Islam, despite protests to the contrary, has always been a cult of violent conquest.

First!

Bat Ye'or is an excellent scholar exposing the naked facts of dhimmitude and jihad with the acid of reason and historical evidence.

I wish some scholars would do the same kind of work, exposing islamoactive decay in science, technology, and the arts. The Muslim tradition of appropriating ideas from other people and attempting to eradicate their traces and original texts needs to be denounced.

#3, are there other scholars who've written about this, or am I just out of the loop? So far Bat Ye'or is the only name I've found.

#4,

Try Islam and Human Rights, by Ann Elizabeth Meyer. Not exactly a treatise on dhimmitude, but points out the discrimination against non-Muslims under sharia in contrast with the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

For those interested in the whole sorry Georgetown situation, Bat Ye'Or has all the claims and counter-claims meticulously documented at this link:

[Link: www.dhimmitude.org...]

Good for Bat Ye'Or and David Littman for fighting back!!!

#4

I just googled it (spelled it right-dhimmi, doesn't rhyme right though!) and got over 4,700 returns. Don't have time right now but most references I have seen are to Bat Ye'or.

Well, chose 1 at random (#91), looks Islamic, actually explains it pretty good
[Link: www.iad.org...]

Ya'll better watch out I'm gittin famouser and famouser!

surlybird, I think she's unique. Few intellectuals seem willing to provoke the insatiable rage of our friends the Moslems.

FYI, Attempted Assasination of US Embassador to Egypt:

[Link: 216.26.163.62...]

Recall that the US Embassador to Jordan, Laurence Foley, was assasinated last month:

[Link: www.cnn.com...]
 

It made my day: I met a nice Iranian fellow today who said two things that really struck me: 1) "I hope that when America gets done in Iraq, they go on to Iran and (makes throat-cutting gesture) to all the mullahs." 2) "Iran has been shit ever since Islam came into it." By this he didn't mean the Islamic Revolution of 1979. He meant Islam, period.

"Peace" Encyclopedia: What is Dhimma?
"Dhimma is the policy of treatment of Jews and Christians living in Islamic countries. Therefore a dhimmi is a Jew or a Christian living in an Islamic country. This policy does not apply to other peoples or religious groups, such as Hindus, for whom a strict policy of 'conversion or death' exists." Millions of Hindus have been massacred by the peaceful Moslems.

Khilafah.com, the HizbutTahrir website devoted to re-establishing the Caliphate, corroborates many of Bat Ye'Or's points regarding the discrimination against Non-Muslims in a Muslim state:

What Will Happen to Non-Muslims in an Islamic State?

[Link: www.khilafah.com...]

How can they attack Bat Ye'Or for repeating what they are saying on their own websites?

Thus, it is astonishing when this well-characterized historiography is largely ignored, or even denied, in scholarly writings.

Astonishing if you are unaware what passes for scholarship in the West. All leftist-faculty hiring all-leftist professors to teach an all-leftist agenda.

The Bat knows this, but she is living in the past when you used to be able to shame an academic by proving that they were agendized, didn't know readily accessible facts, or lying. Those days are long gone, the only unfogivable sin is heresy to their own cult. Maybe she's hoping to reach alumni, graduates or tax-payers who don't know how bad it has gotten.

Susan, #11, here's an interesting article from the site you posted:

[Link: www.khilafah.com...]

It's a 'critique' of President Bush's ramadan greeting to Muslims dated November 10, 2002.

Here's an excerpt, the President's comments come first, then the 'critique' follows:

Islam is a peace-loving faith that is practiced by more than one billion people, including millions of American Muslims.

[The Islam we have created has very little to do with the revealed revelation of Allah (swt). Our brand of Islam reduces it to a religion, a non-entity, devoid of political life, subservient to Western interests. In a nutshell, the Islam we know is ‘Capitalist-Islam’.]

Susan, others, thanks for the info.

#13: "In a nutshell, the Islam we know is ‘Capitalist-Islam’."

I vaguely remember that Mohammed's first wife was a businesswoman. But perhaps I shouldn't be expecting logic from these people.

OT - BBC doesn't scream murder? I had to doubletake on this - the story of the 95 yr old woman killed when her driver trying to drive through a roadblock doesn't make the beebs online front page and only merits a small link on the middle east index

They must have left the work experience kid in charge - i'm sure they'll correct it tommorow.

#15, I saw three references to it from different sources on Yahoo. (here)

susan,

thanks for the link - I thought that the sites i had for Hizb were a bit bland and static - yet another thats hosted in the UK grrr.

"In a nutshell, the Islam we know is ‘Capitalist-Islam’."

Capitalism is baaad for Muslims. They are much too weak and easily tempted by perdition.

They have a choice. They should really give it up. Give up everything: The modern comforts, even the the gilded western chairs, the cell phones, the swimming pools, the cars and the planes, the trips to the hot-spots of Western decadence, the blonde, long-legged whores, the booze, the drugs—GIVE IT UP!

Go back to herding camels in the desert in true Islamic perfection. But, only four wives at a time.

Life—It's all about making the right choices.

I'll have another glass of Champagne, Jeeves. ;-)

Wow, more from khilafah.com.  Apparently, in the UK, a new school curriculum has been put in place to teach people about how to live in the civilized world.

The Muslims are completely repulsed:

Parents who send their children to secondary schools will be aware that a new subject was introduced this September into the National Curriculum called Citizenship Studies. This subject will be compulsory for all children aged between 11 and 16 years old. It is important to critically examine this subject from an Islamic viewpoint, as our Muslim children will be exposed to it each day.

This subject may sound seemingly innocent, but its title belies its true aims, which is to integrate our Muslim children completely and comfortably into British society. They will be exposed to a whole series of thoughts, ideas and values that emanate from the Capitalist ideology. Topics they will study include diversity, democracy, the voting in British elections, human rights, the role of the United Nations, and how the Western economy functions.  This subject is going to result in diluting and weakening Muslims understanding and adherence to Islam, so that they abandon their Islamic upbringing, values and identity and replace it with secular values, personalities and outlook.

[Link: www.khilafah.com...]

They also go on to criticise democracy, with the following logic:

Muslim children will be taught how 'Democracy' comes from a Greek term 'Demos Cratus', which means "people sovereignty" and how the Greeks were the first nation who attempted to apply democracy in Athens. However, will your children be taught the truth about democracy? That its system of voting only included Greek male citizens and excluded women, slaves, immigrants and non-Greeks who constituted the majority of the population.

The logic of the deranged -- appalled that women could not vote thousands of years ago, yet men and women are not allowed to vote today in Muslim countries, and women are nothing more than property, essentially, abused cattle who can walk upright.
 

#16

I can only see one from the beeb - obviously there are dozens of different places running the story - the guardians is particularly biased - suggesting the car was stationary etc but for once the bbc has not gone over the top - like I said, they no doubt correct it as soon as general fatarab calls them to complain.

Another quote (sorry for flooding the thread, but this must-read stuff):

Under Citizenship Studies, your children will also be taught about their 'freedoms'; namely freedom of belief, freedom of speech, freedom of ownership and personal freedom. In relation to freedom of belief, they will be taught that they can believe in what they want, be it God, Krishna or nothing at all. However, as Muslims we know we are not free in the matters of belief. Prophet Muhammad said, "Whosoever changes his deen, kill him." Therefore, there is no such concept as freedom of belief in Islam. Also, they will study freedom of opinion, i.e. that they can express any opinion they wish. Again, this contravenes Islam, as the Muslim is not free to have an opinion, other than that based on Islam.

[Link: www.khilafah.com...]

That khilafah site is pointless. It says all this stuff about how Islam does not kill and how they treat all religions with respect.
Don't matter what they say. They aren't actually DOING it!

AB, #22, where did you see religious tolerance on kalifah.com?

I've seen nothing but intolerance across the board, for anything other than Islam.

Basically, their views are anti-diversity, anti-democracy, anti-human rights, anti-freedom, and anti-capitalist.

I'm sure there's more anti-s to be found.  All this found after only after a few minutes browsing the site.
 

Speaking of the BBC, I came across this today:

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

It sounds like a good idea, Q&A with Tony Blair. People phone in and e-mail questions for the PM. Gracious of him to oblige, good of the Beeb to host it. So what does the liberal Blair get for his time and trouble? You guessed it... precious little but criticism from liberals based on anti-American, anti-Israeli, and/or pro-dictator sentiment. A lot of it reads as, well, rude to me, but in a polite way. Hard to describe, but not how I'd address a man in his position, even if I despised him.

It isn't that interesting, but isn't that bad if you're bored. I've got a soft spot for Blair (the man), and really like the way he speaks. He's tons better than most of the weasels in Brussels anyhow.

#6 JimmyDimmy...from your link...

" RIGHTS DICTATED BY NATURE
Rights due to non-Muslims

The term "non-Muslim" comprises all disbeliveers. They can be classified into four categories:

hostile non-Muslims,

non-Muslims seeking asylum in an Islamic environment,

covenanted non-Muslims

and Dhimmi (non-Muslims living among the Muslims and paying Jizya " tax).

...and thats it!!!

and these are rights dictated by nature...!!!

So a majority in the secular democracies, are denying what Muslims themselves admit. The core ideas of the deniers are rooted in the influential views of Karen Armstrong and John Esposito. Their chain of perverse judgement runs as follows:

First, they believe that the intense religiosity of Muslims, in contrast to the secularism of the West, contributes to a general revival of religious feeling. Notwithstanding the extreme backwardness that burdened the world until the secular state became possible, they reject cultural materialism with extreme enmity. Armstrong-Esposito trench-thought precludes recognition of anything positive outside of the Islamic experience.

Second, they believe that the benign view of Islam must be spun, regardless of the facts. Hence, Armstrong spun her "hijack" dogma, to detach Islam from the Muslim majority which is supporting the terrorist leaders who are on the front-line in the Khalifa-restoration JIHAD.

Third, in order to reinforce benign-Islam dogma, they claim that Islam's proclaimed "golden age" presented the highest stage of human development, and that restoration of its cultural form would advance humanity. Anyone who saw the PBS series, "Islam: Empire of Faith" saw eight academics regurgitate "golden age" dogma. So fanatic are the neo-Orientalists, in support of that fiction that they treat the Western experience as malignant. Extreme derision is manifest in each scholastist regurgitator, whenever they speak of the West's contacts with Muslims. Contrarilty, extreme enthusiasm - to the point of giddyness - is evident, wherever they point to fictional Muslim influences on the West. They anathemize the entire Judaeo-Christian/Hellenic-Roman experience. In short: in order to reinforce "golden age" dogma, they treat the Western experience as a general "dark age."

Fourth, they reinforce malignant-West dogma, by accepting en toto, every Muslim grievance against the West. They subordinate the education profession, to advancing the claims of Muslims. In short, the majority of Western academics, based solely on the circular reasoning that props Muslim khalifa-restoration dogmas, they have convicted the West of cultural depravity and materialistic aggression, and are facilitating blood redress. The neo-Orientalists have imposed a life-purpose on Western academia: the negation of Western academia.

Once the burgeoning ANTI-JIHAD feeling becomes majority thought in the West, there will be a strong reaction against the Armstrong-Esposito suicide cult. Those two phonies have read every Islamic Hadith reference to to humanity as "abdallah" (slave of allah) and are well aware that Islam is a cultural negation of human independence. They chose to betray humanity.

xxx

"(By 'clerks') I mean that class of men whom I shall designate 'the clerks,' by which term I mean all those whose activity essentially is nto the pursuit of practical aims, all those who seek their joy in the practice of an art or a science or metaphysical speculation, in short in the possession of non-material advantages, and hence in a certain manner say, 'My kingdom is not of this world.'" Julien Benda, LA TRAHISON DE CLERCS, 1927. Although Benda's term "clercs" has been translated as "clerks," suggesting some intellectual bureaucracy, the actual meaning is "cleric." He used it as a pejorative term for the class of neo-scholastists which arose in the early 20th century.

“Verily the Imam is a shield behind which you fight and protect yourselves.” [Bukhari]

This protection can only come in the form of a state established on the Islamic Aqeedah. This State will protect us, our children and the Muslim Ummah from the continual onslaught of secular concepts, values and influences from the West. The Islamic State (Khilafah) will offer an education system that will aim to develop the Islamic personality in its thoughts and behaviour, thereby safeguarding the Islamic society. Such an education system will result in building a distinct Ummah intellectually who will carry Islam to all mankind, so it can lead the world, as it previously did for many centuries and Inshallah will do so again. [Link: www.khilafah.com...]

Bizarro!

Why are these people in the decadent West? Why are they subjecting their pure Islamic children to our moral decrepitude? Why don't they live in a pure Islamic country? Those places that are doing so well under Islam.

This is serious stuff! They would clearly choose Islam over patriotism or any sort of allegiance to their host nation. These people should be deported!

Lets adopt the finer aspects of Moslem life and issue our own fatwahs. We could also call for the occasional jihad, even if its just to test out our latest nukes.
The royal out-house of Saud is first on my fatwah list. With so many princes and princesses, I plan to be rather busy the next couple of years.
Donations from any ambassadore's wife with a check book will be gratefully appreciated.

Any thorough Jewish history (of which there are hundreds) will include the Christian and Muslim treatment of Jews. None of this is new information, but now the general public is interested. I'm glad Bat Yeor is doing her bit to publicize it.

However, until this century no country (even America) has true equal rights and citizenship for all groups under its authority. Nobody expected it. Jews hoped to live under a relatively tolerant ruler, and most of the time the Muslims were better than the Christians, which is not saying much by today's standards (but no one had indoor plumbing in those days either).

However, now many people around the world have experienced the concept of equal rights and full citizenship, either living in a country which gives such to their group or seeing it on TV and wanting it. We all have heightened expectations of our ability to be in charge of our civic lives, just when Islam wants to send us all back to those cuddly times when we had to get lucky with a tolerant ruler to have a decent life.

Just some speculation:

Events that could happen over the next decade.

1) Pakistan, S Arabia, and other Muslim nations are overtaken politically by Islamofascists.

2) Organized Islamofascists undermine any semblance of modern life throughout their territories.

3) 200 million Muslims in India and 200 million Pakistani Muslims in a yearlong upheaval / turmoil finally trigger a nuclear war resulting in 100 million dead.

4) In order to restore global stability: Rest of world is
forced to occupy entire Muslim/Arab world in order to de-nazify population. This work takes upwards of 2 decades.

5) In year 2030, Islam is reborn as a modern (ie reformed ) institution that resembles Conservative/reform Judaism and/or mainstream Christianity.

Nastification Agenda, given all the essays you publish here, are you writing a book or gathering your writings in one location for public access and ease of reference?

One thing you I learned recently while listening to the audio programs on IslamicAwakening.com was that there are lots of loopholes in Islamic rules and regulations. So never judge their actions by their speech, they are 2 different things.

For instance, Mohammed instructed in the Koran that in battle, that women and children should not be killed. The loophole is that it is completely proper (decided by scholars) to kill women and children if you are not aiming to kill them. Colateral damage is very ok. So that if you have a car packed with C4 (this is not an example they used) and you spot a man on a bus full of school children, it is proper to kill him with your bomb as long as your intent was to kill him. Any children who die are inconsequential.

Another thing they talked about was suicide. It is very bad to kill yourself in Islam. Unforgivable. But the scholars have said that if a person was acting under the mistaken idea that it was proper and approved by Allah, then that person would not be held responsible by Allah. Intention is 9/10ths of Islam. I assume that there is a similar loophole for those that lied to him and persuaded him to commit a suicide bombing. (Ignorance is bliss, err I mean paradise).

In other words, in Islam, it all depends on what 'is' is.

The audio program made reference to other incorrect versions of Islam; Sunni, Sufi and Shi'a, so I assume this is by the sect based in Saudi Arabia.

I think it is time to hold a good old-fashioned Quran burning protest. And let's burn Mohammed in effigy.

Squiddy #9,

I wonder when all the non-Arab people's who had great pre-Islamic civilizations are going to wake up and realize that Islam has led them to failure.

Does anybody know if Egyptians are ethnically Arabs or just arabic speaking?

Jihad Pihad, whats really happening against the Jews, is incremental implementation of the holocaust.
An article by Steven Zak in

www. washtimes.com

gives further credence.

# 18
Good point. Religions seem to evolve into what is required to maintain order within a society. Considering the cut throat barbarians who adhere to Islam, it is no wonder that it is so rigid.

Jihad IS NOT some internal struggle with faith - it isn't even "killing infidels" though that is a tactic - IT IS THE EXPANSION OF THE TERRITORIES OF ISLAM ALL OVER THE WORLD. Jihad is obligatory for all muslims when called and is akin to a sacrament in the church.
The arabs/moslems go on about the crusades, colonialism, ne-colonialism - yet they have been waging the concept of Jihad for 1300 years. It is they who are the IMPERIALISTS and COLONISERS

#34

I'm currently writing a term paper on the history of the Islamic conquest of Egypt and yes, Egyptians have been since the end of the 7th century majority Arab. Even the Copts have slowly but surely been bred out of existence. When you think pre Conquest Egyptians think Phoenicians, Greeks etc.

In the case of Algeria, an Algerian berber may tell you he's an Arab but he's not. Berbers were convinced by the Arabs that they were Arabs as well, and since the 7th century the once rich Berber culture has slowly disappeared (some Berber nationalists are trying to bring back their language in favor of Arabic).

Has anyone else looked at the "random" link in Jimmy the Dhimmy's post, and then followed it back to its home page? This is not just any fundamentalist Islamic website. It has an, ahem, official stature.

Lots of goodies on the site. On this page we read:

A believer can never stand tongue-tied while his sacred law is being undermined or the Noble Prophet slandered.

To be fair, the sense of the passage is that words should be met with words, and violence with violence, so the Nigerian atrocity presumably would not be sanctioned.

On the download page, take a gander at the "Muslim-Christian dialogue." I'd say that the author does not have the faintest notion of what a dialogue is.

All in all, two terms come to mind from a review of this site—smoking gun, and (if word gets out and changes are made) WayBack Machine.

Speaking of dhimmitude and the desire of hard-line extemists to take over the world via terror . . .

Bomber targets Dutch Ikea stores

Bombs were found at three different Dutch stores

Police in the Netherlands are searching all 10 outlets of the Ikea furniture chain in the country, after finding bombs in three stores.

. . . "The discovery of the bombs coincides with the first terrorism trial in the Netherlands since the 11 September attacks in the United States, but police said there was no apparent connection.

"We don't believe this is a terrorist-related action," said Amsterdam police spokesman Remco Gerretsen." [Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

It's probably some mad Dutch, anti-capitalist, anti-grass, anti-free sex, bomber perhaps even a—Lutheran!

For more information call (202)342-3700
For Hajj and Umrah visa information contact
The Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia
Visa Section
601 New Hampshire Ave, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20037
Tel: (202)342-3800, Fax: (202)337-4084
e-mail: iad@resa.org
[Link: www.iad.org...]

How about e-mailing, faxing or telephoning regarding this official version of Islam. Let's all ask the royal house of Saud to explain this:

RIGHTS DICTATED BY NATURE
Rights due to non-Muslims

The term "non-Muslim" comprises all disbeliveers. They can be classified into four categories: hostile non-Muslims, non-Muslims seeking asylum in an Islamic environment, covenanted non-Muslims and Dhimmi (non-Muslims living among the Muslims and paying Jizya " tax).

**Without the Dhimmi Muslims would have no economy at all given that Muslims pay no taxes in Islamic countries.

Hostile non-Muslim have no right to protection, whatsoever. Non-Muslims seeking refuge and security in an Islamic territory have the right to full protection, and here Allah says:

"And if anyone of the Mushrikûn (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbeliveers in the Oneness of Allah) seek your protection then grant him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Qur"an), and then escort him to where he can be secure..." (9:6)

The covenantee non-Muslims have the right to holding us committed to honor the covenant we entered upon with them so long as they commit themselves to the articles of the agreement, and neither conspire against us nor slander our religion. Allah says:

"Except those of the Mushrikûn with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in augth, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfil their treaty to them to the end of their term. Surely Allah loves Al-Muttaqûn (the pious)." (9:4)

But Allah Almighty goes on saying:

"But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and attack your religion with disapproval and criticism then fight (you) the leaders of disbelief (chiefs of Quraish ¾ pagans of Makka) ¾ for surely their oaths are nothing to them." (9:12)

Dhimmi are the group most eligible for rights, because they live in an Islamic territory and under the protection of the Muslims, besides the Jizya (tribute) they pay to the public treasury. Here the Muslim Imam (ruler) has to judge by the light of what Allah revealed in all matters relating to lives, property and honor. He is also bound to observe the fixed punishment recognized among them. Last and foremost, the Leader of the Muslims is under strict obligation to provide protection to them and shield them against any sort of potential or actual harm that may befall them.

Dhimmi must be discriminated from Muslims in their attire. They are not allowed to display any abominable deed or gesture that could go in conflict with Islam such as the cross or bell.

**Does this smack of the yellow star of David or what?

Praise is to Allah, the Lord of the worlds; and peace and blessings of Allah be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his Family and all his Companions.

P.S. Observation of the above mentioned rules promotes amity among Muslims and removes all traces of enmity and hatred, moreover, the working in the light of these rules blots out sins, augments good deeds and exalts him in degrees of rank whose abides by them. May Allah render success to Muslims and again, peace and blessings of Allah be on our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon Him).

RIGHTS DICTATED BY NATURE
Rights due to Allah's Messenger (pbuh)

These rights rank highest amongst the rights of all creatures. No other creature is eligible for a higher right than that due to the Allah"s Messenger (peace be upon Him),

Allah says:

"Verily, We have sent you (O Muhammad) as a witness, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a Warner. In order that you (O mankind) may believe in Allah and His Messenger , and that you assist and honor him ..." (48:8,9)

We are also under obligation to defend his canonical law as much as we can in accordance with the situation involved. If the enemy were to use arguments and ambiguities, we would have to resort to science and counter arguments to refute their allegations and reveal their ill grounds.

**Yes, good idea refute the arguments against modernity using ignorant, medieval Islam and Islamic science not to mention logic.

Should they use weapons and guns, it is then incumbent upon us to utilize identical means. A believer can never stand tongue-tied while his sacred law is being undermined or the Noble Prophet slandered."

***

**I hereby say that this Mohammed is a false prophet of Islam a religion that promotes misanthropy, misogyny, bigotry, violence, war, genocide and destruction of other peoples, religions and cultures using the Qu'ran as a terror manual.

I expect a fatwa to be issued against me (a Western woman) so that it will cause an international incident and thus expose Islam for what it is—a violent, oppressive religion, that brain-washes its followers, and pays homage to a blood god.

**Comments, mine

#27, Freebourne asks,

Why are these people in the decadent West?

Isn't it obvious? Throughout history they have been parasites on other, better, more advanced civilizations. They've reduced the Persian Empire, ancient Hindustan, and the Javanese Empire (aka Indonesia) to Third World countries. They turned the Byzantine Empire -- once Europe's leading civilization -- into Europe's most backward nation (Turkey). They've sucked them all dry.

Now, they're looking for a new host.

Note how this page glosses over the inequalities leveled by Islam, and especially Saudi Arabia, against women!

". . .Islam sees a woman, whether single or married, as an individual in her own right, with the right to own and dispose of her own property and earnings. . . " [Link: www.iad.org...]

This is why women in Islam are treated as lesser beings because women are "individuals".

Women are denied education, bought and paid for into marriage, forced to breed like cattle, imprisoned in their homes, beaten by husbands, forced to wear the veil to ward of lecherous Muslim men, not able to vote, not able to travel alone, not able to drive, not able to work in any but a few professions, suffer polygamy, unable to divorce, have their children taken away from them in case of divorce, their testimony is worth less than that of a man.

". . .the traditions of female dress found in some Muslim countries are often the expression of local customs. . . ."

The "custom" in Saudi Arabia is for a woman to be completely covered, head to toe by a black shroud, gloves included. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it say women must be veiled!!! Yet this abomination, this portable prison, is forced upon women by Muslim men. Women take to the veil "voluntarily" because men attack them or throw acid into women's faces if they do not wear the shroud.

". . .Circumstances may warrant the taking of another wife but the right is granted, according to the Qur'an, only on condition that the husband is scrupulously fair. . . "

"Circumstances" such as a lecherous Muslim male wanting a younger wife or a "temporary" wife.

Yes, women are "individuals in their own right" in Islam—to be used and abused by Muslim men.

I hereby continue to declare that this Mohammed is a false prophet of Islam, a religion that is parasitic, promoting misanthropy, misogyny, bigotry, violence, war, genocide and destruction of other peoples', religions and cultures using the Qu'ran as a terror manual.

Here's return #100 (search noted in #6 this thread)

[Link: www.wikipedia.org...]

Link "Dhimmi" found halfway down page on return #100

[Link: www.wikipedia.org...]

Looks like its a western view, cites a few sources, some islamic, for those interested.

It appears some portion of these concepts are derived from the original islamic texts as opposed to being stated explicity. Makes sense, just as our laws are not all codified in the Constitution. Those who want to research this and other concepts will have to look at much more than just the first texts.

From return #155 (ain't this Internet great?)

The laws of social security in Islam do not exist in codified form. But they consist of the injunctions of the Quran, hadith, precedents of the 'Righteous Caliphate' and the views of the jurists deduced from the original sources through qiyas and ijtihad. In order to examine these laws of social security with reference to non-Muslim subjects of an Islamic State, one should have recourse to these sources.

Shaykh Shawkat Husayn

[Link: home.swipnet.se...]

Those who get upset at Bat Ye'or and her associate (Littman?) will have to acknowledge that these concepts are well documented in islamic writings.

Tyson #38,

So would it be accurate to say that the ancient Egyptians were effectively exterminated by Arabs?

#45, yes. Just as they exterminated the Byzantines, murdered millions of Hindus in India, and continue along the same lines in Israel and Sudan.

We cannot have the beautiful FS coming under fatwa.

I must accelerate my plan.

It is this (in part):
We should concentrate on single concepts and limit that to four or five over the next few months. The concept until Jan. 5, 2003 will be fatwa, date chosen to extend through the holiday season. (I will endure dimmytude for a while longer)
Email the following message to various organizations, islamic, western news, gov, 2 or 3 or whatever per week, to spread out the impact:

"I do hereby call for the worldwide cancellation of the concept of death by fatwa, and demand its limitation to apprehension and delivery to authorities of state. The rejection by higher authorities of the fatwa issued by Deputy Governor Alhaji Mamuda Aliyu Shinkafi of Zamfar, Nigeria, is proof that this concept is lacking adequate safeguards against abuse, as it's immediate implementation would have provided no recourse of appeal to the alleged offender. Additionally, the concept of implementation by any member of the community has no legitimacy in any modern civilized society."

Basically my plan is to concentrate on single concepts at a time and conduct media publication compaigns related thereto.

The part about apprehension is a conciliatory gesture that might help acceptance in certain countries.

Incidentally, I have found that the concept of fatwa involves much more than the issuance of death sentences, and entails a wide range of activities. More on this later, sorry, I gottsta go, I'm goin broke folks.

#47   Jimmy the Dimmy   "We cannot have the beautiful FS coming under fatwa.

I must accelerate my plan. . . . Basically my plan is to concentrate on single concepts at a time and conduct media publication compaigns related thereto.
"

(Puts back of hand to noble forehead, in dramatic gesture.)

I thank you for your generous and just offer, dear, gracious Jimmy D. You are indeed a gentleman and a scholar—as well as a man of honor—as only a Dhimmi can be. No, no—Do not attempt to make me change my mind; for it is written in the stars that I should expose the false face of Islam and bring into the sunlight the foul, misanthropic nature of this parasitic religion for all to see.

No, JD. . . It is my fate as a renaissance woman—a woman who knows. . . I shall become a Media Martyr for the cause of freedom, truth, justice and the American way! (and maybe make a couple of shekels on the side from this) I shall,(sob) remember you always . . .

(Raises fist and assumes a Scarlet O'Hara stance, while making sure the camera gets a shot of her patrician profile)

"I do hereby declare that this Mohammed is a false prophet who brought Islam to the world by the sword. That Islam, as interpreted from the 4th to the 21st century, is a religion that is parasitic, promoting misanthropy, misogyny, bigotry, violence, war, genocide and destruction of other peoples', religions and cultures—using the Qu'ran as a terror manual.

I herewith call for a formal reformation of Islam—yesterday!

Signed,

Secularia Freebourne"

Mumble aside: [Where the hell is Martin Luther when you need him?]

(Fade out. . . with music John Brown's Body playing in the back-ground. . .)

#48 Freebourne, Secularia

Then, milady, to each of us his and her own, for in this endeavor we do aim for the same, or near, stars, while each our own doth streak ever onward.

The situation in Iran.
I have been following the situation for a while. This wedsite and others is rather intresting. Note the anti-Islamic and anti-arab stance of the Iranians.

[Link: www.iranmania.com...]

There are lots of religions in the world. All (Zoroastrian, Christian, Jewish, Buhdist, Islam, Hindu, ... etc) say the same thing. Do good things, you'll be rewarded. Stay away from bad things.

It's all good, and necessary for some people to be spiritual in a personal way.

THE PROPBLEMS comes in when one group of people want to IMPOSE their religion and interpretations on everyone by force. That becomes fascism. In history, Arabs did it, Europeans did it, and now in Iran the mullahs are doing it.

We can not have a civil society and freedom of thought with political religion.

The best thing that can happen to any country or region, is seperation of religion from government. It should be completely out of power and a personal spiritual matter. One should be able to choose his/her religion freely. Religious freedom is very important and the current Islamic fascsit regime belongs to the mullahs, not Iran. Just like Europe used to belong to the Church in the dark ages. Unfortunately, Iran is in the dark ages today.