Strangely enough, MDA also services palestinians.

Also, they have no movement to make the same changes to Red Crescent, whose ambulances are frequently used to ferry suicide bombers and weapons...

Scumbags.

I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

This kind of stuff makes me ill.

This is the same group that organized the blood drive to donate to the Paleostinians in Jenin. If you recall, the blood was rejected, and the oppressor Israel flew in some "clean Arab" blood from Jordan.

[Link: www.magendavidadom.org...]

Over at the Shark Blog, the Shark notes: [i]I would be less bothered by this if the Canadian government applied this rule equally and penalized the Red Cross chapters in every country that possesses "occupied territory". Like Canada, for example.
[Link: dir.yahoo.com...]

Aiee. #4 should be: Over at the Shark Blog, the Shark notes: [i]I would be less bothered by this if the Canadian government applied this rule equally and penalized the Red Cross chapters in every country that possesses "occupied territory". Like Canada, for example. [/i]

[Link: dir.yahoo.com...]

In sobriety we say "stinking thinking" (our own best thinking) repeatedly got us to the bottle.

I think we should coin this judicial stink think.

Hell, I'd be less bothered by it if they'd also taken charitable status away from Hamas and Hezbollah, which they have not to date.

The Canadians make me almost as sick as the French themselves. Nos 1 and 7 are right - Palis use their ambulances to ferry suicide bombers and armed terrorists, but they're o.k.? Hamas and Hez-bull-a are tax exempt? Amazing.

Let's tell them where they can put those hockey sticks.

Don't confuse "Canada" with the Canadian government. One's my country; the other's an embarrassment.

Thank you for noting this move by the Vichy Government of Canada.

#3

If that's true, they just received my first and last donation.

JG

Sick, stupid motherf*ckers, I'm sure next they'll denounce Israeli bomb sappers for disarming bombs in the "territories."

Really freakin sick, Canada.

Not much I can add. Pathetic.

So when are we getting the Red Cross' and the Red Crescent's tax exemptions revoked? It would also be nice to see HRW and Amnesty lose the status too, both operate in the area, and since "Canadian law does not give tax exemption to volunteer groups that function in 'occupied territories,' it would seem illegal to maintain those statuses.

They should also have to withdraw the statuses of any organization operating in Kurdistan, what was East Timor, Corsica, the Basque region, Chechnya, etc. Amazing how openly anti-Semitic and hypocritical these bastards are.

Blame Canada!

Yeah, Magen David Adom is the problem:
[Link: www.magendavidadom.org...]
[Link: www.jewishjournal.com...]

What the hell is wrong with the world?

Canada's hypocrisy is unbelievable, especially when you consider this:
(I posted this elsewhere yesterday but nobody paid attention. Guys, please read it!! )

Canadian company Talisman is being sued by the Presbyterian Church of Sudan for participating in the Sudanese Government's ethnic cleansing of Christian and other non-Muslim minorities in areas of southern Sudan where Talisman is exploring for oil. [Link: www.iabolish.com...]

Rev. John Sudan Gaduel, Pastor of the Presbyterian Church of Sudan in Bentiu, has had churches in his Parishes bombed, church leaders slain and villages annihilated by helicopter gunships to clear the way for oil exploration. He says "Talisman is on the front lines of human rights abuses in southern Sudan and it is time they are held accountable for their role in the brutal 'jihad' that is killing my people and creating millions of refugees."
The complaint alleges that Talisman is engaged in an "unholy alliance" with the National Islamic Front Government of Sudan by knowingly participating in the Government's campaign of ethnic cleansing, to create a cordon sanitaire around Talisman's oil exploration, extraction and transportation infrastructure. Talisman continues to provide financial and logistical support for the Sudanese military knowing that the armed forces are engaged in a "jihad" against the non-Islamic civilians in the south. The roads and airfields built and maintained by Talisman serve as strategic military assets for the Sudanese armed forces who use them to launch bombing runs and ground attacks on civilian targets in violation of international law. Oil revenues not only earn Talisman significant profits, they also provide a war chest for the Government to purchase weapons and build munitions factories for its "jihad" against the south, which has resulted in 2 million civilian deaths, 4 million civilian refugees, and the enslavement of innocent men, women and children.

"Canada -- we're not France, but we're trying real hard."

Anti-semitism in Canada. How despicable.

This article is not clear.

But, this article has a little more detail about the decision.

Apparently, the appellate court rejected Custom's argument that the charity should lose its tax exempt status because it provided services outside the '67 borders. But, it agreed with customs that it should lose its tax exempt status because it did not supervise its funds correctly.

Either way, the ruling is terrible and is being appealed to the Canadian Supreme Court.

Here's some other disturbing news from article I linked:

The CCRA has used this argument against “a couple of hundred charities,” some of which already have been deregistered or threatened with deregistration, he said.

Among the many Jewish organizations that have been denied charitable status are a school near the old Hadassah hospital in Jerusalem and an organization that puts handwritten prayers into cracks in the Western Wall, Drache said.

So while Hezbollah maintains its tax exempt status in Canada, hundreds of Jewish Charities have lost theirs.

Even many years ago, I heard stories from Canadian Jews about the Judeophobia there.

But it is rather puzzling -- The historic and cultural reasons for Judeophobia in Europe and the Arab societies have little relevance to Canada (at least outside of French Quebec).

So WHY? Any ideas, anyone?

Implementation of this policy is not new; since 1997, Revenue Canada has prohibited tax-deductable donations to Israeli organizations that operate within the occupied territories. This policy is intended to prevent indirect support by the Canadian government to Israeli settlers, because:

"...to assist in providing the religious institutions and the health, education and other social services that encourage and sustain Israeli settlement in the Occupied Territories would be fundamentally at odds with Canada's position." [which views Israeli settlement beyond the green line as illegal under international law]

As a Canadian who believes Israel should return to its pre-1967 borders, I support the goals the policy is intended to achieve (flame on...). However, i recognize that the list of recognized charities is somewhat dubious, and I think Revenue Canada might have been too egar to apply the policy in this case. I also suspect that this wouldn't be an issue if the International Red Cross would pull its head out of its ass and recognize the membership of Magen David Adom.

I'm a Canadian living in the USA and the more I read stuff like this, the more I realize how wise I was to move.

This makes me sick to my stomach.

I'm a Canadian living in the USA and the more I read stuff like this, the more I realize how wise I was to move.

This makes me sick to my stomach.

The `CANADIAN' government (so-called `Liberal' government) was elected to office with just 40% of the vote. It is hardly the voice of the Canadian people, most of whom support Israel.

So WHY? Any ideas, anyone?

To my American eyes, Canada (particularly the politicians) always seems eager to prove how "European" they are. This seems to be a part of that impulse.

Dorothy (#21) - Canada does not have the real distinction of having a free democratic society, like the US.

Canada is (or was) essentially an offshoot of the UK, and, of course France. So the roots of Canadian Jew-hatred are essentially European. The US, on the other hand, tried (and did) dissociate itself from the old time-worn beliefs and hatreds. That's why I firmly believe that the US model holds the key to true freedom - secular and religious.

I've been in many Canadian government buildings and have heard anti-Jewish statements openly being made.

Essentially Canada is very closed politically; it's run by a very powerful civil service (kind of like the State Department, but far less open to scrutiny) that essentially calls the shots.

Add to this the fact that our PM makes all the decisions, and we in fact have "taxation without representation." In other words we do have apparent representation (Members of Parliament) but they really have no say or power. The PM and his henchmen have all the say. Take it or leave it.

Fergosa:

The pre-1967 boders were never permanent borders, but rather were armistice lines resulting from the 1948.

Why is it exactly that you call for return to these indefensible "Aushwitz lines" as Abba Eban once referred to them?

Jordan who controlled the land prior to 1967 has renounced any interest in the land. Israel has claimed the land as well as the Palestinian Arabs.

Do you have a reason why Israel should retreat to the pre-1967 borders? Is it just because the Palestinians said it was their land? If so, why didn't the Palestinians say it was their land prior to 1967?

If your reasoning for calling for a retreat to pre-1967 borders is because the Palestinian Arabs say it is there land, for consistency sake, you must also call for Israel's total anihilation, because the Palestinians have claimed that all of pre-1967 Israel is their land as well.

Is it possible that you have no rational reason for calling for this retreat (which not even UN resolution 242 calls for) because the Arabs have suggested that as part of their peace plan?

Before you buy Arab propoganda hook-line-and sinker, you should take time to actually learn about the history of the geographical dispute.

It is Israel's land, if they choose to give it to Palestinian Arabs, that is their choice, but it is Israel's land and to deny them tax-exempt status while others are not, is nothing short of official jew-hate policy.

#23 -- The Canadian gov't may have been elected with less than 40% of the vote, but our current government was elected by a minority of the popular vote, so I don't think we have a leg to stand on here.

Canada is so far ahead of the US in many ways (lower crime, health care, liberal policy) that these black-eyes really stand out.

I am not about to turn Canadian (unless there is another Bush waiting to be President), but it is not a black-and-white issue. Canada isn't all bad, just like the US isn't all good.

TP

#22 I suppose by "i recognize that the list of recognized charities is somewhat dubious" you mean recognizing hezbollah na dother terrorist groups as a legitimate tax exempt organizations. How is that only "somewhat dubious"?!? Hezbolla is a terrorist organization that kills innocent civilians. Magen David Adom is an organization that tries to stop innocent civilians from dying.

The problem isn't that "Revenue Canada might have been too egar to apply the policy in this case." Its that it would even think of applying it in this case before going after known terrorist organizations. It sends the clear message that Canada cares more about getting Israel out of the disputed territories than it does in stopping terrorism. It says Magen David Adom is more of a threat than Hezbollah. It says Jewish organizations are not worthy of the same equal protection under the law as Muslim or secular organizations.

re: anti-Semitism in Canada

Contrary to some posters, I don't think Canada has an especially acute problem with Jew hatred, certainly not any more than the United States (although Europeans take the cake).

People have also been talking (without much understanding) about how `powerful and undemocratic the Cdn government is, but in fact, the feds here are far less powerful than the federal govt in the U.S. And, like the U.S., Canada is a federation, where the provinces counter the influence of the `strong' federal govt.

Mind you, I think our PM is a disgrace and the decision to revoke the Jewish Red `Cross' organization, while not doing so with the Hamas.

Judy

You may see Canada as "taxation without representation" the same way I see the US Congress as representation without representation.

In the US, we have this sham that we elect representatives to vote as we want them to,. In other words, to represent us.

In reality, they get elected and get on thier own ego platforms (guys like Jesse Helms) and vote as they want as an individual, not as a true representative.

That's our shame.

TP

Another misconception propounded by Fergosa:

The Inrternational Red Cross does not have its head up its ass. It knows exactly what it is doing. This is not a careless omission, but rather a spiteful, mendacious and evil act of Jew-hate.

While MDA saves lives, its crescent ambulances try to take them by smuggling arms and terrorists. The IRC knows this, but does not care.

The turned their back on the Jews in WWII and are doing so again. History will shame them and they do not care.

History will shame Canada for this and they do not care.

The Jewish lobbying groups must do a better job in Canada or Canadian Jewry must decide if it has a place in Canada's future.

Although the US has a checkered history as far as its policies toward Jews and Israel, something like this could never happen in the US. I call upon all Canadian citizens to contact their MP to erase this historical wrong.

#29 that great candaian health care, where you get to wait months for cyour surgery. That is why so many people flock to Canada instead of the U.S. for their medical care. Oh wait I got that backwards. By the way we have had many administrations here that were elected with less than a plurality, (lincoln, clinton, and several others) not just our current.

and if you are willing to abandon your country just because another Bush might be elected, good riddance.

# 29
The point is, though, people are saying `Canada, Canada, Canada' as though all Canadians agree with the revocation.

Also, Canada is not necessarily ahead socially from the U.S. Health care may be `free', but what if you have to wait nine hours to see a doctor? Crime may be lower, but then the courts dole out pitifully meagre sentences (one woman, who with her husband kidnapped at least two teenage girls, held them hostage and sexually assaulted them, received 12 YEARS imprisonment for her imfamy).

I love my country and I don't think America is better, but let's not generalize.

#33 -- You are right, it probably wouldn't happen here since we treat Israel as the 52nd state (maybe 51, look out PR).

I am beginning to understand the Christian fundamentalism that drives our policy with Israel. It's not about helping Jewish people, it is about keeping the state whole and triggering the end times.

A good many people (and I except perhaps the Bushes) see the Rapture coming sooner if they keep Israel strong.

Talk like this has become a little louder as of late. It explains a lot.

#34 -- Ease up Superfly. I was kidding about leaving the US, though I am serious that I doubt we'll survive another Bush in the White House.

#32 So all us stupid voters just keep voting for the same people over and over again even after they betray us? Do you really have that little respect for the voters? Jesse Helms has always been extremely popular with his constituents. That is why they keep reelecting him. Just because he does not agree with your views does not mean that he fails to represent the people who voted for him.

#38 BINGO!!!

Yes, I believe the corruption of the system is so thorough that people just keep voting for the name they know in many (not all) cases.

And, yes, I believe the system perpetuates the corruption by fund raising and PR and that people have lost sight of what representation should be.

And, yes, I believe the two major parties both perpetuate this. Bush and Clinton both have raised obscene amounts of cash to get their people in office.

And, yes, I believe these efforts snowball enough people that the same slime gets elected.

And, no, I am not just talking about Congressmen I disagree with. I am talking about the entire system.

I'm shaking my head reading those comments about how crime-free, etc. Canada is. Yes, it does have some good points, but believe it or not, the "US System" is much more dynamic. I have never seen a system wherein people go so ballistic over curtailment of freedoms -and quite rightly. The US tax system is a good example of this.

We Canadians have NO say whatsoever in how the country is run. It's quite elitist in many respects; it's a "top-down" democracy much like the UK. The US has a "bottom up" democracy. Much healthier.

Try to picture a tax rebellion in Canada. Don't make me laugh.

#36 or else it is that we think Israel is a democracy with far more respect for human rights than any of its neighbors. And that the Jews are hated through out the world and need a state if they are to survive as a people. Do not impune the motives of all supporters of Israel. I personally want the rapture to be delayed as long as possible and do not think the state of Israel has anything to do with it..

I'm trying to see things from the Canadian gvt's point of view, but I can't bend far enough to get get my head up my ass.

There really is no explanation for this Canadian agenda other than anti-semitism. And it is an "agenda". Yeah, they don't want to indirectly support settlement activity, but MDA's link to promoting settlement activity is remote at best, and then balance that with MDA's altruistic work. THEN, to allow the tax exemption for Hamas and Hezbollah with their undeniable link to mass murder! There is no equal application of the standard used to deny MDA's tax-exempt status. Reason for this unequal application to jewish organizations? Well, they are jewish organizations.

TP:

Yes no right or wrong, just biblical prophecy driving our policy.

Do you not think it is wrong to single out the Magen David Adom for losing charitable status?

If you have not noticed, the Democratic Congress has consistently voted on pro-Israel measures. Do you think that the democrats are beholden to the Evangelical Christian influence?

How if you are excepting Bush from the belief in the Christian biblical prophecy, do the fundamental Christians exercise this control on our policy? Through martian janitors in the white house? Through mind control over Colin Powell and his map-makers in the state department?

How do explain the Powell administrations mendacity toward Israeli defensive measures if all his boss wants is the end of days.

Your failure to acknowledge that our governement and Christians may see the difference between a democracy faced with daily terror attacks, and a corrupt dictatorship who summarily executes its citizens, exposes you as just another dhimmi.

J Lichty , we've had this conversation before. I posted before under "alex", but I'm using "fergusoa" out of respect to another "alex" who predates my posts.

A review:
You said: (1 2)
I said: (1 2 3 4 5)

I don't think we need to rehash the arguement; I've consigned myself to disagree with you. I hardly post here because I don't have time to address all the ridicule my leftest views seem to generate; however in this case I thought I could make some comments regarding the orgins and motives of the policy that might be appriciated by some. I'll crawl back into my liberal cave now.

- Cheers / Alex.

#39 basically you are saying you are much more wise and perceptive than the average voter. If only they had your wisdom then they would know that their representatives are not representing them! I have never met an actual voter anywhere near as blind as you describe them. Could you point one out for me? If your theory is true than no incumbent would ever lose. The Republican takeover of the house woould never have happened. Neither Bush 41 or Carter would have lost their reelection bids.

#40 -- The US people do not go ballistic over curtailment of freedom unless it hits their wallets.

There was a very telling AP article in August about how much freedom Ashcroft and the Bush cronies stole pre and post 9/11.

There has been no furor, which disturbs me.

That was the point of the article.

The continued abuses of power (like Saudi lawsuit threat from yesterday's blog) scare me to no end.

It would be nice if this country was full of idealists out fighting to better our country. It would be nice. A lot of us voted for a different way, but we got a regime that needs to be changed.

#46 name some examples. I have heard over and over and over again about how Bush is curtailing our freedoms but no one ever gives examples. I do not know anyone who has had their freedoms curtailed. I have not heard of anyone who has had their freedom curtailed. The best I have heard is that we are mean to some people who were guests in our country and that we took some enemy combatents prisoner.

#43 -- I see little difference between Republicans and Democrats, both parties are beholden to money.

Superfly, I believe that a large number of voters are frustrated and do not see how they can force a change.

Until big money is taken out of it, Chrsitian fundamentalists, Jewish fundamentalists, oil, big business and a host of other special interests will continue to have too great a sway.

We are at a time where we need to tighten up our system.

First thing to go is the 2 party game.

What would I like to see?

1. An independent President
2. Close borders to illegals
3. Remove all illegal aliens
4. Impost extreme penalites on corporations skirting US tax laws
5. T E R M L I M I T S

I guess by helping raise $2400 for MDA in the Blogathon makes me the worst possible blogger in Canda's eyes.

Good. See if I ever buy Canadian ever again.

Superfly, the rights article is:

Americans' legal rights since terrorist attacks
The Associated Press
08-19-2002

Some of the fundamental changes to Americans' legal rights by the Bush administration and the USA Patriot Act following the terror attacks

Why Americans support Israel...

TP: How about a link?

#48 you believe a lot of things, but so far you have not put up any evidence to support these beliefs. All you have are faith based assumptions about our system being corrupt.

If "I see little difference between Republicans and Democrats, both parties are beholden to money." then you are blind. Or else you chose not to see. I can think of dozens of major policy differences in a few seconds, everything from the democratic belief in appeasement as foreign policy vs. the republican belief in preemptive strike, capital gains and other taxes, environmental policy, social security reform, welfare reform, etc. If the parties are so much the same then why do they attack each other so much? Why don't they just combine into one big party and that will leave them all a lot of headache?

By the way, neither party gets elected because of money. They get elected because of votes. Both of the parties are beholden to voters.

#51 Wow. That's simplistic. So we are right and all of Eurpoe is wrong? My, how stupid. Maybe there is some middle ground?

Superfly,

Why are you so insecure that you keep disparaging me personally?

TP

#52 -- No link since AP archives cost $$$

You have the headline and pub date. Check the library, or if you have a Lexis Nexis account you can get it.

It's worth the read. I cut it out and saved it.

Tyler,
its very convenient that the article you quote from about "Americans' loss of freedom" is not online. Why don't you just quote from it, since you have cut it out and saved it? Surely you can name a few of the freedoms that Americans have supposedly lost due to Sept. 11?

(this isn't a personal attack, either).

I don't think I was ridiculing you Fergosa, nor did I call you a leftist. I merely asked you some questions regarding the origin and basis of your beliefs.

Those posts do not address the issues I raised in this thread. Your argument appears to be that Israel was exoansionist in 1967, and unjustifiably attacked Egypt in the Sinai.

This is moot regarding the "west bank" as Jordan attacked Israel from the "west bank" after it was warned not to intervene before Israel advanced into those areas.

Although I also dispute your claim that Nasser was not going to attack Israel, your "unjustified preemption" argument holds no water with respect to Israel's eastern border.

#50 I just read the article. most of it was groups like the ACLU saying we are less free and quoting poles saying the same. Very few instances of actual facts.

The few that were quoted were hardly significant. Like lawyers having their conversations with clients monitored (of course the article left out the fact that the lawyers would be told ahead of time) Others were having american citizens targeted for FISA warrents. Not really diminishing much there either since we are just talking about warrants. The only other major change was granting the FBI authority to moniter political and religious groups. This is not much of a threat either, since there is no good reason for them to have an exemption in the first place..

I'd keep going, but it sems like I am doing a better job providing facts supporting your position than you are.

just type in the name of his article "Americans' legal rights since terrorist attacks" on yahoo and search and the article will come up.

#55 name one personal disparagement I have made. I would appreciate the use of actual quoes.

I have asked you to provide facts. So far you have provided theories and accusations but no facts. It took me about thirty seconds to find that article on yahoo by the way.

#57 sure is an attack. You think it is "convenient?" Well, I am at work. Thye article is at home.

Why do I even try?

I hunt down the title and date for you, and all you do is complain that I didn't get the silver platter out?

I'm hurt.

I try to carry on a discussion, and all I get is Superfly calling me names and you accusing me of lying.

I want to discuss facts and beliefs and you guys want to discuss me.

That leads me to believe you are on shaky ground.

#62 yet again you only accuse me but do not quote. Point out where I personally insulted you. Please include the post number and an actual quote.

I did a quick google search.

This appear's to be the story TP is referencing: Terrorist attacks prompt changes in Americans' legal rights

#61

Superfly,

You have bid me "good riddance." You have put words in my mouth and painted me with your disrespect of anyone who disagrees with you. You have insulted me.

TP

#64... Yes, that may have bee the correct one. I was rushing my AP search. It's a good read, too.

Ashcroft scares me.

Someone needs to explain why we have a religious fundamentalist in the role of protecting us from religious fundamentalists.

;-)

Sensitive aren't we, Tyler? I never accused you of lying, I just said it is very convenient that the article you cite is not online, and therefore, not available for scrutiny. Surely you could think of an article that is on line about this freedom issue, since freedoms are dropping all over the place...

It is the "liberal" psycho-drama following Sept. 11 in microcosm (ie. "if you criticize my `root causes'argument, this is censorship...", "...because few people ágree me about the wisdom of going to war against the Tali-Qaeda fascists, there is no debate on the issue" etc. etc.)

Get over yourself.

#65 the only time you actually quote me in this post is after you said you would leave if another bush was elected. Later on you said were only kidding. You did not say that when you made your original comment. If you had said you were only kidding in the first place then I would not have said good riddance. All it takes is a winking emoticon to get that point across.

Their are lots of posters who disagree with me but get my respect. They are the ones who use facts to back their ideas up. Through out this thread I have repeatedly asked you to back up your posts with facts. The more I ask for facts the more you accuse of me of insulting you.

Another issue Tyler: just bec. one group of people is described as `fundamentalist', the same as another, this doesn't make them equal or the same.

As much as I despise the ethical socialism of this freak Jerry Fartwell, he and his clerical friends are not the equivlanet of Islamic fundamentalists; instead, you have to look at the white supremacist movements in the u.s. to see the parallel with fascist Islam.

#66 because religious fundamentalist have just as much right to work for the government as every one esle.

re: 67

Not only that - but it is a never-win battle for those who disagree with left-leaning elitists. You see, if the majority of the population does happen to agree with their position(s), they point to the polls and tout the view of the democratic majority; however, if the majority is in opposition to their views (for example, regarding a war with Iraq) then they pat themselves on the back for being a 'vocal minority' with the courage to stand up to the rest of the nation(world, etc).

Either way, you're wrong ...

W.

Ashcroft scares me.

Of course he does. If he did the same things, but worked for a Democratic administration, then he wouldn't scare you.

It has been proven time and time again that it does not matter what a person does or says, just so long as he or she has that all-important "D" next to his or her name.

#59

Superfly, You are presenting facts? Where? Give me links for everything you claim.

Until then, your words are beliefs like mine - worth no more or no less.

T

#72

Knuckles,

Read my posts. I am not for a 2 poarty system. Ashcroft under any party would scare me.

I am anti- Big Politics, not anti-GOP.

Yes, I think Gore was the better choice in the presidential race, but it was clearly that he was the lesser of two evils.

I'd rather have a legit 3rd or 4th choice.

TP

This is for poster 29, TP. I'm a recovering bilingual Anglo-Quebecker who served on many a Ministry of Education of Quebec advisory committee and I can attest to the fact that government decisions whether at the provincial or federal level seem to be based on let's get this legislation passed before the next session or let's get a committee decision before lunch because the restaurant du jour won't hold our reservation if we don't show up on time. This is true of the vaunted health care system which is imploding as I write. The wonderful government planners without consulting the medical profession itself limited access to medical education because they didn't want too many doctors with the result that today while doctors are retiring en masse, there are no replacements to take over. I, myself, and members of my family are without family doctors because our doctors retired and cannot be replaced and newcomers to cities haven't a hope of getting on a list . Furthermore, because of the fee for service structure decided upon in the seventies when the system was established, many doctors insist on giving immunization shots purely for the money and performing other non-demanding services which could be handled by para-medics for the very simple reason that the whole system was set up with a punitive attitude to the medical profession who were less than thrilled with many of the bureaucratic and unreasonable strictures it encompassed. So here we are thirty some years on with the service in a shambles and new taxes proposed to put band aids on it here and there. None of the proposals are based on the know-how and expertise of practicing medical professionals but rather that of louts with poli sci degrees pontificating in the corridors of power. Look elsewhere, Tyler, for your utopia. I love my country but Chretien and his government as well as the politicized civil service are as cretinous as American dumbocrats.

Thank you, Millie, for the voice of reason and sad experience.

#74

So Gore, a proven liar, one who loves to tax and spend people to death (another way of taking away people's freedom), who was in the pocket of Unions who give their members no choice on how political funds are spent, a man who stood by while his President abridged another citizen's rights by lying under oath, killing our military and inteligence agencies, selling (for campaign contributions) technology to China so that they could lob missles into our backyard and develop better nukes, and bribed North Korea and other countries in the sake of appeasement, was better than Bush, who was endorsed by the Democratic Party of the state that he governed.

Vote for me. I invented the pizza.

I will agree with TP on one account - I am a third-party kidna person (Libertarian); though I believe that Bush is by far a lesser evil than Gore; I shudder to think where we would be now with this war against terrorism if Gore was in charge and people like Janet Reno were still in Washington. I didn't vote for Bush in 2000, but I probably will in 2004

W.

#77 --

So Bush, a proven liar and son of a proven liar and suspected treasonist, a former drug addict and substance abuser, is better?

I laugh at this. Gore ain't my hero, as I said. He was just less evil. And a majority of voters agreed with that.

The Bush family are traitors and W is about to kill our sons and daughters over oil, and all the right comes up with are more tears about Clinton's BJ.

Get over it, Knuckles.

Honestly, this is why I DESPISE the 2 party system. Both parties suck. Issues are not black/white, right/wrong/Republican/Democrat

We need independent thinkers.

Back to the subject at hand...

The article posted by #20 jeff seems to have a few more facts in it than the original article. Here it is again;

[Link: www.jta.org...]

People should save their anti-Canadian outrage until they hear the ruling of our supreme court (after all this Magen David Adom keeps its charitable status until the supreme court makes a decision). I also want to point to a quote from the above article:
"In an unrelated incident, customs agents recently seized a box of newsletters, entitled “In Moral Defense of Israel,” as they were entering the country. The agents claimed the material “may constitute obscenity or hate propaganda".After an uproar in the media, the material, which was published by the Ayn Rand Institute of California, was quietly released."

I was surprised not to see something about this on LGF. Isn't it absolutely disgracefull that the CCRA was able to admit it was wrong in a previous case involving anti-semitism.

Y'all can get back to me on Bush when he finds Osama, they get the Anthrax mailer and figure out how to do more than alarm the public with color-coded terror candy.

Our system is down, boys.

#73 i think I did a pretty good job at quoting in 34 53 59 & 63. Besides I never asked you for facts or links for everthing you claim. Just things like the claim like 46 that "There was a very telling AP article in August about how much freedom Ashcroft and the Bush cronies stole pre and post 9/11." where you were making the first accusation. These are big accusations and I am only asking you to defend them with some examples, which you still have not done.

I have no problem with you claiming tha I insult you. I just ask for the courtesy that if you accuse me of such that you quote me like I did you above in this post. I do not think that is much to ask.

So Bush, a proven liar and son of a proven liar and suspected treasonist, a former drug addict and substance abuser, is better?

A proven liar? Prove it.

The son of a proven liar and treasonist? Treason? Can't you do any better than "I know you are but what am I"? Hahahaha! Anyway, where I come from, the sins of the father are not the son's. That would be barbaric. I'd think someone like you, who is all about our "rights" being preserved would see differently.

A former drug addict? Prove it. I saw those stories get discredited in the mainstream media. Where were you? If this were true and he were a democrat, you would be praising him for overcoming his addiction, a model to be raised above all others...

The rest of your post shows where you are coming from... I never mentioned a BJ, so divert as you can, my FACTS stand.

I'll get over it, after we fix the numerous messes that your Clinton left behind... Heck, that may be a very long time, concidering N. Korea might have nukes already, and we missed the chance because Clinton was too worried about where his "missile" was pointed. We won't be losing soldiers for oil, that's for sure.

Knuckles,

You clearly see what you want to see. He is not MY Clinton.

I'll try one more time and then I am done for today.

I do not support EITHER party.

Can you accept the fact that I THINK FOR MYSELF and do not need a party to dictate who/how/why I should vote?

CAN YOU GET IT?

I am me.

I am not a party guy.

See you tomorrow!

TP

#79 "So Bush, a proven liar and son of a proven liar and suspected treasonist, a former drug addict and substance abuser, is better?" Damn straight he is better. Gore has a history of appeasement. Bush has a history of blowing our enemies up. I prefer the later.

What does proven liar maen? I do not know anyone who has never lied. The key word is "former" substance abuser. Bush gave up the sauce years ago and is pretty open about it. And what is with calling the First Bush a suspected treasonist? Who suspects him of this. I certainly do not. This is an man who risked his life defending our country in WWII.

"The Bush family are traitors and W is about to kill our sons and daughters over oil, and all the right comes up with are more tears about Clinton's BJ."

How are they traitors? They sure are popular for traitors too. Bush is not going to kill a single child of America. Saddamm may, not Bush. If you still think this is just about oil, you must ignore basic logic. If oil is all that mattered bush could just remove the embargo and not put the whole middle east in a state of turmoil. What else could this possibly be the reason for this war? I wonder.

"And a majority of voters agreed with that." And once we ammend the constitution to make how the majority of voters voted important, then this statement will be relevant.

I don't doubt that you think for yourself, TP. It's the thought process that needs improvement.

#85 BTW I used that fancy cut and paste feature of my new fangled computer dohickey to move your words down to my post. You ought to try it out sometime.

re: 85

". If oil is all that mattered bush could just remove the embargo and not put the whole middle east in a state of turmoil. "

That's a pretty good point - if this was all about oil & money, then all Bush would have to do is just lift the embargo ... pretty painless, that.

W.

Fergusoa:

You are a Canadian liberal who wants to see Israel retreat to its 1967 borders to undo its expansionism.

I am an Israeli liberal who wants to see Canada retreat to its 1867 border to undo its expansionism.

Can we find some common ground?

End the Canadian occupation of British Columbia!

Let's see if I can roughly translate post #89. 'But the fuck out, it's none of your god-damned business!' How'd I do?

Quite franckly I have to agree on this one, if the rest of the world had buted out the Israel/Palestine situation would have been resolved peacefully decades ago. (and I don't mean the peace of the grave.)

sorry I'm late to the party...

It's not exactly "the latest"--the ruling was upheld by the Federal Court of Appeal (FCA) a while ago by a 2 to 1 decision. Canadian MDA is currently seeking leave to appeal to the Supreme Court, during which time they still maintain their charitable status.

The Canadian Jewish Congress is lobbying the newly appointed (Federal) Solicitor General to add Hizbollah and similar groups to the list of terrorist organizations. I'll forward the email I got about this to Charles.

News release about CMDA's current status:
[Link: www.magendavidadom.org...]

Terrorists just infiltrated an Israeli village. At least two young girls seriously injured. The village is over the Green Line so no ambulances for the 12 year olds?

I have never been as disgusted by the ruling Liberals as I am now. To any Israelies reading these posts please understand that this is not the general view of the Canadian public, but a few leftist dinosaurs kept in power by the inability of the fragmented right to form a decent coalition, and a pig-ignorant Quebecois PM who clings to the deluded fantasy he'll be UN secretary general one day. In a couple of years we'll be rid of these fool's. In the mean time please forgive the appalling trash that has come and will continue to come as long as these wads are in power.

Ed #94,

Thank you for your support. While I favor a two state solution (at some point far in the future), denying ambulances...well, what more is there to say?

News says five injured Israelis and one dead terrorist. The two girls are in critical at this point.

#90 ---Alex: "if the rest of the world had buted out the Israel/Palestine situation would have been resolved peacefully decades ago. "

really? ...please explain.

israeli #89,

hahaha. Great post!

Alex (#80) It was discussed on LGF. In great detail.

Isn't Canada's Prime Minister called Cretin, or something like that? I suppose this policy on Magen David Adom was formulated by some senior civil servant at their Foreign Ministry named Pierre Moron, Guillaume de Stupide or Jean Claude Connerie (to any non-Francophones out their, that last one -no relation to Sean Connery- loosely translates as "dickheadedness").

O Barabara, quelle connerie est la politique Canadienne!

Millie 75

As a medical refugee from Canada (Ontario and Quebec) I can state you are pretty much correct.

The government medical policies, particulalry in 'la belle province' are loopy to the point of being hazardous to the population's health.

Try and find an oncologist in Montreal. Good luck.

As regards the menagerie that passes for a federal government in Canada, all I can say is that Chretien seems to be taking his cue from Hezbollah's Nasrallah, who he sat adjacent to in Lebanon last week, after which he said, "Who is he?"

David #8, Canadians are NOT the Courts.

Doroty #21, I've lived in Canada for MANY years and worked for both the University of Toronto Law School and later in corporate law. Perhaps because many of the lawyers with whom I worked are Jewish I didn't hear what you are hearing about anti-Semitism. Even today I go from one year to the next and though I read of instances OCCASIONALLY which are usually taken VERY SERIOUSLY INDEED, of headstones being kicked over in a cemetary somewhere or a synagogue being sprayed with a swaztika, these instances are RARE. I never in my daily life hear anyone say anything about Jews or for that matter, other races. We have hate laws here and if you say something racist, you can be charged.

Now, that's not to say it NEVER happens, because it does. Just like it does in the U.S. sometimes. But 'stories' about a lot of anti-Jewish behaviour or attitude are just simply not true.

Now, I've said this before and I will say it again, most Canadians are of like mind with LGFers in that they are definitely on the side of Israel in any fight and are against the Islamofascists. But when my government makes a decision over which I have no control (btw did you sign the petition asking the Canadian govt. to exempt MDA? I did.) then I have to admit that comments about Canadians being bastards or 'stories' which are apochryphal hurt my feelings as a Canadian, because I DON'T AGREE WITH THE DECISION EITHER but I don't want to be spit on or called names because the Court of Appeal ruled that the organization did not have their finances sorted out. It still has to go to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court isn't stupid. The Customs Dept. is GOING to ask for the exemption to be dropped because they want the money the taxes bring in. It's in their best interest to ask for the exemption to be dropped. But the Supreme Court knows that this is under discussion and that other organizations get the exemption AND that the world is watching.

My advice is if you really care, sign the petition. It was on a thread here last week or this past month.

And please, let's keep the name-calling to a minimum, the world is watching LGFers now too, thanks to Anil, and you don't want to blot your copy-book, just when you've earned your spurs.

TP above gives us an amusing combination of religious bigotry and ignorance.

The bigotry comes from his bizarre statements that US policy toward Israel is based on some Apocalyptic christian ideology. This is crap of the highest order. The holders of such fantasies have nothing to do with our foreign policy, now or before.

The ignorance comes from his silly statements about losing our freedoms. He obviously has not a single clue what he is talking about and accepts content-free scare propaganda whole. The insults and slanders about Ashcroft are of the same order of bigotry and ignorance.

Geeze, I take a few days off and I miss all sorts of stuff!

#42 Solomon X wrote:

"I'm trying to see things from the Canadian gvt's point of view, but I can't bend far enough to get get my head up my ass."

Hilarious - I'm no good at the advanced yoga either.

I think everyone on this thread who has expressed outrage over Canada Customs' decision has every right to feel the way they do. I'm appalled that agents of my government have singled out MDA for this sort of treatment while ignoring other organizations with questionable links. It's this kind of two-facedness that's making every Canadian look like a hypocrite.

Please accept my apologies. I didn't vote for the swine, but I have to take responsibility for them - they are my duly-elected representatives, after all.

I'd like to point out, however, that Canada is very big country with some profound differences between its regions, and it's as unfair to paint us all with the same brush as it would be for me to mock someone from Missouri because some dingbat in California had a bad idea ;-)

#101 also my understnding is that a lot of this was done by the courts. The U.S. courts make lousy decisions all the time and they are in a lot of ways unaccountable except for the appelate process. I certainly would not want to have my country judged by others because we have idiot judges. I do not know enough about how the Canadian judicial system works to make a judgment though. Are they elected? appointed? any of our neighbors to the north want to fill us in?

But the execution of the law in regards to terrorists groups is sorely lacking, which I assume is the prime ministers fault. In the U.S.A. it would be the president's fault.

One (1) Canadian Dollar (Loones) = .64 US Cents !!!

Say no more...

Superfly #104

Canadian judges at all levels are appointed by the relevant governing body, ie: provincial court judges are appointed by the provincial governments; federal and Supreme court judges are appointed by the federal government in Ottawa. On the whole it appears to be a meritocracy, but of course partisanship and favouritism play their parts as well. The really disturbing thing about the Supremes in Canada is their penchant for judge-created law through their, shall we say, overly-liberal interpretations of our Charter of rights and freedoms.

#80

alex ,

To be accurate, the Canadian government did not admit that it was wrong with the Ayn Rand newlsetters.

It seized them for "further inspection" by an "expert" who determined that they were not hate speach.

But, the real question is why in the hell were they seized in the first place?

Jeff:

Trying to figure out what makes Canada Customs tick is like trying to solve Rubik's cube: it's possible, but hardly likely (or worth the effort). I think that it just depends on how the individual Customs officer is feeling that day.

#105

Duddy

Cd$1 = US$0.64 = 64 cents (US)

Metric system is confusing. Maybe that's why our government is all screwed up ;)

Re #21...The reason is very obvious. The Canadian Government is dominated by French Quebecers and has been since the 1960"s. They are systematically Frenchifying this country, and we, the English speaking 76% majority are not only sitting by silently but we are also paying for it. Jean Cretien identifies more with the tyrants and despots of Africa, like Mugabe, than any democratic head of state.
He controls the senate, the judiciary, the ministers of state and the purse strings to the massive pork barrel he loves to slop around in and hand out to his french buddies.

Heck, in the US, Judges interpret the laws as they were passed by the Legislatures, unless they are liberal, then they bypass the checks and balances and make their own law.

Leftists don't deserve the freedom that they take away from their fellow citizens. Worse yet, their children will pay for their blind following of anyone in the Democratic Party, but they don't care, or are blind.

Look to Europe, their Emerald City, then to Canada, who's government is their wet dream, for the future of our country if they have their way. Europe is wallowing in an ecomomic quagmire that has lasted over 15 year. It couldn't be the extreme leftists who have taken over their government, could it? It couldn't be the lack of accountability of all people on all levels. Nah.

The EU was supposed to be chugging right along with a big head of steam by now, but no. Now it is that everything will be tuned when the other European Nations get themeselves with the program and join the club, and I forgot, when the USA does as they say. Um, yeah. I guess it depends on what their definition of "is" is.

It's funny how the same arguments were made by Communists years ago. They were always saying that Communism would work when the world was Communist. Yeah, right.

...i found another discgrace today...

Finland refuses to sell to Israel what are considered to be the best gas-detection kits in the world, despite widespread evaluations that Iraq may attack Israel with poison chemical weapons. The computerized kits accurately identify chemical warfare materials, but Finland claims that the European Union forbids the export of dual-use equipment to countries in conflict.

[Link: www.israelnationalnews.com...]

Jean Claude Connerie (to any non-Francophones out their, that last one -no relation to Sean Connery- loosely translates as "dickheadedness").

Doesn't con mean "****" in French?
Would it make it "****headedness", then? ;-)

Q--Do you make a study of this? ;-)

ploome--let's see what Erkki Tuominioja has to say when Finland is facing shariah law. What an evil asshole.

First Concordia University, then the confiscation of pro-Israel pamphlets as "hate literature", now this.

Anybody have a Canadian analog to "Cheese-eating surrender monkeys"?
It's a tough one, because Canadians as a people are so boring and undistinctive as to defy satire. The best I can come up with is "Molson-chugging Dudley Do-Wrongs"

I mean no disrespect to the many fine Canadian individuals who happen to be cursed with boneheaded neighbors and politicians.

Former Senator James Abourezk of South Dakota is the most rabid anti-semite to ever stalk the halls of the Senate. Senator Tom Daschle was a staffer for him back in the 1970's. On Nov. 13, he's giving a speech on the campus of the University of South Dakota entitled, in a transparently Gore Vidal tenor, "How to Gain Enemies and Antagonize Virtually Everyone." Abourezk will address US foreign policy towards the Middle East, terrorism, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. That means he's going to rail against the coming war on Iraq and America's support for Israel. I'm looking for suggestions on how to ambush this guy. Also, if possible, to get some sort of balancing figure there akin to Daniel Pipes. Please help me out.

Why is it everytime I take a break from this forum (to lower my blood pressure) and then sneak back in for a peak at what is going on, I find yet another example of the supreme cowardice and duplicity of our leftist government in power? Charles, do you have my number???

John #110 has hit the nail right on the head. Read his words and read them again. This is the reason why Canada is going down the toilet and why Canada panders to the worst despots in the world. Good show John.

To the Jewish people on this forum: I apologize profusely for the despicable behaviour of the Quislings in Ottawa. They are frightened little pantywaists who are under the mistaken impression that if they suck up to the Islamofascists, the latter will spare us. And there is also the inherent anti-semitism solidly ingrained in our Quebec masters who have been running the show in Ottawa since 1968. We can thank that anti-semitic peckerhead Trudeau for that. I piss on his grave.

To my American friends: I also offer my profuse apologies for the toxic and cowardly anti-Americanism that emanates from the toilet bowls of the Canadian liberal left.

When the Islamic hordes invade, maybe they'll get the message but it will be too late by then. Of course these hypocrites will beg the Amerians for help.

#117, Jason:
You used an imprudent and regrettable choice of words. Please be careful or you'll have the Secret Service all over the Johnson brothers. And then they'll be knocking at your door, too.

Thank you.

Before 9/11 law enforcement officials always

went before judges and asked to be approved to

look into a persons personal information and

tap their lines on a "Just cause for probable

cause." This is nothing new.

What Bush did was to hasten the process and

free it up from bureaucracy. As the time lapse

may jeopardize the investigation.

The notion of privacy in society that exist on

paper trails with every transaction is not

not realistic.

Crimminals that are working against the

good of the public should not have any

expectation of privacy. Every aspect of their

activities should be investigated and put before

a jury of their peers to be dispatched with

appropriately.

The ACLU has IMHO, are concerned with

protecting subversives.

Advocating their right to privacy at the expense

of protecting the right of lawabiding citizens

right to the freedom of a society free from

crimminal activities that are an economical

cancer.

The law abiding citizens rights and freedoms

have not been compromised in fact just the

opposite. When the crimminals are reigned in

by closer monitoring, it frees the society up to

concentrate it's energy to be freer in it's daily

activities.

Case in point. New York City. When Giuliani

curtailed the "freedoms" of prostitution to

proliferate in "family neighborhoods, crime went

down. Businesses flourished because people

were free to move about. He kicked out

organized crime. And a whole host of social ills

disappeared of the streets. Tourism soared

major companies came back to create jobs.

He accomplished this by creating a whole host

of laws that "curtailed" the freedom to conduct

crimminal activities.

Bottom line "He got in their face," by

investigating every aspect of their "private

lives."

We haven't lost any of our "privacy," or

"freedoms." But the illegals are going to. And

the subersives will.

Having said that though. Free citizens should

always keep an eye on their elected officials

to make sure that the peoples mandates are

adhered to.

VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE

mommydoc - I live in Finland and Tuomioja is appalling. He is an ivory tower intellectual who has never held a job outside of academia and politics. He is also the son of two prominent Communist intellectuals. Most Finns are decent, hardworking social democrats (think liberal Democrat)in a country where the media rarely departs from the party line. Tuomioja is a rabid jew-hating communist. He is a disgrace to his nation.

MC--I am truly sorry for you.

re #96:

It's just my opinion, I'm not a political scientist or an expert on the middle east, but if the world had buted out of the Israel/palestine conflict it would have been resolved decades ago.

Here's my logic. The palestinian terrorism is being funded by other countries (Iraq, Iran, S.A, arguably E.U) take away the funding and you take away the power of the terrorist groups. Take away the power of the terrorist groups and the majority of the terrorism should stop. (ie: the cops no longer have a reason to go along with it, no more incitement in schools, no money to the families of suicide bombers...) Once the terrorism stops the israeli retaliations should stop and you're left with two reasonably peacefull populations in close proximity. Innevitably the situation would work itself out through peacefull institutions like the courts and diplomacy.

Thus my statement: If the world had buted out of the Israel/palestine conflict it would have been resolved decades ago. They aren't the problem, the rest of the world is.

MC wrote:
I live in Finland and Tuomioja is appalling. He is an ivory tower intellectual who has never held a job outside of academia and politics. He is also the son of two prominent Communist intellectuals. Most Finns are decent, hardworking social democrats (think liberal Democrat)in a country where the media rarely departs from the party line. Tuomioja is a rabid jew-hating communist. He is a disgrace to his nation.

---

Bullshit. Don't invent excuses for you and your socialist antisemite country. I've been there. Toumioja is no more disgrace to your country than any average Finn. Good old allies of nazi Germany - don't think the world has forgotten... Neither have Finns but mention that to any Finn and like a well-programmed socialist he usually is he'll probably start spewing the old lies that you weren't really "allies" but "co-belligerents" or whatever and the jews you sent to death camps weren't really all that many and somehow you were on the right side in the war despite that. And somehow you did the right thing siding with the evil empire in cold war, too. Pathetic.

Your sickening little country has been the enemy of United States and Israel as long as it's existed and there sure aren't any signs of that changing. I've never seen so vitriolic anti-americanism and anti-semitism in any other country -- france included. Eurabia.

A quote from Haaretz news ticker:

Shin Bet confirms arrest of Lebanese-born Canadian explosives expert who helped Hamas, Jihad carry out attacks

#116

Stefan Sharkansky ,

A couple of days I ago summarized the same events, and wrote on another site that the Canadians were acting positively European. You should have seen the angry reations I got. :)

One point for Jan #124. Finland was allied to Nazi Germany during WW II only because it was the only way to keep from being conquered
by the Soviet Union. Remember the Soviets had tried to conquer Finland during the Winter of 1939/1940, the Winter War as it is called. The Finns fought gallanty arousing the world's
admiration, but in the end were forced to come to cede valuable territory to Stalin. When the Nazis invaded Russia in 1941, Finland fought on their side after it became clear that otherwise Stalin would take over Finland like he had the
Baltic Countries of Luthania, Latvaia and Estonia. I have never heard of Finland sending its Jewish population to Nazi Death Camps. What is your source for this statement , Jan?

Actually, Jan, the Finns were innitially allied with the allies when the Soviet Union (allied with Germany under the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact) invaded it . In his war memoirs, Churchill rights of his attempts to provide aid to the Finns in their battle to defend themselves against Soviet aggression. The Finns eventually had to accept harsh terms under which the Soviets annexed part of their country, and then after Operation Barbarossa sent the Red Army realing, they tried to regain their old borders and attacked the USSR. It was bad timing and somewhat cynical but not really a full alliance with Hitler.

Sorry about the misspellings in my previous post. I didn't stop to proofread.

Can someone post a link to the petition please!

Sorry David -- Finland was allied to nobody when the Soviets attacked it in 39. They sought for help (as was their right) and French and Brits were about to send troops but war ended before any got there. At that point they could have have been excused for allying even with nazis but not when Barbarossa began. The finns had made no attempt to approach the allies and went straight for the nazis and ATTACKED, attacked further than their own old borders.

And they may not have killed jews themselves but were happy to start delivering when nazis asked for their jews. (According to Finns the significant part with this is of course that they didn't deliver all their jews... yeah, what a great thing to be proud about, only sent some jews to be exterminated.)

Winter war is the only bright spot in the black history of a sorry little cowardly country that always found itself on the wrong side of history. Toumioja is just what you'd expect from a country that chose the nazis in WWII and Soviets in Cold War for friends and did it with democratic government. I could understand evil deeds forced upon people by tyrants but with Finland you see the will of the people choosing nazis and communists.