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Muslim Med Students Refuse to Learn About Infidel Illnesses

Sun, Oct 7, 2007 at 10:50:19 am PDT

Muslim “medical students” in the UK are now openly refusing to learn how to treat some illnesses: Muslim medical students get picky.

Inch by inch, they’re insinuating shari’a law into every part of British society.

Some Muslim medical students are refusing to attend lectures or answer exam questions on alcohol-related or sexually transmitted diseases because they claim it offends their religious beliefs.

Some trainee doctors say learning to treat the diseases conflicts with their faith, which states that Muslims should not drink alcohol and rejects sexual promiscuity.

A small number of Muslim medical students have even refused to treat patients of the opposite sex. One male student was prepared to fail his final exams rather than carry out a basic examination of a female patient.

And how are the British medical assocations reacting to this dangerous development? By expelling those students?

Well, no. But they do disapprove.

The religious objections by students have been confirmed by the British Medical Association (BMA) and General Medical Council (GMC), which both stressed that they did not approve of such actions.

UPDATE at 10/7/07 11:02:50 am:

The Daily Mail has more information; the GMC says Muslim doctors who refuse parts of the curriculum will not be allowed to graduate. For now, anyway: Muslim medical students refuse to learn about alcohol or sexual diseases.

And the GMC, which regulates doctors and maintains the medical register, recently brought out a paper for medical schools explaining what to do if students ask whether they could still graduate if they omitted parts of the medical curriculum.

The document makes it clear that doctors will not be able to opt out of any part of their training despite any religious objections.

Professor Peter Rubin, chairman of the GMC’s education committee, said: ‘Examples have included a refusal to see patients who are affected by diseases caused by alcohol or sexual activity, or a refusal to examine patients of a particular gender.’

But he said trainees who refused to carry out these parts of their courses would not be allowed to graduate because ‘prejudicing treatment on the grounds of patients’ gender or their responsibility for their condition would run counter to the most basic principles of ethical medical practice.’

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311 comments

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1 pegcity  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:50:49am

let me guess no one in Iran ever gets the Clap

2 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:53:46am
3 filetandrelease  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:53:51am

It is kind of like learning how to fly a plan, but not land it.

4 Yankee Division Son  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:53:57am

re: #1 pegcity


Quite correct. Just like "there are no gays in Iran".

5 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:53:58am

re: #1 pegcity

let me guess no one in Iran ever gets the Clap


Or AIDS.

Can we please send them all back to the ME and build a huge wall around the god forsaken place?

6 FrogMarch  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:54:33am

a little at a time.

We in the US are trying to catch up. But first, pure socialism. Socialism will act as the host to our future Shari'a law masters.

7 mama winger  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:54:43am

I read another post on this earlier this morning. It said that the governing boards would not allow these students to graduate of they did not complete these requirements.

I think it was on the Dead Thread maybe ?

8 brakes  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:54:54am

I guess there won't be any problems with broken backs now since the infidels have no backbones.

9 marsl  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:55:46am

Just expel those idiots.
Doctors are expected to treat all people, regardless of their sex, faith, race or financial status. If those muslims cannot do that, just choose another profession.
We don't need that kind of doctors.

10 LC LaWedgie  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:56:37am

I find these photos interesting from Jakarta - I guess those rotten infidels smuggle a lot of booze.

11 Blackacre  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:56:45am

They disapproved? What did they do -- steal a page from the UN's play book and issue a strongly worded letter?

12 father_of_10  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:56:52am

re: #2 savage_nation

These creatures never heard of the Hippocratic Oath, I guess

No, they take the hypocritic oath instead. I think it's in the Koran.

13 Drained Brain  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:58:40am

I'd say the feeling is mutual but that would make me a racist and/or religious bigot, wouldn't it?

14 brakes  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:58:41am

Well now, how many professions are the Superior muslims proving they are unfit for?

15 Spiny Norman  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:58:48am

re: #3 filetandrelease

It is kind of like learning how to fly a plan, but not land it.

Har-har!

=^D

16 mama winger  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:58:50am
The document makes it clear that doctors will not be able to opt out of any part of their training despite any religious objections.

Professor Peter Rubin, chairman of the GMC's education committee, said: 'Examples have included a refusal to see patients who are affected by diseases caused by alcohol or sexual activity, or a refusal to examine patients of a particular gender.'

But he said trainees who refused to carry out these parts of their courses would not be allowed to graduate because 'prejudicing treatment on the grounds of patients' gender or their responsibility for their condition would run counter to the most basic principles of ethical medical practice.'

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

17 400lb Gorilla  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:58:54am

Maybe our doctors should stop treating Camel Toe

18 THELAZYC  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:00:04am

re: #2 savage_nation

These creatures never heard of the Hippocratic Oath, I guess

These "creatures" like everything else not Islamic and /or Sharia means nothing to them!

19 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:00:54am
20 Caliredst8r  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:00:55am

Why do they become doctors when their cult religion puts so many constraints on what they can actually do? Who treats the women in Muslim countries if women aren't allowed to be educated and the male doctors won't treat them?

21 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:01:16am

re: #18 THELAZYC

re: #2 savage_nation


These creatures never heard of the Hippocratic Oath, I guess

These "creatures" like everything else not Islamic and /or Sharia means nothing to them!


Which is why they're still stuck in the 1st century and will remain so.

22 Babydoc97  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:01:17am

Wow....I'm astounded that even this level of barbarism in individuals supposedly intelligent enough to be in training to become physicians doesn't set off warning klaxons regarding the satanic death cult of islam.

As a physician myself, I suppose the only other thing I can say is that when you resort to a socialized health care system that ultimately leads to a shortage of doctors...then you further complicate matters with politically correct moral relativism...you end up having no choice but to accept these spolied brat moon-demon worshippers to have some type of medical care.

I wonder how long it will be before blood-letting becomes standard medical practice...:p

23 Spiny Norman  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:01:22am

re: #12 father_of_10

re: #2 savage_nation
These creatures never heard of the Hippocratic Oath, I guess
No, they take the hypocritic oath instead. I think it's in the Koran.

Oh, seeing as Hippocrates was an infidel, such a thing would most definitely be un-Islamic.

24 brakes  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:01:24am

re: #16 mama winger

I hope you're right. Just wait for the seething to begin.

25 Spiritualized  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:02:09am
And how are the British medical assocations reacting to this dangerous development? By expelling those students?

I know this one, don't tell me.

They're going to boycott Israel? I'm right aren't I!?

26 itellu3times  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:02:14am

They don't believe in western science or just don't want to talk about it, AIDS will kill 80% of them in the next century.

Unfortunately that's too slow, they're dogmatic, not (entirely) stupid, and will do what they must as the problems get worse.

The fire next time ...

27 Ojoe  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:02:38am

Will they refuse to learn how to remove shrapnel as well?

28 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:02:43am
29 chicagodudewhotrades  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:03:14am

I bet the [bigoted word] med students are studying up on Rickets. Apparently, when females wear their Burka 'Freedom bags" all day out side, they are , surprise, not getting enough sun on their skin. Of course, since the [bigoted word] med students are mostly male, I bet they couldn't give a damn about studying the medical problems of their future property.

30 Crusader Rabbit  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:03:28am

re: #2 savage_nation

Oh, they've heard of it. The problem is that the Hippocratic oath was laid down by a polytheist and consequently is not binding on muslims.

31 itellu3times  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:04:08am

re: #28 savage_nation

And back in the day, the Muslim world was at the pinnacle of arts, science, medicine, and learning. What the FUCK happened?

All that stuff, they stole, and everyone else was asleep at the time.

32 Fellay Timi  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:04:11am

I think the Glasgow episode gave us a clue what some "British" moslem doctors think about their host nation

They are probably trainees in more ways than one, IMHO

33 shibumi  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:05:26am

Here's a thought- just say no Muslim doctors. Plenty of infidels still practicing medicine, at least in the U.S.

34 Spiny Norman  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:05:55am

re: #28 savage_nation

re: #21 The Pulchritudinous Patriot
re: #18 THELAZYC
re: #2 savage_nation
These creatures never heard of the Hippocratic Oath, I guess
These "creatures" like everything else not Islamic and /or Sharia means nothing to them
Which is why they're still stuck in the 1st century and will remain so.
And back in the day, the Muslim world was at the pinnacle of arts, science, medicine, and learning. What the FUCK happened?

Since the "pinnacles" of art, science, medicine and learning in the ancient Muslim world were non-Muslim slaves and dhimmis, once they were gone, it all stagnated.

In other words, Islam happened.

35 spam spam spam spam  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:05:57am

Just say NO to Mohammedan "doctors". You have a choice (for now).

Make mine a Greenbaum.

36 pegcity  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:06:46am

They pull this crap in Britain because they know in the long run the Brits will cave to everyone of their demands

37 nyc redneck  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:06:48am

how odd to read this today. i just heard from a good friend that her brother passed away 2 days ago. he was 44 ys old. he died of alcohol poisoning. really sad. alcohol related diseases are here and people should be able to get treatment. fuck those phony "doctors" and their primitive beliefs.

38 FrumiousFalafel  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:07:02am

There is a striking similarity between the incremental nature of the British-Muslim "takeover" of laws and practices which have 500 years of precedence AND the incremental ratcheting up of anti-Semitic laws in Nazi-Germany. In the same way that the Jews in Germany couldn't quite figure out whether or not things "would get worse" after each new "law" against them, British non-Muslims may also be thinking to themselves, "well, this will be the 'farthest they go'; surely they won't want yet more given that we've already granted them everything they've asked for".

39 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:07:07am

re: #22 Babydoc97

BD97 -

Might be time to invest in a "Leech Farm."

-S-

40 LC LaWedgie  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:07:17am

re: #22 Babydoc97

I wonder how long it will be before blood-letting becomes standard medical practice...:p

Well, that's their preferred method of nation building...

41 Occasional Reader  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:07:50am

re: #25 Spiritualized

And how are the British medical assocations reacting to this dangerous development? By expelling those students?
I know this one, don't tell me.

They're going to boycott Israel? I'm right aren't I!?

Or maybe they'll be even more "progressive", and refuse to treat Jews altogether.

42 looking closely  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:09:15am

Asshats.

Nobody enjoys dealing with hardcore drug addicts and/or prostitutes, but that's part of the job.

This is the medical equivalent of the taxicab drivers who refuse to pick up fares carrying containers of alcohol.

If these wannabe doctors don't want to treat alcohol or sexually related diseases, let them go into the appropriate medical specialties (eg radiology), IF they are qualified to do so.

If they refuse to answer questions about those topics on exams, GREAT. . .let them fail out of medical school. If they refuse to do the appopriate service work on rotations or as residents, they can get fired like anyone else.

43 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:09:48am
44 asshander  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:10:23am

The socialists heads must be exploding. How will they reconcile this with the notion of a right to medical care?

45 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:10:30am
46 Kohenan The Barbarian[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:10:45am
47 6pat6  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:10:57am
A small number of Muslim medical students have even refused to treat patients of the opposite sex.

Ah, yes, such an enlightened bunch, aren't they?

48 spam spam spam spam  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:11:16am

re: #28 savage_nation

re: #21 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

re: #18 THELAZYC
re: #2 savage_nation

These creatures never heard of the Hippocratic Oath, I guess

These "creatures" like everything else not Islamic and /or Sharia means nothing to them!

Which is why they're still stuck in the 1st century and will remain so.
And back in the day, the Muslim world was at the pinnacle of arts, science, medicine, and learning. What the FUCK happened?

Pinnacle of arts, science, medicine, and learning? Please provide proof. It's a myth. Never happened.

When not stolen from other cultures, those things usually happened IN SPITE of islam, most often by infidels under Islamic rule.

49 Allah al Fubar  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:11:17am

The term "Islam, religion of peace" should be abolished and replaced with a more truthful tag line:

"Islam.. Cancer of the Soul"

50 kansas  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:11:52am

re: #28 savage_nation

And back in the day, the Muslim world was at the pinnacle of arts, science, medicine, and learning. What the FUCK happened?

Back in that day art was scratching on a cave wall, medicine was mixing up some roots, science thought the world was flat, and learning was learning all that was later proven to be wrong.

51 filetandrelease  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:12:26am

re: #28 savage_nation


Recently I read a thesis on that, the early scientific exploits of Islam. The premise was that in the early days of Islam after they had conquered infidel lands, for a time, their were still learned men in these lands, but after a century or so of educational subjugation, no more. Otherwise, it wasn't Islam at all, but rather rem-nits of previous cultures absorbed by Islam that attempted to continue the pursuit of science.

52 Catttt  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:12:38am

Funny - finally a story about Muslim students that is based on their studies rather than on Muslim students bombing the infidels or attempting to bomb the infidels.

53 ibrodsky  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:12:56am

re: #2 savage_nation

These creatures never heard of the Hippocratic Oath, I guess

Greece was more advanced in 300 BCE than Islam is today.

54 Caliredst8r  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:13:17am

re: #22 Babydoc97

Blood letting is already a standard practice in Islam, infidels are a disease which can only be treated by the leeches of Islam.

55 So?  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:13:19am

why waste time with these muslim student doctors-JUST FAIL THEM!

simple, easy, let them go tend bar or pluck sheep hairs.

In any other area of study, you either complete the curriculum requirements or you fail.

As for those muslims who are dosctors already, well take away their license to practice, if they refuse to be real doctors.

there. case solved. period.

56 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:13:41am

Name that religion.....
Sex exhibition vandalized

A number of pictures by American photographer Andres Serrano were vandalized on Friday afternoon at an art gallery in Lund.

Four masked men stormed into the Kulturen gallery and began attacking the framed photographs with crow bars and an axe, Sydsvenskan reports.

According to witnesses, as the men ran in they pushed staff out of the way and shouted the words: "We don't support this shit."

They then left behind flyers bearing the message: "Against decadence and for a healthier culture".

The flyers however were unsigned and the men did not leave any clues as to their identity.

Any guesses?

57 MandyManners  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:13:42am

OT drive-by.

The suspect in the murder of two armored car guards is named Mustafa Ali. I wonder if he converted in the federal pen when he was serving seven years for armed bank robbery.

Later, Lizards!

58 marysaidno  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:14:27am

One problem I see here is that there are religious Christians who object to being required to do abortions in their training. If they are allowed to opt out, will it not be difficult to say the Muslims cannot do the same for the same reasons? I know there is a difference between believing the procedure is murder and believing that alcoholism or venereal diseases are punishments for sin, but I do not think the ACLU (for example) would see the difference.

59 negativ  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:14:33am

Yet more proof that religion is the basis of morality.

60 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:14:34am
61 Spiny Norman  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:14:42am

re: #35 spam spam spam spam

Just say NO to Mohammedan "doctors". You have a choice (for now).

Make mine a Greenbaum.

Most of the doctors around here are named "Singh" or "Reddy".

I imagine Hindus and Sikhs don't have such "personal issues" regarding certain patients' illnesses.

62 Hawaiian cocoNUT  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:14:50am

People,
Pleassssse go and sign the Al Dura tapes release @ petition on-line.
[Link: www.petitiononline.com...]

63 DistantThunder  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:14:52am

I agree that this is idiocy, but leftists can throw back in our faces those Christian doctors who refuse to perform abortions. It is a tricky issue since it would be important to know how to save the life of a mother and perform a necessary emergency abortion - but there are so few of those cases - how does one practice?

A distant family member was talked into an abortion when she was told her gallbladder was failing. She had the abortion - then turns out there was no problem with the gallbladder. i don't know if that was just a cover story.

64 So?  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:15:05am

re: #49 Allah al Fubar

The term "Islam, religion of peace" should be abolished and replaced with a more truthful tag line:

"Islam.. Cancer of the Soul"

Islam: The Black Hole of The Soul

65 THELAZYC  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:15:09am

re: #43 savage_nation

The human race is doomed if these Muslim 'docs' Muslins get the upper hand.

66 asshander  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:15:42am

Does this mean that only women muslim doctors can perform female genital mutilation?

67 theheat  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:16:00am

I'm waiting for someone to go to the emergency room, having choked on a pork product.

"Yes, I seem to have a bit of a pork sandwich stuck in my throat, Doc. Can you help me?"

"Sorry, you pork gobbling infidel, but you're going to die."

But I think it's really, really important that people can "worship any way they see fit". My president even said so.

Not.

68 So?  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:16:00am

re: #57 MandyManners

OT drive-by.

The suspect in the murder of two armored car guards is named Mustafa Ali. I wonder if he converted in the federal pen when he was serving seven years for armed bank robbery.

Later, Lizards!

good thing you're not Amish, the driveby would be real slow--clip-clop-clip-clop-clip-clop

69 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:16:06am
70 looking closely  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:16:11am

The premise here is ridiculous.

Obviously you don't have to condone alcoholism to treat the disease or its consequences.

Also, you can be monogamous and sexually faithful and still get a sexually transmitted disease from sexual assault or from your unfaithful spouse. Having a sexual disease doesn't necessarily mean a moral lapse on the part of the person having one (even if ipso facto being raped is viewed as the fault of the one being raped by Muslim law).

Its also worth mentioning that even if you don't want to treat alcohol-related or sexually transmitted diseases as a physician, you still have to be able to recognize, diagnose, and understand them, at the very least to exclude them from the differential diagnosis in your patients.

So there is no excuse for this nonsense.

71 maddogg  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:16:39am

This presents quite a conundrum for the fledgling British Society of Muslim Gynecologists, donchathink?

72 Geepers  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:16:58am

marysaidno (#58),

One problem I see here is that there are religious Christians who object to being required to do abortions in their training.

Med students are required to perform abortions?

Really?

73 6pat6  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:17:06am
And back in the day, the Muslim world was at the pinnacle of arts, science, medicine, and learning. What the FUCK happened?

They were NEVER the "pinnacle of learning", ever! Only the non-muslims (the dhimmis) and the non-believers that were living there during the time were the scholarly ones. Once they left (or were killed), there was nothing left but ignorance and hate.

For instance, the Iranians (Persians) claim to have come up with the concept of "zero" --- the Hindus beat them to it be several hundred years. Chess? Supposedly from China, rather than Persia, but I don't know that for sure. Oh, and let's not forget their alleged "discovery" of North America...

Isn't islam wonderful!

74 M. Bensson-Levi  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:17:55am

Hello All, Quick drive by, slightly OT,

Palestinian Christian found dead in Gaza

"Found Dead", mind you, as opposed to " Abducted, Murdered and Body Dumped."

Hamas is on the case though... "We will pursue all those involved in this case and make sure that they are severely punished."

He was a crimminal anyway! He sold books. Christian books!

Solved! How obvious! The Jews did it! Case closed.

More money! Give them more money! And a state! Give 'em Massachusetts!...or better yet, Vermont!

75 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:18:01am

re: #63 DistantThunder

I agree. There are also plenty of Christian pharmacists who refuse to fill orders for birth control and RU-486. Those who won't do their jobs need to find another line of work.

76 akak  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:18:03am

Medical student application forms need to change with all these jihad doctors.

77 Babydoc97  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:18:19am

re: #39 Dr. Shalit

Dr. Shalit,

Yep..it just might....LOL

78 grayp  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:18:27am

In the Sunday NYT Magazine there's a regular feature titled "The Ethicist", which deals with ethical conumdrums people find themselves in. Today's lead letter was from a Muslim doc who, while working on a shift in the ER was told a patient who had just come in refused to be treated by a Muslim doc. The only other doc on the shift was also Muslim, so the writer signed a release for the guy. Wondered if he had done the right thing.

The 'ethicist' referred to the patient as a 'bigot'. I thought, "Oh, really? Would you call a Jew who refused to be treated by a Nazi doc a 'bigot'?" These people want to kill or convert every last one of us. I wouldn't trust one with a hangnail. And a few days ago, on a dead thread, we did have an lizard who needed surgery and made damn sure there were no Muslims on her medical team.

79 ibrodsky  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:18:37am

re: #57 MandyManners

OT drive-by.

The suspect in the murder of two armored car guards is named Mustafa Ali. I wonder if he converted in the federal pen when he was serving seven years for armed bank robbery.

Later, Lizards!

Islam provides consolation and inspiration to convicts. It tells them the real criminals are Jooos and Christians. It tells them that the existing authorities are not qualified to judge them. It tells them that there is no justice in Western democracies.

This is why so many convicts convert to Islam. It is the religion of choice among criminals. After all, Mohammed was a caravan raider, a pedophile, and a mass murderer.

/Did I mention that Islam is a vile and disgusting religion?

80 Allah al Fubar  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:18:39am

re: #58 marysaidno

One problem I see here is that there are religious Christians who object to being required to do abortions in their training. If they are allowed to opt out, will it not be difficult to say the Muslims cannot do the same for the same reasons? I know there is a difference between believing the procedure is murder and believing that alcoholism or venereal diseases are punishments for sin, but I do not think the ACLU (for example) would see the difference.


For some reason, I don't think that abortion is part of medical training and curriculum, but I could be wrong.

81 Neo Con since 9-11  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:19:03am

re: #69 savage_nation

If anyone can believe it, there was actually a Golden Age of Islam

Now it is shit!

Wiki said it's so. It must be true.

/I don't think so

82 Anthean  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:19:04am

re: #56 Killgore Trout

Name that religion.....
Sex exhibition vandalized
Any guesses?

Sure doesn't sound like any Swedes I've known.

You don't suppose they could have been . . . shudder . . . Moslems ?

83 find your Violent Jihadi on Ebay!  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:19:12am

There'll come a day - probably not too far in the future - when patients in America, the UK, and elsewhere will be afraid to go to the hospital or a doctor, because there'll be a rash of unexplained deaths along with refusals of treatment from Moslem doctors, and it will take all of an hour or two for the media to declare two things:

1. Islamophobia, and the need to educate people about Islam
2. A need to reexamine our foreign policy and support for Israel, in light of the rage, despair, and hurt felt by Moslems

Then, the govt. and/or medical associates will put out PR announcements that, of course, Moslems should treat all patients, and of course, we need to take responsibility for creating the context that led to this problem in the first place.

In the end, it will be the Jews' fault that Moslems are causing Christian deaths in our own hospitals.

84 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:19:26am
85 Son of the Black Dog  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:19:33am

re: #20 Caliredst8r

Why do they become doctors when their cult religion puts so many constraints on what they can actually do? Who treats the women in Muslim countries if women aren't allowed to be educated and the male doctors won't treat them?

Simple answer.
Women in many Muslim countries don't receive any medical treatment.

86 Allah al Fubar  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:19:43am

re: #64 So?

re: #49 Allah al Fubar


The term "Islam, religion of peace" should be abolished and replaced with a more truthful tag line:

"Islam.. Cancer of the Soul"


Islam: The Black Hole of The Soul


Yours is better... It rhymes. You made a funny!

87 So?  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:19:56am

Some Muslim medical students are refusing to attend lectures or answer exam questions on alcohol-related or sexually transmitted diseases because they claim it offends their religious beliefs.

Dear Muslim Medical Student,
Go become a doctor in one of your Sharia totin lands.
Then you can practice medicine of the devil.

If you decide to stay here...
YOU FAIL. YOU FLUNK. GET TFO OF MY CLASS.

88 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:20:09am

re: #82 Anthean

Maybe, maybe not.

89 ibrodsky  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:21:24am

re: #63 DistantThunder

I agree that this is idiocy, but leftists can throw back in our faces those Christian doctors who refuse to perform abortions. It is a tricky issue since it would be important to know how to save the life of a mother and perform a necessary emergency abortion - but there are so few of those cases - how does one practice?

There is a difference between treating an illness and terminating an unwanted pregnancy. The Hippocratic oath prohibits the latter.

90 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:21:30am
91 6pat6  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:21:40am

re: #69 savage_nation

Gimme a break - that Wiiki list lists the "fathers" or robotics, modern medicine, modern literature, as muslims? Fat chance there! The cult of islam would regard these people as heretics and witches and would put them to death. "Modern", my ass.

92 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:22:00am

re: #28 savage_nation

re: #21 The Pulchritudinous Patriot


re: #18 THELAZYC

re: #2 savage_nation

These creatures never heard of the Hippocratic Oath, I guess

These "creatures" like everything else not Islamic and /or Sharia means nothing to them!

Which is why they're still stuck in the 1st century and will remain so.

And back in the day, the Muslim world was at the pinnacle of arts, science, medicine, and learning. What the FUCK happened?

The inability to have a secular government. Religious zealotism. Intellectual laziness. Puffed up egos. Resting on laurels..who knows? Maybe a combination of all of the above.

93 Allah al Fubar  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:22:18am

I like my Jewish doctor. He's kind, considerate, caring and he has little tiny fingers.

94 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:22:28am
95 Shaky Louie  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:22:38am
Some trainee doctors say learning to treat the diseases conflicts with their faith,


Oh, ye infidels! What of allans will? Will you continue to ignore the will of allan?
Allan wills there should be these diseases, who are we to question? We must not cure these infidels!
Of course, the faithful never aqquire these symptoms, and there are no homosexuals in iran.
/

96 Anthean  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:23:22am

re: #88 Killgore Trout

re: #82 Anthean

Maybe, maybe not.

I agree. Without facts, I am guilty of making an improper conclusion.

97 spam spam spam spam  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:24:08am

re: #60 savage_nation

re: #48 spam spam spam spam

Here is some proof of the science of Islam.

Oh, you cite Wikipedia. Now I see you were being sarcasitc. Very good.

98 Manfred the Wonder Dog  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:24:29am

#20 Caliredst8r- I imagine it's because women are expendable in their culture.

#58 Marysaidno- the key phrase here is "opt out". They're free to opt out of their prospects of being a physician. Once they're a doc, they can't be forced to perform abortions. They're not asking the med school to rearrange the world for them- they're not Islamists.

99 ibrodsky  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:24:38am

There has already been a report of a Jewish patient in the U.S. dying due to the neglect of a Muslim emergency room doctor.

It happened in Skokie, Illinois and has been written about by Debbie Schlussel.

100 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:24:50am

Are there witches in SA?

Maid arrested after Saudi employer 'bewitched'


RIYADH (AFP) — Saudi Arabia's religious police have arrested a domestic worker accused of having put a spell on her employer, the Al-Madina newspaper reported on Sunday.

The arrest of the maid, whose nationality was not revealed, followed a complaint by the wife of the employer who she said had been "bewitched by the maid".

The woman said she suspected her husband had been put under a spell because he fiercely defended the maid from criticism every time she neglected her work.

Members of the religious police, known as Mutawas, discovered "talismans and products of charlatanism" in a search of the maid's quarters in the eastern city of Damman, the newspaper added.

The paper said the maid, who is to face trial, "admitted she took refuge in sorcery so as to make her employers like her".

"The bewitched husband adored the maid and carried out all her wishes, unbeknownst to his wife," the newspaper said.

Saudi's feared religious police are tasked with enforcing respect for public morals. Witchcraft is a capital offence in Saudi Arabia, where Sharia law is strictly applied.

101 budvarakbar  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:24:54am

re: #9 marsl

Just expel those idiots.
Doctors are expected to treat all people, regardless of their sex, faith, race or financial status. If those muslims cannot do that, just choose another profession.
We don't need that kind of doctors.

We do not need that kind of thinking in ANY profession -- including all the way down the ladder to include garbage collection

102 sandbox  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:25:02am

As with most of these stories and incidents the question is not what they (the Islamofascists) do but rather what we are going to do about it. They will continue to push the sharia envelope (it's what they are taight to do). The UK Medical Society's rather weak response just reflects the fear of UK Society in general about taking a stand.

103 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:25:04am
104 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:25:59am

re: #90 savage_nation

Bingo! That's the reaction I was fishing for. I find it odd that people can complain about Islamists silencing free speech while cheering when Christians do it. You're comfortable with that?

105 Caliredst8r  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:26:11am

re: #85 Son of the Black Dog


From my personal experiences the women apparently get very little dental treatment too. The men had pretty nice teeth, the women not so much.

106 So?  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:26:14am

Muslim Medical Students Take The Hypocritical Oath


It's in their blood.

107 looking closely  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:26:22am

re: #63 DistantThunder

I agree that this is idiocy, but leftists can throw back in our faces those Christian doctors who refuse to perform abortions. It is a tricky issue since it would be important to know how to save the life of a mother and perform a necessary emergency abortion - but there are so few of those cases - how does one practice?

A distant family member was talked into an abortion when she was told her gallbladder was failing. She had the abortion - then turns out there was no problem with the gallbladder. i don't know if that was just a cover story.

HUGE difference between not wanting to perform an elective procedure and not wanting to treat an entire gender or multiple classes of disease. (Let alone not merely wanting to LEARN about those diseases!).

Its a little OT, but my understanding is that Islamic medical students are only permitted to dissect the bodies of non-Muslims.

As to this abortion story, that smells like BS. If that story were actually true as you put it, it would be open and shut malpractice.

Physicians hate to operate on pregnant patients (for obvious reasons), though it can be done in an emergency, if necessary. Gallbladder surgeries generally are not emergent (though they can be).

108 akak  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:26:53am

re: #99 ibrodsky


[Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...]

109 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:27:01am

re: #96 Anthean

Google the artists name. It could go either way.

110 nyc redneck  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:27:04am

they are jihading on so many fronts. i'm sick of them making these ridiculous demands and we give in because we have to respect their beliefs based on a stoneage primitive mentality. it's getting dangerous now.

111 Manfred the Wonder Dog  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:27:52am

Does it bother anyone else that so many of the cavalcade of clowns we call presidential candidates want to jump on the religion gravy train while they're vote-whoring? I think the secular nature of the western world is a key to its freedoms- I don't want a prez in the pocket of hypocrites like Oral Roberts.

112 So?  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:28:05am

re: #90 savage_nation

re: #82 Anthean

re: #56 Killgore Trout
Name that religion.....
Sex exhibition vandalized
Any guesses?
Sure doesn't sound like any Swedes I've known.

You don't suppose they could have been . . . shudder . . . Moslems ?

Well, if it was Serrano, good on them!

The have no problem with beheadings, stoning women and blowing themselves up in the name of Allah, but show too much eyelash or eyebrow and they going fucking ballastic.

113 Carl in Jerusalem  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:28:15am

Maybe they should make them take the same Hippocratic Oath too instead of the special Muslim Hippocratic Oath.

114 justamomof4  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:28:47am

re: #12 father_of_10

re: #2 savage_nation


These creatures never heard of the Hippocratic Oath, I guess

No, they take the hypocritic oath instead. I think it's in the Koran.


The Hippocratic Oath appears to have an elastic history . . .yielding language to reflect modern medicine.

. . .in the UK the doctors adhere to a "Duties of a Doctor" and "Good Medical Practices" statement. Most Medical schools in the U.S. and Canada require some form of statement with respect to ethics (to which doctors are expected to adhere). (the phrase "shall do no harm" btw isn't actually contained in the original Hippocratic Oath). - Posted by: J.S. at July 4, 2007 5:20 PM

This is just one example of that elacticity of that oath -

from Cornell:
June 22, 2005 From antiquity to eternity: Revised Hippocratic Oath resonates with graduates By Melissa Hantman NEW YORK -- Revisiting a hallowed ritual for doctors, a committee within the Weill Cornell Medical College (WCMC) convened this spring to craft an updated Hippocratic Oath, one that responds to the state of modern medicine. Originally composed in ancient Greece, the oath expresses principles still fundamental to the practice of medicine today. Over the years, it has become an emotional rite of passage in medical school graduations across the world. On June 1, the college's new oath was unveiled at Commencement ceremonies for the WCMC and Graduate School of Medical Sciences. After Antonio M. Gotto Jr., dean of WCMC, administered the oath to the graduates, he invited the medical faculty and other physicians present to stand and recommit themselves to the oath's principles by raising their right hands. (The oath is at the end of this story.)
"With this gesture," Gotto said, "we will join our new colleagues in affirming the values that guide both our work and our lives."
The original Hippocratic Oath has been revised many times to reflect changes in medical practice, historically by individuals or professional associations. The new Weill Cornell oath is unusual because it represents a single institution's effort. Comprising faculty from both Weill Cornell campuses in New York City and Doha, Qatar, the 20-member Dean's Committee on the Hippocratic Oath included two senior associate deans, two associate deans, two student leaders and three department chairs. At Gotto's request, this representative committee was headed by Joseph J. Fins, chief of the Division of Medical Ethics and professor of medicine, public health and medicine in psychiatry.
The committee members took a scholarly, systematic and inclusive approach, enriching their knowledge with background reading and categorizing the key elements of earlier medical oaths, including the classical Hippocratic Oath; a well-known 1964 revision by Louis Lasagna; the Oath of Maimonides, a medieval Jewish philosopher; and an oath for Muslim physicians.
In addition to content, the committee examined the language of the oath. "We wanted to be respectful of the diversity of perspectives on faith and belief," explained Fins, "and to be mindful that there are a number of ways to express personal commitment." With this in mind, the members chose to replace phrases that have a religious connotation with more ecumenical expressions, such as changing "I swear" to the more secular "I vow." The revised oath ends on a more positive note than the classical version, which threatens retribution for any doctor who transgresses the oath and swears falsely. Revised, it reads: "I now turn to my calling, promising to preserve its finest traditions, with the reward of a long experience in the joy of healing." It concludes:


to be continued

115 justamomof4  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:28:49am

continued from above :
"I make this vow freely and upon my honor," again underscoring personal responsibility as a guidepost in one's profession.

The committee also considered the history of medicine, the enduring principles of medical practice, and the profound social and scientific changes affecting the profession today.

New emphases in the revised oath address doctors' responsibilities and duties to serve as advocates for their patients, champion social justice for the sick and forge strong bonds throughout the healing process.

The oath reaffirms a "sacred trust" between doctors and patients, reminding doctors to "use their power wisely." It also fosters trust and respect within the profession by including a pledge to help sustain colleagues in their service to humanity. In a culture preoccupied with wealth and power, the oath serves as an antidote to professional arrogance, obligating doctors to practice humility and self-awareness, accept their limitations and pursue lifelong learning to better care for the sick and prevent illness.

"It was so invigorating to have a group of colleagues together, talking about these important issues and thinking deeply about why we're here and what we're doing," Fins said. "It helped reconnect us as a group, and I hope it will encourage our broader college community to recommit to the values embodied in the oath."

The committee first met in February 2005 to discuss the core values of the oath in the context of 21st-century medicine.

"Our goal was to preserve the enduring precepts and obligations of doctoring, but also to make the oath reflective of some of the current challenges that the health-care system faces today, trying to balance the old with the new," Fins said. "We had to express the core principles in a more modern way; otherwise it becomes platitudinous."
-------------------------------------
Weill Cornell Medical College's Hippocratic Oath

I do solemnly vow, to that which I value and hold most dear:

That I will honor the Profession of Medicine, be just and generous to its members, and help sustain them in their service to humanity;

That just as I have learned from those who preceded me, so will I instruct those who follow me in the science and the art of medicine;

That I will recognize the limits of my knowledge and pursue lifelong learning to better care for the sick and to prevent illness;

That I will seek the counsel of others when they are more expert so as to fulfill my obligation to those who are entrusted to my care;

That I will not withdraw from my patients in their time of need;

That I will lead my life and practice my art with integrity and honor, using my power wisely;

That whatsoever I shall see or hear of the lives of my patients that is not fitting to be spoken, I will keep in confidence;

That into whatever house I shall enter, it shall be for the good of the sick;

That I will maintain this sacred trust, holding myself far aloof from wrong, from corrupting, from the tempting of others to vice;

That above all else I will serve the highest interests of my patients through the practice of my science and my art;

That I will be an advocate for patients in need and strive for justice in the care of the sick.

I now turn to my calling, promising to preserve its finest traditions, with the reward of a long experience in the joy of healing.

I make this vow freely and upon my honor..


.
**********to that which I value and hold most dear**********
We are all aware of what muhammedans value and hold most dear. . .the example of their beloved 'prophet' muhammad, an aggressive warrior who claimed that 'war is deception" - to devout followers, a model of the Perfect Man (uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil).

Nuts.

116 Caliredst8r  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:29:18am

I do appreciate the muslim dude who makes my morning coffee down at the Chevron station.

117 budvarakbar  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:29:26am

re: #28 savage_nation

re: #21 The Pulchritudinous Patriot


re: #18 THELAZYC

re: #2 savage_nation

These creatures never heard of the Hippocratic Oath, I guess

These "creatures" like everything else not Islamic and /or Sharia means nothing to them!

Which is why they're still stuck in the 1st century and will remain so.

And back in the day, the Muslim world was at the pinnacle of arts, science, medicine, and learning. What the FUCK happened?

That is BS -- all they had was what they stole from the Greeks, Jews, early ME Christians and the Persians - THEY ARE AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN NOTHING BUT THEIVES

118 sandbox  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:29:42am

Here is a great wedge issue against sharia.


Ban the Veil (and public mask wearing)

119 Spiny Norman  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:30:23am

re: #73 6pat6

And back in the day, the Muslim world was at the pinnacle of arts, science, medicine, and learning. What the FUCK happened?
They were NEVER the "pinnacle of learning", ever! Only the non-muslims (the dhimmis) and the non-believers that were living there during the time were the scholarly ones. Once they left (or were killed), there was nothing left but ignorance and hate.

For instance, the Iranians (Persians) claim to have come up with the concept of "zero" --- the Hindus beat them to it be several hundred years. Chess? Supposedly from China, rather than Persia, but I don't know that for sure. Oh, and let's not forget their alleged "discovery" of North America...

Isn't islam wonderful!

Like a lot of things, chess passed from Asia (probably) to India to the Middle East on its way to Europe. The game as we know it today, "Western Chess", was essentially "invented" in pre-Islamic Persia, (the name "chess" is derived from the Persian "shah") and brought to Europe by the Ottomans. The current pieces and their names were created in Rennaisance France and Italy.

120 shmu  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:31:30am

why are these evil savagae barbarians even allowed to study medicine...they never invented any of it.. They cant theirs is a stagnant culture ....living in the 7th century

121 Babydoc97  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:31:35am

re: #58 marysaidno

Mary,

Abortion training is part of an OB/GYN residency, not for basic medical school. Those of us in the medical field who utterly abhor the murderous act of abortion (being openly honest about my bias...) don't usually go into the OB/GYN field. Those obstetricians who feel that abortion is murder are not required to perform abortions either, as it is always an elective procedure (from a medical standpoint, regardless of the political propaganda from the pro-abortion side of the aisle). If a patient comes to a doctor and requests a medical procedure that the doctor is unwilling to perform for religious or moral reasons, the concensus (at least in all the training programs and hospitals in which I have worked) is that the doctor provide the patient with a referral to a doctor who will perform the elective procedure.

There are OB training programs out there that will try to require residents to perform abortions. If you don't agree with it, then you select a different training program. We don't perform abortions in military hospitals, and the vast majority of military obstetricians do not want to perform abortions. Comparing the refusal to perform this elective, morally clouded procedure with muslims refusing to learn about basic disease processes and basic physical exam techniques is more moral relativism.

122 lennysquiggy  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:31:47am

How soon before the UK offers Muslim-only certification courses? I guarantee you this will end up with Muslim doctors given certification to treat only Muslim patients. Sharia Creep continues....

123 FrogMarch  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:32:13am

re: #63 DistantThunder

A abortion is rarely ever a medical necessity. it's a choice. Muslims refusing to learn about certain diseases or treat certain patients is an entirely different situation. dont you think?

The leftist may throw that up - but it's a bogus argument.

124 BrianA  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:32:34am

re: #63 DistantThunder

I agree that this is idiocy, but leftists can throw back in our faces those Christian doctors who refuse to perform abortions. It is a tricky issue since it would be important to know how to save the life of a mother and perform a necessary emergency abortion - but there are so few of those cases - how does one practice?

A distant family member was talked into an abortion when she was told her gallbladder was failing. She had the abortion - then turns out there was no problem with the gallbladder. i don't know if that was just a cover story.

There's a big difference here. Students refusing to learn some part of their core cirriculum is very different than a medical graduate refusing to perform a procedure which is elective in most cases. Students who refuse to learn the cirriculum considered core to their degree should be flunked out. PERIOD!

125 find your Violent Jihadi on Ebay!  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:33:40am

re: #93 Allah al Fubar

I like my Jewish doctor. He's kind, considerate, caring and he has little tiny fingers.

Can't remember the last time I saw a Jewish doctor around here, in northern Virginia. Perhaps 15 years ago, that was the norm. Where'd they all go? Who knows. Nowadays, almost every medical professional in the area is Moslem, and if you don't like it (as I don't), then don't get sick. Yet another prestigious profession vacated by the west as the best and brightest send in their resumes to hedge funds, because making $150,000 a year to do something useful and dignified doesn't compete with making $2,000,000 right out of school to push papers around and "manage money".

People focus so much on the Chinese taking over manufacturing, which is all true, but it's the evacuation of the skilled professions by our most talented resources that should have people very concerned.

126 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:35:08am

The Muslim Doctors and Dentisits Association UK


2.1 The objects of the association shall be:-
2.1.1. To advance the Islamic religion in the practice of medicine in the United Kingdom
2.1.2. To advance medical education in relation to the doctrines, practices and traditions of the Islamic religion.
2.1.3. To promote research in various aspects of medical science and to disseminate and publish the useful results of such research.
2.1.4. To promote the preservation and protection of the good health of Muslims in the United Kingdom. . . .

There is no doubt about Muslims failure and inability to integrate into Western culture. Imagine a Christian doctors association only caring about the welfare of their own.

127 FrogMarch  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:35:31am

re: #66 asshander

Does this mean that only women muslim doctors can perform female genital mutilation?

The Muslims will soon have their own special universities for that.
(w/ Foot baths in the main lobby.)

128 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:37:13am

re: #122 lennysquiggy

How soon before the UK offers Muslim-only certification courses? I guarantee you this will end up with Muslim doctors given certification to treat only Muslim patients. Sharia Creep continues....

Yes...yes it does...

In a UK for first time, Muslim motorists will have a purpose built prayer facility to offer daily prayers, courtesy efforts of a Preston-based charity. It has been granted the necessary licence to accommodate Muslim travellers, who up until now had struggled to follow their faith when on the road. If successful, the charity hopes to acquire other prayer facilities at other busy UK service stations for that moment of solace and reflection before you hit the road again.

129 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:37:46am

#90 savage_nation
No response? You seemed so proud of your point earlier I was hoping you'd defend it for us.

130 looking closely  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:38:03am

re: #75 Killgore Trout

re: #63 DistantThunder

I agree. There are also plenty of Christian pharmacists who refuse to fill orders for birth control and RU-486. Those who won't do their jobs need to find another line of work.

Here the analogy would be pharmacy students refusing to learn how birth control medications worked. . .

Again, if you are a private practice physician, you can treat (or not treat) anyone you like, though once you accept a person as a patient, you are obligated to give them proper treatment. So while it may be slimy, and unprofessional to refuse to treat women (for example), nobody can really force you to do that. In a free-market system, some other physician will come along happy to take the business you refuse to take. Just like you could get your prescription from another pharmacy or even mail-order.

But in Britain, you work for the gov't. You don't have the right to turn away patients or decide that you aren't going to treat a certain gender or class of disease. So this kind of refusal is bogus.

131 reine.de.tout  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:38:08am

re: #1 pegcity

let me guess no one in Iran ever gets the Clap

And no Palestinian ever gets AIDS.

132 Catttt  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:38:12am

I actually think it is just fine if they refuse to learn all that they must - as long as it is very clear that they cannot become physicians. They do not belong in the profession.

133 spam spam spam spam  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:39:13am

re: #100 NJDhockeyfan

Wow. That's one to send to the "Christians are just as bad as Muslims" crowd.

134 Sharmuta  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:39:41am

re: #12 father_of_10

re: #2 savage_nation

These creatures never heard of the Hippocratic Oath, I guess

No, they take the hypocritic oath instead. I think it's in the Koran.

While I get your joke, I just want to add the teachings of Hippocrates are in the koran.

135 DoubleU  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:40:21am

Inch by inch, they’re insinuating shari’a law into every part of British society.
and inch by inch the democrats are inserting communism in to our country.

136 Drained Brain  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:40:26am

re: #100 NJDhockeyfan

Are there witches in SA?

Maid arrested after Saudi employer 'bewitched'


RIYADH (AFP) — Saudi Arabia's religious police have arrested a domestic worker accused of having put a spell on her employer, the Al-Madina newspaper reported on Sunday.
The arrest of the maid, whose nationality was not revealed, followed a complaint by the wife of the employer who she said had been "bewitched by the maid".

The woman said she suspected her husband had been put under a spell because he fiercely defended the maid from criticism every time she neglected her work.

Members of the religious police, known as Mutawas, discovered "talismans and products of charlatanism" in a search of the maid's quarters in the eastern city of Damman, the newspaper added.

The paper said the maid, who is to face trial, "admitted she took refuge in sorcery so as to make her employers like her".

"The bewitched husband adored the maid and carried out all her wishes, unbeknownst to his wife," the newspaper said.

Saudi's feared religious police are tasked with enforcing respect for public morals. Witchcraft is a capital offence in Saudi Arabia, where Sharia law is strictly applied.

Can we look forward to a pilot show on Saudi tv titled Bewitched? Of course, it would be in the listings under reality tv rather than comedy but still...

137 Highrise  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:40:58am

It is clear to me they wish to infiltrate every honorable profession and water it down. They have said as much about getting their people to infiltrate the police and military.

Hearing the muslim uk dentist story about making the women patients wear a hijab if they come in and hearing this, doesn't surprise me. What's next? Engineering muslim students refusing to learn aspects of math and science that may help build defense systems against islamic nations due to their tainted belief system?

138 ibrodsky  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:41:03am

Islam, the religion of jihad-genocide, is incompatible with medicine, the art of saving lives.

139 eff plus  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:41:04am

Further proof that Islam needs to be completely re-understood. It is not a religion; it is a fanatical cult and an enemy political system that seeks to supplant Western political systems. Treat it accordingly.

140 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:41:08am
141 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:41:53am
142 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:42:17am

re: #130 looking closely

Even here in the US most pharmacists aren't independent contractors. They're employed by a pharmacy and should be willing to provide services provided by their employers or seek work elsewhere. Same thing goes for doctors working in hospitals or HMO's. Private practice is another story, they can do what they want.

143 PineCone  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:42:45am

Medical students try to cherry pick subjects based on their belief system should be dismissed from medical school and never be eligible to apply again at that school or any other school in the West.

144 kreigwagon  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:43:28am

ot

On this day A blow to Islam and a Payback

Yeah, all praise the Great Religion of Peace

/

145 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:43:30am

re: #141 savage_nation

Ok, just making sure you weren't

ducking

the issue.
/I'm very punny

146 Caliredst8r  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:43:30am

Ire: #128 NJDhockeyfan

Interesting. I never saw anything like that during my travels in the Magic Kingdom and Kuwait. At prayer time it wasn't unusual to see a line of asses in the air, looking comically like pigs at a trough, along the shoulder of the roads. Funny how SA and other Muslim countries didn't see the need for special motorist mosques, yet in Britain they need it?

147 looking closely  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:43:46am

re: #99 ibrodsky

There has already been a report of a Jewish patient in the U.S. dying due to the neglect of a Muslim emergency room doctor.

It happened in Skokie, Illinois and has been written about by Debbie Schlussel.

You have to be careful about these kinds of stories because the claims and the facts are often divergent. Emergency room misunderstandings, unfortunately, are not uncommon.

But assuming the premise is true, an ER physician who refused to treat a patient based on their religious convictions would not only engender massive personal liability (ie malpractice), but they could also have their license to practice medicine suspended or revoked, possibly a career ending move.

148 justamomof4  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:44:19am
#28 Savage_Nation
And back in the day, the Muslim world was at the pinnacle of arts, science, medicine, and learning. What the FUCK happened?

Fjordman brilliantly destroys this presumption of Islam ever justifiably earning the title "pinnacle of" science, medicine, learning etc. . .. in his latest three part essay:

Islam, the Greeks and Scientific Revolution
Part I
Part II
Part III

149 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:44:37am
150 Geepers  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:44:44am

BrianA (#124),

Students who refuse to learn the cirriculum considered core to their degree should be flunked out. PERIOD!

See the update:

[Professor Peter Rubin, chairman of the GMC’s education committee] said trainees who refused to carry out these parts of their courses would not be allowed to graduate because ‘prejudicing treatment on the grounds of patients’ gender or their responsibility for their condition would run counter to the most basic principles of ethical medical practice.’
151 jamgarr  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:45:08am

David Horowitz kicking ass on C-SPAN!

152 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:45:56am

re: #104 Killgore Trout

re: #90 savage_nation

Bingo! That's the reaction I was fishing for. I find it odd that people can complain about Islamists silencing free speech while cheering when Christians do it. You're comfortable with that?

Hardly "cheering". Some people seem to believe that the proper alternative to extreme Muslim suppression of sexuality is the polar opposite: Folsom Street style wanton depravity.

Traditional Western culture provided reasonable middle ground. A balance is needed, but Sharia and Folsom Street are equally evil for opposite reasons.

As for Serrano, I do not condone destroying "art" in this manner, however neither do I condone the modern celebration of ugliness and depravity as "art". The purpose of art is to reveal Truth and Beauty. The postmodern cabal has inverted this, with predictably unwholesome and unedifying results.

Freedom and Liberty DO NOT mean "cultural free-for-all where anything goes". Neither the Founders nor any other great thinkers in history intended this. That "philosophy" is brought to you by the same people who believe Bush is pure evil while Castro is a hero.

153 kreigwagon  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:46:31am

re: #144 kreigwagon

ot

On this day A blow to Islam and a Payback

Yeah, all praise the Great Religion of Peace

/

On this day in history

/PIMF...sorry

154 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:46:44am
155 wanumba  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:47:20am

For YEARS, multitudes of Muslim doctors have practiced very well and without prejudice and were perfectly normal, all over the world. Now, suddenly everyone is all picky? This is a direct result of the Islamofascist ideology indoctrination. A new input, and foreign manipulated.
Weed em out. There are NICE people out there with genuine compassion and ability.
It's too bad the creeps will make everyone distrust Muslim doctors, but it's all part of the Islamofascist scheme of isolation of all Muslims, whether they like it or not, from general society. The nasties desire to take the decent people down with them.

The wild card in all this is: when will Muslims who've been so abused by the Islamofascists, take this profound step: If this be Islam, then I'm not a Muslim. Hirsi ALi did it ... anyone truly think she's the ONLY one out there? Walid Safi ... there are enormous stresses out there. It can break a number of different ways.

156 mattm  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:47:30am

Just another example of Muslims trying to introduce shaira law into the west, and the west bending over backwards to not "offend" them.

157 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:50:31am
158 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:50:35am

Swedish Web sites targeted by Turkish hackers after publication of Muhammad drawing

STOCKHOLM, Sweden: Hackers in Turkey have attacked more than 5,000 Swedish Web sites in the past week, and at least some of the sabotage appears linked to a Swedish newspaper's publication of a disparaging caricature of Islam's prophet, an Internet company and a media watchdog said Sunday.

Around 1,600 Web sites hosted by server-provider Proinet and 3,800 sites hosted by another company have been targeted, Proinet spokesman Kjetil Jensen said.

Jensen said the hackers, operating on a Turkish network, removed all files on the Web sites and in some cases replaced them with messages.

According to Swedish news agency TT, the Web site of a children's cartoon called Bamse was replaced by a message saying Islam's holy prophet had been insulted.

159 BrianA  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:50:51am

re: #125 find your Violent Jihadi on Ebay!

re: #93 Allah al Fubar


I like my Jewish doctor. He's kind, considerate, caring and he has little tiny fingers.

Can't remember the last time I saw a Jewish doctor around here, in northern Virginia. Perhaps 15 years ago, that was the norm. Where'd they all go? Who knows. Nowadays, almost every medical professional in the area is Moslem, and if you don't like it (as I don't), then don't get sick. Yet another prestigious profession vacated by the west as the best and brightest send in their resumes to hedge funds, because making $150,000 a year to do something useful and dignified doesn't compete with making $2,000,000 right out of school to push papers around and "manage money".

People focus so much on the Chinese taking over manufacturing, which is all true, but it's the evacuation of the skilled professions by our most talented resources that should have people very concerned.

Those of you that don't like the infiltration of foreign doctors onto our society can thank your favorite HMO. Foreign doctors never saw a piss poor contract/ fee schedule that they would not sign. They'll work for peanuts because peanuts are better that what they would make back home. The big insurance companies love it cause they hold down cost and increase profit. Now the brightest college students are looking for other professions where the money will be better and come faster. In order to fill the void, more foreign doctors.
/bitter indignation

160 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:50:59am

re: #152 Pro-Bush Canuck

It was private art displayed in a private gallery. Christian or Muslim sensitivities should have no jurisdiction over what pictures display. It's even worsened by the fact that these people took it on themselves to destroy the pictures. It's despicable no matter who did it, and it's a troubling sign that Christians have the same potential and desire to enforce their will on others.

161 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:51:40am

re: #157 savage_nation
Happy Thanksgiving!

162 Pope Insouciance IV  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:51:53am

Abortion is sometimes medically necessary. It can be a legitimate medical option. Therefore it is not unreasonable for a medical school to insist that its graduates know how to perform the operation, even if they choose not to later. However, if that doctor determines that the procedure is necessary for a patient, he/she is required to refer the patient to a competent doctor who will help.

Same thing in this case. It is reasonable (to say the least!) for the medical school to insist that these idjits know the diseases and the procedures, even if later on they would choose not to treat, say, alcoholics for their alcoholism. He must help the alcoholic to get effective treatment. The doctor can decide not to see any female patients in his private practice, although getting affiliated with a hospital may be dicey for him. If he has to do a shift in the hospital he follows hospital rules, not his own.

You can't have the students decide what is necessary and sufficient in the classroom for admission into a profession. That's nuts.

163 savage_nation[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:52:13am
164 Drained Brain  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:52:14am

re: #158 NJDhockeyfan

Swedish Web sites targeted by Turkish hackers after publication of Muhammad drawing


STOCKHOLM, Sweden: Hackers in Turkey have attacked more than 5,000 Swedish Web sites in the past week, and at least some of the sabotage appears linked to a Swedish newspaper's publication of a disparaging caricature of Islam's prophet, an Internet company and a media watchdog said Sunday.

Around 1,600 Web sites hosted by server-provider Proinet and 3,800 sites hosted by another company have been targeted, Proinet spokesman Kjetil Jensen said.

Jensen said the hackers, operating on a Turkish network, removed all files on the Web sites and in some cases replaced them with messages.

According to Swedish news agency TT, the Web site of a children's cartoon called Bamse was replaced by a message saying Islam's holy prophet had been insulted.

Maybe we infidels should be grateful they're hacking sites rather than heads.

165 Desert Dog  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:54:15am

These doctors should be banned and their medical licenses stripped. If students site religious reasons for not wanting to attend to certain illnesses or ailments, they the should be shown the door. This is like a person telling an engineering school that they do not believe in gravity, therefore, they will not factor any of that "gravity nonsense" into designing that bridge. Why are they even talking about this over there? If they cannot disconnect themselves from their religion, and that religion goes against the standards and expectations of a certain profession, then they should be told they cannot enter that profession. When will this bending over to make them happy nonsense end? Or, should I ask, when will the UK just give up and let Sharia Law take over?

166 Pro-Bush Canuck  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 11:56:47am

re: #160 Killgore Trout

re: #152 Pro-Bush Canuck

It was private art displayed in a private gallery. Christian or Muslim sensitivities should have no jurisdiction over what pictures display. It's even worsened by the fact that these people took it on themselves to destroy the pictures. It's despicable no matter who did it, and it's a troubling sign that Christians have the same potential and desire to enforce their will on others.

Kilgore, with all due respect, you are sounding like the one thing I truly cannot stand on this board: conflation of Islam and Christianity. I think I'll drop this topic, thanks.

167 SeafoodGumbo  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:00:31pm

A couple other posters have linked to Debbie Schlussel in this thread, but not to her list of Muslim Doctor Jihadists and Terrorists. That same post also shows that The Islamic Medical Association of North America's "Oath of a Muslim Physician" leaves something to be desired.

Especially vile among the list of [bigoted word]/terrorist/doctor ghouls is one hightlighted in her post on a Los Angeles Muslim doc who hastened his patient's death to harvest his organs.

168 looking closely  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:01:25pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

re: #130 looking closely

Even here in the US most pharmacists aren't independent contractors. They're employed by a pharmacy and should be willing to provide services provided by their employers or seek work elsewhere. Same thing goes for doctors working in hospitals or HMO's. Private practice is another story, they can do what they want.

That's a different thing.

If you work for a hospital, military, or private pharmacy, you have to dispense what's on the formulary, per the rules of the institution, and if you don't you're subject to being disciplined, fired, etc. So that's clear.

If you don't fill scripts you should, not only are you subject to being fired, but your employer is also potentially liable for your failure, so they have a strong incentive to make sure you don't set policy by yourself.

Now, on the other hand, if you own a proverbial "Mom and Pop" pharmacy, you can stock whatever you like in your formulary. Nobody can force you to stock RU-486 anymore than they can force you to stock Viagra or Robitussin-DM or oxycontin.

As far as I know, they don't exist, but its probably not unreasonable to have laws requiring pharmacies to dispense medications in stock to anyone with a valid presciption. In other words if you control the formulary you'd have to choose whether or not you are willing to fill prescriptions for RU-486, or birth control up front. If you don't want to do so at all, you don't have to, but if you decide you want to carry those meds, then you don't get the choice of making moral judgements about who you will or won't provide them to. I think this is a fair and reasonable solution to this "problem".

169 Bob's Kid  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:01:43pm

Well, I'd refuse to learn how to do abortions, because under no circumstances would I do one...not sure how that compares to this, but there you have it.

170 debutaunt  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:03:50pm

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA re: #93 Allah al Fubar

171 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:04:01pm

re: #166 Pro-Bush Canuck

Ok, I win!

172 LeftJustAintRight  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:04:19pm

re: #20 Caliredst8r

Why do they become doctors when their cult religion puts so many constraints on what they can actually do? Who treats the women in Muslim countries if women aren't allowed to be educated and the male doctors won't treat them?


You missed that point all together
Women do not get treated for illness because it is Mo's will.
It is easier for the muslims to let the women suffer before they die,then the men will not have to expend the energy to stone them to death.
F=ing muslim's,makes you wounder how they survived thousands of years.
Dumbass me,has not the western society propped them up all these years?

173 kreigwagon  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:04:26pm

and also on this day in 1944:

Birkenau revolt


Jewish Sonderkommandos (those inmates kept separate from the main camp and put to work in the gas chambers and crematoria) of Birkenau Kommando III staged an uprising. They attacked the SS with makeshift weapons: stones, axes, hammers, other work tools and homemade grenades. They caught the SS guards by surprise, overpowered them and blew up the Crematorium IV...
174 Perplexed  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:06:23pm

So fail them and send them packing. I don't want a doctor touching either me or any member of my family if he/she won't address any medical issue for whatever the reason.

175 Babydoc97  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:08:00pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Sorry, but you are really trying to work this moral relativism thing, aren't you?

I'm at work today waiting to do a procedure on a patient, so I'm condensing some responses to a number of posts upstream:

1) The original Hippocratic Oath clearly included statmentents PROHIBITING participation in abortion, to include use of pessaries (ie birth control/morning after type meds) to induce abortion. This is the main reason so many US medical schools either altered the Oath or stopped using it entirely to avoid annoying the pro-abortion lobby.

2) I think the Nuremberg trials did away with the concept of "I was just following orders..." as a justification for doing something wrong. Just because you don't have an ethical problem with abortion or abortificient birth control pills does not mean you (or my boss) have the right to force me to engage in such practicies. If you don't want to hire me as an employee because I refuse to write prescriptions for OCPs, then don't hire me. Trust me....someone else will.

3) No medical student is required to perform an abortion. It is not part of medical school training. Should a medical student desire to become an abortionist, then he or she could request to perform a rotation under an abortionist as part of an OB/GYN rotation, and could select an OB/GYN residency that includes training in the elective procedure.

4) The only realistic medical situation where someone could reasonably argue that an abortion is REQUIRED to save the life of the mother would be in a disease such as cancer that requires either chemotherapy or significant radiation therapy at a time period prior to when the infant (or fetus, if you must be a word-purist) would be viable, roughly 23 weeks and 5 days estimated gestational age. There is no other realistic solely medical reason to terminate the infant. All the propaganda about the "health of the mother" is obfuscation covering the real reason...that the mother (or those pressuring the mother to abort) doesn't want to deal with the inconvenience of giving birth - and/or is too selfish to consider giving the infant up for adoption.

5) Again - refusing to participate in a procedure because of the belief that a life is being terminated is a far cry from refusing to answer questions about opposite gender anatomy or alcohol-induced disease processes that your refusal to treat may result in the death of your patient. This is topsy-turvy moral relativism at its worst.

176 debutaunt  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:09:11pm

re: #123 FrogMarch
Oddly enough, abortion is made necessary after genital mutilation. AHA tells how the female reproductive system is also mutilated.

177 Karagush  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:11:06pm

re: #119 Spiny Norman

And the Chinese/Central Asian form of the game is called "Shashka" in Asia Minor.

178 BrianA  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:12:12pm

re: #175 Babydoc97

Ditto that!

179 yesandno  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:12:20pm

re: #70 looking closely

The premise here is ridiculous.

Obviously you don't have to condone alcoholism to treat the disease or its consequences.

Also, you can be monogamous and sexually faithful and still get a sexually transmitted disease from sexual assault or from your unfaithful spouse. Having a sexual disease doesn't necessarily mean a moral lapse on the part of the person having one (even if ipso facto being raped is viewed as the fault of the one being raped by Muslim law).

Its also worth mentioning that even if you don't want to treat alcohol-related or sexually transmitted diseases as a physician, you still have to be able to recognize, diagnose, and understand them, at the very least to exclude them from the differential diagnosis in your patients.

So there is no excuse for this nonsense.

There you go trying to make sense of all of this. Of course he cannot treat a sexually transmitted disease. If the origin was in a male/male relationship it couldn't be because they don't have those kind of relationships...remember Iran? If the origins were between a man and a woman, he would be obligated to find the woman and stone her. And, or course, if it were from a sheep or goat....well that's what the veterinarians are for...selling the meat to another village.

/I'll take blood letting for $1000, Alex.........

180 budvarakbar  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:12:49pm

re: #159 BrianA

re: #125 find your Violent Jihadi on Ebay!


re: #93 Allah al Fubar

I like my Jewish doctor. He's kind, considerate, caring and he has little tiny fingers.

Can't remember the last time I saw a Jewish doctor around here, in northern Virginia. Perhaps 15 years ago, that was the norm. Where'd they all go? Who knows. Nowadays, almost every medical professional in the area is Moslem, and if you don't like it (as I don't), then don't get sick. Yet another prestigious profession vacated by the west as the best and brightest send in their resumes to hedge funds, because making $150,000 a year to do something useful and dignified doesn't compete with making $2,000,000 right out of school to push papers around and "manage money".
People focus so much on the Chinese taking over manufacturing, which is all true, but it's the evacuation of the skilled professions by our most talented resources that should have people very concerned.

Those of you that don't like the infiltration of foreign doctors onto our society can thank your favorite HMO. Foreign doctors never saw a piss poor contract/ fee schedule that they would not sign. They'll work for peanuts because peanuts are better that what they would make back home. The big insurance companies love it cause they hold down cost and increase profit. Now the brightest college students are looking for other professions where the money will be better and come faster. In order to fill the void, more foreign doctors.
/bitter indignation


And do NOT leave out the obvious -- minority status

181 stevieray  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:12:59pm

re: #155 wanumba

For YEARS, multitudes of Muslim doctors have practiced very well and without prejudice and were perfectly normal, all over the world. Now, suddenly everyone is all picky? This is a direct result of the Islamofascist ideology indoctrination. A new input, and foreign manipulated. Weed em out. There are NICE people out there with genuine compassion and ability

.

I have no doubt that this is true... that for years Muslim doctors have been no different than any other doctor. But this leads me to the Big Question... which version of Islam is the true version?

Since the end of WWI and the fall of the Ottoman Empire, Islam has been the weakest its ever been... incapable of expansion (a foundational principal) or doctrinal purity. Judging the intents and/or capabilities of Islam by its actions during this time frame will give us a false picture of the faith... it will seem weak, and even tolerant... not due to its essential nature, but due to external forces beyond its control.

In short, the "nice Muslim doctor/lawyer/shopkeeper down the street" syndrome could be an inadvertent Trojan horse... a harmless neighbor, but only because he had to be. We risk inflicting endless civil war upon our future generations if the ummah revert back to their "glory days"; the times when the sword of Islam slashed its way across the globe. We need to understand which Islam we are getting before we allow it any more inroads.

182 spam spam spam spam  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:14:37pm

re: #144 kreigwagon

ot

On this day A blow to Islam and a Payback

Yeah, all praise the Great Religion of Peace
/

Thank you for posting those links (Today being the anniversary of the Battle of Lepanto, 1571 & Achille Lauro attack). We in the civilized world need to remember & be proud of our history.

183 MODERATIONIST[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:15:27pm
184 Opinionated  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:16:26pm

Look, there are only so many hours in the day.

If they treated everyone, where would they get the time to learn the Jihad Way- Bombmaking 101.

185 Allah al Fubar  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:17:31pm

re: #175 Babydoc97

Outstanding post.

186 looking closely  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:18:49pm

re: #162 Pope Insouciance IV

Abortion is sometimes medically necessary. It can be a legitimate medical option. Therefore it is not unreasonable for a medical school to insist that its graduates know how to perform the operation, even if they choose not to later. However, if that doctor determines that the procedure is necessary for a patient, he/she is required to refer the patient to a competent doctor who will help.

Same thing in this case. It is reasonable (to say the least!) for the medical school to insist that these idjits know the diseases and the procedures, even if later on they would choose not to treat, say, alcoholics for their alcoholism. He must help the alcoholic to get effective treatment. The doctor can decide not to see any female patients in his private practice, although getting affiliated with a hospital may be dicey for him. If he has to do a shift in the hospital he follows hospital rules, not his own.

You can't have the students decide what is necessary and sufficient in the classroom for admission into a profession. That's nuts.

Well, no, actually.
Most medical (and almost all surgical) procedures are learned during postgraduate medical training (ie "residency"), not during medical school.

And that makes perfect sense. If I am going to become an internist, why I am going to spend the many hours necessary to learn how to remove appendixes or brain tumors, when I am never going to do that in practice? Necessary or not, very few physicians are ever going to need facility in performing abortions as part of their legitimate practices.

Consequently, if learned, abortions are learned as part of residencies in Obstetrics and Gynecology (ie not in medical school). Medical students may (rarely) get to actually see the procedure done in medical school, but they're not going to do them.

As a matter of practice some residencies do NOT expose their residents to abortions, elective, or otherwise for a variety of reasons. But also as a matter of practice, an elective abortion is no more than a common D&C (dilatation and currettage), a procedure familiar to just about every practicing OB.

So even if you don't physically perform them in your OB residency, with any reasonable training anywhere, you'd still be competent at doing them from just general practice in OB. If you needed to, you could learn pretty easily. . .abortions aren't exactly brain surgery.

Now what *is* absolutely reasonable for any medical school to require its students to learn are how to recognize, diagnose, and treat the symptoms and signs of alcohol-related and sexually transmitted diseases, along with knowledge of the associated pathology. That's just elementary stuff that any doctor needs to know about regardless of area of practice.

187 marysaidno  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:19:30pm

Abortion training IS part of the curriculum in some US medical schools and there are those who wish it was required in all medical schools. The article below discusses this (I have not read the whole thing yet.)

[Link: tinyurl.com...]

188 debutaunt  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:20:01pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout
Slam dunk, Mr. Trout.

189 CrimsonFisted  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:20:11pm

re: #61 Spiny Norman

I would agree. In the emergency room I have been treated by kind, skilled, thoughtful Indian doctors.

190 Killgore Trout  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:20:52pm

re: #175 Babydoc97

I stopped reading at "Nuremberg trials". Sounds like you have a case of moral relativism. Physician, heal thyself.

191 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:21:15pm
192 Paul  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:22:00pm

So now England is faced with the dismal prospect of a socialized, taxpayer funded, national health care system and an upcoming cadre of doctors who demand the right to pick and chose who they will treat. Medical soup nazis.

Advice to English kaffirs: stay healthy, avoid pubs, practice abstinence and think holistically.

193 Allah al Fubar  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:23:28pm

re: #183 MODERATIONIST

When is some brave Christian leader going to start issuing videos condemning the vile practices of these monsters? And saying that muslims do not worship the god of the bible or they wouldn't be preaching hatred and killing of hindus, buddhists, christians, and jews.


That's a great question. I see the threat to my family and my Jewish, Catholic, Hindu, Sikh and Wiccan friends (to name a few). Whenever I bring up the islamic issue, they wring their hands and dart their eyes... they even call me names.

Fear and PC dominates our culture. But I'll tell you this: If they dare to attack us at our heart (killing our children), islamism will cease to exist and will be rightfully put in its place along with Nazism, Communism, Stalinism, etc.. islam is NOT a religion.

194 debutaunt  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:24:29pm

re: #192 Paul
Government healthcare - this is what can and will go wrong.

195 Allah al Fubar  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:25:17pm
196 BrianA  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:25:36pm

re: #190 Killgore Trout

re: #175 Babydoc97

I stopped reading at "Nuremberg trials". Sounds like you have a case of moral relativism. Physician, heal thyself.

Hope you never have to hear "patient, heal thyself".

197 Catttt  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:29:36pm

The doctor who saved my life (he insisted on an immediate biopsy after the hospital said wait six months) is of Jewish background. He called me, on his own, in the evening, to insist I come in to see his partner.

His partner, who did the biopsy and the operation (I had breast cancer) is of Muslim / Arabic extraction.

Thanks, guys, for my life.

198 LeftJustAintRight  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:30:06pm

We need western doctors to stop wasting time trying to cure cancer and aids.
The AMA needs to find a cure for being an islamicnut.
When they finish that,they can get back to the real diseases.


"We all know the cure for islamicnuts but we cannot cure them because we are not the barbarians they are"

199 rawmuse  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:30:44pm

I dunno, I am fresh out of give a damn for the Brits. They apparently love the [bigoted word]s, so let the chains of dhimmitude hang heavy around their worthy necks. Just don't come to the US to pull their nuts out the fire again.

200 looking closely  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:32:42pm

re: #175 Babydoc97

Agreed, but as a few points of clarification:

As you point out the true oath of Hypocrates is a relic, and literally nobody swears it anymore, but rather a modernized version. The actual oath isn't really relevant anymore, though some of the principles involved (ie confidentiality, etc) still are.

In terms of whats involved, again its not rocket science. An abortion could just be a D&C, something familiar to most OBs regardless of training (Older/bigger fetuses could require a more invasive D&E, or D&X). Medical students could (and IMO should) be exposed to that procedure, even if not done specifically for the purpose of abortion (eg its also done to diagnose and treat various endometrial diseases).

I don't think most (or any) medical schools offer elective rotations in abortions, though I suppose an enterprising medical student could probably find one somewhere.

201 Caliredst8r  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:41:09pm

re: #172 LeftJustAintRight


As jihadi incubators are they that expendable? I'm sure a lot of them get shipped off to the West to be treated, at least until the UK and the EU extend their socialized medicine to cover the populations of the Islamic countries.

202 Wishbone  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:41:29pm

re: #192 Paul

Advice to English kaffirs: stay healthy, avoid pubs, practice abstinence and think holistically.

Stay healthy : Good advice

Avoid pubs : Are you mental?..........We're British.

Practice abstinence : Personally, I abstain from drinking bleach, but it takes allsorts. As for anything else, whatevers good to abstain from I suppose.

Think holistically : We would, only some bastard keeps having away with our 'give-a-fuck' modules. We think it's Gordon Brown, but he's keeping Shtum.

re: #199 rawmuse


I dunno, I am fresh out of give a damn for the Brits.

Ah, don't worry. We still love you. We've always had a soft spot for clowns.

203 lennysquiggy  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:44:06pm

#128 NJDhockeyfan:

Wow. Just wow.

204 Daybrother  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 12:45:50pm

When I was in medical school there were a few Muslim students and some always asked about the patient's religion in the history---something that is simply never done (except on admit forms completed by the nurses) and of zero importance; it might even be illegal. Later on, in clinicals, I was in the room once with a Muslim doc who was interviewing a Muslim male with a tinea (fungal infection); he asked the guy if he was married and when the guy said no, he wrote that the guy had never been sexually active. I remember that same year I had an Indian friend who was hooked up with another Muslim resident in the same program for a rotation. The Muslim refused to even speak to him for the entire 4 weeks. I got my only "B" on a rotation at another hospital where the attending was a Muslim. I was told later by several people that that was the highest grade he gave INFIDELS.

205 Maximu§  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:05:35pm

These "students" should be thrown out of medical school and given a urinal brush for their new job.

Maximu§
3/11 ACR

206 American Jewess In Jerusalem  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:07:23pm

Not to worry, Shaaria boys! American HMO's have plenty of positions open for Muslim quacks.

207 Maximu§  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:15:39pm

re: #206 American Jewess In Jerusalem

Not to worry, Shaaria boys! American HMO's have plenty of positions open for Muslim quacks.

Imagine the day a close family member or yours has Cancer and when the doctor walks in, he's a Pakistani.....I would ask for an American Doctor, I don't want some Quack from the Middle-East working on my Infidel wife or child.

Does that me raciest?......then so be it. If Muslims can be raciest towards me and my kind, then Ill return it.

Maximu§
3/11 ACR

208 Airedale  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:18:09pm

refuse to "learn" ?
ignorance is bliss

209 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:20:48pm
210 NY Nana  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:23:39pm

Mark Steyn on the UK...I ♥ Mark Steyn!

211 zawg  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:26:29pm

#58 Marysaidno

Could you name one medical school or US medical residency program that REQUIRES currently (or ever did) a medical student or physician-in-training to learn/and/or perform an abortion (fully elective on the mother's part) as a mandatory perquisite? In Jan 1973 in NYC I walked out of the OR (as an intern myself) immediately, after asking the OB starting to do a D &C what the "indication" was after he turned and stared at me over his green mask.."PG termination"..#58..I had no repercussions..this was before Roe V Wade...New York then the only state with legal abortion...I'm certain you cannot reply truthfully to my post with details, so stop the moral relatavism between Muslim physicians vis a vis patients with alcohol or STD problems...I had to hold my nose even replying to your post....

212 NY Nana  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:29:53pm

re: #209 buzzsawmonkey

Buzz

Here is their hist0ry../they use an hypocritic oath.

A lot of links, but worth the read.

213 Daisy  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:30:02pm

So, if they don't get to graduate medical school, will they still be allowed to become ( in some way or another) govt. sponsored health care jihadists driving their SUV's into airport windows, etc.? Come on now, it's not too sporting to disallow all benefits of their medical training!

214 kmclay  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:30:55pm

OT but related:
Get a load of Randy Cohen, aka The Ethicist over at today's NY Slimes Sunday Mag...

A patient came to the E.R. where I work, and a nurse gave him a preliminary evaluation. When the patient saw my name, he refused to be examined by a Muslim doctor. I couldn’t reach his primary physician, and the other physician on call was also Muslim. A physician assistant offered to complete the evaluation, but as the patient was in no immediate danger, I did not allow this. Instead I discharged the patient without a full evaluation. Was I right? — Ali Mohamed Osman, M.D., Houston

You were right not to capitulate to religious bigotry, but you might have handled this a little differently. When the patient refused to be seen by a Muslim doctor, you should have told him that your hospital does not assign doctors based on religion — that would be both unethical and illegal — and then reiterated your willingness to examine him. If he remained obdurate, the decision to refuse treatment would have been his, not yours, a choice he has the right to make even if he does so for mutton-headed reasons.

Although the physician assistant was willing to step in, you did well to forbid it. To allow such an accommodation — Can I show you something in a nice Reform Jew? Perhaps something more Presbyterian? — is to abet religious discrimination.

Still, I am uneasy with your discharging this fellow without a full evaluation.

As you no doubt know, there are legal requirements for examining and releasing an E.R. patient. While he may have been in no danger at that time, he could have laid subsequent problems at your door.

To your credit, you showed admirable restraint by not pushing the patient’s gurney down a flight of steps as a less temperate person (me) might have — raising the question of why an intemperate person with no medical training (me) was working in the E.R.

Okay, so they can refuse to treat certain dhimmi illnesses but dhimmis can't refuse to be treated by their new Muslim overlords - is that how it works, Doctor? And Randy, your ethics are questionable, dude.

215 Babydoc97  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:31:24pm

re: #187 marysaidno

Uh...from the tone of the article, Mary, it would seem we are on the same philosophical side of this argument. However, upon reading the article, you would have noted that the references to the ACGME and the RRC are specific to RESIDENCY training, which occurs AFTER graduation from medical school. Additionally, though it is not obvious to someone unfamiliar with the manner by which doctors are trained for licensing within a particular specialty, the RRC wording regarding the forcing of abortion training onto residents applies to OB/GYN residency programs. Pediatricians, Family Practice, Psychiatrists, Otolaryngologists, Urologists, and all the other "-ologists" that have nothing to do with the medical functioning of the uterus are not being required to learn abortion techniques in residency training. Medical students do not get to perform very many procedures in medical school, despite what you may have seen on "ER", "Grey's Anatomy" or even "House". The medicolegal liability of having medical students do anything much more involved than throwing a couple of sutures, placing an IV or maybe doing a lumbar puncture is too high under the current ambulance-chasing system of laws.

One word of advice - and I really don't mean to sound arrogant or patronizing when I say this - but PLEASE be careful when reading anything on the web involving medical topics. Check with someone whom you trust to translate anything out of "medical-ese" that you find on the web. There is so much misguided garbage out there on the net and in the MSM that it is easy to get confused and to become overly cynical about the practice of medicine. An example of the kind of thing that gets out there would be the frothing reports a few years back about people dying from a severe tissue infection. Though the article was supposed to be about a bacterial infection called Group A beta-haemolytic streptococcus (known by the moniker 'flesh-eating bacteria') the intrepid but uneducated reporter wrote about the "flesh-eating bacteria virus" without the foggiest idea of how obtuse he was being. He probably sold a bunch of papers, but he needlessly alarmed and confused his readers in the process.

216 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:36:42pm
217 Cry of defiance and not of fear  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:38:00pm

re: #199 rawmuse

Take a look at the readers' comments to that TIMES article: when last I checked, ALL 45 respondents were emphatically fed up to the eye teeth with Moslems and all for showing the whole lot the door. THE TIMES has been at the forefront (along with Channel 4 TV) in England of exposing the truth about Islam. No dhimmis there. It's the government who are kowtowing to the Moslems, not the public. I'd say a boiling point is being reached, and the fact that their National Health Service is falling apart, with more taxes on the way to prop it up, along with more aliens (thanks to the Eurabian Union) should tip the scales against the Moslems and their leftist enablers and colluders.

218 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:39:09pm

Next Muslim medical students will refuse to attend any class that has Jooos in it.

219 Wishbone  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:40:32pm

re: #210 NY Nana

Steyn has some valid points there, but his rant completely dismisses any notion that there would be many opposed to those points he speculates upon.

He's got a fire under his arse, I'll give him that, but he comes across as far too hysterical and over-indulgent with melodramatic prose, as opposed to measured introspection, for me to take him seriously.

220 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:42:52pm
221 Daisy  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:46:01pm

re: #214 kmclay

You're point is well taken. Randy seems like a doofus to me. This caught my eye: "I couldn’t reach his primary physician, and the other physician on call was also Muslim."

Sounds like another ethical dilemma (and perhaps more pertinent) has to do with an emergency room in Houston, Texas having only 2 doctors on staff. Houston's a pretty big town, after all. Also, why couldn't he reach the guy's primary care doctor or on call substitute?

222 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:46:34pm

re: #214 kmclay

OT but related:
Get a load of Randy Cohen, aka The Ethicist over at today's NY Slimes Sunday Mag...


A patient came to the E.R. where I work, and a nurse gave him a preliminary evaluation. When the patient saw my name, he refused to be examined by a Muslim doctor. I couldn’t reach his primary physician, and the other physician on call was also Muslim. A physician assistant offered to complete the evaluation, but as the patient was in no immediate danger, I did not allow this. Instead I discharged the patient without a full evaluation. Was I right? — Ali Mohamed Osman, M.D., Houston
You were right not to capitulate to religious bigotry, but you might have handled this a little differently. When the patient refused to be seen by a Muslim doctor, you should have told him that your hospital does not assign doctors based on religion — that would be both unethical and illegal — and then reiterated your willingness to examine him. If he remained obdurate, the decision to refuse treatment would have been his, not yours, a choice he has the right to make even if he does so for mutton-headed reasons.

Although the physician assistant was willing to step in, you did well to forbid it. To allow such an accommodation — Can I show you something in a nice Reform Jew? Perhaps something more Presbyterian? — is to abet religious discrimination.

Still, I am uneasy with your discharging this fellow without a full evaluation.

As you no doubt know, there are legal requirements for examining and releasing an E.R. patient. While he may have been in no danger at that time, he could have laid subsequent problems at your door.

To your credit, you showed admirable restraint by not pushing the patient’s gurney down a flight of steps as a less temperate person (me) might have — raising the question of why an intemperate person with no medical training (me) was working in the E.R.


Okay, so they can refuse to treat certain dhimmi illnesses but dhimmis can't refuse to be treated by their new Muslim overlords - is that how it works, Doctor? And Randy, your ethics are questionable, dude.

Prior to reading this thread, I did not have a good set of questions prepared that I could pose to a doctor of the Muslim cult faith prior to allowing an examination upon myself. Now I do. Thank you all. I hope I never need use them.

223 EIDE_Interface  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:49:18pm

I love how Muslims self-select themselves for extinction. Wonderful!

224 NY Nana  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:49:28pm

re: #219 Wishbone

We will have to agree to disagree. Have you read his website?

225 Cry of defiance and not of fear  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:50:14pm

re: #219 Wishbone

Steyn's assessment of Wales is spot on. His relationship with Islam goes far beyond religious dilletantism: this is a man who may someday be the Sovereign of a kingdom among whom will be numbered a considerable percentage of people sworn by adherence to their cult to either forcibly convert, subjugate in a persecuted status or kill his subjects, and yet he does all in his power to forward the interests of Islam and thereby to assist its imperialistic aspirations.

226 Babydoc97  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 1:55:27pm

re: #200 looking closely

re: #190 Killgore Trout

Not everyone thinks the original Oath of Hippocrates is a relic. We recited it at my medical school as incoming first year students, and again at our graduation. Just because we have far more advanced technology than what Hippocrates had available doesn't make us smarter physicians, just luckier to have all these discoveries and tools to provide better medicine on a much larger scale. When I read the descriptions of disease and treatment recommendations Hippocrates came up with, based solely on his eyes, ears and mental faculties, it makes me wonder how effective a physician I would have been performing under the same constraints, with the same level of basic medical knowledge he had. I would certainly agree with you that the PRINCIPLES in the oath are relevent...to include the admonition against abortion.

It seems D&C certainly could be taught within an OB/GYN clerkship, particularly as it is used status post miscarriage. Forcing students to participate in elective D&C seems well over the line (to me) given the significant ethical issues involved in abortion. Teaching the despicable and utterly medically unnecessary practice of D&X (aka 'partial-birth abortion') designed solely for the convenience of the abortionist, should not be part of medical training. I chose to be a physician to help people be healthier, not to help them rationalize immoral personal choices, or to provide an easier way to dispose of an inconvient life. My choice not to perform abortions does not prevent someone from obtaining one...I became a neonatologist knowing full well I would never ever have to perform an abortion.

227 Wishbone  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:02:24pm

re: #224 NY Nana

Not yet, not enough time in the world to get through them all but I daresay I will sooner or later. It was that particular piece that made me cringe, but I'll reserve judgement until such time as I've read more of him, of course.

re: #225 Cry of defiance and not of fear

Well, that one is a different story. The thing is, we've known Charlie boy was absolutely bonkers for a good, long time now. Ever since it went public that his most endearing conversations were with his plants, in fact. He's a dangerous fool, no doubts there, but we're not going to follow a fool into subjugation or worse just because he has HRH in front of his name.

228 Babydoc97  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:03:18pm

re: #190 Killgore Trout

Hehehe...so when someone doesn't want to bother answering you, it's "I win!" but when you can't be bothered to read someone's answer and question to you, it's "...heal thyself"?

By all means, please be so helpful as to explain how in the world I am demonstrating moral relativism by pointing out the reasoning behind my differentiation between refusing to perform the elective surgical procedure of abortion (an act designed specifically to end a life), versus the unethical behavior of the aforementioned muslim medical students refusing to even learn about basic medical disease processes or basic female physical exam techniques - an act by which their future patients could DIE?

I'm ready for my medicine.....

229 mama winger  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:05:18pm

re: #228 Babydoc97

I admire you, very much. I just wanted to let you know that.

230 Peter Verkooijen  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:06:24pm

As a proud Infidel I would refuse to be treated by a muslim doctor.

231 Barry  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:08:06pm

So how many of you infidels have the courage to let a Muslim Dr. care for you in the hope he cures your ailment and not kill you?

232 mama winger  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:09:15pm

re: #231 Barry

So how many of you infidels have the courage to let a Muslim Dr. care for you in the hope he cures your ailment and not kill you?

My oncologist is a muslim form Pakistan, but has been in this country for about 25 years or so. He has given me extraordinarily good care.

233 ROPMA  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:10:47pm

When I was in medical school the Christian Medical Students decided that they didn't want to learn about human sexuality. The administration said OK. They got the same test as everyone else but probably got lower grades. However not learning about alcohol, STD's, or females is going to be LOT bigger chunk of the curriculum. Probably enough to flunk out.

234 sheik yer'mami  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:11:51pm

The Brits are becoming as insane as their invaders.

If I had a dollar for every Muhammedan who got the clap, AIDS, NSU or syphilis in BKK on their regular sex trips from the Gulf states I would be sitting on a few million dollars.

These bigottet A-soles have to be told in no uncertain terms that they can't pass exams and they can't study if they don't do the full course.

But the Brits seem to all subscribe to some limp dick PC religion nowadays. How can anyone put up with this?

235 zawg  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:12:03pm

To #s 215 Babydoc97 and #187 Marysaidno

Nice midwifery Babydoc providing a very soft landing for 187 when 187's comments (#58) were a very low Apgar score indeed...Marysaidno needs 10 L/O2 per nonrebreathing mask quickly...a very informative post for those quoting medical studies..kudos for examplary gold rule to you

236 Wishbone  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:13:04pm

re: #231 Barry

Depends on whether you believe every Muslim doctor on the planet, without exception, is a religiously driven, homicidal maniac, just itching to find some way to kill an infidel.

237 TalkinKamel  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:16:18pm

Wishbone

Wishbone, if you and other Brits really do oppose this sort of thing, then I think it's high time you started actually organizing some sort of opposition, and stopped blaming the messenger.

238 ROPMA  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:19:48pm

re: #236 Wishbone

re: #231 Barry

Depends on whether you believe every Muslim doctor on the planet, without exception, is a religiously driven, homicidal maniac, just itching to find some way to kill an infidel.

Only a small percentage are like that 10-15%.

239 Wishbone  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:19:57pm

re: #234 sheik yer'mami

These bigottet A-soles have to be told in no uncertain terms that they can't pass exams and they can't study if they don't do the full course.

I believe that was touched upon in the Daily Mail article.

But the Brits seem to all subscribe to some limp dick PC religion nowadays.

You've met all of us have you mate? Or would you have us, by your own logic, subscribe to the thought that all Americans seem to be dysfunctional trailor trash, or that all Aussies seem to be sheep shaggers?

240 Big Steve  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:20:09pm

So who delivers babies? I guess it back to mid-wives for all.

241 TalkinKamel  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:21:46pm

9/11 was just the opening shot. This is an ongoing war. It's being fought in the Middle-East and places like Darfur, Nigeria, Thailand, etc. and it's being fought on the multicultural battleground, with PC, "hate crime" legislation and society being forced more and more to submit to Islam, with stuff like this. Can you imagine a group of Christian medical students announcing they weren't going to treat gays, or veneral disease? They'd be tossed out on their rear ends! But Moslem medical students must be kow-towed to, for some reason.

242 peck  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:22:30pm

Late to the thread sorry if it has already been tossed out there, but maybe veterinary medicine should be a focus. I myself am now very conscious of my doctors' degree sources, name, belief system, nationality, and make of car they drive. If it is a Jeep and the are born in the ME, I'm finding someone else.
Thank goodness we here in the USA still have something other than nationalized medicine, where we can make a choice. Get HillCare in and we all may just have to go where we are told, regardless of the bomb-laden cars they drive into hospitals.
Where is Thomas Paine when you need 'em?

243 peck  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:23:16pm

re: #238 ROPMA

You go first.

244 Wishbone  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:27:05pm

re: #237 TalkinKamel

Who said anything about blaming anybody? If someone has a message for me mate, they'd better damn well be qualified to give it. Otherwise, I'm just going to assume the messenger made it up as they went along.

It's an easy assumption to make these days, I assure you.

245 mama winger  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:28:50pm

re: #242 peck

but maybe veterinary medicine should be a focus

.

Can you explain ?

246 nonic  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:29:27pm

From the article............

Dr Abdul Majid Katne of the Islamic Medical Association said he did not support students who wanted to opt out of certain aspects of their courses.

'To learn about alcohol, to learn about sexually-transmitted disease, to learn about abortion, it gives us more evdience to campaign against it,' he said. 'There is a difference between learning and practising.

'It is obligatory for Muslim doctors and students to learn about everything. The Prophet said: "Learn about witchcraft, but don't practise it".'

Sainsbury's and Boots allow their pharmacists to refuse to sell the morning after pill to customers if they have 'ethical' conerns.

So we can expect that they will "learn" in order to obtain their licenses -- but then will refuse to "practice," or to actually treat patients that they disapprove of.

247 sheik yer'mami  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:30:38pm

re: #239 Wishbone

Whats youre point? You irritated as a Brit or as enraged as only a Muhammedan can be?

248 cry of defiance and not of fear  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:35:17pm

re: #227 Wishbone

You won't be disappointed, Wishbone, when you eventually get around to Mark Steyn's site: first-class and prescient which is why he was ditched by nervous English periodicals like the Speccie and the Telly but he's listened to in the highest places internationally.

Good choice of words: Charles IS 'dangerous' and I've heard others who think similarly. Did you know he's planning on building a mosque in his idealised village in Cornwall? As Duke of Cornwall he seems to have forgotten that the Cornish regard even Englismen as foreigners ('emmets' to you)!

249 peck  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:35:48pm

re: #245 mama winger

Sure. Goats, sheep, etc. All of those riding in the passenger seats of vehicles in the ME.
I remember a scene from the movie 'K9'. The ER staff had no clue how to treat a dog for a gun shot wound. Apparently the disciplines are not necessarily compatible. But, I am no doctor, don't play one on tv and, didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn last night.
Could be wrong here. Apologize in advance.

250 Babydoc97  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:37:20pm

re: #229 mama winger

Mama, I most humbly and sincerely accept your kind words as the second highest compliment I have ever received....beaten out only by the compliment from my own mother....:)

At the risk of sounding like a mutual admiration society, I have always enjoyed reading your posts....admittedly because I agree with you....but also because you are so well written.

Have a great day!

251 mama winger  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:40:11pm

re: #249 peck

Oh, I see :) I was just wondering because I work in veterinary medicine. And yes, the two are not exactly the same. Primarily because our patients cannot tell us where it hurts - we have to figure it out all by ourselves - LOL

252 mama winger  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:40:38pm

re: #250 Babydoc97

You are most sincerely welcome. :)

253 peck  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:44:55pm

re: #251 mama winger

Glad I didn't offend. I worry about the STDs passed to the poor, defenseless animals from the human (sub-human?) population.
No sarc intended. Read the 'Painted Bird', have never recovered. That book almost destroyed my faith in humanity.

254 mama winger  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:46:30pm

re: #253 peck

That book almost destroyed my faith in humanity.

My faith in humanity tends to be a bit wobbly at times as well. It's one reason I work with dogs instead. :)

255 Babydoc97  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:47:46pm

re: #249 peck

DVM =Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
DO = Doctor of Osteopathy
MD = Doctor of Medicine

Human medical doctors don't learn how to treat animals, and I have been told by physician colleagues of mine (who had previously graduated from veterinary medical school) that getting into Vet school was harder and more demanding than getting into human medical schools. As these folks were both much smarter than I was (and they got better grades in med school than I did) I will take them at their word.

256 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:50:14pm
257 peck  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:50:27pm

re: #254 mama winger

I think you must be a rock. You must see the truly dark side. I wanted to go into medicine but never thought I could get by the awfulness of what humans could do to one another, especially the defenseless. And, I was really bad in math.

258 mama winger  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:52:29pm

re: #257 peck

I'm really bad in math too. That's why I am an assistant and not a vet. :0


Yes, we do see some bad things. But the joy of life in these creatures more than compensates.

259 peck  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:54:12pm

re: #256 buzzsawmonkey

Maybe so, but, it doesn't take much in the news today to see that the actions weren't far off the mark. Even animals do not bury their own alive, or commit torture for entertainment. At least theirs is the rationale world of the food chain and survival.

260 peck  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 2:56:51pm

re: #256 buzzsawmonkey

Was he a liberal? Were his lips moving? It was all a lie?
In all honesty, that book still bothers me. I hate to think about it, but it creeps up on me at odd times. Damn him.

261 Wishbone  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 3:07:48pm

re: #247 sheik yer'mami

I think my point was quite clear fella. You may wish to ponder upon the vagueness of your second question though.

re: #248 cry of defiance and not of fear

Yes, I had heard that about Charles wanting to build that mosque in Cornwall. I did think at the time that he may be pushing his luck trying that on in what we jokingly refer to up north as 'Wicker Man' country.

Good mead and cider in that corner of Blighty.

262 BillLangston  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 3:15:48pm

re: #20 Caliredst8r

Most excellent point sir, most excellent! I would love to see that question put before, say, CAIR.

SF
Bill

263 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 3:21:09pm
264 BillLangston  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 3:28:57pm

re: #58 marysaidno

One problem I see here is that there are religious Christians who object to being required to do abortions in their training. If they are allowed to opt out, will it not be difficult to say the Muslims cannot do the same for the same reasons? I know there is a difference between believing the procedure is murder and believing that alcoholism or venereal diseases are punishments for sin, but I do not think the ACLU (for example) would see the difference.

Then they (ACLU) should have it explained to them real slowly so they get it. There actually *is* a difference!

SF
Bill

265 InternationalObserver  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 3:31:35pm

How do religious Jews and Hindu approach the need, in medical training, to dissect foetal pigs, perform simulated surgery on dogs, etc.?

266 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 3:33:16pm
267 threeCents  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 3:37:58pm

I suppose that would all the better for the doctors who do treat those "infidel" diseases provided that the British actually had a free market for the medical industry. Now they have to secretly find a doctor that is infidel-certified.

268 BillLangston  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 3:44:18pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

Mr. Trout, could it be because there was no actual 'speech' involved in the exhibit? Now if it was nude table dancing then that would be okay! (G)

SF
Bill

269 InternationalObserver  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 3:49:49pm

re: #266 buzzsawmonkey

There is no prohibition in Judaism against handling dead pigs or dogs.

Whew, that's a relief; it means Jewish doctors won't object to doing autopsies on Muslims.

Seriously, here's the reason I asked: Jews and Hindu seem far less insistent upon forcing their religious habits upon others. In other words, they are far more willing to subordinate their religious law to the secular law. (I believe the Jews even have a religious principle stating that the secular/national law supercedes their own religious law in the event of conflict between the two.)

The Muslim habit of insisting their own religious law dominant, is the precise reason why the west should be wary even of ostensibly "progressive" Muslims.

270 Straitcircle  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 3:51:28pm

These Muslim “medical students" are too funny. When will the day come when Muslim medics will not treat westerners who were injured in Islamic militant jihad campaigns?

271 So?  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 4:13:30pm

Muslim med student poured 6 drops of shit into my eye...took 6 weeks to recover...directions on web saud 1 DROP MAX,.....it froze my retina nd my pupil was so dilated I couldn'rt see the color of my eye///// so fuck them...he did it on purpose cause he sa w a Jewuish name

272 So?  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 4:14:32pm

re: #271 So?

Muslim med student poured 6 drops of shit into my eye...took 6 weeks to recover...directions on web saud 1 DROP MAX,.....it froze my retina nd my pupil was so dilated I couldn'rt see the color of my eye///// so fuck them...he did it on purpose cause he sa w a Jewuish name

sorry for the typos, gotta eat now

273 So?  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 4:15:26pm

re: #270 Straitcircle

These Muslim “medical students" are too funny. When will the day come when Muslim medics will not treat westerners who were injured in Islamic militant jihad campaigns?

Screw Muslim deics---I've had 2 serious experiences...NEVER AGAIN

274 So?  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 4:16:12pm

never again will I let a muslim doctor touch me...I'd rather die!

and I'm not kidding

275 kimberly  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 4:25:46pm

Wonder if we'll see that sort of thinking here in the US any time soon? My guess is med students won't get far with it. Regardless of what the med schools do if any student decides they won't learn about certain diseases or deal with patients of the opposite sex, physicians wishing to gain a license to practice medicine in the US must pass a four-step series of exams. One of the exams is a standardized patient exam in which the physician must interact with standardized patients of both genders and all ethnicities and ages. A physician who refuses to deal with the opposite sex or who refuses to learn about certain diseases will certainly be at a disadvantage on the exams.

Could a given state decide to license a physician who fails or does not take these exams? I suppose they could, and that would be interesting in and of itself.

276 arf  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 4:29:04pm

The 99% of Muslims who hold such views are going to give the 1% of reasonable, thoughtful, intelligent Muslims a bad name.

277 wanumba  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 4:32:43pm

re: #181 stevieray
That's indeed the big clash isn't it?
Just to discuss a bit more ...Which Islam is Islam? It's not just Islam against the infidenls, it's Islam against Islam. If Islamofascists demand that it's their way or the highway, and others refuse, that's a fight. In some places, the hand choppers take over, only because of brute force, in others they get kicked out. It depends on how strong the "home team" is so to speak. The version of Islam as spread by Wahhabists should be considered a blight on humanity and eliminated. It is an ideology of pure hate of the human race. They'll trample everyone else into the dirt, then begin eating themselves. They do not want Muslims who abhor the savage excesses of Wahhabism to throw their lots in with the civilizations of the West. That is the way of defeat of the totalitarian Islamofascist movement.

278 BillLangston  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 4:37:25pm

re: #236 Wishbone

Roger that Mr. Wishbone; or if he is even a Muslim!

SF
Bill

279 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 4:50:43pm
280 So?  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 5:00:40pm

re: #263 buzzsawmonkey

re: #260 peck

Some years before Jerzy Kosinski committed suicide it was revealed that he had made up "The Painted Bird," which you will recall was marketed as his recollections of his experiences as a child DP during the war; that he, like George Soros, had been placed fairly safely with a gentile family; and there was some talk of some connection he had with the CIA.

I don't remember all the details.

He was a great author, whether he made it up or not. I'm sorry he died when and how he did. I loved all his work.

281 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 5:07:19pm
282 peck  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 5:11:09pm

re: #280 So?

Well, when I read that book, it was required reading in high school. It was promoted as a real story. Something along the lines of Anne Frank. At the time, and as I recall, the author was purported to be telling a tale of his experiences.
At least when I saw 'Old Yeller' and cried my eyes out for years my parents could tell me in all honesty that it was a fiction.
I hate being sold a bill of goods. When I cry, I want to be sure I know whether it is for real or for fiction.
Shame on Jerzi.

283 wanumba  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 5:12:22pm

re: #58 marysaidno

One problem I see here is that there are religious Christians who object to being required to do abortions in their training. If they are allowed to opt out, will it not be difficult to say the Muslims cannot do the same for the same reasons?


The problem runs up against the Oath which is summed up; to do no harm to a human being. A Muslim could argue the same for the life of the baby and there would be no true medical conflict. Refusing treatment for disease is something else. Someone IS being harmed by withholding of treatment for illness or injury, so that's a violation of the Oath.

I know there is a difference between believing the procedure is murder and believing that alcoholism or venereal diseases are punishments for sin,


There's a point to clarify there, just because one thinks alcoholism and veneral diseases are punishments for sin doesn't mean at all that a Christian doctor would refuse treatment, no more than anyone who had told someone else repeatedly to not play in the street so as not to be hit by a car. Everyone KNOWS it was likely there would be a problem, but no one withholds treatment. It's just sad it had to happen, when it didn't have to. Never heard of a Christian doctor refusing treatment because of that scenario. Christian doctors sit in regular hospitals, going about their business in very mundane ways AND in the weirdest and remotest locations treating sinners every day, including spirit worshippers, witchcraft practitioners, you name it. EVERYONE is a sinner, if Christian doctors refused to treat sinners, they'd have no clients. In fact, for a TRUE Christian doctor, it's nonsensical to hold up one category of sinner over another. All sin is equally damning. The exhortation is very clear in the Book of James : Help first with the infirmities, then after that, one can talk about God's love.
Do not see any similar exhortation out of the Koran - believers are allotted a different standard than non-believers which causes terrible injustice.

but I do not think the ACLU (for example) would see the difference

.
Think you are calling it correctly on the ol' ACLU.

284 peck  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 5:32:18pm

re: #281 buzzsawmonkey

Thank you. You said it much better than I could.

285 TalkinKamel  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 5:56:13pm

#244 Wishbone

You're starting to hyperventilate, mate; you really ought to read Steyn, instead of getting mad at him.

"Blighty"? I think you're starting to overdue the British lingo a bit, mate. Have some good beer and/or mead, and calm down.

#263 buzzsawmonkey

Fiction is fiction and fact is fact, and I do wish the current literati would get the difference through their heads as to which is which.

I'm glad the Koszynski book got debunked; it haunts one, yes, but in a horrible way, and I honestly thought it was overkill; you know, everything awful happens so very awfully, but it in this stark, icky-yet-artistic way. It's almost too good (or bad.) Compare it with a real survivor's memoirs, such as those of Elie Wiesel, or, "When Broken Glass Floats", and I think you'll see what I mean.

And the world can be an awful place, but it can also be a wonderful one; don't let a mere book alter your outlook on life. (Look, I write myself, and I'm telling you----it's all made up, especially a lot of the stuff that purports to be "real". And the modern stuff, that wants you to hate life, and mankind, is simply wretched.)

286 aussiemagpie  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 6:24:10pm

G'day from Down Under

I must say I'm horrified by some of the comments here

I've been a nurse for many years, and I've had the pleasure of working with thousands of people ( doctors, nurses, and every other type of occupation found in a hospital) - from many different backgrounds

The inflammatory remarks made by Wahabists are intended to provoke a reaction - and some of you have reacted in the way these fundamentalists want you to react, and yes they are pushing for the caliphate and openly too but talking about all Muslims as if all of them were vermin and need exterminating hardly helps

Hey they'll cry - its Islamophobia! We're being discriminated against etc etc etc

Before you call me a dhimmi, I share the fears about the Islamic influence in our Western world and the ineptitude of our PC masters in facing up to the threat, but let me tell you that many muslims I have met and worked with and some I work with now are quite ordinary people - like you and me - the Muslim doctors I work with, and one is truly an apostate with the best red wine collection I've seen, do treat patients well and do treat all patients as do all the other doctors who are not Muslim - doesn't matter if they're women, heavy drinkers, Christian - as a practice nurse in the surgery for four years, I'd expect a few patients at least to trust me enough to let me know about not wanting to see a Muslim doctor

You might say these all these doctors are just waiting for the call to jihad, - are you sure? ALL of them?

And if they are all "Trojan Horses"what are we supposed to do now - kill them all?

Can you see how irrational that viewpoint is?

287 rorschach  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 6:41:08pm

Send.them.home...

Behold, the new "Mohammedan Oath'...forget Hippocrates...or, how to insist that the human spirit take a back seat to your fascist "religion".

288 TalkinKamel  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 7:13:27pm

#286 aussiemagpie

The fact that you, personally, know many good, comitted Moslem doctors and nurses doesn't change the fact that it would be extremely bad for the British medical profession to allow Islamic med students to get away without studying sexually transmitted diseases, alcoholism, etc. If these students are allowed to get away with this, the profession itself will suffer, standards will go down, diseases will go untreated and people won't trust Islamic doctors at all, despite the fact that there still might be some good ones out there. I would think you as a nurse would be very concerned about this.

Stuff like this can't be ignored. Nor can the fact that a rather horrifying number of Islamic doctors seem to be involved with Jihad, both in the Middle-East, and, increasingly, in the West (as witness the physicians who attacked the British airport recently.) No, I don't think all of them are waiting for the call to jihad. I fear some of them are, and that others, like the med students described in the article at the beginning of this thread, are starting to lapse into into the unpleasant Islamic superiority mindset. As I said in my earlier post, I believe this is a war. 9/11 was only the opening shot, so to speak. And it's a war being fought on more than one battlefront, and one of those fronts is the on-going privileging of Islam, from med students to taxi drivers refusing to take guide dogs and anybody carrying alcohol to cashiers being excused from ringing up pork products. I am not saying your co-workers aren't nice people. But, the fact that they are, and the fact that we realize not all Moslem doctors are jihadists shouldn't prevent us from talking about problems like this. Yes, the Wahabists are out there, and they have been propagandizing diligently; we'd be fools to think this hasn't been having some effect on Moslems. (And, no, this doesn't mean killing them or harming them in any way----where do you get that? It means watching our for things that don't seem right. And, in Britain, it ought to mean that these Islamic students do not get a degree, if they aren't going to study what doctors need to know. Simple as that.)

I don't know how the fundamentalists want us to react----and, to be honest, I don't care. They hate us, and will accuse of anything in order to further their war against us. Ignoring them, appeasing them or trying to make nice with them doesn't seem to work. Trust me, we in the America have tried all three strategies over the past few decades. They didn't work. It's long past the point where we should pay attention to, or care, about anything they say about us.

289 TalkinKamel  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 7:15:25pm

Seriously, aussiemagpie, they cry "Help! Islamophobia!" over a few silly cartoons, for G-d's sake! We really can't keep these people happy by keeping our mouths shut, and letting them get away with any idiot program they want to push on us!

290 AirForceWife  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 7:17:04pm

#42 looking closely 10/07/07 11:09:15 am reply quote report 3

Asshats.

Nobody enjoys dealing with hardcore drug addicts and/or prostitutes, but that's part of the job.

Yep, nothing like having to strip down a homeless person covered in feces and going through DT's in the ER to be stuck with a needle in their clothing. Happened to me and I was double gloved. I was still in nursing school and seriously considered changing my major. I once saw a guy going through DT's break one of his legs out of a restraint and kick a pregnant nurse hard in the abdomen who had tried for years and years to become pregnant (Thank God she did not lose the baby). There are some truly wretched people out there and as always, good people suffer for it. I never once refused to treat someone though, I just contemplated quitting and working in a flower shop or something especially since my pay wasn't much higher.

291 AirForceWife  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 7:21:02pm

#286 aussiemagpie 10/07/07 6:24:10 pm reply quote report

Before you call me a dhimmi, I share the fears about the Islamic influence in our Western world and the ineptitude of our PC masters in facing up to the threat, but let me tell you that many muslims I have met and worked with and some I work with now are quite ordinary people - like you and me - the Muslim doctors I work with, and one is truly an apostate with the best red wine collection I've seen, do treat patients well and do treat all patients as do all the other doctors who are not Muslim - doesn't matter if they're women, heavy drinkers, Christian - as a practice nurse in the surgery for four years, I'd expect a few patients at least to trust me enough to let me know about not wanting to see a Muslim doctor

I won't. I worked with a Doctor from Eygypt who was Muslim and I never once saw him discriminate. He was an awesome OB doc that was in high demand. I have no idea what his politics were, even after 9/11 it did not come up at work. All I know is that he was a great doctor.

292 aussiemagpie  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 8:54:54pm

re: #288 TalkinKamel

I agree with you, that's why I read LGF and other like minded blogs as the MSM certainly does not inform me

293 aussiemagpie  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 9:08:35pm

re: #289 TalkinKamel

Seriously, aussiemagpie, they cry "Help! Islamophobia!" over a few silly cartoons, for G-d's sake! We really can't keep these people happy by keeping our mouths shut, and letting them get away with any idiot program they want to push on us!


I agree with you again, and many years ago before the advent of PC and separatist mulitcultural policies, this behaviour would have been unheard of

294 aussiemagpie  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 9:18:59pm

re: #291 AirForceWife

Thanks for your reply, and I see you're a nurse also

In my workplace we have thre Muslim docotrs ( I work in a very busy General Practice - 3 surgeries, 15 doctors)

Not once has relgion ever come into it, except when I told one doc I would be working with him on a Saturday afew weeks ago, he groaned and said "Oh no, you'll be cooking those toasted cheese sandwiches again for lunch and I'll be starving - you'll be torturing me!"

However all this does not make me blind to see what is happening - and that's why I turn to LGF and other blogs to keep me informed - and of course meet up with posters from all around the world!

295 siiras  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 9:52:19pm

Taxpayers subsidize doctors' training which costs much more than their tuition fees cover. They cannot be shortchanged by someone who has no intention of treating half of them (the women) or a sub-group (those with illnesses that offend Muslims).

The time to establish this is BEFORE the investment is made. There are long lists of applicants for medical school. Muslim candidates must be asked whether they will be willing to learn all parts of the curriculum and treat every kind of patient.

The first rule of medicine is noli nocere(above all, do no harm). Abortion is the only medical procedure where intentional physical harm is being done (to the fetus) for no reason than the mother's preference in the vast majority of cases. It is rare indeed that a woman's life is saved by abortion and there is accumulating evidence that there are post-abortion problems that are at least as risky as carrying a pregnancy to full-term

Therefore, the physician refusing to do an abortion is almost never endangering life and in fact is conserving a life, however temporarily. The Muslim doctors' discrimination on Islamic grounds endangers patients' lives.

296 Yitzchak  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 9:59:23pm

That explains why Abu Amar's medical team did such a bad job of keeping him alive.

297 internationalobserver  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:04:48pm

Aussie, TalkinKamel, AirForceWife:

Let me make two points about the danger of Islam:

1. Lack of internal restraint

Islam shows certain religious or cultural tenets (the fatal combination of machistic nationalist or cultural pride with religious triumphalism) which mandate an aggressive weltanschuung, without the self-limiting restraints of, say, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hindutva, ....

For example, Christianity has always had the seeds of self-restraint, as shown by the "turn the other cheek" concept. Further, it has had the seed of religious subordination to secular law in the concept, "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." Finally, in the late 20th c. Christianity came to understand its obligation to respect (and NOT intimidate or dominate) other religions - an idea approved even by the RC church in "Nostre Aetate".

Judaism also has the ideas of self-restraint in its forbidding of proselytisation and its philosophies of "fixing the world" and "secular law supercedes religious".

But Islam does not seem to contain any such restraints.

2. Implicit domination

As it exists, in every country - even those with highly tolerant forms of Christianity (for example) and Hindutva - any religious minority will be implicitly dominated.

Islam alone need not reach majority status to so intimidate and dominate, severely; over a given threshold (far less than majority), Islam will brutally intimidate and dominate.

For example, let us assume Islam in a given country reaches a threshold - say, 5% of population. Let us further assume every one of those 5% are the kind, gentle, nice, discreet, tolerant, progressive Muslims Aussie describes. One can still nevertheless guarantee that under those circumstances the non-Muslims will experience extremely strong pressure if not outright intimidation (and actual or implied violence) to conform to Islam - and not even necessarily to the most benign form thereof. For example, in some areas of Western countries (and of India and Thailand), I would NOT eat those cheese sandwiches in public during Ramadan if I value my well-being.

_____

I'm sorry to say that Islam seems to be as noxious a philosophy as, say, socialism or communism - tolerable in small, well-controlled doses (as Western European or Israeli-kibbutz-style), but absolutely inimical to human freedom and civilisation in any quantity above minimal regardless of how progressive the individual Muslims might be.

One reason Aussie or the rest of us may find the Muslims we know so innocuous and tolerant, is that the quantity in some Western countries remains under that critical threshold.

298 Alberta Oil Peon  Sun, Oct 7, 2007 10:51:01pm

re: #286 aussiemagpie


Excellent post, aussiemagpie.

I'm amazed at the lack of reading comprehension seemingly displayed by some of the posters tonight. What part of "But he said trainees who refused to carry out these parts of their courses would not be allowed to graduate because ‘prejudicing treatment on the grounds of patients’ gender or their responsibility for their condition would run counter to the most basic principles of ethical medical practice.’" do they not understand?

I realize some of the comments may have been posted before the update, but by no means all of them. Seems like all too many of the commentors here seem to think that the Muslim students are getting away with this behavior, when it appears that, at least for now, that they are not.

We have to remain vigilant that bad apples like the above-described students do not get into the medical (or other) profession, but we also have to remember that not all people who identify as Muslims are necessarily raving jihadists. Here in the West, we probably get more than our share of the rational, decent Muslims, people who found the orthodoxy of their native land stifling. Some of them may be Muslims in name only, choosing not to become apostates out of sentimental attachment to such things as their families. Or their heads. Muslims of this nature are just as threatened by the Wahhabis and other jihadists as we are.

299 BabbaZee  Mon, Oct 8, 2007 5:17:13am
Muslims of this nature are just as threatened by the Wahhabis and other jihadists as we are.

Then the ones living in the west, especially in America need to openly self identify as apostates and not as Muslims so we can tell the difference.

In Muslim counties I totally understand the need to say nothing and pretend.

In the west, their silence implies consent IMO. Which means they are not "moderates" or "apostates" but taqiyyalopes when they say nothing, do nothing, and continue to call themselves Muslim.

300 cimom  Mon, Oct 8, 2007 6:39:13am

Muslim doctors won't treat sexually related diseases? I guess that's why Arafat had to go to Fwance for his AIDS.

301 TalkinKamel  Mon, Oct 8, 2007 6:55:37am

And, of course, you have to remember that Moslems living in America are self-selected; that is, they chose to come here, and, probably many of them chose it because it is the sort of place where they can be non-practising Moslems, without having somebody breathing down their necks.

However, the large amount of Saudi funded, Wahabist mosques in the US does worry me. And, while I'm glad the Brits aren't going to certify these med students yet, I'm not feeling particularly sanguine about them, at this point; we've seen how Islamic Minnesota taxi drivers have stuck to their guns about passengers with alcohol, dogs, etc., despite all threats to sanction, or fire them. I suspect the next tactic these British students are going to try is playing the old "racism" card. We've so, when a particular group keeps the pressure up, the powers that be usually fold, and start caving into them. No, they're not going to certify these students as doctors now, if they don't study what they should, but five, ten years or so down the line, I'm afraid that may change, especially if the civil rights groups get involved.

302 Londonpride  Mon, Oct 8, 2007 7:04:11am

re: #298 Alberta Oil Peon


Agree with all you said.

Would also add that a professor over here in the UK has put pen to paper in a different paper saying he will ENSURE any one who thinks like that WILL fail and he said he has written to all his contacts to ensure they do.

No one is arguing with him either.

303 Trumpeter  Mon, Oct 8, 2007 7:07:05am

[Link: myflandersfields.blogspot.com...]
[Link: www.thesun.co.uk...]
[Link: islamineurope.blogspot.com...]

She told Pulse magazine, "I have had Muslim women give me chapter and verse on very distressing breaches of confidentiality by Muslim GPs. Some women patients feel they cannot trust their own GP, who knows the patient's extended families."


[Link: abc.net.au...]

Al Qaeda's chilling warning: 'Those who cure you will kill you'

Do you trust muslim doctors? I suggest not trusting muslim anyting.

304 Ezekiel2517  Mon, Oct 8, 2007 9:22:16am

It has nothing to do with being muslim. Expel them for racism and sexism. That should be a no brainer in this political climate. We can't have racist doctors, now can we?

305 Ezekiel2517  Mon, Oct 8, 2007 9:25:21am

At least these complainers are the honest ones. The true jihadis would probably do anything necessary in order to graduate with a medical degree. Then just wait until they have someone's jooooish daughter under the knife!

306 kirche  Mon, Oct 8, 2007 10:17:25am

should good muslims even be studying western medicine at all?

stick to the homeopathic desert medicine of honey and cumin seeds... or risk angering the moon god.

307 kirche  Mon, Oct 8, 2007 10:20:55am

#304 zeke

"We can't have racist doctors, now can we?"

apparently you didn't get the memo that designated victims' groups are exempt from such classifications as racism.

there's also a new cover letter for the TPC reports...

308 American Soldier  Mon, Oct 8, 2007 10:58:36am
But he said trainees who refused to carry out these parts of their courses would not be allowed to graduate because ‘prejudicing treatment on the grounds of patients’ gender or their responsibility for their condition would run counter to the most basic principles of ethical medical practice.’


In other news, University of Somalia at Mogadishu announced that muslim students refused a British medical degree for

refusing to attend lectures or answer exam questions on alcohol-related or sexually transmitted diseases because they claim it offends their religious beliefs

would immediately be granted a U of S degree and allowed to intern at the Student Health Service.

309 Ezekiel2517  Mon, Oct 8, 2007 1:04:01pm

re: #307 kirche

apparently you didn't get the memo that designated victims' groups are exempt from such classifications as racism.

No exemptions if they're caught redhanded and it's documented. They are convicting themselves of racism and sexism with their own voluntary statements.

310 B_Dix  Mon, Oct 8, 2007 5:26:02pm

"A number of pictures by American photographer Andres Serrano were vandalized on Friday afternoon at an art gallery..."
--- --- --- ---

This is they same guy who put a crucifix in a jar of urine and titled it "Piss Christ". It's entirely possible the guys who damaged his "art installation" were genuine art-lovers expressing their opinion of his oeuvre .

311 B_Dix  Mon, Oct 8, 2007 5:32:13pm

Oops - sorry about Andres Serrano post. Wrong thread. Can't keep my open windows straight...


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