I can agree with just about everything the author says except this:

The antiwar demonstrations are truly noble.

Not the ones I've seen.

I agree with the article wholeheartedly. The only problem with the latest anti-war demos however is that they are hardly noble in nature.

So why, in all of these demonstrations, did I not see one single banner or hear one speech calling for the end of human rights abuses in Iraq, the removal of the dictator and freedom for the Iraqis and the Kurdish people?

This question has been asked a lot lately, and it is a fair one. But the answer is obvious. America is a reasonable country. Our leaders listen to the opinions of others and often are swayed by them. Sadaam Hussein on the other hand could care less what people think. Protesting against Sadaam would be like spitting into the wind. What good could it possibly do?

It is precisely because we are a good and reasonable nation that these people see some point in protesting against us. Sadaam on the other hand is a ruthless despot and no amount of protesting will ever sway him. So we are the one's burned in effigy, not the tyrrant.

That's the ironic price of virtue.

Noble?

This was my verbal encounter with such nobility over the weekend.

True story, sadly. Excerpt:

"After a brief summary of his academic background (oh, it was quite a list of paper deeds), he addressed me in a barely disguised German accent: 'I don't see how someone who can't read French and German newspapers can possibly be informed on this matter.'"

Protesting against Sadaam would be like spitting into the wind. What good could it possibly do?

I think the point is that no one even thought of it. It doesn't "go without saying" that they are against Saddam when they are making his case for him. That's why when we mockingly say "Gas Kurds, Not Mumia!" as if that was their position there's at least a kernel of truth in that. Good intentions pave a certain yellow brick road.

Welcome to NYC

I hear that you can really piss the protestors off by calling their anti-war demonstrations "peace rallies". For them, semantics are more important than reality 24x7, and a "peace rally" sounds like something wimpy which smells of patchouli oil and sandalwood.

An "anti-war demonstration", on the other hand, sounds serious - something with somber looking vegans and a "Black Bloc" that's ready to party. Not at all like the reenactment of long-buried potty training traumas that it actually is.

***

I liked the article, with the exception of the statement:

The United States is an unchallenged world power and will survive its enemies. It can afford to be a little more patient.

No, unfortunately we can't afford to be more patient. Delays at this stage of the game would just give Saddam more time to play chess with Blix, and further endanger our long term survival.

It has to be particularly galling for Noam Chomsky that one of the prominent voices of the East Timorese independence movement is coming out against saving Saddam Hussein from President Bush's war (in Chomsky's view) "to control the second largest oil reserves in the world". And a he's Nobel Peace prize laureate?, even.

I suppose since Ramos-Horta reportedly no longer sees Marxism as the answer for his people, Chomsky wouldn't be too surprised that he's become a tool of the United States' global hegemony. :)

That was supposed to be an ironic ™ (trademark symbol) not a ?, goldarnit!

But don't you people get it? The eeevvviiilll Australian Imperalists MADE him say those things. They threatened to make him watch Crocadile Dundee I AND II...

Iron First,

Ha, well, I was honestly so stunned I don't think I had enough blood in my arteries to lift a finger.

But I don't know, man, if a professor falls in a restaurant and no one is around to deconstruct him, does he still feel the pain?

the Diablogger. A remarkable story (and very well written, too). My kid is going to school there next year (groan). If you stick around, then there will be two people in their right mind in Gainesville. :)

And remember the wise words of another Horta:

NO KILL I

I don't entirely agree with Mr. Ramos-Horta's sentiments
(especially on the nobility of the peace demonstartors) but his column was a breath of fresh air after Regis Debray's excreta on Sunday. It's interesting how Diablogger's German professor perfectly reflects the smugness and scorn of Debray, i.e. only an educated European can come to the correct conclusions on such important issues as peace and war, no need for input from the gun happy cowboys. But it was the Europeans who spent a better part of the 20th century killing and enslaving each other in the name of imperialism, communism, fascism and the master race.

No no no, the real issue is that Bush = Hitler and wants oil. It's Bush who is oppressing the Iraqi people with his oil. That's right, the billions of dollars he gives to them in exchange for oil. Evil I tels ya, EVIL!!!

/sarcasm off

:)

Not only did I have to suffer through Debray's screed reading the Sunday NY Times, but the LA Daily News had the gall to reprint it today - with the same lamo partial truth about Debray in the credits - totally missing the fact that this waste of oxygen is an Che Gueverra butt boy.

The sad fact is, too many European academian's and elitest really believe this crap...the same way so many of Hollywood's idiots believe the PR crap about how great and influential they are. It's amazing how many socialists and pseudo-communists think that they are in the .05% of the population that will run things if their side wins. Guess that's what makes them useful idiots.

Ex-Python Terry Jones: New Addition To The Idiotarian (Flying) Circus

# 19- Evan-

Me thinks Mr. Jones may be karmically sentencing the U.K. to having Big Ben be blown up by a fully loaded 777. They clearly don't quite get the picture as of yet...

How can a man who can successfully write a complete sentence (punctuation included) be so lame, so lax, so obviously willfully uninformed as to write such misleading dreck? His is a horrible analogy- I can only conclude that he is either hopelessly clueless, or purposefully devious.

Yes, let's ridicule the entire situation, Terry. Loser.

Waaay OT here, and maybe the Blogosphere's already circulated this one, but I saw a precis of this poll in yesterday's NY Sun...

Ranbutan eat your heart out. Excerpts:

71 percent of Americans believed that the Palestinian Arabs "should not be given a state" because the Palestinians had not fulfilled President Bush's conditions for creating a state, "such as fighting terrorism, stopping the promotion of hatred in its media, ending the encouragement of murder in its schools, becoming a democracy, and respecting human rights."

61 percent believed that "the goal of Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority is the eventual destruction of Israel," while 19 percent believed that its goal "is to have a small state living in peace alongside Israel."

77 percent of Americans said that "the United States should stop giving the Palestinian Arabs $150-million" in aid each year, while 12 percent favored such aid.

51 percent of Americans believed that a Palestinian state would be a terrorist state, while 25 percent said that it would be a democracy.

I suspect the last figure would be higher if not for Bush's expressed intention not to let them have one until they've grown out of such things...

But it's all due to brainwashing by the Zionist media, eh?

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

re: 23

Just what I needed: another steaming donkey turd from al-Guardyan. Give this guy a cardboard cookie.

Just what one would expect from Al-Guardian. Humourless.

Ramos-Horta is the darling of the Left in Australia, so either these remarks will piss them right off, or they will ignore them completely.

[Link: www.etan.org...] indicates that it is one of the few states to protect US troops from the ICC. Presumably the left will describe East Timor as being controlled by the USA, as a country that can be bought on eBay or something.

East Timor is the only piece of foreign policy (as opposed to domestic policy) where the left and the Islamists disagree.

I feel bad about our (Australia, US, etc.) support for the Soharto regime, especially consideirng what happened with East Timor. I wonder why Australia didn't support independence earlier, but considering how pissed off some Indonesians are at Australia's intervention (it may have contributed to Bali), even though all we did was prevent genocide and enforce the results of their ballot, makes me wonder what would have happened if we had tried to intervene earlier.

I wonder how long it will be before a lefty claims Ramos-Horta works for the CIA or Mossad, and/or it's all about oil.

Ramos-Horta's suggestion is unworkable. We cannot keep up the pressure on Saddam for very much longer. If we don't fight now, then everyone will start losing interest in Saddam. It happened over and over again in the past 12 years. And the next time we thought about him would be after another devasting terrorist attack on the U.S.

"The United States and other Western nations contributed to this tragedy. Some bear a direct responsibility because they helped Indonesia by providing military aid. Others were accomplices through indifference and silence. But all redeemed themselves."

But all redeemed themselves.
But all redeemed themselves.

Christ, I'm an atheist but this says it all about the difference between us and them.

I remember the Timor Gap Treaty (divided the lucrative oil areas surrounding Timor between Oz and Indonesia) signed by Oz with our good friends in Indonesia (sarcasm on). It was a national disgrace. Selling the East Timorese down the drain to the benevolent Muslims - and this WAS lives for oil in the true sense.

Transmigration of Muslims to become the majority, death and repression of the East Timorise followed in quick time. Democracy - not a chance - welcome to ROP land you misguided Catholics.

The cultural relativists had a great time explaining why it was a good idea that we should not upset our new friends by pointing out that they acted like barbarians.

Pilger, for once, was on the right side of the argument.
Hatred of the West (Oz and US in this case) trumps even Muslims, sometimes.

After 25 years of shame Oz lead the successful movement (with logistic assistance and political muscle from our allies in the US) to free East Timor.

But all redeemed themselves.
But all redeemed themselves.

Then came Bali (I cry for of my 88 countrymen murdered by these psychopaths). But we were the cause of taking the Muslim land of East Timor and for that we deserved to die (no redemption here).

Pilger nearly turns himself inside out trying to explain why 88 of HIS countrymen deserved to die because their country did what he'd advocated it should do for years. I won't give a link because I'm too mad. Look for yourself under imbecile or traitor.

I don't agree with everything Ramos-Horta says but his is a reasoned comment and should be required reading in our schools.

This coming war has deep issues that the marching idiots don't see. One side believes in redemption by good deeds the other death of innocents to achieve their sinister ends.

The marching idiots often accuse the US of having done the wrong thing in the past by assisting the Shithead in Bag Dad. It may have been the wrong thing to do (but they were beating the shit out of each other in the Iran/Iraq War - and who could resist helping them help themselves to get their 72 raisins) and IF it was the wrong thing to do surely the coming attack must be a redemption in the sense expressed so well by Ramos- Horta.

Not to split hairs, but...the statement was:
"The antiwar demonstrations are truly noble."
demonstrations

I could go far enough to say that perhaps the act of demonstration in a free country is noble. Or perhaps merely having the right to demonstrate (and choosing to exercise it) is noble.

Yep, they're annoying, but the exercise of rights is usually admirable, at least in theory.

#31 Abby. But it isn't that noble. It takes no courage to march down the street in san fransisco protesting war. When your face dogs and hoses and bullets and tanks when you protest for a just cause it is noble, like Tianamen square or in the south protesting jim crow in the sixties.

In America and other free countries there is nothing noble about protesting. It is no big deal. Exercising rights is not noble when there is no real risk involved.

Scary

I recommend using this screen to mess with this one. Just a thought.

Now this is what the world community should be saying. What the hell is wrong with all these other countries. Is it me, or is it that most of the countries that support us are countries that within the last 10-15 years have gained their independence. These people understand the meaning OF FREEDOM.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH EVERYONE ELSE???

I think that people are afraid of the terrorists. I think that these smaller countries will not support the war because of fear of terror uprising and reprisals within their borders.

Think about it. It does make sense. Why else would they oppose this war? Why else would they NOT WANT SADDAM OUT OF POWER???

I mean really, what is the UN (aka the League of Nations) going to do about this? Answer: NOTHING!!!

Look at what happened in Rwanda. The African Holocaust. We are ALL guilty of doing nothing while millions of innocent africans were murdered, raped, etc...in the early to mid 90's.

I am sick and tired of these people bending over backwards for these terrorists. That's it. The Bush Doctrine should be enforced to the furthest corners of the planet!

If you aid, harbor or finance a terrorist or terror cell, etc...you will be seen as a terrorist as well and you will be destroyed. I can't take this anymore. PEOPLE WAKE THE HELL UP!

How many times do I have to say this...

WAKE UP

HELLO
What is wrong with you people!

This is not about being racist. This is about SURVIVAL.

Why can't you people see that...(refering to the wacko jacko liberals in this country).

*note: there is nothing wrong with being a Democrat. There is something wrong with being a Liberal.

WAKE THE HELL UP!

Andrew B

Ramos-Horta is indeed a leftist,
and he cannot avoid genuflecting in that direction to a degree.
But he surely knows that the overthrow of tyranny is not the only way that E Timor resembles the War Against Terrorism.

We the West (And to my shame also Australia in particular) acquiesced in the handing over of a Roman Catholic East Timor to a Muslim Indonesia. The crushing tyranny that was imposed there was Jihad-inspired as well as militarism. This is the aspect of the occupation that our media doesn't talk about even today.

The resentment that the Islamicists felt towards Australia, and that led to Bali, is a direct result of the fact that we interfered and prevented them from completing their divine mission of crushing the unbelievers unto submission - Forcing them to accept dhimmitude.

Nevertheless, once a Muslim controlled land - always a Muslim land. Just as Spain and Greece still belong to Islam if you think like bin Laden, so does E Timor.

So we have not heard the last of the E Timor problem. One day when they feel strong enough, Indonesia will want it back. They will nurse their resentment for now until one day, perhaps years from now, Australia will find itself at war over this - if it really wants to keep E Timor independent.

#31 Abby; sorry, I have to re-split the hair you've split.

the exercise of rights is usually admirable, at least in theory

In this country, you have the *right* to walk down the street shouting "white power! Long like the Ku Klux Klan! Heil Hitler!" There would be nothing admirable, or noble, about your exercising this right.

SAVE THE SENATORS!

Register here to take up time slots from the antiwar protest.

to #38

Moveon.org is the biggest pile of bullsh*t I have ever seen. The whole notion of flooding the president and our congress and senate with phone calls and faxes is ridiculous. What if something very bad happened today??? How would anything get to the important people on time.

I mean really, think about it for a second. If we flooded the White House with faxes all day, our national security could be compremised.

This just goes to show you that the VENOMIOUS LEFT does not care about the safety of America. They are sick. They are trapped within their own twisted mind-set.

I try...I try and I try to understand the liberal stand point. Idiots...these people think with emotion instead of LOGIC. PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED WITH LOGIC AND NOT EMOTION.

Get it through your thick F*ckin' heads!!!

Andrew B

Its like that movie "Dead Man Walking." The condemned man would never have repented had his execution not been looming.

[Link: punditree.blogspot.com...]

Moveon.org is a typical example of the 'we are much more important than you' school of lefty idiocy. Their right to moan is according to them more important than other people's right to contact their representatives.

I wonder if you can sue or get an injunction?

An interesting video with a former Iraqi citizen, and a Gulf War veteran:

[Link: 209.98.40.76...]

The Gulf War veteran befriended an Iraqi soldier during the Gulf War, and got him into the United States on the grounds of political asylum. The Iraqi soldier had a lovely wife and 5-year-old daughter back in Iraq, and when Saddam's secret police found out this man had left Iraq, they made his wife and daughter pay dearly...
 

#42:

This kind of thing could be why there are fewer critics of dictatorships by refugees than we'd expect.

#26 Bernard Morey

>>Ramos-Horta is the darling of the Left in Australia, so either these remarks will piss them right off, or they will ignore them completely.

Shows you know nothing about the Left in Australia. Tim Blair, like Charles here, snips out the bit where he talks about extending the inspections.

Ramos-Horta's position is closer to France and Germany than the U.S.A., I'm afraid. I don't have a problem with him taking this position -- it was obviously traumatic for him to undergo the deaths of family and friends while the USA and Australia did nothing -- even encouraged -the terrible slaughter of the East Timorese. He speaks as a person of compassion, not as a mindless warblogger.

Speaking of Indonesia, I'd like to see some of you LGF people make some noise about Kompassus and General Wiranto once and a while...how about the liberation of West Papua, anyone? Which LGF'er will blow the horn of war first?