Which will you choose -- submission or assassination?

Take your time deciding, but know this: The bullet hurtles onward.

Wow

An excellent overview from the UK's Telegraph -- "Why the fanatics wanted Benazir Bhutto dead"

Well said. We have become 'too tolerant' because those we tolerate wish to kill us because they do not believe in tolerating us.

Something wicked this way comes...

You can't spell it out much more clearly than he did.

Firstly, I don't think that they will see it as a threat to their way of life.
Secondly, the European elites seem to be more into appeasement over activiely dealing with the problem at hand - assimilation.
Thridly, like Spain, I think they'll cower in their holes until it is much too late.

It is too late for Europe. It is already lost and they don't even know it. They don't have the courage to stand up against Islam. And this time even we can't bail them out.

re: #3 gonecamping

Well said. We have become 'too tolerant' because those we tolerate wish to kill us because they do not believe in tolerating us.

re: #3 gonecamping

Well said. We have become 'too tolerant' because those we tolerate wish to kill us because they do not believe in tolerating us.

...and they also exploit our tolerance.

It's a good column, Scott, but they won't get it until it's one of their own.

Brief and on target. Very well put! Who will listen?

Your secularism, your democracy will not stand. The growing Muslim populations in your own lands that you have done so much to tolerate, protect and celebrate, will soon rise up against you. Sharia law shall become your law. The Caliph shall rule you.

That was very good.

This might wake up the Euros out of their PC "can't confront Islam on an Ideological level" sleep, but I doubt it.

Wondering about control of Pakistan's "Jewish physics" packages in light of all that "instability"... Thoughts not very good...

Ott nailed it.

Cling, if you will, to your professors who drone on about the legitimate grievances of oppressed peoples who wish only to be left alone. Your cartridge clicks into the chamber.

Sing yourself to sleep each night with an ode to peaceful co-existence. The crosshairs find your throat.

Cup your hands over your ears to muffle the unthinkable warnings. The finger squeezes the trigger.

This describes the Left in the U.S. quite aptly as well.

Europe is just too lazy to do anything but wave a white flag.

A very scary piece of writing which, undoubtedly, will never find its way into the minds and hearts of the world's leaders. We will never know whether Bhutto's politics and thoughts about what is best for her people would have made any change in Pakistan or in the region. And now, we have to fear that the same Islamo fascists will attempt to take down Musharraf and gain control of some of Pakistan's nukes. What a nightmare scenario this is turning out to be. Where are the leaders of the free world, those that have the wherewithal, the fortitude, the knowledge to stand up to this madness? Only time will tell, truly, whether we will win this battle of ideologies. God Bless Us All.

I'm convinced that nothing will wake them - even when it gets closer and closer. Riots in Paris? They don't get it. 7/7? They don't get it. Murders in the Netherlands? They don't get it.
Ostriches with their heads buried.

Wow, powerful stuff.

The assassination of former Pakistan Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, whose funeral was held today, has been blamed on al Qaeda and the Taliban.
They were accused of the killing by Interior Minister Hamid Nawaz who said he had evidence which solved the "whole mystery".

He was speaking after Ms Bhutto was laid to rest in a ceremony attended by hundreds of thousands of grief-stricken mourners.

[...]

Ms Bhutto's murder has sparked violence across Pakistan and thrown next month's elections into doubt.

At least 32 people have died in the riots. Police have been told to shoot if necessary to maintain law and order.

Troops are patrolling the streets of Hyderabad and Karachi, where an earlier attempt was made on Ms Bhutto's life.

Despite the turmoil Pakistan's caretaker Prime Minister Mohammadmian Soomro has said elections will still go ahead on January 8.

"Right now the elections stand where they were," he told a news conference. "We will consult all the political parties to take any decision about it."...

[Link: jihadwatch.org...]

Good article. I am afraid our leaders and the euro's won't get it...

I'm glad parts of the internet are focusing the discussion right where it belongs. The attempts to gain politically from this atrocity are muddying the facts and aiding in the willful ignorance people are wont to pursue.

Good for Ott. When an excellent satirist gets serious, people tend to sit up and take notice. This is a powerful message -- let's hope it gets some attention.

Which will you choose -- submission or assassination?

There is third choice. But, will you see it.. in time?

/can't we all just get along?

re: #10 Sharmuta

It was their own on 3/11 in Madrid. They've seen what the Islamists can do up close, and yet they choose appeasement and to blame the US for the Islamists, who were around before the US even existed, but who have used the situation in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan to metastasize and become even more violent, using the very technology and tools developed by the West as the means of our demise.

Ott's warning applies to the vast and silent majority of line-and-let-live Muslims too. Their turn will inevitably come if the Salafiists win.

re: #18 rhythman

A very scary piece of writing which, undoubtedly, will never find its way into the minds and hearts of the world's leaders. We will never know whether Bhutto's politics and thoughts about what is best for her people would have made any change in Pakistan or in the region. And now, we have to fear that the same Islamo fascists will attempt to take down Musharraf and gain control of some of Pakistan's nukes. What a nightmare scenario this is turning out to be. Where are the leaders of the free world, those that have the wherewithal, the fortitude, the knowledge to stand up to this madness? Only time will tell, truly, whether we will win this battle of ideologies. God Bless Us All.

One might think that the Islamofascists might at least have been grateful to Benazir Bhutto for her fathers' having founded the Pakistani Islamic Atomic Bomb project, which will eventually fall into their hands if we do nothing.

But Islamofascism only disdains, kills and disposes of their useful tools like the the Bhuttos, the left, etc.

Well put. It's getting to be time to declare open season on the jiha(m)di movement.

A good article, it is unfortunate that the leadership in western nations is so slow to comprehend this threat. Dhimmicrats seem to be rushing to embrace their new overlords.
___
Sharpen the sticks, cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the chimps of war.

re: #22 coquimbojoe

Good article. I am afraid our leaders and the euro's won't get it...

Agreed. Great article; they won't get it. And they won't see the threat that Jihadism poses to democracy.

As the WSJ noted this morning:

Bhutto warned that while the jihadist movement would never have the popular support to win an election in its own right, they had sufficient means at their disposal to "unleash against the population, to rig an election, to kill the army and therefore to make it possible to take over the state." Today those words seem grimly prophetic.

Succinct. Brutally on point.

Should be translated widely!

Europe is doomed, let's face it. They have stopped reproducing and will be minorities in their own countries if current immigration and birth rates continue. They have lost the will to defend themselves and do not have the intestinal fortitude to rise up and meet a threat. They have the lovable but ignorant Americans (in their minds) for that. The bloated socialistic societies they have build are quickly aging and cannot be sustained. Maybe when Sharia law gets installed in England or Germany will they realize what a screwed up mess they have on their hands. A resurgent Russia, flush with PetroEuros on their eastern flank, a disenchanted and not willing to assimilate ethnic minority growing daily inside of their countries...things are not looking good for them. Yet, they still look at us like we are cavemen.

They are not killing you for anything your country did...or for anything your leaders said...they are killing you...because Mohammad told them to.

Just a fear mongering piece. we've all been told over and over that Islam is a religion of peace. they dont want us to convert (they dont even call it conversion, it is reversion) and they dont want to rule the world under a caliph. All they want is to be left peacefully alone; once Israel is pushed into the sea, the suez canal is closed. the mullahs and the sheiks can go back to beheading those who use their wells in the desert. We really need to leave them alone. Even if the Islamists get hold of nukes, we all know that they know it would be suicide to use them and therefore would not take the risk of turning the half of Africa to glass.

I better NOT need sarc tag.

Ralph Peters in todays NY Post editorial "gets it" In fact he nails it.

CNN is reporting right now that the Interior Ministry of Pakistan is alleging that Bhutto did not die from gun shots. She did not die from bullets nor from shrapnel from the bomb blast. No. Instead the Interior Minister claims that she died from a blow to the back of the head...a skull fracture that's due to the bomb blast throwing her back and she struck her head on a lever at the back of the sun roof. yeah, that's it. (is this laughable or what?) Even the CNN anchor listening for the supposed bomb "blast" said he could not hear the blast, and instead he heard what he believed were 3 gun shots...(Nick Robertson says that contradictory reports are common in Pakistan...also there are no autopsies (against Islamic law).) Anyway, this may only serve to fuel more wild speculations and rumors. (Just go with the gun-shots -- there's also that photographer from Getty Images who also heard the gun shots and saw Bhutto slump down into the Land Cruiser...

These suicidal Europeans liberals and socialists view people as a disease anyway! What's it going to take to wake them up? You've got to be kidding me! More car-b-ques? A rage boy on every corner? A foot washing station at every car wash? (Not that we're any better with Presidential candidates apologizing and implicating us for another ROP attack on civilization.) Bhutto was no saint, but she sure showed more guts than the majority of these politicos. Great piece of writing.

Europe has too much guilt, having witnessed the horrors of WW I and WW II, then the Western Alliance provided too much security and comfort during the Cold War. Due to these things, they will now do anything to maintain that peace and comfort, even if it results in their complete subjecation.

re: #26 lawhawk

Those who don't wish to appease seem to want to choose just as dangerous a solution. I don't think the killing of a woman in a far away country will wake them to anything. If Madrid or London didn't wake them- why should Bhutto? And if the jihadis were to kill a european leader, I still don't think they'd get it.

re: #35 Eowyn2

Just a fear mongering piece. we've all been told over and over that Islam is a religion of peace. they dont want us to convert (they dont even call it conversion, it is reversion) and they dont want to rule the world under a caliph. All they want is to be left peacefully alone; once Israel is pushed into the sea, the suez canal is closed. the mullahs and the sheiks can go back to beheading those who use their wells in the desert. We really need to leave them alone. Even if the Islamists get hold of nukes, we all know that they know it would be suicide to use them and therefore would not take the risk of turning the half of Africa to glass.

I better NOT need sarc tag.

No. But you should have at least signed it, Mr. Paul.

Leftists deserve nothing more than what they apparently seek via "tolerance" and "diversity." It's just too bad their malignant narcissism affects everyone.

re: #8 manray favjet

It is too late for Europe. It is already lost and they don't even know it. They don't have the courage to stand up against Islam. And this time even we can't bail them out.

We can. But it's going to make Dresden look like a camp fire.

re: #10 Sharmuta

It's a good column, Scott, but they won't get it until it's one of their own.

Unfortunately, I do think that it is as simple as that. Even with it, there will still be a sizable number who will still insist that appeasement (negotiation / diplomacy) will be best long term strategy regardless.

Powerful stuff. He makes good points. It's the politicians (not just of European countries but the dreaded EU) and the loony left academics and journalists who can't see whats under their noses.
The People are not that stupid. It's just that it is very difficult to get our points across. Politicians are trying to blank us out because to listen would mean they would have to solve the problems that they have created. Problems that would not exist, or would be far less serious if they were capable and could make decent decisions. But the anger is beginning to become palpable. They won't be able to ignore it for much longer.

re: #38 chee toe

More car-b-ques?

New name for Car Swarm? Charles, take note.

OT:

And the results are in!

The Best Notable Quotables of 2007 - The 20th Annual Awards for the Year's Worst Reporting

Common Knowledge states that Bhutto was killed because she intended to clear out the terrorists/insurgents along the Afghan-Pak border.

Therefore, it is incumbent upon Musharraf to do this, to deny her killers their true objective.

I like to boil things down, when it's needed. There's too much "talk," and not enough "plain" going on.

Sharia law shall become your law. The Caliph shall rule you.

This has been their gameplan for many an eon, long before there ever was an America (sorry you blame America first crowd, it's true).

It's just that now they have the means through funding (oil revenues), technology and membership along with a willing, submissive, ignorant populace assisting them in pursuit of their long term goals.

I just hope that those that are blind, will see sooner than later. For all our sakes.

re: #19 Kaptain

I'm convinced that nothing will wake them - even when it gets closer and closer. Riots in Paris? They don't get it. 7/7? They don't get it. Murders in the Netherlands? They don't get it.
Ostriches with their heads buried.

When just your head is buried, your ass is exposed.

OT:

Rosie "fire can't melt steel" O'Donnell named 2007's Most Annoying Celebrity

Some of her more insightful comments from 2007 are listed.

re: #40 Sharmuta

re: #26 lawhawk

Those who don't wish to appease seem to want to choose just as dangerous a solution. I don't think the killing of a woman in a far away country will wake them to anything. If Madrid or London didn't wake them- why should Bhutto? And if the jihadis were to kill a european leader, I still don't think they'd get it.

There will be a sizable number who will continue to press for accomodation and appeasement - willing to pay the dhimmi tax - rather than fight...but depending on the leader(s) and the time - there is still a silent majority in Europe that will decide to fight. My fear is that when that happens, they will be too few and the enemy too deep inside the political and social systems for the few to win.

If we took the conditions of 1940 to today - perhaps only Britain would have the internal fortitude to stand alone again - and with the internal pressure, the odds would be far longer than faced in 1940.

re: #45 Is it me?

I've heard this before - that "the people on the street" get the threat and really support the 'War on Terror' (or whatever one wants to call it) but
talking to people who've visited Europe recently sure hasn't reassured me.

re: #31 Lucius Septimius

re: #22 coquimbojoe

Good article. I am afraid our leaders and the euro's won't get it...

Agreed. Great article; they won't get it. And they won't see the threat that Jihadism poses to democracy.

As the WSJ noted this morning:

Bhutto warned that while the jihadist movement would never have the popular support to win an election in its own right, they had sufficient means at their disposal to "unleash against the population, to rig an election, to kill the army and therefore to make it possible to take over the state." Today those words seem grimly prophetic.

Thanks for the link. Pray for the new year if you are the praying type.

re: #16 loppyd

Ott nailed it.

Cling, if you will, to your professors who drone on about the legitimate grievances of oppressed peoples who wish only to be left alone.

Quite a few of these "professors" drone on deliberately to deceive, for their purpose is the destruction of Western culture (leftists) and conversion by any means including taqiyyah and support of terrorism (Al Arian and that ilk).

re: #48 Wino

Common Knowledge states that Bhutto was killed because she intended to clear out the terrorists/insurgents along the Afghan-Pak border.

Therefore, it is incumbent upon Musharraf to do this, to deny her killers their true objective.

Oh, you can guarantee it. With or without Pervez. It will get done. What choice is there?

You know who is looking at a big problem? The UK. How many Paks are living there?

Ugh.

re: #8 manray favjet

I don't agree, in part because if we write off Europe then we are, in a way, just as guilty of appeasement -- agreeing to turn over a divided Europe to an aggressive power because, well, we just can't think of any other alternative at the moment. It's the Sudetenland writ large. Beyond that, to surrender the old core of western civilization would be to betray that civilization. It is hard enough in America to defend the notion that the cultural legacy of the Old World needs to be preserved and passed on to the next generation: the fall of Europe would give the Leftist cultural nihilists an even stronger argument to support their attack on our culture. Finally, I do not think it is fair to say that Europeans want to surrender, and here I mean not only the "old Europeans," but also a good part of the immigrant population. Yes, there are problems with the Islamic immigrants, but there are many of those who came to Europe precisely to flee the creeping power of Islamism.

The problem, it seems to me, is that we're hearing only some of the voices -- the only alternatives we are presented with is the old socialist status quo and the various "nationalist" movements. But there are alternatives -- there have to be alternatives -- and we have seen those alternatives in action during the latter phases of the Cold War (Thatcherism springs to mind as well as the West German abandonment of the "Great Coalition's" policy of appeasing communism in the late 70s).

There are still options, and they need to be explored. Jihadists must remain a tiny minority whose political power is way out of proportion to it's size (Bhutto understood that clearly) -- the question is about putting together an effective coalition to isolate and defeat that minority. For my part, I would like to hear more about tactics and strategy and less about abandoning our positions.

OT,

11 Iranian Special Forces Killed in Iraq

Yeeahh, well, but let's not go to overboard on this, folks, cuz after all, we didn't really learn anything *new* about third-world politics from this. Yes it confirms all the worst anyone can allege, but, that ain't news.

re: #26 lawhawk

re: #10 Sharmuta

It was their own on 3/11 in Madrid. They've seen what the Islamists can do up close, and yet they choose appeasement and to blame the US for the Islamists, who were around before the US even existed...

Excellent point!
History? huh?
/

Also, if Bhutto was shot from behind (as was originally reported), the momentum would have propelled her forward, then back. (I also suspect that she died en route to hospital -- also not consistent with a fractured skull). Also the physics -- how far is the sunroof's edge from the back of her head? would have taken quite a blast...which, strangely, no one sees or hears on the videotape...instead you get a pop, pop, pop (along with light flashes)...I'm thinking that Pakistan is demonstrating (increasingly) that it is a failed state...

re: #37 J.S.

CNN is reporting right now that the Interior Ministry of Pakistan is alleging that Bhutto did not die from gun shots. She did not die from bullets nor from shrapnel from the bomb blast. No. Instead the Interior Minister claims that she died from a blow to the back of the head...a skull fracture that's due to the bomb blast throwing her back and she struck her head on a lever at the back of the sun roof. yeah, that's it. (is this laughable or what?) Even the CNN anchor listening for the supposed bomb "blast" said he could not hear the blast, and instead he heard what he believed were 3 gun shots...(Nick Robertson says that contradictory reports are common in Pakistan...also there are no autopsies (against Islamic law).) Anyway, this may only serve to fuel more wild speculations and rumors. (Just go with the gun-shots -- there's also that photographer from Getty Images who also heard the gun shots and saw Bhutto slump down into the Land Cruiser...

This is going to have as many conspiracy theories as the Kennedy assassination. Wait till Oliver Stone decides to make a movie about it.

Seriously, could this mean that it was an inside job? Someone in her car killed her in case the main attack failed?

Kudos, Scott. Too many idiots have been telling me that they have legitimate grievances and such. They may, but when they decide to destroy lives instead of airing those grievances to the UN or some other entity. Islam has been and is a menace from Day One. Europe and other nations better start recognizing this. And I think they will. But too many people will die along the way.

re: #47 loppyd

OT:

And the results are in!

The Best Notable Quotables of 2007 - The 20th Annual Awards for the Year's Worst Reporting

Does it get any more anti-american than keeth olberman?

re: #41 unrealizedviewpoint

re: #35 Eowyn2

Just a fear mongering piece. we've all been told over and over that Islam is a religion of peace. they dont want us to convert (they dont even call it conversion, it is reversion) and they dont want to rule the world under a caliph. All they want is to be left peacefully alone; once Israel is pushed into the sea, the suez canal is closed. the mullahs and the sheiks can go back to beheading those who use their wells in the desert. We really need to leave them alone. Even if the Islamists get hold of nukes, we all know that they know it would be suicide to use them and therefore would not take the risk of turning the half of Africa to glass.

I better NOT need sarc tag.

No. But you should have at least signed it, Mr. Paul.

that's commander in chickenshit Paul to you.

Well said. We've been saying the same thing, albeit less forcefully, for a long time. Will this laest restatement be heard? Will its hearing have any more effect than it's had before?

re: #59 Lucius Septimius

Fundamentally, it really doesn't matter if we write off Europe or not - the issue is, has Europe decided to write itself off or not? That is the basic question that Ott is asking Europe. Was the Spanish response to Madrid the model for Europe or is there another model - and if so, when or what will it take for Europe to wake up and demonstrate the will to undertake that other model?

By almost every measure except two critical ones, France should have defeated Germany (or held out a lot longer) in 1940. But leadership and will were not there. Six weeks later - France surrendered. In Madrid - leadership and will were not present and the majority of the population decided that appeasement was more convenient despite the history of appeasement's fallacy.

Europe will need to decide what to do - and then hope that they did not leave it until it is too late like many fear.

re: #66 Sponge

re: #47 loppyd

OT:

And the results are in!

The Best Notable Quotables of 2007 - The 20th Annual Awards for the Year's Worst Reporting

Does it get any more anti-american than keeth olberman?

One of the worst documented cases of BDS.

The BF knows to change the channel when he speaks during the Sunday night football games.

I'm just wondering - if it gets really bad in Pakistan and people start leaving, where do they go? Not India. Afghanistan? Where?

Mark Steyn's analysis was closer. Bhutto's return to Pakistan was not a great thing for democracy, that was wishful thinking. Bhutto's time as Prime Minister was not the stuff of good governance, which opened the door to military overthrow. Please read up on the Bhutto family and their dominance over the Pakistan political scene for several decades to be less swayed by the MSM's propaganda that she was the shining light of democracy. There is too much of the anti-Musharraf knee-jerk reaction coloring the picture emanating from the media and the Left based soley on the MSM's desire to paint him as another of Bush's lap dogs, a completely grotesque and ignorant portrayal of the man and the politics of Pakistan.

Mark is absolutely right that the Pakistan that Bhutto left is not the same one that she returned to. There is no way she would have been able to govern the country had she managed to get herself voted back in. Then what? Another crisis, and the radicals move one, two, three steps closer to central power. Then what? Seems the Left is more interested in tearing things down without sober and practical thought about consequences. Pakistan is not a homogenous nation - it has a number of langauges and ethnic groups that don't get along all that well - it's a nation that teeters on the edge of partition along ethnic lines.

Pakistan has nukes. India has noticed this, to put it mildly. The LEFT in the USA and in India just succeeded in scuttling the long-term US-India strategic agreement that the Bush administration has been working on for the past several years. Why? Why did the LEft of both countries not want to see a strong US-India military alliance?
A radically-controlled Pakistan would set its sights first on India, at least that's how the Indians see it, and it'd be hard to argue they don't have a point.

The Left elites scream democracy all of a sudden, which needs stability first to operate well. The timing is peculiar and self-serving of people who don't have to live with the reality on the streets of Pakistan.

The first response to the Islamofascists is a military one, kill them first before they kill your people. They've proved quite plainly, as the above commentary highlights, that they have no restraints on their consciences to murder and massacre.

re: #71 wahabicorridor

I'm just wondering - if it gets really bad in Pakistan and people start leaving, where do they go? Not India. Afghanistan? Where?

England. Maybe Canada.

re: #71 wahabicorridor

To the UK...to Canada...where else?

re: #71 wahabicorridor

I'm just wondering - if it gets really bad in Pakistan and people start leaving, where do they go? Not India. Afghanistan? Where?

UK. US. Canada.

very nice article, i believe he says it all. In some ways you're already seeing this going on most western european countries. I particularly liked the disclaimer:

Disclaimer: Scott Ott decided not to add a disclaimer to this column stating that he's an America-loving conservative Christian who deplores the jihad ideology, because he didn't want to soften the impact of these words.

re: #30 bullrat

___ ___
Sharpen the sticks, cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the chimps of war.

Thanks, bullrat. LOL.

re: #16 loppyd

Were it only the left that would be effected by their staggering idiocy I wouldn't mind. But they will take everyone down with them.

re: #59 Lucius Septimius

While I agree Europe should be maintained if possible, I'm not sure:

A: It's our responsibility to prop up Europe, surely they would resent such a thing even if we could do it. Which leads to...

B: How do you make coalitions to preserve Europe (old or new) when the problem is within the countries themselves. Furthermore, those parties seen as being closely tied to the US are villified for doing so.

Being a bit of an Anglophile (lived there for a year a looong time ago) it pains me to see what is happening, but I'm not sure we can have any effect.

re: #72 wanumba

Good comments, especially about the Bhuttos

re: #66 Sponge

That asshat in the Baltimore Journal who wrote that Global Warming will seen to be a good thing when it drowns the Red States could give
Herr Olberman some competition...

Sun is out over 40 off to hit golf balls...there is hope...

re: #78 Endangered in MASS

Would that it were...would that it were.

/John Effin Kerry

That was a pretty damn powerful piece and one that couldn't be much more clear. Sadly, I don't think the EuroFools will get the hint in time.

re: #75 Athos

re: #71 wahabicorridor

I'm just wondering - if it gets really bad in Pakistan and people start leaving, where do they go? Not India. Afghanistan? Where?

UK. US. Canada.

That takes money. The educated and well off will be the first out but in terms of numbers, there will be few of them. What about the dirt farmer class? There are many more of those. Where do they go.

re: #84 wahabicorridor

re: #75 Athos

re: #71 wahabicorridor

I'm just wondering - if it gets really bad in Pakistan and people start leaving, where do they go? Not India. Afghanistan? Where?

UK. US. Canada.

That takes money. The educated and well off will be the first out but in terms of numbers, there will be few of them. What about the dirt farmer class? There are many more of those. Where do they go.

They are the fodder. The loyalty will be to Allah and their tribe. That's all they know. The clerics will constantly be reminding them that all the misfortune and unfairness they experience is because they are insufficiently devout to Allah - and only by embracing the jihad will they gain Allah's favour.

re: #57 unrealizedviewpoint

re: #48 Wino

Common Knowledge states that Bhutto was killed because she intended to clear out the terrorists/insurgents along the Afghan-Pak border.

Therefore, it is incumbent upon Musharraf to do this, to deny her killers their true objective.

Oh, you can guarantee it. With or without Pervez. It will get done. What choice is there?

(My emphasis)
Answer: Defeat, death, and the caliphate.

Powerful words.
Why is it that a humorous writer can turn serious and reach around one's heart and squeeze so tight?
All the paid-for pundits can do it same old, same old.
Now, do these words reach their intended?
Where's the e-mail or ground mail listing for EU heads of state?

re: #79 WitchDoctor

To your comments:

1) I don't think it's so much a matter of propping up as of challenging European leaders. We did that under Reagan and it worked, in part because NATO (and here keep in mind that European armies don't necessarily answer to the elected governments as they do in the US) shared a common vision. My sense in speaking with NATO officers (We get yearly briefings from them) is deeply concerned about Jihad and the spread of terrorism into Europe and not very PC about their ideas of how to deal with it. This leads to the second issue:

2) Coalitions -- there are numerous political forces at work in Europe, at multiple levels. And you are absolutely right that local/internal conflicts are one of the most serious problems affecting Europe right now (resurgent regionalism was one of the unforeseen --- or at least by some -- consequences of the EU). That said, there are other voices and the more that the alternative media can do to give a platform to those voices the better. At the moment I don't have a solution, but it would be more useful to think of options and seek opportunities to bring together like-minded folks on both sides of the pond to frame a common strategy. One possible result might just be to give politicians on both sides an opportunity to speak a different language -- the language of politics is controlled by the MSM, which is leftist and defeatist; the language we hear here is radically different and, unlike the far Left, constructive.

As to the question of whether Europe will trade security for comfort, I have a hard time seeing the broad masses bowing their necks to Sharia, and when the elites make concessions, they do so because they earnestly believe they will never have to pay up. Yes, they may be foolish and deluding themselves, but we need to be careful not to confuse foolishness and lack of imagination with a genuine willingness to submit.

Dealing with Europe is like dealing with elderly parents in a way -- they resent the help because they know they need it and are grumpy and depressed because they no longer are able to be the parent. But just because mom is a pain in the ass about taking her meds doesn't mean we're going to put her on the ice flow, tempting as that may seem at times.

Pretty simplistic, I think. I see better writing on this board all the time. If I had a personal message for European leaders, it would be:Bite me. The current European leadership is a waste of time trying to reach. These are the scum that have made the UN what it is. Might as well give shooting tips to the terrorists. And Europe isn't quite like Pakistan. I mean, come on...

Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil.

--Thomas Mann

Ott's pithy article is a distillation of an important truth. Mann's statement above condenses it further, to something close to purity.

re: #58 wahabicorridor

You know who is looking at a big problem? The UK. How many Paks are living there?

Ugh.

They are past the point of return, IMHO...

Ott asks:

do you have a strategy for negotiating with those who embrace murderous martyrdom?

Bien sur: blame the USA!

It must gall the EUnuchs that Europe is just a side dish. What the Islamists are really after is the US and Israel.

re: #36 gymnast

Ouch!
And he's live on Fox right now doing it again!

Athos- my fear is that those willing to fight in europe will only be slightly better than those they oppose.

Short-term this looks like quite a win-win victory for al-Qaeda.

1) They get rid of a major leader who was promising action against them.

2) Bhutto sympathizers take out half their anger at the Musharaf regime. Certainly not a problem for AQ!

3) Bhutto sympathizers and other opportunists riot and pillage. This is also good for Al Qaeda, for which creating chaos helps their big plan.

4) Al Qaeda strikes fear into the hearts of Westerners worldwide, once again.

Against all this, there is the possibility of an eventual backlash- Musharaff's support could grow if he promises a REAL crackdown, and it is widely supported and actually implemented in Waziristan and the other boondocks provinces on the Afghan border. But that looks like a distant possibility at the moment.

re: #76 Gekz

very nice article, i believe he says it all. In some ways you're already seeing this going on most western european countries. I particularly liked the disclaimer:

Disclaimer: Scott Ott decided not to add a disclaimer to this column stating that he's an America-loving conservative Christian who deplores the jihad ideology, because he didn't want to soften the impact of these words.

I agree, nice disclaimer.

I wonder how many in today's media have the balls to say that, let alone our politicians?

Sadly, not many.

I take it back: it's an incredibly simplistic piece. Aren't there any Europeans here who find a comparison with Pakistan just a little ridiculous? I can't believe the reflexive praise on this thread for such a thin, pedestrian article. Nonsense.

re: #94 Sharmuta

Athos- my fear is that those willing to fight in europe will only be slightly better than those they oppose.

Based on those who express now a willingness to fight - I'm afraid you're right. The question will come down to the ones who haven't woken up yet - which way will they go and will they have the fortitude to fight while not enabling the like of VB.

I HATE it when someone includes a dictionary definition, but I am sorely tempted. I will spare all the cut and paste, but the word would be :FIGHT.

When was it that we forgot what a fight IS and what you MUST do when you find yourself in one.

I don't/won't debate the Iraq war, the GWOT etc. anymore, because I keep finding myself talking with people who have never been in a fight!

Having second thoughts? Want a moment to reconsider? NOT NOW! RIGHT NOW YOU ARE IN A FIGHT! Now is the time to:... FIGHT! FIGHT TO WIN! 'FIGHT TIL YOU WIN!

What I continually run into is the idea that we are not in a fight, that we still have room for talking, that maybe we should take a breather and look at this again.

We are in a fight, and the folks we are fighting with are deadly serious. We have exactly two choices; no more, no less. FIGHT, FIGHT TO WIN, FIGHT TIL YOU WIN. Or; LOSE.

I have lost a few fights in my life, but never because I gave up. Defeat is bitter, but never nearly so much as cowardice.

No, you can't have my lunch money, or my country; not without a fight.

I enjoyed his disclaimer:

Disclaimer: Scott Ott decided not to add a disclaimer to this column stating that he's an America-loving conservative Christian who deplores the jihad ideology, because he didn't want to soften the impact of these words.

I've read many islamists who have this insane perception that any Christian who supports Israel and recognizes the danger of islam throughout the world speaks out only to bring about the end of the world.
Good work, Scott.

re: #28 funkyfantom

One might think that the Islamofascists might at least have been grateful to Benazir Bhutto for her fathers' having founded the Pakistani Islamic Atomic Bomb project, which will eventually fall into their hands if we do nothing.

You might, but Bhutto is (1) a woman, and (2) a secular communist. Muslims cannot conceive of gratitude to such a person.

This is getting ridiculous.
When europeans show restraint, they are called "cowards".
When europeans try to fight, they are called "racists".

re: #102 VonStierlitz

This is getting ridiculous.
When europeans show restraint, they are called "cowards".
When europeans try to fight, they are called "racists".

When European leaders roll over for their muslim overlords in their midst, then they are called cowards.
When European leaders blindly go after all of a people instead of lawbreakers they are called racists.
There is plenty of daylight between those two actions.
Too bad European leaders don't aim their blows so as to be winning rather than swiping at the air. (Compare the words of the Apostle Paul at 1 Corinthians 9:26)

re: #85 Athos

re: #84 wahabicorridor

re: #75 Athos

re: #71 wahabicorridor

I'm just wondering - if it gets really bad in Pakistan and people start leaving, where do they go? Not India. Afghanistan? Where?

UK. US. Canada.

That takes money. The educated and well off will be the first out but in terms of numbers, there will be few of them. What about the dirt farmer class? There are many more of those. Where do they go.

They are the fodder. The loyalty will be to Allah and their tribe. That's all they know. The clerics will constantly be reminding them that all the misfortune and unfairness they experience is because they are insufficiently devout to Allah - and only by embracing the jihad will they gain Allah's favour.

And don't forget the Jews. It's always the fault of the Jews and Israel.

/Please tell me I don't need the sarcasm tag

re: #97 Salem

Salem, I've read your past posts and don't see anything in them that would lead one to believe that you would disagree with Ott's article.
At least until you get to the disclaimer -- a pretty firm declaration of who (and Whose) Ott is.

Great article. What the West and Musharaf need to do now is to go on with elections anyway and kill as many fanatics as possible, Bhutto is a loss but not an irreplaceable one.

People forget that terrorist acts are pinpricks (9/11 was lucky for them) whose larger impact comes from sypathetic media publicity (that has to stop too).

Regrettably the ones in Europe who "get it" end up getting lumped in with fringe nuts like VB. My concern is that they may well do the sheep/lamb calculus & dicide that if they're getting hung either way...