Everybody must get stoned.

Yes Jesus said that. Are you saying that you have no sin?

If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Apologies to Bob Dylan.

re: #3 jester6

Booo!

Not sure that I follow that Imam dude's logic when,
trying to justify stoning, he alluded to Jesus' saying
'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone...'. Ya
think maybe he misses the point?

re: #5 datadude

Not sure that I follow that Imam dude's logic when,
trying to justify stoning, he alluded to Jesus' saying
'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone...'. Ya
think maybe he misses the point?

Yea. Just a bit. Morons in a moronic death cult.

How fitting that a Man who crawled out from under a rock , is in favor or stoning

Cuckoo ...cuckoo ...cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

re: #6 VegasRick
Hey, bro. You live here in Vegas?

re: #9 datadude

re: #6 VegasRick
Hey, bro. You live here in Vegas?

Do! You too?

re: #10 VegasRick

Yeah buddy! Lovin' this weather, eh?

I'm depressed that a modern female, and a beautiful one at that (fatwa in 5-4-3..) is so indoctrinated...

Where's NOW on this? Oh, that's right - we can't blame it on Bush...

that's not karen armstrong.

It's Islam, stupid.

re: #10 VegasRick

re: #11 datadude

Hey you two...what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas!

The ignorant girl at the beginning says she's not a scholar, so she can't say what stoning someone that way is right or wrong. Un-huh. Violent murderous freaks = the religion of peace.

re: #15 DesertSage

D'OH! Sorry 'bout that...forgot the rule. :)

"I've studied many religions, in school and on my own..."

Wow, those are pretty awesome credentials on which to form opinions on stoning. More... more...

Ugh. Stone good.
- caveman/muhammedan

Wow what a lovely group.

Quick synopsis

A. Berdiere = We don't know what she did or how old this tape is.

K. Armstring = Don't worry, it's only practiced by1% of the population, extremely rare.

S. Jarrah = Stoning was sanctioned by G_d so it must by OK, plus, it's a quite effective preventive measure against offenders.

Commentator: Will you condemn this?

Group: No, because we don't know the context for this punishment. She probably had it coming since to stone one you had to had 4 credible witnesses.

Basically move along, nothing to see here.

Incredible!

re: #18 WindHorse

Haa! I was thinkin' the same thing when she said that.
Reply: "Um, well, I've studied many people who say that
they've studied religion, and..."

The "Ten Commandments" do not include the punishment of stoning. The Pentateuch or Torah (c. 1200 BC) has this punishment*. Later Christianity and Judaism while still condemning adultery modify this punishment.

*_{some scholars say that parts of the Torah may have been written as late as 500 BC}

re: #11 datadude

Loving it is right! High 60, Low 40. Vegas is the best city (I love San Diego as well) in the country (IMHO).

re: #15 DesertSage

re: #10 VegasRick

re: #11 datadude

Hey you two...what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas!

We get a pass here (LGF) cause we know that you guys and gals won't tell anybody else!

CAIR is numero uno on the list of subversive, foreign-funded, pro-shari'a organizations operating in the US. The fact that they are allowed to operate at all is outrageous. The fact that they are continued to be billed by the MSM, universities and colleges, parts of the government and non-Muslim dialogue-desperate Christian and Jewish organizations as a Muslim civil rights organization is even more outrageous. CAIR works to convince Muslims that they should not assimilate in any way and that they should work to fundamentally change and subvert Western values. They also work just as hard to convince non-Muslims that Muslims just want to assimilate and that Islamophobia is so rampant that Muslims in the US are on the verge of a new "holocaust." They are so transparent that a first-grader could see through them. Yet we allow them to continue in their shari'a-promoting, Islamic supermacist jihad without challenging them, much less shutting them down and making them disperse and join or form other acronym organizations. Are we that weak and blind? CAIR *is* the enemy, right here, right now and right in your face.

re: #24 VegasRick
Roger that! Now, if we could only have SD's year-round
weather, coupled with our taxes...buddy I'd move to wherever
that is for the rest of my life. For now, I'm stayin' put
right here in "the city that TRULY never sleeps".

4 witnesses?

pervs.

CAIR - hah... there are no civil rights in islam.

_{^{They'll stone you when you're trying to be so good
They'll stone you just like they said they would
They'll stone you when you're trying to go home
They'll stone you when you're there all alone
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned}}

_{^{They'll stone you when you're walking on the street
They'll stone you when you're trying to keep your seat
They'll stone you when your walking on the floor
They'll stone you when your walking to the door
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned}}

_{^{They'll stone you when you're at the breakfast table
They'll stone you when you are young and able
They'll stone you when you're trying to make a buck
They'll stone you and then they'll say good luck
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned}}

_{^{Well They'll stone you and say that it's the end
They'll stone you and then they'll come back again
They'll stone you when you're riding in your car
They'll stone you when you're playing you guitar
Yes But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned
Alright}}

_{^{Well They'll stone you when you are all alone
They'll stone you when you are walking home
They'll stone you and then say they're all brave
They'll stone you when you're send down in your grave
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned}}

So, according to these people, any woman stoned to death for adultery committed adultery and had 4 witnesses to the act. First they were trying to play down the fact that stoning occurs, but what they were really saying is that stoning is just and the woman deserved it since there were 4 witnesses.

Talk about a target rich environment.

Where does one begin to discuss the empty headed answers given by the women on the panel? They seem to be oblivious to the fact that the man sitting there would stone them in a heart beat and most likely can barely contain his contempt that an uncovered women is at the same table.

How the hell can the moderator sit there and listen to this discussion like they were discussing new car models?

No wonder the western civilization is struggling

Where are all the moderate Muslims?

re: #33 Walkar

What's a 'moderate muslim'?

a show of hands please... who here has had 4 witnesses to anything done in the bedroom...

please consider your answer CAIRfully

The only thing not depressign about this is that it is traveling on the internet so many people can see for themselves.

Kaern Armstong is the most contemptable because she can say whatever she wants with no chance that she will ever have to be subject to what she excuses for millions of other girls and women.

re: #21 tripster

Wow what a lovely group.

Quick synopsis

A. Berdiere = We don't know what she did or how old this tape is.

K. Armstring = Don't worry, it's only practiced by1% of the population, extremely rare.

S. Jarrah = Stoning was sanctioned by G_d so it must by OK, plus, it's a quite effective preventive measure against offenders.

Commentator: Will you condemn this?

Group: No, because we don't know the context for this punishment. She probably had it coming since to stone one you had to had 4 credible witnesses.

Basically move along, nothing to see here.

Incredible!

And I'm quite sure I hear laughter when he's saying that - I hope it's sarcastic laughter but I can't imagine anybody laughing about it.

Ahmed,

Michael Savage is about to stone you in court.

Have a nice day,

Shug

..."and the punishment in the ten commandments for adultery is stoning..."

WTF!?!?

I jumped into the thread without watching the video, went back and started watching, and am just...just...words escape me.

That when and where thing was the most pathetic.

Lets see, its a video, so maybe it was filmed in 1865?

Codified male adolescent pathology. Thats what the Sharia is.

re: #33 Walkar

Where are all the moderate Muslims?

One is working at your local 7-11 and the other is hiding out because there is a fatwa on his head.

This is Islam. Evasion, twisting the truth, and outright lying.

It's in the Koran.

Perhaps if the person had been punished with panties on the head instead of by stoning he could have condemned it

re: #34 datadude

re: #33 Walkar

What's a 'moderate muslim'?

Someone like Wafa Sultan, Waled Shoebat, Ali Hirsi Ali. All the others look to be your typical muslim. At least they act that way since they sure aren't out, and about condemning the acts of their fellow believers!

re: #43 Shug

Perhaps if the person had been punished with panties on the head instead of by stoning he could have condemned it

Fantastic comparison!

re: #34 datadude

re: #33 Walkar

What's a 'moderate muslim'?

Apparently, they make up 90% of the Muslim population. These fabled beings are rumored to have the power to tolerate other cultures and condemn their own religion's offenses against humanity.

re: #46 Walkar
Copy. But do they call themselves 'moderate', or
something else?

re: #31 donkeybites
I don't agree with you on that. I think what they were saying is that they don't believe it happens as much because it takes 4 witnesses.
Not justifying--far from it. But that's what I understood from the ijits on the video.
I'm still outraged and disgusted.

re: #31 donkeybites

So, according to these people, any woman stoned to death for adultery committed adultery and had 4 witnesses to the act. First they were trying to play down the fact that stoning occurs, but what they were really saying is that stoning is just and the woman deserved it since there were 4 witnesses.

My guess is the the witnesses were participants... No punishment there.

re: #32 vrwc007

How the hell can the moderator sit there and listen to this discussion like they were discussing new car models?

I think it's great that the moderator does his job. His job is to let a discussion proceed, not to debate. Let the bastards talk. We see them.

If you think that was insane, you should witness the stonings that go on in the lounge.

re: #46 Walkar

re: #34 datadude

re: #33 Walkar

What's a 'moderate muslim'?

Apparently, they make up 90% of the Muslim population. These fabled beings are rumored to have the power to tolerate other cultures and condemn their own religion's offenses against humanity.

I say BS to the 90% number that these people throw out at us. Why do we not hear condemning of the 10% from them? Are they scared? If they love their religion as much as they say why don't they do something about the 10%ers?

One of the CAIR-tards says something like:

It's not like I'm going to commit adultery in front of 4 witnesses! That's only done by porn stars!
...
It's almost impossible to prove.

Eh... What about when a woman is raped by multiply men?

CAIRtards make me sick.

...and sometimes lashes too!

re: #50 MandyManners

re: #32 vrwc007

How the hell can the moderator sit there and listen to this discussion like they were discussing new car models?

I think it's great that the moderator does his job. His job is to let a discussion proceed, not to debate. Let the bastards talk. We see them.

Good point. Objectivity. So lacking in the media.

The very fact we are even watching a taped discussion related to the subject on the status of stoning in this day and age is the problem.

Humanity has fought two world wars, and has come very close to the brink of self destruction.

Really, contemplate what you are seeing.

A round table discussion, as if they are having an intellectual exchange over physics or something.

Representation that is not truly pro-stoning, but a posture of defense that is hesitant to question this action because they refer to a book.

The actual attempt in the first place, to bring a culture to the discussion table, as if they are really open to possibly putting this on the table as a way to the current century.

If you have to make deals, like a barter system for an invitation to the 21st century, you might as well forget it. If they have not figured out that stoning is wrong, moreover, the females of the culture have not stepped in to stop this, I am not hopeful it will see the light of day any time soon.

Honestly - getting these people to condemn barbarism is like trying to pin a jello to a raindrop.

The interviewer should prepare for shit like this and anticipate the excuses they will come up with.

If it was me doing the the interview I would say:

"Even though barbaric punishments do appear in the bible, Jews & Christians would be appalled at the use of such punishments in this day and age. Are you, as a Muslim, prepared to condemn the use of 7th Century Islamic law in this day and age - specifically amputations and stonings?"

re: #50 MandyManners
Amen mandy Manners!

re: #33 Walkar

Where are all the moderate Muslims?

In Candy Land, playing with the unicorns.

re: #56 formercorpsman

The very fact we are even watching a taped discussion related to the subject on the status of stoning in this day and age is the problem.

Humanity has fought two world wars, and has come very close to the brink of self destruction.

Really, contemplate what you are seeing.

A round table discussion, as if they are having an intellectual exchange over physics or something.

Representation that is not truly pro-stoning, but a posture of defense that is hesitant to question this action because they refer to a book.

The actual attempt in the first place, to bring a culture to the discussion table, as if they are really open to possibly putting this on the table as a way to the current century.

If you have to make deals, like a barter system for an invitation to the 21st century, you might as well forget it. If they have not figured out that stoning is wrong, moreover, the females of the culture have not stepped in to stop this, I am not hopeful it will see the light of day any time soon.

Nail, meet hammer. Dead on Sir!

Leviticus

Ok 1st: These propagandists and professional spinners are hillarious if they weren't so scary good at what they are paid big bucks to do.

So Islam still does stoning?...well blame everyone else for the same thing...even if they no longer practice it.

That being said: Wrath actually advocates stoning for Adultery. (In a world where divorce is so easy, there is NO REASON to cheat!)

re: #3 jester6

Apologies to Bob Dylan.

Maybe Allah got the idea from Dylan. A little time travel isn't impossible for the all-powerful all-seeing all-knowing One.

the fat ugly guy makes a comment about "Stoning has historically blah-blah-blah... in all monotheistic religions...blah-blah-blah"

The sad part is, for you foo', that islam is still practicing this. everyone else evolved out of the 7th century a couple of hundred years ago...

(doing the math here... hang on...)

re: #51 So?

What? More information please!

"Didn't Jesus say..."

Please, oh please, come 'round my area, would you?

re: #44 afdad

re: #34 datadude

re: #33 Walkar

What's a 'moderate muslim'?

Someone like Wafa Sultan, Waled Shoebat, Ali Hirsi Ali. All the others look to be your typical muslim. At least they act that way since they sure aren't out, and about condemning the acts of their fellow believers!

I'm pretty sure all three of those are examples of ex-Muslims, not moderate Muslims.

I'm surprised they didn't mention the kind of stones allowed in stonings, their average weight and size and whether you can throw them with your left or right arm.

/left or right arm...aha...betya didn't think of that one

re: #50 MandyManners

I think it's great that the moderator does his job. His job is to let a discussion proceed, not to debate. Let the bastards talk. We see them.

No need to hide behind slogans of deceit, claiming that you're a "religion of peace!" We just don't believe you! We can clearly see through, the madness that you're feedin' your people!

Ha, ha!

It's Open Season!

re: #66 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm sitting here, thinking, "Charles, how about a new thread, a lighter thread, a FNDT?" and realized what a cop out that is.

Yes, this is ugly. This is horrible. But it's real. It happens. It needs to be seen, and it needs to be talked about. Screw a bunch of buzz kill, expose this unspeakable conduct for what it is.

The words are still escaping me. My western, tolerant, American mind just can't get around how this kind of conduct is (1) acceptable, and (2) twisted into being believed to be condoned by "religion"

re: #65 beachkatie

re: #51 So?

What? More information please!

Well, you'll just have come hang out in the lounge sometime. It's quite the experience.

Conclusion: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
~ f*cktard CAIR discussion group

/apologies to that great humanitarian actor whose name escapes me at the moment
/

I have the two sisters, and the little girl Aqsa on my mind after watching that.

Perhaps watching this has fouled my mood, but I would love 120 seconds on a wrestling mat with that fat head.

these crazy ass bastards. the men get to marry 2-3-4 wives but are not adulters, bu the women get the stones thrown at them... who are they kidding anyways? and the stupid women there tryingto justify it all. why does no one bring up all these wives?

re: #73 tripster

Conclusion: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
~ f*cktard CAIR discussion group

/apologies to that great humanitarian actor whose name escapes me at the moment
/

Robert Snake.

re: #50 MandyManners

I should'a known you'd beat me to it, Mandy. Cheers!

re: #56 formercorpsman

The very fact we are even watching a taped discussion related to the subject on the status of stoning in this day and age is the problem.

Hear, hear...

re: #73 tripster

Conclusion: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
~ f*cktard CAIR discussion group

/apologies to that great humanitarian actor whose name escapes me at the moment
/

It's a line from Baretta. There's a humanitarian actor for you.

re: #67 stevieray

re: #44 afdad

re: #34 datadude

re: #33 Walkar

What's a 'moderate muslim'?

Someone like Wafa Sultan, Waled Shoebat, Ali Hirsi Ali. All the others look to be your typical muslim. At least they act that way since they sure aren't out, and about condemning the acts of their fellow believers!

I'm pretty sure all three of those are examples of ex-Muslims, not moderate Muslims.

Yep! That's why I call them moderates!

As far as I can see, any Muslim that is devout, and practices the faith according to their holy books Tennant's certainly isn't someone I'd ever call a moderate. They may not be active Jihadi terrorists like some, but they certainly support the efforts of those who are by their quiet support.

Oh well, I think I might pay my wife some attention, and watch Las Vegas with her.

Maybe I'll be back, maybe not.

If not, have a good night folks.

I always find it fascinating that so many of refuse to use their own moral judgment. They just point out, "It's in the Quran" and that's the end of their critical thought process. I also find it interesting that they all give the same disclaimer, "I'm not an Islamic scholar" before offering their own opinion.

I have to self delete, here. What I would do with these people would make a farm animal blush.

JWM

re: #77 Slumbering Behemoth

re: #50 MandyManners

I should'a known you'd beat me to it, Mandy. Cheers!

She must have Youtube on speed dial or something like that. She's faster than the chefs down at Benihana's working on my shrimp order.

re: #82 Killgore Trout

I always find it fascinating that so many of refuse to use their own moral judgment. They just point out, "It's in the Quran" and that's the end of their critical thought process. I also find it interesting that they all give the same disclaimer, "I'm not an Islamic scholar" before offering their own opinion.

Indeed.

re: #83 JWM

I have to self delete, here. What I would do with these people would make a farm animal blush.

JWM

F**K islam. Goodnight all!

re: #33 Walkar

Where are all the moderate Muslims?

Fighting jihadists in Iraq, maybe? I know they exist, we must give them a voice. They will not get it here in the US, not with CAIR. IMHO.

re: #47 datadude

Point being, I think (could be wrong?) that they'd just
describe themselves as merely 'Muslim' rather than
'moderate Muslim'...I'm certain those that we're at
war against would say that they're 'Muslim' too. My
point was that we should call the former 'Muslim' and the
latter 'jihadist' or 'Islamist' or 'Islamo-facsist' or
the like. IMO the more we acknowledge those who
seek to follow Islam as Muslims, and the more we
can appropriately recognize those who seek to
kill in the name of that religion for the evildoers that
they clearly are...well, I think the more we'll succeed in affirming real people, and targeting the monsters.

For the record personally, I don't agree with lots of the
conclusions of Islam. I don't think Jesus was merely a
prophet. But I don't want those who sincerely follow Islam
to be lumped in with the bastards who celebrated when
we got hit on 9/11 (I remember those bastards on my TV
screen...jumping for joy that we were gut-punched and
bleeding). But I also have a couple buddies who abhor
such BS...and they call themselves Muslim.

Anyhoo, that's my take...

re: #72 So?
Thanks so?Tonight I'm down from camp LEJUNE..pray for the female marine and child that have left us...because evil...is with us.

re: #20 song_and_dance_man

re: #13 varmint

that's not karen armstrong.

I think you may be right.

I think it's Kathleen O'Connor - per the below, found here.

Video: CAIR-FL Rep Joins PBS Panel on ‘Islam vs. Islamists’
CAIR-FL REP JOINS PBS PANEL ON ‘ISLAM VS. ISLAMISTS’ - TOP

Tampa PBS affiliate WEDU Public affairs host, Rob Lorei and a distinguished panel of guests discuss the controversial PBS documentary “Islam vs. Islamists” and explore what it means to be a Muslim in the world today.

Panel:

* Ahmed Bedier, executive director, CAIR Tampa
* Samar Jarrah, educator and author
* Kathleen O’Connor, Assistant Professor of Religious Studies, USF
* Sarah Kassem, high school student

Video: CAIR-FL Rep Joins PBS Panel on ‘Islam vs. Islamists’
CAIR-FL REP JOINS PBS PANEL ON ‘ISLAM VS. ISLAMISTS’ - TOP

Tampa PBS affiliate WEDU Public affairs host, Rob Lorei and a distinguished panel of guests discuss the controversial PBS documentary “Islam vs. Islamists” and explore what it means to be a Muslim in the world today.

Panel:

* Ahmed Bedier, executive director, CAIR Tampa
* Samar Jarrah, educator and author
* Kathleen O'Connor, Assistant Professor of Religious Studies, USF
* Sarah Kassem, high school student

>>speechless.

the fat dhimmi slut was the icing on the cake...

re: #82 Killgore Trout

It's in the Koran!

"We don't know when this was. "
Well, it certainly was since the invention of film, right?

Sarah Kaseem's headscarf was fastened too tight around her head: she was gasping to make sense, yet it all sounded so nonsensical... almost Kafkian, the entire dialog.

"We don't use stoning. We replaced it with lashes."

re: #91 beachkatie

re: #72 So?
Thanks so?Tonight I'm down from camp LEJUNE..pray for the female marine and child that have left us...because evil...is with us.

That really got to me. I'll sure be praying here.

re: #93 medaura18586

completely...

how many islamic chins does SHE have...

Allah (piss be upon him) says "One shall not have anymore chins than one would desire to have chopped up into body parts and distributed amongst heathens."

(I'm not an islamic scholar however - so don't ask me anything)

re: #99 WindHorse

lol... I'm not an Islamic scholar,... BUT...%&$#&$!

...that goes on the quote wall.

re: #94 Slumbering Behemoth

HAAA! Saved it to my IE 'Favorites'. That was good!

slowly but surely... the Western world IS awakening to this nightmare called islam.

Thank God.

"You can believe in a stone if you like, as long as you don't throw it at me!"

Wafa Sultan
God Bless Her.

Trouble is, CAIR hasn't been baited properly lately.

How about this...CAIR SUCKS CABRITO SCROTUM!

That's sure to get a rise.

re: #105 rorschach
You're bad, dude. You're gonna smoke a turd in
hell for that one!

re: #2 David IV of Georgia

Yes Jesus said that. Are you saying that you have no sin?

If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Lol

Jesus also stopped the crowd from stoning the woman

#48 Sarge 1984

I think what they were saying is that they don't believe it happens as much because it takes 4 witnesses.

I agree with that. The point I was trying to make is that there is a presumption of guilt regarding a woman who gets stoned. According to them, stoning almost never occurs, and when the west brings it up, it's proof of the west's "Islamophobia." However, if there is an isolated case of a woman getting stoned somewhere, she must have been guilty of adultery, since there must have been 4 witnesses. Which, of course, is ludicrous.

A few years back, my mother forwarded an email to me about some stamp the postal service was going to issue for some islamic (intentionally not capitalized) holiday, saying it shouldn't be supported, it's wrong, these are the bastards that attacked us, yadda-yadda-yadda. Snopes said it's false, it's a hoax, whatever.

I flamed her. I told her, basically, that this was against everything that she ever taught us about tolerance and accepting that there are other religions that don't believe the same as we do...just threw everything she'd taught my brothers and me back at her.

I owe her a huge, resounding apology.

Muslims, at least according to the Ahmed Deedat pamphlet now available on mobile phones (as mentioned in a recent blog post by Daniel Pipes, reject the idea of original sin, and thus the need for redemption. (Deedat also took great pains to discredit the Bible, mostly rehashing 18th-Century stale "higher criticism" tropes; he was more than a little critical of the Islamic prophet Esa (Jesus), whose biblical death account he calls a "cruci-fiction.")

Many non-Western religions don't have the concept of original sin (one smug Indian mail-order ad I keep seeing on some technology site reads "A perfect bride for a perfect groom" -- ugh!). But in the context of "great Abrahamic faiths" or the monotheistic trio, this is a hell of a thing to leave out. Together with the collectivist conception of faith (far too few Muslims seem to take Zuhdi Jasser's view about the primacy of a personal relationship with Allah), we should reject suggestions that we Christians and Jews share much with Muslim belief, especially the "we all worship the same God" lie.

re: #74 formercorpsman

About the sisters in the Taxi. I would guess that it wasn't an "honor" killing. That was his cover to be welcomed in Egypt.
He killed them because he was sexually abusing them, and they were old enough to be credible witnesses.

re: #108 donkeybites

I hope I didn't come off as snarky with that. I agree with you--hell, the fat bastard even came out with a porn reference.

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the disregard for human life that they're claiming comes from a religious source.

re: #108 donkeybites

#48 Sarge 1984

I think what they were saying is that they don't believe it happens as much because it takes 4 witnesses.

I agree with that. The point I was trying to make is that there is a presumption of guilt regarding a woman who gets stoned. According to them, stoning almost never occurs, and when the west brings it up, it's proof of the west's "Islamophobia." However, if there is an isolated case of a woman getting stoned somewhere, she must have been guilty of adultery, since there must have been 4 witnesses. Which, of course, is ludicrous.

Ok, so it takes 4 witnesses, but if the accused is a woman, and her testimony in court is only worth 1/2 that of a man's, wouldn't that mean that it only takes 2 male witnesses against a female, or one male and two females, or...aw screw it! Muslime math is stupid!

Hey muslimes, I've got a simple 1+1 equation for you, here goes:

t("t)

re: #110 Bill Jefferson
Good call, Bill.

re: #112 Sarge1984

re: #108 donkeybites

I hope I didn't come off as snarky with that. I agree with you--hell, the fat bastard even came out with a porn reference.

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the disregard for human life that they're claiming comes from a religious source.

This is the big divide, I think. It's hard for us to understand that reverence for life is not, across the board, a habit common to all belief systems.

Logic in Islam:

The fact that she was stoned to death is proof that she committed adultery.

re: #107 astronmr20

re: #2 David IV of Georgia

Yes Jesus said that. Are you saying that you have no sin?

If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Lol

Jesus also stopped the crowd from stoning the woman

And it shows something interesting - something totally missing from the ME Muslim mindset is the way those of us in the Judeo-Christian west think about the basic concepts of forgiveness and sin and judging others. The result is the imposition of great hunks of judgmentalism all through the Muslim world, leading to tons o punishment.

A crowd of Jews, who were about to stone a woman, immediately understood the concept, realizing they were obviously all sinners. Today, 2000 years later, a well-educated Muslim honcho missed the boat by about a mile - his grasp of this extremely well understood - in the west - concept of forgiveness is for him an ok to stone people after a quick "Yes I am perfect" sin-check.

re: #67 stevieray

re: #44 afdad

re: #34 datadude

re: #33 Walkar

What's a 'moderate muslim'?

Someone like Wafa Sultan, Waled Shoebat, Ali Hirsi Ali. All the others look to be your typical muslim. At least they act that way since they sure aren't out, and about condemning the acts of their fellow believers!

I'm pretty sure all three of those are examples of ex-Muslims, not moderate Muslims.

How about Imam Palazzi and Irshad Manji

Since Islam is so intrinsically loopy, even "moderate" Muslims are still (by our standards) extreme.

Manji & Palazzi are, by our standards, normal, nice, rational people. They are "moderates", but by Islam's standards they are dangerous radicals and traitors.

That's just another reason to love them, IMO.

re: #117 Cattt

re: #107 astronmr20

re: #2 David IV of Georgia

Yes Jesus said that. Are you saying that you have no sin?

If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Lol
Jesus also stopped the crowd from stoning the woman

And it shows something interesting - something totally missing from the ME Muslim mindset is the way those of us in the Judeo-Christian west think about the basic concepts of forgiveness and sin and judging others. The result is the imposition of great hunks of judgmentalism all through the Muslim world, leading to tons o punishment.

A crowd of Jews, who were about to stone a woman, immediately understood the concept, realizing they were obviously all sinners. Today, 2000 years later, a well-educated Muslim honcho missed the boat by about a mile - his grasp of this extremely well understood - in the west - concept of forgiveness is for him an ok to stone people after a quick "Yes I am perfect" sin-check.

Even with all my outrage, I still flash on the visual of Jesus being hit with a rock and saying, "Mother! Cut that out!"

And the Catholic upbringing in me floods with guilt.

re: #119 Sarge1984

I totally understand that Catholic guilt thing (e.g., me too).

My favorite Catholic joke:

A man walked up to a Franciscan and a Jesuit and asked, "How many novenas must you say to get a Mercedes Benz?"

The Franciscan asked, "What's a Mercedes Benz?"

The Jesuit asked, "What's a novena?"

re: #110 Bill Jefferson

islam on the crucifixion:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise – Surah 4:157-8 (Yusuf Ali)

The central tenet of Christianity is that Jesus/God willingly underwent the sacrifice for the salvation of mankind. islam reduces that sacrifice to a cheap parlour trick.

JWM

re: #101 datadude

check this out

on the 8:35 minute mark, making fun of suicide bombers

re: #1 jester6

Everybody must get stoned.

Oww, oof, urk, arrrg.

re: #117 Cattt

Good call. Well more thought-out and better-worded than
my previous (post#5 on this thread). Thanks for that. (And
I really liked the '"Yes I am perfect" sin-check' tag). You
rock!

Everyone go to dinner or something?

efo kol?

I would say this is unbelievable, but its not. Here are four supposedly intellgent people actually trying to justify this act. We dont know the circumstances...blah blah blah...its impossible to prove adultery so it doesnt really happen...blah blah blah..my favorite is its probably only one percent of the muslim world..hmmm a little math...a billion muslims...one percent...thats a heck of a lot of stones! Sheesh..will the world wake up already!

re: #108 donkeybites

#48 Sarge 1984

I think what they were saying is that they don't believe it happens as much because it takes 4 witnesses.

I agree with that. The point I was trying to make is that there is a presumption of guilt regarding a woman who gets stoned. According to them, stoning almost never occurs, and when the west brings it up, it's proof of the west's "Islamophobia." However, if there is an isolated case of a woman getting stoned somewhere, she must have been guilty of adultery, since there must have been 4 witnesses. Which, of course, is ludicrous.

There have been cases. All the onces I've heard about in the past few years have been in Pakistan. Some are tribal things in rural uber Islamic areas, where women are gang raped on purpose (with witnesses watching), then charged with fornication or adultery. Some are prosecuted under the under the idiotic zina laws, which date from 1979. Under these laws, a woman has the burden of proof in a rape case. That much is like the west, but under zina, if the woman cannot produce four witnesses, she is guilty of zina, for which the penalty is death. She can be stoned to death for this.

The thing is, if we go back to the time of Mohammed, the idea of having four witnesses to a crime can be viewed as a positive thing. One of his wives got left behind the caravan, and a man went to get her. When they got back, it was pointed out she was alone with another man not her husband. Mohammed had one of those thunderbolt from Allah moments and told everyone it was not a crime unless there were four witnesses, thus getting his wife off the hook.

Kathleen O'Connor is mind-boggling. The major Islamic countries (Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc... are beheading, stoning and whipping people to death, and honor killings and killings of 'apostates' and those who insult Islam are spreading through the west, and she says it's 1%. Whenever the news comes on, she must have her fingers screwed into her ears and be screaming 'La-La-la-La-la-La, I Can't Hear You!'.

Can I stone Ahmed Bedier just b/c I don't like him?

re: #124 datadude

:)

Wow, the taqiyya is ripe with this one. First they claim that stoning is permissible in Christianity, even knowing about that whole "without sin" business. Then the one lady claims oh but you can't find it in the Qur'an. Yes, it's true that there's no verse discussing stoning in the Qur'an, but that's only because a goat ate this verse after it was written down, and was thus not put compiled into the final Qur'an. She claims that Moses proscribed this law which is true, later Jesus forbidding it (true), but Muslims believe the Bible to be mostly garbage, corrupted and there's no evidence from any Islamic sources for the Jesus and the prostitute story. How many infidels recognize this? How many from LGFers, a group who should be the first to know Islam? Why am I the first to point this out?

Are there any women here?

I am hereby forming a new religion.

It's not exclusive - and the only "commandment' is

"Thou shalt feel free to stone the idiots at CAIR - and I promise that I - your ghod - won't care."

Any converts?

re: #90 datadude

re: #47 datadude

Point being, I think (could be wrong?) that they'd just
describe themselves as merely 'Muslim' rather than
'moderate Muslim'...I'm certain those that we're at
war against would say that they're 'Muslim' too. My
point was that we should call the former 'Muslim' and the
latter 'jihadist' or 'Islamist' or 'Islamo-facsist' or
the like. IMO the more we acknowledge those who
seek to follow Islam as Muslims, and the more we
can appropriately recognize those who seek to
kill in the name of that religion for the evildoers that
they clearly are...well, I think the more we'll succeed in affirming real people, and targeting the monsters.

For the record personally, I don't agree with lots of the
conclusions of Islam. I don't think Jesus was merely a
prophet. But I don't want those who sincerely follow Islam
to be lumped in with the bastards who celebrated when
we got hit on 9/11 (I remember those bastards on my TV
screen...jumping for joy that we were gut-punched and
bleeding). But I also have a couple buddies who abhor
such BS...and they call themselves Muslim.

Anyhoo, that's my take...

Datadude, it seems to me the problem is that Islam is a total crock of sh*t right from the git-go, with zero redeeming features. It's prophet was a pedophile nutcase megalomaniac. Anyone who devoutly believes that shiite is suspect in my book.

Nevertheless, I'll accept that there are what we call cultural muslims, being folks who had the great misfortune to be born into a muslim family and muslim culture, and who simply go through the motions of worship, without ever giving it much thought. They are not so much moderate as they are indifferent.

There really are no "moderate muslims" since there really is no theological basis for "moderation" in islam. Read Robert Spencer for more on this subject.

We really need a better term for the radical islamic fundamentalists than "Islamofascists". Obviously, it's our best interests as a civilization to drive wedge between the cultural muslims and the bat-shit crazy ones.

#134 Alberta

It seems to me we should concentrate our efforts on criticizing the Sharia and there is no need to sort out the gradations of Muslims that either exist or only exist in the mind of liberal arts professors.

If someone wantsto arrive at good thoughts through the symbols of Islam in the privacy of their own home, I don`t care.

The issue is should a secular society respect any aspect of the Sharia when clearly it should not; from cab drivers taking seeing eye dogs to importing underage cousins from Warazistan.

re: #61 karmic_inquisitor
From your Leviticus link:

20:1 God spoke to Moses, telling him to

20:2 say the following to the Israelites:

Let them rave on.. I recall the lawsuit against the White Power church "Order" or something like that.. will take balls of steel prosecutor and a army to protect the jury.. but one day Islam will pay.. it maybe as sweet to get them like the first mafia bosses fell.. income tax laws.. /

/a mosque in every pot

re: #62 WrathofG-d

...That being said: Wrath actually advocates stoning for Adultery. (In a world where divorce is so easy, there is NO REASON to cheat!)

Seriously? Jesus said lust=adultery:

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery'; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. - Mt 5:27-28

No stoning in the Qur'an. I guess it depends which Qur'an you read, of course it won't be the American cleaned up version.

24:002 The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. (This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime but if married persons commit it, the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allah's Law).

Translations of Sahih Bukhari

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 805:

Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah Al-Ansari:

A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to Allah's Apostle and Informed him that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse and bore witness four times against himself. Allah's Apostle ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married Person.

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 806:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

A man came to Allah's Apostle while he was in the mosque, and he called him, saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse.'" The Prophet turned his face to the other side, but that man repeated his statement four times, and after he bore witness against himself four times, the Prophet called him, saying, "Are you mad?" The man said, "No." The Prophet said, "Are you married?" The man said, "Yes." Then the Prophet said, 'Take him away and stone him to death." Jabir bin 'Abdullah said: I was among the ones who participated in stoning him and we stoned him at the Musalla. When the stones troubled him, he fled, but we over took him at Al-Harra and stoned him to death.

Why do you need 4 witnesses?

You didn't before Aisha, Mohammad's child-bride, got lost on one of his raids. Mohammad used to draw lots with his wives to see which ones would accompany him. Aisha, and 2 of his other wives, were drawn to accompany Mohammed on his raid of B. al-Mustaliq.

She lost her Zafar beads and went and searched in the desert for them. However, when she was gone, they broke camp and her howdah was set onto the camel, without knowing Aisha wasn't in it.

She came back to find the raiding party gone. She was finally rescued by a raiding party straggler.

To make a very long story short; this was not allowed. A married woman (child-bride) alone with a male. Rumors started being spread and Mohammad was thinking about divorcing her.

Just in the nick of time a 'Divine Revalation' was thrust upon Muhammad, 24:11-16, and his child-bride was safe.

On a side note they should make a comedy called "Sticky Situations" and have Muhammad have deep troubles and worries for the first 25 minutes - then out of the blue a revelation is revealed, the day is saved, and the laughter sound track kicks in. Maybe with Aerosmith's Back in the Saddle Again as Mohammad rides off into the stars on his Buraq.

If anyone is interested, more on the 'slander' case of Aisha.

Translations of Sahih Bukhari - Volume 6, Book 60, Number 274:

re: #137 BingoBunny
World Church of the Creator (w/Matt Hale)? that one when they supposedly solicited someone to kill the Judge?

Did I hear her correctly?

It is only practiced by 1 percent of Muslims.

I don't have my handy Islamic calculator with me, but I think 1 percent of a 1 billion (+) Muslims is ... a number. If it is a good deed we are talking about, then 1 percent is probably 200 million people. If it is a bad deed I think the math works out to around 27 people. I'm beginning to catch on to the arithmetic of those who would only tell me the truth.

4 witnesses? I suppose that means 8 female witnesses - or would it be 16? I forget.

So many stupid statements - it's hard to choose - I suppose a contender for most asinine takiya was when the CAIR-bot came up with, "We don't know when the video was made ..." Yeah, let's stay open-minded - it could have been made in the year 800 A.D.

Islam is always appalling. What a disgusting religion and what dreadful people.

re: #141 Webler

Did I hear her correctly?

It is only practiced by 1 percent of Muslims.

I don't have my handy Islamic calculator with me, but I think 1 percent of a 1 billion (+) Muslims is ... a number. If it is a good deed we are talking about, then 1 percent is probably 200 million people. If it is a bad deed I think the math works out to around 27 people. I'm beginning to catch on to the arithmetic of those who would only tell me the truth.

Frankly, that one percent is not what scares me most - it is the 99% that will neither condemn it nor even really believe it wrong.

Gosh, they were literally falling on each other in order to excuse Islam of any wrong doing. Notice that the imam points to the...Qur'an as the religious foundation for the stoning. Yet western dhimmis tell us that religion has nothing to do with the acts a "Tiny Minority of Muslims" do in the name of Islam!

re: #26 Alas

Wow, that was fantastic...

BHG

The refuse to condemn stoners?

Oh ... STONING.

Maybe they should get stoned themselves and think that one over.

MFers

A fascinating program about 4 people sitting around saying ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about anything. Remember they are 'not scholars' etc.

I can understand the Muslims speaking the way they do...they've been indoctrinated. But who is the stupid white woman?

p.s. #139 Webler...excellent! thanks for the info. It's important that we have first source proof.

Tsk, tsk, no mention of me. Woulda been my first public LGF hat tip, too. Eh well, there's no end of the good that can be accomplished, if you don't care who gets the credit.

If any of these idiots question stoning, they would be questioning the "noble" Hadith...probably not a good idea if they're within earshot of an Imam (or another Muslim, for that matter).

See my comment referencing the passage in the Hadith (in which the Prophet approves stoning) from the "Gitmo Torture Groupies Lose One" thread.

This is an example of the core weakness of Islam: you are not allowed to question barbaric practices from the 7th century--they must be accepted and, worse, perpetuated!

The Muslim girl says stoning is in all monotheistic religions. I'd like to say BULLSHIT! If she was allowed to read Jesus' teachings she would see he said not to do sick shit like stone people to death. Specifically stoning women to death. And then Ahmed Bedier says it applies to women and men, yeah...right.
Stoning is meant to be a horror punishment in order to keep women as men's property, especially to keep them sexually owned by one man. There is a reason young girls in Pakistan and Afghanistan carry-out self-immolation rather then be some old man's 3rd wife. She knows the punishments for refusing sex, or for running away, or for wanting a sexual partner chosen of her own free will are. Being beat to death over time, stoned to death, or burnt to death...what's the difference in these girls minds. Anyway, Muslims, and anyone else who agrees with these barbarities are sick.

Also, check out the dhimmi bitch...she defends the Muslims more than they defend themselves. At least the Muslims know stoning people to death looks kinda bad for Islam...that stupid bitch even trys to elimate that aspect.
This is key, and is a perfect example of dhimmitude.

re: #139 Webler

(This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime but if married persons commit it, the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allah's Law).

That bit in brackets isn't part of the original text of the Koran - that's just what the editor of that particular version added. There were supposed to be verses advocating stoning but they are mysteriously 'missing'. Their absence is even referred to in a Hadith.

"Allah sent Muhammad with the truth and revealed the holy book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married persons, male and female, who commit adultery) and we did recite this verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him. I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say 'By Allah, we do not find the verse of the Rajam in Allah's book', and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed." Bukhari, vol. 8, p. 539.

Which is theologically speaking an extremely weak argument given that Islam's most fundamental claim is the inerrancy and completeness of the Koran. Seems that Islamists are only Koranic literalists up to the point where it gets in the way of their desire to bludgeon women to death.

'This video has been deleted'

Ah, the near mythical 'moderate Islam' rears its ugly head.

next time the discussion come up, one use of amnesty watch is the recordings of stonings. hundreds of stonings, most not known about. but its not just islam guys, some groups in Iraq do it to.

Two people were stoned to death in Iran and sentences of flogging, amputation and eye-gouging continued to be passed, the human rights group Amnesty International said on Wednesday.

In Iran "the human rights situation deteriorated, with civil society facing increasing restrictions on fundamental freedoms of expression and association", Amnesty International said in its 2007 annual report.

"Two people were reportedly stoned to death. Sentences of flogging, amputation and eye-gouging continued to be passed", the report said.

"At least 177 people were executed, at least four of whom were under 18 at the time of the alleged offence, including one who was under 18 at the time of execution. ... The true numbers of those executed or subjected to corporal punishment were probably considerably higher than those reported.

In June, in the Emirate of Fujairah, a Shari'a (Islamic) court imposed a sentence of death by stoning on Shahin 'Abdul Rahman, a Bangladeshi national, after convicting him of adultery with Asma Bikham Bijam, a migrant domestic worker, who was sentenced to receive a flogging of 100 lashes and to be imprisoned for one year. Ten days later the sentence of death by stoning against Shahin 'Abdul Rahman was commuted on appeal and he received a one-year prison sentence followed by deportation to his home country. However, the sentence of flogging against Asma Bikham Bijam was upheld on appeal. It was not known whether it was carried out.

nigeria

He also criticized the imposition of death by stoning for adultery or sodomy in 12 states, in contravention of Nigerian and international law.

iran again

Amnesty International today (20 June 2007) made an urgent appeal to prevent the public stonings of a man and a woman due to be executed tomorrow, 21 June, for adultery. The two - Mokarrameh Ebrahimi (f) and an unnamed man - are scheduled to be killed in a cemetery in the town of Takestan, Qazvin province. Amnesty members are appealing to Iran's Head of the Judiciary, Ayatollah Shahroudi.

He also criticized the imposition of death by stoning for adultery or sodomy in 12 states, in contravention of Nigerian and international law.

He also criticized the imposition of death by stoning for adultery or sodomy in 12 states, in contravention of Nigerian and international law.

I thought it was interesting at around 3:45 Samar Jarrah says...

Stoning was sanctioned by God and given as a law to Moses. And then a prophet Esau or Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, prevented it.

Isn't Moses also considered to be a prophet in Islam? Why no "peace be upon him" for him?

Vile. Notice how he and his sidekick repeat the same mantra over and over, "all three monotheistic religions..." Difference is, buddy, is that neither Judaism nor Christianity proscribe death by stoning for adultery. Heck, neither one proscribes death! There's a word for what they're doing in this video...equivocation?

re: #159 greggish

I thought it was interesting at around 3:45 Samar Jarrah says...

Stoning was sanctioned by God and given as a law to Moses. And then a prophet Esau or Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, prevented it.

Isn't Moses also considered to be a prophet in Islam? Why no "peace be upon him" for him?

Good observation. I usually see in written text: Moses (pbuh)

Thx to Jimmah

More on stoning (Rajam).

Translations of Sahih Bukhari

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 813:

Narrated Ash-Sha'bi:

from 'Ali when the latter stoned a lady to death on a Friday. 'Ali said, "I have stoned her according to the tradition of Allah's Apostle."

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 815:

Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid:

While we were with the Prophet , a man stood up and said (to the Prophet ), "I beseech you by Allah, that you should judge us according to Allah's Laws." Then the man's opponent who was wiser than him, got up saying (to Allah's Apostle) "Judge us according to Allah's Law and kindly allow me (to speak)." The Prophet said, "'Speak." He said, "My son was a laborer working for this man and he committed an illegal sexual intercourse with his wife, and I gave one-hundred sheep and a slave as a ransom for my son's sin. Then I asked a learned man about this case and he informed me that my son should receive one hundred lashes and be exiled for one year, and the man's wife should be stoned to death." The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is, I will judge you according to the Laws of Allah. Your one-hundred sheep and the slave are to be returned to you, and your son has to receive one-hundred lashes and be exiled for one year. O Unais! Go to the wife of this man, and if she confesses, then stone her to death." Unais went to her and she confessed. He then stoned her to death. [emphases added]

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him."

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 817:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

[...]

In the meantime, 'Umar sat on the pulpit and when the callmakers for the prayer had finished their call, 'Umar stood up, and having glorified and praised Allah as He deserved, he said, "Now then, I am going to tell you something which (Allah) has written for me to say. I do not know; perhaps it portends my death, so whoever understands and remembers it, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, but if somebody is afraid that he does not understand it, then it is unlawful for him to tell lies about me. Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him.

[...]

Robert Spencer's "Blogging the Qur'an" series

Sura 4, "Women," verses 1-16

It seems to be a bigger subject that I originally realized. Aparently, there are quite a few verses missing. As I understand it, 400 Quranic reciters (Qurra) died in the Battle of Yamama.

Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari: who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation: Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra' were killed). 'Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said, 'Umar has come to me and said, The people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among the Qurra' (those who know the Qur'an by heart) at other battle-fields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost, unless you collect it. [...]