Wikipedia is not accepted as a source for research papers, right? Please tell me it's not.

ouch
ouch
please stop shining that light!
/NYT

Rats hate when light gets shined on them. This is long overdue.

just like YouTube...corrupt individuals with agendas continue to operate without worrying that someone might stop them
Wikipedia needs to put a big banner on their homepage stating...
"THE THINGS YOU READ ON HERE MIGHT BE COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY FALSIFIED"

busted

re: #2 Ktgab

Wikipedia is not accepted as a source for research papers, right? Please tell me it's not.

not in any legitimate school or university that I know of

crediblity gone down the drain

I'm a little worried about the extent of all the "digital monitoring" going on, but it's kind of based on an expectation of a sort of privacy that has never been there. The intertubes isn't really private.

That being said, Wikipedia has also lost the "presumption of good will" though the vast and varied history of agenda-driven inaccuracy, lies and calumny generated there. It really doesn't make sense to have anonymous encyclopedia entries, especially on controversial subjects.

All those edits do is undermine the worth of the product. There's absolutely no reason to include those kinds of edits.

As for adding Prophet before the word Mohammed, could you imagine if someone decided to start editing the name Jesus Christ to read as Lord and Savior Jesus Christ or the Messiah Jesus Christ?

The edits are being done for political and semantic reasons, and are fundamentally challenging the utility of wiki. Indeed, that you're finding major media outlets engaging in this behavior suggests that their morals and ethics are severely compromised.

Besides, doesn't the NYT have better things to do than sanitize its record on wiki? Seems that Keller and Pinch ought to be firing people who should be fact checking their own stories rather than trying to rewrite history on wiki (where the edits are available to see who did what).

I'm not surprised at all- I've found one myself and had to have Ginn edit it. Now when I search it, I find this at wikipedia:

sharmuta

Hmmm, makes me wonder. Charles can you come up with a thingamajig to identify posts here at LGF made by folks at Reuters, etc.? Maybe highlight them in pink or something?

Bwaaahahahahaha

I love it.

Even the koskidz noticed....
Diebold, CIA edit wiki entries

Voting-machine company Diebold provides a good example... with someone at the company's IP address apparently deleting long paragraphs detailing the security industry's concerns over the integrity of their voting machines, and information about the company's CEO's fund-raising for President George Bush.

/snip

Employees at the CIA's net address, for example, have been busy -- but with little that would indicate their place of apparent employment, or a particular bias.

One entry on "Black September in Jordan" contains wholesale additions, with specific details that read like a popular history book or an eyewitness' memoir.

re: #8 Plato

crediblity gone down the drain

Long ago.

re: #2 Ktgab

I don't allow my students to use it...

Wikipedia...a guilty pleasure to visit and read. But never, ever, take it too seriously. I always keep several grains of salt nearby...

re: #2 Ktgab

I am on the editorial staff of a scholarly journal and never permit a writer to cite Wikipedia in an annotation. Indeed, I am automatically prejudcied against anyone who summits an article with such a citation.

Some of them won't care, a few will stop for a while, and the rest will switch to anonomizer tools. Being honest is not one of the options that will occur.

re: #2 Ktgab

Wikipedia is not accepted as a source for research papers, right? Please tell me it's not.

From what I hear, only for technical information, i.e. computer parts or periodic table kind of stuff. Though, with the resurgence of "Islamic Science," that may be an area of conflict again.

I'm sure there are some moonbat professors whose "subject area" on Wiki is "edited" in accordance with their agenda, so they probably accept it as a source.

Generally speaking, people prefer a source that is likely to be the same when someone else looks at it the next day. Wiki can't do that, and therefore isn't reliable.

re: #2 Ktgab

Wikipedia is not accepted as a source for research papers, right? Please tell me it's not.

Not by my friend who teaches freshman composition at a two-year college, or by any of his colleagues, AFAIK.

This is not surprising to me. In recent years we have heard of Islamofascists posting as "Americans" to try and sway public opinion.

I'd be willing to bet a hige proportion of negative to the U.S., President Bush, etc. on all forums are being done by Muslims pretending to be Americans.

So, now we hear Wiki is compromised. I never thought it was all that authoritative on important things anyway.

re: #2 Ktgab

Wikipedia is not accepted as a source for research papers, right? Please tell me it's not.

Unfortunately, in some circles it is, and I have seen it sourced in the news media as well.

I have had to tell my kids that I don't care what the teachers say, Wiki is NOT a source!

re: #2 Ktgab

Well.....my high school teacher son, in the past, has not ruled it out for his students..........I just sent him the link here....waiting for him to get to his office to see it..... :)

there's nothing like that false sense of security the internet gives you coming back to nip you in the butt

OT

Just-resigned presidential advisor Karl Rove told reporters yesterday that his future plans include working on a book. He has already talked to Robert Barnett, the Washington-based Williams & Connolly lawyer who has brokered high-powered book deals for everyone from Bill and Hillary Clinton to Alan Greenspan to Jenna Bush, though no further details on the book are forthcoming as of yet. When reached for comment, Barnett referred all questions, including whether the book would be a memoir or something broader, and how quickly Rove might be preparing a proposal, to Rove’s office.

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Even the koskidz noticed....
Diebold, CIA edit wiki entries

... and pointedly ignored the NY Slimes and Al Jazeera, not surprisingly.

Its sad really.

Wikipedia is ok if you are looking for innocuous crap, like the Doctor Who episode guide for season two, or a summary of Harry Potter novels, etc.
Anything policical/historical etc must be verified through other sources.

IMO

The site is up, but his SQL server is swamped now... I can't wait to take this app for a ride.

Reuters Canary Wharf sent you a death threat ?
Aren't they supposed to report the news, not be newsworthy themselves ?

"Shared responsibility" FEELS like such a noble thing, but turns out like THIS Wikipedia gurf!

re: #31 Pass The Moonbaticide

Reuters Canary Wharf sent you a death threat ?
Aren't they supposed to report the news, not be newsworthy themselves ?

No. Not when there is an agenda to defend.

Never trusted the site from the beginning.

To quote my friend Petey, "Journalism is the first draft of rewritten history."

Jewish slave trade at wiki
Jewish slave trade to be deleted at wiki

There's a similar discussion for "sharmuta" however the page for sharmuta is gone while the page on the Jewish slave trade is still up.

...Ah Yes - History SHALL treat me kindly - For I Shall WRITE It!

-S-

re: #29 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

it's also pretty good for some science stuff, like math formulas, things where opinion has no place

Wikipedia is not so bad if you only use it for technical matters or topics related to older history. The more recent and politicized the topic or person becomes, the less reliable it is.

Dutch bishop urges faithful to call God ‘Allah’

[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

re: #23 Stonemason

re: #2 Ktgab

Wikipedia is not accepted as a source for research papers, right? Please tell me it's not.

Unfortunately, in some circles it is, and I have seen it sourced in the news media as well.

I have had to tell my kids that I don't care what the teachers say, Wiki is NOT a source!

Wikipedia is basically an Encyclopedia, and as such shouldn't be an accepted source for anything. Even back in High School my teachers wouldn't let us use encyclopedias (you need to go back to the original source). That some teachers/professors now allow their students to use a resource that has little accountability is a sign of how far education has fallen in the US.

Checked out the Wired article for more fair and balanced reporting...

Diebold .... check

President Bush ... check

Walmart ..... check

Republican Senator Conrad Burns .... check

CIA ..... check

Halliburton .... check

drug and pharmaceutical companies ... check

How did they leave out Karl Rove?

re: #2 Ktgab

Wikipedia is not accepted as a source for research papers, right? Please tell me it's not.

No, it is not. Not anymore at least. For that matter, I will not accept Wiki as a source for a research paper from my 4th and 5th grade homeschooled students.

re: #41 sheik yer'mami

Dutch bishop urges faithful to call God ‘Allah’

[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

Pull my tongue out first. I refuse to do such a thing.

re: #39 bosforus

re: #29 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

it's also pretty good for some science stuff, like math formulas, things where opinion has no place

That too, but with much of the content on Wiki one should follow Ronald Reagan's principle...Trust but verify.

And good job, Virgil!

This is funny, 'cos many a time I've been having an e-argument with some terrorist-appeaser and I've cited something from wikipedia, and they've kindly informed me that wikipedia is controlled by the Zionists/Jews and so can't be trusted.
I still like wiki though. I'll just get me take on politics from multiple sources. Which'll be easy, because I'm about as interested in politics as I am in old ladies' bowel movements. But it's a general rule anyway: get your information from multiple sources.

re: #45 galloping granny

But what about blogs that reference it? Do people feel that blogs should avoid it as well? It can be useful, in certain circumstances.

If Wiki wants to be regarded as intellectually honest, then they need to start posting the IP numbers and names of those who do the editing.

re: #44 newtfan

Checked out the Wired article for more fair and balanced reporting...

Diebold .... check

President Bush ... check

Walmart ..... check

Republican Senator Conrad Burns .... check

CIA ..... check

Halliburton .... check

drug and pharmaceutical companies ... check

How did they leave out Karl Rove?

Maybe they're having a bad hair day?

darkeness truly is afraid of the Light.

darkness runs and hides anytine the Light of Truth is shined upon it.

re: #51 galloping granny

If Wiki wants to be regarded as intellectually honest, then they need to start posting the IP numbers and names of those who do the editing.

I thought they did? If you look at a page's history?

/color me confused

re: #18 Clio

re: #2 Ktgab

I am on the editorial staff of a scholarly journal and never permit a writer to cite Wikipedia in an annotation. Indeed, I am automatically prejudcied against anyone who summits an article with such a citation.

And, I would be automatically prejudiced against any teacher who allows work to be submitted with such a citation.

Funny -- When I was in high school -- 16, clueless, and not a very good student -- I got chewed out in class for having submitted a history of the US paper in which one of the citations was from the Encyclopaedia Britannica. That was where I learned that "citing reference works is not considered very scholarly". My standards have since increased substantially... Unfortunately, I have observed that those of others have been decreasing steadily.

re: #29 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Wikipedia is ok if you are looking for innocuous crap, like the Doctor Who episode guide for season two, or a summary of Harry Potter novels, etc.
Anything policical/historical etc must be verified through other sources.

IMO

Wikipedia is useful as a starting point; the sources cited will generally give a better picture.

The comments in the "discussion" section are a hoot.

re: #41 sheik yer'mami

Dutch bishop urges faithful to call God ‘Allah’

[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

What can one expect from someone named Tiny Muskens?

Honestly, folks--as soon as someone does a "chmod 777" on your website (making it possible for anyone to edit--that's the premise of Web 2.0, or so we're told), how could things be otherwise?

Wikipedia isn't all bad, but it's quicksand. For something to be a reference, it needs to be a little more fixed.

Just let me know the date by which we are to refer to Wikipedia as "al-Wikipedia" and I'll make sure and update all of the research I've done citing Wikipedia as a source. The whole process should take no seconds.

re: #47 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

exactly, if i'm ever using wiki to find a formula it's to find out the very basics, then i'll go to some math or physics site for the rest

Here's the Wikipedia entry for "Charles Johnson" and the one for "Little Green Footballs".

Does anyone notice any inaccuracies, smears, or omissions?

re: #58 ZionistYoungster

Honestly, folks--as soon as someone does a "chmod 777" on your website (making it possible for anyone to edit--that's the premise of Web 2.0, or so we're told), how could things be otherwise?

Wikipedia isn't all bad, but it's quicksand. For something to be a reference, it needs to be a little more fixed.

Eggs Ackley!

re: #46 vxbush

re: #41 sheik yer'mami

Dutch bishop urges faithful to call God ‘Allah’

[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

Pull my tongue out first. I refuse to do such a thing.

I could not agree with you more! But you left out the best part -

Breda - The Dutch Roman Catholic bishop Tiny Muskens is urging the faithful of all religions to call God Allah in order to foster mutual understanding.

F*** "mutual understanding." I have all the understanding I need. YHWH is absolutely NOT "allah" the moongod. That one is old stan back again with the same old lies. "Let him who has eyes to see and ears to hear understand."

I have noticed such editing for a number of years. I also see the same thing at You Tube and Digg comments. Frequently the poster is pretending to be a moonbat, but in fact has the writing characteristics of a Muslim, with the anti-women, jewish slurs that are always a give-away.

Wiki is a great source if you're looking to settle a late-night drinking/bar bet....OTHER than that, I mean....How much faith can you put into a source that has moonbats at the controls?

OK, at least moonbat fingerprints on the controls....

re: #58 ZionistYoungster

Honestly, folks--as soon as someone does a "chmod 777" on your website (making it possible for anyone to edit--that's the premise of Web 2.0, or so we're told), how could things be otherwise?

Wikipedia isn't all bad, but it's quicksand. For something to be a reference, it needs to be a little more fixed.

I've found bizarre political vandalism in entries that have nothing political about them.

re: #37 Sharmuta

Jewish slave trade at wiki
Jewish slave trade to be deleted at wiki

There's a similar discussion for "sharmuta" however the page for sharmuta is gone while the page on the Jewish slave trade is still up.

Now that's a pretty sloppy article, with poorly-drawn conclusions, inconsistent word usage and missing or bad sources.

Pretty much what we expect from Wikipedia. Propaganda.

re: #54 vxbush

re: #51 galloping granny

If Wiki wants to be regarded as intellectually honest, then they need to start posting the IP numbers and names of those who do the editing.

I thought they did? If you look at a page's history?

/color me confused

You should not have to look at a page's history to see that. It should be front and center, just like the author's name on a journal article or your nic here.

re: #62 Carridine

Hi Carridine! Thanks for the comment you left me on my blog.

Wikipedia: Revisionist Historians never had it so easy.

Marxist Approved^TM

Credibility and anonymity rarely go hand in hand.

re: #46 vxbush

Umm...I'll consider doing that when muslims start calling "Allah" by the name "Jesus Christ" (I'd even settle for "Father in Heaven").

Of course, since muslims do not consider all humans equal, they cannot fathom the concept of a heavenly fathe--of whom we are all offspring--or a divine Savior. Therefore I don't expect to be using the term "allah" in my personal religious vernacular anytime soon.

This bishop would've already been burned as a heretic under old-school Catholicism. He should be given the Catholic Dwight Schrute "shun" treatment at least. Being Dutch, he shall know be known as Faader De Frok.

re: #69 ZionistYoungster

Yr welcome!

/gotta go, its 2315 here and 0530 rolls around right quick

re: #72 looking closely

Credibility and anonymity rarely go hand in hand.

I'll nominate that for a rotating title...

re: #2 Ktgab

Wikipedia is not accepted as a source for research papers, right? Please tell me it's not.

NO! Every semester, to my embarrassment and perverse amusement, most of my professors have to remind the class (after the first papers have been submitted) that wikipedia (NOT EVEN WITH THE FULL copy/pasted!) is not an acceptable bibliographic citation.

re: #50 vxbush

re: #45 galloping granny

But what about blogs that reference it? Do people feel that blogs should avoid it as well? It can be useful, in certain circumstances.

Like others have pointed out, if you want to know about a TV series, Wiki is a fine source. It is great if you want a quick and easy list of other sources to consult (I do let my students do that) and they sometimes have some great graphics freely available. If you want serious, accurate history, politics or science you need to look somewhere else.

re: #68 galloping granny

re: #54 vxbush

re: #51 galloping granny

If Wiki wants to be regarded as intellectually honest, then they need to start posting the IP numbers and names of those who do the editing.

I thought they did? If you look at a page's history?

/color me confused

You should not have to look at a page's history to see that. It should be front and center, just like the author's name on a journal article or your nic here.

I appreciate your desire for information, but I think the data involving a page edit is too wieldy to see up front. I mean, not only do you want to know who is editing and when, but *what*. That involves a lot of data and a lot of change history.

The page history includes everything you need to know *except* the affiliation of the editor, which Griffith does. Which is nice.

re: #37 Sharmuta

Jewish slave trade at wiki
Jewish slave trade to be deleted at wiki

There's a similar discussion for "sharmuta" however the page for sharmuta is gone while the page on the Jewish slave trade is still up.

I saw that....I'm a Slav woman....creepy.

re: #76 Simon Jester

*that should read 'FULL URL'

re: #50 vxbush

But what about blogs that reference it? Do people feel that blogs should avoid it as well? It can be useful, in certain circumstances.

How can an unreliable source of information that can change in seconds be useful? Tempting, yes, useful, no.

re: #64 pat

Frequently the poster is pretending to be a moonbat, but in fact has the writing characteristics of a Muslim, with the anti-women, jewish slurs that are always a give-away.

Actually, I've known plenty of honkey liberals who are misogynistic and anti-semitic, so it's not as dead a giveaway as you think!

Love the integrity of the CIA in this article. Apparently the thought of exposing the NYT and al-Jazeera, while admitting the CIA isn't involved in some conspiracy, is just too much for the author to handle.

(hmm....might as well leave out the fine liberal institutions). //

OT: Congressman calls for Hearings on Islamic-Mexican Drug Gang Connections

I wouldn't be surprised if they add PBUH.....

The Legal Jihad Is Already Underway

When will the West awaken? Of course, I am not talking about your ordinary citizen or soldier but about our Talking Heads and other gate-keeping chatterers who simply refuse to "get it." Cambridge University Press not only recalls but has promised to pulp the book that authoritatively documents one Saudi billionaire's funding of terror; many anti-jihadic writers and all our leading mainstream media have privately apologized to this same billionaire. Only Rachel Ehrenfeld has refused to "apologize" for telling the truth and has counter-sued him in an American court of law based on her First Amendment right to tell the truth. (She was initially sued in London where she lost by default; she chose not to appear in court).

Islamists are moving against us in the West very carefully and in legal ways. In the overly revered "Third World" they speak in violence, their speech IS violence. I hope that Taslima Nasrin remains safe and in India. And that the sleeping giant awakens before we have all been sued and censored into silence.

Communicating with Angels 101

Norwegian Princess Märtha Louise is under fire. She wants to open a school to teach people how to communicate with angels. Now, some are calling for her to renounce her royal title. When one thinks of European royalty scandals, it is generally Prince Harry (dressing as a Nazi) or Ernst August Prinz von Hannover (caught urinating in public) that comes to mind. But as Norway is demonstrating these days, its royal family can hold their own in the headline-generating department. To whit: Princess Märtha Louise, fourth in line to the Norwegian throne, has generated a storm of criticism in the Scandinavian country for her plan to start a school that will teach people how to communicate with angels.On Monday, one influential paper from the western town of Bergen demanded that the princess renounce her royal title. She has also been blasted by politicians, prominent journalists and TV pastor Jan Hanvold who accused her of blasphemy and said that Märtha was "an emissary from hell." There have also been calls for her to be excommunicated from the state Evangelical Lutheran church. Most critics accuse her of trying to use her royalty status for profit. "As a princess and theoretically an heir to the throne (the princess) needs to relate to the rest of us others within a certain framework," Bergens Tidende wrote in a Monday editorial. Norway's leading daily Aftenposten also carried an editorial on Monday questioning Märtha Louise's business idea.

Prominent Dutch support ex-Muslims

Prominent Labour PvdA member Jos de Beus, professor of political science, has joined the support committee for ex-Muslims, as have columnist Theodor Holman, philosopher Paul Cliteur and at least 11 other well-known Dutch people.

The support committee – affiliated with the committee for ex-Muslims chaired by Ehsan Jami, under extra security since an attack just a week and a half ago – plans to ask 150 people, including the faction leaders in Parliament, to sign a statement soon. De Beus – an open critic of his own party – thinks that this topic is one that all parties should be concerned about.

"I want to make one simple point: everyone should be able to believe what they like, and anyone who wants to stop believing should be able to do so freely and safely. I don't think is a little game on the part of neoconservatives. It should be a part of the consensus in Europe."

re: #83 SeafoodGumbo

Hey, habibi, you got the yayo?

re: #67 Merovign

It's just wrong. The slave markets were run by the caliphate.

It wasn't me. I promise.

this is related, and somewhat amusing

where I live there are two local and competing poetry groups (none know of my secret life of writing political songs and poems for the web)

the leaders each seem to have made their own wiki entries, one of which includes BS like "won jr high poetry contest" or some such nonsense

someone made the editorial comment that the whole item should be removed because it was entirely self-written and the subject had no significant accomplishments

so when the NYT re-writes its own page, that's a red flag.
those edits are worthless
self-praise is faint praise

and why not go all the way: "the world's last prophet, Mohammed..."

My wikipedia page has a ridiculous section added by a moonbat editor called "Motivation." It's biased, unneeded, and contains some off-topic mini-smear on zombietime. Not a single other blogger's or pundit's Wikipedia entry has a "Motivation" section.

I'd like it removed, as I consider it defacement, but for the very reason that Wikipedia keeps track of the IPs of editors, I can't and won't remove that section myself. (Also, I don't have a wikipedia account and I have no idea how to edit it.)

Any volunteers to remove the "Motivation" section from zombietime? You'd have my gratitude. Either that, or edit it to be less stupid -- there are many other more accurate quotes that could be used. (I could point you to them.)

re: #68 galloping granny

re: #54 vxbush

re: #51 galloping granny

If Wiki wants to be regarded as intellectually honest, then they need to start posting the IP numbers and names of those who do the editing.

I thought they did? If you look at a page's history?

/color me confused

You should not have to look at a page's history to see that. It should be front and center, just like the author's name on a journal article or your nic here.

That would make the pages untidy, messy, and generally not suitable for looking up encyclopedic information which is their primary purpose. (Note that I am not commenting on the accuracy/inaccuracy/bias which may or may not be present in the articles.)

If someone really wants to see the edit history of an article it is there for them to do so. There are also discussion pages for most articles, and articles which are susceptible to bias generally have active discussion/flame wars on these pages.

Some day we'll all look back in fondness at the roots of the second Clinton Administration's Ministry of Information, once known as Wikipedia.

re: #90 zombie

you low-wattage player, you.

Testing^tm

Pajama boys strike again. I love watching an American stomp an institution that believes itself an authority (in this case, authority on itself...). TOO FUNNY.

re: #87 Sharmuta

It's just wrong. The slave markets were run by the caliphate.

And to an extent and volume that boggles the mind. I think you and I both know the motivation behind the "article" you linked to, and it ain't got nothing to do with historical knowledge.

re: #85 Fjordman

We are such an easy target. They plot to kill us and we treat it as a 'criminal action' not an act of war. The politicians are content with their paychecks and heads in the sand. Amazing how politics over runs our borders to foreign nations, but current events and the Islamofascist movement stop at our waters edge and never permeate the current vernacular.

They are following one of the perfect rules of salesmanship/swindling: "Never ask the question you don't want the answer to."

The average American is too busy eeking out the paycheck and supporting the family to care...

When the Perfect Storm hits in full...we are for an interesting ride...

This is very interesting. Many people believe everything they see on the Internet.
It use to be ‘Don’t believe everything you read’ Now it’s ‘If a computer printed it, it’s true.’ ‘If I got it as an e-mail it’s a fact.’ ‘If it’s posted online, it’s gospel.’

I get tired of explaining to my computer users not to worry about that Nigerian Oil Minister.

re: #41 sheik yer'mami
... and Imams will be calling Him Jehovah/Jahweh/Krsna etc subsequently in solidarity with their Christian. Jewish and other faith brothers .
/What do you mean , 'NO' ? Doesn't it work both ways ?
// Don't answer . Rhetorical .

re: #87 Sharmuta

re: #67 Merovign

It's just wrong. The slave markets were run by the caliphate.

Not according to the latest "history" books out for the elementary school set. Just finished reviewing one that makes it very clear that the slave markets arose and existed entirely to allow the Spanish (quickly followed by the Portuguese, English, Dutch & French) to acquire black slaves for their plantations in the New World, since they had killed off all of the natives.

Look, I am deeply critical of Wikipedia sometimes, too, but to say that you should never under any circumstances use it is a bit childish. Even my own entry there isn't that bad. I am just writing an article about why the ancient Greeks and Romans would not have been able to stage the Scientific and Industrial Revolutions, and I did use Wikipedia for some information regarding Galileo and the Medici family. Can you use Wikipedia while searching for info about the Italian Renaissance? Yes, with some caution. Should you use it while searching for information about Robert Spencer or Islam? Not in a million years.

Funny! -- here's an excerpt from The Wikipedia FAQK:

But why should I contribute to an article [to Wikipedia]? I'm no expert.

That's fine. The Wikipedia philosophy can be summed up thusly: "Experts are scum." For some reason people who spend 40 years learning everything they can about, say, the Peloponnesian War -- and indeed, advancing the body of human knowledge -- get all pissy when their contributions are edited away by Randy in Boise who heard somewhere that sword-wielding skeletons were involved. And they get downright irate when asked politely to engage in discourse with Randy until the sword-skeleton theory can be incorporated into the article without passing judgment.

re: #97 Merovign

it ain't got nothing to do with historical knowledge.

You nailed it before- propaganda. Whatever you do, please do not learn the true history of islam and of it's spreading by the sword since the days of mohammed himself. You might start getting ideas like islam is not a religion of peace.

re: #41 sheik yer'mami

On GoV, I posted a comment explaining what the problem with this is, from my point of view.

Those slave articles seem determined to prove some sort of European slave trade and minimize Arab influence. everyone of Serenesoulnyc has a similar theme. I am guessing this is a Black Muslim. As for the Sharmuta article, I imagine it must have been of a similar nature.

re: #103 Fjordman

I think the majority view isn't that we should swear off Wiki entirely; even I use it for quick answers with relation to math or computer science. It has its uses. Anything involving opinions, though, is suspect.

re: #90 zombie

OK...that's one down on the to-do list....
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

zombie,
I've never seen this one before.

You will always be my hero!

re: #109 pat

As for the Sharmuta article, I imagine it must have been of a similar nature.

Yes- they tried to link it to da Joooooooooooooooooos!

re: #100 FreeIowa

This is very interesting. Many people believe everything they see on the Internet.
It use to be ‘Don’t believe everything you read’ Now it’s ‘If a computer printed it, it’s true.’ ‘If I got it as an e-mail it’s a fact.’ ‘If it’s posted online, it’s gospel.’

I get tired of explaining to my computer users not to worry about that Nigerian Oil Minister.

That stems from the time when computers first came on the scene, resulting in an absolute balled-up mess of billing for almost everyone in the US. Invariably, when you complained about some clearly erroneous bill (like the $3,000 electric bill) you got the reply "Not our fault - it was the computer that did it!) to which I say --

Garbage in ------------> Garbage out!

re: #111 mondoreb

What?!?!?
OK...back to the drawing board.....

re: #111 mondoreb

Thanks!

re: #102 galloping granny

Indeed- never mind how those Africans really ended up in the slave markets being bought by the Europeans.

re: #2 Ktgab
I work in a college library and you'd be amazed how many students try....

A lot of them think anything they get off the Internet is true and factual.
I do a library orientation to teach them the difference between Yahoo/Google/Wikipedia and the real databases.
Instructors will not accept anything else...thank goodness.

OT

Regarding the Mayor of Macon GA who recently sent a letter to Chavez in an offer of unity. It turns out this mayor is converting to Islam. Is this the type of support we can expect from Muslims living in the U.S.?

Can these people be any more stupid? I hope so. Their own worst enemy so to speak.

re: #103 Fjordman

That fits with my point. It's not the issue of credibility--that's the same whether it's Wikipedia, Britannica, a geographic magazine or an MSM outlet. The issue here is stability: Wikipedia is a moving target. Of course, it may be argued it's also a strength, because it means errors and distortions can be fixed quickly, but this instability means you never know what you're going to get (sorry about that, Forrest) when you visit a given Wikipedia entry.

#110: I agree. Let me put it this way: If I search for information about a specific individual at Wikipedia, I prefer that he or she has been dead for a few hundred years, or at least before Socialism was invented.

I gave up on wikipedia, I only use [Link: uncyclopedia.org...] as a trusted source.

Well done, Virgil Griffith at Cal Tech.

I pledge never to go off topic, either introducing or responding, again. Did it on my first day here. This is my second.

Do the residents of Hawaii County know that this link will let them see Hurricane Flossie at it approaches?

Flossie has just dropped below major (category 3) strength, but is still expected to bring sustained tropical storm force winds to much of the island of Hawaii, with hurricane force gusts on the South coast and in exposed locations at elevation.

Flooding rains also possible.

Of course, next week this time y'all will be wishing for neon flashing posts as Hurricane Dean approaches the Bahamas on its way to Florida.

Dean is just a Tropical Storm now, but easterly shear is weakening, and the waters grow ever warmer.

Not sure how they'll manage, with 4 WC-130Js in Hawaii (well, one is inside Flossie) and 3 deploying/deployed to St. Croix to start flying into Tropical Storm Dean on Thursday, but I guess they still have an older H model WC-130 Hercules, and should depart to see if this Gulf disturbance is Tropical Depression #5 or Tropical Storm Erin. Assuming it develops, a NOAA WP-3D Orion, a 35 year old relic, will fly a center recon fix tomorrow as the USAFR 53rd WRS is getting low in assets.

I wonder where The Weather Channel's on air meteorologist Captain Nicole Mitchell and Lieutenant Colonel Warren Madden are. The are both reserve flight tropical meteorologists, and as busy as the 53rd WRS is, I wonder if they've been called to do more than their regular two week summer stint.

Recall that the most senior hurricane forecaster at the NHC, CDR Stacy Stewart, was called back to active duty in the Navy, and is now assigned to training Iraqi recruits and escorting convoys outside Baghdad. His reserve duty was with the JTWC in Honolulu, allowing him to claim to be the only man in the world who actively tracks tropical cyclones in every basin in the world.

BTW, check out Stewart's biceps. That dude must lift some serious weights.

re: #126 chinesearithmetic

Welcome to LGF.

re: #112 NoSubmission

zombie,
I've never seen this one before.

Really? It was pretty well publicized at the time! A golden oldie. That's the last report I did with my original old camera, hence the dim, blurry pictures. (It was also dusk, during a rainstorm.)

'Secret' plan would give Palestinians West Bank
Israeli cities included in cede-back proposal

JERUSALEM – Newly installed Israeli President Shimon Peres has quietly drafted a plan for the Jewish state to evacuate and transfer to the Palestinians nearly the entire West Bank and several Arab Israeli cities located within territory that is undisputedly Israel's according to the international community...

Same music...different musician....

*Bangs head against wall....*

re: #118 Sharmuta

re: #102 galloping granny

Indeed- never mind how those Africans really ended up in the slave markets being bought by the Europeans.

The funny thing is, Sharm, the authors of this "fine book" (read piece of trash) apparently thought they were doing a huge service to the original inhabitants of the Americas by trashing each and every European action, but in the end they insulted virtually all American Indians* anyway - pretty grievously. Every single American Indian of any tribe is portrayed either wearing nothing by a loincloth (Mexico and the SW) or in typical Hollywood feather headdresses - NE & Canada - despite clear evidence of what they actually wore. Turned them into nothing but caricatures!

*For those of you who would have me write "Native American" let me quote to you R. Carlos Nikai, a rather famous American Indian musician, at Dartmouth College a couple of years ago:

"All of us here in this room who were born in the United States, we're all Native American. I am a Native American, but I am also an American Indian of the Navajo tribe."

re: #126 chinesearithmetic

welcome, chinesearithmetic! there's an abacus joke in your name somewhere...

re: #90 zombie

OK...one mo time...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

re: #11 Sharmuta

I'm not surprised at all- I've found one myself and had to have Ginn edit it. Now when I search it, I find this at wikipedia:

sharmuta

You're right-why just look at the insult they have made to the-

Byzantine jewsih merchants

I feel like this about it
[Link: www.dramaticprairiedog.com...]

re: #117 zombie

No problemos!
That seems to have fixed it!

Ta-da!

Netherlands Bishop says Christians should pray to Allah....
Let's call God Allah

The Bishop of Breda, Tiny Muskens, wants people to start calling God Allah. He says the Netherlands should look to Indonesia, where the Christian churches already pray to Allah. It is also common in the Arab world: Christian and Muslim Arabs use the words God and Allah interchangeably.

Bsschop Muskens Speaking on the Dutch TV programme Network on Monday evening, Bishop Muskens (pictured) says it could take another 100 years but eventually the name Allah will be used by Dutch churches. And that will promote rapprochement between the two religions.

Excellent sleuthing Charles and thank you for exposing these revisionist liars.

re: #137 Killgore Trout

how in the world does taking on another religion's values count as rapprochement?! isn't that the definition of the word submission or conversion?

Since I saw this Video of an ejaculating pen*s on Wikipedia.. I don't let my kids near the site.
How many parents even know this kind of stuff is on Wikipedia?
Under the word Vulva you can see a real picture of a woman's pierced Private part.

Plus, this is kinda funny. Oral sex in Islamic law

Wikipedia's a great source for finding obscure scientific, movie, pro-wrestling, or comic book trivia.

For any "maintream" topic more controversial than "Potato", it's an absolutely worthless sewer. The rules simply don't lend themselves to maintaining good order, and the admins tend to be absolute retards.

Humm, so that's what an IP search looks like. I won't be doing one any time soon!

People don't pay attention to what is in Wikipedia, do they? If so, that is much like some of the revisionist historians I've read, and heard. Not good source material.

re: #12 Aladin Sane

Yellow would be more apropos.

Wikipedia is an online joke, repeatedly I attempted to post information about the Cirrus Aircraft Company, the maker of the aircraft that flew into a Manhattan apartment building as well as ones killing two dozen other high time pilots--only to see the statement immediately removed: first by the Cirrus Aircraft Co. and then later by a monitor who referred to my 24 years experience as a commercial pilot as "vandalism" and blocked me from posting and more entries.

Wikipedia is a propaganda tool for various companies and groups, there is no contrarian information allowed; they are far far off their mission statement of assembling group information.

re: #102 galloping granny

What, the textbook writers think there were never any slaves except in the New World?

Oh, well. I will never forget a conversation with a man, in which he asserted that Roman slaves were predominately black!

#10 lawhawk

As for adding Prophet before the word Mohammed, could you imagine if someone decided to start editing the name Jesus Christ to read as Lord and Savior Jesus Christ or the Messiah Jesus Christ?

Well, Christ does means Messiah or anointed one.

I've been drunk at Caltech.

re: #147 Dianna

re: #102 galloping granny

What, the textbook writers think there were never any slaves except in the New World?

Oh, well. I will never forget a conversation with a man, in which he asserted that Roman slaves were predominately black!

Apparently so. They also stated right on page one that Europeans had only started tradingwith India and China about a hundred years before Columbus (what about the Romans?) and by page 10 had increased Cortez' (Now Cortes) force to "thousands." (400 or so.)

re: #102 galloping granny

Not according to the latest "history" books out for the elementary school set. Just finished reviewing one that makes it very clear that the slave markets arose and existed entirely to allow the Spanish (quickly followed by the Portuguese, English, Dutch & French) to acquire black slaves for their plantations in the New World, since they had killed off all of the natives.

I view school textbooks, sadly, in about the same light as I do Wikipedia. They change less often, and yet still manage to be as unreliable!

No wonder the world doesn't make sense to kids today... they're being raised on a made-up fantasy history!

re: #146 Right Brain

You didn't pay someone enough. History can be bought.

re: #144 CLLRusso

IP's are assigned by blocks of values to an ISP, institution (school), corporation, etc. They have to provide some information to be reachable (for administration purposes) so there are databases that estimate geo-location with the IP address block given out. It isn't perfect, but usually refined by using other data sources and user input. It can be reliable down to the city/region in most cases and sometimes down to offices/buildings.

People are only just now getting wise to the fact that Wikipedia is abused - no reputable journal or school accepts work that references Wikipedia. People are also just now getting wise to the fact that the Internet isn't 100% anonymous either :)

This post about 'IP' information tied to known entities is fascinating stuff.

Over a week ago, Robert Spencer was notified about a comment that needed to be deleted. Within an hour of the post, the offending comment was deleted, yet CAIR had saved that one offending comment to use on CNN later that evening. It would be interesting if the 'IP' address of the offending comment would reveal a similar connection to CAIR.

Here’s a very interesting tool built by Caltech graduate student Virgil Griffith

He's a damn genius. WTG, Virgil!

re: #150 galloping granny

Apparently so. They also stated right on page one that Europeans had only started tradingwith India and China about a hundred years before Columbus (what about the Romans?) and by page 10 had increased Cortez' (Now Cortes) force to "thousands." (400 or so.)

And lo, the 933 innocent Persian kitchen appliance merchants were slaughtered by the 3300 Spartans and 1200 ¼ Thespians at Thermopylae...

The 117 original colonies of the United States oppressed the Chinese natives of South America...

The ancient and peaceful moon people were wiped out in 23,000 BC by British Colonial forces...

Sure, that's an exaggeration. A slight exaggeration. But with what I hear from schoolkids these days, they're being taught more urban legend than history.

re: #154 justamomof4

This post about 'IP' information tied to known entities is fascinating stuff.

Over a week ago, Robert Spencer was notified about a comment that needed to be deleted. Within an hour of the post, the offending comment was deleted, yet CAIR had saved that one offending comment to use on CNN later that evening. It would be interesting if the 'IP' address of the offending comment would reveal a similar connection to CAIR.

Either CAIR has someone on the payroll whose sole job is to troll for this stuff, or they have a script running that does screenscrapes of sites like Robert's, to collect deletion-worthy comments.

re: #157 Ward Cleaver

Either CAIR has someone on the payroll whose sole job is to troll for this stuff, or they have a script running that does screenscrapes of sites like Robert's, to collect deletion-worthy comments.

You missed out the "someone at CAIR posted the comment and took a screenshot so they could use it as a propaganda tool" option.

It's not like we don't have experience with that sort of behavior here at LGF, what with the Kossacks and DUmmies and all.

120 cookie

Just like a lot of adults think everything the MSM presents to them is factual.

re: #150 galloping granny

What?!

Good lord, who is writing this stuff? All of that is easily verifiable!

Well, at this point, it's not the fault of the kids being propagandized, is it?

re: #130 zombie It must have been huge. But it was in 2004, long before I knew of you and LGF. Actually, I found you before I found Charles.

You FARKed him Charles.

Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Too many connections in /jizz4/web/wikipedia/docs/name2ip.php on line 155
Could not connect -- error: Too many connections

Wikipedia shouldn't be used as a source for any paper. Not even Wikipedia accepts Wikipedia as a valid citation for anything. That was never its purpose. You can use it as an entry point to your research of a subject.

However, weather we like it or not, hundred of thousands of students every year used Wikipedia for their education. We can either shake our heads and say how awfull, or we can try to do something about the quality and ideological bend of the Wikipedia articles.

Regarding just the Prophet MO thing, then I must have edited out hundreds of these instances on Wikipedia. Just today before I read this, I removed some 20 instances on the Danish Wikipedia.

Here is an interesting one from the page: Talk:Islam and Judaism wiki discussion page about Islam and Judaism (notice the p in prophet is lowercase looks like it was edited but look at the content)

prophet Muhammed

Wasnt one Muhammed's(pbuh) wives Jewish? i beleive he married a jew to establish trust between the 2 communites.Definately should be mentioned in the article as it's one of the first interactions between the 2 religions.-Vmrgrsergr 05:43, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

We cannot include it without a source.--sefringleTalk 05:49, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

irrelevant i don't see the point of mentioning that besides she was forced to marry him that would only decrease the view of muslims in the west when it is already very low--Java7837 04:20, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Dhimmipedia Eh'

Dianna from #147

What, the textbook writers think there were never any slaves except in the New World?

It should shock you, but really it shouldn't. In one of my classes a while back someone chimed in that most African slaves ended up in the US [I was surprised when I discovered that at the end of the Civil War that 97% of the US slave population was native born, and iirc Brazil had the largest slave population]. Modern educationalists have really turned the subject radioactive which is convenient to shield the history of slavery in say Russia or the Ottoman Empire.

I'd like to map out Soros NGO's and see what they have been up to in regards to edits...and the UN might be interesting.

People are really stupid to believe they don't leave any tracks when it comes to computers and online.

Love it..what a great Entry, Charles.

/waves to reuters

re: #146 Right Brain

Wikipedia is an online joke, repeatedly I attempted to post information about the Cirrus Aircraft Company, the maker of the aircraft that flew into a Manhattan apartment building as well as ones killing two dozen other high time pilots--only to see the statement immediately removed: first by the Cirrus Aircraft Co. and then later by a monitor who referred to my 24 years experience as a commercial pilot as "vandalism" and blocked me from posting and more entries.

Wikipedia is a propaganda tool for various companies and groups, there is no contrarian information allowed; they are far far off their mission statement of assembling group information.

Whoa, that would piss me off. I rarely use wikipedia and when I do, it usually is to get the gist of something, now I see that sometimes, that gist isn't worth it because it is tainted from there anyway.

Thank you for putting up the reuter's results, Charles. This one was my favorite.

re: #148 Claudia

Well, Christ does means Messiah or anointed one.

That's why I don't use the term "Christ" as a title or surname. The Jewish position on the Messiah, or Mashiach, is very clear -- he had to succeed at certain specific tasks.

Jews prefer to refer to Jesus by names that reflect the context of the conversation -- e.g. "the historical Jesus" when discussing the product of the world in which he lived, or "Jesus, the Christians' messiah," etc.

Since the teachings of Jesus -- as reflected in the Sermon on the Mount -- appear to be fully in compliance Jewish ideas, he is generally treated with respect, but as an ordinary man who lived and died as a Jew.

Paul, on the other hand, is thoroughly disliked by many Jewish scholars, often intensely. They do not take seriously his status as a rabbi.

Regarding Mohammed, Maimonides simply referred to him as "meshugah" -- the crazy man. And for good reason -- he was forced to convert to Islam by salafist invaders of Spain and fled his native land to avoid living as one.

By the way, I have edited dozens of Wikipedia articles, mainly for grammar.

Articles regarding the Middle East tend to be dominated entirely by Arabists. There are a few exceptions, such as the Grand Mufti, but even attempting to create an article on a subject that Arabs or Muslims don't want to talk about causes a lot of hostility and personal abuse.

one day, i was in a particularly michevious mood and i began editing the topic 'radical lesbian feminism' on wikipedia... they got pretty angry and banned me.

In a brief perusal of the edits from Al-Jazeera, I see that Wikipedia's moderation system works pretty well. Many of these IP numbers get two or three warnings on their user pages, and then get blocked from editing.

-jcr

I've been checking out edits from the BBC IP ranges.

Just scanned through the first 500, looking for "hot topics"; found 3 VERY interesting ones already:

Changed "George Walker Bush" to "George Wanker Bush"

Changed [Palestinian] "terrorists" to "freedom fighters"

Changed "militants" to "some critics"

Anyone wanna help me find some more? ;)

re: #173 Wicksy

I've been checking out edits from the BBC IP ranges.

Just scanned through the first 500, looking for "hot topics"; found 3 VERY interesting ones already:

Changed "George Walker Bush" to "George Wanker Bush"

Changed [Palestinian] "terrorists" to "freedom fighters"

Changed "militants" to "some critics"

Anyone wanna help me find some more? ;)

Good work Wicksy! Not that we needed proof of the BBC's political leanings.

ACLU Wikipedia Edits

Originating IP: 12.42.243.10
Date: 19 APR 2005 (19:29)
Article: Pope Benedict XVI

Added the words, “...such as molesting young boys and degrading women.”

Total Sentence: “Benedict was considered to be Pope John Paul II's "right hand man" and also one of his closest friends, and during the Pope's final illness, he carried out many of the Pope's functions as leader of the Catholic Church, such as molesting young boys and degrading women.”

Way to go ACLU!

According to The Guardian a computer traced to Democrat HQ edited a page on conservative American radio host Rush Limbaugh, calling him "idiotic", "ridiculous" and labeling his 20 million listeners as "legally retarded".

Ahh... the party of "Tolerance"

somebody at the bbc edited the George W. Bush page, changing the W to "wanker"

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

the ip address traces back to the BBC

[Link: whois.dnsstuff.com...]

John Kerry
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Editing of this article by unregistered or newly registered users is currently disabled until September 11, 2007 (UTC) due to vandalism.
If you are prevented from editing this article, and you wish to make a change, please discuss changes on the talk page, request unprotection, log in, or create an account.

Right, I see we've covered that base hey Johhny Swiftboat?

re: #177 buzzdroid

somebody at the bbc edited the George W. Bush page, changing the W to "wanker"

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

the ip address traces back to the BBC

[Link: whois.dnsstuff.com...]

Remembering the days when the BBC had a reputation, a long, long, time ago in a galaxy far away...

Kinda like diggit.