Little Green Footballs - University of Death Discovers LGF

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University of Death Discovers LGF

Sat, Oct 12, 2002 at 2:09:38 pm PDT

In mid-August I posted an entry about Al-Najah University, a school in the West Bank city of Nablus that openly supports and promotes terrorism. At least seven suicide bombers were Al-Najah alumni, and Hamas has often referred to the school as “a greenhouse for martyrs.”

Last night my brother and I received emails from a person who gave his name as “David Vickery,” requesting our mailing address to send a donation. One of the emails was sent via the contact form on this page—which gave me a record of his IP address. The return address on these emails was a Hotmail account. I didn’t think much about it, and replied with the LGF post office box address.

This morning I received the following email, which also bore the name “David Vickery,” although with a different email address:

To Charles and Michael Johnson, Little Green Footballs Web Design Company of Los Angeles and San Francisco:

Please be informed that An-Najah National University, of Nablus, West Bank, Palestine, does NOT have, nor has it ever had, an Agreement of Academic Cooperation with Dundee University, of Dundee Scotland. If that university is being harrassed unjustly with your gross misrepresentation of An-Najah National University, Nablus, Palestine, I certainly think that you owe it an apology. I demand that you have the name "Dundee" stricken from your page at http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/lgf-artmail.php?article=3788. Thank you very much, An-Najah National University Administration.

Ms. Carol Pope
Head of Press and Publications
University of Dundee
Dundee, DD1 4HN
Scotland, U.K.
E-mail: c.l.e.pope@dundee.ac.uk

Dear Ms. Pope,
It is hoped that this will bring an end to the pain that may have been caused to The University of Dundee by information published on this "Little Green Footballs" website. We are genuinely sorry.

Dr. Rami Hamdallah
President
An-Najah National University
Nablus, West Bank
Palestinian National Authority

Well, since it was possible that I had inadvertently published erroneous information in my original post, I deleted the name of Dundee University from our entry about Al-Najah.

Then I started investigating. And that’s when things got interesting.

First I went to the IDF’s page about Al-Najah, where I originally found the item and the reference to Dundee University. At the bottom of the page where I found the info about affiliated universities, there was a link to a page at Al-Najah’s website that was supposed to show the universities with which Al-Najah had partnerships.

I’m not linking to that page because it now results in a 404 error—in human terms, it has been removed from Al-Najah’s site.

But once again, the awesome power and majesty of Google comes to the rescue. Here is Google’s snapshot of the Al-Najah Partnerships page. Please pay special attention to the fourth item from the top. Dundee University, including its crest and website address.

To Dr. Rami Hamdallah: you, sir, are a filthy liar. And an incompetent one at that.

I have no idea whether Al-Najah actually does (or did) have a partnership with Dundee University; I’ve contacted Dundee to ask for clarification, and also sent them the Google snapshot of Al-Najah’s page that clearly shows them listed. But there’s no doubt that the “educators” of Al-Najah are trying to pull a fast one ... on someone.

Oh ... and remember above, where I mentioned that when “David Vickery” used our contact form it gave me a record of his IP address? Here’s where that IP address came from:

inetnum: 212.14.249.192 - 212.14.249.207
netname: ALNAJAH-PALESTINE
descr: An-Najah National University
country: PS
admin-c: MN4778-RIPE
tech-c: MN4778-RIPE
tech-c: KA1290-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
mnt-by: PALTEL-MNTNER
changed: khaled@hally.net 20000703
source: RIPE

route: 212.14.224.0/19
descr: PALTEL (Palestine Telecommunications Co.).
origin: AS12975
mnt-by: PALTEL-MNTNER
changed: khaled.sayeh@paltel.net 20010421
source: RIPE

person: Maher Natsheh
address: Nablus
address: Palestine (PS)
phone: + 970 9 2381113
fax-no: + 970 9 2387982
e-mail: natsheh@najah.edu
nic-hdl: MN4778-RIPE
mnt-by: PALTEL-MNTNER
changed: khaled@hally.net 20000703
source: RIPE

person: Khaled Al-Sayeh
address: PALTEL HDQ
address: Rafeedya St.
address: P.O.Box 1570, Nablus,
address: Palestine.
phone: + 970 9 2390690
fax-no: + 970 9 2376227
e-mail: khaled.sayeh@paltel.net
nic-hdl: KA1290-RIPE
mnt-by: PALTEL-MNTNER
changed: khaled.sayeh@paltel.net 20000313
source: RIPE

(Special thanks to Andrew Weisburd for his help.)

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56 comments

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scott down south Sat, Oct 12, 2002 12:23:13pm

Wow, it's almost like that arab had something to hide....is that possible? good work!

mommydoc Sat, Oct 12, 2002 12:27:21pm

Once again, proving that the LGF is greater than the sword. Besides, they had to figure that was coming--this is, after all, the blog that fact-checks your ass.

I'm just a little concerned about the request for your mailing address. Are you going to notify the USPS about this? Not to be alarmist, and you've probably already thought about it, but WHAT THE HELL are they planning to send you?

Charles Sat, Oct 12, 2002 12:31:48pm

Yes, I am going to have a talk with the postmaster.

Nikita Sat, Oct 12, 2002 12:41:45pm

Charles - after talking to the postmaster maybe you should change your POBox --w/o forwarding. (this i realize isn't practical unless all you use it for is LGF, in which case you can just email the new one to all the folks that asked for it before.)

bala Sat, Oct 12, 2002 12:49:10pm

hi charles,
have you figured out if Carol Pope is a real person or contacted anyone at Dundee?

Eric Pobirs Sat, Oct 12, 2002 12:51:03pm

I was curious about the Carol Pope named in the messages. After using the search function on the front page of the University of Dundee site I found she is in fact real.

Looking through the search hits I noticed this as item #3:
[Link: www.dundee.ac.uk...]

You'd think with this kind of experience they might be more picky about who they choose as partners.

Gary Bruce Sat, Oct 12, 2002 12:55:20pm

Charles:

It's a significant backhanded tribute to the impact that LGF is having in the country. The Islamo-fascists are obviously worried that their propaganda is being thwarted by your good work.

Eric Pobirs Sat, Oct 12, 2002 12:58:10pm

Gee, and when we search with the phrase An Najah, what do we find?

[Link: www.dundee.ac.uk...]

and another titled 'RAE2001, UoD Submission (intranet): RA5, UoA 35' that can only be reached from within their intranet.

Eric Pobirs Sat, Oct 12, 2002 1:02:53pm

And although there is real press officer at UoD named Carol Pope, why wouldn't she send her objections from her own given e-mail address?

And why the hell is any of this "David Vickery's" business?

M. Upton Sat, Oct 12, 2002 1:05:21pm

That's some freaky stuff, Charles. I hope nothing serious happens.

patriot Sat, Oct 12, 2002 1:06:14pm

Charles

Good work indeed. Be careful sir, with these so-called "pal" arabs . Brutal, violent liars they are.

Chazak Ve'Amatz!

John B. Sat, Oct 12, 2002 1:17:02pm

Another link: [Link: www.britcoun.org...]

"Research into poverty reduction between An-Najah National University and University of Dundee

The purpose of the link is to develop a research project concerned with poverty reduction amongst the elderly population."

Another: [Link: www.najah.edu...]

"Furthermore the Public Relations Department has strong relations with the following universities:
(Trinity college, Trier, Dundee,..."

mommydoc Sat, Oct 12, 2002 1:17:43pm

Eric--beat me to it. It appears that Nafeth Abu Baker, Dean of Administrative Sciences, An-Najah University is a 1996 doctoral graduate from Dundee.

Check out an-Najah's fact-laden response to the IDF expose. Notice they don't actually refute the pictures...

I'm with Gary (#7) They really see LGF as a threat--dissemination of real information may have cost them some exchange programs. I'm gonna guess Dundee will be the first to go! Good.

Michael Lonie Sat, Oct 12, 2002 1:37:28pm

Charles,
Looks like you really did fact check an ass!

Andrew Weisburd Sat, Oct 12, 2002 2:06:40pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In my own post I note the following:

Dr. Nafeth Abu Baker,
Dean of Administrative Sciences, An-Najah University, received his PhD from Dundee

Dundee was gifted with a lovely embroidered panel by An-Najah University

Then there is this, perhaps related, bit of information:

Derrick Pounder, a professor of forensic medicine at Dundee University, reportedly participated in a failed attempt to prove that a massacre occurred at the Jenin refugee camp

The complete entry from the Online Haganah:

[Link: www.simokyfed.com...]

And (off-topic, but a great story) the Tough Jew of the Week: [Link: www.simokyfed.com...]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use

iQA/AwUBPaiq6sNR6+7kOWTFEQJiOgCfWySa6PWsFoaMjg01/M Ha8wAuKKQAn3jH
7w9wsyIz1A0VhnCEkTJ2p/c1
=xwXa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Ben Noah Sat, Oct 12, 2002 2:08:33pm

Splendid work ol' chap, and take care of yourself.

LGF continues to prove the mantra that there is more than one way to fight a war.. This is the frontline of Anti-Idiotarianism.

LibraryGryffon Sat, Oct 12, 2002 2:45:48pm

I find the reference to Trinity College interesting. They don't specify which Trinity College. Is this TCD (Trinity College, Dublin, my alma mater), Trinity College in Connecticut, or one of the English Trinity Colleges as Oxford or Cambridge (IIRC they both have one)?

mojo Sat, Oct 12, 2002 2:52:42pm

I think it likely that khaled.sayeh@paltel.net is the same person as khaled@hally.net, but I find no record of any "hally.net" in RIPE. I do, however, find that the "Admin Contact" for the .ps domain is one Ghassan Qadah - listed as
Government Computer Center
Ministry of Planning and International Cooperation
Al-Remal
P. O. Box 4017
Gaza
Palestinian Territories
Email: qadah@hally.net

Verrrrrrrry Interestink, as Artie Shaw used to say

The Sanity Inspector Sat, Oct 12, 2002 2:57:36pm

Excellent work, Charles--and also to your crack staff of...of...whoever they are! The internet triumphs over tyranny again--no wonder the chicoms banned google for awhile.

The cursor is mightier than the bomb belt.

Maine's Michael Sat, Oct 12, 2002 3:03:06pm

Interesting.

At the time of the original posting here at LGF, I had written McGill University, which was also described as having programs in common with AlNajjah, saying that as an alumnus, I was horrified, they might have trouble getting donations from alumni, etc.

I received a reply from the Chancellor's office at McGill stating that they had NO official relationship of any kind with Al Najjah.

But, still I kept wondering. Would palestinians actually . . . lie?

Tad Sat, Oct 12, 2002 3:03:17pm

Any one know how to look up who owns Dundee.ac.uk??

[Link: www.ja.net...]

How about WhoIsing all of their domain names, and posting their contact information?

Jamie Irons Sat, Oct 12, 2002 3:06:23pm

Dear Friends,

My technical skills in this area are a little wanting... (To paraphrase "Bones" in Star Trek, "Damn it, Jim. I'm a doctor, not a webmaster!")

Can someone help me with the story line here?

I am also worried that Charles is in some danger. Please reassure me.

Thanks.

Jamie Irons

ploome Sat, Oct 12, 2002 3:12:32pm

20 Maine's Michael

hi...

I graduated McGill 1979, Art History...:o)

are you from Montreal..?

Peter Ingemi Sat, Oct 12, 2002 3:14:34pm

I am honored to visit and participate in your web site.

A fine Job.

Angie Schultz Sat, Oct 12, 2002 3:41:10pm

Googling on al-najah +dundee turns up three French (!) pro-Israeli sites, but I think this one is the original. The article reports basically what the IDF pages says, but includes a fuller list of the affiliated universities. At the end is a response from the university.

Unfortunately, while Google will translate most of the page, the response letter remains untranslated. My French is pretty bad, but I think it's equal to this letter. It seems to be identical to the one Mommydoc (#13) turned up.

This Google cached page from Jewish Telegraph Online says: "The Zionist Federation is protesting to the universities of Durham and Dundee about their links with Al Najah University, Nablus, which the Israeli Defence Forces believe is a training ground for terrorists."

SecHumanist Sat, Oct 12, 2002 3:48:21pm

Goddamn Charles rules. Wish I hadn't just donated money to LGF yesterday so I could donate it now as a "response" to these bastards harassing the best blogger around.

snopes Sat, Oct 12, 2002 4:15:05pm

Sorry to be alarmist as well, but if someone could trace the PO Box to its physical location, I would suggest scrapping that Box and finding one in a different post office. Actually, I don't think that is alarmist, but practical.

Amos Sat, Oct 12, 2002 4:41:18pm

Charles,

the only thing these guys freely donate is of the exploding kind, so watch out. Forward what you get to the proper authorities, so they may be able to return the sentiments to the senders.

I haven't thought about it before, but you are actually putting yourself in harm's way on my behalf. This is the essence of what being a soldier is: putting oneself in danger in defence of others. As a son to a nation that regards soldiers very highly indeed, as a vet and reservist, I now say to you: soldier on, Charles. Damn, I'm gettting teary eyed; better move on.

As to the university: many of our universities have life sciences studies/departments. Well, the paleos, being the antithesis to our culture, naturally have death departments. Indeed, no surprise there.

The IDF page is remiss on one count: it does not have a photo of the Sbarro exhibition in Al-Najah, erected to commemorate the massacre of kids and parents in a Jerusalem Pizza parlor. This exhibition was so horrifying that is was shut down by an order from the PA - it was counterproductive to their PR efforts, as is exposed their true nature and goal.

Thanks for the reminder, SecHumanist. It is very much past time for me to pitch in as well.

Alex Zizek Sat, Oct 12, 2002 5:03:50pm

The Chancellor of McGill University may have claimed * no * relationship with An Najah University but the McGill website says different:

[Link: ww2.mcgill.ca...]

Dr. Rami Hamdallah, President of An Najah U., is not only listed as attending an international executive committee meeting of "partner institutions" but is shown in a group photo with McGill's Chancellor Emeritus. The photo was taken at McGill in March 2001.

Steve Sat, Oct 12, 2002 5:34:15pm

And I thought McGill was an institution with integrity:

The following have represented the Partner Institutions and attended meetings of the International Executive Committee.
Al-Quds University: Dr. Sari Nusseibeh, President; Dr. Varsen Aghabekian-Shanin, Dean of Graduate Studies; Dr Amin Hayicha, Director, School of Social Work

An-Najah National University: Dr. Rami Hamdallah, President; Dr. Naser Tibi, Director, Public Relations Department

Oh boy - and this is the school I'll be attending next year.

Maine's Michael Sat, Oct 12, 2002 5:41:14pm

Ploome,

Yes, originally from Montreal.

I was at McGill till '79, anthropology, after which I left for Uof T medical school. Now living in the USA.

Alex:

Interesting. I will forward the web page to the Chancellor's assistant, who had responded. We'll see what he has to say . . .

FinnAmerican Sat, Oct 12, 2002 5:54:03pm

Maine's Michael, print out the page first. Then print out Google's cache. Then print out Archive.org's cache.

I wouldn't expect it to remain online for very long.

Paul Sat, Oct 12, 2002 6:11:09pm

Charles,

mommydoc and Amos are right; you need to be careful and on guard. Hopefully there is nothing to it but we live in an increasingly irrational and violent world and you are a soldier.

Jonathan Sat, Oct 12, 2002 6:22:11pm

Yet further proof -- quick on the heels of [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] -- that LGF is an intellectual force not to be trifled with . . .

PB Sat, Oct 12, 2002 6:33:14pm

Charles,

Just to be safe, talk this over with your local Postal Inspectors. You can get in touch with them through the local Postmaster or if they have a local office they may be listed in your phone book. The one's I have had professional contact with (I'm a cop) have been very very helpful and serious about their jobs.

The Sanity Inspector Sat, Oct 12, 2002 6:53:59pm

#25
"Unfortunately, while Google will translate most of the page, the response letter remains untranslated. "

Angie, pop over to altavista.com and paste the text into the babelfish box. You might have to do it piecemeal. The resulting translation will be violently uncolloquial, but you'll get the gist of it.

Big Dog Sat, Oct 12, 2002 7:13:13pm

Here is the translation from Babelfish (innaccurate as it is):
"Dear Messrs de Tsahal, "We were very surprised to see the article published on your site on August 17, 2002 about the University Year Najah de Naplouse. Al Najah is very badly described on your site; the University Year Najah is a famous academic institution. Its reputation extends in the whole world. University Al Najah believes in the construction of peace, in the democracy, the tolerance, the coexistence and the universal love. We make a point of letting you know that since its establishment in 1918, Al Najah educated tens of thousands of students. Its graduates occupy of the significant positions in the world. I would like to also add that University Al Najah received many international prices in the scientific field. We insist on the fact that our university was badly represented and we invite you to surfer on our site [Link: www.najah.edu...] in order to know some more about our university. What you put on your site is not in conformity with the true image of the University Year Najah. We think that the loss of innocent lives of Israelis or Palestinians must cease, and invite the two parts to put an end to this bloodshed. We hope that this message will be published on your site." Administration of the University Year Najah Naplouse - Palestine

I'm not sure, but I think it keeps translating their name as "University Year Najah" because "An" either is or is similar to the French word for "year." I don't speak French, though, so I'm not sure.
Now, for real entertainment, run it back and forth through different languages in there and see how much more comical it can get! ;)

Keelie Sat, Oct 12, 2002 7:15:02pm

I'm from Glasgow. It grieves me - and surprises me - that my fellow Scots, normally a very pragmatic bunch who tend to follow the path of truth, have opted for following the violence and lies-filled path of this death culture.

They may believe that they are sticking up for the underdog, which Scots generally do, but in this case they are sadly mistaken - or blind.

mommydoc Sat, Oct 12, 2002 8:21:07pm

Big Dog--You're right--"an" is the root for year in french. The letter appears to be the same as the one on the IDF site to which Charles linked earlier. But BabelFish is a blast!

Big Dog Sat, Oct 12, 2002 8:34:36pm

Back when James Lileks had a radio show, one of his occasional bits would be to take some random sentence or two and run it through Babelfish and translate it several times into and out of several different languages, each time reading the more comical results from each translation.
How nice it would be to take another trip to The Diner....

zulubaby Sat, Oct 12, 2002 8:40:11pm

Charles,

You rock!

Just make sure that you are careful, and aware. Thankfully they only have your P.O. Box.

Don't worry, all of us at LGF will protect you. Always. I think I speak for most of us when I say that we are devoted!

(Personally, I'm having withdrawals from LGF. Computer troubles and all.)

Seriously, if there is anything we can do to help you in any way, at any time, do not hesitate to ask.

For what it's worth, I bless you with love, and protection from all evils.

Ratz Sat, Oct 12, 2002 10:57:10pm

Indeed, Charles, be careful. Your site is a beacon of truth. They will fall. It is said that it was not the power of America's nukes, but the influence of CNN than finally brought down Communist Russia and the USSR. Knowledge is a weapon that will always be used for good- it need not be beaten into plowshares, for it already is the power of the hand of God, Truth and Justice.

Take care, indeed I'm sure that the Post Master can be warned to reject any return-addressless packages or any packages from the Territories...

Aside from the care and worry that we all share from veiled threats, I ask: Have you sent the *lovely* miss Pope a link to the google cache? I think that it would, as a side effect of course, possibly have some negative effects on Al-Najah U's 'Academic reputation'?

Again, take care

-Ratz

Ratz Sat, Oct 12, 2002 11:01:15pm

Just thinking,
How many people were effected by the posting on LFG? I mean, for the head of one University to bother contacting the head of another is not exactly a nothing deal. Do we have some unknown friends at U of Dundee?

foobar Sun, Oct 13, 2002 4:30:18am

Charles,
I believe that Weisburd (15) may be on to something. It seems possible that Pounder may be the missing link in this mysterious situation.

Geepers Sun, Oct 13, 2002 5:55:02am

This is typical. Scared to death that someone might actually see their propaganda for what it is, they erase pages, misrepresent the facts and resort to threats.
These are petty and vindictive people who know they are wrong and would rather silence you than refute your arguments.

Charles, don’t be intimidated, but also don’t dismiss this as anything less than a serious threat. Carry on proudly, you have a lot of intelligent friends willing to back you to the hilt.

Charles Sun, Oct 13, 2002 6:31:41am

Thank you for the concern, folks. I am taking this seriously, and I'm going to speak to the Postal Inspector (as PB suggested above) and change our PO box.

And yes, I have contacted Ms. Pope at Dundee University, to appraise her of the facts. I emailed her a copy of the PDF version of the An-Najah page listing Dundee as a partner. I told her that if she wished to make a statement about the matter, I would be happy to post it here at LGF. We'll see what happens. (I suspect they'll try to ignore the whole issue and hope it goes away.)

Andrew Edwards Sun, Oct 13, 2002 6:42:11am

#29 and #30:

Googling without looking at context will get you in trouble.

The webpage you sent was for McGill's Middle East Peace program. (I did PoliSci at McGill and) This program is a bit of a spin-off from the main university. I wouldn't regard the participation of any university in what is basically a backchannel talking forum centred at McGill to equal endorsement from McGill of that university.

If you spent time at the main McGill page, you'd probably find that the school itself, rather than a specific conference centre that its faculty has assembled, has no real relationship with An-Najah. I'd go further and suggest that An-Najah is delieberately blowing out of proportion the relationship, and deliberately blurring the line between 'participation at an institute hosted by McGill' and 'endorsement by McGill'.

For what it's worth, I'd say that both McGill and Dundee should have been more vigilant about how their names were being used. But if anything wrong is happening here, I'd pin the exageration on An-Najah.

Libertarian Uber Alles Sun, Oct 13, 2002 7:12:37am

the paleostine and the nazimedia left are going after any and all links to israel and jews

we've seen people dismissed from journals solely based on nationality

we are at war with the entire suicide bomber cult

to be completely horrified, read this article from globe and mail...
[Link: www.theglobeandmail.com...]

plaeos shun the children of collaborators... grandparents abuse them because of what their parents did...

so any link at all must be eliminated, root and branch, until the populace has been pacified

I'm getting all my mcgill people on the march, and will move against any canadian university with links... its all about the benjs...

also, mcg is a VERY jewish school, in a VERY jewish city... we will fuck them up... plus the principal of the university is Dr. Bernard Shapiro... let's jut say that the pressure will be very intense, very fast!

l8rs... charles and co, keep up the pressure and send out info on the uni links...

onward christian soldiers (the official saudi army anthem!)

Ex-Montrealer Sun, Oct 13, 2002 9:08:48am

Libertarian (#48), how is it that the "very Jewish city" you write of allowed the suppression of Netanyahu's speech at Concordia? Was there any outrage in the press (at least the Gazette) or political repercussions after that riot?

Maybe the infamously corrupt MUC police and French Canadian politicians have more sympathy for the Palestinians?

Alex Zizek Sun, Oct 13, 2002 10:36:54am

More McGill...

Just go to the main page [Link: www.mcgill.ca...] and search "Najah" and there are a number of pieces on their website. I don't regard McGill's participation in programs with An Najah to be tangential or An Najah's description of their relationship to be "blowing it out of proportion". This is, rather, yet another ill advised attempt by a liberal western institution to make peace with people who are only interested in establishing legitimation and cover for war.

Ranbutan Sun, Oct 13, 2002 10:37:31am

Slick Work!

Excellent detective skills, Charles. I would be cautious, but I do not think that the inquiries on your address are necessarily sinister. Unless the Pals involved had a stash of anthrax powder, and after the ass-kicking you just gave them, they might be tempted.

So nice to know that if cyber-war with the Muslims comes, that they are just users and customers of the Internet. Not the creators or those with the hardware skills, satellite ownership, or top technical staff. In cyber-war, they would be as outmatched as the Taliban was against the USAF.

To which I say, bring it on, Mullah-heads.

yasmin nehru Sun, Oct 13, 2002 3:30:15pm

21st century renaissance man a/k/a "charles"

challenged by 12th century reptilian borg a/k/a

"David Vickery," in the battle of the wits.

No contest.

Great slam dunk. Chas.

Howard Mon, Oct 14, 2002 4:06:44am

Excellent work Charles
Please be cautious
You prove again that truth is a light not to be extinghuished
HG

Mohannad .... Tue, Oct 22, 2002 11:01:42pm

hey gays,
let me tell you the truth . Israeles are invaders they target every thing ,they kell the chidren before coming out to the life .they demolish every things,hummilating the Palestenians ,preventing them from their human rights , they spoile the hospitals,streets,
houses ..........and the life it self. they try to fabricate their plans to be justified..... they kell the people and say they are terrorest. i remember something imporant to say , i heared once in israeli news at this uprising ,the deffece israeli force killed 4 boys try to make amilitary attack.do you know how old the oldest boy with them . it is just 12 years .!!!! howcome . israelis try to hide the truth to justify thier horrible terorresm. and to elimenate the palestenian existanc in Palestine .

mommydoc Thu, Oct 24, 2002 3:17:53pm

Mohanned (#54) You need an education. Try the links here and here. Don't come back until you've studied the information carefully. And stop posting on old threads, you troll.

Ratz Sun, Oct 27, 2002 4:39:03pm

Mohannad,
Question: Why were 4 boys, the oldest apparently only 14 years old, trying to attack a military outpost if they weren't willing/wanting to die?
Here in the U.S., this is what we call 'suicide by cop.' Basically, someone is dumb enough, or demented enough (I believe that these twisted youth count in the latter category), to try to shoot at a police officer or someone in a similar capacity (i.e. armed, with permission to defend self with deadly forcce). If the Arab children, whose parents illegally occupy land that they lost in a war and attack the people who, by a long, though mostly unwritten, code of laws for war, have legally seized the land, have a problem understanding this idea, then they need to be taken away from their parents and put in a better environment (something else we Americans are prone to do).

I recommend that you start here ([Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] and read to the end. THEN you can decide to respond, or just fade away into the realm of trolls.

Much obliged,
Ratz

P.S. Either write in English (both 'proper' and 'Americanized' forms are accepted, with or without accents, slang, etc.) or at least use fragmentary statements with proper Arabic/ Hebrew/ Latin/ Greek/ Chinese/ Japanese/ Swedish/ [any real language] organization- your post seems to not apply to any of these forms.