LGF

Outside the Beltway and Off the Rails

Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 9:04:51 am PST

James Joyner is rushing to do damage control for Barack Obama: Obama Che Guevara Flag ‘Scandal’. He takes particular exception to an “insinuation” (his word) he says I made:

Johnson’s insinuation is simply beyond the pale: “Barack Obama won’t wear an American flag on his lapel, but on the wall of his Houston campaign office: a Cuban flag with a picture of Communist mass murderer Che Guevara.” As I noted when the ridiculous flap over Obama’s calling flag pins “a substitute for true patriotism” emerged,

I don’t mind people wearing pins or putting stickers on their cars as a show of support for their country or their cause. I am, however, irritated by the notion that so doing makes them somehow superior to those who don’t.
The suggestion that Americans need to start swearing loyalty oaths, though, is light years beyond irritating.

“Loyalty oath?” Where the hell does that come from?

Of course, I never wrote, hinted at, or even thought anything like that. I stated some facts, and Joyner apparently has a problem with those facts, to the point where he’s attributing opinions to me that I did not write, and do not believe.

Facts: Barack Obama did explicitly refuse to wear a flag pin, and there are not one, but two Cuban flags with Che Guevara on them at Obama’s Houston campaign office.

If I’m “insinuating” anything, it’s this: when you actively pander to and encourage the radical leftist elements of your party, as the Democrats have been determinedly doing for the past eight years, you’re going to end up with embarrassing scenes like this.

And attacking the messenger who points it out is standard political damage control. This has nothing to do with “loyalty oaths” (although Obama will, of course, be forced to take a loyalty oath if he’s sworn in as President), and everything to do with the fact that Obama campaign workers apparently idealize a terrorist mass murderer.

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385 comments

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1 Macker  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:06:24am

Dirty Fuckin' Communists...

2 zombie  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:06:55am

Loyalty oath!

It begins.

3 victor_yugo  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:09:01am

"Insinuation"? Joyner must be looking in the mirror.

4 tfc3rid  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:09:02am

You know what... Seing who these rats really are, makes me actually not see McCain as that terrible an option...

Now I feel sick...

5 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:09:03am

re: #2 zombie

You can always tell when they are in CYA mode and trying to distract attention from their own hatred of America when they bring that up.

6 mbruce  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:09:29am

zombie, you're not at the protest?
Where are YOUR loyalties?
/sarc

7 zombie  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:10:06am

Boy, get ready for a nonstop barrage of this for the next 8 months:

If you criticize Obama's supporters for being communist-sympathizers, you are a "McCarthyite" who demands "loyalty oaths."

If you don't support Obama for any reason, you are a "racist" who "can't bear the thought of a black man in charge."

If you don't support Hillary, you are a "sexist" who is "afraid of female power."

Settle in. It will be a long ride.

8 socialcircle  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:10:26am

"Loyalty oath"?

Pledge of Allegiance?

9 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:10:30am

re: #2 zombie

Actually, though, I'm glad when they begin it. When demonrats starts screaming about people "questioning their patriotism," it is invariable they themselves who have started it, and the end result is to lead others who might not otherwise do so to look closely to see just how (un)patriotic they really are.

10 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:10:36am

John Cole was doing the same thing to Captain Ed for making practically the same observations as Charles did.

11 zombie  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:10:49am
12 Shug  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:10:57am
I don’t mind people wearing pins or putting stickers on their cars as a show of support for their country or their cause

Liar.
He cringes every time he sees one

13 victor_yugo  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:11:05am

re: #2 zombie

Loyalty oath!

It begins.

The President's Oath of Office is a loyalty oath.

14 neoconundrum  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:11:20am

Charles Johnson for President!

Charles, I'm going to write you in as an Independent!

15 mbruce  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:11:26am

Penn's prediction
[Link: crackle.com...]

16 CIA Reject  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:11:32am

Once again:

"Change" WHAT from WHAT to WHAT?

I think we're beginning to see the answer, and I for one DO NOT like it...

17 chinesearithmetic  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:11:50am

I don't wear a flag pin either. I could live with Obama's explanation to an irritating question. I have a picture of Nancy Wilson of Heart on my bulletin board. I know I'm not half the man James Joyner is. The Republicans know this, and they're willing to take me as I am.

18 SpartanWoman  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:11:54am

Attacking the messenger is standard CYA and Obama is a standard politician...except he hides his agenda better than most!

Che indeed!

19 allah this  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:12:33am

Che ckmate.

20 JWM  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:13:08am

I'm coming to the conclusion that Obama is orders of magnitude more dangerous than Hillary at her worst.
So I say: Keep attacking, Joyner. Take it to the major TV networks. Make as big a stink as you possibly can. It draws more attention to the Che flag, and the [expletive deleted] mindset in the Obama camp that it represents.

JWM

21 zombie  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:13:08am

re: #6 mbruce

zombie, you're not at the protest?
Where are YOUR loyalties?
/sarc

I know, I know, they called out the "riot squad" and Code Pink is "attacking" the Move America Forward people. (Though I suspect it is a bit of an exaggeration.)

Sadly, I have others things to do today! Can't get up at 6 in the morning and dash off to Berkeley City Hall. Life beckons!

Them's the breaks.

22 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:13:18am

re: #7 zombie

And I welcome it. People have finally gotten fed up with PC, but in a good, healthy American way -- we make fun of it. Look at the ads on TV: increasingly they are built around skewering PC attitudes.

The best way to deal with people like that is to laugh hysterically in their faces, and the American people are doing that. Besides, I think most people are totally fed up with/cynical about the "your a racist/homophobe/sexist/fill-in-the-blank-o-phobe " cant. It don't play in Peoria no mo'.

23 Pope Insouciance IV  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:13:21am

Clinton gets the rank-and-file Dems, many of whom are probably holding their nose to vote for her. Obama gets the hard core fringe group lunatic Dems. As the Wall Street Journal pointed out yesterday, Obama wins a lot of caucus states. Caucases are won by enlisting the fanatical true believers.
Obama winning the nomination is further proof that the Dems are going down the drain. His sweeping rhetoric will mean nothing when the real campaign starts, and a real contrast of candidates is made.

24 SpartanWoman  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:13:32am

And I think the President DOES have to swear something akin to a loyalty oath, to uphold and defend the US Constitution, NOT any sort of radical Che manifesto crap!

25 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:14:25am

Uh- there is a "loyalty oath"- you have to swear to uphold the Constitution when you become President.

26 zombie  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:14:30am

re: #19 allah this

Che ckmate.

! ! ! !

Excellent.

27 victor_yugo  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:14:36am

re: #21 zombie

Life beckons!

Uh, aren't you the undead?

28 harrylook  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:15:21am

re: #8 socialcircle

"Loyalty oath"?

Pledge of Allegiance?

Turns out he won't say that either. But keep moving people, and don't ask questions - there's nothing to see here. Keep moving...

29 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:15:21am

Better in Obama's offices to put up a picture of Abraham Lincoln.

Today would be a good day to start, it is Lincoln's birthday.

30 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:15:32am

How can this man be the front runner now? He speaks very eloquently and gives the appearance of being intelligent. But, he has nothing as far as substance...nothing...change, change, change is all he says. BS about bringing people to together, but no plans, no vision, no nothing. I am wondering once people actually see what he stands for, they will finally take off the blinders...but, this guy might actually be the President of the USA after November...amazing

31 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:15:35am

The last time the Dems pandered to the extreme leftists in their party, they ended up with the embarrassment of getting only around 13 electoral votes.
Let them embarrass themselves that way. I hope.

32 seekeroftruth  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:15:47am

Wow - i'm really disappointed with Joyner. Is this the way this campaign will go - no one is allowed to criticize Obama?
And I have a problem with a candidate running for the United States of America not wanting to wear the pin of the country, nor willing to put is hand on his heart when the pledge of alliance or the national anthem is played, or hanging the flag of a mass murderer.
Obama stops wearing the USA flag pin
[Link: www.breitbart.com...]
the photo of Obama without his hand over his heart:
[Link: paleo.wordpress.com...]

33 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:15:56am

OT, and not to be a wet blanket, but looking at the Frank quote, I always got the sense he always invoked "BEER" when he was ragging on America and evil right-wingers. I recall him saying there was a direct connection between beer-drinking and goose-stepping.

Not one of his finer moments.

34 musicman  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:15:56am

Isn't something like the Guevara flags the very reason so many people tried to disassociate themselves from Ron Paul?

This guy has some major damage control on his hands.

35 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:15:57am

re: #7 zombie

If you don't support Hillary, you are a "sexist" who is "afraid of female power."

The NOW press release attacking The Swimmer on exactly those grounds (after he endorsed Obama) is pure comedy gold.

36 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:16:12am

I'm sorry, but the only people I actually see wearing flag pins are leftists on TV, like Juan Williams.

They wear it as a shield so you can't "question their patriotism."

37 Dianna  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:16:28am

If normal people aren't disturbed by that image, they're not paying attention. I know that a lot of people think Che Guevara was cuddly (and I blame the musical Evita for some of that), but he was, as Charles pointed out, a mass murderer.

38 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:16:35am

re: #25 Sharmuta

Uh- there is a "loyalty oath"- you have to swear to uphold the Constitution when you become President.

Heh.

Nice catch.

39 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:16:41am

re: #33 Lucius Septimius

OT, and not to be a wet blanket, but looking at the Frank quote, I
always got the sense he always invoked "BEER" when he was ragging on
America and evil right-wingers. I recall him saying there was a direct
connection between beer-drinking and goose-stepping.

Not one of his finer moments.


Now that's personal!

40 zombie  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:16:59am

re: #22 Lucius Septimius

I agree. Play the phony race-baiting/McCarthyism-baiting card once too often, and it becomes ineffective henceforth.

And they've played both of them a thousand times too often already.

No one even listens to their attempts at bullying anymore.

41 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:17:15am
(Obama) "I am, however, irritated by the notion that so doing makes them somehow superior to those who don’t."

I don't know the original context for Obama's statement. Did it refer back to something prior, in context, or was he insinuating that anyone who wears a flag-pin or has a patriotic bumper sticker feels superior to those who don't?

42 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:17:23am

re: #31 Kosh's Shadow

The last time the Dems pandered to the extreme leftists in their party, they ended up with the embarrassment of getting only around 13 electoral votes.
Let them embarrass themselves that way. I hope.

Soon, soon. Wait for a candidate to be (s)elected.

43 seekeroftruth  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:17:46am

Pledge of Allegiance pimf !

44 tfc3rid  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:17:56am

re: #30 Desert Dog

People won't see it... The election will be a popularity contest... I've run by enough people who will vote for him because 'it would be cool to have a black guy be president and he isn't George Bush'...

45 Killer Tomato  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:18:03am

re: #36 Ben Hur

I'm sorry, but the only people I actually see wearing flag pins are leftists on TV, like Juan Williams.

They wear it as a shield so you can't "question their patriotism."

*Looks at flag pin on coat lapel*

46 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:18:10am

Charles:

“Loyalty oath?” Where the hell does that come from?

blink
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

47 Shug  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:18:11am

re: #2 zombie

Loyalty oath!

It begins.


gonna be at the Berkeley city council meeting today ?

48 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:18:16am

re: #38 Occasional Reader

Many officials have to swear that.

I was on a planning commission, once. I had to so swear.

49 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:18:34am

Personally, I won't think Obama is cool until he starts wearing a Pol Pot T-shirt, or just maybe a Nikolai Yezhov baseball cap.

50 Macker  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:18:44am

re: #42 Golem Akbar

re: #31 Kosh's Shadow

The last time the Dems pandered to the extreme leftists in their party, they ended up with the embarrassment of getting only around 13 electoral votes.
Let them embarrass themselves that way. I hope.

Soon, soon. Wait for a candidate to be (s)elected.

Gee Wally...

51 Shug  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:19:04am

Che'nge!

52 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:19:10am

re: #38 Occasional Reader

There's also one for Congress:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

53 X-ray  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:19:20am

Just normal leftist tactic of obfuscation. Don't answer the original charge but raise another to the fore.

54 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:19:21am

re: #50 Macker

What a great icon you have

55 varmint  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:19:42am

this would be of interest interest in the general election. but doesn't matter in the democrat primary. i'm sure there's an identical che flag in some hillary office.

56 chinesearithmetic  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:19:46am

And what if it was a Stars and Bars? Could you imagine...

57 zombie  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:19:53am

re: #47 Shug

re: #2 zombie

Loyalty oath!

It begins.


gonna be at the Berkeley city council meeting today ?

Nope.

58 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:19:54am
59 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:20:22am

re: #40 zombie

re: #22 Lucius Septimius

No one even listens to their attempts at bullying anymore.

Though we probably should be paying attention. They're up to no good.

60 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:20:38am

re:

61 Macker  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:20:39am

re: #54 BabbaZee

re: #50 Macker

What a great icon you have

From History of the World, Part II!

62 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:20:45am

He just lost Florida.

Oh, and since all you Lefties think that this all started with Bush, see Chris Jackson:

Abdul-Rauf is perhaps best known for the controversy created when he refused to stand for "the Star-Spangled Banner" before games[1], stating that the flag was a "symbol of oppression" and that the United States had a long "history of tyranny". He said that standing to the national anthem would therefore conflict with his Islamic beliefs. On March 12, 1996 the NBA suspended Abdul-Rauf for his refusal to stand, but the suspension lasted only one game. Two days later, the league was able to work out a compromise with him, whereby he would stand during the playing of the national anthem but could close his eyes and look downward. He usually silently recited a Muslim prayer during this time.

In an apparent publicity stunt gone wrong linked to this controversy, four employees of Denver's KBPI were charged with misdemeanor offenses related to entering a Colorado mosque and playing "the Star-Spangled Banner" on a bugle and trumpet, in a provocative response to Abdul-Rauf's refusal to stand for the national anthem.[2]


1996.

He now plays in the Saudi Arabian league

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

63 zombie  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:20:51am

re: #51 Shug

Che'nge!

Another brilliiant riposte!

That one needs to be a headline.

64 nigella  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:21:06am

This is a sign that the dhimmis are so sure of their "mandate" that they don't have to even try to hide their true colors. They put it right out there proudly for all to see.

65 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:21:32am

re: #50 Macker

re: #42 Golem Akbar


re: #31 Kosh's Shadow

The last time the Dems pandered to the extreme leftists in their party, they ended up with the embarrassment of getting only around 13 electoral votes.
Let them embarrass themselves that way. I hope.

Soon, soon. Wait for a candidate to be (s)elected.

Gee Wally...

Florida revisited. But this time it'll just be dem versus dem. heh

66 stevieray  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:21:49am

I said this last night, and I'll repeat it here:

If our media and education systems were based on honesty and truth, then marxist symbolism would be as reflexively repulsive as nazi symbolism. The fact that the reporter wasn't instantly appalled tells you all you need to know about the grotesque bias in the media and the schools.

Che, Castro, and Marx = Hitler
Hammer and sickle = swastika

Marxists are nothing more than monsters with good press agents.

The defenders of the Che flag need to face facts: Marxism is every bit the totalitarian anti-human slave system that Naziism was. There is no real difference, and if you see pop art images of Che as somehow less offensive than swastikas, you really need to work on your conscience... you cannot spot evil when it stares you in your face.

67 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:21:57am

re: #61 Macker

From History of the World, Part II!

Groovus!

68 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:22:29am

re: #46 BabbaZee

Charles:


“Loyalty oath?” Where the hell does that come from?

blink
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.


What are you? Some sort of sevant?

Of course it's time for Wapner.

Kmart. 400 Oak Street.

I'm a good driver.

69 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:23:00am

BBL

70 DJ Wahaba  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:23:05am

I think Obama's people have a favorite film: Apocalypse Now, because they seem to like this motto: I just love the smell of napalm in the morning...

the problem is they are yet to learn the meaning of safety distance.

71 ackomanyuki  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:23:12am

BO could swear a hundred loyalty oaths on a multicultural stack of Bibles, Korans, Gitas, and Pali Cannons a mile high an it wouldn't mean a damn thing. It never would to a dissimulating fifth columnist of any stripe

72 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:23:45am
Wow - i'm really disappointed with Joyner. Is this the way this campaign will go - no one is allowed to criticize Obama?

That's right. Anyone who criticizes the Obama-Christ, Messiah and Savior of us all, will get what's coming to him. Critics will be charged with racism, McCarthyism, and bestiality if need be.

73 CIA Reject  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:23:49am

re: #46 BabbaZee

Geez, I think at least half of those are official positions of the Obama campaign (that is to the degree one can determine any of their positions: Note to B.O.: voters shouldn't have to run an intel op against your campaign to find out what you stand for).

74 musicman  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:23:56am

re: #8 socialcircle

"Loyalty oath"?

Pledge of Allegiance?

Can't be that...

Red Skelton's Pledge of Allegiance
I me, an individual, a committee of one.
Pledge dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without self pity.
Allegiance my love and my devotion.
To the flag our standard, Old Glory, a symbol of freedom. Wherever she waves, there's respect because your loyalty has given her a dignity that shouts freedom is everybody's job!
Of the United that means that we have all come together.
States of America individual communities that have united into 48 great states. Forty-eight individual communities with pride and dignity and purpose; all divided with imaginary boundaries, yet united to a common purpose, and that's love for country.
And to the republic a state in which sovereign power is invested in representatives chosen by the people to govern. And government is the people and it's from the people to the leaders, not from the leaders to the people.
For which it stands, one nation one nation, meaning "so blessed by God"
Indivisible incapable of being divided.
With liberty which is freedom -- the right of power to live one's own life without threats, fear or some sort of retaliation.
And Justice the principle or quality of dealing fairly with others.
For all which means, boys and girls, it's as much your country as it is mine.

Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance...
UNDER GOD
Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too?

/What makes you think they believe any of it?

75 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:23:57am
The suggestion that Americans need to start swearing loyalty oaths, though, is light years beyond irritating.

The thing about Dem's, they are always ready to accuse you of what they really want to do. This isn't about loyalty, this is about holding up a mass murdering psychopath as a hero

76 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:24:28am

re: #57 zombie

re: #47 Shug


re: #2 zombie

Loyalty oath!

It begins.


gonna be at the Berkeley city council meeting today ?

Nope.


I jst heard that the dried up old hippies have attacked Move America Forward and the cops aren't stopping it. Not even CHPS.

Where the hell are Jon and Ponch?

77 Shug  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:24:51am

re: #63 zombie

re: #51 Shug


Che'nge!

Another brilliiant riposte!

That one needs to be a headline.

Trademark it. put it on signs for the fall election

78 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:25:01am

re: #15 mbruce

Penn's prediction
[Link: crackle.com...]

"No White Bitch Month."

79 Carl B  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:25:22am

On a related note, anyone have reliable information on Obama's background and family, other than what originated from his campaign staff? Even though he is apparently now Christian, half his extended family is presumably muslim. Does he have siblings who have chosen to follow their father's religion? Is the American muslim community claiming him as one of their own?

80 pat  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:25:31am

Loyalty Oath? All Senators are required to take a loyalty oath. What am I missing?

81 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:25:35am

[Link: michellemalkin.com...]

"Peacenics"

My arse.

82 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:25:35am

re: #61 Macker

re: #54 BabbaZee

re: #50 Macker

What a great icon you have

From History of the World, Part II!


Jews In Space!

83 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:25:42am

I bet McCain would refuse to wear a peace symbol, so they're equal

84 Terp Mole  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:25:49am

James Joyner site brags;

James served in the U.S. Army from 1988 to 1992 and is a combat veteran of Operation Desert Storm. He was awarded the Bronze Star Medal, the Army Commendation Medal, and numerous service medals and ribbons. He is a graduate of the Airborne and Air Assault schools.

Thank you for your service to our country, James.

That honorable service does not, however, afford any special privilege to conscend...

I don’t mind people wearing pins or putting stickers on their cars as a show of support for their country or their cause. I am, however, irritated by the notion that so doing makes them somehow superior to those who don’t.

Are you less "irritated by the notion" that Obama campaign staff glorify terrorist mass murderers?

85 mean Gene  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:26:12am

Snopes.com must really love Obama to dig up an instance of him with his hand over his heart, reciting the Pledge, and even singing the Star Spangled Banner.

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

Looks like they let the Obama camp help them.

86 csa945  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:26:29am

I seem to recall that Obama also refuses to put his hand over his heart during the National Anthem as well.

87 BingoBunny  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:26:35am

I'd love the Obama Reds to beat the Billary Reds, it would be like Red China letting the CIA set up listening posts to spy on Soviet Union. They won't last long after that mistake.

88 Chuck Pelto  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:26:44am

TO: Charles Johnson, et al.
RE: More than a Pin

On the first hand, a pin is one thing.

On the second hand, not saluting the flag is another.

On the third hand, the flags are still another.

What am I getting at?

There is a pattern of behavior here that would likely stand up in a court of law on some form of 'prejudice'...

...and THAT being 'anti-American'.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.]

89 zombie  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:26:47am

re: #79 Carl B

On a related note, anyone have reliable information on Obama's background and family, other than what originated from his campaign staff? Even though he is apparently now Christian, half his extended family is presumably muslim. Does he have siblings who have chosen to follow their father's religion? Is the American muslim community claiming him as one of their own?

Boy, are you behind on the curve!

People have been investigating this angle for over a year already.

90 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:26:51am

re: #72 Lizard by the Bay

Wow - i'm really disappointed with Joyner. Is this the way this campaign will go - no one is allowed to criticize Obama?

That's
right. Anyone who criticizes the Obama-Christ, Messiah and Savior of us
all
, will get what's coming to him. Critics will be charged with
racism, McCarthyism, and bestiality if need be.

I think the proper term is Mahdi.

91 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:26:55am

re: #66 stevieray

Marxism and it's evil spawn are the all time record holders for mass murder...the Nazis, as bad as they were, were amateurs compared to the rivers of blood the bastard commies had flowing. Che was a pig on the first order and anyone that thinks he was anything but that is either a fool or agrees with his murderous methods, and I would say most or all of the moron's sporting the "Che" logo today are the former...fools

92 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:27:22am

They remain very interested in the "loyalty oath" issue

Militant Greetings!

~
You do realize this paves the way for Muslims to refuse to swear on bibles here as well

Verily I say unto you that the Islamic Beast will ride the Gramscian Whore straight into the abomination that causes desolation !

93 victor_yugo  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:27:29am

When B. Hussein Obama comes to your town, make a big sign with "the" pic of Che, and the words "OBAMA'S HERO".

If you have a buddy along, make another sign with the parody-Che pic of Reagan, and the words "OBAMA'S ENEMY". That should really drive the point home with anyone whose understanding tends to the "fuzzy" area.

94 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:27:44am

The original version, which took place a week or so ago, was

CHEnge!

I claim partial credit.

95 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:27:46am

re: #79 Carl B

Is the American muslim community claiming him as one of their own?

I don't know about that, but there is this.

96 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:27:50am

re: #68 Ben Hur

Kmart sucks

97 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:27:57am

re: #72 Lizard by the Bay

Wow - i'm really disappointed with Joyner. Is this the way this campaign will go - no one is allowed to criticize Obama?

That's right. Anyone who criticizes the Obama-Christ, Messiah and Savior of us all, will get what's coming to him. Critics will be charged with racism, McCarthyism, and bestiality if need be.

You are right, of course. However, I think a lot of people who would vote for Obama will be very put off by that kind of rhetoric and may just vote the other way because of it. A lot of people.

98 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:28:23am
99 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:28:24am

re: #30 Desert Dog

How can this man be the front runner now? He speaks very eloquently and gives the appearance of being intelligent. But, he has nothing as far as substance...nothing...change, change, change is all he says. BS about bringing people to together, but no plans, no vision, no nothing. I am wondering once people actually see what he stands for, they will finally take off the blinders...but, this guy might actually be the President of the USA after November...amazing

It's easy to say nothing and have no plans when you're just a marionette.

Remember folks, Obama answers to the Machine, and does nothing on his own, says nothing on his own. When he was in the Illinois General Assembly, he answered to Emil Jones, now president of the Illinois Senate. Emil Jones answers to his own masters, and seems not to take a crap without authorization from the governor (Blagojevich). That's the main difference I see between Obama and Hillary. Hillary has a mind of her own and will not be controlled by someone above. Obama is the perfect puppet president.

100 mikalm  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:28:29am

re: #33 Lucius Septimius

Zappa was obsessively anti-intoxicants. Except for cigarettes, which ended up killing him.

101 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:28:44am

Obama/Guevara '08!

/we can rebuild him

/we have the technology

102 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:28:45am

re: #73 CIA Reject

MMhmmm
it is instructive to read it frequently

103 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:28:49am

re: #79 Carl B

His cousin in Kenya is trying to shove shari down everyone's throat.

104 Shug  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:29:10am

Your average Democrat voter either doesn't know who Che is, or he does know who che is and he is a fan of che. Therefore Che flags in the BSO campaign office can only enhance his street cred

/after all, isn't Che that cool looking guy at the Cigar shot at the Hard Rock Hotel in Vegas ?

105 Carl B  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:29:18am

re: #89 zombieYes, but much of the information out there points back to Obama's own literature, not independent research. Linkies?

106 tfc3rid  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:29:24am

re: #60 Desert Dog

Or a McCain campaign HQ, say, in SC, with a Confederate Flag?

107 Cognito  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:29:36am

Couple of things for Joyner (whomever he is):

1) Yes, indeed, we should swear a loyalty oath to America. No, I'm not saying you've got to wear a pin. I don't. But I do pledge allegiance to this country.

I suppose that makes me a Loyalty Oaf.

2) Forget the pin for now. You're using that to sidestep the real substance of the matter at hand: The Che flag. Does or doesn't Obama support his staff hanging such an image?

Always curious,
- C

108 boazhorribilis  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:30:04am

I do not know to what degree Obama is responsible for the posters but this would be the perfect time for him to come out and spell out how disgusting a gesture for any human being possessing common sense it is to promote a known and bonafide murderer. If not, he is as bad as the idiots who put it on the wall.
As far as lapels and sing alongs, I see nothing wrong with it although it is not my cup of tea. One can see plenty of hypocrites and treasonous Americans displaying these gestures while acting against the interests of their fellow citizens. It is not with these gestures where American patriotism begins nor is it where it ends.

109 muhammad cat  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:30:24am

This story now has potential for serious funny! (Chris Matthews crying on TV and screaming "Have you, at last, no shame, Charles Johnson?!? LEAVE OBAMA ALONE!" comes to mind as a acceptable outcome)

110 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:30:42am

re: #66 stevieray

Much of the problem has to do with the fact that Americans, and the world generally, has bought into the lie that Fascists are "right wing" and Communists are "left wing." This is simply not true. Mussolini was a Socialist first and foremost. He was ejected from the party for supporting WWI. After he took power it was the Soviet's who, along with their Comintern plants in the western media, painted him as a "right wing" phenomenon. Hitler was a man of the left; the German Workers Party (DAP) was initially a radical socialist group. Spanish Fascism and related movements in France and Italy emerged after the Second International among Anarchists and Anarcho-Syndicalists -- followers of Bakunin and Proudhon. In other words, fascism, in all its forms and variants, was an outgrowth of revolutionary socialism and emerged in the wake of the split between "democratic socialists" (Labor parties and unions) and revolutionaries. But that has been obscured for one simple reason: the success of propaganda by the Soviets and western Leftists trying to cover their tracks.

The unfortunate corollary is that "moderate" has been presented as the ideal, since "extreme" right and left are both seen as leading to totalitarianism. But it's not true. Totalitarianism IS a left-wing phenomenon. Conservatisem is it's antithesis. But sadly we've lost that battle, and the result is Bush I, Bush II, McCain, and 4/5 of the US Senate.

111 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:30:44am

re: #98 taxfreekiller

It is standard KGB to fund both sides BTW

112 VegasRick  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:30:49am

OT. Hamasses "Jew eating bunny on FOX news righy now.

113 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:31:18am
Update 11:14am. Just received word from Cat Moy with Move America Forward of a physical confrontation by the Code Pinkos against pro-troops supporters. Cat writes:

Berkeley Police Watch “Peace” Freaks attack Patriots

Berkeley erupted in violence Tuesday morning when the Communist, terrorist-supporting anti-war group crossed into Martin Luther King Park and assaulted pro-troop individuals. Riot police stood by, but did not stop the assaults. Police agencies did not respond to calls for help.

Move America Forward, the nation’s largest pro-troop organization, received permits from the City of Berkeley to hold a daylong demonstration in MLK park against the City Council who passed three outrageous resolutions calling U.S. Marines “unwanted intruders.”

“It is mayhem on here,” MAF communications director Danny Gonzalez said from the park early Tuesday morning.

Code Pink was permitted for across the street. The two sides were to stay separated, according to rules laid down by the city. But the city has a history of giving Code Pink special preference. The City Council gave free parking permits and a free noise permit to the radical group, which has helped fund terrorist families in Iraq with a $600,000 gift. MAF Exeutive Director Catherine Moy attempted to get help from the Berkeley police as the mayhem unfolded, but an officer hung up on Moy. Moy asked the California Highway Patrol to help in the emergency, but the CHP refused. “I have never in my life experienced such inaction in the face of an emergency, “Moy said. “I will ask the Federal Government to investigate, as well as the State Attorney General. It is one thing to give free parking places to the City Council’s special interest anti-war groups, it is another to take sides and endanger the lives of others.”

Move America Forward and other pro-troop organizations will stand in support of the Marines all day Tuesday until they can enter the City Council chambers to address the City Council.


[Link: michellemalkin.com...]

114 Chuck Pelto  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:31:26am

TO: All
RE: We Need...

...someone to re-write the lyrics to that classic rock song...

CHE-CHE-CHE-CHE-CHEnges.

Maybe after the Dhimmicrats nominate Obama.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

115 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:31:30am

re: #66 stevieray

I said this last night, and I'll repeat it here:

If our media and education systems were based on honesty and truth, then marxist symbolism would be as reflexively repulsive as nazi symbolism. The fact that the reporter wasn't instantly appalled tells you all you need to know about the grotesque bias in the media and the schools.

Che, Castro, and Marx = Hitler
Hammer and sickle = swastika

Marxists are nothing more than monsters with good press agents.

The defenders of the Che flag need to face facts: Marxism is every bit the totalitarian anti-human slave system that Naziism was. There is no real difference, and if you see pop art images of Che as somehow less offensive than swastikas, you really need to work on your conscience... you cannot spot evil when it stares you in your face.

There is a difference. Communism goes after anyone they feel like, irrespective of religion or race. Anyone can join its evil cult. Even Jews.
Nazism was only open to Ayrans, and attacked everyone else. Jews could not join, ever.
Does that make one less evil than the other? I can't answer that question.

116 realwest  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:31:50am

re: #13 victor_yugo MOST EXCELLENT POST!
BTW - didja know that the new US $1.00 coin omits the phrase "In God We Trust"?!

117 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:32:00am

re: #62 Ben Hur

Oh, and since all you Lefties think that this all started with Bush, see Chris Jackson:

1996? Pssht. What a Johnny-come-lately. Try 1968.

118 Dianna  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:32:46am

re: #49 Occasional Reader

Ow.

Just, ow.

119 crown_of_feathers  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:33:03am

re: #66 stevieray

"The defenders of the Che flag need to face facts: Marxism is every bit the totalitarian anti-human slave system that Naziism was."

In my opinion, the results of Marxism have been even worse than Naziism. I say that advisedly, since Nazi monsters destroyed almost half my people. But I don't think even the Nazis approached the butcher's bill of 100 million or so dead due to Russian/Chinese/Cambodian Communism in the 20th century.

But of course, we hear ever so little about that, from the Che-lovers of the world.

121 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:33:14am

re: #100 mikalm

Oh, I know, but I wish he wouldn't have lumped all beer drinkers with Nazis.

And we all have our own little addictions. The "new comments" button, for example.

122 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:33:29am

Excellent retort, Charles.

I though Joyner was way out of line with this.

123 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:33:47am

re: #116 realwest

re: #13 victor_yugo MOST EXCELLENT POST!
BTW - didja know that the new US $1.00 coin omits the phrase "In God We Trust"?!

I thought it was etched into the coin's edge.

124 ec marm  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:34:41am

This isn't a loyalty oath but embedded in the
United States Code.

(a) Designation.— The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b) Conduct During Playing.— During a rendition of the national anthem—

(1) when the flag is displayed—

(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart;
(B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(C) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; and

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

The picture of Obama with hands clasped together while the National Anthem plays.

125 Chuck Pelto  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:34:55am

TO: Ward Cleaver
RE: Bumper Sticker Idea

"Obama/Guevara '08!" -- Ward Cleaver

I LIKE IT!

With a slogan of...

CHEnge We Can Believe In

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Fish...Barrel...You know the rest...]

126 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:35:06am

re: #116 realwest

re: #13 victor_yugo MOST EXCELLENT POST!
BTW - didja know that the new US $1.00 coin omits the phrase "In God We Trust"?!

Not true. This was covered in a thread some time ago. "In God We Trust" appears on the coin, but around the edge (along with E Pluribus Unum) rather than on the face.

127 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:35:27am
128 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:35:55am
And attacking the messenger who points it out is standard political damage control. This has nothing to do with “loyalty oaths” (although Obama will, of course, be forced to take a loyalty oath if he’s sworn in as President), and everything to do with the fact that Obama campaign staffers apparently idealize a terrorist mass murderer.

Ooooh, that's gonna leave a mark.

129 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:36:28am

re: #123 Lizard by the Bay

re: #116 realwest


re: #13 victor_yugo MOST EXCELLENT POST!
BTW - didja know that the new US $1.00 coin omits the phrase "In God We Trust"?!

I thought it was etched into the coin's edge.

It is, along with the date.

130 debutaunt  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:38:34am

re: #62 Ben Hur

He just lost Florida.

Oh, and since all you Lefties think that this all started with Bush, see Chris Jackson:


Abdul-Rauf is perhaps best known for the controversy created when he refused to stand for "the Star-Spangled Banner" before games[1], stating that the flag was a "symbol of oppression" and that the United States had a long "history of tyranny". He said that standing to the national anthem would therefore conflict with his Islamic beliefs. On March 12, 1996 the NBA suspended Abdul-Rauf for his refusal to stand, but the suspension lasted only one game. Two days later, the league was able to work out a compromise with him, whereby he would stand during the playing of the national anthem but could close his eyes and look downward. He usually silently recited a Muslim prayer during this time.

In an apparent publicity stunt gone wrong linked to this controversy, four employees of Denver's KBPI were charged with misdemeanor offenses related to entering a Colorado mosque and playing "the Star-Spangled Banner" on a bugle and trumpet, in a provocative response to Abdul-Rauf's refusal to stand for the national anthem.[2]


1996.

He now plays in the Saudi Arabian league

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

EXCELLENT!

131 neverquit  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:39:04am

This is a growing phenom lately. I have been noticing Che style a lot here on Long Island, part of the "military sheik" style, as they call it here.

A few months back, I was on the Long Island RR with my wife, going into NYC to Bobby Van's (shameless plug) for a strip steak - when a small group of nice college kids from NC sat down near us. Very polite kids, but one of the girls had a hand-bag with Che Guevara on it. I pointed it out to my wife, and snickered, and just about that time, one of the boys in the group said to the girl with the CG pic on it : "you know he was a communist guerrilla fighter don't you?"...Her response was, "No I did not know that, I just thought it looked cool".

So much for education...

132 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:39:09am

re: #123 Lizard by the Bay

re: #116 realwest

re: #13 victor_yugo MOST EXCELLENT POST!
BTW - didja know that the new US $1.00 coin omits the phrase "In God We Trust"?!

I thought it was etched into the coin's edge.

It is, but they've already announced they're going to redesign it to add the phrase to the obverse ("heads") side of the coin. Apparently the stamping on the edge is wearing off. There were some coins accidentally put into circulation without the motto on the edge (they recalled what they could), and they are now collector's items. Saw this on the local TV news recently.

133 Pickle  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:39:53am

Putting up a Che Guevara flag is a statement of disloyalty to the fundamental principles of liberty and individial rights that the United States was formed upon. Therefore, this isn't about swearing a loyalty oath; it's about answering for the act of disloyalty apparently being committed with Obama's blessing.

134 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:40:22am

Comrade Barack will have to spell out his "5 Year Plan" soon if he gets the nod for the Dems. He speaks so well though, that many of the voters will not notice he has plans to the left of Kennedy...McCain is clumsy when it comes to speeches...I cannot believe this guy might win...the most unprepared man to ever get this far.

135 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:40:55am

The putz from Newshoggers (where using women with Down's Syndrome is a brilliant tactic) weighs in:

Hi James.

The Leading Lizard is now saying you're carrying out "damage control for Barack Obama":

If I’m “insinuating” anything, it’s this: when you actively pander to and encourage the radical leftist elements of your party, as the Democrats have been determinedly doing for the past eight years, you’re going to end up with embarrassing scenes like this.

And attacking the messenger who points it out is standard political damage control.

The leading lizard seems to think you're a Dem, simply for disagreeing with him.

Have you considered it? I'm sure they'd be delighted to have you and John Cole can attest that you won't go blind or impotent.

I'm sorry Johnston's being such an ass - but when you actively pander to and encourage the radical rightist elements of your party (e.g. LGF), as the Republicans have been determinedly doing for the past twenty years, you’re going to end up with embarrassing scenes like this.

Regards, C

Posted by Cernig February 12, 2008 12:31 pm Permalink

136 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:41:43am
137 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:42:20am

So not to fear, the $1 coin will indeed represent [pocket] Change We Can Believe In.

138 boazhorribilis  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:43:21am

re: #95 Sharmuta

Ouch!

139 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:44:15am

re: #138 boazhorribilis

Just clicked your icon.

Love it.

I'm a Bean fan.

140 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:44:40am

re: #138 boazhorribilis

I'll be having nightmares for a week because of that pic. Gave me the creeps, it did.

141 CIA Reject  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:45:12am

re: #134 Desert Dog

Comrade Barack will have to spell out his "5 Year Plan" soon if he gets the nod for the Dems.

I hear he is planning a glorious new tractor factory in the Ukraine...

142 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:45:21am

re: #139 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

re: #138 boazhorribilis

Just clicked your icon.

Love it.

I'm a Bean fan.

Blackadder was so much funnier though

143 zombie  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:45:37am

Quick OT --

Does this link work for anyone? I'm getting a time-out "server not available." (It's the Extreme Mohammed page hosted at an off-site location).

144 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:45:47am

re: #142 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #139 The Pulchritudinous Patriot


re: #138 boazhorribilis

Just clicked your icon.

Love it.

I'm a Bean fan.


Blackadder was so much funnier though


Oh, I totally agree.

145 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:46:06am

re: #107 Cognito

Couple of things for Joyner (whomever he is):

1) Yes, indeed, we should swear a loyalty oath to America. No, I'm not saying you've got to wear a pin. I don't. But I do pledge allegiance to this country.

I suppose that makes me a Loyalty Oaf.

2) Forget the pin for now. You're using that to sidestep the real substance of the matter at hand: The Che flag. Does or doesn't Obama support his staff hanging such an image?

Always curious,
- C

Wha...? Huh..!? How? Cog I, I...I... completely agree with every piece of your post.

146 Bobibutu  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:46:23am

re: #143 zombie

Works fine for me.

147 realwest  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:46:28am

re: #137 Occasional Reader LOL!
BTW - got your reply to my comment on the DT and replied at, I think, #878 and would truly appreciate your input.

148 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:46:31am

re: #131 neverquit

This is a growing phenom lately. I have been noticing Che style a lot here on Long Island, part of the "military sheik" style, as they call it here.

A few months back, I was on the Long Island RR with my wife, going into NYC to Bobby Van's (shameless plug) for a strip steak - when a small group of nice college kids from NC sat down near us. Very polite kids, but one of the girls had a hand-bag with Che Guevara on it. I pointed it out to my wife, and snickered, and just about that time, one of the boys in the group said to the girl with the CG pic on it : "you know he was a communist guerrilla fighter don't you?"...Her response was, "No I did not know that, I just thought it looked cool".

So much for education...

I wouldn't call wearing a Che shirt "military chic", but rather "revolutionary chic". There is a big difference. Military chic is a pro-US troop look, Revolutionary chic makes you look like a wannabe Sandinista.

As bad as what you describe at the restaurant, I think the worst I've ever seen was a 13 or 14 year old girl wearing a skin-tight HUSTLER t-shirt. I asked her if she knew what HUSTLER was. She said, "Yeah, they make these cool t-shirts and cutoff shorts everyone is wearing."

149 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:47:01am

re: #141 CIA Reject

re: #134 Desert Dog


Comrade Barack will have to spell out his "5 Year Plan" soon if he gets the nod for the Dems.

I hear he is planning a glorious new tractor factory in the Ukraine...

He did say something about knocking out one of the walls in the Oval Office so he can watch what is going on in the garden

150 Guy_Philly  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:47:04am

I have no problem saying a Pledge of Allegiance. It seems like a very fundamental requirement as a citizen of this great country.

I have no problem with putting my hand on my heart when the National Anthem is sung too.

151 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:47:11am

re: #143 zombie

Quick OT --

Does this link work for anyone? I'm getting a time-out "server not available." (It's the Extreme Mohammed page hosted at an off-site location).

BWAAAHAAAHAAAHAA!

It worked for me.

152 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:47:34am

re: #135 JammieWearingFool

radical rightist elements of your party (e.g. LGF),

This is what I was getting at in my #110 above -- we have been conditioned to believe that "radical" conservatism leads to fascism, when the opposite is true. No society which holds personal liberty, property rights, and individual responsibility as sancrosanct would countenance totalitarianism of any kind. Fascism springs from the denial of individual rights, the glorification of "community" and the "common good" over the individual, and the rejection of liberty in favor of unity, conformity, and order. Those are the political values of the Left and always have been.

153 MrMom  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:47:46am

Good afternoon lizards!

Johnson/uh...ZOMBIE 08

154 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:48:03am

re: #143 zombie

Quick OT --

Does this link work for anyone? I'm getting a time-out "server not available." (It's the Extreme Mohammed page hosted at an off-site location).

It's good for me!

155 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:48:08am
156 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:48:38am

re: #144 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

You're back, I see. Not going to bring up bubble baths again, are you? I don't know that I can take much more ...

157 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:48:42am

There's been an update, Charles:

UPDATE: Johnson responds here arguing that I’m attributing something to him that he doesn’t believe. It seems to me, though, that the implication of juxtaposing Obama’s refusal to wear an American flag pin with supporters displaying a Che flag is plain enough.

The “loyalty oath” goes to the whole notion — implied by Johnson and others quoted above — that Obama is under some obligation to declare that he’s anti-Communist and pro-American. Neither of those should be in doubt.

158 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:48:47am

re: #142 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #139 The Pulchritudinous Patriot


re: #138 boazhorribilis

Just clicked your icon.

Love it.

I'm a Bean fan.


Blackadder was so much funnier though

There were moments in "Blackadder" eps that caused me to literally piss myself laughing.

(Well, using the dumbed-down definition of "literally", anyway.)

One that comes to mind: "OOOAAAHHH unaccustomed as I am to public speaking..."

159 brent  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:48:49am
I don’t mind people wearing pins or putting stickers on their cars as a show of support for their country or their cause

Sure, it makes it easier to key the cars of Republicans.

I think that was my favorite bumpersticker of the last election - something to the effect of "A nice, open-minded liberal keyed my car because he didn't like my bumpersticker"...

Or was it "A progressive thinking liberal slashed my tires on election day ..." ? I forget.

Funny, I bet that no angry mob of college Republicans breaks into this office and throws blood on the poster(s). Must be too close-minded for that kind of free speech.

160 Killer Tomato  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:48:51am

re: #116 realwest

real -

It's printed around the edge of the coin.
Maybe so it'll wear off easily or isn't easily noticed, but it's there. (I have one right here)

161 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:49:25am
162 Bobibutu  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:49:27am

re: #151 Oh no...Sand People!

re: #143 zombie

Quick OT --

Does this link work for anyone? I'm getting a time-out "server not available." (It's the Extreme Mohammed page hosted at an off-site location).

BWAAAHAAAHAAAHAA!

It worked for me.

Whew! There are some out there with some harsh feelings for 'ol Mo.

163 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:49:54am

I can tell you parts of Comrade Barack's Five Year Plan.

1. Fire all US Attorneys so it appears non-politically (read: non-criminally) motivated. Replace with US Attorneys who will not proscute the Machine.
2. End all FBI investigations into the Daley and Blagojevich administrations. (Hey, you gotta protect your puppeteers..er..benefactors.)

That's just steps one and two. If he is elected president, watch who is in his Cabinet. They will be either Machine politicians, or Machine approved.

/You're watching the Chicago Political Mafia attempting to "go national".
//Sorry for my cynicism, I've lived near Chicago for far too long not to be cynical.

164 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:50:21am

re: #157 Noam Sayin'

There's been an update, Charles:


UPDATE: Johnson responds here arguing that I’m attributing something to him that he doesn’t believe. It seems to me, though, that the implication of juxtaposing Obama’s refusal to wear an American flag pin with supporters displaying a Che flag is plain enough.

The “loyalty oath” goes to the whole notion — implied by Johnson and others quoted above — that Obama is under some obligation to declare that he’s anti-Communist and pro-American. Neither of those should be in doubt.

Why shouldn't they be in doubt?

Why can't I ask a question, based on what I see?

Why am I not allowed to question Obama? Is he not a candidate?

Even God tolerates questions, in my experience...why not the ObaMahdi?

165 Cap'n DOC  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:50:53am

So - What part of self-assbiting does this man not comprehend?

166 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:51:07am

re: #157 Noam Sayin'

with supporters displaying a Che flag

Ah, so they're no longer an Obama campaign office... now they're just "supporters". Heh.

167 Dianna  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:51:26am

re: #143 zombie

It worked fine for me.

168 redstateredneck  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:51:28am

re: #148 Lizard by the Bay

As bad as what you describe at the restaurant, I think the worst I've ever seen was a 13 or 14 year old girl wearing a skin-tight HUSTLER t-shirt. I asked her if she knew what HUSTLER was. She said, "Yeah, they make these cool t-shirts and cutoff shorts everyone is wearing."


Yeah, well, my daughter thought (when she was about 13) that Poontang was the name of a little asian girl. Her best friend thought a mofo was a crazy homeless person. I had to sit them down and educate them.

169 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:52:08am

re: #157 Noam Sayin'

Thanks-

The “loyalty oath” goes to the whole notion — implied by Johnson and others quoted above — that Obama is under some obligation to declare that he’s anti-Communist and pro-American. Neither of those should be in doubt.

Uh- he is under obligation- he swore (or affirmed) he'd uphold the Constitution when he became a Senator.

170 Poitiers-Lepanto  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:52:15am

re: #152 Lucius Septimius

we have been conditioned to believe that "radical" conservatism leads to fascism, when the opposite is true. No society which holds personal liberty, property rights, and individual responsibility as sancrosanct would countenance totalitarianism of any kind. Fascism springs from the denial of individual rights, the glorification of "community" and the "common good" over the individual, and the rejection of liberty in favor of unity, conformity, and order. Those are the political values of the Left and always have been.

Just perfect.

Mussolini, founder of the FIRST fascist movement in history, was the EDITOR of the newspaper of the Socialist Party (L'AVANTI).

171 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:52:31am

re: #163 Honorary Yooper

Actually, based on Bush's experience with the "changed sensitivity" towards firing US Attorneys (i.e., ok for everyone but Bush), I would make it SOP for any new POTUS to fire them ALL.

172 sultan_knish  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:52:57am

If a McCain staffer, no matter how low level, did an official news interview with a picture of a top Nazi hanging overhead... does anyone seriously believe that this would not become a major issue?

End of story.

All anyone should be asking for is equality and if a staffer, no matter how supposedly low level, has a prominent Che banner at a time when the campaign knew cameras would be coming in... that means they approved or or at least tolerated it and have to take responsibility for it

173 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:52:58am

re: #166 Occasional Reader

re: #157 Noam Sayin'


with supporters displaying a Che flag

Ah, so they're no longer an Obama campaign office... now they're just "supporters". Heh.

Oh, that excuse was trotted out IMMEDIATELY.

174 TimeQuake  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:53:18am

re: #116 realwest

It is printed on the edge of the coin. I've seen it myself.

Check snopes dot com.

175 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:53:40am

re: #170 Poitiers-Lepanto

re: #152 Lucius Septimius

we have been conditioned to believe that "radical" conservatism leads to fascism, when the opposite is true. No society which holds personal liberty, property rights, and individual responsibility as sancrosanct would countenance totalitarianism of any kind. Fascism springs from the denial of individual rights, the glorification of "community" and the "common good" over the individual, and the rejection of liberty in favor of unity, conformity, and order. Those are the political values of the Left and always have been.

Just perfect.

Mussolini, founder of the FIRST fascist movement in history, was the EDITOR of the newspaper of the Socialist Party (L'AVANTI).

And named for Benito Juarez. Mussolini's dad was a big time radical socialist his own self.

176 MrMom  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:53:44am

re: #143 zombie
For entertainment value...
BEST. LINK. EVAH!

177 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:53:56am

re: #164 OldLineTexan

Even God tolerates questions

I want this on T-shirt below photos of HRC and OHB!

178 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:54:22am

re: #177 goddessoftheclassroom

Snow day?

179 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:54:22am

re: #157 Noam Sayin'

The “loyalty oath” goes to the whole notion — implied by Johnson and others quoted above — that Obama is under some obligation to declare that he’s anti-Communist and pro-American. Neither of those should be in doubt.

And yet, Obama's supporters are openly and brazenly pro-communist. So while I agree with Joyner's statement that the issue should not be in doubt, the sad fact is that it is very much in doubt. Such is the state of the Democrat party today. A decade ago, these freaks would be in the Green Party where they belong. I always thought the radical greenies would eventually siphon off enough craziness from the Dems to move them to the center. I never in a million years saw them actually consuming and running the Dems.

But after the Goracle's defeat (largely attributable to Nader), the writing was on the wall for the Green party.

180 CIA Reject  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:54:27am

re: #171 OldLineTexan

re: #163 Honorary Yooper

Actually, based on Bush's experience with the "changed sensitivity" towards firing US Attorneys (i.e., ok for everyone but Bush), I would make it SOP for any new POTUS to fire them ALL.

Don't they all tender resignations at the end of an administration anyway- so that the incoming President can keep the ones he wants and let the rest go- or am I thinking of something else?

181 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:54:27am

Koskid:


I believe my point was (1+ / 0-)

that an image of Che Guevara is no more or less incendiary than an image of George W Bush, depending on who's viewing.

And I bet you're right about it being taken down now. But it won't be gone from the internet, of course.

"You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think." -- Dorothy Parker, who knew someone like Jeff Gannon

by PDiddie on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 07:55:27 AM PST

182 boazhorribilis  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:54:39am

re: #139 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

So far my best/worst (see Sarmuta 140) contribution to the Lizard community.

183 kmclay  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:55:05am

It worked for me!

184 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:55:40am

re: #178 Lucius Septimius

re: #177 goddessoftheclassroom

Snow day?

Oh, yes! We lose a day of Spring Break to make up for it, though.

185 Old Tanker  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:55:41am

Question,

Would anyone like to take a guess at what would happen if a Confederate flag were pictured at a Mike Huckabee or John McCain campaign office...

186 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:56:11am

re: #184 goddessoftheclassroom

re: #178 Lucius Septimius

re: #177 goddessoftheclassroom

Snow day?

Oh, yes! We lose a day of Spring Break to make up for it, though.

Now THAT'S communistic!

187 bulwrk  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:56:12am

The “loyalty oath” goes to the whole notion — implied by Johnson and others quoted above — that Obama is under some obligation to declare that he’s anti-Communist and pro-American. Neither of those should be in doubt.


well they are and for a damn good reason, he's a democrat.

188 Dianna  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:56:18am

re: #157 Noam Sayin'

That is a remarkably clueless rebuttal.

Here we are, looking at a picture of Che on a Cuban flag, in the campaign office of a candidate for President of the United States. The same candidate does not cover his heart when the National Anthem is played. And his pro-American, anti-communist stances are to be taken as read?

No, this is a legitimate question.

Joyner isn't paying attention.

189 boazhorribilis  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:57:18am

re: #185 Old Tanker

Uh, Sharpton?

190 Izzy Dunne  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:58:20am

Hey folks - look at Maggie Williams' office and the picture on THAT flag.

191 MrMom  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:58:27am

re: #181 NJDhockeyfan

How can you stand it over there? We won't taze ya bro, but we might have to de-louse ya.
/THANKS for doin' the dirty work.

192 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:58:28am
Joyner isn't paying attention.

Sure he is.

He does not want YOU to pay attention is the game

BBL

193 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:58:58am

Yeah, as if oaths mean anything to these people... They break them within the first 5 minutes of taking office.

194 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 9:59:26am

re: #191 MrMom

re: #181 NJDhockeyfan

How can you stand it over there? We won't taze ya bro, but we might have to de-louse ya.
/THANKS for doin' the dirty work.

I had to look. The curiosity was killin' me.

195 BODYGUARDEAGLE  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:00:24am

re: #46 BabbaZee

Charles:


“Loyalty oath?” Where the hell does that come from?

blink
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

In reading the link you provided, I was amazed [Never seen this before]...I was amazed at how much this list resembles the Islamic objectives of taking over America!...
I have printed this out and will make several copies to give to friends who are active in Government, whom I'm quite sure have never seen this part of the Congressional Record...THANKS BABBAZEE !

My comment on the other thread about the flag in Obama's campaign office give my insight into another aspect of this so called 'Movement'

196 Maximu§[deleted]  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:00:30am
197 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:00:34am

re: #192 BabbaZee

Joyner isn't paying attention.

Sure he is.

He does not want YOU to pay attention is the game

BBL

Absolutely.

198 MrMom  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:00:42am

re: #194 NJDhockeyfan

re: #191 MrMom


re: #181 NJDhockeyfan

How can you stand it over there? We won't taze ya bro, but we might have to de-louse ya.
/THANKS for doin' the dirty work.


I had to look. The curiosity was killin' me.

Heh. You're a good man.

199 brent  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:01:56am
...Obama is under some obligation to declare that he’s anti-Communist and pro-American. Neither of those should be in doubt.


That's that point, guy that will not get called to repair any rockets in the near future.

It definitely should not be in doubt. The Che' posters and the refusal to wear a flag pin specifically as a symbol of loyalty, an oath let's say, raises all kinds of doubt to me.

But I think Che' was a thug, and the American flag is kind of a nice symbol; so maybe that colors my worldview differently.

200 LeftJustAintRight  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:02:00am

Obama/Bin Laden 08 !

A vote for Obama is a vote for Osama !

201 newsjunkie_ky  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:02:07am

re: #157 Noam Sayin'

There's been an update, Charles:


UPDATE: Johnson responds here arguing that I’m attributing something to him that he doesn’t believe. It seems to me, though, that the implication of juxtaposing Obama’s refusal to wear an American flag pin with supporters displaying a Che flag is plain enough.

The “loyalty oath” goes to the whole notion — implied by Johnson and others quoted above — that Obama is under some obligation to declare that he’s anti-Communist and pro-American. Neither of those should be in doubt.


Then let him say so.

202 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:02:21am

re: #196 Maximu§

PS: I hope your favorite color is Orange, because we have a jumpsuit alreay fitted for you.

Over the top. And, btw, just the sort of thing Joyner is hoping to see in this thread.

203 Kyle_st  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:02:43am

I don't mean to rain on the parade here, but aren't those office workers identified by Fox 26 as being volunteers unassociated with the Obama campaign?

204 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:03:09am

re: #52 Sharmuta

There's also one for Congress:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God Che.

fify

205 Cognito  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:03:38am

re: #202 Occasional Reader

re: #196 Maximu§

PS: I hope your favorite color is Orange, because we have a jumpsuit alreay fitted for you.

Over the top. And, btw, just the sort of thing Joyner is hoping to see in this thread.

Agreed.

206 Dianna  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:03:52am

re: #192 BabbaZee

It's not working. If nothing else, I'm becoming annoyed.

Campaign offices are not private residences, and what's on the walls should reflect the candidate.

So what does that say?

207 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:03:54am

re: #200 LeftJustAintRight

You say Obama
I say Osama
Obama
Osama

Let's call the whole thing

OFF

208 Poitiers-Lepanto  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:04:21am

Cool shirts ?
With Washington's portrait on and
"preemptive anticommunism" logo...

But of course nobody makes them...

209 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:04:40am

re: #203 Kyle_st

Look who he attracts, then.

210 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:04:46am

re: #203 Kyle_st

If so, then he should immediately and loudly denounce them. Anything less is tacit approval.

211 Fasternu426  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:05:04am
“a substitute for true patriotism”

Hey, you piece of shit, there IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR TRUE PATRIOTISM!

212 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:05:12am

re: #203 Kyle_st

I don't mean to rain on the parade here, but aren't those office workers identified by Fox 26 as being volunteers unassociated with the Obama campaign?

So? Does that make it somehow OK?

213 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:05:55am

I do give Joyner credit for this, though:

He’s right that Che is a terrorist who shouldn’t be honored by decent people. Che worship (or, alternatively, the wearing of Che t-shirts as a statement without the slightest clue of who he was) seems to be a phase that certain left-leaning activists go through in their youth; it generally passes. Driscoll’s characterization of it as “juvenilia” is spot on.

214 newsjunkie_ky  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:06:05am

re: #185 Old Tanker

Question,

Would anyone like to take a guess at what would happen if a Confederate flag were pictured at a Mike Huckabee or John McCain campaign office...


Excellent point.

215 bulwrk  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:06:28am

re: #203 Kyle_st

Its his campaign office in Houston

216 jcm  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:06:32am

This is rich, every excuse in the book for the Che flag. Then drags RP into the mix to show how bad the (R) is, as if RP is leading for the nomination.

217 newsjunkie_ky  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:06:47am

re: #185 Old Tanker

Question,

Would anyone like to take a guess at what would happen if a Confederate flag were pictured at a Mike Huckabee or John McCain campaign office...

Remember what they did to Allen in VA?

218 Old Tanker  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:06:59am

re: #189 boazhorribilis

re: #185 Old Tanker

Uh, Sharpton?

Now you got me hearing the Rush parodies of the justice brothers with Sharpton on the megaphone!

219 CIA Reject  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:06:59am

re: #209 Ojoe

re: #203 Kyle_st

Look who he attracts, then.

Absolutely!

"Where there's flies there's sh*t!"

220 Fasternu426  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:07:07am

Let's se,
Berkley City Government hate the Marines.
Toledo Mayor hate Marines.
Obama Office with a Cuban-Che Gueverra flag on the wall.

What patriotism is there to question?

221 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:07:27am

re: #213 Occasional Reader

I do give Joyner credit for this, though:


He’s right that Che is a terrorist who shouldn’t be honored by decent people. Che worship (or, alternatively, the wearing of Che t-shirts as a statement without the slightest clue of who he was) seems to be a phase that certain left-leaning activists go through in their youth; it generally passes. Driscoll’s characterization of it as “juvenilia” is spot on.

(Of course, the "juvenile" in the photo sitting at the desk under the Cuba/Che flag appears to be in her mid-40s)

222 Tenacious  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:07:35am

I hope everyone enjoyed this illustration of liberal logic. We're going to get more of it in the months to come. EXPOSE IT.

223 Kyle_st  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:07:42am

re: #212 rawmuse

No, I'm not saying that. But suppose some "volunteer" campaign helpers setup shop and displayed KKK Grand Dragon posters as they worked on the Republican contender's campaign?

All I'm asking is, what's the real deal here?

224 neverquit  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:07:59am

Logic Of The Left:

Questioning and attacking the Bush Admin over Iraq, The War on Terrorism, etc. - is indeed a greater sign of Patriotism than wearing and supporting the Flag of the USA.

Questioning and attacking the Obama Campaign for not displaying a US Flag Pin, or covering his heart during the Nat'l Anthem, or for questioning the Obama Campaign HQ's for displaying a symbol of the Communist Dictatorship in Cuba is totally out of line and unacceptable.

These are the rules...

;)

225 Maximu§  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:08:34am

Occasional Reader

re: #196 Maximu§

PS: I hope your favorite color is Orange, because we have a jumpsuit already fitted for you.

Over the top. And, btw, just the sort of thing Joyner is hoping to see in this thread.

Over the top? No thats right on target.

226 boazhorribilis  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:08:39am

re: #218 Old Tanker

Go Bro!

227 jcm  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:08:54am

What is telling is the for the East Coast the news cycle is half a day old and the Obama campaign has not made a statement regarding the flags.

The silence is deafening and revealing.

228 Cognito  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:08:57am

re: #203 Kyle_st

I don't mean to rain on the parade here, but aren't those office workers identified by Fox 26 as being volunteers unassociated with the Obama campaign?

They describe it as an Obama office opened by volunteers, and expected to be run by paid staffers by the end of the week.

(Something tells me the flags ain't up any more.)

229 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:09:20am

re: #206 Dianna

I did not mean to reference you personally with the statement, that was a royal "you" as in "the people"
I would fully expect you personally to be resistant to menticide.

230 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:09:24am
231 musicman  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:09:34am

re: #116 realwest

re: #13 victor_yugo MOST EXCELLENT POST!
BTW - didja know that the new US $1.00 coin omits the phrase "In God We Trust"?!

No it doesn't it is on the edge of the coin. Check it out here.

232 Charles  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:09:55am

So I guess Joyner's response to my post is ... "yes, you were implying that."

OK. No point in answering that, really. It's a childish argument.

233 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:10:01am

re: #223 Kyle_st

That candidate would be nailed to the wall by the very same deniers that are excusing the Che gaff. The KOS kids would be melting down the internet line coming out of Kos' Mom's basement with calls for that said Candidates head...you know it and I know it...Hypocrisy is only one of the services they offer

234 Old Tanker  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:10:24am

re: #217 newsjunkie_ky

Remember what they did to Allen in VA?

Are you refering to "Macaca" or did some suporter get caught with a Confederate flag?

235 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:11:09am

re: #223 Kyle_st

That would be equally abhorrent.

236 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:11:28am

re: #185 Old Tanker

Question,

Would anyone like to take a guess at what would happen if a Confederate flag were pictured at a Mike Huckabee or John McCain campaign office...

Some already think we'd somehow be okay with that:

I supposed if it were a Confederate flag it would have been okay.
Posted by DC Loser

237 Kenneth  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:11:32am
Obama will, of course, be forced to take a loyalty oath if he’s sworn in as President

Will his hand be on a Bible or a Koran?

238 xtraBilly  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:12:26am

re: #221 Occasional Reader

(Of course, the "juvenile" in the photo sitting at the desk under the Cuba/Che flag appears to be in her mid-40s)

"junvenile" knows no age limit. Every Wednesday we have the "Grannies for Peace" lined up outside Rockerffeller Center .

239 perlster  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:12:47am
“Barack Obama won’t wear an American flag on his lapel, but on the wall of his Houston campaign office: a Cuban flag with a picture of Communist mass murderer Che Guevara.”

Seems some folks need a vocabulary lesson.
There are no insinuations there, just facts.

240 Kyle_st  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:12:49am

re: #215 bulwrk

re: #203 Kyle_st

Its his campaign office in Houston

But Fox 26 says this: "The office featured in this video is funded by volunteers of the Barack Obama Campaign and is not an official headquarters for his campaign."

That doesnt' sound like his "campaign office in Houston"

241 Old Tanker  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:13:23am

re: #226 boazhorribilis

Did you ever hear the one where Al is outside Obama's campaign office shouting "Yo Mama" jokes through the megaphone? One of the funniest paradies I've ever heard on his show...

242 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:13:47am

re: #240 Kyle_st

re: #215 bulwrk

re: #203 Kyle_st

Its his campaign office in Houston

But Fox 26 says this: "The office featured in this video is funded by volunteers of the Barack Obama Campaign and is not an official headquarters for his campaign."

That doesnt' sound like his "campaign office in Houston"

And that somehow makes it okay that they've got the place decked out with Che paraphernalia?

243 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:14:18am

re: #234 Old Tanker

re: #217 newsjunkie_ky


Remember what they did to Allen in VA?

Are you refering to "Macaca" or did some suporter get caught with a Confederate flag?

I think that was "macaca". I thought macaca referred to something fecal, not racial, when I first heard it.

244 Arbalest  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:15:10am

From James Joyner’s writing:

But, surely, Obama doesn’t need to publicly weigh in on the decorating choices of every low level staffer?


But look carefully at the picture that even Joyner posts: note the

- desk size:- large; not an average worker’s desk
- style:- nice dark wood or wood veneer, instead of formica, plastic, etc.
- location:- a wall (and credenza) are behind it
- the position of the 2 visitors(?):- standing, awaiting orders
- the small grey object behind the seated staffer’s head:- the head cushion of an executive chair?

This is a picture of an office (and the video suggests this).

Is Obama’s campaign so egalitarian that all staffers rate an office, no matter how lowly?

Or is this staffer actually a relatively important one?

The picture and video seem clear.


But there is a second picture (available 4 threads down on LGF).

The table looks to be a small folding table, the door in the background a roll-up metal door. Very proletarian.

Perhaps this is the desk of an Obama Campaign low-level staffer; small, low cost, located in an area with a roll-up metal door.

But roll-up metal doors are usually installed in large open areas, like garages and warehouses, where there is room for many people. Even more proletarian.

Doubtless, the flag in the second picture is visible to many. Perhaps as visible as an “Obama for President” poster?

Apparently, no one in the Obama campaign sees it as unusual. Why not?

Why are Cuban flags and pictures of Che (~Don’t shoot. I’m Che Guevara, worth more to you alive than dead~ paraphrasing the last free words spoken by a man with a fully loaded and unfired gun in his holster) Guevara displayed by more than one member of a US Presedentiao Campaign?

Why does Joyner evade asking or answering these questions directly?

For some reason Joyner runs off to chase the "loyalty oath" red herring.

But to be President of the United States (or just about any other elected US official), one must swear an oath; this is not news.

Who is outraged, and why?

Joyner’s outrage against these criticisms of the Obama campaign and Obama's personal and public behavior is intellectually dishonest.

245 zombie  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:15:13am

re: #146 Bobibutu

re: #143 zombie

Works fine for me.

Ah, just started working for me as well. Thanks.

For a while there, it was offline.

246 Old Tanker  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:15:22am

re: #236 Sharmuta

re: #185 Old Tanker

Question,

Would anyone like to take a guess at what would happen if a Confederate flag were pictured at a Mike Huckabee or John McCain campaign office...

Some already think we'd somehow be okay with that:

I supposed if it were a Confederate flag it would have been okay.
Posted by DC Loser

Great, DC Loser...yep, that pretty much sums it up doesn't it.

247 newsjunkie_ky  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:15:45am

re: #234 Old Tanker

re: #217 newsjunkie_ky


Remember what they did to Allen in VA?

Are you refering to "Macaca" or did some suporter get caught with a Confederate flag?


See here.
[Link: www.google.com...]

248 MrMom  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:15:57am

re: #232 Charles

So I guess Joyner's response to my post is ... "yes, you were implying that."

OK. No point in answering that, really. It's a childish argument.

That's right Charles. You must be the bigger lizard here.
/Heh.

249 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:15:58am

re: #195 BODYGUARDEAGLE

THANKS BABBAZEE !



Most welcome.

250 bulwrk  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:16:34am

re: #240 Kyle_st

re: #215 bulwrk

re: #203 Kyle_st

Its his campaign office in Houston

But Fox 26 says this: "The office featured in this video is funded by volunteers of the Barack Obama Campaign and is not an official headquarters for his campaign."

That doesnt' sound like his "campaign office in Houston"

Sounds like the Ron Paul news letter defense?

251 Old Tanker  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:16:38am

re: #243 Honorary Yooper

macaca, yocaca, everybodycaca!

252 brakes  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:16:56am

Has everyone seen this yet? [Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

COPENHAGEN, Denmark - Danish police said Tuesday they have arrested three people suspected of plotting to kill one of the 12 cartoonists behind the Prophet Muhammad drawings that sparked a deadly uproar in the Muslim world two years ago.

253 MrMom  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:17:16am

re: #236 Sharmuta

re: #185 Old Tanker


Question,

Would anyone like to take a guess at what would happen if a Confederate flag were pictured at a Mike Huckabee or John McCain campaign office...


Some already think we'd somehow be okay with that:

I supposed if it were a Confederate flag it would have been okay.
Posted by DC Loser

Heh. Nice catch Shar.

254 EE  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:17:30am

For Obama's campaign office people to hang flags of the arch-murderer Che Guevara in Obama's campaign office is inexcusable. It says to the world that Obama is pandering to and sucking up to the terrorist-supporting radical extremists that worship Che Guevara.

If Obama seriously wants to carry out some damage control he should not blast the messengers who are relating the facts, but do something to show that he is definitely not courting the terrorist-supporting Che worshipers.
(1) Fire the person who suggested hanging the Che flags.
(2) Fire the persons in that office who worked under those flags and did not object to them.
(3) He should personally visit that office and publicly take down those flags and burn them.

If he did that, there would be no reason for anybody to even consider that he is pandering to the terrorist-supporting radical Left extremists. He should do that and leave absolutely no doubt about this. If he does less, he will leave me wondering if he is just as guilty as Ron Paul is in seeking the support of extremists (of a different kind, but extremists no less).

255 Charles  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:17:32am

re: #240 Kyle_st

re: #215 bulwrk

re: #203 Kyle_st

Its his campaign office in Houston

But Fox 26 says this: "The office featured in this video is funded by volunteers of the Barack Obama Campaign and is not an official headquarters for his campaign."

That doesnt' sound like his "campaign office in Houston"

The video states very clearly: "Volunteers opened two new offices for the Obama campaign in Houston. Paid staffers for the campaign are expected to occupy the offices by the end of the week."

That statement at Fox 26 looks like another feeble attempt at damage control.

256 Kenneth  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:18:33am

Another fake atrocity?

U.S. forces find 13 bodies in Iraq mass grave

...includes this paragraph,

Last week a grave containing 50 bodies was found in an area near Samarra, 100 km north of Baghdad while the bodies of around 20 men, women and children were found in December in a grave near the former insurgent stronghold of Falluja.

...each of which have been proven false reports. Reuters is spinning AQ propaganda. Again.


As yet, there is no report of this alleged find at Multi-National Forces-Iraq, the official website of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

257 Charles  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:19:07am

Notice that in both of the videos I linked, the Fox 26 people DID NOT EVEN NOTICE Che Guevara. This flap must have been quite a shock to them.

258 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:19:20am

re: #220 Fasternu426

Let's se,
Berkley City Government hate the Marines.
Toledo Mayor hate Marines.
Obama Office with a Cuban-Che Gueverra flag on the wall.

What patriotism is there to question?

Pretty soon, public displays of true Patriotism will be considered "inciting violence" and will make patriots subject to arrest. maybe Obama can get the American flag banned as a symbol of "oppression" and make it an anathema like the confederate flag once he gets into office. Our new flag will be the gay rainbow flag. Or perhaps the African American Separatist flag. Or simply, the no-borders no-countries globe flag (very popular in Marin County, which considers itself above being in America).

259 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:19:55am

re: #257 Charles

lol

260 beens21  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:20:01am

re: #79 Carl B

On a related note, anyone have reliable information on Obama's background and family, other than what originated from his campaign staff? Even though he is apparently now Christian, half his extended family is presumably muslim. Does he have siblings who have chosen to follow their father's religion? Is the American muslim community claiming him as one of their own?

[Link: www.freedomsenemies.com...] this is from the links, the best summary of OB's life and views I've read. Some scary stuff that should be read by everyone.

261 GreenDroll  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:20:09am

That a Democratic Party candidates spokesman would lead with an Ad hominem attack rather than address criticism of what looks like a legitimate issue is not surprising. Admiration of Ché as an agent of change is likely the spin you will hear next after the Dems do a little research into who the guy was. The 'fact' that he was killed by the CIA is enough to make him a hero in the eyes of the left.
If a McCain headquarters was to have a poster of Mussolini on the wall (in the spirit of keeping the trains running on time) the left would go berserk.

262 Old Tanker  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:20:10am

re: #247 newsjunkie_ky

I rest my case! Thanks for the info.

263 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:20:38am

OT- heard on the radio this morning (the day of the VA primary)
McCain attack ad, sponsored by Planned Parenthood.

Announcer: Think you know which candidate for president wants to outlaw abortion and overturn Roe v. Wade? John McCain, not Mike Huckabee, and those are his real views. Even though John McCain knows what’s at risk, he wants abortion to be illegal again, just like it used to be... When you vote, always vote pro-choice and remember John McCain’s real talk..

Are they trying to help Huck or aiming for November?

264 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:22:35am

re: #254 EE

But he doesn't want to alienate the Commie vote, which he covets.

265 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:23:03am

The official Communist Party of North America endorsed Al Gore in 2000. The site is now down, but I noted it at the time.

267 cosmo  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:23:41am

Obama will have to take a loyalty oath, that's true. What is still to be determined, however, is whether he'll try to go Keith Ellison and choose the book upon which he'll place his left right hand.

Some possible Obookma candidates:

1) Guerrilla Warfare, by Ernesto Guevara
2) Manifesto, by Ernesto Guevara
3) Che Guevara Reader--Writings on Politics and Revolution, by Ernesto Guevara and David Deutschmann
4) Horton Hears a Who, by Theodor Seuss Geisel
5) Mr. Obama Brown Can Moo, Can You?, by Theodor Seuss Geisel

This tiger's stripes are going to be completely exposed by the GOP...they're just waiting in the tall grass. When they are exposed, Obama will be just another junior senator with big dreams who's exposed as the empty-suit-master-of-platitudes-marxist-mao-bag-we arer that he is.

268 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:24:57am

re: #257 Charles

Notice that in both of the videos I linked, the Fox 26 people DID NOT EVEN NOTICE Che Guevara. This flap must have been quite a shock to them.

Given the level of education of most TV news ferrets, I'd be willing to bet they don't know who Che Guevara is.

270 newsjunkie_ky  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:25:25am

re: #257 Charles

Notice that in both of the videos I linked, the Fox 26 people DID NOT EVEN NOTICE Che Guevara. This flap must have been quite a shock to them.

they don't know who he was. typical journalist.

271 cosmo  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:25:48am

re: #253 MrMom

Actually, you could probably find a Mexican flag in a McCain office. I'll check my archives...

272 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:26:41am

We are watching the death throes of the Democratic Party IMHO.


Happy Lincoln's Birthday.

273 abolitionist  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:27:23am

re: #111 BabbaZee

re: #98 taxfreekiller

It is standard KGB to fund both sides BTW

That would be consistent with goal #15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

274 cosmo  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:27:23am

re: #268 Lucius Septimius

Of course they know who he is. He's that cool-looking fellow on all the t-shirts and knapsacks they would see as undergraduates while walking through the NYU bookstore.

275 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:27:34am

In a recent interview, Obama called his mother "the dominant figure in my formative years. . . . The values she taught me continue to be my touchstone when it comes to how I go about the world of politics."
276 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:28:32am

re: #273 abolitionist


A cookie for you. lol

277 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:29:03am

re: #271 cosmo

I have this flag in my office. It shows that I am loyal to beer.

278 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:29:51am

re: #276 BabbaZee

re: #273 abolitionist


A cookie for you. lol

Cocktails for two?

279 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:29:58am
280 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:30:18am

re: #278 Lucius Septimius

Ohhohohoho lol

281 BODYGUARDEAGLE  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:30:26am

re: #249 BabbaZee

re: #195 BODYGUARDEAGLE

THANKS BABBAZEE !



Most welcome.

I'm always quick to check the links you provide, mostly because IF I'm not laughing my ass off, I'm going 'well how kool'! heh heh...

282 MrMom  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:30:48am

re: #266 BabbaZee
{ {Babba} } Just missed ya this morning. Left this
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
For ya on the Early morning open. You were on a roll!

283 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:30:50am

re: #279 buzzsawmonkey

It will gain him more votes.

He is the ultimate stalking horse

284 pingjockey  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:31:12am

Anyone running for office in this country, regardless of party who would have a flag of a mass murderer up in their HQ is totally unfit for ANY office.

285 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:31:24am

re: #282 MrMom

I saw that and had answered you there downthread

286 cosmo  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:31:42am

re: #277 Lucius Septimius

My neighbor has this flag on their house, which shows that I want to punch them for degrading the beauty of the neighborhood. Plus it's a flagrant violation of the laws of taste.

287 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:32:17am
288 MrMom  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:32:25am

re: #285 BabbaZee

Hah! Shoulda guessed! Gonna go look...

289 Charles  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:33:21am

Have the usual LGF-hating morons started showing up in Joyner's comments yet?

290 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:33:21am
291 pingjockey  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:33:42am

re: #288 MrMom
Clicked on your avatar, Now there was a dude who took care of invasions!

292 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:33:45am

re: #142 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

BAAALLL-DRICK!

293 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:34:31am

re: #289 Charles

Have the usual LGF-hating morons started showing up in Joyner's comments yet?

Poke 'em with a sitck!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

294 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:34:54am

re: #290 buzzsawmonkey

Of course, of course

295 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:35:00am

re: #283 BabbaZee

re: #279 buzzsawmonkey

It will gain him more votes.

He is the ultimate stalking horse

Sorta like this?

296 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:35:36am

re: #291 pingjockey

re: #288 MrMom
Clicked on your avatar, Now there was a dude who took care of invasions!

Yes, rather than following polls, he used poles.

297 alegrias  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:36:43am

Hope everyone here is aware that Che's pal Fidel Castro is tangling with John McCain, saying McCain is lying about Castro's Cuba.

McCain recently reminded his Florida audiences that Castro sent Cubans to North Vietnam where US POWs were interrogated by nasty Cuban inquisitors.
McCain asserts Cubans tortured and killed fellow American POWs in Vietnam.
McCain looks forward to bringing to justice (when Cuba is free) those Cuban interrogators who tortured & killed POWs in Vietnam.

298 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:36:53am

re: #281 BODYGUARDEAGLE

[aww shuckums]
thanks again

299 Lucius Septimius  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:38:06am

re: #286 cosmo

My sister bought me those sorts of flags when we bought our house. They have all disappeared. Instead I fly this one.

300 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:39:22am
301 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:39:32am

Minnersville vs Gobitis (1940) upheld a requirement that students salute the flag in a challenge mounted on First Amendment grounds by some of the local Jehovah's Witnesses. This was somewhat overturned in West Virginia v Barnette (1943). In today's legal environment (to the probable horror of our founders), the use of God in the oath could probably be struck on First Amendment grounds. Pretty soon if we keep it up, all we will have to do is to have the Senator say "It all depends on what the meaning of is is" and they will be seated. I get more sympathetic to the anti-Federalist position on the Constitution the more I see the current one in action.

302 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:40:12am

re: #277 Lucius Septimius

re: #271 cosmo

I have this flag in my office. It shows that I am loyal to beer.

And BMW?

I saw a quote recently on NGC, during their show on the BMW plant in Vance, Alabama, where X5s and Z4s are built, where a BMW executive stated that the blue-and-white motif on the BMW logo (roundel) represents not a spinning propeller from BMW's aircraft engine heritage (which I was always taught), but the colors on the Bavarian state flag.

303 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:40:24am

re: #286 cosmo

re: #277 Lucius Septimius

My neighbor has this flag on their house, which shows that I want to punch them for degrading the beauty of the neighborhood. Plus it's a flagrant violation of the laws of taste.

It's the flag equivalent of plastic pink flamingos on the lawn.

304 AZDave  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:40:30am

re: #7 zombie

Boy, get ready for a nonstop barrage of this for the next 8 months:

If you criticize Obama's supporters for being communist-sympathizers, you are a "McCarthyite" who demands "loyalty oaths."

If you don't support Obama for any reason, you are a "racist" who "can't bear the thought of a black man in charge."

If you don't support Hillary, you are a "sexist" who is "afraid of female power."

Settle in. It will be a long ride.

Boy, ain't that the truth!

305 Kyle_st  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:40:47am

re: #255 Charles

Thanks, I didn't catch that. Appreciated!

306 MrMom  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:41:16am

re: #291 pingjockey

re: #288 MrMom
Clicked on your avatar, Now there was a dude who took care of invasions!


Especially from "Asians". We better all buckle up, cause it's starting again.

307 IPLaw  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:41:41am

Commie kryptonite:

Viva La Reagan Revolucion T-Shirt: [Link: www.thoseshirts.com...]

So the question is, if Obama wore this shirt in a pool, would he sink to the bottom?

308 loppyd  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:42:31am

Has this been reported by the MSM at all?

I'm not being coy - I really don't know!

309 cosmo  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:43:21am

re: #303 Lizard by the Bay

Amen. Either that or the "car up on blocks."

310 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:43:39am
311 Cognito  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:43:59am

Charles,

Here's a reaction from Obama's camp, at The National Review.

312 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:44:38am

re: #299 Lucius Septimius

re: #286 cosmo

My sister bought me those sorts of flags when we bought our house. They have all disappeared. Instead I fly this one.

A friend of ours flies on holidays a 48-star flag that was draped on the casket of his uncle, who parachuted out of a burning B-17 during WWII. According to survivors, he climbed out of the blown-away nose (he was either the navigator or bombardier, I can't remember which), then his parachute caught fire after opening (from the burning plane), and he plummeted to the ground.

313 jcm  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:44:41am

re: #308 loppyd

Has this been reported by the MSM at all?

I'm not being coy - I really don't know!

Not yet. Political journals are picking it up on both sides.

314 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:47:46am

re: #300 buzzsawmonkey

re: #295 Lucius Septimius

re: #283 BabbaZee

re: #279 buzzsawmonkey

It will gain him more votes.

He is the ultimate stalking horse

Sorta like this?

I assume that the "pale horse, pale rider" reference alludes to Obama being of mixed race, and initially considered "not black enough" by many black voters and power brokers. Natually, mentioning such things will be decried as "racism"--though my bringing it up is intended as sarcasm.

I thought it meant a stalking horse for Stan.

315 Kenneth  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:49:05am

re: #257 Charles

They didn't notice Che because his face has become a form of wallpaper. Journalists are more than used to seeing his face.

316 loppyd  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:49:21am

re: #289 Charles

Have the usual LGF-hating morons started showing up in Joyner's comments yet?

According to "Cernig",you are the Leading Lizard and an ass.

His words, not mine!

317 Squirrelguy  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:49:28am

re: #82 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

re: #61 Macker


re: #54 BabbaZee

re: #50 Macker

What a great icon you have


From History of the World, Part II!

Jews In Space!

May the Schwartz be with you!
Leader of Senate: All fellow members of the US senate hear me. Shall we continue to build palace after palace for the rich? Or shall we aspire to a more noble purpose and build decent housing for the poor? How does the senate vote?
Entire Senate: FUCK THE POOR!

318 Cygnus  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:49:33am

re: #14 neoconundrum

Charles Johnson for President!

Charles, I'm going to write you in as an Independent!

Zombie for President!

319 cosmo  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:50:18am

re: #312 Ward Cleaver


That's a tough call whether to display that outside (and risk degrading it via weather or hooligans) or to put it up inside the house. Either way, it ought to be on display.

I salute him and his family HEARTILY.

320 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:50:56am

re: #312 Ward Cleaver

It had 48 stars? Who knew that?

/would say the people in the Obama office picture, probably.

321 BODYGUARDEAGLE  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:52:05am

re: #298 BabbaZee

re: #281 BODYGUARDEAGLE

[aww shuckums]
thanks again

Most Welcome...
(as I bend forward and remove my Blackwater Security baseball cap)
in respect.

322 strandedsf  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:52:26am

Go, Charles!

The main trouble with Obama -- and Hillary, to a lesser extent -- is the degree to which the media has so far absolutely REFUSED to call him on his bullshit or the bullshit of his true believers. He has refused to be engaged on any serious subject whatsoever, and the media has refused to engage him.

If it takes the Che controversy to smoke him out, then so be it. I'm glad his surrogates are attacking Charles, because he is more than a match for any of them.

323 average_guy  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:54:08am

BO is a socialist, and all you have to do is check his US Senate voting record to confirm that as it reflects socialist tendencies in a very strong way. That the BO campaign has staff that are idolizing communists like Che and are proud of it, or maybe even are full-fledged communists and proud of it, should not be a surprise. If they did not have staffers that were of that ilk then that would be a surprise.

324 Chuck Pelto  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:54:15am

TO: Charles Johnson
RE: Say What?!?!?

""Have the usual LGF-hating morons started showing up in Joyner's comments yet?" -- Charles Johnson

The 'good doctor' Joyner has a coments section?

Where! Where!

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[What about an assailant armed with a pineapple?]

325 pingjockey  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:54:36am

Hey all you folks that have avatars my computer isn't showing them, just footballs?

326 bulwrk  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:55:04am

From the comment section over at otb

What did Che Guevara do to classify his as a terrorist? I'm unaware of him engaging in any acts of violence that were aimed at terrorizing a population. Instead, it seems that he engaged in pretty conventional warfare and insurrection.

What he did in terms of tactics isn't really any different from any insurrectionists have done, including George Washington and all of those who fought under him...

Now that doesn't mean that the politics and policies of Che and Washington are interchangeable.
Posted by Scott Swank | February 12, 2008 | 11:55 am | Permalink

327 pingjockey  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:55:08am

oops! now it is working, WTF?

328 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:55:55am

re: #325 pingjockey

Check your user settings. Click on Manage Your Account on the top left side of the page. There is a check mark you need to engage to see avatars.

329 nyc redneck  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:57:09am

hussein and his cohorts w/ their che-cuban flag and all the naivety and childish attention-seeking other stunts. (refusing to salute the american flag, refusing to wear a an american flag pin) really make me think that this behavior is more like that of high school kids running for student council. it's frightening to realize that these are adults who want to direct the future of our country. it's frightening to realize that hussein is not a 17 yr. old kid but a 48 yr. old man who wants to be potus. how did it get so ridiculous in america. these fools aren't fit to serve in any level of gov't.

330 pingjockey  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:57:10am

see my post #327. The 14 yr old got on here and has been to myspace and downloading music. Thank God no Pr0n.

331 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:57:28am

re: #326 bulwrk

From the comment section over at otb

What did Che Guevara do to classify his as a terrorist? I'm unaware of him engaging in any acts of violence that were aimed at terrorizing a population. Instead, it seems that he engaged in pretty conventional warfare and insurrection.

What he did in terms of tactics isn't really any different from any insurrectionists have done, including George Washington and all of those who fought under him...

Now that doesn't mean that the politics and policies of Che and Washington are interchangeable.
Posted by Scott Swank | February 12, 2008 | 11:55 am | Permalink

Honestly, how is one to respond?

332 cosmo  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:58:17am

All this reminds me of a news broadcast out of Garden Grove, CA a few years back where a man had a picture of Ho Chi Minh up in his video store. For context, know that Garden Grove has an unusually large concentration of Vietnamese residents.

Anyway, this guy's store was picketed by folks hostile to Ho Chi Minh and those who would revere him. The camerman focused in on this guy who had a red karate-kid headband on and screamed:

"You like Vietnam, you go back Vietnam!"

So, to Sen. Obama's staffers in Houston:

"You like Cuba, you go back Cuba!"
Don't bring Cuba to us. That would make you, well, Michael Moore.

333 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:58:23am

re: #326 bulwrk

Idiots. It's not about tactics. It's about what you fight for.

334 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:58:23am
(as I bend forward and remove my Blackwater Security baseball cap)



{bodyguardeagle}

WLGF out for now

335 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:58:26am
336 Cognito  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:59:17am

re: #321 BODYGUARDEAGLE

(as I bend forward and remove my Blackwater Security baseball cap)
in respect.

Just curious: Do you work for Blackwater?

337 cosmo  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 10:59:17am

re: #327 pingjockey

Iz in ur base killin all ur avatarz

338 Biff  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:00:04am

What are we going to do if Obama wins and following the official vote of the electoral college declares that he is a muslim and takes the oath on the quran? What would happen? What could we do?

339 pingjockey  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:00:04am

re: #331 Creeping Eruption

You can't. The mind that wrote that shit is lost, lost, lost in the abyssal depths of moral relevance, hating the USA, his parents, and anything else that would remind his peanut brain he lives in the best country on earth. We aren't perfect but we try harder than anyone else.

340 BODYGUARDEAGLE  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:00:58am

re: #334 BabbaZee

(as I bend forward and remove my Blackwater Security baseball cap)



{bodyguardeagle}

WLGF out for now

Wow...That was great! Thanks...Over and Out.

341 maddogg  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:01:05am

It's all about "CHANGE"! and how to get it without working.

342 pingjockey  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:01:45am

re: #337 cosmo
it be workin now, ur my base iz not good enuf.

343 CIA Reject  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:03:39am

re: #320 Ojoe

re: #312 Ward Cleaver

It had 48 stars? Who knew that?

/would say the people in the Obama office picture, probably.

When I was little my grandfather (a WW1 vet) and my father (a WWII vet) taught me how to fold an American flag and TOLD (didn't demonstrate) me that if I did it properly there should be only THREE stars showing.

I tried again and again (as they both looked on smiling) but I could never get it right.

Finally my grandmother told me that you should only be able to see three stars if you're folding a 48 STAR flag...

344 Terp Mole  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:04:38am
re: #289 Charles Have the usual LGF-hating morons started showing up in Joyner's comments yet?

Joyner replies to you himself in his update;

UPDATE: Johnson responds here arguing that I’m attributing something to him that he doesn’t believe. It seems to me, though, that the implication of juxtaposing Obama’s refusal to wear an American flag pin with supporters displaying a Che flag is plain enough.

The “loyalty oath” goes to the whole notion — implied by Johnson and others quoted above — that Obama is under some obligation to declare that he’s anti-Communist and pro-American. Neither of those should be in doubt.

As to my “rushing to do damage control for Barack Obama,” regular readers can decide for themselves on that one. New readers can feel free to check through my Barack Obama archives.

345 pingjockey  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:05:19am

re: #343 CIA Reject

Bet they had a good laugh! Plus you learned how to fold the flag properly.

346 nyc redneck  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:06:15am

re: #338 Biff

What are we going to do if Obama wins and following the official vote of the electoral college declares that he is a muslim and takes the oath on the quran? What would happen? What could we do?

can we impeach him before he's even sworn in

347 BODYGUARDEAGLE  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:08:06am

re: #336 Cognito

re: #321 BODYGUARDEAGLE

(as I bend forward and remove my Blackwater Security baseball cap)
in respect.

Just curious: Do you work for Blackwater?

Not directly, not many people do...contract work is sporadic. Now days, Your resume just about has to include minimum 8 years direct mil.service in spec-ops or have former Navy SEAL. for any outside CONUS work, in a combat zone, other than that work inside CONUS is sporadic as a 'Personal Protection Specialist' under Contract with them. That is understandable considering the heat and hammering we have taken at the hands of the Leftist news Media and such, due to the negative and false propaganda out there.

348 pingjockey  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:08:20am

re: #344 Terp Mole

Joyner doesn't get it. With the whole Che' thing it does call his loyalty into account. Even George McGovern wouldn't have displayed a NVA flag even though a lot of mush heads that supported him ran around waving them.

349 CIA Reject  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:09:09am

re: #345 pingjockey

re: #343 CIA Reject

Bet they had a good laugh! Plus you learned how to fold the flag properly.

Yes, and frankly I'm flabbergasted at how rare a skill that is these days- amongst civilians anyway...

350 Biff  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:09:38am

Doubt it. Like Pelosi would care? It would make a hell of a 24 season.

re: #346 nyc redneck

re: #338 Biff


What are we going to do if Obama wins and following the official vote of the electoral college declares that he is a muslim and takes the oath on the quran? What would happen? What could we do?

can we impeach him before he's even sworn in
351 pingjockey  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:11:57am

re: #349 CIA Reject

I do a class twice a year at my sons elementary school. The kids really like it. Since I'm over here on the eastside of the Cascades, there isn't any PC nonsense. Cub scouts, church, and a couple of other organizations the left doesn't like use the school, and get this, it is Robert E. Lee elementary.

352 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:13:18am
353 CIA Reject  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:14:35am

re: #351 pingjockey

God bless you - I know an old soldier and an old sailor who would approve very highly...

354 EE  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:16:05am

Che and his buddy Fidel Castro produced change. Is that the kind of "change" that Obama has in mind? I don't really know what kind of change he is pushing for.
Adolf Hitler called for "change". In fact, he called for a new world order, and it's hard to call for more change than that. There is change, and there is change; which "change" does Obama want?
Marx and Lenin called for "change", and Stalin produced change, as did Mao. What kind of "change" does Obama want?
Mussolini called for "change", and got change. What is the sort of "change" that Obama wants?
Louis Farakhan would like "change". Is that the sort of "change" that Obama's pastor Rev. Wright wants? Is Obama's "change" in any way related to that?
Obama has a lot of negative things to say about President Bush, but very little to say about what he would like to do, except: change, change, change, change, change, change, change.

Quoth the Obama: "Change!"

Isn't it time that the electorate demanded to know what change he has in mind?

355 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:17:22am

New Obama/Che thread up top.

356 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:18:07am

re: #343 CIA Reject

Well I didn't know that.

Here's where you can still buy a 48 star flag.

357 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:19:02am

re: #349 CIA Reject

Boy Scouts learn how to fold the flag.

358 CIA Reject  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:21:05am

re: #356 Ojoe

Thanks! at least I know I'll be able to fold it!

359 CIA Reject  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:25:02am

re: #357 Ojoe

re: #349 CIA Reject

Boy Scouts learn how to fold the flag.

Yes, but judging from the generally deplorable flag etiquette I've seen I'm guessing that there's not a lot of Scouts out there.

/see ya topside on the new BO thead

360 Josephine  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:25:25am

re: #7 zombie

Boy, get ready for a nonstop barrage of this for the next 8 months:

If you criticize Obama's supporters for being communist-sympathizers, you are a "McCarthyite" who demands "loyalty oaths."

If you don't support Obama for any reason, you are a "racist" who "can't bear the thought of a black man in charge."

If you don't support Hillary, you are a "sexist" who is "afraid of female power."

Settle in. It will be a long ride.

You are right on.

In the recent provincial election here in Ontario, Canada, the Conservative leader (John Tory) promised tax funding for all private religious schools. Before and after the election, members of the media continually stated as fact that the people who were opposed to faith-based funding were Islamophobes and racists who were against the funding because they didn't like Muslims.

361 lanmaster  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:31:28am

I should hope that a Presidential Cadidate wouldn't have any problem with taking some kind of loyalty oath to America.

Unless you're a Democrat, that is.

362 Dianna  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:33:13am

re: #311 Cognito

When did "inappropriate" become strong language?

363 daverx  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:36:34am

“Loyalty oath?” Where the hell does that come from?

Well, he pulled it out of his ass, just like most of the 'Rats arguments. And his response "neither of which should be in doubt" is plainly doubletalk to hide the fact that Barack's actions themselves cast doubt on him.

And while you're looking at Che, cast your eyes over to the left and look at the smaller picture on the wall... what looks to be a calendar. I can't recognize the face obviously, but the apparent pose and composition of the picture bears a striking resemblance to the many we have seen of someone who is as much a murderer as Che. Do you see who? Take the name "Obama". Change one letter.

364 Catttt  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:38:54am

From the linked article's addendum:

It seems to me, though, that the implication of juxtaposing Obama’s refusal to wear an American flag pin with supporters displaying a Che flag is plain enough.

My reaction (sarcastic): So the FACTS about Senator Obama must NOT be checked out closely, since if you mention two of them at the same time, Senator Obama will look - bad. Gotcha, mate.

365 pingjockey  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:39:17am

re: #353 CIA Reject
I am a not so old (49) retired squid.

366 shane  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 11:43:51am

If you want to be president you're goddamn right I require a loyalty oath. Since you already say you serve your country(supposedly as a congressman) you leftist Che loving piece of shit, you should swear loyalty to America. This just shows that your agenda is absolutely anti-American.

367 kynna  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 12:01:10pm

At least it got noticed somewhere. But yeah, Joyner is a typical passive-aggressive leftist who has nothing behind his argument but some words he can string together to make you look unreasonable.

I can do that too. Facts and logic are on my side so I don't have to. In fact that's why it's my side.

368 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 12:14:56pm

re: #289 Charles

Have the usual LGF-hating morons started showing up in Joyner's comments yet?

No, actually. Quite a few Lizards over there, though, giving them all hell.

369 nikis-knight  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 12:24:09pm

re: #157 Noam Sayin'

There's been an update, Charles:


UPDATE: Johnson responds here arguing that I’m attributing something to him that he doesn’t believe. It seems to me, though, that the implication of juxtaposing Obama’s refusal to wear an American flag pin with supporters displaying a Che flag is plain enough.

The “loyalty oath” goes to the whole notion — implied by Johnson and others quoted above — that Obama is under some obligation to declare that he’s anti-Communist and pro-American. Neither of those should be in doubt.

...
um, despite the fact that he gives communist symbols more respect than American ones?
That doesn't raise any doubts?

Hello, McFly, anybody home?!?

370 rebnatan  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 12:29:51pm

LOYALTY OATH

I moved to Canada when I was five years old. I still remember the 'loyalty oath' from nursery school, and feel that all Americans should be obliged to learn and recite it. For those who don't remember:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,
And to the Republic for which it stands..."

371 Catttt  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 12:33:38pm

The other thing - commie gear in the office is a sign of glaringly poor stewardship and poor judgment (unless you are running as the Communist Party candidate). This sounds like a bad couple of qualities in a prospective President.

I personally think Senator Clinton is a socialist at the very least, but to my knowledge, she doesn't foolishly pin up commie gear on the walls, and she does the patriotic two-step.

372 LC LaWedgie  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 1:01:57pm
373 LiveFreeOrDie  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 1:27:33pm

The collision of reasoned argument and nutso hyperbole would be entertaining to watch... if Liberty were not at stake.

374 incanus  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 1:43:58pm

re: #46 BabbaZee

Charles:


“Loyalty oath?” Where the hell does that come from?

blink
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

Also, compare 1 and 2 (from Babba's link) to Obama's stated position on the use of nuclear weapons.

375 incanus  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 1:50:45pm

re: #79 Carl B

On a related note, anyone have reliable information on Obama's background and family, other than what originated from his campaign staff? Even though he is apparently now Christian, half his extended family is presumably muslim. Does he have siblings who have chosen to follow their father's religion? Is the American muslim community claiming him as one of their own?

In case no one else posts it: http://www.freedomsenemies.com/_more/obama.htm

376 Biff  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 1:54:07pm

re: #375 incanus

Yes, yes, and yes.

377 ElChimpy  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 1:59:00pm

One in 7 (or something like that) former Confederate soldiers, after the War, had to swear oaths to never try it again, in essence loyalty oaths. I'm sure the Paleo-Libs have no problem with that having been done. God forbid you openly express your love of a country that protects you when you hate it.

378 Bearster  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 2:07:01pm

Sorry for coming so late to this thread. I just want to say, for the record, that if someone raises a "loyalty oath" as a smokescreen, when in fact no call was ever made for such an oath, then what he is confessing is that he feels no loyalty.

If a federal agemnt ordered me on to my knees to swear an oath of loyalty to the USA, then I would know that the country had ceased to be worthy of my loyalty. Not because the oath per se, but because it was forced at gunpoint.

Anyone who bristles at the mere suggestion of loyalty per se is DISloyal. Which is of course the conclusion that one would form if one simply observed Obama discuss his racist, tribalist, collectivist, anti-American, victim-mentality, anti-western-civilization views. Or Hillary, or any other leading light of the democratic party.

379 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 2:12:39pm

re: #374 incanus

ding ding ding
we have a winner

380 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 2:17:22pm

re: #363 daverx

Well, he pulled it out of his ass,

he did not pull it out of his ass
it is far from random and his use of the term telegraphs his agenda

see here

and here

tied into this "loyalty oaths " fixation of theirs is their war against "the pledge of allegiance"

381 BabbaZee  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 2:18:25pm

Are you reading this thread Joyner?

I see you.

382 MigueldowninMexico  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 4:28:08pm

Charles
When I try to ding someone (pluses so far) the page jumps all the way to the top, and the ding is not registered.
I'm on IE 6.0.

Greetings and prayers for you all :)

383 Zimriel  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 5:14:53pm

Joyner's got some new fans!

Rich former Cuban's don't get my sympathy. I myself am also a nationalized American and that does not mean that I have to be brainwashed into thinking that a capitalist ideology is Heavensent.

Capitalism like Socialism is a human construct. Both have their flaws and their merits. Capitalism and it's reckless offspring "globalization" have been and will be responsible for the oppression of billions world wide at the benefit of...you guessed it..the West.

I'm proud to be an American but a NEW American who DOES believe in the OLD Constitution but who is also worldly and who believes that we need not impose ourselves on others. How would you feel if Bin Laden took over the U.S. and imposed his conservative beliefs on all of us. And what did we just do in Iraq?

Do you know that we removed Saddam Hussein from all the textbooks printed since our conquest? Who are we to rewrite THEIR history?

Cuba has it's history, for better or worse. Castro has his faults...he went a little wacky at times but you forget that initially he was welcomed to the U.S. as was El Che as heroes for their Revolucion! and overthrow of a corrupt regime.

I don't like Castro much but I like El Che...and though they were friends they had a falling out towards the end and Castro (though he denies it) turned a blind eye to his murder for political reasons.

We will never get to see El Che's vision...since Cuba as we know it is not that...

Eventhough Cuba has the worlds highest literacy rate and universal healthcare. We should look at our shortcomings before judging others.

Though I can understand your denouncing of Castro, I don't believe you can juxtapose those claims on Che Guevara.

I would tell some of you to READ UP but that may not be enough. You might have to change your perspective on the world.

I love the U.S. But we are not that clean and I for one am not ashamed to say that and take steps towards cleaning it up to set a REAL example!
Posted by Carlos | February 12, 2008 | 07:31 pm

Carlos is to Joyner what all those bilious BNP commenters are to Gates of Vienna.

384 joan  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 6:16:02pm

re: #7 zombie

Boy, get ready for a nonstop barrage of this for the next 8 months:

If you criticize Obama's supporters for being communist-sympathizers, you are a "McCarthyite" who demands "loyalty oaths."

If you don't support Obama for any reason, you are a "racist" who "can't bear the thought of a black man in charge."

If you don't support Hillary, you are a "sexist" who is "afraid of female power."

Settle in. It will be a long ride.


Each of those accusations is bullshit, and most important, they know it too. They spew this vomit because nobody ever bitch slaps 'em for it. They think it is all okay. By the way, one of the "peace" cows out in Berkeley today apparently pulled a knife on someone from the military moms and vets. No details on it yet at Move America Forward.

We need to swarm the Pennsylvania Pinhead dem who today announced that "white conservatives just can't bring themselves to vote for a black" person. I'd like to get him crying for his mommy on camera and stammering out how mis-underfckin'stood he is.

America cannot afford these deluded, dangerous, seditionists. They are culpable and irresponsible.

Three monster sharks have about finished with bumping us, the circle is tight and we will face a concerted move of some kind from China, Russia, the Jihad. Do these communards have any clue that we're in danger? Don't they want to survive, and be free? We can't afford wannabe Red Guards.

385 hrhamilton  Tue, Feb 12, 2008 6:26:52pm

For those of you who ask, yes, you have a responsibility to insure that those who represent you, whether officially or not, do so in a manner that is becoming to your effort.

Just to give an example, if the Girl Scouts are selling cookies, and the local chapter of the KKK takes out an ad in the local paper urging one and all to buy GS cookies, we would expect the GS organization to distance themselves from the KKK immediately.

It is entirely reasonable that Obama be expected to explain this association.


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