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Peaceful Religion Watch

Mon, Dec 9, 2002 at 3:33:35 pm PST

Last Friday the sheikhs and imams of the Arab world bade farewell to the month of Ramadan, calling on the faithful to think of the needy, and calling on God to “inflict his might” on the Zionists and make them booty for Muslims.

From the holy mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia:

"O God, support our brother mujahidin for your sake in Palestine and elsewhere. O God, we ask you to save Al-Aqsa Mosque from the aggressor and usurper Jews. O God, deal with the Zionist Jews for they are within your power. O God, disperse them and make them a lesson for others and booty for Muslims. O God, inflict your might on the criminal ones."

From the Shaykh Zayid Bin-Sultan Al Nuhayyan Mosque in Gaza:

Shaykh Dr. Muhammad Mustafa Najm delivers the sermon, which he begins by thanking God for "cursing the brothers of apes and pigs" until doomsday and warning Muslims "of their evil and arrogance." He cites the Koranic verse that refers to "Jews" as the most hostile. He also hails Prophet Muhammad, "the imam of the mujahidin and strugglers, who fought Jews and expelled them from the Arabian Peninsula."

Continuing, the imam says it is not strange for Jews to carry out massacres and invasions even on Muslim religious holidays. This, he adds, has always been their hostile attitude toward Muslims, who only demand their rights. He also says that it is not strange for Jews, who tried to kill the prophet, to kill Palestinians after placing them under siege, beginning with their leader. "Our leader," the imam adds, "is unfairly besieged not only by our enemies, but also by those who provide them with political, military, economic, cover."

The imam says that the United States sponsors world terrorism and practices all methods of terrorism, especially against Muslims. So what is required of us in the Holy Land and the Arab and Islamic nation is to unite and fight solidly, he says. We must rise above our differences, he adds.

The imam emphasizes the need for unity and says: "Muslims are being besieged, killed, and butchered. Our kinfolk and brothers in Iraq are being besieged. The so-called United States fabricates allegations and lies in order to wage war on them. If Muslims do not support their brothers in Palestine and Iraq, there will come a day when it would be too late to regret our inactivity. For they will swallow us up one by one, Muslim after Muslim, country after country, and seize our resources."

From president Hafiz al-Asad’s mosque in Damascus, Syria:

The imam asks Muslims as they celebrate the feast to think about the ones "displaced by imperialism and sinful, criminal Zionism" in Palestine. The Islamic and Arab nation, he adds, is "waging a very serious battle and passing through an important and critical phase, the phase of life or death. The enemies have attacked the lands, desecrated holy places, violated sanctities, and sowed corruption on earth." "Jihad," he affirms, "has become a duty for everyone who can help with his or her soul and money. Every individual must be ready to become a soldier fighting with his soul. Sacrifice of spirit is the most expensive thing for the best aim of saving the countries and freeing the holy lands from the occupier tyrants. Every rich person has a duty to spend his money as much as possible in order to supply the resistance with the modern weapons that will help them remain steadfast against the enemies and end their aggression." Arabs and Muslims have never succumbed to invaders, he adds.

"Our nation, will not be intimidated by the United States and those who help Israel openly and secretly," the imam says, adding: "Let Israel expel peaceful people from their homeland and let it drop its bombs and fire on peaceful villages. It will only face steadfastness, firmness, and bravery, as we believe in our just cause and our right to a free, respectable life."

The imam says: "Muslims and Arabs in all their countries, and the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque which is part of their belief, are called upon to rise as one man and fight with their funds and souls for the sake of freeing their countries and saving Al-Aqsa Mosque and other holy places from the tyrannical Jews."

From Shaykh Abd-al-Qadir al-Jaylani mosque in Baghdad, Iraq:

"In our jihad against the administration of tyranny and evil today, we represent faith. In its present jihad, Iraq represents faith while the United States represents infidelity. We appeal to our Muslim brothers and tell them the camp of faith is here and the camp of infidelity is in the United States. The faithful is the one who joins the camp of faith under the flag of Allahu Akbar. The hypocrite is the one who fails to express an opinion and the infidel is the one who stands with evil and tyranny. We shall triumph by our dependence on God. Come closer to God as much as you can, because victory is no doubt coming. History is full of lessons."

The imam recalls incidents from Islamic history showing how God backed the faithful with His angels in times of adversity and says God will not disappoint Iraq, the country of saints -- Imam Ali, Imam Al-Husayn, Imam Al-Abbas, Imam Abu-Hanifah, and Shaykh Abd-al-Qadir al-Jaylani. "If the clique of evil ones attacks," he says, "the whole universe will shake. The angels, the heavens, and the whole world will shake if Iraq is attacked, because our strength is from God's strength."

The imam calls on worshippers to depend on God and place their trust in God. "Do not weaken," he adds, "and do not listen to the media of evil and lies. They are not ashamed to tell lies. They have no scruples about telling lies. They tell lies unashamedly." He adds: "Let them threaten as they want and let them say what they want. We have barricaded ourselves with faith and depend on God."

The imam devotes the second sermon to a solemn prayer to God for support. He prays: "O God deal with the Americans for they are within your power. O God, shake the land under their feet. O God, fight them with your angels. O God, make their plans destroy them. O God, we ask you on this blessed hour to support and aid the intifadah people in Palestine. O God, support the mujahidin in the land of Palestine."

From the Al-Rifa'i mosque in Cairo, Egypt, Dr Ahmad Umar Hashim, the head of Al-Azhar University, supreme head of the world Muslim youth association and member of the Egyptian higher Sufi council, explains that Islam is a religion of tolerance.

After the conquering and converting/subjugating is finished, that is.

He adds that it is time for the Islamic nation to be united, and for those who claim that Islam is a strict religion to understand that Islam is a religion of tolerance. To support his earlier statements, Dr Hashim says that when the prophet and his followers won the last battle against the infidels and entered city of Mecca, he did not punish the infidels who fought against him and told his followers to call that day the day of mercy.

He says that when Islam achieves victory and its instructions spread, security prevails everywhere, even for its enemies. He also says: "You, who were unjust towards our religion, this is our religion. You who are ignorant of the call of Islam, this is the call of Islam. It is the call of mercy and bliss for all humanity. It is mercy for the entire world, with its east, west, north, and south, for Muslims and non-Muslims, and Arabs and foreigners." Dr Hashim continues to relate stories of Mecca's conquest that prove Islam's mercy towards enemies. He says that Islam with its tolerant instructions calls upon the world to understand the true Islam and to believe in and follow the prophet, as the prophet is the last messenger of God. He adds that God has ordered all nations on earth to follow the prophet so that peace and security prevail on earth. He also stresses that Islam is an international religion for the whole world.

Finally, words of relative moderation from martyr King Abdallah mosque in Amman, Jordan, where the king has told the imams to lower the volume:

The imam then calls for a generation of Muslims which believes in "enlightened" Islam rather than "fanaticism." He calls for a generation, which does not oppress, betray, attack, become arrogant, run after sedition, or get misled by mirages. He calls for "a generation whose conscience and feelings are filled with love for the higher ideals, virtues, and moral values, which the world lacks today in its international and domestic relations." He says that it was on the basis of such ideals and values that the state of Islam was established. But, before resolving the problems of the world, we must resolve our own problems, he adds.
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82 comments

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1 Athos  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 1:44:25pm

I guess that in death, both Sadat and Assad have become Jews since they launched the invasion of Israel during Ramadan in Oct. 1973.
BTW in Arab nations, what Americans know as the October War, is called the Ramadan War.

2 Crusader  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 1:48:11pm

What the [b]fuck[/b].

3 centaur  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 1:50:01pm

ahem, yes... what Athos said. Look at the bloodshed over the past four weeks (during ramadan) around the world committed by muslims in the name of allah.

4 Athos  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 1:50:49pm

Religion of Peace or of double standards? Rewrite this in the model of th VDH essay from Friday, and the cable news programmes prime time tonight would be filled by Hooper and Ibish comdemning the hate and slander of Islam. Short of Dr. Alan Keyes during his show's run, which major commentator today will raise this as part of the problem coming from Islam?

5 Athos  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 1:50:52pm

Religion of Peace or of double standards? Rewrite this in the model of th VDH essay from Friday, and the cable news programmes prime time tonight would be filled by Hooper and Ibish comdemning the hate and slander of Islam. Short of Dr. Alan Keyes during his show's run, which major commentator today will raise this as part of the problem coming from Islam?

6 ploome  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 2:24:48pm

"It is the call of mercy and bliss for all humanity. It is mercy for the entire world, with its east, west, north, and south, for Muslims and non-Muslims, and Arabs and foreigners."

my ass......!!!!

7 Amy  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 2:35:59pm

*Yawn.* What else is new? These guys need to expand their inventory of sermons.

8 zulubaby  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 2:41:30pm
O God, disperse them and make them a lesson for others and booty for Muslims.

O G-d, say it ain't so.

9 G-d  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 2:43:32pm

It ain't so.

10 zulubaby  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 2:47:18pm

Thank you G-d. I was worried for a minute there.

11 AB  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 2:56:38pm

Why are they obsessed with Jews? That's all they care about. There aren't even any Jews left in their countries.
What's with the obsession? How can hate be so well taught?

12 Jolly Roger  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 3:05:33pm

At least there's something decent coming out of Jordan...their King is at least a decent guy. My guess is he wants rid of the Palis as much as the Israelis ought to.

13 Occasional Reader  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 3:07:06pm

Zulubaby: in connection with your observation, here's a suggested addition to the imam's prayer: "Oh God, shake the ground beneath the feet of the Zionists. Indeed, shake our booty."

14 Elizabeth  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 3:08:19pm

Oh brother! These guys will never learn.

15 Susan  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 3:15:01pm

#6 ploome,

The capacity for self-delusion is really quite amazing, isn't it?

16 Phoebe Zeitgeist  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 3:19:12pm

The only way to shut these guys up is to burn all the mosques and shoot all the clerics. Make it the religion of rest in peace.

17 Annelid[deleted]  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 3:23:38pm
18 AB  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 3:24:17pm

#12 Jolly Roger ,

It is that Jordon already dealt witb Palestinians. If you never have to deal with them, you don't know how much of a hassle they can be (even to their own people).

Someone please answer me on why the muslims are OBSESSED with riding the Jews. They have no other goals at all that I can find. I'm starting to think Islam was created as a cult that wants to kill Jews.

19 Valentine  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 3:25:02pm

Ya know I wonder how these guys can listen throughout a rant that long day in an day out?

Monday:

"Allah shake the ground under the Zionists feets!"

Tuesday:

"Allah shake the ground under the American's feets!"

Wednesday:

"Allah shake the ground under my oppressive feet!"

Etc ad nauseum (or nausea whichever comes first)

20 EW  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 3:32:40pm
BTW in Arab nations, what Americans know as the October War, is called the Ramadan War.

I think that it is much more widely known as the Yom Kippur War in the US.

As for the imams, the Jordanian example shows that they will say whatever the dictator/king tells them to say. If one day there will come an arab leader who says "stop spewing this hateful tripe or else!" then these same imams will be preaching love and understanding.

21 zulubaby  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 3:33:52pm

Occasional Reader (#13)

LOL!

22 Robert Crawford  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 3:36:07pm
Why are they obsessed with Jews? That's all they care about. There aren't even any Jews left in their countries.

Let's see...

1. Parts of their "holy" books declare Jews are descendants of apes and pigs.

2. Israel is a relatively successful and modern state with a representative government and relative freedom and equality for all.

3. Theirs are failed states run by petty bastards who kill you if you look at them funny, beg for help from the successful nations, and give all the foreign aid to their cousins.

4. Other parts of their "holy" books tell them they should be the masters of the world; that all the "infidels" should be reduced to a condition we would equate with being black in the US South around 1900 to 1920 (the Klan's heyday).

5. The petty bastards running their governments keep feeding them #1 and #4, blaming #3 on #2, and generally teaching them to hate everyone not Arab and not Muslim, just to keep their heads firmly attached to their necks.

23 Q  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 3:45:53pm

OT, but this seems to be the most active thread...

I've only just now came across this post.

"Slurs"? This malignant shit gets my blood boiling. I've had my share of slurs thrown at me, but this evil putrid garbage makes me want to tear some assholes open with my bare hands.

Trolls... nazi lurkers... Ran... you there? Stay the fuck away - or better yet, bring it on.

24 davesax  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 3:50:09pm

Has their ever been a study of seritonem levels in the Arab brain? Seriously. These people's rants sound like your classic bi-polar, manic depressive lunatic. Paranoid, venemous, irrational...yet they really believe it. And it doesn't help that they're in the sun all the time, where their brain chemicals are hyper-stimulated.

I think we should drop Effexor, Prozac, etc. on these folks. Maybe they would level out. Sounds like they could use some modern psycotherapy. I mean, they're fucking nuts!

And yes, I know what I'm talking about. No, I'm not manic depressive.

In this month's Atlantic, there's a piece on Bobby Fischer (sorry, it isn't on line. But it's the issue with Kennedy on the cover), who has obviously had some sort of breakdown, and has become a professional ranting moron. You guys should check it out. I swear, he sounds exactly like the Arabs.

25 not_for_nothing  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 4:03:38pm

can't you just feel the love.

26 ploome  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 4:14:44pm

Susan..

we are dealing with mass mental illness there....

some person wrote an article about that..and i dont know where it is among the 800 links bookmarked on this fackocta computer....

LOL

27 Q  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 4:14:59pm

Re: #24

...who has obviously had some sort of breakdown, and has become a professional ranting moron. You guys should check it out. I swear, he sounds exactly like the Arabs.

I guess it's no accident as well that John "I'm Completely Fucking Deranged" Nash's lunacy ("beautiful mind" my hairy ass!) was centered around those evil J-E-W-S and their evil State. Kind of like Ranbutan's, come to think of it.

28 lip  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 4:26:15pm

What more evidence do we need? What is another spoonful of proof that Islam is by nature evil? What is being done with the mountains of evidence of its misdeeds? But listen to the cries of injustice if a muslum feels slighted. What does it say about our culture when we accept this evil?

29 ploome  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 4:47:13pm

we have lost the right to be judgemental....

we have made everything relative and contextual

we have abandoned honor...

30 Squiddy  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 4:48:44pm

A little OT but related:

A couple weeks ago a poster on this thread (see final two comments) linked to a site that enabled you to write an e-mail to President Khatami of Iran. So I did it: I sent off a quick mail to Khatami saying I supported the goals of the student protests that were underway. I was using a co-worker's computer so I used his Outlook Express. A week later he received this e-mail:

>>Dear Mr ------,
>
>>It is so typical for you cowardly infidels to send us e-mails criticizing the Islamic Republic of Iran and not even to sign with your real name thinking that we are so backward we would not see behind a Zionist pseudonym. You may think you are safe in your capitalist and degenerate Western society but the agents of Allah are everywhere.
>
>>May you see the light before it is too late for you and your family in [co-worker's address].
>
>>Ali Dai, Assistant to the Minister of Internal Security


Scary stuff, no? To think they'd research the address of an e-mail sender from a country thousands of miles away and threaten him in such a Mafia-like way. This makes the contents LGF suddenly a whole lot more real to me.

31 Barbara Skolaut  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 4:50:09pm

O-kaaay! Time for the playground defense (i.e., they started it). They declare that they intend to make the entire world Muslim, even if it takes 100 years. I hereby declare a fatwa of my own. Let's make the entire Muslim world, starting with the Middle East, Christian - and let's do it in 10 years, not 100. Maybe we can use their methods, of which the Muslim world obviously approves.

No, I'm not Christian, but fair's fair. Of course, if the Hindus or others want to jump in and convert part of the Arab world themselves, they're welcome to it. I'd invite the Jews to do it, too, but they have better taste.

32 ploome  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 5:00:43pm

Barbra....

Jews have awful taste....feh

also, for what its worth...Jews believe that righteous gentiles, who follow thw 7 noachite laws also go to 'heaven'

so you dont have to be Jewish...

33 Model4  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 5:05:53pm

If you sat through 1/2 hour+ of an American newscast you'd see many stories less important than these reports. At best you hear about it in passing on a new analysis show. Why? PC is one factor, but we're talking ratings.

It doesn't have to be sensationalized, it is sensational information, especially for a country at war. Yet we get 1-2 minute stories on the Saudi's weekly maybe-we-will-maybe-we-wont let you use your own bases game. These decisions aren't made in a vaccuum, but these sermons are never mentioned.

I'm thinking the feds have made strong suggestions the major media play ball and not play up the larger conflict, in exchange for current and future levels of press access. Failing that, I'm stumped.

34 Pat L. Robertson  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 5:06:13pm

The lib-left press calls these haters a religion of peace. My blood is so boiling that all I can say is it's a religion of poo. Lots of poo.

35 Nastification Agenda  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 5:10:29pm

The Muslim hate-clerics are taken as authorities by West-Muslims, who base their Islamic-obligations (fard) on the same GENOCIDE khutbah, that Charles posts weekly. Although, for purely strategic reasons, there are few forward-base Muslims who spew the same Islamic-hate, most adapt to JIHAD-exigencies in the West. For example, rather than utter GENOCIDE khutbah, groups such as the MSA, preach innocuous khutbah at Friday prayer (salat) followed by jumuah sessions where they denounce Muslim JIHAD targets - such as Israel, America, Russia, China and India - and solicit JIHAD aid (zakat). I know from first hand observation (prior to 911) that they promote obstruction of justice, re. the terror-zakats. West-Muslims are an integral component of the one-ummah/final JIHAD movement. They perpetrate JIHAD through finance, and by creating conditions conducive to piecemeal sharia enforcement. Again, surrogate GENOCIDE jumuah is practiced at public expense. The JIHAD subsidy costs American universities (read: taxpayers) tens of millions of dollars every year. I will post American examples of sharia subversion, shortly.

It is unfortunate that the Rap Brown (Jamil al-Amin) case was covered with spin-journalism whitewash. The American JIHADI - Muzammil Siddiqi (ISNA) - who dictated the "Islam is peace" dogma that President Bush recited, was an ardent supporter of Brown even after he MURDERED Deputy Sherrif Richard Kinchen. Siddiqi followed the standard American-JIHAD line about Brown being of exemplary character, and the evidence being insufficient according to sharia rules of evidence (in fact, Brown left a living witness, in the person of a second police officer who had attempted to lawfully execute a warrant, only to meet a hail of JIHAD bullets). Siddiqi, Hooper and the Wahabis at the American Muslim Council, openly counseled jury nullification, by insisting on JIHAD Muslim participation (read: sharia enforcement) on the jury (one independent Muslim did vote to convict). As in other cases, they pressured juridical slaves-of-allah (abdullahs) to either hang the jury, or force acquittal. In fact, at last summer's ISNA convention, they conducted a one-day session on "prison dawah" (Islamic indoctrination). That reveals both the kind of person - John Mohammed/Malvo clones - that they want to attract to Islam. They want violent punks like Rap Brown who will carry out Mohammed MURDER-sunna (example).

Although I have posted what follows earlier, newcomers to LGF will probably want to learn something about the dirty-four of American-Islamania - CAIR, ISNA-ICNA-MSA, AMC, W.D. Mohammed Ministry. These represent 90% of American Muslims, and other than Wallace Deen's haters, they are affiliates of groups linked to al-Qaeda ul-JIHAD, and other terrorist organizations. (Note: these groups distant themselves from Lewis Farakhan's Nation-of-Islam, because the NOI' leaders practice prophecy).

Before he was tried and convicted for MURDER, Brown, admitted in Bankruptcy Court, to living in a bigamous relationship (he took sharia "marriage" vows with a teenager, when he was in his late-fifties). Before his conversion to the Arabic tribal-cult, Brown was a prominent American black racist. In an infamous Cambridge, Maryland speech (July 1967) he said, "Black folks built America, and if America don't come around, we're going to burn it down." Those JIHADI credentials put him on the Bosnian Task Force, which successfully lobbied the Clinton government to put American troops in Bosnia in defense of Muslim ethnic cleansers (Roman Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox Christians are prohibited from building churches in Bosnia, and their oppressors are protected by American guns).

Having succeeded, Brown was made dictator (amir) of the Islamic Shura Council of America (this defunct organization was to serve as the provisional government of the Islamic Republic of America). Effectively, Brown was a quasi-Khalif (successor to Mohammed) with absolute authority over Muslims, including the power to order JIHAD against the American government. Before he became dictator, Brown was Vice President (at times, Acting President) of the American Muslim Council (a Wahabi front group, for which Bush's human cockroach friend, Grover Norquist, is a paid fiduciary). The "burn-America-down" JIHADI, also lead the Shura (Islamic clerical council) of the ISNA, a front organization for Jamaat-i-Islami of Pakistan, which is currently facilitating attacks on Americans in Afghanistan.

The Islamic Shura Council of America was the creation of the ISNA-ICNA, AMC, Wallace Deen Misinstry, and local imamates. On the authority of his Arab tribal deity - "allah" - Brown committed one MURDER and attempted another Islamic MURDER (kafir-kushi).

On the same day-of-infamy (Sept. 17, 2001) that the George-the-Fourth/Norquist suicide entity recited JIHADI subterfuge - "Islam is peace" - Brown spoke before a Fulton County Superior Court claiming that "allah" wanted him to be there for a higher purpose, and claimed that he was victim of an alleged conspiracy against Muslims, "Maybe my being Muslim and imprisoned by you, my lord (to the judge), has given me an opportunity that I may be offered as a substitute to allow you to avert your (American government) planned carnage (of Muslims). If your trying me and killing me satisfies your taste for Muslim blood and spares the life of Muslim women and children, then I bare my chest to the sword. I do not complain about my situation. If it is the decree (qadr) of allah. If allah is not displeased with me, then I am pleased with what allah has decreed for me." (Note: the American JIHADI terrorist and black racist - Ujaama - made tapes at England's notorious Finsbury Park mosque (read: terror-center) in which he praises Brown as a "Muslim leader" who was targeted by the "kufr.") (Note: Muslim perjury and obstruction of justice, in a secular court, is an Islamic sacrament)

Brown' accessories to kafir-kushi, agitated for his acquittal, claiming persecution in the alleged oppressor states, which for some wild reasoning, allow immigrant and citizenship status to human vermin of this sort. In issue 8b of AL-JIHAD (journal of the "supporters of sharia, of the terrorist group, Hizb-ut-Tahrir) they had this to say of Brown (al-Amin): "There is (sic) attacks on our leaders from every corner. And it is the Muslim laymen who suffer, as well as their families. We are living in DAR-HARB (house of islamic-war targets), and in times of ignorance. And this has no doubt come as a sign for us that we are not following Islam all around the world."

"We find that the Jews have landed to spread corruption. When they come into a land, you will find that corruption at first begins slowly, then escalates until they are handed over power with others out in front. This is the ways of the Jews, and it has not changed since Rome at the time of their plot to kill Isa (Jesus)."

"The Jews have always killed prophets, and religious teachers and leaders. They have always been the puppeteers of governments, as most of us are all too familiar with the story of how they went to the ruler of Rome to demand the execution of Isa. And now, with their successful plot to silence another religious leader, Sheikh Omar Abdur-Rahman (first WTC attacker), they have embarked on a campaign to silence one of America's biggest threats in the communities they have made their home. The threat is not actually a person, but a way of life which was taught to us by the greatest prophet of all time, Mohammed ibn Abdullah (slave-of-allah). The threat is al-Islam (Islam itself) and the person who is capable of waking and uniting the people in America who the Jews fear the most, is Imam Jamil al-Amin (Rap Brown)."

"Imam Jamil al-Amin is a grassroots person who has all the qualities the Jews are most vehement in destroying. So, as Bill Clinton, America's president plays into Israel's hands and is forced to bow to Jewish demands, the head of the FBI, a Jew, and the Secretary of State, another Jew, have aided in the attempted conspiracy against Imam Jamil al-Amin."

The above mentality is governed by the fact that no Muslim is allowed to obey secular, or human law, other than as an instrument for the advancement of Dar-Islam (house of Islamic aggression). As it is in Saudi Arabia, their true constitution is the unholy Koran.

Muslim aggressors, aided by puppets, fiduciaries, beneficiaries, collaborators and infiltrators, are on the advance in America. Islam is war. The only difference between the overseas GENOCIDE clerics and the dirty-four American JIHAD fronts, is: the former is the rear-base, while the latter minds the JIHAD front. Islam is war, and it is on the advance. DO NOT RETREAT!

36 Erik W  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 5:11:07pm

#30 Squibby, I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

Your post inspired me to send an insulting email to Khatami (khatami@president.ir). (He lives on "Palastine Ave., Azarbayejan intersection" and they accuse us of imperialistic ambitions!)

#27 Q : maybe I didnt understand your post, but are you saying that the famous John Nash of the "Nash Equillibrium" so diligently studied in Economics 101 was an anti-semite? Is this from the movie? (I saw the movie on an airplane without headphones.)

37 Lively  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 5:13:43pm

Ploome
I think you are so right on the "judgmental" thing. You can steal, commit adultery, lie, kill.....but if you are judgmental, that's just unforgivable in today's elite society.

38 Joseph DeVito  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 5:22:17pm

"O God, disperse them and make them a lesson for others and booty for Muslims. O God, inflict your might on the criminal ones."

Figures... they would even take the fun out of a 'booty call.'

39 Squiddy  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 5:30:33pm

#36 Erik: Thanks for your support. Let me know if you get any threatening e-mails too.

40 Joshua  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 5:44:53pm

Re #36:

maybe I didnt understand your post, but are you saying that the famous John Nash of the "Nash Equillibrium" so diligently studied in Economics 101 was an anti-semite? Is this from the movie?

Nash apparently has made some antisemitic comments during his life; this issue was not mentioned in the movie A Beautiful Mind but it was mentioned in the book of the same name by Sylvia Nasar, upon which the movie was based. In fairness to Nash, he attributes those comments to his schizophrenic delusions; keep in mind that he also thought he was the emperor of Antarctica among other things.

See, among other sources:
[Link: www.eonline.com...]

41 dhimminomore  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 5:54:38pm

by "booty" they mean they can enslave the Jews like they do the blacks of Sudan, who are also resisting their jihad. see iabolish.com for photos of jihad slaves

42 Freebourne, Secularia  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 6:06:32pm

Ya know, they seem to be toning it down.

I believe that the prayers of the Muslims will be answered. ;-)

"O God, inflict your might on the criminal ones." (Amen!)

"destroy the enemies of religion" (Amen!)

"The imam then calls for a generation of Muslims which believes in"enlightened" Islam rather than "fanaticism." He calls for a generation,which does not oppress, betray, attack, become arrogant, run after sedition, or get misled by mirages. He calls for "a generation whose conscience andfeelings are filled with love for the higher ideals, virtues, and moralvalues, which the world lacks today in its international and domesticrelations." He says that it was on the basis of such ideals and values thatthe state of Islam was established. But, before resolving the problems ofthe world, we must resolve our own problems, he adds."

This Imam from Jordan seems to "get it."

". . . If Muslims do not support their brothers in Palestine and Iraq, there will come a day when it would be too late to
regret our inactivity. For they will swallow us up one by one, Muslim after Muslim, country after country, and seize our resources . . "

Just what "resources" would those be??? Zam Zam anyone?

". . . Come closer to God as much as you can, because victory is no doubt coming.. . ." No doubt whatsoever! :-D

". . .History is full of lessons." Lessons that Muslims never seem to learn.

". . . We prayed to you as you ordered us, so respond to our prayers as you promised. . . " Muslims never seem to understand that God is answering all of their prayers in spades. The infidels are being destroyed. Mirror watching is a good thing.

O God, get them to finally SHUT UP— stop blaming others—get off their asses and work as hard as the sons of "apes and pigs" and the lovers of apes and pigs—for it is within your power. Amen!

43 QueenEsther  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 6:31:53pm

#11  
Why are they obsessed with Jews? That's all they care about. There aren't even any Jews left in their countries.
What's with the obsession? How can hate be so well taught?

How is hate taught so well? Well, back home in the US, Muslims are the fastest-growing segment of the population that home-schools their kids.
So, in addition to the garbage they learn in their mosques, Muslim children are being fed the same anti-Jewish bile at "schools" in America -- as they are across pan-Arabia.

And I'm sure that the American Muslim Council will cry "racism," when these mini-jihadis flunk their college entrance exams. Then again, they can always fall back on the family business.

Any transcripts of what the mullahs are spewing in American mosques?

44 Take A Break  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 6:42:07pm


Dennis Miller on Israel

> >
> > "For those who don't know, Dennis Miller is a comedian who has a show called Dennis Miller Live on HBO. He recently went on a rant about the situation:
> >
> > "A brief overview of the situation is always valuable, so as a service to all Americans who still don't get it, I now offer you the story of the Middle East in just a few paragraphs, which is all you really need.
> > Don't thank me.
> >
> > I'm a giver. Here we go:
> >
> > The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about
that: There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention. Before the Israelis won the
land in war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, and there were no "Palestinians" then, and the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians" then. As soon as the Jews took over and started growing
oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation."
> >
> > So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" any more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths until someone points out they're being taped. Instead, let's call them
what they are: "Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life
And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death."
> >
> > I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about
this, then:! Adjacent Jew-Haters." Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more thing. No, they don't. They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two
years ago at Camp David. But if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living.
That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel.

They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course -- that's where the real fun is -- but mostly they want Israel. Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it -- for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that
they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth, you know that's really saying something.

It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about the great history and culture of the Muslim Mideast. Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since
Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.

Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five million Jews.

Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches,everyone will be pals.

Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, ! but what about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea? Oh, that? We were just kidding.

My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the numbers. Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it. Can anyone picture the
Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite
to themselves? Of course not. Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab State into the sea?
Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible.
Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting. No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death.

Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that with vital operations coming up against Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as
possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a roomful of supermodels who've just had their drugs taken away.

However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of losing moral weight.

We've already lost some. After September 11 our president told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the countries that supported them. Beautiful. Then the Israelis, after months and
months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day) start to do the same thing we did, and we tell them to show restraint.

If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we would all very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be done with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and east of the Jordan. (Hey, wait a minute, that's actually not such a bad idea . . .
ooh, that is, what a horrible thought, yeah, horrible.)"


> > Please feel free to pass this along to your friends

Dennis Miller on Israel

45 QueenEsther  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 7:02:37pm

#44   Take A Break

Hi - as much as I like Dennis Miller, this "rant" was mis-attributed to him, and has since been zinging that way all across the 'net. I'm told its actually the work of Larry Miller, another well-known comedian, who is a Member of the Tribe.

Just here to help :)

46 GKarp  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 7:06:43pm

My favorite part is the spittle-spewing invective against the "so-called United States." Is the Imam saying we are not united, or not really states?

#44- Take a Break - That's hilarious, but it is from the mind of Larry Miller, comedian and columnist for the Daily Standard, not Dennis. To wit:

[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]

47 EE  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 7:11:18pm

In Martyr King Abdullah Mosque in Amman, Jordan, the imam had words of sheer moderation, calling for "a generation of Muslims which believes in 'enlightened' Islam rather than 'fanaticism'". Wow! I can say "amen" to that! And long live the Hashemite monarchy!
Might it be in the interest of the rational world to give more economic help to the oil-less partly-desert Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan? However, maybe this should be done very discretely, very quietly, maybe almost anonymously if that is possible, so the radical militant fanatic Islamist crowd there does not use it as a rallying cry to overthrow the moderate Abdullah II. If the US is considered the Great Satan by the Islamoloonies, we might not want to publicly kiss a friend. But people there may eventually want to know where the peace dividend is.

48 Silla  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 8:13:05pm

Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million Arabs.

Or better yet imagine if Ishmael had never been born.

49 ronnie schreiber  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 10:12:01pm

Genesis 16:2 on Ishmael

a wild ass of a man with his hand against every man and every man's hand against him

As Rabbi Kahane put it, read this verse and know that God wrote the Torah.

50 foobar  Mon, Dec 9, 2002 10:38:22pm

How many mosques are 'the furthest' mosque?

If the aqsa (furthest) is in Morocco, then how can the mosque in Jerusalem be the furthest or the aqsa?

Al Aqsa Al Maghreb (Morocco) = Morocco, The Kingdom of the Furthest Mosque.

Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem?

Don't you think there's something fishy about this?

The manufactured 'identity' of the Trans-Jordan Arabs has been crucially predicated on their connection to the Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem from which they claim Mohammed ascended into Heaven. But Mohammed was never in that mosque.

Much of the premise for military revolution and the negation of the State of Israel rallies around their illusory connection to that mosque and the 'conspiracy of the Zionists to destroy it.'

There is no evidence that the State of Israel plans to destroy that mosque, or any evidence that Mohammed was ever in, at, or on that mosque, or any evidence that it is the 'aqsa' (furthest) mosque. Or any evidence of anything.

This is like a form of group insanity. And it is very sad to watch. These people or youngsters who are blowing themselves up are destroying themselves over a complete fantasy.

King Hussein's son has a very nice op-ed piece in The Washington Post. It would be beneficial if he could assume a leadership role. But these people who are caught up in this fantasy may be too far gone to listen to him.

51 Nastification Agenda  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 12:24:31am

Foobar #50:

Actually, I am using this reply as an opportunity to reply to other concerns raised in LGF posts. My open agenda is: ANTI-JIHAD.

"Mosque" is an amalgam of Arabic words for "prostration" and "place."

Although Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Koran, segments of Mohammed-hearsay (hadith) refer to it as the site where Mohammed claimed to have ascended to heaven, after flying from Mecca, on a winged-donkey with a parrot's head.

Mohammed began making his desparate ascension claims, during the Meccan period, and after he made a conversion drive to Taif in which he did not make a single convert.

The confabulated ascension claim was bought by Arabs who were mindful of the colossus-deity, used in the Babylon' Marduk-cult.

When Mohammed's infiltrators (al-Muhijiroun) approached the Jewish village of Yethrib, with an intent to sell Mohammed as the last prophet of Judaism, they told the Jews of the ascension claims, and of their prostration towards Jerusalem (qibla).

After the Jews rejected Mohammed's god-hearsay and prophet claims, the infiltrators took over Yethrib, which the prophet re-named: Medina.

After the takeover of Mecca, the qibla direction was changed to that village, which had long served as a pilgrimage spot for religious eclectics.

So many Muslims were aware of Mohammed's failed attempt to convert to Judaism, as its "last prophet," that a conquest of Jerusalem was necessary in order to build a mosque on Temple Mount, in order to preserve the integrity of Mohammed's specious claims.

Mohammed's reference to the "farthest mosque" (al-Aqsa) of Jerusalem as the place of ascension to Islamic-heaven (janaat), is based on his desperate need to both gain followers who would deal with his Meccan enemies, and seek Jewish support for same.

There is no record of members of any faith having ever prostrated on Temple Mount, although prostration was practiced in the Marduk, slave-deity cult of Babylon.

Mohammed did not live to see the seizure of Jerusalem, although he carried out mass exterminations of male members of Jewish tribes, and eventually ordered the expulsion of all Jews (and Christians) from the Peninsula (Jazeera).

The tendency in academia is to whitewash any fact that might offend Muslims by revealing the depravity of the founder of Islam, and his obvious concoctions. Muslims, and the few Western academics who even discuss the subject of the Jewish historical record of Temple Mount, reinforce denial dogma which attributes the ruined temple structures on the hill to other cultures - Canaanites for example. Muslim fanatics also attribute the Jewish prophets to some unknown race: the "hanifs." Jews are living testimony to the original agenda of Islam, and it is a matter of status defense for learned Muslims and their academic accessories, to work for the elimination of the Jewish record. One of the motivating factors in the current one-ummah/final-JIHAD campaign, is to create a global structure conducive to the GENOCIDE of every Jew on the face of the earth. Unless the JIHADIS - which includes the governments of Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh and Pakistan - are stopped, they will site and use weapons of mass destruction against Israel (etc) very shortly.

Those Western academics who reinforce Islamic dogma, do so because they treat Israel's security measures as contraventions of the United Nation Charter (in fact, Israel has always fully complied with said Charter), and they view Arabs as victims of the West. In order to make redress to Arabs for the "Crusades," which were conducted to re-capture titled land, academia-central props Islamic fictions as fact. Hence, the myth of a "golden age" of Islam, squelched by Western barbarians.

Anyone who saw the PBS documentary, "Islam: Empire of Faith," can see first hand denial of the booty motivation of the evil horde of Muslims which destroyed much of the ancient world. (The Koran is the only nominal "holy" text, which prescribes the booty-order, or "division of the spoils") PBS' consultants pronounced serial falsehoods, without rebuttal, and did so with a sort of enthusiasm, that a child reveals when he or she is bragging to a parent. The pathological victimization of Muslim aggressors, is a sort of intellectual prostration. Aggression-deniers are a class of neo-scholastists who reinforce politically correct dogma. Academia has been debased to the point where the works of enlightenment scholars such as Francis Bacon and Rene Descartes, are offensive to the Modernist fictionaries.

In THE TREASON OF THE CLERKS (1927), Julien Benda wrote of the Modernists, "I believe that many of those who I am accusing here of betraying their ministry (search for truth) - that disinterested activity which should be theirs by the mere fact of their being historians, psychologists, moralists - would reply to me as follows if such a confession did not destroy their influence: 'We are the spiritual militia of the material.'"

"Among those who ought to show the world an example of disinterested intellectual activity and who nevertheless turn their function to practical ends, I shall also mention the critics. Every one knows that innumerable critics today consider that a book is only good insofar as it serves the party which is dear to them, or as it manifests 'the genius of the nation,' or as it illustrates a political doctrine in harmony with their own political system, or for other reasons of the like purity...Here is a perfecting of political passion, the whole honor of which must be given to the MODERNS..."

Jean Francois Lyotard, and other Post-Moderns have rejected the Moderns, who followed from the post-Kantian, Marx-Bentham-Gobineau-Comte-Wagner pantheon, and reject "meta-narrative" thinking as treason to the "republic of learning," which formed from the secularism, methodological science and materialism of the Enlightenment.

The Modernist academics in political science, history, anthropology faculties, accept fiction as worthwhile work-product. That is why most studies of Islam, and profiles of the bogus "prophet" of Islam, are garbage. Eventually, there will be a reaction against the parasitic majority.

52 Mike Morley  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 1:16:58am

The Sheik asked Allah to make the "Zionists" "booty for Muslims?"

Reminds you of a Zappa album, doesn't it?

Remember Sheik Yerbouti?

53 Dutch vigilante  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 1:31:12am

"Bloody Luna Ticks", the Friday Night Comedy Show of the Cargo Cult.

Yet another example of Dutch education going down the drain: "I think it is good for a woman to have this position" (Miss World 2002).

54 Bangladeshi  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 1:46:11am

Hmmmmmmmm ................. anybody would wish their enemy to have mentality like you guys. Since these type of thinking will bring nothing but destruction of society where it is popular.

55 EE  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 2:22:57am

#54 Bangladeshi
Moderate Muslims will be among the first victims of the militant Islamists. Don't you realize who is responsible for the violence in Bangladesh, who attacked the movie theaters? The anti-jihad resistance will inevitably include liberal Muslims and everybody who is victimized by the jihadi fanatics -- which is already much of the world.

56 Red Herring  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 2:23:44am

By ROBERT BLOCK
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

DURBAN, South Africa -- Mohamed Suleman Vaid's career as a money courier for suspected terrorists might still be going strong had he not stuffed $40,000 in South African currency down his underpants.

On April 25, 2001, Mr. Vaid, his drawers weighed down by almost five pounds of cash, tried to cross South Africa's frontier with Swaziland but was stopped when a policeman noticed him "walking awkwardly," according to South African police records of the arrest. After a quick search, police found Mr. Vaid's stash and another $90,000 in rand jammed into the pockets of a specially designed bodysuit worn by his wife, Moshena, underneath a long black hijab that covered all but her eyes.

57 Dutch vigilante  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 2:32:08am

Making these idle threat again, o Bangladeshi One?

58 Gil  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 2:59:01am

Two comments on booty. I have gun and my wife knows how to shoot. We are free and always will be.

When I try to imagine a batch of Islamofascists trying to enslave a modern woman, I can only imagine some skinny Sheikh on the floor clutching his recently kicked groin.

The average emmancipated woman would go through 20-30 of these bozos a day. I can think of a second degree black belt gal who can deck anyone with one kick- she doesn't care how big the guy is.

So my rejoinder to these Imams is bring it! Right now! Anytime any place!

59 Wayne  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 5:38:24am

I just recently returned from vacation in Kansas (where my wife is from). While there I visited a place called the Cosmosphere (in Hutchinson), which is a terrific aerospace museum. Part of the tour takes you through the entire history of rocket science development (beginning in WW2 with German research of the V1 & V2).

Anyways - some of the displays were old newspapers that had the headlines of notable events. In one of the newspapers - dated 1960-something I think - one of the other headlines on the front page was something like, "Explosion in Palestine kills dozens."

Doesn't give me hope that any of this will end anytime soon.


Wayne

60 Robert Crawford  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 6:07:18am

Does anyone read posts from "Nastification Agenda" anymore? Or have his screeds gotten so dense, rambling, and jargon-packed that I'm not the only one ignoring them?

61 smudge  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 6:11:30am

"Oh God shake the ground under the infidels, and open up a can of Zam Zam whupass on them."

62 zuhow  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 6:24:15am

#60

I quit reading him, while i used to enjoy his rants in a "car crash- cant look away" sort of way, he's gotta keep his posts under 500 words!!

63 orson  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 6:30:45am

#60...

Nope, your in a club.

64 ralph phelan  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 6:46:55am

"Finally, words of relative moderation from martyr King Abdallah mosque in Amman, Jordan, where the king has told the imams to lower the volume:"

That last is the key, isn't it.

How much money do we give the Egyptians again? And can anyone remind me why?

65 Dorothy  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 6:47:21am

The "Al-Aqsa Mosque" that is supposed to be so extra-special precious to Islam is --

A Christian church, built in the Byzantine era and called the Church of St. Mary of Justinian.

An Arab conqueror took over the church, stuck a dome on top, renamed it a mosque -- and every since it has been just so holy holy holy holy to Islam . . .

The historian "Bat Yeor" (Daughter of the Nile) has written about the Muslim program of taking over the cultures and holy places of other peoples and claiming exclusive right to them.


For centuries, they even banned any Jew from entering the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron, where according to traditions Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebecca, and Jacob and Leah are buried. They built a mosque over that site also, and thus made it so holy to Islam that Jews were forbidden to enter.

Now they are also claiming the traditional Tomb of Rachel as a Muslim holy place.

66 Jolly Roger  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 7:06:29am

A little more back on-topic here, AB mentioned way above that Jordan has already "dealt with" the Palis. So could someone clarify the situation w/ regard to Jordan?

Here's the facts as I understand them: King Abdullah II, good king that took over for his dad Abd. I--fought against Israel, made an actual peace later. Abdullah II, educated in the West, Oxford I think Married a "Palestinian" woman, and a looker too, from Tulkarm I think. Although maybe she's old enough to have been born in "Trans-Jordan" ? Abd. I died a few years ago, cancer I think, and up until death was receiving extensive treatment here in the US.

As for the Pali situation, Jordan's population is 70% Pali? But they're sort of non-entities. Jordan won't grant them citizenship, and they still live in camps near the Israeli border. So is this the case, and if so, why? Why hasn't Jordan assimilated them, seeing as one could argues that they were living on Trans-Jordanian land before the wars anyway...???

I imagine one explanation would be that it's in order to keep them restless so they'll fight against Israel, are there any more theories out there?

67 Nastification Agenda  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 7:12:59am

Robert Crawford #60:

Your preference for short-takes vs longer commentary, is your business. Although you are certainly in the majority, that leaves a minority that I am not going to ignore.

I remember Charles saying something about several hundred new visitors to his site, every week. At least, some of these are probably interested in the al-Aqsa controversy, and the logic-chopping which poses for academic discourse these days.

Don't you agree that spin-journalism/research is a real problem, given the West-Muslim shariazation campaigns? You, etc. really should take a second look at the Rap Brown (Jamil al-Amin) case.

What do you think civilized people need-to-know?

68 James  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 7:14:09am

Actually, Jordan is the single Arab country that will give citizenship to Palestinians. Many Palestinian Arabs who live on the West Bank actually hold Jordanian citizenship. Abdullah of Jordan's wife (Queen Rania) is a Palestinian.

However, it is correct that Palestinians are not exactly fully equal in Jordan. The army and the government is mostly dominated, for example, by Bedouin and not Palestinians.

Yasser Arafat tried to pull in Jordan exactly what he later pulled in Lebanon. A revolt. His PLA began to challenge King Hussein too much and the result is known as Black September. King Hussein's army killed 10,000 Palestinians in September of 1970 and expelled Arafat and the PLO to Lebanon, where Arafat proceeded to foment the virtual destruction of Lebanon.

69 Jimmy the Dimmy  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 8:28:26am

#66 JR
This article describes the battle between Hussein and Arafat. I skimmed through it, and seem to recall that Hussein destroyed a town and everyone in it to quell the insurrection, not quite described as such in this article. He then expelled Arafat. This set Jordan apart from its neighbors and towards alignment with the West.
Such as it is.
Also see post #68
[Link: www.onwar.com...]

Back on topic (more or less);
In addition to Jordan, Saudi Arabia appears to be trying to get the imamas to tone down the rhetoric.

[Link: www.arabnews.com...]

I saw the first report a month or so ago but could not find it again.

70 Pig-Dog  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 8:53:20am

To Robert Crawford #60.

Your personal dislike of Nastification Agenda, clearly, is your business.

Therefore, keep it to yourself.

Instead, challenge Nasti Ag. on his research and ensuing arguments, if you think you can.

Pig-Dog

71 liberalhawk  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 10:02:11am

wow what surprises?? the natiest stuff is from Iraq,Syria, Saudi and Gaza.

The moderate stuff is from Jordan.


Form Egypt, where Mubarak is running scared of an anti-american (but still quiet) street we have extremism, but not as violent as elsewhere.


Amazing how what comes out of the mosques matches so well the policies of the regimes in question, huh?

thanks for the info charles

72 Dutch vigilante  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 10:03:30am

#67 Nastification Agenda:

I think your posts are interesting, but then I probably don't have the attention span of a fruitfly. That's not to say that I can follow every bit, for instance I am not familiar with Gobineau nor do I understand the reference to the composer Wagner, instead of for example Nietzsche, in this context.

73 hanna  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 10:07:34am

There's foreshadowing of a anti-Israel campaign in an above part of one of those speeches about Islam claiming jews...

"tried to kill our prophet."

That is a direct message about how to try and win over Christians in the US and elsewhere to abandon Israel's right to exist. (Christians hunted jews on that premise and arabs still think christians believe that version of the bible.)

One can be grateful, in that sense--that the arab world thinks of all christians as gun-toting right wingers. (That's why they want them on their side--more ammo)

One should be grateful of the muslim radical ignorance because of the amazing religious revolution that has taken place in many American christian churches since the evangelical sweep of the 1980's. (In part as a response to some thinking there was too much politics in the church in the 1980's)

One change related to above is that American christians now see a correlation between europe's wars and troubles and their attitude towards jews. Rightly or wrongly--many evangelicals feel like europe was lowered before america as punishment for hurting God's first people.

Instead of being angry at jews for "killing their prophet" therefore; american christian groups have called for forgiveness by God (FOR THEMSELVES) which is one of the strongest tenets of their faith.

Secondly, Christians (like those who publish "Image" magazine are now interpreting the bible in the same way the abolitionists did--aka using the passages to be parables or philosophic teachings to be reinterpreted, and borrowing passages from other religions to see if those passages mirror their own in any way.

Christians have moved away from the "every word is bible" to the possibility that the bible is not being interpreted correctly (or wasn't written down correctly from god because man has always been flawed) and that one must reevalute passages like "turn the other cheek."

In some evangelical churches philosophy of how to interpret the bible is now a nationa passion and the term "turn the other cheek" is now heavily interpreted as "turn the cheek to turn the vantage point."

Meaning, if an enemy slights you--you SHOULD look in the other direction; because you may see a way out of a situation you've never seen before or you may see a vantage point away from violence that wasn't previously seen. (Violence never being a first option. Note how Bush follows this tenet. It's a sign of obeying god.)

Naturally, the profound realignment of thinking in the American church is ignored by the press; but a reevaluation of the teachings of the bible back to the abolitionists expansive interpretations is a wonderful event. It is truly historic in some cases.

The revolt in the Catholic church was a precursor of this; but all american churches have made peace with Israel (and their own past evils) in order to return to a more philosophical--and therefore, more popular church. (Popular with both man and God.)

Israel can fully expect Arafat to visit Christian churches like crazy from now on while european churches (who serve a godless atheist europe) suddenly sprout up on the news to sign anti-war petitions and make the BBC cameras with regularity.

This is a new "campaign" coming. It's pure PR.

Why it will fail is even more beautiful. Not only does the press and europe not know about the american christians new teachings--but most Israelis don't know that christians are now reinterpreting the bible in a new way for the first time in over 150 years.

Thank god for the press writing off christians and not seeing any value in philosophy, religion, or religious doctrines--because the arab world will waste years on this PR campaign giving Israel breathing room to find a new "vantage."

Let them spew! What they, or even the american press knows about religions other than their own could fill a thimble. If there is a god--he works in very mysterious ways.

Imagine, a full religious reevaluation of the world's oldest book and not one person caught it. (They didn't catch it because liberal journalists know squat about religion or how it's affected history, and second--the press lives to put only radical right wing nuts on tv to make the whole religion look bad.)

Read the above passages from an arab view--turn the vantage point and you'll see I'm right. Arabs don't see american christians as obeying god and american christians are terrified of disobeying god and winding up like europe.

It's of no use to this thread, but I think it's interesting. I was shocked to find out there was a "movement" of philosophy behind support for Israel.

It's interesting. It won't bring me back to any church; but it is interesting.

74 superfly  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 11:29:31am

#60 I read the short ones and skim the longer ones sometimes, but Nasti lives in a fantasy world where there are no unintended consequences to anyones actions so skimming is about all I can usually handle.

75 ploome  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 2:49:54pm

Nasty seems to have huge amount of hard facts.

His presentation is a little forcefull...:o)

but it seems accurate...

76 AB  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 3:57:21pm

#73 hanna ,

That was awesome.

77 Yehudit  Tue, Dec 10, 2002 6:02:41pm
most Israelis don't know that christians are now reinterpreting the bible in a new way for the first time in over 150 years.

I wonder if this is a result of all those years of interfaith dialogues, and the Jews taught the Christians how to make midrash.

I had been reading the Bible all my life--in English, Latin, and Greek--but always with Christians, either Catholics or Protestants. When Christians read the Bible, they tend to look for an authority, a priest or minister or biblical expert, who will tell them how to interpret the passage under consideration. Then, the interpretation delivered, they are anxious to move on to the next passage. Jews treat the Bible like a comfortable old couch (it is, after all, their family history). They don't care about moving on and they are willing to discuss and debate a given passage endlessly. Out of this elaborate give-and-take a different kind of authority arises: a shared authority, a genuinely communal authority.

I also wonder if the Everett Fox translation of the Torah and the Bill Moyers Genesis series had any influence. When you leave intoning King James and simplified "Bible stories" behind and read the Hebrew scriptures with some sense of the original power and meaning of these stories, you see the Bible with fresh eyes.

It's a relief to me to hear that Christians are making midrash. That's how you reconcile the sanctity of holy texts with the flow of contemporary life, and avoid both a rigid arid fundamentalism and a syncretic faddish mish-mash. That's why Judaism is not only alive after 3000 years, but still creative and compelling.

Now if we can get the Muslims to do it.....

78 growler  Wed, Dec 11, 2002 5:30:56am

Long, but funny:

[Link: gedankenpundit.blogspot.com...]

look for the Dec. 10 entry

----

Looking over the last three months' worth of Friday sermons over at LGF I can't help but be struck by the, how shall I say, repetitiveness of it all. It makes me wonder whether the creation of Friday sermons might be mechanized in some way. I offer the following snippet of Java code as a modest example...

79 Lawrence Stiles  Thu, Dec 12, 2002 1:22:01pm

I believe it was Calypso Louis Farraken whe called Judiasm "a gutter religion." A classic case of the pot belaboring the kettle its hue.

80 Tony Davies  Sat, Jan 4, 2003 5:11:41pm

Im really going off religion in a big way, not sure about God anymore, BUT from the point of view of a person who used to strongly believe in the existenc of God, Id like to offer my opinion.
Islam promotes a faith of beleiving in a universal Muslim world where we all live in unity as long as you believe, the problem is if youre a non believer, then Islam would swiftly become very intolerant of people like me who are finding their faith slipping.
I have stopped attending church, but I dont fear people banging on my door dragging me back. I would be definetely an infidel if I were a practising Muslim due to my "infidelities" against the Holy Book.
But this doesnt frighten me because I was taught that the one and only God is tolerant, patient, forgiving and All Pure without any darkness in him.
Now Im not sure if there is a God, in which case all Muslims cause is in vain, except to start wars and make everyone else HATE them.

81 NTropy  Sat, Jan 4, 2003 7:07:20pm

#60 Robert Crawford

I was wondering the same thing.

Nasti, I admire your passion but you don't have to vent your speen on every post. I know you don't but DANG it sure seems like it.

82 NTropy  Sat, Jan 4, 2003 7:54:00pm

Hanna & Yehudit

I'm a bit skeptical of either of your ideas. I like them :-). I'm just a bit skeptical.

Jews taught the Christians how to make midrash.

Christians have always done this. Oh there was a definite authority that developed known as the Catholic church but systematic theology has always happened even within the confines of Catholicism.

Your quote is interesting Yehudit. Maybe it's because I grew up during the Jesus People movment or maybe because I've never been a member of a "mainstream" denomination (Quakers aren't generally considered "mainstream") but every church and teacher I have ever had has always encouraged me (and their respective congregations) to search the scriptures individually. While there may be some Jewish influence, I think you may be giving Judaism just a bit too much credit.

The online resource most easily available to me also includes links to the Hebrew. More on that source can be found here.


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