OT Little Green Elves

OT - US prevents launch of satellite to spy on Iran

Good Morning Charles!

Is there faith in America?

I thought it turned out pretty well, and seemed to resonate nicely with the audience.

It will reassure people who don't deserve to be reassured.

Not an earth shattering speach, just a solid common sense and historical look at the role of faith in the national life of the United States. Something that seems to be becoming rare.

Felt fake to me.

You would think that JFK ended the line of questioning about religion more than 40 years ago. Guess not. Some folks are still stuck on religion.

I'm more concerned about their positions on terrorism, national security (including Iraq, Afghanistan and other related ops), border control, illegal aliens, and taxes (pretty much in that order).

Here's the speech transcript

Good Morning Everyone!

It was a fine speech, not earth-shattering, I agree...but fine. He needed to make it.

Still, I'll be voting for Rudy in the California primary.

If , in the end, Mitt becomes the Republican candidate, I'll vote for him in November.

re: #4 chinesearithmetic

It will reassure people who don't deserve to be reassured.

What people are you referring to?

Lawhawk, I know where you're coming from but right now the Republican Party is still tainted with those who uses the religion test as part of their belief on how they vote for a nominee. In this case, Huckabee who I extremely despise, has popularity with the evangelicals. These people have totally corrupted the way the Republican Party should be today and I don't appreciate it. Romney has struck me as a man who will be a great Executive and has the knowledge to do so, mormon or not.

Why, in 2007, should anyone have to make such a speech?

VW

I don't care about religion. I do care if that religion favors the eventual overthrow of the U.S. Islam comes to mind.

Grilling the man on his personal religious beliefs strikes me as decidedly un-American. I thought JFK put these issues to bed decades ago. But what I'd like to know is just who is making this necessary? Is it the born-agains and other "intolerant Christians" on the right (as we've been told), or is it really the leftist MSM trying to piss in our pot?

OT - Muslim woman sues San Bernardino County
The suit alleges sheriff's deputies violated her rights by forcing her to remove her head covering when she was booked in 2005.

re: #8 gman

Here's the speech transcript

Good Morning Everyone!

thanks!
-reading-
ugh..somehow the speech doesn't not instill the Mitt faith in me :-/

Since I know what he believes (or says he believes), he didn't make a believer outa me. Just another 'prophet-based' religion.

Video won't play for me.

I don't think the problem is the particular set of superstitions he subscribes to. The problem with Romney is that he's an entirely run-of-the-mill politician. All he's got going for him is the "but he has nice hair" vote, and he's neck and neck with Edwards on that.

-jcr

re: #17 Cap'n DOC

Just another 'prophet-based' religion.

Versus a "profit-Based" one?

Tomorrow, Mrs. Clinton will give a speech detailing her faith.

Saturday, she'll give another detailing her new faith.

Did the first two posts in this thread really need to be OT? Isn't that best saved for an open thread, or deep in the thread? Methinks there are some people who wait for a new thread to be opened just so they can make their own wannabe front-page blog posts.

I just can't help but be skeptical about any "conservative" politicians coming out of the northeast.

Not impressed. He is correct that there should not be a "faith test" to become President, I just didn't feel inspired or anything. I'm sure if it was RON PAUL(pbuh) I would have been quivering in feverish glee (not!) but at this point all I can say is that NONE of the candidates really enthrall me. Can we draft Ronald Reagan on an 8-yr loan from heaven?

re: #21 JammieWearingFool

Tomorrow, Mrs. Clinton will give a speech detailing her faith.

Saturday, she'll give another detailing her new faith.

The religion of the finger in the wind?

Eh, well, religion in America is sadly dwindling...

However, Mitt has to make a speech on this but this story caught my eye from yesterday from a now-fired Hillary staffer...
The outlandish e-mail claims, "The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States, one of their own!"

"Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim," goes the anonymous screed.

"THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED, 'ONE NATION UNDER GOD.' ALMIGHTY GOD, NOT THE GOD OF THE KORAN."

re: #2 Carl in Jerusalem
yes

re: #25 lawhawk

re: #21 JammieWearingFool

Tomorrow, Mrs. Clinton will give a speech detailing her faith.

Saturday, she'll give another detailing her new faith.

The religion of the finger in the wind?

Bingo!

re: #14 Lizard by the Bay

Grilling the man on his personal religious beliefs strikes me as decidedly un-American. I thought JFK put these issues to bed decades ago. But what I'd like to know is just who is making this necessary? Is it the born-agains and other "intolerant Christians" on the right (as we've been told), or is it really the leftist MSM trying to piss in our pot?

We do the same with Keith Ellison.

Don't forget about the religious left.

Not all leftwingers in the US are as frankly religious as Hillary Clinton, and many don't even realise that the ideas that they champion have deep religious roots. But even for these people, being leftwing has itself become a sort of religion, with those who disagree viewed as sinister, almost demonic forces, rather than simply as individuals holding different views.

If the mormoms believed in teh violent overthrow of the consitution i would question that. islam is the joining of religion and politics.

Lawhawk, I agree with you on the important issues, but I feel that border control is intimately tied into counterterrorism and homeland security. I also would sleep better at night if I could take it for granted that the next President will name someone competent to run DHS. Not another Chertoff. But figure the odds of that.

"I believe that every faith I have encountered draws its adherents closer to God. And in every faith I have come to know, there are features I wish were in my own: I love the profound ceremony of the Catholic Mass, the approachability of God in the prayers of the Evangelicals, the tenderness of spirit among the Pentecostals, the confident independence of the Lutherans, the ancient traditions of the Jews, unchanged through the ages, and the commitment to frequent prayer of the Muslims. As I travel across the country and see our towns and cities, I am always moved by the many houses of worship with their steeples, all pointing to heaven, reminding us of the source of life's blessings.

Mitt likes "the commitment to frequent prayer of the Muslims."

OT:
The enemy within: Two Arab Israelis arrested on terror-charges.

re: #29 marwan's daughter

We do the same with Keith Ellison.

I don't agree. It is not Ellison's personal faith that is the problem. It's the unsavory characters (who all happen to be members of that same faith) that he is funded by, surrounds himself with, and gives his true allegiance to that is the real problem. Islam would be a much nicer faith if it weren't for all the damned Muslims. :-)

Don't need to watch te video.

/since this whole thing started, we've discussed things and for whatever reason, on LGF, Mitt Romney has never been a subject of conversation

re: #25 lawhawk

re: #21 JammieWearingFool

Tomorrow, Mrs. Clinton will give a speech detailing her faith.

Saturday, she'll give another detailing her new faith.

The religion of the finger in the wind?

The religion of the pull my finger in the wind?

Much better.

re: #14 Lizard by the Bay

It's both, I think. The MSM is playing it up, but there is no question in my mind, having read enough comments here by the more socially conservative lizards, that faith and its expression are enormously important to a section of the Republican party.

I posted this in the dead thread, but it is relevant here:

#660 Honorary Yooper 12/06/07 8:16:30 am reply quote report 0

I have a really stupid sounding question (at least stupid for those in our media):

Why does Mitt Romney's religion matter? (Latter Day Saints)

How about Barak Hussein Obama's religion and his father's religion? (United Church of Christ / Islam)
How about Mike Huckabee's religion? (Southern Baptist)
Or, for that matter, Hillary Clinton's religion? (United Methodist)
What about John Edwards's religion? (United Methodist)
Or, Bill Richardson's religion? (Roman Catholic)
Or, Rudy Guiliani's religion? (Roman Catholic)
Dare I ask about Fred!'s religion? (Church of Christ)
Or, for the coup de gras, Ron Paul's religion? (Baptist)
(Gotta include Ron Paul in here or the Paulians will scream.)

Why does Romney get scrutiny when the others do not?
Do I sense bias in the MSM?

What's Ron Paul's religion?

Anyone know?

re: #23 NYexpat

I just can't help but be skeptical about any "conservative" politicians coming out of the northeast.

The key word aught to be "statewide". I just can't help but to be skeptical about any " conservative" politicians coming out of the northeast in a STATEWIDE election. There are many fine conservative congressman but all to often in the northeast to be elected statewide they often compromise or invent their principals.

re: #15 Ringo the Gringo

OT - Muslim woman sues San Bernardino County

From the article:

Cindy Beavers, a spokeswoman for the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department, said she could not comment.

"I can tell you that anybody who comes in wearing any type of head covering -- they would have to remove it at the time of booking and that would be for security purposes," Beavers said.

Just great. The ACLU is still going with muslims (they being more equal than the rest of us ignorant American plebes) against any type of security in this country. Even though it would be difficult, how can we sue the ACLU? Because really, it's about damn time the ACLU be made to answer some serious discovery questions.

NY-effin-Times does it again, betrays a top secret US intelligence source:

American intelligence agencies reversed their view about the status of Iran’s nuclear weapons program after they obtained notes last summer from the deliberations of Iranian military officials involved in the weapons development program, senior intelligence and government officials said on Wednesday.

Hmmm. The US has a source who has access to the minutes of meetings by Iranian military officials "involved in the weapons development program". How many persons had this access? Thousands, hundreds? Or maybe a half dozen whose names are on an Iranian counterintelligence list now?

The notes included conversations and deliberations in which some of the military officials complained bitterly about what they termed a decision by their superiors in late 2003 to shut down a complex engineering effort to design nuclear weapons, including a warhead that could fit atop Iranian missiles. ...

Ultimately, the notes and deliberations were corroborated by other intelligence, the officials said, including intercepted conversations among Iranian officials, collected in recent months. It is not clear if those conversations involved the same officers and others whose deliberations were recounted in the notes, or if they included their superiors.

Hmmm ... So communications channels over which weapons engineering questions were discussed were vulnerable to interception. You guys in Teheran, please take note. Make sure you use these channels again.

re: #42 Ringo the Gringo

What's Ron Paul's religion?

Anyone know?

Episco-Paulian?

re: #42 Ringo the Gringo

What's Ron Paul's religion?

Anyone know?

Baptist. Check my #40.

re: #41 ploome hineni

I noticed that

maybe it was the most he could say

lol

That's a good question. What else could you say with a straight face that the ROP wouldn't take offense at?

The perseverance of the Muslim to keep his foot funkiness to a minimum?

His multi-culti speech still falls flat if you substitute Scientology or Islam as his religion...

Maybe he should become a Jehovah's Witness or a Moonie. You know, something mainstream and not rejected by the wide majority of the world's Christians. Oh wait.

I was a slightly apalled as his attack on secularists in America. Although not dismissing reason altogether, I suggest a good reading of Sam Harris' the end of faith. It embraces reason over faith, and starts with a sucicide bomber blowing himself up on a bus in Israel. It is a complex issue, and I do respect the right of all Americans to practice their faith lawfully, and separate from the constitution, but as a secular humanist and strong zionist, I felt like I was watching something straight out of the sixties. The brights are awakening, don't underestimate the need for reason based decision making in combating Islamism.

re: #45 Kenneth

Sounds like disinformation...

More drivel from HRW.

The United States incarcerates more people per capita than any other country in the world, Human Rights Watch said Wednesday, citing new US government figures.

At the end of 2006 more than 2.25 million persons were behind bars in US prisons and jails, an all-time high, the rights group said, citing figures from the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), a branch of the US Department of Justice.

HRW said the 2006 increase was the largest one-year jump in the last six years.

The number represents an incarceration rate of 751 per 100,000 US residents -- "substantially higher than that of Libya (217 per 100,000), Iran (212), and China (119)," HRW said in a statement.

For comparison, France's incarceration rate is 85 per 100,000, while the rate in Britain's is 148 and Canada is 107, HRW said.

"These figures confirm an unenviable record: the United States is the world's leading prison nation," said David Fathi, director of the US program at Human Rights Watch.

"The US is even ahead of governments like China that use prisons as a political tool," he said.

We have more people in prison because we don't summarily execute them like in other countries.

Speaking of Iran, there was another public hanging Wednesday.

OT

Bolton: The Flaws In the Iran Report

Rarely has a document from the supposedly hidden world of intelligence had such an impact as the National Intelligence Estimate released this week. Rarely has an administration been so unprepared for such an event. And rarely have vehement critics of the "intelligence community" on issues such as Iraq's weapons of mass destruction reversed themselves so quickly.

All this shows that we not only have a problem interpreting what the mullahs in Tehran are up to, but also a more fundamental problem: Too much of the intelligence community is engaging in policy formulation rather than "intelligence" analysis, and too many in Congress and the media are happy about it. President Bush may not be able to repair his Iran policy (which was not rigorous enough to begin with) in his last year, but he would leave a lasting legacy by returning the intelligence world to its proper function.

Consider these flaws in the NIE's "key judgments," which were made public even though approximately 140 pages of analysis, and reams of underlying intelligence, remain classified.

re: #47 Honorary Yooper

Saw it right after I posted.

Thanks.

/...I also like the answer at #46

re: #44 RickZ

Cindy Beavers, a spokeswoman for the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department, said she could not comment.

I hope that's a married name, because otherwise her junior high school life was hell!

re: #14 Lizard by the Bay

Grilling the man on his personal religious beliefs strikes me as decidedly un-American. I thought JFK put these issues to bed decades ago. But what I'd like to know is just who is making this necessary? Is it the born-agains and other "intolerant Christians" on the right (as we've been told), or is it really the leftist MSM trying to piss in our pot?

I tend to go with the MSM trying their best to make an issue out of nothing. As a Christian, I'm not really impressed by what the Book of Mormon says, or their founders. On the other hand I don't put that up as a litmus test for the presidency. There are other belief systems which I would argue automatically should rule a person out. Islam, for instance does not recognize national borders or national sovereignty. For this reason alone I do not think that any muslim should ever be allowed to hold public office.

re: #21 JammieWearingFool

Tomorrow, Mrs. Clinton will give a speech detailing her faith.

Saturday, she'll give another detailing her new faith.

"Those are my principles! If you don't like them, I have others."

--G. Marx

re: #40 Honorary Yooper

LDS is odd. Some Christians question whether it is actually a form of Christianity; some historians question pretty much everything about it; and Mark Twain had a great deal of fun at the expense of the Book of Mormon.

People wonder about it, and about its tenets.

That's why it's at least a bit of an issue.

Mohammad saw an angel in a cave... Joseph Smith saw an angel in a cave...The angel gave Mohammad the Koran...the angel gave Joseph Smith the book of Morman...Just saying.

re: #15 Ringo the Gringo

OT - Muslim woman sues San Bernardino County
The suit alleges sheriff's deputies violated her rights by forcing her to remove her head covering when she was booked in 2005.

That suit should be tossed out on it's head.

Mitt's a good guy. His religion should not be a problem. I think his only problem is that Rudy has more support. I would love to see a Rudy/Mitt ticket.

re: #59 storagemanager

Mohammad saw an angel in a cave... Joseph Smith saw an angel in a cave...The angel gave Mohammad the Koran...the angel gave Joseph Smith the book of Morman...Just saying.

When Mormons start suicide bombing campaigns, you will actually have a point worth making. Until then...

re: #59 storagemanager

Mohammad saw an angel in a cave... Joseph Smith saw an angel in a cave...The angel gave Mohammad the Koran...the angel gave Joseph Smith the book of Morman...Just saying.

And who gave Moses the Commandments?

re: #36 Lizard by the Bay

re: #29 marwan's daughter

We do the same with Keith Ellison.

I don't agree. It is not Ellison's personal faith that is the problem. It's the unsavory characters (who all happen to be members of that same faith) that he is funded by, surrounds himself with, and gives his true allegiance to that is the real problem. Islam would be a much nicer faith if it weren't for all the damned Muslims. :-)

Actually, it's both for most of the electorate. Why are people hell bent on denying reality?

You think Ellison would has a snowball's chance in hell of being a serious Presidential candidate? American culture hasn't eroded that far yet.

Whoa, you people are posting too fast.

/Mormons are human beings too, and they can sing

The Book of Mormon is supposed to be the account of people who came from the Middle-East to the Americas. It covers the period of about 600 B.C. to 400 A.D. It tells of the Jaredites, people from the Tower of Babel who came to central America but perished because of their own immorality. It also describes some Jews who fled persecution in Jerusalem and came to America led by a man called Nephi. The Jews divided into two groups known as the Nephites and Lamanites who fought each other. The Nephites were defeated in 428 A.D.
The Lamanites continued and are known as the American Indians. The Book of Mormon is supposed to be the account of the Nephite leader who was called Mormon as he wrote concerning their culture, civilization, and appearance of Jesus to the Americas.
Joseph Smith said "that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book" (History of the Church, Vol. 4, page 461).
The Book of Mormon is not of God

OT

PA accuses Hamas of stealing fuel from hospitals

For three days, Hamas has been preventing Gaza fuel companies from receiving fuel allocations sent from Ramallah. According to a Palestine Press news agency report, Hamas was stealing fuel and medical supplies sent from the PA Health Ministry in Ramallah to Gaza hospitals.

Wow. Just Wow.

re: #49 RoP_RIP

Do you know how to make your odd cult respectable? Acquire a major swath of territory (Utah for the Mormons, Loma Linda California for the 7th Day Adventists) or become immensely wealthy (Christian Science). The Jehovah's Witnesses haven't managed either; the Moonies...are working on it.

re: #14 Lizard by the Bay

Grilling the man on his personal religious beliefs strikes me as decidedly un-American. I thought JFK put these issues to bed decades ago. But what I'd like to know is just who is making this necessary? Is it the born-agains and other "intolerant Christians" on the right (as we've been told), or is it really the leftist MSM trying to piss in our pot?

This one's our own fault. Like Dick Gregory, I have to say, Come On, People.

There are very few saints. Fewer prophets yet. And the ratio of prophet to false prophet ought to teach us not to even think about trying to elect a prophet.

We don't need a president to be Religiously Correct. We need him to be wise in the ways of the world, with enough moral courage to act on that wisdom, enough energy and brains to be effective in action, and enough moral decency to act not for his own advantage but on behalf of the nation.

By that test, Romney will do. So will Rudy. So would most of the Republican slate. (Sorry, RP). For that matter, so would Biden or Obama, (sorry, Hildemort) though their policy prescriptions would mess up the economy and fray our security. Mistakes we can work through. Ill will or folly is harder to ride out.

re: #50 steveoh

I do respect the right of all Americans to practice their faith lawfully, and separate from the constitution...

"separate from the constitution" ?...What the heck is that supposed to mean?

And do you really refer to yourself as a "bright"?

re: #33 ploome hineni

Romney was put into a humiliating position

and he has to get up and make a speech like this?

very humiliating and very disturbing

maybe it was humiliating. but, at least we know he won't blow anything up or chop any heads off. or inspire anyone else to do so.

OT:

Hamas Militants Train for Attack on Israel

Armed members of Hamas are conducting practical drills for a possible attack on Israel.

FOX News had an exclusive look at the guerrillas as they trained with new Kalashnikovs in the Gaza Strip.

"The U.S. and Israel and other regional powers were generous enough to provide Fatah security with very good weapons, and now they are in our hands," one gunman told FOX News.

The Hamas militants say they are training for an Israeli military response to their persistent rocket and mortar fire aimed at Israeli towns. The gunman wouldn't say where they obtained the rocket-propelled grenades and roadside bombs.

"This training is part of the Hamas preparation to stop an Israeli offensive into the Gaza Strip," another gunman said. "We will hit them bad and many of them will be kidnapped."

re: #40 Honorary Yooper

hiya Yooper.
I think the answer is his Mormonism. Mormons are treated like dirt by the DNC/MSM. Because holy and precious all-knowing (yet entirely oblivious) DNC/MSMers control the media - we get heavy doses of left-wing religious bigotry. Mitt felt the need to answer. How sad. Notice also that Republicans are mocked for their religion - while democrats are hailed.
Biggest double standard going.

re: #12 Dogg_Zilla

Because a lot of people are unfamiliar with Mormonism. A lot of people demonize Mormons. Many are just a little wary. I think it's an important issue. Although I have nothing against Mormonism (more than any other religion) I don't think a Mormon can win the presidency.

re: #15 Ringo the Gringo

IIRC she was actually booked on a probation violation after blowing off her community service obligation which was her original sentence.

re: #51 tfc3rid

Disinformation? Maybe, but how can you tell?

One of the posters at the Belmont Club suggested the NIE was itself a disinformation operation designed to lull the Iranians inot a false sense of security, and therefore sloppiness. Then the US intelligence will find cold hard proof of their nuke program and the US military can bomb Iran.

That strikes me as more than a stretch.

re: #34 EC Marm

"I believe that every faith I have encountered draws its adherents closer to God. And in every faith I have come to know, there are features I wish were in my own: I love the profound ceremony of the Catholic Mass, the approachability of God in the prayers of the Evangelicals, the tenderness of spirit among the Pentecostals, the confident independence of the Lutherans, the ancient traditions of the Jews, unchanged through the ages, and the commitment to frequent prayer of the Muslims. As I travel across the country and see our towns and cities, I am always moved by the many houses of worship with their steeples, all pointing to heaven, reminding us of the source of life's blessings.

Mitt likes "the commitment to frequent prayer of the Muslims."

I don't have a problem with Muslim prayer 5 times a day. It's a lot of the other stuff they do that I find troubling. If all Muslims did was pray 5 times a day no one would care.

re: #73 NJDhockeyfan

It really is not all that often that one gets to see their tax dollars at work up close and personal. Kinda gives you a warm feeling all over?

Personally, I think Mitt could have used a few more flags.

Ten just wasn't enough for my taste.

re: #62 Lizard by the Bay

re: #59 storagemanager

Mohammad saw an angel in a cave... Joseph Smith saw an angel in a cave...The angel gave Mohammad the Koran...the angel gave Joseph Smith the book of Morman...Just saying.

When Mormons start suicide bombing campaigns, you will actually have a point worth making. Until then...

Well, Mormons still have some holdovers who practive polygamy. Also, the US fought a war against the Mormons in Utah. So there are legitimate similarities between the two. Wasn't there also a murder or two about some fake 'historical' Mormon letters/documents some years ago? Seems to also fit in as 'a point worth making', i.e., murder for dissing a 'religion'.

re: #67 storagemanager

Quite aside from "of God" or not, it's truly dreadful, from an archaeological or historical standpoint.

Brigham Young said. . .

"But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong." (Brigham Young, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 2, page 171. - 1855)

John Taylor said . . .

"We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense...Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century."( Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 167 - 1858)

"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (J.D.", Vol. 10, page 127. - 1863

re: #80 Ringo the Gringo

LMAO. Reading my mind.

re: #65 Iron Fist

re: #59 storagemanager,

The Mormons aren't out blowing up groups of schoolchildren to get great groupsex in Heaven. That's a pretty big difference between Mormons and Mohammedans.

And for some odd reason, I wouldn't feel nervous about boarding an airplane with a dozen male students from Brigham Young. I'd feel rather differently about the King Fahd Islamic Academy.

re: #62 Lizard by the Bay

re: #59 storagemanager

Mohammad saw an angel in a cave... Joseph Smith saw an angel in a cave...The angel gave Mohammad the Koran...the angel gave Joseph Smith the book of Morman...Just saying.

When Mormons start suicide bombing campaigns, you will actually have a point worth making. Until then...

One is a death cult, the other seems to keep coming up as a cult, over and over in public dialogs.

[Link: www.google.com...]

Strange, its almost as if millions of Americans believe Mormonism is some kind of bastardization of Christianity.

re: #6 storagemanager

Felt fake to me.

You gotta be kidding me!

Ellison having a shot at the Presidency is when hell freezes over.

re: #72 Kirly

re: #33 ploome hineni

Romney was put into a humiliating position

and he has to get up and make a speech like this?

very humiliating and very disturbing

maybe it was humiliating. but, at least we know he won't blow anything up or chop any heads off. or inspire anyone else to do so.

Look at it this way: Mitt had a great opportunity for media face-time. It's win-win if he uses this time wisely. I bet all the candidates would love an opportunity like this to explain themselves to the blood-thirsty MSM.

re: #68 hartabuna

OT

PA accuses Hamas of stealing fuel from hospitals

Wow. Just Wow.

Those poor Hamas "militants", forced to steal fuel because of Zionist occupation...quick let's send some more Palis to Switzerland for training programs on how not to be thugs and criminals.

re: #74 FrogMarch

I think the answer is his Mormonism. Mormons are treated like dirt by the DNC/MSM. Because holy and precious all-knowing (yet entirely oblivious) DNC/MSMers control the media - we get heavy doses of left-wing religious bigotry.

Evangelicals aren't terribly friendly to Mormons either: 'Vote for Romney is vote for Satan'

That's the word from Bill Keller, host of the Florida-based Live Prayer TV program as well as LivePrayer.com.

"If you vote for Mitt Romney, you are voting for Satan!" he writes in his daily devotional to be sent out to 2.4 million e-mail subscribers tomorrow.
...
Keller also comes out swinging against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints as a cult.

"This message today is not about Mitt Romney," he writes. "Romney is an unashamed and proud member of the Mormon cult founded by a murdering polygamist pedophile named Joseph Smith nearly 200 years ago. The teachings of the Mormon cult are doctrinally and theologically in complete opposition to the Absolute Truth of God's Word. There is no common ground. If Mormonism is true, then the Christian faith is a complete lie. There has never been any question from the moment Smith's cult began that it was a work of Satan and those who follow their false teachings will die and spend eternity in hell."

re: #89 Kaitian868

Ellison having a shot at the Presidency is when hell freezes over.

Thank g-d for global warming!

re: #78 FrogMarch

I don't have a problem with Muslim prayer 5 times a day. It's a lot of the other stuff they do that I find troubling. If all Muslims did was pray 5 times a day no one would care.

Exactly. There are plenty of Muslims whose faith only extends to attending religious services and perhaps adhering to dietary laws (and often times not even that). Call them Jack-Muslims if you must. I went to school with plenty of them, and am still friends with a couple.

The real problem has been the Saudi-funded wahhabists who are trying to "purify" Islam worldwide, and who control the public face of Islam (like CAIR) and use intimidation to silence the voice of moderate, pro-American Islam (which, thanks to their efforts, shrinks more every day).

The loathesome lawyer cult known as Westboro Baptist Church has produced its own music video!

Not only that, it is actually pretty good, a very funny send-up of the moonbat classic We are the World.
God Hates the World

You know what... I'm a Roman Catholic... I know why we have divisions among Christianity and I try and understand them better but I don't disregard the beliefs of a certain person...

For someone who is faithful, their faith is important... Whatever faith they may believe in and celebrate... I don't care if Mitt is a Mormon... Does he lead by example? Is he a leader? Does he share the values that I do?

That's what I care about.

does Mitt mention that according to Mormonism
he gets his own planet when he dies
and gets to summon not only his wife for the afterlife/afterparty
he also gets to summon other women as well

kinda sounds like the 72 virgins
except in Mormonism the number is limitless
not just 72

yeah Mitt, once the true Mormon stuff creeps out in the press
your campaign is cooked

re: #82 RickZ

re: #62 Lizard by the Bay

re: #59 storagemanager

Mohammad saw an angel in a cave... Joseph Smith saw an angel in a cave...The angel gave Mohammad the Koran...the angel gave Joseph Smith the book of Morman...Just saying.

When Mormons start suicide bombing campaigns, you will actually have a point worth making. Until then...

Well, Mormons still have some holdovers who practive polygamy. Also, the US fought a war against the Mormons in Utah. So there are legitimate similarities between the two. Wasn't there also a murder or two about some fake 'historical' Mormon letters/documents some years ago? Seems to also fit in as 'a point worth making', i.e., murder for dissing a 'religion'.

The Mormon church made a deal to drop polygamy for Utah's statehood, and they've kept their word. The polygamists are splinter groups that don't recognize the main Mormon church as legitimate.

-jcr

re: #77 Kenneth

You can't tell... But the NIE is a 180 from where we were a week ago and we need to find out why...

re: #83 Dianna

re: #67 storagemanager

Quite aside from "of God" or not, it's truly dreadful, from an archaeological or historical standpoint.

The Bible isn't exactly peer-reviewed, 100% rock-solid research in those areas, either.

The Doctrine and Covenants says . . .

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face" (Doctrine and Covenants, 112:23).

When the Mormon missionaries come to the door and do their "gospel" presentation, they mention an apostasy and the need for a prophet, their prophet, to restore the true Teachings of Jesus. Of course, these ‘restored' teachings are completely false.
Nevertheless, the Mormon church clearly condemns other religious systems. Those Mormons who complain about poor treatment should familiarize themselves with their teachers' words.

I had the great pleasure of having Mitt Romney serve as my governor.
He was a breath of fresh air. He vetoed just about every spending bill that came across his desk. He left the state with a budget surplus. He fought against in-state tuition for illegals. He worked with ICE and instituted a program where state troopers were allowed to inquire as to a person's immigration status. This, of course, was immediately rescinded by our new Moonbat, criminal-loving governor the minute too took the oath of office. He led the fight for the people of Massachusetts to have their voices be heard on a referendum qestion concerning gay marriage. This, of course, was quashed by the dem controlled legislature. He was instrumental in getting the corrupt midget, Billy Bulger, to step down as president of UMASS after he repeatedly pleaded the 5th in front of congress when queried about his serial killer brother's escape from justice. He offered the services of state troopers to help curb the violence in the Dorchester, Roxbury and Mattapan neighborhoods of Boston. This offer, of course, was not accepted by Mumbles Menino because he didn't want to piss of the BPD union.

In the entire time that Mitt was in office, not once did I get the impression that his Mormon faith interfered with his decision making or governing. I think he would make an excellent president and he will have my vote on primary day.

re: #87 RoP_RIP

If you're curious, you might read the Book of Mormon. I'd suggest trying to find one of the earliest editions, because they've been tossing things out as they go along.

re: #81 ploome hineni

re: #64 RoP_RIP

You think Ellison would has a snowball's chance in hell of being a serious Presidential candidate? American culture hasn't eroded that far yet.

there are so many reasons Elson had no chance whatever of being POTUS

his religion is way down the list

Eliison is a liar and not qualified

[Link: www.minnesotademocratsexposed.com...]

NEVER STOPPED A DEMOCRAT. ;-)

re: #15 Ringo the Gringo

OT - Muslim woman sues San Bernardino County
The suit alleges sheriff's deputies violated her rights by forcing her to remove her head covering when she was booked in 2005.

BUT, if they let her keep her scarf and she hung herself with it, there would be all kinds of lawsuits and protests.

I hope the cops dont capitulate.

re: #63 Allah al Fubar

re: #59 storagemanager

Mohammad saw an angel in a cave... Joseph Smith saw an angel in a cave...The angel gave Mohammad the Koran...the angel gave Joseph Smith the book of Morman...Just saying.

And who gave Moses the Commandments?

G-D. On a mountain top.

re: #26 tfc3rid

Eh, well, religion in America is sadly dwindling...

However, Mitt has to make a speech on this but this story caught my eye from yesterday from a now-fired Hillary staffer...
The outlandish e-mail claims, "The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States, one of their own!"

"Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim," goes the anonymous screed.

"THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED, 'ONE NATION UNDER GOD.' ALMIGHTY GOD, NOT THE GOD OF THE KORAN."

Do you suppose that is the dirty dark secret that the Hill campaign is keeping under wraps.

Is this thread necessary?

/before we start after another religion, and no, I don't agree with it

I have a freind who lives in Vegas, he tells me that Mormons make the best Poker dealers.

Clear-headed, honest to a fault and serious.

re: #92 Killgore Trout

That's the same guy that did the Mohammed Pig video. Of course, I can no longer find it because You Toob censored it.. after all, "we mustn't rile them".

re: #106 Kirly

re: #63 Allah al Fubar

re: #59 storagemanager

Mohammad saw an angel in a cave... Joseph Smith saw an angel in a cave...The angel gave Mohammad the Koran...the angel gave Joseph Smith the book of Morman...Just saying.

And who gave Moses the Commandments?

G-D. On a mountain top.

no caves involved.
what's with the caves?

re: #107 Eowyn2

You never know...

I just found that to be VERY interesting... Obviously, the staffer was fired...

re: #98 jcr

re: #82 RickZ

The Mormon church made a deal to drop polygamy for Utah's statehood, and they've kept their word. The polygamists are splinter groups that don't recognize the main Mormon church as legitimate.

-jcr

Yes, I agree, the Mormons were forced to renounce polygamy. But it still exists, and Mormons were my first lesson on the concept of polygamy when I was a kid. No offense, but that 'not recognizing the main Mormon church as legitimate' sounds vaguely familiar. Something about the 9/11 terrorists not being 'true' muslims. Jus' sayin'.

re: #100 Occasional Reader

The Bible, as you are very well aware, is a compendium of myth, folklore, law, poetry, and philosophy, with bits of actual chronicles thrown in.

The Book of Mormon is...not.

I will not go further than that, because there are many Mormons on this board, they are thoroughly decent people, and it's not fair to bash their faith.

re: #82 RickZ

Well, Mormons still have some holdovers who practive polygamy. Also, the US fought a war against the Mormons in Utah. So there are legitimate similarities between the two. Wasn't there also a murder or two about some fake 'historical' Mormon letters/documents some years ago? Seems to also fit in as 'a point worth making', i.e., murder for dissing a 'religion'.

Ahhh, the standard, boiler-plate, "Mormons are polygamists" argument. You do know that polygamy has been outlawed by the Mormon church for over a century, don't you? The polygamists may call themselves "real Mormons". I could call myself half-Martian. Doesn't make it so.

As for claiming there is a "legitimate reason" for lumping Mormons in with radical jihadis, well, I guess that just makes you awfully fucking stupid, doesn't it? You know the old saying, right? "Better to be thought of as an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

I won't vote Mitt...sorry.

re: #106 Kirly
He "borrowed" them for the Babylonians...
Did Moses steal the Ten Commandments?

re: #109 Ringo the Gringo

I have a freind who lives in Vegas, he tells me that Mormons make the best Poker dealers.

Clear-headed, honest to a fault and serious.

Those sound like good qualities to look for in a presidential candidate to me.

re: #92 Killgore Trout

re: #74 FrogMarch

I think the answer is his Mormonism. Mormons are treated like dirt by the DNC/MSM. Because holy and precious all-knowing (yet entirely oblivious) DNC/MSMers control the media - we get heavy doses of left-wing religious bigotry.

Evangelicals aren't terribly friendly to Mormons either: 'Vote for Romney is vote for Satan'

That's the word from Bill Keller, host of the Florida-based Live Prayer TV program as well as LivePrayer.com.

"If you vote for Mitt Romney, you are voting for Satan!" he writes in his daily devotional to be sent out to 2.4 million e-mail subscribers tomorrow.
...
Keller also comes out swinging against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints as a cult.

"This message today is not about Mitt Romney," he writes. "Romney is an unashamed and proud member of the Mormon cult founded by a murdering polygamist pedophile named Joseph Smith nearly 200 years ago. The teachings of the Mormon cult are doctrinally and theologically in complete opposition to the Absolute Truth of God's Word. There is no common ground. If Mormonism is true, then the Christian faith is a complete lie. There has never been any question from the moment Smith's cult began that it was a work of Satan and those who follow their false teachings will die and spend eternity in hell."

To be quite honest, some of us who are Christians (Catholic and Orthodox) aren't particulary enthused with evangelicals either.

re: #107 Eowyn2

No.

Romney's speech was solid. In this compressed primary time line no other candidate will be able to counter.
On the demo side you have " Ego" " Arrogance" and " Vanity.
Ladies and Gentlemen I would like to introduce the next president of the United States, Mr. Mitt Romney.

re: #67 storagemanager

The Book of Mormon is supposed to be the account of people who came from the Middle-East to the Americas. It covers the period of about 600 B.C. to 400 A.D. It tells of the Jaredites, people from the Tower of Babel who came to central America but perished because of their own immorality. It also describes some Jews who fled persecution in Jerusalem and came to America led by a man called Nephi. The Jews divided into two groups known as the Nephites and Lamanites who fought each other. The Nephites were defeated in 428 A.D.
The Lamanites continued and are known as the American Indians. The Book of Mormon is supposed to be the account of the Nephite leader who was called Mormon as he wrote concerning their culture, civilization, and appearance of Jesus to the Americas.
Joseph Smith said "that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book" (History of the Church, Vol. 4, page 461).
The Book of Mormon is not of God

John 21; 25: And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be awritten every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the bbooks that should be written. Amen.

Not of God?

#7 lawhawk

You would think that JFK ended the line of questioning about religion more than 40 years ago.

Exactly my thoughts when I heard clips on radio news this a.m. I was wondering when he was going to mention Kennedy.

Now that I see the video, I'm wondering: do you think Romney had enough flags?

re: #103 Dianna

re: #87 RoP_RIP

If you're curious, you might read the Book of Mormon. I'd suggest trying to find one of the earliest editions, because they've been tossing things out as they go along.

Well, other than the violence, the meteor and the whole burka burka thing, that is a major difference between islam and the LDS church. The LDS church revises itself on the little things (like bigamy.)

re: #116 storagemanager

I won't vote Mitt...sorry.

/let's refrain from piling on

re: #110 Allah al Fubar

Yeah, it's the same guy. I consider him another unsavory bigot climbing on the antiJihad bandwagon.

re: #115 Lizard by the Bay

As for claiming there is a "legitimate reason" for lumping Mormons in with radical jihadis, well, I guess that just makes you awfully fucking stupid, doesn't it? You know the old saying, right? "Better to be thought of as an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

Thanks for that. You're too kind. But I guess that's your version of 'boiler-plate'.

re: #51 tfc3rid

You know, when you examine what they finally let out regarding the Israeli incursion into Syria recently, and the fact that quite a few players who would normally be bitching up a storm were stone silent, I can believe we may be moving pieces on a chess board.

re: #112 tfc3rid

Fired? with full benefits?
Monica L was fired or quit as well. Then she had to join the other underpaid, overworked college kids. Wonder if this staffer is getting ready for her/his new position as legal assistant at the Clinton Library.

Off to Staples.

BBL

re: #119 Honorary Yooper

I have no problem with theological debates or differences in interpretation but once it degrades to vilification,name calling, and and bigotry it's gone too far.

re: #122 Oh no...Sand People!
The book of Mormon claims to add to the Bible...Revelation 22
18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen.

re: #67 storagemanager

All hail.

Much like Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney can't win a traditional southern State in a general election.

/let's just leave it at that

re: #87 RoP_RIP

Wasn't a letter found, some years ago, where Joseph Smith confided to a friend that the angel story was a lie. Isn't that the end of the story.

re: #31 elBarto

If the mormoms believed in teh violent overthrow of the consitution i would question that. islam is the joining of religion and politics.

That's not true. If anything Islam is religious rule in the absence of politics.

re: #123 I_Invented_Al_Gore
he needed one more centralized

re: #124 Eowyn2

It was the late 70's before they dumped the doctrinal passages that claimed that blacks were inferior. After poor Donny and Marie Osmond were subjected to a "gotcha" interview, as I recall, that drew attention to it.

It's interesting.

re: #132 storagemanager

re: #122 Oh no...Sand People!
The book of Mormon claims to add to the Bible...Revelation 22
18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen.

You are smarter than that...The Apocalypse of John was written before the GOSPEL OF JOHN...please look over commensense chronology. In an earlier thread I did err in saying that the Apolalypse of John was written before all 4 gospels, in that I was wrong it is St. John.

I know..let's go to Deuteronomy where Moses says the SAME THING...bye bye 3/4's of the Holy writ...oops.

re: #134 Killian Bundy

Much like Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney can't win a traditional southern State in a general election.

What if Mitt was running against Hillary?...Somebody would have to win.

Mitt has two problems (on the Right and the Left).

On the Right you have evangelicals who view Mormons as heretics following the Devil. These people really dis-like and some even hate Mormonism. I know when I was growing up on the East Coast this was my only experience of Mormonism. I thought it was a bit over the top even as a kid, but I thought that about many of the things the more adamant people in my church believed.

On the Left, most of them hate Christ. I mean HATE! The Left is filled with people that believe Atheism should be the state religion and (I don't know how but they do) that the 1st Amendment dictates that Atheism should be the state religion. I have had discussions with these types where they tell me all the Founders were atheists. These are the type of people that cheer every time a kid is molested by a priest.

Neither of these people are going to vote for Mitt. The Left will vote against him. The Right will refuse to vote at all (because that is what pissed off people on The Right do, they foolishly withhold a vote, as if that isn't effectively voting for a Dem)

Nothing Mitt (or anyone else) can do will change these people's minds.

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

The threshold for my vote.

re: #62 Lizard by the Bay

Storagemanager's observation is a fairly transparent one. Is there a problem with stating it the way he did, or is it the fact he stated it that rubs you the wrong way? Just askin'.

re: #140 Ringo the Gringo

What if Mitt was running against Hillary?...Somebody would have to win.

Perhaps it's our chance to test the question, "What if an election was held and nobody came?"

re: #139 Oh no...Sand People! I will post no more on this...but...I will not vote Mitt...again sorry.

I'm trying to throttle my urge to make popcorn for this thread.

re: #135 littleO

I think that was a forgery? I'm not sure of that, btw.

re: #84 storagemanager

Brigham Young said. . . "But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong." (Brigham Young, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 2, page 171. - 1855)

John Taylor said . . .

"We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense...Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century."( Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 167 - 1858)

"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (J.D.", Vol. 10, page 127. - 1863

Context would be nice. All quotes refer to how Christianity was practiced by the different sects and the need for a restoration of the complete gospel of Christ. (You don't have to like it, it just that we believe the true gospel and the priesthood authority was lost sometime after Christ's atonement).

We, I am LDS, believe in Christ as our Savior, our interlocutor with God, our teacher and our perfect example. We talk of Christ, teach his doctrines, read his word, attempt to follow his teachings... I could care less if you think I am Christian, I worry about what God thinks. We do not adhere to the Nicean creed's definition of God (God the Father Jesus, and the Holy Ghost as one), for that we are branded as non-Christian (false, but hey you will define who is Christian anyway you want) and polytheistic (true, but not in the Zeus, Mars, Hera type of way).

I don't want to engage in a huge discussion, but I can't let selective quoting go unanswered. If you doubt our Christianity, come to our church and here us talk of Christ, read our tracts, heck ask any dopey kid on a bike wearing a white shirt and name tag. You certainly do not have to agree or believe like us, but get it right.

re: #113 RickZ

Yes, I agree, the Mormons were forced to renounce polygamy.

I wouldn't say "forced". They cut a deal.

-jcr

re: #141 EvilDave3

Mitt has two problems (on the Right and the Left).

On the Right you have evangelicals who view Mormons as heretics following the Devil. These people really dis-like and some even hate Mormonism. I know when I was growing up on the East Coast this was my only experience of Mormonism. I thought it was a bit over the top even as a kid, but I thought that about many of the things the more adamant people in my church believed.

On the Left, most of them hate Christ. I mean HATE! The Left is filled with people that believe Atheism should be the state religion and (I don't know how but they do) that the 1st Amendment dictates that Atheism should be the state religion. I have had discussions with these types where they tell me all the Founders were atheists. These are the type of people that cheer every time a kid is molested by a priest.

Neither of these people are going to vote for Mitt. The Left will vote against him. The Right will refuse to vote at all (because that is what pissed off people on The Right do, they foolishly withhold a vote, as if that isn't effectively voting for a Dem)

Nothing Mitt (or anyone else) can do will change these people's minds.

We take away good paying customers...the money train hates that. If you could make up a business in where you got paid money for talking good rhetoric in appeasing people to make them feel good and be TAX EXEMPT...dang rights I would be a pastor. But I am Mormon, therefore, devote a lot of my time for FREE to what I believe...

re: #140 Ringo the Gringo

What if Mitt was running against Hillary?...Somebody would have to win.

What if Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are the respective nominees?

/slightly less likely

re: #132 storagemanager

For some who take Revelation literally, then yes, I can see it... but I see the Book of Revelation as one regarding those who were being Martyred for the beliefs and not necessarily regarding the end times...

re: #122 Oh no...Sand People!

You have to get a bit deeper into the LDS theology to understand why "Our Father who art in Heaven" is a stretch coming from them (albeit true to the words), but did you know that the father had a father? And he before him? Ad infinitum? Just sayin'.

re: #146 Occasional Reader

Hey, I'm a pagan intellectual. I've read most scriptures and the material around them. I like theology. Can I share your bowl? I'll supply some butter.

re: #42 Ringo the Gringo

Ron Paul is a Catholic.

re: #82 RickZ

Wasn't there also a murder or two about
some fake 'historical' Mormon letters/documents some years ago? Seems
to also fit in as 'a point worth making', i.e., murder for dissing a
'religion'.

You're thinking of Mark Hoffman, a brilliant forger & a disaffected Mormon, whose greatest forgeries involved attempting to unfavorablly rewrite Mormon history. He murdered two people in an attempt to cver up his forgeries. The story would make a great movie.

Sorry...I didn't mean to offend...I should have put more thought...before posting.

re: #59 storagemanager

Mohammad saw an angel in a cave... Joseph Smith saw an angel in a cave...The angel gave Mohammad the Koran...the angel gave Joseph Smith the book of Morman...Just saying.

Cite your sources. I think you're a bit . . . off.

re: #143 Cap'n DOC

Storagemanager's observation is a fairly transparent one. Is there a problem with stating it the way he did, or is it the fact he stated it that rubs you the wrong way? Just askin'.

I was raised around Mormons. Had a Mormon best friend for much of my life. I even had Mormons in my family for a time (a divorce has made this not true now). There isn't one of them who I wouldn't trust because of their faith. They are good people, and while their beliefs may seem odd to some, there is nothing dangerous about them.

So yes, I will get pissed off when some intolerant troglodyte here tries to equate them with the enemy of all Judeo-Christian society. And yes, storagemanager and RickZ, I am talking about you.

re: #160 Lizard by the Bay
Your a bit late...by the way...I didn't call anyone names.

#102 loppyd:

instituted a program where state troopers were allowed to inquire as to a person's immigration status

Not sure what that accomplishes, actually... "are you here illegally?" No. "Ah... well, then, carry on."

#154 Dianna:

Can I share your bowl? I'll supply some butter.

EEEK! TRANS FATS! CRUCIFY HER! CRUCIFY HER!

re: #135 littleO

re: #87 RoP_RIP

Wasn't a letter found, some years ago, where Joseph Smith confided to a friend that the angel story was a lie. Isn't that the end of the story.

I have no idea. I'm mostly commenting to offset the inane arguments put forth by some around here that Romney's faith isn't an issue for many voters. Or the proclamations that they are bigots for not accepting all beliefs for any reason, for any office in a position of power over our lives.

I'd love to hear those same masters of PC advocate "religion X" in their arguments for Romney.

Romney made the calculation that out of all the positions he will change if politically expedient, his church wasn't one that would be accepted by the public.

He referenced that decision in his speech? His underwear are showing.

re: #145 storagemanager

re: #139 Oh no...Sand People! I will post no more on this...but...I will not vote Mitt...again sorry.

Don't get me wrong, vote how you want, no big deal, it's just so many talking points about Mormonism are so flawed it cracks me up. If people have the agency to make assertions about my faith, I have the agency to have a civilized discussion on why those assertions are valid or not.

We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. We believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

You are all big boys and girls. If you really want to know what we believe go to the source and read the Book of Mormon and read your Bible, Old and New Testaments, or read your Bible, Old and New Testaments, and THEN the Book of Mormon...doesn't matter the order...they work together.

re: #113 RickZ

re: #98 jcr

re: #82 RickZ

The Mormon church made a deal to drop polygamy for Utah's statehood, and they've kept their word. The polygamists are splinter groups that don't recognize the main Mormon church as legitimate.

-jcr

Yes, I agree, the Mormons were forced to renounce polygamy. But it still exists, and Mormons were my first lesson on the concept of polygamy when I was a kid. No offense, but that 'not recognizing the main Mormon church as legitimate' sounds vaguely familiar. Something about the 9/11 terrorists not being 'true' muslims. Jus' sayin'.

But, the converse is also true. The LDS does not recognize the FLDS - the splinter group that practices polygamy in southern Utah and northern AZ.

Actually... #154 Dianna:

Hey, I'm a pagan intellectual.

What do you mean by "pagan"?

re: #97 Adrenalyn

does Mitt mention that according to Mormonism
he gets his own planet when he dies
and gets to summon not only his wife for the afterlife/afterparty
he also gets to summon other women as well

kinda sounds like the 72 virgins
except in Mormonism the number is limitless
not just 72

yeah Mitt, once the true Mormon stuff creeps out in the press
your campaign is cooked

All the above is a complete distortion. Entrance into heaven of a woman is hers alone to gain or lose.

I have never heard anything remotely like 72 virgins taught in church.

You blithely call life after death for us an 'afterparty'. Where did that come from, it is inaccurate beyond belief.

I don't know if you consider yourself Christian, but lies and distortion do not generally fit into any Christian creed (even Mormonism!) BTW, if the planet thing is true, make mine filled with Tahiti's!

re: #160 Lizard by the Bay

So yes, I will get pissed off when some intolerant troglodyte here tries to equate them with the enemy of all Judeo-Christian society. And yes, storagemanager and RickZ, I am talking about you.

Go fuck yourself. That's my 'boiler-plate' for you.

re: #159 father_of_10

Somebody was linking to an article the other day claiming that atheists and Islamists are ideological bedfellows. At some point to just have to shrug these things off.

re: #158 storagemanager

Sorry...I didn't mean to offend...I should have put more thought...before posting.

/ Islam. Mormonism, what's the difference?

re: #141 EvilDave3

On the Right you have evangelicals who view Mormons as heretics following the Devil. These people really dis-like and some even hate Mormonism. I know when I was growing up on the East Coast this was my only experience of Mormonism. I thought it was a bit over the top even as a kid, but I thought that about many of the things the more adamant people in my church believed.

As an evangelical, I'd say there's a difference between thinking someone else's theology is wrong, and disliking those persons holding that theology. I do think there are significant differences between Mormonism and most kinds of Protestants--and Catholics, too, for that matter.

But there's got to be a difference between "I wouldn't go to his church" and "I wouldn't vote for him." As a voter, what I care about is where a candidate stands on the issues I care about. One of those issues is terrorism.

I have no issues with Romney, and am seriously considering him.

Candidates should not be rejected from running because of their faith, but that deesn't mean my personal decision process should not include concerns about how that colors his actions. My concern with Romney as a self-proclaimed devoted Mormon, is twofold.

1. If he understands and believes the historically false, illogical and cultish doctrine of Joe Smith, then I fault him for being deceptive, or not very smart. He doesn't strike me as stupid.

2. If he doesn't really know the history and teachings of his religion and is just a pew-warmer, then I fault him for being unwilling to dig into the roots of his belief system...Not really somebody I want for president.

Although I appreciate many of his positions, I just have a queasy feeling about him. Bottom line, if he gets the GOP nomination, he gets my vote. But I won't support him over Rudy or Huck.

re: #148 coquimbojoe

Oh, dear!

We do not adhere to the Nicean creed's definition of God (God the Father Jesus, and the Holy Ghost as one), for that we are branded as non-Christian (false, but hey you will define who is Christian anyway you want) and polytheistic (true, but not in the Zeus, Mars, Hera type of way).

Your doctrine is vaguely Arian on the Trinity, but that's not enough to eject you from Christianity (though it is problematic for some of the stricter Trinitarians). The problem is this bit:

it just that we believe the true gospel and the priesthood authority was lost sometime after Christ's atonement

That's where the Christian churches are going to choke.

A person should not be elected because of his faith nor should he be rejected because of his faith

I disagree. I would not want a muslim, an agnostic, an atheist, a satanist, or an environmentalist running the USA. Sorry. Just wouldn't.

I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers – I will be true to them and to my beliefs.

and yet they will not influence his decisions as President?

There is one fundamental question about which I often am asked. What do I believe about Jesus Christ? I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind. My church's beliefs about Christ may not all be the same as those of other faiths. Each religion has its own unique doctrines and history. These are not bases for criticism but rather a test of our tolerance.

Tolerance is good only if the thing being tolerated is good, or of no consequence. Some people, in their desire to promote "tolerance", would easily tolerate anything and everything. In my house, " tolerance" is a four letter word.

I believe that every faith I have encountered draws its adherents closer to God.
Scary.

"We separate church and state affairs in this country, and for good reason. No religion should dictate to the state nor should the state interfere with the free practice of religion. But in recent years, the notion of the separation of church and state has been taken by some well beyond its original meaning. They seek to remove from the public domain any acknowledgment of God. Religion is seen as merely a private affair with no place in public life. It is as if they are intent on establishing a new religion in America – the religion of secularism. They are wrong.

I totally agree.

And the rest of the speech after this was very good. I was hoping however, that he would share with us the Mormon plan for becoming a god, and some of the other interesting Mormon beliefs.

All my disagreements with him though, wouldn't keep me from voting for him if I had to do it to defeat a democrat.

But he convinced me more than before that I'd rather have Hunter, Thompson or Fred if I have the choice. If I don't...well, Mr. Romney will et my vote...I'll ask for forgivness later.

re: #95 Shiplord Kirel

The loathesome lawyer cult known as Westboro Baptist Church has produced its own music video!

Not only that, it is actually pretty good, a very funny send-up of the moonbat classic We are the World.
God Hates the World

Can that please qualify as a hate crime?
Not that I believe in such a PC constructs such as hate crimes, but since they got on the books any way, this would be a perfect bunch of people to use it on.

re: #123 I_Invented_Al_Gore

Now that I see the video, I'm wondering: do you think Romney had enough flags?

I was wondering the same thing... only 10? I'm thinking he's soft on patriotism...

Seriously, Romney's Mormonism does not bother me. He seems to have a good track record as a governor. He also seems excessively slick and chameleon-like. I need to know more. Like... what's up with the magic underwear?

re: #156 Arthur McGowan

No, he's not. He's a Baptist.

I'm not sure of which convention, though.

re: #100 Occasional Reader

re: #83 Dianna

re: #67 storagemanager

Quite aside from "of God" or not, it's truly dreadful, from an archaeological or historical standpoint.

The Bible isn't exactly peer-reviewed, 100% rock-solid research in those areas, either.

No, it's not. It wasn't meant to be historical or archaeological either. When the Church fathers got together at the various Church councils in the 4th Century, they chose which books they thought should be in the Bible, and which ones they thought should not. That's why we have the four Gospels we do, and we don't have the Gospel of Thomas.

Later on, the protestants removed some of the books called the Apocrypha. These books are stiil used by the Orthodox and the Catholics.

re: #151 Killian Bundy

re: #140 Ringo the Gringo

What if Mitt was running against Hillary?...Somebody would have to win.

What if Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are the respective nominees?

/slightly less likely

It would never happen, but say it did...I guess I would vote for Ron Paul, at least with Paul I'd get a tax cut.

On the other hand, Romney vs Clinton is quite possible.

re: #168 RickZ

Go fuck yourself. That's my 'boiler-plate' for you.

Oh no. Some intolerant fuck doesn't like me. Whatever will I do?

re: #157 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

re: #82 RickZ

Wasn't there also a murder or two about
some fake 'historical' Mormon letters/documents some years ago? Seems
to also fit in as 'a point worth making', i.e., murder for dissing a
'religion'.

You're thinking of Mark Hoffman, a brilliant forger & a disaffected Mormon, whose greatest forgeries involved attempting to unfavorablly rewrite Mormon history. He murdered two people in an attempt to cver up his forgeries. The story would make a great movie.

Mark Hoffman was the bomber, he was also the forger. The Church bought the documents and made them public even though they were very difficult to square up with our teachings. The leaders of the Church got duped into buying a false document, but to their credit immediately made it available for historical study. There was no cover up from the Church.

re: #170 Killian Bundy

re: #158 storagemanager

Sorry...I didn't mean to offend...I should have put more thought...before posting.

/ Islam. Mormonism, what's the difference?

Please. Huge freaking difference.

re: #160 Lizard by the Bay

My background is much akin to yours. I draw the line at criticizing religion (except for mohammedanism) because everyone is entitled to believe as they will. Their 'family values' are worthy of respect in a society that seems to be getting farther and farther away from that perspective.

re: #166 Occasional Reader

In so far as I'm willing to discuss it, I'm a believer in the Roman gods as an intellectualized abstraction.

You can think of me, if you like, as a philosophical deist with anthropomorphic tendencies.

I do not worship fuzzy bunnies, or the earth, or any modern silliness, and I reject the notion of an immanent deity.

That's as much as I'm willing to say.

re: #182 coquimbojoe

re: #170 Killian Bundy

re: #158 storagemanager

Sorry...I didn't mean to offend...I should have put more thought...before posting.

/ Islam. Mormonism, what's the difference?

Please. Huge freaking difference.

Not to some jerk-offs here.

Play nice people.

re: #156 Arthur McGowan

re: #42 Ringo the Gringo

Ron Paul is a Catholic.

Seriously? Or are you just baiting the Paulians lurking about?

Update on my class final:
This past Tuesday, as some of you know, I presented my final project in the graduate philosophy course entitled, "Religion and Violence". Naturally, the syllabus was designed to focus of the evils of the West (crusades, manifest destiny, WWI, II, vietnam, iraq, civil war, slavery, etc.). I had a surprise, however. The thesis for my final presentation, "Fundamental Islam is a threat to American Way of Life". I actually refined my thesis dow from "Islam in Inherently Violent". I did not however, sugar-coat the contents. I in 35 minutes, I gave a brief overview of Mo's life, history of conquests, explanation of abrogation and it's significance in regards to violence. And reasons why everyone should be aware. Situation in europe, treatment of women, etc., etc. I finished with a video of Gaza Kindergarten Graduation. You could have heard the crickets chirping. My goal was to convince them to spend some time and research islam themselves. Hopefully there is at least one less potential dhimmi in that class.
I know I made an impact because another student (a Jewish girl who was going to prove that it was only a tiny minority of islamic extremists) declined to present and turned her project in in writing only. Said she did not feel well.
The professor was not extremely pleased, but he said my organization and presentation was excellent. Some things are more important that grades.

This thread makes me sad. Speaking as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it's a pity that people here choose to focus on his faith rather than his substance. I would've thought that, on LGF at least, we would be above the "I can't vote for a Mormon" meme. It really is sad to see a good candidate and a great faith trampled underfoot because some may not be as receptive to the message of a loving father or the idea of a man who holds good, decent Christian values in the White House. Apparently, religious bigotry isn't relegated to the left anymore, at least when a Mormon (gasp) is involved.

re: #184 Dianna

I do not worship fuzzy bunnies

Why not? They're cute.

re: #156 Arthur McGowan

re: #42 Ringo the Gringo

Ron Paul is a Catholic.

yeah, right there's a lot of so called catholics out there. There's alot of so called Catholic voters out there to. Neither spend much time in church.
Remember the argument in the media about whether communion should be given to politicians who support abortion or are divorced and remaried. Well, If these politicians were serious Catholics they wouldn't go to communion under those circumstances.

re: #187 Dotcoman

re: #156 Arthur McGowan

re: #42 Ringo the Gringo

Ron Paul is a Catholic.

Seriously? Or are you just baiting the Paulians lurking about?

He's baiting. Check out my #40. Ron Paul is a Baptist.

re: #114 Dianna

re: #100 Occasional Reader

The Bible, as you are very well aware, is a compendium of myth, folklore, law, poetry, and philosophy, with bits of actual chronicles thrown in.

The Book of Mormon is...not.

I will not go further than that, because there are many Mormons on this board, they are thoroughly decent people, and it's not fair to bash their faith.

But is IS fair for YOU to bash MINE?

huh. nice one.

re: #179 Ringo the Gringo

It would never happen, but say it did...

And what if the Confederates had a B-52? They had kerosene but what about a flight crew?

/mark my words, Clinton will never oppose Romney in the 2008 general election

I have nothing against Mormons, but they do have some interesting beliefs:

God (Elohim) was born on a planet called Kolob.
He had several spirit children, including Jesus and Lucifer.
Elohim came to Earth and became Adam ('As man is, God once was; as
God is, man may become').Later Adam-Elohim had sex with Mary and Jesus was born.
Jesus had 3 wives and children.
There are 3 levels of heaven: terrestial, telestial, and celestial.
In the afterlife, we can be gods, too, with spouses and spirit children.
And others too numerous to be mentioned here.

re: #184 Dianna

In so far as I'm willing to discuss it, I'm a believer in the Roman gods as an intellectualized abstraction.
...
That's as much as I'm willing to say.

That's unfortunate, I'd love to hear more. Which Roman era? Mithra or Zeus?

re: #183 Cap'n DOC

Amen! And thank you for bringing up what it's really all about. One of my favorite South Park episodes is the one called "All About Mormons". Not because it appears to ridicule Mormonism by being literal about it, but for the ending.

The Mormon kid says, "Look, maybe us Mormons do believe in crazy stories that make absolutely no sense, and maybe Joseph Smith did make it all up, but I have a great life. and a great family, and I have the Book of Mormon to thank for that. The truth is, I don't care if Joseph Smith made it all up, because what the church teaches now is loving your family, being nice and helping people. And even though people in this town might think that's stupid, I still choose to believe in it. All I ever did was try to be your friend, Stan, but you're so high and mighty you couldn't look past my religion and just be my friend back. You've got a lot of growing up to do, buddy. Suck my balls."

A beautiful ending, and it says everything about the Mormons better and more eloquently than I ever could.

I don't really give a rat's rump about Romney's religion; as long as it isn't Islam, and he doesn't have his thumb stuck out for the next passing comet, or Carry's Kool-aid around in his briefcase and starts building a compound in a South America jungle.

re: #176 Q-Burn

re: #123 I_Invented_Al_Gore

Now that I see the video, I'm wondering: do you think Romney had enough flags?

I was wondering the same thing... only 10? I'm thinking he's soft on patriotism...

Seriously, Romney's Mormonism does not bother me. He seems to have a good track record as a governor. He also seems excessively slick and chameleon-like. I need to know more. Like... what's up with the magic underwear?

Great question about the flags, but do you always ask men about their underwear?

/ WE mormons who have been through the temple wear temple garment. They are a personal and private symbol to us of the covenants we have made with God at Baptism and in the temple. They serve as a personal reminder of this on a daily basis. Practically speaking they help enforce modesty. The underwear is hardly magic, it does produce some giant wedgies occasioinally. In our minds, it is not much different than the clerical collars or frocks worn by many priests and pastors, prayer shawls (?) by Hasidic Jews, or underwear by Sikhs. It is a personal reminder of our commitments. If it could make me look 30 pounds lighter, it would be 'magic'!

re: #185 Lizard by the Bay

re: #182 coquimbojoe

re: #170 Killian Bundy

re: #158 storagemanager

Sorry...I didn't mean to offend...I should have put more thought...before posting.

/ Islam. Mormonism, what's the difference?

Please. Huge freaking difference.

Not to some jerk-offs here.

I like most of those 'jerk-offs', I just wish they were better informed...

re: #189 Brain-Washed Sheeple

It shouldn't be a surprise to you but don't let it get you down. People denigrate atheism here all the time and I get along just fine.

re: #182 coquimbojoe

Right.

/but the question wasn't directed at you

Dianna:

Jupiter.

Fuzzy bunnies.

Which is cuter? It ain't even close. You're worshipping the wrong entities.

re: #195 cygnus

I have nothing against Mormons, but they do have some interesting beliefs:

God (Elohim) was born on a planet called Kolob.
He had several spirit children, including Jesus and Lucifer.
Elohim came to Earth and became Adam ('As man is, God once was; as
God is, man may become').Later Adam-Elohim had sex with Mary and Jesus was born.
Jesus had 3 wives and children.
There are 3 levels of heaven: terrestial, telestial, and celestial.
In the afterlife, we can be gods, too, with spouses and spirit children.
And others too numerous to be mentioned here.

FYI: These are not true. The rest, yes.

Elohim came to Earth and became Adam ('As man is, God once was; as
God is, man may become').Later Adam-Elohim had sex with Mary and Jesus was born.
Jesus had 3 wives and children.

re: #194 Killian Bundy

/mark my words, Clinton will never oppose Romney in the 2008 general election

Words marked.

re: #190 Occasional Reader

So are kittens and puppies; in fact, I could use a puppy-cuddling fix right now. But they are not God, and I do not worship them.

re: #156 Arthur McGowan

re: #42 Ringo the Gringo

Ron Paul is a Catholic.

According to WIKI Ron Paul is a Baptist.

re: #202 Killian Bundy

re: #182 coquimbojoe

Right.

/but the question wasn't directed at you

Thanks for the clarification!

re: #193 Owl

I'm not bashing your faith to note how the Bible was composed.

re: #207 EC Marm

According to WIKI Ron Paul is a Baptist.

No surprise there.

re: #201 Killgore Trout

And you know what the best part of that is? One of the 13 main tenets of our faith is that we "claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

But WE'RE the intolerant ones. I have plenty of Atheist friends... the head of our College Republicans is even Atheist, but I hold nothing against him or them... if only we were afforded the same luxury.

re: #207 EC Marm

According to WIKI Ron Paul is a Baptist.

Well he sure looks like a Catholic.

re: #184 Dianna

re: #166 Occasional Reader

In so far as I'm willing to discuss it, I'm a believer in the Roman gods as an intellectualized abstraction.

You can think of me, if you like, as a philosophical deist with anthropomorphic tendencies.

I do not worship fuzzy bunnies, or the earth, or any modern silliness, and I reject the notion of an immanent deity.

That's as much as I'm willing to say.

So far I'm just thinking of you as a major jerk.

re: #196 Killgore Trout

I'm sorry, but the subject is closed.

re: #40 Honorary Yooper

I posted this in the dead thread, but it is relevant here:

#660 Honorary Yooper 12/06/07 8:16:30 am reply quote report 0

I have a really stupid sounding question (at least stupid for those in our media):

Why does Mitt Romney's religion matter? (Latter Day Saints)

How about Barak Hussein Obama's religion and his father's religion? (United Church of Christ / Islam)
How about Mike Huckabee's religion? (Southern Baptist)
Or, for that matter, Hillary Clinton's religion? (United Methodist)
What about John Edwards's religion? (United Methodist)
Or, Bill Richardson's religion? (Roman Catholic)
Or, Rudy Guiliani's religion? (Roman Catholic)
Dare I ask about Fred!'s religion? (Church of Christ)
Or, for the coup de gras, Ron Paul's religion? (Baptist)
(Gotta include Ron Paul in here or the Paulians will scream.)

Why does Romney get scrutiny when the others do not?
Do I sense bias in the MSM?

It's not only bias in the MSM. With the growth of the LDS church, the evangelists became alarmed that they were losing members to the Mormons. And that matters a great deal, because every evangelical church is supported by it's congregation, whereas, there are no paid ministers in the LDS church - in every chapel, everyone is a volunteer, including the bishop (pastor). Therefore, it became a matter of survival for the evangelicals to inoculate their members against learning about or joining the LDS church.

If I found a book buried in the dirt in Vermont, that told me I could have several wives . . .

re: #189 Brain-Washed Sheeple

This thread makes me sad. Speaking as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it's a pity that people here choose to focus on his faith rather than his substance. I would've thought that, on LGF at least, we would be above the "I can't vote for a Mormon" meme. It really is sad to see a good candidate and a great faith trampled underfoot because some may not be as receptive to the message of a loving father or the idea of a man who holds good, decent Christian values in the White House. Apparently, religious bigotry isn't relegated to the left anymore, at least when a Mormon (gasp) is involved.

Not just Mormons. They do this crap to Catholics and Orthodox too. Hell, according to some, I'm not even a real Christian for being a Catholic.

re: #153 Cap'n DOC

re: #122 Oh no...Sand People!

You have to get a bit deeper into the LDS theology to understand why "Our Father who art in Heaven" is a stretch coming from them (albeit true to the words), but did you know that the father had a father? And he before him? Ad infinitum? Just sayin'.

I don't and will not deny our belief. Here are some intracacies of our faith for those who care...if not...feel free to move along.

***CAUTION SOUL PROTECTION REQUIRED. Heh.***

1. We believe that we are Children of God. Spiritually, direct descendants. Physically, through the lineage of Adam and Eve.

2. Therefore we are all Spirit Brothers and Sisters, literally. Physically when we all trace our lineage back to Adam. (We do are best to treat everyone as such...but sometimes I can be a jerk...sorry all.)

3. There was a giant meeting where we all were before we came to Earth on how we could take the next step in our 'progression'. An Earth was to be formed and peopled. Therefore we could get a body. God the Father had a body, (we believe resurrected beings have perfected bodies..."Flesh and bone as ye see me have..." and we did not have bodies at the time, being Spirit Children. (But the BIBLE in GENESIS 1:1 SAYS 'IN THE BEGINNING!' Click here to check out the Mormon take on Genesis. Paragraph 16 for those who don't want to read the whole thing.)

4. Adam and Eve were put on the Earth to start to process of 'multiplying' for us to get our bodies. Here we are.

5. According to our theology, the same process we are going through to get a body, is the same one God the Father went through...hence, he has a Father, who has a Father...

Just something to chew on.

re: #212 Ringo the Gringo

re: #207 EC Marm

According to WIKI Ron Paul is a Baptist.

Well he sure looks like a Catholic.

What do Catholic's look like?

Out for a bit; I must pretend to work so they can pretend to pay me.

I believe that Wiki used to refer to Bush as a born-again Evangelical for years, when in fact the man has been Methodist ever since his marriage to Laura. Don't trust Wiki. Or perhaps, Trust wiki, but verify.

Me?...I'm a bad Catholic.

re: #219 storagemanager

What do Catholic's look like?

Ron Paul.

re: #223 Ringo the Gringo

re: #219 storagemanager

What do Catholic's look like?

Ron Paul.

funny...my sister n' law doesn't look like Ron Paul.

re: #221 Lizard by the Bay

[Link: pewforum.org...]
Second source - Baptist.

re: #95 Shiplord Kirel

The loathesome lawyer cult known as Westboro Baptist Church has produced its own music video!

Not only that, it is actually pretty good, a very funny send-up of the moonbat classic We are the World.
God Hates the World

My reply to Phelps:
John 3:16
Romans 5:8
I John 5:11-12
Also, please go away somewhere where we will never hear from you again. You're an embarrassment to Americans in general and true believers in particular. And take your brainwashed, interbred 'church' with you.
Pretty good singing, by the way. What a total waste of talent!

Religion is as Religion does.

/'nuff said

re: #218 Oh no...Sand People!

I've heard that theory.

Isn't that what the movie "Mission to Mars" was all about?

Seriously.

re: #199 coquimbojoe

Thanks! Always learning something new around here...

re: #224 buzzsawmonkey

A bad Catholic, or a naughty Catholic?

Just bad...The naughty Catholics are really bad.

Ron Paul looks a bit like Marshall Applewhite to me.

Reason is man's means of survival. Faith is its antithesis. The Founding Fathers were Diests, not devout religionists, who invoked god's name only because mankind had not yet reached the philosophical sophistication to express axioms any differently.

The justification for freedom, liberty, private property and individual rights are found through reason, not through the notion that the universe is haunted.

re: #224 buzzsawmonkey

A bad Catholic, or a naughty Catholic?

You maybe a naughty Catholic if:

-The priest has to interrupt your Confession in order to take a cold shower

re: #225 storagemanager

funny...my sister n' law doesn't look like Ron Paul.

Have you seen her without makeup?

re: #195 cygnus

I have nothing against Mormons, but they do have some interesting beliefs:

God (Elohim) was born on a planet called Kolob.
He had several spirit children, including Jesus and Lucifer.
Elohim came to Earth and became Adam ('As man is, God once was; as
God is, man may become').Later Adam-Elohim had sex with Mary and Jesus was born.
Jesus had 3 wives and children.
There are 3 levels of heaven: terrestial, telestial, and celestial.
In the afterlife, we can be gods, too, with spouses and spirit children.
And others too numerous to be mentioned here.

I swear, you and RickZ, storagemanager and snowman must be cut from the same cloth. Are you sure your are on the right website? This is Little Green Footballs, not "I hate Mormons dot com". You need to take your lies and hate elsewhere.

Let me be a bit clearer: You are an IDIOT. You are STUPID. You are either a liar or a MORON.

Is that clear?

Now, to make things better for all of mankind, please go back to KOS and the liberals, you will do the world a favor by being there and not here.

re: #235 Ringo the Gringo

re: #225 storagemanager

funny...my sister n' law doesn't look like Ron Paul.

Have you seen her without makeup?

lol

re: #234 Occasional Reader

re: #224 buzzsawmonkey

A bad Catholic, or a naughty Catholic?

You maybe a naughty Catholic if:

-The priest has to interrupt your Confession in order to take a cold shower

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! LOL!

That must be some confession! :-)

So long people.

Play nice.

re: #212 Ringo the Gringo

re: #207 EC Marm

According to WIKI Ron Paul is a Baptist.

Well he sure looks like a Catholic.

I don't agree. I can picture Ron Paul on the side of some Appalachian mountain, inside of a one room Church, eyes rolled back, serpent weaving up and down his arm as he speaks in tongues.

re: #59 storagemanager

Mohammad saw an angel in a cave... Joseph Smith saw an angel in a cave...The angel gave Mohammad the Koran...the angel gave Joseph Smith the book of Morman...Just saying.

Early Christians held that Jesus was born in a cave.

Just sayin'

re: #189 Brain-Washed Sheeple

This thread makes me sad. Speaking as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it's a pity that people here choose to focus on his faith rather than his substance. I would've thought that, on LGF at least, we would be above the "I can't vote for a Mormon" meme. It really is sad to see a good candidate and a great faith trampled underfoot because some may not be as receptive to the message of a loving father or the idea of a man who holds good, decent Christian values in the White House. Apparently, religious bigotry isn't relegated to the left anymore, at least when a Mormon (gasp) is involved.

So, what? I'm supposed to just not say anything if I have objections? I don't know about everyone else, but if I can't point out why I don't like things, I might as well not have an opinion on anything. I guess I can't say that I believe that Mormons are wrong about alot of things? I can't say that I believe Mormonism is more cult-like than Christian-like? Why not? I'm not " bashing" anyone or anything - I'm expressing my beliefs and opinions( as others are) on Mormonism and it's relevance in a presidential race - and in life in general for that matter. But somenoe is always crying that there's all this " bashing" going on! Give me a break.

Dianna has the right to insult my beliefs, and I don't think it's bashing - I just think she or it or whatever is just a jerk for the tone of it. If I really posted what I thought about some "Christian" groups here, the thing would blow up into a mud-slinging frag fest.

Look, anyone wanting to know about the teachings of the Mormon faith can easily look it up online. use your head, verify from multiple sources( hopefully some from the church itself) and draw your own conclusions.

but saying that LGF is somehow bashing anything is absurd.

and again, tolerance as defined today is just another way to say " you better accept everything, even if you believe it's wrong".

I say: to heck with tolerance. I'm going to listen to my heart and my convictions when considering the facts.

re: #241 EC Marm

re: #212 Ringo the Gringo

re: #207 EC Marm

According to WIKI Ron Paul is a Baptist.

Well he sure looks like a Catholic.

I don't agree. I can picture Ron Paul on the side of some Appalachian mountain, inside of a one room Church, eyes rolled back, serpent weaving up and down his arm as he speaks in tongues.

lol

re: #233 Boston Patriot

Reason is man's means of survival. Faith is its antithesis.

/chalk up one totally non-mutual exclusivity

re: #217 Honorary Yooper

re: #189 Brain-Washed Sheeple

This thread makes me sad. Speaking as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it's a pity that people here choose to focus on his faith rather than his substance. I would've thought that, on LGF at least, we would be above the "I can't vote for a Mormon" meme. It really is sad to see a good candidate and a great faith trampled underfoot because some may not be as receptive to the message of a loving father or the idea of a man who holds good, decent Christian values in the White House. Apparently, religious bigotry isn't relegated to the left anymore, at least when a Mormon (gasp) is involved.

Not just Mormons. They do this crap to Catholics and Orthodox too. Hell, according to some, I'm not even a real Christian for being a Catholic.

What I love about the Catholic Church is that it sticks to its doctrines and teachings in the face of political correctness.

re: #233 Boston Patriot

Actually, most of the founding fathers worshiped regularly at Anglican (later Episcopal) churches. Perhaps philosophically some of them would refer to themselves as "deist", but for all outward appearances they were typical Protestants of the day.

re: #195 cygnus

I have nothing against Mormons, but they do have some interesting beliefs:

God (Elohim) was born on a planet called Kolob.
He had several spirit children, including Jesus and Lucifer.
Elohim came to Earth and became Adam ('As man is, God once was; as
God is, man may become').Later Adam-Elohim had sex with Mary and Jesus was born.
Jesus had 3 wives and children.
There are 3 levels of heaven: terrestial, telestial, and celestial.
In the afterlife, we can be gods, too, with spouses and spirit children.
And others too numerous to be mentioned here.

For an accurate representation of LDS beliefs you can go to
The Encyclopedia of Mormonism by McMillian Publishing

re: #178 Honorary Yooper

Church councils are just that, councils. They bring together council from allover the church. most often the Pope himself is not involved.
As for the book of Thomas, I saw a very, very, very, deceptive documentary on that book. The documentary slanted from the beginning by acting like the documents were newly found. The documentations never brought up that the early church ( fourth century), I think, debated the Thomas book evenly and did not find it to be divinely inspired.
Scoff if you want to. But, the Church actually contemplates and deliberates over challenges to the church doctrines, or different interpretations, sometimes for centuries.

re: #243 Owl

Dianna has the right to insult my beliefs, and I don't think it's bashing

Actually:

a) She didn't "insult" your beliefs, and

b) You did call her post "bashing" (post #193).

re: #34 EC Marm

Mitt likes "the commitment to frequent prayer of the Muslims."

Is that all you were able to garner from that speech? Reading this particular thread I am starting to feel like a Lizard in an ice cave. As a member of the LDS church I think it is sad that people are focusing more on Mitt's religion than on his accomplishments and stances on the issues.

I don't know Mitt, but I do attend church with one of his direct relatives. From everything I've seen of their family they look like people I wouldn't mind my kids hanging out with, and to me that is the bottom line. If we really want a candidate that exudes the personal character and values that reflect ours then why would I want someone who has been married three times, and had a long term affair before ditching his wife. It smells Clintonesque to me.

re: #2 Carl in Jerusalem

OT - US prevents launch of satellite to spy on Iran

Good Morning Charles!

Is there faith in America?

Faith in the almighty Petrol-Dollar apparently from reading the article you posted.

Are there Muslims running the State Department? This is insane!

I think the Communists are still leading our America loathing, Uncle Joe worshiping, Internationalists appeasement monkeys that infect our US State Dept. around by the nose ring. However, that Religion would not preclude them from helping an enemy of the United States, any enemy they can find to help, actually. Especially one that pays well.

We need to fire all of those devotes to the Religion of State. Good grief there are still devotees of Jimmy Carter hanging on over there. And no one's yet fired a Clintonista (of the true believers) or any of Madam Albright's sycophants.

I still think we should round up everyone directly below Condi and toss them into Gitmo, and then waterboard I mean aggressively interrogate the dog crap out of them, untill we discover the extents of their treason.

That or force the worst of the worst to accept duty in Iraq, and when they don't fire the lot of them.

re: #243 Owl

I say: to heck with tolerance.

What a wonderful philosophy! Who's up for another Thirty Years War?

The Thomas book is Gnostic...that is why it was refused.