Good intro Charles! DEATH TO THE BBC!

I wonder how many of the Western commentators and pundits who criticized the Miss World Pagent organizers for offending the sensibilities of Mulims or the newspaper reporter who made the comment about Mohammed and the contestants will offer any criticism of the BBC.

“The BBC must die! Down with their confused and unfounded guesswork!”

Priceless.

"are calling for the deaths of all BBC reporters involved in the documentary"

And, uh, how is this bad?

That's just about the size of things, Charles; it's okay for the BBC to show a film which speculates on Mary's 'virgin' birth, and Catholics and other Christians are expected to be tolerant and understand that it's an 'academic' exercise, but if the same program were about Mohammed and say, his love of 'little boys' and his true predilections etc., speculating on how 'human' Mohammed was, there would be mass rioting such as Nigeria could never HOPE to experience. But Christians of all stripes are expected to be tolerant of 'intellectual curiosity and speculation' about their faith.

In truth, too, it would be Catholics who would be most offended about speculation on the Virgin's birth since the other denominations accept it as an article of faith but not a CENTRAL part of their faith, whereas with the Roman Church, it is the central tenet of their belief.

But having said that, Roman Catholics and Protestants alike are intelligent enough to be able to be offended by an intellectual idea, without making others pay for our displeasure when someone plays fast and loose with our beliefs. Our faith is far too strong to be upset by mere speculation by others.

Thus one must wonder how truly strong is the Muslim love of their faith if they can so easily be shaken by words such as were said in the Nigerian newspaper about the possibility of the Prophet taking as a bride one of the Miss World contestants or other speculations about his life and proclivities as a man?

The fact is that as someone pointed out at the time, if everything we have heard about the Prophet (or even half of it) is true, he would have found those women too old to be his brides, though he may well have beded SEVERAL of them.

But God help me if I were to propose such a thing in Arab News or anywhere else.

Which leads me to wonder: if Christianity is older than Mohammedism or Islam, what did the Arabs practice as a religion BEFORE the Prophet came along? Just curious!

if Christianity is older than Mohammedism or Islam, what did the Arabs practice as a religion BEFORE the Prophet came along?

Answer: Christianity. Judaism. And the majority were pagan.

#5, Elizabeth, asks: "...what did the Arabs practice as a religion BEFORE the Prophet came along?"

"When Almighty Allah sent His last and greatest Prophet, Muhammad (s.a.w.), mankind was immersed in a state of degeneration. The messages of the past prophets had been distorted and ignored, civilization was on the decline and humanity had slumped into an age of darkness, with disbelief, oppression and corruption rife everywhere. The whole world presented the gloomiest picture ever of human history. Hence the Qur'an's terming of this chaotic state of affairs as 'Ignorance', or to put it exactly in the very words the Holy Book has used; 'Jahiliyyah'."

In other words, things were much as they are now.

they decapitated a Pakistani BBC stringer with a rusty crucifix.

British Catholics poured out of churches after evening mass, smashing store windows, overturning cars, and attacking anyone of Middle Eastern appearance

Ain't this the kind of stuff we don't like ? Aren't they stooping to the level of the enemy here ?

Beautiful Elizabeth, and thank you Avi.

Ain't this the kind of stuff we don't like ? Aren't they stooping to the level of the enemy here ?

P is for parody.

It would have been more fun not to mention it but I figured someone else would have.

#10

Huh ?

Serious question.

Charles,

Thank you for always making me laugh.

...arresting as many as 5,000 Catholics and opportunist soccer hooligans.

LOL!

There is only one solution to this hideous outrage:

Mandatory registration of all rusty crucifixes!

If you have any doubts, note that the word "gun" does not appear in the article, and only the police are using "bullets" of any sort - a clear sign of Britain's astounding success in gun control!

;)

The kicker is in the chant. Anything longer than a phrase or sentence and you'd have to stop and agree.

The business about Christ being the bastard son of a Roman soldier was a favorite rant-topic of Adolf Hitler.

Congratulations to the BBC - they just won another "Lord Haw-Haw" Award for Excellence in Recycled Nazi Propaganda.

#5 Elizabeth, well said.

A Nigerian newsapaer publishes one innocuous sentence (based to a large degree on historical fact, if you think about it), grovels for several days like golem in samwise's rope, and yet we still witness a mindless murderous mob (straight from their weekly friday hatefest at the mosque) that takes 200 lives---bystanders cheering as woman and children are pulled from their cars and beaten, some burned alive---burns 20 churches to the ground, injures hundreds and leaves thousands homeless (oh, but some muslims were among those killed and injured; really, the Christains fought back, what nerve---self defense, what a concept), and this whole scenario glossed over ("sectarian violence") at best or completely whitewashed and sickeningly and hypocritically rationalized ("it's all the fault of that sexist beauty pagent and that stupid female columnist") at worst by a the vast majority of the "mainstream" media. Yet the BBC shows something that has got to be as offensive as offensive can get to Catholics (not one myself), who are in the meantime spinning in the midst of their own disturbing internal problems (and every catholic I know has expressed outrage and genuine pain over what these sick priests are doing... compare that to, oh well, never mind....) and any vocal but nonviolent criticism of the BBC will surely be condemned by the "mainstream" press as, as, as ....well now I'm too damn spent and have lost my faculty for language as I am too upset to write and this is much longer than my usual little insignificant LGF post. Words fail me. God I am so immensly upset. I am so upset. Happy thoughts.... Charlie Brown.... Christmas..... Baseball.... Happy Thoughts.... Beer... Simpsons.... Happy.... Beer.... Rolling Stones... Happy....

Elizabeth #5

Exactly right. As an Orthodox Christian, I look at events like this and ask, what was their purpose for broadcasting this piece - particularly at Christmas time? It can only be to generate controversy and offend. Had they done it to demostrate why we believe that Jesus was the Christ and the Son of God, I would not object. But, it seems that this was a portrait, so I do take offense.

We Orthodox and Catholic Christians and accustomed to events such as this. Most of us consider modern society to be largely antagonistic to our beliefs and have learned to live with that. Certainly, we will not be rampaging throught the streets.

FYI (this is not to preach, but only provide info and understanding): We consider the teaching regarding the virginity of Mary (we call her Theotokos) to be important in establishing that Jesus was the Son of God and had a dual nature, fully God and fully Man. We believe that God chose this as a means of telling us who Jesus is.

orson: I always forget that my excessively dry sense of humor can be missed. Yes, it's a parody -- follow the link at the top of the article to see the real Catholic reaction to the BBC documentary.

I am new here. I knew about the reaction from here.

I'll be busy scraping egg off'n my face for a bit. Carry on......

Well, the link didn't work, but the article was on CNSNEWS.com. Talked about how upset the documentary made the RCCers.

I moderate a Baptist website, and our RCC guests, while they can be pretty confrontational, I don't think any one of them would ever flip over my Geo Tracker.

That's why I was appalled.

centaur #16

Its ok, I understand and agree.

Thanks.

BTW: I believe that most of those Christians were either Orthodox or Catholic.

Which leads me to wonder: if Christianity is older than Mohammedism or Islam, what did the Arabs practice as a religion BEFORE the Prophet came along? Just curious!

you laugh, but remember the case of the Pakistani teacher about a year back that was arrested and tried by religious court because of his assertion that before he recieved his prophecy from allah, mohammed wasn't a muslim? I'll dig up a link and post it...

Elizabeth (#5) - Although I like Avi's explanation better, from what I've read, they were pagans - sort of like the Aztecs, who kind of liked blood sacrifices.

Obviously things haven't changed much.

It might be a bit off topic, but a friend of mine, a former Canadian gov't intelligence type, just published a book about Islam's need for a period of enlightenment, a renaissance...

amazon link

I hope that link works. It's an interesting read, in the light of what gets talked about here...

Great riff, Charles!

Unlike Islam, Christianity preaches loving one's enemy, turning the other cheek, humility and tolerance. That's why Hitler hated it so much (as did Nietzsche) - they saw it as weakness, a religion for slaves. Christianity's violent expansionist period is long over, although during the Middle Ages it wasn't too healthy for Jews or other non-Christians to dare to criticize Christianity.

Judaism's warlike period has been over for millennia. When's the last time you saw Jews rioting and killing people to avenge perceived insults to God or Moses, Abraham, Isaac or Jacob? The Jews always knew the worth of Torah and, frankly, didn't give a damn what a bunch of uncivilized ignoramuses had to say about it.

Islam, on the other hand, is still an ultra-aggressive belief system in which violence is a perfectly acceptable means of defending and spreading the faith. I don't know if that's because it's a relatively new religion or whether aggression is inherent in the religion and/or its practitioners. Judging from recent events, I suspect the latter, but I'll freely admit that I'm no expert.

#25 Amy and others

Most people might know that islam holds Jesus as a great phophet. But not as many know that islam doesn't accept the New Testiment's account of the life of Jesus. The koran has it's own version of who Christ was. For instance, moslems think he didn't say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." This should be obvious since mohammad was into this sharia thing with stoning people and cutting off limbs and heads. Nor would he say "love your enemy." Jesus is obviously a moslem in the eyes of islam (yeah I know the timeline and so do they) and so Jesus must agree with mohammad on all things.

It is very similar to how they rewrote some of the Old Testiment stories. Islam is a mimic religion, but they twist everything to promote their own primative violent tribal concepts and put themselves at the focus. They also believe that Christ was a direct decendant of Ishmael through Mary, which lends him credibility to within islam. Obviously this was all just made up when the koran was written.

So what I am saying is that while this BBC documentary rewrites what the bible says to fit it's own purpose, so does islam.

Amy #25: If you look at the foundational documents (Old Testament, New Testament, Koran), you'll find that the Koran is the only one of the three that uses victory in battle as the proof of it's correctness.

Elizabeth, #5: Bravo! Well said! The very worst thing that happened to Christianity was the entrusting of secular power to its head: perhaps the first few popes were good men, and there were probably good reasons at the time, and it may have worked great for a while, but power is honey that attracts flies, as well as being a corrupting force. I have found that faith burns brightest and whitest in the weakest and most powerless congregations, while it is faint and dying in congregations catering to the powerful and influential.

Media coverage of the event in Britain and abroad has skewed decisively in favor of the rioters, with many editorials urging their readers to consider the centuries of oppression Catholics have suffered at the hands of the English. Most dramatic of all was Independent columnist Robert Fisk, who called a press conference to express his solidarity with the rioters before attempting to nail himself to a cross.

The day's events were punctuated by a statement from Pope John Paul II, who, despite his advanced age and physical frailty, had strong words for the British government. "O God," said the Pontiff to the ululating throng below, "shake the ground under Tony Blair's feet. Shoot lightning bolts up the Queen's ass. Destroy your enemies the Presbyterians, the sons of pigs and monkeys."

When questioned about his remarks afterward, the Pope replied, "I got a right to be hostile. My people been persecuted."

What did Muslims practice before Islam? Allah worship. Click link for details. It ain't what you think it is. Quite pagan. Male deity.

#26 grape. I attended a meeting with Daniel Pipes two months ago who pointed out that most Saudis over the age of 50 do not even know their own birthdays. Like Muhammed, Islam is largely a religion of illiterates. Ever try to READ the Koran? Yeesh.

Draw your own conclusions about what Islam claims concerning its pre-history and present territorial claims.

Usually one of the first things a child learns is his/her own birthday.

#27

Got to disagree with you on that one. The Old Testament has several passages where victory for the Israelites over "the nations", especially when badly outnumbered, is seen as proof that God favors his Chosen People.

That being said, the Jews were satisfied to be The Chosen Ones and leave everyone else alone. Our friends the Muslims seem to feel that they won't be chosen by God unless they eliminate everyone else. Kind of insecure if you ask me.

#30 Aaron
I can believe that about older moslems not knowing their age or even birthday. Islam keeps track of years purely by the moon, so a year is not 365.25 days long. The new year actually slips about 11 or 12 days per year. Each month starts on the new moon. Ramadan or your birthday could occur in any season. Sometimes Ramadan is in the summer, sometimes in the winter. Our calendar has a lunar component (month) as does the Jewish calendar, but we have the brains to correct the year to be an average of 365.25 days. Seasons are important enough to keep them aligned in our calendar. It is quite a bit easier to have a purely lunar calendar because the new moon is easy to see. The solar year takes some skill to determine.

Got to disagree with you on that one. The Old Testament has several passages where victory for the Israelites over "the nations", especially when badly outnumbered, is seen as proof that God favors his Chosen People.

That's not exactly accurate. In the Old Testament victories are not asserted as proof of God's favor. He is presented as the cause of victory.

Here's the kicker: He is the cause of military losses too, of which there is no lack of in the Old Testament. In other words, God is the cause of everything.

#28 NC

That was well done and very funny, especially the line about the lightening.

Good parody Charles :-)

The day any fundy tells me what to laugh at or otherwise is the day I get unamused in a uniquely British manner.

(any fundys reading - the last time was 1939, and we're just about there..so don't push it)

#26 grape,

Thanks for the info - I know nothing about the specifics of Islam, mainly because there are many other things I'd rather spend my scanty free time on, such as learning Hebrew, reading Torah and commentaries and playing backgammon on line. :-)

Excellent Story, Charles. Definitely one that will be e-mailed to friends. Reminded me a bit of the British comedian Eddie Izzard's routine about Anglican (Church of England) fundamentalists - You have tea and cake with the vicar, or DEATH! - Hoards of protesters in sensible shoes and Sunday-best hats throng the streets scaring all with their chanting of "Tea and cake or death!"

Totally off topic, (except for the comedy) I love the little phrases you put on the banner of LGF. My personal favorite is "He's got a head on him like a rabbit!" - taken, I believe, from the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band's song "We Are Normal"(And We Want Our Freedom). May I suggest another line from the great Bonzos? In the song "Mr. Apollo" dear old Viv Stanshall, in his best he-man voice, thunders out "Wrestle Poodles - And Win!!" - I'd like to see that on the top of LGF one day.

Charles, now that's a compliment!

I'm insane for Eddie Izzard. The guys at Virgin tell me that he's there often. I am far from star-struck (hate them all actually), but I would love to see him in the real. He is genius.

Paul of Arabia, which Izzard are you? :-)

#28 hilarious. The mental picture of Fiskie on his crucifix (with blood dripping into his eyes from the Crown of thorns) is too funny for words.

#26 grape,

I've always thought of Islam as resembling Christianity and Judaism the way that the "parallel universe Enterprise" resembled the real Enterprise on the original Star Trek.

Remember the episode where Kirk & Co. find themselves on the "barbaric" Enterprise where the paraellel-universe Kirk gets promoted to captain by killing his predecessor?

That would be Islam's relationship to Christianity and Judaism. The same, but oh so very different :)))

#38 - Zulubaby
I'm Surreal Izzard! (No surprise there - Magritte and Dali make great screensavers!)

Thanks for the lekka link. Ach, shame, but Eddie's good -I saw him a few years ago in a West End play about the American comedian Lenny Bruce - he was good, but seemed to spend half the play totally naked. Still, the missus enjoyed that bit!

Apologies for the feeble attempt at South Africanish - When I am working tomorrow here in Arabia, I'll think of you sipping a Castle, reclining in a bikini next to the pool then slapping another festive Boerwors on the braii. Happy Christmas.

Photios wrote:

Certainly, we will not be rampaging throught the streets.

Speak for yourself, Photios! This utterly humiliated mackerel snapper has declared a fishwah on the Beeb and will be packing her large collection of rusty crucifixes and picking up her plane ticket to London shortly. (I think I still have my first communion veil somewhere - I will be wearing it in lieu of a hijab and swinging my incense holder when I confront the British infidels. The incense will certainly do them in:-)

What worries me is that I will be searched at the airport. Well, I'm guess I will have to find a Middle Easterner to carry my crucifixes on board. After all, his chances of getting searched are much smaller than mine are.

That parody was hilarious, if somewhat dark.

(The darkness being caused by the Shadow in the East, to borrow a Tolkienism.)

Give me Izzard or give me death!

Jamie Irons

When questioned about his remarks afterward, the Pope replied, "I got a right to be hostile. My people been persecuted."

NC, baby, meet me in Vermont and bring your trousseau...

I think I still have my first communion veil somewhere - I will be wearing it in lieu of a hijab and swinging my incense holder when I confront the British infidels.

Oh, fuck, the idea of a Catholic jihadist is truly scary -- you know that scene in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom where the guy's still-beating heart gets ripped out of his chest? Calflicks practically invented that.

Yes, it's a parody -- follow the link at the top of the article to see the real Catholic reaction to the BBC documentary.

Hmmm. I haven't seen the documentary in question, but according to the breakpoint.org article:

In floating the rape theory, the program relies on an account by a second-century historian, but notes that the historian was probably part of an anti-Christian campaign. [emphasis added]

Well, I understand why mainstream Christians (not just Catholics) would be offended by the claim that Jesus not only had a biological human father, but that the dad wasn't even Mary's husband. However, if the program explicitly acknowledged the possibility that this claim was a slanderous fabrication of the 2nd century, then it would appear that the Roman Catholic bishop mentioned in the interview is merely a whiny bizzitch who likes to hear himself complain.

Throbert, you are woefully mistaken as to the identity of that portrait. It is none other than Robert Fisk, gorssly underappreciated Savior of Mankind.

Throbert:

Yeah, I always wondered about those Sacred Heart paintings. Who on earth first got the idea to show Jesus exposing his heart? The NT is full of miracles, but not once does Matthew, Mark, et al ever mention Jesus roaming around Judea showing off his innards. The print in my grandma's house showed the heart on fire - Our Lord was obviously in need of some Pepcid AC.

Really, when you think of some of the tales recounted in Lives of the Saints, or 1001 Nasty Ways to Die - St. Lucia with her eyes on a platter, St. Lawrence getting Bar-B-Qued by the Romans, St. Peter getting crucified upside down - it's amazing we're not Jihadis.

Paul of Arabia (#40)

LOL! Perfect! I love the South Africanisms :-)

I'm a little jealous that you've seen Eddie live. What's the problem with him being nekkid? ;-)

NEWS FLASH:
Massive protests turned into riots after Jews in Haifa took to the streets to protest the airing of "Knight Without a Horse" throughout the Arab world. Aided by plain-clothed paramilitary forces, mobs roamed the streets beating Arabs and looting Arab shops late into the night.

One rioter commented: "The show defames Theodore Herzl and other prominent Zionist leaders. This is unpardonable slander to our country and the Zionist principles for which it stands. We demand the blood of the shows producers and leading actors."

Spurring on the crowd, agitators shouted, "Debase our history and die!" "Down with anti-semitic lies!" and "Defend our heroes!"

Donna V. #41

LOL. Perhaps I'll reconsider and fly to London with you. Perhaps my (very slightly) mediterranian features will get us through. Also, I have some unused "church" incense that needs to be burned.

BTW: Please email me re; the 10th or 11th.

I hope you, and everyone else at LGF, have a wonderful Christmas, I will be going (tomorrow) into the wilds where there is no internet or telephone, or even cell phone reception - 20 miles to the nearest place to buy a newspaper. I will certainly miss LGF while I'm gone (only a few days).

#28

Friggin' brilliant...best damn comments section in the blogosphere.

Erik , # 50

You over-played it, my friend.
The statements those jewish rioters hypothetically made are real, the Egyptian series is anti-Semitic propaganda. On the other hand, Muhamad would take for wives the winners of the pageant, or at least their younger sisters, for that matter.

So please, as Muslims kill people for imagines offences, let us not equate our criticism of Arab propaganda with their perceived "grievences".

Unfortunately, it would take something as wacked-out as Charles describes to get the world's attention about how far off the beaten path today's Islam has wandered.

Charles, great bit!

My only misgiving is this,

The individuals who should be getting this, won't.

Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year to all the little bloggers out there!

What's really sad is that in similar instances of British liberal media/artists assaults on Jesus, it has consistently been the Muslims (to their credit) who jumped to his defense the quickest (since Jesus is considered a prophet in that religion), and TV shows, etc. have been withdrawn because of THEIR complaints, not those of Christians.

I was just in the National Cathedral (Episcopal) in Washington, DC. In the Gift Shop, were books such as "The Religion of Star Trek" or "The Religion of Bart Simpson". Liberal Christians have no clue what their beliefs are, if any. Go in a Catholic bookstore and you will get a much more coherent picture of the faith of the latter Church.

I am so sad, my holiday is ruined.
I thought this was an actual news report.
Oh well.

Merry Christmas everyone.

See !!!???!?!? I wasn't the only one fooled.

#56

Liberal Christians have no clue what their beliefs are, if any.

Very true. Many of the mainstream denominations in America have been turned into Christianity Lite™ through full acceptance of neo-orthodoxy. I know I'm straying off-topic but it just breaks my heart.

"Liberal Christian" is an oxymoron.

#39 - Susan

Or -

The Star Trek crew fleeing the parallel Earth where the Borg invaded and won, thinking; "Yeesh! Lets hit another parallel universe.....It can't get worse than the Borg!!"

But the Earth their spacecraft pulls up to is a wasteland. Their scans show a population of a few billion....but the wastelands show signs of collapsed cities everywhere. "Overpopulation"...the Vulcan science officer mutters. "My projections show they got up to 67 billion before it all went to what you humans call Hell in a Handbasket. Only a massive breeding explosion, where women are kept ignorant chattle spitting out 12-15 babies each explains the rapidity of the collapse. Humans!"

The Shuttle heads down to the North American continent. Everywhere, they see collapsed skyscrapers and bridges. The technology that permitted building such edifices has collapsed. Each habitation cluster consists of squalid brick and mud buildings, a magnificent temple, and a palace - equally magificent, surrounded by troops.

The away team puts down in one such location. The smell of burning dung from cooking fires is everywhere. Hooded veiled woman and their savage-looking, emaciated 8-13 children run furtively through the streets...occasionally harassed by bearded men with whips. A "thunk-thunking" sound, with moans, then muted chants or cheers are heard from the center square. They see a man buried up to his waist, along with a woman...being pelted by rocks, near death. The chants become louder and clearer.........."Alllluuuuu Akbar! Alluuuu Akbar."

The Captain motions his away team back to the Shuttle. The Vulcan scientist officer looks at him quizically:

"A primitive Earth religion called Islam won out here and established a global Ummah under Sharia. They killed or enslaved all opposition. There is no one left to fight them. They will never venture into space again, never advance past the medieval world their so called Prophet was intent on creating, and succeeded in doing here. This planet's toast. Time to move on".

On board the Enterprise, the Captain rubs his face. "But what bugs me is that they somehow defeated a civilization far advanced from theirs....look at the collapsed structures - the derelict satellites - the vandalized art and signs they made it to the Moon. What did the advanced civilization do....just lie down before the Islamic people? Allow their poison to spread unchecked where the planet was once blooming? Damn, the Borg may be souless, but they at least try to advance......this...this..."

"Ah, forget it. Helmswoman....Warp 6....get us the hell out of here. Engage!"

Don't look now, but someone has posted this satire in a thread on Al-Guardian's talkboard, and some of the multi-cultis thought it was true!!!

Speaking of documentaries and virgin births:

Does anyone know where I can get a video that shows suicide bombers in heaven being pleasured by 72 female Wahhabists with small breasts? I'm a pornographer, and I'm thinking of making my own film that features Hannan Ashwarbi and and Yasser Arafat's donkey with an explosive strap-on. Please e-mail me.

Thanks.

#28

Thanks for the laugh! Made my day.

"Don't look now, but someone has posted this satire in a thread on Al-Guardian's talkboard, and some of the multi-cultis thought it was true!"

Got a link? I could use a chuckle. :)

#65, Hope this works. Previously when I've tried to post links to that Talkboard, it hasn't been successful. But here goes:

[Link: talk.guardian.co.uk...]

Aha, it worked!!!

66

Got it! Thanks.

#63 - actually the joke's on them. Some have argued that "72 houris" actually refers to "white raisin", since it is used in the context of food and drink.

May I cast the first stone?

Well, on the East Coast, it's just a few minutes after midnight - it's Christmas, when Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists unite to celebrate the birth of our Lord Sol Invictus.

;)

#15 Glen W. demonstrates the danger of ignoring Godwin's Law. It wasn't Hitler that we have to blame for the Roman soldier story. #46 Throwbert McG. has it about right. Actually this nasty lie was spread by the Synagogue of Satan. You can Google on "Yeshua ben Pantera," if you must Hey, it's all in the distant past and we're buddies now, so let it drop.