An embarrassment

Fine. So where does it end? What happens when 30 or 40 unstable Muslim nations all have nukes pointed in every which direction?

Still think America can deter all of 'em?

I could live with a radioactive Iran.

No reason to -1 the article, though. Better to have this exposed.

tell this to Israel, Abizaid

“Iran is not a suicide nation,”

the people in general may not be but...

Saudis are scared of a shi’i nuclear regime, maybe they will bomb Tehran.

Maybe we could live with a nuclear Iran, maybe not. Why take the chance?

Hmmm, Abizaid leaves and the situation in Iraq starts improving.

Coincidence?

“they may have some people in charge that don’t appear to be rational, but I doubt that the Iranians intend to attack us with a nuclear weapon.”

What could possibly go wrong?

The good General thinks the crazies in charge of Iran are like the Russians of the cold war era.

At least the Russians loved their children.

Let’s face it, we lived with a nuclear Soviet Union, we’ve lived with a nuclear China, and we’re living with (other) nuclear powers as well.

Yea, and the Soviet Union and China weren't and aren't ruled by people who love death more than life.

“Iran is not a suicide nation,” he said. “I mean, they may have some people in charge that don’t appear to be rational, but I doubt that the Iranians intend to attack us with a nuclear weapon.”

Earth to Abizaid: The man with the button is a freaking psychopath who wants to die. He's repeatedly stated his goal to wipe Israel off of the earth.

Every effort should be made to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, but failing that, the world could live with a nuclear-armed regime in Tehran, a recently retired commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East said Monday.

Does this not portray the mind-numbing, mind-dumbing thinking of the American left? Everything works in a shade of gray. There is no right or wrong and tolerance is the overwhelming choice as long as it gets you to the leftist viewpoint.

And this is the General the Dims drag out for "expert opinion." God help us if a Dimocratically controlled legislative and executive branch becomes the winning vote.

Abizaid is of middle eastern descent IIRC, is that right?

If Iran isn't a suicide nation, what is?

#12 whiterasta

At least the Russians loved their children.

And didn't have to stated goal of dying. Reagan assured mutual destruction and they clammed up. You assure these people mutual destruction and they'll start dancing in the streets.

“There are ways to live with a nuclear Iran,” Abizaid said in remarks at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a think tank. “Let’s face it, we lived with a nuclear Soviet Union, we’ve lived with a nuclear China, and we’re living with (other) nuclear powers as well.”

That's the problem, though - the Soviet Union, China, Cuba - The people pulling the strings were/are largely atheists in love worldly possessions and power. MAD was at least a deterrent to them because being completely destroyed in a nuclear fireball seemed to them a little, I don't know, undesirable.

Iran, on the other hand... well, how exactly do you deter someone so in love with Allah that they see nothing bad about immersing the world in a nuclear Holocaust (and I use the word intentionally), even if it means they go with it?

Finally, after a day of madness ... sanity!

Hello all you beautiful lizards!

/wait. is CZ here?

I thought "IM_MAD_IN_THE_HEAD" wanted to find a catalyst to spur the Armageddon so he can get his virgins or whatever. I don't think our nuclear deterrent will act as a deterrent in this situation.

re: #12 whiterasta

The good General thinks the crazies in charge of Iran are like the Russians of the cold war era.

At least the Russians loved their children.

You mean the Russians didn't send their 10 year old boys off to march through German minefields wearing bandanas with Islamic slogans on them and carrying cardboard 'keys to Paradise' so the mines would blow the kids up, and not fighting aged soldiers and vehicles?

re: #8 straitcircle

The Soddomites are a bunch of pussies. They would not dare take on anyone but defenseless women.

The Persians would eat them for breakfast and the Soddomites know it.

Yeah, but it only takes a few maniacs to launch a nuke.

#17 DesertSage

Lebanese parents. He was the most senior officer of Arabic descent.

re: #12 whiterasta

At least the Russians loved their children.

At least they didn't encourage them to blow themselves up among lots of innocent people, either.

Aside from the fact that Iran may not be as rational as China or the USSR, the real problem is that Iran will certainly use their nuclear weapons to blackmail a cowardly Europe into standing aside as Iran uses conventional weapons and proxy armies such as Hezbollah to attack Israel and to dominate the middle-east.

Do we want to live with that?...Should we?

Great post title, Charles.

I dont read this as appeasement or surrender. We shoud make every effort to stop Iran from getting nukes. Failing that,

he was confident that if Iran gained nuclear arms, the United States could deter it from using them.

It's a warning. With the Soviet Union and China it was and is MAD. With Iran, there' s no mutual.

He misses the point. Iran will use a nuclear weapon against Israel.

OT, Malkin has this up.

Check out this dude getting tasered at a sparsely attended John Kerry forum.

Notice Lerch keeps babbling during the whole thing.

As for Abizaid, expect a "clarification" before long.

re: #12 whiterasta

At least the Russians loved their children.

And now, ironically, they aren't having any.

/anyone hear how "National Everyone Have Sex Day" went over there?

"“Iran is not a suicidal nation,” he said."

Bzzzt!
I'm sorry, John, your brains just slid out your left nostril and made you look very foolish, seeing as how Iran's government has repeatedly demonstrated that it IS paranoid and suicidal, but HEY! wasn't he a good sport ladies and gentlemen, give him a hand, on his way out, way out, far out

re: #23 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Ed:

Exactly!

What is this guy smoking? Russia did not want to bring back the 12th Imam. It looks like Abizaid is interviewing for a military consultant job for MSNBC...

Not to worry -- Iran will only nuke the Zionist entity.

re: #21 pink freud

/wait.

is CZ here?

hmmm. (from previous thread)

Would we know?

The Tehran Calculus, by Charles Krauthammer
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

In this excellent article, Charles Krauthammer discusses the costs and risks.

Is it any wonder we were losing the war with the insurgents/terrorists when Gen. (sic) Abizaid was in charge. Probably didn't want to hurt his fellow brethern's little bitty hearts. He may be a general but something is definitely wrong with this pin head. The Chinese are all about money and power-grabbing in Asia, they aren't suicidal and in general like slipping under the radar so they can enrichen themselves off the economies of the naive western world. Whatever happened to retired, Presidents, Politicians, Generals and Fed Reserve fruitcakes keeping their friggin mouths and opinions to themselves after retirement.

It's really quite simple, either we dis-able them now or wait until they kill a bunch of people and then get them!

As part of the new "Abizaid Solution", I have banned all fire extinguishers and smoke detectors from my house.

I will learn to live with fire.

Every effort should be made to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, but failing that, the world could live with a nuclear-armed regime in Tehran, a recently retired commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East said Monday.

If we can live with a nuclear Iran, why should we make every effort to stop them from being nuclear?

The reasons for the last few years of struggle in Iraq, before Petreus, are coming into focus.

re: #7 trailortrash

“Iran is not a suicide nation,”

the people in general may not be but...

Ding ding ding... we have a winner! A Lizard figgers it out in a few seconds, yet this general apparently hasn't.

re: #32 JammieWearingFool

And we wonder why our newspapers suck so bad. Look at what type of crap the J Schools produce. Once he started reisting Police, he kinda had it coming though. I will admit I chuckled a bit.

re: #22 kevinmumaw

I thought "IM_MAD_IN_THE_HEAD" wanted to find a catalyst to spur the Armageddon so he can get his virgins or whatever. I don't think our nuclear deterrent will act as a deterrent in this situation.

Iran is not a suicide nation,” he said. “I mean, they may have some people in charge that don’t appear to be rational, but I doubt that the Iranians intend to attack us with a nuclear weapon.”

Dead right, Kev, According to dinnerjacket, death is to aspired to and Iran is dispensible if it means the return of the 12th Iman.

This retired General (I presume this means he is still in bed) is showing all the symtoms of Ostrich syndrome

Oh yeah, the Iranian leaders are rational actors with a love of human life in their hearts...

...

This tradition is of specific interest because it is in this philosophical context that suicide bombings within Iraq are being conducted. Raphael Israeli has written the best overview of suicide bombing's Islamic philosophical origins. The conceptual basis for the Shi'ia (Shi'ite) cult of martyrdom is a tradition that originates with the legendary suffering of Hussein ibn Ali, grandson of the prophet Muhammad. According to the Ashura story, Hussein sacrificed himself for Allah when he and his followers were annihilated by the army of Caliph Yazid at Karbalah in 680. The idea of individual "selfless sacrifice" was used during the Iran- Iraq War of the 1980s when units of Iranian children with the "keys to Paradise" hanging on their necks cleared Iraqi minefields with their bodies. These Shi'ia sacrifices were immortalized with the blood-red colored water in the fountain dedicated to martyrs in Tehran. ₁₀

He said there is a basis for hope that Iran, over time, will move away from its current anti-Western stance.

...Well, we been waiting almost 30 years.
Whats another 30 years.

re: #32 JammieWearingFool

Notice Lerch keeps babbling during the whole thing.

As for Abizaid, expect a "clarification" before long.

You can bet it will be nuanced. I prefer St. JFK to Lerch, however. Much more indicative of his who Vietnam experience if you get my drift.

We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when,
But I'm sure we'll meet again some sunny day.
Keep smiling through, just the way you used to do,
Till the blue skies chase the dark clouds far away.

Now, won't you please say "Hello" to the folks that I know.
Tell 'em it won't be long.
'cause they'd be happy to know that when you saw me go,
I was singing this song.

We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when,
But I'm sure we'll meet again some sunny day.

Great, we can just wait for the first dirty bomb they sell to terrorists. Of course, we'll have no recourse since we technically won't know where the terrorists got the enriched uranium.

Oops.

re: #31 Timbre

He misses the point. Iran will use a nuclear weapon against Israel.

Rain patriot, #33:

.."/anyone hear how "National Everyone Have Sex Day" went over there?.."

No, but I wished I lived in Russia, that day.

Damn, those Russian women are gorgeous!

re: #26 americanpundit

#17 DesertSage

Lebanese parents. He was the most senior officer of Arabic descent.

Was he basically a quota pick?

Expecting a large credit to Swiss Bank account from Saudi Arabia to General John Abazaid

I don't remember The Soviet Union praying for the destruction of the world to become closer to Allah.

Israel will not be destroyed! It cannot be. Anybody no why?

“There are ways to live with a nuclear Iran,” Abizaid said in remarks at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a think tank. “Let’s face it, we lived with a nuclear Soviet Union, we’ve lived with a nuclear China, and we’re living with (other) nuclear powers as well.”

Benjamin Netanyahu put it best. The USSR pursued irrational goals via rational means. They were not suicidal.

Islamists, on the other hand, pursue irrational goals and use irrational means. Iran, in particular, glorifies suicide bombing.

The general is an ignoramus.

re: #43 Usful Ijit

Every effort should be made to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, but failing that, the world could live with a nuclear-armed regime in Tehran, a recently retired commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East said Monday.

If we can live with a nuclear Iran, why should we make every effort to stop them from being nuclear?

The reasons for the last few years of struggle in Iraq, before Petreus, are coming into focus.

Ummm...that's one retired military person's opinion. That does NOT make it true.

re: #32 JammieWearingFool

HAHA...I just watched the rest of the video. He pretty much surrendered all of his manhood (whatever he had to begin with) when he started whining like a little girl. No offense to the lovely ladies in the audience. ;)

re: #21 pink freud

/wait. is CZ here?

Yea, I'm here.

And yet again, a General echoes my line of thinking.

Would Iran actually use nukes on Israel preemptively, considering the consequences?

I'm beginning to think that I'm earning my nickname.

re: #52 MandyManners

Oops.

Shit, Mandy, we told you, DONT TOUCH THE RED BUTTON

re: #33 Rain Patriot

re: #12 whiterasta

/anyone hear how "National Everyone Have Sex Day" went over there?

saw a report about that.
you get a car if you have a kid exactly nine months from that day, lol

Follow on to the link from last thread on Blackwater license being suspended..
** live combat, language used is real.***
Blackwater in Najaf fighting the Mahdi Army

"Green flag is Mahdi Army... they're to be engaged on sight."

"It's going to be another long f...in day..."

re #39 The choices are all bad, but unlike the left, Krauthammer is willing to compare the bad choices and weigh them with regard to cost and risk. First Krauthammer discusses the costs and risks of taking military action against Iran. He does not shrink from doing this; yet the costs and risks of inaction are far worse.

First the cost and risk of taking military action:

The Tehran Calculus

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, September 15, 2006; A19

In his televised Sept. 11 address, President Bush said that we must not "leave our children to face a Middle East overrun by terrorist states and radical dictators armed with nuclear weapons." There's only one such current candidate: Iran.

The next day, he responded thus (as reported by Rich Lowry and Kate O'Beirne of National Review) to a question on Iran: "It's very important for the American people to see the president try to solve problems diplomatically before resorting to military force."

"Before" implies that the one follows the other. The signal is unmistakable. An aerial attack on Iran's nuclear facilities lies just beyond the horizon of diplomacy. With the crisis advancing and the moment of truth approaching, it is important to begin looking now with unflinching honesty at the military option.

The costs will be terrible:

· Economic . An attack on Iran is likely to send oil prices overnight to $100 or even to $150 a barrel. That will cause a worldwide recession perhaps as deep as the one triggered by the Iranian revolution of 1979.

Iran might suspend its own 2.5 million barrels a day of oil exports and might even be joined by Venezuela's Hugo Chavez, asserting primacy as the world's leading anti-imperialist. But even more effectively, Iran will shock the oil markets by closing the Strait of Hormuz, through which 40 percent of the world's exports flow every day.

Iran could do this by attacking ships in the Strait, scuttling its own ships, laying mines or just threatening to launch Silkworm anti-ship missiles at any passing tanker.

The U.S. Navy will be forced to break the blockade. We will succeed, but at considerable cost. And it will take time -- during which the world economy will be in a deep spiral.

· Military . Iran will activate its proxies in Iraq, most notably, Moqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army. Sadr is already wreaking havoc with sectarian attacks on Sunni civilians. Iran could order the Mahdi Army and its other agents within the police and armed forces to take up arms against the institutions of the central government itself, threatening the very anchor of the new Iraq. Many Mahdi will die, but they live to die. Many Iraqis and coalition soldiers are likely to die as well.

Among the lesser military dangers, Iran might activate terrorist cells around the world, although without nuclear capability that threat is hardly strategic. It will also be very difficult to unleash its proxy Hezbollah, now chastened by the destruction it brought upon Lebanon in the latest round with Israel and deterred by the presence of Europeans in the south Lebanon buffer zone.

· Diplomatic. There will be massive criticism of America from around the world. Much of it is to be discounted. The Muslim street will come out again for a few days, having replenished its supply of flammable American flags, most recently exhausted during the cartoon riots. Their governments will express solidarity with a fellow Muslim state, but this will be entirely hypocritical. The Arabs are terrified about the rise of a nuclear Iran and would privately rejoice in its defanging.

The Europeans will be less hypocritical because their visceral anti-Americanism trumps rational calculation. We will have done them an enormous favor by sparing them the threat of Iranian nukes, but they will vilify us nonetheless.

Whaaa...? I am confused. This guy should know better. Maybe he does. But really, what the hell? An apocolyptic Iran with Nukes is a huge problem.

How did that dolt become a General?

The same way Jimmah The Dunce became a Submarine officer, I suppose.

Dear G-d! Please, please don't ever let him become President!

"We can live with a nuclear armed Iran"? Yes, but we can live alot longer without one. Tel Aviv or New York will be gone within 30 minutes of Iran getting their first bomb.

Join the FUN!

[Link: www.theglobeandmail.com...]

Hope to see you there!

re: #54 whiterasta

Rain patriot, #33:

.."/anyone hear how "National Everyone Have Sex Day" went over there?.."

No, but I wished I lived in Russia, that day.

Damn, those Russian women are gorgeous!

Anyone know if they are looking for volunteers? :D

re: #31 Timbre

He misses the point. Iran will use a nuclear weapon against Israel.

Perfectly put. What he doesn't understand ( and he should ) is that any nuclear detonation over an Israeli city will result in a massive retaliation that would likely spread world wide. That is why only adult should play with the nukes-not children or the crazy relations.

re #39
Now for the costs and risks of not taking action:

These are the costs. There is no denying them. However, equally undeniable is the cost of doing nothing.

In the region, Persian Iran will immediately become the hegemonic power in the Arab Middle East. Today it is deterred from overt aggression against its neighbors by the threat of conventional retaliation. Against a nuclear Iran, such deterrence becomes far less credible. As its weak, nonnuclear Persian Gulf neighbors accommodate to it, jihadist Iran will gain control of the most strategic region on the globe.

Then there is the larger danger of permitting nuclear weapons to be acquired by religious fanatics seized with an eschatological belief in the imminent apocalypse and in their own divine duty to hasten the End of Days. The mullahs are infinitely more likely to use these weapons than anyone in the history of the nuclear age. Every city in the civilized world will live under the specter of instant annihilation delivered either by missile or by terrorist. This from a country that has an official Death to America Day and has declared since Ayatollah Khomeini's ascension that Israel must be wiped off the map.

Against millenarian fanaticism glorying in a cult of death, deterrence is a mere wish. Is the West prepared to wager its cities with their millions of inhabitants on that feeble gamble?

re: #17 DesertSage

Abizaid is of middle eastern descent IIRC, is that right?

BINGO!

It's a sad thing when the suspicion can arise ( with validity ) that the ethnicity of a General Officer of the United States Army, may influence, even trump his patriotism.

The Iranians are not arabs, as is Abizaid, but...

Certainly, he's a world class moron.

Wesley Clark, proved beyond doubt that one can attain the rank of General in the USA, despite being devoid of character or intellect. Abizaid,
sets this fact in stone.

but I doubt that the Iranians intend to attack us with a nuclear weapon.”

For the record, I say their real target is much closer to Iran, so the whole debate is kind of pointless. But if/when they ever use a nuke, they would surely deny it was theirs. Just look at how the Islamic Kleptocracy is engaging us in warfare right now, by supplying an array of terrorists in different countries, never by sending their own troops. They deny each accusation but the arms and cash keep flowing in.

And the General's theory that deterrence will stop the Mullahs doesn't apply if the world can't say for sure that it was an actually an Iranian nuke and not a wayward Russian, Nork, or Pak weapon that fell into AQ's hands. Who's going to order the glassification of Tehran when there isn't clear evidence they were responsible for the first strike?

The old rules of MADD don't work with Iran. I say terrorize the terrorists.

re #72

Against millenarian fanaticism glorying in a cult of death, deterrence is a mere wish. Is the West prepared to wager its cities with their millions of inhabitants on that feeble gamble?

re: #6 me

tell this to Israel, Abizaid

600 Iranian missiles pointed at Israel; Abizaid says world could abide nuclear Iran

“There are ways to live with a nuclear Iran,” Abizaid said...

The Fable of "The Scorpion and the Frog" comes to mind.

Power to the Correct People!

OT. In a piece of "pro-Americanism" entitled " A Lesson for Europe: American Muslims Strive to Become Model Citizens," der Speigel says:

After the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Muslim immigrants were seen as a potential threat in the United States. They have since become model citizens -- and now they want a greater say in politics.

[Link: www.spiegel.de:80...]

We are a model of integration of Muslims in the West. Maybe this is true for he more affluent Muslims who came over for the American dream reasons, but CAIR, MSA, MAS, ISNA, ICNA and all those other acronyms and abbreviations exist for another reason. The US has a growing problem with unwilling-to-assimilate maximalist Muslims who want and get special accommodation, a prelude to to sharia. Maybe der Spiegel is being a bit ironic when they say, "and now they want a greater say in politics."

The progress of sharia-filtration is farther along in Europe. And certainly since European nations don't offer the same opportunities to anyone, Muslim immigrants have a better change of a good life in the West if they play by the rules and work hard, like everyone else.

However, the US is seeing more and more the problems associated with non-assimilating Muslims. I don't understand why Muslims immigrate, if it is not to fit in and seek a better life, but the PC/multiculti enterprise in the US, just as much as in Europe, doesn't put any demands on those who immigrate for superficial reasons but don't have any intention of adopting the lifestyle of the countries to which they are immigrating.

It does kind of make you think that it is part of planned invasion, but it's probably more just people coming over because their own countries are so awful but without any desire of shedding the cultural sickness that is the cause of the problem in their original country of origin. They want the money to buy Saabs and Audis, without shedding their Islamist tendencies.

If they won't grow up and understand that you don't have wealth in a society that is ruled by sharia, we must then block all immigration from problem countries or have some way to sift through those who want to immigrate for a better life full stop and those who immigrate to get a few Western benefits while bringing their sharia baggage with them.

OT

Ed of Many Names! You amaze me. You did say the 24th in the Gulf of Mexico.

Storm could pop up in Gulf

[Link: www.theadvertiser.com...]

“Iran is not a suicide nation,” he said. “I mean, they may have some people in charge that don’t appear to be rational, but I doubt that the Iranians intend to attack us with a nuclear weapon.”

Yet another person speaking on areas on which they are not familiar or merely blind.
The president of Iran has already stated he would be willing to use the nuke with the first target being Israel and IIRC Saudi would be next. He already stated he knew Iran would be obliterated in the process and that was required to fulfill the prophecies.
Does anyone out there keep this link and story? It was published in LGF earlier this year. I had it saved and lost it when the cat walked on the computer. (variation on dog ate homework alibi) But, I know I had it.

re: #62 A Kiwi Infidel

re: #52 MandyManners

Oops.

Shit, Mandy, we told you, DONT TOUCH THE RED BUTTON

It's my right arm. I don't know what it's doing, mein Fuhrer.

re: #67 whiterasta

I'm giving him a pass on one bonehead statement. But now the microscope is on him forever.

re: #46 A Kiwi Infidel

Yeah, I think whenever someone has the title "retired General", they pretty much lose control of their faculties. I sit about 7 paygrades below General Abazaid...but even I know that religious fanatics do not respond to our Wester ideals of diplomacy.

How is New Zealand these days? I am trying to get my wife to go there or Australia on vacation, but she wants to go to Europe for some God-Awful reason.

re: #61 ChenZhen

I'm beginning to think that I'm earning my nickname.

Our military genius.

Speaking of learning to love the bomb
a little OT but why are China and Russia spying on us so much these days?

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

re: #61 ChenZhen

Chen,

With all due respect, the madman of Iran has pointed out that Israel has a population of 6 million. Iran has a population of 60 million.

Even if Israel retaliates, it would probably "only" kill less than half of the Iranian population. Whereas Iran could kill all of the dirty Jews in one strike.

“Iran is not a suicide nation,” he said. “I mean, they may have some people in charge that don’t appear to be rational, but I doubt that the Iranians intend to attack us with a nuclear weapon.”

::ahem::

Maybe not us, General, but:

Nuclear Weapons Can Solve the Israel Problem

[Ali Akhbar Hashemi] Rafsanjani said that Muslims must surround colonialism and force them [the colonialists] to see whether Israel is beneficial to them or not. If one day, he said, the world of Islam comes to possess the weapons currently in Israel's possession [meaning nuclear weapons] - on that day this method of global arrogance would come to a dead end. This, he said, is because the use of a nuclear bomb in Israel will leave nothing on the ground, whereas it will only damage the world of Islam.

So sayeth the supposed "moderate" who'd be president of Iran if we had not "meddled" and gotten the "radical" in office...

re: #76 Dustyvet

Well, Olmert is not worried, so go back to sleep.

Folks, you're getting into Moveon.com- attack- Petraeus territory. Agree with him or not, Abizaid did not get his rank because of his ethnic background. He earned it.
Disagree with him, fine, but let's respect his service.

re: #62 A Kiwi Infidel

re: #52 MandyManners

Oops.

Shit, Mandy, we told you, DONT TOUCH THE RED BUTTON

Seriously, I love that song. The graphics make it even more poignant.

MAD was feasible because the Soviets loved their children and the West loved their children. Sure, a communication cluster fuck could've occured that would've led to nuclear war but, with the Iranians and their buddies, NUCLEAR WAR IS A GIVEN.

re: #45 kevinmumaw

re: #32 JammieWearingFool

And we wonder why our newspapers suck so bad. Look at what type of crap the J Schools produce. Once he started reisting Police, he kinda had it coming though. I will admit I chuckled a bit.

Read the comments at the HuffPoo link HA has. They don't seem to have the same take on things...surprise surprise.

re: #75 EE

re #72

Against millenarian fanaticism glorying in a cult of death, deterrence is a mere wish. Is the West prepared to wager its cities with their millions of inhabitants on that feeble gamble?

The unfortunate answer to that question seems to be yes unfortunately! It seems the democrats are willing. Of course deep down they all are hoping President
Bush will take care of the problem for them before he leaves office-also it will give them another opportunity to scream,shout, and try to impeach him.

re: #61 ChenZhen

And yet again, a General echoes my line of thinking.

Would Iran actually use nukes on Israel preemptively, considering the consequences?

Yes. See my comment and link at #88.

re: #90 Jim in Virginia

Folks, you're getting into Moveon.com- attack- Petraeus territory. Agree with him or not, Abizaid did not get his rank because of his ethnic background. He earned it.
Disagree with him, fine, but let's respect his service.

re: #59 Mandy

re: #43 Usful Ijit

Every effort should be made to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, but failing that, the world could live with a nuclear-armed regime in Tehran, a recently retired commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East said Monday.

If we can live with a nuclear Iran, why should we make every effort to stop them from being nuclear?
The reasons for the last few years of struggle in Iraq, before Petreus, are coming into focus.

Ummm...that's one retired military person's opinion. That does NOT make it true.

*I am not saying General Abizaid's opinion is true or correct. Quite the opposite. I am saying that this muddled thinking contributed to our lack of progress until Petreus and the Surge.

F@#$ing dumbass.

I suppose we had nothing to fear from Hitler because he wasn't going to directly attack the United States either?

The point isn't that Iran is going to use a nuke to immediately attack the USA. . .of course it isn't, and nobody has been suggesting that it would.

The point is that once armed with nukes, Iran will slowly but inevitably take over the Middle East. . . .possibly first by nuking Israel. But even if not, by slowly escalating its military footprint to engulf all Middle Eastern oil production.

Does this clown even realize that the mantra of the Iranian Islamist regime is "Death to America"?

That's not some kind of sick MAD-TV joke, that's the actual slogan.

This paragraph struck me as the real point of the story, and makes me wonder whether it contains anything like an accurate representation of his position:

Abizaid's comments appeared to represent a more accommodating and hopeful stance toward Iran than prevails in the White House, which speaks frequently of the threat posed by Iran's nuclear ambitions. The administration says it seeks a diplomatic solution to complaints about Iran's alleged support for terrorism and its nuclear program, amid persistent rumors of preparations for a U.S. military strike.

In other words, Abizaid is a hero (for the media) because he provides ammunition (so to speak) for the anti-war crowd, and more "evidence" that the army and the White House are at odds with one another.

I express skepticism about the report in part because of this story that appeared in today's BotW:

Frank Rich opens his New York Times column yesterday (link for subscribers) as follows:

"Sir, I don't know, actually": The fact that America's surrogate commander in chief, David Petraeus, could not say whether the war in Iraq is making America safer was all you needed to take away from last week's festivities in Washington. Everything else was a verbal quagmire, as administration spin and senatorial preening fought to a numbing standoff. . . .

On the sixth anniversary of the day that did not change everything, General Petraeus couldn't say we are safer because he knows we are not.

The Times illustrates the column with a drawing of a tiny Petraeus beneath an enormous cartoon bubble containing the quote. The N and O in KNOW are written in thick, baroque letters to set them apart from the rest of the quote.

Rich's column, however, is misleading. WashingtonPost.com has the transcript, and here is the remark in context:

Sen. John Warner (R., Va.): Are you able to say at this time if we continue what you have laid before the Congress here as a strategy, do you feel that that is making America safer?

Petraeus: Sir, I believe that this is indeed the best course of action to achieve our objectives in Iraq.

Warner: Does that make America safer?

Petraeus: Sir, I don't know, actually. I have not sat down and sorted out in my own mind. What I have focused on and been riveted on is how to accomplish the mission of the Multi-National Force-Iraq.

I have not stepped back to look at--and you've heard, with other committees, in fact, you know, what is the impact on--I've certainly taken into account the impact on the military. The strain on our ground forces, in particular, has very much been a factor in my recommendations.

But I have tried to focus on doing what I think a commander is supposed to do, which is to determine the best recommendations to achieve the objectives of the policy from which his mission is derived. And that is what I have sought to do, sir.

Petraeus wouldn't say whether we were safer because his job is to carry out his mission, not to make policy.

re: #27 1redthread

re: #12 whiterasta

At least the Russians loved their children.

At least they didn't encourage them to blow themselves up among lots of innocent people, either.

It's just freakin' weird that something exists in the world that makes the USSR actually look good.

There are ways to live with a nuclear Iran

One way to live with a "Nuclear" Iran

You need quicktime to see it

re: #90 Jim in Virginia

Agreed. Excellent points...although Abizaid is now retired and has seemingly entered the world of politics -- thus making him "fair game"?

.
re: #90 Jim in Virginia

Folks, you're getting into Moveon.com- attack- Petraeus territory. Agree with him or not, Abizaid did not get his rank because of his ethnic background. He earned it.
Disagree with him, fine, but let's respect his service.

I agree. Disagree with his statements, but personal attacks are right along the MoveOn.org lines.

Thank God this idiot Abizaid is no longer heading up Central Command. He hasn't a clue who or what the world is dealing with right now.

re: #57 lucky dog

Israel will not be destroyed! It cannot be. Anybody no why?

The Bible teellls meee sooo...

...this could all be solve if Ahmadinnerjacket was accidentally run over by a Paki cab driver in New York.

OK so first off you have to qualify yourself by saying "we are not a suicide nation" and then you assure us by saying "they may have some people in charge that don’t appear to be rational"

Color me skeptical

What if say in 1972...

Leonid Brezhnev has announced, "Death to America" or "America will be wiped from the face of the earth", or "America Must Be Completely Destroyed! or "the roots of America must be ripped from the Earth!" during the height of the cold war.

Think we, the American public. would have felt all warm and fuzzy if Gen. John Abizaid stated:

“The USSR is not a suicide nation. I mean, they may have some people in charge that don’t appear to be rational, but I doubt that the USSR intends to attack us with nuclear weapons.”

Is it a wonder our allies question our integrity with asinine statements like this?

"Every effort should be made to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, but failing that..."

Every effort? So that's like, we nuke the fuck out of them, take over their country, dig their nuke preparations out of their underground facilities, and lay waste to any population that resists? That kind of 'every effort'?

Seems to me, if we make every effort to stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, they won't have nuclear weapons.

One has to wonder what limits on 'every effort' Abizaid has in mind.

re: #61 ChenZhen

re: #21 pink freud

/wait. is CZ here?

Yea, I'm here.

And yet again, a General echoes my line of thinking.

Would Iran actually use nukes on Israel preemptively, considering the consequences?

I'm beginning to think that I'm earning my nickname.

Have you ever taken the time to add up all the Generals who agree with you, and all the Generals who disagree with you?

There are literally hundreds of Generals in the United States Armed Forces. I would bet my ass that a majority of them disagree with your assessment General Chen.
And when I'm proven correct...you can have the privilege of kissing said ass!

Iran, like the rest of the Islamic world, has about fourteen centuries of pushing, prodding, nudging the boundaries. If they get nukes, they will use them; first just for blackmail, and then in fact. I could definitely see they ayatollahs making the calculation:

"If we use them against a city, the world will respond. If we use them against the oil fields of Saudi Arabia (and only kill a few hundred techs), the peace-at-all-cost lefties of the west won't let Bush respond..."

The danger will be economic blackmail and eventual Iranian domination of the suddenly $300/barrel oil market.

In short, they will not respond the same way the Soviets did; they will demand major concessions from the world for a tenuous, fearful peace.

I did not know Neville Chamberlain had kin in the USA.

re: #100 David IV of Georgia

Excellent point!

re: #100 David IV of Georgia

At least the Russians loved their children.

At least they didn't encourage them to blow themselves up among lots of innocent people, either.

It's just freakin' weird that something exists in the world that makes the USSR actually look good.

You kidding me? Between the Truthers and militant Islam they make friggin Nazis look good. KKK Byrd good.

after all its only jews that will get nuked anyways

re: #96 Usful Ijit

Thanks for the clarification. I was about to say that you were living up to your nic.

re: #87 song_and_dance_man

From the Podhoretz story:

Demented though he may be, I doubt that Ahmadinejad is so crazy as to imagine that he could wipe America off the map even if he had nuclear weapons. But what he probably does envisage is a diminution of the American will to oppose him: that is, if not a world without America, he will settle, at least in the short run, for a world without much American influence.

That is not all that unlikely a scenario if the left-wing dems get into power. They are isolationists; worse, in their "anti-imperialism" they genuinely believe that any US intervention in the world is evil.

We had a glimpse of what these people can accomplish during the Carter years, and it's no accident that the formative moment (literally) for the Iranian Regime came when Carter was in the White House.

Dinner Jacket may be crazy, but I think Norman has identified an achievable goal that he might very well have.

re: #104 Maui Girl

Thank God this idiot Abizaid is no longer heading up Central Command. He hasn't a clue who or what the world is dealing with right now.

Even retired, Abizaid probably sees and understands more information in a week about what's going on in the world, than most people here do in a lifetime.

I do love this song.

We do not worship Iran, we worship Allah. For patriotism is another name for paganism. I say let this land [Iran] burn. I say let this land go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world.

-- Ayatollah Khomeini speech in Qom 1980

I hope that Gen. Abizaid can explain exactly how deterrence would work against such an Islam-obsessed death cult, without just making the assumption that Islam-obsessed death cult Iran = the Soviet Union or other life-loving states. Please drop the false equation, Gen. Abizaid, and explain in terms of the dominant ideology of the leaders of Iran how deterrence would work. No false analogies, please, just explain in terms of Iran.

re: #108 goodbye_natalie

Actually, a lot of people had been saying things like that. The official line of the left always was that the USSR was all puppies and kittens and we were the big bad monster.

re: #23 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

"carrying cardboard 'keys to Paradise'"

Not to be picky - the keys were plastic - imported from Taiwan - 100K? of them and I think kids younger than 10 participated.

re: #61 ChenZhen

Your "LINE OF THINKING"

For what it's worth..
The “Mad Arab” on Our Side - at NRO

“I would say, as a person who has studied the Arab world and loves the Arab world, that the majority of educated Arabs that I talk to know that Saddam Hussein has been a plague on the Arab world and on his own people, and they welcome his removal,” Abizaid said at a briefing at Central Command on Sunday. --March 2003 interview

John P. Abizaid - profile at SourceWatch

"Yet Abizaid has hardly shunned risks. As a young officer, he left the elite Rangers to take a military scholarship at the University of Jordan. During his officially academic tour in Amman, Abizaid strayed off campus to train with Jordanian commandos and travel in the Middle East, including then-obscure Iraq, where Saddam Hussein was rising to power. Said Killebrew, 'Abizaid bucked the usual assignment ladder and became an Arabic specialist at a time when that wasn't always a good career move, purely because he intellectually believed the Army would need Arabic specialists. Well, he was right.'

"Abizaid's investment paid off in 1985, when he joined the United Nations monitoring mission in his ancestral Lebanon. 'He had a tremendous reputation,' recalled another Lebanon peacekeeper, retired Marine Col. Gary Anderson, and 'got along well with Palestinians, Lebanese, and Israelis.' Abizaid brought the same diplomacy to northern Iraq in 1991, when he peacefully eased Iraqi regulars out of Kurdish areas, once by bombarding them with loud rock music. He returned to the region this January when he was named one of two deputies to Franks, who -- managing 24 other countries in his theater of operations -- is likely to delegate day-to-day work on postwar Iraq to Abizaid.

#61 ChenZhen -

And yet again, a General echoes my line of thinking.

And, according to Bob Woodward, Jack Murtha's:

>> Wallace: General john Abizaid , commander of all U.S. Forces in the middle east, you quote him as saying privately a year ago that the U.S. Should start cutting its troops in Iraq. You report that he told some close army friends, "we've got to get the 'f' out." And then this past march, general abizaid visited congressman john Murtha on capitol hill.

>> Woodward: John Murtha is, in many ways, the soul and the conscience of the military. And he came out and said, "we need to get out of Iraq as soon as it's practical." And that sent a 10,000-volt jolt through the white house.

>> Wallace: Yeah.

>> Woodward: And here's mr. Military saying, "we need to get out." And john Abizaid went to see him privately. This is Bush's and Rumsfeld's commander in iraq.

>> Wallace: Right.

>> Woodward: And john Abizaid held up his fingers, according to Murtha, and said, "we're about a quarter of an inch apart," he said. "We're that far apart."

>> Wallace: Abizaid and Murtha?

>> Woodward: That far apart.

[Link: www.crooksandliars.com...]

WASHINGTON, 1944 - Every effort should be made to stop Nazi Germany from obtaining nuclear weapons, but failing that, the world could live with a nuclear-armed regime in Berlin, a recently retired commander of U.S. forces in Europe said Monday.

Jab Ohnizaid, the retired Army general who headed Central Command for nearly four years, said he was confident that if Germany gained nuclear arms, the United States could deter it from using them.

“Nazi Germany is not a suicide nation,” he said. “I mean, they may have some people in charge that don’t appear to be rational, but I doubt that the Nazis intend to attack us with a nuclear weapon.”

The Nazis are aware, he said, that the United States has a far superior military capability.

“I believe that we have the power to deter Germany, should it become nuclear,” he said, referring to the theory that Germany would not risk a catastrophic retaliatory strike by using a nuclear weapon against the United States.

Ohnizaid's speech was interrupted by a large flash and mushroom cloud that disintegrated him.

There. Fixed that for ya.

OT:

This is brilliant and a must-read:

THE IMPOSITION OF LEFTIST SHARIA

Definition: Leftist Sharia - the dynamic body of leftist quasi-religious dogma that dictates suitable behavior for everyone...or else.

Ahmed the Mad does not have to nuke the USA to destroy, or seriously damage it.

Choke off the Straits of Hormuz and nuke the Soddomite oil terminal and the USA and the Civilized World will have a huge, huge problem.

re: #118 Jim in Virginia

re: #104 Maui Girl

Thank God this idiot Abizaid is no longer heading up Central Command. He hasn't a clue who or what the world is dealing with right now.

Even retired, Abizaid probably sees and understands more information in a week about what's going on in the world, than most people here do in a lifetime.

I agree he should be respected for his duty to our country and always treated with all due respect. And I am sure he still sees more information than all of us ever will but there does seem to be a disconnect between the seeing and the understanding part!

Koskidz agree...
Gen. Abizaid: "We can live with a nuclear Iran"

I pray more generals and other figures come out with similar messages. If those who tarnished their entire careers with the Iraq debacle came out and made such pronouncements - Colin Powell obviously springs to mind - they would go a long way to salvaging their reputations. They would be doing a good nearly as important as the ill they have brought us.

Casey Qasem and the Zogby's are non-Muslim Arabs who feel a greater affinity to the Arabs and Islam than they do their own country.

Not saying that about Abizaid, and the Iranians are Aryans, that is, Achmadinejehad has the achievable goal of being Adolf Hitler with a suntan.

The good thing, anyone who claims racism if we bomb Iran, they are white people. So we can tell them to STFU.

re: #121 lucius septimius

LOL. In fact, you will recall it was completely radical when Ronald Reagan called the Soviet Union "the evil empire." Everything was measured and everything calculated - now behind closed doors...

The general ... is a naive buffoon . Thank God he is no longer in charge !
UNLIKE the Nazis and the Soviets the Islamists have ZERO sense of self preservation . If they want to die for ALLAH .
How do you inject common sense into a man of that age ?
Fools and weaklings in positions of power get people killed... lots of people killed !

re: #90 Jim in Virginia

Folks, you're getting into Moveon.com- attack- Petraeus territory. Agree with him or not, Abizaid did not get his rank because of his ethnic background. He earned it.
Disagree with him, fine, but let's respect his service.

Respect the Rank but not his opinion.

re: #130 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Casey Qasem and the Zogby's are non-Muslim Arabs who feel a greater affinity to the Arabs and Islam than they do their own country.

.

The voice of Shaggy? Say it ain't so!

re: #122 Bobibutu

re: #23 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

"carrying cardboard 'keys to Paradise'"

Not to be picky - the keys were plastic - imported from Taiwan - 100K? of them and I think kids younger than 10 participated.

Did that from memory. I hope the Taiwanese didn't know what the plastic keys were for.

re: #108 goodbye_natalie

I wonder from time to time what the world would be like today if Goldwater and Big Dog LeMay had been elected.

Sung by Vera Lynn, of whom Pink Floyd sung:

Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?
Remember how she said that
We would meet again
Some sunny day?
Vera! Vera!
What has become of you?
Does anybody else here
Feel the way I do?

I've not been able to get in on the conversations much today, had to work & take care of my kids, but, I cannot believe what happened here. [Link: www.starbanner.com...]

I'm SERIOUSLY SICK over this, folks...

re: #10 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Hmmm, Abizaid leaves and the situation in Iraq starts improving.

Coincidence?

A lil' double loyalty perhaps?

MoveOn news:
"Oh, by the way, thanks to Campaign Spot reader Chris for reminding me that one of the recommendations of the rraq Study Group was... Gen. David Petraeus' surge."

Further, adding more American troops could conceivably worsen those aspects of the security problem that are fed by the view that the U.S. presence is intended to be a long-term “occupation.” We could, however, support a short term redeployment or surge of American combat forces to stabilize Baghdad, or to speed up the training and equipping mission, if the U.S. commander in Iraq determines that such steps would be effective.

"So MoveOn is criticizing Rudy for not joining a group that made a policy recommendation that they denounce. Brilliant."

09/17 04:05 PM

Doesn't his conession that “they may have some people in charge that don’t appear to be rational..." put the lie to the rest of his thesis that a nuclear-armed Iran can be relied on to act rationally?

re: #136 Bobibutu

re: #108 goodbye_natalie

I wonder from time to time what the world would be like today if Goldwater and Big Dog LeMay had been elected.

Talk about global warming-A tad hotter I think.

re: #131 goodbye_natalie

Remember the little girl who wrote to Gorbechev? The media circus as the MSM bent over backwards to show how ol' splotch-top was a much wiser, kinder and gentler leader that our wicked Reagan?

Is there anything the MSM hasn't been wrong about in the last forty years?

Does every general officer that leaves the service after commanding in Iraq undergo a lobotomy?

re: #134 lucius septimius

Ruh-ro!

If Iran can be nuclear, I want to be nuclear too.

Seriously! My industry's :

(a) Annual Net Sales dwarfs the Iranian GDP
(b) employs more people than adult existing adult Iranian males
(c) offers dividends and advantages to participating members

If they get Nukes, I get Nukes. Period. Workers of the free world unite!

re: #118 Jim in Virginia

Even retired, Abizaid probably sees and understands more information in a week about what's going on in the world, than most people here do in a lifetime.

Sees, perhaps. Understands, obviously not.

re: #111 stevieray

Excellent analysis. Well thought out, well written.

re: #92 bikermailman

Really? I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell ya.

Does Abizaid know anything about Shiite eschatology? Or is he one of those lovely, logical liberals who believe that religion has nothing to do with the conflicts in the Middle East? Does he really think that those who are 'waiting for the Mahdi' have the same sensibilities of the Cold War Era Soviets?

Someone needs to invite Robert Spencer to do a lecture at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. It would be...enlightening for the "thinkers" there.

re: #138 lurknomore

I've not been able to get in on the conversations much today, had to work & take care of my kids, but, I cannot believe what happened here. [Link: www.starbanner.com...]

I'm SERIOUSLY SICK over this, folks...

Whooo boy, the lawyers are going to be lining up for this kid.

And, in fact, using Code Pink's recent antics as an example of why this was WAYYY excessive force.

iran + nukes = [Link: www.trailortrash.us...]

Abizaid is not quite awake . From where to people get names like Abizaid?

Lebanon, for instance. How does that correlate with craziness?

(Nickname :The "Mad Arab," earned while at West Point accoring to Wikipedia.)

Hillary Care 2.0 - Pretty much the same as Hillary 1.0

Now with even less liberty!

re: #139 ErislDysnomia

re: #10 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Hmmm, Abizaid leaves and the situation in Iraq starts improving.

Coincidence?

A lil' double loyalty perhaps?

I would hardly go that far, which is insulting and clearly over the line (like accusing a Jewish US Army officer of having more loyalty to Israel than to America), but someone with an entirely different philosophy, certainly.

re: #83 kevinmumaw

re: #46 A Kiwi Infidel

Yeah, I think whenever someone has the title "retired General", they pretty much lose control of their faculties. I sit about 7 paygrades below General Abazaid...but even I know that religious fanatics do not respond to our Wester ideals of diplomacy.

How is New Zealand these days? I am trying to get my wife to go there or Australia on vacation, but she wants to go to Europe for some God-Awful reason.

Come to NZ, you'll love it. Stay away from Auckland, other than transit, but get Taupo, or the South Island. And if you love fishing, there's plenty of fish, and if you like to hunt, well, we can sort that for ya.

re: #61 ChenZhen

The nickname ChenZen, or the one we mutter silently under our breath but can't write here?

Just curious.

Ahmadinejad has called Iran a "nation of martyrs." He would willingly trade a major Iranian city or two for Tel Aviv. Don't fool yourself, Abizaid. We cannot learn to live with a nuclear Iran.

on a wild whim I googled "John Abizaid forced to retire," it was interesting

re: #110 DesertSage

Perhaps we should stick with 4-star-General/ChenZhen convergences.

re: #151 shibumi

Does Abizaid know anything about Shiite eschatology? Or is he one of those lovely, logical liberals who believe that religion has nothing to do with the conflicts in the Middle East? Does he really think that those who are 'waiting for the Mahdi' have the same sensibilities of the Cold War Era Soviets?

Someone needs to invite Robert Spencer to do a lecture at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. It would be...enlightening for the "thinkers" there.

Abizaid is following the realist/rational choice position to a tea. Unfortunately, that approach, one that depends on all sides making their decisions rationally on the basis of careful calculations of economic self-interest, dominates IR thinking in the academy, Foggy Bottom, and even the war colleges.

Shiite eschatology would never figure into realist calculations, if for no reason than it can't be quantified and worked into their regressions. If you can't run a regression on it, it doesn't exist.

re: #112 USA

I did not know Neville Chamberlain had kin in the USA.

Yep...and they even use his quotes.

re: #135 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

re: #122 Bobibutu

re: #23 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

"carrying cardboard 'keys to Paradise'"

Not to be picky - the keys were plastic - imported from Taiwan - 100K? of them and I think kids younger than 10 participated.

Did that from memory. I hope the Taiwanese didn't know what the plastic keys were for.

Only later ... they had to be horrified.

re: #99 song_and_dance_man

re: #57 lucky dog

Israel will not be destroyed! It cannot be. Anybody no why?

I do, and have written about it many times.

Agreed, and indeed, it has already been written, right SADM?

re: #138 lurknomore

I've not been able to get in on the conversations much today, had to work & take care of my kids, but, I cannot believe what happened here. [Link: www.starbanner.com...]

I'm SERIOUSLY SICK over this, folks...

Holy crap...Kerry just stood there and droned on and on. He did absolutely NOTHING to help that kid.
Kerry is an indecisive moron...I'm glad he never became president!

re: #90 Jim in Virginia

Folks, you're getting into Moveon.com- attack- Petraeus territory. Agree with him or not, Abizaid did not get his rank because of his ethnic background. He earned it.
Disagree with him, fine, but let's respect his service.

They say you salute the uniform, not the man.

I respect his service, I just disagree with his opinion. . .strongly. His opinions simply do not appear well thought out.

To his credit, he says "every effort" should be made to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons.

So that begs two questions:

1. Why should we prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons, if we can "live with them"? Obviously the good general thinks Iran is a threat to the USA and to the world.

2. Why does he think that "every effort" WON'T prevent Iran from developing them? (IE why does he think the USA and a coalition of the willing can't take out Iran's nuke sites?).

He says that a war in the Middle East would be a bad thing, but he doesn't address the 600 pound gorilla in the room, namely that unless Iran is stopped from developing nuclear weapons (via diplomacy or conventional arms) there will be a NUCLEAR war in the Middle East because Israel can not and will not tolerate Iranian nukes.

either he himself believes that Iran is a threat, or alternatively

The USA cannot afford to play isolationist when nuclear weapons are involved.

re: #23 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

You mean the Russians didn't send their 10 year old boys off to march through German minefields wearing bandanas with Islamic slogans on them and carrying cardboard 'keys to Paradise' so the mines would blow the kids up, and not fighting aged soldiers and vehicles?

Eh, Ed? Nah, the Russian Soviets sent the Ukrainian 10 year olds and Baltic 10 year olds to their deaths, etc. to help the motherland. Different totalitarian government, different details.

re: #116 MandyManners

Glad to clarify. A troll I am not.

re: #158 sifty

re: #61 ChenZhen

The nickname ChenZen, or the one we mutter silently under our breath but can't write here?

Just curious.

Me too.

"We can learn to live with a nuclear Iran"

We can also learn how to die with one too asshole.

re: #153 trailortrash

iran + nukes = [Link: www.trailortrash.us...]

That is seriously awsome! Thanks!

re: #123 kreigwagon

re: #61 ChenZhen

Your "LINE OF THINKING"

Not that I put a durned thing past those pyscho beezotches, but does that look 'shopped to you?

re: #152 ErislDysnomia

re: #138 lurknomore

I've not been able to get in on the conversations much today, had to work & take care of my kids, but, I cannot believe what happened here. [Link: www.starbanner.com...]

I'm SERIOUSLY SICK over this, folks...

p.s reminds me of the scene in this show where a goa'uld torture stick was used on a protestor!

Last Ot (sorry)

Campaign spot sez:

Check tomorrow's papers to see if Hillary Clinton's health care plan, which includes "individual mandates", requiring all citizens to be covered, to see if it gets the "Health Insurance Or Else" headline that Mitt Romney's plan got.

re: #170 ChenZhen

re: #158 sifty

re: #61 ChenZhen

The nickname ChenZen, or the one we mutter silently under our breath but can't write here?

Just curious.

Me too.

nehZnehC

re: #144 lucius septimius

Is there anything the MSM hasn't been wrong about in the last forty years?

I've been racking my brain and haven't come up with anything major yet.

re: #143 Nevergiveup

re: #136 Bobibutu

re: #108 goodbye_natalie

I wonder from time to time what the world would be like today if Goldwater and Big Dog LeMay had been elected.

Talk about global warming-A tad hotter I think.

Now ... were you influenced by the Dems little girl w/flower-fade-to-Nuke commercial?

These 2 had to be the sanest ones in the contest. Look what we got from LBJ.

How few words it can take for a four star to lose his shine... to me it shows a lack of grasping the big picture... I wonder if Hillary has him tapped for sec of indefensibility if she steals the whitehouse gets elected...

re: #140 song_and_dance_man

re: #117 lucius septimius

We had a glimpse of what these people can accomplish during the Carter years, and it's no accident that the formative moment (literally) for the Iranian Regime came when Carter was in the White House.

It's no wonder bin Laden campaigned for Kerry. Iran and the rest of the Muslim world that is looking at American politics are probably hoping for another lefty to occupy the White House. Someone like Carter who lost his balls during the Iran Hostage Crisis, or one like Wet Willie who barely lifted a finger to confront Islam when the World Trade Center or the USS Cole were bombed.

There is a difference between Clinton and Carter, though. Clinton sent troops willy nilly into all sorts of situations and made motions towards intensifying the pressure on Iraq. His problem was half-measures, lack of resolve, and worse, a complete lack of a strategic plan. Carter, on the other hand, didn't want to do anything at all. He had a strategic plan, but unfortunately it was based on believing what Brezhnev said, thinking we were at fault in the Cold War, Central America, Africa, the Middle East, and everywhere else, and thinking that Khomeini was an OK guy and would be a better ally than the Shah.

In other words, the difference between the inept and the addled.

re: #118 Jim in Virginia

re: #104 Maui Girl

Thank God this idiot Abizaid is no longer heading up Central Command. He hasn't a clue who or what the world is dealing with right now.

Even retired, Abizaid probably sees and understands more information in a week about what's going on in the world, than most people here do in a lifetime.

what makes you say that Jim?
Is he privy to the inner workings of Ahma dinner jackets' mind?
can he state without hesitation that Israel and the U.S. won't attack us?
what happens if the Quds forces get that nuclear capability?

and the most important question..

we risk nothing by deterring and keeping nuclear capabilities from Iran until they form a government that doesn't endorse a human death cult.

my question? what do we risk if the good General is wrong? My life? the lives of my children? my countrymen?
this guys' thinking is flawed...I guess some folks will do ANYTHING for money.

re: #173 bikermailman

re: #123 kreigwagon

re: #61 ChenZhen

Your "LINE OF THINKING"

Not that I put a durned thing past those pyscho beezotches, but does that look 'shopped to you?

Well the point about Chen was made...yup

Oh well, at least nuclear winter will cancel out global warming.

///Channeling Futurama.

Haven't been able to read other comments... but I think the problem here is that it will not be 'contained' to Iran. They get the bomb... every other third world thug will get it too. Spread the weatlth... as they say. And then what do you do? N. Korea was caught with their pants down giving their goodies to Syria... Diplomacy is just a "D" word...

Although technically he is correct - we can all learn to become slaves to islam if we don't want to risk death...

re: #156 Spiny Norman

re: #139 ErislDysnomia

re: #10 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Hmmm, Abizaid leaves and the situation in Iraq starts improving.Coincidence?

A lil' double loyalty perhaps?

I would hardly go that far, which is insulting and clearly over the line (like accusing a Jewish US Army officer of having more loyalty to Israel than to America), but someone with an entirely different philosophy, certainly.

Indeed you are right, it was over the line. Sorry about that!

re: #177 goodbye_natalie

re: #144 lucius septimius

Is there anything the MSM hasn't been wrong about in the last forty years?

I've been racking my brain and haven't come up with anything major yet.

Don't hurt yourself. Have a drink, relax, and watch some football.

re: #155 FrogMarch

Seriously. I thought she was allegedly smart. I recall with distinction being in my "Election '94" Political Science class at Indiana University. Out of a class of 275, I was the one person to say that Mario Cuomo was going to be defeated by George Pataki. My professor made it a point to ridicule my prediction in class. I have to give thanks to Hillary Clinton for 1994. She and she alone is responsible for the dramatic shift in power that was only recovered 12 years later. Somewhat.

In fact, if everything is as bad as the leftist nit wits claim it is, it can all be traced to Hillary Clinton's superbad Health Care debacle of 94. How sweet it is that she rolls it out again as she runs for prez. With absolutely no sense of history. Meanwhile Murtha makes histrionic claims that the D's will make further gains of 40-50 seats in '08. Further proof he is on drugs.

re: #153 trailortrash

iran + nukes = [Link: www.trailortrash.us...]

Did you do that? It's amazing!

re: #185 new2thezoo

Haven't been able to read other comments... but I think the problem here is that it will not be 'contained' to Iran. They get the bomb... every other third world thug will get it too. Spread the weatlth... as they say. And then what do you do? N. Korea was caught with their pants down giving their goodies to Syria... Diplomacy is just a "D" word...

Diplomacy is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. Liberals don't seem to understand that, judging by the way they talk about foreign policy.

re: #156 Spiny Norman

re: #139 ErislDysnomia

re: #10 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Hmmm, Abizaid leaves and the situation in Iraq starts improving.
Coincidence?

A lil' double loyalty perhaps?

I would hardly go that far, which is insulting and clearly over the line (like accusing a Jewish US Army officer of having more loyalty to Israel than to America), but someone with an entirely different philosophy, certainly.

I was questioning, indirectly, his leadership as compared to Petraeus. Maybe his competence, Not questioning his loyalty.

Abizaid has a short memory. If the oil producing nations were able to put together OPEC and bring the west to its knees with the oil embargo, imagine what a few arab countries with nukes could force the west to do.

Is this not a Self Portrait Chen?

The U.S. may be able to abide a nuclear Iran, but the U.S. isn't the nation those in control of Iran who "may not appear to be rational" have said should be wiped off the map...

re: #178 Bobibutu

re: #143 Nevergiveup

re: #136 Bobibutu

re: #108 goodbye_natalie

I wonder from time to time what the world would be like today if Goldwater and Big Dog LeMay had been elected.

Talk about global warming-A tad hotter I think.

Now ... were you influenced by the Dems little girl w/flower-fade-to-Nuke commercial?

These 2 had to be the sanest ones in the contest. Look what we got from LBJ.

Actually I was just joking. I greatly respect Sen. Goldwater the more i read about him.

re: #169 Usful Ijit

re: #116 MandyManners

Glad to clarify. A troll I am not.

My apologies. Part of my suspicion stemmed from your 5 comments in 14.5 months. (I really suck at troll-detection.)

re: #188 lucius septimius

Yes!
they were right about Global Cooling.
And they were right about Y2K
And they are right about Climate Change/Global Warming.

I have a bridge I want to sell..

Any takers?

re: #47 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

So that's why there are no 7-Elevens in Iran. The Ayatollah Khomeini sent them all to the front.

re: #134 lucius septimius

re: #130 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Casey Qasem and the Zogby's are non-Muslim Arabs who feel a greater affinity to the Arabs and Islam than they do their own country.

.

The voice of Shaggy? Say it ain't so!

Think that's bad? How about this?http://bloopers.hankhayes.com/ Warning: Language alert, but funny as hell. Will change your view of Kasey Kasem forever.

re: #160 zardah

on a wild whim I googled "John Abizaid forced to retire," it was interesting

DISH, DARLING! DISH!

Do we have only A-soles in high places?

England: Agents of the Caliphate, Meet Miss Muddassar Arani

[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

Perhaps Abizaid is posturing for a sweet appointment. With that perspective he's perfect for UN Ambassador for the HillaryUS administration.

And I just made that word up. Ha.

re: #192 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

I was questioning, indirectly, his leadership as compared to Petraeus. Maybe his competence, Not questioning his loyalty.

See my #187.

Wah, wah, wah...

Cry me a river.

Islamaphobia raises it's ugly head in eurabia:

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

I'm not sure why the general said that - maybe it's diplotalk. All I know is that Iran uses what it has now throughout the world, blowing people up here, there, and everywhere, smuggling and supplying terrorists. They are two-faced liars. They torture their own citizens. They talk as if they want to bring on Armageddon.

Call me a skeptic. I don't want them to have control of even one tiny nuke.

re: #153 trailortrash

iran + nukes = [Link: [Link: www.trailortrash.us...]...]

That is amazing...

When you think of Iran, think Hojatieh.
This is the movement that wants to force the Mahdi to come by producing sufficient violence, death, destruction and chaos in the world, so that the Mahdi will come.
That means that far from being deterred by the thought of mutual destruction, the Hojatiehs would welcome it, and strongly desire it, because it would bring the Mahdi, which is their fervent wish.
[Link: noiri.blogspot.com...]

I don't recall China and the USSR embracing ideologies that laud the desirability of suicide. And as we've seen, the world can only barely live with a nuclear Pakistan and North Korea as things are now. Will things somehow become more predictable and stable with Iran added to the mix?

How many special operations and covert strikes will have to be undertaken to prevent a nuclear Iran from exporting and pre-positioning its nuclear weaponry across the world? How much of our intelligence resources will be kept running in circles trying to keep an eye on Iran's nukes and the competing nuke programs that will spring up all over the Muslim world?

Has Abizaid really thought this through?

re: #207 Cattt

I'm not sure why the general said that - maybe it's diplotalk. All I know is that Iran uses what it has now throughout the world, blowing people up here, there, and everywhere, smuggling and supplying terrorists. They are two-faced liars. They torture their own citizens. They talk as if they want to bring on Armageddon.

Call me a skeptic. I don't want them to have control of even one tiny nuke.

You must be one of them neo-cons I hear so much about. :)

Look, I think what he said is ill-advised, but let's give Abizaid the benefit of the doubt. Look how the MSM totally misrepresented what Alan Greenspan said about a "war for oil" over the weekend. He never said any such thing. And on the face of it, Abizaid's right...we COULD survive a nuclear Iran. It's just doubtful that our European and Middle Eastern allies would.

Never forget: If Iran were to bomb Israel, half of the world's Jews would die in an instant. If Israel retaliated, there would still be a billion Musselmen out there...

re: #201 bikermailman

wow, ponderous man, f'n ponderous

re: #207 Cattt

I commented on this earlier -- I don't trust the media, especially when they are representing the views of generals. They went out of their way to misrepresent Petraeus's comments in order to manufacture evidence to support their anti-war stance. I wouldn't put it past them to do the same here.

re: #207 Cattt

Call me a skeptic. I don't want them to have control of even one tiny nuke.

I don't think they should even be allowed to have control of lawn darts.

re: #198 song_and_dance_man

re: #165 A Kiwi Infidel

re: #99 song_and_dance_man

re: #57 lucky dog

Israel will not be destroyed! It cannot be. Anybody no why?

I do, and have written about it many times.

Agreed, and indeed, it has already been written, right SADM?

Israel will indeed suffer in the time of Jacobs trouble, but cannot be destroyed by men, nor will it be. When the armies of many nations once again and for the last time surround Jerusalem this current age comes to a close.

Agreed, it will be a Time of Jacob's Trouble, however, it will also have all the anti-semites baying for the blood of the remnant. But the remnant will survive and those who called for the destruction of Israel and/or supported any attack will be in deep do-do

When our boys pulled Saddam out of his hole the mission was accomplished.

We are not in the business of nation building and the last thing we need is a caliphate established with our blood and money.

I say get the f*kc out and let Muhammamadania get on with the business of killing each other, close the borders and stop Islamic infiltration!

And while we're at it, shut down the mosques and madrassh's and re-export the hatepreachers and strip ever Islamo-A-sole of citizenship and get them ready for deportation.

[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

re #209

Monday, April 17, 2006
REVISED - Think Iran - Think HOJATIEH!

NEW CONTENT ADDED about half way down

General consideration needed when you think about Iran = Hojatieh!

"Hojatieh" headed by looney Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi, wants the quick return of the 12th Imam, a boy who disappeared down a well in the 1300s and is a direct descendant of the Prophet Mohammad.

Ahamdi-Nejad is a desciple of Mesbah Yazdi and a true believer of the Hojatieh.

The Hojatieh creed, which was too crazy even for Khomeini, who created the Islamic regime in Iran, says the 12th Imam will return to bring salvation to mankind (similar to the second coming of Christ concept) BUT ...

In order for him to return for this purpose there has to be sufficient death, misery, oppression, pain and suffering in the world to make it worth his while (so to speak).

THUS... to encourage a speedy return of the 12th Imam, the Hojatieh (presently the dominant Islamic creed in Iran with Mesbah Yazdi the power behind the throne and likely to become the Supreme Ruler in the very near future) insists that their duty is to create enough death, misery, oppression, pain and suffering to entice the 12th Imam to return.

AND... Anyone who acts to prevent all this suffering etc., is against Islam (as per Hojatieh) and as an apostate should be killed.

SO... fear of mutual self-destruction - as was the case with the Soviets and to some extent with the Chinese - is exactly the opposite of what the Hojatieh want, fear or believe.

They would love mutual self-destruction to occur so that they create enough reason for their 12th Imam to return to the world and bring Islamic salvation.

Whenever you think of Iran think of this and understand that anything and everything you have held dear and reasonable about them NO LONGER HOLDS TRUE.

Pol Pot of Cambodia, who murdered millions of his own countrymen, some for simply having weak eyesight and wearing glasses (inference of being educated) was a Boy Scout and really sane compared to what we have at the helm in Iran.

And we quibble whether we should perhaps not bomb Iran and allow this bunch of lunatics to have nuclear weapons to implement their Hojatieh philosophies on the rest of the world.

re: #206 WhiteRasta

Wah, wah, wah...

Cry me a river.

Islamaphobia raises it's ugly head in eurabia:

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Ha. For once I just might agree with CAIR and call for the end of the word "Islamophobia". After all, a phobia is an irrational, persistent fear, and there is nothing at all irrational about the fear of Islam. To be wary of a genuine threat doesn't imply a phobia.

If anything "Islamophobia" is a dhimmi term. As in, the fear is irrational.

Golda Meir said, "There will never be peace in the Middle East until Israel's enemies love their children more than they hate us"

Same now as back then, perhaps even more so.

re: #211 Nevergiveup

re: #207 Cattt

I'm not sure why the general said that - maybe it's diplotalk. All I know is that Iran uses what it has now throughout the world, blowing people up here, there, and everywhere, smuggling and supplying terrorists. They are two-faced liars. They torture their own citizens. They talk as if they want to bring on Armageddon.

Call me a skeptic. I don't want them to have control of even one tiny nuke.

You must be one of them neo-cons I hear so much about. :)

Ha! Truthfully, though, I guess I've seen enough to know what could happen - what people are capable of. So many people live in a made up la la world, it amazes me we are on the same planet.

In a small meeting today, I happened to say "it could have happened to anyone" about a guy in prison for manslaughter. My two co-workers were shocked. Turns out I'm the only one who ever knocked a guy flat (in an altercation) onto a concrete floor, where a head could have been busted (but wasn't - only a couple ribs). They're used to me though. It's not a real meeting if I don't shock everyone at least once. Sigh.

re: #190 gop_patriot

re: #153 trailortrash

iran + nukes = [Link: www.trailortrash.us...]

Did you do that? It's amazing!

i wish, ive had it on my HDD for years :) crazy aint it lol

re: #197 MandyManners

(I really suck at troll-detection.)

Yeah, but you're a great bulldog, and really sweet too...

re: #201 bikermailman

re: #134 lucius septimius

re: #130 Ed Mahmoud's Sock Puppet

Casey Qasem and the Zogby's are non-Muslim Arabs who feel a greater affinity to the Arabs and Islam than they do their own country..

The voice of Shaggy? Say it ain't so!

Think that's bad? How about this?http://bloopers.hankhayes.com/ Warning: Language alert, but funny as hell. Will change your view of Kasey Kasem forever.

F-ing ponderous man, F-ing ponderous...

I wonder if it's even worth me posting this late in the thread, but here goes: 1) "Living" with a nuclear Iran seems to me to be the oxymoron of the millennium. 2) At least with our arms race with the ruskkies (M.A.D), they didn't want to die either, thus the deterrence. 3) The Iranians, their government, not their people are hell bent on world destruction, not domination. This is what their god tells them. What an I missing?

re: #213 phoenixgirl

You beat me to it. At least we think alike LOL

/that's what I get for reading from the bottom up

re: #213 phoenixgirl

re: #201 bikermailman

wow, ponderous man, f'n ponderous

Heh. Bob and Tom did a great spoof of that.

If Abizaid wants to equate the rulers of Iran with the rulers of the Soviet Union, he should tell us how many suicide warriors the Soviets organized, how many suicide bombers did they send on missions, how much did they publicly espouse and advocate for a death cult mentality, how much did they declare that they would like to see their homeland obliterated if their ideology survived, how much did they advocate something like the Hojatieh ideology which seeks the maximum death, destruction, and chaos in the world in order to bring the coming of the Mahddi so that Islam will rule the world? Abizaid needs to explain how this mentality of the rulers of Iran is just like the mentality of the Soviet leaders, if he wants to push the idea that Iran=Soviet Union, and that mutual assured destruction is the ticket to good results with Iran.

re: #214 lucius septimius

re: #207 Cattt

I commented on this earlier -- I don't trust the media, especially when they are representing the views of generals. They went out of their way to misrepresent Petraeus's comments in order to manufacture evidence to support their anti-war stance. I wouldn't put it past them to do the same here.

I would agree, otherwise, but the Abazaid has been a left darling for a while now, anyway. Already had me suspicious of him.

re: #220 Mich-again

Excellent point. I agree 100%!

A phobia is irrational.

re: #98 lucius septimius

"Sir, I don't know, actually": The fact that America's surrogate commander in chief, David Petraeus, could not say whether the war in Iraq is making America safer was all you needed to take away from last week's festivities in Washington. Everything else was a verbal quagmire, as administration spin and senatorial preening fought to a numbing standoff. . . .

It is not General Petraeus's job to make that determiniation. It is his job to run the operations in Iraq. Frank Rich may or may not know that. If he does know that, he is a dishonest weasel. If he doesn't know it, he really sucks at his job. Either way, Frank Rich has the perpetual appearance of fear on his face like he is a dog that has been beat too much, to paraphrase Bruce Springsteen.

re: #197 MandyManners

re: #116 MandyManners

Glad to clarify. A troll I am not.

My apologies. Part of my suspicion stemmed from your 5 comments in 14.5 months. (I really suck at troll-detection.)

No apologies necessary. I don't often comment on LGF, not that I don't want to, but that there are usually 25,000 comments by the time I arrive, and what I want to say has already been said, and said well. But if you see me in the future, I will try to be more clear, because my troll detection is not well honed either. Good conversation with you.

Usful Ijit

re: #230 bikermailman

re: #214 lucius septimius

re: #207 Cattt

I commented on this earlier -- I don't trust the media, especially when they are representing the views of generals. They went out of their way to misrepresent Petraeus's comments in order to manufacture evidence to support their anti-war stance. I wouldn't put it past them to do the same here.

I would agree, otherwise, but the Abazaid has been a left darling for a while now, anyway. Already had me suspicious of him.

He is the darling of the left, no doubt about that.

I now think even less of General A than I did before.
What if you're wrong, General?
Kind of a huge risk to take isn't it?
What part of Islamic Jihad don't you understand?
When a suicidal mentality rules a crazy screwed-up religion like Isam,
then there is no deterrence!
Thinking "They won't bomb us" is about as intelligent as "The tiger is out of the cage, but he sees my rifle, therefore I am safe from attack".
DUH.

re: #232 kevinmumaw

re: #98 lucius septimius

It is not General Petraeus's job to make that determiniation. It is his job to run the operations in Iraq. Frank Rich may or may not know that. If he does know that, he is a dishonest weasel. If he doesn't know it, he really sucks at his job.

But ... but ... isn't everyone supposed to express an opinion on everything? Isn't one person's views as good as another's? Isn't everyone equal? Aren't we all experts on everything? Isn't Petraeus saying he "doesn't know" going to lower the self esteem of others?

/confused

re: #233 Usful Ijit

I don't often comment on LGF, not that I don't want to, but that there are usually 25,000 comments by the time I arrive, and what I want to say has already been said, and said well.

I have been here for years, I had a different username earlier, but forgot my password while deployed so I started up again. Anyway, I suffer from the same. I usually log in when there are already 355 comments, and my point has been made 30 times already.

Allow me to commiserate.

re: #232 kevinmumaw

BotW reported that, later, Petraeus did answer the question, but not in the way Rich would have hoped:

Petraeus wouldn't say whether we were safer because his job is to carry out his mission, not to make policy. Later, however, he backtracked from this position:

Sen. Evan Bayh (D., Ind.): I thought you had an excellent, very candid response to Senator Warner's question, and that was, he asked you, going forward, the recommendations that you're making, will that make America safer. And you said that you could not answer that question because that was beyond the purview of your--beyond the scope of your responsibilities.

Petraeus: Well, I thank you, actually, Senator, for an opportunity to address that, frankly.

Candidly, I have been so focused on Iraq that drawing all the way out was something that for a moment there was a bit of a surprise. But I think that we have very, very clear and very serious national interests in Iraq. Trying to achieve those interests--achieving those interests has very serious implications for our safety and for our security. . . .

So I think the answer really, to come back to it, is yes.

So Petraeus first said he didn't think it was his place to say whether the country was safer, and later said that it is safer. The notion that "Petraeus couldn't say we are safer because he knows we are not" is nothing more than a product of Frank Rich's fevered mind.

re: #195 cosmo

The U.S. may be able to abide a nuclear Iran, but the U.S. isn't the nation those in control of Iran who "may not appear to be rational" have said should be wiped off the map...

Rebuttal: Ahmadinejad's nukes for U.S, not for Israel

Ahmadinejad's first public call for destroying Israel came at an Oct. 26, 2005, conference in Tehran to envision "The World Without Zionism." While the newly elected Iranian president's threats against the Jewish state were well recorded by the international media, his equally threatening calls for the destruction of the U.S. went virtually unnoticed.
[snip]
More chilling was the graphic displayed prominently in front of Ahmadinejad's podium and elsewhere throughout the conference. Until it was reproduced weeks later in my G2 Bulletin online intelligence newsletter, it had not been published in any Western media. It shows a giant hourglass with two cylindrical objects falling toward destruction – the first representing the U.S., the second representing Israel. In other words, it wasn't just a world without Zionism and Israel that Ahmadinejad and his friends in Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and other terrorist groups were envisioning. It was a world without the United States of America. And, if there is any significance to the graphic – and, I believe there is – the U.S. would be the first target.

I believe LGF had a thread or two on this.

re: #162 lucius septimius

"If you can't run a regression on it, it doesn't exist."

I don't know. I think of "irrationalism" as akin to an addiction...like Ulysses being attracted to the Siren song. Thus, even though one knows it's potentially destructive, one is nonetheless fatally attracted.

Once a paradigm is set in place, it becomes "the framework," and then all else falls into place. (You can develop algorithms that are self-defeating, yet which claim to do the exact opposite).

Take the Leftist media/academics, etc., they have been fatally attracted to the meme, the allure, of viewing the Israeli/Palestinian wars through the David vs Goliath prism. (That's, btw, another reason why I suspect Israel hasbara fails -- every time one wants to "set the record straight" the Israeli will re-invoke the "meme" -- the David and Goliath one -- and it acts as yet another re-inforcement (a reminder, a booster shot) of a myth for the non-Israelis...which simply serves to increase the addiction to the existing meme.

One of the "cures" (imo anyway) is to read the Tosaphot -- this is what I find -- you get into interpreting a passage like X, you get comfortable with that interpretation, it sounds "right" - then BANG -- you read an additional commentary, and everything suddenly changes, and you see a new framework...it's like an eigenstate -- caught in-between...but you can switch frameworks. I think it's what leads to flexible thinking...the breaking away from the alluring, addictive memes...(there are others also who are writing about the "sticky symbols" -- the things that "stick" in the mind.. I actually think that the Left has made the best use of "sticky symbols" -- false ones, but nonetheless "sticky." like that David and Goliath meme.)

re: #229 EE

Abizaid needs to explain how this mentality of the rulers of Iran is just like the mentality of the Soviet leaders, if he wants to push the idea that Iran=Soviet Union, and that mutual assured destruction is the ticket to good results with Iran.

I think he's sayin' it would just be Israel to ashes, a few cities gone "bottled sunshine" here, a mere tens of millions incinerated, and a few thousands of square miles with nuclear contamination -- while Iran in its entirety is turned into glass.

I guess we can live with that.

Is the guy crazy?

“Let’s face it, we lived with a nuclear Soviet Union, we’ve lived with a nuclear China, and we’re living with (other) nuclear powers as well.”

But they don't/didn't have "Stable Mabel" at the helm.

Has this idiot been paying ANY attention to the attitude of the Iranian leaders?

re: #239 lucius septimius

I was a staff officer for General Petraeus when he was CG for the 101st. These people are very seriously underestimating him. He is as sharp as they come. Worse yet, he is the epitome of integrity. His nickname in the 101st (amongst his staff) was "Diamond Dave" and "Professor Petraeus". You could absolutely not BS your way past him at any point. He knew more about my job than I did.

re: #244 kevinmumaw

re: #239 lucius septimius

I was a staff officer for General Petraeus when he was CG for the 101st. These people are very seriously underestimating him. He is as sharp as they come. Worse yet, he is the epitome of integrity. His nickname in the 101st (amongst his staff) was "Diamond Dave" and "Professor Petraeus". You could absolutely not BS your way past him at any point. He knew more about my job than I did.

The left would have to underestimate him, because they have no respect for anyone in the military.

re: #240 abolitionist

I believe LGF had a thread or two on this.

Followup:
RoP Leader Calls for Genocide
Hate Like an Iranian

re: #245 lucius septimius

I guess they are finding it difficult to hide their famous "loathing of the military". It worked for a year or two. Pathetic.

re: #248 kevinmumaw

re: #245 lucius septimius

I guess they are finding it difficult to hide their famous "loathing of the military". It worked for a year or two. Pathetic.

Worked on whom? I've never seen any evidence that the have ever felt anything but loathing for the military.

re: #3 Austin Conservative

Amen, brother!

re: #250 ploome hineni

Coast Guard, I believe...

When asked what planet he was standing on, General Abizaid ,on his third guess, was still not within 20 light years of the solar system of his actual residence.

I respect general's service but never liked his politics.

One thing these people forget and I'd like to ask them is:

Iranian regime uses CRANES to hang people, how can any sane person trust them with nukes?

re 250
Commanding General?

re: #250 ploome hineni

Commanding General.

re: #253 ploome hineni

oops. Stand corrected...not "coast guard." Is that an insult?

34 Carridine- LOLOL...I wonder how fast his check gets cashed and from whom...I have nevere seem before that retired generals would speak out against the sitting Pres of either party...There should be a year between their retirement and their employ.

re: #249 lucius septimius

Maybe a certain percentage of "moderate Democrats".