. People didn't believe them. They went away for a week and came back and again said they verified it. That about sums it up.

Now the moonbats are acting like it is case closed. They say the events in the article are true because TNR said they are true. What a load of crap. Factor in that the Army has discredited the entire thing and the moonbat bullshit gage is pegged.

They will keep saying the stories have been proved, however.

Damned liars.

That is the one certain thing that you can count on the left for, their utter, continued open dishonesty.

They are liars as the day is long.

316 ninjadan  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:00:34pm

For the record, the communists use to call themselves "Progressive" for years. Ironically, they're even known for replacing the 'c' in a title with a 'k' a la, DailyKos.

The political power-that-be and the media have done such a great job of vilifying McCarthy and the threat of communism that they've inoculated an entire generation against a repeat showing. And the "progressives" are enjoying their newfound freedoms.

317 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:02:38pm

re: #309 imploder

Ideally, military members are the grey man, they should not comment in uniform about public policy, decisions of the government or their commanders, politics, regulations and instructions, etc. In a war zone the chain of command may allow them to be interviewed by reporters at which point they are allowed to speak their minds freely, but rarely do.

The left has used various usefull idiots in uniform to push all kinds of political bullshit since the 1960's, why do they get a pass, but if one soldier attempts to ask a question, a legitimate question, about the truth of the surge, all hell breaks loose?

The double standard is sickening.

318 republic  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:05:41pm

re: #316 ninjadan

For the record, the communists use to call themselves "Progressive" for years. Ironically, they're even known for replacing the 'c' in a title with a 'k' a la, DailyKos.

The political power-that-be and the media have done such a great job of vilifying McCarthy and the threat of communism that they've inoculated an entire generation against a repeat showing. And the "progressives" are enjoying their newfound freedoms.


We'll see how the majority of decent hard working American voters feel about the Democrats new found freedom, in the fall of 2008.

How many of the racist, sexist male Democrat voters that you know, are fawning over either Hillary or Barack Hussein?

I know not one.

319 Joshua (not a hamster) Scholar  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:10:13pm

re: #213 Slumbering Behemoth

re: #185 Logic Probe

Funny. I was waiting all morning for it to work on Firefox and it didn't. Then I dusted off the IE and it worked right away. And wow, that Stoltz is a real piece of work. No surprise though, he is in bed with the koslims after all.

Same here. This fancy pajama's media player only seems to work in Explorer.

320 imploder  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:14:27pm

re: #317 republic

re: #309 imploder


Ideally, military members are the grey man, they should not comment in uniform about public policy, decisions of the government or their commanders, politics, regulations and instructions, etc. In a war zone the chain of command may allow them to be interviewed by reporters at which point they are allowed to speak their minds freely, but rarely do.

The left has used various usefull idiots in uniform to push all kinds of political bullshit since the 1960's, why do they get a pass, but if one soldier attempts to ask a question, a legitimate question, about the truth of the surge, all hell breaks loose?

The double standard is sickening.

I know where you are coming from. Still, those other guys were wrong (like Forrest Gump at the peace rally on the Mall!).

The reason it is important to me...our military stands unblemished by politics. I'm a very policital person, but I take care of those activites out of uniform (I'm retired now) and on my own time, which is my right.

Our men and women in uniform endured Clinton's presidency, which was very hard on many military members. Actually, it sucked and it was a very dark time in my career. Still, only a few people got smoked for speaking out against the adminstration's policies, the majority being high ranking officers that hated Clinton and the way he gutted the military. Nonetheless, most servicemembers checked their feelings at the door and did their duty, which is essential to be perceived by the public as a professional military and not poisoned by partisan politics.

So we stand as a professional fighting force, with political leanings one way or the other, but the overarching idea are those that are in our oaths of enlistment or office, that we will obey the orders, etc...

321 Render  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:20:32pm

From the what have we here department...

===

Some of the links describing Capt Jon Soltz (reserves), including his own DemPac front group VoteVets bio, state that Capt. Soltz served "in OIF" in 2003 deploying logistic supply columns.

At least one of those links stated that Soltz was doing this deploying from Kuwait, not Iraq, which makes logistical sense, in 2003.

Other links, notably the MSM and others from DemPac groups, state that Soltz actually served within Iraq.

There seems to be something of a discrepancy in service locations here. Maybe the Captain would like to explain his record a bit better?

While we're at it...

How is it that a tank platoon commander under Clarke in Kosovo, ends his career as a reserve logistics staff officer deep in the rear areas of OIF and Fort Dix, with an umbilical cord attached to Weasel Clarke?

Seems an odd career path to me. I've seen odder, so I know it's not out of the question. But I do think it is somewhat questionable.

===

Soltz and his VoteVets DemPac group is, and has, been campaigning quite openly for Democratic candidates for quite some time now, all while Soltz has been serving as an active member of the armed services reserves. Perhaps we should consult the relevant field manuals again regarding this very subject.

===

I ain't done with you Captain, wanna hold a pen?

===

Soltz's DemPac front group, VoteVets, would appear to have a very large bug up it's ass about this very subject - uniformed troops making political statements. In fact, you could even say it seems to be somewhat of a major pet peeve of theirs, but only when that political statement leans to the right. Or when it contradicts one of Soltz's own strategic and historical knowledge gems that tumble out of his mouth on a regular basis.

===

Captain, try two pens at the same time, I'd like to give you credit for some kind of talent, since you clearly have none that is reflective of your resume.

===

Lastly. Based on pictures of Soltz taken in Kuwait '03 and compared to his appearance in this latest '07 Kos video, Soltz appears to have gained quite a bit of weight around the shoulders and neck. Together with an attitude that's getting worse and worse with each appearance before a camera.

Is 'Roid abuse legal in the Army Reserves? Somebody call JAG and find out.

===

Ok Captain, shove both those pens up yer ass and get the fuck out of my office. I'm done with you.

DISMISSED,
R

322 ninjadan  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:20:43pm

Another interesting point about all of this is that it was perfectly fine for our military members to be political from the outset of this nation's creation. It was John F. Kennedy (the "progressive" hero) who enacted the law to ban military, current or retired, from speaking out about what was going on.

If our men on the ground can't talk without fear of retroactive court martial, who's going to tell us when the higher-ups are up to no good?

323 usmc1968  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:27:22pm

But one wouldn't know that from watching that video. He acted like he still had the power to tell the guy to shut up.

What the sargent should have said is "YOU SHUT THE F@#K UP" Before I come and beat the crap out of you...

324 lowandslow  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:28:04pm

re: #289 Killgore Trout

Is that even written in English?

Comment of the day.

325 wanumba  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:35:40pm

Having been in USG contracting for a little bit, I can attest to the fact that contracting regs are often interpreted wrongly, that is too narrowly by contracting officers to the detriment of the contractee - usually denying of payments that were in fact allowable. (Some readers are nodding - oh yeah! Travel and home leave allowances, reassignment payments, such things. It's worse in the U.N. - admin staff will say NO to everything. Safer that way for the bureaucrat).
That is why I am unconvinced by the basis for the comments that the soldier violated regs.

para 1-10, AR 670-1:
j. Wearing Army uniforms is prohibited in the following situations:
(1) In connection with the furtherance of any political or commercial interests, or when engaged in off-duty civilian employment.


The soldier was not part of KOS in any way and did not participate in any way to the FURTHERANCE of the Yearly Kos interests. He was not working off-duty civilian employment.

(2) When participating in public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies, or public demonstrations, except as authorized by competent authority.


Again, the political event was YearlyKos - the soldier was an attendee as a member of the audience, not staff, not panel presenter, not clean-up, no pamphet distribution, no marching, no posters, nothing. He had NO association with the organization or the promotion of the event. Attending as part of an audience to an event open to the public cannot not carry ANY automatic assumption that any single individual endorses or doesn't endorse the politics. People attend conferences to better inform themselves, either as supporters or not or undecided, pending more info.
(

3) When attending any meeting or event that is a function of, or is sponsored by, an extremist organization.


Unless Yearly Kos is listed legally as an extremist org, the soldier did not violate this item.

(4) When wearing the uniform would bring discredit upon the Army.


The soldier listened and then as part of the open questions, in order, stood up and said the Army is doing a good job and that the soldiers are honorable and are deserving of respect. How does that bring discredit to the Army? Wasn't he defending the Army against what he perceived as unjustified smears? Give him a medal - above and beyond the call of duty and all that ...
(

5) When specifically prohibited by Army regulations

.
Anyone say he couldn't go, but he did anyway?
Don't know. Requires background info that isn't available as yet. Doubt it, though.
Again, the Left is trying to say that a statement like "the surge is working" is purely political, not a statement of fact. They should not be allowed to set this as the terms of debate. It's flat-out wrong. They want to reduce EVERYTHING to politics - to "that's YOUR reality." Debates will then become meaningless - nothing is right or wrong.
The soldier challenged the statements. He was yelled at, intimidated, they tried to humiliate him, wrongly escorted him out as if he'd actually done something wrong when he hadn't, and to Clark's eternal disgrace, he aided and abetted the grand debate dodge - not by addressing the soldier's comments - but by maligning him before the entire audience.

326 imploder  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:36:08pm

re: #323 usmc1968

But one wouldn't know that from watching that video. He acted like he still had the power to tell the guy to shut up.

What the sargent should have said is "YOU SHUT THE F@#K UP" Before I come and beat the crap out of you...

Yes, but in this case the sergeant persisted which made the ex-captain's lack of authority apparent. He didn't even have to threaten violence, only persist.

327 imploder  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:39:18pm

re: #325 wanumba

The soldier was not part of KOS in any way and did not participate in any way to the FURTHERANCE of the Yearly Kos interests. He was not working off-duty civilian employment.

No, but he was participating in the furtherance of the opposite view, which is furtherance of a political stance.

It is not acceptable conduct in uniform. For me, this is very clear.

328 imploder  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:41:05pm

re: #327 imploder

When I first saw the video of an E-5 soldier in Class As addressing the forum, my immediate gut reaction was: that is wrong.

329 Sharmuta  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:42:12pm
It’s a standard “progressive” tactic when trying to divert attention from a potentially serious problem: ascribe the worst kinds of motives and emotions to those who pointed it out.

So I've noticed. And it's not just to divert from potentially serious problems, but anytime they're uncomfortable with something you've pointed out. Stating an observation is "shouting down" or "picking a fight". M'kay then.

330 ninjadan  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:45:47pm

re: #327 imploder

re: #325 wanumba

The soldier was not part of KOS in any way and did not participate in any way to the FURTHERANCE of the Yearly Kos interests. He was not working off-duty civilian employment.

No, but he was participating in the furtherance of the opposite view, which is furtherance of a political stance.

It is not acceptable conduct in uniform. For me, this is very clear.

I didn't realize truth was a political stance.

331 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:46:26pm

re: #1 MandyManners

Dang. I'm out of popcorn.

Me Too -

But NOT OUT OF KOSHER HOT DOGS - This One WILL be Good. Thank you Simi!, and Melech is siting here sniffing the "dogs." Melech is smarter than the Kosoldiers as to when/how to reply, but then again Melech is only a DOG.

-S-

332 wanumba  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:47:17pm

#327 Imploder
Thank you!
That's the crux of it, isn't it?
What's the opposite view?
Republican? Independent? Democrat? Libertarian? Prohibition?
A soldier states that the soldiers are doing a good job and that is suddenly a political position?
Since when? Which one? Is it truly limited to a particular party?

Isn't the general public somewhat united across parties that the war must be won? People of a variety of parties?
The soldier did NOT promote any particular political party by his comment.

333 Catttt  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:51:10pm

When I went to the store, the Daily Kos diary linked above was in one of my tabs, with 20 comments. When I got back, I reloaded to see how many more there were - 55. But when I clicked on comments, the diary had been purged. Typical.

334 imploder  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 3:54:09pm

re: #330 ninjadan

re: #327 imploder


re: #325 wanumba

The soldier was not part of KOS in any way and did not participate in any way to the FURTHERANCE of the Yearly Kos interests. He was not working off-duty civilian employment.

No, but he was participating in the furtherance of the opposite view, which is furtherance of a political stance.

It is not acceptable conduct in uniform. For me, this is very clear.


I didn't realize truth was a political stance.

Trust me, it is not the mission of soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coastguardsmen to defend their mission to anybody. This is dicey territory, and full of pitfalls.

Apart from the fact that the sergeant cannot speak for the Army, as he is not empowered with that duty, do you think his actions affected anyone else?

What about the people in his unit? His chain of command? Do you think they are now focusing on the mission of the unit or on handling a huge public relations problem?

No servicemember has the power to proclaim the "truth" from fiction, they are to obey orders, and currently, his orders (in the form of regulations) do not allow him to speak out in uniform, as he will be perceived as a mouthpiece of the Army, which he is not. He does not have the authority, or frankly, the training, to speak for the whole of the US Army, and no matter how some may perceive it, the great majority of citizens will give his uniform creedence.

That is the problem, and that is why we are trained not to comment to the news media.

335 phoenixgirl  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 4:13:36pm

re: #332 wanumba

#327 Imploder
Thank you!
That's the crux of it, isn't it?
What's the opposite view?
Republican? Independent? Democrat? Libertarian? Prohibition?
A soldier states that the soldiers are doing a good job and that is suddenly a political position?
Since when? Which one? Is it truly limited to a particular party?

Isn't the general public somewhat united across parties that the war must be won? People of a variety of parties?
The soldier did NOT promote any particular political party by his comment.

when there is one party that wants us to lose the war, i guess what the soldier said was political. patriotism has become political because the party that wants us to lose is unpatriotic.

336 fmfnavydoc  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 4:16:30pm

FWIW,

As an Active Duty Senior Chief Petty Officer, in my opinion, the Sgt. made a bad move by showing up at the annual cesspool known as YearlyKos. This could be looked at by some PC SNCO's and Officers as a political event (I don't know who would see it that way, but I'm sure there area few out there).

As for the dolt Soltz...I'd like to see him pull that "stand down" crap in a Chief's Mess anywhere - he'd feel the power of the pimp hand, then the bytch hand for his little stunt....

337 alkizz  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 4:22:21pm

ok so did you notice there were almost as many people on the panel as there were in the audience?

338 hbudd  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 4:23:20pm

This wasn't a political event. There were no current candidates participating in the discussion with the sargeant. Without politicians or political activity directed toward any candidate's run for office, this convention is no more than a business/professional meeting. What Soltz and the others do at their respective websites when they are blogging is irrelevant to the nature of the convention.

339 Jacketch  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 4:25:28pm

re: #82 Ginn

StopIranWar.com
Please join the Iraq and Afghanistan War veterans at VoteVets.org and me -- sign the petition to President Bush today. Urge him to work with our allies and use every diplomatic, political, and economic option at our disposal to deal with Iran. War is not the answer.

Stop "Iran" war?

War is not the answer?
Then what is the answer?

This website completely surprised me.

They are fearmongering. Nothing more.

Are these people aware that Iran declared war on the US many years ago.

How long should we put up with these irritating piss-ants.

340 Render  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 4:29:18pm

re: #328 imploder

First appearances can be, and often are, deceiving.

I'd be a whole more inclined to agree with you, if I hadn't already seen the VoteVets website. Soltz's DemPac group is running pictures of Soltz himself in uniform on that website. Clarke has also used pictures of himself, in full uniform, in the furtherance of political goals. That very question was raised repeatedly during Clarke's campaign for president.

It has been my experience that whenever a person of authority, perceived or otherwise, reacts the way Soltz did, they are almost always hiding something.

In this case it would appear that Soltz was attempting to hide relevant and truthful information that would make Soltz's own doom and gloom positions and predictions on the Surge look like pure cowardice and defeatism.

Which they are.

===

If that Sargent receives anything more than a polite talking to from his direct CO, than the same punishment should be done for every single one of the active military and reserve types currently involved in the Democratic Party machine. Including Captain Soltz and his VoteVets cohorts.

CLAUSEWITZ?,
R

341 Slumbering Behemoth  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 4:29:23pm

re: #294 Capt_Faust

Thanks for the link, those guys are f___ing awesome! I would love to join up with them, or any proper counter-protesters, but I have this problem.

People (particularly lefty agitators who would presume to threaten me) always seem to mistake my calm demeanor and civil, moderate tone of speech as a sign of patience and an unwillingness to use force. I would likely end up tarnishing the brave work these people do.

342 imploder  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 4:32:43pm

re: #337 alkizz

ok so did you notice there were almost as many people on the panel as there were in the audience?

Great point...

343 imploder  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 4:33:37pm

re: #338 hbudd

This wasn't a political event. There were no current candidates participating in the discussion with the sargeant. Without politicians or political activity directed toward any candidate's run for office, this convention is no more than a business/professional meeting. What Soltz and the others do at their respective websites when they are blogging is irrelevant to the nature of the convention.

So you really want to stand by that statement, that the Yearlykos is not a political event?

344 imploder  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 4:42:59pm

re: #340 Render

re: #328 imploder

First appearances can be, and often are, deceiving.

I'd be a whole more inclined to agree with you, if I hadn't already seen the VoteVets website. Soltz's DemPac group is running pictures of Soltz himself in uniform on that website. Clarke has also used pictures of himself, in full uniform, in the furtherance of political goals. That very question was raised repeatedly during Clarke's campaign for president.

It has been my experience that whenever a person of authority, perceived or otherwise, reacts the way Soltz did, they are almost always hiding something.

In this case it would appear that Soltz was attempting to hide relevant and truthful information that would make Soltz's own doom and gloom positions and predictions on the Surge look like pure cowardice and defeatism.

Which they are.

===

If that Sargent receives anything more than a polite talking to from his direct CO, than the same punishment should be done for every single one of the active military and reserve types currently involved in the Democratic Party machine. Including Captain Soltz and his VoteVets cohorts.

CLAUSEWITZ?,
R

An image of someone in uniform is different than someone in uniform making statements. Would you agree?

Candidates for political office make images of themselves while in uniform available for people to consume. There is no problem with the Stolz asshat showing himself in uniform in a photo on a website.

The problem comes when you attach the photo or image to speech, not disconnected speech, but when you show the uniform and speech together.

This issue is not about rights, some of which you surrender when you join up. The issue is about the good of the service you're connected with, and the good of your unit, along with the good of the country as a whole.

Please, please, please trust me. You don't want uniformed service members appearing before political panels, talking to the news media (except where authorized by chain of command) and making statements.

Much of the buzz about this story arrises from the fact that sergeant bag-o-donuts was in uniform. Had he been in civies and made the same statements, the impact would have more likely been much less. Would you agree with that?

The uniform has power that cannot be wielded in political forums, lest the respect and honor it signifies be eroded. All citizens must believe we will follow our orders without question, lest we lose their faith, as well.

Being a citizen now, I don't want to see members of our armed services pushing one political view or another. I want them focused on their mission.

345 Outrider  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 4:47:14pm

re: #338 hbudd

This wasn't a political event. There were no current candidates participating in the discussion with the sargeant. Without politicians or political activity directed toward any candidate's run for office, this convention is no more than a business/professional meeting. What Soltz and the others do at their respective websites when they are blogging is irrelevant to the nature of the convention

Sure. The YKos was merely a convention of bloggers. Charles surely had his invitation, as did Zombie and many of the others. Oh, that's right! It was a Liberal Democrat bloggers convention. In particular, DKos bloggers and Democrat or liberal speakers.

This isn't political? What? Did they talk about the problems of growing Gardenias this year? Or how to create a cake with fondant frosting? No, they discussed how to surrender this war among other things. And lets not forget the Bush bashng.

And several (Democrat) candidates were present and spoke.

346 Outrider  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 4:52:47pm

A week or so back, our Chen Zen (spelling) made the comment that DKos did not delete diaries and they were merely "hidden".

OK Chen, how can I access this diary?

First diary post I’ve found on the incident: Daily Kos: What happened to this soldier?!?!?

(UPDATE: The diary linked above has been deleted.)

I've tried to access the diary and it's 57 acknowledged posts, but seem to have trouble "unhiding" the diary and the comments. All I get is this:

Sorry. I can't seem to find that story.

Tags: yearlykos (all tags)

Permalink | 58 comments

Comments: Expand Shrink Hide (Always) | Indented Flat (Always)

Daily Kos Help
kraant, Jolamer, worried dem, dolphin777, Spruce

347 imploder  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 4:54:28pm

re: #346 Outrider

A week or so back, our Chen Zen (spelling) made the comment that DKos did not delete diaries and they were merely "hidden".

OK Chen, how can I access this diary?


First diary post I’ve found on the incident: Daily Kos: What happened to this soldier?!?!?

(UPDATE: The diary linked above has been deleted.)


I've tried to access the diary and it's 57 acknowledged posts, but seem to have trouble "unhiding" the diary and the comments. All I get is this:

Sorry. I can't seem to find that story.

Tags: yearlykos (all tags)

Permalink | 58 comments

Comments: Expand Shrink Hide (Always) | Indented Flat (Always)

Daily Kos Help
kraant, Jolamer, worried dem, dolphin777, Spruce

I suspect they deleted it after it started getting hit by LGF.

348 Outrider  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 4:58:22pm

re: #347 imploder

I suspect they deleted it after it started getting hit by LGF


But. But. They said they didn't do that kind of thing! Censorship? An diary Wonderful Wizard of Kos didn't like? Oh my. ;-)>

349 EE  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 5:04:37pm

The "progressive" moderator didn't like the message, so he attacked the messenger. There was no effort to prove the message wrong, which was a simple statement of fact, or even to give any evidence against it or to suggest that it was not correct. All that the moderator did was attack the messenger, and threaten him. That is what happens when an inconvenient truth is pointed out, and they have nothing to rebut it with.

350 Jeewhiz  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 5:15:58pm

re: #348 Outrider

re: #347 imploder


I suspect they deleted it after it started getting hit by LGF

But. But. They said they didn't do that kind of thing! Censorship? An diary Wonderful Wizard of Kos didn't like? Oh my. ;-)>


Weenies.

351 Spiny Norman  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 5:32:43pm

re: #350 Jeewhiz

re: #348 Outrider
re: #347 imploder
I suspect they deleted it after it started getting hit by LGF
But. But. They said they didn't do that kind of thing! Censorship? An diary Wonderful Wizard of Kos didn't like? Oh my. ;-)>
Weenies.

Cowards, actually.

Markos puffed himself up announcing his intention to "destroy" the Democratic Leadership Council (the Clintons, in other words), but backed waaaay off when he figured out they would skin him alive. Hurricane Katrina gave him a very convenient cover for his full-scale retreat.

352 Jetpilot1101  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 5:34:59pm

I'd like to weigh on on this topic since I am a member of the military.

1. I have been in the military since 1994. I attended 4 years of a service Academy and then was commissioned in 1998.

2. I am currently an O-3 (LT to be exact) which is the rank I think the esteemed panel member ascended to before he either "retired" or was "passed over". I'm not sure which it is but I am sure there is a way to find out.

3. I am up for promotion this summer to O-4...when I make it I'll outrank the Mr. Soltz.

4. While it is true that you shall not use any military uniform for political purposes, I am fairly certain that publicizing your military service in conjunction with a political campaign for example (as long as you are no longer affiliated with the military in any way) is OK. That being said, Mr. Soltz can put his picture up on his website.

5. The sergeant who had the balls to stand up there and refute obvious falsehoods from the panel will probably be reprimanded by his superiors but will probably not lose his job or be given a dishonorable discharge. I don't think anything Mr. Soltz doe will get him dishonorably discharged. Any if the sergeant is brought up on charges of violating the UCMJ, I'll bet the videotape will make a nice defense at his trial.

6. In my opinion, Wes Clark should have stood up for the soldier and spoken with the man himself. I think he let his stooge do his dirty work for him because the bad press alone would kill his credibility. If a minion like Mr. Sotlz does this kind of harassment for him, Mr. Clark leaves his reputation intact and appears to take the high road.

7. Finally, many folks in the military know that KOS and the people it represents do not support the troops. Contrary to what they tell you, we are not all uneducated morons who were tricked into joining the military so we could get a pittance in a salary, food stamps, and a high school diploma. The vast majority of military members are very well educated. Sure, they may not all have masters or bachelors degrees, but I think it takes more brains to rebuild a jet engine than it does to get a masters in Political Science. I would trust the mechanics who work on my aircraft 1000 times more to make the right an honorable decision then Mr. Soltz. And don't get me going on the managerial capabilities of the senior enlisted folks. Those people would put some CEO's to shame with the amount of maintenance and manpower the manage on a day to day basis.

8. All I can say to Mr. Soltz and his bunch of flunkies is BRING IT ON! Oh and when you do, please feel free to snap to attention and salute...I do believe I will outrank you in 14 days and I know I have earned it!

Semper Par

LT USCG

353 Geepers  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 5:43:18pm

Carolyn :

As a retired military attorney who advised members on whether they could participate in political activities in the past, I can tell you that the soldier could attend the convention in uniform. The Kos convention (although to the left) is not a "political activity" like one in which a participant endorses a candidate's campaign or participates in a protest. I would agree that the people attending, and their leftist opinions, could be described as political, but this does not make the event political in a legal determination for whether an active duty member could attend while in uniform.

That throughts the whole "its against the law" argument right out the window.

354 EE  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 5:44:44pm

The sergeant who spoke was not pushing any political view at all; he was just stating what he said was a fact, that the rate at which Iraqis were being killed has been declining since the surge.

He was not advocating for or against any political candidate. He was not advocating for or against any political party. He was just stating what he said was a fact.

The moderator didn't want to hear the fact, and couldn't disprove or rebut it or discredit it in any way, so he attacked the messenger and threatened him.

355 Opilio  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 5:48:22pm

The Koz Kidz are having another go at discussing this event. How long before the mind police over there delete it?

356 Geepers  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 5:54:52pm

Opilio (#355),

From that diary:

Yoo hoo, nut job... (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:mcfly, deepfish
Welcome to never posting at DKos again.

Looks like they're getting ready to ban him entirely. You know, to prove they don't shut down opposing viewpoints.

357 wanumba  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 5:58:57pm

The regs read very clear, unless there are more that we haven't seen. Had the soldier worn a uniform while actively working for the Yearly Kos event, YES he would have violated regs. But the circumstances do not easily fall into the parameters as stated. He wasn't an active participant in furthering KOS in any way, as defined by the regs - speeches, marching, signs, convention-sanctioned commentator, greeter, photo-copier, chair-mover, table set-up, go-fer for the organizers to help run the conference. All that he'd have to leave the uniform at hime - and rightly so. Just to go and listen? Ask some questions? Unless it was a nasty fringe-o group which is logical - the regs do not prohibit no uniform if just attending. That's how they read ... yes, do not doubt for a moment the regs have been interpreted more narrowly, but the words don't support it.
Part of the listening audience? Making a comment that the surge is working? Stating a fact he knows? Facts aren't political speech. They are neutral.
There is no reason to accept the moderator's self-serving accusation so uncritically. Otherwise, the LEft has defined for everyone that political speech is by their reckoning only - and by their measure EVERYTHING is political, a definition that goes far beyond accepted social norms. That means SHUT UP to EVERYONE, uniforms or no uniforms, solider or civilian. All dissent can thus be dismissed or shut down.

Wouldn't it be very ironic if the soldier had been actually a patriotic Democrat? It's not even improbable - know quite a few of that ilk right here in this town. Ya'll know, the old fashioned Truman kind? A soldier who loved all the Dem platform, universal health care, higher minimum wage, etc. etc., but did see with his own eyes that the surge was working and knew the soldiers were doing a good job? What if he'd attended that seminar because he had respected , say General Clark and had been interested in what the man had to say? Don't think one or two or even three other life-long Dems there saw what happened and were ashamed - enough to want to quit that nasty bunch? One learns a lot at conferences - even things one didn't expect to learn when one signed up.

358 Carol Herman  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 5:59:12pm

re: #312 distwalker

It really bugs me that the left is going around saying that TNR has
verified the accuracy of their story. Here is what happened. TNR
published a story and doubts were raised about its accuracy. They said
they verified it. People didn't believe them. They went away for a week
and came back and again said they verified it. That about sums it up.

Now the moonbats are acting like it is case closed. They say the
events in the article are true because TNR said they are true. What a
load of crap. Factor in that the Army has discredited the entire thing
and the moonbat bullshit gage is pegged.

They will keep saying the stories have been proved, however.

Damned liars.


It doesn't matter what the left says, anymore than it matters that Dan Rather defended his "hit" piece against Bush, back in 2004.

In other words, TNR is putting up a "face" that shows "indifference" to the truth; which has galloped far ahead of their story.

Now, because it's August, they've closed the magazine down, not for the "usual" two weeks; but for 3. They will not be printing rebuttals.

I think Foer and the other administrative geniuses at TNR think the story about Beauchamp will fade.

Don't forget as far as we know, not only has every single member of his platoon and brigade been brought in for questionning; this also spread those TNR articles into all those hands. Since the investigators made sure the soldiers knew what TNR published.

There's now no verification that any of Beauchump's fables are even verifiable. Let alone that the one clue, one story "could have happened in Kuwait," happened "before" Beauchump was exposed to war. So there goes his premise, right out the window.

TNR will do a lot to avoid having to produce their accomplices. Probably those "journalists" from Missouri, who came on board to back Scott Thomas' take on the American military in IRAK.

Stephen Glass' lies also still stick to TNR. They've got themseles a two-fer.

Are they proud?

You think I care?

The Internet has given this magazine's attempt to paint our troops as dishonorable; so much mileage ... they might as well say "thanks." Because NOW more people know about something they never would have even known got written.

Like that "spy" Valerie P-flame. The left sure knows how to pick doozies.

I wonder how Foer is enjoying his respite from work!

If this was a prize fight, the referee would be calling the match; because TNR is so bloody. What a face pounding! The Elite Media ran into the Net. (Again!) Maybe, it means Dan Rather no longer dines alone? You care?

359 Carol Herman  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 6:03:58pm

re: #352 Jetpilot1101

Ya know? Given that this story is out there on the Net; I doubt the military would go forward to be hard-assed on the Sargeant who defended "the surge."

Media stupidities isn't a usual card for superior officers to press.

And, separate from the Sargeant's video tape defense (because I agree with you on that!) There's the visceral defense. He was there. And, he did this SPONTANEOUSLY. He didn't go in, like Cindy Sheehan, with a pre-painted sign. He just reacted.

As to Stolz, good luck. Take one look at the beribboned LOSER, Wesley Clark. Guy would love to be more important than he is. Heck, he lost to John Kerry in the beauty contest of picking a nominee in 2004! Even John Edwards is ahead of him!

And, the Sargeant may find lots of folks buying him beers. Strangers, even!

360 Tissa  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 6:07:47pm

re: #356 Geepers

Opilio (#355),

From that diary:

Yoo hoo, nut job... (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:mcfly, deepfish
Welcome to never posting at DKos again.

Looks like they're getting ready to ban him entirely. You know, to prove they don't shut down opposing viewpoints.

Kind of like this post

Slightly OT (0 / 0)
YK is under attack at DIGG - go here and bury it

[Link: digg.com...]

Soldier Censored at Kos Convention

Fireworks broke out at a Friday morning session of the second day of the YearlyKos Convention entitled "The Military and Progressives: Are They Really That Different?". An as yet unidentified uniformed soldier attempted to address the panel on the subject of the "Surge". He was unceremoniously escorted out by panelist John Stoltz.

socialist democratic progressive pragmatic idealist with a small d.

by shpilk on Sat Aug 04, 2007 at 05:10:15 PM PDT

361 Liljekonvalj  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 6:11:24pm

Just watched the video, what's with the rage?! What a bully and I feel for that soldier.

362 Opilio  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 6:13:40pm

Currently the most "recommended" comment in that soon-to-be-purged diary:

This is a coordinated right-wing campaign. (10+ / 0-)
The diary could have been paid for by the GOP.
It may not have been.
This crap has been debunked a dozen times here already.

It's part of the VRWC!

363 wanumba  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 6:19:44pm

Consider:
The moderator did not cite regs as the soldier sat, nor through some of his comments. Therefore, the man's presence in uniform in the audience hadn't constituted any infractions to note by the very same military "experts" sitting right there looking at him. If they'd thought he was supporting YearlyKos, by being there, then they could have said, "You can't be here in uniform," but they didn't. Look at the video - not many people there. It was sparsely attended. The uniform was noticeable. They saw him. They didn't criticise or correct him.
The accusation came when the moderator disagreed with the soldier and THEN threw the "political" card at him. The COMMENTS of the soldier were not accepted as just floor comments, but subjectively labeled by the moderator as "political speech," so with THAT established, they then pulled regs on him. Tag-team ambush.
Pure manipulation, just enough truth to sound right, yet not be.

364 Geepers  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 6:27:35pm

Thanks Tissa,

Copied that to the current kos thread.

365 wanumba  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 6:36:59pm

Huh!
New thread up - guess there ARE a few Dems who didn't like what they saw!

366 mrclark  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 6:58:24pm

(gleefully...)

"Don't tell us the "surge is working" while standing in uniform soldier!"

367 gwillie  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 7:57:30pm

I have picture of a anti-war in uniform hold a sign at a weekly rally in Anacortes WA
[Link: farm1.static.flickr.com...] Word is from the regulars that he is just a phony, but it proves the point that the left is not as outraged at seeing a man in uniform making a political statement as this guy is pretending to be.

368 Bob Munck  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 7:57:56pm

The wingnuts are really grasping at straws here. A 30-second incident involving a handful of people with a tiny audience. No shouting, no attempt to manhandle the soldier out of the hall. He was breaking the law, as he himself admits, but his rights were not violated. He stayed in the building and talked to various media people. Contrast to a rightwing event's exclusion and security policies.

There's one certainty: the 44th President of the United States was a participant at YearlyKos'07.

369 Ward Cleaver  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 8:17:53pm

Hey, Butt Munch is back!

370 Ward Cleaver  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 8:18:49pm

Ron Paul was at YearlyKos?

371 Outrider  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 8:49:27pm

re: #363 wanumba

Consider:
The moderator did not cite regs as the soldier sat, nor through some of his comments. Therefore, the man's presence in uniform in the audience hadn't constituted any infractions to note by the very same military "experts" sitting right there looking at him. If they'd thought he was supporting YearlyKos, by being there, then they could have said, "You can't be here in uniform," but they didn't. Look at the video - not many people there. It was sparsely attended. The uniform was noticeable. They saw him. They didn't criticise or correct him.
The accusation came when the moderator disagreed with the soldier and THEN threw the "political" card at him. The COMMENTS of the soldier were not accepted as just floor comments, but subjectively labeled by the moderator as "political speech," so with THAT established, they then pulled regs on him. Tag-team ambush.
Pure manipulation, just enough truth to sound right, yet not be.


I agree. They let him in and let him approach the microphone. The Captain had no problems at all until it sunk in that the Sergeant was not going along with the "party" line and was speaking contrary to the groupthink. Then and only then, did the moderator get upset and start his schtick.
Labeling his speech as political is absurd as the entire session was political in nature, not military. The speech I heard the young Sergeant give was a pure military assessment.

372 swamprat  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 9:47:23pm

re: #368 Bob Munck
You are so right. I mean Soltz had every right to tell a reserve officer to "stand down", because Soltz USED to be in the Army. That's why he can use the phrase "ON BEHALF OF THE ARMY" at a political rally. Thank you for your post. Everything is so much clearer now. Thank goodness they showed themselves to be fair and honest at this event, and did not threaten this miscreant, or try to stifle his questions by turning off the mike......we love ya bob

373 swamprat  Sat, Aug 4, 2007 10:42:28pm

My mistake...."for the sake of the army" was the phrase used. ...He also said "you will never, ever, ever use MY uniform....."

374 Stuck-in-CA  Sun, Aug 5, 2007 2:47:21am

re: #368 Bob Munck

There's one certainty: the 44th President of the United States was a participant at YearlyKos'07.

I didn't know Rudy showed up too! Imagine that.

375 AtadOFF  Sun, Aug 5, 2007 3:50:24am

FYI liveleak has an unedited version of the video here...

It's just an observation but did anyone else see how pathetic the turnout for this panel was? I get more people at my BBQs.

376 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 5, 2007 5:28:37am
It’s a standard “progressive” tactic when trying to divert attention from a potentially serious problem: ascribe the worst kinds of motives and emotions to those who pointed it out.

-- Charles Johnson

377 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 5, 2007 5:28:51am

re: #376 FrogMarch

It’s a standard “progressive” tactic when trying to divert attention from a potentially serious problem: ascribe the worst kinds of motives and emotions to those who pointed it out.

-- Charles Johnson

BINGO!

378 FrogMarch  Sun, Aug 5, 2007 5:34:37am

re: #368 Bob Munck

There is no way in hell Rudy would lower himself and show up at a forum for SOCIALIST PROGRESSIVE LEFT-WING echo chamber buffoons.

379 Perplexed  Sun, Aug 5, 2007 5:40:20am
And yet, merely a week after the Right did all that to Private Beauchamp — whose story has been proven true in virtually all respects, with the singular error misremembering the location of one of the stories — they have the audacity to accuse members of YearlyKos of proving insufficiently supportive of the troops.

Cognitive dissonance at its best. Count on the Constitution being shredded if people like these get into office in huge numbers.

380 buckytheinfidel  Sun, Aug 5, 2007 7:51:34am

Bless that young Sergeant's heart! It took guts to do what he did, and it was absolutely shameful the way they treated him.

His speech wasn't at all political, and for the moderator to squelch his right to free speech under color of law was disgusting. And the fact that they took the young man behind behind closed doors to commit this foul deed is proof that they knew their behavior would not stand up to the rigors of public scrutiny.

Their conduct towards this thoughtful and caring young man shows them in their true light: closed-minded, authoritarian, conformist hypocrites. Liberals in this country should really no longer think of themselves as people who "speak truth to power." Because they have become the power to which truth must be spoken.

381 socratease  Sun, Aug 5, 2007 9:00:05am

"Unearthed his MySpace page"? Isn't that a little like "unearthing" someone's Superbowl advertisement?

382 sandrine  Sun, Aug 5, 2007 3:29:41pm

#368 Where have you been? Nice to have some company here...Go Hillary

P.S. We already discussed this issue and the folks here are pretty law abiding...and know in their hearts that they want soldiers to follow the rules...no rule of law...chaos...And several of the members here have served in the military and know the rules. So if they are honest...and not hypocrites...they will stand up for their principles. If this says anything...it is that those in the military deserve credibility...especially the Captain Soltz...who is super impressive...In fact, I want Captain Soltz to run for office....He is no wimp. The sergeant was put up to this...and had no fear of repercussions for this reason. It was a cheap stunt and all of you here know it. But Soltz was up to it. If anything, Clark was a little wimpy.

383 sandrine  Sun, Aug 5, 2007 3:41:19pm

You know what I think....the lizards here are frustrated when a tough guy, i.e. Captain Soltz...gets tough and he happens to be a Democrat. You are so used to the image of Democrats as weak and wimpy that you expect that. Additionally, all of you here are fond of complaining about the Islamists and how they use our democratic ideals to subvert that very democracy (and I agree with you). But you fail to see when Republicans do it. Or you think it is OK because it is your team. But subverting rules that have arisen to protect our democracy is never a good idea because sometimes the shoe is on the other foot.

The Democrats should have let the Republicans change the rules in the senate to stymie the filibuster...because then the Republicans would be hampered in their obstructionism now that Democrats are the majority. The Gang of Eight was a strategic mistake by Democrats who supported them. But had that happened, all of you here would now be complaining. Just remember, only our principles and ideals make us great. When you don't stand up for principle, whether it benefit Democrat or Republican, we all lose. And if one thing is clear, it is that Bush and his Republicans have hurt our democracy and made us weaker. Gonzales is a disgrace and makes us look weak to rest of the world...so don't start moaning about a sergeant who deliberately broke the rules. We're not a banana republic yet.

384 sandrine  Sun, Aug 5, 2007 3:45:21pm

#340 OK you are good researcher. Do you mind informing us about how many times Republicans have done this? Men in uniform have appeared at numerous Republican events. Either we all agree on the rules or we have a free for all. Which is it? Which rules do we want here?

385 plutosdad  Mon, Aug 6, 2007 6:15:03am

One again someone on the left decries "investigation". Oh why do we silly libertarians and conservatives want to "investigate" claims? How unprogressive!


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