ABC: "Iraq like Vietnam..."

In that we report exactly the same way we did during Vietnam...

These people refuse to even TRY to get it. Bush said Iraq and Vietnam in the same sentence, so he MUST mean it's lost and we need to get out.

I hate these people.

Assholes. Matbe we'd watch if the got something right every now and then.

I thought Iraqetnam/Bushnixon was the self-fulfilling prophecy of the media, not Bush himself?

Take a page from Rove and send some cookies. If that's not your thing, how 'bout a burning bag of dog doo.

Best speech I've heard from the big guy. Long overdue.

This is my first post as a new hatchling... I'm so proud. I just want to thank everyone for making this possible and thank the Lizard in charge for letting me into the great lizardiod conspiracy... The first zionist paycheck just came in and I can't wait to take my place as a professional oppressor of the downtrodden, weak and powerless.

Well BBC..er I mean ABC does it's usual *fibbing*. And they wonder why people are turning to the internet for news. Clueless.

The only similarity I see in this situation to Vietnam is that if we leave, these people will suffer reprisal, Massacre, hideous death and then failed statehood. The survivors will live in poverty, under a reign of terror imposed by outside forces.

Dunno. Other than that, its not really the same.

Iraq is not a war. It's a media game.
Nothing the insurgency can do is significant militarily. It all directed at the Western press...it's the enemy's only chance.

Lies from ABC again..

..this is what he said and meant...The world would learn just how costly these misimpressions would be. In Cambodia, the Khmer Rouge began a murderous rule in which hundreds of thousands of Cambodians died by starvation and torture and execution. In Vietnam, former allies of the United States and government workers and intellectuals and businessmen were sent off to prison camps, where tens of thousands perished. Hundreds of thousands more fled the country on rickety boats, many of them going to their graves in the South China Sea.

Three decades later, there is a legitimate debate about how we got into the Vietnam War and how we left. There's no debate in my mind that the veterans from Vietnam deserve the high praise of the United States of America. (Applause.) Whatever your position is on that debate, one unmistakable legacy of Vietnam is that the price of America's withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens whose agonies would add to our vocabulary new terms like "boat people," "re-education camps," and "killing fields."

There was another price to our withdrawal from Vietnam, and we can hear it in the words of the enemy we face in today's struggle -- those who came to our soil and killed thousands of citizens on September the 11th, 2001. In an interview with a Pakistani newspaper after the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden declared that "the American people had risen against their government's war in Vietnam. And they must do the same today."

His number two man, Zawahiri, has also invoked Vietnam. In a letter to al Qaeda's chief of operations in Iraq, Zawahiri pointed to "the aftermath of the collapse of the American power in Vietnam and how they ran and left their agents."

Zawahiri later returned to this theme, declaring that the Americans "know better than others that there is no hope in victory. The Vietnam specter is closing every outlet." Here at home, some can argue our withdrawal from Vietnam carried no price to American credibility -- but the terrorists see it differently.

[Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]

I watched this speech this morning and for the first time in a long time I was firmly behind the POTUS. I thought the speech was excellent and would like to get a copy of it so that I can read it again. I felt hopeful for the USA and the Iraqi people.

The left never ceases to disgust me.

re: #8 Karagush

Dunno. Other than that, its not really the same.

Except that once again, the same kinds of people do their best to fuck everything up and then shout "Look! It's fucked up!"

"It's just like Viet-nam II: Quagmiah in the desit", starring Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, and a bunch of other assholes who don't know anything about military history.

Even the BBC got it right.

Bush issues Vietnam warning over Iraq
President Bush says a US pullout from Iraq could spark the kind of upheaval that followed the Vietnam War.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

I will say a prayer for the families of these 14 Americans who died in some type of vehicle crash today.

I suppose Iraq is like Vietnam in some ways.

I question their patriotism. I really do.

re: #11 Lioness

I watched this speech this morning and for the first time in a long time I was firmly behind the POTUS. I thought the speech was excellent and would like to get a copy of it so that I can read it again. I felt hopeful for the USA and the Iraqi people.

See my link at #10...copy there.

re: #13 Pawn of the Oppressor

re: #8 Karagush

Dunno. Other than that, its not really the same.

Except that once again, the same kinds of people do their best to fuck everything up and then shout "Look! It's fucked up!"

"It's just like Viet-nam II: Quagmiah in the desit", starring Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, and a bunch of other assholes who don't know anything about military history.

i was being tongue in cheek... sorry. my sense of humour tends towards the dry.

re: #8 Karagush

The only similarity I see in this situation to Vietnam is that if we leave, these people will suffer reprisal, Massacre, hideous death and then failed statehood. The survivors will live in poverty, under a reign of terror imposed by outside forces.

Dunno. Other than that, its not really the same.

That is precisely what Bush said. But as someone else said, he mentioned Vietnam and Iraq in the same speech so he is fair game for the headline makers.

re: #16 vacuumjockey

I question their patriotism. I really do.

And deep down underneath their liberal psychosis, they question their patriotism also...uh...we hope.

re: #5 Ziggy

Take a page from Rove and send some cookies. If that's not your thing, how 'bout a burning bag of dog doo.

Would you eat cookies made by Karl Rove?

"Karl, are you sure these don't contain some sort of experimental CIA mind control drug?"

Mmmm, Republican Mind-Control Cookies

When the U.S. left Vietnam we were winning. If we decide to get out of Iraq now, then we will be making the same mistake. Iraq, like Vietnam is a war that can be won. Let's not let the leftard cowards and the MSM traitors hand this country another loss.

re: #17 storagemanager
Thanks!

The left has sought to make this Vietnam II, but unfortunately so has the right. By trying to fight the battle as a primarily political war they have proved they don't understand that you cannot convince the left and fallen into the same mistake we made in Vietnam -- not fighting the war to win. The surge is working and would have worked right from the beginning.

its the commitment, stupid!

re: #23 Lioness

re: #17 storagemanager
Thanks!

Anytime.

is this the same ABC that sent Ted Koppel to Vietnam during the 2004 election cycle to reminisce with former Cong soldiers about how fierce a warrior that Jon (Hanoi) Karry was ?

re: #20 Oh no...Sand People!

re: #16 vacuumjockey

I question their patriotism. I really do.

And deep down underneath their liberal psychosis, they question their patriotism also...uh...we hope.

Not "Anti-War"... On the other side.

Not "Progressive"... Anti-American.

That's all you need to know.

The death rattle of the msm just keeps going and going and ... Just shut up and die already!

re: #6 mpickut

welcome to the fold !

re: #16 vacuumjockey

I question their patriotism. I really do.

They have no patriotism to question, don't waste your time looking for something that never existed.

You can no more win a war as you can win an earthquake.

/Annoying quote of the day on the elevator screen.

The Turkish ambassador is set to end his vacation two weeks early to return to Israel and register Turkey's concerns about the Anti-Defamation League's statement that Turkish actions toward the Armenians from 1915-1918 were "tantamount to genocide," The Jerusalem Post has learned.

An article by the New York Times dated 15 December 1915 states that nearly one million Armenians had deliberately been put to death by the Ottoman government.
Photo: Courtesy
RELATED
Foxman: Armenian massacre was genocide
The decision to send Namik Tan back on Thursday came at a high-level meeting at the Turkish Foreign Ministry in Ankara on Wednesday. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is also expected to call Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in the coming days to discuss the matter.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

re: #35 taxfreekiller

time comes for them , all of them, it sees its chance, and the teeth are
very sharp, the hunger great, and such fat ass lazy liars, it will be an
easy catch and dinner

Time will eat them?

re: #35 taxfreekiller

time comes for them , all of them, it sees its chance, and the teeth are
very sharp, the hunger great, and such fat ass lazy liars, it will be an
easy catch and dinner

What?

re: #33 Ben Hur

You can no more win a war as you can win an earthquake.

/Annoying quote of the day on the elevator screen.

That's right, I see Confederate soldiers every day.

Not.

OldLineTexan

Reminds me of what the donks are trying to do to Jindal in Louisiana, just lie out their ass. They will make race and ethnicity an issue before its over as well.
The Party Of Tolerance

Piyush (as the donks like to remind everyone) "Bobby" Jindal for those who don't know him.

re: #33 Ben HurElevator screen? Whoever came up with that little pearl of wisdom doesn't know their history. Ask the Confederate States of America, The National Socialist Workers Party, if whoever wrote that can find them.

re: #37 Lioness

re: #35 taxfreekiller

time comes for them , all of them, it sees its chance, and the teeth are
very sharp, the hunger great, and such fat ass lazy liars, it will be an
easy catch and dinner

What?

TFK is LGF"s resident beat poet, just roll with it friend.

re: #6 mpickut

Welcome, and what the heck is with these Zionist paychecks I keep hearing about? Do I have to have one of my comments cherry picked by a koslim before before I'm officially on the payroll? Send me a W2 so I can sign up, I need the money.

re: #42 Thanos

re: #37 Lioness

re: #35 taxfreekiller

time comes for them , all of them, it sees its chance, and the teeth are
very sharp, the hunger great, and such fat ass lazy liars, it will be an
easy catch and dinner

What?

TFK is LGF"s resident beat poet, just roll with it friend.

Advise taken ~ rolling...

I saw this speech and I thought it was terrific.

It's the DNC media in action.

The pro-Democrat media.

But let's see-- - Iraq is like Vietnam -- the Deocrats want us to lose.

The Left wants Iraq to become like Vietnam. They couldn't care less about the Iraqi people; if they're slaughtered wholesale so much the better so far as the Democrats are concerned. The greater the slaughter, the greater the threat to all of western civilization, the more they can perversely blame one man, George Bush, and feel good about it all. It really doesn't matter if the world explodes so long as the Left can see America become emasculated and blame the all world's problems on one man. And they'll call it "peace."

re: #8 Karagush

The only similarity I see in this situation to Vietnam is that if we leave, these people will suffer reprisal, Massacre, hideous death and then failed statehood. The survivors will live in poverty, under a reign of terror imposed by outside forces.

Dunno. Other than that, its not really the same.

Hi Kara..

That's what Bush said in his speech. The lessons we learned from Vietnam and then he told the Vietnam Vets that America honors their service.

It was speech about democracy and he spoke about Japan and S. Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq.

It was a good speech no matter how the MSM spins it.

re: #45 Ginn

I saw this speech and I thought it was terrific.

Did you feel a sense of hope? I also believe that the POTUS is well aware of what and who we are fighting.

Storemanager has a link to the speech on his post #10 for anyone who would like to read it.

At a meeting held in New York by the Foreign Relations Committee of the Federation of Turkish American Associations Monday the incidents of 1915 were discussed. Pointing to attempts by Armenian circles to defame Turkish history, Turkey's Consul General to New York Mehmet Samsar urged Turkish Americans to lobby against the Armenian genocide bill at the U.S. Congress

. [Link: www.turkishdailynews.com.tr...]

Hi GINNY!
See above I was just being tongue in cheek. What I think I needed was a sarc tag . I forgot that not everyone may know my sense of humour tends towards the dry.

re: #10 storagemanager

Lies from ABC again..

The MSM response to the Duelfer Report was "No Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq." Their agenda is perfectly clear.

re: #49 Lioness

re: #45 Ginn

I saw this speech and I thought it was terrific.

Did you feel a sense of hope? I also believe that the POTUS is well aware of what and who we are fighting.

Storemanager has a link to the speech on his post #10 for anyone who would like to read it.

It was about hope...for the first time in a long time...I feel he knows the enemy...I didn't feel that way before.

re: #51 Karagush

Hi GINNY!
See above I was just being tongue in cheek. What I think I needed was a sarc tag . I forgot that not everyone may know my sense of humour tends towards the dry.

I read your post as being tongue and check!

War if Hell, period!

Maybe one day, ABC and the other lying msm will experience for themselves, why military service in the time of a very serious war, is important, because they, and all like them, have forgotten that freedom isn't free, and they can't accept the most basic fact of freedom, that ABC got their freedom of the press, not from the Constitution, not from the President, not from the Congress, not from the SCOTUS, not from the ACLU, but from,

The American Soldier!

The U.S. Constitution doesn't guarentee anything for Americans, the American Soldier does!

Always has, and as long as there is real freedom here, always will.

I saw this headline today on a TV at a restaurant (no sound). I just shrugged my shoulders and immediately knew that there's no way Bush made a direct comparison, and that the headline was obviously a MSM misdirection. I'm not a person in the middle of the bell curve when it comes to network viewership though.

Democrats love to invoke Viet Nam like their partners the Islamist love to invoke the Crusades.

Michael Dukakis has seen this script before: a Republican administration besieged by scandal and running out the clock on its second term, while wide-eyed Democrats confidently lick their chops, knowing there’s no way in hell voters will reward the G.O.P. with four more years in the White House.

It was around this very moment 20 years ago, the summer when Oliver North told Congress he was “authorized to do everything that I did” and Reagan fatigue took hold, that Mr. Dukakis, then the 53-year-old governor of Massachusetts, emerged at the head of a crowded Democratic presidential pack. By the time he was formally nominated in Atlanta the following July, he’d opened a 17-point lead over Vice President George H.W. Bush.

“I can handle this guy,” Mr. Dukakis supposedly replied around that time when John Sasso, his consultant in exile, asked to return to the campaign. “You worry about the first 100 days.”

So you can understand why the numerous harbingers of a triumphant 2008 for Democrats—George W. Bush’s Nixonian approval ratings, polls that show voters favoring a Democratic White House candidate by double-digit margins, the electorate’s historical aversion to three-term rule by one party—haven’t prompted Mr. Dukakis to begin planning his trip to the 2009 inaugural celebration

It was the helmet dude. [Link: www.observer.com...]

re: #49 Lioness

re: #45 Ginn

I saw this speech and I thought it was terrific.

Did you feel a sense of hope? I also believe that the POTUS is well aware of what and who we are fighting.

Storemanager has a link to the speech on his post #10 for anyone who would like to read it.

I've always believed this. We live in this fast food McDonald's world where if the war isn't won in 15 days, 15 months then according to our "dissenters" we've lost.

This brings hope to our enemies. Bush mentioned how Al_queda wrote to one another that we would fold and crumble.. just like Vietnam.

Two weeks after we invaded Iraq, a mere two weeks, Ted Kennedy was out calling it a quagmire.

John Kerry on Vietnam:

[Link: www.rushlimbaugh.com...]

The United States could have squashed North Vietnam like a bug.
We could utterly destroy Iraq if we wanted to.
But we are a benevolent super power that tries to defeat our enemies without inflicting too much suffering on the civilian population near the fighting.

Our enemies see this as weakness.
They did with Vietnam, and do now in Iraq.

Power to the Correct People!

Kerry Transcript:

KERRY: Let me just say to the first part of your question with respect to boat people and killing, everybody predicted a massive bloodbath in Vietnam. There was not a massive bloodbath in Vietnam. There were reeducation camps, and they weren't pretty and, you know, nobody, you know, likes that kind of outcome. But on the other hand, I've met lot of people today who were in those education camps, who are thriving in the Vietnam of today

re: #63 Ginn

Kerry Transcript:

KERRY: Let me just say to the first part of your question with respect to boat people and killing, everybody predicted a massive bloodbath in Vietnam. There was not a massive bloodbath in Vietnam. There were reeducation camps, and they weren't pretty and, you know, nobody, you know, likes that kind of outcome. But on the other hand, I've met lot of people today who were in those education camps, who are thriving in the Vietnam of today

But of course he left out the killing fields...the slaughter.

#64 storagemanager

I would love to see Sen. Kerry tell that to a friend of mine named Nguyen.

re: #21 Pawn of the Oppressor

re: #5 Ziggy

Take a page from Rove and send some cookies. If that's not your thing, how 'bout a burning bag of dog doo.

Would you eat cookies made by Karl Rove?

"Karl, are you sure these don't contain some sort of experimental CIA mind control drug?"

Mmmm, Republican Mind-Control Cookies

Perhaps some hash brownies

Since we have not been fighting this war to smash the enemy and win, a viscous 5th column has grown up.

Meanwhile Iran enriches uranium, and the madrassas in Saudi Arabia indoctrinate more jihadis.

At least the Nazis wore uniforms, and the Japanese painted the red rising sun on their kamakazies.

We will pay for our sleeping.

I would like to send cap'n majik hat to a "re-education camp" and see how he likes it. It could be ran by Rush, Ted Nugent, Michael Medved, Michael Reagan, and Jerry Doyle. With Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin helping out, you know to get "his mind right" (Cool Hand Luke).

re: #64 storagemanager

re: #63 Ginn

Kerry Transcript:

KERRY: Let me just say to the first part of your question with respect to boat people and killing, everybody predicted a massive bloodbath in Vietnam. There was not a massive bloodbath in Vietnam. There were reeducation camps, and they weren't pretty and, you know, nobody, you know, likes that kind of outcome. But on the other hand, I've met lot of people today who were in those education camps, who are thriving in the Vietnam of today

But of course he left out the killing fields...the slaughter.

He "parsed" it, storagemanager. If you notice he was referring to Vietnam. The Killing Fields were in Cambodia. He intentionally separated the two. See? No Killing Fields...

A bunch of old hippies and wannabe hippies have been frustrated because they had no Vietnam War to protest. Many of these old hippies and their groupies found that living in communes with nothing to protest led to hunger and boredom. They cut their hair and got jobs—some in the MSM. Along come the Iraq War. A new Vietnam. Something to protest. So, despite the myriad of differences between the two conflicts, they try and try to make this quarrel become a new Vietnam War.

#64 storagemanager

Nguyen went on to become an Army Ranger with the 1/75th Ranger Battalion.

It was his greatest wish to kill communists. They murdered his parents after we left. He came to Houston as an orphan, "boat-people".

Of course he'd tell you he's a Texan first and all American!

Oooh Rahhh!

re: #67 Ojoe

Since we have not been fighting this war to smash the enemy and win, a viscous 5th column has grown up.

Meanwhile Iran enriches uranium, and the madrassas in Saudi Arabia indoctrinate more jihadis.

At least the Nazis wore uniforms, and the Japanese painted the red rising sun on their kamakazies.

We will pay for our sleeping.

You are right.

Iraq is like Vietnam in that we have overly restrictive rules of engagement, both tactical and strategic.

re: #71 BulgarWheat

#64 storagemanager

Nguyen went on to become an Army Ranger with the 1/75th Ranger Battalion.

It was his greatest wish to kill communists. They murdered his parents after we left. He came to Houston as an orphan, "boat-people".

Of course he'd tell you he's a Texan first and all American!

Oooh Rahhh!

God bless him.

Another similarity between the wars in Viet Nam and Iraq is the fact that in both instances Congress envisioned themselves to be military generals... a comparison that I wish the President had made.

Otherwise I, too, thought it was one of his best speeches ever! Went to link provided here and saved as pdf.

re: #73 legalpad
The ROEs for Iraq make Nam look like dodge city on a friday night.

re: #75 leepro

Another similarity between the wars in Viet Nam and Iraq is the fact that in both instances Congress envisioned themselves to be military generals... a comparison that I wish the President had made.

Otherwise I, too, thought it was one of his best speeches ever! Went to link provided here and saved as pdf.

I thought it was one his best speeches too. I'm so glad I was able to see it.

re: #77 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, I'm bad at spelling as I don't basically think in words.

Thanks for pointing it out.

re: #80 Ojoe

re: #77 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, I'm bad at spelling as I don't basically think in words.

Thanks for pointing it out.

What do you think in?

re: #64 storagemanager

I've met lot of people today who were in those education camps, who are thriving in the Vietnam of today

WTF is his point? lots of Jews thrived after surviving the consentration camps.

what a load of crap.

I don't think I moved during the speech...It was that good.

re: #81 Ginn

Images and shapes usually (I'm an architect).

Gotta get some work done too, 'bye for now.

#74 storagemanager

We both joined in '78. Went through Boot and Jump School together. I went to Bragg and he went to Hunter Air Field @ Ft. Stewart.

I saw him do 200 pushups for a twinkie one day. He was always the first to volunteer for anything and the instructors loved him!

Our Company Commander one day asked him why he joined the Army. His simple answer was, "I want to kill as many communists as I can and I want to protect my country, America!"

He was proud of Texas and at 5, 7 looked a little lost in a 10 gallon hat when we were off post.

I'd like to see Sen. Kerry sit down and have a chat with Nguyen. I think it would be a pretty short discussion.

Try this ABC: Vietnam Like Iraq - Pantywaste Liberals Cower in the face of Totalitarianism, Enemy Comforted, American Soldiers Die as do Thousands of Civilians - Democrats expect wins in White House and Congress in '08.

re: #82 bulwrk

re: #64 storagemanager

I've met lot of people today who were in those education camps, who are thriving in the Vietnam of today

WTF is his point? lots of Jews thrived after surviving the consentration camps.

what a load of crap.

I thought his point was this. That those of us who "claim" there was mass killings .. are wrong and that the re-education camps... weren't that bad.

The man just dazzles me with his ability to deny and parse the truth.

This is good

...Condemning the Fox News Channel as a warmonger that is agitating for a US attack on Iran, documentary filmmaker Robert Greenwald and US Senator Bernie Sanders announced an "online viral video campaign" Wednesday calling on television news organizations "not to follow Fox down the road to war again."

Greenwald, the director behind "Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism" and "Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price," has compiled a new three-minute video that mashes clips from Fox's coverage of the 2003 invasion of Iraq and its aftermath with recent coverage of possible US military action against Iran

BUT...ABC is good...lol [Link: www.jpost.com...]

re: #64 storagemanager

I've met the daughter of someone who was in a re-education camp. The whole family lives here now and her father still wakes up screaming.

welcome, mpickut!

and people still watch/listen to ABC news?

re: #9 toddrundgren

Iraq is not a war. It's a media game.
Nothing the insurgency can do is significant militarily. It all directed at the Western press...it's the enemy's only chance.

Correction: It is a war turned into a media game. Your point is well taken by those of us that are grounded in the reality of the true depth of this new war. The left, when not in the White House, will always turn any conflict into a media game since the media is their ally. It is a very sad state of affairs when American politicians use our win/loss in a conflict for short-term political gains as the Demoncrats are now doing.

re: #91 GeeWiz

re: #9 toddrundgren

Iraq is not a war. It's a media game.
Nothing the insurgency can do is significant militarily. It all directed at the Western press...it's the enemy's only chance.

Correction: It is a war turned into a media game. Your point is well taken by those of us that are grounded in the reality of the true depth of this new war. The left, when not in the White House, will always turn any conflict into a media game since the media is their ally. It is a very sad state of affairs when American politicians use our win/loss in a conflict for short-term political gains as the Demoncrats are now doing.

It is a war to the boots on the ground...they are all I care about.

re: #87 Ginn

Thats an easy thing to say unless you were actually in one.

re: #93 bulwrk

re: #87 Ginn

Thats an easy thing to say unless you were actually in one.

Kerry has no clue, none what so ever.

Kerry is a dimwit who must constantly restate his point when proven to be factually wrong. He is losing the cover og the MSM and is a bit confused.

re: #95 Ginn

re: #93 bulwrk

re: #87 Ginn

Thats an easy thing to say unless you were actually in one.

Kerry has no clue, none what so ever.

To think he came this close to being president...

Here's how to reach ABC News to comment.

#96 pat

I remember people comparing Kerry to Lurch...

That was horribly unfair to Lurch!

re: #96 pat

I disagree. I thin you ought to label Kerry as an asshat. a dimwit is too good for him.

re: #96 pat

Kerry is a dimwit who must constantly restate his point when proven to be factually wrong. He is losing the cover og the MSM and is a bit confused.

Suppose he was confused when he told his Christmas in Cambodia story in Congress?

Pat.. have you seen Kerry's review of Apocalypse Now that was printed in the Boston Globe?

It's a terrific look into an insane man's mind.

Moderate Hyperbole Alert!

According to the left, America is not allowed to advance the cause of Freedom anywhere, even here whithin its borders.

Fine Mr. Lefty, keep pushing classical liberalism's watchmen into corners if you want to see that 'blowback' concept that you coined as part of your apologetic lexicon to support Freedom's enemies made whole and real, unleashed in all of its full fury against you and your wards.

And for the interim: any snipes against this country in my presence by a collectivist of any stipe after the next mainland US terror attack will be at the expense of the offenders larnyx. This is life and death and they don't play fair either, so enough is enough, no more BS intellectual jujitsu. They have subverted the language and the imformative institutions...there is no debating or political wrestling with the malevolent and amoral, only judiciously and precisely physically applied death strikes.

//shopping for more zipties, gunnysacks, and rope.

A Florida-based Customs and Border Protection aircraft recently intercepted a semi-submerged smuggling vessel filled with five metric tons of cocaine.

The Air and Marine crew tracked the self-propelled vessel carrying $352 million worth of cocaine and coordinated a plan with the U.S. Navy and U.S. Coast Guard to intercept the vessel. Four suspected smugglers were taken into custody.

What else could this carry? [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

re: #101 Ginn

Ginn, no. But I would be interested in seeing that.

re: #76 grumpy old codger

Exactly. In Vietnam, though, the limitations seemed largely strategic. Don't go in Laos/Cambodia (officially). Don't invade North Vietnam. In Iraq, they seem to be ignoring some of the actions of Iran and Syria.

Change their acronym to ABK(os).

I have found excerpts of the Review, but not the whole thing. Apparently the review has been greeted with derision. LOL

re: #106 legalpad
Also tactical. Did we bitch when we leveled hue? If the VC or the commies hid out in a temple, what would've happened. compare this to how we treat the mosques. sniping going on, no problem. We'll talk with the caretaker. Compare this to how they treated Monte cassino.

re: #92 storagemanager

I never meant to demean the situation our brave warriors find themselves in. For them it is a REAL WAR. I was addressing the mentality of the left in this country and their perception of "The War" and how they use it for political gain. For the left, it is a "media game", for our troops it is a real war that creates not only danger for their lives but the sacrifice of being so far away from their families. Sorry if my post left one in doubt about my intentions.

re: #104 pat

re: #101 Ginn

Ginn, no. But I would be interested in seeing that.

I'll look it up for you

We've been hearing this cr^p over in the UK. The only correlation between Iraq and Vietnam is that the enemy uses guerilla warfare tactics.

Despite the constant drum beating of the MSM that defeating a guerilla force is impossible, it was in the Malaya and in Borneo .

re: #105 buzzsawmonkey

re: #97 Ginn

That Kerry did not become President makes one believe in G-d.

And in the American people.

(smiles)

Here may be something for the Lizard library.
The Al Quaeda Reader

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

Pat

John Kerry's review of Apocalypse Now.

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

re: #9 toddrundgren

Iraq is not a war. It's a media game.
Nothing the insurgency can do is significant militarily. It all directed at the Western press...it's the enemy's only chance.

In a sense that might be true, but in reality it is all part of a war. Their war on us, and our war on Islamic Terrorists. It maybe the same war, but we are both fighting it with a different perception I believe. Whereas we would like peace and security for all, they have some twisted idea that the war itself is the end. Death during Jihad fulfills their highest aspirations, whereas for us we want peace, and to live.

Mothers there would gladly send their sons to die, I would like my friends back at a BBQ with me. Its live and let live vs. kill and die for your own glory.

Don't trivialize the conflict by calling it a game. They may be playing to our media but the end result for them is the same. They want us dead or enslaved.

#8 Karagush 8/22/2007 2:42:37 pm reply quote report

The only similarity I see in this situation to Vietnam is that if we leave, these people will suffer reprisal, Massacre, hideous death and then failed statehood. The survivors will live in poverty, under a reign of terror imposed by outside forces.

Dunno. Other than that, its not really the same.

I don't understand why our only choices have to be to either leave or continue with the same strategy. What about the option of keeping our military in Iraq but only in an offensive role except for the defense of our own bases. That way, those attempting to take over Iraq in a way that would cause all the reprisal, massaccre, hideous deaths and failed statehoods would continue to get killed and/or captured. We would have a lot fewer deaths on our side because it's a far cry from what we are trying to do there now. I've only heard one candidate so far express this option and that would be the one who ROCKS (aka...Tom Tancredo).

For example, on March 27, 1986, Kerry took to the floor of the Senate to protest President Reagan's funding of the anti-Communist contras in Nicaragua. Like many Kerry speeches, this one warned against American intervention abroad by resurrecting the specter of the U.S. defeat in Vietnam: "Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia," Kerry began. "I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia."

Kerry paused.

"I have that memory, which is seared--seared--in me," he went on, "that says to me, before we send another generation into harm's way, we have a responsibility in the United States Senate to go the last step, to make the best effort possible in order to avoid that kind of conflict."

The memory of his Christmas in Cambodia, indelibly seared into his mind, was such that Kerry often told others about it. Reporters, for example. In an AP dispatch published on June 25, 1992, reporter John Diamond wrote that, by Christmas 1968, "part of Kerry's patrol extended across the border of South Vietnam into Cambodia."

[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

Excerpt from the review by Kerry of Apocalypse Now:

"On more than one occasion, I like Martin Sheen in "Apocalypse Now," took my patrol boat into Cambodia. In fact I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost being killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real."

re: #119 pat

Those drunken Viet Namese Buddhists celebrating Christmas were pretty good shots if they scared poor Johnny 5 miles away. I say the magic hat saved him.

I think we may be flogging the dead horse that was J. Kerry while missing the best parts of the speech today. The third and fourth paragraphs I know the speech was linked higher in the thread, but our President pledged to fight this war as long as he is President, that is refreshing.

Another point, mentioned higher in the thread is that the BBC is reporting this as he spoke it, that leaving will create more of a mess...we all know the Beeb loves to bash America, and if they can pin the deaths following our departure from 'nam on us, they will, and this gives them that chance.

Heads must be exploding over there though, as they are reporting something honestly, without spin...

re: #122 Stonemason

I thought his whole speech was terrific. Here are the 3rd and 4th paragraphs..

I stand before you as a wartime President. I wish I didn't have to say that, but an enemy that attacked us on September the 11th, 2001, declared war on the United States of America. And war is what we're engaged in. The struggle has been called a clash of civilizations. In truth, it's a struggle for civilization. We fight for a free way of life against a new barbarism -- an ideology whose followers have killed thousands on American soil, and seek to kill again on even a greater scale.

We fight for the possibility that decent men and women across the broader Middle East can realize their destiny -- and raise up societies based on freedom and justice and personal dignity. And as long as I'm Commander-in-Chief we will fight to win. (Applause.) I'm confident that we will prevail. I'm confident we'll prevail because we have the greatest force for human liberation the world has ever known -- the men and women of the United States Armed Forces. (Applause.)

For those of you who wear the uniform, nothing makes me more proud to say that I am your Commander-in-Chief. Thank you for volunteering in the service of the United States of America.

(

#73 legalpad 8/22/2007 3:32:41 pm reply quote report

Iraq is like Vietnam in that we have overly restrictive rules of engagement, both tactical and strategic.

Iraq is like Vietnam in that our foreign policy makers allow themselves to be manipulated by all of the anti-war rhetoric. It's as if they think that the way to counter the accusations of being brutal war-mongers is to just make our military fight a kinder, gentler war. That way, when people see how we don't strike mosques and how many hoops have to be jumped through on our side in order to hit any and every target, the peacenics will tone down their rhetoric.

Peacenics however, will never agree with America ever going to war for any reason. All that happens, is people like me that once were big supporters of the President is pissed right off because we know that this war is no different than any other war ever has been in the sense of innocents paying a price. Innocent Germans and Japanese paid the price for the leaderships they supported and/or allowed to rise to power. Innocents in GB, France, and other European nations paid the price for the appeasement policies of their leaders. Every one of those killed on 9/11 paid the ultimate price for the appeasement and PC policies of our leaderships (both past and present). How many more Americans will have to get killed or seriously disabled trying to make life better for Iraqis and spare innocents? We should be on the offense against Iran already, but have bogged ourselves down in Iraq trying to do something that is pure fantasy. Imagine if our forces on D-day never made it out of Normandy because they were trying to make life better for all the suffering, innocent French people.

#69 @ Kerry:

those education camps

LOL! Can he buy a "re"? Just like my niece and science camp, apparently.

Kerry is such a pathological liar, always trying to 'shape' and mold the message. Putting the happy face on Communist concentration camps really typifies his entire career. But I'm still a bit surprised.

re: #83 storagemanager

A great speech.
I take back what I said when I saw him appear in his socks.

re: #125 BeagleThe one thng that strikes me as good about John Kerry is that it seems teresa heinz put all her money on a hard 8. And she lost! She picked a loser. Not to mention asshar, etc...

Fuck ABC, there at the bottom feeding on there own lies lice...

re: #124 AirForceWife

You are dead-on here. Ideally, they would get most of the press out, quit caving to the left's ridiculously weak arguments, and do some fish-or-cut-bait action there. I think the caving Republicans are the weak link here. That is the only thing protecting the Democrats, who are the only thing protecting the Muslim radicals.

re: #128 beddgelert

Fuck ABC, there at the bottom feeding on there own lies lice...

cant write today; input their and their for there and there...

That's ok, bottom feeders is good enough. Or Chofaki, it means dirt or filth eaters.

The trouble with taking it to the Iranians is the military doesn't have the public support - and thus, the manpower - to carry it out. Personally, I like this Iraqi interpreter's suggestion regarding the fine.

#60 Ginn 8/22/2007 3:14:58 pm reply quote report

I've always believed this. We live in this fast food McDonald's world where if the war isn't won in 15 days, 15 months then according to our "dissenters" we've lost.

This brings hope to our enemies. Bush mentioned how Al_queda wrote to one another that we would fold and crumble.. just like Vietnam.

Two weeks after we invaded Iraq, a mere two weeks, Ted Kennedy was out calling it a quagmire.

While I agree with you, I also think it is necessary to define what our goals are. What does it mean to win in Iraq? Does it mean that terrorist cells in Iraq have been crippled? Or does it mean that sunni and shia are no longer killing each other there? That Iraqis are no longer be recruited in large numbers by Al Qaeda?

Our military is constantly chasing down Al Qaeda leaders in Iraq and those leaders are constantly being replaced. Why? Because Islamic fundamentalism is at the root. We've tried, but we've never been able to build a country to make it all better. Japan was doing well when they attacked us on Dec 7th. If they had beat us, they wouldn't have went on to be a self-destructive culture. The Japanese people have always been successful. People like to say that we rebuilt Japan but the fact is that they couldn't have been if not for their own resourcefulness, ingenuity, and culture of productivity. Same with Germany.

We bombed Germany and destroyed a lot of infrastructure but no matter how much bombing we would have done, we could not have caused the Germans to be a self-destructive culture. As evil as the Nazis were, they were productive in a way that was not about killing each other. They were industrious and resourceful and were never third world. The people of Japan and Germany were a different animal than what we are dealing with in Islamic countries.

#63 Ginn

But on the other hand, I've met lot of people today who were in those education camps, who are thriving in the Vietnam of today

How many didn't make it out of the education camps? I remember as a child a few dramatic scenes of Vietmanese boat people, but I notice MSM has never aired those tapes again. Hmmm.

We fight for the possibility that decent men and women across the broader Middle East can realize their destiny -- and raise up societies based on freedom and justice and personal dignity

I'm having a hard believing that there are all these men and women across the broader middle east who want freedom, justice, and personal dignity in the same way we define those things. I assume that the ones who immigrate to the west are less radical than the ones whose daily lives are immersed in radical Islam. Even the ones who immigrate to the west refuse to unequivocally denounce terrorism. There is always the moral equivalence given. They for the most part buy right into the whole Jews control the world and are the source of all evil conspiracy theory. I'm going to need some more proof.

And the most despicable thing is that beyond the fact that they misrepresented what President Bush said to imply that Iraq is progressing like the Viet Nam the incident they used to do it is that the 14 Americans died in an accident.

I guess that makes them despicable liars.

But then I guess I already knew that.

#133 AirForceWife

While I agree with you, I also think it is necessary to define what our goals are. What does it mean to win in Iraq? Does it mean that terrorist cells in Iraq have been crippled? Or does it mean that sunni and shia are no longer killing each other there? That Iraqis are no longer be recruited in large numbers by Al Qaeda?

Our military is constantly chasing down Al Qaeda leaders in Iraq and those leaders are constantly being replaced

You're right about the need to define "success", but even the questions you ask are based on some false assumptions. In Iraq the Sunnis & Shia who are killing each other are the terrorists & militias. The average citizen is not involved. That's one factor which makes this not a civil war. I was talking with an Iraqi a few days ago, he used to live in Bagdad. He talked about how your neighbours would be Sunni or Shia and you wouldn't know or care. there were many cross marriages between Sunnis & Shia. It just wasn't a big deal. But after Saddam fell, the Shia militias started killing Sunnis in revenge for Saddam's crimes and al-Qaeda started killing Shia. Both wanted to whip up sectarian violence as a path to power. The point being if the US can destroy the terrorist cells and the militias (& not just cripple them), the average Iraqis will find peace.

Also, the killing of al-Qaeda & their replacement has not been at constant rates. There has been a huge increase lately in the numbers killed with relatively few replacements. Muslims abandon loosers. The Iraqi tribes are turning on al-Qaeda in huge numbers. Militarily, the US is winning in Iraq. The question remains whether Washington can still loose the war.

Kenneth (#137),

The question remains whether Washington can still loose the war.

Absolutely. Get a Democrat in as POTUS and they will implement the Orwell Stratagem: "The quickest way to end a war is to lose it."

re: #138 Geepers

I dread the possibility a Dem could win. This goes beyond partisan politics, it's a matter of life or death for millions.

KKOH radio in Reno is mostly conservative talk. But every thirty minutes the libs get their "equal time", as ABC News comes on to lie and rant about something.

If ABC's ratings have dwindled, I wish to take partial credit, as I have roundly cursed those bastards aloud at every opportunity.

[Link: newsforums.bbc.co.uk...]
BDS is alive and well on BBC's "Have Your Say".

I submitted that as a comment... it got rejected. :p
Really... it's just crazy reading that stuff. It seems with the creation of the internet, paranoid schizophrenia has become contagious.

As Allah points out, Bush didn't say Iraq was like Vietnam -- he said it would be like Vietnam were we to surrender.

Yep- leave it to the msm to take a Bush quote out of context and make hay.

#137 Kenneth 8/22/2007 6:00:05 pm reply quote report

I was talking with an Iraqi a few days ago, he used to live in Bagdad. He talked about how your neighbours would be Sunni or Shia and you wouldn't know or care. there were many cross marriages between Sunnis & Shia. It just wasn't a big deal. But after Saddam fell, the Shia militias started killing Sunnis in revenge for Saddam's crimes and al-Qaeda started killing Shia. Both wanted to whip up sectarian violence as a path to power. The point being if the US can destroy the terrorist cells and the militias (& not just cripple them), the average Iraqis will find peace.

The part about both groups wanting to whip up sectarian violence as a path to power is an important point. I can buy that the biggest problem is not shia and sunnis killing each other but rather a power grab. This is what we see over and over again in third world cultures. The most brutal rises to the top and they get these tyrants for leaders. My underlying argument is that we cannot change this with our military force. Cultures change from within. In the case of Muslims, we are talking about deeply held beliefs that keep them self-destructive, non-productive, non-industrious, and non-resourceful cultures. How does U.S. military force change all of that?

I trot out this link whenever the opportunity arises. [Link: www.hnn.us...] It lays out the timeline of that time very well. By '73 we were down to advisory level and Embassy staff. The democrats said they were going to cut funding. It took them two years to accomplish this so all the communists had to do was reconstitute in Laos and Cambodia and wait until the democrats succeeded. Then in '75 they launched their chinese communist financed blitzkreig. The democrats would not spring for a few bucks for beans and bullets and would not allow our Air Force to give them some air cover against the blitzkreig. The South ran out of ammunition. The democrats would lead people today that the United States or the Military lost the war. Not so, the democrats handed the South over to the communists. I guess the democrats of today think that all of us that were alive then are all dead.