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-RetweetHLF Closing Arguments

Tue, Sep 18, 2007 at 3:00:40 pm PDT

The Investigative Project has a good report on the closing arguments in the Holy Land Foundation Hamas funding trial: ’Deception’ Dominates HLF Closing Arguments.

DALLAS - A federal prosecutor and the attorney for the lead defendant in the terror-support trial of five Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) officers traded accusations of deception Monday during closing arguments.

When federal prosecutor Barry Jonas accused the defendants of trying to deceive the American public, he pointed to their own conversations captured on surveillance tapes.

“War is deception,” former HLF President Shukri Abu Baker said during a secret gathering of Hamas supporters in 1993.

Defense attorney Nancy Hollander, in turn, appealed to distrust of the government and challenged evidence presented by an Israeli security witness who testified under a pseudonym.

Jonas reminded jurors that investigators found a security manual with instructions how to avoid detection at one of the defendant’s offices and that HLF officers used the word “Samah” rather than HAMAS in their conversations. In 2000, they had their office swept for bugs.

“Is this what a real charity would do?” Jonas asked repeatedly.

He pointed to Baker’s 2002 sworn declaration in which he claimed to “reject and abhor Hamas, its goals and its methods” as part of a civil suit. But Baker also published an ode to Hamas in the Arabic publication Ila Filastin. “Hayzum (Gabriel’s horse) Hamas has arrived,” it concludes, “and we will not accept any other than Hamas.” The poem was followed by a solicitation for donations to the Occupied Land Fund, HLF’s original name.

Baker, Ghassan Elashi, Mohammad El-Mezain, Mufid Abdulqader and Abdulrahman Odeh are charged in a 36-count indictment with providing material support to HAMAS. Closing arguments continue today after six weeks of the trial. Prosecutors say they funneled more than $12 million to the Specially Designated Terrorist group, largely through charity organizations in the West Bank and Gaza called zakat committees. ...

When it was her turn, Hollander attacked the prosecution for presenting what she described as a misleading case. They failed to prove that the zakat committees were Hamas controlled and failed to prove HLF donations benefited Hamas. Prosecutors emphasized Hamas violence to try to scare jurors, she said.

She pointed out a couple of translation errors in government transcripts and accused prosecutors of hiding evidence that put the defendants’ in a more understanding light.

Edward Abington, a former U.S. consul general in Jerusalem, visited a number of the zakat committees and never heard that they were controlled by Hamas, Hollander said. He had access to U.S. intelligence reports and all open source information. Abington, Hollander said, opposes Hamas and testified voluntarily. He “is about as credible a witness as you’re ever going to get.”

UPDATE at 9/18/07 5:04:06 pm:

Also see: American Thinker: Homeland Security Implications of the Holy Land Foundation Trial.

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1 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:03:32pm
Abington, Hollander said, opposes Hamas and testified voluntarily. He “is about as credible a witness as you’re ever going to get on our side.”



Fixed that for her. No charge.

OldLineTexan

2 Maximu§  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:03:42pm

OT...I don't remember the girls looking this good when I was in the Army.

Whew, I wonder if they need an old Cav Scout.

Maximu§
3/11 ACR

3 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:03:49pm

Samah! Did they really think that they were fooling anyone?

4 DesertSage  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:04:20pm

I hope they don't have the same jury as Phil Spector.

5 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:04:33pm

The Hardy Boys could've cracked that code.

6 storagemanager  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:04:48pm

Of course...Islam has never been involved with terrorism...that was a lie told by the Zionist.

7 allah this  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:04:53pm

War is deception is islam.

8 Meremortal  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:05:07pm

Samah instead of Hamas? Oh, those tricky terrorists!

9 coquimbojoe  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:05:36pm

Nail the bastards!

10 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:05:45pm

And they wouldn't have needed a raging clue to crack it.

11 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:05:56pm

Indeed, war is deception. And way too many nitwits have been deceived.

12 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:06:26pm

So exactly how many hundreds of thousands of dollars of almost-terrorist and terrorist-supporter money can one take before one loses one's credibility?

Methinks Abington found the other side of the line, if not the line itself. I am reminded of the turtle biting that danged Tootsie Roll Pop for some reason.

OldLineTexan

13 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:07:07pm

A guilty verdict will be met with stifled yawns, barely noticed by the media.

Not guilty will be a major defeat for Bush's war on terror.

14 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:07:26pm
Edward Abington, a former U.S. consul general in Jerusalem, visited a number of the zakat committees and never heard that they were controlled by Hamas

Oh, well then... that settles it, I guess. Off you go, lads, sorry for the misunderstanding.

15 storagemanager  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:07:38pm

Bukhari:V4B52N268 "Allah's Apostle said, ‘War is deceit.'"

16 shug  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:07:55pm

" War CAIR is deception,”

fixed

17 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:08:40pm

re: #13 JammieWearingFool

You almost got it right, but...

Not guilty will be a major defeat for Bush's "war on terror".

You forgot the scare quotes.

18 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:08:55pm
When it was her turn, Hollander attacked the prosecution for presenting what she described as a misleading case. They failed to prove that the zakat committees were Hamas controlled and failed to prove HLF donations benefited Hamas. Prosecutors emphasized Hamas violence to try to scare jurors, she said.

That's so unfair- I mean it would be like emphasising Al Capone's bootlegging or Pablo Escobar's cocaine trafficking (and resulting violence) during their trial.

19 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:09:56pm

You see, Abington talked to the "The Judean Palestinian People's Front", not the evil "The People's Front of Judea Palestine".

I think that's how it went down. Or that's how he remembers it. Or that's what he was paid to say.

OldLineTexan

20 bulwrk  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:10:12pm

She pointed out a couple of translation errors in government transcripts and accused prosecutors of hiding evidence that put the defendants’ in a more understanding light.

get off that horse it's been beat to death already

21 Spiritualized  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:11:04pm
Abington, Hollander said, opposes Hamas and testified voluntarily. He “is about as credible a witness as you’re ever going to get.”

Right.

During cross examination, prosecutor Barry Jonas noted that Abington earned $750000 a year during seven years as the chief lobbyist for the PLO.

22 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:11:30pm
23 storagemanager  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:11:52pm

Lucky they were not tried in this court...”

Blasphemous” Christian freed after a year: he was innocent.
by Qaiser Felix
Shahid Masih, 18, was imprisoned in September 2006 accused of having blasphemed Islam. His presumed accomplice, a Muslim released on caution nine months ago, also absolved. The Christian’s mother died from heartbreak following his arrest.

[Link: www.asianews.it...]

24 coquimbojoe  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:12:14pm

From the article:

Edward Abington, a former U.S. consul general in Jerusalem, visited a number of the zakat committees and never heard that they were controlled by Hamas, Hollander said. He had access to U.S. intelligence reports and all open source information. Abington, Hollander said, opposes Hamas and testified voluntarily. He “is about as credible a witness as you’re ever going to get.” pay for.

There fixed it.

25 rab3  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:12:17pm
Defense attorney Nancy Hollander, in turn, appealed to distrust of the government and challenged evidence presented by an Israeli security witness who testified under a pseudonym.

Is this code for don't trust the Jeeewwwsss.

26 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:12:33pm

“War is deception” -- former HLF President Shukri Abu Baker

"Love is a battlefield" -- former pop icon Pat Benatar

27 Wetfun  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:13:13pm

Please keep telling us exactly who you are, faster now

28 Occasional Reader  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:13:19pm

Now, I hope the court will be culturally sensitive, and suspend sentencing during the holy month of Ramadan.

29 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:13:20pm

re: #20 bulwrk

She pointed out a couple of translation errors in government transcripts and accused prosecutors of hiding evidence that put the defendants’ in a more understanding light.

get off that horse it's been beat to death already

You don't understand, it's sooo unfair. You must read the transcripts in the original Arabic or you will miss the truth troof.

OldLineTexan

30 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:13:53pm

re: #17 Occasional Reader

re: #13 JammieWearingFool

You almost got it right, but...

Not guilty will be a major defeat for Bush's "war on terror".

You forgot the scare quotes.

Good point. I was fighting indecision between bold, italic, quotes, and just opted for all bold.

I pared "so-called"; that could be added.

31 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:14:01pm

A new thread. Whew!

32 OldLineTexan  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:15:00pm

re: #30 JammieWearingFool

So-called adds just the right amount of implied derision for one of those spicy sentence sandwiches SpongeBob likes.

OldLineTexan

33 storagemanager  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:15:13pm

Just once...I want to hear an Imam tell the truth..."there is no peace in Islam"

34 My 2 Cents  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:15:17pm

I don't have a good feeling about this. Reason: The jury is likely to include at least a few left-wingers, multi-cultural palestinian terrorist sympathizers, anti-semites, and/or idiots. The defense is counting on that. And the jury has to be unanimous to convict. My guess is that the HLF terrorist-lovers will either walk away scott-free or perhaps get convicted of only the least serious of the charges against them. And the Jihadists will continue their war against us... But hey, we just may blast Iran soon, and that would certainly be a step forward. There is still hope for the West.

35 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:16:24pm

Good news: More people being tasered!

The barking moonbat from the University of Florida isn't the only one.

36 Spiritualized  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:16:35pm

Nancy Hollander

In December 2001, Ms. Hollander was named as one of America’s top fifty women litigators by the National Law Journal. She has received the highest Martindale-Hubbell “AV” rating, and is listed in The Best Lawyers in America, the National Directory of Criminal Lawyers, and the International Who’s Who of Business Crime Lawyers.

Umm, okay, who is paying for this so-called "one of the best lawyers in America?" I'm assuming she's not cheap.

37 storagemanager  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:16:42pm

re: #33 storagemanager

Just once...I want to hear an Imam tell the truth..."there is no peace in Islam"


Why do you think they say...Mohammad peace be upon him...cause he never knew peace in his lifetime.

38 albusteve  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:17:35pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

A new thread. Whew!

got food?...check
red sripe handy?...check
didja pee?...check

let's git some! (Duke Nukem)

39 coquimbojoe  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:18:34pm

Who's Nancy Hollander?

What she's with the ACLU?

Her bio at her firm. She's worked for terrorists before.

Nice little quote from Nan. “They say all these bad things about him. The bottom line is, if he's such a bad dude, why aren't they bringing him to a commission? If they've got something on him, charge him and let us defend this case.” Can't wait to defend the bad guy.

40 rab3  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:19:19pm

A rerun from downstairs but I still like it.

Iraq 41, bin Laden 19

Only 19% of Americans think catching Osama bin Laden is more important than winning in Iraq, a Zogby/UPI showed. 41% said winning in Iraq was more important than catching bin Laden.

So why are Democrats like Barack Obama threatening to invade Pakistan to catch him?

Could it be that winning in Iraq would create — in Democratic congressional leader James Clyburn’s words — “a real big problem for us”? Could it be that Democrats want to change the subject?

After all, 31% of Democrats choose capturing bin Laden over protecting Iraq from an Iranian or al-Qaeda takeover.

The poll continued to show Bush has more support than Congress but it is like watching snails race. Said Zogby:

41 storagemanager  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:19:34pm

Go to the link...read the comments under this story...

Some politicians and diplomats in Damascus told reporters that Sudan is mediating between Damascus and Riyadh for improve political relationship between the two countries (Saudi Arabia Kingdom and Syria).

Sources say presidential advisor Dr. Mustafa Osman Ismail who is currently visiting Syria is mandated by President Omar AL-Bashir to carryout the mediation mission.

It was reported that Syrian government has accepted Sudan mediation and appreciated very much indeed Sudan's effort to improve political atmosphere in the Arab world.

[Link: ummahnewslinks.com...]

42 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:20:13pm

re: #39 coquimbojoe

Who's Nancy Hollander?

What she's with the ACLU?

Her bio at her firm. She's worked for terrorists before.

Nice little quote from Nan. “They say all these bad things about him. The bottom line is, if he's such a bad dude, why aren't they bringing him to a commission? If they've got something on him, charge him and let us defend this case.” Can't wait to defend the bad guy.

She attended Gerry Spence's Trial College.

Wonderful.

Probably buds with Lynne Stewart.

43 coquimbojoe  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:21:15pm

re: #41 storagemanager

...Sudan's effort to improve political atmosphere in the Arab world... That explains why they are killing all those poor black people.

44 Capt_Faust  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:22:10pm

OT/ but interesting...

Granted that I don't really read the UK daily mail, but on their website under the miraculous story of a child spared of death during a car bomb, something funny occurred. The Brutal picture of the aftermath of the bomb (including the car wreckage on fire) shows the child barley under the wreckage, circled in red...

Child somehow survives without a scratch.

But when you click on the picture to see an enlargement, you see that the Editors edited out the corpse of someone (it may be the mother) right next to the child (mostly blocked by the wreckage)

Second picture, with other person (warning, might be a bit graphic...but not really compaired with diehard films)

The point here is that this news outlet decided showing the flames, wreckage, and knocked out child was OK. Showing flames, wreckage, child, and other dead person was too much.

This is reminiscent of that software package that allows people to "disappear" out of a photograph...

I wonder what else this paper has conveniently "left out" in other pics...

/This could have been cause they did not want the corpse in the pic...but what if it was a logo from Hamas or something...you see where I'm going with this right?

45 storagemanager  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:22:25pm
An advocacy group for Muslims in the United States called on the FBI on Tuesday to investigate an attack on Muslim worshippers outside an Ohio mosque. The Council on American-Islamic Relations, or CAIR, said the attack occurred Friday night as worshippers attended prayers at Masjid As-Sahaaba to mark the monthlong fast of Ramadan.

The attackers made derogatory statements and began throwing rocks, striking one worshipper in the back and smashing two windows on the front of the mosque, according to a police report

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

46 albusteve  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:25:49pm

re: #45 storagemanager

An advocacy group for Muslims in the United States called on the FBI on Tuesday to investigate an attack on Muslim worshippers outside an Ohio mosque. The Council on American-Islamic Relations, or CAIR, said the attack occurred Friday night as worshippers attended prayers at Masjid As-Sahaaba to mark the monthlong fast of Ramadan.
The attackers made derogatory statements and began throwing rocks, striking one worshipper in the back and smashing two windows on the front of the mosque, according to a police report

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

it's beginning...six months from now we'll hardly pay attention to these widespread incidents

47 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:26:47pm

re: #38 albusteve

Duke Nukem was a classic. They just don't make video games like they used to. I haven't played a good game since GTA San Adreas.

48 rab3  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:27:23pm

And in another important trial...NOT

Phil Spector jury reach impasse over murder charge

Jurors in Phil Spector’s murder trial have indicated they believe they are at an impasse.

The panel sent the trial judge, Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Larry Fidler, a note during its seventh day of deliberations.

/how about at least convicting his Barber of a crime.

49 storagemanager  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:27:40pm
Iran's President Mahmound Ahmadinejad is to leave for New York on Sunday to address the UN General Assembly, despite calls in Washington for him to be banned from the gathering, his office said.
The president will give his third speech to the General Assembly on Tuesday, before returning to Iran on Saturday, a presidential aide, who asked not to be named, told AFP.

He did not give further details on the president's itinerary while in the United States, Iran's arch enemy.

...Braking news...He will be flying into JFK on the Mahdi's carpet. [Link: www.breitbart.com...]

50 storagemanager  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:28:13pm

re: #46 albusteve

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

51 GreenDroll  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:28:45pm

Just like the Syrians and Iranians killed in the recent chemical warfare accident in Syria, Muslims can only be involved in activities that serve Allah because they are Muslims and by definition all that they do serves God. Screw your goat, kill your children, grow your opium, lie under oath, set booby traps in public places, etc, it is all God's will... don't you know.

52 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:29:52pm

re: #36 Spiritualized

Nancy Hollander


In December 2001, Ms. Hollander was named as one of America’s top fifty women litigators by the National Law Journal. She has received the highest Martindale-Hubbell “AV” rating, and is listed in The Best Lawyers in America, the National Directory of Criminal Lawyers, and the International Who’s Who of Business Crime Lawyers.

Umm, okay, who is paying for this so-called "one of the best lawyers in America?" I'm assuming she's not cheap.

Gramscian Whores of the Caliphate aren't cheap.

53 Capt_Faust  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:30:12pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

re: #38 albusteve

Duke Nukem was a classic. They just don't make video games like they used to. I haven't played a good game since GTA San Adreas.


Get a 360, and get Bioshock...

I loved it for a FPS, and I am not a big FPS...

54 albusteve  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:30:29pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

re: #38 albusteve

Duke Nukem was a classic. They just don't make video games like they used to. I haven't played a good game since GTA San Adreas.


I simply loved Duke...the first game of it's type...mirrors...payphones...underwater stuff...and real pigs...hahaha...classic indeed...I still think about Duke once in a while...try Call to Duty2...wowzer!

55 storagemanager  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:30:37pm

re: #50 storagemanager

this was a goof...sorry

56 Capt_Faust  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:30:49pm

...fan

PIMF

57 albusteve  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:31:02pm

re: #48 rab3

And in another important trial...NOT

Phil Spector jury reach impasse over murder charge


Jurors in Phil Spector’s murder trial have indicated they believe they are at an impasse.

The panel sent the trial judge, Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Larry Fidler, a note during its seventh day of deliberations.


/how about at least convicting his Barber of a crime.

he'll walk

58 NY Nana  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:31:04pm
59 americanpundit  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:31:15pm
Edward Abington, a former U.S. consul general in Jerusalem, visited a number of the zakat committees and never heard that they were controlled by Hamas

Wait.Wait. He said he never heard, or did he say they weren't. Big difference.

60 americanpundit  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:34:35pm

If it's a conviction, there'll be claims of Islamphobia.

61 Capt_Faust  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:36:16pm

Killgore (and other gamers)

If you're a fan of Rockstar, try the game The Warriors.

A solid game for your old PS2 placed in the campy yet fun late 70's world of the Walter Hill film by the same name. Rockstar did an amazing job recreating the feel and ambiance of the film, including finding voice actors who are practically dead ringers for the original characters (which is though to do since some of the original actors are dead...)

If you don't want to stick with your beat up PS2 go

Dead Rising for the 360...
+++Gears of War+++ for the 360

/ Though I always loved the Hitman series...and we all know Halo 3 comes out on the 25th...

62 Dianna  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:36:44pm

re: #41 storagemanager

Some politicians and diplomats in Damascus told reporters that Sudan is mediating between Damascus and Riyadh for improve political relationship between the two countries (Saudi Arabia Kingdom and Syria).

Sudan? Mediating?

63 rab3  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:37:39pm

More strange Trial news.

Lesbian couple sue doctor after twins

SYDNEY A lesbian couple are seeking damages from their doctor after one gave birth to twins after fertility treatment, rather than a single baby.

The women, who cannot be named, are suing Robert Armellin for more than A$400,000 (£167,000) to cover the cost of raising one of the twin girls until the age of 21.

The birth-mother of the girls, who are now aged 3, told the Supreme Court in Canberra that Dr Armellin implanted two embryos, when she had told him minutes before the IVF procedure in November 2003 that she only wanted one.

The woman said that she and her partner briefly considered putting one of the babies up for adoption but dismissed the idea, deciding that it would be unfair to both twins, who are nonidentical.

The couple want A$398,000 to cover the costs of raising one of the girls, including private school fees, about A$15,000 to compensate them for time off work, plus an additional amount for medical expenses. (AFP)

/make of it what you will.
//two healthy babies is a nice kind of accident.

64 Highrise  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:38:13pm

re: #44 Capt_Faust

Whoa...they sure did edit that.

65 Thanos  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:39:28pm

re: #17 Occasional Reader

re: #13 JammieWearingFool

You almost got it right, but...


Not guilty will be a major defeat for Bush's "war on terror".

You forgot the scare quotes.


Actually if this case were won it would be:

major defeat for Bush's "war on muslim charity".

66 leepro  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:40:34pm

See my #405, referenced earlier today in another thread, and an accompanying must read at American Thinker.

67 Capt_Faust  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:44:52pm

re: #64 Highrise

Yeah, I wonder what they do on a daily basis.

That was a big job, and changes the feel of the entire picture red circle or no red circle...

68 mondoreb  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:47:41pm

HLF.
CAIR.
AQ.

What is it with Islamists and the snappy acronyms?

How 'bout STFU? Or is that hate speech?

69 Geepers  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:51:05pm

NY Nana (#58),

a Jane's Magazine report that dozens of Iranian engineers and 15 Syrian officers were killed in a July 23 accident in Syria.

According to the report, cited by Channel 10, the joint Syrian-Iranian team was attempting to mount a chemical warhead on a scud missile when the explosion occurred, spreading lethal chemical agents, including sarin nerve gas and VX gas.

Allah's will.

70 mean Gene  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:53:47pm

Hung Jury in the Phil Spector trial.
Can't a jury get together and make a decision anywhere?

Hope the jury comes to a decision here.

71 Bubbaman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:56:32pm

Barry seems to have pulled things together. Let's hope that the "jury" isn't a bunch of Ham-ass-nicks or their sympathizers.

72 jcm  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:56:57pm

re: #60 americanpundit

If it's a conviction, there'll be claims of Islamphobia.

If the Jihad doesn't fit...
you must acquit.

73 Perplexed  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 3:57:24pm

re: #51 GreenDroll

Just like the Syrians and Iranians killed in the recent chemical warfare accident in Syria, Muslims can only be involved in activities that serve Allah because they are Muslims and by definition all that they do serves God. Screw your goat, kill your children, grow your opium, lie under oath, set booby traps in public places, etc, it is all God's will... don't you know.

Wonder how they ascertain what the will of their mood dog, allah? While G_d is approachable through prayer, attempting to figure out what He has in store for your life smacks of feeble attempts at divination.

74 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 4:06:58pm

re: #63 rab3

More strange Trial news.

Lesbian couple sue doctor after twins


SYDNEY A lesbian couple are seeking damages from their doctor after one gave birth to twins after fertility treatment, rather than a single baby.


The women, who cannot be named, are suing Robert Armellin for more than A$400,000 (£167,000) to cover the cost of raising one of the twin girls until the age of 21.

The birth-mother of the girls, who are now aged 3, told the Supreme Court in Canberra that Dr Armellin implanted two embryos, when she had told him minutes before the IVF procedure in November 2003 that she only wanted one.

The woman said that she and her partner briefly considered putting one of the babies up for adoption but dismissed the idea, deciding that it would be unfair to both twins, who are nonidentical.

The couple want A$398,000 to cover the costs of raising one of the girls, including private school fees, about A$15,000 to compensate them for time off work, plus an additional amount for medical expenses. (AFP)



/make of it what you will.
//two healthy babies is a nice kind of accident.

sigh. Whine, whine, whine. I'll second your last comment. Too many lawyers...are we going to revamp the tort system in America when we get Shrillarycare? Methinks not.

75 bikermailman  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 4:08:07pm

re: #68 mondoreb

HLF.
CAIR.
AQ.

What is it with Islamists and the snappy acronyms?

How 'bout STFU? Or is that hate speech?

Maybe so...let's tone it down to STHU.

76 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 4:09:31pm
77 Perplexed  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 4:10:13pm

re: #69 Geepers

True. Must be the will of the moon dog.

78 msdixie  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 4:18:29pm

I am so MAD at the msm for not covering this trial! It is one of the most important events in our war on jihad that has come down the pike and a great vindication for one of my heroes, Steve Emerson. I'll never forget listening to an interview with Steve on my car radio a few weeks after 9/11 and hearing islamic spew coming from some jihadi who was down the road in Atlanta. That's when I knew 9/11 was only the beginning and the U.S. was in really deep shi*t.

79 creamygoodness  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 4:28:51pm

Is the mainstream media going to trumpet the resullts of the trial if there is a conviction?

80 creamygoodness  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 4:31:33pm

re: #74 bikermailman

re: #63 rab3

Lesbian couple sue doctor after twins


Why, this kind of behavior makes it seem like a lifestyle choice - having kids I mean.

81 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 4:44:04pm
82 Maximu§  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 4:44:36pm

re: #76 ploome hineni

re: #2 Maximu§

they just turned 18..kids

we all looked like that at 18


Thank You for pouring cold water on my sick fantasy...:(

Aw well, back to work.

Maximu§
3/11 ACR

83 Idle Drifter  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 4:46:51pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

re: #38 albusteve

Duke Nukem was a classic. They just don't make video games like they used to. I haven't played a good game since GTA San Adreas.

Would you kindly, play a game of Bioshock.

84 kansas  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 5:05:09pm

Muslims; lawyers; deception? Knock me over with a feather.

85 yenta-fada  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 5:10:27pm

Re # 62 Dianna

"Sudan, mediating?"

Exactly what I was thinking. Sudan couldn't mediate peanut butter and jelly in a sandwich. Unless, of course, the sandwich fell on the floor and then they could blame the Jooos.

Re #52 MandyManners

"Gramscian whores of the Caliphate aren't cheap."

Well, SOMEBODY had to pay for that face lift she's had.

86 Libs are Mental  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 5:27:46pm

She pointed out a couple of translation errors in government transcripts and accused prosecutors of hiding evidence that put the defendants’ in a more understanding light.

Isn't that what she is taking the terrorist funding for, putting out the evidence that puts a good light on her Clients terrorists. What now the prosecutor has to do both jobs.

87 Jeff MacMillan  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 5:33:57pm

Objection! The Prosecution has been BIASED for this entire proceeding, your Honor. I highly recommend a re-trial in which the Prosecution will be conducted by Jack Murtha, a far more unbiased individual.

88 Fredlike  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 5:34:10pm

re: #58 NY Nana

Janes: 'Dozens' died in Syrian - Iranian chemical weapons experiment

Only 'dozens' ?

We had to transfer some dangerous chemicals at work one time so we set up the transfer system and ran water through it. After we all got soaked, we decided maybe we really didn't need to transfer the real chemical. We needed to get a large oxygen/water free chamber to do the transfer properly but didn't have the money for one. The chamber we had was too small thus the jury rigging. I said that to say when working with really dangerous stuff like nerve gas you would think that they would have many dry runs and severely limit the number of people with potential exposure. The number of dead seems really large for just a leak unless they did not take even the barest minimum of safety measures.

89 samhein  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 5:51:02pm

..."accused prosecutors of hiding evidence that put the defendants’ in a more understanding light..."

Actually, I'd say we understand her client(s) quite well!

90 sh007r  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:20:02pm

re: #34 My 2 Cents

I don't have a good feeling about this. Reason: The jury is likely to include at least a few left-wingers, multi-cultural palestinian terrorist sympathizers, anti-semites, and/or idiots. The defense is counting on that. And the jury has to be unanimous to convict. My guess is that the HLF terrorist-lovers will either walk away scott-free or perhaps get convicted of only the least serious of the charges against them. And the Jihadists will continue their war against us... But hey, we just may blast Iran soon, and that would certainly be a step forward. There is still hope for the West.

God I hope you're wrong and the jury can see thru the jihadfog, but I fear you're not.
.
If so, should we do as others have done and burn our mopeds or something?
...er...well I don't even have a moped, but I will be pissed.

91 sh007r  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 6:25:57pm

re: #39 coquimbojoe

"In the 1960's and the 1970's the FBI, CIA and the Chicago Police Department followed me, kept files on me, wrote about my anti-war and civil rights speeches, made copies of my writings, took my picture."
She's been wacked out for 47 years now, at least. And they say smokin' dope doesn't kill millions of brain cells. She just forgot she's not an angry 27 year old anymore. One scary B.

92 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:29:57pm
93 EE  Tue, Sep 18, 2007 7:43:33pm
"The Ikhwan [The Muslim Brotherhood's name for itself] must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and ‘sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and Allah's religion is made victorious over all other religions."


-- Ikhwan (Muslim Brotherhood) document.

This view sees the Muslim Brotherhood's role as being subversive, in every sense.

94 Timbre  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 3:11:51am

We all love the Constitution. But sometimes it protects the guilty at the expense of the innocent. If these defendants are all found "Not Guilty," our nation is in great danger. Islamists are very good at hiding ulterior motives, plausible deniability, and playing the victim. If they win this case, they will quadruple their efforts to activate Jihadist funding, training, and ultimately, killing.

95 Pygmalienation  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 6:36:26am

This is the part I found particularly sobering.

From the Joseph Meyers article:

"The bottom-line conclusion on that J-2 analyst's memo is that the above assessment is accurate and consistent with the "intelligence reporting" from the Holy Land Foundation Trial.
Those Homeland Security, Intelligence and military officials involved in future plans, strategy and operations must recognize too they are more than 20 years behind on this threat. "
Not that many other points made in the article were much less disconcerting.

96 opnion  Wed, Sep 19, 2007 6:58:37am

re: #39 coquimbojoe

Who's Nancy Hollander?

What she's with the ACLU?

Her bio at her firm. She's worked for terrorists before.

Nice little quote from Nan. “They say all these bad things about him. The bottom line is, if he's such a bad dude, why aren't they bringing him to a commission? If they've got something on him, charge him and let us defend this case.” Can't wait to defend the bad guy.


I get it. A lawyer takes the defendant as is and mounts a defense.
They take an oath, blah, blah , blah.
The problem here is that she likes to defend terrorists.
That is a very disturbing mind set, at least to me


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