Surprise, Surprise... Damn him.

It depends on what your definition of "ordered" is.

Clinton: What is the definition lie?

I never thought he had given such an order. And I cannot see the CIA being able to carry it out; or has everyone else forgotten the Church Commission and how it gutten covert operations?

On the other hand, I am never surprised to discover that Clinton has been lying.

President Clinton? Lie? Land-o-goshen!

/sarc

Had a friend who knew one of the Secret Service guys on the Clintoon detail.Said that the guy could not tell the troof about anything, just a totally pathological liar from the get-go.

We are surprised by this?

Somewhere, sometime in the next year, there's going to be a chance to ask Hillary about this. It should be our goal to make sure we're there with a camcorder, even if it means contributing to her campaign.

No surprises. I think a bigger mystery is way Sandy Berger let his law license be pulled rather than fess up to what the documents he shredded said. My theory is that the Clintonites knew that 9/11 was going to happen, knew about it in some detail, and decided to punish the Bushies for winning the 2000 election by withholding the information.

I'm still stunned that "Bill Clinton lied" is news. "Bill Clinton told truth" that would be news.

Good point #7, the Beast knows all about her hubbie's proclivities. I think they call them enablers.

re: #8 joncelli

Or even WHY Sandy Berger did it. PIMF, dammit.

He never ordered the CIA to kill Osama bin Laden...

neither will Hillary

Clinton Lied.
Religion of Peace.
Kill the Jews.
CNN-Your most Trusted NewsSource.

Same headlines. Different day.

(yawn)

After ordering Israel only to missile empty buildings as a "proportionate response" to suicide bombings that killed dozens, WHAT DID YOU EXPECT HIM TO DO?

That's why after the Cole, he bombed an empty building in Sudan.

He painted himself into a corner with his weak foreign policy, and couldn't risk the "double standard" criticism that 10000% would've been tossed at him had he reacted any different than he was telling Israel to react.

He couldn't continue telling Israel not to do targeted assassinations of terrorists and then go do one himself.

re: #12 insanity police

re: #12 insanity police

He never ordered the CIA to kill Osama bin Laden...

neither will Hillary

No, BUT

I do believe Hillary will order the CIA to kill Bill.

re: #8 joncelli
I don't care for your brand of trutherism. Clinton was bad, but I'd need a mountain of evidence to believe he permitted 9/11.

'It depends on what you mean by 'kill''

Watch the MSM bury this one.

re: #17 NoSubmission

'It depends on what you mean by 'kill''

To assume room temperature.

As opposed to: listening to her speak, which might tempt him to take matters into his own hands.

My eternal sentiment of Mr. Clinton.

All he did was get a hummer in the Oral Office! He's the greatest President since FDR!

//L³ mode off

It will be real news when Bill Clinton tells the truth.

I can't wait to see what Shrillery has to say about this as part of her governing experience in the 2 for 1 co-presidency of the 90's.

I'm not even mildy suprised by this.

re: #15 mondoreb

re: #12 insanity police

He never ordered the CIA to kill Osama bin Laden...

neither will Hillary

I do believe Hillary will order the CIA to kill Bill.

Then she will be free to find a first lady.

re: #20 bosforus

What a triangulating maroon.

re: #16 zmdavid

Fair enough. It's a theory, not a conclusion. I guess I'm just frustrated that we haven't heard much, much more about this and wonder what would cause Berger to accept such sacrifices rather than tell the whole story.

It won't matter. The media and left still think Bill was a saint and he could do no wrong -- no matter what he did or said. I guess the opposite of BDS is Clinton Hero Worship.

Thanks Bill

did sandy burgler shred the documents or did he stick them up his butt and forget about them. after all who would want to go in there to get them. the slick one didn't LIE, it's one of those mystery conspiracy things that won't quit pestering him. that sorry administration lacked everything but corruption.

re: #20 bosforus

Man, I am glad you found that. A better example of a phony in action was never filmed. And boy, Ron Brown fell out of the news quickly.

Bill Clinton lied

Well where are the WMD then?

/ my moonbat sister

re: #24 insanity police

Then she will be free to find a first lady.

In this scenario, it's win/win.

Except for the future, unfortunate First Lesbo.

#8 joncelli

Now there's some food for thought - creeps me out that there's no small amount of logic to your premise. Remember Hillary speaking to the Senate, not long post 9-11: "What did Bush know, and how long did he know it?"

re: #17 NoSubmission

'It depends on what you mean by 'kill''

I think that actually close to the truth than you'd believe.

He authorized lethal force to be used in the capture of Bin Ladin. So the CIA could go in to CAPTURE him, and if he or anyone else happened to be killed in the attempt they were covered. But they couldn't just have a sniper shoot him, or drop a JDAM on him, or anything that could ONLY kill him.

It was Clinton's idea to have a bunch of black-clad Ninjas with swords drop out of helicopters in the middle of the night and run through one of the training camps and generally make mayhem, then disappear.

No, I'm not kidding.

Liar (li-ar) /n/: 1. Person who tells untruths. 2. William Jefferson Clinton.

re: #28 bulwrk

My friends brother was on that ship, any my dad was staying in the World Trade Center two days before the 9/11 attacks (luckily he left on 9/9). I take this terrorism stuf pretty seriously.

If Bill could have taken Bin Laden out, but didn't, he should go down in history as the worst President ever!

re: #33 mondoreb

re: #24 insanity police

Then she will be free to find a first lady.

In this scenario, it's win/win.

Except for the future, unfortunate First Lesbo.

Would that mean Rosie would have a shot at First Lady?

I never could understand Bill Clinton. I know femminists who think he was the greatest president, ever. Yeah, he mistreated women, his wife, lied about it, etc., they say, but so what? He was a great femminist president. And I'm still stunned by this.

re: #30 goodbye_natalie

i remember watching that when i was in my early teens and just thinking, how can people like this guy?

It's been obvious for years that Clinton inhabits his own universe of "truth."

re: #8 joncelli

No surprises. I think a bigger mystery is way Sandy Berger let his law license be pulled rather than fess up to what the documents he shredded said. My theory is that the Clintonites knew that 9/11 was going to happen, knew about it in some detail, and decided to punish the Bushies for winning the 2000 election by withholding the information.

IIRC, the plea deal allows Sandy Burglar to request re-installment to the bar in 2009, or just in time to serve in the Clinton II administration.

The real question is why a supposedly Republican run DoJ let Burglar off so easily.

It seems that Chris Wallace was correct to press President Clinton on that point, despite the Left's derision of Wallace at that time. This should also force a reexamination of what the NSA and Sandy Berger were doing during this time frame as well. As the CIA report summary indicates from yesterday, the CIA's Clinton years are not one that the agency would like to claim as being marked with successes.

Far from being aggressive in pursuing al Qaeda, the President's orders were timid and hamstrung the agency. This also puts Scheuer and Clarke in a most curious position. Sister Toldjah has more.

And yet Tenet got a Medal of Freedom from President Bush. I can think of no worse recipient of that award than Tenet who oversaw the snafu that was pre 9/11 intel.

Bill Clinton lied

Well at least he didn't lie us into a war in order to steal oil to line his own pockets while torturing innocent peolple ALL FOR GREED!

/ my moonbat sister continues

What? "Honest" Bill Clinton lying? I'm shocked, shocked I tellsya!

I guess Sandy Burglar didn't get the complete set of incriminating documents in his underwear as directed. Maybe he shouldn't have had such a big lunch, there would have been more room for more paper in those shorts.

Mr. Hillary Clinton is in deep poo now!

I predict precisely nothing will happen.
Nothing sticks to the Teflon Scum. I have resigned myself to the fact that these idiots will never be held liable for their pathetic handling of the terror threat.

Bill and Shrill have the staffs of the world's news organizations working feverishly to steam clean the slightest flaw from their legacies.

Aside from us here in the choir, nobody is listening to the preacher about the Clintoons.

Bill Clinton is and always has been a schoolyard sissy. He is the type to throw a beer mug across the room, yell "BAR FIGHT!", and then crawl under the nearest table with a waitress.

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Me neither! Clinton lied? Pick a topic, any topic...

People, be reasonable, ol' Slick Willy didn't understand the definition of "kill". He thought "kill" meant "to behave in a cowardly manner in order to promote the appearance of a decisive leader"

Well, from what I hear, BJ's are rather distracting when being recieved, so maybe he just didn't hear the CIA report as the sides of his head were caving in.

Look, after all these years, it gets confusing for the poor guy... "order CIA to kill bin Laden", "order CIA to capture bin Laden", "order state troopers to capture bimbos for me", it all kind of gets mushed together.

re: #39 Golem Akbar

I never could understand Bill Clinton. I know femminists who think he was the greatest president, ever. Yeah, he mistreated women, his wife, lied about it, etc., they say, but so what? He was a great femminist president. And I'm still stunned by this.

Golem, it's Leftism. Leftism is a strange disease in which one removes all logic from one's head and substutes for it, ideology. In Leftism, one the ideology matters, not what the person has explicitly done.

It depends on what the meaning of the word "truth" is.

re: #15 mondoreb

Uma Thurman just called.

Sadly, no one is really surprised. All his protestations can't hide the fact that Clinton basically played kick-the-can on the road to 9/11.

re: #38 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #33 mondoreb

re: #24 insanity police

Then she will be free to find a first lady.

In this scenario, it's win/win.
Except for the future, unfortunate First Lesbo.

Would that mean Rosie would have a shot at First Lady?

I think Ellen has a better shot. But Rosie would be on the list. Rosie (fire can't melt steel) could be a great engineering adviser for Hil.

He sincerely thought he meant to get around to ordering that when he talked to Wallace. He DID write the order, now that he thinks of it, but maybe he forgot to press print, or he left it in his other pants. Darn it, you know how these things happen.
/

re: #8 joncelli

And you're still keeping an eye out for the black helicopters, right?

re: #39 Golem Akbar

I never could understand Bill Clinton. I know femminists who think he was the greatest president, ever. Yeah, he mistreated women, his wife, lied about it, etc., they say, but so what? He was a great femminist president. And I'm still stunned by this.

He was a great feminist president. Feminists believe men are scum. Bill Clinton was a great example of that.

AND the asshole removed all the "W"s from every White House keyboard!

It appears Clinton did lie about ordering Ossama be killed but...

Clinton appeared to have been referring to a December 1999 Memorandum of Notification (MON) he signed that authorized the CIA to use lethal force to capture, not kill, bin Laden. But the inspector general’s report made it clear that the agency never viewed the order as a license to “kill” bin Laden—one reason it never mounted more effective operations against him. “The restrictions in the authorities given the CIA with respect to bin Laden, while arguably, although ambiguously, relaxed for a period of time in late 1998 and early 1999, limited the range of permissible operations,” the report stated.

It would have been nice is Bin Laden had been killed before 911 the political will and legal framework wasn't in place yet. Thankfully that has changed.

The Clintons are amazing. The more bad stuffthat came out about him, the more popular he became.
I never underestimate those two.

re: #39 Golem Akbar

Me too, and I'm a woman. People swoon over his supposed charm, and all I see is a smarter-than-average hillbilly used car salesman.

Kaddafi extortion update:

Rice to Visit Libya, First Secretary to Go Since 1953

Condoleezza Rice will make the first visit to Libya by a U.S. secretary of state in half a century, in a sign of improving relations with the North African nation once branded a state sponsor of terrorism, envoy Ahmed Gebreel of the Libyan mission to the United Nations said today.

Rice, who is seeking ways to strengthen ties with the holder of Africa's largest oil reserves, will travel to Libya in the second half of October, Gebreel said in a telephone interview. John Foster Dulles, who served President Dwight Eisenhower, was the last secretary of state to visit Libya, in 1953... The trip comes after Libya took two major steps: giving up its chemical- and nuclear-weapons development programs, and agreeing to pay compensation to families of the 270 people who died in the Libyan-linked 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland.

Except that Kaddafi hasn't surrender his WMD stockpiles and has welched on his compensation payments.

But let's not let another pack of lies obstruct the rehabilitation of this terrorist mass murderer of American innocents.

re: #40 bosforus

i remember watching that when i was in my early teens and just thinking, how can people like this guy?

I remember watching in at my 30s and thinking how can people be so blind?

Clinton was too busy attending fundraisers and hiding his cigars to order the assasination of the perpetrator of the USS Cole attack.

That headline ought to make Taranto's "Bottom Stories Of the Day"...

re: #14 Ben Hur

Clinton would have cared about any of that, why? The man's a screaming hypocrite!

The truth is, he didn't have the nerve. That's all. No intestinal fortitude.

I will say I doubt that Clinton could have kept the entire CIA/national intelligence organizations quiet about the impedning 9-11 attacks, even if many were Clinton loyalists. Conspiracy theories depend on people staying quiet, and I don't think all the people with supposed knowledge of 9-11 would have permitted potentially tens of thousands to die.

Same with the TWA flight that crashed. I know someone among the crew of a Navy cruiser supposedly doing missile exercises would have said something if the 747 had been shot down accidentally by the Navy doing missile exercises in sight of land, and I don't think the entire FBI would have been quiet if a terrorist with a missile on a boat had shot down the plane.

Somehow I get the feeling that his reaction will be to use our own rhetoric against us.

He or his supporters will claim that the right-wing (Bush) forces in the CIA are trying to pin it on him, or bring down Hillary, when in reality we've been saying all along that the left (Clinton) forces (Plame and her retarded lying husband, Clark) in the CIA have been trying to bring down Bush.

re: #38 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Would that mean Rosie would have a shot at First Lady?

Rosie would actually have TWO shots:

Slim and none.

Clinton is a loser, but the CIA is too. They are wimpy bureaucrats who depend on lawyers to decide when they can pull the trigger on someone like Bed Linen.

Ibn Laden.

I've been lyin'.

Clinton's legacy will be that of a fabricator. He could have simply told the truth and given his reasons. That would be more understandable that his constant attempts to alter and fabricate the record.

re: #60 Ben Hur

AND the asshole removed all the "W"s from every White House keyboard!

I still can't get over how inmature these people were/are.

re: #54 cosmo

Uma Thurman just called.

OK, my attention is piqued.

Still weaseling after all these years... So much for the "legacy".

re: #73 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Clinton is a loser, but the CIA is too. They are wimpy bureaucrats who depend on lawyers to decide when they can pull the trigger on someone like Bed Linen.

I personally respect the CIA. Every agency has a certain amount of problems. But far be it from me to condemn an agency that works round the clock for our national interests, and whose employees give all they have in defense of our way of life.

Clinton, however, is a loser and a liar.

Hillary is going to be really upset about this. Stand by for heavy rolls. This IG might want to think about some sort of security protection for a while. For his/her sake, I hope there is no history of mental illness or depression.

re: #65 Terp Mole

Wonder if she will get a tour of the torture/rape rooms?

Clinton Lied, Bin Laden Didn't Die
Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 9:18:22 am PST

The latest CIA inspector general report shows that Bill Clinton lied ...

And this is a surprise because...?

There's a reason Sandy Burglar was sent in to steal documents.

Clinton's sorry ass needs to be hauled in front of the Congress. Not that it ever will be.

Meanwhile, why do we continue to focus on bin Laden? According to this guy, the Jews masterminded 9/11.

Wacky Paki: 9/11 a Brainchild of the Jews

Bet you didn't know Pakistan played a key role in the downfall of the Soviet Union.

Learn some fascinating new stuff every day.

re: #20 bosforus

My eternal sentiment of Mr. Clinton.

Billy had every reason to be happy at Mr. Browns demise. He was off the hook for a while on the Chinese campaign contributions and no one suspected him of killing Brown.

re: #64 doppelganglander

all I see is a smarter-than-average hillbilly used car salesman.

Yes! That describes Bill to a T. Another Democrat who seems to get a pass by the left, and especially lefty Jews, is Jimmy Carter. Go figure that one...

What is it with the Democrats? They elect con artists and go on defending them, long after the damage they do is so obvious to the rest of us.

re: #84 reine.de.tout

Clinton Lied, Bin Laden Didn't Die
Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 9:18:22 am PST
The latest CIA inspector general report shows that Bill Clinton lied ...

And this is a surprise because...?

Not a surprise. But this is a big lie. He needs to be called out on it...and held accountable. Take away his law license against, at the very least.

Bill Clinton Lied? WTF? It's not like he has a track reco...oh, wait.

Never mind...

re: #16 zmdavid

re: #8 joncelli
I don't care for your brand of trutherism. Clinton was bad, but I'd need a mountain of evidence to believe he permitted 9/11.

Yes, the let it happen is bull no matter what President you are talking about. Statements like that without any proof are no better than the BDS statements we denounce on here everyday.

Clinton's biggest gaffe wasn't that he didn't kill Bin Laden IMHO. His biggest gaffe was not ever acting forcibly after the WTC was bombed the first time or ripping to Somalia to shreds for draggin soldiers thru the streets. Our inaction led to several other acts of terrorism that quickly followed.

And let us not forget selling military secrets to Red China thru has buddy at Loral for some cash donations to the old Presidential library.

Clinton may not be the buffoon and anti-Semite Jimmah is. But he's more dangerous.

re: #85 JammieWearingFool

Best title ever!

Watch the Kos Kidz and the DUmmies spin this.

re: #87 Golem Akbar

What is it with the Democrats? They elect con artists and go on defending them, long after the damage they do is so obvious to the rest of us.

Take heart.
I always keep in mind that the names "Jimmy Carter" and "Bill Clinton" spark more jokes and late night comic routines than serious discussion.

Clinton lied; 3,000 died.

Smallest list of all time: List of Clinton statements that were not lies.

re: #93 Ward Cleaver

Watch the Kos Kidz and the DUmmies spin this.

re: #85 JammieWearingFool

There's a reason Sandy Burglar was sent in to steal documents.

Clinton's sorry ass needs to be hauled in front of the Congress. Not that it ever will be.

Meanwhile, why do we continue to focus on bin Laden? According to this guy, the Jews masterminded 9/11.

Wacky Paki: 9/11 a Brainchild of the Jews

Bet you didn't know Pakistan played a key role in the downfall of the Soviet Union.

Learn some fascinating new stuff every day.

And Christopher Columbus was a Pakistani!

If someone had suggested Bin Laden might cause trouble with Bill's re-election, the Arkansas mafia would of orchestrated a Bin Laden 'suicide' or a middle east version of a Starbucks hold-up and that would of been that. The fact that the man was a menace to the country was of no interest at all to Billy.

Willie Clitman wouldn't lie to you...

Clinton had a pathological need to lie. Like when he admitted smoking marijuana, but then had to add "but I didn't inhale".

If people didn't care that he lied to the Army about his intentions to enter the service to avoid the draft before heading off to Oxford, his leading of anti-war demonstrations on foreign soil, or his trip to Moscow, they weren't going to fault him for smoking a doob in the 60s.

I still believe that Clinton isn't particularly ideological, and did whatever was popular, ie, a lack of 'core beliefs'. He enjoyed the perqs of power, but while liberal, didn't have a strong agenda. So when the Republicans captured the House after the Hillary-care fiasco, he generally ruled as a moderate.

His wife, however, I believe, is driven by a core of Marxist-Leninist theory, and while Clinton damaged the country mainly through inaction, Pantsuit Stalin will be more active in moving this country to her concept of a socialized utopia. And if she has a Democrat Congress, full of people with KoS and DU ideology, she will damage this country in ways it probably will never recover from.

Does Hillary claim her First Lady experience as an executive one? She does not have any other experience.
And that "two for the price of one" deal? So does she share the responsibility? At least as a candidate for POTUS. As a co-President she failed.

re: #80 insanity police

re: #73 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Clinton is a loser, but the CIA is too. They are wimpy bureaucrats who depend on lawyers to decide when they can pull the trigger on someone like Bed Linen.

I personally respect the CIA. Every agency has a certain amount of problems. But far be it from me to condemn an agency that works round the clock for our national interests, and whose employees give all they have in defense of our way of life.

Clinton, however, is a loser and a liar.

I have a certain amount of sympathy for the agents in the field. Their job is hard enough without having to deal with the entrenched bureaucracy and legal teams in D.C. They need more freedom to eliminate those who pose a threat to our country, but their hands are tied.

re: #96 Da Coyote

Smallest list of all time: List of Clinton statements that were not lies.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

The primary false conspiracy theory spread world wide is: Islam is a religion of peace. The delusion that Islam is peaceful has spread into every corner of the planet. The facts are contradictory to the Infidel belief system so the facts must altered to protect their fragile "there are no bad people, only those that are misunderstood" view of the world.

/facts off

re: #83 pat re: #65 Terp Mole Wonder if she will get a tour of the torture/rape rooms?

Condi will be too busy avoiding Kaddafi's customary tent grope.

OT
CNN's Muslim lovefest got 2.2 million viewers. I think that is a good thing. Most liberals no doubt. Many will be appalled at what these bizarre cultists believe.
[Link: www.drudgereport.com...]

re: #100 sheik yer'mami

Willie Clitman wouldn't lie to you...

Never heard that before. People walking by my office wondered why I was laughing so hard.

re: #99 GreenDroll

If someone had suggested Bin Laden might cause trouble with Bill's re-election, the Arkansas mafia would of orchestrated a Bin Laden 'suicide' or a middle east version of a Starbucks hold-up and that would of been that. The fact that the man was a menace to the country was of no interest at all to Billy.

Agreed!

If there was a possibility that Bin Laden was going to 60 Minutes with a story that Bill had groped him, he would had the entire attention of all the national security assets.

re: #46 peck

re: #46 peck

I guess Sandy Burglar didn't get the complete set of incriminating documents in his underwear as directed. Maybe he shouldn't have had such a big lunch, there would have been more room for more paper in those shorts.

Or he could have taken Mikey Moore or Rosie with him he would have had plenty of room.

re: #104 Kreuzueber Halbmond

re: #80 insanity police

re: #73 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Clinton is a loser, but the CIA is too. They are wimpy bureaucrats who depend on lawyers to decide when they can pull the trigger on someone like Bed Linen.

I personally respect the CIA. Every agency has a certain amount of problems. But far be it from me to condemn an agency that works round the clock for our national interests, and whose employees give all they have in defense of our way of life.

Clinton, however, is a loser and a liar.

I have a certain amount of sympathy for the agents in the field. Their job is hard enough without having to deal with the entrenched bureaucracy and legal teams in D.C. They need more freedom to eliminate those who pose a threat to our country, but their hands are tied.

I agree. Cut the red tape, and then let the CIA cut Bin Laden's head off.

re: #95 Ward Cleaver

Clinton lied; 3,000 died.

That should be put on a bumper sticker and sold.

re: #85 JammieWearingFool

I am sure you remember the Muslims on CNN claiming they brout down the USSR last nite. I think it must be a Muslim Mosque Meme.

#8 joncelli 8/23/2007 9:21:43 am

No surprises. I think a bigger mystery is way Sandy Berger let his law license be pulled rather than fess up to what the documents he shredded said.

It boggles my mind that Sandy Berger isn't in prison.

Hey Y'all - just got back from taking mom to doctor (she's fine) and haven't read the thread.
Wonder if this will show up in the MSM? It really should with so many Dem Presdiential candiates and Repub's running, this would seem to be a very juicy tid-bit for them!
Anyone got odds on this being a BIG deal in the debates/media?

Here's how the KKKos and PuffHO kids will spin this:

(1) They'll bring up the Gulf War.
(2) They'll bring up the Iraq War and McChimpyBush.
(3) They'll bring up Beirut '83
(4) They'll bring up our support of the Shah
(5) They'll bring up Dick Cheney
(6) They'll bring up Halliburton
(7) They'll bring up the Republican Congress chasing Clinton and Monica
(8) They'll bring up Ken Starr
(9) They'll bring up Neocon and Wingnuts
(10) And if they slip, they'll bring up Israel

They are nothing, if predictable.

re: #101 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Clinton had a pathological need to lie. Like when he admitted smoking marijuana, but then had to add "but I didn't inhale".

If people didn't care that he lied to the Army about his intentions to enter the service to avoid the draft before heading off to Oxford, his leading of anti-war demonstrations on foreign soil, or his trip to Moscow, they weren't going to fault him for smoking a doob in the 60s.

I still believe that Clinton isn't particularly ideological, and did whatever was popular, ie, a lack of 'core beliefs'. He enjoyed the perqs of power, but while liberal, didn't have a strong agenda. So when the Republicans captured the House after the Hillary-care fiasco, he generally ruled as a moderate.

His wife, however, I believe, is driven by a core of Marxist-Leninist theory, and while Clinton damaged the country mainly through inaction, Pantsuit Stalin will be more active in moving this country to her concept of a socialized utopia. And if she has a Democrat Congress, full of people with KoS and DU ideology, she will damage this country in ways it probably will never recover from.

Bravo! Bill Clinton is a classic sociopath, IMO. I'd rather have him in office if I had to choose between him and her.

#14 ber hur

That's why after the Cole, he bombed an empty building in Sudan.

is this the famous "aspirin factory", that probably had nothing to do with al queda? some poor security guard was killed.

at the rate secrets are trickling out, in thirty years i expect to find that bill had an affair with osama.

#57 Silhouette "He sincerely thought he meant to get around to ordering that when he talked to Wallace. He DID write the order, now that he thinks of it, but maybe he forgot to press print, or he left it in his other pants."

(Or he left it in Sandy Berglar's pants...)

re: #27 Golem Akbar

It won't matter. The media and left still think Bill was a saint and he could do no wrong -- no matter what he did or said. I guess the opposite of BDS is Clinton Hero Worship.

Pretty much. Pope Clintoon the 1st is the Anointed Hero of The People, cleanser of Republican taint for all time, up there in the Democratic Pantheon with JFK and FDR. At this point it will indeed take an act of God for him to be held accountible.

I am by no means Christian but I think this song (one of my favorites, adapted by Moby, of all people) might have been written for Big Willie.

Lord God Almighty let me tell the news
My head got wet in midnight dew
Great God I been down on my bended knees
Talking to a man from galilee
Michael spoke and he sound so sweet
I thought I heard the shuffle of angels' feet
He put one hand upon my head
Great God Almighty let me tell you what He said

Go tell that lonesome liar
Go tell that midnight rider
Tell the gamblin', ramblin' backslider
Tell them God Almighty gonna cut 'im down

You might run on for a long time
Run on, ducking and dodging
Run on, children, for a long time
Let me tell you God Almighty gonna cut you down

You might throw your rock, hide your head
Work in the dark with your fellow men
Sure as God made you rich and poor
You're gonna reap just what you sow

Some people go to church just to sit in the fire
Trying to make a date with a neighbor's wife
Brother let me tell you just as sure as you're born
You better leave that woman alone

You might run on for a long time
Run on, ducking and dodging
Run on, children, for a long time
Let me tell you God Almighty gonna cut you down

Raise your hands all of you who firmly believe any of the networks will report this story.

OK, I see no hands up.

Lying is a sacrament to the left.

re: #97 mondoreb

re: #93 Ward Cleaver

Watch the Kos Kidz and the DUmmies spin this.

[Link: youtube.com...]

The left, MSM, and dems in general will ignore or spin the hell out of this. Anything that hurts Hillary's chances (imo) will not make headlines.

Gotta run. Have a good day lizards.

re: #120 GGMac

#57 Silhouette "He sincerely thought he meant to get around to ordering that when he talked to Wallace. He DID write the order, now that he thinks of it, but maybe he forgot to press print, or he left it in his other pants."

(Or he left it in Sandy Berglar's pants...)

Or it accidentaly got thrown out with those pizza boxes Monica littered the Oval office with.

re: #105 Silhouette

re: #96 Da Coyote

Smallest list of all time: List of Clinton statements that were not lies.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

I know, whenever someone used the argument "Clinton said Saddam had WMD" to justify the Iraq War, I cringed because Clinton always lies. Clinton saying he had them was an indication he didn't. I still thought Saddam had them, I just wasn't persuaded by Clinton.

re: #72 mondoreb Sorry, Rosie and slim just doesn't compute. Error 404.

When didn't/doesn't Bill lie? Why did Sandy Berger get a pass? Why is it OK by the MSM for the Clintons to have permanent amnesia about key events?

I don't get the frenzy over either Clinton. They are both snake-oil salesmen - in fact, they should both win Academy Awards for their unique acting abilities.

O/T re: Sandy Burglar, but why wouldn't the National Archives put everything brought there on microfilm, or scan it into computers, so in case of a fire, explosion, etc., there'd at least be a record of what is there, and then we'd know exactly Burglar stole from the American people trying to protect Clinton from looking the incompetent boob he was while "attempting" to fight terrorism for 8 years.

re: #78 mondoreb

Just get Dot Com to sit on you when you're overstimulated.

re: #115 Aloysius

#8 joncelli 8/23/2007 9:21:43 am

No surprises. I think a bigger mystery is way Sandy Berger let his law license be pulled rather than fess up to what the documents he shredded said.

It boggles my mind that Sandy Berger isn't in prison.

Sandy Berger stuffed, Scooter Libby was cuffed. Where's the justice in that?

re: #125 Golem Akbar

The left, MSM, and dems in general will ignore or spin the hell out of this. Anything that hurts Hillary's chances (imo) will not make headlines.

And that's the main reason a highly-publicized CNN Special Super Duper Report pulls 2.2 million viewers and a normal night of Fox News pulls 3-4 times as many.

re: #14 Ben Hur

clinton did nothing after the Cole bombing.

re: #111 kcladderman

Then shredding or hiding the docs might have been irrelevant. A less risky approach would have Mikey and Rosie 'snacking' while helping their good friend Sandy review unclassified portions of the material. They need the calories and 9/11 commission witnesses needed lots of research assistance./

Knew a very successful guy in New York City area who watch the planes hit the twin towers. I was in London. I called him from my office to ask what the hell had happened. Without a pause the first words out of his mouth were "that damn Clinton". This guy was part of Reagan admin and close to Rudi. He knew exactly what had happened, why, by whom and were the fault lied (no pun inteneded). That was 9/12/2001. In a short 6 years nothing has changed. Just the fables spun by the left.

It was all a Karl Rove conspiracy. Hill & Billy never lie.

re: #87 Golem Akbar

What is it with the Democrats? They elect con artists and go on defending them, long after the damage they do is so obvious to the rest of us.

A con artist requires a mark. Nobody likes to admit they've been conned. That's how con artists keep operating, until finally someone blows the whistle. Then and only then do you see multiple victims come forward.

re: #122 JammieWearingFool

Jammi, you really think Brit Hume will let this slide? No chance.

re: #127 insanity police

My favorite James Brown song.
And video.

re: #122 JammieWearingFool

Does Brit Hume count? I would bet he covers it. Maybe not today, but soon.

re: #142 mondoreb

Speaking of James Brown:

re: #102 buzzsawmonkey

How can Clinton-Antaeus be separated from his--or her--source of strength?

Clever and I think right on. My suggestion is that Hillary does not have the charisma that Bill has, or had. She will use Bill (mother earth/briar patch analogy), but without him, she's exposed. If she's nominated (I think a done/deal), maybe we need to keep the focus on her and her alone.

Extreme Sports For Deer: Motorcycle Jumping.

re: #132 Bob in Breckenridge

The National Archives is still a paper-based organization, as is most of the federal government. It will be years and years before all documents are digitized. By the time the feds decided to purchase any system, it's already obsolete.

re: #122 JammieWearingFool

If only somebody can get Drudge to link to the article, then there would be an all out Jimmy Carville et al damage control fest.

/("Another vast Right Wing Conspiracy", oh my!)

Clinton’s tepid response to the first attack on the WTC in 1993 — which was clearly sponsored by Saddam Hussein —

Fact check please!

re: #90 kcladderman

re: #16 zmdavid

re: #8 joncelli
I don't care for your brand of trutherism. Clinton was bad, but I'd need a mountain of evidence to believe he permitted 9/11.

Yes, the let it happen is bull no matter what President you are talking about. Statements like that without any proof are no better than the BDS statements we denounce on here everyday.

I don't believe that any American President would allow something as horrible as 9-11, no matter how bad they are.

On a lighter note - if Hillary gets elected, that would make Bill the First Gentleman! They'd have to find another title for him, methinks.

re: #101 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Clinton had a pathological need to lie. Like when he admitted smoking marijuana, but then had to add "but I didn't inhale".

If people didn't care that he lied to the Army about his intentions to enter the service to avoid the draft before heading off to Oxford, his leading of anti-war demonstrations on foreign soil, or his trip to Moscow, they weren't going to fault him for smoking a doob in the 60s.

I still believe that Clinton isn't particularly ideological, and did whatever was popular, ie, a lack of 'core beliefs'. He enjoyed the perqs of power, but while liberal, didn't have a strong agenda. So when the Republicans captured the House after the Hillary-care fiasco, he generally ruled as a moderate.

His wife, however, I believe, is driven by a core of Marxist-Leninist theory, and while Clinton damaged the country mainly through inaction, Pantsuit Stalin will be more active in moving this country to her concept of a socialized utopia. And if she has a Democrat Congress, full of people with KoS and DU ideology, she will damage this country in ways it probably will never recover from.

All true. Hillary, in my opinion, is truly scary. I will say, however, that the little people (that's us, folks) seem to me to have a bigger voice than we used to, thanks to blogs like this one that keep us informed and bring like-minded people together. If Hillary is elected, then hopefully all will not be lost.

re: #113 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Yes, but if you put 3,000, you'd get called a liar by the self-righteous left, who would then cite Wikipedia or CNN (equals) with the toll number of 2,973. You would then be disbarred from any public-forum discussion or debate on the topic, dismissed as a "tool for the Zionist/neo-con conspiracy."

re: #70 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

please read Fisrt Strike.

the missile from the cruiser was to shot down a suicide jet that was going after the TWA flight.

that is why people are quiet.
it was an accident, trying to protect the people on the flight.
at least according to the guy that wrote the book.

re: #136 wargammer2005

re: #14 Ben Hur

clinton did nothing after the Cole bombing.

Except say 'Tsk-tsk! Bad terrorists!'.

Still had this bookmarked:

1998 Memo Cited Suspected Hijack Plot by Bin Laden

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

A secret intelligence document prepared for President Bill Clinton in December 1998 reported on a suspected plot by Osama bin Laden to hijack a U.S. airliner in an effort to force the United States to release imprisoned conspirators in the 1993 World Trade Center attacks.

Things to make you go hhmmm...
I seem to remember the hilldabeast saying that if bill had had a memo saying bin laden attacking within the US, he would have done something about it.

re: #141 grayp

re: #122 JammieWearingFool

Jammi, you really think Brit Hume will let this slide? No chance.

I guess I should clarify. By networks I'm talking Her Perkiness, Williams and whoever reads the TelePrompter on ABC these days.

Of course, Special Report will cover it.

Whatever the case, the boys at NewsBusters will let us know.

re: #132 Bob in Breckenridge

O/T re: Sandy Burglar, but why wouldn't the National Archives put everything brought there on microfilm, or scan it into computers, so in case of a fire, explosion, etc., there'd at least be a record of what is there, and then we'd know exactly Burglar stole from the American people trying to protect Clinton from looking the incompetent boob he was while "attempting" to fight terrorism for 8 years.

I think I read where it was scheduled to be done, but hadn't yet. May be wrong.

re: #147 phillygirl
The National Archives is still a paper-based organization, as is most of the federal government. It will be years and years before all documents are digitized. By the time the feds decided to purchase any system, it's already obsolete.

This delay is, I think, thanks to public purchasing and bid laws designed to protect the taxpayer's money. There's a good reason for these laws, but unfortunately, the processes put into place to comply AUTOMATICALLY cause a lengthy delay in getting a bid awarded - for a system this complicated, probably at least a year to issue, review and award the contract for the system.

re: #122 JammieWearingFool Hey Jammie! Please see my #116 - in primary elections, where Mrs. Obama may or may not have been taking a swipe at Hillary (and clearly was about Bush over family values, etc - see Drudge) methinks this may very well get some MSM coverage - if not from one of the Dem's (and with Obama I think that's likely) then from one of the Repub's - like RON PAUL! lol!

And the majority of Dems want them back in the Oval Office? She's gonna come real close to getting it (if she doesn't win it outright...)

We need to send these career criminals home forever...

re: #152 cosmo

re: #113 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Yes, but if you put 3,000, you'd get called a liar by the self-righteous left, who would then cite Wikipedia or CNN (equals) with the toll number of 2,973. You would then be disbarred from any public-forum discussion or debate on the topic, dismissed as a "tool for the Zionist/neo-con conspiracy."

Clinton Lied;2973 people died.
Still looks good to me, bumper sticker wise. Maybe no rounded numbers are used , but using the precise number who were murdered would also make people stop and think.

Or am I just being too optimistic?

if the troofers were consistent they would be having a conniption right now. they could easily spin this into bill clinton being part of a conspiracy with bin laden.

but these theories are nothing but an outer manifestation of their inner hatred of republicans.

Wal-Mart had a price roll-back on Clinton Action Figures, so I bought one.

What a rip-off!
The only moving part was the mouth.

It did come with removable trousers and cigar, though.

OT: But this song's title at least fits!

Oblivious!

Bill Clinton's lies in this instance did not cause 3,000 people to lose their lives at the WTC and Pentagon and Shanksville, PA. The Islamic terrorists are fully responsible.

Bill Clinton is responsible for not doing nearly enough to stop those terrorists from murdering my fellow countrymen and women. He claimed that he did, but the facts are incontrovertible and irrefutable. He did not. He had years to deal with the grave and gathering threat of al Qaeda, and he couldn't muster up anything more than a weak-worded action plan, even as the CIA was bumbling along from one crisis to another because it didn't have enough assets in the field to even begin to gather intel, let alone process it into actionable intel against al Qaeda and other persistent threats.

Sadly, I fear that the CIA is still playing catch up despite the changes done in the past few years. Entrenched bureaucracies are like that - they are resistent to change. Some headway has been made in being more aggressive and dealing with the threats via covert means, but there are those within the CIA who feel that it is their duty to leak classified intel to the media than to do their jobs of tracking down threats and stopping them - either with CIA assets or tasking other agencies to do the job.

#132 Bob in Breckenridge
#147 phillygirl

Perhaps the organizing/managing/policing of the National Archives should be contracted out to the Mormans - undisputed masters of record-keeping, that's for sure.

Yes. yes. Billy boy and Jimmah are the LLL idea of great Presidents.

/nuff said.

yay! clinton lied...big surprise. "to whom much have been given, much is expected..." and Clinton threw it all away.
To bad there are a lot of voters that believe his and her pablum. And that we'll have to go thru all this Clinton era again for 8 yrs! Juvenile behavior and no consequences.

What documents did Sandy Berger destroy?

The DNC-MSM will get to the bottom of it!

NOT!

Hokay. This is what I get for drinking too much caffeine and letting my imagination run wild. I am NOT a black helicopter guy. The way I framed my statement

No surprises. I think a bigger mystery is way Sandy Berger let his law license be pulled rather than fess up to what the documents he shredded said. My theory is that the Clintonites knew that 9/11 was going to happen, knew about it in some detail, and decided to punish the Bushies for winning the 2000 election by withholding the information.

does make it seem that way, though. Let me back waaay off of this statement and say the following in my own defense:

1. I don't think the Clintonites deliberately overlooked evidence pointing to the 9/11 attacks.

2. I'm pretty sure that they favored a law enforcement approach and that that colored their analysis of the data they had at hand.

3. I think that Sandy Berger figured out that he had seen data that would have pointed to the 9/11 attacks had it been interpreted within a jihad framework rather than a law enforcement framework.

4. I think, having realized that, Sandy decided to cover his and his boss's asses by destroying the data that would lead somebody else to conclude that the Clintonites didn't connect the dots.

5. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

re: #158 reine.de.tout

Yes, I understand the need for the feds to appear to award "unbiasedly." But the software industry doesn't have two-year upgrade cycles. They upgrade every 3-6 months or so. By the time a federal agency finally makes the decision to procure a new technology, it's already obsolete. Another problem is that in order to support any new technology/application, the hardware infrastructure needs upgrading too. The feds may buy new software products, but these products become "shelfware" if they don't have the servers, memory, and other performance components that enable any new software to run.

Run, run as fast as you can! You can't catch me I'm the Gingerbread man.

re: #146 Geepers

HA HA HA! That was great - wonderful selection of music too!

I'll bet that rider's eyes were as big as saucers about the time Rudolph took off. It appears you can see the rider leaning at the end. Bet the seat was also wet.

I did not have sex with that woman!..oh excuse, wrong lie- they all seem to jumble...

re: #86 GreenDroll

Billy had every reason to be happy at Mr. Browns demise. He was off the hook for a while on the Chinese campaign contributions and no one suspected him of killing Brown.

Actually, I DID suspect his demise was not accidental. An awful lot of people seemed to meet their "demise" at the hand of government in the Clinton years. Unprecendented, I'll bet.

I want Bill and Hillary back in the white house! Don't you!?!

Buzz Patterson's Dereliction of Duty contains a first-hand account of Clinton's refusal to take out Bin Laden when he had the chance.

Patterson was the Air Force attache to the White House at the time.

He just didn't think public opinion would support it.

Got this in an email several years ago and only cleaned up the typing and it remains a very damning piece on the Clintonistas. Remember this was 3 years ago (5/20/04 actually).

(The following appeared in the Durham, NC local paper as a letter to
the editor. Please forward to all on your list as this will put things in
perspective:)

Liberals claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war.
They complain about his prosecution of it. One liberal recently claimed Bush was the worst president in U.S. history.

Let's clear up one point: President Bush didn't start the war on
terror. Try to remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11.
Let's look at the worst president and mismanagement claims.
FDR led us into World War II.
Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman finished that war and started one in Korea.
North Korea never attacked us.
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year.

John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.
Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.
Bosnia never attacked us.
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by
Sudan and did nothing.
Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
Over 2,900 lives lost on 9/11.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us,
President Bush has liberated two countries, rushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 300 a year.
Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home.

Worst president in history? Come on!

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound.
That was a 51 day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less
time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to
destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Teddy Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!

It was quite easy to tell when SICK WILLIE LIED, if his mouth was open, you can be almost positive he was lying.

re: #42 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

The real question is why a supposedly Republican run DoJ let Burglar off so easily.

I've got a feeling that's only a question outside the beltway.

Inside the beltway, "It's just not done, old boy - qui bono." Too much fuss and the marks would wise up.

To quote Bierce, Qui Bono - meaning: but what good would that do me.

Or cramming in another Big Mac.

re: #8 joncelli

No surprises. I think a bigger mystery is way Sandy Berger let his law license be pulled rather than fess up to what the documents he shredded said. My theory is that the Clintonites knew that 9/11 was going to happen, knew about it in some detail, and decided to punish the Bushies for winning the 2000 election by withholding the information.

Yeah... and steel doesn't melt?

re: #161 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Too optimistic. Remember your audience.

It was easy to tell when Bill Clinton lied. All you had to do was watch for his lips to move.

One thing I want to tell the group is my last name is Clinton and for over 20 years I have taken more s**t from people because of that fact. I even had a lady refuse to marry me because of that name. The part that pi$$es me off the most is that Clinton is not the ex-presidents real name. His name is BLYTHE. I think he was named after the arm pit city of the same name on the Kallyfornia border. I just can't think of bearing this for another 8 years if Shillery gets in. Sorry Charles, 2 strikes against me, I also have an .EDU email account.

/complaining off

#24 insanity police

Then she will be free to find a first lady.

helen thomas?

When I saw pieces of that interview with clinton, I knew he was lying when he said this:

“I worked hard to try to kill him. I authorized a finding for the CIA to kill him. We contracted with people to kill him. I got closer to killing him than anybody has gotten since.”

Ok, clinton, explain how come he operated out in the open and now has been reduced to a cave somewhere under Bush's command? Why was bin laden reduced to conversing with us via secret videotapes after bush took over but not you? I think bin laden is probably pushing up daisies now but the fact is, he's not out in the open operating like he was under clinton.

If I recall correctly clinton was offered bin laden and we didn't follow through for a few reasons and he was then let go. We knew where he was and could have assassinated him but we didn't.

I agree with the article that the blame needs to get put on the tripe who did 9/11 and other attacks..bin laden, al qaeda, and terrorism...but all be damned if I'm going to nod my head and go yes, mr. ex president when he is bold face lying.

[Running in place and wailing] I'm not a Truther! I'm not I'm not I'm not! [collapses on floor]

Mom said, "joncelli, you really should keep your wild theories to yourself." Mom's a smart lady.

re: #178 bolivar

Thanks for putting that all in perspective..good article.

re: #66 goodbye_natalie

re: #40 bosforus

i remember watching that when i was in my early teens and just thinking, how can people like this guy?

I remember watching in at my 30s and thinking how can people be so blind?

I was never sure if I was too smart and could see through his chicanery or if I wasn't smart enough to get it. I'm hoping it's the former rather than the latter.

re: #186 Highrise

When I saw pieces of that interview with clinton, I knew he was lying when he said this:

“I worked hard to try to kill him. I authorized a finding for the CIA to kill him. We contracted with people to kill him. I got closer to killing him than anybody has gotten since.”

Ok, clinton, explain how come he operated out in the open and now has been reduced to a cave somewhere under Bush's command? Why was bin laden reduced to conversing with us via secret videotapes after bush took over but not you? I think bin laden is probably pushing up daisies now but the fact is, he's not out in the open operating like he was under clinton.

If I recall correctly clinton was offered bin laden and we didn't follow through for a few reasons and he was then let go. We knew where he was and could have assassinated him but we didn't.

I agree with the article that the blame needs to get put on the tripe who did 9/11 and other attacks..bin laden, al qaeda, and terrorism...but all be damned if I'm going to nod my head and go yes, mr. ex president when he is bold face lying.

Excellent points.

re: #26 joncelli

re: #16 zmdavid

Fair enough. It's a theory, not a conclusion. I guess I'm just frustrated that we haven't heard much, much more about this and wonder what would cause Berger to accept such sacrifices rather than tell the whole story.

And it's evident by seeing berger get off pretty much scott free over something pretty major and definitely a crime...yet scooter libby is atleast questionable and it's over something that in the end, was found out not to be a crime (leaking of plame).

Yes, something smells...skunky. Exactly what, I dunno...but it smells.

re: #187 joncelli

Not to worry. Graceful recovery. Memories are short.

Silly people... Bill Clinton only lies about sex. Everybody lies about that. We just shouldn't pry into his personal life or character or ethics because that has nothing to do with how he does his job or runs the office of the leader of the free world and the only remaining superpower. He's a great man! The best president ever!

/

re: #150 Cygnus
How about White House Lounge Lizard or Penn. Ave. George Hamilton?

re: #178 bolivar

Ha. I love it! Some of it is shoddy history, but that's to be expected in these sorts of lists.

Best one, though: "It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound."

Clinton lied?

I bet his wife is furious at him and that she'll claim this report was once again part of the vast Right Wing Conspiracy!

Here is the video

How about :

Clinton Lied!
Osama Survived!

One of the first times that I saw Bill on TV my first thought was "pond scum". I was right.

His total lack of action when the USS Cole was attacked was truly disgusting. It was an act of war against the US and he didn't have a clue of how to react.

A great line that I heard years ago when he was Pres was that his idea of foreign policy was a fishing trip to Tennessee!

"One reason why George Washington
Is held in such veneration:
He never blamed his problems
On the former Administration."
-- George O. Ludcke

So then it's all Clinton's fault that Iraq is unraveling, the Taliban are regrouping in Pakistan and Osama bin Laughin' is still at large.

Oh-kaaayyy...

re: #43 lawhawk

As the CIA report summary indicates from yesterday, the CIA's Clinton years are not one that the agency would like to claim as being marked with successes.

It's not that they would like to claim these years as successful. it's that they can't.

re: #200 Sura 109

"One reason why George Washington
Is held in such veneration:
He never blamed his problems
On the former Administration."
-- George O. Ludcke

So then it's all Clinton's fault that Iraq is unraveling, the Taliban are regrouping in Pakistan and Osama bin Laughin' is still at large.

Oh-kaaayyy...

I see you're moving the goalposts... again.

This is just PERFECT!
Shrillary must chewing nails and spitting tacks!

LOLOLOLOLOLOL...
I Love it!

#200 Sura109

So, basically what you're saying is that none of the current mess is Clinton's fault? That he's not to be blamed for anything, even though he had 8 years to do somthing about Al-Queda, and flubbed it?

(I've criticized this current administration---but I don't think they'd have so many problems right now if Bill had done his job a bit better.)

re: #200 Sura 109

So then it's all Clinton's fault that Iraq is unraveling, the Taliban are regrouping in Pakistan and Osama bin Laughin' is still at large.

Who said that? Got a post number or link? Or is this another one of your exaggerations?

re: #193 cookielady

I believe you forgot something?
Hmmm...SARC!

re: #200 Sura 109

So then it's all Clinton's fault that Iraq is unraveling, the Taliban are regrouping in Pakistan and Osama bin Laughin' is still at large.

Clinton does have his share of problems.

From reading "Iraq unraveling" "the Taliban are regrouping" and "Osama bin Laden still at large", I suggest that a limited amount due diligence in resourcing news sources might be yours.

re: #200 Sura 109

Although the Ludcke quote is a keeper.

OT: This is an amazing historical smack-down of the left-wing media's attempts to re-write history to protect their bogus historical lie about Vietnam.

Returning to Cambodia
Killing fields of media fallacies.

money quote (and there are many)

Military historians seem to be converging on a consensus that by the end of 1972, the balance of forces in Vietnam had improved considerably, increasing the prospects for South Vietnam’s survival. That balance of forces was reflected in the Paris Agreement of January 1973, and the (Democratic) Congress then proceeded to pull the props out from under that balance of forces over the next 2 ½ years — abandoning all of Indochina to a bloodbath. This is now a widely accepted narrative of the endgame in Vietnam, and it has haunted the Democrats for a generation.

re: #209 mondoreb

Yeah- that is kind of good. But he's also venerated because he is a Great American Hero™. He truly is the Father of this Nation- God Rest his soul.

re: #211 Sharmuta

Yeah- that is kind of good. But he's also venerated because he is a Great American Hero™. He truly is the Father of this Nation- God Rest his soul.

AMEN.

Good G-d I'm back!
Do the rest of you feel like something is brewing,
over here...With all the little groups of wahabbi [bigoted word]s,
gathered together waiting,hiding,laying low...? Aye!

re: #207 mondoreb

re: #200 Sura 109

So then it's all Clinton's fault that Iraq is unraveling, the Taliban are regrouping in Pakistan and Osama bin Laughin' is still at large.

Clinton does have his share of problems.

From reading "Iraq unraveling" "the Taliban are regrouping" and "Osama bin Laden still at large", I suggest that a limited amount due diligence in resourcing news sources might be yours.

It's called deflection from the topic. Why would Clinton sit there and lie once again? I just wonder what his wife is thinking about how to handle this loose cannon.

/Hi Mondo
oc

Clinton lied.

BTW, which Clinton was it again?

So ... are we going to get another '2 for the price of 1' again in 2008?

Wake me when it's over.

re: #202 Ginn

I see you're moving the goalposts... again.

It's the Left's preferred solution when the other team threatens to score.

Hi Ginn.
Great day to be a lizard.
You just get here?

Rush has been talking about this.

re: #216 mondoreb

re: #202 Ginn

I see you're moving the goalposts... again.

It's the Left's preferred solution when the other team threatens to score.

Hi Ginn.
Great day to be a lizard.
You just get here?

Hi Mondo

Yes it is a great day to be a lizard.
Pretty much, yes.
oc

re: #214 Ginn

I don't know if sura's deflecting or just intentionally putting words collectively in our mouths. Maybe sura was hoping someone would agree and it could go back to kos to use it to collectively smear the right and/or LGF. In other words- sura is trolling.

re: #217 newsjunkie_ky

Rush has been talking about this.

What has Rush had to say?

re: #220 Ginn

Seasoned citizens are having more sex than we think.

re: #221 LaMano

Lewinsky's ... ewww ... stop ... enough ...

re: #220 Ginn

re: #217 newsjunkie_ky

Rush has been talking about this.

What has Rush had to say?

Basically everything we've been saying here. And how hillary will have the same people with her adm. if she (Please, please NOOO) gets it. And that NO msm(s) are picking up the story.

re: #222 LaMano

re: #221 LaMano

Lewinsky's ... ewww ... stop ... enough ...

I say GO FOR IT!

After reading the entire article, I am inclined to give President Clinton the benefit of the doubt on this particular occasion. It would certainly not be the first time-nor the last, that the CIA has apparently not understood the mission details being tasked.

When, exactly, has Clinton told the simple truth? The man is a chronic liar - as is his wife.

Clinton launched 75 cruise missiles at bin Laden just nine years ago; at the time, you guys called it "wagging the dog." It was, rather obviously, a substantial attempt to kill him.

Absolutely awesome book that exposes the Clintons for who they are:

Dereliction of Duty: The Eyewitness Account of How Bill Clinton Compromised America's National Security

For Bill, Hillary and the leftist leadership conservatives are the real enemy not Bin Laden or other terrorists. When she stated that no one would be invisible under her Presidency my first thought was "We are all Branch Davidians now". Bill wouldn't target Bin Laden for death because it would cause innocent deaths but that didn't stop him in Waco

re: #227 Bob Munck

Clinton launched 75 cruise missiles at bin Laden just nine years ago; at the time, you guys called it "wagging the dog." It was, rather obviously, a substantial attempt to kill him.

Sorry that was at empty desert. DHN (Didn't hit nothing) which is pretty hard with cruise missiles.

re: #70 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

I will say I doubt that Clinton could have kept the entire CIA/national intelligence organizations quiet about the impedning 9-11 attacks, even if many were Clinton loyalists. Conspiracy theories depend on people staying quiet, and I don't think all the people with supposed knowledge of 9-11 would have permitted potentially tens of thousands to die.

If I recall correctly, Chelsea was in NYC that day.

re: #225 Outrider

You realize that in the 90s clinton did everything he could to discourage the intelligence community- from cutting their budgets to allowing field agents to be prosecuted if they missed their targets during an operation and struck an innocent by-stander to lax security.

In the first two years of his administration, do you know how many times clinton met with his hand-picked CIA director James Woolsey? Twice- with people in the room who did not have security clearances so he couldn't even speak in depth to clinton.

Remember John Deutch? He replaced Woolsey. He also had top secret documents on his unsecured computer in his home. clinton granted him a pardon before leaving office even though Deutch wasn't charged with a crime...at the time. The reno DoJ didn't seem to care, but the incoming Ashcroft DoJ was discussing it.

9/11 was the culmination of a massive intelligence failure. Many of the failures stem from the propagation of clinton's policies on National Security. The very idea of more "antics" by the clintonites in our intelligence agencies ought to send a shiver down your spine. Seriously.

re: #227 Bob Munck

Do you know why it failed?! Because Pakistan was alerted to the incoming violation of their air space giving bin laden time to escape.

Nor was that the only time clinton could have gotten obl.

#230 Paratrooper: Sorry that was at empty desert. DHN (Didn't hit nothing).

No, sorry, they hit the Zawa Kili Al Bader camp 94 miles south of Kabul, and the Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Khartoum, according to SecDef Cohen (a Republican, btw.). Speaker Newt characterized it as "the right thing to do."

There's very little desert in those mountains.

#235 buzzsawmonkey: Which mountains are you referring to?

Afghanistan, of course; that's where bin Laden was. The chemical factory in Kabul was just something that he owned.

I guess you've given up on the stupid claim that Clinton didn't really try to kill bin Laden, and are now just trying to distract by picking nits and making stuff up.

re: #236 Bob Munck

I guess you've given up on the stupid claim that Clinton didn't really try to kill bin Laden, and are now just trying to distract by picking nits and making stuff up.

Um- HELLO!

Yeah- that's what I thought bob.

/crickets!

re: #237 buzzsawmonkey

You seem to have suddenly glossed over your Khartoum reference-- ...

Make up your mind.

Get your story straight.

Not glossing over anything; they hit both places. Do you have trouble understanding that?

#233 Sharmuta: Do you know why it failed?! Because Pakistan was alerted to the incoming violation of their air space giving bin laden time to escape.

Sounds unlikely, but that's beside the point. If Clinton tried to kill bin Laden and for whatever reason failed, that still puts the lie to the claim that he didn't try.

re: #227 Bob Munck

Clinton launched 75 cruise missiles at bin Laden just nine years ago; at the time, you guys called it "wagging the dog." It was, rather obviously, a substantial attempt to kill him.

That's not what Clinton was referring to.

“What did I do? What did I do?” Clinton said at one point. “I worked hard to try to kill him. I authorized a finding for the CIA to kill him. We contracted with people to kill him. I got closer to killing him than anybody has gotten since.”

Clinton appeared to have been referring to a December, 1999 Memorandum of Notification (MON) he signed that authorized the CIA to use lethal force to capture, not kill, bin Laden.

The cruise missile strikes occurred in 1998. Did you even bother to read the article?

re: #232 Sharmuta

"You realize that in the 90s clinton did everything he could to discourage the intelligence community- from cutting their budgets to allowing field agents to be prosecuted if they missed their targets during an operation and struck an innocent by-stander to lax security..."

Please do not misunderstand me. I am willing to give the man a bye on this one citation. After reading the texts and knowing how the government wants things written, with all the i's dotted and t's crossed, if there was any ambiguity, the CIA would have gone with the safer route. The alternative is, as always, being crucified on the cross of public opinion and before the Congress for political points. Perhaps the better solution would have been for the President to have written the tasking message in such a way as to eliminate any doubt of what he did or did not want. It sounds like he wanted his "safety net" built into the tasking.
OK I'll give him half a bye instead of a whole one. ;-)>

re: #240 Bob Munck

Sounds unlikely, but that's beside the point.

Sorry- it's a fact, and it is the point. The attempt was half-*ssed from the beginning. It was doomed to fail at launch because the secrecy was breeched when Pakistan was alerted.

So the one attempt that was made was made half-*ssed. Yeah- clinton really tried.

re: #204 TalkinKamel

#200 Sura109

So, basically what you're saying is that none of the current mess is Clinton's fault? That he's not to be blamed for anything, even though he had 8 years to do somthing about Al-Queda, and flubbed it?

Private Citizen William Jefferson Clinton is out. President george w. bush is supposed to be in charge. I don't care if it's all Clinton's fault, or Bush I or St. Ronald or Franklin Roosevelt for that matter.

Osama bin Laughin' is still at large. george w. bush vowed to catch him "dead or alive." After six years he hasn't.

re: #244 Sura 109

re: #204 TalkinKamel

#200 Sura109

So, basically what you're saying is that none of the current mess is Clinton's fault? That he's not to be blamed for anything, even though he had 8 years to do somthing about Al-Queda, and flubbed it?

Private Citizen William Jefferson Clinton is out. President george w. bush is supposed to be in charge. I don't care if it's all Clinton's fault, or Bush I or St. Ronald or Franklin Roosevelt for that matter.

Osama bin Laughin' is still at large. george w. bush vowed to catch him "dead or alive." After six years he hasn't.

Just out of curiousity, do you think it's possible that he might not be alive?

re: #244 Sura 109

Osama bin Laughin' is still at large. george w. bush vowed to catch him "dead or alive." After six years he hasn't.

Except we haven't stopped going after him. Your point would be valid if we , say, cut-n-run.

re: #227 Bob Munck

Clinton launched 75 cruise missiles at bin Laden just nine years ago; at the time, you guys called it "wagging the dog." It was, rather obviously, a substantial attempt to kill him.

Well, the only time I thought about "wagging the Dog" was the timing involved. I mean...for years he avoided any action and then takes action during his impeachment procedings. That raised my suspicions.

AND

I thought "Wag the Dog" was a children's cartoon.
Like "Wag, the Dog".

re: #232 Sharmuta

"...9/11 was the culmination of a massive intelligence failure. Many of the failures stem from the propagation of clinton's policies on National Security. The very idea of more "antics" by the clintonites in our intelligence agencies ought to send a shiver down your spine. Seriously..."

I would actually take this a step further. The disintegration of the national intelligence apparatus started back in President Fords days when the Church Commission shredded the intelligence agencies.
Although President Reagan managed to bring quite a bit of it back, we had lost the capabilities of HUMINT (spies, etc), wiretapping, mail surveillance, as well as tying the hands of the agencies themselves in most cases.
It was only through the efforts of Rumsfeld and Robert Ellsworth that the total dismantling of the CIA and other intelligence organizations was prevented.
I believe if any one person or organization was culpable for enabling 9/11 to occur, it could be laid at the doorstep of Sen Church.

re: #236 Bob Munck
I

guess you've given up on the stupid claim that Clinton didn't really try to kill bin Laden, and are now just trying to distract by picking nits and making stuff up.

I'm not giving up on it.

re: #244 Sura 109

Osama bin Laughin' is still at large. george w. bush vowed to catch him "dead or alive." After six years he hasn't.

I'm looking for a link that will substantiate his still being able to breathe.
And not finding much.

re: #245 David Simon

Just out of curiousity, do you think it's possible that he might not be alive?

I agree.

re: #241 David Simon

That's not what Clinton was referring to.

The cruise missile strikes occurred in 1998. Did you even bother to read the article?

Note this paragraph (emphasis added):

Clinton appeared to have been referring to a December 1999 Memorandum of Notification (MON) he signed that authorized the CIA to use lethal force to capture, not kill, bin Laden.

You're quoting a right-wing hack's supposition of what Clinton was referring to, a characterization that is itself internally contradictory. This will be difficult for you to understand, but lethal force is often lethal. Obviously it would have been preferable to capture bin Laden rather than to kill him, because capture left open the possibilities for trial and execution and eliminates the possibility of impostors. Also note outrider's comments above. The CIA, screwed up as always, couldn't understand that having aimed a large number of cruise missiles at bin Laden the previous year indicated a strong desire to kill him. Your claim, and the article's, is full of holes.

There seems to be a common misconception among many people that finding one man in the world is as simple as putting his picture on "Americas' Most Wanted" and a milk carton and he will be located just like that, (snapping thumb and finger)
The man has all the wealth needed to work his disappearing act. This enables him to purchase the required items. He has the sympathy of some government officials in that neck of the woods. He is surrounded by his council and bodyguards, all of whom are related or he has known since boyhood. To boot, he went into some of the most rugged and inaccessible terrain in the world. (try looking at that area via Google Earth) And he does not want to be found.
If he is still alive, he will be found. But it will take time, patience, and persistence. If he has assumed room temperature, we will know at sometime.
But this nonsense of thinking you can put out a wanted poster as well as a lot of boots on the ground looking and we will catch him right off the bat is absurd.

re: #248 Outrider

re: #232 Sharmuta

"...9/11 was the culmination of a massive intelligence failure. Many of the failures stem from the propagation of clinton's policies on National Security. The very idea of more "antics" by the clintonites in our intelligence agencies ought to send a shiver down your spine. Seriously..."

I would actually take this a step further. The disintegration of the national intelligence apparatus started back in President Fords days when the Church Commission shredded the intelligence agencies.
Although President Reagan managed to bring quite a bit of it back, we had lost the capabilities of HUMINT (spies, etc), wiretapping, mail surveillance, as well as tying the hands of the agencies themselves in most cases.
It was only through the efforts of Rumsfeld and Robert Ellsworth that the total dismantling of the CIA and other intelligence organizations was prevented.
I believe if any one person or organization was culpable for enabling 9/11 to occur, it could be laid at the doorstep of Sen Church.

Maybe. But Scheuer - who's quoted in the Newsweek article (you know, the one Butt Munch didn't bother to read) - would disagree. According to him, Clinton's Deputy Attorney General, Jamie Gorelick, is responsible for the lack of communication between the various intelligence/law enforcement agencies that allowed 9/11 to happen.

re: #253 Bob Munck

Do not use me to support your argument. I do not believe the CIA is screwed up as always. An attempt one year to whack someone does not necessarily mean the same the following year. Example. Somalia. We expended troops and efforts to capture a warlord. President Clinton met with that warlord shortly thereafter on amiable terms.
An enemy today does not mean that entity is an enemy tomorrow. World politics and realities just do not work that way.

In the world of USA politics, if a specific action is desired, then it needs to be spelled out precisely. You do not make those type of assumptions when conducting operations of that nature.

re: #255 David Simon

Maybe. But Scheuer - who's quoted in the Newsweek article (you know, the one Butt Munch didn't bother to read) - would disagree. According to him, Clinton's Deputy Attorney General, Jamie Gorelick, is responsible for the lack of communication between the various intelligence/law enforcement agencies that allowed 9/11 to happen.

There may well be some culpability attached. However, if the Church Commission had not dismantled so much of the Human Intelligence (read local agents)community, we would have known so much more and possibly WTC1 or 9/11 would not have occurred. Maybe even the Beirut Barracks bombing and the USS Cole either. But all those agents in that neck of the woods were dismissed under some kind of bizarre logic that we did not want to deal with people that had "blood on their hands".

re: #253 Bob Munck

You're quoting a right-wing hack's supposition of what Clinton was referring to, a characterization that is itself internally contradictory.

I'm quoting the article you moron. And the article is quoting the Chris Wallace interview with Clinton. There's nothing contradictory about it.

This will be difficult for you to understand, but lethal force is often lethal. Obviously it would have been preferable to capture bin Laden rather than to kill him, because capture left open the possibilities for trial and execution and eliminates the possibility of impostors.

Then why did you lead off with this?:

Clinton launched 75 cruise missiles at bin Laden just nine years ago; at the time, you guys called it "wagging the dog." It was, rather obviously, a substantial attempt to kill him

Let's move on:

The CIA, screwed up as always, couldn't understand that having aimed a large number of cruise missiles at bin Laden the previous year indicated a strong desire to kill him.

What kind of dope are you on? What would be the point of lobbing 75 cruise missiles at a target if not to kill it?

Your claim, and the article's, is full of holes.

What "claim" of mine are you referring to?

re: #257 Outrider

re: #255 David Simon

Maybe. But Scheuer - who's quoted in the Newsweek article (you know, the one Butt Munch didn't bother to read) - would disagree. According to him, Clinton's Deputy Attorney General, Jamie Gorelick, is responsible for the lack of communication between the various intelligence/law enforcement agencies that allowed 9/11 to happen.

There may well be some culpability attached. However, if the Church Commission had not dismantled so much of the Human Intelligence (read local agents)community, we would have known so much more and possibly WTC1 or 9/11 would not have occurred. Maybe even the Beirut Barracks bombing and the USS Cole either. But all those agents in that neck of the woods were dismissed under some kind of bizarre logic that we did not want to deal with people that had "blood on their hands".

That may very well be. It's hard to argue that, say, Israel could have gotten to Yassin, Rantisi, The Engineer et al (or we could have gotten to Zarqawi for that matter) without some amount of dealing with the devil.

As for preventing 9/11, why wasn't Moussaoui's computer searched? As I understand it, one arm of the FBI didn't cooperate with the other. (Hell, when the FBI wanted to wiretap a Vietnamese national (Truong) during the Carter reign, it did.) Scheuer's contention is that there's too much competition with the various agencies, not that there aren't enough field agents.

re: #253 Bob Munck

The CIA, screwed up as always, couldn't understand that having aimed a large number of cruise missiles at bin Laden the previous year indicated a strong desire to kill him.

I'm sorry. The screw up happened at the Department of State, who alerted the Pakistanis that their air space was about to be violated by cruise missiles headed to Afghanistan.

#244 David Simon

Considering the fact that Osama used to be an attention hog along the lines of Brittany/Paris/Lindsey, boasting publicy of his mighty "exploits" and urging his followers to jihad---and considering that, for a long time now, Mr. Attention-Pig has been oddly silent, sending us only the occasional tape, which may have been cobbled together out of old clippings, and letting his lowly subordinates do all this talking for him, I can only conclude one of two things:

Either. . .

1. He's still alive---sort've, but an encounter with a daisy cutter or the like has damaged him to the point that his followers don't think he's ready for his close-up, Mr. Demille! It might be kinda demoralizing for the jihadis to see the mighty binnie hooked up to numerous bags and wires.

Or. . .

2. He's dead. He is deceased. He is an ex Bin-Ladin, and he's not pining for the fjords! He's really, most sincerely dead. . .

In any event, I don't think he's laughing---at Bush, or anybody else. Anyway, I agree with Orianna Fallaci, in that this war was never just about Bin Ladin.

re: #258 David Simon

You're quoting a right-wing hack's supposition of what Clinton was referring to ...

I'm quoting the article you moron.

And the article was written by Michael Isikoff, a right-wing hack who has been obsessed with Bill Clinton for more than a decade. Isikoff said in the article that "Clinton appeared to have been referring to a December 1999 Memorandum of Notification..." Note the words "appeared to have been;" pure speculation on Isikoff's part.

And the article is quoting the Chris Wallace interview with Clinton. There's nothing contradictory about it.

Isikoff went on to say that the MOU "authorized the CIA to use lethal force to capture, not kill, bin Laden." Note the words "use lethal force" and "not kill;" the phrase is inherently self-contradictory.

What kind of dope are you on? What would be the point of lobbing 75 cruise missiles at a target if not to kill it?

Precisely my point; the CIA knew that Clinton had attempted to kill bin Laden a year earlier. Why would they then interpret the MOU as allowing them to "use lethal force" but not kill him? The CIA screwed up then, and are now parsing and spinning the words to hide their own failures. There's certainly no question that Clinton made a serious effort to kill bin Laden.

Oh yes, and Sura, that's my answer to your #244, also. It's really not all about binnie. It never was. It's partly about how the Clinton administration, through various mistakes, allowed Islamic terrorism to flourish. (All those missiles didn't get binnie either, and Clinton's lackluster response to both the Cole bombing and the first World Trade Center bombing just encouraged our enemies to think we were weak.)

It's also, very much, about the return of warlike Islam, and the west's blinding itself to the dangers of the same.

The Clinton Jihad Get Out of Jail Free card is an unacceptbale choice for America to return to.

This is why Rudy will humiliate Hillary.

What? Billie Clinton was caught telling a lie? I couldn't be more shocked.