LGF

-RetweetNewsweek: The Ongoing Hunt for Osama Bin Laden

Sun, Aug 26, 2007 at 11:55:56 am PDT

Newsweek comes in for plenty of well-deserved criticism around here, particularly for their egregious whitewashes of radical Islam and their blatantly leftist bias, but here’s an article they did right: The Ongoing Hunt for Osama bin Laden.

It’s a little difficult to read, because it confirms all our worst fears about the insane bureaucracy and fear of risk that has hobbled the war against militant Islam.

The frustrations of the snake eaters [Special Forces operatives. – ed.] are well illustrated by the recollections of Adam Rice, the operations sergeant of a Special Forces A-Team working out of a safe house near Kandahar in 2002. With his close-cropped orange hair and beard, wearing a yellow Hawaiian shirt around the safe house, Rice was not the sort to shine at inspections at boot camp. But he had lived in Kabul as a child (his father had been a USAID worker) and he had been a Special Forces operator for more than two decades. In July 2002, a CIA case officer told Rice that a figure believed to be Mullah Omar, the one-eyed chief of the Taliban, had been tracked by aerial drone to a location in the Shahikot Valley, a short flight to the north. The Taliban chief and his entourage would be vulnerable to a helicopter assault, but the Americans had to move quickly.

Rice was not optimistic about getting timely permission. Whenever he and his men moved within five kilometers of the safe house, he says, they had to file a request form known as a 5-W, spelling out the who, what, when, where and why of the mission. Permission from headquarters took hours, and if shooting might be involved, it was often denied. To go beyond five kilometers required a CONOP (for “concept of operations”) that was much more elaborate and required approval from two layers in the field, and finally the Joint Special Operations Task Force at Baghram air base near Kabul. To get into a fire fight, the permission of a three-star general was necessary. “That process could take days,” Rice recalled to NEWSWEEK. He often typed forms while sitting on a 55-gallon drum his men had cut in half to make a toilet seat. “We’d be typing in 130-degree heat while we’re crapping away with bacillary dysentery and sometimes the brass at Kandahar or Baghram would kick back and tell you the spelling was incorrect, that you weren’t using the tab to delimit the form correctly.”

But Rice made his request anyway. Days passed with no word. The window closed; the target—whether Mullah Omar or not—moved on. Rice blames risk aversion in career officers, whose promotions require spotless (“zero defect”) records—no mistakes, no bad luck, no “flaps.” The cautious mind-set changed for a time after 9/11, but quickly settled back in. High-tech communication serves to clog, rather than speed the process. With worldwide satellite communications, high-level commanders back at the base or in Washington can second-guess even minor decisions.

In Pakistan, President Musharraf was wary of his American allies in the War on Terror. In 2002, he told a high-ranking British official: “My great concern is that one day the United States is going to desert me. They always desert their friends.”

Advertisement

342 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 easy  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 11:56:49am

They better bring a shovel.

2 Split Level Head  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:01:14pm
In Pakistan, President Musharraf was wary of his American allies in the War on Terror. In 2002, he told a high-ranking British official: “My great concern is that one day the United States is going to desert me. They always desert their friends.”

No, that is only Democrats who desert the friends of the US. He should very much fear a Democratic victory in '08.

3 Highrise  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:02:11pm

I just can't read newsweek after some of the tripe they have put out. I simply don't trust them. I'd rather read time and I think that publication is crap too.

Maybe other lizards can give better books to read, but I rather enjoyed Tommy Frank's book on the subject - American Soldier. It seemed well reasoned some of the decisions made in afghanistan.

4 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:02:24pm

Still working on my theory. The site just dragged about the time the new thread hit.

5 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:03:45pm

Charles, thanks for giving credit where it's due. It pays dividends, but I don't have to tell you that.

6 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:04:19pm

I know this is going to give Marcos and the KKKOS kids head-aches, but this is a perfect scenario for Blackwater.

They understand it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

7 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:06:02pm

I guess thats what happens when you get people who care more about their career advancement than getting the job done. It sounds like corporate style mangement to me.. like when the Air Force went to the TQM bullshit.

8 redshirt  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:06:36pm

Where's Mitch Rapp when you need him?

9 6pat6  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:06:41pm

When a set of Rules Of Engagement (ROE) for any particular theater of operations is conceived or modified, it must go through a battery of lawyers before they are approved. Can't just find and kill the bad guy anymore, unfortunately. We've got rules to fight by...

The enemy does not.

10 6pat6  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:07:18pm

#7 bacon --- NOOO! Not the dreaded "Q"-word!

11 Lazarus  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:07:27pm
In Pakistan, President Musharraf was wary of his American allies in the War on Terror. In 2002, he told a high-ranking British official: “My great concern is that one day the United States is going to desert me. They always desert their friends.”

You've got a fuck of a lot of nerve, calling us backstabbers. You harbor terrorist enemies of America and the civilized world. You designate whole regions of your country as rebel areas too volatile to hold under your law, and which allow terrorist gangs to run rampant. Some friend you are. International agreements aren't suicide pacts. Maybe if you create a culture worthy of friendship, you can expect us to keep our word.

12 m  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:08:19pm
They claimed that the CIA overly relied on the third chieftain, Hazrat Ali—and that Ali was paid off (to the tune of $6 million) by Al Qaeda to let bin Laden slip away. Ali could not be reached for comment.

Unintentionally funny.

13 6pat6  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:08:55pm

Why we sell them F-16s boggles me. They (like Saudi Arabia) are NOT America's friends - except when it is convenient.

14 The Sanity Inspector  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:10:10pm

In Robin Moore's The Hunt For Bin Laden, about the Green Berets in the Afghanistan war, he describes the frustration of the Special Forces on OBL's escape from Tora Bora. Apparently he was cornered in a high valley, and could have been bagged within hours by nearby SAS and other SF. But the higher-ups, chary of casualties among the highly trained secret warriors, stood them down, and so away Bin Laden crept. "Lions commanded by donkeys", indeed.

15 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:10:20pm

OT
Crushed glass to be spread on beaches
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

16 MICHAEL in MI  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:10:24pm

How do we know they got it right this time? Personally I don't trust anything from Newsweak, so I don't get why people are taking this article as something they have "gotten right". Can someone explain why I should take this article as "right" when pretty much everything else they have written is agenda-driven garbage and lies?

17 MICHAEL in MI  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:10:57pm

For the record, I haven't read the article yet. I just want to know why I should spend my time doing so.

18 6pat6  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:11:54pm

OT reply ---

"Basically, what we're doing is taking the material and returning it back to its natural state," said Phil Bresee, Broward's recycling manager.

Glass decomposes back to sand, I'm taking from this? Don't think so.

19 Abu Bin Squid  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:12:06pm

#14 6pat6
I'm afraid you comment could be used concerning many of our "friends". Too bad we've choosen to be the wet nurse to the world instead of wielding our big stick. Why are we afraid of what other countries think of us? They hate us already.

20 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:12:12pm

re: #17 MICHAEL in MI

For the record, I haven't read the article yet. I just want to know why I should spend my time doing so.

here’s an article they did right: The Ongoing Hunt for Osama bin Laden.

It’s a little difficult to read, because it confirms all our worst fears about the insane bureaucracy and fear of risk that has hobbled the war against militant Islam.

21 screaming_eagle  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:12:23pm

But the MSM tells us that the reins are so free our forces kill innocent civilians for the fun of it.

22 easy  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:12:48pm

While there is no doubt bureaucracies impede progress of any kind, and the military is, as is any large organization, bureaucratic, there are laws and rules in warfare and if you violate them you can end up in prison. Makes people careful.

23 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:13:39pm

re: #18 6pat6
Sand and soda ash were its beginnings, right?

24 marwan's daughter  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:13:43pm

On a related note, here's the latest piece from Steven Emerson: CAIR for Dummies

25 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:14:36pm

They found him! Here's the newest pictures from the tribal area of Pakistan!

[Link: www.photoshoppix.com...]

26 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:14:48pm

I'll bet if we rounded up his wives and his mothers and most of his kids and relatives (you know.. sort of get soviet on his ass like the russkies did to the hitler family) I'll bet he'd come out of hiding quite quickly. I don't buy the media crap that his family has disowned him.

27 Silhouette  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:15:39pm

re: #15 cbinflux

Mommy, why is the beach green like Daddy's special bottles in the fridge in the garage?

28 pat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:15:58pm

Remember the lawyer that wouldn't allow the predator to take out Omar because he was in a Mosque? That is the mind set of these morons.

29 MICHAEL in MI  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:17:08pm

re: #22 easy

While there is no doubt bureaucracies impede progress of any kind,
and the military is, as is any large organization, bureaucratic, there
are laws and rules in warfare and if you violate them you can end up in
prison. Makes people careful.


Exactly. Look at all the hand-wringing about Haditha. Those Marines followed RoE and unfortunately, civilians were killed. But such is war, when the enemy using civilians as human shields.

Also, anyone who has read the book Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell knows that part of their decision-making had to do with how they felt the media would tar and feather them afterwards.

These things do not happen in a bubble. I would like to know how many decisions were made or not made based on the treasonous coverage of the mass media. It seems this thread is about demonizing the beaurocracy, but I bet a big part of their decisions were based on how they would affect bad press.

30 Lawrence Schmerel  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:17:32pm

My concern is that Newsweek will only print stories about the "insane bureaucracy and fear of risk" as long as there is a Republican administration. Such stories will end when there is a Democrat administration. But the egregious whitewashes of radical Islam and the blatantly leftist bias will continue.

31 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:17:36pm

re: #25 Desert Dog
Bad link, btw, did you sign in at the Reuter's Photoshop Workshop desk?

Reuters
Today: 0
Yesterday: 0

32 pat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:17:38pm

re: #15 cbinflux

Just finished that article. We have 2 such beaches here, one very small, one quite large. Both were dump sites. Gorgeous.

33 redshirt  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:18:05pm

re: #26 baconeatingkaffir

I don't think that would work. In fact, I'll bet he would pull a Keyser Soze to prevent it.

34 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:18:42pm

re: #27 Silhouette

Hater! Joe Sixpack never did anything to you...

35 FightingBack  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:19:13pm
“My great concern is that one day the United States is going to desert me. They always desert their friends.”

With friends like you...

36 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:19:44pm

re: #32 pat

You probably know that many of Hawaii's white sand beaches came from Oz..?

37 mikeysdca  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:19:55pm

Musharraf is right, of course. No sane foreigner will trust us.

38 MICHAEL in MI  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:20:12pm

re: #29 MICHAEL in MI

I should add the overly critical lawyers of the military and ACLU in addition to the mass media scrutiny.

Our leaders have to deal with an enemy media and an enemy legal system in addition to an enemy Democrat Party. Does this make it right that they did not make key decisions to go after terrorists? No. But it is the world in which we live that such things (enemy media, enemy Democrat Party, ACLU, enemy Human Rights groups, etc) have to be taken into account when making decisions.

39 Racer X  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:20:21pm

OBL should be captured or killed at all costs. Allowing him to remain a beacon of hope for terrorists is costing lives.

The message needs to be clear: Anyone who pisses off America will be dealt with harshly.

40 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:21:11pm

re: #30 Lawrence Schmerel

Whatever could make you think that?!
///

41 redshirt  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:21:18pm

re: #39 Racer X

Can I get an "Amen"!

42 6pat6  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:22:39pm

re: #19 Abu Bin Squid

I really don't care who "likes" us. The world (and especially the ME!) wants our stuff, our tech, our money, our expertise (because they can't do any of that themselves!), but don't want US and only want US around in times of natural disaster or when THEIR power in endangered.

43 screaming_eagle  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:22:42pm

re: #39 Racer X

Anyone who pisses off America will be dealt with harshly.

Murtha?
Durbin?
Obama?
Edwards?
Kerry?

44 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:22:49pm

#29 MICHAEL in MI

The operators we have in the field can clearly get the job done.

With at least $25M on Omar and Osama's (didn't say Obama's) head, why hasn't Blackwater or any of a dozen other similar Corporations got the job done?

Is out State Department sitting on them? Would political pressure release the Dogs of War? That's the question that needs to be asked at this point.

45 sandspur  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:23:36pm

In Marcus Lutrell's new bestseller "Lone Survivor", he and his SEAL team were dispatched to the Afghanistan Hindu Kush to capture or kill a high value target. While they were in country, before they had aquired the target, some herders discovered them. The choice was to kill the herders so they couldn't give them away to the Taliban, and in so doing risk prosecution for murder of "innocent civilians" upon their return from the mission. They chose not to kill the herders, who promptly gave them away to the Taliban and in the ensuing nutroll, three of the four man SEAL team were killed, as will as a helicopter full of SEALS who went to attempt a rescue of the team.
That is the effect our risk averse, PC Pentagon has in the field.

46 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:23:37pm

re: #39 Racer X

Alive, he's a PITA; Dead, he's a martyred PITA.

Six of one...

47 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:24:09pm

NUKES...that is the only reason we still care Musharraf is still leading Pakistan. He's a bastard, but he's "our bastard". That is the only reason we have not started bombing the crap out of the "tribal regions" of that messed up country. That is why the AQ types hang out there...it is probably the only place they can still hide and not get vaporized by a J-DAM or a hellfire from a Predator (well, the mad mullahs of Iran might let them stay...the enemy of my enemy, blah, blah). If we do anything in that area, the "Muslim street" will rise up and knock good old Perez out of office and get the keys to the missiles...can't have that, you know...we are in a tough spot here. Damned if we do, damned if we do not. If we do nothing, AQ will still be a player...if we do something...it might be worse. I guess we have to sit and wait for the next 9-11 before we get enough courage to do anything about it... :-(

It sure would have been nice to match the DNA of a red spot on the wall of a cave in Tora Bora a few years back though, eh?

48 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:25:09pm

re: #43 screaming_eagle

re: #39 Racer X

Anyone who pisses off America will be dealt with harshly.

Murtha?
Durbin?
Obama?
Edwards?
Kerry?

PELOSI!

49 Racer X  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:25:59pm

re: #43 screaming_eagle

re: #39 Racer X

Anyone who pisses off America will be dealt with harshly.

Murtha?
Durbin?
Obama?
Edwards?
Kerry?


Don't distract me with logic!

;-)

50 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:26:23pm

#48 cbinflux

Go ahead and add Warner to The List

51 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:26:45pm

re: #47 Desert Dog

If it comes to that, Obama will take aout the nukes and then OBL. ~/

India would be glad to help.

52 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:27:01pm

I still think it's time our government told the rest of the world to STFU and let us conduct business. After all, it was most of the Euros who have harbored and indirectly supported these islamic douchebags.

53 6pat6  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:27:16pm

"...against all enemies, both foreign AND domestic..."

Certainly fits #49!

54 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:28:35pm

re: #45 sandspur
IF ONLY, the seals could depend on their brothers to STHU!

55 screaming_eagle  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:29:00pm

re: #53 6pat6

So Help Me God

56 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:29:11pm

re: #51 cbinflux

I think I will move the the tribal region of Pakistan if Obama gets elected...nukes are off the table, remember?

57 Highrise  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:29:18pm

re: #45 sandspur

In Marcus Lutrell's new bestseller "Lone Survivor", he and his SEAL team were dispatched to the Afghanistan Hindu Kush to capture or kill a high value target. While they were in country, before they had aquired the target, some herders discovered them. The choice was to kill the herders so they couldn't give them away to the Taliban, and in so doing risk prosecution for murder of "innocent civilians" upon their return from the mission. They chose not to kill the herders, who promptly gave them away to the Taliban and in the ensuing nutroll, three of the four man SEAL team were killed, as will as a helicopter full of SEALS who went to attempt a rescue of the team.

That is the effect our risk averse, PC Pentagon has in the field.

That was so sad. I've listened to this guy give his story :( . It's too bad they let those herders live...but hindsight is 20/20.

58 Racer X  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:29:22pm

re: #46 cbinflux

re: #39 Racer X

Alive, he's a PITA; Dead, he's a martyred PITA.

Six of one...

I say kill him no matter the cost. More dead martyrs is ok with me. Martyr every f*ckin one of their heros.

59 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:30:04pm

re: #50 BulgarWheat

Done, and Pinch, and Thomas, and Rall...

60 docremulac  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:30:49pm

The top brass would correct the spelling on a time sensitive operations request? Is this a friggin Monty Python skit?

Here's their 5 W form (Who,what, when, why, where)

Who - The worldwide army of islamofascists.
What - Taking over the world.
When - Right f*cking now!
Why - Because we're too weak and stupid to stop them.
Where - Everywhere.

61 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:31:05pm

re: #56 Desert Dog

It doesn't take a nuke to kill a nuke.

62 Silhouette  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:31:08pm

re: #52 baconeatingkaffir

In a way, we do that. Just diplomatically.

"We understand you're objection." Then we go ahead and do what we have to.

"Of course we'll meet with you to discuss your plan." Then we go ahead and do what we have to do.

"Yes, so sorry you didn't like that. Tell us what you would rather us have done." Then we continue doing what we have to do.

Okay, I'm dreaming. But we do the above to some degree. That's the "arrogant unilateral cowboys" Americans everyone is complaining about. They insist we bully them into doing what we like, yet turn around and have a stroke if we do what they do not like.

63 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:32:18pm

re: #58 Racer X

Okay, ya talked me into it. What caliber do you need; I'm low on anything below .40?

64 BenZacharia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:32:19pm

The author has shown itself to be a total asshat right out of the box, big suprise, by using a term the operators hate.

65 screaming_eagle  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:32:41pm

re: #58 Racer X

Agreed. He is already a hero to them. So let him be a DEAD hero.

66 easy  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:33:39pm

Of course if we got Omar and bin Laden the "War On Terror" would be over and the BushChenyHalibutonHitler Machine would have no excuse to steal Afghanistan's oil!

67 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:33:43pm

Patton was assasinated?
Ollie North investigates.

/Lucky that e'thing wasn't shredded!

68 Ojoe  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:34:36pm

re: #57 Highrise

This PC stuff probably will continue until the fanatic muslims smuggle a nuke into the USA and set it off.

Then we will respond in such a way as to win, and we will ask, why didn't we respond this way in October 2001.

Bush bears much of the blame in my opinion.

69 Highrise  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:35:11pm
In Pakistan, President Musharraf was wary of his American allies in the War on Terror. In 2002, he told a high-ranking British official: “My great concern is that one day the United States is going to desert me. They always desert their friends.”

How can this possibly be verified? This is what makes me SICK and tired of the media and I consider most of them no better than the Enquirer. Key things are a lot of times *invisible*, *unnamed*, *so and so said*...

The lefties whine and bitch because the Administration is so secretive..well wth is the MSM so secretive about their sources. Why not name the british official? Was he alone? Who else heard this?

70 pat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:35:34pm

re: #36 cbinflux

Nah, that is rumor. The University of Hawaii did both a study of shipping records and a geologic review of the beaches. Every beach. There has been no large importation of sand at all, with the exception of a special sand from Japan for really good golf courses and silica for construction. They can now identify the source of sand in a measurement down to a teaspoon. In fact I know the exact age of the sand dunes behind my house. Hawaii sand is different than continental sand. It is made up calcium carbonate, the exo-skeletons of tiny mollusca. By differentiating the species and determining the nature of the lava rock, they can identify the beach where the sand came from. No natural silica sand like Oz or the USA. By the way, Florida sand is also silica.

71 Highrise  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:36:31pm

re: #68 Ojoe


He bares some blame..but I won't go so far as to saying *much*. Seeing how very little support he gets from congress and has to fight them more than the enemy...there is a lot of blame to be spread...a lot.

72 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:36:35pm

#67 cbinflux

George Patton was obviously correct about the former Soviets.

They viewed him as a reckless cowboy also.

Think of the millions of lives that would have saved, not to mention hundreds of billions of dollars!

F'n bureaucrat's!

73 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:36:59pm

re: #68 Ojoe

It doesn't take a nuke to kill and/or sicken many Americans. China has proved that in spades, and they and and Palis still pump fake meds into the USA daily. One example only.

74 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:37:20pm

We have to send a message to these people living in this region. The world is not a big as it used to be. They are not some isolated little group existing in a vacuum any longer. The tribal leaders that are in league with the Taliban and AQ need to be brought into reality. We need to make people that harbor these scumbags pay a price. Economical or physical force must be brought down on them. Once it becomes painful for them, we will start seeing Mullah Omar and Osama surfacing. Until then, we might as well join our brothers and sisters on the left and stick our collective heads in the sand...

75 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:38:21pm

re: #70 pat

H'mm, first heard that at Turtle Beach, and research showed that Ti rich sands were from Oz. circa 1991

76 rabidsquirrel  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:39:18pm
To go beyond five kilometers required a CONOP (for “concept of operations”) that was much more elaborate and required approval from two layers in the field, and finally the Joint Special Operations Task Force at Baghram air base near Kabul.

Ah, the dreaded CONOPs. I've seen how long they take to coordinate administratively on the logistics side. I can't imagine how much that must irk our forces in the field.

77 Ojoe  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:39:21pm

re: #71 Highrise

True. But it is his watch.

Compare:

[Link: www.americanrhetoric.com...]

(FDR's speech after Peral Harbor)

78 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:39:29pm

re: #74 Desert Dog

I agree. From wht I have seen of the middle east the only thing that mohammedians seem to understand is overwhelming firepower. It's only when they realize they're outgunned and regardless of what's gonna happen it's going to be bad for them.. they get quiet. I think thats what the Ottomans did to pacify them back in the day. Anything with a weapon was a threat.

79 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:39:56pm

Colored Undies are for Kuffrs...
Saudi Cleric Muhammad Al-Munajid: Western "Beasts" Use Colored Underwear to Conceal Their Filth (MEMRI)


We have counted almost 70 rules about how to urinate and defecate. In contrast, how do those beasts in the West answer the call of nature? They stand in front of other people, in toilets at airports and other public places. They do not care about covering their private parts. Even their underwear is colored and not white, so it can conceal all that filth. We are a nation that has long known the meaning of cleanliness, what to do when nature calls, and what the rules of hygiene are. The others, to this day, live like beasts.
80 Highrise  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:41:10pm

re: #77 Ojoe

re: #71 Highrise

True. But it is his watch.

Compare:

[Link: www.americanrhetoric.com...]

(FDR's speech after Peral Harbor)

Ojoe,

We do not live in a totalitarian gov't. That is my basis for me saying that it's not *mostly* on Bush's shoulders. I've watched long enough these past years how much he has had to fight off the red tape of what the congress pushes...I'm sickened by our media and lefties that want us to lose. They can NOT utter the words WE WANT TO WIN at all.

I want to see those two groups accept some responsibility for creating the bs of today.

81 Racer X  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:41:27pm

re: #66 easy

Of course if we got Omar and bin Laden the "War On Terror" would be over and the BushChenyHalibutonHitler Machine would have no excuse to steal Afghanistan's oil!

Those that are willing to pack up and leave once one man is dead are fools. I used to think it would be of no benefit to kill OBL because there are so many others that pose an eminent threat. I have changed my mind. Kill the MFer. The longer he breathes the more embolden others become.

They need to know we WILL hunt you down and kill you!

82 zmdavid  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:42:17pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

The others, to this day, live like beasts.


What beasts have colored underwear?

83 rabidsquirrel  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:42:29pm

re: #60 docremulac

The top brass would correct the spelling on a time sensitive operations request? Is this a friggin Monty Python skit?

Here's their 5 W form (Who,what, when, why, where)

Who - The worldwide army of islamofascists.
What - Taking over the world.
When - Right f*cking now!
Why - Because we're too weak and stupid to stop them.
Where - Everywhere.

Unfortunately, I don't doubt that one bit. I've had CONOPs and other coordination packages returned from an AF MAJCOM Directorate commander because the margins weren't to the Executive Officer's liking.

84 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:42:53pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

Aaah Killgore, that explains why the bastages stole my GI brown underpants off the lines when I first came here as a GI back in the day!

85 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:44:19pm

Little Saddam

“When you came and liberated this country,” he continued, “Iraq had 25 million Saddams. America is turning us back into human beings.

The quote makes me think, in rabbit-trail fashion, of an evening I enjoyed with a few Iraqi Army soldiers a few months ago. All three were officers- drawn from two different divisions to train new Iraqi soldiers to fight. I went up to Ali while he was smoking and said hello. He introduced himself, and invited me to join him and his friends for a movie. Partway through Apocalypto, he looked up from the scene of mass murder and brutality and exclaimed “See! It is like Saddam!”


Ali and one of the others laughed. The third soldier scowled, then laughed when Ali punched him in the arm. That was when I got introduced to the rest of the group. The other laughing soldier was Sayeed, the scowler, Saddam. Saddam was from Tikrit, and quite likely a relative of the “Big Saddam”, although I didn’t ask. His name is prominent among Sunnis- Saddam was a hero for a lot of years, after all. We talked for a while after the movie; Sayeed had been in the Iraqi Army for quite some time, Ali for a while as well. Saddam had joined more recently- he wanted to help Iraq become what it had been once. He told me that he wanted to try to help change Iraqis minds about Americans and the Iraqi Government, and give them something to do other than fight with each other.

When tribes stop fighting Americans and each other, when the citizens of two of the most strife-ridden cities in Iraq start to contemplate tomorrow, when a man from Tikrit named Saddam steps up to help Iraq...

That’s when I start to feel just a little bit of hope for this place.

Wow!

86 Highrise  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:44:28pm

re: #77 Ojoe

And if you want to talk about speeches...ha!

Bush is STILL catching hell for saying that he wanted obama dead or alive...that you are either with us or against us...and there was another quote he used that BOTH the congress and MSM have tarred and feathered him. The guy can't win. He's demonized no matter what he does.

So I hold congress and the msm's feet to the fire...someone give me the coals.

87 Silhouette  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:44:53pm

Clearly, they're just talking about you men.

They stand in front of other people, in toilets at airports and other public places. They do not care about covering their private parts.

So us gals aren't beasts at all. Neener neener neener.

88 Highrise  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:45:01pm

re: #86 Highrise


oops not obama..haha what a freudian slip.

Meant osama of course. /laughs

89 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:45:27pm

re: #82 zmdavid

The 70 rules for going to the bathroom is impressive.

90 Desert Dog  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:45:37pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

I would rather wear jet black undies and be a "beast", than practice BESTIALITY like that wanker probably does on the lonely cold nights in the desert when the moon is full and that special camel or goat give you "the look"

91 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:45:40pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

He's a stripe/skidmark inspector, first-class

92 m  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:45:58pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

We are a nation that has long known the meaning of cleanliness, what to do when nature calls, and what the rules of hygiene are.

Pretty proud of potty training isn't he? lol

93 pat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:46:39pm

re: #75 cbinflux

Nah, maybe the golf course. But as I said the really good golf course sand is from Japan. If we imported sand it would be from the Philippines. Much cheaper. By the way, another claiming credit for our beaches is Manhattan Beach Ca. That was said to have come in the 20s. Again no shipping records nor silica. Now Australia also has a large series of beaches with calcium carbonate in the sand, but the sand is primarily silica. Very easy to identify under a microscope. As for Turtle Bay, that is a very healthy reef and a very healthy beach. No need for replenishment. Being a North face, the beach washes out in winter to some extent anyway.

94 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:48:39pm

re: #84 baconeatingkaffir

re: #79 Killgore Trout

Aaah Killgore, that explains why the bastages stole my GI brown underpants off the lines when I first came here as a GI back in the day!

I still have images of some Kurdish macho-man trying to hit on a woman with his sexy amerikali asker underwear. What kind of sick twisted deranged person steals second hand skivvies?

95 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:49:24pm

re: #93 pat
At that time, TB claimed they were imported beaches from Oz.

Marketing..?

96 goodbye_natalie  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:49:28pm
At the last minute Rumsfeld called off the raid. "Believe me, if this had been easy and there were certainty, we'd have done this," says the former Rumsfeld adviser. "There just wasn't certainty."

** pitiful **

We will never have absolute certainty. Ever. And I hold those holding our military to such stupid standards as the ones getting both our military and more innocent civilians killed.

Let the frickin' military run the war and this would be over with much quicker.

97 Egfrow  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:49:57pm

From Pat Dollard, "These Yanks Really Want to Win"

98 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:51:34pm

re: #96 goodbye_natalie

At the last minute Rumsfeld called off the raid. "Believe me, if this had been easy and there were certainty, we'd have done this," says the former Rumsfeld adviser. "There just wasn't certainty."

** pitiful **

We will never have absolute certainty. Ever. And I hold those holding our military to such stupid standards as the ones getting both our military and more innocent civilians killed.

Let the frickin' military run the war and this would be over with much quicker.

Wasn't Rummy one of "Macnamara's whizz kids" during vietnam? Nothing like putting effiency in its place.

99 Racer X  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:51:45pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

Colored Undies are for Kuffrs...
Saudi Cleric Muhammad Al-Munajid: Western "Beasts" Use Colored Underwear to Conceal Their Filth (MEMRI)


We have counted almost 70 rules about how to urinate and defecate. In contrast, how do those beasts in the West answer the call of nature? They stand in front of other people, in toilets at airports and other public places. They do not care about covering their private parts. Even their underwear is colored and not white, so it can conceal all that filth. We are a nation that has long known the meaning of cleanliness, what to do when nature calls, and what the rules of hygiene are. The others, to this day, live like beasts.

Oh man that is too funny.

So, squatting over a hole in the ground to take a shit, splattering shit on your sandals (hence the "sandals off inside the house rule"), wiping your ass with your "stinky" hand, and no soap and water to wash up afterwards is better than a Western style facility with toilet paper and a sink?

100 Ojoe  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:52:29pm

re: #80 Highrise

Of course they bear responsibility. But on the other hand the executive branch should prosecute the NYT tiimes when it compromises security, etc.

And bush misdirects all when he says"Islam is a religion of peace".

Later we might have a real leader.

101 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:52:29pm

re: #99 Racer X

I don't recall seeing many Fraudi's wearing undies. I thought they just wore the long robe thingies?

102 newsjunkie_ky  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:52:43pm

re: #8 redshirt

Where's Mitch Rapp when you need him?


I've been enjoying those books.

103 easy  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:52:56pm

re: #92 m

re: #79 Killgore Trout

We are a nation that has long known the meaning of cleanliness, what to do when nature calls, and what the rules of hygiene are.

Pretty proud of potty training isn't he? lol

If you got it flaunt it...well, maybe not.

104 FriarsTale  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:57:08pm

OT
has anyone noticed the Wikipedia entry for Scott Thomas Beauchamp?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

it's kinda funny, so you folks prob have noticed, and posted about it
sorry if it's been posted b4

105 datadude  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:57:27pm

re: #7 baconeatingkaffir

Roger that! (from personal experience...sounds like
you experienced the same)

106 sandspur  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:58:26pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

Colored Undies are for Kuffrs...
Saudi Cleric Muhammad Al-Munajid: Western "Beasts" Use Colored Underwear to Conceal Their Filth (MEMRI)


We have counted almost 70 rules about how to urinate and defecate. In contrast, how do those beasts in the West answer the call of nature? They stand in front of other people, in toilets at airports and other public places. They do not care about covering their private parts. Even their underwear is colored and not white, so it can conceal all that filth. We are a nation that has long known the meaning of cleanliness, what to do when nature calls, and what the rules of hygiene are. The others, to this day, live like beasts.

Yeah, I buy my family's underwear with pre-printed skid marks. LOL

107 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:58:43pm

re: #105 datadude

Yeah. It's one of the reasons I wanted to get out. Things really changed in the early '90s. Gotta love the Clinton Regime and the lifers who will throw troops in front of a bus to get that next promotion.

108 6pat6  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:59:18pm

re: #55 screaming_eagle

AMEN!

109 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 12:59:45pm

Most imported golf course sand in Hawaii has come from Australia and China.
[Link: www.islandnet.com...]

[Link: www.signonsandiego.com...]

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

No whites..?
[Link: www.gly.uga.edu...]

Sand from elsewhere is actually cheaper than homegrown...

110 m  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:00:12pm

re: #103 easy

The first time my son was just as proud! He made me go get his dad off the lawnmower and come inside to see! He was two, but still. :)

111 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:01:12pm

re: #104 FriarsTale
PROTECTED!

112 Joel  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:01:25pm

OT- I saw the Pakistan Independence Day Parade here in NYC a few hour's ago. I was looking at the Pakistani teenagers who were present and they all looked like Islamofascist thugs. Some were wearing green headbands (like Hamas) which said "I Love Pakistan" and I thought to myself "great, why not move there?" I wonder how many in the crowd support Bin Laden and I think I know the answer "most of them."

113 meMarc  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:01:43pm

Wikipedia Unmasked: A new Web site reveals the sneak attacks and ego-fluffing of your friends and co-workers.

A Dreamworks IP gives Seth Rogen an adopted Laotian child named Pingpong Applesauce Rogen.

A Greenpeace IP sniped at Ted Nugent (the Nuge is a prominent pro-hunting spokesman) by claiming that he once had a 9-year-old Hawaiian girlfriend.

114 pat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:03:14pm

re: #95 cbinflux

I don't know, but I can check on that specific beach, and maybe will this afternoon if I am bored. As I said, we take our beaches seriously. Hawaiians were always watermen. Speaking of cleanliness, as Kilgore is, Hawaiians bathed 2 or 3 times a day as well as swam recreationally. Something the Hawaiian taught the missionaries. Our shoreline is precious and we put real science into it.

115 beddgelert  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:03:42pm

70 rules for cleanliness, hmmm and only 1 rule for murdering. Wiping your ass and penis 70 times reminds me of their 70 virgins, yet has anyone determined if those virgins were male or female?

116 datadude  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:04:19pm

re: #101 baconeatingkaffir

I remember being in a 'shawarma shop' over there
and, forgetting my 'manners', I had my sandwich in
my left hand and my can of soda in my right (just for
a brief few seconds) and when I looked up, all these
saudi kids were looking at me like I was the embodied
satan himself. My buddy pointed out my 'mea culpa', so
I shook my head, put the drink down and put the shawarma
in the 'appropriate' hand. Never learned how to say "My
bad, dude" in arabic. heh.

117 sandspur  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:04:21pm

re: #102 newsjunkie_ky

re: #8 redshirt

Where's Mitch Rapp when you need him?


I've been enjoying those books.

I do believe Mitch Rapp is a lizard. I'm pretty sure I've seen that nic here!

118 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:04:32pm
Rice blames risk aversion in career officers, whose promotions require spotless (“zero defect”) records—no mistakes, no bad luck, no “flaps.” The cautious mind-set changed for a time after 9/11, but quickly settled back in.

Thank you, bill clinton!

119 Highrise  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:05:19pm

re: #100 Ojoe

re: #80 Highrise

Of course they bear responsibility. But on the other hand the executive branch should prosecute the NYT tiimes when it compromises security, etc.

And bush misdirects all when he says"Islam is a religion of peace".

Later we might have a real leader.

Can't disagree there with you. Newt Gingrich said...with what the left is arguing about Bush...you'd think they would agree that they need someone TOUGHER than Bush...which we do...but they don't.

I understand the tight rope he walks as leader and not wanting to piss off all the muslims that aren't freakish like the radical islamists...but the religion of peace comment definitely was a COLOSSAL mistake.

The other day..I swear I wanted to leap through my tv when I was listening to a fox interviewer (she is the one with the bettyboop slick back black really short hair) say to her guest...And here the administration told us that this would be a BLOODLESS and QUICKLY over war..was that a fair assessment?

I was like..HOLY..wth..that was never said out of our commander in chief. I listened intently to him for awhile because I had watched the 9/11 footage as it was happening that morning...and was wanting justice.

120 Joel  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:05:25pm

re: #116 datadude

I hear that one is supposed to wipe ones butt with the left hand in Islamic countries.

121 tradewind  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:06:32pm

Usama bin Laden the dust long time now.
He's dead, Jim.

122 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:07:18pm

re: #116 datadude

I'd forgotten about that one. One time we were downtown at the souk and these saudis were praying and my buddy walked right in front of them. It was too scary to be funny. I also remember having our transportatin on the highway stop for the prayer call and the driver getting out on the highway and doing his forehead stretches or whatever.

123 newsjunkie_ky  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:08:00pm

re: #117 sandspur

re: #102 newsjunkie_ky


re: #8 redshirt

Where's Mitch Rapp when you need him?

I've been enjoying those books.

I do believe Mitch Rapp is a lizard. I'm pretty sure I've seen that nic here!


Really? Someone has that for their Lizard name?
Mitch Rapp novel

124 Beagle  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:08:39pm

It would be nice to bag Bin Laden, but I don't think the global jihad will be affected very much. It's hard to believe he's alive with no video since 2004.

125 SaneInMN  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:10:18pm

Here, Newsweek laments ridiculous ROE only because it involves Afghanistan, and such a story can be used to paint the current administration in a poor light. However, Newsweek would be the first to point out the "treachery and barbarism" of our troops if civilian casualties resulted from a change in such ROE. And btw, the story concerning the mullah omar occurred in 2002. Why is it just being reported now, some 5 years after the fact? Probably, they were too busy supplying the likes of dennis kucinich with stories about our troops indiscriminately killing and maiming innocent Afghanis at the time...or how we were treating prisoners at Gitmo, or how President Bush was acting to rashly, etc.

126 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:10:19pm

re: #114 pat

No offense... I studied it whilst studying Ti in metallurgy/medicine.

127 datadude  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:10:33pm

re: #120 Joel

That's what we were briefed. I just thought
you weren't supposed to touch any of them with
your left hand. High insult and whatnot. I
learned pretty quick how wrong I was.

God bless America...land of Charmin and quilted
Northern!

128 BenZacharia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:11:31pm

UBL will be hiding in my barn sept 7-9, come help us hunt him down.

129 sandspur  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:11:35pm

re: #123 newsjunkie_ky

A new book is coming out Oct 30. Protect and Defend set in Iran

130 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:11:39pm

re: #45 sandspur

In Marcus Lutrell's new bestseller "Lone Survivor", he and his SEAL team were dispatched to the Afghanistan Hindu Kush to capture or kill a high value target. While they were in country, before they had aquired the target, some herders discovered them. The choice was to kill the herders so they couldn't give them away to the Taliban, and in so doing risk prosecution for murder of "innocent civilians" upon their return from the mission. They chose not to kill the herders, who promptly gave them away to the Taliban and in the ensuing nutroll, three of the four man SEAL team were killed, as will as a helicopter full of SEALS who went to attempt a rescue of the team.
That is the effect our risk averse, PC Pentagon has in the field.

Um... I'm totally against PC nonsense, but that's not what happened here. American forces don't purposefully kill innocent civilians. Full stop. It's the difference between us and them.

131 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:11:43pm

So, we continue to trust Bush at our own peril, yes? After all, Bush is the guy that simultaneously insists on a struggle for the "American Way of LIfe" while leaving America's ports and borders wide open, arguing for a massive influx of others. He says radicals threaten us, but has done nothing to secure the border. Many Illegals participated in 9/11 - yet he was on the verge of granting amnesty to all those that overstayed their visas or entered the country illegally. Also, I NEVER saw Bill Clinton holding hands with that Saudi prick. But Bush did. These things and others aren't non-sensical and antithetical even to an eight year old? Maybe one day records will show that Charles was either an honest critic of the administration or an unknowing shill for the administration. LGF records will prove an impressive means of exposing good, doubting people registered to this site that had eventually concluded that Bush was an idiot-disaster. Bush is a "hot-mess" as my African-American co-workers refer to him. That's to say Bush is a fresh pile of doo-doo or a steaming pile of shite...in the parlance of our times.

132 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:11:45pm

re: #114 pat

BTW, it would make more sense there, because it is also a golf course. IIRC, it came from ~ Perth.

133 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:11:50pm

re: #127 datadude

I'm still thinking of the "bombsite" toilets and the nice little watering cans they had in the turlets . Geez, I never did get used to those

134 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:12:27pm

re: #128 BenZacharia

UBL will be hiding in my barn sept 7-9, come help us hunt him down.

I just KNEW that you Jooos were hiding him!

135 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:13:11pm

re: #132 cbinflux

re: #114 pat

BTW, it would make more sense there, because it is also a golf course. IIRC, it came from ~ Perth.

I"m thinking of Abu Dhabi UAE where they were flying in sod for the golf courses right in the middle of Gulf War I. Gotta give credits to Arabs who would rather play golf/go shopping/ get drunk/ find whores instead of blowing stuff up.

136 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:13:16pm
In 2005, the CIA gave President Bush a secret slide show on the hunt for bin Laden. The president was taken aback by the small number of CIA case officers posted to Afghanistan and Pakistan. "Is that all there are?" the president asked, according to a former intelligence official, who declined to be identified discussing White House meetings. The CIA had already embarked on a "surge" of sorts, and doubled the number of officers in the field. But many were inexperienced and raw recruits, and they produced little improvement in "actionable" intelligence.

Thanks, bill clinton!

137 Joel  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:14:15pm

re: #127 datadude

They are such bigoted and primitive bastards. Dennis Miller said that the Saudis are the adult version of the imaginary friend you had as a child.

138 datadude  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:14:43pm

re: #122 baconeatingkaffir

Had a similar experience down town during prayer time.
Thankfully was able to duck into a hotel before the
prayer police got within caning distance. Different world,
man. Again, God bless the USA.

139 6pat6  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:15:13pm

Seems like prayer time always happened while we were roaming around in the souks in Riyadh. The muttawa would look at the group of us, usually three to eight scary-looking American kaffirs, and mumble and shake their sticks and go off to harass some poor muslim that was four seconds late to prayer call.

I do not miss that shithole called Saudi Arabia one little bit.

140 BenZacharia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:15:23pm

re: #134 cbinflux

Thas right, and 15 other lizards and a celebrity guest will be here to blow holes in his head. Wanna come?

141 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:15:41pm
CIA officials at Langley were anxiously watching their flank. At the Pentagon, Rumsfeld, vexed by the CIA's inability to provide actionable intel, had been pushing to get Special Forces into clandestine operations and gathering of human intelligence (HUMINT). Under an "execute order" approved by President Bush in July 2005, the Pentagon identified 350 Qaeda targets globally, including senior leaders, recruiters, financiers and couriers, according to a high-ranking Defense official who, like others quoted anonymously in this story, did not wish to be identified revealing such matters. The CIA naturally resisted this invasion of its turf.

Maybe the CIA ought to start doing it's job instead of covering it's *ss. And maybe the powers that be can untie these peoples hands so we can win this d*mn war.

142 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:16:10pm

re: #138 datadude

I mentioned here awhile back we had 2-3 females beat the shiite out of one of their religious police. They got evacuated to Germany immediately. Dunno if they got any disciplinary action. I'll bet that guy has a strong fear/respect of the western female from now on!

143 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:16:11pm

re: #118 Sharmuta

Rice blames risk aversion in career officers, whose promotions require spotless (“zero defect”) records—no mistakes, no bad luck, no “flaps.” The cautious mind-set changed for a time after 9/11, but quickly settled back in.

Thank you, bill clinton!

Tampax has launched the Slick Willie (TM), "No string, just a cigar ring" (TM)

It's gonna be HUGE! Bigger than Pearl!

144 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:17:01pm
145 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:17:06pm

re: #135 baconeatingkaffir

Props who can let Americans die for them while they play.

Grrr!

146 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:17:47pm

re: #145 cbinflux

re: #135 baconeatingkaffir

Props to people who can let Americans die for them while they play.

Grrr!

147 GregInSeattle  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:17:52pm

OT

Obama interviewed on Jon Stewart

Wants to bring the troops home, so they'll be safe and stop causin' "A big mess"

148 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:17:53pm

re: #145 cbinflux

We used to joke that they were gonna change the Saudi National Anthem to "Onward Christian Soldiers" .

149 yenta-fada  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:18:22pm

A really good book to read about the hollowing out of all CIA intelligence on the ground in crucial areas is "See No Evil: The True Story of a Ground Soldier in the CIA's War on Terrorism" by Robert Baer. It is gripping and certainly has the feel of firsthand information. The CIA vetted it, but allowed publication, despite the unflattering picture Baer paints. The same author wrote "Sleeping with the Enemy" which Hollywood confused and distorted by basing "Syriana" on Baer's work. If you are a fan, "The Spy who came in from the Cold" by LeCarre certainly presages the constant theme of why intelligence services fail in the West.

150 realwest  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:18:25pm

re: #140 BenZacharia Ooh, ooh can I come, PLEASE?!

151 SaneInMN  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:18:40pm

131...

"Also, I NEVER saw Bill Clinton holding hands with that Saudi prick."

No, he only held hands with arafat, and his Secretary of State drank champagne with little kim.

Oh, and your buddy Billy also didn't do a damn thing about the borders or our ports, despite the attack on the WTC in 1993, the attack of the USS Cole, and the near miss just prior to 2000 (the millennium plot). And, according to the latest NIE report, he never lifted a finger to get OBL.

152 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:19:33pm

re: #151 SaneInMN

You forgot that he invited Gerry Adams the former IRA thug to the whitehouse too. What a tool! We're just dealing with the legacy that Jimmah Khadir and Slick Willie left behind.

153 datadude  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:19:34pm

re: #142 baconeatingkaffir
HAAA! Good on her! (though we'd never recommend trying
it).

154 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:19:52pm

re: #148 baconeatingkaffir

re: #145 cbinflux

We used to joke that they were gonna change the Saudi National Anthem to "Onward Christian Soldiers" .

Onward Christian Soldiers
Dying daily for us
Hold high the Saudi banner
But shh! while I make this putt

155 BenZacharia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:20:28pm

re: #150 realwest

Absof*ckinglutely, just got a reservation from ratherdashing. Just catch a SkyBus™ flight to CMH we'll get ya here from the airport.

156 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:21:18pm

re: #154 cbinflux

I have to regularly shush my daughter here when they play the prayer call. Gotta love Turkey! The last time she was "Everyone wave your hands in the aaaiiirrr llikkkeee youuu just don't caaare!" ahahaha.

157 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:21:22pm

Rather Dashing, On the Rocks

158 squarepeg  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:21:35pm

Is the SecDef responsible for nonsense like this (assuming it's true)?

That is, could SecDef McCain put an end to it?

159 docremulac  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:21:35pm

#83 rabidsquirrel 8/26/2007 12:42:29 pm reply quote report

re: #60 docremulac

The top brass would correct the spelling on a time sensitive operations request? Is this a friggin Monty Python skit?

Here's their 5 W form (Who,what, when, why, where)

Who - The worldwide army of islamofascists.
What - Taking over the world.
When - Right f*cking now!
Why - Because we're too weak and stupid to stop them.
Where - Everywhere.

"Unfortunately, I don't doubt that one bit. I've had CONOPs and other coordination packages returned from an AF MAJCOM Directorate commander because the margins weren't to the Executive Officer's liking."


That's beyond depressing.

161 6pat6  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:21:50pm

We had a girl get fondled by a muttawa about 15 years or so ago in Riyadh. She slapped the dogshit out of him! Just then, a cab drove up and she, and the three guys she was in town with, jumped in and hauled ass back to where we were staying.

162 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:21:54pm

re: #156 baconeatingkaffir
OMA!

163 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:22:17pm

This is OT but when my archbishop was informed that much of Greece was in flames, probably from arsonists, his response was, "Oh, it must be the Muslims."

164 6pat6  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:22:57pm

re: #156 baconeatingkaffir

Funny! Kids have a knack for the truth!

165 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:23:04pm

re: #163 David IV of Georgia

It's bizarre how turks think. I had one of my students tell me he's happy and another one tell me that it's Allah's will. Sheesh, why can't they just look at internet porn like the rest of the kids their age?

166 BenZacharia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:24:00pm

TTFN™, found the part I was looking for online.

167 TimeQuake  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:24:08pm

re: #155 BenZacharia

Just out of curiosity...at these LGF get togethers, after introductions, do you call each other by nic or real name...both?

168 Wendya  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:24:15pm

re: #11 Lazarus

>You've got a fuck of a lot of nerve, calling us backstabbers. You harbor terrorist enemies of America and the civilized world. You designate whole regions of your country as rebel areas too volatile to hold under your law, and which allow terrorist gangs to run rampant. Some friend you are. International agreements aren't suicide pacts. Maybe if you create a culture worthy of friendship, you can expect us to keep our word.

Musharraf is correct.

We are famous for throwing friends and allies under the bus...and then backing over them again for good measure.

They are smart to view us with a great deal of suspicion.

169 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:24:45pm
170 datadude  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:24:46pm

re: #156 baconeatingkaffir
Lord! I don't envy you, bro! Not only over there,
but over there with kids, too? And female at that!?
I'll say a prayer for you and yours tonight, friend.

And thanks, BTW.

171 realwest  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:24:49pm

File under the more things change the more they stay the same.
In Vietnam, we had villages deemed "hostile" "friendly" and "unknown". If your patrol went past a "friendly" ville and you took fire - sometimes heavy fire from inside the "friendly ville" you were supposed to get on the radio and get permission to shoot back.
No lie.
Course, there were freqent radio problems!

172 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:25:04pm

re: #168 Wendya

Yes, but with friends like muschi (the nicknme and the german word both describe the guy to a T) who really needs enemies? Fakistan?! Fraudi Arabia?

173 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:25:19pm

re: #156 baconeatingkaffir

Hokey-Pokey would be fun..

Get your arses in the air
and wiggle all about
Do the carpet burn
on your foreheads and yer snouts
That's wot it's all about*

*aboot for you Canadians.
/

174 BenZacharia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:25:33pm

re: #167 TimeQuake

Personal preference, I generally call each by their first or last name, Iron Fist is a law unto himself.

175 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:26:15pm

re: #170 datadude

I'm not female. My wife and stepdaughters are Turkish. They're just too americanized for the religion of piss. I live in North Turkey which is ALOT more westernized and modern than southeast.. I spent 20 months at incirlik and have no desire to ever go east again.

176 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:26:23pm

#151 & #152

I'm not some Clinton apologist - that PIECE OF SHIT!

But I'm also not willing to be some f*ckin' robot for "W-the Sequel" who, after 9/11, has succeeded in mostly being the face of Islamic activism in the west. Bush jr. is mostly responsible for this absurd "Relgion of Piece" bullshit we're confronted with today. When has Islam EVER had such a political presence in the thriving West? Yet, somehow, after 9/11, Islam, which should have quickly become a pariah-religion after the murder of 3,000 plus American people has more of a foothold in western politics, throughout the western hemisphere, then it ever did before.

177 realwest  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:26:42pm

re: #155 BenZachariaUm, slight problem there with the flying part - it's really hard to get a pair of S&W .40 caliber past them damn security barriers - can I assume the armory will be well stocked?!

178 sandspur  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:27:28pm

re: #130 Cognito

I know our troops don't kill civilians.
But the line gets a bit blurred when the enemy wears civilian clothes and hides, operates, is protected and shelters among the civilian populace.
In the SEAL team's case, my opinion is that they would have been justified in killing the herders, who they had good reason to believe would aid the Taliban.

Just my .02

179 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:27:32pm

re: #174 BenZacharia
Zombie, too? Ever checker his/her kilts?

180 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:27:52pm

re: #173 cbinflux

re: #156 baconeatingkaffir

Hokey-Pokey would be fun..

Get your arses in the air
and wiggle all about
Do the carpet burn
on your foreheads and yer snouts
That's wot it's all about*

*aboot for you Canadians.
/

Yeah. I used to mess with my "religious" students a bit. I had a few who tried to convert me. I'd ask them stuff like "What if I break wind during prayer" or.. "If someone dies on the toilet.. what does the hadith say about that?"

181 NoSubmission  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:28:22pm

re: #169 buzzsawmonkey

re: #160 NoSubmission
"Anti-war" protesters and Islamists seem to share a love of masking themselves when they appear en masse.


Actually the guy covering his face is one of the counter demonstrators. Something I've never agreed with and never include in my photo essays.

182 BenZacharia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:28:44pm

re: #176 Eric Cartman's Conscience

What? The White House peees no taste like champagne? And zee farts, zay no smell like strawberries? And Condi she not as pretty as Haley Barry?
Welcome to the club.

183 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:28:55pm

re: #131 Eric Cartman's Conscience

So, we continue to trust Bush at our own peril, yes?

He's the President until January 2009, so- do we have a choice? I mean- other than joining the impeach Bush crowd?

184 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:29:06pm

re: #177 realwest

I haven't found taking my guns that much of a problem. Often very funny, in fact.

185 ChenZhen  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:29:08pm

I read the whole thing earlier today. Much of what's in there has been isn't new, but I think Newsweek did a very good job at putting this together very comprehensively. My takeaway? The invasion of Iraq was a unnecessary and counterproductive blunder. But I already knew that.

186 Luigi  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:29:37pm

From inside the article...

"We have very strong indicators that Al Qaeda is planning to attack the West and is likely to attack, and we are pretty sure about that," says retired Vice Adm. John Redd, chief of the National Counterterrorism Center, which coordinates all U.S. intelligence in the so-called Global War on Terror (GWOT). Hank Crumpton, who ran the CIA's early hunt for bin Laden in 2001-02 as deputy chief of the agency's counterterrorism center and recently retired as the State Department's coordinator of counterterrorism, says, "It's bad; it's going to come."

187 squarepeg  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:29:43pm

re: #158 squarepeg

Is the SecDef responsible for nonsense like this (assuming it's true)?

That is, could SecDef McCain put an end to it?

Never mind; I just found some Rumsfeld-bashing above that answers it.

188 WrathofG-d  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:29:51pm

OT:

Someone is doing something for the people of Darfur. Nope, not the UN, not the U.S., not the Arab World, not the EU.

189 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:30:29pm

#185 ChenZhen

your "takewaway" and a glass full of piss amount to nothing.

go sit down, shutup, and let the grownups talk.

190 beddgelert  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:30:32pm

The war footing was in place before Bush was elected, his ticket Bush-Cheny says it all. When his cabinet was chosen America's fate was sealed. The problem however, to execute the post invasions, was not from the military side of the equation but the civilian side, namely the State Department. Colin Powell was not and could never have been a good statesman, he took orders rather than define them, he had no experience beyond his many roles in the military. A Secretary of State's job resume should read "Deal Maker" not "Order Taker". The lethal combination of Cheney and Powell worked well when a command structure was in place, Rumsfeld recognized the gap otherwise and decided to play mediator and problem solver for two men who no longer would talk to each other. Bush was out of his league in these matters, he is no Reagan in this regard but more like Nixon, unable to make defined clear choices with conviction until pushed into a corner, he balanced too much on others experience.

This said, regardless of who is in office and the choices they make, always the troops must come first. I have no doubt that if Gore or Kerry had been elected our fate would have been a million times worse. After a couple more 9/11's Gore would have decided nothing. As an American I support Bush's choice to enter evils den, to exacerbate what in my mind was brewing for a long time. To confront the extremists now rather than later no matter what the cost, a cost that would divide the country and the world for now. Petraus sees victory, combined victory for the Pentagon and State Department, his ability to recognize the mess and how to clean it up surpasses all former Generals of our Military and puts him on a path to one day be considered for the top post.

Regards,

Beddgelert

191 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:30:55pm

The strong smell of mole..?

192 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:31:14pm
193 BenZacharia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:31:42pm

re: #177 realwest

I may have a coupla pieces that I could dig up. Have you any expereince with the L.A.W. or an M2?

194 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:32:34pm

Seriously, where's the big hassle of taking guns on airplanes?

195 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:32:46pm

re: #192 Iron Fist

“My great concern is that one day the United States is going to desert me. They always desert their friends.”

The next time some idiot says our loss in Vietnam didn't cost the US anything, here is a quote to throw back in their face. That isn't about the US that won WWII. Musharraf's fears come from the disgraceful retreat and abandonment of Vietnam and the post-Vietnam (think Shah of Iran; I guarantee that Musharraf is) era.

Oh, and Barrack Hussein Obama talking about invading Pakistan couldn't help.

Yeah. There are also some Laotians and Iraqi marsh Arabs who would have something to add, there.

196 Highrise  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:32:49pm

re: #131 Eric Cartman's Conscience


So, we continue to trust Bush at our own peril, yes?

And your suggestion would be to...? Impeach? Ask the military to override him?


He says radicals threaten us, but has done nothing to secure the border.

While certainly he has ticked me off on the border subject, I'm not sure we can say he has done absolutely nothing...that is a broad statement to make. Congress bares the responsibility big time for wanting open borders.


Also, I NEVER saw Bill Clinton holding hands with that Saudi prick. But Bush did.

Clinton wasn't close to the saudis? I find that hard to believe.

Maybe one day records will show that Charles was either an honest critic of the administration or an unknowing shill for the administration.

Given this piece and the hitchens piece yesterday, how can the latter even make it into the comparison? Wouldn't a shill not even post those two?

Bush is a "hot-mess" as my African-American co-workers refer to him.

I find it really interesting you interjected race into that comment.

197 solomonpanting  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:33:09pm

re: #160 NoSubmission


A bit down the list of photos

If the Koreans don't want US troops in their country, perhaps they should redeploy to Iraq for The Surge 2 and leave the ingrates to fend for themselves.

198 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:33:24pm

#185 ChenZhen

given my druthers, I'll take the LAW. There's no one on this blog capable of humpin' an M2 50 Cal.

The ammo alone is a bitch to hump.

199 BenZacharia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:33:40pm

ChenZen, come to the BBQ, bring an Osama mask.

200 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:34:11pm

OT: I guess...

Iran Vows to Use 'Smart' Bomb on Enemies


Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:57 AM

TEHRAN, Iran -- Iran vowed Sunday to use a new 2,000-pound "smart" bomb against its enemies and unveiled mass production of the new weapon, state television reported.

The government first announced development of the long-range guided bomb Thursday, saying it could be deployed by the country's aging U.S.-made F-4 and F-5 fighter jets.

"We will use these (bombs) against our enemies when the time comes," Defense Minister Mostafa Mohammad Najjar said on state television Sunday.


So can we obliterate them now? Please mom, can we...can we?

201 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:34:54pm

re: #192 Iron Fist

I'm trying to think if their are any friends we've deserted before Vietnam.

202 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:35:35pm

re: #189 BulgarWheat

Typing away at his Ghost Town gazette right now, "Why, I told Charles it was much ado about nothing, and explained the finer points of the old news to the yokels over ther at LGF. Really, I mean, someone has to help them."

//Damned shame it will go unnoticed.\

203 BenZacharia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:35:36pm

re: #192 Iron Fist

And more recently.
The shits in the south felt a little betrayed in '93 when GHWB says, "Rise up, we got your 6." And then takes a powder.

204 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:36:41pm

re: #185 ChenZhen

And just think- none of this may have been necessary had bill clinton done his job back in the 90s.

205 rightymouse  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:36:46pm

re: #195 Cognito



Yeah. There are also some Laotians and Iraqi marsh Arabs who would have something to add, there.

A few million Cambodians too if they were alive to do so.

206 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:36:49pm

re: #198 BulgarWheat

?

207 BenZacharia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:37:20pm

re: #201 Sharmuta

Change Ki Sheck (sic) when he was still on the mainland.

208 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:37:42pm
209 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:37:44pm

re: #201 Sharmuta

Uh, the Bay of Pigs come to mind!

210 Highrise  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:38:07pm

re: #201 Sharmuta

re: #192 Iron Fist

I'm trying to think if their are any friends we've deserted before Vietnam.

I still want to know why they are being secretive to who heard that comment. Until then, I'm not certain it was said. Why do we allow the msm to have all these hidden people that can't say their name? I just call bs. It's a he said he said thing at this point...can't even put his name to it, yet it's published as fact that it was said..wimp.

211 realwest  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:38:11pm

re: #184 cbinflux Hand guns?! Um, y'all might want to e-mail me for that one!

212 galloping granny  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:38:43pm

re: #201 Sharmuta

re: #192 Iron Fist

I'm trying to think if their are any friends we've deserted before Vietnam.

Oh sure. Among them Grandfather Ho. And Castro.

213 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:39:06pm

WHo were our Presidents when we were deserting these friends?

214 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:39:07pm

#206 cbinflux

I FUBARD a cut and paste. BenZ was talking about a LAW or an M2.

My bad.

215 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:39:13pm

#196 Highrise

"hot mess" might be something needing clarification. Since many people I work with and genuinely love and care about happen to be black and bring certain rhetorical flourishes to the table, I thought the clarification pertinent. I don't think too many folks in the highrise use the phrase "hot mess". :)

216 donna quixote  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:39:35pm

Who decides the 'Rules of Engagement'? Has the make up of the decision-makers changed since WWII?

217 BenZacharia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:40:24pm

re: #216 donna quixote

Ultimately the CinC signs off on them.

218 RichatUF  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:40:26pm

#131 ECC

Many Illegals participated in 9/11 - yet he was on the verge of granting amnesty to all those that overstayed their visas or entered the country illegally...

Some we visa overstays, but all of them entered lawfully.

Also, I read the article [they brought in all the heavy hitters] and the don't really understand the point. He opens with a Taliban/aQ spokesman, sprinked with anonymous sources [some retired], and some people named that may have, could have. I doubt that OBL or AZ are even in that region (especially if they are planning a US strike). He then goes and lists all the bureaucratic failures and Tora Bora and going Hollywood and blames the whole thing on Rumsfeld and the Iraq War (ie resources in Iraq are "taking away from the hunt"). Really the article is more of the Clinton "law enforcement" approach using military personnel to perform arrests and searches.

It isn't worth the read. And since I've read it, and I'm a believer in the Newsweek Contrarian Indicator, I'm going to Tradesports to put down $25 on the OBL neutralization Sept 07 contract. I've looked and don't see one of AZ but I'd put money on that one too.

219 Luigi  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:40:43pm

Serious violent disruption on airplane. Probably just a nutcase..

Psycho tries to open jet door in air
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

Quick-thinking passengers and crew members managed to subdue a deranged man who tried to open an airplane door thousands of feet in the air on a flight to New York yesterday.

Vigil said the crazed man was bouncing up and down in his seat for most of the flight, clutching several boarding passes and kicking the row in front of him.

"He was playing with his hair, picking at his face and counting his fingers," said Vigil, 45, of Estes Park, Colo. "I thought he was anxious to get home or something."

Vigil said his rowmate left his seat to go to the bathroom in the front of the plane and briefly tried to open the cockpit door. The man, whom he described as Asian and about 20, then returned to his seat, only to get up 15 seconds later, go to the back of the plane and attempt to open the cabin door.

220 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:40:56pm

re: #211 realwest

Hand guns and rifles, cars and planes. There are just some simple rules and formalities.

Airlines are funny b/c the counter folk are often too squemish to actually check the guns and ammo. 2/3 of the time, it's seems to be the Honor System.

221 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:41:39pm

re: #213 Sharmuta


Darn, that's a Hard One! //

222 jcm  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:41:48pm

Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That mothers shall but smile when they behold
Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.

223 datadude  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:42:12pm

re: #175 baconeatingkaffir

Wasn't saying you were female. I meant your kid(s).
It's good that where you are is more westernized.
I'm picturing the scenes I saw in SA, where I had
friends who were contractors supporting Saudi
(American built) fighter jets. They dreaded taking
their kids (ESPECIALLY the girls) down town, and
they rarely did.

Good to hear that it's not the same where you are.

224 ChenZhen  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:42:34pm

re: #189 BulgarWheat

Yea, 'cause "grownups" talk like that.

225 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:42:35pm

re: #219 Luigi

Why wasn't he restrained early on!?

226 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:43:40pm

re: #224 ChenZhen

re: #189 BulgarWheat

Yea, 'cause "grownups" talk like that.

Yeah, they say things to your face.

227 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:43:49pm

#224 ChenZhen

Yes, they do.

Go sit at the little table.

228 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:44:07pm

How can a man say we are in a struggle for our way or life, yet leave the borders wide open?

No one has attempted to reconcile the notion of the "American Way of Life" with the Open Border nonsense that Bush, Chertoff, and others are pushing. That's the Crux of my frustration with President Bush.

229 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:44:17pm
230 squarepeg  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:44:18pm

re: #213 Sharmuta

WHo were our Presidents when we were deserting these friends?

FDR "deserted" Chiang Kai-shek, if you buy that we deserted him on the mainland.

231 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:45:19pm

re: #223 datadude

Turkey is cool in that aspect. It's westernized to the point I can wear shorts as long as I'm not at work. Still, the new AKP party government is trying to change all that. Come back Ataturk and bring your gun!

232 datadude  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:45:23pm

re: #228 Eric Cartman's Conscience

ROWRY!

233 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:45:43pm

#230 squarepeg


FDR was a socialist in every sense of the word. He would no sooner raise a pinky than upset his socialist bretheren.

234 WrathofG-d  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:46:37pm

re: #160 NoSubmission

Can one have "sleaves" (full arm tatoos) and be in the Military these days?

The guy in the back of this pic has a shirt that reads Iraq Veterens against the war but also has full "sleaves". What goes on here?

235 galloping granny  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:46:46pm

re: #213 Sharmuta

WHo were our Presidents when we were deserting these friends?

Let's see - Castro turned from friend to enemy under Eisenhower. Uncle Ho was our friend (as was to Chiang Kai Shek) during WWII but we were at war with Ho by 51 or so. Was it Nixon who turned over the Chinese UN seat to China instead of Taiwan?

Every time we switch from Democrat to Republican or vice versa we seem to abandon all the previous guy's commitments.

236 datadude  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:46:54pm

re: #231 baconeatingkaffir

Copy that!

237 Shay4l  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:47:49pm

This is a hard thread to follow. Titled with bin Laden, excerpt is about Omar, careens into underwear skidmarks, and then oozes into People of the Left Hand and Slick Willie.

I love this place.

238 Highrise  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:48:10pm

I think people who say that the president is stupid really should take a look at this map. Take a look at Iran.

Yes, history will judge him on whether he's stupid..or brilliant. Too bad no crystal ball is to be had anywhere.

The man isn't perfect, I just think stupid is far reaching when looking at that map.

Popping the zit (iran) takes a few fingernails around the head...

just sayin'

239 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:48:21pm

OK- so what I'm getting is democrats have deserted our friends.

FDR, JFK, LBJ...

Except Bush 41 in Iraq, they're all dems.

240 galloping granny  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:48:58pm

re: #229 buzzsawmonkey

re: #216 donna quixote

Who decides the 'Rules of Engagement'?

According to Emily Post, if the wedding does not take place the woman is supposed to return the ring.

Unless the ring was given as the Christmas or birthday present, which overrides the "engagement" bit because it was a gift.

241 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:49:20pm

#234 WrathofG-d

That's a big "negative", and even the Navy has instituted some restrictions on tattoos.

There are no tattoos in the SpecOp community, as well as no "major" dental work. Scars have limitations also.

When folks are working in cognito, there aren't even dog-tags.

Plausible deniability.

242 datadude  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:49:56pm

re: #233 BulgarWheat

WHAT! I thought FDR saved our butts
out of the great depression! Are you sayin'
that I read some revisionists version of
history!? Surely you're not saying THAT,
are you (BWAA-ha-ha-ha-ha)...

243 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:50:11pm

re: #234 WrathofG-d

re: #160 NoSubmission

Can one have "sleaves" (full arm tatoos) and be in the Military these days?

The guy in the back of this pic has a shirt that reads Iraq Veterens against the war but also has full "sleaves". What goes on here?

Dunno but I'll ask my brother. He's an army recruiter these days. If I remember regs correctly, tats can't be visible in uniform.

244 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:50:20pm
245 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:50:21pm
246 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:50:38pm

re: #239 Sharmuta

OK- so what I'm getting is democrats have deserted our friends.

FDR, JFK, LBJ...

Except Bush 41 in Iraq, they're all dems.

It's not quite that tidy, I don't think. Some of the abandonments, so to speak, have spanned more than one administration. It's not something that we can pin on this party or that one, I think.

247 galloping granny  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:51:18pm

re: #239 Sharmuta

OK- so what I'm getting is democrats have deserted our friends.

FDR, JFK, LBJ...

Except Bush 41 in Iraq, they're all dems.

You're wrong there. It was a Republican president that gave away Taiwan's UN seat. FDR was dead before WWII ended - you have to blame Truman for some of the post war stuff and Eisenhower (Republican) for more of it.

248 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:51:58pm

#242 datadude

Yes, I'm saying that. FDR was a jimmy carter-esque president.

Hot Wheels unleashed socialism in America, and propped up the Soviets.

249 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:52:11pm

re: #247 galloping granny

Thanks.

250 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:52:24pm

re: #241 BulgarWheat

#234 WrathofG-d
...There are no tattoos in the SpecOp community, as well as no "major" dental work. Scars have limitations also.

Huh? That's not the case, as far as I've seen.

251 galloping granny  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:53:36pm

re: #245 buzzsawmonkey

re: #240 galloping granny

Yes, of course.

Now how do we apply that to military aid to Pakistan?

I've always thought we were damned fools to provide military aid to Pakistan. Or Saudi Arabia. How fast can you spell "jizyah" by some other name?

252 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:54:07pm

re: #246 Cognito

You know- I'd reply to you, but I'm fresh out of smelling salts.

253 democast  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:54:37pm

Help avert the gross error of the US Administration's strategy (and Israel's PM Olmert's complicity) to sacrifice the West's integrity to create a Jihadist state in East Jerusalem (capitol) (and ethnically-clean Judea/Samaria of Jewish people for Arab-only occupation). Condi Rice's State Dept's "Peace Conference" (a misguided attempt to enhance the West's image on the Arab street to ameliorate insurgency and jihadism) is being orchestrated now to take place in November.

Just as Israel's unilateral withdrawal from Gaza 2-years ago proved not to appease, but encourage Hamas, Hezbollah, & al Qaeda's mission to destroy Israel and the West. Help avert western concessions like this which only empower Islamism- and the tool of an Islamist enemy state interwoven around Israel will be a global encouragement impossible to undo.

Read a rare, lucid perpective from the brillliant Zionist pioneer who settled and leads Hebron, living his life at the frontline of the Jihad, attorney and former Israeli Knesset Parliamentarian Elyakim Haetzni.

Translated from Hebrew on DemoCast.Net

254 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:55:43pm

#250 Cognito

I'm sure things could have changed in 21 years...but...no major dental (can be identified by country) no major scars (same as last answer) and tattoos are an Article 15 and a trip to a leg unit.

Kind of hard to be SpecOps otherwise.

It's common sense. Whenever someone displays a Libre De Oppreso, Airborne tattoo, my Bullshit detector starts alarming loudly!

255 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:56:30pm

re: #252 Sharmuta

re: #246 Cognito

You know- I'd reply to you, but I'm fresh out of smelling salts.

Okay

256 galloping granny  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:56:44pm

re: #248 BulgarWheat

#242 datadude

Yes, I'm saying that. FDR was a jimmy carter-esque president.

Hot Wheels unleashed socialism in America, and propped up the Soviets.

Better go read a little more history. Socialism - and communism for that matter - were alive and well in the USA well before 1920. See the early trade union movements for starters. For that matter, a number of the early "builders" of the Soviet Union came from the US.

As far as propping up the Soviets during WWII goes, if the Soviet Union had not fought Hitler, most of Europe would be under German control today.

257 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:57:01pm

re: #254 BulgarWheat

A friend of mine was dq'ed from airborne school pending dental work but he scanned the medical documents into his computer and his airborne physical was mysteriously approved ! :0

258 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:57:32pm

All I can say is that AQ and the Taliban should be happy about our current ROE's. Were I in command ROE's would be as follows, paraphrasing the late President Ronald W. Reagan -

Rule 1. WE WIN

Rule 2. THEY LOOSE

Rule 3. When/If in doubt refer to Rules 1 & 2 above.

That Is All.

-S-

259 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:57:33pm

re: #254 BulgarWheat

#250 Cognito

I'm sure things could have changed in 21 years...but...no major dental (can be identified by country) no major scars (same as last answer) and tattoos are an Article 15 and a trip to a leg unit.

Kind of hard to be SpecOps otherwise.

It's common sense. Whenever someone displays a Libre De Oppreso, Airborne tattoo, my Bullshit detector starts alarming loudly!

Things have changed enormously in 21 years, really. It's a whole different kind of thing.

260 datadude  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 1:58:03pm

re: #248 BulgarWheat

Carter only wishes he had the notoriety of FDR...but
I'll grant you the socialist thing. Who was it that lamented
about (paraphrase) "...once the coffers being opened up...
it'd be almost impossible to close them..."? I don't think
any objective person can argue that FDR wasn't responsible
for swingin' 'em wiiide open.

261 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:01:31pm

#256 galloping granny

I don't argue at all with the fact that the "Eastern Front" exhausted the Nazis, who were socialists as well. I also remember their little pact. Cut from the same cloth as far as I concerned. I agree with you there.

I will, however, disagree with you on one point. Simply taken in terms of American treasure and lives, the Soviet Union over the period of 43 years tool a greated toll on America than did WWII and Nazi Germany.

Trade Unionists, agreed as well. Too many red-diaper types in academia for me and have been for years.

262 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:02:05pm

re: #189 BulgarWheat

I am reminded of The Quiet man, when Michaeleen sez to Squire Danaher's man, "Go away, ya spawn!"

263 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:02:51pm
264 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:03:48pm

Up - DOWN!
Right - LEFT!
For - AGAINST!
Hello - GOODBYE!

Cog's in da house!

265 Classic Conservative  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:05:04pm

#185 - ChenZhen

Invading Iraq was one of the most strategically forward-looking and smartest things we've done it a while. I've felt this way the whole time. It drew all this pricks into a nice big killzone and may very well discredit the Al Qaeda ideology in the eyes of many Muslims. Al Qaeda is getting creamed ideologically and physically in Iraq and Iraq (if the Iraqis stand up) will be a very valuable partner and base of operations for us for a long time to come.

266 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:05:28pm
267 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:07:53pm

#262 cbinflux

I'm not familiar with that Movie/Book, but I like it.

ChenZen, check what #262 said. That sounds about right.

268 Buckeye Abroad  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:08:17pm

#124 Beagle

It would be nice to bag Bin Laden, but I don't think the global jihad will be affected very much. It's hard to believe he's alive with no video since 2004.

Agreed. I think he has been dead for a couple of years now. Unless BL appears with todays copy of the NYT, I will contiue to believe he's dead.

269 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:09:48pm
270 galloping granny  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:09:49pm

re: #261 BulgarWheat

#256 galloping granny

I don't argue at all with the fact that the "Eastern Front" exhausted the Nazis, who were socialists as well. I also remember their little pact. Cut from the same cloth as far as I concerned. I agree with you there.

I will, however, disagree with you on one point. Simply taken in terms of American treasure and lives, the Soviet Union over the period of 43 years tool a greated toll on America than did WWII and Nazi Germany.

Trade Unionists, agreed as well. Too many red-diaper types in academia for me and have been for years.

We weren't talking about 43 years worth of Soviet Union though - just the FDR period.

271 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:10:32pm

re: #264 cbinflux

Up - DOWN!
Right - LEFT!
For - AGAINST!
Hello - GOODBYE!

Cog's in da house!

LOL! We love you Cognito! Though MSM journalism SUCKS!

/ducks under desk...

272 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:10:44pm

re: #264 cbinflux

Up - DOWN!
Right - LEFT!
For - AGAINST!
Hello - GOODBYE!

Cog's in da house!

Hm?

273 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:12:31pm

re: #266 Iron Fist

re: #195 Cognito,

That there are. "No greater enemy, nor greater friend..."

That's the way it used to be. And that's the way it should be.

That part is largely still true, I'd say. But structurally, the way SF and CAG teams, etc, are put together now, there's less emphasis -- to my meager knowledge -- on things like dental work and tattoos.

274 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:13:01pm

#270 galloping granny

I would grant you that, but FDR opened the cookie jar and no one could get the darn thing closed after that.

He was a socialist. His cabinet was full of fellow travelers, he rail roaded the Supreme Court and not to mention the monster created @ Jeckyl Island. FDR and his schemes have impoverished this country and I am never going to cut the piece of dreck a bit of slack.

/spit!

275 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:14:10pm

re: #266 Iron Fist

re: #195 Cognito,

That there are. "No greater enemy, nor greater friend..."

That's the way it used to be. And that's the way it should be.

Oh, sorry Iron Fist -- I thought you were replying to 295, instead of 195. So my response probably makes zero sense. Ignore!

276 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:15:53pm

re: #235 galloping granny

"GG" -

One commitment that we seem to keep, regardless of party in power,
is the pledge to leave Castro in place. One would hope that when the official news of his demise comes, that situation would change.

-S-

277 BenZacharia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:17:36pm

re: #275 Cognito

So my response probably makes zero sense

Always. :)

278 realwest  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:18:17pm

re: #193 BenZacharia A L.A.W. as in Light Anti-Tank Weapon?! Yeah, I've fired a couple of them (but not at tanks, if you get my drift!) and I don't know what the M2 is - is it a version of the M-16?

279 Roger  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:18:19pm

re: #183 Sharmuta

He's the President until January 2009, so- do we have a choice? I mean- other than joining the impeach Bush crowd?

Yes, we have another choice. He's not a dictator. President Bush needs to learn his ~30% approval rating is because he isn't pleasing folks on either side. Please one or the other and his rating goes up. (I don't know what would save Congresses approval rating; can we impeach them?)

We are to be represented in our representative government. President Bush's amnasty was shut down multiple times by the people getting vocal.

280 RichatUF  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:18:27pm

#190 beddgelert

Colin Powell was not and could never have been a good statesman, he took orders rather than define them, he had no experience beyond his many roles in the military. A Secretary of State's job resume should read "Deal Maker" not "Order Taker".

One committed to personal honor above other things can be shamed.


#176 ECC

Bush jr. is mostly responsible for this absurd "Relgion of Piece" bullshit we're confronted with today. When has Islam EVER had such a political presence in the thriving West? Yet, somehow, after 9/11, Islam, which should have quickly become a pariah-religion after the murder of 3,000 plus American people has more of a foothold in western politics, throughout the western hemisphere, then it ever did before.

Huh? American Jihad was first published in 1994 and updated in 2003. The terror fundraising trials (both Virgina and HLF) were based on spiked investigations from 1995-7. And why should have Islam become a pariah religion after 9-11, when Communism wasn't discredited during the Stalin's collectivation and Maoism wasn't discredited after the Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward and...and today one can find members of the old faith ensconsed in some tenured position preaching from the old scriptures.

281 galloping granny  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:18:32pm

re: #274 BulgarWheat

#270 galloping granny

I would grant you that, but FDR opened the cookie jar and no one could get the darn thing closed after that.

He was a socialist. His cabinet was full of fellow travelers, he rail roaded the Supreme Court and not to mention the monster created @ Jeckyl Island. FDR and his schemes have impoverished this country and I am never going to cut the piece of dreck a bit of slack.

/spit!

Sorry Bulgar - that cookie jar was opened before FDR. I don't cut him much slack - but I also won't blame him for things that others are responsible for. And BTW, I think it was Eleanor (that dear soul who gave us the UNHRC) who was ultimately the "socialist"- if not outright communist.

At the same time, remember that the former King of England and his American wife were outright Nazis and such an embarrassment that they were banned from England.

282 realwest  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:20:06pm

re: #193 BenZacharia PS! Sorry it took so long getting back to you at my #278 Ben, but I had to do some medication stuff.

283 BenZacharia  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:23:04pm

Real...

Browning M2 .50 caliber heavy machine gun. about 6' long and weighs 50#?

284 BulgarWheat  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:26:12pm

#281 galloping granny

Eleanor was not elected, Hot Wheels was.

The monarchy of England has not mattered to me since we "evicted" them 231 years ago.

285 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:26:14pm

re: #267 BulgarWheat

The Quiet Man is an AWESOME film. Cool Hand Luke good.

286 galloping granny  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:30:40pm

re: #284 BulgarWheat

#281 galloping granny

Eleanor was not elected, Hot Wheels was.

The monarchy of England has not mattered to me since we "evicted" them 231 years ago.

When you elect the man, you get the woman he drags along too. Just call Eleanor the prototype for Shrillery.

287 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:31:15pm

re: #272 Cognito

Ad hominem is fun, isn't it?

288 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:31:37pm

re: #272 Cognito

I was only saying again that you're an entertaining Kontrarian, sort of a Devil's Advocate on Crack.

/What others have said, "We love you, but we know you..."

289 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:32:33pm
290 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:33:30pm

re: #287 Sharmuta

re: #272 Cognito

Ad hominem is fun, isn't it?

Hm?

291 bulwrk  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:33:48pm

re: #283 BenZacharia


I believe the receiver alone weighs in at 50lbs .

292 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:33:58pm

re: #289 buzzsawmonkey

Just ad hominem!

LOL! Nice job!

293 cbinflux  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:34:05pm

re: #289 buzzsawmonkey

re: #287 Sharmuta

New, Instant Flame War!

Just ad hominem!

FUNNY! But no ad hominen req'd, Cog has a huge body of work here -- and it's ALWAYS jumping in on the other side of something or the other.

294 jcm  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:34:20pm

Where does the aversion to fighting and winning inside the beltway come form? Do you check your cojones at the edge of town?

JCM's ROE.
Located bad guy.
Kill 'em.

Then send the report to the REMF.

295 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:34:56pm

re: #288 cbinflux

re: #272 Cognito

I was only saying again that you're an entertaining Kontrarian, sort of a Devil's Advocate on Crack.

/What others have said, "We love you, but we know you..."

Believe it or not I don't only have contrarian opinions. But I don't mind speaking up.

So: I object, sir!

296 ChenZhen  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:35:22pm

re: #265 Classic Conservative

#185 - ChenZhen

Invading Iraq was one of the most strategically forward-looking and smartest things we've done it a while. I've felt this way the whole time. It drew all this pricks into a nice big killzone and may very well discredit the Al Qaeda ideology in the eyes of many Muslims. Al Qaeda is getting creamed ideologically and physically in Iraq and Iraq (if the Iraqis stand up) will be a very valuable partner and base of operations for us for a long time to come.

I'm sure the Iraqis are in love with the idea of turning their country into a "kill zone". So much so that they're sure to be our "valued partner". Do you really believe this crap?

297 Thanos  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:35:43pm

Heh, I just wrote my piece on the Newsweek retreaded rumor article, come over here and see that Charles is ahead of me. Here's what I wrote.

[Link: noblesseoblige.org...]

You can tell it’s the dog days...
you can tell circulation is fading...
you can tell Tora Bora is being hit again...
you can tell we are nearing the report on the important surge in Iraq...
When magazines retread rumors and old news on Osama Bin Laden.

In Newsweek’s upcoming edition you will see all the old stuff, coupled with a visit to the front in Tora Bora where the Uzbek and Chechens who have been pushed out of Pakistan by Mehsud and the Pakistan army’s separate actions are getting obliterated.

Now I’m going to offer some wild, opinion based speculation — putting myself in AQ’s shoes for a short while. Since the leadership has always fled before the storm arrives in the past leaving brainwashed flotsam to mask their retreats, I assume that’s what they’ve done now. IF they were in the Frontiers, they probably aren’t anymore with the pincers closed both sides of the border.

While the hunt in Tora Bora is likely to net us some important leaders in Al Qaeda, Bin Laden’s not going to be one of them. As I’ve said in the past — Bin Laden’s dead, captured, held prisoner elsewhere (Iran, or by Ayman Al Zawahiri,) or he’s beyond caring anymore. He’s thoroughly ineffective now, and our efforts need to be focused on Zawahiri and As Sahab, Al Qaeda’s media front.

From the frequency and type of releases we know that Ayman’s somewhere close to somewhat sophisticated production facilities — meaning Peshawar, Quetta, or another civilized to semi-civilized metropolitan area.

The only other speculations I would offer is that we’ve seen a steady increase in Uzbek and Chechen agit-prop media productions the past three months, so it’s possible he could be in Tashkent, Samarkand, or another spot in Uzbekistan. Another potential is a shift to Bangladesh; the unrest there the past couple of months speaks to someone pulling strings behind the scenes.

I offer these up since Al Qaeda’s worn out their welcome in the frontiers by declaring war on their previous hosts — Pashtunwali only goes so far after that. Once tribal markets started burning and normal business was interupted AQAM became less welcome than a cross-border surgical strike. AQ’s a liability to the old-guard ISI contingent with war declared, not an ally — anyone can see that.

Here’s the usual bodyguard and entourage rumors, here’s a preview of the mostly retread Newsweek piece that’s upcoming. Newsweek also takes obligatory swipes at Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the competence of our forces and operations in general at several spots in the article.

298 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:36:13pm

re: #290 Cognito

Just noticing how you get attacked as much as your comments.

299 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:36:47pm

re: #296 ChenZhen

Where were you last night when I requested this?

300 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:37:25pm

re: #298 Sharmuta

re: #290 Cognito

Just noticing how you get attacked as much as your comments.

Ah. Well. It's not so bad. Most of it's all in good sport.

301 southernborn  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:37:41pm

re: #131 Eric Cartman's Conscience
That's to say Bush is a fresh pile of doo-doo or a steaming pile of shite...in the parlance of our times.
So just imagine what the other choice was? perhaps unspeakable...?

302 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:39:41pm

re: #300 Cognito

Yeah- I know. I'll share my smelling salts with you if you ever need them, 'Kay? ;)

303 southernborn  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:40:55pm

re: #296 ChenZhen

Im wondering just how would the iraqis notice any change?
They have always been a kill zone. the only difference is, One monster kept at bay the other monsters.

304 bulwrk  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:42:10pm

re: #296 ChenZhen


Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
William Tecumseh Sherman

305 yochanan  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:47:09pm

Some time back AL quada admitted to having sent 6,000 martyrs into Iraq some of whom were euro converts who could have easily have come to our homeland. not that any defeaticrats will ever admit this.

306 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:49:29pm

re: #305 yochanan

Yeah wasn't one of those martyrs a brainwashed belgian woman married to some islamofreak who as a couple blew themselves up in Iraq? Nothing says love like his and her suicide vests!

307 realwest  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:55:18pm

re: #283 BenZacharia Ah, Ma Duece - nope, never fired one (probably couldln't lift it to move it in my current condition)!
What is the main rifle the army's using now - someone we both know - who might in fact be you're "celebrity guest" and I were talking and I was trash talking the Vietnam M-16, but not the CAR version (shorter barrell, much shorter folding stock) shot straight as shit right out of the box, and he said that they're now using another m somethng or other - don't remember the designation.
But Ma Duece - love her, but never fired her
(except for "familiarity training in Advanced
Infantry Training and that was a looong way from actually using it). You're kidding me about having LAWs, right?

308 hillbilly geek  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:56:17pm

re: #94 baconeatingkaffir

re: #84 baconeatingkaffir

re: #79 Killgore Trout

Aaah Killgore, that explains why the bastages stole my GI brown underpants off the lines when I first came here as a GI back in the day!

I still have images of some Kurdish macho-man trying to hit on a woman with his sexy amerikali asker underwear. What kind of sick twisted deranged person steals second hand skivvies?

As Emo said:
I made out like a bandit last Christmas... got some new underwear... well, new to me, anyway!

309 ChenZhen  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 2:59:40pm

re: #299 Sharmuta

re: #296 ChenZhen

Where were you last night when I requested this?

You probably don't want to know.

310 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:01:57pm

re: #302 Sharmuta

re: #300 Cognito

Yeah- I know. I'll share my smelling salts with you if you ever need them, 'Kay? ;)

Sounds good to me.

311 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:03:01pm

re: #309 ChenZhen

I'll take your word for it.

312 realwest  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:04:32pm

re: #310 Cognito Hey there! You sound as if you got out of the service much later than many of us, is the M-16 still the primary rifle for American Infantry?

313 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:05:41pm
314 realwest  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:07:36pm

Addendum to my #312 - reason I ask is that someone I know who VERY recently got out of the Air Force told me that they had a new M something or other (we were drinking, it was late and I thought he said M-2, although as Benz kindly reminded me, that's the Ma Duece .50 caliber. Actually, thinking back on it, I was referring to the CAR 15 which was basically a chopped down M-16 and he said they have something newer now.

315 Silhouette  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:08:54pm

re: #295 Cognito

There's just something funny about being accused of being contrarian, and saying, "No, I'm not."

Not meaning to rag on either of you, but it cracks me up.

316 Ledger1  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:09:20pm

re: #3 Highrise

I just can't read newsweek after some of the tripe they have put out. I simply don't trust them...

Maybe other lizards can give better books to read, but I rather enjoyed Tommy Frank's book on the subject - American Soldier. It seemed well reasoned some of the decisions made in afghanistan.

I quit reading Newsweek about 3 years ago and I have not missed them. I don’t trust them either. You can’t verify what they say (Note: I did not read the entire Newsweek article because it would just give them more readership and ad revenue).

The last paragraph in Charles’ post is highly anti-American. That’s typically what Newsweek prints.

As for getting Mullah Omar in 2002, it had been discussed in the past and many people in the field blamed the JAGs and their ROEs.

It would be better to find out who these JAGs are and why they write such restrictive ROEs (other than to give them a chance to convict a US soldier for fighting a war).

317 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:14:36pm

re: #312 realwest

re: #310 Cognito Hey there! You sound as if you got out of the service much later than many of us, is the M-16 still the primary rifle for American Infantry?

Hey, realwest, afraid I never served. One of my biggest regrets. But I've spent a bit of time afield, and the guys I went with carried M4s.

318 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:14:59pm

re: #315 Silhouette

re: #295 Cognito

There's just something funny about being accused of being contrarian, and saying, "No, I'm not."

Not meaning to rag on either of you, but it cracks me up.

Yeah, it was a joke.

319 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:18:21pm
320 GreenDroll  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:18:45pm

If I wasn't busy doing important stuff, I would be trying to cop the big reward for finding OBL. I would not waste my time in the wastelands of Paki or Afghanistan, I would be looking in the better hotels in Paris. No rich guy, regardless of his religious convictions. holes up in a cave in some remote part of the world. Geneva, Amsterdam, Cologne, Rome, he is there somewhere. A survey of recluses in penthouses who order in Arabic take out would have him on the carpet in two weeks.

321 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:20:28pm
322 hous bin pharteen  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:20:33pm

#130 cognito

but that's not what happened here. American forces don't purposefully kill innocent civilians. Full stop. It's the difference between us and them.

Hous picks up clue bat...

Shuffles into the batters box...

Cleans off the plate...

takes a few practice swings...

323 hous bin pharteen  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:21:41pm

Sets up at the plate...

Stares down the pitcher...

Takes a big swing, and its...

324 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:22:07pm

re: #322 hous bin pharteen

#130 cognito

but that's not what happened here. American forces don't purposefully kill innocent civilians. Full stop. It's the difference between us and them.
Hous picks up clue bat...

Shuffles into the batters box...

Cleans off the plate...

takes a few practice swings...

Go for it!

325 Sharmuta  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:22:18pm

re: #319 Iron Fist

So argue that Saddam needed to be left in power. I am most curious to hear that reasoning.

Wow- good point. Especially considering regime change was clinton policy.

326 hous bin pharteen  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:24:40pm
American forces don't purposefully kill innocent civilians.

IF these were "innocent civilians" there would not have been a lot of dead SEALS.

Can the sanctimonious bullshit, fool.
They are harboring and working with our enemy.

327 dak  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:25:17pm
and sometimes the brass at Kandahar or Baghram would kick back and tell you the spelling was incorrect, that you weren’t using the tab to delimit the form correctly.”

I believe that. Generals have staff and EAs and secretaries that screen all this stuff. Sometimes they are clueless.

328 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:27:23pm

re: #326 hous bin pharteen

American forces don't purposefully kill innocent civilians.
IF these were "innocent civilians" there would not have been a lot of dead SEALS.

Can the sanctimonious bullshit, fool.
They are harboring and working with our enemy.

Sanctimonious, indeed.

You don't kill unarmed shepherds. If the guys knew they were "harboring and working with our enemy," then they would have been justified in killing them. But they didn't know that.

329 hous bin pharteen  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:30:49pm

Cognito

Wrong.
If they were working in that area they should have known that. It would be part of the mission intelligence.
You can't harbor, feed, shelter, and provide intelligence to one side in a war and then all of a sudden play the innocent when the shit hit the fan.

330 Cognito  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:33:24pm

re: #329 hous bin pharteen

Cognito

Wrong.
If they were working in that area they should have known that. It would be part of the mission intelligence.
You can't harbor, feed, shelter, and provide intelligence to one side in a war and then all of a sudden play the innocent when the shit hit the fan.

Exactly: Mission intelligence. If the team stumbled across a group of shepherds mid-mission, that's a problem, very possibly with intelligence. But it doesn't give them license to KILL the shepherds.

Show me any precedent for that. Any at all.

331 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:33:38pm
332 Blax GOP  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 3:55:57pm

For some reason this doesn't suprise me at all...

Once again, we have no one else to thank but the former Clinton Admin and its cadre of weak willed sisters that has stifled the warrior culture (Zero Defect...Don't hurt anyone but BAD people, okay?) and trade craft (Oh no, you CANT deal with criminals...that makes us look BAD) of the United States...A culture, mind you that isn't declawed, but they sure as hell took away the most important weapon in our arsenal...flexibility.

To conduct modern warfare, you HAVE to be able to adjust your tactics on the fly sometimes...That means we trust the on the scene eyes (be they non-com or not) and use that information supplied to get the damn job done.

Yes, without a doubt strategic plans and policy need to be done at the correct levels, but dammit, the ability to conduct TACTICAL operations, especially when initiated by SF troops should be green-lit at every opportunity...Thats the purpose of SF, to move at a moments notice, with speed and lethality, not mired down in "Mother May I?" conventional thinking...thats why you have regular ground troops in the FIRST place!

But no: 1989, The Berlin Wall came down, and peace was supposedly breaking out all over...We slashed our standing forces 40% now we have lawyers instead of policy planners...we have ROE some convoluted it makes a 10,000 piece puzzle being assembled by blind 1 armed monkeys on a deadline seem like a piece of cake.

This isn't even the worse of it: One of the few aspects of the Federal Government responsibility is to provide for the Common Defense, and now we have to OUTSOURCE that too, because our military & intelligence agencies have been knocked back to snooping via satellites and other hi tech toys, or watching CNN. Or using private companies to do our SF work, because some dingleberry is too scared to give the GO command to people already up and ready for it.

This isn't a dig at Blackwater and similar operations, but I do get a bit uneasy knowing that these companies are a necessary evil...and that I'm paying for Defense 2 times over when iit could be done ONCE, and just let our people do their jobs, and believe that we aren't trying to intentionally target non-combatants...Its that kind of asinine thinking that GAVE us the 1960's in the first place..

Hey all you leftards out there; take this as a clue: The military isn't out there to just give out the GI bill or pass out food ...its there to defend our national will and project it to far shores and lands.

If we have to go relearn this lesson AGAIN, after 2008, we are in for one hell of a bad start to the new century.

333 AZfederalist  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 4:08:48pm

This is where the comparison to Vietnam is not only close, it's spot-on. And the really sad thing is that the Bush administration and Pentagon are running the war just like Vietnam. Can't engage the enemy unless you've specifically laid out the plan, when you are going to attack, how, with how many people and why. Now, get the required signatures, and, if you're lucky, nobody will leak the plans to the MSM before the plan is executed. If there's still time after the approval cycle. If the enemy is still in the same friggin' place after the approval cycle.

/it just seems so surreal

334 Iron Fist[deleted]  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 4:22:52pm
335 JeffinSac  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 4:55:38pm

Osama is dead. He was a media hound that released a tape and statement every month after 9/11 and the last know tape was from Dec 2001. It was in Dec 2001 that the US bombed the hell out of Tora Bora. Since then it is the Terrorist and Media who keep the story he is alive going.

336 Render  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 4:58:47pm

About tattoo's in Uncle Sam's military...

[Link: www.strategypage.com...]

[Link: www.strategypage.com...]

===

About the M-2HB 12.7mm 50cal heavy machinegun...

64 inches long and weighs 84lbs, minus the tripod (another 90+ pounds), and ammo.

CREW
SERVED,
R

337 legalpad  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 5:20:16pm
“My great concern is that one day the United States is going to desert me. They always desert their friends.”


They need to get a few thousand Iraqi refugees over here. The State Department seems to be telling the interpreters, "Too bad. You knew it was dangerous to work for us." The Assistant Secretary of State says that after 911 the process of bringing people in is much slower than before. Security concerns, you know. Unless you are from Mexico.

338 whammo  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 6:38:17pm

No poll on whether OBL is even currently alive? :p

339 hous bin pharteen  Sun, Aug 26, 2007 8:15:33pm

#330 cognate

You have no idea what I am talking about.
Big surprise.
Intelligence would not know there was a shepherd at that location and at that time. How in the hell would anybody know that? But nice way to bash the troops responsible for the intelligence.
The information given to the SEALS would be if the natives were friendly or were providing aid to QA. In this case the natives were hostile and should have been dealt with as hostiles.

You want precedent? You don't think this has ever happened in the history of US warfare? You don't think these gentleman were trained in how to deal with just such a situation as this considering their job is to go behind enemy lines?

You still can't get past the fact they were NOT innocent shepherd's?
The village they came from was harboring Ahmad Shah and his Tali ban troops. These guys had been causing many casualties to our troops in the area.
Militarily they knew what they should do, but they were afraid of it getting out and they would end up getting charged with murder. Someones sensibilities might get hurt.
So instead 19 of them died. The worse loss the SEALS have ever taken.
And how many other US troops were killed by Ahmed and his boys after they high tailed it out of there.

340 theheat  Mon, Aug 27, 2007 2:29:17am

George Bush, Dhimmi Carter, Homer Simpson. Of the three, only Homer Simpson has any charm. I wouldn't trust gated community security to any of them, let alone plan and carry out a war.

341 someguy  Mon, Aug 27, 2007 5:37:44am

re: #332 Blax GOP

That sums it up better than the rest of the comments here.

As an actual participant in the military for the last 16 years of my life, I have watched as the warrior culture has been slowly but deliberately eroded by civilian leadership and flag and general officers whose one abiding concern is to stay out of trouble.

Cases in point: The use of the term "leadership failure" to assign blame for fu&k ups small and great (translated: if a soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine who's name you've never even heard bones something up, start writing your resume now).

Then there's the hysteria over any remark or action that can be labeled as "hazing." (The slogan used to sum up the fear of this happening is: "We don't want to have a CNN moment." No longer do the low self-esteem kids have a chance to experience a tangible sense of accomplishment by having undergone an ordeal in which they had a chance to show what they can do and endure under extreme stress. Now the accent is on "diversity," exemplified by "heritage celebrations" which amount to appeasing the aggrieved minority of the month.

Then, too, much of the General Military Training that used to deal with actual military topics has been replaced by classes on how to drive, how to ride a motorcycle (if you don't take them, you don't get the windshield sticker you need to drive on base), how to eat, how not to piss away your paycheck, etc. And if your troops don't get to those classes, it's your fault regardless.

The rot is so deep at this point, I can't imagine where or how to start getting rid of it or how long it would take.

342 idaniboy  Mon, Aug 27, 2007 2:11:00pm

re: #335 JeffinSac

We sure did bomb the hell out of Tora Bora, but afterwards we relied on bickering Afghan warlords on the ground... OBL had plenty of time to escape at his leisure.


This entry has been archived.
Comments are closed.

^ back to top ^

log in
Name:
Pass:

Register Forgot Your Password? My Account Re-send Confirmation (To log in, cookies must be enabled in your browser!)

► LGF Headlines

  • Loading...

► Top 10 Comments

  • Loading...

► Bottom Comments

  • Loading...

► Recent Comments

  • Loading...

► Tools/Info

► LGF Hits

► Slideshows

► Resources

► Never Forget

► Statistics

► Tag Cloud

► Contact

You must have Javascript enabled to use the contact form.
Your email:

Subject:

Message:


Messages may be published in our weblog, unless you request otherwise.
Tech Note:
Using the Contact Form

► News/Opinion

  • Loading...

More Partners

Compare Electricity Prices in your area. Texas Electricity is deregulated; you have the right to choose Texas Electric Rates from among many Texas Electric Companies.

The lowest of the low.

Follow Lizardoid on Twitter

 Frank says:

You can tell what they think of our music by the places we are forced to play it in. This looks like a good spot for a livestock show. -- The Mothers of Invention were opening for Cream in April of 1968 in Chicago. The place was very large and did look like it had been used for displays of cattle and other such animals.

Tikatok Gift Cards - Capture your child's imagination . . . in a book!