LGF

-RetweetA Religious Duty

Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 8:45:14 am PST

The author of the phrase that enraged the followers of the Religion of Peace™ in Nigeria has fled the country after the deputy governor of Zamfara called on all Muslims everywhere to kill her.

Zamfara's deputy governor Mamuda Aliyu Shinkafi told religious leaders in the state capital, Gusau: "Like Salman Rushdie, the blood of Isioma Daniel can be shed."

The speech was rebroadcast on local radio in Zamfara state, which was the first state in Nigeria to introduce Islamic law.

"It is binding on all Muslims wherever they are, to consider the killing of the writer as a religious duty".
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78 comments

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1 First!  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 6:48:45am

In yo FACE!

2 billhedrick  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 6:49:15am

gee why can't we do this with Michael Moore (tongue EXTREMELY in cheek!)

3 Brooklyn Boy  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 6:55:50am

Understand Nigeria and you understand the Islamic threat

This past week, Muslims in Nigeria rioted. The reason for the beatings, and killings of Christians and the torching of Christian churches; the West's reporting of these riots; and the official Muslim reactions to the riots explain almost everything you need to know about the threat non-Muslim civilization faces at this time.

4 pentaxian  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 6:56:33am

Freedom of Speech, brought to you by Religion of Peace(tm)

5 Elizabeth  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 6:57:39am

As if 225 dead weren't enough for the RoP. Got to issue another fatwa and kill the author too.

None of this was about the article andeverything to do with the killing was about intimidation and an excuse to indulge hatred and bloodlust.

Islam as practiced in Northern Nigeria is about HATRED and DOMINATION and UNBRIDLED BLOODLUST! Allah and God are nowhere to be found in it. These are men enforcing their manmade and subjectively interpreted domineering rules on those weaker than themselves and using the 'mob' to frighten and intimidate the population.

The UN, if it had any balls at all, would roundly condemn and penalize the Government of Nigeria with meanginful sanctions for indulging this bullying, fratricide and bloodlust.

6 Tatterdemalian  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 6:58:34am

bill -

Well, in Tyler Patterson's psychotic little world, the fact that he's still alive just means that John Ashcroft hasn't got around to him yet. After all, Ashcroft murdered JFK Jr, Chandra Levy, and Noam Chomsky (the picture on the front of 9-11 turns blood red underwater!), so obviously THE MAN IS ON A RAMPAGE AND MUST BE STOPPED!

7 McMonkey & McPig  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 6:59:15am

Have any western journalists written or spoken in support of her?

8 d Smith  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:00:39am

LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU
*religion of peace, religion of peace, religion of peace*
LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU

9 Idiotarian  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:01:14am

Hey, if the Moslems want to kill people and suppress free speech, that's their right and none of our business. And that writer should be ashamed for having written such a provocative, violence-inducing article in the first place.

10 GI JOE  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:02:19am

I thought opinions are a dime a dozen?

11 Minstrel  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:04:47am

My prayers are with this woman, and with all those who fear for their lives because they dared to speak the truth and air their opinions.
May God help us all if this sort of thing goes unchecked much longer.

12 Brian Jacks  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:05:52am

Will the liberals and college radicals be protesting this? Hopefully they can find time in-between their anti-Israel and anti-Bush rallies.

13 Confuzed  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:06:16am

Speechless. Absolutely speechless...

14 Laurence Simon  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:06:44am

Odd. Reporters Without Frontiers doesn't have a category for Fatwahs. Just imprisonment and death up there.

They've crawled out from under their rocks long enough to post a reaction in French. Still waiting on English, but here's a roughshod Google Translation.

15 Nastification Agenda  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:08:24am

Peaceful co-existence is anathema to Muslims. In Pakistan where Hindus formed 16% of the population at Partition, Muslims ethnically cleansed them down to less than 1%. Bosnia is ethnically cleansing its Orthodox and Roman Catholic minorities. Nigeria's Northern Muslim fanatics are ethnically cleansing Christians, Spiritualists and Animists. Doubters, denyers and appeasers should ask a Nigerian:

[Link: nigeriaworld.com...]

16 Joe  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:08:27am

I am sure that many Muslims are horrified by what goes on in Nigeria. If only we were more accepting and not as racist, w esurely would have noticed. That must be it, casue to an infidel's eyes, they see to be all much more histeric over a terrorist's house being demolished than by burning alive some black Christians.

Funny how oppressed peoples think ...

17 Dr. Jal Hampson  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:08:49am

EVERYONE STOP!!!

Before everyone goes ape shit over this, and starts calling for us to nuke the Muslim world, (or at least enough of it), can we all just take a moment to remember that this is all a J-E-W conspiracy to make the Muslims look like a bunch of backwards inbred monkey fuckers. They are so good at this. Poor Muslims.

18 m12edit  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:12:52am

I think it our secular duty to wipe these people out.

19 tom  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:12:53am

Religion of peace?

Two years ago, Kaduna saw more than 2,000 deaths in clashes between Christians and Muslims, sparked by the introduction of Sharia law.

20 CPatterson  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:15:03am

By Allah people!!

How fragile is your faith that you would kill someone over a quip?

Ah, I forget, Islam under Wahabbi tenets is strictly about form and not about belief.

21 Tomo  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:17:21am

Isalamaniacs..
Mullatards..
Muftimunchers..
MOSQUEITOS

22 OverWatch  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:19:50am
23 Palandine  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:20:05am

Okay, everybody, a show of hands:

How long has it been since your priest, minister, or rabbi told you it was your religious duty to kill a reporter who wrote mildly unflattering things about your faith?

I know in my case it's been at least a few months. After all, CAIR says that Christians are capable of the same things as Muslims.

/sarcasm off.

24 Abu Hamza  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:22:51am

I wonder if the rioters can even read, cuz the quote is totally harmless, mild, almost sounds favorable to Islam. Maybe there's a translation issue here? Maybe what was written in the rioter's language is different than what was translated to us? Maybe the riots are about something totally different, but the allegedly offensive article is just a pretext? I'm just trying to make some sense out of this senseless religious persecution motivated by nothing. Maybe the rioters didn't here W's speech about how Islam means peace.

25 hanna  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:23:37am

As stupid as the reason for the Nigerian riots were the press' reaction in blaming the reporter was nothing less than intellectual masturbation.

The London Times reported that the "poor offended muslims" had no choice but to riot over a completely transparent slip of the tongue because the reporter and the pageant operator had "offended" muslims.

(The contest states last year's Miss World winner (being Nigerian) meant that the contest would be held in Nigeria as an honor for having a top winner in a previous year. The London Times failed to mention that and blamed the west's insensitivity to muslims as if it was a muslim's right to torch christians whenever a reporter makes them angry. I don't see the frickin' connection, but Ok.)

The moral of this story is clear. Violence is a part of muslim "culture" and when muslims become offended by beauty contests (or anything unmuslim like, say--gay men)--we all must go out and torch churches, beauty contestants, reporters or gay men. Give me a break.

As stupid as these riots were (and the movement that they represent) not calling the riots asinine made the American and British press look flaccid in defense of reporters (and a free press) everywhere.

Violence is never a true culture--it is the symptom that all truer forms of culture have been choked off or obliterated. Riots and calling for the death of a reporter because of a bathing suit contest is simply--asinine behavior. Period.

I guess there is a reason why the KKK and the muslim fundamentalist want their faces covered with sheets at all times--protection from responsibility and maturity.

But what explains the London Times' article defending fundamentalist-muslim intolerance?

26 Studsup  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:23:44am

Poor little timmy Tommy D who got his knickers in a knot over Rush Limbaugh. Hey, Daschle, this latest fatwa is an example of real hate speech with muscle behind it. That's what you should be concerned about and not so concerned about chillng the First Amendment rights of "talk radio" and the internet. Unfortunately, Tom, you and your buddies McDermott, Gore, Bonior, Pelosi, Clinton and the rest of the terror coddlers, cultural apologists and appeasers, are a big part of the reason that the Islamofascists represent the threat they do to the USA and other infidels.

27 Ernie G  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:24:17am
Have any western journalists written or spoken in support of her?

Western journalists and academics have an attitude towards third-world countries best explained by the "Safari Park" analogy. This means you roll up your windows as you drive through, and with non-judgmental detachment, watch the lions as they chase down and kill the gazelles.

(BTW, the Safari Park analogy is not my original idea. I read the essay on somebody's blog, and would appreciate it if someone would post the URL.)

28 Confuzed  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:25:26am

Day after day, more acts of aggression, more violence, more hatred, more ignominious lies, more murder...

"A good plan executed violently today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."

-George Patton

Faster, please

29 Kalle (kafir forever)  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:26:07am

If you remember that nothing was done when the mad-mullahs of Iran called for the murder of Salman Rushdie, you will know that nothing will be done this time either. After all, she offended them and insulted Mahomet (ptui!). The lack of reaction to the calls for murdering Rushdie were seen as weakness and encouragement by the islamofascists and will haunt us for many years to come.

If the governments of the free world had any sense, they would now make public statements to the effect that our military forces have been authorized to kill, without warning, any Muslim leader who encourages the murder of writers, journalists, professors, and other intellectuals for reasons of "thought-crime." It is crucial that we protect freedom of expression everywhere -- it is the only acid that will totally dissolve a murderous culture. To that end, the proper way to deal with dictators and criminals is force: let them know that they will pay for murder and calls to murder; let them experience our force in retaliation.

Unfortunately, I expect the government of Nigeria to continue to tolerate their fatwah-maniacs calling for further murder.

30 Robo11  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:26:27am

Without outrage from the more moderate Muslim nations, there will never be any change. The change must come from within. Although, a few forced Government changes a la Iraq wouldn't hurt either.

31 John B  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:29:42am

Re: #7

The Toronto Globe and Mail had an interesting article about her today. Unfortunately, I can't find it on their web site.

Re: #15

This a wonderful column. I bookmarked Rudolf Okonkwo for further reading. Thanks.

32 Amos  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:35:06am

Some said it before, and I'll say it again: Death Cult.

33 MPA  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:36:49am

The USA should provide asylum for her immediately and make a very public announcement across ArabWorld that it has done so. Let's take down the names of the muslocretins that compalin about it. We'll have additional comments later.

34 m12edit  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:42:49am

OT...more RoP, in Iran

[Link: www.miami.com...]

apparently we're asking Iran for help with Iraq...we're asking the country that is doing these things for help:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

"Iran forbids demonstrations defending a reformist scholar"

and ever more disturbing, if possible:

[Link: news.ft.com...]

"Iran's hardline judiciary launched a crackdown on the pro-reform student movement on Tuesday by arresting at least six activists who had organised two weeks of campus protests demanding political change."

why does this not surprise me?

35 Rick  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:43:11am

Anyone else concerned that the cable and network news dopes continue to report this as "Muslim and Christian rioting"???

That is a lot like reporting a KKK lynching as "white and black rioting"

And they wonder why the ratings (other than FNC) sink lower and lower and lower...

36 someone  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:46:58am

CPatterson (#20): You don't really think it was about the article, do you? I believe most of the rioters can't even read English. It was whipped up by somebody, perhaps for specific political reasons.

37 selmer  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:47:36am

#33 MPA

I like that idea. That would piss off those mad, mad pricks.

38 Mixed Carma  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:48:17am

First of all, granted I'm not a Moslem, but I don't see what was particularly offensive about what the reporter wrote.

The story of Mohamed widely believed by moslems acknowledges that he had a number of wives and that he generally liked chicks, so what's the big deal. Saying that the prophet would have found these contestants so attractive he would want to marry one is more of a complement than a criticism. It's not as if she implied he was into goats or little boys or the like.

Secondly, exactly who in the "religion of peace" is authorized to issue these great fatwas which obligate all moslems to kill someone as part of their religious duty. It seems like mulas, sheiks and ullams all over the place frequently issue these fatwas. OBL does it, Komeni did it, this Nigerian govenor is doing it. Do they have a centralized fatwa clearing house or can just any Moslem wake up in the morning and start issuing fatwas against what ever is chaffing his underside at the moment?

39 Crusader  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 7:58:11am

What's especially amusing about the entire Nigeria situation is that the Founder of the ROP was essentially the David Koresh of his day. Gibbon writes in Decline and Fall:

"...but in his private conduct, Mahomet indulged the appetites of a man, and abused the claims of a prophet. A special revelation dispensed him from the laws which he had imposed on his nation: the female sex, without reserve, was abandoned to his desires; and this singular prerogative excited the envy, rather than the scandal, the veneration, rather than the envy, of the devout Mussulmans."

Gibbon, of course, was about the last author to be allowed to write the truth about Islam and its "prophet." These days you can say whatever you like about Jesus, but try saying anything other than adulatory bullcrap about Muhammad. Good luck.

As always, Deus lo vult!

40 Keelie  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 8:02:08am

#29 - Kalle - That's the most sensible approach.

Governments and the media should take note that if their respective levels of morality (or whatever you call it) are such that they allow, and in fact facilitate, this kind of behaviour - murder - the ordinary people, those affected (us) will use their own common sense and fight it, any way they can.

In effect, if the powers that be don't perform their moral duty to protect and to accurately inform, we will do it ourselves, because we will have no other option, and the hunter will become the hunted.

This is result in anarchy, and if the moral law is ignored, it will supplant the normal rule of law. Is that what these people prefer?

41 Kalle (kafir forever)  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 8:03:28am

A fatwa is a legal statement issued by a mufti or religious "scholar," on any specific issue. There is no hierarchy in Islam, except that all Muslims are slaves of Allah, non-believers should be killed or used as slaves of Muslims, and women are useful as breeding animals only.

42 Eric Pobirs  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 8:10:08am

Now that the Rittemhouse Review is safely delinked from exposure to genuine reactions to the exposed face of evil:

Utter fucking barbarians that should be wiped from befouling existence for the rest of us.

43 David  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 8:10:55am

The RoP does not need a fatwa to kill anyone. They do it for a combination of blood lust, pleasure and self-righteousness. They can always make up a justification for it later, as long as it completly absolves them personally from any sense of responsibilty for their own actions.

44 Susan  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 8:11:40am

#38,

No, there isn't any universal "fatwa clearinghouse", at least not in Sunni Islam (85 percent of the Islamic world). The Islamic scholars at Al-Azhar University in Egypt and the Muftis of Mecca and Medina are often considered a bit "Pope-like" but there's nothing in Islam forcing anybody to listen to them, and in any case, none of these people have to agree with each other on what constitutes "Real" Islam.

The reality is that any old Tom, Dick or Abdullah can set himself up as a scholar and start issuing fatwas. (A fatwa is a religious ruling about any Islamic question, not specifically a death sentence.) This is a big problem in Islam.

Shiite Islam is a little different; from what I have read, they do have a recognized clerical hierarchy and an ordination process for their religious authorities.

45 alex  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 8:12:20am

I have to disagree with the conventional wisdom here. Refering to the fighting as "muslim and christian rioting" is accurate. The article Charles linked to refers to Mosques and Churches being burned down. Assuming Muslims aren't burning down their own mosques then we have christian rioters burning stuff.

That being said I think the cause of the rioting is being misreported. I sincerely doubt that the article caused the rioting. In my opinion the cause of the rioting should have been reported as 'long simmering hatreds' or 'an ongoing religious war in the country'. Blaming the rioting on the article is just lousy journalism.

46 Lila  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 8:14:12am

i remember last year some of islam's apologists were calling on the US not to bomb the Talis and Bin Laden's followers in Afghanistan because it was ramadan.
several islamic countries e.g. Saudi A. at the beginning of Ramaddan called on non-muslims to be respectful of islam.

why can't they do the same? why can't they be respectful of non-muslims and opinions other than theirs?

i am not sure if this reporter had written a similar opinion of Jesus Christ, any sane Christians would have rioted and killed in the name of Christ.

there is something inherently wrong with moslems and this notion of killing "blasphemers."

i feel very sad that the PC crowd is blaming the organisers and the journalist rather than the rioters for allah.

i'm pro multiculti but i do regret that multicultis allow these people to get away with such crimes.

Nigerian novelist Chinua Achebe says:

"We have dug ourselves into Sharia; into a situation where we have become a laughing stock of the world, because we are discussing things like stoning women to death in the 21st century."

a. what would the Mohammed think?
b. what would Jesus drive?

it is amazing that question (a) leads to death and destruction, while question (b) is stirring some debate about fuel consumption.

we may not like the Nigerian writer's opinion on Mohammed but that is no reason to kill.
questions like these force religions and societies to confront modernity, and should be posited.

47 Valentine  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 8:24:17am

Mosques were burned (if any) only AFTER 3-5 churches were burned down AND christians were being killed in droves and forced to defend themselves. Apparently you are a rioter if you got to defend yourself

48 Glen Wishard  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 8:28:27am

To hell with the BBC - the voices coming out of Nigeria are infinitely more interesting:

[Link: www.nigeria.com...]

Our "dear puppet" leader OBASANJO is to blame for all this. Is it just me or has anyone else heard President Obasanjo speak. He cannot profer any solution to anything for the love of his life. Does anyone remember his reply when Sharia was introduced to many parts of Nigeria? What about when a lady was condemed to death by stoning for having sex outside of marriage? How about when the Miss World contest was first given to Nigeria and our Muslem brothers said it would never happen in Nigeria? ...

GOD Almighty please help Nigeria.

Ndewo nu!

49 Robert Crawford  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 8:33:19am
Mosques were burned (if any) only AFTER 3-5 churches were burned down AND christians were being killed in droves and forced to defend themselves. Apparently you are a rioter if you got to defend yourself

I believe it works like this:

"Muslim protestors"

"Christian rioters"

50 Kalle (kafir forever)  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 8:39:31am

muslim murderers: "militants" or "dissidents"

vs

non-muslims victims: "extremists" "rioters" "fundamentalists" "zionists" "oppressors" etc.

I would like to know why our media are so insanely spinning everything in favour of islamofascism. Don't they realize what their fate will be at the hand of these stone-age primitives?

51 Dee Bates  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 8:48:35am

#5, Elizabeth:

I disagree wih yor assessment. True, the article was merely an excuse to indulge hatred and bloodlust, rioting and murder, but that is what TROPE (The Religion of Peace Entity) is all about. Read the Qura ... Qur'a ... Ko ... read their book. It fosters and justifies exactly this kind of intolerance, hatred and bloodlust.

#22, Overwatch:

Thanks for the site. Good stuff.

#25 hanna:

Nothing excuses journalists' position on this matter, just as nothing excuses the feminists' who stood up in London and told the Miss World contestants that they would be wearing "bikinis dripping in blood."

#26 Studsup:

Unfortunately, the list is much longer. We may start with the universities, which taught these relativists that tolerance means tolerance of - and justification for - murder and calls for murder. Just like TROPE.

#29 Kalle (kafir forever):

I beg to differ. While Rushdie wasn't murdered, his life - and the life of his publishers, both in the US and the UK, was made a hell by the fatwa against them. None of them were murdered, it is true, but is wasn't from a lack of trying. You are right for calling for the civilized world to issue threat for threat - and back it up with action if necessary. It is past time for these people to learn what it is like to be on the receiving end. They are, in effect, putting out a contract for murder, which is conspiracy to commit murder in law.

Dee

52 Glen Wishard  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 8:54:37am

Lila wrote:

a. what would the Mohammed think?
b. what would Jesus drive?

Tough questions, unless you switch the names. Jesus would think "Blessed are the meek", etc.

Mohammed, on the other hand, would drive a T-72 tank. That's why God had to invent the Hellfire missile.

53 Eric Pobirs  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 8:55:54am

Actually, there were murders and injuries in association with Rushdie. See the following link:

[Link: www.web.amnesty.org...]

54 Occasional Reader  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 9:06:09am

Ms Daniel's article has also been attacked by Nigeria's President Olusegun Obasanjo and by Miss World president Julia Morley.

Nigeria's state security service said last week it was seeking to arrest her.

I think I know a term for this: "state-sponsored terrorism". Oh, and a bit of "Miss World president-sponsored terrorism" thrown in.

This is simply incredible. The whole thing would appear like a laughable Onion parody, if it weren't so deadly serious. The President of the flipping country, AND the western-based organization sponsoring the event, are both screaming for the head of this poor journalist. It's astonishing how apparently... seductive?... this sort of fundamentalist violence is to people who should know better. I'm not religious, but I recall the Catholic baptismal rite's reference to "the glamour of evil". Hits the nail right on the head.

55 Montaigne's Cat  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 9:10:23am

#7, McMonkey and McPig
#27, Ernie G

Didn't the New York writers organization PEN come out in support of Rushdie? Perhaps they have spoken up again this time, although I haven't heard that they did.

#44, Susan

The renowned Indian journalist Arun Shourie has written a book called The World of Fatwas exploring 40 volumes of collected fatwas issued in India, which never expire. They are a sort of folk literature with teeth. He says that for the believers (he is not one) Islam is the code for all aspects of life, and the fatwas are the enforcement of the code.

56 GI JOE  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 9:13:17am

"If you would rather kill another religion's faithful than worship your own G-d you are a muslim believer."

"By killing you they are worshipping their god better than if they were alive, now that's being a muslim."

57 Montaigne's Cat  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 9:15:59am

Which European or Scandanavian country will be the first to offer Isioma Daniel political asylum?

England 5.3%
France 44.6%
Belgium 6.2%
The Netherlands 22.1%
Sweeden 8.3%
Norway 5.6%
Denmark 7.9%

58 Dirk Diggler  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 9:31:50am

Talk about a bad week...

I basically laughed myself to tears when I read that a fatwa (personally, I have yet to read of a fatwa that isn't either a death sentence or justification of some act of barbarity) had been issued calling for this reporter to be killed. Poor girl. First, the article she writes causes a firestorm of controversy which spills over into conflict between highly charged Christian and Muslim communities and claims over 200 lives. As a result of her "insult to the Prophet", she loses her job. A valuable commodity in a poor country like Nigeria. Now, to top it all off, the poor woman will now have about 40 million Muslims looking to "lop it all off". I know not all Muslims are capable of murder. Let us assume though that .1 of 1% of all Muslims in Nigeria have the capacity and the desire to kill. If this assumption is correct, this woman now has 40,000 in Nigeria alone who want to kill her! To put this number in perspective, the Mafia in the United States was at it's height no more than 4,000 members and associates. All of this over a innocuous remark concerning the how the Prophet wouldn't have hesitated to take the women in this years Ms. World competition as his wives. Personally, I don't believe that to be the case. As far as I am aware their were no 9 year olds in this years Ms. World competition! We all know Mo likes em' young!

59 Kalle (kafir forever)  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 9:38:48am

What countries are hotspots for islamofascists? is it any location where they represent close to a majority of the population and openly start to get rid of non-Muslims and/or a secular system?

Indonesia (East Timor + Bali), Nigeria (50+% Muslim), Sudan, Kashmir, India (150 million Muslims), Israel, Philippines (14%), Western Europe (15 million), France (5-6 million, 10%), Germany (3 million, 4%), Austria (15% !?). More stats here. Where is the fault-line running across Africa? and South-East Asia? is there any good map?

What Western cities have large, growing proportions of Muslims? London, 15%. Roubaix (France), 25-35%.

In 1951 there were 23,000 Muslims in Britain; by 2000, there were 2.5 million. Some predict that current trends will lead to 20-25% Muslims in Western Europe by 2020, representing 40% of the workforce. Where can one find more complete, reliable numbers?

60 squib  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 9:42:38am

#48 Glenn, thanks for that link.

61 OverWatch  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 9:44:21am

#33 MPA

Channel 4 news here in the UK are reporting that she has been granted asylum in the USA and is now in the states in hiding

62 OverWatch  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 9:49:34am

Incidently this is how al Guardian are reporting it.

Innocent life in danger - nope

Red Ken says no to Miss World - the poor girl gets a brief mention

Wankers

63 OverWatch  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 9:52:32am

#57 Morg

Damn - i'm going to have to switch my vote from France everytime they support the pals to Norway - they're getting uncomfortably close to knocking us off last place

64 Paul  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 9:59:56am

Just imagine what would happen to the Constitution and Bill of Rights if we bacame a shari'a land like northern Nigeria. Jamil Al-Amin (f/k/a H Rap Brown) once stated that Islamic law and the U.S. Constitution were imcompatible (this insight allowed him to shoot two cops).

65 mojo  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 10:12:13am

Why doesn't the Nigerian Government just kill everybody in the northern provinces?

Hey, it's not like anybody would notice.

It's AFRICA, Jake...

66 OverWatch  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 10:19:08am

#59 kalle

I had a good google a few days ago for a map and this one was the best I could find - it's from a muslim site the name of which i forget so it's overgenorous in India but other than that pretty accurate for 50%+ muslamics

posted here

(the title was in response to the local nigerian view of saudi imperialism - never hurts to reinforce these things if it helps people declare their independance from all that sharia shite)

67 thingie  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 10:26:35am

in re: # 46

There's another quote by Achebe further down the article:

"Religious differences have not just been introduced. Muslims and others have always been there, but somehow they didn't wipe each other out.
What is happening today is that some people are using these differences to promote their ambition and this is an abuse of politics... that's why the selfishness of the elite stands out so clearly."

He see this as a part of a larger problem: religious divisions, like tribal, language and political divisions, are being used as fuel for a greater fire. I'd buy that -- it still doesn't make the supposed 'reasons" for the riots and murders any less repugnant, but it does explain why 200+ people are dead over a beauty pageant.

Achebe is a Nigerian, and the grand old man of African letters, their version of a Hemmingway or a Faulkner.

The total text of the article is here:

Achebe interview

Oh, and there's a little explanation of the history of Islam in northern Nigeria and the surrounding countries here, and there's a map of the Fulani Empire here.

Basically, a nomadic people who traded (slaves, ivory) with the north-african Moslem states converted to Islam in the 18th century, and proceeded to carve out a little empire in the interior of west africa. This never reached the coast, which is why the dominant religion in the south (and in countries like Ivory Coast) is native animism and/or Christianity, not Islam.

The map's part of a book on the Empire that's been entered online, so if you're up for it you can read the entire history.

68 OverWatch  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 10:53:34am

A great post on the nigeria.com board - here

Good people on that board - lets hope the rest of south Nigeria has the sense they have

69 Kalle (kafir forever)  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 11:00:58am

Thanks for the map Overwatch. Looks like Burkina-Faso is surrounded and ripe for attack. Also noted that the North of Sri Lanka seems to be marked as Muslim -- which reminds me to ask: is the ongoing civil war over there a Muslim war too?

70 Glen Wishard  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 11:31:35am

#60 - Squib wrote #48 Glenn, thanks for that link.

Thanks are due to OverWatch who pointed it out to me; I read that forum before (a few months ago when two Nigerians were sentenced to death for converting to Christianity) but lost my links to it.

The writers there make a stark contrast to Clearguidance.com, but it doesn't surprise me. I met some students from west central Africa about a year ago, and they were vastly more sensible about these issues than the inmates of Berkeley and Concordia are. Not to mention, they're much politer than Europeans.

71 Glen Wishard  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 11:35:43am

Oops - sorry to over-italicize.

72 OverWatch  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 12:05:16pm

Glen, very true about their politeness..but they don't let it get in the way of their feeling about what is happening to their country. I'm in danger of going native if I post on there anymore...as we birts say

Bloody good bunch of chaps
73 Jimmy the Dimmy  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 12:29:19pm

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but I would like to call attention to a political/legal aspect of this event.

The government of Nigeria has allowed an individual in its hierarchy to call for another individual to be killed, to be subjected to a targeted assassination.

According to Amnesty International, Article 14 (1) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), which Nigeria has ratified, provides that everyone charged with a crime is entitled to be tried by "a competent, independent and impartial tribunal established by law."

While this contradiction may or may not be upheld in a court of law, there is reason to believe that the government of Nigeria is in violation of a number of agreements by which it is, or should be, bound, not the least of which might be its own Constitution.

Again according to Amnesty International, Nigeria has ratified the African Charter on Human and Peoples' Rights, and signed but not ratified (at the time the web page was published) the United Nations (UN) Convention against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.

[Link: www.amnesty.org...]

OK lawyers, go. Next, governments, ...

74 Elizabeth  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 2:55:09pm

Right on! Amnesty International pulled a rabbit out of the hat. Good one. Now let's put the Government's feet to the fire. Why didn't the Government put a stop to this nonsense long ago?

75 Squiddy  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 3:07:08pm

Spoons has an interesting angle on this story. He criticized the director of Miss World Nigeria for trivializing the murderous riots and blaming them on the media, and got a response from this guy's niece - she explicitly blames the writer of the article and not the rioters.
Is there no end to the blindness (or racism or condescension - what is it?) of the p.c. appeasers?

76 foobar  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 3:54:21pm

I hope when they do this here in the US, they are prosecuted as an organized crime syndicate on a RICO.

Did you know. . . that the original RICO prosecution was to prosecute the Nazi SS?

Maybe this would work in the Muslim case, too.

Wow, I'm in wrecked shape this evening. I blew a lot of leaves this afternoon and I'm exhausted. Am going to have a cup of coffee and maybe it will help.

77 Donna V.  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 5:06:36pm

Crusader: Thanks for the Gibbon quote. Good old completely un-PC Gibbon!

I agree with whoever said most of the rioters probably did not (and could not) read the offending article themselves. They were incited to riot. Undoubtably, someone wishing to stir up trouble invented a truly vile insult and told their neighbors that that was what they had read in the paper.

The amazing thing is that this wasn't even a drunken mob. The Muslims act insane enough stone cold sober.

78 David A. aka Survivor of the attack on the Pentagon  Tue, Nov 26, 2002 6:07:59pm

Kalle (#69)
No the Civil War in Sri Lanka is between the Hindu Tamils Minority in the North and the Buddhist Singlenese Majority in the South. There are no Moslems involved in this one. However the Tamil Tigers as the main Tamil force is called, are the folks who started the sucide bombers. Indeed the Tamils have had sent more sucide bombers then any Moslem group has. They have even used and are using a whole group of female sucide bombers. They have killed the President of Sri Lanka and former Prime Minister Raj Ghandi of India among many others.


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