Allow me to quote myself.

Motherfuckers.

Yep, just another example of the religion of peace respecting other religions' holy sites.

I'm sure the Euroweenies will be happy, you know, because this wasn't a suicide bomb attack, so obviously they are making "progress"

transfer they shits out and burn the ground under their feet

At this point the Palistonians have proven incapable of coexistance.

Say it with be now:
Move 'em out, shove 'em out, waaay out.

The more you see sh*t like this the more that this comes across as a reasonable solution:

TROUBLE IN THE HOLY LAND
Radical new plan
for Mideast peace
Israeli movement builds for Arab population transfer
Posted: November 15, 2002
1:00 a.m. Eastern

[Link: www.worldnetdaily.com...]

2... 6... 9... 11...
Death tolls. I'm so damn sick of it!

Andrew Sullivan must be clairvoyant, because he had a link to this on his website this morning, before the attack. Note the dateline of the article.

-Rant on

send them back to their homeland in trans-jordan. Those that want to stay, and take part in a productive ISRAELI society, can feel free to. There is no "Palestine". There hasn't been since the Roman Empire. The "Occupied" terrortories were captured from JORDAN. Not Arafat. Arafat is EGYPTIAN! The whole thing is a fraud! Let's just get this over with. Faster please!

-Rant off

#6

I posted that on an earlier blog. I don't think it's radical. The arabs really don't know how damn lucky they are... that Israel hasn't smashed them by now.

I would tell them "move or die"!

Quible:
Shouldn't admitted be announced, or something along those lines. Islamic Jihad claims responsiblity of their own free will, not because they are being interrogated. Certainly, they are proud of what they're done, not ashamed.
And yes, they are fuckers for shooting civilans.

#8
satire and tragedy?

"All the different peoples of the world have something special to offer each other," he said. "Our diversity is our greatest strength. Let's not make a weakness out of that strength."

To emphasize his point, al Hamad fired into a crowd, killing nine.

"I'm proud to be a crazed Palestinian gunman, obviously," he said in between shouts of anti-imperialist slogans. "But I'm an individual first. I'm me. Die, Yankee infidel pig swine!"

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

Palestinians, an entire nationality of war criminals.

So to turn our angst into more thoughtful considerations... can anyone suggest a plan for separation? Dealing with the specifics of house to house evictions and peaceful or violent resistance?

David:

This is a proper use of the term "admission" in the legal sense. An admission does not have to be product of an intterrogation, rather an admission for the purposes of criminal liablility is a statement made by a party against one's interest. This fits the bill. (Boasting about one's crime to obtain prestige is still an admission against interest).

And Patten refuses to investigate where the aid goes? I am beyond disgusted, its a good thing I don't have anything dangerous in my hands at the moment.

Would this have happened if curfews had not been lifted?

One wonder, faced with the wanton targeting and slaughter of Israeli civilians, how long it will be before the IDF begins laying waste to the Palestinian civilian population. The only thing that holds the Israelis back is their own history and current world opinion.

It wouldn't restrain me. I wish Ariel would fire up the tanks and level everything west of the Israeli settlements and keep going until he hears someone speaking Urdu.

#12...omg!

DAMN, he admitted to be a "crazed Palestinian gunman". Is this piece of shit still alive?

Jeez, how depressing.

Perhaps transfer will get on the agenda for the upcoming election. A consortium of right wing parties is planning to put the issue on their platform.

They may pull the next governent in that direction, a bit . . .

One can only hope that is the conclusion they arrive at themselves. They're the one's on the ground, and it's the Israelis who dragged arafat up by his hair as an interlocutor after he was written off . . . and entered into the Oslo fiasco.

I guess I'm saying they got themsleves into this mess, and they have to have the guts and feel the moral authority to get themselves out in the best possible manner.

Ummm, patriot, hate to break it to you buddy, but The Onion is a satirical "news" site. The article's a joke, albeit a funny and pointed one.

Sheesh, do you work for the Chinese media?

yeah Doug, I just found that out.

as I blush...

Its called The Onion. Learn it, love it

Er, my post above was to #19...

At the very least , transfer all the arabs out of Hebron. For the time being send them to jenin. They would feel right at home in suicide city

Doug, I actually read only the first several sentences before I posted. When I went back to read the remaining story I felt like a hooked catfish; reeled me in alright...Oh well!

Patriot:
The only reason I mention the Chinese media is that they've been duped by The Onion before...

Doug, ah sooo --- me tooo!

#25 thx MikeC, think I''ll pass the Onion!

Let's get this straight: If we bomb Muslims during Ramadan, we're insensitive bastards who have no respect for another's religion. If they bomb, and otherwise murder people who are practicing their religion, they are...?

Send them to hell.

Dee

Apparently; these wicked subhuman beasts have no soul. Being a muslim should be punished by death.

To rendel. the seperation is accomplished like this. Rammalah, Mecca and the other shit holes are leveled to the ground; painfully killing every subhuman beasty inside. Then we hunt out in Deerborn and other satanic haunts these wicked ... things, and send them to allah.
Remember for them it is good, for muslims love death more than life.
Islam is death.

I just heard an interview today of Alan Dershowitz who said the way to deal with terrorism is to make the terrorists worse off. Make them loose something they value besides the lives of their kids that they don't value. He suggested house demolitions along the green line and the annexation of the cleared land. The more terror, the more annexation. I am pleased to say that I expressed the same view on these threads only last week.

Sounds like a plan.

I HATE sounding this bloodthirsty, BUT . . . isn't it about time for Ariel Sharon to announce, on the radio, something to the following effect:

"Notice to all members of the PLO, al Fatah, Hamas, Hizbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc., etc. We are sick and tired of innocent Israeli civilians dying at your evil hands. Effective as of noon today, for every Israeli civilian killed by terrorist action, we will arrest, at random, 100 Palestinians and execute them. If terrorist activity continues after 10 days of this policy, we will increase the number to 200 Palestinians. Another 10 days; we'll make it 500. And we will continue this until the terror STOPS, or until we run out of Palestinians, whichever comes first. Thank you and good night."

Here is how the Iran News Wire ran the story:

At least ten Israeli soldiers and settlers were killed and more than thirty others injured on Friday evening when brave Palestinian resistance fighters attacked a convoy of racist-Zionist settlers and soldiers in the heart of al-Khalil.

IRNA headline

A bit OT but about the worlds most famous puppet

[Link: www.freep.com...]

In a speech at the University of Maryland, Annan also accused the Israeli government of imposing "condition upon condition" to block peace negotiations.

I have this to say to Mr. Annan. Israel has made only one condition for peace with its Arab neighbors. -- PEACE

I veto the UN and ask for a world body consisting of polar bears (excluding the famous Coca Cola polar bears, may offend Mecca Cola drinkers). They are more likely to see a threat and take action than our UNers.

Bibi as opposed to Sharon now stands for
1. expulsion of Arafat
2. No Palestinian State
3. transfer of terrorists
4. ending terror rather than keeping it at tolerable levels.

Too bad he is behind in the polls considering that the majority of Likudniks favour these policies.

ISLAM MEANS PEACE

to other muslims

Please don't paint all of Islam with the terrorist brush. It is unfair and smacks of the beliefs that have caused this mess in the first place. I don't want ALL Muslims dead. I just want those who murder, or incite murder, to be dead. Never lose sight of justice.

And justice demands that those who commit unprovoked physical force be taken out. If their citizens cannot abide by the rules of civilized behavior, send them some place where they can no longer do harm to innocent people. Send them to the only Palestinian country there is: Jordan. Transfer the murderers to hell.

Dee

Makes me sick to my stomach.

To all out there who wants an easy to use history guide to show of to their friends or skeptics of any kind, check this out. I found it on honestreporting.com

M.E. History

One more thing. What a bunch of assholes.

Here's my plan for Transfer(tm).

Surrond Gaza with heavy artillery. Use loudspeakers and leaflets dropped from planes to inform the residents that they have 7 days to retreat into Egypt or die. If anyone tries to flee anywhere other than across the Egyptian border, kill them. At the end of 7 days lay down a rolling barrage of artillery until there's nothing left. Go in and mop up on the ground if anything is still living.

Then do the same in Judea, but give them the option to flee to Jordan instead of Egypt.

Then do the same in Samaria, but them the option to flee to Jordan instead of Egypt.

Egypt & Jordan won't be eager to let refugees in, but if they can't find sympathy for their Paleo "brothers" then there will be no choice but to helpfully assist in the Paleo dream of becoming "martyrs". Better a dead martyr than a live killer!

I can't imagine how long Americans would put up with this shit if, say, Mexican terrorists were blowing up people over the brutal U.S. occupation of the Southwest.

If the military or the politicians couldn't stop it, the citizens themselves would rise up in one pissed-off mass to form militias that wouldn't stop until Mexico City--world opinion be dammed.

I wonder how long before Israeli citizens have enough too. The world should consider 200,000+ angry, fed-up Jews charging across the West Bank and Gaza with metaphorical torches and pitchforks. The results would not be pretty for the Palestidiots.

Several Jewish Settlers Killed in Attack on Hebron

So goes the AP headline. They even state 10 is the number killed.

Is 10 equivalent to several?

And why are Isaelis living in Hebron settlers?

They are returness, returing after the arabs massacres earlier in the century that wiped out the jewishpresence in what was the ancient Jewish city of Shechem.

Furthermore, they were killed while praying at the Tomb of the JEWISH Partriarchs (who the arabs have aslo coopted, in their plagiarized religion, as 'their' patriarchs.

Arab bastards I can understand, and they'll get theirs, eventually.

But what about AP and Reuters?

This from DEBKAfile

"Last month, Israeli forces withdrew from Hebron under ex-defense minister Ben Eliezer`s plan to hand over security to Palestinians"

And on the flip side...

Muslim worship

Brings to mind a small thought..

When is a declaration of war a declaration of war?

When does enough become enough?

wow, there's some pretty sick stuff in this thread*

Palestinians, an entire nationality of war criminals.

Being a muslim should be punished by death.

transfer they (sic) shits out and burn the ground under their feet

i hate to say it, and this will provoke a nasty response, but sometimes lgf feels like it is more extremist than palestinian society (both taken as an average). sure, there are no suicide bombers here, so the very extreme is obviously not comparable, but still, there's a lot of very unpleasant and extreme stuff being said.

Jason Roth (#39) This one's even pithier.

Dee--of course, you're right, but how do you tell the difference?

Declare war now!

While I naturally don't agree with 'kill all muslims commnets (and I'll bet even the posters of those comments don't agree with theri own posts), it does seem as if we have a preponderance of posters here who feel transfer is a realistic solution. While this has no bearing on what will happen, it is interesting in the sense that for every North American turned to this concept, I would think at least a few Israelis turn as well . . .

They are returness, returing after the arabs massacres earlier in the century that wiped out the jewish presence in what was the ancient Jewish city of Shechem.

Uh, Michael - Hebron is actually the biblical city of Hebron. (Where the Arab massacres of Jews took place).

It's Nablus that is the biblical city of Schechem.

Re: #42

Er, Shechem was what's now called "Nablus". Hebron (Hevron) has always been Hebron.

Beat me to it, BigBad.

#42 Maine's Michael—

Hebron is Hebron. As the article notes, Kiryat Arba is nearby.

Shechem is the Hebrew name of Nablus.

Nitpicks aside, the question of why Hebron, or Shechem, is considered to be Arab land is a good one. yesterday on the subject. How come Kofi Annan never complains about all of the Arab land that the Spaniards are occupying?

Transfer them about 6 feet under ground. Well, not all Palestinians, just the Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Fatah, Tanzim, Al Aksa MB, PA, PFLP, and PLO murdering scum. The remaining six peaceful palestinians should be spared.

#41 Shaffman -

www.aztlan.org

They're Here!!!

Whoops . . . brain fart . . .

Points still stand, though!

#45 david,

wow, there's some pretty sick stuff in this thread*

Palestinians, an entire nationality of war criminals.

You're right.
Describing them as a "nationality" or a nation...is sick.
They are just a bunch of murdering thugs!

The other two comments are just ugly.

The latest from Israel TV, channel one:

12 dead; 15 wounded. Several gunmen ambushed worshippers returning from Friday evening services at the Cave of the Patriarchs Synagogue, opening fire on them. When the army, police and ambulance crews (Magen David Adom) reached the scene to rescue the worshippers, they were caught in a second ambush, and hit with gunfire and hand grenades. Most of the casulaties were from the second ambush.

I was out walking my dog when I heard the sounds of ambulances and helicopters, always an unnerving sound in Jerusalem. Turns out it was the wounded being flown and driven in to Hadassah Hospital.

wow, there's some pretty sick stuff in this thread*

David,

Please try to understand the root cause of the comments you took note of. Those posters are victims of palestinian aggression. Their pain and suffering has caused them to lash out in self defense. They are powerless and humiliated. Those words they wrote are the AK-47s and M-16s of their struggle as they have no other means of defense.

(Jeez, I could be a talking head on TV and get huge speaking fees at American and Canadian institutes of higher education.)

#42

Shechem became Neapolis, then Nablus.

Hebron is the ancient Jewish city of Chevron/Hevron.

Genesis 13:14 The LORD said to Avram, after Lot was separated from him, "Now, lift up your eyes, and look from the place where you are, northward and southward and eastward and westward,

13:15 for all the land which you see, I will give to you, and to your offspring forever.

13:16 I will make your offspring as the dust of the earth, so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then your seed may also be numbered.

13:17Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it to you."

13:18Avram moved his tent, and came and lived by the oaks of Mamre, which are in Chevron, and built an altar there to the LORD.

Hebron was a Jewish city before Mohammed was a twinkle in his daddy's eye.

Hebron is Hebron

The Arabs call Hebron "al Halil", as they call Jerusalem "al Quds", and Shechem "Nablus". However they retain the Biblical name for Gaza ("Azza") one of the five Philistine cities.

Northern West Bank Palestinians have been known to look down on Hebron Palestinians, after whom they coined the phrase "Ras al-Halili" (literally: Hebron headed), which loosely translates as "thicker than ten short posts".

CNN says:

Among the dead was the commander of the Division of Judea Brigade, the highest-ranking official in the area, the consulate said.

I am seriously disgusted.

And more

Palestinians in Gaza Celebrate Hebron Attack

Dead Jews in Judea or Samaria means party time in Gaza

In the Shati refugee camp in the Gaza Strip, dozens of Islamic Jihad supporters celebrated the news Friday of the Hebron attack that killed 12 Israelis and wounded 13.

The supporters rushed into the streets in celebration, some firing in the air.

Beat me to it X man.

According to Yahoo, neither side has clean hands in Hebron:

"Relations with Palestinians, rarely friendly, deteriorated sharply in 1994, when Baruch Goldstein, a New York-born settler who lived in Kiryat Arba, gunned down 29 Muslim worshippers inside the mosque at the Tomb of the Patriarchs. He was beaten to death by the survivors. "

[Link: story.news.yahoo.com...]

I wonder what the Army thinks about this:

"the Israeli army patrols the center of the city, where about 450 Jewish settlers live in three enclaves, surrounded by 130,000 Palestinians."

Seems like a bad use of Army resources to make a political statement.

I think we should organize parties for when the pal terrorists get killed.

I just don't understand - what has to happen before they will stop trying to keep the peace process going by pulling back troops thus endangering more Jewish lives?

This is madness. Minister Ben-Eliezer - these people's blood is on your hands.

#58...that was awesome...we need you to stick around after the next Queda attack to justify the US civilian retaliation. Let those lefties choke on their words.

Transfer. Is. Not. An. Option.

First, the strategic reasons:

Israel's ability to deal with palestinian terrorists is at a maximum when those terrorists are living in it's own territory -
- We can get in & out without much of a fuss because we occupy those territories.
- We can bombard mortar workshops from the air
- We can assasinate terror leaders who are hiding among civillian population by helicopter air-strikes.
- We have a HUGE network of palestinian informers who don't like what the terror thugs are doing [to palestinian population of course - they are a Mafia that collects protection fees.]

If palestinians live elsewhere, it will be a big problem because the US would'nt let us invade an arab country and would turn against us.
Remember what happened in Lebanon?
Sharon will not do such a thing again. EVER. Every time he sneezes, he notifies the White house in advance.
And don't get me started about that big mouth Netanyahu.

Once again I will say that the Israeli public will NEVER accept transfer or mass-murder as viable options.
The vast majority of us would rather die than do such a thing, and here's a precious lesson in case you ever wondered how the holocaust happened. Jews wish to claim a higher moral ground, to an obsessive suicidal extent, that has cost our nation rivers of blood and will continue to do so until the end of the world.

The REAL problem is, because of political correctness,
we don't target the most important enemy - the ISLAMIST CLERICS.
They should be killed by targeted assasinations,
that'll keep their mouths SHUT and stop the incitement and indoctrination of future generations.

Furthermore, terror personalities should be targeted outside of Israel, even if that means in broad daylight in Europe [just like the good old days] or in the arab countries.
Canada comes to mind as an excellent place to start.
F**K THEM if they have a problem with it,
What are they going to do? throw tea cakes at me?
[No! not Celine Dion! Nooo]

Re: Parties to Celebrate Death of Arab Murderers

I remember when Nasser died (I'm dating myself). We were all subdued. No celebrations at all.

My attitude's changed. When Arafish or Bin Laden buy it, I'm going to publicly celebrate and buy drinks all around!

Gil, The Israeli Guy's commentary about the attack

11 people dead, one of them is an IDF colonel - this is going to generate a very harsh Israeli response. About a month ago the IDF pulled from most parts of Hebron after the city was quiet for a while. I guess the Palestinians in Hebron didn’t like having a normal life again and they wanted the IDF to put his boot on their throats again. Stupid stupid people! They are going to pay dearly for this vile attack.

Also read the joke below the linked post. I won't give it away so you are forced to visit Gil's excellent blog.

A levity in times like this go a long way.

#69 nomad-
I had that thought earlier, the freakin' imams and mullahs and what-the-shits that spout the incendiary Islamist line should be assassinated.

How the h-ll do you reform a religion that is stuck in the 1500's (or earlier) and deathy afraid of change? It is not an easy answer but I will venture this- if the "moderate" muslims do not find a way, AND DAMNED SOON, the West will do it for them. And no one will be all that pleased about the aftermath.

69 nomad33

good post, thank you for that. I agree whole-heartedly that targeted assasinations (... the most important enemy..) is extremely necessary. This is just as true for America's "war on terrorism". ...which in my opinion we will lose unless we get mean & serious.

J Lichty

thx for lhe link to Gil's blog

Nomad I agree with your conclusions, but I differ with you on the strategic advantages.

Your strategic analysis is premised upon the assumption that Israel remains in control of these territories. Your PM and my President are committed to the inevitability of a Palestinian state. Thus the problems you identify with Lebanon will be present in Yesha.

Even worse than Lebanon however is that the new "Palestine" will become the darling of the world. Better not touch a pretty little hair on its pretty little developing head. Lebabon was a Syria (Soviet) Dumping ground which drew attention because it was Israel invading, but not nearly as much as an invasion of the world's favorite new Jew-killing sovereign.

Therefore, transfer must occur before it is too late and you have a hostile state as a neighbor rather than a hostile "occupied" populace.

America and the West are weak, divided, and morally ambivalent towards Israel, a free and just nation with an impeccable record, as a people as well as a state. (I am not Jewish).

Being confused and unsure of consequences and uncertain about largely imagined backlashes and unwarranted concerns for muslim sensibilities, the West opts for talks and peace processes, believing that a status-quo of ghastly proportions is preferable to a departure from "established" norms and perceptions. Peace process; what a whitewash word. It must be done away with as a theoretical term as it has been unproven in practice.

Adversity to political risk and paying heed to political correctness, as well as thinking about up-coming elections, the West contributes to the perpetuation of random murder in Israel, while the EU overtly sponsors Mid East Murder Inc. as if it was just another Euro soccer team.

Awarding equal value to Arab and muslim positions and demands, is an insult to reason and morality and against everything we stand for in our own society.

On the same premises, should we be obliged to engage in TALKS with Al-Quaeda? That would be a further modern-day moral equivalence. I hope the UN doesn't get on to that.

In the pursuit of "peaceful" co-existence and "a lasting political solution", both "fatamorganas" of historic magnitude the Israelis are being murdered en masse while the Left-media harps on about moral equivalence. As a consequence millions of people are buying that lie, a lie that has now become so widespread and common that it has mutated into a higher and more worthy truth.

This murder abomination can be stopped in days. But America and Europe, for different reasons, are currently making this impossible on the Israelis. While the entire islamic nether world is egging the Neo-Nazis of Arabia on, promising Dollars and Martyrdom in unison, another cultural contradiction of pathetic qualities, the West is holding Israel back while it is being stabbed in the back by savages. Again and again.

News Update: the IDF has dispatched 2 of the pigs

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

No more. Waste them. Waste every last palo town, village and supporter. Call it jihad II. Doesn't matter. If france or another g-d damned eruo weanie complains of INTOLERANCE!!! Lay waste to them as well. When its a smoking, glowing ruin, then extend an offer of "peace." Enough. Faster is not soon enough.

For those who have the time, this is a fabulous article which declars that the war on terror is a phony war. It must be read.

[Link: www.meforum.org...]

#78

Ted B.

Thanks for the link.

An outstanding article. Excellent. Not a word wasted.

Related:

INS Grants US Citizenship to Hezbollah Terrorist

Or, in nonsensical Associated Press headline-speak, "INS Places Employees on Leave"

INS Places Employees on Leave
By Associated Press

November 14, 2002, 7:56 PM EST

NEW YORK -- The Immigration and Naturalization Service said Thursday that several employees have been placed on leave, reportedly as part of an investigation into how a man suspected of ties to a terrorist group was granted citizenship.

The man was under scrutiny by the FBI-New York Police Department Joint Terrorist Task Force because of suspected ties to the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah, The New York Times reported Thursday.

The unidentified man became a citizen last month and the INS has since placed five employees on administrative leave, according to the newspaper, which cited interviews with law enforcement and agency officials who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Nancy Cohen, a spokeswoman for the INS in Washington, confirmed an agency review involves INS offices in New York and Newark, N.J., and that several employees have been placed on paid leave.

She declined further comment.

[Link: www.newsday.com...]

(five straight minutes of swearing)... and your dog too.

This is sick beyond belief, it has been for too too long. The little maggots are dancing in the streets too. Those of you that were thinking of reciprocating were probably just venting, but don't give it another thought. You'd hate yourself for it. You can feel pride and joy about victory, but not the actual death. It is a fine line, but one worth knowing.

Part of these attacks are the "cease-fire negotiations" going on with the P(LO)A factions. Every time peace talks get underway anywhere, attacks increase. Go figure. Another part is Iraq. Yes, every time Saddam feels pressure the bastard cranks up a diversion written in Jewish blood. This time he knows Israel is hamstrung while the US slouches towards Baghdad. The sooner he eats Hellfire (or JDAM or FAE) the better the world (esp. Israel) will be. The third are the cynical bastards in the EU. They pressured Arafat to reduce suicide bombings. He did, just switched to bullets, and they are fine with it. Link to prove me wrong, please.

OK, this is more realistic, and workable IMHO. Israeli officials and notables speak EVERYWHERE there is a camera, from the UN to Washington to Brussels to Larry King to Jerry Springer. Bring slides and films. Tell, do not ask, everyone that this ends now. The P(LO)A will be disarmed. City-by-city sweeps start at our discretion, on our time-table. These will be rubber-glove spread-yer-cheeks searches. Any person found with a weapon goes to jail. Any building or vehicle found with weapons will be destroyed. Any country that wishes to oppose this is welcome to show up and wage war against Israel, their people are dying anyway.

Well, FoxNews is showing video of the bastards (excuse me, moderate innocent Muslims) dancing in the streets to celebrate the massacre. The coverage is good. If that isn't encouraging terror, tell me what is. There may be stronger ways to do it, but it is still encouragement.

Today at work their web headline was "11 Israelis killed by gunmen", the headline to a sub-story was "IDF arrest 17 Palestinian militants". Interesting contrast between the two peoples and their methods and values.

If I heard right, Barak will be on Hannity & Colmes tonight. Will love to hear Colmes' resurect his tired rhetoric about military crackdowns inspiring terrorism, as it has been proven false so many times. Like today.

It's about time to say what has to be said. There is indeed room enough for two different peoples in what was mandatory Palestine. There's even room for two countries: a Jewish and an Arab one living side by side. The Jews and only the Jews should keep approximately 1/5 of it and the Arabs, both Muslim and Christian, the rest. The country of the Jews is Israel. The Arabs' country is what is known as Jordan. There's a river between them and that is very good. The Arabs don't want to live together with the Jews, nor do they want to be good neighbors? Fine. It's time for them to move to another neighborhood, to go home: to Jordan. All of them. It's in their own best interest. ARABS GO HOME!!!

#67   BigBad  
“. . . I just don't understand - what has to happen before they will stop trying to keep the peace process going by pulling back troops thus endangering more Jewish lives?. . .”

The first thing that has to happen is for the settlements to be dismantled—period. Many Israelis seem to understand and want this as well. As long as the radical Islamists want to “push the Zionists into the sea” and the radical Israelis want to “deport the Palis” there will be no peace! Let us be honest and recognize that the world is war weary. Neither side is seen as having a just cause anylonger. Nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong—as the song goes.

IMHO, both the Palestinians and the Israelis have a historical right to live in the region. How many people must die before all admit that this is the truth? I suspect many, many more. . .

#70   Lee  “My attitude's changed. When Arafish or Bin Laden buy it, I'm going to publicly celebrate and buy drinks all around!”

That will be Champagne time for me as well.

Targeted arrests and/or assassinations of the leaders, on a massive scale, is what is needed as well. Without those, the illiterate drones are just that—gofers who could not think their way out of a paper bag.

The heart of the matter is the clerics, as has already been mentioned. Those are the people who need to be targeted— not with assassinations, but by the world media. Every time one of them opens their bigoted, hate mongering mouths what they say should be broadcast and printed world wide! And whatever country is sponsoring those clerics should be blasted in the media—be it the Saudis, the Egyptians, the Syrians, the Yemenis, etc. EVERYTIME!!!

How does one “undo” multiple generations of hate teaching in formal atmospheres such as the madrassas? I don’t think it is possible! There will never be democracy as we know it in radical Muslim nations, specifically Arab nations, unless there is a real reformation in Islam. A reformation that we shall not see in our life times.

”. . .America became fully contemptible when the Bush team recoiled from the Arab world's brandishing of the ultimate terror weapon, suicide bombing. Count on it: the next stage of the war will feature suicide bombings on American streets. . . .”

When that happens, and I would be willing to bet it will, you will see a turn in the psyche of the American public that will make your blood run cold.

The paleos declared war on Israel clearly and convincingly two years ago. They can call it an intifadeh, or an uprising, or a debutante reception--the words don't matter. It's a war, and the paleos made the rules. They use any and all classification of what would be, in any civilized country, civilians as combatants. Children who through rocks and explosive or incendiary devices at soldiers are combatants; teenage boys and girls who blow themselves up in order to kill Israeli civilians are combatants.

The paleos hide behind subterfuge, semantics, and the western world's morality, which they do not share as a basic value but use as a weapon against us. Enough is enough. It is time for the Israelis to cast off restraint forced on them by the rest of the self-serving and, yes, antisemitic world, and fight back. It has become an "us or them" situation because the paleos have made it so.

The only reason I could see to wait before unleashing everything they have is so that we can take out Iraq first. If we don't, there is a real chance that Iraq could unleash the WMD that we know they have on Israel. And maybe, ultimately, that's behind Bush's push to take out Iraq.

Much, much, much faster, please. In the meantime, I'm learning Hebrew. If they need me and I can be useful, I'm going.

#84

”. . .America became fully contemptible when the Bush team recoiled from the Arab world's brandishing of the ultimate terror weapon, suicide bombing. Count on it: the next stage of the war will feature suicide bombings on American streets. . . .”

The Second Amendment is getting more precious every day.

This is coming from an ex-liberal (and soon to be ex-)Democrat voter.

JG

RE - #84 Freebourne, Secularia

As long as the radical Islamists want to “push the Zionists into the sea” and the radical Israelis want to “deport the Palis” there will be no peace!

Pardon my french, plain bullshit.

Please read my previous comment (#69).

The "radical Israelies" that you speak of exist mostly in your imagination.
Israelies [and probably jews in general] are leftist liberals [no, that does not make me very proud] and would pretty much give up any territory, if they had a trustworthy partner. Hell, we did it when we didn't have a partner.

I could go on and on and talk about the false "two sides" mantra but I'm too tired and too sad to comment any further.

[FTISN] URGENT: PALESTINAINS MURDER 10 in HEBRON. URGENT RALLY SUNDAY

ALERT:

Palestinian gunmen fired at Jewish settlers on their way to Sabbath eve prayers in the West Bank city of Hebron on Friday, killing at least 10 people and wounding 15 others.

STAND WITH US ON SUNDAY MORNING AT 9:45 AM
IN FRONT OF THE PLO MISSION AT 65TH STREET & PARK AVENUE

- THE MURDER NEEDS TO STOP -

WE WILL JOIN TOGETHER TO RAISE OUR VOICES FOR OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN ISRAEL.

FOR MORE INFORMATION CALL:
1-888-48 AMCHA

After Shabbas, please call your friends to go to this, bad weather nonwithstanding

[Link: groups.yahoo.com...]

A group of us in the NY Five Towns area have started a grass-roots organization to promote Israel activism. We have run a few workshops in the past, and decided
to expand on the ideas previously discussed at our earlier meetings. With the current events as they are, we feel we have to do something and wake up from our relative silence.

God fucking damn it, whoever posted #30, where do you get off posting such hateful crap under my handle? That WAS NOT me, the real Infidel.

#65

Baruch Goldstein should never be justified. Anyone who can mow down people at prayer deserves death and contempt.

But there is background for what happened. People in the West never heard it. I lived in Israel that year. The night before Goldstein had committed his massacre, the Jews were celebrating the festival of Purim. Use of the Cave of the Patriarchs was Jewish that night for the festival. While the Jews were celebrating the events of the Book of Esther where the Jews were victorious over another villian who wanted to kill them, the Muslims/Arabs outside were broadcasting on a public address system accross the street "Death to the Jews, Death to the Jews!" The antagonism and verbal abuse continued all night. Finally, the next morning, Goldstein snapped and went on his rampage. Did the Israelis dance in the streets? Did they go seeking more Muslims to kill? No, they went- including the president of the country- and offered their condolences. They formed an inquiry, shut down the followers of Kahane who did celebrate the massacre, and paid restitution to the victims families. How different can two peoples reactions be to horror?

GI JOE: Good luck to you. Wish I were there. In my opinion if you get any media coverage, the most important thing you can do is this:

Ask the world why the PA won't denounce and call for the expulsion of Fatah, IJ, HAMAS, Al Aqsa. The international community is quite capable of doing this if they ask for a hand.

I've never seen this, nor had anyone explain to me why this wouldn't be a near-fatal PR blow. Yeah, the "stop murdering Jews" message is important, but everyone knows it. Nail it home that there is no "cycle of violence" or "partner for peace" so that even idiots, appeasers and conspirators can't avoid the logic.

Errr, don't get me wrong though, every show of support is crucial now, just being there is surely a blessing for Israel. God Bless you guys!

johnnybgood (#90)

Don't worry about J. Wilkes. He breezes in, leaves a snide remark, and breezes out again. I'm just surprised he didn't have something nasty to say about LGF. He generally likes to get a zig in when he can.

He's a troll. A subtle one perhaps, but just a troll.

I can't post because Charles has blocked me out. Apparently, I need to advocating nuking somone.

Well, lookie, lookie, I can post again. They must be good snide remarks if you can remember them.

J. Wilkes,

You're a such a smart ass. You should be banned you horrible little troll. And your posts aren't interesting, so get over yourself. What I do remember is what an asshole you are. Piss off.

J. Wilkes (#65):

""the Israeli army patrols the center of the city, where about 450 Jewish settlers live in three enclaves, surrounded by 130,000 Palestinians."

Seems like a bad use of Army resources to make a political statement.

First, there was an ancient Jewish community in Hebron which made up a significant - though minority- population of the city. These were anti-Zionist orthodox Jews who had refused to allow the Zionist militia, the Hagana, to send armed guards to Hebron to defend them. Instead they placed their trust in their Arab neighbors. Then, one Sabbath day in August,1929 the Arabs of Hebron decided to have a pogrom and massacre their Jewish neighbors. About 60 Jews were killed. Arab prisoners buried them in a mass grave and then celebrated by breaking out in singing and dancing. The surviving Jews left Hebron that week, so the Arabs got their wish of a Judenrein city. Which it was until Kiryat Arba, next to Hebron, was established in 1969. Absent the massacre, the figures you cite would be different.

As to your second point, almost everybody agrees that the IDF deployment to protect Jewish settlers in Hebron is not justifiable on strictly military grounds. But our military takes its orders from the elected civilian government which has decided to leave the settlers in place and have the army protect them.

Last point, you should have the decency to pick a call sign which is not based on the name of the assassin of an American president.

Uzi,

You're wasting your time. J. Wilkes doesn't debate. He just lurks like the cowardly troll that he is. He's not even worth the effort (now watch him come crawling out of his hole).

Am I getting to you J. Wilkes? How long do you think you can resist for? Come on, come on out.

Uzi,

Umm, that would be John Wilkes Booth. John Wilkes was a famous English agitator who was persecuted by the King of England for his pamphlets that championed liberty and anti-royal sentiments. He was a favorite of the American revolutionaries for his willingness to challenge the English orthodoxy and the monarchy.

[Link: www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk...]

There's my history lesson in return.

The Arabs are trying desperatately to become the 21st century Nazis. They want to eliminate the Jews, period. It's not the "settlements" — Hebron was a Jewish city from time immemorial, and the remnants of the ancient Jewish citizens were slaughtered and expelled in 1929 by the Arabs, of course. Yesterday, the Arabs tried to do it again.

source (Yourish)

#85

great post, should be published for all to read!

"In the meantime, I'm learning Hebrew. If they need me and I can be useful, I'm going".

Bless you mommydoc! My wife & I are doing / planning the same!

Kind of a late update, but ha'aretz is saying that none of the killed/injured in the attack were actually worhipping settlers. All were security forces of various sorts (army, border police, and the settlement's own security team).

Changes the event quite a bit from a moral perspective.

The news reporters keep saying the Tomb of the Patriarchs is "holy to Jews and Muslims" Some of them even switch the seniority and say "holy to Muslims and Jews".

Can somebody please explain why the tomb of Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebecca and Jacob and Leah is holy to Muslims? Don't they even have any ancestors of their own, that they have to filch ours?

But the Magen Daavid Adom should not have sent in ambulances. Don't they know that the government of Canada does not allow that kind of misuse of medical care?

J. Wilkes (#98):

There's my history lesson in return.

Touche' on point three. Still waiting for your rebuttals on points one and two.

#102: Can somebody please explain why the tomb of Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebecca and Jacob and Leah is holy to Muslims? Don't they even have any ancestors of their own, that they have to filch ours?

They consider themselves decendents of abraham through ishmael (Isaac's brother). Which is why Islam is considered one of the three abrahamic faiths (along with christianity and judaism).

david (#101)

Changes the event quite a bit from a moral perspective.

Why? This is still terrorism. They were ambushed, there were civilians amongst them, the murderers were not soldiers.

Just in case anyone forgets, soldiers, policemen, etc., are human. And remember that most of the Israelis were, are, or will be, soldiers.

Bystander Arik Mariner, who tried to help rescue the wounded, said soldiers were pinned down by massive amounts of gunfire from all directions.

"It took a long time (to evacuate the wounded)," Mariner told Israel's Channel Two television. "The wounded were screaming, `save us' and I saw things — I don't want to shock people — soldiers without hands, without legs, things that break the heart."

What the hell? with this:

Muslims here are among the most devout and the Jewish settlers among the most radical, and there are daily provocations.

The Muslims are devout, and the Jews are just radicals? They were walking back from Shul!

Jews had lived there for centuries alongside Arabs until a spasm of rage swept the city in 1929. Arabs rioted, killed dozens of Jews with guns and axes and drove the others out, destroying the city's ancient Jewish quarter.

I was hoping I'd wake up feeling better today. I don't.

I feel for the soldier's and their families too, zulubaby, but you have to admit there is a world of difference between attacking armed soldiers and civilians. I don't by any stretch agree with the palestinian rebellion, but they have a right to rebel, just as the israelis have a right to put down the rebellion. It is only were civilians begin to get targeted that there is anything truly disgusting. Like it or not, fighting between armed combatants is fair play.

david,

Until such time that the Palestinians have a formal army, whereby the "combatants" can be identified as soldiers by their uniforms, the "armed combatants" are terrorists. The soldiers were walking the worshippers back from Shul on Shabbat. There were civilians there. Now can we call it terrorism? I know they're only the lowly "settlers", but they're civilians too, and they did not deserve this.

And who's to say that they were specifically targeting the soldiers, as long as they were Jews? I'm sure they couldn't have cared less about whether they were killing civilians or soldiers. And then their brethren took it to the streets and par-tee'd until the wee hours. What fun!

Not exactly "rebellion".

I apologize. I forgot to include the link in #105. Here it is.

Israel Retakes Hebron After Ambush

The Palestinians are not a sovereign nation, and therefore couldn't have a true formal army even if they wanted to (their police force is, while large, not an army).

Also, according to ha'aretz, the IDF says that the attackers were firing only at security forces.

Three more victims of Hebron attack identified

The names of two more victims of Friday's deadly shooting attack in the West Bank town of Hebron were made public Saturday evening.

They are Yitzhak Boanish, 48, the civilian security officer of the Jewish community of Kiryat Arba; Alexander Zwitman, 26; and 33-year-old Alexander Dohan. The three were residents of Kiryat Arba. Details concerning their funerals were not given.

Eleventh victim of Hebron attack identified

The name of the eleventh victim of Friday's deadly shooting attack in the West Bank town of Hebron was made public Saturday evening.

He is Corporal David Markus, 19, of Ma'aleh Adumim.

david: Exactly. While not not a sovereign nation and fighting to carve one out of another country's territory (that some of their people have lived on for generations) , the Confederacy could not have a true formal army. In fact... oh, wait. I'm wrong. You are too. Perhaps you should consult with General Arafat...some more.

Huh? Model4...could you expand that a bit? As it is, it doesn't make much sense.

And an internal conflict involving rebellion and a international conflict involving sovereign nations are fundamentally different (which is why captured palestinians [and, for that matter, captured members of the american confederacy], don't have the same rights as POWs).

david: Should I use smaller words or type more slowly? Let's start with your statement:

The Palestinians are not a sovereign nation, and therefore couldn't have a true formal army even if they wanted to (their police force is, while large, not an army).

The US Confederacy (like many movements before and since around the world) was no a sovereign nation and *did* have a formal army. Therefore, not having sovereignty does not preclude having a formal army. It is historical and present day fact, despite your claim to contrary. Again, ask the general what he is a general of. Ask IJ, HAMAS and Fatah what their commanders are in command of. Or scoop more sand into your eyes and claim you just don't see it.

But hey, any excuse to justify murderers that refuse to wear uniforms / carry arms openly, refuse to target only military targets, use ambulances and hospitals to stage attacks from and transport weapons and fighters, and conduct combat ops in the midst of their civilians.

Anyone can start an army. It takes a special kind of guy to absolve one particular army from the responsibility all the others face.

david,

What is this "rebellion" you keep refering to? What is it that the Palestinians are rebelling against? That Jews live and breath? How you can refer to the savagery of the Palestinians as rebellious, is beyond me. Truly.

You somehow think that because most of those killed and wounded were soldiers or police, that it makes it acceptable? Morally acceptable. Islamic Jihad is morally acceptable? Hamas, Fatah, Al Aksa...etc., are morally acceptable?

Soldiers huh? That 19-year old soldier is somebody's baby. Don't take the humanity out of this by saying that it's actually not that bad if you consider that those maimed and murdered were soldiers. And it was Shabbat. And they celebrated afterwards. These drooling freaks do not fight like real men. They are nothing more than gangsters. Savage gangsters.

RE - Zulubaby

two things:

(1) A preliminary IDF investigation suspects that the attack was planned against the jewish settlement of Qiryat-Arba, but for an unknown reason changed their target. [I'd give you the link, but it's the IDF radio in hebrew...]
This means the attack was planned ahead against civillians, NOT security personnel.

(2) Border Police soldiers were killed in the attack.
The SAME border police is guarding palestinians and their property from settler payback, AS WE SPEAK. And you BET those soldiers are going to get beaten up in the process.
What can I tell you, those evil, evil soldiers!!!

nomad33 (#114)

Thank you for the update. I did not know that the attack was originally planned for a different location.

I was just reading the news, and I saw what was happening with the settlers. 1,500 of them demonstrating! Those poor soldiers. They get it from all sides. This is just making me sick.

Look at this picture of Palestinian gunmen from the Islamic Jihad militant group.

And look at the stone this Palestinian is hurling at the soldiers.

David, Zulubaby,

For a rebellion, including an insurrection against a military occupier, to enjoy the protections of international law (under either the levee' en masse rules of the original 1949 Geneva Conventions or under the 1975 Protocols to those conventions, they have to bear arms openly, wear uniforms and identifying insignia, have a clear chain of command and not target civilians. None of these conditions was fulfilled in this instance, since the original target was a group of civilian worshippers, albiet escorted by soldiers. By way of contrast, Tito's partisan army in Yugoslavia in WWII did meet those criterion (and were probably the main model for the 1949 wording).

Hebron Islamic Jihad cell eluded IDF

Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Moshe Ya'alon said Sunday that the Islamic Jihad cell responsible for Friday night's terrorist attack, left Hebron when the IDF entered Palestinian areas of the city, and returned a month ago when the army withdrew, reports Israel Radio.

Images of the 12 murdered in Hebron in the Sabbath Massacre