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CAIR Goes After John McCain

Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 7:00:22 pm PDT

John McCain is the latest politician to run afoul of the Council on American Islamic Relations’ never-ending grievance theater: McCain: No Muslim president, U.S. better with Christian one.

GOP presidential candidate John McCain says America is better off with a Christian President and he doesn’t want a Muslim in the Oval Office.

“I admire the Islam. There’s a lot of good principles in it,” he said. “But I just have to say in all candor that since this nation was founded primarily on Christian principles, personally, I prefer someone who I know who has a solid grounding in my faith.” ...

McCain later clarified his remarks, saying, “I would vote for a Muslim if he or she was the candidate best able to lead the country and to defend our political values.”

A Muslim rights group [...and unindicted terrorist co-conspirator... – ed.] ripped the Arizona Republican’s remarks.

“That kind of attitude goes against the American tradition of religious pluralism and inclusion,” said Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations. He urged McCain to “clarify his remarks” and “stress his acceptance of political candidates of any faith.”

Again, we see mainstream media’s ridiculous lack of honesty about CAIR, and their blind willingness to promote them as an innocuous, well-intentioned “Muslim rights group.” No need to inform readers about their Muslim Brotherhood origins, their Saudi funding, or the fact that they’re unindicted co-conspirators in the Holy Land Foundation Hamas funding trial.

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1049 comments

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1 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:02:02pm

That would be telling Charles

2 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:02:45pm

If you judge a person by the enemies they make then John McCasin just made the right enemies.

3 Attaboid  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:03:45pm

[deleted]

4 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:05:13pm

CAIR's on a funding drive right now, I suspect their cash flow is thin post-HLF revelation and election season sucking up all the loose change. The next few weeks ought to prove interesting, they put these PR releases out with donation pleas attached when they print them in college newsletters.

5 Attaboid  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:05:47pm

Oh F[deleted]

This is ridiculous.

6 mean Gene  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:05:54pm

“I admire the Islam. There’s a lot of good principles in it,” John McCain said.

I have to ask:
WHAT can he specifially name that is admirable in Islam?
(That wasn't abrogated, that is.)

7 shifra  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:06:48pm

John McCain is just trying to get the anti- Muslim vote, that's all

8 Fjordman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:08:43pm

CAIR is sponsored by Saudi Arabia, and you sell weapons to SA. When will Americans recognize their enemy?

9 zonekeeper  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:09:09pm

Totally (but not really) off-topic:


THIS is why Islam is such a joke. You couldn't MAKE this kind of absolute LUNACY up.

Seriously. This is mental illness.

10 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:09:59pm

I admire THE Islam? wtf?

Eh, kind of a stupid thing to say, McCain, but only because it's obvious.
(psssst...think he was talking about Obama? hehehe)

11 perfectsense  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:10:24pm

CAIR is a Muslim rights group?
that is like describing OJ as a widower.

12 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:10:25pm

Koskidz are upset.....
McCain: Constitution Establishes A "Christian Nation"

So, McCain would vote for someone who follows "the Islam," as long as they, by his own words, "carry on the Judeo-Christian principles" that McCain believes this nation was founded upon.

Well then. That settles it.

Onward, Christian warriors!


Progressive!

13 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:11:07pm

Speaking of HLF, here's an update - jury still out

The former Holy Land leaders could be sentenced to life in prison if the jury finds that they helped cause deaths. Prosecutors charged that Holy Land supported the families of suicide bombers.

14 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:11:22pm

re: #9 zonekeeper

Totally (but not really) off-topic:


THIS is why Islam is such a joke. You couldn't MAKE this kind of absolute LUNACY up.

Seriously. This is mental illness.

In my opinion she got LUCKY! Let's hope she isn't stoned to death for adultery, now.

15 kiwiviv  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:12:27pm

If a Muslim ever becomes president...I'm leaving!

16 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:12:49pm

People are coming to the wrong conclusion about this quote:


First of all, it's a dumb thing to say. A jew can't be president? Or a mormon? Who cares what religion someone is, if their politics is right.


But the other thing to note is look which religion practices grievance theater. Do you see any Buddhist Rights Groups pissing and moaning? What about the Anti-Defamation League that supposedly squashes any criticism of Judaism? Other religions don't feel the need to create massive press releases every time they have a tiny grievance.


That is the real thing I see here.

17 MJ  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:13:17pm

According to the article, McCain is also quoted as saying this:

"In the interview, the senator also said the "Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation."

Sorry folks, but McCain is wrong. And, as a Jew, I certainly do not think only a Christian should be President. It's my country too. Now, it's quite possible McCain was mis-quoted and that the article is bogus. I'd like to hear more.

18 mean Gene  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:13:35pm

re: #9 zonekeeper

Totally (but not really) off-topic:


THIS is why Islam is such a joke. You couldn't MAKE this kind of absolute LUNACY up.

Seriously. This is mental illness.

I'll bet she is fine with the divorce, too.

19 rtheyserius  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:13:37pm
"That kind of attitude goes against the American tradition of religious pluralism and inclusion."

Oh yeah, like Islam is all about religious pluralism and inclusion.

20 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:13:40pm

This probably pissed off CAIR as well:

The Element of Surprise

Sept. 28, 2007 - Security officials at Los Angeles International Airport now have a new weapon in their fight against terrorism: complete, baffling randomness. Anxious to thwart future terror attacks in the early stages while plotters are casing the airport, LAX security patrols have begun using a new software program called ARMOR, NEWSWEEK has learned, to make the placement of security checkpoints completely unpredictable. Now all airport security officials have to do is press a button labeled "Randomize," and they can throw a sort of digital cloak of invisibility over where they place the cops' antiterror checkpoints on any given day.

21 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:14:03pm

All John needs to do is say his remarks were taken out of context and misrepresented by Christophobes. Case closed.

22 tripletdad  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:14:13pm

So anything less than gushing praise for Islam warrants a stern rebuke from these folks? Makes me wonder what we can expect if they ever get ahold of the reins of power in this country.

23 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:14:40pm

re: #13 Thanos

I don't think it's going to make any difference to CAIR's fate. The MSM will keep the "civil rights group" myth alive until CAIR is outlawed as a terrorist organization , even then it's open to debate.

24 Arbalest  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:14:41pm

“GOP presidential candidate John McCain says America is better off with a Christian President and he doesn’t want a Muslim in the Oval Office.”

. . . . . .

”McCain later clarified his remarks, saying, “I would vote for a Muslim if he or she was the candidate best able to lead the country and to defend our political values”

McCain seem to be falling apart. His first remark is very politically-charged, but his later clarification is a mistake. Either make the first statement (but why? is there a need?) and issue no clarification, or say nothing, and use the clarification as a platitude later.


“"That kind of attitude goes against the American tradition of religious pluralism and inclusion," said Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations.”

How does CAIR feel about “religious pluralism and inclusion”?

Now seems a good time to ask.

The answer is clear, but why didn’t the NY Daily news ask?


”He urged McCain to "clarify his remarks" and "stress his acceptance of political candidates of any faith."”

Has CAIR (ever) issued a statement accepting “political candidates of any faith”?

Now seems a good time to ask.

Why didn’t the NY Daily news ask?

25 yah  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:14:49pm

Muslims lecturing us Americans about American traditions. How sick.
After they get their way, take over our county and install sharia law, there will be no American traditions.

26 AZfederalist  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:15:05pm

I'll feel comfortable with a muslim as president just as soon as a Christian is placed in power in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, or Afghanistan.


/Can you say "cold day in Hades"?

27 stevieray  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:15:34pm
“That kind of attitude goes against the American tradition of religious pluralism and inclusion,” said Ibrahim Hooper,

"... and we'll destroy that American tradition in due time, clueless dhimmis" he continued under his breath.

No Muslim has the right to speak about pluralism or inclusion with their 1400 year history of crushing everything different than their soul-stunting creed allows.

28 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:15:55pm

re: #17 MJ

"In the interview, the senator also said the "Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation."

Sorry folks, but McCain is wrong. And, as a Jew, I certainly do not
think only a Christian should be President. It's my country too. Now,
it's quite possible McCain was mis-quoted and that the article is
bogus. I'd like to hear more.

If he really said that, he's a fool. As an irreligious person, I don't want religion in office, period.

29 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:15:58pm

re: #4 Thanos

CAIR's on a funding drive right now, I suspect their cash flow is thin post-HLF revelation and election season sucking up all the loose change. The next few weeks ought to prove interesting, they put these PR releases out with donation pleas attached when they print them in college newsletters.

CAIR's funding drive is a sham. They don't need donations. Saudi prince Al-Walid bin Talal gives them tens of millions of dollars -- and that's only the Saudi we know about.

30 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:17:02pm
31 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:17:21pm

There's no reason a muslim can't be president. Just because CAIR is run by a bunch of idiots who think their religion is superior to every other doesn't mean that all muslims believe in that. There are rational, intelligent muslims who I wouldn't mind in a position of power. You wouldn't say that a Christian can't be president because there are crazy fundamentalists like Jerry Falwell.


But I do sort of wonder if CAIR has any staff that ISN'T involved in finding things to complain about and/or writing press releases regarding said complaints.

32 USBeast  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:17:33pm

The President of the United States is bound by the oath of office to: "...preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Any Muslim who took this oath would be a traitor, either to his religion or his country.

33 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:17:43pm

re: #28 Lanaty

re: #17 MJ

"In the interview, the senator also said the "Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation."

Sorry folks, but McCain is wrong. And, as a Jew, I certainly do not
think only a Christian should be President. It's my country too. Now,
it's quite possible McCain was mis-quoted and that the article is
bogus. I'd like to hear more.

If he really said that, he's a fool. As an irreligious person, I don't want religion in office, period.

This is far from the only reason to label McCain a "fool."

34 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:18:35pm

re: #33 Charles

You are right, Charles.

35 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:18:35pm

re: #28 Lanaty

re: #17 MJ

"In the interview, the senator also said the "Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation."

Sorry folks, but McCain is wrong. And, as a Jew, I certainly do not
think only a Christian should be President. It's my country too. Now,
it's quite possible McCain was mis-quoted and that the article is
bogus. I'd like to hear more.

If he really said that, he's a fool. As an irreligious person, I don't want religion in office, period.

Exactly. Doesn't matter what religion someone is, as long as they don't let their religion cloud their reason and logic.

36 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:18:50pm

re: #31 Jwaksman

There's no reason a muslim can't be president.

Have you read the Koran?

37 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:18:51pm
38 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:19:09pm

Jwaksman (#31),

You don't know islam very well.

39 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:19:22pm

re: #33 Charles

re: #28 Lanaty

re: #17 MJ

"In the interview, the senator also said the "Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation."Sorry folks, but McCain is wrong. And, as a Jew, I certainly do not
think only a Christian should be President. It's my country too. Now,
it's quite possible McCain was mis-quoted and that the article is
bogus. I'd like to hear more.

If he really said that, he's a fool. As an irreligious person, I don't want religion in office, period.

This is far from the only reason to label McCain a "fool."


It doesn't make him a fool overall. You can't judge him on one quote. But it was certainly a foolish thing to say. America is not a Christian country - it's a SECULAR country.

40 USA  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:19:48pm
41 Paul  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:19:58pm
42 rtheyserius  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:20:12pm

re: #25 yah

Muslims lecturing us Americans about American traditions.

Precisely. What arrogance. But then, that's the religion of peace, always telling other people how they should be.

43 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:20:24pm

re: #31 Jwaksman

There's no reason a muslim can't should be president.

Fixed it for ya ;)

44 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:20:41pm

re: #38 Geepers

Jwaksman (#31),

You don't know islam very well.


What, there isn't one rational muslim person out there? Of course there is crazy stuff in the Koran. Have you read the Bible? There's crazy stuff there as well. The point is that any person born of any faith can turn into an intelligent, rational person.


I don't want someone as our President who thinks the Koran should set public policy. Obviously. But I don't want someone reading policy out of the Bible either.

45 WimbledonWomble  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:21:42pm

CAIR is an open-borders fanatic. If CAIR goes after McCain, they are really misjudging things, as he is their best friend. They are not even savvy enough to read his statements for what they are, campaign pandering. CAIR is an alien organization that suits itself up and hires people who speak without accents, but in every other way fundamentally does not understand the US.

If CAIR were smart in pursuing their agenda of subversion of America, they would push for McCain on the Repub side and Obama on the Demo side. These two, with the exception of the unelectable Ron Pauls and Kuciniches, are the most unfettered pro-immigration of the lot. With a McCain or an Obama, they would get a lot freer immigration from Muslim countries, after the campaign rhetoric died down and once these individuals were elected.

The only reason McCain said this is because he is afraid that he appears to weak and laissez-faire on immigration and cultural issues. It does not mean he has changed his attitude. But CAIR is too alien to understand this. They don't understand American politics and the triangulation and politics that goes into it. They have turned against their best ally short of Ron Paul in the Republican party.

CAIR is not smart and patient enough to be Machiavellian. They react in the moment without thinking of the long-term. That is their fatal weakness.

46 NY Nana  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:22:03pm

I said this on another thread, and have not changed my mind. As a Jew, I found his comment offensive.

47 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:22:10pm

Jwaksman (#44),

What, there isn't one rational muslim person out there?

Wow. Where'd you pull that out of?

48 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:22:12pm

re: #43 NJDhockeyfan

re: #31 Jwaksman

There's no reason a muslim can't should be president.

Fixed it for ya ;)

Saying bigoted stuff like that is why the leftist blogs attack lgf. There's no need for this. There ARE reasonable, intelligent muslims out there. There are muslims who think Israel is a great country, that Iran needs to be dealt with forcibly and that America is the greatest country in the world. To generalize ALL muslims based on what A LOT of muslims do is unfair and wrong. Not ALL muslims fit the stereotype.

49 sheik yer'mami  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:22:14pm

Right on Charles.

But the idea alone, that a Muhammedan should be president of the US is preposterous. Islam is everything the US is not.

No more mosques, no more madrassh's, no hijabs, jilbabs, burkas, no more clerics: NO to Islam! This cult gotta go!

[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

50 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:23:02pm

re: #47 Geepers

Jwaksman (#44),

What, there isn't one rational muslim person out there?

Wow. Where'd you pull that out of?


People telling me I'm an idiot for suggesting that it's possible that a person born in a muslim household could possibly be qualified to be US President at some point. Not all muslim politicians would act like that fool Ellison from Minnesota.

51 experiencedtraveller  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:23:09pm

STFU and stop silly dissing of Mccain who MORE THAN ANY OTHER IN THIS CAMPAIGN should be heard.

52 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:23:18pm

re: #44 Jwaksman

I don't want someone as our President who thinks the Koran should set public policy. Obviously. But I don't want someone reading policy out of the Bible either.

Have you read the Bible?

53 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:23:39pm

There are surely Muslims out there who have no interest in making everyone else Muslim. They usually just identify themselves as liberals or democrats and don't buy into 90% of what the Koran says--they don't think drinking wine will send them to hell, don't feel the need to wake up at 3 am to pray, and refuse to fast during Ramadan. I'd fear having a Muslim President because inevitably the psychos over in the middle east would not think he or she was Muslim enough, and would intensify their Jihad against us. My two cents.

54 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:24:07pm
55 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:24:25pm

re: #46 NY Nana


I'm not crazy about it either, atheists rank far below Muslims on popularity polls.

56 xenophobic  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:24:32pm

#48 Jwaksman
I don't believe anyone said it was a Christian nation, specifically he said: was founded primarily on Christian principles
Nice try though.

57 sheik yer'mami  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:25:05pm

Looking for a 'rational' Muslim?

Mate, I'm still looking for a 'moderate' one and I haven't found one yet. You talking rational? Good luck...!

[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

58 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:25:10pm

McCain has self-destructed -- his campaign funds are thin, and he's back to a bus and microphone effort. The good thing he is doing which I support him in is pushing for support for the war efforts. On all other issues he's just above Luap Nor in my books.

59 DEZes  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:25:39pm

re: #48 Jwaksman

re: #43 NJDhockeyfan


re: #31 Jwaksman

There's no reason a muslim can't should be president.

Fixed it for ya ;)


Saying bigoted stuff like that is why the leftist blogs attack lgf. There's no need for this. There ARE reasonable, intelligent muslims out there. There are muslims who think Israel is a great country, that Iran needs to be dealt with forcibly and that America is the greatest country in the world. To generalize ALL muslims based on what A LOT of muslims do is unfair and wrong. Not ALL muslims fit the stereotype.

Name a rational muslim please.

60 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:25:45pm

re: #52 Charles

re: #44 Jwaksman

I
don't want someone as our President who thinks the Koran should set
public policy. Obviously. But I don't want someone reading policy out
of the Bible either.

Have you read the Bible?

I sure have. Ever paid attention to the Old Testament? There are some psychotic rules in there about stoning adultresses to death, also. Christians don't have to pay attention to those 600-some odd rules. The difference, of course, is that you don't actually see Jews enforcing any of those rules.

61 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:25:49pm

I ask because I've read both books, and I get the distinct impression you haven't.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

62 FrogMarch  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:26:08pm

The man is not entitled to his opinion?

I'm so sick of this.

our nation is going down the crapper box.

63 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:26:14pm

re: #48 Jwaksman

re: #43 NJDhockeyfan


re: #31 Jwaksman

There's no reason a muslim can't should be president.

Fixed it for ya ;)


Saying bigoted stuff like that is why the leftist blogs attack lgf. There's no need for this. There ARE reasonable, intelligent muslims out there. There are muslims who think Israel is a great country, that Iran needs to be dealt with forcibly and that America is the greatest country in the world. To generalize ALL muslims based on what A LOT of muslims do is unfair and wrong. Not ALL muslims fit the stereotype.

If they are out there, I haven't seen them. The reason is

1. If a muslim does publicly support Israel and outspoken against Iran or any other Islamic ountry, they get threatened and/or killed.

2. There aren't any

64 Tasty Beverage  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:26:21pm

#21 Geepers

All John needs to do is say his remarks were taken out of context and misrepresented by Christophobes. Case closed.

HA. The press would never give him a pass for that like they do with seething ROPers, but it would be funny if someone tried to use that defense anyway, just to see what would happen.

65 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:27:12pm

re: #33 Charles

Personally, I'd take Christian principles, Jewish principles, or Budist principles over Muslim principles, or atheist principles.
Yes I know quite a few good atheists, but they would keep the wallet they find vs trying to find its rightfuk owner. Christians and Jews recognize a higher, all knowing power that they have reason to honor, or fear.

66 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:27:16pm

A muslim as president of the US wouldn't just be emir, he would be the Caliph.

67 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:27:25pm

“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses] - Patrick Henry

68 tripletdad  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:27:42pm

Religious relativism - either saying all are nuts or all are of equal attributes is a little naive. Look at the conditions of nations where Islam is the majority vs Christianity or Judaism is the majority. Not all faiths are the same or produce the same results in practice.

69 Fjordman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:27:48pm
There's no reason a muslim can't be president. Just because CAIR is run by a bunch of idiots who think their religion is superior to every other doesn't mean that all muslims believe in that. There are rational, intelligent muslims who I wouldn't mind in a position of power.

Then you have absolutely no understanding of your enemy whatsoever.

70 MJ  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:27:54pm

re: #56 xenophobic

#48 Jwaksman
I don't believe anyone said it was a Christian nation, specifically he said: was founded primarily on Christian principles
Nice try though.

According to the article, McCain said the following:

"In the interview, the senator also said the "Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation."

He did not say 'Chrisitan principles'. Where are you getting that quote?

71 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:27:56pm

Jwaksman (#50),

People telling me I'm an idiot for suggesting that it's possible that a person born in a muslim household could possibly be qualified to be US President at some point.

You just like to make shit up don't you?

72 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:27:57pm

re: #61 Charles

I ask because I've read both books, and I get the distinct impression you haven't.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

JWaksman can quote a good chunk of the Bible. And at Columbia, you are required read the vast majority of it in Core Curriculum courses. The Bible is absolutely retarded, as the Koran is absolutely retarded. Religion is absolutely retarded.

73 sheik yer'mami  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:28:11pm

re: #59 DEZes

Right. Name ONE! Show us one who believes as you say. curious as hell...

74 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:28:17pm
75 NY Nana  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:28:22pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

And you know how much I love my atheist son in law..that really hurts.

He is like our fourth son.

76 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:28:50pm

He urged McCain to “clarify his remarks” and “stress his acceptance of political candidates of any faith.”


Here ,, I'll "clarify" McCains remark. tell your sycophants to stop BLOWING PEOPLE UP. tell them the "path to peace" is NOT strapping bombs on 12 year old girls. Twell them that when one country builds 2 skyscrapers, DON'T have people fly planes into them!

There,, did that CLARIFY it for you skippy ?

77 xenophobic  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:28:57pm

MJ:
Frontpage:
I admire the Islam. There’s a lot of good principles in it,” he said. “But I just have to say in all candor that since this nation was founded primarily on Christian principles, personally, I prefer someone who I know who has a solid grounding in my faith.” ...

78 sheik yer'mami  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:29:04pm

re: #66 Thanos

A muslim as president of the US wouldn't just be emir, he would be the Caliph.

Spot on!

79 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:29:46pm

re: #52 Charles

Biblical principles made some great leaders. Washington spent quite a bit of time each day in prayer.
Heck, if just the sexual practices advocated in the Bible were adhered to, venereal disease would be all but gone in a generation.

80 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:30:13pm

re: #72 Lanaty

Religion is absolutely retarded.

/now you've done it

81 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:30:28pm

re: #79 JeremyR

re: #52 Charles

Biblical principles made some great leaders. Washington spent quite a bit of time each day in prayer.
Heck,
if just the sexual practices advocated in the Bible were adhered to,
venereal disease would be all but gone in a generation.

I thought God created AIDS to punish the gays!?!

82 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:30:28pm

Hammer in 5....4.....3....2.....

83 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:30:40pm

re: #59 DEZes

Zuhdi Jasser

84 sheik yer'mami  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:31:02pm

Meanwhile, in the real world:

RoP adherents calling for censorship:

[Link: sheikyermami.com...]

85 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:31:47pm

re: #72 Lanaty

re: #61 Charles

I ask because I've read both books, and I get the distinct impression you haven't.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

JWaksman can quote a good chunk of the Bible. And at Columbia, you are required read the vast majority of it in Core Curriculum courses. The Bible is absolutely retarded, as the Koran is absolutely retarded. Religion is absolutely retarded.

If that's what you're learning at Columbia, I feel sorry for you.

And I'm an agnostic, by the way.

86 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:31:48pm

re: #84 sheik yer'mami

You have a blog?

/who knew

87 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:31:53pm

Lanaty happens to have been born in a muslim family. In an amazingly shocking turn of events, she doesn't wear hijab. She hates Ahmadinejad, and loves Israel and America.


The Koran is not any crazier in the ideas it promotes than the Bible. The difference is that muslim countries in the middle east still enforce archaic rules as if they were in the Middle Ages. Christian countries used to enforce crazy rules... in the middle ages and before. Now, countries like the US and Europe and Israel are secular nations.


A secular muslim is fine. And could be president. To say otherwise is to be bigoted. It's the dictionary definition. Don't judge somebody by their religion.

88 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:31:56pm

re: #81 Lanaty

re: #79 JeremyR


re: #52 Charles

Biblical principles made some great leaders. Washington spent quite a bit of time each day in prayer.
Heck,
if just the sexual practices advocated in the Bible were adhered to,
venereal disease would be all but gone in a generation.


I thought God created AIDS to punish the gays!?!

Do you have proof of that statement?

89 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:32:14pm

re: #70 MJ

re: #56 xenophobic


#48 Jwaksman
I don't believe anyone said it was a Christian nation, specifically he said: was founded primarily on Christian principles
Nice try though.

According to the article, McCain said the following:

"In the interview, the senator also said the "Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation."

He did not say 'Chrisitan principles'. Where are you getting that quote?

Do a little valid research on the founding fathers. Start with Ben Franklin, the least religious of the bunch, who advocated beginning each session with prayer.

90 ted  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:32:28pm

Ta

91 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:33:13pm

re: #80 Killian Bundy

re: #72 Lanaty


Religion is absolutely retarded.

/now you've done it

That's like the two strike rule.. misuse of retarded gets you a nastygram from a couple of folks, and dissing religion isn't a good idea here.

92 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:33:18pm

re: #81 Lanaty

I thought God created AIDS to punish the gays!?!

In which book is that stated?

93 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:33:25pm
94 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:33:27pm

Lanaty sez:

Religion is absolutely retarded.

Fer sure. U rok!

Or something.

95 yah  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:33:35pm

re: #44 Jwaksman

I
don't want someone as our President who thinks the Koran should set
public policy. Obviously. But I don't want someone reading policy out
of the Bible either.

What book do you want to set public policy?

96 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:34:13pm

JWaksman and I both fully realize that the behavior of re: #85 Charles

Charles, the course is called Contemporary Civilization and it's a 2 semesters. We start with Plato/Aristotle stuff, work through religion (including the Koran, incidentally. boy, that was a fun day of class), Locke/Hobbes, and end somewhere around Foucault. I'm an engineering snob and even I enjoyed the class. No need to feel sorry for us. Most of the kids in my class were also agnostic and we had a good time bashing both the Koran and the Bible.

97 rtheyserius  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:34:16pm

re: #31 Jwaksman

There's no reason a muslim can't be president.

That is an extremely naive point of view, ignoring 1300 years of Jihad, the semi-religious political manifesto they call a holy book which calls for eternal conquest and bloodshed -- nonspecific to a particular period in history, multiple polls about how American Muslims feel about terrorism, and all the terrorist murders by Muslims around the world in current affairs.

Yeah, so every Muslim isn't a bad person. The same could be said about any militaristic group in history that waged war for world domination. There were probably a few good people who were members of the Nazi party in WWII Germany. That doesn't mean we should be open minded about having a Nazi as President of the United States.

98 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:34:35pm

re: #88 NJDhockeyfan

My sarcasm must not have been clear. Of course I do not believe that.

99 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:34:42pm

re: #79 JeremyR


Biblical principles made some great leaders. Washington spent quite a bit of time each day in prayer.
Heck, if just the sexual practices advocated in the Bible were adhered to, venereal disease would be all but gone in a generation.

You mean killing people for committing adultery? I thought that's what we complain about with regards to Iran?


I assume you expect all US Presidents to eschew pork and shrimp as well... you know, since the Bible forbids it.

100 WimbledonWomble  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:34:47pm

CAIR goes after McCAIR.

101 sheik yer'mami  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:35:00pm

Zuhdi Jasser is either an apostate or a closet Muslim, in other words a taqiyya doctor.

[Link: www.danielpipes.org...]

102 ChildOfMary  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:35:03pm

Here is more of McCain's statements -- they were part of a longer interview on his religious faith (thanks to JihadWatch):

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/220/story_22001_1.h tml

103 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:35:13pm

Shut up, Hoopie, ya' shit-slinging monkey.

104 ted  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:35:20pm

"Not all Muslims are are Terrorists, but Islam is a Religion of Violence"

105 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:35:20pm

re: #96 Lanaty

JWaksman and I both fully realize that the behavior of re: #85 Charles

Charles, the course is called Contemporary Civilization and it's a 2 semesters. We start with Plato/Aristotle stuff, work through religion (including the Koran, incidentally. boy, that was a fun day of class), Locke/Hobbes, and end somewhere around Foucault. I'm an engineering snob and even I enjoyed the class. No need to feel sorry for us. Most of the kids in my class were also agnostic and we had a good time bashing both the Koran and the Bible.

Well, that certainly clarifies things.

106 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:35:33pm

re: #81 Lanaty

re: #79 JeremyR


re: #52 Charles

Biblical principles made some great leaders. Washington spent quite a bit of time each day in prayer.
Heck,
if just the sexual practices advocated in the Bible were adhered to,
venereal disease would be all but gone in a generation.


I thought God created AIDS to punish the gays!?!

It does a good job of punishing many who are habitual cheaters. I know one guy whose girl friend got peaved, and slept with his enemy. She now has Herpes. He is debating whether to take her back since she is pregnant with his kid.

107 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:35:35pm
108 Ron Paul  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:35:37pm

Islam cannot be compared with Christianity only contrasted.

109 George guy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:35:39pm

re: #52 Charles

But it says in Joshua God ordered the extermination of the Gibeonites. That's genocide!


Of course, if the Gibeonites were half as rotten as Hamas...

110 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:35:43pm

Do I smell sock puppet?

111 MJ  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:35:49pm

re: #89 JeremyR

Do a little valid research on the founding fathers.

Bill of Rights
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

112 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:35:49pm

re: #75 NY Nana


People like Lanaty spouting "retarded religion" crap don't help. Even us atheists have our crosses to bear.
;)

113 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:35:58pm

re: #95 yah

re: #44 Jwaksman

I
don't want someone as our President who thinks the Koran should set
public policy. Obviously. But I don't want someone reading policy out
of the Bible either.

What book do you want to set public policy?

I would much rather have either a practicing Jew or Christian as president than a practicing muslim. I feel that islam is antithetical to much of American life.

114 USBeast  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:36:05pm

re: #48 Jwaksman

Jwaksman,

I hear what you're saying, but the Muslims you're defending are apostates according to the Muslims who are trying to destroy the West and establish Sharia as the law of the land.

Given the fact that the overwhelming number of people who are trying to kill other people in the name of religion are Muslims, I would have a serious problem voting for anyone who claimed to be a Muslim and a loyal American in the same breath.

There is nothing in the Bible that forbids the Constitution of the United States.

There is nothing in the Qu'ran that does not forbid it.

115 itellu3times  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:36:23pm

re: #50 Jwaksman

People telling me I'm an idiot for suggesting that it's possible that a person born in a muslim household could possibly be qualified to be US President at some point. Not all muslim politicians would act like that fool Ellison from Minnesota.

A few points. Yes, there are some very intelligent and humane Muslims out there, BUT they are there against the word of their scripture, and at severe risk from the crazed 1% of their own religion.

Plus, we just happen to be at war with their parent "civilization".

Under the circumstances, it would be almost (!) inconceivable that a rational person would give even the very best qualified Muslim a serious consideration for any elected office.

Now of course, the libs see this just the opposite way, they would elect even a known extremist, if he puts on even the thinnest veneer of civility, in the hopes of coopting him/her/it, shaming them with excess virtue. This sometimes works in a Christian culture, it might even very, very rarely work in a Muslim culture. But it's a bad bet.

116 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:36:36pm

re: #87 Jwaksman


A secular muslim is fine. And could be president. To say otherwise is to be bigoted. It's the dictionary definition. Don't judge somebody by their religion.

Where are the secular muslims? I see thousands swarming the streets when they dislike a cartoon, someone reports a koran in a toilet, cop drops a koran, etc. People die, building burn. Get the picture.

So where are the secular muslims? Why aren't they swarming the street everytime an act of terror is done in the name of their religion?

Until I see that, I will not believe they actually exist.

117 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:36:44pm

re: #92 Charles

re: #81 Lanaty


I thought God created AIDS to punish the gays!?!

In which book is that stated?

I thought God created polyester to punish the gays !

taking tongue outta cheek now

118 sheik yer'mami  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:36:58pm

We have a Mohammed El Baradei supposedly prtecting us from a Muhammedan bomb. Who will protect us from Muhammedan prez?

119 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:36:59pm

re: #81 Lanaty

re: #79 JeremyR


re: #52 Charles

Biblical principles made some great leaders. Washington spent quite a bit of time each day in prayer.
Heck,
if just the sexual practices advocated in the Bible were adhered to,
venereal disease would be all but gone in a generation.


I thought God created AIDS to punish the gays!?!

You missed your sarc tag, right? Because there's not a damned one of us here, Christian, Jew, atheist, or otherwise that thinks that.

120 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:37:46pm

The most offensive part of the Koran is Sura 4 in my opinion. Beyond that, it's about as offensive as the Bible (Old and New Testaments).

121 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:37:56pm

re: #97 rtheyserius

re: #31 Jwaksman

There's no reason a muslim can't be president.

That is an extremely naive point of view, ignoring 1300 years of Jihad, the semi-religious political manifesto they call a holy book which calls for eternal conquest and bloodshed -- nonspecific to a particular period in history, multiple polls about how American Muslims feel about terrorism, and all the terrorist murders by Muslims around the world in current affairs.

Yeah, so every Muslim isn't a bad person. The same could be said about any militaristic group in history that waged war for world domination. There were probably a few good people who were members of the Nazi party in WWII Germany. That doesn't mean we should be open minded about having a Nazi as President of the United States.


This is an extremely naive point of view. Do you really not understand that al qaeda, Hezbollah and Hamas are not the ones representing the muslim faith correctly? They are terrorists. Most muslims in the United States live NORMAL lives. Other than their skin color (speaking of arabs, at least), you couldn't tell the difference. They don't wear hijab. They don't commit suicide attacks. They are just normal people.

Saying that a muslim can't be president because there has been so much death and violence and ignorance in the middle east is like saying that no christian can be president because Christians led the Crusades, Nazi Germany, WWI and WWII.

122 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:38:07pm
I thought God created AIDS to punish the gays!?!

This is known as a "straw man" argument.

123 DEZes  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:38:19pm

Why is it that every time the issue of not wanting muslims in power That someone will remind me of what Christians did a few hundred years ago.
I hate to tell you this, But its the year 2007, And every time I hear of terrorists, Its Muslims.

124 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:38:37pm
125 sheik yer'mami  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:38:39pm

A secular muslim is fine. And could be president. To say otherwise is to be bigoted. It's the dictionary definition. Don't judge somebody by their religion.

Not bigotted. More a matter of self-preservation.

126 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:38:52pm

re: #116 NJDhockeyfan

re: #87 Jwaksman


A secular muslim is
fine. And could be president. To say otherwise is to be bigoted. It's
the dictionary definition. Don't judge somebody by their religion.

Where
are the secular muslims? I see thousands swarming the streets when they
dislike a cartoon, someone reports a koran in a toilet, cop drops a
koran, etc. People die, building burn. Get the picture.

So where
are the secular muslims? Why aren't they swarming the street everytime
an act of terror is done in the name of their religion?

Until I see that, I will not believe they actually exist.

Uh, my mother? She buys into the idea that Mohammad was a prophet, the last prophet, and is therefore a Muslim. She drinks alcohol, isn't too afraid to show cleavage, and abhors hijab. She even voted for Bush in 2000.

127 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:39:03pm

re: #106 JeremyR

re: #81 Lanaty

re: #79 JeremyR


re: #52 CharlesBiblical principles made some great leaders. Washington spent quite a bit of time each day in prayer.
Heck,
if just the sexual practices advocated in the Bible were adhered to,
venereal disease would be all but gone in a generation.


I thought God created AIDS to punish the gays!?!

It does a good job of punishing many who are habitual cheaters. I know one guy whose girl friend got peaved, and slept with his enemy. She now has Herpes. He is debating whether to take her back since she is pregnant with his kid.

If one follows biblical principals, and has only one partner of the opposite sex for life. Guess what? The probability of acquiring HIV is vanishingly small.

I book which has a fool proof method for avoiding STDs, not exactly retarded if you ask me.

128 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:39:17pm

re: #122 Charles

Actually, Charles, it's called "Sarcasm".

129 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:39:34pm
The most offensive part of the Koran is Sura 4 in my opinion. Beyond that, it's about as offensive as the Bible (Old and New Testaments).

And Lanaty moves into her comedy routine.

130 xenophobic  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:40:11pm

#128 Lanaty
Is it "really?"

131 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:40:18pm

re: #94 Geepers

Lanaty sez:

Religion is absolutely retarded.

Fer sure. U rok!

Or something.

Sounds like a KKKosKKKid fer sure, eh?

132 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:40:27pm

re: #60 Lanaty

Actually they advocate stoning BOTH parties in the adultery, unlike Islam where the guy gets a spanking and the woman gets death. Sexual purity seems to matter to God. Assuming he exists, he gave the rules, and quite a few punishments for those who stray. Since we quite stoning them, he took it upon himself to enforce the rule. He gave us a warning, gonorhea, a dire warning, Herpes, and finally AIDS. I guess HE takes it seriously, even if you don't. PHreaky PHreddy has it wrong, GOD hates all sexual immorality. He even says so.

133 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:40:30pm

In case you aren't familiar with that particular logical fallacy:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

134 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:40:39pm

re: #72 Lanaty

re: #61 Charles


I ask because I've read both books, and I get the distinct impression you haven't.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.


JWaksman can quote a good chunk of the Bible. And at Columbia, you are required read the vast majority of it in Core Curriculum courses. The Bible is absolutely retarded, as the Koran is absolutely retarded. Religion is absolutely retarded.

I take it you failed the Dale Carnegie course!

135 marwan's daughter  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:40:53pm

He's desperate for votes so he appeals to the Evangelical crowd as a last ditch effort. I have an idea. Let's put CAIR and McCain in a plastic bubble and send them away. CAIR and McCain's campaign are in it's last throes so let's end them sooner.

136 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:41:14pm

We Americans live in a house of democracy, freedom and liberty, built upon the foundation of Judeo-Christian values, and protected by a roof of reason. Anyone, any color, agnostic, atheist, or Muslim alike, is free to live here, but they are not free to deny or attempt to change these core truths.

137 MJ  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:41:15pm

re: #121 Jwaksman

Do you really not understand that al qaeda, Hezbollah and Hamas are not the ones representing the muslim faith correctly?

Oh no! The "Tiny Minority Argument".

138 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:41:21pm

re: #114 USBeast

re: #48 Jwaksman

Jwaksman,

I hear what you're saying, but the Muslims you're defending are apostates according to the Muslims who are trying to destroy the West and establish Sharia as the law of the land.

Given the fact that the overwhelming number of people who are trying to kill other people in the name of religion are Muslims, I would have a serious problem voting for anyone who claimed to be a Muslim and a loyal American in the same breath.

There is nothing in the Bible that forbids the Constitution of the United States.

There is nothing in the Qu'ran that does not forbid it.


Are almost all worldwide terrorists muslims? Of course. Are almost all of the most repressive and horrible countries and the world muslim-run? Of course.

But there ARE plenty of muslims out there who are ordinary, intelligent and rational Americans. They hate how Jihadist groups have hijacked the religion. They hate CAIR. They have the possibility of being qualified to be president. To say that they're not is to be a bigot.


The Koran advocates violence. So does the Bible. Anybody dumb enough to try to make people follow either book to the "t" isn't going to get anywhere near the Presidency.

139 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:41:31pm

GAMEY BUTTOCKS!

140 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:41:37pm

re: #128 Lanaty

re: #122 Charles

Actually, Charles, it's called "Sarcasm".

Since you're a mere hatchling, the LGF dictionary helps, try this entry.

141 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:41:47pm

Sounds like only a handful of you have actually READ the Koran, and understand which Sura I'm talking about. The rest of you are just full of it.

142 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:42:16pm

re: #135 marwan's daughter

He's desperate for votes so he appeals to the Evangelical crowd as a last ditch effort. I have an idea. Let's put CAIR and McCain in a plastic bubble and send them away. CAIR and McCain's campaign are in it's last throes so let's end them sooner.

I agree, that's why McCain said those things. Desperation is a harsh mistress.

143 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:42:19pm

Lanaty, I had hope for you, as I assumed you were a former muslim and could bring us some inside enlightenment to your former religion. I sincerely hope this is still the case and you'll lower your belligerent tone, respect other posters here and contribute useful, meaningful dialog.

But I have a hunch you've only come here - with your sockpuppet jwaksman - to start some flame war.

144 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:42:45pm

LANATY, here's a life lesson from an old guy

#1 Once you're in a hole, stop digging.

#2 I realize that because you're now in college taking many fine courses, you actually know everything. When you get older, you'll realize the more you know, the more you don't!

145 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:42:50pm

re: #122 Charles

I thought God created AIDS to punish the gays!?!

This is known as a "straw man" argument.

Actually, a straw man argument is saying that a muslim is less qualified to be President of the US because muslims commit all sorts of terrorism around the world.


Nobody thinks that a terrorist should be President. Just because somebody is born a muslim doesn't make them a terrorist or a terrorist-sympathizer.


The great thing about America is that we judge each man and woman for who they are. Not for their parents. Not for their skin color. Not for their religion.

146 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:43:07pm

re: #132 JeremyR

re: #60 Lanaty

Actually
they advocate stoning BOTH parties in the adultery, unlike Islam where
the guy gets a spanking and the woman gets death. Sexual purity seems
to matter to God. Assuming he exists, he gave the rules, and quite a
few punishments for those who stray. Since we quite stoning them, he
took it upon himself to enforce the rule. He gave us a warning,
gonorhea, a dire warning, Herpes, and finally AIDS. I guess HE takes it
seriously, even if you don't. PHreaky PHreddy has it wrong, GOD hates
all sexual immorality. He even says so.

We've got a nut! Let me guess, you are not in the field of, you know, science.

147 JammieWearingFool  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:43:21pm

Being Gay in Iran

They're speaking up, albeit anonymously.

Discovered a very, um, interesting website.

148 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:43:33pm
149 FrogMarch  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:43:51pm

Columbia is absolutely retarded.

150 tripletdad  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:43:57pm

I love these college grads who've just had their eyes opened to The Way Things Really Are and can't wait to share it with the rest of us unenlightened ones.

151 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:44:11pm

re: #109 George guy

Archaeological research has shown that many of those cultures practices sexual worship which spreads VD faster then a New York hooker. Analysis of the bones shows evidence of PID, and damage from Syphilis

152 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:44:14pm

re: #143 Noam Sayin'

Lanaty, I had hope for you, as I assumed you were a former muslim and could bring us some inside enlightenment to your former religion. I sincerely hope this is still the case and you'll lower your belligerent tone, respect other posters here and contribute useful, meaningful dialog.

But I have a hunch you've only come here - with your sockpuppet jwaksman - to start some flame war.


Actually, the rude and belligerent behavior is coming from a series of posters trying to gang up on Lanaty and I for daring to suggest that not all muslims are terrorist sympathizers. You try getting ganged up on and see if you have the composure and maturity that Lanaty has shown.

153 sheik yer'mami  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:44:20pm

A believing Muhammedan can never be Prez of the US. Either one believes in the constition or in sharia. No 2 ways about it.

154 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:44:27pm
“I admire the Islam. There’s a lot of good principles in it,”

I'll just add this to my list of reasons why I would never vote for john mccain.

155 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:44:42pm

re: #143 Noam Sayin'

I don't understand why people think I'm trying to defend Islam here. I hate Islam passionately as I hate all religion passionately. As for belligerent tone, have you read any of the other posts here?

156 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:45:24pm

US trains Gulf air forces for war with Iran

The American air force is working with military leaders from the Gulf to train and prepare Arab air forces for a possible war with Iran, The Sunday Telegraph can reveal.

An air warfare conference in Washington last week was told how American air chiefs have helped to co-ordinate intelligence-sharing with Gulf Arab nations and organise combined exercises designed to make it easier to fight together.

/more pieces moving around the chessboard

157 kiwiviv  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:45:27pm

#96 Lanaty

Most of the kids in my class were also agnostic and we had a good time bashing both the Koran and the Bible.


A couple of classes on religion do not make you wise enough to bash any faith. I would be careful if I were you.

158 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:45:33pm

re: #21 Geepers

All John needs to do is say his remarks were taken out of context and misrepresented by Christophobes. Case closed.

I agree. The mere fact that they choose to white wash exactly what cair is...is very telling. How could I trust how and when they asked questions and reported his answers.

-------------

Aside from that, no way would I vote in a muslim. I feel no guilt in saying so. Their play book is evil and I have no crystal ball when and if they'll act on it's commands.

159 the_flying_pig  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:45:46pm

Oh God, that Senator McCain is one stupid ass. I'm sick of politicians saying some honest things in general, then later "clarifying" or explaining away that honest things just to satisfy some minority voting blocs.

160 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:46:06pm

re: #148 song_and_dance_man

It's Sura 4: [Link: skepticsannotatedbible.com...]

Most of the Koran is unintelligible "God is great" etc etc. Very few Suras actually dictate any laws. Sura 4 is FULL of laws. That's why I think it's the worst one.

161 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:46:06pm

re: #149 FrogMarch

Ahmadinejad is this semester's most popular professor.

162 ChildOfMary  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:46:11pm

Is there any point in debating religion with those who are totally lacking in knowledge (which includes understanding) of the subject?

163 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:46:12pm

re: #141 Lanaty

Sounds like only a handful of you have actually READ the Koran, and understand which Sura I'm talking about. The rest of you are just full of it.

You not only FAILED the Dale Carnegie course, you scored a negative 50!

You're momma' must be soooooooo proud of you.

164 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:46:16pm

re: #152 Jwaksman

Actually, the rude and belligerent behavior is coming from a series of posters trying to gang up on Lanaty and I for daring to suggest that not all muslims are terrorist sympathizers. You try getting ganged up on and see if you have the composure and maturity that Lanaty has shown.

I think you'd get a better reception if you stopped whining about being "attacked" when people challenge your opinions.

165 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:46:29pm

re: #126 Lanaty

re: #116 NJDhockeyfan


re: #87 Jwaksman

A secular muslim is
fine. And could be president. To say otherwise is to be bigoted. It's
the dictionary definition. Don't judge somebody by their religion.

Where
are the secular muslims? I see thousands swarming the streets when they
dislike a cartoon, someone reports a koran in a toilet, cop drops a
koran, etc. People die, building burn. Get the picture.

So where
are the secular muslims? Why aren't they swarming the street everytime
an act of terror is done in the name of their religion?

Until I see that, I will not believe they actually exist.


Uh, my mother? She buys into the idea that Mohammad was a prophet, the last prophet, and is therefore a Muslim. She drinks alcohol, isn't too afraid to show cleavage, and abhors hijab. She even voted for Bush in 2000.


OK, there's one. Is she going to rally her friends and fill the streets with chanting muslims denouncing terrorism?

I guess her being a muslim make you one too?

166 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:46:53pm

Boy, I sure am glad that two people who took a couple of credits' worth of classes taught by professors who tend to have an agenda came in here and straightened out us rubes who've only been looking at this here issue for years up close and personal. Whew.

167 FrogMarch  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:47:03pm

I like this side of McCain. He has nothing to lose so he's spouting off with wild un-PC abandon. fun.

Still, I'll never forgive him for campaign finance reform. Russ Fiendgold is the worst.

168 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:47:06pm

re: #149 FrogMarch

Yeah, I'm sure you got in...

169 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:47:40pm

re: #163 MandyManners

Read both the Bible and Quran, failed in reading comprehension too.

170 itellu3times  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:47:50pm

re: #145 Jwaksman

Actually, a straw man argument is saying that a muslim is less qualified to be President of the US because muslims commit all sorts of terrorism around the world.

No, actually, that's an abuctive argument, it may be logically unfounded but it's a very common human practice, on the basis of honoring any evidence, even nonconclusive, being better than ignoring said evidence, especially where it concerns a risk to the status quo.

The great thing about America is that we judge each man and woman for who they are. Not for their parents. Not for their skin color. Not for their religion.

You don't get out much, do you? Legally, this is mostly true. In practice, there are severe limitations. This too is called freedom.

171 marwan's daughter  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:48:06pm

re: #142 Charles

re: #135 marwan's daughter

He's desperate for votes so he appeals to the Evangelical crowd as a last ditch effort. I have an idea. Let's put CAIR and McCain in a plastic bubble and send them away. CAIR and McCain's campaign are in it's last throes so let's end them sooner.
I agree, that's why McCain said those things. Desperation is a harsh mistress.

I would think CAIR would be friendly to McCain, at least because of his amnesty position. They still may be friendly in private. Wouldn't be surprised.

172 rtheyserius  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:48:41pm

Gosh, now that I think of it, I know there must be some very fine individuals who just happen to be Communists. Why should we not have a Communist as president? Wouldn't want to be bigotted.

But wait, how about the Kali worshipping Thuggies of the 17th Century? Suppose they gained a wide modern following? Should we not have one as president? All religions are to be considered equal, right?

Or for that matter, how about a Wiccan practitioner of witchcraft? President? Sure, why not? Surely there are some very fine people who are adherents of Wicca.

...to name a few. Jwaksman, your point of view seems to be (correct me if I'm wrong) that anything goes, religion-wise, concerning a president.

Open mindedness is one thing. Blindness is another.

173 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:48:41pm

re: #153 sheik yer'mami

A believing Muhammedan can never be Prez of the US. Either one believes in the constition or in sharia. No 2 ways about it.


A "believing Jesusdan" couldn't be President either. The Bible has a ton of crazy rules. Secular Christians simply don't follow them. Just like how secular muslims don't wear hijab or follow any of the crazy sharia rules.

These strawmen arguments of trying to compare any muslim politician to sharia law in Iran are insane. What a morally corrupt method of debate...

174 ted  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:49:02pm

Take NYC... We now have an Madrassa "Arab Charter School". The seemingly innocuous Iman ex-Principal defended wearing Infitada NYC T-shirts. After being booted she cried Islamophobia and that she was a victim.

Sound familiar ?

175 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:49:31pm

Jwaksman (#152),

Actually, the rude and belligerent behavior is coming from a series of posters trying to gang up on Lanaty and I for daring to suggest that not all muslims are terrorist sympathizers. You try getting ganged up on and see if you have the composure and maturity that Lanaty has shown.

LOL.

Good luck when the heat actually comes on.

176 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:49:37pm

re: #165 NJDhockeyfan

No, why would my mother being Muslim make me one also? She did want her kids to also be mildly Muslim as she was, and both my brother and I dropped it altogether. She doesn't really care anymore.

And because my mother isn't rallying in the streets, that means nobody is? Even if I named names, it's not like you would know any of these people.

177 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:49:39pm

re: #164 Charles


I think you'd get a better reception if you stopped whining about being "attacked" when people challenge your opinions.

Actually, it was another poster who whined. I simply countered that poster by pointing out how the bad behavior wasn't on my end.


If you wanted to be consistent, you'd bash THAT poster for whining. Not me.

178 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:50:04pm

re: #138 Jwaksman


The Koran advocates violence. So does the Bible.


Most Christians "evolved" and no longer advocate violence. Most muslims continue to advocate hatred and violence towards non-muslims. This demonstrated daily by them. The few muslims you speak of who are "moderate" are clearly not adhering to their faith.

179 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:50:13pm

re: #155 Lanaty

re: #143 Noam Sayin'

I don't understand why people think I'm trying to defend Islam here. I hate Islam passionately as I hate all religion passionately. As for belligerent tone, have you read any of the other posts here?

Wow, to hate something or someone so passionately, logic dictates that it must have done something terrible to you personnaly. So, were you a victim of The Inquisition? Were you burned at the stake in Salem Mass? Please, elaborate !

180 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:50:22pm
181 Ron Paul  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:50:50pm

re: #146 Lanaty

Actually Jesus did not come to earth to enforce the Law He came to Fulfill the law. His take on stoning for adultry was "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Sin has its own built in consequences. Everybody sins, the earth is cursed and each of us are responsible for our own salvation.

182 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:51:02pm

Lanaty, jwaksman, if it's not the case, I offer my apologies and commend jwaksman for standing up for him. But Lanaty has certainly not shown "composure and maturity" in calling all religion 'retarded.' Retarded is not a word a grown-up uses to describe anything, save for maybe the timing on an automobile's ignition.

And yes, Lanaty. I've read your other posts. That's why I said, "I assumed you were a former muslim and [who] could bring us some inside enlightenment to your former religion.

183 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:51:15pm

re: #175 Geepers

They both have never seen the extent of lizards going after a person who refuses to argue honestly.

184 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:51:28pm

re: #177 Jwaksman

re: #164 Charles


I think you'd get a better reception if you stopped whining about being "attacked" when people challenge your opinions.
Actually, it was another poster who whined. I simply countered that poster by pointing out how the bad behavior wasn't on my end.

If you wanted to be consistent, you'd bash THAT poster for whining. Not me.

I guess you've learned something at Columbia after all.

185 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:51:29pm

re: #152 Jwaksman

re: #143 Noam Sayin'


Lanaty, I had hope for you, as I assumed you were a former muslim and could bring us some inside enlightenment to your former religion. I sincerely hope this is still the case and you'll lower your belligerent tone, respect other posters here and contribute useful, meaningful dialog.

But I have a hunch you've only come here - with your sockpuppet jwaksman - to start some flame war.


Actually, the rude and belligerent behavior is coming from a series of posters trying to gang up on Lanaty and I for daring to suggest that not all muslims are terrorist sympathizers. You try getting ganged up on and see if you have the composure and maturity that Lanaty has shown.

I smell a setup.

186 FrogMarch  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:51:46pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

re: #149 FrogMarch

Ahmadinejad is this semester's most popular professor.

He's so deep, introspective and two-faced. yeah... so he's not into gay people. The kolumbia kidz still love him.

187 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:51:49pm

re: #144 sattv4u2

LANATY, here's a life lesson from an old guy

#1 Once you're in a hole, stop digging.

#2 I realize that because you're now in college taking many fine courses, you actually know everything. When you get older, you'll realize the more you know, the more you don't!

Sorry, but you're old, you don't know aaaannnyyythiiinnngggg....I've taken a couple of credit hours from leftist perfessers...I know it aaaalllllllll!

188 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:52:20pm

re: #145 Jwaksman

The great thing about America is that we judge each man and woman for who they are. Not for their parents. Not for their skin color. Not for their religion.

And would we want someone from Charles' Manson's cult? Jim Jones' cult? David Koresh's cult? Heaven's Gate cult?

God gave me a brain to judge people for survival. Judging is NOT a bad word and someone's religion that calls for my destruction because I won't convert is fair game to discriminate against.

And please refer to some writings on Jihadwatch when you say the bible can be just as bad as the koran. That is an ignorant, out of context argument to make equating the two, not to mention a bit insulting and offensive..but I will assume you just don't realize the differences between them. Spencer has some decent stuff on his site if you read around. He also just came out with a book.

189 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:52:43pm

re: #166 bikermailman

Boy, I sure am glad that two people who took a couple of credits' worth of classes taught by professors who tend to have an agenda came in here and straightened out us rubes who've only been looking at this here issue for years up close and personal. Whew.

The issue at hand here was whether or not JWaksman and I had actually READ the Koran and the Bible. I talked about the class to show that yes, actually, we have. They're both downright idiotic books designed to control primitive people. Of course, this offends the 40-something men who think that a guy who was nailed to two planks of wood is any more credible than some swarthy arab in the desert who wanted three wives.

190 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:52:53pm

re: #172 rtheyserius

Gosh, now that I think of it, I know there must be some very fine individuals who just happen to be Communists. Why should we not have a Communist as president? Wouldn't want to be bigotted.

But wait, how about the Kali worshipping Thuggies of the 17th Century? Suppose they gained a wide modern following? Should we not have one as president? All religions are to be considered equal, right?

Or for that matter, how about a Wiccan practitioner of witchcraft? President? Sure, why not? Surely there are some very fine people who are adherents of Wicca.

...to name a few. Jwaksman, your point of view seems to be (correct me if I'm wrong) that anything goes, religion-wise, concerning a president.

Open mindedness is one thing. Blindness is another.


No. You've managed to combine red herrings, straw men and an astounding lack of logic and reason all in one post. Impressive.


Islam is a religion. Christianity is a religion. Communism is a POLITICAL BELIEF. Sharia is a POLITICAL belief.


Someone's RELIGION doesn't affect their politics. Sure, muslims are more likely to support sharia law. But plenty of muslims hate sharia law. There are muslim communists. There are muslim libertarians. There are muslim republicans and democrats.

When you pick a president, you pick their CHARACTER and their POLITICS. Just because someone is born in a muslim home doesn't mean they can't have proper character and politics. If they support sharia law, obviously they won't get anywhere near the US Presidency.

A COMMUNIST, however, is someone who believes in... wait for it.... COMMUNIST politics. Since communist politics are antithetical to American politics, a communist wouldn't get elected president.

191 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:53:13pm

re: #169 jcm

re: #163 MandyManners

Read both the Bible and Quran, failed in reading comprehension too.

Sad-sack of shit, in my opinion.

192 AZfederalist  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:53:18pm
#99 Jwaksman

re: #79 JeremyR
Heck, if just the sexual practices advocated in the Bible were adhered to, venereal disease would be all but gone in a generation.

You mean killing people for committing adultery? I thought that's what we complain about with regards to Iran?


I assume you expect all US Presidents to eschew pork and shrimp as well... you know, since the Bible forbids it.

You apparently either don't know the Holy Bible (hey, the MSM does it with the Koran, it's certainly more appropriate for the Holy Bible) as well as you and your sock puppet are trumpeting, or you have a completely skewed understanding of what it says.

First, if you were to recognize the fact that the comments by McCain refer to Christian principles, then you would recognize that Christian theology nowhere advocates killing people for committing adultery. Those laws (the Old Testament ceremonial and theocratic laws) were set aside when Christ rose from the dead and established the New Testament era. As a matter of fact, the New Testament nowhere advocates the establishment of a theocratic government; it instructs all Christians to apply Christian values regardless of their lot in life, whether lowly or rulers, but does not demand a theocratic state.

Secondly, you are completely off-base with the snide remark about expecting US presidents to eschew pork and shrimp ... Again, you have completely missed the break between Old Testament ceremonial law and New Testament Christian freedom in those respects. Only the moral law remains, and that to serve as a mirror, curb, and guide -- not a means by which Christians attain salvation.

You are certainly demonstrating that you don't know near as much as you are loudly proclaiming to know and expecting people to bow to your superior wisdom in this respect.

193 itellu3times  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:53:26pm

re: #173 Jwaksman

A "believing Jesusdan" couldn't be President either. The Bible has a ton of crazy rules. Secular Christians simply don't follow them. Just like how secular muslims don't wear hijab or follow any of the crazy sharia rules.

OK, but the question is about the borderline cases, and at this point, pretty much every Muslim qualifies as a borderline case, and virtually no Jesusdans. That's just where we are these days. Ask me before 9/11, and I might have agreed with you. Now, I just see it as blindness.

194 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:53:34pm

re: #178 Racer X

re: #138 Jwaksman



The Koran advocates violence. So does the Bible.


Most
Christians "evolved" and no longer advocate violence. Most muslims
continue to advocate hatred and violence towards non-muslims. This
demonstrated daily by them. The few muslims you speak of who are
"moderate" are clearly not adhering to their faith.

YES. WE FULLY UNDERSTAND THIS. But to say that 100% of Muslims did NOT evolve beyond this is stupid! By my count, neither my father nor my brother have committed any honor killings.

195 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:53:41pm

re: #145 Jwaksman

The great thing about America is that we judge each man and woman for who they are. Not for their parents. Not for their skin color. Not for their religion.

And what if that religion tells them to lie in order to propagate their religion. How could we trust a "secular" muslim is indeed a secular muslim? For cryin out loud- it's in the koran!

196 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:53:51pm

Wow. This took off faster than than the titty thread.

197 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:54:02pm

re: #168 Lanaty

re: #149 FrogMarch

Yeah, I'm sure you got in...

/is this the part where we all start slamming our degrees on the table?

198 sheik yer'mami  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:54:06pm

I would vote for Wafa Sultan.

Definitely.

Or Ayaan Ali Hirsi...

Sura 4
[Link: i-cias.com...]

199 xenophobic  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:54:12pm

Moonbats are like buses:
Normally no where in sight -- then two turn up at once.

200 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:54:17pm

re: #146 Lanaty

I graduated with a degree in history, then spent twenty in the military.
You could use a few basic science courses since you seem to believe we are a product of chance. Take a stats course. You are not one chance in a million, but one in several million billion.
My view of life tells me that I was created by a King and am his adopted child. You on the other hand claim to be mutated pond scum. So, mutant, what does your mutated brain tell you?

201 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:54:45pm

re: #198 sheik yer'mami

I would vote for Wafa Sultan.

Definitely.

Or Ayaan Ali Hirsi...

Sura 4
[Link: i-cias.com...]

So would I. They'd both be outstanding.

202 JammieWearingFool  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:54:54pm
They're both downright idiotic books designed to control primitive people.

So smug.

203 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:55:48pm

re: #181 Ron Paul

re: #146 Lanaty

Actually Jesus did not come to earth to enforce the Law He came to Fulfill the law. His take on stoning for adultry was "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Sin has its own built in consequences. Everybody sins, the earth is cursed and each of us are responsible for our own salvation.

After "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" Christ turn to the woman and said, "go and sin no more." Part of redemption (from the law) is the requirement not to continue in the previous manner of life.

Many people like to use "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" part without the follow up, "sin no more."

204 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:55:51pm
205 stevieray  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:56:02pm

re: #87 Jwaksman

A secular Muslim is not a Muslim anymore than Hitler was a Christian. If you wish to claim membership in a faith, you follow its teachings to the best of your ability... simply being born into it doesn't make one a Muslim. It is not an ethnic identity... it is a set of beliefs which demand or prohibit certain actions.

Simply tossing some of your religion's tenets aside; all the while claiming to still be an adherent, is pure egotism... nothing more. You as an individual do not get to rewrite a religion to fit your personal lifestyle wishes... that renders the very core of faith moot.

Until the gates of ijtihad are thrown open, the hardliners define the faith. They have the dogma on their side, and pretending the liberals or secularists of Islam have any say in the matter is naive. Change the texts and you change the faith... until then, be ready for the charge of "apostate" to be flung at you.

Remember: Laxity is not reform.

206 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:56:03pm

re: #188 Highrise

And would we want someone from Charles' Manson's cult? Jim Jones' cult? David Koresh's cult? Heaven's Gate cult?

God gave me a brain to judge people for survival. Judging is NOT a bad word and someone's religion that calls for my destruction because I won't convert is fair game to discriminate against.

And please refer to some writings on Jihadwatch when you say the bible can be just as bad as the koran. That is an ignorant, out of context argument to make equating the two, not to mention a bit insulting and offensive..but I will assume you just don't realize the differences between them. Spencer has some decent stuff on his site if you read around. He also just came out with a book.


Okay, let me explain this one more time.... RELIGION DOES NOT DICTATE YOUR MORALS, POLITICS OR CHARACTER IN GENERAL. There are muslims who believe in ALL types of possible political ideas. Someone who chooses to join Charles Manson obviously has bad character and morality. Somebody who believes that Muhammed spoke to God does not necessarily have bad character and morality. Somebody who believes that women need to be beaten if they don't cover enough of their body DOES have bad character and morality.

The US Constitution says that we don't judge people by their religion. We can, however, judge people by their character and their politics.

207 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:56:05pm

#189 Lanaty

The issue at hand here was whether or not JWaksman and I had actually READ the Koran and the Bible. I talked about the class to show that yes, actually, we have. They're both downright idiotic books designed to control primitive people. Of course, this offends the 40-something men who think that a guy who was nailed to two planks of wood is any more credible than some swarthy arab in the desert who wanted three wives.

Two whole semesters! I'm impressed.

208 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:56:05pm

re: #190 Jwaksman

Islam is a religion.

WRONG! islam is a political movement.

209 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:56:19pm

re: #200 JeremyR

re: #146 Lanaty

I graduated with a degree in history, then spent twenty in the military.
You
could use a few basic science courses since you seem to believe we are
a product of chance. Take a stats course. You are not one chance in a
million, but one in several million billion.
My view of life tells
me that I was created by a King and am his adopted child. You on the
other hand claim to be mutated pond scum. So, mutant, what does your
mutated brain tell you?

I could use a few basic science courses? How about biomedical engineering? Statistics was a basic requirement for me, as well.

History, eh? So in other words, no science. Ever.
Pssst.... even 1/10^20 is not "impossible". The fact that we're all here proves that actually, the odds were pretty good!

210 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:56:19pm

The whole Muslim as president thing is also a strawman. It just wouldn't happen in the current geopolitical reality. Maybe in 200 years after the Islamic reformation is over it could happen. So just what is your point?

Good bye little Robin Marie, don't try following me...

211 stevieray  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:56:47pm

Damn this thread is flying... I'm over 100 comments too late!

212 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:56:56pm

re: #197 Killian Bundy

re: #168 Lanaty


re: #149 FrogMarch

Yeah, I'm sure you got in...


/is this the part where we all start slamming our degrees on the table?

Is that the same as bringing out the rulers?

213 marwan's daughter  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:57:08pm

OT-

George Bush (or Bushitler as the moonbats like to call him) has nothing on Richard Nixon, and never will. If any American President deserves to be compared to Adolf Hitler, it's him. Seriously, check out these new transcripts they just released.

214 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:57:32pm

re: #200 JeremyR

re: #146 Lanaty

I graduated with a degree in history, then spent twenty in the military.
You could use a few basic science courses since you seem to believe we are a product of chance. Take a stats course. You are not one chance in a million, but one in several million billion.
My view of life tells me that I was created by a King and am his adopted child. You on the other hand claim to be mutated pond scum. So, mutant, what does your mutated brain tell you?


Are you really dumb enough to believe in creationism? Do you think that the Sun revolves around the Earth? Do you believe the Earth is flat?


Seriously... take a science class before you make a fool of yourself.

215 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:57:38pm

re: #175 Geepers

Jwaksman (#152),

Actually, the rude and belligerent behavior is coming from a series of posters trying to gang up on Lanaty and I for daring to suggest that not all muslims are terrorist sympathizers. You try getting ganged up on and see if you have the composure and maturity that Lanaty has shown.

LOL.

Good luck when the heat actually comes on.

Certainly whines like a muslim.

216 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:57:40pm

re: #207 Charles

#189 Lanaty

The
issue at hand here was whether or not JWaksman and I had actually READ
the Koran and the Bible. I talked about the class to show that yes,
actually, we have. They're both downright idiotic books designed to
control primitive people. Of course, this offends the 40-something men
who think that a guy who was nailed to two planks of wood is any more
credible than some swarthy arab in the desert who wanted three wives.

Two whole semesters! I'm impressed.

So, I'm not allowed to have an opinion on the Bible and the Koran even though I've read them? But Creationist nut who has never taken a science course is?

217 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:57:41pm

re: #202 JammieWearingFool

They're both downright idiotic books designed to control primitive people.

So smug.

Does that mean the new TV show "Cavemen" is NOT a documentary !?!?!

218 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:57:50pm

Two whole semesters to teach how awful all religions are, and apparently none to teach arguing coherently.

219 Ron Paul  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:57:57pm

re: #194 Lanaty

Christians did not evolve, they reverted back to the original teachings of Jesus.

220 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:58:10pm

re: #215 bikermailman

He's Jewish. Happy?

221 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:58:23pm

Perplexed (#183),

They both have never seen the extent of lizards going after a person who refuses to argue honestly.

I have the distinct impression that may soon well change.

222 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:58:26pm

re: #207 Charles

#189 Lanaty

The issue at hand here was whether or not JWaksman and I had actually READ the Koran and the Bible. I talked about the class to show that yes, actually, we have. They're both downright idiotic books designed to control primitive people. Of course, this offends the 40-something men who think that a guy who was nailed to two planks of wood is any more credible than some swarthy arab in the desert who wanted three wives.

Two whole semesters! I'm impressed.


Don't be an a-hole to her. She knows more about the Koran than most muslims, and more about the Bible than most Christians. She has educated things to say, and nothing she has said warrants that type of sarcasm.

223 Venezuela lover  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:58:34pm

Muslims have to earn the right to complain. They are the most prejudiced religion on the planet. When churches and all religions are allowed with equal standing in Saudi Arabia and other islamic countries, then I will agree to listen to their complaints of unequal treatment. Until then, they can just STFU.

224 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:59:03pm

Wow.

225 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:59:05pm

re: #185 NJDhockeyfan

re: #152 Jwaksman


re: #143 Noam Sayin'

Lanaty, I had hope for you, as I assumed you were a former muslim and could bring us some inside enlightenment to your former religion. I sincerely hope this is still the case and you'll lower your belligerent tone, respect other posters here and contribute useful, meaningful dialog.
But I have a hunch you've only come here - with your sockpuppet jwaksman - to start some flame war.

Actually, the rude and belligerent behavior is coming from a series of posters trying to gang up on Lanaty and I for daring to suggest that not all muslims are terrorist sympathizers. You try getting ganged up on and see if you have the composure and maturity that Lanaty has shown.

I smell a setup.

You had that thought too, huh? Methinks some cut and paste material will show up on Kos, or HuffPoo, or some equally superior blog in the coming days or weeks.

226 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:59:10pm

re: #177 Jwaksman

re: #164 Charles


I think you'd get a better reception if you stopped whining about being "attacked" when people challenge your opinions.

Actually, it was another poster who whined. I simply countered that poster by pointing out how the bad behavior wasn't on my end.


If you wanted to be consistent, you'd bash THAT poster for whining. Not me.

I believe you're referring to me. If this is so, please feel free to mention my nick. If I was whining - I'll own up to it. But folks know me here. I don't whine. If that's not the case, then skip it.

And if you think I was whining, you have a rather low threshold for it.

227 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:59:19pm
228 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:59:20pm

re: #176 Lanaty

re: #165 NJDhockeyfan

No, why would my mother being Muslim make me one also? She did want her kids to also be mildly Muslim as she was, and both my brother and I dropped it altogether. She doesn't really care anymore.

And because my mother isn't rallying in the streets, that means nobody is? Even if I named names, it's not like you would know any of these people.


Well I don't know anyone's name in the videos shown on tv during the cartoon riots but I see whats happening. What I am saying is the so called moderate muslims either don't exist or hide their moderation because of fear of relatiation from the radicals.

Ummm...what is the definition or 'mildly muslim'?

229 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:59:20pm

re: #190 Jwaksman

Someone's RELIGION doesn't affect their politics. Sure, muslims are more likely to support sharia law. But plenty of muslims hate sharia law. There are muslim communists. There are muslim libertarians. There are muslim republicans and democrats.

A person derives their morality from where? A muslim derives his morality from the koran. A Christian, the Bible and a Jew the Talmude. I've read both the koran and Bible and find the koran the idiot's guide to global domination.

When you pick a president, you pick their CHARACTER and their POLITICS. Just because someone is born in a muslim home doesn't mean they can't have proper character and politics. If they support sharia law, obviously they won't get anywhere near the US Presidency.

Muslims are ordered to lie so as to further the cause of global domination. That's paraphrased and in the koran.

A COMMUNIST, however, is someone who believes in... wait for it.... COMMUNIST politics. Since communist politics are antithetical to American politics, a communist wouldn't get elected president.

And a muslim believes in muslim politics which are also antithetical to American politics.

230 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:59:36pm

re: #189 Lanaty

a guy who was nailed to two planks of wood

/what's next, a shot at the Pope?

231 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 7:59:39pm
RELIGION DOES NOT DICTATE YOUR MORALS, POLITICS OR CHARACTER IN GENERAL.


Heh

232 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:00:07pm

re: #216 Lanaty

So, I'm not allowed to have an opinion on the Bible and the Koran even though I've read them?

Yes LANATY. you ARE alloweed to have any opinion you care to have. Thats the beauty of this experiment we call the USA. You're entitled to be as wrong as you care to be !

233 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:00:10pm

re: #224 Sharmuta

It's quite a show tonight.

234 Ron Paul  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:00:37pm

re: #208 Sharmuta

Islam is a political movement that requires one to pray five times a day and kill infidels to secure one's eternal salvation, cute.

235 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:00:51pm

re: #192 AZfederalist


Secondly, you are completely off-base with the snide remark about expecting US presidents to eschew pork and shrimp ... Again, you have completely missed the break between Old Testament ceremonial law and New Testament Christian freedom in those respects. Only the moral law remains, and that to serve as a mirror, curb, and guide -- not a means by which Christians attain salvation.

You are certainly demonstrating that you don't know near as much as you are loudly proclaiming to know and expecting people to bow to your superior wisdom in this respect.


Hmm, okay, so I guess then we can't have a Jewish President, right? Jews don't believe in the New Testament. A lot of Jews DO eat by the kosher rules. Remember all the effort Joe Lieberman had to go through to make every kitchen he used during his '04 presidential run kosher? Should any Jew who doesn't follow all of the rules not be allowed to be President? Or should any Jew that DOES follow those rules not be allowed, since you think those rules are silly and don't follow them? I just want to know the extent of this hole you're digging for yourself.

236 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:01:06pm

re: #190 Jwaksman


Islam is a religion. Christianity is a religion. Communism is a POLITICAL BELIEF. Sharia is a POLITICAL belief.

Sharia is NOT a political belief. Sharia is the Islamic law as administered by an Islamic Theocracy as directed by the Quran. Sharia is the political administration of Islam. It is part and parcel of the religion of Islam.

237 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:01:16pm

re: #230 Killian Bundy

re: #189 Lanaty

a guy who was nailed to two planks of wood

/what's next, a shot at the Pope?

Why not? He thinks contraception is a one way ticket to hell. GENIUS!

238 FrogMarch  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:01:21pm

re: #197 Killian Bundy

re: #168 Lanaty

re: #149 FrogMarch

Yeah, I'm sure you got in...

/is this the part where we all start slamming our degrees on the table?

College!

239 capitalist piglet  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:01:41pm

Somewhat OT, but has anyone mentioned that the House Democrats are going to go after Rush on Monday? Linked from Rush's site: House Democrats Prepare to Introduce Resolution Castigating Rush Limbaugh on House Floor Monday

240 ChildOfMary  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:01:47pm

re: #190 Jwaksman

Islam is a religion. Christianity is a religion. Communism is a POLITICAL BELIEF. Sharia is a POLITICAL belief.

No, you need to go back to class (or take another one). Sharia is an integral part of Islam. Islam makes no distinction between church (or mosque) and state. A true Islamic state dictates the organization and laws of the peoples it governs -- it exists to ensure that all it's members obey the laws of Islam -- the laws of Islam are the laws of the state -- no separation whatsoever. Everything is controlled by religious rules and laws, from dress codes to taxes to marriage to divorce to the rights of the ruler and those he holds power over.

If you did not learn that very basic fact in the classes you took then you wasted your tuition dollars.

241 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:02:17pm

re: #232 sattv4u2

re: #216 Lanaty

Yes LANATY. you ARE alloweed to have any opinion you care to have.
Thats the beauty of this experiment we call the USA. You're entitled to
be as wrong as you care to be !

Ohhh okay. Christianity is totally right about everything. Got it.

242 George guy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:02:23pm

I hate the lumping in of religion with things like ethnic background and social background.

One of these things is not like the others.

You can't choose where or how you were born, or who your parents were. And you can't choose your parents' religion, which they most likely raised you in.

But you can choose which religion to believe in, which rules to live your life by. And that speaks to the content of your character a great deal more than the random circumstances of your birth and upbringing. Remember that one guy who had a dream, that people will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character?

Assuming orthodox interpretations of the Quran and the Hadiths, Islam commands its adherents to wage war on the rest of humanity and create hell on earth.

Of course interpretations vary, but there is only so far one can go in reinterpreting a holy book before you're basically making up your own stuff and cherry picking text that happens to go along with it. You might end up with a nice belief system when you're done but it's not exactly going to qualify as whatever it was originally.

243 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:02:33pm

re: #214 Jwaksman

re: #200 JeremyR


re: #146 Lanaty

I graduated with a degree in history, then spent twenty in the military.
You could use a few basic science courses since you seem to believe we are a product of chance. Take a stats course. You are not one chance in a million, but one in several million billion.
My view of life tells me that I was created by a King and am his adopted child. You on the other hand claim to be mutated pond scum. So, mutant, what does your mutated brain tell you?


Are you really dumb enough to believe in creationism? Do you think that the Sun revolves around the Earth? Do you believe the Earth is flat?


Seriously... take a science class before you make a fool of yourself.

If you have an intelligent argument you don't need to go ad hominem, which you pretty much have done every comment.
How many scientists are Christians? Do you know?

244 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:02:39pm

re: #226 Noam Sayin'

I believe you're referring to me. If this is so, please feel free to mention my nick. If I was whining - I'll own up to it. But folks know me here. I don't whine. If that's not the case, then skip it.

And if you think I was whining, you have a rather low threshold for it.

I wasn't calling you anything. Charles called me a whiner for complaining about you after you had made the same complaints about me. I pointed out how he had made a logical contradiction by calling me a whiner, when if he really cared about "whining" he would have called you out first.

245 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:02:58pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

Wish I'd known to bring popcorn.

246 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:03:00pm

Did someone just call Charles an asshole?

/hold on while I refill my drink

247 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:03:01pm

re: #189 Lanaty

Was you Koran written in english? or Arabic?

248 kiwiviv  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:03:12pm

#189 Lanaty

The issue at hand here was whether or not JWaksman and I had actually READ the Koran and the Bible. I talked about the class to show that yes, actually, we have. They're both downright idiotic books designed to control primitive people. Of course, this offends the 40-something men who think that a guy who was nailed to two planks of wood is any more credible than some swarthy arab in the desert who wanted three wives.


This guy who was nailed to two planks of wood has filled the heavens and earth with more grace, love and wisdom than you have in your little toe. His wisdom and grace has lasted for thousands of years and will continue for eternity...while yours will end with this discussion. You obviously studied words in a book and never bothered to inquire of the source of the Bible - let me tell you - His love for you tonight is complete, and your need of Him is obvious.

249 lookingup  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:03:19pm

re: #111 MJ

re: #89 JeremyR


Do a little valid research on the founding fathers.

Bill of Rights
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

The first amendment prevents congress, it does not prohibit the states from supporting a religion. The founding fathers were not afraid of religion, indeed embraced it. The first house of representatives of Pennsylvania had to swear allegiance to the Constitution and that they were Christian. Have family docs to prove.

250 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:03:21pm

re: #241 Lanaty

Ohhh okay. Christianity is totally right about everything. Got it.

Straw man. Again.

251 Outrider  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:03:29pm

OT:
I was just reading Dear Abbey today and there was a letter from "Sad Girl in Kuwait" that has a problem with her parents. It seems they think she is with some boy. She isn't allowed to wear western clothes and will not be allowed to pick her own career. She wanted to know what to do to get her parents to trust her to make these decisions.

Poor Abby, not being familiar with their culture or religion, replies the girl merely needs to volunteer information to her parents as they probably assume she has something to hide or has told a falsehood.

So there you have it. The solution to the problems with Islam is lack of trust! Yeah...that's it. They just need to be better informed. First step? Inform them to get their tired butts out of the seventh century and into the 21st. Second step? Inform them of the consequences of screwing with the West and follow up with judicious amounts of firepower.

You get the idea.......

252 JammieWearingFool  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:04:11pm

re: #239 capitalist piglet

Somewhat OT, but has anyone mentioned that the House Democrats are going to go after Rush on Monday? Linked from Rush's site: House Democrats Prepare to Introduce Resolution Castigating Rush Limbaugh on House Floor Monday


I suggested yesterday they'd be so stupid as to do that.

That thing is a total joke.

253 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:04:20pm

And by the way, I didn't call either of you "assholes."

That must be something they teach at Columbia University.

254 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:04:23pm

re: #250 Charles

An intellectually lazy one, at that.

255 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:04:49pm

re: #214 Jwaksman

re: #200 JeremyR


re: #146 Lanaty

I graduated with a degree in history, then spent twenty in the military.
You could use a few basic science courses since you seem to believe we are a product of chance. Take a stats course. You are not one chance in a million, but one in several million billion.
My view of life tells me that I was created by a King and am his adopted child. You on the other hand claim to be mutated pond scum. So, mutant, what does your mutated brain tell you?


Are you really dumb enough to believe in creationism? Do you think that the Sun revolves around the Earth? Do you believe the Earth is flat?


Seriously... take a science class before you make a fool of yourself.

You are the dumbfuck here if you beileve that Christians believe that the Earth is flat and that the Sun revolves around the Earth.

256 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:04:49pm

re: #236 jcm


Islam is a religion. Christianity is a religion. Communism is a POLITICAL BELIEF. Sharia is a POLITICAL belief.

Sharia is NOT a political belief. Sharia is the Islamic law as administered by an Islamic Theocracy as directed by the Quran. Sharia is the political administration of Islam. It is part and parcel of the religion of Islam.


Wow. wow. I also don't believe in Christian Presidents because Nazis believed they were following out the true laws of Jesus.


Oh, wait... you mean that the Nazis had an improper intepretation of the religion and only THOUGHT they were right? Hmm...

I think even you could figure out what I'm getting at ;)

257 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:04:56pm

re: #243 Thanos

How many scientists are Christians?

Imagine how many of our politicians are Christians. 80-85%?
Imagine how our country would be different if they were 85% Muslim.

258 NY Nana  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:05:19pm

re: #112 Killgore Trout

I agree...and this is a democracy.

259 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:05:30pm

LANATY, I asked this in an earlier post, and would really lo=ike an answer, so ,,,
LANATY "I don't understand why people think I'm trying to defend Islam here. I hate Islam passionately as I hate all religion passionately."

Wow, to hate something or someone so passionately, logic dictates that it must have done something terrible to you personnaly. So, were you a victim of The Inquisition? Were you burned at the stake in Salem Mass? Please, elaborate !

260 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:05:53pm

re: #218 Charles

Two whole semesters to teach how awful all religions are, and apparently none to teach arguing coherently.

Point out exactly where you think I have argued incoherently.

Do you realize that when you claim that there are NO Moderate Muslims, that all that needs to be done to prove you wrong is to show you one? All of my family's friends are moderate muslims. They drink alcohol, they don't pray, they don't fast. They disregard Islam's rules about women and inheritance and everything else--they just believe that there is a God and that his final prophet was Muhammad. (Personally, I feel that the idea of a prophet, period, is dumb. It always manages to be some illiterate guy who is just *lucky* to have God talking to him) It's the same way that Reform Judaism does not represent Orthodox Judaism or Hasidism. Is that really so bizarre? They might not be parading in the streets but that doesn't mean they don't EXIST.

261 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:06:07pm

re: #244 Jwaksman

re: #226 Noam Sayin'

I believe you're referring to me. If this is so, please feel free to mention my nick. If I was whining - I'll own up to it. But folks know me here. I don't whine. If that's not the case, then skip it.

And if you think I was whining, you have a rather low threshold for it.

I wasn't calling you anything. Charles called me a whiner for complaining about you after you had made the same complaints about me. I pointed out how he had made a logical contradiction by calling me a whiner, when if he really cared about "whining" he would have called you out first.

So, you weren't calling me a whiner, but because you whined about my whining and got called out for whining, then said pre-whiner should also be called out for pre-whining and instigating the whining henceforth?

Cheese!

262 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:06:10pm

re: #253 Charles

And by the way, I didn't call either of you "assholes."

That must be something they teach at Columbia University.


Can you have a post without an ad hominem attack against me or Lanaty? I'd appreciate it. Thanks.


If you want to debate something then debate it. But just making fun of some classes that you think that one or both of us has taken is just a waste of time. And logically faulty.

263 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:06:21pm

Jwaksman on Lanaty:

She knows more about the Koran than most muslims, and more about the Bible than most Christians. She has educated things to say,

Yes, educated stuff.

Like:

The Bible is absolutely retarded, as the Koran is absolutely retarded. Religion is absolutely retarded.

What more really needs to be said after that succinct summation?

264 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:06:22pm

re: #189 Lanaty

re: #166 bikermailman


Boy, I sure am glad that two people who took a couple of credits' worth of classes taught by professors who tend to have an agenda came in here and straightened out us rubes who've only been looking at this here issue for years up close and personal. Whew.

The issue at hand here was whether or not JWaksman and I had actually READ the Koran and the Bible. I talked about the class to show that yes, actually, we have. They're both downright idiotic books designed to control primitive people. Of course, this offends the 40-something men who think that a guy who was nailed to two planks of wood is any more credible than some swarthy arab in the desert who wanted three wives.

Actually, I wasn't referring to your opinion of the bible at all. I was referring to your arrogant attitudes, and presuming to have the tiniest bit more knowledge than many of the people in here. Many of whom have been studying the dickens out of islam, both koranic, and as practiced today. Many of whom are atheists or agnotstics.

265 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:06:30pm

re: #256 Jwaksman

islam is not a religion- it is a political movement disguised as a religion.

266 FrogMarch  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:06:49pm

re: #239 capitalist piglet

Somewhat OT, but has anyone mentioned that the House Democrats are going to go after Rush on Monday? Linked from Rush's site: House Democrats Prepare to Introduce Resolution Castigating Rush Limbaugh on House Floor Monday

I wonder if congress has anything to say about Scott Beauchamp?

267 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:06:59pm

re: #206 Jwaksman


RELIGION DOES NOT DICTATE YOUR MORALS, POLITICS OR CHARACTER IN GENERAL

Uhh...what? This is very naive. If you are going to YELL/Emphasize with caps at me, make sure it's a point you can prove :) and isn't based on naive principles.

There are muslims who believe in ALL types of possible political ideas.

Their koran commands that I die. Do you have a crystal ball that tells me which one will follow their koran on whatever path towards this? If I had that, it would make this much easier for me. I know what their koran calls for and it isn't something that I wish to put into a voting or decision making job for my welfare or my kid's.

Someone who chooses to join Charles Manson obviously has bad character and morality.

I think you just made my point. Their koran shows me that they have potential for bad character and morality as their evil seed koran is not compatible with the West in terms of leading and giving freedom to people and living strictly by it among us. Who is to say that people who are into the cults I listed above (which you chose just manson) weren't good people and could have led if you follow your logic about islamists?

Somebody who believes that women need to be beaten if they don't cover enough of their body DOES have bad character and morality.

Someone who follows a religion whether they practice that part or not, shows that their judgement should be questioned.


The US Constitution says that we don't judge people by their religion. We can, however, judge people by their character and their politics.

Point to where the Constitution says I have to take that in consideration when I vote. I'll get grey hairs before you come up with that.


I find your equivalence of the bible and koran ignorant. Please read some jihadwatch.com . You will learn a lot and that that comparison makes you lose credibility when you debate people especially lizards.

268 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:07:01pm

re: #260 Lanaty

Do you realize that when you claim that there are NO Moderate Muslims...

Straw man.

269 JammieWearingFool  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:07:08pm

I have to say, there's something oddly fascinating seeing two nitwits who've been here five days picking fights with everyone who dares question their idiocy.

270 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:07:26pm

re: #243 Thanos

Why would it matter how many Scientists are Christians? Being a Christian does not guarantee that you believe in Creationism.

271 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:07:27pm

re: #245 Sharmuta

I like the coordinated attack. Nice touch.

272 hous bin pharteen  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:07:43pm

re: #246 Killian Bundy

Missed that!
Damn!
Where is the instant replay!

273 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:07:55pm

re: #214 Jwaksman

So now we are stupid if we believe in Creationism and not in what YOU believe?

Is this where I decry *don't judge me*?

Now you are just getting flat irritating.

274 Noam Sayin's Sock Puppet  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:07:55pm

Do I smell sock puppet?

Or is that just me?

Ha!

275 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:07:55pm
276 Ron Paul  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:07:58pm

re: #260 Lanaty
So they are not really muslims after all but they have to "say" they are still muslim so they don't get killed for being apostates, right?

277 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:08:06pm

re: #237 Lanaty

Nice, now how about the Jews?

/you can't achieve LGF fame without taking a cheap shot at the Jews

278 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:08:15pm

re: #255 MandyManners

You are the dumbfuck here if you beileve that Christians believe that the Earth is flat and that the Sun revolves around the Earth.


Wait. Hang on. Some guy argues that all of science is wrong, and creationism is reality, then I parody him... and you're calling ME the idiot?


You're not a creationist also, are you? I can't believe that we still have creationists in the 21st century. Anybody who believes everything they read in a religious text in a nimwit. Be they muslim or any other religion.


I'm not an atheist, I'm an observant Jew. But I'm not stupid enough to think that there haven't been advancements in science in the last 3000 years.

279 easy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:08:21pm

This is as fun to read as the Auburn / Florida game is to watch.

280 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:08:36pm

re: #262 Jwaksman

Can you have a post without an ad hominem attack against me or Lanaty?

Excellent!

281 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:08:43pm

re: #196 MandyManners

Wow. This took off faster than than the titty thread.

To think you and Pamela were complaining (commenting?) about a titty thread getting so much attention.

282 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:08:49pm

re: #260 Lanaty

re: #218 Charles


Two whole semesters to teach how awful all religions are, and apparently none to teach arguing coherently.

Point out exactly where you think I have argued incoherently.

Do you realize that when you claim that there are NO Moderate Muslims, that all that needs to be done to prove you wrong is to show you one? All of my family's friends are moderate muslims. They drink alcohol, they don't pray, they don't fast. They disregard Islam's rules about women and inheritance and everything else--they just believe that there is a God and that his final prophet was Muhammad. (Personally, I feel that the idea of a prophet, period, is dumb. It always manages to be some illiterate guy who is just *lucky* to have God talking to him) It's the same way that Reform Judaism does not represent Orthodox Judaism or Hasidism. Is that really so bizarre? They might not be parading in the streets but that doesn't mean they don't EXIST.

You keep saying that. Nobody said there were not moderate muslims. We have said that the extremists call them apostates or takfir. You have yet to answer that.
The only thing you've done is pissed all over all religion in a rather pointless manner. What's that all about? Do you think it perhaps a bit rude considering most posters here are religious to some extent?

283 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:09:06pm

re: #99 Jwaksman

re: #79 JeremyR


Biblical principles made some great leaders. Washington spent quite a bit of time each day in prayer.
Heck, if just the sexual practices advocated in the Bible were adhered to, venereal disease would be all but gone in a generation.

You mean killing people for committing adultery? I thought that's what we complain about with regards to Iran?


I assume you expect all US Presidents to eschew pork and shrimp as well... you know, since the Bible forbids it.

Apparently you indeed are a twit. I said sexual practices, not the law. Maybe you should try reading comprehension?
try keeping you brain in your trousers until you get married. Marry a woman who has not had another mans head in side her. stay with your partner, no hanky panky, no dogs, no other guys. gee, its not that hard, even if your brain is at the end of a three inch spineless eyeless appendage that tends to leak yellow water.
Sarc off Now get a CLUE!

284 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:09:40pm

(That's coming from someone who just called me an "asshole" for challenging his opinions.)

285 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:09:44pm

re: #214 Jwaksman

re: #200 JeremyR

re: #146 Lanaty

I graduated with a degree in history, then spent twenty in the military.
You could use a few basic science courses since you seem to believe we are a product of chance. Take a stats course. You are not one chance in a million, but one in several million billion.
My view of life tells me that I was created by a King and am his adopted child. You on the other hand claim to be mutated pond scum. So, mutant, what does your mutated brain tell you?


Are you really dumb enough to believe in creationism? Do you think that the Sun revolves around the Earth? Do you believe the Earth is flat?


Seriously... take a science class before you make a fool of yourself.

My degree is in bio-chemistry, I work in electrical engineering. And I am dumb enough to believe in creationism. The probability of the of the human genome occurring, I did the math, is 24212 a statistical impossibility. Biological systems require the simultaneous evolution of DNA, and the enzymes to replicate DNA, but the enzyme is needed to replicate DNA and DNA is needed to make the enzyme. And that is just a start.

For someone to close their mind to possibilities is foolish.

286 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:09:48pm

re: #276 Ron Paul

They live in Pennsylvania. They're not at risk for being Murdered for converting in PENNSYLVANIA.

287 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:09:59pm

re: #278 Jwaksman

This coming from someone who tells us we have no right to judge a cult follower of a text that calls for our destruction?

What? I think this stuff only goes one way with you. We can't judge to our standards, but it is ok for you to judge by yours.

Stunning.

288 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:10:31pm

re: #270 Lanaty

re: #243 Thanos

Why would it matter how many Scientists are Christians? Being a Christian does not guarantee that you believe in Creationism.

Um, you are the only one bringing up creationism or talking about it, and it has nothing to do with the subject of the thread. What's your motive?

289 xenophobic  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:10:40pm


Don't be an a-hole to her. She knows more about the Koran than most muslims, and more about the Bible than most Christians. She has educated things to say, and nothing she has said warrants that type of sarcasm.


anybody who believes everything they read in a religious text in a nimwit. "

They're both downright idiotic books designed to control primitive people.re: #15 kiwiviv

Seems to me you two are the ones throwing around the insults?

290 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:11:23pm

Murtha ordered to testify in defamation suit.

Looks like he will have to answer to a court for his "Cold Blooded Murder" claims.

291 NY Nana  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:11:30pm

re: #221 Geepers

From your mouth to G-d's ear....

292 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:11:32pm
293 hous bin pharteen  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:11:33pm

re: #281 bikermailman

DAmn.
I missed that one as well.

294 Ron Paul  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:11:41pm

re: #286 Lanaty
They are not muslims, silly.

295 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:12:00pm

Lanaty asks:

Point out exactly where you think I have argued incoherently.

OK.

Ohhh okay. Christianity is totally right about everything. Got it.

This is easy.

296 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:12:03pm

re: #267 Highrise

Their koran commands that I die. Do you have a crystal ball that tells me which one will follow their koran on whatever path towards this? If I had that, it would make this much easier for me. I know what their koran calls for and it isn't something that I wish to put into a voting or decision making job for my welfare or my kid's.


I think you just made my point. Their koran shows me that they have potential for bad character and morality as their evil seed koran is not compatible with the West in terms of leading and giving freedom to people and living strictly by it among us. Who is to say that people who are into the cults I listed above (which you chose just manson) weren't good people and could have led if you follow your logic about islamists?


Some Christians believed that the Bible said we should launch Crusades. Others said the Bible said we should kill all the Jews. Do YOU have a crystal ball that allows me to know which Christians will follow those interpretations of the Bible? According to your (il)logic, without that crystal ball we can't elect any Christians president.

And as for your second paragraph, you proved your inability to comprehend the concept of "religion." Do you know why most muslims become muslims? It's not because they like terrorism. It's not because they're bad people. It's because their parents were muslim and believe Muhammed was a prophet.

297 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:12:35pm

re: #256 Jwaksman

Sharia is NOT a political belief. Sharia is the Islamic law as administered by an Islamic Theocracy as directed by the Quran. Sharia is the political administration of Islam. It is part and parcel of the religion of Islam.

/nuance

298 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:12:36pm

re: #284 Charles

Charles, BTW, here's a letter I sent to the local and national CAIR office, as well as most major newspapers in the country after the stories about school districts banning religious holiday celebrations so they won't 'offend" Muslims.

Dear ISLAM practitioners,

What is it about your religion that makes you so "sensitive' that you cannot bear any other religious celebration? As a 53 year old man, I grew up Catholic, and celebrated not only my religions traditions, but also those of my no-catholic friends. Likewise, I was more than happy to be invited to my friends celebrations, be they Jewish, Mormon, or any of the protestant sects. I was thrilled to celebrate Kwanzaa in its early incarnation in the USA, as at that time I was dating a black woman. It was a wonderful celebration of food, family, friends and festivities. Through all of this I never once felt offended, nor was I when friends decided for whatever reason not to celebrate any of my Catholic holidays.

What is it about your religion where if someone prints an "offensive" article or cartoon, a contract (fatwa) is placed on their head? Will Salmann Rushdie ever be permitted to walk in public without fear that someone might 'off" him? Are you inspired by the Mafia in this? If you were consistent, you would be morally outraged by the "PissChrist" and "DungMary" and San Francisco gay leather "Last Supper" "ART" that besmirched my religion. Please direct me to any articles that a Muslim wrote condemning these displays.

I have included my e-mail address and would love to see a response.

299 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:12:41pm

re: #277 Killian Bundy

Why would I insult Jews? They're not the ones running for office claiming that this country was founded upon the principles of their religion (even though, technically, it was--John McCain should thank the Jews for giving him a religion)

300 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:12:56pm

re: #287 Highrise

re: #289 xenophobic

I can say the same thing to both of your posts- it's called "hypocrisy".

301 David IV of Georgia  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:13:52pm

You've read the entire Bible? Few Christians and Jews have.

Does that include the Bible books that are usually found only in Bible in the Roman Catholic and Greek/Russian tradition?

If my main introduction to biblical literature was a college course, I too would think the Bible was a crackpot's handbook for insanity. I would suggest you read outside the course syllabus.

The statement that God punished gays with AIDS is usually attributed to Jerry Falwell. This information is hearsay, I have no reference or proof.

302 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:13:53pm

re: #285 jcm


My degree is in bio-chemistry, I work in electrical engineering. And I am dumb enough to believe in creationism. The probability of the of the human genome occurring, I did the math, is 24212 a statistical impossibility. Biological systems require the simultaneous evolution of DNA, and the enzymes to replicate DNA, but the enzyme is needed to replicate DNA and DNA is needed to make the enzyme. And that is just a start.

For someone to close their mind to possibilities is foolish.

The probability of the human genome being created out of... what? A random collection of random elements? Nobody ever claimed it was.


What school did you get your degree in? Bob Jones University? It's hard to imagine a creationist having the mental capacity to get into an accredited school.

303 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:14:17pm

re: #299 Lanaty

Because "all religion is retarded"?

304 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:14:18pm

Wow - I come over to post the murtha news and we are having a donnybrook.

Cewl.

305 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:14:20pm

re: #208 Sharmuta

re: #190 Jwaksman


Islam is a religion.

WRONG! islam is a political movement.

Wrong...it's a political, religious, social movement. It's intended to completely rule every facet of life. No, Lanaty, you may not use Medieval Christian Europe as an example. Christianity was not set up by its founders to be anything of the sort. Medieval Europe turned out to be such an animal because men made it so.

306 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:14:47pm

re: #65 JeremyR

re: #33 Charles

Personally, I'd take Christian principles, Jewish principles, or Budist principles over Muslim principles, or atheist principles.
Yes I know quite a few good atheists, but they would keep the wallet they find vs trying to find its rightfuk owner. Christians and Jews recognize a higher, all knowing power that they have reason to honor, or fear.


Kind of a smear on atheists, eh? There is absolutely no reason to link atheism with dishonesty. Honesty, and respect for private property rights are qualities that time and experience have proven to be necessary to maintain a civil society. One does not need to have one's ethics handed to him on stone tablets. If that works for you, fine, but I can apply my reason and logic to the record of human experience, and arrive at fundamentally the same set of rules.

Funny, ain't it? If the only thing that impels you to return a lost wallet to its rightful owner is fear of, or honor for a higher power, then I'd say I have a higher standard of morality than you. I'd return it because returning it is the right thing to do. Period.

307 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:14:50pm

re: #288 Thanos

No, another poster brought up the topic of Creationism, and another poster asked (as if to imply that Christians are inherently intelligent) "Do you know how many Scientists are Christian?"

308 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:14:51pm

re: #298 sattv4u2

Hope you don't mind. I'm going to use that, with a few of my own additions.

Great letter.

309 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:14:52pm
310 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:15:16pm

The straw men are flying fast and furious now.

311 markie  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:16:01pm

Nothing like free media attention, courtesy of the islamists. This can only be a plus for McCain with his constituents.

312 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:16:16pm

Look, there have been huge leaps in logic here. People need to realize something:


Just because someone believes in a religion doesn't mean that they believe EVERY word and follow EVERY rule in their religion's texts. Not all Christians are dumb enough to believe the Earth is less than 6000 years old. Not all muslims are dumb enough to think that all women should be covered all the time.


There is no real definition of a Christian.... my guess would be anyone who believes that Jesus existed and that he was the son of God. There is no real definition of a Muslim... my guess would be anyone who believes that Muhammed existed and that he spoke to God.


To think that all muslims believe in sharia, or that the only interpretation of the religion is sharia is.... naive and bigoted, to say the least.

313 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:16:17pm

re: #302 Jwaksman

Jwaksman, put down the key board and slowly back away from the mouse. You're becoming insulting and that leads to a bad end. Be civil and argue honestly.

314 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:16:24pm

re: #305 bikermailman

mohammed founded islam for his own personal acquisition of power- imo, that makes it first and foremost a political movement.

315 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:16:26pm

re: #255 MandyManners

Lanaty, the Bible does not teach either of the things you claim. You are a fool for believing it does. People got that take because the Bible says that the whole world will see Jesus return. what FOOLS fail to see is that God prophesied CNN and the News we have today where one can see events AS they happen.

Are you still fool enough to believe you are a mere accident? so there would be nothing wrong with killing you if you are a cosmic anomality and nothing more. why bother with law then? law is then just rule of the strongest, and nothing more.

316 Arbalest  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:16:30pm

Excerpted from #121 jwaksman
“ Saying that a muslim can't be president because there has been so much death and violence and ignorance in the middle east is like saying that no christian can be president because Christians led the Crusades, Nazi Germany, WWI and WWII.”

No. Your statement is illogical. The Nazis were rather un-Christian (more some sort of invented paganism), the Crusades were a belated response (about 500 years) to Muslim aggression, WWI & WWII were not wars of religion, nor were they particularly religiously motivated (unlike Muslim conquests of Persia, North Africa, India, Byzantium, and incursions into Europe).


Excerpted from #138 jwaksman
“The Koran advocates violence. So does the Bible. Anybody dumb enough to try to make people follow either book to the "t" isn't going to get anywhere near the Presidency.”

There is a difference between the attitudes in the Bible and the Quran towards violence. The Bible (Old Testament) at least claims the Divine Authority of God, and at specific instances, as a reason for violence (specified punishments, war, etc). The Bible (New Testament) deals with violence, but much differently. Now read the Quran; violence is prescribed on a continuing basis.

Excerpted from #173 jwaksman
“A "believing Jesusdan" couldn't be President either. The Bible has a ton of crazy rules. Secular Christians simply don't follow them. Just like how secular muslims don't wear hijab or follow any of the crazy sharia rules.
These strawmen arguments of trying to compare any muslim politician to sharia law in Iran are insane. What a morally corrupt method of debate...”

We have a track record of many US Presidents (and Governors, Senators . . .) who were devout Christians.

We also have records of many devout Muslim rulers.

It may be that more blood was shed under Christian rule, but only because the Christians (the West) managed to develop modern technology.

It is important to remember that slavery (the subjugation, buying, selling, etc., of humans) was ended by the force of Western (Christian) arms. Yet even today, the more strict Muslims occasionally mention slavery as a legitimate institution, perhaps one to be reintroduced. There is evidence that it still exists in the Muslim parts Africa.

If we do some sort of prorating (time period, available technology, intent, target, resulting daily life of conquered peoples, etc,) the vast majority of Muslim rulers look blood thirsty; the Christians look very much less so.

Perhaps there is a profile here.

317 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:16:48pm

re: #308 Noam Sayin'

Thank you. I'd be honored for you to use, add, and spread it. Let me know you're additions and/ or edits. I would love to see them

318 rtheyserius  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:16:50pm

re: #190 Jwaksman

Islam is a religion. Christianity is a religion. Communism is a POLITICAL BELIEF.

I'll grant your point (for the sake of argument) re Communism -- except that Islam is really a political movement dressed in religion. But you didn't address Kali worshippers or Wiccans. Just checking... You'd be fine with one of those as president, right?

319 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:17:33pm

re: #303 Sharmuta

re: #299 Lanaty

Because "all religion is retarded"?

Insulting Jews is not the same as insulting Judaism. Judaism is just like the rest of them. Jews, however, are well-behaved. Many Muslims are not.

320 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:17:50pm

re: #302 Jwaksman

re: #285 jcm


My degree is in bio-chemistry, I work in electrical engineering. And I am dumb enough to believe in creationism. The probability of the of the human genome occurring, I did the math, is 24212 a statistical impossibility. Biological systems require the simultaneous evolution of DNA, and the enzymes to replicate DNA, but the enzyme is needed to replicate DNA and DNA is needed to make the enzyme. And that is just a start.

For someone to close their mind to possibilities is foolish.

The probability of the human genome being created out of... what? A random collection of random elements? Nobody ever claimed it was.


What school did you get your degree in? Bob Jones University? It's hard to imagine a creationist having the mental capacity to get into an accredited school.

The probability of the human genome being created out of... what?
Given an unlimited supply of base pairs.

What school did you get your degree in? Bob Jones University? It's hard to imagine a creationist having the mental capacity to get into an accredited school.
Compliment accepted.

321 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:17:54pm

re: #310 Charles

The straw men are flying fast and furious now.

It's only the first semester at Columbia. That's all they've learned.

322 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:18:02pm
323 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:18:26pm

re: #312 Jwaksman

To think that all muslims believe in sharia, or that the only interpretation of the religion is sharia is.... naive and bigoted, to say the least.

Straw man.

324 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:18:31pm

re: #306 Alberta Oil Peon


Kind of a smear on atheists, eh? There is absolutely no reason to link atheism with dishonesty. Honesty, and respect for private property rights are qualities that time and experience have proven to be necessary to maintain a civil society. One does not need to have one's ethics handed to him on stone tablets. If that works for you, fine, but I can apply my reason and logic to the record of human experience, and arrive at fundamentally the same set of rules.

Funny, ain't it? If the only thing that impels you to return a lost wallet to its rightful owner is fear of, or honor for a higher power, then I'd say I have a higher standard of morality than you. I'd return it because returning it is the right thing to do. Period.


EXACTLY. I don't need to think I hear God talking to me to know that it's moral to treat other people the way I want to be treated.

This idea of not questioning any morality because you assume that everything your religious leaders tell you as a child is correct is making the same mistake that so many muslims in the middle east make.

No religion is better than any other. What makes a person a good person is being a good person. Not the religion they're born into.

325 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:18:32pm

re: #312 Jwaksman

There is no real definition of a Christian.... my guess would be anyone who believes that Jesus existed and that he was the son of God. There is no real definition of a Muslim... my guess would be anyone who believes that Muhammed existed and that he spoke to God.

False on both issues.

326 Yankee Division Son  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:18:36pm

re: #269 JammieWearingFool

I agree. Textbook case of MTS. (malnourished troll syndrome)

327 stevieray  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:18:53pm

re: #286 Lanaty

re: #276 Ron Paul

They live in Pennsylvania. They're not at risk for being Murdered for converting in PENNSYLVANIA.

... for now.

328 George guy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:19:04pm

We can build a better straw man. We have the technology.

329 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:19:18pm

re: #310 Charles

I got straw man in my red herring. Ick!

330 tripletdad  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:19:37pm

#302:
Ad hominem means what, exactly? I think it's Latin, i'm not sure. Anyone?

331 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:19:38pm

re: #313 Perplexed


Jwaksman, put down the key board and slowly back away from the mouse. You're becoming insulting and that leads to a bad end. Be civil and argue honestly.

If you want to not make logical contradictions, attack the people launching these verbal assaults on me. They are far worse.


Of course, now I can look forward to being called a "whiner" again, even though in THIS case the whiner is "Perplexed."

332 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:19:46pm

re: #278 Jwaksman

re: #255 MandyManners


You are the dumbfuck here if you beileve that Christians believe that the Earth is flat and that the Sun revolves around the Earth.

Wait. Hang on. Some guy argues that all of science is wrong, and creationism is reality, then I parody him... and you're calling ME the idiot?

You're not a creationist also, are you? I can't believe that we still have creationists in the 21st century. Anybody who believes everything they read in a religious text in a nimwit. Be they muslim or any other religion.


I'm not an atheist, I'm an observant Jew. But I'm not stupid enough to think that there haven't been advancements in science in the last 3000 years.

I didn't call you an "idiot." I called you a "dumbfuck."

333 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:20:09pm

re: #328 George guy

We can build a better straw man. We have the technology.

Cleaning monitor now.

334 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:20:15pm

re: #296 Jwaksman

It's sad to see you make a fool of yourself. I let my last few posts to you stand as you really aren't sure how to address them I see. I was hoping that you'd come here to learn but something is telling me you aren't in that frame of mind in regards to LGF. I find it hard for someone to read LGF and come to some of the conclusions you have.

You have an opinion and lay it out here, be expected to be challenged. This isn't a kumbaya gathering. Some of your views are a bit on the *progressive liberal* cult side. It's hard for ANY cultists to wake up...it sorta took me about 5 yrs out of the liberal college cult setting to see what was going on in the real world.

335 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:20:17pm

re: #310 Charles

The straw men are flying fast and furious now.

I am trying to make sense of the thread having joined late.

Lots of projection going on. Seems that we have a refusal to hit the points of discussion. Far easier to smear lizardoidia with generalizations.

It is a form of bigotry.

336 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:20:25pm

re: #315 JeremyR

re: #255 MandyManners

Lanaty,
the Bible does not teach either of the things you claim. You are a fool
for believing it does. People got that take because the Bible says that
the whole world will see Jesus return. what FOOLS fail to see is that
God prophesied CNN and the News we have today where one can see events
AS they happen.

Are you still fool enough to believe you are a
mere accident? so there would be nothing wrong with killing you if you
are a cosmic anomality and nothing more. why bother with law then? law
is then just rule of the strongest, and nothing more.

Um, re-read the post you're quoting. I said nothing about the earth being flat or a geocentric view of the universe. That wasn't me.

Nice try, though.

337 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:20:27pm

re: #325 Perplexed

False on both issues.

Are you going to make an argument, or just call me "wrong"?

338 MJ  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:20:43pm

re: #249 lookingup

re: #249 lookingup

re: #111 MJ


re: #89 JeremyR

Do a little valid research on the founding fathers.

Bill of Rights
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

The first amendment prevents congress, it does not prohibit the states from supporting a religion. The founding fathers were not afraid of religion, indeed embraced it. The first house of representatives of Pennsylvania had to swear allegiance to the Constitution and that they were Christian. Have family docs to prove.

The last state to discriminate against Jews holding office was Maryland. Eventually, the State constitution was altered so that no religious test shall be required for a Jew to hold office ( 1826 ).

The qualifcations to be President are as follows. You'll note that the first qualification was written by the founding fathers and that it says nothing about being a Christian:

Qualifications for the Office of President

Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

Term limit amendment - US Constitution, Amendment XXII, Section 1 – ratified February 27, 1951

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

339 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:20:45pm

re: #299 Lanaty

Why would I insult Jews?

/just thought you might want to cover all the bases while you're bust making friends here at LGF

340 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:20:52pm

re: #330 tripletdad

Name calling more or less.

341 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:20:54pm

re: #319 Lanaty

I find that comment racist.

342 kiwiviv  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:21:23pm

re: #289 xenophobic

Don't be an a-hole to her. She knows more about the Koran than most muslims, and more about the Bible than most Christians. She has educated things to say, and nothing she has said warrants that type of sarcasm.


anybody who believes everything they read in a religious text in a nimwit. "

They're both downright idiotic books designed to control primitive people.re: #15 kiwiviv

Seems to me you two are the ones throwing around the insults?

You have used my name with someone else's quote - now I'm whining!

343 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:21:31pm

re: #330 tripletdad

#302:
Ad hominem means what, exactly? I think it's Latin, i'm not sure. Anyone?

Attack against the person, not on topic.

344 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:21:36pm

re: #332 MandyManners

I didn't call you an "idiot." I called you a "dumbfuck."


If this quote doesn't put all of the attacks on Lanaty and I in perspective.... I don't know what does, haha.

345 DerKrieger  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:21:37pm

I'd like to see a politician with the backbone to say that we won't accept additional immigrants from Muslim countries. Unfortunately political correctness has made it nearly impossible to speak openly and honestly about the negative impact of loose immigration and refugee (think Somalis) policies. We're headed for Balkanization.

Looks like a Polish filmmaker will be making a movie about the Battle of Vienna in which the Polish hero Jan Sobieski helped repulse the Ottomans and saved Western Europe from Islamization, again. He's trying to get Mel Gibson to play Sobieski. Publisher's note in English.

346 George guy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:21:44pm

re: #324 Jwaksman

No religion is better than any other. What makes a person a good person is being a good person. Not the religion they're born into.

And what determines that person's definition of 'good'?

347 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:21:49pm

re: #222 Jwaksman

re: #207 Charles


#189 Lanaty

The issue at hand here was whether or not JWaksman and I had actually READ the Koran and the Bible. I talked about the class to show that yes, actually, we have. They're both downright idiotic books designed to control primitive people. Of course, this offends the 40-something men who think that a guy who was nailed to two planks of wood is any more credible than some swarthy arab in the desert who wanted three wives.

Two whole semesters! I'm impressed.

Don't be an a-hole to her. She knows more about the Koran than most muslims, and more about the Bible than most Christians. She has educated things to say, and nothing she has said warrants that type of sarcasm.

I'm having a similar reaction to the one I had yesterday listening to a (reran) debate between Micheal Medved and Christopher Hitchens when Hitch's latest book first came out a few months ago. I'm glad that Hitch is (mostly) on our side, but on the subject of religion, he's an arrogant SOB. That is the issue here, largely. Not the debate, but the sheer arrogance, especially for two people who have had a few credits taught by university professors with an agenda. Especially toward people who have spent years studying the matter. It's not the debate, it's the arrogance that's the problem for me, at least. Can't speak for the other Lizards.

348 itellu3times  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:21:53pm

re: #285 jcm

My degree is in bio-chemistry, I work in electrical engineering. And I am dumb enough to believe in creationism. The probability of the of the human genome occurring, I did the math, is 24212 a statistical impossibility.

Well, no. I mean, pour a nice hot cup of tea. The odds of that particular molecular pattern occurring are also astronomical, and yet there it is. And the tea doesn't have the benefit of being a self-replicating system.

Biological systems require the simultaneous evolution of DNA, and the enzymes to replicate DNA, but the enzyme is needed to replicate DNA and DNA is needed to make the enzyme. And that is just a start.

Again, no. The prevailing opinion is that we started with something like an RNA-world, and the DNA-world developed stepwise over a few million or billion years. Then there's theories like panspermia, and there's Cairns-Smith, and stuff.

It's a hard problem. Very hard. I'm not at all certain where I stand on it, but bad arguments abound on both sides, and I try not to go with those.

349 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:22:13pm

re: #312 Jwaksman

Look, there have been huge leaps in logic here. People need to realize something:


Just because someone believes in a religion doesn't mean that they believe EVERY word and follow EVERY rule in their religion's texts. Not all Christians are dumb enough to believe the Earth is less than 6000 years old. Not all muslims are dumb enough to think that all women should be covered all the time.


There is no real definition of a Christian.... my guess would be anyone who believes that Jesus existed and that he was the son of God. There is no real definition of a Muslim... my guess would be anyone who believes that Muhammed existed and that he spoke to God.


To think that all muslims believe in sharia, or that the only interpretation of the religion is sharia is.... naive and bigoted, to say the least.

Again, you are the only one saying that. Nobody here has said there aren't moderate muslims.

350 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:22:27pm

“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.” “The Existence of God--1810” - Thomas Paine

351 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:23:02pm

re: #302 Jwaksman

MY YOU HAVE A VERY small mind.
You can't understand that Christians can be intelligent? MY father had a PHD, and it wasn't from Bob Jones, and he was a Christian. Newton was a Christian. Was he an idiot as well?

352 xenophobic  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:23:08pm

#342 kiwiviv
I apologize, my O/S puts anything highlighted in the clipboard and I must have 'middle-clicked' when I pressed quote -- sorry!

353 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:23:08pm

re: #331 Jwaksman


If you want to not make logical contradictions, attack the people launching these verbal assaults on me. They are far worse.

Of course, now I can look forward to being called a "whiner" again, even though in THIS case the whiner is "Perplexed."

/are you going to cry now?

354 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:23:28pm

re: #337 Jwaksman

Too late to dig up references that would satisfy your obviously superior intellect. Suggest you do some looking to see what it takes to become either a Christian or muslim.

355 DEZes  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:23:29pm

re: #302 Jwaksman

re: #285 jcm


My degree is in bio-chemistry, I work in electrical engineering. And I am dumb enough to believe in creationism. The probability of the of the human genome occurring, I did the math, is 24212 a statistical impossibility. Biological systems require the simultaneous evolution of DNA, and the enzymes to replicate DNA, but the enzyme is needed to replicate DNA and DNA is needed to make the enzyme. And that is just a start.

For someone to close their mind to possibilities is foolish.


The probability of the human genome being created out of... what? A random collection of random elements? Nobody ever claimed it was.


What school did you get your degree in? Bob Jones University? It's hard to imagine a creationist having the mental capacity to get into an accredited school.


You really are condescending and intolerant.
Now this persons degree is not accredited by you, So its not good enough.

356 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:23:32pm

re: #334 Highrise

re: #296 Jwaksman

It's sad to see you make a fool of yourself. I let my last few posts to you stand as you really aren't sure how to address them I see. I was hoping that you'd come here to learn but something is telling me you aren't in that frame of mind in regards to LGF. I find it hard for someone to read LGF and come to some of the conclusions you have.

You have an opinion and lay it out here, be expected to be challenged. This isn't a kumbaya gathering. Some of your views are a bit on the *progressive liberal* cult side. It's hard for ANY cultists to wake up...it sorta took me about 5 yrs out of the liberal college cult setting to see what was going on in the real world.


It's sad to see you make a fool of yourself. I let my last few posts to you stand as you really aren't sure how to address them I see. I was hoping that you'd come her to learn but something is telling me you aren't in that frame of mind in regards to LGF. I find it hard for someone to read LGF and come to some of the conclusions you have.

If you want to have a debate, let's debate. But there isn't anything much more immature than two paragraphs of rambling personal attacks without a shread of any actual intelligent debate to be found.

357 itellu3times  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:23:50pm

re: #330 tripletdad

Ad hominem means what, exactly? I think it's Latin, i'm not sure. Anyone?

Against the person, rather than his argument.

358 abolitionist  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:23:52pm

re: #121 Jwaksman

This is an extremely naive point of view. Do you really not understand that al qaeda, Hezbollah and Hamas are not the ones representing the muslim faith correctly? They are terrorists. Most muslims in the United States live NORMAL lives. ...

You are wrong. Mohammad boasted I have been made victorious with terror.

I refer you to Ali Sina - A Letter to Mankind

I believe he wrote it right after the Beslan Massacre.

359 lookingup  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:23:58pm

re: #338 MJ

re: #249 lookingup

re: #249 lookingup


re: #111 MJ

re: #89 JeremyR

Do a little valid research on the founding fathers.

Bill of Rights
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

The first amendment prevents congress, it does not prohibit the states from supporting a religion. The founding fathers were not afraid of religion, indeed embraced it. The first house of representatives of Pennsylvania had to swear allegiance to the Constitution and that they were Christian. Have family docs to prove.

The last state to discriminate against Jews holding office was Maryland. Eventually, the State constitution was altered so that no religious test shall be required for a Jew to hold office ( 1826 ).

The qualifcations to be President are as follows. You'll note that the first qualification was written by the founding fathers and that it says nothing about being a Christian:

Qualifications for the Office of President

Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

Term limit amendment - US Constitution, Amendment XXII, Section 1 – ratified February 27, 1951

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

The point of my post was it WAS a Christian country. Not perfect but Christian.

360 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:24:16pm

This is apparently how kids are taught to argue their points these days--by whining like babies when they're challenged, and personally attacking the challengers. It's really a shame.

361 hous bin pharteen  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:24:16pm

I would jump in here, but considering you guys are arguing with two college kids, and me knowing the average common sense level of college kids, and how much they end up thinking they know about things they know very little about, I don't see the point.

362 Spiny Norman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:24:36pm

re: #329 Killgore Trout

re: #310 Charles

I got straw man in my red herring. Ick!

Waiter! There's a straw man AND a red herring in my non sequitur!

363 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:24:45pm

Killgore, are you running a check over at Kos for a couple nicks about now?

364 Le_Patriot  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:24:53pm

re: #350 Kreuzueber Halbmond

“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.” “The Existence of God--1810” - Thomas Paine

____________
1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that
come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him,
and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually
discerned.

365 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:25:14pm

re: #349 Thanos

Again, you are the only one saying that. Nobody here has said there aren't moderate muslims.


Really? I suggest you read a few of the posts flying around here. I'm getting all of these attacks launched at me for daring to suggest (egads!) that it's possible that a person born into a muslim home could become intelligent and qualified enough to become President of the United States. What I've learned tonight is that apparently all muslims believe in sharia law - I guess the muslims that I know personally (almost all of whom abhor sharia law) are lying about being muslims.

366 Lively  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:25:16pm

19 seconds left in the Florida game.

/bites nails

367 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:25:22pm

re: #324 Jwaksman


No religion is better than any other.

wow, just wow.

Jim Jones, Heaven's Gate, Charles Manson, David Koresh...etc.

368 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:25:26pm

re: #347 bikermailman

You are really kidding yourself if you think that a Professor's view on the world created mine. You are also kidding yourself if you think the Professor lectured to us about how wrong all religions are. I have felt this way about religion since I dropped Islam...in late childhood. I do believe in God. I just don't think he spoke to anybody about writing stuff down.

369 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:25:54pm

I'd like to see proof that creation cannot have occurred.

I am a borderline agnostic / atheist. But I don't accept the dismissive "argument" that creationism is a fallacy and therefore cannot be supported, and that any assertion in support of creationism is therefore a fallacy.

Begging the question.

Those who dismiss creationism in whole should be prepared to prove their assertion rather than rely on the assertion as self supporting.

370 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:26:02pm

re: #360 Charles

This is apparently how kids are taught to argue their points these days--by whining like babies when they're challenged, and personally attacking the challengers. It's really a shame.

I called it!


Try not to be so predictable, Charles. Really.

371 rightwinger3  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:26:05pm

What am I missing here? I always show up late. Have they thrown out the "You're all bigots" yet?

372 itellu3times  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:26:53pm

re: #361 hous bin pharteen

I would jump in here, but considering you guys are arguing with two college kids, and me knowing the average common sense level of college kids, and how much they end up thinking they know about things they know very little about, I don't see the point.

Rhetorical calisthenics for both sides.

Education is often painful.

373 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:27:17pm

re: #370 Jwaksman

More hypocrisy, I see.

374 Lively  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:27:19pm

3 seconds left. Florida timeout.

375 kiwiviv  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:27:31pm

re: #352 xenophobic

#342 kiwiviv
I apologize, my O/S puts anything highlighted in the clipboard and I must have 'middle-clicked' when I pressed quote -- sorry!

Whew! Thanks - I didn't want to whine any longer - it is so tedious. One can only hope that some others would be able to turn off the whining that easily!

376 NY Nana  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:27:45pm

re: #72 Lanaty

FOAD.

377 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:27:51pm

re: #369 karmic_inquisitor

I'd like to see proof that creation cannot have occurred.

I am
a borderline agnostic / atheist. But I don't accept the dismissive
"argument" that creationism is a fallacy and therefore cannot be
supported, and that any assertion in support of creationism is
therefore a fallacy.

Begging the question.

Those who
dismiss creationism in whole should be prepared to prove their
assertion rather than rely on the assertion as self supporting.

Ever heard of the COBE Mission? Outstanding evidence to support the Big Bang Theory.

378 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:27:52pm

re: #371 rightwinger3

What am I missing here? I always show up late. Have they thrown out the "You're all bigots" yet?

See #48.

379 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:27:54pm

re: #371 rightwinger3

Yes.

380 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:27:55pm

re: #367 Highrise

re: #324 Jwaksman


No religion is better than any other.

wow, just wow.

Jim Jones, Heaven's Gate, Charles Manson, David Koresh...etc.


Wow, just wow. I assume you believe that certain races are better than others? Whites are superior to blacks? Or maybe just superior to asians?

Don't judge people by their skin color, their creed or religion. Judge people by how they live their lives. People who choose to join Charles Manson are obviously idiots. People who choose to believe that Jesus existed, or that Muhammed existed, are NOT necessarily idiots. Just people by the color of their character.

381 rtheyserius  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:27:56pm

re: #284 Charles

(That's coming from someone who just called me an "asshole" for challenging his opinions.)

If you're referring to this:

Don't be an a-hole to her.

Actually, he was giving you orders and calling you an a-hole.

382 Spiny Norman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:27:58pm

re: #371 rightwinger3

What am I missing here? I always show up late. Have they thrown out the "You're all bigots" yet?

Stick around. It's still early.

:^þ

383 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:28:39pm

re: #364 Le_Patriot

Yep.

384 Lively  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:28:56pm

Ack! Florida just lost. Speaking of religion.....it's gonna be a bad day at church tomorrow.

/too many FL fans at our church

385 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:29:19pm

Jwakscum has yet to lay out a coherent argument, and continues to insult most people who reply, and all religion. What's the argument ?

I suspect you are operating under the assumption that we are all religious hate-sheeple here from what I've seen so far, and you continue to try to stuff your straw into our mouths.

If you've got an argument spit it out in simple terms and we can discuss.

386 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:29:29pm

re: #371 rightwinger3

What am I missing here? I always show up late. Have they thrown out the "You're all bigots" yet?


You've missed quite a bit of whining. Charles has been so shell-shocked at the good arguments that Lanaty and I have been making that all he can do is try to make fun of what college he thinks we go/went to, and calling us whiners.

387 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:29:49pm

re: #356 Jwaksman

No way can a debate happen when someone sits there and is adamant that the bible is just as bad as the koran, that all religions are created equal, that the books they derive their value system on aren't something that can be worried about (especially one that calls for my death), that I'm an idiot if I believe in creationism, that the Constitution of the United States says I can not discern my voting record between religions....etc.

Oh and btw, since you are into throwing it around that we must take science classes because we are stupid if we believe in creationism, I graduated with top honors with my BSEE..so please don't lecture me like you have others in here that we need to have a come to science moment.

/rolls eyes

388 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:29:54pm

re: #380 Jwaksman

Wow, just wow. I assume you believe that certain races are better than others? Whites are superior to blacks? Or maybe just superior to asians?

Straw man.

389 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:29:56pm

re: #369 karmic_inquisitor

I'd like to see proof that creation cannot have occurred.

I am a borderline agnostic / atheist. But I don't accept the
dismissive "argument" that creationism is a fallacy and therefore
cannot be supported, and that any assertion in support of creationism
is therefore a fallacy.

Begging the question.

Those who dismiss creationism in whole should be prepared to prove
their assertion rather than rely on the assertion as self supporting.

Logical Fallacy. You cannot prove that God did not create the Universe, just as you cannot prove that a Meatball did not create the Universe. That's actually the PROBLEM with Creationism. You can't prove it happened, and you can't prove that it didn't happen.

You CAN, however, find evidence in support of the Big Bang Theory (e.g. The COBE Mission).

390 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:30:15pm

re: #365 Jwaksman

re: #349 Thanos


Again, you are the only one saying that. Nobody here has said there aren't moderate muslims.

Really? I suggest you read a few of the posts flying around here. I'm getting all of these attacks launched at me for daring to suggest (egads!) that it's possible that a person born into a muslim home could become intelligent and qualified enough to become President of the United States. What I've learned tonight is that apparently all muslims believe in sharia law - I guess the muslims that I know personally (almost all of whom abhor sharia law) are lying about being muslims.

And we've pointed out that it's a strawman, so what's your real point?

391 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:30:18pm

re: #386 Jwaksman

Wow.

392 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:30:18pm

re: #385 Thanos

Jwakscum has yet to lay out a coherent argument, and continues to insult most people who reply, and all religion. What's the argument ?

I suspect you are operating under the assumption that we are all religious hate-sheeple here from what I've seen so far, and you continue to try to stuff your straw into our mouths.

If you've got an argument spit it out in simple terms and we can discuss.


Wow. Way to be an asshole. I won't even respond to that garbage, other than to quote it so other people can see what a jerk you are.

393 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:30:43pm

re: #336 Lanaty

My apologies. I am not used to reading how these align. I should have addressed it to Jwaksman and not you.

394 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:30:48pm

Ya know, I was checking the LGF Dictionary site earlier and followed the link to the Mr. Holland's Opus thread and while reading it was lamenting that LGF just didn't have that kind of fun anymore.

Now this.

I'd say it's karma, but that would be retarded.

395 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:30:53pm

re: #377 Lanaty

Quite familiar with COBE and the Big Bang along with Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, event horizons and a whole host of physics.

How does the Big Bang preclude the existence of a creator?

396 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:30:59pm

re: #380 Jwaksman

Way to move those goalposts!

/first and 45

397 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:30:59pm

re: #386 Jwaksman

You've missed quite a bit of whining. Charles has been so shell-shocked at the good arguments that Lanaty and I have been making that all he can do is try to make fun of what college he thinks we go/went to, and calling us whiners.

Sorry, but you're only a legend in your own mind.

398 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:31:01pm

re: #386 Jwaksman

You've missed quite a bit of whining. Charles has been so shell-shocked at the good arguments that Lanaty and I have been making that all he can do is try to make fun of what college he thinks we go/went to, and calling us whiners.

LOL!

Charles, please let them continue for a while. This is fun!

399 MJ  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:31:13pm

Gosh, hate to leave but have to pick my daughter up from the Homecoming dance.
Thanks for an interesting thread!

400 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:31:13pm

re: #388 Charles

Straw man.

Wait a second... so it's NOT a straw man to counter an argument that people of all religions can be rational by bringing up Charles Manson? I just want to get your definition of "straw man". Thanks.

401 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:31:30pm

re: #386 Jwaksman

So you're not at columbia u? Are you in Germany, by chance?

402 ChildOfMary  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:31:35pm

re: #312 Jwaksman

To think that all muslims believe in sharia, or that the only interpretation of the religion is sharia is.... naive and bigoted, to say the least.

One can, however, make a compelling case for the argument that if you take sharia out of Islam you have --- something that is no longer Islam.

You might also benefit by reading Spencer's "Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't" -- currently available in many bookstores near you.

403 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:31:37pm

re: #344 Jwaksman

re: #332 MandyManners


I didn't call you an "idiot." I called you a "dumbfuck."

If this quote doesn't put all of the attacks on Lanaty and I in perspective.... I don't know what does, haha.

You used "I" as an object of a preposition?!

(Jane, you ignorant slut.)

404 rtheyserius  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:31:38pm

re: #324 Jwaksman

No religion is better than any other. What makes a person a good person is being a good person. Not the religion they're born into.

Infants may be born into a religion. Adults choose, and take responsibility for their own choices.

405 lookingup  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:31:44pm

re: #384 Lively

Ack! Florida just lost. Speaking of religion.....it's gonna be a bad day at church tomorrow.

/too many FL fans at our church

How many times do i have to say, G-d doesn't care about football.!;)

406 xenophobic  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:31:57pm

"You CAN, however, find evidence in support of the Big Bang Theory "
You be edjumicated can you tell me wat 'Theory' means?

407 rightwinger3  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:32:01pm

re: #378 Charles

re: #371 rightwinger3

What am I missing here? I always show up late. Have they thrown out the "You're all bigots" yet?

See #48.

Holy crap that's a little early in the thread isn't it. I love it.

408 Lively  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:32:02pm

re: #394 Geepers

Ya know, I was checking the LGF Dictionary site earlier and followed the link to the Mr. Holland's Opus thread and while reading it was lamenting that LGF just didn't have that kind of fun anymore.

Now this.

I'd say it's karma, but that would be retarded.

You're right. I'd rather talk about the movie than the FL/Auburn game.

409 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:32:04pm

re: #392 Jwaksman

re: #385 Thanos


Jwakscum has yet to lay out a coherent argument, and continues to insult most people who reply, and all religion. What's the argument ?

I suspect you are operating under the assumption that we are all religious hate-sheeple here from what I've seen so far, and you continue to try to stuff your straw into our mouths.

If you've got an argument spit it out in simple terms and we can discuss.


Wow. Way to be an asshole. I won't even respond to that garbage, other than to quote it so other people can see what a jerk you are.


Here, let me quote it again. Now do you have an argument or point or not?

410 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:32:06pm

re: #394 Geepers

I'd say it's karma, but that would be retarded.

LMAO!

411 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:32:22pm

Hell with it, I'll say it. Christians shed blood to preserve freedom. Muslims shed blood to deny freedom.

412 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:32:50pm

re: #363 Noam Sayin'

Naw, I'm drinkin' and listening to Bollywood.

413 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:33:13pm

re: #411 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Hell with it, I'll say it. Christians shed blood to preserve freedom. Muslims shed blood to deny freedom.

This was not true during the Crusades, but it is true today.

414 Lively  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:33:18pm

re: #405 lookingup

re: #384 Lively


Ack! Florida just lost. Speaking of religion.....it's gonna be a bad day at church tomorrow.

/too many FL fans at our church


How many times do i have to say, G-d doesn't care about football.!;)

On nights like this, I would have to agree.

415 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:33:24pm

re: #369 karmic_inquisitor

I'd like to see proof that creation cannot have occurred.

I am a borderline agnostic / atheist. But I don't accept the dismissive "argument" that creationism is a fallacy and therefore cannot be supported, and that any assertion in support of creationism is therefore a fallacy.

Begging the question.

Those who dismiss creationism in whole should be prepared to prove their assertion rather than rely on the assertion as self supporting.

The problem arise in that religious belief is metaphysical, proof as you request is a matter of physical world. The question will not be settled once and for all with a scientific discovery.

The "proof" lies with each one of individually coming to terms with the metaphysical questions:
What is my source.
What is my purpose.
What is my destiny.

That is an individual journey. The great religions, or a purely solitary pursuit, offer different paths and answers to the questions.

416 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:33:31pm

re: #380 Jwaksman

Wow, just wow. I assume you believe that certain races are better than others? Whites are superior to blacks? Or maybe just superior to asians?

None of those cults I listed above had a thing to do with race. Nice try turning this into a race issue though. Islam is NOT a race.

Don't judge people by their skin color, their creed or religion. Judge people by how they live their lives. People who choose to join Charles Manson are obviously idiots. People who choose to believe that Jesus existed, or that Muhammed existed, are NOT necessarily idiots. Just people by the color of their character.

I'm sure not everyone who was under Manson were terrible people, using your logic. What is your hangup with trying to turn this into a race issue? You say not to judge people by their religion, you have greatly judged all people who believe in creationism because they do not believe in your science theory.

Again, I'm waiting for the passage in our Constitution that tells me SPECIFICALLY that I'm not to elect an official based on his cult beliefs/following.

417 experiencedtraveller  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:33:38pm

ARE YOU PAYING GOOD MONEY FOR THESE IDIOT TROLLS?

HIGHER QUALITY TROLLS PLEASE.

418 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:33:44pm

re: #380 Jwaksman

Yoou are confusing race with religion.

Religion is not confined by race. It is ultimately a choice and a system of belief.

One can attack another's beliefs without being a bigot or racist.

Not all beliefs are equal unless you subscribe to the Rorty-esque idea that philosophy is dead because no truths exist.

419 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:33:52pm

re: #412 Killgore Trout

re: #363 Noam Sayin'

Naw, I'm drinkin' and listening to Bollywood.


That's what I forgot trying to keep up, time to refill the glass.

420 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:34:04pm

re: #380 Jwaksman

You truely are foolish. How you equate something that you have NO say in (being born a particular race) to something that you have TOTAL choice in( your beleife system, or lack thereof), THEN, extrapolating that into "well, if you think ABC RELIGION is better than XYZ, then you MUST think whites are better than blacks"

I weep for the future of my once great country!

421 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:34:13pm

re: #360 Charles

This is apparently how kids are taught to argue their points these days--by whining like babies when they're challenged, and personally attacking the challengers. It's really a shame.

I would plead guilty but, I'm not arguing. I'm just poking these twits with a stick.

422 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:34:20pm

re: #386 Jwaksman

re: #371 rightwinger3

What am I missing here? I always show up late. Have they thrown out the "You're all bigots" yet?


You've missed quite a bit of whining. Charles has been so shell-shocked at the good arguments that Lanaty and I have been making that all he can do is try to make fun of what college he thinks we go/went to, and calling us whiners.

Dude. You really need to step back and read through the thread - maybe tomorrow morning when you've had a chance to regain your sommon sense. Nearly nothing you or Lanaty has said tonight could be considered a good argument. This was made most evident by Charles posting and reposting

Straw man.

423 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:34:25pm

re: #413 Lanaty

Nice try. Whose freedoms were Crusaders denying?

424 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:34:29pm

re: #406 xenophobic

"You CAN, however, find evidence in support of the Big Bang Theory "
You be edjumicated can you tell me wat 'Theory' means?

Typical non-scientist remark. "Theory" as a colloquial term does not mean the same as "Theory" in the scientific sense. Gravity is also a THEORY. Understood?

425 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:34:48pm

re: #293 hous bin pharteen

re: #281 bikermailman

DAmn.
I missed that one as well.

Gotta be quick to keep up with this bunch.... ;)

426 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:34:56pm

re: #417 experiencedtraveller

ARE YOU PAYING GOOD MONEY FOR THESE IDIOT TROLLS?

HIGHER QUALITY TROLLS PLEASE.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA .

427 NY Nana  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:34:57pm

re: #263 Geepers

This is what passes as an edumacation...

And yes, my oldest did go to Columbia Grad School...but he is now almost 44 years old. I do not remember the rampant L3 crap, but then his MSc is in historic preservation.

428 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:35:15pm

re: #400 Jwaksman

re: #388 Charles


Straw man.

Wait a second... so it's NOT a straw man to counter an argument that people of all religions can be rational by bringing up Charles Manson? I just want to get your definition of "straw man". Thanks.

haha are you kidding me?

You said all religions are equal. And that the bible is no better than the koran.

It is valid then to bring up other cults that aren't very nice. Islam, is such a cult that isn't nice..it's koran asks for me to convert or die and leaves no wiggle room.

429 itellu3times  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:35:29pm

re: #385 Thanos

Jwakscum has yet to lay out a coherent argument, and continues to insult most people who reply, and all religion. What's the argument ?

He has a coherent argument that all religion is bad and people should be judged as individuals - presumably only on such a basis as could be defended in a court of law.

Shrug. This makes him about a middle-of-the-road democrat, or possibly a libertarian-style independent, if we wanted to look for comparisons to reference groups - which he would never do.

430 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:35:33pm

re: #423 Sharmuta

re: #413 Lanaty

Nice try. Whose freedoms were Crusaders denying?

UM, how about the freedom for non-Christians TO BE NON-CHRISTIANS?

Nicely done!

431 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:35:44pm
432 Syrah  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:36:07pm

re: #330 tripletdad

For both the curious and the courageous, here is a short explanation of various logical fallacies.

These are dangerous.

He who lives by the logical fallacy, dies by the logical fallacy.

433 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:36:11pm

re: #421 MandyManners

Ah yes, poke them to see their impotent rage. You'll have them in long term therapy if you keep it up for very long.

434 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:36:14pm

Come on Charles, are you afraid to offend some of your more regular posters? Is it not a straw man argument to bring up Charles Manson when I say that people of all religions have the capability of being reasonable people?


If you continue to refuse to answer, your silence will speak volumes (to paraphrase Lee Bollinger).

435 lookingup  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:36:19pm

re: #413 Lanaty

re: #411 Kreuzueber Halbmond


Hell with it, I'll say it. Christians shed blood to preserve freedom. Muslims shed blood to deny freedom.

This was not true during the Crusades, but it is true today.


WW2 was not for our gain. Korea was not for our gain. Iraq is not for our gain. In each our lives were taken so that others may have democracy and freedom. My goodness what have you been taught.

436 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:36:27pm

re: #424 Lanaty

re: #406 xenophobic


"You CAN, however, find evidence in support of the Big Bang Theory "
You be edjumicated can you tell me wat 'Theory' means?

Typical non-scientist remark. "Theory" as a colloquial term does not mean the same as "Theory" in the scientific sense. Gravity is also a THEORY. Understood?


No silly, gravity is a property of mass. Gravitation is the theory.

437 rightwinger3  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:36:38pm

Charles,

Yes let them continue.

Bigots #48...Racists #380 (maybe earlier, I can't keep up.)

438 DEZes  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:37:24pm

re: #392 Jwaksman

re: #385 Thanos


Jwakscum has yet to lay out a coherent argument, and continues to insult most people who reply, and all religion. What's the argument ?

I suspect you are operating under the assumption that we are all religious hate-sheeple here from what I've seen so far, and you continue to try to stuff your straw into our mouths.

If you've got an argument spit it out in simple terms and we can discuss.


Wow. Way to be an asshole. I won't even respond to that garbage, other than to quote it so other people can see what a jerk you are.

Wanna see a belligerent asshole, look in the mirror

439 NY Nana  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:37:34pm

re: #303 Sharmuta

I would not even bother to re-post what I have said on the use of that word..it would not even begin to comprehend what is so repugnant.

440 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:37:42pm

re: #434 Jwaksman

Come on Charles, are you afraid to offend some of your more regular posters? Is it not a straw man argument to bring up Charles Manson when I say that people of all religions have the capability of being reasonable people?


If you continue to refuse to answer, your silence will speak volumes (to paraphrase Lee Bollinger).

So basically GIVE ME ATTENTION OR I'M GONNA TOSS A FIT.

How manipulative. Grow up.

441 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:38:03pm

re: #435 lookingup

re: #413 Lanaty

re: #411 Kreuzueber Halbmond


Hell with it, I'll say it. Christians shed blood to preserve freedom. Muslims shed blood to deny freedom.


This was not true during the Crusades, but it is true today.


WW2
was not for our gain. Korea was not for our gain. Iraq is not for our
gain. In each our lives were taken so that others may have democracy
and freedom. My goodness what have you been taught.

The Crusades were WW2, The Korean War, and the Iraq War?

My goodness, what have you been taught?

442 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:38:07pm

re: #430 Lanaty

Pathetic.

443 xenophobic  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:38:14pm

re: #413 Lanaty
This was not true during the Crusades, but it is true today.

Charles Martel
He is best remembered for winning the Battle of Tours in 732, which has traditionally been characterized as an event that saved Europe from the Islamic expansionism that had conquered Iberia.

First Crusade 1096–1099

Wait, which aggression came first?

444 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:38:29pm

re: #432 Syrah


For both the curious and the courageous, here is a short explanation of various logical fallacies.

These are dangerous.

He who lives by the logical fallacy, dies by the logical fallacy.


Yep, that pretty much covers a lot of the nonsense here tonight. A lot of people would do a lot for their own education by reading through these logical fallacies.

445 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:38:30pm

Jwaksman says:

You've missed quite a bit of whining. Charles has been so shell-shocked at the good arguments that Lanaty and I have been making that all he can do is try to make fun of what college he thinks we go/went to, and calling us whiners.

Oh that's classic.

There exists the possibility that Charles is "shell-shocked" for an entirely different reason.

446 Spiny Norman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:38:43pm

Anyone keeping track of the logical fallacies on this thread?

I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm just marvelling at the Fark Flame War that magically appeared and plopped itself down here...

re: #394 Geepers

Ya know, I was checking the LGF Dictionary site earlier and followed the link to the Mr. Holland's Opus thread and while reading it was lamenting that LGF just didn't have that kind of fun anymore.

Now this.

I'd say it's karma, but that would be retarded.

LMAO!

Mr Holland's Opus... ::sigh::

447 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:39:04pm

re: #434 Jwaksman

Just pathetic. But please do continue.

448 Syrah  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:39:14pm

re: #444 Jwaksman

You should be among the first.

449 NY Nana  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:39:28pm

re: #434 Jwaksman

If you continue to refuse to answer, your silence will speak volumes (to paraphrase Lee Bollinger).

What a POS you are.

450 lookingup  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:39:30pm

re: #441 Lanaty

re: #435 lookingup


re: #413 Lanaty

re: #411 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Hell with it, I'll say it. Christians shed blood to preserve freedom. Muslims shed blood to deny freedom.

This was not true during the Crusades, but it is true today.

WW2
was not for our gain. Korea was not for our gain. Iraq is not for our
gain. In each our lives were taken so that others may have democracy
and freedom. My goodness what have you been taught.

The Crusades were WW2, The Korean War, and the Iraq War?

My goodness, what have you been taught?

?

451 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:39:32pm

re: #296 Jwaksman

re: #267 Highrise


Their koran commands that I die. Do you have a crystal ball that tells me which one will follow their koran on whatever path towards this? If I had that, it would make this much easier for me. I know what their koran calls for and it isn't something that I wish to put into a voting or decision making job for my welfare or my kid's.


I think you just made my point. Their koran shows me that they have potential for bad character and morality as their evil seed koran is not compatible with the West in terms of leading and giving freedom to people and living strictly by it among us. Who is to say that people who are into the cults I listed above (which you chose just manson) weren't good people and could have led if you follow your logic about islamists?



Some Christians believed that the Bible said we should launch Crusades. Others said the Bible said we should kill all the Jews. Do YOU have a crystal ball that allows me to know which Christians will follow those interpretations of the Bible? According to your (il)logic, without that crystal ball we can't elect any Christians president.

And as for your second paragraph, you proved your inability to comprehend the concept of "religion." Do you know why most muslims become muslims? It's not because they like terrorism. It's not because they're bad people. It's because their parents were muslim and believe Muhammed was a prophet.

You're absolutely right. Some Christians believed the Bible told them to. With some truly stunning theological gymnastics, with a twist. The Koran, on the other hand, it says it. Black and white. You're so educated, you would know that. By the way, if you were so educated, you would also know that the Crusades were also launched for the purpose of taking back territories that the muslims had stolen with the crusades of their own, that they started, a couple of hundred years earlier.

452 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:39:35pm

re: #436 Thanos


No silly, gravity is a property of mass. Gravitation is the theory.


No silly, it is a theory that gravity is a "property" of mass.

453 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:40:08pm

re: #446 Spiny Norman

Anyone keeping track of the logical fallacies on this thread?

I think we've pretty much covered the waterfront.

454 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:41:12pm

re: #452 Jwaksman

Boy- you just know everything, don't you?

455 rtheyserius  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:41:25pm

Jwaksman, I realize you are fielding a lot of responses. If you're still here, I'm really interested in your answer to: #318 rtheyserius

456 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:41:30pm

re: #400 Jwaksman

re: #388 Charles

Straw man.

Wait a second... so it's NOT a straw man to counter an argument that people of all religions can be rational by bringing up Charles Manson? I just want to get your definition of "straw man". Thanks.

Just a second - did you just assert that " people of all religions can be rational?"

What?

A) Religion is ultimately not rational. You can look up Kierkegarrd on that one - "Leap of faith."

B) Rationality (founded in the reduction to ratio) is a very Western idea. Look up Paul de Mann and Jacques Derrida on that. The whole idea of "logocity" points to the intrinsic western bias in the idea of rationality. By asserting that "people of all religions can be rational" is asserting that "people of all religions can be Westernized" - is that not what you are arguing? How can someone from an eastern, mystic religion be "expected" to be "rational" without having to reject or modify his faith to suit your expectations? Is that fair to them?

457 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:41:40pm

re: #447 Charles


Just pathetic. But please do continue.


Like I said, your silence speaks volumes. I wish you had the courage to stand up logic and truth, and not just for your regular posters.

You have a great website, don't let these fools ruin it by making people think that you actually believe in this bigotry. When people at dailykos call you a racist or a bigot, it's because they think that you actually believe the stuff that gets posted on some threads, like this one.

458 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:41:42pm

re: #444 Jwaksman

re: #432 Syrah


For both the curious and the courageous, here is a short explanation of various logical fallacies.

These are dangerous.

He who lives by the logical fallacy, dies by the logical fallacy.


Yep, that pretty much covers a lot of the nonsense here tonight. A lot of people would do a lot for their own education by reading through these logical fallacies.

I haven't looked yet. Is "projection" listed among them?

Just wondering, is all...

459 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:41:52pm

re: #454 Sharmuta

re: #452 Jwaksman

Boy- you just know everything, don't you?

He/she/it has a college education.

460 DerKrieger  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:42:27pm

I'm late to this party but it appears as though Jwaksman is a devout practitioner of cultural relativism, i.e. all cultures are equal with none better than any other. Right?

461 yah  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:42:32pm

re: #189 Lanaty

They're both downright idiotic books designed to control primitive people.


Yes, that's exactly what your professors have taught you, right?
So you don't want those books or religion to control you, because you are afraid somebody will think you are primitive or dumb, and you want to be free of controls.
You got it all figured out.

Did you ever stop to think that its the professors who are to controlling you? But to control you, first they had to get those "idiotic books" and religion out of their way.

Lanity, it is all just a power trip. You can choose who you give the power to.

You are free to worship your professors and left wing idols. But don't think for a second that they don't control you.

462 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:42:38pm

The bollywood clip of the day.....
Masala - Od Tarnobrzegu po Bangladesz

Polish Hip-hop meets Bollywood!
Enjoy the extra schtupid trolls, y'all.

463 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:42:50pm

re: #457 Jwaksman

FOAD asshole.

464 experiencedtraveller  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:43:00pm
don't let these fools ruin it by making people think that you actually believe in this bigotry.

/cleaning my nails...fiddling with the dial

465 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:43:06pm

re: #455 rtheyserius

Jwaksman, I realize you are fielding a lot of responses. If you're still here, I'm really interested in your answer to: #318 rtheyserius


I believe ANYBODY FROM ANY RELIGION could POSSIBLY become president. As long as their politics jived withed what I consider reasonable politics. Obviously, nobody who believes in sharia law would be qualified to be President of this great nation.

466 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:43:40pm

re: #460 DerKrieger

I'm late to this party but it appears as though Jwaksman is a devout
practitioner of cultural relativism, i.e. all cultures are equal with
none better than any other. Right?


God no. He believes, like I believe, that there actually are some Moderate Muslims alive in the world who don't think that they should execute their daughter if she starts dating. That's where this entire thing got started.

467 David IV of Georgia  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:43:54pm

re: #178 Racer X

re: #138 Jwaksman



The Koran advocates violence. So does the Bible.

Most Christians "evolved" and no longer advocate violence. Most muslims continue to advocate hatred and violence towards non-muslims. This demonstrated daily by them. The few muslims you speak of who are "moderate" are clearly not adhering to their faith.

Most Christians believe in a "progressive revelation", that God took the Hebrew nation in its infancy when it was little different than the pagan gentile nations around it and guided it. God did not force them to change overnight but led them with patience and mercy. If you bother to read the entire Bible, you will notice that condemnation is balanced with the possibility of mercy. Furthermore, as the Hebrews/Israel/Judah grows in understanding of what God wants and of who God is, violence is proportionately replaced with mercy. His hope was and is that Israel will then be able to teach and be an example for all the world.

"Progressive revelation" is progressive because God took over a thousand years to complete the teaching. It is revelation because the Wholly Other (the transcendent God) cannot be known by man except The Wholly Other reveals himself.

Islam abrogates earlier, more merciful teachings for those that are more violent.

Christians and Jews believe that the more violent parts of their history were for those ancient times of incomplete revelation and have led to a fuller understanding that God is truly merciful and kind.

How many Jews or Christians obsess over the Ammonites or the Canaanites being haram and subject to destruction? Most would not even realize that it was ever part of the history of their faiths.

468 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:44:14pm

re: #457 Jwaksman

You have a great website, don't let these fools ruin it by making people think that you actually believe in this bigotry. When people at dailykos call you a racist or a bigot, it's because they think that you actually believe the stuff that gets posted on some threads, like this one.

sniff, sniff.

Smells like a set up to me.

469 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:44:44pm

re: #461 yah

I felt this way long before I took the course. I didn't come in to college a devout religious person and leave an atheist.

470 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:44:54pm

re: #460 DerKrieger

I'm late to this party but it appears as though Jwaksman is a devout practitioner of cultural relativism, i.e. all cultures are equal with none better than any other. Right?

Right.

471 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:44:57pm

NY Nana (#427),

This is what passes as an edumacation...

And yes, my oldest did go to Columbia Grad School...but he is now almost 44 years old. I do not remember the rampant L3 crap, but then his MSc is in historic preservation.

HA! I knew you weren't 12 years old.

472 ibmkeyboard  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:45:20pm

Any of you guys ever go to Sunday School?


Raiders of the lost ark.

473 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:45:24pm

re: #424 Lanaty

re: #406 xenophobic

"You CAN, however, find evidence in support of the Big Bang Theory "
You be edjumicated can you tell me wat 'Theory' means?

Typical non-scientist remark. "Theory" as a colloquial term does not mean the same as "Theory" in the scientific sense. Gravity is also a THEORY. Understood?

You guys like to go after someone on word gaming.

Care to prove that creation cannot have occurred? If not, do you care to retract statements regarding "creationists" not being qualified to be admitted to accredited universities?

Your burden. Waiting.

474 Spiny Norman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:45:50pm

re: #458 Noam Sayin'

re: #444 Jwaksman
re: #432 Syrah
For both the curious and the courageous, here is a short explanation of various logical fallacies.

These are dangerous.

He who lives by the logical fallacy, dies by the logical fallacy.

Yep, that pretty much covers a lot of the nonsense here tonight. A lot of people would do a lot for their own education by reading through these logical fallacies.
I haven't looked yet. Is "projection" listed among them?

Just wondering, is all...

Projection is a mental disorder, one sadly common on the Left, but not exclusive to it.

475 ornery elephant  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:45:51pm

wow

just got here. Noticed Jwaksman has 83 posts on LGF since 2004. Let's see , he/she has about what?..... 65 on this thread alone? Must have had to dust the moth balls off that nic, huh Jwaksman?

476 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:45:56pm

re: #465 Jwaksman

With the koran as the foundation of your belief system I suspect that the situational ethics would be the downfall of any muslim running for higher office. The internet won't let you lie for long.

477 Stonemason  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:45:58pm

re: #424 Lanaty

Uhhh, no, Gravity is a LAW...the theory has been proved over and over in various ways.

This is what, 6th grade? Theories are not proved, laws are. Pretty simple.

Actually, the theory I would like proof of is the creation of life. If it happened as the scientists say it did, it can be recreated in a lab, if not, it will never be he 'law' of evolution, only a theory.

478 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:46:04pm
When people at dailykos call you a racist or a bigot, it's because they think that you actually believe the stuff that gets posted on some threads, like this one.

Then I'd say they're using faulty logic to ascribe other people's words to Charles. That is the height of idiocy, kosling.

479 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:46:06pm

re: #469 Lanaty

re: #461 yah

I felt this way long before I took the course. I didn't come in to college a devout religious person and leave an atheist.

Exactly. Nobody is that stupid.

480 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:46:11pm

re: #460 DerKrieger

I'm late to this party but it appears as though Jwaksman is a devout practitioner of cultural relativism, i.e. all cultures are equal with none better than any other. Right?


Wrong, the opposite. I believe that America is superior to Iran, Saudi Arabia and Syria because of our values. I simply don't believe that these values belong to any particular religion. No religion has a monopoly on moral people. When I say that every religion is equal, it doesn't mean that I think every religion is the same or that their practitioners are equally intelligent or reasonable. I am a Jew, so I believe in that religion. What I mean is that you can't judge people by their religion. One religion is as good as the next - people's actions speak to their character. Not their religion.


I get the sense that some people here are so bigoted that they wouldn't even be friends with a muslim. Bigotry is a dangerous thing, my friends.

481 rightwinger3  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:46:28pm

re: #457 Jwaksman

re: #447 Charles


Just pathetic. But please do continue.


Like I said, your silence speaks volumes. I wish you had the courage to stand up logic and truth, and not just for your regular posters.

You have a great website, don't let these fools ruin it by making people think that you actually believe in this bigotry. When people at dailykos call you a racist or a bigot, it's because they think that you actually believe the stuff that gets posted on some threads, like this one.

Wow, dude or chick or asswipe whatever you are, are you fuckin' kiddin' me?

482 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:46:29pm

re: #452 Jwaksman

re: #436 Thanos


No silly, gravity is a property of mass. Gravitation is the theory.

No silly, it is a theory that gravity is a "property" of mass.

I guess it all depends on which paralell universe you are in.

Answer this: If you send an electric signal down an 8,000 mile copper cable & simultaneously send a light beam down a fiber-optic cable which would arrive first?

483 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:46:31pm

re: #473 karmic_inquisitor

re: #424 Lanaty

re: #406 xenophobic

"You CAN, however, find evidence in support of the Big Bang Theory "
You be edjumicated can you tell me wat 'Theory' means?

Typical
non-scientist remark. "Theory" as a colloquial term does not mean the
same as "Theory" in the scientific sense. Gravity is also a THEORY.
Understood?

You guys like to go after someone on word gaming.

Care
to prove that creation cannot have occurred? If not, do you care to
retract statements regarding "creationists" not being qualified to be
admitted to accredited universities?

Your burden. Waiting.

Again, LOGICAL FALLACY. It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove whether or not Creationism occured. That's exactly what is wrong with the idea of Creationism--there's no way to investigate it. But if God sends you a fax with his creationism schematics, do post it.

484 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:46:38pm

re: #465 Jwaksman

As long as their politics jived withed what I consider reasonable politics.

No thanks. We'll let the voters decide.

485 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:47:31pm

re: #335 karmic_inquisitor

re: #310 Charles


The straw men are flying fast and furious now.

I am trying to make sense of the thread having joined late.

Lots of projection going on. Seems that we have a refusal to hit the points of discussion. Far easier to smear lizardoidia with generalizations.

It is a form of bigotry.

I go back to my earlier hypothesis of either a kos 'diary' or, I now think it may be a term paper in the making.

486 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:47:37pm

re: #475 ornery elephant

wow

just got here. Noticed Jwaksman has 83 posts on LGF since 2004. Let's see , he/she has about what?..... 65 on this thread alone? Must have had to dust the moth balls off that nic, huh Jwaksman?

Sleeper cell coming out?

487 hous bin pharteen  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:47:55pm

re: #395 karmic_inquisitor

How does the Big Bang preclude the existence of a creator?

Still waiting for an answer to that one....

488 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:48:14pm

re: #470 Charles

If anyone wants to continue beating their heads re: #460 DerKrieger

I'm late to this party but it appears as though Jwaksman is a devout practitioner of cultural relativism, i.e. all cultures are equal with none better than any other. Right?

Right.


You obviously haven't read a single thing I've said. Seriously, at least READ what I'm typing before you judge me.


Saying that it's possible that there are some muslims out there who are nice and intelligent people doesn't make me a moral relativist.

By the way, I'm not holding my breath until you call DerKrieger out for his use of a straw man argument.

489 ChildOfMary  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:48:14pm

re: #312 Jwaksman

There is no real definition of a Muslim... my guess would be anyone who believes that Muhammed existed and that he spoke to God.

More wasted tuition dollars -- Mohammed did not "speak to God" -- Allah spoke through Mohammed -- the words of Mohammed were not his, they were the words of Allah -- -- that is why every word of the Koran is sacred and can never be altered

490 spikester  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:48:20pm

Doesn't the Big Bang require an astounding leap of faith?

491 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:48:32pm

re: #474 Spiny Norman

re: #458 Noam Sayin'

re: #444 Jwaksman

re: #432 Syrah
For both the curious and the courageous, here is a short explanation of various logical fallacies.These are dangerous.

He who lives by the logical fallacy, dies by the logical fallacy.

Yep, that pretty much covers a lot of the nonsense here tonight. A lot of people would do a lot for their own education by reading through these logical fallacies.

I haven't looked yet. Is "projection" listed among them?Just wondering, is all...

Projection is a mental disorder, one sadly common on the Left, but not exclusive to it.

I was hoping jwaksman would answer that one. He's got himself what they call a college ejumacation.

492 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:48:34pm

re: #484 Kreuzueber Halbmond

re: #465 Jwaksman


As long as their politics jived withed what I consider reasonable politics.

No thanks. We'll let the voters decide.

I'm still waiting for him to come back with exactly where the Constitution tells me I can't take religion/cult into consideration when VOTING. Every time I ask, I get the race card played lol.

So far, no proof.

493 pat  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:48:52pm

Let them argue. I did a post some time back on the number of people slaughtered by atheist. I used conservative numbers and did not include Hitler, who claimed some unidentifiable religion as being important to him. Only Islam and Genghis Khan come close. Atheist are the most repugnant and nasty killers on earth. All is meaningless. Their ignorant mouthings, with silly accents seem important to them. Their addiction to controversy and centers of hate are like candy. See a child molester? That is an atheist or a Muslim.

494 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:48:55pm

re: #434 Jwaksman

Come on Charles, are you afraid to offend some of your more regular posters? Is it not a straw man argument to bring up Charles Manson when I say that people of all religions have the capability of being reasonable people?


If you continue to refuse to answer, your silence will speak volumes (to paraphrase Lee Bollinger).

Shifting argument.

You asserted that people of all religions can be rational.

That is a bigoted and ethnocentric assertion. Care to defend it on its own or chase down new ad hominem opportunities.

495 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:49:03pm
496 hous bin pharteen  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:49:24pm

re: #486 NJDhockeyfan

That makes no sense.
I thought Charles allowed them access the other night when they were defending asking Ahmadiinerjacket to pontificate at Columbia.

497 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:49:48pm

re: #482 Thanos

re: #452 Jwaksman

re: #436 Thanos


No silly, gravity is a property of mass. Gravitation is the theory.


No silly, it is a theory that gravity is a "property" of mass.

I guess it all depends on which paralell universe you are in.

Answer this: If you send an electric signal down an 8,000 mile copper cable & simultaneously send a light beam down a fiber-optic cable which would arrive first?

That depends on what the propagation velocity is in either medium. Without knowing that you really can't say.

498 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:50:01pm

re: #487 hous bin pharteen

re: #395 karmic_inquisitor

How does the Big Bang preclude the existence of a creator?

Still waiting for an answer to that one....

The Bible supports the Big Bang.
And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

499 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:50:03pm

re: #475 ornery elephant

Re-read that football, ornery. J's only been here for a week - and making friends left and left.

500 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:50:14pm

re: #470 Charles

If anyone wants to continue beating their heads re: #460 DerKrieger


I'm late to this party but it appears as though Jwaksman is a devout practitioner of cultural relativism, i.e. all cultures are equal with none better than any other. Right?

Right.

Actually I think he's a DKOS moby trolling for hate posts, keeps putting the strawman up about moderate muslims. Everyone here agrees that they exist, but he keeps putting it forth.

501 spikester  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:50:22pm

An excellent argument for the separation of Church and Stat

re: #423 Sharmuta

re: #413 Lanaty

Nice try. Whose freedoms were Crusaders denying?

502 LSD  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:50:23pm

Muslims Against Sharia

OUR GOALS
* to educate Muslims about dangers presented by Islamic religious texts and why Islam must be reformed * to educate non-Muslims about the differences between moderate Muslims and Islamists (a.k.a. Islamic Religious Fanatics, Radical Muslims, Muslim Fundamentalists, Islamic Extremists or Islamofascists) * to educate both Muslims and non-Muslims alike that Moderate Muslims are also targets of Islamic Terror - Acknowledging mistakes
The majority of the terrorist acts of the last three decades, including the 9/11 attacks, were perpetrated by Islamic fundamentalists in the name of Islam. We, as Muslims, find it abhorrent that Islam is used to murder millions of innocent people, Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

Inconsistencies in the Koran
Unfortunately, Islamic religious texts, including the Koran and the Hadith contain many passages, which call for Islamic domination and incite violence against non-Muslims. It is time to change that. Muslim fundamentalists believe that the Koran is the literal word of Allah. But could Allah, the most Merciful, the most Compassionate, command mass slaughter of people whose only fault is being non-Muslim?

The Koran & the Bible
Many Bible figures from Adam to Jesus (Isa) are considered to be prophets and are respected by Islam. Islamic scholars however believe that both the Old and the New Testament came from God, but that they were corrupted by the Jews and Christians over time. While neither Testament calls for mass murder of unbelievers, the Koran does. Could it be possible that the Koran itself was corrupted by Muslims over the last thirteen centuries?

The need for reform
Islam, in its present form, is not compatible with principles of freedom and democracy. Twenty-first century Muslims have two options: we can continue the barbaric policies of the seventh century perpetuated by Hassan al-Banna, Abdullah Azzam, Yassir Arafat, Ruhollah Khomeini, Osama bin Laden, Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, Hizballah, Hamas, Hizb-ut-Tahrir, etc., leading to a global war between Dar al-Islam (Islamic World) and Dar al-Harb (non-Islamic World), or we can reform Islam to keep our rich cultural heritage and to cleanse our religion from the reviled relics of the past. We, as Muslims who desire to live in harmony with people of other religions, agnostics, and atheists choose the latter option. We can no longer allow Islamic extremists to use our religion as a weapon. We must protect future generations of Muslims from being brainwashed by the Islamic radicals. If we do not stop the spread of Islamic fundamentalism, our children will become homicidal zombies.

Accepting responsibilities
To start the healing process, we must acknowledge evils done by Muslims in the name of Islam and accept responsibility for those evils. We must remove evil passages from Islamic religious texts, so that future generations of Muslims will not be confused by conflicting messages. Our religious message should be loud and clear: Islam is peace; Islam is love; Islam is light. War, murder, violence, divisiveness & discrimination are not Islamic values...

The Crusades vs. The Inquisition
While the Inquisition was a repulsive practice by Christian Fundamentalists, the Crusades were not unprovoked acts of aggression, but rather attempts to recapture formerly Christian lands controlled by Muslims ...

503 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:50:29pm

re: #453 Charles

re: #446 Spiny Norman


Anyone keeping track of the logical fallacies on this thread?

I think we've pretty much covered the waterfront.

Including the waterline?

504 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:50:33pm

re: #482 Thanos


Answer this: If you send an electric signal down an 8,000 mile copper cable & simultaneously send a light beam down a fiber-optic cable which would arrive first?

If the copper wire is perfectly superconductive, and the fiber-optic cable was perfectly straight with no impurities, both signals would travel at the speed of light. Even with minor imperfections, both signals will be pretty close to the speed of light.


Answer this: How old is the universe? Hint... it's not 5768 years old.

505 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:50:43pm

re: #497 Perplexed

re: #482 Thanos

re: #452 Jwaksman

re: #436 Thanos


No silly, gravity is a property of mass. Gravitation is the theory.


No silly, it is a theory that gravity is a "property" of mass.

I guess it all depends on which paralell universe you are in.

Answer this: If you send an electric signal down an 8,000 mile copper cable & simultaneously send a light beam down a fiber-optic cable which would arrive first?

That depends on what the propagation velocity is in either medium. Without knowing that you really can't say.

Wrong, depends on if you've paid the phone bill.

506 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:50:49pm
Come on Charles, are you afraid to offend some of your more regular posters?

Can it get any better than this?



If you continue to refuse to answer, your silence will speak volumes

Why yes, yes it can.

507 WimbledonWomble  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:51:00pm

McCain is either very shrewd or an idiot for walking into this one. Shrewd, because as an open-borders advocate, he has to prove that he values American values. Sad that a guy who was tortured in a Vietnamese prison camp is not clearly on the side of preserving Western values. Sadder that he then has to pander to the (still) largely pro-Western American population by making statements like this. Sadder still that he is pilloried for stating the obvious: that a president with Western values is preferable to one without Western values, which is essentially what this is about.

But he walked into this crap by not articulating his position. Instead of making it about Western values vs. uncertain values, he made it about religion, after the "I admire the Islam" statement to try to protect himself from the sort of accusations he is now the object of. Hasn't he ever heard that the first thing anti-Semites say before launching into their tirade is "some of my best friends are Jews?" Sure, the electorate that will decide the outcome in the primaries here is still conservative America, so that's the audience he is playing to, but it still seems like Mr. Sellout trying to turn back the clock on his own record to me.

McCain was being an idiot, but he thought he was being shrewd. CAIR stepped in because CAIR is so blinded by its knee-jerk Islamophobia/paranoia thing that it can't see the forest for the trees.

The noteworthy thing here is not that CAIR is attacking McCain for finally saying something obvious, but that CAIR is attacking someone who is basically one of their best allies on the Republican side who said something without sincerity to garner votes. McCain was playing politics in a pretty transparent way. CAIR is just unable to see that. CAIR's out-of-touchedness is the big story here. They are shooting Islamophobia blanks at everyone without any strategy.

Rudy is the only guy who understands CAIR and the real threats to the US.

508 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:51:00pm

re: #493 pat

See a
child molester? That is an atheist or a Muslim.

May I introduce you to the Catholic Church?

509 ornery elephant  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:51:08pm

I'm not a computer expert but is it just a coincidence that Lanaty and Jwasksman became members of LGF on the SAME EXACT DAY?

:shrug:

510 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:51:26pm

re: #485 bikermailman

re: #335 karmic_inquisitor


re: #310 Charles

The straw men are flying fast and furious now.

I am trying to make sense of the thread having joined late.
Lots of projection going on. Seems that we have a refusal to hit the points of discussion. Far easier to smear lizardoidia with generalizations.

It is a form of bigotry.


I go back to my earlier hypothesis of either a kos 'diary' or, I now think it may be a term paper in the making.

You just might be onto something there.

511 stevieray  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:51:37pm

Its sad... these agent provocateurs think they are winning!

It'll be fun to see where else they post their "brilliant" comments and the heavily edited replies they got.

Anyhow...

I like how, in their minds, Islam shifts from a religion to an ethnicity to a philosophical buffet (pick and choose the dogmas you like, ignore the rest) whenever it suits them... a handy tool in any argument to be sure.

The thing they cannot get around is Islam has written rules... articles of belief. Those ideas are an anathema to American ideology.

To be a Muslim, you are self-identifying with those ideas... and you will justifiably be judged by those ideas you have chosen to embrace.

If you do not like those ideas and the actions they demand, do not embrace that faith... simple as that.

Judging ideas and actions is not called bigotry... it is called sentience!

512 trailortrash  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:51:43pm

/waves
been gone a while and i missed the party :(

SNL is busting on dinnerjacket lol

513 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:51:44pm

I just find it flat hard to believe that someone is telling the truth when they toss in the *You have a great site Charles and I read it a lot and for a long time*, yet say this stuff.

514 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:51:45pm

re: #483 Lanaty

Since when is a trap a logical falacy?

Do you now see that assertions made that dismiss creationism prima facie are themselves fallacious?

515 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:51:52pm

re: #489 ChildOfMary

More wasted tuition dollars -- Mohammed did not "speak to God" -- Allah spoke through Mohammed -- the words of Mohammed were not his, they were the words of Allah -- -- that is why every word of the Koran is sacred and can never be altered


You're right, I definitely would have been better off if I was like you and never got an education. But thanks for playing semantics with my words - I guess you didn't learn about logical fallacies while you were being homeschooled?

516 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:52:16pm

re: #488 Jwaksman

By the way, I'm not holding my breath until you call DerKrieger out for his use of a straw man argument.

That's good -- we wouldn't want you to turn blue.

517 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:52:18pm

re: #465 Jwaksman


I believe ANYBODY FROM ANY RELIGION could POSSIBLY become president.

re: #483 Lanaty

re: #473 karmic_inquisitor


re: #424 Lanaty

re: #406 xenophobic

"You CAN, however, find evidence in support of the Big Bang Theory "
You be edjumicated can you tell me wat 'Theory' means?

Typical
non-scientist remark. "Theory" as a colloquial term does not mean the
same as "Theory" in the scientific sense. Gravity is also a THEORY.
Understood?

You guys like to go after someone on word gaming.

Care
to prove that creation cannot have occurred? If not, do you care to
retract statements regarding "creationists" not being qualified to be
admitted to accredited universities?

Your burden. Waiting.


Again, LOGICAL FALLACY. It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove whether or not Creationism occured. That's exactly what is wrong with the idea of Creationism--there's no way to investigate it. But if God sends you a fax with his creationism schematics, do post it.

People like you -- knuckle-headed logical positivists straight outta 1897 -- are singularly unable to pronounce on such matters. Trust me pal, theology and spiritual matters are so far beyond you that I wouldn't even know where to begin.

I never debate athiests for the same reason I never debate my dog: in both cases I'll lose.

518 ChildOfMary  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:52:19pm

re: #443 xenophobic

re: #413 Lanaty
This was not true during the Crusades, but it is true today.

Charles Martel
He is best remembered for winning the Battle of Tours in 732, which has traditionally been characterized as an event that saved Europe from the Islamic expansionism that had conquered Iberia.

First Crusade 1096–1099

Wait, which aggression came first?

Wait, you mean the Muslims weren't invited into the lands they occupied? They, like, conquered them with force? Are you sure, or is this that revisionist history I hear so much about?

/Sarc

519 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:52:31pm

re: #504 Jwaksman

re: #482 Thanos


Answer this: If you send an electric signal down an 8,000 mile copper cable & simultaneously send a light beam down a fiber-optic cable which would arrive first?

If the copper wire is perfectly superconductive, and the fiber-optic cable was perfectly straight with no impurities, both signals would travel at the speed of light. Even with minor imperfections, both signals will be pretty close to the speed of light.


Answer this: How old is the universe? Hint... it's not 5768 years old.

That's Bishop Usher's number, he made a lot of errors.

520 Irene NYC  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:52:33pm

re: #370 Jwaksman


Try not to be so predictable, Charles. Really.

Not that Charles can't defend himself, but, buddy, you've been here a total of five whole days. Where'd you learn your manners? If you have an argument to be made, sarcasm directed at the head of LGF is beyond stupid.

521 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:52:44pm

re: #509 ornery elephant

I'm not a computer expert but is it just a coincidence that Lanaty and Jwasksman became members of LGF on the SAME EXACT DAY?

:shrug:


Ask Charles about it. He knows why.

522 NY Nana  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:52:49pm

re: #470 Charles

Charles,

Could one of them be the other's sockpuppet?

What are the odds (no pun intended..honest!) of 2 like that in the same place at the same time?

523 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:52:52pm

re: #504 Jwaksman

re: #482 Thanos


Answer this: If you send an electric signal down an 8,000 mile copper cable & simultaneously send a light beam down a fiber-optic cable which would arrive first?

If the copper wire is perfectly superconductive, and the fiber-optic cable was perfectly straight with no impurities, both signals would travel at the speed of light. Even with minor imperfections, both signals will be pretty close to the speed of light.


Answer this: How old is the universe? Hint... it's not 5768 years old.

Wrong. Try again, but first look up "refraction" son.

524 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:53:02pm

re: #72 Lanaty

Religion is absolutely retarded.


re: #480 Jwaksman

I am a Jew, so I believe in that religion.

I think you are arguing with the wrong person here dude.

525 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:53:10pm

re: #514 karmic_inquisitor

re: #483 Lanaty

Since when is a trap a logical falacy?

Do you now see that assertions made that dismiss creationism prima facie are themselves fallacious?

It does not PROVE that it DID happen. I also can't prove or disprove that a meatball created the universe.

526 Spiny Norman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:53:14pm

re: #473 karmic_inquisitor

Psst.. "negative proof" is also a logical fallacy.

527 experiencedtraveller  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:53:20pm
I get the sense that some people here are so bigoted that they wouldn't even be friends with a muslim. Bigotry is a dangerous thing, my friends.

/Resident of Muslim countries for many years; correspondent with Muslims; participant in international business with Muslims; et al...

528 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:53:25pm

re: #508 Lanaty

re: #493 pat


See a
child molester? That is an atheist or a Muslim.

May I introduce you to the Catholic Church?

Charles, this guy is an offensive asshole!

529 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:53:29pm

re: #492 Highrise

So far, no proof.

Heh. Don't hold your breath.

530 ornery elephant  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:53:35pm

re: #499 Noam Sayin'

re: #475 ornery elephant

Re-read that football, ornery. J's only been here for a week - and making friends left and left.

hahahaha Noam....you're right! I got this little Dick Tracy book in my Captain Crunch today and it apparently has me obsessed ! LOL

531 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:53:42pm

re: #517 Pro-Bush Canuck

You assume that I am an atheist. I clearly stated in a prior post that I believe in God.

532 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:53:55pm

re: #502 LSD

Muslims Against Sharia

OUR GOALS
* to educate Muslims about dangers presented by Islamic religious texts and why Islam must be reformed * to educate non-Muslims about the differences between moderate Muslims and Islamists (a.k.a. Islamic Religious Fanatics, Radical Muslims, Muslim Fundamentalists, Islamic Extremists or Islamofascists) * to educate both Muslims and non-Muslims alike that Moderate Muslims are also targets of Islamic Terror - Acknowledging mistakes
The majority of the terrorist acts of the last three decades, including the 9/11 attacks, were perpetrated by Islamic fundamentalists in the name of Islam. We, as Muslims, find it abhorrent that Islam is used to murder millions of innocent people, Muslims and non-Muslims alike.Inconsistencies in the Koran
Unfortunately, Islamic religious texts, including the Koran and the Hadith contain many passages, which call for Islamic domination and incite violence against non-Muslims. It is time to change that. Muslim fundamentalists believe that the Koran is the literal word of Allah. But could Allah, the most Merciful, the most Compassionate, command mass slaughter of people whose only fault is being non-Muslim?

The Koran & the Bible
Many Bible figures from Adam to Jesus (Isa) are considered to be prophets and are respected by Islam. Islamic scholars however believe that both the Old and the New Testament came from God, but that they were corrupted by the Jews and Christians over time. While neither Testament calls for mass murder of unbelievers, the Koran does. Could it be possible that the Koran itself was corrupted by Muslims over the last thirteen centuries?

The need for reform
Islam, in its present form, is not compatible with principles of freedom and democracy. Twenty-first century Muslims have two options: we can continue the barbaric policies of the seventh century perpetuated by Hassan al-Banna, Abdullah Azzam, Yassir Arafat, Ruhollah Khomeini, Osama bin Laden, Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, Hizballah, Hamas, Hizb-ut-Tahrir, etc., leading to a global war between Dar al-Islam (Islamic World) and Dar al-Harb (non-Islamic World), or we can reform Islam to keep our rich cultural heritage and to cleanse our religion from the reviled relics of the past. We, as Muslims who desire to live in harmony with people of other religions, agnostics, and atheists choose the latter option. We can no longer allow Islamic extremists to use our religion as a weapon. We must protect future generations of Muslims from being brainwashed by the Islamic radicals. If we do not stop the spread of Islamic fundamentalism, our children will become homicidal zombies.

Accepting responsibilities
To start the healing process, we must acknowledge evils done by Muslims in the name of Islam and accept responsibility for those evils. We must remove evil passages from Islamic religious texts, so that future generations of Muslims will not be confused by conflicting messages. Our religious message should be loud and clear: Islam is peace; Islam is love; Islam is light. War, murder, violence, divisiveness & discrimination are not Islamic values...

The Crusades vs. The Inquisition
While the Inquisition was a repulsive practice by Christian Fundamentalists, the Crusades were not unprovoked acts of aggression, but rather attempts to recapture formerly Christian lands controlled by Muslims ...


Don't you realize that website can't exist? Haven't you read what these superior intellects here have been telling us? ALL muslims believe in sharia! You can't be a muslim and not believe in sharia! Therefore, any group called "muslims against sharia" is a logical contradiction and cannot exist.

533 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:53:57pm

re: #504 Jwaksman

Wrong, you have a propagation velocity for both of them. We are taking real world here. The velocity of light is only constant in a vacuum.

534 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:54:00pm

re: #509 ornery elephant

I'm not a computer expert but is it just a coincidence that Lanaty and Jwasksman became members of LGF on the SAME EXACT DAY?

:shrug:

They were both given an account I think to discuss the whole dinnerjacket speaking at Columbia, their college. They wanted to set us straight on a few things hehe.

535 pat  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:54:01pm

re: #508 Lanaty

A Catholic child molester is going to hell. He knows it. A Muslim thinks he has done a good deed. He will go to Paradise. Your friends could care less.

536 hous bin pharteen  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:54:05pm

re: #501 spikester

An excellent argument for the separation of Church and Stat

What? The priest can't quote the football stats from the pulpit?

537 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:54:16pm

And Jwaksman:

If you sense that I'm dismissing you, you're right. You're not arguing honestly, and I have nothing but contempt for people who do that.

But please ... carry on. There's still room to dig.

538 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:54:34pm

Next topic: String Theory

/luckily, tonight we're honored to have a couple of omniscients on board

539 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:54:55pm

re: #523 Thanos

Wrong. Try again, but first look up "refraction" son.


Son. I'm close to finishing a PhD in physics. Don't act like you know more about this elementary physics than I do. Please.

540 ChildOfMary  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:55:00pm

re: #490 spikester

Doesn't the Big Bang require an astounding leap of faith?

Sure does.

541 Spiny Norman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:55:09pm

re: #506 Geepers

Come on Charles, are you afraid to offend some of your more regular posters?
Can it get any better than this?
If you continue to refuse to answer, your silence will speak volumes
Why yes, yes it can.

I continue to be marvelled.

542 DistantThunder  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:55:15pm

Wow, it looks like I missed all the fun and foolishness.

Thanks to Charles for being such a patient host to such obsfucating trolls.

543 Le_Patriot  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:55:17pm

re: #434 Jwaksman

Come on Charles, are you afraid to offend some of your more regular posters? Is it not a straw man argument to bring up Charles Manson when I say that people of all religions have the capability of being reasonable people?


If you continue to refuse to answer, your silence will speak volumes (to paraphrase Lee Bollinger).

__________
Capability? ?
If a Muslim truly understands the entire Koran teachings, then he/she has the capability to reject the religion which calls for my forcible conversion (or else my death), and leave that religion.
If not, I sure don't want that Muslim to be POTUS if they aren't intelligent enough to leave.
/Birds of a feather....

544 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:55:24pm

re: #531 Lanaty

re: #517 Pro-Bush Canuck

You assume that I am an atheist. I clearly stated in a prior post that I believe in God.

So does Osama bin Laden.

545 NY Nana  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:55:37pm

re: #495 song_and_dance_man

I think they are in a primordial swamp where the sun don't shine...at all....or on an alternate planet.

546 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:55:45pm

The lack of globular clusters means it is all fake.

547 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:55:58pm

O/T, but what the heck.
I took delivery on a new pancake maker today to try out. Its a bit pricy, but a heck of a machine. The controls are basicly the same as my current pancake maker, but this one has more power, greater speed, and more control. Now, I must decide, do I need two pancake makers? If I decide I only need one, do I get this one and trade my old one, or keep my old one and snub the sales man on this machine? This one would win hands down, if it had A/C and a kick azz sterio.

548 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:56:13pm

re: #535 pat

re: #508 Lanaty

A
Catholic child molester is going to hell. He knows it. A Muslim thinks
he has done a good deed. He will go to Paradise. Your friends could
care less.

The poster said that child molesters are either only atheists or Muslims. Based on the Catholic Priest scandal, we know that to be false. His post had NOTHING to do with heaven or hell.

By the way, if a Muslim thinks it's a good thing to molest, then we know why they molest. But if a Catholic knows it's WRONG to molest but does it anyway, that's just remarkable.

549 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:56:23pm

re: #532 Jwaksman

What an incredible argument- wildly ascribing positions to people who haven't even stated that. Please- point me to the post where I said that.

550 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:56:30pm

re: #509 ornery elephant

I'm not a computer expert but is it just a coincidence that Lanaty and Jwasksman became members of LGF on the SAME EXACT DAY?

:shrug:

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

Let me get you a drink. There's a great spot to watch all this from the bar.

/did you see I ended up parking my Jeep on Gordon's Mercedes again? I think I saw jwaksman and Lanaty driving up in it tonight. Couldn't resist, really.

551 ornery elephant  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:56:34pm

This is your brain.

This is your brain on Columbia University.

552 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:56:41pm

re: #532 Jwaksman

Strawman

553 Spiny Norman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:56:45pm

re: #546 jcm

The lack of globular clusters means it is all fake.

NOW you've done it!

554 The Albatross  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:57:03pm

re: #520 Irene NYC

re: #370 Jwaksman



Try not to be so predictable, Charles. Really.

Not that Charles can't defend himself, but, buddy, you've been here a total of five whole days. Where'd you learn your manners? If you have an argument to be made, sarcasm directed at the head of LGF is beyond stupid.


Heh.

You can say that now, but Mister... when he wants some shut eye the discussion is over or else it's bullying. So if you got any licks, get them in before he hollers bedtime.

Have fun lizards... play nice.

555 DerKrieger  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:57:05pm

re: #516 Charles

re: #488 Jwaksman

By the way, I'm not holding my breath until you call DerKrieger out for his use of a straw man argument.

That's good -- we wouldn't want you to turn blue.

I didn't realize I'd made any argument yet. I merely posted a question.

556 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:57:30pm

re: #539 Jwaksman

Could you be more arrogant?

557 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:57:39pm

re: #548 Lanaty

By the way, if a Muslim thinks it's a good thing to molest, then we know why they molest. But if a Catholic knows it's WRONG to molest but does it anyway, that's just remarkable.

No way could someone like you have kids and make such a stupid statement.

558 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:57:43pm

re: #539 Jwaksman

Suggest you demand a refund, son. Most of the regulars could be either your mother or father.

559 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:57:45pm

re: #546 jcm

The lack of globular clusters means it is all fake.

LOL!

560 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:57:46pm

re: #547 JeremyR

O/T, but what the heck.
I took delivery on a new pancake maker today to try out. Its a bit pricy, but a heck of a machine. The controls are basicly the same as my current pancake maker, but this one has more power, greater speed, and more control. Now, I must decide, do I need two pancake makers? If I decide I only need one, do I get this one and trade my old one, or keep my old one and snub the sales man on this machine? This one would win hands down, if it had A/C and a kick azz sterio.

OHHH! A shiny new pancake maker!

561 Syrah  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:57:51pm

re: #458 Noam Sayin'

I haven't looked yet. Is "projection" listed among them?

Not specifically.

I think "projection" falls more appropriately in the field of psychoanalysis.

Shrinkwrapped, Dr Sanity, and Sigmund would be good places to look for more on that topic.

562 Ay, Caramba  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:57:52pm

The Big Bang Theory: Let There Be Light.

563 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:58:00pm

Spiny Norman (#446),

Mr Holland's Opus... ::sigh::


And the thread was the LGF Prayer.

Oh lord, grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls, the courage to debate with honest opponents, and the wisdom to know the difference.

"Mr. Holland's Opus is a symphony where the instruments have been replaced by weapons of mass destruction."

Much like this thread.

564 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:58:05pm

re: #537 Charles

And Jwaksman:

If you sense that I'm dismissing you, you're right. You're not arguing honestly, and I have nothing but contempt for people who do that.

But please ... carry on. There's still room to dig.


Really? Tell me ONE thing I have done that is inappropriate. Certainly you have low standards since posters have called me all SORTS of immature names here. The only crime I seem to have committed is daring to challenge a set of bigoted dogmas that some posters here seem to have.

565 AZfederalist  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:58:13pm
#214 Jwaksman

re: #200 JeremyR

re: #146 Lanaty

I graduated with a degree in history, then spent twenty in the military.
You could use a few basic science courses since you seem to believe we are a product of chance. Take a stats course. You are not one chance in a million, but one in several million billion.
My view of life tells me that I was created by a King and am his adopted child. You on the other hand claim to be mutated pond scum. So, mutant, what does your mutated brain tell you?

Are you really dumb enough to believe in creationism? Do you think that the Sun revolves around the Earth? Do you believe the Earth is flat?

Seriously... take a science class before you make a fool of yourself.

Would recommend the same thing for yourself. What makes more sense, believing in a finite universe created by an eternal, uncreated divine being, or believing that a finite universe with observable physical laws was brought into existence by an event that required that those laws not be in existence in order for that event to have happened?

The fundamental scientific principle of causality by necessity had to have been violated for your view of the origin of the universe to have occurred. It is a fundamental rule (nihilo, nihil est -- out of nothing, nothing comes) that if you have nothing, and do nothing, nothing will happen. Yet, for the prevailing view of the origin of the universe to have occurred that fundamental principle had to have been violated to become, "out of nothing, everything comes". What happened to cause that singularity (about which no one has posited a valid theory for it's origin or existence), that had, for all eternity, been in stasis to suddenly, at 3 o'clock one Thursday afternoon suddenly blow up? Since, by this theory, nothing else existed, nothing could have caused this event, yet, for something to happen, there must be a causal agent. If it had been in stasis for all eternity, then it could not have been unstable. If it was unstable, it had to have had an origin, if it had an origin, what was it? If it was stable for all eternity, it by necessity must have remained stable. If causality was violated at the origin of the universe, that would imply that the fundamental scientific principles by which the mechanics of the universe are observed are not immutable nor unchangeable. That means that any observations of past behavior are not valid indicators of future behavior, nor are any conclusions drawn from observations of past behavior valid since one cannot determine what fundamental principles were in force at the time those phenomena occurred.

... and you say creationism is non-scientific? puhleeze.

566 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:58:18pm

re: #544 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #531 Lanaty

re: #517 Pro-Bush Canuck

You assume that I am an atheist. I clearly stated in a prior post that I believe in God.

So does Osama bin Laden.


What are you trying to prove? That because I have no organized religion (excluding Islam) that I am evil?

567 The Albatross  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:58:18pm

re: #537 Charles

And Jwaksman:

If you sense that I'm dismissing you, you're right. You're not arguing honestly, and I have nothing but contempt for people who do that.

But please ... carry on. There's still room to dig.


Thank you Charles... my sentiments exactly.

568 hous bin pharteen  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:58:43pm

re: #546 jcm

BWWWWWWWWAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

HE said globular clusters.

569 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:58:49pm

re: #558 Perplexed


Suggest you demand a refund, son. Most of the regulars could be either your mother or father.

Really? How old am I? I didn't realize we had met!

570 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:59:04pm

re: #391 Sharmuta

re: #386 Jwaksman

Wow.

Wordy tonight, ain'tcha? ;)

571 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:59:12pm

re: #528 Pro-Bush Canuck

Charles, this guy is an offensive asshole!

I can't argue with that.

572 Irene NYC  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:59:19pm

re: #539 Jwaksman


Son. I'm close to finishing a PhD in physics. Don't act like you know more about this elementary physics than I do. Please.

Didn't somebody say something earlier about the sciences, at least, not having been ruined by PC-ness and liberal lunatics? Well, here's exhibit #1 to the contrary.

573 experiencedtraveller  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:59:42pm

LGF 'wrote' these silly trolls to fire up the lizards on a Saturday Night.

574 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:59:42pm

re: #539 Jwaksman

re: #523 Thanos


Wrong. Try again, but first look up "refraction" son.

Son. I'm close to finishing a PhD in physics. Don't act like you know more about this elementary physics than I do. Please.

Well then why did you get the answer wrong?

575 Gordon  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:59:51pm

I admire the JUDAISM. There’s a lot of good principles in it,” he said. “But I just have to say in all candor that since this nation was founded primarily on Christian principles, personally, I prefer someone who I know who has a solid grounding in my faith."

This isn't just an anti-Islam statement, Charles. He doesn't want a Jew in the oval office either. And God forbid an atheist should be in there! And are Mormons really Christians, Charles?

You're the one digging a deep hole by glorifying religious bigotry like McCain showed. Because it's not aimed only against Muslims.

576 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:59:52pm

re: #564 Jwaksman

You called him an a-hole. Suffer from memory holes, do you?

577 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 8:59:55pm

re: #562 Ay, Caramba

The Big Bang Theory: Let There Be Light.

Take it a step further there are 6 days in creation, 7th day of rest. There are 5 major extinction events in the geological history, dividing earth history into 6 eras.

578 Spiny Norman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:00:17pm

re: #555 DerKrieger

re: #516 Charles
re: #488 Jwaksman
By the way, I'm not holding my breath until you call DerKrieger out for his use of a straw man argument.
That's good -- we wouldn't want you to turn blue.
I didn't realize I'd made any argument yet. I merely posted a question.

re: #563 Geepers

Spiny Norman (#446),

Mr Holland's Opus... ::sigh::

And the thread was the LGF Prayer.
Oh lord, grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls, the courage to debate with honest opponents, and the wisdom to know the difference.

"Mr. Holland's Opus is a symphony where the instruments have been replaced by weapons of mass destruction."

Much like this thread.

I'm thinking more along the lines of "spray and pray" with a Tommy Gun.

579 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:00:41pm

Everyone seems to think they know so much about me. Basically every assumption that has been made about me is wrong, but that's to be expected. People only make assumptions about others when they don't have any factual to make judgments upon. Yet another logical fallacy flying around here tonight.

580 Le_Patriot  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:00:50pm

re: #531 Lanaty

re: #517 Pro-Bush Canuck

You assume that I am an atheist. I clearly stated in a prior post that I believe in God.

So does Satan

581 PETN Sandwich  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:00:52pm

long thread, can't cover it all...

If you revere a man, believe he is the standard to be lived up to for all the great good you believe he did, knowing too that his ardent followers cataloged his life as a rapist, a pedophile, a bandit, and mass murderer; maybe even you believe he was the most perfect man ever; maybe you believe he was a prophet, maybe you believe he was the last or only prophet of the one and only G-d.

Let us agree to disagree, if you revere such a man, you revere evil - and I do not care how much time you spend down at the soup kitchen - you revere evil.

582 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:00:52pm

Oh MAN! Could we get a few MORE trolls tonight?

583 RTLM  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:01:25pm

We now have a reverse trifecta.

584 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:01:33pm

re: #576 Sharmuta

re: #564 Jwaksman

You called him an a-hole. Suffer from memory holes, do you?

Yes and people who believe in Creation are stupid :) and need to have a *come to science* moment.

585 Spiny Norman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:01:35pm

Oh look! Gordon showed up with his own straw man!

586 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:01:37pm

re: #571 Charles

re: #528 Pro-Bush Canuck

Charles, this guy is an offensive asshole!

I can't argue with that.

The poster I replied to said that ONLY Muslims and Atheists are Child Molestors. You most certainly know that is just false. Pointing out that Catholic Priests have molested children, too, is being an offensive asshole?

587 DerKrieger  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:01:44pm

re: #575 Gordon

I would be very surprised if McCain would oppose a Jew as POTUS. Joe Lieberman would also have to call his pal John about that. I'm sure he was only excluding Muslims.

588 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:01:52pm

re: #579 Jwaksman

You're the one making assumptions about others. Where did I say all muslims desire shari'a? Which post?!

589 Victor  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:01:55pm
"McCain later clarified his remarks, saying, “I would vote for a Muslim if he or she was the candidate best able to lead the country and to defend our political values.”

The only thing worse than having Muslim sappers inside the gate is having clueless fools for leaders.

“That kind of attitude goes against the American tradition of religious pluralism and inclusion,” said Ibrahim Hooper..."

Muslims don't want the American tradition of religious pluralism and inclusion. They don't believe in it. It's against their religion. Islam is a supremicist ideology, it's in their books, their history, and in the life of their so called Prophet. It's an open book, what they really believe, and anyone can easily understand it, if only their heads aren't stuffed full of liberal, multi-culti equality drivel.

590 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:02:05pm

re: #574 Thanos

Well then why did you get the answer wrong?


I didn't get the answer wrong. Nice try, though.


I love how you think that because you got some associates degree and became an electrician that somehow you are this physics expert.

591 hous bin pharteen  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:02:26pm

re: #539 Jwaksman


Son. I'm close to finishing a PhD in physics. Don't act like you know more about this elementary physics than I do. Please


Well, as some one who gets his kicks and giggles from abusing the laws of physics, I am off to watch the GP of Japan. They are better at it then I. And this is getting boring.


Rock on Lizards.
/loved the karma Geeps!

592 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:02:33pm

Since I brought up logical fallacies, you've mentioned it in almost every one of your comments.

That tactic apparently gets you points at Columbia.

Here, not so much.

593 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:02:50pm
594 ChildOfMary  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:02:56pm

re: #548 Lanaty

By the way, if a Muslim thinks it's a good thing to molest, then we know why they molest. But if a Catholic knows it's WRONG to molest but does it anyway, that's just remarkable.

Remarkable that humans are capable of sin? What alternate universe did you say you inhabit?

595 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:02:59pm

re: #582 Sharmuta

Oh MAN! Could we get a few MORE trolls tonight?

I get the feeling there is only ONE.

596 SaneInMN  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:03:02pm

Mike Huckabee, the latest Iranian appeaser...

From [Link: www.captainsquartersblog.com...]

Huckabee told the CSIS yesterday that the US could turn Iran away from nuclear weapons through the promise of better relations and economic support.


Well, he's off my list.

597 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:03:13pm

re: #569 Jwaksman

Well, given your comments you're either an old fart with early onset senile dementia or around 22 yr old and have never had any serious responsibilities in life. Either way you've got problems.

598 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:03:22pm

re: #575 Gordon

I admire the JUDAISM. There’s a lot of good principles in it,” he said. “But I just have to say in all candor that since this nation was founded primarily on Christian principles, personally, I prefer someone who I know who has a solid grounding in my faith."

This isn't just an anti-Islam statement, Charles. He doesn't want a Jew in the oval office either. And God forbid an atheist should be in there! And are Mormons really Christians, Charles?

You're the one digging a deep hole by glorifying religious bigotry like McCain showed. Because it's not aimed only against Muslims.

Uh oh, watch out. You are about to be told that you are an asshole who wasted money on his college tuition. You're also going to be called a whiner, accused of using straw men, and threatened with banning.


It is dangerous to challenge orthodoxy here....

599 Piglet-U93  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:03:39pm

John (I admire Islam) McCain has removed any inkling of a possibility that I might have voted for him.

Islam = Terror
Mohammad was a pedophlie, liar, rapist and murderer

600 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:03:43pm

re: #590 Jwaksman

You and your ass-buddy are a couple of booger-eating losers.

601 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:03:52pm

re: #586 Lanaty

re: #571 Charles

re: #528 Pro-Bush Canuck

Charles, this guy is an offensive asshole!

I can't argue with that.

The poster I replied to said that ONLY Muslims and Atheists are Child Molestors. You most certainly know that is just false. Pointing out that Catholic Priests have molested children, too, is being an offensive asshole?

Painting the Church with the brush, and not the molesters. Just like calling all Muslims terrorists.

602 David IV of Georgia  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:04:01pm

There are whole branches of Christianity that either suffered from or had no part in the Crusades and Inquisition. So to equate these aberrations as Christianity is a bit short-sighted.

603 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:04:16pm

re: #575 Gordon

You're the one digging a deep hole by glorifying religious bigotry like McCain showed.

Which statement by Charles pointing to cair's ties to hamas are glorifying john mccain's statement?

604 trailortrash  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:04:27pm

re: #547 JeremyR

mmmmm pancakes

605 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:04:35pm

re: #594 ChildOfMary

re: #548 Lanaty

By the way, if a Muslim thinks it's a good thing to molest, then we know why they molest. But if a Catholic knows it's WRONG to molest but does it anyway, that's just remarkable.

Remarkable that humans are capable of sin? What alternate universe did you say you inhabit?

The poster I was replying to was trying to justify the actions of Catholic Molestors by saying "well, they know they're going to hell, so it's not as bad as Muslim molestors". Muslim molestors are just deluded from the beginning. They think it's right to do it. Catholics apparently know it's wrong, but do it anyway. The end result is the same. So why are Catholic Molestors any better than Muslim Molestors?

606 spikester  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:04:54pm

Chocolate covered globular clusters....Mmmmmmmmmm!


re: #553 Spiny Norman

re: #546 jcm

The lack of globular clusters means it is all fake.

NOW you've done it!

607 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:04:55pm

Ay, Caramba (#562),

The Big Bang Theory: Let There Be Light.

Perfect.

608 LSD  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:04:56pm

#532 Jwaksman

Haven't you read what these superior intellects here have been telling us? ALL muslims believe in sharia! You can't be a muslim and not believe in sharia!

Nope, I don't see that. I mostly see a really defensive and paranoid poster who hates having his(her) views challenged ....

609 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:04:58pm

re: #600 MandyManners

re: #590 Jwaksman

You and your ass-buddy are a couple of booger-eating losers.

LOL, learn that from The Kid?

610 Gordon  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:05:05pm

re: #582 Sharmuta
Why don't you try answering the question instead of throwing out insults? Do you agree with McCain that no Jew or Atheist or perhaps Mormon should be in the White House?

611 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:05:09pm

re: #601 jcm

That never happens here!

612 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:05:16pm

re: #592 Charles

Since I brought up logical fallacies, you've mentioned it in almost every one of your comments.

That tactic apparently gets you points at Columbia.

Here, not so much.


Let me update you on yet ANOTHER assumption that you have made about me that is wrong. I DON'T GO TO COLUMBIA.


Are you going to apologize for your one-sided assault on me, blindly ignoring the horrible behavior used by some of your posters against me?


One of the rules I use for internet posting is that I don't say anything I wouldn't say to another person in real life. A lot of people who are timid in real life take out their frustration on the Internet by ganging up on, and being rude to, anyone they disagree with. This is behavior that is below me. And you'd be well advised to try to minimize it on your website.

613 hous bin pharteen  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:05:16pm

re: #585 Spiny Norman


Gordon took a straw man to his senior prom.

/well thats what I heard...

614 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:05:16pm

re: #602 David IV of Georgia

yep yep.

615 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:05:21pm

re: #600 MandyManners

re: #590 Jwaksman

You and your ass-buddy are a couple of booger-eating losers.

Cleaning off keyboard and monitor now. Thanks.

616 Irene NYC  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:05:25pm

re: #579 Jwaksman


People only make assumptions about others when they don't have any factual to make judgments upon.

Your poor judgment is FACT.
Your lack of manners is FACT.
Your pathetic debating style is FACT.

Hmmm....Seems like we don't need any other facts.

617 Arbalest  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:05:31pm

jwaksman

In many of your posts, you seem to be adding little “zingers” to try to slightly deflect the intellectual beating you asked for, and are receiving.

It isn’t working.


Then there's this:

#465 Jwaksman

“I believe ANYBODY FROM ANY RELIGION could POSSIBLY become president. As long as their politics jived withed what I consider reasonable politics. Obviously, nobody who believes in sharia law would be qualified to be President of this great nation.

Shar’ia is an essential component of Islam. Just ask any mullah.

Do you realize that your statements:

I believe that ANYBODY . . .

and:

Obviously, nobody who believes in sharia law would be qualified . . .

are mutually contradictory?

Your teachers are failures.

618 ornery elephant  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:05:38pm

I've got good news and bad news.

First, the good news for Lizards. Tomorrow is a new day with all sorts of new adventures, rekindled hope and endless possibilities.

The bad news...for Jwaksman and Lanaty. Tomorrow is another day of trying to figure out how to figure out how things figure out. Alas, another day of feeling terribly uncomfortable in your own skin.

And like I always say....the reason life is hard and unfair and such a mystery is....because if everything was so darn peachy here and we had all the answers, no one would want to get to Heaven!

619 rightwinger3  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:05:51pm

Nice...Gordon is here too...how lovely.

620 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:05:51pm

re: #575 Gordon

Seriously- where does Charles offer any support to what john mccain said?

621 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:06:03pm

re: #595 Racer X

re: #582 Sharmuta


Oh MAN! Could we get a few MORE trolls tonight?

I get the feeling there is only ONE.


Charles knows the answer to that.

622 The Albatross  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:06:08pm

re: #564 Jwaksman

re: #537 Charles


And Jwaksman:

If you sense that I'm dismissing you, you're right. You're not arguing honestly, and I have nothing but contempt for people who do that.

But please ... carry on. There's still room to dig.


Really? Tell me ONE thing I have done that is inappropriate. Certainly you have low standards since posters have called me all SORTS of immature names here. The only crime I seem to have committed is daring to challenge a set of bigoted dogmas that some posters here seem to have.


Hate to tell you sweetheart, but being new on a board and "contributing" to a discussion by being inflammatory, purposefully provocative, and calling a few choice names of your own... you aren't exactly opening minds with your methods.

If you've got something to say, say it without the rhetoric and back biting.

I'm off to bed and you can carry on all you like... anything you type on a keyboard for me to read in the morning hardly makes you a bully because if or when I choose to come back, it is reasonable to expect the thread to continue.

I say shred them both and though it may be poor form and ill mannered I am entitled to my opinion.

623 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:06:11pm

re: #602 David IV of Georgia

There are whole branches of Christianity that either suffered from or had no part in the Crusades and Inquisition. So to equate these aberrations as Christianity is a bit short-sighted.

Exactly. Which is why equating sharia law in some middle east countries with an entire religion is a bit short-sighted.

624 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:06:26pm

re: #590 Jwaksman

re: #574 Thanos


Well then why did you get the answer wrong?

I didn't get the answer wrong. Nice try, though.


I love how you think that because you got some associates degree and became an electrician that somehow you are this physics expert.

I'm not an electrician. I had this debate with a professor of physics at Max Planck 20 years ago on The Usenet, you could probably find it in the archives if you dug. He got it wrong as well, but was logically consistent enough to admit it.

625 jaybo  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:07:06pm

Nope, I'll never vote for a muslim. They have a little thing called 'taqiyya' where they lie about how moderate they are.

As a Jew, I have no big problem with his statement. He probably thinks that a Jew would commit treason and only do what Israel wants us to do, but I can still respect his firm anti-muslim stance.

626 ConservativeAtheist  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:07:08pm

re: #493 pat

... See a child molester? That is an atheist or a Muslim.

Hey, Pat, you can kiss my *ss.

627 Irene NYC  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:07:21pm

re: #579 Jwaksman

WHOOPS!

Your lack of humor and goodwill is FACT.

Sorry I forgot that the first time around.
;)

628 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:08:08pm

re: #626 ConservativeAtheist

re: #493 pat

... See a child molester? That is an atheist or a Muslim.

Hey, Pat, you can kiss my *ss.

Don't worry about it. He's busy with the Catholic Priest.

629 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:08:09pm
Let me update you on yet ANOTHER assumption that you have made about me that is wrong. I DON'T GO TO COLUMBIA.

Whatever.

630 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:08:11pm
You're the one digging a deep hole by glorifying religious bigotry like McCain showed. Because it's not aimed only against Muslims.

And the Master speaks.

631 Gordon  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:08:36pm

re: #598 Jwaksman
I've been challenging (successfully) LGF orthodoxy on these threads for more than four years now.

It's kind of fun to imagine Charles' (and his minions') spittle flying at the screen at they read my righteous screeds!

632 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:08:44pm

re: #560 jcm
And its economical to run, a blast to drive, I could go on for hours.

I seriously want to keep both machines. My old one, is small and slow, but ideal for little jobs in close quarters. I've runb it against bigger machines from other companies, and even though it is a full 20% smaller, it packs the power to get the job done. I much prefer the controls vs the competition as well, although, people that have used competative products for years sometimes prefer to stay with their favorite brand.

633 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:09:00pm

re: #628 Lanaty

re: #626 ConservativeAtheist

re: #493 pat
... See a child molester? That is an atheist or a Muslim.
Hey, Pat, you can kiss my *ss.
Don't worry about it. He's busy with the Catholic Priest.

And now we're descending into pure ad hominem. Way to go!

634 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:09:06pm

re: #617 Arbalest


Shar’ia is an essential component of Islam. Just ask any mullah.

Do you realize that your statements:

I believe that ANYBODY . . .

and:

Obviously, nobody who believes in sharia law would be qualified . . .

are mutually contradictory?

Your teachers are failures.

First of all, every muslim I know hates sharia. Are you telling me that they can't be muslim if they don't believe in sharia? Since all the rabbis I know think that keeping kosher is an essential part of judaism, does that mean that I'm not a Jew because I ate a piece of a sausage a few days back?

As for your other comments, quote the ENTIRE sentence so you don't take me out of context. I said that anybody of any religion COULD possibly be qualified to be president. Doesn't mean that EVERYBODY is qualified. Most people are too stupid or ignorant to be president. One thing that tips you off is if they're dumb enough to believe in sharia law. Another thing would be if someone was a creationist. There are a number of ways to spot a fool.

635 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:09:51pm

re: #631 Gordon

Still waiting for Charles' comment in support of john mccain's comment.

636 hous bin pharteen  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:09:55pm
It's kind of fun to imagine Charles' (and his minions') spittle flying at the screen at they read my righteous screeds!

Well that is a good word to use.

637 Irene NYC  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:10:00pm

re: #631 Gordon

Gordon, you're such a trip. If you didn't exist, we'd have to invent you.

638 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:10:09pm

Jwaksman (#579),

Everyone seems to think they know so much about me. Basically every assumption that has been made about me is wrong, but that's to be expected. People only make assumptions about others when they don't have any factual to make judgments upon. Yet another logical fallacy flying around here tonight.

Please to name that fallacy.

639 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:10:11pm

What a night!

I decide to take my 14 year old niece on a tour of downtown Toronto. The Bank of Nova Scotia (a very big bank, even by US standards) sponsors something called Nuit Blanche which is a series of art installations. Somehow we end up in the gay district. It was like we wandered into Dante's inferno! Sado-masochistic sex scenes bathed in red pulsing light and thumping disco music spilling out into the street. As I'm hauling my astonished niece toward a cab what do we see: a woman in a bridal gown cradling a real skinned goat in her arms. Followed by a phalanx of lighting and camera people.

The West is sinking fast.

I told my niece we're going to church tomorrow. Since she's a product of the Canadian school system this idea does not appeal to her at all. She can't imagine anything more lame. I tell her she's going anyway, and a phone call to her mother didn't get her off the hook.

So I check in here for some sanity. What do I get but bloody athiests all over the place (no offense to Lizards, please!).

If America falls to athiesm it's all over for the entire West. Please don't let that happen!

640 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:10:22pm

re: #632 JeremyR

re: #560 jcm
And its economical to run, a blast to drive, I could go on for hours.

I seriously want to keep both machines. My old one, is small and slow, but ideal for little jobs in close quarters. I've runb it against bigger machines from other companies, and even though it is a full 20% smaller, it packs the power to get the job done. I much prefer the controls vs the competition as well, although, people that have used competative products for years sometimes prefer to stay with their favorite brand.

Boys and their toys ;-) Be a long time since I played with the big toys, work in a cube and lab now.

641 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:10:44pm

re: #635 Sharmuta

re: #631 Gordon

Still waiting for Charles' comment in support of john mccain's comment.

See #33.

642 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:10:51pm

re: #624 Thanos

re: #590 Jwaksman

re: #574 Thanos


Well then why did you get the answer wrong?


I didn't get the answer wrong. Nice try, though.
I love how you think that because you got some associates degree and became an electrician that somehow you are this physics expert.

I'm not an electrician. I had this debate with a professor of physics at Max Planck 20 years ago on The Usenet, you could probably find it in the archives if you dug. He got it wrong as well, but was logically consistent enough to admit it.

Hell, even if the wires were perfect conductors of electricity and there was no loss in the glass of the fiber optic cable there would be a measurable amount of time for the signal to travel that distance. The cable would have distributed inductance and capacitance (it would closely resemble a delay line). I don't know what the propagation velocity is for FO cable so can't say which one would be faster.

643 Le_Patriot  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:10:51pm

re: #599 Piglet-U93

John (I admire Islam) McCain has removed any inkling of a possibility that I might have voted for him.

Islam = Terror
Mohammad was a pedophlie, liar, rapist and murderer

Ditto that, although his Kennedy-esque stance on the Immigration Bill had sealed it already for me.

644 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:10:57pm
645 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:10:59pm

Charles. You have made about 10 posts criticizing me or Lanaty. And zero posts criticizing anybody else. Can you really sit there and tell me that there is nothing posted by any other posters that is inappropriate? Come on... be reasonable.

646 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:11:02pm

re: #639 Pro-Bush Canuck

By my count, there is only one atheist, and it's in his handle.

647 rightwinger3  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:11:02pm

re: #631 Gordon

re: #598 Jwaksman
I've been challenging (successfully) LGF orthodoxy on these threads for more than four years now.

It's kind of fun to imagine Charles' (and his minions') spittle flying at the screen at they read my righteous screeds!

Don't flatter yourself asswipe...we laugh at you...no spittle involved.

648 ornery elephant  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:11:15pm

re: #631 Gordon

re: #598 Jwaksman
I've been challenging (successfully) LGF orthodoxy on these threads for more than four years now.

It's kind of fun to imagine Charles' (and his minions') spittle flying at the screen at they read my righteous screeds!

Gee Gordon, I've never seen you post here before! Are you sure you didn't just register? Maybe I just skimmed over your stuff before.

649 ConservativeAtheist  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:11:18pm

re: #629 Charles

He's actually at the University of Wisconsin.

650 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:11:31pm

Say, orneryelephant. You wouldn't mind stepping out into the parking lot and driving my Jeep off of Gordon's Mercedes, would you?

It's fuel injection - so don't step on the gas before you start it. Now, It's already in 4Low, so just pop it into reverse, give it a bit of gas, and when it gets to about 2500 rpm, pull that little red pin next to the steering column.

Heh™.

And don't forget to push that pin back in before you shut it off!

651 The Albatross  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:11:53pm

re: #579 Jwaksman

Everyone seems to think they know so much about me. Basically every assumption that has been made about me is wrong, but that's to be expected. People only make assumptions about others when they don't have any factual to make judgments upon. Yet another logical fallacy flying around here tonight.


Don't hide behind generalizations babycakes, I read through all your posts and your little sidekick's too just this evening. Those are more than I ever need to know about you and Lanaty.

You both aren't up for a discussion - you're mudslinging.

652 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:11:55pm

re: #609 jcm

re: #600 MandyManners


re: #590 Jwaksman

You and your ass-buddy are a couple of booger-eating losers.


LOL, learn that from The Kid?

Actually, it's something that I remembered from elementary school.

653 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:11:56pm

re: #641 Charles

I'm shocked, shocked the famous Gordon is wrong.

654 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:12:22pm

re: #649 ConservativeAtheist

re: #629 Charles

He's actually at the University of Wisconsin.

There's a difference?

655 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:12:59pm

re: #615 Racer X

re: #600 MandyManners


re: #590 Jwaksman

You and your ass-buddy are a couple of booger-eating losers.


Cleaning off keyboard and monitor now. Thanks.

Glad to be of service!

656 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:13:04pm

Good night, lizards. Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

657 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:13:11pm

re: #604 trailortrash

The type of pancakes this thing makes are best eaten first. Think Rachel Cory.

658 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:13:25pm

re: #654 Charles

Yes. One is Columbia. One is not.

They're even in different locations, if you can believe that!

659 experiencedtraveller  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:13:26pm

Does Charles of LGF use sock puppets?

660 NY Nana  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:13:29pm

re: #542 DistantThunder

IMHO, they make a troll look good.

661 ornery elephant  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:13:45pm

re: #645 Jwaksman

Charles. You have made about 10 posts criticizing me or Lanaty. And zero posts criticizing anybody else. Can you really sit there and tell me that there is nothing posted by any other posters that is inappropriate? Come on... be reasonable.

Jwaksman, you want Charles to be reasonable. So why don't you be honest. Admit that you balled your little fists up really tight when you typed that and your face got really red and that vein...yanno, the one that runs down your forehead looked like the shaft of a sand wedge, right?

662 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:14:07pm

re: #645 Jwaksman

Charles. You have made about 10 posts criticizing me or Lanaty. And zero posts criticizing anybody else. Can you really sit there and tell me that there is nothing posted by any other posters that is inappropriate? Come on... be reasonable.

Please make up your mind. Am I a bigoted asshole, or someone who can be reasonable?

Those two positions seem to be mutually exclusive.

663 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:14:16pm

re: #646 Lanaty

re: #639 Pro-Bush Canuck

By my count, there is only one atheist, and it's in his handle.

You may want to polish that crystal ball.

664 ConservativeAtheist  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:14:34pm

re: #654 Charles
lol, just gives me another reason to root for my Buckeyes when they play Wisconsin.

665 Macker  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:15:00pm

re: #48 Jwaksman

Saying bigoted stuff like that is why the leftist blogs attack lgf. There's no need for this. There ARE reasonable, intelligent muslims out there. There are muslims who think Israel is a great country, that Iran needs to be dealt with forcibly and that America is the greatest country in the world. To generalize ALL muslims based on what A LOT of muslims do is unfair and wrong. Not ALL muslims fit the stereotype.

Then By God, those "intelligent" Muslims had better turn their "radical" bretheren in. ALL of them. If they don't they're just as guilty as the terrorists themselves.

666 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:15:02pm

re: #647 rightwinger3

Don't flatter yourself asswipe...we laugh at you...no spittle involved.


Charles, I'm waiting for you to come down from your lofty perch to tell rightwinger3 to improve his language and posting etiquette.

667 Gordon  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:15:12pm

re: #635 Sharmuta
So now we're back to "Charles didn't actually admit he's a member of the KKK, so everything's alright."

His post gives implicit approval to McCain's statement. He probably didn't think about the implications for other non-Christians other than Muslims.

But then Charles sometimes doesn't think things through very well. That's been evident for years now.

Not to say he's not right about a lot of things... But there ain't no white wings on his sides.

668 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:15:12pm

re: #663 Racer X

So LGF posters know my beliefs in God better than I do? Wow!
Hating organized religion means you must be an atheist?

669 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:15:13pm
670 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:15:17pm

re: #579 Jwaksman

If the universe is expanding, what's it expanding into?

/as long as you have all the answers

671 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:15:18pm
672 xenophobic  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:15:35pm

The only crime I seem to have committed is daring to challenge a set of bigoted dogmas

Ding! Ding!

673 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:15:44pm

re: #642 Perplexed

re: #624 Thanos


re: #590 Jwaksman

re: #574 Thanos

Well then why did you get the answer wrong?

I didn't get the answer wrong. Nice try, though.
I love how you think that because you got some associates degree and became an electrician that somehow you are this physics expert.

I'm not an electrician. I had this debate with a professor of physics at Max Planck 20 years ago on The Usenet, you could probably find it in the archives if you dug. He got it wrong as well, but was logically consistent enough to admit it.

Hell, even if the wires were perfect conductors of electricity and there was no loss in the glass of the fiber optic cable there would be a measurable amount of time for the signal to travel that distance. The cable would have distributed inductance and capacitance (it would closely resemble a delay line). I don't know what the propagation velocity is for FO cable so can't say which one would be faster.

Copper is faster due to the index of refraction of the fiberoptic cable.

674 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:15:53pm

re: #666 Jwaksman

I'm waiting for you to quit being bossy.

675 itellu3times  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:16:14pm

re: #482 Thanos

Answer this: If you send an electric signal down an 8,000 mile copper cable & simultaneously send a light beam down a fiber-optic cable which would arrive first?

Well, very little of either, if those are single continuous cables.

The optical cable has refractive velocities, the copper dialectrics, and huge variability on both sides, depending on cable constructions and placement.

676 PETN Sandwich  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:16:17pm

jumping ahead again...

#206 Jwaksman 9/29/07 7:56:03 pm reply quote report

Okay, let me explain this one more time.... RELIGION DOES NOT DICTATE YOUR MORALS, POLITICS OR CHARACTER IN GENERAL.

How is possible that one could write with good grammar [relative to me] and be so ignorant of the fundemental nature of religion?

/rhetorical

677 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:16:30pm

re: #473 karmic_inquisitor

re: #424 Lanaty


re: #406 xenophobic

"You CAN, however, find evidence in support of the Big Bang Theory "
You be edjumicated can you tell me wat 'Theory' means?

Typical non-scientist remark. "Theory" as a colloquial term does not mean the same as "Theory" in the scientific sense. Gravity is also a THEORY. Understood?

You guys like to go after someone on word gaming.

Care to prove that creation cannot have occurred? If not, do you care to retract statements regarding "creationists" not being qualified to be admitted to accredited universities?

Your burden. Waiting.

Please excuse my buttinsky here... Do you think it possible that the universe was created by God, but according to the Big Bang? My own personal $.02 is that the evidence shows big bang, a ~13.8 bln year old universe, and evolution here on earth, but also that there was devine guidance behind it all, creating, and setting up the rules it all goes by. But I'm not educated.

678 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:16:40pm

re: #646 Lanaty

re: #639 Pro-Bush Canuck

By my count, there is only one atheist, and it's in his handle.

I'm an aetheist

679 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:16:42pm
680 David IV of Georgia  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:17:05pm

jcm,

***sigh*** I really thought my master's degree was from an accredited school (NOT Bob Jones). I got a pretty hood. I guess I was wrong. I had a smart biology teacher in High School. He taught evolution as was required. He also taught genetics and probabilities of genetic mutations and the ability of a species to pass mutations to then next generation and such. I firmly believe in evolution within a species. But macro-evolution? well ...

681 Gordon  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:17:07pm

re: #641 Charles
Well Charles, you're smarter than I thought. This was intended not only as an attack on CAIR, but also an attack on McCain. You are truly an evil genius.

682 rightwinger3  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:17:20pm

re: #666 Jwaksman

re: #647 rightwinger3

Don't flatter yourself asswipe...we laugh at you...no spittle involved.


Charles, I'm waiting for you to come down from your lofty perch to tell rightwinger3 to improve his language and posting etiquette.

You tell me, Mr PhD. Get some nuts and I'll shut up.

683 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:17:27pm

re: #661 ornery elephant

Jwaksman, you want Charles to be reasonable. So why don't you be honest. Admit that you balled your little fists up really tight when you typed that and your face got really red and that vein...yanno, the one that runs down your forehead looked like the shaft of a sand wedge, right?


Nope. I don't need to get upset when people say incorrect things. I simply sigh and correct them. I'm used to being around dumb people - I'm used to seeing socialists yelling about how bush is a terrorists, and religious nuts telling me that I'm going to hell for having premarital sex. Unlike some of the posters here who can't help but scream unintelligible insults at anybody who challenges their dogmatic beliefs, I take everything in stride.

684 NY Nana  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:17:39pm

re: #556 Sharmuta

Yes.

685 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:17:47pm

re: #666 Jwaksman

666, a coincidence? I think not. :0

686 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:17:58pm

re: #668 Lanaty

re: #663 Racer X

So LGF posters know my beliefs in God better than I do? Wow!
Hating organized religion means you must be an atheist?

No. You made an incorrect assumption. I suggested you re-think your position.

687 ornery elephant  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:18:00pm

re: #650 Noam Sayin'

Say, orneryelephant. You wouldn't mind stepping out into the parking lot and driving my Jeep off of Gordon's Mercedes, would you?

It's fuel injection - so don't step on the gas before you start it. Now, It's already in 4Low, so just pop it into reverse, give it a bit of gas, and when it gets to about 2500 rpm, pull that little red pin next to the steering column.

Heh™.

And don't forget to push that pin back in before you shut it off!

LOL Noam! Already done for you....but I got bad news...as I came off Gordon's Mercedes, your Jeep hit the asphalt and we were transported directly into Lanaty's Yugo! I'm afraid there isn't much left except a couple of suitcases and a note from Mom excusing him from gym class.

688 Spiny Norman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:18:02pm

re: #667 Gordon

re: #635 Sharmuta
So now we're back to "Charles didn't actually admit he's a member of the KKK, so everything's alright."

His post gives implicit approval to McCain's statement.

By calling him a fool?!?

689 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:18:04pm

re: #673 Thanos

Okay. Pretty good for a person who doesn't have a college degree though. Spent years and years doing RF work and only a few months doing any optics.

690 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:18:09pm

I wonder if this is the fastest-moving thread on LGF? If not, what is?

691 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:18:12pm
692 Lanaty  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:18:42pm

re: #665 Macker

That's like saying that all pro-lifers are guilty re: #677 bikermailman

Where did I give any indication that that is impossible? I reject the idea of Genesis-style creation. I believe in the Big Bang AND in God. Your .02 is more reasonable to me than the idea of the universe being ~6000 yrs old.

693 Le_Patriot  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:18:58pm

re: #631 Gordon

re: #598 Jwaksman
I've been challenging (successfully) LGF orthodoxy on these threads for more than four years now.

It's kind of fun to imagine Charles' (and his minions') spittle flying at the screen at they read my righteous screeds!

_____________
"Successfully" only in your own mind, perhaps.
/Whatever turns ya' on

694 pat  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:19:03pm

re: #675 itellu3times

How are you going to send an electric signal down glass? Photons maybe

695 LSD  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:19:42pm

re: #645 Jwaksman

Charles. You have made about 10 posts criticizing me or Lanaty. And zero posts criticizing anybody else. Can you really sit there and tell me that there is nothing posted by any other posters that is inappropriate? Come on... be reasonable.

Seriously. Are your pressing for head of the class? Your arguments are ok, but not "Great". Stop thinking you are the master of the great debate. You are getting waaaaaaaaay too defensive and sensitive, making most of your statements sophmoric and pointless.

696 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:19:54pm

re: #683 Jwaksman

I'm used to being around dumb people

Clearly!

697 goodbye_natalie  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:19:56pm

What have I walked into? LOL.

Gordon's got a couple of intellectual buddies? Well, I'll be damned. I thought him unique. Now I see I was wrong.

Where's General Chen? I'm sure he could enlighten this conversation with something mindnumbing.

698 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:20:08pm

re: #640 jcm

I retired so I can do what I want in life. I did two terms in elected offices, and two terms in appointed offices after getting out of the military. I'm still a kid at heart, so playing in the dirt is just fine with me.
I took my origional pancake maker to Caruthersville Mo last spring, and to Greensburg Kansas this year. I went as part of a team that took five machines down. I didn't even get to run mine in Greensburg. Once we got set up, I was running one of the other ones and another gal from our group was running mine since its easier to learn and master then the more complicated competitions machines.

699 eastvillageinfidel  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:20:13pm

I'm late as usual, but our guests seem to know a lot of moderate muslims. Why aren't more of them protesting what is being done in the name of their religion? Is it apathy?

700 Spiny Norman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:20:19pm

re: #693 Le_Patriot

re: #631 Gordon


re: #598 Jwaksman
I've been challenging (successfully) LGF orthodoxy on these threads for more than four years now.

It's kind of fun to imagine Charles' (and his minions') spittle flying at the screen at they read my righteous screeds!


_____________
"Successfully" only in your own mind, perhaps.
/Whatever turns ya' on

The laughter means "approval", you see?

701 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:20:40pm

re: #667 Gordon


Not to say he's not right about a lot of things... But there ain't no white wings on his sides.


Exactly. People need to realize that everybody makes mistakes. A good person recognizes when they make mistakes, and is willing to correct other people constructively as well. It's wrong that people are overlooking posters using language like "asswipe" and "Jwakscum" because they are arguing on the same side - bad language and behavior are bad language and behavior, no matter what side it's on.

702 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:20:46pm

re: #689 Perplexed

re: #673 Thanos

Okay. Pretty good for a person who doesn't have a college degree though. Spent years and years doing RF work and only a few months doing any optics.

Nothing wrong with not having a degree if you are smart friend and if you continually learn. I don't have a degree either, but I boss MBA's around all day long and have to explain elementary math and physics to them constantly.

703 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:20:58pm

re: #667 Gordon

Do you need a towel for that egg on your face?

704 DEZes  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:21:00pm

re: #674 Sharmuta
His post is 666, Perfect.

705 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:21:22pm

re: #386 Jwaksman

re: #371 rightwinger3

What am I missing here? I always show up late. Have they thrown out the "You're all bigots" yet?


You've missed quite a bit of whining. Charles has been so shell-shocked at the good arguments that Lanaty and I have been making that all he can do is try to make fun of what college he thinks we go/went to, and calling us whiners.


You and Lanaty need to pick up a bald-headed fat guy to round out the comedy trio.

706 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:21:59pm

re: #696 Racer X

re: #683 Jwaksman


I'm used to being around dumb people

Clearly!

I think I get it now!

I predict that Jwak's IQ is 167.

707 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:22:03pm
708 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:22:15pm

re: #687 ornery elephant

So long as you didn't scratch the Jeep... much.

709 itellu3times  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:22:16pm

re: #694 pat

re: #675 itellu3times

How are you going to send an electric signal down glass? Photons maybe

Thanos is sending the signals, I'm just handicapping the race!

710 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:22:18pm

re: #699 eastvillageinfidel

I'm late as usual, but our guests seem to know a lot of moderate muslims. Why aren't more of them protesting what is being done in the name of their religion? Is it apathy?

It is FEAR. Speak out against Islam and you are hated worse than infidels.

711 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:22:20pm

re: #690 MandyManners

I wonder if this is the fastest-moving thread on LGF? If not, what is?

In the HISTORY of LGF, I should say.

712 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:22:47pm

re: #680 David IV of Georgia

jcm,

***sigh*** I really thought my master's degree was from an accredited school (NOT Bob Jones). I got a pretty hood. I guess I was wrong. I had a smart biology teacher in High School. He taught evolution as was required. He also taught genetics and probabilities of genetic mutations and the ability of a species to pass mutations to then next generation and such. I firmly believe in evolution within a species. But macro-evolution? well ...

Micro-evolution with out a doubt, just look at dogs. I also am a Christian who see no contradiction between Scripture and physical evidence, theory not being evidence (yet). The Bible does not claim the earth is 6000 years old, Bishop Usher did. Also when the Bible says 6 days the original word "day" is not a literal day, more like "in the day(s) of my grandfather.

713 David IV of Georgia  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:23:00pm

You know, I was reading a Christian book today written in the 400's that spoke of the earth being a sphere.

714 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:23:12pm

re: #702 Thanos

re: #689 Perplexed

re: #673 Thanos

Okay. Pretty good for a person who doesn't have a college degree though. Spent years and years doing RF work and only a few months doing any optics.

Nothing wrong with not having a degree if you are smart friend and if you continually learn. I don't have a degree either, but I boss MBA's around all day long and have to explain elementary math and physics to them constantly.

Not using any of it now. When I start talking about mis-terminated cables my coworker's eyes just glaze over.

715 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:23:16pm

re: #695 LSD

Seriously. Are your pressing for head of the class? Your arguments are ok, but not "Great". Stop thinking you are the master of the great debate. You are getting waaaaaaaaay too defensive and sensitive, making most of your statements sophmoric and pointless.

All I did was call Charles out for his bias. He is on one side of the debate, so he is making personal attacks against everyone on the other side. He is blindly ignoring the bad behavior on his own side. If he attacked bad behavior on both sides equally that would be fine. If he wanted to ignore all bad behavior, well, then that's his prerogative as well. But if he only attacks Lanaty and I, then that is logically corrupt.

By the way... it's spelled "sophomoric." If you're going to use personal attacks, atleast spell them correctly.

716 pat  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:23:19pm

re: #695 LSD

We get our share of criticism. Usually in generalities, but some deserve special attention. I would not lose you crows for anything. Every weekend, would suit me fine.

717 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:23:25pm

Do I smell an IQ of 167, maybe?

718 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:23:28pm

re: #678 Thanos

re: #646 Lanaty


re: #639 Pro-Bush Canuck

By my count, there is only one atheist, and it's in his handle.


I'm an aetheist

Yes but you're not a militant athiest, nor are any Lizards I know of. Not sure about some of the trolls here tonight.

The way I see it is like this: a person who decides for whatever reason not to have children is a completely decent person who owes no explanation to anyone. He is no better or worse morally for it, and is welcome to be my friend any day. A person who advocates that everyone else should be childless -- possibly even under duress -- is on the other hand the epitomy of absolute, demonic evil. This ideology exists on the outer fringes of the green movement, along with those who advocate releasing engineered airborne ebola to decimate the human race and thereby "save the planet".

The analogy is far from perfect. Nonetheless it does allow me to say I have no problem with Thanos the athiest, while simultaneously considering atheism as a creed to be abominably evil.

719 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:24:17pm

re: #717 Noam Sayin'

Do I smell an IQ of 167, maybe?

LMAO!

720 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:24:22pm

re: #706 Thanos

re: #696 Racer X

re: #683 Jwaksman


I'm used to being around dumb people


Clearly!

I think I get it now!

I predict that Jwak's IQ is 167.

You forgot the 3D chess.

721 Carolyn  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:24:45pm

re: #160 Lanaty

re: #148 song_and_dance_man

It's Sura 4: [Link: skepticsannotatedbible.com...]

Most of the Koran is unintelligible "God is great" etc etc. Very few Suras actually dictate any laws. Sura 4 is FULL of laws. That's why I think it's the worst one.

I don't know who you think you are fooling, but I have studied the quran and many hadiths....it is a war manual.

722 LSD  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:24:52pm

re: #715 Jwaksman I think I've made my point ...

723 Geepers  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:25:02pm

Jwaksman says:

A lot of people who are timid in real life take out their frustration on the Internet by ganging up on, and being rude to, anyone they disagree with. This is behavior that is below me. And you'd be well advised to try to minimize it on your website.

You left a-hole off the end of that.

And I think its "behavior that is beneath me".

And you'd be well advised to check out Dale Carnegie's: How to Win Friends and Influence People. It would be a revelation for you.

724 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:25:03pm
725 Render  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:25:15pm

Show me a moderate Muslim, and I will show you an apostate marked for death.

LARGE
GUNS,
R

726 goodbye_natalie  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:25:17pm

What was it Zombie said the other day about when someone throws out bigot, the win is credited to the other party?

I've gotten to the point when somebody drags out their diplomas I could say about the same.

727 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:25:39pm

re: #717 Noam Sayin'

Do I smell an IQ of 167, maybe?

bwa hahaha Beat you to that!

728 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:25:44pm

re: #720 jcm

re: #706 Thanos

re: #696 Racer X
re: #683 Jwaksman

I'm used to being around dumb people

Clearly!
I think I get it now!

I predict that Jwak's IQ is 167.

You forgot the 3D chess.

No frickin way!

Nodrog has a girlfriend?

729 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:25:56pm

re: #720 jcm

Don't forget the "testosterone is the root of all evil" thing, too.

730 Le_Patriot  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:25:58pm

re: #705 Alberta Oil Peon

re: #386 Jwaksman

re: #371 rightwinger3

What am I missing here? I always show up late. Have they thrown out the "You're all bigots" yet?


You've missed quite a bit of whining. Charles has been so shell-shocked at the good arguments that Lanaty and I have been making that all he can do is try to make fun of what college he thinks we go/went to, and calling us whiners.


You and Lanaty need to pick up a bald-headed fat guy to round out the comedy trio.

__________
ROTFL

731 pat  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:25:58pm

re: #695 LSD

LSD, sorry, that was to the guote, not you. I am trying to dress for a party dammit!

732 rightwinger3  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:26:16pm

re: #715 Jwaksman

re: #695 LSD

Seriously. Are your pressing for head of the class? Your arguments are ok, but not "Great". Stop thinking you are the master of the great debate. You are getting waaaaaaaaay too defensive and sensitive, making most of your statements sophmoric and pointless.

By the way... it's spelled "sophomoric." If you're going to use personal attacks, atleast spell them correctly.

Okay, we will. Everyone makes mistakes right Mr. PhD?

733 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:26:37pm

re: #713 David IV of Georgia

You know, I was reading a Christian book today written in the 400's that spoke of the earth being a sphere.

Isaiah 40:22

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a gauze curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in;

734 rtheyserius  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:26:39pm

re: #465 Jwaksman

re: #455 rtheyserius

I believe ANYBODY FROM ANY RELIGION could POSSIBLY become president. As long as their politics jived withed what I consider reasonable politics. Obviously, nobody who believes in sharia law would be qualified to be President of this great nation.

Thanks for a straight answer.

I disagree with you, and I'll tell you why. A person's model of the world (aka religion) does, in fact, influence a great deal of how they organize their thinking, their sense of self -- how they build their character, their values, and the decisions they base upon all of those. To ignore religion in a world leader, as a President of the Unites States surely is, is to disregard a primary informing source of his/her character and judgments.

Someone who sees the world through Christianity will see a very different world than someone who sees it through Wicca, Kali worship, or some other religion. Communism, BTW, in any major historical instance of it, rests on a religious ideal of atheism. Atheism is a religion.

I understand the ideal of equality of religions. But to discount religion as a factor in political judgment, I believe, is to close your eyes to a major component of a person's character.

That is to say, politics do not exist in a vacuum. Politics follow a larger view.

re: #564 Jwaksman

re: #537 Charles
...posters have called me all SORTS of immature names here.

Um, and you have done the same. May I suggest that you relax? If you take a contrary point of view, you're gonna get flack. Stick to your points and you'll do better.

735 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:26:58pm

re: #712 jcm

re: #680 David IV of Georgia

jcm,

***sigh*** I really thought my master's degree was from an accredited school (NOT Bob Jones). I got a pretty hood. I guess I was wrong. I had a smart biology teacher in High School. He taught evolution as was required. He also taught genetics and probabilities of genetic mutations and the ability of a species to pass mutations to then next generation and such. I firmly believe in evolution within a species. But macro-evolution? well ...

Micro-evolution with out a doubt, just look at dogs. I also am a Christian who see no contradiction between Scripture and physical evidence, theory not being evidence (yet). The Bible does not claim the earth is 6000 years old, Bishop Usher did. Also when the Bible says 6 days the original word "day" is not a literal day, more like "in the day(s) of my grandfather.

JCM, if G_d is light and time is relative when have two different objects moving at two radically different speeds then the 'days' could have been around 24 hours our time Assuming that G_d was moving either at or beyond the speed of light.

736 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:27:23pm
737 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:27:33pm

re: #715 Jwaksman

All I did was call Charles out for his bias. He is on one side of the debate, so he is making personal attacks against everyone on the other side. He is blindly ignoring the bad behavior on his own side. If he attacked bad behavior on both sides equally that would be fine. If he wanted to ignore all bad behavior, well, then that's his prerogative as well. But if he only attacks Lanaty and I, then that is logically corrupt.

This "argument" was perhaps best summed up by the great sage Pee Wee Herman, who said:

I know you are, but what am I?

The wisdom of the ages.

738 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:27:42pm

re: #544 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #531 Lanaty


re: #517 Pro-Bush Canuck

You assume that I am an atheist. I clearly stated in a prior post that I believe in God.


So does Osama bin Laden.


So does Stan.

739 bebe's boobs destroy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:27:51pm

Pat!

You're hiding on the threads!

740 eastvillageinfidel  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:28:00pm

re: #710 Racer X

That would be my guess, but I'm curious to see what our more enlightened guests have to say.

741 Spiny Norman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:28:01pm

re: #715 Jwaksman

By the way... it's spelled "sophomoric." If you're going to use personal attacks, atleast spell them correctly.

The Irony Meter just exploded...

742 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:28:24pm

re: #712 jcm

re: #680 David IV of Georgia


jcm,

***sigh*** I really thought my master's degree was from an accredited school (NOT Bob Jones). I got a pretty hood. I guess I was wrong. I had a smart biology teacher in High School. He taught evolution as was required. He also taught genetics and probabilities of genetic mutations and the ability of a species to pass mutations to then next generation and such. I firmly believe in evolution within a species. But macro-evolution? well ...


Micro-evolution with out a doubt, just look at dogs. I also am a Christian who see no contradiction between Scripture and physical evidence, theory not being evidence (yet). The Bible does not claim the earth is 6000 years old, Bishop Usher did. Also when the Bible says 6 days the original word "day" is not a literal day, more like "in the day(s) of my grandfather.

Thank-you!

A voice of sanity.

It is comforting to know there are those who do not partakte of the extremes of dumb-as-a-post "cavemen rode dinosaurs" creationists at one pole, and spiritually autistic materialists at the other.

There are many subtlties and immense power in the Christian account of Creation which are wholly lost on these polar idiots.

743 Ay, Caramba  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:28:25pm

re: #607 Geepers

Ay, Caramba (#562),

The Big Bang Theory: Let There Be Light.
Perfect.

What was there before the big bang...before the ether (some theory I read about)...My head hurts.
What created it all?

744 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:28:31pm

re: #718 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #678 Thanos


re: #646 Lanaty

re: #639 Pro-Bush Canuck
By my count, there is only one atheist, and it's in his handle.

I'm an aetheist

Yes but you're not a militant athiest, nor are any Lizards I know of. Not sure about some of the trolls here tonight.

The way I see it is like this: a person who decides for whatever reason not to have children is a completely decent person who owes no explanation to anyone. He is no better or worse morally for it, and is welcome to be my friend any day. A person who advocates that everyone else should be childless -- possibly even under duress -- is on the other hand the epitomy of absolute, demonic evil. This ideology exists on the outer fringes of the green movement, along with those who advocate releasing engineered airborne ebola to decimate the human race and thereby "save the planet".

The analogy is far from perfect. Nonetheless it does allow me to say I have no problem with Thanos the athiest, while simultaneously considering atheism as a creed to be abominably evil.

I just can't believe - on the other hand I'm not such as supercilious bastard as to think I know absolutely everything there is to know. In other words I could be wrong.

745 David IV of Georgia  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:28:33pm

re: #733 jcm

re: #713 David IV of Georgia

You know, I was reading a Christian book today written in the 400's that spoke of the earth being a sphere.
Isaiah 40:22

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a gauze curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in;

St. Gregory of Nyssa, On the Soul and Resurrection.

746 goodbye_natalie  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:28:40pm

167 is an insult. Wait a minute. I'm going to blow the dust of my diplomas...

747 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:29:30pm

Jwaksman

your argument is that ALL faiths are equally valid and in your estimation wrong.

Taking that as our working assumption then, it follows that pagan cannibal cults in New Guinea are the moral equivalent of Roman Catholicism and Islam. You don't want to make any cultural judgments but you are making a judgment that the complete ABSENCE of faith is morally superior to any and all known faiths (even Scientology, so say five hail Xenus and sin no more!). By asserting atheism as morally superior to all faiths you are engaging in the very argument to seek to defeat.

Given that Hitler Stalin and Mao were all atheists and teamed up to wipe out 150 million lives last century, your claim of atheism's moral superiority is on intellectual thin ice. As a Jew I am free to doubt all I wish but I do know that there is a Jewish people. There was a second Temple and it stood in Jerusalem. We just found the quarry that built it this week. But the one thing I do know is the Judaism as practiced today is as good a moral code to be found on this earth. Judaism gave the ten commandments to the world, if everyone ever adhered to them for a single day, there would be paradise on this earth but I am unaware of any central principle tenets of atheism that would solve all the world's problems.

748 pat  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:29:33pm

re: #739 bebe's boobs destroy

Heh, heh. Try to dress. Dreading that damn hill you think I can jog! :(

749 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:29:35pm

re: #740 eastvillageinfidel

I am so proud of him. He has a lady friend. And they are spending their first date (on a Saturday night) here with us.

So cute!

750 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:29:39pm

re: #735 Perplexed

re: #712 jcm

re: #680 David IV of Georgia

jcm,

***sigh*** I really thought my master's degree was from an accredited school (NOT Bob Jones). I got a pretty hood. I guess I was wrong. I had a smart biology teacher in High School. He taught evolution as was required. He also taught genetics and probabilities of genetic mutations and the ability of a species to pass mutations to then next generation and such. I firmly believe in evolution within a species. But macro-evolution? well ...

Micro-evolution with out a doubt, just look at dogs. I also am a Christian who see no contradiction between Scripture and physical evidence, theory not being evidence (yet). The Bible does not claim the earth is 6000 years old, Bishop Usher did. Also when the Bible says 6 days the original word "day" is not a literal day, more like "in the day(s) of my grandfather.

JCM, if G_d is light and time is relative when have two different objects moving at two radically different speeds then the 'days' could have been around 24 hours our time Assuming that G_d was moving either at or beyond the speed of light.

G-d exists in eternity, time is part of creation.

751 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:29:45pm

re: #723 Geepers


And you'd be well advised to check out Dale Carnegie's: How to Win Friends and Influence People. It would be a revelation for you.


That's the problem here. Everyone is defending their friends and the dogmas that they were brought up with rather than having an open mind to different ideals.

In the race to the bottom of idealogical purity, you are driving away posters who are so close to you on so many issues. Lanaty and I are both lovers of the stories on lgf, and read it every day, but both of us are coming to the realization that it's not worth dealing with the bullying posters here to actually continue posting. You have over 100,000 hits every day, and yet only a few dozen people who post. Do you really want to continue to drive everyone who isn't dogmatically "pure" away?

752 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:29:48pm

re: #715 Jwaksman

re: #695 LSD

Seriously. Are your pressing for head of the class? Your arguments are ok, but not "Great". Stop thinking you are the master of the great debate. You are getting waaaaaaaaay too defensive and sensitive, making most of your statements sophmoric and pointless.

All I did was call Charles out for his bias. He is on one side of the debate, so he is making personal attacks against everyone on the other side. He is blindly ignoring the bad behavior on his own side. If he attacked bad behavior on both sides equally that would be fine. If he wanted to ignore all bad behavior, well, then that's his prerogative as well. But if he only attacks Lanaty and I, then that is logically corrupt.

By the way... it's spelled "sophomoric." If you're going to use personal attacks, atleast spell them correctly.

And we have ourselves a Gramscian!

Listen, sissy. This can get to be a tough blog. /We're rabid, right-wing fascists, afterall.

Nobody here has really gone after you in a manner that should threaten your physical well-being, nor your tender psyche if you weren't such a hothouse flower. Quit bitching about all the name calling - which has been rather sparse, comparatively - and offer up better arguments.

Better yet, recognize that you're not so fucking bright and come back to this thread tomorrow with a clearer head to find out why.

753 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:29:55pm

re: #683 Jwaksman

I'm used to being around dumb people

Yup, you should be, having lived with one all your life.

754 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:30:07pm

re: #715 Jwaksman


You are disingenuous.

You have yet to prove your claims:

1) that the bible is just as bad/violent as the koran

2) that our Constitution calls for we the voters to not take religion/cult beliefs into consideration.

3) that people who believe in creationism are stupid and need more science to believe what you believe in because you could not possibly be wrong

4) that all religions are created equal


I'm sure there is more that you have refused to answer, but that is ok. I don't expect any.

755 Sharmuta  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:30:40pm

re: #746 goodbye_natalie

Spotting that trump card argument is almost as easy as dropping those Snickers bars.

756 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:31:21pm

re: #736 song_and_dance_man

re: #717 Noam Sayin'

Do I smell an IQ of 167, maybe?

Oh... excuse me...

*SNORK*

757 eastvillageinfidel  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:32:02pm

re: #749 Racer X

He sounds cheap, if you ask me. And they're ignoring me. (whine)

758 Gordon  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:32:02pm

re: #707 Charles
The Oracle Speaks!

Somehow, I'm reminded of this movie.

759 ConservativeAtheist  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:32:23pm

re: #744 Thanos


I just can't believe - on the other hand I'm not such as supercilious bastard as to think I know absolutely everything there is to know. In other words I could be wrong.

Amen, Brother.

760 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:32:30pm

re: #747 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

Jwaksman

your argument is that ALL faiths are equally valid and in your estimation wrong.

Taking that as our working assumption then, it follows that pagan cannibal cults in New Guinea are the moral equivalent of Roman Catholicism and Islam. You don't want to make any cultural judgments but you are making a judgment that the complete ABSENCE of faith is morally superior to any and all known faiths (even Scientology, so say five hail Xenus and sin no more!). By asserting atheism as morally superior to all faiths you are engaging in the very argument to seek to defeat.

Given that Hitler Stalin and Mao were all atheists and teamed up to wipe out 150 million lives last century, your claim of atheism's moral superiority is on intellectual thin ice. As a Jew I am free to doubt all I wish but I do know that there is a Jewish people. There was a second Temple and it stood in Jerusalem. We just found the quarry that built it this week. But the one thing I do know is the Judaism as practiced today is as good a moral code to be found on this earth. Judaism gave the ten commandments to the world, if everyone ever adhered to them for a single day, there would be paradise on this earth but I am unaware of any central principle tenets of atheism that would solve all the world's problems.

Wait? I argued that all religions are morally equal? I argued that atheism was morally superior to other religions? Huh? Hahahaha. I mean, I guess this is one step above calling me petty names. But atleast read my posts before you come to insane conclusions about what you think I'm trying to say.

761 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:32:56pm

re: #744 Thanos

re: #718 Pro-Bush Canuck


re: #678 Thanos

re: #646 Lanaty

re: #639 Pro-Bush Canuck
By my count, there is only one atheist, and it's in his handle.

I'm an aetheist

Yes but you're not a militant athiest, nor are any Lizards I know of. Not sure about some of the trolls here tonight.
The way I see it is like this: a person who decides for whatever reason not to have children is a completely decent person who owes no explanation to anyone. He is no better or worse morally for it, and is welcome to be my friend any day. A person who advocates that everyone else should be childless -- possibly even under duress -- is on the other hand the epitomy of absolute, demonic evil. This ideology exists on the outer fringes of the green movement, along with those who advocate releasing engineered airborne ebola to decimate the human race and thereby "save the planet".

The analogy is far from perfect. Nonetheless it does allow me to say I have no problem with Thanos the athiest, while simultaneously considering atheism as a creed to be abominably evil.


I just can't believe - on the other hand I'm not such as supercilious bastard as to think I know absolutely everything there is to know. In other words I could be wrong.

That is a completely bogus argument which gets repeated in here from time to time. No Christian ever claimed to "know everything there is to know". We claim to experience God in our lives directly, the way we experience music, beaty and love. There are MANY humans who are constitutionally unable to experience music, beauty or love. You cannot "prove" any of these things "logically". Those who would announce that love does not exist because they cannot feel it are profoundly wrong -- as wrong as humand can be.

762 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:33:17pm
763 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:33:35pm

re: #753 JeremyR

re: #683 Jwaksman

I'm used to being around dumb people

Yup, you should be, having lived with one all your life.


Oooh... wow. Where'd you come up with that one? Hahahaha.

764 jcm  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:34:07pm

re: #742 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #712 jcm

re: #680 David IV of Georgia


jcm,***sigh*** I really thought my master's degree was from an accredited school (NOT Bob Jones). I got a pretty hood. I guess I was wrong. I had a smart biology teacher in High School. He taught evolution as was required. He also taught genetics and probabilities of genetic mutations and the ability of a species to pass mutations to then next generation and such. I firmly believe in evolution within a species. But macro-evolution? well ...


Micro-evolution with out a doubt, just look at dogs. I also am a Christian who see no contradiction between Scripture and physical evidence, theory not being evidence (yet). The Bible does not claim the earth is 6000 years old, Bishop Usher did. Also when the Bible says 6 days the original word "day" is not a literal day, more like "in the day(s) of my grandfather.

Thank-you!

A voice of sanity.

It is comforting to know there are those who do not partakte of the extremes of dumb-as-a-post "cavemen rode dinosaurs" creationists at one pole, and spiritually autistic materialists at the other.

There are many subtlties and immense power in the Christian account of Creation which are wholly lost on these polar idiots.

Psalm 89:14
Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne

That tells me, the universe as created hold no tricks. When when the laws of universe can be derived in quantum physics and using those laws I can measure the age of rocks and light, it must be the truth, other wise God incorporated lies into creation. His foundation of His authority is Righteousness, therefore he could not incorporated lies into creation.

765 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:34:15pm

re: #760 Jwaksman


Now you aren't recalling what you already posted?

HAHA...you drunk?

766 bikermailman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:34:16pm

re: #584 Highrise

re: #576 Sharmuta


re: #564 Jwaksman

You called him an a-hole. Suffer from memory holes, do you?


Yes and people who believe in Creation are stupid :) and need to have a *come to science* moment.

HAHHAHAHHAHAHAA! Nice....

767 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:34:39pm

re: #751 Jwaksman

Straw man.

Heh. Didn't know I still had that one on the clipboard.

768 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:35:01pm

re: #754 Highrise

You didn't really expect a coherent argument from someone who called just about everyone else "bigots" right out of the gate did you?

769 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:35:27pm

re: #715 Jwaksman

By the way... it's spelled "sophomoric." If you're going to use personal attacks, atleast spell them correctly.

See here, asswipe.

If you're gonna' attack people for not spelling things correctly, then you and your ass-buddy need to do some serious remedial work on prepositional phrases. The proper use thereof requires more skill than spelling.

770 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:35:35pm

re: #763 Jwaksman

Just trying to get to your level is all.

771 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:35:40pm

re: #754 Highrise

re: #715 Jwaksman


You are disingenuous.

You have yet to prove your claims:

1) that the bible is just as bad/violent as the koran

2) that our Constitution calls for we the voters to not take religion/cult beliefs into consideration.

3) that people who believe in creationism are stupid and need more science to believe what you believe in because you could not possibly be wrong

4) that all religions are created equal


I'm sure there is more that you have refused to answer, but that is ok. I don't expect any.


I never said any of these things. Dear Lord, did you even read anything I posted? Or are you just reading the petty attacks against me?

I refuse to get into a "let's see which religion is better" or "which religion is more violent" argument. Nobody will ever come up with a satisfactory answer. And it's irrelevant anyway.

All muslims are different. All Christians are different. All humans have slightly different ideas, morality, character and politics. Being a muslim does not qualify someone from being an educated, useful member of society. That's ALL I'm saying. Judge people on who they are - not their religion. That's ALL I'm saying.

772 Thanos  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:35:51pm

re: #761 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #744 Thanos


re: #718 Pro-Bush Canuck

re: #678 Thanos

re: #646 Lanaty

re: #639 Pro-Bush Canuck
By my count, there is only one atheist, and it's in his handle.

I'm an aetheist

Yes but you're not a militant athiest, nor are any Lizards I know of. Not sure about some of the trolls here tonight.
The way I see it is like this: a person who decides for whatever reason not to have children is a completely decent person who owes no explanation to anyone. He is no better or worse morally for it, and is welcome to be my friend any day. A person who advocates that everyone else should be childless -- possibly even under duress -- is on the other hand the epitomy of absolute, demonic evil. This ideology exists on the outer fringes of the green movement, along with those who advocate releasing engineered airborne ebola to decimate the human race and thereby "save the planet".
The analogy is far from perfect. Nonetheless it does allow me to say I have no problem with Thanos the athiest, while simultaneously considering atheism as a creed to be abominably evil.

I just can't believe - on the other hand I'm not such as supercilious bastard as to think I know absolutely everything there is to know. In other words I could be wrong.

That is a completely bogus argument which gets repeated in here from time to time. No Christian ever claimed to "know everything there is to know". We claim to experience God in our lives directly, the way we experience music, beaty and love. There are MANY humans who are constitutionally unable to experience music, beauty or love. You cannot "prove" any of these things "logically". Those who would announce that love does not exist because they cannot feel it are profoundly wrong -- as wrong as humand can be.

PBC: Wasn't dissing Christians, was referencing our moby.

773 goodbye_natalie  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:36:29pm

I always love it when people drag out the equivalence factor. It immediately tells me (1) they're clueless; (2) they're blind; (3) they have attended one too many college classes.

Why aren't people racing to immigrate to predominantly Muslim countries? Why aren't they beating a path to China or Russia? For that matter, why are Muslims racing to immigrate here?

774 WimbledonWomble  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:36:34pm

re: #639 Pro-Bush Canuck

Hi, Canuck. Yes, we all live in depraved and decadent societies, but I fear that by not prioritizing, conservatives will become divided and self-defeating. Whatever you think of gay culture, it is not our primary enemy at this point. I don't care if people are gay - it is their business. I don't even care about gay bars here and there. It is easy to avoid those places. What we need to realize is that allowing people to be gay is in fact, in a fundamental sense, a conservative Western value. We can live alongside and, if we are bothered by them, simply avoid gay people and gay bars, etc. But we cannot live with freedom in a society that is under sharia law. Islamists want to kill gay people. Ahmadinejad said at Columbia U. that there are no gays in Iran. Pim Fortuyn was gay, yet he was ardently anti-Islamist.

Islamism is a MUCH greater threat to us all than homosexuals. I think gay marriage is wrong but I don't care if people are gay or not, because no matter what one does or no matter what society we live in, some people will be gay. Who cares? If they demand special treatment, sure, we should oppose it, but gays themselves are not a major threat to society. They will never be a majority, because whether being gay is genetic or otherwise, gays will always be a minority. On the other hand, Islamists or Islamist sympathizers could become a majority. They could actually gain enough support through numbers and by intimidating everyone else to impose their will on the populace, especially with a cowering PC populace.

Obviously, Islamic law is much more of an immediate threat to gays than infidel heterosexuals. My point is just this: I don't care if people are gay or straight. I don't want "gay values" taught in school and I don't want gay marriage elevated to the status of heterosexual marriage, but I think that being hung up on gays or other conservative social issues is counter-productive, when the most immediate and dangerous threat is the creeping reach of Islamism.

We need to address how to contain the spread of Islamism first. Then we can tackle other social issues that are not a direct threat to our very existence.

We face a more direct threat to our way of life from Islamists and unchecked immigration from Muslim countries (without any evaluation of whether the immigrant is going to really assimilate or just become another CAIR-supporting soft Islamist) than from the threat of gay culture corrupting our children. There will always be gay people, but they will always be a small minority of the population. Most people will never be gay and never be attracted to gay culture. So it is self-limiting. However, Islamism is not so. Once we allow Islamism to gain a foothold, it is irreversible. It is viral, since it is a totalitarian ideology that attracts the weak and leads to intimidation of others.

Social conservatives need to become cultural conservatives now and focus on preserving Western culture, with all its pluralism but none of its stupid multicultural nihilism.

775 ChildOfMary  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:36:38pm

re: #754 Highrise

re: #715 Jwaksman


You are disingenuous.

You have yet to prove your claims:

1) that the bible is just as bad/violent as the koran

2) that our Constitution calls for we the voters to not take religion/cult beliefs into consideration.

3) that people who believe in creationism are stupid and need more science to believe what you believe in because you could not possibly be wrong

4) that all religions are created equal


I'm sure there is more that you have refused to answer, but that is ok. I don't expect any.

There has been more -- a lot more that our two companions have not answered -- all through this thread person after person has challenged specific points and there have not been any specific answers. Too bad.

776 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:36:54pm

re: #771 Jwaksman

No, you are a liar...now. You DID say those things.

I call bs on the fact you came here to debate.

You don't fool me. Nice try though.

777 Killian Bundy  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:36:57pm

re: #751 Jwaksman

That's the problem here. Everyone is defending their friends and the dogmas that they were brought up with rather than having an open mind to different ideals.

Of course, that works both ways.

/just maybe your dogmas are the stupid ones

778 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:36:59pm

re: #764 jcm

Precisely my view, and I believe a lot of younger, educated Christians are starting to appreciate this way of seeing things.

There is NO contradiction between faith and science when both are properly approached and understood.

779 kevinmumaw  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:37:34pm

Makes me want to support McCain

780 Render  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:37:42pm

There is no argument about which religion is more violent.

There never has been.

BY
THE
SWORD,
R

781 Jwaksman  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:37:49pm

This is getting out of hand and nasty. Nothing useful will come out of such an angry group of people. I suggest everyone relax, go to sleep, and then read the things being posted tomorrow when you're more calm. Ignore the petty personal insults and actually read the real debate.


Everyone is simply getting too angry for anything reasonable to get discussed anymore. Atleast an hour or so ago people would actually make a real argument before they'd call me stupid.

782 rightwinger3  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:38:08pm

re: #769 MandyManners

re: #715 Jwaksman

By the way... it's spelled "sophomoric." If you're going to use personal attacks, atleast spell them correctly.

See here, asswipe.

If you're gonna' attack people for not spelling things correctly, then you and your ass-buddy need to do some serious remedial work on prepositional phrases. The proper use thereof requires more skill than spelling.

Mandy, I love that word.

783 DEZes  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:38:08pm

re: #751 Jwaksman

You play the victim really well, Or so you think.
You started the name calling, And then grab your chest in disbelief when its turned on you.
You may be well on your way to a PhD, But you will not be the first over educated idiot that stood on my porch holding a pizza.

784 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:38:15pm

re: #774 WimbledonWomble

Excellent post among all this nonsense. I agree wholeheartedly.

785 Racer X  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:38:16pm

re: #760 Jwaksman

But atleast read my posts before you come to insane conclusions about what you think I'm trying to say.

Help us dumb people out then. What are you trying to say?

786 JeremyR  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:38:25pm

re: #764 jcm

But is the method of calculating the age correct? Carbon 14 dating on LIVE mussels shows them to be centuries old.
Also, testing done on a board found in a pond in Turkey dated one end at about 5000 years, and the other at over 1 million years.

787 Highrise  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:38:29pm

re: #781 Jwaksman

That is a nice way to get out of it...saving face eh?

788 Noam Sayin'  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:38:33pm

I'm seeing dogmas being thrown around a lot tonight. Wouldn't they be safer chasing karmas?

789 Perplexed  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:39:10pm

re: #781 Jwaksman

This is getting out of hand and nasty. Nothing useful will come out of such an angry group of people. I suggest everyone relax, go to sleep, and then read the things being posted tomorrow when you're more calm. Ignore the petty personal insults and actually read the real debate.


Everyone is simply getting too angry for anything reasonable to get discussed anymore. Atleast an hour or so ago people would actually make a real argument before they'd call me stupid.

Angry? We're just warming up.

790 Charles  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:39:11pm

re: #781 Jwaksman

Ignore the petty personal insults and actually read the real debate.

You mean, like that post when you called me an asshole?

791 blackpajamas  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:39:39pm

re: #96 Lanaty

I'm an engineering snob ... [snip] we had a good time bashing both the Koran and the Bible.

Whoa! OK. Stop the short bus.

Son, out of the generosity of one of my palpitating organs (with which I would just as soon smack you), I'm going to share with you a little bit of what is called life wisdom; something that might not be being taught to you at your institution of higher learning.

Lesson one, just because you may be engaged in a discipline (e.g., engineering) where faith may not appear as readily accessible as with other programs (e.g., philosophy), don't make the mistake of thinking that it is OK to act as if there is no place for faith in the lives of people who support that discipline.

For example, many of my engineers are religious, and if they were on a team with you and heard of your cavalier attitude towards people of faith, your reputation would be dog-meat. I don't just mean inside my crew, but in the industry at large.

Additionally, due to the nature of my work a lot of my customers have a significant working relationship with the Big J-man upstairs; so there's no way I'd let an indiscreet whelp sabotage our bridges with petty bourgeois engineering snobbery.

792 Le_Patriot  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:39:47pm

re: #741 Spiny Norman

re: #715 Jwaksman

By the way... it's spelled "sophomoric." If you're going to use personal attacks, atleast spell them correctly.

The Irony Meter just exploded...

_________
Maybee his spel checkerr idn't workin', or maybe his collidge hasn't offered im' Inglish Lit 101 yet.
/but wee awl make mistakes....even the self-proclaimed geniusess hear two nite. : )

793 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sat, Sep 29, 2007 9:40:21pm

Jwaksman:

Since you're correcting people, it's "jibed", not "jived", dumb-ass.

As