LGF

-RetweetGiuliani's Foreign Policy Statement

Wed, Aug 15, 2007 at 6:16:15 pm PDT

Rudy Giuliani’s pre-election foreign policy statement has been published at Foreign Affairs: Foreign Affairs - Toward a Realistic Peace - Rudolph Giuliani. Big LGF kudos to Rudy for being first out of the gate with a serious, reasoned examination of the important foreign policy issues facing the US.

Here’s the refreshingly realistic section the media are focusing on.

America has a clear interest in helping to establish good governance throughout the world. Democracy is a noble ideal, and promoting it abroad is the right long-term goal of U.S. policy. But democracy cannot be achieved rapidly or sustained unless it is built on sound legal, institutional, and cultural foundations. It can only work if people have a reasonable degree of safety and security. Elections are necessary but not sufficient to establish genuine democracy. Aspiring dictators sometimes win elections, and elected leaders sometimes govern badly and threaten their neighbors. History demonstrates that democracy usually follows good governance, not the reverse. U.S. assistance can do much to set nations on the road to democracy, but we must be realistic about how much we can accomplish alone and how long it will take to achieve lasting progress.

The election of Hamas in the Palestinian-controlled territories is a case in point. The problem there is not the lack of statehood but corrupt and unaccountable governance. The Palestinian people need decent governance first, as a prerequisite for statehood. Too much emphasis has been placed on brokering negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians — negotiations that bring up the same issues again and again. It is not in the interest of the United States, at a time when it is being threatened by Islamist terrorists, to assist the creation of another state that will support terrorism. Palestinian statehood will have to be earned through sustained good governance, a clear commitment to fighting terrorism, and a willingness to live in peace with Israel. America’s commitment to Israel’s security is a permanent feature of our foreign policy.

“Sustained good governance.” What a concept.

There’s a lot more to Giuliani’s essay; read the whole thing.

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1708 comments

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1 me  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:18:09pm

Go Rudy !

2 Cognito  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:18:20pm

I thought it was pretty interesting.

3 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:18:34pm

First thing Rudy has said that I can really like.

Sorry, Rudy supporters. I hope he keeps going, maybe I can be convinced.

OldLineTexan

4 me  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:18:56pm

[Raul Pon]

5 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:19:15pm

Rudy is leaps and bounds ahead of Hillary and Barack "Insane" Obama.

6 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:19:42pm

Rudy is the man.

7 rwilson99  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:20:22pm

Rudy has a good sense of history here. Great comment.

8 inkling  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:20:22pm

I'm a social conservative and a staunch Rudy supporter. He can win it all.

9 Hucbald  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:20:30pm

I'm so not into this campaign yet. It's way to far out. Wake me in 2008 sometime.

10 Miss Trixie  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:20:32pm

Whooohooo!

GO RUDY!

11 jonturner  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:20:57pm

Sustained? Hell, I'd settle for sporadic good governance.

12 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:21:09pm

Rudy rules!

13 Miss Trixie  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:21:44pm

re: #11 jonturner

Sustained? Hell, I'd settle for sporadic good governance.

Hell, I'd settle for a swift kick in the pants! :D

14 Beagle  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:21:46pm

Making the world safe for one man, one vote, one time should never have been the goal.

15 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:21:58pm

Wow...I'm very impressed! He might just sway me away from Ron Paul.

/do I really have to?

16 trailortrash  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:22:50pm

nice

17 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:22:55pm

All kidding aside, I am a social conservative (mostly) and am supporting Rudy. I like him.

18 wordwolf  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:23:09pm

OMG! Do we FINALLY have reason to hope there's one legitimate, electable candidate who hasn't drunk the Kool-Aid of "Palestinian" "victimization" and "despair"? I'd say the swine are airborne!

19 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:23:10pm

While the learned Rudy explains his take on how to establish a solid foundation for democracy, Obama is talking about retreating from Iraq to go invade "nucular" Pakistan. If Obama makes it into the oval office, God help us all.

20 WimbledonWomble  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:23:23pm

If Rudy wins, I'll believe in God again!

21 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:23:41pm

It will be either Rudy or Fred. The two of them will have to duke it out the old fashion way to get the nomination...and the best man will win.

That's the correct way to get the RIGHT nominee!

Over on the other side they're going to just have a coronation of Hillary...that's the way the Left does things.

22 ciaospirit  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:24:35pm

My favorite line:

America’s commitment to Israel’s security is a permanent feature of our foreign policy.

23 peck  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:25:23pm

At least someone is getting serious. Wonder when the dems will join in.

24 june_july  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:25:41pm

re: #21 DesertSage


Over on the other side they're going to just have a coronation of Hillary...that's the way the Left does things.

That's OK. The left also crowned Segolene Royale...

25 NeoKong  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:25:57pm

It is not in the interest of the United States, at a time when it is being threatened by Islamist terrorists, to assist the creation of another state that will support terrorism.

Absolutely.All the politicians on the left want to give the Palestinians a state.They are nothing more than a terror camp right now.Maybe if they could go a whole year without a raging gun battle in the streets or firing rockets over the wall at Israel then we could discuss it.

Don't forget...Good walls make good Palestinians-NeoKong.

26 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:26:27pm

re: #21 DesertSage

I think Fred is an empty suit with no ideas, plans or passion. However he's very electable and charismatic. I'm hoping the primary voters have enough good sense to go with Rudy but I'm not terribly optimistic.

27 Hucbald  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:26:38pm

I was working in Manhattan/Living in Hoboken back in the 80's when Rudy was the DA who muzzled the mob. I've always liked the guy, and thought then he might make a good chief. We'll see.

28 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:26:46pm
29 Miss Trixie  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:26:50pm

re: #18 wordwolf

OMG! Do we FINALLY have reason to hope there's one legitimate, electable candidate who hasn't drunk the Kool-Aid of "Palestinian" "victimization" and "despair"? I'd say the swine are airborne!

Tee hee! :D

re: #18 wordwolf

OMG! Do we FINALLY have reason to hope there's one legitimate, electable candidate who hasn't drunk the Kool-Aid of "Palestinian" "victimization" and "despair"? I'd say the swine are airborne!

I'm gonna talk to the Big Guy tonight. He knows what to do, I tell you what.

:)

30 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:27:10pm

re: #21 DesertSage

It will be either Rudy or Fred. The two of them will have to duke it out the old fashion way to get the nomination...and the best man will win.

That's the correct way to get the RIGHT nominee!

Over on the other side they're going to just have a coronation of Hillary...that's the way the Left does things.

I think it will be Rudy or Romney. Fred's affiliation with the antisemitic Spencer Abraham will do him in. On the other hand, Rudy has the A-Team onboard.

31 Pope Insouciance IV  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:27:44pm

#10

Whooohooo ooo!

GO RUDY!

You just know that Miss Trixie was flashing her goodies when she wrote this.

And that's why I'm supporting Rudy.

32 Roger  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:27:50pm

But there is no BIG OIL beneath Israel!

/

33 me  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:28:09pm

re: #22 ciaospirit

Yes, and that is why the LLLeft says islamists are justified in their attacks on the american hegemon.

A more fair & balanced approach (read: embracing those who'd destroy us) would go a long way toward appeasing our downtrodden muslim brothers.

/gag me with a spoon.

34 justadot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:29:30pm

Rudy is much more of a realist than any of the Realists. And when he mentions reforming the State Department, I can't help but think of John Bolton.

35 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:29:44pm

Here is the question: Should we believe him?

That is not intended to be a slur towards Rudy, but just an honest question. Anyone running for office will always make plenty of policy pronouncements. But... is it really him? (Same can be asked of all candidates.) Or, did a political operative, after having polled key states' populace, determine this is the right thing to be said now to garner the minimum number of delegate votes to get the election.

Same can be asked of every candidate.

I wonder how many people here are aware of the skeletons in Rudy's closet.

Whether it is sanctuary for illegals, gay rights, gun control, or abortion... there are so many possible past positions that I find it hard those who label themselves social conservatives could find Rudy acceptable.

36 Miss Trixie  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:29:46pm

re: #31 Pope Insouciance IV

#10


Whooohooo ooo!

GO RUDY!


You just know that Miss Trixie was flashing her goodies when she wrote this.

And that's why I'm supporting Rudy.

*spew* You caught me by surprise

37 FQ Kafir  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:29:53pm

Hot (Air) Off The Presses

Washington Mosque Embroiled In Scandal

38 Dasher  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:30:52pm

Rudy has shown so much strength in the terrorism front. Both in words and in action. Remember telling some Arab to take there money ($25 mil as I recall) and shove it. Can't remember who it was too.

I am also a social and fiscal conservative but would support Rudy. He is an excellent speaker, and doesn't trip up over trick questions.

I see the GOP race between Rudy G, Fred T, and maybe Huckabee as a long shot.

39 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:31:04pm
For diplomacy to succeed, the U.S. government must be united. Adversaries naturally exploit divisions. Members of Congress who talk directly to rogue regimes at cross-purposes with the White House are not practicing diplomacy; they are undermining it

You hear that, Nancy?

40 Miss Trixie  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:31:06pm

Ack. Split post, dogdangit!

*blush*blush*blush*

:D

41 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:31:44pm

re: #39 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

For diplomacy to succeed, the U.S. government must be united. Adversaries naturally exploit divisions. Members of Congress who talk directly to rogue regimes at cross-purposes with the White House are not practicing diplomacy; they are undermining it

You hear that, Nancy?

It needs to be embroidered on her hijab.

OldLineTexan

42 NeoKong  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:31:44pm

re: #34 justadot

Rudy is much more of a realist than any of the Realists. And when he mentions reforming the State Department, I can't help but think of John Bolton.

I love that guy.I have all his albums.

43 Hucbald  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:32:08pm

re: #33 me

re: #22 ciaospirit

/gag me with a spoon.

Sooo Valley. Circa 1983.

44 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:32:28pm

re: #35 freetoken

Here is the question: Should we believe him?

That is not intended to be a slur towards Rudy, but just an honest question. Anyone running for office will always make plenty of policy pronouncements. But... is it really him? (Same can be asked of all candidates.) Or, did a political operative, after having polled key states' populace, determine this is the right thing to be said now to garner the minimum number of delegate votes to get the election.

Same can be asked of every candidate.

I wonder how many people here are aware of the skeletons in Rudy's closet.

Whether it is sanctuary for illegals, gay rights, gun control, or abortion... there are so many possible past positions that I find it hard those who label themselves social conservatives could find Rudy acceptable.


Well what I've read so far seems very well thought out.

45 Roger  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:33:37pm

#42 NeoKong

Michael, NeoKong. Michael!

/I heard a comedian say he owes Barry Manilow an apology ever since Michael Bolton came along!

46 grumpy old codger  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:33:42pm

re: #37 FQ KafirAnd in this corner wearing the white trunks, the shia Kid. and in the challenger's corner, the sunni Mauler. ten rounds of...

47 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:34:02pm
The time has come to refine the diplomats' mission down to their core purpose: presenting U.S. policy to the rest of the world. Reforming the State Department is a matter not of changing its organizational chart -- although simplification is needed -- but of changing the way we practice diplomacy and the way we measure results. Our ambassadors must clearly understand and clearly advocate for U.S. policies and be judged on the results. Too many people denounce our country or our policies simply because they are confident that they will not hear any serious refutation from our representatives.

Speak it brother!

48 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:34:20pm
A realistic peace is not a peace to be achieved by embracing the "realist" school of foreign policy though

Guess who is a Realist?


Welcome to a Conversation with History. I'm Harry Kreisler of the Institute of International Studies. Our guest today is John J. Mearsheimer, who is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago. He is the author of numerous books, including Conventional Deterrence, Liddell Hart and the Weight of History, and The Tragedy of Great Power Politics.
49 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:34:20pm

re: #35 freetoken

Here is the question: Should we believe him?

...

I wonder how many people here are aware of the skeletons in Rudy's closet.

Whether it is sanctuary for illegals, gay rights, gun control, or abortion... there are so many possible past positions that I find it hard those who label themselves social conservatives could find Rudy acceptable.

To me, fighting Islamic fascism is priority numero uno, and Rudy has a spine of steel for that task. Gay rights, gun control, etc., all of those issues are secondary. No one is going to take away the right to bear arms. If that day comes, it will be civil war part deux. Not gonna happen.

50 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:35:13pm

I told my old man the other night - and this is a family axiom -

"I like Rudy because he scares all the right people."

When the MSM goes after his family right out of the gates, the Kossites shit their pants, the Blame-The-Jews crowd gets noisy, the Arabs start bickering, and the illegals and their apologizers start whining, you know you've got your man.

51 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:35:46pm

Weird- I was just thinking about Rudy.

read the whole thing.

I will. Thanks!

52 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:36:21pm

And another thing

Rudy, if you're reading, my man - please give John Bolton his job back. Put him on your cabinet. Make him Secretary of State.

53 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:36:39pm

re: #49 Milk Toast Intolerant

re: #35 freetoken


Here is the question: Should we believe him?

...

I wonder how many people here are aware of the skeletons in Rudy's closet.

Whether it is sanctuary for illegals, gay rights, gun control, or abortion... there are so many possible past positions that I find it hard those who label themselves social conservatives could find Rudy acceptable.


To me, fighting Islamic fascism is priority numero uno, and Rudy has a spine of steel for that task. Gay rights, gun control, etc., all of those issues are secondary. No one is going to take away the right to bear arms. If that day comes, it will be civil war part deux. Not gonna happen.

Oh, not take it away. Too direct. Just erode it until it falls right off. Goldilocks gun control has been very successful in shaping public perception.

OldLineTexan

54 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:36:46pm

All I'm suggesting is that the GOP has a time honored process to pick a nominee, and that involves the frontrunner's duking it out in the primary season.

This will no doubt involve Rudy and Fred. The best one will survive and go on to be the nominee. I kind of hope it's Rudy because he's my favorite right now and he's very electable. Plus he has administrative experience...something that Hillary doesn't have. And that will be a BIG issue in this election.

55 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:36:55pm

Another reason for CAIR to hate Rudy...
Yahoo Pic


Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani flips pork chops at the Iowa Pork Producers tent while attending the Iowa State Fair in Des Moines
56 obscured by clouds  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:37:17pm

I really do like this guy. He needs to win the nomination, imo.

57 opinionated  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:37:26pm

Everyone knows how Bush/Rice/Olmert are supporting the "good" terrorist Abbas and his Fatah gangs (Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades) against the bad terrorists of Hamas. And that the US and Israel are sending these good terrorists a shit load of money. And that Abbas has been warned and has promised not to join up again with Hamas.

Well, this is sure to surprise Condi- AGAIN.

Abbas to Hamas: 'Return to nat'l unity'

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

58 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:39:17pm
Idealism should define our ultimate goals; realism must help us recognize the road we must travel to achieve them. The world is a dangerous place. We cannot afford to indulge any illusions about the enemies we face. The Terrorists' War on Us was encouraged by unrealistic and inconsistent actions taken in response to terrorist attacks in the past. A realistic peace can only be achieved through strength.

Rudy!

59 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:39:30pm
Finally, we need to look realistically at America's relationship with the United Nations. The organization can be useful for some humanitarian and peacekeeping functions, but we should not expect much more of it. The UN has proved irrelevant to the resolution of almost every major dispute of the last 50 years. Worse, it has failed to combat terrorism and human rights abuses. It has not lived up to the great hopes that inspired its creation. Too often, it has been weak, indecisive, and outright corrupt. The UN's charter and the speeches of its members' leaders have meant little because its members' deeds have frequently fallen short. International law and institutions exist to serve peoples and nations, but many leaders act as if the reverse were true -- that is, as if institutions, not the ends to be achieved, were the important thing.

Despite the UN's flaws, however, the great objectives of humanity would become even more difficult to achieve without mechanisms for international discussion. History has shown that such institutions work best when the United States leads them. Yet we cannot take for granted that they will work forever and must be prepared to look to other tools.

Wow! SOmeone who isn't dancing around in "I don't want to offend someone" land.

60 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:39:53pm

re: #54 DesertSage

Would you mind if for this thread Rudy was the bomb?

61 carefulnow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:41:23pm

Not to throw water on the enthusiasm for him, but how does he plan to pay for his expansion of the military?

62 Kohenan The Barbarian  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:42:15pm

Here lies the policy statement of a true Leader and next President of the USA--any substitute would be capitulation and a clear statement of submission to the Islamist Terrorist threat and more ass kissing of the Saudi Oil Sluts--those rabbid hate filled backward Sandmonkeys who control Gaza and their Iranian genicidal masters deserve to be eradicated forthwith.

63 Opinionated  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:42:19pm

I'm concerned for Giuliani's safety during the campaign.

64 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:42:25pm
The 9/11 generation has learned from the history of the twentieth century that America must not turn a blind eye to gathering storms. We must base our trust on the actions, rather than the words, of others. And we must be on guard against overpromising and underdelivering. Above all, we have learned that evil must be confronted -- not appeased -- because only principled strength can lead to a realistic peace.

Wow, that's almost Reaganesque!

65 NeoKong  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:42:37pm

re: #45 Roger

#42 NeoKong

Michael, NeoKong. Michael!

/I heard a comedian say he owes Barry Manilow an apology ever since Michael Bolton came along!


My bad.

66 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:42:43pm

re: #34 justadot

Did I miss Rudy on the reform of the State Department? Spill, spill!

(John Bolton for SecState has been a dream of mine since he quit the U.N.)

67 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:43:23pm

IF only Rudy's policy on other issues I'm interested in
(guns, abortion, federalism, strict reading of the constitution)
made as much sense as this.

Still, it's MILES ahead of that "air-raiding civilians" nonsense.

68 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:43:31pm

re: #61 carefulnow

I missed the part where he said he was going to expand the military.

69 Catttt  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:44:24pm

re: #50 Pawn of the Oppressor

I told my old man the other night - and this is a family axiom -

"I like Rudy because he scares all the right people."

When the MSM goes after his family right out of the gates, the Kossites shit their pants, the Blame-The-Jews crowd gets noisy, the Arabs start bickering, and the illegals and their apologizers start whining, you know you've got your man.

Heh. Good one.

I like what I'm hearing from Mayor Giuliani. He's got brains and intestinal fortitude, and he's proven it.

70 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:44:28pm
Idealism should define our ultimate goals; realism must help us recognize the road we must travel to achieve them. The world is a dangerous place. We cannot afford to indulge any illusions about the enemies we face. The Terrorists' War on Us was encouraged by unrealistic and inconsistent actions taken in response to terrorist attacks in the past. A realistic peace can only be achieved through strength.

Was that a backhand against Jimmy "The Dhimmi" Carter and Bill "Cigar Man" Clinton?

71 gromster  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:44:29pm

OT

Just found this site. I haven't looked it over yet, but with a name like Militant Islam Monitor, it has to have something going for it.

72 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:44:31pm
Radical Islamic terrorists attacked the World Trade Center in 1993, the Khobar Towers facility in Saudi Arabia in 1996, our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, and the U.S.S. Cole in 2000. In some instances, we responded inadequately. In others, we failed to respond at all.

Hey sandrine! Who was president during all of this?

73 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:44:33pm

re: #66 squarepeg

re: #34 justadot

Did I miss Rudy on the reform of the State Department? Spill, spill!

(John Bolton for SecState has been a dream of mine since he quit the U.N.)

Never mind. I just hit #47.

74 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:44:33pm

re: #49 Milk Toast Intolerant

Agree that both guns and abortion are mostly controlled by the judicial inertia of the US and not by a president... so they aren't (to me) real issues to argue over (wrt to selecting a president.) Changing gun ownership and abortion fundamental laws both will require constitutional changes... and those don't happen very quickly.

Still, I wonder how it can all play out in the Republican masses who go to choose delegates.

In particular on immigration, Rudy's background would suggest he is out of phase with the majority of those who are today most active in republican politics.

Perhaps people like Rudy because he comes of as not a hayseed but rather upscale and sophisticated in a big city way. That is a real change up - haven't had one of those since... JFK?

75 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:44:37pm

re: #66 squarepeg

re: #34 justadot

Did I miss Rudy on the reform of the State Department? Spill, spill!

(John Bolton for SecState has been a dream of mine since he quit the U.N.)

Here ya go...

The time has come to refine the diplomats' mission down to their core purpose: presenting U.S. policy to the rest of the world. Reforming the State Department is a matter not of changing its organizational chart -- although simplification is needed -- but of changing the way we practice diplomacy and the way we measure results. Our ambassadors must clearly understand and clearly advocate for U.S. policies and be judged on the results. Too many people denounce our country or our policies simply because they are confident that they will not hear any serious refutation from our representatives.
76 WindHorse  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:46:00pm

...wow, after reading the full statement... one has to recognize the distinct difference between Rudy and everyone else... He has something to say, and says it.

Compare this to the whining of the Breck Girl... the emptiness of Osama Baram... or the harping of the pant suit...

wow.

77 Catttt  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:46:01pm

re: #75 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

re: #66 squarepeg

re: #34 justadot

Did I miss Rudy on the reform of the State Department? Spill, spill!

(John Bolton for SecState has been a dream of mine since he quit the U.N.)

Here ya go...


The time has come to refine the diplomats' mission down to their core purpose: presenting U.S. policy to the rest of the world. Reforming the State Department is a matter not of changing its organizational chart -- although simplification is needed -- but of changing the way we practice diplomacy and the way we measure results. Our ambassadors must clearly understand and clearly advocate for U.S. policies and be judged on the results. Too many people denounce our country or our policies simply because they are confident that they will not hear any serious refutation from our representatives.

Ooooh - sweet!

78 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:46:06pm

As much as I want to believe that Rudy will follow through on what he's said, the realities are such that the State Department would eviscerate anything that deviates from the longstanding US policy dealing with the Palestinians - give 'em a state at all costs.

79 siiras  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:46:30pm

Same diagnosis and prescription applies to African nations as well. Without sustained good governance, all aid is just down the toilet, (gold-plated toilets of kleptocrat leaders). They have received more money to date than Europe did after World War II and look at the contrasting results.

Tribal cultures are dismal failures in modern times wherever they are located, Natives in North America or Australia, almost all Muslim nations and Africa. Unaccountable tribal leaders just divide the loot among their family and supporters leaving those without connections poverty-stricken, even starving.

This is so obvious but political correctness and colonial guilt has prevented the paying nations from pointing it out. All cultures are not equal. Some cultures need to learn from more successful cultures and need to work harder. They have responsibilities, not just a right to other people's money that they often abuse trying to kill their benefactors...

80 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:46:31pm

re: #76 WindHorse

...wow, after reading the full statement... one has to recognize the distinct difference between Rudy and everyone else... He has something to say, and says it.

Compare this to the whining of the Breck Girl... the emptiness of Osama Baram... or the harping of the pant suit...

wow.

I know...the Breck Girl and Obama are all hat and no cattle.

81 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:47:02pm

re: #77 Cattt

re: #75 The Pulchritudinous Patriot


re: #66 squarepeg

re: #34 justadot

Did I miss Rudy on the reform of the State Department? Spill, spill!

(John Bolton for SecState has been a dream of mine since he quit the U.N.)


Here ya go...


The time has come to refine the diplomats' mission down to their core purpose: presenting U.S. policy to the rest of the world. Reforming the State Department is a matter not of changing its organizational chart -- although simplification is needed -- but of changing the way we practice diplomacy and the way we measure results. Our ambassadors must clearly understand and clearly advocate for U.S. policies and be judged on the results. Too many people denounce our country or our policies simply because they are confident that they will not hear any serious refutation from our representatives.

Ooooh - sweet!


Ain't it? My fave is his words about the UN.

82 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:47:02pm
83 justadot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:47:12pm

re: #52 Pawn of the Oppressor

84 WindHorse  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:47:16pm

re: #78 lawhawk

...maybe time to eviscerate the State Department...?

85 cicero05  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:47:26pm

I really want to like Rudy but that NYC "sanctuary city" crapola keeps drifting back into my consciousness.

Rudy, I'll make you a deal. Commit to appointing John Bolton as your Secretary of State and I'll forget the rest of it and vote for you.

86 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:47:57pm

re: #74 freetoken

re: #49 Milk Toast Intolerant

Agree that both guns and abortion are mostly controlled by the judicial inertia of the US and not by a president... so they aren't (to me) real issues to argue over (wrt to selecting a president.) Changing gun ownership and abortion fundamental laws both will require constitutional changes... and those don't happen very quickly.

Still, I wonder how it can all play out in the Republican masses who go to choose delegates.

In particular on immigration, Rudy's background would suggest he is out of phase with the majority of those who are today most active in republican politics.

Perhaps people like Rudy because he comes of as not a hayseed but rather upscale and sophisticated in a big city way. That is a real change up - haven't had one of those since... JFK?

I missed out on how Bush Sr.'s gun ban, Clinton's attempt to use HUD to go where Congress would not/could not were due to "judicial inertia". But I'm open.

Meanwhile, Rudy's immigration stance leaves me unhappy, as the resident of a "border" state.

OldLineTexan

87 stevieray  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:48:01pm

I'm sure Thanos posted this somewhere, but in case he didn't...

Terrorising English-speaking elite: Terrorists planning hostage-taking at private schools.

LAHORE: The Interior Ministry has directed police to tighten security around English medium schools in the country after intelligence reports showed extremists planning hostage taking at private English medium schools, the BBC reported.

According to a report seen by the BBC, insurgents got this idea from the Beslan School siege in North Ossetia, Russia in which 335 people were killed - most of them children.

88 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:48:11pm

re: #60 Sharmuta

Sharmuta...Rudy is the bomb!

89 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:48:16pm

re: #71 gromster

I believe that's Daniel Pipes' site. Very good.

90 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:48:37pm

re: #82 taxfreekiller

Talk and position papers, can be had at the local bar at 2:00 am.

Follow up is all that counts.
Facts mean something.
Co-op ing others positions is not leading, its following.


I agree, but Rudy has a record of following through on what he says...just ask those mob bosses currently residing in the pokey.

91 carefulnow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:48:42pm

re: #68 Killgore Trout
It's on the third page:

The U.S. Army needs a minimum of ten new combat brigades. It may need more, but this is an appropriate baseline increase while we reevaluate our strategies and resources. We must also take a hard look at other requirements, especially in terms of submarines, modern long-range bombers, and in-flight refueling tankers. Rebuilding will not be cheap, but it is necessary. And the benefits will outweigh the costs.


I don't disagree with his assessment, I just wonder how much taxes will be raised.

92 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:48:57pm
93 WindHorse  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:49:39pm

re: #82 taxfreekiller

I agree... and I would choose Tancredo over Rudy in a heart beat... BUT, it is nice to see this coverage...

94 vittoriosa  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:49:48pm

Rudy is definitely my pick. I'll look forward to reading the whole article when I get my FA. Edward's companion article in the issue should be worth a few hundred laughs as well.

...I really hope conservatives can bury the hatchet this cycle and get behind the nominee so we don't get a D(em)isaster in '08.

95 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:49:51pm

re: #82 taxfreekiller

Talk and position papers, can be had at the local bar at 2:00 am.

Follow up is all that counts.
Facts mean something.
Co-op ing others positions is not leading, its following.

But at least it was put out as a position. There is nothing wrong with cooping other's positions. We do this every day. It is called agreement.

96 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:50:16pm

I would hope that restructuring of the State Department and CIA are high on anyone's list of policy fixes.

Well, on the adult side of the aisle anyway.

97 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:50:30pm

re: #78 lawhawk

There seems to be a common misconception among Lizards that the Dept. o' State is it's own entity. They operate under orders from the executive and they do what they're told.

98 Bobibutu  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:50:59pm

re: #61 carefulnow

Not to throw water on the enthusiasm for him, but how does he plan to pay for his expansion of the military?

Earmarks?

/s

99 mollyshark  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:51:14pm

re: #45 Roger

#42 NeoKong

Michael, NeoKong. Michael!

/I heard a comedian say he owes Barry Manilow an apology ever since Michael Bolton came along!

Now wait a minute. Our Mandy might have warm feelings towards Manilow!

100 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:51:23pm
Whom we choose to talk to is as important as what we say.

Rudy!

101 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:51:29pm

I think Rudy's "conservative weaknesses" (IE messy personal life) may actually help him this election.

102 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:51:35pm

Well, I'm off to bed. I'm tired.

Ya'll all sleep well and safe.

103 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:51:55pm

re: #75 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Thank you, my dear.

104 MandyManners  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:52:04pm

RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!

105 grumpy old codger  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:52:08pm

re: #91 carefulnow

It will be very expensive. 1 brigade equals about 3,500 men. lots of bucks there. not to mention submarines, etc.. Certainly will be expensive. freedom has never been cheap, but will the US stand up and pay the price? Or will we hear the dhimmicrat chorus of "Can't we all get along?".

106 lowandslow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:52:13pm

Seven pages, I only got one cigarette left. I'm going to have to get another pack before I sit down and read this.

107 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:52:14pm

re: #102 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Well, I'm off to bed. I'm tired.

Ya'll all sleep well and safe.

I'll keep an eye out for that rain. Not much yet.

OldLineTexan

108 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:52:21pm

re: #91 carefulnow

Thanks for finding that. It doesn't sound unrealistic but yes, that money is going to have to come from somewhere.

109 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:53:06pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

There seems to be a common misconception among Lizards that the Dept. o' State is it's own entity. They operate under orders from the executive and they do what they're told.

Well, in theory.
In practice, a lot of anti-administration leaks come out of State that hamstring many conservative initiatives.

110 Catttt  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:53:33pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

re: #78 lawhawk

There seems to be a common misconception among Lizards that the Dept. o' State is it's own entity. They operate under orders from the executive and they do what they're told.

...especially when you take them by the ear and show them the woodshed. :) (Metaphorically speaking.)

111 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:53:35pm

re: #101 experiencedtraveller

I think Rudy's "conservative weaknesses" (IE messy personal life) may actually help him this election.

If he can get the moral majority out. However, the proper amount of contrition on his part as regards his mistakes, might get them to the polls.

112 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:53:43pm
Members of Congress who talk directly to rogue regimes at cross-purposes with the White House are not practicing diplomacy; they are undermining it.

BOOYAH! Take that, Speaker hijab.

113 Julie  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:53:46pm

John Bolton as Secretary of State...I'm swooning. Quick, name some more real men to fill the Fantasy Cabinet; we need brass at Defense, CIA,FBI, ICE and everywhere else the Muslim hordes are dangerous. (OK, I'll accept Michelle Malkin at ICE; she's got more brass on this than just about anyone.)

114 Catttt  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:53:46pm

re: #104 MandyManners

RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!

I knew that was you. :)

115 Opinionated  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:54:02pm

re: #85 cicero05

I really want to like Rudy but that NYC "sanctuary city" crapola keeps drifting back into my consciousness.

Rudy, I'll make you a deal. Commit to appointing John Bolton as your Secretary of State and I'll forget the rest of it and vote for you.

The "sanctuary" was originated by Ed Koch. There was nothing Giuliani could responsibly do as Mayor of NYC not to continue the policy. If the Federal Government fails to control the borders, and illegals are present in a large a city as NY, they must have the ability to avail themselves of law enforcement and health services without fear of being reported to the IRS- or the health and safety of all the citizens of NYC would have been in jeopardy.

116 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:54:02pm

re: #103 squarepeg

re: #75 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Thank you, my dear.

No prob.

117 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:54:15pm

This is what I love about conservative politics. In the GOP they have grueling debates and the candidates go through an arduous process to secure the party nomination.

In Leftist politics...they just coronate Hillary and call it a day.

118 wee fury  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:54:41pm

Just finished reading the entire Essay. I am impressed.

119 jcm  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:54:41pm

re: #104 MandyManners

RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!
RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY! RUDY!

You've got to get that sticking keyboard fixed.

120 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:54:42pm

re: #107 OldLineTexan

re: #102 The Pulchritudinous Patriot


Well, I'm off to bed. I'm tired.

Ya'll all sleep well and safe.


I'll keep an eye out for that rain. Not much yet.

OldLineTexan


None here either...I'm in NW Houston, where are you?

121 NavyBrat  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:54:49pm

Well said RUDY.

122 screaming_eagle  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:55:00pm

re: #91 carefulnow

Just do a real cut of medicare/medicaid of 2% and it would more than cover it.

123 Opinionated  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:55:11pm

re: #115 Opinionated

That should be INS

124 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:55:25pm

re: #109 mondoreb

Leaks are a problem in all branches but policy comes from the top. I can't think of a single case where the State Dept. refused to do what they're told.

125 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:55:49pm
And the era of cost-free anti-Americanism must end.

Amen.

126 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:55:51pm

re: #122 screaming_eagle

re: #91 carefulnow

Just do a real cut of medicare/medicaid of 2% and it would more than cover it.


A nice hefty fee on money wires to Mexico would also add to the coffers quite generously.

127 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:55:55pm

re: #115 Opinionated

re: #85 cicero05


I really want to like Rudy but that NYC "sanctuary city" crapola keeps drifting back into my consciousness.

Rudy, I'll make you a deal. Commit to appointing John Bolton as your Secretary of State and I'll forget the rest of it and vote for you.


The "sanctuary" was originated by Ed Koch. There was nothing Giuliani could responsibly do as Mayor of NYC not to continue the policy. If the Federal Government fails to control the borders, and illegals are present in a large a city as NY, they must have the ability to avail themselves of law enforcement and health services without fear of being reported to the IRS- or the health and safety of all the citizens of NYC would have been in jeopardy.

Why does reporting a criminal to the authorities jeopardize others? Just a question, as I have my very own "sanctuary city" (Houston) to deal with and mean no criticism.

OldLineTexan

128 carefulnow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:56:14pm

re: #122 screaming_eagle
Unrealistic. America is graying and medicare will need to expand.

129 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:56:17pm

re: #86 OldLineTexan

I missed out on how Bush Sr.'s gun ban, Clinton's attempt to use HUD to go where Congress would not/could not were due to "judicial inertia". But I'm open.


OldLineTexan

Did either of those efforts in the end amount to much? More importantly, do even small efforts get anywhere once the courts step in?

130 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:56:32pm

re: #115 Opinionated

The "sanctuary" was originated by Ed Koch. There was nothing Giuliani could responsibly do as Mayor of NYC not to continue the policy. If the Federal Government fails to control the borders, and illegals are present in a large a city as NY, they must have the ability to avail themselves of law enforcement and health services without fear of being reported to the IRS- or the health and safety of all the citizens of NYC would have been in jeopardy.

Huh?

So he's gonna bullrush the State Department, but he couldn't handle immigrants in his city?

Walk me through that with a few links about the safety of all NYC citizens. Other city mayors seem to be doing just exactly that.

131 Catttt  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:56:33pm

re: #117 DesertSage

This is what I love about conservative politics. In the GOP they have grueling debates and the candidates go through an arduous process to secure the party nomination.

In Leftist politics...they just coronate Hillary and call it a day.

I still can't find an unairbrushed picture of Senator Clinton's cleaveage. Humpf.

/

132 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:56:45pm

re: #120 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

re: #107 OldLineTexan


re: #102 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Well, I'm off to bed. I'm tired.
Ya'll all sleep well and safe.

I'll keep an eye out for that rain. Not much yet.
OldLineTexan

None here either...I'm in NW Houston, where are you?

Southernmost edge of good old Tomball, so basically the same.

OldLineTexan

133 carefulnow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:56:55pm

re: #126 The Pulchritudinous Patriot
Great idea!
Go to bed, hump day girl. LOL

134 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:57:20pm

re: #127 OldLineTexan

re: #115 Opinionated


re: #85 cicero05

I really want to like Rudy but that NYC "sanctuary city" crapola keeps drifting back into my consciousness.
Rudy, I'll make you a deal. Commit to appointing John Bolton as your Secretary of State and I'll forget the rest of it and vote for you.

The "sanctuary" was originated by Ed Koch. There was nothing Giuliani could responsibly do as Mayor of NYC not to continue the policy. If the Federal Government fails to control the borders, and illegals are present in a large a city as NY, they must have the ability to avail themselves of law enforcement and health services without fear of being reported to the IRS- or the health and safety of all the citizens of NYC would have been in jeopardy.

Why does reporting a criminal to the authorities jeopardize others? Just a question, as I have my very own "sanctuary city" (Houston) to deal with and mean no criticism.

OldLineTexan


Hear Hear! Some areas of town can be mistaken for Tiajuana

135 jcm  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:57:32pm

Right now I support Duncan Hunter.
I want to the Republicans to know they have drifted to far from the Reagan ideal.

Come the general, and I expect the ticket to be Rudy or Fred, or both. I have no problem voting the ticket.

136 grumpy old codger  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:57:46pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

I refer you to the story of LBJ and the implementation of the Great society. LBJ was frustrated by the slow progress of the programs. an observer asked LBJ why he just didn't fire the person who was sidetracking these prgrams. LBJ, in a rage, said "Fire him, I can't even fin the SOB."

137 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:57:56pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

Leaks are a problem in all branches but policy comes from the top. I can't think of a single case where the State Dept. refused to do what they're told.

Right you are about the flow chart.
See #130.

138 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:58:06pm

re: #129 freetoken

re: #86 OldLineTexan

I missed out on how Bush Sr.'s gun ban, Clinton's attempt to use HUD to go where Congress would not/could not were due to "judicial inertia". But I'm open.


OldLineTexan

Did either of those efforts in the end amount to much? More importantly, do even small efforts get anywhere once the courts step in?

The HUD agreement is still in effect, waiting for a willing administration. Government by fiat; not good.

Bush Sr.'s gun ban was just another step on the road.

OldLineTexan

139 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:58:15pm

re: #132 OldLineTexan

re: #120 The Pulchritudinous Patriot


re: #107 OldLineTexan

re: #102 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Well, I'm off to bed. I'm tired.
Ya'll all sleep well and safe.

I'll keep an eye out for that rain. Not much yet.
OldLineTexan

None here either...I'm in NW Houston, where are you?

Southernmost edge of good old Tomball, so basically the same.

OldLineTexan

No way! Me too!

140 grumpy old codger  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:58:48pm

Buenas noches, Todos!

141 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:59:28pm

Just remember that when it comes down to Rudy vs. Hillary, only one of them has held an administrative office.

142 Thanos  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:59:31pm

re: #9 Hucbald

I'm so not into this campaign yet. It's way to far out. Wake me in 2008 sometime.

With the primaries pulled forward into January, you better wake up before that. It's sad, but you can see that some are going to have to campaign through Christmas with all the lunacy of moving the dates forward. Fred says he'll get in by September, but that's probably going to be too late.

143 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 6:59:43pm

re: #135 jcm

Right now I support Duncan Hunter.
I want to the Republicans to know they have drifted to far from the Reagan ideal.

Come the general, and I expect the ticket to be Rudy or Fred, or both. I have no problem voting the ticket.

Well, there's two of us.

OldLineTexan

144 cicero05  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:00:36pm

re: #115 Opinionated

re: #85 cicero05


I really want to like Rudy but that NYC "sanctuary city" crapola keeps drifting back into my consciousness.

Rudy, I'll make you a deal. Commit to appointing John Bolton as your Secretary of State and I'll forget the rest of it and vote for you.


The "sanctuary" was originated by Ed Koch. There was nothing Giuliani could responsibly do as Mayor of NYC not to continue the policy. If the Federal Government fails to control the borders, and illegals are present in a large a city as NY, they must have the ability to avail themselves of law enforcement and health services without fear of being reported to the IRS- or the health and safety of all the citizens of NYC would have been in jeopardy.

My recollection is a bit fuzzy but didn't Rudy aggressively support the "sanctuary city" status when he sued the US government? He wanted to enjoin it from enforcing some kind of funding restriction on cities that declared themselves as illegal immigrant havens.

That doesn't sound like he was just being dragged along by what a predecessor did.

145 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:00:53pm

re: #139 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

re: #132 OldLineTexan


re: #120 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

re: #107 OldLineTexan

re: #102 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Well, I'm off to bed. I'm tired.
Ya'll all sleep well and safe.

I'll keep an eye out for that rain. Not much yet.
OldLineTexan

None here either...I'm in NW Houston, where are you?

Southernmost edge of good old Tomball, so basically the same.
OldLineTexan

No way! Me too!

Well, I'd say El Palenque for drinks, but as a married man I am not allowed any association with outside pulchritudinous-ish gals. ;)

OldLineTexan

146 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:01:00pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

The State Department is supposed to operate that way, but as we've repeatedly seen, they seem to have a mind of their own - there are a lot of career State Department types and bureaucratic inertia doesn't like when their plans are upset by someone who will come and go - like a President. The situation gets muddied when the President's own advisers decide to simply carry on with the existing policies since that's easier than trying to do something different.

The political appointees are supposed to answer to the President and serve at his will, but as we've seen with President Bush, the harsh realities at State will upend seemingly clear statements on how to deal with terrorist regimes - like the PA.

147 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:01:10pm
Ultimately, the most important thing we can do to help Africa is to increase trade with the continent. U.S. government aid is important, but aid not linked to reform perpetuates bad policies and poverty. It is better to give people a hand up than a handout.

Awesome, Rudy.

/Electrify Africa!

148 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:02:01pm

re: #146 lawhawk

This is an assessment with which I can heartily agree.

149 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:02:31pm

re: #117 DesertSage

This is what I love about conservative politics. In the GOP they have grueling debates and the candidates go through an arduous process to secure the party nomination.

In Leftist politics...they just coronate Hillary and call it a day.

Like the students who cheat on tests?

150 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:02:42pm
The UN has proved irrelevant to the resolution of almost every major dispute of the last 50 years. Worse, it has failed to combat terrorism and human rights abuses. It has not lived up to the great hopes that inspired its creation. Too often, it has been weak, indecisive, and outright corrupt. The UN's charter and the speeches of its members' leaders have meant little because its members' deeds have frequently fallen short.

Rudy!

151 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:02:44pm
152 easy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:02:50pm

A Performance-Based Roadmap to a Permanent Two-State Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

At the outset of Phase I:
Palestinian leadership issues unequivocal statement reiterating Israel’s right to exist in peace and security and calling for an immediate and unconditional ceasefire to end armed activity and all acts of violence against Israelis anywhere. All official Palestinian institutions end incitement against Israel


It all sounds vaguely familiar.

153 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:03:34pm

re: #145 OldLineTexan

re: #139 The Pulchritudinous Patriot


re: #132 OldLineTexan

re: #120 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

re: #107 OldLineTexan

re: #102 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Well, I'm off to bed. I'm tired.
Ya'll all sleep well and safe.

I'll keep an eye out for that rain. Not much yet.
OldLineTexan

None here either...I'm in NW Houston, where are you?

Southernmost edge of good old Tomball, so basically the same.
OldLineTexan

No way! Me too!

Well, I'd say El Palenque for drinks, but as a married man I am not allowed any association with outside pulchritudinous-ish gals. ;)

OldLineTexan


Shoot, bring the charmin wife along! I could use a few friends being new in town and all. (by new I mean I've only been here since 98)

154 Opinionated  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:03:43pm

re: #130 mondoreb

re: #115 Opinionated

The "sanctuary" was originated by Ed Koch. There was nothing Giuliani could responsibly do as Mayor of NYC not to continue the policy. If the Federal Government fails to control the borders, and illegals are present in a large a city as NY, they must have the ability to avail themselves of law enforcement and health services without fear of being reported to the IRS- or the health and safety of all the citizens of NYC would have been in jeopardy.
Huh?

So he's gonna bullrush the State Department, but he couldn't handle immigrants in his city?

Walk me through that with a few links about the safety of all NYC citizens. Other city mayors seem to be doing just exactly that.

Ok. An illegal has TB but is afraid to go to the hospital.

Illegals are afraid to report to the police that they are being criminally preyed upon in their neighborhoods.

Do you believe the epidemic and crimes will remain only among the illegals?

It was not within Giuliani's powers to keep them from coming to NYC, but once there, they had to be dealt with rationally.

If he is President and it is within his power to keep them out of the US, I believe we will see a real, not made up, "Giuliani Time" (without plungers).

155 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:04:00pm

re: #127 OldLineTexan

I'll give you four reasons.

156 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:04:02pm

re: #150 Sharmuta

The UN has proved irrelevant to the resolution of almost every major dispute of the last 50 years. Worse, it has failed to combat terrorism and human rights abuses. It has not lived up to the great hopes that inspired its creation. Too often, it has been weak, indecisive, and outright corrupt. The UN's charter and the speeches of its members' leaders have meant little because its members' deeds have frequently fallen short.

Rudy!

Hey, the UN is very relevant to the dispute in Korea, which ended in a draw, no treaty, troops still on the borders, and the constant threat of more trouble.

Sounds just like a UN job to me.

OldLineTexan

157 screaming_eagle  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:04:29pm

re: #128 carefulnow

No it's not unrealistic. It's unpopular. The 50+ has alot of voting power. It's not gonna happen because millions of Americans think the Feds OWE it to them.

158 pat  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:04:53pm
It is not in the interest of the United States, at a time when it is being threatened by Islamist terrorists, to assist the creation of another state that will support terrorism.

KOSOVO

159 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:05:28pm

re: #153 The Pulchritudinous Patriot


Shoot, bring the charmin wife along! I could use a few friends being new in town and all. (by new I mean I've only been here since 98)

You're on.

OldLineTexan

160 WeaselZipper  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:05:36pm

Rudy seems to be the polar opposite of these dhimmwits

Hamas Rejoices at European Appeasement...

The Palestinian Arab terrorist organization Hamas has expressed satisfaction with recent calls by European politicians to open dialogue with it despite its vitriolic hatred of, and commitment to destroying, Israel.

161 NeoKong  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:05:49pm

I could certainly vote for Rudy but I'm waiting for Newt to throw his hat in the ring.We have plenty of time.Romney is an empty suit.I like the guy but not for President when I could have Newt or Rudy.
I think the best thing about a Guilliani nomination would be that he could deliver New York and Florida.The last Republican to win New York was Reagan.If Hillary loses New York then she's all done.
She never would have became a Senator if Rudy hadn't dropped out of the Senate race.She has never really had an opponent before.

162 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:06:02pm

Now, I'm really off to bed.

Must work tomorrow.

OldLine Texan, grop me an email anytime. I'd love to meet you and the wife. (Got any single sons? lol)

Next time I'm on, I'll light up the football.

163 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:06:26pm

re: #152 easy

It's always SO hard to get that first point on the Roadmaps out of the way. People taught and drilled from birth to the destruction of the Zionist entity are NEVER gonna swallow their right to exist.

164 Geepers  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:06:30pm

Sharmuta (#72, 100,112, 125, 147, 150),

Thanks for printing out the good bits.

I like the tone he's setting.

165 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:06:37pm

re: #162 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Now, I'm really off to bed.

Must work tomorrow.

OldLine Texan, grop me an email anytime. I'd love to meet you and the wife. (Got any single sons? lol)

Next time I'm on, I'll light up the football.

PIMF I meant DROP me an email! Doh!

166 neocon hippie  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:06:37pm

Go, Go Rudy Go
Go, Rudy B Goode

167 ted  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:06:59pm

Brilliant !*

*Registered member of the "ElectGuiliani" campaign" since 2006>

168 Opinionated  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:07:12pm

re: #144 cicero05

No haven was declared. It's all exaggerated.

There was a policy instituted by Koch, continued by Dinkins, and then Giuliani, that Illegals can interact with law enforcement and health care- and children were educated under a sort of don't ask don't tell policy- without fear that that interaction- and only that interaction- would be reported to the INS.

169 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:07:17pm

re: #19 Milk Toast Intolerant

If Obama makes it into the oval office, God help us all.

No need to worry about that. The only way Obama is going to get onto the White House grounds is if he's called in to clean the pool.

170 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:07:33pm

re: #155 lawhawk

re: #127 OldLineTexan

I'll give you four reasons.

OK, I'm confused or slow.

So if these MS-13 crims had been caught as illegals at a hospital or in a traffic stop, and deported, *more* murders would result than if they were given "sanctuary"?

OldLineTexan

171 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:07:36pm

re: #146 lawhawk

For example?

172 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:08:19pm

re: #162 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Now, I'm really off to bed.

Must work tomorrow.

OldLine Texan, grop me an email anytime. I'd love to meet you and the wife. (Got any single sons? lol)

Next time I'm on, I'll light up the football.

Ha, he's seven...not allowed to date yet. ;)

OldLineTexan

173 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:08:26pm

Rudy will definitely bake some purple states red.

...and make some Lefty faces red also!

174 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:08:51pm
I know from personal experience that when security is reliably established in a troubled part of a city, normal life rapidly reestablishes itself: shops open, people move back in, children start playing ball on the sidewalks again, and soon a decent and law-abiding community returns to life. The same is true in world affairs. Disorder in the world's bad neighborhoods tends to spread. Tolerating bad behavior breeds more bad behavior. But concerted action to uphold international standards will help peoples, economies, and states to thrive. Civil society can triumph over chaos if it is backed by determined action.

Diplomacy is a bit like dealing with children.

175 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:08:52pm

re: #172 OldLineTexan

re: #162 The Pulchritudinous Patriot


Now, I'm really off to bed.

Must work tomorrow.

OldLine Texan, grop me an email anytime. I'd love to meet you and the wife. (Got any single sons? lol)

Next time I'm on, I'll light up the football.


Ha, he's seven...not allowed to date yet. ;)

OldLineTexan

My daughter is seven...neither is she.

176 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:09:00pm

Alright, enough glad handed back slapping.

/bring out the trolls

177 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:09:30pm

re: #164 Geepers

My pleasure.

178 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:09:35pm

re: #173 DesertSage

Rudy will definitely bake some purple states red.

...and make some Lefty faces red also!


Can you just hear the sound of heads exploding over at KKKos as they read this?

179 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:09:41pm

re: #91 carefulnow

I don't disagree with his assessment, I just wonder how much taxes will be raised.

careful,

I haven't read all the succeeding comments yet, but here's my $.02: Rudy has argued in the past that tax cuts can increase revenues. That doesn't explain exactly where all the dough will come from, but it's a theoretical start.

180 carefulnow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:09:42pm

re: #157 screaming_eagle Exactly so. Unrealisitc or unpopular--it ain't gonna happen.
I think Rudy is going to raise taxes. Bigtime.

181 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:09:52pm
182 ted  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:10:32pm

re: #35 freetoken


"I wonder how many people here are aware of the skeletons in Rudy's Hillarys closet storage facility.

Fixed.

183 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:10:38pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout

One example of State's duplicity is the Armitage leak of Valerie Plame.
And then Colin Powell's silence in the ensuing furor.

I'm working on others as we type.

184 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:10:39pm

re: #181 song_and_dance_man

For what its worth, I'm a son and single.


Awww...you're cute.

Now, I am really off to bed.

185 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:11:03pm
Above all, we have learned that evil must be confronted -- not appeased -- because only principled strength can lead to a realistic peace.

I fear not enough have learned that, Mr. Mayor.

Great read, Sir. Thank you.

186 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:11:05pm

re: #181 song_and_dance_man

For what its worth, I'm a son and single.

LOL.

OldLineTexan

187 carefulnow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:11:07pm

re: #169 hiker
What a thing to say!

188 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:11:19pm

re: #35 freetoken


If he is the nominee and Hillarhea is on the ticket for the Dhimms people will be knocking each other over to get to the polls to vote for him.

189 jcm  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:12:03pm

re: #157 screaming_eagle

re: #128 carefulnow

No it's not unrealistic. It's unpopular. The 50+ has alot of voting power. It's not gonna happen because millions of Americans think the Feds OWE it to them.

I have to find the story again.

But if you invested $1000.00 with Warren Buffett in 1957, today you'd have...

$27,000,000.

Cut a little back and assume a worker starts in '65 at 25 and retired in '05 after forty years.
Where would you rather have your money
With Berkshire Hathaway or Social Security?

Yeah the Feds owe me, a whole lot of money for mismanaging the ponzi scheme called social security.

190 Yankee Division Son  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:12:21pm

Compare and contrast Rudy's statement to recent 'proclimations' by Obama, and it makes me think of a debate...

Between Winston Churchill and Ken Kesey.

191 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:12:25pm

re: #187 carefulnow


What else is he qualified for?

192 jwbaumann  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:12:30pm

That attitude might have saved Rhodesia from the horrible fate known as Zimbabwe.

193 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:12:37pm
194 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:12:41pm

re: #113 Julie

John Bolton as Secretary of State...I'm swooning. Quick, name some more real men to fill the Fantasy Cabinet

McCain for SecDef.

195 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:13:14pm

Here's another from 1945.

Two days after the arrests, Under Secretary of State Joseph C. Grew and FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover told a little of what it was all about. For some time, they said, documents labeled "restricted" and "top secret" had been disappearing from the State Department and other Government agencies—War, Navy, OWI, the Federal Communications Commission, and the supersecret Office of Strategic Services. Material from some of the documents had appeared in Amerasia (which had used one OSS report verbatim) and in Free-Lance Gayn's articles in Col lier's and the Saturday Evening Post. Some of the documents, said J. Edgar Hoover, had been found in the possession of those arrested.

196 carefulnow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:13:56pm

re: #191 hiker
Nicorette gum spokesman?

197 pat  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:14:52pm

I must admit, while I am appalled at his cavalier attitude towards guns and self-defense, I like his quickness of mind and ability to discern evil without prevarication. He talks like you want a politician to talk.

198 YozhikVTumane  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:15:14pm

I just hope he ain't gonna turn into a "compassionate conservative" and start voting for every pork-laden "earmark" domestically all the while searching for a "roadmap to peace" internationally

199 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:15:19pm

Has anyone democratic candidates published an essay like this in a major newspaper, so we can get a glimpse of their grasp on the issues?

200 screaming_eagle  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:15:19pm

re: #180 carefulnow

NO
Rudy will not rasise taxes. He knows that only decreases revanues.

201 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:15:35pm

re: #196 carefulnow


Gee, I never thought of that. :)

202 phillygirl  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:16:01pm

Agree with Milk Toast Intolerant . I don't care how many wives Rudy has had. He is a tough cookie who is not afraid to confront Islamo-Fascists and bleeding heart liberals.

Bill Clinton was only "married" once, but he has had MANY affairs. (Hillary probably has, too...) Since Bill and Hill get passes from NOW and the Democrats, Rudy deserves a bigger pass. Clinton tried to pretend we weren't attacked (U.S.S. Cole, Marine Barracks, Embassy bombings, et. al.)
He figured it would all go away. Rudy got rid of the domestic terrorists in the streets of New York (squeegee guys, homeless, criminals), and will continue to confront Islamo-Fascist terror. He doesn't quibble - he states what he believes. No hidden agendas. No lies. And NO FINGER POINTING, either.

203 pat  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:18:15pm

re: #194 squarepeg

re: #113 Julie

John Bolton as Secretary of State...I'm swooning. Quick, name some more real men to fill the Fantasy Cabinet

McCain for SecDef.

Tancredo in charge of ICE, Thomas Sowell in charge of Dept of Education, Laura Ingram, White House Spokesperson. And yes i know those are not all cabinet positions

204 screaming_eagle  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:18:37pm

re: #189 jcm

Social Security is not invested, it goes into the general fund.

205 Cicero05  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:18:44pm

re: #194 squarepeg

re: #113 Julie


John Bolton as Secretary of State...I'm swooning. Quick, name some more real men to fill the Fantasy Cabinet

McCain for SecDef.

Obama for Secretary of Defense!

206 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:19:22pm

re: #202 phillygirl

Uh, the Marine barracks came in 1983 (in Lebanon) during Reagan's watch. Khobar Towers, though, was during the Toon's administration. As were the embassy bombings.

207 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:19:23pm

re: #205 Cicero05

re: #194 squarepeg


re: #113 Julie

John Bolton as Secretary of State...I'm swooning. Quick, name some more real men to fill the Fantasy Cabinet

McCain for SecDef.

Obama for Secretary of Defense!

Gonna need more nukes.

OldLineTexan

208 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:20:00pm

This has probably been pointed out already, but Edwards had a companion piece in the same magazine. It's great fun to compare/contrast the two of them...(Edwards is an idiot, but that goes without saying. Just sayin'.)

209 carefulnow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:20:38pm

re: #200 screaming_eagle
Do you think it's reasonable to assume that he will actually cut taxes AND move forward with expanding the military and implementing his ballistic missile system? I worry that this position paper is words without substance. Words we like to hear, no doubt, but not backed up with action. My take on it. I respect that others may disagree with me.

210 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:20:49pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout

And one more...this time about Korean policy
[Link: www.nautilus.org...]


All that being said, I'll stand by Rudy, as per the comments in #67 and #96.

Not much to dislike in this policy paper.

211 Cicero05  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:21:00pm

Ann Coulter as re: #208 Malatrope

This has probably been pointed out already, but Edwards had a companion piece in the same magazine. It's great fun to compare/contrast the two of them...(Edwards is an idiot, but that goes without saying. Just sayin'.)

Edwards is an idiot? When did this happen?

212 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:21:12pm

re: #208 Malatrope

Edwards has as much chance of becoming president as my big toe.

213 Sir Lurksalot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:21:17pm

He had my vote as soon as he told that Saudi toad to stick his post 9/11 $10 million donation (with anti-Israel lecture included) where the sun don't shine.

214 stuck in california  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:21:30pm

Sorry, McCain for retirement.

215 madmama  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:21:53pm

For all of you who are concerned with Rudy's past in regard to N.Y.C. being a sanctuary city...
All I can say is..people change, circumstances change, times change.
Heck, before Sept. 11th and my two children, I was a liberal Dem who even protested in downtown West Palm Beach for AL GORE! during the hanging chad debacle.
I know Rudy has enough intelligence to realize that the way it was before is not going to work now.
He, of all people, knows firsthand how things can change.
I feel very strongly that there is some kind of cosmic law which is guiding Rudy to be the president that we NEED in this desperate hour.
Sept. 11th may have been the defining moment when Rudy realized that he must serve the American people. He's a true leader.
I hope the American people are wise enough to put their support behind the only person who has the backbone, stamina, and determination to lead us through these difficult times.

216 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:21:55pm

re: #209 carefulnow

Do you think it's reasonable to assume that he will actually cut taxes AND move forward with expanding the military

Reagan did.

217 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:22:36pm

The race to the White House is like choosing teams for a tag ball game, and Rudy's got all the fast [thinking] players while Fred's already got one fat kid on his team. I really liked Fred at one time, but after he selected Spencer Abraham, my enthusiasm for him dwindled quite a bit. But fortunately for us kaffirs, we still have Duncan Hunter, Tom Tancredo, Romney, Rudy, Sam Brownback; all of which would make a better candidate than the skittish Democratic candidates.

218 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:22:40pm

re: #214 stuck in california

No kidding.

219 panamahat  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:22:59pm

#87 Stevieray

Would you mind checking that link? Can't find it.

Re: Rudy

WAY TO GO!

220 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:23:19pm

re: #211 Cicero05

Ann Coulter as re: #208 Malatrope

This has probably been pointed out already, but Edwards had a companion piece in the same magazine. It's great fun to compare/contrast the two of them...(Edwards is an idiot, but that goes without saying. Just sayin'.)
Edwards is an idiot? When did this happen?


Oh, I dunno. Probably about the time he was born.

221 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:23:28pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout

As noted above, Richard Armitage.

Condi Rice has supposed to follow the Bush doctrine, and yet she's paid visits to the PA and extended the olive branch to Abbas, as though the PA and Fatah are separate and distinct from the Hamas thugs that are also part of the PA and both seek Israel's destruction. We've repeatedly argued here at LGF that Hamas and Fatah are a distinction without a difference as their goals are identical - their methods and timeframes are all that differs (short term vs. long term, and overt war/terrorism v. 1000s of papercuts).

Look, I know the world isn't all black and white and there are shades of grey, but there are some things that are clearcut - good and evil. Dealing with terrorist regimes - evil defined - undermines US efforts.

Realpolitik - especially as practiced by the ISG and Baker boys is what I've repeatedly called pseudorealism because it bears little resemblance to reality because the assumptions are bass-ackward and not on the facts on the ground.

Realpolitik also runs counter to the Bush doctrine in places like the ME because you need to deal with regimes like KSA who export their terrorist minions to Iraq to fight and kill US soldiers, instead of going after those regimes. Ditto for dealing with Iran - realpolitik suggests that you prop up Iran's enemies so that they counterbalance each other.

222 paxnhymn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:23:48pm

OK Rudy, now you've got my attention!

( I really hate his lisp though! Why can't we get an eloquent speaker for a candidate?)

223 jcm  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:23:59pm

re: #204 screaming_eagle

re: #189 jcm

Social Security is not invested, it goes into the general fund.

Just a comparison.

If a corporation did with "pension" funds what congress did with social security all the corporate officers would be in jail.

224 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:24:03pm

re: #199 Milk Toast Intolerant

Has anyone democratic candidates published an essay like this in a major newspaper, so we can get a glimpse of their grasp on the issues?

John Edwards, in the same issue of Foreign Affairs.

Reengaging With the World

There. You read it and tell me what was in it. I just had dinner.

225 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:24:16pm

re: #212 hiker

If I were a Democrat, I'd vote for your big toe before I voted for Edwards. Of course, if I were a Democrat, I'd have to shoot myself.

226 Bobibutu  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:24:49pm

re: #209 carefulnow

re: #200 screaming_eagle
Do you think it's reasonable to assume that he will actually cut taxes AND move forward with expanding the military and implementing his ballistic missile system? I worry that this position paper is words without substance. Words we like to hear, no doubt, but not backed up with action. My take on it. I respect that others may disagree with me.

I don't know it's reasonable to assume that he will actually cut taxes
however JFK cut them - increased the prosecution of the war in VN and started the Lunar Landing program all together. Of course his Sec. Tres. (a republican) put it together for him.

227 screaming_eagle  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:24:50pm

re: #209 carefulnow

OK. We're gonna disagree then. Cause I believe him when he says he won't raise taxes.

228 WimbledonWomble  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:24:52pm

Guiliani is the new Truman.

229 MICHAEL in MI  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:25:12pm

re: #35 freetoken

Here is the question: Should we believe him?

That is not intended to be a slur towards Rudy, but just an honest
question. Anyone running for office will always make plenty of policy
pronouncements. But... is it really him? (Same can be asked of all
candidates.) Or, did a political operative, after having polled key
states' populace, determine this is the right thing to be said now to
garner the minimum number of delegate votes to get the election.

Same can be asked of every candidate.

I wonder how many people here are aware of the skeletons in Rudy's closet.

Whether it is sanctuary for illegals, gay rights, gun control, or
abortion...
there are so many possible past positions that I find it
hard those who label themselves social conservatives could find Rudy
acceptable.


My thoughts exactly. So our country gets destroyed from within with all this crap that Rudy supports, but HEY!.. he supports Israel, so let's elect the guy.

Please.

The only thing Rudy has going for him is he talks a good talk on terrorism. That's it. And we have no idea if he can walk the walk. How about people stop getting orgasmic over one policy statement and look at the big picture here.

The illegal immigration issue is just as big, if not bigger than the foreign terrorism issue. What good will it do if we fix the Middle East and prevent terrorists to strike here, yet completely destroy the nation from within with illegal immigration and taking our guns away?

Who's my candidate you ask? I don't have one yet. I don't believe any of them have proven jack squat about being worthy of the Presidency yet. Which is why it is disgusting to see all this rah rah-ing for certain candidates right now.

230 carefulnow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:25:12pm

re: #216 mondoreb
So you got no problem with increasing the national debt...?

231 tantraman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:25:18pm

Rudy shows his true colors:

"Freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."

Just what America needs - a deceitful, psychopathic authoritarian.

232 Dahveed  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:25:40pm

I haven't had the opportunity to read Mayor Giuliani's essay, but I was just having a conversation with someone today about this. I was saying knowing what I know today I would still support the war in Iraq. We brought freedom to people desperately in need of freedom and we deposed a brutal thug in the process. The media and the left would have us be ashamed of this. We should be ashamed of bringing freedom to a nation? Only the left can find shame in that. For me the candidate that stood up to say that the war was right in spite of the setbacks would be the right candidate for me.

As I said I haven't had an opportunity to read the article so I may be completely wrong about the Mayor's position on the war in Iraq. But, just reading these two paragraphs leads me to believe that the Mayor has a good handle on what America's place in the world should be.

233 blue_like_jazz  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:25:44pm

GIULIANI/HUNTER '08!

234 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:26:00pm

re: #224 squarepeg

Not too hard to find. They were one after the other on RealClearPolitics.

235 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:26:10pm
236 Yankee Division Son  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:26:22pm

re: #222 paxnhymn

OK Rudy, now you've got my attention!

( I really hate his lisp though! Why can't we get an eloquent speaker for a candidate?)


Said it before, I'll say it again. It's all about what they say, not how they say it.

237 Opinionated  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:26:39pm

re: #209 carefulnow

re: #200 screaming_eagle
Do you think it's reasonable to assume that he will actually cut taxes AND move forward with expanding the military and implementing his ballistic missile system? I worry that this position paper is words without substance. Words we like to hear, no doubt, but not backed up with action. My take on it. I respect that others may disagree with me.

Reagan cut taxes and expended the military. Of course it created a huge deficit because Congress continued to spend.

But what Reagan accomplished- the fall of the Soviets- made his deficit worthwhile, IMO.

So it can be done, but much depends on a hard ass President controlling Congress.

Any other hard asses running?

238 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:26:50pm

re: #224 squarepeg

John Edwards, in the same issue of Foreign Affairs.

Engaging the world
Declining popularity
Talking to the UN
Our allies in NATO

This isn't foreign policy, this is something you read at night to your kids, like Jack and the Beanstalk.

239 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:26:51pm

re: #209 carefulnow


Do you think it's reasonable to assume that he will actually cut taxes AND move forward with expanding the military and implementing his ballistic missile system? I worry that this position paper is words without substance. Words we like to hear, no doubt, but not backed up with action. My take on it. I respect that others may disagree with me.

I think this is also what Rudy believes in his heart. Let's not forget that his city was attacked on 9/11 and he might have an axe to grind with the head choppers. He walked the streets of NYC on 9/11, and he attended a whole lot of funerals. Those memories run deep, imo.

240 blue_like_jazz  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:26:59pm

(since nobody here 'cept col. panik and i will vote for hunter)

241 MICHAEL in MI  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:26:59pm

re: #209 carefulnow


Do you think it's reasonable to assume that he will actually cut taxes AND
move forward with expanding the military and implementing his ballistic
missile system? I worry that this position paper is words without
substance. Words we like to hear, no doubt, but not backed up with
action.
My take on it. I respect that others may disagree with me.


My thoughts exactly.

242 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:27:02pm

re: #222 paxnhymn

The most eloquent speaker in politics today has not announced his candidacy, and likely won't, anyway. Besides, he is unelectable. I'm speaking, of cousre, of Newt Gingrich.

243 phillygirl  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:27:09pm

Thanks for the clarification, Hiker. Now I recall that Reagan didn't confront the terrorists when the Marine Barracks in Lebanon were blown up. Reagan talked a good game - but he didn't act decisively then.

We can't stand by and let these murderers target our interests. They only understand force. I think we need someone with a strong spine like Rudy to handle current and future situations. He has my support.

244 panamahat  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:27:49pm

re: #87 stevieray
Oops -- should have posted this way.

Re: the link, couldn't make it work. Any other ref?

Re: Rudy

He's the Man!

245 HR Guy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:27:58pm

I have to make up my mind earlier than a few others (I'm in SC) so this sort of thing helps Rudy's cause with me.

I just hope he moves more to the right on social issues. It makes me sick to see democrats luring people of faith away from the Republican party by playing up their own "faith". A pro-abortion, pro-gun control position by Guliani will not play well in the south (oh yeah, he's a yankee too :) ).

246 Maine's Michael  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:28:34pm
America’s commitment to Israel’s security is a permanent feature of our foreign policy.

Uh, someone tell Condofuckingleeza, please. In fact, just tell her to pack her bags and go back to stanford. The Baker tool can't hold a candle to Rudy (or Hunter, or Thompson) when it comes to just plain old logic. Of course, for her and Bush/Baker gang, it was never about logic, it was about doing anything and everything to ensure the sauds continue to rule to the last possible fucking moment.

247 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:29:04pm

re: #231 tantraman


Please tell me he didn't say that.l

248 anat  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:29:12pm

re: #64 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

The 9/11 generation has learned from the history of the twentieth century that America must not turn a blind eye to gathering storms. We must base our trust on the actions, rather than the words, of others. And we must be on guard against overpromising and underdelivering. Above all, we have learned that evil must be confronted -- not appeased -- because only principled strength can lead to a realistic peace.

Wow, that's almost Reaganesque!

Drop the "almost". It's Reaganesque plus.
Gosh, I wish November 2008 was nearer. The world needs Rudy.

249 Yankee Division Son  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:29:13pm

re: #225 Malatrope

re: #212 hiker

If
I were a Democrat, I'd vote for your big toe before I voted for
Edwards. Of course, if I were a Democrat, I'd have to shoot myself.

There in lies the rub.. Democrats are usually against gun ownership, ...

250 Geepers  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:29:13pm

paxnhymn (#222),

Why can't we get an eloquent speaker for a candidate?

They don't teach classical rhetoric anymore.

251 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:29:16pm

re: #230 carefulnow

The national debt was WAY down on my list of things I felt were important during the 80s during Reagan's watch.

And it's equally important to me now.

Doesn't seem to be any problems with increasing it for Viagra prescriptions for the old folks; why not for 10 new divisions for national defense.

252 pink freud  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:29:38pm

OT: Sky News reporting that death toll from suicide truck bombing of Yazidi may reach 500.

[Link: news.sky.com...]

253 stuck in california  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:30:49pm

re: #240 blue_like_jazz

I would vote for Hunter. He has got to get on the bully pulpit and make a LOT of noise. And then more noise.

254 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:31:05pm

re: #238 mondoreb

re: #224 squarepeg


John Edwards, in the same issue of Foreign Affairs.
Engaging the world
Declining popularity
Talking to the UN
Our allies in NATO

This isn't foreign policy, this is something you read at night to your kids, like Jack and the Beanstalk.

There you go.

255 paxnhymn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:31:17pm

re: #216 mondoreb

re: #209 carefulnow


Do you think it's reasonable to assume that he will actually cut taxes AND move forward with expanding the military

Reagan did.

why don't people get It? when taxes are cut busineses and individuals spend more creating more jobs and more tax revenue. The coffers actually fill due to economic prosperity! it's so simple!

256 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:31:48pm

re: #253 stuck in california

re: #240 blue_like_jazz

I would vote for Hunter. He has got to get on the bully pulpit and make a LOT of noise. And then more noise.

I would like to, but the MSM has decided that he will not be a candidate.

OldLineTexan

257 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:32:09pm

re: #255 paxnhymn

I'm giving you a Gold Star!

258 coquimbojoe  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:32:27pm

I met Rudy lasy week at a very small fundraiser. He was very impressive and his thoughts on Islamic terrorism were spot on. I don't agree with him on a number of issues, but he has my vote because he will fight Islamic terrorism.

259 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:32:27pm

re: #249 Yankee Division Son

How do you think I survived being a Democrat?
/grin
/(it was a long, long time ago...)

260 screaming_eagle  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:32:30pm

re: #223 jcm

If a corporation did with "pension" funds what congress did with social security all the corporate officers would be in jail.

I agree. And I was just stateing why it is a bad comparison. Government program vs private investment.

261 stuck in california  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:32:42pm

re: #256 OldLineTexan

More noise!

262 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:33:19pm

re: #247 hiker

I too would like a source for that comment allegedly by Rudy.

263 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:33:20pm

Duncan Hunter is my first choice. Unfortunately, I don't see him lasting much beyond the first few primaries.

264 SusanL  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:33:49pm

re: #78 lawhawk

As much as I want to believe that Rudy will follow through on what he's said, the realities are such that the State Department would eviscerate anything that deviates from the longstanding US policy dealing with the Palestinians - give 'em a state at all costs.

A question Lawhawk. If they are fired, what does it matter? As far as I know State department employees are hired and fired, not elected or appointed. Could you educate me please? I don't understand.

Susan

265 stuck in california  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:33:52pm

re: #263 hiker

Nice guy, finish last.

266 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:34:33pm

re: #147 Sharmuta

Ultimately, the most important thing we can do to help Africa is to increase trade with the continent. U.S. government aid is important, but aid not linked to reform perpetuates bad policies and poverty. It is better to give people a hand up than a handout.

Awesome, Rudy.

/Electrify Africa!

I quite agree. We can give our labor market to Africa, they would love to work and pick themselves up out of the tyranny of thuggocracies. We can then tell China to go bugger themselves, and all our cash that's being used to pull their society up out of the 18th century, and thier military into the mid 21st, will go buh-bye. Africa deserves a fair shake for a change, and not just a bunch of handouts.

267 carefulnow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:34:34pm

re: #251 mondoreb
Funny, if crude.
Seriously, choices have to be made; we can't have it all. Rudy actually appeals to a lot of Democrats because of his stances on social issues. I just wonder how he's gonna pay for everything he wants. If we have Democrats in both houses and Rudy in the White House, how much more income tax am I gonna have to pay?

268 Geepers  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:34:58pm

hiker (#242),

The most eloquent speaker in politics today has not announced his candidacy, and likely won't, anyway. Besides, he is unelectable. I'm speaking, of cousre, of Newt Gingrich.

Correct all the way around.

269 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:35:13pm

re: #254 Ginn

You know, I used to write and got out of it for 15 years, but since I've been on LGF (about 10 days) I'm getting the fever back. Of course, I'm still a little bite ginger.

270 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:35:49pm

re: #261 stuck in california

re: #256 OldLineTexan

More noise!

Aye, but will it be reported? Therein lies the rub. The system and selective reporting will hand me a reduced, sanitized list of candidates by the time I get to vote. Mitt Romney, for example and in my opinion, gets attention all out of proportion to his "importance" as a candidate.

OldLineTexan

271 Yankee Division Son  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:36:03pm

re: #259 Malatrope

re: #249 Yankee Division Son

How do you think I survived being a Democrat?
/grin
/(it was a long, long time ago...)

Good to see you made it through...

/LOL!

272 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:36:14pm

re: #221 lawhawk

re: #171 Killgore Trout

Condi Rice has supposed to follow the Bush doctrine, and yet she's paid visits to the PA and extended the olive branch to Abbas, as though the PA and Fatah are separate and distinct from the Hamas thugs that are also part of the PA and both seek Israel's destruction..


I'm pretty sure those visits were ordered and endorsed by Bush. Is there any evidence that they were not?
I'm running out of steam for the evening but we should continue this debate in the future. The topic comes up often enough that we should have plenty of opportunities.

273 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:36:22pm

re: #267 carefulnow

re: #251 mondoreb
Funny, if crude.
Seriously, choices have to be made; we can't have it all. Rudy actually appeals to a lot of Democrats because of his stances on social issues. I just wonder how he's gonna pay for everything he wants. If we have Democrats in both houses and Rudy in the White House, how much more income tax am I gonna have to pay?

If we don't stand up to terrorism and leave Israel to defend itself, this will be moot.

This is my opinion.

274 pink freud  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:36:42pm

re: #262 Malatrope

If you google the entire Rudy quote, there are many hits. From a speech in 1994. NYTimes/source

[Link: www.libertypost.org...]

275 Texas Joel  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:36:44pm

re: #215 madmama

For all of you who are concerned with Rudy's past in regard to N.Y.C. being a sanctuary city...
All I can say is..people change, circumstances change, times change.

Rudy's position was somewhat different from current sanctuary folks. He said that he hadn't the money to do the job of the federal government, not that he believed they should be protected from the INS, just protected from the gangs. When the mayor took over from Dinkins there was nothing working. The last thing he needed was a jail full of people who were going to OR'd as soon they saw a federal immigration judge. The US wasn't paying their rent in NYC's jails, and there were lots of US born hoodlums scaring tourists out of NY at night. Money and jail space wasn't enough to do both jobs.

276 MICHAEL in MI  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:36:46pm

Here's a litmus test for a candidate who will get my vote: Are you in favor of shutting down CAIR, Muslim Students Association and other Islamic groups in this nation which are funding terrorism, supporting terrorist groups and inciting hatred among Muslims for America?

Anyone who answers "YES" to that without any clarifications and hemming and hawing will have my vote.

Enough of this BS. Get the candidates on record about C.A.I.R. They should be shut down. Period. I will know if the candidate understands the threat of Islamists within our country if they favor shutting down C.A.I.R. And if they are too chicken-sh*t to speak on it, because it wouldn't be "politically correct", then I know they don't have the balls to fight the Islamists as President and will do the same f***ing pandering to the Islamists as President George "Islam means peace" Bush.

277 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:36:59pm

re: #269 mondoreb

re: #254 Ginn

You know, I used to write and got out of it for 15 years, but since I've been on LGF (about 10 days) I'm getting the fever back. Of course, I'm still a little bite ginger.

Very cool, Mr. Mondo. Glad to hear it.

278 blue_like_jazz  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:37:26pm

re: #253 stuck in california

re: #240 blue_like_jazz

I would vote for Hunter. He has got to get on the bully pulpit and make a LOT of noise. And then more noise.


WHY do you think he isn't gaining traction?!? it drives me crazy! he's GIULIANI + REAGAN all in one. i just don't understand it. his CORE PRINCIPLES make him a slam dunk for me.

he's tough on terror, a hard ass about immigration, is the ONLY candidate who's talked about FAIR TRADE with china, and is PRO 2ND AMENDMENT! what more do you people need?!? =)

279 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:37:27pm
280 Opinionated  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:37:28pm

re: #231 tantraman

Rudy shows his true colors:


"Freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
Just what America needs - a deceitful, psychopathic authoritarian.

Maybe it could be stated better, and one needs to know the content in which it was said, but the sentiment is absolutely true.

Freedom without authority is not Freedom, it's anarchy.

We are free to go to the polls to bestow authority or we would not have a functioning society.

281 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:37:38pm

Here's an interesting little thing, by Ross Kaminsky, on Rudy. Apparently he does very well in these little fund-raising get togethers.

282 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:37:51pm

re: #230 carefulnow

So you got no problem with increasing the national debt...?

Actually, it's not so scary when you realize that it's less than our annual GDP.

That said, if I had a million ten trillion dollars . . .

If I had ten trillion dollars . .

/I's pay off the national debt

283 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:38:05pm

re: #264 SusanL

re: #78 lawhawk


As much as I want to believe that Rudy will follow through on what he's said, the realities are such that the State Department would eviscerate anything that deviates from the longstanding US policy dealing with the Palestinians - give 'em a state at all costs.

A question Lawhawk. If they are fired, what does it matter? As far as I know State department employees are hired and fired, not elected or appointed. Could you educate me please? I don't understand.

Susan

Eight US Attorneys were fired. They serve at the whim of the Executive branch, so no problem. Then...

OldLineTexan

284 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:38:25pm

re: #271 Yankee Division Son

But now I have lots and lots of guns so I have to be very, very careful not to wake up a Democrat these days...

285 stuck in california  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:38:36pm

re: #270 OldLineTexan

Hunter is from CA. He could make some noise by being a bit flamboyant about being CA. Stir some shit, if not he is toast.

286 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:38:41pm

re: #267 carefulnow

Funny, if crude.
Seriously, choices have to be made; we can't have it all. Rudy actually appeals to a lot of Democrats because of his stances on social issues. I just wonder how he's gonna pay for everything he wants. If we have Democrats in both houses and Rudy in the White House, how much more income tax am I gonna have to pay?

Actually, you can have it all.

Not in the sense of unlimited wants. But the only time I've ever heard the drums beaten about the Big Bad Deficit is when the Dims want to raise taxes for some social nonsense.

I say hold the line at Budget + 2% increase on all social spending, reduce tax rates where and whenever it frees up capital movement and then build 15 divisions and while you're at it, dig another canal...maybe this time across Venzuela.

287 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:39:05pm

re: #264 SusanL

There are appointed officials, those who get nominated like Sec. State, Undersecretaries, and similar top level positions - and then there are career officers who do not have to go through the nomination process. My concern is that the career types have such a hold on the bureaucracy because they're entrenched that they can thwart wholesale changes.

The CIA and any other federal agency has the same kind of problem - if any political appointee attempts to clean house - like Porter Goss tried at CIA, all of a sudden you get leakers talking to the press and undermining those efforts and pushback.

It's bureaucratic politics 101.

288 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:39:12pm

re: #280 Opinionated

I still want to see the source, and the context.

289 pink freud  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:39:17pm

re: #280 Opinionated

'Freedom Is About Authority': Excerpts From Giuliani Speech on Crime
[Link: query.nytimes.com...]

Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani was among the speakers on Wednesday at a forum about crime in the cities, sponsored by The New York Post. The Mayor discussed how crime and law enforcement had changed in New York over several decades, and how society had changed. Here is an excerpt, as transcribed by The New York Times.

We constantly present the false impression that government can solve problems that government in America was designed not to solve. Families are significantly less important in the development of children today than they were 30 or 40 years ago. Religion has less influence than it did 30 or 40 years ago. Communities don't mean what they meant 30 or 40 years ago.

As Americans, we're not sure we share values. We're sometimes even afraid to use the word values. We talk about teaching ethics in schools -- people say, "What ethics? Whose ethics? Maybe we can't." And they confuse that with teaching of religion. And we are afraid to reaffirm the basics upon which a lawful and a decent society are based. We're almost embarrassed by it.

We look upon authority too often and focus over and over again, for 30 or 40 or 50 years, as if there is something wrong with authority. We see only the oppressive side of authority. Maybe it comes out of our history and our background. What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.

[ Interruption by someone in the audience. ]

You have free speech so I can be heard.

[ Another interruption. ]

At the core the struggle is philosophical. There are many, many things that can be done in law enforcement to protect us better. There are many things that can done to create a government that is more responsive and more helpful. The fact is that we're fooling people if we suggest to them the solutions to these very, very deep-seated problems are going to be found in government. . . .

The solutions are going to be found when we figure out as a society what our families are going to be like in the next century, and how maybe they are going to be different. They are going to have to be just as solid and just as strong in teaching every single youngster their responsibility for citizenship. We're going to find the answer when schools once again train citizens. Schools exist in America and have always existed to train responsible citizens of the United States of America.

If they don't do that, it's very hard to hold us together as a country, because it's shared values that hold us together. We're going to come through this when we realize that it's all about, ultimately, individual responsibility. That in fact the criminal act is about individual responsibility and the building of the respect for the law and ethics is also a matter of individual responsibility.

290 mungagungadin  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:39:49pm

That's Rudy, strong on snarl and low on answers. And that's Charles.

291 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:39:52pm

re: #277 Ginn

Just my intermost thoughts driving my keys instead of studied, reasoned thinking...another drive-by post.

292 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:40:02pm

re: #231 tantraman

Rudy shows his true colors:

"Freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."

Just what America needs - a deceitful, psychopathic authoritarian.

Got a linky for that?

/or are you just out trolling again?

293 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:40:09pm

re: #287 lawhawk

re: #264 SusanL

There are appointed officials, those who get nominated like Sec. State, Undersecretaries, and similar top level positions - and then there are career officers who do not have to go through the nomination process. My concern is that the career types have such a hold on the bureaucracy because they're entrenched that they can thwart wholesale changes.

The CIA and any other federal agency has the same kind of problem - if any political appointee attempts to clean house - like Porter Goss tried at CIA, all of a sudden you get leakers talking to the press and undermining those efforts and pushback.

It's bureaucratic politics 101.

Law...

This will apply to whoever takes office. Rudy cleaned up NYC. He might have a shot at entrenched bureaucracy.

294 BeerForMyHorses  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:40:17pm

re: #21 DesertSage

I liked Fred until he hired Spencer Abraham as his campaign directer.

Here's what Paul Sperry has to say about Spencer Abraham in his book Infiltration:
"Before joining the Bush administration, Abraham served in the Senate, where he sponsored the Senate version of Campbell's bill to repeal secret evidence against illegal Arab aliens. Likewise, the Republican raked in a lot of campaign cash from pro-terrorist donors during his tenure in the Senate representing Michigan. He hauled in fifty-five hundred dollars alone from ...Muslim activists implicated in the Safa group investigation."

295 lennysquiggy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:40:24pm

#130

If you are implying that Rudy did anything to negatively impact the safety of NYC residents and visitors during his time in office... well, you never visited NYC before Rudy. You just don't have a clue.

Rudy cleaned up the city. He was HATED by the leftists. He destroyed the mafia. He made the city a tourist destination again. Maybe he didn't deport anyone - but I'm pretty sure that was beyond the scope of his power. Either way, you are fooling yourself if you think Rudy's immigration record as mayor of NYC is grounds to disregard him as a candidate. If anyone will shut down illegal immigration, it's Rudy. He will shut down anything he sees as a threat. He doesn't mess around. If you lived in NYC during his tenure, you'd already know that.

The NYC left hated Rudy almost as much as they hated Reagan. Put Rudy in the White House and they'll hate him more than they hate GW Bush. If you've grown tired of the current administration's failure to stand up for itself in the face of liberal lies and distortions, then Rudy is your man. Just read his foreign policy statement - he states his intentions clearly and then follows through.

Thank you. Try again.

"It's about Islamism, stupid."

296 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:40:39pm

re: #289 pink freud

Thank you!

297 stuck in california  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:40:42pm

re: #278 blue_like_jazz

He's gotta get some attention somehow! I wish I were his campaign manager.

298 Catttt  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:40:51pm

re: #230 carefulnow

re: #216
So you got no problem with increasing the national debt...?

See, I figure if we're all a greasy spot on the ground, the National Debt will be moot.

And your "all talk no substance" comment was wrong on two levels. Mayor Giuliani was the poster boy for substance throughout his career. When I think "substance" - I think of Mayor Giuliani. He hasn't done a lot with the feds yet, since he has not been in the fed government yet!

299 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:41:03pm

re: #278 blue_like_jazz

Hey, I agree with you. And I'll vote for him on any ballot that's in front of me. Unfortunately, I don't see a hell of a lot of others doing the same thing.

300 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:41:24pm

re: #285 stuck in california

re: #270 OldLineTexan

Hunter is from CA. He could make some noise by being a bit flamboyant about being CA. Stir some shit, if not he is toast.

The man does not strike me as flamboyant. I like that.

But he needs some better handlers' apparently. I want to see the man (and his other ignored opponents) on my cable TV channel so I can hear them argue it out. What passes for a debate now is ridiculous.

OldLineTexan

301 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:41:50pm

re: #293 Ginn

He did that through the NYPD, but he ran into a brick wall with the Board of Ed and City Council - it took Bloomberg to get the mayor's office to get direct control over the Board.

302 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:42:07pm

re: #291 mondoreb

re: #277 Ginn

Just my intermost thoughts driving my keys instead of studied, reasoned thinking...another drive-by post.

Very nice.

303 easy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:42:28pm

Tsunami warning since Ed's not around.

Hawaii

304 stevieray  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:42:47pm
305 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:42:53pm

re: #280 Opinionated


It sure as hell could have been worded better, because the way it reads is alarming.

306 classicalRealist  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:43:12pm

Unfortunately I must disagree with Guiliani's politics and foreign policy.

Nowhere does he ever mention that at the base of all politics there have to be inalienable individual rights. He would not be able to solve any problems anywhere in the world in the name of "good governance" and democracy. He does not promote the most fundamental of American principles.

307 Catttt  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:43:25pm

re: #278 blue_like_jazz

re: #253 stuck in california

re: #240 blue_like_jazz

I would vote for Hunter. He has got to get on the bully pulpit and make a LOT of noise. And then more noise.


WHY do you think he isn't gaining traction?!? it drives me crazy! he's GIULIANI + REAGAN all in one. i just don't understand it. his CORE PRINCIPLES make him a slam dunk for me.

he's tough on terror, a hard ass about immigration, is the ONLY candidate who's talked about FAIR TRADE with china, and is PRO 2ND AMENDMENT! what more do you people need?!? =)

He's my first choice too.

308 blue_like_jazz  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:43:45pm

hiker and stuck...

i actually get a LOT of questions about him because of my "HUNTER 08" bumper sticker. get one and put it on your car!

309 stuck in california  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:43:51pm

Just for the record, I am no longer "stuck" in California. That is not why I like Hunter.

310 Catttt  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:44:14pm

re: #306 classicalRealist

Unfortunately I must disagree with Guiliani's politics and foreign policy.

Nowhere does he ever mention that at the base of all politics there have to be inalienable individual rights. He would not be able to solve any problems anywhere in the world in the name of "good governance" and democracy. He does not promote the most fundamental of American principles.

I'm sorry, but what the HELL are you talking about, please?

311 Opinionated  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:44:21pm

re: #289 pink freud

Can anyone argue with that?

And between that speech and the subject column of this thread, could any of the other candidates measure up to this man?

312 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:44:49pm

re: #294 BeerForMyHorses

re: #21 DesertSage

I liked Fred until he hired Spencer Abraham as his campaign directer.

Here's what Paul Sperry has to say about Spencer Abraham in his book Infiltration:
"Before joining the Bush administration, Abraham served in the Senate, where he sponsored the Senate version of Campbell's bill to repeal secret evidence against illegal Arab aliens. Likewise, the Republican raked in a lot of campaign cash from pro-terrorist donors during his tenure in the Senate representing Michigan. He hauled in fifty-five hundred dollars alone from ...Muslim activists implicated in the Safa group investigation."

When Fred hired Abraham... that was it for me.

Fred's dead, baby. Fred's dead.

313 Opinionated  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:45:42pm

re: #305 hiker

See #289

314 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:45:42pm

I strongly support Rudy, and I am a conservative.

I have some problem with Rudy's social issues, including his not being an all out 2nd Amendment supporter, but given that all of the Democrat candidates are 100% anti-gun, with the exception of Bill Richardson, and when push comes to shove, as it did during the YouTube debate, Richardson, as every true leftist must do, turned coat, and sided with the leftist kooks on the gun issue.

Rudy, overall, is the hands down best choice to LEAD this country, compared to Rudy, Hillary and Barack Hussein look like they don't even belong in this country, no matter how they try and spin things.

Rudy is my choice, at least right now he is, unless some dark horse who has a legit chance comes along, I'm voting for Rudy.

Rudy will sweep the moderate vote in this country, guarenteed.

Rudy is actually everything that a moderate looks for in a candidate.

In all honesty, the Dems don't stand a chance against Rudy.

315 blue_like_jazz  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:45:46pm

i'm out...

FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT, HUNTERITES! =)

//tired jazzy

316 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:45:51pm

re: #301 lawhawk

re: #293 Ginn

He did that through the NYPD, but he ran into a brick wall with the Board of Ed and City Council - it took Bloomberg to get the mayor's office to get direct control over the Board.

But my main point is this. Anyone who takes office will have to deal with the bloated and entrenched State Dept.

317 paxnhymn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:45:58pm

re: #236 Yankee Division Son

re: #222 paxnhymn


OK Rudy, now you've got my attention!

( I really hate his lisp though! Why can't we get an eloquent speaker for a candidate?)


Said it before, I'll say it again. It's all about what they say, not how they say it.

sorry pal. This is America! Packaging is EVERYTHING!

318 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:46:04pm

re: #295 lennysquiggy

Yes I was a frequent visitor to NYC before Rudy and a friend who was with me during one of the visits had this to say as we strolled in Times Square in 1985 (during the NY Open Chess Tournament):
"They could nuke this place and I wouldn't miss it"
(Pre-911, but a true quote)

IF you had read my previous posts, you will understand that ONCE MORE, I think this policy paper of his and his crime record in NYC is the bee's knees. However, I have serious reservations about his stated purposes and his results in other, also important, areas.

And yes, remaining a vibrant, free country is at the top of my priority list.

And now, I'm close to being All Rudi-ed Out.

319 mich-again  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:46:04pm
It is not in the interest of the United States, at a time when it is being threatened by Islamist terrorists, to assist the creation of another state that will support terrorism.

Perfectly stated. Hear hear!

320 Thanos  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:46:21pm

For those arguing that Rudy would raise taxes, do x, y, z, etc... Here are his 12 commitments - for all of his political life what Rudy says he's going to do, he does.

The Twelve Commitments:

I will keep America on offense in the Terrorists War on Us.
I will end illegal immigration, secure our borders, and identify every non-citizen in our nation.
I will restore fiscal discipline and cut wasteful Washington spending.
I will cut taxes and reform the tax code.
I will impose accountability on Washington.
I will lead America towards energy independence.
I will give Americans more control over, and access to, healthcare with affordable and portable free-market solutions.
I will increase adoptions, decrease abortions, and protect the quality of life for our children.
I will reform the legal system and appoint strict constructionist judges.
I will ensure that every community in America is prepared for terrorist attacks and natural disasters.
I will provide access to a quality education to every child in America by giving real school choice to parents.
I will expand America’s involvement in the global economy and strengthen our reputation around the world.

321 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:46:29pm
The election of Hamas in the Palestinian-controlled territories is a case in point. The problem there is not the lack of statehood but corrupt and unaccountable governance. The Palestinian people need decent governance first, as a prerequisite for statehood. Too much emphasis has been placed on brokering negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians — negotiations that bring up the same issues again and again. It is not in the interest of the United States, at a time when it is being threatened by Islamist terrorists, to assist the creation of another state that will support terrorism. Palestinian statehood will have to be earned.

This is exactly where he lost me. A 'palestinian' state? There never has been one; talk about giving in to terrorists, no matter how he phrases it.

I was for him before he even entered the race, and now? I am furious.

I have been looking into Mike Huckabee, and see a lot to like. His position on immigration is spot on..and his positions on the critical issues are there to see.

I do not agree with some, but there is no such thing as a perfect candidate. And compare his adminstration as Gov. of Arkansas to that of the Billaries and their
Arkansas Mafia?

322 cpuller  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:46:36pm

Rudy is saying things I like to hear. If FT doesn't get in the game soon, Rudy will be my choice.

323 carefulnow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:46:45pm

re: #290 mungagungadin I read your link. I am interested in what Mitt has to say. But I'd think again about purposely spilling beer in Charles's house. Not good form, friend.

324 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:46:46pm

re: #289 pink freud

Nice work.

We fact-check yer ass here, tantraman.

325 BeerForMyHorses  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:46:48pm

re: #297 stuck in california

I like him too, but he is too conservative to get the independents, I fear. He'd make a helluva VP though.

326 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:46:52pm

re: #312 Ginn

I wish we had a candidate with Rudy's attitude, Mitt's looks, Fred's presence, McCain's connections, Newt's brains, and Duncan's policies.

327 Geepers  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:46:55pm

classicalRealist (#306),

Why would he need to reiterate what is the very foundation of our constitution?

328 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:47:41pm

Not to sound like a borken record, but Duncan Hunter is far more qualified, and has the correct views on all the issues.


But, again, I'll vote for anybody running against Barak Hussein or Pantsuit Stalin in November 2008.

329 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:47:45pm

re: #314 republic

Any of the Republicans are preferable to any of the Democrats...and I'm including Ron Paul.

330 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:47:56pm

re: #283 OldLineTexan

From what I have gathered, the 8 were fired because they wouldn't take on voter fraud cases.

331 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:48:01pm

re: #306 classicalRealist

Unfortunately I must disagree with Guiliani's politics and foreign policy.

Nowhere does he ever mention that at the base of all politics there have to be inalienable individual rights. He would not be able to solve any problems anywhere in the world in the name of "good governance" and democracy. He does not promote the most fundamental of American principles.

Are you a "Realist Theorist?"

332 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:48:12pm

re: #328 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Not to sound like a borken record, but Duncan Hunter is far more qualified, and has the correct views on all the issues.


But, again, I'll vote for anybody running against Barak Hussein or Pantsuit Stalin in November 2008.

Bork all ya like, I'm with you.

OldLineTexan

333 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:48:14pm

re: #316 Ginn

But my main point is this. Anyone who takes office will have to deal with the bloated and entrenched State Dept.

Zing!

334 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:48:26pm

re: #310 Cattt

Ha ha! I was wondering the same thing!

335 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:48:33pm

re: #278 blue_like_jazz

re: #253 stuck in california


re: #240 blue_like_jazz

I would vote for Hunter. He has got to get on the bully pulpit and make a LOT of noise. And then more noise.


WHY do you think he isn't gaining traction?!? it drives me crazy! he's GIULIANI + REAGAN all in one. i just don't understand it. his CORE PRINCIPLES make him a slam dunk for me.

he's tough on terror, a hard ass about immigration, is the ONLY candidate who's talked about FAIR TRADE with china, and is PRO 2ND AMENDMENT! what more do you people need?!? =)

He doesn't seem to have much of a campaign though. The wonks like us who pay attention love him, but the semi wonks and below who would love him if only they heard his message, don't, because it's not getting out. Personally, I've loved Hunter and Huckabee all along. As far as crime, leadership, and national security go, I've always been a fan of Rudy, but... there's all the other stuff that makes him unpalatable to social conservatives, which could fracture the base, opening the election up to a third party candidate, who pulls off 2% - 5%, just enough to get us clicking our heels and doing the Seig Heil Hillary.

336 stuck in california  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:48:55pm

re: #325 BeerForMyHorses

I could live with that, IF it were Rudy as the nominee.

337 stevieray  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:48:58pm

re: #304 stevieray

Still not working, must be blocked for posting. Try this link instead:

[Link: www.thereligionofpeace.com...]

Story is the third one down in the right sidebar:

"Pakistan Warn English-Speaking Schools of Another 'Beslan'..."

338 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:49:00pm

re: #330 republic

re: #283 OldLineTexan

From what I have gathered, the 8 were fired because they wouldn't take on voter fraud cases.

Not arguing the problem itself, just citing an example of the divergence between theory and practice.

OldLineTexan

339 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:50:24pm

re: #312 Ginn

re: #294 BeerForMyHorses


re: #21 DesertSage

I liked Fred until he hired Spencer Abraham as his campaign directer.

Here's what Paul Sperry has to say about Spencer Abraham in his book Infiltration:
"Before joining the Bush administration, Abraham served in the Senate, where he sponsored the Senate version of Campbell's bill to repeal secret evidence against illegal Arab aliens. Likewise, the Republican raked in a lot of campaign cash from pro-terrorist donors during his tenure in the Senate representing Michigan. He hauled in fifty-five hundred dollars alone from ...Muslim activists implicated in the Safa group investigation."


When Fred hired Abraham... that was it for me.

Fred's dead, baby. Fred's dead.

How much money have the Clintons taken from Arab donors, maybe, $100 million over the past 15 years?

340 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:50:25pm

Oh, and by the way, Spencer Abraham is not Fred's campaign manager.

/so, like, give it a rest

341 MICHAEL in MI  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:50:55pm

re: #279 song_and_dance_man

Finally some sanity. For a few years this blog was a 'don't you dare criticize Bush' zone. I did anyway and caught hell for it. Who cares? Not me I will still speak my mind.

Rudy is a lighter shade of pale, but says the right things to get the goat of those who are suspect of most American patriots.

I agree. Rudy is far from the best choice, but unfortunately may be the
only winnable choice for keeping the moonbats out of the Executive. But
barely.


Oh, I hear you there on the criticism of President Bush. I support him against the ridiculous vitriolic attacks from the Left, and I support the war effort 100%, but I don't support every policy of President Bush, especially his policy on illegal immigration and his "Islam means Peace" pandering crap. That pandering set us back BIG TIME right out of the gate after 9/11. I actually fell into the "Islam means Peace" trap myself, because I was ignorant and respected President Bush for his inspiration after 9/11 and trusted what he said. Boy did I have an awakening when I started researching and educating and informing myself about Islam.

With regards to Rudy, I can understand the sentiment that he is better than the Democrats, but that is certainly not saying much. Not in the least. My cat is better than the Democrats.

So I don't have a problem with people supporting Rudy as the lesser of two evils, however all this "rah-rah GO RUDY!" crap is just disgusting. We need to stop the rah-rah-ing and start holidng this worthless, corrupt pandering politicians to account. I don't see one "rah-rah" worthy candidate in the whole lot of them. None are inspiring and all have their ways they can destroy this country in one way or another, whether by being soft on terrorism or completely liberal in cultural issues or completely soft on illegal immigration.

I probably came across harsh in my first few posts, but it was just a reaction to all the "GO RUDY!" posts that I am seeing. So he put out a policy statement. Big freaking deal. Let's hear what he has to say about CAIR and MSA and the issues with the Hezb'Allah supporters here in Dearborn and in Windsor, ON, Canada. Let's hear what he has to say about understanding Islam and political Islam and its threat to the world. When a candidate comes out and states their understanding of the threat of political Islam and the need to abolish it, THEN I will stand up and cheer and rah-rah. Until then... this is all just political pandering and positioning themselves for votes.

342 BeerForMyHorses  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:51:07pm

re: #326 Malatrope

re: #312 Ginn

I wish we had a candidate with Rudy's attitude, Mitt's looks, Fred's presence, McCain's connections, Newt's brains, and Duncan's policies.

Hell, yeh.

343 Yankee Division Son  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:51:22pm

re: #317 paxnhymn

lol... but have you listened to Obama for example? He's a great public speaker, you have to give him credit. The queasy feeling in the pit of your stomach only happens when you listen to what he's actually saying.

344 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:52:14pm

re: #326 Malatrope

Sorry, but I'm not running.

345 madmama  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:52:19pm

#341
Rudy's just getting warmed up!

346 BeerForMyHorses  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:52:20pm

re: #339 republic

re: #312 Ginn


re: #294 BeerForMyHorses

re: #21 DesertSage
I liked Fred until he hired Spencer Abraham as his campaign directer.

Here's what Paul Sperry has to say about Spencer Abraham in his book Infiltration:
"Before joining the Bush administration, Abraham served in the Senate, where he sponsored the Senate version of Campbell's bill to repeal secret evidence against illegal Arab aliens. Likewise, the Republican raked in a lot of campaign cash from pro-terrorist donors during his tenure in the Senate representing Michigan. He hauled in fifty-five hundred dollars alone from ...Muslim activists implicated in the Safa group investigation."


When Fred hired Abraham... that was it for me.
Fred's dead, baby. Fred's dead.

How much money have the Clintons taken from Arab donors, maybe, $100 million over the past 15 years?

Trust me, I am not voting for Shrillary.

347 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:52:20pm
348 easy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:52:29pm

re: #326 Malatrope

re: #312 Ginn

I wish we had a candidate with Rudy's attitude, Mitt's looks, Fred's presence, McCain's connections, Newt's brains, and Duncan's policies.


I will not run, and if drafted will not serve.

349 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:52:52pm

re: Fred's Dead.

LOTS of time. 5 months before anyone votes. I know if you're the punditocracy, every day seems like the last, but

Lots of time for things to change.
As I said last week, Thompson-Guiliani is something I could get behind and push.

350 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:52:54pm

re: #342 BeerForMyHorses

Unfortunately, I think they call that an "oligarchy".

351 tblot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:53:01pm

He has my vote. We just cannot back down to these crazy people the democrates have no problem with

352 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:53:26pm

re: #344 hiker

I knew somebody was going to say that!
/grin

353 BeerForMyHorses  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:53:47pm

re: #340 Killian Bundy

Oh, and by the way, Spencer Abraham is not Fred's campaign manager.

/so, like, give it a rest

Source, please.

354 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:54:02pm

If anyone believes that either Hillary or Barack Hussein would be better than Rudy,

Good grief!

355 panamahat  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:54:18pm

re: #295 lennysquiggy

I LOVE this.

" If you've grown tired of the current administration's failure to stand up for itself in the face of liberal lies and distortions, then Rudy is your man. Just read his foreign policy statement - he states his intentions clearly and then follows through."

And here's the whole thing (2008) in a nutshell.

"It's about Islamism, stupid."

356 pink freud  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:54:24pm

re: #324 Noam Sayin'

Hi Noam! :-)

I sit back and read it all, but I do have to verify for myself most of the time.

357 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:55:01pm

re: #349 mondoreb

Ding-ding-ding! EXACTLY!

Just the ticket to defeat Hillary/Obama.

358 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:55:17pm

I'm going to address this once again. Rudy is speaking directly to the "Realists."

A realistic peace is not a peace to be achieved by embracing the "realist" school of foreign policy thought. That doctrine defines America's interests too narrowly and avoids attempts to reform the international system according to our values.

The Realists include this man, John Mearsheimer. The author of book,

Israel Lobby."

This book purports the theory that the Israeli Lobby shapes our foreign policy to the detriment of the United States.

359 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:55:32pm

re: #353 BeerForMyHorses

as of 8-8-07
[Link: weblog.signonsandiego.com...]

360 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:56:19pm

re: #353 BeerForMyHorses

I believe Fred dumped him shortly after the blogosphere erupted. Unfortunately, I can either try to follow this turbocharged thread or look for sources. Somebody else will oblige, though.

361 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:56:20pm

re: #340 Killian Bundy

Oh, and by the way, Spencer Abraham is not Fred's campaign manager.

/so, like, give it a rest

I disliked fred before that.

362 Catttt  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:57:03pm

Gosh, it has been one of those days!

"What is this - hell week?" ~Private Benjamin

Good night, y'all. This day has been tooo long.

363 Mike McDaniel  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:57:14pm

A mostA impressive piece. I disagree on the military force structure - with the unpredictability of the post-Cold War world, the Navy and Marine Corps are worth far more than land-based forces - but the policy is dead on.

To be honest, this has been one of the problems of the Bush administration. They swallowed whole the notion that democracy is an instinct, and all that was necessary for the victory of democracy was to defeat dictators. Their model was France in 1944. Unfortunately, the world turned out to be more like Germany and Japan in 1945. Order had to be established first, and wasn't.

Like him or not (and I don't on social issues), Rudy gets this.

364 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:57:39pm

re: #362 Cattt

hahahaha "Hell Week"!

365 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:58:16pm

re: #363 Mike McDaniel

Democracy requires cultural institutions. For some reason, Bush et. al. conveniently neglected to address that problem.

366 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:58:28pm

re: #352 Malatrope

re: #344 hiker

I knew somebody was going to say that!
/grin

:)

367 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:58:47pm

re: #362 Cattt

Gosh, it has been one of those days!

"What is this - hell week?" ~Private Benjamin

Good night, y'all. This day has been tooo long.

Good night Cattt :)

368 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:59:19pm

re: #353 BeerForMyHorses


Oh, and by the way, Spencer Abraham is not Fred's campaign manager.

/so, like, give it a rest


Source, please.

Fred Thompson campaign manager

The former Tennessee senator and still-unofficial candidate for the 2008 Republican presidential nomination announced on Wednesday that veteran Republican strategist Bill Lacy will head up his campaign which is expected to become official sometime after Labor Day.

So, please stop spreading lies.

/remember, Debbie Schlussel is about as reliable as DEBKA

369 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:59:38pm

If you're gonna swing some Dem votes you have to address "social" issues.

370 BeerForMyHorses  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:59:47pm

re: #359 mondoreb

re: #353 BeerForMyHorses

as of 8-8-07
[Link: weblog.signonsandiego.com...]

Well then, I guess he saw the backlash and made a swift retreat from the dhimmi. Good for him.

371 panamahat  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 7:59:57pm

re: #304 stevieray

Got it this time.

Thanks.

372 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:00:16pm

re: #368 Killian Bundy

Heh.

373 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:00:25pm

re: #368 Killian Bundy

re: #353 BeerForMyHorses


Oh, and by the way, Spencer Abraham is not Fred's campaign manager./so, like, give it a rest

Source, please.
Fred Thompson campaign manager
The former Tennessee senator and still-unofficial candidate for the 2008 Republican presidential nomination announced on Wednesday that veteran Republican strategist Bill Lacy will head up his campaign which is expected to become official sometime after Labor Day.
So, please stop spreading lies.

/remember, Debbie Schlussel is about as reliable as DEBKA

No one is "spreading lies."

This is a discussion.

374 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:00:25pm

re: #340 Killian Bundy

Sorry, Killian. I will not give him a break. He damned well had to know just who he was, and who he was the lap dog of. That he appointed him in the first place speaks volumes.

That was not an unknown, and if he, personally, did not have him thoroughly vetted, then he is a fool.

375 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:00:36pm

re: #368 Killian Bundy

So, please stop spreading lies.

I don't think he's spreading lies...I just think his info was dated.

(frantically hunting for my Twinkies)

376 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:00:36pm

FDT!

NOT!

377 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:00:41pm

re: #326 Malatrope

re: #312 Ginn

I wish we had a candidate with Rudy's attitude, Mitt's looks, Fred's presence, McCain's connections, Newt's brains, and Duncan's policies.

I've had the same thought a hundred times, but...if wishes were a cold beer on a hot summer day...

378 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:01:24pm

re: #321 NY Nana


Quote from Rudy:

The election of Hamas in the Palestinian-controlled territories is a case in point. The problem there is not the lack of statehood but corrupt and unaccountable governance. The Palestinian people need decent governance first, as a prerequisite for statehood. Too much emphasis has been placed on brokering negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians — negotiations that bring up the same issues again and again. It is not in the interest of the United States, at a time when it is being threatened by Islamist terrorists, to assist the creation of another state that will support terrorism. Palestinian statehood will have to be earned.

This is exactly where he lost me. A 'palestinian' state? There never has been one; talk about giving in to terrorists, no matter how he phrases it.


Quote from NY Nana:
I was for him before he even entered the race, and now? I am furious.

Nana, I think you may have misinterpreted Rudy's words. He says that the Palestinians need decent governance before they can become a state.

379 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:01:31pm

re: #369 Ginn

If you're gonna swing some Dem votes you have to address "social" issues.


I think, honestly, that Rudy will swing many Dem votes like R Reagan did.

Maybe not that extent, but he will get a large chunk of the moderate vote.

The Dems can't win without nearly all of that vote, because their base is kook left.

380 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:02:11pm

re: #374 NY Nana

I hear you, Nana. His naming Spencer Abraham to ANYTHING took me aback.

381 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:02:15pm

re: #379 republic

Good Point!

382 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:02:20pm

re: #328 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Not to sound like a borken record, but Duncan Hunter is far more qualified, and has the correct views on all the issues.


But, again, I'll vote for anybody running against Barak Hussein or Pantsuit Stalin in November 2008.

I'm a Hunter person myself. But like you, I won't stay home..I will vote against the dems with no hesitation.

I am basically pleased looking at the Republican line up vs. the dem line up...no contest. Not even a percentage point.

383 dmh191  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:02:27pm

Giuliani...what a mensch!

384 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:02:51pm
385 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:02:52pm

The 2008 elections are shaping up to be a contest of the lesser of evils.

Do you want to go with the leftists and near-leftists who are anti-military and anti-US winning in Iraq (or prefer pretzel logic to reconcile all their positions on the war), or do you want someone who is strong on national defense and someone who will take the fight to the Islamists and deal with the threats before they become imminent.

Will that same candidate stand for everything one believes on social policy? Heck, we at LGF are all over the map on social policy, but largely have common against the Islamists and threats to the US. That we argue - to the limits that Charles finds acceptable - on a variety of social issues - shows that we're a pretty diverse bunch. Your mileage may vary on where you put the GWoT, Iraq, and Afghanistan on your list, but that you're here suggests that you think it important.

No one candidate is going to be acceptable to everyone here. Whoever comes out of the GOP is going to be a compromise - everyone on all sides of the GOP will have to concede on some issue they hold dear, just as the Democrats will do the same. The problem for the Democrats is that all their candidates largely sound the same on foreign policy - misguided and grasping at straws and unable to reconcile the need to use force to defend the country against threats - or to take the fight against those who wish us harm.

386 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:03:07pm

re: #379 republic

re: #369 Ginn

If you're gonna swing some Dem votes you have to address "social" issues.

I think, honestly, that Rudy will swing many Dem votes like R Reagan did.

Maybe not that extent, but he will get a large chunk of the moderate vote.

The Dems can't win without nearly all of that vote, because their base is kook left.

The Republicans need those Dem votes. The Republican base is coming unglued over illegal immigration.

387 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:03:52pm

re: #380 hiker

re: #374 NY Nana

I hear you, Nana. His naming Spencer Abraham to ANYTHING took me aback.

Birds of a feather...

388 BeerForMyHorses  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:04:03pm

re: #368 Killian Bundy

re: #353 BeerForMyHorses



Oh, and by the way, Spencer Abraham is not Fred's campaign manager.
/so, like, give it a rest

Source, please.

Fred Thompson campaign manager

The former Tennessee senator and still-unofficial candidate for the 2008 Republican presidential nomination announced on Wednesday that veteran Republican strategist Bill Lacy will head up his campaign which is expected to become official sometime after Labor Day.

So, please stop spreading lies.

/remember, Debbie Schlussel is about as reliable as DEBKA

First of all, I heard it on FoxNews way before Debbie S. got hold of it. Second, Mondoreb very politely gave me a source to correct my error. And last of all, you would make your point so much more eloquently if you didn't talk like a 13-yr old Valley girl. "So, like, give it a rest."

389 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:04:05pm

re: #384 cbinflux

A rogues gallery

More like a Tool's gallery

390 marwan's daughter  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:04:40pm

re: #231 tantraman

Rudy shows his true colors:


"Freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
Just what America needs - a deceitful, psychopathic authoritarian.

Not to mention the whole Donna Hanover s***. That was just nasty, and will work against him. I see no reason why he should be President. You think George Bush was bad. A Giuliani Presidency will be worse. Executive powers will go straight through the roof.

391 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:04:40pm

re: #374 NY Nana

He damned well had to know just who he was, and who he was the lap dog of. That he appointed him in the first place speaks volumes.

Except, it never [expletive deleted] happened!

/get your facts straight

392 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:04:44pm

I just hope that the Republican voters who stayed home during the 2006 elections, to "teach the Republicans a lesson" get out and vote.

That ploy ALWAYS fails, and history has clearly proven that.

393 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:05:08pm

re: #385 lawhawk

#385 lawhawk 8/15/2007 8:02:52 pm PDT reply quote report
The 2008 elections are shaping up to be a contest of the lesser of evils.

Do you want to go with the leftists and near-leftists who are anti-military and anti-US winning in Iraq (or prefer pretzel logic to reconcile all their positions on the war), or do you want someone who is strong on national defense and someone who will take the fight to the Islamists and deal with the threats before they become imminent

Great post, Lawhawk.

As I said before, if we don't win the war on terror, then eventually else will become moot.

394 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:05:46pm

Fred has waited too long.


Of the top tier candidates, Romney, while not perfect, is the best. But I guess enough people do hold the Mormonism against him, and the top story earlier on AOL was about Mitt's sons not serving in the military. I don't see Chelsea Clinton in boot camp either, but the 'sins of the children' only count against Republicans. (See also Rudy's daughter posting favorably about Barak Hussein on her home page making a splash).

Again, Rudy not my first choice, even if he is the consensus LGF favorite, but he is a better choice than any likely Demonrat nominee.


Please, even if you don't like Rudy' support of Planned Parenthood/abortion on demand, and his disregard of the Second Amendment, remember, Pantsuit Stalin and Barak Hussein will be far, far worse.

395 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:05:51pm

re: #374 NY Nana

I know what you're saying, and to a great extent I agree, but dammit I like what the guy writes, and people say Fred is the same as the characters he plays.

As far as Spencer is concerned, he was hired for a specific purpose, and not to be a cabinet member. I have been in office politics long enough to know that you don't have to like or agree with somebody you hire to be your minion. Unless I know more about the Spencer situation than I do, I hesitate to throw out somebody like Fred on the basis of this. Employees are not necessarily your friends.

The thing I sort of hold against Fred is that he didn't go public with an explanation of why he let him go. It needed more discourse.

396 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:06:33pm

re: #357 Malatrope

Upon hearing that her elderly grandfather had just passed away, Katie went straight to her grandparent's house to visit her 95-year-old grandmother and
comfort her.

When she asked how her grandfather had died, her grandmother replied "He had a heart attack while we were making love on Sunday morning."

Horrified, Katie told her grandmother that 2 people nearly 100 years old having sex would surely be asking for trouble.

"Oh no, my dear," replied granny. "Many years ago, realizing our advanced age, we figured out the best time to do it was when the church bells would start to ring. It was just the right rhythm. Nice and slow and even,
nothing too strenuous, simply "In on the Ding and Out on the Dong."

She paused to wipe away a tear, and continued, "He'd still be alive if the ice cream truck hadn't come along."

397 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:06:39pm

re: #377 bikermailman

Well, at least I can buy cold beer on a hot summer's day...got one in hand, actually.

398 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:07:04pm

re: #385 lawhawk


near-leftists

lawhawk, I'm just curious who in the Dem party, that's running, is a "near leftist"?

Bill Richardson is the only one who I don't believe is kook left, but he is a bonifide leftist, clearly, just the same.

Just curious.

399 MICHAEL in MI  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:07:05pm

re: #379 republic

I think, honestly, that Rudy will swing many Dem votes like R Reagan did.


I have only started following politics since 9/12/2001, so I am a little ignorant as to the history prior to that (though I have been working to educate myself every day since)... but how did Ronald Reagan get so much of the Democrat vote back in the 1980s when he was staunchly, unapologetically and openly anti-abortion/pro-life and stated as the goal of his Presidency to get Roe overturned (Google "Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation")?

Were Democrats more pro-life back in the 1980s and then turned pro-abortion during the 1990s?

400 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:07:27pm

re: #386 Ginn

re: #379 republic


re: #369 Ginn
The Republican base is coming unglued over illegal immigration.

Exactly the opposite. The Republican base is firmly united against illegal immigration, and it has told Bush to pound sand.

401 jayzee  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:07:47pm

I like Rudy unapologetically. I am proud to say I voted for him before and I look forward to voting for him again. In spite of his flaws I feel he has been an honest and steadfast leader. He never forgot that Staten Island helped get him elected (and they remembered and remained part of NYC), and he told the Saudis where to shove their blood money. He cleaned up a city and laid waste to organized crime. What he says I believe. I also think it's interesting that he may run against Hillary again. When they ran last time, her campaign kept saying, over and over again, that he was unfit to be senator because he could only handle the ''executive'' position and couldn't work in the legislative. Can't wait to see those words come back to haunt her.

402 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:07:50pm

re: #370 BeerForMyHorses

I think it was more the position that most Republicans don't think along the lines of stark raving ideological purity like the Dims do. They were both in the Senate at the same time and worked together. After he realized there might be some problems, he fixed it.

Think about it, if Republicans were ideological nutbags, Rudy won't have a shot and we'd be reading KOS instead of LGF.

403 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:08:13pm

re: #394 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Romney could bring us a First Wives Club

404 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:08:36pm

re: #391 Killian Bundy

re: #374 NY Nana

He damned well had to know just who he was, and who he was the lap dog of. That he appointed him in the first place speaks volumes.
Except, it never [expletive deleted] happened!

/get your facts straight

Thanks for the link, Killian.

From the link:

It seems more like Spence will be a mere campaign advisor and "ambassador" to Washington, NOT the campaign manager. According to one report in the New York Post, Thompson's campaign manager is Randy Enwright, not Abraham.

Spence is still in with Thompson's team.

405 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:09:04pm

re: #396 cbinflux

ROFLMAO!

406 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:09:14pm

re: #378 Milk Toast Intolerant

Rudy is following the US policy on Palestinians since the day the ink dried on UN SCR 242. Land for peace. Oslo should have put that to bed - especially as the Palestinians showed themselves incapable of governance and that terrorism was top priority. The second intifada in 2000, right as Israel was giving away the farm and kitchen sink to Arafat at Camp David, who turned around and didn't even provide a counteroffer , showed that the PA was uninterested in peace, but wanted everything. Their corruption showed when Hamas won the vote against Fatah, and the PA civil war showed who was boss - and that the situation isn't going to be resolved anytime soon.

407 BeerForMyHorses  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:09:44pm

re: #402 mondoreb

re: #370 BeerForMyHorses

I think it was more the position that most Republicans don't think along the lines of stark raving ideological purity like the Dims do. They were both in the Senate at the same time and worked together. After he realized there might be some problems, he fixed it.

Think about it, if Republicans were ideological nutbags, Rudy won't have a shot and we'd be reading KOS instead of LGF.

Like I said above, if he made an honest mistake, I understand.

408 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:09:58pm

re: #400 hiker

re: #386 Ginn

re: #379 republic

re: #369 Ginn
The Republican base is coming unglued over illegal immigration.
Exactly the opposite. The Republican base is firmly united against illegal immigration, and it has told Bush to pound sand.

The Republican Party has taken a beating. Contributions were down a whopping 40%.

409 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:10:31pm

re: #390 marwan's daughter

re: #231 tantraman


Rudy shows his true colors:


"Freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
Just what America needs - a deceitful, psychopathic authoritarian.

Not to mention the whole Donna Hanover s***. That was just nasty, and will work against him. I see no reason why he should be President. You think George Bush was bad. A Giuliani Presidency will be worse. Executive powers will go straight through the roof.

Uh, we have a Constitution that is a set of laws for EVERYONE to follow, and if you don't, there are consequences.


Hillary and Obama would be infinitly worse, to the point of the destruction of America.

Hillary and Obama both, don't believe in the U.S. Constitution, period, they believe in the absloute power of the kook left.

410 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:10:38pm

re: #403 cbinflux

re: #394 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Romney could bring us a First Wives Club

Romney is still on his first and only wife.

411 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:11:00pm

re: #394 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Please, even if you don't like Rudy' support of Planned Parenthood/abortion on demand, and his disregard of the Second Amendment, remember, Pantsuit Stalin and Barak Hussein will be far, far worse.

I don't think it's us you have to convince of that, Ed. It's going to be The large number of evangelicals, Catholics, and NRA types that you'll have to convince. I'm completely on board with your attitude, even though I have problems with him on those exact issues.

412 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:11:06pm

re: #407 BeerForMyHorses

Hey!
You gotta like someone with a nic that would bring out PETA protesters in force!

413 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:11:08pm

re: #399 MICHAEL in MI

re: #379 republic


I think, honestly, that Rudy will swing many Dem votes like R Reagan did.

I have only started following politics since 9/12/2001, so I am a little ignorant as to the history prior to that (though I have been working to educate myself every day since)... but how did Ronald Reagan get so much of the Democrat vote back in the 1980s when he was staunchly, unapologetically and openly anti-abortion/pro-life and stated as the goal of his Presidency to get Roe overturned (Google "Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation")?

Were Democrats more pro-life back in the 1980s and then turned pro-abortion during the 1990s?

Two words,

Jimmy Carter

414 Thanos  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:11:19pm

re: #391 Killian Bundy

re: #374 NY Nana


He damned well had to know just who he was, and who he was the lap dog of. That he appointed him in the first place speaks volumes.

Except, it never [expletive deleted] happened!

/get your facts straight


Ok folks we are conservatives, not a bunch of Emos... settle down, play nice as Obi Wan said.

Killian from your link:

It seems more like Spence will be a mere campaign advisor and "ambassador" to Washington, NOT the campaign manager.

Still on the staff, so not much difference to me.

415 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:11:25pm

re: #398 republic

Benefit of doubt.

That and being courteous. Raising the level of political discourse and all that jazz. /

416 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:11:31pm

re: #388 BeerForMyHorses

Sorry, but it pisses me off. It's like a pathetic game of telephone, still erroneously circulating a month after the first bogus rumor started.

/Spencer Abraham was never Fred's campaign manager

417 BeerForMyHorses  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:11:58pm

re: #391 Killian Bundy

You don't need to get so snarky.

418 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:12:06pm

re: #411 bikermailman

re: #394 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Please, even if you don't like Rudy' support of Planned Parenthood/abortion on demand, and his disregard of the Second Amendment, remember, Pantsuit Stalin and Barak Hussein will be far, far worse.
I don't think it's us you have to convince of that, Ed. It's going to be The large number of evangelicals, Catholics, and NRA types that you'll have to convince. I'm completely on board with your attitude, even though I have problems with him on those exact issues.

I'm Catholic. I have no problem with Rudy.

419 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:12:26pm

re: #397 Malatrope

re: #377 bikermailman

Well, at least I can buy cold beer on a hot summer's day...got one in hand, actually.

Just mixin' my metaphors...making new ones up, actually... :P

420 marwan's daughter  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:12:35pm

re: #409 republic

re: #390 marwan's daughter

re: #231 tantraman

Rudy shows his true colors:


"Freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
Just what America needs - a deceitful, psychopathic authoritarian.

Not to mention the whole Donna Hanover s***. That was just nasty, and will work against him. I see no reason why he should be President. You think George Bush was bad. A Giuliani Presidency will be worse. Executive powers will go straight through the roof.
Uh, we have a Constitution that is a set of laws for EVERYONE to follow, and if you don't, there are consequences.

Yes, but he probably wants a stronger Federal government just like the Demokrats do. Basically I'm worried because he is Demokrat lite.

421 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:12:36pm

re: #410 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

It'll come to you...

422 BeerForMyHorses  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:13:10pm

re: #412 mondoreb

It's a Toby Keith song.

423 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:13:17pm

re: #416 Killian Bundy

Thanks for the links, killian, i hadn't heard this. If it's true, I feel better.

424 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:13:36pm

Lizardoids are a Spirited bunch tonight on the Rudy thread!

425 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:13:45pm

re: #395 Malatrope

My concern about the Spencer Abraham thing (I'm not an Abraham fan, anyway) was that he brought him on board and must have known it would raise eyebrows; and, if he didn't know that, he's not paying attention. I like Fred, but I thought his Abraham appointment was a mistake.

426 stuck in california  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:14:00pm

re: #422 BeerForMyHorses
heh...

427 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:14:05pm

re: #420 marwan's daughter


Yes, but he probably wants a stronger Federal government just like the Demokrats do. Basically I'm worried because he is Demokrat lite.

Stronger Federal Government?

Like how?

428 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:14:22pm

re: #422 BeerForMyHorses

I met Toby Keith one night in Wheeling, WV after a concert in the early 90s. He was lighter then.

429 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:14:30pm

re: #424 mondoreb

Lizardoids are a Spirited bunch tonight on the Rudy thread!

I thought you were Rudy'd out?

430 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:14:35pm

re: #419 bikermailman

Where do you think "Malatrope" came from? :)

431 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:14:41pm

re: #415 lawhawk

re: #398 republic

Benefit of doubt.

That and being courteous. Raising the level of political discourse and all that jazz. /


I'm a little less concerned about being courteous, and much more concerned about the possible death of the USA.

It is that serious, and history will prove it.

In a large way, it already has.

432 BeerForMyHorses  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:15:26pm

re: #423 Malatrope

re: #416 Killian Bundy

Thanks for the links, killian, i hadn't heard this. If it's true, I feel better.

What did Twain say? A lie travels half way around the world before the truth has a chance to put its pants on?

433 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:15:30pm

KB
WADR, That article was full of speculation and conjecture. The title itself was a question.

434 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:15:30pm

re: #404 Ginn

It seems more like Spence will be a mere campaign advisor and "ambassador" to Washington, NOT the campaign manager. According to one report in the New York Post, Thompson's campaign manager is Randy Enwright, not Abraham.


Spence is still in with Thompson's team.

Well, apparently, that New York Post quote is wrong too.

/because Bill Lacy is his campaign manager

435 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:15:34pm

re: #428 mondoreb

re: #422 BeerForMyHorses

I met Toby Keith one night in Wheeling, WV after a concert in the early 90s. He was lighter then.

Toby Keith Lite?

/I read it too fast the first time. I thought you wrote, "He was whiter then."

436 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:15:39pm

re: #378 Milk Toast Intolerant

I have friends in Israel who were born here, and they are taking it the same way I did..create a state for them, then ,when they never had one to begin with? Over my dead body. Their own arab friends in a land mass that makes tiny Israel a dot on the map would not take their brethren in. Look at what is happening now in Israel, after the heart-breaking expulsions of Jews from Jewish land 2 years ago, and still goes on...

Sorry, but the mere mention of giving any part of Israel to them enrages me. Too many innocent Jews have already died.

437 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:15:41pm

re: #429 Ginn

I thought you were Rudy'd out?

Oh heck...just when you think no one's paying ANY attention...

438 bosforus  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:15:43pm

re: #418 Ginn

agreed, somethings are more important than abortion. like, say, national security.

439 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:16:05pm

re: #406 lawhawk


Rudy is following the US policy on Palestinians since the day the ink dried on UN SCR 242. Land for peace. Oslo should have put that to bed - especially as the Palestinians showed themselves incapable of governance and that terrorism was top priority. The second intifada in 2000, right as Israel was giving away the farm and kitchen sink to Arafat at Camp David, who turned around and didn't even provide a counteroffer , showed that the PA was uninterested in peace, but wanted everything. Their corruption showed when Hamas won the vote against Fatah, and the PA civil war showed who was boss - and that the situation isn't going to be resolved anytime soon.

His words in this essay suggest he strongly loathes the current US policy concerning the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. What evidence is there to suggest that he will toe the line?

440 BeerForMyHorses  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:16:09pm

re: #426 stuck in california

Hey.

441 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:16:21pm

re: #413 republic

re: #399 MICHAEL in MI


re: #379 republic

I think, honestly, that Rudy will swing many Dem votes like R Reagan did.

I have only started following politics since 9/12/2001, so I am a little ignorant as to the history prior to that (though I have been working to educate myself every day since)... but how did Ronald Reagan get so much of the Democrat vote back in the 1980s when he was staunchly, unapologetically and openly anti-abortion/pro-life and stated as the goal of his Presidency to get Roe overturned (Google "Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation")?
Were Democrats more pro-life back in the 1980s and then turned pro-abortion during the 1990s?

Two words,

Jimmy Carter

That, and the fact that yellow dog Democrats in the South, and blue collar types in the Northeast, who had conservative lifestyles despite voting Democrat, began to realize that the party had 'left' them.

442 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:16:28pm

re: #434 Killian Bundy

re: #404 Ginn

It seems more like Spence will be a mere campaign advisor and "ambassador" to Washington, NOT the campaign manager. According to one report in the New York Post, Thompson's campaign manager is Randy Enwright, not Abraham.

Spence is still in with Thompson's team.Well, apparently, that New York Post quote is wrong too.

/because Bill Lacy is his campaign manager

lol! Poor Killian!

Thanks for straightening us out!

443 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:16:34pm

re: #421 cbinflux

re: #410 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

It'll come to you...


If that is a reference to LDS, while they have some bizarre theology, their 'prophet' had a 'divine revelation' when the Mormon polygamy issue was stopping Utah's attempt at statehood, and only a few splinter LDS groups still permit polygamy.

444 HR Guy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:16:55pm

re: #303 easy

Tsunami warning since Ed's not around.

Hawaii

We have a church planted on the coast of Honduras, not more than 10 feet of elevation and a couple of miles from the shore. Honduras seems a bit out of the warning zone, but we're making calls to see if our missionary there can move people inland. It's so remote, and the phone service is so spotty...

If anyone is inclined to pray, I would covet your prayers now. Thanks.

445 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:16:59pm

re: #438 bosforus

re: #418 Ginn

agreed, somethings are more important than abortion. like, say, national security.

Did you forget your sarc tag?

446 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:17:11pm

re: #403 cbinflux

re: #394 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Romney could bring us a First Wives Club

What does that mean?

447 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:17:11pm

re: #428 mondoreb

The wife and I had beers with him in Key West three nights in a row. Quite a pleasant surprise.

448 Challenger  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:17:24pm

Excellent reasoning by Rudy. I am impressed.

449 OldLineTexan  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:17:26pm

re: #411 bikermailman

re: #394 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet


Please, even if you don't like Rudy' support of Planned Parenthood/abortion on demand, and his disregard of the Second Amendment, remember, Pantsuit Stalin and Barak Hussein will be far, far worse.

I don't think it's us you have to convince of that, Ed. It's going to be The large number of evangelicals, Catholics, and NRA types that you'll have to convince. I'm completely on board with your attitude, even though I have problems with him on those exact issues.

I'm an evangelical NRA type, and there is not a Democrat in the race that I would vote for, based on (a) their record (b) their stated positions (c) their hair and (d) their relatives.

OldLineTexan

450 jayzee  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:17:43pm

re: #321 NY Nana


Nana-I understand you entirely, I don't even like saying "Palestinian" in regards to Arabs because it perpetuates the lie, however, their myth has now been accepted as reality sadly. I think Rudy's stance is the best we can hope for now (especially since the Israelis have already accepted the "Palestinians" too). Rudy is on to something IMHO, make them show a sustained willingness to live in peace, then give them a state. I have a better chance of winning People's "Sexiest Man Alive" next year then the Arabs do of showing a sustained good governance in Judea and Samaria.

451 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:17:47pm

re: #425 hiker

So do I (think it was a mistake). But note my comments above about "using" employees. It's not like he's his wife, or anything. Any organization has to function with sub-optimal components.

Yeah, I'm making excuses for Fred. On this issue, he should make his own excuses. I would have like to hear him say something about it, since it was such a shitstorm on the blogosphere. Fred is normally more web-savvy than that. Which makes me wonder...

(and that wonder is what he should be dispelling)

452 Thanos  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:17:56pm

Way off topic, I've got a Pak Update up: In the Wake of Independence.

And we've got a new assault going on in Tora Bora:

US offensive in Tora Bora

BAGRAMI: Hundreds of US-led troops have launched an offensive against Al Qaeda and Taliban in eastern Afghanistan, officials said on Wednesday.

The offensive involved ground troops and airstrikes in Tora Bora and targeted “hundreds of foreign fighters” who were using dug-in fighting positions, said coalition spokeswoman Capt Vanessa Bowman. There were no immediate reports of casualties among militants or US and Afghan troops.

What's interesting to me is the timing -- the Pak army just rolled into the frontiers of Pak bigtime the past two weeks, and now we are assaulting TB again. Hammer and Anvil revisited, and just who are we bombing in Tora Bora?
Bill Roggio's got more here.

453 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:18:08pm

re: #444 HR Guy

re: #303 easy

Tsunami warning since Ed's not around.

Hawaii

We have a church planted on the coast of Honduras, not more than 10 feet of elevation and a couple of miles from the shore. Honduras seems a bit out of the warning zone, but we're making calls to see if our missionary there can move people inland. It's so remote, and the phone service is so spotty...

If anyone is inclined to pray, I would covet your prayers now. Thanks.

Be glad too. My thoughts and prayers are with the people in the Honduras. Hope they remain safe and sound.

454 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:18:24pm

re: #447 cbinflux

beats my one beer and giving him my table because there weren't any others left. Was that before he smacked down the Chix?

455 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:18:38pm

re: #432 BeerForMyHorses

Which is exactly why all of us post in our pajamas.

456 easy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:18:41pm

re: #390 marwan's daughter

You think George Bush was bad. A Giuliani Presidency will be worse. Executive powers will go straight through the roof.


No, certainly not for the paranoid fears of the left.

457 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:18:45pm

re: #395 Malatrope

Ronald Reagan is the only actual actor who I could ever accept as President...and when you think of it? All politicians are actors...I just do not feel that Thompson is the best choice, nor did I before the Spencer Abrams kerfuffle.

458 hrhamilton  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:18:52pm

Intelligence in government. What a novel concept.

459 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:18:52pm

Come on folks, we all know that if it's between Hillarrhea and Rudy we're all going to vote for Rudy, and we'll be dragging everyone we know to the polls to do the same.

460 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:18:55pm

Geez Fred, just do it.

/then maybe we can get all this crap straightened out once and for all

461 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:18:56pm

re: #420 marwan's daughter


Yes, but he probably wants a stronger Federal government just like the Demokrats do. Basically I'm worried because he is Demokrat lite.

There isn't one Dem candidate who is really for the rule of law in this country(U.S. Constitution), they all want us paying 50-75% in taxes, not one of them, including Richardson, even remotely believes in the 2nd Amendment, Richardson showed his true colors in the YouTube debates, the Dems will sink this country into a socialist nightmare, not including the fact that the Dems don't have the slightest clue as to how to protect this country, because not one of them even really believes there is a serious islamofascist terrorist problem.

I could go on and on, but the Dems are the closest thing to total socialist rule, then have ever been in this country, hands down.

462 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:19:09pm
463 MICHAEL in MI  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:19:55pm

re: #413 republic

Two words,

Jimmy Carter


Hmmm, if that is true, that is kinda scary. Will the same question be asked 20 years from now about how Hillary got so much of the Republican vote in 2008 and someone will say "two words: George Bush"?

Hopefully, it will be the other way around and people will ask "how did (GOP Winner of 2008 Election) get so much of the Dem vote... two words: Hillary Clinton".

:)

464 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:20:05pm

re: #452 Thanos

and B. Hussein Obama wants to bomb a country that regularly celebrate Independence Day.
Bad form.

465 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:20:43pm

re: #391 Killian Bundy

re: #374 NY Nana

He damned well had to know just who he was, and who he was the lap dog of. That he appointed him in the first place speaks volumes.

Except, it never [expletive deleted] happened!

/get your facts straight

Killian Bundy,

I understand your enthusiastic support for Fred, but it might be more practical to win fellow lizards over with a courteous response instead of alienating them with posts filled with condescension.

466 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:20:46pm
It seems more like Spence will be a mere campaign advisor and "ambassador" to Washington, NOT the campaign manager.

This does bother me and I would like Fred to address it. Nothing wrong with being critical of associations. NOTHING at all wrong with it.

I don't dislike Fred either, He has just got some answering to do just like any other candidate.

About Rudy, he does have some policy issues that I'm not all that fond of or really satisfied with his answers or heard enough maybe. With that said, his particular skeletons in his closet don't concern me all that much. He seems contrite about what happened with his divorce and yes, it was ugly but life typically isn't pretty. Who am I to judge his heart especially when he admits his wrongdoing? I can of course judge his actions but he seems apologetic and says he should have handled it better. Should I still beat him up? Most Christians I know hearing the discussion he gave on this, would have forgiven it I think.

Myself, I already stated that Hunter is my favorite candidate, but Hunter also needs to realize that part of being Presidential is getting out there more and realizing how to work the system. His campaign needs to realize he won't be the media darling so they must work 500 times harder. Being President is more than just having the policy right. But for now, since it is SO early in the game, I stand by him and his values and his ability to be a good leader.

We really need to be careful about putting Rudy up on a pedestal..or ANYONE for that matter. They are only human...and humans will always let us down.

467 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:21:04pm

re: #418 Ginn

re: #411 bikermailman


re: #394 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet
Please, even if you don't like Rudy' support of Planned Parenthood/abortion on demand, and his disregard of the Second Amendment, remember, Pantsuit Stalin and Barak Hussein will be far, far worse.
I don't think it's us you have to convince of that, Ed. It's going to be The large number of evangelicals, Catholics, and NRA types that you'll have to convince. I'm completely on board with your attitude, even though I have problems with him on those exact issues.

I'm Catholic. I have no problem with Rudy.

From what I understand, there's a large Catholic anti abortion crowd.

468 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:21:08pm

re: #417 BeerForMyHorses

You don't need to get so snarky.

Oh really?

/what if I want to?

469 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:21:32pm

re: #449 OldLineTexan

re: #411 bikermailman


re: #394 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Please, even if you don't like Rudy' support of Planned Parenthood/abortion on demand, and his disregard of the Second Amendment, remember, Pantsuit Stalin and Barak Hussein will be far, far worse.

I don't think it's us you have to convince of that, Ed. It's going to be The large number of evangelicals, Catholics, and NRA types that you'll have to convince. I'm completely on board with your attitude, even though I have problems with him on those exact issues.

I'm an evangelical NRA type, and there is not a Democrat in the race that I would vote for, based on (a) their record (b) their stated positions (c) their hair and (d) their relatives.

OldLineTexan


Here, here!

Bravo!

470 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:21:42pm

re: #467 bikermailman

re: #418 Ginn

re: #411 bikermailman

re: #394 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet
Please, even if you don't like Rudy' support of Planned Parenthood/abortion on demand, and his disregard of the Second Amendment, remember, Pantsuit Stalin and Barak Hussein will be far, far worse.
I don't think it's us you have to convince of that, Ed. It's going to be The large number of evangelicals, Catholics, and NRA types that you'll have to convince. I'm completely on board with your attitude, even though I have problems with him on those exact issues.

I'm Catholic. I have no problem with Rudy.
From what I understand, there's a large Catholic anti abortion crowd.

Like the ones that vote for Ted Kennedy?

471 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:21:53pm

re: #443 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Maybe it won't come to you.

There was this movie by that name.
IF Romney were to take more wives, they's ALL be First Wives (Ladies)

BTW, as reported on PrimeTime this very evening, it's a lot more mainstream than you'd guess. They reckon that portrayal of them in Big Love is accurate.

472 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:22:51pm

re: #451 Malatrope

Yes, Fred handled it poorly. Hopefully he learned something out of it.

473 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:22:53pm

re: #422 BeerForMyHorses

re: #412 mondoreb

It's a Toby Keith song.

One of my favorites too!

474 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:23:34pm

re: #457 NY Nana

Nana, I refer you to my #326.
We can fine-tune the Republican side as much as we like, but the fact of the matter is that yet again we are putting fingers in the dike to prevent being destroyed by the Democrats. We may argue back and forth amongst ourselves, but the fact of the matter is, we must defeat Hillary.

I do actually believe that Rudy is the only one who can do that, as much as I'd rather listen to Fred on the radio.

475 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:23:42pm

re: #471 cbinflux

re: #443 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Maybe it won't come to you.

There was this movie by that name.
IF Romney were to take more wives, they's ALL be First Wives (Ladies)

BTW, as reported on PrimeTime this very evening, it's a lot more mainstream than you'd guess. They reckon that portrayal of them in Big Love is accurate.

I watched part of that Primetime. I kept thinking... why are they allowing the cameras in now?

That guy... two wives... nine kids.

Thank God I'm not married to him.

476 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:23:49pm

This is the REAL reason I'd vote for Rudy

477 BeerForMyHorses  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:23:49pm

re: #455 Malatrope

LOL. Well, now that I've managed to sidetrack the conversation onto Spencer Abraham and Toby Keith, I need to go.

Goodnight, Lizards. Play nice.

478 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:24:06pm

re: #463 MICHAEL in MI

re: #413 republic


Two words,
Jimmy Carter

Hmmm, if that is true, that is kinda scary. Will the same question be asked 20 years from now about how Hillary got so much of the Republican vote in 2008 and someone will say "two words: George Bush"?

Hopefully, it will be the other way around and people will ask "how did (GOP Winner of 2008 Election) get so much of the Dem vote... two words: Hillary Clinton".

:)

That is the one thing that the Democrats keep forgetting,

George Bush is not running.

You are correct, "Hillary Clinton" will be the proper answer.

479 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:24:28pm

re: #396 cbinflux

OMG, that was funny.

How ya doin' cbinflux?

480 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:24:46pm

re: #460 Killian Bundy

I do agree: Fred has waited too long. If he gets in, he will not win the nomination. He may actually decide not to run, after all (unlikely, but possible).

481 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:24:56pm

re: #462 song_and_dance_man

Right on!
IS HE BLACK ENUFF?!
//

482 rorschach  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:25:07pm

I don't agree with him on everything, but Rudy is the only one in both fields who thinks like a president.

483 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:25:25pm

re: #465 Milk Toast Intolerant

I understand your enthusiastic support for Fred, but it might be more practical to win fellow lizards over with a courteous response instead of alienating them with posts filled with condescension.

Who said I was a Fred supporter? I'm just getting sick of this misconception being reposted thread after thread.

/thanks for the advice Dear Abby, but I am what I am

484 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:25:45pm

re: #461 republic

The Democrats are rank Communists. That is a fact, in the 21st century, no matter how much they deny it.

485 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:25:59pm

re: #470 Ginn

re: #467 bikermailman


re: #418 Ginn
re: #411 bikermailman

re: #394 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet
Please, even if you don't like Rudy' support of Planned Parenthood/abortion on demand, and his disregard of the Second Amendment, remember, Pantsuit Stalin and Barak Hussein will be far, far worse.
I don't think it's us you have to convince of that, Ed. It's going to be The large number of evangelicals, Catholics, and NRA types that you'll have to convince. I'm completely on board with your attitude, even though I have problems with him on those exact issues.

I'm Catholic. I have no problem with Rudy.
From what I understand, there's a large Catholic anti abortion crowd.

Like the ones that vote for Ted Kennedy?


My extended family are mostly sexist, racist, homophobic, gun toting Democrat voters, and all but one have flat out said they won't vote for either Hillary or Barack Hussein.

They really are sick to their stomachs, and they groan anytime the issue is brought up.

486 Thanos  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:26:24pm

re: #460 Killian Bundy

Geez Fred, just do it.

/then maybe we can get all this crap straightened out once and for all

Killian you are a friend so I hate to put this speculation forth -- but I'm beginning to believe that both Newt and Fred are playing "stump the chumps". They are out there raising cash - for campaigns that won't happen. The cash will go to congressional elections. We've seen that happen before, and the Republicans aren't raising cash for congressional campaigns very well in other places... We all know it's needed, don't know if I can stomach democrats in total control of congress much longer.

487 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:27:52pm

re: #471 cbinflux

re: #443 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Maybe it won't come to you.

There was this movie by that name.
IF Romney were to take more wives, they's ALL be First Wives (Ladies)

BTW, as reported on PrimeTime this very evening, it's a lot more mainstream than you'd guess. They reckon that portrayal of them in Big Love is accurate.


YOU ARE WRONG!

488 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:27:53pm

re: #485 republic

My extended family are mostly sexist, racist, homophobic, gun toting Democrat voters, and all but one have flat out said they won't vote for either Hillary or Barack Hussein.

They really are sick to their stomachs, and they groan anytime the issue is brought up.

Hey. Good news for Rudy.

489 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:28:19pm

re: #477 BeerForMyHorses

Good night, beer bringer. I'm out too.
/carry on, all

490 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:28:34pm

re: #404 Ginn

Thanks for that..

This article is still one that gets to me..why the hell is he still on the team? He is a POS.

Sorry, Killian! I still ♥ you. BTW, the NY Post, under Murdoch, is not the same lately. I don't know if it his wavering back and forth on Shrillary, or the influence of his young wife.

491 hiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:28:46pm

Well, my friends, it's off to bed for me. Y'all take care.

492 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:28:46pm

re: #487 newsjunkie_ky

re: #471 cbinflux

re: #443 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Maybe it won't come to you.

There was this movie by that name.
IF Romney were to take more wives, they's ALL be First Wives (Ladies)

BTW, as reported on PrimeTime this very evening, it's a lot more mainstream than you'd guess. They reckon that portrayal of them in Big Love is accurate.


YOU ARE WRONG!

Which part?

493 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:28:54pm

OT

BNA's high temp of 40° and MEM's high of 41° may not be as hot as tomorrows! Texas style heat in Tennessee!


Pretty picture (different from the usual tropical tie-dye loops) loop of Tropical Storm Erin, finally trying to intensify after just chilling all evening.


Also pretty loop of almost Hurricane Dean, which may miss South Florida after all and menace Louisiana or even Texas in a week, possibly as a major hurricane.

494 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:29:04pm

re: #484 Malatrope

re: #461 republic

The Democrats are rank Communists. That is a fact, in the 21st century, no matter how much they deny it.


I think they want to go way, way beyond communism.

495 harley2002  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:29:18pm

He has got what it takes to win. Just has to keep his powder dry and watch out for his enemies like the New York Slimes. Billary could behead an infant and the press would ignore it. Rudie's dog could fart and Pinch a Loaf would have it front page at the Slimes.

496 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:29:38pm

re: #470 Ginn

HA!

497 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:29:57pm

re: #238 mondoreb

re: #224 squarepeg


John Edwards, in the same issue of Foreign Affairs.

Engaging the world
Declining popularity
Talking to the UN
Our allies in NATO

This isn't foreign policy, this is something you read at night to your kids, like Jack and the Beanstalk.

Haha, I just went to close the tab where I had pasted the link from and unavoidably beheld his opening lines. It reads like a Keanu Reeves movie trailer voiceover.

At the dawn . . .
(hot-orange sun piercing a blanket of purple clouds on an endless horizon)

of a new century . . .
(the earth turning on its axis, quick zoom into an urban landscape)

and on the brink . . .
(closeup of Himself)

of a new presidency . . .
(quick pan to a wide shot of the White House, zoom back to Himself, striding purposefully through a pair of great doors)

498 Malatrope  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:30:11pm

re: #494 republic

Yeah. That's what my guns are for.
/nite all

499 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:30:22pm

re: #436 NY Nana

I have friends in Israel who were born here, and they are taking it the same way I did..create a state for them, then ,when they never had one to begin with? Over my dead body. Their own arab friends in a land mass that makes tiny Israel a dot on the map would not take their brethren in. Look at what is happening now in Israel, after the heart-breaking expulsions of Jews from Jewish land 2 years ago, and still goes on...

Sorry, but the mere mention of giving any part of Israel to them enrages me. Too many innocent Jews have already died.

Maybe I'm interpreting Rudy's words incorrectly, but it seems to me he wants the Palestinians to have decent governance before he would even consider supporting the international plan to give them a state. That would be quite a feat for Hamas, Fatah, and the every day Palestinians, in my judgment. Their lust for Jewish blood is too great, and I don't see that happening anytime soon. Reward of statehood will follow progress, not the other way around as is the current motto.

500 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:30:50pm

re: #454 mondoreb

Summer, ~ three years ago. He just happened to enjoy the same outdoor bar. Just a nice, regular guy.

501 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:31:19pm

re: #465 Milk Toast Intolerant

Killian is Killian...he is a friend, honest! However, I do not think he could post if someone came in and stole his / key during the night. :)

502 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:31:21pm

re: #490 NY Nana


#490 NY Nana 8/15/2007 8:28:34 pm PDT reply quote report
re: #404 Ginn

Thanks for that..
This article is still one that gets to me..why the hell is he still on the team? He is a POS.

I liked Fred until this happened. No more Fred for me.

503 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:31:34pm

Hey MTI

Okay, but I've been better.

504 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:31:42pm

re: #485 republic

My extended family are mostly sexist, racist, homophobic, gun toting Democrat voters

Why do they consider themselves democrats? Is it for the welfare?

505 tblot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:32:04pm

re: #479 Milk Toast Intolerant

YES THAT WAS

506 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:32:06pm

re: #486 Thanos

/at worst, I think he'd make a great VP candidate

507 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:32:10pm

re: #475 Ginn

re: #471 cbinflux


re: #443 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Maybe it won't come to you.

There was this movie by that name.
IF Romney were to take more wives, they's ALL be First Wives (Ladies)

BTW, as reported on PrimeTime this very evening, it's a lot more mainstream than you'd guess. They reckon that portrayal of them in Big Love is accurate.


I watched part of that Primetime. I kept thinking... why are they allowing the cameras in now?

That guy... two wives... nine kids.

Thank God I'm not married to him.

The thought...
Not being married to you, having two wives...lol

508 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:32:23pm

re: #483 Killian Bundy


Who said I was a Fred supporter? I'm just getting sick of this misconception being reposted thread after thread.

/thanks for the advice Dear Abby, but I am what I am

My apology for thinking you're a Fred supporter. As for me, I don't care if Spencer Abraham is Fred's water boy. An advisor is equally controversial enough to make me question Fred's wisdom.

509 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:32:30pm

re: #497 squarepeg

That is truly, truly beautiful.
*sniff*
It might make me pull the lever for Edwards.

Of a trapdoor.

510 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:33:13pm

re: #493 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

One hell of an Earthquake tonight, eh?

511 mungagungadin  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:33:59pm

re: #323 carefulnow

If I thought it was accidental I wouldn't say a thing.

512 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:34:40pm
513 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:34:45pm

re: #507 bikermailman

And yet, so many kids on your route bear a striking resemblance.

/Hypocrite!

514 Thanos  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:35:10pm

re: #506 Killian Bundy

re: #486 Thanos

/at worst, I think he'd make a great VP candidate

I quite agree there. I think he needs to get in now if he's coming, the pulling forward of those primaries means heavy campaigning in those states now through Christmas, inclusive...

515 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:35:20pm

re: #499 Milk Toast Intolerant

He may very well be saying that...but as a Jew and a Zionist? There never has been an actual 'palestinian' state, never.

516 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:35:37pm

Wow!
I spent a LOT of time on here today!

I'm gonna haveta go buy some pajamas.

517 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:36:02pm

re: #512 song_and_dance_man

Yeah, and it might trigger the tsunamis mentioned above, but most likely not Honduras.

518 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:36:21pm

re: #501 NY Nana

I do not think he could post if someone came in and stole his / key during the night. :)

That's right. I used to use it to flag my posts so I could find them while scrolling. Now there is the pale green.

/still, it's like it like a crack habit, so you'll have to pry it from my cold dead keyboard

519 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:36:21pm
520 jayzee  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:36:33pm

re: #515 NY Nana

re: #499 Milk Toast Intolerant

He may very well be saying that...but as a Jew and a Zionist? There never has been an actual 'palestinian' state, never.

I think if they need to be peaceful as per Rudy, there will never be one.

521 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:36:47pm

re: #502 Ginn

I wonder if he will even announce...sad that he did this, but it is better to know ahead of time, and I think his team doth protest too much.

522 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:36:50pm

re: #492 Ginn

re: #487 newsjunkie_ky


re: #471 cbinflux
re: #443 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet
Maybe it won't come to you.

There was this movie by that name.
IF Romney were to take more wives, they's ALL be First Wives (Ladies)

BTW, as reported on PrimeTime this very evening, it's a lot more mainstream than you'd guess. They reckon that portrayal of them in Big Love is accurate.


YOU ARE WRONG!

Which part?

All of it. There is only a fringe group of Mormons (which have been basically excommuicated) that practice polygamy. Polygamy was used for a limited time because there were so many unmarried single women and not enough men. This was very early in the beginnings of the religion. The 'prophet' said that polygamy was for the protection of the women.
Don't start equating a good man like Romney with a fringe element.
Remember there are idiot groups in all religions to name one, fred phelps.

523 cosmo  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:36:53pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the first time we've heard this sort of thing--so specifically directed at Palestinian government and its need for accountability? I love it.

I would also love to see a Romney/Giuliani ticket...I don't care who the headliner is, either.

524 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:37:07pm

re: #516 mondoreb

Wow!
I spent a LOT of time on here today!

I'm gonna haveta go buy some pajamas.

Boxers are pretty standard faire.

525 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:37:42pm

re: #521 NY Nana

re: #502 Ginn

I wonder if he will even announce...sad that he did this, but it is better to know ahead of time, and I think his team doth protest too much.

We should find out if he's not the only one.

526 tblot  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:37:49pm

So who is tried of this election stuff. Its still a year away from the real voter to get interested. I think this is going to be a real mud slinging with the democrates attacking each other the Republicans can just sit back and laugh

527 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:37:56pm

re: #518 Killian Bundy

ROTFLMAO!

528 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:38:24pm

re: #498 Malatrope

re: #494 republic

Yeah. That's what my guns are for.
/nite all

I wonder if the Dems ever comprehend, that maybe that's why there are now firearms in HALF of all U.S. households.

529 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:39:14pm

re: #522 newsjunkie_ky

re: #492 Ginn

re: #487 newsjunkie_ky

re: #471 cbinflux
re: #443 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet
Maybe it won't come to you.There was this movie by that name.
IF Romney were to take more wives, they's ALL be First Wives (Ladies)

BTW, as reported on PrimeTime this very evening, it's a lot more mainstream than you'd guess. They reckon that portrayal of them in Big Love is accurate.


YOU ARE WRONG!

Which part?
All of it. There is only a fringe group of Mormons (which have been basically excommuicated) that practice polygamy. Polygamy was used for a limited time because there were so many unmarried single women and not enough men. This was very early in the beginnings of the religion. The 'prophet' said that polygamy was for the protection of the women.
Don't start equating a good man like Romney with a fringe element.
Remember there are idiot groups in all religions to name one, fred phelps.

I agree with you. On all points.

530 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:39:25pm

re: #524 Ginn

Boxers are pretty standard faire.

Thanx!
It always helps to dress appropriately.

531 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:39:54pm

re: #530 mondoreb

re: #524 Ginn

Boxers are pretty standard faire.
Thanx!
It always helps to dress appropriately.

You're welcome.

532 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:39:54pm

re: #504 newsjunkie_ky

re: #485 republic


My extended family are mostly sexist, racist, homophobic, gun toting Democrat voters

Why do they consider themselves democrats? Is it for the welfare?


They actually all have a good old school work ethic, I don't have a relative on welfare.

533 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:40:00pm

re: #528 republic

Oh the dems comprehend alright, it's why they lead the charge on erosion of gun rights...

Republicans generally are not worried about gun ownership..because the values tend to line up..power to the people, not relying on big gov't..etc.

The dems on the other hand...their policies don't line up so pretty...so they are very afraid.

534 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:40:37pm

re: #515 NY Nana

re: #499 Milk Toast Intolerant

He may very well be saying that...but as a Jew and a Zionist? There never has been an actual 'palestinian' state, never.

I agree. There's no arguing about that. It rubs me the wrong way when Muslims refer to Palestinians as the indigenous people of what is now Palestine.

535 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:42:11pm

re: #513 cbinflux

re: #507 bikermailman

And yet, so many kids on your route bear a striking resemblance.

/Hypocrite!

The Postman always comes, er, rings twice!

536 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:42:32pm

re: #532 republic

re: #504 newsjunkie_ky


re: #485 republic

My extended family are mostly sexist, racist, homophobic, gun toting Democrat voters

Why do they consider themselves democrats? Is it for the welfare?

They actually all have a good old school work ethic, I don't have a relative on welfare.

They may be like some people I know FDR Dems or JFK dems that think they've always been a democrat so they'll stay a democrat. They still think it's the same party it used to be.

537 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:42:55pm

Hey, Hurricane Ed, it was a joke, a play on words, nothing more.

Have you ever been drunk in SLC?

538 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:43:20pm

re: #534 Milk Toast Intolerant

I agree. There's no arguing about that. It rubs me the wrong way when Muslims refer to Palestinians as the indigenous people of what is now Palestine.

I think it's funny how when the subject comes up, a lot of people's eyes glaze over and they try to split the difference on all issues of Israel and the PaliArabs.

Until you point out that there's no splitting the difference on 6 million dead bodies, the Palestinians' stated aim.

539 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:43:25pm

re: #525 Ginn

We should find out if he's not the only one.

I prefer sooner, but there is no way I would vote for him unless he is the Republican candidate. I will just hold my nose and pull the lever and vote for him.

/We don't have these here.

[please don't tell Killian that I stole his /.]

540 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:43:50pm

re: #536 newsjunkie_ky

They still think it's the same party it used to be.

Tis my experience with the older folks in my circle. They also think public schools haven't changed...shhh.

541 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:43:57pm

re: #515 NY Nana

re: #499 Milk Toast Intolerant

He may very well be saying that...but as a Jew and a Zionist? There never has been an actual 'palestinian' state, never.

That, unfortunately, is something 97% of our population has been lured into believing otherwise.

542 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:44:27pm

re: #533 Highrise


The dems on the other hand...their policies don't line up so pretty...so they are very afraid.

If the Dems are so afraid, maybe they should start seeing to it that the criminals(who don't obey any laws, period) who commit crimes with guns go away for a very long time, to life, instead of the leftist kooks giving them light sentences, plea bargains, no sentences at all, etc, etc.

It's obvious now, that the Dems actually want gun crime, which is why they never do anything about it, because it continues to give them a platform.

If gun crime went way down, they wouldn't have that platform, which is why the left sees to it, that it continues.

That is a fact.

543 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:44:35pm

re: #538 mondoreb

re: #534 Milk Toast Intolerant

I agree. There's no arguing about that. It rubs me the wrong way when Muslims refer to Palestinians as the indigenous people of what is now Palestine.
I think it's funny how when the subject comes up, a lot of people's eyes glaze over and they try to split the difference on all issues of Israel and the PaliArabs.

Until you point out that there's no splitting the difference on 6 million dead bodies, the Palestinians' stated aim.

This is the only place I can talk politics. I'm surrounded by moonbats.
The extremely batty ones with money.

544 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:44:56pm

Just watched the 2nd installment of 'The Company' tonight. It was about jfk's f**k up with the Bay of Pigs. What a chickenshit president he was.

545 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:45:45pm

re: #534 Milk Toast Intolerant

Too many Jews have died because of the Big Lie, and Christians are also being slaughtered, and sadly a lot have now fled their homes in Israel, and the arabs are moving in.

546 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:45:47pm

re: #543 Ginn

This is the only place I can talk politics. I'm surrounded by moonbats.
The extremely batty ones with money.

Have 'em buy you a drink.
Then write a best-seller
"How to Milk a Moonbat"

547 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:45:49pm

BTW, Hurricane,

John Quinones is WRONG.

548 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:46:35pm

re: #546 mondoreb

re: #543 Ginn

This is the only place I can talk politics. I'm surrounded by moonbats.
The extremely batty ones with money.
Have 'em buy you a drink.
Then write a best-seller
"How to Milk a Moonbat"

They do buy me drinks. I'm not writer.

549 jayzee  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:47:39pm

re: #536 newsjunkie_ky

My grandmother is an FDR Dem-not sexist or homophobic though. That being said, she'd vote for Rudy over any dem as would her friends. So that should lock up the Sunrise FL Sunny Days Phase XII vote!

550 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:47:39pm

re: #541 bikermailman

And also nearly 100 % who do are Demonrats...a lot of whom are Jewish.

551 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:47:47pm

re: #548 Ginn

They do buy me drinks. I'm not a writer.

Ok then...a bumper sticker.

552 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:47:55pm

re: #524 Ginn

re: #516 mondoreb


Wow!
I spent a LOT of time on here today!

I'm gonna haveta go buy some pajamas.


Boxers are pretty standard faire.

Three things I looove seeing a woman in: boxers, ballcap with the ponytail pulled through, and scrubs. Also, glasses and braces.
Yeah, just sign me:
bikerdorkomailman

553 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:48:03pm

TROPICAL STORM DEAN ADVISORY NUMBER 11
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL042007
1100 PM AST WED AUG 15 2007

...DEAN STRENGTHENS...HURRICANE WATCHES ISSUED IN THE LESSER
ANTILLES...

AT 11 PM AST...0300 UTC...HURRICANE WATCHES HAVE BEEN ISSUED FOR THE FOLLOWING LOCATIONS BY THEIR RESPECTIVE GOVERNMENTS...ST. LUCIA... MARTINIQUE...GUADELOUPE AND ITS DEPENDENCIES...SABA...AND ST. EUSTATIUS. A HURRICANE WATCH MEANS THAT HURRICANE CONDITIONS ARE POSSIBLE WITHIN THE WATCH AREA...GENERALLY WITHIN 36 HOURS.

AT 11 PM AST...0300 UTC...THE GOVERNMENT OF THE NETHERLANDS ANTILLES HAS ISSUED A TROPICAL STORM WATCH FOR ST. MAARTEN. A TROPICAL STORM WATCH MEANS THAT TROPICAL STORM CONDITIONS ARE POSSIBLE WITHIN THE WATCH AREA...GENERALLY WITHIN 36 HOURS.

ADDITIONAL WATCHES AND WARNINGS WILL LIKELY BE REQUIRED TOMORROW MORNING.

FOR STORM INFORMATION SPECIFIC TO YOUR AREA...PLEASE MONITOR
PRODUCTS ISSUED BY YOUR LOCAL WEATHER OFFICE.

AT 1100 PM AST...0300Z...THE CENTER OF TROPICAL STORM DEAN WAS
LOCATED NEAR LATITUDE 13.1 NORTH...LONGITUDE 50.2 WEST OR ABOUT 625 MILES...1005 KM...EAST OF BARBADOS.

DEAN IS MOVING TOWARD THE WEST NEAR 23 MPH...37 KM/HR...AND THIS MOTION IS EXPECTED TO CONTINUE DURING THE NEXT 24 HOURS.

MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 70 MPH...110 KM/HR...WITH HIGHER GUSTS. SOME STRENGTHENING IS FORECAST DURING THE NEXT 24 HOURS AND DEAN IS EXPECTED TO BECOME A HURRICANE ON THURSDAY. AN AIR FORCE RESERVE HURRICANE HUNTER AIRCRAFT WILL INVESTIGATE DEAN TOMORROW AFTERNOON.

554 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:48:43pm

re: #540 Highrise

re: #536 newsjunkie_ky


They still think it's the same party it used to be.

Tis my experience with the older folks in my circle. They also think public schools haven't changed...shhh.

Don't get me started on the schools. They have been royally fricked up.

555 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:49:10pm

re: #552 bikermailman

Three things I looove seeing a woman in: boxers, ballcap with the ponytail pulled through, and scrubs. Also, glasses and braces.

Wow!
I never realized that was so deep-seated...I'm gonna have to have a little think on this one.

556 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:49:12pm

re: #542 republic

To hell with iraq issue, I questioned their patriotism a LONG time ago ROFL!

557 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:49:21pm

re: #552 bikermailman

re: #524 Ginn

re: #516 mondoreb

Wow!
I spent a LOT of time on here today!I'm gonna haveta go buy some pajamas.

Boxers are pretty standard faire.
Three things I looove seeing a woman in: boxers, ballcap with the ponytail pulled through, and scrubs. Also, glasses and braces.
Yeah, just sign me:
bikerdorkomailman

lol! Cat's eyes glasses?

and braces?

558 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:50:00pm
559 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:50:13pm

re: #557 Ginn

Cat's eyes

They're the shit!

560 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:50:29pm

re: #559 mondoreb

re: #557 Ginn

Cat's eyes
They're the shit!

:Snap:

561 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:50:40pm

re: #556 Highrise

re: #542 republic

To hell with iraq issue, I questioned their patriotism a LONG time ago ROFL!


They surely are the white flag troop.

562 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:51:17pm

re: #549 jayzee

Good. However, the dems will just say it was stolen. They are still doing that, and claiming '04 was, as well.

563 Thanos  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:51:19pm

re: #544 newsjunkie_ky

Just watched the 2nd installment of 'The Company' tonight. It was about jfk's f**k up with the Bay of Pigs. What a chickenshit president he was.

My father never talks about it, except for one time when he got drunk and cried. He was ashore and had to swim back to the ship pulling a friend with a bullet in his leg. (Signal Corps, you can guess why he was ashore -- to vector in the air support that never showed.) His record shows he was being cured of the clap in Atlanta.

564 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:51:35pm

Where's AngryIgloo?

565 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:52:15pm

re: #562 newsjunkie_ky

re: #549 jayzee

Good. However, the dems will just say it was stolen. They are still doing that, and claiming '04 was, as well.

Whenever I run into a moonbat who says we stole the elections.. I look them square in the eye and say...

"Like taking candy for a baby"

Then walk away.

566 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:52:27pm

re: #552 bikermailman

Three things I looove seeing a woman in: boxers, ballcap with the ponytail pulled through, and scrubs. Also, glasses and braces.
Yeah, just sign me:
bikerdorkomailman

Like this?

567 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:52:36pm

re: #555 mondoreb

re: #552 bikermailman


Three things I looove seeing a woman in: boxers, ballcap with the ponytail pulled through, and scrubs. Also, glasses and braces.

Wow!
I never realized that was so deep-seated...I'm gonna have to have a little think on this one.


I don't require all of the above in one neat package, was just listing...

568 republic  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:52:37pm

Good night all

God Bless our brave military and their families

569 Pawn of the Oppressor[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:52:53pm
570 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:53:30pm

re: #563 Thanos

re: #544 newsjunkie_ky

Just watched the 2nd installment of 'The Company' tonight. It was about jfk's f**k up with the Bay of Pigs. What a chickenshit president he was.
My father never talks about it, except for one time when he got drunk and cried. He was ashore and had to swim back to the ship pulling a friend with a bullet in his leg. (Signal Corps, you can guess why he was ashore -- to vector in the air support that never showed.) His record shows he was being cured of the clap in Atlanta.

Wow!

571 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:53:41pm

re: #565 Ginn

"Like taking candy for a baby"

You must be in serious Moonbat territory.
Very few professional Moonbats here.
LOTS of Moonbats, but they're mostly rank amateurs.

572 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:53:55pm

re: #560 Ginn

re: #559 mondoreb


re: #557 Ginn
Cat's eyes
They're the shit!

:Snap:

Y'all are just so hip with that fancy talk.

573 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:54:35pm
574 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:54:44pm

re: #571 mondoreb

re: #565 Ginn

"Like taking candy for a baby"

You must be in serious Moonbat territory.
Very few professional Moonbats here.
LOTS of Moonbats, but they're mostly rank amateurs.


Yes, very serious. Trustafarians, lesbians, code pink, Rastafarians, Rich bastards, kooks, hippies...

575 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:54:55pm

re: #545 NY Nana

Too many Jews have died because of the Big Lie, and Christians are also being slaughtered, and sadly a lot have now fled their homes in Israel, and the arabs are moving in.

For what it's worth, even I knew better from attending Sunday school years ago. The land was given to Israel's descendants.

576 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:55:12pm

re: #564 DesertSage

Sage?

577 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:55:19pm

re: #572 bikermailman

Come on, biker, you can do it too!

578 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:55:22pm

re: #563 Thanos

re: #544 newsjunkie_ky


Just watched the 2nd installment of 'The Company' tonight. It was about jfk's f**k up with the Bay of Pigs. What a chickenshit president he was.

My father never talks about it, except for one time when he got drunk and cried. He was ashore and had to swim back to the ship pulling a friend with a bullet in his leg. (Signal Corps, you can guess why he was ashore -- to vector in the air support that never showed.) His record shows he was being cured of the clap in Atlanta.

If the subject ever comes up again, feel free to give him my thanks.

579 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:55:30pm

re: #554 newsjunkie_ky

haha tell me about it. My mom told me before my grandparents came over to visit one time...now don't make a big deal about your planning of homeschooling..they disapprove of their daughter sending her two girls to private school. Now, my grandfather's background was science teacher, principal, superintendant...his bread and butter was public school system. My grandmother is a DEVOUT catholic and she really is the most giving person I have ever met...but she hates bush (they live in texas and hated him as governor too..but that is a side issue that I won't touch with her...I do have some respect for my elders lol).

ANyway, so when they came to visit, I'm such a rebel...my mom should have known by now that if she tells me not to do something, I WILL do it...I proceeded to point out all the whacko things going on in the public school system here when the subject seemed appropriate in the convo. They listened. I then told them how much I loved visiting them during the summer and how my grandpa would teach me stuff. I saw a flicker of a smile. I then told them how that inspired me to homeschool. I saw a lightbulb go on. I think they finally understood the times are much different and other states are a bit off.

Made my day..they didn't have to say they approved..but just seeing them get it..was cool enough. After visiting me, they went to their daughter's house to visit their privately taught kids and I bet it was a better time had by all!

580 Idle Drifter  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:55:40pm

re: #564 DesertSage

I think he got a belly full last night on the Obama thread, DesertSage. I guess I'll call it a flame out as the fire that burns twice as bright lives half as long.

581 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:55:53pm

Bed time. I had a single beer, about 100 miles SE of SLC, near the coalbed methane fields, when I temped at ChevronTexaco.

I was w/ management types. At a steak restaurant.


Scenic mountain passes crossed between the field and near Provo.


But except for trip to/from SLC airport, never actually been in SLC.


About an hour's drive South of the field, very scenic, but narrow, and steep canyon.

582 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:56:01pm

re: #567 bikermailman

I don't require all of the above in one neat package, was just listing...

Oh I know.
But when I saw it, I thought, "A 3-fer!"
So now I'm thinking on it, in all it's different and varied manifestations.

583 jayzee  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:56:02pm

re: #565 Ginn

re: #562 newsjunkie_ky


re: #549 jayzee

Good. However, the dems will just say it was stolen. They are still doing that, and claiming '04 was, as well.


Whenever I run into a moonbat who says we stole the elections.. I look them square in the eye and say...

"Like taking candy for a baby"

Then walk away.

Funny thing, my really old Jewish Grandparents who voted for Gore were really offended by the whole stole the election thing. When I asked them about it they angrily contested that they were old not stupid, and they knew exactly how they and who they voted for (they did not have the "hanging chad" issue but the "confusing for stupid people ballot" isssue.)

584 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:56:03pm
585 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:57:19pm

re: #576 NY Nana

Nana?

586 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:57:20pm

re: #563 Thanos
So sorry to hear that about your Dad. The CIA guy that was onshore had to swim to the ship. Wonder how many guys were on the beach? The show showed a newsclip of jfk saying NO AMERICA would aid the rebels against castro.
jfk was a lying sack of shit and a chicken as well.

What scares me, is if a dem gets the WH we are so screwed. I fear for our military. They won't get the support they need. It will BoPs all over again.

587 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:57:23pm

re: #566 Milk Toast Intolerant

Could be, except I can't get past the fact that she's a flaming ignorant Hollywood leftie, and vocal about it like they tend to be. As much as looks matter, what's between the ears and coming out of the mouth matters more.

588 lennysquiggy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:57:31pm

#318 mondoreb

Apologies... I don't check up on the posting history of everyone here. I was just responding to your statement that Rudy somehow put people in danger by not prosecuting illegals during his tenure as Mayor.

Glad you saw NYC before Rudy - so you know what I'm talking about. I hope you can look past the issues the President can't control outside of appointing judges* (abortion, 2nd amendment) to see that Rudy possesses the balls and the brains to prosecute Islamist charities and close our borders while standing up to Iran, etc. Besides that, there aren't many immediate threats to this nation. Except maybe Al Gore and the EU.

*-Keep in mind Rudy has said he'll appoint constructionist judges.

589 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:57:32pm

re: #583 jayzee

re: #565 Ginn

re: #562 newsjunkie_ky

re: #549 jayzeeGood. However, the dems will just say it was stolen. They are still doing that, and claiming '04 was, as well.

Whenever I run into a moonbat who says we stole the elections.. I look them square in the eye and say..."Like taking candy for a baby"

Then walk away.

Funny thing, my really old Jewish Grandparents who voted for Gore were really offended by the whole stole the election thing. When I asked them about it they angrily contested that they were old not stupid, and they knew exactly how they and who they voted for (they did not have the "hanging chad" issue but the "confusing for stupid people ballot" isssue.)

Oh dear. You have to take a different tact with Grandparents..

590 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:57:43pm

re: #574 Ginn

Yes, very serious. Trustafarians, lesbians, code pink, Rastafarians, Rich bastards, kooks, hippies...

All we have is hippies, Hari Krishnas and welfare elves.
There are days when I'd like to hook up with a Rastifarian, though...

591 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:58:16pm

re: #565 Ginn

Excellent, may I steal?

592 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:58:37pm

re: #575 Milk Toast Intolerant

And in a nutshell? Israel's modern history...

593 Racer X  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:58:38pm

Big picture:

Option A: a Democrat is elected president in 2008

Option B: a Republican is elected president in 2008.

Option A is less than desirable.

Option B? Any Republican who comes up with fresh ideas that can grab the attention of the masses (who we all know have the attention span of a cocker spaniel on crack), can distance himself from Bush (yeah, thanks for that requirement GW), and has an honest chance of actually winning the election, will do just fine.

594 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:58:52pm

re: #590 mondoreb

re: #574 Ginn

Yes, very serious. Trustafarians, lesbians, code pink, Rastafarians, Rich bastards, kooks, hippies...
All we have is hippies, Hari Krishnas and welfare elves.
There are days when I'd like to hook up with a Rastifarian, though...

Cause the chicks are so good looking with those dredds?

:D

595 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:59:13pm

re: #591 newsjunkie_ky

re: #565 Ginn

Excellent, may I steal?

Sure.

596 LC LaWedgie  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:59:46pm
597 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 8:59:47pm

re: #573 song_and_dance_man

re: #564 DesertSage


Where's AngryIgloo?

I don't know. song_and_wrath_man reporting for duty.

I'm pissed without a bullet.

Perhaps she can give you one.

598 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:00:34pm

re: #574 Ginn

re: #571 mondoreb


re: #565 Ginn

"Like taking candy for a baby"

You must be in serious Moonbat territory.
Very few professional Moonbats here.
LOTS of Moonbats, but they're mostly rank amateurs.


Yes, very serious. Trustafarians, lesbians, code pink, Rastafarians, Rich bastards, kooks, hippies...

Makes me glad to live out here in Flyover Country.

599 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:01:00pm

re: #581 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

G'nite, Ed!

Boy, do I miss your colored reports. :=(

600 sheik yer'mami  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:01:45pm

I'd vote for anyone who calls for the resettlement of all Pali-Arabs in and out of Israel and within a certain time-frame. Non-compliance will result in the removal/ excision or powderization of the black stone in Mecca.

Unfortunately even Tancredo hasn't gone there yet, but if he did he would be my preferred candidate.

What say you?

601 blackpajamas  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:01:46pm

I will vote for a Guiliani/Romney ticket.

Provided that Fred Thompson is appointed to fill all cabinet positions.

602 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:01:57pm

re: #577 Ginn

re: #572 bikermailman

Come on, biker, you can do it too!

Ummm...you'uns are the shizznizzell...frizzell...nell...

603 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:02:11pm

re: #598 bikermailman

re: #574 Ginn

re: #571 mondoreb

re: #565 Ginn"Like taking candy for a baby"

You must be in serious Moonbat territory.
Very few professional Moonbats here.
LOTS of Moonbats, but they're mostly rank amateurs.


Yes, very serious. Trustafarians, lesbians, code pink, Rastafarians, Rich bastards, kooks, hippies...
Makes me glad to live out here in Flyover Country.

If you lived in the Internet.. would you be in Scroll Over Country?

604 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:02:25pm

re: #592 NY Nana

And in a nutshell? Israel's modern history...

Saw that a while back when someone posted it here, but I'll bookmark it now just in case I need to refer some moonbats to it. :')

605 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:03:36pm

re: #585 DesertSage

Nu? What's new?

606 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:04:03pm

re: #582 mondoreb

re: #567 bikermailman


I don't require all of the above in one neat package, was just listing...

Oh I know.
But when I saw it, I thought, "A 3-fer!"
So now I'm thinking on it, in all it's different and varied manifestations.

Let me know what you come up with!

607 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:04:42pm

re: #603 Ginn

If you lived in the Internet.. would you be in Scroll Over Country?

If you lived on a bed . . . would you be in Roll Over Country?

If you lived with Sandrine . . . would you be in Troll Over Country?

608 Idle Drifter  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:04:48pm

re: #590 mondoreb

re: #574 Ginn


Yes, very serious. Trustafarians, lesbians, code pink, Rastafarians, Rich bastards, kooks, hippies...

All we have is hippies, Hari Krishnas and welfare elves.
There are days when I'd like to hook up with a Rastifarian, though...

I've visited a couple enclaves where these "People of the Earth" dwell such as Cal Berkley and Eugene , OR. For a bunch of people who claim to love the Earth many of them leave garbage everywhere.

609 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:05:17pm

re: #588 lennysquiggy

Well, I always appreciate the gracious writer!
You see so little of it, even when people make out their shopping lists.

Rudy's got the balls. And believe me, after all day of following up links on the Dims are tripping over each other to see who can say the most chuckle-headed nonsense: I always have a fine appreciation when someone says something grown-up, whether it be Rudy or Toby Keith.

Mitt, Rudy, Fred...I'm down with 'em all. I mean, the alternative is too get into lockstep with the Kossacks and wave bye-bye to taxes, freedoms and safety here and abroad.

610 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:05:21pm

re: #607 squarepeg

re: #603 Ginn

If you lived in the Internet.. would you be in Scroll Over Country?
If you lived on a bed . . . would you be in Roll Over Country?

If you lived with Sandrine . . . would you be in Troll Over Country?

LOL!

611 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:05:33pm

re: #605 NY Nana

Nu? Newt?

612 jayzee  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:05:51pm

re: #592 NY Nana

re: #575 Milk Toast Intolerant

And in a nutshell? Israel's modern history...

What's funny is that no one ever calls bs on their "all we want is 20 something percent of 'Palestine'" line. Think they are too dumb or playing ignorant to the fact that they are referring to the mandate as whole with Jordan being the other 70+% and them getting control of everything west of the Jordan?

613 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:06:06pm
614 ChenZhen  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:06:22pm

re: #569 Pawn of the Oppressor

re: #409 republic


Hillary and Obama would be infinitly worse, to the point of the destruction of America.

Hillary as President means civil war by 2012. I'm sure of it. There are too many pissed off people out there with guns who had it up to their necks with eight years of Clinton.

Wow. Talk about a bunch of sore losers.

615 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:06:22pm
616 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:06:46pm

re: #594 Ginn

Cause the chicks are so good looking with those dredds?

You know...I don't believe I've ever thought of a Rastifarian in female terms.

Does that make me gender insensitive?

617 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:06:47pm

re: #603 Ginn

LOL!

618 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:07:23pm

What's that smell?

619 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:07:29pm

Goodnight everyone.

620 Idle Drifter  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:07:32pm

re: #614 ChenZhen

re: #569 Pawn of the Oppressor


re: #409 republic


Hillary and Obama would be infinitly worse, to the point of the destruction of America.

Hillary as President means civil war by 2012. I'm sure of it. There are too many pissed off people out there with guns who had it up to their necks with eight years of Clinton.

Wow. Talk about a bunch of sore losers.

Pot calling Kettle black 2000, 2004.

621 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:08:08pm

re: #607 squarepeg

re: #603 Ginn

If you lived in the Internet.. would you be in Scroll Over Country?

If you lived on a bed . . . would you be in Roll Over Country?

If you lived with Sandrine . . . would you be in Troll Over Country?

If I lived in a tank near Sandrine, would it be Roll Over Troll Country? heh.

622 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:08:31pm

re: #616 mondoreb

re: #594 Ginn


Cause the chicks are so good looking with those dredds?
You know...I don't believe I've ever thought of a Rastifarian in female terms.

Does that make me gender insensitive?

I wouldn't know.

Yesterday I said I thought men were interesting and a woman said that I was "sexist."

How can I be sexist against my own gender?

623 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:08:41pm
624 Gusbenz  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:09:14pm

He did wonders for my city; he'll do wonders for my nation.

625 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:09:19pm

re: #606 bikermailman

I believe I'll put it into a policy statement when I'm finished.

626 Thanos  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:09:27pm

There's not enough bad news for the war out so the AP's going to pimp stories about Rummie's Resignation Letter.
[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

re: #578 bikermailman

re: #563 Thanos


re: #544 newsjunkie_ky

Just watched the 2nd installment of 'The Company' tonight. It was about jfk's f**k up with the Bay of Pigs. What a chickenshit president he was.

My father never talks about it, except for one time when he got drunk and cried. He was ashore and had to swim back to the ship pulling a friend with a bullet in his leg. (Signal Corps, you can guess why he was ashore -- to vector in the air support that never showed.) His record shows he was being cured of the clap in Atlanta.

If the subject ever comes up again, feel free to give him my thanks.


Will do, but the subject of that and his three tours in Nam never comes up, the closest he gets is with some of his poetry.

627 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:09:48pm

g'nite nj_k

628 jayzee  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:09:48pm

re: #622 Ginn

re: #616 mondoreb


re: #594 Ginn


Cause the chicks are so good looking with those dredds?
You know...I don't believe I've ever thought of a Rastifarian in female terms.
Does that make me gender insensitive?

I wouldn't know.

Yesterday I said I thought men were interesting and a woman said that I was "sexist."

How can I be sexist against my own gender?

Unless you are a womynist you just may be!

629 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:09:59pm
630 rtheyserius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:09:59pm
"It is not in the interest of the United States, at a time when it is being threatened by Islamist terrorists, to assist the creation of another state that will support terrorism."

Giuliani just got my vote.

631 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:10:55pm

re: #618 DesertSage

What's that smell?

LOL

632 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:12:02pm

re: #608 Idle Drifter

I've visited a couple enclaves where these "People of the Earth" dwell such as Cal Berkley and Eugene , OR. For a bunch of people who claim to love the Earth many of them leave garbage everywhere.

Long as it's bio-degradable, Power to the People-of-the-Earth.
Back several years ago, I enjoyed listening to these people


But I couldn't get past the politics of singer/goof Zac.

633 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:12:13pm
634 bikermailman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:12:23pm

re: #614 ChenZhen

re: #569 Pawn of the Oppressor


re: #409 republic


Hillary and Obama would be infinitly worse, to the point of the destruction of America.

Hillary as President means civil war by 2012. I'm sure of it. There are too many pissed off people out there with guns who had it up to their necks with eight years of Clinton.

Wow. Talk about a bunch of sore losers.

Chen! How ya doing? I'm about to head to bed and miss the fun. BTW, It's been said by a couple of people here, not many, and I'll say it: I like you. Yes, you're a leftie, but you're not hateful, like you see so much of at Kos, DU, and the like. Anyone who's not hateful, I'm glad to have discussions with, and even though I'll usually disagree with you, you're someone I'd sit down and have a beer with. Night All!

635 Idle Drifter  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:12:25pm

re: #622 Ginn

re: #616 mondoreb


re: #594 Ginn


Cause the chicks are so good looking with those dredds?
You know...I don't believe I've ever thought of a Rastifarian in female terms.
Does that make me gender insensitive?

I wouldn't know.

Yesterday I said I thought men were interesting and a woman said that I was "sexist."

How can I be sexist against my own gender?

Uh, what?

636 Thanos  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:12:53pm

Time for me to get some zzz's , goodnite all.

637 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:13:23pm

re: #621 bikermailman

If I lived in a tank near Sandrine, would it be Roll Over Troll Country? heh.

haha!

/I pass the torch.

638 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:13:36pm

haha everyone leaves when it starts smellin.

639 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:14:00pm

re: #632 mondoreb

re: #608 Idle Drifter

I've visited a couple enclaves where these "People of the Earth" dwell such as Cal Berkley and Eugene , OR. For a bunch of people who claim to love the Earth many of them leave garbage everywhere.
Long as it's bio-degradable, Power to the People-of-the-Earth.
Back several years ago, I enjoyed listening to these people
[Link: youtube.com...]
But I couldn't get past the politics of singer/goof Zac.

Here you go.

640 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:14:33pm

Night Biker!

641 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:15:09pm

re: #622 Ginn

How can I be sexist against my own gender?

Strange, isn't it?
It's like all those exercises in college that began, "If you were a tree, what type would you be?"

642 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:15:37pm

re: #633 song_and_dance_man

BTW.. all I have to do is mention Cognito and Cognito appears, if Cognito is lurking.

I think it likes me.

He has SOOO been on scroll status with me forever. Circular arguers get on my shit list real fast. I figure, life is too short.

643 Carol Herman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:15:58pm

To answer those who think Rudy "could be" lying; they miss the point.

You don't LIE about this, and say you're backing Israel's defense. And, you don't "advertise" grievances with the Saudi's!

Rudy is using UNHEARD OF WORDS!

He said ISLAMIST!

He said he would not back elections in Irak, IF it meant putting Islamists in power!

We've failed to hear this from Bush. If anything, both Bush and his dad have been scared of military "things." And, Bush just floated for about 3 years, one bad decision after another. (Like Paul Bremer. Like allowing the Saud's to fund the terror in Irak.) Like NOT putting up roadblocks at the borders with Iran and Syria. In other words? OTHERS have drawn the map.

NOT WITH GUILIANI!

I really hope he makes it.

But just like Arik Sharon stroked at a critical time; I think God tests us all. If you want to bet that only one man has GUiliani's strengths, then it is saying something very sad about our foreign policy.

And, I think the 2008 election will turn on this stuff.

The mainstream media's been wrong, before.

Guiliani wants the job without compromises.

That was Llincoln's strong point, too, going in to 1860. There were 3 others who were "ahead" of Lincoln, desired "favorite sons" ... who couldn't carry the national election.

That old GOP "wig wam" in Chicago, almost put someone else on the top of the ticket. Then? Politicians; and those that work with them, WANT JOBS. They get very realistic.

And, Lincoln was smart. He refused to bargain-chip away the posts his rivals wanted. Until he had a lock. Then? Read Doris Kearns Goodwin's book: TEAM OF RIVALS. Such a joy. Such a profound difference, one man made.

Can we be so lucky, again? The Islamists think we're soft. But they're terrified of Guiliani.

At least Guiliani is going about this contest by giving his enemies heartburn. This includes hillary. What's she gonna say in response? She's gonna go soft? No one is gonna win this thing who goes "soft."

644 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:16:04pm

ChenZhen,

Sore losers? You mean 2006? We were just sore, win or lose.

2008 will be different, though.

645 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:16:28pm

re: #633 song_and_dance_man

Damn you, you wrote it three times!

But have fun:
Say "left"
Say "up"
make a statement for or against ANYTHING

Watch the devil's lead counsel unfold

646 Idle Drifter  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:16:54pm

re: #632 mondoreb

I don't think cigarette butts count under biodegradable. I find it interesting that Soviet backed regimes and rebels get the "Free Pass" on genocide, torture, and other police state activities.

647 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:17:22pm

re: #641 mondoreb

re: #622 Ginn


How can I be sexist against my own gender?
Strange, isn't it?
It's like all those exercises in college that began, "If you were a tree, what type would you be?"

I like this one. Of course it's mine, but I still like it.

"If a tree fell on mime would no one hear it?"

648 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:17:44pm

re: #634 bikermailman

Chen! How ya doing? I'm about to head to bed and miss the fun. BTW, It's been said by a couple of people here, not many, and I'll say it: I like you. Yes, you're a leftie, but you're not hateful, like you see so much of at Kos, DU, and the like. Anyone who's not hateful, I'm glad to have discussions with, and even though I'll usually disagree with you, you're someone I'd sit down and have a beer with. Night All!

I'll second that. You can be too much "pot/kettle" for me, ChenZen, but as long as you're brave enough to continue the discussion, there's still hope for you, yet! :)

649 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:18:15pm

Scream?

lol!

650 Racer X  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:18:52pm

re: #639 Ginn

Primus sucks!

651 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:18:54pm

This is why I'll never teach.

652 freedomplow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:19:19pm

OT: Both Chris Matthews and Jon Stewart tried to perpetuate their trusted lie again yesterday...

Chris Matthews and Jon Stewart wrong again... They refuse to acknowledge this fact:

NY Times Iraq Reporter Corrects Russert: 'American Troops Were Greeted as Liberators'

Video

To my knowledge, Tim Russert does not continuously repeat this lie after he was corrected. Chris Matthews and Jon Stewart (who both know this fact) do.

Why? Do they have an agenda?

653 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:19:37pm

re: #650 Racer X

re: #639 Ginn

Primus sucks!

lol! I only like that one song. And your name is Mud!

654 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:20:01pm

I don't have to wonder who hasn't visited the "I sure told them" blog. Gives one a whole new perspective.

655 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:21:13pm

re: #654 cbinflux

Yep. Made me think.

656 Milk Toast Intolerant  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:21:29pm

re: #652 freedomplow

OT: Both Chris Matthews and Jon Stewart tried to perpetuate their trusted lie again yesterday...

Chris Matthews and Jon Stewart wrong again... They refuse to acknowledge this fact:

NY Times Iraq Reporter Corrects Russert: 'American Troops Were Greeted as Liberators'

Video

To my knowledge, Tim Russert does not continuously repeat this lie after he was corrected. Chris Matthews and Jon Stewart (who both know this fact) do.

Why? Do they have an agenda?

Tim Russert is a straight up, tries to be "salt of the earth type" guy, imo. Chrissy Matthews and Stewart? Not sure.

657 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:22:10pm

One reason I like Rudy is he'll put California in play.
It's been a long time since a GOP presidential candidate actually had a chance in CA, I'd like to see Hillary have to fight for this state.

It will be the same in NY also.

658 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:22:20pm
659 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:22:27pm

re: #579 Highrise

On the homeschooling thing ---

We got the state "content" standards (ie. the stuff our kids will be tested on). What a bunch of comsymp garbage.

For grade 3 social studies here are the people they are supposed to study;

Paul Revere (a great American, if mythical)
Frederick Douglas (Hmmm)
Susan B. Anthony (Oh, the ugly chick on the dollar coins no one used)
Franklin Roosevelt (Under-Secretary of the Navy, right?)
Thurgood Marshall (notice a pattern here?)

and the punchline ... (drum roll please)

Cesar Chavaz

Even though we're home schooling, we have to teach our kid about these folks. OK, I'll do it. I've been to the place in Seneca Falls NY where Amelia Bloomer introduced Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Stanton and invented conspiracy feminism. And I'll explain this occurred because Seneca Falls stands directly over the Mouth of Hell, which explains Cornell University's decision to give Cynthia McKinney a faculty position, among other things.

But Chavez? WTF?

660 bosforus  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:22:31pm

re: #622 Ginn

i was there, don't even try to act like you're not sexist with all your girlie girl ways

661 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:23:09pm

re: #633 song_and_dance_man

BTW.. all I have to do is mention Cognito and Cognito appears, if Cognito is lurking.

I think it likes me.

There's an opportunity for an "In Cognito" joke here, but I'll let it pass.

662 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:23:22pm

re: #639 Ginn

wow!
That worked on so many different levels for me.
Musically, as well as visionally.
Plus the tension between how agreeable and reasonable he looks vs. the lyrics. (kinda like listening to a Dim debate.)

I have to say that's the first Primus I've earbook marked.

663 Racer X  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:23:23pm

re: #653 Ginn

Oh c'mon! you hafta luv Winona's Big Brown Beaver!

664 cbinflux  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:24:00pm
665 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:24:28pm

re: #652 freedomplow

I think the answer is in who is their audience. By their very opinions, demeanor, format, they know who they are targeting and I don't expect them to deviate from what they initially built.

666 Randman  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:25:25pm

The devil made me do it

667 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:25:39pm

re: #646 Idle Drifter

I don't think cigarette butts count under biodegradable. I find it interesting that Soviet backed regimes and rebels get the "Free Pass" on genocide, torture, and other police state activities.

Nah...when the highest authority one recognizes is oneself, then anything is permissible.

"It's too late, to fall in love with Sharon Tate".

668 ChenZhen  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:26:04pm

re: #620 Idle Drifter

Pot/kettle? Yea, as if calls for impeachment are even in the same ballpark as endorsing a civil war. Nothing is more patriotic than "lock 'n' load" whan your party loses an election, I guess. That's cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs territory.

669 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:26:21pm
670 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:26:50pm

re: #612 jayzee

re: #592 NY Nana


re: #575 Milk Toast Intolerant

And in a nutshell? Israel's modern history...


What's funny is that no one ever calls bs on their "all we want is 20 something percent of 'Palestine'" line. Think they are too dumb or playing ignorant to the fact that they are referring to the mandate as whole with Jordan being the other 70+% and them getting control of everything west of the Jordan?

If only Israel had the same PR wizards that they do, if only! Give them an inch? They will take the whole country. Why the Mandate even gave them a grain of sand?

I remember when Britain refused to allow ships containing Jews to even enter Israeli waters after WWII..survivors...remember the movie 'Exodus'?

Not one grain of sand, not one!

671 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:27:05pm

re: #647 Ginn

"If a tree fell on mime would no one hear it?"

--or care?

672 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:27:41pm

re: #659 lucius septimius


Oh there are a bunch of states that are HOKEY in their rules for homeschooling. Oregon is freakish..I will NEVER move there.

You know what my requirements are for homeschooling in california? I just file a card and checkmark a box saying my kid is with me.

It's one of the only reasons why I stay in California. The freedom I have on some things is just worth it to me that I don't get in too many areas.

673 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:27:55pm

re: #659 lucius septimius


But Chavez? WTF?

You can always teach them about Hugo Chavez (and Sean Penn instead of William Penn).

674 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:29:20pm

re: #657 DesertSage

One reason I like Rudy is he'll put California in play.
It's been a long time since a GOP presidential candidate actually had a chance in CA, I'd like to see Hillary have to fight for this state.

It will be the same in NY also.



Now that is a key point.
I read the article (it took a while) and everything he said there was completely consistent with what I heard him say in a small venue a few months back. The main argument I've heard against his candidacy is that "southerners" won't vote for him. The hell they won't! Are they gonna line up to vote for Hillary or Obamamamamamama just because Rudi is a Yankee? Jeez.

Rudi is not going to lose any Republican strongholds because the primary issue in this election will be national security.

That said, Rudi has a chance of drawing away some Democratic states. California should have been in play in 2000 and 2004 -- the recall vote shows us that. And regardless of how disappointed people may be in the Terminator, the fact is that people in that state threw out a mainstream Democrat for a complete unknown Republican. There is an opportinity there.

I'm less convinced that NY would be in play -- as I said earlier, the Mouth of Hell is under that state, so I wouldn't count on anything.

675 blackpajamas  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:29:31pm

re: #669 song_and_dance_man

re: #661 lucius septimius

re: #633 song_and_dance_man

BTW.. all I have to do is mention Cognito and Cognito appears, if Cognito is lurking.

I think it likes me.

There's an opportunity for an "In Cognito" joke here, but I'll let it pass.

You have earned a Freudian Pink Slip.

I dub thee our official Freudian Slip and Fall lawyer.

676 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:29:46pm

re: #659 lucius septimius

But Chavez? WTF?

Be on the lookout for the Voting When There's Only One Name On The Ballot required unit.

677 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:30:10pm

re: #669 song_and_dance_man

re: #661 lucius septimius

re: #633 song_and_dance_man

BTW.. all I have to do is mention Cognito and Cognito appears, if Cognito is lurking.

I think it likes me.

There's an opportunity for an "In Cognito" joke here, but I'll let it pass.

You have earned a Freudian Pink Slip.

Oh goody! It matches my frock.

678 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:31:41pm

re: #672 Highrise

Do they not have to take the state test?

Georgia is particularly hostile to homeschoolers -- one more reason whey I'm looking for jobs elsewhere.

679 realwest  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:33:37pm

Whew, I just finished all of Rudy's presentation.
Thank you Charles for presenting it to us for our consideration.
My brief summary (which I'm sure will not do Rudy justice) is this: American is Israel's PERMANENT ally because it is right and just that we should be. NATO needs to be, at the least reformed and realigned to face the single largest threat to civilization today or it may in fact become obsolete. The United Nations has done NOTHING to stop Islamist terrorism nor any wars at all in the last 75 years and the UN has done NOTHING at all to help those around the world in need, especially, but not just in, Africa. It is merely a place which provides a forum for dictators and tyrants to continue spewing their lies and covering their misdeeds and indeed, the UN itself is a totally corrupt organization.
World peace may be advanced through negotiation, but not with negotiation with those who's publicly stated purpose is to destroy Israel or indeed Western Civilization and for any diplomacy to work for the US, the other people we are negotiating with must understand that we are strong and will not shy away from any confrontation that would or could, without vigorous United States opposition thereto, lead to a faster destruction of Western Civilization.
Finally, there's nothing wrong with negotiation as a concept, but it should only be carried out by the executive branch of the United States government and it should never be entered into with people who have previously attacked us or our interests and not paid a price for such attack(s) and while negotiations with Russia and China should be conducted, so too should United States efforts to induce governmental change within those two nations by the indigenous peoples of Russia and China.
There's lots more and a great deal of it is a must read, but simply based on the summary of what he said that I just provided (and which of course I believe he wrote) how can anyone not think Rudy Guiliani is not the best candidate in the Republican party at least on matters of foreign affairs and fighting terrorism.
Islamist Terrorism.

680 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:33:39pm

re: #673 DesertSage

I was thinking more along the lines of this Chavez.

681 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:34:10pm

re: #679 realwest

Hey Real. You're up late/early.

682 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:34:27pm

Hillary's reaction to B. Hussein's latest foreign policy statement:

683 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:34:39pm

re: #678 lucius septimius

re: #672 Highrise

Do they not have to take the state test?

Georgia is particularly hostile to homeschoolers -- one more reason whey I'm looking for jobs elsewhere.

Nope no state test.

Washington state is also easier on homeschooling and I will consider moving there if I need to get away from california. They say they require tests but if you have an education, you can just say you qualify to be a test giver. They are pretty lax, oregon isn't. I can't move away from the west coast yet due to my parents being alive..I can't leave them. They live in wash state.

My advice to you is to look at what states are homeschool friendly..seriously you could read for HOURS! But hey, if you are seriously looking, you want it to be easy on your life yeah?

Let me see what I can dig up link wise and not burst your head open :P . sec.

684 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:34:53pm
685 Barrypopik  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:35:14pm

O.T.: Slate article on newspaper errors.

Don't miss the Slate article on newspaper errors. If you think newspapers correct factual errors, think again. This is more of a problem now, when people find and cite uncorrected factual errors via the internet.

I've had the New York Times spell my name wrong in two different articles. I've been quoted the New York Times for something I never said or would say.

For years, I would write to the Chicago Tribune with documented evidence that Chicago's nickname, "the Windy City," was neither coined nor popularized at the 1893 World's Fair. Although I had documented evidence (even from the historical Chicago Tribune), no one would correct the errors--not even the newspaper's Public Editor (who simply wouldn't respond).

We're not talking politics; we're talking about correcting factual errors!

Reign of Error
The average newspaper corrects very few of its factual errors, says professor.
By Jack Shafer
Posted Wednesday, Aug. 15, 2007, at 6:08 PM ET

686 JimmyTheClaw  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:36:58pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

re: #21 DesertSage

I think Fred is an empty suit with no ideas, plans or passion. However he's very electable and charismatic. I'm hoping the primary voters have enough good sense to go with Rudy but I'm not terribly optimistic.

my thoughts exactly maybe a rudy/fred ticket

ok now to catch up and read the next 500 comments

687 blackpajamas  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:38:06pm

re: #679 realwest

... NATO needs to be, at the least reformed and realigned to face the single largest threat to civilization today or it may in fact become obsolete.

The single largest threat is Michael Moore.

IMHO, The most dangerous threat is whacko Sharia Jihad, Chinese Communism, and vodka soaked Russians with nukes.

688 bosforus  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:38:56pm

re: #685 Barrypopik

why correct when the lie brings in so much money?

689 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:39:08pm

re: #674 lucius septimius

I read a while back in a local CA newspaper that 10 years ago 66% of Hispanics were registered Democrats in CA.

Last year the number had dropped to 54%.
I've lived in CA all my life and I've always known that Hispanics, especially in older more established neighborhoods, tend to be very conservative. I saw so many Bush/Cheney lawn signs in East LA I lost count.

The last thing in the world these older Hispanics want the GOP to do is pander to illegal immigrants with some stupid amnesty bill. They have too much at stake and they don't want to see the state go bankrupt. They're not stupid.

690 Killian Bundy  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:39:13pm

re: #668 ChenZhen

That's cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs territory.

Yeah, like the LLL troffers, global warming bots, and the moonbaticus DU and Kos crowd who salivate over the prospect of a military defeat in Iraq, regardless of all the evidence to the contrary, and swap fantasies about how Chimpy is going to declare martial law and suspend the elections.

/I thought your side won, why are the still so unhinged?

691 realwest  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:40:01pm

re: #681 lucius septimius Hey my friend - I am, cause I just HAD to read what Rudy wrote! I confess that I have only glazed at some of the comments, but I thought Rudy's putting it all out there on foreign policy, for all to see and for the Democrats to try to attack without looking like idiots was just great. But the whole thing was a huge read for me and I'm now going to bed to get some sleep!
Might be a good idea for you, too, unless of course you haven't read ALL that Rudy had to say!
See you tomorrow on the DT!

692 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:40:51pm

re: #689 DesertSage

re: #674 lucius septimius

They're not stupid.

But that appears to be precisely the way the dems look at them. Which, in the long run, will be their downfall.

693 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:41:12pm

re: #678 lucius septimius


One of the BEST homeschooling sites ever..and seriously, I hope you have endless hours to research :P..is:

[Link: homeschooling.gomilpitas.com...]

Ann Z. is a gift from God.

Here are the laws per state on the left hand side (I've told you california's so you have atleast a guideline):

[Link: homeschooling.gomilpitas.com...]

That should get you started.

If you are certain your kid won't touch the public school system and you want to understand good homeschooling communities..pop into some yahoogroups and ask questions. They are really truly helpful and know how to either work with the statutes or know how to get around them.

694 phoenixgirl  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:41:47pm

ginn, you weren't in the lounge tonite?

695 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:42:20pm

re: #691 realwest

Roger wilco.

First I'll finish my ice cream.

696 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:43:52pm

Ok guys..whoever the VP is..we need to think SCARY. That way if we get a dem congress worse case scenerio...they'll stop with the *I want to impeach bullcrap*. I swear to this day the only reason they don't go after bush is because cheney is much scarier.

Let that be a lesson..pick a very scary looking vp :P .

697 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:44:49pm
698 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:45:23pm

re: #679 realwest

realwest,

wow, you've done quite a public service. Now that I see he mentions China, I'm definitely going to have to read that part.

699 Capitalist Tool  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:45:31pm

Rudy does employ a great writer, and if Rudy really believes in that text and convinces us that he means it, then he can beat Hillary.

We still have a chance, if someone just beats Hillary.

An American Julius?

700 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:45:34pm

re: #693 Highrise

Thanks for the link -- I'll look this over and pass it on to my lovely bride.

We're already connected with the folks in the state (I've been an advocate since before we had kids) and know some of the local groups through former students who were homeschooled.

Our oldest is actually really excited about this -- we didn't know how he'd react to the news.

701 bosforus  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:45:47pm

re: #696 Highrise

Ok guys..whoever the VP is..we need to think SCARY. That way if we get a dem congress worse case scenerio...they'll stop with the *I want to impeach bullcrap*. I swear to this day the only reason they don't go after bush is because cheney is much scarier.

Let that be a lesson..pick a very scary looking vp :P .

of course, Nancy Pelosi isn't much of an option either provided Cheney gets the boot

702 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:46:04pm

Rudy will appeal to some blue states which will put Hillary on the defensive right off the bat.

I don't see Hillary being a threat to peel off any red states though. Rudy's campaign will be on offense the whole time.

703 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:46:25pm

re: #696 Highrise

Scary looking in these sense of politics, or appearance?

704 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:47:03pm

Giuliani's New Hard-Line Stance On Immigration Draws Skeptics

Mayor Giuliani's attempt to recast himself as a strong opponent of illegal immigration is being met with skepticism from those on both sides of the immigration debate.

Mr. Giuliani gave a speech in the early primary state of South Carolina yesterday that seemed to respond to criticism from his one of his Republican rivals, Mitt Romney, who has generated headlines in the last week for painting Mr. Giuliani as lax on illegal immigration. But the former mayor, who had a reputation for his pro-immigrant policies in New York, does not seem to be winning over advocates for stronger immigration regulations or for those who think more visas are needed.

"It sounds like an effort by Giuliani to make himself seem like a hawk on immigration when, in fact, he's been a dove all along," the executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, Mark Krikorian, said.

Mr. Krikorian favors a stronger crackdown on illegal immigrants. Mr. Giuliani told an audience of more than 300 people at a community center yesterday that he would secure the country's borders and "end illegal immigration."

"We can end illegal immigration. I promise you we can end illegal immigration," Mr. Giuliani said, according to the Associated Press. The Republican presidential front-runner said those who are in the country illegally should be able to apply for citizenship if they identify themselves and then learn English.

He is also pushing the creation of a "national database of foreigners" and a "tamper-proof" biometric identification card for any non-American who is working or going to school in this country. He is also vowing to deploy 20,000 border patrol agents to deport illegal immigrants who commit a felony and to build a fence along the American border.

His focus on immigration comes less than a week after Mr. Romney criticized him for running a "sanctuary city" in New York when he was mayor. Mr. Giuliani defended his record, saying that when he was in office, New York had the lowest number of per capita illegal immigrants of any major city.

During a radio interview yesterday, the mayor said the country should focus its deportation efforts on those who commit crimes first. When talking about border patrol he said it was complicated but that it wasn't "brain surgery." Mr. Giuliani is no doubt caught in a difficult political position on an issue that has divided Republicans. Senator McCain, one of his other leading rivals, has taken more heat from conservatives on immigration than any other candidate in the field.

Mr. Giuliani must figure out how to square his reputation as a pro-immigrant mayor while appealing to conservative primary voters. Political analysts say he also needs to be wary of flip-flopping — something for which he and others have criticized Mr. Romney. A senior scholar at the Manhattan Institute, Tamar Jacoby, said Mr. Giuliani's proposal is a "fairly responsible" first step but that it is too focused on enforcement.

"Trying to end illegal immigration with enforcement alone is like trying to maintain a zero-calorie diet," she said. "It doesn't work." She said the country needs more visas for both unskilled and skilled workers.

Earlier this week, Mr. Giuliani appointed seven immigration advisers and sent out a memo detailing some of the harder-line comments he made on illegal immigration in the early 1980s.

The director of the Manhattan-based Center for an Urban Future, Jonathan Bowles, said Mr. Giuliani seems to have forgotten the "positive impact that immigrants, both legal and illegal, have had on New York and other cities."

He pointed out that Mr. Giuliani created the mayor's office of immigrant affairs when he was in City Hall and filed suit against the federal government for attempting to allow city employees to turn in illegal immigrants who came forward for city services.[...]

705 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:47:51pm

re: #699 Capitalist Tool

Rudy does employ a great writer, and if Rudy really believes in that text and convinces us that he means it, then he can beat Hillary.

We still have a chance, if someone just beats Hillary.

An American Julius?

This isn't a necessarily a speech writer -- I've seen him say much the same thing in public in response to questions. These are his ideas.

706 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:48:14pm

re: #671 mondoreb

re: #647 Ginn

"If a tree fell on mime would no one hear it?"
--or care?

Not me.

707 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:49:40pm

re: #700 lucius septimius

well I was 16 when I truly wanted to go to college instead of immature sex filled highschool. I knew what public school was...a 6 yr sex camp..sorry but it was true..and I'm no prude..I'm just elling it as I saw it as a teen even. I knew what was sleezy and what wasn't and I didn't appreciate sleeziness being shoved in my face either.

We don't give our kids enough credit. I say that in general. Good parents understand this. I know my mom did but she just didn't know how to give me a leg up to get out of the public disgrace school system..bless her. I tell her all the time she did what she knew. But I made it my mission to make sure I found out how to get my kid further..and to help others who wished to do so as well.

708 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:49:45pm

re: #650 Racer X

Yes- yes they do. :)

709 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:50:11pm
710 Purple Fury  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:50:14pm

On this issue, Rudy is the only truly serious candidate in the race right now. It's not even a race really.

711 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:51:29pm

re: #689 DesertSage

DesertSage, the drop from 66 to 54 is good to see. It seems it takes so long for Hispanics to figure it out, though. Do you listen to John and Ken on KFI? Not long ago the most annoying young woman was on, a former illegal who had managed to get citizenship, saying in a thick accent, "It's time for you Americans to give back."

Anyway, I hope you're enjoying your evening.

712 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:52:05pm

re: #704 NY Nana

People can and do change their minds/policies depending on the circumstances.

I'm taking Rudy's word on this. At least he's addressed it.

713 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:52:49pm

re: #702 DesertSage

I agree completely. I've had people, I'll be polite and say they're less than well informed, tell me they would vote for hillary, but when they found out that Rudy was also running that they would vote for him instead. Just like that, they converted to a Republican vote because of this man's reputation.

714 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:53:25pm

re: #660 bosforus

re: #622 Ginn

i was there, don't even try to act like you're not sexist with all your girlie girl ways

lol!

Bos.. how can I be sexist against my own gender?

715 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:54:17pm

re: #706 Ginn

Not me.

you know, cruelty to mimes is the last refuge of the witless.
hahaha...or was that puns?

716 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:54:50pm

re: #715 mondoreb

re: #706 Ginn

Not me.
you know, cruelty to mimes is the last refuge of the witless.
hahaha...or was that puns?

Sometimes... you have to be cruel to be kind... to mimes.

717 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:55:40pm

re: #716 Ginn

a truly different take. One I'll consider.

718 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:55:59pm

re: #707 Highrise

I know what you mean about High School, although I have to admit I was remarkably polly-annish in those days (of course I finished HS more than a quarter century ago, so things may have gotten steamier in the meantime). Mostly I was tired of being around people who didn't care about learning or thinking or anything other than getting wasted (not that there's anything wrong with that). I just don't want to see our kids get the creativity and imagination pummeled out of them (as I see in college students every day). I don't want them to lose their love of learning because of the educational system.

719 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:56:04pm

re: #703 lucius septimius

re: #696 Highrise

Scary looking in these sense of politics, or appearance?


Both.

Put yourself in the dem shoes, if you were to try to be all politicy as a dem to position yourself as one of those that questions things..who would you not want to mess with as a vp and would make you rethink going after the president for impeachment unless there was a damn good reason?

720 bosforus  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:56:27pm

re: #714 Ginn

re: #660 bosforus

re: #622 Ginn

i was there, don't even try to act like you're not sexist with all your girlie girl ways

lol!

Bos.. how can I be sexist against my own gender?

you're so brainwashed that you're sexist and you don't even know it. it's sad. don't be cute, don't flirt, don't like muscles, and don't find men interesting!

721 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:56:47pm

re: #717 mondoreb

so what do they do in the lizard lounge? I was in there and only one person talked...that I could see anyway.

722 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:56:49pm
723 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:57:06pm

re: #711 squarepeg

Good evening to you. Is this not more or less consistent with the comments by Rudy that I sent you a while back?

724 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:57:23pm

re: #720 bosforus

re: #714 Ginn

re: #660 bosforus
re: #622 Ginn

i was there, don't even try to act like you're not sexist with all your girlie girl ways

lol!

Bos.. how can I be sexist against my own gender?

you're so brainwashed that you're sexist and you don't even know it. it's sad. don't be cute, don't flirt, don't like muscles, and don't find men interesting!

I think I was blindsided by a closeted feminist!

725 big L  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:57:48pm

Unfortunately he is wishy-washy on immigration. But he is thonly one with policy points and a list of advisors and acts like his can hit the ground running and governing. He is a lot better that hilary.No matter his stance on AB or migra, we can elect the congress / or do the border and choice thing ourselves, the american people.REagan never appeared withthe choice forces only clled them onthe phone each pared-year event.
I recall he sigend a Calif law on ABs that was liberal when gov of calif. and even GOP presidents appoint crap rino judges in sheeps robes.But nowe there is a great group of Conservative juges to choiose from and I think rudy will choose from them.
Hill won't.
at least rudy puts out papers and the list of advisors to see. None of the others have.

726 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:57:56pm

re: #720 bosforus

re: #714 Ginn

re: #660 bosforus

re: #622 Ginn

i was there, don't even try to act like you're not sexist with all your girlie girl ways

lol!

Bos.. how can I be sexist against my own gender?

you're so brainwashed that you're sexist and you don't even know it. it's sad. don't be cute, don't flirt, don't like muscles, and don't find men interesting!

Nothing worse than a Gender-Traitor.

727 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:58:00pm

re: #710 Purple Fury

On this issue, Rudy is the only truly serious candidate in the race right now. It's not even a race really.


See, this is the problem I see...that is not true. I think several candidates would fit the bill. It's too early to say they are all out of the race except him. I don't want to be like the dems and just crown hillary...or be a republican type and crown rudy.

I'm not against Rudy (and will vote for him if he's the nominee) but he is NOT the only one that could possibly win nor has the balls to fight jihadists. He is among them for sure..but Not the ONLY one.

Putting one person on a pedestal...is bad.

728 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:58:14pm

re: #721 mondoreb

re: #717 mondoreb

so what do they do in the lizard lounge? I was in there and only one person talked...that I could see anyway.

It must be Quiet Time?

729 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:58:33pm

re: #710 Purple Fury


Rudy's Foreign Policy team is top notch, and this article is another convincing argument for giving this man the nomination.

730 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:59:02pm

re: #726 lucius septimius

Nothing worse than a Gender-Traitor.

I just found that out!

731 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:59:04pm

re: #711 squarepeg

I'm going to have to find that article stating the drop from 66% to 54%, I should have saved it. It's probably been expunged from the internet though because it doesn't fit the Leftist/MSM template that says that Hispanics can't be conservative.

732 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:59:08pm

re: #724 Ginn

I think I was blindsided by a closeted feminist!

Coulda been a corseted feminist. That would be a tight spot!

733 blackpajamas  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 9:59:51pm

re: #721 mondoreb

re: #717 mondoreb

so what do they do in the lizard lounge? I was in there and only one person talked...that I could see anyway.

Talk about the mortgage bond market, and other forms of 3rd grade humor.

734 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:00:28pm

re: #728 Ginn

re: #721 mondoreb

re: #717 mondoreb

so what do they do in the lizard lounge? I was in there and only one person talked...that I could see anyway.

It must be Quiet Time?

re: #728 Ginn

re: #721 mondoreb

re: #717 mondoreb

so what do they do in the lizard lounge? I was in there and only one person talked...that I could see anyway.

It must be Quiet Time?

I'll go scope it out. See what's what.

735 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:00:41pm

re: #728 Ginn

I don't know...seemed awful quiet...like I said, I'm still getting the hang of this place, but I like the environment that's been set up...kinda like a place I was in during 2000-1.

736 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:00:50pm

re: #724 Ginn

You're being un-feminised? Can I have your unused smelling salts?

737 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:01:07pm

re: #614 ChenZhen

General Chen, I can't advocate civil war and can only speak for myself but seriously this world would be much better off if about 10MM of your kin magically disappeared off to Oz. Of course, we all want the peaceful approach as Michael Corleone used to state.

You guys are such a drag on society I don't know how many more sleds the workers can continue to pull for the freeloaders and the KKKos slugs.

738 bosforus  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:01:11pm

re: #724 Ginn

if you don't mind my asking, did she start to private message you about it?

739 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:01:32pm

re: #736 Sharmuta

re: #724 Ginn

You're being un-feminised? Can I have your unused smelling salts?

Good call -- they're useful for de-icing the front steps.

740 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:01:45pm

re: #721 mondoreb

re: #717 mondoreb

so what do they do in the lizard lounge? I was in there and only one person talked...that I could see anyway.

Hey mondoreb,

It's really hit and miss. I love the lizard lounge but pop in every now and again. I have had some great times there. Doesnt mean that has been every time there. Don't be afraid to pop in and then pop out if it isn't happening for ya.

741 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:01:55pm

re: #733 blackpajamas

Talk about the mortgage bond market, and other forms of 3rd grade humor.

hmmm...looked pretty big.
Maybe they just need some new curtains.
Or a few more throw pillows.

742 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:03:18pm

re: #740 Highrise

It's really hit and miss. I love the lizard lounge but pop in every now and again. I have had some great times there. Doesnt mean that has been every time there. Don't be afraid to pop in and then pop out if it isn't happening for ya.

See?
That's one of the things I like around here. Everyone's helpful with the info.
Thanx!

743 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:05:32pm

re: #737 goodbye_natalie


No one advocated civil war. he just twisted it as usual.

744 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:06:16pm

They're talking Linux.

Zzzz

745 Ledger1  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:06:21pm

If Rudy can see through the taqiyya then he will get my vote.

For the other Republican contenders I would ask them one question:

Can You Define Taqiyya?

If they cannot define taqiyya immediately then they should not be in the running for President of the United States.

Too many statesmen assume they are dealing with honest opponents who will up hold an agreement. Sadly, most Middle Eastern diplomats cannot. They believe taqyiyya is a legitimate reason for deception.

If you cannot spot taqiyya then stay out of the game.

746 lucius septimius  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:06:38pm

re: #743 Highrise

And this is unusual how?

Gotta go -- can't keep up with you PDT folks.

747 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:07:04pm

re: #723 lucius septimius

re: #711 squarepeg

Good evening to you. Is this not more or less consistent with the comments by Rudy that I sent you a while back?

Very much so! Good evening to you, too, sir.

748 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:07:05pm

re: #743 Highrise

Well, General Chen can twist himself over to Oz.

749 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:07:49pm

re: #745 Ledger1

If Rudy can see through the taqiyya then he will get my vote.

Handing the saudi's their money back wasn't enough?

750 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:08:04pm

re: #735 mondoreb

re: #728 Ginn

I don't know...seemed awful quiet...like I said, I'm still getting the hang of this place, but I like the environment that's been set up...kinda like a place I was in during 2000-1.

It goes in waves... it's fun.

751 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:08:27pm

re: #745 Ledger1

If you cannot spot taqiyya then stay out of the game.

haha I can't disagree with that!

752 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:09:29pm

re: #712 Ginn

What I see that I didn't notice before is that he seems to flip-flop...and after Skerry Kerry? This is going to be, I think, an election where we will all feel so battered that I am afraid some voters, possibly a lot, will just not vote.

It is still a very long time til next November, and election fatigue seems to be here earlier than usual. I fear that burn-out will follow.

Living near NYC on 9/11? My memories and opinions re Rudy were all connected to that day. And he did clean up the mess that made the roads, etc., look like a garbage dump in a Third World nation.Bloomberg is neglecting it, and it is a mess again.

That said,this claim, which he retracted when the reaction was so strong, was one of the first shadows of doubt:

Rudy to sick 9/11 workers: I was at Ground Zero as much as you were; Update: Rudy “clarifies”

That was a patent lie, and the hurt he inflicted upon the families and especially the workers who spent so many months..and still work on the rubble...and the numbers of those who are either very sick or have died from what they inhaled? It is simply unforgivable.

In not that long, it will be the sixth anniversary of 9/11, and people are still dying, not from the horrific events of that day, but from being heroes...

Damn, that single claim is just reprehensible.

I am off to sleep...it is after 1 AM here!

G'nite, all.

753 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:09:29pm

re: #736 Sharmuta

re: #724 Ginn

You're being un-feminised? Can I have your unused smelling salts?

Sure. lol!

754 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:09:33pm

re: #744 Ginn

They're talking Linux.

Lucy's brother!
From Peanuts!

755 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:10:04pm

re: #748 goodbye_natalie

Personally, after seeing what he wrote about charles?

You people will have to excuse me, I don't generally say this, but he can fuck off.

I feel that strongly about the entry I read...anyone who tries to cast charles in a fucked up light..can really kiss the big Rosie O. one and goes on my ignore list.

Charles has my complete respect for what service he gives to the US of A.

756 NY Nana  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:10:38pm

re: #727 Highrise

Ditto...I agree.

G'nite!

757 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:10:39pm

re: #750 Ginn

It goes in waves... it's fun.

Like the beach...cool!

758 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:10:47pm

Ok.. off to lounge!

759 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:11:06pm

re: #753 Ginn

Why, thank you kindly. I have always relied on the kindness of strangers.

760 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:11:19pm

re: #731 DesertSage

Oh, I believe the drop. I think you're right about how it's the older Hispanics, however, who vote Republican. I think younger ones are under the spell of that Mecha/La Raza/Aztlan/Villaraigosa moonshine.

761 CmdrGuard  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:12:06pm

Only Guiliani can save this country. No other candidate, republican and especially no democrat, has what it takes to defend the source of individual freedom in the world, the United States.

762 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:13:08pm

re: #759 Sharmuta

re: #753 Ginn

Why, thank you kindly. I have always relied on the kindness of strangers.

You're welcome, Sharm.

It was my pleasure.

763 squarepeg  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:13:25pm

Okay, off to bed! nite all.

764 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:14:14pm

re: #762 Ginn

Sharmuta is the bomb!

765 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:14:30pm

re: #755 Highrise

See, General Chen is one of the new "civilized" inbred libs. Ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing and he does a fine job of fooling some of the people in here because he's polite.

Barack Obama is very "polite" too. And not to be trusted.

766 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:14:44pm

re: #764 DesertSage

No Sage- you and Rudy are the bomb.

767 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:14:53pm

re: #763 squarepeg

g'nite squarepeg

768 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:18:05pm

re: #755 Highrise

Link?

/I have a bad feeling about this

769 Murqtaad  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:18:21pm

Is anyone really excited about these republican idiots? What a pathetic field. And the Dems are exponentially worse.

770 Murqtaad  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:20:04pm

Sharm! The love of my life!

And Sage, I leave end of Oct, start of Nov for Paris Island.

771 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:20:26pm

re: #768 Sharmuta

Sharmuta,

I hope you are shocked..but you should get the link from cbinflux or sage.

After that, chen has been a scroll bye...fucker.

And I don't say the F word..lightly.

I"m really truly pissed he's still allowed to post here..but it's Charles' sandbox and he has so far allowed the ass to post here. Get the link from them though..I refuse to book mark it.

772 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:23:01pm

I'm not one who drinks the coolaid of Charles..but let me tell you..people who dis him with stupidity..really piss me off.

I thank him for his patriotism..I think Charles performs a great service to this country..and those that trash him without cause are enemies to me.

773 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:24:13pm

re: #769 Murqtaad

No. I feel the same way you do except I would substitute "opportunists" in place of idiots; except for the Dims were idiots makes a perfect descriptor.

If I were military, I would be aghast at the selection for 2008.

I will give Rudy one thing. He's politically astute - in that aspect he probably makes a great opponent for Sir Hillary and I believe if he minds his Ps and Qs the next 15 months, will win.

774 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:25:21pm

re: #770 Murqtaad

Hi Murqy. I might need some of what your drinking tonight.

775 blackpajamas  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:26:50pm

While Victor Davis Hanson has the following to say about the New Republic:

"The New Republic has lost whatever credibility it had regained after its embarrassment several years ago of printing false stories by Stephen Glass, the lying reporter who likewise used anonymous sources."

I will remind our gentle readers of the following:

"In late 1941, the New Republic published a special issue, "Russia Today", in which various liberal icons, such as Roger Baldwin, founder of the Civil Liberties Union, told readers that Russia was a democratic society because it had achieved, "economic democracy." -Flemming, NDW, "Red Star Rising".

Just like Chavez is about to deepen the Bolivarian Democracy!

Ain't the liberal press just grand!

776 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:27:36pm

were/where. Obviously time to go to bed. Night all...

777 Murqtaad  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:28:15pm

re: #773 goodbye_natalie

re: #769 Murqtaad

No. I feel the same way you do except I would substitute "opportunists" in place of idiots; except for the Dims were idiots makes a perfect descriptor.

If I were military, I would be aghast at the selection for 2008.

I will give Rudy one thing. He's politically astute - in that aspect he probably makes a great opponent for Sir Hillary and I believe if he minds his Ps and Qs the next 15 months, will win.


I JUST JOINED!

778 Murqtaad  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:28:58pm

re: #774 Sharmuta


I got it all. You want a rum and coke or a beer?

779 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:29:01pm

cbinflux
desertsage

post that link that chen had about charles.

I won't ever forget it.

It completely turned me.

780 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:29:22pm

re: #770 Murqtaad

Sharm! The love of my life!

And Sage, I leave end of Oct, start of Nov for Paris Island.

You're kidding, really? That's great! I didn't even know you were thinking about enlisting.
Paris Island is really tough (so I've heard, I went to San Diego). It won't be so bad in the fall because it will be cooler. Summertime is hell there.

You will keep posting when you get out of boot camp and get your Eagle, Globe and Anchor won't you?

781 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:29:39pm

re: #777 Murqtaad

You did? Way to go, Murg! Thank you and God bless you!

/What branch?

782 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:30:48pm

I'm sorry- that should have been a Q.

783 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:30:59pm

re: #770 Murqtaad

Sharm! The love of my life!

And Sage, I leave end of Oct, start of Nov for Paris Island.


Complete and utter respect for you my friend.

/salute

Thank you for your upcoming service to our great country.

784 goodbye_natalie  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:31:10pm

re: #777 Murqtaad

LOL. Sorry I was just logging off and noticed your comment. I did think of one I liked but he isn't going to get nominated: Duncan Hunter.

And I like Huckabee. He's a good man too.

P.S. - you have my thanks for your service. You guys, gals and your families are the best. Thanks for protecting this old man and his family.

785 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:32:32pm

re: #784 goodbye_natalie

I like huckabee but why does he look like gomer pyle? lol.

786 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:34:19pm

re: #779 Highrise

cbinflux
desertsage

post that link that chen had about charles.

I won't ever forget it.

It completely turned me.

I'm sorry Highrise, I can't. He's a non-person to me now. He doesn't even exist as far as I'm concerned, not after what he did to me a few nights ago.

787 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:35:36pm

re: #781 Sharmuta

re: #777 Murqtaad

You did? Way to go, Murg! Thank you and God bless you!

/What branch?

Perris Island Sharm!

788 lowandslow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:36:37pm

re: #785 Highrise

re: #784 goodbye_natalie

I like huckabee but why does he look like gomer pyle? lol.

Well gooolly!

789 bosforus  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:36:50pm

Earlier today hous bin pharteen posted more related to the story about the pipe bombers in FL from the Palm Beach Post.

A Boynton Beach police officer pulled over Kramer's gold Nissan Sentra about 2:20 a.m. and spotted the bombs inside a Taco Bell bag on the floorboard.

Well today, amazingly, while stopping at an am/pm for a soda I stumbled on what appears to be an alarming trend of a new kind of bomb.
The Burrito Bomb

790 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:37:13pm

re: #786 DesertSage

Sage- I'd like to see it, please.

791 scotch  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:38:55pm

#765 goodbye_natalie

Give general chen a break. It went to a sandal party and lost:)

Sex Sandals

A married couple walked in to a sandal shop. The Jamaican said to them, "I have some special sandals I think you would be interested in. Dey make you wild at sex."

Well, the wife was really interested in buying the sandals after what he
man claimed, but her husband felt he really didn't need them, being the
sex god he was. The husband asked the man, "How could sandals make you into a sex freak?"

The Jamaican replied, "Just try dem on, Mon."

So, the husband, after some badgering from his wife, finally gave in, and tried them on.

As soon as he slipped them onto his feet, he got this wild look in his
eyes, something his wife hadn't seen in many years!

In the blink of an eye, the husband grabbed the Jamaican, bent him
violently over a table, yanked down his pant s, ripped down his own pants, and grabbed a firm hold of the Jamaican's hips.

The Jamaican then began screaming, "You got dem on the wrong feet!

/tired of the fuck-sticks

792 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:39:04pm

re: #787 DesertSage

Sorry- Semper Fi.

793 blackpajamas  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:40:28pm

re: #789 bosforus

Well today, amazingly, while stopping at an am/pm for a soda I stumbled on what appears to be an alarming trend of a new kind of bomb.
The Burrito Bomb

Demanding more up-armoring, plumbers have been ringing Congressional phones lines off the hook.

794 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:41:30pm

re: #786 DesertSage

re: #779 Highrise


cbinflux
desertsage

post that link that chen had about charles.

I won't ever forget it.

It completely turned me.


I'm sorry Highrise, I can't. He's a non-person to me now. He doesn't even exist as far as I'm concerned, not after what he did to me a few nights ago.

I stand by you as well..chen can F off. YOu and I may disagree on some minor things..but this ...I stand by you STAUNCHLY my friend.

I guess it's up to Cbinflux now.

chen doesn't exist...effer

795 bosforus  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:43:24pm

re: #793 blackpajamas

i certainly wouldn't want to be around when that bomb goes off inside of someone

796 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:43:36pm

re: #791 scotch'


after the shit I have read...I will never give chen a break. ANd anyone that backs him..seriously should consider another blog. I hate people who trash the blog owner with stupid shit..and c hen is that.

I seroiusly try to wait till I know all the facts..I believe I have them..and chen is shit to me.

Anyone who backs him if they read his tripe on charles..I will question.

797 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:45:07pm

I rarely take this strong of a stance..but I read what I read...it's enough.

798 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:45:54pm

Is this on his blog?

799 scotch  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:47:29pm

Highrise

Read the post.

/ain't giving 'cousin it' it a break

800 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:47:35pm

re: #794 Highrise

You and I are on the same page on this one.

For everyone else...'nuff said.

801 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:49:48pm

re: #799 scotch

Highrise

Read the post.

/ain't giving 'cousin it' it a break

gotcha :)

802 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:50:38pm

re: #798 Sharmuta

E-mail me.

803 Highrise  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:51:19pm

cbinflux

If you have the goods..deliver them :P

I know I learned a lot from that IP..changed my tude.

804 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:53:31pm

re: #802 DesertSage

Done.

805 AirForceWife  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 10:54:38pm

#267 carefulnow 8/15/2007 7:34:34 pm PDT

re: #251 mondoreb
Funny, if crude.
Seriously, choices have to be made; we can't have it all. Rudy actually appeals to a lot of Democrats because of his stances on social issues. I just wonder how he's gonna pay for everything he wants. If we have Democrats in both houses and Rudy in the White House, how much more income tax am I gonna have to pay?

If the contest is to see who can be the most liberal, a democrat will win over a Republican every time. Why would a liberal democrat vote for a liberal Republican when he or she can have a liberal democrat?

If a Republican is going to capture democratic voters, it will be the more conservative, patriotic ones that usually would like to vote Republican because of social or natl security issues but end up voting democrat because of labor vs. business issues. The worst possible strategy for a Republican running for President is to get into a who can be the most liberal contest. A democrat will win that one every time.

This type of thing goes both ways. I am starting to believe that many of those that vote Republican would like to vote for a democrat because of social issues but end up voting Republican because of natl security concerns. Those of us that are true conservatives better start making the elections about conservative vs. liberal instead of Republican vs. democrat or the country will just continue to slide to the left. We have two conservatives that appeal to both Republican and democratic conservatives and the party has disregarded them from the get go. Makes no sense whatsoever.

806 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:01:38pm

re: #805 AirForceWife

Just like we had Reagan Democrats in the 80's, I think we will see Rudy Democrats in '08.

807 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:07:08pm

re: #806 DesertSage

We will.

808 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:07:29pm

Rudy mah man.

He may be nobody's idea of a perfect candidate, but I think he may be an excellent candidate and an excellent chief executive and commander in chief.

809 itellu3times  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:07:58pm

Late in the thread tho my saying so might be.

810 AirForceWife  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:09:39pm

#769 Murqtaad 8/15/2007 10:18:21 pm PDT reply quote report

Is anyone really excited about these republican idiots? What a pathetic field. And the Dems are exponentially worse.

My husband was absolutely stunned today when I told him about Obama saying that we need to do more in Afghanistan than just air raiding villages and killing a bunch of civilians. The response went something like...does he understand anything at all about how every single target we strike has to have PID (positive Identification) and CDE ( collateral damage assessment)? How often we have PID coming in from multiple sources and yet the mission gets called off because the high value target ends up in a location where civilians would get killed? If the person we are after is a high value target and is in a car and we aren't 100% sure that those with him are bad players, the car might be taken out because it is so likely that those associating with him are also up to no good. If that same high value target was to walk into some market though, the mission would be scrapped even though we could have taken him out.

What kind of PID and CDE went on in WWll?
Yep...we're over Berlin...bombs away!

The worst part is that if he really believed our military was over there just killing a bunch of civilians, there are are ways he could educate himself about what really happens. As a Senator, he could go to the pentagon and hold discussions with Generals and find out how they do things. He is playing a game and unfortunately a large percentage of our population just buys right into that crap.

811 blackpajamas  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:10:37pm

"Updated: If a Jew Had Outed Plame..."

"Update: I din't keep track of my Scooter Libby trivia. Scooter Libby is a jew. He is also a high kleagle in the Bush admin which, I think, supersedes jew as his group description. None the less I removed the Jew portion of this diary because it doesn't make complete sense."

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

812 Murqtaad  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:10:58pm

re: #780 DesertSage

re: #770 Murqtaad


Sharm! The love of my life!

And Sage, I leave end of Oct, start of Nov for Paris Island.


You're kidding, really? That's great! I didn't even know you were thinking about enlisting.
Paris Island is really tough (so I've heard, I went to San Diego). It won't be so bad in the fall because it will be cooler. Summertime is hell there.

You will keep posting when you get out of boot camp and get your Eagle, Globe and Anchor won't you?

Thought I told you. Winter at P.I. should be livable.

813 Murqtaad  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:13:41pm

re: #810 AirForceWife


No. They dont get it.

814 mondoreb  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:16:15pm

Thanx Ginn

815 Murqtaad  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:18:23pm

re: #810 AirForceWife


This aint yer granddaddy's war, tho i WISH IT WERE...

816 DesertSage  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:20:05pm

re: #811 blackpajamas

"Updated: If a Jew Had Outed Plame..."

"Update: I din't keep track of my Scooter Libby trivia. Scooter Libby is a jew. He is also a high kleagle in the Bush admin which, I think, supersedes jew as his group description. None the less I removed the Jew portion of this diary because it doesn't make complete sense."

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Holy Shi'ite, I just read the comments over at Kos, those people are actually dumber then I originally thought.

Now I need to wash my brain out with bleach and go to sleep, g'nite all.

817 MrC_5150  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:20:15pm

#38 "Rudy has shown so much strength in the terrorism front. Both in words and in action. Remember telling some Arab to take there money ($25 mil as I recall) and shove it. Can't remember who it was too."

Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal. He's now part owner of FOX News.

Fox's Saudi Prince

818 DistantThunder  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:22:45pm

Obama needs to hear loud and clear how he's already screwing up, over and over. it's just like brain surgery...you want the surgeon whose hands don't shake.

819 freedomplow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:24:11pm

Murqtaad

I am so proud of you.

820 Ginn  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:25:46pm

#759 Sharmuta 8/15/2007 10:11:06 pm PDT

re: #753 Ginn

Why, thank you kindly. I have always relied on the kindness of strangers.

Some strangers are kind without cause. You are one these, Sharmuta.
If I had talent I would write a story for you.

Ginn

821 AirForceWife  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:26:33pm

#810...meant to type (collateral damage estimation). Way too tired for this but my time free of children is rare and usually late when I am tired.

822 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:29:18pm

re: #820 Ginn

You are so sweet. No wonder I love you.

/You do have talent.

823 carefulnow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:30:31pm

re: #805 AirForceWife
Rudy has a lot of cross over appeal because he sounds tough on foreign policy while sounding liberal on social issues. How big a part will registered Independents and Decline-to-States play? Aside from Ron Paul, Rudy is liked the best by "Reagan Democrats" I'd bet.

824 Pawn of the Oppressor  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:30:59pm

re: #816 DesertSage

re: #811 blackpajamas


"Updated: If a Jew Had Outed Plame..."

"Update: I din't keep track of my Scooter Libby trivia. Scooter Libby is a jew. He is also a high kleagle in the Bush admin which, I think, supersedes jew as his group description. None the less I removed the Jew portion of this diary because it doesn't make complete sense."

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]


Holy Shi'ite, I just read the comments over at Kos, those people are actually dumber then I originally thought.

Now I need to wash my brain out with bleach and go to sleep, g'nite all.

I saw the Big Lebowski again on TV last week for the first time in several years.

Every time I see a HuffDUKosian use the word "Jew" I think of the scene in the parking lot where they beat up the Nihilists...

Walter draws fist back
"Anti-Semite!"
*WHAM*

825 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:32:59pm

re: #819 freedomplow

Murqtaad

I am so proud of you.

I am too, Murqy. I think you've make all of LGF proud.

826 blackpajamas  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:33:14pm

"Radical Fundamentalist Muslims and Radical Fundamentalist Christians"

"Look, you guys pretty much like the same things. You like your women barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen, and if they have to go outside (to do the shopping) you want them completely covered so they won't accidentally seduce some unsuspecting man who simply can't help himself. You guys both hate the Jews. You are both in perpetual denial about how many of you are gay, even when its obvious to everyone else, and yet for some reason, you guys are always trying to destroy each other."

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

But heh, it's tagged with "Snark", so that makes everything OK...

827 freedomplow  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:40:14pm

The United States of America will not allow our world to collapse into chaos and slavery.

Those days are over!

Bet on it!

828 AirForceWife  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:45:51pm

#815 Murqtaad 8/15/2007 11:18:23 pm PDT reply quote report
re: #810 AirForceWife


This aint yer granddaddy's war, tho i WISH IT WERE...

Because too many people have fooled themselves into believing that the nature of warfare has changed just because we now have so much more precision. It's great that we have the precision weaponry and targeted bombings, but as long as the fear of collateral damage limits our actions, the enemies will continue to use this to their advantage and deny us victory. It's not fair to send people to war and then deny them victory. I thought we learned that lesson from Korea and Vietnam. Apparantly the learning curve took a big dive somewhere along the line.

829 Sharmuta  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:50:05pm

Pakistan says it thwarted anniversary suicide attacks

Pakistan's security forces thwarted suicide attacks on celebrations marking the 60th anniversary of the country's independence, arresting several "would-be suicide bombers," officials said.

830 blackpajamas  Wed, Aug 15, 2007 11:53:03pm

Ya know, for a website that claims it has no problems with anti-semitism, it makes me wonder why they needed to go to the trouble of creating this:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Daily Kos Israel Palestine Proposed Rules.
by Eternal Hope
Fri May 18, 2007 at 04:16:21 PM PDT

"If you are not interested in the I/P issues, please leave this diary now and don't read another word. But for those of you who want a return to sanity in this debate, read on.

Hunter has given an ultimatum saying that those of us on the I/P issue must either come up with a way to work together and lay the groundwork for a healthy debate on the issues, or face a complete ban on the topic here at Daily Kos.

With that in mind, I am going to lay out proposed rules for conduct in these debates, and see what people think. If these rules get passed by two thirds of the community, then we will adopt them as our rules for the future."

"Here are the specific restrictions for the Pro-Palestinian posters:

1. No Israel = Nazism allegations.
2. No hijacking of Holocaust diaries.
3. No advocacy of terrorism.
4. No references to holocaust deniers or anti-semites.
5. No accusations of plants.
6. No claims that the Jews control the government.
7. No ethnic cleansing allegations"

Here are the proposed rules for the pro-Israel posters:

1. No accusations at people of hating Israel.
2. No "Poor Me" Syndrome.
3. No collective blame.
4. No "You Lost" rhetoric.
5. No accusing people of supporting Israel's destruction.
6. No blanket anti-semitism accusations.
7. No sockpuppetry allegations.
8. No "Higher Standard" allegations."

Nobody says, "Don't do X," when nobody was doing X.

Markos Moulitsas, you have big time anti-semite problems at the DailyKos.

Hillary Clinton debauches her party and the American political process by associating with you and your website.

Apologize.