That there are enough brave people to stand up in this regards should give us some hope.

It is now almost impossible to report a crime against a Muslim short of murder. Does anyone doubt that Britain will soon make leaving Islam illegal?

Muslims want to kill people, how is this "news"

Too bad OJ doesn't convert to radical Islam he would fit right in with the whole knife to head bit.

Sad this is happening, BUT...the Brits have begged for this to happen by allowing hate-spewing people to go on the dole and by their total submission to all of their raving and ranting...I hope Britain can become Britain again instead of the mess it is now.

Okay..I'll be the first one to say it..

With friends like them...who needs....

How to keep 'em down on the farm ... kill 'em if they leave.

Tends to keep them in line.

oh yeah -- well Elizabeth Hasselbeck is even more scary!

-- B. Manalow

It's a death cult.
/RoPMA

Wow. Muslims want to kill apostates. Quel shockay.

/

These "friends" ought to be ashamed of being belong to an intolerant, murderous religion of "peace" from Mecca.

re: #5 SecretInternetDoucheBag

Too bad OJ doesn't convert to radical Islam he would fit right in with the whole knife to head bit.

Who says he hasn't?

Once again, this is why people are afraid to speak out against Islam. Muslims gain influence and social standing by intimidation, just like any common thugs.

That the West is unwilling to stand against them is a sign of some terrible cowardice and mindless adherence to principles of freedom of 'religion', regardless of the tenets of that 'religion' or the actions of its members.

PC translates first to cowardice, then to appeasement, and from there to defeat.

But try to tell people that. They'll think you're crazy and paranoid -- even while they dare not speak out against Islam.

Man, has Islam got a great scam going or what?

I'm shocked! Still wearing my kafir t-shirt!

#15 And still wearing my head!

Allah is not God. Allah is a PIECE OF CRAP.
Only PIECES OF CRAP want to be worshiped by people who are forced to do it.

The TRUE GOD, the REAL GOD, is the GOD OF FREEDOM. You worship HIM freely or not. It's up to your level of spiritual awareness.

Sorry for all the caps. I'm becoming a kozak rofl!

The Islamists at MPAC usually seethe over these documentaries. They're oddly silent on this one.

There's no compulsion in religion. They are not true muslims. They must be... simlums or something. Whatever the f*** that is. I don't know, I'm just making stuff up. But hey, Islam is perfectly peaceful, the guy in the clip is just paranoid. Go back to sleep, nothing to see here.

I was amazed at how quickly the Imam being interviewed claimed the Bible can be INTERPRETED to SUGGEST chastizing apostates just like the Hadiths DEMAND BEHEADING Islamic apostates.

Chapter and verse, dude, chapter and verse...

I'm waiting with baited breath...

I think anyone who lives in Britain has a serious problem, not only apostates.

re: #14 rtheyserius

Not only are people afraid to speak or bullied into silence by the multi-culti "enforcers" of the Left, now we have the UN concerned about the rise of Islamophobia in Europe . Never mind that the rise of anti-Islamic sentiment in Europe and around the world is a reaction to the open hostility of Muslims toward non-Muslims and their open agenda if Islamisation. But...leave it to the Lefties in the UN to only see bigotry against Muslims and not from them. Typical Leftist insanity.

The greatest mission field are the muslim's of Islam. This man has more courage than 1 milliion of the deceived. God bless this man who stands up to the demons.

Only the individual can think, and thereby create new values for society, nay, even set up new moral standards to which the life of the community conforms. ... The ideals which have lighted my way, and time after time have given me new courage to face life cheerfully, have been Kindness, Beauty and Truth. ~~(Albert Einstein, 1954)

I hope that those brave and courageous souls who decide for themselves their matters of faith or decide to follow a secular path blaze the trails for their brothers and sisters so that people of all faiths can be free from fear of religious oppression.

When you sup with the Devil, you better have a long spoon!

(Tristan Jones)

re: #21 ted

I think anyone who lives in Britain has a serious problem, not only apostates.

Yeah, they're just going around killing people at random over here. I can't walk outside the house without being attacked for not converting.

/

"Anyone"? Seriously?

OT: BWAHAHAHAHA!

Times to End Charges on Web Site


By RICHARD PÉREZ-PEÑA

Published: September 18, 2007
The New York Times will stop charging for access to parts of its Web site, effective at midnight tonight.

A Letter to Readers About TimesSelect The move comes two years to the day after The Times began the subscription program, TimesSelect, which has charged $49.95 a year, or $7.95 a month, for online access to the work of its columnists and to the newspaper’s archives. TimesSelect has been free to print subscribers to The Times and to some students and educators.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

re: #17 MigueldowninMexico

There is no God named allah!

Mohamed was a pedophile.

Jeez, is anyone really surprised by all of this?

Miguel, nice to see you on here again!

I've only gotten through about six minutes so far and it's good. What UK channel produced this show, does anyone know?

ROPMA

even if they don't KILL them per se, they still face large amounts of harrasment and/or intimidation from former "friends" and family. Islam is like the Hotel California, once you check in you can never leave.....

Off topic....
Another Mo' found guilty in Glasglow, and yes... yet another "student":
[Link: eye-on-the-world.blogspot.com...]

it could have been worse... it could have been 100% of all muslims in the world who want to kill all non-muslims for any reason..

therefore

don't worry about the 37% who think apostasy is a crime punishable by death in the UK.

logic much?

No one should keep an open mind about this.

If the police set up the camera to record the people throwing the rocks and such why weren't they then arrested?

re: #33 Phoenikz

I'm still laughing at that one!

re: #31 Tasty Beverage

I've only gotten through about six minutes so far and it's good. What UK channel produced this show, does anyone know?

[Link: www.channel4.com...]
Channel 4 Dispatches. Same program that had the "undercover mosque" thing, showing the extremist imams... afaik.

re: #39 MattMacD

re: #31 Tasty Beverage

I've only gotten through about six minutes so far and it's good. What UK channel produced this show, does anyone know?

[Link: www.channel4.com...]
Channel 4 Dispatches. Same program that had the "undercover mosque" thing, showing the extremist imams... afaik.

Wait, not "afaik", as it's on their site, even. Ahem.

The idea of apostacy in different religions in enlightening. Kind of like the idea of holy war. Crusades v. jihad. One of the more tiring moral equivalents. Robert Spencer, of course, has a great expose on this: [Link: www.amazon.com...]

The crusades were conducted despite the teachings of Christianity (turn the other cheek) and were at least in part a reaction to Arab expansionism (jihad) as anything else. In addition, it could be argued that the biggest victim of the crusades was a Christian nation itself (the Byzantine Empire with the sacking of Constantinople) than anyone else. The crusades were a series of campaigns that had no scriptural sanction.

In contrast, jihad is an officially approved Islamic activity, according to the Koran and the Haddiths, done as part of an explicit and official Islamic DUTY, and not DESPITE the better teachings of the religion.

Likewise, there is nothing in Christian scripture that advocates the harassment, much less the killing of an apostate, while Islam advocates the stoning of apostates. In Christianity, one is to love the infidel (convert through evangelism, if possible, but if not, there is no mention anywhere of in any way harming or doing anything against the non-believer save praying quietly for him/her soul). In Islam, one is to convert, conquer or kill the infidel.

Ask any Moral Equivalence Advocator (MEA) about these questions: what does the religion say about holy war, apostacism, treatment of non-believers, etc.? And if the MEA says: well, Christians used to kill Jews and Muslims and other Christians during the crusades, just respond: that was done DESPITE the scriptures, since nowhere in the New Testament are the crusades justified, not BECAUSE OF THEM, as in Islam, where jihad is explicitly talked about as an obligation of Muslims.

The New Testament in a larger sense never commands anyone to kill or harm those who do not accept the teachings of Christianity (your are to still love them), while Islam has specific proscriptions on how to deal with those who do not submit to Islam.

Similarly, the New Testament does not talk about killing or harming or subduing by force those who lose faith in Christianity. In contrast, Islam has specific suggestions, e.g. stoning and killing, with regard to how to deal with apostates.

Vive la difference!

we live in country where we respect people's choices. It is not right for any british muslim to harm in any way what so ever, to bully, to intimidate them, to threaten them, is all against muslim law. Islam does not allow this kind of behavior.

So why is it going on?

This is the lack of understanding of islam on the part of these muslims.

I think someone here has a real lack of understanding.

#39 MattMacD

Channel 4 Dispatches. Same program that had the "undercover mosque" thing, showing the extremist imams... afaik.

Thanks. Just when I hit "new comments" the narrator mentioned Dispatches and I was just about to post "Oh, nevermind, I think it's Channel 4."

re: #37 abbynorm

If the police set up the camera to record the people throwing the rocks and such why weren't they then arrested?

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]
See the latest episode, "Wasting Police Time".
Might be a little enlightening about how useless the police are in this country (not their fault though, it's the people who are running the show). But then, they're not even allowed to carry firearms. I see it as the natural direction things will go in for the police after that.

Ya know, if a person had been harassed like the guy in this video here in the USA he would have been shot dead and the cops would have given him a clap on the back.

Move over here buddy. The 2nd amendment is a beautiful thing!

he seems very nervous, and with good reason

Such a nice feel good interfaith fluff piece.

re: #41 WimbledonWomble

the reality and the ideal did not meet very offen jews were offen murdered in christian europe as well as in muslim countries but it was offen worse in medevil europe. some were sometime someone was always murdering jews. the why changed but the what never did

It really angers me that the journalist in all of his research did not approach "tarqiyya", nor explain "tarqiyya" to viewers.

Okay - so who is the first to note my spelling error?

re: #41 WimbledonWomble
Even in the Old Testament, if God commanded war, war was declared upon a specific enemy at a specific place and at a particular time. There is no blanket declaration of unending war against all unbelievers at as there is in islam.

JWM

This time the RoP strikes at the dentist office.
Does that surprise you?

The RoP strikes again!

re: #15 Attaboid

I'm shocked! Still wearing my kafir t-shirt!

Great T shirt idea. A T-shirt that just says Kafir---(you wouldn't believe what the spell check offered-------is that correct spelling? I would truly like your ideas

Maybe put a bulls eye on it.

Just curious, do you have ideas for jewelry?

Shameless commercial thang.

I apologize.

Mr. Z

OT Iran continues economic war on the value of the U.S. dollar:

From Agence France-Press
via Daily Times, Lahore, Pakistan
Tuesday, September 18, 2007

[Link: www.dailytimes.com.pk...]

TEHRAN, Iran -- Iran has massively cut down its dependence on the dollar in the face of US pressure over its nuclear programme and now 70 percent of its foreign assets are saved in other currencies or in gold, an official said on Monday.

"fter the strong fall in the dollar and the decision to transfer our foreign currency reserves into euros, we have taken measures and now 70 percent of Iranian assets are in euros, other currencies, or gold," said Deputy Economy Minister Mohammad Zahedi Vafa.

Iran had announced earlier this year it was switching out of dollars and would instead save its foreign assets in other currencies to dampen the effects of US pressure on its financial system.

The United States has been seeking to make international banking transactions harder for Iran as another tool to pressure Tehran into backing down over its controversial nuclear programme.

Several European banks have drastically cut business with Iran as result of pressure from the United States.

Caretaker Oil Minister Gholam Hossein Nozari has said that already 60 percent of Iran's oil transactions for export are carried out in euros.

Iran's foreign currency reserves held in banks abroad have risen by 37 percent over the past year to the equivalent of $65 billion as of the end of June 2007, the central bank said last week.

The world's fourth largest oil exporter and the second in OPEC has been helped by soaring crude prices, which are helping the country weather domestic economic problems.

re: #50 Said Infidel

Okay - so who is the first to note my spelling error?

You, of course. (It's ok)

re: #14 rtheyserius

Man, has Islam got a great scam going or what?

Cults main purpose...scamming.

oh, puh-lease!
this is just another example of European Islamophobia
just ask the UN
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

re: #57 FriarsTale

The sooner we can get the UN out of this country the better. Talk about Animal Farm...

re: #36 ROPMA

No one should keep an open mind about this.

Uhh..love the video. Thanks for sharing that. I am saving that one.

[Link: answering-islam.org.uk...]

I went looking for the word apostate and this is one web site I got. Perhaps older and wiser people than I can get entrance.

I have no clue what it means.

The other web site was an ad.

Go figure.

z

re: #57 FriarsTale

There is direct link between Islam and violence and here is the simple equation.

Islam = Terror.

Re #57 FriarsTale

Thanks for another Louise Arbour sighting defending the poor victims of Islamphobia. I sent it on to my fellow Canadians who are SO PROUD of her. (Actually, I'm afraid a lot of them are proud of her) We are polite and never want to offend anyone. That's why you can vote in a burqa here according to Elections Canada. We can't hurt your feelings or we would be RACIST. rant over.....for now.

T-shirts! T-shirts! Get your t-shirts here!

re: #62 yenta-fada

Do you think a Lib/Leftist would ever call residents of non-Western countries bigots for not allowing immigration, i.e. would Miss Arbour et al call the Japanese racists? Only we in the West have to accept immigration from the 3rd world and if we dare to oppose it we're bigots! If we tried to make the case for even a modicum of cultural preservation we'd be dismissed as xenophobic bigots.

re: #60 silversmith

Apostasy in Islam

re: #48 yochanan

re: #41 WimbledonWomble

the reality and the ideal did not meet very offen jews were offen murdered in christian europe as well as in muslim countries but it was offen worse in medevil europe. some were sometime someone was always murdering jews. the why changed but the what never did

You are absolutely right. Christians killed Jews with abandon until recently. In fact, it is absolutely correct to say that until the 20th century, Jews fared largely better in Muslim countries than in Christian ones, despite the Jizya and often far worse in Muslin nations. This is one of the sad facts of history.

Yet it is also true that Christian anti-Semitism was never scripturally based, even though the Church was often guilty of whipping it up. On the one hand, the Church appreciated avoiding the scriptural injunction against charging interest on loans by employing Jew as middlemen. On the other hand, while many Kings protected Jews, and sometimes the Church tried to moderate anti-Semitism, the overall history of treatment of Jews in Christian countries is deplorable. However, despite all of this, there is nothing in Christian scripture that advocates the persecution of Jews. So anti-Semitism in Christian countries occurred DESPITE but NOT BECAUSE OF the teachings of the New Testament.

In contrast, in Muslim countries, second-class treatment of non-Muslims was a part of the dictates of Islam. People of the Book - Christians and Jews - were to be treated as second class citizens, while other non-Muslims were to be treated even worse.

That is history now. Christianity evolved beyond the prejudice that accreted around it but was not sanctioned by the original Christian doctrines. This was facilitated by the fact that Christianity does not have any intrinsic scriptural injunctions against non-Christians to contend with, except in that attempts should be made to spread the word (although there are no statements made about how to deal with those who do not convert). Christian nations thus persecuted Jews without any explicit scriptural instruction, although anti-Semitic Christians clearly tried to make the case that Jews were Christ-killers, etc. Islam, on the other hand, has explicit doctrines regarding non-Muslims that go beyond simple attempts to convert and deal with what to do with those who do not convert/submit to Islam.

re: #66 WimbledonWomble

IMHO Islam cannot be reformed. They would have to throw out all of their scriptures and I mean all, to make it possible but we know that is not going to happen. Not peacefully that is. In the end it will be them or us.

Islamophobic and proud of it.

#64 DerKrieger

Political correctness will be the last thing to go. It's just too embarassing to complain when your butt is in the way of the Islamofascist boot.

ty piglet

re: #63 DerKrieger

T-shirts! T-shirts! Get your t-shirts here!

I just love a shameless plug.

bedtime for bonzo here g'night all

zzzzzz

re: #52 farang kheemao

Good find. Hopefully Charles sees this.

Nothing drives the point home quite like the exchange with
the imam at the end of the video -- if you haven't got time
for the whole thing, just watch the final conversation, about
the last two minutes.

paraphrasing the exalted cyclops of UK muslims:
... there is a tendency to forget that 63% do not favor the
death penalty for apostasy...

rather only beatings, vandalism, and otherwise intimidation.

Oh boy, I feel so comfortable now.

... it could have been worse: 95% could have favored death
for apostasy...

ocelot

re: #52 farang kheemao

This time the RoP strikes at the dentist office.
Does that surprise you?

The RoP strikes again!

haha you see the guy's name?

Accused: Omer Butt

" When Mu'ath reached the camp of Abu Musa, the latter (received him and) said: Please get yourself down; and he spread for him a mattress, while there was a man bound hand and foot as a prisoner. Mu'ath said: Who is this? Abu Musa said: He was a Jew. He embraced Islam. Then he reverted to his false religion and became a Jew. Mu'ath said: I won't sit until he is killed according to the decree of Allah and His Apostle (may peace be upon him)(in this case). Abu Musa said: Be seated. It will be done. He said: I won't sit unless he is killed according to the decree of Allah and His Apostle (may peace be upon him). He repeated these words thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered him (to be killed) and he was killed. (2).

Footnote (2): This clearly shows that if an apostate insists on apostasy and does not revert to Islam, he should be killed."

Sahih Muslim, Revised Edition, by Imam Muslim, rendered into English by 'Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, Vol. III, ISBN 81-7231-450-7 (Set), 2003. Islamic Book Service, Inc. 136 Charlotte Avenue, Hicksville, NY 11801.

re: #73 Highrise

I mentioned that fact to the newspaper but I think I am on their bad guy list.

i

re: #71 justadot

Actually my wife, who is English, found this one.
Credit it to Julie, alias Vendor Girl

re: #76 Farang Kheemao

Send her my thanks. You have mine already. I'm so angry about it — I can't even make fun of the dentist's name. And Butt's clinic is in Bury?

This is what the NHS offers?! Shariah?

I saw the bottom of the article where he was stopped by the police earlier this year, and he asked if they were racists………it's best I not say anything right now.

Thanks to you both for the find. I better stop now.

re: #77 justadot

I really hope these stories get out like this so people seriously think what kind of *professional* they choose to give advice, especially in regards to health.

I would never knowingly choose a muslim doctor nor dentist. I want them far far away from me....

re: #77 justadot

re: #76 Farang Kheemao

Send her my thanks. You have mine already. I'm so angry about it — I can't even make fun of the dentist's name. And Butt's clinic is in Bury?

This is what the NHS offers?! Shariah?

I saw the bottom of the article where he was stopped by the police earlier this year, and he asked if they were racists.........it's best I not say anything right now.

Thanks to you both for the find. I better stop now.

She is afraid to take me back to the old country because I won't keep my mouth shut, and she is afraid I will be arrested.

re: #78 Highrise

Oops..instead of to give advice, should say get advice from

Here's an irony: As muslim converts to Christianity are being harrassed and assaulted in Europe, United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Louise Arbour said on Monday that bigotry and prejudice, especially in regard to Muslims, were common in Europe and called on governments to tackle the issue.

re: #78 Highrise

It's frightening that you might get stuck with a Mr. Butt and not have any other option. Who the hell is he dictate this to his patients?

re: #81 Honzik

Islamists who complain about intimidation and prejudice remind me of the bank robber's explanation of why he shot and killed the bank guard: "I shot in self-defense! The guy pulled his gun on me!" Some people have no understanding of basic morality; of right and wrong. When you are robbing a bank, you have no claim of self-defense. When you are waging Jihad against Jews, Christians, Polytheists, Infidels, Apostates and Disbelievers, you have no right to complain about people being "prejudiced" against you!

Dear Mr. Hussein and family,

God bless you and your family, and watch over you and other converts that choose to leave Islam. Your courage and determination humble me as a lifelong Christian. Please don't worry, you're free to leave Christianity and any other religion in the world except Islam, without fear of violence or death.

Before I die, if I ever have a chance to visit the UK, it would be an honor and a pleasure to meet you and your blessed family.

Sincerely,

The Loving Infidel World

re: #79 Farang Kheemao

It's a worthy fear. Even self-defense can get you in trouble there. I really feel for you, especially after seeing the topic's video. I wonder if anything like this is happening on some scale near Dearborn. Govenment concessions to Islam are already making head-way.

It'd be difficult for me to keep my mouth shut, too.

re: #82 justadot

re: #78 Highrise

It's frightening that you might get stuck with a Mr. Butt and not have any other option. Who the hell is he dictate this to his patients?

I couldn't agree more.

I guess it doesn't surprise me..you are talking to a gal (me) who had to put up with my babe's pediatrician lecturing me on how I am going to kill my baby if I let her sleep with me and also that I need to get rid of all my guns. Of course her bad medical advice later almost killed my kid....I fired her ass.

I've also had doctors nearly kill me. One time it was so bad the cops came after me to get me to come back to the hospital. I had a dentist that did not believe in novacaine and ridiculed me for even asking for it. The drilling was so bad that his office staff that was helping him, quit. I was crying (I don't cry easy either) and the poor gal was yelling at him to stop.

I'm used to thier high and mighty stupid stuff....to say I was angry in what all I've taken from docs and dentists, is an understatement.

re: #85 justadot

It'd be difficult for me to keep my mouth shut, too.

Yes yes, if I grew up in iran or saudi, I'd have been dead by now.

re: #36 ROPMA

No one should keep an open mind about this.

Excellent!

FireFox users: There's a neat little add-on called "Download Helper" that lets you download the actual video (not just its link), for viewing any time, even after it's gone from YouTube, Brightcove, or a number of others. The link is here. The extension on these files is ".flv" and if you're on a mac, you might have to download a special player here. Both are free.

Doesn't work for "motionbox" (Charles's video above) yet.

re: #85 justadot

I am a 30 year military veteran (2 tours of Nam and also Desert Storm)and I really get biased against enemies of this country. So, you wouldn't expect me to be nice to the people trying to bury us. In fact, put me to work behind a Barrett, and I would feel at home again. One Shot, One Kill, maybe 2.

re: #86 Highrise

I had a dentist almost break my jaw taking out my wisdom teeth, but he at least gave me a shot first. Damn.

And, in a related issue, I do understand why so many here choose to home school. Best not to let the government choose for you.

re: #87 Highrise

I learned that back when I was ~6 years old. I had a friend who had lived in Saudi Arabia. His dad was in the petro industry. His mom couldn't drive a car there, and they couldn't bring a Bible. A few years later in 1979, everything became clear to me from watching TV news:

• Iranian revolution and hostage taking
• seizure of the Grand Mosque in Mecca.

Even then, I paid attention.

Later, you'll remember that Khomenei blamed the seizure in Mecca on the Americans, when it was really Wahhabists who did it — even bin Laden's half-brother was supposedly one of them. The next day, the American embassy in Pakistan was burned down.

That let me know where I, a lone kafir, stand in their eyes — Sunni or Shia — I will always be an infidel.

I turned 10 years old that month of November…

re: #89 Farang Kheemao

I would not call your viewpoint biased by your tours of duty...thank you by the way :) .

I would call you a patriot for your views...hands down.

Our forefathers would have tarred and feathered these freaks.....I have no doubt. When they fought for the Constitution, I doubt they had this type of talk in mind.

re: #89 Farang Kheemao

I salute you. I only did a 3-and-17 as an 11B in the 82d, but it was the best time of my life.

re: #89 Farang Kheemao

Many thanks to you and everyone putting on the uniform. Let me know when you need more ammo.

The man and his family are heroes. When will our governments realize that it is these types of people they MUST support instead of the noisy radicals.

re: #53 silversmith

There are many being sold that say just that. In Arabic, with or without "Infidel".

re: #95 Reluctant Democrat

Governments tend to marginalize their fighting forces. Except when they actually need to rely on them, then the flag waving starts. Between conflicts don't even mention a pay increase or enough funding to train properly.

re: #78 Highrise

re: #77 justadot

I really hope these stories get out like this so people seriously think what kind of *professional* they choose to give advice, especially in regards to health.

I would never knowingly choose a muslim doctor nor dentist. I want them far far away from me....

I would leave instantly if I had a muslim doctor who in any way expressed their religion. Any way whatsoever. I do not care one bit if I was accused of being "racist" or anything like that. Screw them. If they can't do their damn job without letting their religious fanaticism affect it, then I want a different doctor. I just can't trust the intelligence of someone who passionately follows that death cult. Death cult! Medicine! The two don't mix! To see that, you just have to notice the doctors becoming jihadists.

But I have a history of walking out when unhappy with doctors/psychologists when they piss me off. :) (I'm not crazy though, honest (okay, maybe a little))

My mother had a muslim doctor once, apparently. He treated her very rudely.

re: #92 justadot
I bet it was the best time of your life.
I went in when I was 21 and retired when I was 51. Older and wiser, and after spending 6 months in the KSA, during the Gulf War, my eyes really opened up to the evil that islam really is. I was the photographer that traveled with Colin Powell during his last visit to the ME and I got to see the inside to the Saudis that most people don't ever get to see. Actually I wasn't a official photographer for the USAF, I was actually a weapons load crew chief on the F4-G. Being a little older than my younger troops I found other off time experiences other than video tapes of Laverne and Shirley. My friends were the people in Public Affairs. I used my spare time to work with them. (In college my degree was in photojournalism) I had more experience than they did so I went with Colin. WOW! I can't even tell you what the experience was like......... Flew on AF One, even. More stories later.

re: #86 Highrise

I've also had doctors nearly kill me.

I had a traditional chinese medicine "doctor" almost kill me. Gave me cow bezoar medicine for a throat infection, had an allergic reaction (itchiness, etc.)...

Went another time (no, I didn't realise what it was, my wife didn't tell me it wasn't western medicine, she didn't tell me because she knew I would say no, bah), they gave me the same medicine!
What happened? I almost died! Anaphylactic shock.
What did the doctor say about it? That it happened because I was afraid of the medicine!
And apparently those doctors work in normal (western medicine) hospitals, as well, when they're not working with traditional chinese medicine.
Lesson learnt: don't trust chinese doctors.
Other lesson learn: "culture" should not mean "protected ideas". Some parts of some cultures are very, very dangerous, and should not be kept around just because people are emotionally invested in them.

re: #100 MattMacD

Lesson learnt: don't trust chinese doctors.

Btw, just to clarify that apparently extreme statement, I mean, don't trust chinese doctors in China. :) (obviously you can trust the ones who are qualified to work in western countries)
Because the doctors over there can be doctors in traditional chinese medicine, which is really just religious belief, in my opinion.
Plus, well, even the normal hospitals are generally crappy over there. :p

re: #99 Farang Kheemao

I'll be ready to listen for sure. Thank you for that - wow. May have some questions for you if you're around.

I'm off to try to sleep, but it was great meeting you. Take care.

// great nic you have, too

Islamic States "protect" their religious freedoms apostates, but they often ignore a predicate to faith - freedom of conscience. The Koran supposedly recognizes this by writing "there is no compulsion in religion" but it is apparent that a significant majority of Muslims give this rule short shrift.

re: #103 l'omega

Taqiyya from Moslems when they speak of Sura 2.256 "let there be no compulsion in religion" to contend that Islam 'protects freedom of conscience.' That Sura and over 124 other verses were abrogated by the Sword Verse (Koran 9.5) and others which specifically call upon Moslems to wage jihad by either forcibly converting, subjugating or killing non-Moslems.

I've read the Koran (well most of it anyway) & it is true that it says that there is no compulsion in religion, & let's hope that this view gets more supporters.

However, to say that this is the overarching view of the Koran is complete B.S. One line says "there is no compulsion..." hundreds say "convert or kill your enemies...".

So much for the death cult.
Leave -get killed
Stay - be a suicide bomber

Islam is paranoid. If it was a self-assured, confident religion it would have no problems with converts (it would feel it could win them back with words, not threats). If it felt confident about its doctrines and practices, it wouldn't want to sneakily impose sharia on non-Muslim countries. If it felt its prophet was an honorable man, its followers wouldn't riot the moment he was criticised.

No other religion acts this way. Muslims may be the sweetest, nicest people you could wish to meet, but Islam is a scourge. A throwback to a less civilised era, that never moved with the times.

What a tragic story, got to feel some sympathy for the guy.

But as someone who lived in England at one time. I fully expect it to resemble Yugoslavia within the next 20 years, after the break up that is.
Expect Islamic ethnic cleansing to occur in Luton, Bradford and large swaths of Birmingham and midlands.

There'll probably be some wonderful euphemistic statements from Whitehall too, something along the lines of 'areas of special social cohesion. Where it is far too insensitive to apply the law of the UK and a 'two tier' approach of regional devolution is necessary'. In other words entire regions under Sharia law with no accountability to central government.

The BBC and Guardian would just love that (!)

re: #108 splat

Expect Islamic ethnic cleansing to occur in Luton, Bradford and large swaths of Birmingham and midlands.

Depending on your definition of ethnic cleansing, you could say that's happening already. But it's hard to tell whether that's intentional, or just a result of Islam's followers being anti-british (or any civilised culture) and repelling everyone else who lives here.
Ya know, their violence, threats, forced conversion attempts (dating girls just to brainwash them), all that crap.

but, but , do you think that's going on only in Britain or in any place where there is no CCTV on mosques and no re-education of Muslims community? How many Muslims in the US now? especially Michiganistan? Let me remember when the deceased madman Khomainy ordered death to Sir. Rushdie, remember what happened? if not read about it, for reference look wikipedia, and see the victims who were not-muslims and not-ex-muslims.

I m not living in Britain, there are very few muslims here, yet be hold I can't go public, because I know the reality, when there is no re-education and no CCTV in mosques, there is no peace. keeping low profile is the best in the current situation, and when ex-muslims become much larger, then it will be the time for publicity. When you keep low profile, you can get through muslim community and push for your ideas, or make new ex-muslims, or give tips about terrorists.

By the way, you ll hear some Imams, or that 64% saying there is no punishment on apostates, but hey I heard that, and heard them say but death punishment applies only to apostates of Islam who go around and tell "lies" about Islam . you know they call that Kafir Harby (Kafir in War). so when one want answers from Muslims should ask them what you think of one convert and goes around express his/her views of why he/she left Islam, and try to refute Islam. that's the question that will get you higher percentage than 36%.

re: #110 iraqihere

but, but , do you think that's going on only in Britain

Yup, happening all over the west. I think they make it difficult for people to recognise it in their own countries simply because they all congregate in the same area - all the other people start to leave.
So we're not living in the areas where Islam is making things crap. I know I'm not. Nice, small UK town. No cultural problems at all.
So I could ignore it if I wanted to. Because I just don't see it. Most of us only hear about that stuff in the news.
But I know better than that.

Robert Spencer, on p.149 of Onward Muslim Soldiers, speaking about certain of Muhammad's statements in the Hadith, wrote:

Muslims who study Hadith give a statement a presumption of authenticity if it appears even once in [the Hadith collections called] Bukhari or Muslim;...repetitions and...presence in a third respected Hadith collection make its authenticity virtually certain. The repetitions are attested by different chains of transmission, suggesting that Muhammad said this on numerous occasions, or to many different people, or both.

(Spencer's footnotes left out)

With that in mind, I present below four of the hadiths (from two collections considered canonical by Muslims) in which Muhammad commands death to apostates from Islam. This list is not exhaustive:

Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:

Narrated Ikrima:

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Narrated 'Ikrima:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
Narrated 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

Abu Dawud, Book 39, Number 4487:
Narrated Uthman ibn Affan:

AbuUmamah ibn Sahl said: We were with Uthman when he was besieged in the house. There was an entrance to the house. He who entered it heard the speech of those who were in the Bilat. Uthman then entered it. He came out to us, looking pale.

He said: They are threatening to kill me now. We said: Allah will be sufficient for you against them, Commander of the Faithful! He asked: Why kill me? I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: It is not lawful to kill a man who is a Muslim except for one of the three reasons: Kufr (disbelief) after accepting Islam, fornication after marriage, or wrongfully killing someone, for which he may be killed.

I swear by Allah, I have not committed fornication before or after the coming of Islam, nor did I ever want another religion for me instead of my religion since Allah gave guidance to me, nor have I killed anyone. So for what reason do you want to kill me?

(my bolding)

"Only" about half of British Muslims want Islamic law in the UK.

"Only" about 5 to 9 percent of British Muslims -- 80,000 to 145,000 UK Muslims -- agree that terror is a legitimate means to get to Islamic law in the UK.

"Only" about 1 percent of British Muslims -- about 16,000 -- are interested in participating directly in terror against the UK.

Islamics would kill their own mothers, fathers, sisters, and brothers... and have many many times over just in the last couple of decades, much less throughout history. Spilling blood is in their blood. They revel in it. They live for it. They die for it. They're heathen savages living in the stone age. As a society, they've contributed NOTHING good to this world in thousands of years.

So, why wouldn't they kill their friends for leaving Islam? It's to be expected demanded.

re: #22 DerKrieger

re: #14 rtheyserius

Not only are people afraid to speak or bullied into silence by the multi-culti "enforcers" of the Left, now we have the UN concerned about the rise of Islamophobia in Europe . Never mind that the rise of anti-Islamic sentiment in Europe and around the world is a reaction to the open hostility of Muslims toward non-Muslims and their open agenda if Islamisation. But...leave it to the Lefties in the UN to only see bigotry against Muslims and not from them. Typical Leftist insanity.

Whatever happened to the Lefty obsession with "root causes"?

What no hat-tip Charles? The injustice! The humiliation! I'm seething!
/british humour

The word islamophobia is getting tired.

When humanity feared the dark, it sought light
Fear of falling? Parachutes and guard-rails.
Fear of spiders? Bug spray.
Fear of elevators? Escalators.

Fear of islam? Oooh Embrace it and let it take over.

No. Like any thing else that can HURT you, fear of the religion that KILLS you if you don't participate is a natural reaction - now just need a spray or something....

Its good to see this reality considering that most of the time the media is trying to cover up the true nature of islam. Its like what the New York Times used to do with the outrageous % of crimes committed by people who are black in NYC. The NYT, in their elite and condescending wisdom, would not want to rile up all those white racists by reporting alot of stories with black perpetrators so they simply stopped reporting the skin color of the criminal. They rationalized it publicly by saying it had nothing to do with the crime and that the greater reading public was probably not going to actually identify and find the alleged criminal and therefore did not need identifying characteristics.
If people knew the facts about islam contained in this story they would be rightly concerned. The problem is that while a "mere"10% of muslims are radicalized most of the rest of the muslim population is sympathetic and will assist in both an active and passive manner.

I have absolutely no idea whether or not these are honest sites and not taqqiya, but some muslims are making noises like they have had enough of their coreligionists' thuggish ways. I don't know if reform is possible in Islam but these folks sound as if they want it to happen.

The Committee for Ex-Muslims wants to make it safer to leave Islam than it was for the fellow in the video at the top of this post. The Free Muslims Coalition has figured out that freedom of religion here in the states is a good thing and want to buy in.

Any Lizards know whether these are seriously a sign of progress, however small, or a scam?

So at about 1:20 min when they're talking about the grafitti on the front wall and the interviewer points to "Jew dog" and says "what's that all about." And this guy says something like it's just a really offensive term and denotes someone who is subhuman... so this guy is highly offended by being referred to as anything related to Jewish? He talks like it's just understood and taken for granted like a baseline. Good on him for following his beliefs, but in a way the attitudes are sort of nauseating.

re: #35 so.cal.swede

it could have been worse... it could have been 100% of all muslims in the world who want to kill all non-muslims for any reason..

therefore

don't worry about the 37% who think apostasy is a crime punishable by death in the UK.

logic much?

Actually that was the argument put forward by one of those increasingly rare breed of muslims a "moderate." He argued that 36% wasn't too bad. After all 63% don't think apostates should be put to death. Though quite what penalty they have in mind remains unclear. Perhaps stoning into submission?

Obviously not a BBC production

re: #66 WimbledonWomble

Sorry, Christian anti-Semitism is based on scripture, on the work of Paul and his disciples. These men wrote 80 percent of the New Testament, and rewrote the Gospels to the point that Jesus, Mary, and Joseph wouldn't recognize a thing.

I do not care to get into a theological dispute with fellow lizardoids, but suffice it to say that Christians believe that anyone who rejects their doctrine is condemned (in varying degrees). Jews have no similar doctrine (other than perhaps the right to say, after the end of days, "see, we told you so".)

This doctrine, and the doctrine of "supersession" (I hope I have that spelling right) in which Christianity is alleged to supersede Judaism, is really all that Christian bigots throughout history have needed.

re: #119 Sunlight

I've no idea as to how legitimate such groups are, but here's some indication of the immensity of the problem: the Koran.

On the site of one 'reforming' group, they've listed those verses from the Koran which they say they wish to see excised because these verses are "promoting divisiveness and religious hatred and bigotry and discrimination. The list runs to eleven full, tightly worded pages:

http://www.reformislam.org/verses.phpnull

I can't imagine any other belief system having to, in effect, emasculate its central 'holy' text in order to become socially viable and tolerable. There's also the problem that old Mo is the party responsible for 'revealing' all this hatred to the world from his deity; ignoring Mo would mean pretending his last 10 years of life as a warlord never existed. Also, since there doesn't seem to be any move by the major schools of islamic jurisprudence to discuss these verses, I can but wish these would-be reformers luck, but the rest of us should work on de-classifying Islam as a religion, reclassifying it as a political ideology, and then moving on to proscription and deportation.

As to just reading the Koran through from cover to cover, it helps to know about Abrogation (the understanding that certain verses are superceded in relevance by others). This article deals with that and addresses the old taqiyya about "no compulsion in islam":

http://www.meforum.org/pf.php?id=1754

re: #122 Mardukhai

The differences between Christianity and Islam are that, firstly, Christianity as expressed through the words and lives of Jesus Christ and His Apostles in the New Testament, does not, in any way, call upon the faithful to forcibly convert, subjugate in a persecuted status or kill, any who are not Christians.

The words and life of Muhammad and his 'companions', are affirmation of, and compliance with, all the bigotry, hatred and violence expressed explicitly in the Koran and the ahadith.

The atrocities committed by Christians throughout the centuries, in the name of their faith, are a sinful contradiction of Christ's teachings. When Moslems commit atrocities, they do in faithful adherence to the Koran's teachings and Muhammad's "excellent model of conduct" (Koran 33:21), his "exalted standard of character" (Koran 68:4) and that "he who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad), obeys Allah" (Koran 4:80).

Anytime anyone starts in with the old 'moral equivalence' argument, I always drag out Mo from the depths. Surely, you've noticed how silent the media is about him and Moslems so hysterical whenever non-Moslems show him any attention?

Just to state the obvious... all the harassments this guy and his family received, death threats/slander/arson/property damage etc was carried out well... essentially by terrorists to force this person to change. The whole article is proof positive that islam breeds terrorism, after all terrorism doesn't always have to be an IED or suicide attack~more often it is very personal one-on-one coercion, harm or outright murder. In this case the perpetrators were abject cowards IMO.

re: #36 ROPMA

No one should keep an open mind about this.

Great video!

The concept of god in Islam is very tied into Mohamed himself, very jealous , petty & vindictive.
If you manufactured a faith like Ol Mo it would reflect a lot of yourself.
If you are a kind & moral person your religion would reflect that. The difference is that you would know that it is no more than an academic exercise. Mohamed was crazy enough to convince himself that his delusions were real, Something like a billion people have bought into this delusion & many are willing to murder for it.

re: #122 Mardukhai

re: #66 WimbledonWomble

Sorry, Christian anti-Semitism is based on scripture, on the work of Paul and his disciples. These men wrote 80 percent of the New Testament, and rewrote the Gospels to the point that Jesus, Mary, and Joseph wouldn't recognize a thing.

I do not care to get into a theological dispute with fellow lizardoids, but suffice it to say that Christians believe that anyone who rejects their doctrine is condemned (in varying degrees). Jews have no similar doctrine (other than perhaps the right to say, after the end of days, "see, we told you so".)

This doctrine, and the doctrine of "supersession" (I hope I have that spelling right) in which Christianity is alleged to supersede Judaism, is really all that Christian bigots throughout history have needed.

do you already feel better having used the words christian and bigot in the same sentence?,.....do you sir feel you have the proper credintials to speak for all christians?.......you donnot speak for me so i would appreciate it if you would simply stfu......

I will pray for this former muslim and his family. Jesus Christ is Lord.

For every muslim convert there is also a muslim leaving islam. This is fact.

The atrocities committed by Christians throughout the centuries, in the name of their faith, are a sinful contradiction of Christ's teachings. When Moslems commit atrocities, they do in faithful adherence to the Koran's teachings and Muhammad's "excellent model of conduct" (Koran 33:21), his "exalted standard of character" (Koran 68:4) and that "he who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad), obeys Allah" (Koran 4:80).

Well put. I will use this in my argument concerning Christian violence in history and comparing it to islamic violence which has never stopped.

Firstly, in regards to someone leaving Christianity, the Bible is very clear in Paul's writings. If they leave, we are to pray for them. Praying to God for someones salvation is what Christians do. Christianity requires a change in the heart and that change is beyond the reach of any human compulsion.

Secondly, there are many cities in the US where this same problem of muslims attacking or killing muslim converts to Christianity exists. Does Dearborn, MI ring a bell to anyone? Wherever there are large concentrations of muslims, you will have this kind of behavior.

It is beyond debate, when 36% of muslims in Britain want to kill apostates. That is every third person. But of course, we should be comforted that it is not 95% of them?!?!?!?! The Iman's statement shows a lack of intelligence or am alternative agenda. Which do you think it is?

Does anyone have the contact info for the guy who came up w/ the bumperstickers/thirts, etc that say: "Jesus, Save me from your Followers" ? I think I have a great idea for the sequel...

Yeah...BUT...watch it all and about a 3rd way through you notice that his sub-text is that it's all the fault of wicked Christians for inducing Muslims to convert...especially the...God forbid. "AMERICAN EVANGELICALS". These, he is saying, are the REAL villains. Don't blame the gang of men who try to lynch a woman armed with hammers and knives because she has renounced Islam , because ...yes, as always, non-Muslims and especially Americans are the ones who are really to blame.

re: #119 Sunlight

And this guy says something like it's just a really offensive term and denotes someone who is subhuman... so this guy is highly offended by being referred to as anything related to Jewish?

I saw that and played it back. Seemed to me that his statement could be taken two ways: one is the way you took it, the other is that that was what the muslims who wrote it meant. Since "Christian dog" is a similar, albeit less disparaging, remark to a muslim, I tend (and hope) that it's the latter.

re: #85 justadot

Over here, the law's been changed that much it's hard to know what you can get done for. I can assure you that when it comes to the crunch, we brits will use self-defence and some more.

Going onto something different, It seems that there's a new Racial and Religious law coming into force over here next month. According to this article the law is so diluted that it will hard to get convictions for anything but intentional crimes.

What UK lizards needs to note that this affects writing on blogs as well. To quote the article:

The new offence can be committed by broadcasting, writing in a blog or on a website, recording sounds which are threatening, or in the performance of a play if there is an intent to stir up religious hatred.

Hopefully we will still get access to LGF and related blogs going by the article, to quote:

A separate Order, also in force from October 1, protects information society services like ISPs and search engines. While it makes clear that a UK-based ISP can commit an offence under the Act anywhere in Europe, it also protects these businesses when they are acting as mere conduits or offering caching or hosting services. The Order also explains the circumstances in which a service provider established in another European state can be prosecuted in the UK.

Islam And Violence
The following passage can be found here.

Islamic texts encourage terror and fighting to a far larger degree than the original texts of other religions, concludes [Danish linguist] Tina Magaard. She has a PhD in Textual Analysis and Intercultural Communication from the Sorbonne in Paris, and has spent three years on a research project comparing the original texts of ten religions. “The texts in Islam distinguish themselves from the texts of other religions by encouraging violence and aggression against people with other religious beliefs to a larger degree. There are also straightforward calls for terror. This has long been a taboo in the research into Islam, but it is a fact that we need to deal with," says Tina Magaard. Moreover, there are hundreds of calls in the Koran for fighting against people of other faiths. “If it is correct that many Muslims view the Koran as the literal words of God, which cannot be interpreted or rephrased, then we have a problem. It is indisputable that the texts encourage terror and violence..." says Tina Magaard.

re: #133 AliAbDab

Yeah...BUT...watch it all and about a 3rd way through you notice that his sub-text is that it's all the fault of wicked Christians for inducing Muslims to convert...

Maybe. But the way the video ends doesn't convey that message. The ending is great. (By the way, is that where the show really ended? Or do we just have an excerpt here that continues elsewhere?) The interviewer, in a very understated way that makes the point all the more effective, manages at the end to convey that the "benign" imam is a ridiculous and dangerous nut telling us all is more or less well even though the house is burning down. But I'm assuming that's where the video ends -- if the show continued from that point, the scene would not amount to the alarming finale it seemed to be.

Even more depressing to me than the thuggery of the RoPeons is the lack of official action or presence in these areas and specifically the larger society not standing up and taking charge of these idiots.

I've heard there are areas in Britain where muslims have basically thrown out civil society and law enforcement. Looks like that's true, and I can't believe Brits are allowing this in their country.

Time for several rousing choruses of "Rule Britannia" and some serious whupping....

re: #135 cagney

Thanks for the link. I don't doubt the will of many Brits to fight — that's been demonstrated time and time again. I'm certain that Brit Lizards and like-minded citizens can and will take action when necessary. I wish you all the best.

But I don't want your government (or mine) removing options that should be left open to any free citizen - whether it's which dentist to visit or how to deal a flammable jihadi doctor.

Still reading from your link and here.

re: #139 justadot

I was referring to our right to self-defence. The law is such a mess concerning it. There is no definite answer to what is permissible or not but when you've got some maniac trying to do you in, you can't think of these things.

As to this the hatred law, from the wiki link, it looks like it's been through the wars and no doubt since it's been so controversial, it should be watered down.

There is a possibility that this legislation could be used to curtail or silence criticism of Islamic extremism and this is a dangerous thing.

re: #140 cagney

I agree - this law is so confusing. When I first read it, I thought that this will be still be used to go after anti-jihadist bloggers. Or they could be threatened with it by spurious complaints.

I am thankful for that free speech exemption in the law, but now I'm left wondering what "the clearest-cut cases" could be. And reading more of the law as it is now probably won't clear that up.

But look on the bright side... 2/3 of us DON'T want to murder you...

Doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.

I watched the show live and recorded it. Sad to say 24 hrs later I cannot remember if that is where it ends. Unlike you, though, I thought the imam had a point about the cup being two-thirds full rather than one third empty. what bothered me more, as is always the case with these clowns, is the fact that he thought he needed to dress like it was 11th century Medina in the midst of 21st century Britain in order to cut the mustard as a REAL Muslim.

Why do these people dress likeSinbad The Sailor? I saw some white bloke ( I mean, as pasty faced and English as they come ), presumeably a devout convert and proud of it, walk by in my town dressed like, as I say, one of the extras in Alladin Meets Abbot and Costello in The Arabian Nights, the full rig, white pyjamas, white chemise, waistcoat, turban, pointy shoes and I'm sure he had an ear-ring.Although thats normal for blokes in Britain today. Needless to say, a big beard. He was about twenty one and looked really self-conscious. Or should I say, self-pompous. I just thought "What a prat".

re: #21 ted

Totally agree, Ted. What's wrong with the Brits? They had no problem busting Catholic heads in N. Ireland just a few years ago, it seems. I can't believe they allowed the Muslims to migrate in such large numbers.
They're screwed, now.