I don't know where you're coming from.

An-Najah University is an institution of learning, and I cannot believe that you are dispairaging it like this.

Those displays were clearly meant to show the horror and immorality of the pizzeria bombing.

[/sarcasm]

Umar's a friendly guy.

If I didn't see that picture with my own eyes, I would swear someone was joking. They are glorifying people getting blown up. I forget they're "oppressed" and "humiliated" so that makes it all okay.

Sick, twisted fucks!

When will you neanderthals understand that it is just art. Don't take it so literally and actually use your feeble brains. Just like when crucifixes are submerged in a tank of urine, a portrait of Mary is smeared with dung, or the Pope is portrayed in realistic fashion with a meteor crushing him. Call it "satire" if that helps you get over your desire to see this as an attack on your faith or values or the sanctity of human life.

(sarcasm off)

But don't dare create anything that can be analyzed every which way and eventually be construed as having a whiff of anything offensive to non-Jews/Christians. You'll be lucky to get away with just being sued into bankruptcy and ostricized. Don't make me smack a fatwah down on your candy ass.

Wait a second, there was a post I responded to now it is gone?

what is going on here?

Goulish delight? Sir, that woman's head is less than 50 pixels tall. How the hell do you recognize ghoulish delight in that little space? Do you have superhuman vision? Has God given you keen insight on the thoughts of a small, blurry woman in a photograph?

A joyful exhibition about an atrocity is monstrous, but blaming a woman who's treated as little more than a posession by the extremists that rule her world is even more so.

Over the last year, your posts have become so racist you're beginning to seem like nothing more than exaggerated charicature of yourself. Maybe you need to cool down and take a break. The internet will survive just fine without commentary like this while you regain some semblance of balance.

So people don't think I'm crazy writing about "Umar" I this his post was deleted [it was the first post about two minutes ago].

It read something akin to "f*ck the Israelis" blah blah in all capitals.

#6: Moderators doing their job.

And doing it well.

"this" should be "think". Fingers not typing properly today.

Ain't allah great?...

Nice link to Jewsweek Charles.

Oh, look there...nearly matching Israeli and American doormats!
Is that simulated blood smear on the doorjamb or Arabic writing? Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.

#7: Perhaps "ghoulish delight" was a bit over the top; but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the second picture, the content of which is anything but ambiguous.

Rats, I hoped I'd get the first post. Anyway, if any of you Red Sea Pedestrians are reading this -- especially any with training in biology -- I'd appreciate it if you'd read my several posts in a different thread, beginning here.

In a nutshell, I suggest that the Jewish invention and subsequent refinement of monotheism was a brilliant way to exploit a natural neurological phenomenon in which intense mental focus on unity, connection, merging, and related concepts, combined with specific types of sensory stimuli, triggers a pleasurable feedback reaction in the brain.

Whether you choose to see this phenomenon as naturally evolved or as the handiwork of a loving Creator (who needed to put a special neurochemical doorbell in our brains for those occasions when He wants our undivided attention) is, I submit, a matter of personal inclination.

Sorry to everyone for going waaay OT here; I'm just really excited by this train of thought and want feedback on it. By the way, I didn't have the cited popular science book at hand when I wrote the posts, so my repeated reference to ''endorphins'' may be off the mark. (I'd only skimmed the book in question before.)

On a positive note, maybe some Pals will see this and have their stomachs turned. I'm not holding my breath, mind you.

By the way, for a good laugh see Counterpunch's eloquent response to Hitchens:

[Link: www.counterpunch.org...]

Fricking hilarious. I've seen that site post some really moronic stuff, but this is almost beyond comprehension.

The seocnd picture displays the facts and nothing more. That said, I hope it convinces many of our Palestinian bretheren to cast off the yoke of Judeo-Christian oppression and slay those who fancy themselves our masters.

For we serve Allah, not you, and we shall dance to your beck and call no longer!

Ain't allah great?...
The Palestinians as a people are quite secular. Arafat's own wife is a Christian. Palestinian nationalism is not "Allah", just to make sure I made my point across.

Umar, meet Abdul. Abdul, meet Umar. It looks like you guys are in disagreement.

By the way, Umar, I hope you're not a Christian. Abdul may have surprise for you at the Nablus Pizza Hut.

Plus in the long run it is better for everyone, the people in the middle east will have at least a chance to be able to worship jesus

Why would people in the Middle East be better off if they got a chance to worship your pretend God-on-a-Stick® while picking scabs off their radiation burns, you sick little puke? Go jack off to Veggie Tales or something and stop botherin' us grown-ups with your completely worthless verbal vomiting, nosepicker.

Ahem. Meanwhile, is there any way to help religious minorities in the Middle East -- Jews, Christians, Druze, liberal Muslims, atheists -- attain the freedom to peacefully and openly worship or not worship the deities of their own choosing, without meddling from the Islamofascists, or from the likes of Chuckles the Clown above?

Oh, common Charles. You give David Vickery and his cohorts another thread to expound how the University of Death teaches and trains the Palestinian youths of the future!!!

I don't see much of doctors, computer scientists, engineers, etc. in these pictures, David Vickery. Would you care to elaborate?

#16
If you truly believe that you are dance to our beck and call then you are delusional.
I would suggest trying to learn a rational method of thought.

Rabid tapeworm infestation!

Throbert
If the rest of the world would develop alternatives to oil, maybe. Oil revenue, which functions much like welfare, keeps broken states and dysfunctional institutions afloat. Cut off their lifeline, and they'll dry up and blow away on their own (well not really, but internal change would be a lot more likely).

Here's what the Pali's are "oppressed" by:

morality, conscience, law, social norms...

Their heart tells them to be canibalistic and dance around a bonfire, and the modern world gets in their the way of their barbarity... poor souls.

Re: #22

Tapeworms lack the central nervous system. Any method of thought is beyond them, much less a rational one.

apotheosis: I had no comments on the second picture, because the commentary about the woman being photographed was my focus. My comment of A joyful exhibition about an atrocity is monstrous obviously applies. Thankfully, they aren't facing the camera so we can only wonder what looks of delight are on their 50 pixel tall faces.

Unless Charles can see through their skulls, which I wouldn't exclude from his obviously substantial powers of human insight.

FYI - NRO The Corner's Rod Dreher has two entries on Bat Ye'or's US tour.

excerpt:

Bat Ye'or was stunned to see how far the self-dhimmitization of Americans has already progressed, at least on elite American college campuses. Speaking at Georgetown the other day, she said about three-quarters of the students who turned up to hear her speech were Muslims, and they responded abusively. All they could say was that she was defaming Islam; they couldn't argue the facts with her. But that didn't surprise her. Said her husband, David Littman, who was there to speak on human rights under Islam, "The amazing thing is the local Jewish group [at the university] had become dhimmis. Their leader was absolutely panicked when he saw the shouting of the Muslims. He told me he'd rather I not speak. I refused."

a portrait of Mary is smeared with dung

For the record, the portrait in question depicted a pregnant African woman in a blue robe surrounded by flowers and butterflies cut from from pornographic photos of female genitalia. A small lump of elephant dung was used as, essentially, very textured brown paint to give a raised 3D effect to one portion of the image -- namely, the woman's exposed breast.

Despite the work's title (''The Virgin Mary,'' I believe) and the subtle touch of a blue robe, the work was, if anything, a somewhat heavy-handed representation of fertility (pregnancy, manure, flowers, genitalia) and rebirth (butterflies, the allusion to Christianity and all its symbolic baggage), not an attack on the BVM.

As far as I know, the crucifix in the beaker of urine was just a crucifix in a beaker of urine. The artist's point was, I'm guessing, to scientifically demonstrate that divine lightning doesn't instantly zap you if you dip a crucifix in urine -- ho-hum. (If anyone has other theories about Piss Christ, I'm open to 'em, but the ''dung-smeared Mary'' was definitely not the crude attack that many observers and second-hand critics took it to be.)

#28 "Their leader was absolutely panicked when he saw the shouting of the Muslims"

A small crowd of well-organized zealots can terrorize an entire country. That's how the Nazis rose to power in Germany and Austria.

Abdul al-Hazerd serving Allah?

I rather thought he was kind of more into Yog Sothoth n' such...

Go figure.

Over the last year, your posts have become so racist you're beginning to seem like nothing more than exaggerated charicature of yourself. Maybe you need to cool down and take a break. The internet will survive just fine without commentary like this while you regain some semblance of balance.

Another fucking moron throwing the same old racist slur around here. Great! Now, bugger off.

These pictures are so bad that I would almost think it was a Mossad disinformation ploy to stir up support for Israel.

#7 Kristian:
"(to Charles) Over the last year, your posts have become so racist "

Charles comments on a photo of one person, and you don't like his conclusion. Think this is unfair and or wrong. OK, that's cool

But where do you get off calling him a racist? Every single person has only *one* racial makeup, be it blended or not. Are you saying that seeing something negative in an individual means the observer is a racist? Or more precisely, are you saying seeing something negative in a person that *you* don't makes the observer a racist?

I can't tell the young female's race from the picture, nor can Charles with any certainty, though it isn't a stretch to guess at it. Where is Charles blaming anything about her on it?

You raise a valid point with your post and then bust it to pieces because too many in the West have "cried wolf" over this. Accuse some one of murder? Prove it. Accuse some one of slander? Make the case. Far too many people (and I'm not going to say you are one) have attempted to hurt or discredit others in the verbal drive-by of crying "racist!". It used to work, even on those that aren't. Today the public is tired of it.

What the are you doing over here, GBJ? I thought you deeply despised all of us. At least, that was what was implied from the vitriolic trash you posted at Anil's site:

Wittingly or unwittingly, all Johnson does is fan the flames of hatred with sensationalism and virulent diatribes. Post nasty invective against a disfavored group and you get maybe a mild response. Challenge Israel's right to go Slobo on the Pals or Jim Crow on its own Arab citizens and you're public enemy #2. Johnson is a dealer for hate and anger junkies. Unfortunately, there are a lot of them these days.

#29 Throbert: Thanks. I was going off anecdotally, appreciate the info. Still stand by the idea that no such "demonstration" would be tolerated if it were a symbol of a religion that belonged to someone other than Jews/Christians.

#17
me: "Ain't allah great"
umar: "blah blah blah"

These murderers kill in the name of allah...any dispute about that?

If you are Muslim and think this is wrong, then SPEAK UP, 'cause I don't hear you...

Oh, Abdul, we don't want you to dance to our beck and call any more.
We want you and the rest of your death-obsessed knuckledraggers to just die.
Expire.
Shuffle off this mortal coil.
Stop wasting oxygen.
Become worm food.
Rot.
Leave the rest of us alone. We want nothing to do with you or your gutter religion. (It became a gutter religion when your types dragged it there).

Go now to serve Allah, but go by yourself, unless you can convince about 5000+ Islamofascists that think as you do to go with you. The rest of the civilized world wants to stay here, thanks but no thanks.

And if you really want to dance, a GE MiniGun spits out a nice fast rhythm. Let's see if you can keep ahead of it...

You had your chance to be left alone. You decided to defile Arabia with your presence instead. We shall not rest until you have been scourged from the world.

#39 we defiled Arabia with our presence to save your ass from Sadam. You're welcome.

Absolutely sick, depraved society but is to say so anti-Moslem.

greatbigjerk (#24)

Cut off their lifeline, and they'll dry up and blow away on their own...

That's whay I'd like to see happening to your privilege of posting here.

Re: #39, Abdul al-Hatred, you certainly talk tough. Are you going to send your mighty armies against us? Perhaps the thousands of planes in your air force? Or are we going to feel the wrath of your thousands of nuclear warheads?

No. Your people know that in a battle of force against force, your backward countries would be the ones "scourged from the world." And so, instead, you have chosen the cowardly methods of terrorism. Of attacking defenseless civilians with bombs, of taking hostages, of hijacking aircraft and turning them into bombs. You're pussies, Abdul al-Hatred. Pussies. With a capital P.

When I say someone is racist because of the abundant evidence at my disposal, it is, obviously, a slur. If I was to agree with the general consensus of this blog I would be granted the indulgence of having an opinion a rare and precious commodity reserved for those you agree with.

For the record, I'm not jumping in from a position of ignorance. I've been reading this site since the time when Charles was still able to post about fun stuff such as AYB and The Terrible Secret of Space. And then, there was that rather depressing Tuesday in September... and everything changed.

Incidentally, Charles, I don't think the 'remember me' javascript works in Mozilla. I've checked it on each of my previous comments and it's not remembering me.

Abdul al-Hazred , stop, please stop you're killing me. I haven't laughed this hard since hearing about that Russian officer up on charges for using a dildo as a baton.

I heard Mustafa Tlas wears pink lace panties.

Incidentally, Charles, I don't think the 'remember me' javascript works in Mozilla. I've checked it on each of my previous comments and it's not remembering me.

Maybe it's so intelligent it simply chooses to ignore you.

Zulubaby (#42), I subscribe to that.

Abdul:

We "defiled" Arabia to defend Kuwait and the Saudi oil fields. Saving the cowardly, corrupt, inbred asses of the Saudis was an unfortunate side effect.

And you think you Islamonazis are going to "scrouge us from the world?" Ha, Ha, Ha! I foresee a rather different scenario: we're going to turn Saddam into worm food, Iran will revolt against the mullahs, and the House of Saud will fall.

How do you think, exactly, that you will prevail?
Through your superior weaponry? Like those satellites you've sent into space - oh no, excuse me, I'm thinking of your neighbors, the Israelis! Ah, yes, the Arab world is known for its' cutting edge science and technology (well, I guess it was- in 1073). The Saudis have to import rubber bands, for Allah's sake, not to mention infidels to get the fucking oil out of the ground for them.

Thanks for making this American infidel woman laugh with your stupid posts. Now why don't you try facing up to the complete frigging FAILURE of Arab culture, instead of blaming the Christians and Jews for problems that are solely of your own making?

A. van Hilten (#47)

LOL!

(#48)

As for greatbigjerk, Charles has a lot more patience than I do. If this were my site, he would have been but a distant memory.

Two-faced asshole. He's more at home on Anil's site, but from what I've gathered, that coward has disabled his comments, so greatbigjerk is back in here, stinking up the place.

Kristian: You leveled the charge of racism, I asked you to back it up. Even went out of my way to say that you weren't necessarily doing this with no proof.

So you express the opinion that you aren't allowed to have an opinion here. Huh? And I see your posts have not been deleted by the "evil racist" Charles. You'd think he'd do that right away if you weren't free to express yourself.

I see the people here that disagree with each other to different degrees, yet you invoke the "group-think" claim when again this very thread and others debunk it.

The facts, so far are against you. I'd like to think I've treated you politely and asked you to participate in a dialog. My hunch is that you could be one of those drive-by types that just level charges (see above) instead of raising awareness. If you want to teach or influence others, then earn their trust and back up your claims with fact and reason when questioned. Otherwise it is only glorified and repeated name-calling, and the only audience you're reaching is yourself.

And then, there was that rather depressing Tuesday in September... and everything changed.

Don't you just want to vomit all over Kristian the Nuanced and Sensitive Moron's spotless white robes at how he oh-so-cleverly downplays the massacre of 9/11?

Still stand by the idea that no such "demonstration" would be tolerated if it were a symbol of a religion that belonged to someone other than Jews/Christians.

Oh, I don't doubt that at all, and I think that a lot of the ''shock art'' that depicts nuns fellating the Pope, etc., is incredibly juvenile trash. (And I'm an ex-Catholic atheist with no special affection for the Pope.)

And I think it's very unjust and tacky to diss Christianity just because it's the majority religion in this country, and therefore a ''safe'' target from a PC perspective. (I will diss Christianity on rare occasions, as above when I described Jesus as a God-on-a-Stick, but I hope the Christians on this forum will forgive me this lapse and understand that I did it solely to vex and annoy the a-hole poster I was responding to. Of course, I'm not worried about Jesus forgiving me, because even if he is watching me from heaven right now, which I doubt, I have no doubts whatever that he'll be a good sport about the blasphemy thing when I'm called to the Pearly Gates -- that goes with being perfect and all-powerful.)

It was just that particular artwork -- the Mary portrait incorporating a smidgen of elephant poop -- that I believe to have been treated very unfairly by critics who either hadn't seen it at all, or who'd seen it but missed the significance of the painting's numerous allusions to fertility/birth/rebirth.

Kristian wrote:

And then, there was that rather depressing Tuesday in September... and everything changed.

Jesus, that's how you characterize 9/11? "Rather depressing?" Yeah, it really was sort of a bummer. Such a pity it changed everything and Charles decided to devote his blog to , well, in my bigoted opinion, the most important issue of our time, rather than writing "fun stuff."

Christ, you're shallow. Go hang out at Anil's blog - you can have fun discussions with him about the pros and cons of bendy straws!

Um, quick question, but isn't there an "Abdul al-Hazred" character in the Lovecraft stories, the one who gave all the warnings about the long-dead/dormant (and evil) gods? Is this Abdul a parody? Probably this Abdul is just a parody. Relax.

(And I'm an ex-Catholic atheist with no special affection for the Pope.)

Oh, wait -- but I give props to JP2 for the whole solidarnosc thing in Poland. Credit where it's due, and all.

There's over a years worth of evidence, but I guess I'm the only one who's seen it with these undercurrents.

You're right, I don't have the endurance to stay with this discussion, I've already typed more today than I type in an average week. I guess I just pushed my trigger point and had to speak what's been on my mind so long, and now I did.

Zulubaby,

Perhaps GBJ didn't know this is the site that factchecks your ass...

Oh that's it, Donna, stuff it you ****. It was my fucking birthday. I spent the next 6 months either thinking about death and destruction or just wanting death. Burn in hell.

By the way, when I say "you raise a valid point with your post", you still insist on decrying your intolerent treatment. It makes you look like you either didn't give me a moments consideration, or that you must find having some sort of victim status necessary to have weight assigned to what you say. I've seen too many people with that attitude. Hopefully you aren't one of them.

That was fun.

Please disregard my previous questions and comments Kristian. You've just answered them all quite thoroughly.

Kristian: I'm so glad you had fun posting your last comment at LGF.

Man, the freaks are really out tonight.

Charles is it a full moon?

Is this Halloween?

Just chill.

Now, which side is leveling accusations that the other side are Nazi's?

We aren't talking about a true religion at this point - but rather a cult.

Not all of Islam - but unfortunately - a too large contingent of those who claim to be Muslim support and condone this activity. These are the people that are at war with civilization.

What I would like to see are more Muslims who are willing to take up arms and stop those who are perverting their religion rather than blame everyone else for their problems or justify terror on others while whinging that they are being unfairly blamed for the actions.

Charles,

This place is certainly attracting the best of the worst these days.

Aint,
I don't think that David Vickery is the source of this influx. I think that the MSNBC posting got us on some Islamofascist boards. Proof of David's lack of cause- [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

My favorite: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

"Ratz,
A quick look to all the comments I could conclude from your fast response to any comment, which is against the Zionism, that it is a paid job for you. The evidences are that your answer to any comment is almost immediately which means that you are sitting all the day waiting for the comment. This is not all, but also ask the others to alert you if you go to the bathroom. On the other hand, Your answer to any comment is full detailed and well organized this means that you are specialist for this job.

Regarding your comment,
"I guess the Palestinians don't glorify violence or teach their children to kill...oh wait, they do (even though the PA decided to threaten the life of any journalist who *dared* to show the truth- that Palestinian children are being armed and are using guns and grenades at 12 and 13- some images are still there)"

All of your claimed pictures were for occasions for engagements, social celebrations and so on.
Now, Can you tell me why Israel is the only country in the world that train its children on using weapons since they are 13 years old and why only in Israel that every person should go to the military services by force one month yearly and all the people in Israel are armed, while the people in Palestine are forbidden to have a small pistol to protect themselves from the thieves of land.....

We are the Muslims believe in all other religions, Jew, Christians,… so please when you are talking about ISLAM be polite and as the adverb says....,

Now, I let the free and civilized people every where to know your actual face.
Here you will find a site that has up-to-date maps of all the settlements, and a good history of various Israeli plans to grab various parts of the West Bank as they did for the rest of Palestine earlier ( HOW DO THEY DO THIS?),
Here is the Site:

[Link: www.opendemoc......]

I don’t have the time to check this site daily and to wait for every comment you send, because I am not paid to do so,

The University of Civilization
"

(my response follows this on that thread).

-Ratz
PS, Charles- What are the rules of your new post-closing system? I was just wondering because the old University of Death post closed within a few hours of the latest post. Thanks for the system.

I called Kristian "the nuanced and sensitive moron." Please disregard.

Carefully choosing the words, I characterize him as a filthy brainless shit-filled assfucker.

Umm, I think #59 is a perfect example of what SHOULD be deleted, or edited slightly. I take it that she's now blocked.... Anyone have a serious problem with this?

Pretty darn sick. Sadly, it doesn't surprise me, or shock, or even get me angry much any more. It really invokes a kind of sympathy for the psycological damage these people have been through. They need their "leaders" replaced and their terrorist-sheiks removed, then rationality can slowly be restored. Take out the control towers and the masses will wake up.

Oh that's it, Donna, stuff it you ****. It was my fucking birthday. I spent the next 6 months either thinking about death and destruction or just wanting death. Burn in hell.

We need a good USENET type law for this forum. Somethings like "The first person to use excessive vulgarity and personal attacks automatically lose the argument". I'd call is Charles' Law, but I believe it's already taken.

Yes I know it's impossible to lose a debate which never existed, but this must apply to some situations.

This is a disgrace and an outrage against humanity--but until we have a President who stops called Islam a "religion of peace" and saying "Islam is peace" and until Canada's Prime Minister stops defending these people and we get him and his party out of office for the disgrace their deliberate ignorance of these obscene behaviors is, we cannot begin to make our abhorrence felts with any real vigor. Until our leaders stop kowtowing in the dance of political correctness which serves the evil that this is by complicity, we as people and humanitarians, cannot make our disgus manifest. Either our leaders start to listen to the angry voices of their people raised in protest against this 'peaceful religion' which has killed so many of us around the world this year, or we vote them out and get leaders who will act on our repugnance and anger and do our bidding rather than behaving liked cowed canines in a junkyard.

It does not good to whine and complain until we build a fire under our leaders which makes them UNDERSTAND we mean business and we despise this stuff and that ISLAM IS NOT ABOUT PEACE!

I spent the next 6 months either thinking about death and destruction or just wanting death.

Why, honeypie, because your birthday was ruined?

In the first post, you call 9/11 "slightly depressing." In the second, you say you were walking around for months hoping the angels would take you. A bit of a contradiction there.

And you're real original with the insults too.

Q,
Please just let her be and don't fall to the temptation to treat kind with kind. She already managed to get herself booted. I know that you can do better than that, we just need to show the rest of them.

Kristian (#59)

Oh that's it, Donna, stuff it you ****. It was my fucking birthday. I spent the next 6 months either thinking about death and destruction or just wanting death. Burn in hell.

First of all, Happy Birthday! I'm sorry that it happens to be on 9/11. Three of my friends cancelled their respective birthday parties on 9/11/2001 too. Fortunately none of them uses it as a weapon the way you just attempted to. Bear in mind that 9/11/2001 was your birthday, but on 9/11/2002, you were able to celebrate as you turned a year older. To thousands of people, 9/11 is now the anniversary of the death of their loved ones, who will never be a year older than they were on 9/11/2001.

We have all spent the past 13 months being confronted with death and destruction, and therefore thinking about. You do not have the sole mandate on those thoughts. Sorry.

Calling Donna V. a c**t is crass, and reflects badly on you, not her. For those of us who know and love her, you have no idea how inappropriate that is.

And on behalf of all of us here, may the years ease your desire to wish decent people to burn in hell. We are all angry and we are all hurt, not just you, and lashing out at Donna V. the way you did is beyond disgusting.

You should be ban... Oh, I see you already have been.

Buh-bye.

Is Kristian from Denmark? I sure hope not, since my grandfather was born there. No matter, the guy is way out there in the ozone. He totally lost me when he called 9/ll rather depressing. How can anyone with any sense of decency think so little of the lives that were lost that day because of the Islamonazis?

Methinks he's really an anti-semite who has crawled out from under some rock to spew his filth.

Ratz,

Q has shown amazing restraint over the past few weeks. Let's cut him a little slack :-)

Besides which Q, she used your favorite word!

BTW, that "art" is totally disgusting. Art has devolved to a point where anything goes, but that doesn't mean it should.

I once knew the family (American) of a teen-age girl killed in that Sbarro bombing.

She had meant to become a teacher of children with disabilities.

#70 Ratz,

I'd leave the post as is. Oddly enough I can picture a person running around spreading filth in other blogs saying "I was the only one that dared stand up to that racist(TM) Charles and he banned me."

Instead this thread or that comment can be linked to. Ugly and shameful stain left on the walls here? Sure, but not reflecting on Charles, LGF or the regulars.

#70:

One can safely assume (I think) that anyone
who's a new poster and unloads with the type
of vulgarity we've seen this evening isn't fit to
stay around, no matter whose side they're on.

--
Tax the trolls!

Ratz (68):

On the other hand, Your answer to any comment is full detailed and well organized this means that you are specialist for this job.

LOL! Yes Ratz is ZOG Chief Propagandist and is undoubtably gleefully rolling around naked in the mountains of cash the Chief Elders pay him for doing such a fine job! Honestly, isn't that pathetic? Someone presents a fact-based, cogent argument and this is proof that he must be a specialist? Ratz, better dumb down your posts - you're hurting their self-esteem.

I was a little confused by this:

This is not all, but also ask the others to alert you if you go to the bathroom.

"Hey guys, alert me if I go to the bathroom." Someone who doesn't know when they've gone to the bathroom is in serious need of Depends and Ratz has many,many years to go before he gets to that point.

Q: LOL! I don't ever want to piss you off!

Zulubaby: Thank you - you're sweet as well as smart:-)

And what really keeps my anger sharp is the fact that Kristin can look at that image and get offended by the COMMENTARY rather than the picture itself....

RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR FACES and they look for something perhaps easier to deal with I guess...

#70 until that #59 comment it did not cross my mind that he should be booted. I hope charles only boots crass, threatening, or spammish stuph-not just disagreeable stuph. This was crass. Wasn't there an onion article about 9/11 being someone's birthday? So far this has been the worst thread in my short memory.

To get back to the original point of this thread, according to my understanding of Islamic law the people who made this mural should be executed or at least have their hands cut off. Isn't it against Islam to paint pictures of people?

Donna V..

It's the truth :-)

Well there ya have it - something that offends me (and which I will get over).

#20 Throbert McGee
Why would people in the Middle East be better off if they got a chance to worship your pretend God-on-a-Stick® while picking scabs off their radiation burns, you sick little puke? Go jack off to Veggie Tales or something and stop botherin' us grown-ups with your completely worthless verbal vomiting, nosepicker.

Good Lord Throbert, don't you get tired of knowing everything about metaphysics? Your arrogance is overwhelming. There is no doubt that you are quite intelligent and I admire the fact that you indeed think. You've done much more research than I have. It was easy for me to know I would never be able to figure the universe out though. I mean, for cryin' out loud, if there is a higher being, do you really think you're smarter than He is? . God-on-a-Stick®? Jack off to Veggie Tales? Puhleeeeze, get over yourself already

Hey Kristian, yah that "tuesday" was "rather depressing" wasn't it. Now theres a huge hole next to battery park city, what a bummer. You better watch ur ass if you said that to anyone who was affected by that day.

Tempers flaring, maybe the product of this limbo we are in, between the end of CNN's hits series "Sniper on the Loose: The Search for a Killer" and the impending incineration of hundreds in Moscow? Too much downtime.

I hope that Abdul guy is fake. He and his leaders really sound like those professional wrestlers who lose every match yet relentlessly shriek about their (self-perceived) greatness. But if he's not. . .

You will lose because we have seen what you are and how you live and we will do everything - including die - to prevent you from imposing that on us.

You will lose because the Jews have survived 6000 years, and survived people a lot more dangerous than you, having a lot less to defend themselves with, and they are not going to go away.

You will lose because because Indonesians want your mad-bomber brothers out.

You will lose because Iranians have lived under your glorious Sharia - and they hate it.

Give it up now, and your children just might see a brighter day.

#53 Throbert McGee

I'm not worried about Jesus forgiving me, because even if he is watching me from heaven right now, which I doubt, I have no doubts whatever that he'll be a good sport about the blasphemy thing when I'm called to the Pearly Gates -- that goes with being perfect and all-powerful.)

You don't get it do you? It doesn't matter what you (or I) think is fair or right or just or perfect. What does the book say? It the book is the source of information and authoritative then you have to start there. I know you've read it - you are very well researched. Please believe that I'm not slamming you as a person or even trying to. But when judgement day comes (if there is such a thing) and Jesus is in fact in the judgement seat, you complaints about what you think is fair and all that go down the toilett.

Before I read any of the comments, I saw this picture and thought it was Charles posting Halloween Party pictures. A strange world indeed.

Ratz,

How much do you get paid for "sitting all the day waiting for the comment" to answer immediately? :-) Perhaps, you can teach a course at David Vickery's university and turn them away from suicide bombing.

#55 In Lovecraft's fiction, Abdul al-hazred was a mad Yemeni poet who authored the Necronomicon , or 'Book of the Dead'. I imagine it would make good reading for the Islamofascists, as it was written in Arabic.

Link: [Link: www.locksley.com...]

Abdul al-Hazred has two complaints. I take them to be common to much of the Arab world and worth considering. They are different, to some degree contradictory and represent a fundamental misunderstanding of the Western world.

First, there Abdul raises the issue of Arab humiliation at the hands of the West.

"For we serve Allah, not you, and we shall dance to your beck and call no longer!"

What Abdul and his fellows fail to realize is that the Western world has no interest in having him at our beck and call. We certainly do not want to see him dance! The truth is far worse and far more painful; apart from our understandable concern with our own safety and security, we don't think much about you at all. We don't resent you, we are mostly indifferent. (Of course, if you have oil we want to do business, but we are willing to deal fairly and pay for what we use. We could just take it, but that's not our way). Culturally, you are no threat to us. We do not need your services. As long as you do not threaten us with violence, we care very little about how you live your lives.

Abdul raises a second justification for Islamic terrorism, this one more specific-

"You had your chance to be left alone. You decided to defile Arabia with your presence instead. "

So if we leave the Saudis to their own fortunes the bombs will stop going off? Anyone want to bet their life on that? I don't suppose we get any points for moving to Qatar since that could be "Arabia", too. No doubt Jersusalem is Arabia to Abdul as well. The Saudis invited us, Abdul. If you have a problem take it up with them. They're muslim; surely they respect your right to petition the government for redress of grievences, don't they?

How much happier do you think Allah would be, Abdul, if Saddam were King of Riyadh right now? Would the righteous and merciful rule of true Islam be ringing out a new era of flourishing in the Land of the Prophet? Please.

I cannot tell you how much we in the West enjoy being told that our mere presence defiles the sacred soil of the Holy Land. Let us make haste to remove our unclean selves from these pure lands.

We in the US allow muslims to come to this country, to settle here, to practice their religion. That's the American way; we've been taking in the tired and hungry of the world for over two centuries now. We believe our society is strong enough to sustain itself with or without you. You feel you need to be cleansed of us. That marks your weakness. We are stronger and more determined than you can possibly imagine. Turn from confrontation and we can coexist in peace. Feed the flames of conflict, ratchet up the belligerency, and things will not go well for you.

Its about freedom, Abdul. We have it, we've earned it, no way will we give it up. We have not become who we are because we are made of sugar candy. Learn to live with us or face an impossible future.

Boy, talk about late to the party! What a bunch of creeps have shown up since MSNBC's spotlight.

Zulubaby, beautiful defense of Donna V, and great defense all around. I think acuteanger (#84) best summed up our outrage at the attacks that this blog has endured--that they focus more on our words than on the actual outrage of what's contained in the article.

I also wanted to add a small point to
GKarp's post:

First, there Abdul raises the issue of Arab humiliation at the hands of the West

Eleanore Roosevelt said it best:

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.

The Arab world made its choices a long time ago. They chose, and continue to choose, destruction over creation, blind faith over reason, intolerance over tolerance, ignorance over education, rage over cooperation, and violence over diplomacy.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap. Faster, please.

Jeez... you freeking people can't even tell when you're being trolled. Amateurs.

95 Gkrp well sid.

THis might seem bit
wtf my a key isn't working.
wtf? ok it is.

You would think that once they got over here and experienced freedoms firsthand, they would want the same thing for the folks back in "mother Arabia", why be here in the first place?

Case in point, you don't have cubans fleeing cuba and then try to convince us that Castro's "not that bad". East germans jumpe from high buildings and died entangled in barb wire fences for the kind of freedom that allows the damnable CAIR to spout it's shit. digressing....

mommydoc,

Thanks! And the same to you. Taking down the trolls with style :-)

Hey there Abdul al-Hazred! Still trolling? You mad old arab you! I love that your name is in an improper form! If rendered correctly it would be Abd(or Abid) al-Hazred since the ul part of Abdul is equivalent to the al in al-Hazred.

I loved your 1st book "Al Azif" . It was so pulpy!

Why did they change the title for the Greek version though? "Book of the Dead" just doesn't have the same ring to it that "The Noise" does...

Teke-lili Teke-lili!

Watch out everybody or he'll sic the great old ones on y'all....

[Link: baharna.com...]

[Link: baharna.com...]

I wonder how many comics this guy reads..

:)

# 90 NTropy
If the book is the source of information and authoritative then you have to start there.

There are several "authoritative" books and they all contradict each other. That's why we have religious wars.

Having said that, I thought Throbert's God-on-a-stick post was really nasty and I'm glad he apologised for it. Before 9-11 evangelical Christians used to rant all day long about the homo threat. Throbert has probably got a short fuse on "the Bible says you are all damned" topic. I'm not justifying anti-Christian comments though. I hope Throbert leaves out the Christian-baiting in the future.

Can we go back to discussing the best nuke to drop on Mecca? ;)

Zulu (#77)
Sounds fine to me, I just don't want people to get too riled up about the troll (though I think that there has to be some sort of record for least amount of time it takes Charles to ban someone (like the record for longest/most extensive troll battle, which I think has taken over the LGF Crusade log...which I still can't get into..).

Model4 (#80),
I understand the use of it, but the lengths and intentions of the slur are almost too much; backed by the points that others here have brought up, the slur is too much since it is not so much a response to points as a vile ad hominem and leaves nothing to be argued with- only things to pondered. I think that I meant to say the type of post that should be deleted or edited (though especially not now, since the post is an important part of later arguments).

Donna (#82),
Exactly! Not only is LGF an agent of the ZOG, but now the posters are also agents! My favorite part of the message was the reference to my near-instantaneous reaction time of...12 hours....

Aint (#92),
That's the funny thing- I'm not quite sure what my position gets paid, let alone that it existed (but I guess that's the point of the ZOG- you don't know who's an agent, or even if you're one!).....As for working at An-Najah, I'm afraid that my facade of calm and logic might collapse fairly quickly in such a place, but it would be interesting to see...

Well, back to my waiting to strike down the enemies of the ZOG....ummm, I mean to strike down the check.....ummm, ~~~YOU SEE NOTHING, YOU HEARD NOTHING~~~THE ZOG IS YOUR FRIEND~~~THE ZOG DOES NOT EXIST~~ (I think that's how it goes....)

-Ratz

#27 Kristian: Fair enough. :)

Oh dear...it seems I waited too long...

Alex and Zulubaby--

I'm flattered that you've resorted to stalking me on this site. Of course, I've said nothing on this thread to offend you, and you both launched ad hominems on me before I said a word to you. But don't let that knock you off your high horse.

re: greatbigjerk #24

Actually, I agree with him on this point. I would love to see alternatives to oil; I'm no tree hugger, but I'd like to see the technology improve such that hybrids, fuel cells, etc. become viable and efficent, and thus more common. It may have an adverse effect on the oil industry, but I'm sure a new industry will emerge to take its place - capitalism is good like that.

Oil will always be needed in some form, though - anything with mechanical parts will need lubrication; electrictiy is commonly produced by gasoline-powered generators. But I think if we reach the point where we don't need to pour any money into the Middle East, they become a non-factor. Russia and China wil probably still buy oil from them, but without a lot of the US money, their ability to fund terrorist operations will take a pretty big hit

Theoretically

W.

They're stealing GWAR's act...

...or is it vice-versa?

Let's not lose focus. We all know what radical islamic cultures are like. The question is how to reverse the slow genocide by explosion of the jews in theri ancestral home.

You know how if kids misbehave they get a time out or get sent to their room?

We need an adult version of this punishment, where they don't get to come back.

It's called transfer.

Special message to Abdul:

Ia! Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn R'yleh! Gort, Klaatu, Barata *cough* necktie.

#93:

Crill, you do realize that the Necronomicon and Abdul al-Hazred was made up by an antisocial New Englander in the early part of the last century, right? Right?

He's as real as the Jersey Devil (the chicken-demon thing that attacked the Delaware Valley & the Pine Barrens -- not the hockey team).

[Link: www.hplovecraft.com...]

Just to be a pedantic ass, the Necronomicon really means "The Book of Dead Names" == Lovecraft sucked at Greek. The 'original' Arabic title is Al Azif, but Lovecraft stopped using it because he thought Necronomicon sounded cooler.

In any case, the fucker's just trolling and really should be ignored. Unless, of course, he's in commune with Dagon. In which case, you should stay away from open water, find a shotgun, and shoot anything that limps.

The immediate alternative to oil is more oil:

[Link: www.sierratimes.com...]

Charles, please show your desire for a balanced board and ban the poster of this comment,

Carefully choosing the words, I characterize him as a filthy brainless shit-filled assfucker.

It is highly offensive.

I've noticed now, at least in part, why the folks here are so pissed off. You get trolled so very easily, and while some noticed this, others spout more calls to violence.

And then this...

Even in this small image you can see the ghoulish delight in the eyes of the woman at left,

...is so very irresponsible. It engenders comments like the following.

No it is self defense we must fight back. Mecca must be destroyed.

Don't make me smack a fatwah down on your candy ass.

(BTW, I love the word fatwah, but only for it's literal interpretation)

Is that simulated blood smear on the doorjamb or Arabic writing? Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.

Throbester McGee : If you want to vist my site, your comment is something of the basis for one of the perspective used there. Religion is an interesting thing to study from a neurological perspective.

Umar Bin Nassar : Notice how no one replied to your comments? They already know the Truth™ here. Just know that if you try and introduce any perspective, it's not appreciated.

Why would people in the Middle East be better off if they got a chance to worship your pretend God-on-a-Stick® while picking scabs off their radiation burns, you sick little puke?

Rabid tapeworm infestation!

Oh, Abdul, we don't want you to dance to our beck and call any more.
We want you and the rest of your death-obsessed knuckledraggers to just die.
Expire.
Shuffle off this mortal coil.
Stop wasting oxygen.
Become worm food.
Rot.
Leave the rest of us alone. We want nothing to do with you or your gutter religion. (It became a gutter religion when your types dragged it there). (in reply to a troll, no less)

This is a disgrace and an outrage against humanity--but until we have a President who stops called Islam a "religion of peace" and saying "Islam is peace" and until Canada's Prime Minister stops defending these people and we get him and his party out of office for the disgrace their deliberate ignorance of these obscene behaviors is, we cannot begin to make our abhorrence felts with any real vigor. Until our leaders stop kowtowing in the dance of political correctness which serves the evil that this is by complicity, we as people and humanitarians, cannot make our disgus manifest. Either our leaders start to listen to the angry voices of their people raised in protest against this 'peaceful religion' which has killed so many of us around the world this year, or we vote them out and get leaders who will act on our repugnance and anger and do our bidding rather than behaving liked cowed canines in a junkyard.

--

How can any wonder why LFG has been accused of racism?

#110 Wah,

My dearest Wah. Offended by words?

What religion exactly do you follow? I'm interested in your blasphemy code.

I don't know how you will get others to follow your code because there is no state religion in America, but hey you can try.

I suppose if you don't want to read all that blasphemy you can stay away.

I really like your "Daddy make them stop" pleas. They make you look so strong.

You still in college or sumptin? Where the nice college professor will protect you from hearing any bad words? Who is going to protect you when you get out in the real world?

Racism again ....

For the .. eh, let's say sixth time:

How is disparaging Islam 'racism?'

Define Islam please - is it a race or is it a religion.

If disparaging Islam is 'racism,' is disparaging Christianity 'racism?'

W.

#110 -- Who made those comments? Why won't you name names?

Wah, why do you come here? Why do you care? Why don't you just go away?

addendum:

I'm really sick of these screams of 'racism,' 'hate,' etcetera. Let's be honest here - there is a difference between venting, and outright hatred. Often, people (including posters here) are just fed up, irritated, feeling helpless, and just plain want to vent. For some it may have some kind of cathartic effect ... I don't know. It is an enormous leap in logic to assume that people here 'venting' would take their anger to the next level and actually harm someone. No, in fact it is mostly Muslims who are responsible for this.

So again, unless you read about some angry person with a green football T-shirt shooting up a Wendys or Wal-Mart, please ... take your puerile quips elsewhere

W.

For what it's worth, GBJ drives me (and a few others here, it seems) a bit crazy sometimes but he's something I wish I'd see more around here - opinions and perspectives often at odds with the majority here that he can support and ably defend. He's also pretty clever at insults, but he's not usually one to start them. Marketplace of ideas, that sort of thing.

Also, Charles please forgive me if I'm out of line or have missed them, but what are your rules on banning posters and deleting/editing posts? If there was a ban or post delete made in this thread, and I'm not sure it was, it seemed a bit quick. One of the things I like about LGF is the freedom and light (but rapier-wit) moderating hand.

#39 Glad to hear it Abdul.

Now its you or us. The gloves are off.

Fine with me. You have only one small problem. We control the high ground. And we are determined that it is going to be you. Afghanistan was just for openers.

America's new soup craze. Cloudy Mushroom. Have some.

Kisses xxxxx

So again, unless you read about some angry person with a green football T-shirt shooting up a Wendys or Wal-Mart, please ... take your puerile quips elsewhere

Dude, don't give Mookie ideas.

(Hey, if he'll try to post under fake names to create the hate he complains about...)

#116 -- M.Simon -- there is no "Abdul al-Hazred"!

Stop feeding the damned trolls!!!

M. Simon : Actually I'm more offended by destructive bias. I'm not sure what the word is for disparaging an entire religion based on the actions of a few of it's member. If you want to supply it, I'd be happy to use it in the future, as it would be more accurate.

However, there is a certain element of racism still, as it is generally assumed that Arab/Muslim mean the same thing, at least taking into account the...stuff...posted on this board. Also note the prevelence of the use of "Arab" or "People from the Middle East" in the above quotes.

We want you and the rest of your death-obsessed knuckledraggers to just die.

Hmm?

What religion exactly do you follow? I'm interested in your blasphemy code.

I don't know how you will get others to follow your code because there is no state religion in America, but hey you can try.

It woudl probably be most easily represented by the term "pantheism" and as such blasphemy is a word that is more difficult to define or recognize. I don't wish to force others to follow it, but if they think it helps them understand the world and live in it peacefully, then good for them. I have no desire to force my belief on anyone, but I will share the opinions that reflect it.

Wayne : Define Islam please - is it a race or is it a religion.

How this, "The people or nations that practice Islam; the Muslim world." Or you could pick up a dictionary. Like I said above, when disparaging the entire people who practice the faith, perhaps "racism" is not the right word. When those remarks are directed at "Arabs" or "Middle Easterners", then racism is dead on.

BTW, just as a refresher, one populare defintion of "racism" is "discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race ". Just so we both know what definition of the word I'm using.

Actually, while Greatbigjerk often does live up to his moniker, he has shown a few times that he is capable of having a civilized discussion. And at least he does have a position and sticks to it, at least from what I have seen. If he would lay off the ad hominem attacks and stick more to the issues, I think he'd actually provide a pretty good 'opposing voice' to the majority.

Or maybe I'm just being too nice?

W.

Robert Crawford : Wah, why do you come here? Why do you care? Why don't you just go away?

It's like busting a pimple of hate. I love busting pimples. I will go away. Probably fairly soon. But you will either hear what I have to say, or Charles will have to start to censor opposing viewpoints. I am well in control of my epithets now that I've noticed there are some thinking agents on other side of many of the posts here. I care because I exist, and I know you do too.

Wayne : Often, people (including posters here) are just fed up, irritated, feeling helpless, and just plain want to vent. For some it may have some kind of cathartic effect ... I don't know. It is an enormous leap in logic to assume that people here 'venting' would take their anger to the next level and actually harm someone.

It is not an enormous leap. That's like saying it's an enormous leap in logic to think that some Muslims will act on the information provided by their leaders about the identity of their oppressors. Whether the information is accurate or not has no bearing on the actions that result from it. For some it may be cathartic, for others, it might very well be the social support and encouragement they need to start acting out revenge fantasies. Surely you can see this.

"as it is generally assumed that Arab/Muslim mean the same thing"

I disagree - if you've been to the Middle East, you'd know that not all Arabs are Muslim. In fact, in Egypt there is a significant Arab Christian population over there.

Are Pakistani's Arab? How about Indonesians?

Not all Arabs are Muslim and not all Muslims are Arabs - heck, I almost converted to Islam about 10 years ago and I am definitely un-Arab. You cannot use an 'assumption' like that to accuse another of racism, which to most people is really a pretty heavy charge - it's that people throw the word around like it means nothing that really irritates me.

W.

#29
I think some other medium other than dung could have been used if the artist had meant no slur. How gullible do you think we are? Go feed your bs to people who need to believe it.

Justthefacts #115,

I agree with you about greatbigjerk. I think I disagree with him, but except for the occasional initial ad hominem, he argues with some degree of rationality and I hope he sticks around - even if we do disagree on many things.

re: 121

" ... for others, it might very well be the social support and encouragement they need to start acting out revenge fantasies. Surely you can see this."

Actually, I see the opposite ... I see people who are irritated and post raving, frothing-at-the-mouth messages (note: this is not the majority, by the way) and then see them walk away from the computer, sighing and feeling a little less-burdened and then taking a nap or something.

One of the more-vocal posters was a person who lost a loved one in the September 11th attacks. I'm not going to judge him, or label him anything for venting. What can he do ... he has to bury his loved one and then watch the media and CAIR gloss over Islamic aggression. Heck yea, there are people frustrated - I'd rather see them vent here than vent on a Mosque.

Anyways ... I like to ask a lot of questions because I like to establish benchmarks. As much as I disagree with you, Wah, at least you answer my questions concisely. So I'll ask another one: Being completely honest, what do you think is the probability (say 5%) of an LGF poster actually acting out his anger and frustration in a criminal manner?

W.

Wah #121,

In response to Wayne:

It is an enormous leap in logic to assume that people here 'venting' would take their anger to the next level and actually harm someone.

Wah improbably states:

That's like saying it's an enormous leap in logic to think that some Muslims will act on the information provided by their leaders about the identity of their oppressors. Whether the information is accurate or not has no bearing on the actions that result from it.

Do you mean like when one Muslim leader informed his flock that their oppressors are Americans? Yes, I do believe that there is a lack of Twin Towers as a result of that particular Muslim leader.

Now, not all Muslims may follow that Muslim leader (I certainly hope they don't). However, since some Muslims (and a not insignificant portion of Muslims) either cheered on the attacks and/or (in)directly supported the attacks, I'm afraid that the burden of proof is on you. You see, thus far, the number of attacks and/or attempted attacks carried out by folks with a little green football as their icon and Charles as their priest has been approximately zero.

mommydoc
good eleanor quote how didi hillary miss it
zulu spot on
I have one point
lets take the pali's at their word that this is all about freedom and nationhood etc....
can someone name a popular revolution where this kind of exhibit flourished ?
India ?
USA ?
even the Ingrun was put down by the Israeli gov't once formed and the certasinly had no "art" exhibits about what they had done
HG

#118 Robert Crawford,

I like feeding trolls and then sticking them with knives. It's so much fun. No need to watch if bear baiting is not your kind of sport.

Personally I've been a fan since FIDO net. Get back to me if you know what I'm talking about.

#119 Wah,

There are words and then there are crimes. I try to keep the two separate. The KKK guy can say any thing s/he wants. When s/he assaults then it is time to act. Other wise I'm not bothered. I LIKE very free speech. But then I'm x-Navy and can swear like a sailor. Perhaps a Naval career is in your future? Who knows?

You're all ignoring the fact that this is all the fault of the dirty French and their Bavarian co-conspirators.

OT, but did anyone else see the front page WSJ article yesterday suggesting the relative liberalism of Wahabbi (sp?) Qatar? This was really good news to me - women being given the right to drive and to vote (even if the election is for a body with no power, as yet). The queen having her picture taken and it being shown in public. It talked about the relative freedom of the press (though it didn't really take Al Jazeera to task for representing fundamentalists). Very, very interesting article with a little bit of hope.

Apparently, the reforms in Qatar have pissed off the Saudis so much that they withdrew their ambassador to Qatar.

Unfortunately, I can't violate copyright by publishing the article here, but if you haven't read it, try and pick up a copy of yesterday's WSJ.

(And look, this from one of LGF's chief "racists"!)

Compared to FLAME on FidoNet, this place is full of rank amateurs. That echo could cause chest pains in zen masters.

"Whether the information is accurate or not has no bearing on the actions that result from it."

It has a tremendous bearing on public perception. The damnable acts committed as a result of misinformation precisely elicit our responses. If there was any/more truth to the claims of these destructive automatons, we might not complain so loudly.

Wayne : Being completely honest, what do you think is the probability (say 5%) of an LGF poster actually acting out his anger and frustration in a criminal manner?

If LGF has (or gets to) a daily readership a couple of orders of magnitude higher than it is now, then I think the percentage quickly grows to the high 80's or 90's. Especially if that growth includes a complete lack of argument against the threats of, and calls to, violence that are in obvious evidence here.

Like I said previously, many of the posters here are in obvious control of their actions and opinions. But when even one without the wisdom of a more advanced age sees some of the stuff that gets tacit approval here, and is exposed to it continually for the duration of their formative years, it is a small leap to think they could take action based on the groupthink. Knowing in their misguided heart they would get posts of approval when they come back and say, "Man, you should have seen the blood flowing from that Islamofascist's face last night. He had no idea I was coming for him."

They would, of course, be wrong, but they wouldn't know that until later, and might even start to question the rest of the group who can't see the obvious need for violent expression against people who worship God-on-a-stick©.

Ariel : You see, thus far, the number of attacks and/or attempted attacks carried out by folks with a little green football as their icon and Charles as their priest has been approximately zero.

And when compared in relative size, LGF is approximately 8.3 x 10 ^ -6 the size of of the Muslim population of the world. If there was even one act of violence caused by those who frequent or get their information from LGF, it would be as if 120,00 had been commited by the "real world", at least relatively.

Wah #133,

Especially if that growth includes a complete lack of argument against the threats of, and calls to, violence that are in obvious evidence here.

But, there are arguments against the threats and calls to violence here. I've made a fair number of them.

And the threats and calls to violence are quite few and far between.

err, "120,000" and "committed".

I'm new to the blog world. Can anybody give me a definition of a 'troll'?
Thanks
CC

Wah #134,

The proportionality argument is a bit whacky, at best. The number of evil acts by Meir Kahane can not be scaled up by the ratio of Jews:Muslims to see whether the acts of the Muslims is OK by a relative yardstick.

Each evil act should be judged on its own (de)merit.

If two Americans kill 12 people (or whatever the snipers killed in the end) or if eight Chinese kill 12 people there are still 12 dead people.

"...I think the percentage quickly grows to the high 80's or 90's"

Based on what expertise? Where are you getting these statistics? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, however uninformed it may be, but to state that it is almost a certainty that someone will perpetuate a violent crime because they are exposed to the opinions of LGF post(wo)men is utterly ridiculous. It could be coincidental that that same example may already contain the tainted seeds of hatred and may need little or no encouragement. That would not be attributable to LGF, sorry.

Then..."Especially if that growth includes a complete lack of argument against the threats of, and calls to, violence that are in obvious evidence here."

But, wait..."...many of the posters here are in obvious control of their actions and opinions"

Which is it? Tempered realism, or total unfettered threats of violence?

Tried posting this yesterday, but site was down...

Re: Jamie Irons #4 (in another thread)

Why do Muslims in our country not organize themselves to peacefully demonstrate, or at least speak out in some fashion, against the Islamofascists?

My opinion is that most "peaceful" Muslims don't believe that the Islamofascists are doing anything wrong, i.e. their following the rules of Islam and killing infidels.

Somehow, we will have to motivate the "peaceful" ones to reign in the wackos. M.Simon likes the phrase, Nuke Mecca!. Perhaps that is extreme but maybe it will take that threat to get them off the fence. You know, guilt by association. Until they have something at stake (if you can't make the pilgrimage to Mecca, then you're aren't keeping the 5 Pillars of Islam, thus you can't get to "heaven"), then I don't see them speaking out against their wayward brethern.

My son is in elementary school and when the teacher tells the class that they can't have recess if someone talks during a test, it motivates the students to make sure everyone understands there's to be no talking. If kids can grasp this concept, surely Muslims can also.

Am I equating lost recess time to the deaths of innocents? Absolutely not! However, until every Muslim realizes that they have something to lose, will this every end?

Michael_in_Tennessee

What amazes me is that however much Abdul's words say that he wants the US punished in some way--everything the Islamic world does is to PROVE something to the west.

No one in the west seriously believes that arab arts and sciences are anything but a state-run joke--and yet here you have an "art" exhibit.

Other places you see the radical Islamic forces trying desperately to mimic the civil rights movment by putting a few well-draped and subservient women in front to catch the eye of america's stupi-media. Yet, in the middle east the demonstrations have few women that allowed in front. It's all a pale mimic of the west as they fight the west.

Sometimes the way they imitate everything we do; I want to ask..."If you dislike the west so much--Why go to such extraordinary lengths to mimic our way of life? "
Is there nothing about your own societies that is worth a museum?
Are arab men not handsome enough to make a great Monet-style painter--paint?

Where's the abstract artists that all cultures started in all those cave-paintings in prehistory?
Where is the museum to show off the arab world's latest inventions?

Why have a museum which proves to the world that you have no artistic talent?!

Wah,

Again, I disagree - out of curiousity, though, where did you get the number of subscribers - using 1.2 billion Muslims, puts the LGF at nearly 10k using your number, I think (not being flip, I'm really curious).

More to the point, nowhere in these posts, even in the more rabid comments, will you hear someone call for the murder or maiming/intimidating, etc. of Muslims. There are some like, "Nuke Mecca" that I don't think should be taken seriously, but for the most part I think if anyone came here and said something like, "I think we should kill all Muslims in Detroit" that he would be torn to pieces and probably banned and reported to the FBI.

Compare this to othere forums I've read that are not so tolerant of a non-liberal viewpoint. I could point you to Michael Moore's site where a WWII veteran was cursed and reviled, or Ted Rahl's site where anyone who offered some kind of criticism was labeled, "McCarthyist," or just about any AOL forum where you are sworn at for disagreeing and are even banned (yes this happened) for posting the First Amendment. Compared to a lot of other forums in this vast web, I think this one is relatively civil.

W

greatbigjerk (various posts)

I, for one, appreciate seeing you participate. I will not be one who "stalks" you on other blogs (Anil's blog will never grace my monitor). I am happy to see anyone who has at least two neurons connected and working.

If the rest of the world would develop alternatives to oil, maybe. Oil revenue, which functions much like welfare, keeps broken states and dysfunctional institutions afloat. Cut off their lifeline, and they'll dry up and blow away on their own (well not really, but internal change would be a lot more likely).

I absolutely agree. I have long urged ME states to immediately begin an oil embargo against the US. It would be good for us, and bad for our enemies. Also, good for the Russians (who need the business) and our relationship with them (I write this as a Cold Warrior with a certificate from the President to prove it - but they are not the enemy any longer).

BTW: Daimler-Chrysler (I believe) will next year introduce into the US a fleet of fuel-cell powered test vehicles. I do not know when they will be ready for market.

Ratz (#68)
Most distressing. I was thinking that D. Vickery learned something or was at least ready to rethink his (idiotic) position. I still cheer you on your near success and think you did a great job.

So, how do you get alerts from LGFers when you're in the bathroom? LOL

Athos (#66)

What I would like to see are more Muslims who are willing to take up arms and stop those who are perverting their religion rather than blame everyone else for their problems or justify terror on others while whinging that they are being unfairly blamed for the actions.

Isn't that happening in Indonesia? Charles posted this from the Washington Post here (I never did have time to read the comments). At least it is a start. One fewer hiding place for the enemy.

Ntropy (#87)
Thanks.

Wayne,

Charles said the other day that LGF gets 10,000 unique visitors a day.

Until they have something at stake (if you can't make the pilgrimage to Mecca, then you're aren't keeping the 5 Pillars of Islam, thus you can't get to "heaven")

Again, just to adress the "nuke Mecca" thing. This belies our own misunderstanding of "the other".

It is not so that if you don't got to Mecca you don't go to heaven. Islam requires all Muslims with the means to do so to make the pilgrimage to Mecca. Muslims without the means to do so are not expected to go and go to heaven without having gone to Mecca. A radioactive sheet of glass on the site of what was once known as Mecca probably would be acceptable to Allah as an excuse for not making the hajj.

Nuking Mecca would do exactly nothing. There is nothing strategic about nuking Mecca. It will not "end Islam" it will not deter terrorists who are trying to kill us. It's a total misunderstanding of religion and Islam.

Wah (#133)

They would, of course, be wrong, but they wouldn't know that until later, and might even start to question the rest of the group who can't see the obvious need for violent expression against people who worship God-on-a-stick©.

First Throbert (#20), and now you. If I were to refer to any of your pet, protected, downtrodden, oppressed by white people, sensitive, peaceful, blah, blah, blah, groups in this way, you would be railing at what an insensitive racist I am.

Hypocrites.

Well, allow me to digress from the he said she said stuff to go back to the Pizza scene and the mural.

Charles is on mark calling the depiction of the "Scene" ghoulish. The intent of the exhibit is celebratory.....loving the death and maiming!
That is one key difference in our cultures. We will kill.....and have photo images sometimes of the carnage (certainly enough to fuel an artists imagination)......but we do not run...say..the Infra Red images of Apache Helicopters 20mm chain guns virtually disassembling Iraqi soldiers with a depiction "Gotcha! Die Sand n*****s!" Nor do we celebrate by way of a "real life" museaum exhibit the napalming of a VC village.

The mural is even more disturbing. LGF'rs should scrutinize it. Maybe someone can also translate the Arabic placard describing how the bombing is presented to the viewer. But, if one looks closely, in the upper left section, we see what looks like a child and a mother holding a baby being obliterated. Now, in the West, we of course have killed civilians.....sometimes deliberately, sometimes by accident.........but we have a sense of culture - and more importantly - A SENSE OF SHAME. Glorifying an act like this in Western or Asian art is absolutely repellent. As are notions like dressing babies in suicide bomber costumes.

Wah and others - even if they don't buy into this sick culture of death and proudly painting scenes of baby killing - have to admit one thing. The moderate Muslims permit it. The moderate Muslims are complicit.

So, like M Simon had already come out with, it seems to me it is becoming a matter of us vs. them. I cannot see such a militant Islamic culture co-existing with Asian or Western Civilization. Radical Islamists are like a deadly virus....growing into a moderate Muslim society where the germinating conditions are favorable and the people not adverse to hosting the disease - then the virus goes out to healthy populations and kills in a scattered fashion.

The healthy society goes on - damaged but not crippled by the outbreaks. Nevertheless, of the opinion that they cannot tolerate the disease. As in any outbreak, you have to kill the virus, prevent it's moving into healthy populations, eliminate the hosts in the midst of your healthy society...but some virus will keep coming until you find and eliminate the main reservoirs.

Of course some moderate Muslims are offended by the disease analogy.....but face it guys.....the suicide bomb exhibits and murals exhalting the killing of even mothers with babies wouldn't last a day in the West or in Asia. If you don't like viruses, I would be happy to change the analogy to radical Islamists being fast multiplying cancers cells, if that makes you feel better.....and I am hardly a Zionist. But for all my critiques of Israel, the Settlements, and some aspects of the Jewish-American community....Jews are not a deadly menace to America or even the Ummah, for that matter. Radical Islam and it's support base is.

I can't believe I just spent at least a half hour on this Lovecraft Invasion. And it isn't even a rainy afternoon here. Ah... these kids can't come up with something substantial and legal so they're trying to ginn up imaginary monsters now. Give it a rest already.

#145 - racist statements are only racist when applied to certain races or beliefs. Christianity and Judaism don't apply. Dontcha know?

Oh gosh, that we fight over mere words when the article started with photos of an art exhibit glorifying the Sbarro pizza murders.

Confuzed : I was asked what I thought and expressed that as well as a fuller explanation of the reasoning behind it (a number of years exposure, without a moderating adult influence (or even an encouraging redneck one), a need for social acceptance, and a mistaken path of action of path to achieve that acceptance).

Which is it? Tempered realism, or total unfettered threats of violence?

Both, obviously. The two aren't incompatible, given a large enough audience. Were that audience to grow in size by a couple of zero's they would be even less incompatible.

Wayne : More to the point, nowhere in these posts, even in the more rabid comments, will you hear someone call for the murder or maiming/intimidating, etc. of Muslims.

Hullo? Oh, Abdul, we don't want you to dance to our beck and call any more.
We want you and the rest of your death-obsessed knuckledraggers to just die.

Photios : You misread my hypothetical, read it again.

Charles Copeland : Defintion #2 is probably the most accurate for this forum.

And speaking of objective journalism (well not really but I thought I'd mention it), we read from the linked article.

Reuters, the world’s leading news information organization, refuses to label as terrorists those who hijacked four airliners and deliberately killed as many as 10,000 innocents.

re: 149

Again digressing a bit and dwelling on minutia - that's the first post I've seen by Reaulin, and it was in response to Abdul who said,

"That said, I hope it convinces many of our Palestinian bretheren to cast off the yoke of Judeo-Christian oppression and slay those who fancy themselves our masters."

I don't take that as a threat or as an indication that he is going to go out, try to obtain a GE minigun and camp outside the nearest mosque - it's simply chest thumping, is all.

I mean, really - I could point you to AOL forums where I've received personal e-mail death threats after one or two posts. If there's anything that could incite people to go off the deep end it's those like Michael Moore, Ted Rahl, NPR, Indymedia sites ... those people are completely off their rocker. You utter one small word of dissent and it's, "F%$^ YOU YOU @#$ @# %$^$ REPUBLINAZI !@#$ @@#$ "

LGF is tame compared to them

On a side note, I wonder if people realize that Abdul means slave

W

Oh gosh, that we fight over mere words when the article started with photos of an art exhibit glorifying the Sbarro pizza murders.

Ah, but that's just the thing, you see. Wah and his ilk are more concerned with keeping up nice, tolerant, whatever, appearances than with actual, spraying-blood-and-shit-in-your-face, brutal truth.

Accurately compare someone to an intestinal parasite, and he'll have you banned from the polite society.

But Arabs coming in their underpants at the sight of mass murder-celebrating murals - oh, but we must not rush to conclusions! That would be so unenlightened and un-ladylike!

#143,

The big deal next year is the introduction of production hybrids.

The thing is we don't need ME oil. There is plenty in the US of A if we just look deep enough.

[Link: www.sierratimes.com...]

#144 James,

Nuking Mecca and Medinah would reduce Saudi influence on Islam if nothing else. It would also be a severe psychological blow. Wars are fought on the ground and won in the mind.

Wah #149,

Chooses this interchange as evil:

Oh, Abdul, we don't want you to dance to our beck and call any more.
We want you and the rest of your death-obsessed knuckledraggers to just die.

Umm, maybe whoever wrote this just mean the death-obsessed folks should kick the bucket? Is that ever so slightly possible?

I guess this is primarily for Wah and GBJ:

Perhaps I can summarize this debate, clarify positions, get a thumbs up/down on the issue so that we can get on to something more substantive, such as the threat of Muslims who want to kill or subjugate all infidels and how we think that should be handled.

LGF Hate Diagnostic

1. LGF collectively hates all Muslims, yes or no.
2. If (1) is yes, LGF collectively wants to kill every last one of them, yes or no.
3. If (2) is yes, it is wrong to kill all Muslims, yes or no.
4. (Insert number or percentage) hateful remarks as decided by (insert nominee for Wise Censor) over (insert time) period of time proves LGF collectively is a hate site.
5. LGF collectively hates all Muslims who want to kill or subjugate all infidels, yes or no.
6. If (5) is yes, LGF collectively wants to kill every Muslim that wants to kill or subjugate all infidels, yes or no.
7. If (6) is yes, then it is right to hate and/or defend yourself against Muslims that want to kill or subjugate all infidels, yes or no.
8. The hate displayed in the comments section on LGF is much more/slightly more/the same as/slight less/much less dangerous than the hate that is displayed in the linked articles/photos on LGF.
9. If the Wise Censor or "responsible" LGFers do not challenge, dispute or delete every single hateful comment, then LGF collectively is a hate site, yes or no.
10. The beliefs of individual posters on this subject don't matter because we can only speak of LGF collectively, yes or no.
11. If LGF collectively argues over this topic without pause, how long will it take to gain consensus? Period can be measured in minutes or centuries, or anywhere in between. Alternately, you can also measure this answer in terms of storage space for archives on subject.

Is it just me, or has this subject been more than fully explored on LGF? Charles, how about designating one thread to argue the hate issue so that those who are sick of it can be sure to avoid it?

GBJ (#104):

I'm flattered that you've resorted to stalking me on this site.

Not exactly. In fact, I never meant to stalk you. I did quote Zulubaby's post in another thread just to show you that these rather double-faced posts have not gone unnoticed here (cf. Great Big Jerk's remarks at Anil's site for a glimpse of his outstanding hypocrisy). For God's sake, you even had the nerve to say this:

I'm no shrinking violet and gave it back to them, but what I saw there scared me.

What the fuck did you gave back? You started it, moron.

Of course, I've said nothing on this thread to offend you, and you both launched ad hominems on me before I said a word to you.

Not on this thread. No guts for that. You did it over at Anil's site instead, back when comments were enabled there—perhaps you thought that no one from LGF would actually read your particular assessment of this site as a magnet for haters. That means that, well... basically, you are what shall be construed as a plain coward.

But don't let that knock you off your high horse.

And now that we are talking about them 'high horses', can you please explain to all the folks here how is it that you think they're all a bunch of right wing nuts who hate everyone else?

Can you just answer one question and take responsibility for your own stupid words just for once? Are you still denying that you called Charles "a dealer for hate and anger junkies," and that every single LGF reader that comes to this sight [sic] don't come here to learn about the world—they come here to confirm their prejudices and anger?

By being so deceitful and dishonest to the rest of the posters you have placed yourself on a par with the scum at Anil's site. By the way, I still maintain this is true:

You are indeed just that, a completely unfathomable ass who invariably resorts to name calling.

PS: Don't bother to reply unless you anwser any questions.

#108 Sure I do. I actually enjoy Lovecraft's fiction.
#100 It was Lovecraft who spelled the name wrong originally. Our friendly troll 'Abdul' obviously does not speak Arabic either.

Wah:

Nicely sidestepped.

Unfortunately, reasoning doesn't pass muster as a qualification to spout probability, regardless the length explanation that goes with it. Rationale doesn't produce statistics, precedence does.

Secondly, there is an incompatibility issue between well balanced and not.

I happen to think there is a healthy dose of counterpoint among LGF'ers and I have seen few, if any, truly racist remarks put forth during my time reading here. I have as much confidence that physical violence won't result from reading LGF as you do that it will.

Wah:

However, there is a certain element of racism still, as it is generally assumed that Arab/Muslim mean the same thing, at least taking into account the...stuff...posted on this board. Also note the prevelence of the use of "Arab" or "People from the Middle East" in the above quotes.

Yes, you know, as it so happens, the people at An-Najah University are Nablus Palestinians (i.e. Arabs). Arabs are not a separate race—unless you are a racist yourself, and a very stupid one at that.

Q: But Arabs coming in their underpants at the sight of mass murder-celebrating murals..

I think you saw a different picture than I did. Drop the porn and step away from the Internet.

Religion of peace? hahaha

Stupid religion? yes

what dirtbags...

Wah,

Speaking of stepping away from the Internet, I think it's time you stepped away from this site. You are making a nuisance of yourself by agitating the people here who mistake you for someone with whom to engage in intelligent debate. You have an agenda, but it's not as veiled as you think it is.

And if you consider Q's mentioning underpants as porn, you need to broaden your horizons, just a tad.

Re. #17
Umar,
Arafat's old-lady, Sewer Arafat, converted to the cult of mohammed; she's a flipping mohammedan, already. Have a nice day.

Again - look at the celebratory mural Charles posted.....the upper Lefthand side....a child and mother holding a baby getting blasted.

This sort of art is absolutely alien in Western and Asian civilization.

Yet it passes in Islamic civilization unchallenged by even the "moderates". Do you Islamics have a clue of how sick you are?

Even the sick Nazis didn't post murals showing them killing women with babies in their arms.

And if you consider Q's mentioning underpants as porn, you need to broaden your horizons, just a tad.

That's just another sign of his fixation on "propriety" and being ladylike.

Wah, your quoting me out of context isn't suprising. Were you unable to comprehended that the post was saying people like you, Kristian and Anil are misguided when trying to use censorship as a one-way street?

The face you attempt to put on your efforts here make me think you'd try to rescue fish from drowning by throwing sacks of kittens in the ocean. If you really cared you could at least buy as many body-bags as are comfortably affordable and send them to Russia. The victims you champion are plying their trade yet again.

Wah (#149)

I understand your post perfectly. Your italics on the word 'obvious' indicates your use of irony. Your use of the slur "God-on-a-stick©" is unnecessary in your context unless you agree with that slur.

To those who don't like worrying about words, words and ideas are where the intellectual action is. Everything else generally springs from that.

#115, #124, #143, #155

The greatbigjerk wants you to know that he's been banned, so he won't be answering your posts. The only other thing he said is that he regrets stereotyping LGF'ers as a whole.

notajerk (#167)

Which news channel is he on?

#137 Charles Copeland 10/25/2002 09:19AM PST

I'm new to the blog world. Can anybody give me a definition of a 'troll'?
Thanks
CC

There are two ways of thinking of it Charles. One is mythological characters who cause trouble. The other is like fishing. Cast out a really stupid comment in hopes of getting noticed. Some people like to be the center of attention and will post comments that will be certain to get people angry just for the attention. A prime example is #16 Abdul al-Hazred. Nothing of real interest or thought to contribute, just a caustic comment looking for attention.

This exhibit is one of the most disturbing things I have seen since Sept. 11th. That the Palestinians cheer the sucide bombers is one thing, but to put such a graphic exibit as a celebration angries me and I hope all decent people who see this. It is important that LGF
continue to show these revolting pictures to alert us all of the threat of the Islamkazies. Especially since most of the conventional Media still will not show this for fear of being Politically Incorrect. There is a Sbarro Pizzaria on my way home. Whenever I can I like to stop and have something. I guess it is one way to show soldarity with the Israeli people in this hour of fiery trial.

Zulubaby (#168):

Which news channel is [GBJ] on?

But you were stalking him, remember? Why is it that I kind of smell something fishy now in all of this... Charles, did you really ban him?

Yes, I did. The final straw:

Mr. Johnson sounds stupid...

Maybe so, but not stupid enough to let him keep wasting our bandwidth.

Okay. I admit that I got Necronomicon translated wrong. It does mean "The Book of the Names of the Dead" and not "The book of the dead. You are a better nerd than me in every way and I hang my pointed lowly head in shame.

:)

Emery

PS; Good job in taking care of Kristian. Congraluations to Donna V, Zulubaby, Acutcranger and Charles in getting rid of that
troll. So Kristian was depressed because the Sept 11th attacks ruined his birthday! I have heard of some real narcassitic people, but Kristian takes the Cake! Talk about intense navel watching! For the record my birthday is Sept. 16th and both last year and this I was damned glad to be alive to celebrate it
Mommydoc #96, thanks for that Eleanor Roosevelt quote. It is very much the truth. I will remember it, Thank You.

Charles was gracious enough to allow the two-faced greatbigjerk to post here. greatbigjerk took advantage of that graciousness and insulted Charles. Obviously an error of judgement on his part. A reminder that we are all guests here and it's plain bad manners to be rude to our host.

Lovely stuff Charles.

We rae going to have to start keep score for the troll bashing......kudos to Donna V, Zulubaby, Mommydoc, and others.

Sorry, Charles, can't keep score for you. You're the Hammering Hank of troll bashers....

BTW - in answer to an earlier post about Islam being a religion or a race??? Has anyone considered calling it a cult until they experience their own reformation and return to the status of a religion?

Hi, David--you're welcome. Yeah, it's a keeper.

(Borrowing my roommate's computer)

greatbigjerk said:

"CJ (I call him that becaues we are not on a first name basis, and Mr. Johnson sounds stupid). . . "

This plainly indicates that I think referring to you as "Mr. Johnson" sounds stupid. It is not intended as an insult, and it is plain error to try to spin it otherwise. You've been fact-checked.

But don't let the truth get in the way of your efforts to narrow the band of acceptable opinions here.

GBJ out (for good this time, I promise) and looking for people seeking honest debate.

I forgot one thing. I hear Professor Bellesiles is looking for a research assistant. You appear to possess the skills and approach he values.

Hmm. You could have prevented a misunderstanding by putting quotes around "Mr. Johnson."

You weren't banned for your opinions, regardless of your noble attempt to paint yourself as a victim of censorship. In spite of your subsequent insults, since it appears I had a genuine misunderstanding of the intent of your words, I'll remove the block.

And by the way, jerk, another way to handle the situation would have been for you to email me, before getting on here and whining about how your noble opinions got you banned from LGF -- but that would require you to provide me with your email address, wouldn't it?

Truce, man. I withdraw my previous charges--misunderstandings beget misunderstandings. I am hesitant to give out my email--my job requires me to keep my opinions, and my sometimes unpleasant alter-ego, under wraps. In any event, I'll tone down my act, and hope that certain other individuals (besides the host) will respond in kind. I'll issue no more personal insults to posters.

Peace out.