Is Indymedia the PR department of Al-Quada?

Yes. The Useful Idiots division of Qaeda.

How did I do with the ostrich comment?

persistent reports that mossad was operating in the area

Posing as art students, no doubt.

I thought Joseph Goebels was dead. I guess he was hiding out in Syria and has taken a writing job with indy media. Disgusting is all I can say. And anybody who takes the Arab side against Israel shows their true colours.

Can someone tell me what Indymedia is suppose to be? Is this suppose to be a legitimate source of news? I only know it through this site.

Indymedia is a collective of independent media organizations and hundreds of journalists offering grassroots, non-corporate coverage. Indymedia is a democratic media outlet for the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of truth.

Or as someone at another board I post at who had a link to indymedia in his sig used to say "BE the media".

In other words, it's a soapbox for nutters of every stripe -- provided it's an anti-West, antisemitic or anti-American line. In the past articles by David Duke which have toed the "right" anti-Israel line have appeared without irony on indymedia (I think anyone can upload anything -- the question is how long it remains).

Here is the "Palestine " Indymedia site:

[Link: jerusalem.indymedia.org...]

and a lovely article called "REAL JEWS AND THE "so-called" JEWS":

[Link: jerusalem.indymedia.org...]

re: the links #9 - Crikey!

Thanks James.

Sorry if someone has mentioned this already, but I haven't seen it.

RALLY IN ISRAEL
Sunday November 24th-Wednesday November 27th

Roundtrip Air, 3 Days 2 Nights Deluxe Hotel, Transfers, Buses and Guides

$650*usd

The basic rally package out of New York area airports is $950+$76 usd departure tax (double occupancy). The subsidized price out of New York City is $650+$76 usd departure tax. Similar subsidies are available from your city.

Subsidies are available regardless of where you travel from.

Check out full schedules and info (on numerous departure cities):

[Link: www.rallyinisrael.org...]

Indymedia is a democratic media outlet for the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of truth.

1. Democracy doesn't determine truth. Freedom of speech helps. Just because the majority believes a lie doesn't make it true.

2. Tellings of truth must be DISPASSIONATE. Otherwise it is impossible to avoid editorializing, thereby introducing bias.

Guys,

This is absolutely the best:

Title: hitler was a girel
by: heidrich 4:58pm Mon Oct 14 '02
contact: yotello@yahoo.ca

tje mosaad bombd allso hiroshima

LOL!!!!!

I must go now!

If you replace 'truth' in the Indymedia "mission statement" with 'pravda' and think back to the Cold War, you'll get a better feel for what they are.

9 James

that link.....ewwwwwwwww

My sources from Socialist Worker Magazine report that the bombing on Bali was the work of a Facist Republican Death Squad headed by Donald Rumsfeld not the J-E-W-S. Get your 'facts' strait Indymedia!

I'd like to thank indymedia for totally killing any beliefs of mine that were politically part of the left. useful idiots for useful idiots

Lawrence (#3): Your ostrich comment was fine, but I must admit that it was Mookie Wilson's comment that had me laughing out loud:

"I know the Mossad did it because the voices that speak to me all the time told me. Sorry, have to go. The tinfoil hat needs adjusting and I need to see how my mom, Mrs. Bates, is doing. Bye."

Yes, it's true, the Mossad uses an energy beam on the meteorite that Muslims circle in Mecca. This beam contains a special genetic code, amplified by the meteorite, that the Muslim masses pick up through electomagnetic energy created by circling around the stone.

After Muslims has been exposed, they become homicidal maniacs bent on the destruction of Australian tourists dancing in nightclubs.

The Indymedia guys sure need to run their Intrusion detection checklist - I think the staff from the Onion has hacked their website.

Here is a website that just oozes anti-everything.

I am warning you guys, this is worse than Indymedia.

Here is a quick challenge the owner of the site offers:

How Kosher is the Holocaust Story?
$1000.00 reward (will be paid by ReportersNoteBook.com) to the first person to prove that any essay or article at Greg Raven's web site is inaccurate. Greg Raven's web site can be found by selecting "Links to other sites of interest" at the homepage of the Institute for Historical Review...

[Link: reportersnotebook.com...]

My fiancee knows why they call themselves Indymedia.

"Thats why they are called indymedia, independent of intelligent thought"

Isnt she the best?

Mr. Bates,
Phonecall for you, just pick up the receiver of the public telephone booth outside your workplace,

Ariel Sharon
Mossad
P.S. Had some extra C-4 lying around

Ohmigod! Congresswoman McKinney was right!
It's The J-E-Ws again. The indymedia web site in Milwaukee has an article calling the bombing of that French tanker off Yemen a CIA job (apparently the Mossad was too busy planting the Bali bombs). Indymedia also believes "passionately" that the 9/11 attacks were engineered by the Bush administration. Useful idiots indeed.

Psh the mossad should be offended, not because of this inane article's implication that they were somehow involved, but because of the lack of respect for the mossad's hardassness. They know when someone's gonna pick up a phone for christsakes i think they could come up with something a little more creative than bombing a nightclub to get back at the aussies. If the Mossad was pissed Australia would do an atlantis impression, or worse would find itself getting a full shipment of new model 100 israel super plus phones

I'm not a fan of Indymedia but it's worth noting that their policy is to publish anything that anyone submits:
[Link: nyc.indymedia.org...]

What they choose to feature on their home page is another matter. I don't share their world view at all, but at least the Mossad fairy tale is not featured there.

But it was the Mossad! I overheard them conferring with Elvis about sacrificing the tourist to GRingem'ot when the stars aligned and Ted Kennedy sobered up. Then the 32nd tree would fall, replaced by a bunny that would spout "42" "42" over and over again.

damn i'm tired

Geez, I was being facetious when I suggested that they would blame the Mossad - I didn't think they actually would blame the Mossad! Wow ... what world do these guys live in?

W.

Isn't the clinical term for people like this delusional?
And isn't that a mental illness?

What made me laugh were all the pinkos horrified to discover the scum in their midst. Hey, babies, if you swim in a sewer, you'll smell like turds!

Well, you can laugh at Dean Bates and his need for medication adjustment, but people on Al-Ghardayan's talkboard are arguing this "theory" for REAL.

Do you have a link to "al-ghardayan"

Charles I've been reading some of the old LGF postings pre 9/11 and post 9/11. I watched with some fascination that change taking place.

When do you think the change finally became confirmed within you? Was there a single 9/11 reaction that changed what you thought?

When if at all did your attitude change about the President? Or are you just putting up with other things because the war is top priority?

inquiring minds want to know

What I want to know, Charles, is whether Indymedia has changed since 9/11, or if you have?

I have always considered myself slightly liberal, but that's before "liberal" took a wild stampede off into the loony left. Before I would just roll my eyes at the Moonbat Brigade, thinking, "Oh, who the hell listens to them?"

I still don't know who listens to them, but I know they seem to be everywhere, and I can't just dismiss them as irrelevant any more. Now I must attack them as dangerous.

The Moonbat Right, however, has been keeping their heads low lately (and even Falwell & Pals emit only intermittent squeaks of battiness).

tje mosaad bombd allso hiroshima!

That's going to be my new motto.

I can imagine the arguments there. "The Jews/CIA were behind it!" vs "Thank Allah for the mighty blow to the infidels!" Make up your minds, jagoffs.

NoT Goebbels, but such Order of the Death's Head (SS) Veterans as Alois Brunner, Eichmann's sidekick; aka Georg Fischer, late?
of 7 Rue Haddad Damascus), Walter Rauff, the
van-man, Franz Rademacher, the only living
member of the Wansee committee, all have
called Damascus home.

Of course, this is part of the reason, while my
hometown Senator Bob Graham's demurral on
Iraq is so false, He prefers going after Hezbollah, which is sheltered in Syria (the
current head of the UN Security Council? and
Iran, the only place where the showing of civil
strife is apparently Verboten; Rest assured we
will have a return engagement with the other
Baathist state, after we deal with the first one

#32 "Al-Ghardayan" is simply my name for Al-Guardian, Britain's premier left-wing, pro-Islamist "news"paper (www.guardian.co.uk). Click on their talkboard link and do a search on any of the several threads dealing with the Bali bombing.

Wait a second... About the 5th comment down on that link.

it ain't that much of a stretch
by this sucks 8:28am Sun Oct 13 '02

mossad agents were caught with tons of explosives trying to enter the Mexican parliament 9/11/01 so it really isn't that far of a stretch of the imagination...

Does anyone know what this guy is referring to? Is there any credibility to this story?

Being honest in word and deed, toward the enemy (kafirim), is a cardinal vice in Islamania. That is one reason why we have to cease recognizing Islam as a bona fide religion, and destroy their MURDER cult.

There is no framework for reconciliation.

I noticed that even a Palestinian guy (who might just be the world's only sensible Pali) was disgusted by Dean Bates' screed. You know you're on the far side of the moon when a Palestinian finds your Jewish conspiracy theory ridiculous.

what fun! I left a mildly antisemitic comment from "Dean Bates," then I made a silly comment on their story about the Palestinian olive harvest. I'll be a regular visitor to their site from now on. I've never been a troll before, but I like it!

Re: #38

Two words: art students.

"tje mosaad bombd allso hiroshima" ?

Who's been reading Jeff K?

[Link: www.somethingawful.com...]

Would you believe that before September 11 I used to visit Indymedia occasionally, and mostly agreed with what I read?

Meaning what? You were anti-capitalist? What about now?

#38 David E,

Two Jewish anti-terrorism experts were visiting the Mexican Parliment building with props. As far as I recall the guns were real the explosives were not.

Charles ran a bit on this at the time it happened I believe. Search the site. I'm too lazy tonight.

Indymedia is a Mossad front!

I think some one figured it out.

LOL

Right up there with Indymedia

[Link: www.rense.com...]

Indy media is an embarrassment to the term "Indy".

Indy film = GOOD
Indy rock = GOOD
Indymedia = ?

Of course, it's "Indie" when applied to film and music, but still - Bastards!

You have seen the islamo and leftie fascists. See their polar opposite:

[Link: www.hinduunity.org...]

Gentlemen: let the anti-Jihad begin.

No No Mr. Bates you do not shoot that green Taqija shit at us.

[Link: www.stormoskenejtak.dk...]

I looked around the rest of the site, and the whole thing is like that. Not blatantly antisemitic, but definitely pro-palestinian and idiotarian. I left a whole bunch of silly comments. BTW, on Oct. 13, someone posted an article claiming Bali was bombed by the CIA, and the US would use it as an excuse to invade Bali. I think I'll go back to that site whenever I have a few minutes to kill and want to throw some garbage around. Sometimes I get tired of being so polite and earnest, and Indymedia is like a dumpster you can just throw stuff into.

Indymedia is a democratic media outlet for the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings

Two out of three ain't bad, I guess.

David E.: "Does anyone know what this guy is referring to? Is there any credibility to this story?"

It was originally "reported" by the hate-filled wackos at La Voz de Aztlan, a dumb web site that will print any anti-Jewish lie.

Actually you have it all wrong.

Ossama is Mossad. (Simple neo-palindromic code: Switch the "M" to the end, slip the "d" past it and make it an "a")

Who gains more than the Mossad from a "clash of civlizations?"

It was "ossama" who warned the 4,000 Jews as he poked Uncle Sam in the eye.

Ossama-Mossad explains it all. Ask the Muslims. They have always known and tried to tell us with their seemingly double message which is actually ONE: "Hurray Ossama!" "It was Mossad!"

How much you wanna bet this gets some legs.....

dnm

Before Sept. 11th, I was the standard leftist teenager who didn't know why he thought corporations were evil. Who felt Israel was demented. etc. The list goes on.

Then Sept. 11th came around, and on the community blog I often read (Kuro5hin.org), an interview with Glenn Reynolds was published. I went there, read his stuff and found myself being awakened.

Then I later discovered Samizdata and Den Beste. Both providing solid, cirtical views. They have also gotten me into reading new books.

re: 35

I was thinking of the same thing. I'm somewhat baffled over why Usama bin Laden is so popular if - according to a vast majority of Arabs - he isn't responsible for any of these attacks.

Intervierwer: "So, what do you think of bin Laden?"
Random Arab: "He is a great man! He struck the infidel and made them humble!"
Intervierwer: "Then you believe that bin Laden is behind the attacks?"
Random Arab: "No! Of course it was a Jewish conspiracy!"
Intervierwer: "uh .. so bin Laden is working for the Mossad? Your hero is a Jewish agent?"
Random Arab: "See! This is why you Westerners are hated! You spread lies like this"
Interviewer: "But you're the one who said ... "
Random Arab: "I'm not listening" (puts fingers in ears) LALALALALALALLALALALA!

Bunch of idiots

W.

Being in the East and an early riser to work ,first thing i do now is hit lgf to catch up with you over night west coasters
The only comment i have for this is
Holy Fuc*ing Cow !!!!!
That s the lead ..........Mossad
Any count on how many Jewish victims yet ??
Oh yeah we kill our own any way to further the conspiracy
Dumb Bastards
HG

Scott (#55) Thanks for reporting that intelligence is still alive and well in the world. You don’t have to believe that all corporations are bad, or good - (most are somewhere in-between.)
You’ve proven to be smart enough to make your decisions based on the facts, not finding facts that support your conclusions.

You can make an intelligent case for or against corporations (or Israel, or nuclear power, or pacification, or…)
Doing your homework, making your argument with facts and refuting your opponents positions will strengthen your own, understanding and knowledge.

But you lose right out of the box if you claim “The mossad did it” every time. Of course making an argument why the Bali nightclub bombing is in any way justifiable is a hard case to make. Yea, better to blame the mossad. “Of course there’s no evidence of them doing it. They’re a secret organization.”

At least one blog-fan has been running a clandestine operation called "Indy-borg", a sort of "false flag" or "black propaganda" effort that posts insane conspiracist rants on the Indymedia news line in an effort to incite the batshit element and make the Indymedia gang seem even crazier than they really are.
This usually involves techno-conspiracy claims of the tin-foil hat variety, often with a local twist; for example, that a series of traffic accidents in Wichita Falls, Texas are related to the testing of new directed energy weapons aboard B-1 bombers that regularly overfly the city.
The bogus stories are usually attributed to some kind of minority or other grievance group org, such as, say, the Afro-Lesbian Womyn's Dignity Campaign. In the lefty world, this provides additional credibility and a further shield against critical analysis.

We aussies have already started a bit of payback

[Link: www.smh.com.au...]

Re #57

"Any count on how many Jewish victims yet ??

I'm sure the Jews were told by the Mossad to not show up to work, er, to the nightclub that day.

now, those aussies better start behaving or there's gonna be another rash of muslim gang rapes.......

Re #60

Breaking windows and scaring an 11 year-old girl is not payback

Yeah it is - the victims were muslims - my bet is its just a small beginning - have u been to Australia and met the people outside Sydney and melbourne?? There are a lot of nutters there per head of population - probably due to the fact that there's not a lot of women and the heat.

#61
Yeah just like me on 9-11
I am still furious for them letting me come to work
(100 Wall 6 blocks east )

And just when you thought these wackos could not possibly be more wacky there is this

[Link: www.iranmania.com...]

Crusade Now...If you are an Aussie you are a fuckwit! and fuck you Jim Moore for your Israeli bravado talk at the expense of Australia.. "If the Mossad was pissed Australia would do an atlantis impression, or worse would find itself getting a full shipment of new model 100 israel super plus phones".. Fuck you! We were just the victims of mindless violence and you are imagining more violence directed against us by the Israelis-our allies- just to make your lame-ass point. Fuck who do you think we are? If we wanted a fucking nuclear bomb ourselves we would have got it back in the 50's...fuck you!

Shawie - stay in Sydney or Melbourne mate. Wake up - I knew people in that bomb. And I know the muslims did i t and they did it because they hate us for who we are.

My favorite thing about Indymedia is the Carlos Latuff cartoons! He makes an ass like Kahil look like Picasso...

Waiting for the IndyMedia (or Arab News) story about the 4,000 jews who didn't show up for work in Bali....

zzzzzzz

And they think anyone actually believes this stuff (ok, anyone other than Muslims)?

That;'s one of the problems - we need a few nukes. That way Indonesia wouldn't touch 1 sq inch of Australia or there would be crust buster on Java. Its time we finished the job on them and split their country into more separate countries - Irian jaya, Ambon, Aceh Borneo etc...

Also Abu Hamza Al masri at Finsbury Park Mosque has said it was a punish ment on Indonesia due to tourism as I slam views it as prostitution and America (!) for its opression against muslims. I think its time for soem dirty tricks against these people in the UK - u reading this MI5?? I can promise u that if I find abu qatada who is in ur care he will disappear - he will just never come home from the mosque.....

#70

Perhaps MI5 needs to purchase some of those Israeli telephones.

#71 MI5 are the problem - they are the ones hiding him. The germans and french know where he is and can't understand that the british "don't" . I wonder what use he is.

While Whinymedia blames it on the Jooz, today's news brings the first tantalizing hints that the DC sniper might be of, ahem, a predominantly Muslim nationality.

I have a feeling that we're going to be amazed in a few days that we didn't immediately conclude that a sniper shooting up our nation's capital on the eve of war and as other terror attacks take place around the globe was from al-Qaeda, and not the usual Lee Harvey Loser.

Re #47:

I see "Rense" has a fondness for Hal Turner and his net-based radio show. Last time I checked out Hal Turner's website ([Link: www.halturnershow.com),...] he was selling "No Savage Negro Beasts" coffee mugs and plugging an upcoming appearance by David Duke.

The worst site of all is "whatreallyhappened.com", created by legendary net-kook Mikey Rivero. (That's where I originally found a link to Hal Turner, and he uses Rense a lot as well. It's an idiotarian feedback loop!)

[Link: www.whatreallyhappened.com...]

#73: Do you have a source on that? I haven't seen anything about the sniper's nationality.

I have seen mention of a police sketch which has not been released to the media. If it turns out they were keeping it quiet for fear that Muslims or Arabs would be blamed, there's gonna be hell to pay.

I was wondering out loud to my wife last night about how long it would take for the Jews to be blamed for the Bali massacre. It's good to see that my "faith" in idiot-kind has been justified.

I saw an American survivor interviewed on the East Coast news this A.M. and heard his horrible story and how he escaped the burning building (while his friend was killed). He said that when he was staggering down the street, bleeding, his hands severely burned, the majority of the Bali people were helpful, but that there were some who laughed at him and apparently were delighted to see so many foreigners massacred.

Do you have a source on that? I haven't seen anything about the sniper's nationality.

Apparently it was something that went out on police radio. Dunno how reliable it is, of course.

If it turns out they were keeping it quiet for fear that Muslims or Arabs would be blamed, there's gonna be hell to pay.

Absolutely. The ostriching by the authorities is just going to encourage vigilantism, as people come to the conclusion the government's more interested in PC than security.

Well, I'd answer Damian Penny, but like Salon's blogger, I have no idea who he is and I'm too f'ing lazy to follow a couple of links to find out.

Seriously, Rod Dreher at the Corner/National Review says:

"OLIVE-SKINNED MAN": [Rod Dreher] On police radio in the Falls Church area tonight, after the latest sniper shooting, a lookout was broadcast directing authorities to look for an "olive-skinned man" in a white or cream-colored Chevy Astro van. CNN is now reporting that police believe they have an eyewitness description of the shooter.

And Jim Henley (who Instapundit linked on this story) brings up a past DC sniper who turned out to be mideast-connected.

What's going on around DC is a Mossad plot. Don't you realize that duh Jooz all drive electric cars and don't stop at gas stations?

Concerning the DC sniper, I have marvelling for days now at the utter lack of information regarding any witness descriptions of the perp's physical description.

Lemmee get this straight: there have been 11 incidents now, and NOBODY got a glance at the guy(s)? But we have pretty good details and consistent description of the vehicle?

If somebody saw your average white guy or black guy, you know damn well we would have heard about it.

I don't buy it. Something is being covered up because somebody is aware of the ramifications.

We need a few jewish snipers about 200m from the entrance at Finsbury park mosque.....

#54: Does that mean his real name is Osama Ben Lipschitz?

"we are all New Yorkers Now"
"We are all Australians Now"
We are All J-E-W-S now

I wish I could write, "We are all Mossad now"

hey I just did!

#53 Michael Levy

Yup, I read somewhere that the sick phucks at La Voz de Aztlan even had (have?) the video of the murder/decapitation of reporter Daniel Pearl on their site. I believe that site is representative of the Nation of Aztlan movement which seeks to "liberate" the southwestern US for Hispanics. Interesting (and disgusting) that this supposed Hispanic liberation group models itself after the Islamist anti-Jewish hate propaganda culture. I imagine the Palestinians' international diplomatic success is an inspiration to them.

Nation of Aztlan also sounds a lot like the black Nation of Islam to me. It seems reasonable to consider that the Islamists may have much to do with both, and are using them in order to weaken the US from within.

Diane L:

"I've never been a troll before, but I like it!"

...

"Sometimes I get tired of being so polite and earnest, and Indymedia is like a dumpster you can just throw stuff into. "

Hmm. This could be an emergent case of "Nasty-Typo-Philia". :-)

#84 Pissed off now,

Let us not go off half cocked here. There is a grain of truth in the report.

There were two Israeli anti-terror experts visiting the Mexican parliment. They were arrested with guns and what appeared to be bombs. On the order of Kg not tons.

After being held for several days they were released. The inflated reports are all based on this set of facts. I don't think we should be denying the truth. It makes us look bad.

The truth is a better explanation than total denial.

#86

I beg your pardon M Simon, but I was addressing the La Voz de Aztlan website's history of hate propaganda. As far as the Mexican parliament story goes, I have no idea and therefore made no reference to it.

A recent La Voz de Aztlan article called "La Kosher Nostra" apparently explains how everyone in the world pays a special "Jew tax" on all non-kosher food.

If that is the type of "truth" you accuse me of denying, then I guess you got me.

The White Queen: "Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast”.

#56: ha!

I'm not surprised. The Arab world appears to simultaneously believe these two statements:

Hitler was a great man for killing all those Jews, and the Holocaust never happened.

Let's try some more:

Osama's great for killing Americans, and Osama didn't plan the attack on the WTC.

Al Qaeda and Iraq are unrelated, and Al Qaeda killed Australians in Bali because Australians support a war on Iraq.

Iraq won't be able to use WMD to deter us, and we shouldn't attack Iraq because they might attack us with WMD.

Ashcroft's jackbooted thugs suppress all expressions of dissent, including this one.

It's okay for Islamic militants to hate women and homosexuals, and it's wrong to hate women and homosexuals.

More? I'm making a list.

#87 Pissed off now,

Sorry for the misunderstanding. You will note that I made no refrence to the story(s) that bothered you. Only to the story that I actually had some info about.

I visited their [Link: www...] a year ago. Haven't been back. Too ugly.

Again my apologies for the misunderstanding. I understand your emotions are raw. I felt the same after 9/11. Just wait. Cold fury will set in. Then the SOBs had better watch their backsides.

Buzz (#88) Excellent! Keep up the good work.
Since most idiots can’t reason out logical arguments these simple didactic statements of their beliefs should leave them sputtering and shooting sparks.

Re: Jews in Bali

Israelis aren't allowed into Indonesia.

#89

No problem M Simon. Thanks for the clarification. Good luck to all of us.

#88 buzz harsher

Here's one:

Any criticism of university professors' opinions is suppression of free speech, so shut up.

BigBad #91,

I've been to Bali, ergo Jews are allowed in Bali. Not sure about the rest of Indonesia.

Did they yank the story and the comments? It doesn't appear to be there now. I wonder if they cowards would have taken it down if it weren't garnering such bad press?

#94 but are you Israeli? Did they even try to find out if you are Jewish? I have heard of some muslims countries demanding baptismal certificates from westerners that want to be let in, but religions do not issue pasports so it is tough to figure who is a member of what religion unless they want to tell you.

Israeli's aren't allowed in Indonesia except on Bali. I live in Israel and a few years ago one of my colleagues from work went there for her honeymoon.

Israeli's aren't allowed in Indonesia except on Bali. I live in Israel and a few years ago one of my colleagues from work went there for her honeymoon.

Indymedia has moved their open publishing wire behind one little link on the main page:

[Link: www.indymedia.org...]

Mostly crap but once in a while something interesting slips through. If you think you can improve on the quality, post your own articles there.

You can post disinformation such as simian conspiracy refers to (#59) if you want. Most disinformation is obvious bullsh-t and not "clandestine".

Attempts to "make the Indymedia gang seem even crazier than they really are" seem a bit presumptuous. I don't think anyone can match Bobby "Deaf Messenger" for sheer, audacious, psychedelic weirdness.

Looks to me as if Indymedia has pulled both the article and the commentary (the latter was vastly more entertaining). Can anyone else see it?

Yes, it's gone, like the snows of yesteryear.

Ok, it's gone--did anyone save a screen image of it? Charles, perhaps if you ask the question on your blog, some prudent person may have kept it?

Re nos. 91, 94 and 97: Indonesia is supposed to be one of the more "moderate" Muslim states. That they won't allow Jews into the country (except for a very small, mostly Hindu part) is telling.

Are there any predominantly Muslim countries to which Jews may freely travel? I'd say Egypt and Turkey, but that's about it. (And neither of them would be particularly hospitable.)

#103

Israelis can and do visit Turkey in large numbers. (The Antalya resorts are cheaper than Eilat on a package deal!) Israelis can and do visit Jordan in much-diminished numbers. Before the intifada, Israeli Jews of Moroccan background were going "home" to visit. After the intifada, the flights, which connected in Cyprus, were cancelled. I don't know about entrance with an Israeli passport now. Similarly, Qatar and (I think) the UAE were allowing Israeli passport-holders in if they had a good reason (e.g., business). I suspect that's been cancelled.

The situation for American Jews is very different, especially if your passport doesn't have any Israeli entrance stamps. During the last Clinton-Assad summit on the Golan, the Syrians claimed they were dropping "religion" from the visa request form. I don't know if this happened, or how visa issuance works in practice. Saudi Arabia certainly still restricts visits from Jews. Americans are not allowed to visit Libya. Other than that, I don't think an American passport-holder would have much trouble (with obvious further exceptions like Afghanistan).

My wife used to work at the Israeli consulate in London - an Indonesian came in and tried to get a visa to go to Israel. On his passport was written 'valid for all countries except Israel'. Of course, she denied him a visa to Israel.

I'm sure that it can be 'arranged' for Israeli passport holders to go to Bali, but difficult to impossible for the rest of the country. I believe the same is true about Malaysia.

This is for Israeli passport holders only, not passport holders of other nations who happen to be Jews.

Re: Egypt -

Israelis used to regularly travel to Sinai for vacation - it was close, cheap, had lots of hashish, etc. I would estimate that over 50% of the economy of Sinai was Israeli tourists.

I spent a week there on the beach once and it was all Israelis. I could pay the bill for my 'hut' on the beach there in shekels.

Apparently since the beginning of the intifada, Israelis have been 'persona non grata' in Sinai. There was an article in one of the Israeli papers about how some Egyptian minister had tried to encourage Israelis to return to Sinai for vacation in 2001, so a couple of israeli journalists tried to take a trip there just to write about it. They ended up getting arrested, interrogated, and accused of being spies, before finally being released. It was a total nightmare for them and they recommended that Israelis not go back to Sinai.

Oh yeah, and Egypt is supposed to have a "Peace Treaty" with Israel. What a freaking joke.

Thanks Jimmy!

Re #91, 94, 97, 103, 104:

My name is "Ariel", so it's pretty obvious that I'm Jewish for anyone who cares to know. I know for a fact that Jews can also visit Morocco - I've been there, and some of my cousins have gone back to visit even after the start of the stupidfada.

I've been to Pakistan, but while we were there we had to hide the fact that we were Jewish from our neighbors and my father's coworkers(i.e. no public celebrations of Shabbat, Pesach, etc.).

Turkey is quite hospitable to Jews (through hearsay).

Andrew L,

I've replied to your previous comment.

BigBad, I spent Pesach 2001 in Sinai. It was deserted. Israeli tourists, or US/Euro tourists visiting Israel and Sinai in combo, made up much, much more than half of the economy. There was no line at the border--usually 4 hours.

Everyone welcomed us (back). There was absolutely no harrassment, except minor annoyance from the souvenir sellers. Actually, they were happy just to see customers to talk to, whether we bought or not.

We were obviously Jewish, albeit on American passports.

I don't know if this holds true now.

Reading what Ariel says, it looks like Saudi Arabia is the only country still consciously excluding American Jews.

Ariel, I replied to you in the old threat FWIW

I'm sure non-Israelis are more welcome there and I also think that the bedouins couldn't care less who comes. It's just the border police, I think.

In any case, this is just another example of the Arabs shooting at the Israelis and hitting themselves in the foot (or the wallet). The stupefada has been economically hard on them and frankly, they deserve it.

BigBad,

Actually, half our group were dual-nationals--and our credit cards had Israeli billing addresses. I think they had us pegged--and didn't care.

The Bedouins didn't start or encourage the intifada, and they didn't sound very sympathetic to it. (That may of course have been for our benefit.) We met two souvenir sellers married to Israeli Jewish women who'd been beach bums. (bummettes?) In this case, the "stupidfada" is hurting innocent Muslims, unless you want to lump them all in together.

Border guards--that might be another story.

Wow. You folks are really blinded, ignorant, hateful, stupid, anti-Semitic and even inane when if comes to the benefits of commerse. I used to be a liberal. The more I learn, the more I run from extra-violent "peaceniks" like you and your's.

I pity and loathe you all at once. And am happy that you will never get your way. Please, on behalf of the rational citizens of the U.S., move to France. They sided with Hitler. Seems like you would have too. The Arabs were Hitler's buddies. I think you guys are too. Oh yeah, Mossad was behind the Bali terror attacks. Mossad also backs Arafat. It might be funny if you didn't think it was true. Enjoy wasting your time and spreading hate and ignorance. Have some coffee and then burn the cafe.

My introductory comments on the above entry got cropped, so please excuse my first posting error. What I meant to have appear was that I thank you for pointing me to these fools. I wrote them the above "feedback" and surprisingly, I don't feel any better.

RE #114

Steven:
Don't feel better? Try the phrase, "die, die, die!" I find it to be quite cathartic.