What/who can stop Soros?

Gee, what a shock to find George Soros behind this POS.

"There are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics."

Everything that Harry Mudd tells you is a lie.

Clowns. Isn't it obvious that the study was driven entirely by political motives and an insatiable desire to surrender and appease the Islamofascists?

re: #1 MandyManners

What/who can stop Soros?

Only his assuming room temperature.

Smells a bit like Lysenko "science" being done...

The lead story on all the networks tonight, followed by apologies from all those who've spouted this gibberish the past few years.

/

re: #1 MandyManners

What/who can stop Soros?

I have a few ideas, and they are [deleted], [deleted], and [deleted].

re: #3 EC Marm

"There are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics."

And anything coming from George Soros.

re: #3 EC Marm

"There are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and Bill Clinton."

Fixed.

Charles thanks for posting this. I know it's very serious, but every time I 'imagine your suprise' I start laughing my head off.

Didn't the esteemed Lancet also publish some whoppers about the Palestinians and nasty Israeli JOOOOS? Can't recall.

George Soros ...the lefts Darth Vader.

This won't stop the leftists from citing these numbers. They never let facts get in the way of their propaganda.

BBBBBUT....BRITNEY SPEARS!

re: #1 MandyManners

What/who can stop Soros?

In fact, the funding came from the Open Society Institute created by Soros, a top Democratic donor, and from three other foundations, according to Tirman. The money was channeled through Tirman's Persian Gulf Initiative. Soros's group gave $46,000, and the Samuel Rubin Foundation gave $5,000. An anonymous donor, and another donor whose identity he does not know, provided the balance, Tirman said. The Lancet II study cost about $100,000, according to Tirman, including about $45,000 for publicity and travel. That means that nearly half of the study's funding came from an outspoken billionaire who has repeatedly criticized the Iraq campaign and who spent $30 million trying to defeat Bush in 2004.

C&P can be a real bitch.

Perhaps we should try to focus Mr. Soros' attention on other issues:

Posted on Fri, Jan. 04, 2008
Goat abuse sparks outcry
BY MARC CAPUTO
After a goat was raped and killed in a Panhandle town, animal activists, police and citizens were almost as shocked to find out that bestiality isn't a crime in Florida.
But it might be soon.

A Sunrise state senator and a St. Petersburg representative have filed legislation to make it a first-degree felony to have sex with animals or promote or advertise bestiality.

''It's true. It's sick. There needs to be a law,'' said Democratic Sen. Nan Rich, a longtime crusader for children and animal rights. ``There are 30 states that make this a crime. Florida isn't one of them.''

Florida Gov. Charlie Crist, who called the situation ''unbelievable,'' said Thursday he would sign the bill into law if it made it to his desk.

Rich said she was as shocked as she was disgusted when she learned of the rape and asphyxiation last year of a family pet goat named Meg -- who was pregnant with twins -- in the town of Mossy Head in rural Walton County.

A suspect in the case, a 48-year-old man, is serving an 11-month, 29-day jail sentence on animal-theft charges in connection with the attempted abduction of another goat in a separate case, according to Walton County Assistant State Attorney James Parker.

Parker said he couldn't prosecute the suspect in the death of Meg because DNA samples taken with a sheriff's office rape kit were inconclusive.

Parker said he asked the Florida Department of Law Enforcement last week to retest the evidence.

But even if there's a DNA match, Parker said the suspect could only be charged with misdemeanor trespassing and animal cruelty, a third-degree felony punishable by up to five years in prison.

Parker said the suspect could not be arrested for bestiality because it isn't a crime. The prosecutor added that the man is ''definitely a suspect'' because he was arrested trying to take another person's goat Feb. 3 shortly after Meg was choked to death from her collar that had been tightly held around her neck.

Parker said it was the suspect's second livestock-theft charge. Dee Thompson-Poirrier, of Okaloosa County Animal Services, said Meg the goat was once featured at a 4-H Club, and had been given to a family with small children by a neighbor who had suspected an area man -- she wouldn't say who -- of abusing the animal.

Thompson-Poirrier said she was called in to handle the case because Walton County locals believed it would best be handled by someone outside the county. She said Meg's owner heard a suspicious noise the night of the incident and only later learned that someone had set her dogs free and had left dog biscuits near the fence to lure the animals away from Meg.

While the rape and killing were shocking, Thompson-Poirrier said so was the fact that bestiality isn't even a crime here. ''I found out far more about goats and bestiality than I ever wanted,'' she said.

Rich said the prohibition against bestiality is important because studies show that those who abuse animals may also abuse children. She expects the legislation that she's sponsoring with Democratic Rep. Frank Peterman to pass during the spring lawmaking session, though they might reduce the first-degree felony charge calling for a maximum 30-year prison sentence for committing, promoting, abetting or possessing pornography of bestiality.

Otherwise, the bill is too little, too late.

''The fact that this happens is unconscionable,'' Rich said. ``And it should be illegal.''

Thompson-Poirrier says her PAWS society spent about $5,000 investigating the case and having the suspect's DNA analyzed.

The odd local publicity helped bring back about $300, when a man from nearby Crestview made a series of $10 goat T-shirts for sale.

One shirt depicts a goat saying ``Baaa Means No!''

© 2008 Miami Herald

the left will quote President Bush and say "I don't consider that a credible report."

Time to start digging into the group called Iraq Body Count as well,
another purveyor of disinformation.

Sorry to go OT so soon, but -- wtf?

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Israel has long maintained that it has the right to continue building in existing settlements to account for ill-defined "natural growth" of the existing settler population — something the "road map" explicitly bans.

Fox News is getting its content from AP, I notice. Good one, guys.

Et tu CBS?

"CBS News called the report a "new and stunning measure of the havoc the American invasion unleashed in Iraq." CNN began its report this way: "War has wiped out about 655,000 Iraqis, or more than 500 people a day, since the U.S.-led invasion, a new study reports." Within a week, the study had been featured in 25 news shows and 188 articles in U.S. newspapers and magazines, including The New York Times, The Washington Post, and the Los Angeles Times. "

re: #1 MandyManners

Garlic and the sign of the cross? :)

Seriously though - no one and no one should. He has the same right to publish/fund whatever he wants. And others have the right to call him on it.

From the article:

Democrats who had opposed Bush's Iraq campaign embraced the report. Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., for example, issued a statement saying that the "new study is a chilling and somber reminder of the unacceptably high human cost of this war.... We must not stay on the same failed course any longer."

Wow, Ted, based on this shoddy math, how many women did you abandon to drown? 5? 10? More?

Thanks, mASSachusetts, for continuing to elect this clown...and no, I don't direct this at the 35 registered Republicans of that state...

re: #20 amphibian

Sorry to go OT so soon, but -- wtf?

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Israel has long maintained that it has the right to continue building in existing settlements to account for ill-defined "natural growth" of the existing settler population — something the "road map" explicitly bans.

Fox News is getting its content from AP, I notice. Good one, guys.

Oh, headline. "Olmert Acknowledges Israel Not Living Up to 'Road Map' Peace Plan."

I wonder who funds the enemies of America more- soros or the house of saud?

I know this is just fantasy, but perhaps now whenever the left spouts some suspicious statistics, maybe the media will, you know, do their job and check it out before blindly reporting it.

/end fantasy mode

re: #17 deportman

we had a fire chief in a small town out here accost a young goat......yuck

re: #25 Sharmuta

They all travel on the same roads, leading to Stan.

re: #27 phoenixgirl

Oy vey.

Can't these people be satisfied with being the Kings of Their Castles?

WHEREDIDEVERYONE GO?

Isn't there a billionaire who can counter Soros?

Bullshit: the unviersal currency.

re: #30 buzzsawmonkey

Is that sung to the tune of the Pink Panther song?

And this matters because?

As if facts matter to the Left.

The debunking will get none of the coverage as the original story that spewed forth all over the media using the huge numbers to bash the Administration and the war in Iraq. I'm sure you'll still be able to find leftists all over the world citing to the study as authoritative even after today.

They cling to those numbers because it fits their worldview, not because they're facts.

The same can be said for any number of other issues portrayed in the media. The spin cycle is awful and the media doesn't even begin to portray them as objective.

For example, look at the current unemployment figures. The latest number shows 5%, which is an increase over the previous period. It's the highest it's been in a while, but still historically low by all measures. Yet, it's being used as the harbinger of evil and foulness in the economy even as 5% was portrayed as the best thing since sliced bread not long ago (under another President with a different political affiliation) not to mention that the Europeans would kill to have such awful unemployment figures.

Then, there's the situation in Israel, where the media focuses solely on Israel's actions, and ignores the Palestinian terrorism that is a daily occurrence. With blinders. Heh.

re: #7 ORD neighbor

Smells a bit like Lysenko "science" being done...

What, comrade, you do not like our Socialist short-tailed mice?

re: #32 MandyManners

Yes- but they're busy working.

I can't wait to see this on the evening news! oh...nevermind

One of mathematics worst inventions was the formula for extrapolation. Used properly, it has no doubt made some people millionaires. In the hands of a fool, it has probably cost many a life savings. In the hands of an agenda driven journalist, it can prove whatever they want.

re: #23 GOP Goalie

From the article:

Democrats who had opposed Bush's Iraq campaign embraced the report. Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., for example, issued a statement saying that the "new study is a chilling and somber reminder of the unacceptably high human cost of this war.... We must not stay on the same failed course any longer."

Wow, Ted, based on this shoddy math, how many women did you abandon to drown? 5? 10? More?

Thanks, mASSachusetts, for continuing to elect this clown...and no, I don't direct this at the 35 registered Republicans of that state...

35? Don't you mean 35000000? Sheesh, get your facts straight.

It's really very easy. JUST FOLLOW THE MONEY! Tells you everything you need to know.

Those 650,000 dead Iraqis deeply shocked all 354,000,000 Muslims living in America.

re: #42 buzzsawmonkey
Don't ask, don't William Tell.

Where's Dan Rather when you need a seasoned news guy to get to the bottom of this story?

This should be required reading for any college statistics class. The fact that Riyadh Lafta, the author in charge of gathering the data, would not and will not comment on his methods comments poorly on the peer review process of a supposedly well-respected journal like the Lancet. Back in school, we used to call this stuff "handy random" sampling. It usually involved asking two or three of your friends what they thought.

re: #38 Sharmuta

re: #32 MandyManners

Yes- but they're busy working.

Why isn't Soros? Oh, wait. Issuing in the Gramscian Whore of the Caliphate *is* his job.

OT and howdy all:

Iraq veteran loses custody of son

Court denies mother’s appeal

A Canajoharie woman who lost custody of her son while she was on military duty in Iraq lost her appeal and won’t be getting her son back.

I generally lurk only, but once in a while ...

2 million egg producing chickens have been killed in Iraq!

650.000 poor people from Bangladesh would love to move to Iraq.

dogs and cats fighting each other,,, mass hysteria.

statistics for the light minded.

THANK YOU CHARLES!

For shining some light in this area. The Lancet has a proud history.

It deserves better.

re: #44 Occasional Reader

Those 650,000 dead Iraqis deeply shocked all 354,000,000 Muslims living in America.

And I'll bet it had an impact on the Iowa voters and the 4,700 electoral votes they represent in November...

re: #40 EC Marm

One of mathematics worst inventions was the formula for extrapolation. Used properly, it has no doubt made some people millionaires. In the hands of a fool, it has probably cost many a life savings. In the hands of an agenda driven journalist, it can prove whatever they want.

You expect a jounalist to do the math? *snikcer*

re: #42 buzzsawmonkey

Who was that masked man?

Or, as was once famously uttered on the Lone Ranger radio show:

"I hear a white horse coming!"

Team Sent to Sudan To Probe Envoy's Slaying

No comment yet from the families of the 3 American security detail MURDERED by Abbas years ago.

I'm still waiting on Lancet Study III: The Quickening where we learn that Bush killed Eleventy-Billion Iraqis by hand using a pair of hedge clippers, and destroyed Castle Greyskull by backing into it with a carrier task force.

Soros? Isn't he funding part of Hilary's campaign, too? And the Center for Independent Media?

re: #17 deportman

Your story was a tad bit long to read but it wasn't baaaaadddd.

Sorry.

Why can't Soros support the research that confirms the positive effects of ice cream and whip cream cakes on our health? I mean, he could have made Woody Alan happy...

Next, Global Warming

Yet another "grim milestone"...

...of the left's competely delusional approach on Iraq and the security of the United States.

"We were only wrong by a factor of 10."

.

.

So, we didn't kill 6 billion Iraqis?

/and here I thought it was a just a drop in the bucket compared to the total global Muslim population of 130 trillion

IOWA CAUCUS: WOMEN AND MINORITIES HARDEST HIT.

re: #22 bianchi_roadie

re: #1 MandyManners

Garlic and the sign of the cross? :)

Seriously though - no one and no one should. He has the same right to publish/fund whatever he wants. And others have the right to call him on it.

He also has the responsibility to publish with integrity. Blatent disinformation disseminated just prior to a major election with the intent to sway said election is subversive. Calling him on it after the fact is the horse and barn door analogy. The damage is already done.

remember the stories on the casket/undertaking business?
Business was down! Lamentations all around the drive-by media.Lets hope this hasn't reached Obama so that he can make a major gaffe. The guy talks platitudes and pabulum and the dumb-dumbs lap it up. so why not some bad info.

The Lancet at one time was a highly respected publication. Sadly, like so many other sources, it has become yet another propaganda distribution outlet for leftist ideology. That it would accept such shoddy "science," and without the customary peer review, speaks volumes.

Silly right-wingers... Facts are for kids!

BUSH KILLED MILLIONS OF BROWN PEOPLE WITH HIS BARE HANDS USING HIS KRAV MAGA ZIONIST JUDO CHOP!1

re: #54 buzzsawmonkey

re: #45 Peacekeeper

re: #42 buzzsawmonkey
Don't ask, don't William Tell.

That depends on what sort of overtures are made.

Yes, but a Rossini by any other name still smells as sweet...

In the Middle East, both Sunni and Shiite Islamist groups have used the study to bolster their claims that the West is waging a war against Islam.

And like the leftists- they will not correct their statements, nor will they disregard the study. They will continue to cite these overblown numbers to incite religious fervor and recruit more young men to wage jihad.

By way of comparison, historians estimate that no more than 370,000 German civilians died as a result of the Allies bombing campaign against German towns and cities. Said bombing campaign lasted from summer of 1940 to May 1945, with literally thousands of bombers targeting German cities every day and night, with the express goal of "de-housing the enemy population".

re: #22 bianchi_roadie

re: #1 MandyManners

Garlic and the sign of the cross? :)

Seriously though - no one and no one should. He has the same right to publish/fund whatever he wants. And others have the right to call him on it.

He has the means to push things, by one means or another, in his own direction. His word carries more weight than yours or mine, _roadie, because unless I make incorrect assumptions about you, he's got more cash than both of us put together. Henry Ford was also only one man, but his position made him capable of doing much good or harm. In this case, we see that Soros was able to get past "oh, Soros is saying it, must be commie propaganda" by setting up plausible sock-puppets, something regular people can not do.

As for stopping him, I agree. This is the US, not some craphole where free speech is regulated by mobs with machetes. Our defense against this kind of stuff is LGF and similar sources of information.

The generation that went from" four dead in O-hi-O" to this

re: #49 bobthebuilder

OT and howdy all:

Iraq veteran loses custody of son

Court denies mother’s appeal

A Canajoharie woman who lost custody of her son while she was on military duty in Iraq lost her appeal and won’t be getting her son back.

I generally lurk only, but once in a while ...

Sorry Bob, but I see no harm no foul here as a parent and as a former deployed military person. Being deployed as the custodial parent does not give you the right to just let your kid move in with some tertiary relative just because it keeps them in the same city, abbrogating the rights of the other parent during a transitional time, and now that the other parent has established some routine in this child's life she needs to be a real mother and back off because staibility is what's best for the child. What was your point with this article?

re: #47 Pullus Iulius

I'd say this is less about the Lancet's peer review process and more about the PEERS. Also, "supposedly well-respected journal like the Lancet". Keyword supposedly.

re: #61 buzzsawmonkey

re: #55 Occasional Reader

Or, as was once famously uttered on the Lone Ranger radio show:

"I hear a white horse coming!"

Ah, the magic of radio.

As to the utterance itself, both sexual and saloon references come to mind.

My boys sometime tell me that they heard some lightning.

Soros involved? No way...

Is this guy doing anything illegal? Man I'd love him rotting away in prison somewhere... Of course, Hillary would probably give him a 'Marc Rich' pardon!

The Lancet was always part of the "Save Saddam" Club.

re: #24 amphibian

Oh, headline. "Olmert Acknowledges Israel Not Living Up to 'Road Map' Peace Plan."

"Olmert Acknowledges: 'I don't actually give two shits about Israel', thinks Arabs 'should own our land' - World shocked"

Why the Boim Ruling is a Pyrrhic Victory for the Islamic Charities

re: #61 buzzsawmonkey

re: #55 Occasional Reader

Or, as was once famously uttered on the Lone Ranger radio show:

"I hear a white horse coming!"

Ah, the magic of radio.

As to the utterance itself, both sexual and saloon references come to mind.

I had a real-life opportunity to paraphrase this quote a few years ago in NYC. I was walking on Lexington Ave. in middtown, at about 10 pm. I heard footsteps behind me, and looked over my shoulder. The young black guy walking behind me IMMEDIATELY declared, in a huffy voice, "this is middtown, you're not gonna get mugged here!". I calmly said, "hey, I heard footsteps and looked over my shoulder. That's it. There's no problem here." He shot back, "oh, and if I was white, you'd still have looked, right?" Me: "I don't know. What do white footsteps sound like?

655,000 dead
1,786,000 maimed
3,657,000 frightened
12,345,000 momentarily inconvienced

What do Soros and a racecar have in common?

re: #83 Occasional Reader

lol

re: #78 VegasRick

My boys sometime tell me that they heard some lightning.

Actually, that statement's defensible, since lightning causes thunder.

DES MOINES, Iowa (Reuters) - Democratic Sen. Barack Obama promised on Thursday to bring change to America if he wins his historic bid to be the first black U.S. president.

79,000 votes. WOW

Our county dog catcher got 81,000

This reminds of of Abu Ghraib, when those 300 hillybilly girls stacked them 30,000 terrorists in a naked pile.

re: #85 insanity police

What do Soros and a racecar have in common?

I'll bite.

The two men approached Richard Garfield, a Columbia University epidemiologist who signed on and put them in touch with an Iraqi scientist he knew, Riyadh Lafta, to recruit and oversee researchers who could conduct field surveys in Iraq.

Lafta had been a child-health official in Saddam Hussein's ministry of health when the ministry was trying to end the international sanctions against Iraq by asserting that many Iraqis were dying from hunger, disease, or cancer caused by spent U.S. depleted-uranium shells remaining from the 1991 Persian Gulf War.

*****

Lancet Editor Richard Horton shares this fundamental faith in scientists. He told NJ that scientists, including Lafta, can be trusted because "science is a global culture that operates by a set of norms and standards that are truly international, that do not vary by culture or religion. That's one of the beautiful aspects of science -- it unifies cultures, not divides them."

Yeah- scientists are never pushing political agendas via science *cough*global warming*cough*. Ahem.

re: #85 insanity police

What do Soros and a racecar have in common?

Both run real fast in circles and get nowhere?

re: #47 Pullus Iulius

This should be required reading for any college statistics class. The fact that Riyadh Lafta, the author in charge of gathering the data, would not and will not comment on his methods comments poorly on the peer review process of a supposedly well-respected journal like the Lancet. Back in school, we used to call this stuff "handy random" sampling. It usually involved asking two or three of your friends what they thought.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAA

re: #88 ibmkeyboard

"DES MOINES, Iowa (Reuters) - Democratic Sen. Barack Obama promised on Thursday to bring change to America if he wins his historic bid to be the first black Closet moslem U.S. president."

I fixed it for these idiots.

re: #94 paxnhymn

Someone actually called the fill-in host on Glenn Beck this morning and proposed that Obama is an Al Q plant...

re: #87 Occasional Reader

re: #78 VegasRick

My boys sometime tell me that they heard some lightning.

Actually, that statement's defensible, since lightning causes thunder.

Good thinking! Oh, and your other question, white footsteps put off a little higher octave when the heel comes off the ground, That's how ya tell.

Whether it is global warming, the internet, the Dewey Decimal System or even race cars, Al Gore invented it. I think that Soros may even be the love child Al Gore and Elizabeth Taylor. Either way, Al's a busy guy, and bound to make some mistakes.

The Lancet ...Soros money...

Deeply disturbing.

re: #98 Poitiers-Lepanto

Soros money is everywhere...

Liar, liar, Lancet's pyre!

re: #55 Occasional Reader

re: #42 buzzsawmonkey

Who was that masked man?

Or, as was once famously uttered on the Lone Ranger radio show:

"I hear a white horse coming!"

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

re: #96 VegasRick

Oh, and your other question, white footsteps put off a little higher octave when the heel comes off the ground

Hm... and here I always thought that they could tell by the way I used my walk, I'm a woman's man, no time to talk.

All the political motivations and inherent biases aside, it should have been painfully obvious to anyone upon review of the first Lancet study that it was worthless, even if those things didn't exist (and they clearly do). The 2004 survey that produced the 100K figure had an M.O.E. of something like 94K+/-, as I recall, meaning even taking it at face value, the actual number of deaths was somewhere between 6K and 192K with 90% confidence. That's not an estimate...its a dart board. If I would project that I was 90% certain that the first guy a ran into at lunch made somewhere between $6K and $192K a year, it wouldn't make me an oracle, either.

re: #76 paxnhymn

She served her country and is rewarded by losing custody of her child now that she is back, and you don't see a problem with that?

re: #102 Occasional Reader

re: #96 VegasRick

Oh, and your other question, white footsteps put off a little higher octave when the heel comes off the ground

Hm... and here I always thought that they could tell by the way I used my walk, I'm a woman's man, no time to talk.

That is hands down, the funniest thing I have read in probably the last month.

300 lb white foot steps are loud,
I cant sneak up on anybody. And could never hijack or run down a car..

North Carolina stupid criminals.

Man hijacks car and kidnaps woman for one day, then he sends her into the State Employee Credit Union to get him Cash.. DUH!?!.
Guess What?

She calls the police and they beat the shit out of him.

Bhwa.

re: #99 tfc3rid

re: #98 Poitiers-Lepanto

Soros money is everywhere...

Couldn't he just buy Iraq? ..and, send some more ice up to the Artic?

re: #46 Coquimbojoe

Where's Dan Rather when you need a seasoned news guy to get to the bottom of this story?

Where all the crap is.

re: #108 cygnus

re: #46 Coquimbojoe

Where's Dan Rather when you need a seasoned news guy to get to the bottom of this story?

Where all the crap is.

Taking a bubble bath with Soros?

The Lancet study has been lanced like a boil. Now if we could do the same with this Soros criminal.

re: #103 Thinking Mans Republican

You're assuming the talking heads actually read the report themselves.

re: #109 bengemima

re: #108 cygnus

re: #46 Coquimbojoe

Where's Dan Rather when you need a seasoned news guy to get to the bottom of this story?

Where all the crap is.

Taking a bubble bath with Soros?

Dan Rather is waiting for the ink to dry on his 'original" document6 showing that the Lancet report is "factually correct"

Great, so we'll start seeing this reflected in errata pages of MSM pubs, righto?

*crickets*

re: #111 Ben Hur

Silly me....and to think I was a journalism student once, too!

No chance to read everything, but let me add:

Some time ago I took time on my blog to look at the original study and one of the first debunkings of it. The debunking, however, involved some serious statistics, so most people couldn't follow it. I tried to explain it in simpler terms, but I noted that there were things in the original study that I couldn't evaluate given my lack of knowledge of the use of cluster studies. But even I could see a big warning flag when no one was willing to share data. That isn't science anymore; that's ideology.

re: #112 sattv4u2

re: #109 bengemima

re: #108 cygnus

re: #46 Coquimbojoe

Where's Dan Rather when you need a seasoned news guy to get to the bottom of this story?

Where all the crap is.

Taking a bubble bath with Soros?

Dan Rather is waiting for the ink to dry on his 'original" document6 showing that the Lancet report is "factually correct"

...he keeps splashing suds on it.
Actually, I think he fears Charles' pulsating images too much for that.

re: #99 tfc3rid

re: #98 Poitiers-Lepanto

Soros money is everywhere...

Yes, but I am an old guy who expects a scientific journal to STAY well above thugs and subversion...

Sigh...

re: #103 Thinking Mans Republican

Oh, and I covered that, too, in my analysis. Link posted in comment 115.

To the addle-brained left, time is relative is analogous to truth is relative.

Rosie O upped the ante to 665,000.

re: #120 scaramouche

Yeah but rosie is NEER wrong... Just like Oprah...

See, The Oprah is the new Kingmaker...

re: #120 scaramouche

Rosie O upped the ante to 665,000.

She is a complete idiot. She and Sean Penn are the same person, only Rosie weighs 3,987 lbs more then he does.

re: #102 Occasional Reader

re: #96 VegasRick

Oh, and your other question, white footsteps put off a little higher octave when the heel comes off the ground

Hm... and here I always thought that they could tell by the way I used my walk, I'm a woman's man, no time to talk.

Just stayin' alive there, eh, OR?

re: #102 Occasional Reader

re: #96 VegasRick

Oh, and your other question, white footsteps put off a little higher octave when the heel comes off the ground

Hm... and here I always thought that they could tell by the way I used my walk, I'm a woman's man, no time to talk.

Stayin Alive, Disco baby!

re: #104 bobthebuilder

re: #76 paxnhymn

She served her country and is rewarded by losing custody of her child now that she is back, and you don't see a problem with that?

She volunteered for the job. No one put a gun to her head. It is always better to have a child with a good parent, and in this case that's what the judge thought. Her patriotic service has squat to do with the best interest of the child; and quite frankly, if it's a boy he needs to be with his father anyway. If you wanna cry foul about something, look at the picture of this woman and ask if she's still in the Guard, cause if she is, she is definitely not FIT TO FIGHT. I lost joint custody of my kids during DS. They were with their mother. Not a grandmother or cousin or whatever. You need to think through the sensasionalism, my friend.

re: #64 Killian Bundy

So, we didn't kill 6 billion Iraqis?

/and here I thought it was a just a drop in the bucket compared to the total global galactic Muslim population of 130 trillion

These are the voyages of the starship Shar'ia
To exploit strange new worlds
To seek out and convert (or destroy) new life and civilizations
To boldly go where no Ummah have gone before.

re: #114 Thinking Mans Republican

re: #111 Ben Hur

Silly me....and to think I was an exceptional journalism student also. once, too!

Peabody Awarded Reporter Dan Rather graded this paper.

re: #17 deportman

Yeah, that ought to get his goat. Of course, he is all screwed up already so it might not matter.

As a matter of record, one of the first executions in MA was of an adolescent who had the stupidity to screw a cow on Sunday. Needless to say, the Puritans did not look kindly on it. The cow was hamburger and the kid was hanged by sundown. Not exactly appropriate since the kid was "mentally challenged" anyway, but that was long ago and far away. Some of the vets in some of the Scandinavian countries where bestiality is legal are reporting a high incidence of cases where harm has been done to a pet by somebody screwing it these days.

Personally, I could care less what goes on behind closed doors as long as people walk into the room of their own will and walk out with a smile and their face and it does not involve children or animals. But when it involves the latter two classes, it is an abuse of power over something or someone who is unable to make an informed consent.

It's beginning to look a little obvious here. The Lefties claim Big Oil, Bush, Rove, and Blackwater are behind all of the world's problems when in fact they have Grand Daddy Soros to take care of all of that for them. He manufactured the Lancet study to make the War on Terror look like a bad idea and he paid James Hansen at NASA to cough up some global warming statistics resulting in Global Warming hysteria.

It's call projection in the world of psychology. A defense mechanism in which one attributes to others one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions.

From now on, anytime the moonbats accuse someone of a conspiracy, we need to find out how the moonbats conspired to create the conspiracy in the first place. They are the master conspirators projecting their own way of thinking onto people who don't think like them.

re: #71 Golem Akbar

re: #54 buzzsawmonkey

re: #45 Peacekeeper

re: #42 buzzsawmonkey
Don't ask, don't William Tell.

That depends on what sort of overtures are made.

Yes, but a Rossini by any other name still smells as sweet...

Musical puns! I can't Handel it!
OK - Bach to work now.

re: #130 cygnus

re: #71 Golem Akbar

re: #54 buzzsawmonkey

re: #45 Peacekeeper

re: #42 buzzsawmonkey
Don't ask, don't William Tell.

That depends on what sort of overtures are made.

Yes, but a Rossini by any other name still smells as sweet...

Musical puns! I can't Handel it!
OK - Bach to work now.

I just love LGF !

re: #115 vxbush

No chance to read everything, but let me add:

Some time ago I took time on my blog to look at the original study and one of the first debunkings of it. The debunking, however, involved some serious statistics, so most people couldn't follow it. I tried to explain it in simpler terms, but I noted that there were things in the original study that I couldn't evaluate given my lack of knowledge of the use of cluster studies. But even I could see a big warning flag when no one was willing to share data. That isn't science anymore; that's ideology.

I tried to do the same thing with the global warming data from the UN. The only problem was that I couldn't find the actual data behind the surveys. I got lots of PDF summaries of data but no hard data. This type of information should be open to the public so we can all see for ourselves where they are getting the data.

#120 scaramouche 1/04/08 9:21:05 am reply quote report 0

Rosie O upped the ante to tipped the scale at 665,000.

Fixed!

re: #132 gman

Even scientists can't get the data, either for global warming or for the Lancet study. It's pretty lame, I tell you that. The Mann Hockey stick was notorious for not releasing data. I agree we should have the data so that those of us with the ability to analyze the data are able to.

re: #125 paxnhymn
This is what I am hearing from you;

She's fat so she should lose the kid. (fat soldiers are also bad soldiers)

As far as protecting our country and preserving democracy: cmon, who even buys that line of bull anymore?

That about right?
//DS ... Yea, sure you did.

re: #134 vxbush

re: #132 gman

Even scientists can't get the data, either for global warming or for the Lancet study. It's pretty lame, I tell you that. The Mann Hockey stick was notorious for not releasing data. I agree we should have the data so that those of us with the ability to analyze the data are able to.

I would love to go through the data but where is it? It reminds me of the cult- like church I attended when I was a kid. You couldn't ask questions because "that just wasn't done." Whenever I was given that inane answer all I could think was "Why the f*ck can't I ask any questions if this is so f*cking important?"

You have to remember that in UK nearly all doctors work for the state (NHS) and the lowest of them (GP's) get £100,000 a year (US$200,000) for doing very little work and treating their patients likes scum. Anyone who has ever had any dealings with the NHS fears it like the plague. If you are ever in UK and get sick do whatever you can to get on a plane ANYWHERE than get admitted to an NHS hospital where you will surely be infected with MRSA or worse.

As such UK doctors are one solid Labour block vote. They have no intention of biting the state hand that feeds then and they are so powerful whilst Thatcher broke the mining unions she had no hope against the doctors.

The Lancelot is their house journal and should be read in that light.

The ingrate Soros does all he can to undermine American exceptionalism -- thank God our troops battled these terrorist murderers and crushed them into the ground...the whole Lancet study was meant to further undermine support for the war, bringing about withdrawal of US troops, and the subsequent disaster would be blamed on the US for years, making us an untrustworthy force for bringing about Middle-East peace/change.

re: #135 BobTheBuilder

ask anyone;

44th med...896th Med det (EPW)....cleared the breach at 31 with the AA..then went to Falaka Island to mop up. In support of KERO with Gen. Kelly...u ever been to Kuwait City asshole? Also, if she's outta shape she needs to be outta the Guard, that's the contract. The two have nothing to do with each other. She has no right to wrap herself in the flag and say she's a vet so now it's ok to rip the kid outta stability yet again. She needs to be bigger than that....

no wonder you're a lurker. Stay that way till you know what the fuck is coming outta that mess you call a brain.

Fyi, i did the math a little bit back and figured out that for the lancet study to be true, 244 innocent iraqis would have to die every single day. if that number doesn't immediately strike you as ludicrous, that so many deaths would be unreported, than you have drank the koolaid and there is no hope for you.

Here's the dirty little secret about the 9-11 troof movement. it is fed by the iraqi conspiracy theories, too. the lie that bush lied to get us into iraq feeds the lie that 9-11 was an inside job. this 650,000 myth is of a piece with all of that, because it requires us to believe that something so mass could occur without our knowledge. and its on par with holocaust denial, too.

re: #139 paxnhymn

It's easy to make claims on the intertubes. I doubt your claim of service and don't care how many sock puppets can back you up, so what?

You picked an argument over what was posited as a link of interest. I still maintain that the lack of support of returning soldiers is problematic, and interesting as far as the civics of the situation.

I don't expect you to actually grasp any of the nuances I just described, as you have made your level of intelligence apparent by your discourse.

re: #120 scaramouche

Silly moonbat made a mistake. I believe she meant 6,784,594 BAZILLION GAZILLION TRILLION INFINITY.

re: #141 bobthebuilder

first, it might be a good idea to think before you post a link as I have been in exactly the same situation and inevitably did what was right for the children. second, crass language is not a sign of inferiority, just incredulity at your statements. Thirdly, would you like to sample my prior military training?

re: #134 vxbush

I loved the lastest "climate change" proclamations: the science IS CONCLUSIVE.

Oh really?

Its the vast left wing conspiracy.

I believe the The Lancet would have gathered a few votes if it were part of Charles' Fiskie list.

SOROS AND THE LEFT-WING LIE MACHINE.

re: #9 Honorary Yooper

re: #1 MandyManners

What/who can stop Soros?

I have a few ideas, and they are [deleted], [deleted], and [deleted].

I'd add [deleted]-- but that's a bit much.

Science!
Lies

Soros is not the only person associated with the Lancet studies who had one eye on the data and the other on the U.S. political calendar. In 2004, Roberts conceded that he opposed the Iraq invasion from the outset, and -- in a much more troubling admission -- said that he had e-mailed the first study to The Lancet on September 30, 2004, "under the condition that it come out before the election." Burnham admitted that he set the same condition for Lancet II. "We wanted to get the survey out before the election, if at all possible," he said.

Who out there still cites this "study" from the "reputable" Lancet? And whi is it necessary to add the qualifier "reputable" unless you know they mught be called on their extreme extrapolations?

re: #11 Peacekeeper

re: #3 EC Marm

"There are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and Bill Clinton."

Fixed.

Updated: "There are four types of lies - lies, damn lies, Bill Clinton, and Hillary Rodham Clinton."

Shocker!
Ideology of relativism made even truth "relative". Only one value in primitive regressive view is constant - are you with us, or agains us? Everything else can be derived from these 2.

What a surprise. Proves once again that the only thing a lancet is good for is taking a blood sample at the doctor's office.

Soros, being foreign-born can't be president.
So the question is, WHO is the candidate that Soros is supporting - the one who has the most to gain by making President Bush and his administration look bad?

Should make that a compound singular/plural - Yahoo! News calls the candidate "Bill and Hillary."

The Clintons: Co-Presidentially Un-Constitutional.

They do not care WHAT laws or Constitution or which institutions or WHO they mangle and shred on their path to power.

re: #141 bobthebuilder

would you like to sample my prior military training?

So rather than addressing the point of my original post, (that the lack of support of returning soldiers is problematic) you resort to internet tough guy.

Yea that's convincing. And foolish as you have absolutely no idea of what training I may or may not have were you to offer up your meager "sampling".

Why am I wasting my time with you?

Having read the article, I would say that while it raises very damning questions about the Lancet study, "Debunked for Good" may be a bit of an overstatement. But it's definitely not looking good for thoes defending the study.

My favorite quote from the article:

In the Middle East, both Sunni and Shiite Islamist groups have used the study to bolster their claims that the West is waging a war against Islam. In an October 30, 2007, debate on Al Jazeera, for example, an Egyptian cleric, Sheik Ibrahim al-Khouli, slammed a Syrian author's criticism of fundamentalist Islam. The United States and Europe had "fought in Iraq and destroyed it," he said. They "killed one and a half million people ... [and] killed a million Iraqi children during the [1990s sanctions] siege; left traces of enriched uranium from the weapons that were used [in 1991]; and destroyed the environment for the next 35 billion years, according to American estimates."

35 billion years! Wow! This guy should seek employment with The Lancet.

some folks just gotta have a mule to whip.

I hate it when scientific / professional journals get hijacked for political purposes.

About 2 or 3 years ago, the professional journal of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineeers, the IEEE spectrum, got hijacked by an editor, William Sweet, who is a Global Warming True Believer. Now, instead of reading the usual fare for engineers, we get treated to things like - I kid you not - his breathless movie review of "An Inconvienient Truth". Every issue has at least one major article with some dubious tie-in to global warming like how LED lighting manufacturers are using carbon reduction as a selling point.

What bugs me the most is that this guy is more or less siphoning funds from the IEEE to run his own private propaganda mill, and believe me, it is not exactly cheap to keep up an IEEE membership.

re: #155 bobthebuilder

Hi, there are a bunch of people talking about the Lancet study here, would you like to join them?

Looks like William is the author of a book

I wonder if he knows Soros too?

I am shocked that there is gambling at Rick's.

re: #155 bobthebuilder
your not. you're posting the rhetorical "tuck tail and run" question before you wisk away under continued anonimity. As far as your training, I need not know, only what I know.That is sufficient.

Cowardice is always easy.

re: #159 Merovign

Yea, I'm really sorry for the threadjack.
Many apologies for my part in it to the group.

Lancet fudging the numbers is indeed deplorable, and in the end such propagandizing of data only hurts the credibility of those who use the inaccurate numbers to argue policy.
At least it should.
Watch and see though, for the erroneous numbers to be used anyway by the left and MSM, and remain unquestioned regardless of the proven factual error.

re: #163 bobthebuilder

Graciously done, thanks!

re: #158 Noah's Arrrgh

I hate it when scientific / professional journals get hijacked for political purposes.

About 2 or 3 years ago, the professional journal of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineeers, the IEEE spectrum, got hijacked by an editor, William Sweet, who is a Global Warming True Believer. Now, instead of reading the usual fare for engineers, we get treated to things like - I kid you not - his breathless movie review of "An Inconvienient Truth". Every issue has at least one major article with some dubious tie-in to global warming like how LED lighting manufacturers are using carbon reduction as a selling point.

What bugs me the most is that this guy is more or less siphoning funds from the IEEE to run his own private propaganda mill, and believe me, it is not exactly cheap to keep up an IEEE membership.

Sorry, I meant my last comment for you. Google "William Sweet" and you get all sorts of strange links. He's heavily involved in the Global Warming paranoia.

re: #165 gman

Fanatics are actually hard to compete with, because they single-mindedly pursue their goals by any means, honest or dishonest, and always, always seek positions of power.

Luckily, many fanatics are borderline insane, and can't keep up the act. Sadly, too many can keep up the act and get themselves into positions of power, petty or great, from which they can implement their agenda.

re: #166 Merovign

re: #165 gman

Fanatics are actually hard to compete with, because they single-mindedly pursue their goals by any means, honest or dishonest, and always, always seek positions of power.

Luckily, many fanatics are borderline insane, and can't keep up the act. Sadly, too many can keep up the act and get themselves into positions of power, petty or great, from which they can implement their agenda.

Rather reminiscent of the AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming) "Consensus".
Where regardless of how many Scientists hold a dissenting view, the AGW hypothesis is still reported as a "Consensus" and factual conclusion.

I like Daniel Pipes' discussion on conspiracists in his book Conspiracy. Mr. Pipes explains that Hitler "conspired his way to the top." He borrowed ideas from the Jesuits, freemasons, and the Protocols in the creation of his Nazi state. For example, the emphasis on rituals and secrecy attributed to Jews via the Protocols were actually put into practice by Hitler in the creation of the Nazi state. In the Protocols it states that "Everything that benefits the Jewish People is morally right and sacred." One of the Nazi maxims was "Right is what is good for the German people." Now, given this framework it would make sense to look for conspiracies among the people who know conspiracies best: Moonbats.

re: #166 Merovign
Fanatics are actually hard to compete with, because they single-mindedly pursue their goals by any means, honest or dishonest, and always, always seek positions of power.

That's it. It's another example of what Antonio Gramsci called "The long march through the institutions."

Today, the journal's editor tacitly concedes discomfort with the Iraqi death estimates. "Anything [the authors] can do to strengthen the credibility of the Lancet paper," Horton told NJ, "would be very welcome." If clear evidence of misconduct is presented to The Lancet, "we would be happy to go ask the authors and the institution for an official inquiry, and we would then abide by the conclusion of that inquiry."

In the face of remarkable claims, it is not the challenger that must provide "clear evidence of misconduct" it is the claimant that must prove clearly that no misconduct occurred.

I may wish to claim that Bigfoot causes global warming, but it is my responsibility to prove it; debunking my claim is not the responsibility of skeptics.

If "the journal's editor" is not clear on this simple fact, I don't see how anything with the Lancet name on it can be worth the paper it's printed on.

The Long March Through the Institutions ...

Posed the question to self the other day, "How hard is it to screw up a chocolate chip cookie?" Likewise, "How hard is it to screw up a simple weather reporting channel?"

How to produce a truly disgusting Chocolate Chip cookie: A VEGAN chocolate chip cookie
Unedible - but the wrapper assures the purchaser that it's a morally superior product.

How to evicerate the usefulness of the Weather Channel: Replace a meteorological head with a comparative religion head who is in thrall to "Global Warming," which has so many inconvenient contradictions it is forced to morph into "Climate Change." Forecasting goes down the tubes, travelers stuck all over, but it's morally superior. Ratings slump. Evidently, they have such deep pockets that they can forgo profits.

re: #171 wanumba

... Ratings slump. Evidently, they have such deep pockets that they can forgo profits.

Can you say "RadioFreeAmerica"?

Losses on top of losses and yet they are still around, (and still using the Lancet's Faux-Findings I dare say). I like the "comparative religion" moniker for the Global/Climate/Warming/Change zealots. It fits well.

One of the sad results of the Lancet publication is that there will be a loss of respect for scientific reporting. A key component of all scientific research...and reporting to the peer review process...is the ability for others to review procedures and repeat the processes. If others determine the same results the peer review gains credibility. A basic tenet of scientific review is the availability of data for just this purpose.
The Lancet has lost much with the publication of this story that cannot be verified through the scientific re-evaluation of the data.
Other scientific journals would do well to recognize what has happened here and to take steps to ensure that the editorial boards do not let this happen to their respected journals.

There is always some politics in scientific research. When the "research" is done with just the politics in mind it is no longer valid science.

Soros is looking kinda tired and ill these days

Maybe this will be Americas lucky year?

"War has wiped out about 655,000 Iraqis, or more than 500 people a day, since the U.S.-led invasion, a new study reports." --CBS News

Doesn't CNN, New York Times, The Washington Post, and the Los Angeles Times mean the "current Iraq War?" Not war in general wipes out Iraqis each day.

No wonder no one today takes these rags and dumbvision news groups seriously – they have a hard time communicating.

The article was very thorough, but there is another problem they didn't mention: Iraqi compensations.

Even if the surveyors tried to be as honest as possible (and I am skeptical of that), the average Iraqi simply can't understand fully what the Lancet is, or why a bunch of westerners would care how many of their family members were killed. The only thing they know for sure is that the US and other Western agencies often pay thousands of $$ in compensation to the families of victims killed by the coalition. Since it doesn't cost them anything to claim a death in the family, but the potential reward is enormous, it's easy to see how that could skew the data. Even if this only happened a few times, the sample size is small enough to throw the whole thing out of whack.

Silent lurker here, ready to join the fray...
Everyone should ask these simple questions when the media hit them with "stunning" statistics : 1. Do the stats make sense; are they reasonable? 2. Do the stats fit (relate) with other "like" statistics? 3. Are the stats reproducible? 4. Was the population surveyed sufficient in size to support the dramatic conclusions. This NJ article illustrates these points perfectly. Trust your gut if you don't have the skills to dig deep. It's the first thing I teach my post-grad researchers.

What this episode has taught me, however, is to add a question about timing. Thanks Charles.

Beyond the possible political bias (conscious or unconscious), the Lancet's editors and peer-reviewers made a fundamental error when they gave a pass to the two Lancet reports because they knew the researchers, authors, surveyors, whoever, and they were "good guys." My kids would turn up their noses and snarkily retort, "Dude!" Sadly, this mindset plagues professional publishing and the sciences. I teach my students not to trust names, any names. Trust facts. If you can't get the facts, you don't have the science.

My advice to Lancet: Consider BLIND peer-review to save your integrity and then get down to the business of science before folks like me have to advise readers to RUN AWAY.

What do we think the real number of civilian deaths were? I've heard as low as 5 or 6 since the invasion on some blogs. Has LGF done any kind of formal study to rebut claims that the U.S./U.K. invasion of Iraq has killed some civilians?

re: #178 justiceforall

What do we think the real number of civilian deaths were? I've heard as low as 5 or 6 since the invasion on some blogs. Has LGF done any kind of formal study to rebut claims that the U.S./U.K. invasion of Iraq has killed some civilians?

Heck, I've heard recently from moonbats that the number is closer to a million. Go with that number. You'll be a hit at cocktail parties.

Whoa! The left LIES to advance their agenda?

*boggles*

re: #178 justiceforall

What do we think the real number of civilian deaths were? I've heard as low as 5 or 6 since the invasion on some blogs. Has LGF done any kind of formal study to rebut claims that the U.S./U.K. invasion of Iraq has killed some civilians?

It's LGF's job to conduct studys? Also you seriously miss a point here-no one is saying some civilians were not killed by our actions there. They are saying that the claim of 650k is a blatant fabrication. Try to keep up moonbat.

Ok, who's got the moonbatacide?

the U.S./U.K. invasion of Iraq has killed some civilians?

What the hell does that even mean?

Turn on the news, moron.

The "invasion" hasnt killed too many civilians, no.

Terrorists, most of them muslim, on the other hand, have. Alot of them.

Terrorists, most ALL of them muslim, on the other hand, have. Alot of them.

Fixed

Is there some rule that LLLs have to have some pretentious self congratulatory name? Justice for all? Yeah, only LLLs want that. (roll eyes)

I saw a LLL driving a luxury car the with a plate that said "Anti War". Ooooo, that's a daring political stance to take. Narcissism thy name is liberal.

re: #184 Hard Right

Is there some rule that LLLs have to have some pretentious self congratulatory name? Justice for all? Yeah, only LLLs want that. (roll eyes)

I saw a LLL driving a luxury car the with a plate that said "Anti War". Ooooo, that's a daring political stance to take. Narcissism thy name is liberal.

That's like the Lexus SUV parked at an expensive restaurant with a bumper sticker that said "Social Justice is a Value" and the owner stiffed the waiter/waitress because their martini wasn't done right.

re: #184 Hard Right

Is there some rule that LLLs have to have some pretentious self congratulatory name? Justice for all? Yeah, only LLLs want that. (roll eyes)

I saw a LLL driving a luxury car the with a plate that said "Anti War". Ooooo, that's a daring political stance to take. Narcissism thy name is liberal.

Tammy Bruce calls them Malignant Narcissists or MalNar's for short.

The liberal philosophy is fundamentally pessimistic and condescending because it is based on the fact that people don't have the smarts to take care of themselves. Of course, the liberals spout this nonsense while wearing their Birkenstocks and sipping on super- sized lattes.

As somebody who once designed and performed a stratified cluster sample survey, let me tell you it is more of an art than a science. In particular it heavily relies on they hypothesis that the population statistics are uniform across the population being surveyed. Hardly the case in a place like Iraq. The Lancet survey is not even worth using as toilet paper. It would leave more shit on your ass than it would wipe off.

Quite frankly these guys are statistical hacks and anyone who peer reviewed that paper didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it came to survey sampling.

re: #165 gman

Now you know why I told the IEEE to jam it sideways a while ago. Such articles are appropriate in the Geophysical Journal of the American Geophysical Union or the journal of the American Meteorological Society, but not in the IEEE. [And yes, at times in my life I was a member of those two organizations also.]

DOCTORS! GGRRR

Do not even get me started..

They are the original " I know best, what's best for you, so I should make the rules" folks.

"Respected" medical journals?

Anyone even remotely pro 2A knows that the New England Journal of Medicine has released numerous reports with handgun statistics that are even more laughable than this. The Lancet and its well timed "studies" have been instrumental in disarming the British public. "Reports" and "Studies" like these are the very foundation of the nanny state. "..it's been proved by a study in the Lancet! It's for your own good! Now stop bothering your betters while we are deciding what to allow you to do...or not".

Did you know that it is common practice, advocated by the AMA, for Pediatricians to ask your children if you own a gun? Ask your child after their next Dr.'s visit what they talked about...the answers will most likely shock you. If you own a firearm is only the tip of the iceberg...and this is sanctioned/encouraged by the AMA.

Soros may well have funded this load of BS, but don't think for a moment that he had any difficulty doing it. These once respected journals seem eager to advance any Leftist scheme.

Dig a bit and you will find an AMAZING amount of "studies" from "respectable" medical journals that provide "proof' of ills that libs feel need regulating........"for your own good! for the children!"