Being muslim ought to carry the same negative stigma as being communist did in the '50s. We need to confront it as the enemy and draw the line in the sand.

These people testing chemical weapons on dogs are eager to use this on 'infidels' and jews. And they have the support of muslims everywhere.

There is no outcry from 'decent' non-fundamentalist muslims against terrorism. They support it heart and soul.

Leave it to CNN. "A clip a day is the profit way".
No use in informing the public right away on this. Business first.
Hey, maybe they can come out with a feature film after they milk it bit by bit.
I'm sure I can come up with a great ad for this one.
"DOGS WITH GAS"
Staring Osama Bin Laden - with special guest appearance by Saddam Hussein!
COMING IN TO A THEATER NEAR YOU! WHENEVER.

Sorry, no graphic folks. I'm waiting for the dead dog pictures.

Don't know the symptoms (and haven't seen the pictures) but the 'gas' might be an orthophosphate dating from the WWII period. From Real Fascists to Islamofacists.

Also don't know the trivial name, SENEX(??). These are a class of 'two part poisons', easily deliverable by shell or rocket or whatever.

The orthos are DEADLY. One drop on the skin is fatal to humans (nervous system poison).

Just the thing for friend Saddam to get his paws on.

Cheers

Anyone else here think that

1) CNN has been sitting on these b/c the government said to

2) CNN is no longer sitting on these b/c the government said not to

3) we're in for some chemical attacks as soon as our boys reach Bahgdad?

4) we're being prepared for it and desensitized to it by Rummy saying things like "well, you've got to understand that hundreds of thousands of people are going to die" and this constant terror talk?

Yeah, #1 does make a good point - where are the so called "peace loving muslims" to say that this doesn't represent their islam?

Are they
A) Cowed by the psychopath fundamentalists?
B) Sorta like Santa Clause?

You're not the only one, CP--that was the first thing I thought too. You think CNN might also be sitting on proof that the chemicals were provided by Iraq?

If only this kind of information would get spread around the eco-freaks, the loony liberals would lose one of their most fanatical fanbases.

Bah, who am I kidding? They would just find a way to blame America or Israel for the deaths of those poor, innocent canines.

My first thought when I saw this CNN story was that FINALLY something would get through to the Berkeley liberals about how evil Al Qaeda is. While killing thousands of Americans apparently isn't enough reason to get upset at Arab fanatics, let alone counter-attack them, in Berkeley they take animal abuse of any kind very, very seriously.

Everyone knows that these tapes are Zionist forgeries. Just like September 11, which never happened... and if it did, it was because the Zionists planned it... and even if you can prove that the Zionists didn't do it, then it's because of the US policies in the middle east...

The Zionists spread this propaganda just to make us look like cruel sadists. When we find the evil Zionists who made this tape, we will pour molten plastic in their ear, put nails in their legs and slowly slash their throats...

Cowardly Pundit,

For you I will type in excerpts from the editorial from the August 2002 edition of NewsMax.com Magazine. It has a direct bearing on what you are saying. I already did this several days ago on some other thread, but no one commented on that much. I thought it was breathtaking, myself. I hope I don't get into any copyright trouble by reprinting the Newsmax article. My comments are in brackets.

War with Iraq by Christopher Ruddy

"The mounting signs indicate that Iraq is in the crosshairs.

For example, a day after President Bush laid out his domestic homeland defense strategy in mid-July, Alabama's governor activated an Army National Guard tank battalion unit.

Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman explained the call-up of the elite 300-member tank unit with it's contingent of M1A1-Abrams tanks as part of an effort to "serve in the homeland defense role within the US."

Siegelman also called out another unit, this time more than 200 Guardsmen from Special Forces units. [I had no idea Special Forces men could be reservists. I thought it was an all or nothing type deal, but I digress.]

The soldiers have been told that this is not a short-term call up. Deployments will last one or two years. Such call-ups are apparently taking place around the country.

We doubt that the Pentagon expects to use M1 Abrams tanks and Special Forces in American cities. On to Iraq?

The implications of a war with Iraq are significant. Military planners may be more concerned about what Saddam may try to do here in the U.S. that with an American invasion.

Saddam is believed to have his own network of sleeper cells right here in the U.S., totally independant of Al Qaeda. Saddam also may have nuclear, biological, and chemical material already smuggled into the U.S.

Apparently, the federal government is planning for worst case-scenarios.

FEMA, the federal agency charged with disaster preparedness, is engaged in a crash effort to prepare for nuclear, biological, and chemical attacks against U.S. cities.

The agency plans to create emergency makeshift cities that could house hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans who would have to flee their urban homes if their cities are attacked.

The agency has already notified vendors, contractors, and consultants that it needs to be prepared to handle the logistics of aiding millions of displaced Americans.

Ominously, FEMA has been given a deadline of having the cities ready to go by January 2003--in about six months [take that, all of you who think we should have been in Iraq yesterday].

A source familiar with the deadline (I know two people who have participated in the FEMA meetings on this) believes the effort is related to making the U.S. prepared if the U.S. invades Iraq.

FEMA currently is seeking bids from major real estate firms to handle the logistics and planning for these temporary cities.

FEMA officials have told these firms they already have tents and trailers ordered. The tents and trailers would provide shelter for displaced populations.

The real estate firms are expected to provide engineers and architects who will lay plans for emergency infrastructure needs, such as sewage and electricity.

It looks as if we will be going to war with Iraq and serious preparations are being made. I'm all in favor of this--as long as we have evidence linking Saddam to the Sept. 11 attacks. If not, we should consider another way of going to war."

From this point, he states that if we can't find the proverbial smoking gun, then we should pursue a "lower intensity war," in which we send in CIA spooks/Special Forces people in to assassinate terrorists and their backers. I personally think that it would be better to break the back of the biggest terrorist supporters (Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc) in overt action rather than try to hunt down all the individual terrorists in their various holes around the world. Some combination of the two options is probably best.

Condolezza Rice and President Bush have been going on and on about how evil Saddam Hussein is (and he is very evil), his possession of WMDs may not be the only reason we are going to Iraq.

Over in the Death Cult Summer Camp Grads thread, I responded to a post by Carl that linked to a couple of articles from the Asia Times, one of which is excerpted below.

[Link: www.atimes.com...]

Saudi Arabia next in line?
By Pepe Escobar

"The US imports half of its consumption of oil. It is desperately trying to get rid of its dependence on Saudi Arabia and Venezuela by importing more from Africa and by an ever closer cooperation with Russia. America's hawks and the oil lobby consider control of Iraq absolutely essential to finish off American dependence on Saudi oil. No amount of spinning will disguise that this is the real reason for the war.
But at the same time this is the main reason for the Saudi opposition to an attack. The American officials most hawkish on Iraq are by no coincidence the most hawkish on Saudi Arabia. Leaks to the press, such as the recent obscure Rand Corporation analyst report denouncing Saudi Arabia are nothing more than a smokescreen to disguise what really drives the Americans crazy: the increasingly good relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran, and Prince Abdullah's interest in really finding a solution for the Palestinian tragedy.
Gulf diplomatic sources confirm that the Saudi royal family has been closely monitoring the mood of the Arab street regarding Ariel Sharon's devastating "policies" in Palestine. The Arab street is undeniably silent. So the Saudi family is not worried about a violent popular reaction in the event of an invasion of Iraq. But its more conservative elements definitely worry about the transformation of Iraq into an American base. Iraq is potentially richer than Egypt, and it is invulnerable to Wahhabi proselytizing. Saudis believe that in the long run, with the de facto annexation of Iraq as a client regime, America would inevitably turn against Saudi Arabia."

The invasion of Iraq is just the first step towards truly cleaning house in the Middle East, a fact most of us agree with. Over in the University of Death thread, Libertarian Uber Alles posted:

"NYT had it right with inside out, exce3pt they weren't thinking broadly enough. Iraq gets us in the center, while we have secure bases in a ring aroud the region. With a secure base in Iraq, we hve infinitesimal supply lines and can strike at will, in a pincer movement no less, at Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Controlled Arabia, Sudan, Syria, and Lebanon. We also have extremely easy routes to go after Egypt and Lybia.
That kind of strategic and tactical power allows us to win in the best way, without having to fight. The pucker factor of having unrestrained US action launched from less than a 2 hour flight (in some instances it's more like 15 minutes) is considerable. When you compare US power in Afghanistan with GW1, you'll see that we had more than enough ability despite the long, long, long flight lines. Missouri was one of the main forward bases!! Now would you wnt to see what we can do given thousands of mile of borders, our own goddamned pumps and refineries, air focrce bases beyond belief, and flat as the eye can see desert to build on? It's like trying to invade goddamn Kansas: even in your dreams its a nightmare. Add the fact that we can attack everyone from at least 3 vectors (carriers, Iraq, and then one of Israel, Turkey, Afghanistan, all the other *stans, Georgia, Qatar, Oman, Yemen...). Even the US air defences couldn't defend against that with only missiles and AA, but sending up guys for Air-to-Air just helps our pilots jockey for promotions."

So there you have it. I didn't include another excerpt from an Asia Times Article about how there are already over 100,000 men and women in the region (as of July), and that the war against Iraq actually started in March because I figure that by now you've already got the point. Sorry for the long post, but I believe in being thorough. I hope this causes some on this board to give Bush a little bit of a break. The pieces are starting to fall into place. The man's not perfect, but he is smart. I think he's going to get the job done.

PETA will be eerily quiet about this...wait, most of PETA's money goes toward euthanizing animals. I guess they'll nod their heads in quiet approval.

Re: #7

Skeptical Observer is right...killing the pups as mere practise for later killing the non-believers just MIGHT get the attention of the anti-war left, but I doubt it.

Oh goodness, Charles! Did you have to post a picture of that adorable little dog? Now I'm not going to be able to get the image of that poor dog suffering out of my head! Thanks a lot.

Ugh.

Gotta agree with the previous postings. Maybe this will wake up the lefty-Berkelyites out there. Horrible.

And FYI Greg (post #1), I know many Muslims here in Los Angeles. All think that the acts perpretrated by the Taliban (and Wahhabis and Saddams for that matter) are abominable, and I seriously doubt that they'll approve of this chemical weapons tape...

Ok, just finished reading the article

Now I'm officially freaked

Gotta agree with Mike C. in #13, although I don't know any Muslims personally. We must not lump all toghether. For anyone who doubts this go over to muslimpundit (lCharles has a link) and read Adil Farood's long but trenchant posts. Considering that Muslims who speak out or act against the Islamofascists have sometimes been killed (as in the Rushdie Fatwa affair) it takes courage for them to speak.

Things are getting deadly serious. We may not be able to afford as much time as one would like before destroying the Iraqi regime, if it does have sabotage cells in the US capable of chemical and/or biological attack. So the perennial cry goes up: Faster, faster.

Michael Lonie, Salman Rushdie is alive and well. He had to go underground for a while, but he even gives interviews.

Riyadn delenda est!

Brandi: interesting thought about preparations.

And NOW do they understand? do they realize? do they believe? We have been telling these thickheaded idiotarians over and over again in detail, with evidence, with substantive, soundly reasoned arguments just how dangerous terror organizations like al qaeda are. And why we need to destroy their ability to attack us and the world.

I guess the only thing that drives it home to these morons is a dog getting gassed on tape.

Faster, faster, oh yes, faster, faster baby, do it faster, yes, Yes YES ohhh yes faster baby, faster, uh huh, faster, faster...

I recall being a young lad during the cold war, unable to sleep because I was worried about the Russians attacking us.

Now I have a different reason to lose sleep.

And I get cranky when I don't get enough rest.

More info on the Iraq Attack:

Apparently, despite State Department squeamishness, the US is starting to get tough on it's Arab "allies."

Back us against Saddam or else, US tells Arab states
By Alan Philps in Amman

[Link: news.telegraph.co.uk...]

The quote concerning Qatar was most interesting to me:

"The Gulf war of 1991 was run from the Prince Sultan air base in Saudi Arabia, but that option is not available.
This puts the spotlight on the tiny emirate of Qatar, where the Americans are rushing to finish off a vast airbase at al-Udeid, with one of the longest runways in the Middle East.
When completed by the year's end, it will be able to hold 10,000 soldiers and 120 aircraft in hardened shelters designed to withstand biological or chemical attack.
Qatar is something of a maverick among Arab states, and would no doubt relish becoming Washington's favourite in the Middle East."

So, the al-Udeid airbase will be finished by the end of the year, and FEMA is expected to have it's emergency plans complete by January. It appears that we may be moving early next year, but not necessarily. It's getting more and more interesting. The article ends with:

"The Arabs face a brutal choice. America's only allies in the region are non-Arab Turkey and Israel. If the Arab world is to be allowed at the top table of negotiations, it will have to put aside its concerns at Washington's humiliation of Iraq and adopt a policy of realpolitik."

Yeah, America will have to go it alone. Right.

From Yahoo News:

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

I saw the clip of the dog being gassed this morning on CNN. I wish I hadn't; it's absolutely beyond description. Please, if you get a chance to see the video in the next few days, think twice.

These days, I like dogs better than I like Muslims, anyway.

i seem to repeat myself but where are the moderate muslims?
what do they have to say regarding the al quaeda tests on animals.
or once again is it a plot by the 'zionist entity' and the americans.

Brandi,

Great work on your post. Thanks for consolidating it.

By the way, have you driven by the Yuma Air Force base lately? Hopefully the hangers are empty and the pilot parking lot is empty as well.

I really don't think any moslems will be too bothered by a dog being gassed, as the islam cult regards dogs as unclean anyway.

Jack,

I have a friend that's working for a private defense contractor in Yuma. His security clearance hasn't come through yet, so communication with him is kind of sketchy. I could ask if he's noticed any increase in activity, but on second thought, he just got the job, and I don't want to put him in that position. I'll just assume that all major air bases are experiencing serious ramping-up.

Isn't this proof that the Islamist terrorist will use any available means to kill as many people as possible? First it was car bombs, then turning airplanes into cruise missiles, then strapping explosives onto willing "martyrs." Now, we see them using chemical weapons. How long until they try setting a nuke off in a major U.S. city? Preventing terrorist access to these kinds of weapons is another reason to liberate Iraq. The longer Saddam is in power, the greater his chance to build a nuke and pass it along to a terrorist.

Cato,
I know Rushdie is alive (and renounced his book in an unsuccessful attempt to deflect the murderers). Others were killed though, including at least one prominent Muslim (in Belgium IIRC) who verbally defended him. Crossing the Islamofascists, even verbally, is dangerous.

NC (#22):

I read your comment this morning, and I kept thinking about it for some reason. Tonight I happened to turn the TV on as CNN was showing that video, and got as far as the sandals running out the room. I couldn't watch. That sweet dog. I wanted to cry and I didn't even watch it!

Thanks for the heads up because I would have watched and I know it would haunt me forever. Sorry that you watched it. Cruelty is very hard to stomach, isn't it?

#1 is a purebred moron. I am not a muslim but am aware of the fact that it is intellectually stunted idiots like him who are inciting people against the entire muslim race. I would like to find out where he gets his news. Probably the watered down, a-la-catre news agency called CNN.

#1 has to understand that just because the US newspapers do not carry news about muslims denouncing such acts, it does not mean that they support them. Please step off this intellectually challenged island called the US and obtain a world view on things and then make statements that you actually "know" about, rather than making statements that you "think are true".

Re: #31: "Muslim race"? There IS no "Muslim race." Islam is a religion.

I haven't seen your moniker around here before, tellitlikeitis, so obviously you're new around here. I'd like to invite you to take your blinders off and have a good look around. Find the "Friday Prayers" posts and read what the Muslims are saying in Arabic at their mosques in Cairo and Riyadh and Jerusalem. Read their messages of hate.

Click on the link to MEMRI and read the translations of what the "peace-loving" Muslims have to say. Or go to the "Arab News" site and read some of the hatred they spread.

There is your "world view," chum, straight from their own mouths. Then come back to talk about how people here are "are inciting people against the entire muslim race."

Gunny G: I deleted your comments, because your racial epithets were way over the line.

Re: # 32

How many Friday prayers have you attented?Looks like you need to start reading up Islamic scriptures and visit mosques other than seeing a television documentary about a handful mosques that preach hate and violence....we all saw the special on CNN.

Have you once pondered why there is so much hate against America? You know that it is not race related.....Canadians and most Europeans are not detested with such passion the world over. And please don't mention that "it is because we are so powerful" crap, because that is simply not true.

Click to your own neo-natzi, "all race but white" hating websites and read the documents published by them. Based on your theory, that would us make all Christians intolerant and bigoted.....right? WRONG - You are a textbook case of "effect" without an analytical review of the "cause".

TERRORISM IS WRONG. But first learn about the basic historical facts about why this haterd and terrorism exists and then you can judge right and wrong.

#34: "TERRORISM IS WRONG. But..."

Of course. That's just perfect.

#35

Did you ever graduate from high school? If you took a simple course in English, you would understand that " a sentence shall not begin with BUT. However, if there was a situation in which the emphasis is incomplete without the use of the word, a sentence may begin with BUT, without having a grammatical connection to the previous sentence......"

.............of course you already knew that because you like to correct people based on the fact that you have limited intelligence. Please stay on the topic @ hand and leave grammatical corrections to the experts.

For Robertd and Barcodeking:

Guys.......one can argue one's beliefs to high heaven (and one should, because it denotes faith, or pigheadedness) but the truth is that you guys are eliminiating thousands of years of peacefull Islamic preachings and attacking all muslims, because you are blinded by your anger.

Step away from this hate and see what the religion stands for. Once again, all misdeeds done under the cloak of any religion is disgusting. In order to further educate you guys, I request you to see Al-Aqsa Mosque website @ [Link: www.daar-ul-ehsaan.org...]
Then judge for yourselves........... May you be wise.

Hey tellitlikeitis - Precisely how do you feel about what happened on 9/11? You have been strangely silent on the subject. If your postings are any indication, you appear eager to position yourself as a Muslim (?) voice of reason. Is there, then, a reasonable justification for September's mass murder?

As robertd points out, your only stated discomfort is exceedingly general in nature, and accompanied by the classic qualifier: "But..."

Do you SPECIFICALLY condemn the events of eleven September? If not, why not? If so, why not say so?

Zulubaby - Unlike you, I sat through the entire frightful display. It was, without a doubt, the most horrible thing I have ever witnessed.

I am no babe in the woods, but vicious cruelty deliberately inflicted will always shock and horrify decent people at the most fundamental levels.

That's why that tape should be widely shown and seen by all decent people of everywhere.

"Know your enemy..." This footage shows the enemy's nature, and why he must be obliterated.

brianstien,

I agree with you completely that it should be viewed because it is important for people to know the enemy's nature.

I, however, am a ninny. All I saw was that sweet dog sitting there and it was over for me. I felt physically sick at the thought of what the poor thing was going to go through.

I just couldn't bring myself to watch it. I know myself - It would haunt me forever (and as it is I don't sleep much).

For Brianstien in # 38:

THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR TERRORISM OR GENOCIDE - LOCKERBEE, IRA, PUNJAB, IRAQ, HIROSHIMA, TOKYO SUBWAY INCIDENTS, YUGOSLAVIA, KASHMIR, HAMAS OR SEP. 11 - PERIOD. IT IS ALL WRONG. For future conversations can you please memorize that I said that, so that you know my stand on the issue?

My stepping into this forum was not on the issue of SEP 11 events. It was to correct people like Barcodeking from preaching that "Islam" is wrong and all muslims are to blame for Sep 11. (Read his pathetic comments in Mail #23). I don't know which part of the conversation you walked in upon, but looks like that you too are impetuous, highly judgemental and a hate pusher like the rest of them.

I am willing to have a meaningful discussion with anyone who believes in his convictions but someone who is blinded by hate is tough to reason with (...........kind of like the terrorists of Sep. 11).

Actually, tellitlikeitis, I didn't say that I hate Muslims! I do, however, like dogs; I own a couple myself and I think people who are cruel to animals are despicable. I never saw a dog fly a jetliner into a building, killing thousands of innocent people. I never saw a dog strap dynamite to its body and blow up dozens of innocent people. I've seen Muslims do those things. And I've seen an awful lot of their co-religionists either cheering and dancing in the streets, or shamefully keeping silent about it. Is it any wonder that I like dogs better than Muslims right about now?

Finally, since you're still hanging around, did you actually READ yesterday's post about the Friday prayers? I personally have not attended any Muslim religious services because I am not a Muslim, but I'm perfectly capable of reading a translation of what they say at their meetings.

The bottom line is that the mainline Muslim mosques in the Middle East are preaching messages of hate. If you're too dense to understand that, I'm finished trying to talk with you. If any Christian religious leader from ANY mainline Christian denomination in the US started preaching sermons about "Oh God, kill the Muslims!" how long do you think it would be before his denomination denounced it? How long until both Muslims AND Christians were picketing outside that church? And yet, it's okay for the Muslims to do it? No wonder the Middle East is such a fucked-up place!

Some of the posters here seem to feel justified in lumping all Muslims together as violent psychopaths, or at least accusing them of tolerating terror. I am a committed Christian married to a Muslim from Algeria. My husband fled his country when a young man, as so many thousands have - because they have suffered under Islamic terrorism for the past 10 years. At least 100,000 have perished at the hands of fundamentalists - journalists, intellectuals, musicians, and simple villagers. The fundamentalists commonly target villages - going in and slitting the throat of men, women and children. Muslims have suffered the most at the hands of the new death cult militant Muslim movement, and we need to be much more aware of that. The militant Muslims believe that anyone wanting a secular government in Muslim lands is an enemy of God - they are fighting to bring Shar'ia - Muslim law - to these countries.

At any rate, the reason I am proud of Canada (and the US) is because we are the most tolerant countries on the face of this earth. It is not the liberals that have brought this tolerance. It is not religion - for religion ultimately and inevitably becomes a tool of oppression and control. It is the heritage passed down to us by true followers of Christ - who taught freedom from oppression for all people. It is only in lands with a Judeo-Christian heritage that freedom is enshrined as a right for all. I am a born-again Christian that believe that Jesus is the hope of the world. But I would fight for the rights of Muslim people to choose and follow their religion. Because it is my duty as a follower of Christ to promote free choice for all.

Some advice, tellitlikeitis - It would be easier to take you seriously without the infantile name-calling and childish insults: "...purebred moron" "intellectually stunted idiots" "...did you ever graduate from high school?" " "...impetuous...highly judgmental hate-pusher."

"Meaningful discussions" (in my experience) are substantially more "meaningful" sans the invective.

As to your critique of my post:

1. I'm afraid you'll have to explain my impetuousness. I don't see it (and I DID graduate from high school).

2. Highly Judgmental - Based on what the extremists have said and done, I have judged that they are a lethal enemy to be dealt with harshly. They have sworn their lives to our destruction, and inviting them to a Kumbaya sing-a-long won't cut it. If that renders me "highly judgmental", I happily plead guilty.

3. Hate Pusher - First of all, I am somewhat taken aback that you claim the ability to gaze into a stranger's heart and see hate (or anything else) there. I was under the impression that was God's gift alone.

We have the right, indeed the obligation, to defend ourselves from those who are committed to our death and destruction. We don't need to try & peer into their souls to see what they're all about. They have made their hatred and intentions explicitly and murderously clear.

Like BarCodeKing, I have never attended Islamic services, as I am not a Muslim. He makes an excellent point, though, regarding extremist celebrations of the mass murder perpetrated here, and more importantly: the deafening silence of Muslim leaders in its wake.

If you are aware of mainstream Muslim leaders who have explicitly and publicly condemned 9/11 and everything it stands for, don't keep it to yourself. Feel free to share with the rest of the class. I, for one, would be pleased to see it.

This for all the Brienstiens and Barcodekings:

I am so sorry to have stepped into the compost heap of your intellectual discourse, which by the way is far from it. At least my comments are honest (which I am sure one of you will immediately refute in a follow up message) and I tell it like it is.

The US still has many lessons to learn, and wisdom, sharing, as well as humility remain primary among them... American governmental policies & international relations have been too self-serving and insular for decades. I sincerely hope that these lessons are learnt by the policy makers far sooner that another crazed 9/11 like event occurs. Hope there is a paradigm shift in the thought process.

Peace and wisdom be with all of you.

OVER & OUT

BTW - Answermethis all you true blooded Americans:
1. Do any of you think Hiroshima was Genocide?
2. Do any of you agree that the US should be tried for "war crimes" for such a cowardly act?
3. Do you think if the American Militia or some other internal fanatical group started to terrorize the Americans (which is what Oklahoma was....incidentally it was blamed on the Muslims when the news broke), a foriegn power calling themselves "keepers of world peace" can freely intervene and try to eradicate the problem?
4. Do you think that the US would have actively cared about Taliban or Al-Qaeda had Sep. 11 not occured?
5. Do you think if Iraq had no oil that the US would even have given a shit about the "people of that nation"?
6. Do you think that the US has done its share or is doing sufficient work to eliminate the IRA bombers, since it is out to stamp out world terrorism?
7. Why is the US not stamping out Pakistani terrorist infiltraters from Kashmir?
8. Don't you think that Pakistan and Musharraf are getting away from responsibility issues just because the US is "using" them as a base to drop troops into the area?
9. Finally, do you have a count of how many Iraqi children have perished in the last 10 years due to the strict US sanctions (which cut off medicine supplies to that nation), not counting atrocities mounted by Saddam?

...............I DIDN'T THINK SO

#45:
I'll take a stab at it.

1) Genocide is the killing (or attempted killing) of a genus: an entire people. Just killing _lots_ of people is not genocide. That's called war.

2) Winners try losers for war crimes. That's just how it is. Woe to the vanquished.

3) Intervention is appropriate if the extant power is unable or unwilling to handle a problem. Insofar as the US gov't can easily handle the militia movement, intervention is inappropriate.
I'm sure that you are trying to draw some complex analogy to some other world situation, but I can't quite figure out what.

4) America doesn't hate faraway people; we just don't care. It's not really our job to care.

5) If Iraq didn't have oil, then Iraq wouldn't have money. Without money, Iraq would be no threat. So, of course we wouldn't care.

Again, when did the US get nominated for the job of "country that cares about everything?"

6) Re the IRA, see (3). Re any other localized terrorist group: the word of the day is "priority." Look it up.

7) See (3) and (6).

8) When the US said, "...with us or against us," Musharraf said, "Hmm... With!" So we cut him some slack. So what? Don't you have any friends who are always there to help you move, but falls behind on hygiene? You cut your friends some slack. Plus, the guy's got nukes, dontchano?

9) Sanctions kill kids. A good leader takes care of his people. An evil leader builds castles while the children of his nation die. That's why sanctions, blockades, and embargoes (sp?) are historically ineffective against brutal dictators.

++++++++++++++++++++

Boohoo! After reviewing these questions, I feel so guilty that the US government considers its own people and interests to be important! Boohoohoo!

Clearly, the entire country should enter a convent, and begin a life of humble service to the poor and oppressed.

Robertd.......People with a thought process like you (or lack thereof) are the reason why this nation is detested all over the planet.

It is not the money, or so called "freedom", it is the attitude of some people that stinks of "moral superiority".......a phrase coined by the average American, used as a crutch to verbally vanquish any foe who opposes us.

I feel pity for you and others who feel that they are so invincible, not knowing that the world mocks your kind. Can we truly wave a flag of this nation anywhere in the world anymore, without most people either making negative comments, or mocking us or worse yet ignoring us.

Does it occur to you why???? You probably don't care about the rest of the world because you said it when you wrote "America doesn't hate faraway people; we just don't care". Remember, we are a nation of people from "faraway" lands. Unless you a native of this nation, you are the second/third or ....generation immigrants who have just settled here a little longer than the one's coming in now.

Face the reality.....we are not liked and will continue to be hated by all unless we CHANGE. You may not need to.....but I for one think that US needs to step into the Global picture and we need to do something about it. I hope that you work overseas for a few years and realise the position as a nation that we have got ourselves into.

PS - I don't see you commenting about the first half of my previous mail, yet you valiantly jumped to offer me your answers (which I am saddened to read about) about the latter issues.

Denial is the first sign of guilt.

To all the Tellitlikeitiss

“I tell it like it is.” Actually, you, and I, and BarCodeKing, and Cynthia McKinney, and Donald Rumsfeld, and Noam Chomsky, tell it as we each see it.

“At least my comments are honest.” They are – about your own dogma. There is a difference between belief and truth. Your insistence that only you understand the issues; and your condescending, insulting dismissal of anyone who disagrees comprise the mark of a fanatic. It is a characteristic you share with bin-Laden.

1. No. Hiroshima & Nagasaki ended the war and precluded an allied invasion of the Japanese mainland that would have cost more lives than did the nuclear option.
2. Of Course Not.
3. An American fanatic DID terrorize Americans at Oklahoma. His name was Timothy McVeigh. He was caught, tried, and destroyed.
4. Yes. 9/ll simply moved the issue from the back burner to the front.
5. I think you meant to ask if Kuwait had been oil-less, not Iraq. No. It was never about the “people of that nation.” It was always about the oil.
6. With regard to the IRA, George Mitchell accomplished a great deal, and the two sides continue to make progress. As for a world-wide campaign against terror, everywhere… One battle at a time.
7. Because we need Pakistan’s help to unseat Sadaam. Again, one thing at a time.
8. Absolutely.
9. No. If the Iraqi dictatorship devoted a fraction of the resources it allocates for WMD development and the oppression of its own people to the SUPPORT of its own people, you wouldn’t have to pose the question. The state of the Iraqi people is solely the responsibility of Sadaam’s regime, and not the U.S.

Goodbye.

#47:

There's a scene in "Life of Brian," where the Jewish rebels have a meeting. In this meeting, the question is raised, "What have the Romans ever done for us?" One by one, the rebels must admit, "There's the aqueduct..." "The rule of law..." and so forth. To which the rebel leader replies, "Well, okay, there's that. But what else?"

When the rest of the world rises above this hypocrisy found only among the sheltered, I will care why they hate the US. Until then, I say, "there's the aqueduct."

===========================

In response to your continuing attacks on my intelligence and education: No, YOU'RE stupid. So there.

Something that gets lost amidst all the sound and fury is what makes the sound and fury possible. These arguments are taking place online all over the world. I read recently that the median age in Iran is currently 23. 23! And a significant portion of these kids are online, expanding their horizons beyond anything the Ayatollahs would ever willingly permit.

Despite draconian government measures designed to limit online access, the Chinese, too, are acquiring a view of the world that must have Mao spinning like a lathe.

Fear not, robertd. The sheltered will inevitably emerge into the light of day, and people like tellitlikeitis will be consigned to some dark anonymous corner, where they can all sit down and have a good long cry. Until then, I hear the water’s nice at the aqueduct.