Truth to Power !

And the hildebeast they rode in on.

I hope McCain is in the '08 administration somewhere.

John's on the "No Surrender" tour, and that part matches the base's desire, and is heartfelt by him

The left kook fringe is now the Democrat mainstream.

McCain lost me when he start to attack the First Amendment.

If I didn't like Rudy, I would vote for McCain.

I tend to agree with John on this one, but what would be the basis? Unless the organization can be shown to be in direct violation of US law, nothing could be done.

Speaking of which, anyone know what ever came of the accusations that Code Pink and other peacenik groups were funneling money to militants in Iraq? That was a hot story about a month ago, but I haven't heard anything for a while.

Rudy/McCain '08 !

re: #10 ted

Rudy/McCain '08 !

Why not?

Once twice thes cuatro cinco burned, twice shy.

For once, I actually support a mccain statement.

/Hope it's not a sign of Armageddon.

Is it just me, or has Mccain been on a upswing since the GOP debate about a week and a half ago.? Every campaign has it's up and down times. It looks like the Mccain campaign is on a rise

Australia: Griffith University A Hotbed Of Wahabism?

The pattern that repeats itself wherever Saudi money corrupts Western institutions of higher learning: Georgetown and Harvard received 20 million dollars each in order to muzzle any critique about the ‘Religion of Peace’ -

[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

This is the man that wants to give us Shamnesty. Wants to give MS13 gang members citizenship by making a 'promise' that holds as much water as taquyyia to be good boys. Gave us McCain-Feingold, an affront to First Amendment speech issues. Which brings us to this particular matter. Of course I flat out hated the moveon ad, but that is the type of speech that the first amendment was designed to protect. Thanks, St. John, for giving the lefties all kinds of fodder to use against us.

It is the only way McCain can resurrect his chances after his Amnesty, Open Borders And American Deconstruction Bill. But it is working. He has made up 9 points.

John McCain laments, "My God, what have I done".
He should have read Frankenstein before disturbing the Natural Order, ie: Rogering the 1st Amendment of The Constitution of The United States of America.

re: #6 Da_Beerfreak

McCain lost me when he start to attack the First Amendment.

I washed my hands of him after that F*ckup called campaign finance reform! Did us a lotta good, didn't it?!

I agree wholeheartedly with McCain on this one. However, alas, I have no use for McCain and the rest of his ideas.

NYT had a moveOn article yesterday...not a single mention of Soros.

Oh yeah...forgot to add...
/spit

re: #19 paxnhymn

Yeah that law was why groups like this were created, to get around campaign finance laws.

re: #19 paxnhymn

It did the Democrats a great deal of good. They own the media or vice versa.

re: #13 SharmutaAmen, me too.

Hmmm, they have the right to speak even if what they say is garbage and we disagree with them.

I would prefer if we let them speak, and give widest exposure to the nation of what they have to say so that the whole nation can see how ridiculous they are.

When they become the objects of scorn and the butt end of jokes, then their influence will diminish. Let us expose them for what they are, or at least allow their stupidity and irrelevance to the body politic be exposed.

Let Kos talk. Let Move on talk.

If we take away their right to talk, then we will set a president for them to take away ours, and it is possible that the fairness doctrine will become the law of the land with calamitous results.

Our founders knew what they were advocating when they insisted on freedom of speech.

related:

Progress In Iraq Is A Real Big Problem For Democrats

h/t: insta and protein

If Rudy is smart, he'll get the most popular southern "Conservative" he can grab for the V.P. Assuming Rudy wins the nomination, if he takes a liberal or even a moderate as his running mate, he will have a very difficult time getting many Conservatives to even cast a vote and Republicans don't win without their base enthused. That I am sure of...and I believe that to be the one strategy Rudy can lose the election.

And John McCain is not that man...

Take a Mike Huckabee or Duncan Hunter (though he's not Southern), two states that will be in play during the election.

re: #27 shanec99

Hmmm, they have the right to speak even if what they say is garbage and we disagree with them.

I would prefer if we let them speak, and give widest exposure to the nation of what they have to say so that the whole nation can see how ridiculous they are.

When they become the objects of scorn and the butt end of jokes, then their influence will diminish. Let us expose them for what they are, or at least allow their stupidity and irrelevance to the body politic be exposed.

Let Kos talk. Let Move on talk.

If we take away their right to talk, then we will set a president for them to take away ours, and it is possible that the fairness doctrine will become the law of the land with calamitous results.

Our founders knew what they were advocating when they insisted on freedom of speech.

Second!

re: #9 song_and_dance_man

I would like to see the baby thrown out with the bath water in this instance.

You don't like baby's?

re: #11 experiencedtraveller

re: #10 ted

Rudy/McCain '08 !

Why not?

Because the VP spot should go to one of the younger second string candidates like D Hunter or Huckabee to get them ready to run for President in 2012 or 2016. It would be a waste to give it to McCain or Fred.

Never happen, of course. It’s a George Soros enterprise.

But you go, John.

I'm feeling particularly contrary tonight. Do we really need stupid, impractical, over the top rhetoric like "Impeach Bush for war crimes" or "Throw Moveon.org out of the country"?
It's never gonna happen and contrary to current laws. Was the ad offensive? Yes. Does it require deportations? No.
I thought Rudy's response was adequate and didn't endorse curtailing freedom of speech. I expect more from our presidential candidates than pandering, unreasonable rhetoric. leave that to the Dems.

I find this comment in the article most interesting, "The liberal advocacy group angered Republicans earlier this week with a full-page ad in the New York Times criticizing Gen. David Petraeus as he prepared to testify before Congress."

As if only Republicans could be angered by an ad calling one of our generals a liar and traitor before he even presented his report. Just shows you how low the Democrat party has sunk.

So let me get this straight, MoveOn.org should be thrown out of the country for using their first amendment rights to disparage a US general during a war, but yet non US citizens who violate laws to come to this country and then commit identity theft in order to get jobs should not only stay but be granted citizenship? Am I missing something here?

Has anyone studied how much Soros money is actually Saudi?

re: #32 Da_Beerfreak

re: #11 experiencedtraveller

re: #10 ted

Rudy/McCain '08 !

Why not?

Because the VP spot should go to one of the younger second string candidates like D Hunter or Huckabee to get them ready to run for President in 2012 or 2016. It would be a waste to give it to McCain or Fred.

naw. Hunter/Huckabee should be the ticket if we had the balls to go back to our conservative roots!

re: #35 SecretInternetDoucheBag

So let me get this straight, MoveOn.org should be thrown out of the country for using their first amendment rights to disparage a US general during a war, but yet non US citizens who violate laws to come to this country and then commit identity theft in order to get jobs should not only stay but be granted citizenship? Am I missing something here?

yes...he needs his lawn cut...don't be a bigot...sarq.

Did anybody catch Susan Estrich's disgraceful sleight of hand when she claimed in this piece on FoxNews that MoveOn attacked General Petreus by using tactics developed by conservatives?

On Monday, the day Petraeus was to begin his testimony, in the great tradition of Washington politics, MoveOn.org blasted him before hearing a word of it. In a full page ad in the New York Times, that became the talk of Congress, the talk shows, and cable news (as it was supposed to), the liberal group accused Petraeus of "cooking the books," and charged that he was betraying the American peoples' trust by spinning the facts to support the White House.
. . . .
In his new book, “The Argument,” Matt Bai, after carefully researching MoveOn and other new generation Democratic activists and bloggers, concludes that what they are offering is not so much a new vision as a new strategy; that they are seeking to match the “right wing conspiracy,” which spews out faxes and statements every day, blogs on Drudge and speaks through Rush and Hannity, with a left-wing version, which spews just as much ink, blogs on Huffington, and speaks through Olberman.

You control fires by building new ones, or at least you meet fire with fire, and if we all end up in the rubble, you certainly can’t blame the people who fought back second rather the ones who started it first. The Left has, in a word, adopted the tactics of the right. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

“Repeat a lie often enough and the people will believe it!” Right Susan?

While I disagree heartily with some of McCain's ideas, it pains me to see the man himself trashed. At least I think I see him being trashed. Maybe I'm just seeing things.

(pat, don't you think his recent stumping is heartfelt, rather than a ploy? I'm not sure what you mean by "It's working.")

Ralph Peters has convinced me that we need McCain in '08. In the Cabinet, in Blair House, or in the White House if it comes to that.

"...saying MoveOn.org should be “thrown out of this country.”..."

Cant't quite agree with this statement. But I certainly believe an FEC investigation may be warranted given the discrepancies in billing the NYTs between this organization and the rate others pay.

re: #35 SecretInternetDoucheBag

I think you are right on my friend. I think our beloved Senator from Arizona should take the time to reconsider his statement.

Gates' one-word answer was better; "Despicable!"

He's right on.

John McCain runs hot and cold. This is the old McCain I used to admire. I supported him before I did Bush. He's learned a hard lesson - the base doesn't like it when you snuggle up to the DNC/MSM.

No matter what, I will always respect and admire him as a true American Hero. (Unlike the phony war hero- John Kerry)

As reprehensible as moveon.org is to me how does McCain justify shutting them down? Something about that pesky First Amendment comes to mind. Freedom of speech requires some responsibilities that moveon folks haven't seen fit to do. That is the biggest issue I see (irresponsible/intemperate speech in time of war). Those of us who served and serve today protected the rights of those folks to say what they say without government intervention.

I will take some heat over this, but it is a First Amendment issue.

re: #41 Outrider

Absolutely.

Stars and Stripes Forever -

re: #40 squarepeg

While I disagree heartily with some of McCain's ideas, it pains me to see the man himself trashed. At least I think I see him being trashed. Maybe I'm just seeing things.

(pat, don't you think his recent stumping is heartfelt, rather than a ploy? I'm not sure what you mean by "It's working.")

Ralph Peters has convinced me that we need McCain in '08. In the Cabinet, in Blair House, or in the White House if it comes to that.

Peters...the man who thinks we pick on Islam?...go to Jihadwatch...serch Peters.

re: #46 song_and_dance_man

re: #31 storagemanager

MoveOn is the baby and Soros is the one who washes the bastard tike.

Throw them both out. But it is not likely and Charles has it right when h3e says: Never happen, of course. It’s a George Soros enterprise.

I was kidding you.

re: #36 desertdweller

I don't know if any Soros group takes money from the Saudis. However when he was currency trading back in the 1990's , He and is group made at least 1 Billion (yes, B) by shorting the British pound. If i ever have luck like that with my trades, I'll be taking the lizard community out for drinks

OT, P2P
How did a confidential terrorist threat assessment of Chicago end up on Limewire?

[Link: www.pcworld.com...]
[Link: www.linuxworld.com.au...]

re: #44 FrogMarch

Yeah I'm wondering if he is doing this so he can get called a "maverick" in the New York Times again.

re: #49 storagemanager

Whoa. I'm on my way there. This doesn't sound like the Ralph Peters I know. brb

John McCain is an exceedingly complex man.

There is no doubt whatsoever that he suffered immeasurably at the hands of the North Vietnamese and despite his horrific ordeal he never lost his sense of humanity or his deep and abiding love of country.

John McCain is an American Hero.

He is also unpredictable, and seemingly easy to anger, and often seen as an opportunist as a politician.

So be it.

His biggest negative for Republicans seem to be his position on Amnesty and his lack of Chief Executive experience.

My vote now is with Rudy, but McCain for VP seems like a potential winner.

Just sayin'.

re: #55 MeTooThen

No way do I want McCain in any other higher office. He does enough damage to this country while in the Senate. Same thing with the hildebeast.

re: #51 chicagodudewhotrades

Hey, I was casually browsing, and saw on a thread that you were blue 90-94.

What did you do?

Terrorist offered amnesty by Olmert caught prepping for new attacks
Latest in a series of violations as Israeli PM likely to pardon more gunmen

/Madonna to decide.

Hey chicago!

How ya doin'? Long time no see.

;)

The Maverick has always been long on talk. Remember, he was the architect of campaign finance reform, which gave groups like MoveOn more power. He should just resign.

re: #45 Perplexed
I would rather we allow fools to talk loudly and expose their ignorance that put a policy in place that may be used to silence thoughtful people when their input is needed in a national policy debate.

Let the fools at Move on talk.

Most of us believe in the wisdom of our parents. My old granny used to say that empty barrels make the most noise.

Move on reminds me of an empty barrel.

re: #55 MeTooThen

His inability to hold a campaign staff speaks volumes.

re: #51 chicagodudewhotrades

I don't know if any Soros group takes money from the Saudis. However when he was currency trading back in the 1990's , He and is group made at least 1 Billion (yes, B) by shorting the British pound. If i ever have luck like that with my trades, I'll be taking the lizard community out for drinks

Keep working on it! And I'll have a JD straight up.

A dumb statement by McCain that just gives the moonbats ammo, and feeds their oppression fantasies.

re: #56 Perplexed

And he is to old.

re: #39 Irene NYC

Estrich spends way too much time in the whiskey bottle.

My great grandad (a veteran of the Spanish American War) said this about the commies, back when, and it still applies, imho:

"Put them on a paper raft and send them back to Rooshia."

I'll be happy to help Senator McCain load MoveOn et all on the paper raft.

Someone really needs to look into the Soros' background. If he really did collaborate with the Nazis as some people have claimed then that would be grounds revoke his status as a US citizen and deport him.

It would also put a stop to his direct funding of political groups here in the US.

re: #56 Perplexed

I can't disagree.

Yours is a common position.

But McCain may help the ticket.

Or not.

Heck, I'm not even a Republican.

What do I know?

re: #54 squarepeg

re: #49 storagemanager

Whoa. I'm on my way there. This doesn't sound like the Ralph Peters I know. brb

I did it for you...
[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...] ...2... [Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

re: #41 Outrider

"...saying MoveOn.org should be “thrown out of this country.”..."

Cant't quite agree with this statement. But I certainly believe an FEC investigation may be warranted given the discrepancies in billing the NYTs between this organization and the rate others pay.

That's exactly why the NYT HAD to give Rudy the same price for his ad. I knew they would cave on that one, they would pay a serious price if not.

FWIW: McCain accused them of treason. Isn't that the basis for his saying they should be thrown out of the country? We're beyond 1st amendment here.

But if we get rid of them, who will take their place to shoot down the L^3s with their own idiotic rhetoric?

Actually, most of the L^3s are fond of putting their unwashed hippie feet in their mouths, so nevermind.

/see ya, moonbats

I thought McCain/Feingold was supposed to fix all that political backroom moneybag shenanigans. You mean it didn't, John?

re: #57 formercorpsman

got out as a IS3. Was on DDG-51.

but but but dissent is patriotic

/

OK, OT but funny
Travelers ask to see Craig bathroom

MINNEAPOLIS, Minn. - When tourists ask for the bathroom in the Minneapolis airport lately, it's usually not because they have to go.
It's because they want to see the stall made famous by U.S. Sen. Larry Craig's arrest in a sex sting

and now for something that caught my eye

On their way to Guatemala, Jon and Sally Westby of Minneapolis made a visit.

"We had to just stop and check out the bathroom," Sally said. "In fact, it's Jon's second time — he was here last week already."

no doubt, Jon was tapping his feet.

I'm thinking Rudy (if nominated) may surpise us with a VP candidate.
/Just a hunch.

OT

Islam means 'peace.' We don't have bombs buried in the cellar of the mosque. Aslam Qureshi, the imam (prayer leader) of Ja'me Masjid, a new mosque in Yokohama, saying that Japanese associate Muslims with terrorism because of biased images created by the media.

[Link: www.japantoday.com...]

PIMF!

...grounds to revoke...

re: #61 shanec99

True. I imagine moveon supporters digging an ever deepening hole. They've angered many people who do vote and with the internet they sure won't be able to hide or deny what they've said, come election time. Let them talk/rant/spew as they undermine the demonicrats at every step.

re: #69 The Other Les

What? Soros, nazi collaborator? Have you any sources for this? I gotta see this.

re: #62 cbinflux

Yes, this speaks to his short-comings as a Chief Executive.

Still, he understands well why we fight.

And that counts a lot.

Just sayin'.

re: #33 Killgore Trout

Never happen, of course. It’s a George Soros enterprise.But you go, John.

I'm feeling particularly contrary tonight. Do we really need stupid, impractical, over the top rhetoric like "Impeach Bush for war crimes" or "Throw Moveon.org out of the country"?
It's never gonna happen and contrary to current laws. Was the ad offensive? Yes. Does it require deportations? No.
I thought Rudy's response was adequate and didn't endorse curtailing freedom of speech. I expect more from our presidential candidates than pandering, unreasonable rhetoric. leave that to the Dems.

I have to say that's a timely post. I was feeling that way about Sean Hannity the other day. Instead of a reasoned response, he went right into his righteous indignation/condemnation. He looked silly.

I will forgive John McCain because I think he was just expressing his emotion. Probably didn't even plan to say it. But still, I hear what you are saying. The republicans need to stay sharp and use reasoned debate to beat the Dems at their own game. constant righteous indignation can back fire. A little goes a long way.

re: #77 shug

but but but dissent is patriotic

/

OK, OT but funny
Travelers ask to see Craig bathroom

MINNEAPOLIS, Minn. - When tourists ask for the bathroom in the Minneapolis airport lately, it's usually not because they have to go.
It's because they want to see the stall made famous by U.S. Sen. Larry Craig's arrest in a sex sting

and now for something that caught my eye

On their way to Guatemala, Jon and Sally Westby of Minneapolis made a visit.

"We had to just stop and check out the bathroom," Sally said. "In fact, it's Jon's second time — he was here last week already."

no doubt, Jon was tapping his feet.

Someone should put up a plaque.

John McCain has served this country on the front line with profound courage. That goes a long way in my book.

Any long serving Senator has a disadvantage in presidential elections in that all of their instances of bi-partisanship (or poor judgment) can easily be used against them in a primary.

re: #55 MeTooThen
I admire Sen McCain, he is an American hero.

Because I admire him does not mean that I cannot disagree with him on individual issues.

He like Jefferson are vary complex men with admirable qualities and flawed in some ways.

Jefferson had slaves, but believed that slavery was wrong, yet he must be regarded as among the greatest Americans.

John McCain, is human, flawed, but a tremendous American.

re: #73 Irene NYC

I made the same point less eloquently earlier. Thanks for your succinctness.
Is "succinctness" a word?

re: #34 ConservativeAtheist

I find this comment in the article most interesting, "The liberal advocacy group angered Republicans earlier this week with a full-page ad in the New York Times criticizing Gen. David Petraeus as he prepared to testify before Congress."

It is an interesting way to run a phrase. Apparently, Democrats are not bothered by this libel according to the author, who is obviously a tad biased.
The Democrat power base may not be bothered, but I know of more than a few mainstream Democrats around here that were flat out pissed off.

re: #77 shug

but but but dissent whining is patriotic

Fixed for accuracy. :)

OT, Chicago
Trial nears in Sears Tower terror case

To hear prosecutors tell it, Narseal Batiste and six followers formed a budding homegrown terrorist cell determined to rival the Sept. 11 attacks by toppling the Sears Tower in Chicago.

re: #37 paxnhymn

re: #32 Da_Beerfreak

re: #11 experiencedtraveller

re: #10 ted

Rudy/McCain '08 !

Why not?

Because the VP spot should go to one of the younger second string candidates like D Hunter or Huckabee to get them ready to run for President in 2012 or 2016. It would be a waste to give it to McCain or Fred.

naw. Hunter/Huckabee should be the ticket if we had the balls to go back to our conservative roots!

They're not ready for the big seat yet, get one of them in as VP. The main thing I like about Rudy is that he is willing to get down and fight. Too many gop'ers have lost the will to fight. Anyone who will not fight their enemy wherever they are found has lost the fight before it has even started. Nice guys not only finish last they get others killed too.

re: #88 Killgore Trout

Is "succinctness" a word?

Well, Killgore, if it's not I'll go eat some crabcakes, okay?

;)

re: #8 Lucius Septimius

re: #16 bikermailman

re: #45 Perplexed

re: #41 Outrider

re: #27 shanec99

And others...

I think there are "shoulds" and then there are "shoulds." If you're talking decency and patriotism, moveon.org should be thrown out of the country. If you're talking First Amendment, they should not be.

re: #84 FrogMarch

I hate Sean Hannity. He repeats himself ad naseum and just seems to want to regurgitate talking points.

Roger that on Moveon, big John, but I don't want 'em to leave... they're doing as much good for the GOP and conservative movement as any PR campaign.
In fact, I bet Karl was a major player in planting that ad in the NYT. (only mild sarc here... I guarantee you some kostards think just that).
Rove, you magnificent bastard!

I don't have a problem shutting Soros down. Campaign finance reform..
Soros has got to be breaking a law somewhere. How is it legal for him to pour millions into his politico-enterprises?

Is Soros even an American?

re: #59 Irene NYC

Hi irene, I'm fine. How are you?

re: #83 MeTooThen

We both honor his service.

re: #84 FrogMarch

I will forgive John McCain because I think he was just expressing his emotion. Probably didn't even plan to say it.

Ye s, he was speaking off the cuff, but that's part of the game. I think this is a gaff (although forgivable) instead of something to be celebrated.

Ralph Peters thinks Islam has been hi-jacked and that right wing nutjobs ( me ) are wrong for blaming Islam...I would bet money...he has never read a Koran.

'scuse me, haven't read the thread so apologies if someone has already posed this.

didn't McCain/Feingold create 527s? Isn't Moveon.org a 527?

correct me if I don't get it.

re: #93 Irene NYC

Crab may not be Kosher but crab in cake form is heresy!

re: #45 Perplexed

As reprehensible as moveon.org is to me how does McCain justify shutting them down? Something about that pesky First Amendment comes to mind. Freedom of speech requires some responsibilities that moveon folks haven't seen fit to do. That is the biggest issue I see (irresponsible/intemperate speech in time of war). Those of us who served and serve today protected the rights of those folks to say what they say without government intervention.

I will take some heat over this, but it is a First Amendment issue.

You won't take heat from me... That was a large part of my point in my #16. McCain squatted on that very First Amendment with McCain Feingold, and the speech part of the First Amendment was written to protect this very type of ugly unpopular speech. We conservatives go after those moveon types the old fashioned way, by shining the light of truth upon them, and let them scurry like the cockroaches they are. The idea of banning them because they say something we hate is a bad idea 1) because of the very brilliance of the First Amendment and 2) because as was said above, that sets an ugly precedent that allows government to do the same thing to us when the other side is in power.

Perplexed, you have my many thanks, both for serving, and for understanding why you serve.

re: #88 Killgore Trout

re: #73 Irene NYC

I made the same point less eloquently earlier. Thanks for your succinctness.
Is "succinctness" a word?

I don't know but brief is a word.

and it's succinct

:)

Killgore

succinctness

noun
terseness and economy in writing and speaking achieved by expressing a great deal in just a few words [syn: conciseness]

I'm still gonna have some crabcakes tho.
;)

re: #94 squarepeg

If you're talking First Amendment, they should not be.

I'm talking First Amendment. If it were up to me I would have treason charges brought against all of them at moveon including Soros.

re: #105 shug

My grammar stinks.

re: #28 FrogMarch

related:

Progress In Iraq Is A Real Big Problem For Democrats

h/t: insta and protein

Seriously - don't miss this!

A democrat admits that success in Iraq would hurt the Dems.

Islam Is Against Rioting, Says Abdullah

Sept 16 (Bernama) -- Islam rejects rioting which eventually causes damage to public property, said Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi.

General Patraeus had a great reply when asked about his feelings over MoveOn's ad at a press conference. He said he often keeps in mind the poem by Kipling, 'If'. Class act!

re: #108 Killgore Trout

what I have cannot even be classified as grammar

Killgore,

Heresy? Not always. I had the most heavenly crabcakes in Charleston. They were crab blended with crab rolled in a bit more crab. Couldn't stop eating them. And there are a couple of Japanese restaurants nearby that do wonderful crabcakes.

But, if you're talking about the ones with all those breadcrumbs and filler, I wholeheartedly agree.

So...is Ralph Peters right...Islam was hi-jacked?...or is Robert Spenser,Steve Emerson and Walid Shobat...among a score of others right...Islam is just Islam...I agree with Walid...the expert I trust.

re: #112 shug
grammarousness?
grammarorisity!

re: #94 squarepeg

re: #8 Lucius Septimius

re: #16 bikermailman

re: #45 Perplexed

re: #41 Outrider

re: #27 shanec99

And others...

I think there are "shoulds" and then there are "shoulds." If you're talking decency and patriotism, moveon.org should be thrown out of the country. If you're talking First Amendment, they should not be.

Which was part of my point -- unless they can be shown to have committed a crime, then there is nothing that can be done, no matter how obnoxious we think they are.

That said, if it turns out that some of the money that is being raised to support "peace" groups is being funneled to terrorists, or it can be shown that they are receiving money from our enemies, then a line has been crossed. Unfortunately, we don't have a great track record at prosecuting front groups -- the Nuclear Freeze thing was funded by the Soviets, but I don't recall any prosecutions even though the people who were organizing it were paid agents of the Soviet regime.

Perhaps McCain senses his inability to win (despite his recent increase in poll numbers) and is saying what many Americans are thinking.

Say what you will about W. but rarely does he show his anger, or react with fury.

Remarkable, this.

I don't know if it has been Bush's greatest strength or his worst weakness, but his quiet, sustained, and measured tone despite historical levels of animosity and constant attack are remarkable.

chicago,

if you make a billion trillion dollars cornering the riyal, I'll be your best friend, umkay?

re: #112 shug

Everyone of us has to have had a grammar.

re: #107 Perplexed

I don't guess being a moonbat is treason per se, but I know what is.. (or used to be)...and that is what Dennis Kucinich was doing in Syria. There must be some blanket Congressional immunity or somethin', because what he said and did there was treasonous as hell.

re: #107 Perplexed

We should never tamper with freedom of expression. If we tamper with another person's right to express himself, then we should not be surprised when those others tamper with ours if they find themselves in power.

Let them chat, let them scream, and let the whole nation hear them. Does anyone remember what happened to Dean with his screaming?

We can debate them, and we will never lose. The logic of our position will always be more convincing and acceptable to reasonable people than the vulgar stupidity of theirs.

re: #100 Killgore Trout

re: #84 FrogMarch

I will forgive John McCain because I think he was just expressing his emotion. Probably didn't even plan to say it.

Ye s, he was speaking off the cuff, but that's part of the game. I think this is a gaff (although forgivable) instead of something to be celebrated.

I agree. Still, after years of getting kicked in the teeth by the dems and not fighting back, I think the positive here is the display of a willingness to fight for principles. We are going to need to fight the left-wing machine. We may screw up a few times, but I 'd rather fight than pussy out.

I'm tired tonight. I'm all over the place. Please excuse me.
:)

I'm voting for Rudy, but Rudy likes McCain, so he can't be all bad.

re: #76 chicagodudewhotrades

Nice, found a couple nice homes for a few tomahawks did you?

re: #119 Perplexed

Everyone of us has to have had a grammar.

That would be:

Every one of us has to have had a grammar.
;)

re: #121 shanec99

re: #107 Perplexed

We should never tamper with freedom of expression. If we tamper with another person's right to express himself, then we should not be surprised when those others tamper with ours if they find themselves in power.

Let them chat, let them scream, and let the whole nation hear them. Does anyone remember what happened to Dean with his screaming?

We can debate them, and we will never lose. The logic of our position will always be more convincing and acceptable to reasonable people than the vulgar stupidity of theirs.

So true.

re: #118 Irene NYC

Irene, next time you go out for Crabcakes, i'll be your best friend. Looks like you found some good ones

re: #16 bikermailman

Very, very well-said!

re: #113 Irene NYC

Crabcakes in the PacNW are atrocious monstrosities of egg and stale crab meat and not a hint of Old Bay seafood seasoning. Blasphemy, I tell you!

re: #114 storagemanager

So...is Ralph Peters right...Islam was hi-jacked?...

Umm, no, that'd be the Islamists that did the hijacking.

re: #114 storagemanager

So...is Ralph Peters right...Islam was hi-jacked?...or is Robert Spenser,Steve Emerson and Walid Shobat...among a score of others right...Islam is just Islam...I agree with Walid...the expert I trust.

Islam was "hijacked" in the cave of Hira.

re: #121 shanec99

I am in 100% agreement with you on that issue.

re: #123 insanity police

I'm voting for Rudy, but Rudy likes McCain, so he can't be all bad.

Duncan Hunter made a stand yesterday...he stood for the troops...the peace freaks will use it against him...but he took a moral stand.
...I will not forget...watching his camp now.

re: #55 MeTooThen

John McCain is an exceedingly complex man.

There is no doubt whatsoever that he suffered immeasurably at the hands of the North Vietnamese and despite his horrific ordeal he never lost his sense of humanity or his deep and abiding love of country.

John McCain is an American Hero.

He is also unpredictable, and seemingly easy to anger, and often seen as an opportunist as a politician.

So be it.

His biggest negative for Republicans seem to be his position on Amnesty and his lack of Chief Executive experience.

My vote now is with Rudy, but McCain for VP seems like a potential winner.

Just sayin'.

I can agree with a lot of what you say. However, the Shamnesty issue was just the last straw that did him in. He didn't really stand a chance with the base before his allying with Ted Kennedy and La Raza (that's The Race) to write the immigration bill. There was McCain-Feingold, which trashed the First Amendment, there was opposition to tax cuts, there was his 'help' with the 'gang of 14' that hurt us on judges, both at the Supreme Court, and the Circuit courts, he declared war on the Evangelicals in 2000 (some in here will agree with that, but they are a large part of the base). The only place he really had a chance for the nomination was in the MSM's mind. Problem is, the Republican base decides that, not the left leaning-over MSM.

I'm tappin' out.
/Later Lizards

re: #131 Syrah

Islam is the hijacking of the worship of Allah.

Are any Dimocrats even eligible for the Presidency this year? For that matter, maybe they should all be removed from office immediately and winged into the pen. That would give MoveOn something to talk about for the next 14 months.

Amendment XIV Section 3:

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

re: #69 The Other Les

Someone really needs to look into the Soros' background. If he really did collaborate with the Nazis as some people have claimed then that would be grounds revoke his status as a US citizen and deport him.

It would also put a stop to his direct funding of political groups here in the US.

George Soros On Helping Nazis During Holocaust - partial transcript, 60 Minutes interview, Dec 20, 1998.

re: #129 Killgore Trout

When you're in NYC I'll treat you to crabcakes, you poor dear.

re: #71 storagemanager

Thanks. I do vaguely recall those articles now. They're no longer available at the NY Post.

Just me, but I think Spencer is overreacting. My recollection is that Peters agrees with what I heard Daniel Pipes say (with my own ears, in person): that America's moderate Muslims (I know, I know, I'm getting to that) are key to our fight against Islamic extremism.

By "moderate Muslims," Pipes seems to mean Muslims such as that -- hell, what is his name? -- Jasser something -- anyway, Muslims who, whatever they claim as their faith, just ain't buyin' this jihad s***. I call those people non-Muslims myself, or perhaps MINOs. I'd like to know if that's what Peters has in mind.

Anyway, I like Peters's writings about Petraeus, Iraq, and McCain. It might turn out that I violently disagree with him about Islamic extremism, but I imagine it would be a principled disagreement and he's operating in good faith.

Calgary jurors excused for potential anti-Muslim bias
Muslims seethe

Muslim Council of Calgary president Nagah Hage said he was surprised and disturbed it was deemed necessary to ask the question.

"Do they ask anybody else that (question), based on religion?" he asked.

"If you're up on murder or some other charge, religion doesn't have to come into that. We're confident in this justice system in Canada. . . . Racism exists everywhere. It doesn't mean all white people are racist."

The race and religion question was put before 76 people, called from a pool of about 240 prospective jurors. Three admitted the man's background would affect their ability to remain unbiased. They were dismissed, along with four others who had direct or familial connections with either the victim or witnesses scheduled to testify.

re: #124 formercorpsman

In training only. Never fired them in anger

Would that be all 3 million of MoveOn's membership?

re: #143 chicagodudewhotrades

Green Navy most of my time. 89-93.

re: #132 Perplexed

Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ.

Which category do we fall into?

lol.

I think it's a rather inane position to take on the issue, just say you hate it. Don't bind yourself to any strange terminology or reference like "thrown out of the country." A stronger point to make would have been the fact that they take advantage of the right to freedom of speech whilst attacking the one whose job it is to guard it for them, but that's what the spin staff is for (which he is kinda lacking). Regardless though, Senator McCain is my best friend (even if he doesn't know it) I really do hope things come together for him.

re: #141 squarepeg

re: #71 storagemanager

Thanks. I do vaguely recall those articles now. They're no longer available at the NY Post.

Just me, but I think Spencer is overreacting. My recollection is that Peters agrees with what I heard Daniel Pipes say (with my own ears, in person): that America's moderate Muslims (I know, I know, I'm getting to that) are key to our fight against Islamic extremism.

By "moderate Muslims," Pipes seems to mean Muslims such as that -- hell, what is his name? -- Jasser something -- anyway, Muslims who, whatever they claim as their faith, just ain't buyin' this jihad s***. I call those people non-Muslims myself, or perhaps MINOs. I'd like to know if that's what Peters has in mind.

Anyway, I like Peters's writings about Petraeus, Iraq, and McCain. It might turn out that I violently disagree with him about Islamic extremism, but I imagine it would be a principled disagreement and he's operating in good faith.

You can not win a war...unless you have a named enemy...otherwise you are fighting a ghost.

re: #141 squarepeg

Anyway, I like Peters's writings about Petraeus, Iraq, and McCain. It might turn out that I violently disagree with him about Islamic extremism, but I imagine it would be a principled disagreement and he's operating in good faith.

I'm a Peter fan myself. Given that he speaks lots of languages and has traveled to a zillion countries and lived abroad for decades, I'd say he is pretty well informed. And he was calling for a Petraeus practically since the beginning of the war.

Did you know he's written a ton of books (fiction)?

re: #144 ChenZhen

Chen, I won't berate you.

Give an honest answer about what you think about their ad they ran, the discount, etc.

I'm being serious.

re: #82 NoSpam

re: #69 The Other Les

What? Soros, nazi collaborator? Have you any sources for this? I gotta see this.

IIRC, it's even in his own book. He was a teenager, and he did what he had to survive. (he was a Jew...certainly isn't now...he's selling them out just like he is America) Not making excuses for him, that's just what I recall, that it's in his own biography, by his own words.

As the election nears the hyperbole of Moronveon.org and its supporters will intensify. More very silly looking people will march to nowhere in particular chanting very silly slogans and otherwise demonstrating the detrimental effects of continued drug use.

The Demoncrats will continue to pander to this base "base" even though they realize that this bloc of potential voters is barking mad.

The Republicans need a solid candidate who can keep his head while the Dems are loosing theirs.

At this point, for me, it's either Rudy or Fred.

re: #146 shanec99

re: #132 Perplexed

Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ.

Which category do we fall into?

lol.

Well, if you talk to my first wife then I'm a fool. If you talk to the present wife then I've got a great mind. Depends on your point of view.

re: #134 bikermailman

I can't argue with you.

Campaign Finance Reform.

Gang of 14.

Amnesty.

All deal-breakers for much of the Republican voters.

Not so for the so-called Independents and many conservative Democrats (yes, there are some.)

Anyway, I won't vote for him for President, but I can understand why someone would or won't.

Just sayin'.

re: #88 Killgore Trout

re: #73 Irene NYC

I made the same point less eloquently earlier. Thanks for your succinctness.
Is "succinctness" a word?

It is now.

Why is Duncan Hunter out?...please tell me.

re: #95 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Oh, how lovely, another Hannity-hater! I think he's a whiney, know-nothing, sanctimonious, partisan hack.

re: #153 Perplexed

Let us not bring ex-wives into this.

re: #152 USBeast

As the election nears the hyperbole of Moronveon.org and its supporters will intensify. More very silly looking people will march to nowhere in particular chanting very silly slogans and otherwise demonstrating the detrimental effects of continued drug use.

The Demoncrats will continue to pander to this base "base" even though they realize that this bloc of potential voters is barking mad.

The Republicans need a solid candidate who can keep his head while the Dems are loosing theirs.

At this point, for me, it's either Rudy or Fred.

Im with you on that.

Any Republican (except for that Ron Paul thing).

By what would one grab a moveon.org by which to throw it?

re: #160 ChristianRepublic

By what would one grab a moveon.org by which to throw it?

The dot.

The Clinton's are up to their eyeballs in corruption. This one is very odd.

'Night all. Got an early morning flight to Boston and a several hour drive to a customer site tomorrow.

re: #160 ChristianRepublic

By what would one grab a moveon.org by which to throw it?

Grab it by its moveon.organ?

re: #157 squarepeg

Why, please elaborate.

I find him interesting and principled.

Don't always agree with him, but he seems reasonable to me.

I absolutely love what he is doing for the kids of slain Service Men and Women.

He is a Great American, imperfect, human, but principled unlike many of his detractors.

Malaysia

THE designer hijab (headscarf or veil) and abaya (the Arab black long robe) are simply gorgeous. Well, yes, they cost a bomb, but these are “proper” Islamic wear. So can a Muslim add them to her wardrobe?

“Such was the state of affairs in the Islamic society 14 centuries ago, at its purest period, before decline started to set in,” he said.

Islam also states that men have a responsibility towards women. Dr al-Khayat added this was because women have been accorded the ability to give birth.

“Men are caretakers. They take care of the women. But this does not mean dominance or superiority over women,” he stressed.

Most Americans don't know the first thing about Eli Pariser or the founders of MoveOn, who are horrible, despicable people. Eli hates the US, worships the UN and wants the US to be subservient to it. And the founders of MoveOn - don't even get me started.

So let them open their big mouths and show the American public what they're really all about. I can't wait for more of this to get out.

Sorry, folks. Move.On doesn't get tossed. That's so un-American.

Tossing McCain, as a presidential candidate, sure. And, soon enough, it will get done. The man practically makes Hillary "electable."

So you don't like the ladies in pink?

Neither do I. But where would all our pig jokes go, if they were gone? This is still a free country. And, McCain can shove Feingold, too. Two losers.

re: #164 ConservativeAtheist

Only with steel reinforced industrial strength rubber gloves and a HasMat suit.

3:10 to Yuma is just a dumb movie...but it tells the story of a man...who must do something...just because it is right...not for money or power...he risk his life for an idea...this country was founded that way...I will vote for the man that makes a stand...even if it means losing...selling out to win...is not winning.

re: #157 squarepeg

re: #95 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Oh, how lovely, another Hannity-hater! I think he's a whiney, know-nothing, sanctimonious, partisan hack.

I don't hate him. Not a fan, either. He could do a little more homework from time to time. He's too superficial. Sometimes I can handle Hannity and colmes after a debate. Still better than the biased alphabet channels.

re: #144 ChenZhen

Would that be all 3 million of MoveOn's membership?

Is that kind of like the 8 million muslims in America?

re: #144 ChenZhen

Dues paying MoveOns, three million.
Sounds like the same source that claims Muslims compose ten to twelve percent of the US population...

re: #169 USBeast

heh.

re: #144 ChenZhen

Would that be all 3 million of MoveOn's membership?

Nah, just the rabble-rousers. Starting with you.

re: #172 bikermailman

(wow, a two-second cosmic collision)
:)
If I'd known, I'd have deleted mine...

However many million MoveOn claims is probably true. They raise a ton of money and the east and west coasts largest cities are about 80% MoveOn territory.

Where's his whorish sockpuppet? 5 4 3 2 ...

re: #105 shug

re: #88 Killgore Trout

re: #73 Irene NYC

I made the same point less eloquently earlier. Thanks for your succinctness.
Is "succinctness" a word?

I don't know but brief is a word.

and it's succinct

:)

why use a big word when a diminuitive one will do?

/lol

Duncan Hunter made a stand...with a small crowd of 1,000 he made a stand yesterday...I will not forget.

re: #173 tradewind

Surely there cannot be 3 million adults in America who believe that the men and women who volunteer to serve and protect the nation and put themselves in harms way would betray us.

I will not believe that there are 3 million members of move on.

re: #149 Irene NYC

Irene, I am aware of his fiction, but I haven't read any of it. I'm a real fuddy-duddy about fiction. With a few exceptions, I've read very little stuff written post-1900. I always catch Peters's columns, though.

re: #149 Irene NYC

re: #141 squarepeg

Anyway, I like Peters's writings about Petraeus, Iraq, and McCain. It might turn out that I violently disagree with him about Islamic extremism, but I imagine it would be a principled disagreement and he's operating in good faith.

I'm a Peter fan myself. Given that he speaks lots of languages and has traveled to a zillion countries and lived abroad for decades, I'd say he is pretty well informed. And he was calling for a Petraeus practically since the beginning of the war.

Did you know he's written a ton of books (fiction)?

Check this essay at the Army War College by Peters,
Rolling Back Radical Islam

re: #139 abolitionist

re: #69 The Other Les

Someone really needs to look into the Soros' background. If he really did collaborate with the Nazis as some people have claimed then that would be grounds revoke his status as a US citizen and deport him.

It would also put a stop to his direct funding of political groups here in the US.

George Soros On Helping Nazis During Holocaust - partial transcript, 60 Minutes interview, Dec 20, 1998.

The Left can OWN George Nazi Soros
The left can OWN MoveON.org

and 20% of the population is Happy GAY

re: #173 tradewind

re: #144 ChenZhen

Dues paying MoveOns, three million.
Sounds like the same source that claims Muslims compose ten to twelve percent of the US population...

re: #181 shanec99

I will not believe that there are 3 million members of move on.

NYC must have millions. I kid you not.

re: #177 Irene NYC
I don't think so, not actual members. If those figures were correct, they'd be able to scrounge together a decent march and so far, big fizzles compared to predicted numbers most anywhere.
I could be wrong now... but I don't think so.

re: #144 ChenZhen

Geeesh. I've only asked this twice now... Are you Mr. QuestionMan? Do you ever answer any? I'll accept the pat answer, BTW.

re: #150 formercorpsman

I didn't really read the ad in it's entirety. I'm responding to McCain's comment.

What's kind of ironic here is the fact that McCain/Feingold is one of the reasons why MoveOn became so large and influential (the way I understood it).

And I've never understood why people have called it a 'Soros' enterprise. Sure, he's donated to the group, but not as much as other individuals. It hardly makes it his 'enterprise' though.

Drudge has a link up to Vincente Fox's new book. In this book he claims "Bush is the cocky-est guy he ever met. And, he didn't believe he was electable.

Well, that's the good news.

The bad news was that Dubya knew the levers to press; and by a miracle, Algore was a worse candidate in 2000. His luck held. He ran against John Kerry in 2004. (No, Howie Dean would'a been better.)

But you win contests when those who come up against you are losers.

But the republican party, now, is in disarray. And, if the Bonkeys can't cure their problems, they're gonna field someone "beatable."

Let's hope the republicans lose interest in 51/49. And, go for the gold.

Maybe, that's why we haven't given up hope?

We haven't, ya know. Because we're paying attention.

re: #181 shanec99

re: #173 tradewind

Surely there cannot be 3 million adults in America who believe that the men and women who volunteer to serve and protect the nation and put themselves in harms way would betray us.

I will not believe that there are 3 million members of move on.

There might well, though, be 3 million people who have at some point signed something or even donated money.

Just because people have signed on doesn't mean they have the foggiest idea what the organization is about.

re: #129 Killgore Trout

re: #113 Irene NYC

Crabcakes in the PacNW are atrocious monstrosities of egg and stale crab meat and not a hint of Old Bay seafood seasoning. Blasphemy, I tell you!

I shudder. All I get here are these doughy things with just enough crab to be quite unable to taste it. Now when my grandfather would take us out to the shipping canals to catch crabs—then we had good crabcakes.

Do we vote for who can win?...or who we trust and admire...are we no better than moonbats?...take a stand...look in the mirror and say..I made a stand...thats why we post here...we don't sell out.

re: #181 shanec99
Well, no, I don't either.
Consider the source, and chalk it up to 'fake but accurate'.

re: #164 ConservativeAtheist

re: #160 ChristianRepublic

By what would one grab a moveon.org by which to throw it?

Grab it by its moveon.organ?

LOL! Very clever. (I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole.)

re: #23 song_and_dance_man

re: #6 Da_Beerfreak

McCain lost me when he start to attack the First Amendment.

Right on. He tag teamed with Findgold to chip away at the 1st Amendment. I'm still pissed that Bush signed this hammer against the Constitution, but in a small way I was pleased that the ludicrous two at best got a very early morning Rose Garden signing snubbing for this shameful legislation. Still this is one of those moments when I began to question the POTUS and became critical of him here at LGF while many stood firm for the W. And boy did I catch a fair amount of hell for even hinting that Bush may not be the most sound president domestically.

Made me question the supreme courts logic too.

re: #189 ChenZhen

Wow. Enlightenment. The Oracle speaks.

I didn't really read the ad in it's entirety...

You hung (apparently) on every word that McCain said, but haven't bothered to read what he responded to. Poor English on my part, but you do read ENGLISH, right?

re: #182 squarepeg

Ralph Peters wrote a pretty good fictional account of the Soviets invading the Nato countries back in the 1980's. I read that as a teen. It was written from the soviet point of view. I think it was called 'Red Army'?

re: #189 ChenZhen
To use their marching mantra, He bought 'em, He owns 'em.

re: #191 Lucius Septimius
Point taken.

You may well be right. I defer to you on this issue, but the implications are worrisome.

re: #179 Kirly

superfluous curtailment is superlative

re: #189 ChenZhen

Semantics.

re: #197 Cap'n DOC

Just part of his MO

re: #153 Perplexed

re: #146 shanec99

re: #132 Perplexed

Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ.

Which category do we fall into?

lol.

Well, if you talk to my first wife then I'm a fool. If you talk to the present wife then I've got a great mind. Depends on your point of view.

LMAO! Now waitaminit...that sounds suspiciously like the moral relatavism of the left. Kind of like Keith Olberdork and his saying that Rudy said all but "If you don't vote for me, I'll kill you."

I am still a zero...lol

MOF - What the McCain said and what the ad said is like comparing Dollars to DogNuts.

re: #199 tradewind

Soros and Progressive Insurance's owner are major contributors.

re: #189 ChenZhen

Moronveon.org is not "large and influential". It is inflated and obnoxious.

re: #181 shanec99

Out of a population of 300 million plus? Yes, 3 million's more than possible.

I know that's not a happy thought. But, yes, it's possible.

re: #157 squarepeg

re: #95 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Oh, how lovely, another Hannity-hater! I think he's a whiney, know-nothing, sanctimonious, partisan hack.

I'm not really a hater, I just think he's a flat-out horrible debater, and he won't let anyone who's not kissing his, or his side's, butt speak. That's why I usually listen to Medved or Dennis Miller during that timeslot.

re: #204 bikermailman

Hmmm... interesting how the folks in the major media houses frame things isnt it?

They make me smile.

re: #200 shanec99

You never can lose money betting on human stupidity.

More serious, though, is the issue of misrepresentation. ANSWER loves to talk publicly about all their "progressive" ideas about war and poverty, etc., but they are less open (at least at marches and on campuses) about their Stalinist roots. MoveOn attracts lots of starry-eyed 19 year olds who think being anti-war is sooo coool, but wouldn't think of even reading the website closely to find out the full range of their program.

I would suspect that the vast majority -- 70% or more -- of that number genuinely has no idea what MoveOn.Org does besides "supporting progressive ideas."

Pentagon planners have developed a list of up to 2,000 bombing targets in Iran, amid growing fears among serving officers that diplomatic efforts to slow Iran's nuclear weapons programme are doomed to fail.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

re: #138 goodbye_natalie

Are any Dimocrats even eligible for the Presidency this year? For that matter, maybe they should all be removed from office immediately and winged into the pen. That would give MoveOn something to talk about for the next 14 months.

Amendment XIV Section 3:

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

I like your thinking. While it was written to punish those who fought for the south, it isn't that specific.

re: #184 FrogMarch

The Left can OWN George Nazi Soros
The left can OWN MoveON.org

I think that may be a bit backward. BTW, Soros has been a big financial supporter of the Clintons, and of Obama.

re: #187 tradewind

tradewind,

Maybe not all dues paying but come election time they raise funds, host parties, clamor on the streets, and make their voices heard. They have plenty of allies throughout the city and they all make common cause. Manhattan votes nearly 100% democratic.

Geeesh. I'm terrible tonight. Try this again...

What Sen. McCain said and what the Soros ad said is like comparing Dollars to DogNuts.

re: #165 shanec99

Shane, I definitely admire his work for the families of slain military. However:

1 - Hannity was totally suckered by Arnold Schwarzenegger, when more perspicacious conservatives (Rush Limbaugh, John Ziegler) had pegged him as a phoney. Sean just ain't that smart.

2 - I'm irritated as hell by his sanctimony. That's just my style, I suppose. I prefer hard-bitten skepticism.

3 - He was an idiot on the Schiavo case. "I saw her move! I saw it! She's thinking! She can feel!" Whatever you think about that case, his claims were idiotic. I remember he had an expert on who was trying patiently to make a medical point, and he kept on shouting "I DON'T CARE!" Why did he get the person on his show?

4 - I think he was an idiot on the Larry Craig case. I thought his attempt to cancel the case against Craig was undefined and unprincipled. "I just want to do a careful, discerning examination of this . . ." I bet if someone had asked him, "Discern what? What do you want to discern?" he wouldn't have had an answer.

Those are the things I can think of for now. Practically every time I turn him on (he's the only thing on talk radio from noon to three in my radiation zone) he says something that strikes me as simplistic. A GREAT talker is one I mentioned above -- John Ziegler, streaming from KFI640 AM 7-10 p.m. PST weekdays. I was delighted to hear him one night say that Hannity is an idiot.

re: #193 storagemanager
There's a variation of the Great One Ronald Reagan's statement ' Trust but Verify' that applies here... something like ' Admire but run the numbers re electability'.
When the Clintons' USSC nominees are seated, you'll always have your electoral integrity for comfort.
Just saying.

re: #209 Dianna

302,891,817
but who's counting?
;-)

re: #168 Carol Herman

You bring up a wonderful point. The use of the 'un' American vs 'anti' American. Throwing moveon or their protesting, chanting, pogostick-hopping goofy-assed fools out is unAmerican. What those protesting, chanting, pogostick-hopping goofy-assed fools do, is antiAmerican.

re: #183 Da_Beerfreak

I have, along with all his other essays. Peters really knows what he's talking about.

re: #219 tradewind

re: #193 storagemanager
There's a variation of the Great One Ronald Reagan's statement ' Trust but Verify' that applies here... something like ' Admire but run the numbers re electability'.
When the Clintons' USSC nominees are seated, you'll always have your electoral integrity for comfort.
Just saying.

So...you don't think...there are enough honest people to vote with the heart...telling...no offence...but telling.

MoveOn
Formation 1998
Membership 3.3 million [citation needed]

re: #156 storagemanager

I like Duncan Hunter... but to answer your question, read Marshall McLuhan on the medium and the messagee. Hunter is too' hot ' a persona for television, unfortunately, as is (on the other side) Al Gore, only in that case, thank heavens.
Anyway, that is part of it. I know it doesn't seem fair, but there it is.

AlGore wins emmy

re: #183 Da_Beerfreak

Thanks!

storemanager, you might want to read it, too.

re: #212 Lucius Septimius

You know, there is an appropriate description for 19 year old college students who drink too much, smoke too much pot, and end up in tertiary institutions like UC Berkley.

Young, dumb and full of cum.

If there were ever justification for mandatory military service for young people as a means of instilling patriotism, then their conduct are providing the perfect argument.

After he gets MoveOn out, then maybe he will work on all those illegal aliens.

/sarc

re: #176 tradewind

re: #172 bikermailman

(wow, a two-second cosmic collision)
:)
If I'd known, I'd have deleted mine...

GMTA...and so do ours... :P

re: #226 cbinflux

what for? He did a movie , not a TV show

re: #228 shanec99

re: #212 Lucius Septimius

You know, there is an appropriate description for 19 year old college students who drink too much, smoke too much pot, and end up in tertiary institutions like UC Berkley.

Young, dumb and full of cum.

If there were ever justification for mandatory military service for young people as a means of instilling patriotism, then their conduct are providing the perfect argument.

Gross. I think I heard that line in a rap song.

You go, John...
AubreyJ...

re: #218 squarepeg

I have to agree on Hannity. Call it self-importance, call it ego, but there's something about him that rubs me the wrong way. I also don't like the bit on his show when he plays calls from "angry liberals" yelling at him. Of course, why would they call into his line and yell at him if he wasn't doing a great job? It seems unprofessional, something Rush would never do (along with a lot of other somewhat childish gimmicks), and it's another reason why I have so much respect and admiration for how much of a professional Rush is. Sure, he makes egotistical comments, but it's quite clearly tongue-in-cheek and intended to be humorous. There's just something enjoyable and engaging about listening to Rush's show. I realize his style isn't for everyone, but I love it.

The thing that the left fails perceive is how hard it is to maintain Pax Americana without going Empire. Politically it's a dangerous tightrope dance along razor wire.

re: #189 ChenZhen

After the terrorist attacks of September 11 2001, the founders of MoveOn started a petition against a military response. Eventually, this led to them working on behalf of Eli Pariser's similar 9-11peace.org petition.[5] Pariser later joined MoveOn and serves as its executive director today.

Well, considering its position after 9/11 was that we should just bend over and take it, and say "thank you Allah, PBUH", I could really give a shit what creeps are running it and who is financing it.
They are cowards.
They need to be defeated and destroyed and their legacy should be that of every traitorous coward that dared to darken the earth from Benedict Arnold to Dr Mudd.

re: #180 storagemanager

Duncan Hunter made a stand...with a small crowd of 1,000 he made a stand yesterday...I will not forget.

I was proud to see that too. Not a doubt in my mind it had nothing to do with being a Candidate, but because it was heartfelt. Still, woulda been nice to see some of the other candidates out there.

re: #191 Lucius Septimius
I tend to doubt the 3 million donor claim. Counting unique donors to any organization is a tricky business and with Moveon.org being primarily web-based fundraising, I would guess they use e-mail address as their unique identifier in their database. People change e-mail addresses fairly quickly these days, especially in Moveon's primary demographic: the 20-30 year-olds. I would venture to guess that if a donor makes three gifts during the course of the year, each time using a different email address, they would count that person as three donors rather than just one.

re: #218 squarepeg

Who among us is perfect or always right?

He may be wrong on some things, you and I are too.

Cut him some slack my friend, I believe he is right more frequently than he is wrong.

Moveon.morons...I haven`t seen a bigger group of misfits and dimwitted idiots under one tent since the Carter administration.

re: #226 cbinflux

And a big hand for the brilliant inventor Algore, without whom this very site and the current comment ratings debate would not be possible.

/sarcasm

re: #189 ChenZhen

And I've never understood why people have called it a 'Soros' enterprise. Sure, he's donated to the group, but not as much as other individuals. It hardly makes it his 'enterprise' though.

Besides Peter Lewis, care to tell me who has donated as much to your favorite organization MoveOn General?

re: #222 Irene NYC

re: #183 Da_Beerfreak

I have, along with all his other essays. Peters really knows what he's talking about.

IMHO That is the "real" Peters. (In the War College essays. He knows how to fight.)

I will vote my heart...good night..stay safe.

re: #216 Irene NYC

That's what happens when a city lays on the feed bag and puts out the amnesty word: They change the inscription to ' Give Us your tired whiners, your poorly educated, your befuddled asses learning to eat free'.

re: #232 insanity police

Please forgive me if I offended you.

re: #238 valkyrie

Wasn't MoveOn connected to Dean's presidential bid? I was thinking that a lot of those "members" were in fact Dean supporters and nothing more.

re: #223 storagemanager
That's not at all what I think, nor is it at all what I said.

re: #29 goodbye_natalie

If Rudy is smart, he'll get the most popular southern "Conservative" he can grab for the V.P. Assuming Rudy wins the nomination, if he takes a liberal or even a moderate as his running mate, he will have a very difficult time getting many Conservatives to even cast a vote and Republicans don't win without their base enthused. That I am sure of...and I believe that to be the one strategy Rudy can lose the election.

And John McCain is not that man...

Take a Mike Huckabee or Duncan Hunter (though he's not Southern), two states that will be in play during the election.

Dunno really how conservative Huck is ... read the latest piece on 'im at NR. 'Specially on taxes ... not so sure. I still think Fred is much more conservative, tho ploome has me wonderin' bout his basic character and legitimacy. Hey -- what's Richardson like on taxes? What about Rudy/Bill Richardson?

re: #246 shanec99

re: #232 insanity police

Please forgive me if I offended you.

You didn't. I'm not easily offended. No sweat.

re: #227 squarepeg

re: #183 Da_Beerfreak

Thanks!

storemanager, you might want to read it, too.

You are welcomed. There is a lot of good stuff at the War College, one can spend weeks reading over there.

re: #242 goodbye_natalie

I bet Rosie and Babs, Alec and Sean are in there for a few bucks.

re: #234 ranchodelcielo

Oh, and the way he "asks questions" as more of an opportunity to make long statements (like Dhimmicrats in a confirmation hearing) on H&C makes it almost unwatchable.

re: #215 abolitionist

Yeah. He is one of those evil crooked cheating capitalists that the left wing Bolsheviks supposedly hate so much.
But obviously, as all things left "spit wing", all these positions are negotiable if you support their "progressive" fascism.
At its heart, progressivism is a fraud.

re: #252 tradewind

re: #242 goodbye_natalie

I bet Rosie and Babs, Alec and Sean are in there for a few bucks.

And I wouldn't be surprised if they require their employees and entourage to chip in some as well.

re: #231 chicagodudewhotrades

[Link: www.tvweek.com...]

re: #195 MandyManners

re: #164 ConservativeAtheist

re: #160 ChristianRepublic

By what would one grab a moveon.org by which to throw it?

Grab it by its moveon.organ?

LOL! Very clever. (I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole.)

I wouldn't touch it with YOUR ex's ten foot pole.

re: #252 tradewind

Probably. But not to the tune of the initial $2.5 million startup. That's what George and Peter ponied up - and that's just for starters.

re: #255 Lucius Septimius

LOL. Kind of like United Way at the office.

This is a great discussion, but you all need to see the vid in the next thread. :)

That said, I am checking out for the night, researching something I found on internet haganah.

Parting story from Pakistan:

Step-brother raped girl ‘on his father’s behest’

* Mother says raped girl’s stepfather wanted to take over her house
By Shafiq Sharif

LAHORE: “My 12-year-old daughter was raped by her step-brother in order to acquire my house,” said mother of a girl (S) who was raped by her step-brother five days ago in Asif Town in Nishtar Colony police precinct “in a property dispute”, Daily Times learnt on Sunday.

No arrested have been made so far. The victim’s mother Amna, a resident of Asif Town-2 Ferozepur Road, Nishtar Colony, said that she had married one Abdul Majeed after the death of her first husband Muhammad Shahbaz several years ago. She said Majeed was already married and had three children including Yaseen (19) from his first wife.

She said that Majeed had been living in a rented house and used to visit her house. She said, “Majeed’s son Yaseen also used to visit her house.” On Sep 11, when I was at my workplace, Majeed, his first wife Sabiran and Yaseen entered my house, she said. She said my daughter (S), a student of class five, was at home along with her two younger brothers. Majeed and Sabiran had sent my two sons to a nearby market to buy some essentials. After that, she said, Sabiran and Majeed had also left the house leaving behind Yaseen and my daughter at home. “Yaseen after tying my daughter raped her and fled from the scene.” She said. “Locals after hearing my daughter’s screams gathered outside my house and rushed her to Farooq Hospital where doctors refused to admit her.” She said (S) was later rushed to the Lahore General Hospital where she was treated.

She said that Majeed had threatened her several times and asked for the house’s documents. She said she had refused to give Majeed the documents. She said about a year ago Majeed had abducted her son and asked her to get the house transferred in his name. She said that when her neighbours had intervened Majeed returned her son after four months. She said on Sunday Majeed had threatened her on the telephone to kidnap her daughter. Investigation Officer sub inspector Saeed said that according to the initial medical reports the girl was raped. He said the accused were still at large, but the police would arrest them soon. He said that the police had raided on various places but to no avail.

re: #189 ChenZhen

I can't argue, it is brutally ironic given his motivation that created this in the first place.

I think most people see it as a Soros enterprise, because he IS responsible for funding massive amounts of money to mainly far left wing causes, such as the defense of Lynn Stewart in 2002.

In all honesty, the biggest issue I think we have at hand here, is the fact that a group like moveon was given a huge discount, especially given the ad price if it is anyone else, who they were targeting, and the message.

They tarnished by every account, a very honorable man, at the head of operations in the middle of a war zone. This works it's way down the line, until it reaches the E1 out in Ramadi, struggling for very own life on a daily basis.

There was a time, when we had our own in theater, in harms way, that despite our differences, ideology, you name it, we left it at the door if it had any potential negative effect on those serving.

Moveon does care about the troops.

They never have. They want clout, political power to force their ideology on those who have heard the message and are not convinced, and therefore don't vote for who they support.

Chenzen, what moveon did was wrong.

It was wrong.