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Obama's Church Web Site 'Disappears' the 'Black Value System' (Update: They Missed a PDF)

Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:10:37 am PDT

Sometime between April 2006 and today, the church Barack Obama has attended for 20 years, Trinity United Church of Christ, quietly edited the “About Us” page of their web site, removing their statement of commitment to “the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981.”

Here’s the page from 2006, saved by the Internet Archive: Trinity United Church of Christ - About Us.

And here’s the current page: Trinity United Church of Christ - About Us.

The section that was removed:

Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:

1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the Black Community
3. Commitment to the Black Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.

(Hat tip: LGF readers.)

UPDATE at 3/17/08 10:05:37 am:

The Internet Archive shows that the page was edited sometime between March 15, 2007 and March 29, 2007.

UPDATE at 3/17/08 10:29:09 am:

There’s still a PDF file titled “The Black Value System,” hosted at the church web site, and it’s even more extreme than the 12 precepts quoted above.

UPDATE at 3/17/08 10:35:36 am:

An excerpt from the PDF file, on the subject of “Middleclassness:”

Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”

Classic methodology on control of captives teaches that captors must keep the captive ignorant educationally, but trained sufficiently well to serve the system. Also, the captors must be able to identify the “talented tenth” of those subjugated, especially those who show promise of providing the kind of leadership that might threaten the captor’s control.

Those so identified as separated from the rest of the people by:

Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another.

Placing them in concentration camps, and/or structuring an economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons.

Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which while training them to earn more dollars, hypnotizes them into believing they are better than others and teaches them to think in terms of “we” and “they” instead of “us”.

So, while it is permissible to chase “middle-incomeness” with all our might, we must avoid the third separation method-the psychological entrapment of Black “middleclassness”: If we avoid the snare, we will also diminish our “voluntary” contributions to methods A and B. And more importantly, Black people no longer will be deprived of their birthright, the leadership, resourcefulness, and example of their own talented persons.

UPDATE at 3/17/08 11:02:00 am:

The Black Value System does indeed have a page at the Trinity web site, but there is apparently no link to it from the “About Us” page where it formerly appeared: Trinity United Church of Christ - The Black Value System.

Instead, at the bottom of the “About Us” page linked above, they have a link to Rev. Wright’s “talking points” about The Black Value System.

UPDATE at 3/17/08 12:27:29 pm:

There is a link to the page, buried at the bottom of their home page. (Hat tip: carl b.)

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510 comments

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1 zmdavid  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:13:41am

I find rules 8 and 11 especially troubling.

2 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:15:10am

Huh. had a problem posting for a while there. Now if I only had something to say.

3 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:15:19am

Down the memory hole! Wheeeee!

/stalin would approve

4 BulgarWheat  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:15:21am

Amazing how repulsive this sounds when you replace one, simple word:

Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the White Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These White Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Whites are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:

1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the White Community
3. Commitment to the White Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the White Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the White Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting White Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all White leadership who espouse and embrace the White Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the White Value System.

5 rappmandu  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:15:31am

8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “MiddlecClassiness”

/Fixed

6 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:15:38am

re: #1 zmdavid
Ein Volk, Ein Vaterland,Ein Fuhrer

7 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:15:59am

re: #2 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Huh. had a problem posting for a while there. Now if I only had something to say.

Yes, LGF acting a little flaky this morning. Got a DB2 error a minute ago.

8 vero  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:16:42am

way to close the barn door now that all your hate animals have escaped.

9 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:16:44am
10 Dirk Diggler  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:16:45am
Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System

Sho 'nuff.

11 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:16:45am

See light shine.
See cockroach run.
Run cockroach run.

12 zmdavid  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:16:48am

I browsed the archive the other day and saw this. I haven't checked their actual site, I'm kind of surprised they took it down.

That MAAFA page in the archive is also interesting, I wonder if it's still on the live site.

13 addison  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:16:56am

People who change websites in the pursuit of hiding embarrassing information do not seem to grasp that things posted on the Internet have a way of lasting--literally forever.

14 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:17:59am

re: #11 Honorary Yooper

See light shine.
See cockroach run.
Run cockroach run.

See Charles step on cockroach.

Step, Charles, step!

15 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:18:11am
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”

I've been wondering about this for a long time. Can someone please explain this to me?

16 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:18:11am
17 jcm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:18:12am

Psst....

There is no memory hole in the internet.

All your deleted page belong to us.

18 Eric Cartman's Conscience  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:18:17am

So then, they're supremacists...

19 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:19:00am

re: #6 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Ein Volk, Ein Vaterland,Ein Fuhrer

Thinking about that, buzzsawmonkey last night noted an eerie similarity to crowds shouting "O-BA-MA!" and the Nuremburg rallies. I tend to agree. Obama has quite the cult of personality around him.

20 BulgarWheat  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:19:00am

re: #15 MandyManners

I wasn't aware that "embracement"was a word either.

21 bulwrk  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:20:10am

A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.


Whats stopping them from returning to the motherland if they so choose?

22 mattm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:20:22am

I thought they had nothing to hide, just a perfectly normal church. Whoops.

23 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:20:54am

re: #15 MandyManners

I've been wondering about this for a long time. Can someone please explain this to me?

"Middleclassness" is code word for "acting white".

24 ggt  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:21:06am

How does the "Black Value System" differ from the "American Value System" or the "Christian Value System".

I'm not getting how a Christian Church can have anything but a "Christian" Value System.

?

25 BIG  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:22:37am

I am sure that pretty soon we will be told that Obama was never a member of this church and that everything presented to-date is just part of the vast rightwing conspiracy.

26 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:23:22am

The bigots came home to roost in that lovely 'church.'

27 blame canada  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:23:25am

See Barack spin.
Spin, Barack, spin!

28 jcm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:23:46am

re: #23 Honorary Yooper

"Middleclassness" is code word for "acting white".

It is also Gramsician / Marxist code, advocating a single class society. When know how well that worked out.

29 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:23:47am

re: #20 BulgarWheat

I wasn't aware that "embracement"was a word either.

It is according to Webster.

30 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:24:18am

re: #25 BIG

Photochurched!

31 rappmandu  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:24:34am

10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Leprechaun Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions

/

32 BrianA  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:24:43am

I guess #11 is why Farrakhan gets the lifetime achievement award.

33 mattm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:24:48am

re: #25 BIG

I am sure that pretty soon we will be told that Obama was never a member of this church and that everything presented to-date is just part of the vast rightwing conspiracy.

I bet some Kos Kiddies will propose this soon.

34 christheprofessor  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:25:05am

Quick Sorta OT Question:

Has anybody heard that the story a few weeks back of an Obama rep going to Canada to say his anti-NAFTA stance was just campaign rhetoric, not to worry, has been debunked, that the Canadians said it never happened?

35 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:25:27am
36 freedombilly  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:25:56am

Whether it is a myspace page or a hate group fronting as a religious institution, once you post something it is in cyberspace FOREVER.

But I'm in a good mood.......Maybe they took it down because they actually changed their mind and the timing with the election and the bad publicity is completely coincidental.

And Bill really didn't know what the definition of "is" was.

You gotta love politics.

37 yesandno  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:25:57am

Separate but Unequal
What it was all about to begin with
Separate but Equal
What it became that was unacceptable
Equal but Separate
What it means to be multiculti
Doing away with "middleclassness"
Because if we can't be on top we will stay on the bottom
Embracing the Black value system
Because the values of third world dictatorships are not equal but superior to American ones

Seems like they hope to move backwards a number of years.

38 BulgarWheat  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:26:37am

re: #29 MandyManners

Looks like a product of the Urban Dictionary to me.

[Link: www.urbandictionary.com...]

39 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:27:26am

re: #23 Honorary Yooper

"Middleclassness" is code word for "acting white".

How does one act white? Wear plaid pants and an Izod polo shirt?

Seriously. How does one act black? The only "black" behavior that I'm aware of is found in teens in the rap culture, and kids of all shades can act that way.

What are they advocating?

40 bulwrk  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:28:42am

re: #25 BIG

He is already making statements concerning his less than stellar attendance record.

41 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:28:47am
42 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:28:51am

re: #38 BulgarWheat

Looks like a product of the Urban Dictionary to me.

[Link: www.urbandictionary.com...]

It's in my Webster's Unabridged Dictionary that I've had for a very long time.

43 Thanos  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:29:00am

Wow. Replace "Black" with "Flemish" and you have Vlaams Belang.

44 addison  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:29:14am

re: #15 MandyManners

I've been wondering about this for a long time. Can someone please explain this to me?

"Sell out" is the phrase that would best explain what they're on about. To pursue the whole independence-hard-work-two-kids-house-barbecue-on- weekends lifestyle is to--according to them--turn your back on the black "value system"...whatever that is.

I wonder if that church ever spent even two minutes investigating the link between the lack of fathers in black families and teenage/adult societal failure or is that part of the Black Value System and thus unmentionable?

45 Sol Roth  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:30:03am

What? Aren't the members of Trinity United PROUD of their formative doctrine? Wasn't Jeremiah Wright still pastor in 2006 when their order of battle changed?

46 ec marm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:30:04am

So what EXACTLY does this mean? It's gone and this dumb white America lovin' MFer won't know better? Did this removal repudiate the agenda in that little list?

47 MJ  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:30:05am

Hey, I posted this story back on Jan. 14 :

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

48 BrianA  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:30:18am

I don't get it.
Obama: abandoned by his black father, raised by his white mother and his white grandparents, sent to private schools etc..... becomes a black community activist, joins a racist Afrocentric church, thinks he has the stuff to become POTUS?
This guy has some issues.... I think he's mental.

49 xtraBilly  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:30:27am

Obama could put a end to the controversy if he disavowed the Rev's teachings in front of the TUC congregation.

50 TimeQuake  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:30:31am

OT
Charles,

More '07 comments popping up on recently linked stories.

Just saying.

51 Spiny Norman  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:30:42am
Sometime between April 2006 and today, the church Barack Obama has attended for 20 years, Trinity United Church of Christ, quietly edited the “About Us” page of their web site, removing their statement of commitment to “the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981.”

Well, I can state with some authority that that page was there as of a few weeks ago, because I linked to it on a couple of occasions (arguing with people who insisted that Obama as a secret Muslim) to point out that he was a nominal Christian, but his brand of "Christianity" was scarcely different from the Nation of Islam.

52 Occasional Reader  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:31:06am
3. Commitment to the Black Family

Now I wonder, would the family Barack Obama was raised in qualify? Enquiring minds want to know.

53 ec marm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:31:31am

Removed for CopyWright violation?

54 arcatan  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:31:34am

Yet another example of how Leftists must censor themselves lest the public become aware of who they really are.

Hannity tried confronting Wrong Way Rev Wright about how it would sound if you substituted "White" for "Black" in such a position ... ol' Wrong Way just retreated to bafflement and changed the subject to theological insight.

Make no mistake ... these mf's and their buddies are obfuscating liars who can't be trusted.

55 surrounded by moonbats  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:31:57am

re: #19 Honorary Yooper

Thinking about that, buzzsawmonkey last night noted an eerie similarity to crowds shouting "O-BA-MA!" and the Nuremburg rallies. I tend to agree. Obama has quite the cult of personality around him.

The same thing crossed my mind. I suppose it's heavy handed, but putting the O-BA-MA, next to the Nuremberg rallies in a 527 ad (or even just a YouTube clip) would be an interesting exercise. (No, I'm NOT saying Obama is Hitler ... just that when people get caught up in the cult of personality there are some similarities no matter who is the leader.)

56 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:32:09am
57 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:32:21am

13. We're black and they ain't.

58 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:32:35am

re: #49 xtraBilly

Obama could put a end to the controversy if he disavowed the Rev's teachings in front of the TUC congregation.

By the way, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale if you are interested?

59 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:33:00am

re: #43 Thanos

Wow. Replace "Black" with "Flemish" and you have Vlaams Belang.

Replace "Black" with "German" and you have history repeating itself.

60 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:33:13am

re: #44 addison

"Sell out" is the phrase that would best explain what they're on about. To pursue the whole independence-hard-work-two-kids-house-ba rbecue-on-weekends lifestyle is to--according to them--turn your back on the black "value system"...whatever that is.

I wonder if that church ever spent even two minutes investigating the link between the lack of fathers in black families and teenage/adult societal failure or is that part of the Black Value System and thus unmentionable?

I'm not aware of anyone saying that unwed parenthood is something to be pursued.

61 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:34:27am
62 Occasional Reader  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:34:28am

re: #25 BIG

I am sure that pretty soon we will be told that Obama was never a member of this church and that everything presented to-date is just part of the vast rightwing conspiracy.

This isn't the racist church you're looking for. /wave of hand
Obama can go about his business.
Move along.

63 addison  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:34:53am

re: #39 MandyManners

How does one act white? Wear plaid pants and an Izod polo shirt?

Seriously. How does one act black? The only "black" behavior that I'm aware of is found in teens in the rap culture, and kids of all shades can act that way.

What are they advocating?

In my mind, at its core "acting white" might be reduced to "not blaming your ills and woes on others or centuries-old historical events".

The line I'm most curious about is #6 Adherence to the Black Work Ethic. I'm sure many a joke could be made about this but I truly wonder what this is supposed to imply.

64 pat  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:35:05am

But it still opens with a map of Africa. Which would be OK if they had an African mission. But they don't. They would be laughed out of Africa.

65 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:35:08am
66 christheprofessor  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:35:09am

re: #56 ploome hineni

yes, sort of

Thanks. I hadn't heard it...

67 ec marm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:35:44am

I know I saw it about two weeks ago because I cut and pasted it into a comment then replaced the word 'black' with 'white' to make a point. Like the point needed to be made.

68 ggt  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:36:45am

re: #60 MandyManners

Teenage pregnancy and fatherless children is just another example of the racist attack on the black family. The eeevil white establishment did this as part of their master conspiracy to subjugate the black man.

/didn't you know? There is no personal responsibility, it's all your fault.

69 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:37:10am

re: #67 ec marm

I know I saw it about two weeks ago because I cut and pasted it into a comment then replaced the word 'black' with 'white' to make a point. Like the point needed to be made.

Well maybe not here so much, but in the MSM that point has to be made each and every day till it sinks in.

70 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:37:35am

Geez, I'm not too lame today - I read this and thought the title was "OPRAH's Church Website".
Sigh.

71 Psaturn  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:38:03am

Thanks Charles for finding this....we were looking for that one specifically as they dropped the "black" part in the commitment.


By the way this article has a hair raising comment on Black Liberation Theology

[Link: www.atimes.com...]

72 BrianA  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:38:05am
73 slartybartfast  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:38:15am

re: #43 Thanos

Wow. Replace "Black" with "Flemish" and you have Vlaams Belang.

How 'bout "Aryan"?

74 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:38:23am

All this rejection of "white" values makes me think about a black kid in my high school, around 1970.
He said how the Black Panthers and others were giving kids trouble for studying, working, etc., that they were acting white and that they should reject whiteness.
As someone else upthread said, we see how well this has helped blacks do in the US.
I think the kid I knew in high school did fine, but that is because he knew what to do to succeed. I never saw him in a dashiki. (Anyone else remember those?)

And as I said in another thread, many other groups, Irish, Italians, Jews, Chinese, etc. have come to the US, kept their identies, but still succeeded.
The blacks are doing to themselves something that would be racist if whites did it - they're telling themselves the only way they can succeed is with special treatment.

75 HoboTea  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:38:38am

#3 Commitment to the Black Family Guy?

76 ec marm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:39:02am

re: #69 Nevergiveup

Well maybe not here so much, but in the MSM that point has to be made each and every day till it sinks in.


Careful, you're gonna conjure up o%u0287%u0131u%u0183o%u0254.

77 addison  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:39:11am

re: #60 MandyManners

I'm not aware of anyone saying that unwed parenthood is something to be pursued.

[The comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.]

And yet there is largely silence from the black "leaders" over the failure of the black family. There's that saying, qui tacet consentire videtur.

78 Bubblehead II  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:39:24am

Charles, Got this error while trying to access the last comment on the invasion thread: MDB2 Error: no such field

Using IE6 and have two windows open

Page reloaded fine after a refresh

79 red satellite  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:39:42am
11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System

Now reads:

I pledge allegiance to all Black Leadership, of the United States of Black America, and to the Black Value Systems for which Obama stands and represents: one Black Nation under God, divisible between whites and blacks, with liberty from oppression and justice Thomas is an uncle Tom for all.

80 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:40:38am

re: #70 realwest

Geez, I'm not too lame today - I read this and thought the title was "OPRAH's Church Website".
Sigh.

Yeah funny isn't it. It was the democrats who wanted to keep religion out of politics. What a bunch of hypocrites.

81 loppyd  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:40:43am

I wonder if Obama put his hand over his heart for these pledges....

82 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:41:23am
83 Golem Akbar  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:41:27am

Obama now has the problem to disavow the racism of the black church. It's going to piss off a lot of his followers. I wonder how moderate and pro-American he will (appear to) become in the next few weeks.

84 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:41:43am

re: #4 BulgarWheat

Amazing how repulsive this sounds when you replace one, simple word:

Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the White Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These White Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Whites are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:

1. Commitment to God
2. Commitment to the White Community
3. Commitment to the White Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the White Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the White Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting White Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all White leadership who espouse and embrace the White Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the White Value System.

Bulgar- Are you insinuating a double standard?

/

85 oingo boingo  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:41:47am

re: #17 jcm

Psst....

There is no memory hole in the internet.

All your deleted page belong to us.

Can I get another Sho 'nuff?

86 chinesearithmetic  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:42:10am

A middle class hero is something to be
I was raised by Babara Billingsley

87 ironbill  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:42:30am

What the hell is so wrong with "middle-classness?"

This is the kind of "soft racism of lowered expectations" that Bush correctly referred to

I don't think its very "liberating" to stay in poor neighborhoods with lousy schools

88 ggt  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:43:17am

My posting is taking forever --

Off for a nap, have a great day all!

89 newsjunkie_ky  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:43:55am

reposting from earlier thread:
The obama double standard:
Imagine in 1999, that a videotape had come to light showing the pastor of Texas Gov. George W. Bush's church making vicious, hateful comments about America and cruel, racist statements about Americans of color.

Suppose this preacher had given a lifetime achievement award to former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, and had traveled to Europe with Duke to meet with neo-Nazi terrorists.

Now try to envision that the candidate's family had attended this church for more than twenty years, that George and Laura Bush had been married there, by this pastor, and that the Bush daughters had been baptized by him.

Picture George Bush titling his autobiography after a phrase in one of this minister's sermons, writing that the man was his mentor, and then putting him on the presidential campaign staff as a trusted advisor and confidant.

Say it came to light that for several years George W. Bush had been friends with Eric Rudolph, the notorious Olympic Park bomber and anti-abortion terrorist. Furthermore, let's suppose that Bush had remained friends with Rudolph over the years and still considered him a colleague today.

Now imagine Laura Bush, on the campaign trail for her husband, telling supporters and the national media that America is "mean" and that for the first time in her adult life she was proud of her country.

Is there a doubt that Republican officeholders would have run from the Bush campaign like rats from a burning barn, that he would have become the political leper of the 2000 campaign? And what about the media? They virtually crucified candidate Bush that year for daring to give a speech at Bob Jones University, which had once banned interracial dating. I cannot imagine the field day they would have had with something like this.

And yet excuses are made for Barack Obama, who now finds himself in exactly this situation. Obama's pastor of more than two decades - the man who married Barack and Michelle Obama, who christened their daughters, who inspired the title of the candidate's book, "The Audacity of Hope," - is now at the center of a storm that would have destroyed the candidacy of any Republican the day the story broke.
Read more.

90 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:43:56am

re: #15 MandyManners

I've been wondering about this for a long time. Can someone please explain this to me?

My guess is the "middleclassedness" is white people, who make up the vast majority of the middle class in the USA. What else could it be?

91 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:44:00am

re: #83 Golem Akbar

Obama now has the problem to disavow the racism of the black church. It's going to piss off a lot of his followers. I wonder how moderate and pro-American he will (appear to) become in the next few weeks.

Didn't Wavey Gravy, the guy from Woodstock, have a costume all made out of the American Flag? Maybe Obama could buy it and wear it for a few weeks?

92 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:44:20am
93 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:44:34am

re: #63 addison

In my mind, at its core "acting white" might be reduced to "not blaming your ills and woes on others or centuries-old historical events".

The line I'm most curious about is #6 Adherence to the Black Work Ethic. I'm sure many a joke could be made about this but I truly wonder what this is supposed to imply.

I'm thinking it's something they made up. I work with several African Americans and there is no difference between how they work and how I work.

94 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:44:36am

At the rate this is going, by the end of today Barry O will be converting to Catholicism, playing up his Irish roots, crushing a few Guinness and renaming himself Finbar O'Bama.

95 Spiny Norman  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:44:40am

re: #61 ploome hineni

is there a 'committment statement ' from the NOI?

I have no idea. What I was attempting to demostrate was that the TUCC's "commitment statement" resembled Louis Farrakhan's rhetoric that has been published and broadcast many times over.

96 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:44:49am

Written back in 1969, it was this book that really started the "black liberation theology" movement that inspired Rev. Wright: A Black Theology of Liberation by James H. Cone

97 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:45:30am

I wonder what Martin Luther King, Jr. Would have to say about all this if he were still alive?

It seems to me that many of the points of his "Dream" speech are coming true yet to hear the filth coming from this "preachers" mouth you'd think that lynchings were happening on a daily basis.

Racemongers like Je$$ie Jack$on and this "reverend" are just a bunch of whores living off of the backs of "their" people. If anyone is doing the oppressing these days it's people like the "reverend" who will lose their precious power if they didn't perpetuate the whole "whitey is evil and holding you down" thing.

98 ec marm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:45:53am

re: #85 oingo boingo

Can I get another Sho 'nuff?


How about a 'Tell it, brother' while I jump out of my seat and pat you on the back?
Al Gore really f'ed up the memory hole thingy when he invented the net.

99 BulgarWheat  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:45:55am

re: #84 Bob in Breckenridge

Yes, I am. Racism on any level and in any situation is the act of a frightened and misguided individual, or group.

It don't pass the stink test on any level.

One standard for all, no free passes.

100 victor_yugo  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:46:12am

re: #86 chinesearithmetic

A middle class hero is something to be
I was raised by Babara Billingsley

The white woman that spoke jive in Airplane?

101 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:46:40am

re: #80 Nevergiveup Yeah and maybe it explains why Oprah was so hot to get on (actually start, iirc) the Obama bandwagon.
Maybe she didn't really just attend one or two of the Racist Rev's sermons?!

102 Russkilitlover  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:47:29am

Very strange times we live in. We are in a war that no one talks about. Gold is over a thousand dollars, dollar has nothing further to sink against, credit availability has '30's echos. But we have to discuss some numbnut candidate's raving pastor! Not that it's not important - it is extremely important. We are fast tracking a marxist disciple into the Presidency.

103 dlmcilvain  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:47:45am

Imagine for a moment if my church had all these statements, however, replace the word "black" with "white". Now suddenly we have a "racist" church. This reminds me of college when all minorities can have exclusive club on campus called "black, hmung, etc... student union" but white could not happen because it would be racist. It is sad. If only the black population would see the opportunities before them instead of listening to victim peddlers like Wright.

104 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:48:00am

re: #99 BulgarWheat

I know Bulgar, hence the sarc tag...

105 jamgarr  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:48:20am

re: #20 BulgarWheat

I wasn't aware that "embracement"was a word either.

You, obviously, haven't been empowered enough or impacted sufficiently.

106 addison  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:48:26am

re: #93 MandyManners

I'm thinking it's something they made up. I work with several African Americans and there is no difference between how they work and how I work.

However, the church surely has some operating definition of this, otherwise they wouldn't have listed it.

107 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:48:41am

1984

108 chinesearithmetic  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:48:44am

A middle class hero is something to be
I was raised by Barbara Billingsley

109 dolfan  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:48:46am

Will any other black Americans stand up and disavow this garbage? We know Obama won't.

110 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:49:06am

re: #101 realwest

Yeah and maybe it explains why Oprah was so hot to get on (actually start, iirc) the Obama bandwagon.
Maybe she didn't really just attend one or two of the Racist Rev's sermons?!

Heres the problem with all these Hollywood types. She endorses Obama, then when the shit hits the fan, she runs for cover.

111 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:49:10am

re: #100 victor_yugo

The white woman that spoke jive in Airplane?

Randy: Can I get you something?
Second Jive Dude: 'S'mofo butter layin' me to da' BONE! Jackin' me up... tight me!
Randy: I'm sorry, I don't understand.
First Jive Dude: Cutty say 'e can't HANG!
Jive Lady: Oh stewardess! I speak jive.
Randy: Oh, good.
Jive Lady: He said that he's in great pain and he wants to know if you can help him.
Randy: All right. Would you tell him to just relax and I'll be back as soon as I can with some medicine?
Jive Lady: Jus' hang loose, blood. She gonna catch ya up on da' rebound on da' med side.
Second Jive Dude: What it is, big mama? My mama no raise no dummies. I dug her rap!
Jive Lady: Cut me some slack, Jack! Chump don' want no help, chump don't GET da' help!
First Jive Dude: Say 'e can't hang, say seven up!
Jive Lady: Jive ass dude don't got no brains anyhow! Hmmph!

112 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:49:32am

Honestly? I don't think Barak really bought into this (Michelle, maybe). I personally think he joined a church that had broad enough local appeal to get him elected to stuff. And it worked.

Okay to hate Whitey as long as you don't need his vote. But I really don't think Barak hates white people.

After all, Barak Obama is not a black man. He is an Arab American.

113 rappmandu  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:49:34am

#11

Heh.

114 littleoldlady  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:49:44am

All this web "disappearing" and chewing up of sites is starting to remind me of The Langoliers.

115 Russkilitlover  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:49:48am

re: #90 Bob in Breckenridge

My guess is the "middleclassedness" is white people, who make up the vast majority of the middle class in the USA. What else could it be?

"Middleclassness" is the American dream. And we all know how this pastor feels about America.

116 Dianna  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:49:52am

re: #34 christheprofessor

It happened; it's in the LGF archives - and the Obama campaign tried to pretend that the notes taken by one of the Canadians weren't accurate, so the story sort of faded.

117 BulgarWheat  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:50:00am

re: #104 Bob in Breckenridge

I know Bob, just wanted to put it out there in plain English.

118 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:50:09am

re: #108 chinesearithmetic

A middle class hero is something to be
I was raised by Barbara Billingsley

Paging Ward Cleaver, paging Ward Cleaver!

119 WrathofG-d  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:50:15am

What is more disturbing than this "Black Liberation Theology", are the numerous "progressives" that are excusing it.

Black hatred of Whites is no more excused by "Slavery" (hundreds of years ago) than White hatred of Blacks is excused by present day crime, etc.

The goal was black "equality of opportunity", not Black supremicy.

120 jcm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:51:04am

Moyinhan Report 1965

Chapter 2.

At the heart of the deterioration of the fabric of Negro society is the deterioration of the Negro family.

[snip]

There is much truth to this; as with any other nation, Americans are producing a recognizable family system. But that process is not completed by any means. There are still, for example, important differences in family patterns surviving from the age of the great European migration to the United States, and these variations account for notable differences in the progress and assimilation of various ethnic and religious groups.7 A number of immigrant groups were characterized by unusually strong family bonds; these groups have characteristically progressed more rapidly than others.
But there is one truly great discontinuity in family structure in the United States at the present time: that between the white world in general and that of the Negro American.

The white family has achieved a high degree of stability and is maintaining that stability.

By contrast, the family structure of lower class Negroes is highly unstable, and in many urban centers is approaching complete breakdown.

[snip]

Nearly a Quarter of Urban Negro Marriages are Dissolved.

Nearly a quarter of Negro women living in cities who have ever married are divorced, separated, or are living apart from their husbands.

[snip]

Nearly One-Quarter of Negro Births are now Illegitimate.

[snip]

Chapter 4.


In a word, a national effort towards the problems of Negro Americans must be directed towards the question of family structure. The object should be to strengthen the Negro family so as to enable it to raise and support its members as do other families. After that, how this group of Americans chooses to run its affairs, take advantage of its opportunities, or fail to do so, is none of the nation's business.
The fundamental importance and urgency of restoring the Negro American Family structure has been evident for some time. E. Franklin Frazier put it most succinctly in 1950:
"As the result of family disorganization a large proportion of Negro children and youth have not undergone the socialization which only the family can provide. The disorganized families have failed to provide for their emotional needs and have not provided the discipline and habits which are necessary for personality development. Because the disorganized family has failed in its function as a socializing agency, it has handicapped the children in their relations to the institutions in the community. Moreover, family disorganization has been partially responsible for a large amount of juvenile delinquency and adult crime among Negroes. Since the widespread family disorganization among Negroes has resulted from the failure of the father to play the role in family life required by American society, the mitigation of this problem must await those changes in the Negro and American society which will enable the Negro father to play the role required of him."61

Nothing was done in response to Frazier's argument. Matters were left to take care of themselves, and as matters will, grew worse not better. The problem is now more serious, the obstacles greater. There is, however, a profound change for the better in one respect. The President has committed the nation to an all out effort to eliminate poverty wherever it exists, among whites or Negroes, and a militant, organized, and responsible Negro movement exists to join in that effort.

In stead of a responsible movement, the black community got Jackson, Sharpton, and Wright.

121 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:51:26am

re: #109 dolfan

Will any other black Americans stand up and disavow this garbage? We know Obama won't.

Hugh Hewitt had a black minister on his show disavowing it.

122 dgax65  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:51:32am

No. 1 - OK
No. 2-7 ?
No. 8 - WTF? So what are they going to pursue; poverty or wealth? Do they have a preference? Rap star or ghetto dweller. NBA or the crack pipe. Wealthy black minister or welfare recipient. No middle class, huh? That's not going to get you very far.
No. 11 - I pledge allegiance to Reverend Al....... Yeah - that's a good one to get behind.

123 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:51:56am

re: #117 BulgarWheat

I know Bob, just wanted to put it out there in plain English.

Gotcha!

124 Golem Akbar  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:52:21am

If Charles had a white group supporting LGF with the same kind of white-racist philosophy as Obama's church has black racism, our Lizard Leader would be denounced by every journo in America and the western world.

Obama's got some 'splainin to do.

125 loppyd  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:52:50am

re: #94 JammieWearingFool

At the rate this is going, by the end of today Barry O will be converting to Catholicism, playing up his Irish roots, crushing a few Guinness and renaming himself Finbar O'Bama.

John Effin Kerry let everyone believe he was Irish until 2003.

126 mean Gene  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:52:57am

Weird that they never thought of doing this before this week.
Don't they look at that website every once in a while in the light of current events?
he he.
I guess they don't.
Odd that there was nothing about black music in there.
I ofttimes see that my most oblivious liberal neighbors always have earphones on.
Not too big on reading, that group.
No offense meant, but we've seen it in their own poor book sales.

127 WrathofG-d  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:54:19am

re: #119 PIMF WrathofG-d PIMF

What is more disturbing than this "Black Liberation Theology", are the numerous "progressives" that are excusing it.

Black hatred of Whites is no more excused by slavery(hundreds of years ago) than White hatred of Blacks is excused by present day crime, etc.

The goal was black "equality of opportunity", not Black supremicy.

--now I'm upset that Ron Paul is out of the race. We could have had the White racists against the Black racists!
/!

128 Charles  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:54:38am

re: #50 TimeQuake

OT
Charles,

More '07 comments popping up on recently linked stories.

Just saying.

Where?

129 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:54:47am

re: #119 WrathofG-d

What is more disturbing than this "Black Liberation Theology", are the numerous "progressives" that are excusing it.

Black hatred of Whites is no more excused by "Slavery" (hundreds of years ago) than White hatred of Blacks is excused by present day crime, etc.

The goal was black "equality of opportunity", not Black supremicy.

Well see once you buy into the "Excuse Theology Gospel" there is not need to be held accountable to the " Responsibility Theology Gospel". Maybe Obama HOPES to CHANGE that?

130 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:55:08am

re: #68 ggt

Teenage pregnancy and fatherless children is just another example of the racist attack on the black family. The eeevil white establishment did this as part of their master conspiracy to subjugate the black man.

/didn't you know? There is no personal responsibility, it's all your fault.

I've never heard anyone say that.

131 BulgarWheat  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:55:43am

re: #124 Golem Akbar

You posted that comment and I had a visual of Ricky Ricardo lecturing Lucy, only instead of red-headed Lucy, I visualized Obama in one of Lucy's dresses, but with the same pained expression on his face as Lucy used to get right before she started crying.

"Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Ricky!"

Now that is photoshop worthy!

132 crabtree  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:55:43am

Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”

Kind of fits with Michelle Obama's speech about avoiding high-paying jobs and going into "caring" fields doesnt' it? Hubby may not have been listening to the Sunday sermons, but I guess she was.

One of the defenses that was put out over the weekend is that Wright's statements are just typical of black churches with their emphasis on social justice, nothing to see, move along. I don't think that argument helps Obama to transcend the race issue. . .

133 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:56:40am

Take a look at their Bookstore, under "Social Themes"

Democracy Matters: Winning the Fight Against Imperialism

Quitting America

The Debt: What America Owes To Blacks

134 zmdavid  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:56:41am
135 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:57:01am

re: #110 Nevergiveup I guess so - has she said anything at all about this Obama/Racist Rev crap?

136 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:57:45am

re: #76 ec marm

Careful, you're gonna conjure up o%u0287%u0131u%u0183o%u0254.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

137 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:58:08am

re: #135 realwest

I guess so - has she said anything at all about this Obama/Racist Rev crap?

All quite on the western front.

138 Golem Akbar  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:59:05am

re: #131 BulgarWheat

You posted that comment and I had a visual of Ricky Ricardo lecturing Lucy, only instead of red-headed Lucy, I visualized Obama in one of Lucy's dresses, but with the same pained expression on his face as Lucy used to get right before she started crying.

"Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaa, Ricky!"

Now that is photoshop worthy!


Here's a start.

139 addison  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:59:14am

This ([Link: www.rasmussenreports.com...] makes me want to cry:

However, among African-Americans, 29% said Wright’s comments made them more likely to support Obama. Just 18% said the opposite while 50% said Wright’s comments would have no impact.

Overall, voters are evenly divided as to whether Obama should resign his membership in the Church—42% say that he should while 40% disagree. White voters, by a 46% to 33% margin, say that Obama should leave the Church. African-American voters, by a 68% to 16% margin, say he should not. Wright retired last month as Pastor of the Church.

...

140 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:59:20am

re: #77 addison

[The comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.]

And yet there is largely silence from the black "leaders" over the failure of the black family. There's that saying, qui tacet consentire videtur.

Maybe the "leaders" are scared of losing financial support if they spoke the truth as Bill Cosby does.

141 BrianA  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:59:27am

re: #109 dolfan

Will any other black Americans stand up and disavow this garbage? We know Obama won't.

Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson

142 friarstale  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:59:42am

when you were a little kid,
did you ever like to
take a magnifying glass
and fry ants
by concentrating
the rays of light

from the sun?

a little focus
can bring
a lot of heat

143 WrathofG-d  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:59:46am

re: #129 Nevergiveup

oy maybe.

I've been listing to Air America, and the like, and am just shocked by the ways that the DNC, LLL, and other "progressives" are doing everything they can to distance Obama from the Pastor that married him, and baptised his kids. (I imagine that who baptises your kids is a big deal.)

If a Republican was going to David Duke's church or that White Nazi "church" for over 20 years....I don't think the MSM, or public would be explaining why its not such a big deal.

((Dang, I know all the crap I get on LGF alone for reading the books of a particular rabbi...))

144 phoenixgirl  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 9:59:48am

re: #112 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Honestly? I don't think Barak really bought into this (Michelle, maybe). I personally think he joined a church that had broad enough local appeal to get him elected to stuff. And it worked.

Okay to hate Whitey as long as you don't need his vote. But I really don't think Barak hates white people.

After all, Barak Obama is not a black man. He is an Arab American.

an arab american? how do you figure?

145 londonpride  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:00:13am

re: #51 Spiny Norman

Well, I can state with some authority that that page was there as of a few weeks ago, because I linked to it on a couple of occasions (arguing with people who insisted that Obama as a secret Muslim) to point out that he was a nominal Christian, but his brand of "Christianity" was scarcely different from the Nation of Islam.

Melanie Phillips website linked to it too earlier this year.

146 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:00:41am

re: #137 Nevergiveup It IS quiet isn't it. Too quiet. Be wery,wery cawful, the wabbit may be out there! (channeling Elmer Fudd!).

147 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:00:45am

re: #144 phoenixgirl

Heh.

148 loppyd  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:00:49am

re: #140 MandyManners

Maybe the "leaders" are scared of losing financial support if they spoke the truth as Bill Cosby does.

Funny you mention Bill Cosby as I have been wondering what his take on this would be.

149 rappmandu  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:01:04am

This story is like a Whistle Tip on Obama's campaign.

/Woo WOOOOOO!

150 Yankee Zionist  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:01:18am

Play the videos all the way through, and you'll see that they provide a link to Obama's campaign. Isn't that against IRS rules?

151 victor_yugo  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:01:32am

re: #139 addison

This ([Link: www.rasmussenreports.com...] makes me want to cry:

...

Gain 29%, lose 18%. Net gain of 11%. Is that enough to change the Dem ticket?

What about the change among the white voters? It's probably a bigger change, both percentage and raw numbers.

Then again, with their wonky "I'm Super!"-delegate system in place, do their votes really matter?

152 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:01:50am

re: #143 WrathofG-d

What books?

153 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:02:09am

Patterson's been sworn in.

154 Ben Hur  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:02:13am
155 de La Valette  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:02:16am

from MIT: Identifying Manipulated Images

Not quite on topic - but one of Charles' favorite subjects.

156 reallygone  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:02:18am

They turned this off a couple months ago. I would really like some reporter to ask Obama if he (or one of his staff) went to Pastor Wright and asked him to remove it from the site. That would be an important piece of information.

157 loppyd  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:02:34am

re: #150 Yankee Zionist

Play the videos all the way through, and you'll see that they provide a link to Obama's campaign. Isn't that against IRS rules?

I believe it is.

IIRC the church is in hot water with the IRS for their endorsement of Obama.

But that is just a white man's conspiracy to keep them down.

/

158 David Simon  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:02:43am

re: #120 jcm

From your link:

Nearly One-Quarter of Negro Births are now Illegitimate.

That figure is now closer to 70%.

One of the REAL reasons why there's a large black underclass, you Blame Whitey assholes.

159 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:03:01am

re: #142 friarstale

when you were a little kid,
did you ever like to
take a magnifying glass
and fry ants
by concentrating
the rays of light

from the sun?

a little focus
can bring
a lot of heat

I bet you pulled the wings off of butterflies, too.

160 BulgarWheat  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:03:38am

re: #138 Golem Akbar

cut it out......that's not funny. now I need to bleach my eye's

heh!

161 phoenixgirl  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:03:58am

re: #149 rappmandu

This story is like a Whistle Tip on Obama's campaign.

/Woo WOOOOOO!

i don't think bub rub can drive......and i think he got ripped off, i didn't hear it as he drove away

162 WrathofG-d  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:03:59am

re: #152 Nevergiveup

I (and others) have been asked by Charles not to mention the author, so I will not be doing so here out of respect for the rules of the house.

If you really want to know however, you can email me at WrathofG-d@hotmail.com

163 TimeQuake  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:04:26am

re: #128 Charles


One was "Flattery and Lies" but it fell off the grid anyway.

164 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:04:59am

re: #139 addison I can understand why it would make you cry, but for a contrary view, visit Jammiewearingfool's site here:
[Link: jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com...]
Where Jammie reports: "Seventy-three percent (73%) of voters say that Wright’s comments are racially divisive. That opinion is held by 77% of White voters and 58% of African-American voters. In addressing the issue, Obama warned against injecting race into the campaign.

Most voters, 56%, said Wright’s comments made them less likely to vote for Obama. That figure includes 44% of Democrats. Just 11% of voters say they are more likely to vote for Obama because of Wright’s comments."

165 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:05:19am

O/T, but "Mac users who want to back up their e-mail archives may have Rush Limbaugh to thank."

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

166 addison  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:05:32am

re: #140 MandyManners

Maybe the "leaders" are scared of losing financial support if they spoke the truth as Bill Cosby does.

There is no "maybe" about it. The moment focus is taken off "the other" as the impediment, they have to look to themselves as the problem--and the solution (see Eric Hoffer's The True Believer).

Standard diversion and mass-movement tactic. Used by the "Palestinians" regarding Israel. Used by Islamists/anti-Semites regarding Jews. Used by Castro-apologists regarding America...

167 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:05:38am

re: #154 Ben Hur

CBS Has Barack's Back: Wright's Words Compared to Those of Jesus

Yes, that Jesus.

No, not really? Really? I'm shocked!
/

168 christheprofessor  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:05:48am

re: #92 ploome hineni

re: #116 Dianna

Thank you both.

169 Rancher  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:05:49am

I cannot believe that I am in a position where I hope Hillary wins.

170 loppyd  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:06:07am

re: #154 Ben Hur

CBS Has Barack's Back: Wright's Words Compared to Those of Jesus

Yes, that Jesus.

BEN HUR!

Well, according to Rev. Wright, Jesus was black.

171 victor_yugo  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:06:22am
172 Bill Amos  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:06:46am

Obama is gonna do a slick willy. He is going to wrap himself up into his socialist programs and argue “If you lose me you lose healthcare, you lose peace, you lose affordible housing...ect ect ect...”

He will play defense by using them as a sheild.

The counter argument is to say “America will survive losing Obama. America is greater than Obama’s campaign. We will address our problems and dont have to have Obama’s bagage attached to it. Obama claimed his judgement is what he is running on. As we can see his judgement is faulty.”

If he is allowed to play defense using social programs as his sheild then he can still win.

173 Charles  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:06:50am

The Internet Archive shows that the page was edited sometime between March 15, 2007 and March 29, 2007.

174 ChicagoBlue  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:06:57am

re: #143 WrathofG-d

oy maybe.

I've been listing to Air America, and the like, and am just shocked by the ways that the DNC, LLL, and other "progressives" are doing everything they can to distance Obama from the Pastor that married him, and baptised his kids. (I imagine that who baptises your kids is a big deal.)

If a Republican was going to David Duke's church or that White Nazi "church" for over 20 years....I don't think the MSM, or public would be explaining why its not such a big deal.

((Dang, I know all the crap I get on LGF alone for reading the books of a particular rabbi...))

All so true - and I'm getting real tired of hearing all the MSM refer to the pastor's preachings as "statements and/or comments". Just another way to diminish what we all know are teachings and sermons that have been going on for decades at this church, by this pastor. Not statements.

175 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:07:35am

re: #162 WrathofG-d

Gotta, But I get the feeling he might have been expelled from Israel and gunned down in NYC.

176 sneaky  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:07:46am

When I viewed the website in early 2007 it full was of "black power" crap. When I revisited in January 2008, the "black power" crap had gone and the site looked nice and new. Imagine how surprised I was.

177 Silhouette  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:08:10am

Haven't been checking in much lately so this had probably been hashed to death, but Obama's excuse to distance himself from his preacher include pointing out that he wasn't present for the "G**D*** America" sermon was hilarious.

He was at a meeting of La Raza* instead. Oh yeah, that's so much better.

/

*the racist organization with not only the name "The Race" but the motto "For the race, everything, for those outside the race, nothing."

178 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:08:36am

re: #143 WrathofG-d

(I imagine that who baptises your kids is a big deal.)

Not as big a deal as the rabbi who circumcises your son, but I know what you mean.

179 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:08:43am

re: #151 victor_yugo Please see my #164.

180 kirche  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:09:13am

could it be argued that the goal, or final result, of the black value system is for the USA to be "controlled by rich black people"? if i read the list correctly, the black value system is a separatist agenda that by design, is exclusive in nature, and would replace the current cotrol of the USA by "rich white people", yes?

and of course, the equivalent white-centric political-religious organizations are to be condemned (rightly so) but if a minority victim class espouses it it's just and fair.

181 rappmandu  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:09:25am

Please let an old black web site have its anger in private.

/

182 Peacekeeper  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:09:44am

Hit the road Barrack, don't you come back no more...

183 loppyd  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:09:48am

re: #177 Silhouette

Haven't been checking in much lately so this had probably been hashed to death, but Obama's excuse to distance himself from his preacher include pointing out that he wasn't present for the "G**D*** America" sermon was hilarious.

He was at a meeting of La Raza* instead. Oh yeah, that's so much better.

/

*the racist organization with not only the name "The Race" but the motto "For the race, everything, for those outside the race, nothing."

Saw that and thought the same thing!

184 addison  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:09:53am

re: #164 realwest

I can understand why it would make you cry, but for a contrary view, visit Jammiewearingfool's site here:
[Link: jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com...]
Where Jammie reports: "Seventy-three percent (73%) of voters say that Wright’s comments are racially divisive. That opinion is held by 77% of White voters and 58% of African-American voters. In addressing the issue, Obama warned against injecting race into the campaign.

Most voters, 56%, said Wright’s comments made them less likely to vote for Obama. That figure includes 44% of Democrats. Just 11% of voters say they are more likely to vote for Obama because of Wright’s comments."

I know overall the poll disfavors Obama. My pain was over the black reaction, not a perceived boost in his polling numbers.

185 BulgarWheat  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:11:31am

re: #181 rappmandu

Rotating title worthy!

186 Peacekeeper  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:11:48am

1. Commitment to God
What? Not ; commitment to a black god?

187 dolfan  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:11:54am

re: #141 BrianA

#121, #141

Please excuse my ignorance -- I am not familiar with either of these gentlemen.

188 Rancher  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:12:22am

re: #173 CharlesMy son and I were discussing the "middleclassness" thing Saturday morning so it was still there around 11 am.

189 rappmandu  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:13:10am

This is just more of "they say one thing in Arabic, another in English." What is on the old web site is irrelevant, as is anything said within they walls of that church.

We are only allowed to consider what Obama says in "English" in carefully orchestrated MSM settings.

/

190 David Simon  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:13:39am

re: #187 dolfan

#121, #141

Please excuse my ignorance -- I am not familiar with either of these gentlemen.

Juan Williams - and he's a Democrat.

191 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:14:23am

re: #173 Charles Geez you are good! Um, wonder what happened either during that time period or just before/after that time period?
When did Obama announce his candidacy?
When did Oprah come out with both guns blazing on Obama's side.
Inquiring minds and all that.

192 Peacekeeper  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:15:18am

Loppy aren't you associated with the church of the Red Sox?

1. Commitment to Red Sox
2. Commitment to the Red Sox Community
3. Commitment to the Red Sox Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Red Sox Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Red Sox Excellence
6. Adherence to the Red Sox Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Red Sox Self-Discipline and Red Sox Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “NewYorkYankeeness”
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Red Sox Community
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Red Sox Institutions
11. Pledge allegiance to all Red Sox leadership who espouse and embrace the Red Sox Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Red Sox Value System.

193 WrathofG-d  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:15:48am

re: #175 Nevergiveup

ding. ding. ding.

he-who-shall-not-be-named wasn't expelled. Just arrested, jailed, etc...but let's move on.

194 Charles  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:15:49am

I think the Internet Archive is accurate on this -- here's Google's cache from March 3, 2008 -- looks the same as today:

[Link: 209.85.173.104...]

195 Catttt  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:15:56am

Part 8, in detail, makes the Marxist underpinnings of this "value system" obvious, imho and also condemns Black people who are part of the middle class - unless they are moles? Sounds that way to me.


Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness.” Classic methodology on control of captives teaches that captors must be able to identify the “talented tenth” of those subjugated, especially those who show promise of providing the kind of leadership that might threaten the captor’s control.

Those so identified are separated from the rest of the people by:


Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another.
Placing them in concentration camps, and/or structuring an economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons.
Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which, while training them to earn more dollars, hypnotizes them into believing they are better than others and teaches them to think in terms of “we” and “they” instead of “us.”
So, while it is permissible to chase “middleclassness” with all our might, we must avoid the third separation method – the psychological entrapment of Black “middleclassness.” If we avoid this snare, we will also diminish our “voluntary” contributions to methods A and B. And more importantly, Black people no longer will be deprived of their birthright: the leadership, resourcefulness and example of their own talented persons.

196 loppyd  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:16:29am

re: #192 Peacekeeper

PK!

That is beautiful!

I do bow at the Red Sox altar.

197 WrathofG-d  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:16:53am

re: #178 Who Watches the Watchmen?

I actually "meant" nothing by the statement. I really don't/didn't know.

198 Peacekeeper  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:17:28am

re: #196 loppyd

PK!

That is beautiful!

I do bow at the Red Sox altar.

Thou shalt have no other teams before them.

199 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:17:36am

re: #184 addison at the risk of being repitituous (and if that ain't spelled correctly blame the surge and slowness of spell check, not me! LOL) the poll Jammie was quoting said "Seventy-three percent (73%) of voters say that Wright’s comments are racially divisive. That opinion is held by 77% of White voters and 58% of African-American voters."

200 BrianA  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:17:39am

re: #187 dolfan

#121, #141

Please excuse my ignorance -- I am not familiar with either of these gentlemen.

Jesse Lee Peterson

He's on Sean Hannity's show frequently.

201 Fasternu426  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:18:40am

Would it be inappropriate so call this a whitewash?

202 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:19:03am

re: #192 Peacekeeper Geez, talk about a front runner! What did you do, give up on the Patriots cause they lost one, ONE, game?!

203 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:19:56am

re: #196 loppyd

PK!

That is beautiful!

I do bow at the Red Sox altar.

You should add a # 13, as we Yankee fans have found out.
13) Thou shall not open the season in Japan!

204 Silhouette  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:20:19am

re: #189 rappmandu

This is just more of "they say one thing in Arabic, another in English." What is on the old web site is irrelevant, as is anything said within they walls of that church.

And they are so open about it. "Yeah, blacks say those things when whites aren't around. It's just our way. It doesn't mean anything."

No, not all black people talk that way.

No, it isn't "their" way. They don't have "a" way. There are 30-40 million or so. They have LOTS of different ways of being.

And it sure as hell does mean something.

205 godfrey  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:20:28am

This is why the timing of these exposures is so crucial. I wanted Obama to be the Donk candidate. He would've been easily defeated. Now there's plenty of time for this to get airbrushed and forgotten, as is happening before our very eyes.

Cache's are all very well, but at this point, everything will be "a revisiting," "something that was brought up months ago!" and "can we please move on to the issues that affect our country"?

Feh.

206 dolfan  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:20:41am

re: #190 David Simon

Yeah, you're right. I heard him yesterday. Guess I was started St. Patty's day celebrating a bit too early.

207 victor_yugo  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:20:47am

re: #201 Fasternu426

Would it be inappropriate so call this a whitewash?

Well, it certainly isn't the Caucasians doing it...

208 Clemente  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:21:07am

re: #194 Charles

Charles (and all) -

The PDF remains online, hosted by TUCC.

209 propstrike  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:21:19am

Never trust whitey! And always carry vise grips.

Amuse yourself with the Trinity sign at [Link: churchsigngenerator.com...]

210 Peacekeeper  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:21:30am

Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981.

So, I gotta go to work or I would look up some of this. Where's Babba when you need her?

211 Peacekeeper  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:22:28am

re: #202 realwest

Geez, talk about a front runner! What did you do, give up on the Patriots cause they lost one, ONE, game?!

Now, now, we're talking about Loppy's issues...

BBL

212 jcm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:22:31am

re: #158 David Simon

From your link:

That figure is now closer to 70%.

One of the REAL reasons why there's a large black underclass, you Blame Whitey assholes.

That report was 40 years ago.... Moyinhan was prescient in his report, that if the trend continued, their would be hell to pay. The ones who pay for the mis-leadership of the last 40 years of the black community is those suffering under that leadership.

Wright et. al. have a vested interest in keeping their own people down, we see the same thing in Palestine. As soon as the individual exerts their liberty, and discovers the power of liberty, they lose their following.

213 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:23:34am

re: #205 godfrey

Cache's are all very well, but at this point, everything will be "a revisiting," "something that was brought up months ago!" and "can we please move on to the issues that affect our country"?

I heard the local black public access guys talking yesterday about how "they're throwing everything at Obama hoping something will stick."

214 jcm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:23:40am

re: #186 Peacekeeper

1. Commitment to God
What? Not ; commitment to a black god?

Remember the sermon? Jesus was black, oppressed by the white European Romans.

215 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:23:44am

re: #194 Charles Oh geez, now I'm more confused than ever. You said "The Internet Archive shows that the page was edited sometime between March 15, 2007 and March 29, 2007."
So what does March 8th of this year have to do with it? Seems to me that something happended either during March 15 '07 and March 29 '07 or just before or just after that time period. Again, does anyone know when Obama declared his candidacy?

216 David Simon  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:25:16am

re: #206 dolfan

Yeah, you're right. I heard him yesterday. Guess I was started St. Patty's day celebrating a bit too early.

No problem. I just don't want to lose sight of the fact that, while there is an uncomfortably high number of black nationalist assholes, most blacks are decent people.

217 Iron Fist  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:25:37am

re: #134 zmdavid,

It is kinda like saying you couldn't be attending a racist speech because you were across the country attending a cross-lighting. Um, dude, I don't think you've improved your position much.

218 BulgarWheat  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:25:45am

Here's the re-write that I want to see from his church

Buckeye United Church of Ohio State adopted the Buckeye Value System written by the Woody Hayes Recognition Committee chaired by Coach Jim Tressel in 2002. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Buckeye Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Buckeyes are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:

1. Commitment to God and Ohio State Football
2. Commitment to the Buckeye Community
3. Commitment to the Buckeye Family
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
6. Adherence to the Buckeye Work Ethic
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “anything to do with that team up north”
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Buckeye Community (Removal of the Big 10 Network)
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Buckeye Institutions (This includes tail-gating parties)
11. Pledge allegiance to all Buckeye leadership who espouse and embrace the Buckeye Value System
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Buckeye Value System.

219 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:26:17am

re: #208 Clemente Huh?
That's not what I saw when I went to their webpage.

220 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:26:42am

Obama's pastor was incredibly duplicitous. He must have had two sermons available every Sunday and if Obama wasn't there, he whipped out the raving sermon.

221 Racer X  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:26:49am

re: #173 Charles

A throbbing memo replacing "black" with "white" might be entertaining.

222 kirche  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:27:37am

186 piecekeeper

1. Commitment to God
What? Not ; commitment to a black god?

-------------------------------------

well, Christ IS the son of God... and Christ was definitely not an anglo-saxon european... i would think the BVS assumes the congregation understands God to be a God of color at least - - or a black God with at best. probably with an afro the size of the milky way.

223 Rancher  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:27:43am

Obama has a great campaign staff, they knew this was coming.

224 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:29:21am

Strange that the word "American" doesn't appear in that list.

225 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:29:54am

re: #223 Rancher Why do you say that?

226 Rancher  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:30:13am

re: #224 WriterMom
No, not strange at all.

227 Silhouette  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:30:28am

re: #215 realwest

Oh geez, now I'm more confused than ever. You said "The Internet Archive shows that the page was edited sometime between March 15, 2007 and March 29, 2007."
So what does March 8th of this year have to do with it? Seems to me that something happended either during March 15 '07 and March 29 '07 or just before or just after that time period. Again, does anyone know when Obama declared his candidacy?

I remember visiting the site both before and after last year. (Both times on links, recommendations from here). Some in the blog world were noticing the bigoted screed, and sending people to see it at the time.

Then poof, it was gone.

228 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:31:19am

On the issue of illegitimacy:

One of the uglier collusions of modern politics has been the unholy alliance between Feminism and Black Nationalism. It is neither a natural nor a friendly alliance in many ways -- never forget that one of the things that allowed the 19th Amendment to go forward was a tacit promise from the Suffragettes not to use their votes against Jim Crow and the revival of racist legislation after WWI.

Still, it's a powerful alliance. The silence on the matter of illegitimacy derives from that alliance -- Radical Feminism has the destruction of the "bourgeois" family as one of its primary goals, and the more that is done to undermine marriage and call into question the importance of two-parent households, etc. the closer they get to de-normalizing monogamous heterosexual marriage.

By and large, Blacks oppose the latter goal, but are willing to remain silent in order to ensure Feminist support for other measures, in particular "multicultural" and "diversity" programs that increase the authority of the old Black leadership in the fields of education and local government.

In the seminaries, Feminists are the primary champions of Liberation Theology (something which really went the way of the Stegosaurs in formal theological circles some thirty years ago) which they have turned to their own advantage through turning away from traditional religious practices to "Feminist spirituality," much of which is merely an occasion for the rehearsal of radical Marxian ideology. Blacks are quite at home with this theology, especially since revisionists have recast the theology of the civil rights movement (which was in many ways deeply opposed to Marxism) in terms of Liberation Theology.

Ultimately, both groups have different aims -- secession and hegemony over a closed community in one case; hegemony within the larger political and social system on the other, but for the moment, the marriage of convenience remains strong.

Of course, on a very deep level, this is what makes the Obama-Hillary contest so interesting -- at a certain stage the two groups, who have been involved in this unholy dance, will have to face each other as rivals for power.

229 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:31:32am

re: #226 Rancher

LOL. Should I have used a sarc tag?

230 rappmandu  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:31:48am

I think the important point on which to focus is that this screed directs its adherents to exclude non-black races other than white.

231 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:31:48am

re: #227 Silhouette So you think it was changed simply because more people were seeing it?

232 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:31:59am

re: #224 WriterMom

Strange that the word "American" doesn't appear in that list.

I don't want to see "American" in any Church's statement of faity. Don't want to see Black, White, or Korean for that matter.

233 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:32:05am

Ummm, comment function being snarky.

234 planetdan  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:32:09am

Replace the word "black" with "Jewish"

Imagine the outrage.

235 badsysop  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:32:42am

As pointed out earlier, replace the word "Black" with "White" and it looks like something straight off a White Nationalist Neo-Nazi website.

Blacks help blacks out and that's great. Hispanics help other hispanics and that's great. White helping other whites? That's freakin' racist!

This crap has GOT to end for us to get past "race". With democrats... it will never end. And then those pricks have the arrogance to act like they are the ones on the "right side" of civil rights issues.

What a joke. Obama = Finished. The liberal whiners can hope like hell mainstream America will look the other way but when the NRA comes out with commercials quoting the good ole' racist reverand, Jesse Jackson is on the news pimping Obama, and Al Sharpton is doing the same... It isn't going to happen.

I should be happy that everything helps the republicans out, but I'd be much happier if this crap were to just end. Sadly, as long as liberals want to make exceptions and excuses for some people, and then hold others to different standards all while yelling "equality"... it won't happen.

236 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:32:47am
There’s still a PDF file titled “The Black Value System,” hosted at the church web site, and it’s even more extreme than the 12 precepts quoted above.

I got my copy!

237 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:33:01am

A SHORT STORY

A small predominantly white country, virtually grounds it's entire civilian air transport system, and with the help of our present President's Dad, airlifts 30,000 Black refuges in 2 days to safety. They continue to secretly save over 100,000 others in the following years. They do this without any thought to the cost or disruption to the fabric of it's society. They do this without any thought to the color of the refugees skin. They do this knowing full well they will have to support, educate, and find work and housing for said refugees. I am just curious what the Reverend Wright would think of this? He must praise the country that would do such a Mitzvahs for Said refugees since they are also Black. Go figure?

238 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:33:42am

re: #93 MandyManners

I'm thinking it's something they made up

Like Kwanza.

239 Racer X  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:33:55am

re: #208 Clemente

Charles (and all) -

The PDF remains online, hosted by TUCC.

Wow. The parts about "captor" and "captives", along with the "concentration camps" sent chills down my spine.

These people are creepy!

240 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:34:07am

re: #208 Clemente

Charles (and all) -

The PDF remains online, hosted by TUCC.

Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”
Classic methodology on control of captives teaches that captors must keep the captive
ignorant educationally, but trained sufficiently well to serve the system. Also, the captors
must be able to identify the “talented tenth” of those subjugated, especially those who
show promise of providing the kind of leadership that might threaten the captor’s control.

What are they smoking?

241 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:34:46am

re: #232 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Me thinks me should have written more clearly.

I should have wrote that the glaring absence of a commitment to America is noteworthy. Ga!

242 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:36:00am

re: #240 MandyManners
A better question might be why are they still here if America is so bad?!
AND NO - I'm not suggesting that they should love us or leave us, just that if things are soo fucking bad, why haven't they moved?

243 Rancher  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:36:38am

re: #225 realwestWhy else did the Church disapear it if not for Obama? They also knew not to have Wright there when he anounced.

244 Charles  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:36:59am

Just posted the 'Middleclassness' section from that PDF, above...

245 mj  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:37:23am

re: #223 Rancher

Obama has a great campaign staff, they knew this was coming.


Yes, they sure did which is why Axelrod has had prepared the groundwork early on to label any criticism of Obama as racist. Just talking about the issue of race got as number of people labeled as racists.

246 father_of_10  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:39:43am

re: #15 MandyManners

I've been wondering about this for a long time. Can someone please explain this to me?

Me too. Growing up in a lower-middleclass family, I am proud of the stides I and my brothers have made to the middle-middle and upper-middleclass. That's a bad thing? I think not!

247 Racer X  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:40:20am

No, no, you people got it wrong. Only whites are racist.

248 Rancher  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:40:26am

re: #241 WriterMomLOL! You Americanists just don't, can't understand progressives.

249 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:40:56am

re: #244 Charles

Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another.

Placing them in concentration camps, and/or structuring an economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons.

Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which while training them to earn more dollars, hypnotizes them into believing they are better than others and teaches them to think in terms of “we” and “they” instead of “us”.

So suggesting to people that they can work and have a decent standard of living is on par with genocide.

Do note the clever "Holocaust Denier" style of argumentation that turns "concentration camps" into the penal system and gang warfare into a product of a "social system" designed to bring about genocide.

250 TimeQuake  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:41:16am

I guess you can't cut and paste from a pdf file?

re: #208 Clemente


"Disavowal of the pursuit of middlesclassness" and worse "Those so identified as separated from the rest of the people by..."

That's some crazy preaching.

251 opinionated  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:41:49am

I hate the idea of Obama getting elected.

I have a nightmare that with such anti Israeli influence in the White House I might one day read a headline that states:

'US concerned over building in J'lem'


[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Maybe a Black value system in the White House would be superior to today's Saudi value system.

Or vote McCain and pray we get an American value system.

252 Rancher  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:41:58am

re: #245 mj

Like poor Geraldine Ferraro.

253 bulwrk  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:42:08am

It certainly has a soviet flavor to it.

254 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:42:11am

re: #244 Charles Oh brother. Ya know Charles, if you just made a seperate thread for that 'Middleclassness' section, maybe Fox or ABC or even, Heaven help us, AL-Rueters would pick up on it?!

255 Iron Fist  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:42:30am

The amazing thing that what is missing from this is a commitment to Jesus Christ, and the doctrine of Salvation through Grace, not of works.

It'd be nice if a "Church of Christ" injected a little Christianity into it statements about its core beliefs.

256 ThinkPiece  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:42:30am

I posted this in an earlier thread, but I think it bears repeating. Pastor Manning delivers a warning to white America about the perils of electing Barry as POTUS. He's not too keen on Hill and Bill, either.

This is not another flamboyant sermon like the "Mac Daddy" cut we've all seen in the past week or so. This is a calm, solo address to the camera and his listeners.

Note the part where he affirms Bill Cosby's positions. Interesting...

Pastor Manning's Warning to White America

/just a drive-by post. I'm outta here. BBL

257 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:42:54am

re: #233 Lucius Septimius

Ummm, comment function being snarky.

Everything's being snarky for me. I was on Firefox because IE 7 has not been working right with LGF; just got off Firefox and back on IE7 and things are OK right now.

258 Stratergic Thinking  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:43:06am

re: #110 Nevergiveup

Heres the problem with all these Hollywood types. She endorses Obama, then when the shit hits the fan, she runs for cover.

I heard on Laura Ingraham's radio show this am that Oprah left that church. She had been a member. Now you imagine how her mostly white audience would cotton to her going to a whitey hat'n church?

her ratings would crater so fast she'd be off the air before they could edit the next edition of TV guide.

259 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:43:40am

re: #39 MandyManners

How does one act white? Wear plaid pants and an Izod polo shirt?
What are they advocating?

Hey, how can you see me in Boston from Tennessee? Is there a camera in here?

260 Racer X  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:43:48am

How easy would it have been to craft this document in a way that promotes a positive spiritual message, while encouraging support of the black culture?

261 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:44:01am

re: #247 Racer X

No, no, you people got it wrong. Only whites are racist.

Not long ago I was at a prominent Methodist seminary and was perusing the "reserve readings" for courses. In one class, the main text was a book explaining precisely how only whites can be racists, and that no other ethnic group can be racist because racism is about power, and whites have all the power and oppress everyone else.

Mind you, this was for a class in Pastoral Theology. Lot's of hope and joy in that minister's church I'd wager.

262 BrianA  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:44:30am

re: #252 Rancher

Like poor Geraldine Ferraro.

Not even white Democrats can talk about race without being labeled as racists.

263 Rancher  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:44:30am

He will be our next President barring something bigger than this. The sink has been thrown, I don't think Hillary has anything left.

264 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:44:34am

re: #255 Iron Fist Hey Fist! That's because that church has nothing at all to do with Christianity.
Period.

265 kirche  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:44:59am

235 badsysop

What a joke. Obama = Finished.
------------------------------

you would think he'd be finished, but i doubt it. obama may have "officially" denounced the wright, and he'll continue to try and spin his way out of this, but that's just for the benefit of those outraged by this. black taqqiya if you will. but i believe that most US black's are glad the BVS is out there and they know obama's a part of it. this will galvanize the black vote for obama AND leftist libs who love anything that is anti-america.

obama's only task now is to dupe as many white americans as possible...

266 Charles  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:45:00am

"The captors." You know who that is, right?

The Man. Mr. Charlie.

267 David Simon  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:45:15am

re: #246 father_of_10

Me too. Growing up in a lower-middleclass family, I am proud of the stides I and my brothers have made to the middle-middle and upper-middleclass. That's a bad thing? I think not!

A while back, someone here posted a study of income mobility in America, proving that there's no reason to be terminally poor if you live in our country. Unfortunately, there are an awful lot of people who blame their lack of capital on anyone but themselves.

268 Spiritualized  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:45:26am
'US concerned over building in J'lem'

Israel should retort that it's concerned about the US building in Washington.

269 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:46:08am

re: #266 Charles

"The captors." You know who that is, right?

The Man. Mr. Charlie.

Crack that whip, cracker!

270 Silhouette  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:46:08am

re: #231 realwest

So you think it was changed simply because more people were seeing it?

Yes I do.

I cannot mindread, of course, but they changed it right after "the outside world" started visiting the church site to check out Obama's church. Also noted by critics at the time were some of the titles in the church bookstore.

What struck me most was that they carried a book (books?) by Nation of Islam writers. Unlike most real Christian churches, who don't care about your color as long as your writing reflects the Christian idea, they don't care about their religion as long as their color was right. Nothing highlights the churches loyalties better. Their decisions are based on race, period. (what was that definition of racism again?)

271 StinkHammer  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:46:10am

"Middleclassness"? There's a Marxian term if ever there was one. Brings to mind this movie dialogue:

TOM TUTTLE (newly brainwashed): Our enemies are all those in league with Imperialism! The bureaucrats, the big landlord class, the reactionary section of the Intelligensia attached to them.

SUVANA (ChiCom Leader): Very good, Tom -- you quote the Chairman well.

TOM: Our enemies are all around us. We must always be on our guard. Sure, we'll lose a lot of snooze time, but that's okay -- we'll catch up after the revolution's over.

SUVANA: That's enough Tom . . .

TOM: The leading force behind our revolution is the industrial proletariat; our closest friends are the entire semi-proletariat, and the petit bourgeoisie!

SUVANA: That's enough, Tom --

TOM: But there's so much more!

SUVANA: I said, that's enough!

Volunteers (1985)

272 faraway  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:46:15am

Trinity is not a church. Its a political organization.

Social Gospel: Less gospel, more racist politics.

273 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:46:17am

re: #241 WriterMom

Me thinks me should have written more clearly.

I should have wrote that the glaring absence of a commitment to America is noteworthy. Ga!

Why commit to America? "We didn't land on Plymouth Rock! Plymouth Rock landed on us!" X

Hate Whitey is a religion unto itself. While all that is going on, I will continue to try to "Do unto others as I would have others do unto me." and "Love my Neighbor."

Song from when I grew up

"If you worship America, You are unAmerican
I want to change America." etc.

However, if you hate America?...There are flights out every 10 seconds or so.

274 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:46:36am

re: #268 Spiritualized

Israel should retort that it's concerned about the US building in Washington.

Well it should certainly be concerned about US building in NYC. Dam cranes falling all over the place!

275 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:46:53am
276 realwest  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:47:10am

Well I'm still hopeful that Charles will make a thread just out of that 'Middleclassness' business, cause it might draw a LOT more Media scrutiny, but I gotta leave now - going back to the dentist. oh. joy.
Anyway I hope you all have a great day and that I get to see you down the road.

277 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:47:57am
278 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:48:06am

re: #276 realwest

Well I'm still hopeful that Charles will make a thread just out of that 'Middleclassness' business, cause it might draw a LOT more Media scrutiny, but I gotta leave now - going back to the dentist. oh. joy.
Anyway I hope you all have a great day and that I get to see you down the road.

I second that emotion -- that's worthy of serious discussion on its own.

(strikes yet another pose)

279 jcm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:48:13am

Middleclassness, where have I heard that before... let me think....

Replace bourgeoisie with middle class.

The bourgeoisie, wherever it has got the upper hand, has put an end to all feudal, patriarchal, idyllic relations. It has pitilessly torn asunder the motley feudal ties that bound man to his “natural superiors”, and has left remaining no other nexus between man and man than naked self-interest, than callous “cash payment”. It has drowned the most heavenly ecstasies of religious fervour, of chivalrous enthusiasm, of philistine sentimentalism, in the icy water of egotistical calculation. It has resolved personal worth into exchange value, and in place of the numberless indefeasible chartered freedoms, has set up that single, unconscionable freedom — Free Trade. In one word, for exploitation, veiled by religious and political illusions, it has substituted naked, shameless, direct, brutal exploitation.

The bourgeoisie has stripped of its halo every occupation hitherto honoured and looked up to with reverent awe. It has converted the physician, the lawyer, the priest, the poet, the man of science, into its paid wage labourers.

The bourgeoisie has torn away from the family its sentimental veil, and has reduced the family relation to a mere money relation.

The bourgeoisie has disclosed how it came to pass that the brutal display of vigour in the Middle Ages, which reactionaries so much admire, found its fitting complement in the most slothful indolence. It has been the first to show what man’s activity can bring about. It has accomplished wonders far surpassing Egyptian pyramids, Roman aqueducts, and Gothic cathedrals; it has conducted expeditions that put in the shade all former Exoduses of nations and crusades.

The bourgeoisie cannot exist without constantly revolutionising the instruments of production, and thereby the relations of production, and with them the whole relations of society. Conservation of the old modes of production in unaltered form, was, on the contrary, the first condition of existence for all earlier industrial classes. Constant revolutionising of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones. All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind. , wherever it has got the upper hand, has put an end to all feudal, patriarchal, idyllic relations. It has pitilessly torn asunder the motley feudal ties that bound man to his “natural superiors”, and has left remaining no other nexus between man and man than naked self-interest, than callous “cash payment”. It has drowned the most heavenly ecstasies of religious fervour, of chivalrous enthusiasm, of philistine sentimentalism, in the icy water of egotistical calculation. It has resolved personal worth into exchange value, and in place of the numberless indefeasible chartered freedoms, has set up that single, unconscionable freedom — Free Trade. In one word, for exploitation, veiled by religious and political illusions, it has substituted naked, shameless, direct, brutal exploitation.

Sound familiar?
Communist Manifesto.
Karl Marx.

280 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:48:14am

re: #259 Bloodnok

I was born and raised in Tennessee. I don't live there now. (I keep my location secret due to a violent X.)

281 Charles  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:48:18am

We joke about 'only whites can be racist,' but there are plenty of people, including many academics, who will make this argument in complete seriousness. If you see racism as a Marxist class/power disparity, it's impossible for the 'oppressed' people to be racist, because they don't have the power.

It's all so simple, really.

282 mountain  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:48:52am

As always, when a Democrat is in trouble, i watch MSNBC to see what the spin will be since they're a reliable regurgitator of Democrat talking points. This morning the spin was "Obama's church fights back". They went on to read the church press release without any discussion about it and said that Obama's pastor had angered some people with his comment that Hillary Clinton didn't know what it was like to be black. No mention of Wright saying G** damn America, or of Wright saying America was to blame for 9-11, or of the churches afro-centric/anti-white tendencies. So it looks like Obama and his disciples in the media will be playing the victim card as usual.

283 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:50:38am

re: #154 Ben Hur

From your link:

Jesus called the Pharisees whitened sepulchres or whitened tombs. So the shock rhetoric is not unusual in pulpits, black or white, but certainly in the black community because people have to have the point driven home, and they have to have made vivid. And sometimes the language can be awfully powerful.

See whitey? You honkeys don't understand that Jesus-and yes-he was a black man-he started this. Those black congregants just don't understand things without the point BEING HAMMERED HOME!

/spitoon

284 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:51:24am

re: #279 jcm

You BEAT ME TO IT.

Grr....

285 WrathofG-d  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:51:37am

See this is funny, because it reminds me of all the synagogues I have attended that preach that we Jews should hate all Christians for the Crusades, hate all Italians/Romans for the destruction of the Temple (and ww2), hate all Germans for ww2, hate all Russians for the progroms, and hate all Americans because of the KKK.

Oh, wait.....no I don't because it has NEVER happened.

(shoot, synagogues don't even allow you to dislike the Phakestinains even after a massacre)

286 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:51:53am

Too many of you are reading economic meaning into rule 8. Forget it. Despite mention of "class", it has nothing to do with economic class at all.

The "pursuit of middle-classness" is code for blacks who "try to be white". This is the Don't be an Uncle Tom rule. Pastors like Wright actively hate (yes, hate) blacks who move to nice neighborhoods, send their kids to good schools, work a 9 to 5, obey the laws, and vote their conscience. These blacks are annoying proof that you can be successful in America without "sticking it to the man". There are only two kinds of "good" black people to men like Wright. Blacks "trapped" in the ghetto, or rich blacks with one foot in the ghetto (i.e. blacks who use their wealth to spread and reinforce ghetto culture).

Also, blacks who work with whites, live with whites, and raise children around whites are particular targets of men like Wright's wrath. Anyone not towing an "us vs. them" mentality is a threat to the choke hold these 60's hangovers have on the so-called modern "civil-rights" movement. Call it the "Sister Souljah litmus test". 16 Years ago, Democrats had Sister Souljah moments. Now, they just get Sister Souljah endorsements. Progress? Uh, no.

The biggest story here is what so many people know but which has been politically incorrect to point out for so long: A large portion of politically active blacks are every bit as racist as they claim whites to be. It's simple projection. They assume we must be as racist as they are. And we've been making excuses for it for far too long.

Make no mistake: Obama's base is largely racist and hates whites (yes, even the white ones). His wife's a racist, too (I feel perfectly safe making that pronouncement). This is the divisiveness the so-called tolerant and diversity-loving Dems will foist upon us with an Obama presidency. Have you stocked up on ammo lately?

287 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:51:54am

re: #277 buzzsawmonkey

Pastoral?

Hey Circularcuttingdevicesimian! Long time no cyber-see.

More like "Wolves in Sheeps' Clothing."

288 Pope Insouciance IV  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:53:20am

I don't think we can have a real discussion on race in this country.
A real discussion would bring up topics, beliefs, attitudes that need to be heard, but which would instantly cause people to freak out.
A real discussion should be started by the universities, but God knows they aren't going to do it. In many ways they're making race relations worse.
The politicians are either too scared or are profiting by race baiting.
The church (real churches, I mean) just tries to treat everyone decently and hope that the attitude rubs off.

Sometimes I wish we could just have a big shouting match and get it over with.

289 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:53:26am

re: #281 Charles

We joke about 'only whites can be racist,' but there are plenty of people, including many academics, who will make this argument in complete seriousness. If you see racism as a Marxist class/power disparity, it's impossible for the 'oppressed' people to be racist, because they don't have the power.

It's all so simple, really.

Yes it is, and there are piles of books devoted to "proving" that insane point. There is an entire academic industry devoted to redefining "racism" in a way that insulates people like Wright from criticism.

290 Iron Fist  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:53:37am

re: #264 realwest,

No, his church has nothing to do with Christianity. It would be sad if it were not so dangerous.

He believes "God Damn America, and he may be elected President of the United States.

That may be sufficient to end their Union. If Obama isn't Left enough, California might leave.

If he is Left enough to satisfy California, the rest of us might decide to leave.

291 father_of_10  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:54:02am

So, let's see how they are doing:

1. Commitment to God Not so good considering the hate their reverend spews.
2. Commitment to the Black Community Chicago still have that terrific crime rate in the black on black crime? Not so good here either.
3. Commitment to the Black Family And their community's family violence rate, the "out of wedlock" birth rate? A failure here too.
4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education Right. their SAT scores are amazing, aren' they? How does this mix with their revulsion to "middleclassness"?
5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence Keep at it Rev'rund!
6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic This one is just BEGGING for it! I'll pass.
7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect I certainly wish they could get some progress happening here too.
8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness” The darn middleclass is such a heinous life! Disavow it!

I suggest coming up with a different sort of creed. Maybe a Bible-Based set of values.
9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community Just like #10. Give as much as you can to the pastor! Help out poor Jesse and Al!
10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions Give 'til it hurts!
11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System Certainly you don't pledge allegiance to the flag of your racist country! Put your back to the flag and your hands over your genitals during the national anthem.
12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System. Looks to me like that has been the problem.

292 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:54:22am
293 mj  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:54:48am

re: #252 Rancher

Like poor Geraldine Ferraro.


Yeah, she got hammered for making a factual statement. This is how the Obama campaign works. Label anyone who mentions anything critical of Obama as a Racist. The candidate himself says, "but, hey, wait, I never called her a racist". Right. Just everyone that works for Obama called her a Racist including the Obama shills in the MSM.
Talking about Obama's Church and his pastor will be labeled racist too. That race baiter David Axelrod is no doubt already talking to
Herr Olbermann about leading his show with that theme.

294 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:54:48am

re: #280 MandyManners

Oh, so you MIGHT be able to see my plaid ensemble. It's incomplete without the white hat. I hope you are taking that into consideration because without it....well I must just look silly.

btw- {Mandy}

295 strandedsf  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:55:00am

Some trivia for those of you who care:

I was living in Chicago in 1982 when the racial grievancemongers went wild after Jane Byrne refused to appoint their candidate, Manford Byrd, as schools superintendent.

She -- gasp -- appointed a white woman of Italian descent instead.

She then had the gall a couple of weeks later to replace a couple of blacks on the Chicago Housing Authority with non-black board members.

This precipitated a black boycott led by Jesse Jackson against City-sponsored events. Stevie Wonder even canceled a gig in protest.

Needless to say, Manford Byrd was a "respected" (i.e., illiterate) education "Ph.D."

Sorry to be so blunt, but the the man couldn't spit out a single coherent sentence.

It appears Trinity named their "commandments" in honor of Byrd. Note how even though "middleclassness" is against the Trinity religion, it's fine when you're trying to get a black appointed to head the third largest school system in the country.

As Mark Twin and Charles Dickens would say: "humbug."

296 father_of_10  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:55:17am

re: #263 Rancher

He will be our next President barring something bigger than this. The sink has been thrown, I don't think Hillary has anything left.

I think there is more to come. If we have this much this soon in the process, I think there are things that the H, camp have waiting for more opportune moments. I personally think O. is headed down.

297 Rancher  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:55:31am

re: #285 WrathofG-d

(shoot, synagogues don't even allow you to dislike the Phakestinains even after a massacre)

Israel’s number one problem.

298 Jfundie  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:55:52am
6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic

Hahahahaha. Ha!

299 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:56:13am

re: #295 strandedsf

But things got so much better after they ran out "Beat the Machine" Jane and elected Harold Washington ...

/

300 WrathofG-d  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:57:30am

re: #297 Rancher

Its a Jewish problem (or amazing characteristic).

We are a bit suicidal.
(as a people, I'm not!)

301 beblebrox  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:57:41am

re: #281 Charles

We joke about 'only whites can be racist,' but there are plenty of people, including many academics, who will make this argument in complete seriousness. If you see racism as a Marxist class/power disparity, it's impossible for the 'oppressed' people to be racist, because they don't have the power.

It's all so simple, really.

well, charles, you know it's been said by people smarter than I that the only communists left in the world are on the faculty of American college campus'. Perhaps we should add certain Black churches?

302 StinkHammer  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:57:51am

re: #281 Charles

We joke about 'only whites can be racist,' but there are plenty of people, including many academics, who will make this argument in complete seriousness. If you see racism as a Marxist class/power disparity, it's impossible for the 'oppressed' people to be racist, because they don't have the power.

Probably why I'll never be an academic. Dumb ol' me, I view racism as a mindset. The ability to act upon that mindset is embued by any individual's personal willpower. There's no "class structure" involved in what an individual personally believes or how they choose to act/not act upon a belief.

But then, I'm not a Marxist.

303 faraway  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:58:11am

GD America. Maybe Rev Wright was talking about Obama's nomination.

304 rappmandu  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:58:49am

re: #281 Charles

One of the great eye-openers in learning about other cultures and languages is discovering others also discriminate. Some use this knowledge to build bridges. Too many either try to deny it or abdicate their own responsibility by blaming it on someone else.

305 Rancher  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:58:50am

Follow the money. There is plenty being made by perpetuating victimhood.

306 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:59:49am
307 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 10:59:51am

re: #302 StinkHammer

But then, I'm not a Marxist.

That's the key difference, though rest assure the current crop of academic Marxists haven't read Marx either.

308 faraway  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:00:36am

I hope there are plenty of cameras rolling on July 4th.

309 badsysop  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:00:46am

re: #296 father_of_10

I think there is more to come. If we have this much this soon in the process, I think there are things that the H, camp have waiting for more opportune moments. I personally think O. is headed down.

There is plenty more. When the "issues" are brought up, I'm certain one can call him a gun grabber. The NRA won't be sitting still with this gun-hating democrat close to getting elected with the Democrats in control of both houses. Illinois is one of 3 or so states that one can't even carry a weapon with a permit.

And the NRA doesn't have to limit its commercials to "Barrack doesn't like guns". If they don't want him elected, they're going to promote whatever hurts him the most.

The MSM is going to shill for Obama, though. So this election may depend on those who actually get the word out about that guy.

Jesus christ...2 years in the senate and now this? WTF. I hope like hell he loses and his political career is finished.

Unlike many folks here, I can stomach Hillary more than Obama.

310 ec marm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:01:22am

Anyone living in the Chicago area ever hear about a boycott of Jays Potato Chips?

311 zmdavid  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:01:51am

Can I post a comment while the wheel spins?

312 Racer X  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:02:07am

re: #288 Pope Insouciance IV

A real discussion should be started by the universities, but God knows they aren't going to do it. In many ways they're making race relations worse.

Universities say they are all about diversity but that is a lie. Their diversity only includes color, sexual preference, or physical abilities.

Diversity of THOUGHT is strictly forbidden!

Just try to discuss America in a positive light and see how fast you get shouted down.

313 Opinionated  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:02:17am

If you want to get your eyes opened listen occasionally to "Black values" radio.

I haven't listened in many years but when I did I was amazed and disgusted.

I can give you many examples of the crazy stuff that is "taught" but a sufficient flavor will be this gem that stood out.

At the hight of the AIDS epidemic, the "comedian" Dick Gregory repeatedly told the audience to never use condoms.

Why? Because that's how "the man" is spreading the virus. It's in the condoms sold to blacks.

314 Silhouette  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:02:20am

Back in the 80s, Oprah had a show on about the lingering racism in America. It was about hosiery, bandaids, and maps.

Hose and bandaids were racist because their skin color wasn't the skin color of all Americans. As for maps, they were talking about the standard world map used in most schools, with America in the middle.

Because America is in the Northern Hemisphere and not on the equator, the screwing that comes from making 3-D into 2-D makes Greenland look the size of South America. They told us that it was done on purpose for the racist motivation to minimize the homelands of people of color, maximize colder climates and to show Asia cut in half.

Or maybe, just maybe, it could have been because this is America so they showed us in the middle. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Japan-o-centric map in Japan, etc.

315 BrianA  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:02:32am

re: #301 beblebrox

Not much difference between the Rev. Wright and old Ward Churchill.

316 Clemente  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:02:33am

re: #250 TimeQuake

Works OK for me. If you're opening it in Adobe Reader, rather than a browser plug-in, check that you're using the "Select Text" tool, rather than the "Hand" tool.

317 zmdavid  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:03:00am

re: #311 zmdavid

Can I post a comment while the wheel spins?

Yes I can, but now the "new comments" button is inactive.

318 StinkHammer  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:04:08am

re: #304 rappmandu

One of the great eye-openers in learning about other cultures and languages is discovering others also discriminate. Some use this knowledge to build bridges. Too many either try to deny it or abdicate their own responsibility by blaming it on someone else.

See the always brilliant Thomas Sowell's great Race and Culture and Affirmative Action Around the World. Both are quite revealing about that fact.

319 badsysop  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:04:17am

re: #308 faraway

I hope there are plenty of cameras rolling on July 4th.

I accidentally ordered a calander from the dailykos and on July 4th it says "Government nationalism propaganda day to support xenophobia and racism".

Don't even ask what December 25th says.

320 wolfie  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:04:18am

re: #15 MandyManners

I've been wondering about this for a long time. Can someone please explain this to me?

When I was a child studying geography, we kids used to joke that you could always tell when a country was un-democratic because it would be called the "Democratic Republic of Whatever." As children we thought this was hilarious.
But now I see that those who named their countries that way were quite sincere. There are two different notions of democracy. One (mostly Anglo-American) stresses equality under the law, consent of the governed, and the liberty of each individual to pursure happiness. But the other (mostly stemming from the French Revolution) sees "democracy" as rule by an enlightened elite that imposes equality, purity, and correctness on masses who are too stupid to know what's in their own interest. Needless to say, such imposition always requires a frightening Enemy from whom the masses must be protected.
Allowing for some obvious generalization here, it is the middle class that provides the great bastion of support for the traditionally American idea of democracy, which requires accepting responsibility for your own actions.
#122 - dgax65 asks whether Rev. Wright really thinks a black man should have to choose between being an NBA star or a crackhead, being a rap star or a jailbird, being a Sharpster or a welfare mom. Yep. That's it.
The last thing that the "progressive" elite, whether white or black, wants is for their innocent, oppressed charges to stand on their own two feet. I'm not saying that they want the underclass to be poor, mind you. But if that's the only way to keep them dependent, it'll have to do.
To be "middle-class" is to be independent.

321 uncleFuzzy  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:05:22am

re: #20 BulgarWheat

I wasn't aware that "embracement"was a word either.

Actually, according to Merriam-Webster's on-line edition, it is.

[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

As for usage, I agree that it may be inappropriate in this instance. But it is a perfectly cromulent word, all the same.

/semi-snark

322 father_of_10  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:05:59am

re: #314 Silhouette

Back in the 80s, Oprah had a show on about the lingering racism in America. It was about hosiery, bandaids, and maps.

Hose and bandaids were racist because their skin color wasn't the skin color of all Americans. As for maps, they were talking about the standard world map used in most schools, with America in the middle.

Because America is in the Northern Hemisphere and not on the equator, the screwing that comes from making 3-D into 2-D makes Greenland look the size of South America. They told us that it was done on purpose for the racist motivation to minimize the homelands of people of color, maximize colder climates and to show Asia cut in half.

Or maybe, just maybe, it could have been because this is America so they showed us in the middle. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Japan-o-centric map in Japan, etc.

Where did she propose putting the center of the map? In Kenya? Maybe the south Pole? I went to grade school in Lahore, Pakistan and the mapes we used had England in the center. maybe if the Afro-centric folks MAKE THEIR OWN maps, then they can out the center wherever they want.

323 Cognito  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:06:17am
Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another.

I can't lie, guys. I totally do that.

Just a little, though.

324 Maine's Michael  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:07:06am

Man, Black leadership just positively SUCKS.

Tear it down, rebuild from scratch.

Let people like Clarence Thomas, and even Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice provide role models and leadership.

Snoop Doggy, 50cent, 'Rev.' Jackson, Sharpton, OJ and the other losers and hucksters are not doing their 'community' any good.

325 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:07:10am
326 StinkHammer  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:07:59am

re: #307 Lucius Septimius

. . . rest assure the current crop of academic Marxists haven't read Marx either.

No, just the plethora of his bastard stepchildren which have infiltrated academic feminism, ethnic studies programs, etc.

327 Alouette  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:08:08am

re: #274 Nevergiveup

Well it should certainly be concerned about US building in NYC. Dam cranes falling all over the place!

Crane Collapse Barely Misses Manhattan Chabad House

328 Iron Fist  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:08:09am

re: #286 Lizard by the Bay,

Have you stocked up on ammo lately?


I have the weaponry that I feel necessary to protect myself. This may or may not include firearms. I have a superior Daisho, though the wakisashi leaves a bit to be desired :-)

329 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:08:09am

re: #267 David Simon

A while back, someone here posted a study of income mobility in America, proving that there's no reason to be terminally poor if you live in our country. Unfortunately, there are an awful lot of people who blame their lack of capital on anyone but themselves.

Here's one article by Thomas Sowell that discusses income mobility in America:
[Link: jewishworldreview.com...]

330 StinkHammer  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:08:51am

re: #326 StinkHammer

PIMF "which" = "who"

/pedant mode

331 mj  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:09:02am

Much of Wright's thinking can be traced back to Martin Bernal's idiotic book Black Athenia which postulated that the ancient Egyptians were really Blacks and that "Blacks Invented Civilization". This is foundation book for Black Afrocentrism. Mary Lefkowitz, among others, took apart the book in the early 1990's but it continues to hold sway among Black Nationalists. Here's some resources on that debate:
[Link: www.worldagesarchive.com...]

332 GGMac  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:09:04am

re: #14 Ward Cleaver

See Charles step on cockroach.

Step, Charles, step!

One of the best comments ever!

LGF, let's roll!

333 ariamne  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:09:32am

re: #120 jcm

A little OT, but relates to this report:
In 1989 or 90, Vassar College President Fran Ferguson invited Sen. Moynihan to speak at the College. A bunch of lefty radical students cited the report you referenced as proof that Moynihan was a racist. When Ferguson refused to disinvite him, the students took over the college administration building. Ferguson and the Vassar admin caved, and Moynihan was disinvited. I was employed there at the time and when I tried to get into the building to go to work I was told to "go home, this is more important than some office job". Tells you a lot about how lefty views the average worker, among other things.

334 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:09:45am

re: #295 strandedsf


That reminds me of a woman who was fired from a local hospital some years ago. She had worked in a prominent position in the hospital for 10+ years, but was then fired. She cried "racism" & spent the next year protesting every day in front of the hospital. How nuts was that? First, she worked for the hospital for over 10 years before the management realized that she was black & decided to fire her? Second, she spent over a year outside protesting - I'm not kidding, I walked by the place every day & there she was with her picket sign & bullhorn - instead of trying to find a new job? I don't get it.

335 Bubblehead II  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:09:59am

Well time to get ready for work. Swing shift sucks!

L8r

336 Rancher  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:10:06am

Issues won’t sway this election. We are pretty much split 50-50 left –right. This election will be partly decided by moderates and first time voters. It will, like all elections, be mostly decided by the economy. Obama wins on both. Unless the terrorists are stupid enough to hit us before the election, and I don’t think they are, or unless Hillary steals the nomination by backroom deals at the convention, Obama will be our next President.

337 beblebrox  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:10:20am

re: #315 BrianA

Not much difference between the Rev. Wright and old Ward Churchill.

nope. they both couch their words in so called "social justice"

338 Cygnus  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:11:01am

re: #6 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Ein Volk, Ein Vaterland,Ein Fuhrer

Jawohl, Herr Schwartzfuehrer!

339 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:11:06am

re: #326 StinkHammer

academic feminism

HOLY OXYMORON BATMAN!

340 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:11:17am

re: #314 Silhouette

Back in the 80s, Oprah had a show on about the lingering racism in America. It was about hosiery, bandaids, and maps.

Hose and bandaids were racist because their skin color wasn't the skin color of all Americans. As for maps, they were talking about the standard world map used in most schools, with America in the middle.

LOL. I buy "colored" bandaids because they get overstocked & wind up at the dollar store.

341 kansas  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:11:23am

re: #89 newsjunkie_ky

The black white double standard has always baffled me. At least admit it. There are no all white anythings but there are all black ones. That is right or wrong?

There's also the military double standard. No problem when the Dem hasn't served. Yet when he has, watch out.

342 Silhouette  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:11:45am

re: #322 father_of_10

The PC map is the Peters Projection

Proponents of the Peters projection map claim that their map is a good, fair, and non-racist view of the world.
...
Peters (his Ph.D. dissertation focused on political propaganda) (released) his "new" map projection that treated each country fairly by representing area accurately.

.. The media had a field day with this new map that supposedly made things right for the oppressed people of the world.

343 mj  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:12:50am

re: #324 Maine's Michael

Man, Black leadership just positively SUCKS.

Tear it down, rebuild from scratch.

Let people like Clarence Thomas, and even Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice provide role models and leadership.

Snoop Doggy, 50cent, 'Rev.' Jackson, Sharpton, OJ and the other losers and hucksters are not doing their 'community' any good.

Michael,
I agree, it sucks. But Jewish leadership both in the US and Israel ain't a whole lot better. While Jewish leadership doesn't consists of race hustlers, it is made up of appeasement hustlers.

344 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:13:41am

re: #326 StinkHammer

No, just the plethora of his bastard stepchildren which have infiltrated academic feminism, ethnic studies programs, etc.

Actually, none of them have read Marx either. Most of them haven't read much of anything, really.

I had dinner on Friday night (during the tornado) with a couple of reasonably prominent "neo-cons," one of whom admits having been a Stalinist in the late 30s and 40s before being thrown out of the party for not buying the "Trotsky is a Nazi Agent" story. Anyway, he was complaining about that -- at least his generation had read Marx and maybe on account of that, once they'd grown up a little, had come to realize just how stupid it was.

The current crop hasn't read any of it, and doesn't think it's necessary. When I pressed on self-styled "Marxian" scholar on that point, he said that everything useful in Marx had already been absorbed into the popular consciousness or some such rot. The real reason, I suspect, is that you really have to have some understanding of history and economics, not to mention German Idealism and Romanticism, to really understand what he's all about (beyond the Manifesto, that is). These people aren't willing to get that level of education. And at a deep level, I suspect that they know if they actually read Marx and Co. they might find something therein they might disagree with.

Standard practice in the left (and in Stalinist Russia, I might add) is to write a critical review of a book unread; one wouldn't want to sully one's authentic opinion on the subject by actually bothering to find out what the writer says.

345 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:13:53am

Anyone. Have you ever been typed a comment, been about to hit the "post this comment" button, then said out loud, "Ah, forget it." (or an equivalent) then deleted it without posting?

Yeah, it was like that.

Wait, is that...

[self-deleted]

? Then that was me too!

346 WrathofG-d  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:14:40am

re: #343 mj

Its coming. The youth get it. Don't wait around for the Hellenists. Rise above....go around..

347 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:15:03am

re: #290 Iron Fist

That may be sufficient to end their Union. If Obama isn't Left enough, California might leave.

If he is Left enough to satisfy California, the rest of us might decide to leave.

I know you hate Californians, but in our defense, our Dems actually chose Hillary (by a considerable margin).

348 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:15:52am

re: #344 Lucius Septimius

Actually, none of them have read Marx either. Most of them haven't read much of anything, really.

I don't think Marx even read what Marx wrote. Aren't a lot of Marx's writings still unpublished?

349 zmdavid  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:15:55am

re: #342 Silhouette

.. The media had a field day with this new map that supposedly made things right for the oppressed people of the world.

Things are so much better for them now because of the maps.

What about globes? Google Earth?

350 Silhouette  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:16:17am

re: #340 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I buy Spongebob, etc. bandaids because I have kids, I don't have any desire to "hide" the bandaid, and the "skin tone" doesn't really match any body on the planet (because even "white" people aren't shiny and plastic) so it is a futile effort.

351 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:17:04am

re: #350 Silhouette

I
buy Spongebob, etc. bandaids because I have kids, I don't have any
desire to "hide" the bandaid, and the "skin tone" doesn't really match
any body on the planet (because even "white" people aren't shiny and
plastic)
so it is a futile effort.

Outside of Hollywood, of course.

352 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:17:15am

re: #348 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Don't know about the unpublished part -- there is lots that is published, and much of it is totally incoherent.

Read "On the Jewish Question" and that's all you really need to know about Marx.

353 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:17:36am
354 StinkHammer  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:18:13am

re: #331 mj

Much of Wright's thinking can be traced back to Martin Bernal's idiotic book Black Athenia which postulated that the ancient Egyptians were really Blacks and that "Blacks Invented Civilization". This is foundation book for Black Afrocentrism. Mary Lefkowitz, among others, took apart the book in the early 1990's but it continues to hold sway among Black Nationalists. Here's some resources on that debate:
[Link: www.worldagesarchive.com...]

Keep in mind, there's also a tinge of Leftist Postmodernism influencing this type of thinking. A thoroughly insightful look at such disengenuous-yet-"esteem- inducing" notions can be found in such tomes as Higher Superstition and A House Built On Sand. Although those volumes tend to focus on the Postmodernization of science, they do touch on such nonsense as Afrocentrism. See also Keith Windschuttle's excellent The Killing of History.

355 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:18:17am

re: #343 mj

Agree with you completely.

356 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:18:24am

re: #353 buzzsawmonkey

The woven bandaids are much better than the slick plastic ones. Just sayin'.

But they don't match my android "skin" tone as well.

357 Silhouette  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:19:13am

re: #353 buzzsawmonkey

Are you saying they're better than Spongebob? Because I don't want to have to come over there and kick your squidward.

358 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:19:17am

re: #354 StinkHammer

I love Lefkowitz's book.

359 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:19:58am
360 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:20:38am
361 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:20:46am

re: #359 buzzsawmonkey

Are you protecting a wound or are you trying to set fashion?

I have to chose? Oh, the tyranny of capitalism!

362 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:20:53am

re: #4 BulgarWheat

I prefer this code, found on a glass block on my desk.

THE VIKING CODE.

1) Look for Opportunities.
2) Make Winners.
3) Be Brave.
4) Give Advice.
5) Think Constructively.
6) Take on Responsibility.
7) Look Ahead.
8) Settle on Research and Education.
9) Oppose Envy and Indolence.
10) Start Now.

363 Josephine  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:21:36am

Aaaack!

Redefining and trivializing history again!

"Placing them in concentration camps, and/or structuring an economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons."

Arresting, trying in a court of law (with lawyers paid for by taxpayers if necessary), convicting and imprisoning criminals is the same as the Holocaust... if some or all of those criminals' ancestors originally came from Africa.

Give me a break!

I'm starting a church right now and it is called The Church of Taking Responsibility for Your Own Actions. Please leave your historical grievances, and your wet boots, at the front door and get on with living in the here and now.

364 Dianna  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:22:28am

re: #177 Silhouette

*the racist organization with not only the name "The Race" but the motto "For the race, everything, for those outside the race, nothing."

Did they at least credit Mussolini?

365 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:22:32am
366 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:22:50am

More examples of "institutionalized racism"
Black olives are locked up in a can, while Spanish (European) olives are in a nice glass jar.
Black Coco-Puffs make you crazy, but white Frosted Flakes are "grrrrrreat!"
White rice is "enriched" but black rice is "wild."

367 Rancher  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:22:59am
We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian

Then why drop the Black Value System? Not because of increased traffic but because Obama's staff requested it.

368 mama winger  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:23:00am

Good afternoon . LGF friends. Winter has returned to the Wisconsin Illinois border. grrrrrrr

Has Obama withdrawn from the race yet?

369 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:24:02am

re: #345 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Anyone. Have you ever been typed a comment, been about to hit the "post this comment" button, then said out loud, "Ah, forget it." (or an equivalent) then deleted it without posting?

Yeah, it was like that.

Wait, is that...

[self-deleted]

? Then that was me too!

Many times I have done exactly that. I've even written stuff that would get me banned, and then simply erased it. Why? It feels better to type it out and delete it immediately than to simply hold it in.

370 Iron Fist  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:24:41am

re: #314 Silhouette,


Because America is in the Northern Hemisphere and not on the equator, the screwing that comes from making 3-D into 2-D makes Greenland look the size of South America. They told us that it was done on purpose for the racist motivation to minimize the homelands of people of color, maximize colder climates and to show Asia cut in half.

I actually have an officer's atlas from the Red Army circa 1947. In the spread of the world it shows the Soviet Union in the middle, but it still shows Greenland as almost as big as South America. Maybe that's because Greenland is almost as big as South America.

Interestingly enough, the map shows the USA twice, to indicate the wrap around.

My Russian is pretty weak, but I can read a map. It is interesting to see how Stalin's Red Army viewed the world.

371 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:24:45am
372 Racer X  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:25:03am

re: #366 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

More examples of "institutionalized racism"
Black olives are locked up in a can, while Spanish (European) olives are in a nice glass jar.
Black Coco-Puffs make you crazy, but white Frosted Flakes are "grrrrrreat!"
White rice is "enriched" but black rice is "wild."

LOL!

373 WrathofG-d  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:25:09am

re: #368 mama winger

Just read your "avatar". Very interesting as it seems he was just angry at the defiling of the Temple. What a very JEWISH thing to do.

(not so different than the Maccabees of Chanukkah)

374 StinkHammer  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:25:26am

re: #344 Lucius Septimius

Actually, none of them have read Marx either. Most of them haven't read much of anything, really....

The current crop hasn't read any of it, and doesn't think it's necessary. When I pressed on self-styled "Marxian" scholar on that point, he said that everything useful in Marx had already been absorbed into the popular consciousness or some such rot. The real reason, I suspect, is that you really have to have some understanding of history and economics, not to mention German Idealism and Romanticism, to really understand what he's all about (beyond the Manifesto, that is). These people aren't willing to get that level of education. And at a deep level, I suspect that they know if they actually read Marx and Co. they might find something therein they might disagree with.

Interesting observations. My point was that, while academics may not have read Marx directly, I found when I was in school that they were well-versed in those post-Marxian authors (such as Naomi Wolfe) who were topically fashionable and could spout just enough of the Marxian tropes to pass as intellectually viable "Marxists." My literary studies (my area of study), for example, were replete with various "modes" of criticism, not the least of which was the "Marxist view" (see the Norton Critical Editions of many literary classics, for instance).

375 saberry0530  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:25:54am

re: #365 buzzsawmonkey

I thought the Viking code was

1) Sail.
2) Land.
3) Pillage.
4) Rape.
5) Return home.
6) Repeat as needed.

NAHHH, that's the Viking work day.

376 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:26:52am

re: #364 Dianna

*the racist organization with not only the name "The Race" but the motto "For the race, everything, for those outside the race, nothing."

Did they at least credit Mussolini?

LOL! That was my thought as well when I saw that. Of course, being all about "the race", it's more Nazi-esque than Italian Fascist.

/Hitler was an early identity politics panderer.

377 Maine's Michael  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:26:53am

re: #343 mj

Fortunately, MJ, we have less need of our 'leaders'.

378 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:27:05am

re: #368 mama winger

Good afternoon . LGF friends. Winter has returned to the Wisconsin Illinois border. grrrrrrr

Sorry to hear that. It's nice here -- c'mon down for visit!

(love the topical avatar!)

379 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:27:28am

President Obama, brought to you by the thoughtful folks responsible for suing motherboard manufacturers over the racist "Master/Slave" relationships forced onto poor IDE devices.

380 zmdavid  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:27:29am

I put this on the early morning thread, but it is more pertinent here:


Basic assumptions of multiculturalism (in my opinion):
1. Your ethnic heritage is the most important thing about you and defines your culture.
2. Culture can not be modified or improved.
3. Cultures are defined as good or bad based on how much they have been victimized.
4. You can't criticize another culture unless your culture has greater victim status. If your victim status is greater, the truth of your criticism is irrelevant, it is valid. If your victim status is less, your criticism is invalid and racist.

381 mama winger  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:27:41am

re: #371 buzzsawmonkey

Which race? He has two to choose from, not including the presidential one.

On Mondays I work in the vet office alone, so I can listen to talk radio. Many African Americans were phoning in this morning, quite indignant at the media suggestion that this stuff goes on ' all the time' at black churches. They said no such talk goes on at their (biblical Christian) black churches. I don't think the anointed one is going to get away with this.

382 Bill Amos  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:27:41am

Tucker Carlson on "Trinity's Black values"

383 rappmandu  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:27:42am

Obama Church Whitewashes Black Supremacist Precepts

384 StinkHammer  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:27:51am

re: #358 Lucius Septimius

I love Lefkowitz's book.

Yes, I concur. I referred to it on a previous thread, and also saw your recommendation of it, as well.

385 jcm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:27:51am

re: #371 buzzsawmonkey

Which race? He has two to choose from, not including the presidential one.

5 -- White, Arab, Black, Human, or Presidential.

386 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:27:57am
Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system

Seduction just ain't what it used to be...

387 Maine's Michael  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:27:57am

Re: BandAids

'JnJ is keeping us down!'

388 ec marm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:28:10am

re: #369 Honorary Yooper

Many times I have done exactly that. I've even written stuff that would get me banned, and then simply erased it. Why? It feels better to type it out and delete it immediately than to simply hold it in.


There is some corollary to the "Iron Fist" rule, which states that if you have to wonder if anyone will care about something you write, they probably won't, and you should just hit 'new comments.'

This is an example.

389 turn  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:28:24am

I just can't wait for the day when the left will stand up and speak truth to BLACK power ...

/

390 mama winger  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:28:37am

re: #373 WrathofG-d

Just read your "avatar". Very interesting as it seems he was just angry at the defiling of the Temple. What a very JEWISH thing to do.

Jesus was an expert at Judaism. :)

391 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:28:54am

re: #360 buzzsawmonkey

Yes. So sue me.

My attorney.

392 Racer X  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:29:15am

re: #368 mama winger

Has Obama withdrawn from the race yet?


No, but he is definitely trying to hide from it.

393 Alouette  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:29:22am

re: #380 zmdavid

I put this on the early morning thread, but it is more pertinent here:


Basic assumptions of multiculturalism (in my opinion):
1. Your ethnic heritage is the most important thing about you and defines your culture.

I thought it was your sexual orientation?

394 mama winger  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:29:41am

re: #378 Lucius Septimius

(love the topical avatar!)

Thanks ! I was afraid I wouldn't be able to find an appropriate one. Then I saw this.

395 WrathofG-d  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:30:40am

re: #390 mama winger

woot!

396 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:30:45am
397 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:31:10am

re: #374 StinkHammer


My literary studies (my area of study), for example, were replete with various "modes" of criticism, not the least of which was the "Marxist view" (see the Norton Critical Editions of many literary classics, for instance).

Oh that's definitely true. They've all read the "Marxist view" without reading Marx, and for many of those lit-crit types (history is infested with them as well), they're getting their Marx third or fourth hand to start with.

The Norton editions used to be so sensible ...

398 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:31:27am
"Those so identified as separated from the rest of the people by:

Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another."

What madness is this?
What paranoia?

No good, these ideas, for our country, where we all should go forward together

"WE forward in this generation triumphantly"

399 Iron Fist  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:31:43am

re: #347 Lizard by the Bay,

I don't hate Californians. I'm just making a reasonable assessment based on what California shows us. They'd be happier out of the Union.

We'd be happy to let them go.

Hatred doesn't enter into the equasion.

400 Racer X  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:32:01am

re: #383 rappmandu

Obama Church Whitewashes Black Supremacist Precepts


Racist!

401 Roger  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:32:26am

re: #43 Thanos

I see a difference in that the Flemish aren't in America where they would either adapt to the opportunity or behave like the Wright's in spite of opportunity.

402 mama winger  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:32:58am

re: #396 buzzsawmonkey

Yes. The anger came not from the exchange but from it's predatory nature. The passage goes on to quote Jesus as saying "My house is a house of prayer, but you have made it a den of thieves."

403 bar  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:33:26am

My wife is going to collage and just last week (I cant remember what class she is taking) her teacher said that all human DNA originated in Africa, I laughed and told my wife that less than 5% of all DNA is known, the other 95% is considered “junk DNA” because its purpose is unknown, yet somehow they “know” where it came from? BS!

404 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:33:36am

re: #332 GGMac

One of the best comments ever!

LGF, let's roll!

I recently saw a Dick and Jane book at my kids' school. The teacher that had it said she had bought it at Wal-Mart recently. It was a pretty good sized book with lots of Dick and Jane stories in it. Boy, that brought back memories.

405 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:33:47am

re: #375 saberry0530

NAHHH, that's the Viking work day.

When I was in high school, we had a cheer we used at football games. It went:

"We're gonna Rape, Kill, Pillage and Burn
We're gonna Rape, Kill, Pillage and Burn
And Eat Babies!"

Stirring, but, needless to say, not popular with the administration.

406 ec marm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:34:26am

re: #402 mama winger

Yes. The anger came not from the exchange but from it's predatory nature. The passage goes on to quote Jesus as saying "My house is a house of prayer, but you have made it a den of thieves."


They had predatory lenders back then? I thought that was an invention of GWB to ''keep the man down?"

407 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:34:35am

re: #399 Iron Fist

Hey, I'm in California!

Charles too !

408 apb1  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:34:41am
Classic methodology on control of captives teaches that captors must keep the captive ignorant educationally, but trained sufficiently well to serve the system. Also, the captors must be able to identify the “talented tenth” of those subjugated, especially those who show promise of providing the kind of leadership that might threaten the captor’s control.

Eh - sounds like they're all too stupid to realize this is exactly what the Democrats have done to 'em. 'Cept those that 'show promise' are actually working with the captors Demokkkrats.

409 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:35:07am

re: #404 Ward Cleaver

We got a compilation of the original three books -- my kids absolutely love it. It was one of the first books my oldest son read on his own.

410 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:35:09am

re: #399 Iron Fist

,

I don't hate Californians. I'm just making a reasonable assessment based on what California shows us. They'd be happier out of the Union.

We'd be happy to let them go.

Hatred doesn't enter into the equasion.

As a Californian, allow me to say [deleted]

411 mama winger  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:35:19am

re: #405 Lucius Septimius

When I was in high school, we had a cheer we used at football games. It went:

"We're gonna Rape, Kill, Pillage and Burn
We're gonna Rape, Kill, Pillage and Burn
And Eat Babies!"

Private school, by chance ? (Must have been WELS. Too aggressive for ELCA.)

412 mj  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:35:29am

re: #396 buzzsawmonkey

Putting in a good word for the moneychangers, people who came to the Temple from all over the map needed to 1) change their money into local currency, and 2) buy sacrificial animals. The moneychangers were performing a needed service to out-of-towners.

Of course, they were probably performing it at inflated exchange rates, as the money-changing booths at international airports nowadays also do.

Isn't George Soros really just a "moneychanger"?

413 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:35:34am

re: #405 Lucius Septimius

When I was in high school, we had a cheer we used at football games. It went:

"We're gonna Rape, Kill, Pillage and Burn
We're gonna Rape, Kill, Pillage and Burn
And Eat Babies!"

Stirring, but, needless to say, not popular with the administration.

Of course it wasn't. You said you were gonna eat babies.

/Remember, it's all for the children.

414 Occasional Reader  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:35:42am

re: #314 Silhouette

Because America is in the Northern Hemisphere and not on the equator, the screwing that comes from making 3-D into 2-D makes Greenland look the size of South America. They told us that it was done on purpose for the racist motivation

BIG INUIT IS RIPPING US OFF!

415 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:35:52am

Iron Fist.

California is a big state. Really big. And there is a large swath of conservatism that runs through the agricultural heart of the state. Only the coasts are moonbat, and then really only the northern coasts (San Diego is pretty "red").

Fine, it's not about hate. It just might be about overly broad generalizations, though. After all, we have a Republican governor and elected Hillary over Obama. We don't come anywhere close to winning the "most moonbat state" award. Save it for more deserving states like Vermont.

416 Racer X  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:35:56am

re: #399 Iron Fist

I don't hate Californians Vermont. I'm just making a reasonable assessment based on what California Vermont shows us. They'd be happier out of the Union.

We'd be happy to let them go.

Hatred doesn't enter into the equasion.


Plenty of Californians are sane.

Vermont I'm not so sure about.

417 mama winger  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:36:11am

re: #406 ec marm

They had predatory lenders back then? I thought that was an invention of GWB to ''keep the man down?"

The things ya learn in Sunday School .........

:)

418 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:36:17am

re: #408 apb1


Classic methodology on control of captives teaches that captors must keep the captive ignorant educationally, but trained sufficiently well to serve the system.

Actually, that is kind of my memory of Junior High School.

419 turn  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:36:26am

re: #221 Racer X

A throbbing memo replacing "black" with "white" might be entertaining.

I like this idea, it would really emphasize the hypocrisy at play here. Unlike Rathergate the original in this case is not a fake.

420 rappmandu  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:37:01am

re: #400 Racer X

Racist!

There are plenty of racists on LGF. I'm not one of them. Nice try.

421 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:37:05am

re: #412 mj

Isn't George Soros really just a "moneychanger"?

In so many words, yes. I have a few other choice occupations for that dipstick than simply "moneychanger".

422 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:37:10am

re: #405 Lucius Septimius

KILL! KILL! HATE! HATE!
MURDER! MURDER! MUTILATE.

(We cheerleaders were forbidden to lead this one or even participate.)

423 mama winger  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:37:15am

re: #416 Racer X

Plenty of Californians are sane.

Vermont I'm not so sure about.

Someone could pick off Madison Wisconsin and I wouldn't feel too bad about it.

424 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:37:24am

re: #411 mama winger

Private school, by chance ? (Must have been WELS. Too aggressive for ELCA.)

Warren Township High School -- the Blue Devils!

425 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:37:28am

re: #405 Lucius Septimius

old school chant:

Thats alright.
Thats OK.
You'll be working
for us someday.

426 Chuck Pelto  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:38:09am

TO: All
RE: Chickens? Roosts? Anyone?

I seem to recall a report about how the good reverend made mention of 9/11 being the 'chickens coming home to roost'.

Seems to me that he might have been speaking about himself there.

As it is written in Proverbs....

12 A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth.
13 He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers;
14 Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord.
15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy. -- Proverbs 16

For the uninformed....


froward, adj., a person who is difficult to deal with.

As for all the emphasis on 'blackness', it's pure and simple racism. And, as I understand God and Christ, racism is not in His vocabulary.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. I do not celebrate the downfall of the reverend. Rather, I pity him and hope this is a lesson from Christ that he takes to heart.

427 Russkilitlover  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:38:42am

re: #399 Iron Fist

,

I don't hate Californians. I'm just making a reasonable assessment based on what California shows us. They'd be happier out of the Union.

We'd be happy to let them go.

Hatred doesn't enter into the equasion.

Ah. California-bashing the last safe group to pound on. And it's stunning how easy it is to generalize an entire state of mind of millions and millions of people.

428 Josephine  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:39:13am

re: #71 Psaturn

Thanks Charles for finding this....we were looking for that one specifically as they dropped the "black" part in the commitment.


By the way this article has a hair raising comment on Black Liberation Theology

[Link: www.atimes.com...]

Wow. Thanks.

429 mama winger  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:39:25am

re: #424 Lucius Septimius

Warren Township High School -- the Blue Devils!

Oh shoot! I remember you telling me you went to Warren. I know a lot of kids from our old youth group that went there too. No wonder they were so rambunctious ! :)

430 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:39:41am
431 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:39:44am

re: #422 MandyManners

KILL! KILL! HATE! HATE!
MURDER! MURDER! MUTILATE.

(We cheerleaders were forbidden to lead this one or even participate.)

I like. I might use it at the next faculty meeting.

These came from a Steve Martin routine iirc.

There was also "Die, you gravy sucking pigs" and "Go for a TD," said faster and faster. (at that point in my life, second base was a big deal)

432 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:40:10am

re: #415 Lizard by the Bay

Ditto for Illinois. Only Cook County is stark "blue" in a sea of "red". Our problem is that they have a population of 5 million out of a state of 11 million. That, and they cheat, lie, steal to win elections.

If Obama's the candidate, watch for voter fraud on an unprecedented scale.

/The zombie nation lives and votes!

433 Occasional Reader  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:40:10am

re: #426 Chuck Pelto

P.S. I do not celebrate the downfall of the reverend.

Good, that means more champagne to go around for the rest of us!

434 StinkHammer  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:41:01am

re: #397 Lucius Septimius

The Norton editions used to be so sensible ...

Since I was a "non-traditional" (older-than-average) student in college and not merely a fresh-faced young pup more susceptible to blank slate "indoctrination," I found myself quite often having read much more than the actual instructors (mostly the TAs, although sometimes the profs as well). It quite often proved frustrating. This was during the rabid heights of the Multi-culti/feminization/PC influx in higher education, and I was quite pleased to have some grounding before the spin doctors got to me. Those various Norton critical "viewpoints" were quite the rage, then.

435 Russkilitlover  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:41:18am

re: #416 Racer X

Plenty of Californians are sane.

Vermont I'm not so sure about.


According to latest data (heard on Dr. Dean Eddell's medical program this weekend), Vermont leads the country in both marijuana and alcohol use.

436 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:41:19am

re: #429 mama winger

Oh shoot! I remember you telling me you went to Warren. I know a lot of kids from our old youth group that went there too. No wonder they were so rambunctious ! :)

It was a pretty rowdy place; kids who liked to have fun, but were smart enough to get caught.

Lot's of great parties at Kettle Moraine state park.

437 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:41:43am
438 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:42:07am

re: #436 Lucius Septimius

PIMF -- smart enough not to get caught

439 Iron Fist  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:42:14am

re: #405 Lucius Septimius,

We did that cheer, once, to please me.

We got in trouble for it :-)

440 WrathofG-d  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:42:30am

re: #402 mama winger

They couldn't have done it outside?

/Wrath is always bothered by any sort of mixing of commerce and worship.

G-d doesn't require monetary payment.

441 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:43:09am

re: #437 buzzsawmonkey

Do lady Eskimos have feminine Inuition?

Only if their fathers don't find out.

442 StinkHammer  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:44:04am

re: #414 Occasional Reader

BIG INUIT IS RIPPING US OFF!

Jeez, that's funny. You bastard.

443 Charles  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:44:07am

Michelle Malkin linked to this post, so we're getting another surge of traffic. Hamsters are holding up so far, but the wheels are spinning a little slower.

(Geek question: Anyone have an opinion on the value of the Apache server 'Keepalive' setting? We have it set to 5 seconds here and I'm wondering if it's negatively affecting performance.)

444 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:45:17am

Here's something Obama should be speaking out against:

Fox: Report: Planned Parenthood Apologizes for Encouraging Donation Aimed at Aborting Black Babies

Planned Parenthood of Idaho has apologized after an employee encouraged a telephone donation aimed at aborting black babies.

Officials for the group said last month that the employee made a "serious mistake" encouraging the donation, the Idaho Statesman reports. But Planned Parenthood criticized the publication that made the call — The Advocate, a student anti-abortion magazine at the University of California-Los Angeles — for trying to discredit the organization by having an actor pose as a donor, the Idaho Statesman reports.

No surprise there, seeing how PP was founded by eugenics advocate Margaret Sanger. PP has been busy for many years trying to wipe out the black race in America.

445 zmdavid  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:45:25am

re: #393 Alouette
For my purposes "ethnic heritage" is a broad term that includes sexual orientation.

446 jpfletcher  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:47:01am

re: #425 experiencedtraveller

Kent Denver?

447 EC Marm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:48:55am

There's a very conservative, goody-two shoes group of cheerleaders in Norfolk, Virginia that taunt their boyfriends during the game:

We don't drink,
We don't smoke,
Norfolk,
Norfolk

448 Stratergic Thinking  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:49:14am

re: #314 Silhouette

Back in the 80s, Oprah had a show on about the lingering racism in America. It was about hosiery, bandaids, and maps.

Hose and bandaids were racist because their skin color wasn't the skin color of all Americans. As for maps, they were talking about the standard world map used in most schools, with America in the middle.

Because America is in the Northern Hemisphere and not on the equator, the screwing that comes from making 3-D into 2-D makes Greenland look the size of South America. They told us that it was done on purpose for the racist motivation to minimize the homelands of people of color, maximize colder climates and to show Asia cut in half.

Or maybe, just maybe, it could have been because this is America so they showed us in the middle. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Japan-o-centric map in Japan, etc.


THat's only because Oprah is retarded. I had a friend get me a map from Taiwan when he was there on business a long while ago. Care to figore out which country in the middle of their map?

Hmmm... America? Greenland? /sarc

449 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:49:24am

Feedin' time for the little one.

Later all.

450 Chuck Pelto  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:50:10am

TO: [C]Occasional Reader
RE: Drink Up

"Good, that means more champagne to go around for the rest of us!" -- [C]Occasional Reader

But will you be properly anesthetized for the 'corrective treatment'?

I doubt it.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[God is subtle. Not just plain mean. -- Albert Einstein]

451 mama winger  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:50:33am

Not sure if this has been posted, sorry for duplicating it if so:

Obama Says Argument Against "Middleclassness" Taken Directly From Scripture. "In his published memoirs, Obama said even he was stopped by Trinity's tenet to disavow "middleclassness" when he first read it two decades ago in a church pamphlet. The brochure implored upwardly mobile church members not to distance themselves from less fortunate Trinity worshipers. 'As I read it, at least, it was a very simple argument taken directly from Scripture: 'To whom much is given much is required,'' Obama said. [Chicago Tribune, 2/6/07]

452 Iron Fist  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:50:48am

re: #427 Russkilitlover,

It's understood that Hollywood sells Californication.


It wasn't me who wrote the song. Nor made the referant popular. California has its own reputation. That is all I was referring to.

453 mama winger  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:52:15am

re: #440 WrathofG-d

They couldn't have done it outside?

The verse talks about 'the temple area' .

454 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:54:04am

re: #446 jpfletcher

No. East coast but I'm sure others used it!

455 Freedom Fan  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:54:19am

Wow, turn over a log in a forest where the undergrowth has been decaying for 20+ years and watch all the disgusting racist cockroaches scurry for cover.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
-Louis Brandeis

456 m  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:55:40am

re: #420 rappmandu

There are plenty of racists on LGF. I'm not one of them. Nice try.

I don't think there are. I'm not saying there aren't any (just had to minus one) but I certainly don't think there are "plenty of racists" on LGF.

457 ladybug  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:56:48am

I guess that TUCC’s removal of that little black supremacist manifesto constitutes a real whitewash.

458 jcm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:59:30am

re: #448 Stratergic Thinking

THat's only because Oprah is retarded. I had a friend get me a map from Taiwan when he was there on business a long while ago. Care to figore out which country in the middle of their map?

Hmmm... America? Greenland? /sarc

I lived in Iran.
Care to just want country was in the middle?

Most countries that print maps they print their country in the middle.

Cartographers often put Africa in the middle, the Pacific ocean makes a nice empty place to cut the circle.

459 carl b  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 11:59:57am

The "black value system" link is still right on the church's home page - near the bottom, just below Mr. GoodSearch.

Click here to read about The Black Value System
460 bikermailman  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:01:58pm

re: #405 Lucius Septimius

When I was in high school, we had a cheer we used at football games. It went:

"We're gonna Rape, Kill, Pillage and Burn
We're gonna Rape, Kill, Pillage and Burn
And Eat Babies!"

Stirring, but, needless to say, not popular with the administration.

On the field, we use to say
"Blood makes the grass grow, Kill! Kill!"

461 Dianna  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:03:59pm

re: #376 Honorary Yooper

Mussolini said it first, he just didn't use race.

462 bikermailman  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:05:47pm

re: #447 EC Marm

There's a very conservative, goody-two shoes group of cheerleaders in Norfolk, Virginia that taunt their boyfriends during the game:

We don't drink,
We don't smoke,
Norfolk,
Norfolk

Of course, it sounds even better when you consider the locals pronounce the word 'nor fuk'

463 Josephine  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:05:57pm

re: #266 Charles

"The captors." You know who that is, right?

The Man. Mr. Charlie.

I just learned something new. Thank you.

464 Maine's Michael  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:08:05pm

re: #396 buzzsawmonkey

Of course, they were probably performing it at inflated exchange rates, as the money-changing booths at international airports nowadays also do.

Interesting point. In one of Obama's book Chapters, Formative Years 1.13:

'"And I, Barak, upon seeing the iniquity of the usorious money changers at O'hare, and their effects upon the poor and downtrodden, heaved by briefcase against the kiosk, so that the glass broke, and coins, both golden and silver, fell upon the floor. 'Come children, young and old, and take of that which Whitey has stolen from you, and fill your bellies with Popeye's Fried Chicken.' "

465 anotherindyfilmguy  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:09:28pm

Any manifesto that says you're being deprived of your birthright usually spells seditious trouble down the line from it's hardcore adherents... just ask the British about the insistence some pesky Colonists gave about "God given rights to all men" etc... Oh wait... I forgot for a moment that the manifesto in question only applies for one ethnic group... never mind...

466 Bard  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:11:25pm

re: #322 father_of_10

Where did she propose putting the center of the map? In Kenya? Maybe the south Pole? I went to grade school in Lahore, Pakistan and the mapes we used had England in the center. maybe if the Afro-centric folks MAKE THEIR OWN maps, then they can out the center wherever they want.

I dunno about the center, but having the Pacific Ocean form the edges sounds like a pedagogical winner, since very few land masses cross an edge that way.

But on topic: I'm actually starting to hope Obama wins the nomination; he's looking less electable by the hour.

467 mama winger  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:12:00pm
Theologically, Cone's argument is as silly as the "Aryan Christianity" popular in Nazi Germany, which claimed that Jesus was not a Jew at all but an Aryan Galilean, and that the Aryan race was the "chosen people". Cone, Hopkins and Wright do not propose, of course, to put non-blacks in concentration camps or to conquer the world, but racially-based theology nonetheless is a greased chute to the nether regions.


[Link: www.atimes.com...]

468 Freedom Fan  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:12:05pm

8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”
I've been wondering about this for a long time. Can someone please explain this to me?
-Mandy Manners

I haven't heard anyone else suggest this but to me there seems to be a not-so distant ring of karl marx and the communist manifesto which despised the "bourgeoisie" (middle class).

The productive folks under communism are murdered and brutalized so that the survivors will be so terrified that they will turn over their private property and work for the "people" (ruling elite) for free.

Coincidentally, this is what Obama's cousin, Raila Odinga, just tried to do in Kenya. Fortunately he lost but ended up declaring himself the victor anyway.

The protests escalated into unprecedented violence and destruction of property, leading to over 1000 deaths and the internal displacement of over 350,000 people. Wikipedia

469 anotherindyfilmguy  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:12:26pm

Pardon me if I'm suspicious of people who preach "Kill whitey" (and their adherents) for a living... Only apart of it self preservation instinct... the rest is a distrust of those who preach "kill [insert group]" for their own personal benefit...

470 chinesearithmetic  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:15:53pm

Papa was a running dog lackey of the bourgoisie, dog.

471 Pope Insouciance IV  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:17:50pm

re: #366 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

More examples of "institutionalized racism"
Black olives are locked up in a can, while Spanish (European) olives are in a nice glass jar.
Black Coco-Puffs make you crazy, but white Frosted Flakes are "grrrrrreat!"
White rice is "enriched" but black rice is "wild."

I hear that Froot Loops are just gay Cheerios.

472 wanumba  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:18:33pm

re: #21 bulwrk

A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
Whats stopping them from returning to the motherland if they so choose?


Simple. They aren't African. They stand out like sore thumbs in Africa.

(Met - nay had to LIVE with - a woman who embodied this mind-set, a bitter older Black American woman gliding regally into Africa dressed in a hand-painted kaftan with the mask of King Tut on it. Called all the white American girls Suzy-Q, said they all looked alike to her. She had arrived in the motherland to indulge in every mean fantasy talk-back she'd nurtured for years. She recorded everything she could that seemed authentic Africa to lovingly absorb it, not realizing until songs ended with "Drink Coke!" that most tunes were ad jingles. The Africans stayed about six feet from her - no closer, ever - and kept on wary eye on her all the time. Bitter, bitter, nasty woman who dished out everything that she'd cried all her life was wrong - to people who'd done no harm or rudeness to her ever. She did not develop any sort of rapport amongst her "people." Africans did not miss the two-faced act - they were not comfortable with her trying to cozy up to them after they'd just witnessed her insulting her own countrymen.

Africans, like everyone else, enjoy people with good senses of humor, anyone who is considerate of others and helps out. A cheerful smile and a kind word and a genuine manner is what begins bonding between people of every nation, not snarls and slaps and put-downs.

Mercifully, there are plenty of Americans of African descent who are repelled by this Liberation Mean Theology. Not talking about them. They are good natured, work hard, are a pleasure to be with and accomplish great things. Wish we would hear more about them for a change instead of the grumps, but then again, they are minding their own business and quietly getting ahead.

473 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:18:44pm

re: #321 uncleFuzzy

Actually, according to Merriam-Webster's on-line edition, it is.

[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

As for usage, I agree that it may be inappropriate in this instance. But it is a perfectly cromulent word, all the same.

/semi-snark

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHAHA

474 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:19:32pm

re: #324 Maine's Michael

Man, Black leadership just positively SUCKS.

Tear it down, rebuild from scratch.

Let people like Clarence Thomas, and even Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice provide role models and leadership.

Snoop Doggy, 50cent, 'Rev.' Jackson, Sharpton, OJ and the other losers and hucksters are not doing their 'community' any good.

So us white folk shouldn't idolize people like Axel Rose, Jim Morrison, Jim Bakker, Tom Metzger, and Ted Bundy?

475 Chuck Pelto  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:20:53pm

TO: freedom fan
RE: So Is It Written...

"Sunlight is the best disinfectant. - Louis Brandeis"-- freedom fan

...Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops. -- Luke 12:3

Maybe the good reverend, or his replacement, should consider a sermon that that. And add in something about the blogosphere.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.]

476 Silhouette  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:25:29pm

re: #474 CyanSnowHawk

So us white folk shouldn't idolize people like Axel Rose, Jim Morrison, Jim Bakker, Tom Metzger, and Ted Bundy?


What's more, white people can idolize Clarence Thomas and black people can idolize Thomas Edison. Men can idolize Margaret Thatcher and women can idolize Chuck Yeager.

IMHO, heros are heros because we wish to be like them in character, talent, perseverance, etc. Not because we use the same bathroom or look similar.

477 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:25:48pm

re: #347 Lizard by the Bay

I know you hate Californians, but in our defense, our Dems actually chose Hillary (by a considerable margin).

Yeah, California.

478 Egfrow  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:30:21pm

Oh My God, Literally! That Church is a Marxist Front!

479 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:31:01pm

re: #365 buzzsawmonkey

I thought the Viking code was

1) Sail. - Look for Opportunities.
2) Land. - Look Ahead.
3) Pillage. - Oppose Envy and Indolence.
4) Rape. - I am disavowing this one.
5) Return home. - Take on Responsibility.
6) Repeat as needed. - Start Now.

That's the short version, same ideas, different words.

480 quickjustice  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:31:37pm

I posted about this a year ago on a GOP website in NYC, and was promptly lambasted by GOP commentators for "inappropriately" calling attention to the odd, black separatist beliefs of Obama's home church. The United Church of Christ ("UCC") is as left-wing as protestant denominations get (their national leadership strongly supports gay marriage, for example), but advocating racial self-segregation is extreme even for them. On the other hand, each congregation makes its own rules, so Trinity UCC of Chicago does not necessarily speak for other congregations on these issues.

Rev. Jeremiah Wright introduced Obama to the UCC General Synod (national convention) in June, 2007. He personally had brought Obama to Jesus Christ, and performed his marriage. He was Obama's spiritual mentor. By their own account, these men were close. You can find the video here: [Link: www.ucc.org...]
Obama then made a speech mixing left-wing politics and religion to the convention, which gave him a standing ovation. Obama: "It's not a matter of policy or ideology-- it's a moral commitment." 'Nuff said.

481 monsonman  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:36:19pm

Holy "cartoon theology" Batman

482 wanumba  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:36:45pm

Just a reminder to all readers that Trinity Unity Church was linked to LGF MONTHS and MONTHS ago - and generated a lot of comments and feedback. Lizards were linking to the Trinity Unity site, displaying the TU church philosophy to a wider audience. There was plenty of warning and information presented about Trinity Unity AND Pastor Wright here - still available in LGF archives. Even if today TU stripped out their guidelines, much was pasted over at LGF and much can be retrieved.

483 GGMac  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:37:23pm

re: #371 buzzsawmonkey

Which race? He has two to choose from, not including the presidential one.

Didn't he already withdraw from the white race? You, remember - when he found his "blackness"? When he (apparently) decided to throw his whiteness (mother, maternal grandparents) under the bus?

484 marsouin  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:38:01pm

How is Wright different from David duke?

485 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:38:26pm
486 Freedom Fan  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:39:12pm

Say how about this "Congressional Black Caucus"? Does that sound racist to anyone? How about we start a "Congressional White Caucus"? Would that be cool with Charlie "Tax Cuts are Racist" Rangel?

487 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:39:38pm

re: #407 Ojoe

Hey, I'm in California!

Charles too !

And Zombie and me!

488 Charles  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:40:05pm

Uh, by the way, I see that readers of Sweetness and Light are claiming that I lifted this post from there -- and I'm going to say here that this is simply not true at all. I did not read his post.

LGF readers have been discussing this for months, and I've followed some of the discussion although I haven't posted about it before. It's not new. It just hasn't been widely covered. It's a little ridiculous for people to be claiming ownership of the story.

489 Roger  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:42:27pm

I'll bet rule #10 is especially dear to Wright's heart!

490 GGMac  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:43:07pm

re: #456 m

I don't think there are. I'm not saying there aren't any (just had to minus one) but I certainly don't think there are "plenty of racists" on LGF.

Yeah - truly there aren't many racists here at LGF. There are a lot of people getting more fed up by the day. There IS a difference.

491 Maximu§  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:47:53pm

I used to Hate Blacks......as a child growing up in downtown LA, every Black Man or Woman I saw was ether robbing, killing, destroying property, stealing or hurting someone.

When I joined the US Army, I met and worked with Blacks who I called brothers and my Black freinds were raised as well (or better) than I was and I LEARNED! I learned that there is good and evil in every race and creed, but it seems like Obama's chuch has not learned a God Dammed thing!

They need to REMOVE the word "Christ" and rename the church "Trinity United Black Church for Blacks Only"

Maximu§
3/11 ACR

492 TMF  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:51:16pm

More Wright: (from ACE of Spades):

"ISrael is a dirty word. You cant say that word around negroes because they are afraid to speak!"

493 mattm  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:57:11pm

Just last week I ate a a Waffle House in FL. While sitting at the counter I was talking with a very nice black man who was sitting next to me . Everyone was friendly and their was no hind of racism in any of the conversations I heard. Completely the opposite if "Rev" Wright "sermons" hate speeches.

494 ploome hineni[deleted]  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 12:58:37pm
495 brogers  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 1:21:57pm

I wonder if those people cheering on the good reverend during his bashing of the US and it's "rich and white controlled" culture would prefer to live in the Africa, where black-controlled culture rules. Us evil white folks sure seem to treat blacks in the US a lot better than the treat each other in Africa.

496 Sir Napsalot  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 1:33:33pm

No worry re: middleclassness (i.e. majority of the voting block)
It ain't targeting you!

Obama (and his church) is only trying to sucker those affluent white with exagerated guilt.

497 abolitionist  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 1:42:52pm

re: #412 mj

Isn't George Soros really just a "moneychanger"?

His true aspirations lean more heavily toward regime change.
Neil Cavuto's interview of George Soros Part 1
George Soros - The Bubble of American Supremacy

498 Spiny Norman  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 1:50:08pm

re: #477 debutaunt

Yeah, California.

You do realise Charles lives here in California, don't you?

499 Spiny Norman  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 1:53:28pm

re: #497 abolitionist

His true aspirations lean more heavily toward regime change.
Neil Cavuto's interview of George Soros Part 1
George Soros - The Bubble of American Supremacy

Soros is as close to a real-life James Bond villain as we're likely to see.

I read somewhere that he claimed to have brought down the USSR all by himself.

500 Jewels  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 2:12:57pm

So, in Obama's upcoming speech, in order to completely "distance" himself from "that guy", he's going to have to deny

#1 Ever hearing Wright say something controversial. Ever
#2 Ever hearing anyone in the congregation say something about something that Wright said. Ever.
#3 Ever reading his own church's website
#4 Ever reading his own church's bulletin.

How likely will that be?

501 Lizard by the Bay  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 2:27:46pm

re: #500 Jewels

So, in Obama's upcoming speech, in order to completely "distance" himself from "that guy", he's going to have to deny

#1 Ever hearing Wright say something controversial. Ever
#2 Ever hearing anyone in the congregation say something about something that Wright said. Ever.
#3 Ever reading his own church's website
#4 Ever reading his own church's bulletin.

How likely will that be?

Very likely. He'll do it. He's already basically done it.

The better question is, "Who will buy it?"

His black supporters know he's just doing what "whitey" requires of him, and that he doesn't really mean what he says when he repudiates Wright. His white supporters will just crow, "See, we told you so" (the very definition of useful idiots). The Obama-loving media will say, "Good enough for us," and move on.

Obama is a Teflon candidate. Nothing will stick to him so long as everyone sticks to the script.

502 captkirk35  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 2:29:42pm

Good God, the logic of their sentence about the "Middleclassness" is nearly nearly indecipherable.

503 captkirk35  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 2:34:40pm

Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which while training them to earn more dollars, hypnotizes them into believing they are better than others and teaches them to think in terms of “we” and “they” instead of “us”.

So, while it is permissible to chase “middle-incomeness” with all our might, we must avoid the third separation method-the psychological entrapment of Black “middleclassness”: If we avoid the snare, we will also diminish our “voluntary” contributions to methods A and B. And more importantly, Black people no longer will be deprived of their birthright, the leadership, resourcefulness, and example of their own talented persons.


Oy' !

What a mess.

504 reno911  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 2:51:01pm

Black Liberation Theology is just repackaged Marx/Engels - Hassan al Bana - Muslim Brotherhood doctrine.

It's been going on in Black Churches since oh....1968 or so. What's that, 40 years? Another 20 years and the US will have a serious fifth column issue, from our own citizens.

Let's see, Marxism...Russia...Islam...Iran...Black Liberation Theology...CAIR. Anybody notice anything?

I'm thinking it will be ugly WTSHTF.

Late.

505 NY Nana  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 3:03:16pm

re: #257 reine.de.tout

I am on IE7, and all of a sudden, starting last night, I have had no luck with the advanced search function...the calendar will not work.

506 NY Nana  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 3:06:44pm

OT: Florida Democrats Abandon Plan for Mail-in Primary Re-Do

Florida Democrats have abandoned plans to redo the presidential primary with a mostly mail-in vote.

Party leaders had expressed concerns about the proposal. The party plan was to run a second primary to seat the state’s delegates at the August convention.

The state party considered the idea because the Democratic National Committee is refusing to award delegates based on Florida’s Jan. 29 primary, in which Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton won. The DNC stripped Florida of its delegates because party rules didn’t allow the state to vote before Feb. 5.

/Shrillary must be thrilled.

507 JabbaTheTutt  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 5:24:58pm

re: #194 Charles Oh geez, now I'm more confused than ever. You said "The Internet Archive shows that the page was edited sometime between March 15, 2007 and March 29, 2007."

So what does March 8th of this year have to do with it? Seems to me that something happended either during March 15 '07 and March 29 '07 or just before or just after that time period. Again, does anyone know when Obama declared his candidacy?

Well, Hannity & Colmes interviewed Rev. Wright for his first, last and only interview on March 1, 2007. Here's the link to YouTube:

Obama officially announced his candidacy on February 10, 2007.

So, here's the storyline as I see it. Obama announces on February 10th. 3 weeks later, to bask in the glow and get some national tv time, Rev. Wright goes on Hannity & Colmes and gets asked about the "Black Values" stuff. Either the Rev. Wright sees the problem and tries to take himself out of the picture or Obama operatives see it (more likely) and get Obama to ask his mentor to put a sock in it.

The campaign and media from then on, ignore the Rev. Wright and cross their fingers that they've dodged the big one. Obamamania ensues, the Messiah arrives until Saturday Night Live punctures his bubble. Suddenly, the MSM actually asks The Obamamessiah a couple of questions. People ask what else is there; and suddenly there's some interest in in Obama's pastor.

508 bcgirl  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 8:40:24pm

thanks for the repost though,, i just got here,, anyway,,
spit, what a spin he is trying to make, "upwardly mobile" not to distance them selves fromthe less fortunate, is only part of it,, what about HONESTY, osamabamarama?

re: #451 mama winger

Not sure if this has been posted, sorry for duplicating it if so:

509 bcgirl  Mon, Mar 17, 2008 8:47:20pm

reno911, i am agreeing with you 100% on your last sentence here and real happy to know there is a lizard that at least might be in my general area.
ya now, there is some darn nice hills with caves and canyons round these parts,, WTSHTF that is

re: #504 reno911

Black Liberation Theology is just repackaged Marx/Engels - Hassan al Bana - Muslim Brotherhood doctrine.

It's been going on in Black Churches since oh....1968 or so. What's that, 40 years? Another 20 years and the US will have a serious fifth column issue, from our own citizens.

Let's see, Marxism...Russia...Islam...Iran...Black Liberation Theology...CAIR. Anybody notice anything?

I'm thinking it will be ugly WTSHTF.

Late.

510 littleO  Tue, Mar 18, 2008 6:31:30am

Liberation Theology was discarded by the Catholic Church and Pope John Paul II forbade any practice, or teaching of it by Bishop, or Priest. So, the proponents of this pathology have soldier on to apply their malfeasant cures for the social ills of the world to any entity that will accommodate radically revolutionary goals. These teachings of Rev. Wright are right from the play book of a Malcolm X.
On a good note, however, this morning, on Fox news, a ABC radio personality, a black man, condemned the preaching of Rev. Wright considering the children who were in the audience. Denouncing the poor sociological affects of such speech on the young impressionable mind.


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